Dorian Yates - Evolution Of The Shadow

Full transcript: Dorian Yates on London Real

4:52 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Dorian Yates, the former professional bodybuilder who was crowned Mr. Olympia six consecutive times from 1992 to 1997 and holds the fourth highest number of Mr. Olympia titles of all time. You are widely considered to be one of the top athletes in bodybuilding history, and you are the most popular guest in the seven-year history of London Real. You were also the feature of our very first documentary film, Dorian Yates: Inside the Shadow, and I consider you to be an important mentor, a dear friend and a powerful visionary.

5:21 Dorian, welcome back to London Real. Thanks, man. Great to be on number three, and it’s amazing. Compliment that I’m the most popular guest on here, because you have so many amazing guests on here that I look up to and I can learn things from, so it’s amazing. All the people who’ve had on there, I’m, I’m big fans of all of them, you know.

5:43 And we were looking back through the dates, and you were here the first time, January 7th, 2013, almost six years ago, and we didn’t know we were getting into it, did we? Neither of us, I don’t think. You know, I always had a lot of fans, but the reaction is different now. It’s more emotional, and it’s more not just about bodybuilding. Is that about something bigger?

6:01 I just remember, like, three weeks ago we did the Arnold Classic in Barcelona, and a lot of people coming up, and I mean, the podcast London Real gets mentioned a lot, the Joe Rogan show, which I would never be on if I wasn’t on London Real first. Guy came to me, holding my hand, and he’s like, Dorian, you saved my life. I mean, we’re both there with tears in the eyes, and wow. This is, this is amazing. You know, so it gives me this, this is feedback to me to keep doing this and keep talking.

6:34 Half an hour later, another guy comes up. He says to me exactly the same thing. Look, you don’t understand, man. I mean, you don’t know, but you saved my life. I’m like, man, if I have a feel down, I’m just gonna think about these guys, and you know, just keep doing what I’m doing.

6:51 So yeah, Brian, you know, this medium is really powerful, and when you’re so open and honest, you know, it changes lives. We’re full of, I mean, we’re in a world that’s full of a lot of, and false things. So I think people instinctively recognize when somebody’s just being honest and genuine, and they’re encouraged to be able to do the same thing themselves, and then be who they are and say what they want to say. We’re a lot of time people feel it’s not safe to do that.

7:20 So yeah, they said a great effect. So here we are again, here we are again, and you know, you always seem to come back in certain intervals, and the others, just January 7th was the first time, 2013, about 18 months later, in August 2015, you came back completely, you know, different. You, new ideas, new energy. Then we went down to see you in Spain, end of 2016, made the movie. You came in, a London premiere at BAFTA, which was really epic.

7:47 It was great to be in the, in the bath, though, you know, and have a movie made about myself and my life and my thoughts. That was great. So, and that had a massive impact on everyone there and everyone afterwards, and now it’s been about 18 months, and you’re back again. You know, you know I know you kind of intentionally say, you know what, Brian, I’m only going to come back when I feel like I have something new to say, and when it’s been a certain amount of time.

8:09 Yeah, I mean, a donor, you know, I want people to get bored. We want to, you know, when have an impact, some kind of impact every time. The show has been very impactful on people, so a bit weary of doing it too often, and you have so many great guests. So yeah, I think it’s been a good period with the two interviews, and the, and the the movie, which was great, so I have, you have some more things to talk about now. I mean, things have changed a lot for me, from, from the show and from the movie.

8:40 I’ve released my autobiography, you know, from the shadow, and you, of the movie was Inside the Shadow, and actually at the, at the premiere of the movie is where I kind of met with my now business partner, and we launched the Shadow Line sports nutrition, bodybuilding nutrition line. So it’s been, Shadow, Shadow, Shadow has been following me around, and since, since we came on there, but I know it in a great way. And when it comes to bodybuilding, it really looks like people are looking back to the early days, as men would, you, you never would have expected, you know, I, even if I would have interviewed you maybe in ’95 or ’96, if you would have talked to me at the time, I don’t know, and you would have said, what’s the future of bodybuilding?

9:27 You probably would have thought it would have evolved and got better, but nowadays these kids are looking back to you guys in the ’90s, and this, this was maybe the peak, a purely bodybuilding. I really think so. Yeah, because now it’s a, is diversified. From ’80s and ’90s, it was pretty much purely bodybuilding. Now there’s a whole industry, if you like, fitness industry, and of course the social media had a big, huge impact on a lot more people going to the gym, but maybe they’re not bodybuilding, and then they look at the bodybuilders now, and because of the social media and the internet, they’re getting exposed to the guys like myself and Flex Wheeler and Kevin Levrone, Ronnie Coleman, Shawn Ray and all these guys from the ’90s, and they’re like, wow, look at these guys.

10:15 These, maybe they look better, and this is 20 years ago, and I think there was a different, there was much more work ethic than now. It seems to be a lot of it that’s a bit superficial. It’s more like how you look, and people in the gym with a phone taking selfies, and really focusing on doing the work. So I think people recognize that as well, something really genuine there that inspires them. Do you think, if there was a Dorian Yates that was pushing everybody harder, that they would have to really work harder, the higher the standard will be, higher, that things would be different?

10:49 Well, I don’t, that’s, that’s what the guys from the night, to say now, you know, now that we’re all, we’re all older and we’re all relaxed, and you know, we can all recognize that. It was pretty special times that we were in, in the ’90s of bodybuilding. There were so many, so many good people there. You know, so yeah, it’s, it’s great that the people, young people now are looking back, and you know, Flex Wheeler, Kevin, the Brawn, they kind of relaunched their careers, if you like, and it’s helping me along as well.

11:21 So, perfect. Nice to see that respect. Yeah, and we have this mutual respect now, after all this has gone. Even myself and Shawn Ray, well, like polar opposites, and he don’t like me very much, I don’t like him very much, and we had that competitive needle that was always, always there. Now, you know, we couldn’t laugh about that, and we can shake hands, and we respect each other, because you’re only as good as the people, they, in a sport, here, only be as good as a people who are competing against.

11:50 And I believe that was the best bunch of guys in the ’90s, so I came out number one, and that bunch. So yeah, I feel very honored to be there, and the guys say that to me. They say, you know, we went the extra mile because we were chasing you all the time, crazy, ass over there in England, and we don’t know what you’re doing, and you know, well, we know that you’re just pushing all the time, so we got, you know, we’ve got to keep pushing. We’ve got the Shadow looming over us, so we can’t really sit back and relax too much.

12:21 You know, well, maybe you know, if you feel like you’re head of the package, you can chill out a little bit, you know, have some fun. So I don’t know. I mean, Dorian Yates now wouldn’t be able to be like the Dorian you said before, because you know, social media and everything like that. So it’s a different, it’s a different day. I could do that.

12:43 I could disappear a little bit and be off the radar. You guess, it’d be very difficult to do that now. Yeah, you couldn’t be the Shadow, could you? It’d be very difficult, man. I mean, you know, he pretty much got a, before the exposure that you had was the magazines, so you know, you do your shoot for the magazines, you do your interview, and then you can disappear from everybody’s life, apart from through this magazine, which meant that there was a great demand to see us personally, more than now, because you can go on internet and see everything, and you, being this Shadow figure, that they just could not check in.

13:18 They couldn’t check Instagram. They couldn’t know. That’s it. There’s, it’s the mystery. They just assumed probably the worst.

13:23 Yeah, it’s just the mystery, and I, I knew this, you know, was pretty good instinctively, you know, kind of sports psychology. I know what goes on with people, so I didn’t want them to know anything about me. You know, if I was in Gold’s Gym every day and they saw me training, they see everything, you know, they, they, you know, was something about their, can, gets, you know, the conceived peers, having a good day or a bad day. I prefer that people didn’t know anything, so I’ll just be like an enigma that they would be kind of in the back of their mind, and they’d be worrying about that.

13:54 You know, be very difficult to be the Shadow now and, and still be active, unless he’s just going to do a contest of, you, and disappear, but it’s, it’s not really practical now. So, is it in different times? You know, times change, and everything changes now. We’ve got the fitness industry, which is a lot of people involved, but I think bodybuilding has actually declined, probably, whereas the rest of the gym industry, people going for fitness, cross beard, men’s physique.

14:22 There’s so many different outlets and categories now, which is, which is great. More people are getting to the gym and exercise, and I’m all for that. I’m not because I was a bodybuilder, you know, really. Wow, I only like bodybuilding. I think any kind of sports and exercise is a really positive thing, and I, I don’t do a lot of weights now because of my injuries.

14:43 It’s not really practical for me. As you know, I do yoga, I do biking, I can even swim now without sinking. No, because I’ve got less muscle and everything, more mobile, but I just like exercise thing. It’s a beautiful thing, and I think I’ll be lost without exercise. It’s interesting how you talk about how the lack of information, you know, when you were training in the ’80s and ’90s brought kind of better results, you know, and the fact that, well, maybe in fear of somebody out there doing more than them, that drove them even further, and then the lack of, there was no internet really back then, so I couldn’t find the information, and yet you still will be able to create this physique that now people are looking at is maybe one of the best.

15:26 Well, yeah, you could find the information in books and magazines, but way much less than now. So now we’ve got more information on everything, but doesn’t mean all the information is correct or good, so you’ve got to sift through it, and somehow with more information and more technology and more, somehow you lose the heart. I think you lose the heart, you lose the work ethic. You guys come to me and then they’re asking me, or, you know, what about this carb backloading or something?

15:58 I’m like, man, I never heard of that. Yeah, what is that? I don’t, I don’t know. Yeah, it’s listen, that and this and that. I’m like, look, man, most things are basic.

16:08 Yeah, but I don’t care which information you got. Keep it simple, keep it basic, but don’t forget this: it’s about hard work, man. There’s no special vir, special routine, a special diet, special that can get you out of the hard work. Yeah, if you don’t like hard work, then really do something else, man, because this is what it’s about. And for me, it was about a challenge in myself, you know, and if it’s not difficult, with that, where’s the challenge?

16:37 So that was the beauty of other thing for me. Challenging myself is more than just building the body. It was challenging my soul. It’s, you know, it’s challenging everything. You know, override it.

16:49 You can override those instincts. I’m starving, man, I’m gonna eat now. You can’t, like, so it’s a test of will as well, through the whole process. So sometimes there’s too much information, you lose that, you know, people lose sight of that, and there are at the Instagram, and they’re looking at the quickest way to do X, Y, Zed, and they’re using the information as, uh, like a procrastination tool, sometimes. Yeah, or, you know, they did one month, you’re gonna listen to this guy, and then the next month you’re gonna listen to this guy.

17:18 You’re gonna find your own way. So it’s interesting to listen to all these things, but hard work is the core, and people ask me about my training routines, and I say, it’s not just me, because I know other people. Yeah, Arnold, Lee Haney, Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman. We all do basically the same thing, more or less, the same exercises. I did the same exercises for my back for, this, four legs with, well, Wayne.

17:47 Should I change my routine when show change? That every six weeks, every eight weeks. Like, you know, if it’s an exercise that it works, you don’t need to change it. You know, only if you’re like, you need to stimulate yourself mentally. Maybe doing this exercise, somehow, he gets tail on it.

18:00 You get, you know, you’re not getting excited about it. You could change it a little bit for that reason. I don’t think there’s a physical reason to change. Benchpress, incline press, flies, that’s the chest routine of pretty much everybody. You know, I didn’t like bench press, because it was flat bench press, because it put a lot of, for me, my mechanics, it was working more front delt and not so much pecs.

18:20 So I had to use a load decline, or something like that, but it’s a small change. Flat bench, although decline, it’s still bench press, incline press, you know, so we’ll do fairly much, you know, a little variances, but very much the same things. So don’t get caught up in, you know, the technicalities and their fancy routines and stuff too much. Just keep that core there. That’s about working hard, working and challenge yourself, and if you challenge yourself and you’re overcome, then you feel good, man.

18:52 You feel good, you know? So just keep doing that, and it builds on itself. I got a small glimpse into what you’re talking about when I went down, train with you in my bath ago, the little talk I give you about your gun to your baby’s head. That’s when you pinched it from somewhere else. I gotta be honest, I’ve heard it somewhere else.

19:11 People that haven’t watched the movie, and they should go watch it. What did you tell me that day? I told you that your physical output is only going to be as good as your motivation. Yeah, so I just use that as an example, because I knew, just had a baby, so I didn’t wanted to get inside your head and visualize, I get a gun to the most precious thing in the world to you, and imagine if I’m like, you’ve got to do one more rep or the gun’s gonna go off, man.

19:37 I mean, you know, it’s not real, but it’s just a scenario to create, and like, this is what you need, man: desperation to push through that last rep, to know where is your limit. A lot of people that come to train with me, I do one-on-ones, and, and so on, a limited amount anyway, and I help people, and I’ve got my own certification, DY Chai Tea, which is certifying trainers and my methods, so they can go to wherever they are and, and correctly because a lot of people, I had people there, and they’re great, and they’re like, Dorian, I’ve got your video, I’ve got your book, have read all the articles, and I thought that I was training like you, and I thought, but I wasn’t quite there, because it’s a little bit more that you can squeeze out, or is a little bit more in the technicality of the performance of the movement, like the angle of the body and holding here and doing this, all these little things add up.

20:31 So even people that are training on my methods, when they come to train with me, they get a little bit more out of it, and a lot of it is psychological. To say, right, you think I’ve got people ready to put the weight down, and I’ve got three or four more reps out of them. I said, look, you did that, you lifted that weight. I didn’t. I didn’t touch it, man.

20:50 I mean, it looked like I was going to touch it if you needed it, but I didn’t actually touch it. So you did three or four more reps. So that shows you’re physically capable of doing that. You just did it. Right?

