Evanna Lynch - Luna Lovegood Goes Vegan

Full transcript: Evanna Lynch on London Real

5:28 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Ivana Lynch, the Irish actress, vegan activist and podcaster who rose to prominence for your portrayal of Luna Lovegood in the massively successful Harry Potter film series. You’ve since starred in independent films like Simon and Marisa’s My Name is Emily and will perform Enda Walsh’s iconic play Disco Pigs in New York. You recently became vegan and have launched your own podcast Chick Peeps to encourage your fan base to embrace the movement. Ivana, welcome to London Real.

5:56 Thank you. I’m really happy to be here. Awesome to have a fellow broadcaster here. Yeah, newly. I only just like, I kind of didn’t believe I was a podcaster for like a few weeks because I was expecting to fall apart and I recently was like, okay, I’m a podcaster now.

6:10 You are. All I got to say is stick with it because it’s an incredible adventure. I promised myself six years ago I would do an episode a week and now we’re 400 some into it and it’s literally changed my life. As I told you before, we now teach students how to do it and more than anything, it actually transforms your life because I think it forces you to live life to the fullest, to get all this information in and to explore ideas. Yeah, to reach out to people and be really curious. I’ve always had that naturally, which is I think why I wanted to start it because I was meeting all these people because I was like, had a platform in the vegan community and I was like, I want to ask you questions.

6:51 That’s how it happened. It is scary doing a project where it’s like, there’s no end to this. This is an ongoing project. It’s not like doing a book or a film or anything. You’re like, oh, you’re right. We have to become your lifestyle.

7:04 Yeah. There’s a little bit of tension there or scariness, but there’s also a beauty in that maybe you don’t know where it’s going. You don’t know where it’ll lead you. The people that have sat in that chair literally changed my life. I made movies about them now and they become good friends of mine and they’ve changed the course of my life.

7:23 It’s wild. I encourage you to keep going and I’m sure you will. I want to talk about that more later. I don’t know where to start with you, so I figure we would start from the beginning. Tell us where you’re from and what was it like growing up there?

7:37 Yeah. I’m from a place called Turun Fakken in County Louth. Real place name. It’s like a small village. I grew up with my parents and two sisters and brother in the countryside. Lots of animals, lots of cats. I’ve had a continuously expanding family of cats over the years.

7:57 That’s Ireland, just to be clear. Is that West Coast, East Coast? East Coast, like in our north of Dublin. What is that like? What is it like to grow up in Ireland? In America, everyone’s Irish on St. Patrick’s Day. I don’t know if anyone knows.

8:15 Yeah, they all call it St. Patty’s Day. That’s a real pet peeve. Oh, is it really? They call it St. Patty’s Day. It’s Patty, as in Patricia.

8:22 Oh, P-A-T-T. Anyway, that’s a little thing. To be honest, when I grew up there, I actually didn’t like living there as a child. I thought it was really boring. I thought all the fun stuff happened in England and America. Especially because I wanted to be an actor, but I just saw no way to do that.

8:41 I just couldn’t see. I also felt it was like all the interesting Irish people go away. They all peeve. I don’t know. Now, it’s that cliche thing of having left home. I’m like, oh, it gave me such integrity and it made me value the really important stuff. The stuff that you like can’t kind of create and build on your own. Yeah, I don’t know. Just authenticity and kindness.

9:10 Irish people don’t take themselves too seriously. Fun and crack is important to them. What is the crack if you had to explain that? Because I never heard that term until I came to England. It’s fun. It’s just a laugh. It’s like good vibes. Yeah, good vibes.

9:28 Okay. Were you in a small town? What were your parents like? What kind of background professionally were they in? That kind of thing.

9:35 Yes, it was. I couldn’t even really call it town. There wasn’t a bus service. If you want to get into town, mom, can you put me into town? That kind of way. My parents were both teachers.

9:46 My dad taught at the school I went to, the secondary school, and my mom is still a teacher. Yeah, they were just really into books. My mom and dad gave me great love of books. They always read to us and always encouraged us to do whatever we wanted to do, me and my siblings.

10:08 Back then, they really struggled to see arts as a career option. They’re very much like work is one thing and you do it every day for a certain number of hours. I think they found it hard to grasp that being an artist, sometimes you don’t have work. Some days, your work is just, I don’t know, hunched over a little project of your own for hours. That idea, and I think that passed on to me for a while. I was like, I had this sense that I should sort of be suffering for my work or I shouldn’t enjoy it.

10:43 I enjoyed acting so much and I enjoyed the work I was doing and I was like, I had a lot of guilt about that actually. You should kind of be in pain. I think that’s very Irish mentality. That work isn’t fun and you have to toil. Yeah, work should be labor.

10:59 It shouldn’t fill you up with joy the way acting and art did for me. Definitely had guilt for that and there was a sense of you’d have to be really lucky. Then I spent five years in America and I found they have a really different attitude that you can work for whatever you want. They have this work ethic that I feel is built on hope and optimism. Before that, I hadn’t worked as hard at my acting career because I was like, you just have to be lucky. You have to have people discover you and things like that.

11:36 And yeah, living in LA, it’s a city of dreamers and sometimes too many dreamers. But I think sometimes the Irish mentality is too practical and too realistic and you have to as an artist, you have to be slightly on the optimistic side about your abilities and your dreams. Were you always thinking inside, I got to get a proper job someday or I have to find some real work? Yeah, I still think I have that. Or just like this is all going to fall apart or this is a really nice phase. I’m lucky and beneath that, a real sense of unworthiness. I don’t deserve to get to enjoy my job this much. So yeah, I do, I work on that because I don’t agree with it. Like what your story, what you told me about working banking and then you just was like, I’m going to do what I want to do to follow my passion. I think that’s where the best work comes from.

12:33 Otherwise, life becomes really hard and I want to enjoy life and work. I don’t think work is something that is separate and that you don’t enjoy. And yet that is a lot of Irish mentality. It’s also… Slapping. And life is a struggle. And then there’s been a history of struggle.

12:50 I mean, it’s hard. I think this generation is really breaking free of that and showing you what you can do. But a lot of the time I see that Irish people have to go abroad and travel to find out to get away from that guilt, all that guilt and shame, which has a lot to do with religion, with that upbringing, growing up in a Catholic society of people saying, you shouldn’t ask for too much. You shouldn’t expect too much. And that fear-based mentality around God is like, you need to be thanking him and telling him that you don’t deserve this or else it will be taken away. I just don’t like all of that. I don’t believe that’s what God is at all.

13:30 Right. And there is that kind of guilt and shame all the time. You’re always doing something wrong in the eyes of God and you’re asking forgiveness. Yeah. And just don’t have too much pleasure. Just don’t have too much fun.

13:41 You don’t be too happy. Which is kind of… Is that anti-artistic in a way? I mean, do artists think differently, you think, than some of the others? Yeah. I think they want to feel all the feelings fully, pleasure, and pain. Sorry, I’m messing with my microphone.

14:00 Yeah. Just go… That’s where that stuff comes from. Falling deeply in love and then deeply out of it and just intensity. And I think I probably held myself back from that a lot because of that feeling of unworthiness. Right. Yeah. And yet, now that you’ve been away from it, when you go home, you do realize that there were some really nice core values that you had.

14:22 Yeah. Absolutely. So it was good and bad there. I love how grounded they are. And I love the family thing. This Irish idea, don’t get notions about yourself. Like, they laugh at you, you know? I was just panicking there that this Facebook chat was going to go to my private page because I was like, if my friends and family see that I’m putting an interview out there about myself, they will like, just… They’ll give me such a hard time about it. I probably still will get that now.

14:51 It’s just the idea of posting an interview about yourself on a page. And then I went to LA and it’s like, people literally pay for photo shoots of themselves. It’s not to do with their job. Or sometimes it’s not even about engagement or baby. It’s just like, I want to photo shoot of myself. And that’s just like very far into the Irish mentality. And even though you’ve been in billion dollar blockbuster movies, there’s still something about you posting that interview that they might be like, that’s weird. A friend of mine had this, he had a funny comparison.

15:22 He was like, in Ireland, they say, you think a lot of yourself, don’t you? And in America, they’re like, you think a lot of yourself. Like, that’s what they think that’s admirable. Or in Ireland, it’s like, that’s a bad thing. You shouldn’t be too full of yourself.

15:35 Yeah. No, I’ve heard this a lot. I mean, obviously I’m an American in London. And there’s some of that mentality in England too. Although I would say it’s probably more intense in Ireland. Yeah, definitely. But it’s definitely here too. And I always think it comes down to a little bit of like even a geographical thing. I mean, traditionally, there was only so much land in Ireland and in England. And in America, it was always like, if you want to make it, you can go out West and there’s tons of resources, land and whatever.

15:59 You had to have a dream. And the country was built on dreams, especially the West Coast. It was just like, go for it. And so I think that mentality is still carried over from the last hundred years. Whereas here, it was kind of like, well, there’s no new land. So all the land and money came from a family and you have to watch your upbringing, what’s your last name, and what’s your accent. And that’s kind of determines who you are. But anyways, more on my theories later when I start my book. And you said you felt some guilt and stuff about what happened to you. But I mean, when I look at, when I hear your story, you have this really unique thing that happened to you. But let’s talk about you first. The arts, when did you realize that was super important to you? Let me just check the microphone really quick. Yeah, it’s in the windows. Is that? Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Um, I don’t know if it was ever full realization. It was just like in me, I had this weird thing of like, expecting I was going to be an actress without knowing about like, never having a light bulb moment to like, I want to be an actor. You know, people talk about that where they go to shows and they realize they want to do that. Yeah, I think I just was like, I want to be at the center of the story. I even remember like, when I was younger, we used to go Catholic mass, every week, we still, my parents still do. That’s the original show, isn’t it? Okay, exactly.

17:20 There was children’s mass on every week. I know every second week on a Saturday. And I remember like, as a five or six year old being there and like, I want to be on that stage. It wasn’t an alter to me, it was a stage. And it wasn’t like, it was just the idea that they were at the center of the story. They were at the center of what was unfolding and what was exciting. And I just wanted to be part of that. So consider that my first acting gig. Interesting. And yet, your personality is probably more introverted than extroverted. Definitely. But still, you wanted to be there on the stage. Yeah. I don’t know. I can’t really understand that.

17:54 I’m still very introverted, but as a child, I was extremely shy and had this thing of, I don’t deserve to take up space, but then other characters would give me that permission. It was like their pain and their story was more valid and it gave me validity to speak. Give me permission. When were you first able to do that? Take on another character because in mass, you still, you’re not necessarily another character, even though you’re doing this kind of ceremony. But when were you able to first do that? Yeah. Well, I started acting classes when I was about eight and just, yeah, everything. We were just doing monologues and things like that. Every time I got a character who had a strong voice and who had opinions, I just, yeah, it was both a mask for myself and also shaking off myself, being free of that.

18:49 I guess it would have been then, those moments of standing up in front of people and not being afraid of them and feeling like, I belong here. I have a right to speak right now, which I would walk around never feeling that, you know, I would go into a new room with social, new social group of people and I would just feel like I want to be swallowed up. And yeah, that’s a really dark way to live. So anytime I got relief from that was so such a gift and that’s what acting gave.

