Brian Rose - Becoming London Real

Full transcript: Brian Rose on London Real

0:00 This week on London Real, we have me, Brian Rose, the host of London Real. I was always a little businessman when I was a kid. I was always selling chocolates on the bus and calculating my profit margins. I did a little loan sharking when I was a kid, but I had no muscle. Their capitalist dream was instilled in me very early, being in America, and I think the more I studied finance, it probably enhanced that.

0:23 That. I was actually offered a position to get my MBA at Sloan School and I had an offer in Wall Street to be a trader and I chose the trading job and I went straight to New York City and I mean like Jesus that’s intense. I read American Psycho, I read the book Pimp by Iceberg Slim and I saw these as training manuals. I would have to say New Yorkers always kick my ass. The CFO of a dot-com startup and I was making you know six figures and dollars and I was broke like literally broke. One day I could kind of stop breathing so and like they had to call like paramedics and get me to breathe again. So like that’s not a good sign. If you go into something I think just to get paid you ultimately don’t do a good job. In retrospect I had everything and I just I had nothing.

1:10 An ayahuasca ceremony when I was 27 would have altered massively the course of my life. My family life wouldn’t exist without my psychedelic journey. 99% of the people I’ve sat down with are wonderful nice warm people and I’m always pleasantly surprised. Ultimately London Real is my journey. I don’t want to get stale and I don’t want to keep doing the same thing and I always want to kind of do something new. London Real presents Brian Rose becoming London Real. My 20 year old self would definitely tell me to fuck off. They say if you live long enough. Sooner or later you get to see a little bit of everything and this week you get to see something I never expected but what the hell we made it happen and that’s me in the hot seat in the guest chair at London Real having to answer pretty much anything that is asked of me. It was a very unique episode and I hope you enjoy it. I have a funny feeling you’re going either love it or hate it. I was brutally honest about many things about my past, some of my shortcomings, probably more I talked about my shortcomings than any kind of failure successes that I’ve had because that’s more my style I guess. I talked about my move to London, the creation of the show, what happened with Nick, whether this is a viable business etc etc and I guess I gave it pretty straight so we will see you know it’s London Real so if I can’t sit here and get real then I have no business producing the show every week so there

2:52 You go I was very fortunate to have my my good friend Sully Breichs interview me and that was that was important because it couldn’t have just been me talking to the camera or me talking to someone I didn’t give a shit about because I think I needed to tell this story to a person and Sully was a good good one there because he he’s really quite a good interviewer he was really curious and he’s a lot younger than me and so he asked me some questions it’s funny like when I was on Wall Street and and what I was doing and why I was obsessed with making so much money and so he really was like why Brian like really good question so I’m really glad he was there you know it’s it’s really funny being in the guest chair with all those lights down and it’s very intimate and you can go in thinking okay I’m gonna talk about this and I’m not gonna talk about this, but once you get going, you’re almost kind of, it’s out of control. So I finally have empathy with my guests. It’s funny, some guests sit down with me and they said, Brian, what if I say something I don’t want to talk about? And I always say, it’s easy. Don’t say what you don’t want to talk about, but it’s actually not that easy, because once you get flowing in the conversation and people ask you questions, it’s hard not to answer. So much sympathy and empathy with any of my former guests who who answered things that maybe they didn’t want to I don’t know but uh overall it is what it is so I’m putting

4:11 It out there and like I said you will either love me or hate me more after this and and that’s okay I think it’s all about the realness and the expression and then there’s something beautiful about the truth because it because it is the truth and there’s no real debate after that and so we can kind of move on after that, I think. So I don’t know, I’m trying to figure this out. So let me know what you think. I’m sure you will in the comments. I most likely not read them because I really don’t read any comments. I try to always move on to the next guest, but I welcome to have them. Obviously, feel free to share this or like this or dislike it. That’s okay too. But anyways, I hope you enjoy. Maybe I’ll come back and do this some other time, but I got most of what I wanted to say out, of course I missed some pieces and I probably glossed over and you know didn’t explain a lot of things too but there you go, it’s in the moment.

5:02 So thanks to Silly Breaks and thank you to you for watching me talk about me, there’s probably not something more egotistical than that. So there you go. I’m doing the loops around Arnold Circus here, one of my favorite kind of quiet places here in Shoreditch, definitely worth checking out if you’re in London and I just want to give a thanks out real quickly to our two big sponsors and those are the guys it monkey nutrition, they have a very intelligent and different way of looking at supplementation.

5:28 They look at it really from a macro perspective, what does the body need and what does it not need and they really ask hard questions about what you go in your body. And so I’m a big fan of their products and their ethos. I’m using their Primal 26 protein powder to work on my muscle up, which will get done. It is very frustrating, especially now after months and months and months and I have the strength but I don’t have the skill and to see other like young guys doing it in front of me it’s it’s it’s heartbreaking but you know I’m trying to remember my days in jujitsu when I couldn’t do an armbar and other people could so you know I’m just trying to keep it in perspective so thanks to those guys you can click on this link below pick up some primal 26 get a copy of their ebook and just learn more about them as a company and just big thanks to them for sponsoring us and there you go if you’re watching this now I would have just concluded my week with Dan Pena. That’s if I made it. I’m not quite sure what is going to happen up there. I’m going to try to keep an open mind and learn as much as possible from the 50 billion dollar man and all of his insights and madness. Let’s be honest, he’s a little fucking crazy and I appreciate the invite having him up there and hopefully we can come together and exchange some information in a positive way and if not then it’ll probably blow up and you know I’m not

6:47 One to linger long in situations I don’t like so we’re gonna see how this goes but hey it’s an adventure so fuck it that’s that’s what we’re gonna do so I’ll let you know and of course next week hopefully it will be the Dan Pena episode if we taped it I don’t even know you know but there you go and that’s it speaking of Pena he was out in Los Angeles for the first Bulletproof conference which was awesome I spoke to the Bulletproof guys and they had a fabulous, fabulous two or three day event there with like 32 speakers. I think you can actually be able to watch that online at some point. So wanted to thank the guys at Bulletproof. It’s a coffee that’s free of molds and toxins. You mix it up with grass-fed butter and brain octane oil. Everyone loves it, including Dampania, and you can pick up that stuff by clicking on the link. They also have the Bulletproof Diet Book that’s coming out in December. You can pre-order it now, give a couple copies to your friends, and if you pre-order it, you’ll get sent nine videos right away and I believe the first chapter on PDF. So check that out and big fans of The Diet, The Coffee, Dave, the way he looks at his life. You know if you just did a few simple things like drank that coffee every morning and changed say five things about your diet and made it bulletproof, it would change your life considerably. You know I would say it would improve it by 100% so I don’t say these things lightly. I’ve

8:04 Experimented with so many things in my life as I talk about on the show and And this is one that’s a winner for me and I’ve been doing it now for a year straight I think. So there you go, so thanks to the guys at Bulletproof, check that out, support them for supporting us and there you go. So now we’re going to dive into this, it’s like the toothpaste coming out of the tube, I won’t be able to put it back. So the things that I tell you here on this episode, like I said, they’re going to be out there and I hope you enjoy them.

8:32 I think I was pretty honest with Sully, I didn’t really have much choice. So there you go. Like I said, feel free to give us comments or send me questions, but I’m probably done interacting for a little while, but there you go. It’s about the journey. This has been the story of mine.

8:48 I’m calling this episode Becoming London Real because that’s what it is. Lots of love to you guys, the fans. You’ve transformed my life by just me talking to you every week. So thanks so much to the London Reelers out there and lots of love. And here I am.

9:08 This is London Real. I’m your host Sully Brakes. My guest today is Brian Rose, the founder and previous host of London Real. Brian, how does it feel? How is it feel to be on the other side?

9:22 This is super strange. I don’t think I’ve ever sat in this seat ever. I’ve never seen anyone sitting in my normal seat like with the mic and I’ve never reverse set up the cameras. So this is really strange, but it’s good. I mean, you know, the obstacle is the way, is Ryan Holiday says, and you should put yourself in uncomfortable situations sometimes.

9:41 So let’s do it. Thanks so much for being here. I couldn’t think of anyone else that I’d rather talk to and tell them my story. So thanks for being here, man. It’s no problem.

9:49 I think it’s long overdue anyway, because I’ve said it to you for a while that it’s time that you speak to the audience and we want to know your story. I want to know your story, you know? And I think this is the perfect opportunity and I don’t think you could have set it up any better. So let’s start. Okay, fair enough.

10:05 It’s interesting you say that cause you know, I’m always the last person to talk about myself in the show. I know that. I mean, to a fault even, it’s kind of silly because like sometimes I’ll say my opinion and then I’m like right back to the guest and I’m like right back to asking them questions. And I’m probably like that in my personal life too when I meet people at parties and stuff. I’m always talking about them or talking about their life.

10:25 One of my best friends, I used to meet him for dinner like once a quarter and at the end of the night he’d be like, wait a second, we didn’t talk about you. Yeah, I know that I get the same feeling every time I come here and we talk, we’ll be talking for like two hours and I go home and I think, I’ve talked too much. I didn’t even get to ask Brian what he’s up to, you know what I mean? I think you’ve nailed it down to a science of getting people to express and open up, but you never open up yourself, you know what I mean?

10:47 Yeah, it’s strange, because a lot of people that started shows, whether they’re comedians in LA or hosts or anything, started shows because they wanted to talk about themselves or have a message or perform. I mean, you’re a performer, you know? But I’m not really, I never really did this. I started doing this, I think, because I liked having conversations with people and I thought it was fun and I got to learn about people, but I’ve never been the guy that performs.

