Dustin Clean Denes - Chop Certified

Full transcript: Dustin Clean Denes on London Real

9:55 This is London Real, I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Mr. Dustin Clean-Dennis, who is a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt and master instructor with wins over Marcelo Garcia, Jeff Monson, and Mark Lehman. You are originally from Florida where you met Rodrigo Minataro Nogera, and in 99 you traveled down to Rio de Janeiro. You trained with him and the guys that I think would become the Brazilian top team, which was what, Sperry, Bustamante, and then you competed in the Brazilian Mundiales in 2000, which you won.

10:28 Brazil. Brazilian champion. Oh, the Brazilian champion, okay. You then later got your black belt in 01. After that you started competing in mixed martial arts in Japan, you traveled to the USA where you are a major part of the creation of the American top team.

10:42 You now travel the world teaching. You just hung out with Peter Irving up in Newcastle, who was a big part of this show while he was in London. So big shout out to him. You’re known as the king of the triangle. You are CHOP certified.

10:53 You are Dustin Denaise. Welcome to London Real. Happy to be here. It’s a pretty good intro, right? Excellent.

10:59 I think I’m getting known for those across the world now. We trained in December in New York City. I was recommended to train with you by Brad Waldron, who’s a big friend of ours, who was one of our first guests on London Real. And it was funny, I remember coming in and seeing you that day was on Broadway somewhere and I brought a buddy of mine. Paul Gee was his first jujitsu lesson.

11:22 But we came in and you know, you taught me some things. I’ve been training for six or eight years, Purple Belt, but you know, your technique is very specialized and I was learning a lot of new things about you and how you were training and I was wondering if you could just tell us a little bit about your journey through jiu-jitsu and kind of what you’re doing now and what should people know about Dustin Dennis? Number one, I’m all about excellence. I’m all about excellence.

11:48 Those are my guys, not the ones who are satisfied with good and a majority, and that goes for a majority of the population. I think they’re satisfied with good. I know they’re satisfied with good, but my stuff is for the guys who wanna go, they’re great and they wanna be better than great or they’re good and they want to be great, or they’re bottom and they want to be great. They don’t just want to be good. So my stuff is really geared for excellence.

12:15 Whether it be on the mats or off the mats, anything in life, it’s about first and foremost, kicking ass in life. Do you find that’s hard to find? Because when I think about, you know, jiu-jitsu or competition or, you know, MMA, it seems like it attracts the best or guys that are looking for the best. But is it? I mean, when you look at anything, anything that’s mainstream, My stuff’s very unique, it’s very different.

12:37 Anything that’s mainstream, once you’re getting into mainstream, that’s good. I mean, there’s great is outside of mainstream. The way I see it, if everybody else is doing it, shouldn’t be doing it, wanna be great. If everybody’s doing it, it’s good. Everybody’s in, it’s the new thing, it’s the glitter, it’s the, it’s happening.

12:59 Oh, yeah, it’s good, it’s good for them, but it’s not great. Greats and other animal. I don’t wanna talk about that. Can I tell you my story about Brazilian, the Brazilian top team? Sure, talk to me.

13:12 Talk to me, BTT, I’m all about that old school BTT. That is old school and it’s really funny. I went down to Brazil for my first time. I came to the UK 12 years ago in 02. I started training jiu-jitsu and then I took a trip down to Brazil and I remember I was watching Pride and I found the Brazilian top team website, right?

13:30 And I emailed some dude and I said, can I come train with you? and he was like, yeah, sure. And I rolled up at the, it was at the A-A Bay Bay, which is the Athletic Association Brazil, you know, right? Yeah, right by Enfema. And I walked in the training room, like after I flew from London and I walked in and on the mat were Rodrigo Nogera, Rogerio Nogera, Ricardo Arona, Anderson Silva had just started training with him.

13:54 Busta Manchi was there and they were all rolling on the mat. And I mean, like, I was just kind of, I didn’t know what to think, you know, because there’s people playing tennis outside. And you walk in and like some of the greats were there. And I got a chance to train with Bustamanchi and everyone. What year was this?

14:09 This is like 05, I think. 05, 05. Yeah, I was there in the beginning. Yeah, so I’ve been there for that. 2001, 2002, like that original, the original group when we separated from the course in Gracie.

14:20 Right, so tell me, you met Ruggiero in Florida and you went down there and trained with him. Rodrigo, Rodrigo, I met now, I met in Florida. His mother lives there and I met him there. he went there to check out United States for a first time. First time.

14:33 Yeah, I mean, for him, for him, he wanted to check it out and we started training a lot and it just happened. Hey, I wanna go to Brazil. Boom, like literally pull over side of the road, like, all right, block later, pullin’ over and buyin’ plane tickets. So, I think we were flying out on Tuesday and I said to him on the Friday prior, I was like, hey, do I need a visa? And he said, hey, clean, you may wanna look into that.

14:59 I think so, so I got it got on the fly Monday morning boom done like just you know money talks and bullshit walks Okay, what’s he they wrap that up quick was he fighting MMA at that point private He actually had he actually had this a great story. He actually had one he had one fight and The fight he did prior to us going to Brazil. He had the fight about a couple weeks prior to us going to Brazil and And, yeah, I mean, that was his first fight. That was his first fight.

15:29 I remember he fought for free, he took the fight for free. I mean, he’s a champion, he’s a real champion. I mean, he wasn’t… No, this was in Florida, actually. Florida, okay.

15:39 Florida, actually. They told him, they said, look, you know, I can’t pay to anything, we’ll give you the shorts for free. The shorts, as in, like, somebody’s marketing, he’s doing somebody’s marketing. But you’re gonna get a fight. You’re gonna get a fight, it’s gonna be professional.

15:53 And that was that. a guy who was, guy had 13, 12, 13, 14 fights, pro, tough guy, and Rodrigo’s coming fresh from Gui, Gui, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, so it was definitely an eye-opener, it was a shot of espresso for him. He got the job done, he got the job done in Rodrigo Minotaro fashion, I mean he crucified the guy, but it’s pretty much unheard of in MMA, it’s a real high-level jiu-jitsu move, He crucified the guy and and that was that had he but he got in a fight He was in a fight. He was in a fight. He was in a fight. Okay, it was no this guy was no pushover It was a fight had had had Riggle been trained stand up before that or was he just a little bit He kind of you know, it was more toying with stand up Okay, you know toying and toying with stand up and having courage just courage itself. So that was that was really his his technique at that time on the feet.

16:53 It was courage, backed up with hitting some pads, but his main thing was jiu-jitsu. So hey, but getting in there, it’s half the battle. Just stepping up and stepping up is half the battle. So Hijurigo was always that type of guy. He was always stepping up, like real inspiration.

17:11 I remember me and Hijurio, territory that for us, it was like, yeah, we’re always gaming for big territory, But when it’s really big territory, oh, Rodrigo wants to be the first to put his foot in and he’d get his foot in there and then it’s like, all right, now we’re clear. Let’s go. And this is, I mean, super, super courageous, super, you know, never hesitate. He was always, yeah, he was always game. He was always game for a challenge.

17:37 Like, that day, it didn’t matter who they were gonna put in there with him. He was gonna show up, he was on a mission. Like, he’s showing up and he’s gonna win. That’s task at hand. But MMA was reasonably big in Brazil at the time, but no one in the States has seen that as the enemy.

17:51 Yeah, MMA was big in Brazil. It was. They had the valetudo, they had the no rules. But it was starting to catch on in the States. Starting to catch on in the States, not where it was mainstream.

18:02 But obviously, it was a niche crowd. But it was catching on. I mean, there were fights. There were places to fight. So there was opportunity.

18:10 What did you learn when you went down to Brazil and trained with those guys? What was different about that training than the training you were getting to Florida? Then, you know, I had great, great instructors. I have a great, great, great background in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I was fortunate to have great instructors where I started in Miami.

