Heston Blumenthal - Question Everything

Full transcript: Heston Blumenthal on London Real

3:44 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Heston Blumenthal, the British chef, restaurant owner, author and pioneer of multi-sensory cooking. You own six restaurants and are known internationally for The Fat Duck, which has three Michelin stars and is famous for dishes like bacon and egg ice cream, mock turtle soup and snail porridge.

4:05 You’ve written many books, starting television shows and are a fellow of the Royal Society of Chemistry and the Royal Academy of Culinary Arts. In 2006 you were awarded the OBE by Her Majesty the Queen for your services to British gastronomy. Heston, welcome to London Real. Really well. That’s how I’m gonna live up to that introduction.

4:22 Thank you. It’s great to be here. Great to have you here. We’re all pretty excited, and we actually met about 11 years ago. I just showed you a picture of young versions of both of us, and I had, I had trekked out to the Fat Duck with one of my clients from Lehman Brothers when I was in banking, and I think I’d seen you on Search for Perfection, maybe one of your television shows, and I remember we went there and I was asking, can I meet Heston?

4:49 And they’re like, he’s really busy. And you came to the table, and then we went outside and we had a picture. And I just, you know, I don’t remember much from 2008, but I remember the meal at the Fat Duck, and I just remember you taking everything I thought I knew about perception and food and taste, and I just, I almost felt like it was sleight of hand, because it was just challenging me. Things I thought were fruits were savory, and things like that were savory or sweet, and then the waitress said good morning and then made the bacon and egg ice cream at the table, and it, and you know, and there’s an egg and she cracked it, but there wasn’t an egg in there, and my brain just kept saying, what’s happening?

5:27 And everything was being challenged. The sounds of the sea, where there was this seafood dish that looked like a beach with foam, and then inside the shell there was an iPod in there. Yeah, headphones. This is before iPhones even, and there was this auditory experience. And again, like I said, I don’t remember much from that year, but I remember that meal.

5:50 Statistic, I was wondering, you know, when you do things like that, what are you trying to do to humans, to us, when we come in to that experience? You know, I think ultimately it’s about generating emotion, and human beings have an innate need to connect with something, with themselves, with another individual, with nature, with social media, with drugs, with alcohol. I mean, if I can’t connect with ourselves, we can’t connect with nature and connect with the people that we love.

6:22 There’s more chances of us finding something else to connect with, and that is really driven by our emotions, and I think that, I, we like it generally. If we discover something that we really love discovering, we love the feeling of discovering it, and it might be some particular sunset or a bottle of wine. We also have an element of us that will want to share some of that with people that we want to impress or we care about. And so my, I suppose some of this was about me sharing my voyage and journey of discovery.

6:59 I’m self-taught, and I mean that was both. It was a double-edged sword. It was fantastic because I wasn’t, what’s the word, imprisoned or compartmentalized or straitjacketed by the structure of classical cooking, and, you know, that educational process. The downside was it took me a lot longer, had to work a lot harder, because Lecter learned by, you know, my organizational skills, where I’ve got a fairly former ADHD, which I wouldn’t change for the world.

7:30 Right, so I was kind of forced to get very organized in the kitchen. So if I discovered something, so for example, my work hit this, I might take this coffee and it works really well with Jocelyn white. Okay. Mmm. Also, come, work with the basil leaf.

7:47 Something that the second mouthful is exactly the same as the first. Okay, my plate of food you eat for might be a little bit different, so I’ve got a milky coffee here. If I then have a sip, I close my eyes and I imagine somebody that fills me with love and happiness, and I do this with you. Okay, so and what we’re looking about is, is it is, it’s one sharper and bitter than the other. So the first thing, that you imagine somebody that fills you with love and happiness, positive thought.

8:14 You can’t be anything bad. Gee, I’d have a sip. Just picture that person now. Immediately you don’t. You don’t have to tell me.

8:23 I don’t tell me who it is. Picture somebody in your life historically that fills you with negative thoughts. So, so bitterness, jealousy, anger, hatred, rejection. Now have another sip. It gets bitter.

8:45 It’s noticeably different. It’s noticeably, I just, this is probably one of my, this is only in the last month, this year that I discovered this. It’s noticeably different, and yet I have a classic engineering training background, and from it, my, and and that would tell me that it can’t be different, right? And we’re always taught that the the palate is only five things, right? In the Roby, you know, it is, but your saliva is.

9:07 Can the connection between the, this, this vertical, this vertical line that connects our genitals with our gut, our organs, all our heads and our brains. So much goes on there, up there, not down. Continuous symbiotic exchange of information. So when you feel fear, imagine island ma, remember watching maybe Jaws or something, a really scary bit. One one metaphor for it is, I’ve got a pit in my stomach, or it’s cold.

9:45 We don’t go cold here. The feeling is across here, and all we have, ensign Akbar, is, you know, we’ve got over a hundred trillion microbes, bacteria, and there are more bacteria in every living human being than all human beings that have ever existed on the planet, and imagine inside, it’s just like a little mini universe. So for you, this system experiences fearless defense mechanisms. That’s where it comes from. If we’re scared, it affects our eating, but it’s, we’re so distracted with everything in modern society today that we don’t notice, right?

10:23 But that’s my chorus, and it’s a dick. It’s a big difference. So basil leaf, you just tear it no one. It’s much more bitter. It really is, and it’s, it’s quite an.

10:33 If you do the left that with wine I haven’t done the coffee left hand or right hand. It’s different. If I wrote, write the word wine, it’s good. It’s used for, have a glass of wine, intimate. Write the word water.

10:44 Wine, with really rounded letters, like but balloons, and then write the word wine in really sharp, sharp letters. Have a sit with the round letters. That actually also works for coffee, right? And you do this on your menu. Is that the feta?

11:00 Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, but do that for the last, it, ever since ’97 I put a dish on the menu which is crab ice cream when I first discovered that there was a history of savory ice cream, and I’m like, I love Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland, and the thing I love about that, but possibly the most is that she continually has conversations with herself. So we have our outer and inner universe, our objective-subjective universe. So when I first saw her savior, it was a plumber’s ice cream, Italian recipe in a book, and I thought was with it, so I stopped myself from that.

11:34 Yes, then why should I think that’s weird? It’s a little thing. Well, maybe it’s because I’ve never heard of it before, so it’s a bit of a contrasting shock to the system. Right, back to your magnet question. Everything, right?

11:45 That question everything. Two different perspectives, so question everything, and everything. So the universe, the result is everything, but also every single thing. So you have to look at the detail and the bigger, and it’s continually almost like zooming in, out. You know, if you’re not careful, you just zoom out or you just zoom in.

12:06 Right? And so all of this discovery with crab ice cream, I did it because I was little savory ice, and I found that people, it was a bit of a Marmite effect at the time, people don’t really bat an eyelid now. You say crab ice cream, things have changed, and that led that if you said to somebody, taste this, this is crab ice cream, some of them might be visibly not, what if you say taste this, it’s a frozen crab bisque. And that’s okay then, and I noticed that had had a difference in the way that it ate a letter.

12:43 The first paper I was involved with, which is Sussex University, a guy called Martin Yeomans, and he had this idea to do this with smoked salmon. So it is frozen and smoked salmon mousse or smoked salmon parfait, that was one or the same dish but called smoked salmon ice cream. Okay, and it was perceived to be 10 to 15% saltier when it was called smoked salmon ice cream, because they expected something different, and his contrast, so before any of the census comes contrast, right, and the contrasting emotions is how we still tell stories.

13:18 So if you want to have a jumpy bit in the film and put a serene bit before it, right? Okay, and so you bring all of these ideas into your cooking and presentation, and the whole experience. Yes, so in a closing her loop from the very long answer I gave you about the first question, is about, was about the senses. Yeah, actually it’s about emotion. So the senses, and I, with the senses there’s two, then we’ve got the five.

13:45 So the sense of touch, taste, smell, sight, sound. We also need to add proprioception, which is awareness of the movement of our body, right, and interoception, which is what’s happening inside us, feelings and emotions and awareness. So all of those things together are as survival or make up part of our survival kit, a really key part. And then I just sort of, if you keep on why, is a great question. So question everything.

14:13 If you ask somebody, so, ok, what’s your favorite ice cream? Mine, yeah, I like a good chocolate ice cream. I like a chocolate, started salted caramel ice cream. Ok, why? Oh my gosh, because it’s salty and sweet and I like chocolate on the last bit you get in there.

14:33 Yeah, why? I don’t know. For me, Chuck, it was always a celebration. You know, it was always a win. It wasn’t anything rare because we weren’t allowed it.

14:42 There’s a kid, so if you say yeah know the bit where I can’t lie, so anymore, if you say cuz I love it, I like ETF, just a justice. I was so happy. That’s the bit. There’s nothing I can think of after emotion cause-and-effect thinking. We’re driven by emotion.

15:03 We might be driven by fear of failure, couldn’t influence us. They’ll want to succeed, they want for pleasure, they want for happiness or fulfillment, and with food you know, I think that one of the things we need to look at if we can approach, and we don’t remember to do this every time we eat. Of course we’ve got other things to get on with if we can approach our food by feeling fulfilled rather than full. If we focus on the feeling of full, then our relationship with our food is always based on that feeling of full, and there’s a, there’s a lag, there’s a delay, so the food that’s better for your lower, the microbes lower down your gut takes longer to fill for because they have to work harder for a reward.

15:46 Okay. so if you, if you focus on feeling full over, now unformed, now, but you’ve, by the time you feel full, you’ve already eaten too much, and then you start getting cross with yourself because I don’t like this feeling. In the room, so we have, start this funny relationship with food, but if you can feel fulfilled, and that sort of means just slow down eating. And there’s a great classic mindfulness thing with the raisin, but you could just imagine you take a raisin, yeah, and you look at it and the hold it under the light, and you see where the creases are, and you’ll see there’s a Rashied, maybe a bit of a shine with the lights reflecting off the raisin, depending on how moist it is, how big are the creases, what’s the contrast between the light and dark, is it more pointing on one end of the other.

16:32 Yeah, you can, you can just extend that for as long as you want to, and then you roll it between your thumb and forefinger with different pressures, and you think, oh, how does that feel? I’m a full finger, how does it feel? Of my thumb, is it softening, is it warming up, and at the same time, you could imagine maybe there’s a farmer who’s in been under a family tradition of a couple of hundred years, they work tirelessly to harvest these raisins, and imagine where the trees come from and how they, they’ve packaged it and all of that stuff, and then you can then bring it towards your, your mouth, and you smell it, and try left and right nostril, they’re slightly different.

17:07 It’s a bit like when you look at something through here, close one eye on the other, its moves, it’s basically comfortable, two different states at the same time, two different perspectives, so then you put it to your lip, the feeling on your top and bottom lip, on exactly the same, and then you can feel in your teeth, and what are you tasting? It’s a bit of sweetness, a bit of acidity there, maybe a bit of spices, are getting something else, roll it around your tongue. You know, you just, you just play this out, all of a sudden that little insignificant reason gets valued, it becomes more precious and more valuable.

17:42 Yeah, what, what causes you to, to start that restaurant and go through those early days? When I look at your history, it takes so much, I’m, you accelerated getting those stars, but it just seems to me like it’s years and years and years before you’re recognized for something you’re doing, then it’s a day-in day-out trying to have certain and the ultimate of perfection, that Bob was my mind. It’s when I look back at it yes it is, and and it even now, things I was doing 20 years ago and now becoming new things, and I think at the time, I don’t know, so it’s a very good point that what kept me going?

18:26 I mean, I suppose I threw myself in, I was, I was self-taught, so my first paid job as a chef was opening the duck, right? I jumped in, I’d I had no choice, so I don’t know. For the first 10 years, I think I had about 20 hours a week sleep, 120 hours a week I was working, used to sleep in there, and I said yeah, and I dare, it levels of exhaustion I never knew existed. Now, had I have had a choice, I don’t even know if I can answer this, but I’m so pleased I did stick with it, but had I’ve had a choice, then with some of those levels of exhaustion, I got to, would I be able to?

19:04 I don’t know if you had a choice meaning, if everything wasn’t riding on that? Yeah, if I, yeah, if you had a way out? Yes, okay, at the time. Now you know this, said I’ve look at it very, very differently in the Hinds Head, so we’ve got the Fat Duck next door, we’ve got a pub with a Michelin star, the Hinds Head, right? 300 400 year of building, and there’s a fireplace, there’s a fireplace there, with, with a phrasing gold leaf, and I’ve walked past thousands of times, and only in the last year or so did I realize the importance of this phrase, this sentence.

19:38 It says fear knocked on the door, faith answered, no was there, and what does that mean to you? To me, it means that when I used the word potential, potential, everything on this planet has potential. So even the young receptors behind our eyeballs are called action potentials. It’s the potential for action, action potential, potential fraction, cold can only exist with the potential of hot. Batman only exists with the potential Joker.

20:12 Joker didn’t they couldn’t even put his fancy PVC little latex suit on and go fights, you know, fight crime, nearly crime to fight it, and they’ll neatly. If you look at nature, said there, you’ve got to feel pain to have pleasure. That I think that’s also can be translated in different ways. You don’t have to feel pain, but every human being goes through some level of suffering in some shape or form, and every individual’s level of suffering is no greater or lesser than another individual’s.

20:41 It’s relative to their own situation, and so I’m not saying we have to have fear to have a belief or faith, let’s say, because it’s fear and faith like hot and cold without is only when the hot becomes hotter than the cold, or the fast becomes faster than slow, or the oxygen becomes greater than the CO2. All the faith becomes stronger than the fear, the that determines the direction you’re going, right? When the fear becomes stronger than the belief, well, then you become pulled by fear.

21:18 When the belief becomes stronger than the fear, you get poked by the belief, and I realized, and this is what this significance is, so funny. I walk past it in part, I maybe subconsciously, it did go in, probably my, my belief was so strong, and it wasn’t about getting a load of awards, because every time I got one, you didn’t feel any better. It’s never enough. I never know, it’s like a drug, elation, and then you come and down. I need another, not, but it was never enough, but the belief in fact was those emotions.

21:55 I think I’m not there’s something out there rather than, it’s an every year we say everything happens for a reason. Everything happens for a reason. There’s a reason for everything happening, and it sort of, it happens in both directions, again, at the same, at the same time. So this discovery, when I started becoming more aware, and then becoming aware of becoming, away, I’ll not get those moments of excitement when I discover something maybe I discover something that somebody else shows me, maybe I discover something for myself, or I have all these what-if questions that get me really excited, and there’s more, there’s more well, there’s not more.

22:40 This one, I was gonna say there’s more to life than what I don’t know where I was going with that, with that sentence however. every, every breath is a potential new life, because just becoming aware of our breath, one time you can cook, go back and revisit everything they’ve experienced. She’ll continue working in many different directions, and then time, that’s when time starts to expand, because when time becomes valuable, becomes richer, mmm. And when the end of that quote, it says, “and no one was there,” does that mean that all of this is kind of an illusion in our brains?

