John Gooden - Voice Of The UFC

Full transcript: John Gooden on London Real

5:05 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is John Gooden, the international sports broadcaster covering mixed martial arts for the UFC here in the UK, Europe and Asia. Your broadcasting partner is our good friend and two-time guest, the MMA fighter, Mr. Dan Hardy.

5:20 You are a vegan, triathlete, iron man who worked in parallel as an electrician during much of your career as a broadcaster. You are a blue belt in jujitsu. You sport a mean bow tie on air and have definitely proven your chops as an MMA analyst and broadcaster. John, welcome to London Real. Thank you for having me on.

5:37 It’s great to have you. I’m here. I’ve been watching this for the longest time. We were talking just off camera when you had the split screen. And now you’ve got a room that my wife would be proud of the decorations.

5:48 I think you even borrowed these from her, right? These old typewriters, we’ve got those from our wedding somewhere. So she would love this. She would approve, as do I. Thank you.

5:57 You know, not many people knew us from back in the split screen days, so I appreciate the fact that you were watching. Yeah, with Nick and an old friend of mine, Patrick Vickers. Yeah, and Patrick Vickers. So you know Patrick from the Cage Warriors. I do.

6:08 And I knew Patrick from the city. Right. He used to work at Goldman Sachs, and he was one of our clients. Right. He’s gone back to the city, I believe.

6:14 Yeah, he’s gone back to the city for now. We’ll see. Yeah. Because he had taken time. So yeah, a lot of weird, intertwined history.

6:21 You know, Timothy Sheef will be talking all about this. Yeah. So look, there’s so much to talk about. But I want to think about my first impression of you. And I think that’s when BT Sport came on maybe two, three years ago.

6:32 And all of a sudden, I see you there talking about MMA. And I hadn’t picked you up on the radar at Cage Warriors back in the day. So I was like, who is this guy with the bow tie speaking proper English? And I was like, what does this guy know about MMA? And I slowly started learning about who you were and that you actually knew what you were talking about.

6:54 But at first, I just didn’t register you in the community. And I was wondering if you could just tell me how that all happened. Was that strange? And did you get this reaction that I’m giving you from a lot of people? That first…

7:06 The show you were talking about, was that where I was in studio? Yeah, I think so. With Caroline. Yeah, that would have made sense. Yes, yeah, that was it.

7:13 Yeah. That was an interesting… That was an interesting welcome to the broader UFC audience. OK. Because in this country, mixed martial arts as a sport is different to UFC, if that makes sense.

7:28 You have a UK MMA audience who, of course, will follow UFC. But the UFC audience in the UK didn’t necessarily follow grassroots mixed martial arts. So, of course, if you weren’t watching some of the local shows and attending them and picking up the streams, then you wouldn’t have had a clue who I was. I made a few errors that night going out in a, I think, a velvet pink bow tie and like a purple jacket, which was me coming to the upper echelons of my local scene and having that confidence and then coming to like a much bigger audience and should have massively turned that volume down.

8:06 But that show actually, so I don’t talk with much positivity about that show because after the show, I had my phone just didn’t stop vibrating. It was like 200 and something notifications. I was lucky to get 40 on my birthday. OK. I thought my career was done.

8:21 Was this your Twitter blowing up or…? This was everything blowing up, including my confidence, like in a bad way. I didn’t know that I was going to be on the telebox so much that night. I was supposed to be going in there saying something about the rules and then like topping the show and giving some reaction, not coming in and out as much as I did or certainly I didn’t think I was. So when that happened, I thought, OK, great.

8:47 But then they were doing things on the show that I thought would annoy the fans. Like I was talking through walkouts then between rounds, but it was live and there’s right go, John. And I was like, OK, well, I do the best that I can. And of course, not a lot of people knew who I was. They didn’t respect me.

9:02 And I hope I earned a few fans. One thing that did come out of that was the UK MMA community really got behind me. There are a couple of people that actually stayed up all night, didn’t go to bed, fighting my corner. I remember having a conversation like 7 a.m. with a particular guy, G van, who was just out there just saying, you don’t disrespect this guy, give him a chance.

9:24 He knows his staff, he’s earned his stripes. He deserved that opportunity and it blew me away. And they knew you from those years and years and years in Cage Warriors. Yeah. Doing all those local shows.

9:35 Yes. Yeah. Because you had been there and done that. I mean, you called Conor McGregor fight in 2010, right? Yes.

9:41 You’ve been there, done that. And I didn’t know that. So again, I was like, who is this guy? Exactly. And I don’t know.

9:46 I remember you’re wearing that night, but that sounds about right. Yeah. And plus all these other faces as well. Like there was a woman in there and I’m like, I felt like these were carpetbaggers. You know, people came down into my sport.

9:57 And now they’re going to try to say it like it is. And I try to be open minded. Yeah. I mean, I was at Brawl in the hall here in the UK in 2002. Right.

10:05 So I, you know, that was UFC 37, I think. So like I kind of had been there for a long time. 38. 38. See?

10:12 Gooden. That was a test. And so, but you know, so that was my first reaction. But you know, that was the wrong reaction because you know, you know what you’re talking about. And, but it is, it was strange to see you in the bow tie and then the accent.

10:24 Whereas, and I think we should talk about this. Where was the state of MMA in the UK before that? Because the UFC came in 02. But I don’t think they came back for a long time. And so for a long time, you had cage rage.

10:36 You know, you had this whole state of MMA, which isn’t what it is today. And you were different, right? Yeah. I think that I. So I’ve been, I’ve been training a long time.

10:49 When did I start training? Probably around 2006, 2007. In mixed martial arts. Before that, I have a background in martial arts and boxing and stuff. But I really fell in love with the sport in terms of the training around then.

11:00 So I was working away and I was part of a fight team. Going to some of these local shows as well. I was cornering people every now and then and I was, I was behind people like Dennis in Sutherland, who’s a real veteran around these parts of London and, and beyond. He was one of the top middleweights. And of course, David Lee, who’s my long time coach who fought at the UFC a couple of times as well.

11:23 So I guess I was at the grassroots level, going around to shows and training and just taking it all on board. But I think that the popularity of the UFC in the UK has gone up and down a little bit. The fans over here knew early on that the UFC really loved them. So they came early. I think they were the first international spot outside of North America.

11:48 So that’s like, oh, well, the UFC must love us, you know, as UK fans. But did all of the cards that followed that always live up to the expectations of the fans? Because us Brits, we want more, right? And we are entitled to these things. So I think that the popularity has gone up and down a little bit.

12:07 But then the international expansion, there’s such a thirst for this great sport of mixed martial arts and the UFC product that it is, but on more shows and that diluted things a little bit. So I think that it has been up and down. But to try and bolster that and satisfy the demand and give fighters the opportunity to fulfill their dream, they need to put on more shows and make it more international. And that’s where great timing, I guess, from working on the local scene has given an opportunity to Dan and I and some other people as well.

12:38 Right. And when you started broadcasting and covering fights, you wanted to put a different face on it because I remember like not wanting to go to like a Cage Rage event here in London because there could be fights in the audience. Could be. Could be. There were.

12:54 Definitely. I mean, it wasn’t pleasant. You know what I mean? It was a little, it was this kind of an underground sport there as opposed to when you go to the UFC, you can go with your grandma. It’s almost like going to an American football game.

13:04 It’s a great night out. It’s a great night out and it has that nice vibe. And so I couldn’t say I would go to the local shows here before and it had the face of the tap out shirts and this kind of thing. And you were always, you always wanted to elevate the sport, right? So I think the driving factor for me was Dave Lee had his own show in Watford called K.O.M.M.A.

13:24 K.A.Y.O. Very clever. And I was typically working with the team. I might be holding pads in the back and just helping people get warm every now and then cornering. And one time I think this female presenter came down from my LA Muscle TV, some obscure digital station.

13:41 And she was doing a backstage gig around one of our fighters and then it just expanded to the whole show. And she did an awful job, bless her. But she didn’t represent the sport how we as a team and probably the community wanted it represented. So I said to Dave, look, why don’t I do that next show? And he said, well, I don’t have any creative input to the content of LA Muscle TV, but why don’t you do some commentary?

14:05 We’re putting some cameras on the cage, we’re recording it and it’d be great for the fighters to watch this back and they can have some commentary as well. It makes it more entertaining. So I was like, okay, well, I’ve never really considered commentary and it actually took me back to a time when I did harvest some interest in becoming a TV presenter after sort of early 20s. And BBC were actually looking for some commentators and I looked it up and said, no, I don’t want to be a commentator.

14:32 But found myself in this spot so I would run around backstage while, you know, amateur guys and girls who have only had like six months experience would be sitting there getting ready to, why don’t I get ready to go into the cage? And I’ll be there, so tell me something, what we got. And there it was so that that’s where it started. I had a dictaphone like so big, plugged a microphone in and it was just me, myself and I laying down a few lyrics and that was it and it just progressed from there.

15:02 Wow. And, you know, you said your mother was always big on pronunciation, enunciation language. Yes. Which is kind of crazy because, you know, you use that now all the time. Yeah.

15:14 That’s your IP now. I think one thing, you know, one of the closing sentences in this interview later might be how I’ve taken everything that I’ve learned, every direction, every turn and seen the positive out of it. So my mum, when my sister and I were really young, we would have to pick up the phone if it ever rang, when we were super young, just to get us more used to that kind of thing. You were never allowed to have the TV on at the table. We would have to have conversations.

15:45 We would be involved in their gatherings with friends. So we’d be interacting with adults as well. Mum was really big on that. Reading was something that she would push on us as well. She used to read bundles.

15:55 So language has been a big part of things. My mum’s actually half Arabic, half Irish and so my grandma, obviously English wasn’t her first language and I’ve heard her use certain terminology as an Arab which hasn’t translated perfectly, but it’s been hilarious. So I’ve always been interested in languages and the construction of things and how people speak very properly. I’ve lost it a little bit. I’d like to go back and I’ve even thought about elocution lessons.

16:26 I nearly didn’t say it correctly, you see. You’ve lost it since broadcasting the last few years. Well, I think from maybe being on building sites and hanging around Watford so much and fight teams rather than with people with great pronunciation. But yes, I think presentation of all sorts. You can’t go wrong with a well-spoken English accent with someone who looks friendly, you know?

16:51 So I think I’ve gone after that. The bow tie thing, because I didn’t answer your question, was more from my boxing background actually. So a lot of amateur boxing events were black tie dudes. You would pay money to sit at a table, you’d have a meal and everyone would be in a tux. So it really was…

17:06 What’s the difference between mixed martial arts and boxing back, you know, late 90s, early 2000s and coming past there? Well, tap out T-shirts and this edgy vibe. So I just kind of went to the whole jacket and shirt and then the bow tie came a little bit after that as well and it stuck. So then I had a big contrast to the Cage Rage presenters who were on TV at the time, who were promoting the sport in the way that they saw fit. I’m not going to dig them out on it, but it wasn’t the way that I would do it, especially when we’re getting such a bad rap from the media.