11:12 I don’t think, maybe part of me is performing. So for me, this is strange. But I know I need to do it more and I like doing it more. So we’ll see, man. Maybe we’ll start something here.

11:22 I guess performance is all relative, you know what I mean? And speaking the fact that you said you’ve never been the guy, so what kind of guy were you? You grew up in San Diego, right? So at 13 years old, let’s take it back between 10 and 13, what kind of person was Brian Rose? Let’s start from there.

11:39 Look at you breaking it down. Good question. Really good question. I grew up in San Diego, California, which is a strange place. I mean, it’s on the beach, it’s on the border.

11:49 It’s kind of a conservative town. My dad was an electrical engineering major at Caltech and then he went in to start his own kind of like high tech companies. So my dad is one of the smartest guys you’ll ever meet, one of the coolest guys you ever met. And him and my mom kind of raised our family in San Diego until I was seven when they got divorced and they separated and that was like definitely a big moment for me as a child. My brother was nine, my sister was three, I guess.

12:19 And so, but for a seven year old, for me, I don’t know, but I think I got angry. I think if I was five, it might’ve been different. And I think as boys, when they grow up, For me, it was kind of like, maybe it was like a big fuck you to me, even though of course it had nothing to do with me. But I think I really internalized a lot and I think I was just like, well, the world is now telling me that we’re not gonna be around for you. Nothing’s permanent in this world.

12:44 And I think I really like kind of internalized that in a way. And then I was also really self-reliant because there wasn’t a lot of people necessarily telling me what to do or taking care of me. So I was just like all about handling my own business. So like when I was nine or 10, Like I was waking up early. I was getting the bus for an hour to school.

13:02 I was getting my homework done. It was like, it was all about me getting my stuff done, so. So what was the incentive? I mean, what was your passion? It’s interesting that you said your dad did engineering because you later went to study engineering.

13:12 I thought you would have kind of been opposed to going that route because of all this anger you felt at the divorce situation. So at that age, what was your passion? What was driving you to be that self-reliant person? What was your goal? Did you want to be a scientist?

13:25 What was it? It’s a good question. I mean, I think science and tech is kind of runs in my family. My brother’s a computer science guy from Stanford and my dad was an electrical engineer. I became later a mechanical engineering degree and so I was always working on my Ford Mustang when I was a kid.

13:41 And so for me, I think that was my rebellious is that I wasn’t gonna be, I mean, I did a lot of computer programming in school and then science fairs, that was my thing. I was like crazy science fair kid, like fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, I went to the state science fairs and won like third place in California. I was like big, man, I was always doing the experiments. I mean, I was a proper, proper dork kid. Really?

14:03 Yeah, I was in the garage with like all the things on and like I would take three, four, five months to do my science fair project, so. Really? Yeah. And they taught us to computer program really early. When I was in fifth grade, 10 years old, I got, San Diego had a really weird system where they had like a reverse integration system.

14:20 So if I took a bus from our neighborhood for an hour down into kind of the inner city neighborhoods, I could learn how to program like Fortran and Pascal, which was like unheard of. But 90% of my schoolmates were black and Hispanic. So it was this very strange thing where I would go down to these schools, learn all this stuff, get a total cultural difference, and then come back home and play with some of my friends in the streets. And they had no idea where I had been.

14:45 So I went to this whole like science route that my mom kind of helped us go. And that kind of shaped definitely my high school. And that’s later why I went to MIT to study mechanical engineering. So yeah, I guess I didn’t rebel enough to see that you know the thing is I don’t have any like outright anger for my dad It’s kind of strange. I love my dad and he’s like probably one of the greatest dads in the world I believe that and so but I think at the time just that whole Separation psychologically for a boy I think it really resonated with me and it’s something I explored later in my ayahuasca ceremonies, which we can talk about But it came up. We’re gonna get to that. No, we’re gonna get to that. Yeah. Yeah So yeah, so that was me as a kid, you know, I kind of I kind of did that thing my last two years in high school I went to Torrey Pines High School, which is kind of like the Beverly Hills 90210 high school Where my dad lived I moved him my dad later funny enough because I was like, you know, horrible kid to my mother I was slamming doors and everything. She was like just get out. So I moved in with my dad and how do you this was 16 maybe yeah, so my last two years I live with my dad I went to this this high school where kids drove their own Mercedes to school I was like what the hell is going on with football games. They were like gorgeous girls. They had Surfing PE was one of the classes I’m not kidding you go to you go to the beach was your first class and you would surf and then go to school

16:04 Tony Hawk went there really famous skateboarders. So yeah, it was it was a complete difference from where I was before But it was really it was it was really good and I became more of like a bit more social and stuff because before that Man, I was proper dork. Yeah, I mean I was proper So you immersed yourself in that culture come in that whole culture of kind of that was a little late So I was only like junior and senior year. So I wasn’t like with the cool football players But like I kind of got a vision for it. I started working on my 68 Mustang I was an auto shop and and I had a girlfriend and I kind of it kind of finished me off a little bit as far As got me more acclimated and then it was my big move And for university my dad went to Caltech, which is a highly technical mostly male school in Los Angeles Yeah, and I remember visiting with him and I was like man. This is just a bunch of like nerds I didn’t want to call for that. Yeah, I was like, okay, let’s go to parties and let’s get you know Let’s let’s be social and so when I my mom took me on a school trip and we went to Boston and man I saw Boston and the underground and I saw these buildings and I saw the MIT campus It’s just like absolutely stunning in these huge like, you know Neoclassical buildings and I was just like this is the place, you know, so and it was six hours from home So like I’ll count. Yeah, you wanted to get out of home. I wanted to get the hell out of Dodge. So

17:19 On it to that MIT experience. What was that like? I mean you hear a lot about MIT I’ve been to Stanford myself and I’ve seen that I’ve seen how the whole culture of Entrepreneurs that have come from there because that you can see it’s all in their stakes of the place the nature of it was MIT like it’s a good question Stanford’s interesting because you know, it has that tech but it’s got a huge entrepreneur feel from the Silicon Valley Valley. So MIT is, I mean, I’m not one to get sentimental about anything, but like every day I walked down that hall at MIT, I was like Jesus man, this place is no joke. And I’d walk down the hallways and they’d have like pictures of dudes like Fermi and all these like Nobel Prize winning physicists and you’re just like Jesus, you know, this is really intense. And like even after four years I was like this is special being in a place like that. And the joke at MIT is there’s a guy with a fire hose in his mouth and so the idea is that they They turn the fire hose on and they stick it in your mouth and you try to drink.

18:13 So the idea is just to cram as much in your head and see if you can survive. And so yeah, it was intense, I’d never been away from home. On top of that, from a housing situation, back when I lived there, 60% of the men lived in fraternities for housing. So it’s the most intense thing. I got there, I was given a temporary dorm room and two days later I was hitting every single fraternity in the school.

18:37 And four days later, I pledged a fraternity and moved into a house full of 50 guys, where the maximum age was 22. We cooked for ourselves, we cleaned for ourselves, we partied for ourselves, and it was just like this small little group. And I was a pledge, and they were brothers, and there was hazing, and it was the most intense experience, and now in retrospect, one of the most fun. And it was just like, wow, it taught me really how to be a man, how you interact with other men, what’s cool to do, what’s not cool to do.

19:07 You know how to be social how to party and also get your work done and I saw guys I saw guys fail out as well And like literally they went from MIT and then they went back home and they became like a bike messenger I saw guys just crash and burn So it was really intense also so much fun and from a social standpoint. It was just like it’s just crazy Yeah, Lord of the Flies is what it was like. Yeah, I’ve heard about them They’re kind of the college system in the States man And I’ve always envied it just looking at it from an outsider perspective, because our experience is cool, but I mean, yours just looks like on another completely different level.

19:42 And I can imagine that contributed to a lot towards your growth and your transformation. So being in that space, did your aspirations change? Or is that what took you from there to the next phase of your life, which was Wall Street, right? Yeah, it was, man, good questions. You’re good at this.

19:55 I gotta watch my back. I’m putting it on you, you might lose your job, you know? I know, no, it’s good, it’s good. I like to comment, competition’s good. You know, it’s a good question.

20:03 I was studying mechanical engineering, which is kind of like engines and aerospace, as opposed to electrical engineering or computer science. The internet didn’t really exist at this point. I was given my first email account in 1989, and I was like, what the hell is this? So there was no web. I didn’t really like computer programming.

20:20 That was like ultra dorky for me, but I liked the way things moved, and so I studied mechanical engineering. And my first summer internship, I was 18, and I worked for Ford Motor Company in Michigan, and that was like my dream. I had a Ford Mustang when I was a kid, And I was literally at the Ford buildings, working on some project for a car that was going to be built in six years. And I was like, this is awesome. And then after about three months, I looked around, and there was these 55-year-old dudes that have been there all their lives, making 50 grand dollars.

20:47 And I was like, I don’t want to do this, man. This is not my course. It’s just it’s a corporation. And I was like, I don’t want to do this. So when I got back to school, I had another internship at an aerospace company.

20:57 And finally, I was like, you know what? I want to study finance. And so I had a buddy at MIT, and we started taking classes at the Sloan School of Management, which is the business school at MIT. And unlike Harvard and other schools, they allowed the undergrads to take classes with the MBA students. And since the undergrads at MIT are sharp in math, they usually end up going in and just killing everybody at these classes, because these MBA students haven’t done math in five years.

21:20 They’ve been on Wall Street. So we were in there, and we were just killing the options math. And I was learning so much. I had the Wall Street Journal showing up to my fraternity doorstep when I was like 21 years old, And I was reading and I was just like, man, I gotta go to Wall Street. So I just flipped.

