Lee Camp - Moment of Clarity

Full transcript: Lee Camp on London Real

8:22 It easy for now whenever I have bus days. Okay, we could choose to believe that or not. And our guest today is Mr Lee Camp, who is American comedian, writer, actor, and activist. You’ve been called the Shea gavara of comedy. That’s pretty cool.

8:35 The heir to the crown of the late George Carlin. Hold on, she said Kell Kelly. It’s a misquote, but I’m someone else. Play. But no, she said there are very few comedians keeping my father’s torch lit.

8:50 So Lee is one of the very few. She, his daughter, or that’s his daughter. So I don’t, I don’t no one said I’m the heir to the crown. All right, fair enough. Fair enough.

8:58 You know, I’m just showering you, no no, no. I love the compliments. I just, I would hate for that to get out there and be like, he just made this s*** up. You might have first seen Lee back in 2008. I know we just got to bring this up.

9:10 You were on Fox News, and you called it a parade of propaganda. They cut to the Star Trek girls. I was embarrassed watching that, to be an American. So, and we’ll talk about that later. But welcome to London.

9:22 Welcome to London Real. Thank you. Thanks for having me, and thanks to the city you now dominate. Thank you. You know, I couldn’t, I can’t believe we almost missed you, because, like, the more I learn about you, it’s like, Jesus.

9:34 Of course Lee should be on the show. You know, you’ve got, you know, Peter to Joseph. We had, um, Jacque Fresco in that chair nine months ago. Yeah. Our oldest guest, at 96, and I don’t know, we, I mean, I’m not saying we have the same message, but it’s like similar things we talk about, and so if someone at that age, you’re a little worried they’ll die in the chair.

9:52 I was worried we had to help him up the stairs. You saw my stairs, those are no joke. And then he was in that chair, and there’s a reason that chair doesn’t have rollers on the bottom, because Jacque kept rolling back during the interview. It was death slowly attracting, and I actually grabbed his chair and pulled him back at one time, and Roxanne Meadows, which is like, you know, she, she goes with him everywhere, and she kind of looks after him. She had gone for a coffee so it was literally just the three of us in this room, and so that’s why the wheels are gone.

10:18 The Fresco effect. The Fresco effect. Yeah, so, um, there you go. I think it was like a guy named Miles Dyer who, is, you know, I don’t know if you know him? Okay, he’s a big YouTube guy.

10:31 He was over here. We were chatting like a week ago, and he’s like, you’ve got to get Lee Camp, and he’s in town and I was just like, okay, I wrote your name down, and then someone else mentioned you, and then you on Twitter and I was like, okay, Jesus, and then we talked. So you’re here. Thank you for, I’m glad I’m here. I’m glad I’m glad we hooked up.

10:46 Yeah. Okay, that’s very cool. Um, I just saw this interview with you where you interviewed Peter Joseph in LA, I think it was, and you guys were saying that, um, more and more these days people are using a medium to get their message across. I think you use comedy, I think, and that you were saying that people are more likely to listen to a message if they’re not just being beaten over the head with it, like, do this, and you kind of bring it in through, I guess, you, with comedy, through him, with various ways of film or performance.

11:12 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, I’m sure your viewers are brilliant, but Peter Joseph, in case anyone doesn’t know, created the Zeitgeist Movement, which is, you know, huge. I don’t know how many chapters around the world but, uh, yeah, we, it seems like he, I think part of our friendship or whatever has been around the fact that he wanted to use more comedy to get the message out about Zeitgeist and things, and so I performed at the Zeitgeist media festival, and then he started putting a lot of comedy into his Culture and Decline web show he does.

11:41 Um, so yeah, I think that, I think that it can just become too much. I mean, we’re all dealing with this s***storm we’re sitting in the middle of, and we’re watching it all burn down, and it’s even activists, you know, even the best, most hardcore activist people that I look up to, is just amazing. It’s like they need a break. You just, there’s no way to not burn out, and so I do it. I do it because I think it’s a good way to attract people that aren’t willing to listen to this type of thing without humor, but I also do it because I, like, I need it for myself.

12:15 Like, if I’m not writing in funny lines, I would just drive my car into a bridge. You know, yeah, I could see that. Cuz, if you keep going back to the same person for the same message, like month after month, I mean, gosh, it’s hard to listen to the same thing. I’m guessing that’s why Peter changed up. I think not only that, but think about how depressing the situation is if you don’t add comedy to it.

12:33 Like you said, you’re going to drive your car off a cliff. Easily. Yeah, and you’re right, you know, it can, it can get bland. It can get, I mean, we do live, whether we love it or not. We live in an ad culture now.

12:45 It’s like, people, you know, the attention span of a mongoose on meth. So you, you have to, you have to have some other little way of kind of saying hey, this isn’t going to be boring. It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s a six-minute video, but you can hang in there. Just there’s some laughs coming. You know, yeah, some of our shows are like 90 minutes, and like, it’s, it’s, try to get someone to sit down for that long.

13:07 Well, well, podcast. I know you also podcast, right? Yeah. So the audio can, the audio people will do other things, and then that’s how we’ve, people have dealt with it, which is nice that people will listen to an hour and a half show or something. You know, right now you put out like, uh, daily, no, every few days, you put out videos where you go right into camera.

13:24 I kind of say Bill Burr style, but I don’t know if he does it into camera, but he does the one-man podcast, like, and he does it, like, very few people can do for, like, an, but you talk right into the camera. It’s like, or 8 minutes long, something like that. Yeah, each, yeah, between four and six minutes long, and it’s two to three times a week, and it’s just, it’s, it’s on an array of topics. I mean, they all kind of usually hit back to the, like, I said earlier, the s***storm we’re in, and various things that are going wrong in the world, or the psychopaths that are, that are, you know, creating an absolutely unsustainable system.

14:03 But it, it varies a lot. It’s not, you know, one week, I mean, I could be on drone attacks, and then the next one I’m talking about life in general and why we’re on this planet. So it, it definitely ranges the gamut. You know, what do you think of all these topics? You have to have, you have to have a ranking.

14:24 You have to, you probably have some idea of what you think is the most important that needs to be solved, and then, going forward, what are, what are those topics? Well, I, I mean, I guess the, it’s, I mean, it’s tough to put it like that, but I, I guess, like, at the root of it, it’s the unsustainable way in which we live. Um, and you know, that takes a lot of different forms, from the environment, uh, to the banking system, but I, I think that there’s a lot of different aspects to that, and I try and connect the dots and say, you know, there’s, here’s what’s wrong with the system, and we could be living a different way, and I don’t have all the answers.

15:05 I don’t claim to be, uh, you know, Jacque Fresco or somebody that’s got all the answers. I mean, sometimes I give answers, but a lot of times I don’t. I just say here’s how shit’s going, and let’s pay attention to this, and let’s start thinking of a different way. Um, and, and yeah, I mean, I guess, I guess, if you were to boil it all down, that’s the root of it. But, well, I’m going to play Devil’s Advocate.

15:28 Um, not because I agree with that viewpoint, but because, this, possibly because you’re the devil, wouldn’t surprise me. It’s the ponytail. but people, people will say that that’s the way that uh humanity is set up, in that we put ourselves on a sort of an unsustainable path, and we keep it going like a Ponzi scheme for as long as we can get it going and then there’s a massive collapse, and there’s a massive correction, and people will sort themselves out, and overall trend will be on a sustainable path, but each individual segment won’t be.

16:02 Do you see what I mean? For example, stock crashes, stock market crashes, are an example of that. Or, um, I see, I see what you’re saying, but those, those are so small compared to creating a planet that no longer can sustain life. Um, I, I agree with you in terms of, you know, maybe the way our capitalist system is set up. You know, bubble inflates and then collapses, and there’s an adjustment, and then, uh, but and so, so that’s one point.

16:31 Another one is that I think you could have a very long-term system in which 90% of people are suffering miserably, and 10% or maybe 1% are doing incredibly well, and you know, that could go on for a long, long time, and that doesn’t mean we should be okay with that. Be like oh, it’s just set up this way. Yeah, I have a line that I use a lot in my act, where I say it’s this corporate raping and pillaging of the world that we’ve all just accepted, like it’s a Black Eyed Peas song, you know, we’re like, well, been around for a while, I might as well pretend like I like it.

17:01 Um, and that’s what it feels like. You know, what’s your show? That, um, I think you just got crowdfunded for like 10 episodes or 14 episodes. Can you just talk about that? And then I, I was reading on your website about how you didn’t want to use crowdfunding at first.

17:15 Somebody said that, like, Kickstarter was just like a technological way of bumming people for money, but it isn’t, is it? No, I, I think it’s people. You know, it’s similar. It’s not that different from someone putting out an album. The album’s successful, and they now have the money to make another album.

17:31 I mean, what’s the difference? People bought the album, and it funded the next album. It’s, it’s people getting together and saying, we want this thing to happen, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I mean, I don’t like having to. I didn’t like having to make a video that said, hey, please donate your hard-earned money to make this thing happen.

