Scott Coker - The Fight Game

Full transcript: Scott Coker on London Real

4:50 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Scott Coker, the president of Bellator MMA, the global mixed martial arts organization owned by Viacom. Before that, you were the founder and former CEO of the MMA promotion Strikeforce, which was sold to the UFC in 2011 and cultivated great fighters like Daniel Cormier, Ronda Rousey, and Robbie Lawler. You are here in London to promote Bellator 158, which takes place at the O2 Arena tomorrow, July 16th and features our London Real guest, Michael Venom-Page, Alex Reed.

5:21 Scott, welcome to London Real. Thank you so much. Pleasure having you here. I’m always curious, when you fly into Heathrow and you’re thinking about London when you’re in the States, you know, what are the kind of things that come to mind? Is it fighting?

5:34 Is it culture? I’m always wondering what people think of us over here. You know, I’ll tell you, it’s a city that I love. And I love the people. I love the food.

5:43 I love the shopping. And it just has such culture here, compared to, you know, United States, where, you know, the city I live in, it’s actually a town. It’s a city town, but it has about a million people. It’s in San Jose, which is southern San Francisco and Silicon Valley, you know. But it’s only been there for 80 years.

6:04 It’s an 80-year-old city, if you think about that, or 100-year-old. That’s it. Before that, it was all orchards and all farmland. And so, you know, to come to the UK or London and see, you know, all the history here, it’s just quite amazing. And there are real fight fans here.

6:20 I’m wondering how the crowd feels. I was watching a press conference yesterday. Great press conference, by the way. You start pulling up Lennox Lewis and Tito Ortiz and, you know, and Hoist Gracie on stage. And, yeah, and giving every fighter a chance to talk.

6:34 It felt great. Good energy. You know, I’ll tell you, I think it’s important that everybody understand the history of the sport, you know, and that, really, it was Hoist Gracie’s family that created the ideology of this fighting event. And I remember talking to Hoist. He said, the very first cage that they designed was like a Colosseum, right?

6:55 Had like a Colosseum feel to it, a book, more Roman. And it was like going into the gladiator pits to fight. And that’s kind of what the very first, you know, take of the UFC was, or MMA was. And then eventually evolved into the cage that you see today. But that represents the Colosseum in Rome.

7:13 So, you know, there’s a lot of history. And Hoist says to me, he says, you know, this is what I’d like to say, is my father created MMA. That’s how he feels. My father created this sport. Our family created this sport, you know.

7:28 But it’s a sport. And no one can take that away from us, you know. And my father’s vision really was, let’s see who the best fighter is. You know, his father fought the Japanese Kamora. Yeah, in the 50s, right?

7:43 Right. I saw the t-shirt. I said, what is this? They go, oh, this is my father. This is, you know, I forgot the first name, but Kamora’s his last name.

7:50 And they named the Kamora after this guy. And I was like, wow. I go, what happened? He goes, oh, my father beat him. So I think he might have lost.

7:57 Yeah, I think he lost. He lost a fight. They fought like a concrete floor somewhere. Let’s get it on, you know. But he was like, I want people to know that the Gracie family created this.

8:09 And it’s become this phenomenon worldwide. But the foundation is martial arts. And that’s really important to him. And so, you know, we invited him to come out and say a few words. And last time he was here, he said exactly what I was saying was, hey, my father’s vision was, let’s see who the best fighter is.

8:26 And there’s nothing wrong with competing to find out who the best fighter is. Yeah. And for people that don’t know, Hoist Gracie fought at UFC 1, an organization which was created by Horian Gracie. And Hoist was the guy that tapped everyone out in those first few UFCs to everyone’s amazing. And so that later was bought by the Fertitta brothers and became the organization we know.

8:49 But having him on stage is like a way you’re kind of paying respects to the lineage of the sport. Right? And you know what? Tito Ortiz is a guy, the Huntington Beach bad boy. We brought him because I said, Tito, I think the fans want to see you and meet you and shake your hands and know that you’re a real guy.

9:06 And he’s a nice kid. And he’s done so much for the sport. I think to this day, he’s still the highest pay-per-view grossing fighter in the history of MMA. Yeah. And he walks down the street.

9:21 Everybody knows who he is. Right? He’s that guy. And then we brought one of these, got introduced to a friend. And I said, let’s come down and check out Bellator.

9:29 And people don’t know, but he was a wrestler before. I didn’t know that. He was a basketball player. He was a football player. He chose boxing because he thought he’d be really good at it.

9:37 And he loved it. But he said, you know, I could have done MMA. Because I was a wrestler, too. And I could have learned how to do it. And meeting him and seeing him and see how big he is, I think he would have been a real force to deal with because that’s a real physical specimen right there.

9:52 Yeah, you had him at the weigh-ins today, right? He’s towering over some people right there. Yeah, he’s a big man. And so just think, if he was a heavyweight fighter, can box like he boxes? Can wrestle like he can wrestle?

10:03 Teach him some jiu-jitsu or anti-jiu-jitsu and how to block a leg kick? You’re in business. Yeah. So my first UFC was here in London, 2002, Royal Albert Hall. Tito might have been on that card.

10:13 I’m not sure. Frank Mir fought on that card. And that was my first introduction. I got the bug. I ended up flying to Japan to see pride fighting championships.

10:22 It was kind of 04, 05. I went to Rio de Janeiro to train. Ended up training with Busta Manchi. And I went back to Japan to watch him fight. And so I just started getting into it.

10:34 But Tito was, you know, Tito was the UFC back in those early 2000s. He was. I mean, him, Mike Dell, and Randy Couture. That’s who really built in the 90s into the early 2000s, or maybe the mid 2000s. Those were the three guys that, you know, Emmy rode their back, you know, to the next level of success until they had different fighters that kind of came out, you know, like the GSPs and, you know, Nick Diaz’s of the world and that next group of people.

11:06 But that group was really the one that really, you know, carried a lot of the burden. Yeah. So I tell people you’re in town, Scott Coker, and I’m saying, okay, his Bellator is fighting on Saturday. And, you know, some people are like, well, is that the UFC? Is that Bellator?

11:19 You must get this question all the time. And when you get it, what do you tell people? Like, we are this and they are that, or how do you explain Bellator? You know, I just say, look, MMA is a sport. You know, they’re one league, we’re another league.

11:31 And that’s that simple, you know, because really, that’s what MMA is. MMA is, it’s not, it’s, MA is a three letter word, right? But it’s not, it’s not a three letter word, if you know what I mean, it’s really the sport. So the sport is mixed martial arts. And if you, when I think back in martial arts, when I was training in the late 70s and 80s, you know, it truly was in San Francisco, which is a big help for martial arts.

12:01 The karate guy, the kung fu guy, the taekwondo guy, the judo guy, they all like, no one liked each other. And really, I am not kidding. People think it was a joke, but my style is better than your style. That was really the mentality back then. It was, you know, your kung fu style is not as good as my, you know, shido kan karate style, right?

12:21 Or seido kai kan, or taekwondo, or jujitsu. And that really was a mentality of martial arts back in the 70s. And when a mate came out, and Hoist’s father, he wanted to prove that jujitsu was the style. And as the years progressed, the wrestlers came out, like we had talked about earlier, you had the Mark Colmans and the Kurz, guys that could just take you down and just smash you, you know? And did they have the skill that, maybe the Gracie’s didn’t know, but they had the power and the, you know, wrestling is something that I did as a kid, you know, 9th grade, 10th grade, and it was probably the hardest workout I’ve ever been through.

13:01 11th grade, I had my first season of wrestling. So you know, it’s the hardest workout. And these guys are so disciplined and just to persevere and grind it out. And so they were starting to win. And then the jujitsu guys go, I better learn how to wrestle, right?

13:17 And then comes along, a guy named Morrie Smith, who’s already a world champion kickboxer. And they’re like, I’m Morrie Smith, right? But he learned how to avoid the takedown. And he learned how to get back up from being takedown. And then he started knocking people out with kicks the leg, kicks the head.

13:34 And it made people start saying, hey, I better do jujitsu, I better wrestle, and I better do stand up. And that hasn’t become the complete fighter that it is today. And you know, a fighter like GSP is somebody I think of, when I think that’s the guy that came out of this. And the next generation are going to be fighters that do all the disciplines together and really is the future of martial arts. Right, when we saw GSP wrestle better than wrestlers, I think it was just Kostchek where he was taking him down at will.

14:05 And this is a guy who started off, you know, a background like yours, more of, you know, karate back. Right. And all of a sudden, he’s doing these things. We’re like, wow. And he’s athletic and bringing that to the game.

14:15 Yeah, what do you think it’s going now? You know, now we see fascinating strikers like MVP, Conor McGregor talking about movement. You know, Jose Aldo just got his interim belt back. I think he stood up the whole five rounds. What do you think we’re going?

14:27 You know, I’ll tell you, it’s heading in the right direction because martial arts was so fragmented back then, back in the 60s and 70s and 80s, that this really kind of put them all together, you know, and now the Jiu Jitsu school says, yeah, I got to learn how to tie box and I better go learn how to strike. And the striker’s saying, I got to go learn Jiu Jitsu. And everybody’s cross training now. There’s not a gym in this country that’s a top gym or in America too as well.

14:56 There’s not a top gym in the planet that is producing top talent that doesn’t have a Jiu Jitsu instructor that’s teaching these guys and has a great striker, a great boxing coach, a great tie boxing coach, a great wrestling coach. And, you know, when you take it back to, for me, it’s like the opening scene in Another Dragon, right? Open finger boxing gloves, the little shorts, the shin guards, right? Punching, kicking, throwing, grappling, submission. You know, Bruce was way ahead of the game.

15:27 And so to me, that’s where it’s headed. It’s heading in the right direction. And it’s something where I feel like it’s past the segregation of the 60s and 70s and 80s. And it’s a more complete fighting system. It really has become a very effective fighting system where now it’s like, if you’re a great Jiu Jitsu student or practitioner, and the other guy’s a great Jiu Jitsu practitioner, and you’re a great wrestler, he’s a great wrestler, then you know what?

15:58 It’s gonna come down to the striking. Who’s the better striker? So they know, these guys know, I talk to them all the time. We gotta have a complete game. And that’s what’s happening today.

16:08 So it’s a good thing. Take me back 10 years, March 10th, 2006, H.P. Pavilion. You’re looking over 18,265 fans. Shamrock, Gracie, your first promotion in the strike force, is that right?

16:22 What’s happening in your brain, in your body, and what led up to that? And what did that night mean for you and for the whole sport, really? Yeah, you know what? It was an interesting time because that was still when MA was kind of still like, ah, is this gonna really be around? And no one really knew.

16:41 It was kind of like, you know, let’s give it a try. Because I was in the kickboxing business before that, since 85 in San Jose. And California called me up, the state athletic commission who governs our sport in California calls me up and says, we’re gonna give licensing applications out for mixed martial arts. And this is probably four months prior to that. And I said, okay, well, you have to give me the first show.

17:10 And they go, why? You know, because I’ve been a promoter here for 20 years. No one else has had a promoter’s license in this state, the state of California, as long as I have had. So you have to give me the first show. And he said, okay, we’ll give you the first show.

17:25 So he set the date. And then I go, who’s gonna fight? You know, and I was, I had promoted all of Javier Mendez from AK. Yeah. All his kickboxing fights and he and I have been friends since we were like 20 years old and I had no crazy bomb, Frank Shamrock, you know, that whole group that was trained in AK.

17:43 So we were all friends. And so I asked Javier, what do you think? Who should fight? He goes, well, you should get Frank Shamrock to fight. So Frank and I were friends.

