Michael Alago - Who The F*ck Is That Guy?

Full transcript: Michael Alago on London Real

2:22 This is London Real, I am Brian Rose. I first met Michael Alago when I was in New York City last year filming my movie Iron Mind with John Joseph and he had just premiered his movie on Netflix called Who the Fuck is That Guy and it’s all about Michael’s crazy life as an A&R executive for 25 years where he signed bands like Metallica, Cyndi Lauper and Nina Simone. He used to party hard in the 80s and 90s, knew Andy Warhol and David Bowie and just had a crazy career.

3:02 Later, he was afflicted with AIDS and he watched all of his friends die around him and miraculously he survived that and he got sober. And today he’s here to tell you the story. I love Michael’s energy. He really understands the music business. He understands people.

3:17 You know, Michael is such a warm soul and I know you’re going to enjoy this incredible rock and roll story. This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Michael Alago, the former rock and roll talent booker and A&R executive whose life story is the subject of the Netflix documentary, who the fuck is that guy? You grew up in New York City during the 1970s and 80s, surrounded by artists like David Bowie, the Sex Pistols, Keith Haring, Andy Warhol, and the Chromags.

3:44 And your obsession with music led to a 25 year career in the business, most prominently as an A&R executive, signing and managing huge artists like Metallica, Cyndi Lauper, and Nina Simone. After surviving both substance abuse and contracting aids. You came out the other side clean, sober, and healthy. Michael, welcome to London Real. Thank you so much.

4:03 It’s so nice to be here. Great to have you here. You know, before you get started, what’s it like coming to London? And also, from the music side, what did London always kind of mean to you growing up? Well, you know, as a young teenager, because I was listening to punk rock, and I knew there was a scene here as well.

4:21 So I guess my first trip here was in 77, and I would go to the Marquis Club and the 100 Club, and I would see bands like Jean Loves Jezebel and The Exploited. And so from day one, when I graduated high school, I would visit here maybe every other year. As years went by, I was working every day so I didn’t come abroad too often. And now I haven’t been to London in about five years, but here I am and I came for holiday. But when I come here, I always have to go to the theater, whether it’s the Fringe or the West End.

4:56 And after this interview tonight, I’m going to the Garrick Theater in the West End to see the new Mamet play, and been going to art galleries while I’m here, checked out Pure Evil Gallery, which I love, bought a piece from them, and that’s it. What’s a kid doing straight out of high school in the late 70s flying to London? I mean, that’s kind of rare. You know, very rare. I don’t even know where I got the money.

5:21 I guess my mother gave me the money to do that. She was always very supportive of me because she knew that, I always say this, coming out of the womb, I loved music. I didn’t have a plan B. I knew I wanted to be in the music business, but at 14, what does that mean? I don’t know what that means, but I’d watch all of these television shows on TV, and Dick Clark’s American Bandstand, Don Kirschner’s in concert, Don Cornelius’ Soul Train, and all of that, the variety of music that I was listening to informed my listening.

5:56 And I thought, you know what, I have to do something. But I didn’t know what that was. If you want me to continue, we can fast forward. I’m 19 years old. I am in the East Village walking down the street.

6:08 I see a beautiful Art Deco building. And it says, there’s a white piece of paper on the door. And it says, Video Club Opening. Now it’s 1980, MTV has just started. and I walked into this gorgeous building, which was going to be a rock club, video club, and there was a gentleman in the balcony, and he’s like, kid, we’re not even open yet.

6:31 What do you want? And I was like, I wanna work in this place. And he said, well, do you have a resume? I said, no, I don’t have a resume. Go to the School of Visual Arts.

6:41 I work in a pharmacy down the block. Well, he thought that was hilarious. I have no idea why, but he did. And I went up to his office, his name is Jerry Brandt, and he was an entrepreneur. In the 60s, he opened up the electric circus in the East Village, and then he became the music director at what was going to be the Ritz in the East Village on 11th Street.

7:03 We started talking about all types of music, from the big band era to present day pop music. And you knew it all. I did. And why music? Well, why do you think it was when it was- Well, I don’t know.

7:15 Like I said, I had no plan B, and I don’t know what else is there but music. As I’ve grown older, I know there’s art and theater, but it’s music. It’s just one of those things that fills your heart and you just always want to be a part of it. What is music? I know that’s a weird question for me to ask, but like, you know, when you think about it in its pure form as an art.

7:36 Well, storytelling, and if you’re any good, you’re telling a great story that people can relate to. So whether you’re Bruce Springsteen or Tracy Chapman, you know, or even the Sex Pistols, There’s a story in there somewhere, and if you love Bruce or Rotten, there’s a story in there that you’re connecting with. So in some shape, way, or form, all these people are storytellers, and that’s what gets to me all the time, the story. And it’s like when I make records, I always tell the artists, we have to take the audience on a journey, and that journey is that this record should have a beginning, a middle, and an end.

8:17 And when it has that, for me personally, I just get a satisfaction out of that. And I want to get into more details of your story, but what is the music business then? Then? Well, no, it just, what do you, you know, Well, I’d rather talk about the music business then than now, but please go ahead. But I guess, you know, you have music, and I think you just did a great way of summarizing it, but then you have the music business.

8:41 Oh, of course. And you were a big part of that. I had to be. You had to be, yeah. Remember, the A&R department stands for artist and repertoire, and the A&R department is the most important department at a record company, and I don’t say that for ego purposes.

8:57 It is because if the A&R executive, which there are many in the department, don’t come up with best-selling records, you’ll lose your job. So, you know, our chairman at Electra, his name is Bob Krasnow, he’s genius and fabulous, And he knew, he let his A&R people do what they want. And it was like sink or swim, and I was gonna swim. And I swam for 25 years. So he said, go bring me hits.

9:32 No, no, for him, if I said that, he would think that was a bit crass. But, you know, he wanted artists that would sell and that hopefully the world would know about. Sometimes, you know, not everything sells, you know. Sometimes when you sign an artist, of course, hoping for the best, but if you have any kind of faith in them, sometimes you hang on to them for another record and hope by the experience of making that record with the artist, talking to them about how we can better that for the second record and hope that that sells.

10:08 And after a while, excuse me, with artists if they don’t sell, you just kind of have to let them go. Because, you know, when you work for a place like Time Warner, it’s about the bottom line. For me, it’s not about the bottom line. I just want to make art. And, but for them, that’s what it is.

10:24 And I’m not sure if I answered your question correctly. I think you did. One thing I always think about is like, the struggle between artists and patrons has been around since the beginning of time and will be around till the end of time. Oh, of course. And I’ve seen, if you see the documentaries about like the Eagles or about Jimmy O’Vean recently, It’s always a point where the artist is saying, okay, where’s my money?

10:46 And then the producer is saying, but I’m here to look out for you. And there always seems to be this tension. I guess there always will be. Well, you know, for me, I always say, I always used to get in trouble at the record companies because I never stood up for the record companies. I always stood up for the artists.

11:00 And, you know, it’s still the artist that gets paid last, you know, it’s like the record company gets paid, the producer gets paid, the recording studio gets paid. And then the artist has to hope they’ve sold enough records that they’re gonna finally see a dollar. That’s, you know, not really a dollar, but you know what I mean. Finally see some money. And you were always on their side.

11:22 Always, yes. And how do you keep your job when you’re on their side? I just, I was really good at my job and I did help sell records for big companies. So I was fun, I was smart. I knew about a lot of things.

11:36 I’m still smart and I know about a lot of things. But, you know, I just knew about a variety of types. So for instance, Krasnow loved the idea that I was signing Metallica. He didn’t understand it, but he knew from what was happening in the metal underground and being a listener and listening to what I was talking about, he said, let’s do it. And you know, at that point in time when I signed them, the metal underground, they with like the talk of the town and you knew something, something big was, I knew from the get-go something big was gonna happen with this group.

12:16 All four of the young men were wildly charismatic and. Which makes a difference. Oh, honey, you can’t be up there and be a wallflower. You have to like sock it to the people and when you do that and they feel it and they respond, you know there’s something going on there. So Bob liked that I knew about everything from Metallica.

12:42 He knew at some point I wanted to bring John Lydon from Public Image Limited to the company. At some point when Bob signed Tracy Chapman in 1987, he does an A&R Records, he has a company, he has to run. So he said, I signed this girl from Boston, here, you’re an A&R person. And I was like, oh my God. because she had already started the record with David Kirschenbaum and I came in the middle of it.

13:09 So all I did was I listened to the material, I gave my two cents in about sequencing and mastering, and she made that exquisite record that had Fast Car on it. So when that came out in 1988, it boggled everybody’s mind because going back to what I said earlier, I think at that point in time in 1988, people wanted to be spoken to again. And so her being this dynamic, beautiful storyteller, that song, Fast Car, people just associated with it in a very big and beautiful way.

13:48 I was really refreshing for people after the previous years of music that wasn’t necessarily talking to them. Correct. Okay, it’s fascinating stuff. What I found really interesting is in your documentary, all of these artists you work with still have nice things to say about you. You know, like all the members of Metallica are saying to me how great you are, and Johnny Rotten’s in there, all these people.

14:08 And I was like, wow. Because all the other documentaries. Cindy Lauper. Cindy Lauper as well. All the other documentaries you see, there’s still tension between the artists and the labels.

