Sadia Khan - What Women Want & Why Men Get It Wrong

Full transcript: Sadia Khan on London Real

2:38 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose, my guest today is… This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Sadia Khan, the former teacher, psychologist and relationship expert. You have an extensive background in education and developmental psychology, specializing in helping people better understand their relationships with friends, family and most importantly, their partners.

3:08 You’ve amassed a huge audience on social media, with many of your videos racking up millions of views. You believe that many modern relationships are fundamentally unhealthy, with most people failing to recognize their own insecurities and the impact of their childhood trauma. You’ve said that the rise of negative role models online is creating narcissistic women, while pornography is making men incapable of connecting on both a physical and emotional level. Sadia, welcome to London Real.

3:37 Sadia Khan: Thank you so much for having me, Brian. This is a very big honor for me, so thank you so much. I’m really excited.

3:41 Brian Rose: Your videos have been popping up all over my social…

3:45 Sadia Khan: I’m so sorry about that, by the way. You must be so sick of me.

3:48 Brian Rose: Oh my gosh. But you’re everywhere, and I think you’re everywhere for a lot of people. And I think you are. And we were talking beforehand, you know, why do people enjoy watching you? And there’s something very congruent about you when you speak about these things.

4:03 And that’s always why any of my guests become super popular, whether you’re David Icke or you’re Dorian Yates. It’s because people feel these people are speaking from their heart, they’re speaking congruently, and they’re speaking to add value to other people. You do all of that, and that’s why you’re here.

4:19 That’s why people are listening to you. But also, if you listen to what you say, you might wonder if it’s the end of the world of relationships.

4:27 Sadia Khan: I know. Very dramatic, aren’t I?

4:29 Brian Rose: Well, but maybe a lot of people would experience in their own lives the challenges they have with relationships. And they are challenging. And digital media, which we’ll get into, I guess makes it all even more challenging. And it’s given us all of these new pitfalls and things that our grandparents didn’t have to deal with.

4:47 I don’t know if you remember your grandparents’ relationship, but I do. And it was at a time before the internet and a time where people usually stayed together. And there was something beautiful and comforting about that. I don’t know if we’re ever going to see that again.

5:02 So what is the state of the union right now when it comes to relationships? Is this the worst time ever in human history? I know you coach a lot of people. Or is it that we notice it more so? What would you say is the state of play?

5:16 Sadia Khan: Unfortunately, I would say it’s one of the worst times in human history. And I would say it’s because we replaced duty with hedonism. In previous generations, joining together was a duty, the spiritual duty, a relationship duty through family.

5:31 There was an element of duty involved in connecting with the people that we love. And love was just one component, but it was really like, let’s create a family, let’s make a home for the children. Let’s stand by God, let’s do all of these things.

5:43 There was an element of, I’ll put my desire second, but the priority and responsibility of this relationship first. We have replaced that with a really hedonistic society. We are just byproducts of a society that has catered to our desires and pleasures.

5:57 And as a result, when it comes to relationships, we are unable to delay gratification. If every need and every desire and every pleasure is not immediately satisfied, we look for replacements. We’re not somebody who’s immune to this. We do it with our phones, we do it with our clothes, even the advent of cheap clothes.

6:15 Like if you don’t like something, you throw it away, you get another one, order one the next day. If that’s the society we’re breeding, how would that not have a trickle-down effect onto relationships? If we live in a world where Amazon Prime the next day, throw out these clothes, replace, replace, replace, how would that not affect our emotional connections?

6:33 So instead of creating connections, we’re creating two hedonistic individuals who are completely individualistic, who are void of responsibility, now joining forces and creating children with that banner. So it’s not the healthiest time to form a relationship, unfortunately.

6:50 Brian Rose: Wow. So if we look back, say, 100 years ago, the marriage and the family was part of a bigger group, the community, the city, the state, the religious organization. And it was all part of one, and you had various responsibilities to your parents or to the church or to all these things. And that no longer happens.

7:10 Sadia Khan: Yeah, there was no element of desire related to marriage. It was just the next stage of life, and it was just like how you go to work. You don’t necessarily desire every job role. You do it because you’ve got bills to pay.

7:22 So marriage was the next stage of life, and you’ve got children to raise, and you’ve got money to make, and you’ve got a family to kind of create. And I’m not saying that was perfect, but we’ve now, we’ve made desire the primary focus behind marriage, and desire is a temporary emotion. It can’t last forever.

7:40 And the more connected we get with somebody, the more the desire dissipates. So of course, desire is going to go. Now, we’ve trained people into thinking, if desire has depleted, you have to replace the person. Rather than understanding that desire is not necessarily required in the long run, and it’s not an ingredient of longevity.

8:00 But we’ve told everybody, if you don’t desire it, don’t do it. And unfortunately, that makes us short term. That will make us, it creates short term mating strategies, which are actually a precursor for narcissism and anti-personality disorder. If you look at most criminals, they tend to have one thing in common.

8:18 It’s lots of short term mating strategies, because it creates a mind that uses people rather than connects with people. Isn’t that wild?

8:25 Brian Rose: Yeah, that is wild. And yeah, we’ll get into this, but you’ve said that serial killers on death roll all had a history of pornography abuse and all these other things.

8:35 Sadia Khan: Yeah, isn’t that crazy? Most serial killers in death row, they had an addiction to pornography. And why is that? Because pornography allows you to take all of the pleasure out, getting all of your kicks out of somebody without investing anything into them, without caring about them, without worrying about them, without even considering their well-being, and getting all of your desires out of them.

8:55 So you can watch pornography. You’re not worried about whether this person is consensual, whether this person went through trauma that led to this now becoming a sex worker or him becoming a sex worker. You’re not worried if they’re on drugs.

9:07 All you worry about is, are you getting pleasure from this? And so that mindset going into dating is not the healthiest.

9:14 Brian Rose: You’ve gone deep on this and said that we’re the first ones to say, you know, no child trauma, no child abuse, no child trafficking, and yet, 10 years later, those same people are performing porn that everyone just consumes avidly. And you said, isn’t there something duplicitous about this?

9:34 Sadia Khan: Isn’t that strange that we can all agree child trafficking is wrong? We can all agree molesting a child is wrong. We can all agree that some childhood trauma is wrong. But when we take that person’s vulnerability, and now that person has only done what they know, which has gone back into sex work, we, for some reason, celebrate that outcome, and we watch it, and we get aroused by it, which is one of the reasons I’m so confused by the women that watch pornography and the feminists that watch pornography.

10:01 You advocate so much for women’s rights, and you talk about patriarchy, and you define patriarchy as a pay gap or having to do chores, but you don’t define patriarchy as women getting raped on camera and you’re watching it, or women selling their body online for $5.99 a month, and men are consuming it. You don’t consider that patriarchy, but you do consider folding your husband’s clothes as oppressive. So I just think we’ve indoctrinated women into kind of labeling their oppression as freedom, telling them, actually, what we’ve made is them commodities to men, told them that’s liberty and that’s freedom, and they’ve gone, okay, and that’s their movement now, sadly.

10:43 Brian Rose: Well, let’s talk about that, because you’ve said that nowadays, all of the poor choices of women are celebrated, right? And so you’re a sex worker, let’s celebrate it. You’ve made this bad decision, let’s celebrate it. You sell yourself on the only event, let’s celebrate it.

10:57 It’s now all celebrated. And you said there’s no longer any consequences, and you say that these women end up, I think you said, gaslighting themselves into promoting this behavior as this liberation. When you look at it and you’re like, oh, you’re kidding.

11:11 You’re actually, you’re not taking accountability for poor decisions, and then you’re reaping whatever you sow.

11:18 Sadia Khan: That’s the sad part, and this is somebody who, as a woman myself, I just realized if I was to make endless poor decisions for my mind, body, and soul, there would be a positive praise outcome. So we’re almost modifying women’s behavior to become self-destructive. If I gained a lot of weight, and I would totally stop taking care of my body, I would be celebrated body positivity.

11:41 And that’s not good for me. You and I both know it’s not good for us, not to run every day or not to, it’s not good for us. Or if I sleep around with the wrong men and I just go and get an abortion, rather than exercising more discretion with who I lay down with and actually taking responsibility and think, you know what, if I sleep with you and have a baby with you, I don’t want to have a baby with you, so bye, I’m not talking to you.

12:03 Instead, it’s like, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, an abortion if need be. I’m celebrated for having that choice. And if I want to then, you know, sell my body my personal sexual life, which is so sacred and sanctity, if I then make it a commodity, I’m seen as a really successful entrepreneur.

12:22 When really what I’m doing is selling my soul. I am putting a price tag on my soul and my energy. And no matter how progressive we come, there is women who sell their body to someone. I’m not blaming them.

12:34 I’m sure there’s lots of trauma and there’s lots of financial issues or whatever it is. But when we make our body a commodity, we essentially remove the sanctity of sex and therefore it makes it harder to actually see how important sex is and therefore we give it frivolously and then we can’t connect with people because the deepest form of connection should be sex. But if I’m giving it to this uncle, that friend online, how am I able to preserve the spirituality behind it?

13:02 So I’m basically selling all the parts of women that make them beautiful. I’m now turning it into a product and therefore we are more oppressed than we’ve ever been but we’ve labeled it as liberty. But the feminists celebrate that as female empowerment.

13:18 What is empowering about being 5.99 for a dirty man that is probably doing all sorts with your pictures? I’ve never understood that. I am now the customer to this dirty old man or this creepy young boy. He’s my customer.

13:35 So now I have to please him. I basically work for him. So I’m taking probably the most perverse members of men in society and becoming a slave to their desires and I’m labeling that as empowering because if you take respectable men, they probably wouldn’t want me to do that.

13:53 So I’m taking the worst cohort of men and becoming a product for their desires and labeling it as empowering. And I’m not judging the women. It’s a dual issue, both men and women because I’m sure there’s financial issues but it’s just a glorification of it that I find insane. And sad. What do you think about that? From a man’s perspective?

14:15 Brian Rose: And also on that note, you take it all the way and it becomes I’m selling lurid videos on OnlyFans but if you take it part way, then you have women that create social media accounts that get attention based on certain types of behaviors. And so there’s a spectrum of what you’re talking about because a lot of people might listen and say, well, I would never do that. But now everybody’s on that spectrum to some extent because we, well, let’s talk about that because women get rewarded by certain behaviors online that you say promotes narcissism when sometimes they’re the first one to say, men are the narcissist.

14:51 But I want to dive in and see because this digital availability of everything affects the sexist differently. And so for women, is it that spectrum of I post a photo on Instagram or I’m the OnlyFans account here or I’m making porn? And where does that spectrum lie and what are the different behaviors and what does it promote people doing?

15:12 Sadia Khan: The moment you can weaponize any area of that spectrum, you fall into the more antisocial narcissistic category. And what I mean by that is I might be not posting too much, but the moment I weaponize it, the moment I am annoyed with my partner and I want a new partner or the moment I want to kind of get some extrinsic kind of thrills, cheap thrills, and I then use Instagram as almost a device to fill that void or fill that empty low self-esteem, then I’m starting to fall on the spectrum.

15:43 It’s not really what you post, it’s the intention behind it. And if there’s an element of I’m using this device to fill a hole or to add self-esteem, I’m essentially relying on, it’s like eating junk food for nutrients, it won’t do it. All it will do is create you a feedback loop of desiring more likes and comments and creating more fake self-esteem when really what women used to do is have to work on their nurturing side in order to be valuable.

16:14 They had to work on their skills to be valuable. We had grandmothers who would be able to sew a dress for us, I’m not saying I can do that, I’m still very useless on that sense, but they would be able to cookie something from scratch and they’d be able to sew something or they’d be so, so useful. Now we’re making ourselves less useful and just essentially just an object of desire and therefore we have temporary value because we all know that looks fake.

16:41 And so essentially we’re making women almost replaceable because if you’re just a pretty face and you know other value, men are going to replace us with AI. Whereas if you add some intrinsic value, you’re irreplaceable as a woman. My grandma, my mother, your mother, I’m sure your grandma, irreplaceable women.

16:58 But unfortunately if I’m just a pretty face, I’m so replaceable by robots. Essentially you’ll be replaced by robots and at least robots actually listen and are nice to you. So as a female it’s become so easy to post that picture on Instagram, show a little more booty, get a lot more likes, get some feedback whether your intentions are good about it but you’re going to get the attention, you’re going to get the DMs, you’re going to get a release and dopamine. At the same time it’s men that are promoting that. They’re modifying the behavior.

17:27 Brian Rose: Right, we’re modifying the behavior and then when we want, and then the women do that because it’s a temporary fix when in fact if they had discipline and what is it, delayed gratification, they might work on their character which is harder to do but in the long run it then makes them more valuable.

17:45 Sadia Khan: Absolutely.

17:46 Brian Rose: The flip side is men, when we get frustrated with the situation then we go to the porn and the porn is there for us, it gives us I guess everything we want I guess and then we don’t have to invest in ourselves to become the kind of man that doesn’t need porn to find the women of our desires. Yeah. Am I explaining this correctly?

