Jordan Belfort - The Wolf of Wall Street: Why Cryptocurrency is the Great Equaliser

Full transcript: Jordan Belfort on London Real

2:42 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Jordan Belfort, aka The Wolf of Wall Street, the former trader, author, business advisor and now crypto investor, defy enthusiast and NFT creator. Your best-selling autobiography, The Wolf of Wall Street, became a hugely successful Hollywood film starring Leonardo DiCaprio. As You, directed by Martin Scorsese. And grossing over 400 million dollars at the box office, the movie chronicles your meteoric rise to prominence.

3:09 As a Wall Street stock broker who one point employed a thousand people overseeing investments of more than a billion dollars. But ending with you pleading guilty to securities fraud and spending time in prison. Since your release, you have reinvented yourself as a motivational speaker, business coach, podcaster and entrepreneur. Most recently, you become an investor in the crypto space and the metaverse, while also releasing your own NFTS. You passionately believe cryptocurrency will benefit from large-scale regulation that will help the industry grow bigger and better.

3:37 JORDAN, Welcome back to London, thank you, honored to be here. I always enjoy it, I love having you here. You were here in studio three years ago, in 2019, you had me as a guest on the Wolfstein in April 2020, right after YouTube had banned us and we were fighting for freedom of speech. But, you know, Jordan, I checked back on the episodes. And in neither case did we talk about crypto, which is weird, because for the past year, that’s all that you and I have been talking about.

4:05 We went heavy into the crypto and D5 space. I’ve had probably 50 or 70 guests. I created a crypto and defy academy, graduated about a thousand students in 50 countries. And I’m curious why has the Wolf of Wall Street gone all in on crypto D5 and NFTs? So originally, you know, if you go back to the public statements I made on programs like CNN, CNBC, I was always even in my most pessimistic times of crypto.

4:36 I was always very much a believer in blockchain technology when I was not high on was Bitcoin at 20,000 in 2017, I knew it was right for a massive full and I was exactly right. The thing crashed and burned, but where I was wrong was typically when something like that crashes and burns, it drops to zero. In this case. It crashed and burned, but still had a three billion dollar market cap. And that made me pause and wonder, like, Wait a second.

5:04 I know the market so well, I know how these sorts of speculative assets trade. When they bust, they don’t bust out at the three billion they bust out to zero. So there had to be something there, and that was really kind of the first thing that really made me take a much closer look. Now. My thesis for why I hated Bitcoin so much had nothing to do with Bitcoin, in fact, it was because I thought it was so powerful.

5:27 I’m like, There’s no way the Government’s going to let this [expletive] go. There’s just no way like to me, it was inconceivable that the United States, and by the way, I think they could turn back the clock eight years. They would turn it back in a second and squash this [expletive] before it ever took hold, right? Because now it’s basically too late. But in the early days, you know, I thought the U.S. would do what China did.

5:48 But obviously a government like China. Authoritarian government can just shut things off. Because, you know, Xi says, it’s done, it’s done, it’s not like that here. And I realized somewhere around in sort of mid 2019, a couple of things happened. Firstly, someone gave me a very different perspective and a different pitch on Bitcoin.

6:08 I was hearing all these people Bitcoin’s going to a million, it’s going to replace the dollar, and I’m like, Just [expletive], stop. Because to me, what that meant was, if you want to get idiots to creep crossing you out. At higher and higher prices. When it hits 15 000, you can’t say it’s going to 25 000. That’s not enough, the only way someone’s going to keep buying.

6:27 If you create these wild expectations so unsophisticated, investors will keep buying even when it’s 50 000. So there’s this idea that the story certainly was so prominent back then. Is Bitcoin’s going to a million? It’s going to replace the dollar in three years. And I knew that was nonsense, but then when I wasn’t hearing and there was actually even more of it.

6:46 But it wasn’t exposed to it. Because those people yell really loud, but the people that actually understood Bitcoin like, Stop it, it’s never gonna rip. It’s not meant to replace the dollar not any time soon, but what this is digital gold. It’s a store of value. And I got a very sober perspective from someone on Bitcoin.

7:04 Kind of Robert Beatles, who you might know here a podcast, Beatles, right? And we became partners and actually in an app out there. And once I started looking at it from that perspective and doing more research, and I saw people like Elon Musk. Now it’s not because, like, when people say, Oh, Elon, that’s I’m not interested in that part, the hype part. I’m saying.

7:25 It was a bunch of people like that, I sort of institutions actually started getting behind it. And I noticed that as the inroads into the mainstream financial system became more and more developed. I was like, There’s going to be too much too much intersection for the government to say stun. I started realizing that it’s not going to happen. I said, What’s going to happen is they’re going to heavily regulate Bitcoin versus trying to shut it down.

7:52 Now, purists will say You could never shut it down, but I, I don’t believe that’s true. There was a timely. I think they could have made it so undesirable and almost made it illegal, they could have really destroyed. It made it something that was in the fringes, and, you know, using for purposes it probably shouldn’t be used for once Across. To that point, I noticed the inroads into mainstream financial institutions.

8:11 I said, It’s going to get regulated, and one thing I do know, and I’ve been around many years. As you know, I’m older than I look. When things like Bitcoin or junk bonds or defaults, things that were once not regulated become regulated. Almost always. It’s a massive boon for that sector, because what happens is once regulation comes in, the bigger money can now safely invest.

8:36 There’s so much institutional money that’s on the sidelines right now, simply because there’s no regulatory clarity once regulatory clarity really comes in. I think it’s going to be amazing. And it will also knock out the Shitty [expletive], who are destroying D5 and the image of it. By releasing these [expletive] coins and doing things that they should not be doing, that they should go to jail for. And that’s come from me.

8:58 Went to jail for something like that by one of my younger days, but I’m a little older and wiser now. Okay, but it’s giving the industry such a bad name from that, so that stuff’s got to stop. Yeah, so that’s where I stand right now. No, there’s like five points there, and I’d love to get into each one because each one it shows the unique lens. Jordan that you can bring to this industry.

9:15 Because, you know, first of all, you know what it’s like to see something and pump and dump something, so you know what it’s like. When you see something like Bitcoin, where people are just trying to say it’s going to a million, it’s going to this. So you can see the flaws. In that logic, you can also see how government typically regulates things in the financial markets. And that’s probably why you had that first impression, and then again, most people would not expect you to say, Guys, regulation is what we need.

9:41 But then again, you’ve seen it from the inside of Wall Street to see how it actually made things like you said. Junk bonds become, you know, things that normal corporations would use and people would pension funds would use. And then, finally, I think it’s a great thing you talk about the industry because you’re watching. People basically commit fraud in the open, transparently in front of everyone, and they’re not getting anything from it. And that I could tell that irritates you right because you said, Oh, it doesn’t, it does.

10:08 Yeah, it does. I don’t want to cut you off, but you’re like hitting them like, I’m like, I start to twitch at all the fraud because let’s talk about the fraud right now because I know it bothers you. And first of all, why does it bother you and tell me, What does it do to the industry? Why does it bother you so much as a person that committed securities fraud, right? One thing we did not do was we didn’t target young kids with no money and take their last dollars.

10:36 I’m not saying what I did was right, but we called rich people and who someone who was worth. A few million bucks or 10, whatever it was, and they lost a few hundred grand and they could recover. It wasn’t their last dollar. And that’s a fact that, in fact, people, everyone’s dispute that go to my podcast. I had my FBI agent who arrested me, he said.

10:52 The exact thing, No, it’s true what you did. So that was one thing and that, and I felt good about that in a weird way. Because even though I was, you know, doing breaking the law, I was like, Well, there’s certainly degrees of badness, and it was bad. I want to minimize what I did, but it wasn’t as bad as taking, you know, late for a last dollar, a different, different game, okay? Or stripping a young kid or a poor person in some thermal country that last dollars.

11:13 Because they think it’s, you know, a legitimate coin when it’s actually simply been launched and designed to separate people from their money. That’s evil stone, cold, [expletive], evil and I never, and just for the rest, I never launched the stock. That was like, I never created something to go to zero that was designed to separate people from their money. You’re a very sophisticated, you’re from Wall Street, why would you know Wall Street? Why would I ever take a company public that I thought sucked right?

11:39 I make a thousand times more by a company that works. So, like I made more on Steve Madden, all the other ones combined, because that one worked the best. You don’t make money by taking the [expletive] company public. The problem is it’s hard to find great companies and also you’re dealing with entrepreneurs who go down, you know the wrong path. But what I was manipulating stocks was more esoteric, so that’s one thing.

12:00 Second thing I wasn’t poisoning the image of an industry. The stock market is a well-established industry, and people knew what they were getting into with penny stocks. In fact, we would send them a letter If you wanted to open up an account at Stratton, you would receive a letter. This is a piece of [expletive] you’re investing in, it’s going to zero. Almost certainly I’m manipulating the stock.

12:19 So when you buy, you’re probably buying in the price way higher than the fundamental value. And when you try to sell it, there’s probably no buyers. I would send that letter to every person no one cared because they knew what they were getting into. Right here. This is very different.

12:31 You’re dealing with people with no disclosure, and it’s just happening at such a level of fraud. With this, like sort of, they call them rogue balls, which is just pump dump, right? Yeah, and these people need to go to jail and listen, And I still went to jail for it, and I deserve to go to jail. And I’m not even I’m. I’m happy in retrospect, because I created the greatest light ever for me, right?

12:51 But the point was is I made a mistake. I deserved to go to jail, forced me to start over, and now I do things right. It’s a great lesson learned, it’s an inspiration and a roadmap for other people. But it bothers the [expletive] hell out of me that these people, they talk about it openly on Telegram. I’m like, You guys understand what you’re doing, like you’re talking about committing fraud, and there’s a paper trail forever on this stuff.

13:12 You guys are gonna at some point go down, you know, as well as I do. There are many very, very large influencers that use their name to pump up [expletive] coin after [expletive] coin after [expletive] coin. Knowingly doing it. They still haven’t gotten in trouble yet. I don’t wish anybody well, but anybody bad, but you know, that really bothered me too.

13:32 Like I got offered, I’m sure. Like you, I got offered to pump up every [expletive] coin in the world. I never did even one, I never talked about one coin ever. The first time I briefly mentioned the coins the other day, a coin called Protocol because I invested in the company myself. But I won’t sell a thing for two years if I invested in it, so it’s like, and I barely even didn’t pop.

