Klaus Yohannes - The Black Viking

Full transcript: Klaus Yohannes on London Real

4:01 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Klaus Yohannes, the athlete, fighter, poet and founder of the Black Vikings, a way of life built on the embracement of struggle and the mastery of suffering. You are on a mission to complete what you call the seven sagas, which are physical challenges meant to test the mind and the soul.

4:22 On April 14th, the day before Good Friday, you attempted the Crucifixion Saga that nearly ended your life, with you carrying a 60-kilogram wooden railway sleeper across your back while barefoot and bare-chested for 7.2 miles through central London. You expected this March to take five hours, but instead it lasted nine hours and 46 minutes, as your arms went completely numb and you repeatedly fell headfirst into the concrete, with people from all walks of life coming to your aid, as you finished this journey across the city. Two days later you were diagnosed with a self-inflicted life-threatening spinal cord injury and ordered into immediate surgery.

4:59 You lost the feeling and coordination in your right arm, but you’re going through physiotherapy right now to rebuild yourself and continue your sagas with the Black Vikings. Klaus, welcome to London Real. Thank you. Thank you for having me. My pleasure.

5:12 You’ve had a busy year, haven’t you? Yes. Look, I want to talk about this saga. I want to talk about the Black Vikings, but just to put this in perspective, maybe I should tell people how I know you. Um, and so we were both training at the Virgin Gym here, right at Moorgate, and you know, when I go to train, like when you go to train, I go in to just take care of business, right?

5:36 I try to work hard, I try to stay focused, and to be honest, there’s not a lot of people in gyms these days that do that. And so I remember one day I caught this dude out of the corner of my eye, and it was you, and you just looked really focused. You were doing some crazy gangster, you were like, I don’t know what you were doing, but you were doing, like, I don’t know if it was like this thing with a squat bar, where you picked up thrusts around, and you were doing this, and I clocked you, and I was like, all right, this guy’s something different.

6:03 There’s something going on here. And I don’t know if I said hi to you or not that day, but I kind of made a mental note, and then the next time I saw you, you were doing some other kind of gangster stuff against a heavy bag, and then I blinked my eyes, and I looked over, and you literally had a battle-axe in one hand and have a metal shield, like, seriously, in the middle of a Virgin Gym, and I was, I just literally laughed myself, and I’m like, I gotta go talk to this dude. So I walked over and I was like, alright, what are you doing?

6:28 Yeah, because, you know, this looks like a guy I gotta get to know, because you were doing some hardcore stuff, and from there I found out a little bit about the Black Vikings, about what you do, and you’re like, hey Brian, I’m doing this saga coming up. I’m trying to raise money for my gym, because I want to keep it open. It’s a great place for the community, and I was like, cool man, tell me about it, and I was like, wow, that sounds really hardcore, and you’re like, I’ve done these things before.

6:53 And so that’s how I got to know you, and then I remember you went into the saga. I watched it live, and then all of this other crazy stuff happened. I visited you in the hospital, and I thought it would be great to have you here and tell the story. So for people that don’t know much of the background, maybe we just start with the saga itself. So this is about two months ago, yeah, the day before Good Friday.

7:17 You know, you decide that you want to do this Crucifixion Saga. Why do this? I mean, the death march, like, all service consists of three attempts. The first attempt, you know, you’re trying to better yourself, with each one really pushing the envelope before you know your limit. Okay, so a saga is created to push yourself, yes, physically, but to find it, but the thing is, the nature of people, you, no matter how hard you want to push in the beginning, you’re always going to be cautious, you know.

7:48 So I know that. So with my first death march, it consisted of a 40-kilo sandbag. I think two and a half hours. I was able to train two days after that. It was no way near my limit.

7:59 So you carried a 40-kilo sandbag again through London. Yeah. How long, how long must it, Christmas Day? Yeah, 7.2 miles. You like these biblical holidays?

8:07 I don’t know. It’s just, I like Christmas Day, because I thought to myself, I like to come, the idea that everybody’s at home, you know, stuffing their mouths with food, relaxing and no, I’m out there training, you know, like, and I like, I like the notion, you know, it’s, if it’s the same reason I’ve been able to put up with so much in my life, you know, living with no electricity, you know, eating every other day, because most people would collapse, or thinking things like that. But what I liked is that I knew nobody would be able to put up with it, and I was dealing with it with a smile on my face, still training just as hard as everyone else.

8:42 But I liked that, and that pushed me, and I, I kind of made it like, everyone kind of like a novel in my head, you know, a story in which I’m the hero, and I’m struggling, and this is beautiful. The struggle is beautiful as long as you’re aiming, you know, to come out of it, you know. So I take, add meaning to my suffering. Okay. Otherwise you suffer meaninglessly.

9:04 And so Christmas Day last year, Christmas Day last year. Yeah, last year, forty-kilo San Juanillo sandbag, you walking through London. Yeah. Did, what did people think of that? To be honest, we did.

9:16 At that time we’d start at my brother-in-law, with me, and we did it at Kinkos, like 7:00 in the morning, and it was dark, you know, and generally was raining. It was a horrible day, but people were shocked, you know, like nobody really stopped us then. Last Christmas, Christmas Day, when it was a 60-kilo sandbag, and that I did alone, and I was, it was very, very hard. Okay, I know, but, break him, but I did it in three and a half hours. So I came back and I was like, you know, euphoric, you know, so happy that I did it.

9:46 You know, I didn’t give up. My hands were in bits, like, but I was so happy, and I was like, I almost wanted to do again, you know, like you were saying. I wanted to, try it more, like, this isn’t limit. So, but I mean, the whole time that I’m doing this, I’m revisiting, I’m doing office hours as well, so it doesn’t follow a specific order. It’s whatever is available to me.

10:06 Some I can do quite quickly, quite easily. Some, for example, require me to leave the country, so those ones are kind of held back a little bit. Okay, and you have a whole list of sagas you want to do. There’s one, there’s some coming up where you’re gonna go into the wilderness in Scotland with limited food. You previously completed a saga where you basically rode from London to Greenland with a team of people, and you rode how many, how far was it?

10:31 About five million meters. Five million meters, and you did that. That is like a saga. So cool. Just over a year.

10:37 It’s about a year and three months. Okay. Yeah, all right. And the Crucifixion Saga that you did two months ago, that was this kind of final, hardcore attempt at doing this, and you decided to carry a big hunk of wood over your back, railway sleeper. Why?

10:55 I mean, one is something that somebody said to me in the Legion wrestling club, and they were like, oh my god, so is he doing the death march? It’s almost like, you know, like Jesus’s death march, you know. And I was like, thing in my head, you know, thinking it’s almost Easter, and I was like, I wanted to push myself further with that. We need to raise some money for the refurbishment of the club. I saw, I killed two birds with one stone, you know, and I’ll do that.

11:23 But then I thought to myself, you know, I looked into the death march done by Jesus, which actually didn’t, if you listen to the story, those, I think it’s a legionnaire or somebody that helped him carry it, but he was carrying the cross. Yeah, okay. But, uh, but I fooled myself, okay, to make it. It’s about suffering, it’s about struggle, and it didn’t seem right to have trainers on and a jumper, for so I was like, okay, barefoot, bare-chested. And you know, we did the whole point was to basically reach a point of struggle, you know, and then it really begins from there.

11:57 You know, because I read, the whole point was really to, to push myself as close as I can to that edge, you know, without hurting myself, but it’s a fine line. You know, obviously. Yeah. Why, why are you trying to do this? What are you trying to find?

12:13 The thing is, you know, I established, I, like I said, to have, you know, I always say that, I compared to my life before I started this, others, and things like that. I mean, as little as four or five years ago, I referred to myself as a worm, you know. Impe was like, oh my god, that’s such a bad thing, you know, but when I say worm, I mean I didn’t see myself as worthy of, you know, anything good happening to me, you know, because I didn’t have that self-belief in myself, partly the way I was raised, partly, I mean, I’ve, you know, I always said that one of the first things I learned as a child was shame, you know, and I had to live with that for a long time.

12:52 And you know, then I came to this country, and I didn’t have my father. First I had a bad father, then I had no father, and it was hard, you know, like I didn’t speak the language. All of a sudden I’m only back here, I’ve got a deal with racism, the National Front, all these things, and I’m just, you know, like a scared voice, so, like, most, I kind of, like, started with a group, and I, you know, just kind of let people make the decisions for me, and I followed.

13:18 I followed a lot, you know, and, and then as soon as I could, I built up my physique. I became muscular, you know, kind of grew into myself, and I thought, yeah, that’s a, I fix my issues. I didn’t. I just put some band-aids around it, you know, and, and then you came a point in time when I lost everything. I was run over, you know, so like by a car.

13:37 Yeah. My whole body just messed up. To be ninety years, so your self-esteem was low as a child growing up here, dealing with racism here. Then you built up your physique in the outside world. You look like you had it all going on, but you were still broken, this time.

13:53 Yeah, and then luckily, I mean, I met, you know, my ex-fiancée, who I was with for a long time. She’s an amazing woman, you know, and but like I said, I always regretted, because, you know, like I met a queen, but I wasn’t a king, you know. I was, I was unworthy of her, and I know eventually I messed that up. But so when she left and I said, I was just, you know, me, you know, nothing around. I didn’t have a job, no, no savings, my body was messed up, the woman I had planned life with, she was gone, and then basically some other stuff happened with my family, so I didn’t have them in my life.

14:31 So all this stuff was happening, and I was like, it was just me, you know, me and who I was deep inside, and I struggled. I was in a depression for like three, three, three, four years, and I mean, in one year I don’t think I left the flat more than 10 times in a year. You know, I would literally just lock myself in there. And yeah, so the whole point when the conception of the sagas was the acceptance that, you know, I can’t, I can’t use any more band-aids.

15:04 This is who I am. Okay, I have to face myself. This is who I am. How do I change this? What can I do?

15:10 You know, and so, though the only thing I’ve always said, that, you know, this, the world will deny you many things, you know, like success if you want it, you know, glory, all these kind of things, but nobody would ever deny you struggle. You know, struggle is freely given, you know. And so, far okay, fine. That’s what I got. That’s what I have access to, that’s when we work with.