21:00 Why weren’t you doing it before? Because you didn’t know that you could do it. You didn’t know there was some more there, but I got it out of you, and now you know. So now you can take that with you back wherever you’re going to go, and you know that you can do a little bit more than you think every time. So just, I’m not going to be there every day, shown in your ear, and like, my presence is not going to be there, but you can remember this and take it with you.

21:23 So, and afterwards you said to me, you said, yeah, Brian, but that’s every day you do that. Yes, every day you go to a place that’s so painful, you go into such a visualization that maybe a so grotesque, that gets you into this mental. They used to push out that last three extra reps, and you do it day after day after day. Yeah, that’s what makes a champion, and it’s not just the reps. I mean, hopefully maybe when you were doing your Ironman and you’re doing the cycling and you’re doing the swimming, you took a bit of that there, like when you feel tired or like, no, man, there’s, there’s more there, and I’m in control here.

22:01 Yeah, I’m in control here, not my instincts, you know, my instinct to stop, it’s getting uncomfortable. I’m gonna override that with, with this. So, and with no challenging, I move forward. You know, the, you have to be a little uncomfortable sometimes to move forward. Otherwise we sit here and everything’s great, and we’re not, don’t need to do anything, right?

22:23 And sometimes we don’t like it. I mean, I’m here, and people listen to me like a mentor, but I always think it’s important to say, listen, I’m not up here like I am, got all the answers, man. I have bad days as well, you know? Sometimes I listen to myself on London Real. Wow.

22:42 Yeah, listen to this guy. It’s me, you know. So we’re still all learning all the time. So I think sometimes people, they’re in a position of teaching, they’re a bit on a pedestal, and they’re like, you look at them, and you think, well, everything’s perfect in their world, but I don’t really think that’s so. Maybe one day I’ll be sitting here and just levitating and everything’s great.

23:06 No, no, maybe, maybe in another London Real. But you know, it’s important to tell people, hey, listen, you know, I won six Mr. Olympia trophies. I’m here in London Real and this and that, but you know, sometimes I, you know, sometimes I can catch myself slipping, so it’s good I listen to myself sometimes, or some other people just get some inspiration, some of that energy. Yeah, because you know it’s very easy to get a negative thought, and this can spiral, you know, or you get a positive one, and it starts building on itself.

23:36 So when you get the negative ones, you’ve got to try to and shift direction. I did use that on my Ironman race. One of my trainers, her name Samantha, you’ll see her in the movie, and she said Brian, the brain always shuts down before the body. She said that over and over. Also, and they’ve done some, and she said, it’s, it’s a scientific fact, and we don’t know that, and I trained with Dorian, so I know that, and so you just realized that, you know?

23:59 And then David Goggins says most people quit at 40 percent, so you know, you have these things, and I would go for these long runs, sometimes 30-kilometer runs, and my brain would start to tell me little stories and try to trick me. Yeah, and say, oh, me hurt, Brian, you didn’t eat breakfast. Yeah, oh, you’re getting a little, maybe you should save it for next weekend, you don’t want to get an injury. Absolutely, playing tricks with me. Absolutely.

24:23 I’m sure that used to happen all the time, and all the time, and especially like the worst situations I had was with the injuries. That’s when I was close, you know, I was thinking like, this, what can I do with this? This, I guess I can’t do anything. I remember twice that happened to me, and that lasted for about two days, and I didn’t act on it, you know, if I’d, I ran out then and said, screw this, it’s all over, and stuff my face, and it would have been down, down, down, but I managed to stop it and say, hey, I got the injuries, not ideal, of course, but let’s see what we can do with this, best-case scenario.

24:58 And a couple of times I pulled it out of the bag. There was your last couple of competitions when you were really injured. Yeah, and so you put, you competed anyways? Yeah, I said, look, let me, I got injured. This is gonna restrict me, this is gonna limit me, but let me see what I can do.

25:17 If it’s gonna be good enough, like, if I decide the day before a contest, look, there’s no way I can fee, the day before, I can decide that, not four weeks out or six weeks out, when, if I decide then, that’s like, so never tasted finished, right? So a couple of times. But yeah, I, this voice is in your head, they’re there all the time. My head, everyone, I’m sure they’re there, and everyone’s head. It’s just like, what do you do about it?

25:40 Do you listen to them or do you overrule them? Yeah, but look, tricep tendons in bad shape and you’re really hungry. I mean, you got so many physical pressures put it on to your brain saying, come on, let’s pack this in. Absolutely. And how can you compete against the best in the world when you can’t train?

25:58 I mean, I literally couldn’t train for three weeks. Well, sir, okay, you can’t train for three weeks with weights. Well, you’ve been training with weights for twelve years, so three weeks out of 12 years. I’m sure all the other guys have already took their three weeks earlier in the, so it’s now my three weeks is by the contest. Obviously not ideal, but I got through it.

26:19 But I know exactly what you mean with these, the voices, they still test me now every time I go up the hill on my bike, man. It’s like a little bit. I mean, I’ve done it so many times, it’s not so loud now, but it’s a little bit like, I have to go all the way to the top today, if you don’t feel like it, because maybe didn’t get so much sleep last night, or maybe something, maybe this, maybe that, you know, whatever, you know, so you can justify it to yourself.

26:42 Yeah, you know, I hear you. You need, like, you say your knees hurting today, and, like, I’m just gonna keep going. Every time I get to the top now, you know, I feel, I feel great. That’s how you feel. If I went down that mountain halfway up and went back down, man, I’d be like beating myself up all day.

26:59 I’d feel like, and it’s not a competition. I’m not winning money here or trophies or nothing. There’s nobody with me. I’m on my own, my bike. No one will know if I don’t go all the way, but I won’t know, so I feel like I let myself down.

27:12 So if I say I’m gonna do this, I’m locking it. I’m doing it, man. If I know that I really don’t want to do it, or it’s not something I really want, or it’s not going to be beneficial to me, I can already decide I’m not gonna do it before I start doing it, but once I’ve committed, I can’t back out at that point, because then I, you know, I’ll see that as a weakness. Yeah, I think it’s, some people are calling it the central governor theory, when your body starts introducing all of these things to just kind of limit its output, you know, in the idea that it’s gonna save you in the long run from an evolution standpoint.

27:46 Yeah, but I can see it happening with my endurance races and things like that, you were doing with training, and then once I saw it, I thought, this is working all the time in my life, telling me everything about myself every day. You’re not this, you know, don’t go do that, don’t talk to that girl, don’t do that business, and it’s running your life. It’s governing you to be just kind of small. Yeah, I get a little bit. Now, because you know, like this, too, like in a cartoon, the two guys on the shoulders.

28:13 Yeah. I got the guy saying I need to do this today, and then I got the other guy saying, well, you can take some time off, man, it can be a bit lazy, because look what you did earlier on. So sometimes the lazy guy wins. Now, but I let him. I’m like, yeah, okay, in like, today, you know, you can relax a little bit, because, yeah, you did do a lot of there, and okay, maybe deserve it today.

28:37 So it is now. It’s like getting a balance, you know? You know, otherwise it can be a little OCD and too much. So everything’s now, it for me, is coming about getting into balance. Can you talk about the psychology?

28:50 Then you mentioned there, you’re going into a competition, you are not a hundred percent. You also are against guys where, you know, each one of them has little buttons you can push, and it’s something that we don’t see on the stage. And I watched, we all watched so much footage of you compete on the stage for the movie, and I recently watched a Mr. Olympia, and you know, you see all the physiques, but you forget there’s a lot going on in the brain, and guys that have worked years on their physiques can get up there and drop the ball on stage.

29:18 Right? You, you’ve probably seen it, or they cannot be the best of them’s best selves. Right? Yeah, absolutely. I’ve seen it.

29:24 Did you? I mean, the only time I went to the Mr. Olympia, the first one I went to the Mr. Olympia, was a new experience for me, because I was competing against Lee Haney, who was seven times Mr. Olympia. He was a Mr. Olympia in 1984, and I started training properly in 1983, so first of all, I had the, the barrier there with Lee Haney, that he was a sky. That’s great guy that I admired, and the great champion, and there’s like awesome and everything, so I had to change that to say, you know, and people helped me, because, they, you know, people in the industry, like, you know, you could give him a run and everything.

30:05 So I started thinking like that, and by then I knew more. You know, I’m just like, you know what, I don’t think anyone’s training like I don’t know. I think I was training harder than me, so give me a little advantage, and I’m gonna go, I’m gonna try to beat this guy, not in a cocky way, but that’s, I mean, I’m going, man. It’s a competition. I want to win.

30:23 Yeah, and so while I’m going, so I want to beat this guy. So I had to change my mentality going up against Lee Haney, and then the second one I got second in the first Mr. Olympia. The second time I went, he wasn’t there, so this was again, now I’ve lost the underdog status. Chris Lehane is from the States, and he’s has been champion, and I’m just this kid from Birmingham. Let’s go, nothink, and so I can use that.

30:51 Yeah, I couldn’t use that anymore, because now I’m the favorite, so I had to change the mentality there, to say, wow, so I’m the favorite now, so I could be the best in the world, which is a crazy thought when you think about it. Huh? I really me. Yeah, man, why not? Nobody gives as much as, um, I know you haven’t seen that.

31:13 Yeah, yeah, all right. So the second one was different. Is this a conversation you’re having over many months, like when you’re in the gym? Yeah, I’m taking. So I’m going, so I’m going.

31:24 I think I’m, and we have that when you’re training something. No, I’m training. I’m in a bubble. I don’t think anything. I’m just doing.

31:31 I’m constantly, I mean, I’m in the muscle. I am the muscle, so I don’t really think anything apart from that. When I’m training is like a meditation. If you try to, like, everything else is gone. Just become one with it.

31:41 But yeah, so it’s ongoing all the time, and this is a months and months leading up. Yeah, you know, like changing, changing, changing until I go to the contest like, “norm,” and it’s, I’m gonna win this. I am the best. Yeah, and I won that one, and then does that carry through with your posture? Did the guys feel it when they walk in the room?

32:00 They’re like, I’m sort of okay. Everything you do, people have told me that. I’m a good friend of mine, Chris Cormier, he was competing, the Mr. Olympia, the later ones. He’s like, I couldn’t understand, next to you, man, so like, if you had a force field coming off here, like me, like, a power, like confidence. And after I won the first one and went into the second one, I mean, I had that, and plus people knew that I had made it to huge improvements that year.

32:26 So I had that, and I carried that all the time, but that power level was way down on the last one. I can tell you that I was not feeling myself. I was not feeling confident, because I know this injury was very serious. It was almost a complete detachment, and it’s like this rope of a tendon was holding on by a little, little thread, and a knock on there, or even just tensing too hard, I was afraid to do that. Oh yeah, yeah, maybe.

32:56 So you’re going in there feeling very vulnerable. I never felt vulnerable before. I went in there vulnerable, and I think I was just glad to get out the other side of the contest. I mean, my arm was swollen the night before the contest. It was still very swollen with blood and fluids and everything.

33:14 I had a guy who was helping me out had this machine on my arm, pumping, like, four hours a day to get the fluids out. And then we had a, like, a long pair still the day before the contest, which was visible, and he came and got a syringe and pulled out, like, 20 ml of fluid and blood and everything off there, so it cosmetically was less noticeable. I’ve competed with them, and I didn’t. I only told, like, two people about this injury. Yeah, because if it was common knowledge, first of all, it gives the guys, what, ah, the lion is wounded, that’s good, let’s get him.

33:47 You know, so I didn’t want people to know, and I didn’t want the judges to know, because they might be also scrutinizing, our, where is that injury, and noticing it more perhaps. So I don’t know if that would be possible. Dude, it wouldn’t be possible these days. There would be some guy from my gym that knew that I got injured that day, he’ll be on the Internet in five seconds, and I’ll be all around the world, so I wouldn’t be able to do that these days.

34:09 So I knew that I wasn’t feeling powerful, but I don’t want to give encouragement and power to the other guys, so I kept it very quiet until after the contest. I was over acting. Yeah, exactly, and a day earlier, two days earlier, it would have been so disappointed. Yeah, normally before a contest, you know, I’m training up to three days before. I do like up to an hour a day of poses, the postures of the poses, so that everything is perfect on a stage, and it’s very exhausting, and a pro show, you’re up there for a couple of hours, and I mean, probably if nobody, if somebody hasn’t done it before, you look at these bodybuilders on stage, and they’re standing there like this, or they’re doing the poses, and that might look pretty easy, but you’re tensing every muscle in your body and holding it in this posture and trying to look like you know, if I didn’t smell much, obviously, was known not to smile, but anyway, looking confident, and it’s hard work, and if you don’t prepare for that, man, I was always there.

35:11 Maybe in ’97 you see a little flakiness, but I was always there. Even if I was at the back of the row, I’ll be standing there, I’ll be holding that posture. I’d be lying, do this all day if you want, like, you know, and other guys that we’ve been over, wiping her face, is at our drinking water. Yeah, gasping for air, so it’s another little advantage I have, and I wasn’t able to train, I wasn’t able to even pause. I thought, by posing, are squeezed too hard.

35:35 I know what’s gonna happen here, man, so just felt like a kitten, not a lion, going in there. So yeah, that was, you know, well, then it’s another challenge. Maybe things were like too easy for me with that there. So universe decides that all you do with this thing, man, you know, and you’ve done it for six years as well. I mean, yeah, if that injury hadn’t happened, would you’ve had a couple years left in you, or were you also, you know, what it’s like getting ready for ’97?

36:00 I distinctly remember this. I distinctly remember this. I start to feel uncomfortable, somehow, like, why am I feeling uncomfortable? Because it feels like Groundhog Day, man. I feel like I’ve been doing this for too long, and we were starting to feel it.

