Sex, “Shame” and Soul Searching

Full transcript: Sex, “Shame” and Soul Searching on London Real

0:00 Hello and welcome to London Real. My name is Brian Rose and joining me in studio as usual is my main man, Mr. Nick Gabriel. And our guest today is Shame. How are you feeling about Shame?

0:33 Man, so we’re speaking about the movie. Yes, we’re talking about the movie starring my new new lover, Michael Fassbender, and directed by Steve McQueen, just out recently. By the way, we’re going to be spoiling the hell out of this movie. So if you haven’t seen it, hit pause, go watch it, and then play this because it’ll be a lot of fun. And then email us to let us know your thoughts about it as well.

0:58 Yeah, definitely. Before I get to the shame, let me just thank Onnit Labs, makers of Alpha Brain, and now Shroom Tech Sport. We just got it in the mail, like literally Nick walked it up to me, and that’s the the Shroom Tech Sport. It’s with the, what’s the mushroom? You know.

1:16 The quarter step mushroom. I already wanna try that one actually. Yeah, and I’m training hard tonight actually. I got a big kettlebell session. I’m gonna pop some of that and see how that goes.

1:22 Also, we got some Shroom Tech Immune for anyone who’s not training as much. And of course, Alpha Brain, our usual making you feel great every day, making the brain work. Dude, you know, I wish I could be you and just be that dude who can afford to like buy all the new supplements and spend his life going to personal trainers. Like how do I make this happen? You have like 30 bottles of supplements cause I know cause you had me buy them.

1:47 You should plug your supplement as well. But anyways, if you want to get any of these products you go to onit.com and type in London Real and you get 10% off. Also, if people don’t know, if you’re unhappy with a product, all you have to do is tell them that and they’ll refund it. You don’t even have to send it back or anything. So if you don’t like the product or whatever you’re not happy with it, just do that.

2:06 But anyways, check it out. And in the meantime, I’m really curious what Nick has to say about this movie. I’ve been a big fan of the director, Steve McQueen, since his first movie came out, Hunger, which I just gave Nick a copy of and I think he just threw it away. I don’t know what you’re trying to do to me. And I knew this movie was coming out.

2:24 We knew it would be heavy. Nick and I were actually talking about it last week. And I know- I watched the trailer, like I’ve been watching the trailer for about three months now. Oh really? And just the trailer, like I’d watch it and I’d be like, fuck, you know, this is trying to tell me something.

2:36 I watched the trailer actually last night. I’m just getting ready for this because I don’t like to watch trailers before I watch movies because I want to go in not knowing anything. Like in the movie, for example, that girl that was his sister, I didn’t know that was his sister. So it was good not to know that. I thought it was an ex-girlfriend or something that showed up at his house.

2:52 But how long have you been into the movie before you realized there was a sister? Well, there is one point in the movie where he comes home and there’s a woman showering in his bathroom, but I didn’t get it for a while until she was on the phone talking to like a boyfriend saying, I miss you, I miss you, I miss you. Yeah, and yeah, they’re very unclear about it. Yeah, I mean I’d read before that it was a sister And I wish I hadn’t because hearing you say that it’s quite ambiguous because you know when he when he walks in on her showering in His apartment. She just stands there naked. Yeah, and brothers and sisters don’t do that I mean what do they well, I don’t do that with my sister, dude, you know that would take that to the bank Say with me by the way that was Carrie Mulligan her first nude scene and she’s refused to ever do that before But she’s like it just felt right and it was right Um, and, uh, anyways, and maybe we’re getting ahead of ourselves.

3:38 I’m not sure, but, um, you know, that we’re jumping right in the middle, but there’s a, uh, the, the movie, roughly it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s termed as being about a sex addict. And I think I actually disagree with that, but it’s, okay. Interesting. It’s like a 30 something year old kind of dude. I was about to say alpha male dude, but I hate that term now.

3:57 Just like he’s, he’s more sigma than alpha though. Sigma. Okay. I want to hear what that is later. I was going to give him a rough plot.

4:02 He’s in New York city. he’s single and he just seems to be having lots of ambiguous relationships. I’m not quite sure what it is. He’s successful, has a nice apartment, blah, blah, blah. And then his sister shows up. Sounds like a guy I know. Oh my God. Dude, what’s a sigma male, by the way?

4:20 So you know how there’s this spectrum or this classification of males into alpha and beta alpha being the more leader type leader of the pack or the leader of the group the social group and then beta is more the the person subservient to the alpha right but apparently I find out a while back that there’s a third classification that’s used in social theory law which is the Sigma okay and the Sigma is kind of like the lone wolf he kind of operates outside the pack so he’s not above anyone but he’s not beneath anyone either okay and I thought that was kind of cool I think fastbenders character in this movie He’s here. He’s not a leader of men is he so and you know, there’s a one I mean, this boss is such a douchebag in that film. God damn. What a douchebag There’s one scene where how many of those exist on his boss walks in and pats him on the ass Oh, do I miss that dude? I just you could see how Jarring it was for fast for the character because he was like I Think he just hated his boss full stop. Right just couldn’t couldn’t bear to be around him. He was such an idiot You know, I couldn’t believe there’s a point where um, so there’s a point where his sister comes home sissy I think is her name and Brandon is the main character and they go out together with his boss and his boss ends up taking her Home to Brandon’s house and has sex with her. Yeah, well Brandon’s display, right? Yeah Well, Brandon’s in the other room, but I mean, I wouldn’t let anyone do that to my sister in my place

5:41 I mean like how much did he needed his job? Yeah, that’s true. Or is that just I don’t know I guess we learned a lot. I was thinking about that a lot as well. You were yeah And he starts taking his clothes off and I didn’t know what the hell he was gonna do He starts taking his clothes off. I thought he was gonna start touching himself, and I didn’t know what he was gonna do I was like I was a few moments in the movie where I was like

6:03 But um, what were your overall impressions? I know you you sent me a nice text message after you saw it and you said Uh, what was it you said? Fuck you, man It was painful to watch Brian. It was it was really difficult to watch that film. I mean you know, you called me right afterwards and we spoke about a little bit and um, you rarely put the You gave me such an interesting perspective, there’s this one scene in the film where he has that threesome and it was one of the most difficult sex scenes I’ve ever had to watch and you were saying how what it made you feel is how it made you realise that everyone has this animal part of themselves that they’re not very comfortable or happy about and after you had said that I realised that that’s probably why I was uncomfortable when I was watching it because man, it was really, it was bestial.

6:57 That’s the only word I can think of when I’m recalling that scene. Yeah, that’s why I love a movie like that or a director like that, because you make sure as an audience member like participate in the experience. It doesn’t just make you participate. Like I wasn’t thinking, it wasn’t empathy. I wasn’t feeling empathy for him.