15:31 So everything started with just daily cold bluffs, you know, of, turn on winter, summer, spring, no matter whoever, put above cold water and sit in the bath for 10 minutes, and I will do that every single day. So you basically had nothing left except for struggle, and so you decided to go into that headfirst and find out how could you evolve through that, stronger. Or I mean, like, Pauly is like, I don’t even think I saw it as far as that. I just feel like, almost like I don’t I didn’t plan that I’m gonna come to food s and then grow.

16:04 I just thought to myself, I don’t know, but I don’t know. To be honest, sometimes I wonder if I began it as something to self, self-punishment, maybe. It was, I don’t know. I would have to really examine myself, right? But, but ultimately, whilst in the process of all these things, my head became clearer, you know, and Black Vikings became, you know, replaced so many other things, and I thought, okay, this is my mission, you know, and Black Vikings is a mission.

16:33 It’s a way of life. Yes. And what is Black Vikings? Like, Vikings is, you know, I say it’s picking him fitness initially. I’d made it, you know, I, that my vision was too small, but as I kind of gone through the fathers, I realize now it’s, it’s not a brand, it’s not a method of training, it is a way of life, through glorious deaths and rebirths.

16:56 You know, so what does that mean? Glorious deaths and rebirth. As Fargo, it’s a challenge, you know, it’s done and completed. A saga, the whole point of a saga is a journey in which the hero begins here, something happens between the start and the finish, where it, change happens, you know, within themselves. Now, change like that, you know, I would say most everything is subject to change, but people do not change willingly, you know.

17:23 You have to, I mean, you have to have no other choice, and then you can change, but generally people are creatures of habit and comfort. They won’t, and also for me to be able to change, I had to be broken down, and the whole point of a saga is you’re broken down, you know, you’re broken down, and then you have choice. Two choices presented to you. You can quit, you know, and go back to where you were, or even choose to carry on. I’m better guarantee once you reach that point of death, and you carry on, you know, you, the process of change begins, and a saga is just many of these things, continuous deaths and rebirths, and Destry person, that could take years, millennia.

18:04 It’s a saga, okay? I mean, that’s the whole point. Is that, you know, like, I mean, some of the sagas you know can be done in, like, having one. I did one hour and 15 minutes. You know, some, a year and a half.

18:16 I mean, there’s the V saga, which consists of basically climbing Mount Elbrus, Kilimanjaro, and then Everest, you know, and I will do those, but I mean, how long is that going to take? I don’t know. I’m not gonna put a number in it, but the whole point is, it’s also a test, not only of how you, you know, not only of do you have the resolve to see a, to see it through, but do you have the commitment to stick at something long enough? Like that, you know, most people who don’t.

18:45 Most people try something for a little bit and then quit or fade away slowly. So it’s a test of everything really, and for you, if you quit, you go back to being a worm. Is that always in your mind? Yes, yes, of course. I mean, even now, you know, when I was in the hardest time was when I was in the rehabilitation centre, you know, because I would, I hate, I always said, you know, like anybody who shields you from suffering weakens you with what they believe to be a kindness.

19:13 And so when I was in the hospital, I would try and do things for myself, and the nurses would stop me, you know, and, and I got angry, not at, I didn’t get angry at them, but I got angry that I was afraid that the old me, the worm in there, would start to like it, and start to, you know, and so I would constantly fight them to try and do as much as I can, you know, move the chair. And it was like a constant battle, where they will stop me. Sometimes I’ll sneak it in, but then every now and then I would drop, and then security tightens, and I won’t be able to move much up from there.

19:47 But I think we’re all worried about the worm inside of us, you know. I think that’s why when we see weakness and failure, we, it disgusts us, because we know that’s inside all of us, and so that’s constantly reminding you of what’s going on. Okay, I think I’m understanding this more. And so the Black Vikings, why call it the Black Vikings? Are you a Black Viking?

20:09 Were there Black Vikings? I don’t think there were, but I mean, but they’re a myth out there. Are myths of being, backlight. It’s always funny, because basically, like, my name sounds quite Germanic, and a friend of mine and I have axes on my walls. I like the cold, and so a friend of mine joked once, you know, like you like a Black Viking.

20:29 Now I like that. That’s two words that you don’t expect to be together, you know. For Google, did, and, and then a guy came up for hold the black, like, surely can’t be a Black Viking. So I looked into it, and I don’t think they meant black as in, you know, African. I think more of, you know, like a complexion of a darker complexion.

20:53 But I like the concept, you know. I liked it, and I started using it, and I wasn’t still sure until, all of a sudden, I started getting all these messages from people, you know, there’s no such thing really. Like, some quite racist, you know. And then I was like, oh yeah, this is the name I want, and they convinced me, you know. That’s the irony of it, because it stirred emotion.

21:14 Yeah, because the point of Black Vikings, through the movements, through the sagas, is to provoke change, you know. Is to provoke, instigate chaos, and if that instigated some kind of reaction in you, well, then it’s the correct name. Hmm. And what is the purpose of Black Vikings? To provoke people, to challenge them into examining their life and asking them if they’ve gone, what, too soft, gotten too comfortable?

21:40 Yes. But also, I mean, all said, it’s physical betterment and mental freedom, you know. So I mean, even, like, I mean, it’s this way. I say it’s more than fitness. It’s even in terms of, you know, looking at yourself and the role in the world.

22:18 By 2050, they said that 68% of the population will live in urban areas, you know. There’s some major changes happening in the world. We are more and more disconnected from nature, you know, from, from the natural world, and the thing is, we are the natural world. Human beings as a whole, and you see the repercussions of city living on people, you know. Our bodies are suffering, our minds are suffering, have cell, well, our bodies.

22:45 I mean, I can tell you, you know, I’m wearing shoes. It’s nothing more than a coffin for your feet, you know. Your feet are supposed to splay, they’re supposed to wiggle, your toes are supposed to work, and most people’s feet are like flippers, you know, from constant pressure by tissue. And then even in terms of, like, I think I will go as far as even depression, you know, and anxiety, all these kind of problems. And then I compare it to, like, you know, I look at the city, and I see almost like what a zoo is.

23:15 It’s, to us, the city is, to wild animals. So I think we’re raised up and on display. Well, you, you’re being fed, you know, like an animal in the zoo. You know, your dad declawed you. They’re defined, you, you know, and they’re pretty much domesticated, you, you know.

23:34 And but the whole point of an animal, I mean, do you see what happens to animals in captivity? No matter how big the cage, there’s something else which is off, and that’s something that happens inside of wild animals as soon as you begin to feed them. Something happens. You get lethargic. They don’t want to reproduce.

23:51 And the thing is, and also, you can’t, once that process has happened, you, you can’t reintroduce him back into the wild, you know. And I think it’s just something that I, I’ve always felt. I mean, I would always call me a hippie, you know, when I was young, which I never understood at that time, because it’s almost trying to, you know, like, play off, you know, like, I was just a hippie, you know. But what is the hippie? Just somebody who’s in contact with nature.

24:16 Are we not nature? I mean, see somebody using contact with themselves, you know. And so the whole point of Black Vikings, for, said, is to build what I think I’ll call sacred ground, and she’s basically a commie, a community, you know, where the focus will be on, you know, the sagas, the instigation, the installation of the sagas as rites of passage, you know, for children coming of age, to have, you know, community based on, you know, physical betterment, meant to freedom, to question things around themselves, to be able to feed themselves, to learn skills which really are more relatable to the world, to life, because when we think of life, this isn’t life.

25:00 This is just almost compare it to a social experiment, you know. This is ready and social media, and almost it hasn’t really been going on that long. You can write, and you want to get back to basics. What? No, no, no.

25:12 I don’t need to make to think that I’m completely against technology, and I’m one of those, no, completely. I think there’s a role for everything, you know, but I just don’t, I think we need to be more independent. I don’t like the concept that I don’t know you know anything about the natural world. I, you know, to see it, I have to put on a documentary. That’s not you know, it’s, it’s just not right for me.

25:36 And a lot of your vision of the future, the Black Vikings became clear while you were stuck in this hospital. To stop, yeah. And, and I want to get into that as well, but this is the vision for the future. You want to build something where children can grow up and do all that, and you’re thinking about orphans, or what, you, you can’t have children? No.

25:57 Okay, and so what, what is your plan? Did I tell you that? I think you did. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

26:02 When I talk about that, I mean, if I knew, I think I found that my early 20s, and they kind of, like, kind of devastated me, but I kind of, I don’t know how I put it away into the back of my head, and then I convinced myself that it didn’t really happen. The doctor didn’t really say that, you know. And then, when I met my fiancée, and I had a friend of mine who’s always very wealthy, and he basically said, look, let’s go private. I’m gonna pay for a doctor.

26:33 You know, he went to Harley Street. You know, they’re like, they’re gonna basically do something called a, a, finish, called sperm retrieval, and yeah, the, the operation. It cost him, like, God, five thousand. I mean, close to ten grand, and in the end, well, again, is there’s no hope, there’s nothing. And the other saga, throwing your way.

26:54 Yeah, and that was hard, you know. Like it’s hard, because, uh, like I said, it happened at that time when I wasn’t, what I was, still that worm, you know, and so in my head I thought it, as you know, my own failure, even though I mean it’s not something I did, you know. It’s something I’m just born with, but uh, yeah, and then, then I just thought, okay, you know, the idea of orphans. I mean, I always speak about orphans, and it’s mostly because of that, tied to that, to the fact that I couldn’t have children, but also to the fact that, I mean, in my country of birth, as, area, of country of origin, Eritrea, you know, we have a lot, you know, and in Africa as a whole, really.

27:37 And so I always thought, well, the act, and people probably say something about this, but I mean, the act of procreation has a somewhat selfish, anyway, because really, I mean, you’re trying to bring forward your gene. I mean, if it was about children, there’s so many children in the world already, you know. So I just, I put myself, is the right thing to do. I said five. Don’t ask me why I said five.

28:04 I just always wanted a big family, but but you know, I’ll see. So five orphans. I thought it’d be like five thousand. No, let’s, like, Viking orphans somewhere in the door, or they, wired up, five to each, adopt five. Okay, and decide, and they can go in like that.

28:19 Okay. Um, I want to get into what happened in the Crucifixion and to some of the details, but before we get into that, yeah. The other thing that always struck me about you, after I met Chester, I’ve fallen, you, on Instagram, and I got a picture with you, and the axe and the shield, and your poetry, and you’re a guy that writes poetry, and you post it on your Instagram. And I mean, you couldn’t make this stuff up, really, Klaus, but your poetry is pretty powerful.