17:50 So I met him at a Starbucks. I said, hey, Frank, I got the first license. I want you to be the guy. You know, we should do this. Frank had fun in a while, right?

17:59 He had not fun in a while. Yeah. And so, you know, he’s okay. And then, so who’s the opponent? You know, and I’ll be honest, I did not know MMA as well as I do today, right?

18:10 Back then, I was more of a kickboxing and Javier said, go ask Cesar Gracie to fight, you know? So we asked Cesar. He said, yeah. And I’m thinking my head, great. I have a Shamrock versus Gracie promotion, right?

18:20 And it was the first show. And I’ll never forget it because keep in mind, at that time in the United States, the mentality was, oh, you know, I may still a little bit taboo. And it wasn’t on Showtime. It wasn’t on CBS. It wasn’t on Fox.

18:35 It wasn’t on, you know, Spike TV. It’s on Spike. It was on Spike, sorry. Was it on Spike at that point? It was on Spike.

18:40 It had just started Ultimate Fighter. Okay, right. But it wasn’t some, you know, like a built-up league for many years. It had just started. And so we had a press conference and the questions that were coming at me were, well, you know, do you feel bad?

18:55 Like this is human cockfighting and you’re contributing to, you know, these people going into a cage and they’re, you know, it’s like a car wreck and, you know, you should be a member of this community and I’m like, whoa, whoa, where is this coming from? And really had to bring it down. I said, look, this is a martial arts contest. These guys are skilled martial artists and the choking, the submission, all the stuff that people, oh, if you’ve never seen it before, you know, it can be uncomfortable for you, right?

19:26 I said, all those techniques that you’re talking about are completely legal in Olympic Judo, right? You could arm bar. You could choke, you know, you could do all those techniques in Olympic Judo. So, oh, we didn’t know that. Marketing problem.

19:40 Boxing, you can do in Olympics. Kickboxing, you can do all over the world. Accept it everywhere. I go, and wrestling. Wrestling’s in the Olympics, right?

19:48 You put that together, that’s what you’re going to see, you know? And so, it was a matter of education and educating the public and really getting it out there. But at first, the media was like, oh, this is terrible and this is, you know, and, you know, I remember that night or that day going into the fight because we had only originally set up for like 7,000, 8,000 people. Because I said, Frank. I said, no, Frank.

20:09 And I go, Frank, how many people do you think we’re going to come? I have maybe 6,000, 7,000. So, we set up for 7,000. I had no idea. And then we priced it for that.

20:17 And then I started growing and started growing and we’re opening up sections of the building as we go. And then the day of the fight, I get a call from the arena. They said, you’re sold out, you know? And I said, what do you mean I’m sold out? They go, you’re sold out.

20:30 And I go, well, just open another section. They said, no, no, you’re like, we sold the whole thing, you know, $18,265. And I think the paid attendance was like $17,800 or something, which still holds the United States record for paid attendance in our country. Canada beat it with the big one at the big stadium. But as far as in the United States, we still hold the record for paid.

20:55 And so, you walk into the stadium and there’s 18,000 people there. You’re just like, wow. Your first promotion. First MMA show. That’s crazy.

21:04 I remember hearing those numbers and I was like, whoa, what’s going on here? Because that’s not 5,000 people. That’s not 6,000 people. That’s a movement. So, you’re on the map at this point.

21:15 Yeah, yes, for MMA. Right. Now, for the next five years, you’re competing with the UFC. But at the same time, you’re breeding these stars that most people don’t realize will create an in strike force. You know, guys like the current light heavyweight champion Cormier, Luke Rockhold, Rousey.

21:32 People don’t realize Ron Rousey came from there. Verdume, right? A lot of these names. Yeah, we had a heavyweight tournament that I’m really proud of. Something I’ll never forget.

21:41 And it was the strike force World Grand Prix heavyweight tournament. And this was in 2010. Had Fedor Milianenko, Alistair O’Ream, Fabrizio Verdume. We had Josh Barnett, Andre Alaski. Who else is in there?

22:00 A couple of the guys. But I mean, Brett Rodgers. Brett Rodgers. I mean, we had an amazing lineup. And something I was really proud of because I think when I look back at the Pride days, you know, they had all those great tournaments.

22:12 I think this was right up there with them. Yeah. No, it was epic. Oh, it was Bigfoot Silva. Yeah, Bigfoot, of course.

22:17 He beat Fedor in the very first fight. He did, didn’t he? Yeah. High points and low points in that organization. First of all, that heavyweight tournament, Fedor goes down.

22:27 Well, you completely shocked. I mean, I grew up with Fedor in Pride. I mean, it was what? 10 years undefeated? Something crazy like that.

22:33 You know, it’s funny because Fedor and I are friends and we, you know, we talk about, you know. Was it like being friends with Fedor? The conversations are very, very high split. Like, because I don’t speak Russian, he doesn’t speak good English. So there’s a lot of eating going on, a lot of drinking going on, and we’re just hanging out.

22:52 But it’s, he’s a nice guy. He’s a really, really gentle soul. Spiritual guys. Really gentle soul. And one time to fight, you know, like he could turn it on like nobody’s business back when he was the king, you know.

23:05 And, but the fight with Bigfoot Silva, you know, I thought that, you know, that he could do it, you know. But I mean, he came into, he came into Strike Force and he fought Bette Rogers and that was a great win for him. And then, you know, then he went to a, you know, to kind of a losing streak, right?

23:28 I think one was for Big Silver Doom, which I’ll never forget that fight because that’s the first time he lost. Yeah. I’m sitting in San Jose. We probably had 14, 15,000 people there. And, you know, it’s funny because Varese of Verdun is negotiating with us the night before.

23:44 I need to change this deal. You know, I need to change this deal. Like you need to, you know, we need, you need to help me here because I’m fighting Fedor. And, you know, because, and what if I lose? You know, you need to help me out.

23:55 I think in his mind, he was already planning. Retirement. Yeah, like I got to go to the next step of my career. And, and he’s such a great guy too. Varese was just, you know, really, really quality individual.

24:06 But he was, he was already thinking like, what if I lose to Fedor? Then, you know, what’s going to happen? You know, you’re going to cut me. Am I going to? And I said, don’t worry.

24:13 Just sorry. You know, and then he wins and I’m not kidding. People were standing up. I’ll never forget. I looked over all the M1 guys, you know, that were managing Fedor.

24:20 And they just looked like they lost their puppy, you know, and I looking around. Everybody’s just shocked. Like, what just happened? You know, like, this is, this is not supposed to happen. Yeah, it’s not supposed to happen.

24:30 And is it promoted? Does that make your heart sink a little bit? Of course. Yeah, because, you know, with Fedor, he was, you know, a guy that we were paying a lot of money to at the time and, and he had a lot of high hopes for the future with him at that point. But I do understand that fighting is fighting and anything can happen.

24:49 So, you know, he, Fedor, ran to a little bit of a, you know, a streak there with us. And then, you know, he’s, you know, then eventually he moved on and went back to Russia to fight. And then he just fought with one of, I’m sorry, some legends or something. Yeah, yeah, some legends. So he fought recently and, you know, but having him out here, I love it because the fans just, you know, like people just walking, that’s Fedor, you know, I mean, just on the street.

25:16 Just like walking around, you know, you know, London people are like, there’s Fedor. So people know who he is. You know, he’s still, he’s still a brand name. And I think that, I think that, you know, he deserves all the respect, all the accolades, because he’s given so much to MMA. And if you look back, and you know martial arts, it’s like if you look back at the history of the sport, at one time he was unbeatable.

25:41 He was the king. No, no. When Lennox Lewis saw him, he said, I got to shake your hand. You are the, you know, he just went off on Fedor because Fedor was like, who is this guy? I go, that’s Lennox Lewis.

25:53 He’s a very famous boxer from, you know, heavyweight champion, beat Mike Tyson. He goes, oh, beat Mike Tyson. And so, but he didn’t even know who Lennox Lewis was. But Lennox was like, you’re the man in MMA because, you know, he remembers old fights back in the day. And he was a killer back then.

26:08 What were the low points of Strike Force? Was it the Diaz fight in the cage? Was that a low point? Was that just a meat event? You know what I’ll tell you?

26:17 That was really an unfortunate situation. And I’ll never forget it. And Mayhem Miller goes into the cage. Right. And I would left to go to the press conference because if I was over, I’m going to go to the press conference.

26:29 Okay. So I’m walking through the alleys of the arena. I didn’t see it. And this is live on CBS. Right.

26:35 So people don’t know it was one of the Diaz versus fighting or one of their guys was fighting. I think it was. Jake Shields. Yeah. Jake Shields.

26:41 And so, Dan Henderson. Right. Dan Henderson. Shields had won. Shields had fought.

26:46 Shields won. Won. And he had fought Mayhem Miller in the past. Right. So Mayhem goes, let’s go do it again.

26:51 And this is really Jake Shields’ time where he gets the mic and this is his time. This isn’t. So Mayhem’s stealing his thunder. Right. This is before Mayhem got super crazy in his life.

27:02 He was already crazy. He was already crazy. But then he took it to a whole other level. But he was manageable crazy. So he goes in there and I want to look at the tape.

27:12 I’m like, you have Nate Diaz and Gilbert Melendez there. And you didn’t think anything was going to happen? Are you serious? That’s what I told him that night. I said, are you kidding me?

27:24 You got the Diaz brothers and Gilbert along with Jake and their whole crew and you don’t think anything was going to happen? Because, well, I think they’re going to jump me. You know, that’s what he response was. I said, I don’t want to talk to you right now. Right.

27:37 So we’re live on television. CBS, right? And that was a big coup as well. You’re on CBS. That’s big.

27:42 And then it’s after the fight. Kicks off in the cage. Miller. We don’t know what happened. Looks like Nick got a shot in.

27:47 But Gilbert and everyone jumps on everybody. And it’s quite a little girl there. Yeah. Is there any good side to that media event, Scott? Boy, that’s a tough one.

27:57 If you look at the social impressions, I’m sure they’re in the millions. But that’s not how you want your brand represented. I think Strikeforce was doing such a good job and doing some great fights. I mean, think of the fights that we put together. You know, there was no female division in the sport outside of Strikeforce, right?

28:15 Gina Carano fighting Cyborg was the first female headliner I think ever. We had 13,000, 14,000 people in the stadium. I think it did like a million three on Showtime, which they’re in a 25 million universe. So it’s a big number for them. One of the highest.

28:37 It was the highest rated show in MMA on Showtime until Kimbo came and who it came after. Fadore came when we showed up after. Right. But they were, you know, and then we did Fadore fighting Maria Silver Doom. Kong Lee fighting Feng Shamrock was probably the loudest I’ve ever been in a stadium.

29:04 Right. Because they love Kong and San Francisco, right? Yeah, it’s half and half. It was like the hometown rivalry, you know, with two pretty big names and Shamrock still a big deal. Kong, very big deal in the San Jose area.

29:17 And, you know, we had, I think 15, 16,000 people. And I think we’re the only company at the time to do over a million dollar gates outside the UFC. So these are big stadium fights with big major league television. You know, great sponsorship with Rockstar and EA Sports at the time. And, you know, so we had this emerging business that was really starting to take off.

29:40 2011 bought by the UFC. How does that moment feel for you?

29:47 Well, I think that most people, you know, when they say, Oh, I sold my business. They’re hey, congratulations. High five, high five, right? For me, it was, you know, I took an investment partner in to buy Pro Elite. Pro Elite was spent 60 million dollars, starting to go down, going into bankruptcy.