13:49 I just mentioned it on my podcast, Oh, by the way I own it too. So, but like, you know what went on, it was ugly and disgusting. MILF Coin, Schmelfcoin, Litecoin, britecoin. Come on, you know, yeah, exactly, and we’ve seen these things launched with like similar names to other coins. And yeah, it’s it.

14:06 And the thing people don’t realize, especially these kids don’t realize, is that on top of everything, Jordan, it’s on the damn block chain, right? So they’re not only there’s literally a trace, you know, on the block of all these things that are going to happen. And you, you believe firmly, that it’s just a matter of time before all these people will be found and prosecuted, right? RYAN I committed securities fraud in 1990 one, two, three and four. I did not get arrested until five years later and at the time I was already out of the market in a completely unrelated industry.

14:43 Running Steve Madden’s shoes and I was out of it doing everything right. The wheels of justice grind slowly, but they do grind forward. And I got to tell you, I think that it needs to happen, it needs to happen, a lesson needs to be done. I don’t think this should go up to everyone but the people that really did this in a big way. Not once, but again and again and again, deserve to feel the pain as an example to everyone else.

15:08 And I truly believe that, yeah, and I appreciate you saying that, and a lot of people in this space, and you know him. Jordan is when they hear the word regulation, they get angry because they say, You’re trying to stop our party. And we got this whole new system. And it’s going to CR crash. The financial system the way it is, and we’re going to set up a brand new system.

15:24 But that’s actually not true or realistic. What you really need is that regulation, because all the institutional money, the money that we know from the pension funds, insurance companies, the banks. When that comes in, it’ll eclipse this whole market, you know, it’ll take a two trillion dollar market to a 200 trillion dollar market. Potentially, there’s some amazing, amazing things that Bitcoin at our blockchain has done things. It’s like you’ll lay down the railroad tracks for, but on the other side of the equation.

15:57 One of the main reasons that people love it so much is because it’s taking away all the regulatory hurdles for raising money. You can raise money for this stuff without spending any money, and it happens in a matter of days. If you want, you could raise money almost instantly in a matter. You get a Telegram group, you do this and you’re in versus having to go through a real actual disclosure and a filing. So my, my concern is, is that I hope that regulation allows some happy medium there, and I believe that it will.

16:32 In other words, it’s going to require what needs to happen here is it needs to be disclosure. The days of living in the shadows behind pseudonyms, I believe, is toxic and ridiculous. It has to end. I understand why in the early days it had to happen because it was all on regular. They would just go and arrest you, so you had to have these pseudonyms, but people then abuse that to start doing all these rug pulls.

16:53 And there’s no one even to go after. Unless the government gets in there and starts to investigate and goes peels back the current, that takes a lot of resources. But I mean, bottom line. I believe this industry needs disclosure and once that disclosure is in there. The power of the blockchain and of good deals will shine through, and the [expletive] deals will really quickly fade away.

17:13 Yeah, it’s a fine line. I had a guy on my show named Vinnie Gupta about eight years ago, and I talked to him recently. He was one of the co-founders of Ethereum, and when they were about to launch the coin, he said, Wait a second, I see this all going wrong. I look at the legality and he kind of withdrew from it and he walked away from 160 million dollars. And but he saw that some people were going to go to jail and we saw that happen.

17:34 There are people in jail now that have been, you know, persecuted, prosecuted. And then you went to the founder of No Wrong ones. Yeah, I know, I know most of the wrong ones. And that’s why you see a lot of people in the Bahamas right now. And in different other locations around the world.

17:49 Because they fear that they’ll be made the poster child of regulation. But a couple of things. I get pitch decks all the time where there’s no last names on the founders. And I’m like, Come on, guys, like, Are you kidding me? But I see why they went there.

18:00 But that has to change because this particular regulation should change. Because once the I think one of the issues is. And this is a legitimate complaint that these people have the legitimate people that are remaining anonymous, so they’re remaining anonymous because they’re nervous about regulation. They’re doing the right thing, they’re trying to do the right thing, but they feel they’ll be persecuted because there’s a lack of clarity. Right now.

18:20 I respect those people and those people need to be anonymous. The problem is for every one of those, there’s 10 people who are using the anonymity to create [expletive] coins and just separate people from their money. that’s the problem. So when you eliminate that hurdle by having clear regulations, there will no longer be a reason to hide behind the shadows. You can still do your general hiding behind some corporations, but ultimately, you know you’re going to have to have some disclosure.

18:44 Someone’s got to be able to take the fall and you need that in. Even if it’s a decentralized organization, there’s got to be someone that has to be accountable. Now let’s go deeper on regulation. Because you were always sure gobsmacked. This market never got regulated because, you know, you felt the sharp end of this ticket regulation you grew up on Wall Street.

19:05 I took my Series 7 and my serious 63 exam in 1993, and I got schooled in all the rules and the laws. And you and I both grew up in an environment that was a hangover from, you know, the stock market crash and the depression where everything was under the microscope. And so when you first saw Bitcoin, I guess you’re thinking there’s no way a financial instrument goes unregulated. Now it has gone unregulated. What was your whole view of that?

19:30 And were, Are you still surprised that the government didn’t jump? In? One thing to my to my fault, a mistake I made, I should have looked at Bitcoin more closely. That was a mistake I made and my knee-Jerk reaction was so negative, it was so like there’s no way it a scam. And remember also, it was first linked to Silk Road.

19:55 Yeah, so it wasn’t like, and that’s how a lot of things start like the Internet. When the first thought was it’s a use case, it kept it alive, right? The Silk Road kept going right, right, of course, and so, but there was this other side of it. There’s been many times in the past when people have tried to launch their own currency in the United States. And they all end up in jail.

20:15 All of them, you know, a guy has many world coined as many instances in the past, the brilliance of what this code or whoever he is, what he did, and his remaining anonymous and turning it into this sort of idea bigger than himself, was [expletive] brilliant. But I thought my knee jerk was so strong and I’m like, There’s no way it’s gonna have to get shut down. Is that I never bothered to look at the actual fundamentals behind Bitcoin. The scarcity, the way that the difficulty adjustments, the way the actual economics of Bitcoin really create over the long term. A very stable reserve currency, which is, I think ultimately, what it’s going to be is some sort of global or universal, even when you know when.

21:00 Harry Mudd from Star Trek is eight, one bit of this, so, in other words, I. I really can see over time how this can become a truly universal asset that can be used as a reserve for other things. It solves so many problems that currently exists right now in the central banking system and as a result of people still being drunk on Keynesian economics. And that sort of monetary policy that comes with expanding and contracting the money supply. When, in fact, I think a lot of that is just simply, it’s almost like it’s the effect going before the cause.

21:36 You know, it’s like it’s like the solutions, creating the problem in many cases. Now I think the other day this is going to lie somewhere in the middle. I don’t think nation states are going to ever give up their sovereign ability to increase and decrease the money supply. I think it’ll be a long time before that happens. It’ll probably take some sort of reset of the entire world financial system.

21:54 But I didn’t look deeply enough at Bitcoin to say, What exactly is it right? And, yeah, and one site, yeah. And you would come from a world where you probably look very suspiciously on anything that felt pump and dumpy. So you probably initially were like, I, I, this thing smells wrong. It walks like a duck, it floats like a duck, it quacks like a duck.

22:15 It’s got to be a duck, and that’s why you originally wanted to duck. Yeah, exactly. It was being used like a duck, so what happened was there was a time when it was being used by people illegitimately. In, like the 2000, the run-up from 2014 to 2017 was a complete bumping up. It was and it went all the way back down to 2000 because it was like the first real retail use.

22:38 The retail adoption was a lot of scamming, going on, a lot of pumping up a lot of wash trades. Tether was, I believe, was being printed at times it shouldn’t have been print. There was a lot of things going on that really were illegitimate, and I and I hated the narrative behind Bitcoin. In the years of 2014 to 2017. It was toxic, it was misleading and I and I think there was massive fraud manipulation.

23:02 But the underlying code, the premise of what Bitcoin is and was, is so powerful that it eventually washed all that out. As legitimate players started to really see this, and I give people like Michael Saylor a lot of credit. Okay, who literally early adopter like that to really put his money where his mouth is, to see it for what it really was, and I respect that. Yeah, I had Max Kaiser on my show Jordan in 2013, screaming about Bitcoin, I bought some, then we were talking about the liquidity issues and all that. And then I had Andreas Antonopoulos on my show in 2015 and 17 and 19, talking about the future of money and the Internet of money.

23:43 He wasn’t using the word defy yet because no one used it yet. And then we. We jumped into this space. About a year ago, I had Michael Saylor on, and when he called Bitcoin Digital Property, it clicked for me. JORDAN I don’t know what it was.

23:55 Sometimes someone will say something and you’re like, Oh, that’s what it is. And once I started seeing for what it is, I had Dan Tapiero here who said, Brian, it’s like the steam engine. It’s a piece of technology that humans have created, like the wheel that takes us forward. And even though we can’t see it this way of cryptographically taking an asset that we can exchange between each other across borders. It really is beautiful tech.

24:18 Once you allowed it to be seen right, once you’re like, Oh wow, this is, this is really great. So I, I, I give you a bit of a pass for not seeing that right away because a lot of people didn’t either. Right, no, it wasn’t I, I, I Warren Buffett, you know, and Jamie Dimon. It was very, very smart. I think almost the more you knew about finance, the harder it was to see the value in it.

24:40 It was seriously. There was an inverse relationship and especially as you said, I think you pointed out, there’s some. Something very important in my purview is that someone who was involved in pump and dumped and knew it so intimately. It was like, What the it was like, Whoa like? To me?

24:53 It was like that, colored it so strongly and it was and it was happening. And it did cause a massive crash in the asset in 2017. As that, you know, that [expletive] got washed out of the system and it formed the new base. That’s when I started Wait a second this next ride is very different than the last one. It was a lot more people talking about digital, gold or digital property.

25:17 It was more institutional in nature. Because to come into it, everything was beginning to change and that’s when I started to look at it more closely. All right, let’s finish up on Bitcoin because I want to get into to D5 and also NFTS, but the state of Bitcoin now. Obviously we came off the highs of like, 67,000, which was October. It was my 10-year anniversary show.