21:33 I mean, I was always a little businessman when I was a kid, I was always selling chocolates on the bus and calculating my profit margins. I did a little loan sharking when I was a kid, but I had no muscle. But I just switched and I was like, I don’t wanna do the engineering thing and I don’t wanna do finance. And all the Wall Street firms were going to MIT because they wanted, they call it the rocket scientists. They wanted the brains so they could go and trade their derivatives in New York and stuff.

21:55 So I was actually offered a position to get my MBA at Sloan School and I had an offer in Wall Street to be a trader and I chose the trading job. And I went straight to New York City and I mean like, Jesus, that’s intense. So at that time, what do you think you were chasing? Like what was it, you seem like you was chasing the rush, the adrenaline, the excitement, or was it the financial incentive, the incentive, or was it, you seem like a person that’s driven by experiences, you know.

22:24 Even with London Real, you focus on people’s experiences and the adrenaline behind them. What were you chasing in that aspect? That’s a good question. I think the capitalist dream was instilled in me very early, being in America. And I think the more I studied finance, it probably enhanced that.

22:41 And so I think I really had a goal of maybe success and maybe probably money. Probably money was the way I was gonna judge my success. I think, I mean, when you’re in university, it’s hard to tell, because there’s so many different things going on you’re learning and you’re not around people with money but I think for me like the banking industry was just so foreign and it was Gordon Gekko and it was just like jeez this is intense I mean I could go to an aerospace company and work I worked on like a you know a rocket ship project and a Galileo space probe and that was cool but it wasn’t like Wall Street where it just felt like all the energy was happening I didn’t have any idea the money involved at the time so I can’t say it was just that but for me I think it was the rush the competition. Back then that was kind of like that was the tech startup of the day. If you wanted to go and make things happen and it was like Wall Street was kind of the place and then I had that opportunity and I just yeah I went for it. So at that time just to take a step back and just step back at that time what did you think you perceived that your future would be? Obviously what you didn’t see yourself sitting here and creating London Real. What at that time what was the end goal? What was Brian saying to himself leaving and MIT got into Wall Street, what was the retirement plan?

23:51 That’s a great question. I don’t know if I was thinking that far ahead at that time. I’m 22. I just don’t remember thinking that far ahead. I mean, I remember being in business school and studying all these classes about finance and accounting.

24:01 And I just was like, I want to be a part of that. And I just want to do something. I don’t know. I guess I just probably saw it as a place where I could compete, I think, more than anything. I don’t think I was thinking, I’ll get a house in Westchester someday and a boat.

24:13 Because I didn’t even understand that stuff. I’m from the West Coast. So I never hung out in New York with wealthy families. I didn’t know anybody that were traders or people in finance. So it’s not like I had a lifestyle to aim for.

24:25 And my family in San Diego, we were kind of upper middle class, but it’s not like there was a rich friends that we were hanging out because I want that. It was like we were comfortable. So it’s a good question, Sully, and it’s something I think about to this day. But I think something inside me was like in America, it’s all about the success, and it’s all about what you do to create it. And that’s how you’re judged.

24:47 And I think in my mind, maybe that’s what I was chasing. Maybe that’s what I was chasing. But I was young then. So that period, when you stepped into Wall Street, that period seemed like a definitive moment in your life. Do you want to explain the pivotal things that happened from what year did you go to Wall Street?

25:04 93. And you were there till? I was Wall Street till about 95. And then I went to Chicago and traded there till like 97. And then I came to London for the first time.

25:13 So explain between that entire period before you came to London. That seems to be a key moment in your life. We’ve talked about it. And you spoke about so many things happening there. So what happened in that period?

25:24 Good question. Do you want to start off? I don’t know. Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, it was like where I lived. I mean, I went to New York City and I was walking around this place.

25:31 I mean, Jesus, the first time you’re in New York, as you know, you’re just like, what is going on? I mean, especially when I was young and I was like, I’m going to live here. And you’re walking around these neighborhoods and everyone’s like Soho and Tribeca and the West Village and the East Village and the Upper East Side. And you’re like, you don’t even know what’s going on. It’s like 25 cities rolled up into one.

25:49 And I remember I found a guy who was an NYU grad, because the only way I could find a place was through the NYU student board. And I met him, and he was an NYU grad, but he was in a band, and he was in the East Village. And I moved in with him, and we were roommates. And that was crazy, because I ended up hanging out with him in the band and stuff. So first was where I lived.

26:06 I lived in the East Village. It was still a little dodgy. I remember seeing cops on the corner, and I was just like, those are my boys in blue. And Mayor Giuliani was there at the time, and he was beefing the security up. But a few years earlier, it was Tompkins Square Park, squatters and riots, and the East Village was always kind of like the heroin area and the edgy area.

26:26 And I liked being part of that, to be honest. I always wanted to live there, as opposed to the nicer places in the Upper East Side where the Wall Street kids would live, or the Wall Street analysts would live. So that was a big where I lived, and it was Pete Braganza, my roommate, and he had a band called Plastique and he had a hip-hop singer and he was the white boy and he used to go out and I used to go to all his gigs and it was good times. And then the other part was I would get up and take the subway down to the World Trade Center and I would go to Bankers Trust, which is where I started trading.

26:57 And I would literally walk out of the World Trade Center every day and I would look up at it like a total newbie and I’d be like, I don’t even care if people see me doing this. I was just like, are you kidding me? And our building was right next to the World Trade and actually in the first bombing, which was I think in the early 93 before I got there, it took out like, you know, part of the front parts of that building. So they were still rebuilding from that, that underground bomb of the World Trade Center that happened in 93.

27:20 And we were on the 30th floor of Bankers Trust. I could see the Statue of Liberty. I could see World Trade Center. We were on the trading floor full of the most intense people you’ve ever seen in your life. You know, it was, you know, 300 people deep, like a long, like football field.

27:35 Everybody has a meter. Everyone’s on the phone. Everyone’s shouting. Everyone’s pushing testosterone, throwing money around. There was a woman from MIT who got me the interview there, and I walked by her, and someone was like, yeah, she’s no joke.

27:46 And I was like, what? And she’s like, she owns like 20% of the entire Irish government debt. And that’s her position. She’s trading it, talking about. And it was just this whole atmosphere.

27:57 It was so intense. And they gave me a phone, and they said, here’s your phone to the Chicago Futures Exchange, to the Mercantile Exchange, the Bond Future Exchange. Here’s your phone to all the brokers. and they’re like, trade. I mean, like, I don’t think it could have happened anyway.

28:10 Like, within two weeks I was on the phone doing real stuff, and so I was really lucky. But I also got to see, like, the politics and the intensity and the money and all the things going on, and I learned really fast about it. And the positive will make it his way. I mean, I loved it. You know, I had more fun at work than I did at home.

28:27 Because it was always, like, drama. There was always people messing with each other and swearing and threats. Because it’s this weird posturing position, and there’s lots of money being made, you know, tens, hundreds of millions of dollars. And at the end of the year, the head of the desk has to decide who gets the money. So there’s posturing, everyone’s like, and there’s like maybe six alpha males on the desk and they’re all trying to get the biggest paycheck.

28:49 So if they can make one look bad, they might get an extra few hundred grand at the end of the year. So it’s this whole mind game that gets played. And when it gets to December, everything goes up, the stakes go up because that’s when the bonuses are decided. So like, I wasn’t involved in that. I was so young, I was just watching.

29:04 And I just saw, you know, And I got hazed and I got messed with and I saw it all happen, but it was it was a lot of fun A great education. I learned a lot about derivatives So yeah, that was kind of my New York experience. Yeah I mean my only experience of Wall Street is from the like the movie for instance right the wolf on Wall Street How how how close is your experience relate compared to that was exaggerated for Hollywood say I didn’t like the wolf of Wall Street You know it’s the thing is that wasn’t really Wall Street I mean he had this kind of bucket shop that would sell penny stocks to you know consumers You know, we were interbank dealers where we were trading like pretty sophisticated derivative instruments between major financial institutions.

29:41 So no, we weren’t doing like lines of coke, there weren’t prostitutes on the desk. I’ve told people like in the long run, like, if you really want to be a player in a bank or on Wall Street back then, I mean, you had to have your game tight in all ways. And I just don’t think you could survive with a coke habit doing that. Like you would screw it up. And for there, you had to be on your game, you have to manage your risk, you have to know how to cut your losses and maximize your gains, and you have to be thinking constantly.

30:07 There’s a lot of stress. It’s like playing poker. You got to know when to hold, when to fold, and then you’re constantly running positions over the weekend, and it’s like there’s a lot going on there. And so that’s different than the Wolf of Wall Street. Now is it like Gordon Gekko from the movie Wall Street?

30:22 No, he’s more in mergers and acquisitions and buying companies and stuff. So it’s not like that. The thing about Wall Street is there’s so many facets of it. But what I saw it as a kind of as a derivatives trader. So it’s kind of an interesting game, but you know, that’s what I did and it was yeah I loved it and I started hanging out with guys that did that and I made some good friends in the city kind of on That tip so at that time what was going in your personal life and your social life What was shaping you outside of the work?

30:47 What was everything just work-driven you were just ambitious and focused on hitting targets making bonuses. Yeah, it’s a good question I guess I started hanging out with kind of my my indie indie rock roommates and then I started hanging out with some kind of investment bankers and guys I’ve met from college and guys I met in the city so I have one group of guys that would want to buy Cristal when they go out and one group of guys that would just want to buy you know just Budweiser and so I kind of started hanging out with both but yeah I definitely saw that like fast-paced Manhattan lifestyle and I definitely drawn to it and like you know we didn’t really have that much money but we we spent the money like we had it you know typical kind of young Wall Street people you buy the bar I remember a buddy of mine, he would just start buying bottles of Cristal just for the hell of it.