14:17 Well, you know, I’m a person who is very grateful. I’m grateful for my life in and out of music business. And you know, when I worked with these artists, I always told them the truth. You don’t have enough songs yet. We’re not going in the studio.

14:34 Whatever. And in the end, they may have not liked me at that moment because you know when an artist wants to go in the studio and do their thing or his thing or her thing. But you know, when you know it’s just not there yet, you have to put your foot down. And in the end, most of the time, they were grateful for that because they would come back to me later and say, I’m so glad you didn’t let us go in the studio because we wrote such and such a song. And that song or that extra song or two that we didn’t have six months ago wound up being the songs that everybody started talking about.

15:12 So it’s a blessing that I never argued with John Lydon. It’s a blessing that out of the blue, Cindy Lauper called me twice to help her work on records, a dance record, and then a record that she made called Memphis Blues. She said, you know, Michael, I know you had to make Metallica records, but you know how to make a blues record. I said, Sin, did you ever make a blues record? She said, no.

15:38 I said, we’re on even playing ground now. So we just listened to tons of blues recordings, and we both knew that these songs have to come from a woman’s point of view. We wanted to go down to Memphis, and we did, and we had a spectacular time. We made an extraordinary record with a producer named Scott Beaumont. We soaked up the vibes of Memphis, and when we came home- And that’s in the music.

16:05 You can feel it. Oh, absolutely. Well, never mind that Scott Beaumont was in touch with all of Al Green’s band, all of Isaac Hayes’s band, so those people don’t play around. Those studio musicians are the real thing, And we got all those people, including other people like Johnny Lang, who’s a fabulous guitar player, Charlie Mussel White, who’s an extraordinary harmonica player. Oh, this singer that Cindy loved, that we all love, her, named Ann Peebles.

16:35 In the 70s, she had a song called, I Can’t Stand the Rain. And Cindy asked Scott, oh, I love Ann Peebles. I’ll call her, she lives around the corner. So everything fell into sync like that. So we knew we were doing the right thing.

16:51 When we were done, we brought it back to New York, we listened to it, we loved it, and when the Grammy Award nominations came up, we were nominated for Best Contemporary Blues Album. We didn’t win, but that’s okay, because we knew we were acknowledged by her peers, my peers, and that we did a great job. That’s a powerful story. Look, I do wanna get into your upbringing, but see, Shuman, mention- I’m sorry, sometimes I go off on these tangents. But you mentioned Metallica, and I kinda wanna hear that story.

17:18 Also, this is before the internet and social media. So when you have a feeling for something, I’m just curious how you feel that because from looking at all the pictures in the movie, you were out all the time. I was out every single night. Every single night. I had two assistants at some point in time, Tony and Keith, and like you said, there was no internet, so I would get all the music newspapers from my favorite cities across the United States and Canada and sometimes London, like Terrorizer and Carang And, but like I said, all my favorite cities in the States, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, Austin, Boston, New York City, Detroit, and we would get all these publications and cut out articles on new upcoming artists, artists that were on independent labels that maybe didn’t know they needed major distribution.

18:10 And like I said, back then in the early 80s, there was a club to go to every single night of the week. And that was my job, so I did it. In New York City. In New York City, but if I got a cassette of some artists and I needed to go to Dallas, Detroit, I’ve been to Dallas a lot, so we’ll say Dallas. I would travel just to see what they were like.

18:38 Because you can get a cassette and something could be good. And that goodness, you hear something, but you know, things can’t be good when you sign them. It has to be great, because a lot of people out there are good, but good don’t cut it. You gotta be great and you have to be great live, especially back then. Oh, absolutely.

19:02 Maybe not as much today, probably still matters, but back then. Well, I think for me it always matters, because if you don’t radiate something, this thing called charisma, then what do you got up there? Boredom, maybe. Or you could tell a story, but you don’t tell it very good. But you happen to make a really good record.

19:24 So sometimes things differ, you know, in the translation. You know, with somebody like Metallica, they made a record back in the day called Kill Them All. It was over the top. It was fast. It was furious.

19:38 And there was nothing else like it out in the day. Now, 35 years, excuse me, 35 years later, they are a totally different animal. They are, oh, I don’t even wanna say this word, they’re a corporation kind of, but they still make extraordinary music. And that’s why they, I just saw them last night at Twickenham Stadium, sold it out. Because people love them.

20:06 How did you first hear about them? What was the city? How did you know that they were gonna be important? There was a little label called Megaforce Records in New Jersey, run by Johnny Z and his wife Marcia. They had put out a couple of independent records.

20:22 The three that they wanted me to hear because I worked at a major label and they needed major distribution was Raven, Anthrax, and Metallica. I listened to all three of the records. Johnny Z thought Raven were gonna be the biggest band in the whole world. I gave them $5,000, they gave me back five songs. They were effing great, but the problem was I heard Kill’em All, and that totally blew my mind and changed my world.

20:47 And that was the album they had recorded on this independent level. That is correct. And what year is this? They might have recorded in 82, but I started at Electra in 83. Now, you know, they were under contract, so I knew that I didn’t wanna sign those other two bands or anything else that was in that stack of very fine records that John sent me, but I had to have Metallica in my life.

21:10 I knew I had to be very delicate about it because it was about contractual obligations that they had there. And so quietly once on a trip I went to the Stone in San Francisco, I saw Metallica, but I actually saw them previous in Brooklyn at La Moore, but I wasn’t working at a record company yet. So I saw them in 83, I flipped out, I thought James, their singer, was the most charismatic person I’ve ever seen on stage. Ever. Ever.

21:37 No, like, well, you know, there’s Bond Scott from ACDC. I mean, there are those great people, Paul Rodgers from Bad Company, but James is, you know, 21 years old and he’s full of piss and vinegar and that hair and those teeth. And, you know, I embarrass him by probably saying half of this, but, you know, he’s extraordinary. He’s an extraordinary animal on the stage. So I knew I had to have these people in my life.

22:00 I gave Lars my business card, and I just went about my business. They didn’t call me, I didn’t call them. And Lars was the drummer, but he was kind of the business guy. Yeah, yes, yes, indeed. And the scene, what was going on with metal at the time?

22:13 Oh, it was crazy. We were all going to Lamours in Brooklyn, there were places in Staten Island and New Jersey, Brooklyn, which was where Lamour was. Back in the day, there was a very crazy, important heavy metal scene. It was coming out of the woodwork everywhere from overseas, from San Francisco, from New York City. But just to fast forward to finish up what you were asking me, I knew I had to have Metallica in my life.

22:47 So long- Say in your life. In my life. This was like- Music is my life. Right, so this is a- No? Personal, well not personal, this is like you had to do this.

22:55 This wasn’t business. Yes. Well of course it turns into business. naturally, because it has to. But I knew I had to have these people on Electra and in my life.

23:05 And so Lars called me and said, we’re coming to play Roseland as part of a triple bill, act bill. And it’s a mega force tonight. Will you come? I said, absolutely. I invited our head of radio, Mike Bone.

23:16 I invited Bob Krasnow, our chairman, and they both came to the gig. I don’t really remember at the time what they thought. What was Roseland? It is still there. I’m sorry.

23:25 Roseland was a venue that had been on 52nd Street for 50 years. Now, I’ll get into that in one minute. I go to that show, they blow my mind, I go backstage and I say, you guys, we have to work this out. You have to be on Electra. You need a major label.

23:42 This is gonna blow up so big you’re not even gonna know what to do. So the next day, they were in my office and in the conference room, I ordered beer and Chinese food and it felt like they never left. Johnny Z, who ran Megaforce, was furious with me. But, you know, in the end, Money Talks and the settlement was big. He got points, I believe, on the next two albums.

24:07 And that night, Raven got signed to Atlantic Records. Anthrax got signed to Island Records. So, you know, in the end, everybody won. And that was a beautiful thing. Wow.

24:18 And the Chinese food and the beers and they just- I think that helped cinch the deal. Right. But they liked your vibe and they liked- I like my vibe. Because that’s important, right? Well, yes.

24:27 And I think maybe I was two years older than them. So if I’m 24 and they’re 21 and 22, they were like, this is an A&R. They thought an A&R person should look like a suit and tie. But I was anything but that. I was a kid from Brooklyn who managed to get an A&R gig.

24:45 And I felt like I was going to be great at it. And don’t you think this is the second band that I signed is Metallica? And then after that, That changes the landscape of rock and roll. It changed the landscape what other record companies were looking for because they wanted to find their own Metallica. That doesn’t happen.

25:03 But there are versions of heavy metal bands that are extraordinary out there. And the example I always use is Slayer. One of a kind, extraordinary. They don’t sound like anybody and nobody sounds like them. They’re a band that I wish I could have worked with.

25:20 But instead, whenever they’re in the tri-state area, I never miss a show. And so your sign of Metallica helped a lot of other metal bands. Well, it helped a lot of other metal bands. And what it also did was a lot of A&R people were not afraid to be adventurous in their signings and sign their own version of what they thought was the next big thing. And what was that next five years like with Metallica?

25:46 So let’s see, it’s 84 to 89. Okay, well, it blew up. They were the talk of the town. Not only were they the talk of the town, they were selling out gigs everywhere. Fast forward a little bit, it’s 1986 and Sharon and Ozzy Osbourne had seen Metallica and they wanted them to open up the Ozzy tour in the United States, and they did.