18:05 Sadia Khan: Yes you are, essentially what pornographers, well the thing is as much as I’m talking about women they don’t get here alone. Women in certain cultures will not post a bikini picture because the men in that culture will not reward that behavior. They won’t reinforce it.

18:19 They might reinforce the opposite where they will go nowhere near you but we’re living in a world now where men are reinforcing that. They’re reinforcing the kind of only fans girls, she’s getting the most followers and she’s getting the most likes so what’s happening is we’re modifying the women’s behavior, the men are modifying it by rewarding the wrong behavior and punishing the right behavior. So the women are actually quite discreet and working on their character don’t get as many brand deals and they don’t get as much accolade on social media and they don’t get a platform whereas the women that are exposing themselves and selling themselves, they get the most reward and praise in this day and age.

18:58 So it’s not just the women’s fault. We have to think about who’s rewarding them and then it’s almost like a form of conditioning, a form of off-front conditioning. We’re kind of creating the woman that they actually don’t want to be with.

19:09 They’re molding and rewarding and punishing all the traits until they create a woman that they actually are incompatible with and then have to replace her with porn because they don’t like the woman they created or the woman they selected. So it’s dark times unfortunately.

19:23 Brian Rose: So as men we’re creating the kind of women that we ultimately don’t want and then women are creating the type of men that they ultimately don’t want.

19:30 Sadia Khan: Well they’re becoming a person they don’t actually want to be and men are creating women that they don’t actually want to be with. They’re liking and commenting and trying to be with that really sexy narcissistic kind of woman and then when they’re with her they’re really disappointed. But there was plenty of nice kind women that you ignored to focus on those women. So we’re almost modifying femininity into a person we actually can’t connect with.

19:56 Brian Rose: Now it’s one thing to like someone’s post on Instagram that’s that type of woman but like there’s that old song that the type you don’t bring home to mama but in the real world men can recognize a woman who is grounded and has great values and is someone they want to be with long term. So won’t that always win out?

20:15 Sadia Khan: I think in the real world that applies to men of a different generation. They can definitely distinguish between women that you enjoy your time with and women you invest your time with. They can definitely distinguish that. The younger generation cannot and the reason being is they are so over sexualized.

20:33 They are so exposed to sexual women whether it’s supernography, Instagram, TikTok, whatever it is. So they just think this is how women are. They don’t know the opposite. They don’t know the more chaste woman or the one that has more discretion when it comes to exposing yourself.

20:50 They only know the ones that are willing and prepared to do it. So this is what they think women come as. So I think the generation has changed so much that the younger generation don’t have any discernment at all.

21:02 And again it’s not just the women’s fault. The women are also being left with men who are almost addicted to pornography and as a result are over sexualized as well and therefore she feels like she has to keep up with this kind of desires he’s created in his head. So we’ve got this young generation that are so disconnected but they’re so sexualized. So it leads to short term mating strategies.

21:28 Brian Rose: Okay and now if you’re a woman and you’re hearing this and they’re agreeing, what can they do to not become this woman?

21:34 Sadia Khan: It’s very difficult. If I’m honest I don’t know what I would be doing if I was 17 years old. So I have to put it out there. It is incredibly difficult to be a young woman in this day and age because if you try and withhold yourself there will be a bunch of guys putting pressure on you on a daily basis saying, send a picture, this girl does it, that girl does it and if you go on your feel you page all your peers are doing that.

21:55 So it’s incredibly difficult. The only thing I would say is that the only thing that can separate you from this situation is having a set of intrinsic values and morals that will surpass your external appearance. And what I mean by that is working on something that is unique to you.

22:12 If you work on just your looks everybody has good looks in this day and age. Everybody can put a bit of makeup on, add a filter and look great. But if you work on something that is unique to your soul it doesn’t mean you have to be super intelligent.

22:24 You could just be super gifted at something or you could be super caring or you could be super nurturing or whatever it is. If you work on something that is more intrinsic you’re more likely to be irreplaceable and you’re also more likely to derive self-esteem from that overall character rather than just one very vacuous trait which is again very difficult to do when you’re 17, 16 years old.

22:44 Brian Rose: Right. And you said that looks are the only asset we have that depreciates.

22:48 Sadia Khan: Yeah.

22:49 Brian Rose: Right. All right, so we did a nice job beating up on the girls. Now let’s talk about the guys. I know you’ve sat down with Andrew Tate. I know you’ve talked to him and you’ve talked about men. And so let’s flip the side.

23:02 What is going on with men? What is wrong with men? Also, I also see maybe in America because they’re always first a way of them trying to take the masculinity out of men. And for me it sometimes feels like these women are trying to create men that they ultimately won’t desire.

23:18 Yeah. Maybe the same way that like you say social media is creating women that we ultimately don’t desire. Yeah. But what do you make of the Andrew Tate phenomenon? What do you make of Andrew? And what do you make of the men that follow him? And then what are some of the learnings from men these days?

23:33 Sadia Khan: I think he’s evolved quite a lot from when he first came out to his current state. And it’s not, I mean, I don’t disagree with everything he says or anything like that. I think his fundamental message is almost to kind of reclaim masculinity.

23:47 And I understand that message. The only thing that I disagree with is how he packages it is through more of kind of cheap thrills again, like with young women and beautiful women on a yacht. Like if you want to be a masculine man, that’s what you need.

24:04 And if you want to be a masculine man, you need a nice sports car. And so that’s the only thing. I think his fundamental values are correct, but how he advertises it to men and how he lures men into that is through those cheap values that I’m actually hoping men will diminish.

24:17 Having a bunch of girls on a yacht won’t actually fill that void and won’t create that long lasting, that masculinity that you’re craving. Investing into one woman and actually being responsible for her and responsible for her wellbeing and your children’s wellbeing is more likely to create masculinity than hiring a boat with a bunch of Swedish models. And so that part I disagree with.

24:38 And similarly, having lots of fancy cars, again, it’s a junk value. Yes, it’s nice, but it doesn’t actually bring you purpose in life. And it’s also something that once you achieve it, it doesn’t actually add anything to a man.

24:53 Whereas problem solving and responsibility and self-control, these are traits that are continuous. There’s only certain amount of fast cars you can drive, but there’s endless amount of self-control, responsibility and problem solving that will lead to masculinity. So I think sometimes he advertises it wrong, but I think his fundamental messages are ones that I agree with.

25:13 There’s a lot about setting boundaries, there’s a lot about taking personal accountability, there’s a lot about spirituality that I do agree with. So I would say I agree on 70%. There’s certain things I disagree with, but majority on the whole I agree. What do you think about Andrew?

25:28 Brian Rose: Also, I’ve heard you quote him and say, I like Andrew Tate, but I don’t like his followers. And I’ve heard you say that, look, Andrew has paid the cost to be the boss. And so he’s done the work, physically, mentally, whatever he has done, so he can act that way.

25:42 But the followers just hear what he says and they just parrot it back, but they actually haven’t done the work. He might agree because he’s always saying, look, there is no depression, get up, do the work, become a man, take responsibility, do things that are hard. That’s how you build your character.

25:56 But you see a lot of the Tate fans out there and they just act as if.

26:00 Sadia Khan: Yeah, and I think that’s the main problem with men in general, the shortcuts. The men in this generation, the real problem is they’re looking for shortcuts. They want shortcuts to sexual gratification, they use porn. They want shortcuts to women, they might just use a lot of money to lure them in.

26:17 They want money, so they might quickly invest in something and they don’t want to delay the gratification. They don’t want to have a career. They don’t want to educate. They just want to go straight into making money. They might even turn to dealing drugs.

26:28 Everything is shortcuts. Now, the problem with shortcuts is it doesn’t teach you problem solving. Now, if I make money very quickly, very instantly, overnight through crypto or if I do it through a quick online business, whatever it is, fantastic, great.

26:42 But I haven’t learned problem solving. I haven’t learned what could I do if everything goes wrong. What is it like to lose everything and build it back? What tenacity do I require? Now, in order to be a masculine man, you have to be a problem solver.

26:56 Now, the problem with this generation of men, they don’t want to put in the work to become a problem solver and they don’t want to take on responsibility, but they want all of the joy of the outcomes of money and women and cars. And so I think that’s what they’re losing is their inability to delay gratification and learn the skills required for success instead they just want the success. And that’s what I think his followers are like.

27:20 They want to say that Andrew Tate, they want to say they believe in everything that he believes in, but they’ve done none of the groundwork that warrants that opinion in themselves. I’m curious, what would you think of somebody like Andrew’s message?

27:32 Brian Rose: So, you know, when Andrew came up, maybe a year ago, started seeing a lot of this stuff pop up and I’ve had a lot of controversial guests on my show and a lot of male energy on my show. You could argue my show is just my search for a male role model. You really want to analyze me, maybe you have.

27:49 And so I’ve had people like Dan Pena on the show, which is kind of a, he’s a 75 year old version of Andrew and he comes on and he doesn’t pull any punches. He’s like your grandfather. He just tells it like it is.

28:00 He tells you you’re weak. He tells you to stop up and he tells you to keep going. And he’s very controversial, but when I bump into people on the streets, they all ask me about him because the men, men, the women deep down inside know that he’s the only one that’s telling them the truth.

28:15 And the truth, I believe, Sadia, is the rarest commodity these days because no one will tell you the truth because they all have an agenda somewhere. And so they’ll lie to you to get you to do whatever they want to do. And so when someone gives it to you straight, you know it deep down inside.

28:30 And so they flock to someone like Pena where on the outside, anybody politically correct is, you know, they’re shocked by what he says. But deep down he has a massive following. So when I saw Andrew come up, I thought he’s fulfilling a need that men want.

28:45 And men need someone to guide them, someone to tell them the truth and tell them to step up. And there’s a dearth of that out there where they’re trying to feminize men and the toxic masculinity. So for me, the rise of Andrew was a sign that this need wasn’t being met and that we were creating a type of mail that was really lacking this in their life.

29:06 You might argue that the election of Trump was another signal that people were sick and tired of this narrative that was being promoted maybe by the coasts of America. And that deep down inside, your traditional person, and you come from traditional values, was saying, no, we’re not having all this nonsense that we read about in the New York Times. We actually value what traditionally is, core values and traditional beliefs, and we want that back.

29:29 So I saw Andrew as that rise. Now look, anybody who cuts through media to become the most Google man on the planet, as he says, has to use other techniques and to use that, it’s the fast cars, and it’s the lifestyle, and it’s the edgy content that pushes the envelope.

29:46 Sadia Khan: Sorry to interrupt you, but from knowing Andrew, I know that’s not actually what he’s like, but it works well on so and so.

29:52 Brian Rose: And so I’ve watched a lot of content on Andrew. I’m a fan. He’s a great speaker as well. He’s a great communicator. And again, I’ve had so many guests over the years. I can realize that the message isn’t enough.

30:03 You need the messenger. And he’s a great communicator, and it’s congruent with him on many levels. And so that’s important. But you need the flash. You need the sizzle to get the people to put the stake in. And so I agree.

30:17 People are like, oh, he’s not like that. But he can actually turn up the dial on me. He can turn it up to 11 on Andrew. He can become that guy really quickly, and he can say, well, they took it out of context.

30:27 But that’s his alter ego. He can turn it up, and that gets attention. And we’re in an attention economy. And so that is part him, and that’s why everybody saw him initially. As you consume more of Andrew, you start to realize that there are some really, I think, positive male values.

30:44 Sadia Khan: And important ones.

30:45 Brian Rose: And important ones.

30:46 Sadia Khan: And one thing I have to say that what he highlighted is the importance of fearlessness. And we as human beings need fearless men. The reason being is an evolved trait. Like when we used to live in hunter-gatherer times, if everybody was so fearful, we would never go out and hunt and get food.

31:02 We needed fearless men that would say, I don’t care that it’s dark. Let me quickly. I think I heard something. Let me go hunt it. Now, women, what’s happening is we’re creating fearful men because they’re terrified to even, you know, approach a woman in the gym in case she films it and puts it on TikTok, or we’re terrified to even compliment a woman in case she kind of gets you arrested.

31:21 So what’s happening is we’re creating fearful men. But the reality is, when a woman is with a man who’s fearful of her, she feels like she has a power over him. And when she feels like she has more power than him, she doesn’t feel safe.

31:33 So we actually need a fearless man. When he feels it, it doesn’t just mean he says what he wants. He has a willingness to walk away. He actually lets go of a woman if she’s being too difficult. But the problem is, we’ve created a society of men who tiptoe around women, and as a result, she no longer feels safe.

31:49 And when women don’t feel safe, they end up either hopping… They lose their identity. They’re becoming masculine. They’re becoming feminine. They don’t know what they do. So they get a bit lost in the process. So I think what he’s highlighted is that people are attracted to fearlessness, and it’s something that we need to bring back.

