John Wayne - The Gunslinger

Full transcript: John Wayne Parr on London Real

3:56 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is John Wayne Parr, aka the Gunslinger, who is an Australian kickboxer fighting out of Boonchu Gym in Gold Coast, Queensland. You are the former 10-time world champion and with a runner-up on the television reality show The Contender Asia, which I distinctly remember watching. Wayne, welcome to London Real.

5:20 Thank you. Thank you for having me. This is amazing. This is very cool. Yeah, my pleasure to have you here. I know we were chatting like a year, year and a half ago. You kind of come through London. We missed it.

5:27 So I’ve been really wanting to have you on for a long time. You know, when I started training Thai boxing, like in kind of 02, 03, 04, 05, I was just learning about the sport. But like your name came up and you were like one of the few white guys that was talked about at the same class as some of the Thai fighters. And I was still green then, but I just remember you. And so thanks for being here.

5:50 And also you just had your 125th fight last week. Yes. You’re 40 years old. Yes. You won. Yes.

5:57 Congratulations. Yes, thank you. What does it feel like to do that? Yeah, it’s amazing. I have so much passion for the sport and I wanted to ride the wave for as long as I can, be injury free and getting in front of the crowds.

6:14 And I’m addicted to the crowd, to the rush. So to be injury free and still be able to do what I do and still be able to compete with the top guys and win. Yeah, I feel very blessed. Very lucky. And you retired a couple times. Once. Once. 2013. Yes.

6:33 And did you really think that was it at the time? I think I just got stale. I’m running the same run every day, doing the same pads. 25 years, just exhaustion. I just needed a break because I was, got to the stage where it became a job.

6:53 I lost the passion, but it was just work. And it’s like, oh, the grass is greener on the other side. And maybe I’ll do this or do this. And then once I had that little bit of a break, I realized going to the fights and watching my students fight and watching people get scoring a knockout and seeing the, the, the enjoyment. And someone winning is like, Oh, I miss that feeling. I miss that rush. I can’t sit back and watch this. I got to get back in there myself. So that, that drove me to get back into the gym and, and have a look at it from a different angle and remember why I was training and why I was fighting.

7:29 And that’s why I do it now. I don’t do it because I have to do it. I do it because I want to do it. And I think I have more passion for my training now. So it’s fun. I love it.

7:38 So you actually needed to take that time off to kind of fall in love again with the sport. Yes, exactly. Yes. And just that, that little break was the realization that this is what I was put on this planet to do was to beat people up. Do you think a lot of people do that in their life where they fall in love with something and they go to do it and then after a while they forget why they’re doing it. Yes.

7:59 And then maybe they need to remove themselves in order to find out if they still love it. Yeah. I remember being a kid, being a young teenager and then trying to do a jumping kick on the back or trying to do something new and then you’d fall over or you’d look silly and then you’d practice and practice and then all of a sudden you mastered it. And then, and then taking that into the adulthood, all of a sudden it’s all business and I’ve got to be strong and I’ve got to be hard and I’ve got to have.

8:25 And then, but when you take a back of step and go, well, I want to get a kid again. I want to have fun. I want to switch my legs and I want to do something crazy and I want to be silly. And that’s when it’s fun again. That’s when you’re pushing your boundaries and you might fall over, but you get up, you touch yourself off and you’re going to jump higher this time.

8:46 So yeah, it’s an, and then if you can, if you can inspire other people to want to have fun, then yeah, you’re, you’re, you’re, the martial arts is such a crazy thing where everyone feeds off. If you have good excitement and good passion, other people want to be in the same room as you and they want to train beside you and they want to, they want to have the exactly same fun that you’re having. I want to try and spread that love of the martial arts all across the world if I can.

9:16 You just said the word silly, fun and love. And when people look at you and look at your record and stuff, I think most people that don’t know martial arts that well are like, wait a second, this guy’s supposed to be the hard fighter. But you’re talking about these concepts like fun and silly. Yeah, it’s, it’s, I’ve learned, a gentleman called San Chai, who’s a really famous toeboxer, I had all these fights and I went back to Thailand and I was getting ready for this fight and I was kicking the bag.

9:41 Rawr, rawr. And he just gave me a tap on the shoulder and he goes, you look so stiff. Have fun. Go back to the old days of being a kid again. And I thought, you know, you’re right. What am I, I’m trying to be this. And once I started relaxing and then started to experiment with different moves and then the enjoyment started coming through again.

10:03 And it’s like, oh yeah, that’s right. I can do this. I can do this. Yeah. And you might, you might, what you do on the bag, you might not do on the ring, but at least in your head, hey, I can do that.

10:12 I can, I can take myself out of my comfort zone. I can do a jumping knee or a jumping back kick or a spinning kick and be like a Jackie Chan on the TV. It’s not, might not be effective, but at the same time, it’s, it’s pretty cool when you can pull it off and show the boys and get a, get a bit of a giggle from everyone. Because this might be, you might not use it at the same time. They might not be able to do it either. So, but if you can do it, go, whoa, look at that.

10:35 Yeah. Yeah. I want to, I want to be that guy that’s like, wow, I want to try and emulate him. I think that silly test is like a good test that everybody should take. Like if you’re not comfortable being silly in what you do, you probably are at that point where you’re not enjoying it anymore and you’re taking it too serious.

10:51 And like I trained martial arts for a long time and like late, you know, I’ve been doing break dancing and stuff. And I think sometimes you do martial arts long enough and as a young man, you’re like, I gotta be tough and I gotta be hard and I gotta kick the bag in this way only. And so for me, this new movement, I feel like I kind of express myself a bit more. Yes. I was, I was felt limited a bit, I think when I was fighting and maybe just cause I hadn’t snapped out of it, but it should be fun, right?

11:14 Yes. I’m very lucky. I have very good pad holders where nothing’s called. So they hold the pads and I’ll throw a punch and I’ll catch it. I’ll go punch kick and I’ll catch, boom. So they can read my body language without, without a sense.

11:29 So I’m, I create my own combinations and knowing that my pad man is going to be there. So I like to call it cause it’s a martial art. And then I believe that when I’m doing the pads, I’m creating my own blank canvas. So I want to create a masterpiece. Every time I’m doing the pads, the people watching, they’re like, whoa, I can’t, I can’t.

11:51 My pad was amazing. His name’s Kevin Dick from New Zealand. And then I can go from left to right, the double left to triple and jumping. And he’s, he’s like an octopus. He’s got eight limbs. He can catch everything I throw.

12:03 But yeah, but instead of being that same pattern and saying boring routines, today I might go one, two, three, and then tomorrow I go one, two, three, four, and then I’m at one, two, three, three. And then, and every day I’m throwing something new to try and, it might work, it might not work, but unless I throw it, I don’t know if it does or not. And then the more variations I can have in my combinations, the harder it is for, to be predictable. Right. And so you’re painting a canvas even time, even when you’re training, not even the fight. You’re just playing around, doing this.

12:33 How can I maximize as much power as possible from, from every single limb and to, to, and, and have balance that if I can do it once, I can flow into another left leg, or straight into a knee or into an elbow. And then, and then being at a safe range where I can step away and not lose my balance. So yeah, it’s like trying to be the gazelle, a violent gazelle. What do you think about this new change in a lot of fighters, where they’re going after these movement coaches and movement people, Carlos Condit, Conor McGregor with Ido Portal that’s been here.

13:08 I know Ido, I’ve spoken to him many times. You’re an old school guy. You still run, I think 20 kilometers a day. You’re, you, you stick to the book. You’re like, this is what worked in my many years in Thailand. This is what got me to be a champion 10 times. This is what I’m going to keep doing.

13:22 What do you think, honestly, when you see guys doing lizard walks and on the rings and doing balancing on one leg, what are your thoughts? Amazing. I think every single person is a different individual. What works for some people might not work for others. I’m, like you just said, mentioned I’m very old school.

13:39 So what worked in Thailand, I just take, I took that system and brought it back to Australia and I’m winning fights. So I’m not in a hurry to change because my system is working, but I see other guys doing it and there’s nothing but pure strength. I’m actually jealous. You see Conor McGregor doing the muscle ups on the rings in the park and just using their body weight is like, I think that’s even if not fighting, it’s very impressive. Right. But you haven’t played with anything like that.

14:06 I dabbled, but my main concentration is instead of spending an hour exercising something else, I’d rather spend an hour perfecting my jab or perfecting a round kick or the Bruce Lee saying, I’m not afraid of someone that has a hundred thousand kicks. I’m afraid of the man that has one kick that practices a hundred thousand times. So that’s me. I want to make sure that when I punch, every single thing is perfected with my body movement, my legs, my legs.

14:36 So I want to hit someone. If they could stay hit, it’d be much appreciated. You said before, you see like a lot of the UFC training videos and stuff and guys are flipping tires and you’re like, maybe they should be working on their jab. And maybe there’s not enough attention really paid to the actual art of fighting. Yes. Yeah. There’s a lot of guys, they come out and they’re with MMA, for example, they’re my type fighters. But then once the bell rings, you look at their skills and say, not quite. Yeah.

15:12 Because if you put that same guy in a Muay Thai ring against a Muay Thai champion, I don’t think that they do so well. So, yeah, my thing is I can, without banging the tire and without doing this, if I can perfect my jab, so I’ve got speed, power, balance instead of wasting my time doing other things. It’s like I can’t be a swimming champion unless I’m in the pool every day. So, same as fighting, unless I’m fighting, that’s the only way I’m going to perfect my techniques.

15:45 Do you think you need to log like 10,000 hours doing a jab? Do you think you really need to put five, ten years time into these techniques until they become perfect? Yeah. Just if you’ve put your whole focus in everything. Yeah. If my goal is boxing, I just box. If I’m Muay Thai, I’m Muay Thai. I don’t want to think outside.

16:08 Yeah. It’s very selfish. You’ve got to be just in that zone. So, stick to your knitting. Yeah. I don’t want to be a perfectionist banging a sledgehammer on a tire. That’s not what I’m doing. I’m punching people in the face.

16:24 So, I want to be really good at punching people in the face, not banging a tire, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. I want to get into your whole history of how you started fighting, and I want to hear about Thailand and how you were accepted there as a white boy. I’m going to ask you a question. You’re probably here all the time. You’re 40. You said you love that cheer of the crowd. Is it the best thing in life, that kind of a cheer?

16:53 And will you continue pursuing that for the next few years? Yes. It’s my opportunity to shine in front of a crowd. I’ve been very fortunate to do this sport since I was 11 years old. It’s a lot different to football because there’s so many people in the field, and you have to share that. But being a fighter, it’s an individual sport.

17:15 So, if I don’t perform, I don’t… Yeah. So, I know if I fight my best, my ability.

17:24 And then with the social media as well, you have a good fight, and you perform really well, and you do some crazy stuff in the ring, and you get the winner, I get the knockout. You turn your phone on after a fight, and the phone’s going crazy. You know you’ve done something right. You’re not going to get the same appreciation, washing dishes or laying tiles. And I don’t want a legacy as well.

17:47 At the end of the day, nobody lives forever. But if I can make my legacy live beyond my living years, then I’ve done something right as well. I want to have people look in 50 years’ time saying, that guy from Australia, John Wayne. Even though he still inspires me to want to be a martial artist. So, that’s where I want to… I want my kids proud. I want my kids’ kids proud. Grandpa and John O.

18:17 You’re 40 years old, 125 fights. You just won. I mean, how much more of a legacy do you have to build, and aren’t they already proud of you? Yeah, but I believe it’s like the ever-ending Everest. You always want to commit to climbing that summit until you’ve reached the peak.

18:35 And it’s always out of reach. You just want to be immortal, if possible. There’s a gentleman called Raymond Dekers who passed away two years ago. He was the first white guy to beat the toys. And he had, I think, close to 200 fights. And yeah, his legacy will never die.

19:01 He showed Westerners that we could fight the toys and win, and knock them out. So he inspired a generation. And now that he’s passed, hopefully I can be that next guy that’s going to inspire the next generation after me. And yet as a fighter, all fighters see some fighters retire too late, and some fighters retire too early. And I’m sure you’ve seen people where you’re like, okay, it’s time to hang it up. People in the UFC and in fighting.

19:30 And yet now you’re kind of into that period where ten years ago you didn’t really have to think about it. Five years ago, eh. And now it’s going like, okay, a few years, it’s hard to say. How do you deal with that being in the moment as well? Yeah, I still have the passion. So every morning I wake up at about 5.30. I have my coffee, and then I can’t wait to put my shoes on and get out on the road for an hour.

19:51 I love hitting the pads. I get such a buzz for the rest of the day once I’ve had my morning session, teaching classes, and then back in the afternoon to get in there again. So some mornings, because I’m very lucky I live on the Gold Coast, and it’s the beach. So I run around, and every single day I appreciate the view. I appreciate the waves coming in, seeing the surface going out there as I go down the road, saying good morning to all my usual people.

20:19 And there’s no place I’d rather be than in that moment in time. There’s no distractions. I just love every second of what I do in my life. So I’m very fortunate to live my dream every day, and then the thought of having to retire and to stop that routine, it really scares me. Because I’m very lucky that I make good money from it. My family support me. They get out there, go out and train.

20:47 So I have the 100% from my kids and my wife. Which is crucial, right? So if you’re fighting the opponent in the ring and your family, you probably know guys that are fighting their girlfriend and fighting the opponent. That doesn’t work out, right? So I’ve got 100% support at home, and then from just my friends and family, everyone’s just seeing me succeed.