26:09 And they were playing now, because of Ozzy, 20,000 seat places like Madison Square Garden in New York City. And by September of 86 when they were on tour in Europe, that’s when things went bad. Because whether our viewers know or not, you know, things still get you after like 33 years. There was a young man in the band, Cliff Burton, he was the bass player. Fabulous musician, fabulous.

26:43 And it was late night in Sweden, and the bus went on some black ice. It overturned, and the bus killed him. Can you imagine what that’s like to 21-year-olds who lost their brother, their fellow musician, and they’re riding high, they’re the talk. Everybody wants to see Metallica. Everybody wants to find Metallica, but what happens is he dies.

27:11 Next day everybody’s on their way back home to San Francisco. I fly out to San Francisco a day or two later. And there was a funeral, a burial, and even bands, other bands felt their hearts were so heavy because everybody loved Cliff. It’s extraordinary. Took a moment or two. They didn’t know if they wanted to go on or just whatever. But it was, you know, I don’t think young people like that had ever experienced mourning that deep. Like I said, a fellow musician, a brother, you know, a band is a family. So that happened. Then about, I don’t know if, I’m not great with time sometimes, and about six or eight months later Lars called and said, you know, we’re going to move forward we’ve decided. So Brian Slagle from Metal Blade Records and myself both spoke to them about a young man named Jason Newstead. He was also in a band called Flotsam and Jetsam who I just signed to Electra. Now of course I didn’t want to lose him having just signed that band but I just also had that feeling you know what Jason’s gonna fit into this thing beautifully and he did and he was with Metallica about 15 years and he was badass he was also one of those charismatic people on stage that he knew how to wow the people from the stage and they loved Jason. So as the A&R guy you’re you’re like family really I mean you’re sometimes you can be or sometimes you’re just a business person to these people and sometimes if you’re a business

28:57 Person perhaps you’re a lot older and it is a business to the A&R person but I just always felt like you know like I said I love music so much I wanted to be involved with all aspects of it so it always just wound up working out beautifully for me and just I’m grateful for that yeah just to finish with Metallica how do you describe then up till now I mean this that’s like 40 or 30 years later like that they just continued to well they well you know like Like I said, in 83, 84, and now in 2019, they’re a very different animal. I mean, it’s so professional, and the musicianship just continued to grow all the time. And you know, some people talk about them and say, well, you know, those records don’t sound like the first three records.

29:47 But when you’re that big a success, you can’t continue to make those same three records because you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. So they always experimented. They always tried something different each and every record. The record’s always sold, sometimes not as good as the last one. But I think that one of the changing points and one of the pivotal records that they made, I believe in 1990, was called The Black Album.

30:17 And that had the hit on it, Enter Sandman. And who would know from the early days that they would then have like a top 40 hit. But that’s also a very extraordinary record that Bob Rock produced for them. And then right after that, I had left Electra to go to Geffen Records for a period of time. Okay, so that relationship with them kind of stopped.

30:40 Yes, but I would go see them live, but nothing business after that. Yeah, now they’re fascinating to watch and they all got sober, I think, about 10 years ago. Oh, I don’t know, I never talk about anybody else’s sobriety. I never know. Okay, but if so fabulous, I saw a documentary. We should all be sober. Yeah. Yeah I want to talk about that too And there’s some great footage of them playing this concert when the Soviet Union like broke up and they’re literally playing in front of Something which like a half a million or a million people. It’s something really crazy. Yeah away. I’ve seen that on Google Yeah, I’m on YouTube. Yeah, but I haven’t seen that in a while. So I don’t know shows. Okay, they were Briefly, just go back to Roseland and maybe a little bit more of what this New York City vibe was like then.

31:25 The only person I’ve had on here talking about that before is John Joseph of the Cro-Mags. A very excellent person to have talking about in New York because we both ran around the same circles. Back in the day, like I said, you could go out every night and see something. I do talk about this in my documentary, so if I’m repeating myself, forgive me. For those who haven’t heard it, here you go.

31:46 You could go out early in the evening and go to Madison Square Garden. Madison Square Garden was a 20,000 seat venue. It was a union hall. So you had to be out of there by 11 o’clock. If you knew there was something happening on Avenue A or at the Cat Club on a Wednesday night, you’d catch the late shows.

32:03 And you could be out every night of the week really hearing music. That’s how vibrant the scene was. And if you were a little over the top and crazy and had a few drinks, or so. You know, you would go to after-hour bars, which were bars that were opened at 4 a.m., and then the next thing you know, you open the door and it’s 12 noon the next day. That’s how insane New York and myself, that’s how insane the whole scene was.

32:34 And this was late 70s, mid 80s? Well, I started going out in the late 70s when I was underage, but now I’m talking more about the 80s. Yeah, maybe early 90s. And what was, and yeah, it was a pretty good description, what was the vibe there? I mean, still rough in the East Village.

32:48 Oh yes, yes, yes. I did live in the East Village. It was a rough vibe. You know, you would think that that bodega on the corner was just a bodega that sold, you know, beer and soda. But of course you can get cocaine there too, you know.

33:02 I remember living on East 10th Street in 1981, 82. I was walking down my street one day And I was looking, I go, wait a minute, what the heck is that in the middle of a street? And it was a car completely turned over on its top that I looked like it blew up the night before and nobody even bothered in the city of New York or anything, nobody bothered even pick it up for about three weeks. I mean, that’s how, middle of the street. That’s how insane these village was back in the day.

33:34 But also, let me quickly, even though you didn’t ask, the beauty of these village back in the day was there was also a very vibrant art scene that people like Jean-Michael Basquiat, Keith Haring, Richard Hamilton, all came out of. And that was kind of extraordinary because then there were little pockets on side streets in the East Village where all these galleries just started nurturing new talent. And that new talent were some of the three names I just mentioned to you.

34:03 And Keith Haring used to draw in the subway, right? Oh boy, did he ever. on these like black places that used to be advertisements and he used to draw all these incredible figures. Yes, that’s right. It’s just kind of fascinating that the art scene just kind of happened there.

34:17 Yes, it did kind of happen and it busted wide open at that point in time because of people like Keith and Jean Michael. And was it like population density of New York and then like East Village where people could squat for free? Well, they did squat for free, yes. And is that why it happened there, you know? You know, I don’t have to answer that except to say, you know, New York has always been a creative city and everything is cyclical and I think it was just the time when those three young people were coming up that’s like, wow, we haven’t had this kind of excitement for such a long time.

34:57 So, there it is. Yeah, and so the art with the music made a difference because all these different kinds of creative juices are flowing and people are thinking and feeling. Different ideas and it’s an exciting time and everyone’s pushing the envelope on everything one would hope one would hope how does music crossover to like art and Theater and are they mixed cuz you you you’ve seen all sometimes. Um, let’s see how I don’t know how much music crosses over into theater unless you’re a band that has a song that perhaps the the theater director wants to use in the Broadway or off-Broadway piece.

35:41 You know, art, there’s art when you put an album cover together. So, I don’t know. And then like Blue Man Group was right in the East Village? Well, forget about Blue Man Group. They’re still running right now.

35:54 They’re in Vegas right now as well. But they’re still out in the East Village on Lafayette Street over 25 years now because it’s an exciting piece to watch. So when tourists come to New York, it’s one of those things to see in New York and they’ve survived. It’s amazing. But that could only also come from the East Village, right?

36:12 It was that vibe. Well, yes, then. You could be creative and you could do those things. Well, because people in the East Village at that point in time were being very adventurous with what they were saying and painting and doing. And people could squat there so you could get talent that would just move in.

36:30 I mean, you know, John Joseph used to squat there. that probably made a difference, right? Cause you had all these diverse types of people on top of each other being creative. Well, I think there was a certain energy that whether you were squatting or not, but it was like, I have to do this. You know, we can use Keith again as an example.

36:50 He was a young person who had to make art. So all hours of the night when nobody was around or sometimes when he thought no one was around, he would take his black magic marker big white pieces of chalk and on these huge blank canvases he would start making really fun lyrical type drawings and sometimes he got caught by the police and um but he was also someone very very prolific and I believe well I don’t think he died in his early 30s of AIDS and that was the beginning of us starting to hear of young artists passing away from AIDS. Now because he was a street artist, a lot of that stuff doesn’t exist on the street anymore. But the LGBTQ Center on West 13th Street in New York City has a bathroom that it was his last mural six months before he died and it’s the whole four walls of this bathroom it’s very erotic very sexual and it works at the LGBTQ Center and they knew not to take it down and they kind of landmarked it so they will always be a piece of Keith if you ever want to go to the LGBTQ Center on West 13th Street and go to the bathroom and see that mural and it’s a beautiful thing isn’t amazing though he died in his early 30s and he had such a impact on the world. Well because yes because he was that great not good he was that great he was that prolific he knew that he had he I don’t know if he knew well let me backtrack just for a second forgive me he had so much energy that he painted morning noon and night and it was in him that this is what I do

38:42 So he left us with a huge body of work yeah which we’re lucky for so I moved to in New York City in 93. And so I, not bad. I know. I’ve missed a lot of this by five or six years and I always feel like I wish I’d been there a little earlier, but, and I was drawn to the East Village. I worked on Wall Street and people were like telling me live here, live here, but I did not want to live in the Upper East Side with all these college kids.