17:51 But, uh, two things made me okay with it. Uh, one was that I’ve so far tried to have no advertising on anything, and succeeded so far. Um, and hopefully we’ll continue to be able to go down that path. I, I believe that advertising, you know, if you, it’s not that every ad is bad, but often you end up. I think we don’t appreciate the effects of it long term, and what it does to our psyche, to have this s*** constantly sold to us, and so I don’t love it.

18:24 I certainly understand that it’s a lot of the way the system is set up, so it doesn’t mean that, you know, I still have to say on Twitter, hey, everybody follow my Twitter account, like, it’s the way the world is set up. But it’s tricky. It’s really tricky. So I’d rather have people donate $5 and make the show happen than, I’ve got to cover it in ads. So I, I think that was a big part of it.

18:45 And, uh, so would you do, like, a Mazda commercial in the middle of your act, or what would you do in, sorry, in the middle of what? In the middle of your act? Or, yeah, yeah. No, I do a lot of product placement. I, it’s a little bit awkward, because I have to drink seven different beers during the act.

18:58 I just have them lined up. I’m sure that’s, I’m sure that has everything to do with advertising. Have you been approached by, like, any corporates? No? Okay.

19:07 I think they see my act, and they’re like, it’s weird now, because, like, on podcasts nowadays you expect the ads. Maron, we were talking about earlier, man. Maron puts three ads into his podcast. He’s shameless. He just, bam, bam, bam, and the talking ads are even tougher to deal with because you’re listening to the guy you want to hear talk.

19:27 Yeah. Hence the trick. Hence the, yeah, yeah, exactly. And when they’re scri, it’s one to IGN, but when they’re actually talking, like, about it, it’s tricky. And so, like, Maron did the three.

19:35 Now every podcast has a bunch of ads, and you kind of accept it. And, um, I know it’s tricky. Between that, when I first started London Real, people were like, yeah, crowdsource it, crowdsource it, and I was like, I’m trying to make this a sustainable thing so I don’t have to keep asking people for money to do something. But there’s that too, but it’s tough, because we have a sponsor. We have a sponsor called Xbrain.

19:54 Now there, I go. But these days I’m trying to mix it in, and it’s, it’s hard. It’s hard not to make it affect the show. We do it as a pre-roll, and then you have an hour and a half of nothing else. But I, I feel you.

20:06 Yeah, I haven’t figured it out yet, and you know, the even uglier thing is when people take ads, and you know, one of them, I work with, who I’ll remain nameless but for now, but they take ads for things that they violently disagree with, but they’re like, you know, they the general excuse is, well, we’re using their money for good. Well, yeah, but you’re also pushing their product on all the people watching your stuff. And, you know, I think everyone thinks they’re smart enough to not be affected by all the stuff, but of course we all are, or they wouldn’t be doing it.

20:39 So, yeah, it’s tricky. I mean, we’ve tried to choose, because if you look where the ad money is, it’s like, you know, alcohol and alcopops, and energy drinks, and it’s like all this s***. You can’t really have a conscious pushing. I don’t know. It’s, it’s very tricky now.

20:52 On the other hand, I have no qualms about, like, people email me and say, uh, you know, here’s my activism music. You want to use it on your podcast? And I will throw it on the end and say, hey, this guy’s doing cool music, check it out. Like, ’cause I’m not getting any money from it, and I’m just, I, I think promoting this person is also making art. Is, I have no problem with that.

21:09 And I had a, I had a comedian yell at me, ’cause he, you know, I think he views himself as more pure, but, uh, for, for not yell at me, but getting a debate with me, because I was selling my CD, you know, my live comedy album at the end of the show, and I’m like, well, that’s what I like, that’s my art, and I’m selling it to sustain my art, and it’s like I have no problem with that. You got flack for that? Yeah, he’s a bit of a nutter. Okay, what, what is Moment of Clarity?

21:38 Uh, so the, the Moment of Clarity is, is started as, as these three to six minute rants straight to camera on YouTube, and, uh, you know, has, has gained some good popularity, luckily, and I’ve been doing it for like 235 episodes now. You don’t pull any punches on these things, yeah? No, I go after people. You go right after everything. Get good, there’s, there’s a biting message.

22:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. The f***ing corporate greed monkeys. Uh, there’s no fluff in there. There’s no fluff. I didn’t find any, actually.

22:12 At the beginning, beginning of one of them, I go, okay, it’s about time to stop blowing smoke up each other’s asses and fluffing each other’s fluffer utter sandwiches. But, uh, so, but that’s now grown into the thing you just talked about, uh, which we were able to get, uh, Kickstarter funding for, uh, which is this. It’s a longer, it’s, it’s about 15 to 20 minutes long, and it’s full color, and it’s got production value, and it has animation in it, and it does start off with the same rant.

22:40 So it’s a three minute rant, but then we have a whole episode kind of about that same topic. Uh, I interviewed Roseanne Barr on the last one, and another interview with Peter Joseph is coming up. Um, and so then there’s an interview at the end, and and it’s just kind of, it’s like the, it’s like the TV show I would like to see. It’s only on the web right now, but it’s the TV show I would like to see, if, if that kind of, you know, anti-corporate message were allowed on television.

23:02 Do you want to be on TV? It’s a, it’s weird if I were allowed to say what I want to say? I, I wouldn’t mind that. Like, yeah. So, no, then, yeah, so no.

23:11 Uh, I mean, you know, if HBO let me, let me say, because HBO, there’s only a couple places you could do it, HBO, Showtime, something. But yeah, I feel if I were allowed to say what I want to say, so in the meantime it’ll be web-based. Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with that. No, I mean, Ricky J is doing something purely on the web now. See, but that’s not fair.

23:29 What do you mean it’s not fair? They could have a TV show on any network, and they’re taking our medium, Crow space, selling, saying f*** you to the TV people, and saying I’m going to do my own thing. And yeah, and meanwhile making a TV show. I’m sure he’s got other TV shows in the works. Actually, Miles is doing the J’s Channel right now.

23:47 He said he wanted to be on on the web because he’s not censored. He’s like, I can do anything I want whenever I want. He’s bringing back David Brent from the office I saw that. He’s giving guitar lessons. Is he one of your heroes?

23:58 Did he inspire you at all, or what? no hero. I don’t know. I mean, every, I feel like every comedian has an inspiration, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:07 Uh, I I do like The Office, and I think the original Office is better than the American. The American one’s not bad right? That’s a controversial viewpoint. It’s gotten worse over time. The American one, one is more cringeworthy, right?

24:17 Got tired. Yeah, yeah. The old one’s more cringeworthy. The British one was just two seasons, for three. It was really short, two season so, like, then the American one’s like eight now, right?

24:27 I think 11 or something. Jesus, you’re shooting low. Okay, just, it’s weird, ’cause we’re both, we’re both Americans, but we don’t live in America, so, like, I, I, well, I, I do want to hear about your influences, but after that, I want you to tell us what’s going on in America. Is anybody like this? Isn’t London Real?

24:41 They, brother, Amica. Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. It’s very sub. Have you gotten some of that?

24:45 No one says it, but it definitely bothers them. What’s going on here? Yeah, it’s weird. But, no, what your influen is first, and then I want you to tell us what’s going on. F***ing immigrants always coming in.

24:54 It is, it’s always taking our podcast jobs, taking our damn podcast, taking our own paying podcast jobs. So, influences, uh, well, earliest ones were, you know, I started. I just, you know, I was 12. I wanted to be a humor writer, and so it was, uh, you know. And I was clean when I started doing standup, in like, 19 years old.

25:15 It was mainly clean comedy and observational. So influences were, you know, more like Jerry Seinfeld and that kind of thing. But then it, it quickly kind of grew to, you know, I got into Chris Rock and Carlin and Hicks, and, uh, you know, Stanhope and all these great guys doing amazing stuff that kind of pushes the audience a little farther and makes people think, and makes people, at times, cringe, and, uh, and it, yeah, it, it was, I think it was important, though, to start off doing comedy where I just kind of spent years learning how to make people laugh, like, from a stage.

25:51 Um, I think that it’s tougher if you start off as a comedian who’s just like, I’ve stepped on a stage and now I’m going to make you doubt everything you believe in. Like, ’cause there’s not that period of just like, oh, here’s how you do traditional standup. But I think then, I, you know, I’m very glad I grew into something else. Is are you dirty now, or a little dirty, or completely not dirty? Uh, yeah, it’s pretty filthy.

26:15 I mean, it’s, it’s all about politics, and about, you know, the world, the state of the world, and everything. So it’s all cultural commentary and politics, and that kind of, you know, war. I, I spent 15 minutes talking about the, you know, war and and our rights being taken away for the war on terror, and that kind of thing. But I, you know, how do you make funny? It’s got, it’s got all, I’ll make it funny.