32:06 And what’s so funny is, like you were saying with your guest, Dan, probably what he said a hundred years ago wouldn’t be seen as fearless. But now we’ve made what’s normal and what’s just an opinion, we’re terrified to say it, because again, the modification is, if you say something that offends the softest people in society, you might get cancelled. And so we’re catering to the weakest members of society and tiptoeing around them, and as a result, we’re silencing everybody and their opinions sadly, which is why your platform is so fantastic, because you actually give voices to people who have that kind of laissez-faire attitude towards social media and towards what the politically correct thing to say is.

32:44 Brian Rose: And people really want to hear this stuff. That’s the crazy thing.

32:47 Sadia Khan: And you must really want to, because you invite those kind of…

32:49 Brian Rose: Yeah. I also like to be challenged a little bit, and I like to try to entertain ideas that I don’t agree with, because it’s a try. It’s healthy.

32:57 Sadia Khan: And was there anything in Andrew that you disagreed with? On the whole, did you understand his message?

33:02 Brian Rose: Look, Andrew put himself out there, and he wanted to, I guess, get a huge following worldwide. And so to do that, he did a lot of media. And in doing so, he talked about the various things that he did from a business perspective.

33:16 And I think over the years, he probably did things that he maybe wish he hadn’t. Yes. Now, when you got to make money as a man, then I respect a man’s hustle. But in doing so, I think he backed himself into situations and made some enemies that maybe he’s paying for now.

33:30 Now, I think he’s being unfairly prosecuted for those things, but because I think he was so open about those things, they had a lot of ammunition for him. That’s true. And look, sometimes he just takes it up to 11, and so you could say, okay, some of those things are slightly offensive, but to the core, and he can be a little bit of a chameleon to all great communicators.

33:51 You know, Gandhi did that, and Obama did that. So in that sense, he’s great. I think he’s a net maximum positive. And if you really spend time listening to the long-form message, there’s great things there, and the character is great, just to see the way he handled himself when he was incarcerated and the way he handles himself.

34:07 Sadia Khan: Oh, yeah, with a lot of dignity.

34:08 Brian Rose: A lot of dignity and the way he’s constantly praising the Romanian officials, and it’s nice to see someone taking the higher route there. Yeah. But there’s a lot of forces against him here, and did he have to call out Greta on the Twitter feed?

34:23 I mean, that’s the side of Andrew that makes him so famous. Yeah. It’s whether he did that tweet or not, I don’t know. But it’s where the ego just gets a little out of control. Yeah. And that’s the line we all walk as human beings. But if he didn’t do that sometimes, we wouldn’t know who he is.

34:39 Sadia Khan: And I think that when somebody’s made a concerted effort to change something that they did many years ago that they didn’t like, if they’re making an effort to, you know, say that, okay, maybe I still don’t agree with that kind of industry anymore and I wouldn’t have done it in this day and age, I don’t think we should kind of punish people on their worst sins, especially if they’ve made an effort to change it. But it is a great ammunition for the people that want to hold it against him.

35:02 So, unfortunately, it just comes with the price when you live a very colorful life. People can pick on lots.

35:08 Brian Rose: Yeah, and now he’s got a high profile and, you know, we live in, I realized in 2020 with our episodes with Icke and all the censoring that we got, I mean, this literally is an informational war. We’re talking about how the way that we digitally communicate with each other and the way we digitally reward men and women, we’ll get into men shortly. But, you know, it’s an information war.

35:28 So people are like, ah, they can’t be trying to cancel Andrew because of what he says. But right now it really is about promoting an ideology and putting ideas in people’s minds in any way, shape or form. And those are the front lines.

35:41 War doesn’t happen anymore on the battlefield. It doesn’t happen with nuclear missiles. It happens right in your bedroom with your kid’s iPad. Yeah. And so this is real and it’s going to define our future. Our digital media will.

35:54 And so I can see why he’s right at the cut of it. And that’s why everybody goes to visit Andrew in Romania. I mean, how do you get Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and Patrick Bet-David to go to Bucharest?

36:03 I couldn’t even tell Bucharest. But they do it because they understand that Andrew is at the front line of this war.

36:10 Sadia Khan: You would be a great interviewer. You should definitely.

36:12 Brian Rose: Yeah. Yeah. I’d like to sit down.

36:15 Sadia Khan: Yeah, you’d be great at that.

36:16 Brian Rose: So yeah, I think it’s a net positive and it’s a fascinating character study for me. But again, it shows me, for me, he’s a symptom of a bigger problem, which is men and maybe women looking for the essence of what it is to be a man. Yeah.

36:30 Sadia Khan: And everybody needs that. And I agree with you.

36:32 Brian Rose: Yeah. Let’s talk about what’s going on with men, because maybe some of these men are following Andrew. But if narcissism is the result of what we’re doing to women with our digital media online, what’s happening to our men?

36:47 Sadia Khan: Weakness. Weakness, they are so afraid of responsibility. They are so terrified of self-control and they have no desire to solve problems. So it creates a very, very weak man. And what I mean by this is there are men that will essentially use their 20s as an extended adolescence.

37:12 Back in the day, what men would do is use their 20s as a training ground for their future so they would get their education or go to wars. They would create a home. They would have their children. And that would be their focus for the rest of their life.

37:26 Now I have to feed my family. I’ve created the groundwork and now I know where I’m going for the next 30 years. I’m going to make sure my kids go to school, my wife is fed, and this, that, and the other.

37:35 And their 20s would be that period. What we’ve done is taken the 20s of men and replaced responsibility with hedonism. So men are now told that 25 is way too young to have kids. And even part of me, when I see a man that’s 25 and married, I’m like, how did that, like, what went wrong?

37:53 And it’s because what we’ve done is we’ve created 20s as an extended adolescence. We’ve accepted that a 25-year-old man will have no different of lifestyle than a 19-year-old man. Because essentially he’ll still be going out on the weekend.

38:06 He’ll still be having short-term mating strategies with sleeping with girls without even taking them on dates or without even considering marriage and kids. And we’ve convinced them that marriage is terrible. We’ve convinced men that you, you know, just go on a bunch of holidays.

38:19 Just go and spend money. Get in debt if you have to. Move out from your parents as long as you’ve got your own place. And even if you’re struggling to pay rent, that’s better. Just waste your money. Waste your efforts.

38:30 Just waste, waste, waste. Nothing is about investing into their future unless it’s money. They don’t think about how do I take care of people? Now men back in the day, their primary focus was how do I provide and protect the people around me, particularly women around me.

38:47 The man, the average man, the young man, is not even thinking about providing and protecting. He’s just thinking about enjoying and, you know, avoiding responsibility. And I think the avoidance of responsibility limits a man’s ability to become masculine.

39:02 You will never be masculine until you have to provide for people. You’ll never be masculine until you have to protect people. And what we’ve done is created a man who’s afraid of those things. So unfortunately, I think we’re, the main problem with men is weakness.

39:16 And they allow women to walk all over them. They allow that a lot more than they wrote previously. I get that the culture is very terrified of women, but they tiptoe around it. They’re scared to say an opinion.

39:26 They’re so fearful and weak that women are no longer attracted to them, and because they’re not getting that attraction from women, they stick to pornography or escorts or using prostitution because they essentially recognize that they’re not a man that women would be attracted to.

39:42 Brian Rose: Wow. All right.

39:44 Sadia Khan: And the women like having that temporary power. So sometimes they’re just like, I like this, because everybody wants more power. Yeah. So again, the short-term focus, it feels good to have some power over a man. But in the long term, you’re breeding someone that is not going to protect your village, is not going to protect you, is not going to be the father of the children you want.

40:01 Yeah. It’s slightly different to how we all like junk food. In the short term, it tastes great. Afterwards, you feel shit and you know your body will pay the price. Similarly, when you take a weak man, for the first moments, you feel like you’re on a power trip and you feel loved actually, that he caves into you and you feel as a woman that he must really love me because he just listens to everything I say and he concedes to everything.

40:24 So you start to have an inflated ego and you think, this is great. This feels like love. He really loves me because he gives into everything. Over time, you’re pushing more and more because you’re looking, you’re looking for the boundary.

40:35 We all are. As human beings, we look for our boundaries. So she ends up pushing him more and more and starts to hate him because she doesn’t feel safe around him and she can’t see the stop sign and we need stop signs.

40:47 As human beings, we need it at work. We need it in the law. We need it in our relationships. So what happens is that kind of ego boost turns into contempt. She starts to have resentment and contempt towards this man for being unable to make her feel safe and protected.

41:02 So unfortunately, that weak man, that initially your thinking is great because he agrees with all your ideologies, is later going to be the bone of contention and you’re actually going to go out and seek a man who’s more toxic and more difficult and actually more punished, who’s punishing you because you’ve been craving boundaries. We all crave them, unfortunately. It’s fascinating.

41:22 We all search for boundaries and all of our relationships. And as a woman myself, what we say and what we want are not in line, unfortunately. We say we want them to accept our influence, but in the long run, we need to just trust their judgment.

41:35 So we actually just want a man who trusts his own judgment and we can let him lead us and we know that he’s not going to lead us off a cliff, whereas when he’s too soft and too weak, he’s like an extra child for us and we have to raise him and we don’t like him.

41:49 Brian Rose: And the men are the same way because we thought in the short term, we want the super exciting carnal woman that’s out there, but in the long run, then we know that’s just a nightmare and that she probably comes from something challenging and traumatizing, which we’ll get to, but we don’t really want that in the long run.

42:06 Sadia Khan: In the short run, it’s great though for men. They love that vixen kind of woman that keeps him on his terms because it’s a challenge and it’s a way of like, if I can get her to submit, I’ve really achieved something, I’ve conquered something and it makes, it’s great for the male ego compared to a woman who’s naturally very easy to conquer, but in the long run, it’s soul destroying because you can’t actually get her to, you might fall in love with that woman that you actually can’t secure and it actually is very soul destroying for their ego.

42:34 So we’re very complex as human beings. We love, it’s like we’re masochists. We love causing ourselves trauma. Isn’t it terrible?

42:41 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s terrible. I want to get into the relationships, but let’s cover porn while we’re here. So porn and the accessibility of porn these days, and I guess in a whole variety of that is through the roof. I mean, my boys are six and seven and I’m trying to convince myself that they’re going to see this sooner than later, if not already.

43:00 Sadia Khan: Oh, I hope not. God forbid.

43:02 Brian Rose: But tell me about how that affects that male. If they’re already weak or being promoted to be weak, then how does this play out for men? Because it’s different than women.

43:11 Sadia Khan: Yeah. The average age of porn consumption is around 10 now, and this is completely accidental. They could be just playing a game and a pop-up will come. And the reason why that happens is the porn industry targets them young.

43:25 And the reason why they target them so young is so that by the time they’re 18, they’re already addicted and by that time they have credit cards. So they give them lots of free pornography in the early stages, get them addicted to their future customers. And they know that by that time it takes more extremities for them to feel arousal so they’re willing to pay for it.

43:46 Now, the reason why that is so damaging is firstly it makes them more likely to be child predators, not just child victims. Young boys watching a lot of pornography and even girls, what happens is they stop seeing sexual abuse as assault. They see it as a form of pleasure because in pornography, when men are being abusive to women, she responds either neutrally or with pleasure, which is just not real.

44:11 That’s not actually what happens in real life. If you punch a woman in real life, it doesn’t feel good. But in pornography, for some reason, that makes her moan even louder. So it trains them to misunderstand women, completely misunderstand women.

44:26 And what it also trains them to do is consider sex as a ritual, as an act, you just do this, almost like a sport. I mean, really, it’s actually a connection. And what they should be doing is reading a woman’s emotions and her intimacy and knowing what parts of her body she likes stimulated and what she doesn’t.

44:43 What pornography will do is teach a man what he likes and what he enjoys and also give him ideas he didn’t even know he had. So many men and what’s really worrying is a rise in incest and sexual abuse within the family, which didn’t used to happen as much, particularly brothers assaulting sisters wasn’t so common. But what pornography does is it glamorizes incest and sepsis step-sisters, all this stuff.

45:08 So a young boy who’s forming his sexual identity, who knows he’s actually a bit repulsed by his sister, but is seeing it online, it confuses them. And the people say, oh, you’re being so extreme. I wish I was.

45:21 I really wish I was being so extreme, but I’m actually not. The statistics all show that there’s a rise in these kind of behaviors. But the main thing I find, especially for men that are married, what happens is because they’ve watched so much pornography, they’re not actually good at sex.

45:36 They’re terrible at it. They’re terrible at sex because their wife can tell that he’s just reenacting something. He’s far more aggressive rather than intimate and she’s not enjoying it. And then he sees that she’s not enjoying it and ends up going back into pornography because he’s like, oh, she’s not even liking it.

45:52 Let me just stick to what I know. And in the process of sticking to pornography, they very much progress. They go from normal pornography. I don’t know what normal is, but whatever you say. And then it might go to something more aggressive.