19:23 When did you realize and other people realized that you had a talent for this? My teachers were always really encouraging. It was a place called the Little Duke Theatre. They still are running and my teacher, my teachers there were so kind to me and I got a few distinctions on exams, things like that. And then also another friend of mine, I had a disorder when I was like 11 years old. I was in clinic for about three and a half months and they would have people come in to teach us things, other hobbies as an idea of being like taking our mind off of what we were going through, this recovery thing and having hobbies, developing other sides of yourself. And they brought in a drama teacher and he specifically like towards the end of my stay at that clinic sat me down and was like, you’re really, you have a talent for this and you should pursue this. And he gave me like a child agency’s number and things like that. And that didn’t end up going anywhere, but that stuck with me the fact that he saw something. And I remember there was like one amazing time because in that clinic, this is oversharing, but there was a really not kind of not nice feeling of the staff were against the patients. Like they were quite mean actually.

20:39 Is it just a clinic for anorexia? All eating disorders. Okay. Right. Yeah. And they, they, we weren’t often treated as like people. We were treated as sick people, which is, that’s a whole other conversation. I don’t believe that’s how you deal with people with those illnesses. But I remember he, he was like, he understood this drama teacher, what was going on and how angry were and how frustrated. And he helped me turn this monologue into a kind of a middle finger to the nurses without them knowing it. And it was like a Shakespearean monologue. And it was so nice to like get up in front of them and say all these things without saying it. And they just clap politely, had no idea. But remember that being like really powerful and time when I was sick and felt like something that I depended on was being taken away from me, uh, for him to be like, here’s another thing that you can love and throw yourself into. And it can make you feel whole again. Yeah. So, but that was when I was like, uh, yeah, 11, 12. And then I didn’t, I would continue doing acting classes.

21:42 Then I got the role in Potter when I was 14. So when you look back on the anorexia nervosa, what is that by the way? And now that you look back on it, you’ve had, you know, 15 years to process it, what would you think was happening in Ivana to make that manifest itself? Yeah. It’s kind of what I described earlier with that feeling of I don’t deserve to take up space of absolute unworthiness. And, uh, and it’s, it’s fear. It’s completely succumbing to fear.

22:11 Everyone for your whole life, I’ve realized we’ll probably have this fear. I’m not good enough and I won’t be loved. And we do things that help us deal with that and that build us up and make us feel like help us develop our own self love. But I think at that age, I didn’t have any of that didn’t have any of those things in place. And, and then I found something, you know, being thin or being good at, uh, having strong willpower. They’re seen as like, um,

22:45 Like people covet those things. And I think I just started dieting and started getting attention for it. And then got it becomes, it’s an addiction. It is an addiction, comes in addiction. And it really numbs because it consumes your whole energy, all your, uh, yeah, all your energy, all your thoughts, all your heart and soul to the point where like you don’t have any other personality. You stop seeing your friends because all you can think about is exercise and calories and they don’t want to be around that. And you think it’s a waste of time. And I stopped developing all my passions. And the thing was like everything else felt like a risk, like it’s a risk to, to suppose that you could be loved for being a good actor.

23:24 It’s a risk to suppose that you could be loved for, uh, being clever or, uh, being pretty. Like, there’s always somebody who’s better at those things. Whereas I think an eating disorder, like anorexia felt very, very safe and very reliable. Like this is something that’s not ever going to let me down. This is something I’m good at because I’m addicted to it because I’m stuck in this cycle and that I will, uh, yeah, that it won’t let me down. And, um, but it’s, it’s completely giving into fear. I think the bravest thing is to be like, oh, maybe I’ll be loved for this. Well, maybe I’m going to be an actor and that’s my passion.

23:57 And there’s probably going to be thousands of other people who are better active than me. And, uh, it’s a risky thing to kind of stake yourself worth on, but it’s a lot more brave than saying, I’ll be loved for being this. And it’s not even love. You’re just, you get attention for it and that’s all you feel you deserve. Yeah. It’s complicated.

24:18 But at the time they put you in the hospital, I’m guessing the hospital staff couldn’t educate you mentally. What was going on? Did they give you some tools so you could at least not go back to that somehow? Um, I really don’t credit that clinic for helping me recover. They helped me recover physically, but, uh, it wasn’t a very, it wasn’t a nice place. Um, I more credit my family and my friends. I think that the worst thing you can do to someone with those eating disorders, as I mentioned, is to treat them like a sick person. Like that’s all they are because the hardest thing for me was recovering from recovery, essentially, because I suddenly was physically recovered and I’d lost all the attention and all the worry that people had around me for that. And then it was like, I’m nothing. I’ve poured myself for two years into this pursuit and it’s all gone and I have nothing. I haven’t been doing my school.

25:12 I don’t have good friendships. I haven’t any other passions that I really know about. Um, it just, you have to treat, you have the way to really help people through that. And it is hard because you’re, especially when they’re physically very, uh, underweight, like you’re worried about them. You can’t just show that that’s all they are. You can’t just, I remember for like people when I was going through, they, every time they would look at me, I would just be reminded of what I was going through, that I was sick. And, uh, yeah, you have to, you have to nourish the other sides of them. I really credit my family. When I got out of that clinic, there was this whole program for afterwards, how you have to weigh them all the time and track their calories. And my parents didn’t do any of that. They, um, really just treat me like normal. They helped me. They were very sensitive, but they, um, developed, they helped like love me for the other things.

26:04 Like I was starting to be like, I do like acting. Well, I like art. Oh, I like, uh, animals. And I was starting to pursue those things more. And the fact that they would see these things and be like, this is great. You’re good at this. And that gave me the courage to pursue those and stop depending on an eating disorder for self-worth. Right. I, um, I mentored a 10 year old boy here in London for like a year when I was in banking. And, um, they said that, you know, the boys that have kind of their, their behavioral difficulties, they’ll, they’ll kind of lash out and get into fights. But a lot of the girls go, go inward, you know, and damage themselves or eating disorder and that kind of thing. So I’m guessing that’s just kind of a feminine trait maybe because you have that control and then you can see that now I am in power of something.

26:51 That’s really interesting. Yeah. I always thought that was interesting, but I still don’t know exactly why. I guess, um, it’s also a feminine quality. So wait, what did you say the boys do?

26:59 The boys would more get aggressive, you know, and, uh, you know, destroy things and fight and those kinds of things and misbehave where a lot of times extroverted behavior, whether it was a lot of times the girls went introverted self-harm or eating disorders, bulimia. Yeah. But that’s also something that’s like forced on women. This idea that you have to be smaller, not just physically your energy and everything like this acquiescence that, uh, you shouldn’t stand out or take up too much space. That’s something that all women have to deal with. Like to be loud, to be, to be even, yeah, curvaceous is like a statement. And when you’re young and you haven’t figured out yourself and you don’t love yourself, you just, that’s too risky to make those kinds of statements.

27:42 So it’s probably why something to do with that. That’s really interesting. I hadn’t thought about that. Yeah, I still have more to think about it. So, all right. So you come out of that, you come back to the parents, parents are really supportive. You get back into acting more. It sounds like your parents obviously supported your acting to have, you know, the teachers and things like that. Yeah. Like they supported everything, uh, that like our loves, just developing yourself. But I think they, it’s just like in Ireland, you don’t go to stage school very rarely anyway. And, uh, it’s not, it’s just not a common trajectory. It’s not common for most people. Most people like every time I get an Uber and remind you of this, you say you’re an actor, they go, are you? And they look like an actor. Yeah. Not in LA.

28:24 No, she’s still in LA. Yeah. It’s like just seen as it’s still something different. Um, it’s very rare. Yeah, I suppose so. And then what happened to you is not fair enough though. Everyone going for the same jobs. Um, but no, no, they were, they like, they encouraged that. Uh, but I think they were, they, I didn’t really, I’d say I was still young. I secretly was like, I wouldn’t be an actor, but I didn’t really speak about it. Um, although I did speak about the fact that I was going to be in Harry Potter long before it was in the films. I just had this feeling that it was going to be in it. And I couldn’t, I didn’t know the route to it, but had made a few tapes and yeah, I mean, they were supportive. You know, like when, um, when I found out about the open edition for Potter, my, well, my mom was nervous because she thought I would like turn my head and she thought not getting the part, but going to the audition and that I would be too heartbroken.

29:17 So take things very personally, very sensitive, any kind of rejection at that age, especially. And this is when you’re 14 and the open edition was in London. Yeah. And your mom was worried that the experience of coming here and not getting the role might be hard. Yeah. Yes.

29:30 Yes. And whereas my dad was like, let’s take a chance. Let’s go, have fun. And strangely enough, you had written J.K. Rowling years before because you were a fan of the books.

29:40 Yes. Huge, huge fan of the books. I wrote to her when I was going through the eating disorder because I told her, uh, that it was the only thing that took my mind off of it. And that like anyone who’s gone through it will know that that’s a very powerful thing to take your mind off. Do whatever, what you’re going through. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it was the one thing where I just, I didn’t feel like everywhere I turned to people were my siblings were angry with me or my parents were worried about me. And this was something that just gave a lot of solace. So I wrote to her when I was going through that and said, thank you. And I sent it to her like her editor and her assistant obviously read it and was touched by the letter and she gave it to her and then J.K. wrote back, wrote a handwritten letter. It was very like, it was, got that while you’re in the hospital. I got that. No, I got that before. Yeah. Before I went to the hospital or anything. And, uh, yeah, I started a con respondents. We actually became pimples. I was going to go to about 11 and this is before the movie started way before the books were big at the time. Really big now was already present. Uh, I wrote to her about Luna specifically saying she really frees me because she’s such a eccentric.

30:50 She’s so weird and everyone acknowledges she’s weird. And it doesn’t, for one second, it doesn’t make her question herself. Like it was such a revelation that somebody, yes, she’s a fictional character, but somebody who seemed real, who she was so well written, could be so peculiar and so fine with it and not as a defiant thing, just as I am who I am. Really felt like, yeah, a revelation of a character as a teenager. Um, so I wrote to her about that and I said, I think I said, like I wanted to play her and Joe would write back and say that she doesn’t have any control over casting or anything. She offered me like a role as an extra. She was like, Hey, I could talk to somebody if you wanted to come on the set and play with the Hogwarts students. And I actually, this is like really bold. I don’t look back on my young self and I’m like, how did I have the nerd do that? I was like, Joe, thank you. But I’m actually going to be in the films. And if I play a random Hufflepuff student, I won’t get to play Luna. So no, not that sassy, but like, I was like, thank you.

31:51 But I think I need to hold out for the Luna audition. Right. Okay. And Joe is JK’s first name. Yes. Now the extraordinaryness of this story isn’t lost on you. Is it that you can be writing her?