17:42 Let’s just not play that tune anymore. Let’s just sit back and be a little bit more BBC about it. Yeah, yeah. It’s funny, Steve Jobs said, I think, at a graduation speech that, you know, when you look back at your life, you can connect the dots, you know? But when you look forward, you can’t.

17:58 So, you know, your mom having you do that, you know, and now you’re interested in MMA and then, boom, you did the commentating piece. You passed on the BBC gig, you know? I mean, in retrospect, those were all the right steps to get you to where you are. Yeah. But, you know, it’s funny, because now I see you as kind of the BBC guy, you know?

18:16 And now we start to realize you actually know what you’re talking about, and it’s like, okay, nice. But then I hear that, you know, the whole time you’re commentating for Cage Warriors, you’re still working as an electrician on the side and you’re doing that just to keep this dream alive. It’s an interesting story. Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

18:33 And the response I get from the fans is, wow, I never thought that, you know? And a lot of people don’t believe that I would be an electrician, because, again, that was a weird turn. So I’m a graduate. I worked up here in the city of London doing recruitment for banks. It wasn’t what I wanted to do.

18:49 I actually wanted to be working for the banks, but that didn’t happen, and I’ve always been very impatient. My family are a family of workers, so whereas my mum’s mum was from a very well-heeled family. My great-grandfather was a statesman back in Bahrain. I think their house is like a grade-listed property. They can’t tear it down or something like that.

19:12 So they had staff and all sorts of things like that, but she married this Irishman when she was very young, came over, ended up in a council flat. And life was actually very, very difficult for my mum and my uncles. My dad is working class. My granddad was brought up in North London in Islington. Again, not far from here.

19:33 Worked his whole life, two jobs, postman and chimney sweep. My great-granddad was a pearly king, which was like a Cockney thing, so very much very English. And that work ethic that they brought that whole two-job thing then spilled over to my dad, who to this day works as an electrician, very successfully, but seven days a week. He can’t switch off. We just got back from Iceland.

19:56 He can’t switch off. And so I have that, and my uncles, my mum’s brothers, they’ve always worked two jobs as well. So there’s this thing about earning money, getting out there and doing it, and I never really sat back and looked at the landscape. So I was like, let’s get onto that, let’s try that. Okay, I might be able to work my way into a bank whilst I’m in the city of London.

20:20 And it didn’t quite happen, but then I ended up at the BBC, and I’ll do that, but maybe I’ll become a presenter if I work behind the camera here. And that didn’t quite work, so I jumped around a little bit doing that. But yeah, I’ve always been a bit over-eager. I’ve learnt some lessons about that, and things are changing, thank God. But the electrician thing came out following in my dad’s footsteps.

20:43 A man who works seven days a week, long hours, doesn’t get to see his family a great deal, and I think I wanted to get to know dad a little bit better. I also wanted to prove to my family that I could work hard, like everyone else in the family did, despite my dad always saying when I was young, you know, don’t use these, use this. I ended up kind of propositioning him that I would manage the office for him, and he was like, no, you won’t. If you’re going to do this, you’ll go back to college, you’ll retrain as an electrician, and then no one can pull the wool over your eyes and we’ll grow the business from there.

21:21 So yeah, I was really interested in business. I completely shifted my focus from any dreams of broadcasting, which were kind of left far behind after my little stint at the BBC just didn’t bear fruit in terms of being a presenter. So now I’m in the thick of it as an electrician, back at college, back learning. So again, starting again many times is a theme throughout my career, and I’m not afraid to do it. And yeah, I was working with dad seven days a week, always trying to think about what was coming up, so I ended up getting involved in a whole solar thing when that was happening over here, so I can design and install solar systems, property management system, I can design a home theater for you, and I can put it all on an iPad so that you can connect it all whilst maintaining your electrical system and signing off nightclubs for their licensing for alcohol from an electrical center.

22:19 Right, so you’re multi-talented, and you have all the electrician things covered. Yeah. And so this just happened to stumble into this announcing gig, and then you started enjoying doing these voiceovers, and boom, you just started building on it. And when you were a cage warrior, sometimes you would go around the world announcing for them, and you would sometimes pay them money to do it or pay for your travel, is that true? Should I call Vicars on that?

22:43 Yeah, I need to have a word with him about a couple of hours. I mean, you love this so much, it’s such a passion, I think people forget that it’s not always glamour, you know, when they look at you in that cage or they just assume they’re flying you around the world doing these things. I mean, you’re working two jobs, right? Straight off the… We always had our travel accommodation paid for, and we had a contribution to our mills and things like that.

23:04 But yes, I mean, this was a… It was my passion. I had indulged in mixed martial arts from a practical sense. I was still doing that. Unfortunately, suffered an injury, which meant I was sidelined for a number of years.

23:19 But if that hadn’t happened, I wouldn’t have turned my attention to trying to represent the sport. So, yeah, while I’m working away on site, I would then use my holiday time to then go and call fights in Jordan, Chechnya. Wow, that was an experience. We’ve been to do… But we’ve been all sorts of crazy places around the Middle East.

23:40 Okay. What was crazy about Chechnya? What wasn’t crazy about Chechnya? Was that for cage warriors? Yeah, they did one show over there.

23:46 And you got out alive? I got out alive, clearly. What was it like, really? But I was worried. Okay.

23:53 You know, I think when Graham Boylan, who used to run cage warriors, when he announced that show, a lot of us were like, why? But there was a Middle Eastern backing, and there were obviously some people that said, like, we want to do something in Chechnya. I think there was a Chechen representative, and it was a hotbed. So we ended up going there. And I said to a friend of mine, Steve, who, my best friend, he was the best man at my wedding and vice versa, he runs an insurance book for political risk, war and terrorism.

24:24 He’s an underwriter of that. So he has meetings with security specialists. So I said, Steve, Chechnya, what do you think? Hell no. So how much are you being paid?

24:36 I said, how much are you being paid? And he said, absolutely not. Do not do this. So I sat there, and I was so into what I was doing with cage warriors. We were all building something together.

24:51 It was new, completely new. Graham had taken over this promotion from some other people. I think it had dropped off a little bit. He brought it back. He was fighting really hard.

25:01 I mean, Graham was a ferocious manager. I mean, I didn’t agree with the way that he managed a lot of things, particularly the way that he dealt with me. However, he obviously wasn’t wrong, because it was a success. Yeah. And just so people know, I mean, I was talking about cage rage earlier.

25:16 Cage warriors was really well regarded in this country. They were on television. I went to some of the shows in Kentishtown Forum. That’s right. Because Vickers made me go and pay for these big tables, but that’s a whole other story.

25:29 But it was like, it was quality. It was classy. It was on. It was the best thing the UK had in MMA. I think so, and possibly Europe.

25:37 Yeah. So I think Graham hand-picked some very, very good people. And I’ll take myself out of that equation. But people like Mark Goddard, who is a well-known referee, he’s fantastic, you know, world class. Yeah, he’s great.

25:51 So you had Mark there, and he had a few others. I mean, he brought Joe Martinez in, who’s a Showtime MC for boxing. So everyone was really high level, and he had this call, the matchmaker, Ian Dean, as well, with his values and ethics around the sport, or exactly where they needed to be to make it successful and legitimate. So yeah, we ended up in Chechnya. Graham went out there, I think a day earlier, and they had a police escort from Dagestan to Chechnya.

26:19 You couldn’t buy a flight from London to Chechnya because you were never guaranteed that you were going to get to Moscow, and they would definitely fly that plane. So you’d have to take a bundle of money, and it was just too risky. It was dodgy as hell. So what they could do was they found a legitimate airline way. We would fly to either Germany or Moscow, and then to Dagestan, or just straight to Moscow, and then Dagestan, we picked up Germany on the way back.

26:52 And then that is on the east coast of Dagestan, and Chechnya is all the way away. So we flew into the coast, drove all the way through Dagestan at about 2am, and that’s the most dangerous place in Europe at the time, if you go on the government website. Chechnya is the second most dangerous place in Europe if you go on the government website. So we were ticking both of those off in one journey. And just, it was automatic guns at every checkpoint, every kind of hour, dogs running loose, and it’s just flashlights in the side of this minibus, with Joe Martinez, myself, and some crew just going, oh, I am boiling.

27:32 What have you dragged us into? He had guns pointed at him apparently throughout that week. The show was going to be pulled at one point. Oh, it was so stressful. How was the show in the end?

27:44 Intimidating, because we were announcing the fights. There were a lot of local fighters there? Yeah, a lot of local fighters. Great wrestlers there, right? Yeah.

27:52 Kadyrov, who is the leader of Chechnya, was there as well. A big military theme to the whole thing. I think the way that it’s a military state, I think, pretty much. It wasn’t that long ago where they were in a horrendous conflict. So it’s still in the memory of a lot of people there.

28:07 And you can see it on their faces. So, yes, lucky and happy to get out of there unscathed. Let me ask you about someone that you knew early on in Cage Warriors. And I would argue you might have the most unique perspective on Mr. Conor McGregor.

28:22 Because not only did you cover his fight in Dublin, which was something out of just madness, I believe, at the time, but you saw him up and coming in this organization. You called his fight with Joe Duffy that he lost in Cage Warriors. And then you watched him emerge after that. And lately, there’s been some videos on YouTube where you see this really young Conor McGregor, and it’s these old shots. Maybe it’s from Cage Warrior interviews.

28:45 I don’t know. Where you see this guy without the persona and the cockiness, and he’s just talking. You can tell he loves it. You can tell he just loves mixed martial arts. And then you see him coming up.

28:55 What was it like to watch him coming up? Did you know there would be something special there? And what’s it been like to watch him now that you’re both in the UFC? It’s incredible, right? We needed stars in order to progress our sport.

29:12 And we need them in many different molds. And Conor is just the most unique mold. And it’s not contrived. So when I first met Conor, it was obvious that this kid was full of beans. So the most simple way I can really put it is he’s just been given a platform where he can turn the volume up.

29:31 It was always there. He just needed an opportunity to really express himself, both in terms of a martial artist and then this other side, his character, which is fantastic. It’s a beautiful thing to have watched. But I didn’t foresee this happening when he threw down with Joe Duffy. I mean, those guys were two people that we were talking about.

29:55 They weren’t… I don’t even know if they were like main card. And it was just these two guys that just clashed super quickly in the middle of the… I think that clash or Duffy got a cut and it was over within, you know, seconds. Duffy was a very good jiu-jitsu player, a traditional Japanese jiu-jitsu.

30:14 And it went down to the canvas very quickly. And I think he got a submission there. But every time that Conor McGregor was on a card, he would just bring this kind of energy where he would come up for the weigh-ins and he’d be right in someone’s face. I remember one fight. I think it was against Dave Hill when he fought for the featherweight title.

30:35 Brooke, who was one of the very lovely cage girls at Cage Warriors, she was thrown off of the stage. The backdrop went flying. And McGregor was… He just shot onto that stage and Dave Hill didn’t know what was going on. I mean, he was a talented martial artist and a really nice guy.

30:51 And he just wasn’t ready for that. And he lost it, there and then, in that moment. He was getting into people’s heads even back then. Yeah. Okay.