25:36 Finally, when it hit the highs, you know, we’re back down to correct levels or correction levels at 40,000. I think most of the market is now expecting some type of sideways moving over the next couple quarters. I know you’ve come out and said, I can’t stand people. They call Bitcoin to go to a quarter million Bitcoin to go to a million. Because you said something, and Jordan, I quoted you to my academy on Monday, I said, Look, nobody knows the price of the asset in the future.

26:00 They might try to convince you they know they might have a crystal ball and they might have a cape. Or they might be an economist or be a J.P. Morgan, but nobody knows the assets price of anything in the future. We know that from being on Wall Street, but this space is so new that not everyone knows that. How do you see bitcoin, how do you talk to people about Bitcoin, and what do you see as a future Bitcoin? I think that I think Bitcoin’s going higher.

26:25 And I think I said I thought it would be 100,000 by the end of last year, I said, but it could also be 10 000. I don’t know, like I think I think it’s going 100, that’s why I’m long, but I think you just easily be at 20,000 or 10,000. But I certainly think over the next three to five years it goes substantially higher. Why, I think if you look strictly at the adoption curve of people around the world, and especially institutional adoption post regulation. I think it’s pretty easy to make a case that when you take that increased demand, that comes from institutional adoption.

26:58 And there’s another side to think. Assets going up and down stocks, bonds, whatever they might be that most people don’t focus in on. And that is the withholding of supply. There’s two sides to any stock manipulation or just a stock going up and down that is creating demand but also restricting supply. Bitcoin naturally restricts supply, and many people that buy it hold it for the long term.

27:24 It’s sticky, so there’s while this is trading all around, that creates value every single day. The vast majority of Bitcoin. When people buy it, they hold it. So I think when you combine those two things together with adoption. With the stickiness and the investment nature of Bitcoin, I believe it creates a scenario where it should go substantially higher.

27:45 In addition, there’s something that happens with Bitcoin every X number of years called having where the rewards that miners get for maintaining the system. And, you know, verifying transactions and solving the problem, doing the work that actually validates the transaction, it’s very separate from verification, especially validified that others verify it right once. That’s once that reward, it’s like, Maybe it’s like five or six coins they get right now, it’s gonna get cut in half again. If you look back historically at these, what they call havings they, they serve as inflationary events for Bitcoin. So I think that in 202405, when the next halving occurs, I think that’s going to also put upward pressure on Bitcoin.

28:32 But so much can happen between now and then, like it still could go. I don’t know what a zero, but it could still really go to almost worthless, and it could just fall out of vogue. For whatever reason, it’s always possible now. Do I think that’s happening? No, that’s why I’m heavily invested in the asset.

28:49 Okay, but I. I do think that the chances of it being much higher over the next one to three years is great and three to five years even greater. Yeah, Jordan, you just mentioned kind of the volatility inherent in these markets. Have you ever seen an asset so volatile, and do you think humans on even a base level can process an asset being this volatile? I was telling my students the other night I said, Say, you bought Bitcoin, Yeah, you put a hundred thousand dollars in it and it doubled the money to two hundred thousand.

29:21 And then it went back down to a hundred thousand to where you actually were still flat on the trade. I’m saying you couldn’t actually emotionally handle that process because you would have been trying to spend it borrowing the money. You would have thought your future wouldn’t back down to 100,000 you would have probably be depressed, anxious, maybe speak on that as far as the volatility. And because can most humans even handle that volatility? I don’t think there’s anything unique about Bitcoin in its volatility at all.

29:47 Look at oil well. It was negative 30 a barrel a couple years ago and it goes to 150 and goes back down. Okay, you know, commodities and assets could be very volatile. Okay, the difference, and I’ll tell you. The big difference in this whole thing is that when you view it as money, you’re pegging it against things like the dollar, other currencies, where like that?

30:10 It’s supposed to be stable, but I don’t think Bitcoin, it doesn’t act like money right now, it acts like a growth stock and it trades like a growth stock. And until it gets more mature. And it’s probably another couple of years where it’s going to start to mellow out more. But I think it’s going to increasingly become more and more stable over time. In addition, what you have now, which you’ve never had at any point before, this is complete visibility to every single bit of volatility.

30:36 You know, 25, 30 years ago, you know, we would have stocks that were incredibly volatile. But if you wanted to find out about it, I had to wait till the next day and read about it in The Wall Street Journal. You couldn’t track it every second, people could track things every second of every day. Is Bitcoin more viable than GameStop was no way GameStop was far more volatile? It went from like a dollar two to five hundred or three points back.

30:59 So anything that’s being speculated on like that is going to be inherently volatile. It’s when you start thinking of it as currency and, yeah, compared to the dollar, it’s very volatile. But compared to other wildly speculative assets, probably right in line with what it should be. Yeah, you mentioned that transparency of information when I was on Wall Street and when you were, you know, at Stratton, you know? Our the information asymmetry, as Gary Gensler would say, is the reason we made money.

31:26 Because on Wall Street I was, I was doing derivative trades, I would never, ever mention a trade to anybody, so we kept all this information to ourselves. We knew the real price of an asset, the same with you with the penny stocks. And then when the customer would call, you would give them the price of the asset. And it was all right, exactly, and this is the inside bid versus the real bin. Yeah, this is how Wall Street has made their money for 100 years.

31:49 It’s been that asymmetry of information. Now, with the blockchain like you said, every trade is posted, it’s this strange new world. Now. It doesn’t mean markets can’t be messed with. It doesn’t mean that exchanges can’t find ways to make money, but that makes it fundamentally different from what Wall Street does.

32:06 Well, just remember, so like what you just said is exchanges. So when you have listen, what’s happening right now in this first evolution of blockchain is you’re having centralized institutions like Coinbase and Whatnot they those are not. That’s not crypto that’s like, that’s actually the furthest thing. There’s all internal transactions they’re doing, they’re trading it like they do. NASDAQ Stocks over illiquid Nasdaq stocks.

32:31 Like I did, and they’re making mass amounts of money by completely, you know, marking things up, holding things in inventory. I mean, it’s just ridiculous, the amount of money that’s being made because of the lack of transparency. But when you talk about the actual blockchain D5, things like a sushi swap, or when there’s, you know. Then you have slippage in the middle, which creates money. But it’s certainly like in Coinbase, that’s like, not even I wouldn’t consider that’s not even blockchain.

32:56 Yeah, I try to explain that to my students that are like, Well, Brian, and we’re going to talk about Defy when I go on unit swap because I get my students to use these trades. I got charged this gas fee, but there’s no gas on Coinbase. And I just laugh out loud and I’m like, Do you know what these guys are doing over there? They’re giving these big, big bit offer spreads, they’re making mad money. It’s probably crazier there than the trading floor of Stratton.

33:18 You know, they’re making, Oh yeah, for sure. Oh my God, how many were your choir boys? Compared to what’s going on now, you’re right, and, you know, I had, well, Alex Mashinsky of Celsius on here, and he was calling them out, saying, Yeah, this isn’t crypto, this is a stock broker, you know, broken crypto is what it is. It’s an old-school institution that’s using a crypto. Yeah, I do an instrument.

33:38 I think people need to be aware of that right now. You know, they’ve got a lot of liquidity, they’re making a lot of money. But it isn’t the blockchain that is more where the defy space is. And let’s talk about that because you’ve called the blue chips. I think Bitcoin and Ethereum, as in the two most stable of the cryptocurrencies.

33:56 I think you have both, we have both here as well. Can I just get your thoughts on Ethereum because it’ll take us into D5? I was at a conference here in London and Mike Novogratz from Galaxy Digital was there and he said, Look, Bitcoin is digital gold, he said. Ethereum is more of a technology play. He’s that’s more of a tech play, is what you’re doing or a financial technology play, and it trades more like a tech stock. How do you see Ethereum, and then how do you see these defy markets?

34:24 Because it’s pretty fascinating stuff, so they’re very different. Yeah, Bitcoin, Ethereum, they’re very, very different types of assets I look at. Ethereum is almost like the railroad track that’s being laid around. You know, the country right now in the world, allowing the connections from one place to another and for things to be transported on those tracks, so to speak right? Which is all the different tokens that you can, you know, move along the different rails that Ethereum creates up between computers around the world very, very different.

34:58 I think that the there’s some fundamental problems with Ethereum right now in terms of, you know, how expensive it is. And it can be sluggish at times. And the entire, you know, proof-of-work concept going to proof-of,-stake. And I know that they plan on making that move at some point, and I think when they do, it’s going to be a massive boon for a third. It actually works, and it allows for, you know, gases to drop to negligible amounts.

35:25 I think that you’ll you have this sort of this massive network effect with Ethereum that people are building applications on Ethereum. So at a certain point, it just makes it like sort of the default network of choice that everyone else is building on. It’s like, you know, the iPhone becomes so powerful because everyone has their apps, they build on it in the App Store. So all the developers are now increasing the value of this iPhone and what you know. The operating system that was created by Apple is made far more useful.

35:56 Like all the apps that the applications that people then create that integrate with an iPhone, the same thing’s happening right now with Ethereum and Solana. Typically, you know, Solano was launched after like trying to make it as an alternates, cheaper and more effective. But in essence, Ethereum’s got this massive lead right now, so everyone is out there. All these, you know, young, ingenious people trying to come up with the next great thing that’s going to disrupt whatever it’s going to disrupt. And they’re using Ethereum as the railroad track in the same way they’re using the iPhone with your app that you’re building.

36:26 So I think this is, Oh, you could draw a straight line almost to what was happening. I’m going to develop the next great app that was back in like the in the 2010 to 15 with iPhones. Right? Everyone’s an app developer. And now we’re talking about D5 applications with How do I use the Ethereum operating system, so to speak to develop my application?

36:44 That’s going to solve a problem and get rich like that in the crypto world. Yeah, and it is. It’s a victim of its own success. Because right now, the biggest complaint I get from my D5 Academy students is the gas fees. They’re all complaining about the gas.

36:57 And I say, Look, just put the first trade on in small size so you can understand how the railroad tracks work and guess what? We got solutions, we got layer twos and Polygon, we got layer ones like Solana and AVax. And I’ve had car. And, you know, Cardano and Tron and all these others, and I’ve had a bunch of those founders on the show and it’s coming. But it empowers this new decentralized finance world.