28:42 Um, can you talk to me about how you started writing it? Friends, I, community, there, some with us at some point. It’s affection on my phone. It is enough to switch that over. I will turn it on.

28:53 It’s um, yeah, but um, what’s with the poetry? No, to be honest, I started when, when I came to this country. I didn’t speak. I didn’t speak English, and I remember when we came, I mean, we were stuck. We, we literally moved in into the Angel area, and we stayed in this flat, and I swear it felt like we stayed in there for a year.

29:15 We didn’t really leave, you know, and we didn’t have much, and so, as me and my sister, I remember we would, we didn’t have many toys, so what we’d do was draw onto a piece of paper and cut it out, and then play with the figurines, like that, you know. And then so all this, software will do with papers, and she was, she was, she would draw, and and you know, I just started writing. Initially, was it in Italian, and then as I learned English, and I would have a dictionary by my bed, because you grew up in Naples before you came to this country.

29:46 Yeah. So, and we can talk about that afterwards. So that’s pretty intense place. So you started writing in Italian, and then you converted it to English, slowly converted. Okay, and then you started writing these poems.

29:55 Yeah, I mean, initially, to do terrible. Initially, I’m not gonna lie, I read some of them the other day. I live in my mom’s house, but yeah, but I kept it up, it’s the one thing that I kept up for, you know, throughout my life, and and some point during the early 2000s, like 2005-2006, I was basically, I spent almost, I spent the best part of that decade going to open mic nights, you know, performing in different places, spoken word. Yeah, really? Yeah, okay.

30:26 I mean, I, we coded some stuff, like verging on rap. Okay, yeah, and then naturally just kind of evolved into this, what it is right now. It’s something I don’t even call poetry sometimes. I just call, you know, meditations more than anything, because I don’t know what it is. I don’t know what it is, but I enjoyed writing them, and it’s one thing that I’ve kept up, that’s probably before, and I was, it was there, where, you, before fitness, you got anything you could drop on us right now?

30:58 Not often. I will come back to that. Let’s talk about the Crucifixion Saga. So I was with you at Virgin, and we did, like, an Instagram story, and I was like, check this guy out, he’s doing it. And I remember I’d encourage you to film it.

31:12 I think you were gonna film it anyways, but I was like, you gotta get this on tape, as it sounds epic. And then I remember watching it on Instagram live the next day, and it looks like hell is what it looked like. And I was wondering if you could talk us through that day. What was it like? What happened?

31:30 What do you remember from all the details? The people on the streets. I mean, you had a guy in bagpipes following you through central London. You had strangers giving you water and trying to help you, and meanwhile, I mean, we’re gonna post some pictures, but you’re literally walking down the street with this massive wooden, you know, like, what is it? It’s like a huge block of wood, you know, over your neck, barefoot, bare-chested, trudging down the, the middle of London, right, with no shirt on.

32:00 What what actually happened on the day? Mmm, okay. Well, first I should say that, I think it was on the exclusive, ation happened on the first day, on the Wednesday. I was in Virgin training, and out of all the madness I’ve done in training, I’m adjusting the bench to try and put it down, and my finger gets caught, and literally as a bench comes down, and it just cuts right through my finger, blood everywhere, and the first thought was, oh my god, how good, the crucifixion tomorrow, you know?

32:30 But so basically, anyway, I’ll clean that up, put superglue on it, and generally with small lacerations, I was super, do it, and generally always takes. Yeah, but the thing is, I didn’t have much time, so by the time, anyway, I woke up on on Thursday, the guys came over, we picked up this log. Initially I was supposed to have chang, right? Just because, yeah, well, Hollywood flavor. It was, I don’t know, I just wanted to make it as hard as, of course, right?

32:55 So chains hanging off the block, yeah, the railway sleeper, basically, which is how long, six-mile, sheet now. It was about two point, there’s a 2.4 meters, it’s a 7 feet, yeah, ain’t feet long, nothing like that. Okay, but so, and little, Finca took a couple two steps, and the swing of the chain, I mean, each chain weighed 12 kilos, so the swing of the chain was ridiculous, it’s throwing me off balance, so we’re like, okay, that’s not gonna work, so we’re like, alright, what about if we loop it around?

33:25 So we tried that, and I took a few steps, and I was like, okay, this can work, and I mean, I’ve walked about five minutes, and then encountered the first problem. I like, unless I’m going to carry this thing all the way through without taking it off, I can’t actually bring it down, because if I tilted it to the side, one chain would slide off, and then the other one would follow through. So we’re thinking of these solutions, and at the end it became too late.

33:49 As I looked, let’s leave the chains. Can we just carry this thing? And so picked it up, started carrying it, no problems at all. Blackfriars, around Blackfriars, that got a little bit hard, but the problems really began, yeah, on Embankment, which is 2 miles in, 3 miles in, that, yeah, maybe two miles, a couple, a tower, and maybe it was an hour and a half in. Okay, and then what was the first problem?

34:14 Oh, the first one was, mom, so a number, it went numb. Yeah, and the thing is, I kept saying, and I know people tell me that I kept saying, wait, wait, let, let the blood come back, because I’ve always, like, as you know, almost, you know, when you get a dead arm, and you, and so I kept shaking my hand, but the feeling wasn’t coming back, and so and the venous are still wasn’t after. Okay, you know, I wasn’t too worried about it. I mean, it wasn’t as bad as it was in the beginning, but so anyway we walked a little bit more and struggled again, dropped against, and that’s when we saw the guy played in the back, because your arms are numb, so you can’t really feel them or hold on to it.

34:51 What would happen, because they’re in this position, as high as here, right? And what would happen, it, because the numbness, you lose grip, so the grip would go, am I had to just drop, literally, just drop, and so I’d have to get in position again, and it just kept happening, and happening. At one point I sat down, and I was really, I don’t know, I had to search myself, you know. It’s like, okay, what’s gonna happen now? Because I was like, this is impossible, it can’t be done, and I’m going through all these arguments in my head, this can’t be done, you know, it’s too much, and I’m trying to find, I can’t explain, but in my head I was doing, like, the mental arithmetic, which, what is the solution that I can save face?

35:30 I mean, I’ve made this whole big deal, there’s people recording, everyone knows about it. I’m gonna raise money for leisure, and now look, what am I gonna do? So I’m glad you designed this, because you knew, yes, your brain was gonna come at you with everything it had, but now I can’t do it, you know? How come, quick, how could I quit from going through this entire video, and you’re literally laying on the ground, you look like barely conscious. Yeah, are you tired at that point?

35:54 No, it’s just been, I can’t explain to you, but every time, you imagine every time my arms came down, especially when I got to, back out to Tottenham Court Road, it felt like my arms were being ripped out of their sockets, every time, the force of gravity alone, and it would, like, I would scream. It was like a guttural scream, you know, and you’re now, you’re gonna quarter way through at this point. Oh no. And then it got really hard at Embankment, because obviously the numbness, but then I saw a friend of mine that I hadn’t seen in a year, and I looked up, and I saw him.

36:26 What you doing here, you know? Anything ever, wonder if it’s divine intervention? Straightaway, you know, I love, or maybe it’s coincidence, but at that moment in time I have to believe it was divine intervention, because it got me up, you know. And then the guy with the bagpipes started following us. So some random guy with bagpipes, and see some dude with his shirt off, going through with a sleeper on, and he decides to start playing bagpipes for you and start marching with you, and then I remember every time I would drop the sleeper to rest, he would stop playing, and just a silence descended on the whole of me.

37:01 Bang. I mean, we’re talking hundreds of people were just sitting there staring. You, everyone just starting with their phones, no recording. Yeah, so that’s one. There’s people out there, there was some amazing, amazing footage, better than me, but yeah, if you have that footage, you got to contact me at London Real and send it there.

37:17 All right, so what’s going through your mind now? You see the friend, so you’re getting these little birds of inspiration. Yeah, but you got five miles left to go, and then that’s crazy, when impossible. Well, I got to there, and I saw my friend, the bagpipes, helped, and literally I just looked down, and in my head all I was saying was, one foot, one foot, one foot, one foot, and I just did that, and I’ve got me to Fargo Square, just saying that, you know, obviously I was dropping here and there, but pretty much I got ditched.

37:44 Fargo, and then you got really hard there. There’s many more people. I mean, it’s people everywhere, and then I would drop, and I was unable to bear the bear weight, so as I dropped, I couldn’t break my fall, and my head was just bounced off the concrete. And I remember there was one time when I was trying to lift myself up, and I would just drop the other side, and I pushed myself. I’m desperately trying to get up, but the most desperately I tried, too hard.

38:12 I kept falling, you know, and so, like, and people giving you water, but you can’t even, like, grip the water bottle, right, so they’re trying to put water in your mouth. Yeah, I’ve seen the video, man. You look like, honestly, you look unconscious, like I thought you were done. I mean, is the hardest part, because around that time, I, Trafalgar Square, those. I remember there was a couple of people there when I was on the floor, literally laying on the floor, and I looked in agony, and people were attacking, the people out, with, like, how can you let him do this?

38:40 And they started pounding, therefore, maybe we kinda, like, you know, class, maybe you could stop, you know? And, and then they gave me that you know, like, almost the reason, an excuse, like, it’s okay, you’ve done good enough, you know, you can stop. And I it was being so easy to say yes, I have done good enough, you know? Probably people say, uh, you know, well done. Nobody would have voted me.

39:00 I tried, you know, but I couldn’t. I was like, whatever has happened, because I knew by then something had happened. You know, enough. Initially I thought it’d be the shoulders, but I knew something had happened, and so I thought to myself, I’m gonna have to probably go to hospital anyway, you know, that’d be like dying twice. You know, I mean, I’ve already, I was like, no, finish it.

39:27 Let’s just go, explain, time twice. Well, basically, the first, that would be, you know, like imagine, you know, if you ever heard, like, a coward dies a thousand deaths. You know, it’s like you relive that moment, and every time you relive it, you’re dying. You, you, in that, in that in that fear and the backing away from a fight, you know, which is, oh, that would be, is, I would be constantly dying, that, constantly, and I just put myself where, as if I just do this now, yes, I die once.