7:13 I was feeling not shame in myself, but I just felt like as a human were all these just like savage creatures and we’re all trying, it’s like all fleeting. Like we’re trying to get something, like he was trying to have sex and you see there’s a scene with two other girls and it’s filmed like no other lovemaking scene because in movies they’re usually, it’s either a rape scene or it’s a beautiful sensual scene and it shows like closeups of his face when he’s like having sex with these girls and he’s like, I don’t know what the hell. I don’t even know if I could look at him but it was just like his anger and frustration And he was like, and this is after a night binge of like sexual encounters for him.

7:52 This wasn’t like, and I don’t know. It just, it made me feel like human and I don’t know, vulnerable or I don’t know what it was. Vulnerable is a good one. That’s not the right word though, is it? Man, the thing I find interesting is you said you don’t think it’s about sex addiction or you don’t think his character is sex addict.

8:11 And I agree with you. I was, I mean, I have a few theories, you know, And I guess no one except Steve McQueen or the script writer or the actual fast man who knows what they were trying to portray. But I thought like he seems to me either someone who’s using sex as self-lagulation, you know, I think… To hurt himself, you mean? Yeah, to hurt himself.

8:36 I think like he feels so empty after he’s like had this meaningless sex with these checks and that pain that he’s inflicting on himself is kind of, you know, his sister says to him, one of my favorite lines in the film, she says, we’re not bad people, we just come from a bad place. And there’s some part to the story which was never revealed, like I think they had maybe a bad childhood or something like that. And part of me thinks that maybe every time if I spend it like goes out and fucks a stranger and gets that feeling of just complete disconnection, that that’s his kind of, I don’t know, his way of trying to cleanse himself, it’s maybe some sort of catharsis for him, I’m not sure.

9:16 To cleanse himself or hurt himself. Well, I mean, self-flagellation, it’s my understanding that self-flagellation is a form of catharsis. Was it Martin Luther that did that back in the days? A bunch of weird Christian and religious sects do that, but I mean, self-flagellation doesn’t actually have to just take the form of physical actions that you you inflict upon yourself. I mean, man, I know there’s been periods in my life where I’ve mentally self-flagellated myself like many, many times so it’s just beat yourself up mentally. Yeah. Have you ever experienced that? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Maybe I continue to do it, you know. God, that’s a really interesting thing. And you don’t even know you’re doing it. No, sometimes I know I’m doing it. Okay. Yeah. I remember there was this one, the lowest period in my life.

10:00 I was going through a really difficult relationship and I was in a very, very lonely place and I remember like I’d wake up in the morning and it’s almost as if my mind knew what thought would cause me the most pain and it would just start whipping me with it. From the minute I woke up to the minute I went to sleep, the same thought and I mean that’s actually one of the big reasons I got into meditation is because I realized fuck I have no control over my mind. It’s this thing that’s controlling me and you need to really put it in its place, in its box.

10:31 Wow. Yeah, it was tough. Interesting. I found when I started, when I think when I started trying jujitsu, when I would just go full out rolling with someone, I could get my mind to a place where I wasn’t thinking about my life, you know? And afterwards, it just calmed me the hell down.

10:46 So I understand what you mean with meditation. What did you, I mean, that’s one of my theories is that it was self-legilation. What did you think was, Because there was clearly a flaw in Brandon’s character in the film, or at least that’s the way it seemed to me. What did you think it was? You know, I felt so strange.

11:04 I walked in that movie theater, and I always liked to sit in like the second row really close to the screen, just because no one’s around me, and there was a dude behind me, and I felt like I was almost in a peep show when I was in there, and I’ve actually never been to a peep show where the guys are like, you know, touching themselves in a theater, but I felt kind of like a dirty voyeuristic way from the very beginning, from that shot where he’s laying in bed. And I love that first five minutes, by the way, just the way Steve McQueen does these long, he does these long shots. He does like a four or five minute sequence where you’re staring at something that doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

11:38 And, you know, him walking around naked and his flat and just like, it’s just like raw. But, you know, I knew it was gonna be hard to watch. I felt really uncomfortable at the end when he has his sexual binge. I was just like, I was just like, I could barely watch it, which is rare for me. And afterwards, I didn’t feel very good for a couple hours.

11:59 But still, so my question is, what do you think was the motivation or the flaw that was causing him to have this pretty deviant, I guess you could call it deviant, sexual behavior? Yeah. I think it was interesting because Fassbender just or just had another movie come out that was based on a real character. I forgot the name of the movie. He plays Freud.

12:26 Was that it? Yeah, I think that was it, yeah. A dangerous method, I think it was, yeah. So he plays that. And then this, it was just a screenplay written by Steve McQueen and another woman, Abby something. So there was no backstory. There was just a screenplay. So we just had to stick to it. And they give you little snippets of his past through like something she said.

12:44 She says, well, we’re not bad people. I thought she said we came from a bad place or bad things happen to us? No, she said we’re not bad people, we just come from a bad place. Okay. So you can…

12:56 And the other thing I noticed in the movie was there’s a lot of build up to the sex, but the sex itself is either not shown or shown in a horrible way, and he’s empty afterwards. He feels crappy afterwards. He has a seduction with that woman, the blonde he meets in the bar, that his boss is hitting on at first, and then she picks him up in the car, and then they have this… She was hot, dude. She was hot.

13:15 And then they had this kind of nasty, unfulfilling sex where you don’t see anything beautiful. And I read one review about it, and I think I agree with it, that this movie, it’s almost about greed and almost our consumer society. We want more, more, more. And when we get it, we’re not happy. You know, you want something, you want something, you want something, and when you get it, you’re not satisfied.

13:36 And that’s what he reminded me of. And he was just addicted to something just, I don’t know, So, carnal, you know, that he just couldn’t fulfill it. That’s interesting. Something else I was thinking about, okay, so we’ve got, I mean, I think it could be the self-legilation. I really like that theory, that it’s like, it’s a mirror of the rapid consumerism that affects, especially places like America.

14:02 But another thing I was thinking about is, you know, what McQueen’s, is the word cinematography, the way the film was shot. Yeah, the thing that I really felt that New York City was a very empty, lonely, soulless place when I saw that. And I think that Fassbender, or Brandon’s character, is that he’s not as sex ed if he’s just trying to connect. He’s so lonely, he’s just trying to connect through any fucking method possible, any sexual method possible. And you know that final scene when he walks to the water’s edge and he just breaks down crying?