32:02 No. And then later you come to the audition in London and then I’ll let you continue the story. But you know, your, your life could also be a movie. Yeah. No, no, no, that is, I love that. Like how crazy and how synchronistic it was. That’s where I really believe in the universe of like collaborating with the universe. Um, I’m sad that actually on a few roles since that I felt I was really meant to get that the universe kind of makes it happen. Um, but yeah, no, I, I understand how crazy it is. I also look back on my 14 year old self and I’m like, how did you have the nerve to do that when you were so like I was, I had so much crippling self-doubt and anxiety for any other thing. But this thing, I just had such belief that I was like meant to do this and that this character was bigger than me. I was like more, I was kind of in service to this character and it helped me kind of thinking of it that way helped me overcome my insecurities. Yeah. I think that’s what makes the most successful people in this world is when they make it not about them, they make it about other people or honoring the character that, you know, saved you or got you through a hard time.

33:06 Yeah. Like channeling. Yeah. And I’m sure I want to hear more about the audition, but I’m guessing that they felt that, you know, when you were auditioning. So I was just like very, I don’t think that’s something that the character didn’t hold back. I remember them, my dad always reminds me of this story that they said to me like, Oh, what, why should we pick you?

33:25 And I was just like, I had this answer. I was like, well, I know I, I’m going to play this character the best. I know her the best. And I was like, if you don’t pick me, that’s okay. That’s your choice, but you’re going to be wrong. I’m just like, my dad tells me this story. He, every like, he’ll remind me this at points. He’ll be like, as your young, you know, the philosophical self told me. And I’m like, yeah, I don’t have that same kind of just self possession and confidence for everything. But that one was, and I, I do, I look back and I feel like I need to channel that side of me more often.

34:03 Right. Right. So you fly to London for this open audition with your dad. Yeah. And how many other actresses are trying for this part? And what’s that?

34:11 Just take me. What’s that scene look like? I’m just kind of curious. How does it feel like for you? So we got in the night before the audition was, they told us on the website, they said on the website, it was start at eight and doors would open at 12. So we got there for about a quarter to eight. You had been in a bed and breakfast and we were all set for the day. We were like, cool, all doing this.

34:32 And like, we got there and the taxi drop is off as the top of the queue. And there was just like streets and streets of people winding. And we were like, oh, so we’re actually late. But they expect you to wait for four hours until it started and you were late by doing their four hours ahead. Yes, exactly. Because people have been queuing overnight and there was like all this press around and everything. So we walked all the way to the back of the queue to the 15 minutes and yeah, got there and just queued. It was really fun actually talking to other girls. There were a lot of really like, um, well, she types like everyone was like showing off and saying what they were going to do. And um, normally I would be intimidated by that, but it wasn’t because I knew that wasn’t Luna. And then there was a girl in front of me in the queue and her mom and me and my dad talked to them. And uh, we had been told that you have to be between the ages of 13 and 16.

35:23 And when we, and we had to be like ID and everything, when we finally got to this top of the queue after four hours, uh, she was finding to be six months too young and she had to leave. So it was really like, look, that’s what I mean. Synchronistic. Like I was lucky. Look was on my side. Right. Okay. So you get to that line, open audition. Uh, what’s that day like for you? You know, what’s the process like? Did they know right away that you were on the short list? No, uh, well you all go through everyone of the age who’s queued up got seen and there was like several rooms. You have to fill in forms. We had to leave our parents outside and my dad was like, Oh, I’ll see you on the other side. See you at the exit. And, um, yeah, there was just a few stages filling your details. The first bit, and I really felt this was like, this was where I got nervous. It was where they lined up about 50 girls at a time. You had to step forward and one at a time step forward, say your name and where you were from. And that was where it was just like, basically it was just based on looks and, um, like height. And I don’t mean like prettiest as in like you have the right kind of look for the character. Um, and I, I knew I was like, wow, this could, this is not to do with talent or anything.

36:35 This is just something you can’t control. And yeah, I got, she, they, they picked out about five or six from each of those lines and then I got through to that and then they gave us a script, uh, to learn. And it was like the scene with the Thestrals and everyone else in the room was like talking and like with it within between each other. And I was very just studious. I was like, no, this is my job right now. I’m not here to make friends. And, uh, yeah. And then at one at a time we went through, read the scene and I knew that’s when I knew that they were interested.

37:06 Um, because they, she, she just kept, she just stopped and she was like, uh, do that again. She had that look in her eye that like, oh, you’re interesting. And then she said, can you, she said, can you get Fiona? And because I was such a Harry Potter nerd, I’d watched all the credits written to everyone in the cast. Basically I knew Fiona was the casting director. And then I was like, oh, it’s getting real. And Fiona came in after a few minutes and watched and gave a few notes. And then she was like, um, we’ll be in touch. And then, and I kind of was like, oh, that’s, isn’t that the thing that they tell actors we’ll call you? And it was a bit down at that point, but I was also like, maybe. And then I went outside and apparently my dad was losing his mind because I’d been in there for like two hours or something. Yeah. And that, so that was the first audition. Okay. And then was it kind of weeks and weeks? No, it was three days. Three days. So that happened on a Saturday. Yeah, Saturday. And then they called on Monday to arrange the screen test and the screen test. Suddenly it was, it was all so surreal. David Yates, the director was calling me saying he liked my tape and he was looking forward to meeting me. And then they were like, daddy Radcliffe will be in the audition.

38:15 I had pictures of him all over my wall. So I was just really not holding it together. Well, how do you keep it together when you know Radcliffe is going to be there and you have to act in your 14. Sometimes I think that added to the spacey quality of my Luna that I was just like, what is going on? That’s why I’m here. And that sometimes Dan would just talk to me and I would just stare at him because I was so like, Harry Potter, you know, I was overwhelmed.

38:42 And then that screen test was that Friday. Okay. And then they said yes. Yeah, three days later. Okay. And no, after the screen test, my dad was there with me again. And I remember David Yates, like, signed a book being like, really great audition. Great to meet you, Ivana.

38:59 I was heartbroken because I was like, he’s signing off. He thinks that he’s going to send me away from my dream role with a copy of a signed Harry Potter book, which I already have three of. Thank you very much. You know, I was just like, so I went back to this hotel. They put us in a fancy hotel and they cried all night. And my dad was like, you probably didn’t blow it. You never know. But I also, because I was so down about it, I think he was starting to believe she blew it. But then, yeah, then went home after Ireland. And then on Monday, I was back in school and I was waiting for the call. And I thought I had this idea in my head that if I missed the call, I wouldn’t get, they’d call the next girl. They’d be like, oh, she doesn’t want it. So, but they called me after school and told me. And then that’s it. No more tests. You got it.

39:43 No more tests. Yeah. It was just that screen test. They were pushed for time. They were filming very soon. Yes. Okay. And they did the open audition because they just hadn’t been able to find people. They have people, I think that they really wanted to, that they were interested in, but they did the open audition and they actually announced that.

40:00 And I saw that on the websites that they had their final five for Luna, but then they said open audition just to check to see what’s out there. Wow. You trumped somebody else. Okay. And what’s the next year of your life like? And do you remember much? And was it, what was it? What I would think it would be or is it like, do people not understand that acting is just like any other work and you have to put in that work and it’s not all red carpets and stuff. I mean, now it’s, it’s more work.

40:29 It wasn’t work then I enjoyed all of the acting was so easy. And I think it was also the better, the writing, the easier the acting is like I’ve had since a lot of projects and even auditions where the characters so thinly written. They’re just a plot device for somebody else. And none of Jakey Ronin’s characters were this. So it was very, it was really effortless. It was more, I understood her, I’d read her so much and I’d imagined her so much. So it was like, all the work had been done for that. And also we had the best team. We had a director, David Yates, who was so sensitive and I’ve since learned that not all directors are that way and they’re not talented the way he is that he saw as a collaboration, even to me at that age as a 14 year old, he credited me with, with this, I don’t know, just the idea that you know your character more than I do. He’s like, I’m not playing her. Whereas a lot of directors are like, this is my character. I wrote and created her and you are going to do what I say. And they sometimes directors will try and feed you their experiences. And that can only be like, cerebral that can never be in your heart because you haven’t experienced it. But David Yates really understood that. So anytime he was unsure of a decision I made or way I was playing it, he would, he would just question me. He would just like, talk to me, ask me a lot of questions to the point where I’d be like, Oh yeah, I hadn’t seen it that way. That’s actually more of what I

41:52 Want to do. Yeah, it’s very sensitive directing. So, um, no, never felt like work doing the acting part, but the whole other side of it, the publicity and the going back to school and, and suddenly being like famous and people acting weirdly, I was not equipped to deal with that. That was difficult. Okay. And that’s not fun. No matter how you slice it.

42:11 I was just, I was an awkward kid. I was introvert and I would sometimes read at lunch times and I didn’t really, yeah. And I kind of kept, I was very angry about like this attention that suddenly people found me interesting and suddenly wanted me to be my friend. It was like, no, I’m not going to, uh, you know, some people, I probably should have embraced that more and tried to make friends, but, um, I think I saw that it was all a bit fake and that annoyed me.

42:41 And so I, I kind of turned against people more. I would talk to people less. Um, which yeah, now in that situation, I would, I would be act very differently. I think I would see that as an opportunity now when people are interested in me because of what I did or what I do, you see as an opportunity to get to know them and ask the questions and to invite them on my podcast if they’re vegan. But yeah, back as a teenager, I find it very confusing and, um, yeah, that’s a bit, it was very jarring. Did you stay in that school in Ireland?

43:12 My sisters were there and my dad was there, a teacher and I did have friends there, had a good few friends who pretty much, they all treated me the same. There’s more than other people that knew people. Okay. But they, you would be like on the silver screen, they would see the movie come out and then you would roll up to school and this happened through multiple films. Well, the films came out during the summer. Okay. But still, it is a strange circumstance, right? A quiet, yeah. But again, it’s like Irish people, they don’t make too much of a fuss. Okay. And you’re glad you stayed there as opposed to some private school. Did you ever think about moving to London or the family or anything? Going to Dublin. Not while doing school. No, no, I was really happy, comfortable at that school. Um, I didn’t want to have to start again and be, yeah, people, like my friends, they already knew me for who it was. So, um, no, it wasn’t until after school that I left. Okay. And you were part then of the Harry Potter train for the next how many years?

44:07 It was like four to five years. Okay. And by the time that that was coming to an end, was it, was it time to be over? Were you looking for it to be over at that point? Or again, if you had to summarize those five years of what you learned, maybe good parts, bad parts, what would you tell us? Um, I really learned, uh, that all these people are normal. They just don’t doubt themselves.

44:32 Um, I think I walked around those sets a lot of the time feeling like I don’t belong or I don’t deserve to be here and, uh, I’m going to get found out and then all these people are so much more talented than me. And I think like working with them over the years, I was like, well, they’re actually not like significantly more talented. They just really work hard and they work hard because they don’t continuously think that they’re a waste of space. It’s again, I think it’s that confidence breeds a better work ethic and that you invest in yourself. And I really found that like, Oh yeah, it’s just about these people are talented and they’re nice and they’re hard working. And it’s just that they, they, they stay on track. They keep doing that. Okay. And were you able to get those personality traits by working alongside of them over the years? I think so. Yeah, definitely more and more. And, um, it’s not, not as, I wasn’t as good as it with them, but I just start to see acting more as a job and a Bible craft, a really amazing one, but craft.