39:58 You know, my body will be dead afterwards, that’s it. You know, I’ve done it. I only need to do it once. I don’t need to do a thousand times, you know. And sorry, okay, and I get that, that’s logical, but what’s the real reason you didn’t stop?

40:12 Is it, are you thinking of the worm? Are you thinking of people you don’t want to let down? Like, how do you, can you make sure both? Because I thought to myself, like, oh, so you know, like, I mean, failure is not a bad thing, but you know, giving up when you know you haven’t reached it, you know, when you know, like, you could do more, you could, and on you. Yes, I’m, you know, I’m not gonna get them looking pretty.

40:34 It’s gonna be messy, but I knew this is doable. I mean, I’ve done the death march before. Let’s stand back, and I knew, you know, it wasn’t like, if there’s a new march, possibly, a, you know, it would be okay, but I knew I had more in there. Yeah, but your arms aren’t working, and this sleeper’s massive, yeah, and it’s making you fall into your head on the ground. Like, honestly, can I watch the footage?

40:55 Like, I didn’t see it away, but I don’t know. I suppose I also drew inspiration from the actual, you know, Jesus’s death march, you know, which the whole point was successful. And I was like, so what now? You’re suffering, and you’re gonna stop, like this? The whole point was this, you know, so what?

41:12 You wanted to suffer in an easy way. There is no easy way if you’re really suffering. So I don’t know. And then I remember when I was walking, some people giving me you know, so much love, you know, like, you know, so many Irish people just walking by. Jesus loves you, Jesus loves you, and then there’s some guys driving by calling me a wanker, you know.

41:33 So close, you’re in England. Yeah, so somebody would think I fed all of, from older energy, you know. And I remember there was one woman, and she passed me, you know, and, and when she passed me, I heard her say under her breath, why would anyone do this? I loved that. That kept me going, from literally from the top of Agra all the way, turn on, co-wrote that go, just outline.

41:56 Just thinking about that in your head, because that says it all. Yeah, and you know, like, I just, I don’t know, he just, it really inspired me. Another, another part, which I don’t tell many people, but I saw my cousin, who we don’t speak, families don’t speak anymore, but I mean, it’s weird, because she was walking straight towards me, where you are right now, probably a little bit further back, and imagine, I, the whole story is full of people, but everybody’s moving aside, because it’s this black guy who’s barefoot, bare-chested, with a beam on his back, and she was the only one pretending like she couldn’t see me.

42:35 You know, and I don’t know, that fed me as well. So all these positive energies, negative energy, I was taking all of that in, absorbing it in, and it just, just folk. I don’t know, it just helped. Yeah, it’s funny, because about five days ago, in that chair was a guy named David Goggins, and you know he specializes in suffering as well, and he’s got different techniques he uses, and one of them was called taking souls, when he sees someone that he just wants to show them that he can do it.

43:04 Yeah, then he’s like, I’m just gonna take their soul and show them. And the other thing he calls it is going into the cookie jar, and that is where he reminds himself that he’s a king, you know, reminds himself, and that you like to say that when you do, in your poetry, and reminds himself of something he’s done in the past, and whatever. These are all mental tricks you can play with your brain to push you through that suffering. Absolutely, and you’re tapping into all these things.

43:26 I mean, you know, the, you know, I think, the beautiful thing was that I was, you know, I really wanted to get that REM moment, when I knew part of me would want to quit, you know, whenever, to the moment I would literally, I was just reminding myself, you know, why, why everything started, and, and mainly it would be Mike’s fiancée, you know, so I mean, another thing, she’s got a new partner now, and when I found out about that, you know, I, it was the same time that I was pretty much starting following the sagas, and so I would imagine, you know, like, this guy was I don’t know, the best, the greatest example of a man, you know, and I was, a woman, and I’d be like, okay, how do I get from being a worm, how do I stand it next to this guy now? By all admission, this guy is probably not close to even being the best example of a man, but for me at that time he had to be, you know, you had to be, to push me, to, you compete, for me to use him as constant inspiration.

44:31 So when I was carrying their thing at that time, I was just four, okay, I’m, I’m a little bit closer, but he’s still up there. Well, how bad you want to get there? And so, and that, all these little things that I have to keep doing, saying. And yeah, I mean, also people, I mean, I remember at one point around Faerieland, which was the hardest part, because it was nighttime now, and we saw some SAS dudes, they’re gonna make a movie about this death monument.

45:00 I mean, this is crazy, with all these characters. Yeah, and this is like seven, eight hours in, it’s nighttime now. You thought it would be over. I mean, I should say, I’ve got two Holborn before Farringdon, and when, literally started getting depressed, temperature dropped, and I started hyperventilating. I can’t catch my breath, and there’s my friend who’s here, no first, when he was working on trying to get me to control my breathing, but I couldn’t get around the control.

45:24 I would, but then he will go, and so then they were quite worried, you know? They were like, maybe we should stop, and I was like, no, no, no, no, let’s just do it, let’s just do it, let’s just do it, and then at one point they gave me a jumper, managed to control the breathing, and we walked again. And I mean, the thing is, you don’t, sound like I wasn’t in control. When I stopped my arms would drop by themselves, and then we had to stop, but is literally at that point, by the time I reached home, and I could no longer lift him up, so what they would do is put the log either side.

45:56 Prior to that there was a girl, she would lift him up and tell me you’re touching it. I’ve always, I can feel it when we got to, hope when she’d gone, so the guys had to lift up my hand and tell me I’m touching it, and then we will walk, and and I got to Farringdon, and that’s when we, we saw that. I say yes, and they were like, they can’t believe it. They were like, how long has he been carrying it, you know? And I had to go toilet with my friend, actually, funnily enough, my arms are gone, so I couldn’t even, I’m, I’m doing my trousers, so you have to do that for you.

46:26 Yeah, yesterday the SAS guys were impressed. Yeah, yeah. They couldn’t believe it when they said, yeah, here they were like, come on, yo, how far is he gonna go? And they told him, literally, just all the way down there, for about, in those two miles left. By that, I know, just like, come on, you know, and little does anyone know at this point that you have been crushing your own vertebrae with this sleeper, and that’s why your arms are going.

46:53 So I want to get to what happened afterwards, but for people that don’t know what was actually happening to make your arms go numb, basically, from what I understood from the surgeon, I forgot, I think it’s the C4-5 C4-C5 disc that pushed into my spinal cord, and the one below was following suit. There was a small fracture to the back of the neck, and the nerve was being compressed, and basically I mean I found out later how close I came. Actually, posted a video, and it’s good, but it’s urgent.

47:29 Spoke to me the other day, and he said that had had a gun, in a millimeter, two millimeters more, so not only would you be in a wheelchair, but you’d be in a wheelchair with, without use of your arms, and also paralyzed for the rest of your life. Yeah, if it was one or two millimeters further in. Something even said, if maybe even if you had not come, you know, if you’d left it a little bit longer, because I left it quite longer. I left it five days, five days.

47:54 Yeah, because I thought it would be, if I was the shoulder, right? I didn’t, I didn’t suspect the neck at all. All right, so you’re crushing your own nerves and your vertebrae and your spine, and that’s why your arms are going numb, but you keep going. Yeah, I mean, that happened, one and a half, I was in. I carried on for eight hours and 16 minutes after that.

48:15 Okay, talk to me about the last bit. Did you know you were gonna finish those last two miles, or was every step still a struggle? Or if you still, a struggle, you switched in your mind and you’re like, I’m finishing this no matter what. I think I mean, I’m not gonna lie, it became very, very hard, but once I got, I remember there was a point where I got around the Old Street, and I was like, that’s my bus stop. Well, I got this.

48:37 You know, this is my, hair, you know, and like, I remember I was walking, walking him literally matter of yards. Now and then, out of nowhere, this guy comes running behind me, gets underneath the sleeper to try and help me carry it, which was beautiful, a random stranger. So random, trying to help, but there’s so many random strangers. This is kind of crazy, and you had a great crew with you. Two guys with you, right?

49:01 It initially was two guys. Also, let’s not forget the bagpipes dude. Yeah, and, and also there was a girl, okay, who made us halfway there, and she would help us. She was helping me as well. Okay, and these guys were really pushing you the whole way.

49:14 Yeah, and it’s all on Instagram live, and they were really doing an amazing job. Yeah. So you finally finish, you get to where the seven points, your mom, art, where you started. You drop the sleeper. How do you feel?

49:28 Initially, like pain. I mean, after the pain, I was just ecstatic, just euphoric. I felt amazing, stuck. I couldn’t move our arms, and I mean, I’ve never felt anything like that, but I wasn’t too worried, because I thought, I’ll go home, you know. I’m not in an ambulance.

49:47 Oh, so, okay, you know, it’ll get better. And my friend, I remember my friend could, I think we got some honest bird or some food, and I couldn’t need it, so you had to literally had to feed me. And then he was like, no, I have to go. You’re gonna be cool. I’m good.

50:02 I’m home, you know. And so he left, and, and I tried to lock the door, and I gonna lock it. I literally, I had nothing in my hands, and so at the end, a child for like 20 minutes, so in the end I had to leave it. So I left my door open. I mean, it was shut, but if he just opened a handle, you could come in.

50:19 For a left, and I tried. I tried to go to the toilet. I couldn’t undo my trousers, and it was bad that I had to go, and I was trying my hardest, try my hardest, couldn’t do it, and basically just sold myself. Then I went, by then my feet were, my feet were bleeding. The injury that sustained my nail started in the, basically ripped apart.

50:44 Blood was coming from there, but I couldn’t tend to anything, because it’s not just the dexterity, but there’s no, there wasn’t any touch. I can feel objects in my hand, and so in the end I try everything. I tried, I was struggling, so I just went to bed, you know, and I laid down in bed and I put myself, everything would be better in the morning. As I fell asleep, woke up, and literally the bed was like covered in blood, urine is horrible, smell. And yeah, and then I was like, okay, I, okay, these arms are still the same, but I’ve, okay, you know, you carry that thing for a long time, it’s gonna take a few days.

51:21 So I kind of rationalized. Also, it’s a bank holiday weekend, so, okay. So I went up, I met up with a friend who was, so in the March, and we went to get some food in a pub, and I remember I was eating, and I couldn’t lift it up, so I was eating like a German Shepherd, you know, into the bowl. And at that time still I wasn’t worried, and I mean, it got to about Sunday, and still the same. I thought, okay, if I’ll see how I wake up on Monday, and then make a decision, then I woke up on Monday, and I thought to myself, like, my left arm was moving a little bit more, so, okay, you know, maybe it’s getting better.