36:16 Started to feel it. I started to feel like this now is becoming a job, not a passion, slash, and a job is becoming a job, and I feel like, maybe I don’t want to do this anymore. Maybe, and what am I gonna do if I’m not gonna do this? So to answer your question, if it had not got injured, would I had done another one? I don’t know.

36:39 I don’t know, but I would have been more involved. If I didn’t compete, I could carry on like doing guest appearances and preventing my physique and all that and being very involved, whereas with the injury I don’t feel like I wanted to. Even after I had the surgery and everything, got back, I couldn’t lift properly. Like, this side was, now I had a shoulder injury, I had a bicep injury, and now a tricep injury, all on the same side, which created a great imbalance with stress.

37:08 So I was just, I had to be honest with myself, Lane, you can’t even lift properly here, you know? So you will not be able to be as good as you were before. Logically, you cannot. Yeah, and you’re competing against the best in the world. You can’t do that being less than your best and not able to train or anything.

37:26 So that was it, man, boom, finished. I didn’t do any guest appearances, because they thought, you know, I’m not happy with the way I look, and I can’t train properly. So it’s like a dramatic exit, and one that was not in control. Which is which was hard, because thrown at McCurry. I was strategizing, planning, doing what I wanted to do, the way I wanted to do it, and because I was number one, I could do that, you know.

37:52 I remember Joe Weider coming to one of the photoshoots, and they wanted to do a Muscle & Fitness cover. Muscle & Fitness is more mainstream, more commercial, so normally it was a guy and a woman, you know, and a pleasant pose and smiling and everything. And he’s coming to studio, which I remember asking him, like, Joey, does, like, multi-millionaire, at that point, you know, I can do anything I want. Any idea why you come here, man, to this studio? And I said, if I was you, I want to be coming here now.

38:24 I’ve been on a beach. I’ve been doing this or whatever. He’s like, because I love it, you know? This is my passion, and if I stop doing it, I’m just gonna wither away, you know. So, all right, so that was an interesting conversation with somebody that was very successful and still doing, you know.

38:41 He didn’t need to be there. Somebody else could be there, but he wanted to be there, and he’s like, Dorian, smile, you’ve got a smile. The ledian at this strange accident, which I’m not very good at doing. People can do much better than me, and I couldn’t smile, man. Why?

38:58 Why are you smiling? Because I couldn’t. I was another actor. I couldn’t. I couldn’t make the smile.

39:03 Okay, now look, I’m smiling. If someone puts a camera in front of me now, smile, but I’m much more relaxed. Puss, and then I was so intense, you know, and I don’t want to be there doing that photo shoot. I wanted to go back and train, and I didn’t want to be there, man, but it’s part of the industry, and in the end, Jo the waiter just said, I’d just let him do what he wants. Like, I think that his policy with me in the end, because nobody could really manipulate with me or steer me.

39:27 I just, too stubborn. I wouldn’t do it, so I mean, if you’re number 10, maybe it’s a hard time doing that, but if you’re number 1, I got away with it, fortunately, and did this start kind of this, this blood-and-guts idea, then, to, like, the way that you portrayed yourself in media? This guy, the black and white. Yeah, and I hated smiling for photos, so I was good at doing a, you know, a moody, tough-looking guy, which it’s not really me if people know me, but it was an image, and it was with the physique and everything.

40:01 It fitted, and it was, you know, I could do that, so what people loved, that they bought into that, and they’re like, so I didn’t do any more Muscle & Fitness. I only done one. If anyone looks for it, you can see my best attempt at a smile. If I see the corner of my lips coming up a little bit with this skinny little model girl that was with. So after that, it was like, Dorian’s a Flex guy.

40:23 I mean, I don’t know how many covers, a head on Flex, but was a lot, over 20 covers on Flex magazine, which was the hardcore, so they’re like, let Dorian do the hardcore stuff, because we’re not going to get him to do this foo-foo stuff, you know? And then later you put out your own videos, training in the dungeon. Yeah, and that was the blood and guts stuff. Yeah, I’m real glad that I did that now, because even I can look back and say, man, I mean, I’ve got it written down, and all my, my diary is what I did, what weights, what exercises, everything, but to actually visually see it, and me lifting the weights, and now I’m lifting the weights, and how much weights, and all that stuff.

40:57 So I’m glad that we got that in, because that we did that in ’96, so, you know, ’97 was the last year that I was training like that. Hey, I’m so, I’m glad that that’s there for everybody to see, and I’m still super popular, and people write to me all the time, like, this is what they used to pump themselves up before they go in the gym, and especially now, I mean, the kids are going back now. Look what they’re looking at this, and not kind of the guys, what they doing now, and they’re like, this support, this is the back here, man.

41:26 This is for Sue’s inspiring us, you know? For people that haven’t seen it, what does it look like? Well, having guts. I was, I mean, I was always disappointed in the, used to buy the VHS, you know, and watch the guys train, him before the Mr. Olympia, and then this and that, and was always very disappointed, because it seemed to be like staged and pumping, and I’m not getting inspired by this, and I realized what the, the problem was in those days. I mean, you know, to have a film camera and like that, I mean, it would be a proper film company, people, and have film cameras and iPhones and all that stuff.

42:04 So if you want to make your, your VHS, you need to hire a mead company. They need to come and do it, and they want to do it from their point of view, which is technical. They want the correct lighting, they want the correct positioning, they want, take 1, take 2, take 3, and get it all perfect. You know, I don’t want to do that. So I spoke to a friend of mine who was a photographer as well, Kevin Horton, who took the iconic, now black-and-white pictures in the gym.

42:31 Yeah, I said, any man, look, can we, like, rent some equipment or something? In you film, but I want to do it like this. I said, I don’t want no lighting. I said, I wanted to come with a camera. Yeah, and I’m gonna train, and you’re not gonna talk to me, and I’m gonna train exactly the way I always trained.

42:47 I’m gonna be in the zone. I don’t even want to know you’re there. Don’t talk to me, don’t ask me nothing, just film as best as you can, and I want you to capture me and capture the energy, the intensity, and if you can get the weights in as well, so people see how much weight I’m lifting, let’s get that in as well. But apart from that, I mean, angles, lights, that, man, just get him there and let’s do it. So we did that, and watching their, you know, afterwards we’ve gone home and watching it, and I’m like, something doesn’t seem right here.

43:19 I say, hey, coach, like, can I turn off the color and put it in black-and-white? So he did that, and I’m like, yes, that’s it. I remember the movie with Robert De Niro, Raging Bull. I’ve ever seen that movie, called Raging Bull. It’s in black and white, and it just seems so much more atmospheric and real and hardcore, and it’s in black and white, and you see the blood come, and all this, and I that’s the kind of feel that I wanted there.

43:50 So it’s down in the basement, me and my training partner, training away, and it’s just real training, and that is exactly what I did day in, day out. You around there, there was nothing different for the camera or anything like that, so it’s very genuine training. And also, after we filmed it, I was thinking to put some instructional stuff on there, like, you know, do this, do that, do them. I said, no, I don’t need that, man. I mean, just watch it, just look.

44:21 I don’t need to sell you. Control the weight on the negative and do this, and don’t, you know, like, I’m doing it right, so people can see I’m really into, say, anything. So we just left it like that, and I’m sure it’s probably the most popular training video that ever came out of, out of bodybuilding, and still now, what, more than 20 years later. Yeah, and it’s still out there on YouTube. People still making clips, and they get some London rulers from Joe Rogan, and some blood and guts, and they make these little inspirational videos.

44:54 It’s all over the internet now. They’re viral. So, yeah, I’m really glad that I got all that on there. There’s a couple of things that I was, you know, slight shoulder injury and stuff, so I changed some of the stuff around a little bit for maybe a year or two before, but 95% of my training that got me to Mr. Olympia was in that, in that VHS as it was, and DVD and everything. And when people watch those, they see a man who’s, what do they see?

45:24 Is it, you’re not possessed, but you’re just so in this zone. You’re just like a man doing work. I don’t know what, what, where are you? I mean, I’m in a zone. I’m in the Bob Alton, so I still can do it.

45:37 People comment if I’m training somebody in the gym now, I’m in the same zone. I’m with them as me and you and the gym, Bryant, this, there’s nothing here. There’s me and you and the weights. Let’s do it, and I created this bubble around me, and people can walk in a gym that know me, and they can’t even catch my eye. I don’t even know they’re there until after there’s a, like, hey, I lack in a bubble.

45:59 So I creates a bubble, and there was not a lot of people in the gym when I was there. There was my own gym, so we used to go in the morning. I mean, my seeing, funny now. Now the gyms are open, like, from 5:00 in the morning or six, or even 24 hours. We used to open at midday, twelve o’clock till 8:00 in the evening, and that was, it was kind of average.

46:17 It was okay. So I used to go train, and then 10:30, 11 o’clock in the morning, so by the time people coming in for the twelve o’clock, I was pretty much wrapped up, so I had the gym to myself, and I’d be totally focused before I got there. Tunnel vision. I’ve already visualized what I’m going to do, which exercise, which order, which clothes I’m going to wear, and visualize myself on a bench lifting. A look at my training journal last week, I did X amount for seven reps, so that’s today’s goal.

46:47 Beat that, get eight reps. That’s the goal, so I got a goal very firm in my mind when I’m going there, which is important. Go in the gym and have no goal and just wander around, you’re probably not gonna get very far. And then I got this energy that was almost like violence, you know? Probably I used a lot of anger that I had in me from my childhood, and so on.

47:14 I don’t know, but instead of it going all over the place, yeah, in people’s faces and this and that, and court create some problems for me and everybody else, it was all internalized, and then it was into those sets, into those weights. So in between sets you see me, like, almost something like pacing up and down, like an animal, like I’m, but it was controlled aggression. I didn’t make a lot of noise. It was like inside, like a fire, and I just put all that into the workout.

47:43 So pretty calm by the time I got home, and like, and I didn’t want to rip anyone’s head off or anything. It was like all out in the gym. So in the hour, horrible for me, are you at the hour before you go in there, are you getting into the mental zone? Are you bringing back that channeling that anger? The anger thing was not something, it’s been, was not probably more conscious of now than I was then.

48:04 I just, then I just called it focus and energy, but I was using probably some negative emotions, but not negative for me. They could have been, but I was getting them out, so now they’re not negative anymore. They’re becoming, it’s like an alchemy. You’re changing that negative things, the traumas, the things you’re not happy with, which most of the time they’re very deep anyway. They’re deep in, on the surface that you can recognize them.

48:26 They’re deep down, and you, like, you like pulling it out. So yeah, before I drove to the gym I used to sit down in a quiet space in my house and go through my journals, see what I’ve done, what’s the goals, how important is this to you? Is it more important than the temporary discomfort or fear, you might have, a getting under this weight, or whatever? Yes, absolutely. So affirm this in my mind, exactly what I’m gonna do when I go to the gym.

48:54 I get there. I’d see my training partner, hey, what’s up, let’s go. No, oh, how was with the Wi-Fi? What happened last night? Did you see this on TV?

49:05 And I’m not sure. Yeah, after the workout, yeah, we used to do that, hang around with the guys, you know, out in the gym. It’s very male, natural environment, especially then. I mean, it was very, I don’t know. There was just a couple of brave girls that used to come down to the gym because they wanted to train properly, and they would have, no, I can, like, Rosamma, die ass, hanging out and everything right now, which is, that’s nice to look at, but don’t need the distraction.

49:30 So it’ll be a few girls there sometimes, but mainly was just guys, and I’m very, you know, it was very much our place. People are scared to come down there, because you’ve got to go down this narrow stairs, like going down, descending into hell or something, and they just hear this noises and weights, and a lot of people wouldn’t even go there. They’re like, no, I can’t go there, man. I mean, it was it was a bit of an illusion, because once you got there, I’d be alright, but it was a pretty scary place and not very friendly, because I didn’t give a about the gym making money.

49:57 Making money, be Mr. Olympia, and this is my place where I train. If you want to come and train here and pay your fees, very welcome to, but don’t expect a reception committee or nothing. Like, you might get a grunt from the guy behind the counter, I know. So yeah, that was, the gym became my, and the gym had an amazing atmosphere, because of all that. Like, people used to walk down there and feel, you know, this, train, man.

50:26 I mean, there was anything else to do there anyway. There was a table with a couple of chairs, of craft, a training on your protein or something, and a little counter. The rest was just in a changing room with a shower that works sometimes, in a toilet with no seat on, and we had actually mushrooms growing out of the wall, and everything, but it was great. We’re, you know, the, we loved it like that. We didn’t want this nice place to go to.

50:48 It’s about work, it’s about sweat. It’s not nice, you know? It’s not shiny, it’s not cosmetic. It’s work, man. You know, and I came from a working-class background, worked on, I worked in a slaughterhouse, I worked on construction things.

51:00 I mean, you get dirtiest work, man, so we’re used to that stuff. So yeah, it was a very special place. Unfortunately, it’s no longer there. The buildings there, but the gym’s not there. It’s relocated to a location.

51:14 But yeah, people used to comment, come down there, and I’m like, yeah, I’ve done that, I’ve done that. They’re not embedded this place, like 10 years of super hardcore training. So people felt that your energy with it, yeah, and they used to say, like, if you go away from the gym for a few weeks, it starts down, and your level starts dropping down, and then when you come back again, it’s like warm. So it was a very special place for me, and even a lot of people to this day, they’re like, man, that was just some special place, and peered in overtime, that some time, somehow, it’s inevitable they had to close, because you can’t preserve that.

51:49 You know, there’s a certain time and atmosphere, and nothing lasts forever, so you’re trying to preserve something that doesn’t really exist so much anymore. So, you know, what’s hard for me, it was a shame that had to go, but a lot of problems with the place, in the building and the landlord and everything. In the end, it was just like everything’s telling me this, just time to move on from this. Yeah, there’s a shame, but it’s all preserved in pictures and video and everything.