18:26 And I have, you know, I wrestled. I wrestled for 10 years before I ever touched jiu-jitsu. So. People don’t know that about you. You wrestled for a long time.

18:34 Oh yeah, I mean, since I was eight years old, you know, when I was 11, 12 years old is when I started making my own personal sacrifice, you know, going out and running every morning to earn my cereal. And no one’s pushing me out the door to do it. So it was like, that was, yeah, I come from a pretty rough background of, rough, no, but wrestling, like that determination, sacrifice, that leadership, being around people who just getting after gold. Getting after gold makes sacrifice, and I’m learning this, I’m starting to use it when I’m 11 years old, 12 years old, and holding myself to it.

19:06 So it was pretty hardcore. I mean, if you look back where everybody else in the lunchroom, you know, having fun in the lunchroom, just laughing and we’re out in the field running. So that’s my background. We weren’t in the lunch room laughing. We were out in the field running, cutting weight, doing something to kick somebody’s ass. And if we got our ass kicked, we’re gaming to get revenge.

19:30 And no one was pushing you to do that. That was pushing you? No, I mean, obviously I had a lot of great coaches, a lot of great training partners, but that was… Yeah, I mean, that was when you get into the sacrifice element, it’s It’s like if you want to be great, and this goes back to where I started, if you want to be great, if you want to be excellent, you know, if there’s a hundred guys in the bracket, one of them’s getting gold. You know, there’s only one guy getting gold, and the guy who, you know, sure, somebody’s going to get a silver and a bronze, but who cares?

20:00 That doesn’t count. Gold counts. You know, when it counts for the guys who do lose, you know, how many do come back? The guys who step up and come back and want revenge and keep getting after gold, You know, those guys are stepping up, those guys are champions too. You know, because they’re gonna keep getting after it, they’re gonna get it.

20:19 But that can’t be said for a majority of the population. A majority of the population, they just fold or they’re just glad to be there. Do you think sacrifice is a key element? Do you think if everyone listening right now took a look at their life, they need to start sacrificing things in order to gain things? Huge, there’s more to it than that, but that’s one major player.

20:37 Start thinking things to cut out. Yeah, you gotta hold yourself to a personal sacrifice. You know, a lot of people have their to-do list. I’m big on a not-to-do list. All right.

20:46 Such as what? Make a list like what not, you know, what are you wasting time on? Bad habits, bad friends. Yeah, bad habits, you know, whether it be bad habits, bad, you know, bad friends, people, you know, something that you don’t need to be doing. You do it because it’s become routine or you do it because you want to do it, but it doesn’t need to.

21:05 You’re not maximizing your productivity, you know, and that’s going back to the excellence. Not everybody, you know, it’s not for everybody. The gold is not for everybody. They make one of them. Right.

21:16 You know, it’s for the champions. It’s for the ones who are willing to make sacrifice. So I think that’s huge. For the ones who want excellence, I’m big on that sacrifice. I, like, guys see my championships and they say, oh, you know, Dustin, you beat all these great guys.

21:32 And they just, I mean, the list goes on and on, these guys I’ve taken out. And I owe it to sacrifice. And I tell these guys, they say, well, you went to Brazil and you did it there. I won those matches when I was 12 years old. And continued into my teenage years, just making sacrifice.

21:51 Other kids are out and having fun. And it’s two in the morning, I’m running around my city with a hoodie on. It’s the middle of the night. So doing stuff like that, that’s what I owe it to. But living my life like that, it’s not fun.

22:07 You know and I could tell you I was telling I was telling some students the other day like me me at my best like The championships the gold it wasn’t it was it was a very lonely time in my life Because for me that’s what it took but I have zero regrets Is it worth it cuz I got what I wanted it was worth every every moment every time I was so far away from home running and I was oh I knew I had to run back and it tastes so bad you get to the point where it’s like beyond boredom It’s just it tastes it tastes like shit, but you know somewhere. It’s gonna pay off. This is the hard work when yeah Yeah, this is the hard work You just don’t don’t don’t don’t let up and it’s like sure enough sure enough It came back around full force and when you get that metal is it is is everything as good as you would expect it With the metal it do you feel like the next day like I don’t know what to do with myself now for the next sacrifice Are there any kind of mixed feelings when you get that metal because everyone’s had that experience no, and I have a great answer for this you know I’m a person that you know once I got it yeah I take a deep breath and I’m like yeah right on but I’m the type of person I’m always striving I’m always I’m always striving for more so even when I get that medal it’s like I want more what’s next you know what I mean there’s something like right right right at that moment I’m planning what’s next because I’m just

23:28 I’m just striving for more I never stop I’m never you know I’m just always gaming for more there’s there’s always like if I’m great I want to be better than great if I’m excellent I want better than excellent so and that’s it’s like the result just always gaming for more we’ve had some championship guys in here we had a Dorian Yates which was a six-time mr. Olympia and and he said when he won he’s like I didn’t celebrate Brian he’s like I expected to win I should of one and I find like the great guys compete with themselves like the great guys don’t they win and then they have find a new challenge for themselves yeah and then those are the guys that kind of keep going I find yeah and a lot of guys like you mentioned in the beginning they’ll bring up oh you know Dustin you beat you so submission victory over Marcelo Garcia and I start knocking off names like this and you know I’ll tell him about it but those Victor I don’t get excited about those I knew I was gonna beat that guy I knew I was going to beat those guys. I knew that was my day so I don’t get as excited where it’s like you know when I got into MMA and it was more like hey you know if you make a mistake there the guy will take your life. You know if you make a mistake guy will break your arm. You make a mistake the guy will knock you out and you may not come back the same. You know I’ve seen so many guys I got so many great training partners they just they’ve been hit and they just never

24:49 They’re still in the game, but they’re not, they’re not the same. So with MMA, the stakes got really high. Oh, it changed the game. I’ll tell you, you know, those are stories, those stories I get excited about. Now we’re talking about fear.

25:01 I mean, I’m watching guys on video. I’m a great jiu-jitsu expert, but I’m watching guys on film that I’m going to fight. They’re not jiu-jitsu experts, but yeah, 90% of the fight’s going to end up on the floor, but 100% are going to start on the feet. And these, I’m watching these guys just knock guys out, brutally merciless. You know, if they see the window and if they got to take a life to get their victory, these guys aren’t going to hesitate.

25:25 Okay. So it’s like, you know, it just up the stakes and I was, and me striving, I’m always game for that. But at the same time, it was, yeah, I mean the fear factor gets involved and then it, you know, the up the stakes, those, I see, you see, you see how now I’m talking about I’m getting excited. Now I get excited. other matches you know yeah they’re superstars and and but but I you know you know a lot of the world looks at these guys oh they’re superstars in this you know clean you got that guy I just don’t get excited like Marcelo Garcia I knew I was gonna beat that guy and you just think because it’s jiu-jitsu the stakes are just a little bit lower because you’re not talking about knock out she’s not talking about your life on the line yeah exactly I mean yeah sure we’re gonna do joint locks there’s jokes but it’s when the punches get in you know, the game changes and I learned that from my roots and I come from the Carlson Gracie and and BTT it was you know we’re not in there doing mainstream you know happy like me and when I say mainstream like mainstream isn’t now what it’s come to you see a lot of happy-go-lucky jujitsu okay like we’re in it to win it right if for us it was like killer be killed and we’re in it to win it that that was our style and it was that the kind of the Carlson Gracie ethos of just go for the throw.