31:00 It’s been working for him for years. But when you add the audience, when you add the lights, when you add the cameras and you turn that volume up, that intimidation factor… And what a beautiful orator. I mean, people don’t always look at what he actually says. They just listen to it.

31:22 They don’t hear it. But, you know, the bits that are always played about, we’re here to take over. I’m doing it with the Irish behind me and I’m not saying it’s calculated, but brilliant. Right. You’ve just enlisted an army, you know?

31:37 Because they are a smaller nation. And they’re passionate. And I think that they needed, from speaking with my Irish friends, they needed something in this time period to really help them through some of the hardship that I think a lot of people have been experiencing around Europe. And I like to call him a European as well. He would probably hate that.

31:59 But we’ll take it. And it’s been fascinating. He’s a wonderful study. I get to interview him quite a lot because I do producer work as well for the UFC. But commentating on that fight, 2014, in Dublin, was probably the highlight of my career for a few different reasons.

32:20 Can you describe what it was like being there? It was sensational. It was bonkers, madness, intense, hot. Hot? Yeah.

32:33 Because Conor had won two or three in a row in the UFC now at this point? Yeah. And he was fighting… Brand out, yeah. And he was in the number seven rank.

32:40 He was just making his way up, right? Yeah, yeah. And the first time as UFC is in Dublin maybe? Or second time? Yeah.

32:46 Come back, yeah. But it was a smaller arena for the UFC. I think it was like 9, 10,000 that were fitting in there. But they tried to put as many as they could because, again, the audience were very close to us. And I just remember looking around.

33:02 And it wasn’t just Conor that created the atmosphere that night. It was all of the Irish guys plus Gunnar Nelson because they cleaned up. They all won. From the very first fight, they created this momentum and the Irish just loved it. They lapped it up.

33:20 It was absolutely fantastic. That level of support is just… You’ve just got to give them a round of applause. Give yourselves a pat on the back because you fans are just brilliant and we’ll come back for this, no doubt. So they were being roused by their fighters.

33:37 They’re getting behind it. It was celebratory. And you just couldn’t help but feel that positive energy. You said one time that you’re sitting next to the cage in between the fighters and the fans. And you said that you feel the wave of positive energy pass through your body.

33:52 Yeah. Can you explain that? I don’t know if I… I think the only way I can… I can only explain it because, you know, the difference of going to another job, when particularly on a construction site, on a building site, where there’s all kinds of noise, there’s all kinds of things in the air, dust and stuff like that.

34:15 So there’s many tangibles. But then I go to another place of work where the atmosphere is positive because there’s not a lot of booing. And if there is booing, it’s short-lived. There’s a lot of respect in mixed martial arts. But yes, you still get…

34:31 People have their favourites, of course. But when you’ve got that amount of cheering and the octagon is round, a ring is right in the middle as well. So everything’s firing to the epicentre, that centre point of the octagon. And I’m right outside that. So everything’s coming through you to hit those fighters to encourage them to perform.

34:51 And you can’t help but just feel that energy, especially if you try and live in that moment, especially if you really try and breathe it, taste it. As a broadcaster, it’s your job. Yeah, yeah. You know, you’re not there. You want to give people at home a taste of what is this like?

35:08 Sometimes that’s hard because you’re fiddling with volume buttons because you need to hear your producers and directors and all of this kind of stuff. So you put them down a little bit. But every now and then I take the cans off and I’ll just try and listen. And I always smile. Whatever it might be, booing, but mostly cheering.

35:26 And you’re like, wow, this is unbelievable. And what is it like for that athlete walking to the octagon right now? I can never imagine. But the closest thing I get to it is being a part of this wonderful promotion and playing a part by trying to represent these athletes. Yeah, which is super important.

35:43 Oh, yeah. When you saw Conor win the 45 and 55 belt in Cage Warriors, which a lot of people don’t even know, that he was working his way up through those ranks. I think probably Duffy was the last loss he had in a long time. Yeah. So he’s working his way up.

35:57 He’s got those belts. When he’s going into the UFC, are you thinking he’s got a good shot to go really far? Or again, you just don’t know how he’s going to stack up with these other guys? No, I think there are certain fighters where it’s almost like the people around them have held them back a little bit. But see out this chapter.

36:15 Don’t just… And I don’t begrudge anyone who… Not shortcut. I don’t think there are many shortcuts. But you can go on the Ultimate Fighter Show and you will find a way through into the UFC that way.

36:27 And you might not have even won it, but you still get picked up. Or you can go on a win streak on a local promotion and you might not be fighting the very top of Europe. But Conor McGregor really was the best in Europe. So if you’re the best in Europe, there’s a damn good chance you’re going to do very, very well on the world stage as well. So he was still growing and there was definitely a hunger to get better.

36:56 He is obsessed, completely obsessed. And I know he says it. I’ve asked him the questions. I’ve been in the room. We’ve sat like this and he’s broken down.

37:09 Such a shame it never got aired. He broke down the 14 seconds of the Jose Aldo fight in front of me. He didn’t stay in his chair. He got up. He showed every feign, every twitch, every movement what it meant.

37:22 He spent nearly five minutes doing this. And he apparently wrote down on two pages of A4 the feedback from just, I think he called it 11 seconds, he said, because you take out the other bits. You crop those and then you only get 11 seconds of action. I was just blown away. He lives and breathes this.

37:40 And I’ve noticed that from very early on. Yeah, Kavanaugh says that he can’t get him to shut down on a Sunday. And I think part of that new routine after the first Diaz fight and the loss was to go back in and say, OK, let’s put some structure in here and some rest days. Because I know he even admitted it was like, if I’m up, I’m training or thinking about fighting and just going full out. But you’ve been over at SBG recently, right?

38:03 And you’ve interviewed him many times, right? Yeah, a few times. And I think another thing that Conor was doing, which again, I give him a lot of respect for because he certainly changed it up, was he was working on Conor time. So as a producer, you obviously organised this show as well. So what are we doing today?

38:23 I don’t really know. I’ll let you know about an hour before. Now, as a producer, you’re sitting there thinking, this guy’s a big star. Are we even going to get him? How can I go back to my employer and say, I didn’t get him today.

38:38 I didn’t get what you needed because I never pushed him for it. He doesn’t have a schedule or didn’t have a schedule before. It was always, well, I’ll get up. I’ll see how I feel. And then I’ll go and do whatever it might be.

38:53 So I think he was very much on his own clock and it worked for a while. But he realised that he needed to do something different and obviously had a word with his coaches and they put a plan together. And if anyone was starting to doubt John Kavanagh at that point, he just put another few stripes on his coat by coming up with another way of managing the most popular, fastest-growing, highest-profile all-bar Ronda Rousey athlete that we have in combat sports and Mayweather, probably, if we bring him in in the boxing thing.

39:29 Yeah, which you might be brought in shortly. Yes. I want to ask you about that, too. But while we’re on Kavanagh, straight blast gym, you’ve been over there. You’ve probably known Kavanagh behind the scenes for many years.

39:39 Yeah. What is it about it that makes that place special? When you go over there, what does it feel? Does it feel different? Because you’ve been to lots of MMA gyms around the world.

39:48 Yeah. Well, it’s the people that make it different and the coaching staff and then the guys and girls themselves. So the four walls are just four walls. You train martial arts, you pick that up and put it anywhere. If you’ve got the wrong coaches, then the formula’s not right.

40:07 So it’s definitely the people that they’ve got, the respect that they have for John, the way that he coaches his methodologies. But every time I go back, that place just gets busier and busier and busier. It actually ended up on a Dublin tourist tour. John was telling me how all of a sudden he was getting a load of non-Dubliners just coming through the door with cameras, taking loads of pictures of the gym. And then someone on the desk found out that they had put the gym on the tour of Dublin, which just goes to show you the power of what they have created there.

40:43 It’s unbelievable. But yeah, I really do enjoy going back there just to see how they’ve progressed again. And John’s now got so many franchises around Ireland, which is a small place. He’s got dozens of these places. His time is…

40:57 The way that he has to manage his time must be very, very challenging. Very challenging. It seems like when I look at Straight Blaston, I haven’t been over there to visit, but it seems like it’s a bunch of young guys, at least they were five, eight years ago, that just decided to do things their way. So it’s not grandfathered in with an old Gracie or an old AKA. So it’s like their way of doing things, which is like a fresh look at the way they do it.

41:21 Yeah, and I don’t think that they’re scared to try new things. If something doesn’t work, they’re open to it. But John has set things up in a very clever way so that if he’s not around, other people can fill in as well. He really does, I think, go back and top the cups up here on there so you can take care of that. And he just breeds that knowledge sharing and that enthusiasm.

41:45 And I guess when you have the success of Conor in that gym as well, I mean, it works wonders. Yeah, that’s ridiculous. I had Edo Portal in the studio, I guess probably now two years ago, and we were talking about Conor. He hadn’t met him yet. And then he went and trained with him, and afterwards he was telling me and he told everyone that just the fact that John Cavanaugh would allow him to come in and just embrace him and listen to him, he’s like, I’m just really surprised because most teachers would be closed, they would be possessive.

42:13 Yeah. And so it sounds like John just has a completely different vibe. Yeah, and it’s an interesting one about Edo. So I’m still trying to work this out and I don’t want to take credit for something, especially if I’m wrong, but I had discovered Edo’s program a long time ago, and I recently posted the email that I’d sent to whoever it was that was managing it years and years back before he was working with Conor, because essentially the injury I alluded to earlier was I blew my back out.

42:38 So I was trying to strengthen my core and movement was something that I’d looked into, and this guy, Edo, was crazy, his show reel. I think it was with, I can’t remember the interview that he had. Anyway, I’d seen this stuff blown away, reached out to him, it was quite expensive. At the time I was like, I’m so injured I don’t know whether I’d even get the benefits of it. And I remember that John was talking to his students about primal movement.

43:03 They would often be sat like this, bolt upright, and they would be talking about the ape movement of this, that, and the other. And I sent John a mail on Facebook saying, what about this guy? What do you think about this? And that’s the kind of guy he is. He kind of attracted that knowledge sharing.

43:22 So I was just a commentator, he’s not my coach, but I understood from conversations we’d had that it might interest him, and I wanted to get his view. And lo and behold, it’s not long after that that Connor is working with Edo, and John said someone once sent me something about this guy, Edo, and I shared it with Connor, and they started working together. Now, I don’t know if it was that email that I sent him, but I know that I definitely shared it with them.

43:46 So there you go. Yeah, well, they were definitely watching Edo’s stuff. I mean, maybe it was after you sent him that, they were aware of it, and obviously Connor was doing a lot of lizard walks, and then Edo was in here, I think it was 2015, and we were talking about him, and he’s like, I want to meet him, and I like him because he’s a loud mouth. That’s what Edo said. It was a clip that we did that did really well.

44:05 And then I went to one of Edo’s two-day movement experiences here in London, and I was blown away, just because it really challenged my brain, even more than my body. And yeah, after that, I kind of did an intro to him in Kavanaugh, and then I think he was with Connor a couple months later, so it just kind of moved on from there. And then I’m watching Edo and Connor doing lizard walks on the UFC open workout, and I’m just like, this is crazy. You know, that was like five months later.