23:21 Yeah, and then we’re, right, fighting these internal battles, and totally totally, totally, okay. Exactly. None of this matters. Yeah, and all of it matters, and there is no time, and absolutely is what it is. Yeah, and then back to that fear and faith.

23:38 Like, you need to ask yourself that question. What is that fear, and what is your faith? And then if nothing’s gonna happen at the end of the day, then why don’t we just all be everything we can be, or why don’t we investigate everything we can? Yeah, all of a sudden it’s like a new universe opens up again and again and again for discovery. Right?

23:57 And you said you had said girl over here, that’s not, that’s something that I think he’d as he’d mentioned, I don’t know if it was, I’ve seen it somewhere, but he has great quote. If you can’t value death, then how can you begin to value life instead of being scared of death, because the more scared we are with death, the more we restrict ourselves with enjoyment of life, because then fear faith knocked on the door, fear answered, and then no one was there. Right?

24:33 Right. so the whole thing can, and it generally does, that it keeps flipping, and that’s on a mental place for 300, all year old pub, the 350 year, thinkers, goldleaf. Wow. And I don’t know. I, I would love to know where that came from.

24:49 I don’t know if it’s out of a book. I have no idea. It’s just on the fireplace, and it’s been in, it’s been there for at least 300,300 years, and I used to tell people I was driven by fear of failure, and maybe I was, but in fact there’s a point when it flipped, and the will and the belief, the fear, right, was then surpassed by the belief, and and I don’t know. People could think that it’s easy for me to say, you know, all these awards, and I, I’ve got all this stuff, so I can say that.

25:25 I’m not, I’m not dismissing them. You know, I’ve, what a friendly, used to be at, well, Greenwood played Bignum X in rugby, player. I said, well, he’s brilliant, that I love him. I said, what would have happened if you turned up to the final of the Rugby World Cup, and Australia were disqualified and you won the Cup? And he said, he thinks a lot.

25:52 Didn’t set there for a few seconds. They said, yeah, I probably have the same or similar level of elation in the instant he said, but it would have very quickly fallen off a cliff, and he says something like, I couldn’t think of life after that. If that, when I imagine that, now having me to the England team on the last legs. They won everything for two years, but they, I mean, they’re right at the end of their world domination period, then they just got over the line, just got over the line.

26:25 However they earn their reward, and this is when I mentioned earlier working for a reward. Are we have a set of hormones called their reward hormones, reward mechanisms that evolved through hunting for food, and when you don’t work for something, that’s why the lottery winners, Yammer here of that many lottery, when it’s going on to do. I’m sure there’s always going to be exceptions, but when you work for something, it becomes much more valuable, right?

26:52 It’s like if you eat for food, if you go go foraging, or you catch a fish, or you know, even, even, even something like a bottle of wine, if you go to the vineyard and you see the winemaking, you’re with him and he tells you a bit about whatever, whatever, and then you have a bottle of wine. Yeah, story, narrow, it’s story in there. Yeah, everything, that’s all with your, the whole reward system, with, flushed with these, with these hormones that have evolved in order to keep us alive by, from a fear, and they wasn’t fearing, a, you know, wanting.

27:26 So you started off as a storyteller and also you were just curious and passionate about food. Yes. And why food? Because a couple of things I realized now. I was born in London and was it like back then in the sixties?

27:48 Yeah, and, and in fact I remembered Jacques Chirac. There was a G7 summit meeting. I did an interview with one of the, one of the main TV channels outside the Fat Duck at the same week where this G7 summit was on. England Eagles, and then if you remember this, it was shortly before the Olympics, London, Paris fighting out, and hurling Jacques Chirac said, Britain has the worst food in Europe, second only to Finland. Now, no offense, let me finish.

28:18 People but that was a bit of a, I took big offense to that. And this is a person, because my old maitre d d served him in, in their G7 meeting in France, and he jumped bail all the way through his mail. But he just dismissed British, like, I’m proud to be British. My name sounds a lot more exotic, but you know, and I love this country. He liked a big affair to that, and within a couple of weeks London, the Paris, for two, out for the Olympics.

28:46 And I checked this, was set comb about two years ago I saw him and I asked him and he said yes it’s true there are a lot of things going on, but it is true, building empty Olympics. Jacques Chirac said that comment, the two finished representatives pulled their votes from Paris and gave him to London. So my art is we can, we got the Olympics because of our food, because of our cooking. Maybe not this, suit exact because it was perceived to be so bad, but probably in the 60s, 70s, you know, he wasn’t far off on me I grew up, my mom was an is a good cook but and I there was only one type of pasta you could buy in the supermarket.

29:26 It was spaghetti in a blue packet you couldn’t buy olive oil from the supermarket. You had to pour it, pour it into your ears. It was for blocked ears. I don’t, did this day, there’s another question I’d like to know, why olive oil and not other oil? Yeah, that’s what you did with it.

29:42 Height of luxury was an avocado vinaigrette with malt vinegar, and we went to Cornwall every year for our holiday, and one year my dad headed finance, a leasing business, and his business did pretty well, who went to France, never been to France, and my dad read about this three Michelin star restaurant. My parents had never been to one, stop before, let alone three. So I went with them, with my sister, and this restaurant is called the L’Oustau de Baumanière, and it’s in, I live 15 minutes down the road from it.

30:16 So I’ve come back to the altar, and he sat, I sat in this shaded terrace outside this old Provençal farmhouse in a valley of an incredible rocks, called the Valley of Hell. Just the way the rocks, the porosity of the rocks, they’ve receded over the years, and they look like, you know, gargoyles, and there’s a, there’s one of the most beautiful villages in France, Les Baux-de-Provence, because it’s all bauxite, and I was lit up at night, and the whole, that the noise, are we arrived, and I remember the sun was going down, and the crickets, and those of the crickets started to – it’s funny, funny. I can hear a fridge, and there’s a little high-pitched whirring sound from the fridge, which isn’t too far away from the noise of the crickets.

31:09 Wow, still remember that, and that came up as the sun went down, and then this rock was lit up at night with the big Jean Cocteau’s sun, because the guy’s, strike from guy’s grandfather that started it, was very good friends with Picasso and Jean Cocteau, and his, this point his son beamed onto the rock, and this sommelier came up with a handlebar moustache, leather apron, little metal tester, phone, and, and you know when you’re small, everything seems massive, a wireless, it was like a, you know, a billboard or something from a, you know, ten Kamala’s palette from obsessively the mill film, and, and I’ve never seen one. Glasses, they seemed this big. Never see anything like it.

31:51 Crickets going, of glasses, the noise of the feet, of the waiting staff, crunching on gravel, and this unbelievable smell of lavender. Yeah, I’ve come from London, and cool, more, I mean, didn’t get anything like that, and it was as if I’d fallen down a rabbit hole into some multi-sensory Wonderland, and that’s been cooking, got it, got whether I liked it, and I soon as I hit me from a bolt from that, and I bumped from the broom under my skin, in my blood. That was it.

32:27 It’s like I, I, it was a bit, something, a grab hold of me, and how old were you? 15. Okay, 15. I did the old, you know, like my mum’s birthday, with my sister, trying to cook something really badly, kids do, but otherwise that was it. And I think, again, contrast, the more we, the more quicker, or the most powerful of contrast, is the more impact it can have.

32:53 And I think that had I’ve grown up with, I didn’t know, no noise to look like, so had I grown up with oysters and lobsters and Michelin-starred restaurants, it’s still an incredible place, but they wouldn’t have had as much impact on me, right, as, you know, I love Cornish pasty, but that was my mother, Mala, Dave, was the back of a boot of a car, and we, in the rain. I think after having a windbreaker, windbreaker experience on the beach in Cornwall, eating the Cornish pasty in a brown paper bag, and here I was in this place in Provence, with this incredible sounds and smells and everything happening, and I wanted to be a chef, I wanted to cook, but I realized now I actually wanted that it was that emotion that I experienced at that time. Sounds really kind of cheesy, and to say that they could own awakening.

33:44 I don’t know what to bit. It was like I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole, and you wanted to recreate that moment for other people. Yes, in different ways. Yes, and I think the benefit, looking at some of this, is the peasant pleasure pain thing, that sometimes when we’re restricted, it gives us the opportunity to expand in other directions to compensate for the restriction. In fact, doctors you’ve seen was so small.

34:09 I didn’t have a box, I cliff. I didn’t have crickets, I didn’t have lavender. I couldn’t, it’s a humble cottage, it’s a humble, back then, in a way the decor was really plain. It was so plain, so I’ve put my sounds, like my crickets, lament on an iPod, and you know, my laughs that went into a little spritzer bottle, and it’s stuff like that, and my sunlight my teas, the light you had in the restaurant, all those sorts of things. So how can one guy with no training and a cottage in Bray that’s nowhere near London, it’s hardly get to create this, you know, because anyone, because I’m a human being, because anyone can do it.

34:48 They can only do it. Anyone I mean, anyone, anyone who’s able-bodied, si able-bodied, abled, my label senses can do it, only if their belief becomes stronger than their fear. if that, and that’s, and I think everybody has something that they could be incredibly good that they would love doing, that where they were believed in doing. Yeah, this is, there’s a hole, it’s a bit my evolution in the sense that we are here, there’s means almost an infinite well.

35:25 No, there’ll be an infinite number of things that have happened to get us Homo sapiens to this position, and you know, had I have not grown up in London with the food in Britain in the year that it was in, had I have not had v small, tiny fat dark hole, had I have not gone to that place. In fact, I, my dad, not done the job that he did, and that, and had that year that he had, and that enabled us to go to France had we not, one to call more before, there’s so many things that are there, and what I love with memory and this concepts of why I think out Symes and dimension again is terrible. I could never be saying these things if I’d lost my memory, right?

36:08 I can complete going back to revisit the past, and it expands again to the past is in your life, and you expand it, and I can sort of observe myself observing myself, and not know that I’m not going to have all the answers to the other questions. If I did, then I’ve been a black hole, probably. Do you think we’re all sitting on our own Fat Duck? It’s just that fear is getting in the way. Yes, and we need to have the faith and at least answer that door, because the truth is there’s no one there.

36:37 Right? There’s no one that is exactly it. There’s no one knows exactly. There’s no one there. It’s in our heads.

36:43 It’s phantom in our head, yeah, and there’s so much potential beauty and joy we could share with each other if we are absolutely just always to open the door. Exactly, just open the door, just open the door. And we, this is human, celebrate the beauty of being a human being, and this beautiful, Majan Asian, the beauty of imagination and storytelling and connecting. The beauty of it is, so it’s, you computers can do that. They can’t do that now, and I’m worried about AI taking over our food experience.

37:24 What we have, we have to be well I think we do have to be careful. I’ll be aware that we are moving to Ward’s as species without a gut, and if you take the, you take the prints of all that, the Big Bang, because Big Bang started off, there was space, and then when something arrives in space, the thing arrived, and then he reacted with it, time started, and it just a Big Bang, so unimaginably, an imaginal, and he met another Mr. Sun, Mr. Sinha, for two there, and imaginable levels of temperature, and imagine matter, unimaginably small. There was, of time, did this, and then it started to come back together again, so then the gases because the elements, gases, became dust and particles, and then formed planets, etcetera, etcetera.

38:25 So we came from that stuff, and who said that we came from dust and will return to dust? So computers, robots, they don’t need feeding. They’re feeding in a different, in a different way if we don’t value, and it’s, if we don’t value the beauty of human beings and the beauty that we’ve all got inside us, we will, there will be a batch of, I believe, over Harari, what the, I think the, the, the Homo Deus, but when he wrote, you know, we’re moving, I think he called it useless humans or something.

39:09 I think that was his phrase, but if we’re not careful, yeah, we’ve invented these amazing things. I still get so frustrated with telephones as well, because for several reasons, until I realized it. Plato had some record in ethology, etiology, objective subjective universe, and our object of universes. They’re all the objects that were there before us, and mountains and trees and our, there’s also our human created objective universe, like chairs and tables and telephones.

39:41 Our subjective universe is our relationship with those objects. So rather than me hating telephones, actually telephone is a telephone. it has the potential for everything, or has a potential for many things. So it’s my relationship with the telephone, and we should embrace our, me, I would love to do a restaurant with robots because robots cannot. They’re nowhere near knowing or getting a robot to pour liquid from one vessel into another, nowhere near something so simple, to take them, motor coffee, and second something.

40:21 I’m greedy. I’ve got tea and coffee to call it toffee, but that, that movement, right? I decided I poured it. I changed the rate of pouring. Yeah, I stopped.

40:33 I poured it all in. I’d already calculated that it was okay, Italy, the quantity wasn’t gonna overflow if that was custard or Coca-Cola. I poured it a different rate, but I wouldn’t have been aware of all of this. You just do it. There’s no robot that can do this on the planet yet.

40:50 They’re miles away from it, but they’re also demanding to do some amazing things with robots that we’re surprised that they can do. So this is a good pointer. I think, two-year futile, to use robots to celebrate the beauty of human beings, and we are getting closer and closer to robots taking greater control. I mean, now a lot of the law firms, you know, it’s a big concern of theirs. They’re looking at how they’re going to deal with the future, because the algorithms, and they calculate, you know, for legal cases, one on a semicolon being in the wrong spot.

41:29 Well, who needs a human to do that? So there’s an element of these, of these jobs that are going to be, but what you can’t do you know, having human connection, right? You can’t have, and through through standard social media, you, you lose human connection. So you and I couldn’t have this connection. Wouldn’t be the, we did it, and did it with my fat fingers typing.

41:58 Yeah, but that again, its connectivity. There was a great quote. it was, have you seen there’s a site called er in a nutshell? Mmm, very, very good. It’s very well researched as well.

42:14 They had the one on addiction, same thing. We know about addiction is wrong. heroin, the die morphine is pure, like the purest heroin, and you can get and but, you’re, you don’t turn, the hospital system doesn’t turn you great on into a heroin addict after she’s had a hip replacement, but she’ll still don’t die morphine, and what heroin does, it suppresses all the pain receptors, both physical and emotional pain. Hmm, that’s where it’s dangerous. Mmm.

42:48 If we when we get, if we feel judged, many people, they might go and eat for comfort, that might take drugs, and my dream, my alcohol, they might get obsessed with the gym, there’s all sorts of things to do, to try and connect with something, and it ends up saying the opposite, the opposite to addiction is not sobriety. The opposite to addiction, or the answer to addiction, is connection. Hmm. So if we can connect with nature, ourselves and others, that’s that’s, I think, one of the most critical things, and we’re becoming, maybe becoming, increasingly disconnected.

