Clay O'Shea - Mama Said Knock You Out

Full transcript: Clay O’Shea on London Real

0:00 Hello and welcome to London Real. My name is Brian Rose. With me is my partner in crime, Mr. Nick Gabriel. And Nick, who did you bring in today? Oh dear, we are in for such a treat today.

0:26 This is, I can say unreservedly, this is one of the coolest guys I know. No pressure. His name is Clay O’Shea. And when I started working in a jujitsu gym about eight, nine years ago when I first arrived in this country clay was running a boxing gym within the facility and I know yeah I was used to hear him in there yeah exactly the doors the doors always close right yeah yeah yeah yeah you still do it yeah not as much as I used to but yeah Nick give me a purple belt for some reason don’t know why powerful so just a little a little bit of about clay for those of you are interested clay is originally we was originally a boxer you fought for the British title I eliminated for the British title, eliminated for the British title, I’ve gone.

1:13 When was that? What year was that? It wasn’t that good. That was back in 1995. Ninety-five, okay.

1:18 Many years ago. I fought for a title called the Southern Area title, and the winner got to fight for the British title, and the guy who beat me went on to win a British title and fight for a European title. Wow. Yeah, I wasn’t in that league, which I found out, like, you know? It’s all different leagues in any sport.

1:39 Okay. I mean, leek is in like level of skill. Yeah, yeah. It all depends what draw you’re in, you know, and the guy I fought was a couple of draws above me and he went on to fight for the championship and won it and he moved on and I didn’t. Okay.

1:56 Yeah. And did you box after that? No, that was my last fight. I was already, I was finished sitting in the dressing room downstairs before the fight really. Really?

2:08 Can you explain that well it’s weird because the dressing room my dad always told me it’s the loneliest place in the world if you’re a loser you know and he was right his words come true you know I trained for the fire I think I’m not making that excuse you because so many people make excuses I don’t want to I don’t want to do that I just want to tell the truth but as hard as I trained I just couldn’t get fit mark my my train was on his deathbed he died two weeks later my trainer, so I trained on my own for that fight. I had no trainer and even running at four in the morning hard, I just was tired, I couldn’t get fit for some reason. It’s funny because the two fights before that I was in great shape and for this one I never clicked and I remember the night before the fight I was doing some jogging just to get the cobwebs out and I’d already lost it like you know. It’s interesting you could tell already that the fitness wasn’t there. Well I knew the guy I was fighting was very good as well and tell you the truth I wasn’t meant to be that champion I wasn’t meant to I didn’t believe I didn’t believe and if you don’t believe then that’s you know that’s a few rounds against you I never really believed in myself you know as a fighter Nick said something to me recently about that Because you’ve competed in a lot of places, and you said it’s all mental when it comes to him.

3:34 And it’s all mental. It’s all mental. There’s something I said to, I remember it was before jujitsu competition once, and it was a mutual friend of Clay’s and a guy called Steve. We were both in the warm-up area, which was like a bunch of mats behind where the spectators were sitting. And I just looked at him, and I could see he was going through the same thing I was going through and I said to him, it’s a feeling only a fighter can know, dude.

4:04 No one else can know that feeling. It’s the loneliest place in the world. It’s the loneliest place in the world.

4:13 An old friend of my dad said a fighter who’s got no self-belief is like a carpenter who’s allergic to sawdust, mate. It’s never gonna work. And I never believed in myself. I was a decent boxer. Why do you think that is though, when you say you never believe in yourself?

4:30 I can remember from a young kid when I started boxing at seven years old, I had a little bit of talent, you know, I had a bit of rhythm going for me, I could box a bit, I had a good jab, and all I ever wanted to do was please my dad. That’s the truth, I only ever wanted to please my dad. And that’s why you boxed, or did a lot of things. There’s a massive, massive part of it, and I don’t hold that against my dad, you know, I don’t, because I used to love to please my dad.

4:59 I remember when I turned pro, I was pro with Mickey Dauphin man, seeing a lot of big, like the top boys in the game. And, you know, all the American fight used to come over cause I was trained with all the greatest athletes and that. And none of them mattered. It was just my dad I wanted to please. And I felt it was the closest thing I ever felt.

5:20 It was, it was love. You know what I mean? Pleasing my dad was love for me. And he died, and he died in 1990. And I kept fighting, but.

5:32 What motivated you was just gone, right? The fire was gone? I had no motivation whatsoever. You know, I really didn’t understand why I was doing it. And there’s some things in life we do, we just don’t know why.

5:43 Yeah, I think so. Something that, I don’t know if we spoke about this before. I think we did once, Brian, but, like my whole life as well, for a long time, for the longest time it was everything was to try to get my dad’s approval and the funniest thing is um by the time he was ready to give it to me i didn’t want it anymore wow it was the craziest thing dude is the craziest thing yeah do you think you can be a competitive fighter when you’re trying to do it for the wrong reasons or do you think you can be a champion if that champion always wanted to do it for his father personally i feel some of a some of us are blessed with more talent than others okay you know there’s a guy who’s a spy called curtain and lang called the gifted one and he used to train on a bottle of whiskey. That’s what he used to train on and he used to smoke like joints like they were going out of fashion. He was a Jamaican guy and he beat Roberto Duran back in the 80s and Roberto Duran arguably one of the greatest fighters of all time. But he had that much talent where he did become a champion.

6:44 I wasn’t, I didn’t have that much talent you know so some people can become, but some people are more blessed than others with skill. You know, all different sorts of skills, but in boxing, even if you don’t really want it, you might just add that much talent that you can see you through. You can do it. You know, Oscar De La Hoya came out recently after he had those pictures that he took with all these prostitutes where he was dressed up in their clothes, and it turns out he had a huge cocaine habit and a drinking habit.