45:35 And, uh, the actors were normal people too. And then I think I saw, I gained perspective from when I would go and do events publicity and people would treat me the same way I used to treat these actors. And I was just like, I haven’t changed. I’m the same person. I haven’t done anything different. It’s, it’s what this big corporation has put on me. What this big thing, this world, like it’s just projection. It’s just totally, it’s a different perspective.

45:58 It’s a, it’s a different way of, yeah, of viewing that world. And I was like, Oh, it’s kind of, you kind of have to laugh at it of what they see at one minute, you’re a teenager and one, and then you’re an actress. And it’s like, no, there was no thing that made me this. I was always had this inside me and rambling, but yeah, I just, I didn’t, I didn’t see it as like, Oh, they’re the special people anymore. I was like, no, they’re just people who work hard and they love what they do. Yeah. So you’re doing this from 14 to 18, 19. Yeah.

46:31 Some teenagers can’t handle that, right? There’s hundreds of stories of Hollywood, of, you know, child actors not being able to handle all that fame. How do you think you were able to see that? I feel like more and more I’m seeing the opposite. These people are like children, teenagers now are getting, they’re so focused. They don’t, they’re not doing the off the rails drinking, smoking thing. Their drug is work. Yeah. I guess maybe you’re right.

46:54 Maybe they’ll, I definitely see those on the Instagram feeds where they’re like a new level. That’s what I mean. But so maybe it’s, is it a classic just cliche of Hollywood that is it? I don’t know, but I’m sure it does happen. I mean, those are interesting years anyways, maybe you had matured already with dealing with the anorexia early. I don’t know, but I’m just wondering why you think maybe, or maybe it’s just your upbringing and I’m I think it was my upbringing. And also you weren’t in LA, right? Because movies were made here.

47:21 That probably helped. Probably. I think it was more to do with my parents that they gave me my siblings so much freedom and choice. Like even, I think I remember my friends used to be amazed being like, you don’t have like, uh, I love curfews in American word, but didn’t have a curfew. Didn’t have like, my parents didn’t even say things like don’t drink or don’t do drugs. And I think one time I like went to a fancy party when I was 16 and I took a drink and I came home and my dad was, he like cried and he got really upset, but it wasn’t.

47:50 How dare you do that? Don’t ever do that again. It was more like, oh, my child’s innocence is being lost. They’re being changed by the world. And they, but they still gave us freedom. Like, you’re going to do what you’re going to do.

48:00 My mom has that philosophy very much. I have a few tattoos in a few places and I sometimes say to her, I’m like, does it bother you? And she’s like, ah, you’re going to do what you’re going to do. Like that is just, she, it may be it bothers her, but she gave us, they gave us so much choice and trust to the point where all of my siblings are hairy. We’re all quite hard on ourselves and we’re all just very focused on what we do. Yeah. And I think if you have parents who don’t give you that kind of trust, like that’s a very adult thing to be like, you know best for you.

48:30 So what are you going to do with it? What are you going to do with your life? And you don’t feel a need to, you feel like, oh, I have to make these decisions and nobody’s going to stop me or put limits or anything. Yeah. Best memory from that whole four or five years. Oh, gosh. Um, on the films. Yeah. Or just being a part of that whole thing. All the times I got to spend with JK Rowling were really special. What, when did you finally both realize that you had been, you know, cast? And then you were cast. She was told, um, so the producer told me that something they do is, um, as a courtesy to her whenever they’ve cast the new movie, they sent her like a list of all the people who’ve been added and she saw my name on the list and she was like, wait, what? And so she called them up and she said, can you check that it’s the same address as this girl? And they gave her my address and she was like, oh my God, this is actually the same person because it happened within two weeks. So I didn’t have a time. I didn’t have time to tell her that I was even going for the audition. And so they told her, and then I got the coolest letter of my life where it was just like, sure. And then it was all block capital. The entire letter.

49:43 It’s the coolest thing. Yeah. Oh my God. That was the first few words. Oh my God. I think she said, Oh my God for about four sentences. Yeah. So the moments with her were kind of the special parts. Yeah. She’s such an inspiration to me, how creative she is and, and also had kinds like to this day, she really is how she’s so generous of her spirit and time with people. And yet she has such a crazy brain. Like she could afford to be not that nice. She, you know, she has an edge if you see her Twitter, her views on Twitter and how she deals with people. She definitely has an edge, but she is very, very kind and loving. Okay. And worst memory of those four or five years.

50:27 Oh God. Um, I suppose like some of the dealing with the harsh criticism, I think early on in the, that period, because I was a Harry Potter fan who used to go on all the comment boards, I was going on comment boards and then I was seeing really nasty comments about me, about my physical appearance and things like that. And as a 14 year old, I was just like, wow, why does the world hate me so much? And the whole thing that the world is proving to you this fear that you’re not enough. Like, and your mom tells you, no, that’s in your head. It’s not true. And then there’s people writing, you are not enough. So those were hard to deal with, but the publicity team were amazing. I remember they all said, don’t read the comments. And it took a while to wean myself off them. But even hearing like Dan and Emma, a few other people telling me like, no, don’t worry. And I was like, wait, you’re Emma Watson. You’re flawless. Why would comments affect you? You know, but the fact that she was still human or some of those other actors were still human and it still bothered them. It was like, Oh, they are actually meaningless. And these are people who, uh, I’ll never meet and I, who I never do want to know. Because if you actually put yourself in that situation, what would it take to make you be nasty enough to say unkind things about a 14 year old’s appearance? It’s like, no, don’t want to know those people.

51:41 I shouldn’t be taking opinions from them. So yeah, those are difficult. Those times. And now looking back, why, why was Harry Potter so successful? Well, why if you had to put it in your own words, like, why did that become such a global phenomenon? Why?

51:58 I, uh, I think it was, it’s just the writing. I think it’s the books that it’s like a fantasy series and we all have this urge to like escape and being a different world to have that solace that books and movies give us. It had all that element and it had the most rich, beautiful, interesting world. But the people at the center of the story were so relatable. The characters, they were all teenagers and Harry always had that feeling of like, why me? I’m nothing special. And I’m supposed to go defeat the greatest, you know, dark wizard of all time. Um, I think we all have that feeling of being a fraud at the center of what we’re all things were given and all the places were put.

52:38 And I just love that about Harry and how he faced that. And yeah, all the teenagers in the books, those are the kids. Okay. So back to, back to JK’s writing. It was just her amazing writing.

52:48 Yeah. Pulled that along. Yeah. Okay. Life after Harry Potter. Um, you decide to go to LA.

52:55 Yeah. Tell me about why you decided that and then what the whole experience was like. Um, I really want to be an actor. And, um, I think at the time I was like, I was, I was with an agency who wasn’t fully, didn’t really believe in me. I think they saw me as a child star who was going to slowly transition out of that. And I really wanted to be an actor. I think I hadn’t been clear about that, um, early on. And I think, you know, I’d said, I don’t know, after Potter, I was like, give me all the roles. And they were like, you should go to university. You should get a plan B. And I’m just not very sensible person.

53:31 I don’t believe in taking the parents talking to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get the real job.

53:36 Yes. Um, and it annoyed me. So, and then I met a manager. He’s still my manager. He was from LA and he was like so encouraging and nice and kind of saw what I was and what I wanted. And he encouraged me. So he was like, come out to LA, spend some time here. I was like, I’ll go out for three months and stayed five years. Yeah.

53:55 What’s LA like from your eyes? It’s like a very happy, easy lifestyle, you know, and it becomes a bit too easy because the sunshine, the fact that everyone has a car, you don’t have to do public transport and everyone’s an artist. Like it becomes so easy. Not not easy because it’s not, there’s a lot of loneliness. You can be very lonely and you can spend years out there working towards a dream that it feels like you’re totally on your own doing that. But, um, yeah, people are quite happy. And but I think I got to be like, I miss the grit. I miss the feeling like I was, uh, schlepping, um, which I think New York has the opposite. They, when you go there, you’re like, Oh, it’s all schlepping. It’s all so much energy. Um, well, as I said earlier, what I loved about it was that people were real dreamers and like you gave them the idea and idea and they would really believe in it. They wouldn’t just dismiss it the way in Ireland. They’d be like, ah, get over yourself. You know, uh, I think they were really, all my acting teachers took me seriously and my, my visions and goals and everything.

55:01 They really treat me, uh, they, they nurtured the artist in me. Okay. And you said it for five years. Yeah. Did movies out there, TV, yeah, I did a few things. I did a few independent movies.

55:16 Um, yeah, just kind of messed around for a few years at first being like trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Learned about how independent filmmaking is so different to those big movies because you really have to look out for yourself because it’s, there’s the resources are so low. Like no one has enough money, no one has enough time. So it’s not like there are 20 people gazing intently at your performance being like, what does she need? No, it’s like, you’re very much on your own. And even things that I learned from other actors, you have to really fight for second takes. Um, which was a luxury we had on Potter that you never, you could just keep going and going and going. And, uh, yeah, those takes can make all the difference in your performance. And I think because I had, I was spoiled for that on the Potter films, I would use those early takes of being like getting rid of the nerves and relaxing into it. And it’s like, yeah, they’re, they’re using the nervous takes as the story. Um, so yeah, that was, that was strange. But then I, the last few years I started to notice, um, I took a break for a while. I studied Meisner acting, uh, for like a year and a bit. And I loved it.

56:24 It was the best, it was the best thing. One of the best things I’ve done for my career. Um, And what is that for people that don’t know that aren’t actors? Meisner is all about listening and kind of training your truthful impulses to be, uh, yeah, really listening. And this, and this is something that I keep coming back to this idea that listening is a submissive, uh, art kind of, it’s like, cause talking is easy because you know yourself, you know what you’re going to say.

56:52 And I realized I have to talk this whole interview. That’s what you’re supposed to do. Um, uh, and I have a hard time with this on my podcast letting go of actually, cause sometimes I have anxiety for my guests. I’m like, what if we can’t answer? But it, it, this, it’s just this idea that when you listen to someone, they can change you, they can surprise you. And it’s surrendering to the unknown, uh, which the best actors can do. They have that ease and they have that, um, security in themselves that they can listen fully to somebody and be changed by it and they don’t need to hold on so tightly to who they are. Um, and yeah, Meisner, it’s for a lot of the time you’re just repeating yourself or there’s this repetition exercise of just saying very simple things so that you fully are listening and fully are tuned in.

57:39 And it freed me from this idea that I had to process feelings a certain way, you know, like, and sometimes that is the curse of bad writing. If you read something, they tell you actor cries here or throw a fit or burst into giggles. And it’s like, I don’t feel like that. And that, but you force yourself to, and that’s bad acting. And Meisner was like acceptance.

58:01 Even like there’s this exercise when you’re preparing for a scene, you get rid of all this, all the stage directions and all the punctuation, no question, you know, your life question, no, like exclamation marks, none of the dot, dot, dots, because sometimes actors will see those and they start reading the punctuation. It’s not actually coming from inside. It’s not coming from in here. And Meisner was just like, uh, you know, you take all that back. If something doesn’t make you sad, don’t be sad, you know, and trust that what you have inside you is enough.