26:40 You get to a certain point and you’re winning championships. It’s like a given that you’re going to transition and you’re going to go hold the flag of jiu jitsu and defend it, defend the flag of jiu jitsu against other martial arts. I’m really proud of my roots, I love that because I didn’t get into jiu jitsu for happy go lucky training, the gi patty cake, you go, I go, look at it, get in there and kick ass and take over. That’s just my style and that’s, you know, a lot come from Res Sona, a lot from the Carlson Gracie. And BTT, we’re in it to win it. In it to win it number one. And that’s the way all those guys were. That was the whole mentality. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that’s, you know, you look at decades most successful team in jiu-jitsu history was Carlson Gracie. And that was number one. And there was no coincidence that four or five guys from the Brazilian top team were in pride. I mean, that’s a lot of guys in pride.

27:33 Yeah, I mean, yeah, we had a slew of guys in pride. I mean, when we started BTT is when the rivalry began with Shootbox. Shootbox was starting in Kurachiba, and that’s when it began, you know? That’s when it began. And the rivalry, you know, competition’s great.

27:48 Because we stepped up, they stepped up. We all got better. Right. So you have to, you know? You step up or you’re going to finish on the bad end of the deal in pain.

27:59 So it was like, yeah. So MMA changed the game, definitely. But that was like a pride issue, like you said, like Rodrigo just stepped up that day with the match. It was just an evolution of what you were training with Jiu-Jitsu to just step up and represent. Yeah, he knew it.

28:12 Yeah, yeah, he knew it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And he wanted that, you know. He knew what he wanted.

28:17 Okay. And that goes back to like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, he, he never, he always had the big goal in sight. He never lost track of the big goal. You know, even in the championships, you know, he’s, it’s not a perfect world. He just wins wins wins, you know, he lost two on, you know, on route to being to be in his best But it’s the people who fail forward, you know Which is not a majority of the population you fail you get up you keep going forward you keep going forward you keep going forward and Boom breakthrough big things happen. Okay, but how much of the population folds they fall in their face and they fold That’s something you learned from him. Was that the whole team? No that that I just got I got from wrestling You know it hit me in the learning curve in wrestling like how many guys guys see my big matches They’re like, oh you beat this guy, this guy, this guy and they’re just knocking off names and I’m like, I had, I lost so many times when, when nobody saw to guys that nobody knew.

29:12 But the difference is I kept getting up and I kept going forward with that, that I never lost track of the big goal. The short term failures were short term failures. I never lost track of the big goal. I never lost sight of the big goal. I want to win something big.

29:25 I want to beat some great guys. And I stuck to, and I stuck to task at hand. And for Rodrigo, it was like when he was MMA, task at hand, task at hand, task at hand. He never lost sight of that. Why does he fight?

29:38 Like does he fight for his pride, for his own self? Or he seems like such a calm guy and a quiet guy. He doesn’t seem like a lot of other fighters in pride at the time that were winning. And he just seems like he fights for a different kind of reason, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day, only he has the answer to that.

29:56 And maybe he can explain it, maybe he can’t, but I mean Rodrigo just yeah, he loves it. It’s not it’s I Couldn’t tell you how I couldn’t tell you one thing I just couldn’t pinpoint one thing because he’s still fighting today And it’s it’s I mean you can’t really pick out another fighter that’s been fighting at the top level for so long Yeah, it’s pretty much him. We’ve been fighting from pride back then so you think you just who’s gone a bit soft That’d be a way When you look at the mainstream, yeah, it’s become very, very happy-go-lucky.

30:31 You’ve had that stuff around, and it’s thought to say, hey, whatever makes people happy. If one person likes it for whatever they love it for, I take my hat off like, I’m glad jujitsu does something great for them. I really do, and I’m glad because the mainstream, the sport grows, but for a lot of the jujitsu Jujitsu people that go out, you know, and I see a lot of this with the mainstream, they think because they do jujitsu, they’re legitimately, they’re capable of defending themselves in a real fight or really using it, and there’s a big difference in a real fight.

31:09 You know, I’m a firm believer, 95% of the mainstream jujitsu population, the jujitsu world out there today, they would get their ass kicked in a real fight, you know, and And this including like superstar black belt champions in sport jujitsu, fighting, it changes the game. It changes a different animal, you know, and I’m not talking about they need to even go up against someone with serious skill, just someone who’s got courage, brass balls, and it’s not rocket science to throw a punch, you know, just someone who’s coming and it’s a different animal. Okay.

31:47 It’s a different animal. say I want to reemphasize that, you know, all this stuff, you know, the mainstream obviously helps it grow. It comes with the mainstream, it’s growth. Great, you know, but at the same time, it’s, you know, you got different styles, my style, strong style, I’m looking to come in, kick ass, take no prisoners. I have fun, I love jiu-jitsu, but fun for me, it rides so far in the backseat. I’m in it to win it. That’s my style. I’m in there, killer be killed. I’m not in They’re happy-go-lucky.

32:18 I want to take heads off. And that’s the way you train your students. When they roll, they’re willing to kill. Yeah. Yeah.

32:24 I want them… You don’t want quiet, relaxed rolling. No. My guys got one speed. And everybody in the room knows that.

32:29 You know, when we drill, we drill, but when it’s go time, it’s go time because that’s it. That’s just the way I train my guys. And I want them, I like them to take that into life because if you go out into life with your hands down and your chin high, you’re going to get knocked out. Life’s going to kick your ass. And you know, I like to relate all my stuff and compare it to life because that’s, life is tough.

32:52 Let’s talk about when you go around the world. I mean, you’ve been over here, I guess you probably met, you know, a hundred students or something in your past week here. I mean, when you walk in the room, hundreds, hundreds, hundreds, when you walk in the room and you see people, do you know right away what’s wrong? I mean, can you, can you break people down in a few minutes and say, okay, this is what we got to work on. Or this guy’s having a confidence issue or he’s having a this issue or that issue.

33:12 Yeah. I mean, yeah, pretty, pretty quickly. I find out a lot in a short time, you know, I mean, yeah. Sometimes it’s a bigger group, so it’s, I get into, I mean, I get around the room, so everybody who knows my style, they know I get around the room, I get everybody’s name. There could be a hundred guys in there, I’ll have everybody’s name within the half hour.

33:34 And what’s the biggest? How am I gonna get the best out of a guy if I don’t know his name? Well, and how do you get the best out of people? Just dig it out, I dig it out, I demand it, I demand it. Can you dig something out of everyone or are some people just not gonna get a mesh with clean?

33:48 You know, and this goes back to what we were talking about before with what I talked about a lot with the excellence and the good. You know, there’s a lot of people, they don’t wanna dug out. They’re just, they’re happy, they’re glad to be there. They’re glad to be there. And that’s great for them.

34:05 If that’s the way they want it, great. But my guys, my guys want more, my guys are striving. My guys, they’ve got that, they always want more. They got it great, oh, we got it great now, we want it better. Those are just my guys.

34:29 And I can create that, you know, I can create that. And some people catch on, some people don’t. It’s not for everybody. You know, I’m not looking, like my style, when I say strong style, I’m in there, looking I’m in it to win it one guy gets you know if there’s a hundred in the bracket one guy gets the gold how many how many are coming back how many of the ninety-nine are coming back fighting again and again and again and again not many so it’s a real niche group are you there to train jiu-jitsu or are you really there to teach these people about life you know my main thing is I want to I want to help and inspire these people you know if I can inspire these people.

35:10 That’s first and foremost, I want to help and inspire people to be the best they can be. If somebody leaves my seminar and they’re just a little better because of it, which ultimately the little details make a big difference. It can have an effect on them. That’s what I want. That’s what I want.

35:34 As you get older. Then I got my guys who come back to me and I say my guys, like my core guys, they live just striving on a catapult effect. They just want more, more, more, more, more. They’re always gaming for more, and that’s like me, but you know, my number one, first and foremost, is helping inspire people. They can learn jiu-jitsu all around the world.