7:13 He said it was times he would do a shot of tequila before he went to the ring. Wow, just calm his nerves. This is a professional athlete and nobody knew except his wife and he was the golden boy Yeah, I mean he was the golden boy the perfect boy the everything boy and then these American boy Well now these pictures came out of him like dressed up in underwear And he’s like all those have been photoshopped and then apparently he was paying millions of dollars to these Prostitutes that he had hung out with that night to keep them quiet two years later He came out and said it’s true. I’d taken all these pictures and you’re like a professional athlete. You’d never believe it Yeah, I wonder why I have a few theories on it But like you see so many fighters in all like combat disciplines like they have an appetite for self-destruction Hey, I mean interesting thing a good fighter or just like you see even a good comedian You say that there’s some something wrong you look at their childhood very rarely did they have a normal childhood usually something happened Or they’re they’re they’re searching for something or trying to please someone or trying to fill a gap or even performers I mean look at people like there’s always a reason there’s always there is right. There’s always a reason mine was pleased in my dad I just you know now I mean he’s been he’s been dead 20 22 years I’m you know I’m 45 years old now, and I only feel that I’ve just grown up at 45. I really do and

8:27 Well I was starting to grow up. Did you still want to please him after he died? I mean was it could you get your dad can see this and just for him I’m just figuring out our relationship right now what we had you know I was 23 when he died and You know like most those young men at 23. You don’t really Well, I didn’t want to listen to my dad, I didn’t want to listen to my mum, you know? And I’m old enough and ugly enough now to realise that I want to listen to them, and all the things they said to me, most of them are true.

8:59 Interesting. You know? Interesting. You know, it’s interesting that you’re actually trying to deal with this and recognise this because it’s something that Nick talks about all the time, and I think a lot of people are just going through their life without looking, reflecting on themselves and thinking, why am I doing this? Or is it based on a relationship with a parent?

9:15 Mark Twain quote, when I was 14, my dad was so ignorant, I couldn’t stand to have him around, but when I turned 21, I was astonished to learn, to see how much he had learned in seven years. That’s one of my favorites. And yeah. That’s pretty good. You know, I was talking to my dad actually recently and I am lucky that he’s eight hours away in California and I can pick up the phone to him.

9:37 And I do recognize how lucky I am that I can just have a conversation with him because I know I won’t always be able to, but he said something about Nick And he really, what he likes about Nick is that he’s like, here’s a man who’s 32, but who’s questioning all sorts of things about his life. You know, he’s looking at, okay, wait, is there a better way? Or should I be thinking of it this way? Or is this because of that? And he’s, he just found that interesting because a lot of people don’t look at themselves or look at their relationships with their parents and try to figure out why they did what they did.

10:05 So I- I think in life, one of the most important things is honesty and the person you’ve got to be honest with is yourself, because you can be honest with people. We lie to ourselves so much, and until we stop lying about the things that we usually sweep under the carpet and deal with them, we’ll always be frustrated, I think. Me, this is only my personal opinion. I can only say from my life. Is there anything that you lied to yourself about or that you have lied to yourself about in the past that you could share with us and like an example that you could give to us, that you’d be comfortable sharing with us?

10:38 And how did you realize that too? Well, kind of, maybe like Nick, I’m on a self-improvement mission now, like, you know? And I just do it on a day-to-day basis. For instance, right, I had a really rocky relationship with my mum. My mum was and is the most amazing woman.

11:00 But hard, hard love, she showed me, hard. Everything was, you know, if I took drugs, you know, I went for a peer when I took drugs for three years, like most, not most children, a lot of children. I was living on a council estate, I was running with a gang, and the next thing I found myself doing was smoking weed. Instead of my mum sitting me down, she said I was bad. You’re bad. It was like everything, you’re bad this, you’re bad that, but I realised that my mum had a really hard upbringing. I think her parents were really hard on her, so she was only relaying to me what they relate to her. So I got it in the neck for everything, which I’m really interested in now. My mum’s got Alzheimer’s dementia and she’s been diagnosed for the last two years and I can quite honestly say that everything I ever prayed for I have with my mum now even though she’s so ill because all the barriers have been broken down. It’s just the most beautiful, it’s supernatural. When I look back because I didn’t know nothing about Simon’s you know I’m not that clever and she started doing crazy stuff and I thought she was just being horrible to me as not as usual but some of the stuff she was doing it was kind of like mum’s doing it again mum’s doing it again but then she started you know I think the first time I noticed that something was really wrong she I told her to close my window at a car and I went back out and the wind it wasn’t an electric window it was a winding

12:36 And it was broken and then I bought her a Dyson Hoover and there was stuff stuck up the Hoover that was just crazy And I thought why are you doing this to me mum? Why would you you know, why would you ruin something beautiful that I bought you? But I didn’t know she was became starting to become ill and she started to become ill now when I look at when my dad died Cuz they were so close You know when you share a bed with someone for 40 years, you know, she never went a bed again She slept on the set a light, you know since the day he died She never went a bed again and that’s over 20 years ago. Yeah Yeah, she got lonely and she’d become withdrawn into herself, you know?

13:09 How close, I mean, were they super close, your mum and dad? I only, if one day, hopefully, if my marriage is half as good as theirs, mate, I’ll be a happy man. You know, I was brought up, you know, my mum was hard loved, but I’ve got no bad memories there, mate. I’ve got no, me personally, my mum would have died for me and she would still die for me. And my dad was just, just an angel.

13:32 Just an angel. used to say to him about my dad, it’s hard living with an angel because he was an angel he, you know, he died from cancer, esophagus, a terrible painful death. But anyway, what’s its dementia like right now with your mom? I mean, does she know who you are? Yeah, she, she knows who I am. Okay. Um, I just watched The Iron Lady recently. And there’s a lot of dementia in her Margaret Thatcher.

13:56 A matter of fact, half the movie, she’s demented, and she’s doing flashbacks, but, But she seems to know certain things and not know certain things like she sees her husband that’s dead But she kind of knows that he’s not there too. So it’s a weird thing I was wondering if you could explain. What I’ve learned about Diamentia Diamentia Alzheimer’s because most of the people on my mum because she’s in a home now. She can’t go home She’s too unwell to go home. So it’s too dangerous because the house we grew up in it’s got free slot for three levels you know four flights of stairs and and it’s a death trap, you know, and the gas she leaves on and stuff like that.

14:31 So, and she was dying on the set E, really. She wanted to die two years ago. She had gastric enteritis, she had gallstones, she had blood poisoning, she had urine infection, and she didn’t want no doctors to come and see her. She wanted to die, she’d give up. And because my mum had a lot of power over me and my sister, we didn’t know how to deal with it, you know, we did not know.

14:53 Anyway, in the end, we called the paramedics. is the only thing that saved her. And that night in hospital, I thought I was talking to Mum for the last time, but I prayed so hard, like I’ve never prayed before. And nine weeks later, she come through it. She come through it, mate.