58:31 Yeah. Yeah. That’s powerful. So you studied that in LA and got kind of a new look at your own, your own trade of acting. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I remember I took a short, a film course, a part-time film course at Ealing Studios, and they said the worst thing you can do when you direct your actors is to tell them how to act. And yet I think it’s probably a mistake.

58:53 Everyone acts differently. Yeah. It’s like telling them how to be a human being, isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The idea that, you know, what something affects you will not affect me.

59:03 And that person is playing the character. So how can you force them to be your version of it? That’s the thing that a lot of directors forget. Like you’re, this is a, this person is like kind of giving birth to a character and you can’t make them, you can be there to guide them and encourage them, but you can’t do it for them. Yeah. You have to cast them and then trust them. Yeah.

59:25 Let it go. Right. Just like the director, you hire the director and then you let him or her do it. Yeah. You don’t trust their vision. Yeah. No, you do not interfere with the story or vision.

59:35 You only fight for your character. You can only speak from your character’s perspective. Will you direct someday? No. Okay. I will write. You’re right. I do not think I, I’m very much, I get obsessed with the details of the new show, which is why acting is nice for me.

59:52 But the idea that I have to accommodate or not accommodate, but talk to all these other people and have a vision for the whole thing. I would probably kill myself. I don’t know how to do it. I’m not exaggerating. I would find that so stressful. Don’t know how to do it. It’s amazing.

1:00:06 Yeah. It’s a big job. And let alone the ones that direct and act as well. Yeah. That’s got to be crazy. Yeah.

1:00:11 And that’s like, that’s crazy. Yeah. To write it and then all that stuff. Don’t know how, yeah. Why come back to London and what’s that been like being here and being an actor in London? What does it feel like? I guess it’s not a town full of actors, but.

1:00:24 Goodness. No, it is. And it’s more, it’s more intimate family. You actually know names and you see returning faces. And in LA, that’s one thing I didn’t like where you would have a great meeting and they’d be so nice and they’d be like, well, we’re going to see you again.

1:00:39 And then never see them at you again. Whereas in London, you know, if they don’t like you, they pretty much are upfront. And I really, that is such a relief to know to not like, because I would, that was something that started to get me in LA. I was like, I’m having these great meetings. These people seem to love me and then they never call me again. And I’m going crazy. And then London, it’s not that so much. So there’s more of a Irish values.

1:01:05 Yes. Yeah. It’s more of a family and people tend to work on the same things. If they work well together, they tend to put you first. They’ll think of you first rather than bringing in a whole.

1:01:16 Whereas in LA, I think they’re always looking for a new talent, which is good for the newbies, but there’s no sense of loyalty there. Really. From what I experienced, this is all my experience. Okay. And tell me about the stage. Why go on the stage? What’s that like? Yeah. It must be exciting in a different way. How do you make that transition? Tell me.

1:01:39 Yeah. I always wanted to, to me, I didn’t really think too much about going on like the differences. I was just like, it’s always about the writing and the character and, and a while she’s such a brilliant writer. He’s so unique. It’s like, how does he think of this way of speaking and these people? But yeah, then I, I guess I, I started to do, and I, I find it a lot more difficult than film. Your imagination has to work so much harder. And that’s something my, my teacher taught me. Alex, he was always like, imagination is more important, the most important tool that you have as an actor. And then, and then on stage, it’s like, you’re doing the same material all the time. So you’re constantly like something that affected you one way, one night, don’t do anything at all. And you’re just like, I didn’t feel anything because I was trying to live in the past. I was trying to work off something I used to feel. And, you know, there, there would have been experiences I was using it like it in, in disco pigs. And I’d be like, I feel that from acting it out, from feeling it and going through the feelings. I’ve healed my attitude to that situation in my life. And yeah, I just found I was always having to refresh and look deeper and explore more. And also the other crucial difference is that the director leaves you after rehearsals after press night. It’s like, actors have free run of things. Really? Yeah,

1:03:02 That was really terrifying. Is that always the way it is? I don’t know. So okay, so the director prepares you and then you go with it. They do press night because press night is important. And then they go on to their own job. And I was like, got my co-star in disco pigs as an actor as well.

1:03:16 I’ll just realize what I said. He’s a theater actor. He said he’s a like, he’s done a lot more theater than me. And I was just like, he’s just abandoning us. And we’re just on our own. And he’s like, yeah, that’s normal. And he actually really enjoyed that part of it because he felt more free. No notes. But I think I liked the idea that my character had a God, as in the director was God who was being like, do it or this. Or, you know, just like looking out for you and making sure you’re on track. Because in movies, you’re ultimately performing for the director, aren’t you? And so the actor always is looking for some feedback from God. No, that’s a terrible way to think. Is it true? No. I did as a child, definitely. I would be like looking for his, you know, but no, it’s you’re doing it for your character. That is the only person you’re there to serve. Your director is your collaborator. And he’s like the only other person on the set who’s as obsessed with this story as you are. And I found that very much on when I filmed My Name’s Simon Fitzmorris. He, yeah, we were just both really obsessed with her story and we would talk about it. It was just like a friend to explore this with who had an overall vision. But no, it wasn’t ever to please them. I mean, the human part of you wants to, because you’re like, I like working with you. I respect you. I want to get more work. But no, it’s for the character.

1:04:44 Can you talk about that movie and him and also his passing? Yeah, yeah. My Name’s Emily. That was a film I did in 2014. It was another very synchronistic kind of thing. And I’ve actually been to like a psychic six months before who mentioned his name way before I knew him was like, this person is going to be influential on you.

1:05:04 It was an American psychic. So it was like the idea. Well, she said the name Fitzsimmons, which was kind of his name. His name is Simon Fitzmorris. It was like, it was weird. But then my friend was reading for that role. And I was talking to her that day and she was like, no, you should read for this. You’d be way better for this. And all these kinds of things. It was very synchronistic. And it was just like a really beautiful, vivid script. It was the kind of character that really made me sit up and be like, I need to step up to be this character.

1:05:34 I can’t do this. I can’t be lazy about this. She’s a big character. And it was a very brave script. And that it dealt with grief head on it talked about, it was about Emily losing her mother and how her life just fell apart, how her dad went kind of insane and was taken to a mental home. And how there’s this pressure to be happy and to be okay. And all the society tells you that where she’s like, no, I’m sorry, my mother just died. A part of me is gone. Something, the way my life was, and they’ll never be this way again. And that’s taken away. And she really wanted to grieve for that and, and to feel all her feelings. And that very much came from Simon, for people who don’t know Simon had a motor neuron disease. He had it when I met him.

1:06:22 He can only move his eyes, he communicates with his eyes and a screen, spelling out every word, every word, every letter. And he, that like that was, that was his philosophy that that you should just feel everything and not be ashamed and also not be afraid to, to, to say and live and feel everything. And he absolutely embodied that. He was so, whatever he was feeling, he was very truthful. And I think part of that was his condition forced him to do that. He didn’t have any energy or words or time to waste because it took so long to say hello. Like you couldn’t make small talk with Simon. You couldn’t be like, Hey, how are you? Cause he would spend like three minutes writing. And so we got to be, we got to a very, you get very deep with Simon very quickly and very vulnerable. And even things like, you know, people have struggled to say, I love you. And Simon, early on in filming, I remember to George, the other actor and I, he would just be like, you call us over and he would just say, I love you. And it was like, it was so lovely and beautiful and such a gift. And it’s like, of course that’s what we all feel. We don’t say it because we don’t want to come off as too much or like too intense and scare people off. And Simon just didn’t care about that stuff. Yeah. He was just so much, so authentic and so raw all the time.

1:07:46 Yeah. And he passed away in October and, um, I was very abrupt. I don’t think anybody expected. Well, I mean, I hadn’t seen him for a few months and obviously with that disease, you never know. But, um, he, he just was somebody who was so passionate about life. He loved life and stories and he didn’t, he didn’t have any of that resistance to life, which most people do, which I definitely do even like in creativity. I’d constantly, when I’m writing, I’m like, Oh, it’s not good enough. Can’t do it. Can’t do it. Simon didn’t care about being good enough.

1:08:18 He just wanted to express, to, to express his love and his feelings about life. And he just did it. And, um, I, I guess like, I just had this naive idea that like that is keeping him alive. His passion for life. No, I think it did. But, um, yeah, passed away in October.

1:08:36 And you got to learn those lessons from him though. Yeah. And they’re all still coming back to me. Things he says that I just didn’t get at the time because Simon was constantly like, you know, on the edge of death, he was not on the edge, but like he was having to confront the reality that he may not be in this world anymore. And he has to just get everything out as much as he can live. Like did that. He really did that thing of living every day. Like it was his last. Um, yeah. And that, that things he says, things that I ignored because I was like, I dunno, in my head or, um, even sometimes when we were having a conversation, Simon would say something that I would, that would like embarrass me because he would say something that was just too nice or too loving or, or he would even be rude about something and there’d be other people around and I’d be self-conscious. And then it was like, Oh, why’d I care what those people thought?

1:09:30 But I did. And that’s why sometimes, especially his emails, he would email a lot. You would just eat. Sometimes he would email me weird ass dreams that he had. And they would feel like anyone else would be like, I’m not, I’m going to come off as a weirdo, but he didn’t care. And it’s just like that authenticity really, uh, makes you sit up and makes you pay attention. And it keeps coming back to me now that he’s passed.

1:09:53 It’s good to have good mentors like that. Yeah. Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. People, friends, especially people who you can like be around and just that, you know, that osmosis thing that it just rubs off on you. Tell me about veganism and podcasting.

1:10:07 Okay. Um, yeah, I became vegan about four years ago, was vegetarian since I was a kid. So I just, I’m really grossed out by the idea of meat and the violence involved. I always loved animals. And I, I found like, I find animals are the most innocent beings and yet we do the worst things to them. Like it just doesn’t, uh, it’s not, it doesn’t make sense that we treat them that way. We use them so much. They enrich our lives so much. And people who eat their products, it gives you so much and yet we treat them awful. Uh, so how did the veganism go down in Ireland? Um, I think they’re really confused by it. My mom thought it was a bit excessive, but it’s something where I’ve like been in the nice position of getting to educate her now to be like, no, no, the humans are not these weird hippies who live in tree houses.

1:10:57 And you just eat kale. They had lived the same way. Like they don’t have to make all these sacrifices. It’s just a different way of living, uh, that we have to learn. And it’s also, you have to undo all the brainwashing society has told you that it’s okay to use animals.

1:11:13 And yeah, so no, my family are good with it now. And they, my mom is always learning new recipes. She sometimes like takes it a bit far because she buys all like the health food vegan books and she makes cakes out of avocados and no sugar. And it’s like, and then she’s really disappointed when it doesn’t work. And it’s like, well, we can use sugar. We there can be junk food vegans too. Um, yeah, no, she’s doing good with it. And now that’s why I had the podcast because I wanted to tell people to show people like you don’t have to be, there’s no stereotypical vegan. You can be yourself and vegan isn’t your defining trait.