31:30 And then like wake up the next morning, I’d look at my, and I’d call him, I’d be like, dude, you bought two bottles of Cristal last night. I can’t even pay my rent. Like what are you doing? But it was just like that mentality of consume, you know, we all, one guy got a house that was in a penthouse at like a building and then the next guy would have to get it. And it was really, I mean, it probably sounds horrible to the people listening, but at the time it just became this like spending lifestyle.

31:52 I read American Psycho. I read the book Pimp by Iceberg Slim, and I saw these as training manuals, and so for American Psycho, I used to go and try to dress like him, and me and a buddy would joke, and I’d be like, today I’m wearing Prada loafers with a da-da-da-da, and I’d write a two-page description about what I was wearing, a la American Psycho. And then I read Pimp, and I was like, we were kind of a little extreme as far as doing that. I was going out a lot, trying to be social, and yeah, partying a lot in New York City, that kind of thing.

32:23 It seemed like you were living the life. So what was the turning point? You know, it’s a good question. New York is a tough city, and I had a tough time in New York. I think, you know, it’s funny.

32:33 London’s been always good to me as a city. Like, I’ve always had success here. I’ve always had it in the city when I was here and with the show, and I’ve always met great people. And New York is tricky. I think when I was in New York, I don’t know if I was ready to compete.

32:48 I think I was still chasing demons on my own. I think I was still- What kind of demons were you chasing? It’s a good question. I think, you know, I think a few things. I don’t think I knew politically how to play certain games.

32:59 I think I was like 23 years old trying to compete with guys on the derivatives desk. I think I was partying a lot. I think I was, you know, I don’t know. Maybe I was, maybe, maybe this happened in later years, I was kind of medicating some angst, you know, about myself, you know, I don’t know. I’m trying to figure it out.

33:18 It’s still to this point. But when you’re in Manhattan and all these things are happening, you just kind of go with it. And it’s like, yeah, of course you go out on Thursday and Friday and Saturday and Sunday. And then you get up early and you work. And then you work hard and you play hard.

33:32 And then you spend as much money as you can. And it’s just this kind of lifestyle, but you don’t know why you’re doing it. But when you’re in Manhattan, and I see when I go home and visit some buddies, they’re still doing it. And I think Manhattan is such an intense place that it’s just like you have this little microcosm. You don’t have a lot of open space.

33:47 Everyone’s competing, you know, New York, I had a colleague that said it once, he was like, Brian, he’s like, when you wake up in New York, he’s like, you fight for your cab, and then you fight for your coffee, and then you fight for your sandwich, and then you fight for, you know, you’re always fighting in that city. And like, New York City doesn’t give a fuck about you. And if you die, they don’t care. And so it’s like, it keeps moving, and it’s like, what have you done for me lately?

34:08 And I can’t ever say that I mastered New York. I went back later as a dot-com CFO, and I would have to say New Yorkers always kick my ass. quite honestly it has and I think I just wasn’t a master of myself that time. I mean I think I was still at night just trying to chase my demons and maybe I was drinking and partying because you know I don’t know maybe I was chasing this dream of money is going to make me happy, success is going to make me happy but I can’t get there so I’m going to keep trying and keep trying and then when I’m on my down time I think I was like alright I don’t want to think about this so let’s party and drink and stuff like that and so I think I went through this loop of doing that.

34:45 Yeah, and I just never found that success. I think now if I went back, you know, with just like knowing what’s important and having like a base and like knowing why I’m doing something and have a real purpose, I think it would be different. But at the time, I was out of control. So what year did you move to London? So I moved to London the first time in 97.

35:02 I came over here. So why London? Great question. I was actually, so as a trader, I moved to Chicago. I had a great job offer there and I shouldn’t have left New York, but it was like a lot of money and Bankers Trust was just kind of, you know, I was still a junior guy in the desk and I was like, I’m leaving. I moved to Chicago.

35:17 I had some money. I was living on the 40th floor and I had all this stuff I finally wanted. And I worked there for like a year, year and a half and I lost my job there. So they were just cutting back the derivatives department. We had a great couple of years and then it was off. So I was like, what am I going to do next? And I’m in Chicago and I had some money in the bank, not that much. And I was just like, what am I going to do?

35:36 And someone was like, well, you can be a credit derivatives broker in London. and brokers were actually kind of like the whipping boys of the traders. The traders would call the brokers up and say, okay, get me this, get me this, get me this. And they would pay them fees. And I was like, I’m not gonna be that guy.

35:52 But I didn’t have a choice. And so I went and I went to London. And for me, I was like, you know, you want me to go to Singapore? You want me to go to Timbuktu? I’ll go.

36:01 If you pay me and there’s an opportunity, like I don’t even care. And I remember I was dating a girl in New York City for like six months. And then like the night before I left, I was like, oh yeah, by the way, tomorrow I’m gone. And for me, it was just normal. I’m like, because that’s my opportunity and I’ll see you later.

36:15 So I actually ended up dating her for a while. But the point was is that wherever it took to go, I went and I came to London. So, I mean, what was your perception of the city? Like coming prior, there was no thought about that. You just headed to wherever the money, wherever the wind was gonna take you, essentially.

36:33 I’m not the horrible person. You know, my mom always had us travel as kids. So I went to Japan when I was like 12 years old and I lived with a family over there. She took us to Europe when I was 15 and I went to all the countries. So you lived in Japan when you were 12?

36:47 Yeah, for like a month for each year with a family, like a homestay program and she took us to Europe and we traveled around and it’s no coincidence that two-thirds of my siblings, you know, we live in Europe now and I think it’s because my mom really opened us to like these possibilities. So coming here was probably less foreign because I had traveled, but still it was really new and I just got here and I had no friends and all my buddies I was hanging out with in New York, it was just like flat line. And I was just like, I knew nobody, and it was hard.

37:13 So what was the biggest transition you had to make? You know, I guess probably coming here and knowing no one, and then I moved to Notting Hill, and I was working for the company I ended up working for later, iCap, which was a great company and a great group of people, but man, yeah, just really isolated. Not having the good friends that you were hanging out with and just have to deal with a new culture, but you know. By the same time, you were still the same brand that had just come from MIT onto Wall Street and from Chicago to London, were you still that same person?

37:42 Obviously, you had experiences, but was your incentives and your goals still in the same direction? You know, it’s funny, because this is the time where I think most people have the hardest times in life, which is like the late 20s. I guess you’re not there yet, right? But that’s a weird time, because I think when you get out of college, you’re 2023, you give yourself a little leeway and people give, like, let’s give him three or four years and see if he can get his shit together.

38:04 But by the time you’re 28, you’re like, okay, well, am I actually making the progress? Because the grace period’s over. And so I think I was like, what are you doing? You work for two different banks now, now you’re going over to work for a broker shop. I think I was starting to be hard on myself.

38:17 And I was like, you really need to get your shit together a bit more. And that’s the last thing I was doing at that point. I was just like, not a long-term plan, trying to make short-term career decisions, that kind of thing, following the money. Me and my buddies from New York were all following the money, which is hard to do when you’re young it takes time, but we all, in Wall Street, you see the MDs and you’re sitting next to a guy who’s making millions and millions of dollars and he’s making jokes and they’re like, oh yeah, blah, blah, blah.

38:47 And so you get into this culture of you wanting that, I think. Okay, then we spoke before the interview and you said that 2001, I believe, 2001, you said it was a transformational period for you. You said something happened in 2001. I told you not, I didn’t want you to elaborate because I wanted to get it out on the show. So, let’s get, are we at the 2000?

39:08 Yeah, let’s get there, let’s get there. So you was in London, you’ve come from Chicago, you’re a young man, you don’t know what you’re, you’re kind of starting to doubt your path a little bit. Then what happens? So actually, I had, one of my best friends from MIT had called me in 99 and said Brian, the dot-com boom is on, and I’ve got a guy who’s starting a company that’s selling luxury goods on the internet, I want you to meet him and you’re gonna be his CFO, basically.

39:34 And I was 27 at the time. I flew back to New York City, I met this guy and he was like, you know, we got 15, $20 million, you’re gonna be the CFO, and I was like, I can’t wait. So I flew back to New York, I had a girl that I, that same girl that I had said I’m leading, I was still dating like long way and I was gonna be back in New York, I was gonna be on the dot-com wave, and I was like, I’m back, I’m back motherfucker. So like I showed up and I had no idea how to be a CFO.

39:59 Yeah, I had Wall Street experience, but those are very different things. I had no idea how to run a startup. To be honest, no one in the company really knew how to do a retail startup. The dot-com boom was just insane. No one knew what the hell to do.

40:11 No one knew how to get a server, to put a website. It was all so new, so I went back to do that, and I kind of worked in that company and for a subsequent kind of dot-com company, and it did not work very well for me. I was trying to be a CFO. I didn’t have the experience. I was still partying with my friends.

40:30 I don’t think I had any clarity about what I was doing, and come 2001, just everything went wrong for me. It was definitely my worst year in existence. What started down wrong, you mean job-wise or? So yeah, so job-wise, so I ended up working at that company until I couldn’t, I just couldn’t stand being there anymore, and I didn’t get along with the CEO, and my buddy ended up having me work at one of his other .com startups. So you left that one away?

40:56 Yeah, so I was working for another .com startup, and I was like trying so hard to do well, and I was doing so poorly. And finally, one of my best friends from school sacked me from that job. So that was like crushing. Wait, so you’d gone into the job working for your best friend from school? Yeah, I mean, it was like one of his portfolio companies was like, I come work and then set this whole company and set up the website, do all that.

41:16 And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he’s just like, you gotta go. And I was like, Jesus. What was that conversation like? I was horrible, it was horrible.