15:09 And now what is it like when you deal with her? Well, for the first year in her home, not so much it was war, because for instance, if someone’s got dementia, and remember this, right, more importantly, there’s a good chance it’s in the post for all of us. Yeah. We’re all young and in our prime and we’re feeling good, but there’s a good chance it could be for all of us. So I’m dealing with it in a way that there’s a good chance that one day I’ll be sitting out in this home.

15:42 It’s just reality and reality hurts sometimes. You’ve got to look for the future, but you have to enjoy it every day as it comes, mate, Because these are the good times, I know the good times are to come, but this right now is the good time. Me coming, travelling to this place on the tube, looking around me at the people, they’re the good times, mate, you know, and we’re all searching, we’re all searching for something. But what it is, is here and now, you know.

16:11 Yeah, that’s something Nick talks about a lot, the power of now, and I try to recognise presence all the time when I’m just with some great people doing some great things. Like now, this is a great moment, but as humans in the Western world, we’re always thinking yeah it’s gonna be better next month or next week right when I get this when I get that or you know no you know the people in my mom’s home you know there’s there’s 20 people on on the floor now she’s on the second floor and there 20 of my best friends now you know all these people with dementia are falling in love with them mate you know and before and when I had to go there I was like I can’t take it no more but can I say something this is what I’m trying to the point I’m trying to get to is that they’re so ill and most of the people that are sitting around I look at them and the some of the women you could tell they were just unbelievably beautiful in their day and the guy’s big strong men you know and they’re sitting around rocking in chairs now you know okay messing their self and a year ago it was not mayhem in there but when someone’s dimension mislays something the first thing they’ll do because they get frustrated they blame the other person for stealing it and there’s war okay and everybody’s warring you know the Zimmer frames going up all over the place like you know they’re all rattling around on their Zimmer frames and but let

17:39 Me tell you this right and whether you believe me or not there’s something supernatural happened in that place mate because there’s peace now there’s peace amongst all of them amongst all of them where there was fighting there’s love where there was unfriendship there was friendship and I’m reading a book called Contented Dementia and this guy Oliver James who wrote it is a quite a controversial writer and he says it as it is but loads of the stuff that he’s saying I’ve already applied to my relationship with my mum and the people around her it’s like for instance if my mum says to me when’s Nanny coming to pick me up instead of me saying nanny’s dead mum you’ve got to live in their world because it’s their world and they’re never gonna change so instead of going well nanny might come a little bit later and if you don’t frustrate them then your relationship runs smooth do you understand yeah yeah instead of we’re a latest one is um I’ve never come into this holiday camp again like I’m like instead of me going mum you’re not in all of the camp oh this holiday came all that is it and all of a sudden your conversation’s flowing and you have to live in their world and it’s a beautiful world because it’s the world they’re in and if you don’t that’s so cool if you don’t frustrating if you don’t pull because that long-term memory back in the day stays there right but short-term memory is gone and it will never come back and it will frustrate you if you

19:09 Say no no mum no mum that just makes them go yeah but you know there’s a guy in there he attacked a night porter the other night and see he got put in there and as a as a young man he was in the army and he’s only just been put in there but he saw a night port so him someone’s breaking in his house everybody go why have you attacked someone but he’s a proud man so he needed mine he’s still at home and this guy’s walked in who are you get out of my house so these all the stuff you’ve got to understand okay you know I mean you can’t beat him up Not for wandering, you can’t beat them up for doing stuff like that, because there’s a… I really appreciated that point about… It’s kind of like in any conversation, you guys I’m sure have met people who you just can’t interact with because they’re so intent on proving themselves right or so intent on being right in or creating an argument and like getting the upper hand in a conversation.

20:06 Sometimes, yeah. You know what I’m talking about. A very good friend of mine said to me the other day, I was talking about the relationship with my father and he said to me that the conversations you have with people are the relationship. That’s a very good barometer of any relationship is look at the conversations you have with people. For me, it’s like when I call my dad, it’s like, hey dad, how are you doing?

20:29 He’s like, yeah, yeah, I’m good. I’m like, yeah, so what’s been happening? He’s like, everything’s fine. I’m like, yeah, how’s work going? Fine.

20:36 Okay, pops, I’ll speak to you later. So our relationship is like it’s we don’t really have a relationship, right? Okay And when you speak about the I mean just hearing what you said at the beginning of the show Just the fact that you and your dad have relationships of that depth means that you got all conversations of that depth I mean you have relationships a deep relationship. Yeah, like Clay Talking to his mom like he can still converse with her and using the skill he’s learned from this book or he’s just learned being around He actually is still able to maintain that relationship right and you say it’s a better relationship now Are you getting to know about everything mate? I’ll tell you mate. It’s the love It’s mind-blowing mate. It’s a love that I’ve never felt before It’s like as I said before even though my mom is hard She would have died for me and people say you go and see your mum so much But I’m only doing what I’ve got to do because that woman would have give her life for me and you’re enjoying it as well right I’ve never I’ve never grown up in the I’ve grown so much up in the last two years as a man Dealing with my mum’s illness Wow. What do you but so you say that you’ve grown up so much, but What were the childish?

21:44 Ways that you that you’ve grown up from good question. I feel the Most of the things I thought I wanted in my life and not really what I need in my life like like All that glitters isn’t gold, mate, you know, for me personally. You said that to me the other day, actually. Yeah, for me, it’s all about having things that cost money, but it’s good not to lose the things that don’t cost money. And I’m looking at having things in my life.

22:16 It’s all about being happy when everything’s going your way, but I’m trying to be happy when things ain’t going my way. And to me, that’s the true measure, because most of the time things don’t go your way on what we want, you know? but I’m putting my trust in God and that’s what I’m doing and I know his plan for me is right for me and my plan for myself usually ends up in frustration and you know that’s my personal opinion I can only speak for myself. How do you know his plan for you? Do you hear him speaking to you? No no not at all it’s just I can’t explain mate and I’m not here to preach to anybody I can only feel the way I feel and I just want to live a righteous life and most of the time a lot of the time I don’t you know I’ll get angry you know trash talk you know I probably swear too much yeah you can’t be a grumpy motherfucker dude yeah oh you can’t swear on it and yeah all right cool you know it’s interesting when you talk about that and you’ve made like 20 new friends or you know these people at this this restaurant it’s just strange how you can form a relationship with people that you never would have thought you would have had you know you when you look at their life a lot of people think I need a good girlfriend you need a couple mates and those are the relationships that are important to you but like I’ve been spending a lot of time with my girlfriend’s daughter and she’s seven and like a relationship with her is like it

23:34 Comes it it rounds me out as a person you know and I can take it to the science museum and I’ll have much more fun than if I went to the science museum with you you know or with her mom or like I’ll have a conversation with my dad for two hours and we’ll talk politics and and in San Diego and he’s 69 and I can’t and have that conversation with you. And it’s like all these people round out me as a human and you have these different relationships and now you have a relationship with your mom, even though she’s demented, it’s still a real relationship. For the last two years, I’ve got the relationship I’ve always wanted with her.