21:11 So I don’t know, it just really scares me, the idea of having to one day haggam up. And then holding pads in the gym is fun, but it’s not fighting. It’s not walking in front of that crowd. It’s not feeling the rush of winning, of being handed the belt or hand of the trophy or hand of the check. So yeah, it’s like, ugh, it gives me the heebie jeebies even.

21:32 I’ve touched, I’ve retired once and then yeah, I didn’t like it. So this whole getting old, I don’t like it at all. Yeah, I just, I think when you get older, I’m 45 now, you just have to come up with new tricks. That’s all. And you’re like, your body doesn’t want to do this. All right, let’s go do this. Let’s do this. Let’s do this. Let’s do watch our diet a little bit more.

21:52 So yeah, you just got to come up with new tricks. And then starting the sport at 11 years old and now being 40, so 30 years of doing, running pads, sparring, living this lifestyle. And then not to have that anymore is yeah, very daunting. Right. Right. Well, if you’re enjoying it that much every morning and you speak of it the way you speak of it now, it would be crazy to stop doing it. You got to keep doing that. Yeah.

22:19 Talk to me about Thai boxing. I mean, why it’s, you know, it’s not obvious that you would have gone this way and yet it really captivated you. And you ended up moving to Thailand and you know, a lot of people are watching wouldn’t even understand really the details of what Thai boxing is. So when you have to explain to people why you took that path on the journey, what do you tell them? So what happened when I was very young, I think from the time I could walk with my earliest member is watching Monkey Magic on TV.

22:50 So I had this passion for martial arts. I had this stick and was catching clouds and it was just the idea of fighting multiple opponents. And then the karate came out and I just wanted to be a martial artist. I didn’t know what martial arts. I just wanted to be a fighter. And then we moved to Brisbane into the city and there was a taekwondo school only a few streets away.

23:11 And it was the first time my parents gave me the freedom to, okay, you can walk there and make sure you come straight back after class because it was a little bit 6-30, 7-30, a little bit dark. So I started taekwondo and I’ve got the uniform and then I wanted to go to Korea and stand in line with everybody and do the carders and break boards. And I thought I was going to be a taekwondo, hopefully one day get the Olympics. And then after about a year and a half, the taekwondo school closed because they didn’t have enough students and couldn’t afford the rent.

23:42 So there were six months in limbo, I was like, I want to be taekwondo, Korea, how am I going to do this? Eventually kickboxing, they ended up moving into the same hall. I was like, oh, kickboxing, it’s not taekwondo. I’ll do this kickboxing, I’ll give it a try. And then my first class, it was like, oh my God, it was like the shining, oh my God, this is amazing.

24:06 Why was it amazing compared to taekwondo? All of a sudden we were punching and then we just had this whole new element where we were actually sparring people and there was more contact and there was more vicious. And it suited me to a T. And then approximately the same time I started the movie Kickboxer with Van Dam came out and he was this gentleman that goes to Thailand and fights the Thai’s and it just opened up another. And it’s like now my whole focus was from Korea, now it’s Thailand.

24:36 Was that movie foreshadowing your life? Yeah, I’d watch it three, four, five times a week for years. And then even though Van Dam was a karate guy and doing the jumpy stuff, it wasn’t kickboxing, it wasn’t taekwondo at the same time, it was enough to inspire me to get to Thailand. So I ended up having all these fights, had about 13 fights. Got lucky enough to be sponsored by a gentleman who’s a Thai man, Richard Ville.

25:04 He’s got a restaurant, he’s seen me fight a few times. And you’re a teenager now. I’m a teenager, I’d won the two belts, I won the Australian title at 17 and I won a South Pacific title at 19, a really hard fight. What made you so good at that point? If you look back and it was like why were you winning those fights and no one else was?

25:22 I think just wanting to be somebody. Just having that passion, having that drive of wanting to be a champion, wanting to stand on top of the mountain.

25:39 Probably for girls too. I think every guy does something to try and impress women. And is it that passion, does that come out in the gym when you’re training for weeks or does it come out when you’re in the fourth round and you want to go home and your shin hurts and your face hurts and you’re like no, no, no, no, no. I’m going to win. And then also back when I was a teenager too, before I was just an annoying little boy, but then if a couple of kids from school would see me train, all of a sudden they’d say, oh man, you’re quite good at this.

26:13 And then they’d have a new found respect for me. All of a sudden I was a cool kid instead of being the ratbag kid. So it was a way of getting respect almost. And were you natural at it? Did it just fit your body type and fit everything?

26:28 Yeah, for sure. I was very lucky. I’d sparred the adults and I’d hold my own with the adults. And then people put me on a little bit of a pedestal because I was a little bit better than everybody else. I picked up things very fast.

26:42 And then even in the Taekwondo when I was 11, I was a kid at the back and then you see the boy at the front and they counted a 10 in Korean. The next kid would count a 10 to 10. I was like, oh, I want to be that guy in the front. I want to be the one that’s counting in Korean. I want to lead the star jump, the push up, and then slowly work my way up until I was that number one spot.

27:03 So I gave myself little drives to try and be the best possible person that I could be. So you’re 18, you got a couple of belts. What happens next? So I won the South Pacific title. I went to the visit with Richard the next day, took the boat in.

27:19 And then I was so happy and we sat down for lunch and he goes, hey, last night was crazy. It was so good. I got a question for her. Would you like to go to Thailand? So I looked at him and said, oh, yeah. He said, I tell you what, if you can organise your passport, I’ll do everything else.

27:35 I’ll organise your plane ticket, your camp. I’ll do a little bit of this. I’ll do that. You just got to organise your passport. But you’ve got to promise me one thing. You’ve got to say six months.

27:48 So many people go for one week, two weeks. You learn a little bit. You come home and then you forget about it. But if you go for six months, it’ll be more ingrained in your system then. You’ll have a proper technique.

27:58 If you go and you can’t handle it and you come back before that six months, me and you are done, I’ll disown you. But if you can stay six months, you make me the proudest man. Sure, I can do that. You said you’ll be sleeping on the floor. You’ll be living like a dog.

28:15 I don’t care. I want to be the best possible person. I’ll sleep outside. So I got my passport, went down. Hey, my passport’s right. Come on, let’s go.

28:24 So he dragged me to the travel agent. We sat down, six months, open ticket, please. And then about two weeks later, I was on the plane. And then he… Nineteen.

28:36 So his sister and the family were going over. It just happened to be in the same time. So we all caught the plane together, and then they drove me to the camp. And then they said goodbye and drove off. And then as I was left by myself, and everyone was speaking Thai, and at the first three months, I was sleeping with the rich’s brother.

28:56 So he walked up to the room. He said, this is our room. And there’s a double bed on the floor, the mattress. He said, okay, we’re going to be sharing that further. And he was like, oh, wow. And he was a big set man too.

29:07 And then so we stayed there for three months, and it was going okay, but I wasn’t really getting the training and the fighting as much as I wanted to. It was more of a foreign area. And then luckily, one of the superstars in Bangkok, he came to Australia to fight and had a really good fight and met Richard, and Richard begged them if they’d take me into their camp. They said, oh, we don’t take Westerners. We don’t want to teach Westerners. They’re the bad guys.

29:36 They’re going to teach him our tricks. Please, please, please. He’s a really good kid. And we can have him for free. You can just take him.

29:42 So after lots of begging and wishing, they said, oh, fine, fine, fine. So when they arrived back in Bangkok, they came and picked me up, took me into the camp. And then from that moment on, I was the only Westerner in that whole town. So a lot of people had never seen a Westerner before too. So the idea of me walking down the street, little kids would grab their parents and be like, what’s this?

30:06 So this is like mid-90s. Yeah, this is 96. And the Thais weren’t Thai teaching any Westerners. No, there’s only probably two camps in all of Thailand that were taking foreigners, because at that stage, they didn’t want to teach Westerners because they didn’t want them to know their secrets. Otherwise, they were worried that in the future, the Westerners would start beating the Thais.

30:26 And for people that don’t know, can you just give me a brief history of Thai boxing and why it’s like a national sport. It’s almost a national pastime in Thailand. It comes from a deep history, and it’s very seriously taken over there. And I think as a martial art, it changed my life. When I started training jiu-jitsu in 02, Thai boxing came closely after in 03 and 04, and I became obsessed with it, and I learned about it, and practiced the elbows and practiced the knees, and then whatever, it just caught me a kickboxer, but I’m a Thai boxer.

30:57 I went to Thailand, and it was amazing, but I don’t think people understand how it is part of the culture. I think it was Cambodia, I think they wanted to take over Thailand, so they had this big war, and then a lot of Thai soldiers were getting kidnapped. So there was one gentleman called Naka Nam Tom, so he got kidnapped. And for the… It might have been Burma.

31:25 Yeah, Burma, for the entertainment of the king, he’d send the soldiers out, and then make them fight to their death. And then the king would watch, and then there’s one gentleman called Naka Nam Tom, he’s gone out before the match started, he said a prayer, and he did a dance, and he asked permission from the gods to give him his strength, and then he’s gone out, and he’s won the first fight, he’s killed the guy, and then they sent another guy, and he ended up killing, I think it was 9 or 10 guys in a row, and then the king was so impressed that he allowed him his freedom, he said, yeah, blew his mind. So when he got back to Thailand, and they told the story, and then he became this legend, and then they got him to teach the Thai army, these Muay Thai secret techniques, and then from then on the legend grew, and then the sport grew, and then the war was over, and Thailand was safe, and then from then on in they became the national sport, and then slowly they started incorporating, using boxing gloves to make it safe, and they started using a ring.

32:31 And that was like a thousand years ago. Yeah, and this is all from one guy called Naka Nam Tom. That’s crazy, and that dance you talked about before is now the white crew, which you threw in a gun draw from the hip, which is how you kind of were the gunslinger in John Wayne Park. For people that don’t, I mean, so a lot of people will know, Westerners will know like a kickboxing fight, or even an MMA fight or UFC, but when you go to Thailand, you realize that the ceremony is a big part of it, and that each fighter does this sacred dance really, where they’re asking for help from the gods, and sometimes they’re cursing their opponents a little bit, and it’s a big deal, and there’s also music during the whole performance, and it’s really intoxicating.

33:15 My first time was in Lupini, Irina. I flew from London to Bangkok, and we got there really late, and I was like, no, no, no, we got tickets, and we went down there, and I saw it, and the music was playing, and it was just crazy to see, and these 13-year-old kids were fighting, and it was just beautiful, but it’s different than what most people know is, say, a boxing match, right? Yeah, there’s a lot of bands, too, so in the stadium, there’s a guy with a flute, a guy with cymbals, a guy banging a drum.

33:41 And they increase it and slow down the tempo based on the fight? Can they dictate the tempo of the fight sometimes? They can pick it up in the fifth round, because they’re trying to get more action. But yeah, it’s like a snake charmer with the flute, and same with the fighting. You don’t even realise that you’re going a little bit harder because you’re hypnotised by the sounds.

34:05 Yeah, but it’s got to the stage now where tight boxing is almost like horse racing in Bangkok. The people aren’t going to the stadium, so watch classical fights. It’s all about betting. So every single person is their own bookmaker, so you can stand in the crowd, and after every round, you put your hand up and you show certain signals with your fingers, which indicates different odds. And then if you’re waiting, you see all the different hands, and then you make eye contact, and you talk to that person.

34:35 You can be away across the stadium. You can make your own book in the middle of your own fight? You’re not the bookmaker, the people in the crowd. Oh, right, right, because you can see how you’re doing in the round. Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

34:45 And then your trainer will tell you, yeah, yeah, you’re winning, you’re winning, you’re winning. So it’s very crazy. Do you like that or not like the batting? I like it, but at the same time, the scoring’s a little bit crazy because you can lose four rounds, then come back in the last round, have a big last round, and still win for the… And then let’s pretend you’re losing quite badly.

35:07 You’re a ten-for-one, and it looks like you’re gone. Then you come back in the last round, you might knock the guy down two or three times, and then all of a sudden the odds have changed, and now you’re a five-for-one. Whereas a traditional scoring, they score the ten-month system from every round, whereas Thailand is like, yeah, they have their own system. It’s very hard to understand, it’s very complicated. Okay, so they don’t score each round, they just score the end of the fight?

35:34 They pretty much… It’s pretty much three, four, and five will tell you who’s won. Okay. And then… Because you can still bet…

35:43 Round four, end of round four, you can still put the money on, and then they can still turn it around. So if they did it round by round, you couldn’t do that, so… Okay, so they keep it kind of exciting. Okay, that was a great explanation. So all right, you change camps, this other camp takes you in, and now you’ve got a serious camp that’s going to be maybe willing to teach you, maybe.

36:01 No, they’re definitely… So Richard said, okay, you can have him for free. Which means they could make the money off your fights? Yeah, so what happens is, I don’t have to pay for gym fees. What happens now is, I can stay at the camp for free, they’re going to feed me twice a day, and then they’re going to train me for free.

36:19 The only thing is, every time that I fight, I give them 50% of my prize money. So they’re thinking, okay, so the more we train you, and the more that we show you, and the better you become, the more fights that you win, the more money you make, the more money we profit. So, yeah, and then what happened was, I’d won my first five fights straight, and I was doing okay, but I was only making a thousand baht, two thousand baht, which was only $50 a fight, so there was nothing.