14:41 Because he’s like, I just cannot connect with anyone. And I mean, I feel, I felt that sometimes in living in a place like London, even though London’s not as intense as New York City, but my big cities are inherently quite lonely places to live. They are, they are. You know, I was watching an interview and McQueen originally wanted to film it in London, but he said that he tried to research and talk to sex addicts, but he said, no one would talk to them in London.

15:07 He’s like, no one would come out and actually say, yeah, I have this problem. So he went to New York and he found some therapists and they put him in touch with some real live sex addicts and they talked to him and he’s like, why don’t we shoot it here? And I was thinking that first scene where he’s on the subway, where he’s eyeing that girl on the subway, it’s just got this empty, lonely New York feeling. You couldn’t film that on the tube because on the tube in London, it wouldn’t feel that rough and raw, I don’t think.

15:29 I just, and I know, and it was a mood of that film that it was just, and I do feel that way about New York for a bit, it is a kind of a lonely, hard city and a hard place to connect. And yeah, I think he was lacking intimacy or something. It’s funny. There was a scene where he went on an actual date. The only day he was in the film.

15:53 Yeah, I want to hear what you think about that. I found it quite interesting because he went, and then ultimately they went to a hotel room and a few scenes later, him and this girl. And this was the only female that he’d ever come close to a kind of connection within the film, besides the sister, obviously. And he couldn’t go through it. I mean, he couldn’t get hard or whatever it was that happened.

16:15 And it shows how he had created this massive gulf between sex and emotion that he just couldn’t cross, which was fascinating. And the strange thing, I think you might have said it to me once, but I think good art causes a lot of self-reflection and introspection. And man, I’ve seen that in myself so many times. It might not be in sex, or it might be in some other thing, but often I cannot pair emotion with events. I have to.

16:45 Events or actions, I guess, is a better way. Can you explain that? Yeah, sometimes I’ll be having an argument with someone, and I’ll feel all these emotions starting to rise, and I’ll just literally like, I’ll try to go into like a meditative state and just focus on my breathing and just completely disconnect or detach all emotional involvement from the interaction I’m having with them. Does that make sense? Yeah.

17:13 And of sex as well, you know, sometimes you meet a girl and you just, like you can’t even look them in the eye. You just, it’s just, it’s like the Japanese, I think in the East it’s quite different. Japanese people look at sex as like another bodily function like eating or going to the toilet. And man, sometimes, for me, sex is like that as well. It’s just something I have to do.

17:31 Do you know what I mean? Does this make sense? Yeah, it does. Have you experienced some of the? I think that’s a, I guess, if you say that, that’s interesting what you say about the east and the west.

17:38 I guess it’s the Judeo-Christian, you know, upbringing of this whole, you know, sexist taboo type thing. Even if you’re not religious, our society is kind of built on that. It’s interesting when you talk about he’s on that date and he’s like not even that guy. He’s not the guy you see the rest of the movie. He’s on the date and he’s not mackin’, he’s not killin’ it, he’s not trying and in the other scenes he’s like, you know, leering at these women and owning these women with his eyes on the sub-blog.

18:07 I didn’t think about that. And in the scene with the date, he’s like, uncomfortable, he almost didn’t go to the date, right? He was late, he was looking outside the window and you’re right, he’s like, he couldn’t separate sex from, or maybe he couldn’t join sex and intimacy. He couldn’t join, yeah, that’s, I didn’t think about it that way, but now that you You mentioned that I’m thinking about, or I’m recalling that scene, yeah, he wasn’t the same person on that date.

18:29 And if you think about how he was around her, this girl, he kind of had some sort of emotional interest in. And then, remember that scene in the bar where the girl walks up to the bar and he is just pure sexual predator. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was almost…

18:45 Very good at it. He was almost schizoid, if you think about it. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s so weird.

18:51 And he went… in the office and then nothing happens at the end and then he grabs her in the office takes her to a hotel room and you see he does like a line of something takes a drink and you can see he’s like okay now I’m in fuck mode now and he’s like going in to do what he normally does and he just can’t do it with this woman because I guess because he had some emotional attachment to her yeah maybe maybe he didn’t even have some emotional attachment I think just the mere possibility that he could find himself liking her okay scared the fuck out of it because they talk about that on the date she’s like what’s the longest relationship you’ve been in and he says four months and he says she says um well you have to work in a really no shit sometimes you have to work in a relationship no she says sometimes you have to give it a try to see if it’s gonna work and he’s like I did give it a try for four months do you think of yourself in that scene? dude I mean my longest relationship was seven years okay so no you’re dodging the question I mean I don’t know what to save right yeah one of the scenes let me just dodge it okay one of the scenes seemed like a personal perfectly rational answer by Michael by the way when he said that four months he’s like yeah I completely understood where he was coming yeah he said some pretty pretty rational things at that at that scene at the table when he was like she was like oh she said she had been married and he

20:11 Was like he wasn’t impressed and she was like oh you don’t believe in marriage or something he’s like yeah I just don’t think it’s realistic and he’s I don’t see the point of it. I just don’t see the point. Yeah. And the more I think about it, I’m just like, I mean, I read a long article last night on marriage and the aggregate statistic or the aggregate of all statistics says that marriage in the US and England has a 13% success rate. 13.

20:36 13% success rate. Wow. That’s the aggregate of a bunch of different statistics. And now failure is characterized or defined by infidelity, divorce. And I think he also put happiness in another, as one of the statistics as well.

20:53 Okay. Then I believe that statistic. And dude, I don’t know, I think for some people, it’s amazing. It’s fucking amazing. I was always that guy, like you’d watch those scenes in a film where, like that film, The Notebook.

21:07 I didn’t see it. Oh, great film. this guy and this girl are madly in love and then a bunch of events transpire which keep them separated and then ultimately in the end they get back together and their love is kindled and I mean did you ever watch that movie um what’s it a Disney movie with all the balloons that picks our movie up oh yeah yeah yeah yeah now you know that scene in the beginning where um it’s like the marriage of him and his wife yeah it’s like five minutes in the beginning and you see his whole life story exactly exactly it’s now what did you think of that It was beautiful.

21:39 It was beautiful. I mean, I cried, dude. The first time I saw that, I cried. I wasn’t weeping uncontrollably. I got you.