52:15 You mentioned the trauma. Do you think trauma is stored inside of us physically? Yes, absolutely. What happened to you when you came to do yoga with me? Started crying.

52:25 Yeah, where, where’s the client coming from? Where did that come from? Because you’ve stretched out all these muscles, you’ve stretched, you moved, and something has been released, apparently, with a lot of trauma and stress in us, so us, which normally doesn’t get stretched, or sitting down a lot of time. So within yoga is stretching this area, the, so as, and everything. So I think things do get released, and it happens.

52:47 It hasn’t happened to me now lately. What the savasana, we call it, at the end, you know, where you lie down, I call it a corpse pose. You’re lying there at the end of the session, it’s like a meditation, and I came out of that a couple of times. I myself, I was crying, and I didn’t exactly know why, but I felt a very strong feminine presence, as if I needed more of that, because I’ve just been too male and stiff and rigid and macho and weights and everything, and yoga is the opposite of that, so it was good for me, and definitely released some stuff.

53:26 I don’t do it now, because maybe most of it’s come out, but I think it’s an ongoing thing, man. Once you start getting into this world and being interested in this spirit, spirituality of life, I think a lot of people, and I think I used to think this is like, people are into this, everything’s great in their life, and they just sit there, and it’s like, whoa, and everything’s great. Actually, when you start digging into it, you know, sometimes it’s tough.

53:53 It’s work. It’s trauma, and a lot of times people just, just rather not deal with it, and keep it buried. So, the same thing with the ayahuasca ceremonies. People maybe get the wrong idea about that, but when you go there, they actually call it work. You know, you’re coming here to do work, man.

54:11 This is not fun. This is not recreational. This is work. This is going deep inside yourself and in your soul and looking at yourself and finding things out, and get in the mat, and just trying to, I don’t know if this is even make sense, to be a better person, but it’s not being a better person. It’s just, you know, maybe getting closer to the truth, closer to what you really are, and more away from the illusion, and so on.

54:37 So yeah, it’s following the spiritual path. It’s now, it’s not always easy. I found a lot of my childhood traumas came up in the Ironman race, and I had a lot of flashbacks, and I sometimes would be running with tears in my eyes, and a lot of stuff came up. I’ll be on the story and UV and beryllium, and and I’m wondering if, if, and I could see a lot of me and my childhood traumas. You know, I was wondering if you think your personality and all of your Mr. Olympia titles were because of childhood traumas, and your father died when you were young.

55:13 I mean, if that stuff there, or do you ever go back to try to unpeaceful? Think, well, if there was a Dorian who had a nice, stable family and, you know, support and encouragement and a pathway from that into this career or that career or this and that, we’re during Ace the bodybuilder exist? No, I don’t think so, man. I mean, I put myself through some pain, and I needed fuel for that from somewhere. I didn’t know at the time.

55:44 I mean, most of this stuff is in a subconscious anyway. Subconscious is controlling a lot, but you can’t see it. You don’t know it’s there, and sometimes something like this, maybe you’re in an extreme state of exhaustion while you’re training, and then you’re doing this Ironman, and something opens up because of that, and it starts coming out, and you didn’t even know it was there. And you know, I’m still working on that, but I often thought that, like, you know, should I be mad with my parents for, like, doing what I consider to be a not a great job there?

56:18 My father died at 13, so, I mean, in a control of that, but I felt like, you just left me here, like, at 13. So I’m sure I used a lot of that, and I’m sure I felt like a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, or maybe not a little bit, like a big chip on my shoulder. I need to prove something here to people, that, you know, I’m somebody that I can do something. And it’s all that drive, you know, it’s got to come from somewhere, then. Because you felt like you came from nothing.

56:48 I came from nothing. I felt like nobody gave a damn about me. Nobody’s trying to help me, and parents weren’t very attentive, not a lot of us. I mean, my father died at 13, and up until then my life was fairly stable, but we weren’t, we never did anything as a family. I didn’t see my dad do much, but at least there was a unit there, a mom, a dad, and some stability.

57:10 When my dad died, everything just got turned upside down, and I felt like nobody was considering my position or even really discussing the situation with me, so I couldn’t wait to grow up. I had a conversation with my daughter, which was really nice, you know. One time I think she was just 17. Now I think she was about 12 or 13, and she’s like, Dad, I never want to grow up. I want to stay like this.

57:31 If I could, like, why is that? Then she’s like, yeah, because when you grow up, there’s all kind of responsibilities and things you got to deal with, like, you know, jobs and bills and all this stuff. She said, I’m just free, unlike them, you know, so happy and everything, being like this age. I’m like, wow, that’s amazing to hear, because when I was your age, all I wanted to do is grow up, yeah, so I can get control on my own life, because everyone’s like, I feel like they’re letting me down.

57:58 So maybe that’s also why I was attracted to bodybuilding, because it was a very individual, and I always kept it like that. I didn’t have a coach. I didn’t have anything. I worked everything out myself. I did the work myself.

58:09 It did everything myself. Win or lose, stand to me. Of course, you’ve got people that support you and everything, but really you’ve got to do it yourself, and it’s not a team effort. And I felt like that in life, like I’m here alone. I’ve got a fight.

58:21 I got to prove myself here, so I give myself no time to relax. Now I’m thinking, hey, man, that’s, you know, the two voices I got sometimes when I want to chill out and not do what I maybe was setting out to do initially. Come on, man, give yourself some slack, because you did do all that other stuff, you know. So sometimes I do get a bit lazy, allow myself to, you know, do you ever. It’s interesting.

58:45 Sorry, Tombs Rob. Brian, it was interesting, anyway. I know the story, Flex Wheeler and Kevin Levrone. I think Kevin lost both of his parents. My name is Young, and Flex comes from a, you know, broken family background.

59:03 I think with just the mom was there, no thang. So three of us had kind of a little bit of traumatic childhoods, and we’re all like, you know, top three in bodybuilding in the ’90s. So, so interesting that maybe all three of us driven from somewhere, from the childhood. I think there’s so much stuff comes from your childhood, and that’s why you got to go back sometimes. Yeah, and look at it, you know, and then how do you get your head around that?

59:29 If you’re raising your own kids, try to not make the mistakes that I feel that my parents made. But there’s only, they won’t become great. That’s something, no, I think there’s many ways to become great, but bodybuilding is a very extreme pursuit. Let’s say there’s lots of things in life that don’t require that absolute you know, dedication and anger and drive, if you like. I think sports is one way that could be an advantage, but there’s other things in life.

1:00:03 My daughter wants to be a photographer, so she don’t need to, you know, use anger and trauma as a fuel for that. She needs the support. She was here today with me, and so come with your media guys and everything. So it’s great that she’s getting introduced to that world through, through her dad, you know? I’m giving her like opening doors, which I would like if my parents had done that, but if they had done that, maybe I would be down a different career that was more comfortable, and we wouldn’t have seen Dorian the bodybuilder, so I’m not angry with my parents or anything.

1:00:38 I’m like, almost like, thanks for that, because without that, I wouldn’t be who I am today. I wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you. I wouldn’t have guys coming up to me at Expo, saying, Dorian, you saved my life, you changed my life. I get this all the time, and people like, I changed my career because I heard you. You know, you’ve been able to change, so I was inspired.

1:01:01 I changed my career. I changed the location where I live. I was stuck. I wasn’t happy, and I realized I can change. So none of that would have happened if Dorian wasn’t a bodybuilder, because I wouldn’t be sitting here, because you were talking to me initially, because I was six times Mr. Olympia.

1:01:15 That’s why I came on the show in the first place, right? So I think I have to be grateful that everything that happened brought me to what’s going on now. Tell me about this spiritual side. This is this idea that there’s energy out there. I mean, it’s not something we expect to hear from a guy from Birmingham.

1:01:34 We grew up on a farm, you know. A lot of times, you know, we only acknowledge these five senses and the scientific way of doing things, and yet more and more, you were always talking about energy, and, and I’m talking about it more now, but most of us don’t recognize it as something that’s real, right? Because we’re taught it’s not real and it’s not tangible. Well, we were, where mind-controlled from as soon as you put an end to a school. As soon as you put into a school, in a rigid structure, in a rigid way, it’s more like conditioning, and you’re only getting a certain information, not, you know, talking to Watts or trying away here, and we’re like, at school, why don’t they teach about money?

1:02:17 What is it? Where does it come from? How do you work with it? What is it? How do you do this?

1:02:21 How do you do that? I mean, that would be useful, right? That would be practical in this world. Wow. Why don’t talk about spirituality and, and all these things?

1:02:29 Which is, don’t talk about that. They try to put you in a rigid box. Even like, you must wear a uniform to go to school. You’re all going to dress the same, because you’re all going to be coming out here on a production line, like we’re creating worker ants here, but we don’t need to think too much. You need to know enough to do your role in society, to do your job, and I need to know more than that.

1:02:51 Yeah, so it’s all purposeful, all this stuff. I think it’s something I always was aware of, because of the training. I knew it was something more there, then, you know, there was something there, which are surprising, because you, some people would look at training as just a physical thing. No, not at all, and you know, I think it’s kind of spiritual when you go to a place that’s very, very uncomfortable, you go into zones, and you do things, and things change.

1:03:17 Sometimes I couldn’t hear things. I would just, like, black out, like I’m going to a zone. Okay, training plan is screaming at me, but can I hardly hear it? Really, you know? So I go into different zones when I was training.

1:03:28 That happened to me when I was very young, running actually, so it’s something I was aware of, but still, I was pretty much like you, know, I believe what I see and touch, man, and like, you know, all that mumbo jumbo stuff. I don’t get too deep into that, but I was kind of aware of it. I think it was more after I retired, and a lot of stuff went on that was, you know, made me question a lot of things, and I started looking into it, and it’s been a gradual process.

1:03:51 I mean, when I came here, it was 2013, so I had already been retired for 16 years. Yeah, and I was honored, you know, I was starting on the journey. I think when I first came here, through the psychedelics and stuff, just to open a hole, like, wow, it was like this good analogy I heard somewhere. So I’m always, if I hear things and I pick them up, I’ll use them myself. I don’t claim that they’re mine, but I heard this one time, I remember who said it, but imagine that you’re in this, this box, yeah, of a world, and around is a big wall, and all you know is what’s inside this wall, in this box, yeah, and that’s it.

1:04:33 That’s your reality. That’s all that exists in your world right now. You’ve got a trampoline, and a jump on a trampoline, and you bounce on the trampoline, and you see over the wall, and this and make this tons. That is just what the, is that, look at all this out there. That’s what I see.

1:04:51 Psychedelics, say, like, you know, you just bounced out, and you’ve seen it, and now you’ve changed your whole perspective, your whole way of thinking. And it’s not a quick fix, either. It’s not like you’re gonna do ayahuasca or an acid trip or something, and your whole life is going to change, but you’re gonna know there’s more out there now. What do you want to do about that? You want to pursue it more?

1:05:11 You want to, you know, you want to work on that aspect more. Most people do. So then that led me to being interested in meditation and so on, and I’m still working on it, man. I’m still like trying to get control on things. Sometimes I get stressed and I lose control, you know, and that frustrates me still.

1:05:32 So you know, you can have amazing visions and things that, you know, there’s more out there, but it still can’t control you, you know, your, your mind and your life and everything. Then that’s something I’ve got to work on, so that’s something I’m still working on, tonight, not react negatively to situations when they come along, and so on. So I’m still a student, man. You know, but maybe I’m a one-step-ahead of other people, and I’m saying, hey, it’s this way.

1:05:57 That’s all I’m trying to do here. You know, I’m not trying to sit up here and be a guru or anything. Maybe when I’m 70 or 80, oh, I might be a guru, but not yet. Or maybe we’ll still have to deal with everyday with the challenges. Doing, yeah, I mean, they’re always going to be there.

1:06:11 I think you know, I sort of say often, we look at people. I used to look at professional bodybuilders when I was a kid, when I was a teenager. I’m starting out here, and I think, wow, they just, like, I mean, everything must be perfect in their life. If they’ve got a gym, they go to the beach, everything’s good. Like, when I got there, that’s not the reality, man.

1:06:28 You know, like everybody has issues, problems. I think where you go, same thing with the yoga. I thought all the people in yoga, they’re like, all, and they got all worked out, right? No, you know, often people have a lot of issues. They’re attracted to these things because they know they need to work them out, so that’s not the case either.

1:06:46 And same with the Ironman. You got Ironman, and you realize it’s a lot of recovering alcoholics, drug addicts like me, and people that also need something new to be addicted to. Another challenge, another challenge, another challenge. Well, I think we’re creatures of habit, and maybe we all get, like, some addictions or OCD pathways, but better to make it a positive one than a, than a negative one. You know, you’re gonna get addicted to running, run as high, or, you know, exercise high, right?

1:07:18 Or you get addicted to heroin. You know, which one’s going to be more positive for your life and people around you? In their whole world, it was gonna obviously be the exercise one. Year, so yeah, let’s get addicted to that. You know, I really like that word, but maybe I’m addicted to exercise, but it’s a positive addiction.

1:07:37 I like to exercise. I don’t feel good if I don’t exercise in some way. If it’s yoga, stretching, weights, swimming, I don’t care, man, but I need to be moving. You know, I have to put this quote on my Instagram. Pro life is a movement, and where I got that from, life is movement.

1:07:54 I got that from a book that was written by Eugene Sandow, in I think the 1890s. I mean, Eugene Sandow, I don’t know if you know, but Eugene Sandow is, he was kind of commonly known as the first bodybuilder. He was a Victorian strongman, and a very, was, you know, he performed for the royal family and high society of Victorian society. He had gyms, he had books. It was really a famous guy, Eugene Sandow, and in those days there were strongmen.