24:02 That’s crazy. I’ve always wanted, I’ve always yearned. Yearned is a good word. I’ve always yearned for the relationship now. And the thing is, right, my sister might see this, but me and my sister never spoke for 10 years over something ridiculous, I mean, just bullshit.

24:18 Family stuff, and the whole family. I used to pray, right, because my aunts were at war with my mum, and my mum was at war with me, and my sister was at war with my aunts. And like, when we were kids, when I was a kid growing up, Christmas time and holiday time was the most special time. It’s the best memories I’ve ever had. Christmas time, we’d all jump round the same house, 20 people in the same house for 10 days, you know, and we’d have dinner every day and sleep on the floors.

24:42 And it was family, and my dad died and it all ended over saying, ridiculous, I’m not even gonna go what it was, I’m not gonna tell you, it was just ridiculous. And it was so bad, the feeling in my family, even when I was praying, I never believed that we could come back together as a family. And not only have we come back together as a family, it’s like, I’ve got more than I prayed for, mate. I’ve got more than I prayed for because now me and my sister are like kids again, you know, just loving each other, You know, more than, I can’t explain the love in my family.

25:21 It’s just, it’s just supernatural, mate. And for me right now in my life, you know, I haven’t got a girlfriend, but this love that I’m feeling is teaching me how to love. And for me right now, that’s the right love for me. Well, since you’re here, you’re still growing at 45 and you’re figuring yourself out at 45, you know? Yeah, well, maybe it never stops.

25:42 I don’t know. Maybe so. Demartini speaks about combining those two points. He does this thing, and by the way Demartini is a spiritual teacher, John F Demartini if you want to look up his stuff, he’s very cool. He does this process with people called the breakthrough experience where let’s say someone has a loved one that’s died and he takes them through a process of illuminating and showing them where everything that they thought they could only get from that person is being given to them in some way from the other people around them.

26:15 So exactly what Clay’s just said now, he doesn’t have a girlfriend at the moment, but he’s getting what he needs from the other people in his life, that kind of nurturing or that energy. I find that quite interesting. I think the reason, maybe I was looking for the wrong things in women, you know? What were you looking for in them? Well, good question.

26:41 Maybe you’re looking for your mom’s love. Yeah, yeah, no girl was ever good enough for me with my mum’s eyes, you know, so no, but I don’t know, this is public, you know what I mean? But sex, I feel, me personally, again, without love is not the plan. For me, for me personally, because I’m experiencing love in a beautiful way and I want to experience that sort of love, obviously it’s a different sort of love, but I want to experience that love with my partner. And I don’t want it to be based on stuff that the world makes you believe is right. I just, well said, powerful, very powerful. You know, there’s so many images that, you know, listen, lust, greed, money, this that it promises everything, but most of the time delivers little. It delivers little, you know. Wow. So can I ask you what you’re doing now? I know you stopped boxing and we’d spoke earlier before we started the podcast, you said you had some maritime on The Apprentice on Sugar. I was just wondering how that happened and you said you do some design work, which coming from a boxer, I was surprised. Yeah, I mean I love being creative, mate. When I’m creative, I’m not worried about money, I’m just in in my little world like, you know?

28:08 It’s a great feeling. Yeah, it doesn’t, it doesn’t. The actual- Feeling it right now, huh? Yeah, I’m feeling it with the song. I am feeling it now, yeah.

28:15 It’s unlike any other feeling. Yeah, you wanna embrace that feeling, mate. It’s all about embracing stuff in life, you know? And if you can embrace that feeling, understand what makes you spiritually, physically, mentally content, you know, we need to be in that place more often, you know, and we might find it in places where you never thought we’d find it, you know? because if you can take the feeling now to a day when nothing’s going your way and still feel like that, surely that’s one of the meanings of life.

28:43 Again, my idea. Okay, and what do you create? That’s a good statement, right? What do I create? Well, when I design, I like to design simple stuff.

28:52 The way I, because I’ve still got my gym over in 99, and my actual way I train people is simple. I don’t try to be too flashy, you know, with the moves and stuff like that. I feel that a good foundation is the basis of everything that’s worthwhile. And so when I designed, I designed a dog lead that I split out with my girlfriend and I was walking my dog and we used to walk the dog together and I thought, oh man, I was gutted. I wish she was still here.

29:21 And I designed the dog lead that two people can hold at the same time. So you hold your dog and so you can hold hands and then hold one part of the lead each. So it’s called the, I’ve invented it, the lover’s lead. Walking your dog will never be the same again. How can love be wrong?

29:38 And also, what’s good about that is that a mother with small children, so if they got Roger the Rottweiler and he’s too big and the kid gets pulled off through the park, now the kid can hold it and the mum can keep their eye on him and the kid can feel independent. Are you a big believer of walking dogs? Yeah, it’s therapy, man. Do you know the dog whisperer? Cesar Milan?

30:02 Cesar’s an amazing dude, right? Milan, yeah. He’s amazing. He says the walk is so important for the dog because you’re mentally testing the dog to stay with you, to stay behind you, and it’s just a whole mental test, not to mention exercise or anything. And so, and once he does that, it’s kind of a reward to him, everything else.

30:20 That’s why he’s like, you have to walk your dog every day, every day. For me, I mean, I lost my dog a couple of years ago. And it was therapy for me. Regents park around the pond and just meeting people and just smelling the flowers along the way like you know it’s a good time to to be creative when you’re on these walls. And then I wanted to ask you because I know you love that dog like anything else so just for those of you don’t know in Clay’s boxing gym he’s now got like a cast iron memorial bust of the dog. Wow that’s pretty cool.