43:33 Right? Yeah, I’m living proof of that. So yeah, when I was disconnected, I was an addict, that was now alcoholic. Actually, had an air, a heroin overdose in New York City about 20 years ago. Wow, did you?

43:43 And I was disconnected, and when I started connecting, yeah, actually thanks to a lot of what this show does. Yes, I was just about to say that. Oh yeah, all of those things they just kind of dissolve away when I was connected, but when I was the greedy banker, I was very disconnected and they wouldn’t find connection. Yeah, so its power, connection would have been from, from these other things, and there was a, they talk about the Rat Park, which is one of the, one of them, are coming, the guy’s name, one of the most famous drug experiments in the sixties or seventies was Mandersohn, rat in a cage.

44:22 I think it was cocaine and water. Yeah, and it would take the cocaine, in them, but he won’t go back to the cocaine until it died, and this guy, is Professor, noticed that actually the rat was on its own. so he made Rat Park. So he’s put rats with his family of rats, and they had, like, slides, and you know, I think they say all about a rat, or all the rat about town would like some of the rats took the cocaine sometimes, occasionally, and some didn’t. None of them got addicted, and none of them died, and then they go on to talk about the Vietnam War and how many, how small percentage of people got addicted.

44:58 Yeah, if you come back, if you come out of a situation, which, like Vietnam, could be like a cage. You take it to numb, and then you go back. Is this why I think lots of clinics don’t work? There might work for some people, but if you come back out of the clinic into your society, in your life, and your life is still the same as before when you went in, you’re going to go back. It’s just, it’s not enough.

45:23 You’re gonna go. You need, you need to change. You need to find that connection, and I think that’s, that’s the most, in the most important things, that is, is being able to find it. It’s easier when you’re younger, obviously, but I say younger, you know, as toddlers grab, but we do continually impose. Society imposes what it thinks it knows best, a knife, and I think that needs to be really revisited.

45:50 Yeah, we also have this real clinical relationship with chemicals and food and all that, and we’re not taking through the narrative, the emotional, the nostalgic. All of these things, exactly. Yes, and odd, but that’s what I, that’s the, that’s the focus really, the big focus of my work now. Okay, is our relationship with things so we can’t yet measure all the specific emotions. That I mean, again, their emotions, we’ve given them names.

46:17 Yeah, but they all have frequencies. Yeah, and the language, the language in itself, is it something that slows us down and messes things up? I’ve already started, and we all bring, like you said, something different to that word. Yes, and I noticed, I think, the vibrations as well, the vitality and the vibrations of our voices. There was a piece recently that said that, I don’t know what, crunch, but some research, how, and let me say this for a couple years now, that our language, and the tonality of the language that we use, can change our DNA and RNA.

46:51 It’s a vibration. Then you vibrate something enough, it’s going to change, and that unnoticed. If I’m, if you, if you’re laughing with somebody and you’re connected, I mean, you can chat and gossip, and they’re in front, and have a laugh, and you feel, you don’t finish feeling tired. But there’s days if you end up trying to explain things to people a lot, or maybe getting frustrated, you can be exhausting, and that must cease. A connection between the intent, or where those words are coming from, and then trying to find the words, and then not know if the words you’re using are yeah, I’m getting a lot better now, but God knows, some of the things people miss, at arms, are completely loony, before, what the things you were saying.

47:40 Yeah, yeah, when I started going into this connection between here trying to explain the connection between quantum, string theory, relativity, Big Bang, evolution, cosmology, mineralogy, feelings and emotions, and ty all through food. It was really clear in my head, and you’ve always thought this way, or like for the past ten years, in the past, to the past ten years. Yet the past, and particularly the last five. Do you think you’re misunderstood? Do people just see the dish and they say, oh, wow, and they don’t necessarily understand what’s happening?

48:19 Yes, previously, I don’t know, maybe over me, maybe misunderstood, maybe just not understood, maybe I think there’s police, quite a few different things. I think there were times when I was frustrated that I thought that people did understand me. We’re not, look back on it. Okay, I’m not, shower, where, how where I was a bit at the time, but without that feeling, and without then trying to justify myself, I wouldn’t hear the words coming out of my mouth, and that’s the learning process, right?

48:57 What were some of the big moments from, like, ’95 up until 2000, 2005, like what were things you remember? Well, there’s this, there’s, there’s dishes. So there’s some pivotal dishes, like the weather, it’s the sand of the sea. This is not in any order. So another, see the orange and beetroot jelly, red cabbage gazpacho, then the, the stuff with a nitrogen, but they are there, they’re there because there’s a story behind them.

49:26 It’s not just the dish, it’s the story behind the dish and all of the techniques and how I came to that, coming for those. But then there’s moments like, yeah, the, oh, getting an OBE was a big thing for me. Actually, finding out I’ve got a coat of arms, and I first thought it was a bit of pomp, and a bit embarrassing, me, a coat of arms. But no one did it. Snow Shepherd, there have been approached to have a coat of arms before.

49:51 Wow, is that separate from the OBE, separate? Yeah, but I think you need an OBE and you need a degree, and maybe the Royal Society of Chemistry. There’s some boxes that need being ticked. Okay, and I am not sure which ones, but they write all those down on this. It’s cow skin, and it took me, I think I was the longest person that’s alive today, it took me eight years to design your coat of arms.

50:13 Yeah, because first I thought I put my kids on it, and then you can’t, because it gets passed down generation to generation. So if they have kids, and they have grandkids, and kids and grandkids, well, how many, you can’t just, you know, it’s got to be. I did that, that Jilly, because my sons had it tattooed here on his arm. Okay, in my head, really hurts, right? The coat of arms on its dead.

50:34 Even yeah, and and so I wanted it that related. It’s storytelling. Coat of arms is storytelling, right? So the, the shield has got a helmet when your OBE, or US, any, if not knighted, it’s down. If United is up, okay, and then there’s a duck on the top.

50:56 It’s a gold duck, which is the gold. There was for the sort of Phoenix, it was coming back from the rebirth of the duck. When we did this, we’re going down personalization, which is really, that’s a huge thing, tailor-making for the individual, and so it was like this duck that looks like it’s flying. It could be taking off or landing. I’m not quite sure.

51:15 It’s probably both things at the same time. Why a duck? Why do you like ducks? Oh, I came out. I’ve just come up when we were embraced by the river, and I come hundred and hundreds of names, and I wanted a rotisserie, but the kitchen was too small, because it was so hot, and and I just, and that was it.

51:32 Fat Duck sounded like a pub name. Then I got a letter from the Bray parish council saying welcome to Bray, wish you every success. How everyone feel your name is not suitable for the village and then some said to me, you know what they meant? No, they think he wanted to change the F and the D around. Never good to me, never occurred to me.

51:51 Enough of one. Okay, there’s a good night if, if it’s already started discussion of what it might be. Imagination, that’s it, and, and so that’s so kept it, and so that’s why they didn’t like the Fat Duck. Well, at the beginning, now, now they’ve been, they’ve been. It took about ten years.

52:07 They wouldn’t even call it the duck. They called it the ringers, cuz it was a pub for the bell ringers. Okay, hundreds of years ago, why didn’t they like the name? Again, we must change the swap via from the, be the dad, and people might call it that. They thought I wanted to really call it that, hook really well.

52:23 That’s why, that’s why they’d like, because he really wants to say that. What no Fat Dark. Never occurred to me. You really weren’t unproven entity. I said they didn’t know.

52:33 What I think, I think the publican, or the, the likely landlord’s, before a bit dodgy. I didn’t realize at the time, but I think they’re a bit dodgy, and everyone’s gonna keep time, every pub in the area. Okay, saw a new owner, oil is coming and now it’s made brave famous around the world, and now it’s done right. So terrible from all around the world, just to come to you that, so on, so on, that, on that, also on that coat of arms, the duck is holding a magnifying glass.

53:01 Okay, sense of sight, right? Also Sherlock Holmes, investing curiosity, which is what you’re gonna. Yeah, magnet and zoom in. If they watch your TV shows, I mean, like you’re back in the lab. You’re digging holes.

53:13 I mean, you guys, yeah, look like a pile of cest. I’m gonna have the scientists just discover, and I usually use my mouth a lot. I mean, I realized I went the other day to see her, to see something in a. It was a place built into the rock in France. Had my missus, I didn’t even realize I was doing it, or just lick the wall let’s see, why I write acidic?

53:37 Okay, I’ve just observed something. I don’t know the answer, but it’s okay if sometimes you know, kind of coat, a bit like Tom Hanks in Big. Yeah, but opens up the caviar. Yeah, yeah, their curiosity. So that’s the magnifying glass, then the sense of sight.

53:52 And there’s lavender in the duck’s beak, which is the sense of smell and the memory from the restaurant in, right, in front, storytelling. Then there’s this, the apple, which is both the Royal Society of Chemistry, which I’m, I’m in gravity, the beauty of how Isaac Newton, the apple did fall from the tree, but there was a ten-year process around gravity, apparently. The apple fell from the tree, and the idea that by observing stuff, what we can learn from observing stuff, and also that’s the sense of taste.

54:23 Okay, mmm, flavor. Then there’s three LEDs, little, little harps, which is a sense of sound. Okay, and then there’s three hands, and the shield with each, with a rosette, which is both the Tudor Rose for the historical recipes, and the Michelin rose, the Michelin star, and the, has a sense of touch, so it’s got, it’s got all the senses in. And then might you have a motto that you can choose in English or Latin, and might question everything. Question everything.

54:55 Yeah, so it’s now on a plaque outside, that, the outside the duck, because it’s become it’s fun. It’s become less layers on layers of nuances in that, in that. And then there’s a badge it goes with it, which is a string. Three, because you, of a hot, cold, the third is the observer. III, and three things into a triple helix, which is also what collagen and gelatin is, three strands of gelatin, which is used a lot in the kitchen, into a question mark.

55:27 There’s sorts of string theory, and if you spin a question mark you get a light bulb, and then there’s an apple for the dot, obviously. So this, there’s loads of nuances on this sauce like, you ain’t years to decide. Yes, and they were waiting. A little waiting, one has two wins. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

55:45 And now that’ll be your coat of arms, passed out, their history. That’s it, and that says, is that you? Is that your story? That’s my story there. Yeah, that’s my story in that coat of arms.

55:56 Yeah, so I’d say that’s probably of all the things that might be the one that I’m the most, when you, again, long answer to your question, but just closing the loop. The thing, that the moments, that’s one of them, that’s one of the ones I’m, I feel really, what’s that, I say proud of. I love it because I keep on going back to it and seeing something else, another nuance that you know, I didn’t have as much of a story, or my story lines were exactly what, reason why the magnifying glass and the lavender and the hands and the layers, and yet because of the senses, the, but there’s much more nuances now into all those things that connects the storytelling and connects to the emotions and collectives, also human, human being, again, more stories, and 20 years from now you’ll look back on it, and there’ll be a new version of this.

56:47 Exactly, right, and new meanings. Exactly, okay. Imagination enables us to create shared beliefs. So a shared belief is religion, is a superhero story, a story, the fairy tale, it’s a poem, it’s social media, it’s money, a company, it’s a company, it’s a state, it’s a culture. I think time is possibly the greatest shared belief of the lot, but we create these, but without being able to imagine together, we could not have then turn the imagination into something.

57:21 Okay, and so we’re storytellers. We’ve created our reality, in our reality can change any free single breath, and second, but we create this. It’s a wonderful thing of being human, and when we have a story around, I mean, look at my perfume, aftershave. The cost of manufacturing a lot of these expensive perfumes and aftershaves, it is so tiny. The cost of packaging and advertising and telling the story around it, that’s where all the money goes, but it doesn’t matter, because if, if we believe that story, then it becomes more valuable, and it becomes real.

57:59 Absolutely, becomes real. You put on the David Beckham aftershave, and you know, you might feel like a person and behave and have a completely different. Exactly. It did you ever cut or come across this? Is this, well, I, I think because you’re from the States, is it, is a kids program I grew up with for an hour’s, well, long time ago now, at least 45 years ago, I’d say.

58:21 Cool. Mr. Benn. Okay, I don’t know, and it was, it’s, I can even hear the soundtrack. Soundtrack, you can see this on line. It was cartoon, very simple cartoon, and Mr. Benn lived in a, in a fairly sort of a terraced house street, and he had a bowler hat, in the black suit, and a walking stick, and they’d go to work.

58:45 Look, I was a banker, basic old of stereotypical banker, not like you, and he’d walk past a fancy dress shop, and he’d go in, and there’s a shopkeeper with a little fez and round glasses, with a funny little bit, nice short guy, and then he’d go and try on an outfit, and when he tried the outfit on, he walked out of the changing room, and he was into, like, medieval Britain, for example, if he was wearing a night sour outfit, and there’s a chef’s one, and he’s responsible for, for running this kitchen, to get the princess who’d lost interest with eating, to try and get it back, eating again. So we put on our clothes, we put on aftershave, we drink a particular type of coffee. There are stories and without.

59:29 And this is why our shout out summers and dementia, for me, are the worst diseases I can imagine, because we can’t tell a story anymore. Yeah, we can’t even, lost our imagination. Okay, we’ve lost being human. Wow, and that story of the reason is that mindful eating. That’s mindful eating, okay, is something that people are thinking about more, talking about more.

59:48 I heard at Google they do it once a week. There’s sections where they just, again, think about everybody that went into making of that food, really ponder the food, slow down, not talk to other people, why you consume. Yeah, think about. Yes, exactly, the mindful song one. of my projects is a mindful sandwich.

1:00:06 Okay, cheese sandwich is still the most popular food in Britain, but imagine you people are on their computer, work away, like I worked on my lunch break, and there’s a sandwich in the car, Balkans. I get a container, and instead of thinking I’m gonna miss my lunch break, if you think I can work really hard for 45 minutes, and I can, I can earn myself 15 minutes of my lunch break, so one day, starkly, a value of the time. Mmm, Julie, you get value at the time that we created in the measurement, but then you just take a few seconds to imagine sitting on, let’s say, there’s a bench outside, park bench, maybe there’s noise of a bus and noise of birds and sunshine, or maybe it’s rain on an umbrella, but you, you, although you’ve, you imagine what the, see, I can, you just imagine the air now in this room, feeling on the back of your left hand.

1:00:58 You now become aware of it. Yeah, so with that imagination you can then be aware of your environment and the feeling of your, but on the, on the bench, and your feet on the floor, and then you’re going to touch the cardboard container, and then you, that little bit of sticky bit when you peel the cover off, and you can hear the crunch of its little plastic, and then you go and touch the sandwich, and we come in to the raisin process again, right, and one of the things that I’m, we’re working on now is trying to show that that has significant increase on your health and well-being. Hmm, because yeah, okay, there’s some things we should eat less of, maybe some things more of, some things some of us should, but everyone is individual, and this is this is the absolute key thing, is that we have our DNA, we have our RNA, we have our microbes, and we’ve got a lot of other stuff in there, then we’ve got the water in our bodies, which carries vibration and the motion, and there’s a lot of research being done at the moment how water holds or carries memory, carries data and memory.