30:08 So I go, okay, I got to go buy Pro Elite because there was a lot of fighter contracts in there. I wanted they had the CBS Showtime deal. So this is before I got on major television like that. So I took a partner in the San Jose, the guys that own the San Jose arena had a financial group called Silicon Valley Sports Entertainment. And for two years that we’re doing business to say, Hey, would, you know, would you consider an equity stake and us buying in?

30:36 I’m like, No, I don’t really need a partner. Well, now I needed a partner. So that’s okay. You guys buy in. We’ll go buy Pro Elite, which we did.

30:44 That’s how we got the CBS and Showtime deal. That’s how we got some of the fighter contracts. And then we took off from there. So now you have a partner, right? And so when when I think about, you know, bittersweet moment, it was the sale of the company because there’s a lot of other circumstances which would take much longer to explain and get into.

31:05 But at the end of the day, it was you have a partner that said, Hey, this is a great deal. It’s not just your call is what you’re saying. That’s right. This is a great deal. And, you know, either two things were going to happen.

31:16 One, I was going to end up with a disgruntled partner, right? Or I was going to have to go find another partner to buy them out. But the deal was going down so fast, right? I had to make a decision. And so I said, Okay, it’s time to let it go because I didn’t want to end up with a partner that was going to be disgruntled because it wouldn’t have worked.

31:35 You know, I would have been in a bad marriage, you know, and so but it wasn’t. Let me tell you, it was not a time of happiness for me when when you have to sell. Basically, it’s like selling your kit, because you put so much of your heart and soul into it. So it wasn’t that moment for me. Yeah.

31:51 And you live that business. You’re known as the guy that all the fighters want to work for. You know, I mean, everyone knows that in the inside of the industry. And so when you took over Bellator, like all the fighters came out and we’re like, we can’t wait to start working with Scott. And so, you know, you have that martial art spirit about you, I think.

32:10 So I can see how walking away from those relationships. I even see how you talk about Fedor and all these people. I mean, this was personal for you, right? Yeah, I mean, it’s, they’re becoming like your family, you know, and, you know, we don’t have five, six hundred fighters in a contract. We have 150.

32:28 And the top guys, most of them, I have good relations with. And I try to, you know, and reach out and talk to them and really stay connected. Because for me, this is not just about fighting and prize money and promotion, right? To me, this is part of my martial arts journey, you know, as I grew up through the martial art school and learning making a decision when I was 16 years old, I wrote a mission statement. And the mission statement was, I’m going to make a contribution to martial arts, you know, for the rest of my life.

33:04 And this is what I’m going to do. And my mom, you know, she was very much, no, no, no, no, no. You’re not going to be a karate mom. You know, that’s not going to happen. You’re going to go to school like your brother and you’re going to be a doctor or a lawyer or, you know.

33:20 And my brother didn’t make it easy because he’s a guy that was, my older brother, he’s had a master’s degree at USC at 22, Fulbright Music Scholar, you know, brilliant guy. And became a, I had a PhD, became a professor at UCLA. And eventually, when it got out of music, became a lawyer. Now he’s running a hedge fund, I mean, a film fund out of LA. So that was, you know, like one path, a traditional path.

33:51 I went for the, what I really love to do and really focus on the love of martial arts. And so to me, that’s really the direction I had. I said, no, I’m going to be fine. I’m going to be a martial arts teacher. I want to go teach martial arts.

34:07 I want to spread the word of martial arts because, you know, like you had mentioned something to me earlier. And I don’t hear this very often. Because you’re a great fighter, doesn’t mean you’re a martial artist. Don’t mix the two up. One teaches great life skills of character and respect, and dollar spare, perseverance.

34:23 Those are life skills that, you know, I used to teach to children that were five, six, seven, eight, ten, twelve, you know, like, there was one of the joys of my life because you see your education impacting those kids, right? And, you know, so I went through the point where I had some schools and then I started this fight business when I was 21 years old. Then I bought another school and I had two schools. I was running this back and forth. Then I accepted a contractor gig with K1 to help them run the fights in Vegas.

34:55 And so, I mean, my whole life has just been about the contribution to martial arts. So to me, this is the same thing as, is, yes, it’s a professional price fight business. But there’s something behind it for me that’s much deeper and much more spiritual than just being in a fight, you know, a fight business. So it’s not just about the bucks for you. It’s not just about the money, you know.

35:17 Now, your counterpart in this entire fascinating drama is Dana White at the UFC, who is probably more on the dollar side of the spectrum. Now, look, Dana has made amazing contributions, done incredible things, but he’s a very different personality than you. He has different relationships with the fighters than you do. And the business was just sold a couple weeks ago $4 billion price tag. What do you make of all that?

35:43 I mean, you’ve been in the business for a long time. You’ve sold your organization. You’ve merged with other organizations. What’s the first thoughts that come to your mind when you first heard about the deal and now a week later you’ve had time to digest it? What does it make you think?

35:57 Well, it’s a big number, right? It’s the largest sale of a sports franchise in the history of the world in sports. I mean, there hasn’t been the New York Yankees having a soul for this kind of money, or the LA Lakers couldn’t sell for that kind of money. But, you know, from a financial standpoint, I look at what are the basketball teams worth after the Clippers got bought for $2 billion by the gentleman from Microsoft, right? All the team’s values went up.

36:33 So, from a financial standpoint, from Viacom, who owns Bellator, they could look at it and say, well, our valuation just went up. And I told them, I said, you know what, guys, you should be celebrating along with Lorenzo and popping that champagne along with them because Bellator value just went up big time because now you have the respectability and the credibility of being in a sport and having the investment community saying, you know what, this is something that could be valuable and built up to be a multi-billion dollar business. And that says a lot that they prove that this is possible.

37:07 And they set the benchmark. And they worked hard. I mean, I’ve saw from the very beginning when he first came in, I’m talking about Lorenzo and, you know, it was Dana’s vision, but Lorenzo was the one that, you know, financed it. And I saw him come in. I was in Japan for K-1, stayed after.

37:23 And Mr. Ishii, who owned K-1 at the time, and myself and Frank Shamrock and Javier Mendez were going to start an MA league. So I stayed. And he says, hey, the UFC’s in town, right? I said, oh, let’s go.

37:35 Because I’m a fan. I mean, you know, it’s not like I have to. I can’t, if I watch boxing, I can’t watch face martial arts. If I watch kickboxing, I can’t watch, you know, I watch it all. I watch pride.

37:43 I watch, you know, I was like that junky guy that loved everything. And so he’s at this, and was at a little hall with 1,500 people there, right? It was a little nightclub, actually. It’s like UFC in Japan. It was UFC in Japan.

37:56 Right, okay. So it was UFC in Japan, the second one. Second one, okay. And Tito T’s fought. Vanalee Silva fought.

38:04 I don’t know if I got that. Basu Mayafad, Randy Couture fought. I mean, it’s like all the big names, right? And really, it’s like 1,500 people. And it was a tiny little show.

38:13 This was probably 2000, maybe 2001. And in walks Lorenzo Fertitta. And how I knew him was, hey, he sits on the athletic commission board in Nevada. So I knew he was, you know, what’s he doing here? And, you know, and I didn’t know Dana at all.

38:29 So they walked in, and then there’s no talk. Oh, they’re going to buy the UFC. They’re going to buy the UFC. And showed up, so they buy the UFC. And that was a pivot point, because honestly, MMA was going to die at that point.

38:41 It could have died. People that love martial arts and love MMA should really thank Lorenzo for his contribution. Because he put his money where his mouth is and invested in the sport. And really saved it from the demise where, you know, Senator McCain was saying, this is human car fighting. Time Warner, all the cable networks, the cable systems were saying, we’re not airing MMA anymore.

39:08 Because you guys are billing it as human car fighting. And there’s no weight classes. There’s no rules. The advertising has no whole bar, right? And so they’re marketing it like it was, you know, just some street fight, you know, that people get hurt in.

39:22 And then that happened. So that was one of the points that saved MMA. Yeah. Do you think if Lorenzo hadn’t stepped in then, that you and I wouldn’t even be talking about MMA? We wouldn’t even be talking about MMA.

39:31 Really? I really believe that. That’s fascinating. Yeah. The sport wouldn’t exist.

39:34 It would not exist today. And we should be thankful for that. Because honestly, you know, they sold for four billion, but they created a multi-billions of dollars of industry. Because what did it do to all the MMA schools around the country? What did it do to all the judicial schools around the country?

39:51 Right. Think about that. It’s probably created 20, 30, 40, 100 billion dollars worth of value. Easily. Easily.

39:57 So, you know, they bring the awareness. And the other point was, the sport almost died was when, you know, they’re trying to get a TV deal. And Kevin Kay from Spike TV, you know, who still runs Spike TV today and loves MMA. I mean, this guy loves it. I mean, he’s emailing me at two in the morning.

40:17 Did you see this article on Zosa? I’m like, no, I’m about to go to sleep. I’ll get it tomorrow. But in a serious note, it was he watches all the fights and he loves it. And, you know, he finally said, OK, we’ll give you a shot to get on Spike TV.

40:33 And so that never happened. If Kevin didn’t give them the shot, I think that it could have been game over at that time because they had hemorrhaged so much money. So those are the two points, I think, and they could have died. And luckily, it didn’t, because look at it today. Now it’s thriving.

40:49 Now you have big stars, feeling big arenas. You know, this has been a record year for Bellator for his ratings as far as paid life attendance. International distribution sponsorship, the blue chip sponsors we have today with light beer from Miller, Dave and Buster’s Monster Energy Drink. I mean, you know, it’s a solid business. So I don’t think all that happens without those two moments working out the way that it did.

41:13 Which was all about really putting a lot of cash on the table, you know, whether it was the initial investment of a few million or the later 50 or 60 million putting it in and really believing it and making both of those two little inflection points happen, which they could have been missed. That’s right. And if one of those missed, game over. I really, really. For everyone.

41:32 Game over. That’s fascinating. What’s your read on Dana White? You’ve known him for a long time. You worked with him for three years at the UFC.

41:38 You worked, you competed against him at Strikeforce. Yeah, he was fighting against you guys. And now you compete with him now. I mean, overall, you know him better than I will and probably anyone else. What’s your read?

41:51 You know, I look at it differently. And I’ve always said this because what he’s doing and what we’re doing, we’re trying to help the same industry, right? We’re help lifting the industry. And so, yeah, they’re doing a major part. We’re doing our part and collectively we’re growing the value of MMA and we’re growing MMA to the next level.

42:14 But, you know, it’s like when we had Strikeforce, he was, oh, Strikeforce, you guys, you know. But before that, he was like, Strikeforce is the place to be and, you know, this is a great organization. This is how you run things. And then he started coming after us after we signed Fedor, you know. So I go, okay, I understand.

42:30 This is like a personal thing because they want to sign Fedor and then we did it. And then he started coming after us. But when I knew, like, he’s, it’s like, I don’t want to say it’s, you know, the cameras are rolling, but I would see him after the thinking. He goes, hey, you know, nothing personal, you know, everything’s fine. You know, we’re all good.

42:49 I said, I said, we’re good. You know, it’s just business. It’s just, it is what it is. You have to go do what you have to do. And I’m just like, hey, thanks for tuning in.

42:58 Thanks for watching, you know. But it was never anything personal for me. Like, oh, I’m going to be mad at Dana. I mean, listen, what they’ve done for the sport, you know, has been monumental. And what he’s going to continue to do for the sport is going to be, you know, fantastic because he loves what he’s doing, I believe.

43:20 And, you know, when you love something, it’s not about the cars or the house or, you know, you just really, you’re passionate about it. And he’s passionate about it. But, you know, we had like these little conversations in the hallways when I was at UFC. And, you know, it was just, it was just great having those little, hey, how’s your family? You know, everything good.

