Full transcript: Peter Navarro on London Real
3:35 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Peter Navarro, the former White House advisor, economist and author. You served Donald Trump as assistant to the president and as director of the Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy. Here you advised on how to increase economic growth and on one of only three senior White House officials who remained with the president from the 2016 campaign all the way to the end of his term. Your latest book, The New Maga Deal, The Unofficial Deplorables Guide to Donald Trump’s 2024 Policy Platform explores the future the president will oversee as he charts a course for a second term in the White House. You famously refused to testify against President Trump at the House Select Committee’s investigation into the events on January 6th and were subsequently sentenced to four months in federal prison.
4:25 You have said that Kamala Harris’s woke inflationary policies are destroying American manufacturing in those key battleground states, which will determine the November 5th presidential election. Ultimately, you believe that if Donald Trump loses, America will lose its freedom. Peter, welcome to London Real.
4:43 Peter Navarro: Brian, big pleasure to be with you across the pond, as we used to say. I don’t know if they use that expression anymore.
4:50 I think they still do. We have that special relationship always with America. I guess I’ll just jump in. We got less than four weeks left. How is it going over there?
5:01 How does it feel to you? And what are the chances of victory for Trump? The October 1st debate between J.D. Vance, the American Republican DP candidate versus the Democrat Tim Walz, has subtly shifted the tide towards Trump Vance. It’s very interesting. We’re seeing now movements in the national polls towards Trump, but more importantly, in the battlegrounds. He’s gained in every battleground he needed, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. He’s holding strong in Arizona and Georgia. And I think what happened with the J.D. Vance, Tim Walz thing is it made a couple of things clear. When Vance came out of the gate, the media in this country, the legacy media, just descended on like coyotes and they were able to immediately give him a negative reputation with voters. And if you look at the favorability ratings, which are the gold standard of politicians, he ranked well below Tim Walz. Once that debate happened, J.D. Vance used that opportunity not to attack Walz in a vicious way, but rather to introduce himself to the American public. The man came from poverty, wound up at Yale in between stopped in Iraq, the answering the call of war for this country. And he was a sharp contrast to Tim Walz, who famously has his wedding anniversary on the anniversary of Tiananmen Square. He’s in deep with a communist Chinese.
7:07 He’s been caught lying about whether he was in combat. He’d been caught lying about whether he was at Tiananmen Square today. So what that debate did was immediately elevate J.D. Vance as a serious man, as a man who could well be president if need be versus Walz. And I think the biggest thing about the V.T. debate was to cast light as much on Kamala Harris for her bad judgment in choosing what Walz himself described himself as a knucklehead. So we’re seeing things change. I’ve been doing two things for the campaign independently. I have the book, you mentioned the new MAGA deal. It’s the newmagadeel.com. What’s interesting about it for folks where you are is it describes the 100 actions in 100 days that Donald Trump will take immediately upon taking office on everything from the economy and energy to foreign policy and some of the social issues we’re grappling with on our side of the Atlantic. And I just released a report that you subtly referenced in your intro that looks at how Kamala Harris’s policies on the environment or any energy policies or overregulation have really devastated both the manufacturing sector and the energy sector in the key battleground states. For those of you where you are, it’s an artifact of American politics that even though we have 50 states in our country, the way our system is structured, it comes down to five or six or seven states, we call them battleground states, that determine the election in most cycles. And if you look at,
9:12 For example, Arizona, the copper industry has just been totally decimated there. We’ve lost power plants there. And aluminum manufacturing, which is big in Arizona, has been hammered by the lack of enforcement of trade policy by Harris. So you take that state and you talk to the voters about that. Then you go over to Pennsylvania fracking. I don’t know if folks know what that is over where you are, but it’s an innovative technology to extract natural gas. Pennsylvania among the 50 states is the king of fracking. Harris has declared war on that fracking and 30% loss of jobs in Pennsylvania has been the result. So polls are moving towards Trump and Vance away from Harris. Now, the other thing I should tell you about Harris, I did a piece for the Washington Times that drilled down on Trump’s charge that she was mentally impaired. That one kind of sent the liberal diaspora kind of spinning out of control here. But if you look carefully at her and you just do a psych 101, psychology 101 analysis, and you look at her over-scripting, her over-rehearsing, her anxiety over speaking to the press and things like that, you quickly conclude you need not call it a mental impairment, but you can say she’s mentally not fit, not built for the presidency. And I say that, I was with, as you know it again in your intro, I was one of three guys with the president for all four years. I’ve seen him in the Oval Office, I’ve seen
11:14 Him in the Cabinet Room, the Roosevelt Room, I’ve seen him in Argentina at the G20, seen him in Osaka, the G7. And he’s continually interacting in an improvisational way, whether it’s Putin or Cameron or Kim Jong-un up in the North Korea-South Korea border. And Harris, I think that’s what you need to be able to do as a president. Kamala Harris is totally incapable of that. There’s a great story in that piece I wrote for the Washington Times about how Harris actually scheduled a mock dinner because she was anxious about having dinner with this media mogul in kind of a salon environment. So, anyway, that’s the long story about what’s going on.