41:22 I haven’t talked to him since. You know, this is a long time ago. And so like, I don’t blame him at the time. Like I was just, I was kind of a mess. I couldn’t really run the company.

41:31 I was like, yeah, I was partying. I was like, I was just a mess. I wasn’t happy. I didn’t know why I was doing what I was doing. I was trying to do things, but it was just like this really bad effort.

41:41 So like that happened. I broke up with this girlfriend for four years. She basically left me. Just the girl from New York. Yeah, from New York.

41:49 So I’d seen her for like four years. And she was just like, I just don’t want anything else to do with you, which was another sign. Like when a lot of people are telling you this, it’s something to notice. And then 9-11 happens on top of all that. Let’s backtrack for a second.

42:00 So you wake up one morning, you go into work, and your friend says to you, we need to speak to you, you’re fired. And then after that, you’re in a relationship with this girl. How long after when this? I think it was like, it’s a blur, but it was like all around the same time. So yeah.

42:14 So your world is slowly falling apart. It was completely falling apart. And we might as well get real since it’s London Real. So I was partying to an extent where I was partying and drinking and doing God knows what, Like to an extent where… What’s God knows what?

42:31 This is London Real. Yeah, this is London Real. God knows what. God knows what. So it got to a point where like one day, like, one day I kind of stopped breathing.

42:39 So and like they had to call like paramedics and get me to breathe again. So like, that’s not a good sign when that happens. Yeah. And so like when I think my girlfriend saw that happening, she became unimpressed. And like you can imagine if I’m doing that, I’m probably not doing a very good job at work.

42:55 Yeah. In retrospect, like those are big moments for you when you’re just like, okay, you know You could you could you could die now and so I didn’t really take it seriously then but I still I guess I probably Internalized that a little bit, you know then so these are the kind of things I was doing Girl left job left, you know, you’re basically trying to kill yourself in some subconscious way And then I guess like 9-11 happens and I was in the neighborhood and you know after it happened, you know So I actually almost spent the night in a place next to the World Trade Center that night but I turned down and offered to do that so I wasn’t there but I walked home that night I was living about a mile away and like for the next people don’t remember for like the next couple months the place smelled like jet fuel and like decomposing corpses it was it smelled so bad down there and it was just and there was army military everywhere and It was just like it was just like horrible. Like everything was bad. I sucked. My job sucked.

43:56 I had no relationship. My you know, my friends were sacking me. It was like it was probably the lowest point and I basically decided I needed to get out of New York City. Was anyone after you? What? After me. You said something. You mentioned we had this conversation before he said AMEX or someone was off. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I owe money everywhere. Yeah.

44:15 It’s a line in Wall Street. American Express has a good name looking for me. So I was Bro, I mean like I was spending way too much money, you know trying to live this lifestyle I mean, I remember I joking with one of my buddies and I was the CFO of a dot-com startup and I was making you know six figures and dollars and I I was broke like literally broke like I was I couldn’t I couldn’t you know I was spending way more than I had and you’d think you could be able to live in New York City for that But you couldn’t so I couldn’t so this is like what I was doing and like it was kind of normal for all of our buddies, we were just leveraged to the hilts, we were like out all the time, you know, trying to maybe medicate ourselves or kill ourselves.

44:52 And then our job, my job performance was horrible. Obviously my relationship performance was horrible. And so like, it was just a very bad year. And I just made a decision, I got to get out of New York City. And London has had been where I had had a job there and I knew I needed to get away.

45:07 And so I called up a few people and said, I’m coming back. I came back January 3rd, 2002 and that was the start of phase two of me. How did phase two start? Did you have a job at the time or did you wake up one day? Did you read something?

45:22 Most people, when there’s the phase two, when there’s a transformation period, there’s normally a catalyst. What would you say? As opposed to outside of the experiences, you were still obviously unaware of the state you was in. What woke you up one day and said, this has to change? Well, it’s a really good question.

45:36 I got here, like I said, January 2002, and from there, I like basically cleaned my act up, like, from like almost, so you won’t. So you left with the intention to come. Yeah, but it’s weird, because like, if you, you know, if you have, you know, substance issues or substance addictions, people say you can’t just stop. But I think like, there were so many factors that told my brain how much you suck, whether it’s like the girl you love of four years basically just tells you, just never told me again, your best friend’s sacking you, you know, you’re almost dying, to just all these horrible things in your life where I think something just clicked in my brain and I was just like, all right, I’ve got a new place to start and I’m just not gonna do these things.

46:13 So you’d agree that you would add it to you addicted to the lifestyle with the substance as well that came with it? Yeah, definitely, definitely. So yeah, that’s a big date in my life when I came here and that was what? Well, that was 12 years ago, 12 and a half years ago. And so I came back and I had a job with my old company and I just started, I don’t know, I really started rebuilding myself.

46:35 So it was like I had work and I took it seriously and I liked doing it. I used to think I was like an older boy, but now I was like, no, now I’m gonna enjoy and embrace this job. And so as soon as I started loving it, I started getting good at it. And then I started putting money in the bank. And then I started training in mixed martial arts and you met Chris Kiston who was a guest on here before.

46:53 He’s an autism teacher and I started training with him. Where did the martial arts come from? I mean, going back to your addiction, you said you were at cold turkey. You just came, landed cold turkey. And you started, you got a job, you started picking up your job.

47:04 And then where did martial arts, I’ve known you for a while and you’re very into your physical health. Do you feel like that was a key component of rebuilding yourself? Definitely. And what triggered you to go into that field? It’s a good question.

47:17 One of my buddies in New York had said, hey, you should really try out Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and you should go do it. And I was actually flying helicopters and that was like my way of like releasing on the weekends and like, I think it was my way of daring my life. And I used to fly helicopters and then when I took that first Brazilian Jiu Jitsu lesson in June of 2002, I never flew a helicopter again, and I didn’t even remember I hadn’t gone. I was going every weekend, and you’re up in a 2C or R22, and you’re practicing auto rotations where they cut the power, and I mean, it’s scary shit.

47:45 I think about it now, and I’m like, what the hell? People die all the time in these training helicopters, and I think I was doing that to kind of get my rush or get out of my head, and so as soon as I started training jiu-jitsu, I never looked back, and I think, for me now, I trained before this interview. For me, the physical exhaustion of my body is a huge component in my mental clarity. And I was never doing that before in New York City. And I never even realized that your body and your mind might be related.

48:12 And so now, I’m vigilant about my training. I mean, to quote Chris, my sensei, my instructor, your training comes first. And then family comes, and then your friends, but your training comes first. And I agree with him. You always get your training done because that sorts you out.

48:27 And that’s how you are yourself. And so that also is a weird way of showing yourself that you love yourself, like you’re important first. And so that was, I think I kind of morphed into that guy to where I learned martial arts and I started being focused about my body and I started learning how to fight. And like, I can literally look back for those first few years and I, you could probably look at my posture and even my body type and I was probably like this and I just slowly started to become, you know, like confident in myself and one with myself There’s something about mastering your body and just mastering my mind.

49:00 And I was no longer a slave to these bad behaviors. And I was just like, okay, I’m becoming like a Brian Rose, I’m proud of. I totally agree. We had this conversation before maybe like a year ago and you emphasized to me the importance of physical health and how the benefits and I started engaging in it. And I definitely, because before a lot of people trained, but they never take into consideration the mental aspects and the mental benefits.

49:21 And I started to be aware of that. And I definitely see the difference a year down the line a couple months down the line of engaging in that practice, and I know you’re a big advocate of that. Yeah, I am. You look great, by the way. Oh, I’m trying.

49:33 I’m trying to do my muscle up. I’m not there. Oh, that’s a tricky one. You know, it’s funny because that’s kind of even gone over to my meditation now, and I kind of take the meditation just as seriously, and I go through my routine later, but I wake up in the morning now, every morning, and I brush my teeth, and I get back into bed, and I sit up, and I try to do my, I do my meditation 20, 30 minutes, and for me, it’s like paying the bills. For me it’s like, I always like this metaphor, it’s like a rider on an elephant, you know?

49:59 And that’s you in your brain, that’s you in your subconscious as you’re the rider on that elephant. And if the elephant wants to do something, there is very little you can do about it. But if you do your meditation, you can kind of become the guy that can kind of guide the elephant around. And for me, if I don’t train and if I don’t meditate and I find myself wanting to engage in destructive behaviors, it’s that simple. And so I know, and it lags, so if I don’t meditate maybe for two weeks or if I don’t training for two weeks, you know, I know I’m gonna get agitated energy, I’m just not gonna be able to do what I want to do and so for me I pay my dues every morning when I wake up or I go lift those weights. I know then I can be a master of myself and I so much like being in control of Brian as opposed to Brian being in control. What do you think that destructive behavior is a product of?

50:42 Is it a product of your experiences in a place or do you think it’s just innate within you that you’ve always had that you said you had as a kid you had to live in with your dad because you had that kind of end in and destructive behavior in your mom’s environment? Where do you think it stems from, or is it just always being new and you have to learn to control yourself? It’s a great question. I don’t know if it’s something I was born with or if I was born a really intense kid or in genetics or whatever, but I don’t know.

51:06 And I’ve had some psychedelic experiences like ayahuasca and things like that where I’ve gone back and seen this seven-year-old boy that I think I shut off the world and I didn’t want to engage with people socially and that kind of thing. And so I don’t know where that intensity comes, But I think the intensity comes with sometimes risk-taking and then people not being in control of themselves. You see it in a lot of fields. I mean, people that are very successful at things often are not able to control themselves in many ways.