36:48 And then I came back to Australia for, I thought my six months was done, that was a cool trip, now it’s time to think about getting a career, or washing dishes, or doing something to pass the time. And then the camp ringways, toy sponsor Richard, and they said, hey, look, five fights, five wins, I think. He could potentially have a big future here in Thailand. Would you send him back again? So Richard rings me, hey, do you want to get back to Thailand?

37:17 I was like, oh, yeah. He goes, this time, instead of six months, I want you to promise me one year. Yeah, really. Sounds like a great mentor, this guy. Yeah, really.

37:30 But if you come back after six months, me and you are done again, I can handle a year, that’s no worry. I can slip them on the floor. So my living conditions, I’m sleeping on a wooden floor, but my shower was a basin with a plastic container, so I’d use a plastic container, I’d wet myself, I’d use a soap, and I’d wet myself off in the water just running straight out, outside into the drain. For our toilet, our toilet was a hole in the ground, like a porcelain hole in the ground, and then you have to squat over, which is normal. The only thing is, no toilet paper.

38:03 So you use the same plastic tub to pour into your hand and wipe off excess feces. And then for your toothbrush, you have to use the same plastic container to pour the water into your hand so you can wash your mouth out after you brush your teeth. And then you’re sharing this one plastic container with ten other boxes as well. And then when you eat, you eat on the floor as well, so everyone gets a plate of rice, and they’ll put four or five different dishes in the centre with the chicken or vegetables or fish, and then you sit in the centre, and then you all eat at the same time, so instead of going, this is all mine, you go one spoonful at a time, and then it’s like a community dinner.

38:47 So there was no couches, there was no luxuries, you were there to eat, sleep and train, and sometimes it was seven days a week. So it was very tough. Heart training? Yeah, we’d do three hours in the morning and three to three and a half hours in the afternoon, and then sometimes when it was seven days a week, it was crazy. Sometimes they’d let us have the Sunday off.

39:08 And then after a fight, you were allowed seven days off, so I’d jump on a bus, I’d go to a patio, or just to speak English, and maybe have a hamburger. Because you hadn’t spoken English in months. No, yeah. So at first I couldn’t say a single word, and then I’d learn the Sawadee Cups and bits and pieces, and then I started asking questions. I’d try and teach myself five words a day, and then once I started getting words, and then the ties would send me on a quest to go to the shops and ask, I would like a bag of ice, and I could change that to a bag of ice to something else, and then all of a sudden I could hold my own, and then all of a sudden I could hear the songs on the radio, and I could start singing songs, and watch the TV soap operas, and I was listening to the Thai movies, and then all of a sudden I became one, I was sleeping on the floor, eating on the floor, speaking Thai, fighting Thai boxing, and I think the ties really, because I was the first really westerner to be full-time in Bangkok, so when I go to the stadiums, the ties pretty much seen how hard I was working and fighting and winning, and they took me in as one of their own.

40:22 So after so many years, yeah, I just became one of them pretty much, and then it was pretty cool, because after one of the big tournaments, the promoter presented me with this jacket, and it was, I think I’m the only westerner to receive this certain accolade, and it was like a thank you for becoming one of us, for not just being a fighter, but for being a white Thai. So yeah, it was really, it was so humbling, it was so cool. What are the Thai people like?

40:49 Like if you had to explain it to someone, what Thai people are like, what the Thai culture is like, what is it? The Thai are the most friendliest, giving, amazing, generous people that you’ll ever meet, until you poke the bear, and then once you poke the bear, then they become the most evilest, sadistic, ruthless. Yeah, don’t make Thai’s angry. Yeah, there’s certain customs that you should abide by, and then if you’re always polite, and you’re always Saweidee, you’re always a why, but you never look down on them, as a lot of westerners.

41:29 They used to drive me crazy, because I felt like I was one of them, and then when I go to the western areas, people would be rude, or just because they’re coming from a first world country, speaking to, they’d treat them like dirt, but then the Thai’s would take it, take it, take it, and then once they would push them past that point, and Thai’s don’t street fight. They shoot, they stab, they bottle, they iron bar, and they look after their own. Okay, so you don’t get the pleasure of a street fight?

42:06 No, no. Well, look at their national sport, their national sport is fighting, and then, yeah, I learnt very fast that everyone’s my friend, and then I was lucky too, because of being Buddhist, it doesn’t matter if you’re the king of Thailand, or if you’re the janitor, I’m going to speak to you exactly the same way. I’m not upper class, or I’m just, we’re the same. So I learnt that very early, that, yeah. And is it the Buddhism you think that just keeps everybody kind of in that, in that zone, in that gelled zone, because I noticed that as well, like nobody hunks their horn in Bangkok, and the traffic’s so bad, but there’s this general calmness there.

42:50 It’s all about karma. It’s all about if I’m a good guy, hopefully good things will happen to me in the future, but if I’m that guy that’s, yeah, things come back. But don’t cross them, and you can’t get in it. Did you ever have to get crossed with some Westerners and say, you got to stop that, or you got to cool that off? Yeah, I politely ask. I’ll tell you a story.

43:11 So, say, there was one time, there was these Westerners walking through the city. It was probably 12 at night. They had these outdoor restaurants. And I was with my Thai friends, and one of them was a police officer. And what happens, he would go and clock on, but then he’d come and hang out with us, because there was no real structure where he had to be anywhere, see.

43:31 And he’s in his uniform, and we’re drinking whiskey. And these foreigners just come out of nowhere, they walk on the streets, and they’re high. And I think they were Dutch. So they come and sit down with us, and they were talking, and then they’re sharing the whiskey. And then for some reason, one of the Westerners went over, and he touched the policeman’s head.

43:52 And I don’t know if you know Toko Kocha, but their head’s very sacred. You never touch their heads. And then we’re talking and joking, and about 30 minutes had passed. And then this Thai, the policeman was just sipping on his drink, but not saying anything, and he looked quite angry. And then out of nowhere, he whispered to me, tell the Dutch guy there that if he touches my head again, I’m going to shoot him here on the spot.

44:19 Like he sat on it for half an hour before he finally released the boiling. And he’s like, oh, mate, just want to let you know. Yeah, it’s just crazy how, instead of just sitting there, he let it just build, and he couldn’t handle it anymore. So, yes, they’re very crazy people. But it can kind of boil underneath the surface, and then when it comes out, it gets ugly.

44:47 Yes. Because they’re humans at the end of the day. Yeah, human nature. Some things will come out. Yes. Okay, so you train at this camp.

44:53 You spent a year here now. What happened at the end of that, and what was your kind of greatest moment of power? So, the lucky, well, not luckily. So I’ve had one of my fights, so I’ve gone to a patio for a week, and I’ve come back. And then what happened, all the other boxers had ran away.

45:12 One of the, because they have this thing where a lot of mafia is involved, and sometimes they want to help influence guys losing, so they can bet on the other guy. So, one of the fighters, he must have started spending money, and then the boss is like, where are you getting this money from? If I find out that you’re getting paid under the table to do something that you shouldn’t do, you’re probably going to wish you were probably not going to die. So, this kid’s freaked out, and then he’s taught all the other fighters and they’re running away with him that night.

45:49 So I’ve come back, and then there was only the trainers, a pad holder, and the superstar that was at the camp, his name was Sanctinoy, I think the name of the Deadly Kissa. So, I was like, where is everyone? Oh, the fighters ran away. So, they had the superstar and myself to survive on, so they need to make me as good as I could to try and make as much money because there’s only two of us making income for like a whole family now. So, now the superstar, he’s fighting the best of the best.

46:22 So, he needs a boxing partner, a grappling partner, a sparring partner, and there was no one else in the camp besides me to help getting fit. So, I was throwing under the bus almost to grapple and spar, and let’s say for instance we’re boxing sparring, we put the 18-ounce gloves on, and we’re going for it and doing about 80%, and then the Sanctinoy would just stop, and he’d just sort of give me half a shove and he said, if you’re not going 100%, don’t waste my time, either get out or let’s go, and then I’d say, ah, okay. So, I was like, 100%, and then every single day, I was that guy, so you get in tight, you get here, and I’d say, why are you here?

47:07 If you’re not going to give 100, if you can’t train harder than you trained yesterday, go home, go home. There’s little 10-year-old boys that can do twice as good as you. So, there was never a pat on the back that was saying you’re doing a really good job, it was always not good enough, and say every day you’d have to try and train harder or push yourself stronger. It was very mentally draining, mentally tough, because you always wanted to satisfy everyone, but you never could, even when you knocked people out at the stadiums, it was, ah, what took you so long?

47:42 Is that the tie-way, or is that this camp’s way? Yeah, or another time I was dominating from the opening round, stopped the guy in the second, and then I got in trouble for knocking him out. So, you knocked him out too early, we wanted you to lose the first round, so we’d get a bet on first, because you dominated from the start, you were the favourite straight away, so we couldn’t get any money on you. So, that was a waste. I said, ah, but I won, I guess, so what a waste of a fight.

48:09 So, yeah, even when I won, I was always, so yeah, it was so tough, it was so hard. Did that help you become a better fighter? It would have been nice to get a pat on the back of the round again, it would have been nice to get a compliment, but it’s their style, so yeah. And when did you get to the point where you were just recognised in the country as being this Western fighter that was becoming the best, and that was beating everyone else? So, I won my first nine fight straight, I started fighting regularly on the Thai TV, and I had a few fights at Lampini, and after my ninth win, I think I had six or seven knockouts too, so it was pretty cool.

48:47 And Lampini is the mecca of arenas, it was like the original main Bangkok place to fight. Every single fighter in Bangkok, or in Thailand, aspires one day to fight at this one stadium. Once you get to the stadium, you’re there. So, I’d fought there twice for two knockouts, and then I’d reached number four at the stadium, so I was one fighter away from a Lampini title, and then the magazine came, they said, oh, we want to do a big feature story, and I said, oh, beautiful, how good is this magazine? They’re crazy.

49:22 So, they’ve rocked up, and then the photographer’s there, and we’ve gone down to the park, and we’re trying to get a nice backdrop in the background. They said, all right, now try and look really strong, because it’s going to go on the front cover. I said, what? I said, yeah, yeah, didn’t they tell you that you’re on the front cover of the magazine, the first Western ever to make the front cover of our national magazine? I said, whoa. So, from that moment, I remember catching the bus once the magazine came out, and the news agents are very old school, they’re outside in the markets and stuff, and wherever the bus went, I could see this magazine, every single street that we went down, and I was like, holy crap, this is crazy, this is so cool.

50:03 So, you’re like a national star, national hero. And then my fight name was the Dangerous Kangaroo. So, yeah, I’ve come from Australia, so it was mad, it was really cool. And then, yes, I was fighting on TV quite regularly, and then I started fighting on King’s Birthdays. So, King’s Birthdays is a celebration of the King, of course, but they put a ring in the number one park in Bangkok, and then the show was free, the promoter would make all these money from sponsors and TV and everything else, so people would drive hours at a time to come and celebrate the King and light a candle.

50:38 So, you get over 100,000 people in this park that have the best westerners versus the best toys. So, the first time I did it, I was a semi-main event, and then, yeah, I’ve got up onto the ring, and I’ve gone to start my dance, the Ramon, and then my legs went weak, and I started the fight too fast, so I wanted to try and knock him out, and then end up getting gas in the last round, and I’m just losing on a very small decision. And then, from the next year, I got invited to fight on him again, and I told myself, okay, 100,000 people, I’m not going to let it get in my head this time, I’m going to go out there and just enjoy it.

51:20 So, I’ve climbed on the ring, and I’m like, this is amazing, this is so cool, like how many people can say they’ve done this? And then, yeah, as I’m doing my dance in my head, I’m thinking, I’m living the dream, how many people can say they’re doing this? And then, I ended up having the best fight ever, there was 10 Westerners versus 10 Tires, and I was only Westerner to win, and then from that moment, yeah, the ball started rolling again, and then I ended up fighting another two, another two Kings, so I ended up winning three Kings birthdays in a row, and that made me like this guy, the Kings birthday, the Kings champion, and then I come back to Australia, I opened my own gym, and then the opportunity came back from the Thai promoter, he said, hey, we’ve got this massive event in 2004, it’s called the S1, what we’re doing, it’s a world title, it’s a million baht, so it was close to 35,000 Australian, which is almost 20,000 pounds, which is 20-something American, it was the biggest prize money ever at that stage, and there’s also a trophy from the Prime Minister of Thailand, Chinawat, so I talked to the wife, hey, do you mind if I go and fight on the sink? Yeah, go for it.

52:38 So, yeah, I went back to Thailand, I trained for a few weeks, so I had three fights in two hours, so I fought a Russian, a French gentleman, and a Thai at the end, and this Thai had beaten me previously three times in a row, I hadn’t beaten him yet, so I ended up winning all three fights, so I’ve got this new world title, a million baht cheque, here’s his trophy from the Prime Minister, live on Thai TV, all across Thailand, and because it was the biggest prize money ever for every single media outlet it was covering the event, every single TV station, radio, newspaper, and it was the first time that the next day I walked to the shops being a tourist, just doing something, and then taxi drivers were stopping and asking for photos, kids, Thai, mainly Thai people, it was the first time that the Thai’s had actually taken me and said, alright, I was a somebody, a somebody, and what I wanted for the whole time that I was there had finally happened, and even now I get people go to Thailand all the time, and people know they’re Thai boxing, and where you from Australia, you know John Wayne, and hey, the Thai’s were talking about you the whole time, and really even now, even now they’re talking about you.