12:06 I’m going out on the road next week, there’s bus tours that folks like me are doing and shaking hands and doing the retail politics. And it’ll be close though. This one will be close as they always are.
12:18 Brian Rose: You know, it’s fascinating. On the front page of New York Times today, even they are questioning or pointing out the fact that she doesn’t answer questions and she turns things around. And they actually did an analysis which shocked me with the 60 Minutes interview and a couple of the other pieces where they even noted that it’s even noticeable for politicians how she just completely didn’t answer that question. I think in the 60 Minutes interview, I asked her three times about the relationship with Israel and three times she turned it around. So, fascinating to see that media organization noting that.
12:55 You know, we’ve got four weeks left. Interesting point you make about J.D. Vance. We’ve seen her doing this kind of softball media tour. Obviously, Trump is continuing on the road doing these rallies. I had Giuliani on yesterday and he said, the more you hear of Trump, the more you like him. The more you hear from Kamala, the more you’re unsure about her. Do you see any curveballs coming up in the next four weeks? Are you concerned about another assassination attempt? Are you concerned about some red herring? Because it feels like if it continues to go this way, it does go towards Trump.
13:30 It does go away from Kamala.
13:33 Peter Navarro: Well, there certainly will be an October surprise. There always is. Who knows what it is? I think that Jack Smith, the special prosecutor, I use that term loosely, is trying to be part of that October surprise.
13:53 He dumped a 125 page report indictment in and a liberal judge let it all go to the press and things like that. And there’s going to be some activity in that case. So certainly they’ll try to do that. But look, what’s extraordinary about this is that if you look at the polls, the vote is like, okay, it’s like 49 to 47 or 48, 48. I mean, think about that.
14:23 That doesn’t lead. It’s like about 4% that are undecided. So people have pretty much made up their mind. It shouldn’t be close if you look at what voters say they care about most and what candidate wins on what they care about most. What I mean by that is that JD Vance, Donald Trump on the economy inflation have about a double digit leads on Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. Border security, which is a very big issue
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15:52 Peter Navarro: And I think in Great Britain, where we’re just being inundated, this is not you’re tired, you’re hungry, you’re poor. There’s puddle masses here coming over. It’s then as well as emptying jails. We got drug cartels sending folks over from Mexico. We got the communist Chinese sending military age troops. We got terrorists from Iran and Yemen coming in. This is a big issue. Trump clearly leads on that on the foreign policy.
16:26 I mean, look, what I keep saying over and over again, what the boss keeps saying over and over again, it’s like the lived experience of Trump, we had four years. Putin didn’t invade Ukraine. Kim Jong Un stopped testing his missiles. Iran was mostly leaving Israel alone directly and through its proxies. And communist China wasn’t buzzing Taiwan.
16:57 And you flip that around. And now we’re in a very dangerous place here. Sorry. I mean, it’s a very dangerous world. And we have a president who’s checked out and we have a vice president who knows nothing about foreign policy, nothing, and is incapable based on her psychological makeup of being able to interact in an improvisational dynamic way with world leaders. I mean, that’s a that’s a recipe for war. So that’s just that’s dangerous.
17:30 Brian Rose: Yeah, I can tell you we’re definitely anxious over here. And everywhere I travel, even to the Middle East, I’ll be in Dubai in two days. Everyone is palpably nervous, because they understand that this has global ramifications. You know, the old saying Peter was when when America sneezes, Europe catches a cold. And it’s kind of like that times 10 now. And I really have noticed how people are really on edge about this. So it’s extremely important. You know, you mentioned the personality, you know, you got to see and really see up close Trump for four years. And I’m just curious, two things. How has he changed since then? And what could you tell people about what he’s really like? I always hear reports that, you know, when the cameras are off, he’s just a super warm guy, a super caring guy, a very funny guy, someone who’s very personable. And people are always surprised to hear that because they’re kind of used to maybe the guy that pushes people’s buttons and gets people’s attention. I’m curious, what does he really like? And then how has he changed? He seems to be really, I don’t know, a well rounded person, or he seems to be empathetic, or I don’t know, it seems to definitely have been changing from, say, 16 till now.