51:34 And so it’s weird. It’s like those people that take risks and take chances and push the envelope are the same ones that can be really self-destructive. Like Kanye West. Yeah. Well, I mean, like there’s so many examples, you know, and you’re like, what are you doing doing?

51:47 And part of them doesn’t like themself or still feels inadequate or still feels not good enough. I’m really hard on myself, really hard on myself. Always been hard on myself. And so for me, I wake up every morning and I say, what have you done for me lately? Why aren’t you killing it today?

52:02 What have you done? And so I think maybe I was medicating to my own judgment of myself. I think maybe I was just trying to get my brain to leave me the fuck alone for three hours every night when I could come home and just remove myself from the world a little bit. I think that’s what I was doing and so it’s just something I have to be aware of these days but I felt like with my psychedelic journeys I’ve understood how I work a little bit more, understand also where I’m really, I used to be really hesitant about opening myself up to other people and getting hurt in relationships and like all that too and so it’s not a good answer and I’m still trying to figure it out but I think it’s all related.

52:41 But like one thing I want people to say and to know about me is that people like see me on the show and people walk around and they’re like, oh, Brian has all his shit together and he’s like doing the show and he made some money in banking and blah, blah, blah. But you know, first of all, it hasn’t always been like that. I mean, literally American Express would be calling my dad and harassing him and he’d be like, what the hell is going on, Brian? And like, I would be like, people would buzz on my house and I’d be like, they’re coming to get me, like, you know, bill collectors and like, you know, I was just physically horrible.

53:07 And I mean, like I’ve been where everyone else is and you know, addictions are real, you know? McCain’s wife can get addicted to pain pills or can get addicted to substances and like this stuff is real. It happens to everyone, you know, and people think that celebrities or not that I’m a celebrity, people here are immune to those things. You know, I’m not. I’ve been there when all these situations that other people are in.

53:28 It’s just, you know, I’ve tried to handle a lot of that stuff, but you know, there’s still challenges. It’s just, I feel like I’ve kind of understood those challenges and that’s a great thing about age. You know, iced tea says, says it best, you know, you know, after 40 or 50 minutes, These are the good times, man. If you can understand yourself much better, then you can know how you work and what you respond to. If I knew what I know now when I was 27, I mean, I could kill those things.

53:52 But at the time, I had so many issues going on, and I don’t regret what I did. I don’t have any guilt about anything, but, you know, that’s what I see now. So you came back to London. You was around 30 this time then. Yeah, I used to watch the movie Fight Club all the time in New York City with my buddies when we would party or whatever, and one of the favorite lines in there is I’m a 30-year-old boy, and that’s exactly what I was.

54:13 I was a 30-year-old boy. So I came back to London as 31, and I became a man. Because I really was. I was irresponsible. I was just, yeah, useless.

54:23 So I came back to London and then just built this piece up. And I started my real career, I guess, in the city, in finance, and started training martial arts and just taking responsibility for myself. Yeah, that was a big thing. So at this point, it appears that you’d at everything you wanted, you’ve always been aiming for, and the path that you’ve seen that your path was set. So how did you get from there to where we are now?

54:46 Good question, Salih. Yeah, because we’re not in the city right now, right? We’re not on a boat. We’re not on a plane. You know, and now that I look at it later, I think in my mind, I always had this, you know, in my brain, I got a capitalist night.

54:59 In my brain, I got a capitalist migraine. That’s an Iced tea quote. And I think I just had this, once you get the money, you’re gonna be happy. And that’s the only priority in life. you need to move in London, you need to work 100 hours a week, you need to do, that was all priority.

55:12 So like you do whatever it takes to get paid. And so I think as I started getting paid, I think just like anyone who reaches a goal, whether it’s for an actor or a performer, you reach a celebrity goal or something, you get there and you realize this isn’t really what I was looking for. And so I think I was, I believed in this capitalist dream that this things would make you happy. And I got there and I just wasn’t happy. I was going in to a job doing something I had mastered and it wasn’t challenging me.

55:38 I was interacting with the same peer group of people that did what I did. I was going out with clients that did what I did that had a priority of working for money and living in a nice house in London and driving a Porsche. And I had no new interaction. I had no community. I had no autonomy.

55:55 I didn’t feel like I could create anything. And I was just like, in retrospect, I had everything and I just, I had nothing. I really didn’t have a reason for being around. I had no family and I had relationships, but I just didn’t have a purpose and I think it was really starting to eat away at me. Your subconscious knows so many things that your front cortex doesn’t know because your front cortex says, oh, it’s all about the money, I’m getting paid, I’m good, I’m happy, I’m successful.

56:20 But your inside of you knows that’s not true and that’s why you see people make behavior changes. I think ultimately, I started, funny enough, I started meditating and five months later I walked in to the guy on the desk and I was like, I don’t wanna do this anymore and I was terrified and I walked away from a very good living, but I was just like, I can’t do this anymore. And I remember I called one of my clients, I said, I’m leaving, I’m not very happy. And he said, Brian, you haven’t been happy for two years.

56:46 And I was like, and these are clients, these are guys that I would take out and take to dinner and take to the Monaco Grand Prix and de Verbehe for skiing and all that. The guys that I’m supposed to put on a good face. I’m doing business, you know? And as a businessman, you have to constantly be in a good frame of mind. And they could tell, they could tell, I hated it.

57:03 I used to drag myself in, I used to wear jeans to work, and I’d be like, you know, and I was no fun to be around, so. Jim Carrey has a great quote, I think in the commencement speech he did recently, and he goes, I wish everyone would get rich and famous so they could see that that’s not the answer to everything. And yeah, I think that’s a perfect example of what you’re talking about. So I think meditation is something a lot of your audience wanna know about.

57:25 How did you get into meditation, and what brought you into that before we go into you leaving your job, then going to London Real? Yeah, good question. I was always interested in trying new things, so I did like a stand-up comedy class, still one of the greatest things I’ve ever done. Really? It was really hard.

57:38 Do you ever perform? Yeah, I performed yet twice, and yeah, I mean to the stand-up comedy, I can’t imagine. Yeah, it was so intense, and it was really hard, and every week I was like, I’m not going back to that class, but I really learned a lot about performing and timing, and you know, I mean, it’s, everyone should do five minutes, you know, to get up there and do it, you learn so much. And so I was always trying things, you know, jiu-jitsu or Thai boxing, I was always like, I gotta be learning something, And I just tried a transcendental meditation class, which you pay quite a lot of money for and I don’t know if it’s worth it.

58:09 But when you do pay money for something, then you make sure you do it. So I saw it through and I went for three months and I meditated 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening. And I don’t care how you meditate or do mindfulness or whatever if you call it TM or use a mantra or you don’t. I think quieting that mind down, it pays dividends in the long run and I’m living proof of it. meditate, I’m in control.

58:32 If I don’t meditate or if I don’t train, I have a funny feeling I’m not gonna be in control and I don’t want that guy back. So for me, it’s an important part. You don’t always see dividends. Sometimes you sit down in the morning and you’re like, Jesus Christ, I can’t stop thinking about that edit I gotta do for London Real or that episode I gotta get out. So sometimes you’re not always successful, but just attempting it is an important thing and it’s been good for me and I’ve done the flotation tank as well Some if that could be a great way to get into meditation if you don’t want to but hey if it’s not for you That’s cool. I’m not pushing it, but If I look back it’s after I did that that I left the city So there’s something going on so you just asked you so I’d meditate your subconscious that voice became your subconscious ways became a lot louder to You it must have you know it must have because I’d feeling this way for a long time But I actually took action which is you know yeah, you know I could still been there I could still be there you know I could grind it out You know, I could grind it out and make a living guys do it all the time that are still there You know They do it and you get into this lifestyle where you get used to making this kind of money and you get used to the house And the car and the kids in private school and you just do it for the rest of your life So so did you wake up the next day and and be like what the hell have I just done?

59:42 What was the first foot waking up the week or two afterwards? It was a little terrifying at first, you know Leaving was really emotional. I said goodbye to everybody. I wanted to duck out but I said goodbye. Thank God And I was just like, I’m gonna give myself, I think I said I’m gonna give myself a year or six months.

59:58 I was really optimistic and it was weird at first. I had a lot of spare time. I just didn’t really know what to do. It’s nice having time off for a while because you don’t know what to do. But I was literally, didn’t know what to do next.

1:00:11 I thought about doing a startup and I talked to my dad about it. I was like, dad, what am I gonna do? What was the idea for the startup? I was just like, maybe I should get into the startup. Maybe I should go into the tech thing and do a startup.

1:00:21 Again, that’s not the way to go into a startup. That’s a horrible way. I think when I was the CFO of the dot-com, I wasn’t like, let’s go and figure out the greatest way to sell luxury goods online. I was like, no, let’s go be a CFO and get paid. So I don’t think that’s a good way to accomplish any goal if you go in thinking this is how I’m going to get paid.

1:00:39 So one of my good days when I was a broker in credit derivatives, I was loving what I was doing and I was good at what I was doing. But if you go into something, I think just to get paid, you ultimately don’t do a good job. And so I toyed with doing a startup And I remember really telling my dad, I know what I’m gonna do. And my dad was just like, he’s like, good, you shouldn’t always know what you wanna do. My dad was really zen about it.

1:00:58 And I ultimately realized, I was like, I don’t wanna, why am I gonna do a startup? So then I can IPO, and then I can tell all my friends in high school how successful I was. And I was like, I don’t need that queue. Like, I don’t need a queue. I don’t need a success queue.

1:01:12 And I don’t need to tell people how much money I make. And I remember I started telling people like, I didn’t used to work in the city because that was me at first. Oh, I used to work in the city. And like, stop saying that. Like, stop identifying with your job, you know?