51:58 But then you got to choose. Then I was like, I went to my mom and I said to her, look, I think I need to go to the GP. This is what’s happened, and she looked at me, and she could see how couldn’t move anything, and she’s like, okay, forget that, you need to go to A&E. So I went to A&E with my father, and literally they called us the next day, took an MRI. As soon as they saw the MRI results, they basically, three nurses came running to me to strap me in there for like call it surprises.

52:28 Yeah, brace, like a manga races. Yeah. Told me to lay down, and yeah, basically I think an hour after the, they put me on a spinal board, gone to an ambulance, driven to Queen Square, the, the neurological hospital there, and yeah, within, I think, within a couple of hours the doctor came to see me, and he was like, yeah, we’re operating tonight at midnight, and I was like, how, I was like, don’t I get time to, you know, to get a second opinion, think about it?

52:59 He said, look, that it’s too late, because right now you need this operation, because you’ve lost the luxury of being able to choose if you want to do it now or later. He said, I seriously suggest you do it, or what, because one thing I can guarantee you, you will not get better if you don’t have this operation, but it could also get worse. And so I did that. At the time I was speaking with a couple of friends on WhatsApp, and one of them is a physio, and he was like, whatever you do, don’t get the fusion, the cold fusion of the bones.

53:32 And so I asked the doctor what he was gonna do, and he said that’s exactly what he was going to do. And then I had my mom and my aunt, Ida, who don’t speak English, and my mom is the worst person to have in a crisis. She panics, so I’m dealing with that, this, people online, then I’m, you know, the doctor. I’m asking him what are the risks, and he says, well, one of the risks is that you can end up fully paralyzed. You might need a tracheotomy to talk through there.

53:59 So he’s telling me all these things. I’m trying not to react, because I don’t want my mom to pick up on it, and then she’s gonna panic, so she’s asking me, in our language, what did he say? I told mom, don’t worry, he said he’s done this a hundred times, no risk, the only operation that has no risk. She didn’t believe me, but I think she appreciated the effort. But yeah, in the end I was like, okay, I told him do it, and I messaged my friend, because the thing is, when I told him to do it, at that point I thought to myself, okay, I’m the type of person, I always prepare for the worst.

54:34 People mistake it for pessimism. It’s not, you know, I just, I hope things will happen. I hope, but really I must prepare myself mentally for being paralyzed. They’re sort of food to myself, okay, what happens if I end up there? What am I going to do?

54:51 What’s the next part of my life? I saw it, just started to visualize that and be okay with the idea. You know, I’m think, okay, I can do this. I can still, trying different things. Maybe Black Vikings can take a different direction, and so I started going through these fools in my head.

55:04 And if the people also don’t understand, you’re a serious martial artist. Like, if you watch the video, old videos, and soon to be the new videos, you’re doing some, you know, crazy Greco-Roman wrestling. You know, I mean, it’s stuff, I mean, it’s very serious what you do, right? I mean, I did, I did wrestling for a while. I, I don’t think I was the best, but I was fine.

55:25 I liked it. I was passionate about it, and I mean, that, the thing is, when I was doing all of that, it was the same time that I was run over. So it was, I think that also, I’ve gotten, oh yeah, I don’t think my body adjusted in the right way. So I think also, when this happened, I was carrying a lot of the old trauma into this, into this injury itself. Okay, so it’s midnight, you’re about to go into the surgery.

55:50 What do you think when they give you that, you know, when they try to go to knock you out, and you’re thinking, I might wake up paralyzed? What are you thinking? Well, I remember, prior, that I sent a message to my friend, and I told him, whatever happens, you know, I don’t know what way I’m gonna be, but carry on with Black Vikings, you know, because there’s two of us working at the moment, and then I just literally, I went in, and I remember they were asking me questions while they given me the stuff to put me under someone.

56:19 And say, sell all my stuff. Like, so you were basically saying goodbye. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, I don’t think you know, I think my mind would have still been there, but I think you can’t go through something like that and not alter your mind state. I don’t know what kind of person who would have been. Let me ask you, right, before you go into that surgery, are you ever thinking, why did I do the crucifixion?

56:39 Everyone said I’d, you know, believe, I don’t know. I had that, was never a regret, not when I was in, before the operation, not straight after when I woke up, and it was my birthday, my 41 years years on this earth, in a hospital bed and unable to move arms. Not when I was in the rehab, never once, because the way I saw it is, you know, like, I’ve tried for a long time with Black Vikings, and I said the most important thing. It’s not, when I say this, I don’t mean it how most people perceive it, but I’m not the important thing.

57:11 The important thing is Black Vikings, that must grow, and you can only do so much by just putting in work, and, you know, and passion. At some point a sacrifice must be made. You know, a risk must be taken. Now, when I say a risk, just because it’s a risk, it doesn’t mean it’s just willy-nilly. I went, picked up something, I moved out.

57:31 I’ve been preparing for the Crucifixion for a very long time. I’ve been doing death marches, training, doing those cold baths for a very long time. So although it was a risk, it was also a calculated risk, you know, but the whole point was to get Black Vikings to a point that had never been before, and he needed a sacrifice. Sometimes sacrifices can be mental, you know, sometimes physical, but for it to get there, something had to be made, and that’s what the Crucifixion was.

58:00 It raised money for Legion, but it also brought us together here. If it wasn’t for the Crucifixion, would I be here? You know, the documentary for Hall will become, we’ll be done soon. Amen. Another mental sacrifice.

58:14 I had this time at the sacrifice. I’m a very private person. I’ve always been, but before, about you know, masks, armor down, and just reveal yourself, and that’s nothing more frightening than that. But if I am NOT important, what’s important is Black Vikings and division, and I need to get it to a stage where you know, it can, it almost becomes its own entity, separate of me, where people can come in. It is a community where you know, no leader, just, just a community, you know.

58:46 And this is the first part of it. You have to be black to be part of the black, piles, you know, of course. That super cold buff. What’s that, with a cold bath? Okay, good, tell everyone.

58:58 Um, so you go in, mm, your eyes drop, you wake up. What happens first? The first thing I did was move my feet, and I don’t like my food. We moved, so, okay, the rest I can deal with. My arms went insane, condition, I don’t know why.

59:12 For some reason I thought that straight away I’d be able to move my arms, but I couldn’t move them, and I was stationed. I was at it. It went in through your neck, because when I can’t show you the hospital, you had this big old bandage on the front of your neck. I mean, it was not pretty looking, man. Okay, so my scar is mostly bad.

59:29 No, that’s about, you can’t, you can’t fill your arms. No. Basically I couldn’t. I mean, I was drinking from a straw, a couple of, his straw. I couldn’t you.

59:38 This one was completely, I mean, we’re talking zero, zero movement. I could move the hand, but there was no coordination. They will get stuck in this position. The numbness was like, I couldn’t hold any objects, so I had to rely on my left hand, which was a little bit better, but in the beginning I couldn’t bend. There was no elbow flexion, so I had to bring my head down to the fork, rub it in the fork to the mouth, and again that was me.

1:00:05 For yeah, what are those next few days like, being in the hospital? I mean, he initially wasn’t, it was okay, because, you know, I had so many guests coming. I mean, I had people from Legion. I had people from Instagram. You had random people you never met before, beautiful, coming by to see you.

1:00:20 Crazy, that’s crazy. You had people trying to send you money from America who’d never met you before. This is the weird thing. Yes, but it’s not so weird, right? But who is beautiful, you know?

1:00:30 That it, that somehow, and this is the exciting time right now, that you know, literally, me, which I haven’t traveled as much as I would love, you know, in my life, but from a, little, from a living room that I converted into a gym, in a block of flats, in all three. I’m reaching these people across the world, you know, and to, but not just to reach them, that you can see the video, but I’m actually touching them inside, a soul, and to me that was beautiful, you know. And I mean, I had somebody that brought some fruit, a book, the Joe Dispenza book, you know.

1:01:03 And, and then yeah, people wanting to send money. I mean, at the end of the thing, it was about seven or eight people from Instagram that came. But then the messages, at the point I always try to reply to all the messages, you know, in comments on Instagram, and I want my time. They, in the first few days I couldn’t. It was just too much, you know, so I had to I just, I read them, but I had to leave it there.

1:01:27 Also, writing was quite difficult. Yeah, but it was hard in the beginning, only at night, because I, the, would, a Queen Square was there. Only four beds on our side, but every single one had, which, so four with me, and the free evidence, every single one snored badly, like not even. And I’m a very light sleeper, you know. People were screaming as well.

1:01:50 Now that was it. Some penguins, I wasn’t addressed. Okay, so I was at Queen Square for, I think, about four or five days. I visited you in St. Pancras, right? Yes, and then you’re right next to the psychiatric ward, right?

1:02:01 Yeah, and it was hectic in there. It was a crowded room, then he was screaming at night, and it was, yeah, I mean, I’ve done a few videos there, whereas just screams in the background, you know. And I remember once I was talking to my sister when the first day I got there, and there was a woman, she was screaming, and my sis was like, where did they take you? Not like a hospital. She’s like, what kind of hospital?

1:02:22 Hospital, but I mean, it’s when I got, de, was the first thing I saw when I walked into St Pancras was a guy, and I’m no word of, like, a guy walked right by me with a blue, like crash helmet on, and I just looked around and I was like, maybe it’s the wrong place, because I know there’s a psychic world, you know, and then there’s a woman screaming, and then just, like, navigating is food. And I thought, okay, you know, so I was a little bit apprehensive. Then the smell, I mean, the smell hits you straight away, of just feces.

1:02:57 It’s strange, but I think within a couple of weeks, our Dean is smothered, anymore. It was so used to it, you know, but in the beginning it was hard in terms of that, and then, and then it became home, you know. You know, so much happening there. I wouldn’t even know what to start. I saw one of your posts, and you said, I wanted suffering, and so now I got exactly what I wanted, and I thought that was fascinating, because you went on this Crucifixion Saga, and you thought, okay, I’m gonna get my suffering, because that’s what I want, and then guess what, life gave you it.