44:31 And they’re not scared to show this. Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s almost brave because they’ve broken a mold. Who doesn’t bring on a guy holding mitts and then swap him out for a wrestling partner? That’s just, that’s how it’s done.

44:46 Then you’ve got Connor bringing out this guy, Edo, doing stuff that most people have not seen being done. It was brave. It was forward-thinking. And I think Connor’s given Edo a bit of a break now because I think they got a lot of stick from some of the, maybe the Diaz, the first Diaz fight, but he’s still working with him, and I still see him, he probably doesn’t need to have him around all the time because he’s spent so much time. He knows how to work his body to warm it up and keep supple and introduce those movement patterns to his warm-up and his warm-down as well.

45:20 Yeah, plus Edo’s busy. I mean, he constantly travels and teaches seminars. I’m sure that association hasn’t been bad for him. Yeah, I mean, and he just circles the globe, you know, teaching, teaching, teaching. So yeah, hasn’t been bad, but like, yeah, Edo’s, you know, he’s oversubscribed, as I would say.

45:36 Always, you know, and so that’s his, he has this nomadic life of teaching, so. Yeah. Yeah, I hope to hook up with him again soon. So, you know, I was thinking about it the other day. I’m from America, right?

45:46 And yet the biggest star in fighting right now is Irish. And I’m always trying to figure out why. You know, we’ve seen brash people before, but, you know, and we’ve seen brash people that win, but why, why, Connor? And have you ever got it around your head why he’s become the superstar? Okay, 18 months ago, we didn’t know if it was Rhonda or him, but clearly now he is, of course, the superstar with the longevity.

46:09 Have you figured it out? There’s certainly obvious ingredients. Someone who can create a headline with every single line that he speaks. Gooden-looking fella. Exceptional at what he does.

46:30 So he has all of those things. Have you ever read the book Outliers? I know. It’s nothing to have or no. Is it him?

46:39 No, no, it’s not. It’s another guy. It’s another guy, yeah. This book kind of saved me a little bit because it just showed how it’s sometimes down to circumstances. Like, if you wanted to be a hockey player, apparently ice hockey player, you needed to be born within the months of January and March because when you were coming up through the school program, you would physically be at your biggest, and then the guys who were born in the latter months, they were just underdeveloped.

47:09 So the teachers never really invested their time in them, they didn’t get the extra time on the ice, and all of a sudden, 85% of the professional hockey players were born between January and March, and it was all down to the school year and how that is figured out. I think they also said something about Bill Gates as well and the state in which he grew up in. Yeah, three years before or after, it would have never happened. Yeah, exactly that. So we’re at a time in our sport where we’d shed quite a lot of the negativity.

47:43 People were starting to give us a chance. International expansion was happening. Some of the biggest stars were kind of tailing off. Chael Sonnen was someone who was using his mouth very, very well in an articulate way, and then you’ve got someone who speaks with an accent who’s a bit refreshing, different, and he has a wow factor. He’s similar to Chael in a way, so it’s like, we know that works, and it just…

48:11 I don’t actually know, but I kind of take a timing thing as well as the core ingredients. I don’t want to take anything away from Connor. Just everything that he had, plus the timing, has worked out magically for him. Yeah. And the sport.

48:25 Yeah, no, definitely, and we didn’t think it’d go any further than Chael at the time. I mean, he was just… We never thought it would go any further than Chuck. Yeah. Liddell.

48:33 Yeah, Liddell, right, and that talker, and then Connor took her to another level. And one thing about Connor, I think he said something, is that when he’s there at those press conferences, I don’t feel like he’s ever putting on a show, because as he said, he’s acting congruent with how he feels in the moment. And so with the Aldo World Tour, he was going crazy, going crazy, snatching belts, but when it came down to the week before the fight, the press was like, ah, Connor’s going to give us a lot of juice stuff here, and he was just like, no, I don’t have anything to say.

49:00 It’s like five days before, he was like, I don’t have anything to say. And it’s just like, he’s who he feels like being… On that day. On that day, and I think we connect with that, because it’s real. Yeah.

49:11 And this is it. You get found out. If you’re contrived, you’ll get found out. You have to be real. I kind of look at other American broadcasters working on an, essentially, an American program.

49:23 Do I be more like these guys? I’m like, well, not really, because people will see through it, and I’ll only be able to keep it up for so long before I will result back to type. So, yeah, he is who he is. He doesn’t turn off. He is obsessed with it.

49:41 But he’s always thinking about this stuff, and I think that he just enjoys it. I think you’ve lived over here for a while now. We have a pub culture where we will sit down in a pub together with our friends and tear strips off of one another. From the moment we walk through the door, like, if I walked in a pub like there would be our, you know, why do you look this certain? Why are there this, that, and the other?

50:03 Jeans are too tight. What are those socks? They’re ridiculous. They’re hideous. If I didn’t come back with it, are you going to say anything?

50:09 If you can’t offer anything so that you might as well leave now? It’s just, my friends are on me. Like, as soon as you get through the door of the bar. So, in a social situation, this side of the pond, we’re quite used to being pretty nasty to one another. And I think, and the Irish have a great sense of humor.

50:26 They love that kind of thing, which is why the Irish and the English have always done very well at going tat-tat-tat, you know, in a social way. So, all you’ve done is take a very natural social situation for someone who would definitely be the top of the tree in the group and the guy that you wouldn’t want to, you know, have a dig at you because your comeback needed to be on point. And you’ve just given him, you know, the spotlight. So, everything has worked out very nicely for him.

50:50 And so, that cultural element as well, I think, has worked in his favor. Yeah. And I think the Americans, they have a soft spot for the Irish or a foreigner or someone coming in. Like, I think they like that and they rally around. And I think the Irish really like the American style of things as well.

51:10 Because they are quite bold and they’re quite loud as well when they want to be and they’re excitable. And, of course, American broadcasting is like that as well. Whereas the British were quite reserved, you know. Like, so with a bow tie and slightly more quiet. But, yeah, I think that the Irish is almost like an in-between from the English to an American audience as well.

51:33 So, that buoyancy of having the crowd behind him and lifting him and championing him, because they buy into what essentially has been a predominantly American feature. Yeah, it’s going to be fun to watch. Absolutely. So, Mike Goldberg just left the UFC. Rumor is you’re going to America and you and Rogan are going to do all the shows next year.

51:52 What a terrible rumor that is. You heard it here first, not by the real. Yeah, you heard it here first. No, that’s not the case. Listen, I would love to have a go at working in America.

52:06 I think you’ve always got to push to be wanted, to get out of your comfort zone and try and be better at what you do. And I think pay-per-view is the biggest show in the UFC. So, for me to say that I wouldn’t want to do a pay-per-view event would be foolish. So, I’d love to do it. However, there is John Anick, who’s been around a long time and he deserves that spot.

52:31 I don’t know whether he’s going to be the guy that they put into that role. There’s a lot of changes with IMG, WME, buying out the UFC and having access to a lot of big stars. Who knows which way it’s going to go. But, I’m happy to be here. However, I would love the opportunity in the future.

52:49 But, it’s crazy to think that Mike’s not going to be on a broadcast anymore. You know, love him or hate him. He’s been part of this for so many years. He’s like the godfather for guys like me. I’ve genuinely looked up to the guy.

53:06 I mean, I have a very different way of broadcasting to him but I massively appreciate the way that he broadcast and was commentating the fights in the UFC and he made it his own, he owned it. And he delivered this massive consistency. Goldberg always delivered Goldberg. Enough to where you just… He has isms, right?

53:29 It was like the sun rising. He was always there doing the isms and doing things. I still one day will find out the situation. I remember two or three years ago he missed a New Year’s show and it was like, oh, is Goldberg leaving? So, who knows?

53:42 Look, that’s a hard job. We had John Anick in here about three and a half years ago and he did a London show and he was telling me his schedule and it was just like everybody says they want that job but like, man, I mean, that’s a hard job. There’s a lot of work, there’s a lot of flying, there’s a lot of broadcasting and it’s demanding. The amount of shows that Anick does is unbelievable. And just hats off to International Fight Week.

54:07 He’ll do two out of the three cards. For those that don’t know, International Fight Week is in the summer and the UFC go to town. They take over Vegas, they have a big expo and they put on a lot of events, three events. So, John will work the commentary desk on two of those and then typically on the pay-per-view, the third one, he’ll be working for Fox on their desk, on the analyst desk. So, I don’t know how he does it.

54:33 You know, that’s an obscene amount of fighters that you’ve got to watch and you can’t get them confused and they’ve got to be separated out. And then you’ve got to get onto the next one and have the same amount of energy. He is a stud at this. And I think he’s a fantastic broadcaster. I see, I look at a lot of people, of course.

54:52 You know, I’m always looking around thinking, what’s the best way to do this? I’ve watched ice skating, horse racing, cycling. I’ll try and grab something from everyone just to give a different flavor. If I like the way people are phrasing things, I’ll see how I can make that relevant for combat sports. And John has this speed of delivery, so smooth as well, delivering a super amount of information in a very short space of time.

55:24 And he does it very, very eloquently. I’m very jealous of the way that he can do that. But then he does that and delivers on a number of shows and then flies around the world and, yeah, careful what you wish for, I think sometimes. That’s a little crazy. What would a Rogan Gooden show feel like, do you think?

55:42 Like, you know, what would be the vibe? The internet would break, wouldn’t it? Having an Englishman and Joe Rogan on the same forecast. You never know. I don’t know.

55:53 It would be something. I love my partnership with Dan and we’ve got some very important work to do together, a shared ambition we have to really promote this sport as Europeans, as Brits. But of course, if I had the opportunity to work with Brian Stan, I’ve worked with Kenny, but Joe Rogan’s the guy. He’s the guy, you know? He has redefined the way that commentary and mixed martial arts is done, him and Mike.

56:21 And an interesting point about that as well. I’m actually trying to change the way that it’s done because I’m from a fight background and I understand way more than just the boxing and kickboxing ranges, when we start in the clinch, when we get it to the ground, when people are passing, when they’re attempting submissions. Proper sports commentary. That’s, let me take that back. Other sports commentary.

56:47 If it’s soccer, for example, football, X player passes the ball left to right, free kick, shoots a free kick, scores, lays out, analyst comes in. But it seems a lot of the time in mixed martial arts now we have striking components. Wrestling, ground work, play-by-play guy lays out why. I don’t always do that and thankfully Dan allows me to do that as well, but what’s the difference? So I’m gradually trying to change that a little bit, just because I think it makes sense.

57:22 The analyst is there to analyze it, whereas the play-by-play guy is there to tell what’s going on. And that’s not necessarily second-guessing the next move, but if you know that a kimura’s coming up and it’s a shoulder lock, then say it as it is. So I would probably challenge Joe in that broadcast move. We’d have to get that right because, of course, he’s so used to just picking that up and then running with every single beat of how that plays out. It would be something that I’d like to explore.