21:44 It was really like, yeah, it was a beautiful thing. We all want to believe in that. We all want to believe in that, Brian, but I’m starting to realize that part of growing up and part of being more importantly a man is just facing the harsh realities of life. Just facing the fact that, man, maybe like this flesh that we’re using to experience this physical or this human game. It’s hardwired or it’s encoded with certain desires and urges and impulses and maybe this girl who I find incredibly beautiful and I think that I’m deeply in love with, maybe her pheromones are not going to have that same effect on me in six months or a year or two years, or maybe she’s going to see some other guy who flicks some switch in her brain and causes her to lose attraction for me and go after him and maybe the happily ever after with the white picket fence and 2.2 kids and the swimming pool maybe that’s just a false ideal man what do you what do you think I mean I just I was thinking of my grandparents when you’re talking about that like my mother’s father my grandpa Benedict and my grandma Benedict I mean like you know I visited them and seeing them together in this you know marriage and I mean that was a it was important to see and to grow up around and it would have been the same if I just go to see my grandpa you know and like this whole nurturing family thing was just as a beautiful thing as a child to see growing up. My parents

23:06 Were divorced, so I never saw that with them. So that makes me think it’s an important part of a child’s growth is having a male and a female caregiver. I do believe that’s important. Maybe you can achieve that a different way, you know, or with a village. Hillary Clinton’s book, it takes a village, you know.

23:24 Yeah, I mean, I have a few things to say on what you just said. The first is, I think We live in a different age. I think people are too individualistic now, especially women, and I really do believe that that kind of set up or that kind of relationship from that bygone era kind of required subservience, the woman subservience to the man, and I’m not making a value judgment on that. I’m not saying whether that’s right or wrong, but it seems to me that that’s how it worked best.

23:57 When I saw that movie I thought of Afghanistan where they grabbed the girl at like 13 years of age and maybe she’s traded, maybe I’m saying this wrong but fuck it if I am, and there’s a dowry and then she’s with that man for her life and I was just thinking how that’s so different than what we saw in the movie where there’s a guy in anonymous mail that’s, you know, fucking paying for sex, having anonymous sex, having whatever and just how culturally that probably couldn’t happen in a place that traditional. I mean, sex is a commodity that’s been bought and sold for as long as humans have been on the planet in one way or another. And reminded of one of my favorite, I mean, look, I’ve never used a prostitute, I’d happily admit to it if I had, I just, I’ve never done it.

24:42 Okay. But you should try it and then we’ll talk about it. Yeah. We’ll talk about that on the show. But this…

24:47 Sponsored by Alpha Man. What’s that saying? You don’t pay them to stay, you pay them to leave? Charlie Sheen needs to say and dude sometimes like you know like I’m sure you’ve experienced that you’ll you’ll you’ll have hooked up with a woman and like you just don’t even want to look at her you literally just like afterwards yeah I mean come on I mean is this something you’ve not no no I have experience that okay so I mean like and we’re all taught to believe that okay you grow up and you’ll meet someone who you love forever and like sex is this well this is what I was taught to believe it’s a sex is this beautiful experience It happens between two people and that should only be saved for marriage and that’s bullshit, dude. That’s bullshit There’s many many different routes and paths and ways we can follow in life. True. It’s in all aspects sex being one of them So what may work for the Afghanistani?

25:37 Tribal community probably doesn’t work for the super hedonistic individualist individualistic New York yuppie Community I mean, what are your thoughts? It’s interesting what you’re saying there. I had a thought and it’s gave me Oh, what was I thinking about? You know, you talk about kind of, maybe you meet a girl and just have sex with her and there’s not a lot of emotional, there’s not a lot of feelings with her. And I just find that in my past, the good sex has been with people I have a strong emotional connection with.

26:09 And then just the- That’s so interesting. Yeah, for me, it’s a big deal. And the bad sex or I’m memorable is just with someone I don’t know very well or don’t care about. And more importantly, they don’t care about me. And then for me, it’s like a scale of one to 10.

26:24 It’s that much of a difference for me. I found, I mean, sure emotional connection is cool, but strangely I find that the best sex I’ve ever had has been when I’ve had an intellectual connection with a girl. Interesting. Yeah, I find that interesting. I do find that interesting too.

26:40 Yeah, maybe I think intellectual, I go emotional. Or maybe it becomes emotional once they stimulate you intellectually. But I just find that about that whole date he was on just really fascinating that whole life he led and I was also thinking about like technology you know with all that on-demand porn we have and all that stuff that you know if that if that shaped part of his behavior you know could he have done that 50 years ago I guess he could have found some way to do it but it was just so much easier with you know downloading on his you know there’s that one scene where his sister opens up his laptop and he’d been in the chat live chat room with some naked chick and she sees her on the webcam. She’s like, Oh, who are you? Are you Brandon’s girlfriend? Would you like to lick my titties? And she’s like, What the fuck? Yeah, that was good. What’d you think of her and that whole relationship that the brother sister thing? I mean, you have a sister, I have a sister. It’s it. It’s just, you know, it was, you know, the strangest thing Brian is, I saw so much of myself in that in that character. I mean, good and bad, you know, everyone does. But funny enough, she reminded me so much of my little sister in certain ways. I mean, my little sister isn’t some fucked up dependent chick who doesn’t have a job or anything like that. But you know, we, my sister, our bond is quite similar, you know, we both went

28:01 Through like a very difficult thing with with our parents and the marriage and all. And, and I think, my brother as well, we, those are only people can really, really relate to me about that because of the only people who went through the same thing is just I’m sure, in the same way that you and your brother or the only people can really relate to each other about what you guys went through. I mean, all families are so different and especially families that have conflict like that.

28:25 And it’s such a personal, raw experience, especially for a child that, yeah. And that relationship you have with a brother and sister, it’s like no other relationship because you both watched each other go through all the same things. You could argue your parents don’t know you as well as your sister because your sister Is seen and you guys have both kind of felt the emotions coming from your parents whether it was divorce or drama or whatever And so I’d love how he threw her in the mix So you could you could see him reflected through her because without that girl in the house You wouldn’t be able to see you know, they’re their strained relationship problems with him and stuff like that She was she was pretty much. It’s very she was the merits him right like column You notice how when she hooked up with his boss and then afterwards he was like he was he’s making some judgment on her for it She was just reflecting an aspect of him back at it. Yeah, I thought about that pretty yeah That was that I found that quite interesting just had casual sex didn’t she and that’s what all he’s doing I mean he and he did far worse than she I mean she at least knew the boss through him You know there was some kind of connection She had had a drink with the boss You know as opposed to him who just like meet some stranger in the street and bang them in like 15 minutes Yeah, we all do that don’t we just like you look at someone. I look at them. They’re a fucking this or that

29:42 There’s a there’s a wine store I go to and it has a quote up on the on the wall and it says an Alcoholic is someone who drinks as much as you and you don’t like It’s a great thing, you know, look at that fucking drug addict and you’re like, hmm wait a second Maybe I’ve been a drug addict at one point in my life, but we spoke about it probably on episode one or two of the show but More and more dude whenever someone pisses me off or whenever there’s something about something that bothers me now I’m just asking the question. What is it about? You that this person is reflecting back at you and it’s it’s amazing how often I can identify something and and once you do that All the judgment falls away Interesting so you find yourself hating someone or this one really bothering you and you say dude it happens with you Sometimes you’ll do something that’ll piss me off. Yeah, and then I’ll sit down. I’ll think okay fuck What is this what and I like play it through my mind. I’m probably thinking too much about it And then I’ll say, okay, but I do that also all the time.