18:45 Peter Navarro: Yeah, that’s that’s some astute observations. I would agree with you on everything that once are the humor, the billionaire with the commoners touch. The other thing I would add when I see him is, is the master chess player, three dimensional chess. I mean, if you’re in the oval, and you’re talking, and you’re not saying anything, you get cut off quick. But if you’re talking, and you’re saying something, he listens intently, I think what you’re, what you’re seeing now, sir, is a serenity that comes with battle, with surviving assassination attempt, which by all odds should have killed him. That people need to understand that if somebody shoots a bullet, and it goes right through the crease there, okay, if it was one millimeter either way, that would have been the end of him. And I think he knows this is the last ride, and he’s comfortable with who he is. And he knows he’s doing his best. He knows he’s made a great choice in advance. And it’s going to be up to the voters now. What we hope doesn’t happen here is any shenanigans that we have a fair election, but it’s all going to come down to getting the vote out. Nobody works harder than Donald Trump.
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21:18 Peter Navarro: It’s impressive. It’s just impressive, his pace. And then he’ll do three rallies and then go to the UFC and stay there until midnight. It’s amazing to watch.
21:29 Brian Rose: What did I ask about you? I mean, you’re really well known for choosing not to testify, going to prison for four months. That’s a pretty bold statement that you made by choosing that path. And you’re no spring chicken. And I’m just curious, was that a difficult decision to make?
21:49 What was that process like? What was prison like? And then now that you’re out of it, what’s the perspective been?
21:58 Peter Navarro: Well, look, I want to be precise about what I did. I didn’t refuse to testify against Donald Trump. I would have been happy to testify in that hearing because everything I would have said would have been exculpatory to Donald Trump.
22:15 The issue here, sir, is that there’s a constitutional separation of powers between the Congress and the White House, which by the doctrine of executive privilege, which goes back to George Washington, our first president, says that Congress can’t compel a president or his senior advisors to testify. And the reason why executive privilege exists and has been supported by our judicial system throughout our history is because, as they say, in the Supreme Court decisions, a president needs candor and confidentiality with his advisors in order to make the best decisions for the country. So when I got that subpoena from Congress, I told them that it was not my privilege to waive executive privilege had been invoked.
23:17 And if you want me to talk with you, just go to President Trump, the way of the privilege. They chose not to do that, and they chose to go forward with what was a process that would put me in prison. So it was not hard for me to stand up for the Constitution. I am no spring chicken. At this point, as you learn what’s important in life, what’s important in life ultimately is principle. And I was standing up for the country and the Constitution, and I did so.
23:53 And I have no regrets about that. My case is on its way to the Supreme Court. I believe I will be vindicated. But more importantly, I believe the Constitution will be protected in this country by a decision in my case. And that will have been worth it.
24:14 With respect to the prison experience, I’ll come back. And when the book comes out about it, I did keep a diary, and I’ll have some interesting things to say. But the biggest takeaway from my prison experience was what I learned in prison about the corruption and scandals of the prison system here itself. So I will have a lot more to talk about that after the election. But it’s kind of where things are at.
24:48 Brian Rose: Did you have any advice for Steve Bannon before he went in? And do we know how he’s doing on the inside?
24:57 Peter Navarro: Yes, he’s fine. Look, the thing you have to understand about Steve is he was a naval officer and spent a good part of his life in the Navy out on a ship in the South China Sea and East China Sea. And if you ever went on a destroyer or a battleship, you know that the sleeping conditions there are worse than anything you’d ever have in the prison cell. So I don’t have any worries about Steve dealing with that environment at all. He’s a tough SOB as I am. And we’ve had correspondence. He’s fine. He’s focused on the mission as I am, which is getting Trump elected. And he’ll be out on the 25th of this month, and he’s raring to go. And he’ll be out doing his own bus tour up and down the battlegrounds.
25:56 Brian Rose: Well, props to you both for standing up for what you believe in. That’s a huge statement. Peter, a couple more things. November 6th, the day after the election, what happens then? Let’s go ahead and assume Trump has the victory. He wins those battleground states.
26:13 What do you have to be prepared to do and then the whole team or the whole party?
26:20 Peter Navarro: Yeah, so the reaction is between November 6th and Inauguration Day of January 21st, 2025, there will be a whole transition effort which will involve staffing decisions about who’s going to be in the cabinet, who’s going to be in the White House, things like that. And then equally important, and I had a lot to do with this back in 2016, those 100 actions in 100 days. Remember, the new MAGA deal, newmagadeel.com, that’s the book. Those 100 actions in 100 days, 99 of them are going to have to be implemented by what’s called executive order. And so those orders are going to have to be written. They’re going to have to go through what’s called form and legality with the Department of Justice, which will set up a separate wing for the new transition team. And come Inauguration Day, if all goes well, Trump will have his cabinet in place waiting to be confirmed by the Senate. He’ll have all his White House people in place, and he’ll have 100 executive orders to sign either the first day or the first week.