1:11:48 I think sometimes people think it takes over your life or they think that, um, yeah, you’re going to become different or they think that you have to love animals. You know, it’s not even about loving animals. It’s about respecting that we’re all equal. And just because these creatures are different to us, doesn’t mean they’re any less than us. They’re, they are no less value. Like, I don’t think we get to decide that we don’t get to say animals were put on this earth for us because we didn’t make them. Yeah.

1:12:15 We didn’t make those lives. So we shouldn’t get to take it away. And yeah, the podcast is just to have conversations with nice vegans. And, um, I definitely, I don’t like the judgmental vegans because I really believe that everyone’s on their own journey. And we all hate animal. Well, most of us, one of my co-hosts is a lifelong vegetarian, but most of us say animals and we were not, I wasn’t a bad person. My family who eat them are not bad people. They just don’t see it that way yet, in my opinion, yet. But yeah, they don’t see it that way. And I think we have to be compassionate towards where everyone’s at with that. Well, on London meal, we have a history of having a variety of guests on talking about, you name it. Um, and lately we’ve had quite a few different people talking about plant-based diets, vegans. So we had Dr. Michael Gregor on who, uh, yeah, he’s really fascinating guy and he’s really all about the science. He actually doesn’t consider himself a vegan. He just talks about plant-based diets because he said a vegan tells me what you don’t eat, not what you do eat.

1:13:14 That was an interesting point. Um, but he was really good and he dropped all sorts of science. He’s got a great book called how not to die. Oh, yes. Yeah, that book has changed so many people. Have you read it? Yes, I have. Yeah. And then he walked me through, yeah, it’s huge.

1:13:27 Walking through like the top 10 chapters and it’s, he goes through all the diseases, heart disease and lung cancer and diabetes and all of these things and how ultimately eating a plant-based diet can help all of those. So he’s a really interesting guy. He’s very science based. Then we had James Aspey come in who is an Australian vegan activist. Yeah, he did the Vow of Silence for a year. Yeah, he did the Vow of Silence for a year, um, you know, which is a big deal. Yeah. It’s kind of why I had him on because I’m like, all right, you know, you’re, you’re walking the walk and, um, you know, he comes at it from a different standpoint. He is on Instagram right now doing a five day fast in front of a slaughterhouse.

1:14:02 And so I see, yeah, I see his videos now and he goes up and he shows the pigs going in and the police have like a riot line out in front and like, and so he’s showing, he’s a different type of vegan, an activist in that sense. And he had a whole history, actually a bulimic eating disorder as well as a male and really interesting stuff. Some, uh, he had cancer, I think when he was 18. He had some serious drug problems and now he’s a vegan activist, very interesting guy. So I had a great talk with him. Then I had a guy named John Joseph who was a former lead singer of the punk band, the chromags that were really big in New York city in the eighties. Um, who has a book called meat is for pussies and it’s a great book and he’s been a vegan since for 31 years because he was a hard Krishna back in the day and, and he’s quite a different guy because he can get on the stage and like seriously rocket and like stage dive and like be really aggressive. And yet he thinks it’s so obvious that you shouldn’t eat meat. And his book is interesting because it hits a lot of stereotypes. Like it’s manly to eat meats and all of these things that are built into our psyche, especially as men. And he talks to you as kind of this kind of alpha kind of male.

1:15:07 And now he does a lot of triathletes. Yeah. And he’s in his fifties now. And, um, you know, he’s crazy and he used to talk about like smoking crack for three days and then going to get a wheatgrass juice because he was still vegan. And so like, it’s just this interesting character.

1:15:21 So, um, I’m blaming, um, uh, Ruth from our guest booking department for all of these. And now you, but look, as I told you before, I am eating more of a plant based diet. I probably go meatless one or two days a week. It just feels better for me. And I’m doing a lot of movement lately, a lot of body weight stuff and it just feels like the right thing. So to be continued. Cool.

1:15:42 Oh, I’m excited for you. But it’s interesting getting all of these messages. Yeah. Tell me about the podcast. Cause that’s a big move to jump into your own media space. I’m sure it was a little scary. Um, yeah. What’s that like? Yeah. Um, Oh no, it was scary, but I love podcasts. I’ve got, I’ve been a big fan of them. Uh, I like to, like when I’m reading, not running, when I’m cooking or when I’m, uh, driving, I just like, I like the kind of commerce, like these conversations, what you’re having right here where it’s just not controlled and it just shows.

1:16:12 I’m really interested in people. And I found that I was in this weird position where the vegan community got so excited when I went vegan, they were just like, they want me in all their magazines and things. And I was just, I was like, I’m not the expert here. You guys are like, a lot of these people as our 30 year vegans, like imagine being vegan 30 years ago when we didn’t have all these like substitutes. And so I just was going to these places and I was meeting all these really fascinating, like, yeah, people like you describe like, um, Michael Weger, James Aspie. And it’s like, you’re interesting. I’m going to talk to you and I want to show people how veganism can be normal. Um, so yeah, that’s why I started and I, I’m in this very lucky position where pretty much anyone in the vegan community, which is a niche community, anyone I reach out to will be on podcast. So it’s like, it’s just, it was all perfectly, everything was in place for me to do a podcast. Is that because of your street cred? Because you’re an actress?

1:17:08 Because I have just like a stupid fact that I have a million and something followers on Twitter. People just see that and they’re like, okay, you know, cause they can get their message across and some people have children who are Harry Potter fans and just little things like that. It’s silly, but I’m grateful for it. You know, this is, I really don’t care about fame, but it’s important to me. It helps me so much to do my work when, yeah, when I can do something like this, when people are interested in me and then I can bring them to, you know, last week on our podcast, we had a vegan bodybuilder and so many people, that is the thing they say, where do vegans get their protein from where you can’t be strong and I’m a dude and I like to work out.

1:17:49 And it’s like, okay, well I can show you this person. I, I love that. That’s really exciting to me. Yeah. And you embrace using your fame for this. You don’t feel bad or guilty or anything.

1:17:59 No, no, no, I don’t. I don’t. I think, uh, I just believe in it so much. I believe the world is so skewed and it’s, uh, it’s relationship with animals and no, I’m, I have no, and I, I’ve told you, I’m really weird about even sharing an interview of myself on my page. I’m just like, how is that helping the world? What is the point of this? Or a photo shoot of yourself looking pretty? I’m like, that is so self-indulgent. And it’s just, that’s the Irish thing that my parents would just be like, why? What is that? What good is that good doing for the world?

1:18:30 I really feel that. And whereas again, the veganism, whenever it’s about veganism and whenever it’s about animals, it’s not about me. It’s like, cool, I’ll get out of the way and I’ll just be in service. Yeah. I think it’s a great way of using that Twitter following to, to push a message, your passion. What a great way also for you to connect with all sorts of amazing people. I know. Yeah. I’ve met so many people. I’ve made a lot of friends, the community through this. Yeah. I do try and sometimes mix it off by definitely over sharing social media. And I also try and like talk about my projects and my cat because I know not all my followers are vegan, but the reason I do it so much is I believe deep down, I think everyone is a vegan.

1:19:12 I don’t think anyone is okay unless they’ve been really desensitized to which most of us have been. I don’t think people believe it’s okay to take a life in a violent way. And I’m just trying to connect them to that again. Yeah. That thing that we have as children of like, but yeah, protect the innocent. Yeah. I definitely think people wouldn’t eat the meat if they were in the slaughterhouse. I really don’t think that I’m actually going to have a hunter on here. And because I honestly believe that hunters have a better relationship with meat than the rest of the world that walks around blindly because maybe they go out in nature and maybe they honor the animal and all of these types of things. So I kind of want to have that conversation too, just to see where they’re coming from. But yeah, I think you’re totally right.

1:19:57 Now if I keep following James Aspey’s Instagram feed, he’s going to get me there sooner than later. But look, I’ve been not completely plant-based, but much more in the last couple months. And I am like, I am just a beast in the gym and I’m stronger than ever and I’m moving better than I ever have. So I feel great. So something’s going on here and to be continued.

1:20:18 I know you talked to Connor’s movement coach. Yeah, Ido Portal. He doesn’t like vegan. No, Ido eats more red meat than the people showing you that you can do it. And I think that’s great. Yeah, there are outliers.

1:20:37 Like I will say the vegans are going at the moment like to be vegan. You do have to be very passionate and you do have to be quite organized and it does take up a lot of your mind. But I think the community are going to make it easier and easier for everyone else to be kind of lazy vegans to casually choose the plant-based option. And at the moment, you do sort of have to work for it. And I love those people that they do. But I just think it’s I think the world is moving more towards that way. Yeah, there are more and more choices every day. Look, the vegan community suffers from having people in all different parts of the spectrum, which may be good and bad. I think maybe it’s good because you’re going to have four different types of vegans here all with their own ideas and agendas. And they don’t have to say the same thing. A lot of times when I bring up vegan to some of them, they’re like, actually, that’s not me. That’s someone else. So they’re like, yes, I eat these things, but I don’t associate it with this faction or whatever. But I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.

1:21:29 No, it’s another route to it. And that’s one part of being an activist is like finding out which fascinates them, which is most important to them. I mean, I tend to, I always work from the ethical point because I’m very much like a heart-led person. And I also think it’s the side of vegan activism and animal rights that you just can’t argue with. Like you can argue with, oh, everything in moderation for health. Maybe plant-based is best, but if you have a look, and where it’s, if you plant animals first, there’s no two ways about it.

1:21:59 Yeah, you’re right. And lately I’ve been watching again, James again, and he said, you know, you kill this animal so you can have a taste in your mouth for a minute. And he said, yeah, you never do this creature, this soul. They gave up something for you, and you don’t even know them or think about them. And sometimes you throw that piece of them in the bin.

1:22:16 Really gets me sad. Yeah, well, it’s good. You’re going to be finding your voice as this podcast. That’s true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s why I’ve not got sponsors yet. Because I’m like, ah, I want to figure out who we are. And I don’t have to get sponsors. They’re paying the butt.

1:22:28 Really? I don’t have them anymore. I just say no to anybody. It’s just not worth it because sooner or later it will affect your message or they’ll want to affect it or something. And I just think if you don’t have to, then don’t. It’s my thought. But yeah, Ido eats a lot of red meat.

1:22:43 And I think also he just likes making fun of them just because he likes making waves. And so there you go. But that’s good. It’s good to have a little diversity out there. The community will get to him. Yeah. Podcasting your episode five, right?

1:22:56 Okay, good. And so that’s a, we have a few technical difficulties. So it’s late today. Wednesday is our day for release. Okay, but you’re weekly.

1:23:03 Weekly. Yes, every Wednesday. So it will be in by midnight tonight. Yeah. Please subscribe. It’s called the chick peeps. It’s on iTunes. It’s on Stitcher.

1:23:12 It’s on our website, the chickpeeps.com. Yeah, every week we have somebody new on. Good. I think it’s like the fountain of youth podcasting. I think it’s a great way to connect.

1:23:23 Everybody should be podcasting. So I agree. That’s awesome. When you think of the word success, I’m curious who comes to mind? Could be anyone historical, someone in the business or just someone you know, personally.