39:05 And so I was just drawn and I moved to, I was on 10th Ave between third and fourth. So it’s not that, but I could walk down to the East Village and I always wanted to go there. I always walked East, not West. And this is when Giuliani was starting to put cops on corners. And so at least I didn’t feel so safe because I was coming from Boston.

39:23 But, you know, even going down to Avenue A then was a little bit, you know, it felt weird. And Avenue B, really I wouldn’t go to and then C, just forget about it. Well, it was very tricky. It was very scary. Yeah.

39:35 It wasn’t safe. And everybody in New York knew that and they would say it’s not safe. But, you know, when people have to live somewhere and it’s cheap, that’s where you went. Also, is that where the great art is? I was just going to say, and lucky for us, that’s where a lot of great art came out of.

39:53 Has it always come out of places that aren’t safe? Not necessarily that’s not safe. I think when there’s creativity, all kinds of creativity in big cities, whether you’re in San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York City, because of that creativity, art is always just going to happen in all forms. I went to CBGBs in 93 or 94 because my roommate was in a band, even though he had graduated from NYU. Of course he was in a band.

40:23 Right, everybody. He used to go out, it was called Plastique and he used to go out and paint, he would just go out with a stencil and paint the sidewalks. That said Plastique. Yeah, it said Plastique. I think I remember this.

40:36 Really? Vaguely, but yes. He was a white boy and then we also had a black kid that was like a rapper and he would sing and they had a thing and his name was Pete Braganza and he would just go out there and he was just obsessed with it. And they would go gig anywhere, they wouldn’t get paid, and I would go and we’d have a little mosh pit. And so they went to CBGBs, I think he later got signed to that label that Rupert Murak’s son had really early on.

41:00 And they had a video on one of those pay per channels or something, so that was my experience. And I used to go around to a bunch of these venues on Bleecker Street, and to nice guy Eddie’s, and like anywhere they would let him play. And that was kinda why I went to CBGBs. And I remember seeing it and just being like, wow this place is weird and unique and kind of special and then only later I heard the history and John Joseph told me about it and so well you said something very interesting that about being obsessed we’re all if you love music if you love art if you love theater and you’re in any of those things you are obsessed you have to be obsessed in a in a beautiful creative way or else It’s like what are you doing it for? Yeah, yeah, that’s really well said Yeah, and then the East Village is something going on there It was always later I moved to Houston between A and B and I always wanted to live down there and it was just a little bit edgy and fun And you’re indeed weird places you would just walk into and find these things and it was bad things going on there and Good things and I don’t know. It was just well, you know, listen, they were all types of bars in the East Village, whether they were transsexual bars or gay S&M bars or rock-and-roll bars. They all existed within blocks of each other because that was the energy of New York. New York was very adventurous. It was all, again, I bring

42:31 It up, put pre-AIDS, because not only did AIDS literally start to kill the gay community, IV drug uses, and all of these people were friends of ours, whether they lived in New York or San Francisco, we were hearing about it in probably 82, I guess, if I’m correct. I don’t even know, why did I bring this up? I don’t know. I have no idea. That’s where my mind went.

42:57 That was part of what was happening in the 80s. There you go. So tell, let’s talk about that. What was that like, you know? Well, I like to speak of my own experience with HIV and AIDS.

43:10 At some point in time, I lived on Washington Street, which was as far west as you could go in the West Village. And on Washington Street, there was a place called the mineshaft. There was the anvil, the spike, and the eagle. And all of us young and maybe not so young gay men would do that walk of shame every night. And…

43:33 Why is it a walk of shame? Well, because you know, it could be straight. They were in a vault. It’s called the vault. The vault was there.

43:39 Oh, I love how you know about the vault. When I went to Wall Street, all the traders would joke about going to the vault. Oh, really? They were adventurous and they didn’t wanna tell you. They would like shock me.

43:48 I was like 21 and I’d be like, what’s the vault? And they’d be like, well, you’re gonna go there and you’re gonna… You’re gonna rent a saddle and someone’s gonna ride you around. There you go. And they were always talking about the vault.

43:57 I never actually went to the vault. You should have gone. You should have gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:02 Did you get saddles and? Oh, I didn’t ever, no, I never really went to the vault. Okay. I mean, maybe I did once or twice, but it wasn’t my thing. It’s mainstream.

44:07 No, not even mainstream. No, not at all, but it just wasn’t my thing. But, so I lived all the way in the West Village there. You know, there was also lots of prostitution going on there with straight women, transsexuals. And you know, I always talk about this.

44:25 I think I even wrote a long poem about it years ago, that there were all these girls on the West side and there would be cars circling at without a state license plates looking for that $20 blow job. And that’s what was going on. So there was a crazy mix of that gay rock and roll that all existed in New York, which is really kind of very exciting because even Times Square with all the porn theaters that I visited all the time. It was just an exciting, fabulous time.

45:00 And then we all found out about this disease that was starting to kill our brothers and sisters. And I think at first they called it GRID. And then I forget which doctor came up with the initials AIDS, acquired immune deficiency syndrome. And soon, in the mid-’80s, everything in my area literally was dead. The bars started closing, all the gay men started dying, and it was really a very troubling time.

45:31 What did you make of that? I mean, it was such a scary thing. Indeed, that’s the word. It was scary. And then if you were gay, you have to hope that, wow, did I get this?

45:43 Very scary. And then all the people on the conservative right are saying these things like, oh, this is your reckoning, and you deserve this, and then it gets really crazy. I mean, we get various forms of that now with other issues. So, yeah, it was just so sad. And, you know, lots of my brothers who I worked with at Electra passed away from it.

46:06 And, you know, back then, it was like in the 50s and 60s, I remember, you couldn’t say the word cancer. You know, people didn’t wanna talk about the C word back then, it was like everything was quiet. And, you know, age, I remember there was a young man who worked in our dance department, who came to my office one day because he knew that I was gay and he could talk to me. And he said, you know, I don’t have what they say I have. And I said, you know what, babe, it doesn’t matter.

46:34 If you feel like you’re ill, go to the doctor, see what they’re asking you to do and just start taking care of yourself. You really need to stop drinking and drugging because it’ll screw up your immune system. And that’s what it was like with a lot of young men. It was, we were all filled with fear. And mostly everybody I know died.

46:58 Wow, mostly everyone you know died. That’s really intense. Yes, from back in the day. And then when you think, just backtrack for two seconds, when you think that somebody like Keith died, I don’t even think he was 33. And when you think of the fabulous, famous photographer Robert Maplethorpe, I think he was 42 years old.

47:17 Another person, wildly prolific, but 42 at the prime of his life, making the most beautiful photography ever and cut down by the virus. I don’t remember when I acquired it, but it was at some point in the 80s and I stayed what’s called asymptomatic for a very long time where there were no symptoms. And then one time I started just feeling sick and my glands were always swollen and I had zero energy, and my doctor told me, you know, you’re positive. And it was the worst day of my life.

47:53 It was even bad when I had to tell my mother. Yeah, I can imagine. And that was late 80s. Late 80s, early 90s, yes. How do you process all that?

48:04 I don’t know, I was just, I was filled with fear. And I only told a few of my friends who I knew who just understand. And everybody wound up, that I knew anyway, because I’m in the arts and in music and everybody in the theater was dying. Artists were dying. And, you know, we just had to rally around and support each other.

48:28 I actually got sick in 92 or 93 and had 18 T-cells. You know, maybe as a healthy person, you have 1200 T-cells. So your immune system is strong. I had 18 T-cells and that meant anything could just come and get me. And so when you have AT&T cells and your viral load is very, very high, I had so many like white blood cells and I had what was called AIDS.

48:56 And I was on my sofa for about six months. And I had a doctor who was at the forefront of all this Barbara Starrett. She was exquisite. She was really incredible. And I love her because she kept me alive.

49:09 Before she went to the AIDS ward at St. Vincent’s Hospital where I said, I’m not going, because I knew if I was there, I was gonna die. So she didn’t like that idea, because I was at long-term pain. Why’d you think you were gonna die if you went there? Well, because everybody was just dying.

49:23 Oh, if I went there, I just felt like you get sicker in a hospital. That was just my take. So I stayed home. I had great health insurance back then. So she would come visit me on her bicycle at five o’clock in the morning before she did her rounds at St. Vincent’s.

49:39 And she really liked me so much. And so, you know, I liken it now to Dallas Buyers Club. It was crazy. So she would come and I would get vitamin IV drips. Maybe everybody was going to Mexico for some kind of a pill.

49:55 And I did whatever she said to do, I just did it. And at one point she said, you know, Michael, there is a medication that just came out called AZT. And I don’t want you to take it. I said, you know what, Barbara? I’m laying here.

50:08 I’ve lost so much weight, I can’t keep food in, I can’t keep food down, and I don’t know what to say, I don’t think I’m gonna make it, and she was always very encouraging to me, and I didn’t take AZT. AZT killed a lot of my friends, because they didn’t know, do you take this much, or do you take this much, and if you take this much, it does nothing, you take this much, it kills you. So I was very lucky to have somebody that’s smart looking after me, and I don’t know how many months after that, maybe a year later, the antivirals just started coming onto the market and I took, started taking the antivirals and I was still very skinny, I still had anemia but my immune system was building up.