43:40 You know, this was, it was nothing new about fighting and martial arts. And I found out to be, you know, pretty nice guy, really. You know, I guess what I’m saying is a character that I saw out on TV was not the guy that I got to know inside the company, you know. But he does have a different relationship with the fighters than you do. It’s a different organization, but he always has.

44:02 And I believe he is passionate about fighting, but I wouldn’t know if he’s passionate about martial arts the same way you are. And it’s just, it’s slightly different with Dana, I believe. Right. And, you know, I can’t really respond to that because, you know, I don’t really know how he interacts with those guys. I hear a lot of things, but, you know, I haven’t really seen it.

44:17 So it’s hard for me to comment on, you know, what his relationship is like. And, you know, I do know that they have a pretty big roster. And to maintain that roster is probably a lot of work. And there’s a certain bandwidth that you have every day. And I’m sure that, you know, he hangs out with the fighters he likes and once he does it, he doesn’t.

44:37 So, you know, it just is what it is. What changes from here on out? You know, WME has bought this company. Dana stays on. Sounds like he’s got a profit sharing deal.

44:46 Rumors is nine percent. He gets other revenues similar to his nine percent equity stake he had in the company, which sounds like it keeps him happy, keeps him in there. It’d be interesting to see if he has the control that he did or the control we perceive that he did. What do you think happens in the next couple of years with the UFC? How do we feel it’s different?

45:04 Well, you know, it’s going to be interesting because, you know, Lorenzo Fertitta is, you know, a very sharp business guy and really grew the international side of this business, you know, to be a big piece of business for the company. And loved, you know, loved this company, loved martial arts. So I think you take a guy like that out. I think that you better fill somebody back in that has the same skill set, you know, to run it. And that’s going to be key is who is that guy?

45:35 Is it going to be Dana stepping in as, you know, CEO, President? I don’t know. But, you know, that’s going to be a void that I think is going to have to take a real sharp guy to step in there and really take the reins of that company and take it to the next level. Right. So rumor had it, you were on a golf course when you got the call, I think 2014 or maybe 15, I’m not sure, to come back and run Bellator.

46:03 Is that true? Yeah, well, you know what? It was, yeah, there was some truth to that. It’s like a half truth, but it’s a big and long story short. It was basically, I was heading to a different direction with, you know, going into martial art fight business.

46:18 It was with another company, you know, the entity. A friend of mine ran the venture fund and we’re going to go do this again because three years before that, when, you know, we decided to sell the company, you know, with the UOC for three years. You know, kind of a non-compete almost garden leaf scenario. Yeah, I mean, you know, Strikeforce had to continue to run because it has a showtime contract. So it ran for two years.

46:42 So there’s one year where I was golfing three days a week and just hanging out and not really doing much, you know. And so I was heading to a different direction and saying, you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur my whole life, right? And my friend says, you got to go meet Kevin K. Kevin K wants to have a meeting with you, right? And I said, I don’t know.

47:05 I’m not really, you know, wanting to be working like, you know, I want to build my business. You know, I don’t want to build someone else’s business. He runs Spike Television. Right. And, you know, Bycom is a big company and, you know, the first job application I ever filled out was with Bycom in my whole life.

47:26 Right. Think about that. I never filled out a job application and I already had a contract with Kevin. I had a contract with Bycom and we signed the whole thing. And then I get a call like five days later from HR.

47:39 Hey, I need you to come down and fill out this job application. And I’m like, I already have a contract. Why do you need a job? Oh, no, we have to have it on file. And then they have this whole thing that they had to do.

47:46 And I’m like, Oh man, this is going to be weird. Right. Because, you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur and that’s really my spirit has been an entrepreneurial spirit. And you don’t like working for companies. Yeah, you know, and I didn’t know because I didn’t I never worked for another company.

48:00 Right. So it was a little bit weird. And then, but I got to sit down with Kevin. Right. Just like this.

48:08 And we talked about his history with the sport, my history with the sport, you know, the television landscape, what Spike wants to do, where their goals were. And I found that our goals were very much aligned, you know, and I said, let me think about it. And I thought about it for three, four weeks. And I called the back and said, you know what? I’m going to do it.

48:32 I’m going to help you grow this thing. And I feel really good that we can kick some ass, you know, in the next three, four, five years. I think it’s going to take three years to get to the point where you want it to get and where I would like to see it get. And I’m glad I did it because the other way I wanted to go originally, it would have taken a lot longer. So this, I think, would make a good impact.

48:56 I mean, it’s been two years since I’ve been here. Two. The first six months was really restructuring everything, letting people go, you know, trying to get out of the every week fight business and then get to say, hey, we can’t, this can’t be small ball Bellator like you guys are doing. We got to start doing some stadium shows. You guys are signing some big fighters.

49:21 You got, you got to, we got to think bigger, you know, the mindset is too small. So we got to think bigger and we started implementing the tent pole shows, you know, the bigger lives, the bigger fighters, the production was bigger. Just, I mean, really, it was a page right out of the Japanese model of pride, K-1, you know, cupcake. I’ll never forget walking into the Tokyo Dome. When K-1, like 2002, 2003, I think Mark Hunt fought Jerome Abaner or somebody for the, no, he fought Ray Cephal for the, no, no, no, Jerome, I can’t, he knocked out Jerome, but I walked into the Tokyo Dome and there was literally 65,000 people there.

49:59 All watching this martial arts fight and the ring from the top looked like that big, right? But the production was so big and then the lighting and the sound, I said, you know what, this is the way to throw a show. This is the way to do it. And then Dynamite comes around in Japan and Tony Inoki skydiving from the plane and you have all, I mean, he’s just like, wow. Right, so they went big.

50:24 Big. And so, in my mind, I’m like, look, we got to go big, too. We got to step it up. And I’ve always loved the production of it, the ramp and the music and, you know, and so we started- The fire, the flames. The flames, you got to have it all.

50:39 And we started doing that and then we started signing free agents. I believe the organization should always be built from the bottom up, right, which means we’re out there signing all the next guys. We signed five Olympians from the, you know, from the Olympic trials of the U.S. team. We signed some Jiu-Jitsu champions.

51:04 So we’ve signed the next layer of guys and girls that will become, I believe, the next, you know. Right, in the next few years, that’s what become the next stars. And you got to cultivate them and you got to simmer them and you got to build them and you got to, you know, help them get to that point. And then we have a solid base right now. I mean, look at Michael Chandler.

51:22 What an amazing talent. Pitbull. You know, when I started thinking about the fighters we have, this roster is pretty, pretty solid. I mean, look at the fight with Lima and Daly. Yeah, that’s going to be an amazing fight.

51:34 Paul Daly is just impressive. MVP. Yeah. Forget it. And then we have, I’d say from the top down, you sprinkle the guys like Rampage Jackson and Tito Ortiz.

51:43 And now you have a complete roster that’s pretty robust. But really, unless you have this layer coming up, just like we did when we, we built Daniel Cormier. We built Luke Rockhold, right? We built those guys that became the champs today. They were built in our league and we, I think, we’re very good star identifiers and then star builders.

52:03 And that’s really what the next step is. So a league needs to have that part to be, to really work well. And then you have your base and you have the top down. So you hit them for the bottom up, you hit them for the top down and that’s your roster and that’s your company. Okay.

52:19 Because at the end of the day, you’re only as good as your talent, right? You need to have that talent. And this is, you know, people might think one way or the other, but I’ve seen a lot of MMA in my day. I’ve seen a lot of martial arts fighting my day. There’s guys in our league that could fight anybody in any league.

52:35 I’m telling you, people right now, because when we were doing strike force, oh, there was strike force. They’re never going to, they’ll never beat the UFC guys. Well, now they’re the UFC champs, right? Yeah. So, you know, to me, it’s the same thing here.

52:48 Oh, Bellator would, you know, Pitbull or Michael or this or MVP. They’re there. Let me tell you, I’m telling you right now, those guys could compete at the highest level, fight anybody, you know, in any league. Yeah. It’s fascinating you say that because when UFC bought strike force, everyone was really not expecting the strike force fighters to come over and perform.

53:08 And yet, time after time, they did. And you look at people now, I mean, you know, Michael Van Em Page, we’ve had him on, incredible gentleman. That’s the conversation we were having early when I first met you. I said, you know, and I said this to Michael when he was sitting in that chair. I said, Michael, there are fighters and there are martial artists.

53:24 You are a true martial artist. You know, you believe it to your bones. He has the respect. He’s got everything going for him. And then when he turns it on in the cage, it’s just the flares.

53:32 It’s hard to even comprehend. He’s telling me that he’s looking at the corner, the guy’s corner, when he’s fighting the fight. He’s seeing people in the audience of feeling their energy. I mean, Michael, I agree. I put him up against anyone in the UFC daily.

53:44 Daily is an incredible force, incredible beast. I put him up against anybody in the UFC. You have real talent there and you’ve managed to grab some key fighters from the UFC. Phil Davies, Benson Henderson. Huge fan of Benson Henderson.

53:56 I love you. Mitrione. You know, Mitrione, of course, rumors about Rory McDonald. I’ll leave that up to you. But it’s nice to see.

54:04 There’s an option for these people. So in two years, you’re happy where you are. Really happy because I thought it would take us three years to four years to get where we’re at today. And this year, the plan was, look, last year, we did the 10 pole events, started building. This year was about signing free agents and doing fights internationally.

54:24 Because when you look at when you look at Bellator owned by Viacom, we have distribution deals through Viacom International in 150 countries around the world. But we just signed a deal with Obama TV and Japan to air our fights live for the next year. So it’s a one year deal. So now we have 151 countries that were distributed worldwide. So this brand, I was in France right after the shootings last year, go to my hotel room, turn on the TV and there’s Bellator, right?

54:57 I go to Israel, come back and Tel Aviv, turn around, there’s Bellator, right? I come here, obviously I know, because Viacom owns Channel 5 and Spike UK. So you turn on Channel 5 on a certain night. I mean, Spike UK and it’ll have Bellator. But Middle East, same thing.

55:15 It’s all over the world and it’s in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia. Like it’s all over the world. And so we’ve been invited by our distribution partners in those regions to say, hey, can you come do a Bellator fight here? And the ones that make sense, we’ll go do. And one of the fights that we’re really proud of is a fight we just did in Italy in Torino.

55:38 Had 13,000 people there. Congratulations. We had the cage come from the sky. I mean, it was like unbelievable. Great production.

55:45 There haven’t been many fights in Italy, has there? No, not really. So it was really special because I felt like, you know, this is new for them, but they have a fighter. He used to fight for the UFC, his name was Saqqara. Alessio Saqqara.

55:57 I think Alessio Saqqara is his last name. But stud fighter, man. This guy is a really tough kid. And he’s from Rome. So when he walked out, it was like Elvis Presley walked out.

56:09 I swear to God, it was just phenomenal. And he won. He had a great fight with Brian Rodgers and then he eventually won. So we’re going to go back to Florence sometime this year and throw another fight. And then we’re here, you know, with the talented fighters we have in Bellator from the UK.

56:28 It’s, you know, Daley said it best. It’s, God, you got to come to the UK, man. People love to fight and drink beer. Yeah. The people love it.

56:36 There’s a fighting culture here. There’s a fighting culture here. It’s just different than in the States. Yeah, they love it. And so, you know, and I can see it now.