1:02:03 So all of this stuff goes on, you could eat one food one day that will be very different from you eating the same food the following day, or even that afternoon. And you’ve got the circadian rhythm, so all the effects of the Sun, when we get proper hunter-gatherer tribes, they wake up luminous when the Sun comes up, and they go to bed when it’s nighttime, and we’ve bucked the system by inventing time, so we could work internationally around the world together, and you know, a little guys in here, they also need a rest. Yes.

1:02:37 If you think about your microbes like a planet, there’s different cultures and nations and countries and ages and sexes and languages, and you know, there’s, there’s the good guys and the bad guys, who’ve just, just related to what’s happening in the world. You know, it’s just, it’s a, it’s a university, and we are carrying around a universe, and in a world where everyone is increasingly more disconnected from everything around us, totally food is, is maybe the most obvious thing, the easiest thing to get people to potentially connect with, it is because it’s the one thing, and we have to do consciously. It’s the what.

1:03:12 Obviously we need for the spaces we need to breed, mmm. we need to drink or eat. I think bread is meant to be the one thing that you can survive on longest without drinking water, because there’s nothing important, the bread, but we need to eat, and we are, we need to breathe, but we breathe, we’re not conscious unless it, meditate. Yes, aren’t, poor, be mindful. We just breathe.

1:03:39 And in fact there’s a frog in South America that has to think to breathe. Remember a first. So that, my god, don’t be useless. Oh, that I’ll go no, forget, right? And we’re moving towards not thinking to eat, because we’re doing, always do, to be just yes, and act mean.

1:03:57 When I was in the city you would literally be at your desk and you would wore fur down as fast as past hope. Totally, and I’d say a lot of people live that way. They do, and it’s only when I’m watching something on their phone while they’re eating. Exactly. Exactly, it said, it’s that, it’s that, that just always, as if eating, it’s almost like a, you know, a subconscious movement that just happens.

1:04:20 I’m just, I’m not eating, I’m just putting things in my mouth. It’s like tidying up while you’re looking to do something else, and I think that I had never been in this I’ve been in a position where I’m really hungry, but I’ve never been in a position when I’m properly starving. You know, when I’m not, I don’t know where the next food’s gonna come from. Maybe for, don’t get food in a week, I might die. In a really, you’re really starving.

1:04:43 And I think that, you know, only then I think can you get the true value of food, because when we were, again, hunter-gatherers, we work together to keep each other alive and eating, and so from an evolutionary point of view, men went out and did the hunting, which would not be everyday, but women did they did the gathering. Women have a much more complex, advanced sense of smell than men do, because of, you know, Berrien may might be okay for you in the same berry in October might, you might kill you. You have to be very careful.

1:05:22 Men have a better sense of direction than women because of having to track the animal, the creatures down. But we’ve got GPS now, so that’s done nothing. We don’t bash our chests out anymore, so we, there’s a less than I think we needed for anything anymore. No, we, that’s, we’re hanging on to her to our usin in on this, on this planet. But you could argue that some of us have sort of brought it on ourselves by having, have been living in a male-dominated world for the last couple of thousand years, but then that’s changing now, which is a great thing.

1:05:54 But at that funny enough, I did. I’ve got a barbecue. Yeah, it’s a new owner, new product. Right? Yeah, just bringing men back to rule you can be functional.

1:06:02 You know, the product is, I think it might be doing the opposite, because if you put the charcoal on, to the, into the barbecue, it’s just got an electric ring. You plug it in and you press a button. Heats for seven minutes, and the charcoal ignites without fire lighters, with them matches no sulfur. No, it’s so pure. And my missus came back when I had the prototype for this, and I did it.

1:06:28 I press this button. She’s French. Intervention me. I can do this if I just, if I just killed off the last thing that we can do. Yes, we can put up climbing frames and furniture from Ikea, really badly.

1:06:45 So you always go back and look at where did cooking come from? It came from this human experience, in this, this gathering and this knowledge base. And yes, cooking is what makes us human, is what you said. Yeah, cooking, which most people don’t understand, that concept. May be gathering, connecting, cooking, and eating the food that we cooked.

1:07:04 Motus human. So we, we started off as a single-cell bacteria. This is as far as current scientific research tells us, a single-cell bacteria, which came from some hood, cyanobacteria under the sea, I think, was about three billion, bit less years ago. This single-celled bacteria rose to the surface, and over a few million years reacted with the Sun and displaced 21% of the CO2 with oxygen, and then killed all life on, curds, all life on Earth, and was aerobic or anaerobic so now you got 20% oxygen, that was enough to kill off just about all life on Earth at the time.

1:07:48 Went into humongous Ice Age, and the cyanobacteria nearly killed themselves off, and it’s called the Great Oxygenation Event. Okay, then it’s like a superhero movie. This, they’re long claimed, some other back, this affects who we are today. Right? It does.

1:08:02 Is history more rope lasts. Okay, and the chloroplasts ate the cyanobacteria, so now they’re getting equivalent of photosynthesis. Also, there’s an effect inside them. It’s every single leaf on every single tree in the world has chloroplasts in it, and though that, as we move from the sea to land, before even, you know, we, we came out as reptiles so from a single-cell bacteria into some worm, sea cucumbers, we developed a vertebral column. Eyes.

1:08:35 Contrast came before census. You need contrast first, and then, men, fish, reptiles came out of the sea. I’m condensing this, but, but, and that’s when eggs mating has started, because of these fish eggs, which dry out in the Sun and obviously all this stuff happens over hundreds of millions of years, and then when the dinosaurs came along, everything was nearly of, nearly wiped out, and then we shrank into some little mouse-like creature, and that’s when lactating, breastfeeding started, apparently, and when the hairs of that back, around that, goosebumps started.

1:09:11 But we, we could we shrink, and then we started to grow into some furry creature with the tail that went up trees, and then, in the savannas came along, we had forced out the trees, and rivers had to stand on two feet, on two legs, and that’s the sort of evolutionary process, but, we came from the bacteria right, and all the small stuff makes the big stuff, the stuff we can’t see. So Big Bang, the Big Big Bang. there’s an infinite number of Big Bangs that happen all the time, right?

1:09:38 But the Big Bang we talked about, it when it first happened. If you had the first, the first minerals, the first elements are hydrogen and helium. They think it’s bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, and when I saw David Icke’s interview, and you know, a lot of what you say makes complete and utter sense. If you look over evolution, always happened this expansion, contraction, expansion, contraction, CO2, oxygen, expansion, projection. I say too hot, and the universe expanding is breathing.

1:10:10 Everything expands and contracts, just like a DNA cycles function, or like a breath, and there’s a guy, Ed Bullmore, I know. He’s Cambridge or Oxford. You wrote a book called The Inflamed Mind. It’s very good, and when things are inflamed, they’re getting flamed too big. To start off there, there’s, they’re there.

1:10:37 What are they called? Cytokines, and they come along, and then the inflammation triggers certain creatures inside our body to, they start to repair. So expansion, contraction. When expansion doesn’t contract, we die. When it contracts and doesn’t expand, every, every death is the same, right?

1:10:58 And so this whole process, it’s symbiotic. So with the trees, the trees breathe in CO2, breathe out oxygen. We breathe in oxygen, breathe out CO2, and that gets, help buyers, I’m insects and other stuff like that. And the reason you’d like to go back to this single cell is because you’re looking a lot at this brain gut, gut-brain yeah, interaction. You know, and how do you, how do you say that?

1:11:23 You just said that, tell me earlier, a gut-brain, okay, instead of, because people say, oh yes, it’s the that is the. I nearly transposed the first I nearly said grain, but maybe I should. First, what I should call a train bus. So they say the, the, the the gut-brain axis, but it’s also the brain-gut access. It does this, right?

1:11:42 So it’s not just the gut to the brain, as the brains of the gap, and it’s this constant cycle going on. Exactly, cause, and you could call it causality, according to positioning, you could call it symbiosis. You could call it several things. But if you, this Ed Bullmore guy and his book talks about going to the dentist and got inflammation, and the inflammation created stress, and the stress creates the information. Okay, so which come, is chicken and egg?

1:12:07 Okay, but they’re both happening at the same time. Mmm. Is this something you’re studying more, or we’re studying more in the VA, a lot, because it relates to everything that we perceive, and food, and they expect everything, everything, and emotions. I like that. I think that’s the key, the emotions.

1:12:22 Okay, have you transcended food to some extent, or have you always been about more than food? That’s a great question, because I think I have. I think I have, but within, with, wasn’t I, wasn’t aware of it. I think I fooled was my mechanism, or my hook for discovery, right? For curiosity, and also I love unanswered questions.

1:12:59 Not every question has a, not just is wonderment, and wonder meant so you think, well, yeah, there’s, cuz increasing I remember when addition to did the food for Tim, that the astronaut Tim Peake, and we went on them. I think the, the one show, and it was at the beacon failure, early on in the process, just making the announcement, and then I just turned down to him. I didn’t even think about it before I said, what happens when you won’t have a poem in space? so, sort of questions that maybe kids might ask me.

1:13:30 I don’t know, ask the question, because I don’t really sound stupid, like a four-year-old question. It’s a four-year-old, Craven Bay, because you always ask those questions. Ask the questions, right, and and I think that’s one of the things for the creativity, that leap of faith, and we’ve become as a species, because we measure time, so the measuring, creating time is a very good thing to judge how good our lives are, because we want to live longer and longer and longer, then we want to have more money, and more money, and more money, and making more degrees, and more friends on social media.

1:14:01 However, the time lengthens and the friends lengths lengthen, and like you said, that connectivity, we have more shallower relationships with friends. Yeah, but the numbers are more important than the actual relationship, but you currently measure emotion and so I always had this thing with coming back to, supposing a loop with the ice cream. Yeah, when, yeah, with her had the 50 best restaurant awards. You can’t have a best restaurant. You can have your 100-meter sprinter, can be the best for that race, because it’s a linear measured system, but you can’t say, well, from my emotions, better than yours, and the people say it’s the best burger, on that, it might be your favorite, and this is the beauty.

1:14:51 Food, sometimes you want, maybe a Naples pizza, sometimes you want a piece of rough from Rome, sometimes you want something at Pizza, or for the back of a motorbike delivery in a cardboard box, watching a comedy, or something. This is the beauty of food, right? There is no best, technically, there’s nobody. You owned best restaurant in the world, I know, so you were the best, but then I said that I’ve got, I’m actually going, I’m going to Singapore next month, they’re doing an icons award, so the seven chefs that had this, and I’m going to say the same thing I said when I got the Lifetime Achievement Award, because if you, and I’m not criticizing it, it’s a great system, and it’s, and it’s helped so many restaurants, but it’s also put so much unnecessary pressure on, there’s thousands of chefs.

1:15:36 If you add up all the restaurants that have been in the top hundred for the last say fifteen years. There’s thousands of chefs involved in that, that work in those restaurants, so they might think they’ve improved and worked really hard one year, but they’ve now dropped out of the list, because you know, maybe it’s something news come along, and then journalists say, well, you know, you know, in there anymore. So how do you feel you must have a great relationship with journalists.

1:15:59 Oh yeah. I think it’s right. Oh yeah, we’re good to the. Alright, so you’re saying that these people can’t be the best, and so when you get these awards, what do you say? You just try to get a perspective.

1:16:11 The idea, I think you can have a, you can, you just can’t have a best restaurant, but I can only say it when I get an award, because otherwise people think I’ll be, you know, bitter. So so it’s really the fact that the beauty of foodism, it’s all about emotions, so we need said earlier about, about transcending food. Ultimately, are the moat? I might, I might change what I say in in a month’s time, but I can’t think of anything that comes after emotion. I mean, you can argue this, certain meditation levels you can get to.

1:16:44 Where do you just ask? You’re in a complete connected world with every other living thing, right? You can feel, and can’t feel, and feelings. You’re just there. There is no feeling, there’s no emotion, but in terms of incorporating yourself into a society of human beings, where you know life also imposes things on us as we get older.

1:17:08 Tells us what we should do, tells us what shouldn’t do, place the morals, etc. etc. Then it’s emotionally driven, and I think, you know, we don’t open lines. Lines said those have never failed. I’ve never tried, and you look at, I’ve got a 17-month-old baby daughter, and I noticed, you know, and toddlers walked, and seen them eat, they fall over.

1:17:38 But if it was an adult, our owner, this is so hypothetical. If it was an adult, and most of us would go, oh, stuff that. For gamers, soldiers, I don’t like this walking malarkey. I’m gonna cram full force for the rest of my life, make my life a lot harder, but at least I won’t fall over. And that’s kind of what we do emotionally, and before toddlers really understand language, they learn that they don’t.

1:18:04 They’re not born with this. I learned it for a hot oven, careful. They start to learn that without having to burn themselves, but before language is imposed, or that understood, when it comes to eating. This think as a parent, if you didn’t just leave your kids be. Just give them the biggest range of things you know, within reason, but just let them try things.

1:18:23 They eat, they, if they don’t, they don’t. As a parent it could be potentially you could question your own guilt issues, right? With your own food, with your own. Yeah, so without language they can just be who they’re going to be. They can, exactly, fall down and get up and not think of it as a failure.

1:18:42 No, they can experiment and just be. They can experiment and be, like, I think adults to learn so much from just from just looking. Okay, yeah, I sat down with Sadhguru a few weeks ago, and he said, I said, any thoughts on raising kids? And he said, Brian, you don’t raise your kids. He said, you, they’re a blessing, and you’re there to kind of give them the space, yep, to then become who they’re going to be, and you’re a, small, you maybe have a small part in that, but this whole kind of ego projection we do, thinking I’m gonna make this kid this, yes, I gotta get in trouble.

1:19:16 Of couple years ago, cuz I said, I said its tenth amount of child abuse. It was a strong thing to say, but if you don’t, if let’s say you don’t like some certain foods, so you don’t let your child have those foods. That’s not fair on the child. It’s taken me long enough. I want to, mmm, with my, it, with my my adult kids.

1:19:42 Yeah, I want to be. I don’t have any regrets, but I, I do. It took me a long time to realize, as a parent, livin, this is my belief, that the best thing I could do with my children is set them free, and you could argue that the moment they’re born, they could be given a name and get given a religion. You could argue that, the moment they’re born, they’re not free. Now, there’s nurturing there’s a woman, have you?