26:37 You show up tonight and I’ll show you how you make it funny. Uh, done. I, I don’t know. I’d say about 80% of the time I succeed, and then 20% of the time the audience goes, that’s pretty good odds. Yeah, that’s good, odds.

26:52 Do you do like a new hour every year? And like, that’s all I hear the comedians talk about, like, Louis CK. I do this new hour every year. Do you do that, or do you do new material every such and such? Well, it’s, it’s not a new hour, I, I do a lot of new material, and some of the guys at the comedy clubs in New York like make fun of how I’m constantly doing new material.

27:12 Uh, but I don’t, it’s not like a new hour. It’s not like, here’s the hour, and now start on the new hour. I think that you start to see that more when you get to the level in terms of popularity of Louis or George Carlin. It’s like he put out an HBO special special, and now if he keeps touring with the old, people are like, heard it. So, um, I, I definitely am always changing it, but it’s not like every word is new, a new hour, but it could, it’s becoming more and more like that because, like, I’m, I just did this UK tour, which ends tonight, and then I’m going to probably do another one in next March or something, and you’ll have a lot of the same, you know, fans coming out, so I, it’s going to have to be mostly new.

27:51 Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I do, I do plow through a lot of material. and obviously, like, the Moment of Clarity videos on YouTube, are they’re essentially standup. I mean, they, I can, I can spend more time being serious and, and not think there has to be a punch line this every second but they’re essentially standup, so, so essentially I’m putting out, you know, nine new minutes of material a week, so yeah, and plus if you’re commenting on what’s going on in the world, there’s always tons of material.

28:18 It’s endless. I, I actually did go through a period where I’d done about, probably, uh, you know, 50 of them, and I was like, am I going to run out of things to say? And then I’ve got, like, just a list of the raping of the world, and I’m like, oh no, not at all. What, um, what are you doing in the UK? ‘Cause not that many comedians come through here.

28:36 I mean, they do, but it’s like, it seems like 10% or 15%. It doesn’t seem to be a normal circuit. Do you have demand here? You must. Yeah, I mean, some of my biggest fans are over here, like the PE, you know, I have fans in the US, definitely, and people will still drive.

28:50 I’m always amazed when people drive like two hours to come to a show. Uh, but, um, but the fans over here, they’ve often been the ones that are like, uh, I love what you’re doing, and can I build your website for free, or can I, they’re like can I, you know, do your graphics for you for free? Like, they just like want to be part of of it, which is just really cool, uh, to see. And so, yeah, there are fans over here, and I’m surprised, because so much of my stuff, it definitely all relates back to the United States, but I, you know, I guess everyone kind of knows that the United States is, is still this, you know, massive power, and that, you know, still has this kind of ridiculous Empire.

29:30 So American politics influences everyone. I mean, I feel like the audiences over here know more about American politics than a lot of audiences in the US. That’s probably true. I mean, you know, if you, if it’s your country all the time and you’re directing it at the people, then maybe they subconsciously tune out some of it just to live there. I don’t know.

29:48 Yeah, maybe. But I, I think the UK fans are loyal, and if you come over here, they’re going to, they’ll probably go out of their way to see you. Yeah, it’s, it’s been really cool. One, one girl was, she was missing in our Dublin show, so she flew from Dublin to Glasgow to see the show. Wow, dedicated.

30:04 Yeah, that’s very impressive. What is, um, what’s Peter doing with Culture and Decline? Was it a, was it a one-man live show in New York? No, that’s how Zeitgeist started. That’s how, like, I started.

30:15 Okay, and then this is a, is a web series, or yeah, this is just a web series he’s done. I guess five half hour, and, and pretty well produced, kind of impressive things. Uh, and I don’t know, I think I think it’s, it’s hitting all the same topics as the Zeitgeist films, but I think there’s definitely a kind of a comedy element through the whole Culture and Decline half hour. So through the whole half hour is a comedy element. I, I did one segment for him, but, uh, yeah, I, I think he just decided, like, okay, I’ve done the Zeitgeist movies, and that got to a lot of people, and obviously it’s going to be a lot of the same fans, but maybe I’ll attract a whole new demographic by making it funny.

30:53 How do you know all these people? Like you said, you interviewed Roseanne and you know Peter, and, like, how how do you know all these people? I don’t know. Do they just love you? I don’t, I mean, yeah, some, something about these circles.

31:06 I mean, it’s a combination of activism circles, you know, being involved with Occupy Wall Street, you know, from the first night, and that kind of thing. So I’ve gotten involved with the, I’m actually now on the, uh, Green Party’s shadow cabinet for the, for the US government. They created, you know, CU, they’re not in power, so they created a, a fake cabinet, and I’m the commissioner of comedic arts. They asked me to be that. They do that shadow government over here.

31:30 Cool idea. So, so, yeah, being involved in the political circles, and then the comedy circles, and then the, and then the, uh, you know, activism. Uh, I guess I just kind of meet him through that. Um, the Roseanne, I was on Paul Provenza’s Green Room, which was a Showtime show, and he wanted me to, to read my hate mail after the Fox News moment. Uh, so I was on for that, and Rosanne started a standing ovation for me after they played the clip, so I met her through that.

31:58 It was all the comedians in the room, and hanging out on the stage. Yeah, yeah, my episode was, uh, Patrice O’Neal, Bob Saget, Roseanne, uh, Sandra Bernhard, and Paul Provenza were sitting around the couches, and then I was sitting off to the side. Is that all live, or did they just clip up parts of it? No, not live. Yeah, they probably taped an hour and cut it down to a half hour or something.

32:18 Uh, yeah, not live, but, uh, but I, you know, it’s sad they canceled it, ’cause I, I’m sure there’s a DVD box set out there somewhere, but they did two seasons, and they were really brilliant. Yeah. You were talking earlier about cross talk with comedians, like, I know, uh, Rogan did the Ice House Chronicles for a while, and there was, like, eight microphones in the back of the Ice House, and everyone would just talk when they’re not in set, and sometimes you’re trying to listen to each comedian get their word in and it’s just like, oh, Jesus, it’s just really hard.

32:44 Is that like a natural comedic thing, or some, or some comedians? Cool. Well, there’s, oh, some, no, not all comedians are into it. You know, like, actually, I remember, uh, you know, my, one of my favorite people, JY Graal, was on, uh, one of the Showtime episodes, and she’s just not really into the whole, like, comedian, you know, hitting each other back kind of thing, and so she kind of sat there quietly and probably said a word, and then afterwards I was like, I was like, you know, had you, did you enjoy it?

33:14 And she was like, that was brutal. She just, like, didn’t enjoy it. You know, not all comedians are like that, there you know, but there are a lot. There’s definitely a comedian, I don’t know, thing where it’s you sit around a table and bash each other, and, uh, try one up each other, and sometimes it’s fun, sometimes it’s miserable. Do you hang out with comedians, or do you have comedian friends?

33:34 Or, uh, yes, I do have a few, but I, I think I’ve been, I think I’ve been more of a lone wolf than some comedians. I, I, there, there’s definitely a lot of comedians that have, like, the comedian poker game they all get together for, and I’ve never, I don’t know, I don’t know why. I scare away too many people. But I took a comedy course like three years ago, yeah, and it was like a, to, and the ultimate goal was to do five minutes, and some people hate on that.

33:59 Um, not to mention Mark again, but he says, like, comedy courses are horrible, you just got to get on stage. But for me it actually really helped, ’cause every week I got slowly more comfortable, and more comfortable, and you, and when you go up in front of 12 people in this class you’ve never met before, it’s basically a cross-section of what your audience is going to be, and if they don’t think it’s funny, then you’re not funny. Well, I, so I understand both sides of it.

34:20 My view is that if you’ve truly never done comedy before, and you’re just looking for the bare bones of like, ’cause there are the, there are things you should know, like, you know, move the mic stand out of the way, hold the mic like this, you know? Like, people, people might, you know, if a heckler yells out, didn’t deal with it or whatever. There are some bare bones, but I think that what a lot of us as comedians hate about it is the, I is, is that a lot of it is just taking people’s money, because they’re like, oh, we’ll make you into a comedian, and they can’t really make you into a comedian.

34:52 They’re just like, give us $1,000, um, and then the the other aspect is, is as long as they’re not selling it as, we can train anyone to be a comedian, ’cause I don’t think anyone can be a comedian. I do think that people get better at being comedians as time goes on, but I don’t think it’s something that anybody can do. I think you have to be, you have to have some sort of sense of humor going in, and I think that a lot of people, a lot of these classes are sold as, like, you can be a comedian, just give us $1,000.

35:19 But there’s definitely a science to it, right? I mean, it’s not like I’m just a funny guy, I’m going to make funny jokes, and people are going to like them. What is your process? Two parts, part jokes, seven parts. No, but there, there’s, I think there’s a process.