37:20 And, you know, Jordan, I think it was last year, May 8th, when I lost the race to be the next mayor of London. I took a look and I thought, What am I going to do next? And I looked at the defy summer of 2020 and Jordan. I saw what was going on, and I thought, This reminds me of banker’s trust in the 1990s. Fixed income derivatives.

37:38 Except you don’t need a balance sheet, you don’t need 20,000 employees, you don’t need a direct line to the Fed. You can be 15 guys in Tel Aviv and a dog or 12 girls in Singapore with a cat. And you can put up uniswap and boom. You can have the same volume as Coinbase, and I thought, This is real, the total value locked. I’m telling you, this is, I was like, I’m in on this, so that’s what we’ve been doing the last year.

38:02 When you see defy. Whereas like you said, these platforms where you can actually literally see your trades happening and they’re not. There’s not a middleman market maker like at Coinbase. When you see that, what do you see in D5 and why are you so excited about it? I think those are ingenious applications and I think that I get listen, they’re ingenious.

38:25 It’s definitely the future. Certainly for crypto, I believe in a lot more than centralized institutions. You know, being in charge of all the buying and selling, it’s almost like a D5. Well, let’s say a centralized institution in crypto is like shoving a square peg into a round hole it just doesn’t fit. It’s like the exact opposite of everything that crypto was intended to be, which was decentralized, right?

38:48 So take that for what it’s worth, there still needs to be far more transparency. I believe in these in all of these, you know, major D5 protocols, you know, sushi swap, pancake swap like uni swap. They’re amazing, and I think they’re gonna be even better in the next three to five years. And I think that, as I think, I just can’t overestimate how important regulation is to this market. Because I think the more this is regulated, it’s going to create such fierce competition.

39:16 The smartest people are going to come in and make this stuff cheaper and more elegant. And I think ultimately they’re going to make it very, very difficult for the coin bases of the world. It’s going to be almost no more neat. Why would you want to have a coin base? I don’t really know, I mean, like, he said, I have an account there right now, I do, and I have a lot of money over at Coinbase.

39:32 Because right now, in today’s world, it just makes it easier for certain things right? But I, I don’t think that’s the future of this world. I think the future is in these D5 applications and I think they’re brilliant. You broke a great point 12 People with a cat, or and I know that happened in Brooklyn. With in the sushi swap.

39:50 I think it was sushi swap that was one of the swamps was there that so you just swap started there? I know people that were founders of it, and they just, you know, literally they killed it. They did with 12 people and they replaced what was a 20,000 person institution with clever coding. And they’re brilliant stuff. Yeah, it’s brilliant.

40:06 And then you saw, like Uniswap, match the Coinbase volume, then you saw, like Sushi swap, come in. And they did this vampire attack where they airdropped all their tokens to the unit, swap customers and, like, stole their liquidity. I mean, it was crazy, and you, you’re like, Wow, this really is decentralized because, you know, you could take someone’s liquidity normally to take. J.P. Morgan’s liquidity would take you 20, 30, 40, 50 years because you couldn’t actually steal it with tokens. The S.E.C. would shut you down before you did it.

40:35 Because J People would call the henchman at the SEC and say, No, get those guys out of business, so you never happen. Yeah, and so I guess that comes to my next question is that we know the banks, we know the banking industry, we know Wall Street. How will they or can they sit by and watch, you know, defy, come in and potentially remove people from having a bank as their middleman with every transaction in their life. I mean, most people don’t realize that their banks control their lives, their brains, you know, every moment of their day via some financial transaction. How does that transition happen, or does it?

41:13 I believe it does not completely, I believe, let me let me take this in a few points here, right? Number one is just to answer your question directly. When we were growing up, you saw these technologies come out these amazing new technologies and there was typically a few different versions. Then we get narrowed down to two. You had data Max and you had VHS and then suddenly just one starts to take hold.

41:36 The network effect starts. And next thing you know, it’s impossible to have two types of technology because everyone’s on VHS, so the people don’t want to make their stuff. The content for Beta and even though Bay was actually a better technology and clearer pictures, VHS won out. We saw the same thing happen with LaserDisc and Blu-ray. Blu-ray won the match.

41:56 We saw it happened, you know, and many times before that, where you have, where you have like two, you have multiple people in the game and then one side wins, but then we see other cases where we have two winners. And I guess the best example that I think is gonna mirror what’s gonna happen with D5 and crypto and the mainstream financial institutions is Apple and Android, Apple represents centralized institutions. They control everything. It’s a tight,-knit community, it’s closed, you have to go through this one place and no one can use it versus Android is basically open source technology somewhat, where people can sort of have. All these different companies can use Android, hence why there’s far more volume in Android than there is an ad.

42:42 It was Apple’s What 30 20 of the market Android is 70. Maybe, but it’s made up of a hundred to a thousand different companies, while Apple is one company, so it’s the best. And they have certain advantages by being a closed ecosystem in control and user experience. That gives Apple a huge edge and also Apple’s an amazing brand. But you notice you have these two independent technologies that run side by side.

43:05 And now, in the early days, if you had an Apple computer, you couldn’t run Microsoft programs. And ultimately they created links to the two over time and they started to talk to each other. And you can get off and on and all the on-ramps and off-ramps between Google Play and Apple Store and their. You know, everything happens with all those ecosystems, right? They start to talk to each other.

43:26 I think that’s what’s going to happen with centralized financial institutions and D5. Ultimately, D5 will be much larger than centralized institutions. But what you’re going to have is on-ramps and off-brands like we’re already seeing right now where you go from the decentralized world into the centralized world. And I think based on how governments ultimately shake this out with regulation because there’s all the KYC issues, there’s sovereign monetary policy. So I think you can’t hold back the technology of DEFY to make it smaller than central institutions.

44:01 It’s going to be D5, much is going to be much bigger, but I don’t think you’ll see the disappearance of centralized institutions in our lifetime. I think you’re going to see D5 taking off and then centralized institutions, being the gatekeepers back into the mainstream financial institutions. And they’ll talk to each other until they’re almost like one in the same. And you’ll probably see the big institutions trying to take over the D5 companies and, you know, like, we can’t. If we can’t beat them joy, they don’t really take over them.

44:30 I think that’s gonna happen very quickly. That’s the answer to your questions. So one more point here. But I think one thing we definitely need to discuss is that define is not just sushi swap and pancake. I think there’s all these other D5 protocols out there right now, countless they’re watching every day, some good, many that are not good.

44:50 Using the name defy to again create situations of, like their own version of a [expletive] coin. But so, you know, Defy is much more than just that pancake swap and sushi swap is much more than that, right? So just people need to be aware of and still evaluate each protocol and each coin separately. Just because it’s defined doesn’t mean it’s great. Exactly, yeah, and I agree with you.

45:11 I don’t think the banks will, will just pick up and go home. I mean, they’re they have massive control over, like all of our lives, all of our brains, the government, etc. So they want to be a part of this going forward, but it’ll be interesting to see how it plays. You know, we talked about regulation earlier, but maybe we just get the last bit of regulation here. How do you think this ultimately is regulated?

45:33 Do you think it happens by the SEC, the F.D.I.C. Do you think it’s going to be KYC everywhere to where? When I plug into a uniswap, at some point there will be KYC, and you made another great point. You said you might want the SEC to regulate this because when the district attorney gets involved, you know you go to prison. And so there also is a better alternative, right?

45:55 You’re the first one to ever make that point. But lately you see a lot of government, institution or institutions trying to get involved in the regulation. It used to be just Gary Gensler versus the world at the SEC, but now it seems everybody’s involved. So I don’t know. Where do you think that goes?

46:09 And then stable coins is the big issue. How will they regulate that or try to create their own? So when I think the chance, I’m going to make a bold guess here that they’re going to form an entirely new regulatory body that regulates cryptocurrency. I’m just gonna guess there’s gonna be an entirely new independent body that will be formed in the same way that we didn’t have Homeland Security a bunch of years ago, we just had like all these different things, they actually formed Homeland Security, which had sort of, you know, jurisdiction over a lot of different things. I haven’t thought they’re going to come up with a new label, great thing to spend money on for essential governments.

46:48 Give me a label and build something from scratch. Why, why, you know, just make it part of the series. You can waste money, building it from scratch somewhere else, right? So I think that you’ll see. You’re probably include voices from the CFTC, the SEC, maybe the NESD and also the English account.

47:03 The plus one is you have the FCA there now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right over in London, so I think you’ll see some something like that happen. But I think the real listen, there’s two aspects of this one is disclosure like the next last thing you want is the government or any agency or regulator. Calling balls and strengths, trying to say what’s good and what’s bad. The day they start trying to do that is the day it’s over.

47:47 And I think the Government knows that because all of U.S. security laws is designed to not call balls and strikes. They’re not going to say, This is good, this is bad, they’ll just say, You better tell people how much we think it sucks, like you have to tell them how bad it is, and if you do, then it’s the buyer. Beware. So I and I think that’s really neat. And I think that you have to have an adequate disclosure mechanism for people to invest in crypto.

48:10 Within the absence of that, you have just too many unscrupulous players that take advantage, that’s a really good point. Some proper disclosure if that happens, and stable coins like, just while we’re on it, what do you think of these things? I mean, you know, they weren’t around when I had the conversations in 13 and 15 and 17 and 19. And sure, and when I saw him, I was like, Wow, I, I got my mom on a hot wallet. She’s 78 years old, she lives in San Diego, California, and I, I sent her some Ethereum Jordan.

48:37 I sent her some chain link because she gave birth to me, you know? And then I sent her some stable coin. And she said, Wow, it’s like a dollar. I said, Yeah, mom, it’s a lot like a dollar, and she was like, That’s amazing. One of my students raised her hand the other day, Jordan on the call, and he said, Brian, you know, I.

48:52 I bought some Ethereum, I bought some Bitcoin, I bought some, you know, USDC, you know, I’m making money on the bitcoin, making money on my ethereum, but the USDC, it just doesn’t move. You know what’s going on here? And so everybody laughed, but it. It was interesting to highlight how useful something stable can be. What do you think the future are of stable coins, and will the government?

49:12 Yeah, grabbing one? Well, I think stable coins are a necessity in this world because it’s interestingly not. They’re all still, they’re stable to take to the dollar, I mean, so staples, the dollar is, they’re pegged to that, right? I first noticed the utility of stable points when I was traveling in Argentina, my wife’s Argentinian. It’s a possible business there in their own currency because of inflation, and there’s different prices for the currency.