53:56 So if you go back now, people will start? If I go to the stadiums, so it’s like if you follow the sport, you should know who I am, if you follow soccer, you follow the soccer stars, you follow the Thai boxing, hopefully you know who you sort of are. What do you miss about Thailand, and what don’t you miss about Thailand? What do I, what do I, the hardest thing about living in a camp is even when I was in my 20s, I was treated like an eight year old boy, so there was no opportunity, okay, if I wanted to join the weekday for instance, if I wanted to go to the shop, and then you can’t go to the shop, you got to go and rest, you got to train this afternoon, if you go to the shop, you’re not going to have enough energy, or you got to ask permission like a little kid every single time.

54:36 It’s really old school. It’s almost like you’re a prisoner. Like a slave or something. You have to do everything they say or get out. Does that work or you think that’s a really dated mentality?

54:48 It’s hard, it’s hard, I don’t want to say it doesn’t, I don’t want to say it, but for instance, I was training in Bangkok, and I got a phone call from an Australian gentleman, he knew that I was there and knew I was successful, and he was in Samui, and he gave me a phone call, and I really looked up at this guy as well at the time, and he rang me, and I was like, oh, I can’t believe it, you’re calling me, how are you going? Oh, hey, do you want to come and catch up tomorrow, I’ll be in town? I said, yeah, I’d love to catch up, you’re the man.

55:21 This is before social media, this is before Facebook, and internet, and internet wasn’t really around then. So we caught up, and then he was telling me how hard he was doing it, so I had, so tough, we trained in the morning, and then after water skiing and doing weights, and then going out in the sun and laying on the beach, and I’m in Bangkok, and I’m living on a floor, and I’m pooping in a hole, and I’m using my hand to wipe my bum, and he’s telling me about how he was water skiing, and he said, after three weeks, I’m just missing my girlfriend so much, I just want to go home, it’s too hard, and I’m looking at him and going, are you serious? This is the Mecca, this is, here I am, I would chop my arm off to be recognised as one of the best, and yeah, so, yeah, it just drove me crazy, it wouldn’t, yeah, yeah, it’s crazy.

56:16 You really want to be recognised by your peers, don’t you? Yeah, I want to be the man, I’ve put my whole everything into this sport, and I want to make it worthwhile, I don’t want to be wasted, I want to, yeah, I want, it’s like Leonardo, for him doing that logi, it’s all he wanted, and then I’m the same with Thai boxing, I want to, there’s a gentleman called Raymond Deccas that we talked about before, I want to be him my whole career, every time that things got too tough, I just asked myself, what would Raymond do? He’d stay the course, and that’s where I want to be that guy, and then I hope other people can hopefully see my passion, and then emulate me and want to not give up either.

57:02 And when you left Thailand, you came back, I mean, did you fight more in Australia, was that completely different? So, what happened was, so four years, I got a, ended up getting a shin infection, and then I got to the stage where you can’t kick any more, you’re going to have to have three months off that leg, you can’t kick, and I had to tell the Thai trainer too, because now they’re still living off my, 50% of my prize money, and I had to tell the trainer, I said, ah, it might be time, because I was four years now, full time, it might be time for me to go home, I think I’m ready to be an Australian again, and then he got up and just turned his back on me in disgust, because now what are they going to do, they needed me, this is before the million baht too, so yeah, I made this big again, because I wanted to go home now, so I got back to Australia, and then I’m not sure what I was going to do, I started washing dishes at Richard’s restaurant, and I said, hey, would you like to open a gym?

58:07 It will help build it and get it ready, and if you can pay the bills and the rent and look after it, whatever profits left over is more than welcome to be yours, we just want to help you succeed. So we opened the gym, I had to guess how to teach classes and learn how to do private lessons, rush off my own back, so I think we’ll do this, just bluffing my way through, and then I got to the stage where I got a routine, and then started working, and then people were looking into the window, and all of a sudden more and more members come, and then more people wanted to learn how to fight, and then now I’m very lucky to, 16 years later, have one of the most successful tie boxing gyms in Australia, and people come all over the world too, so I’ve got a lot of people that come to just the train, but then I’ll be at the gym and people will rock up on the door, I’m from Switzerland, or I’m from Germany, can we get a selfie?

59:08 They’ll say, ah, you want to know about, no, no, I don’t want a class, I’m just here, I just want to tell my friends that I’ve met you, I’ve met you, really, yeah, it’s crazy, it’s so crazy. People heard about you, and I remember learning about you, you know, when I was training in tie boxing, it was just like, first of all, the name John Wayne Parr is kind of cool, and it’s just because you were Wayne Parr, somebody, what, the gunslinger? The tires, the tires again.

59:30 They did, okay, and was it disrespectful to pull the gun in the Y crew in the beginning? No, no, it was cool, and that’s how it helped me, and the first time I did it, I got a standing ovation, because no one had seen, everyone was pulling the bow and arrow, or they were doing different things, but to make it westernized, we did the six shooter, and it was one shot, one kill, I know, before, the first time I did it was double guns, and it was a blow on the barrels, and then put it back in the horses, and then, yeah, the tires went mad, they just, yeah, they, it was like, what is, what’s this, it’s cool, but what is it? So, and then, yeah, it sort of grew from there.

1:00:07 And you did this reality show called Contender Asia, and I remember that show, and they, again, they boxed you up with a bunch of guys, and they put you in, it’s kind of like the hot box, right, in the cooker, and you were saying, like, two training sessions a day, you had to do two interviews every day. A two hour interview every day. A two hour interview every day. And there was some French kid in there, that was just calling you out the whole time, and like, I remember, I didn’t know much about you, it was a long time ago, it was eight years ago, right?

1:00:33 I remember being so mad at this punk kid, because he was calling you out, and you were like, legend, you know, but you were still participating in this piece where you were fighting these younger guys, right? And I guess he was doing what a young kid does, right? What happened there, and do you, did you ever forgive him, or what happened in that series? Yeah, so, there were 16 guys in a house, we got separated, so there was two teams of eight, and then I was lucky enough to be, they had captains, so I was a captain on the red team, he was a captain on the blue team, and then from the first day that he came in, his thing was fighting this Thai called Yachting Lai, I fought him in Thailand, he beat me, my only reason why I’m here is to get revenge on that guy, and then he was just talking, talking, talking, and then we have challenges, so every time, whoever won the challenge, they get to choose the fight, so they’d won the challenge, and then he’d tell the guys underneath him, hey, okay, I want you to fight Yachting Lai, I’m not fighting Yachting Lai, he’s a killer, what are you doing?

1:01:31 You’ve been saying this whole time, you want to fight, it’s not good time that I fight him now, it’s better than I fight him, and they’re going, you just don’t want to fight him because you know you’re going to get killed, so yeah, he was just this mouth, and it was just, yeah, nothing that came out of it was any good, so he was a target, so we lost a few challenges, so they dictated who was going to fight who, and then the third episode, we won, and then being the captain, I took it upon myself to try and get rid of this guy because he was driving us all crazy, and then the only thing was, I was too angry because I wanted to destroy him and knock him out and make a statement, I fought the completely wrong fight, I beat him, but at the same time, I could have beat him better if I wasn’t so angry, so yeah, we got rid of this guy, and then I was lucky enough to get all the way to the final, and then so what happened, we shot 14 episodes, and then there was a six month gap between the semi-final and the final, so they could edit it, air it, and then have a live final in front of 10,000 people in Singapore, and so yeah, in this stage, we did the episodes, I’ve gone back to Australia, I’m training, building up, it’s on TV now, and it helped the sport of Muay Thai grow all over the world because it showed not only the sport, but the humility, how everyone was just good sportsmen, had respect for each other,

1:03:03 There was no egos, if you beat somebody, you’d help them up, you’d have a hug, you’re still friends, it’s just sport. So it was big, it was a big deal. It was the biggest thing that could happen for the sport, and then between the semi and the final, yeah, my dad got cancer, so I’ve come home and then dad’s cooked, he’s really sick, and then I’ve got to try and deal with that, and then try and get ready for this fight and this tie at the end, and he was a killer, and then my wife got pregnant, so she’s just about to have this baby, my dad’s dying, it’s like, damn, so then we flew back to Singapore a week before the show, so they needed to shoot some footage for the lead-up and what we’d been doing and how fit we are, and on the plane back to Singapore was the first time my dad had been sick that I’d been, no distractions, so I did for the eight-hour flight, and I was just so sad, and then this was probably the last time I’ve seen me fight live as well, not live, but see me fight before he was going to pass, so I ended up having a really good fight, I got knocked down on the first, I got knocked down on the second, I sort of came back in the later rounds, but it was too late with the knockdowns, so it was really devastating, even though I fought the best that I could, it just broke me, it was really important to win the money and you had the belt and have all the recognition, but more so just not winning for dad,

1:04:44 It still haunts me to this day, it still sucks. You wanted to win for him, was that the last fight you saw? That was the last fight, but luckily he was in hospital, the show aired, I took it to the laptop and I took it to the hospital and I got to show my dad, and yeah, he watched the fight and he was like, man, you lost, but what a heart, I’m so proud of you, and it was one of those moments where I’ll never forget the conversation we had after the fight, just having your dying dad giving you that pat on the back, was really nice.

1:05:27 What did he think of your fighting career? He was my biggest fan. Always, when you went to Thailand, you were crazy? Yeah, he’d show all his friends my videos and I’d be the talking topic, and all his friends were bombarded with what I was doing and photos and magazines, and he was my number one fan for sure, it was really cool. Talk to me about fighting with emotion, you said you fought angry with that one French kid and that was wrong, that last fight, you had a lot of emotions with your dad when you go in there, what’s it like fighting with emotion?

1:06:06 Yeah, it changes everything, because in the gym you’re fully focused on what you’re doing, but if you don’t look for the knockout, the knockout happens, but if you get too red-headed and too angry, it’s like the matador on the ball, all of a sudden you’re trying so hard and you’re telegraphing your shots, and people can read you a lot easier when you’re in the moment and you’re relaxed, all of a sudden you’re flowing and then out of nowhere with the nothing shot, sometimes your opponent drops because you hit him on the right spot. So yeah, it’s just about not having your head, you go in the distance, and if a knockout happens, bonus, if it doesn’t happen, at least you got that energy in the bank. And then also if you go into a fight with that emotional, oh I’m not knocking out, round two comes in the seal there, round three comes in the seal there, now I’m getting emotionally drained because why are you still here?

1:07:10 I should have knocked you out by now, and you put too much pressure on yourself and then it’s better to be just free, don’t put so much pressure on yourself, just if you can win, win is perfect, if you don’t win, at least do the best that you can so that when you put your head on the pillow, that you can still be proud of your performance. And how long did it take you to learn how to fight like that mentally? I’m still learning, 125 fights and I’m still trying to achieve it.

1:07:41 Chuck Liddell used to say, I’m not trying to knock you out, but I know I will. I just remember that line over and over and it was true, he was never going for that one punch knockout, but he was just like, tack, tack, tack, tack, tack, tack, tack, tack, tack, tack, tack, and then it would just come. That always stuck with me. The worst thing you can do is predict. Conor McGregor, he’s a champion because he can call it and do it.

1:08:08 It, but at the same time, I think that might have been his downfall for the Nate Diaz fight too because he called it in the first and he gave everything he had and then when Nate was still there in the second, it’s like, oh, what do I do now and now? And then you can see the different transformation from the first round and the second round. And I think next time when they rematch, I think Connor’s going to go into that same game playing where he’s not going to predict anymore. Hopefully he won’t do that. And then again, if the knock out happens, it happens, but if not, he can fight a smarter fight, not being in range and not being caught by Nate’s power and Nate’s size. Why put yourself in a dangerous position being in the pocket the whole time trying to trade when you can, the cage is so big and you’re so fast and you’re so good at what you do, do what you do, don’t put yourself under too much pressure.

1:09:02 Can Connor beat Nate? If he fights the perfect fight for sure. It’s a big ass because Nate’s so good and Nate’s so aggressive, but I think he fought the wrong fight trying to knock him out instead of playing the game. You don’t have to win by knocking every time, you just win. So it’s like Muhammad Ali, look at Muhammad Ali. You tag him three or four times and you get out and you move and you don’t get hit. Hitting people is the easy part, not getting hits the hard part. And then if you look at Nate’s face after the first, he had blood gushing down everywhere, but because he’s so tough and so has that desire to win himself, it’s hard. So you’ve got to Muhammad Ali, stick and move, stick and move.