35:31 I have a friend who’s is also trying to be a comedian in San Francisco, and, and he’s just going and going, and sometimes his delivery is a little off, and his transitions are wrong. So, like, how do you, how do you learn that? I, I, I mean, like, do, how many bad, how many bad sets do you have to go through before you’re like, okay, I think I know how long to let people, like, absorb that joke before I go on to the next one, or something like that, or when not to say that joke.

35:57 You have to go, how many Christians are, do they need to be in the crowd before you cut out all the Christian Jes? You have to go through 112 bad sets, got, unless you’re not gay or Jewish, then it’s 123 sets. Let me write that down. Hold on a second. It’s, I, I mean, well, it it, it all depends on what you’re going for, and and where you, where you want to end up, and you know a lot of it, you, a lot of it, you learn by doing.

36:23 I, I think I learned by a combination of doing it, and uh, reading all my favorite comedians, like, any, any, or watching them, you know, watching them on TV, and and that’s the other thing that I think bugs a lot of comics about these comedy classes. I think you could probably get as much or more from watching your favorite comedians on stage, um, than you could get from someone trying to put it down in a syllabus. But yeah, it’s such a, it’s, I actually think it’s the opposite of a science, not that there aren’t things that should be done or shouldn’t be done, but I think that anyone who tells you there’s a one-way path, or a one-way do-way to do it, is is lying.

37:01 Like, there, people have got gotten to it from a million different ways. Some people wanted to be actors, and they ended up being character comedians. Some people, you know, uh, were just class clowns, and they go up there and they just talk to the audience, and they’re funny people, and then some people have things they really want to talk about, like I do, about, you know, world issues, and it’s, comedy can go a lot of different ways. And, you know, Mitch Hedberg used to have a joke about how people think that a comedian can do anything involving comedy.

37:28 He goes, he said something like, uh, like, you know, now that I’m a comedian I’ll get meetings where people are like, oh, you’re a comedian, write a movie script. And he’s like, that’s like saying to a farmer, oh, you’re a farmer, cook me a meal, like, cook me a five-star meal. You know, it’s like different animals, and I’m sure a script writer, a full-time screenplay writer, would say to you, you know what, you’re a comedian, that doesn’t mean you’re a screenplay writer.

37:52 Um, so I think that there’s, there’s a lot of different types of comedians out there, and doing a lot of different things, and there’s a lot of different paths to get there. You know, if you want to be touring, uh, if you, if you just want to get on late-night shows, then keep your act clean and set it up in this kind of type of comedy that isn’t ranty and has a very clear punch line, ’cause on late-night shows, that’s what they want. They want you to say your punch line and then stand there and wait for the crowd to laugh, and then go onto the next one, whereas my stuff has always been like too ranty, you know?

38:25 I’m not saying no late-night show will ever have me on, but I think that it’s not generally the brand they want to see. Did you ever think about quitting? No, no, I’ve never thought about quitting. Um, I have had times where it’s kind of like, what am I doing here? Like, you know, how do, how do I make this work?

38:48 How’s it, you know, I’m, yeah, I’m making it at times, either I was making money from something I wasn’t enjoying doing. Like, I, I stopped enjoying touring colleges, because it wasn’t the type of material I wanted to be doing, but that’s where my money was coming from, so it’s like, well, now I’m doing something I’m not enjoying anymore. Um, and then I had other times where I’m like, where’s the money going to come from? There’s, there’s no money in this.

39:08 How many years did it take you till you could do it for a living, like a full-time job? I, kind of, a combination of hard work and getting very lucky. I was, I was full-time only a year and a half after finishing college, so, and so I’d only been doing standup at all for five years or something, uh, but yeah, I, I was making my living largely from tan colleges, which was a huge kind of lucky break combined with combined with being ready. I mean, I think it’s with, as with any job, it’s like, you, you’re, it’s a lucky break, with having the talent.

39:42 Once that break’s given to you, right? Like, I was, I just got incredibly lucky that I was put on this showcase, uh, for college bookers. Um, just, you know, I was an alternate, and I showed up just to, like, check it out, and then an hour beforehand they’re like, oh, the person canceled, which they never do, because there’s too much money at stake, so no one ever cancels, and they’re like, oh, they canceled, you’re on in, you know, half an hour, and I had a good set.

40:05 Like, I, I knew what I was. You have a different act. Was it same, same, like, was it a political act still, or no? No, no, this was before I got much into politics. So it was observational, and also, you know, it helped that I was 24, and the college kids are 20, and so I was close enough in age.

40:20 Um, yeah, so what’s going on in the US? I mean, like, every time I call my dad in California, I ask him his simple question, like that. I’m like, Dad, what are people really talking about? ‘Cause I can’t tell from the news or anything. Do they really give a s*** about this?

40:33 Do they really give a s*** about who’s President? And so, you know, you used to live in Texas, and you went to school myyu, but [expletive] C, what is going on? If you could give us just a quick, they do give a s***, and they give an immense s*** about who’s President, and they’re wrong. Okay, that’s what it is. I might agree with that.

40:49 I, I, you know, look, I, the first time around, and people can call me dumb, but the first time Obama was running, I fought for him to win, because I felt that of the two choices he was far better, and I still believe it was actually a big step for, for the way the, the way African-Americans have been treated in America, and I think it was still a big step in that way, but, uh, proving he can be a corporate [expletive] too showed that black people can do anything. But I think the two main parties that we fight tooth and nail for are, so there’s so much money in it, and they’re so corporatized, that, yes, there’s a good seed here and there. You know, there is a there is a Bernie Sanders here and there, that’s like a great politician, but in general, you, you are, they’re similar on so many issues.

41:41 You know, Obama, if he surrounds himself with Goldman Sachs and he’s for Wall Street running wild, and more drone attacks than ever before, and more crackdown on rights, going after whistleblowers more than any other president, and it’s not because he’s somehow evil. It’s because the two-party system is just owned by the, by the power elite, the richest you know, not even 1%. We’re talking .1%. And, uh, and so I, and we fight so much over that, and the sad thing is, I don’t, I think that in the most important issues it largely doesn’t matter, and a good example of this, that I felt like this was a moment you could just point at it and say, exactly, was, uh background checks after Sandy Hook, background checks for assault rifles, and just to pass that bill, not, not, we’re taking away anybody’s guns, just saying background checks.

42:30 And here’s the key: it was so popular with Americans, they did surveys, it was more popular with Americans than kittens, literally, than kittens. 90% of America supported background checks. The only thing it lost out to on their survey was ice cream. All right, more popular than kittens, and which I’m actually excited about, because those f***ing kittens they’ve been up on their high horse for too long. You know, every video, every video they post gets a billion hits nothing but a pretty face.

42:58 Attention whores, seriously. But, and it, and it, it didn’t, it didn’t get through, it didn’t pass, because these, the, these politicians no longer represent people in the slightest. I think some of them just came out and they’re like, this isn’t going to pass. We know that the American public wants it, but you’re not getting it by me. And then a few guys are like, I can’t support it either.

43:16 I’m not going to get reelected. I thought when it came to the Congress or the Senate, some guys were just like, this isn’t going to happen. So, you know, yeah, they got a majority. They got a majority in the vote, and they still, they still failed to pass it. Yeah, there was a threat of a filibuster.

43:30 So, yeah, it’s ridiculous. But, yeah, the rest of the world looks on to America and goes, these people are f***ing crazy. That’s why you’re asking the question. Is it right? Do people think they’re crazy?

43:40 But they’re they’re thinking. I even, even, like, right here in the UK, like, those guys are idiots. Oh, for not passing such a simple thing when you have shootings every other week. You know, listen, just ’cause a couple people post Facebook photos doing Heil Hitler stances doesn’t mean they’re bad. Is this something in UK we’re referring to with the UKIP, that all the Nazi photos came out?

44:05 Yeah, I don’t know. There’s a strain of frustration in politics over here as well. Oh, that’s true, right? Yes. That probably stems more from the economic situation than from anything else.

44:15 You know, I don’t know. Somebody just said recently, I’m trying to remember who I was listening to, that, like, guns are such a, a cultural part of America that it’s just going to be hard to grab them out of people’s hands. And, like, I’ve got a girlfriend who’s from Bulgaria, and we went to Arizona, and I’m hanging out with my aunt and uncle, and they’re like, we have a gun in the house, and yes, we think you should carry it when you go out for dinner.

44:33 And she was just like, what the f*** are you talking about? And then they were just like, what are you talking about? Well, let’s take a step back from the carry it out to dinner, but in terms of the, you’re right, in terms of, are Americans always going to have guns? Yeah, and no one’s ever talked about taking away handguns or rifles for hunting. No one’s even ever mentioned that.

45:00 All the, really, the argument is about is automatic, full-on weapons of war, like that’s, that’s what the, and you know, it’s stupid, because they try, and I think the people that want the guns and want all possibility of guns say, oh, they’re going to take our guns. No one has ever even floated the idea of taking away handguns or hunting rifles or anything like that. It’s only about, the debate is only about, you know, it’s shades are gray, and everyone wants to make it black or white.