49:40 It’s all manipulated by the government to the point where it makes it unusable. And you can’t send people dollars there because the government clips 30 of it, so everyone’s using stable coins and it’s incredibly effective. It’s instant, it’s amazing. And I was like, Wow, this stuff really, really has an incredible use case. In fact, one of the companies that have a staking called Monarch, we have a wallet.

50:03 We haven’t built a decentralized PayPal that uses stable coins to do everything you could do on PayPal, one-time and recurring payments without gas fees. And without the requiring of Ethereums, we have that technology and without the stable coins, it wouldn’t work. Because how you’re gonna, you’re gonna sell. So if sort of Ethereum or Bitcoin, the next day’s up, ten percent or down doesn’t work. You need a stable means to make exchanges at scale small, large, so it solves a great problem.

50:33 That being said, I am extremely worried that some of these stable coins are not what they say they are like. They are not actually backed by the assets that they’re supposed to be back for. But then again, I would probably say that’s true of most institutions in the U.S. centralized. Like, like, you know, like, I, I think I said, You’re probably unique to stable coins, but I do think that there’s going to be a reckoning here. And I.

50:59 I always hated Tether I. I thought Tether was a complete scam and I believe it was. I believe there was a time back in 2017 when it was so [expletive] up Tether. I think it was completely off the rails and I know they paid a fine about that, but I think that was only scratching the service. I think they’re investigating it again right now.

51:17 Listen, I think probably, I mean, I would assume they’ve gotten their [expletive] together now they’re doing it right, you know, I don’t think they. I think they’re probably using assets that are not quite liquid, as they’re supposed to be to say that they represent a dollar. But I think it’s hopefully good enough that it’s not going to be a crash. Well, oops, they don’t have 50 cents on the dollar. Sorry, sorry, guys, it’s not really stable, right?

51:38 But the other ones USDC and USDT. I mean, listen, then this they’re necessary. I have a lot of money in stable coins because it’s easy if I don’t want to be using, if I say that, I have a few million bucks that I’m going to be investing around. It’s just cheaper to keep them in staple coins, so then they can deploy it, as I want, without worrying about where it might be at any moment. So I always have some reserve in stable coins that I keep.

52:02 Lastly, that’s completely different than this, that a centralized digital currency of the U.S. or the digital one that’s an entirely different thing. It might be able to run on the same rails or something. I don’t know if it will or not, but I will tell you that. That’s just not crypto, it’s just that’s a centralized instrument, like the dollar is basically digital right now. I mean, you know, you transfer it around, so it’s a settlement mechanism, is it on the blockchain?

52:27 So? But I think it’s really dangerous, like a centralized government currency. Good Lord, now, whoop, take that, yo. They don’t like what you say or what you did forget to try to freeze your assets and have that. They’ll just press a button and your money’s gone like, I would never want to have a digital dollar.

52:43 Yeah, we’re here in horror stores of the digital yuan, and it’s like that. It’s like you get the money, but you can only spend it on this, this and this, as long as you behave like this, and then it’s like, and they know exactly where you. I mean, that gives them full clarity into everything. Just that’s it, you know, yeah, and you know, we, we fought hard for, you know, freedom of speech. But if you don’t have financial freedom, you don’t even have the right for freedom of speech because you’ve got no money.

53:06 So it is the ultimate way to control the people, and you could argue that’s what Fiat currency does, and I might ask you about that. I had a Jeremy Alaire, the founder of Circle, on the show a couple months ago, and they founded USDC. And it was interesting. Jordan because he said, Look, every time we mint one USDC, we go buy U.S. Treasury security, not corporate paper, actual trade security. And it’s held and they audit it.

53:29 And it’s the perfect version, he said. Look, tether. It’s not that way. But, he said, some people want it that way, they want a stable coin where the U.S. government doesn’t control it or look at it. And then we see these Algo stable coins, like Tara Luna becoming very popular.

53:42 Okay, 19 20 yields. It’s algorithmic, it comes more risk to it, but also there’s more yields. Even Jeremy said, Look, I. There is a place for algorithmic, stable coins but understand it’s not what we do, which is basically to hold the Treasury in reserve. Like, Ohm, you know, so let’s get into more D5 like, Listen, you know, I’ve.

54:06 If a friend of mine gives me a tip, I’ll put a hundred thousand dollars into almost anything. A friend tells me to put it in there, like without any research at all, because that’s my like with flyer money, right? Right? So I get, I lose a lot like that, but they’re Fritz. I learn, and then sometimes I make a fortune on those investments, by the way, because I have a very good network.

54:23 But I, on the tip of a friend who I trusted, I put money into something called Ohm Yeah, which you probably invested in yourself. I would guess I know it, but then another one called Klima, where I literally put 150 000, and it went from 2000 to 12 hours. Right, like the biggest scam rug pull joke ever, right? And those are defy applications. And especially Ohm’s supposed to be like an algorithmic, stable coin of some sort, right, which turned out to be like, incredibly unstable.

54:55 So I think there’s danger, like you said is A. There’s a place for them, but that’s I consider those very, very high risk, and I wouldn’t even look at them. Stable coins are stable. It’s not a semi-stable coin, it’s like it’s stable or it’s not. Yeah, yeah, and I remember, you know, Cuban got involved with that iron finance.

55:12 And the thing about a stable coin is it’s stable until it’s not, and then it usually goes to zero. And I always tell my students, just because it says USD, C or T, it doesn’t mean it’s a U.S. dollar. If you have a dollar in your bank account. It’s got a FDIC guarantee right from the federal government that’s very different than having, Yeah, USDA exactly. I get another example.

55:35 There’s another application out there called Titano. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, I haven’t actually, so it’s another one of these flyers I took right, except this one I actually made like 10 times my money on. It’s still going, but again, you never know when you just never know when it’s like at any moment. So you got to go into those things. Like.

55:54 If you put money into those applications, you have to be prepared to lose every single dollar that you put in, you have to be prepared. That’s my philosophy, yeah, I mean, I tell all my students that very in the very beginning. Assume all of your capital is at risk in this market, but you know, you’re seeing a lot of super aggressive. What I would call Treasury policies with some of these new protocols where they basically take, you know, all their tokenized capital. And they try to dump it into the customers to get adoption because if there’s no adoption, there’s no future of the company.

56:26 And we’re seeing this done in the crypto space via tokenization, unlike we’ve ever seen done in even tech startup space. I mean, they will liber literally, you know, dump all the tokens into the new users in order to where it continues to live, and sometimes that works, sometimes that doesn’t work. So, yeah, that’s Titano, by the way, Yeah, yeah, okay, that is all right, so beware of that going forward, for sure. I wanted to ask you. Just while we’re on the topic of the dollar, I mean, we talk about things being pegged to the dollar, but like, what about the dollar?

56:54 What do you tell people when they say Jordan, Fiat, currencies, they’re all going to die one day? The U.S. printed so much money. I mean, Michael Saylor was on the show talking about that in 2020. That’s why he got into Bitcoin because he felt like he couldn’t hold dollars on microstrategy balance sheet. Because the U.S. basically just printed enough money to prop up the S. P 500 by 35.

57:15 So, he said, That’s basically inflation. How do you get your head around the dollar? What do you tell your? You know, your followers about the dollar going forward? What I would tell them a month ago is not what I would tell them today. I think what we just saw happen with Russia was just a colossal blunder on the part of the United States.

57:39 I think to freeze Russia’s assets like that, their reserves, currencies, you just it’s done. The dollar is no longer as lawsuits. I think the dollar, we don’t know it yet. But the dollar has lost its trust as being a legitimate global reserve. It’s not, it’s not safe because they don’t like you, they’ll take your money, everything that I’m not saying Russia shouldn’t have been sanctioned.

58:00 But I think to freeze them out of the financial system and to seize their sovereign assets because they’re in dollars. Is [expletive] up and it’s just [expletive] up for the U.S. I think it’s counterproductive for what we want to accomplish. As the U.S. the U.S. has enjoyed this ability to expand the money supply. Live Life Kings.

58:20 But while not creating anything, we’re literally living off of the hard work of China and other countries that are actually producing [expletive]. And we’ve become an economy based of consumerism. You can only do that for so long if you’re not the global reserve currency, we’ve gotten away with it because we just keep printing dollars. And there’s no. There’s nothing they can do because we’re the reserve currency.

58:41 If you were in any other country, you would literally go with your everything. And hyperinflation would occur and the economy would be destroyed in short order. Well, I think what’s happening right now as we speak is the U the dollar is being decoupled from as a global reserve currency. I don’t think it really is anymore and it’s going to get worse and worse and worse. And when that happens, I believe hyperinflation, or at least so significant, we’re already seeing the first shots across the bow of extreme inflation.

59:08 You can’t print all this money and not have prices. I’m in Miami. The price it’s in, it doesn’t make sense. The price of real estate, the price of just all hard goods is going up so dramatically now. It doesn’t make a difference on a song like myself for you, it doesn’t.

59:25 But to the average person on a salary of 50 or 80,000 a year, just gas going up in food prices. It’s a freaking disaster, it really is, and I think a lot of this is because of what you saw happen with the printing of money. And it didn’t just start in the last few years. It started back in after, you know, this double whammy of the Dot-com bubble bursting and then the planes flying into the World Trade Center. And George Bush said, If you stop spending the terrorists win and they loosen the money supply, they loosened up credit.

59:56 Let everyone borrow, borrow, borrow and go wild. And it’s been a straight line all up there with one blip for the GFC. But they printed money to get us out of that. They kicked the can down the road again. Where this ends, I don’t know, but I want to tell you what’s happening in Russia right now.

1:00:11 Scares the living [expletive] out of me because I think that there’s so many mistakes being made. And all these people robles World War. Let’s put a no-fly this bomb. I mean, a good Lord, you’re, I mean, like, Do you really want to be at war with Russia with six thousand five thousand nuclear warheads, I don’t know. I.

1:00:26 It really frightens you what’s going on right now. So you think that De-legitimizes the dollar when they just freeze people’s assets and say, Guess what? You can no longer use what you thought was always going to be a world global currency. Yeah, question Well, you said what you said, Russia right into the arms of the Chinese, that’s for sure. Yeah, that’s the thing.