1:23:36 Gosh, yeah, success. Um, hmm.

1:23:49 That’s supposed to be an easy question. I suppose like that question plays on like your my insecurities as an actor. I probably think of actors who are more successful than me who are working more than me. But um, I think I probably think of JK Rowling because obviously success, but her integrity is at the core of that. She’s her own boss. She’s running everything, you know, and she just doesn’t even have to answer to anyone in a way that’s that’s good in the way that like, yeah, she gets to her. All of her work has such a message of humanity and acceptance and she gets to do that and be free in it. Who would you say?

1:24:37 Oh, me. You know, I get very I get a variety of answers here. Sometimes people name a historic figure. Sometimes people say their father, their mother, you know, and less and less it’s someone that we would all consider successful like a billionaire. A lot of times it’s someone that just was a mentor. But no, I mean, no, that’s a good answer. What what keeps you awake at night?

1:25:04 Um, what keeps me awake at night? Grief, I think. Yeah, what’s what’s lost? Um, yeah, those times when I should have said more, especially lately with my friend with Simon having passed. Sometimes I’m just sad. I’m like, uh, that that it’s like that that’s gone forever. I know and got no, sorry, I’m actually going through some of this stuff at the moment, like emotionally. So I’m with him hard to work with with his with Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I’m finding it hard to articulate because I’ve just been like, what does it mean if somebody could be that passionate and that clued in and that awake and then suddenly and that the world needs and he’s doing everything right. And the world, you know, he still gets taken away. And that that keeps me awake at night. And I think also stories like there’s a person who I’ve been reading about a lot lately, Lucia Joyce, James Joyce’s daughter, and also Van Gogh, the artist, we read about those two and they’re people who are both so so pure and and gave so much to the world put so much into there. And people always say, you chew to your heart, your heart won’t need you astray. And yet, both of those people had so much pain in their life, he never achieved success. You know, that’s somebody talk about success, he never had it. And I think that that keeps me up the idea that you can keep following your heart and your parents, all the people around you just beat like even when you go through a breakup, and they say,

1:26:48 Oh, you’ll find someone better. And it’s like, that’s not necessarily true. You can be your best self and love so much. And you can put everything into your art like Van Gogh did, you can make the most beautiful, unique original pictures that nobody has ever seen or done before. And you can still be unhappy in the world can still not appreciate you. Really, really messes up my head.

1:27:10 I guess maybe you have to try to ask yourself why am I doing it? It’s not for happiness. That’s what I’ve come to. Yeah, maybe it’s not for happiness or appreciation. Exactly. Two different things. Totally. And I’m talking about my friend Simon, I’ve been thinking about him a lot too. I’m like, it can’t be for happiness. All it can be for is living authentically and being your real self. Like I think that that’s the worst thing, not being able to be yourself that like, if you can’t, if you can’t be that with yourself, who can you be honest with?

1:27:39 So but I think I’ve started to come and I and this is something new, something I didn’t have before, something because of recent experiences in my life to be like, Oh, I don’t think happiness is the goal. I don’t think happiness is the guarantee. If you follow your heart and if you follow your art from where it wants to go. And I think living intensely and fully, I think that’s the guarantee, but not happiness. I agree and authentically. And I think one of my guests said something recently to that effect that they realized that their happiness wasn’t actually the most important thing and that something else was more important. Their work, they’re being authentic, they’re getting these things done. And so they just chose to admit that. Whereas most people would literally solve for happy, which was one of my guests a few weeks ago, he wrote a book.

1:28:24 He’s a guy at Google who called solve for happy. And it’s all about how to increase our happiness. And I respect that opinion too, but it might not be the way for everyone. I yeah, I don’t think it’s the artist’s way. No, I think you’re right. And I think society, people want that film, my name is Emily talks a lot about that. People want you to be happy just for their convenience. But it’s not, I just don’t think it wakes people up. I find the films that really affect me the most are sad ones that make you be like, Oh, I shouldn’t do that.

1:28:54 I shouldn’t be reckless that way or shouldn’t be careless like that. I think definitely. And I would say adding on to what your friends had about your guests about happiness not being the thing. And I think it’s about as an actor about feeling feelings, feeling everything and just going fully into it and getting the full human experience. Yeah. Well, if that’s true about acting, then that’s true about life for the rest of us. Be with your pain and be with your grief. Yeah.

1:29:22 With your sadness. Yeah. Yeah. Like you actors are. Yeah. And that’s the only way that’s why I think acting like people see it as like self-indulgent, but I don’t, I don’t want to see it. And my acting teacher would say that that’s about truth telling. So it’s saying the things that a lot of people are afraid to say or cannot say, and I respect calling them out. So yeah. And I went off on the tangent there, but I just, yeah, I think that is, I think that is a real curse of society, this idea that be okay. Because lately as I’ve been going through this thing, the loss of my friend and other things, I’ve been like posting a lot online about my feelings and people keep being like, Oh, are you okay? I’m so sorry. Pity, all this pity for having feelings. And it really annoys me. It’s like having feelings doesn’t mean I’m weak. It doesn’t mean I’m incapable.

1:30:09 It’s just being human. And I actually like, I would much rather be feeling all my feelings and be apathetic and be disconnected. I would much rather just be hurting or loving or all of all those things at once. Yeah. Another one of my other acting teachers, Julie, she has a motto for class where she says, dare you the courage to be all of who you are all the time.

1:30:33 And that that’s what I want to be. That’s the kind of people I love and admire. Yeah. That’s well said. Yeah, it’s good, isn’t it? I think, you know, as the internet becomes bigger and social media becomes bigger, it’s trending toward that, you know, let’s always be happy type, type vibe and hate it. It’s poison. It’s curse. Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s not real.

1:30:53 That’s like self help books sometimes force that on you. And they think they’re helping you. Like obviously eventually you want to be happy, but the truth is sometimes you’re going through things where you’re just in grief and sadness. And the idea of like saying, just be happy or just pretend you are. I just think that makes you worse. It really, it undermines your feelings.

1:31:12 And that’s the only thing that really differentiates us humans that we have to strong feelings. So yeah, screw that. Just ignore that. That is not, that’s not the way through those feelings. Amen. If I were to ask your friends, what is Yvonne’s superpower?

1:31:28 The one that allows you to get things done. What would they say? Oh my God. Because obviously you’re able to get things done. Hmm. Um, my, actually it’s funny. One of my co-hosts, we were working on the podcast today and he told me the opposite of what you asked. He told me what my, he was like, you’re one flaws.

1:31:50 You don’t have perspective. You get obsessed with one thing and then everything else goes out of control. Not very good at routines. I get, yeah, not very good at balance. Um, I would say my super power is connecting speaking from my heart and always finding a way to connect to people that way. Um, yeah, I know, I know I’m good at that. I know it’s actually the only way I can communicate. Can’t deal in facts. Can’t be dealing like, uh, statistics. It has to be feelings. Yeah. What scares you? Um, uh, not, let me see, not being on tapped. Yeah, yeah, the idea that I will have wasted things. I remember I saw psychic once and he was like, actually, no, he told my sister this, but I took it on. I was really freaked out by it. He was like, you’re only using 70% of yourself. And I, that was a terrifying idea to me, but yeah, the idea of wasting yourself, opportunity, life. Okay. What would we be surprised to learn about you?

1:33:00 Um, rumor, you’re going to move to France and cut your hair. Oh my God. Oh, I told you that. Yeah. Um, that’s actually my secret dream that I, so all my friends always rant about, um, how they have these shit jobs and waitressing or just something that’s not very fulfilling.

1:33:23 And they talk about it. Like my friend used to talk about being in, uh, yeah, customer service or in sales and retail and it’s like hell on earth. And I really want that experience. I didn’t have that because I, um, I got my, the, the potter job so young and I never had those, I don’t, whenever people are talking about telling those stories about just awful, rude customers and stuff, I don’t have any of those stories. And I’ve never had a, um, a job where I wasn’t like, kind of at the focus of things. Um, I’m always known people know my name and I don’t know their name. And, um, I, I’m, I told you, I’m an introvert. I’m much more comfortable being a wallflower. Like when I go out, I don’t want to be, I like to be at the center when I’m doing my work at my art, but not, not in, not in like my personal life. So yes, I have this idea that I want to, cause I love French culture. We want to go to France and learn the language and everyone says you only learn it if you go there and like immerse yourself in the culture.

1:34:24 So I kind of want to like change my love, dye my hair and be a waitress there for like a year or something. Yeah. I told you in my friend jokes that I’m an actress just waiting for a good waitress and job, but yeah, I don’t know. I like that idea. I love that. Do you think if you dyed your hair the right color that you could go underground? Yeah definitely. People don’t recognize me. I sometimes wear wigs and even friends don’t recognize me. Really? Yeah. Cause it’s very like distinctive. This is, I’ve always had this long blonde hair. Okay. Yeah. So this is a real possibility of you doing this. I’m going to do it. You are? Yes. As soon as I get like a summer where I don’t have work. Yeah. You should create like an alter ego on your podcast. I love that.

1:35:07 Maybe I’m already ruining your plans. We’re like, we’ve got this French co-host and she’s a waitress I met down there and she’s going to take over the show for the next six months. And it’s really you. That’s cool. Right. And then you could act in challenge and then yeah, you act challenge and then you can see if you, what kind of guests you can still land.

1:35:24 And then maybe you’ll value more because the French waitress will be landing them. So yeah. Most influential person in your life? If you had to pick one.

1:35:37 It’s a throw between Joe and my therapist. I have a therapist I’ve seen since I was 11 and she’s just the most amazing woman ever. She’s so, oh, she’s incredible. She’s so spiritual. So like loving and she sees everyone with just no judgment, like with complete compassion. And she sees people like you’ve done terrible things, but she always sees the human in them. And like she’s, she’ll tell me stories. Like sometimes in, in, in coaching and therapy, she’ll use anecdotes of people. Like we were recently talking about, um, sexual assault and stuff like that.

1:36:17 Nothing I went through, but she was talking about, um, she was talking about incest and how to deal with that people. Um, sometimes it taints their relationship to sex because they make it that it’s nothing to do with love. It’s nothing to do with intimacy and that’s how they make it. Okay. And it’s just like, it isn’t, she sometimes that’s just an example. She, she’ll give me anecdotes of people she works with and I’m, or like pedophiles or something. And she heals them from seeing the person and loving them. I mean, so kind to them and not treating them as, as evil, like, because I, and I don’t believe that I think we have evil. And I think that sometimes that’s the thing that’s beaten into us or that’s, that’s nurtured in us. But she nurtures like the human compassion, the beautiful side of you, beautiful side of people. And yeah, just through, through working with her, I actually, I’ve never known her outside of therapy.