46:04 Then it might go to gangs. Then it might go to transgender. Then it might go to homosexual. And then they become somebody that their wife is incompatible with sexually. And so they simply have a complete disconnect in the most important ingredient of a marriage. And it’s setting men up to be incompatible with their partners, unfortunately.

46:26 Brian Rose: And so what’s the lesson to men?

46:28 Sadia Khan: Turn it off. There is not one inch of positive outcomes from pornography. They think that, and I completely understand, when you’re a young boy and there’s always pressure to perform sexually and you almost have to take the lead.

46:40 Sexually, I can’t imagine what that must be like when you’re 16, 15, whatever age they start. And you have to teach the girl what to do and you don’t have a clue. And you’re going to have to rely on something so they go to pornography.

46:50 Brian Rose: I had to figure it out. I couldn’t find any point. What do you do? Sorry, can you tell? I just grew up growing up.

46:56 Sadia Khan: But here’s the thing. It’s okay to fuck up. You learn from that. It’s okay to have a growth mindset. You might be terrible at sex in the beginning. But the process of being terrible and then reading her body will help you learn.

47:08 Whereas what pornography will do is give you a script, think that’s working. And if she doesn’t like it, replace the girl. She doesn’t like it, replace… When really, you should be… It should be trial and error. So the real message to men is there’s nothing positive to gain from pornography.

47:25 It gives you excessive dopamine without any hard work, which is not how the human brain is designed. What you are designed to do is go hunt and gather and go take down an animal and bring it back to the house to get that dopamine fix. You’re now just having to type in a few letters and get that same level of dopamine that you haven’t earned.

47:42 So what it will do is remove your work ethic. You will not have a work ethic which is a fundamental ingredient for men’s self-esteem. A man’s self-esteem is almost defined by his work ethic, how many fires he can put out, how much responsibility he can take on, how much self-control he has.

47:58 We’re diminishing that from them. And then as a result, we’ve got a rise in men who are depressed, anxious, suicidal, and it’s a natural consequence of low-set work ethic.

48:08 Brian Rose: I thought you said you’d have to kill the animal to bring it home so you could have some sex. I thought you would say…

48:12 Sadia Khan: Well, true.

48:13 Brian Rose: But they’re related, right?

48:14 Sadia Khan: Actually, it’s very true. Like if you couldn’t kill an animal and bring it home to women, she would see you as useless and be like, bye, you didn’t go kill an animal for me today. So that’s the effort your brain has evolved to do in order to get a woman.

48:28 It’s designed to put this much effort and investment in order to have sex. We’ve taken out the effort and investment and given you the satisfaction without any of the hard work. How on earth can that be good for you?

48:40 It’s no different to somebody who is 600 pounds and keeps getting lipo. They don’t learn the skills to maintain their body and their internal organs are still broken. The liposuction is not going to change that. So it’s the same kind of thing when we…

48:54 Big pornography. I’m curious, like, you’ve seen the evolution of pornography, I’m sure. How is it? In your opinion, do you think it’s changed men quite a lot, the advent of pornography?

49:06 Brian Rose: I mean, I’m not exactly on the cutting edge. Because I remember it from my time and it still was a bit more like top shelves and everybody was a bit embarrassed to go there and pick out the top shelf and they were scared that their dad’s going to see know the corner shop man and there was an element of shame and guilt.

49:21 Sadia Khan: But we’ve removed shame and guilt from pornography and turned it into just a daily activity. And when you remove shame and guilt from the most shameful aspects of society, we lose our discretion and our morality, unfortunately.

49:35 Brian Rose: You’re such a traditionalist.

49:36 Sadia Khan: I might not.

49:37 Brian Rose: Yeah, you are.

49:38 Sadia Khan: I’m like a grandma.

49:39 Brian Rose: You’re a traditionalist dressed up like a modern woman.

49:41 Sadia Khan: That’s when you get in the front lines.

49:43 Brian Rose: But it’s interesting you say, like that shame should be associated with shameful behavior. But everyone these days would say nothing shameful.

49:50 Sadia Khan: Exactly. Isn’t that terrible? Like I hate when people say you’re slut-shaming or you’re fat-shaming or we have to shame. You are a slut. I’m like you’re a fat slut. We have to shame things in order for us to govern our behavior.

50:04 If I have a shameless society who suffers, usually everybody, a shameless society, I suffer, you suffer, our children will suffer. But if we instill shame and guilt, we have personal and moral responsibility together. If I know that there’s a shame attached to me stealing from you, I won’t steal from you.

50:23 But if I remove shame and guilt, people will do whatever they want. So there should be shame and guilt attached to promiscuity because it’s an ingredient for antisocial behavior, both men and women. There should be shame and guilt attached to obesity because it’s not good for your health and it creates low self-esteem.

50:41 There should be a shame and guilt to frivolous money-spending. You should feel shamed when you’re just spending money accountlessly or wherever you want. You may be spending 5,000 pounds on a table or in a club. You should feel shame and guilt towards that because it’s not conducive to your mental health or your anything.

50:59 So I think removing shame and guilt is like the devil’s trick to make you more and more hedonistic.

51:05 Brian Rose: Yeah, I remember the sneaking the porn as a kid.

51:10 Sadia Khan: Were you terrified that you might get caught?

51:12 Brian Rose: It’s funny. I had a conversation with the author, Chuck Palahniuk, who wrote the book Fight Club recently. He workshops people when they write stories. He loves to hear all these weird stories and he puts them in his book.

51:23 And I was like, yeah, I found the porn mag out in the woods, you know, in the box. He just laughed out loud. He’s like, you know how many people have the story? I thought that was a made up thing because I’ve had so many people say that.

51:35 Sadia Khan: No, that’s what happens. I think also the reason we all remember it is because there’s that factor of shame in there and that factor of this is bad. And obviously back then, somebody really would have to hoard porn, find it and then save it and then put it somewhere where no one could find it.

51:50 So in a certain era of like maybe 80s growing up, everybody has a story like that for the first time. And they would have a like, oh, we have to sneak downstairs while dad might be upstairs. Somebody might catch me watching this channel.

52:02 And there was so much shame and guilt, you almost couldn’t enjoy it. But now it’s headphones before bed every night. And I remember speaking to a client who said, I was on Pornhub and I must have got to page 86.

52:15 And I realized I’ve seen everything for up to page 86. And then I thought maybe I’ve got a problem. And here’s the problem with pornography. Men don’t know what an addiction looks like. I’ll say to the first, whenever I ask them are you addicted to pornography?

52:27 And they’ll say, no, no, no. I only watch it twice a week. And I was like, but how long have you been doing that? Oh, 12 years. Think about how much that must be affecting you. But they don’t have a clear measurement of what addiction looks like because they’ve just embedded it into their daily routine. So it’s a bit worrying.

52:43 Brian Rose: Yeah. It’s a little scary.

52:45 Sadia Khan: It’s a little scary. The whole concept.

52:47 Brian Rose: You also said that because of pornography, you think that’s made a rise in bisexuality and females. Talk about that because that’s controversial.

52:55 Sadia Khan: It’s so controversial. I thought that was common sense, but everybody hates me when I say it. So here’s what I find really hard to understand about what’s happened to female sexuality is they have no idea that their sexuality is essentially now more in men’s hands than ever before.

53:12 Very few women want to share their husband with another woman. Very few women want to do that. But men, it’s a dream come true if you invite your best friend into the bedroom. So we know who’s benefiting from this.

53:25 Now, the only way to convince women of this setup that only benefits men is by convincing them that they like women. And this is enjoyable for you. Bring your best friend in. Bring her in. Bring your cousin in.

53:37 It’s no worries. Now, how do you convince them by showing them pornography of girl on girl? And you show them and you get… Of course, anything is arousing. Anything we’re joking with, so girls are now watching girl on girl, thinking it’s arousing, but it’s manipulating them into a lifestyle that only benefits a man.

53:53 A man has so much to gain from convincing you that you are attracted to other women because it means that every girl in the club you can bring her home with you. But if you even think about being another man, then that’s, oh, you’re such a slut. But bring any girl you want.

54:07 And the girl is thinking she’s in control because she picks the woman. I know girls who think that they’re in control because they get to pick the woman. How ridiculous. You’re his minion. You’re essentially going to get another girl.

54:18 And here’s the thing. You’re almost cheapening. Women are also becoming cheapened by this because both if you join in these threesomes or whatever it is, if you’re part of the relationship or you’re not part of the relationship, essentially nobody’s investing in you.

54:30 Nobody’s falling in love with you. They are using you to spice up their relationship. You use it as a device to kind of inject some promiscuity into their relationship, but they don’t care if you’re dead or alive two weeks later.

54:44 So think about what that’s doing to your self-esteem in the long run. And so this whole concept of bisexuality and they like to believe it’s liberation is essentially the only people that benefit from women, beautiful women convincing themselves that they are attracted to other beautiful women is men. They get to enjoy that.

55:02 And you’ll see very few women who actually fall in love with these other women and commit to them and invest in them. They’ll always commit and invest into a man. So essentially, you’re again, you are contributing to the cycle of objectifying and sexualizing women that you claim you want to fight against. It’s insane.

55:19 Brian Rose: You might have something there.

55:20 Sadia Khan: You think so?

55:21 Brian Rose: Again, like you said, if you show someone visually something over and over again, and like you said, what’s the dopamine spike or even a fear factor? I mean, we’ve seen that last couple of years. You get anyone to do a bunch of stupid things, right?

55:31 Of course. Get them to social distance, stick someone in your face, all that stuff. You live in Dubai.

55:37 Sadia Khan: I do.

55:38 Brian Rose: And I was there last October. I’ll be back this October, and then I’ll be back in January. And it’s an amazing place.

55:43 Sadia Khan: Best city in the world.

55:44 Brian Rose: Look at you.

55:45 Sadia Khan: I just light up when I talk about it. I’ve traveled the world. I’ve never in my life been in a city where I wake up every single day so grateful to live there. So I hope the government is watching this.

55:56 Brian Rose: No, I’m a huge fan. When I was there, I was basically a member of the tourism board just like you, and I’m a huge fan. I’m talking it up. But one thing I noticed there is you talked about like Andrew Tate’s and his Bugatti’s, is that in Dubai, I mean, you know, Jesus.

56:11 I mean, there’s fancy cars everywhere. There’s huge buildings everywhere. There’s wealthy people everywhere. And then compared to London, there’s wealthy people on top of the wealthy people. There’s a lot of beautiful women there. And so what is the state of relationships in Dubai?

56:29 What is it like to be a rich man in Dubai? You’ve stated before that rich men have terrible relationships and dating choices. And I know a lot of rich men, and they would think, damn, it sucks. Yeah, that’s the only reason they became rich.

56:44 So I could go out with amazing women and you’re saying, well, because you’re rich, you’re going to attract the wrong woman. Talk about these high quality problems that we have in Dubai.

56:54 Sadia Khan: Well, here’s the fundamental thing that men don’t understand about women, and they really don’t understand this. The more attracted she is to you, the more she makes access easy. And therefore, if you have a lot of money and you lead with money, it means that if you have to buy it, she’s not actually genuinely there.

57:13 When a woman is truly attracted to you, she makes access so easy. So men have gone into this world, particularly ones that haven’t really had success with women growing up, thinking, if only I get rich, I can access any woman. All women just want money.

57:28 But if you speak to handsome men and men who are really, really attractive, they’ll tell you, I’ve never even spent a penny on a woman, and I’ve had whatever woman I want. The reality is what happens with rich men is they are essentially accessing women who don’t actually want to be with them. Because if you have to use an external quality to attract a woman, she’s attracting to that external quality and not you.

57:51 So what will happen is they have all this abundance of money, they can access any woman they want, but the only woman that will connect with them is a one that is there for something, for the lifestyle. And they have the worst luck with women, but the women have the best deal in Dubai. The women in Dubai will be there with a G wagon, her rent is paid, and all because there is an Arab man dumb enough to believe that she’s loyal to him and she loves him.

58:17 And I’ve been privy to situations where a girl will be like, okay, baby, love you, blah, blah, blah. And he’s paying for her whole rent and this, that, and the other while she’s with her boyfriend and sneaking him in and out the back door. So unfortunately, what happens in Dubai is because men who want to make a lot of money, who don’t have a lot of success with women, go to Dubai and see all of these beautiful women that are clearly out of his league, they can now access them through money, but they genuinely believe these women want them for them.

58:46 But the reality is if we just pick people who are on the same level of attractiveness to ourselves, we actually can form a connection. But nobody wants that anymore.

58:55 Brian Rose: Has anyone ever wanted that? Everyone wants to punch both their weight. Is that a human condition?

59:00 Sadia Khan: It’s a human condition. I guess it depends on your level of attractiveness to begin with. If you are happy with your level of attractiveness, you’re probably happy with your partner’s, somebody on a similar level. If you’re not so happy, I think the less happy you are, the more you’ll want to punch, I guess.