1:00:44 What can replace it? I guess it’s the yuan, right? And that’s where it’s going. Well, it’s no well in some level, but it’s yes. People don’t really like to be in business with China for reasons because of their authoritarian right.

1:00:56 But I don’t have a crystal ball, Brian, I don’t. What I do know is that I, my own opinion, is that what they did here with Russia on that level for the free, with seizing reserve currencies and cutting them off from the banking system. So that means you, if we don’t like you, you can’t use our system of settlement, so why would any country really want to use this system itself? It gives you so you’re just, you’re completely the slave of the United States. And I think that was never done before, like that, except for a very insignificant country like North Korea.

1:01:31 That didn’t really matter anyway. I mean, it was just contained, it was like a contained virus. And or Cuba, right? But now we’re talking a legitimate country and you can hate Putin, or you think he’s most evil man on the planet. But there’s still a few hundred million Russians out there that are working and producing things, and there’s an economy and they’re in debt with China.

1:01:51 It was very shrewd and there’s a very long-term horizon. I don’t think this ends well for the United States. I really don’t, yeah, I was really surprised as how aggressively they’ve gone after the Russian assets, and, you know, London is a big place for that. And the fact they’re just grabbing, you know, yachts and stuff in different harbors, it seems like they’re shooting first, asking questions later and I, I was surprised at how aggressive that’s happened, and, yeah, I don’t believe it. Yeah, I and again, I guess what?

1:02:22 And we’re seeing, I think, from the Bitcoin blockchain, money going from the rubles right into blockchain and Bitcoin. But again, that’s not the answer. The US’s problem. I mean, I was watching it, I was. I was watching a documentary on World War II and I’m a student of history.

1:02:39 And it’s like it’s exactly what we did to Japan. Before they bombed Pearl Harbor, we literally forced them into bankruptcy. Great, that worked really well. The last three days was sovereign to a big country in the military that could actually strike back. We said, Let’s squeeze them and make them, we’ll make them pay, we’re going to cut off their oil, their money supply, we’re going to make it, so they’ll be bankrupt, we’re going to bankrupt Japan.

1:03:00 What do they do? They started a World [expletive] war. I mean, what do you think Putin’s going to do if you bankrupt this country? He has to go down swinging because if not, he gets hung by a true nearest tree. When you’re an authoritarian leader, either you win, it’s the Game of Thrones, either win or die right?

1:03:17 Yeah, so where is this going right now? I wish that the world would stop and try to create an exit ramp out of this war and makes it really. It’s just, it’s so, it’s really awful, and I think a soul is about, it’s just, it’s Twitter, it’s the 24-Hour News sale. They have to keep saying [expletive] and saying [expletive] and they just keep saying and flaming and flaming and flaming. And you’re hearing [expletive] like now, like Russia just said, the Alaska is actually Russian property, where is it?

1:03:41 I don’t know. Yeah, we’re pretty close to the situation here. Yeah, you make some good points there. Thank you. what do you think you know? I think you made a good point about Putin, is that you know, when you, when you no longer are the premier of Russia, you don’t just go to Florida and retire like a president does.

1:03:57 And you don’t go make a library like you said, it’s a life or death situation for that person. And, you know, we’ve seen them squeezed out of the technology revolution because they haven’t been there. They’re not creating that value for the future. What do they have? Well, they got a military right and they can do asymmetrical warfare pretty good.

1:04:16 They send people over to the England. And they poison people in cities here with a radioactive drug that can only be produced in like a Russian reactor. They do that quite publicly because they that’s one of the ways they can kind of control power. So I, I don’t like the way this is being backed into a situation where a guy, if you look at Putin, he’s been cut off from his people because I think he’s been super paranoid about the virus and everything. And he’s coming to the end of that term.

1:04:45 And I don’t think you want somebody with very few options and squeezing them financially and all the citizens. Yeah, it’s a dangerous thing. They’re shutting down a lot of the online things and the upworks and all that stuff out of Russia. Like you said, how does this build confidence in any type of monetary system in the future? And then you got the nuclear warheads.

1:05:04 I mean, don’t get me started on that, you know, and we’re also seeing that. Like you said you were in Argentina, imagine if you were in Ukraine or Russia right now, or even Canada, where they froze assets recently. I mean, you would want something like a cryptocurrency, you know, just to stay functional, you know, so I’m in two minds. In one case, it shows a great use case and shows what’s flawed with our financial system. But when Fiat currencies go down, they go out, they don’t get, they go down big.

1:05:30 So, yeah, it’s trying times I’m gonna digress over to something completely unrelated, but something I want to get your take on, which is NFTS. Because we never saw it, we’re not live right now, right? Yeah, we are. Yeah, I’m sorry, Okay, you just put the AC on, go back, it just got hot if you put the AC down. Sorry, yeah, no worries, man.

1:05:50 I’ve had people I’ve had people go to the bathroom on the show, so it’s all good. NFCS I wouldn’t have thought that you would be dropping your own FTS and be as versed as you are in NFTs. What do you see in the NFT phenomenon? Has your opinion changed over time? Sure, well, I, I just to be clear, I haven’t dropped my own NFTs yet, I’ve been talking about it, but I haven’t done it, and the reason is because I’m being very careful.

1:06:14 And I, I want to make sure that when I do drop them because I know they’ll, you know, sell pretty well. I assume they’ll sell out very quickly because I have a large following around the world. But I want to make sure that there’s something that’s going to happen afterwards. Like real utility. A lot of the stuff I’ve seen right now a lot, most of them I, I, you know.

1:06:32 It’s a speculative, wild, specular boom, and every once in a while you see something like the board apes happen that it’s awesome and cool. Listen, I own a crypto punk and I’ve been a heavy buyer of NFTs, and I’ve made some money with it. I’ve lost somebody with it, but I love the idea of it. I think we’re at literally the infancy of the infancy of NFTs and what this can do for many, many, many industries. You know, right now, you see, with, like artwork being used as an excuse to create something else.

1:07:05 A lot of the stuff, a lot of these NFTs that are out there and collections are, I think, are gonna face massive regulatory problems like massive. Like. I think that when this regulatory crackdown happens, a lot of the people who launched their personal NFT collection and talked about it. Being their personal IPO. Or the ability to invest in me and my future profits?

1:07:28 It’s like, literally, exactly what you can’t do without getting yourself thrown in jail and some of the biggest collections out there. I don’t want to name any names, but I’m sure you know who they are as well have been talking as if there’s just no securities laws, and they created securities like there’s no doubt there are securities. And they’ve made tens of millions of dollars doing that, and I just think it’s going to end very, very badly. I don’t think the board apes anything like that. That’s the opposite, whereas like, it almost happened like spontaneously like fire, and it could, and that’s a different version, right?

1:08:04 But I think that NFTs are far more applicable to other industries. It’s like tokenizing things like real estate title insurance, you know, users in gaming and stuff. I think it’s amazing, so I am massively into the NFT world and I’m gonna drop my own NFTs. But when I do that, I’m gonna make sure that the exit ramp, the use case doesn’t violate any laws, which I think many of these do. It also will be ongoing.

1:08:30 It’s not going to expire in 24 months or three years or anything like where and after that, then what happens? I mean, it’s like it starts. I know some of this stuff is defies logic right now, and I think we’re seeing that. And a lot of these NFTS are just going right down the toilet to zero or close to it. And then we see sometimes one really takes hold.

1:08:47 And typically that is because there’s something about the community that everyone loves, and it’s great when it works. You spent just over 100 Ethereum, I think, on your crypto punk about 400 000, and why did you buy? What’s that? 440? actually? okay? 40,000. Yeah, yeah, and so why did you buy it, and did you?

1:09:09 Someone offer you more for it right after you bought it? And what did that crypto punk teach you about the NFTs? That’s why I bought that I bought the crypto punk for the education. I because I wanted to get into the space and everybody listen. I was on the cusp of dropping NFTs four or five times already, and I kept stopping.

1:09:28 I had the collection done I had utility created. I was supposed to launch back in October, again in November and then no late in December. And every time I got close, I kept saying, Nuts, just not something, didn’t feel right. It kept feeling like a cash grab, it just kept feeling like I was just an instant cash grab and make five to ten million dollars. And then let it go to the win where it’s going to go.

1:09:52 And I just saying, I don’t need the money. Thankfully, let me hold off and just try to come up with a better idea. A few months ago, I did come up with a much, much more profound idea. And that is, my NFT is being the entry into a wolf of Wall Street game, which you know exists in the metaverse. And that start to get very exciting and have some very large companies.

1:10:11 That I’m, you know, close to Song one or the other right now. To build a really amazing sort of world building game of the Wolf of Wall Street. And it would be a combination of that with a mixed mix with the play to earn angle in it, right and play to learn and earn. And I think that’s super exciting. But, you know, I bought the crypto punk because a good friend of my young guy said, Listen, this.

1:10:32 You know, this is a great way for you to really get into this and really see what it’s about. Because until you’re in it, you just really can’t quite understand. And I show my wife the crypto punk, I said, What do you think this is worth? She’s like twelve dollars, you know, that was her analysis, the oppressed. Well, you could kiss your career as an NFT appraiser.

1:10:50 Goodbye, you know you’re up by 300, you know, 449,000, you know 988 dollars, but anyway, you know, that’s when you look at it. There’s a case, Why the hell is this worth so much money? And you know, it’s purely a scarcity play in this case, right? That’s what you know. Tokenization does, but it’s done correctly, You’re creating a finite supply.

1:11:10 So if something captures the imagination, you know anything could be used as a store of value, right? Some are better than others, but who’s to say I? I think right now everyone is looking at NFTS as artwork. But like all the big NFT holders that I know my friends that are wiggles, they’re like, I don’t really care what the art looks like. Like very few people are buying it for that.

1:11:32 So I think that we’re in the early days of this, there’s a fortune to be made. I think everyone should be in it just to learn about it. I guess I think when you what you’re doing is very shrewd and you’re, you’re coaching people. And you’re saying, Just open up an account, buy something a few dollars. You’re probably gonna lose it all, but you need to understand what’s going on, be part of this, because that’s step one like, but how did I get the Bitcoin?

1:11:53 I bought a Bitcoin? And then next thing you know, you’re tracking it and you’re seeing that’s how it always starts. Yeah, I had, I think it was Scaramucci. That said, your first Bitcoin is the hardest one to buy because you know your ham and your hand and that. But once you get that, then you kind of want to keep doing more.