30:37 Right. You know what I mean? I was thinking about the other day, like, you know, I went silent on you for like three days and I was just like, if fucking Nick did that, I would fucking never talk to him again. And I’m just being a dick. And I was just like, God, yeah.

30:49 I think very few people can do that. Because you know, most people, you just get in this, like you or hate you, like you or don’t like you, like you or don’t like you. I was talking to someone recently and they were like, yeah, the boss at work, this and that. And, you know, they’re not recognizing my professional ability and they’re not giving the things I’m like it’s just they don’t like you it’s that simple and I’ve been there well you just you like you someone or you don’t like someone and then you can’t make a rational judgment about their qualifications whether they’re good for business and that’s it’s just like and we as humans we make these just decisions like that on someone there’s a there’s a statistic which says we we form an opinion about someone within seven seconds of seeing them based on appearance and then I think we flesh it out based on the interaction we have of verbal means or whatever.

31:35 So yeah, this stuff is pretty primal. It’s just like sex, dude. Like your affinity for certain individuals is kind of, it’s such a primal biological thing over which we have such little control. Yeah, and we can see that in the film. One thing, Fassbender was talking about in an interview, he said, apart from, say, a food addiction, a sex addiction or a sex issue is something that inhibits your whole being.

32:03 Because unlike smoking, you don’t have to smoke to live. You don’t have to smoke crack to live. You don’t have to necessarily gamble to live. So these are things that you acquire as addictions in your life. But to be, for everyone, has sex or has sexual attraction as just being part of life, breathing, eating.

32:19 So to have a dysfunction with that is something that can just really fuck with your whole being. Just like a food addiction can just, can kill you. And I mean, you can see this in the movie. That could have killed him. The one scene we got to talk about it that was really uncomfortable for me to watch is he has this Here’s an argument with his sister where he actually told us to get the fuck out, which I understand that that feeling Dude, if she messed up my apartment like that, I would’ve told my own sister to get the fuck out of there.

32:43 Dude, if she would’ve printed my boss in my place, well that wouldn’t have happened. I would’ve shot them both and then shot myself. But anyways, what was that? Oh, he goes on this binge and hey man, he’s crazy He’s in this one bar and this girl comes up to the bar and he and her boyfriend her big boyfriend’s playing pool And he’s like I’m gonna take you home and I’m gonna do all this crazy shit to you Of course, she’s sitting there listening to him too But uh, and then he goes from there and he’s like, I think he’s just looking for sex or something And and he tries to get into a club But he’s been beaten up by the girl’s boyfriend They don’t want to let him in and then he starts leering this dude across the street and I’m like, oh shit Oh shit. Oh shit and spoiler alert alert then he goes into a gay club and I’m guessing he’s never been to a gay club before and he’s walking in the gay club and I was just like don’t do it don’t do it don’t do it I don’t know why is that me because I’m a homophobic I don’t know because now I think I was noticing that he was hitting rock bottom for his addiction he was like a crackhead stealing his mom’s TV or a junkie trying to shoot a needle into the last remaining vein on their body and he goes into this gay club and picks up a gay guy and they they you know, whatever. And they was they do some stuff. And that was really hard for me to watch. I was just like, Oh, no, no, it was

33:57 Difficult for me as well. And then and then he wasn’t done there. Then he goes on to the threesome with these two girls and, and that the way the movie was shot. I mean, Stephen Queen is he’s a fucking genius, in my opinion, he’s actually it’s the second movie he’s made. He was only second. Yeah, he was a visual artist before I think he designed like visual art. And so then he was like, I’m gonna make a film and he who made Hunger, the movie I gave you, which is about 1981, the hunger strike that the prisoners did in Northern Ireland, Bobby Sands.

34:25 These guys starved themselves to death, and there’s a scene in that movie that I hope you watch in the next couple weeks once you’ve taken a break from Alexander McQueen where they’re putting steaming plates of fresh food next to his bed, and he is wasting away, and Fastbender dropped down to 50 kilos or something scary to play that role, and they’re putting steaming plates of scrambled eggs and bacon next to his bed, and he’s not eating. He’s refusing to eat until he dies. And I was just like, fucking.

34:53 And just the way that he shoots these scenes and like he does these long shots. Like you’re used to watching a movie where two people have a conversation and it’s like shot to you, shot to me, shot to you, shot to me. I mean, I made a short film and so I look at this maybe a little bit more. But he, that scene when he’s on the date with the girl, it’s like all one shot. It’s like an eight minute long shot.

35:13 And it just, it draws you into the film and makes it so real. I mean, even you mentioned it. I found interesting like, I mean, I agree with what you said, those long shots definitely suck you in. Nobody does them. But something that I couldn’t quite figure out, I don’t know if it was the only comic touch in the film and it was intentional, but that weird waiter.

35:34 Oh yeah, that was weird. What was that like? That was weird, you know, that’s, that’s, I’ve had that waiter in New York, you know, I mean, that’s a typical New York waiter, you know, a little too friendly, a little too accommodating. And a little bit ignorant about the wine and the food he was serving as well. Yeah, he poured the wine totally wrong, you know, he poured red wine all the way to the pole in the glass.

35:53 And I mean, that was, it was like a little uncomfortable, wasn’t it? It was strange. Or real, or was he kind of interrupting them? He was interrupting them, wasn’t he? Maybe he was just used to humanized interaction between Brandon and his days.

36:06 Yeah, so it’s not romanticized, it’s like some, yeah, maybe it was genius. It was genius. It rarely fit. I don’t know why that waiter was in that scene, but it worked. and it wouldn’t have been the same without him.

36:17 Yeah, you’re right. There are so many scenes. There’s a scene when he goes running, where he’s running throughout New York. That was incredible. And that was one shot, and he runs like eight blocks or 10 blocks through New York, and it’s one shot, and it was just incredible to watch.

36:29 That was incredible, man. And like little things like that, even if you don’t know, you don’t recognize the cinematography, but it draws you in, doesn’t it? Just that non-cut. And I was actually- I was thinking about that shot, and I was wondering how, they obviously had the camera on. What do you call those things?

36:45 No, they couldn’t have. It must have been in a car. It must have been in a car. It was a vehicle, not a dollar, yeah. But just clearing the traffic and making sure the streets and the sidewalks were free.