50:50 I don’t know how long after that, I was back at my job at Electra, I was skinny, skinny, skinny but you know, I was intending in my mind, I wanted to beat this and you know, in the 90s people were still filled with fear, How can I get, can I get it, kissing someone on the cheek? Can I get it from the toilet bowl if I sit down? I mean, people didn’t know. Okay, I understand, people were fearful, but can you imagine how I feel knowing that people feared touching me, hugging me, giving me a kiss on the cheek?

51:24 You know, it’s scary stuff. It’s, you know, it just fills you with sadness and fear. But the good news is that it’s 2019. I am very healthy. They can’t even find the virus in my body.

51:40 It’s at a zero level, which is extraordinary. And I think part of that is because I don’t drink a drug anymore. I take very good care of myself and here we are. Wow, that’s powerful. I remember the scare.

51:54 I remember, and I was in New York City in 93 and- Well, that’s a time. Yeah, and everyone’s scared and why you were in a condom and people were talking about it. And, you know, do you have this? Who can get this? What’s going on with this?

52:08 How do you get it? And then, you know, people are dying and it’s still a big mystery and there’s no cure at that point. So it’s like, it’s not like today. Well, today, I mean, there is no cure. I wish there was.

52:19 I wish there was a cure for all these other things, cancer and whatnot. But, you know, a friend recently told me, He’s in his fifties and he just zero converted, which is positive. And I wanted to shake him and slap him in the head and said, really? At age 53, but you can’t do that. You can’t point a finger.

52:39 So you have to be loving and kind. And I said, do you want the good news or do you want the good news? The good news is it’s 2019. And the other part of the good news is if you take care of yourself and if you have good healthcare, great doctor and do what you’re told, you’re gonna live. I’ve known about this in my life for 27 years, well, no, I knew I was positive, oh my god, over 30 years now, but like I said I was asymptomatic for about 10 years, then all of a sudden 93 I was a mess.

53:11 In any event, it’s all doable these days, there are medicines out there to help you stay alive, but you got to take care of yourself, you can’t still be doing crystal meth and coke and crack and drinking because it just screws your immune system, so I don’t do any of that anymore and I don’t preach but you know I’d like to tell people who confide in me about themselves like you just got to take care of yourself and what you know when you lead a healthy life what a wonderful thing that is and because if you’re leading a healthy life then you’re showing up for your life and you’re doing good things hopefully for yourself and helping others and I’m sure I just went on a very long tangent here but you Now what, when you talk to people, it’s not just gonna be about music, it’s gotta be about life.

53:59 And that’s why my documentary, some people say, was it a gay film? No, is it a heavy metal film? No, but it incorporates all of that because I had a life. Andrew Stone and Michael Alex chose to tell my story. And my story involves music, addiction, recovery, HIV, HIV, sobriety, and thriving.

54:24 And that’s what I do, I thrive. Tell me about the substances in the 80s and what it was like part of the scene. Listen, it was crazy. Everybody, oh now I’m wiping my nose. I think I had like a tickle, that’s all.

54:39 What, the 80s? Well, the 80s were years of excess. We know that because many films have been made about the 80s and that’s just what it was. You know, it was years of excess, everybody, you know, that’s how you bribe people with drugs and alcohol if you’re in the music business. I remember once reading about a radio promotion guy who was like a big wig, one of the labels, and you know, he had a wife and he had a mistress and a girlfriend, and I’m trying to remember the story, but it didn’t end well, because it all had to do with coke and a mistress.

55:19 And I think the story went that he was having sex with one of the gals and I think the wife or one of the other gals came in and shot him and killed him. I forget who it was. So we’ll just leave it at that. We’ll just leave it at that. Glad it wasn’t me.

55:36 But anyway, of course, yes, we don’t know. Yes, cocaine was very big in the 80s. And I would say the 90s as well. And people enjoyed it. And I’m sure you can enjoy it until you don’t enjoy it anymore.

55:49 And what was your story? What was your history with the substances? Well, I have a very addictive personality. So if I drank, I didn’t just have a six pack. I didn’t want to get fat either.

56:00 So I didn’t just have a six pack. I would then say, oh, I want to drink some liquor. I liked clear liquor. I liked vodka. And then I’d be like, well, you know, I don’t want to really drink vodka anymore.

56:09 So I’m going to have Jägermeister. So at the Jägermeister point, I black out. And nevermind that I didn’t know where I was. Sometimes I would wind up on the floor of my apartment, not know how I got there. Or sometimes that when I came out of the blackout, I would be in the back of a taxi arguing with the cab driver because he wouldn’t let me smoke crack in the back of his taxi cab, which I don’t blame him.

56:32 But you know, and then there would be a baseball bat in the whole thing. Because you know, cab drivers in New York, if they were picking people up in the middle of the night, it was scary. drivers were getting killed. So they usually had something to protect themselves under the seat of their car. Would you get violent when you got- Oh, I did, I did.

56:52 I was arrogant, because I wanted to do what I wanted to do. And you were a powerful, up-and-coming guy. But that had nothing to do with it when you’re anonymous, when you’re in the back of a cab. He doesn’t know anything about you, except what the heck is this person doing? Who the fuck is this guy?

57:05 Yeah, correct, which I wasn’t that guy yet. So that went on for many years, because- I liked it. I was very willful, and I just didn’t want to give it up. And it was also part of the scene. It was totally a part of the music scene.

57:18 Different if you had a day job, because it, that’s good. It could have been, but was it different on Wall Street in the 80s and 90s? No, but I can only speak of the music business, because like I said, I was in music from 1980 till 2005. And like in the 80s and 90s, it was just so prevalent. Everybody was doing it.

57:37 But you know, for me, because I have this addictive personality, At some point, I knew, I gotta stop. And when did you know that? Well, at first I stopped because I thought I was gonna lose my job. When I was 32, I went to Hazleton in Minneapolis. I was arrogant and I was hateful because I still wanted to drink, but it was becoming a problem at my job.

57:58 And, you know, Hazleton was fabulous. My heroin buddies went to Hazleton. They were cute young men there. Oh yeah, he was cute. That’s why I stayed.

58:07 And, you know, I did the 30-day program, excuse me again, I went back to Electra, I was clean and sober, and I was not having a good time. I wanted to drink, but if I did, I would have lost my job. And music and working for Bob at Electra meant the world to me. So I stayed what’s called dry for eight years. I mean, when you don’t have any kind of program, you just don’t drink, and that’s not fun because you still feel that tension.

58:44 You’re white-knuckling. White-knuckling it. And then you’re like, That’s not sustainable. Oh, it’s just, it’s not fun. And it keeps you up in other ways.

58:51 Oh yes, indeed. Interesting, all right. So, eight years later at 40, somebody said, do you wanna drink? I said yes, and 40 to 47 were the worst years of my life. Yeah, because I knew I was positive, but I was drinking, I was taking my meds with vodka and beer.

59:12 And one day, I’ll never forget it, it was the weekend of, last weekend in October, I was over the top with coke and champagne and I was pacing my apartment until I passed out. And then the next morning I woke up, I was definitely foggy and I knew I had to do something about my life because my liver hurt, my brain hurt, my soul hurt, everything hurt. And it wasn’t doing my immune system any good at all to still be doing all of this. So I stopped. I went to a 12-step meeting.

59:50 First time you’ve gone to 12 steps? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

59:56 And I was scared. I was scared of who’s going to see me. Really, you’re scared who’s gonna see you when they picked you up off the ground the night before, when they dragged you in a cab, everybody saw you. So, you know, we have fear and shame a lot of people when you decide you’re gonna make a 180 degree change in your life. And that’s what I did that Sunday, October 21st, 2007.

1:00:18 I made that change. I was fearful of walking into that program, but you know, everybody else has in that program, If you’re in that room, any room where you’re seeking help, everybody’s there for the same reason. They don’t want their old life back. They want a new life. And in that new life that I have, I don’t drink or drug no matter what.

1:00:41 I still go to five meetings a day. I go to the morning because I feel like that just helps my brain. And five days a week, it’s a one hour meeting. And if one hour can help change my mind, I’m going. And so every weekday you go Monday to Friday. Yes. Yes. I wake up usually about six six thirty. I put all

1:01:05 Meditations prayers rock and roll on all social media Hoping that it helps other people. I make my bed I have tea and I walk to my program and I do that Monday to Friday 9 a.m. And That’s been the biggest help in my life This year in a few months. I turned 60 October 13th I never thought I was going to make it this long, but I did. And then October 21st, I’ll have 12 years clean and sober.

1:01:37 And that really is a blessing for me because I show up for my life, I show up for your life, I show up for people’s lives who need help. And the same way I was given help, I want to help others as well. It’s extraordinary, you know when you show up you become a responsible person and people can now really trust you That when Michael says he’s gonna do something he’s gonna do it And that’s how I live my life and you don’t miss the days when people couldn’t trust you or when you didn’t show no Not at all, you know, but you remember that. Oh, I remember it not remembering. That’s right every morning. That’s right That’s still a serious discipline You have to have that discipline.

1:02:18 If you don’t have that discipline, I believe you’re doomed to just go back to the old ways. Because it will go back if you don’t stay. Well, right. It’s possible, right? Yes, anything is possible in life.