45:28 Either we get all the guns or we get no guns. Those are the options, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, what’s up for you in this, like, next year? Is it all about getting the series done?

45:36 Do you always stay active touring? I mean, are you always on stage once every couple weeks? Oh, more than, you know, I’m on stage almost every night. Uh, really? Did you, as a comedian, do you have to be up there every week, or do you get rusty?

45:50 I, I feel that way. Uh, not all comedians feel that way, um, but I feel that, that my stuff definitely suffers. It’s, it’s like riding a bike, in the sense that once you become a pro comic, you’re always going to be able to get some laughs, and you’re, it’s not like you’re going to go up and bomb, but it’s, I, I just don’t feel like I’m at 100% if I haven’t been up, you know, if, if it goes four days without. I, I can’t remember the last time I’ve gone four days without performing.

46:17 It’s incredibly unusual. Uh, so, you know, and when I’m in New York, I’m running around to the clubs, so I, I do at least five or seven or 10 spots a week. But how is New York, by the way? I, in that interview with Peter, he’s like, I can’t handle it anymore. 14 years, and like I was there for four years, and when I went visited recently, I was like, f*** this.

46:35 I can’t deal with this. It’s just like, I don’t know, I’m getting old. It was just like all the taxis and all the [expletive] and I was like, it’s exciting, but I couldn’t live there, and Paul misses New York so much, so it’s my home. Do you like it? How long you been there?

46:47 First of all, 10 years, and I, I like it. I probably, if it weren’t for comedy, I probably wouldn’t live there. Um, ’cause it does become too much, but also, I only lived in Manhattan for two years of these 10, and living in Manhattan is kind of insane. Like, that’ll drive you nuts, because it, it’s like you can’t, you can’t even go to sleep without just car horns, and you just feel like you’re in this cement jungle you can never get out of, and it’s all a mall now, too.

47:16 It’s like everywhere’s a mall, right? Like, Times Square is a mall, and, oh, yeah, yeah, just even, like, Avenue A. I’m not Houston Street is a mall. Why are we talking about Times Square as if that’s anything to do with New York? Yeah, come on.

47:26 True. Do you know, I tell people that 30 years ago in Times Square, it was all peep shows and prostitutes, and they’re like, what are you talking about? It was shady. It was Slim Shady. So if it wasn’t for comedy, you would live somewhere like in the suburbs, or you would live, you know, Brooklyn, or somewhere.

47:44 I’d live, I don’t know, somewhere cool, like Seattle, or, you know, some, I don’t know, Vancouver is gorgeous. I would live somewhere with more green. What about LA? Can you handle LA? I f***ing hate LA.

47:58 Yeah, I could tell from the interview. LA is more soulless than New York by far. Oh, yeah, no one would argue with that. LA, making friends and influencing people. There we go.

48:07 You know, I, you know, there are, there are, I’ve realized that LA is okay. Like, I can handle it for a week if I’m meeting up with really cool people, ’cause actually I probably have more kind of close friends in LA than I do in New York, and I don’t know why that is. But there’s, so there’s tons of cool people in LA, but so if you’re meeting up with the cool people You can deal with LA, but otherwise it’s, it’s weird, because more people agree with, like, my politics, I’d say, out in LA than they do in New York or most of the country, but they agree in an apathetic kind of way.

48:42 So it’s, it’s like, oh yeah, we agree, so let’s just not talk about it anymore. Right? We all agree, it’s, it’s done, right? Whereas I want, like, if you agree, then f***ing throw something, right? As your shirt says, burn f*** down.

48:55 Your shirt says, F*** politics, F*** politics. I just want to burn f*** ing down. And then, uh, Lee gave you a button. He didn’t give me one. Punch apathy in the dick.

49:05 Awesome. Wow, awesome. Do you want one? Um, is it like a touchy point now? You know, I’m trying to think if I get one, I better wear it, and we repres, right?

49:13 Yeah. We could sell it. The podcast as some kind of advertisement. What do you think? Yeah, oh, gosh, back to the ad dog.

49:19 Do is that one of your biggest frustrations? Is people who don’t do anything, who don’t stand up? Yeah, I’m not saying everybody needs to be out on the you know, the video I just did, uh, for Moment of Clarity, the series, the one yesterday. It was called A Million Revolutions, and it’s about how each decision we make each day is a little bit of a fight, you know? And plastic bags.

49:39 Well, I mentioned plastic bags. God, I was looking, you know, I hadn’t. I only looked up the numbers right as I was getting ready to do it, and I was like, was America uses a billion plastic bags? Like, it’s just maybe, maybe it’s 100 billion. I don’t, it was, it was absolutely.

49:55 It must, it actually was definitely a billion. It was definitely 100 billion, because there’s 300 million people, and apparently a family over 4 weeks uses, on average, 60 plastic bags. Yeah. And there’s 300 million people, so 100 billion plastic. Like, it’s just mindblowing.

50:11 Um, and so it was about a million decisions we make on a daily basis, and so that bugs me more that people don’t stand up in that way. Like, I understand not everybody’s going to be down at Occupy. Not everybody wants to be pepper-sprayed. It’s an acquired taste. It is, and you got to get used to it.

50:28 But not everybody’s wanting to get threatened with arrest, uh, or sometimes beaten for tweeting something a cop does. But I, so I understand that, and people have jobs and they got to work, and, you know, the people that are truly struggling can’t, don’t have time to be down at Occupy or wherever, whatever protest. Um, but it’s those daily things. It’s like, it’s like, don’t, don’t just, like, don’t tell me who cares. Like, at least care.

50:53 What’s it going to take to change it, though? ‘Cause every time you do go to work, you’re, you’re in a way supporting the system that’s already in place. Every time that you use the currency, for example. I don’t know, like it seems like for every Mo action that we can do to to rebel against the, the um the established problem? Yeah, we do a 100 actions that support it.

51:12 Yeah, I mean, it is the system we live in. Um, and I, what, if anything, can go, can, can happen? I mean, my, my, my opinion is that it has to be organic. It’s just like, the, um, the like, the unsustainable path will collapse and everybody be miserable, and that’s the way we solve it. Not our own actions.

51:33 Do you know what I mean? Really, really pessimistic about this. So this goes with your earlier statement about about, clearly, the, the key is just to sit here until it all collapses, and then we go, who, it collapsed? But, um, insurmountable odds, right? Yeah.

51:47 But what about communication? I mean, like, everyone’s talking about these things, everyone’s being aware, everyone’s, people are doing things differently because of what they hear that people are doing. I think it always I think it always seems like insurmountable odds until it doesn’t. I think that every protest movement or example of people standing up you’ve ever seen that has worked, it seemed like or insurmountable odds, you know, from, I mean, like Egypt, from Gandhi to Martin Luther King, to yeah, the Arab Spring.

52:15 I mean, and you know, and people want to say, oh, yeah, things are going great over in Egypt. Well, that’s not the point. The point is you people stood up and ended 30 years of dictatorship. what happens afterwards is what happens afterwards. But, um, uh, so I think it always seems like insurmountable odds.

52:30 But also I’m, I’m a big fan of not making the great the enemy of the good, because I think people get, they, they, their energy is zapped by thinking, oh, well, I can’t change the world. You know, and yeah, no, nobody can change the world. It’s everybody’s got to change the world. So I, I think there’s a lot of that, and that’s where the, the small a comes in. What was, um, what was it like being at Occupy Wall Street?

52:54 And what do you think they did right, and what do you think they did wrong? First night, I was there first night. Jesus, that’s a, that’s, that’s an occupied badge of honor when occupied people get together. How did you, how were you there the first night? Is it just, like, was it all a big Twitter thing, or, I, actually, uh, so I’ll do you one better, actually, pre- first night.

53:16 Uh, one of the guys that’s given credit for, at least, the terminology and kind of putting out the call for Occupy is a blogger named David deGraw, and he, he’s largely, you know, someone could maybe debate me on this, but he’s largely given credit for the phrasing 99% and 1%. Um, he had emailed me seeing the Moment of Clarity, uh, stuff, and said, can you help me put out a call to move our money out of the big Banks and occupy Wall Street on June 14th? And so I did that video.

53:47 It’s still up. I think it’s called top 10 weights, top 10 ways to hit big Banks and the balls, or something like that. Um, and so I did that video, and then moved my money on June 14th, but the occupation wasn’t enough people. It was a very small number. Um, and then there are many other people.

54:05 It wasn’t just David deGraw, there are many other people that continued to push for it, and then got Adbusters magazine to come on board, and then it became this Twitter firestorm that started heating up, and that’s how I found out about it, on, like, the day of September 17th, and went down there. And what was it like? It was, I mean, it was amazing. It was, uh, the, you know, it was, uh, as Zizek said, the Year of Dreaming Dangerously. It was, it was incredible, because you know, people felt like things were changing, and people, all this apathy we’re talking about, and all this, uh, feeling of you, no one seems to care, and it’s insurmountable odds.