1:09:50 As a fighter, what do you make of the whole Conor McGregor phenomenon? You’ve been watching him for a few years. I remember when he was fighting here in England and was getting the titles before he went to the UFC. When you see that, what do you see? Do you see marketing genius? Do you see fighting genius? Do you see a bit of both? Marketing genius, yes. And you can’t not want to watch his fights. He’s so good at selling a product like this. The first auto fight, I made sure there was nothing planned that day. And then when he was fighting Nate the first time, you had the tuning and now for the rematch, the rematch is going to blow figures off the charts. It’s going to be such a massive event. It’s just a shame we didn’t have him for 200 at the same time. It’s not 200, but the same. It’s going to be bigger than 200 because I dare say more people were tuning for that fight than they will for 200 because it’s quite classic written all over it. And the same, like we’re talking about Richard Ford, who will change their game plan, what adjustments are going to be made and will it be the same result or can Connor shock the world and beat this massive giant that who is Nate Diaz? I think people forget how tall Nate is and long he is. So good and so aggressive. And so resilient. It’s funny because I even get caught up in the Connor Hype wave and I’ve been watching the Diaz brothers for ages. I love Nick and pride and all that stuff. I mean I watched forever and

1:11:29 Those boys just don’t get knocked out. They just don’t. It’s uncanny. So to think that they would all of the sudden, it’s just that Nate took so many shots there and again Connor was really pushing it. And I remember watching that first round and he kept seeing Connor kind of fall over after those punches and it’s just like he’s just putting too much into those things. But at the same time, very hard to predict what was going to happen.

1:11:53 Yeah, it looked like he was going to win. I think he’s going to win this if he’d run just by the first round alone. But this time Nate’s going to have a proper camp too. So you can imagine him with a 10-week prep and because he’s doing his triathlons and he’s so tough. And the last one he was drinking and whatever else and just rocked up and won. So you can imagine him.

1:12:21 And in his after fight speech too, he said in theory if I was fit, I wouldn’t have got hit at all. So it’s going to be really, really, really exciting. And what do you think Connor should not do? Do you think there’s certain things like where you’re like, okay, sometimes it’s too much or sometimes being the champ can get to you. Do you think he puts too much pressure on himself?

1:12:39 Yeah, I think he’s created his own monster where before he’d predict round three or predict round two. But it seemed like the last two or three fights, it all had to be round one. I’m going to get out of him round one. You’re just a bum. You’re round one, round one. Where if he had to just, again, like we were just talking about before, thinking he’d hit five rounds and then it happens, it happens. But yeah, I know he wants to be the next Muhammad Ali, but it’s so hard. And then again, if round two comes and you haven’t knocked him out and then you’re in the fourth and the fifth rounds, yeah, you’ve got that mental pressure. It’s like, oh, he’s still here.

1:13:18 He’s still here. I’m making a fool of myself because I called round two and he’s here in round four. But if he just knocked him out, it’s still cool. It’s just, yeah, but I don’t know. It’s his thing. I’m different.

1:13:31 It feels like what Connor like, he puts like all of his money on like, not black, but like black number 13. And then it wins. And he leaves all the money on that one number again. And when I heard he was fighting Diaz, I was just like, what the hell is he doing? And I’m like, of course he’s doing that. Like that’s what Connor does.

1:13:47 He just doubles down on himself and just raises the stakes. But he’s like, like no other fighter would. Yes. Most fighters would just be like, OK, let’s sit back. Let’s think about it. Let’s maybe go to 55.

1:13:56 But that’s what Connor does. And I think that’s why we have to watch him. You know, it’s it’s just, yeah, we can’t not watch. When you have to watch, that means it’s a pretty good fight. Yes.

1:14:05 When when the rematch was done and they were talking about 155 and he said, no, I want to do it at 170 again, because if I do it at 155 and win, there’s always going to be that question mark. Oh, you couldn’t be in 170. So you have to do 150. So I can’t give the guy enough credits like me. And that’s that’s hard. Cool. That’s that’s that’s man points right there.

1:14:26 Right. That’s a lot of tie box and weight classes. Yeah. Two, two classes. That’s crazy. Yeah.

1:14:32 So you mentioned UFC 200. Let’s talk about that. Yep. Your good friend Mark Hunt trains at your gym sometimes, right? Sometimes.

1:14:39 I’ve seen him punching noodles in the stomach. Talk about noodles later. But that boy can take a punch. Yes. He was almost laughing off Mark’s punch.

1:14:48 And he looks like he was hitting him pretty hard. Yeah. He hit him. Noodle said after Mark Hunt left that he touched his soul. He said, I didn’t want to say nothing while Mark Hunt was here.

1:14:58 But soon he’s left. He goes, Oh, man, I think he crushed my heart. I felt my heart stop for about five seconds. He’s a tough kid because in slow motion that watched it and his face didn’t go like all scrunched up. So he’s got good game face.

1:15:12 You maybe you taught him well as a fighter. But I mean, I remember Mark Hunt from Pride back in the day, you know, and when the UFC took over pride, the UFC offered to buy Mark out of his contract. They’re like, we’ll pay you for the last two or three fights and you’re done. Basically, you’re done. And Mark said, no, I want to fight.

1:15:30 And he was like, well, you can have the cash. And I think that says everything about Mark Hunt. Right. So he’s in his late 30s, maybe at that point or mid 30s. I don’t know. And he’s like, I don’t want the money.

1:15:40 I want to fight. So he fights and ends up winning his next couple of fights. Right. Yes. I think he lost his first one.

1:15:47 And then he had one left or something. And then and then it’s just Mark just pulls these wins out. And, you know, he’s not known for his wrestling or his ground game. But he can really stuff a takedown. He’s very aware of what I see him.

1:16:01 He’s very spatially aware. For the untrained eye, he looks like, OK, just a bruiser that’s waiting for that big punch, but I also see he’s very aware he knows what he’s doing. Now he’s fighting the UFC 200 against Balthazar. I mean, what a crazy sport that that could happen. He’s already fought for the heavyweight belt before Mexico City.

1:16:19 Yes. Yes. What do we know? What do you know about Mark that we don’t know? What’s what’s he like?

1:16:23 What’s your relationship like with Mark? He’s just he’s like that long lost friend that you meet and then he just brings you in and gives you a hug. And then he’s just just one of the boys. And then you look at him, you think superstar. But then when he starts talking to you, you just feel relaxed and you feel like you’re not even for the last 10 years because you’re watching on TV.

1:16:47 You feel like you have that that bond. But yeah, he’s just he’s yeah, really nice guy. He’s just one of the boys. You respond with him. Oh, no, no, no, no.

1:16:58 He’s too big to pick too big. And and what do you make of his career the last few years? I mean, man, you know, he just amazing knockouts, you know, a couple couple losses where he got right to the top. Yes. But I mean, it’s incredible to watch what he’s done.

1:17:13 Yes. And just I mean, this is the top of the this is the best in the world. Heavyweight vision. Well, yeah, what do you make of he was he was almost for the title against Badoom. I think he had two weeks notice and he had a drop of maybe 15 or so kilos.

1:17:29 A lot of weight. Yeah. And the short notice and high altitude and high altitude. And then he dropped Badoom, I think, three times with punches and then didn’t go to the ground, knock him down and let him stand up, knocking down again, let him stand up. And then Badoom landed that big knee that stopped him.

1:17:45 Right. But it was very close. That was kind of like he was winning. Yeah, you’re right. And Badoom pulled out the Hail Mary shot.

1:17:51 It was it was devastating because I really wanted a mark to win. But like we were saying about leaving that legacy, Mark Hunt’s for forever, even if he doesn’t win the title, people are going to be talking his name for, especially in New Zealand and Australia, what he’s done for the profile of the countries, he’s really raised the bar and he’s shown that the young kids and the young generation that if they work hard, they can be the next Mark Hunt. So, yeah, I’ve got nothing but respect for him.

1:18:20 I think he’s a legend. I think and he’s a cool guy, too. Now, is he going to be Brock Lesnar? Yeah, yeah, it’s not even it’s not even you can’t walk away from the sport for four years and then jump back in on a month’s notice and fight someone at Mark’s caliber and then Mark’s been on a winning streak too with the Bigfoot and Mia. He’s he’s in the zone and he can see the world title opportunity just around the corner. So Lesnar is just a big, high profile fight that’s just stepping soon and getting that world title shot.

1:18:55 You know, Lesnar is interesting. I didn’t see this coming. I didn’t know he was going to come back. I remember Boss Rutan said something when he had he brought a couple of fighters to train in like his last camp out out to wherever he trains in the Midwest somewhere, and I’m thinking of the name. I can’t remember his name.

1:19:12 He’s a kickboxer who left the UFC. He states Rose Nimijunas, whatever his name. Oh, yeah. You know, I’m talking about. He’s he’s awesome, too.

1:19:21 It’s funny. Yeah. But I think Boss said, look, when you when you spar with with Brock, does he let him hit you? And he’s like, because he doesn’t, does he? And he was just questioning whether Brock was really having proper sparring sessions in these training camps or not.

1:19:35 Now, look, boss wasn’t there. But you got the feeling that maybe Brock wasn’t really sparring the way you spar or the way Mark hunts spars. Do you think that’s true? Do you think those camps were just maybe not your typical? No, Brock.

1:19:49 Considering he came out of nowhere to win the fight, said he won and to become a legit UFC heavyweight world champion of the world, that’s massive. That’s such such an achievement. So no one can ever take that away from him. And his wrestling backgrounds are very world class. But but you see the MMA is a different kettle of fish.

1:20:14 When you get someone’s a Mark Hellabard that is striking, he’s going to have a very tough time. And that when Brock fought Kane Velasquez, I think that exposed him a lot too. When Kane punched him and Brock turned his back and ran, that was probably the moment where that was his chink in his armor, where everyone now knows that Brock doesn’t like getting punched. Right. And anybody who’s done a lot of sparring and striking in the ring, you know, that that reaction doesn’t come about if you’ve done a lot of sparring.

1:20:44 Yeah. And then if you’ve had four years off, you’re not going to be able to to handle that. You have to be four years in the gym and getting punched consistently before you’re immune to that sort of being punched. Right. So for him to come back and fight the heaviest hitter in UFC and someone with impeccable timing, like Mark does with his right hand, it’s going to be a big, big order.

1:21:08 Yeah, maybe he’s going to try to I think you’re trying to come in. And if Mark’s the matador, he’ll come in, he’ll step to the side, let Brock run past him and do that two or three times until Brock gets tied. And then if Mark hits him, then yeah, it’s not going to be. If Brock gets Mark down, it could be anyone’s fight because Mark Hunt’s pretty good at standing back up as well. So holding down is going to be a tough order.

1:21:34 But getting him down, it’s like the Mia fight. If Mia had got Mark to the ground, it could have been all over as well. But that that idea of trying to get Mark to the ground, it means you have to step into Mark’s range. And that’s when usually Mark leans. Right. Yeah, it’s tough.

1:21:50 It’s a tough, tough fight. It’s going to be exciting to watch. It’s so exciting. So good. Yeah. You mentioned Ronda Rousey earlier.

1:21:56 You were in Sydney when she got KO’d. Yes. You’re you mentioned to me earlier. What was that like? You know, what’s it like?

1:22:05 Well, there was so much hype. There was so much going on. Such a huge event for Sydney, too. What was it like being there? And then also as a fighter, what do you see when you see that?

1:22:13 I don’t see. Yeah, Ronda Rousey, she was she’s she’s amazing. She has as an athlete. I think her last three fights all up lasted four minutes or something like 30 seconds here, 14 seconds there. So going into the the flight, Holly had two fights for USC and she was very apprehensive.

1:22:35 She didn’t look she was on the back foot and she was counter fighting. She didn’t look comfortable. So ninety nine point nine percent of people believe that she was a bit underdone, maybe another three or four flights time she was ready for Ronda. But USC were sort of thrown under the bus a little bit. So for and but with Holly’s boxing and being a South Pole and keep boxing abilities, well, it was going to be a tough order and unless Ronda got it to the ground, so but soon as the bell rang, yeah, Holly just fought the perfect fight.

1:23:16 She she was moving. She was tagging her. She’s stepping away and then within ten seconds, Ronda’s face was already starting to go red and then the more the fight progressed in the first round, it was getting redder and redder getting more and more tagged. Redder because she was getting hit. Yeah, getting hard punches to Holly doesn’t tippy tap.

1:23:36 Yeah, she knows how to leverage her hips and shoulders. So you see them connecting hard. Yeah, Rhonda saying now that it was like a very early punch that just took her out of the thing. Yeah. Well, she was saying she couldn’t draw an apple because her jaw was busted.

1:23:50 She got hit in like the first 20 seconds. Yeah. And consistently, too, for the whole five minutes, she was getting punched quite, quite hard. And then the couple of times that there was a scenario where Rhonda did grab her. Holly was smart enough to get out of it before she got taken to the ground.

1:24:06 Escape. And then speaking to Joe Rogan, after the after the event, he was saying, because we had a commentary was sitting in the crowd, but he said only on the earphones he could hear the Rhonda’s trainer saying, you’re doing amazing. Keep doing what you’re doing. And Rhonda’s bleeding and all messed up. And they have the trainers to to give her this false hope instead of changing the game plan saying, hey, look, it’s not what we’re doing.

1:24:33 It’s not working. Let’s let’s do this, this or this. I just keep doing what you’re doing is perfect. And then second round. Is that the wrong thing to say or sometimes that the right thing to say?

1:24:42 No, definitely never. You never want to like just try to give your fire some confidence because if they’re so out of it and you start telling them that they’re doing bad. I mean, you’re never a scenario where you do that. You’re you’re you’re the fighters eyes. So your job as a trainer is to make adjustments.

1:24:57 So if you’re getting hit, OK, we’ve got to stop this and start doing this. And then hopefully if you’re at a high enough level, you can have a plan B, a plan C, a plan B. But if you’re losing and you’re getting tagged as much as she was, you definitely don’t want to keep getting more and more punishment because it’s going to take its toll eventually. Accumulation, the brain can only take so much before it shuts off. And but that had that with that Holly landed that was going to shut her off anyway, but everything leading up to that didn’t help either.