1:01:23 And so I tried to get this narrative in my brain to go a different way and not to like latch on to these previous things that create your character. So I thought about doing that and then, you know, and then London Real just happened, really. I mean, the brief of the London Real story is that you and Nick were walking. You always had walks and, you know, eventually that concept came. Let’s interview some of these people about, I mean, what was the inspiration?

1:01:46 I mean, Joe Rogan, you speak about him a lot. Is it influencing your stuff? And also, I mean, what was the relationship between you and Nick prior to you guys just walking down the street, asking yourself all these questions? Great questions. I’ve been training in mixed martial arts in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, so I started watching the UFC.

1:02:03 So I started listening to Joe Rogan comment on the UFC. I’d never really heard much about his comedy. And then I started watching his podcast, which was kind of, it started off him and his two buddies on a sofa with like a laptop screen on Ustream. It was super low tech and I started watching these things at my computer at home And I was just like wow a guy’s talking for three hours about I don’t know I don’t know what attracted to me to it. Just kind of like uncensored media talk about whatever you want You know, they were really pro marijuana and I was never really pro marijuana myself But I like the fact that they were able to talk about it So it was like just free thinking and free thoughts and I was really attracted to it I remember watching those first Rogan episodes and the music playing at the end and I was just like wow I felt like I just had you know a download into my cranium, you know of just Ideas and just a perspective of you can talk about whatever you want to talk about and you can be whoever you’re gonna be And I don’t know it was really inspiring and I remember I told my dad I said you should start a podcast I told my dad on the phone my dad’s a real character and he’s just a great wonderful guy and and I told him that He was like, yeah, you’re crazy. So I was already thinking that way. And I was Nick was one of my Brazilian jiu-jitsu trainers I had a few but I trained with him on the weekends at Hodger Gracie’s Academy in London

1:03:16 You know great school and I was training with him like once a week and you know during the day I didn’t have anything to do and he didn’t have anything to do because he was training at nights or on weekends and so we’d walk around London and just like talk and about everything girls or money or business or Relationships or philosophy and then I after a couple of them I was just like that would be a good podcast that that would be a good podcast if we recorded that And, you know, Nick was just like, let’s do it, fuck it, let’s do it. And I was just like, okay, if I’m going to be the podcast guy, then I’ve got to, again, I’ve got to get out of my own head, I’ve got to tell all my former friends and all my people that know me as the city guy that I’m now, you know, talking into microphones on YouTube at home.

1:03:56 So, like, and I mean, I was conscious of that, I was like, you know, and so I thought about it for a couple weeks and, like, for Nick, he was just like, you know, he had really nothing to lose. He was like, fuck it, I’m not, no one’s going to say this is ridiculous, but for For me, I thought I had stuff to lose. So ultimately though, I went for it. How long had you been unemployed at this point? So our first episode was I think October or November, and so I’ve been nine months.

1:04:18 Nine months. So you really have time to get to know yourself and explore. Yeah, I don’t know what I was doing. It’s interesting. I’ll talk about my family in a bit, but my long-term girlfriend, her daughter had come back into London, and I was spending time with her as well, and so that was interesting.

1:04:33 I was kind of slowly becoming a dad in a weird way, and I don’t even know what I I was doing that year. I was just training and I don’t know what I was doing. So, you know, that came up and then once I decided to do it, then it was on. You went back into focus mode and. Like, I have a tendency to be obsessive, you know.

1:04:51 Yeah, I know you tell me weigh yourself every morning, you know what I mean? Oh, that, yeah. And also when it comes to projects, like, so when I was in the fraternity at MIT, every pledge class, which is the new guys in the fraternity that have to do pushups and say, yes sir, may have another sir for six months, they have to build something for the house. And so I got this idea that we were gonna build a bar, and it was a fraternity bar, and it was this huge, beautiful bar.

1:05:13 And I worked on that thing like straight for six weeks. Like I didn’t go to physics, I didn’t go to all my classes, I just stayed at home with a saw, and I worked on this thing. And so I have a history of becoming very project focused. And when I do, like I just get crazy. And you know, in my Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and MMA training, like I would watch videos all the time, I would buy all the gear, I would train, you know, when I first started lifting, I was just like reading all the books.

1:05:36 So, when I do decide to do something, I go just super intense. I’m not saying that’s a good quality, but it’s just what I do. I’ll gather that about you, just having the conversations with you, and that’s why I have no doubt of the success of London Real, because I see that intensity, and that’s a quality that most successful people have. There’s always stories about how the obsessiveness of how people go into their training, like flue, starting flueing Mayweather.

1:06:00 Apparently, he finishes in the club and he goes for a jog, you know what I mean? There’s always that intensity, which is associated with people who find success in their respective industries, so, I mean, whether it’s good or bad, it’s working for you, you know what I mean? Yeah, it’s definitely, I mean, it’s an asset, I guess, when it comes to something like this. It just, once I decided to flip the switch, it just became all-encompassing, and so, honestly, I remember building this desk, because this was like an old desk I had at my previous flat, and it had been stored in a closet, and I remember, like, this room, and I remember screwing the screws, and I’m like, I am building this show.

1:06:30 Like, it’s really weird to look at this desk, And I literally built it, and it started, and it was like, and then the name was something, I had always been impressed by things with the name in London, so I took a DJ and audio course from the London School of Sound, and I was like, what a cool name. All they did was take London in front of their name and they get instant credibility, and there was like the London Sleep Institute, and I was like, wow. So for me, I always thought London, first of all, the city has so many connotations in the world, and it has such a great, I don’t know of any other city that means as much to me when you say London.

1:07:07 It’s like so many different things and nuanced things, and it’s not overused, like New York, and so that was always important, that I wanted London in there, and then we were talking about London Real deal, as talking the real deal, and then I remember I said to Nick, or I was like, well, that’s London Real, and then that’s how we went with it, and then once I did it, I did it, and so I lived, eat, breathed London Real, I lived in this studio, I woke up, I checked the Facebook and then I just became obsessed with this show, I guess. So the beginning periods, was this like the honeymoon period? Is everything going well?

1:07:41 And you know, it was exactly what you imagined it to be with London Real, this show the guests you were getting. No, not at all. There’s been no, I don’t think there’s been a honeymoon period on London Real. And like, I don’t know what it looks like from the outside. Yeah, there’s no honeymoon here.

1:07:56 You know, in the beginning, we really had no idea what we were doing. We didn’t even have guests. It was just two guys talking. I didn’t really know what to do with the cameras. I was trying things out and trying experimenting.

1:08:07 I had a little experience on YouTube as far as I had uploaded some videos of me and on a safari on YouTube. And so at first it was just like, well, what are we gonna do? Oh, you know a cool friend, let’s invite him over. Oh, they actually wanna show up and show up on camera. So it was really like we don’t even know what we’re doing or why we’re doing it, but it kind of felt fun and it felt good.

1:08:26 And I got all sorts of feedback. I mean, amazing what happens when you do something like this that the negative feedback you get from your friends and your family, you know, it’s fascinating. It’s something that people don’t, people get uncomfortable when people around them change, you know, I really noticed it, you know. So what was some of the feedback? I mean, where was it coming from the most?

1:08:46 You know, people are always like, you know, my friends don’t support my startup and my family doesn’t support my startup. And I remember going to my Facebook page and like 10% of my friends had liked London Real. And like, I told them all, this is my life, for three months I had been doing it, I’d sent people shows about my best friend. I was like, have you watched one of my shows? Could you watch this?

1:09:06 No, I’m too busy. So, and they hadn’t even liked my page. And so I was like, wow, you know, and so that’s when I learned, if you do a startup or a show like this, you can’t rely on your friends and family, and you shouldn’t rely on your friends and family. Just like a startup, you have to go out there and find your audience, and this is one of the hurdles, and this is one of the hurdles, and if you can’t jump over that hurdle, then you die, and you know what, you should die.

1:09:28 And I emailed Joe Rogan in Red Band, and I said, how do you guys do your audio, and how do you guys do your video? And you know what they told me? Nothing, okay? And that was a great sign, because you know what, if I had been a punk, then I would have just punked out. No, they never told me how.

1:09:42 This is the point, if you need to figure it out, and you need to go figure it out, and I still, when I get emails now, I’m like, part of me doesn’t wanna tell someone, because if you really want it, then you’re gonna figure it out. And if you don’t, then you’re not. So I’m glad they never got back to me and like I had to figure it out yourself You know and this is back in the day before everyone was podcasting now three years ago And you know getting your podcast on iTunes was like not obvious and so you know there was no honeymoon It was still hard. We’re like, you know people didn’t want to come on our show. We got guests We got people showing up. We didn’t know what to ask them. We didn’t know who was watching. No one was watching Nobody would go to our page You know we were like 200 people would watch the show and like we didn’t know what we were doing people were like this This is stupid.

1:10:23 What are you doing? I tell people in the city what I was doing and they were like, like really, Brian’s fucking lost. I still think they think I’ve lost. I do. And I think like, I don’t really have any contact with people I used to work with, you know, one or two guys I’ve stayed in touch with.

1:10:37 But I think for most of them, likes, they don’t want to know what I do. And I think it’s a subconscious thing. I think, I think for a few things, maybe they don’t give a shit what I’m doing. Fair enough. Maybe I am insane.

1:10:48 Fair enough. So part of it, if you live a certain way and if you do a job and a certain lifestyle, then subconsciously that’s right. And if you see someone doing something that you’re not doing, then you just don’t even want to engage with them because it’s like, well, I don’t even want to engage with the fact that he’s doing something that he loves or something that’s different. And so I don’t have any contact with that crew. I mean, that’s the area of me and you can entirely relate.