56:42 It’s like, you know, it’s really starting to build the momentum of the fight. I can feel it. And then we’re going to

56:52 Hungary to do a fight. And I forgot the city, but we’re going to Buenos Aires in Argentina. Before the end of the year. And we’re trying to work the deal out with Tel Aviv right now to the fight in Tel Aviv. Because that would be amazing, wouldn’t it?

57:11 That would be amazing. International is important for you. Yeah, because it supports our international partners. And that’s a big piece of our business. Okay.

57:19 So you’re happy with where you are now. Keep going. Keep pushing. Keep investing. Bigger events.

57:25 New markets. And keep building the talent all the way up and down. Yeah. There’s not going to be a free agent that’s really free. I mean, we’re not going to interfere at other league’s contracts.

57:35 But there’s not a free agent out there that we’re not going to talk to. Because it’s owned by Viacom. I mean, Viacom can do whatever they want, right? So to me, if it makes sense, we’re going to pull the trigger. And some fighters we like, some fighters we don’t like.

57:50 Just because you’re a top 10 guy doesn’t mean you’re going to outfit here. You better be entertaining top 10 fighter. Right. Because this is still an entertainment sports business. And if you’re just going to be the guy that’s trying to hug somebody on the ground and lay and pray and think that’s going to be a victory, we’re not interested in that.

58:09 We’re interested in a fighter that’s going to take some risk and really try to bring it. But let’s make it a fight. Compete. Don’t just fight to win. I mean, fight so cautiously to win because you won’t have a home here for too long.

58:26 Because that’s not what we’re looking for. We’re looking for a certain type of fighter, certain charismatic guy, style of fighting. That’s what we’re looking for. Yeah, it’s entertainment at the end of the day. Right.

58:35 And you know that. About a month ago, five weeks ago, I was very excited to have an interview here in the studio. I was looking forward to it. I was preparing for it. I was telling all my people about it.

58:46 And three days before our scheduled interview, we got the news about Kimbo Slice and may he rest in peace. And our thoughts go out to his family. I personally, it bothered me because I feel like just like today, we’re kind of capturing the essence of a person in what we do here. And it’s something that will always exist. And so grandkids, great grandkids, will always see what dad or grandpa, great grandpa, Coker was like.

59:12 But way back in 2016. And I pride ourselves that we can do that. And I never saw a great long interview with Kimbo. And I think he was very much misunderstood. And so I really regret having that chance.

59:24 Just wanted to know, and he was supposed to fight tomorrow night here in London. Wanted to know how the news hit you, what your relationship was like with Kimbo and how you’ve been able to process it. You know, a reporter asked me yesterday, you know, are you still in mourning over Kimbo? And I thought about it. I said, you know, I still am, man.

59:43 It’s like, I still can’t believe it. I feel like I just can be able to get on the phone and talk to the guy, you know? And, you know, when I first met him, really he’s kind of an intimidating guy, right? He’s like, go, you know. I’m like, whoa, who’s this, you know?

59:59 And, you know, you just hear what you see on the internet. Like he’s the guy that beats people up on the street in the backyards. And I’m like, let’s tell my son, is this legal? Like, can they really do that? Where are they fighting?

1:00:13 And then you could be fighting in a backyard like this, right? It seems like it should be illegal. Florida. Yeah, Florida, right? So, but there’s a commission and there’s, you know, like regulations.

1:00:24 You can’t, you can’t, that’s not legal. But anyway, he says, you don’t get it. He’s a star. You know, my son is the one that said, you should watch this guy. Really?

1:00:34 You should sign this guy. I go, I’m not going to Kim Bo Slice, right? This was early days on YouTube. This is really early. Somebody told me he was the first video that had a million views on YouTube.

1:00:44 He should have got shares of YouTube, honestly. They should have paid him because every kid, every kid watch YouTube to watch Kim Bo Slice. I really believe that he was the guy, the genesis of the start of the whole thing. That’s crazy. But so I’m hearing about this guy.

1:00:59 And so he signed with Pro Elite, right? And then I got to spend some time with him to see him, but not much. Any kid knew I fight to San Jose with Pro Elite. We did a co-pro. And, and it was, you know, I didn’t get to know him, but I seems like a nice guy.

1:01:16 But when we signed him a couple of years ago, I got to really sit down and really just like this talk one on one. And I didn’t realize how popular he still was. Or, you know, I just thought, yeah, I’m fine. He’s in a fight. A fight that should have happened, you know, many years ago with Shamrock didn’t happen.

1:01:35 So I go, hey, let’s promote that fight because that’s a fight that should have happened. So we go on this radio tour together and we go on, you know, all this stuff. And what I got to really learn about him is, here’s a guy that has a degree, I think, in criminal justice from the University of Miami. He was a hurricane. Wow.

1:01:54 Right? Okay. Played football in high school and was trying to play football in college. And, you know, he had this degree and he was so smart. He was, he had the street side to him, but he also had the smarts, you know, like he had the smarts.

1:02:12 And so which Kimbo are you dealing with, right? It would really depend, you know. And, but when his wife came around, honestly, I just saw like, he said, she’s the boss. She is, this is the girl who’s the boss, you know, and they would hug and kiss and the family was all around. And, and really, I felt like they let me into the family for the last two years, you know, he was part of our family.

1:02:35 And my staff, you know, including some of the guys here, got really close to him. One of our guys was a pallbearer for his funeral. Wow. Right? Wow.

1:02:44 So it wasn’t like, you know, hey, you’re just a fighter and we’re the promoter, you know. We’re a team, you know, and you’re, you’re with us and, you know, we got you, you know. So he, he was a guy that,

1:02:58 Powerful presence, you know. And what I mean by that is like, I imagine like, if, if Bruce Lee had walked through this door, you know, alive, like a 33 year old Bruce Lee walked through the door, he would have a powerful presence about him, you know, like a magnetic Elvis Presley, same thing, you know, like certain people just have that energy about them that they can walk in and just, you know, take over. And Kimbo was that guy. When Kimbo was in the room, you would know Kimbo was in the room because, well, you might have been scared of him because, you know, the guy can fight, but, but he just had that commanding presence, you know, of, of a human being.

1:03:34 And, and so we became friends and we’re going to the radio tours and he’s fighting. And, you know, we booked a fight here. Right. And about, he’s supposed to come to the press conference actually in two months ago and he missed it. Said, oh, he had pneumonia.

1:03:54 Right. And so I said, okay, well, just heal up. We still have time. Whatever, you know, you could train. Have eight week camp, 10 week camp.

1:04:04 But don’t worry about the press conference. And so the week that he passed away, you know, I was getting calls from staff members saying, they talked to him a lot and say, you know, he has, he’s going to the hospital. And I said, what’s wrong with him? And he said, he has a gallbladder issue. You know, and he has to have emergency gallbladder surgery.

1:04:28 And then you hear all this other stuff. And I’m like, my head, you know, you just never think like, you know, he would pass away. Right. Yeah. So the Monday, I get a call.

1:04:39 I said, okay, fine. I told the partners here that we’re having to promote the fights. Kimbo’s not fighting. You know, I know it’s going to be a blow. You know, we got to reboot this promotion.

1:04:49 And then we’ll make it right. We’ll bring some other fights in, but just hang loose. Let me figure it out. And then Monday, you get a call saying, yeah, I just talked to Kimbo, one of my friends. I just talked to Kimbo.

1:05:02 He said, tell those guys in London, postpone the fight for 60 days. I’m going to get on a plane. I’m going to come out there. And this is obvious, man. Don’t worry about it.

1:05:12 Like, he still wanted to fight. You know, like he, in his mind, he still wanted to fight. And then after that, I get a call saying, hey, he passed away. And I was like, what? Like, I go, are you kidding?

1:05:27 He said, no, he passed away. And all I could see was it was like the wind just went out of my body, you know, and I didn’t talk to anybody for an hour, you know, just seeing my office going, how do I, you know, process this? Because it’s tough. He was like a good friend at that point. And he was part of our family.

1:05:51 And it was really, really tough for me, I mean, because I was just a shocker, you know. It just came out of nowhere. It’s like, you know, last time I saw him, he was just healthy guy, you know, and just happy and, you know. And so, you know, it was a tough one, man. It was really, really tough.

1:06:11 And so when the reporter asked me, you know, are you in mourning over this fight? I said, you know, I still am, man. It’s I haven’t moved on. I’m still there, you know. And yeah, you’re, you know, we have fighters to take care of.

1:06:24 We have things to do. But really, it’s like that really dented my soul, you know. I was really surprised by the outpouring, you know. So many people said things, you know, the UFC as well. He wasn’t on their roster.

1:06:38 And he had a short experience with them. But I was really surprised by that. And I think everyone really realized how much they owe Kimbo, you know, for advancing the sport. Well, the fight that we had booked here was against James Thompson, which is a rematch. That thing about this, that was the highest rated fight in MA history.

1:06:57 In MA history was James Thompson against Kimbo Slice. It wasn’t Chuck Lydell or Randy or Tito or Haronda or Conor McGregor or Paul Daley or everything. It was Kimbo Slice. He got the guys that wouldn’t watch MMA and he brought them in to watch MMA. Well, so we had James Thompson in here six weeks ago and we were talking about the rematch.

1:07:20 We were talking about that fight in 08. James was talking about how his cauliflower ear burst open. How he thought the stoppage was wrong. He was probably right, you know, like all these things. And he had been waiting for that fight.

1:07:34 And actually, when we interviewed him three, four years ago here, he was still talking about Kimbo. Because for James, that was a pivotal moment in his career. Yeah. And fighters don’t get over it. Shirley Leonard said that and I interviewed one time.

1:07:47 He said the fighters that lose the big, big fights, they don’t get over it. It’s not like you can just move on. Like it’s just eating at you, you know. So I’m sure it’s been eating at James, you know, for all those years. So when he and Ken Shamrock, you know, got into a room, I could see it in Ken’s, you know, I said he wanted to fight this guy.

1:08:10 Like he had not got, he hadn’t gotten over it yet. To him, it was still an issue. Unfinished business, right? And so I think that’s what we call the fight, was unfinished business. And then, you know, Kimbo showed that he was training to be more than just a puncher, you know.

1:08:27 He got out of the, we’re gonna get choked. And, you know, he did some good basic stuff, fighting the guard, you know, fighting the choke and turning and doing his thing. And, you know, he always wanted to get better. You know, he wanted to get better. He was in a great camp with AT&T down there.

1:08:41 But, you know, when I think about it now, it’s like, man, it’s, I know he’s with us. He’ll be there on Saturday night and he’s gonna be rooting for us, man. I really feel it. I feel his presence. Yeah, yeah.

1:08:53 I guess it just shows us life is short. Take the people that you love and hold them close and it’s a lesson you get taught by things like this. Yeah, because, you know, I’ve lost both of my parents, right? But, you know, that’s expected, right? Because, you know, they get older and then they pass away and it’s hard.

1:09:10 But you understand it, you know, it’s part of life. This one was a shocker because of, I just remember him from the last moment I saw him, you know, we just had this moment and it was a great, you know, a great time. And such a full of energy, full of life, you know. And to have that just disappear, it was a shocker. Yeah.

1:09:34 Well, I think he is kind of looking over and out. I feel like you’re gonna feel his presence there tomorrow night at the O2. Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, we’re still in touch with the family and, you know, we’re gonna be in touch with the family and we have some things we’re gonna announce shortly that, you know, will show that, hey, we’re still love Kimbo and he’s gonna be part of this family for a long time. Good.

1:09:55 Do we have a moment of silence for him tomorrow or anything like that? I hope so. I’ll talk to them about that. But, you know, we should, we should, we did it at our last show, had a nice tribute in the US for him and spiked me in a nice 30-minute documentary. UFC did a tribute for him in one of their shows.