1:08:25 You know what strongmen were generally? Big guys, you know, big belly, drink a lot of beer, a strong man. But he had a physique. He had abdominals, he had a really great physique, and the trophy that a gift for the Mr. Olympia is the Sandow trophy. So I got six Eugene Sandow trophies at home.

1:08:43 So he, he wrote a book, and somebody gave me a copy, original copy of the book, and the book is called Life Is Movement, and I read the book, and it’s amazing how advanced their understanding was, even in Victorian times, about, you know, exercise for physical and mental and spiritual wellness, and different diets for this and that. I mean, this is back in 1890, so I use that a lot. Life is movement. So it just doesn’t matter what you do. You’ve got to use your body.

1:09:14 And then I saw the thing by Idol Portal. I mean, it basically saying the same thing. It’s it’s all about movement. Yeah, just move. Yeah, and I see you moving all the time on Instagram.

1:09:24 Yeah, I got to do something, that I’ll stay till too long. Do you think, do you think the body is a tool to get us to the next spiritual level? It can be. I mean, as you know, many roads lead to Rome, as they say, but yet people have done that, and they, right, just deprivation and, you know, 40 days and 40 nights out in the desert, not eating anything, can not drink. In American Indians going in the sweat lodge, and they’re putting themself, or even they used to put hooks and hang themselves upside down on these hooks, to, like, you know, extreme stress and pains.

1:10:00 They have to take themselves into spiritual zones to move out of this dimension a little bit. So, absolutely, it’s been done for thousands of years as a method. There’s many methods, you know. People use plants to to move, if you like, into a zone which we don’t normally, which not normally aware of. It’s not necessary place, because everything’s in the same places here.

1:10:25 What we can’t, can’t see it, we can’t feel it, but it’s there. So yeah, physical stress, I think that’s what those other guys were doing, but I put himself in a sweat lodge or hanging upside down on hooks, or going out into the desert for, like, you know, 40 days and 40 nights. You’ve heard people doing fasting. It’s to move yourself out of the normal zone you’re in, and that’s, that’s one way to do it. Could that be the purpose?

1:10:55 I’d rather take a cup of our scone and hang upside down by hooks, personally, but you know, do you think that’s the purpose of my body? You think, you think we’re here to test its limits, to get us to another spiritual level? I think we’re here, and the body is just a vehicle, right? You know, and we’re here in a pretty tough place for us to be in. I think, you know, in our core, we’re somewhere else as well.

1:11:19 We’re not just physical beings. So this is just like a car. Yeah, but I’m not a car. I’m the driver. This is the car, which at some point will get rusty and just integrate and go back into the ground.

1:11:35 Yeah, but the driver will still be somewhere. So we’re not bound by the body, but I don’t think the body is necessarily, it’s a vehicle. We need to be in this dimension, a physical dimension, to move around and experience things, and that’s what we’re here to experience and to learn. And I feel like before we come here, we kind of know a lot of stuff, but when we come here, if we get amnesia, and we’re trying to find our way back to that source, and that’s that you’re earning that people have, or some people, I don’t know if all people have it, but you know, to find your way back home, wants to connect to something bigger or something like that.

1:12:13 That that drive that I feel I have. You probably have it. A lot of people have it, and they’re looking for something. All alive, and there’s this thing inside. It’s like disconnected or empty, and sometimes people feel a lot of pain from there, and they, you know, let’s move to drugs or alcohol or whatever to try to, like, numb that rather than it’s trying to, like, you know, you’re feeling uncomfortable for real.

1:12:38 You need to move. You need to do something. It is a message here. Listen, a lot of time we don’t listen, so we’re just like, this feel isn’t comfortable, man, like something feels uncomfortable, and I got to kill this. Yeah, but we might be with that pain.

1:12:51 We need to be with it. Yeah, and that’s what in the psychedelic search, you have no choice, you have to be there. Yeah, process it and try to learn and be stressed. And yeah, we’ve got a lot of people who do the ceremonies. They find it maybe, and initially at the point it’s pretty uncomfortable, because if you realize in things you’re facing, things is like a whole year’s, years and years of psychotherapy and one night, men, running through your head, you know, and you’ve got to work that stuff out.

1:13:22 That’s why it’s good, I think. A lot of these, the modern camps, they have integration where you can talk about it afterwards and talk to people, and that’s not the traditional way, because the traditional, iOS, co ways, you go do the ceremony, and then, you know, you kind of go back home, but in the West, our lives are different. If you live in Peru, in a, you know, very rural place, your life and the things you’re exposed to and the challenges, it’s totally different.

1:13:49 So, and a lot of people need afterwards to, like, you know, still process it and talk through it and everything. Yeah, what’s been your history with psychedelics, and what are your plans next? For a second, ah. Why, you know, always been a kind of user and advocate of cannabis, so that was the first thing, and then it’s psychoactive. But no, psychoactive, yeah.

1:14:13 I mean, in a way, and I learned a lot about that, like, that all the negative things that people believe, and even I believed, a lot of them were not founded. I mean, we had a lot of positive effects, so I was already open to this world, if you like, and then somebody introduced me to DMT, which I read about and I wanted to experience, and I’ve talked about that a lot. It just takes you into a totally different zone. So then it’s like me jumping on this trampoline now, so you know, how those should, and almost when I’m there, it’s like you feel like you’ve got all the answers, and there’s nothing to worry about.

1:14:48 There is no debt. There is no beginning and end, and it’s all a bit of a game. We’re playing, heaven with our souls, and we don’t know, and don’t get upset, don’t take it too seriously. Well, then you come back, and you don’t retain all of that. You see a lot of things over than 60 seconds.

1:15:04 Like Dorian said, you literally on the tram plane, and you’re like, oh my gosh, yeah, there’s a lot more happening here than I thought in my narrow band of this eyesight. Yeah, what you’re seeing behind the computer screen that we’re in right now. You know, quantum physicists and scientists and everything that can explain it much deeper than I can, but it’s something that I, I first contemplated about 20 years ago because I read David Icke’s books, and 20 years ago this guy was talking about, we’re living in a holographic kind of construct in universe.

1:15:40 And of course I couldn’t even understand what the guy was saying. I mean, now I understand it, you know, just, if me and you are appearing now on somebody’s computer screen, me and you were not in a computer, right? What is this, zeros and ones and a code and everything that’s creating the, the picture that they’re looking at? And the reality is a bit like that. So when you take psychedelics, very often you see numbers and you see geometric shapes, and so on.

1:16:07 So I think you’re seeing the the construct behind what we normally perceive is made of zeros and ones. And there’s a guy called Professor Gates, I think his name is, and he said that they’ve analyzed reality down to the smallest level, and they said, what do we find? Zeros and ones, and not only that, it’s a computer code, and he say, not only a computer code, a specific computer code that was invented in the 1940s. So that’s a whole nother rabbit hole if you want to go down there, because why are we in a computer code that some guy, remember his name, that he came up with in the 1940s?

1:16:57 Oh yeah, check out Professor Gates if you want to go listen to that story. It’s very interesting. So the DMT showed you something else. I saw that. Yeah, and then the ayahuasca I found more helpful, because I asked, a, contains DMT from the plants, but it’s a lot, much longer experience.

1:17:16 And if you do it properly, you’ll be working with a shaman, somebody that’s, you know, knowledge has been passed down from man to man over the years, how to work with this plant’s energies and how to benefit the people that are doing it the most. So what happens to me, or in my experience, I’ve done a few ayahuasca ceremonies, and you’ll go and you’ll speak to the shaman and you’ll say why you’re there, if you have any psychological problems or physical illness or questions or whatever it is. This is why I’m here, and the guy will look at you and take all that information in and have that in mind during the ceremony whilst you’re in this state, and he’ll be helping you.

1:17:55 Right now I’ve done about, I’ve done three ceremonies with the guy from Peru. He comes to Spain once a year, so I’ve been doing that. And yourself and the London Real team recently went to a camp called Solteira in Costa Rica, right across the Hrickos. I mean, it’s amazing, beautiful place, and I, and I called you and said, hey, Brian, how is this place? Across the Ricker’s, Ukraina, so it’s great, and I saw the facilities and I saw the program, and I said, great man.

1:18:25 I mean, I would like to go out there, I think, because I’ve never experienced ayahuasca in South America, which pretty much is where it comes from. I’ve experienced it in Spain, so I think that might be different, and it’s a different team and everything, so I think that’ll be great, and we talked to them, and they said, yeah, sure, I’ll come out here, and it’ll be great. So I was just going to go out there and do a ceremony, like, you know, and have a bit of time off in Costa Rica, and then the guy from the camp, he called me and said, oh, you know, I got another idea.

1:18:59 I said, what’s that? He said, look, you know, you’ve talked openly about your experiences, and you found it helpful, and other people have been inspired. What do you think about, like, we’ll put a Dorian Yates camp on in Costa Rica for a week? Not that during, we’ll have anything to do with the, you know, the ceremony or anything like that, but I’m, like, a, you know, a figurehead, and people get to do the ceremony. We’re going to be in the camp, and we get to hang out in between and get to chat with Dorian and all this stuff.

1:19:31 So you said you’ve got a lot of people out there, a lot of fans that would want to experience this, and it’s true, because I’ve got people all the time saying, where can I do it? Who can? And I don’t really know what to say, you know? I’m like, I know there’s people out there, and my guy comes once a year, but there’s a lot of people out there now, but I feel like it’s commercialized a bit too much, and so on. So I didn’t really know where to send people or tell them, what, you know, where to go.

1:19:55 And then I saw this facility there, was great. They work with the traditional shamans, but they also work with Western doctors and psychologists, and the integration and everything, so it’s a bit of a combination of Western and traditional approach In a beautiful place. So I say, hey, why not, man? Let’s, let’s put the donates I asked a week on in a Costa Rica, so that’s gonna start on November the 18th. I’m gonna fly in a little early on November the 15th, because Dennis McKenna, who’s like, you know, anyone who since the psychedelics don’t know about Terence McKenna and Dennis McKenna.

1:20:30 They kind of had experts on psychedelics, from probably coming for more, more academic guys, I would say, right, and Western as well, and decades. I mean, these guys, decades of experience of working with psychedelics. So the week before, Dennis is there, so I’m gonna go in a couple of days early and speak with Dennis as well, trying to get some of his experience and wisdom, and so on, and my wife’s coming with it as well, so that’ll be good, because I asked you, I said, how is it with your wife and your family, because sometimes you feel like you’ve had this experience and you had these things, you’ve seen all these things, but you don’t really know how to talk about that, huh?

1:21:16 Like, how can you tell people about no psychedelics perience? It’s like, really, really difficult, and sometimes you think you feel like you’re a bit in your own world, because you got all this information and stuff, this there, but I mean, if you try to tell people, they’ll be like, yeah, okay, you know, you’ve got to do it, right, to really, to really understand it. So I’m glad going to the wife. So the cow is gonna go, and she’s gonna, don’t know, you know, she’s just gonna, she’s gonna give it a go.

1:21:44 Good for her, man. Yeah, that’s amazing. Well, I’m super excited. I think it’s November 18th. Yeah, and again, people can come and join you down there for a week.

1:21:51 It’s at Satara, you know. I can’t say enough great things about Satara. It’s, we went with the crew, yeah, to start filming our next movie called Dissolution, and I spent a week there with Dennis McKenna, who I mean, it just, it doesn’t get much better when it comes to, no, one of the originals of knowledge and practical application of psychedelics. I mean, him and him, and Dennis went down, you know, back, way back in the era, no, man, when this first started, psychedelics, before anyone even knew what, yeah, psychedelics were, right?

1:22:21 I mean, mushrooms and iOS current stuff. I mean, I, I read about ayahuasca and DMT. I think was probably like when I came out of the end of the nineties. I said, but like, nobody really knew what it was, that I mean, you talk to people now, it’s like a lot more people aware of it, but back then, and people in know what that was at all. Actually, my first ayahuasca experience was in Brazil, and it was not good, as I told you on the first show we did.

1:22:47 I didn’t have a good thing to say about how I asked her, but that’s because I did all totally wrong. I mean, you’ve got to approach this thing with respect before you go to the ceremonies. At least what I’ve been advised, and what I usually do, is a week before, I do a preparation, preparing the body, preparing of mine, so there’s no, you know, allowed any kind of thing that could change your thinking, so no alcohol, you know, no, no weed, or there’s also, they put a restriction on sex, because as I say, that it interferes with the process.

1:23:27 So you have no sex for a week before and during the thing and a week afterwards, so that can be tough, but you know, so it’s all for a purpose. Special diet, how, no meat, no sugar, no salt. I’m not sure that everybody takes this approach, but that’s what I’ve been advised by my Peru Peruvian chairman, and I feel that like I feel like I’m showing respect to the process, to the plant, to the shame, and I’ve never really had a what they call a tough experience with the ayahuasca.

1:24:01 It has always just been kind of helpful. Sometimes I vomited, sometimes I don’t. Mail it, you know, but it’s never been really traumatic. I’ve always found it helpful, but even the people that I find it traumatic at the time, and they’re crying, they’re letting a lot of out. They might look like they’re having a terrible time, but if you speak to them a week later, or, you know, a few days later, they’re like, wow, man, that’s like just really, I feel better.

1:24:28 I feel more stronger. I feel more focused. I actually feel like after the ceremony, I feel like my brain is like a computer. They had a lot of in there slowing down the function of the, the computer and the speed of which you can function and think and do and realize and inspire, and after the ayahuasca, for a couple of weeks, I just feel like it’s operating on a different level. It’s like I feel like I know what people going to say before they say it.