1:25:28 So do you think she had been hit a lot in practice? No, no, I think I’ve seen she’s done a fair bit of boxing with war class boxes like Victor Chinian from Australia and other boxes. But at the same time, you’re sparring a girl to I know. I know it’s some people think this derogatory is. But if I’m a sparring a girl, I’m not going to go.

1:25:48 I’m not going to hit a girl as hard as I can. Like I would a guy in sparring anyway. So, yeah, you know, you know, I mean, it’s just the etiquette. It’s just a general etiquette. You might lean and tippy tap, but at the same time.

1:26:05 Yeah, and I think Rhonda had been blown up into such an enigma that she was bulletproof. She was she was above. And even when she stopped Beth Kahia, it took a minute or so. So I said, I was going to do it in 20 seconds, but I made it last 60 seconds and it’s starting every once you say it, everyone would laugh because everyone expected it. But when the when the egg got turned around and there was the other way around, yes, it shocked the world.

1:26:41 It was it was such a holy holy crap movement. It’s like, wow, say, yeah, from the and it’s just such a shame that Holly didn’t retain the belt when she fought Misha. She went back to being that vase of nervous fighter again. She was but when she fought Rhonda, she was so in the zone and so calm and so collected and that that Holly was perfect. So when you see a fighter take a big loss like Rhonda, like what do you have?

1:27:09 What do you do? Like, what does a fighter do? And like you said, you you become this persona that’s so big. Now you bought into the own hype and then that loss. I mean, Rhonda said she was depressed and thought about suicide.

1:27:19 And have you ever been that low and what’s a fighter supposed to do? Yeah, I’ve I’ve been definitely depressed, but I haven’t I haven’t been suicidal. But at the same time, you dust yourself off. I know that I gave you a hard fight. I know I know I can beat you, too.

1:27:37 So I know I’ve got to get back in the gym. I’ve got to train harder. OK, I made that mistake. Next time I’m going to work on this. So it doesn’t happen again.

1:27:45 But, yeah, it’s all about the longer you prolong it, you’ve got to get back in there. You’ve got to yeah, you it’s like jumping off a high tower. The longer you look over the edge, the higher it gets, the more scared you get. But if you just do it, you realize it’s not so bad. So it’s the same with fighting.

1:28:04 You might have a loss unless you get back in there straight away. All of a sudden the boogeyman gets more and more crazy. Do you think she’s waiting too long? Yeah, now it’s now it’s yes. We’re talking about a fight that happened not a year ago.

1:28:15 Well, you know, seven, eight months ago. Right. And then why are you waiting in the wings and not training people’s skills getting better and better and better? So, yeah, the being stagnant, you’re losing muscle memory. You’re losing instinct.

1:28:32 Whereas you’re constantly in the gym, you’re getting better. So sharper, stronger. So, yeah. How come John Wayne Parr isn’t a UFC fighter? Because it wasn’t big when I was training.

1:28:48 And then I’m a realist also. I know that if I wanted to be at a UFC level, I’d have to spend what I’ve done in Thailand again with my jujitsu. And then I’m the sort of guy that I have to go to Brazil and I’d have to learn proper Brazilian jujitsu or I’d have to go to America for you to learn proper wrestling and takedowns. I don’t want to rely. I can’t rely on my pure stand up to get me through because I know there’s going to take me down, hold me down and get me in crazy locks or chokes.

1:29:19 And I don’t want to embarrass myself either. So and then so many times I’ve thought about it to try and make, hopefully one day give it a good red hot crack. But then to get the opportunity to fight in UFC, I have to lay the foundation of fighting on the smaller shows first to get the experience. And why I’m doing that means I’ve got to start at the bottom again. So that could take years.

1:29:44 And I’m at the stage where I’m on my tie, that I’m travelling the world, making enough money to support my family, supporting my gym. So I kind of I can’t afford at my age to lose this precious time where I can and I possibly love striking. My whole thing is I want to entertain and every the best UFC fights or best MMA fights that you’ll ever see as the one where they stand the whole time. So and I’ve actually in Australia, I’ve created my own promotion now.

1:30:14 It’s called CMT, which is Cage Moitai. So it’s everything MMA. We’re doing it in a cage. We wear the MMA gloves and it’s Moitai rules. So as soon as you go to the ground, stop, you stand back up and you stand again.

1:30:26 So and since they’re small gloves, the hits really hit the ball. It’s yeah, it’s very violent. It’s very painful. How does that change our normal Muay Thai fight? Does it make the boxing more of a factor?

1:30:39 Yeah, it makes every single fight more entertaining because even if the guys school levels aren’t as good as the main events, they’re throwing with 100 percent power every single technique because I know any single punch can stop the fight. So no one’s going out there to feel everyone’s going out there to create as much damage as possible. It’s yeah, it’s tingling. You can’t look away from the cage because if you turn to talk to your friend, something could happen.

1:31:08 So everyone’s like transfixed on the cage. It’s so cool. It’s really cool and it’s fast. So there’s no stalling. Whereas MMA, you’re pressed against the fence.

1:31:17 You could be there for three or four minutes with nothing happening. Whereas in Muay Thai, if there’s no action within five seconds, you step back and start again. So it’s yeah, it’s very, very fast and very clean. Right. I like it.

1:31:31 It sounds like an amazing thing. I know Mark can’t spin to your fights. He loves the format, loves that style. Do you think it could get bigger? I hope so. It just needs exposure.

1:31:41 Once people see it, yeah, I think you have to see it live too, because then you can feel the atmosphere in the room. When you watch it on the on the Internet or you watch it at home, it’s OK, it’s OK. But when you’re in the room, the stakes are higher and you can feel the tension. When you walk into the stadium and you see a boxing ring, for instance, you look in the ring, you’re like, oh, yeah, it’s going to be a good night of fights. But you walk into the same stadium and you see a steel cage right in the center and then it’s like, yeah, this is a whole this just raise the bar.

1:32:11 Tenfold is it’s such a such a buzz. It’s really cool. How can a nice and respectful guy like yourself like violence so much and like knocking people out? It’s a violent game of chess. So it’s it’s not about just going crazy.

1:32:30 Oh, it’s it’s so calculated. You have to be so in the zone. And so precise. Yeah, it knockouts don’t just happen, especially like someone like Nate Diaz. His rule is I’m going to stop you and my will is I’m going to stop you.

1:32:45 So you have these two bulls and then whoever’s the more calculated bull is going to is going to win. So it’s just it’s probably the oldest form of any sport in the history of the world. It’s just two guys, a boy and boys. So they start wrestling or they start fighting. So we just built to do this.

1:33:09 We’re not built to hold a tennis record. We’re not built to we’re built to fight. Do you watch any other sports? No, I know UFC. What is Joe Rogan? He calls it the ball on the stick game.

1:33:20 You put the ball in the whole game. And Dana White always says if there’s two guys playing basketball and two guys playing hockey and two guys playing football and the fight and two guys fight breaks out, they’ll all stop their games and go watch the fight. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then, yeah, you go to the football and hopefully a fight is going to break out or you go to the hockey.

1:33:40 Hopefully a fight is more tight. You know what you’re getting from the that’s what you’re paying the money for. So there’s no distractions. You go in there to talk to me about bullying. I know you took this this kid noodles under your wing.

1:33:54 It’s something we’re seeing a lot of people talk about these days. You know, the guys in Torrance, the Gracie, Henry Gracie. Those guys have a whole now school that they do about anti-bullying and they really try to get kids in and get them to do the jujitsu. And they’ve got a lot of theory around it now, as in really interesting ideas like anti-bullying techniques don’t work in school because they empower the bullies. How the kids actually need to sort it out themselves at the end of the day.

1:34:18 They can’t have parents tell them what to do. And just wonder what your experiences was with this kid and how you feel about the whole issue. Yeah, I believe not tire boxing per se, but I think martial arts, I think martial arts could help change people’s perspective on what it’s like to be bullied. Because if you’re in the gym and you’re training and you’re hitting the pads and you’re also getting hit like like like sparring, for instance, you know what damage that you can cause.

1:34:46 But at the same time, you know what it’s like to be bullied. You know it’s like to be hit and it’s not pleasant. No one likes it. So I think through martial arts, you have a different respect for people. You and then because if you have a sensei or instructor or crew and type boxing, you have the different respect for your elders.

1:35:08 Also, I think, I just think in martial arts, it just changes people’s perspective. Say how many guys have never trained before. They go to the pub, have a few drinks and they want to test themselves. But if you’re in the gym and you’re testing yourself every day, though, like I said this to a gentleman just today, it’s like a chef cooks a ala carte meal all day. When he goes home, he stops and gets McDonald’s.

1:35:35 Last thing I want to do is the same with fighting. I train all day. The last thing I do want to do when I go out in the town is get into another fight. And it’s like, I’m not going to do this. I’m not going to. I don’t want to fight for free for there’s no glory.

1:35:45 I don’t get a trophy. I don’t get paid. And there’s a good chance I’m going to end up in jail. So I don’t want to fight. And I don’t want to get hurt.

1:35:51 I don’t want to go to the hospital now. I want to go and have a good time with my friends. So and then if I want to test myself, I go to the gym. I go to my friends. We play and then we’re best mates again.

1:36:03 And we go we go. I’m the guy that taken him to have a drink. So, yeah, it’s just it’s just crazy. And it’s just in respect. It’s just learning respect for for humans.

1:36:14 Yeah. Why? Why? Why? What makes me better than you?

1:36:17 What makes you better than me? We’re all the same. We’re all bleed the same color. You might make a little bit more money than me or I might make more money than you. But we’re still we’re still just just the boys.

1:36:29 So, yeah, it’s a it’s a funny place where we live in right now, especially with the media trying to make enemies. There were Muslims are bad or the white people, black people. I think at the same time martial arts teaches everyone. Okay, I can I can spy on Asian. I can spy on black person.

1:36:49 I can spy on Russian. And then we all have that same passion. And the day doesn’t matter who you are. It’s just we’re just I don’t that doesn’t matter what religion you believe in either, because we’ve got that same where the same where the same. So it just it just sucks.

1:37:06 It just sucks. That is where the world’s trying to make us all get divided. Anyway, anyway, so about noodles. Yeah, sorry about that. And now he’s taken a couple punches.

1:37:18 You liver shots. I think you give him a scene. You give him a liver shot in slow motion. And Mark Hunt give him a liver shot in slow motion. The Mark Hunt video got like a half a million views or something silly.

1:37:28 And he took a punch from Mark Hunt, which is just crazy. If you asked me to take a part from Mark Hunt. Yeah. So so noodles was a big kid. He is approximately 147 kilos ish.

1:37:43 And then there’s not much opportunities in America for the fine work. And because he was a big set, he was, I don’t know, maybe a little bit embarrassed to go out and try different things and try different sports, just lack self-confidence. So his mum hit up my wife being sisters. Hey, you guys got the gym. If I sent him to Australia for 12 months, can you give him a hand?

1:38:05 Yeah, sure. No problem. He stayed at our house. So he got to Australia and then straight away he he he took to it. He started training mornings, afternoons.

1:38:18 We changed his diet a little bit. And then he started really getting a passion for it. And we got him we got him a fight. He had a I think a seven second knock out or something. He’s very first fight, which is like blew his mind.

1:38:35 Then he went in second fight. And then he was lucky enough to get sponsored by a gentleman called Matt. He had a little money. He went to Thailand. He got to live in a camp for himself.

1:38:44 Got to have a fight in Thailand. And then he came back to Australia again. And then yeah, and then then it started having fun. He used to eat raw chilies on a mobile phone would upload on Facebook for for giggles. And then the chilies turned into something else.

1:39:00 They’re sending something else and then it turned into the stomach punches. So yeah, so then so I’ve punched him. We’ve got all these likes. And then me and he was always sitting in the home. How can we get some more likes?

1:39:11 So we’re doing different things. And Mark started coming to the gym for training for the Mia fight. And then after his session, noodles give me a tap on the shoulders. Hey, any change you’re going to ask Mark Hunt to see if you’ll punch me in the stomach. Gee, all right.

1:39:27 Yeah, no worries. So I went and asked Mark, hey, Mark, hey, got this kid here. Everyone punches in the stomach for giggles. Any change you’re going to punch him? I just finished my session.

1:39:38 I got sore hands. I’m getting ready for Mia. Why don’t you get one of the other boys to punch him? He said, ah, but he’s not your Mark Hunt. If you punch him, he’ll be huge.

1:39:47 I don’t really want to. Come on, come on, come on. So we twisted his arm. All right, I’ll do it. And he is I’ll punch you on my left hand.

1:39:55 I’ll just do my left. So he looked like he was he wasn’t into it at all. And then so we did the countdown three, two, one. And then you just see Mark’s face change into this beast. We’re one of the train.

1:40:09 Yeah, take noodles out. He wanted to destroy them to as if to say, how dare you ask me to punch you? And then he hit him in full force. I knocked him back about three foot. And then, yeah, like I said, noodles took it.

1:40:23 Didn’t even wince his face. Started jumping up and down. And yeah, we uploaded it. And I think, yeah, like I said, they just went crazy. Every single news media started sharing it.

1:40:34 I got shared on Fox Sports in America. Everyone all of a sudden, noodles was this star. Because who in their right mind get the hardest hitter in UFC to punch in the stomach for free? It’s just it’s just crazy. Yeah, crazy, crazy.