1:20:15 I don’t know if she’s, but she’s brilliant. Alison Gopnik, child I think she’s, I think her, Tyler, chance, like this psychiatrist, but she’s got a big department at Harvard University and she’s done some incredible work, and she wrote a book called The Gardener and the Carpenter, and it’s this, probably being parents or problem, but that we go through so many worries, about concerns, we try not to project our own insecurities onto our children, but most of the time we can’t help it, cuz we’re not always aware of it, and she said this, year, to apply both sides, the gardener and the carpenter. So if you are gardening, you look at a plant, and you prune it where you think it needs to be, and it sort of grows as a result of that nurturing.

1:20:59 The carpenter is, right? I need a 90-degree angle, like this, he’s going to do this, and, listen, listen, this, and she, that was her metaphor for two types of parenting, and sometimes there’s, they’re both needed. It’s like non-linear and linear human being, and doing the human being is the non-linear. Is that, they, again, time expands and contracts, but the measurement of time doesn’t. Expanding, eject 16 minutes to 60 minutes, but there are times where our perception, you know, it’s almost like, Neetu watches, you know, watch for tick-tock time, right?

1:21:39 And then you need a watch for expansion contraction time, and when you actually being, when you’re actually, when you’re actually being, so those things are, I think, it’s learn it’s just to touch. I’m not saying I’m, I’m, I’ve become brilliant at this by any stretch of the imagination, but I just become increasingly aware of it, to learn at the same time, bit like us and trees, symbiotic relationships, breathe, we, oxygen and CO2. We should look at a kid as a wonderful opportunity to learn about ourselves and maybe some of the things that we lost in life, figures we’ve had to jump on the wagon of, go to school, get this, get my degrees, be a good citizen, more money, get my insurance sorted out, get my, you know have a nice house, a new house, and have more friends, and make sure that you know all these, all of these things.

1:22:32 I’m not saying anything wrong with that, but if we forget the other side of it, then I think we’re in problem. I have a two- and three-year-old boy, and when I noticed first, when they came, when they were young, is like they’re just happy to be here. Like they don’t need a reason to drive a degree, or whatever. They just wake up and they’re just like, this is, this is fun. Yeah, it was a reminder to me that, you know, y’all should be happy just to be here, and maybe that comes back for the bit of that mindfulness as well, like taking pleasure in these small little details that we let go by, and yes, and, and we’re always looking for the next ya thing, and forgetting in the present moment.

1:23:08 Forget in the present moment and I know meditation’s been a big thing for you. You started 10 years ago, or, yeah, I started maybe, you know, well, I, I start, when I say started, maybe, and I look back at it now, it’s quite funny, uh, about maybe fifteen years ago, okay, but I started very sporadically, and I gave up quite frequently. I remember being told to sit on something, the night easy, like a toilet seat with a lid down, sat down. I remember this, two minutes.

1:23:38 Oh my god, like the longest two minutes of my life, but I didn’t understand it. If I say to you, don’t think of a pink elephant, too late, and that’s our chimp brain. So this is even when we talk about things like addiction, or don’t worry, why it never works. Stop doing that, that never works. Yeah, calm down.

1:23:59 That was one, coke, college to do martial arts in area. Calm down. Okay oh, did you? What did you do? I did my Tyra’s, Ilya, Jiu-Jitsu.

1:24:07 You see, I’ll be the wrestling, and I’ve had a lot of MMA fighters on here, and UFC fighters as well, so my nose is broken, but I used to be in the boxing ring, and I would just be so tense, and he’d be like, relax, relax, relax, and I couldn’t relax when you tell me to relax. Night. so I did, I kept my check 17, 18 years, and I did, I did, I didn’t, I did why the ruie, and then I did them. I did a little bit of kung fu, not, but not much. Then I did so that, but I didn’t really realize it was called serve at the time.

1:24:38 Is just, I fell into this full-contact club and loved it, like a French free fighting. Right? yeah, it’s like some of the original MMA guys, force abouts. Yes, in Japan, and things like that, so I, all the movements are very, the very short shop, so in the last three or four months I took up Tai Chi. Okay, oh my god, you know, used to going slow.

1:25:05 Yeah, it was, it’s, it’s hard really, because that my whole balance just serve that is the fast movement. Keep everything. It seems to sort of, you know, it just sorts itself out. Yeah, slow everything down, and then the more you try and relax by telling yourself to relax another form of mindfulness through that slow-moving Tai Chi. Yes.

1:25:30 Okay, and what, Juried, a meditation? What made you think I better check this out? I’ve been seeing, I’m missing, a, actually Buddhist guy coach, who been coaching for years, but I saw him. I met him at the gym once, and we started talking about all, just generally working on ambitions and things. I like to, maybe 20 years ago, 25 years ago, and I’d ever heard of.

1:25:54 I think we know much about any of that world. It just so happened that he was at the gym when we started chatting, and it was on a Mars in those days. I think I went on a Monday or a Sunday evening, and that was it, and he said, “Earlier maybe do fancy a chat on the telephone?” I remember I called him after service one night. We were sort of chatting through some of the, and those days I had a lot of guilt issues.

1:26:21 For her to be the first into work and the last out, and you know, dealing with that and the frustrations of, you know, wanting to try things forward. Nothing was ever quick enough, and so it was, it was part of that process. Okay. And I’d say it’s only really been in the last couple of years that I started to. What, until like when I got to the point where I really, as opposed to first, it’s like, I’ve got to do this, tick the box, right?

1:26:49 I’ve done it, then it goes to, I know I’ll feel better after I’ve done it, and now I’m at the stage where I just love doing it, and it’s much easier, maybe because of where I’m living as well. It’s much easier just to drop into a military state of some shape or form when more stressed we are. It’s a lot harder to, you know, you need to. It’s like learning a language, whether you need to? Yeah, you need to train it, and, and the big, the big difficulty is, the more you try not think of something, if, because that’s what people think it is, the more you’re gonna think about not thinking of something.

1:27:25 Here, and how has it helped you to help with anger or away? Yeah, how it’s helped me. Pay one of the big things is patience, and this is obvious, but it takes time. Patience takes time. It takes time to be patient, and just being able to observe instead of just doing and doing and doing, and I don’t know as part of.

1:27:51 Yeah. I felt miles. I grew up her. Nothing was ever good enough, and, and for you more apparent. Sit here, read Paris to me.

1:27:59 Okay, right, pushing you. Yeah. I’ve never. I couldn’t lie in and couldn’t, you know, always just never, and it was never enough. They were hard-working, they were hard-working.

1:28:09 They’re hard-working, they were hard talking, but they don’t realize. Actually that’s not really relevant. What was relevant was my feelings. Um, and my feelings. I think if we could take her to take responsibility.

1:28:22 And this is not fault or blame, even ownership or trouble. Is with language, when you use a word it can have different connotations to the people that are hearing the word, but if you take responsibility for our emotions, nobody, nobody makes us feel anything. Our feelings are responsible. Situation, and there was a, there’s a philosopher with a great book, and she could the Courage to Be Disliked. Japanese guy, and is based a lot of it on Plato, some of the thoughts of Plato and Adler.

1:28:57 Ostrom philosopher, and he had this thing called a separation of tasks. Then we automatically think a task is clean. the floor, wash the car, don’t do you go to work, but there’s also emotional tasks that we are presented with, so if somebody doesn’t like you, it’s not your task for them to like you. He called it a separation of tasks. Your task is to be responsible for the feeling that you.

1:29:25 If you don’t like the fact that somebody else doesn’t like you, your task is to be responsible for your feeling. Okay, and the person doesn’t like you. If they don’t like you, because it could be a paranoia thing, but if they don’t like you, it’s their task either. to be comfortable with it. Well, they were, it’s not your task, and this is the separation of task.

1:29:44 Now that’s not always the easiest thing to do. And I remember I had guide as if there was it guy sadiki’s X Harvard, he’s a South empty University of it. He’s been work was worth in vostell juh. Okay. I think what was in Auschwitz survivors, all mmm, only one of these guys gave, he gave it exactly as his words, but he sort of gave gratitude to Hitler.

1:30:18 It was said as a shock, but his point was he was owning his own happiness. So, without making a competition of our suffering, you know, the inspiration and motivation that somebody like that can give to others, because you can only imagine how horrendous that experiences somebody’s gone through an experience like that, and then they’re carrying happiness with them. That’s a lots of beacon of hope to an awful lot of people, and so we’d be. I think it increasingly people become victims.

1:30:59 Did you ever want to quit? once you do are some fantastic brushes. I mean, it’s a sense of aragon for me to say that, but at brilliant. because I’ve at through me then when was this? Because I don’t know if anyone’s ever asked me that question before.

1:31:18 It was a long time ago. No, no, I am recently. he’s a long time ago. I was in the car, go to work one morning. I was exhausted, a little, what’s happening?

1:31:36 And I thought, I don’t know, identify when to go to work today, and I remember being shocked, because I’ve never had that feeling before, right? How many years in is this? 10 to 12 run stars already. I don’t remember. Wow, I can’t remember, and I, and I, I also had it because all the, this new stuff is, and this is such a big subject, and I’m not saying I’m going to make a difference.

1:32:08 I know unknowingly I did change the world of cooking and eating to certain extent. I’m, I didn’t realize the effects I had on there on the neurosciences world as well, because at the time with the crab ice cream, the neuroscience is focusing on what they call, they call her, hang on a second cross-modal, so cross-modal. So in one part of the brain connects to another, right? Which is a difference, could I’m also cinesín Asst? I’ve got synesthesia.

1:32:42 Okay. color letter, so those two cross stronger than others, but this is talking about learned association, so like it’s as a musical note can be sharp, and that would be a more acidic, if you were relate to, relate that to a to a taste, right? He’ll be more acidic, whereas a more rounded will be more like sweet and chocolatey. Okay, think. Okay, that’s the way you think.

1:33:11 That’s what I think it shows in what you do. and, and so those are going with that one second. the neuroscience for you change. Yes, science that effect you know, look back, I didn’t realize, didn’t realize I’m believing it so much that I go, the first time someone was coming along and saying, actually, this is multi-sensory. So just the two involve at least multi is everything, and I suppose I’ve had frustration about.

1:33:45 I know I created and this might be connected to my PhD, I don’t know, but I found out this three or four the most beneficial things somebody with ADHD must was pretty extreme. Is martial arts, cooking, table tennis. There’s one more comment before those three. I love all of them, and I think, I think it’s because it gives enough of a framework to work within, right? He’s some kind of anchor, just something, just to keep, and then from there bounce all over the place, right?

1:34:21 So many degrees are for, yeah, exactly. Also it’s somewhat meditative, you can lose yourself in these total practices. You’ve just taking a leak and preparing a leak, and then looking at the roots, and then thinking, ah, what do that takes, like there compared to one centimeter above it. What if I take that slice and cut it this way, or turn it and cut it this way? So look at it, this smell different.

1:34:45 Let’s do the mindful raisin thing. I hate it. How’s it? Oh yeah, under my face, perhaps it’s because of this, this, this, this. So I don’t know, and then maybe that will go into a black hole, that thought, and then it maybe two months later you have doing something else.

1:35:00 Yeah, I’m in bionaire now, maybe discovered an answer to something that also wants, is a question that from before, right? And then four years later that’s in a dish somewhere, then one part of one, one shot of one that no other person eating that might know one day, they might not know exactly. Right, it’s a part that universe that I was you know that I was in, and I, and this process I’ve been, I believe so much, I believe in the beauty of human beings, and well, as we mentioned, the imagination, like I want, I want to, if I don’t make, if I don’t make point one percent of a difference.

1:35:36 I mean, level this is hypothetical in terms of measurement, but I’m going to have a bloody good go at just changing, a influencing the way that we approach our food, our relationship with the food, but without judgment. Everything’s so judgmental these days, right? Explain that. Well, when we wear, if you look at social medias, so many people don’t want to show, post up pictures of a lovely little kitten, or they want to show people how good they are, because they carry, a lot of people carry unaware stress, so we can’t be seen to make a mistake, and we want to show everyone how good we are, so we create this story, and I was a, I was a people pleaser, grew up, maybe my guilt, not so my guilt, my guilt driven in his or behaviors, were any more or less than anyone else’s, obviously.

1:36:37 I’m just inside my body, but what I edited out, my story. So I wanted other people to be happy, but the bit I edited out was I didn’t want them to think less of me, right? So by editing that out, I created an incomplete picture of my life, and then followed it, right? and when I finally said, when I finally said I was a liar, being a people bit, I was a lie because I lied to myself. now we call it a, a black, a white lie.

1:37:22 Well, if that white lies it worse into yourself, they’re not a big deal. Yeah, if you tell a lie, I just be aware of telling a lie, right? Because it’s part of life. Yeah, everyone lies in some shape or form, and you can go a long way on an edited narrative, but sooner or later it will catch up to you, right? Absolutely, and, and, and the sooner or later, the worst time of all.

1:37:44 I read this piece, and I think it was in the garden in a couple years ago, but this palliative care nurse in Australia, I think she was Irish. She wrote a book on this about what people regretted on their deathbed. They’ve accepted the death of their dying. They’re passing away comfortably, by far the biggest, and this was stupid, stuck with me so strongly. they wish they lived a life true to themselves, so true to them, realizing just before you die, it’s better not to realize at all.

1:38:15 Yeah. I can’t think of anything worse. You go, unless I can take that to the next life with you, and this changes absolutely. Unless you can’t, unless you tell your children that or share Harry through or do something. Yes, so not true to yourself, and you woke up one day and said, wait a second, I’m not being true to myself, somehow, even though I’m doing great things.

1:38:35 You’ve been showered with accolades. Absolutely, and what I did was created to think about human being and doings. The big is the imagination and creativity, and, and everything, and then working together collectively as a group with linear measurements, maths and physics and time and money and everything else. We do the doing, so I created the most linear, precision-driven kitchen system but I think has ever existed. Measure the crap, have everything time and timing, timing, measure, measure, measure, and in the process unknowingly maybe moved some of the chef’s towards being robotic.

1:39:14 Then got frustrated at the system because where’s the creativity, right? Guys can’t you know, I was, but I was shouting at myself, and I take responsibility, took risk, but I started to realize these things actually asked them. I did this supper. This is my responsibility. Totally my responsibility.

1:39:34 That’s a big moment. There’s a very big moment. Lot of people don’t ever get to that. No, he’s a very big moment, and the liar when I said to myself, I’m a liar, bothersome. might be just about the most powerful thing.

1:39:45 I remember I’m having tis myzel. I said it. I’m a liar. It’s like this realization of being a lawyer, and by saying that it very quickly, a bit like the door opening, the door, fear and faith. living a plaster off, and that, that.

1:40:13 Yeah, not to say I’m never going to do things without awareness again, but big knowing in my life. My ambition is to be, it’s to become increasingly aware of becoming away. Okay, okay, because then I can always discover more things about myself, and be that discovery maybe help others in some shape or form. I’m in, you know, and so having that realization, saying I’m a liar, you realize that being the people pleaser had caused this manifestation of them something, being too perfect, too robotic, and you thought, and once you realized you could say I’m a liar, did that allow it?