1:10:11 Dana White was on our tribute piece. Really? Wow. Yeah, he reached out to the producer and said, hey, you know, his producer said, you know, Dana said he’ll do an interview if you guys want. And I said, Kevin, you should do it.

1:10:24 You know, it’s like Kimbo is bigger than just their league or our league. You know, he’s a very special person, right? I mean, he brought, he did a lot for me, right? I mean, he had the highest ratings, you know, of any MMA fighter on this planet, including like all those guys I said, or even GSP or this guy. I mean, he’s, you know, he got people to watch.

1:10:46 He cast a bigger net, cast a bigger net than the average MMA fighter. Right. So, on that same note, talk to me about some of these fights like Kimbo Dada, like Shamrock Gracie that are considered kind of these more circus-y fights, you know? And do you think it’s important for an organization to have a few of those dotted in with everything else? You know, on that same note, we saw Brock Lesnar come back after five years and be at UFC 200.

1:11:14 Now, that’s not a circus-y show, but again, it’s a unique type of fight. Do you think you need to have those in your temple organization? You know what? I always felt like, I’ll give you a good example. When I was working in Japan, they had fights like that.

1:11:28 I mean, the first, I call them fun fights. Japan world. The first fun fight was, Bob stopped fighting Nogera, where he piled drove him. I don’t know if you remember that. Yeah.

1:11:36 It was a dynamite, I think. And he piled drove him and Bob did not know how to fight a lick at that time, right? He was, you know, he and I got close because I was working for K1. We brought him in and he was introduced to us through Sam Greco who was doing pro wrestling. Bob was going to be a pro wrestler.

1:11:53 So he was broke when he came to K1. He wanted to fight to make money. And Bob, it’s a great story because I’ll never forget it. We’re sitting on the bus and he had just fought Ernesto who was, you know, one of the killers of K1. He knocks Ernesto out, right?

1:12:10 Gets beat up for two rounds and just hits him with a punch from Mississippi, right? Boom, down goes. And then so he knocks out the champ, the K1 champ, becomes a big star in Japan. But we’re sitting on the bus going back to Narita. And on the bus is, I think Alex Rovine was, you know, probably 190 pounds.

1:12:28 You know, this skinny and just come on board and, you know, it’s, but all these great fighters on the bus and me and Bob in the front and he’s like, man, Scott, this is crazy. I said, what’s crazy, Bob? He said, these people are punching me in my face. Like, this shit hurts. I’m like, Bob, you got to start training, man, because you’re in the most dangerous fight league in the world, right?

1:12:50 I mean, for stand up striking. K1 was a killer. And I said, you better start training, Bob. You got to get better. But in his mind, he was so naive.

1:12:58 It was almost like that moment where he doesn’t even know that he doesn’t know, right? So when he fought Noguera, it was the same thing. He didn’t know how to do any of this stuff. So he goes back to pro wrestling, picks up a pile, drives the guy, basically knocks him out. And I’ll never forget Bob said, I asked him, are you okay?

1:13:15 Like, instead of finishing him, he goes, are you okay? Like, he thought he heard him. So he’s like, are you okay? And they came back and he got tired, then he got submitted by our bar. But, you know, Japan had no problem doing those fights, right?

1:13:27 So they brought in Brock Lesnar’s first fight was in dynamite in the USA, in LA. Brock Lesnar was supposed to fight Hangman Choi. Hangman Choi couldn’t get cleared for some whatever reason. So they brought in a Korean judo guy. But Brock Lesnar’s first fight was at the LA Coliseum.

1:13:46 And it was on a show called Heroes or something like that. Maybe it was in dynamite Heroes. Showtime covered it. It was on pay-per-view. But, you know, they’re the ones to identify, hey, these fights have appeal.

1:14:00 And Mr. Ishii told me, who on K1 genius, like martial arts, like what could be the future, you know, how it all works together. He was a genius promoter in Japan, right? And he said to me, he said, I said, Kanji, why do you do fights, you know, like this, this is back in 2000. Why do you do these fights?

1:14:23 Or 2001. The free show fights. Yeah. Huge. You have Ernesto Huis.

1:14:26 You have Jerome LeBaner. You have Peter Arts. You have Ruby Bojeski. You have Mark Hunt, you know, like Ray Sepp was on yours. You’ve got the real guys.

1:14:34 And he said to me, he said, you know, when we throw these fights, the hardcore fight fans will come. Right? But when I throw Aki Bono, fighting Royce Gracie, which they fought. I don’t know if you know that. I didn’t know that.

1:14:46 500 pound weight difference. And he beat him. I remember that. He beat him, right? That’s a whole other story, which I’m happy to tell you, but it was amazing.

1:14:54 But he said, then the whole country watches all the grandmothers watch, all the grandfathers watch, all the uncles. And, you know, it crosses over and into a different demographic than just the hardcore fight fan. And that’s what he’s looking for. And so, you know, I think Kimball definitely falls into that model. I think in Japan, Bob Sapp, Aki Bono, those guys fall into that model.

1:15:16 And Brock Lesnar, when he first came on, I’m sure he didn’t really, you know, know him. He was a wrestler, but, you know, he wasn’t a real MMA fighter at that time. I think he’s grown into one, but, you know, he has the ability to draw a lot of eyeballs that maybe wouldn’t come here and watch if he didn’t come and fight. Okay. So when you put on Gracie Shamrock, when they’re both pushing 50, you’re thinking the same thing.

1:15:40 Look, taking Aki Bono page out of the book. That’s right. Because if you’re thinking about it, like, look at them. And it worked. Look at the ratings.

1:15:46 Like, we do hardcore fights with, and I think that’s one of the knocks I feel like is really unfair at us is that they go, oh, you know, you’re doing all these fights. But hey, we just had Ishi, the Olympic gold medalist from Japan, fight Quinn Jackson, Pitbull fighting Chandler. We had King Mo, fighting Phil Davis. We had, who was the other fight, Benson Henderson fighting Kreshkoff. We’ve done hardcore fights for the hardcore fight fans.

1:16:18 And you know what? It averages usually for their fight around a million two, million three has been like the viewers for their fight. So I made events, all of them on those big tent poles are over a million on Spike. And then Ken versus Hoys, the 3.1 million for their fight. So the numbers don’t lie.

1:16:38 People want to see them. People want to see those guys fight, and then I think Kimbo did 3.2 and he did like 1.8 on the last one. So you’re going to bring in different eyeballs with certain people. Are there some more of those to come? Well, you know what?

1:16:52 I would say when the opportunity is right and it’s the right matchup, then I would say, yeah, we would probably do some more fun fights. Like if I had the next Bob Sapp and he could fight like Aki Bono guy, I would do it in a second. You know, to me, it’s like, why not? One thing Mr. Ishii is telling me, well, now you know what a professional football player, a pro wrestler can do against a martial artist.

1:17:19 Right? Right. After he knocked out Hoose, he became a star and people were like, oh, maybe a football player can punch. And I’m like, anybody can punch. He just happened to hit him on the chin.

1:17:34 But Bob eventually started training too. Just a little bit. A little bit, yeah. Just a little bit. But at that time when he was first starting on the scene and he beat Hoose, he became this megastar, high demand, making good money.

1:17:48 I mean, in Japan, I think he was doing $3 or $4 million a year endorsements. Yeah. I heard bigger numbers. I couldn’t even walk in the streets with this guy. Bob, let’s go eat.

1:17:57 Are you kidding me? I can’t even leave this hotel. I’ll get mobbed. It was like the Beatles. It was like this frenzy like the Beatles.

1:18:03 And he became a superstar there. So good for him. But I guess my reference back to Bob is that was the first fun fight I’ve ever seen. And to me, it was one of those magic moments in time where, you know, it just kind of like, you know, I went click, click. And I can still remember that fight till today.

1:18:21 It was so much fun to watch. Right. That Hoose one is what you mean. No, I’m talking about Nogera. If you look at that Nogera fight, like it’s fascinating.

1:18:27 The jiu-jitsu technique is fascinating because he’s working on that armbar for a long time. And then he finally slaps it on. But he’s getting a beating before that. And I mean, Nogera took beatings like nobody else, you know. You know, and probably paid the price with the skeleton because of it.

1:18:41 But yeah, he’s a warrior. I met him down in Rio as well. Like incredible. I want to name a couple of fighters and just get like a one-minute reaction on what you think of them or their future. Just like first things that kind of come to your mind from your kind of promoter’s hat.

1:18:54 Conor McGregor. Conor McGregor should be in movies. This guy is such a charismatic, you know, young, you know, just built, you know, has that, you know, rough look. I mean, he’s just a, he should be a movie star. He should be in action films.

1:19:11 He can be the next James Bond. Don’t you think? I never thought about that. Why not? He can be the next James Bond.

1:19:16 Conor should, you know, hey, fight your fights. Do your thing. You know, like, but when you retire one day, you can be the next James Bond. And that’s, he should start going to acting. He’s a, he doesn’t even need to be acting class, I’m sure.

1:19:28 This guy, you know, he’s a complete package. And is he the greatest fight in the world? No, he’s not. But he’s definitely the most marketable fighter in the world. He’s fighting Nate Diaz in August.

1:19:39 You know Nate Diaz well, because you dealt with him a little bit strike force. He was in the cage that night, I think, for that fight on air. Oh, yeah. What’s Nate, what is Nate like? And what do you see happening in that second fight?

1:19:51 I don’t think it’s going to be any different, honestly, you know, even if Nate gets hit and beat up, and he’s a guy that could just keep on coming then. And the endurance that those Diaz brothers have, people underestimate it because, you know, the lifestyle choices or whatever, you know, they do what they do. But man, what is the marijuana? Yeah, right. But the thing is, when it comes time to fight, these guys are running, you know, riding marathons and running marathons, riding century, you know, bike ride races.

1:20:17 Right, triathlons. You know, triathlons. I mean, they do 100, I think 150 mile bike rides. Their endurance, he’s going to have to deal with that because they’re going to keep coming man. And he’s had to keep dishing it.

1:20:29 And eventually, I think that, you know, it’s not going to work out for him. That’s just my opinion. But, you know, it’ll be entertaining. I’ll be watching. What’s Nate Diaz like?

1:20:39 He is who he is when you see him on TV. You know, he’s, he fought his first fight in MMA with a strike force. You know, he was under Caesar Gracie at the time. So as we had signed Gilbert Melendez and then Nate Diaz, eventually came out, we bought Pro League. He came on the strike force.

1:20:56 So we had a lot of interaction with those guys. And I’ve always liked them because Nate Diaz would have the best sound bites, like in the post-fight press conferences. He was making pretty good money from us. And he’d be like, you know, I used to ride my bike through the rich people’s neighborhood. And I’d see they have a fountain.

1:21:15 And I don’t have a fountain in my house. I used to live with my mom or whatever. And I’m like, Nate, you can buy any house or Nick, you can buy any house you want in Modesto, right? Or, you know, wherever it’s stocked and where he’s living. You’re fine.

1:21:30 Please don’t tell people we’re not paying you, right? But he would just come up with this in his head. And there’s certain audience that just love him because he’s just that guy on the street that is real, right? He’s just a guy on the street. He’s a real street guy but can fight the way they fight.

1:21:48 Yeah. And same with Nick as well, right? Yeah. Those two brothers, let me tell you,

1:21:55 If you were in an alley and you had those two guys coming to you, you better not say anything because they’re not afraid to fight in the ring and the cage, you’re going to have your hands full, man. They’re going to, they’re going to, they’re going to, they’re from a rough neighborhood, you know, and they’re not afraid of anything. I’m telling you, they’re not afraid of nothing. There’s that rumor, Nick Diaz fought. I forgot the guy’s name with the bleached hair and the UFC fought him in the ring.