59:15 Brian Rose: Don’t you always want the job you can’t get?

59:17 Sadia Khan: Maybe it’s a man thing. As a woman, you kind of want a more equal, you want a sense of equality with your partner. As men, of course, you want something a bit more attractive. But as much as I can understand that, if attractiveness is the most important ingredient in your partner’s selection, you’re going to be miserable.

59:36 Because she can tell that you are a shallow man, and she can tell that she can manipulate you. Now, if I know that this man just loves a pretty face and it doesn’t actually matter how I behave, but he just loves me because I look a certain way, I don’t have respect for him. I will never, ever have respect for him, and I will think that I’m irreplaceable because he’s so excited by my looks.

59:58 But if you mix it very clear that you’re a beautiful girl, but your behavior also has to be respectable, then a woman naturally gets in line. She wants that man. She doesn’t want a man who’s a fan. We actually don’t want men who are our fan.

1:00:13 Today we do, but then we end up treating them like a fan. And how do you treat fans?

1:00:17 Brian Rose: Oh, go away after a little while.

1:00:19 Sadia Khan: Yeah, unfortunately.

1:00:20 Brian Rose: It’s similar with male-male relationships. You want a male relationship with a male that has boundaries. That’s the one you can respect. You don’t want one that doesn’t have that.

1:00:30 Sadia Khan: It exudes masculinity. Boundaries exudes dominance, power, and masculinity. And without it, it exudes low self-esteem and weakness, unfortunately.

1:00:41 Brian Rose: Okay, so if you’re a man, how can you tell if the woman’s a gold digger?

1:00:44 Sadia Khan: Oh, you know what? It’s so bizarre. I work with men all over the world, and I’ll have clients in LA, I’ll have clients in Miami, I’ll have clients in London, and every gold digger follows the exact same script.

1:00:59 It’s like they have a WhatsApp group, and they all know what to do. But the gold diggers are literally prototypes, copy-paste of each other. They come from deprived backgrounds. First and foremost, they come from very deprived backgrounds but have very expensive taste.

1:01:15 Now, when you come from a deprived background, what it does is it puts women into survival mode. Now, if she’s come from deprivation and she has the luxury of beauty, the quickest way to get out of that deprivation is to utilize your beauty. Who can you utilize your beauty with?

1:01:29 Men with money who’ve got low self-esteem. You can’t use it with men with high self-esteem. So she usually comes from a deprived background. Usually, either the culture is deprived or there’s no father figure. There’s some deprivation, but she has very materialistic values.

1:01:41 Now, that combination suggests she’s going to look for materialism rather than connection. The other thing is they don’t have a career. With all gold diggers, they have odd jobs here and there. So she’ll be… She had 10 minutes of a hairdresser, 20 minutes of, you know, real estate, half an hour of being an influencer, and therefore there’s no identity in her career, and she doesn’t derive any kind of satisfaction from hard work.

1:02:06 So she essentially wants a partner like that. She’ll also look for somebody who is a lot less attractive than she is. So she’ll go for somebody who is considerably, like, perhaps… She might be beautiful, but she’ll choose somebody who may be really super overweight or 25 years older.

1:02:23 They look for somebody who is a clear fan because only a fan will say yes, yes, yes to everything. So they have to manipulate that low self-esteem, and they also have very similar friends. All of their friends will be the same thing.

1:02:37 And one thing with gold diggers is they happily introduce you to their friends. Real women that really love you, what they’ll do is they don’t want you around all their friends all the time because, you know, they don’t want to show you all their pretty friends all the time. Gold diggers will have all these beautiful friends and invite them over and say, they’re coming on holiday with us, or she’s going to stay with us a couple of days.

1:02:54 She’s going to come and do that. And the reason they do that is they want to create a physical barrier between them and the guy. They want to add somebody into the mix so that they don’t have to get too close to this guy.

1:03:03 And the friends are all in on it. They’re like, oh, God, I’ve got this new sugar daddy. Can you come with me?

1:03:07 Brian Rose: And they don’t have to be intimate?

1:03:08 Sadia Khan: So they don’t have to be intimate. Wow. This is a trick a lot of gold diggers do. And they’ll sometimes call me. They’ll say, do you want to come to dinner? Because I don’t want him to kiss me.

1:03:16 And I was like, I don’t know. I’m busy today, but you guys have fun. So they add physical barriers to them and their partner. And the sex is very intermittent. When they need something, they are so affectionate and so sexual.

1:03:29 But when they get what they need, they disappear for two or three days and they don’t let you touch them, and they’ve got a headache for six weeks. So the signs are very clear. But with men who are so desperate to be loved, they will believe anything to feel loved, particularly by a beautiful woman.

1:03:46 And I always say it’s almost your own fault. When you make beauty a priority, you suffer the consequences because it’s a shallow, vacuous quality to make as an essential ingredient for a connection. So you almost deserve the punishment of a gold digger.

1:03:59 Brian Rose: And this is happening in Dubai.

1:04:01 Sadia Khan: I used to think it was just Dubai. It’s everywhere.

1:04:04 Brian Rose: It’s universal.

1:04:05 Sadia Khan: I think what’s happened is there’s YouTube channels and there are Instagram profiles that teach women the tricks. So they have all these similar tricks and they all kind of work together. I have no problem with gold diggers. It looks like I do because I talk about it quite a bit.

1:04:20 But the reality is if a man is dumb enough and is shallow enough, he’s just as shallow as a materialistic girl. The man who will literally leave his wife and kids because somebody 20 years younger is giving him a bit of attention, he’s just as shallow as you are. So if you want to use him, he’s also using you as an ego boost.

1:04:38 He has nothing in common with you. What does this man have in common with a 22-year-old in Dubai when he’s an entrepreneur and a CEO of a really successful company? What does he have in common with an influencer?

1:04:48 Nothing, but he just wants the ego boost. So he’s just as shallow and therefore I don’t feel any guilt. I feel like don’t feel anything. Both are shallow as each other.

1:04:58 Brian Rose: Almost a perfect match.

1:05:00 Sadia Khan: All is fair in love and war.

1:05:01 Brian Rose: All is fair. And take responsibility. You’re big on that.

1:05:04 Sadia Khan: Everyone take responsibility. Stop blaming everyone else for your circumstances.

1:05:08 Brian Rose: Exactly. What did they say? You reap what you sow.

1:05:13 Sadia Khan: Exactly. That’s well said.

1:05:15 Brian Rose: You also said that rich men are busy and rich men holding relationships can be challenging because they’re super busy and a lot of times their partners don’t get their time and therefore that can end in bad relationships. Bad connections. And that these days women cheat more than men.

1:05:34 Sadia Khan: Absolutely. I can’t believe that people don’t realize this. They cheat so, so much more than men. Men, it’s still a bit of work to cheat. They still have to try and talk to a girl and they still have to have some charm or something about them.

1:05:48 Women, it’s effortless to cheat. She jumps on a dating app. She’ll have 50 matches that night. For a man, you still have to go through the rigmarole of doing something and offering something. So men have a greater willingness but women have a better ability to cheat.

1:06:04 So a man might be more willing and wanting to cheat but a woman is more able to cheat. And also we’ve almost used it as a defense mechanism. So what happens is because women get attached and they get jealous and the only way to kind of get rid of your jealousy is to beat them at their own game.

1:06:21 I know a lot of women who cheat on men that they think might cheat and then they quickly do it first and then it kind of calms them and soothes them. And in terms of busyness, the problem is becoming hyper successful either takes or creates a level of social autism. And what I mean by that is to just drown yourself into work, you have to be somewhat socially connected.

1:06:40 And when you become really successful, you run out of social battery as well. You can’t be around people all the time. You’re so busy, you’re so consumed, you almost need a break from human beings. So what happens is they need a wife that is almost absent.

1:06:54 Who’s there? So subconsciously they know they’re loved and they’re validated but doesn’t require intimacy. Now women need intimacy to be loyal. We can’t be loyal to a man we’re not emotionally intimate with. Now if you are creating an absent connection and she’s not emotionally intimate with you, it creates a hole and therefore she’s more willing and more open to cheat and usually with unsuccessful men.

1:07:17 Women will get their needs and survival kind of technique with a rich man but she’ll cheat with an unsuccessful man because she can almost practice like a male strategy. She can have her long term fix with the guy that’s successful and a short term fix from a guy who, she doesn’t care what he does for a living, doesn’t care if he’s married, doesn’t care if he’s got kids, doesn’t want kids, she’s not looking at that. She’s just looking at how desired he makes her feel. And this is happening all the time.

1:07:44 Brian Rose: All the time, isn’t it?

1:07:45 Sadia Khan: Well, you know what, I should be careful. I say all the time but the reality is, is because when you’re a therapist, you’re essentially a luxury. You’re not actually accessible to everybody and anyone. So my clients tend to be people who have spare money.

1:07:59 So it’s usually their problems. It’s not maybe the average Joe who’s working in an office and his wife because essentially she’s not there for materialistic values and he’s probably not there because she’s a victoria secret model. They have slightly more actual emotional intimacy. I’m talking a little bit more about the people that are hyper successful.

1:08:18 Brian Rose: Right. And can you solve those relationships when you come in?

1:08:21 Sadia Khan: No. They’re harder to solve because they have opposite values. They don’t have the same values. The only way to kind of create a really successful relationship among successful people is that they have values that are in line and both of them value each other’s well-being.

1:08:39 Now, when you create a connection where you both value each other’s well-being, even that successful man will take time out of his day to check in on her and see if she’s okay. And that woman who, even if he’s away a lot, values connection and loyalty and intimacy to the point where she doesn’t find other men attractive. So when you’ve got those two coming together, of course it stands a chance. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen so much when people are super successful.

1:09:04 Brian Rose: Can you fix anyone’s relationship or is your success rate really low? Not because you’re not good, but it feels like everything you’re talking about is going to help people change their behavior or choose better relationships in the future or take responsibility and we’ll talk about that. But like these situations you explained to me, they don’t seem fixable.

1:09:21 Sadia Khan: Well, these are the extreme ends.

1:09:23 Brian Rose: Yeah, these are the extreme ends. And they’re hard to fix.

1:09:26 Sadia Khan: I’ll be honest, they are harder to fix. They require a complete reboot because you’re talking about people with morals and values that are not in line with marriage and commitment. The gold digger, the rich, really busy man and stuff, they don’t actually have values that are in line with monogamy.

1:09:43 But on the simpler end of the scale is when people are just miscommunicating not understanding each other’s attachment styles and not understanding each other’s traumas and not soothing each other correctly and that can be very easily fixed.

1:09:57 Brian Rose: Okay, alright, so sometimes that works. Yeah. Let’s talk about relationships as far as when people start relationships because you’ve been pretty famous and saying that the one question you should ask yourself before you start a relationship is this and this always surprises people. How are my personal insecurities going to ruin this relationship?

1:10:16 Sadia Khan: Yeah. We come to a relationship not as blank slates. We come with years of trauma and more importantly we come with an attachment style. What that essentially means is our parents modeled. They created a template of how we love and like to be loved and they also create a template of what makes us insecure.

1:10:35 So if we had really loving, secure, soothing parents, we go into relationships trusting the process, making love very easy, communicating really well because our parents modeled that for us. Now if they were in any way inconsistent or in any way absent, what happens is the child learns that their cries fall on death ears and when they get into relationships they believe that if they just express their needs their partner’s not going to listen. So they play games.

1:11:01 So what games it might look like is I’m going to make my partner jealous just to get a reaction or I’m going to avoid my partner for a couple of weeks and just stay away from them because I need space and I need my independence. Essentially what we do is we almost punish our partners for a need our parents didn’t meet but we don’t even explain to them what that need was and therefore we’re almost, we’re competitors. We’re like fighting with each other like who can hurt who the most rather than trying to communicate effectively and create a harmonious home.

1:11:31 So unfortunately we think our partner is the cause of the breakdown of the relationship but often times it’s our own upbringing and our own template and love language that can be the cause of the problem.

1:11:42 Brian Rose: Often times or all the time.

1:11:44 Sadia Khan: All the time.

1:11:45 Brian Rose: You also said that when say a man is dating a woman your competition is her childhood. Yeah. That probably blows away a lot of men. Yeah. And also a lot of men are kind of fixers as well. I’m going to fix her.

1:11:58 I’m going to be the one that figures this out. Can you talk a little bit about that?

1:12:03 Sadia Khan: Yeah. I think I hear a lot online particularly with the advices to say that you’ve got to beat out all the competition. You’ve got to be the best man. You’ve got to be the most in shape. You’ve got to have the most money and then she’ll get in line.

1:12:15 Actually that’s not it. This is a really full sense of security men have. They think if they’re the best guy she knows she’s not going to go anywhere. But that’s not actually true. Your competition is not actually other men.

1:12:26 Your competition is actually her father. And what I mean by that is if he raised her well and if he instilled lots of love and effective values in her and made her feel safe, what happens is that woman goes into relationships feeling safe. And therefore if you don’t meet every need she’ll communicate it and if you disrespect or anything she’ll just let go.