1:40:51 You could take a look at it all again, and say no, I want to go in this new direction. Yes, sure. So then the frustration is in having, have hundreds of people work for you. Yeah, and a track record, it’s all these methodologies in place, and that the tart gets cooked at 72 degrees Celsius, and no, 17.3 people move minutes, and make sure the humidity is X amount or seven on them, and the chefs got to be completely the spirit level, and yeah, everything you do to make it.

1:41:16 Yeah, do what it does, turn the human being into a robot, right? Into the doing. Okay, so you had that realization, and then what changed? Well, then, then I’m still going through the process now. I’m still going through the process of getting the team, because the team that I created, that I build to work toward together more as a team.

1:41:47 So that’s, there’s, there’s been, there has been, was he never do it, but there has been some moments not too long ago where I thought about, I’m just gonna walk away from all of this, make sure they can sort it all out, and Karam, cuz I’m, I was a bit flogging a dead horse, because they were comfortable in the positions they’ve got into, and that’s where human things don’t, I change. Yeah, the scared of change. Yes, like ones that question everything, even was, yeah, absolutely.

1:42:17 Don’t I change? I change. Yeah, and, and there I am, just ready to change everything again. Disruption. yeah, but this is what we do.

1:42:31 I had a guy in yesterday who’s all in the cryptocurrency world, and he’s real a big fan of blockchain, and he said, Brian, thirty years from now this will have to be destroyed by the next generation, you know, and he’s like, everything, we think he is here to stay. You know, as we get older, the younger generation for the rules of impermanence, and they’ll rip it apart. Expansion, pinch, actually, expected that again, and that’s that Big Bang. What comes first, Big Bang or black hole?

1:42:55 Be, been black. Ah, be been black hole, mate. Just everything is the same, it’s the same, and that’s why. Yeah, I stuff when I started, probably four, five years ago. So there’s an infinite number of black holes, an infinite number of black holes there, but all the time is I just, just everything goes from its.

1:43:14 It’s like water going down a sink, blow cold, comes down, comes out the other side. but you said from two different perspectives, depends what perspective you see it from. Light shines. Light doesn’t shine, but it does, and, and you know, I can see this stuff. I could see it, the DNA, the reason why relativity doesn’t work in the black hole.

1:43:39 It’s really simple. It’s because there’s never nothing, but without zero you can’t have modern mathematics, so what Einstein and Bohr were arguing about over quantum was exactly demonstrated quantum. So this is the thing that I think we were should, should say when a quantum is one particle exists in two, if it states at the same time. So you’ve got like the wave, and I don’t, but they weren’t created at the same time. They immediately happened at the same time, on a mini school enough level to take the spin, the Earth once, bits from the other.

1:44:16 They weren’t created at the same time, and they had each one of those two things also exists from two different perspectives. and then he’s connects by one good done two chromosomes. and the till 23.5 till to the Earth, twenty-three point five degrees. You just go down any rabbit hole you love to go in and explore. Yes, love very of your life.

1:44:38 Yeah, and so first of all, you never told me the first time you wanted to quit, and then how you got through that moment? I was I was in the car, I was, any was a brief moment where did that come from? And then I forgot, then I went into work, and probably just ended lunch service, and soldier. I made some videos. Yes, it’s the great thing about a restaurant is that you, you Hannah have to show up, and it has to happen.

1:45:01 That’s these two deadlines a day, remember? I remember Phil eating a piece of cod. One day I was so exhausted, I think I might have gone a couple of days of that sleep. You literally got a couple days without sleep. Yeah, I was suffering, so maybe I was cooking oxtail at 4:00 in the morning, and then, and then something else went wrong, and I just carried on, and I was doing this piece of cod, and Phil is he a cop?

1:45:29 Maybe up to, maybe it was, maybe as a, it was then half or something, but I was standing there, was cuttings after lunch service, and we weren’t really busy, to be honest, at the time. It was just that my organizational skills, I think, where I was still in formation period. I started fitting this piece of cod, and as I cut it, I look down, and then it was like a triangle. there was like a hacked up piece. There was a bit of a funny misshapen square, some Polygram, some.

1:45:55 I just fell asleep, but somehow my telling how I didn’t cut my fingers off. I carry it on, and I look down for what have I just done? I wasn’t even aware of it, but no blood. No, no blood. I went to once, like the gas, the blowtorch was finishing a lemon tart was with a hot tap, so I turned.

1:46:17 I remember thinking it was about Alice in Wonderland. If he can’t possibly, I suppose I should the cold with cold water. What am I doing? You love Alice in Wonderland, yeah, because why she’s having these conversations with unkind, with this self. Yes, which is what you feel like you do all the time.

1:46:37 Yeah, it’s full of oxymorons. It’s like a big small thing, right? All the jokes and puns and things. Yeah, with your mind, and it exactly was that cat doing, and I don’t know what’s going on exactly. It’s exactly that, and like the mock turtle soup with the fob watch, the Mad Hatter’s tea.

1:46:54 Yeah, that for water is created by reducing things by cold, and there’s five stages to it. People wouldn’t know that. There’s too much information, but that I wanted it if you can conveyed that some of that stuff you think, well, how can you reduce? Normally reduce stuff by hot, right? You boil it down in the pan.

1:47:11 You was you said, but, but how can he possibly reduce it by cold? You know that sort of, and this is reality, the perception and reality. You know, and even when she talks about, when she, when she grows, and then she goes down the falls, down the, the the whatever you call the shaft. Yeah, and she’s talking about how God, she was her feet have grown away from her body or bodies growing away. Some of Phaeton, she needs the shoes, and what happens if she loses her shoes?

1:47:40 That she’s going to send the shoes back to her feet, because I feet a so far away, and then how do I address my left shoe? Too much, you know this? this conversation. This is what’s going on in your head. Your hands into the area yeah, yeah, exactly.

1:47:58 And then I, and I have, I just have sometimes I have conversations. I still know think these words just come out of my mouth, but it just seems it seems normal. What happens when these, you know, French chefs on the continent, you know, maybe with a few Michelin stars, look at you and they said, what is this? This Mad Hatter in Bray that started something from nothing, yeah, based on these ideas and obsessions and narratives and craziness. Like, is a make of it?

1:48:26 It’s funny, actually, in there, because before I, I know, unintentionally and then knowingly, think I intimidated people. I had no idea that intimidation was because I challenged, I’d really necessarily challenged the system. I just went for, I follow my own belief. Yeah, and it didn’t fit in. It didn’t fit into what, what you know, is very structured system, and the funny thing is in the last period of, I think we’re in a period of great food gastronomy for the UK.

1:49:07 Now, to Britain, the last period was really the Georgian period, and then that went through a couple of other, a couple of other periods, and the Victorians came along, most powerful Empire in the world in terms of like, there’s ever existed in terms of how much land they, they owned. Measured the crap out of everything, and all the chefs went became French. So the chefs of the palaces and stuff, all the Brit, they discover a little mother French, and it was one of the last things in the 60s after the, after the, you recovered from that, from the, from this, from the war.

1:49:45 Everything sort of artistic wise exploded, from art to filmmaking from music to fashion in Britain. It just booth not food, not food, and I think it because we were such under the control of the, of the Victorian, you know, sounds women. Yeah, women was so controlled by the Victorian Empire that I think that there was a, I’ve read somewhere there was a your age determined the distance between the bottom of your skirt and the top of your feet, really, and it was what you could do and couldn’t do, and I want to do.

1:50:25 I haven’t, I actually, no, I did that when I said good, who’s Tim contacted me after I was in India. So I had mentioned I was reading this book, and one of the emails are sent, and I’m really serious about this, this. Um, I might never make him, but I’m gonna have a bloody good go. I want to create stand up for farting day. Please got to tell me more about this.

1:50:48 Every human being has gas. You have to, if you die, if you don’t, if you don’t let it out somewhere, you’re gonna die. so it’s something we all have to do, but we hold it in, and it’s not healthy to hold in. There’s a time to place. I saw a great talk by the Dalai Lama.

1:51:04 It’s just on a sort of video of it in Melbourne about happiness. Back on, mmm. I can’t imagine the Pope than this, but he says he talks about happiness. This is like when you have wind, you’re on the plane, because of course the pressure on his cabin squashes everything. Yes, did you look at this way, and you like this when there’s no one there, you didn’t do this.

1:51:25 It was acceptable to break wind when up to the Victorian period, and then it became not acceptable. standing up changes through, like, the shape of our gut. Sitting on the toilet is not good for our gut in this in the position it’s in. You need to be more like this. Okay.

1:51:48 You’ll be us and me. I can’t remember the percentage, but the amount of heart attacks that happen on the toner toilet when people are older trying to push. It’s a lot the the the food that’s better for our gut creates more gas. Now, just because you’ve got a lot of gas doesn’t necessarily mean so you’re healthy, but the food is good for it, so whether it’s, it’s fiber and cellulose and resistant starches. It’s good.

1:52:19 The guys down here, you get into works, like getting them to go to the gym, and that activity builds up gas, so it’s actually healthy. Yet we block it. We block it. We pretend we don’t do it. We’re embarrassed about it.

1:52:34 That’s difference between that. Doesn’t mean to say I’m saying everyone should walk around in public breaking one, breaking wind, but one day, the supported day where you could just take something that’s taboo, the every human being has to do. Kids love because they think is hilarious. Slapstick comedy, loves busy fusion, but this still this taboo subject. This also does draw attention to Parkinson’s, type two to type two diabetes, Alzheimer’s, dementia, heart issues, cancer.

1:53:07 It’s all connected, so if you could just have one day or would take things too seriously, so laughter is so healthy, right? Question everything. Christian of Christian, every saw that with your TV shows you were just like goofing and shocking people and getting them to smile and making these big kids again, and I think if you did, you do that, you could get back in for the, the, the from the awesomes foundation, from the, from the Hart Foundation, Cancer Research, and you just write this bit like Mova.

1:53:42 Is it Movember? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do something like that up for Fox. We’re gonna throw it out there. Is you want needs a guru for help with this?

1:53:47 Oh yeah, I’ve sent an email, but I say, you know, back about a couple of things, and I said, look, I do one day want to create stand-up for farting. Might be able to help you with that, and so you were saying you intimidated the industry without knowing it, or you thought you were intimidating. That when I look back at it, right? I, ID not at the time. I didn’t.

1:54:07 It’s like it was only recently, some, some, some pump and scientists have been working with on for years now, and said to me, you know what? You preferably from the, from the crab ice cream days, we started to change the way that the, the science world looked at the census, because it was across the, the cross-modal, you know how the sense, how one sense like sound can influence another sense like taste, but in fact no one really looked at all of them together, and in fact when you talk about the census, you’re interoception does involve what all the senses involved, the microbiome as well, so what I’ve been doing in the last couple of years is just a continuation of what I was doing before, but each time I want to know, as I said, I don’t have the answers to all the questions, but then get back further.

1:54:52 Go forward, go back further before I’ll go back further, then I start to connect. Yeah, before, before we had minerals, we had gases. Before we gases, we had elements. Before when elements did, then you end up there matter, but banging. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve met with several cosmologists, mineralogists, evolutionary geneticists, you know, and before, and I made these connections, this connection bizarrely through food, but as when you think about it, it’s not bizarre, because human beings created maths and physics.

1:55:24 They created all of the beliefs and the theories that front from gravity to, you know, the, the word gravity, the discovering what we call gravity. Still, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a model that works until it’s disproven, and human beings coexist with that food, so in a funny way we’ve taken it for granted. And when I might wax it’s funny. We were working on the music project with the Siemens family, and the Siemens, there’s an area just outside Berlin, about 45 minutes outside Berlin, which is at one point where Einstein, Bohr, Siemens, they were all there.

1:56:04 Okay, and I was sitting in Einstein’s house with James’s Earth, sitting outside. I was sitting at his desk, and my missus sent me a text saying, oh yeah, I’m pregnant, and this other lady took us around his house, and he had some kind of contact with his second wife, or she wouldn’t have to talk to him. Enlist have you? I don’t know how many men could get away with this unless he talked to her first, or she was bringing him food. Okay.

1:56:35 The kitchen was tiny, of the little hatch. No food would never food, never made a rock, never came into any of these equations, and when we look at what we can do in the kitchen again. Hoover Harare, the beginning of safety, and says, Big Bang is physics, so, so mass or matter, space and time combine. Big Bang physics. Atoms and molecules were produced.

1:57:00 Chemistry, some of these produced organisms. Biology. Some of these organisms formed cultures. History. Foods the only thing you can do that with.

1:57:10 Hmm, it’s the only thing that every subject at school can come under, so I’m involved the GCSE as well. Okay, so fulfilling everything, so you being in food makes more sense now. It makes more sense because, and but it’s what’s become, what fill my head with so many options is the reason why, because it covers everything. If you apply that, take, take vegetables and fruits, you do something to it. You chop it, it mix it, blitz it, heat it.

1:57:35 Physics, that the actual action of doing is physics. Then you produce new flavors and new textures, some, new molecules. It’s chemistry. Then you eat it. It’s biology, and then you have a recipe, or you evolve, and that’s history and geography.

1:57:54 English or language, maths, physics, chemistry, biology, history. It ties, it ties everything together. Yeah, but yet they’re dropping it as GCSEs optional at the moment, cooking, and dropping it. Yeah, right, dropping an early long, and you’re gonna make sure that doesn’t happen. I’m gonna have a bloody good guy, and you say you gonna have some effect on the world, point one percent or one point one percent, you mentioned that earlier, but what do you mean by that?

1:58:23 I just I think we’ve got the opportunity somehow to to reignite or ignite our relationship with food, but it’s really important that if you can do done with humor, we’re done with discovery and curiosity, we awareness of being aware, the potential of a bigger way, and without judgment. Right? No bribery, no shaming, no nothing. I’ve never heard that tone come from you. You, you, you kind of bring people in with your curiosity, and you seduce them with your storytelling.

1:58:59 You’re not the guy that says we shouldn’t be eating that much sugar. No, not, absolutely not. No style, and funnily enough, I might be that guy that’s felt a lot. I had a lot of a feeling of being judged. I’m not saying I was judged, right?

1:59:15 It was a feeling. I think I had a lot of feeling of being judged. I think, you know, again, again, I don’t know how that compares to anyone else’s feeling, but I did have a lot of failure being judged. Okay, which is it, and that affects how you behave to other people, and how does he tell your stories, and so you want to kind of tell this new narrative to the world and get us to embrace food and to eat mindfully and to get it to give its proper respect as a narrative of this culturally.