30:52 Yeah it is cool. I always think about this why haven’t you got another dog because me personally if I’ve got a dog it’s it’s it’s the commitment my right now I’m not so much I’m free of the commitment because if I got a dog tomorrow I’d be the same but right now I’m doing stuff that if I was doing it I wouldn’t take be giving the time to my dog mm-hmm and dog needs time doesn’t it it’s a 24 hour 27 days a week you gotta be a good pack leader I I walked I watch dogs all the time and I can see who’s a bad pack leader and who’s a good pack later and you can tell I mean some people walk in the dog and the dogs dragging them along and then some people have the dog walking right next to him like Caesar are supposed to do. I practice dog training on any dog I see my dad’s dog and I’ll just make try to make him behave and all that stuff. It’s fascinating. The dog is the only thing that loves you more than it loves itself mate. It’s truly man’s best friend. You know something interesting if you’re I read this the other day if you have a cat right if you have a cat or a dog and and you fall over in your apartment and die, right?

31:55 They’ll start eating you, okay? But, get this, this is a crazy thing. The dog will never eat your hands or your face, but the cat will. How fucked up is that, right? That’s interesting.

32:06 The dog’s a pack animal, just like a horse, so it has a pack mentality, and the cat isn’t the cat’s loner and stuff. They’re kinda like, the cat’s like that and the dog just wants to cleat. I like both, I like both. So, did you meet Alan Sugar? I never met Alan Sugar, no, I met his Margaret and Nick.

32:24 Oh, his people. Yeah, it’s quite a good story, because as I say, I went into a competition and I got through to the last 12, and then the last 12 went up to Manchester, and we filmed it, and I was sitting in the green room without 12 designers ready to go down to be filmed. And there was this guy sitting there, and he had a little wall for this design, and all these medals, people, oh, I’ve designed this, I’ve done it. I’ve got a little dog lead in the bag, isn’t I?

32:51 Oh, this creation, oh, the technical, and the numbers after the names and the letters, and I’m sitting there like, oh, please, I’m sticking it down to, like, I don’t want no one to see it. What were the other designs? I was just nutty stuff, like, I was too, I was too nervous to worry about anybody else but myself, like, I just kept my head down with my little dog lead in my bag, and they’re talking about this and talking about it and when we’re done to this award and the association of this and that, I’m like, oh, just get this over, get me out of here, man, I wanna get home.

33:25 So the guy sitting next to me, I remember what he invented, he invented a new wheelbarrow handle that’s this and it’s that, and like, oh, well done, even if I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t say, like, that’s a load of bullets, you know what I mean? I’m talking. So, he’s sitting there, so what have you designed? So I’m like, you’re a dog lead, it’s what? I went in a dog lead.

33:48 Let me see this dog lead. I’m like, really, all right. Anyway, I pulled it out and he goes, good luck, mate. You’re gonna need it. So I’m like, oh, thanks, mate.

33:54 How’d it make me feel better? What a dish bag. Yeah, yeah, just, anyway, not good, but. You have to go and pitch like your business idea. So boom, I go downstairs, you go in one, you got 10 minutes with one team.

34:06 Okay. And then you go through, and then you got 10 minutes with the other team. And I go in the room and I’m not good at maths. I’m not a clever person, right? I’m stupid by nature and they’re hitting me with a mess.

34:16 So if you sold this one, how much net price? And I’m just making it up and I’m going along. Because they want a business model, right? They don’t want the invention. They want the business plan.

34:24 No, yeah, of course. I’m a designer, not a mathematician. You know what I mean? So then they asked me about a lead and then it comes naturally. And they said something to me and I went boom, boom, boom.

34:35 And I said, and they all started laughing and I had to cut. They was laughing so much, they had to cut. I can’t remember what I said. And I looked down at Margaret. You know Margaret, the old biddy?

34:44 I think I know her, yeah. I don’t want to tell her. Like Iron Face. I can’t stand Alan Sugar. Well, Margaret, one of his henchmen, she looks like, I’m not gonna say, Margaret Thatcher type, right?

34:54 Okay. She’s laughing, she’s smiling, and I’m like, I got these in my head, I’ve got them where I want them. So now I start hitting them with the jokes and messing around, blah, blah, blah. Go out there, do the next picture in the other room, and I’m buzzing, ain’t I? So if you go to a part of the hotel, and we’ll call you whether you got picked or not.

35:14 So I go in two hours there, get a phone call, they picture, they pick your lead, you’re gonna be on the show. So I’m like, praise God, man, I can’t believe it, I’m buzzing. So that’s it now, that’s all they want of me. I go out and as I walk out, the fella with a wheelbarrow, wheel in his wheelbarrow bars, in the foyer, and I’m like, I’m not letting you get off with this, mate. Like that, it says like that.

35:35 I could hear the creak and I got him, he walked straight past him and he went, guess what, I got through and he went, what, thanks for wishing me good luck mate, you’ve helped me out. And he chinned it in the floor like that, I was like, that’s so cool. Did he make it or not? Did he? You know, it’s hysterical.

35:54 He didn’t. So when I was teaching at the gym in Notting Hill, the jiu-jitsu mat, you know what it’s like, the jiu-jitsu mat is separate to the boxing ring, the boxing ring’s behind walls so you can’t see what’s going on in there. There’s an open ceiling, right? So you can hear. Yeah, but you can hear.

36:08 And like, it’s the one thing I miss about that Jim Clay is listening to you. So I’d be teaching a lesson in jiu-jitsu and you just hear Clay verbally abusing his clients. But the thing is, these clients aren’t chumps. Like a lot of them are hugely successful in a whole bunch of different fields. And I think they secretly love coming to Clay to get like a taste of their own medicine.

36:32 Yeah, most of it, honestly, it’s tongue-in-cheek. It’s never… What’s an example of what… Because I used to hear the music cranking in there as well. Yeah, I play nice, played good tunes, like, you know.

36:44 So how do you instruct? What’s Nick talking about? Just hoot and holler, mate. Because I’m so unhappy in there, and it’s my… You know…

36:53 Why are you unhappy in there? Because it’s that gym, I’ve been in that gym since I was eight years old, them bags creaking, like, you know, it’s my bones creaking. You know, people are still punching me. I used to get beat up when I was a fighter to the head. Now I get beat up mentally and- And your shoulders, keep holding pads.

37:09 It’s too much for me. So it’s just business. I kind of, it’s 100% but I still wanna give my people a good product, mate. If they’re paying the money, VFM, I call it, value for money. They get their value for money, mate.

37:22 And I wouldn’t cheat anybody. And I still give my all just because I’m delivering a product to the people. See, I wasn’t the greatest fighter But what I did do, I trained with the greatest fighters. And usually great people ain’t great trainers. Yeah, definitely.