35:58 I could deliver them champion jiu-jitsu and inspire them. I’ll get them fired up and get their strategy set. Cause they’ll get fired up, but I’m big on strategy too. I mean, that’s, I’m huge on strategy. How to win matches.

36:11 Yeah, I mean, get a plan. Gotta have a plan. You gotta have a plan. You gotta construct, you gotta build something in the direction of how you’re gonna get what you want. How you’re gonna get to where you wanna be.

36:23 Strategy’s huge. If you could be motivated, someone could be fired up. They could be on their couch, you know, sitting down, just get super fired up. Maybe they’re listening to their music or just getting their mindset and they’re super fired up. If they don’t have a strategy, in the end of the day they’re gonna be sitting in the same place fired up.

36:42 Tired. Right. Didn’t go anywhere. So strategy’s huge. Is Jiu Jitsu the goal of what you do or is it ultimately just a tool?

36:50 Help and inspire. Jiu Jitsu’s one way for me to deliver that excellence, that champion mindset, that get out there and kick ass. kick ass in life, it’s my way to deliver. It’s my choice of delivery. Has that?

37:06 It’s jiu-jitsu and then obviously if I’m dealing with a corporation, I’m in my other key. I’m in my shoes, I’m in my sports coat, and I’m delivering to them the same way I’m delivering to the jiu-jitsu. How similar are they? It’s step up and kick ass. Get the term and step up and kick ass.

37:24 Get a plan, get a strategy. Put things in place, get your sacrifice. You gotta set a sacrifice, huge. Get your team, your team, your team. Nobody gets anywhere alone.

37:35 I look back, I owe my greatest, greatest championships. I mean, I had great coaches. I had great training partners. I needed somebody to give me a hard time at six in the morning when I show up to the gym, my coaches, tell me what to do, you know, to get me in the direction, hey, we gotta do this, we gotta do this, we gotta do this. I need those guys.

37:55 I need guys showing up that I could do it with. So it’s like without them, I mean, the team works huge. It’s huge, and that’s, you know, ultimately if you define leadership, that’s the team. It’s funny how in MMA the team’s kinda disappeared. We talk about the Shootbox days, Brazilian top team days, but like, I don’t know, if I name the top teams and the top guys in the UFC right now, okay, the team, I don’t remember, but the team’s kinda secondary.

38:19 I mean, it usually is the individual gets all the notoriety, but there is a team behind them. Oh yeah, yeah, sure, sure. But since it’s- Oh, yeah. Yeah. And for you, that was Brazilian top team in Brazil and back to America.

38:33 Yeah, I was in the course in Gracie, and then I was in BTT, then I was in American top team, so. How was MMA for you? And if your MMA career had come, say, eight years later, you know, and when you might have been, like, in the Ultimate Fighter House or some other craziness, how would that have changed things? You know, I wouldn’t change, I wouldn’t change what I, I never got into fighting for. I see a lot of guys fighting now, you know, obviously they wanna make a living.

39:00 And for me, it was I love jiu-jitsu. And this is, you know, this really gets the heart of my jiu-jitsu. I always wanted to fight. And for me, it was always about jiu-jitsu. At my best, especially in fighting, it was always about jiu-jitsu.

39:15 It was always about jiu-jitsu in general. Even when I was in Brazil, it was about jiu-jitsu. It wasn’t about I wanna make money. Oh, I got paid. I got paid well.

39:24 I was flying, I was flying in Learjets. All the time I was flying on my fights in Learjets. The promotions were flying in? Yeah, well no, they weren’t flying, I just had my sponsors, I had my team. I was in a Learjet.

39:38 I don’t know many guys that fly to this day in a Learjet to their fights. And get out after the fight and go eat some food and go to the airport and tell the captain, hey, hey, let’s go, we’re ready. Those are some good sponsors. We’re telling him where we’re ready to go. So, I mean, I was just running with the big dogs, that’s what I do.

39:56 I’m with that excellence team, so I’m with those, running with the big dogs, always. So I was flying in Learjets, it was great times, I have great memories, great memories, and it was all about jiu-jitsu, and then in the end, I found myself fighting for money. Money became number one, and I lost a passion. For me, and this is gonna bring back, going to my history, I wanted to fight one time. I wanted to fight one time just to prove it, to defend my flag of, you know, my roots, my Carlson Gracie, BTT, defend the flag of Jiu-Jitsu.

40:33 And what happened was the fight was a draw. It was in Japan, it was my MMA debut, huge fight. I fought a guy who was a veteran season killer. I mean, this guy was supposed to be a piece of fish food for this guy. And I gave him a fight, it was a draw.

40:48 And I remember after the fight I was lost in translation. because I was thinking, I’m like, what the hell is this? A draw. Right, only in Japan. You know, literally, like, what the hell is this?

41:01 I never experienced, like, I’m a winner, I win. I win, I win, and at that point, like, in Brazil, I didn’t lose, I didn’t lose, and if I did, it was like, yeah, it could’ve went either way. It was, I didn’t, I was just at a point where I was winning, winning, winning. So when they raised both their arms, something, right, felt awkward. Like, it was unfinished business.

41:22 So I went back in to clean the business up, 18 more fights. And then I said, I found myself fighting for money. And I just said, you know what? I got to be here because I love it. And that’s when I started getting into teaching and helping the guys.

41:37 And I was past the point, me and my best, I was very selfish as a part of my, everybody’s got their own equation. For me, I was very selfish. I had to isolate myself from the world. And I think I mentioned before, it was a very lonely time for me. but I have no regret, it got the gold, it got what I wanted, it got the mission accomplished.

41:58 But now it’s not about me, it’s about the students. One, and I tell my guys all the time, and they know it, they know the way I teach. It’s 110% about them, it’s not about me. How do you? I cross the pond, I travel the world, I travel the world for these guys to help and inspire these guys.

42:14 It’s not about me. How do you make that transition? Because to be a great fighter, you have to be almost 110% selfish. And then to evolve after that, you have to be grateful, you have to be about your students, you have to live through them. Making that transition is a tough time for most people, right?

42:31 Yeah, I mean, probably. For me, it just came natural. Like, I got my gold, I beat the best guys. Guys, oh, clean, you’re gonna do it again. I beat the best guys.

42:42 I don’t need to do it five times since these guys keep going back to win the same championship that they won over. I just don’t need to do that. I can spend my time for me productivity is helping these helping these other guys now. It’s about giving back It’s not about me. It’s about them So you train guys all around the world in jiu-jitsu you do other motivational stuff you train people in character Yeah, you say motivational. I say strategy strategy of the world cause it motivation But it’s like I say if you you can be fired up, but if you don’t have a strategy you’re going nowhere So I’ll do strategy work with the corporations. I love that so I’m going in the direction of doing more of that It’s it’s it’s great. I mean, it’s really it’s no different than getting in there and winning championships, right?

43:25 It’s it’s the same thing to step up get a plan and kick ass make things happen make sacrifice and Get your team together put your team together Talk to me about something that’s hard to fight and that’s cancer pancreatic cancer. You had some fights with that What was that all about and how do you fight something? That’s not right in front of your face like an opponent? Pancreatic cancer Was yeah, it was it was it was definitely an eye opener. It’s definitely a lot an eye opener You know, most people die in short time because that’s got a very high. Oh, yeah. I mean most are in short time I was very lucky. I was very very fortunate very lucky. Doctor told me he said first thing said was before even told me He said you’re lucky kid he said if you had I had what they called a neuro endocrine tumor and and if it’s neuro-exocrine, you’re done.

44:17 Neuro-endocrine is distinct, it was collecting insulin and I said, we’re gonna go in there, get it out of there, and life goes on. When was this? Uh, 2000, 2010. Okay, so it was after you stopped fighting professionally and all that stuff. Oh yeah, it was after fighting.