1:59:40 Yes. I wouldn’t even say so, but it’s actually it’s really respect. it’s the relate using food to this to enhance or expand our relationship with ourselves, so how we can, by being again, curiosity, adventure, playfulness. It’s a bit like being in a sandpit, us boat with you with your mates, and you know, try this. oh, why don’t know.

2:00:11 I’m good if it’s, it’s the stuff. it’s. I hope I’m reverse engineering my life. I think that’s what that’s, that’s one way of explaining it over, but layers of people, all of these layers, these protective layers as we get older, right? And I think a lot of people never get to the, the, the realization that they can remove them all.

2:00:37 They might want to, and then that’s their choice, but they can remove them all, and as you remove it’s a bit like if you heard of the eternal or immortal jellyfish. Mmm. There’s a jellyfish doesn’t die, that never dies, and I can’t remember it’s Latin there now, but it’s a cycle. If he gets eaten, it’s about this big. If you get it seasoned, it’ll die obviously, however, it gets just about near death, end of its life, and then it does a Benjamin Button, goes back to the beginning, and it does this circle, and they’re doing a lot of a lot of research on it now.

2:01:13 Just, it expands, contracts, expands, contracts, expands, contracts. I wish I could maybe you are doing that right in front of my Buffy. and and what’s the future of food? Like you mentioned personalization earlier, but what do you see in the next out of the ten years? I’ve actually just booked a table at the Fat Duck for October 30th.

2:01:33 I’m gonna take my wife, but I hear it’s more personal. Yes, yes, and we’d still be working progress. Okay, so, so I mentioned before Plato. We talked about an objective and subjective universe. I think I referenced my telephone.

2:01:47 The telephone is just a telephone, an amazing piece of kit, but my relationship with it is my subject of universe, so the fact that, let’s think of the fact that’s objective universe as a one course or the menu, so let’s have sound of the sea, so it looks like sand, looks like the things have been washed up on the shore, seafood. Then you get on a glass plate with actual sand underneath, and then you have a conch seashell with this little nano iPod in them, headphones go in, and you listen to the sound. The sea, so that, that sound.

2:02:24 This is the thing that sparked it off, in fact, for me, about the personalization. So the objective universe is of that dish, is the plate, what’s on the plate, the shell, and what’s in the sound. The subjects of the universe is the individual’s relationship with it, so it in fact, what I found that it did rather than cutting off from interaction, you’re sitting without speaking, you’re listening to the same thing you were eating, the same thing, and people’s reactions.

2:02:53 Someone said, I loved, I was back in so-and-so than I was, and I was in Boston, and then somebody else had turned the plate. We put it this way. They turned it this way, horizontal, because they, their memory was sitting on a beach. Who realized actually everyone’s, so your, your, it depends on your particular memory. You might have different memories at different times when you, depending on what else you’re experiencing at the time or how your day went when you come to the, to the duck.

2:03:22 You’ll have em. Right now you’ll have a memory of a sea sighting there. Yours could be, it could be waves crashing, it could be raining with the seagull. It could be sunny, lapping up on a, you know, on a tropical island. It could have a motorboat in the background.

2:03:35 It could be a form. there could be kids laughing, the wind could be coming from your left, the wind could be coming from your right, so it’s trying to find the nudge. It’s a bit like the magnifying glass, and this is, this is the, the thing that’s taken a lot long time and still a work in progress. Minard. I went once, and they got onto the duck, and they got, they, they did it brilliantly there.

2:03:59 They did a mini Cornish pasty because the menu is, know me, recording a day’s holiday as a kid that goes from morning to night. it’s a map. It’s a man use a map with a magnifying glass, right? Yeah, please go to the website, and you could see it, and as you look into it you see the adventure. Exactly, yes.

2:04:14 Ago. I mean, the idea it starts so the anchor is a day’s holiday, and each course is sort of meant for its, my memory. Some is his accent is real, and I’ve got what I, what I remember, and someone is, it may not memory. That doesn’t really matter. It’s designed as a catalyst, so if you’ve got a good four people in the table, then it starts saying like cereal, put a pet, old little variety pack of cereal.

2:04:38 Oh god, I remember that. Yes, everyone will have their own, my memories are our memories, so whilst the objective universe is the same because it’s the cereal packets, for example, or it’s the sound of the sea with us with, with the, so our subjective universe, a relationship with that is different. So if you could tap into personalizing how on earth do they know that? How do they, you know, if just need to do it once, one time, family table, right? Cuz and I hear you’re doing that as well.

2:05:11 Yes, people are being very, very hard to push that through because everyone. I first realized it. I remember talking to my chef at the time, and looking at his face, looking back at me, and thinking, hmm, that’s not the face I’d expected because it’s not very scalable, and there’s a ton of work trying to give a personalized moment to every single diner that comes through, based on you having to somehow investigate their history. Yeah, and find something. Yes, yes, but they’ll probably never forget that the rest of their life.

2:05:43 No, and I, what you want to deliver. I want to show people the beauty of being a human, like that. What you want to give pedia would be to being a human. Yes, the beauty of being a human, and it’s in everyone, it’s in. I remember the reading, do you know him?

2:05:59 I thought, if he’s been on here or not. Matthew Sides. No, no, I know the name though. He wrote David Beckham’s, by over, to use a sports journalist, and he wrote a book called Black Box Thinking and a book called Bounce. Okay, and it’s a great book.

2:06:14 Bouncer. He is his whole approaches of this, because natural-born genius doesn’t exist. It depends on a whole load of things. You know how much you’ve driven, finding a belief, circumstances, all of these things, and when he could bet again, to example, some Tiger was to Mozart, from the Williams sisters, to, to a chess player. When you start bidding into it, you know there is no substitute.

2:06:39 The Malcolm Gladwell’s come in about 10,000 hours. What Matthew Sciences is he he went a bit more at explained for him. He said is 10,000 hours of purposeful practice, right? So you can drive a car for 10,000 hours in your life, but you’re not going to be able to win the Grand Prix, right? So it’s the, it’s the nature, and I’m coming back to the small Fat Duck.

2:07:03 I’m been knowing to me. I was in a tiny little place with no. So I had to force if I, if someone I invested they wouldn’t do so didn’t ever. I was but a lot of money in me and gave me all the state-of-the-art stuff. It wouldn’t have evolved.

2:07:21 I don’t how it would have evolved, but it wouldn’t have evolved in the same way, right? so it was necessity. It was necessity, and that’s like you don’t have to have. I’m not saying people have to have comfort to feel comfort. However, when you do have discomfort or some kind of pain, emotional or physical, because every human being or have that in their life sometimes.

2:07:41 Try and remember that is the potential for pleasure. That’s not the same as feeling you deserve pain or you want pain, but it’s there’s going to be some level of discomfort happening, experienced without that you don’t, where you can have the potential for pleasure but you’re always little. You’ll always have the potential for pleasure from pain. How easy is to, to get to that point, is another kettle of fish, right? and so you’re trying to give someone that incredible experience that’ll just make them think, wow, wow, look at who I am, look how connected I am, look at what this is.

2:08:22 Yeah, I want them to discover it right. You’re, yeah, okay. I want them to come out there, injective, oh my god, awful. I can’t just, and memories you know, that a moment where you have you’ve remembered something that you’ve completely gone into a black hole, and then um it’s, it’s a new memory. It’s a new discovery of an old memory.

2:08:43 Yeah, that’s a great feeling. That’s a great feeling. I had a bit of that today when I was recalling what happened at the fact that that comes back. The good morning, that’s what shocked me. I was like, I remember the waitress saying good morning.

2:08:54 It was at the end of the meal, and I was about to get my bacon any ice cream, and I was just shocked, and I got a little cereal box, and I was like, it’s not morning, or is it the morning? and then I was eating this thing that it didn’t make any sense to me. remember. Yeah, and again, question everything. That just got me thinking, like, what, what am I perceiving?

2:09:13 Is it right? Is it wrong? This is all new to me. Just sure. Yeah, yeah.

2:09:17 And they shouldn’t, and this is the one thing that, which also was an influence on the crab ice cream because it was served the cranberries also, and when I saw the parmesan ice cream recipe that Italy is a very right or wrong food invited culture, and I ducked on a couple of TV programs on this. You know why you you don’t have spaghetti bolognaise. It’s just wrong. Took me a week traveling around Bologna to find out. Eventually I got an answer with ragout.

2:09:50 Bologna. Bolognese comes from up here, and spaghetti comes in Delia. Okay, if you order cappuccino in Italy at lunchtime, yeah, they think you’re crazy. You’re crazy. why.

2:10:03 Either people don’t say they don’t know, or someone and say, well, because of the milk. Well, you’ll have to, a mystery. What’s the difference? Mother, then Napolitano sauce without apartment, have knucklebone him, parmesan in a result in a rice or pasta dish with seafood. absolutely.

2:10:26 No, no, because it’s just wrong. Why is it wrong? Somebody wants to do cappuccino at lunchtime, or they want a nest cafe. It’s not wrong. How can you tell them that?

2:10:36 They because they come out to the ice cream, cuz I love it. Well, who am I to tell you, you don’t owe them that. That I’m now owning your emotion. I’m telling you what you love. Mum doesn’t always know best, and I try to find out why.

2:10:51 An interesting over, I love. I lived in in Bonds, and there’s a restaurant, and my favorite restaurants, mmm, in London is Riva, and it’s Andrea. It’s very. You can go in there, could be relaxed, paper, paper tape. I was very, very Italian, beautiful, and just relaxed, like being, being in somebody’s house, and I sit around, rested.

2:11:16 I said, why he, why is he telling food concert like this? He said he thinks it’s a really. I thought it’s a very good point. He thinks it’s the relationship, at the relationship between the mother and the son, in the Italian conscious. Mum knows best, and this is she told this is right.

2:11:33 She owns the kitchen, so we do it this way, and you always respected the mother. He probably goes back to the Bible somehow. Good. Absolutely, exactly. Okay, that dominates the entire way a cut culture eats and lives.

2:11:46 Yeah, because the food. Yeah, just the philosophy. Yes, and interesting enough, I was at the V&A yesterday because I got, I did the project of making cheese. I made it. It was my Mac bacteria.

2:11:56 Where did the bacteria come from? Heston burst my genitals and my and my nostrils. Of course, it, they resisted. There is no evolutionary story behind that, so we started a bit of work with the Garvan Institute, the Garvan Institute in Melbourne, which is DNA testing. They did a lot of research on cancer.

2:12:14 Okay, they were down there with the verbs break, and yes, for six months, and I noticed we’ve talked, discussing something, and I made a connection between the, between if everything’s spinning like Earth, and so our body, the same thing. There’s not left and right side of the brain. It just goes left, right, right, left. it’s continuing all the way down, so even with the physio, if you want to, you know, you work on, you’ve a problem down on this leg, quite often it starts off on up.

2:12:41 Here. Yeah, and everything is, everything is doing this, and these to do with, there’s a lot of connections I found between these, and between these, so I thought, well, I’m wrong, and I might as well, I’ll do my nostrils, cuz her sense of smell, and they’re connected, so I’ll do. I’ve got a photograph of it. I saw it yesterday for the first time. It’s in the fridge, so it’s a bit Beaufort, and this is she’s made from the bacteria of her nose and your genitals, those needles, but it on there.

2:13:12 There was an artist that had done it. Had done a Korean lady had done. She made it an installation of like a setup for extracting stuff, but it was talked about mums, and when mums make the connect, this is the connection between bacteria and emotion, the microbes and emotion. If you make something with love, that’s an energy, and that’s a vibration, and that would also affect the micros, both inside your body, on your skin, and so when you touch even like sourdough bread, or when you touch the food, the connection between this have got brain gut brain, the emotion and the microbes, for example, they’re so linked.

2:13:59 You can you pass that on through food, and if you look at the Chinese overmaster stock, where they keep a little bit of the stock behind to make the next batch. So this stock, some of it can be two hundred years old, three hundred years old. It just continually gets balled up, right, and the same with bread, and if you think about where religion came from, a lot of this stuff. I believe in the belief of religion, but I don’t believe in religion. I’m not really just, but I believe in the belief of it, right?

2:14:23 Okay, and these stories were written over thousands and thousands of years, so we should be standing on the shoulders of giants, you know, going back and looking. There’s a reason why. Yeah, these things evolved in the way they. John Peterson there says those stories are part of our DNA. The part, they’re absolutely part of our DNA, right?

2:14:41 The Bible, as again, Ravel murari says he’s about the domestication of animals is one of the big central strings in the in the Bible, and I, my, my god mother died with bad teas. again was in the Church of my mom. It was, she was being cremated, and there’s that looking at the Lord’s Prayer now. I couldn’t even, I think maybe just about recited, but I couldn’t recite in me the church for a very long time indeed, and I looked at her, thought she was a poem.

2:15:15 I thought, oh my god, if you change one words in the Lord’s Prayer changes everything. Us deliver us from evil, change to deliver me, you become your own God. Hmm, deliver me, for me, for you’re talking to yourself like Alice in Wonderland. don’t, don’t do to others who you wouldn’t want to do yourself. Don’t, don’t, don’t be evil, but if you are, don’t beat yourself up too much.

2:15:41 Eat bread every day, you know, it’s, it makes. If you look at it like that, God is. God is an imagined thing. a God to one person is not the same as it got to another, so if you become, you’re in God. Deliver me from evil, you turn, you turn the laws prone to something that kind of makes sense.

2:16:01 You don’t, some people, people that I thought I was agnostic, and then when I became agnostic, I realized I was atheist, but I wasn’t aware of it, and now I go locally to me. I have got a mountain bike with a yeah, I could see that change that to Bob, or really, yeah, came off. I came off. Oh, so on the plateau behind the rocks, 150 shape with a shepherd. I felt like I’ve gone back into quite low, back in time, and I cycled softly, and that’s my sheep, where the little bells ringing, and they gradually moved aside, and it was beautiful.

2:16:40 Her Sun was setting. It’s in this lucky, the in a, in a, in a nun on the planet. No one else have won the shepherd to shape, the sun, the mountains, the trees, olive trees, and conifers. I can’t laugh. Doesn’t get much better than this.

2:16:52 I’m cycling and then I, as I cycled off about 200 meters later, these two were bored, just ran out of the trees, and I happened to be like here, as they, and they turned to me, turn towards me. Now I don’t know if they were trying to run away, but they turned towards me, and there, they, they had horns. I want to say they’ve this big, but they were probably about that big. It’s still nasty little guy. Oh my god, so I lived it, and they just ran the other side of third as I breathe.

2:17:21 Oh, ah, I don’t hit. I hit a tree stump, and this was okay, but it was like that, and the, the went like that. I had a helmet on. I bought some shoulder pads, but I didn’t wear them. Okay, and I went flying, and, and did that, but there’s a little monitor, see, Edition here somewhere.