1:24:59 I’m just getting with tons of ideas coming in, inspiration. I’m writing things down, I’m doing things, and slowly it merges back into being normal. And I asked Ashaming about that, and he’s a great guy, Guillermo Averill, I think is how you pronounce it, from Peru. Is very respected chairman, but it doesn’t say a lot, but he says a lot. You know, they just look at me in a certain discipline.

1:25:24 What do you mean, you know? In other words, I gave up a lot of things getting ready for this. Yeah, if you want to really continue, we have to continue to give up a lot of things. I mean, another guy that’s training to be a shaman, and he’s been on a special preparation for like a year. I mean, a restricted diet and no sex and everything for a year.

1:25:47 Fortunately, it’s not married, so you know, yeah, is easier. Giving up the things is all part of a preparation for the ceremony, and it does remind you, you know, if you have to have a diet every hour of every day. Yeah, you have to think, oh, I’m preparing. Yeah, and you pick up something, and you think, now I can’t have this, because it’s got sugar in. I mean, not that I eat a lot of crap and sugar, but sometimes I do.

1:26:09 I’m like, some chocolate or a biscuit or something, sometimes, and now I can’t. I might have a beer. I can’t have that. Not a big drinker, but I like a beer in a court in Spain in the hot weather, or I may have a glass of wine with dinner. I like to smoke a joint, usually in the evenings.

1:26:22 All that’s got to stop, and I’m getting ready. I’m getting ready, but it’s good, because it gives me a goal, to, like, you know, to focus on as well. Yeah, I think you’re gonna have a great experience. Again, I, we had an incredible time in Satara. I did three ceremonies.

1:26:36 They really honour the Shipibo traditions. Improve, that’s who our shaman was. They have a beautiful malohkeh, and, you know, everything is, is by-the-book, and again, they have a very fascinating Western integration process on top of that, with the whole book called The Heroes Journal, and amazing team and amazing staff. I can’t say enough about it. So I’m actually a bit jealous that I’m not gonna be going with you, because I just went now, you know, go back again, because I had three heavy ceremonies.

1:27:05 My second one was the most profound experience of my entire life, and it was also very, very difficult experience, home, but again, it was worth it, but stacking those three in a row really makes a difference. Being there in Central South America makes a difference, because there, with the proper shamans, I mean, we had two incredible shamans. I was there with Dennis McKenna. It doesn’t get much better than that. And so I highly encourage people to join you for this thing.

1:27:32 It’s all in a lifetime piece, and, and I think there’s, we’re gonna put a link below, and it’s all taco, but I think there’s a few spaces if people want to join you. It’s gonna be epic, because you’re basically gonna spend a week together. I mean, going through these seasons, so what we’re gonna do, we’re gonna do the ceremonies, which is a very individual experience, which I was, that was my main thing when they contacted me from the camp. I say, look, I’m coming here for myself, to do my own work, to work on myself, so it’s important that that doesn’t get interfered with.

1:28:01 So that was very clear that we do the ceremony, we’re all doing the ceremony. You tend to be in your own little world and work out your own things, but in the day times after that, usually ceremonies in the night, and then you’ll, you know, afterwards hang out and go to bed, and next day you get up, and in the day they have events like hiking and yoga and stuff like that, and I’ll be doing some talks and just generally hanging out, so people that, you know, that have seen me on Joe Rogan or London Real, and they’ve been interested in this, now as a chance to do it at a place, as you say, that’s, that’s tremendous and professional, and that’s the reason I’m going there, because you know you and the London Real team have been there, checked it out, and I read everything.

1:28:42 I’ve spoke to the people. Looks amazing, so if you’re going to do this, I mean, let’s do it properly, and you know, just get to hang out in the daytime with me. I’m not going to be up in my ivory tower. I’m gonna be hanging out with everybody. We have some little talks a couple of times a week, and, you know, have some fun, and I think it’s going to be amazing.

1:29:01 It’s a bit, there’s not a lot of notice for people now, because we’re, what, not away at that, so it’s, you know, enough. It’s not a lot of notice, but, hey, guys, if you’re interested, you want to come there, and me and you can make it. I look forward to seeing there. I think it’s going to be amazing experience, and you know, if you haven’t done before, you will not be the same afterwards, and I say that in a good way. Yeah, and if you want more information, I think, so, tired out CEO has it.

1:29:28 You go to Dorian Yates Social, you can even email us, hello, so long, the real that TB, and we’ll give you the links to join them. But that’s great. I mean, Costa Rica is amazing. It’s incredible country, amazing jungles, and it’s, it’s actually quite, quite an easy flight to get there as well. Well, I’m gonna, I’m going to be staying for a week after with the ceremony, just to, like, travel and look around the place, because it sounds amazing, and I don’t know why.

1:29:50 Well, I’m gonna say it here. I don’t know why, and this might not turn into anything, but I was something calling me from Costa Rica, apart from the ayahuasca ceremony. It was for some reason, it was a place that somebody had said it before, and it’s in my mind, Costa Rica, so I need to go there for some other reason as well, maybe. I don’t know. Let’s see what’s going to transpire when we get there.

1:30:13 And what are you expecting for me? Ceremonies, do you have intentions? Do you have, is there a reason you’re going? I mean, you’re making this decision to go. Yeah, you have an intention.

1:30:22 I still want to. Every time I go, I feel I learned something, and I learned something about myself, and it’s like an onion. You, you’ve taken some layers off the onion, and I’ve done it, and I’ve been benefited from it, and maybe if it was the same scenario in Spain, I might question whether I need to do this anymore, because I’ve done it a couple of times, and I’ve been, and I’ve got messages, but the fact that it’s in such a great place with a new team, everything, like that, it’s attracted me to it, and the chance to bring other people and help them, you know, who maybe if Dorian wasn’t there, they wouldn’t go, or they wouldn’t have heard about it, so there’s that, and personally, for me, there’s just always more to learn.

1:31:08 I think every time I’m learning more, and just I have my personal goals and things that I want to work on, so that’s what I’ll share with the, with the Shaymin, or the whoever we’re going to talk to you before going to the ceremony. So these are the things that I want to work on, and those things are always personal. I think people should kind of keep them to themselves, and between them and the shaman, and my Shaymin from Peru, he always said to the group, as well, and I was there, I was like, it’s not great to talk about this too much to people outside, because they won’t really be able to relate to what you’re saying.

1:31:51 They won’t really understand, and maybe it’ll make you, you know, their skepticism, or their, you know, misunderstanding might affect you in a negative way. So it’s best not to share too much all the time with people when you come away. And I found that, I found for a few days after it’s, I don’t really want to be around a lot of people and a lot, you know, a lot of energy, and it’s another reason I’m staying for a week after the ceremony, so I can kind of, you know, relax a little bit and process before I’m exposed to, you know, everything.

1:32:25 Yeah, I think it’s an important part of the human experience is the psychedelic experience, and you know, you’re gonna go in and learn some things about yourself, and it might be a little uncomfortable, but going out the back end, it’s powerful. It’s not the solution to everything, but I think it can plant seeds of ideas. I think it can show you things you didn’t consider, and you know, I’ve been processing and integrating my experiences for the last four months, and there’s been great, great things and difficult things, you know.

1:32:51 I don’t, but I’m so glad I went, and I like to think that I’ll keep going back every year or two for the rest of my life. Yeah, I think that’s kind of what I’m doing now. Maybe once a year, I’m just like stripping everything out and rethinking things, and as long as I think that it’s helpful, then I’ll keep doing it, but if I feel like I’m not benefiting from this anymore, then I’ve got what I need from it and do something else, but I’m not in that position yet.

1:33:20 It’s important to say you haven’t, you need to work on it afterwards. You know, I’m, you’re still doing yoga. I’m still doing yoga. We do a meditation, so you got, you got to follow up. Here it’s not, it’s not a quick fix, and there’s still some negativity around psychedelics, because they’re drugs, or that’s what people think.

1:33:40 There’s drugs, right? Well, there’s something that can be tremendously beneficial for the individual and for society and everything, so it’s just your perspective, the way you look at things. If I’m having a glass of wine or even a, you know, a whiskey disturbed about this, all right. And moderate amount of alcohol, we can debate. It’s not harmful or whatever, but I mean, alcohol is a pretty harmful drug.

1:34:11 It is a drug, and it’s harmful. Look at society, look at the amount of violence and depression and suicide and everything that’s caused by alcohol. So I think people need to, you know, adjust their view a little bit. This is not, you know, going here just to get up and have a good time, or run away from your problems, or, you know, mask anything. That’s what people do with alcohol and various other substances, which are dulling your senses.

1:34:45 Yeah, they’re darling them. Yeah, you’re cutting yourself off more. This is opening up. It’s opening up to the oneness of the, of the universe, and you will realize that everything is connected, everything, everything, everything, everyone is all connected. Yeah, and I’ll give you more empathy as well for people.

1:35:02 You’ll feel closer to people, because eventually you’ll realize we’re all the same energy having different experiences. You are having the Brian experience, you’re in the Brian car, I’m in the Dorian car, but with the same thing, with the same energy. And I think it’s a great and positive thing. I don’t see any negatives to it, unless you’re playing around with psychedelics in Iran circumstances, because they’re powerful substances, and, you know, if you’re gonna go drop a lot of acid in a party or something like this, you may find yourself in a very bad place.

1:35:36 They’re powerful substances, and powerful for positive transformation, but everything has two sides. So if you’re messing around with it, then yeah, you could have, I’m sure you could have some negative experience. Yeah, but I think anybody who’s hearing this for the first time should just challenge their own views on what is a drug and what is not a drug, and just understand that your whole paradigm was created by the education you get from yeah, from society.

1:36:02 Yeah. Society: beer, alcohol is acceptable, caffeine is acceptable. No, caffeine keeps you, get you up in the morning, get you to work to do your work, and on Friday night, on a weekend, you kind of, alcohol to dull your pain from the work of the week. You know, it’s all about dulling your senses, you know. So, not that I particularly got anything about alcohol.

1:36:27 I mean, as I said, I have a beer or wine. You know, I’m not anti-alcohol or too tall or something, but I know that it can be a very destructive drug, and it’s destroyed in many lives. Many people committed murders under the influence of alcohol, but nobody seems to have a problem with it, because society says it’s okay, it’s acceptable, and maybe society needs to change that. Movie Icarus that came out, did you watch that? It was about kind of the Russian doping scandal, and it’s all, it was just all about how, yeah, the Olympic team has a cold.

1:37:02 It’s called Icarus, and it was written, it was done by a guy that was kind of a cycling aficionado in the States, and he tried to kind of game the cycling system, and he found a guy in charge of the Russian doping agency, and he put him on a whole steroid process, and while the same thing happening, they were trying to get Russia to dope for the whole Olympics, and they later got expelled from the Olympics because of it, but it just showed how widespread this was, this was, and it also kind of demonized Russia, and it made everyone start asking these questions. And something you said when we were first on the show, that it’s something that’s in all sports, I believe. So if you’re a competitive individual in a competitive sport, you’re very driven to do absolutely the best that you can do, and if hormones or whatever can can help you do that, and they’re available to everybody, then they’re gonna do it.

1:37:57 And of course you can do drug testing, but I’m not sure how fair that makes it, because maybe you’ve got one country, or one team, or one individual that is more sophisticated, and which kind of drugs to use and when to use them and how to clear them from the system, and all this kind of stuff, or you got some guy from Africa that doesn’t have any of this information, or somewhere like that, then it becomes even more unfair. So it’s, you know, I was introduced to steroids obviously through bodybuilding, but there had been used in that sport since, I guess, early sixties. So I came in the mid-80s, so it was already ingrained in the sport, and it gives you an advantage of a certain percent, especially in building muscle mass, recovering from the exercise, which is very important in bodybuilding.

1:38:51 So let’s say it gives you 20%. So if everybody stopped taking them, everywhere I went, then the 20%, then it’s still an even field, and the guys that win would still be the guys that are winning. So if there was a world where there was no steroids available, or whatever available, I think that would be great, and it’ll be great for bodybuilding, because nobody then could point the finger and say, hey, look at all these guys, they’re only like that because of using hormones.

1:39:18 Obviously, that the level would drop down. They did do a drug testing, Mr. Olympia, in 1990, and the guys, I think one guy failed, but most of them passed, and they were, but they were down very noticeably, and the fans were not like, I wish saw something better. Before, you know, we don’t really want to see this, and so you know, ticket sales and everything, so they realized that wasn’t going to work in bodybuilding. But I believe if it gives us somebody an advantage, if it’s a sport that requires increased strength, muscle mass, recovery, then people are going to try to get away with what they can get away with, and athletes don’t see it as cheating if everybody else is doing it.

1:40:05 Their honor, even, feel so. That’s just the way it is. And drug testing, yeah, does it make it fair or not? That’s definitely a question there, if you don’t have the sophistication, and, you know, people would still be using them, still clear. I got a story about Ben Johnson, but I don’t know if I can tell it.

1:40:25 Well, maybe I can, because he told me. So him and his doctor, I met them in Canada at a conference there, which was about sports and weight training and injuries, and I was there as a bodybuilder, and Bill Kazmaier was there as a strongman, a powerlifter, and Ben Johnson was there with his doctor, and they had a whole forum on drugs in sport, and so on, and what I was told there. I’m gonna say who told me what I was told there, and was that every runner in that final that Ben Johnson lost his medal and his placing for positive drug tests, every runner tested positive.

1:41:10 That’s what I was taught. I was true enough, that’s why I was told, and CBS were the American TV show that were sponsoring it, and they said, obviously you can’t, you know, they’re gonna destroy the whole thing if we expose this, so just pick one guy and make sure it’s not American. That was a story I was told, and if it’s true or not, but I could definitely believe it. So, you know, Ben Johnson was held up to the world as this bad guy, you know, that cheated to win and everything, but I definitely don’t think that’s the case.