57:55 Yeah, it’s going to be interesting to see how he deals with the next person. I did one with Anik, I think when Goldberg missed that show a couple of years ago and it was good, but yeah, everyone has their nuance and style. So it’s funny, I used to go to the O2 here when the UFC was there like six, seven years ago when Rampage fought, and I would miss the commentary. So I’d be up in a box watching the thing and I was like, where’s Rogan in my ear? And so it’s such a crucial part of the match, just having great commentators, so super important.

58:24 I want to talk about Dan Hardy and what it’s like working with him, you mentioned UFC recently sold four point whatever billion to WME. We’ve seen some UFC staff go. We’ve seen the Fertitas go. Dana seems to be Dana again, charging forward again. What do you see the changes are going to be going forward?

58:44 Are there going to be any changes or will it be the UFC as we kind of know it? Well, there’s clearly changes in key personnel behind the scenes, front and center as well. So straight away, there are changes. I think that when you have a fresh set of eyes, we have to think positively. The amount of wallop that IMG and WME bring is scary, and it’s scary good.

59:18 The access that they bring, the resources, the ideas, what have they done with the Red Bull side of things, with all different sports and fashion, entertainment, there’s a lot of competencies there that, of course, we need to learn in mixed martial arts. As an aside, I did a little bit of stuff in the triathlon world and there’s just a different level of science. When there’s a lot of money involved in something, it attracts a certain caliber and level of person.

59:50 So now you’re going to get brands more involved. Reebok signed up, Monster have signed up, Harley Davison have signed up, IMG, WME have now attached themselves to this as well, which has big A-list celebrities talking about mixed martial arts. More people are kind of looking around going, What is this? Meryl Streep. I’ll get to that.

1:00:10 But you’re saying they bring all this next level stuff? Hopefully so. Next level stuff. And it’s just, they’re so experienced in this that they’re not going to come and ruin this. They’re here to make their money back.

1:00:22 So they’re going to invest in this. It’s very, very exciting. For example, Dan and I, who are working out of the UK here, we have a couple of shows that we do. We had them with a smaller production house, which worked brilliantly before. But now we’ve got IMG’s facilities.

1:00:38 Dan and I went and visited the other week. It’s crazy. You guys were in Shepherd’s Bush before? We were in Shepherd’s Bush before and it was a real kind of family business vibe. And I knew the guy that owned the production house and he would come down and say hello to us.

1:00:56 I’m not sure that we’re going to get the same at IMG because there are just so many layers. But there were Premier League footballers running through the halls when I went to visit the studio and things like this. So there are other people, so you’re looking around and everyone’s got to raise their game. We’ve got new production staff that have worked on international sports that are going to bring fresh eyes, bigger space, bigger resources. Our Inside the Octagon show is about to get a real fresh new look.

1:01:23 It’s super exciting. So these sorts of things are things that we and the no need to talk about because there’s a lot of change and people are afraid of change. So when it’s positive, like what I think it’s going to be, then yeah, we’re going to shout from the rooftops about it as well. But that’s not being disrespectful to the old school people that have gone before. I have no control over that, but we have to keep marching forward and making this sport better, more mainstream, so that these athletes, and I’d like to underline this, I do this mostly for the athletes to get the money and recognition that they deserve so that they can stand side by side with other mainstream athletes.

1:02:03 Amen to that. Dana said it really very clearly recently. He said, look, me and the Petito brothers, we took this as far as we could. I mean, look, there were guys that owned some casinos and bought this organization when they were just learning jiu-jitsu themselves. They did an amazing thing with it, but they only got it so far.

1:02:20 And Dana said, I think they played one of the fight cards in repeat that was one of the pay-per-view ones for like a Christmas Eve special or something in the States. And Dana said, he said, I couldn’t get that done. I had to call Ari. And Ari got it done because it was like on Fox somewhere. And he’s like, Ari got that done.

1:02:38 It was like a prime time where usually like a Christmas movie would be. They replayed one of the UFC pay-per-view events that the public hadn’t seen before. Apparently they did crazy numbers. And he’s like, I couldn’t get that deal done. And I have a deal with Fox.

1:02:49 Ari made the phone call. So he’s like, this is next level stuff. This is getting into China stuff. This is, like you said, major brands. So I’m glad you’re optimistic.

1:02:57 And like you said, it brings you all sorts of resources and it forces you to step your game up too. Of course. We’ve all got to raise our game in it. And as much as unshaky ground can bring fear, you know, you got to park that and just do what you can do now. And we have to take the, we always have to take the positive.

1:03:18 And yeah, I don’t see any, I can only see more expansion internationally and hopefully I’m going to be a part of that. And I think that offers up more opportunities for everyone. Talk to me about Dan Hardy. You have a special relationship with him. Who’s that guy?

1:03:34 Yeah, who’s that guy? You guys are probably closer than most couples. I mean, you guys spent some interesting time. I know a lot of long hours analyzing these shows. Look, Dan has been a crucial part of London Real.

1:03:46 You know, our interview with him three and a half years ago was one of the biggest at the time. He had just gotten his Wolfheart diagnosis. He was like thinking he was going to leave the sport, coming off, you know, an amazing career. He spoke really openly here about ayahuasca and psychedelics and about everything because that’s who Dan was. And I remember after the show, I said, Dan, I know you’re talking to the UFC right now.

1:04:09 How can you talk about that stuff? And remember he told me, he said, Brian, he said, when I’ve been honest, I’ve attracted great people into my life. Point blank, that’s what he said. So he’s like, that’s why I don’t put a cut on what I say. And I was like, man, that doesn’t say enough about Dan.

1:04:25 I don’t know what else does. And so when I saw you guys pair up, it was interesting. I don’t know if you knew him before. And now to see what Dan’s done with this analyst role, it’s crazy because you guys go deeper on analyzing fights than anybody in America that I’ve seen. And you guys can spend 20 minutes breaking down a fight where it’s like, wow, you break down some Rousey fights and some Conor McGregor fights and everything you do.

1:04:46 I mean, it’s really new, new things that you guys do. So tell me a little bit about your relationship with Dan. Did you guys like each other at first? Did you know each other? And how’d you get into this vibe where you guys seem to work really well together?

1:04:58 Well, I obviously knew Dan, but Dan didn’t have a scooby who I was. Translate that cockney rhyme. Oh, yeah, sorry. Scooby-doo clue. Scooby-doo clue.

1:05:07 Yeah, he didn’t have a clue who I was. And I think the first thing to say is I’m very grateful that he gave me a chance from the beginning. This is a guy that fought for a world title. I walk into a room and I’m like, hey, buddy, we could possibly be working together. If you could let me do this, and I will try and open up so that I can make you sound as good as we can.

1:05:31 And he listened to me, you know, my spiel about, oh, I train, you know, I’ve competed a little bit. And there’s a guy that’s, he was interested, and he’s fought for a world title. And he saw how, in relative terms, it was important to me to tell him about my martial arts journey and other things as well, which we can come on to. But Dan Hardy is a great human being. That’s the sentence.

1:05:57 He’s just a good guy. Really nice guy, very evolved. A lot of friends come to me for advice about stuff. I’ve trodden a lot of boards. I’ve worked in lots of different environments.

1:06:10 I’ve been in lots of different kinds of relationships. So I think I’ve experienced a lot of stuff. And I’ve always, I can always offer something up. And Dan and I, we have a relationship now where we, you know, we talk about what’s going on. And I’ll try and offer something to Dan.

1:06:24 He’s got it covered. He’s got it covered. Every time he’s thought about that, he’s so well thought out, not to the point where he procrastinates and gets to sort of paralysis stage. But he’s just, he’s so evolved. His mind’s so open and he’s super creative.

1:06:39 He’s just on a, he just resonates and vibrates at a different level to most people. And it’s been a massively positive influence on my life. I’ve just grabbed onto his coattails. I knew that he’d be a star. When we were going through the whole screen testing process, the UFC were talking to me about, who do you think would be good in this role?

1:07:00 And I said that there were three people who would, who the fans would be okay with. Dan Hardy, Ian Freeman, and Ian Freeman actually might be surprised that I say that because I don’t think he was very complimentary about me when I joined the UFC, but I put his name forward, and Michael Bisbing. Michael Bisbing was still competitive. And they obviously made the calls. And Dan Hardy was, I’m sure, at the top of their list at the time.

1:07:29 So they made that pairing, and we screen tested together. And I knew some people that knew Dan, so that made it a little easier. His manager at the time was very good to me and allowed me some air time with him so that I could get some messages across and whatnot. But from the get-go, Dan was like, okay, let’s see how this goes. He was open, and I’m super grateful.

1:07:52 And now we’ve never had a crossword. He helps me out with lots of stuff. I learn from him all the time. I think he sees the honest enthusiasm that I have for this sport. I’m not as, how you might have thought when he first saw me on BT Sports, I’m not crashing the party.

1:08:10 I’ve been here a while. Hopefully, I add value. And I hopefully add value to his broadcasting style. We definitely have defined roles. People want to hear the analytical stuff from Dan.

1:08:24 They don’t want to hear it from me. Whether I know it or not makes no sense for it to come from me. But I think the relationship that Dan and I have, and we can be very candid, we can sometimes have a real laugh with it. And I think that the audience appreciate that. Dan said to me before sometimes when I’ve tried to rehearse lines, because I’m still wanting to be a better broadcaster.

1:08:45 I’m not going to sit here and tell you. Even though I’m an international broadcaster, I don’t think I’m top of my game. No way. And he said to me before, John, forget the script, dude. We talk about fights all the time.

1:08:58 We stood either side of a TV for a UFC breakdown show. And I threw it down and we just did it. And he’s like, that’s so much better. And I needed that, you know? I needed that.

1:09:09 And so he helps me in many different ways. I’m a bit of a stress head. The energy of fight week gets to me. Dan’s been around the fans and has had that exposure, knows what’s coming. And he’s much more relaxed with it than I am.

1:09:22 But through his guidance, through experience, I’ve learned how to deal with that a lot better. And now I’m saying stuff to him like when he’s during a broadcast, he likes to go online. I’m like, dude, let’s just stay in this moment. Forget about that until after. He’ll have his own answers for me about that one.

1:09:39 But yeah, we have a great relationship. It’s just so great to be in a working environment where you get on with someone. I can go to work with Dan and there’s no problems. And I enjoy it and I hope he feels the same way. And did you ever know he’d be such a good analyst?

1:09:54 Yeah, I think I did. Because I think of the way that he’s always expressed himself, the way that he’s supported and what’s the word? He’s been challenged on martial arts before and the way that he’s defended it has been very eloquent. And despite appearances, this guy will blow you away with his use of language and the way in which he’ll make you understand something in a very unique way that you wouldn’t have prepared for. So I knew that he would turn his hand to that.

1:10:32 But yeah, he’s probably exceeded my expectations and the level that he goes to in order to prepare for the shows that we do. It’s obscene what he does. Yeah, a borderline crazy obsessive. I think I asked him when he was on here, like, did you ever know that you’d be a good analyst? And he’s like, I thought I would be, but I never knew I could lock in and really go deep and see all these things.

1:10:54 I think he said he used to think he saw it kind of back in the day, but now he feels like he’s even on the top of his analyst game. Yeah, he’ll take himself in front of a mirror and behave like the subject he’s analyzing. Okay. And he’ll move like them to try and embody what he’s seen. And I think that’s part martial artists for selfish reasons.