1:02:29 And I think things one has to do with addiction and drink and drugs is a powerful thing. And it kills, it really does. You know, I remember there was a young kid who sat next to me in my 12 step meeting. He was adorable, 25 years old. His parents had all the money in the world, but he liked shooting up.

1:02:54 So I kept calling him one day saying, “‘Where are you?'” He had a mitzvah meeting in two weeks, and it was near Christmas, and out of the blue, I was on social, not out of the blue, I was on social media, and out of the blue, a friend of his posted that his mom found him dead in New Year’s Eve with a needle in his arm. Can you imagine your mother finding you in the bathroom with a needle in your arm? Well, you know what? Happy New Year. Yeah.

1:03:26 Happens all the time, though. We hear about these things all the time. So that’s why there’s tough love out there. But still, if people don’t wanna get clean and sober, they’re not gonna get clean and sober until they go, you know what, I really am ready. I don’t want to feel like this anymore.

1:03:42 I don’t want to lie. I don’t want to steal from my mother’s handbag. I don’t want to go into your medicine chest and steal your meds, you know? I remember a friend of mine, his dad was dying. He stole all his dilators, his pain medication, because he couldn’t help himself.

1:03:57 It’s what we do as addicts. But, you know, when you decide to change your life and you mean it, one really changes their life. And it’s extraordinary because, you know, If I didn’t change my life, you and I would not be here talking. I wouldn’t be in London. If I didn’t change my life, Drew Stone wouldn’t have come and made a film about me.

1:04:17 What, does he wanna make a film about it like a junkie? An addict, an alcoholic? No, he wants to make a film about how a young Puerto Rican gay kid in Brooklyn could come up in the ranks and be wildly successful, fall down a few times for many reasons as we’ve just talked about in this interview and I rise to the occasion. And I’m here, and I’m clean and sober. And so he made this film that we’ve talked about that’s on Netflix, who the F is that guy, the fabulous journey of Michael Alago.

1:04:48 And it’s been on Netflix for a year. And I get, Netflix thing was a game changer because two days later I got 1200 emails from people. And I looked and I just kept scrolling going, wait, what is that, 890? Kept scrolling, wait a minute, 1200 emails. And I thought, what am I gonna do?

1:05:08 So one day, I started drinking my black tea in the morning. I must’ve had three or four cups of black tea. I was a little wired, didn’t know if I liked the feeling, but I said, I’m writing back to every single person. So some of the, because we told the truth in the documentary, the messages ranged from, dude, you signed Metallica to young people, male and female saying, hi, Michael, I’m 21, I live in Columbia with my dad and if I ever told my dad I had HIV he would murder me but I love that you’re so brave and maybe one day I could be as brave as you. Well when people write to you about rock and roll and say love the movie Love Metallica you’re right back and you say thank you very much I usually send them a fabulous rock and roll picture that takes care of that.

1:06:00 When people are telling you the truth that they can’t even tell their parents of friends and they, because I’ve told the truth, they tell me all their private stuff. You can’t write back to somebody and say, thanks for watching the film. So I had to take time, I might have to, but it was in me to take that time and say, you know what, if you found out you’re positive and you start to need medication, listen to your doctor, take the meds, but you got to take care of yourself.

1:06:34 You can’t drink, you can’t drug. it won’t help your immune system. And I wrote back to people, stories like that, and I added stuff that had to do with faith and hope, and like, it’s all about, everything in life is about one day at a time, no matter what we’re talking about. Whether you’re making a record, whether you’re coming out of a treatment center, we all have to know, we all have today. It’s just about today and the moment that we’re in.

1:06:59 So this film has been a game changer for me also, because it got me here to you, and it’s been a game changer because it got me a book deal and I had a little book coming out in November. And what is the book about? It’s more of me if people could even stand that. Yeah, well, you know, in 88 minutes of a film you can’t tell everything. So a lot of this is, I didn’t mean it to come out as short stories but there’s probably about 38 short stories.

1:07:30 Some are on page long and some are 20 pages long. And we talk about Brooklyn. We talk about addiction and recovery. I talk about the Ritz. I talk about Nina Simone.

1:07:42 I talk about making the Memphis Blues with Cindy. There are funny stories in there that I’ve never told before about Lynyrd Skynyrd and that Bill Graham was managing the men. And when you read the book, you’ll know about the story because it’s a good story. So there are a lot of these good stories that people will relate to. If you’re in rock and roll, and if you’re not in rock and roll, like I say, it’s not about one thing.

1:08:08 It’s about somebody’s life who said, I’m gonna do it. I did it, and I live to tell the story. So there’s a lot of different things in the book. It’s called, I Am Michael Alago, and the subtitle is Breathing Music, Signing Metallica, Beating Death. Sounds great.

1:08:29 Thanks. Do you think New York City can breed addictions people or magnify because when I was there New York does that it’s either in you or it’s not you either like the idea that you’re gonna drink and I’m gonna do it whether you like it or not it has nothing to do with where you are because addiction lives all over the world yeah so in some places even worse than others and it can get worse in New York pardon is it more convenient no no I think any place you go if you have it in your system that I’m gonna drink and drug and I like it, then you’re gonna do it. Don’t matter where you are.

1:09:08 Don’t matter your status in life. Yeah, I’ve all seen that. Yeah, I was in New York City. I went there as a drinker and then my buddies pulled out the drugs and they liked the cocaine and then, as you know, anything goes in New York City and so then the heroin came out. Ouch, oh no.

1:09:27 And that was my thing. For me, that was my thing. A lot of people wanted to be up. I wanted to just be safe in my happy world and that got really dangerous to where I woke up in a hospital. Well, it gets dangerous and it’s not a happy world anymore and then you have to make a decision.

1:09:47 I’m gonna keep doing this or you’re not. And from the looks of you, it looks like you stopped a long time ago if I may say so. Yeah, I did, I got lucky. But I got the hell out of New York in 01 which, you know, they’ll probably tell you in AA, leaving the city isn’t the way to get out of it, but for me, I think me leaving helped and it also got me to a new mentality and around a new peer group. Well, that’s wonderful.

1:10:11 With no dealers around and that was. But also, you know, I think you can find those dealers anywhere you go. Yeah, you’re right. You could sniff, pun not intended, you could sniff those people out, but you made a conscious decision that I have to do something else with my life. And that’s something else with your life was not drinkin’ drugs anymore.

1:10:30 So, you know, you lived, you are thriving, and that’s the beautiful thing I always say about life. And I love how you put it, it’s like when you’re sober, you can just show up every day to bring your gift. Well you do, you show up for whatever your thing is. Yeah, and like bring your gifts. And when people see that, they’re like, I can do that too, it’s great.

1:10:52 And when you don’t do it, you realize how much you’re just wasting your life. Oh, totally, yeah. And some people do choose to waste their lives. What a pity that is, but you know, you can’t stop people from doing it. You either wanna stop and start having a new life or you don’t, and we see that all the time.

1:11:11 And then as sometimes accidentally, we see our friends who sometimes say, I’m gonna get clean and sober, and then where is so-and-so? Oh, you know, they found him or her dead last week. It happened, and this is not like an exaggeration. This happens, excuse me again, this happens all the time. Drugs and alcohol kill, it kills, and that’s why I just don’t do it anymore.

1:11:38 I love waking up with a clear head. I love waking up, getting my cup of tea, and remembering where I was the night before. My brain may not be as good as it used to be, but I still have part of it, And in this new life, I wouldn’t trade it for the world because I’m here to serve and help others. And when you do that, that’s such a satisfying feeling in your soul to just do that. So powerful, but you’re right.

1:12:06 Yes, it is, very powerful. But you’re right, you can’t make that decision for someone else. Oh, no, not at all. I mean, hopefully people- You can suggest. You can suggest and they can hear your story.

1:12:15 But I went so down a toxic hole that basically everyone around me got the hell out. and I never blamed them for it because I was like that’s exactly what you should have done because I was being selfish and I was making decisions that made me feel better and my girlfriend left me, my best friend left me, fired me for my job and it was no one around anymore and without them I would have probably kept doing it and I would have not survived one of those overdoses. I mean I made it through two of them and so now I have to thank them later because and I always tell people if you’re around someone going down that toxic hole You know, you can talk to them, but then you gotta get the fuck out.

1:12:53 Yes. Because they’ll pull you down. And that’s probably the most loving decision you can make for them. Oh, absolutely. And maybe they’ll get the message, and I got the message.

1:13:02 Oh, it’s wonderful. Somewhere deep subconsciously. I got a big punch in the gut. You did. You did.

1:13:08 Yes. And it’s just, I don’t know, it just rewired my brain. Are you married? I am now, yeah. Do you have kids?

1:13:13 Yes, I do. How many? Two and a stepdaughter. Okay, thank you. That’s all I wanted to know.

1:13:18 Yeah, and they wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for that. There you go. I mean, how wonderful that is. Really, it’s wonderful. Yeah.

1:13:24 Do you miss the music business? I know, because I’m still in the music business, whatever we call the music business these days, in my own way. You know, I officially left record companies in 2005, 2009 and 2010, that’s when Cindy called me, and I made two fabulous records with her. I probably did more things along the way, but I found a little band called Ether Coven in South Florida. My cousin Julie sent me an independent release and she said, you know, my neighbor’s son is in a band.