1:40:51 And he lived. So now noodles once Mike Tyson the punching. He said, he could be big in the mark. And I’d love to have Mike Tyson have a crack. So that kid can take a punch.

1:41:03 Yeah, he’s mad. He’s crazy. Respect him for that. But he said it took some of his soul. Yeah, he did.

1:41:08 After Mark left, because he was playing around laughing, joking. And then Mark jumped in the taxi and went back to his hotel. And that’s when noodles, holy crap, you guys have no idea. I thought I was going to die. But I didn’t want to show Mark in front of him because I wanted to pretend.

1:41:24 But as soon as he left, it’s like, yeah, you guys have no idea. It took him like probably three or four days to start breathing in properly. It was good. Yeah, I was wondering, can I ask you a few questions about some of your success secrets, like some personal habits about you? This is a question that I really like.

1:41:44 What is something that you believe that other people think is crazy? I believe something. For fighting or for just general? Fighting in life, something that like when you say it, not a lot of people agree with you. And it’s just like that.

1:42:02 Some people are like, well, that John Wayne is a little crazier than most because he thinks of life that way. Okay, with the ties, the ties are very superstition about afterlife and ghosts and everything. So they believe if once you die, your spirit goes into the trees. And when you chop the trees down and build your house, the spirits come with the wood. So yeah, I think there’s even with Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan has a thing with aliens and this and that.

1:42:32 But when I mentioned the ghost, it’s sort of like, oh, but yeah, so I can see what the difference is between why there’s aliens and why they can’t be afterlife as well, why they can’t be the spirit world. I like to pray before I fight just to make sure that people are the afterlives on my side. Yeah, I think there’s something beyond. It’s like water. So water can turn from an oxygen to ice to liquid.

1:43:03 Why can’t the same thing happen with our spirit? Once we pass, why do we have to stay in one body? Do you think you got that from the ties? I think so, yes. Because the ties have every single house has a spirit house.

1:43:16 And so before a fight, we would pray to the house to give it strength. And then they’d give it food and alcohol and drinks and stuff to constantly keep. You’d want your spirit house more better than your house. So the spirits would live there instead of coming to haunt the bear. Yeah, it’s really weird.

1:43:34 So definitely, because I was only 19 at the time, so I was very impressionable. So they’re saying, these ghosts, you said these ghosts, I guess, and these ghosts. And then I had a few little visits between my sleeps and stuff. I remember being held down for the first time, my sleep paralysis. So I had a really bad night.

1:43:54 I felt like I was stuck to the floor and trying to scream, couldn’t scream, anything else. And then I told the ties the next day, I said, oh, I had the craziest dream. I couldn’t move. I said, oh, that’s just a ghost sitting in your chest. I said, pardon me?

1:44:08 Oh, yeah, there’s a ghost in that room. That’s why we decorate the pole with the powder and the perfume. And a ghost lives in that post and attacks people all the time. So, oh, that’s really nice, especially in 19. And then I started having dreams.

1:44:25 And I swear the spirit used to come and visit me in my dreams and talk to me and tell me different things. And then I’d probably get sleep paralysis maybe four or five times a week for four years. So whether it be nighttime or daytime, in daytime I’d get held down as well. And I could have another boxer beside me. I’d try and touch him to wake him up so he could wake me up.

1:44:48 I’d try and scream. I’d try and nudge him, say, just if I help. And, yeah, never helping. I’d always have to. And then the more you resist it, the more it hangs on to you too.

1:44:58 And the ties have this theory that if the ghost really doesn’t like you, it’ll put its hand over your mouth and nose and suffocate you in your sleep. And then, yeah, die of natural causes. So, yeah, it’s quite frightening. But you think that also helps you because you get very spiritual before a fight. Yeah, well, because you’re asking permission from the earth to win the fire of the water and always asking for inner strength and protection.

1:45:23 And they believe in the Buddha emulence as well. So even with their necklaces and stuff, so a monk will sit there and make all these different little Buddhas. And then when they pass, their spirit will go into every single one of those little emulence that they make. So they’re even there thinking of the afterlife also. And then I was a monk as well.

1:45:45 I was a monk for seven days. Richard’s sons got the opportunity to be monks. So, hey, look, you’ve done everything. You’ve done your toe boxing, you sleep on the floor, you speak Thai, you fought toe boxing, you lived there for four years. Would you like…

1:45:58 The only thing you haven’t done is become a monk. Do you want to become a monk with the boys? Sure, I’d love to be a monk. So we went to Thailand. We got ordained, we got a head shaved, our eyebrows shaved.

1:46:09 We got all our possessions taken away, given robes. And then every morning we’d have to wake up and we’d walk this certain block. And people would be on the side of the road with food offerings and then they’d put it in this bowl that they would carry. And then whatever food that we were given, we were allowed to eat that day until a certain time. After 12 o’clock you weren’t allowed to eat anymore.

1:46:30 So, and what really blew my mind, they’d give you food and they kneeled down in front and then we’d say a Buddhist chant to help give them karma for whether it’d be this life or next life. And then there was one lady who was blind. So her sister would come out, hold her hand, give the food into our bowls and kneel down and we’d say this chant hopefully for this life that she could get her sight back or just to make her life better. And it was like, every single day she was there and it just really hit home that the Thai culture, the Buddhism and just how important it is for the Thai people that these things are there.

1:47:11 So, yeah, just those little things definitely helped me become the person I am now. Even though I’m a nosy, I still believe that I have a lot of Thai traits stuck in my system that I can’t shake. Yeah, that’s deep stuff. Yeah, it’s cool. It’s very cool.

1:47:28 It’s just like when you have all your possessions taken away and you soon realize that we put all these added pressures on ourselves with business, with money. But if you have a little bit of food, a shelter, a wooden floor to sleep on, life’s not that hard. Life’s pretty cool. We put too much pressure on ourselves by saying we need this. Yeah, we need that.

1:47:50 Thailand is considered a third world country, but you speak to the people and they all laugh, they all smile, they’re all helpful, they all play, they’re all as one. So let’s pretend there’s ten of us. I might win my fight, I get my prize money, I’ll shout everyone dinner for a week, a month, until the money runs out. And then as soon as my money’s out, you might win the lottery. And then once your money’s running out, then Steve might do something.

1:48:20 So somehow or other, we’re all surviving. We survive as a big group. Instead, this is mine. Dude, Westerners, this is mine. That’s yours.

1:48:31 Okay, once yours has run out and you’re in the street, it’s like, oh, I’m not going to help you. We’re just Thailand. Hey, come on, mate, come and sleep at my house. I’ve got a room on the floor. We’ve lost love, I guess.

1:48:46 I think we’ve become too caught up in our own selves that we’ve forgotten that at the end of the day, what happened to our society. So, yeah. It’s a good observation. And one you wouldn’t have known unless you spent that much time in Thailand. Yeah, yeah.

1:49:04 It’s very sad. When I went to America, it was the first time that I’ve seen homeless people to the, I mean, in Australia, you might see one once a year. But in America, I’d run down the street and then I’d see 30, 40, 50 people inside the road. And it’s like, how did this country, the American dream, yet there’s more poverty in America than anywhere else in the world? How did that happen?

1:49:30 How can they spend so much money on their military and arms but have people that are dying on the street, what happened? Yeah, it doesn’t make sense. It’s a good question. It doesn’t make sense. Can you tell me something you’ve changed your mind about in the last year?

1:49:45 The last year. Yeah, something that you think differently now.

1:50:11 When you think of the word successful, who comes to mind? Joy St. Pierre. Okay. Yeah.

1:50:21 I see him. He’s got a net worth, I think, 25, 30 million. He owns his own apartment. He’s on movies. He’s on commercials.

1:50:31 He can’t walk down the street. And he’s got a legacy that’s going to outlive his life. So, and then, as a fighter as well. He’s everything that I am as well, except for just, just had the spotlight shone on him where he can shine, so. How’d you guys become friends?

1:50:55 Through a pure fluke. I was doing seminars in Canada. And then I did seven seminars in seven days, and then I had two days spare before I hopped on my plane and came back to Australia. And then the gentleman that brought me out said, hey, just to kill time, would you like to travel to Montreal and meet Joy St. Pierre?

1:51:13 I’d love to. I’ve watched him on TV so many times. He’s a genius. So they rang the trainer, Mr. Faraz, and he said, hey, you wouldn’t believe it.

1:51:22 Tomorrow is my Thai sparring day. Would Wayne like to jump in and participate? Oh, mate, this would be crazy. So he’ll jump in the car, we drove to Montreal. The one we got there, they were wrestling.

1:51:35 So I sat there and watched in just amazement because I’d never seen that higher class of wrestling before. They were like eels escaping one another’s locks, and it was just really, really cool. And then they put us up in a hotel. I said, oh, connects day sparring. And then everyone’s left, and it was just me and Faraz left.

1:51:53 And Faraz was whispering in my ears saying, oh, everyone is so scared. What do you mean? I said, oh, I’ve told everyone about your reputation. I told them you are some killer. It’s going to be really, everyone can’t wait.

1:52:05 I said, oh, I know. So the next day came, we put our shin pads and gloves on. We got warmed up. Faraz was like, hey, I’m George. You go with Joy.

1:52:16 I said, oh, my god. Because I just wanted to meet him. I just wanted to take a photo with him. I didn’t know we were going to actually spar. So we touched gloves.

1:52:26 And then for the first 30 seconds, before the spar side, I was like, oh, George is well in there, George. I’m your biggest fan. I can’t believe this happened. And he just looked at me like I was just going to be some tomato can. Do you know who you were?

1:52:37 I don’t think so. OK. And is he about the same size as you? Yes, same size. Same size.

1:52:42 Probably a little bit more muscly, but about same size. So then, because I’ve seen George fight Jake Shields and cross-check, and he had this killer jab, so I’m expecting this, like, ruthless, really fast. And the spar started, and then he’s throwing something, and I’ve blocked that. And I’ve moved out of this, and I’ve blocked and encountered. And then after 30 seconds, I’m thinking, hang on.

1:53:05 I think I’m winning, which I wasn’t expecting. And then once I started picking it up, and then George made a mistake. So I started chasing with hands from one side of the room to the other side of the room. And then I believe he threw a lazy jab. So I’ve parodied his jab out of the way, and I threw a head kick.

1:53:23 And then I’ve just placed it on his neck and just sort of left it there for a bit of a fun. And it was almost like the whole room, like an old western, the whole room stopped instead. Here’s my shin on George’s, and George’s eyes are like these big saucepans. He just left it there. You’re just there?

1:53:37 Just for fun. And then the spar’s finished, and it’s, ah, that was cool. And then after the spar, just quietly George has come up to me and said, just want to thank you so much for knocking me out. He said if that had been anyone else, and that was the opportunity to, I’ve knocked out George, but you just placed it there. You say, yeah, no, don’t worry about it.

1:54:01 It was, I could have got you any time I wanted to. I just wanted to show you that I could. And then, so we’ve done some photos, and it was really, really amazing. So I’ve gone back to Australia, and about three months later, four months later, my phone rings, and it’s for us. And I answer the phone, hey, look, I’m just sitting here besides George St. Pierre.

1:54:21 He was really impressed by the sparring and what you guys were doing. He’s got this big fight coming up with John Hendricks. He’d like to know, would you like to come back to Montreal and train George personally for two weeks? You don’t have to do any classes or seminars. It’s just you and George one-on-one for two weeks.

1:54:39 So, ah, I asked my wife, Angie, can I go train George? Yeah, sure. All right, yeah, I guess. And then the next couple of days later, I was on the plane, and then George at the airport picked me up. It’s like, ah, this is like crazy.

1:54:52 And then we were inseparable. He took me to the hotel, and he picked me up for breakfast, and we’d eat our liqueur, and to George’s credit, he’s that guy that, if there’s 20 people, he’d, everyone gets their meals. And then the bill would come, and he wouldn’t even look at the bill. He’d just put his card in. And then, because I knew George was paying too, he’s like, oh, what’d you like to eat?

1:55:16 You look at the menu, and there’d be a $30 steak and a $50 steak, because you’ve sort of, ah, ah, ah, ah, can I get the 30? He goes, what are you doing? The $50 steak is amazing. You’ve got to try, get him the 50. He’ll go, oh, the 50.

1:55:30 He’s that guy. He’s just the best, genuine, not only is it just a dead-set champion, but as a person, he’s a dead-set champion as a person also. So, it was the highlight of my life as a trainer, to be in his presence. And to see him walk down the street, and to see a whole town, just stop and try and just touch him, or get his photo, or pull out their phones to watch him walk across the street. I’ve never met anyone.

1:55:57 He would be the equivalent of a modern-day Jesus. Wow, that big. I’ve never seen anyone. We walked into a nightclub once, and he walked across the dance floor, and halfway across the dance floor, someone said, hey, George St. Pierre, everyone’s dancing.

1:56:14 And the whole room stopped, turned at George, and then the whole room walked just to our table. And it was like an avalanche of people coming in to try and touch him. It was when we had to stop and walk straight back out the door again, otherwise we would have got crushed by the masses. He is just, yeah, ridiculously too famous. The first three days, it was like, oh, yeah, this is, wow, George is famous.

1:56:40 It’s cool. Every red light, George, George, every time crossing the street. And let’s say there’s from here to 300 metres away. So he’d catch a taxi from there to there, because if he had walked it, it’d be half an hour between… Talking to people.