37:36 Because they’re too busy being great. Yeah. And they’re quite selfish people because usually great people are selfish because they have to be in this world. To me, I was looking, oh, what’s he doing? Oh, what’s he doing?

37:47 And it is indoctrinated into me. All these great athletes doing great stuff. So that’s why I’m a decent trainer because I see the best. Let’s do what they do. I’ve trained with some top name MMA fighters and they’re not always the best trainers.

37:59 They can’t always explain to you why they’re so good. You know, they’re good, but they can’t exactly teach you to be good sometimes. No, what like is not true? I want to hear a story about an example of Clay’s method. So I was working together with Clay for a short while and there were some of my personal training clients that I took to his gym, right?

38:20 One day they joined in a group box fit session with Clay and myself, right? And one of these women was this American girl called Nicole, right? Like, like a bit of a Jewish princess type. Okay. And so when you when you train her to clay, what Jones misses?

38:38 No, dude, it was that Susie remember Susie used to bring her to what happened. So anyway, um, so when you enclaves room, you do what he says, it’s his way or the highway, right? So I don’t think she’d ever experienced anything like this. And he gave some issue, like some command, and she just like stood there, like staring at him. I couldn’t understand what he had said, maybe because of his accent or whatever. And she was, so Clay just walks up to her and he goes, you like a dare in the headlights.

39:06 And she was like, a rabbit in the headlights. So she was like, why don’t you say to me? And then she run out in the street with a boxing glove. So Clay said, get down and give me turn pushups. And she was like, fuck that shit.

39:18 No one speaks to me like that. And she stormed right out and Clay and I just looked at each other. We didn’t know what to say. It was, it was hysterical, man. Did she come back?

39:25 No, no, that was it. No one ever heard of her again. All it is, I just want people to… So what’s your method? Look, you know what my method is, right?

39:33 And because I’m so angst in there and angry and frustrated, yeah, I agree. Maybe I do take it out on my clients, but the way I see it, a lot of them have high-powered jobs and are in situations where if I can give them shit and they can deal with my shit, they can deal with life shit, and I try and give them the armor to deal with life because a lot of the time they’d be sitting in meetings and people would be giving them shit. And if they can’t deal with it in my gym, they’ll find it hard to deal with it out there because if you’re gonna fight or you’re gonna run a marathon, you gotta do the training.

40:10 And if you’re in a high-powered job making big decisions under pressure, you gotta take my stuff under pressure. And it ain’t for everybody. There’s no contract in my gym. There’s no contract. If you don’t wanna come, don’t come.

40:22 You know what I mean? You yell at everybody or you just yell at the slackers? No, some people don’t need yelling now. Listen, people in the gym, it’s like life. Some people need a hug.

40:30 Some people need to be shouted at. Some people you don’t even know they’re there. Some people just get on with it. Some people you have to shout at. It’s just the way it is, isn’t it?

40:38 Okay, and you do group classes in there? Yeah. Always group classes. What you thinking of coming? Maybe.

40:43 I’ve heard you. Every time I went to Nick, I heard you in there. I must’ve heard you a hundred times. Just never saw you because you always keep that damn door shut. I’m a secretive person.

40:51 You are, and you don’t socialize outside of it. No. I thought that was like some crazy Latino dude in there cranking that you got some crazy music It’s not like you playing country music in there. I like all music. I see myself as a bit of a rapper anyway You do it. Yeah, yeah You write down your arms. I don’t need to I’m crazy you keep it in your head. I can keep it in my head Yeah, I like poetry. See I love poetry. So I was brought up with Jamaicans Okay, so my next-door neighbor was from Jamaica one from Barbados. So I was brought up and reggae music. Okay, gotcha Yeah, drop some drop a rhyme Okay, when I was a kid growing up in London, me next door neighbour was from the Caribbean.

41:29 Said he might teach me how some things are gone. That’s why me love the reggae sensation. I’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. I’d like to hold you all in my arms and keep you company. Now, if you beautiful people just love my style and you’re feeling my energy, just clap up your hands and stomp your feet.

41:47 Yes, my name is quality. I’m the real thing. I keep you rocking and swing. Now a plane can never fly without an engine And a bird can fly with just one wing Because Jesus on me father say Him I’m a king Him I teach me how to chat around in my system Watch I’m Mr. Quality just to ride the rhythm And quality just to ride the rhythm Because if you like to listen good music crowd up Listen I can nicer dance nicer party I can keep a man and woman lively La la la la la La la la la la la Listen Come bubble, come bubble bubble for me Come bubble, come bubble bubble for me for me. Pick up, we bubble inna. Yes, we bubble inna, inna. Them style of ringer keep your rockin’ and swing her, swing her. Musical dis, I make a jumpin’ twist.

42:28 Wow. Oh shit. 45 years old. And he was the most nervous guest he ever had. Oh my god.

42:37 Is that all yours? Yeah, of course it is. When’d you write that? Just every day I’m writing lyrics, mate. Yeah, that’s crazy. In my head. Do you record any of this stuff?

42:47 Um, no, never, no, never. No. Okay. You should, man. That’s crazy.

42:55 Oh, this dude was going to be fine. Where, where, where did you grow up? Where were, where were the park? Finsburg park. Oh, okay.

43:01 And what was that like then? I had the best upbringing, mate. Okay. So council flat, who cares? Can’t to the state, um, you know, gangs in the, you know, the guys, always bigger guys kicking shit out here.

43:14 And you know, you just took it. you know and our gang was we grew up and then there was younger ones. It was a brilliant era. Fingery Park’s fantastic. It’s where I was born you know, quite near the Arsenal football ground. Okay yeah I know that. Yeah it’s brilliant I love it. You still love it. Well my mum’s living in Fingery Park. My mum a home is where she was born. It’s called The Bunk years ago in the war. It’s a place called The Bunk and it was quite a tough area and she’s back there now.

43:43 Now, all these many years later, yeah. That’s crazy. What do you, we asked quite a few of our guests the same question, how do you think London’s changed since you grew up? I love London. I love London.

44:03 Yeah. It’s a big question, mate. It’s a big question. It’s a big question. Some of it has changed for, you stumped me, mate.

44:22 You stumped me. What don’t you like about the changes in London? What’s changed for the worse, do you think? I’m sorry, I can’t answer that question, mate. You really, I really can’t answer that question.

44:39 But you love London. I love it, and it’s true what Samuel Johnson said. If you’re tired of London, you’re tired of life, mate. Try to remind myself of that all the time. You know, and living in London is just the most amazing place.