1:37:07 It’s always just who she is to me and stories. She tells me and how she’s helped me. She’ll never give me like the predictable answer, you know, like sometimes when I was, when I was going through a breakup a while ago and most people would be like, screw that person, cut them off. You don’t need them. Whereas she’s like, what else can you learn from them? You obviously still love them. So you need to be strong and confront them. So yeah, she, she’s probably the most major influence on me. Still see her. Like, I just, I think that is, that just shows you that I’ve seen her for over 15 years and she’s really like, mold me into who I am. What do you make of the kind of divisive situation in America right now and the president and the world. And it seems like a lot of fighting on Twitter and a lot of that and people getting vilified, whether it’s Trump or other people. What does your read on what’s happening and maybe what we should be focusing on or what we’re not focusing on? I think people are not listening to each other.

1:38:10 And I think it’s that thing again of like having no compassion for each other. And the fact that you’re a whole other person, you have views that offend me, but you have lived a life that has brought you to believe these things, like passionately, ardently, to the point where you’re arguing with me and you’re, you’re a family member who’s threatening to cut me off. So it’s like, okay, what about your life? Like, that’s what we need to do. Like see the person not, not be offended. That’s such an egoic thing to get offended, to be like, what you’re saying is really bothering me. It’s like, put yourself aside and be like, that thing from Kill a Mockingbird about all you don’t know a man till you walk with my own issues. I think everyone’s forgot, not everyone, but a lot of people that I see online has forgot that about this person has had experiences in their life. And maybe they were horrible, you know, awful ones.

1:39:02 Like I sometimes I do think about Donald Trump and actually somebody I know who like mentioned how they went to school with his, one of his children and how like there was like parents day or something. And he, he taught Trump apparently really mocked his son for not wearing a suit or something. And it made me think it was like, like, cause I don’t want to prove his children what they do. They hunt animals and they don’t care and all that. But it’s like, wow, the love you’ve been denied all the times that your dreams have been crushed by the person, by your parent, by the person who’s meant to love you enough. No wonder you’ve turned out who you are, you know, I think we need to like see each other and see each other’s pain and stop criticizing because that nobody listens to you when you criticize, like, especially with Donald Trump, people will take, say all these nasty things about him. And it’s like, okay, you may feel this, but why would he listen to you when you’re saying these things about him? Especially I get really annoyed because obviously, you know, body image and all that stuff is very sensitive topic to me.

1:40:03 And I understand I see so many people struggle with it. People are always saying mean things about his appearance. And like, he’s someone who obviously thinks about his parents, you know, he has his hair do and he has his look and everything. And people are always saying mean things about it. And I’m just like, what good does that do? That just makes him feel bad. That makes him feel like it proves to him that you’re the enemy and that you’re not kind and you’re not somebody, why would he listen to your political views? Because if he does, he’s gonna have to accept how you feel about him personally. So I just think, yeah, there’s people are failing to listen to each other and failing to be kind and acknowledge that you’re a whole other person with a whole overview. Same way in veganism, like I have to acknowledge, okay, you’re a hunter because you don’t have this relationship with animals because it was never cultivated in you. Why? Why, why, why? Why are you this way? And then I can talk to you. Yeah, it’s really, you know, mature perspective. I’m really glad you shared it because I agree. The people attacking him for his appearance are just as bad as him attacking someone else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For those same reasons that we don’t get it. He does it too, but that that’s not a way to teach him. It’s not a way to teach him how to listen to people and how to respect people by not respecting him. That’s

1:41:17 Like just lowering yourself. Yeah, it’s really, I don’t have any time for meanness. If I don’t always ask my guests a couple questions at the end, I’m going to ask you, if you could pick up the phone and make a phone call, I usually say to the 20 year old you, but I’m going to say to the 15 year old you and give that young woman a bit of advice. 15, I guess you just got the potter roll, still a lot to learn. What would you tell her if you could tell her kind of one thing?

1:41:47 I would tell her the sooner you go vegan, the sooner your skin will clear up. I would tell her, to be honest, I’m a very stubborn person. I don’t know that any of my advice be taken or heard. I really feel like that you have to, for me, I have to experience everything in order to know it. I’ve had that so many times that people warning me off types of boys or types of even movie projects and I’m like, no, do it anyway. I proved them right. I suppose I would tell her, you have so much work to do, sooner you stop doubting and questioning yourself and questioning whether you’re good enough to do them and whether you should do them or they have any worth, the sooner you will make yourself worthy of them. I think if I, especially on potter, I was so much of the time looking around being like, everyone is so much better than me. I shouldn’t be here. And I think if I’d just accepted whether you’re worth it or not, you’re here and you have this opportunity and you should just stop questioning. Stop questioning why you’re here and whether you should be because I’m repeating myself, but use that what you’ve been given as an opportunity to make you and the world better. The sooner you stop doing that, sooner you will be good enough for your dreams. On that same note, best advice you ever received could be from your parents or an acting coach, your therapist, Simon, something. Just best advice you ever received. And don’t worry, this is always the hardest question. Yeah.

1:43:31 Um, uh, I don’t know. Like, yeah, you mean like, not shall advice. Um, my acting teachers always have things, so much wisdom. Um, oh, I know. I know what the advice is from my acting teacher.

1:44:01 Um, last part of that question, the advice that you have for the 15 or 20 year old or 25 year old actors that are listening to us, they want to grow up one day and be a big star like you. Oh my God. Or just advice to an actor, you know, the advice that maybe you wish you would have got at 10 or 12 or 14 or 15. What do you say to them? Um, at first of all, I would say read.

1:44:50 That’s a good way to like cultivate yourself and learn about other people, get inside their minds, especially a lot of actors are shy, introverted, and that’s a good way to talk to meet other people. And I would also say, um, you’re not trying to please anyone. Other people can see who you are and you’re a total individual, so you’re not going to fit into every character. And I think sometimes we get, we got caught up in this mindset of, yeah, success is having so many roles that you’re just always busy. You’re always acting. And it’s like, I started to realize, oh no, I don’t want it. Like I’m reading for all these people who I don’t even connect to. They’re so not me and they’re so not who I want to play. Um, I like to play the outsider. I like to play the defiant weirdo and proud and like strange or just off beat. And I was like, I’m not that many of those people. And like, uh, the same way I’m quite picky about my friends. I mean picky, I don’t mean like discriminative, but like there’s only a few friends who mean that much to me. There are only a few characters. And I think that, that’s nice. That’s empowering to know. So don’t try and fit yourself into every character because you’re completely unique and that character is unique and just like friends, just like relationships. It’s really rare that you have that harmony of characters. So, um, yeah, I would just, I would say more work on yourself,

1:46:11 On being true to yourself. So it’s really corny, but there you go. Great advice. And again, great advice, not only for us, but for us, us mere mortals, uh, as humans. And I think that’s what I learned today was that just be in touch with my own emotions and kind of honor them. And I remember hearing this advice from like Arnold Schwarzenegger when he started taking acting classes and he was like, Oh, now I have to get in touch with all the emotions I shut down my male life. Yeah. And so you stick with it long enough. They’ll be sending you to chakra teachers, all these at the moment. I’ve, my acting work, I keep being sent to movement coaches, being like, you’re blocked here and here and here. And it’s stopping you from fully feeling everything. Cause you’re right. Like what he was saying that we store these emotions in our body and they just get stuck there. And that’s what we’re, yeah, we have to like release them.

1:47:00 I have a, I have a shaman teacher as well. God, I sound like such a pleatian. The shaman, the therapist, it’s all good. I’m very, very new age. Um, but I have a shaman and she’s always going on about shaking. Apparently you can shake all these things. I haven’t quite done it, but I definitely believe we don’t do enough movements and we should. No, definitely.

1:47:19 And I know you talked about that a little bit that you’re doing more movement and you always enjoy dance and that’s big. And I’ve been dancing a lot lately. Breakdance is my choice. Check out my Instagram feed. I got tote moves. Oh my God. Yeah. And, um, and I’ve had Edo Portall in here and Elliot Hulse who has an expression, the body is the mind. And I’m a firm believer and I’m doing yoga lately and emotions get released. And so, um, I’m a firm believer that the body is the mind. And the five rhythms. No, that’s something. So it’s not one where you like go to get good, be a cool dancer. It’s where you go to release all your emotions and there’s like five stages to it. And it’s like, I can’t remember the names of them. Well, Elliot Hulse has something called, he calls active meditation or dynamic meditation. Yeah.

1:48:04 And so I take like, yeah, I take all of our live groups for like 150, 200 people and we, we yell and scream. We jump around, we ground ourselves, we fall on the floor. Yeah. We do, we do, we dance on our own. Yeah. It’s this kind of five, you know, movement routine. Cool.

1:48:21 It’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It’s amazing to see everybody. And I, when I do it, like I’m in a suit and we’re in London and I’m telling people we’re about to do this and they’re like, uh, I don’t think so. But once we all start doing it, everybody is screaming and jumping around because everybody needs to do it. That sounds so amazing. Yeah. It’s awesome. I’ll send you some videos. So, um, anyways, thank you for coming. Thank you for really opening up and being so honest. I’m listening to me. Oh yeah. Oh my God. It’s such a hard thing to listen. Now that I’m doing the podcast, I’m just like, I’ll ask a question and I’m suddenly worrying about where the interview is going. You’re so good at that. So thank you for listening to me. Oh, you’re welcome. I call this, I feel like London Real is introducing to the world or reintroducing the art of listening, which is something we used to do in our hunter-gatherer clans around the, around the campfire. Yeah. We used to listen. And you said it so well earlier, it is submissive and most people aren’t used to that or aren’t used to being told that that’s okay.

1:49:18 But when you allow someone inside your head, which is what we both do when we broadcast and it goes in audio or whatever, literally you’re allowing someone else inside your head for an hour and a half and their viewpoints and it’s a beautiful thing. It’s very empathetic and it’s very open minded. And I think that’s how we can learn. So, um, that’s what we’re trying to do here. That’s awesome. And, uh, thank you for being so honest about everything. I really appreciate it.

1:49:39 I don’t know a damn thing about, I don’t know anything about Harry Potter and I think that’s good because it allowed me to kind of talk to you like a normal person, which you are. And she read them. Yeah. I will. I should have a 13 year old. You should read them.

1:49:51 I know she’s, she’s a fan. So that makes up for it. Um, good luck with the podcast. All I can say is what I say to all my podcasting students don’t stop. I don’t think you will, because if I had stopped London Real three years ago, we wouldn’t be here now. So whatever happens, don’t stop. Um, you’ve been very aggressive with one a week. It’s chick peeps. I hope everybody checks it out. Um, and if you can keep that up, like honestly, you won’t even recognize who you are in a year. That’s so cool. I love that. It’s a big story. That’s my favorite thing.

1:50:18 Um, you know, when people say that I think there’s like a Jay Z quote, like some said, Oh, you’ve changed. Like, of course I don’t work this hard to stay the same. I love that looking back every year. That’s why I love like new year birthdays to be like, I am really different to that person. Yeah. Cool. I love that. That’s a good intention.

1:50:34 That’s our vow at London Real is that 12 months from now, we don’t want to recognize ourselves. It’s been true the last two years. So that means we got to do a lot of changing to make it happen. So that’s what we’re always trying to do. Get a cat in here. Yeah. No, I like that. We’ll see about the cat. Um, as we say on London Real, it’s about the journey. I wish you the best on yours and super excited for your podcast.