36:54 And the extravices and traffic. Yeah, it was incredible. Why do you think about that stuff? You haven’t directed a movie. I did The Green Film, remember, bro.

37:00 Fuck, I didn’t. Yeah. God, man, you never talk about that, you know. Remember, you told me you’ve been on movie sets before, and you don’t talk about that very much. Yeah, I didn’t really dig that much.

37:09 You know what? I’m speaking about movies. Have you ever been to Universal Studios? Yeah, I actually went on the big two VIP tour like a year and a half ago. Tell me if you um Know the thing that blew my mind about Universal Studios is look I grew up in South Africa, right? And my whole a lot of the formation of my psyche and my childhood was was uh Took place around American movies and TV, right? Because that’s just the way it was all over the world I guess pretty much all over the world America exports its culture through media and they make a lot of films There’s 300 million people.

37:40 There’s a lot of money. And they produce a large volume of films and quality films. And I went to Universal Studios for the first time three or four years ago. And when you’re on those weird sets, not for anyone who hasn’t been there, you’ll walk on these, you’ll do this tour and you’ll go to some of these movie sets and you’ll see all these facades, these prefabricated facades of houses and neighborhoods. And you’ll get this weird feeling that you’ve been there before.

38:07 But you haven’t. You’ve seen these on all the sitcoms and TV shows and stuff that you grew up with. Then you’ll go behind the scenes, behind the set of some other movie and the thing that really struck home to me was how fake movies and TV and Hollywood is. I know a lot of the pain in my life, a lot of the delusion and disappointment in my life has come from the fact that I was expecting things to be like they were on TV when I grew up. Really?

38:42 Yeah, for sure. Any examples? Or do you think it’s just a subtleness? Relationships. Okay.

38:47 As we spoke about in the beginning, then that is definitely one of them. You’ve looked at the typical rom-com coming out of Hollywood, and it’s an ugly disheveled dorky beta male, and he’s going out with the hottest fucking girl in the world. And he’s like, I don’t know if I really want to date her. It’s like, dude, this would never happen. Yeah.

39:02 Are you kidding me? It’s true. He cut it rom-com, you know, and yeah, I mean it’s interesting that you that you watch a film and you think about the filmmaking And I don’t think a lot of people do that I think it’s bad sometimes because I’m like wow what a beautiful shot when I should be shattered when I should be watching the movie but um But sometimes I find that my enjoyment of a movie is compromised because I’m trying to like I mean for me It goes really deep. I start thinking about like specific shots and the logistics behind as we’re speaking about the one in New York City but then I’ll think about I wonder like How they did that effect or you join me and then then yeah, the illusion is shattered I wish you could go back to before I knew how and why movies were made and just sit and turn off and vegetate But I can’t I know I know what you mean It’s as I took a course at the London School of sound a six-month course about how to make music and you know Digitally produce it and all that stuff and they said once you take this course You’ll never listen to music the same because you’ll always be like, oh, there’s the backbeat. There’s the treble. There’s the bass Oh, they’re doing this kind of beat Oh, it’s this this many beats per minute and it’s it’s true and it’s true about film because now you you think about all those shots I mean, there’s a shot in the beginning He’s walking around his apartment naked and then he goes and takes a piss and I was thinking how much water did he have to

40:14 Drink how many shots did they do? What’s wrong with you You know that there’s a suicide scene at the end where his sister Um, cuz lets a wrist in the in the bath. Did you also think that she had jumped in front of the tracks? Yes, and that was so smart the way they did that was smart the way they did that There’s a few times where I didn’t know what the fuck was going to happen. Also, when he started taking his clothes off, when they were in the bedroom, I really thought he was going to start, you know, jerking off and I was, I was really going to bother him.

40:39 I thought he was going to jump in and try and join them. Okay. Yeah. When he went for a run, I was really relieved. Yeah, I know me too. And, um, so yeah, when there’s an early scene where she’s standing near the subway and she’s like, she’s always trying to get a mo she’s trying to get an emotional connection with her brother. That’s what she’s doing. She’s doing it. Yeah. So that’s why she stands naked in the, in front of the, the, uh, the shower.

40:59 Because she’s trying to fuck with him and he’s completely annoyed by her but he won’t give her an emotional connection so that’s what she does and so she stands by next to the subway tracks in the beginning I think because she’s just trying to get he’s trying to get attention from him just like a little sister would you know and so there’s a scene where he’s taking the subway home after his night binge and it stops obviously there’s someone and it’s been run over on the tracks and you think it’s got to be her but then you’re thinking okay it’s Steve McQueen you don’t know what the fuck’s gonna happen so he runs home and finds her with a wrist slit and And then he cuts the audio as well. Fucking genius. It was very smart.

41:31 Or it was like some beautiful violin song while she’s sitting there bleeding out. And there was an interview with Carrie Morgan and she had these prosthetic arms put in with tubes to pump blood out of her wrists. And they started filming the scene downstairs when he runs in the building. Cause that’s like a three minute long scene. He runs in the building, he waits for the elevator.

41:50 They watch him up the elevator. He goes down the hall into the apartment and they started pumping the blood out of her veins when she was down in the thing. she said there was no one in the room except some dude in the bathtub pumping the blood in her and they start pumping the blood and for two minutes Brandon’s coming up the thing and then he comes in and she’s got blood all over herself and she said that was the only thing that bothered her in the whole movie she’s like afterwards she started crying when she left the set because she saw what it would be like to be fucking killing yourself you know and then she wakes up in the hospital and she says shithead so she says do it right yeah That’s why I stalk her, so he’s with her in the hospital later and she’s like like and then she looks at him She’s like shithead, but you know that Carrie Mulligan’s character Just think if she wasn’t in the film right? Yeah, you’d think that that Brandon was a complete sociopath, right?

42:39 But she humanizes him you can see he cares about her ultimately. He does care about her I guess he does and that’s does he of course bro I remember when she was when he was trying to like stop stem the blood flow from her wrist Yeah, but was that something any human would do she was distraught man I mean, I think someone who’s just completely, and when he started crying when she was singing that New York song. Yeah. Why was he crying? I don’t know.

43:02 I couldn’t figure it out. That was a powerful scene as well. Do you know what I was thinking? One of the reasons he might have been crying is Mulligan’s character or what was her name? Sissy.

43:15 Sissy was expressing herself in such a way that, and Brandon knew he could never do that and he was maybe forced to see that his life didn’t have any kind of aspect like that to it. It was so clinical and sterile. Do you know what I mean? Whereas as she was singing it was such an emotional, heartfelt rendition of that song. And everyone in the restaurant was completely captivated by her, by her beauty and her talent. And I think fastbanded Brandon just ultimately realized that all he is is this fucking machine. And he pales in insignificance when contrasted against her.