1:13:55 Like I haven’t heard that for 30 years. So I like rolled my eyes and I said, yes, Julie, please send me the CD. She sent me the CD. It’s fabulous. It’s heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy.

1:14:10 And I loved it. And I was gonna help these people. So I went to South Florida to see them. They were marvelous, very dark, very brooding, very hypnotic metal. I took their independent release, I sent it to 10 independent labels.

1:14:28 And these days, independent labels, major labels, all they care about are numbers. At first, it didn’t click on numbers. Numbers, am I that old that I don’t even know what they’re talking about? Numbers, numbers are your Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook numbers, which burned me up. Because numbers have nothing to do with the quality of what you do as an artist.

1:14:52 It’s a number. And if you’re signing someone to a label, it’s your job in the ANR department as an executive to get those numbers up. So nine out of the 10 labels said, man, dude, you’ve got a great band, but their numbers are terrible. And I was like, give me back my CD. And finally, this one adventurous ANR guy, Mike Gitter, who’s a friend of mine at Century Media, I said, Michael, you know, I’m gonna take a chance with these guys, I love them, I think as much as you do.

1:15:18 Well, he signed them. You know, you don’t get as much money as you used to, but we have a little album budget. They paid for the independent release that they were gonna pick up. We have a video budget, and the guys are just finishing up in Tampa, Florida right now with a producer named Eric Rattan. I hope I said his name, Eric Rattan.

1:15:38 Eric, if I didn’t forgive me, but I think I did, he was in a band called Morbid Angel, And people, when they hear that Morbid Angel are producing EtherCov and they lose their mind, I don’t know when the new album’s coming out, probably by the end of the year. And so, yes, I do still work in the music business on my terms when I find somebody who’s great, which is for me, which is few and far between these days. But I love music, I still go out when I feel it.

1:16:03 And I’m glad I listened to my cousin, Julie, and listened to that CD. And what is the state of the music business in this day and age? It’s scary. It’s not what it used to be people don’t really buy records like they used to everything is about streaming and numbers I Don’t know what to say beyond that frustrates you it’s a price frustrating because it’s a relationship. It’s a storytelling. It’s a feeling It’s not a number. Yes. Oh, absolutely. What does a number tell you about somebody’s talent?

1:16:34 Nothing. I don’t know what you’re talking about. If you give me a number, what are you? Who are you? What are you saying?

1:16:39 No, but we live in a world now where everything is fast, music business or non-music business. Gimme gimme gimme, I want it now. Even if you like texting your best friend, hey, you haven’t texted me back in two hours like, you know, what’s up? It’s like, excuse me, I’m not glued to the damn phone. I still have a life, you know, I call these smart devices, necessary evils.

1:17:04 I mean, also it’s one of those things you damned if you do, damned if you don’t. if you don’t have one of these devices, you can’t get around, you know? You do sometimes have to get to people and say, oh, I’m on the wrong corner, please meet me five blocks down, you know, whatever. So I also find like, you know, the internet has pulled people apart, but it’s also been a fantastic device to help pull people together, to get stuff done. You see these music collaborations with 20 people around the world that have never met each other.

1:17:37 That’s right. And they make this hit song. What do you make of that? Wonderful, that that can happen, you know? That Britney Spears is in Vegas and Max Martin may be in Sweden and then their other person is in the Bronx and they take these tracks and they pull them together and they send them to Britney.

1:17:54 I have no idea why I brought her up and they say, write a lyric. And you know, these things happen every day. I think that type of collaboration happens more between R&B, hip-hop, and Top 40. I don’t listen to Top 40. Top 40 has never been my thing.

1:18:12 Top 40 to me, it’s pop music, that popular music that people are drawn to. Lots of things, voices are auto-tuned these days. I find it for me to be very cold and homogenized and I’ve never liked anything like that. But that also is part of the way of the world and what people are listening to a lot of these days. That new song, I think, was Old Town Road.

1:18:42 It was like a country hip-hop. I should’ve known that, but there’s an article in the New York Times and it was like 20 people around the world that made this country hip-hop song. Probably. With a beat from some guy in Sweden who’s never seen a horse before. Correct.

1:18:55 And then they found a country singer afterwards to do a vocal to it and then it just blew up. And it’s just this weird thing and none of them have ever met each other or will. How wonderful is that, though, that that can happen? And it all happens through laptops and emails. So that’s beautiful.

1:19:14 But there’s a man who loved the album and the storytelling of an album. The album is kind of dead these days, right? Well, not in my book, and not in a lot of people’s book. Because vinyl is made of comeback. I love that vinyl is 12 inches by 12 inches.

1:19:27 You can love and appreciate the art. And if you have extra money, you have a gatefold, You open it up and you see lyrics and you want to know who are the new musicians who have played on there, who produced this, who engineered it, where did they record it. I love all that information and there are many people out there who love that information. So I started buying vinyl again. I went to eBay and I’m now on this kick of my favorite female vocalists from the 50s and I want everything by Joe Stafford.

1:20:00 And then I’ve gotten to a kick about Halia Jackson. I must have just purchased six of her albums on vinyl mint condition from eBay and everything was affordable. So I love vinyl these days. And what vinyl does that CDs don’t do is vinyl has a very warm feeling to it. It’s big.

1:20:22 It has atmosphere and texture. Not to say that CDs don’t do that but we have had to compress CDs to such a place that it’s a different feeling. One hopes if you don’t have the best mastering guy in the world that he or she didn’t master your record where your teeth hurt when you listen to it because it’s so tinny. So that’s a very delicate balance there too when you master a record. But I love vinyl.

1:20:47 I love vinyl like I said because it’s so warm and hypnotic and beautiful and it brings back to the day as being a teenager and I love that people want a sonic youth record on vinyl because they make vinyl. I love that I could find this old Billy Holiday record because somebody didn’t want it anymore on eBay and it was nine dollars and it’s still a VG, it’s not an STD, it’s a VG, very good condition. So you know, I don’t know, I don’t know what I’m talking about anymore.

1:21:16 We’re talking about music, we’re talking about vinyl, we’re talking about the state of the music business these days. We’ve talked about recovery and thriving and living a great life and that’s what we want for everybody to have a great life. Doesn’t always work out that way. Advice. So you pray and you hope and you have faith.

1:21:33 Yeah, advice to musicians these days? Well, yes, of course. The following success secrets are only available inside the London Real Tribe, where you get exclusive access and insights from our high performance guests on wealth creation, productivity, leadership, morning routines, health, and well-being. To join our tribe community, go to londonreal.tv forward slash tribe. Now, let’s continue with the show.

1:22:02 What if I was to ask five of your best friends, maybe people like John Joseph or Cindy, or the guys from Metallica, if I was to ask, what is Michael’s superpower? How is this man able to do everything that you’ve done? What would they say it is? Well, he tells you the truth. He only works with people and things that he loves.

1:22:22 Even when people say to him, oh, you know, that’s gonna be big. And if I’m talking about myself in third person now, that if he doesn’t feel like something’s gonna be big, like I never wasted my time on other people telling me that’s gonna be big. It might’ve gotten big, but if I didn’t feel it, I couldn’t live with myself. So I think people would say he tells the truth And he only works with artists that he really feels passionate about. And that’s the beauty of what Michael does in third person.

1:22:53 That’s good. Advice in business. What’s the best thing you learn about how to do business over the years? I stay out of it and let the business affairs department handle that. Okay, all right.

1:23:05 And the lawyers and the managers. I don’t do that. Let them handle the contracts. Yes, of course. That’s why there are departments for that.

1:23:11 I only, over all the years, I would go to Gary Kasten, who I adored in our business affairs department at Electra, and say, Gary, I just signed this band. We need them, make that deal happen. You know, I don’t do that. I make records with artists, you know? I find them producers.

1:23:28 I put a budget together. I hand that budget into business affairs. But you know, music, business, I always just stay out of the business as much as I can because I only wanted to stay in the creative side of things. And what makes a good producer? Hearing the same things that an A&R person hears, that they have songs, that the arrangements are great, that they know that sonically they could make this band something.

1:23:53 And after that we all hope and pray that if it’s a full moon and it feels good out there and the time is right that something’s going to happen with this record. Now there are times when record companies and producers say, well we got the biggest record of the year, we’re going to have this, we’re going to do that. And you could do all this marketing, you could do all this publicity, you could do all of this stuff, and sometimes nothing happens. And it’s just the way of the world.

1:24:20 Not everyone is going to be big. Not everything makes it. But you’ve got to hope and pray, at least I hope and pray every day, about everything. And try your best. Oh, always do your best.

1:24:31 So go down to Memphis. You must always do your best. If you think that’s going to make the best record. Absolutely. And we were talking about moments ago with young people, and what do I do?

1:24:38 You always put your best foot forward. You always perform on stage as if it was your last night on earth. Or if you’re thinking, wow, that A&R person could be in the audience. You got to give it to the people as best you got. Jon Joseph said that, well, he used to talk about the bad brains.

1:24:55 Oh, yes. He loves the bad brains. And I never really heard of the bad brains, so I started hanging with Jon. Never too late. And then I watched, there’s like a CBGB set, it’s like 50 minutes long.

1:25:04 And I watched it and I was like, okay, now I get it because it looks like they used to put everything on the line when they would perform. blood, sweat, and tears, all of it, yes. I think John was inspired by that when the Cro-Mags started in touring because he was just like, every show has to be like, I gotta do something crazy, I gotta jump 50 feet off to the thing and all that stuff. Well, he’s also one of those people we discussed that is that wildly charismatic.