1:22:21 They both go to the hospital later, fights him again in the hospital. Yeah. And I know his name because he fought for us. He got his shot himself, I think. It was his name.

1:22:30 But anyway, so that’s a true story. They go to the hospital because they both got beat up and they’re looking at each other, start talking smack and then they fight in the hospital. Right, right, right off the ground. It’s a crazy world, man. There’s this famous viral video of Nate Diaz giving Dana White the Stockton slap.

1:22:50 Have you seen it? He slaps him right in the side of the head and he mixes it in with a Tupac song that says something like, I don’t know, it says something pretty rude and it’s up there on his Instagram. Nate Berthold, Nate Diaz has strong Instagram game. First of all, do you know the story behind that? And would you ever take a Stockton slap to get a fight signed?

1:23:08 Oh, man, I don’t know. It would have to be a big fight. I give Dana a lot of credit, man. He took that slap to get that fight done, didn’t he? Yeah, you know, yeah, he probably did.

1:23:20 Because he was selling his company at the time, so now it makes more sense. Yeah, he probably said, this might be my last opportunity to get a slap from Nate Diaz. I showed that video to people, they’re like, that’s not Dana. I’m like, that is Dana. That is Dana.

1:23:32 It is Dana and he’s getting the slap. Yeah, I mean, that’s a promoter willing to take the slap to get the fight done. I got to give him credit. Right. A couple of the fighters’ names.

1:23:41 Ronda Rousey. Yeah. Thoughts on her last year, the future of her. You know what? We had the opportunity to work together early in her career and she had some great fights with Misha Tate, and she was a beast.

1:23:58 I mean, a real, real talented martial artist and had an Olympic judo background starting to learn how to strike. And I think that the fight with Holly Holmes, I think she got hit early. She couldn’t implement her game plan because she got hit early. And I think she was probably injured. She already taken damage.

1:24:20 She was probably concussed when she got hit. That’s what it looked like to me. She looked out early. And so that’s a fight that’s in people’s minds because it was an ugly man the way she got knocked out and everything. But Ronda’s a tough girl, man.

1:24:33 She’s been through a lot. I’ve also been a big fan of hers. And I think whatever she has her mind set to do, she’ll be able to do it. And so let’s see. I know she’s doing a lot of movie stuff.

1:24:44 And once a fighter kind of gets out into movie land, you know, it’s hard to come back sometimes because… Gina Carano. Great example. Yeah. I mean, I saw Gina in Italy.

1:24:54 We had a nice chat and, you know, she’s doing great. She’s just in Deadpool, you know, and no one’s punching in the face every day, right? No one’s trying to knock her out or submit her every day. And these girls or these fighters are warriors in their heart. I’m not kidding.

1:25:11 Gina has that fight in her. She’s still a martial artist. She loves to train. She’s having a picture of the day. She’s still training, right?

1:25:20 She’s still, you know, she’s got on her belt or her gloves and she’s gonna go work out. And but for her to actually say, I’m gonna go compete. Right. I’m gonna stop. I’m gonna tell my agent, stop booking me movies, you know, so I can go fight.

1:25:35 That just becomes unpractical at some point, you know, and, you know, it’s… Could she do it? Yeah. Ronnie could do it in a second. Gina could do it in a second.

1:25:43 But, you know, it’s worth it. They’re movie stars now, right? You’re saying Ronda Rousey’s not coming back. Oh, no. I didn’t say she’s not coming back.

1:25:50 I’m just saying it’s harder to come back. Yeah. I think she will because she’s, I think she has really, really wants to fight that fight again. I think so too, but it’s a long time off. Yeah.

1:26:03 And I will say this. I thought Gina Carano would come back, right? And every year that goes by, or every, you know, every six months that goes by, it’s gonna be harder for you. Six years now? Five years.

1:26:14 Yeah. It’s gonna be harder for you to come back. Yeah. And you know what? Gina Carano’s real specialty was not MMA.

1:26:22 She was a kickboxer. Right. Tieboxer. So if she wanted to come back, you know, my suggestion to her was, hey, go tiebox, you know, go kickbox. You don’t need to fight in May.

1:26:31 You could just do that. You know, Ronda, you know, she’s known for MMA only. So she would have to come back into the MMA space. And the expectations would be so high on both of these ladies, right? Because really, Gina was the original, right?

1:26:44 Yeah. And Ronda is, you know, the star now. And, you know, there’s other girls that have won. And, you know, like, there’s other girls in division. But Ronda is the star of the division.

1:26:55 Yeah. Hands down. Yeah. So if she wants to come back, it’d be great for the sport. And it’d be nice to see her compete and, you know, overcome that adversity that happened.

1:27:03 But it’s really good to her. And I think, you know, she has a strong mindset. You know, she’ll be, you don’t win the Olympics, right? You don’t go to the Olympics and become a medalist. Yeah.

1:27:16 You got a strong will and a strong perseverance. So I think it’s going to be up to her and what her goals are. Yeah. Last one. Jon Jones.

1:27:23 Yeah. What do you make of that last week of events in Jon in general and the future? You know, I tell you,

1:27:33 That’s an issue that’s so much bigger than fighting, right? This person has a real, I don’t know Jon person. Yeah. And so people don’t know, Jon was going to fight for the light heavyweight belt to regain it, one that he lost because of an incident, drunk driving incident about a year, year and a half ago. Two days before the fight, he’s tested positive by USADA.

1:27:53 It looks like it’s probably going to be a two year suspension. You know, personally, I don’t know the man, you know, but I would, I, you know, if I knew him, I would reach out to him and say, I’m concerned for you as an individual, as a human being, not just you being a fighter, you know, that’s secondary because, you know, these stories don’t tend to have a happy ending. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that comes first.

1:28:19 This comes second. Get this together. This could come back, you know, that’s how I feel. And it’s just been a series of issues. And I’m like you, I’m really on the internet, you know, I’m hearing you from Daniel Cormier, I’m hearing, you know, and so I’m hearing from people.

1:28:34 But I don’t know the guy and if I did, I would reach out to him and say, hey, you know, it’s not worth it, man. You know, you need to go get help. Go get treatment. Go fix yourself because how many people would love to be in your shoes, you know, that don’t have the opportunity, don’t have the skill set, the athleticism, right? And maybe things came too easy too early, you know, and then, you know, the lifestyle just kicked in, you know, of being a famous fighter, or being a famous celebrity.

1:29:03 But steroids now, it seems strange unless they’ve always been there and I guess you just don’t know. I mean, I’m sure you’ve known many fighters over the years that you would have been like, I never would have thought that would have happened. Yeah, you know, that’s true. But you know, it’s like, this is more than steroids, right? Recreational drugs, running from the police.

1:29:19 I mean, you know, it’s like, Yeah, I mean, the history of all these things. Yeah, I’m not talking about just the one incident. Yeah, and it goes back further, the junk driving crash years ago. I mean, there’s a whole period of this. Yeah, and that’s my point is like, man, look, you got to look at the whole picture here.

1:29:34 And if you do, people are concerned because he truly is an amazing talented fighter, but that doesn’t mean anything, you know, unless he fixes this. So I would say, hey, you need to please, go fix this part, and we’ll help you, you know, we’ll help you go fix it. And, you know, then you can come back and do this later. But if this doesn’t fix, it’s going to be, you know, a headline we read in the paper someday, that’s not going to be a positive one. Yeah, yeah.

1:30:04 Just want to finish on a couple questions about you, kind of the man and the entrepreneur, and just about your success over the years. Is there something that you kind of do in your daily routine? You know, ways that you like to lead a company, just kind of practices that we could kind of learn from. I know martial arts is still important to you. Yeah.

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1:30:42 Now back to the rest of the show. I love it. You know, in fact, I wear this every day. And this is my instructor gave me this. After I sold my company, I went back to the martial arts school.

1:30:55 I started training. I trained three, two and a half, three years with him. Okay. And then, what’s that you’re wearing? But it just says mastery.

1:31:02 Mastery. Wow. It’s on my wrist. It’s on my wrist. I’ve been wearing this for three years and I haven’t taken it off.

1:31:07 Because every day I wake up and I go, this is what I’m shooting for, is mastery, not just in what, for myself, but for the company I’m doing and trying to take it to the next level and take it to the peak. I don’t want to accept mediocrity in what I’m doing right now because this is not a job or an adventure that you work eight hours a day and then you hang it up. This is really a 16 to 20 hour a day job and you pour your whole heart and soul into this company. And it engulfs your life.

1:31:46 And I knew that was going to happen when I signed up. But I had three years of, had the ability to stop and smell the roses. Went from making every decision in the company pretty much to being, stopping and going from 120 miles an hour to two miles an hour. And there was really nothing for me to do. And it’s a very weird feeling.

1:32:09 So I decided then, I’m just going to wait because I don’t know what’s going to happen in three years. But as you got closer and closer and closer, six months into it, or four months before the end of the contract, I said, I’m going to go back. I’m going to start thinking in my head. I’m going to start preparing myself mentally because the workload and the commitment level is really, you know, you’re an entrepreneur, you know, your whole life has to go into it. Some things that might be really important to you have to become secondary because this is the commitment.

1:32:41 Your family has to know that too. And that’s exactly right. And the thing is is that you’re pouring your heart and soul into growing this business, this brand, and making it the internet. I’ve traveled more in the last two years, I think, than the last 10 years. Right.

1:32:53 And but I wake up every day and I look at this and I wear this because my martial arts teacher gave it to me. And, you know, he is a guy that’s 68 years old. Never stopped working out. Still has a six pack, ripped up. And his name is Ernie Reyes, senior.

1:33:11 And he’s walked the walk, you know, and and always lifted weights, always in shape, always, you know, done martial arts, always evolved in martial arts, meaning when the Gracie’s came, he didn’t say, oh, take one that was better. You know, he said, you know what, I better go put my white belt on, you know, and go be a student of jiu-jitsu because I have to know how to do this. I mean, he’s really an amazing, you know, person. So I started training with him again when I took the break.

1:33:42 And then he gave me this bracelet at a test. And I said, you know what, this is to me, I’m not going to take this off because every day I’m going to look at this, it’s going to remind me what my mindset has to be like, what my skill set has to be like, what my level of acceptance and don’t accept mediocrity because why should you? You could do it, shoot for the stars, or you could do it anywhere in between. It’s really up to you. And that’s really my mindset.

1:34:14 And that’s really something that I think that, you know, people that have their own businesses that are successful have to have that mindset. And even though I work for Viacom and Kevin K and Spike, I really look at this like, this is something I had to do for me. Not just for them, I had to do it for me because this is my give back to, you know, my martial arts journey. So that’s something I do every day. That’s powerful.

1:34:41 And the whole concept of mastery is, there’s no other reason to do it except just to master it, which is almost a journey of the self, a journey of many different levels. And you’re not doing it to necessarily flip the company or do this, do that. You’re doing it on the level of just the whole concept of mastery, which is almost a very Eastern concept as well. It’s, you know, I mean, I was, you know, my mom is Korean. My father is American.

1:35:05 They met in the 50s and I was born and raised in Seoul. So I grew up with the Eastern philosophy and Western philosophy. So I’m half Korean, half, you know, American or Scottish. The Coker name is a Scottish descent, actually. Okay.

1:35:18 So you’re home. Yeah, so I’m home. I was reading something about a Coker, John Coker, who was in parliament in 1523. Ah, we’re going to run this country one day. No, but on a serious note, it’s, you know, it’s like, you know, the East, my mom was a Buddhist.