43:52 That’s what I thought. Okay, wow, that’s powerful. I didn’t have time to think about it then. I was just like, okay, I log that he cried and then I just kept moving on with the film. That’s such an interesting scene because she’s singing New York, New York, so start spreading the news.

44:08 But she’s singing it in such a slow way that it’s not necessarily a happy song. These vagabond shoes. And she’s singing it like acapello and there’s no cut. It’s like all on her and there’s no music. I mean, that was not the long scene as well.

44:22 Yeah, no other director would do that. And McQueen was saying that you never really think about the lyrics when Sinatra sings it. Starts readin’ the news, and then she sings it, and you’re like, wow, that’s actually a sad song. And yeah, then he cried. But yeah, I think maybe you’re right.

44:38 Yeah, he is just a fucking machine, right? I mean, that’s all he does. He goes to work and does this and has his nice apartment. And you know what’s even scarier than that is, or scary to me at least, is sometimes, I mean evolutionary biology would have us, and that’s a huge, a very interesting field to me, fascinating actually, I read a lot about it, but there is one theory that states that what we are is these big lumbering gene replication machines and that everything you see around you, like civilisation, art, music, This love that’s been packaged to us by Hallmark and Hollywood is all just to further this objective, this like reproductive capacity of our genes.

45:27 And that’s fucking terrifying because that is nihilism in its purest form. Yeah. So that’s basically goal number one and everything else is secondary or tertiary to that. Well, art would only exist because someone wants to express themselves in order to attract In order to reproduce. In order to reproduce and this is something that’s been on my mind for a long time.

45:47 This is one of the reasons I want to take TMT is I want answers to these questions. I want to know like, is that our sole purpose is to ensure the propagation of the species? Because I mean, as a man, it’s a very fucking dark thought. As a man, you know what it’s like, you know, like evolutionary, we’re wired to spread our seed and I can see that myself often, often I’m not in control of my sex drive. You know, I’ll see like a woman, that scene with him on the subway.

46:13 Fuck, bro, that happens to me every day. Every fucking day, I’ll see a girl and I’ll just flick these primal switches, you know? And I’ll just, you know, everything changes. I turn off stuff, you know, like one of those like sharks, you know, like, and I have to really like kind of rein it in, do you know what I mean? I know what you mean.

46:30 My men are very visual, I think, and it’s just hard. Yeah, I had a buddy in college and we would, you know, look at girls and he’s like, you know what, Ryan? It never gets old. And it’s just like, fuck, I’m 40, you know? And some like hot piece of booty goes by and I’m like, I look, like there’s a scene in the movie where he looks in the girl, I look, she was going in his apartment building and she walks by and he just looks and looks at her ass.

46:53 And it’s just like, fuck. I mean, how many times have you done that? How many times have I not done that? A good friend of mine said to me once, actually wasn’t a good friend, it was someone else, quite a wise man. He said, you know, Nick, women are like ice cream cones.

47:07 Once you’ve had one, you just want another one. Like, dude, it’s kind of, there’s some truth to that. You know, like, no matter how emotionally connected or in love with someone you are, man, that thing never goes away. Fire never goes away. It’s fucking terrifying.

47:26 It’s funny, and then you get this, like, Judeo-Christian, you know, monogamy-type culture, and then you see someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger or someone like XYZB, who all are now sex addicts, which is, I thought at the time, a convenient way of getting out of it. And then I’m like, why wouldn’t Schwarzenegger, fuck his household mate, even if she looks like Dracula? Of course he would, he’s fucking Arnold Schwarzenegger. He’s the Alfred Alfred male, right?

47:50 Yeah, and it’s just, everyone is shocking, and it’s like, yeah, I mean, and women can get mad about that, but we are wired in a way that makes us, we’re always looking. But you know what, the part for me that is ultimately the most scary of all, and this was something that was incredibly painful for me to accept is, you know, we have these thoughts as guys, but women have similar thoughts, maybe not with the frequency and the level of visual like detail that we do, but you know, no matter how much your girl loves you, or the woman you’re with loves you, like she is gonna wanna fuck other guys. There’s no doubt about it.

48:30 She can pretend or say she doesn’t wanna, but she does, I mean, these are biological urges, you can pretend they don’t exist, you can shove them under the carpet, but they are there. And for me, I had to look at my relationship with a woman and understand that like, I think ultimately what I was searching for, and I think what many guys are searching for with a girlfriend or with a wife, is they want the replication of their mother’s love, right, their mother to, they want that feminine security that their mom’s gonna love them like they’re a little boy, right, and when you think about the fact that the girl that you’re with and that you marry, that your girlfriend would give that love away or that love or that physical intimacy away to someone else, it brings up all the insecurities.

49:10 It’s crushing, dude. It’s fucking crushing. We know from laws of attraction that if a guy flips the right 20 switches in a row with a girl, whether he’s charismatic or successful or whatever it is at the time or who knows at the time, maybe he just beat up a mugger or who knows, that she’s going to be attracted to him. Attraction is not a choice. Well said David D’Angelo and that’s and that is a very difficult thing to accept as a man It’s very difficult because you know if you can flick those switches another guy can too and it’s fucking hard to accept that But you know what I like, you know, I’m always on the spiritual kick line But what I’m starting to think about and the way I kind of rationalize it to myself and reconcile That new understanding about attraction not being a choice Is you know the Judeo Christian model monogamy is actually incredibly limited when it comes to love, because what we’re doing is you’re saying you’re going to meet one person, settle down with them and love them for the rest of your life, right?

50:05 And that’s it. But why is that better than loving many people? And I think what it comes down to why so many people struggle to accept that is because jealousy comes into it. And insecurity. Yeah, if I can go fuck another girl, right, that means my girl can go fuck another guy.

50:21 And then that’s very difficult, especially for a guy, especially with our caveman DNA who wants to, like, you know, like, it’s your woman, you know, like seeing them. Man, I’ve had times when I’ve been with a girlfriend and the thought of another guy’s hands in her has just been, it’s been too much for me to take early. And I realized ultimately, it comes back to my own insecurities. And if some other guy giving her sexual pleasure would make her happy, why should I be the one to hold that back from her?

50:46 Why should I be the one to try? That’s just my own insecurities and jealousy. If it was your best buddy and he was getting laid a lot, you’d be like, good for you, man. Fuck, that’s a great way to look at it, man. It’s such a good way to look at it.

50:55 If it’s your girlfriend, that’s not so cool. Talk about this nihilism, because I’ve been accused of being nihilistic. I mean, sometimes I’m like, what the hell is the point of anything? Because what is the point of anything? And like, how do you deal with that nihilism?