1:12:08 And yeah, that’s what I do. I get my students to just get the hot wallet, get the whole wall, buy a little stable coin, finance it on ave, swap it out to something on Uniswap, put on a liquidity pool and just get to know it. And then I get my students to mint their own NFTs, and, you know, I’ll tell you my quick journey with NFT’s Jordan I. I became the coolest dad in the world when I gave my daughter an NFT. I’m telling you, you know, and when she’s when you’re 17 year olds, it’s very hard to be cool.

1:12:36 Jordan I could have given her a Porsche and it wouldn’t have been as cool. And this NFT didn’t cost me a lot of money, you know, but I, I gave it to her and I started to see there’s this emotional play and this emotional fascination with NFTS. But I like this Wolf Wall Street game because I talked to a lot of people before we did our NFT release and I did it. I did ours around a live stream broadcast, and I did 100 pieces, and we took 100 documentary photos on the day. And I baked in a piece of our video that was with one of the guests that was banned a couple of years ago.

1:13:08 And so when you own one of the 100 NFTS that I gave to my community, you get a piece of seven minutes of video baked into the NFT, you get an image on the day and this can never be censored by anybody. And that was my way to test the waters. I, I minted them all myself. It’s on OpenC, it’s on Ethereum, but again it was trying to add value to our community, not extract value. And so I know exactly what you’re thinking, because I was thinking, How am I going to do it?

1:13:29 I don’t want to do this, I don’t want to do that. Now. We got our feet wet and now I think we’ll do more things around a live broadcast, who knows you? And I could do an event in London and a live stream and make an NFT collectible out of it. That adds value totally gives people membership to the future events.

1:13:44 But man, the Wolf of Wall Street game now you got me now, you got me. That sounds very well. That’s like to me, is, you know, that’s something like I’ve been listening. I was approached a few years ago by unity and chain games. I think it was, and at the time they all, they offered me some crazy amount of money up front and like.

1:14:00 And they were gonna raise a lot of money by selling tokens, and I’m like, No, [expletive] way, I’m not. I was so negative on crypto, I heard tokens, I ran from the deal. Now. I would do it because I didn’t understand it back then that you know that at this time, it’s just a scam. I can’t be involved with it, right?

1:14:17 So, but yeah, the Wolf of Wall Street game, you know, here’s the thing. So I’m doing it. I have a doctor series that will come out next year for the Wolf of Wall Street. I own those rights and I’m just about to start shooting it. You’ll be on one of the biggest streaming platforms in the world, right?

1:14:30 And that would be a great time to simultaneously release a game. So the idea would be to, you know, launch an initial collection of NFTs that’ll be the Genesis NFTS, right? 10,000 of them. And that was sort of ultimately lead into this game that will be in the metaverse and be [expletive]. Awesome and cool, and that, you know, I think it’s a really perfect brand match for, you know, for my brain represents, and I love the gaming space, by the way, and yes, that sort of stuff makes sense here, it doesn’t make sense to me is I’m gonna launch 10,000 NFTs and make 10 million dollars.

1:15:03 And then say, You get to go into my discord room and you can attend an event once a year. And then for a couple of years. I don’t know, like there’s something about it that just seems fundamentally like, really, really awful. I think it’s not going to end well. And it also creates a perception that you’re perhaps engaging in work to increase the value of an NFT.

1:15:24 And that’s a no-no. As you know, in the securities law, that is sort of a do not, do you know? So we’ll see, but I will be releasing something at some point. I’m really glad you, you brought those points up and you’re trusting your gut on that, and I couldn’t agree with you more. The world doesn’t need 10,000 more unique pieces that get you access to a conference.

1:15:42 They need something this creative that has real long-term value that really builds a real community, and I’ve been fascinated with the metaverse. I had some cool guests on here, the founders of Animoka Brands, and I just had the immutable X Guy here last month. They’re the third largest tech company in Australia now Immutable X two and a half billion dollars. They’re gonna basically NFT everything and make it super cheap to transfer things on their blockchain, so I love it. We got two investments in London Real ventures, one of them’s a metaverse play and it’s super exciting.

1:16:11 They got seven books in there. I mean, I’m like, I used to game as a kid. I’m sure you did too. JOrDaN I don’t as much now, but the metaverse is cool and I think the Wolf of Wall Street game it sounds, it sounds pretty amazing and so keep us, posted Jordan. I want to kind of finish with a couple questions, more of your like perspective.

1:16:28 As a as a dude that’s been around and done so many things. I mean, you used to come to the world from the world of sales, you know, you still are a great sales trainer. You know, you connected with people and, you know, get that human emotion to get someone to, to jump on a venture, you know, we don’t see that much person. -to-person Exchange in the crypto space, and I’m wondering what you find interesting about the crypto space. You know, it’s a little more removed, it’s a little more geeky, it’s a little more.

1:16:57 Cody. How do they react to you, and do you think they need some sales training? Do you think the crypto billionaires are as crazy as you used to be in the day, or do they all have a different kind of energy these days? Yeah, well, I mean, listen, you know, there’s at a certain point. You just need to be able to communicate and close people on your ideas that your concepts make sense that your vision for the future makes sense.

1:17:22 Anyone that thinks they can go through life with just awful communications goes, Yeah, you could be an engineer, and you’ll be a complete introvert that doesn’t want to talk to anyone. But then guess what you’ll be, you’ll be a wozlyak in desperate need of a jobs. You’re going to need that guy that goes out there. So, yeah, if you don’t want to do that well, then align yourself with someone that has that skill set. I don’t care what line of work you’re in tech coder at some point you’re gonna need someone to go out there and be the public based the spokesperson and also sell investors on your idea, so employees are coming to work for you.

1:17:52 Why does someone come to work for you? Why do the talented coders take a job? The expectations? They’ll make a lot of money that’s going to be sold to them. So someone’s got to be selling someone.

1:18:00 Something here or the world doesn’t work, so it works for everything. I often get approached for two reasons when they are because I get approached by all the deals, probably very much a lot of deals that you’re getting approached. I get the same deals, too, right? I have a great circuit and I’m typically wanted to do two things. One use my name brand as a way to get credibility for the deal, and I’ll do that if I really believe in the deal in the management.

1:18:26 And also just advise them on how to scale on how to grow, and those are the two things that, you know, I love doing, I enjoy doing and I enjoy listening like you. I enjoy training people in grip. I’ve never put out a course in crypto, but I’m doing my first mastermind, yeah, crypto, because I love doing it. Yeah, I love doing masterminds I’ve done always, just general business masterminds, and I end up becoming friends with the people a lot of my. We had to become partners and deals together, so I’m sure you’d do those as well.

1:18:55 So I’ll do my first crypto mastermind next month. It’s A is a competency. I’m speaking at the Crypto Conference in Miami after that. I’m doing my own mastermind for a couple of days, so that, to me is going to be a really fun thing to educate people. I think what you’re doing is great with your educational platform.

1:19:10 By the way, yeah, it’s tons of fun. I was interviewing that Professor Silvio Macaulay of Al Goran from MIT, who basically invented zero knowledge proofs. And he said, He’s got, he’s from Sicily, he’s like, Brian. You and I know that the teacher learns more from the student than the student learns from the teacher, and he’s right. You know, you really do learn a lot from teaching people, and your mastermind looks really cool, by the way, and people can apply for that.

1:19:33 I know on your website, and that’s happening, I think, in April in Miami. Yeah. JORDAN BELLFORTCOM Yep, and that’s two days with you and it looks. It looks pretty, really, really cool. Yeah, I mean, moving forward, you know, the metaverse looks massively exciting. Obviously you said it really clear here, people.

1:19:51 Ultimately you have to sell someone an idea whether you’re a crypto company, and I think crypto is one part tech, one part marketing, one part politics somehow, and you could have the greatest platform in the world, but if it’s not marketed right, it won’t. It won’t blow up and we’ve kind of seen that out there. I’d say everyone’s got to get used to kind of closing and selling Jordan. A lot of people know you from the movie and it was an incredible movie. I know you spent a lot of time with Leonardo training him up to be you.

1:20:18 But what they see in that movie is a lot of excess. But what we see now with Jordan Belfort is almost the opposite of that. You know, you’re a pretty sober guy. I just met your amazing wife here and you, you live a very different life that seems to make you very happy. How do you?

1:20:35 How do you explain that to people where they see? Well, we heard about this one, Jordan, which, by the way, the movie wasn’t anywhere near the half of it. From what you’ve told me, versus now where you seem, you know, sober, monogamous, focused. How do those two worlds exist in the same guy, and what do you tell young kids about that? I think let’s let me say, broadly speaking, the things that make sense when you’re 25 don’t make really as much sense when you’re 55, right?

1:21:05 I’d be dead if I kept going like that. So, you know, listen, I fortunately I’ve, you know, financially, been able to rebuild my life and get back to an amazing place. So I still am able to live that amazing. Over-The-top financial lifestyle, which is great. I love that I love nice things.

1:21:22 I love flying in private planes and living on the water and love having a giant boat. And all those things that are fun, right? But I’m not out there like, you know, banging prostitutes by the night. And, you know, smoking crack and, you know, eating quaaludes and doing all the stuff that’s like, unsustainable. And, you know, I always say, when you watch the wolf of Wall Street, it’s fun to watch, but to live.

1:21:43 It was not quite as fun. Everything’s okay in moderation, right? So if you’re young and you want to make a lot of money and live a wildlife, there’s nothing wrong with that. And you probably should get some of that out of your system, but at a certain point, you know, if you’re not growing, you’re dying. And in my case, if I didn’t grow as a human being and mature.

1:22:02 And start to live a more sober and use the right word as a sober life. And that doesn’t always mean not ever using a drug or taking a drink because I do drink. But it’s all done in control and business and family and my own health comes first, you know, and I’m far happier today than I ever was and have a much better life. And you don’t regret any of that stuff you did in the past. That was something you did at the time.

1:22:26 You got out of your system. Like you said, it’s much more fun to watch than actually do, is what you said right? Well, you know, listen, I’ll tell you this, you know, people say, Oh, Marty Scorsese glamorized drums and no, no, it’s just [expletive] glamorous. You didn’t glamorize it, it’s just glamorous, like it’s funny. [expletive].