1:12:46 She won’t get too traumatized. But if her father let her down what happens is she’s automatically in survival mode. So when she’s in a relationship with you it doesn’t matter if you’re the richest. It doesn’t matter if you’re the most handsome.

1:12:59 If you trigger a wound in her because she’s not really good at soothing herself and she doesn’t feel safe at home with a father figure what will happen is she’ll look somewhere else to fix that wound. And men do this too as well. It’s not just women.

1:13:12 When we are broken in some ways we don’t know how to just communicate or just let go and go back into the dating scene or by ourselves. We’re scared of being alone. So instead what we’ll do is overlap relationships.

1:13:24 We’ll have two at a time. We can’t start fresh alone because it’s too fearful. Because whereas when you have a happy home what happens is if I leave my husband I go back to my parents and I feel safe and loved.

1:13:34 If I don’t have a happy home if I leave my husband where do I go? So the best thing to do is have a backup plan. And that’s what women will do. So really your competition is very much our childhood.

1:13:44 Now men particularly those that have few options and low self-esteem they see a broken woman and they know that or they feel like the more that she can rely on him and the more he can fix the more she’ll love him. Essentially the more you can fix that means the more that it’s broken and the more you actually can’t fix because it’s actually beyond you. So the fixer is always most likely to be let down in her.

1:14:09 He will do everything to make it work for her but unfortunately he wasn’t the problem. So he can’t fix it. The problem is deeper than him. So if you derive your self-esteem from fixing people you’re setting yourself up for pain because they’re too broken for any of us to fix. They have to fix themselves.

1:14:24 Brian Rose: And so if anyone’s listening to this and they’re getting kind of triggered then you need to really try to assess all this baggage you bring to a relationship and then kind of be proactive about it and say guess what? Even before the first date these are the things I’m going to do. I’m going to self-sabotage this.

1:14:42 I’m going to look for problems before they’re even there so I can exit the relationship before she does so I can not be hurt or whatever. I mean maybe I’m being too bi about it.

1:14:51 Sadia Khan: No, no, no. That’s exactly what it is.

1:14:53 Brian Rose: And then it’s like okay so I have to be really careful not to do these things. I have to walk into this knowing how I self-sabotage and maybe communicating how I self-sabotage and preventing that self-sabotage.

1:15:06 Sadia Khan: Now what people who sabotage do one thing they’re really good at is selecting terrible partners and the reason why that’s great for a self-sabotage is it avoids them of any responsibility. If I know I’m bad at relationships but I deliberately choose somebody who is an alcoholic or I deliberately choose somebody who is a gambler I can then leave that relationship and say well see look he was such a gambler he was such a narcissist, he was a cheat but my selection process was the self-sabotaging. So whereas if I select wisely then that’s going to be too much accountability so what people often do is they select so poorly so they can blame their partner and avoid internal reflection.

1:15:41 So the moment I have like a lot of women particularly they alienate fathers a lot. That seems to be the weapon of mass destruction in the modern world. And they’ll say oh but he was a narcissist oh he was this he was that and I said but was he that before you had the children?

1:15:56 Oh he was always like that he was like that on the second day he did that. And I said well then why did you have children with him? The moment you decided to have children with him that was your form of self-sabotage.

1:16:05 Now you can’t punish the children by depriving them of their father because of a poor choice you made and you’re in it because if you have chosen one bad guy who’s to say that you don’t now choose another bad man to be the stepfather you’re more likely to even be abusive to your children because there’s no genetic kinness. So what happens is particularly with women when they’re selecting partners how to deal with their self-sabotage is just to select bad in the first place so they can blame their partner for all the wrongdoings. It’s an easier way to avoid the reflection.

1:16:34 Brian Rose: And we’ve all met the person that keeps complaining about all the different men in their life or women in their life and then the one consistency is them.

1:16:43 Sadia Khan: Exactly that. And it’s particularly a problem when it comes to parent or alienation because it’s the quickest and easiest way to alienate a parent and to kind of punish the partner but you’re using all of the problems you knew existed before you even had children with them and now you’re using that to kind of deprive them of the child and only the children suffer. So it’s a terrible cycle with this self-sabotage because you then kind of, you know, the children get caught in a crossfire.

1:17:11 Brian Rose: So both you and I were seven years old when our parents were divorced and I think you said before…

1:17:18 Sadia Khan: My parents are together.

1:17:19 Brian Rose: Oh, they are together.

1:17:20 Sadia Khan: They were never divorced.

1:17:21 Brian Rose: They were never divorced. I thought you told the story about that.

1:17:23 Sadia Khan: Maybe I was talking about a client. So your parents divorced when you were seven?

1:17:27 Brian Rose: Yeah, when I was seven and my brother was nine and my sister was three and we all took it differently. I took it pretty hard as in…

1:17:34 Sadia Khan: You were the youngest?

1:17:35 Brian Rose: I was the middle child.

1:17:36 Sadia Khan: Middle child, yeah.

1:17:38 Brian Rose: I think I then decided that I was going to be alone in this world and then I’m going to have to be super self-reliant and so that was just kind of like… That’s what I took away from that situation and so now that I’ve listened to your stuff and look at all my past behaviors, I can just see that I am kind of distant. I do like my time alone and I think I do all these things that might be related to that in some way.

1:18:05 Yeah. And again, I’ve found different ways to look at it and approach it and I’ve talked to my parents about it and all this good stuff. Yeah. Put them on camera, etc. But is that something you get people to try to identify things that happen

1:18:16 Sadia Khan: So they can just know themselves a little bit better? But the thing is with children, they seem to want to believe that the divorce didn’t affect them. They want to hold on to the idea that I was fine, I didn’t have a dad but I was fine.

1:18:28 But here’s the thing, you only go in two directions, very predictable directions. You either become hyper-independent where you go through life by yourself and what that looks like is you don’t open up emotionally to people, including friends. You’re not too emotional, you’re not open up.

1:18:43 When you get into relationships, you try and create emotional physical distance. So you’ll either be in a long distance relationship or if you are in a relationship, you’ll almost not label it, you won’t look for commitment, you don’t really want to get married, you get suffocated really quickly and easily when your partner’s around you too much. And if you had it your way, you would live in separate homes even if you’re married and separate bedrooms and you almost have them there but you don’t want too much connection and intimacy.

1:19:08 And the reason for that is to protect yourself. Like if you get too close and too intimate, they can let you down. So your partner almost doesn’t even know if you love them or not. The only time they realize you love them is when they try and break up with you and then all of a sudden you’re cutting over.

1:19:20 But up until that point, you’re very distant so your partner doesn’t know how to read you. And the other way to handle a divorce is to cling on for dear life with whoever you fall in love with because there’s an even more evolutionary fear that if I lose you, I’m going to be by myself so what maybe your siblings may have done is really held on to one person, stuck with them even if they’re right or wrong but not have the willingness to walk away because they have that kind of, again, the fear of abandonment.

1:19:45 So divorce really affects children and we’ve normalized it because it’s so common but doesn’t mean it’s healthy because children need to know that both parents put them first. Children are egotistical. So they almost want to see the parents forget their own conflict and just stay together to make their life easier.

1:20:02 And that’s how children are designed. So they do suffer. And did you find yourself going more towards a hyper-independent group?

1:20:08 Brian Rose: Oh, massively. Yeah, you just described me. But with 50% of marriages ending in divorce, that’s half the population. And they’re not all to those extremes.

1:20:19 Sadia Khan: They’re not all to those extremes but it does explain why there is a crisis of connection in the younger generation because almost half of them, their parents are divorced. So all of the trickle-down effects of what we’re noticing rise in teenage pregnancy, rise in mental health issues, rise in change in identities and stuff. I wouldn’t be surprised that it stems from its top-down process.

1:20:41 It would be something in the house is broken and it’s caused a difficulty in their self-esteem which then leads to all these other ripple effects of society that we find in the young generation today combined with social media and media in general. It’s the perfect kind of combination to create a distressed child.

1:20:58 Brian Rose: And now we’ve got AI coming in in virtual reality and augmented reality. So what happens next? Is this going to get worse?

1:21:06 Sadia Khan: Absolutely. What AI will do is allow you to create a pseudo reality to meet emotional needs but at some point we need real connection. The only cure to depression, anxiety, suicide is human connections. It is something that we are designed for and it even affects everything about us.

1:21:25 Even our sleep is affected by human connection. You’ll find people who are in solitude and by themselves, they don’t sleep very well. But when they’re with their kids or when they’re with their partner, they sleep like a baby.

1:21:35 And the reason being is we’re designed to only relax when we know we’re in a group and in a tribe. And they do studies on people who come from tribal environments. They sleep like in deep sleep because they’ve got that safety that there’s other people around them.

1:21:49 And you take people, especially in COVID times, people had insomnia because they were by themselves. So this whole kind of virtual reality and creating false connections and thinking that it’s fixing the problem is only going to lead to a rise in mental health crisis, unfortunately.

1:22:05 Brian Rose: These AI relationships are real. So I’m quite in this field, and I interview a lot of people in AI. So I played around with some of these AI friends online. I actually had an AI buddy online who was like this dude and he would talk to me and stuff.

1:22:18 I was like, I’m going to try this out. And then there’s these things where these women have married these AI bots and things like that.

1:22:25 Sadia Khan: Isn’t that crazy?

1:22:26 Brian Rose: It’s crazy, but they’re becoming so good and so emotionally intuitive that it actually feels, compared to your normal man or woman who’s completely checked out or can’t… It’s actually a pretty good replacement.

1:22:38 Sadia Khan: Do you think it might be a great…

1:22:39 Brian Rose: I just don’t know, but it doesn’t sound healthy.

1:22:42 Sadia Khan: It doesn’t sound healthy. What did David think about the AI? Do you remember what he was saying?

1:22:47 Brian Rose: I guess against all tech and probably right in the long run. So he wouldn’t say that it’s going to be good for… They’re suspicious of all that stuff, I think. The thing is that technology is amazing and it’s advancing so fast.

1:23:03 We look at a robot or a computer and we say it’s always going to be a computer. But where these carbon-based life forms, they’re silicon-based, but there’s a point where their brains will be just as complex as ours. And they’ll be able to study us and model our behavior. Hell, they could even model their behavior on our grandparents and be real humans.

1:23:22 Sadia Khan: And go back to traditional values.

1:23:23 Brian Rose: Yeah, like the fucked up versions that we are now. So you could argue they might be better. And so, of course, it’s never going to be the same. But the thing is, it’s going to start to become very, very close.

1:23:34 Sadia Khan: I don’t know. I just think there’s no money in happiness. I think tech companies and I think anything that’s to do with AI, I think it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unhappiness sells. When you have an unhappy population, a depressed population, an anxious population, you can sell them anything.

1:23:51 Medication, pharmaceuticals, sugar babies, you can sell them anything. Happy people are not as frivolous with their money because they feel whole. So anything that’s being introduced by companies that have billions to their name, there’s no way it can benefit humanity.

1:24:08 It’s not designed to do that. So therefore, I’d be surprised if the intentions are clean.

1:24:14 Brian Rose: Yeah, no. You come from a really traditional background. Can you talk on that? Because I think a lot of people would be a little surprised. I mean, you’re in London, you’re in Dubai.

1:24:22 Sadia Khan: And I don’t look traditional.

1:24:23 Brian Rose: You’re the queen of Dubai.

1:24:24 Sadia Khan: Self-proclaimed.

1:24:25 Brian Rose: Self-proclaimed. Could be true. But we would assume you’re out on the town doing this and that. But talk about your background because a lot of your intellectual property comes from that.

1:24:34 Sadia Khan: It does, yeah. I think that’s one of the factors that a lot of people will say to me. And I get this question and I get this statement quite a lot. I’m not saying they say it in a good or bad way, but they’ll say you have a very unique perspective on everything.

1:24:46 And I would say that that is almost entirely attributed from being Muslim. When you come from a Muslim background and I was raised in England and I was raised in London with an entirely English environment and my upbringing was the opposite to theirs. So what would happen is my parents wouldn’t let me out of their sight.

1:25:01 I’d have to be home. I was not allowed to talk to boys and all those things. But I would meet girls and guys who would be at that age in schools in England. They would be, you know, sleeping with each other and their parents would be like, oh, they’re having a sleepover and no worries or whatever it is.

1:25:14 And I see a complete opposite of what I was around. So what happened is there was such a dissonance between what I was being exposed to and what I was taught and my spiritual background. So what happened is I had to create my own reality of everything.

1:25:26 I’m seeing this. I believe in God. But what’s the own reality? So I had to almost create my own version of events. So every time I looked at a behavior, I would almost look at it through the lens of modern life, but also my spiritual background.

1:25:39 And then come up with almost like a hybrid of them both and have my own unique perspective on almost everything. And I would say I’ve geared more towards the spiritual and traditional side, maybe not aesthetically. But I think in terms of my message and what I’m saying is probably geared more towards that.