1:56:57 Talking, just people touching him, or a photo, or every meal was like two mouthfuls, stand-up, picture, two mouthfuls, stop, photo. Is that too much? Do you think at some point he was looking to just get away from that? So after the third day, it was like, yeah, it doesn’t turn off. I just was expecting that the night, if he goes to the toilet, for instance, there’d be someone outside the cubicle waiting for a key, oh, shaking hands, like, oh, can I wash my hands before?

1:57:24 Yeah, it was too much. Do you think that’s why he left? I think people, not just George, but like Justin Bieber, people like that, you can see how it’d affect their psych, because… It’s not healthy, right? Not healthy, it’s too much, it’s just crazy.

1:57:40 You’re a prisoner of your own fame. Your own creation, right? Yes, yes. Were you able to teach him anything in two weeks? Yeah, yeah, he was…

1:57:47 He picks things up. He was very karate-based, so if he threw a phone kit, he’d throw it and leave it out there. And because we were finding John too, John on the southpaw, so we were working on basic techniques, your typical southpaw counters. And powerways too. When we first saw him on the pads, he was a little bit slow and not hitting to his full potential.

1:58:10 And then about three or four days into what we were working on, just the different sound on the pads, and even John Denner here, he’s coaching New York, he sat down and watched the pad session, and then after the pads, he sat down and said, I can’t believe the transformation in seven days. This is crazy. I’ve never seen George hit so hard before. And flow. Flow from technique to technique instead of just ones.

1:58:37 Which is your specialty. Yeah, yeah. Like we were talking about earlier, flowing. Flowing, flowing too. And hitting everything with bad intentions too.

1:58:46 So there’s no tiptoes to set up the power. Everything was power. That’s the way you fight too. Everything was power. Yeah, it was really cool.

1:58:54 It was really cool. But then what happened was I was there 14 weeks before the fight. I was there for two weeks. And then he had 12 weeks of falling back into that old routine. So he beat Hendrix, but at the same time, I think he could have beat him a lot easier with less punishment if we had a stuck toe.

1:59:12 A little bit what we were doing. Right, and kept him sharper with the striking before that. Kept him out of danger from that crazy left handed Johnnys. So instead of walking into it, walking and staying on the outside of it. Is GSP going to come back?

1:59:26 Good question. I believe it’s a… I think one of the things that made him turn off the spot was they didn’t have the SADA drug testing. When he was fighting John, he wanted to make a big statement. He wanted to pay…

1:59:46 I was actually at the table where he was going to pay $20,000 out of his own money to have him and John tested at any given time on that 10 week lead up. And then the UFC sort of ridiculed him a little bit. Daniel White came out the next day saying, well obviously George has trust issues and he doesn’t believe in our system and we’re going to do a weed test the night before the fight at the Wayne or after the fight to see if John’s hot or cold. And it’s like, well what about the lead up?

2:00:15 What about doing the cycles? I don’t want to fight someone that’s chemically enhanced. I want to fight someone that’s even playing field. And I think him stepping away made the UFC take a look at their policies and now that they’ve implemented the SADA testing, now everyone’s getting tested, everyone’s getting caught. Once a week such and such is just being tested positive, which is great because now people have…

2:00:45 They can’t do their cycles, they can’t cheat the system. They’re getting tested out of competition. It’s good for the young guys coming up knowing that they’re not going to get smashed. He was talking a lot about it and then I remember when Dana came out and it was a real flap in the face to do that, especially to a champion and he was offering it. Now I know it’s weird for Dana to say, okay yeah, George is going to test you and it makes the organization look bad and blah, blah, blah.

2:01:10 So I understand why Dana did it, but George was ultimately right and now they’ve started testing and like you said, everyone’s popping. And so I think it’s a clean sport. I hope George doesn’t come back. He seems quite happy, but at the same time, I’m talking to a fighter here and the fighter always wants to be there. So I don’t know if we’ll see him.

2:01:27 Yeah, the thing is he’s so rich and he’s so famous. For myself, I can’t retire and live off my savings because there is none. The Muay Thai, where he’s millions of dollars. So yeah, I don’t know. If he went here and got that competitive streak, it’s hard to turn off, I guess.

2:01:53 But it’d be interesting, human law law, that’d be good for him. That would be a good fight. That would be a great fight. Yeah, I miss Jimmy and his wrestling and all the things he did. It was just so, I bet he would be a great student because I bet he would just pick up everything you say and listen.

2:02:07 He’d call me sir, would do pads and he’d say, yes sir. It’s like, whoa. Because of the air, the American sort of thing as well. Either everyone’s yes sir, no sir. And then, because George has been in New York for so long, and then it’d be cool.

2:02:23 So it’s like, you know, George St. Pierre, just call me Wayne. Call me Wayne. That’s funny. We were talking about Joe Rogan earlier.

2:02:31 You know, there would be no London Real without Joe Rogan because he inspired me to do this whole thing when I was a banker. I know you saw my Ted talk and I used to watch his shows back in the day. And then when I quit banking, I remember I was watching all the shows and I remember I told my dad, I was like, hey dad, you should do a podcast. He’s like, what are you talking about, Brian? And then we finally started London Real.

2:02:48 So it was a big inspiration. I was on his show at like episode 271 and Joe gave me a big hug and it was like a big, it was a big thing. And a big thing for us. I know you’ve done three shows with him now and you were hanging out with him at the Holly Home Fight and all that other stuff. What’s it like training with Joe as well?

2:03:03 Yeah, training with Joe, yeah, it was crazy. So he had a really sore back. He might have had a bulging disc and he barely moved. And then he said, oh, I want to come, I want to train with you. So as I arrived in America, hey, I’m just wondering, do you still want to do some stuff?

2:03:22 Yeah, I got a gym, I choose my address. All right, cool. So we did some stuff. It was very stiff. It was in pain, but at the same time he said, this is a golden opportunity.

2:03:31 This might never happen again, so I want to do it. So we went through the motions. And then at the end of it, say, I don’t know, for a giggle, do you want to have a play? Do you want to have a move around? Sure.

2:03:44 So we chucked on the pads. And then we were just like two mates, just having a light hit. There was no winner, no loser. It was just fun. So one of the boys recorded on his phone.

2:04:01 And then, hey, can I upload this? The opportunity to me say that I’ve spied you. That would be cool to share. Because, yeah, I’ve been in the media since I was like a young boy. I don’t, yeah, go for it, no worries.

2:04:14 So we uploaded the training session, hitting the pads, and the light spar. And then just the backlash from people that are watched. Because people don’t know how bad his back was either. We almost said he didn’t want to spar because of it. But, oh, let’s do it.

2:04:32 So he was half crippled at the time. And he did the best that he could under the circumstances. And it was just fun. But, yeah, all these people, how dare he commentate fighters and how dare he tell people what they should and should not do when he can’t even throw a single jab. He looks off balance when he throws it.

2:04:50 He’s the one that was teaching GSP the spinning back kick. Yeah, yeah. You see that footage. His power is crazy when he kicks those pads, his madness. So, yeah, it’s just people just looking for something to pick people apart.

2:05:05 Yeah, against society. Internet is just, it’s very cruel. Every now and then I’ll throw up a thing of me kicking tight pads. And I still do it, try to do it once a week just because I still love it. And it always makes me feel better afterwards.

2:05:18 Yeah, it makes us fun. But I just know, I’m like, here it comes. Everyone’s going to tell me what I’m doing wrong. And I don’t even read the comments. And then my trainer will be like, did you see what they were saying?

2:05:27 I’m like, I don’t even want to know because everybody’s on a sofa somewhere and there’s something I’m doing wrong. Even George will do some of the stuff with George. And I said, oh, man, did you read this? Because he’s on Facebook, and his Facebook is 4 million people. And then he’ll put a clip up of us doing something.

2:05:42 And I’m going through it and it’s all hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. You should be on your toes. Hate, hate, hate. And then my every, every ad of one at every 30 is one nice one. Oh, did you see the, I don’t even read my Facebook.

2:05:55 He said, if I read the comments, I would go crazy. Yeah. So it’s best just to put it up, stay relevant, still keep active with the social media at the same time. If you let it get to you, it’ll, it’ll rot your brain. Yeah.

2:06:08 And especially training footage. Like everybody can just go grab on one detail. I’m sure you heard too. Why did you do that in the fourth round? For some reason, I’m not sure, but it seems my social media, I have a very positive people that follow me.

2:06:21 Okay, fill up. That’s because your legacy, you keep talking about you want to leave a legacy. You have left a huge legacy, John. Yeah, it’s just, it’s nice. I’m like a Delaware, I’m like a goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo, goo!

2:06:34 But yeah, poor George, I feel sorry for him. There’s one of them that was saying, if ever I’m having a really hard time sleeping, I just put a George St. Peter fight on him. Halfway through the first, I’m out. It’s like, oh my god, people are so rough.

2:06:47 Yeah, and people forget after a few years. I love it. John, it’s been a pleasure sitting down and talking to you. Right. Again, like you know, you were just someone I remember hearing about, inspiring me back when I was in my 30s and you know picking up this whole obsession that was you know Muay Thai and I never fought in a professional fight I always knew that wasn’t me but I did my sparring and I did my training and I worked on that I first couldn’t throw an elbow and I couldn’t throw the other one and I didn’t understand the knee and then I slowly got a little better a little better and yeah it’s not about it’s about having fun yeah if it doesn’t doesn’t matter if you’re because because I run a gym as well at the same time I want to try and you don’t have to be a fighter but if you can if you can kick an extra in each in the yesterday we’re winning everyone’s winning yeah just get a little better yeah it’s fun it’s fun it fun loves fun yeah so you just remember if you if you’re not in loving it do something else that we are loving it yeah and I think your time in Thailand like it was really special for you and just to be that first Westerner that was you know that was actually recognized by the Thai people but I think they gave you some really strong gifts and I didn’t really understand until you were just talking about I think they gave you that real spirituality that sense of community that sense of oneness and I don’t know if that’s Buddhist related or just the way

2:08:07 That they are you that you kind of bring with you now and you probably bring it with you when you fight and you’re like an ambassador of kind of that spirit and I think it’s a great thing and so yeah I think you’re probably very grateful to kind of the part Thai person that you are so yeah it really shows through and for people that don’t know you very well you’re the you know true true martial artist humble grateful guy and your face doesn’t look as bad as I thought it would all that 317 stitches right yeah yeah so it’s all good next time you come to London with Love to Have You Back On and I would love it if you’d spend maybe a half hour with me and show me a few tips easy I’m getting a little stiffer a little older but I always want to learn I always want to get better yes and it would be great no sparring well maybe I don’t know and that’s it I always ask people just a couple questions at the end I just wanted to ask you this if you could make a quick phone call to the 20 year old John Wayne now I guess you would have had those belts in Australia maybe just been going into Thailand at this point I guess yes and you could give that young man a bit of advice what would you tell him if you could literally talk to him right now what would you say believe in yourself you can do it yeah just just yeah keep keep never let go what you would set out the distance to do if you have a gut feeling fully you got yeah it’s a gut feeling

2:09:33 For a reason yeah live it live it yeah on that same note what’s the best advice you ever received might have been from a trainer or someone you said or that gentleman you mentioned in Australia I said boys good question I’m sure I know probably something you picked up in one of those in those tie camps it’s probably advice that it wasn’t spoken yeah right like training hard and yeah with the tie boxing it’s all about the poker face too so you know emotion so no matter how hurt or how much you’re winning this doesn’t change because this soon as they see a chink in the arm and then okay that’s okay that’s it so even when you get cut still emotionless and they teach you that you learn that you’ll learn that okay because you just learn you don’t want to tell them what’s out because I watch the tires and then the tires would be so fearless and so cut and bang then you see the westerners come over and they’re like this tiniest little scratch and like throw the in the between the rounds you can hear and tell the trainer throw the towel so hey this yeah cuz I was there all the time and and then to see the western and see the tires like I don’t wanna be that quite and then it’s always embarrassing where’s the ties and use a warrior I wanna be a warrior so yeah and then um and then if you lose but you still cut and you still fought the best of the ability and you still get respected whereas if you if you had the little nick and you stop it’s like

2:11:10 You’re a joke yeah so be the warrior be the warrior stay tough last question to that 20 year old that’s out there watching us that wants to be a fighter it wants to be a professional fighter it wants to be like you what advice do never give up say if you’re losing for four rounds you you’re one punch away from winning and then if you can pull out the the magic card and land that one shot it’s greatness so you look for the look for the no matter what happens in your head okay I’ve lost the first I still got four rounds I’ve lost the third I still got two rounds I’ve lost one I’ve got one round knock you out I got 30 seconds I hear the clock I’ve got ten seconds knock you out so you gotta and then it went in the round okay now I know the lost but least I’ve given it every single opportunity they have to take yeah and then once the fight’s over I know that I’ve given them a hundred percent I didn’t give up in the because giving up is worse than losing because then you got to live with yourself you got a you got that in the back of your head for the rest of your life I’m a quitter hey don’t be a quitter yeah I got beaten by the better guy in the day I can live with that but to know that I gave up is um yeah that’s that’s you you you know you got the question marks the rest of your career good advice yeah awesome John Wayne Parr thanks so much hey my pleasure I’m gonna give you that thank you and let’s do it again sometime yes yes all the best