2:17:40 Okay. yes, well, I suppose it’s better to eat the balls than beaten by them, and there’s a beautiful little monastery. I see it. It sits about this, twice the size of this room promised our farmhouse. Okay, and a friend of miners have been meditating for years, so try if you found a little chapel, try meditating it, because it might, for hundreds of years, of belief energy in the, in the, in the rock, so it’s got choir sort of matting.

2:18:16 It’s not of candle in there, so just I go in there quite often and just sit and just sit and meditate. I can hear the frequency from there’s nothing in it. It’s not light here. You can hear the noise of the electrical stuff. This is just stone, but it’s a high.

2:18:32 There’s a high-pitched noise, pretty thick walls now. come out. I walk out of this. I’m probably only dig 10, 15, 20 minutes, but you’re sentient for really easy to drop in, drop into it, right? There’s something to these, these physical, geographic, religious, locations, there’s something there.

2:18:51 There’s something, and then once you can become comfortable, because I think a lot of people, I burn. I, when I was atheist but didn’t realize I was. I see is I think a poly. There’s I felt challenged my religion. Yeah, yeah, because you bring a lot of baggage.

2:19:05 Again, your subjective experience does that place, but you don’t have to bring that. You can just treat it, know, as what it is, which is something that. Yeah, it’s not. Yes, and then you can enjoy the architecture. Yeah, enjoy the feeling of the space.

2:19:18 You can even maybe listen, enjoy something, listening to parts of the Bible, energy, thinking I was interesting. Shepherds are wise men, worshipers, wise men. Hmm, and look at the of question marks there. You go. Yeah, I’ve had a guy named Dr. Rupert Sheldrake here.

2:19:34 Oh, so he’s daughter. Okay, you know the music project I was talking about? Rupert Sheldrake’s daughter, we were clear the guy called done Peter white gold, who was professor music at Brunel University. Okay, daughter was gonna be part of this project. Okay, and yeah, he’s at a TED talk with bare feet.

2:19:53 It’s a great one about the dogma of, you know, beliefs, that nonsense. Yeah, and he also has a new book out, well, a couple new books. One is like science and spiritual practices, and he deconstructs all the spiritual practices that come with the religion, and he says, look at how wonderful they are, that they don’t have to have the religious component in there, so whether it’s congregation, pilgrimage, singing, all these things, yet we did to become better humans.

2:20:17 We threw the whole baby out with the bathwater, because we’re like, I don’t believe in the religion, but exactly, the spaces, the rituals, everything, like she’s saying, grace, gratitude. Yeah, exactly, before a meal. Yes, before a meal, and there was a guy dedicated, a guy called Cleve Backster, and he was a hypnotist that then a lot working for the FBI in the six, and the Cleve Backster state world center for lie-detector machines in San Diego was named after him.

2:20:48 Okay, and in 66, I think it was, he wired his lie detector polygraph machine up to a plant, and when he walked in the room, there was a little bit of a spike. It there was a movement. Was energy in there, and he said it was weird, as if he wrote this, as if the, as if the plant sensed some other living thing coming into the room. Okay, so then he tried to take the leaf and dipped in hot water. Nothing, and he was the other end of his lab, and he thought about burning belief.

2:21:18 Okay, and he thought about burning the leaf, was spiked, so he wrote about this, and then he started worrying it up to all sorts of other things, foods, and he wired up you’ve got the saliva of an astronaut who’s probably dead now. This is twenty, thirty years ago. put his saliva there, synchronized watches, and he went to flew to Cleveland from where they were, and to see his son, and he got two spikes. He thought that the saliva was good, active for maybe ten hours.

2:21:49 He got two spikes, and then when they extinct remised watches, it was both, one when he nearly missed his plane, and secondly, his son had, he was okay, but he had a curly, had an accident. Okay, so his saliva, that’s continent, his saliva was communicating, and what happens is, even if to look at in the into a pumping, underwater, the swimming pool, zoom in, slowed it down, the water comes up, it splits when a water droplet. Do you see a slow-motion water droplet?

2:22:18 It bounces, bends around it, and space-time, you can see the bend of time around a drop of water. It splits, and that goes down, then that’s gone in the water, and that we carry. Hmm, and it happens again, or smoke continued on a small level, but then everything, that everything’s connected, right? So he then, he then did this test in Faraday cages, and he found that when you gave, and it’s not words, more its intent. so if you give gratitude, so you think about, like the raisin coming back to the raisin thing again, give gratitude to what you’re eating, and somebody’s devoted their time to produce histor, though the deter, the food is a living, seems to accept you, you know, it’s provided, it’s achieved something in its life, and now that’s a human interpretation of what it is, but the connection, the connection.

2:23:14 Whoops, and they did this. They said the program I saw goes to the MythBusters, trying to show they didn’t work, but what this point of this was, that also if the intent to believe something, if the intent is strong enough, so all scientific research, these always intent to disprove, but you need the intent to disprove and the intent to prove at the same time, come that’s quantum, two different. You need both, if you just give it the intent, do this pretty well.

2:23:43 Then what about the other side? Okay, interesting, then it affects the observer. it affects the reservation, and, and in Muto that we spoke about, only about the watering and water crystals. He did a rice experiment, three kilo jars, water, rice, same batch of rice, or just make sure that you mix it up with them separate to three, and every morning you give gratitude to one rice, you give anger or your useless stupid to another, and you ignore their, the other one, and after I think it’s one to two months, the rice that you give gratitude to goes a golden color.

2:24:16 The other two goes somewhere. It’s in black and green, and this again, it’s in its vibration, so an energy, emotion is emotion, and your knowing that I remember in the kitchen, you only one person to sulk, and then things go wrong. It’s like a, yeah, and it seems to transfer love really, really effectively. It does. I think it does.

2:24:38 I mean, I think even most people would just say, yeah, they can totally know food, maybe we can get food, not yes, and you know that from the kitchen. Yeah, you might know, you know, necessarily realize it, but if you really enjoy something, the chances are, yeah, there’s more love the gone into it. Yeah, yeah. what, what are you doing in ten years from now? What, what is your day look like?

2:24:57 What kind of stuff are you doing, and what kind of things are you not doing? Uh, you’re gonna be in the lab until you die, aren’t you? Yeah, I’m good. I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be putting things in my mouth and closing my line, standing on a leg, and listening to one after, and listening to the other air, and then hanging upside down and doing that until I die. Okay, and what about ten years now?

2:25:23 What do you think you’ll be? What kind of things will you be doing? I don’t know. I, I know that I know I’ve got more ambition than I’ve ever had before, but I’m going back a bit like the immortal jellyfish. I’m going back, so I’m going back to water, to the beginning, in the kitchen.

2:25:45 It’s the thing that it’s the thing that you can’t do anything without water. Nothing, it doesn’t exist. Well, I know that if you talk about this, I good. Okay, to talk about, you know, I Vedic approach, which is the five elements, but water. Everything needs water, including fire and in the kitchen, it’s the basis for everything, but there’s, it might be the water that’s contained in a fish already or the water you put in a stock or in a soup.

2:26:20 And light with the mindful sandwich with planets that would do these seven soups. They’re also going to look at seven colors of the rainbow. Okay, seven days of the week, seven chakras, seven point five actually. So take the Snow White in the seven doors, just like the Bible. 7.5 mm.

2:26:38 The point five is a reflection, so if you get, if you get pure light, and sign it into a prism, you get seven. Okay, and then you get reflection. Okay, just like a New Scientist couple of weeks ago, James outside laughs, and miss it’s like they’re following you around. There’s an infinite number of big bangs and black holes, reflection, because a mirror reflects only, reverses one plane. If you do that, you’ll see you’re on going that way in a mirror.

2:27:09 If you do that, you see you’re going that way, but if you do that, it comes back, and that, that reflection can, can be connected to, to like Monday to Sunday. You start again. It’s like an octave. An octave also, put two question marks together, get two hearts upside down. You end up with an octaver, which is not quite eight.

2:27:30 Okay, comes back. It comes back in itself, and this, I’m chucking loads of stuff out. You hear this coming back to some of these basics. That’s what you’re doing. yes, so doing, doing that, stayin, studying water is just about the most complex.

2:27:49 I’m, it’s not a single ingredient, but just about the most complex single thing that we that we know that we don’t know. We just don’t know what it is. Yeah, it has, I think, 7080 unique properties, and I spoke, shouldn’t float, and I spoke with a thousand dead people, and it shouldn’t float, and there’s a guy called Jerry, who, who’s been them some time with him in France, who’s done a couple, couple of TED talks, actually, on the fourth phase of water.

2:28:21 In fact, what I think has an infinite number of phases, so you have gas, you have ice, you have liquid, but that liquid changes its structure, and what Jerry says, this waters not H2O, it’s a ch3 2 or H 2 3 oh, and it does this. So if you can activate water with minerals, you can activate water with residents, like human, if shuen frequencies, the magnetic, magnetic field that goes on the earth, so you’re going to be studying the water as it’s, it’s studying water, and then moving on from, so and pH levels, how that, if what this different textures, like. So basically, I suppose in a nutshell, I wouldn’t put myself in the same breath as Charles Darwin, but let’s take what Charles Darwin did, the evolution, he got from observing without distraction.

2:29:16 In an incredibly extreme way and produced. I mean, unbelievable, unbelievable, but that’s again the he. What human beings can do. He observed. So I’m sort of playing, educating a bit of a little, just if I get a get a smidgen of of fairy dust from Charles Darwin.

2:29:35 I’m doing that with inside my wanted to the inside my body. Okay, so it’s looking at my internal universe, but add you, if I could swallow a camera. I had an idea. This is this is a. He doesn’t even Attenborough, who I know.

2:29:51 I’ve met him a few times, but I had this idea, and it was, it never go anywhere but him. I swallow a camera and go, remember that film? There’s an old Donald Pleasence, I was film where they, they go in a spaceship. Yeah, inside someone. Yeah, and I, I started diving.

2:30:07 I looked at my scuba license and poem Patti the coral. It’s just like the gut. If you look at the way it moves around that this, this universe in here exists. It exists out and in. It’s a bit like the chloroplasts swallowing the sign of bacteria, so you might go and do the camera inside of you.

2:30:30 It’s it, yes, yes. yeah, SNL. They should be standing up for farting. After I have that cash that goes through that we covered so much stuff today. It’s good.

2:30:39 You know, I always try to finish up with it, with a few final questions. You know, if you could pick up a magic phone and call the 20 year old Heston and give that young man a bit of advice at this point you’ve probably had and started the restaurant, but you had been obsessed with food based on everything you know now, what would you tell him? same note. Best advice you’ve ever received could have come in the kitchen, although I’m guessing you didn’t get much there from a parent, from a mentor, or, or maybe from somewhere else, the universe, but best advice you ever received?

2:31:33 Oh god, I was going to jokingly say don’t drink yellow snow, but well, then they think that would apply to me. Best advice, best advice, best advice. I’ve had some really good advice that’s taken me a while. does that mean best advice that I immediately just listen to as well? No, okay, um, but it could be.

2:32:00 I think I mean, I’m one of them was sleep on it, so very, my levels of patience, as mentioned, that they’ve got, they’ve and instead of working progress. Yeah, well, they’ve got better and better as my time started to expand, like stretching out by Remenham. I have PR lady said to me Monica. She said this is like, I’m totally. I used to finish work, go back.

2:32:29 I’d have the C folds, which of the paper towels in the kitchen doing service to them. Oh, and another thing, I’d write these are stuff from in my pocket, so my pockets be bulging with C faults, then I get back home, and I’ll take them all out, just a bit, emails, emails, and she said she got an email for me once about 3 o’clock in the morning, and then another one at half past five saying I haven’t heard from you. I haven’t heard, do you get my email? Secret, joking.

2:33:00 You are joking, she said. No. It’s amazing how again, our realities change about how some are and move. We can be depending on our circumstances, and how you know, I was going to say how far removed from ourselves we can be, but how what is what is herself? Sorry, I’d say that sleeping on it, and by that I mean giving something more time, being able to observe it, and also the importance of sleep, right?

2:33:39 So that I suppose that would be that would be, but I didn’t certainly didn’t heed to that for several years, for many many years, for many years, slow down. And that final part of that question is to that 20 year old that’s listening to us right now. Best advice to give to them, and maybe it’s about their life or their relationship with food or awareness. What do you try to tell the mo general? if I then that 20 year olds that 20 or me, which is still in the pursuit of when I had that experience that 15 in France, this one I don’t know, on a cook.

2:34:19 In fact, I realize I was driven by the there were the emotions and the senses, of the senses, the memory of him, awareness, and emotions. I was still on. I was on the human doing, the physical cooking. now I realized it was actually eating what I cook, what I and others cooked, but my relationship on my awareness with the relationship with the food I was eating. So I would probably tell myself, you know, that because I was, when let’s say about the first multi-sensory thing was probably between 95, 97 when it started, and I would have been 30 years old.

2:35:03 They, interesting, because I wonder what happened if I talk to 20 year old me, dad to try and think about your awareness of your relationship with what you eat, and what you taste them, what you feel before more thinking about it during eating and afterwards. How would that change your next 20 years? Yeah, yeah. I don’t know, he’s might not have been the same thing. I’m uh, not be the same thing.

2:35:25 Yeah, that’s why I don’t. I mean, they’re just. I don’t have any regrets. Not saying I won’t date, but I don’t, and, and I would have had many before. Heston, we’re gonna have to have you back on to where we can go even deeper on some of these things.

2:35:42 You just, you, you took the words right out of my mouth. Yeah, we away with so many things we need to cover on the next time. You hear, but uh, look, just thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming and talking about all sorts of things. Um, okay, brilliant.

2:35:55 I loved it, thank you. Yeah, I’ll be on ‘pray October 30th to re-experience this 11 years later, so I’m super excited, and look, the whole team here was excited for you to be here, because it’s a simple mantra, but it’s, it’s meant everything. That whole question everything is where innovation lies, the future, maybe the survival of our species, and yet so much of this world is stacked against that simple statement. Oh, not to the whole education system is about is that correct?

2:36:24 Question what I asked you to question. Yeah. let’s look like everything, and I think that’s why you inspire so many people, and I also think the tone again, you’re trying to get people to change not by the browbeating that you do this, which we’re so used to in social media now, shaming, the victimizing. You’re like, no, let me take you on this fantastic adventure where we get to reconnect with our food and our stories and our histories, and why don’t you come with me?

2:36:47 And I think that’s why honestly everybody loves you. Heston, is why I love you. Thank you very much. So fantastic, and I, yes, I want eylem. I will.

2:36:58 I would love to go deeper. Okay, well then let’s do that sometime. Yeah, yes, okay, yes, fantastic. Us, and thank you for everything you do. Thanks for coming on and let’s do this again this year.

2:37:13 Oh definitely, okay, definitely. All, thanks so much. Thank you.