44:36 And did you feel the symptoms coming on or was it like a normal checkup? No, it was stomach ache. Okay. And did that give you any kind of perspective when you get told that you got something like that? Mmm Yeah, you put me in gear like kick my ass kick kick me myself in the ass You know if anything, you know for what it’s worth a blessing in disguise like getting gear keep you know Getting that getting that champion mindset Put the pedal to the metal and make things happen make them happen faster because time You know time is something we never get back Time is something we never get back, so I’m big, I’m huge into productivity these days, it really got my ass in gear.

45:17 Turn the cameras on, you gotta turn the cameras on now, don’t wait five years. There may not be, I may not be here in five years to turn the cameras on. Get these things fired up, hand it to my guy in the car. I remember one of my students, Bone saw his nickname, tough kid, I threw him the camera one day, just turned this thing on, let’s see what happens. Boom, and that was, you know, I started firing off the champion mindset decades of what I learned, I put together and I started firing it off to the world.

45:46 It’s tough, even as the most motivated guy and with all the specific goals, the natural human tendency is to kind of coast for a bit, right? So then when you get a diagnosis like that, you’re like, Jesus Christ, I really don’t have a lot of time here. And you’ve got to really get back even harder at it, right? Yeah, I mean, it hits you. I mean, you could take it, the way I see it like when stuff like that, adversity like that challenges in life, You know, there’s three directions people can go with it.

46:12 A majority just keep, I would say a great majority keep living life as they were. They just keep doing what they were doing. There’s a lot who, oh, they go down a notch, a big notch. So that becomes their excuse for everything, their entire life, you know, oh well, do you wanna, oh no, you know, they feel sorry for themselves. Oh, best thing my wrestling coach taught me, Don’t stop feeling sorry for yourself.

46:40 That was huge when we, I mean, 12 years old, running around the field. Don’t feel sorry for yourselves. Like, you get tough, deal with it and get tough. It was tough times, great memories. But add whatever the case, and then you’ve got that small percentage, that very small percentage, you catapult.

46:58 They just take it, they change the game for the better, and they just create a catapult effect. Nick, that’s a conscious decision everyone can make when they’re hit with things like that. I mean, you must see that with your students or the people that you advise where you’re like, no, no, no, don’t take this as a take a notch down, use it, you know, use that and try to take it even higher. I’m big in general, everything. Like if you wanna do your, if you wanna go, whether it’s jujitsu, I’m gonna give the drills to the guys.

47:27 You know, if somebody’s gonna go do their technique and their drills and their training, whatever they’re gonna do with the gym. And then I’m gonna compare this to, You take your equivalent, your person who’s a corporate, high level, exec, they’re gonna take their stuff to the, they’re gonna take their stuff to the office. How are you gonna do your work? Are you gonna do it good or are you gonna do it great? It’s a choice.

47:56 It’s a choice. You choose. Nobody chooses for you. If you wanna go to the gym and you wanna be good or you wanna be great, the choice is yours. And I really, I emphasize that to my guys.

48:10 Choose to be great, because you can be. Why be good, good is not good enough. That’s just the way I see it, good is not good enough. It’s 2014, good is average, good is not good enough. Make it great.

48:27 You know, no surprise, I think some of your peers over the years have different opinions on you. somebody told me the current ADCC champion, Cyborg at Brew, said that quote, you were nasty to people off the mats as well as on the mats, and I was wondering if that’s still the case, or was that a young man evolving in that competitive nature, or is that Dustin? Is that Dustin taking care of business? That was old clean. That was old clean.

48:52 That’s old clean. When was this? That is old clean. That is just, that’s when it was all about me. That’s you know, it’s now it’s the opposite and the guys know that it’s not it’s it’s not it’s not about me It’s all about the other guys. This is a long time ago with just me coming from the Coming from my roots. I’m in it to win it right?

49:15 I mean and and I and I never lose the task at hand the task at hand is gold and winning gold and now it’s oh Change the game completely and all the guys around me my mentors that they all see it They all know it the total opposite end. Oh Total other end of the spectrum, but this is probably a little bit about your complaint about jujitsu I mean, do you think when people go to jujitsu tournaments? Maybe there is maybe they do need to amp their intensity up a notch Maybe you need to go in there for the kill and not be having making friends on the side I mean, is it partly that or not? And like I say like in the end of the day like if it makes them happy great That’s why I don’t see it as I see it as reality. I don’t see it as complaining I see I see what I see with my own eyes, you know, they can keep doing their thing I could they keep doing their thing. It’s not it’s not my thing They can play happy-go-lucky over there and play patty cake and jump rope over there And I’m gonna be over here ripping heads off with my guys Doesn’t you know, I’m not I’m not I just see it because it’s you know, it’s jujitsu So you see the jujitsu world, but I don’t I don’t look in and stare at it. I don’t waste my time there I spend more time Ripping heads off fair enough and as it grows bigger It’s it’s an only natural that this board’s gonna be diluted to a certain extent and even if you can’t have killers when it grows

50:28 No, I’ve got guys I’ve got guys a lot of a lot of a lot of I’ve got a lot of great students who are just They’re there. They want to train they they they want to be great for the time they come in they have one hour Exactly to train with me. These guys are high level. These guys are surgeons attorneys But they take what I what I give in the lesson and they apply that in the in the courtroom They take what I apply in the rest and they bring it the surgery and they step up and they save lives They do what they have to do to make it great to be great at what they do not just to be good So they you know, those are the guys who were chopped certified chopped certified a business chopped certified And they’re just they’re always striving for more and just the way I teach the wood that what I instill was always striving for more in that greatness and excellence, they take that into their life.

51:20 Let’s talk about some of your terms. 110% greatness, CHOP certified, what is CHOP? And what’s CHOP certified? I mean CHOP certified’s always striving to excellence. What did CHOP come from?

51:30 CHOP is, me and a great friend of mine, we created in Japan and say jiu-jitsu CHOP. You have karate CHOP, so we took jiu-jitsu CHOP and then, say I gotta take this thing to a whole nother level, like jiu-jitsu CHOP is not, It’s just not enough. Let’s certify this thing. Certify it. Certify it, so that’s where it came from.

51:53 It’s all about excellence and that greatness, and that’s why I started with that, because those are my guys, you know, and I just, I wanna help and inspire people. If I could help someone, if they, maybe they don’t wanna, maybe they’re not my guy, but I’ll, get in there, give me my shot and I will inspire them. I will help them be better than they were when they came in the room. And if you describe someone that is CHOP certified, what does that guy or girl look like?

52:20 And what do you want them to look like to become CHOP certified? What are the kind of attributes of that? A lot of my guys who are CHOP certified, they’re just regular people. A lot of them are regular people, but they don’t show it off. They don’t show it off.

52:36 They’re striving. They’ve got gold medals. They’ve got Lear jets. They’re kicking ass in business, beautiful families. They’re kicking ass in life.

52:44 They just, they don’t show it off. They keep it to them, it’s for them. It’s for us. You know, it’s not, I’m not in it to show it off. Fair enough.

52:54 The image. Tell me about you and your routine. Like, do you have a standard thing you do every day? You know, do you wake up early? Do you wake up late?

53:02 You know, is there a certain, is there a certain routine that keeps you you and keeps your sanity, especially when you’re traveling all over the world? I just keep doing what I’m doing. I’m just keep going forward. Do you train every day? Do you meditate?

53:17 No, I don’t have patience for meditation. It’s meditation, yoga. I just, maybe from a wrestling background, I come, you know, like wrestling’s got different, wrestling has different styles. You’ve got your real aggressive, you’ve got your passive, who are just looking to get away with the victory, do what they can to get away with the victory. I come from a very aggressive wrestling background, pretty much take over.

53:42 We’re looking for, we’re creating a one-way deal. It’s not, hey, I go, you go. It’s I go, I go, I go. I’m looking to take. You give it to me, I take it.