44:51 And, you know, I love, you know, my own selfish dream. I wanna buy my place in Florida. I love Key West, right? It’s my favorite place in the world. Have you been there by the way, Brian?

44:59 Never to Key West. You’ve been to Florida? Yeah, I’ve been to Miami. lived in Florida, didn’t you? No, no, I’ve been to Miami, which probably is in Florida.

45:05 I mean, South Beach in Miami is its own little crazy. Well, I’ll ask it right down the bottom. Is it awesome? Well, for me, it is. For me, it is, you know, I love my fishing. I love my golf and I love my wildlife and it’s got everything, you know, got the Everglades just up the road. You know, you’ve got the sea there. That’s just Ernest Hemingway country.

45:24 Like, you know, he’s my favorite author and he used to live down there, right? Who? Ernest Hemingway wrote most of his best stuff down there, yeah. He can go to his house and stuff. It’s a museum, yeah. It’s a museum.

45:37 Cats are there that have like six paws. Yeah, they have 50 cats and they have like six paws or something? It’s a cat that only Key West produced. It’s like an inbred cat that has… Because one of his best mates, or really good mate of his, was Picasso.

45:54 Like, what a time, you know, he’s made from Picasso, Errol Flynn, David Niven. Did you see that movie Midnight in Paris, where it’s a Woody Allen movie and they go back in time and he meets on his tummy, Woody Allen Paris. It was good. It was all right. It was interesting.

46:08 Woody Allen, Woody Allen. Sorry, Woody Allen irritates Alan. Really? He’s not in this movie. Yeah, thank God.

46:13 Fair enough. But he does make interesting movies. Yeah, I’ll give him that. Anyways, yeah, what a time that was. Fair enough, but it does make interesting movies. Yeah It was yeah, what a time that was. It’s like Paris and the Paris Cuba, you know Amazing, but I always love coming back to London So you like that you like the Sun and you like to love the fishing golf I love the whole ambience down there light, you know, but you couldn’t move there permanently. No, no I’ll always want to come back to London. Why funny cuz well why yeah Because I just, me personally, I feel privileged growing up in this place that we’ve got it and I have to say that we’ve got it so sweet here.

46:52 Really? Personally, yeah. You know, what I say, no matter what I go through, the hardest times I’ll ever go through will be someone else’s best time, mate. That’s how sweet we’ve got it. You know, you go and turn on the tap, it’s easy.

47:05 You go to bed in your radiated room, it’s easy and I thank God for where I was born. Wow. You know what I mean? of those people less fortunate me that are finding it really hard so do you like London cuz it because it’s because of the people or just because it’s a functioning urban metropolis I love everything about it okay I love everything about it you know yeah dude dude I’ve gotta be honest like I do love London but this the winter started to get to me the last couple of weeks you’ve always hated the wind yeah yeah sometimes I mean then I think okay we have one day of snow. I mean, it’s not that bad. It’s zero degrees. It’s not minus 20, where it is in Bulgaria.

47:45 It’s not the snow, it’s the gray, dude. The gray, I know. The gray gets me too sometimes. It feels like the sky’s on top of my head, you know? I know. And I get that feeling sometimes, too. And I’m like, it’s gray. And I mean, I live in a shortage and it’s like old street roundabout isn’t exactly an architecturally stimulating place. You know, it’s like a big roundabout and like…

48:00 But at the end of the day, we’ve got our fingers on the pulse of the universe, man. Yeah, we do. We do. You know, and so London, you know, is good and bad. For where else could we meet? Where else could we meet a dude like this?

48:09 And nowhere, Key West, I guess. Yeah. Oh man, that’s where my, that’s where my, that’s where my dreams are. We should give a shout out to Alpha Brain, huh? Yeah, we should.

48:19 Our sponsor is Onnit Labs, that’s O-N-N-I-T, and that’s at Onnit.com, and you can get Alpha Brain, which is a new tropic to make your brain function a bit better. And also the makers of Shroom Tech, which I’ve been using for some heavy cardio workouts. It’s got the cordyceps mushrooms, and I really like that actually, that’s really good. So check it out, if you use the code London Real, when you check out, you get 10% off and you support the show and pay for the mics, et cetera.

48:44 Also check out Clay’s product, Lovers Lead. Where can we find out more about that? Yeah, well, you can go online, loverslead.com. And also, another one of my products is abspack.com. Oh, that’s for doing sit-ups and stuff?

48:59 For doing sit-ups, cheer. Yeah, that’s quite a cool thing. And what about if someone wants to find your boxing gym and get yelled at? I’m not interested. Oh, man.

49:05 Yeah, applications. Knowing your clients? I’m not interested. I only do enough to pay my rent, mate. So you don’t want anyone bugging you?

49:13 No, I just, for me, I pretend I don’t do it. I’m on auto-pilot. How many clients do you have? I’m not sure. Okay.

49:21 It’s funny, the guy that taught me jujitsu for like eight years, he trains at the third space gym in Piccadilly and clients come up to him all the time and they’re like, can I train with you? And he’s just like, no. He’s like, why don’t you take a boxing class for six months and come back to me? Or he says, it has to be by referral for someone that trains with me. And these people, they’re paying tons of money.

49:40 It’s like one of the most expensive gyms in London. These are obviously these, you know, high-powered people. You say, and they don’t get it. They’re like, what are you talking about? I’ll pay whatever.

49:47 I don’t care. I’ll pay 100, 200 an hour. And then he’s like, no, sorry. It’s really frustrating. It’s crazy.

49:55 Dude, that was fun as hell. Dude, that was good. We still got a few minutes left. So, dude, I mean, you’ve been, you just freestyled for us. You designed dog leads.

50:05 You fought, you know, professional boxing. I mean, what else? What else you got? Oh, I’ll run a little. Oh, it’s got a T-shirt coming.

50:12 Yeah, I’ll do a little charity. Slang, sending love across nations globally. Of course I’ll try it. Wait, what is that? It’s T-shirts I sell, and I’ve been doing a little bit of work.

50:21 I haven’t done for the last little bit, but I have done work in the past with Starlight. I work with kids that are terminally ill and really, really ill kids, and we take them out on trips to like the theater and shows and concerts and stuff. So I sell the t-shirts and the money I get, I’ll just take them out. But I really wanna build that. That’s something where I really wanna go.