1:25:28 And, you know, he did all the same things that we did back in the day. But how wonderful it is that he totally turned his life around, he writes books, he still sings for the Cro-Mags. Um, you know, he’s out there helping people and doing service in the world That’s what we do and doing service in the world one person at a time We all hope that the world feels that so that it all just becomes a better place It’s nice to see you kind of older wiser guys that have been through it coming at the other end like sober and giving back Well, yes If you don’t do that, then you’re being selfish and then if you if you don’t do that then I don’t know, are you happy by being selfish?

1:26:12 I don’t think so. So that’s why we do all, do what we do. I mean, we go clean and slower. Slower, yeah. When we become clean and sober, we help other people because all of that stuff, we didn’t pay for that.

1:26:24 That was so freely given to us. So we have to help that next person and that person helps the next person. And it all just helps with everything in the world because it’s a crazy world out there. When we open those doors again, hit the streets, you never know what’s gonna happen. That’s it.

1:26:43 Yeah, that’s true, and big shout out to John Joseph. Oh yes, always, I love John Joseph. People don’t know half the stuff he does. I mean, he’s out there feeding home the homeless, giving away free books of the Hare Krishna stuff. He was really generous for this time with me.

1:26:57 Oh good, I love hearing that. And he’s such an inspiration and being so honest about his story as well. I mean, that’s another gift to give back, and you do that too. being really honest about vulnerable moments in your life and with him and sexual abuse and all that stuff and it really resonates with people, so. Well, because, you know, those are some of the stories that they don’t know if they could tell.

1:27:19 Can I really tell this? But when they hear John Joseph say that or Michael Alago say that, they sometimes wanna tell you their story or they say to themselves, if they can get through all that, I can get through all that too. That’s inspiring. You wanna be inspiring to everyone. Yeah, there’s a moment in the movie we made, and it was right when I met you in New York City, we filmed it in the East Village, and we’re on a sofa, and I’m telling John about my heroin addiction and overdose for the first time.

1:27:47 Oh, wow. And then John’s talking about his sexual abuse, and you got these two guys, and we’re having this conversation. I’m crying. Guys. Dudes. Dudes, yeah.

1:27:56 And my crew is there, like, what is going on? They didn’t know this, and my wife had never heard the story. Oh, wow. And it’s a big part of the movie, powerful because it enables a lot of people to say oh and then I get those emails like you did this happened to me and yeah all this and I didn’t know you know if a Wall Street banker can be a heroin addict and well I didn’t this is my story and my story and you know as we know it’s also one of those things you could be the most famous person in the world you could have all the money in the world none of that matter is when I guess you have this you’re sad you’re lonely you have an addictive personality and you go down that road one just to And then in the end, always hopes that you come out of it because you saw some kind of white light or had some form of grace or something happen to you where you say, okay, it’s time to change because I know I’m gonna die, so.

1:28:47 Yeah, now in your life, what scares you now in your life? People.

1:28:58 The planet scares me on all different levels, You know, climate control, I still hear, we all still hear about knifings and stuff in the street, and I guess that scares me. But you know, I’m brave enough where I don’t let any kind of fear overtake my life. So, I don’t know if I just answered you correctly or not. You did, and what would those fears be that might take over your life? Well, if I have fear of all this stuff going on in the world, maybe I wouldn’t leave my house anymore, but I’m a brave soldier, I know how to take care of myself.

1:29:44 I do love the world, really, even when I sometimes say, oh, people, you know, that’s just me being a curmudgeon for a few minutes, you know. I want to be out there in the world, you know. I want to help that blind person cross the street. Somebody sees me doing that and they’re going to do it too. I just want to be helpful so I don’t know if I have much fear anymore because I take such good care of myself and because I’m in a program.

1:30:12 Fear was part of the old Michael and so like I said I just want to live in faith and hope and love and God and forgiveness and when you do all that you share that with somebody else it just is like the domino effect and it just happens and you just hope the world just keeps getting better ten years from now what’s Michael doing oh I have absolutely no idea come on we got to stay in the moment because I’m still in London I’m gonna go to the theater I’m gonna go to some art shows over the weekend busy I mean you’re doing well I don’t know how to not be busy okay yeah I love I want I want my brain to be filled with music and art and theater All the time all the time all the time and I want to know a lot about everything and you want to be working on projects And being whatever I can people okay, but you know there are times I just sit at home and relax and put on TCM and watch an old black and white movie and That’s it and home is New York City for you. I’m gonna always be I think so. Yes, okay, John’s in New York City as well Yes, it’s like I love traveling and I’m appreciative that I get to go on this trip because I saved my nickels dimes quarters and two dollar bills, that I was just in Berlin, I’m here in London, I’m gonna go to Paris, and that’s my vacation for the year.

1:31:26 I wanna go home, I’ll do the laundry, I’ll wake up, I’ll go to meetings, and I gotta find a meeting here tomorrow to go to. And life just goes on. So I try to live in the moment as best I can. I can’t predict where I’m gonna be, but I like where I am right now. Yeah, it shows.

1:31:45 Michael, I always ask a few questions at the end. I’m gonna ask you if I could give you a magic phone and you can ring up the 20-year-old Michael and give that young man a bit of advice. I guess he’s at the Ritz at this point. Yes. Okay, just starting off in the music scene, right?

1:32:02 Not even in the music business yet. Out of the closet yet or not? Oh, well, I always tell people, I don’t think I’ve ever been in the closet. I’ve never had fear about who I am. I never cared what people thought about me, even at a very young age.

1:32:18 I don’t know where that came from. Even in Brooklyn, in a Puerto Rican community. Oh, honey, wait till you read some stories in my book that I tell, that I just really, I don’t know why. I just never, that I never had fear of being me. So your question was, if I could speak to 20 year old Michael, be careful, it’s a dangerous scary world out there, but you love music, so you’re gonna thrive in the music business.

1:32:45 If you go down a scary road, always ask for help. I don’t know what else I would say to myself then. Okay, that’s good advice. Pay attention. Pay attention.

1:32:54 Yeah, we have to always pay attention. Yeah, on that same note, best advice you ever received could have been from a musician or at that executive you mentioned or a parent or anything, but. I don’t really remember, so I’ll probably say something like cut the nonsense, you know, meaning pull your act together, get sober in so many words. Did you get that message a few times? I got it a few times he didn’t take until I was 47 years old But as they say better late than never and like I said coming up on 12 years coming up on 60 years of age And it’s a beautiful. It’s all good. It’s all good I really you know one can complain but I have absolutely no complaints I have zero complaints because I get to do what I want. I live the life that I want and And again, here we are.

1:33:40 Yeah, and here we are. Last part of that question, to that 20-year-old that’s listening to us or watching us, advice to them in this new world, this new crazy world that they’re in, as opposed to the one you grew up in, what do you tell them about life? Well, it’s the same thing. If I’m speaking to a 20-year-old, because you and I are talking right this minute, and he or she is there, it’s the same thing. It’s a great big crazy world out there.

1:34:09 Pay attention to the world, be good to yourself. Try not to go down too many dark roads. If you find that you do, always ask for help. It’s that same thing that if you’re asking a 20-year-old reflecting, or if right now, if you have a 20-year-old in your life or I have some kind of a 20-year-old doesn’t have to be a son or a daughter, it could be a friend, son or a daughter, or just a 20-year-old that I know. Just, you know, pay attention, be good to yourself.

1:34:35 Follow your heart. Do what you want to do with your life. You know, like I said, I always knew music was my life, so I followed that road. I guess that’s an answer. What would you tell that 20-year-old right now? Oh my gosh, yeah.

1:34:53 Turn the table. Yeah, look, it’s hard to tell a 20-year-old to not do things you’re gonna do. Of course. They’re gonna do them anyway. They’re gonna find out for themselves, but if you could suggest any goodness for them, you hope that they’re going to take a little bit of the advice. We all have to go through whatever we’re going to go through as a teenager and people that are in our early 20s, that’s just the way of the world, that’s life.

1:35:18 Always going to push the envelope and bring it really close to the end. Right now we still push the envelope in very many ways. Michael, really appreciate you and your story. When I met you in New York, I was there filming with John I think in January right when he challenged me to the Ironman but what I really like about you is you’re really honest about your story and like when you just you told me that story right in East Village and you’re like I think you told me like I really used to love beer and vodka and cocaine and then you’re like and I woke up one morning and I realized that wasn’t serving me and I appreciate that when you talk about your routine I love it and I look forward to your book. Oh thank you. Books coming out this year they can watch the Netflix documentary right now. You can see who the F or who the I don’t I don’t want to say it.

1:36:00 Who the F is that guy? The fabulous journey of Michael Alago. It’s on Netflix and my book. I am Michael Alago. Breathing music, signing Metallica, beating death.

1:36:11 We’ll be out November 15th. I think they might even be advertising it already on Amazon. Excellent. Pre-order it. Okay.

1:36:18 I’ll sign it for you. I’ll kiss it for you. I’ll give you a big hug. There you go. Awesome stuff.

1:36:23 Thank you so much. Thank you. It’s really a pleasure being here with you. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. So much.

1:36:27 All right. Thank you.