1:03:28 Put you in a hospital when your arms aren’t working, with people screaming and smelling like feces, and guess what, now you have everything you wanted. And you were able to refrain that in the moment and say, this is a blessing, thank you so much, because this is gonna make me stronger, or as most people would just flip out and complain and say it’s not what they wanted, because it wasn’t the particular type of suffering they wanted. One thing is, one, you can’t really, you know, if you’re in control of suffering, it’s not really suffering.

1:03:56 You know, and the thing is, initially I thought that the saga, you know, the, the Crucifixion, that was the, the saga. It’s only much later, when somebody, men, you know, kind of mention it to me, is like, it’s almost like that wasn’t the real saga, and I, you know, like, this is the saga, you know. And I thought to myself, about for so many years, you know, I’ve been talking about struggle, suffering, and I thought to myself, you know, and boom, you’ve been given it, struggling, suffering.

1:04:24 Out of struggle and suffering, two things can happen, you know. In suffering, you know, you can either find God yourself or your own demise, you know, basically. Some people find God, and they grow from that. Some find themselves and become, and grow from that. Some never do, and this, and the remainder, but all the struggle is, is an opportunity.

1:04:44 Suffering is another, is something to master, like anything else, you know. And, and so the way I thought is, I just, so much, oh my god, imagine when I come out from this. You know, like, imagine the glory coming out of this. I mean, I’m not coming from just being, I’m, I’m, you know, I’m fit with my belly out. I mean, I’m talking, we’re talking like complete retraining of my body, you know, and a foot of the opportunity to come from there to where I want to be.

1:05:13 That’s all it is. It’s an opportunity. What’s it like when your arms aren’t working, because you post a lot of videos of you struggling with rehab? I mean, again, I’m amazed by the fact that you’re even moving that arm. Keep doing this, because it feels so good, right?

1:05:26 Because if you’re watching, like, they got class, doing all these little, like, they look like little kid exercises, like it’s like trying to stick a ball on a thumb, and he can’t do it, because his arm isn’t working. It’s like a claw, and it looks really frustrating. Yeah, what’s that like? I think it is, you know, like the nurse explained, the physio, like there’s nothing wrong with the brain. The brain is sending messages, no problem.

1:05:48 The muscle, there’s actually nothing wrong with it, the problem is the road between you. So my brain is sending these messages to perform this task, and my muscles are literally there’s no stimulation coming through there. So, so it’s just very frustrating to try it, especially the smooth, fine motor control, that that’s complete. We don’t, we all take that for granted. Oh my god, you don’t realize how much you need it, right?

1:06:12 You know, so touch, right, on for the feedback, right? You know, like I remember when I was there, and I was in the main hall, in some banquets where we met, and I was on my phone, you know, and I was doing some stuff, and then it was quite late, let me just go to bed, you know. And so I picked up my phone, and I went, and I went to bed, and I laid down on the bed, and as I laid down, I went to, right, around my phone, and it wasn’t there. I was like, I must have dropped it along the way, so I went back, retraced my steps.

1:06:41 I couldn’t find her, for somebody took it, so I’m going all these thoughts going through my head. I retraced my back, my steps back to the table, and flying it on the table. I never actually picked it up, but I could swear to you that I could feel the shape in my hand. I could feel literally the square of it, and so it’s just weird. I basically realized that I, you know, I constantly had to look at this hand if I wanted to use it, because as soon as I looked away, I don’t know what he was doing.

1:07:10 So I mean, even if I hold objects, even now I have to look at it just to know how much pressure to apply, right? And it was during this process I came to visit you, and we decided to create this documentary, yes, called Thor Hall. Yeah, and but to do so it meant you go in and open up about you, which is difficult, right? And, and I think, I think I told you, I said you got to get vulnerable. Yeah, you got to tell us the whole story and where you’re from, and then growing up, and all that, otherwise no one’s gonna understand, because no one wants to just necessarily see a tough guy that did a saga.

1:07:48 Yeah. Um, what’s been this process like for you, and why I call it Thor Hall? Okay, well, 404 whole, it’s a, you know, the hand of Ra hovers above lost lamps. It’s an acronym. Yes.

1:08:06 Ra, it’s obviously the sun, you know, and, and so it’s like, you know, there was a long time, a long period in my life that I was lost, you know, and I thought everything was hopeless. I looked at things that I didn’t have, you know, and I don’t have this, or I don’t have that, and I complained a lot, you know, bitched a lot, and I think you have the sun above your head, you know, and so as long as the sun is above your head, there’s hope, you know. And it took a long time for me to understand that, you know, that I don’t know, I don’t know whether it’s, it’s just, it was the worm mentality, you know, that I was somehow, that I was owed something, you know, that that are poor, you know, that pity wallowing in pettiness, there, you know, that I hate, you know, I hate it.

1:08:54 Now I can’t stomach it, even when I see it in others, because it reminds me of me, you know. And I’d almost, I, I just try not to think about a part of me, but, but I know it’s important to have some fragments of it as a constant reminder. But yeah, it’s, yeah, and what has making the documentary brought up from your past? And what am I talking about? Well, what’s what’s, what’s been getting vulnerable?

1:09:23 What are you been doing? Well, with the vulnerability of its release, you know, it’s with my life, with my relationship with my father, which, I mean, it’s poverty is probably the most important catalyst to everything, you know, to everything that’s happened afterwards. And I never had a good relationship with him, and we had a complicated one. I would say he was a different man when he was younger. I’m happy to say, with you know, recently, well, about a year, we kind of addressed all our issues, and I chose to kind of, like, forgive and forget, just for the benefit of my niece and nephew, and my family.

1:10:03 But it’s some stuff that, all this, luck, and never really forget, but you know, I had to revisit all these kind of stories. And, and revisit, even, you know, first coming into this country, I had to revisit, you know, race, racism. It’s always been such a big part of my life. Is that because you spent time in Naples? In Naples, it was a different Italy, you know.

1:10:25 It’s probably the most institutionally racist country on earth, you know. Like, I mean, it’s terrible, what black people have had to put up with in Italy, and I can tell you firsthand. And so, I mean, my time there, I mean, luckily I was lucky that I was young, so I was treated more like an exotic pet, you know, than any form of violence. What was it like growing up? Because you grew up in Napoli, and there’s pretty rough down there.

1:10:51 You’ve got the Camorra crime family, some places that are just open-air drug markets, in its, rough, right? Very rough, very rough. You know, it’s not, police, is a place of, you know, beauty and, and crime, and, to death, that go hand in hand, you know. But I mean, I would, like I said, I was lucky that I left. I left when I was 12 years old, you know.

1:11:14 And, but I mean, it probably a good time, because it was towards the end. I would skip, I would be skipping school, you know, hanging around, you know, with the kids, and I could see what I, road would have taken me, but I would have started working for the gangs. I mean, everybody has different, I mean, I’ve got some friends that are in the Camorra there, older acquaintances that I know. I’ve gone that route. Some have gone the route of drugs.

1:11:39 Some, the lucky ones have left, but in terms of hope, there’s no much hope, you know, in the south, but the people are beautiful, you know. Once I get to know you, they look past that, you know, so, like, is mostly you know, people that don’t know you. So, for example, in my neighborhood, like everyone knew me, and I was, generally I was cool with everyone. He’s still getting two fights and stuff, you know, but it’s almost like the mentality, they’re like, you know, he’s black, by his, our black boy kind of thing, you know.

1:12:09 And so it is still kind of racist, but I’m sorry, it’s not the worst kind, but the really, the first turn in terms of violent racism from when I came to this country, you know. And I was, tell people, I mean, this very area itself was very different, very, very different. This is 20 years ago, more than 25 years ago, about 1990 onwards, 90, okay. And what was it like? I mean, off the top of my head, I can think of about seven gangs in this area.

1:12:37 One was, was cool. I mean, they’ll rob you, to beat you up, but just because they don’t know you. Whereas the other ones, it literally be like a black thing, you know, and I was the only black kid of my age, the age group, and yeah, so we spent, I had to run, I had to fight. And I remember this one instance, I was cool. They caught me.

1:12:59 I was basically with some friends, and we were in Hoban, and there’s some football pitches there, but it’s like, basically, you have to go through this huge park, you go through, and at the end there’s four football pitches, and we were playing on one, seven of us, the United Nations, as they called us, and then the other three or four football pitches, there’s about ten people each, and all of a sudden we noticed, a stop playing, and about ten of them came over with this black kid, and they brought the black head to me, and they were like, oh, you know, sorry for the language, we said yeah, he said, your mom’s a, and as soon as he said that, I knew basically what I want. I want to see the two black guys fight, and so I was like, you know, I just walked away.

1:13:41 I was like, it doesn’t matter, and I walked off, and it still pursued me, and so I took the black guy aside, you know, I was like, really? You do not see what I’m trying to do. They just want to see the two black people fight. And I, and I got to him, you know, this is like, oh yeah, you’re scared, you’re scared, and he walked off. Okay, trouble, evade it, and then yeah, we started to walk out, and as we walked out got the whole of them.

1:14:04 I mean, we’re talking about forty or people put me around in a circle, and one came in, and I remember it was a sunny day, and it was shining, and Dr. Cedar, like light reflected, you know, where there were holding hammers, knives, and they were lunging forwards from all sides. So as I’m watching all these people, one hits me, and I drop down, and I don’t remember the press, but apparently they were stomping on my head, hitting me with a hammer and all sorts. And then this is divine intervention again.

1:14:33 But years prior, maybe, yeah, a year or so prior, I’d saved this little black kid from getting beaten up in my area, and that he introduced me to his cousin, and his cousin came up to me, a huge, massive guy from Birmingham, and he thanked me, you know, like, thank you for looking after my cousin. I said there’s no problem, and in that very day, in the park, when I’m sprawled out on the floor getting my heart served to me, he steps in a circle, you know, and because it is so big, huge, muscular black as night, and I think they were kind of, you know, and he picks me up, and I recognize his face, and he tells me, get to the gate, turn left, and keep running, and I literally got that. I ran all the way back to the Angel, you know, and I mean, that could easily be me, that would mean my life’s done, you know, so.

1:15:24 Once again, divine intervention. It keeps coming. That’s intense, man. Yeah, and other stuff you had to come to terms with as you’ve been making this documentary. What were you thinking, because you had a lot of time to think?