50:43 I wanna do less on the, I wanna give it that away because if I give it away, then I don’t have to worry about the money myself, like, you know? Okay. That’s it. Then we can find more about the clothing line at slang.co.uk. Yeah, slangclothing.com.

50:59 Send in love across nations globally, you know? It’s like… It’s L-A-N-G. Slang yeah cuz slang was my dad weren’t a cotney But if you know he was finishing part boy But he taught in cotney rhyme in slang okay, and so I’ll come up with that well I was lucky to be at a trade market as it goes so it’s cool You know one thing I want to ask you do you watch boxing now? Or do you watch michigan mix martial arts or have you washed your hands of that whole?

51:21 Sport I watch any sport. That’s done. Well, okay. Do you watch the UFC to watch mix martial arts? If if it’s on yeah, if it’s on I’ll watch it. Yeah, cuz I I think they’re amazing athletes, right?

51:33 He’s a great golfer as well. Please have scratch man. Really? Wow. That’s a game that I find very difficult Yeah, you need to be calm very calm. Have you ever trained you jitsu? Do you have any interest in that?

51:43 I’ve done a bit of jujitsu like my best mate Steve Who who Nick talks about and by the way, you did say fit envy of Atari before? But I couldn’t remember the Latin. Yeah show your faith by the way show your faith by the way you live man that’s Steve the guy we talked about he always says that oh yeah show your faith by the way you live yeah your faith in what faith you know I’m like people talk this and they say all the prayers and I sing all the hymns but you know and they say do this do that but you know a tree by its fruits mate you know show your faith through the way you live it’s interesting so you took a little bit of jiu-jitsu and thought it was interesting I did I really I’m I’m lazy by nature mate okay I’m a lazy My dad was a lazy sod. I’m a lazy sod and it’s hard work and I’m too lazy to do it I’m just telling her the truth and then rolling around You know getting pulled about my body hurts too much but I do Listen, I respect jujitsu because I’ll tell you what everybody who does jujitsu is a gentleman, mate Yeah, it’s funny. They’re not a gentleman. They leave a gentleman Why is that way because you can’t say the same on boxing honor? No boxing gyms are quiet high aggressive but jujitsu is family yeah I find that family is family a lot of our guests have been you know people that train jujitsu with Nick or I’ve met and like we always think we’re like these guys are cool dudes and and what

53:03 Is it is a risk I feel with jujitsu with boxing someone can get in there and never box and have a massive punch and every time they eat they hurt with jujitsu you have to do the work mate someone who’s just walked in no matter how strong he is, if he’s been doing it with someone who’s been doing it a year, he won’t be able to mess with him. Yeah, I think the nature of tapping out and tapping out repeatedly, especially when you’re a beginner, just makes you humble because you’re just getting owned. It humbles you. And you have to, yeah, you have to come. I know Roger really well, Roger Gracie and, you know, and his dad, I just think they’re amazing people and I really respect Jiu-Jitsu, not for me, But I respect it in in my dreams always for I’m gonna start jujitsu next month I’m gonna start jujitsu, but I’m just too lazy, mate. I don’t know it doesn’t work do everything this No, I’m just I’m just lazy by nature That’s what I am Yeah, I find boxing really challenging I didn’t start boxing till I was 31 and then I trained for about eight years and I just I just found it really hard to ever really get into the flow and be competitive in a sparring session as opposed to jiu-jitsu with that close contact for some reason I could compete there but I found maybe that that’s got to be too late to even start unboxing right I mean you well it depends why you’re starting boxing you know do you want to have contests or you know you just want to do it to keep yourself in shape because

54:22 Boxing training is amazing it is yeah I just want to get better you know like I don’t think you can put any limits to it when you should start something might as in you started as early as possible start early as possible and start as late as possible depends where you want to go with it that’s interesting no I I mean, you know, John Jones is the current like heavyweight champion UFC. He’s been fighting for like three years. That’s crazy So he’s a natural he’s natural and in that it’s funny because since he doesn’t have that classic like boxing training and why time training He just he’s really creative. So he just does these really loose way of fighting No, he doesn’t keep his hands up like a boxer and he just it’s a style that works for him You’ll always find in you’re finding anything in any sport. There will be a pit. There’ll be a people that shine and we all aspire to. Yeah dude, you’re one of those people. Well I mean that’s a compliment coming from the blonde giant. The blonde giant. I remember he was fighting in a competition once, remember that over in Hackney. Yeah. And it was all there and all these black belts are lined up and it’s coming in the neck and I’ve gone the blonde giant like that and even him he’s just about to fight and he’s burst out pissing himself laughing and it’s It’s just about to start rock and roll with someone.

55:32 Do you remember that? Yeah, it was great. You’re pretty relaxed when you go into fights, right? I’ve seen you, you look almost ultra relaxed. Dude, that fighter was stoned.

55:39 Were you? That’s probably why I was so relaxed. How did that work out for you? Oh, dude, I won the first match, didn’t you? Yeah, I won the first one and last the second one, but it was interesting, dude.

55:47 Wow, that’s crazy. I’m so proud of you that night, mate. Thanks, buddy. I was, man. I was privileged to see that.

55:53 Powerful man. Dude, that’s kind of wrapping it up. We got your URLs and stuff. So if you want to box with him, forget about it, but we’ve got lovers lead dog lovers lead lovers lead and then slang Slang clothing calm and abs pack calm. Okay, cool And yeah for any of our listeners I’m gonna we’re gonna put a link on the on the page to go to iTunes because if we get some Comments out there will be up through the rankings and we’re getting more more I tune downloads and videos We’re getting thousands of people there. So yeah guys if you listen to the show and iTunes, please Please just click and review the show, like two sentences will help us.

56:29 The more reviews we get, as Brian said, the higher we get rated, the more people watch the show, which means the more likely Brian and I are to keep doing this. Yes. Well said. I just want to give a shout out to two of our fans, Kevin Borland and Tommy James, who put comments on our page, and it’s good, man, we love it, lots of positivity. So Clay, thanks for coming.

56:49 Thank you. Clay. I really appreciate you having me. I feel humbled and fantastic being in your presence. It’s cool, it’s a bit therapeutic.

56:56 No, it’s good, I listen, I watch it, you know, I watch it, last week, the guy last time, mate, he was a little bit too much for me. He’s so clever, man. The Dimitar, yeah, he’s a smart cat. Yeah, whoa! He’s a smart cat, yeah, I know.

57:07 Anyways, until then. It’s about the journey. All right, guys, take care. God bless you all.