54:50 It felt like, you know, you go down there and they were like, it’s not, you know, people do care. People are here. People are, the people are understanding and getting it, and, uh, and I ended up touring about 12 different Occupies. I would, you know, I gave it, it was, it was comedy in my opinion, but it was kind of a cross between comedy and a political speech, and, uh, and you know, even, even up into Canada, uh, Ottawa, Occupy Ottawa, and, uh, and Montreal, and stuff, and just to see like everyone had a different flavor.

55:18 Everyone had different rules. Everyone had different, every different Occupy encampment had different types of people, but it was all the same idea. It was all the same idea, idea of, you know, 99% of us getting f***ed and we need to turn it around. And the reason I don’t feel it, it was a failure at all is because, I mean, there’s a bunch of reasons. One is I think that all these people were turned on by Occupy and the activism there.

55:41 The large majority of them are still active and are still online, and they’re still caring about these issues and fighting in different ways. Um, and I think that occupying in general was a tactic, and tactics have to change. They always change. Like, it, you can’t, obviously, the, the powers that be are going to knock the knees out from whatever tactic you come up with next, and then you got to keep changing and and doing different things. So I, I think that Occupy was a tactic, and now that tactics moved on, but that doesn’t mean that people standing up against, you know, the same, the same uh structure is is over, and also simply changing the debate in the country and in other countries in the world from austerity to what about this disparity of, you know, 99%.

56:29 That was a huge, huge shift. I mean, right before Occupy, there was a big discussion going on in the United States about austerity, and that discussion was wiped off the books for a year. So, at least that’s a good point. Did you go to the Occupy movements here? We had two separate ones.

56:44 We had one at St Paul’s. Uh, yeah, there’s one at St Paul’s, and there was one right by Finsbury Square, right across some Bloomberg offices. Really? Yeah, and I’d walk by every day, and then they occupied a UBS building, and I, I walked by one night, and, and the, these, uh, bankers that had a couple pints, and they walked over to this, this like building, they just squatted, they just went and took it over. It was crazy.

57:03 They had internet in there, and they were hanging out, and they couldn’t get kicked out. I mean, afterwards they boarded up. Um, well, the Occupy guys took over a UBS building that was like they were going to tear it Down, and once you’re in there, I think they can’t get you out, like a UK squatting law, so then the bankers came over, and they were like, just chatting, they’re like, so what do you really think? And I just kind of eased up, and I was listening to him just debating.

57:24 There’s some Occupy people and some bankers, and I mean, you know, to switch the suit from one guy to the other guy, they could have been, you know, the same guy. Fally, the people right, people, they’re, if it makes sense, people are going to agree on it, and they were having a discussion about it, but it seemed like, by, by definition, the Occupy Movement, it’s hard to sustain it month after month after month. It has to morph, right? Yeah, yeah, because people just get, I don’t know, they get expended, or they, they get tired of doing the same thing.

57:49 Yeah, and, and well, and I mean, you, that’s the other thing, is, is, you know, people love to make fun of any kind of entertainment at a protest, whether it be a drum circle or, you know, someone dancing or Frisbee or whatever. But it’s like, you’ve got to make protest and activism fun, and, you know, like, I’d like to think that’s what I do with comedy in a way, uh, because it’s really, people can’t just sit there and be serious and bored long, for months. Yeah, so I, I don’t, so I’ve never understood that argument, but it was funny.

58:22 They were actually debating, and I was just listening and listening, and then all of a sudden a whole, um, delivery full of Domino’s pizza showed up. It was like 12 guys walking with the Domino’s, like, come on, corporations. And they were like, uh, whatever, we got to eat. Yeah, no, yeah, that’s that’s the other argument. People, oh, you’re using your iPhone, so you want us to live like the Amish in order to fight the system?

58:43 Like, it’s totally stupid. Like, obviously, you got to, if you want to fight the way things are, you got to do it in the, you know, with the devices and technology that we own. Like, you talk about this two-part system, and like, I see it from over here, and like I just don’t see how it’s going to change. And I know we can change little things like the B, plastic bags and where we bank and where we buy our groceries and all that stuff, but do you see any way of this two-party system changing in the next 20 years?

59:09 The, the only way, I mean, well, okay, not the only way, ’cause I think that people are becoming more informed, but we’ll get to that in a minute. But, uh, I, in a, I kind of feel like it has to. You got to get money out of politics, and, you know, there’s a big push. A lot of a lot of people have kind of said that, you know, there’s not one issue for Occupy, but probably the mo- one of the most popular issues is getting money out of politics, because in the US there’s so much money in it.

59:37 Uh, you know, one of my favorite facts is that Sheldon Adelson, one guy, a casino magnate, spent more in January and February of the primary on Newt Gingrich’s campaign than the entire Labour Party spent over here on the 2010 general election. Over here. Yeah, he was just writing big checks to… he was like, 10 million, 20 million. He spent, he spent over $20 million in two months. Insane.

1:00:00 On some super PAC or something. Or, okay, so the funny is actually gotten worse with the super PACs. I mean, like, when, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there’s no accountability. And you know, supposedly the candidate’s not supposed to talk to the super PAC, but that’s f***ing… you know, you can, you can still kind of talk like uh, and yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s horrific. And, and people like to say, oh, well, you know, if a candidate’s really good, money doesn’t matter, the candidate with the most money wins like 90 or 95% of the time.

1:00:25 There needs to be a third option, which is the neither. I mean, forget third party, whatever, just the neither option. So they have a re- rerun the moment that fund, like, somebody funding an election, knows there’s a possibility that neither of the two people he funded can be elected, then maybe money will leave naturally. Well, yeah, but what would happen if neither won the election? You, you do a rerun.

1:00:48 You pick new people. You say, these people suck, get new people. Paul has very controversial ideas. I never heard this stuff before. This is Imperial, where I’m, I’m a student.

1:00:58 Um, how, how about the third option? Like a monkey, a monkey, that’s better. Sh, we got to get good people in. Otherwise, I didn’t know. Not a bad idea.

1:01:06 What is, um, what’s Fox News like in the states? Like, I haven’t even, I don’t know much of what it is or how much of a presence it is. I hear what people say. We don’t get it over here. I don’t watch it, you know?

1:01:19 It’s Murdoch-controlled. So is the Sun over here? Is it like that? Is it, well, if you took a pile of s*** and you vomited onto it, that’s what Fox News is like in the United States. There’s no, there’s no Cory here.

1:01:32 It’s got better or worse since your appearance? Some Fox, I think it’s got worse. They didn’t take your advice. No, he not. It’s not like what Murdoch owns over here, because there are, I don’t know what they are, somebody smarter than me probably does, but there are rules on what can be considered, like, a news channel over here.

1:01:48 And so there is Sky News, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch, but they have to have news, like they can’t just make s*** up. There are defamation laws here. Yeah, information law. Same, same with Canada. Apparently Fox News applied for to be a news channel in Canada, and they said you can be an entertainment network, can’t be a news channel.

1:02:05 Um, whereas in the US, I guess there are no laws, and in fact Congress, I got to look, look up the exact law, but Congress recently repealed, the voted to repeal the thing saying they can’t use propaganda on their own people, which is kind of amazing that there was even a law to begin with, but because it seems like that’s been going on for a while now. But, but uh, I love that they were like, yeah, that sounds good, let’s see, let’s get rid of that. Um, but anyway, yeah, no, F, and it’s the most popular.

1:02:30 Fox News is still the most popular, but okay, so here’s what I was going to say about more people getting involved. I think, I mean, uh, informed. I think that the internet is changing everything. I mean, the internet’s obviously responsible for, for Occupy and for the Arab Spring, and, or I mean, not responsible for it, but it couldn’t have happened without it. Um, and the indignados and WikiLeaks and all these things.

1:02:50 Um, and I think that we can’t, we’re in the middle of a global kind of change of consciousness that we can’t really understand, ’cause we’re in the middle of it. And of course, you know, the evil forces could win out if they succeed in cracking down on the internet enough, and in whatever, God knows what ways, you know, all the different bills they try and pass, you know, SOPA and ACTA and PIPA, and all these bills. But, um, right now people are becoming more informed because they’re, they’re not, they’re not solely getting their news from Fox News.

1:03:21 Uh, by the way, survey or study showing that people who only get their news from Fox News literally know less about what’s happening in the world than people who watch no news at all. Wow, which, that’s, that’s mind-blowing, that’s really incredible. You could sit in a dark room and know more than a Fox News viewer. I mean, well, it’s amazing they would even want to, because no one wants to watch a sports network that makes them dumber about sports. You know, if you show up to your pub and you’re like, yeah, the Lakers beat Tiger Woods.

1:03:50 Like, uh, how do, how do you consume your news? A, okay, I saw a tweet you said something like, I haven’t watched TV in three weeks and I know I haven’t missed anything. Yeah, yeah. So do you? Yeah.