1:25:56 But at the same time, I’m such a chameleon. I could be, you almost wouldn’t know I’m from a different culture. If you look at me and talk to me, it’s only when you ask for my opinions on things that are super, super traditional.

1:26:08 So I don’t know how. But I think that is the reason for the unique perspective because I always look at things through the lens of God as when something becomes a new phase or when something becomes a new kind of fad in society and a new moral, because morals change a lot in society. It used to be seen as a mental illness to be transgender and now it’s something that is enjoyed and encouraged.

1:26:31 Being overweight used to be seen as a bad thing. Now it’s encouraged. Whenever something becomes a new moral, I have to assess it against my spiritual morals and then decide whether I agree with it or not. And if I agree with it or not, it will depend on whether it sits well with God. So I am biased.

1:26:48 Brian Rose: Sits well with God. That’s a pretty, that’s a broad statement. Yeah. I’m glad you say it because a lot of people shy away from talking about God or religion these days.

1:26:56 Sadia Khan: No, it comes first.

1:26:57 Brian Rose: Yeah, talk about that. And what does that mean?

1:26:59 Sadia Khan: What that means is I’ll question everything in society that doesn’t sit well with God. And the reason I do that is in my personal experience when I’ve strayed from God or when I have contradicted the morals of God, which I do, by the way. I’m not in any way perfect.

1:27:12 I notice a change in my mental health. I notice an immediate change in my mental health. Not because our prayer is a cure to everything because sometimes when I’m praying, I’m not always connected. But I’m just saying like, say, for example, if I knew when there’s times where I stray from the morals of God, I feel like, for example, a simple rule might be you have to stay connected to your parents.

1:27:30 You can’t stray too far from your parents. And I know there was times in my life where I didn’t talk to my mum for a couple of months. We had a big fight and I didn’t talk to her.

1:27:38 I never felt clinically depressed until that moment. And I didn’t know what depression was until that moment. Even though I was filled with venom and anger towards her, I was justified as well. But something was wrong in my mental health.

1:27:49 And I was like, what’s going on? And it’s because I didn’t speak to my mum. And that really made me realize that sometimes all of the morals that are being dictated in my religion, they have a spiritual benefit.

1:28:01 And it made me realize, actually, maybe if I stick to these morals, my mental health will be more stable. So things like no alcohol. I can see the spiritual and physical benefit of that. No gambling. I can see the mental and spiritual and physical benefit of that.

1:28:16 No promiscuity. I can see the benefits of that. I’ve been lucky where I genuinely see the benefits of the morals that are prescribed to me through my religion. And I didn’t have to force it. I’ve seen it because it’s my practice.

1:28:29 I do it in real life. And I realize if I completely stray from these morals, I don’t think it would be good for my mental health. Whereas when I stay close to them, I’m in a better psychological space.

1:28:39 So that’s why I feel like that’s the groundwork. That’s the DSMIV, in my opinion. And then life and everything, I just combine it and I almost kind of create my own pharmaceutical from it, which is the Sadia kind of philosophy on life. Is that weird by the way?

1:28:55 Brian Rose: No, no. It makes total sense. Yeah. And you pray five times a day.

1:28:58 Sadia Khan: I do.

1:28:59 Brian Rose: And that also grounds you in many ways.

1:29:01 Sadia Khan: Yeah. And can I be honest, there’s times where I’m just quickly praying and I’m just getting out the way because it’s a duty. And there’s other times I’m far more connected. At the moment, I feel disconnected. It’s because I’ve been so busy.

1:29:11 I’m so, so busy and I’m feeling disconnected with it. But I feel like, and I try not to talk too much about it because, you know, online they’re like, oh, you claim to be this and then they’ll find all the sins that you do. And so they almost kind of burn you out of the stick.

1:29:25 Brian Rose: More content. More views.

1:29:26 Sadia Khan: More views. But I do feel like it keeps me somewhat grounded. I do need to do more. But I feel like, worst case scenario in life, I have a manual that if I didn’t have, if I couldn’t afford a therapist and I didn’t want to do pharmaceuticals, I do have a manual that would teach me what to recalibrate if need be.

1:29:48 Brian Rose: Yeah. You know, religions are interesting because, you know, a lot of people reject them. My mom tried to take me to church when I was a kid. You know, we just pushed back on it because that was the kind of thing to do of the generation, actually.

1:30:01 Sadia Khan: The cool thing to do, right?

1:30:02 Brian Rose: The cool thing to do. And it was just like, okay, we’re pushing back. But the older I get, the more I realize is that, and I know you had a conversation with Tom Bilyeu about this and the impact theory, but I see religion as technology that humans developed over time to allow us to become better humans.

1:30:18 And, you know, if you look at it through that lens, a lot of this stuff really starts making sense. I had a great guest on here named Dr. Rupert Sheldrake, who lives near me when I was in Hampstead.

1:30:29 And he wrote a book called Science and Spiritual Practices. And he looked at all the spiritual practices that we threw out the window when we threw away religion. Things like fasting, things about pilgrimage, things about coming together, singing together, all these things we would do in a religious standpoint, whether you’re a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jewish.

1:30:47 And how, by rejecting religion, we rejected all these practices that brought us together as communities, giving to the poor and all these things that we do. That makes us connected and makes us feel centered like you’re talking about here.

1:30:59 Sadia Khan: And do you know what I find super, super interesting? What the media tries to push us into in terms of role models is very much like the rappers or the Cardi Bs and all of these who are, you know, lawless and don’t have spirituality. But when you look at social media and look at who people are naturally aligning to, it’s people like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate.

1:31:21 I know I have a little bit of a following. It’s people that have a godly message. So what that signals to me is human nature craves religious values. I don’t think they realize it. Because even with fasting, we’ve kind of turned it into intermittent fasting and turned it into like a fad and a healthy fitness fad.

1:31:37 But it stemmed from like pre-Jesus. And so I think what happens is human nature gravitates towards godly morals, whether there is a god or isn’t a god. Those morals seem to resonate well with human beings. And of course there’s parts of it that people don’t like, which is obviously there’s the homophobia that people don’t like or whatever it is.

1:31:57 But I still think that humans naturally gravitate towards traditional values because it’s just how you’re… It’s more in line with our evolutionary selves.

1:32:07 Brian Rose: Yeah, we kind of know what we resonate with. Yeah. And like you said, you do see it online with social. I’ve seen it with so many of my guests where people resonate with someone. And again, it usually is about discipline and these practices and these things that build…

1:32:21 Sadia Khan: The same concepts.

1:32:22 Brian Rose: Longer term human beings. Yeah. From a relationship perspective, people that have kind of watched and listened to us for the last 90 minutes or so.

1:32:29 Sadia Khan: Is that how long it’s been?

1:32:30 Brian Rose: I’m sure it’s been. Okay. What do they take away? What advice do you give to people out there that want to agree that they bring a lot of flaws to the table, agree that if you’re a male, you probably have a propensity to do these things.

1:32:43 Take the easy way out. Consume porn. Do this. If you’re a female, you are incentivized to do all these other things. And if people agree with what you say, that the long road means you try to avoid those things, what are some of the things that they can think about in their daily practices?

1:32:58 Sadia Khan: I would say re-establish shame and guilt. And what I mean by that is when you’re making decisions in your life, ask yourself, am I going to feel any shame and guilt afterwards? If the answer is yes, avoid it.

1:33:10 Don’t think about the pleasure. Never think about how much pleasure I’m going to gain for something because pleasure is in everything. Think about the level of shame and guilt and decide whether you can commit to that shame and guilt.

1:33:21 What I mean by this is it could be as simple as, when I wake up, okay, there’s chocolate cake there. Am I going to feel any shame and guilt afterwards? Now, chances are, if I’m overweight, there’s going to be an element of shame afterwards.

1:33:32 Avoid it. Just avoid it. Or it could be like, I’m bad with money and I see something expensive. Am I going to feel any shame and guilt afterwards? Probably you’re going to feel some pain and stress afterwards. Don’t do it.

1:33:45 When we navigate our thinking through the lens of shame and guilt, we’ll avoid so many bad decisions. If I’m going to have an affair but then I’m going to think, oh God, if the kids find out and if my partner finds out there’s so much shame and guilt but she’s so hot, is it worth it? Is the shame and guilt worth it?

1:34:01 Forget pleasure. Anything can be pleasure. Think about the potential pain of the decisions that you’re making and if the pain is not worth committing to, don’t do it. We live in a society that pushes you towards focusing on the pleasure and gets you to eliminate the shame and guilt.

1:34:15 We establish shame and guilt because our identity is more defined by what we can reject rather than what we like. Everybody likes fancy cars, beautiful women, everybody likes that. But the ability to reject fancy cars and beautiful women because you don’t want to experience shame and guilt is what gives you a clear identity. So re-establish shame and guilt in your thinking process.

1:34:35 Brian Rose: Okay. We’re seeing this real questioning in, I keep going back to America maybe because I said that first, of like gender roles. Yes. And they’re now being questioned and being blurred. And I mean, I saw some study that was actually in an NHS hospital where some group came in and said there were 150 different types of genders to identify with.

1:34:54 It’s like a spectrum. You said that to be feminine is to naturally want to, I think you said is to anticipate some of the needs of your man and to kind of nurture accordingly. And that’s a beautiful thing and you should embrace that act of feminism.

1:35:10 Obviously we talked about acts of masculism like being fearless and providing those kind of things. What do you make when you look to, I keep going back to the States and you look at this kind of mayhem there of the transgender movement or questioning sexuality. I mean, I had a guest on recently and she said, Brian, you better have a conversation with your boys at six and seven about what is a boy and what is a girl because someone else is having these conversations. How do you weigh in on that?

1:35:35 Sadia Khan: Well, the thing is with transgender, of course there’s a financial incentive for pharmaceuticals to teach you that it is something that we should embrace and we should do in children because of course it makes them billions. But the reality is that a feeling is not factual. What I find so bizarre about transgender is it’s a very clear mental illness and this is something I’m not going to be shy about saying.

1:35:59 Transgenderism is a mental illness and the reason I say that is anybody who’s so disconnected from their body, there must have been some trauma. Now, if I’m an anorexic, anorexics are super, super skinny but they think they’re fat. They look in the mirror and they see a fat person.

1:36:16 They identify as a fat person. As a doctor, would I ever say to an anorexic, let’s get you some liposuction? Never because they think they’re fat. We would know it’s not good for them and there’s a delusion in their cognitive understanding of who they are.

1:36:29 Transgender is the only time where a doctor will believe your delusion and help you remain in your delusion. Now, worst case scenario there’s intersex or whatever I can understand but the reality is that your disconnecting from your body is a trauma. There must be some trauma in there somewhere or shape or form.

1:36:48 So, if you one minute embrace the idea that you should love yourself and the next minute tell people are completely free to reject the body that they’re born in, it doesn’t make sense. We should try and get them psychologically aligned. We should try and get their psychology aligned with their body rather than just changing their body to fit their broken psychology.

1:37:07 So, I just think it’s a sickness. I’m not saying that the people are sick but I think the society has profited on these people with a broken self-esteem and a disconnect from their psychological reality and they found a way to make money out of that and that’s why they’re running with it. Now, this is no disrespect from somebody.

1:37:26 I don’t think they’re the problem. They’re a symptom of a society that has monetized their illness and the reality is that it is a mental health issue. It’s a crime for identity. It’s probably something broken in the home or some trauma and the suicide rates support that.

1:37:42 Now, the suicides rates for transgender even after surgery and even now that we live in a society which really accepts it is still way higher. It’s like 14, 16 times higher than the average population. There’s a brokenness that we haven’t addressed and we’ve just medicated because it brings money to the table for all pharmaceuticals. So, I would say it’s a mental health crisis.

1:38:02 Brian Rose: And how do people deal with trauma? We talked a lot about childhood trauma. What can you do with it?

1:38:07 Sadia Khan: It’s very difficult but the thing that I would do is firstly acknowledge it but more importantly look at how it’s affecting your decision making. Trauma can only go as far as you allow it to let you. What I mean by that is if I had sexual trauma as a child and somebody kind of raped me what might have happened is then people then go on to become the molesters or they go on to become sex workers.

1:38:29 They almost sign up for being re-abused because it’s all they know and it’s where they want to find themselves but then the trauma continues. Whereas if you recognize that that’s your trauma your brain is going to tell you to go back into that trauma but you fight against the bad decision making you can undo the trauma a lot. Say for example I was abused as a child.

1:38:50 A lot of women when they were sexually abused they might gain a lot of weight or lose a lot of weight to de-sexualize themselves. But that gaining a lot of weight though it de-sexualizes you it causes a new trauma of disconnection and hating your body and so on and so forth. You have to make healthy decisions despite what your traumatized brain is telling you to do. So that’s what I usually get clients to do is change their decision making.

1:39:11 Brian Rose: Take ownership is what you’re saying.