1:35:36 My father was a Baptist. So growing up in Asia, doing martial arts in Asia, loving martial arts in Asia and committing my, you know, my life’s work to this, you know, growth of martial arts, not just MMA, but martial arts. It’s like, it’s good to understand both cultures because when I worked for K1, that’s how I really got along with Mr. Ushi because I understood the hierarchy of martial arts. Right.

1:36:05 And I also understood the Eastern philosophy of where his mindset was from. Mr. Ushi, that own K1, came from Seido Kaikan. He was one of Masoyama’s last students. Right.

1:36:20 And Masoyama, I’m not sure if you know who he is, but very famous karate guy, a karate guy. He was a Korean man living in Japan. Big guy. He’s a guy that fought the bull, you know, like the favorite, chopping the bull’s horns off, carrying baby elephants. He was just like this amazing martial arts.

1:36:37 But he built this massive organization in Japan, Seido Kaikan. No, I’m sorry, it was Kokushin. Kokushin, okay. And I’m hoping I’m saying this right, but Mr. Ushi was one of his last students.

1:36:52 And in Japan at that time, you take care of your instructor, you know, like he would bathe him and he was like the real sumo and feed him and, you know, like really because he’s your martial arts teacher. That’s how, you know, so when I look at, you know, the people I’ve had to work with in the martial arts field, not just great fighters, but great martial artists and the lineage that I’ve seen, you know, over the last, you know, like Mr. Ushi’s to Masayama and to, you know, it’s like a 150 year old lineage that I can look back and say, you know, my instructor came from here and here and here.

1:37:24 Mr. Ushi that I had a chance to work with came from here and here. You know, it’s, there’s something to be said about Eastern philosophy and Western culture, Western philosophy. You know, my father taught me, you know, when we were back here, I learned, yeah, it’s like, and you put the two together and really that’s been my concept, but it’s that saying I can see these slickers, that movie. I’m not right.

1:37:47 Okay. Well, I don’t remember the phrase. Okay, I’ll tell you the phrase because, you know, I say this to my son or, you know, to other friends and they say, it was Joe and Jack Plant said to Billy Crystal when Billy says to him, what is it? What is it, you know, like the meaning, you know, he says, it’s one thing. And he goes, well, what is it?

1:38:07 Because that’s for you to find out, right? Right. But, you know, what’s your one thing? It’s the martial arts. It’s like, you know, to me, it’s the growth of martial arts and I just believe in it and what it means and it’s just been integrated into my being since I was, you know, seven years old.

1:38:23 And, you know, the, you know, the black belt that’s on the floor can also be a black belt in life, right, or a black belt in business. Really, there’s no difference, right? And that’s what it comes down to for me. Yeah. Is that’s the journey, man.

1:38:44 That’s the journey in different, you know, different ways and different paths or being a fight promoter or teaching martial arts or working for a mystery sheet for K-1. It’s, you know, it’s always been about martial arts for me and, you know, I’m going to do my part and this is going to go on until I pass away. This is who I am. So, you know, the one thing I, when I wasn’t working, and I had the three years off, I was in much better shape because you have time to work out and train.

1:39:14 And so that’s a part I’m going to miss that, you know, maybe 2017, it’ll go back into the New Year’s resolution. But, you know, I love, I love working out in martial arts. I love teaching martial arts. I love watching martial arts. I love watching martial arts compete, you know, at the highest level.

1:39:30 I love it. I get to sit down at the cage and watch two of the greatest fighters in the planet compete at the highest level. And that’s a great feeling, you know, that’s like, I love this. This is not something that, you know, I wouldn’t tell Kevin K this, but they wouldn’t have to pay me. I would still do it.

1:39:54 Scott, I always ask everyone one question here at the end. I’m going to ask you, if you could make a phone call to the 20-year-old Scott Coker, get him on the phone and give that young man a bit of advice. What would you tell him? Where was he, by the way, still in Seoul? Or had you moved?

1:40:10 And what would you tell him? And would he listen? The 20-year-old Scott Coker was not a fight promoter yet. Started when I was 21.

1:40:19 But I was teaching martial arts. And I would tell him, you’re going to be fine. You’re going to have this great journey. You’re going to accomplish great things in martial arts. And you’re going to give back to the growth of martial arts.

1:40:36 So enjoy it. And don’t worry about it. Because when you’re young, you’re stressed out. It’s like my parents are on me about school and my brother’s doing all these great things. And my brother and I laugh about it because he had his journey.

1:40:50 I had my journey. And we both did well. I have another brother. The same thing. The whole family did well.

1:40:58 But there was a lot of pressure at that time. And you’re out there struggling and teaching martial arts. But it’s not like a full-time living. Going to school a little bit. So there’s some anxiety when you’re 20.

1:41:12 But the thing when I look back about being 20 is I was a lot faster. I was in great shape and I could kick real hard. What was your favorite kick? I love the spinning back kick. Spinning back.

1:41:24 Yeah. Spinning back kick. And like I said, my instructor was somebody that was a great role model for me because he never stopped working out. This guy was always in shape and always ate good. And I’ve seen what it looks like to go from in your 30s to 68.

1:41:43 And what that person looks like at the end is what my instructor is. He has not stopped training ever. And he walks to talk. And so to me, it’s something I really respected. But that 20-year-old, I would tell him, just relax and enjoy it because this is going to be quite the ride.

1:42:01 Because at 20, I didn’t know I was going to be a fight promoter. I thought I would just own schools and teach and give back. Second part of that question, best advice you’ve ever received in your life could come from your martial arts instructor. Maybe it was a business lesson you picked up. Is there anything that comes to mind where you’re like, yeah, that really resonated with me?

1:42:20 You know, I’ll tell you, my father told me and I forgot the exact saying, but he said, continue doing your martial arts because I know you love it. He goes, don’t worry about the money. Don’t worry about having a big house. If you love it, just do it. Make that your profession.

1:42:39 And I said, you know what? I’m going to do that. My mom, on the other hand, she was like, whoa, Asian mom? You got to, it’s all about school, man. It’s all about cracking the whip and you should go to school like your brother.

1:42:51 She used to tell me, you’re going to be a karate bum one day. I’m going to have to support you until you’re 50. She had all these anxiety about her son just being, you know, living on the street, begging for money, right? So, you know, it’s just funny how it all worked out. But, you know, I would say that it’s been a great journey, man.

1:43:10 This has been, to this point, it’s been amazing. You know, I’ve had the opportunity to travel around the world, see some of the best fights in the world. And in my earlier part of the career, teach some, you know, I still have students that reach out to me on Facebook and say, hey, I’m so thankful that we had the time and training because, you know, I’m doing this now. I’m doing that now. And the life skills that I learned from you, I’m still implementing into my everyday world.

1:43:35 And I thank you. And, you know, it’s just a great feeling. Mm-hmm. Last part of that, to that 20-year-old that’s out there in the world watching us live or listening to us, you know, on iTunes, what advice do you give to them if they want to grow up and, you know, be an MVP, be it Paul Daley or be it McGregor or Rousey? You know, you know, you’ve seen it.

1:43:55 You know, you’ve seen even what happens behind the scenes. You’ve seen them at their lows and at their highs. What do you tell them? You know what? It’s like, stay true to who you are and work your butt off, man, because the 16, 18 hours a day, like we’re putting into growing this business, they have to put it in on their side, you know?

1:44:15 And when I think about, like, Rhonda, Dan Henderson, Daniel Cormier, guys that have fought at the Olympic level, doesn’t get any more disciplined than that, right? These guys have put in the time and put in the time and same thing with guys, you know, like GSP. They’re working out six, eight hours a day, right? And really, just, you got to live it, man, and you got to want it and believe in yourself because at the end of the day, there’s not that self-confidence that you’re going to make it or you’re going to be that guy.

1:44:46 You’re not going to be that guy. And that’s why you see a lot of fighters. They have that little chip on their shoulder, right? And I like that because that means they have the confidence in what they’re doing. But that’s what I would tell them is, you know, you got to believe in yourself and you can’t let anybody outwork you.

1:45:01 You know, you have to wake up earlier than everybody else. You got to get your road work in just like Rocky did, right? You got to get your sparring in. You got to get your submission fighting in. You got to get your…

1:45:12 And, you know, stay true to who you are because at the end of the day, you know, you’re going to have to look in the mirror and look at yourself. Scott, I’ve been watching you for the past 10 years, I think, in all these different ways. I knew you were an OG of mixed martial arts and that’s really what you are. But when we talk tonight, it’s just all these milestones that I hadn’t even thought about. You know, first women’s MMA fights, you know, first this, first that.

1:45:36 I forgot about the heavyweight tournament. I mean, just incredible stuff. Not just to mention, you know, a lot of fighters wouldn’t be where they are without you. Of course, they put the work in too, but, you know, with Cormier be the heavyweight champ right now without a Scott Coker out there in the world, maybe not. And so, you know, you’ve really affected so many people’s futures, you know, even my future, the WME future.

1:46:00 I mean, it’s just been this kind of collective push. So I just wanted to thank you and acknowledge you for all that hard work, you know. And you always have this persona on camera, which is the same as you are now. I’ve watched all your Ariel Hawani interviews and you always have time for the press and time for the media and time for the fighters. And, you know, everyone says this kind of similar thing.

1:46:19 Yeah, well, thank you. It’s a pleasure being here. And, you know, I love London. I’m happy to be here for the fights tomorrow night. And, you know, if I come back, we’re happy to come back.

1:46:29 And if you come to America, we should have you out to the Bellator offices and show you what we’re doing. Fantastic. Where are you looking? We have an office in San Jose. Okay.

1:46:38 We have an office in Santa Monica. In Santa Monica too. Yeah, so it’s right there in the Viacom offices. They have one floor that’s Bellator floor. Excellent.

1:46:48 I will do that. All the best on Saturday night. I might be there for the fights. Everyone else should, there’s still tickets they can get Yeah, we have limited tickets available. Okay.

1:46:57 Coming down to the O2 box office. But we’re certainly a good crowd. Amazing. I love the O2 arena. The fight card is sick.

1:47:04 I would go just to see MVP. I would go just to see daily. Mitrion is always entertaining. I have to see what Reed does. He’s been off for a while, but we know him in this country.

1:47:13 It’s just, you know, that man dies on his shield in a big way. He’s a tough guy. And I can’t wait to see this card. So great to hear Bellator is where you want it to be. I’d love to see that organization go big in the future.

1:47:27 We have an expression here at London Real. We say it’s about the journey. And it’s a word you’ve said a bunch of times over this interview. And so I think you understand where we’re coming from. And I think there needs to be a bit of a higher purpose in everything you do.

1:47:40 And if you combine that with a lot of hard work, you probably have a life you can smile about kind of at the end. No, it’s true, you know. And you’re a martial artist. And I always appreciate that because you know the difference between fighter and martial artist. And you know the life skills that martial art teaches.

1:47:56 And just the powerful purpose that it can generate for some people. And really create a purpose and drive towards a goal. I mean, that’s really what you’re doing, what I’m doing. And you’re staying true to what you want to accomplish. And same here.

1:48:15 And we’d love to have you tomorrow night because I know MVP would love to have you there. I would love to be there. Love MVP. You know, he really impressed me, that man, just awesome, gracious, true martial artist at one point. And yet an amazing performer and fighter at the same time.

1:48:31 So congrats on this lineup. Welcome to London as Bellator. I hope you guys come back a lot and let’s have you back on the show again sometime. Thank you so much, Scott. Pleasure.

1:48:41 Thank you so much. All right. Thank you.