1:11:15 It’s like, oh, what can I take from them? Can I move like that? But also, it just puts him in that frame for when we do the show, he’s felt it physically as well as analytically. So always through, he’s got it covered. Yeah.

1:11:29 All right, I want to hear about veganism and Iron Men, but before we do that, just want to get your kind of closing thoughts, maybe it’s not closing, but thoughts just on the Ronda Rousey experience, because I was thinking about it the other day when I was walking back from the gym, and I was just like, man, did that just happen? Did that two-year period just happen? And you know the sport well. You saw it coming up. You were in the UFC when she was up and down.

1:11:51 What do you make of that in all retrospect of the crazy rise she had to that last fight? When you tell this as a human story, maybe to your children one day, how are you going to frame what happened with Ronda Rousey? Well, she was a trailblazer for sure. She was the one that opened the doors. Whether she liked it or not, I think she did like it.

1:12:22 But with that comes a great sense of responsibility. And she shouldered that responsibility for a long time. But such is the sport that your mixed martial arts career then becomes part of a portfolio career, where you’re then looking at all of these other things. The fight game is such a hard way to earn your money. So you have these other options.

1:12:44 And I think if you stop fighting, then you tail off. Your popularity tails off, and other things don’t necessarily come on the back of that, apart from maybe being a coach. So you’re trying to run these things side by side, but this is the fight game, and it’s the toughest combat sport out there. It embodies everything. And you’ve always got to be leveling up, because everyone else has seen you, and they’re accelerating through their learning process super quickly.

1:13:13 They’ve taken everything that you’ve done, and they’re trying to refine it. They’re trying to hack it. And they will be successful, as we’ve seen. So it’s just difficult. I mean, how do you do that?

1:13:25 How do you ever stay on top? And she’s had an accelerated career. And it’s been hard to balance it all. Has she always surrounded herself with the right people, with the right coaches? A lot of fans ask those questions.

1:13:38 We don’t know. We don’t know what it’s like. We don’t know how. We don’t know what she’s like to manage. Her coaches might need to be a certain way with her, especially as people respond to a certain method of coaching as well.

1:13:52 And Rhonda might have recognized that, so it might not have worked out any better. But we’re second-guessing a lot of things here. She was at the top of the game, but it’s maybe someone else’s turn right now. And there it is. Has she dealt with it the best way?

1:14:09 She’s dealt with it her way. And who are we to criticize her for that? She feels the way that she does, so she acts a certain way. And we have to respect that. It’s as plain and simple as that.

1:14:21 So I wish her all the best in whatever she wants to do. I would love to see her go away, improve. In all areas, her weaknesses come back and show us what she’s evolved into. But I don’t know whether that will happen. Yeah.

1:14:39 It reminds me that the whole game is ultimately a mental game. Massive part. Once she’s had the loss, whether it’s the confidence that she lost in her head or it’s now the lack of confidence other fighters have in her that she is a domineering champion. But once you see that switch, I don’t think you can get the toothpaste back in the tube. And we’ve seen it happen when Chuck Liddell got knocked out by a rampage.

1:15:05 It was kind of all over. And you see it’s almost like Anderson Silva. The myth is broken and then all of a sudden no longer are they indestructible in people’s minds. Yeah. Whether it’s in her mind she’s no longer destructible and then the opponent’s and all of a sudden everything changes.

1:15:21 One thing I’d like to say, and this is a very important point, and this hasn’t come to mind for a long time. Professional sports like football over here. You have YTS, youth training schemes, where if you show promise you are brought in probably around 11 years of age and you are then nurtured. And part of that nurturing is the media side of the game. If you get good, you are going to experience certain things.

1:15:48 You have a lot of people start gathering around you as you get better and better and better. That’s more layers before people get to the epicenter, to the athletes. So there’s a level of protection. Mixed martial arts has exploded onto the scene. We have very rudimental controls all the way through.

1:16:05 We’re getting there now but we have never had that cushioning. We haven’t had people that can show us the way. The athletes haven’t had that protection. And you’ve had Ronda Rousey, Conor McGregor and some of these other athletes suddenly just blast onto the scene. Millions and millions of followers, people then directing all of this love, all of this hate.

1:16:28 And you’ve had no preparation or training for that. I mean, we spoke at the very beginning of the interview about I’ve got 250 notifications coming out off the back of a show I did on BT Sport over here somewhere where the sport isn’t mainstream. And it terrified me. I was physically shaking. I thought my career as a broadcaster was done.

1:16:50 She’s got, Ronda Rousey’s got millions of followers. How do you deal with that? None of us know what that’s like. There are very few people in the world that know how to do that and then know how to manage it correctly. So to pass judgement is, you know, we would be wrong to do so.

1:17:07 But it’s, a fallen star sometimes is very sad to see but everything evolves right and moves on. And hopefully they learn from it and grow and go and do something and change the world again. She’s changed the world and we can’t forget that. Oh yeah, I never will. I never will.

1:17:23 It’s just when I see that event happen it seems that it’s just that confidence thing in the fighter’s mind and the opponent’s mind and then now everything, the game has changed and it’s hard to unchange that. And you know, Conor as well, we know he’s super confident. We know he has that aura that, you know, I am not, you know, I am going to win. What does he say? Is it losers follow winners, winners follow their dreams, you know?

1:17:44 So he’s always like, you’re analyzing me. I’m looking to the future. And then again, what did Conor do after that loss? You know, he went back and did the work. It’s, you know, straight blast and came back.

1:17:53 I mean, there’s not, there’s not two more different scenarios than what happened with him and Rhonda. He has a quiet mind. On fight day, he’s like very few other athletes anywhere. He has a quiet mind. And that quiet mind allows him to react in a way that not many other people do.

1:18:12 And when he brings that kind of heat and that kind of support and all of those bright lights we were talking about before, the person standing opposite him in the octagon doesn’t have as quiet a mind. So it’s scrambled. And if that gets scrambled in the first 14 seconds, we saw what happened. I’ll do. That’s what I was thinking about.

1:18:31 Just to finish on Conor, is he going to fight Mayweather? I think it’s a strong possibility because they both want to do it. There’s a lot, a lot of money on the table. A lot of money on the table. I mean, Conor could fight this fight and go away and he will be good forever.

1:18:51 So will his children and their children. One hundred years of life. He’ll be good, you know? I mean, he’ll find a way to feed whatever it is in himself another way. He’s doing films and all this other stuff.

1:19:04 The fight game is a tough game. He’s seen firsthand how tough the fight game can be as well. So I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes a huge payday like that and then see, you know, let’s see what happens. But all the right people are there to make it happen. Mayweather can make this happen.

1:19:21 Conor can make this happen. They can make it happen. We’re seeing the initial negotiations through TMZ and Mayweather doing this. But they’re talking about it could hit. And, you know, three million pay-per-view vibes.

1:19:31 They’re talking about, I mean, this is a big money fight and it’s like hard to argue against the money. That’s probably why it’ll happen because of the money. Then they’re talking about rules. I think Rogan the other day was talking about let’s use MMA gloves in the boxing ring. Now that starts to sound very interesting with what’s happening.

1:19:47 So I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I hope it happens. I wouldn’t like to see that. I used to campaign against that for promotions that would do it over here. They would fight in a cage with four ounce gloves, but that’s not MMA and that’s not K1 or boxing. And if anything happened, bad happened, God forbid, then it’s MMA because it’s in a fenced environment that just gets the negative press.

1:20:17 So I wouldn’t like to see that. Not even for Mayweather and him. So that should just be a straight boxing match. Or an MMA fight. We know that’s not going to happen.

1:20:26 I know, but I have to be true to those thoughts where it’s not good for the sport for it to be that way. For three million pay-per-view vibes, I will disagree with you. Tell me more about John Gooden. When you’re spare time, when you’re not having an injury so you can’t change your jitsu, you’re doing Iron Men, which is the real deal with the full marathon in there and all that stuff. You and our good friend Timothy Sheef are not eating meat, so you guys are on that vibe.

1:20:56 Tell me more about you. So I’m super competitive. I’ve been a competitive sportsman since I was about, probably seven, from a martial arts, judo, national competitions in judo. A little bit of karate. I played senior county football.

1:21:15 What else have I done? I played county squash as well. All of this, all the way through, I was doing the amateur ABA’s, sorry, the novice ABA’s in boxing. I’ve never not gone a year without competing regularly. I’ve always trained at least three times a week for something.

1:21:33 So when I got injured, it broke me. I had serious problems with that. I was in a job that I hated as an electrician. I knew that that wasn’t where my future was. It was my dad’s business as well, which made it very, very difficult.

1:21:49 But without his support, I would never have been able to do what I do now. So I went through a lot of trials and tribulations, and I couldn’t dress myself for at least three months. My wife has seen angles of me that no woman really should be seeing of her husband. So really bad back injury. It was, yeah.

1:22:09 Did you get it rolling jiu-jitsu or training? Yeah, so I’ve been injury prone for a while, I think, just because I’ve always been good at sports but never so good that someone would look after me. And I’m not good at looking after myself because I always want to be out there. So I went from wrist injuries, having procedures on my wrist, to then coming back, competing a little bit, going back, I’ve got a blood clot on the back of my leg from Muay Thai. Then I recovered from that, came back to what I thought was a technical session in jiu-jitsu.

1:22:38 It wasn’t, it was open mat. Didn’t warm up enough. I did a maneuver, which you will be familiar with, where I rolled to pull guard as someone was trying to take my back. Something happened with my hips and my leg was doing a dance on the canvas or on the mat. And yeah, that wasn’t good.

1:22:54 I was sort of paralyzed for about 30 minutes. Walked out the gym, and then I went through some chiropractic treatment and a few months after, I think, a rushed session set me back a long way and I had sciatica and things like that. So yeah, really bad for me and all I could really control was what I ate. And that kind of brought around me investigating more into nutrition. I’d always been interested in it, even from going from boxing where before a fight, I’d have like this big pasta meat dish.

1:23:26 And no one spoke to you about nutrition, even at sort of amateur level stuff. It just wasn’t done. And we had a few pros in that gym as well. So then going to a mixed martial arts gym where there was people barely touching on professional rules stuff, and they’re weighing their food. These guys are so scientific about it.

1:23:42 And there’s boxing, which has old school been around for years, but these guys are using science. It blew my mind. So I’d been interested in that through my peers in mixed martial arts. So I hadn’t consumed dairy for a long time. I’d heard about all the negative aspects of it to your body.

1:23:58 And yeah, I started looking at the eastern side of the way that they would recover and it was more alkaline, this, that, and the other. And then the compassionate side came in front of me. And after I saw what I saw, I was like, how can I now go downstairs and throw some chicken breasts in the oven and cook up some ribs? Can’t do it. So I went downstairs and cleared everything out.

1:24:22 Cleared everything out. My poor wife, she didn’t know what had happened. Threw it all in the bin. So this is how it’s going to be. And yeah.

1:24:29 That was how long ago? Over three years now. Okay. Yeah. So that was that side of things.