53:50 You don’t give it to me, I take it. That’s the style, so it’s like, I never had the patience for yoga or meditation. I just wanna get in there and skin them alive. You know, wrestling’s interesting. It’s something that’s talked about a lot, especially in the UFC.

54:07 A lot of guys say wrestling is the best base to have, and because of those workouts that they do, And I’ve seen the workouts in college. I wrestled one year in high school and I didn’t even know what hit me at the time. And we weren’t even a top wrestling school in San Diego, but like, I mean, it transformed my body when I was like 16 years old. I was a nerdy kid and they had us doing so much work that I understood what was going on there. And I was wondering, what is it about wrestling that teaches people things?

54:32 Because I know if you look at like Cormier when he’s wrestling now at AKA, they’re trying to not only win, they’re trying to break the other guy’s will at the same time. It’s like, who’s gonna break first? The other guy’s gonna break first. I’m not gonna break first. Is that what you were taught with wrestling?

54:49 Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, similar I could say. You know, we would push, we would just keep pushing. We would just, we just spent our life breaking barriers down like, and pushing our body beyond, beyond what I ever imagined. I even, when I was 11, 12 years old, I remember it’d be raining out. We’re supposed to go run in the fields and our coach would take us in the hallway and just put us to do, oh, just madman exercises.

55:15 Like, man, I’m looking back and I’m realizing, like, I’m 37 now, I’m looking back thinking, man, that was hardcore, right on. I wouldn’t have it any other way. So that’s just my, you know, I never liked wrestling. I could say that. I like winning.

55:34 That’s what I liked. You know, jiu-jitsu, yeah, I love jiu-jitsu, but I love winning more. Do you miss that competition? I’m in it to win it. No.

55:44 No, because there’s other ways I win in life. Every day life’s about little victories. Little victories, little victories, little victories, big victories. So it’s, you know, I’m always winning. I’m always gaming to win just in different, from different angles.

56:01 Where are you based and would you ever live here in the U.K.? I don’t know. You never know what tomorrow brings. I was in Brazil most of the last year, this year I’ve been more back in Florida where I was born and raised and I, you know, always on the go. So it’s, I like it here a lot, UK is beautiful and incredible people, incredible times.

56:25 You know the world is a beautiful place, there’s so many great spots. So I’m very fortunate to be able to see all these places and meet all these great people. Be really surrounded by great people, champions in life. What’s your favorite part of Rio and what’s the part of Rio that you hate the most? I mean Rio is Rio, I love Rio, anywhere I’m on the beach, I mean I have great memories whether it’s now, I’m at the beach now, I can be in Baja, I can be in Apuador, I can be in Leblon, I can be in Eponima, I can be in Copacabana, I can be in Nitero, I can be, you know I have so many great memories that even if I’m not on that beach right at the moment, I have, or I go back to that beach for the first time in 10 years, it’s just, yeah, it’s just great times, I love Rio.

57:14 Lot of love for Rio. Brazil, I like Brazil, beautiful country. I always thought you were part Brazilian for some reason, do you hear that a lot or not? Some people, because I speak a flu in Portuguese, I spend so much time there, so the accent, you know, if I start speaking Portuguese, I can carry the accent, so I can pass. What was it like being an Americano back in 2000?

57:35 Did everyone wanna kick your ass? Did no one wanna lose to the American on the mats back then? Yeah, I mean, when I got to Brazil, it was 1999, so it was, especially in the environment I was in and the Carlos and Gracie, it was everybody’s in there to, I was in the De La Jiva too, and that was, you know, he’s from the Carlos and Gracie, but it was a different, that was his operation, you see more clean, you see clean geese, combed hair, fresh shave, Carlos and Gracie, You didn’t see that dirty geeze, no shave, scar face, tough, in it to win it, grind face, no conversation.

58:11 We’re not here to talk. We’re here to win. We’re here to work together and win. So you had that teamwork effect there. Everybody’s in it to win it.

58:20 So what’s better, dirty geeze or clean geeze? I can tell you this. When I got to the Carlson Gracie and I got a lot of love for De La Riva to this day, He was, he’s great and it’s, I, I, I, when I got to the Carlson Gracie, I knew I was walking around looking at everybody. I said, oh man, this place is like a rough house. I said, I’m in the right place.

58:46 I’m in the right place. Like this is the right place. Cause I know these guys are in it to win it. However, I played, you know, I played both hands. I spent more time in my nice shoes and my sports coat these days.

58:56 I really do. As much as I’m in my gi and I’m on the mat or I’m training gi, no gi, giving lessons, I spend more time in my nice shoes and my sports coat. I’m looking, I’m clean, pristine, so. Are these two metaphors for life? The clean gi and the dirty gi.

59:12 Sometimes you gotta get down and dirty. Sometimes you gotta keep it clean. Sometimes you gotta take out the baseball bat and the hammer and some other times, you just gotta come in there with class and then take out the baseball bat in the hammer. How are you finding the business world and when you deal with corporates and how are you finding that whole aspect of your game compared to, say, 10 years ago when you were just fighting? How are you finding it?

59:41 It’s a different animal because going back to what I was saying when I was fighting, it was all about, I was very selfish. Now it’s all about these guys, whether it’s the students or the corporate guys, the high-level execs, it’s all to put a plan together and get in there and kick ass and go from, whether it be good to great or great to excellent or from excellent to better than excellent. So it’s, I love it. I love it. It’s just, I’m always with groups, they’re always striving.

1:00:07 These guys are striving. Good is not good enough. These are my guys. Do you find that if you meet a corporate guy who hasn’t trained Jiu Jitsu, is he a different kind of person than the guy that has trained, the guy that’s been tapped out, the guy that always walks around with a certain base level of humility? Or do you find that they aren’t that different, after all, the guys that have rolled?

1:00:25 I mean, people are people, but some, you have different gauges. I mean, there’s different gauges. There’s a lot of these guys, they just don’t want it for them. They don’t want that. They just want the champion mindset.

1:00:40 So it’s just, Jiu Jitsu’s one of my ways to deliver that help and inspire these guys, really inspire these people to go out and be the best they can be in life. And at the same time, I’m delivering them a five-star top caliber champion jiu-jitsu. So, I mean, if you look at all my stuff, it’s battle-tested, proven successful against the best. So, I’m giving them that, but I’m giving them, I’m inspiring these guys. I’ll get them fired up, I’ll get it out of them, get them a plan.

1:01:10 Yeah, it’s funny, because it’s a tool, and people haven’t trained jiu-jitsu that are listening to us. It’s like, oh, those guys are talking about martial arts, I don’t do martial arts, but you know, It’s a crazy tool just like wrestling when you’re a kid because you’re pushing yourself to new levels and you’re teaching your brain that you can go harder than you thought you could and you’re getting that confidence that gets you the next success and it’s all intertwined, isn’t it? Yeah, sure.

1:01:31 I mean, it could be, it’s just my choice of delivery is jujitsu in there with the high level exacts. I mean, that’s my choice of delivery. I could deliver it anywhere, but that’s where I choose to deliver. Do you watch UFC right now, what do you think of the current state of mixed martial arts? UFC is doing a great job, they’re doing an excellent job.

1:01:56 Look at the size of the show, they’re the big dog, they’ve taken over the world, they’ve taken over, they’re incredible. I don’t watch, I watch on occasion if I know a guy, if I’m the corner guy I’ll go out there but I really don’t, they’re having a show every week now, it’s very mainstream, They can’t, you know, it’s smart business. It’s smart business. There’s a lot of guys in there who really have no business being there. They’re just, they’re in it for the image.

1:02:24 They’re in it to say, oh, I’m a tough guy. I’m a fighter. I’m a tough guy. I fight in the UFC, but they have no business being there. They can’t fight.