1:41:44 So if you’re all, if you know, if we’re all doing the same thing here, we’re all in the same boat. Still, the guy that wins, it’s gonna be the best, right? And what about fighters, like UFC fighters? Some people say the stakes are higher there. Yeah, well, I don’t know what kind of testing they have in place, and everything, but again, if people can do it, they will.

1:42:11 And I’ve seen some fighters that I don’t know personally, but I know they’re trainers, on, to know people, and I know, and I know for sure they were, and not naming any names, but sometimes you can see guys, they, you know, they put in a lot of muscle size pretty quick, and sometimes they might lose it, and whatever. But yeah, so if it’s going to give you an advantage, then I think people are going to do it. Competitive mindset. How do you feel about testosterone as people get older?

1:42:40 I mean, I know Joe’s pretty open about still having TRT, replacement. It’s more fashionable now in the States. What do you think? It’s funny. I’m working with a doctor now in, in Spain, like a, I don’t know, anti-aging is, is the right word, because we’re going to age, but you know, if you can do it and have a better quality of life, that’s the idea.

1:43:04 And I remember, I think, was our first interview, and I talked about testosterone replacement as you’re getting older and the benefits, and I said I’d talk to a doctor. I think was in England, or I’ve been exposed to the information that there were so many negative health situations that could be rectified by just balancing the male hormone level, which is declining as you get older. And there’s a book called The Ageless Man. It’s by a French doctor, and it was only available in French.

1:43:37 Now they put it into English, so that’s a great book if you want to get that, The Ageless Man. I just read that, a, a French doctor has been working with hormones for decades in France, and all the positive effects that he had achieved. People with diabetes, they had a low testosterone. He put the testosterone into the normal range by giving supplemental testosterone injections or creams or whatever. Diabetes has gone away.

1:44:05 Blood sugar’s normalized, depression, same thing. Arthritis. So many, what we call age-related diseases, can be put right by balancing your hormone levels. And there seems to be no stigma attached to female hormone replacement. It has been going on for how long?

1:44:29 I don’t know, man, like 30 years or more. It’s like, you know, menopause. When you get to menopause and you’re not making the correct hormones, you can replace them, and this, you know, have a better quality of life, basically, and less medical problems. Why not, guys? I mean, if you’re a middle-aged man, or you might not even be a middle-aged, it might be in your thirties.

1:44:52 Some people just have low testosterone. Yeah. If you have low testosterone, you’re gonna have negative health consequences, possibly. If your testosterone is super high, like bodybuilders and powerlifters, you might get negative consequences from that as well, but for optimal health, you need to be in the range, the optimal range, with your hormones. So I’d encourage people to, you know, if you’re over 40, for sure get your testosterone levels checked, your testosterone, not just a testosterone, but your free testosterone, because you get your testosterone checked and it may appear normal.

1:45:32 That’s happened to me one time. I appeared normal, and then I went to this doctor, and it’s like, that’s not that important. We need to see how much free testosterone, because you have testosterone your system, but it could be binded up and taken up by steroid-binding globulin or something like that, so it’s not available to the tissues. And mine was still slightly low. Now I got a, you know, in the, I have real super range of health tests, now, inflammation levels, everything, and everything was looking really good.

1:46:03 Now, obviously, my natural testosterone was affected negatively, because I was taking hormones for bodybuilding, and if you do that, you suppress your own levels, and if you’re doing it for many years, they just don’t bounce back, right? So in my late 30s, my testosterone was low. Most people, it would be like in their forties, or maybe 50s, they start putting on weight, they start feeling sluggish, you’re not sleeping so well, your blood sugar is out of whack, you’re getting joint pains, you know, all the things that we associate with getting old, right?

1:46:34 We expect the body to break down. If there was, your hair getting fat, all these things. Well, I don’t accept that, man. We got it. It doesn’t have to be like that, right?

1:46:43 And if you can just take a shot once every 10 days or 14 days, and now instead of taking 10 pills a day, you’re not taking any, and you’re just taking this shot of testosterone, which is putting your hormones in a, in a, in a good place. You’ve got a better quality life, better health. And what does it cost, man? Well, maybe that’s the problem for the medical system, because it’s cheap. Yeah, it’s cheap, they’ll make any money on it.

1:47:10 Why are they going to encourage you to balance your hormones? You’re not going to take the insulin now. You’re not going to take the cholesterol medicine now. You’re not gonna take the arthritis medicine now. You’re not going to take this and that, and now you’re not going to take the other three drugs that you have to take to counteract the side effects of the first three that you took.

1:47:28 And that’s, you know, that whole spiral that people go down. They end up in the morning taking all this, because they took one thing to balance this, but it’s putting that out of whack, and so on and so on. So it’s interesting. How do you feel about cannabis, and what’s your current relationship with cannabis? I think cannabis is an amazing plant with so many benefits.

1:47:52 I mean, cannabis or hemp, I mean, hemp is the you know, is the plant with non-psychoactive. You can make from hemp, you can make so many things from, from hemp. You can make paper. We don’t need to chop down the trees. You can make fuel.

1:48:08 I mean, Henry Ford, well, people don’t know this. Henry Ford built the first Model T Ford out of hemp. How the whatever plant. How I can build a car out of plant, because he made hempcrete from the hemp, which is stronger and lighter than steel. Doesn’t rust.

1:48:29 He made the whole Model T Ford have a hempcrete. You can build a house out of hemp crete, and it also absorbs CO2 from the atmosphere. He fueled it with hemp ethanol. She built this whole car out of hemp. It would be great for the environment.

1:48:42 What people in control of the banks, the financing, which he needed to produce his cars, are also involved in a steel industry and the petrochemical industry, so they don’t want that to happen. So they said no, you’re gonna have to shelve that and make this. You know, you can make fuel from it. It’s, it’s amazing, but the, the cannabis is amazing for medical benefits. Does it have a negative?

1:49:07 Yes, everything has a negative. People sit around smoking weed all day and don’t want to particularly do anything. Make them procrastinate, and what-have-you. So yeah, there’s a negative effect, but it can be positive as well. Psychologically, it can be positive.

1:49:23 Helps people with information, with depression, with insomnia. Now we’ve got CBD, which is a non-psychoactive extract from cannabis that’s now legally available. I hope to be bringing my own out to the market at some point, and then, you know, we’ve got the THC, which is the psychoactive part of it, and the THC as well. I mean, it’s been proven in a lab. Dr. Sanchez, from, if you’re interested in having things proven in a lab, Dr. Sanchez, from, I think it’s Madrid University, he’s been working with THC for like 20 years, and proven in the laboratory that it destroys cancer cells.

1:50:05 It eats cancer cells. But apart from that, I mean, I’ve seen it in real life. I had friends that had cancer, and they don’t have cancer now, because they took a very strong, not smoking, because you won’t get enough THC, but a very strong oil extract of cannabis. So it has massive, massive medical benefits, but it’s not something you can patent, not something the pharmaceutical companies can make a ton of money from. And some states in the US where they made cannabis now legal, the rate of opioid addiction and problems is dramatically going down.

1:50:42 Of course, instead of taking opioids from the doctor, which people get addicted to, and it’s destructive, they’re just smoking some weed, which is, is harmless. I mean, I got studies up to my eyeballs that I’ve read, so I have a lot of information. They’ve done longevity studies on people that smoke. We’ve compared to control. They live longer, healthier lives.

1:51:02 Even they did a study on pregnant women in Jamaica who smoked heavily during the pregnancy to help with the, you know, the whole process and the pain and everything like that, and they studied the, the babies. So this huge misconception, falsehood, which seems to be pushed more in the UK than anywhere else, that cannabis somehow causes some mental problems or schizophrenia and things like that. So, if a pregnant woman’s inhaling cannabis heavily on a daily basis, as Jamaican pregnant women may do, as I did in this study, and the baby, the placenta is part of your body.

1:51:42 It’s being fed by your blood, so it’s receiving your blood, which is full of THC. The little baby, I’m sure that the brain would be affected more, because very small and delicate. So they studied the development of the babies who came from the ladies that were smoking cannabis during the pregnancy, to see how they progressed against control subjects. They found out that they advanced faster than all other babies. So that’s, you know, pretty much disproves the, you know, the, the brain problem that’s been pushed.

1:52:16 So all this information is coming out, coming out, and I think, I don’t know how long it will take, 10 years, 15 years, and people will look back and say, man, this plant that was just hugely beneficial for everybody from mankind used to be demonized, and they used to think it was bad for you. Can you believe that? That’s what people are gonna say in the future. And, uh, sometimes I’m gonna head a little bit, like with the training and the diet and everything, things I was saying in the ’90s, like scientists were saying it 15, 20 years later from their studies that they did, but I already did my studies.

1:52:53 So hopefully that’ll be the case here. I think I just saw something the other day, like they’re going to allow something on the NHS for people soon. Yeah, and they just made it legal in Canada through days ago or something. I got some messages from friends and kind of, hey, it’s legal here now. But I sometimes, as a downside, you know, we all want it to be legal.

1:53:17 We don’t want anybody to be criminalized for using a plant. There’s a plant that grows from the ground, so I can go to the doctor and get some pharmaceutical. It’s gone through processes, and, you know, I think it’s okay for me, but a plant is growing from the ground, I can’t have it. It’s illegal. People go to prison for that.

1:53:34 Is, it’s ridiculous. So hopefully that’s going to change, but the only thing in Canada, the negative of, is apparently, I could be wrong, but apparently all the cannabis production and all the outlets will be controlled by the government, and so the weed will be covered with pesticides, which you don’t want. Of course, it’ll always be a black market. For people, you know, like, if I want weed, I can find it anywhere, because I know. But, you know, Mrs. Smith and Mr. Smith, that are like, associate marijuana and with drugs and a drug dealer in a corner, and this, on that, they’re going to go to the trusted government outlet and get weed, but maybe it’s not great.

1:54:13 We’ve covered in pesticides now. You know, plants are organic and are much better. So there’s a negative side to it. Well, but generally I think it’s good, because it’s getting accepted. Canada is totally legal.

1:54:26 I don’t know how many states in the US now. I think maybe six or seven states in the U.S. Yeah, you know, so it’s, it’s getting there. People are talking about it, talking, and politicians that are slow on any kind of controversial subject, because nobody wants to be the first, just, you know, sticking in their neck and, like, fight for something like that. What people are curing themselves with, especially with the cannabis oil, but the thing is, where do you get it from, and how do you know what it is, and there’s no control, and you’ve got to know somebody that knows somebody.

1:55:00 And man, if somebody is sick, they should be able to get whatever they need to help themselves. And the problem is, for the pharmaceutical companies and the system, is if you take cannabis oil and cure yourself, they’re gonna lose about, I don’t know, I’ve made $250,000 per patient through the chemotherapy and radiation. All this stuff is around about a quarter of a million per patient, where if they use cannabis oil and my custom cupola ground or something for the whole, whole process, and their body is now healed and healthier.

1:55:36 If you go have a chemo and radiation, even if you get rid of the cancer, now your body, your immune system, is damaged. This, yeah. So it’s temporary. You’re poisoning your whole body, damaging all the cells in the hope that you’ll kill the cancer cells before all you kill all the rest of the cells as well. And afterwards you will come out and you’ll be damaged, so you’ll still be a patient.

1:55:59 They get a 250 grand out of you, and then you’re gonna need some more. Again, I said, I’m, it’s horrible, but this is the reality. This, yeah, follow the money, and you can kind of see what’s happening. Yeah, yeah. When you look at the world today, what do you see?

1:56:16 Is it, does it frustrate you? We seem to have a lot of people that are angry at each other, a lot of division, whether it’s in the States or everywhere. Our got people threatening with weapons and nuclear warheads, and what does Dorian Yates think of all that stuff? It’s very easy to get caught up in that. Yeah, but this is all, this is not accidental.

1:56:39 This is, this is planned. Yeah, this is divide-and-conquer, Christians, Muslims, black or white, a gay-straight, this, that. Yeah, try to put us into camps, because if we’re in camps and we’re fighting each other, this is what the system, this is what the controllers won. They won us at each other’s throat, and that’s why they open up their immigration and everything to cause all this friction between different cultures, and so on, and people get very angry about it, and I know why they’re getting angry, because a lot of time things are not fair.

1:57:15 But there’s a bigger picture here. Yeah, so that’s why I just try to focus on myself, keep myself calm and do what I can to raise my vibe and raise the vibe of anyone that I can touch, because it’s not something that you can beat by going on the street and a fighting. So that’s something you can, you, load weapons up in your house and protect yourself. Yeah, when the vibe changes, yeah, the reality changes. So if you’re gonna get caught up in this, and like in a survival thing, and get your guns, and like these guys are the enemies, these guys are the bad guys, we’re going to fight these guys, and then everything will be all right.

1:57:55 Of course it will. You know, it’s just like putting gasoline on a fire, more negativity, real ways, more negativity. So just try to spread the vibe, the love, you know, and to try to, like, not look at these differences so much that they make so important, about the color of your skin, or which particular version of God you believe in or don’t believe in or whatever. How can we fix all this? You can’t go and fix all of it.

1:58:24 You just got it. Like it’s a bad vibration. Yeah, if we’re all slowly changed, the world will change. The outcome will change, and you know, there’s good people everywhere. Right?

1:58:37 There’s good people in the police, there’s good people in the military, and it’s good people in the media. So I think right now we’ve got two sides, which you know, the young and again, which is growing. Nothing exists without the other. There’s no good without the negative. If you want to call it bad, evil, whatever.