1:24:35 And I’ve kept that going. It’s been a journey of discovery. I lost a lot of weight. It sort of coincided with me getting signed to the UFC as well. So I was super nervous.

1:24:47 A lot of anxiety around stuff. I was then traveling very early on and I didn’t know what I couldn’t, couldn’t have. I remember when Dan and I went out to actually a Ronda Rousey fight. It was UFC 170 and we were doing a trial run. And we had lunch planned.

1:25:05 And all that they could get me was a box of lettuce leaves. I mean, that’s just not a meal. Yeah, that’s right. So I’d gone all day. I’d had a coffee in the morning as well and had a box of lettuce leaves.

1:25:15 And I’m sitting in this, what they call a format meeting where, I mean, Mike Goldberg was there, all of these senior production people. And I’m sitting there. I’m really flagging. I’d gone down from like 80 kilos down to 73 kilos. Not in that day.

1:25:29 Not in that day. I’ve always been lean. I’ve never been a big dude. So yeah, I took a long while before I really learned how to work in, be an athlete as well as a plant-based and as a vegan. But I’ve certainly found it very rewarding.

1:25:47 I feel my body is a lot less stressed. I’m not going to sit here with a smug face and say, I feel better about myself as a human being. But there is certainly an element to, I feel like my footprint is lighter on this world, despite the amount of travel I do. I’m thinking I’m offsetting a lot of this stuff. And then that kind of, so going back to the injury and the competitiveness, I needed to get that out.

1:26:14 I could no longer go back to a mixed martial arts contest. The UFC wouldn’t let their announcer fight professionally. It would probably damage my credibility if I was to lose, let alone the amount of effort you would need to put into a training camp and the marks that you would get, the injuries you would sustain. So as any good coming up to middle-aged guy, you start looking around at endurance sports, right? Yeah.

1:26:40 Triathlon. People who have a little bit of money, not that I have a great deal of money, it just seems to be the choice. I’m sure you’ve got a lot of friends from the city who have bought time trial bikes for five, ten thousand pounds that they take out once every six months, or indeed have gotten the bug and are training for a triathlon. So it was then my way to reconnect with some old friends who were doing it, who I’d missed. This journey in mixed martial arts has taken me away from my friends a lot of the time, so I’m just not around, so they don’t actually ring my phone anymore because they just assume I’m not going to be there.

1:27:17 Which is kind of sad, but one has to make sacrifices to pursue one’s dream, and that has been one of them, not connecting with friends and family. So it was a way to, okay, I can’t train at the moment, I don’t even want to go down the gym because it’s hard to do so. So let’s go and get competitive, let’s go and do this, and I embarked on this journey to Iron Man, and I did it in six months, which is too soon, especially if you’re not used to endurance and running, and it takes longer than that unless you’re very, very dedicated to maybe running every single day, which I wasn’t, because I was still having to work and whatnot.

1:27:57 But I did it, I’m proud I did it, I’m not proud of the time, but I did a season of triathlon, I was before, excluding the Iron Man, I was in the top 10% of my age group of where I finished, so that was good, and it was very good for me to see how another sport operated. I worked with a coach, I discovered new science, new techniques, and I’m excited about introducing those people together in the future as well. I’m going to try and do an event where I bring in some experts from other sports, introduce them to people in mixed martial arts, and let’s just do some knowledge sharing.

1:28:34 Brainstorming. Yeah, definitely. We know the Diaz brothers have always been involved in endurance stuff, they’re probably the highest profile. Definitely. MMA athletes that do that.

1:28:44 Yeah, for sure. I mean, they don’t always go hand in hand, there’s little things like when you’re wrestling all the time, this position here, your psoas muscle gets very short, and when you’re running, you have to be very upright, your posture has to be different. I learned so much about the human body, again, on the back of what I’d already learned through mixed martial arts, that I really enjoyed that journey, and I will continue to do it. I’m not doing Ironman this year, but I’m certainly going to be doing a lot more running, a lot more swimming as well.

1:29:13 I’m looking forward to doing that and continuing my jujitsu as well. Yeah, it’s nice to see you doing these other kinds of movements. And so, you know, I mentioned Aedito Portal in here a couple of years ago, and the first interview, I told him, I’m like, yeah, I’m not really happy with my movement practice. You know, I’ve been doing Thai boxing and jujitsu for a long time, and, you know, and I’ve been lifting heavy for a long time, and it wasn’t challenging me, and so he was like, you know, try something else.

1:29:37 And then I went to one of his movement experiences and started doing the lizard walks and the muscle-ups, and then I started breakdancing, of all things. It was just like it just happened. I was on the floor, actually, in a lizard walk pose, and I was like, this feels like what I used to watch when I was a kid, you know, from my name. I can see you with the lino out, you know, and like the beatbox, you know? Oh, yeah, right?

1:29:59 It almost dates me. There it is. I mean, I remember being fascinated by these kids that did it, but I never did it. I was like the nerdy kid in school that did the science fair. That was me.

1:30:06 I did. You did that? I’ve been caught in a few street corners, went missing from my parents’ home. Really? Breakdancing, right?

1:30:12 Yeah, and I was breakdancing on the corner with a bunch of strangers. There you go. There you can come by. And Timothy Sheave was a breakdancer, as well, before he trained Parkour. Okay, I didn’t know that.

1:30:20 Yeah, all sorts of parallels. And so I started doing that, and funny enough, I started just going bodyweight, and I wasn’t fighting as much. And it’s funny, you know, because as a fighter, you’re like always hitting the bag hard. You’re sparring hard. You’re always tough and serious.

1:30:33 As a breakdancer, you have to express yourself. You have to move to music. You got to be creative, and it’s very different. But I found that I was just not craving or even liking these big, heavy meat meals anymore. So I just found myself going more towards the vegetables, or plant allies, as we say on the show.

1:30:48 Right. And so I’ve changed my diet up quite a bit, actually. And Timothy Sheave, he’s always bringing fruit when he comes over here. He’s always like, Timothy doesn’t push it. He pushes it more than you.

1:30:57 But Timothy’s like, here’s some fruit, Ryan. Let’s have some fruit. But I must say, and I’ll say this to Timothy, is that now one day a week, I’m meatless, and I’m trying to go more, and I’m just fast. I’m much more drawn to a lot of vegetable nutrients these days. I think it’s because my body’s saying, we’d rather have that, Ryan, than this other stuff.

1:31:15 Yeah. And so funny enough, we’ve actually, I’m taking 60 students right now from around the world that are in our London Real Academy through a life accelerator course. And we’re doing all sorts of different things. So we get mindful the first week. We work on our mindset.

1:31:27 And this is our diet week. And I have this quadrant I give them, and I ask them to do one of four things every day of the week. And one is no sugar in their diet, no gluten in their diet. One is intermittent fast till noon, or an all-day fast. Okay.

1:31:40 And one is a vegetarian day, and if for the hardcore, do a vegan day. And so I’m introducing it into all of their diets. And it’s kind of fascinating to see how open they are to it. And I didn’t preach to them. I said, look, you’ve seen cow spirits.

1:31:52 You’ve seen forks over knives. We can talk about this a bunch of different ways. But I’ll just say, I think all of us deep down inside know there’s a lot of reasons not to consume meat. A lot. For our own personal standpoint, for carbon footprints, for water, for emissions, for whatever, for animal cruelty.

1:32:08 Like, let’s be honest, we all kind of get the message. So let’s try introducing it and just see what changes. So, you know, I’m not on the team yet, but I’m getting closer to having one of those little V’s on my Twitter feed, like you and Timothy. Yeah, I mean, the vegan journey is very rewarding. I’ve connected with a lot of cool people.

1:32:29 And I think I have a very interesting job and lifestyle, separate from the veganism. And then I’ll speak to someone at a dinner party, let’s say. I don’t go to dinner parties. What am I talking about? I’ll speak to someone like at a barbecue or a gathering.

1:32:42 And I’ll say, you know, mixed martial arts, cage fighting, mixed martial arts, Alex Reed. Not so much. Maybe Conor McGregor, you know, Michael Bisping, that kind of thing. Right, do you know Alex? Yeah, I’ve interviewed him once or twice.

1:32:54 He’s a sweetheart. He really is. He’s a sweetheart. Yeah, he’s a sweetheart. Sounds weird saying that about a fighter, by the way.

1:33:01 He is a sweetheart. He’s a good dude. He’s harmless. So anyway, you talk about that for a few minutes and then they see you picking at the crudités and always in the hummus and now I’ll pass on that. And then the vegan thing comes up.

1:33:15 And you’re talking to people for a lot, lot longer. So yeah, people are definitely more open to it. People don’t necessarily understand it. They don’t know how to. So I’ve actually just nearly finished recording like a little series where I’m trying to get my go-to meals to make it easier, look, it’s simple to be a vegan.

1:33:36 I’ve done it. I can show you how to do it. And it’s actually very, it gives you more time in the kitchen. I spend more time in the kitchen with my wife. We take a lot more raw materials.

1:33:48 I know how to use spices. I know how to use herbs. Some people might be, oh, I can’t be bothered with that. Well, you should be bothered with it, you know, because that’s what you’re fueling your body with. Water and food, that’s it.

1:34:03 What else have we got, really? So you’ve got to consider all of those things very, very carefully. And the more you can stop consuming meats at the rate that it’s going is only going to benefit the planet because we just can’t continue down this path. The amount of waste and what they’re doing, if you remove yourself from the planet and say, okay, so what gives these guys down here oxygen? Oh, like the Amazon forest?

1:34:27 Yeah, what really destroys the planet? Well, bad gases like carbon dioxide and methane. What we do, we’ll start cutting down the forests and we’ll put methane producing animals in their place. How does that sound? It’s just nuts.

1:34:42 It doesn’t make sense. So it depends who you’re talking to, to which argument you present, whether it be the don’t want to see animals getting slaughtered, to heart disease potentially, to your kid in the planet. There’s many different arguments, but there are just so many that I think you have to, we don’t have to. We have to be wise for everyone to leave our children and their children a better place by just reducing consumption of everything, really. I’m trying to go a little bit more minimalist with stuff, but we’re consuming that crazy and we just need to put the brakes on a bit.

1:35:18 Yeah, I’m into that. And the other thing that I’ve been talking about lately is just mindful eating. So you sit down and just think about where all these things came from. Who had to grow them? Who had to drive them there and just be appreciative and then enjoy the food in the moment?

1:35:30 Scarf down my food before you came over here. But I’m trying to just try to be in the moment and try to appreciate it. And if I do choose to eat some meat that day, think about it. Where did it come from? Who sacrificed their lives?

1:35:42 So yeah, again, be a little bit mindful about everything you consume. Yeah. I agree. And these big corporates, they lie. We don’t really know where this comes from.

1:35:51 They use marketing. There’s some genius marketeers out there. So we don’t know what’s going on. Even organic isn’t what you think it would be. Like organic eggs, for example.

1:36:03 I was considering eggs a couple of years ago again. And then you see that it’s not like, it’s not a chicken running around outside. It’s really not. There’s so many different levels to this stuff. It’s crazy.