1:15:35 Yeah, I mean, I, you know, in terms of, really, was more thinking the vision I had, you know, I’m prepared, doing a lot of physio to get better and to be able to return to what I could do. But it’s also a part of me that’s preparing, because I feel like I said I always prepare for the worst, and there’s a part of me that’s kind of preparing, okay, for the eventualities that maybe I don’t return to what I was. You know, what can I do? And so I’ve been writing a lot, you know, which is my first love, but but then I don’t know, just really scoped in a vision, in terms of, you know, wanted to build Sacred Ground, by inland, you know, and I have to complete the service in whatever state I do, but I mean, I start training for the seventh saga tomorrow, tomorrow, and the seventh saga is basically 100 consecutive rounds, but I won’t be doing that for at least three years, but it starts today, so I’ll only be doing boxing rounds, your work.

1:16:38 I mean, I can move this hand, my legs are good, I can work on head movement. Oh yeah, so the sagas continue? Yes. Alright, you better power up your phone, because I’m gonna need a few poems before we can finish this. You need help with me?

1:16:51 None of that. You got it. So you’ve got a few sagas planned, and you told me before, you did the Crucifixion Saga, that you were going up to Scotland to go out in the Highlands alone with, like, whatever food you could carry. So what do you call those sagas? Well, that’s the long saga.

1:17:08 So the first one is, it will be in August, deferred, third week in August, and I go to Scotland for five days. Five days, no food, no, it’s the Irish Alps, so no food, no water, but basically no phone, no technology. I will set up a GoPro, I literally leave it there and forget about it, and basically I need to try and do no distraction, be by myself for five days. What’s gonna happen? A lot of internal, and internal journey.

1:17:41 The whole point of the long saga is, with, you know, with the, I roll, you know, we was an hour’s journey to death marches, an hour journey. The long saga is more about journeying inward, and to really, you know, find out more, because I’m not going to pretend that I’m a finished product. There’s still so much I need to address, and like I said, it’s a journey, and I think, I’ll, glow is part of the worm, will always be in there, but I need to try and, you know, keep it not only keep it at bay, but try and minimize its existence.

1:18:14 And so I think the reflection that I will get, you know, will be immense. This, I mean, the five days, it’s not much, but in October I go for two weeks. Just remember, every saga has three attempts. So in October, why does every saga have three attempts? Because they came to you in a vision?

1:18:31 Because well, some of them come to me in a vision, but also it’s the fact, like I said, instinctively we are naturally cautious, you know. It’s, you know, you almost, if you find, if there are no cautious, is because the almost exceptional, say, in a way, or you’re trained in that way, but generally we are cautious, being, you know. So even you see when this cold water, nobody just dives in, you know. You kind of put your foot in to pull it up, right? You’re trying to.

1:18:58 So that’s the whole point, so the three attempts of the saga is a way of you overcoming your own brain. Yeah, because you probably wouldn’t have finished the Crucifixion if you hadn’t have done the previous, to know it was too hard, right? Posture, but you knew you had done it in four with 40 kilos. How was you and, and you, and what you’ve done before? Okay, I know this world.

1:19:16 I’ve done it. I’m not, every step I’ve walked up path, you know, I mean, it’s almost a pilgrimage. I’ve done it softer, and so on. I knew that it can be done. It’s just gonna be, whereas if everything had been new, I don’t know, and it, that was the first attempt.

1:19:32 I don’t know, so. But with the long saga, the hardest one would be in March, because March, Scottish, whoever, is not very great in March, I imagine, and also it would be in that era, sure, Alps, and it would be 31 days. 31 days. So I mean, I don’t even think I can record all of it, because unless I’m, unless I can bring some battery packs or something, but I want to kind of get away from that. I want to just literally, you know, be alone, and yeah, really journey inward.

1:20:00 Okay, and that terrifies me, you know, because for a long time I was, I will refer to myself, you know, that you know, I’m alone, you know, that kind of, you know, self-pity. And then I realized most people are finding along, they’re not really alone. If you live in the city, you know, you have your phone, you’re not alone. That’s a distraction, you know, everything is, it’s a distraction. To truly feel alone, go in the wilderness, you know, and be alone.

1:20:27 That’s alone, you know, no distraction. Oh, book, no pen to entertain with, no training, literally just, I don’t know what I’m gonna do. Fine. Well, yeah, so five days, two weeks, and then 31 days in March. Yeah, then, and then that concludes the alongside, alone saga.

1:20:46 Okay, you got, you got poetry for that. That’s the turnaround. And then after that you’ve got the thousand rounds. It’s gonna be 1000, now, a lot, sorry. After that is the fifth saga, which is to go to mountain, or climb Mount Elbrus.

1:21:01 Okay, Mount Elbrus is there, saying, I don’t know if you follow Greek mythology, but Prometheus, okay, who was, you know, he gifted mankind, you know, gave the gift of fire, and he was supposedly tied to Mount Elbrus, and an eagle would come every day, Picot Scott, yeah, so that smelled, overs, okay. So yeah, I’ll climb Mount Elbrus, then I’ll come back, then trying Kilimanjaro, then Everest, but that could be, you know, that trilogy, cool, of many months, many years. But the whole point is I’m not gonna wait, you know.

1:21:38 If I can do the start, harvest, harvest, I will do that. Okay. And then we had other sagas as well after that. Then we’ve got what a suffer, the surface alga, which is basically 1000 hours of suffering, which, for like all sagas, had generally to generate money for charity, but 1000 hours. I want to basically, I want to explore swimming, which has been a great fear of mine.

1:22:05 I want to explore running, which I haven’t believed on. I used to be very good at running prior to my car accident, but it’s something that I wanna only discover. I mean, there was a race called a Mongol 100, which somebody, you know, asked me to race, you know, and so thinking, and my visit stuff like that, but basically it’s a thousand hours, and I will, usually, let’s say you do a race in the last 50 hours, you take it out of a thousand, and you keep going until you come down to zero.

1:22:33 Okay, yeah. And the seventh saga, 100 rounds of boxing. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, I’m gonna have to introduce you to Goggins. I’m sure you guys can find, and be interesting, find some races to get into.

1:22:47 All right. Now I know I’m putting you on the spot with poetry, but that’s my job, right? Okay. How many do you want? I don’t know, pick a few of your favorites.

1:22:56 Okay, then you’ve been writing this stuff for years, right? For a very long time. I’ve selected some for today. Okay. Okay.

1:23:09 A warrior is not born. He is the sum of the sacrifices he has made. Modern-day society has sought to tame man, and we sculpt him into a submissive, subservient creature, inebriated him with lofty desires he scarcely needs, nor will aid him in a guy’ll attempt to extinguish the last embers of his fiery past. The quest is first for glory, with possessions. They have appeased him with promises of security, in laws and the illusion of order.

1:23:44 They’ve taught him to be defenseless and benign. A warrior must never forget that beneath the thin veil of civility lies chaos and savagery, and that all he holds dear, and this manufactured life, hangs on a thread. Security is an illusion. It’s nice, fun, that’s good. Yes, I have a few of those now.

1:24:15 This one, suffering. These are more meditations and poems, but suffering is a harsh teacher, and how she would love for you to graduate her class, but how can you, if you never attend? In suffering, man will find Eve, himself, God, or his own demise, and those that will shield you from suffering, we can, you, with what they believe to be a kindness. That’s big. You’re talking about earlier, yes.

1:24:44 You got some of your poems were you talking about, with a crown made of bone? You know, you reference that a bunch of times. Do you have any of those? Because, of course, one, of course, then, because you talk about that sometimes, and I’m always curious, curious about it, and I’m always visualizing it. I don’t know.

1:25:00 Do you have one with that? I want you to talk about it. Yeah. Okay, this one actually is called For Home Door Hall. They flash gold, I want bone.

1:25:09 They talk peace, I scream war, I seek lest they want more, they want gold, I want bone. They crave cars and fine clothes. There will be a blade of grass, as the wind blows. I want bone, a bare, I mean a fast horse, a sharp axe, a bone, thrown. Five orphans with no homes of their own, a bone crown, 100 acres for my wolves to roam, and the 7th August to live on well after I’m gone.

1:25:38 I will sue as they wield words. They have dogs, I have wolves, beasts, a foam from their muzzle when they guard my abode, because they young flesh are a bone. They drink blood, are no bones to college digestif, and collects skulls for the hood, ultra gods, and they lose it. It is only death to remote, and they won’t. Gold, that’s a sea glory where they see.

1:26:02 Go, I seek less, but they need more. They need money, but I want poem still, a work in progress. I like it. Deep, deep. Yeah.

1:26:14 And one of your other poems you talked about, act as if you are protected by angels with armored wings, with armored wings. That comes up a lot in your poem, right? What does that mean? It’s like, you know, like, you know, when you’re a child, and I mean, the other day I took my niece to the park, and this is a huge structure, and without even batting an eyelid, she got to the top and jumped off, you know. Kahless, and then I’m, we’re over like that, you know, when we’re young.

1:26:44 But then as you become older, I don’t know what happens. We become more cautious, and you worry a lot about what could happen, the worst thing that could happen. What about the best thing that can happen? You know, what about the growth that could happen? So it’s like, you know, like nothing.

1:27:02 You cannot attain anything if you don’t risk. At one point you can do all your little all the different methods you want, but at one point you will need to take a risk for anything. Anybody that’s ever attained anything worth having, a risk. He took a risk, she took a risk, at some point, and something has happened, but most people don’t, you know. And I, I, totally imagine.

1:27:25 Okay, let’s say you know, those, you have 10 angels behind you with armored wings, and they were protecting you. Would you do it then? You know, you find me. Yeah, yeah. What?

1:27:35 I’ll do it then. Well, then just picture them and go and do it, you know, but that’s the whole point. Is, you know, don’t you know, like, I remember you posted something, you’re on your Instagram, where we, the video we took together, and like an idiot, I shouldn’t do it, but I do it sometimes, when I’m, both, I’m gonna read comments, you know, so. But anyway, I’m good. Suffering, oh, her, than just the p4a stupidness that I heard, you know, and like people saying, oh why would anyone deliberately do that to themselves?

1:28:05 All these stupid, right? Why would you take the NHS time? Does it make you feel the Vegas party is, you know, like my, I’m not gonna like the initial reaction. I have to control myself, because my initial reaction was, the worm, we don’t want you to react, and how does that worm react? Just like, you know, bitter, angry, you know, like defensive.