27:43 Brian Rose: What will the Democrats do? Will they try to take this to the legal system?
27:49 Will they try to mess with the voting?
27:53 Peter Navarro: That’ll be the irony. They’ll claim Trump stole the election or something. They’ll contest it. I mean, that’s the funny part. When Trump contested the election in 2020 using the Electoral Count Act of 1887, that had been used primarily by Democrats to contest the election of Trump in 2016, George Bush in 2020, excuse me, in 2000 and 2004. And I think John Kerry, I mean, it’s the Democrats use that. And then when we tried to use it, they said we’re trying to overthrow democracy. It’s so nonsense. And this whole democracy threat, you call them a dictator. Hey, look, I went to prison. Last thing I’ll tell you is that every person involved in sending me to prison is a Democrat. Every single one.
28:57 Imagine that happened in Great Britain. It’s like where a conservative prime minister goes to jail and everybody involved in putting him there is from the liberal party. Okay. That’s what happened here. Because all the branches of government, congressional members, judges, prosecutors, every single one of Democrat put me in prison.
29:21 Brian Rose: And is it possible for them to try to block that electoral vote process that I think happens in the first week of January? I’ve heard about worries about.
29:32 Peter Navarro: Well, they actually, ironically, they made it difficult to do that in the wake of what happened in 2020, because they knew it was a legitimate way to do it. So it might get hoist on their own part, as they say.
29:47 Brian Rose: Okay. Last question. We saw Elon show up with Trump, you know, that revisit of the Butler campaign. I think that was a huge media event in itself and a huge statement that Trump went back there. Now, obviously a talk of him doing the government efficiency pieces. I’m curious if, if you’ve game scenario that out, if you might add an extra chapter about that and you know how you would feel about cutting agencies down by say 80%.
30:18 Peter Navarro: Look, I think that’s great. Let him do a saying. My belief is that the big issues with our country have more to do with our trade and manufacturing policies by a large margin.
30:30 We have an ungodly trade deficit. We’ve offshored a lot of our production that’s exposed us both to the loss of jobs and factories, but also national security issues. And my focus has been establishing, reshoring, making sure our manufacturing base is solid and our trade relationships are fair. And that’s, that’s, that’s the biggest bang for the buck. Sure. Streamlining regulations, agencies, tax cuts, you know, that’s traditional Republican stuff. But what really distinguishes Donald Trump from all other presidents and in the minds of the American people is his willingness to stand up for workers. And that means reshoring manufacturing and having fair trade with the rest of the world.
31:22 Brian Rose: And you’re a serious expert when it comes to China and the threat to the West and what they’ve really been doing over the last four years and the last 40 years.
31:34 Maybe as a final point, if Harris wins, how dangerous is China for that manufacturing base in America and that next future for the next four years?
31:45 Peter Navarro: Well, coming to China, which is what it is, goes by the Sun Tzu philosophy to win without fighting. And they can do that with America by draining a straw of our factories and jobs. And that’s been their strategy that will continue under Kamala Harris. But I also will get a lot of money that they’ll make their move on Taiwan before 2028. Well, Paris is priced because she would not know what to do. And that’s very dangerous because the semiconductors and everything in World War III chokes off everything. Or it’s or it’s Munich.
32:26 Brian Rose: Right. And I keep hearing Trump use that tariff word so much now in his speeches. I feel like people are starting to understand and maybe those battleground states, maybe that’s getting through the voters because they can see that that’s a weapon he can use. Maybe only he can use to preserve their jobs in this base.
32:50 It’s been a powerful thing. You get the last word then.
32:53 Peter Navarro: That’s it. New Magadeal, newmagadeal.com. Check it out, folks. If you want to know what Trump’s going to do under actions in a hundred days. Let’s do this again after the election. See where we’re at.
33:04 Brian Rose: Definitely. We’ll put a link to the book down below. Peter Navarro, thank you so much for the time. The book is The New Magadeal, the unofficial deplorables guide to Donald Trump’s 2024 policy platform.
33:15 Go grab a copy. And yeah, let’s do this again, Peter. All the best for the next few weeks.
33:21 Peter Navarro: All right. Take care. All right. Take care. Thank you. Bye bye.
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