1:36:16 And now I’m on to water. Tim did a speech at a veg fest about water. Don’t consume this. Don’t consume that. And now I’m on a distilled water thing.

1:36:26 I’ve been on that for a good few months now. I love it. If I fill the bath full of water now, the smell of chemicals to me, it’s really strong. Wow. I really sense it.

1:36:39 Okay. So that’s the alkaline water? Is your distilled water? Not necessarily. It’s not necessarily alkaline water.

1:36:45 I don’t think it’s as neutral as it can be. But it takes away all of the metals and the nonsense that’s in there, the hormones, this, that and the other. And Timothy Sheef gave a talk about that. He did, yeah. So he opened my eyes.

1:37:00 I was always… I’d never really drank out of the tap. I’d always have filtered stuff. But then I would have like hyaline spring. But then Tim did a thing where he compared a lot of the waters together and it showed that this was better than that or more alkaline than this.

1:37:14 And then it’s the particles as well that are in there. And he was struggling with injury and not recovering. And he believes that taking on distilled water wasn’t filling his joints with some of this bad stuff and maybe slowing his internal processes down from the healing process. And now distilled water is the way. And when you look at some of the great minds that have gone before, I’m not great at recalling who they are.

1:37:39 But a lot of people from many, many moons ago have said, why would you do anything but drink distilled water? So what am I to argue with that? Yeah, all the UFC fighters used to cut weight with distilled water. You’ve got to be careful with that. Yeah, because of the sodium stuff, you still have to be putting minerals back in your body.

1:37:57 I’m getting that through the food that I consume. So if you take that out and only have distilled water, it’s a medicine for disaster. So don’t fast on it, for God’s sake. But just don’t drink the tap water because it’s hideous and horrible. Amen to that.

1:38:13 Wow, all right. I’m going to reevaluate around here. We might be on that. Thank you to you and Mr. Sheef.

1:38:18 John, I just want to ask you a couple of questions about maybe some of your personal habits for just being successful. And is there something that you changed in your game over the years, whether it was a certain morning habit or an exercise routine or maybe just a mental practice that you noticed it took your game to the next level? These success secrets are only available on the London Real Academy. Become a member and get access to live shows, exclusive courses, my webinars, bonus content, meet-ups, live events, an amazing community, and much, much more.

1:38:56 Now back to the rest of the show. John, I always ask everyone a question here at the end. I’m going to ask you. You might know this is coming. I don’t know.

1:39:05 But if you could make a phone call to the 20-year-old, John Gooden, from what you know now and give that young man a bit of advice, what would you tell him? Don’t worry about it. Worried way too much about it. Way too much about everything. Always thinking so many steps ahead.

1:39:23 Don’t worry about it. Because I’m so happy and content with where I’m at. So I can’t really, apart from not scoring the levels that I should have done in my A levels and going to the university that I should have done and perhaps not being a nicer person to my very first love, apart from that, everything else. So I think I’ve been a generally nice human being. And I’ve got to where I wanted to be.

1:39:51 This is what I wanted. So I can’t really change much. But from going from A to let’s say we’re at like maybe G right now, those bits in the middle, I’ve spent a lot of energy just worrying about stuff and moaning about it. God, my friends have stayed with me through the moaning. And the trials and tribulations of being an electrician and being injured and all that stuff, don’t worry about it.

1:40:19 You know, just live in that moment. I’ve lost so much time by not being in that moment and enjoying it, enjoying relationships, and exploring stuff. So don’t worry about it. It is what it is, right? So I would probably say that.

1:40:35 And I would definitely not have listened. Because I’m sure that I was told that many times before. Yeah. Second part of that, what’s the best advice you’ve ever received? Could be a broadcasting tip from Goldberg.

1:40:46 It could be something your dad said to you, something you learned on the mats one day, something you learned, you know, I don’t know, doing an Iron Man. But what was best advice you’ve ever received? Nothing beats hard work. Your dad told you that? Yeah, nothing beats hard work.

1:41:02 Gooden, honest, hard work. You can’t get around it. There are no shortcuts. Tim Ferriss is the guy who hacks everything. But he works really, really hard at those hacks.

1:41:15 There’s no substitute for it. So just find something that you enjoy working hard at. There it is. No substitute for hard work. Gooden one.

1:41:25 Last one. To the 20-year-old that’s out there watching us, listening to us on iTunes, whatever it is, that, you know, wants to one day be like John. You know, to be… God forbid. Yeah, I know.

1:41:37 But, you know, to be a UFC commentator, I mean, man, you know, to have that kind of access. And I know what you mean. Like, when you’re at one of those shows, you know, even you in an anxiety moment have to be like, God damn, I’m in the center of it right now. Not a lot of cooler places to be in the whole world at that moment. And even most people their whole lives probably wouldn’t experience something like that.

1:41:57 So it’s something people aspire to. Now, of course, the old adage says, if they knew what they had to do to get there, they wouldn’t want to do it. Which probably goes for your job and Dan Hardy’s job as a fighter. Because if people really knew what it took to get into that cage or get into that O2 arena and fight Carlos Condit, you know, and I remember watching that, they might not want to do it. But still, advice to them if they do want to become a UFC broadcaster.

1:42:22 What would you tell them? I’d first ask why. You’ve really got to define your why. Why do you want to do that? Why do you want to be the broadcaster?

1:42:36 And you’ve got to get down a few levels just to find out why. I didn’t do this to be a UFC broadcaster. I got into this to better represent the sport of mixed martial arts. Everything else came because I was out there doing honest work. I got involved in medical initiatives.

1:42:59 I found my way into relationships, which could help in many different facets. And then it was just timing. It’s just timing. So why do you want to do it is first of all. And then if it’s of a similar reason, then don’t do it like me because I’ve already done it that way.

1:43:19 Try and be different. You have to get a different spin. You know, be yourself and find an angle. What is missing from that broadcast right now? And go fill the gap.

1:43:33 But it’s a well-oiled machine and nothing’s missing. And we’re doing everything perfectly. So stay back. No, no. I mean, what an honor if you could ever mentor someone to then be your successor.

1:43:44 That would be something. And again, I’d just like to say to Mike Goldberg, you know, if this ever filters through to him, he gave me a couple of bits of advice once, which just completely changed my game. The way that I put my notes together. I used to have it on a split page and everything was packed in really tight and he showed me a different way. Changed my game.

1:44:04 So I’m very grateful to him for that. And hopefully I can carry the baton as he’s moved on and I’m hoping that he’s done so willingly or that he’s good with it. But yes, it’s a great honor if you could give some of the advice to do that. But yeah, establish a why and then find something different and don’t take John’s job just yet. He’s got some work to do yet.

1:44:28 A few years. Yeah, exactly. I had a guest in that chair a few months ago. His name is Simon Sinek and he has a very famous TED Talk, I think one of the most watched of all time. And it’s called Start With Why.

1:44:37 And his thesis was that we buy into companies, movements, people, not because of what they do or how they do but why they do it. So the iPhone or this iPad, yeah, there’s a lot of devices that do the same thing but why do these people do it? These passionate people in California that want to think different, they want to do something, they want to create something that’s so wonderful that it adds value to people’s lives and that’s why we buy into it. So I’m a big fan of this concept of Start With Why.

1:45:04 And before you do anything in your life, even when you wake up in the morning before you do something, I think you should always be like, why am I doing this? Why are we talking about this? Why, why, why? So I think it’s super important that you brought that up because the wrong reasons will end your career real quick. And when UFC was blowing up, we saw guys getting into the sport because it was the cool thing to do and that’s not going to give you longevity in any of this stuff.

1:45:30 I think it was someone that was at the seven levels of why. I don’t know if it’s that guy but why did you do that? Oh yeah, it’s like ask yourself why like five times until you get down as a seven. Yeah. Down until the real ground.

1:45:42 And you really get to the crops of it. Yeah, exactly. Why so I can make more money? Why so I can be successful? Why so I can…

1:45:47 And then you go why why and then you’re like, so I can love myself. Like you get really deep and so it’s important. And I think I’ve chosen a career which I feel quite confident about nowadays. Now I feel a little bit sorry for the new generation because tablets, social media and all this stuff which is a massive distraction. Let’s shelve that for a second but I think it’s ruining communication a little bit.

1:46:10 As a commentator we have to use words. We are essentially wordsmiths. We have to be able to express things in an interesting way in many different ways, change things up. And through these digital mediums we’re not really exercising that. Conversations like we’re having now don’t always, they’re not happening as frequently.

1:46:33 People are talking via a device. This is something in between. So actually I think a skill like commentary is something that’s going to be falling down a little bit and it’s going to be harder to get because people are finding different ways to communicate but I think you always need that. So yeah, you just kind of reminded me to yeah, keep practicing that direct interaction where you are exploring and using language and love language. Explore it, use it, find different interesting ways about applying it as well because if you keep typing with emojis then guys like me who are a bit old school who are still learning what the Facee book and Insta wassa names does, we’re just going to carry on doing this core competency and we’ll still have a job.

1:47:22 Yeah, language is your business and so yeah, we’re big fans of in-person interactions. I think we don’t get enough of that these days. Yeah, we’re losing it a bit. Yeah, we’re losing it a bit and as humans, we need this energy and this look into their eyes and feel the vibe. So I’m a big fan of that stuff coming up.

1:47:39 Yeah. And then the whys are always super important. But John, it’s been an honor to have you here. No, it’s been mine. I’ve been around a few commentators in my time.

1:47:47 I spent some time with Joe Rogan. I did not inhale with Joe but I had an amazing show with him and for him to invite me on the show was a huge honor. Of course, I know Dan. I met Bas Rutan. I know I had John Anakin here on the show about three and a half years ago.

1:48:00 Wow. So I’ve seen a lot of the greats and I think you’re going to be one of them. Oh, that’s pretty fun of you to say. And I think the fact that you’re constantly trying to hone your craft is super important. Yeah.

1:48:10 And I think everyone at the top of their game is always trying to get better and they’re all hard on themselves but that’s going to be the key. And again, five years ago, who would have thought an Irishman would have been popular in America? So who’s to say that an Englishman couldn’t be a commentator in America? Well, it’s surreal to be amongst those names. It still is.

1:48:28 I still pinch myself but all I can say is I’m going to do the best I can and try and enjoy the journey. Yeah, and I’m glad that I stuck with you on your journey since that night at BT Sport. I don’t remember that being horrible. I just remembered I got introduced to the guy in a dinner jacket who spoke in a way that I was like, what’s he doing in my sport? But you know, you’ve really proven yourself and you know the business and to sit there and analyze fights with Dan Hardy, I don’t know of a lot of people in the UFC on the front people could do that same thing.

1:48:56 So you obviously have proven yourself and I think that’s super important. I want to be listening to someone who knows what they’re talking about all the time. I also want to be listening to someone who trains jujitsu and trains boxing all the time. I think that’s a requirement when it comes to an announcer. So it makes me happy you’re doing that stuff.

1:49:11 Yeah. So there you go. To be continued, as we say on London Real, it’s about the journey. Keep doing yours. Hopefully we’ll check back with you in the next year or two and find out how you’re doing and how the UFC is doing.

1:49:22 And until then, all the best, John. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.