51:12 What do you think about it? The point is just to be here. Yeah, just to be present. The point is just like there is no end goal. There’s no financial or there’s no monetary figure.

51:22 There’s no social group you can develop. There’s no career achievement. There’s no sexual satisfaction. There is nothing in the future waiting for you that will make it worthwhile. And that’s why I think I was nihilistic for a long time, is because I had all these goals and these visions of my future.

51:43 And when some of those were taken away from me, like, for example, for everyone, then you start thinking, what’s the point? And the point to me, and this is my perspective, You know, through what I’ve been searching for, what I’ve come to realize is that the point, we always say it, it’s about the journey, man. It’s about us sitting here right now, this very second. This is what it’s about. It’s not about my retirement in 50 or my grandkids I’m gonna have one day or the two cheerleaders I’m gonna fuck at one time or whatever it might be.

52:13 It’s not about that, it’s about what’s happening now. It’s so hard to come to grasp with. Meditation is the only way, man. Really, it’s the only thing it’s been, you know, something I’ve, I’ve noticed, we always speak on meditation, but the more I do it and I’m really, really getting into it and I’m doing like 45 minutes a night, I’m starting to experience time. Now I don’t know how else to put it, but like, if you think about it, we’re actually, time is a dimension that we’re moving through and we’re sitting here moving through time and I’ll find myself very often, like realizing that I’m in time. Does that make sense?

52:47 It’s a little bit out there. No, I think I understand what you mean. Do you know what I’m saying? And I’ve never experienced that before. And when you do that, when you’re in that moment, it’s so much better than anything you could possibly imagined or built for yourself in some imaginary or real future.

53:02 Yeah, dude, I’ve always been goal-oriented in my whole life. Me too. And I mean, it’s hard to knock that because that’s why I’m here today. You know, it’s why you have your black belt, it’s why you’re in London, it’s why I’m here, it’s why I went to college while I loaded. Yeah, all these things.

53:18 It’s like, if I was living in the moment at the time, I wouldn’t be here, or would I? I don’t know. And now I’m always thinking, OK, when is London Real going to be on a major television network and all this crazy stuff when we need to be present? This is fun as hell right now. So guys, I’m getting better at it, at recognizing just be there in the moment and stop thinking, OK, everything’s going to be great when I get this.

53:42 Then it’s going to be better. And we all know that when we get that, it’s great for about five minutes. And then it’s not anymore. And then you’re still worrying about it being taken away from you? A lot like fast bender, you know?

53:51 And yeah, I mean, for him, maybe he needed to be about the journey, you know, I mean, he was like, I’ll maybe constantly looking for that next sexual conquest or something and not, he didn’t look like he was having much fun, did he? Not at all, dude. He looked like hollow. Like he was an empty person. And that life he had, I mean, if you described that life to someone in a book, they would be like, wow, you know, he’s living in Manhattan in a fly apartment with a job and he’s going out and drinking shots tequila and and meeting the hot women and stuff but then the reality or the way they portrayed it is it was a horrible hollow empty experience do you think though that it is preferable to being the dude who never gets laid man there’s nothing preferable about that guy’s life man it was just so it was so rough I mean it was a portrayed in a film of course but dude I guarantee there’s people like that aren’t there loads of people definitely Fassbender said he met one guy who really hit it home in New York that showed it. He said it was, he was not 10 times, but much, much worse than they portrayed in the movie. And as he said, he based a lot of what he was feeling on that as in a guy that was much more out of control than that. And he said, it really exists. He said, when he first heard the word sexual addiction, he laughed. He said, most people laugh. And that’s what the director said. And he said,

55:08 When you start looking into what some of these people are with the internet, Which is like crack cocaine for you know anybody like that with porn on demand and stuff. He said, uh, yeah, it really exists Well, I don’t think I’ve known anyone like that I mean, I’ve known people that that are you know Drug addicts and sex comes in there and lots of prostitutes and stuff like that But I never knew anyone who was so focused on that but then again, maybe they didn’t tell me You know someone said to me that you should never trust someone who doesn’t have any vices. Mmm interesting. I thought about that a lot. I A buddy in college said that one time.

55:42 He’s like, the fraternities always be a few guys that didn’t drink. And my buddy went, I was like, oh, I respect that guy if he doesn’t want to drink. And my buddy was like, you know what? Fuck him. You know?

55:51 I don’t know. I don’t. I don’t. And there’s something funny about a teetotaler. They have this.

55:57 They have this. Like an era of superiority? Yeah. This era of superiority about him. It’s honestly, it’s a bit rubbish, isn’t it?

56:02 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I used to be that guy who would never drink. And looking back, I realized a lot of it was due to my own attempts to control stuff, but It’s like my egos attempt to control control stuff But also I think the other spectrum is people who cannot enjoy themselves without some kind of alcoholic buzz That’s just as lame. Yeah. No, it is just as like, you know, there’s something I keep thinking about more and more which is

56:29 Walking the middle path You know is my buddy Steve Steve speaks about it always about walking this middle path You know, you don’t have to swing to an extreme in any aspect of your life There’s always a middle path that you can take and looking at myself. Fuck. I mean, I’m starting to Be an extremist in many aspects. I’m saying me too. You know what I mean? Yeah I kind of loathe the middle path, but um, it does get you there doesn’t it? I’m not saying be boring or tepid There’s a difference. Okay, right? I’m just Yeah, like all or nothing. It’s It’s, I don’t know.

57:01 It’s not sustainable, really. Dude, that went by fast. Yeah, it was really great. I just want to say, dude, thank you very much for seeing that movie. I know it was uncomfortable for you.

57:10 I know you probably didn’t want to. I’ve suggested it to many of my friends and they refused to see it. And I know a lot of people will not see it because they’re uncomfortable with it. But for me, it’s the one movie in the last year I’ve seen that made me think the most. No, thanks for forcing me to see it.

57:25 I really, I’m happy I saw it. You are? Yeah, for sure. helps. But anyways, thanks for joining us, I encourage everyone to go see it, it’s shame, it’s in the theaters, please pay for it, because these guys work really hard on it.

57:37 And get back to us on Facebook, leave comments, we really would appreciate a few guys out there. I mean we know we have these fans who will always send us emails, but rather than emails put a comment on the Facebook page or put a comment on our YouTube videos, we really appreciate that. And iTunes as well, there’s a lot of people listening to this, we’ve actually got over a thousand people each episode listening to this. If you don’t know, you can actually watch this on YouTube in case you don’t know.

57:58 But yeah, please leave comments on iTunes. It just ranks us up there in a popularity and we’ll spread the word. So in the meantime, It’s about the journey. Indeed. Thanks, dude.