1:04:04 So how do you, uh, I, well, I mean, part of that was because I’ve been on, because I’ve been on tour. I would, if I were at home and my normal schedule, I would watch Democracy Now. It’s a great, uh, news channel. They do an hour a day, which is one of the best news sources out there, and you can watch it online. So, uh, I guess if you count that as watching TV, I will watch that.

1:04:26 But, uh, a lot of it’s a lot of it’s, um, written. Yeah, I, I read a lot of, a lot of kind of outside news sources and, uh, you know, AlterNet and Truthout, and, uh, therealnews.com, and, and so there are, there are places. Uh, RT is good for some stuff. Okay, I always feel like if it’s really important, someone will tell me that I know and trust. They’ll be like, The Daily Show and the Colbert Report are the two in the US.

1:04:52 I, I, I download them here, but actually, those websites are blocked here in the UK, unfortunately. Yeah, they are, they really suck. Yeah, that’s where I get my news anyways. But yeah, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s great. There, a lot of young people are getting their news from that and not from Fox News, but, but at the same time, they’re, those two shows are still largely in the two-party paradigm.

1:05:12 I mean, I guess they do, they do hold Obama accountable for a lot of things. So yeah, what worries you most in the next, like, couple years? Is it like this, not this, sis, is it like this, uh, place in New Mexico that records every single email, like, in a big hard drive? Oh, Utah, Utah. Yeah, I mean, you’ve heard about this, right?

1:05:27 I don’t know the name of it. It’s the government-built largest information-gathering site in the world. They don’t actually, like, subpoena your info. They collect all the info, and then later, if they have cause, then they’ll go back and look at it. So collecting it technically isn’t, but they also don’t, they don’t, they also have algorithms that are kind of looking for patterns, for red…

1:05:47 Yeah. I don’t, I don’t think it’s just after the fact. I think they also are looking. I find this really hard to believe. They’re just so incompetent.

1:05:52 I can’t imagine this. Know, well, I think they’re getting a little, get the VA straight. They somehow they’re able to, to get this massive, massive database warehouse. Maybe they don’t care to get the VA straight. I think they’re going to employ you to do this someday.

1:06:04 Is that what you’re going to do, sort through massive amounts of data? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Find out, CRI. But what, what worries you most is it drone strikes?

1:06:11 Is it what is it in the next few years, or is there not one thing? I mean, if there’s, if there’s one thing that could, you know, interrupt the, the kind of movement we’re slowly seeing, I think it is a crackdown on internet freedom, and, uh, and a crackdown, continued crackdown on privacy. I mean, drones, drones, an unmanned and not a, not a, I mean, uh, unarmed drones just in the US skies. It’s just like, really, like, is that happening? Oh, yeah, is happening.

1:06:40 It’s already happening. Yeah, it’s already, they’re already over New York City and stuff, and it’s just like it’s trippy, really. Yeah, it’s just really sad to see. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s f***ing horrific, and and and the, you know, the indefinite detention of American citizens is really scary, because now you have activists and things. Is worrying that they could be locked away forever without charges.

1:06:58 The thing that Chris Hedges, journalist Chris Hedges, is, is fighting a lawsuit against the government right now on is, uh, basically says that journalists could be locked away or whatever, sent to GMO or something for providing material evidence. I mean, material help to a terrorist group. Now, that could consist of going over and interviewing Al-Qaeda, you know, which is something. You know, Chris Hedges was a Pulitzer Prize-winning war correspondent, but he’s like, you know, I’ve sat down and had discussions with groups that are on the terrorist watch list, and I don’t know whether I’m safe or not.

1:07:30 Like, it’s that kind of thing. It’s just, and you know, and to watch the Obama administration just fight this tooth and nail every court battle. Like, like, the defending. This is just, just sick. Yeah.

1:07:41 So those kind of things scare me, but I, I think at the end of the day, the biggest fear is that if we don’t act, like, you know, this planet won’t be livable. Fair enough. Do you think Obama actually believes in what he’s fighting for, or is it just the momentum of everything that’s supporting him, that he has to just go in and fight these fights? I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t know what he believes.

1:08:03 I mean, people want to tell me that, look, Obama can’t change everything, and it’s true, he can’t, but it’s the things he can do that you look at and you’re like, well, why did he has that power? So, for example, like, making all of his economists, you know, Goldman Sachs or Chase Bank, is like, well, if you really wanted to step outside this system, you wouldn’t, your advisers wouldn’t all be the people in that system. You know, if you wanted to, he’s got, you know, just going after whistleblowers more than any other president.

1:08:33 Like, if, if he was, if he believed in a, in a system where, you know, people could stand up and say, look at this horrible thing that’s going on, then he wouldn’t be doing that. So it’s, it’s those little things where you’re like, well, this, like, it can’t all just be the pressure on him. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Um, a very London Real question to ask you before we wrap. Um, if you can make a phone call to the 20-year-old Lee Camp and give him some advice, as opposed, and it can’t be, keep going, Lee.

1:09:00 Um, what would, what would it be? Uh, change the underwear after three rather than four days, ’cause rashes start, and it’s, it’s truly a mess. Um, I, I think, I think it would, it would be to wake up. It would be to wake up, because I don’t feel I really woke up until you know, 20, five or six or seven or something. It’s like, I, I was caring about some issues in the world, but I, it was focused on, you know, I was focused on comedy, and I, I didn’t really, I kind of, you know, I kind, I, I didn’t, yeah, I, I didn’t really understand how the, the American system and the American, uh, you know, hegemony, is, it was, was set up until I started reading, you know, you know, at age, you know, 24 and 25 and stuff.

1:09:47 So I really feel like I got my real education after college. Uh, you know, reading Chomsky and you know, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man and those kind of books that, that you’re like, holy s***, this is like, this is real. Like, this is really how it works. And all of a sudden, all these, me, and everything in the world telling you, yes, actually, that is how it works. Yeah, yeah.

1:10:06 And, and all these, all these news broadcasts that you think you’re getting news from, you kind of watch them and realize it’s just the same cycle of s*** paraded around. And, uh, so yeah, I, I would definitely tell myself to get to work early. You got some reading to do, son. Fair enough. And, and did you, had, like, did you have any, like, seminal breakthrough moment in your comedy career where you just, like, step-functioned up, where you just realized something, like, I’m not doing this enough, or I’m not relaxed enough, or I’m not this, where your comedy just went in leaps and bounds forward?

1:10:37 Yes. I decided to stop caring about the audience. Okay, I thought I was going to say I did stop doing meth. Jesus, that’s Agy. Okay.

1:10:47 Um, he said he cleaned the room when he did meth. I cleaned the whole f***ing room. No, I, I, I do. I do care about the audience, but it was important at that time. It was important for me to, I had this thought, like, you know, what, I, I am, I’m pausing after every line I say to wait and see what the audience reaction is and, you know, to give them a chance to laugh and everything, and I was like, I’m just going to go up there, and, you know, I’ve been doing comedy long enough that I at least mostly know it’s funny.

1:11:18 I’m just going to go up there, and I don’t give a f*** if, if you know, maybe 25% of the audience will will not know I’m talking about, and but, you know, I, I’m going to just go up there and do what I want to do, and I’m not going to sit there, and, and, and wait to see, you know, if it’s a dumb crowd. It’s a dumb crowd, and I just started doing that, and it doesn’t, you know, I still had to grow more from that. You know, it wasn’t like it was like immediately, oh, it’s so good, but, but it was a huge step because it allowed me to, to, to stop spending all my time thinking about, oh, well, you know, I had wanted to say this thing, but it’s not getting a good reaction, so now I’m going to stop saying it.

1:11:58 I’m going to cut that joke out, and instead it was like, you know, this needs to be said, whether it gets a great reaction or not. This is, this is what I’m, you know, they’re, they’re paying to come see what I want to talk about on stage, and I’m going to say what I want to talk about on stage, and, and that was a big moment for me. Was it that training yourself not to need that instant gratification, not to need that? Okay, they think I’m cool. Oh, they laughed at that.

1:12:19 Was it training yourself not to need that, or was it just training your brain not to care? Makes sense. Makes sense. I think, well, yeah, I guess I have to argue with the premise, because I know I still pathetically do need the, uh, the, the response. Like, it’s, we all do.

1:12:34 If I don’t, we don’t. We all need a hug. Don’t we all need a hug sometimes? Even the tough guys do. Uh, no, I, but I, I look, I I know I’m in this career because I constantly needed that.

1:12:44 The audience via laughter saying yeah. So I, I, I know I need that, but yeah, it was, but it was me. I don’t know. It was me telling myself not to worry about that as much, and, and you know, if I bomb, then I am going to think about it like, why, why did they, why did they hate every word I said? But, uh, but it was, yeah, it was a big, it was a big moment to even have that thought of, like, just, just stop, stop, because I think it’s easy as a comedian to head down a path, of the path of least resist, resistance, you know?