1:58:58 How did the good exist without to reflect on you? You know, if everything was just perfect and good and we’re all sitting in there in light, then we’re not gonna learn anything. So I try to look at it like that, and then everything has a reason. And even the guys that we look at as being bad guys, maybe they’re not really bad guys. Maybe they’re just playing a role, which we need in order to wake up.

1:59:24 Yeah, maybe we will all meet up one day, and I’ll show cans with George Bush and say thanks for that. I like to look at it like that. That isn’t that quite as black-and-white as we will might want to believe, and try to rise above the things. That, yeah, and if you like, one of us. I mean, I used to do this years ago when I was supposed to, first, exposed to David Icke’s information that you had on the show.

1:59:47 I mean, another great guest you had on the show. I mean, I was kind of stressed, man. I was like, yeah, I can see all this now, but what the hell can I do about it? And you’re looking at, and looking at, look in it, and a lot of people that do it as well, and they get kind of depressed, because they’re like, this is so overwhelming, what can we do about this? But there’s good out there as well.

2:00:09 So I think it’s like this at the moment. You know, the world will get better, but we need this negative friction in order to bring out the good in us. If you like, you know, just like in the gym, you don’t, you need resistance. You don’t get anywhere. That resistance in a gym, you need resistance to develop.

2:00:27 Yeah, and that’s life. We need challenges. We need resistance, otherwise we’re just going to sit here, right, with nothing’s gonna change, because there’s no reason to change. Our latest project is called Dissolution, and we’re talking about the human ego and trying to understand what it is, and how does it inform the things that we do? What does that word mean to you?

2:00:48 And you go, I think the ego is, uh, is the construct that you use, that you think you are. I’m Dorian Yates. I’m a male. I’m white. I’m a bodybuilder.

2:01:02 And there’s some that it’s your self-portrait that you’re projecting to the world. Well, it’s just a story. It’s not really you. You know, is just a story, man. We’re all the same thing.

2:01:15 What we feel separated, what for? We’re just this. So I think the ego is that, the projection to the world and to yourself. What do you believe you are, what deep down you’re not? That it’s just a story, a role that you’re playing at the moment.

2:01:31 I’m just trying to play a good role, good, positive role in this, in this game, if you like. So do you think, if we can separate ourselves from that story, then we can maybe look at the bigger picture? I think that’s what we’re trying to do. Yeah, it can’t do it all the time, but trying to take a step back from the ego. And that’s the challenge, Manas.

2:01:53 It’s difficult, you know, and the ego’s not always a negative thing. Like, why would you want to win a competition if you didn’t have an ego? Like, you know, so that the ego helped me to be here now, right? So again, you can’t be too black and white, but I, that’s how I see that. You go, it’s what we think we are, and it can change, right?

2:02:14 I don’t think I am who I thought I was before on the first show. I mean, I look different physically, probably thinking different because of life experiences that I had between then and then, so who I think I am now, and who I perceive myself, and who I project myself to be to the world, has changed since then, and it’ll be different next time we talk, maybe, hopefully. You know, otherwise I wouldn’t have learned anything. So It’s always your ego projections evolving, but I think, so, excited doubts help melt that down a little bit.

2:02:50 Like, you know, just to show shape from the ego a little bit when you’ve been through these experiences. Your perspectives are going to change, and as I said, I think you’ll never be the same, but it will. I’m saying that in a positive way. Mmm. I think even using your body can potentially separate you from that, and other physical processes can do it for a while.

2:03:10 Yeah, ya know what’s Dorian doing in ten years from now? What is your, what’s your life gonna be like? What’s your dangerous time? Like, you know, what? I don’t know exactly, but I would like to be more actively involved in helping, helping people.

2:03:31 Helping. I don’t know exactly what it is, but there may be some facility or something. I got a vague idea, but, you know, the universe will, the pieces will fall into place, I believe, but I may be, like, to have a retreat one time where people can go and get help with their problems, with their addictions, with their psychological problems, because, you know, what I think, we offer, can have them. Yeah, but we’ve been taught it’s not good to talk about them, and we keep it all in ourselves, and we look at other people and we think, wow, he’s cool, his life’s good, why I got all these problems?

2:04:11 You know what? He’s probably looking at you and looking, thinking the same thing, right? What scares you? Ah, you know, it’s not, not having control over things. That scares me a little bit, but I realize you’ve gotta let go of that.

2:04:29 So I gotta, still a tendency to, like, hold on to things when things are getting, you know, again, a bit stressful. So, and I know, I know the answers. You know, I know that that’s not good to do that, and I know if you get a negative thought, it can lead to another one. It can start spiraling, and the same thing with positive. You can build on positive, build on positive.

2:04:51 So I got to catch myself there, so those are the things that I got to work on, and I think it’s good to say that, to say, hey, you know, if you’re tuning in and you’re listening to me, and you know, I still got things to work on. So we all got things to work on and continue to get better and stronger. So that’s something I’m, you know, I’m still working on, being a bit scared to be an out of control, not knowing, not being able to predict, not being able to control the future, and try to, you know, relax and let things flow a little bit more.

2:05:23 And that’s why I’ve been meditating, yoga, and I’m getting there, and I’m still, I’m still working on that. But I suppose things happening to people or losing people close to me, but it’s not something I really think about. I’m not, I don’t believe I’m scared of my own, you know, ego death. Why do you, death, Dorian, expiring at some point, which is inevitable? I really think I’m scared of that sometimes.

2:05:49 I might look toward to it, like, and I, like, up into the other side. It’s pretty cool. So what do you think’s gonna happen when you die? I, I think you’re already there, man. You know, it’s like we think we’re just here and encased in this body, which is having this experience, but my experience with psychedelics tells me I’m already somewhere as well, because I talked to myself, but it’s like, just like talking to my higher self, maybe, it’s the God self, you know.

2:06:18 I don’t feel it separate from me, and sometimes I’m asking questions on that, and then I’m getting the answer from me, but it’s from somewhere else, and but it’s me saying, look, you know, this, man. Oh yeah, but I forgot, you know. So I believe we are already. It’s not like, you know, we see things in very human terms, like what will happen when I die? Will I go somewhere else?

2:06:41 Because you believe you’re here, but we’re like everywhere already. That makes sense. That’s what I feel, and I believe so. I’m already there, man, you know? I’m already there.

2:06:53 Wherever I’m going to be, I’m already there. I’m here to, like, learn things. I’m here to, like, try to generate more light, if that makes sense. I feel that’s my purpose, you know? The inside.

2:07:06 I didn’t feel like that when I was training to be Mr. Olympia. I was I want to win this contest, and I want to be a bodybuilder, and I want to do this and travel the world, and more grounded personal goals, and after I achieve that, go through some trauma, and then I realized, like, when I started doing these shows and affecting people in a positive way all around the world. Yeah, so if you just try this. Yeah, if you’re feeling, like today, because I know you do sometimes, because I do, everyone does, you feel like today, go do something for somebody, do something good, do something nice, see the homeless guy on the street.

2:07:49 Yeah, I’m going in money to give him. Don’t worry, go up to him, looking, eyes, hey, man, how are you? You all right? Like, hello, hello, you’re there. I acknowledge you.

2:08:01 Sometimes that’s enough. We work with the organization in Birmingham called Let’s Feed Brahm, and a great group of people. They’ve got a shelter there. They go out every night in the city centre of Birmingham. They get food from different outlets, Tesco’s, and, listen, now I know what, every night, there are given food to people and everything, and I said, look, now, and every time I come back to Birmingham, it seems to be more homeless people on the street, and it’s really disturbing me, and it’s like, what, the, can we do, you know?

2:08:33 And a guy just said, look, most people walk past these people, because they feel uncomfortable. If you’re embarrassed of it, or they feel like, I gotta go to work, and I got a, you know, why I’m not gonna give me my money, or sitting there, your barman, whatever, for whatever reason it is, they don’t even acknowledge these people. You said, you know what, if you just look at the guy in eyes and say to him, hey, man, you’re right, ruddy, you have it, have a good day, something like that.

2:08:58 That’s often enough just to, you know, just to have a positive effect on that person. So what I’m saying is, just go out and do something to help somebody, simple as that. The homeless guy on the corner that everyone’s ignoring, go say hi to him, you know, do something. It’ll, it’ll come back. It’ll feel better, you know.

2:09:19 If you look at the last six years between us, I mean, we started off, I didn’t know who you were, you came by the studio, and then, you know, the next episode and the movie, now you’re here, you’re going to, so, Tara, for this ayahuasca retreat. And I don’t know, sometimes it’s uncanny, Dorian. It seems like it’s amazing. I mean, you know, it’s like, it’s because we have the same intentions, and I mean, the guests you had on the show means fascinating people for me like to watch and to hear.

2:09:48 That I’m still the most viewed guest on here is amazing, because there’s a lot of people on here I really admire. I look up to them. I feel like I can learn from them. Well, we can all learn from each other, and we have the same intention. I think everyone evolved in London Real, and everyone that comes on a show has a positive intention for, you know, for the world, for the universe, whatever I want to call it, and people are inspired.

2:10:13 People learn from the show, so I’m, you know, very happier than I’m part of it, and I got on board like pretty early on, right, before, you know, for a lot of people know what London Real is, and a lot of people, they know now and they’re tuning in. So nobody’s infallible. Nobody has all their answers, but you get a little bit from this guy here, and a little bit from this guy, and in a little bit, you know, and it’s that’s what I’m trying to do now. You know, Bruce Lee approach, you know, take what’s useful from here, from there, from there, and develop your own path.

2:10:49 Don’t follow me, don’t follow anyone, do their own path, but maybe it’s something coming from me, maybe from this guy, maybe from this guy, maybe from this guy. What for sure, there’s a lot of people on the show that you can be inspired and and learn from. I feel like we’re all on this same journey, just to kind of push the consciousness just a little bit this way. Yes, a little momentum, and it doesn’t take much. You know, it’s momentum, as you say.

2:11:12 There’s the people that came up to me on my stand a few weeks ago and said, you know, holding my hand, looking at my eyes, Dorian, you saved my life. I mean, that changed it. You saved it. That guy’s changed. You think the people around him is gonna be unaffected by his change?

2:11:30 Of course not. It spreads out. Yeah, negativity or positive is the same thing. It, you know, it grows, what’s whatever your feed. So sometimes it can feel frustrating.

2:11:43 That, I mean, what can one person do? But you know, we’re all one person. How about if all the one person started doing something really good, then it’s, it’s like a huge effect, right? Yeah, so that’s, I think, that’s the journey we’re on, and you know, let’s keep doing it, man, as long as people, I keep getting feedback off people that this is really, you know, useful. I keep doing.

2:12:10 If people say, don’t know, if I can get them, boring, now saying the same things and this and that, then maybe not. But if you, if people are taking something from this and it’s inspiring and helping, then let’s keep doing it. Yeah, well, this is just the beginning. I keep thinking that we’re gonna be doing this for the next 50 years. Yeah, and it’s gonna get grayer and longer.

2:12:30 We’ll both be a hundred years old, and we’ll look back at this archive of who we both were. Yeah, and it’ll be just this fascinating 50-year documentary, you know, and hopefully at that point, you know, that point, Dorian, it’s gonna be billions of people that have listened to us. Yeah, and that’s got to be a positive thing, man. I mean, how can you listen to one of these shows by these very inspirational people and not be effective. I have some positive effect on your life.

2:12:56 I think it’s very difficult. So what you’ve got to do is be exposed to the information, Dorian. I’m wishing you all the best in Satara on this incredible, you know, yeah, looking forward to, man. I’ll be like, post some stuff up on my social media when I’m out there, and and so on, so if people can’t make at least the, you know, they’re kind of a little look at where the place looks like and everything, and if it goes well and everything like that, and I’m still feeling this is something that I would like to do.

2:13:26 I’m sure it’ll be something we might do again in the future, or maybe donate son London Real, and you know who knows, man? Yeah, yeah. So the beginning of a journey. Let’s see, it’s a new thing for me, and never been to Costa Rica before, and I haven’t done ayahuasca down in South America, and so on, so it’s another little step for me as well. So yeah, I’m looking forward to this, man.

2:13:51 It’s exciting, something new. Always exciting, or just new, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, in London where we say it’s about the journey. Yeah, and I just want to say to anyone who’s who’s been inspired by something you’ve said today, I just think they should just take some action, you know, and do something with it, you know?

2:14:06 Yeah, I had something positive out there to the collective. Do something positive, man. That’s it. I can just say that, right? Do something positive, and I know it’s hard when you feel you’ve got problems yourself here, but when you go and do something good for somebody else, and doesn’t need to cost anything, man, just a smile, or you know, just give out something positive, man.

2:14:29 It comes back round. comes back round. So you’re helping somebody, but you’re helping yourself as well. So, we got problems. We just tend to focus on these problems and know how the you can help anybody, because I mean, I’ve got all these problems.

2:14:42 Yeah, but maybe just going to help somebody else. So take your focus away from these problems, and then you’ll realize they’re not, not as big, and if you keep focusing on feeding them, they can grow. So people, you know, so I always try to, like, you know, smile, say hello to people, especially people like that. And people, honest, I mean, that’s the hard life, man, on the street, and then everyone’s like treating you like you don’t exist. So that’s what I learned from my experience on the street with it, working with the people, with the homeless people, often.

2:15:15 It’s just like, it’s nice, you make feel somebody feel better, doesn’t, you know, we’ve got a pound or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Just, you know, do something nice, man, and it goes around, comes around. Yeah, transform in this world, one person at a time. Yeah, I’ll come here, man, change the positive to negative to positive. Yeah, I love it.

2:15:35 All right, Dorian, thank you so much, to be continued on this journey. Yeah, thanks for having me on. A game. Oh, my pleasure, and let’s just keep doing this until we go to the next incarnation that we’re on. Let’s do it, man.

2:15:45 All right, thanks. All right, pleasure, Coleman.