1:02:31 Can you tell by watching them fight, can you tell the personality by watching them fight? I mean, see, sometimes you could pick them out. A lot of times you got chumps fighting chumps. One chump’s got to win, so in the end of the day, one chump’s got to win, so he’s going to be super confident, he’s going to think he’s the world, and they may just feed him another chump, chump after chump after chump, but eventually he’s going to have to fight somebody.

1:02:59 That’s when he’ll be exposed. On their part, I take my hat off to those guys, they’re running a great business model. You look at it, why pay a bunch of Anderson Silvers and superstars when they could pay a bunch, you know, get one of those fights on the card, get a bunch of other guys off bar stools, pay them next to nothing, it’s more money in their pocket, in the UFC’s pocket, that’s the business model. Why are they going to pay a bunch of Anderson Silva’s?

1:03:28 The beer drinker, they’re not making billions of dollars off the educated fans, not guys like me, they’re making it off, people want to drink a beer and see a fight. They don’t know the difference between champions and chumps. They don’t. Yeah, it’s funny because we always wanted the sport to go mainstream and now it’s mainstream you know, it’s changed a little bit. Yeah, it’s changed.

1:03:51 But hey, they’re doing a great job. Do you watch Jujitsu competitions? Do you watch Metamouristan and that stuff or do you kind of watch it? No, no, I’m just, you know, it goes back to I’m just so into my guys and helping my guys and adding to my network and building up what I’ve got and making it stronger and better. focused on that, I see this stuff, I see it out of the corner of my eye, but I don’t get drawn in.

1:04:15 The same thing like how we were relating to the sport jujitsu, how it’s become very mainstream, I see it out of the corner of my eye. That’s what I do. I focused on my guys. I want my guys to excel and be great and keep striving and I want them to be the best they can be. That’s where my energy’s at.

1:04:32 Where am I going next? You know, I want to help these guys. I want to help these guys. All right, how many guys are coming all right now. I know okay hundred guys gonna be there tonight I want to help a hundred guys be great. I want everybody to leave feeling great Step it up a notch So that’s that’s I’m just so into my into chop certified getting stronger and everybody that’s around me my family my friends Anybody that’s involved about be making it great for everybody that’s involved Talk to me quickly about fear.

1:05:04 You said that when you stepped up from jujitsu to MMA, the fear level went way up for you and it was like you’re watching. Oh yeah, the seeds, the seeds, it was like seeds were thrown in my head, they were planted. And how do you use fear now for you and how do you teach people to deal with fear? Because it’s easy to talk about it, but obviously fear is a real primal thing that’s inside of all of us and everyone’s scared of different things. So how do you use that or how do you teach people how to use that fear?

1:05:32 That’s that’s it’s not a quick fix. It’s not a quick fix, but I I could do it. I mean I do it on demand with I did it I did it with the pancreatic cancer. I mean they told me I’d boom on demand I’m just gonna step up I’m gonna deal with this it wasn’t I didn’t I didn’t dwell on it and and and I learned that from that’s that’s something I learned from a fight experience and it took me decades to actually build the equation of what I learned from from from those that fight I’m relating to my first MMA fight but I mean for me I conquer fear on demand because you recognize now boom it’s it’s I I built a whole engine out of this thing over decades I mean this is this is my thing conquer fear on demand and can you teach other people to do that yes I can that’s that’s what I do that’s what I do I’m guessing people are a little scared of you when they meet you on the mats oh Yeah, I mean, whether it’s on the mats or in a board room, a little bit, but you know, in the end of the day, I’m there to help these guys be the best they can be, and it’s like I say, I’m there for them, not me.

1:06:35 But yeah, sure, you get that intimidation factor. Once they get to know me, they know I’m there for them. First confrontation, the first approach, what they would consider, oh, it was a confrontation. They’re in. And if they want excellence, they’re in.

1:06:53 If they want good, they’re on another boat. You know, Dustin, I always ask people to come hear a couple questions. At the end, I’m going to hit you with them. If you could make a phone call to the 20-year-old Dustin Dennis and give that young man a bit of advice, what would you tell him? That’s a tough question.

1:07:16 When were you at 20? I would tell him what, if only I knew then what I know now, I would tell them, ah, I was in school getting ready go to Brazil, getting ready to move to Brazil. But I was becoming fascinated and immersed in Jiu Jitsu. That’s where I was. I would emphasize this, but what I’m teaching now, my help and inspire, this 20-year-old kid, this me, but that me wouldn’t have listened.

1:07:46 And I owe a lot of how I was back then, played a major role in how I am today. Because I’ve experienced the other end of the spectrum. I’ve experienced it firsthand, so now I can look from the other side and say, no, no, no, no, no, no, now it was, I’ve changed the game and I’m happy I’ve done that. Really happy I’ve done that. Did you have parents or relatives or anyone that kind of got you to become who you are or do you think this is genetically you who came out?

1:08:16 What, with the champion mindset and the strategy and the explanation? Yeah, it’s just the guy that would trade his breakfast for a run in the morning when in your 10 and 12 years old? Just wrestling, wrestling. I knew, you know, that like there’s a saying Dan Gable says, once you’ve wrestled everything else and life is easy. And it was, yeah, wrestling, I just, I wanted something different.

1:08:37 I wanted something, I wanted, I knew everybody else wasn’t doing it and it just, I don’t know, it just, it was natural for me. I didn’t even think about it. Now I know, hey, if everybody’s doing it, I don’t wanna do it because it’s mainstream. I don’t wanna be mainstream. Gold medal, 100 guys sign up, not 100 guys get gold medals.

1:08:56 Not 100 girls, whoever shows up, they don’t hand a gold out for everybody. I’m gaming for the gold, 24 seven, 365. And if I get my ass kicked, I’m gaming for revenge. The moment I walk off that mat, the moment I walk out of that deal, the moment I’m in it to win it. So I think going back to the question, I would tell him what I know now that 20 year old Dustin but that 20 year old wouldn’t have listened he would he would have played that hard end of the spectrum and he would have learned the hard way and I think it’s made me that much better because I know I’ve lived it you know people could talk about it all they want oh do this diet you know you hear a lot of stuff with diet or anything in life oh do this diet but they’ve never done it I’m a person I study diet I took track all my notes I know what worked after five years I pretty much ate everything in different balances I know what works for me you know how many people really practice what they preach so not many a lot of people can talk you know when it comes time to walk the walk it’s it’s it’s a different game right well said what is your diet like I hear you eat it like up to 5,000 calories a day and you know you obviously you train a lot you know What’s your diet like? What I’m a carb junkie. I love carbs. I love carbs. It’s not the mainstream. Yeah, there you go I’m like the more carbs I eat the more throttle I got to kick somebody’s ass and it’s like I love it

1:10:26 I’m just yeah I’ve got to back it up and do my strength and condition and do my jiu-jitsu would do my training But I’m a carb junkie. What kind of carb junkie kind of car Oh just everything all this stuff that people say don’t eat don’t eat that don’t you want to get shredded? You wanna get strong, you wanna get fast. I’m a lean, mean, killing machine, Brian. I’m the real thing and I’m just gaming carbs all day.

1:10:50 Oatmeal, bread, potatoes. I don’t even want chicken and chicken slows me down. Chicken, steak, that stuff slows me down. I’m just, I’m rice, bread, what’s giving, I’m putting 100 octane in an engine that runs on gas. on gas I’m not these guys who are putting their they’re putting chicken and steak chicken and steak hand over fist in their system they’re putting diesel in a car in a car that runs on gas so hey whatever works for them if that’s if that’s good for them let them be good right well said the second part of that advice question is what’s the best advice you’ve ever received I’ve received a lot of great advice make your brakes make your brakes I think that’s huge, three words.