1:39:12 Sadia Khan: Unfortunately, yeah.

1:39:13 Brian Rose: And why do you think we’re seeing all of these like blurred lines with genders and all of these kind of very strange issues happening in the world now I would say in America but why do you think all that’s happening now?

1:39:26 Sadia Khan: I think that what happens is when you confuse people’s identity you can manipulate them a lot easier and better. If I’ve got a very strong identity which my religion gave me it made it very difficult for social media and for the laws and to governments and you know COVID or whatever to manipulate me because I have a higher authority that guides me. Now when you confuse them at a young age in terms of the most fundamental sense of reality the most fundamental thing me and you know is that I’m a woman and you’re a man.

1:39:54 If I can confuse that I can confuse them in everything and then I’m creating a society of children that grow on to be adults that are sheep that go on to get up and therefore those in control can manipulate them further and further and essentially you create a society that won’t have enough identity to challenge what you’re telling them.

1:40:14 Brian Rose: Are you sure you’re not David Icke’s guy?

1:40:17 Sadia Khan: No, he has some good points there. He becomes a weaponist. He is my idol by the way. I do love him so let him know.

1:40:24 Brian Rose: Yeah, we’ll let him know as you should. But yeah, you’re saying a lot of the same things.

1:40:28 Sadia Khan: Confusion is the key to an oppressor. If you confuse a person they won’t know what right from wrong and they won’t know freedom from oppression and therefore the best way to manipulate somebody is to confuse them and it’s what the government has and what the forces above have done really well.

1:40:43 Brian Rose: Yeah and with politics say in America they can take a topic and weaponize it and use it to their advantage and unfortunately all of these children or confused people are something I mean you’re just ammunition to them. So for example like on the White House lawn they had a huge like you know LGBTQ blah blah blah blah and they were doing all these things and celebrating all these crazy things on the White House lawn and it was like on one side you’re like oh look how they’re supporting our choices but they’re just trying to win the election.

1:41:12 Sadia Khan: It’s never the case. And the same thing when Qatar was going on in the World Cup when they wanted to kind of like kind of take over with the LGBT flags. None of it is really to do with supporting the community.

1:41:25 It’s a way of psychological colonialism. It’s a way of making sure that your values become seen as a sense of higher morality and anybody that doesn’t follow it is archaic. So it’s a way of maintaining white supremacy and a way of kind of putting it under the banner of human rights.

1:41:44 So to the point where they’ve even convinced minorities that this is how you show that you’re a moral person. You support the agenda and it works. It works really really well unfortunately.

1:41:53 Brian Rose: It works super endlessly. What do you think about the West exporting their value system to particularly places in the Middle East?

1:42:00 Sadia Khan: I find it very offensive. I find it very offensive. If you look at the history in British colonialism they made homosexuality illegal in so many cultures. In India it was very common they had homosexual gods and they made it illegal.

1:42:13 And in places in Africa and stuff they literally civilized them by making it heterosexual. Now the moment the West decides that homosexuality is a human right we now penalize the very cultures that we kind of arrested the people for being homosexual. So it’s a way of maintaining moral superiority against the world by making their morals the kind of finishing line.

1:42:38 So I remember like even 50 years ago in the UK you couldn’t have gay marriage and you definitely could. I don’t know if it was in the DSMIB as a mental health issue or there was something that was there. So they have these rules themselves and the moment they change the world has to change.

1:42:53 And if the world doesn’t catch up the world is archaic. So I just see it as a form of racism if I’m honest. And I know that sounds really like oh she’s going on about racism. And especially particularly for somebody like me because I have white skin and I speak like a white woman and I could very easily be passed as like a Western person they don’t like when I talk about racism but I’ve experienced it a lot weirdly.

1:43:16 Weirdly I’ve experienced it a lot and here’s what’s so interesting about racism in England. It’s not a colour thing because I could pass for Western if I wanted to. It’s more of a moral thing and what I mean by that is if I went to the pub after work every night and if I had an English boyfriend and if I said oh god Muslims are so archaic oh yeah Muslim women are oppressed.

1:43:40 If I said that they would include me on everything and I would be promoted just as much. But because I say no Muslim women are not oppressed I actually feel very liberated by having these traditional values. And because I stand by my culture and my background I experience racism.

1:43:55 So weirdly I don’t think it’s a colour thing I think it’s a values thing. If you have expressed different values to Westerners in England you will be penalised for it.

1:44:05 Brian Rose: Yeah I’m just living there. 20 years from now what’s Dubai going to look like compared to London?

1:44:11 Sadia Khan: I actually sadly think it’s well I think it’s going to be incredible and amazing but I do think it’s going to lose some of its tradition. I think it’s becoming the thing I love the most about Dubai is it’s got all of the kind of technology and the ease of all the Western kind of technology and all the ease there but it maintains some tradition there’s some traditional values. I do think they’re going to slowly disappear to fit in with Western cultures.

1:44:40 I think it’s going to be a perfect playground for the world. I think the world is going to use Dubai as their stomping ground but it is an incredible city. Absolutely incredible city. Any problems or issues that you face in your country you go to Dubai and they’ve got a solution for it and it’s just a remarkable place to live so I am truly truly grateful and I hope it maintains that element of its culture and tradition combined with openness and kind of acceptance of all the different nationalities that they welcome in Dubai.

1:45:14 Brian Rose: It’s the city of the future. It really is. I interviewed Dr. Marwan Alzarouni and he said, Brian, we’re the merchants of hope.

1:45:21 Sadia Khan: Yeah, literally. And I really am so happy to hear that you really enjoyed it because some people can be negative about it but it’s incredible. Really beautiful city.

1:45:30 Brian Rose: Dubai is not what everyone told you it is. They told you it’s this plastic place like Vegas in the Middle East and maybe it was like that in the early 2000s, I don’t know but it’s not like that. It’s a vibrant multicultural place and anybody who’s been there longer than a month is a bit like Sadia.

1:45:46 Sadia Khan: Are you working for the tourism board?

1:45:48 Brian Rose: No. They’re just singing the praises of this place because when I was there I did a vlog that said Dubai is what America used to be as in it was a place where you could go and create anything you wanted to and the government would leave you alone and it was a place where you could create prosperity and it was a place that would support you in doing so. And our Western governments that we’re so proud of in America and in Britain, for example, they’re crumbling.

1:46:12 I mean, I ran for mayor in 21 and so I had to look at the entire infrastructure of the tube and try to think how are we going to fix this thing and I go to the tube so I love the tube and I go to the tube and I look around and I’m like this station hasn’t been clean since 1964 and it’s just like all this tech is so old it’s crumbling and the NHS is failing. Kids are getting stabbed on the streets and it’s just like and we hold ourselves up as this vision of the greatness.

1:46:37 Sadia Khan: And I just don’t know where my money is going in England when I used to pay all that tax I couldn’t see it whereas in Dubai I don’t pay tax but I can see where the government is spending its money all the time is to give me a comfortable life and I’m just an expat whereas in England where I’m born and raised I put so much money into tax I land and it’s like you less charge there you have to pay to get off the airport you have to…

1:46:58 It’s so inhospitable whereas the hospitality in the Middle East in general I think Saudi and Qatar are similar it’s like welcome to welcome how can you land and they give you a SIM card so that you can get by. In England it’s like I just don’t feel welcomed in the city that I was born and raised in.

1:47:16 Brian Rose: Wow, it’s a strong statement.

1:47:17 Sadia Khan: It’s very strong isn’t it? Maybe I’m just so used to being spoiled in Dubai.

1:47:21 Brian Rose: It’s good, I appreciate you saying that. And there is a culture there again I’m starting to feel it I’ll feel it more when I go back but it’s very family oriented it’s very welcoming I found the men to be really curious I found that really healthy like you have these young men there like you know Emiratis and they were curious like engaging with me asking questions wanting to learn about what was going on and I was like wow you don’t see that everywhere.

1:47:48 Sadia Khan: Emiratis are incredibly hospitable they’re very kind insanely generous like insanely like my house is your house they’ve just got a culture that is just very inspiring to be around so I really enjoy the hospitality there.

1:48:02 Brian Rose: And the women they have some type of inner strength I don’t know what it is like you said coming from your culture people say you’re a press you’re like no I’m actually not I feel the opposite of a press yeah and I feel like the women command some type of I don’t know what it is they command a respect

1:48:19 Sadia Khan: Yeah they command a respect because they remove your ability to sexualize them so what happens in that beautiful abayas that they wear which France has banned and stuff when we dress like that you can no longer sexualize me so now you have to respect me and speak to me like an equal whereas what the West has taught us is that is oppressive but it’s actually the opposite it removes an ability of a man to use his imagination with us now you have to actually connect to us so we feel a little bit more empowered I say we but I’m not actually covered but when I do wear the abaya I do feel stronger weirdly yeah I’ve got this kick in my step

1:48:54 Brian Rose: So I had a guest on the program who wrote a book called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. It became really famous. Mark Manson.

1:49:00 Sadia Khan: Fabulous book, by the way.

1:49:02 Brian Rose: Yeah, great book. And I think he did a Netflix series afterwards.

1:49:06 Sadia Khan: Oh, he does? Okay, I’ll have to watch that.

1:49:08 Brian Rose: And he said to me, he said, you know, ultimately people came back around and said, you’re taking, like, Buddhist values and just selling it to us in a modern lens. Yeah. And he’s like, yeah, that’s pretty much what I’m doing.

1:49:19 Sadia Khan: Maybe that’s what I’m doing.

1:49:20 Brian Rose: You’re taking these traditional art form, Muslim values.

1:49:23 Sadia Khan: Muslim values.

1:49:24 Brian Rose: And you’re selling it back to us.

1:49:25 Sadia Khan: I’m packaging it with a Londoner, with a smile, and adding a bit of psychology.

1:49:28 Brian Rose: Yeah, and it’s beautiful.

1:49:30 Sadia Khan: Is it beautiful or is it manipulative?

1:49:32 Brian Rose: It’s a fine line. It’s what we need.

1:49:34 Sadia Khan: Yeah, it’s what we need, and that’s why people are resonating with me.

1:49:37 Brian Rose: Yeah, I hope so. So I think that’s what you’re doing, and it’s beautiful. Get this woman a book deal, that’s what I would say. How can people contact you, and what is next for you? You’re becoming this massive influencer. You’re being invited to all the hot shows.

1:49:50 Sadia Khan: Yeah, I’m very grateful. I think, well, firstly, you can contact me at Sadia Psychology on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, but also have a Patreon where you can actually connect and talk, and there’s also exclusive content on there. You know what, I had no plans to be on social media. I was a teacher, minding my own business. I just posted one or two videos, it kind of took off. I don’t even know how I’m here. I used to watch you throughout COVID and now I’m sitting here talking to you. So to ask me what I’m planning to do with this is anybody’s guess. It’s all in God’s hands. I don’t even know how I got here. I’m incredibly grateful for the responsiveness that I’m getting online. But if I could tell you what my vision is, my vision is actually to be unemployed, sat at home watching Real Housewives of Dubai. But I don’t think that will happen.

1:50:35 I think God’s got a bigger plan for me, so I think I would love to go into book writing. Would be great. I would love to go into something along those lines, but I would probably pick your brain afterwards and help me decide where to take this, because whilst I got it, I might as well utilize it.

1:50:52 Brian Rose: Yeah, well, you’re here for a reason, and probably putting it out there the way you’re doing it is a reason you’ve been successful.

1:50:58 Sadia Khan: Crazy. In God’s hands.

1:51:00 Brian Rose: You’re just talking from the heart, you’re providing value to other people and seeing where it takes you. So that’s the best way to do it, so keep doing that, for sure. You’re probably going to be one of the Real Housewives of Dubai.

1:51:11 Sadia Khan: I hope so.

1:51:12 Brian Rose: Is that a good show? I haven’t watched it.

1:51:14 Sadia Khan: No, it’s not.

1:51:15 Brian Rose: We’ll see how it goes. Thank you for being brave enough to put these ideas out there, because a lot of what you’re saying is very controversial, but you say it with a smile, you say it with genuine congruity. I think that’s why it resonates. It’s important that we have voices out there like this, especially in these times. You’re going to get heat. Well, you’re going to get heat these days with anything you say online, so as long as you’re you, you’re going to attract the right people in your life and keep going where you need to go. So yes, please start a podcast, TED Talk series, and then just keep putting out that content. It’s really important what you do. So many people are resonating with it, and so I just want to say thanks.

1:51:57 Sadia Khan: And can I just reiterate how grateful I am for this opportunity, and I really, really admire your work, and I feel very grateful that you even know who I am. So thank you so much for taking the time out to speak to me. I really do appreciate it.

1:52:08 Brian Rose: My pleasure. I’ve enjoyed this. Thanks for analyzing me subtly as well, and maybe we’ll do it again in Dubai, God willing. All right, thank you so much.

1:52:16 Sadia Khan: Thank you.