1:22:43 I’m not saying it’s not fun. It was fun, you know, it was fun dancing. When I got 50 people on a yacht and [expletive] going all over the world, living just every buying, anything you wanted, you’re just all great. But the drugs were like a part of it that was dark and evil. And you know that excess drug use never ends well.

1:23:05 Whether you’re a rock star or a financial rock star, it doesn’t matter what you are, it doesn’t end well. I’m not saying, Don’t do drugs, it’s a personal decision and there’s nothing wrong with everything in moderation. But that aspect. That was what destroyed me, and also a lot of the, you know, the illegal things to do. Because my judgment was impaired because of drugs.

1:23:23 And, you know, I probably would have not done many of the things I did if I was sober. And as you also said, you know, you learn from your mistakes. So I’ve become a better version. Hopefully not my best version yet, but I’m hopefully heading there of myself. Is this, like all part of the journey you think of Jordan Belfort’s life?

1:23:43 I mean, was all that stuff supposed to happen to get you to where you are today? I think so, and I also think that this is, I think the best is definitely yet to come. I’m involved in a bunch of companies right now that I’ll tell you like, I have to get really unlucky right now. For a few of these things, not to really become just massively, you know, disruptive companies, you know, or certainly huge brands and elevating my own brand as well. So I think that, and then I, for me, that just sort of increases my platform to empower people even more.

1:24:20 It’s been an interesting few years with COVID and we’ve all been through. You know, a complete upheaval of the normal system of communicating with people you’ve been persecuted for no good reason. I was very mild because I was not, you know, you were, I would say, Braver than me, and maybe just had stronger opinions that I did about some of this stuff. And but now we’re back in a world, I think it’s coming out of this [expletive], hopefully. And I just think the more successful I become, the more it validates, the things I teach and the more attention it brings to my brand, the more people I can empower.

1:24:53 And I think that I really am just scratching the surface of my ability to help and empower people around the world. Yeah, I think you’re right, and I mean, you can. People can really feel it like, you know you, really, I don’t know. Jordan I. I feel the last couple years.

1:25:06 You really want to help people like you’re out there, like, This is what you’re going to do and you can. I can feel it seeping through you, you know, and it feels like there’s a lot coming from you going forward. Yeah, well, I think that I’m poised right now for a really good few years. And I think, as you said, like, I was late to the game of crypto, but I’m not sorry about that. I think that just it makes me, it makes my position now that much more legitimate like that.

1:25:34 I didn’t just jump on some bandwagon because everyone was making not gonna made a fortune back then promoting Bitcoin. But it just shows you that I really stuck to my gut of what I really believed it, and you know, and also to think, you know why, of course, I could change my mind. People change their mind about things every day. My mind is never made up forever. You receive new information and you keep changing your opinions based on the information you receive.

1:25:55 And you know who knows what the future brings. But, you know, I think that where I am right now, in terms of crypto and Bitcoin, as a result of just fantastic belief that this is going to be a massive future, it’s going to be, it’s literally going to be disruptive to everything, the way we live, the way we spend money, the way we travel. And I think we’re only seeing. The tip of the tip of blockchain technology right now is everything you’re involved in somehow blockchain related And what does what does your life look like in 10 years? If everything goes the way you want it to?

1:26:23 Yeah, not at all, no, I. One of my most promising investments is in a company called Montalk Iced Tea, so it’s an iced tea brand that just literally just hit it. And like it would have when a brand like that hits hard, it hits so hard, it can grow so fast. So I’m in this like a long growth phase right now, with a company that I got into very, very early on, I was in vacationing in Montauk and short story I got involved with. The company got a significant position in the company and the brand.

1:26:51 It’s just amazing iced tea and glass bottles, everything is right, it just took off and, you know, we’ll probably hopefully. Do you know 10 million plus this year, 50 million next year, and then you’re a billion dollar company in that sector? So that’s one that is just completely unrelated to blockchain, and I have others also not blockchain related. But right now, the hot money, the ingenuity is flowing into this space. So you just see so many more deals in that space, but I’m not in any way limited to that.

1:27:21 Yeah, you see a lot of deals, and like you said, things happen quickly in this space where you can. You know, close rounds of finance right quickly, and the tokenization of it and the fractionalization opens up crazy possibilities. I mean, just to finish out. I had a guy in the studio here a couple weeks ago. Arthur Brightman, who founded Tezos, which is now, I think, you know, Top 35 Market Cap, one of the big NFT marketplaces.

1:27:42 But, you know, he was telling me, Jordan, he pitched his idea to Wall Street in like 2016, and he couldn’t raise a hundred thousand dollars. And it was the same Tesla’s blockchain that a year later, he raised 230 million on the blockchain. Now you could argue the ICOs were frothy, but, you know, did the idea fundamentally change in 12 months? No, but the capital markets changed, and so it. It shows you what it’s possible here, right?

1:28:08 You’re hitting on. You find that you’re hitting onto one of the most profound things about blockchain. It’s so amazing for raising money, it’s like, like, literally. One of his greatest use cases is for financing companies. That’s the irony of the whole thing.

1:28:22 Is this a great finance tool into itself? You know, I like, I’d like to see. To really make D5. Defy is all the things that we have in the centralized financial world need to happen and define. Like, if you can actually lend someone money, how do you know they’re credit working?

1:28:39 You need to be some decentralized credit agencies, all these things that need to happen. I’m really excited for that and I think that’s we’re going to start to see happen where D5 really becomes a legitimate way to bank people. And that are unbanked in all these Third world countries, and they don’t have access to a secure or stable currency. I saw that in Argentina, so I think the future is incredibly bright for this stuff and the sooner repeat regulation comes in, the better. Yeah, and there’s all sorts of exciting insurance stuff.

1:29:08 And then there’s tens of millions of people in America that can’t even get access to a bank they have to use Western. You exactly get gouged on a regular basis, so, yeah, I’m looking forward. There’s like two to four billion people that are kind of unbanked, which I think is the last fundamental human right. It’s probably being violated on a daily basis, whether you’re in Russia or Ukraine or somewhere else, so Jordan, want to wrap up stable money. Yeah, yeah, and also just access to have your money, yeah, stable, basic lending, borrowing, you know, final thoughts, Jordan, and how can people follow you?

1:29:38 I know you’re big on Twitter, website, etc. and also final thoughts, Yeah, so you can certainly follow me on Twitter. Wolff, of Wall Street, joined me. Put anyone in Jordan Belfort, Wolf of Wall Street, You’ll find me same thing on Insta anywhere else, tick, tock, tick. Tock is more fun for me, yeah, but again, you know, on my website right now, I am heavily. It was almost sold out that the Master has a few spots left.

1:30:05 I think that’s just like I’m super excited, I want to do more of them. I’ll do the first one on the 9th and 10th of April, but I want to start doing them every couple of months. I just believe in it. I think that it’s such an important thing to educate people and also it’s a great source of deals. You might end up doing deals with a lot of these people, right.

1:30:20 And my final thought on just everything in general that’s going on right now in the world is [expletive]. Everyone should pray that this war does not spiral any further out of control. That’s my biggest fear right now. Yeah, it’s a great point, and I would just say to everybody, like, Always remember, too, there’s an information war that’s happening, and so be careful what you plug into because you know you’re getting the narrative. Your brain’s being co-opted for other people’s agendas.

1:30:46 And so just try to step back, try to make some rational decisions, try to make sure we all make rational decisions. Is, do you want to know the four news agencies I plug into on a daily basis? Five, there’s five? You’re going to laugh when you hit one of them. This is how bad it’s gotten your point, such a point, so valid Fox, New York Times, CNBC, BBC, Oh, Al Jazeera and you watch those.

1:31:14 I look at them all day long Al Jazeera, The Middle East that I cause. If you don’t get the other side you’re missing. I try to go to Russian stuff, it’s very hard to find Russian. I want to see what they’re saying, like how you need to step into the other person’s shoes. Their point of view to truly understand global affairs when you what’s on the BBC’s?

1:31:34 Well, unfortunately it’s starting to get almost synonymous now with what’s on. They’re all becoming rare, global, sort of alive. Just terrible, I think, but an Al Jazeera like, you’d laugh and I’m watching that. But I want a city like, if someone’s not influenced by the U.S. what are they saying? Because so much of the doctrine that’s being spit out there is just nonsense, it’s just nonsense.

1:31:54 And, you know, it was, it used to be all Trump-hating stuff. Now it’s just all Russia hating stuff, and like, you know, I know Russian people, they’re good [expletive] people, Russian people. Yeah, really, you know, the Russians are not bad people. I mean, Putin could be a monster. Whatever that’s, you know, for everyone to decide, obviously what’s going on there.

1:32:10 Is [expletive] terrible in Ukraine, but I just hate when everyone is chanting the same way like that. Death to Russia, death the food that history is not going to treat this moment kindly. I, I promise you that, yeah, it’s very hard to understand what’s going on. And these are the same people that have been showing you anything that will freak you out, make you anxious and shock you. We saw what happened the last two years and this is very coincidental, right?

1:32:35 Just when the covet dies down. We have a war now to dominate your psyche and again, the things you listed, including our beloved BBC here, is state propaganda. At the end of the day, people always ask me, Jordan, who I L Who? What news sources do I do in crypto? I mean, I talked to the founders on the ground for two hours, three hours a week.

1:32:55 That’s usually how I get my best news. Because most of the news websites, there’s some concoction of a agenda that tries to get you to trade immediately or freak out or click bait. And the same is true on all news media. I’d say, So look great to hear about that mastermind. I might come to one of your masterminds in Florida.

1:33:12 We can do one together, we should definitely do an adventure in London, we should do with O2 Arena, you and me, and we’ll do a big crypto event. I’m not [expletive] boxing you though you look like you’re too tough on the In the Ring. April 30th. I’ll be in the ring, so I’ll get, I’ll get familiar with it. I’ve already been.

1:33:28 There wasn’t as big as I remember, I was like, Okay, I can do this, but yeah, let’s do something in London. Jordan sure, really appreciate you appreciate the energy you bring to the space, the mentorship. I don’t know, you got a real fatherly energy about you, and I just appreciate what you give back to everybody. Thanks my brand good showing you all right. Good stuff. Stay with me here.

1:33:47 We’ll say bye to everybody here, thanks so much, we’ll see you next time on London Real. Take care, bye you.