1:11:46 You wanna make things happen, make it happen. Things don’t happen on their own. You know, they happen because you step up and you make things happen. You know, whether it be relationships, you wanna create something, you know, go out and create, make things happen. Make things, don’t wait for things to happen.

1:12:03 Don’t sit around and wait and then be surprised when something didn’t happen. Gotta step up and that’s where the fear comes in play where people say, oh, I don’t wanna reach out that person or I don’t want to step up just do it conquer your fear on demand so make your breaks make things happen go out in the world get after it get after it it’s not gonna come after you I think I got to get after it and it and you know going back to what I make your breaks three words make your breaks that’s it make your breaks good advice I think Rogerio said he gave you some advice when you were down in Brazil one time and he was just talking about about how, you know, maybe he didn’t have to tell you, but he was just like, look, you keep going at it, you keep going at it, and you know, you’re gonna start cleaning up at everybody down here.

1:12:50 Is that something, do you remember him telling you? Or was that just- I remember, it was actually Houdrego. Okay. And Houdrego, because he saw I was in that, you know, what I’m calling failing forward, saw me lose, lose, lose. People don’t realize how much I lost to beat, you know, to submit in the long run, In the end, to make guys like Marcelo Garcia and all these superstars, I lost so much.

1:13:16 The difference is, oh geez, I lost like so much. I had to re-emphasize it right there, but the difference is I just kept getting up. I never lost sight of the main goal, and Rodrigo actually said he’s had clean, you know, when just stick to it, stick to it. He would always, he was always there with me by my side like big bro, and stick to it, don’t back off. You’re going to show up soon and these guys are going to be, they’re going to look at you, the Brazilian, they’re going to say, oh shit, the gringo showed up.

1:13:44 My answer to that is, the gringo did show up and he’s going to skin everybody alive. It’s like, here it comes back around, it’s going to hurt. That was a motivator. His father gave me really great words. His father in the north of Brazil, we would travel up to the north to see his family, and his father said to me, his father saw that I was having a rough time in the competition, But I kept getting up and going forward, and he just said, like I did, for me it was natural.

1:14:12 It was my instinct. He said, stick with my son. He said, you just stick with Rodrigo, and everything’s going to shine for you. Your time’s going to come here. So you just got to stick to it.

1:14:24 So you got to stick to it. You got to get up and make it happen. You got to say, make your breaks. Like, hey, I got up and I went to Brazil. You talk about sacrifice.

1:14:32 I have my family. How are you going to Brazil? It was a third world country. And at that time, it was pretty much unheard of. Now it’s become more mainstream.

1:14:40 Guys go to Brazil. It’s great for the sport. I’m super happy to see that. And that’s a great experience. Brazilian jiu-jitsu, I think it’s an important part that, hey, go do some training in Brazil.

1:14:50 Maybe not immerse yourself, but go check it out. Immerse yourself for a couple weeks. Doesn’t need to be a couple years. So, Rodrigo’s father, I stuck with Rodrigo. And sure enough, I mean, bam, it all came back to me.

1:15:04 That was the hard work. that was the sacrifice, I owe it to me, I owe it to my coaches, I owe it to my training partners, I owe it to me getting up and kicking my ass out the door at 12, 12 years old, 11, 12 years old. And fail forward, that’s what you keep saying. Fail forward, I’m failing forward, I fall. I’m in the business of failing forward and I just fall on my face, I get up, I keep going forward, I don’t stop because I learn and that’s where if you’re late, if you look, I’m not a big fan, now we’re talking to a guy, I spent four years, I got a four year degree marketing I got my MBA I’m not a big fan of traditional school I’m not a big fan because the traditional school taught me how to study but traditional school teaches you not to fail and a lot of my biggest victories they’re there because I I failed but I got I stepped up I had to not only step up but I had to step up to a whole nother level and keep stepping up whereas your traditional school system and they teach you not to fail.

1:16:02 They teach people, you know, go out and what’s a majority of the population do, go out and get job security, get after it. No risk, no return, get in there. So I’m just that different breed, that brass balls breed and I’m willing to take the risk. I’m gonna get big lessons, I’m gonna step up and I’m gonna hit home runs. I mean, that’s what I’m all about.

1:16:24 Can you teach someone to fail forward who’s not doing it? Can you actually teach that, you think? Uh, you know, I think, I think that’s something people, I think you can teach so much, but you just, you know, it’s, I think a lot of people, it goes back to the fear. They’re scared. They’re scared. What if I fail?

1:16:45 And then I lose, you know, they prefer the job security instead of going for it, something bigger and better and huge that, Hey, when this thing, this thing connects, you know, it’s going to be a whole nother level of success, but they’re scared to take that risk. They’d rather, they’re content. They’re content with good. They’ll get their job security, they’re content, and that’s just what they want. It’s not a right or wrong, it’s just, that’s what they want.

1:17:13 If that’s what makes them happy, great for them. I’m happy for them. Right, just different choices for different people. Yeah, it’s a different choice. Everybody has their right to their choice and how they wanna live their life.

1:17:23 If that’s how they wanna do it, I take my hat off to them. That’s, you know, you’re doing what you want to do, but it’s, I’m into the brass balls and stepping up and- Right, it’s not the chop way. Failing forward, that’s not chop. It’s not chop. Chop is step up, step up and hit home runs.

1:17:39 Last question for you. To the 20-year-old that’s listening to us out there in the world, maybe they’re in Brazil, maybe they’re in China somewhere, what advice do you give to them? What would you say to them if they want to up their game, you know, if they want to get chop-certified? What do they do? Are we talking about Brazilian jiu-jitsu?

1:17:56 Are we talking about the corporate board room? Or are we talking about any angle in life, whatever it may be, their business, their work, their life in general, martial arts. Come right to me, chopcertified.com. I mean, I’ll get them on the path. I’ll get them on the path to excellence if that’s what they really want.

1:18:16 It’s a hard road. It’s not for everybody, but it’s for the ones who are willing to pay the price. get the results. Should they, should they look at some things in their life that they enjoy and just like pick half of them and just sacrifice them? I mean, you know, a big, I’m put, put something up for sacrifice.

1:18:37 Hold yourself to it. Okay. You can’t, you can’t set the, set the goal and say, Hey, I’m going to get these things done and, and get this done today. And if I get it, but if I don’t get it done and it’s very realistic, they got to be realistic when they’re with themselves, but at the same time, striving because if they’re striving and when you make sacrifice, it only helps the stakes. Sacrifice gets bigger, not smaller.

1:19:00 You keep challenging yourself. You get big, great, you know, great sacrifice gets great results, you achieve the goal. You know, you don’t make sacrifice at best you get good results. Excellent, I love it man, it’s good stuff. For people that are listening to us, how do they get ahold of you?

1:19:18 You just mentioned your website, you do the social media thing, how do they find out about you? Chopcertified.com. Yeah, is there an actual certification they get or is oh, yeah. Yeah, I’ll get them certified I mean there’s different phases. There’s different. Yeah, I get them I get them on the path I mean my stuff is you get you you you gotta walk away and then you get immediate results I mean you get all about results. I’m in it to win it not bullshit and I’m not in this I’m in this I want to make every moment of every second count. I’m not talking about minutes I’m not talking about hours. I’m talking about moments I work in split moments so I’m all about productivity in it to win it I love it Dustin thanks so much for coming I’ve seen you on the mat you’re a scary guy indeed and you know you come in great company people like Peter Irving Brad Waldron and you know thanks so much for coming here and dropping some science on us happy to be here thank you guys you know incredible success here congrats to you Brian and it’s a real honor and pleasure to be here our pleasure man as You say on London Real it’s about the journey, man, you’re on a serious one.

1:20:25 Stop back in and let us know how it’s going sometime and all the best. Definitely, in it to win it. All right, dude, take care. Take care.