1:28:24 No, like, no, no, no, no. I was like, okay, let’s examine it. So I was like, that’s exactly what cowards do, you know. They, they, I love how they either take somebody and elevate them, like, oh no, well, he’s something special, he’s unique, you know, to be able to do that. Oh, this RI is crazy.

1:28:40 And all they’re doing, it’s not about these people. It’s just about it, any way in which they can appear like, oh, you know, like it’s just, it’s not because they could do it. You know, anybody can do it, but it’s easier to point to somebody else and say, that’s exceptional athlete, and that’s why he’s able to do that, rather than just point to themselves and say, I’m a coward, I’m not willing to try things. And that’s the point, you know. I’m not good.

1:29:04 I’m not the strongest by far. Literally, I’m not fast, I’m not the most flexible, but I’m willing to try things. You know, I said things, even with every saga I said it, and then I think the future class worried about it, and literally I post it. Once I posted it, I know I have to do it, so I say yeah, let future class worry about it, and then when I get to the day, I figure, cos Klaus, man, you mess me out, man, but they’re not gonna do with it, you know.

1:29:28 So, and I think so caught me, I know it was just them being cowards, you know, them justifying it in their heads, you know, for what, for what things that they don’t do. The fact that I have to either be crazy, or what I’ve done is cost money. What about the money I’ve raised over, over, over my time, you know? I mean, both. So in the end I’ve responded, but I wasn’t rude, I wasn’t aggressive.

1:29:52 I just stated my points, and I think free came back, and they were like, yeah, sorry, we hope you get better. But it’s interesting, cuz you know, I had David Goggins in here, and in his book, Can’t Hurt Me, he says repeatedly in the book, I’m not some superhero, I’m not some badass. I came from this horrible life where I was beaten, and I was put down, and I had to deal with racism, and I was stupid, and I was physically inept, and I did all these things.

1:30:20 So he said the book is about you, not about me, and any and that he doesn’t want people to put him on a pedestal, because then they don’t have to be responsible for their own life’s, what they do. Exactly, I got exactly that. That’s the thing. You know, it’s easier for them to justify within their minds that somebody must be exceptional or crazy. Yeah, oh, crazy, so really, you’re just, know, caught you.

1:30:42 You do want to take risks. You’re afraid of what could happen. You’re afraid that you’re not gonna be able to do it, but how do you know? You know, start, and that’s the whole point. I was coworkers.

1:30:53 I think everyone should. I think, you know, like, you look in African cultures, and you have, like, rites of passage, you know. And I mean, even me, I want to benefit greatly if at the age of 15, 12, 13, somebody had taken me for something like that. I wasted so many years of my life, you know, just, I mean, with the repercussions of living my dreams of my youth, and then even you know, just dealing with, you know, trying to figure out who was I, what kind of man I was, and I didn’t have a father to show me things.

1:31:22 As soon as I started liking girls, size sleeping goes, oh my god, must be a man. No, no. I mean, being a man is more than just the passage of time, you know. And I think and that’s the problem. We don’t have service, you know.

1:31:36 We do. Why don’t we have service? And this is what the hope instant with acquiring Sacred Ground. What I want to do is establish the installation of sagas as rites of passage, because you know, it’s a, it’s a rebirth, homeless from childhood, from things that were childhood base, to manner, and from manhood to kingship, you know. And what’s a crown of bone?

1:32:04 A bone is not a crown of gold, you know. Gold is never understood the thing with gold, you know. It’s like, I mean, it has no real value, other than, I mean, as a currency it’s quite useful, because obviously, you know, like, you couldn’t have copper, for example. Who told you? I mean, I can understand its value in that sense, but it has no real value.

1:32:26 It’s only the value that we give to it. We all say it’s valuable, so therefore it’s valuable. Well, I think bone is far more valuable, you know, in terms of bonus, bonus nature, bonus death, bonus life, you know. And it’s more a return to, you know, to getting away from things that sparkle, you know, and the more of a, I don’t know, more of an ancient, natural routine, you know, rooted in nature. That kind of crown.

1:32:56 So being a king of struggle, you know, and that’s why I always refer to it. I think people think I’m all that. One guy actually sent me a bone, which is brilliant, really. The one is made of bones. There’s some dude sent it.

1:33:10 I don’t think it’s bone, it’s made of something. I’m actually gonna do, window is probably somebody can make one for me, you know. One thing, this is really obvious, is that you’re doing something right, Klaus. No, no, and you must feel it, because to have random people, most people can’t get their family to visit them in hospital, right? And you get random people from Instagram coming to stop by and see you, and I don’t know, this should be a feedback to you that you’re doing something right, and like you said, it’s all about the sacrifice, and you got to show me, don’t tell me.

1:33:40 Yeah, and I think people see what you’re doing, and they see it comes from a good place, and they’re like, you know what? You’re reminding us of what we need to be as humans. Yeah, and that sacrifice for the Crucifixion, you’re right, it got you in this chair, you know, and we had, we kind of knew each other before, but it was, you almost getting paralyzed that kind of created this friendship, and now we’re making you this documentary with Thor Hall. Yeah, we’re gonna premiere it on London Real.

1:34:08 We’ll probably do it live, might do a Q&A here afterwards, or something. Good. So, and we’re gonna go deeper into the story. We also got footage from the Crucifixion itself. Wait until you see the stuff, it’s just crazy with the poems and more of your backstory from Napoli and all that stuff, and, uh, and so you know that must feel good.

1:34:25 Yes, I mean, you know, it’s been a long time that I’ve been at this, you know. It’s been, I would say, it’s been a 10-year journey, you know, and I mean, in that ten years, Black Vikings, the name has changed three times, the logo has changed four times, you know. The, I mean, there’s been ups and downs. I’m not gonna pretend that I’ve been consistent all the way through. I’ve quit, you know, sometimes for a year, sometimes for two days, sometimes three weeks, but I can never stay away for too long.

1:34:56 I always came back, but the whole point is, you know, like I’ve been going at this for a long time, a long time, and there was a point when I was bitter, you know, almost like, why isn’t it, you know, why isn’t it working? You know, like, why don’t I get, almost, one thing: recognition. You know, and that was a weak mentality, you know, because the test wasn’t it. Yes, because the thing is, to be honest, one thing I realize is, good thing I didn’t get any recognition then.

1:35:25 Good thing I didn’t make it then, because I was completely unprepared. You know, sometimes the worst thing than not succeeding is succeeding too early, you know, and if that happened, then oh my god, it would be the worst thing that happened to me, because you wouldn’t have evolved. I wasn’t ready. My mind state was in here. The sagas won in place.

1:35:43 Nothing was really there. Everything, you know, I was going through what I’ve cool. You know, I think I read the Mastery. I don’t know if you’re ready. Yeah, yeah, but it talks about the apprenticeship years, you know.

1:35:53 And those were the apprenticeship years, you know, when I was growing understanding this organic thing that I was trying to create, that was constantly shifting and changing, and I didn’t know, you know, what exactly was going to be. And I have a clearer vision now, but it’s young. I just feel it’s been a long time that I’ve been waiting for something like this to happen, but it now, that is slowly, things are starting to happen. I can tell you it has happened exactly at the right time.

1:36:20 It had happened, and generally things always work like that. They happen when they need to happen. The only thing that, yeah, reminds me of my journey with London Real a little bit, you know. Like, years ago I was like, this isn’t happening. Like, what am I doing?

1:36:33 This is stupid. I’m banging my head against the wall, waiting for the wall to break. Yeah, really. And I think it did break, or my head broke. I don’t know, but it was asking me, how bad do you want it, and are you doing this for the right reasons?

1:36:45 If you’re doing it for success, yeah, then maybe that’s not the right reason. But if you’re doing this to do something good or to test yourself, or to put out great messages, well then you deserve to continue. So, life there was a lot of challenges. That is sometimes, and it’s not supposed to happen the way you want it, and they say you don’t always get what you want, you get what you need, and I know what that’s like, you know. And, and, you know, there’s another one of my guests, has a book called AAB, The Obstacle Is the Way.

1:37:14 His name is Ryan Holiday. It’s a great book, but very tired. Yeah, and he’s got two tattooed on his arm as well. And, and we, now, first hear that. I’m like, now I can’t be the way, and then the more you meditate on it, you’re like, oh, maybe that is the way, and then the more you meditate on it, you realize that’s the only way.

1:37:28 And that’s something that you kind of show. Yeah, you know, going for that suffering. So, mm-hmm. I appreciate that. Final thoughts?

1:37:35 Yes, from you on everything. Future Black Vikings, future. For now, I mean, I have to, I’m going to physio, so I’m training with two different phases at the moment, and basically just trying to regain as much as I can in my independence. I’ve regained a lot, but if I can move back to be living by myself again, there’ll be a step in the right direction, and then really just completing the sagas, and just, yeah, just growing Black Vikings. You know, I love it.

1:38:11 Yeah. All right. Well, we’re still working on the documentary anyway. Thor Hall, is it almost done? No, anyway.

1:38:16 Yeah, so, well, that we’ll have more information on that coming soon. If you are interested in Thor Hall, all you want to know more about it, leave us some comments here, and we’re gonna get back to everybody as far as when we’re gonna premiere. And they can follow you on Instagram, Black Viking London. Right, back in London. Yeah, it’s good stuff, and you can go back and see a lot of the pictures and the videos, and you can even see me on there.

1:38:37 Yeah. When we’re talking about the sagas, I think if you go back far enough, you go back to about five years ago. Okay, going, and you can see a lot of all this crazy hardcore training that Klaus was doing, which first caught my eye in the gym, because, like I said, not many people are in there doing that gangster. And when you see it, you’re like, okay, this, so that guy knows what he’s, that guy is doing something intentional. Yeah, that’s not common.

1:38:59 It’s against the grain. He’s not worried about what it looks like, he’s worried about what it’s doing for him, and that’s why I like to train. Two-minute functional, it’s nasty, it’s dirty, it’s painful. Warriors. Yeah, warrior, that’s what it’s all about.

1:39:13 So, look, dude, thank you so much. Thank you for putting your life on the line and doing these crucifixions, and thanks for coming in here, representing, and I’m just happy to be a part of this documentary, and I look forward to everything you’re doing, and stay strong, you’re doing great things. Thank you very, class, and thanks.