1:13:16 It’s, and that’s why you end up with so many comedians talking about the same material, and, and, you know, uh, women are going to talk about this, and male comedians are going to talk about about this, and it’s because it’s the path of least resistance, which is a very attractive thing in comedy, and that’s their audience that pays their bills, so they give them what they want. Is that the enjoyable part, where people appreciate? Or is it the point of getting the message out?

1:13:38 Like, what was enjoyable about comedy, other for us? It’s funny to laugh, but I mean, for I think, I think if people didn’t appre, if, if people didn’t show that appreciation. I wouldn’t feel I was getting a message out, ’cause if they, if they fully leave saying, oh, that was a s*** show, then I don’t think they’re getting any messages I’m sending. So it’s, it does have to be both. At the end of the day, they’ve got to say that was a good show, and I, I heard all these things I didn’t know.

1:14:01 So it, it does kind of have to be both, so I feel like I’m getting the message out if they enjoyed the show. That’s the point of it. For you, I mean, what, like, it’s not, it’s not always a glamorous life, you know? So why, why do comedians do what they do? Is it just for the, for the, for the appreciation?

1:14:19 For the, not a glam, glamorous, right? I have a backpack filled with peanut butter and pieces of bread, and I’ve been living off of it for two weeks. Awesome. So I, it is a glamorous, I slept on a couch with someone else’s dog the other night. So what do you mean, it’s not a glamorous?

1:14:36 I will not sit here. Well, you tell me, f*** him up, f*** him up. Uh, what? Uh, it, the laughter has always come first for me, and that’s not, that’s not, there are great comedians that the laughter didn’t come first. Maybe, um, the laughter has always come first, but a very close second is talking about these important issues, and if I were to lose the laughter, I wouldn’t, ’cause some people do ask me to give speeches, and I’ve given a few on, on activism and things, but I, I don’t enjoy it that much, and I don’t feel like, I feel like the, the talent I have is being funny about these issues.

1:15:16 It’s not just talking about these issues. There are people smarter than me on everything I’m talking about. There are people you should go to that have training in journalism, or training, and, you know, as, as economist or whatever. But it’s like my talent is, is being funny about these things. I feel like that’s the best, probably the, the one avenue that you can get.

1:15:34 Like, there’s a probably a core group of activists, a core group of people who get the message, but to get it outside of that group, probably takes comedy, imagine, or some, some avenue that people can relate to. Yeah, I actually don’t love, you know, and it’s a, it’s a double-edged sword, because I love having more fans, and having my audience be more, it’s increasingly becoming people that are very aware of stuff and want to be there, as opposed to just, oh, it’s a comedy night. But I actually don’t love, uh, fully preaching to the choir.

1:16:03 I, I love if half the room is like, every word I say is like, yeah, but you get sometimes a full room that’s all agreeing with every word you say, and you know, some of my biggest fans will sit there and like, laugh a little, but largely just be like, and like, I, I like, I hate, I, you, I want that edge of, of, you want that edge of, of certain percentage of the crowd being like, being like, I don’t know, but that was funny. Like, I, I don’t, wait, drone, how many drone, ATT, how many civilians died? Like, you, you want that kind of baffled, like, oh, but it’s funny too.

1:16:36 So I, I do, I do like that, which, uh, it’s, it’s you want to feel some tension in the air, a little. Yeah, yeah. You want that, that grit, that edge. You know, you don’t want the yes man. There, F in the place.

1:16:49 Do you, do you learn to, to love the road? I mean, as a comedian, I mean, Jesus, you guys are all the time on the road. I mean, that’s, that is your essence of your career, really? Yeah, yeah. Uh, I love a lot of it.

1:17:00 There are, there are times, actually, there were two days on this tour where, uh, you know, you get done with the set, you get done with it, do, perform an hour of comedy, and it’s not like you’re going to jump in a bed and go to sleep, so you, you then uh, you know, have 13, 14 beers, and before you know it, it’s time to get your flight, and, uh, and you know, so after like two hours, and I’m on a flight to Dublin on f***ing Ryanair, and I’m like, oh, I, I hate traveling, but, uh, luckily those, those moments are short-lived, and the, the good outweighs the bad. I think, like, I, I love meeting, I mean, you know, meeting people around the world, really, that, that care about these issues, and care about comedy, and care about live performance, and, you know, those are the best people in the world.

1:17:43 It must be nice to get out of America to be able to look at America kind of from the outside. I don’t know if you’re able to do that while you’re here? Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting, and, you know, people asked me if I would move here, and I was like, I feel like first of all, I feel like there’s a lot of promise in America that just nowadays isn’t being utilized, but I also feel like a lot of what I say is coming from, you know, I, I live in America, born and raised there, and I’m come over here to tell you about these things, you know, to tell you my opinion on these things.

1:18:15 Not, I have abandoned America, and I live here, and let me tell you how much America sucks, and that’s why I live here. I feel like there’s a diff, there’s a different little different tone. Yeah, yeah. Nobody likes that guy, you got to stay. Um, all right, well, um, we got to get you to a show.

1:18:31 Um, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks a lot. How do people get in touch with you? Your Twitter at Lee Camp, pretty simple, right? At Lee Camp, and LeeCamp.net, not LeeCamp.com, that’s a Korean porn site, or hold on a sec, it was, it was at the time, they’ve shut it down.

1:18:46 I, I have no idea what Lee can’t me in Korean, something creepy. Uh, so le.net, and then, uh, uh, yeah, Moment of Clarity is the web series. Anybody can search Moment of Clarity on, uh, on YouTube, and other than, I think, a Jay-Z video, you’ll probably find my stuff. Cool. So, uh, yeah, and then Lee Camp and Fox News.

1:19:06 You’ll find the Fox News clip. Yeah, yeah, I tweeted that out earlier. I’ll tweet it. Have you watched it? No.

1:19:10 I think I, I mean, in, like, yeah, they went straight to the girls of Star Trek after it was just a scripted. Awesome. That sounds like a classic. Well, that, that, I mean, that if there’s one amazing thing, it was like the, I mean, I guess they always have that s*** on, so maybe it wasn’t as rare as I thought thought, but that the fact that he was like, okay, okay, what do you mean Fox News isn’t good? And then it was like Star Trek bikinis.

1:19:31 Like, you couldn’t have scripted that. B, I, I was shocked, because I’ve seen, like, that’s like Italian television, where you get the coochie coochie girls and, like, a slick-back guy in the suit that looks like Uncle Creepy, and I was like, that’s America, where they put these. Ah, I’ve been gone too long. Um, and when is the new Moment of Clarity series going to be out? Does it take a while to film that stuff?

1:19:51 It does, but we’re kind of putting out segments as we go, so there, there’s no specific release date. We’ve already filmed some stuff, so hopefully that’ll come out soon. Um, do you need a bit more funding to get you to 14 episodes? I mean, Kickstarter, no, the Kickstarter is over. We made 37 grand, which is amazing.

1:20:10 Should fund us for a while with all the production, everything, and pay the editors and the cameramen. Um, but yeah, uh, uh, but yeah, it’s already out. If people go to the, uh, YouTube.com/MomentOfClarity show, uh, a lot of it is my direct-to- camera kind of ranting, but a lot of it is the episodes of The Moment of Clarity show. Cool. That animation could be really powerful stuff.

1:20:33 I know I want those to go viral, uh, ’cause I feel like they should be powerful. They haven’t. They haven’t. They haven’t hit yet. They haven’t hit yet.

1:20:40 Sometimes that takes time. I know. Yeah, I, I’ve seen some recently. There’s some place in the UK that, like, animates, like, Daniel Pink, um, talks, and, like, different, like, weird kind of alter economics things, and when you see it all animated, it’s, like, really, it’s compelling. Yeah.

1:20:54 What was the one about the I don’t know, the poor people and the rich people as over hundreds of years or whatever? Was it, guy, like a guy, like, writing on a whiteboard, that kind of thing? Okay, there’s some company. He was like, standing in the middle of the graphics, and they’re like, shooting around him. Jesus.

1:21:09 Um, all right, awesome. Paul G, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. Thanks for, uh, just being you. Thanks for getting out of banking.

1:21:16 I do, uh, thank you for being. Thanks for getting out of bank. The modaal, uh, guinea pig last month. So still alive. We might have you on for you for those guys.

1:21:35 Um, that’s it. If you’re listening on iTunes, please subscribe. If you want to see us on YouTube or at, um, Channel LondonReal TV, or on Twitter, you name it. If you want intern, send me an email, [email protected] we got like 15 interns all over the world. It’s crazy.

1:21:49 Aw, anyways, um, thanks so much. Thank you. All right, guys, take care. Welcome to London. You mentioned Amy Winehouse, and, um, could you just talk about her and how she died?

1:22:02 People might be surprised to know how she died, and how you said recently that you thought that was a lost opportunity. Yes. So, so Amy Winehouse, obviously everyone knows her. You’re a brilliant, brilliant talent. You used a lot of alcohol.

1:22:15 I’m not sure whether she Ed.