1:11:13 As a performer, I know exactly how that feels. And whenever someone messages me, I always say, as a new entertainer or new artist, don’t expect your fans to be your friends, because they’re not entitled to it at the end of the day. I mean, just because we’re friends doesn’t mean you have to like what I’m doing. And that’s the biggest expectation that people have, that the people around them are going to support them. But that’s the worst thing you can think.

1:11:35 You have to be prepared that no one’s going to support you and you’ve got to find those guys that want to support what you’re doing. So yeah, I can totally relate in that area. So at this point, London Real is just struggling. You’re putting it together. And it seemed like it starts to come together and then you and Nick, I mean, first of all is like, the first question is what happened between you guys?

1:11:55 I mean, I think you’ve addressed it in a video, but maybe for those who don’t know what happened. And secondly, how did that feel? That must’ve been like another down point. I mean, you’ve felt you’ve discovered yourself. You felt you finally got something going that you wanna do and then it kind of just splits in two.

1:12:11 Good questions. Just a couple of milestones for the show that we had like after like six or eight months or maybe about a year actually. So we’d kind of had just friends of friends and we started getting a few like kind of big guests on and then Rogan reached out to us and that was like a huge moment for the show. It was like something we never expected that would happen in my wildest dreams. I never thought we’d be invited on his show.

1:12:35 And so like I thought maybe if he came through London we might get him on the show but we weren’t even at that level at that point. So that was like a really big thing. And then for him to invite us out there and then for us to go and make it happen, because like a lot of people in life, they actually don’t step up to certain opportunities. So I always recognize the fact that we went there and we showed up and we, because people are weird sometimes, people will sabotage themselves sometimes.

1:12:55 So like that was really big and like certain interviews with like Dorian Yates and Graham Hancock. I mean, we were really getting some momentum. And I mean, just as an aside, like it’s hard to thank, Joe Rogan enough for doing that. And I tried to maybe look at the little mini London Real sometimes and have young people on. And hopefully try to give them an audience or expose them that someday some of that good energy will come back.

1:13:21 But that was just a crazy thing to your mind. I mean, I really felt like we were on a planet on Mars broadcasting a signal out in the solar system. And then finally, one day, somebody broadcast a signal back and said, we hear you. And it was like the weirdest thing. So I mean, I could tell you stories about that.

1:13:35 But we went and did that. And then I think it was probably, I guess, 14 months in that Nick and I stopped doing the show together. So let’s talk about that. Let’s address the elephant in the room. So what happened?

1:13:48 What happened? OK, so as I said before, I mean, I was doing this 24-7. This became my life for good or bad. And I mean, I guess it still is right now, for good or bad. It’s just something that I don’t know.

1:14:01 Everything in my life, everything good This happened to me in the last three years, maybe has been a derivative of this show, whether it’s people I’ve met or things that I’ve done or the person I’ve become, and so I became obsessed with this show. For Nick, it was something he came once a week to do, and it was less an obsession with him than it was with me, of course, and of course it was always gonna be my thing and my project and my production, and I was constantly obsessed with that. And so, that was always the case, and we kinda knew that.

1:14:33 And it was getting to the point where I was just kind of wondering what direction we were going in. Some days I would feel like I was trying to have guests over and like ultimately we’re in the entertainment business. And I don’t know anything about the entertainment business but I do know that when you have a guest here you need to be interested in them or at least pretend like you are. Because if I’m not interested in my guest, how can you expect anyone watching to be interested in?

1:14:56 And there was like little things started to grate at me and I was just like, all right, dude. Little things like. Little things I was like, are you interested in doing this? you want to do this because if you don’t like tell me and we had had discussions back and forth and I think I’m also super intense and I’m probably too intense sometimes and I probably push people for much more than they’re willing to do you know if I was a startup founder I would probably be expecting everyone to work Sundays and like all this stuff yeah so it just got to a point where I was just like this is Mike my baby and it feels like you are not completely invested in what we’re doing here and sometimes I don’t really like your energy and And some days I feel like, I don’t know, we’re not going in the same direction with this show.

1:15:36 And some days I’m like, are you even wanna be here? And I’m doing this all of my life, I’m putting my whole heart and soul in this, and it just doesn’t feel like you kinda really give a shit. And so, I started feeling this way and we had talks about this, and we had talks about like, well, okay, fine. I’m like, if you don’t wanna do this, then tell me. And I had said that before, and that’s probably me being intense.

1:15:56 And maybe I was wrong, and maybe I was wrong. But ultimately, I had to make a call. And so, ultimately, I think it was in January that year where I was just like, look dude, I wanna go in a different direction. You know, we had had a couple co-hosts in between there and I was just like, I wanna do this show, I wanna have other people in here, I like having other co-hosts, I like having other energy in the room and I’m like, I wanna, this is what I’m gonna do here, this is like an obsession for me and I just don’t feel like I wanna do this with you anymore.

1:16:23 So, that was a decision I made. It was a really hard decision. I didn’t tell anyone about it, I didn’t tell my family or my girlfriend or anything, I just made it. and it sucked and Nick didn’t like it and I’m sure that’s the last thing he wanted to hear, I think. Now, whether he saw it coming, probably, we’d probably talk back and forth for a few months and like I said, I’m really intense.

1:16:47 I’m probably not the funnest person to work with. And in my Where’s Nick rant video, which you haven’t seen, I think I’d probably say that. I’m like, you wouldn’t wanna work with me anyways and I’m really intense, but that’s what I did. And so that was over. A lot of people weren’t impressed.

1:17:03 A lot of people wanted to know what happened. I didn’t respond very well to that. Part of me is like, this isn’t Real Housewives of America. This isn’t the metro that you read every day and hear about the princess said this and the scandal says this. This is London Real, where we talk about topics and we talk about people.

1:17:19 And we talk about issues. We’re not talking about our relationship. So a part of me was just like, I don’t give a shit what you think, and I don’t care if you wanna know about our personal relationship. London Real’s never been about that. London Real’s never been about, look, Nick and I are this.

1:17:37 I mean, I guess it was the narrative of us, but I didn’t think it was anyone’s business what was going on. And then ultimately people were like, I don’t wanna watch, cause Nick’s not there. And my attitude was, then don’t watch. So I was always like, fuck you, I don’t give a shit. I’m not doing this to be your buddy.

1:17:52 I’m not doing this for you to tell me that I’m great. I’m not doing this for you to tell me that I love you, Brian. Like, if you don’t want to watch, then don’t. Goodbye. I don’t care.

1:18:00 And so I’m sure I lost some people I don’t even know. I haven’t spoken with Nick Sense. And that was that. And that was the new part of the show. There was a lot of hate.

1:18:12 It was hard. But I don’t regret that decision. And I never have. And it was what had to be done. And sometimes you have to make hard decisions in life.

1:18:22 For me, I needed to move on and get a new peer group in my life, and quite honestly and retrospectually, I think I needed to go solo. I think I was also using a co-host as a way of not taking responsibility or not putting myself out there or not taking control of my show, and I think I needed to just stand up maybe a little bit on my own. But I take full responsibility and I did it. So that’s what happened. I haven’t had any contact with him.

1:18:50 I don’t expect to, I don’t wish him any bad feelings, but there’s not gonna be a reunion show anytime soon. We’re not gonna be on, I’m on this new journey. And for me, it was always about where we’re going with the show and who are we gonna talk to next and what message we’re gonna get out there and what are we gonna do, what are we gonna explore. So for me, it wasn’t really about the personnel. And so that’s why I was always like, I don’t know if this matters.

1:19:12 So, you know. Things happens, I mean, in so many scenarios, you started off doing something kind of like for fun And then it grows and then I guess sometimes people grow with you sometimes people don’t it’s not as easy as black and white as that But I guess it’s always it’s all a process. So this wasn’t really a downward turn for you This was kind of like you was this a positive or negative for you I mean, it was a hard decision and it it it was not fun to do but it was I mean in terms of the show Sorry, I asked the question wrong was it a positive. I mean you said it’s the right direction I mean, did you look at it the next day? Like okay, we’re gonna keep moving or was there a period where you’re like I made the decision. I didn’t have to yeah, I could I could have continued You know, I don’t know. I mean, I’m not gonna I guess I could equate this to a relationship that you know You need to end so I could have continued just like I could have continued working in banking But I wouldn’t have been happy and I would have been frustrated and I would have been like this is really bugging me and getting Me down. So I was like I got to make it no, but I never regretted that decision the next day I was like, let’s go let’s find new directions for the show Let’s get new co-hosts new energy and those co-hosts and have included wonderful people on the show including you Thank you. And and so for me, it’s been all positive now if some people

1:20:17 Miss him or miss our relationship I get it and you know Nick brought a different perspective to me to the show and that’s cool it’s just I was dealing with a lot of things under the surface and it was a decision that I had to make so there you go how was that? It was great but I think it was genuine and in terms of now we’re on to the topic of the show so with the show when I looked through the questions a lot of people want to know what is the goal for London Real how does London Real monetize what’s your typical day like what’s what’s the whole dynamics of explain it to someone who’s asking you for the first time what’s along the real picture to them and let them know what. Great question.

1:20:53 And this is probably going to be its own clip. How can I make my own London Real and how can I make, turn it into a business and how can I make it a successful enterprise? And here’s the answer. Good luck. You know, it’s as, as when I was on Joe Rogan, I kind of put out not a challenge, but an an invitation to anyone around the world that wanted to start their own reel to please do and we would help in any way I can.

1:21:18 We put a page up on our website at one point telling people how to do it and I always tell people to send me a pilot on YouTube and I’ve pushed lots of people and Melbourne Reel and Dublin Reel and Midwest Reel, those guys have done really well and they really stuck with it and now there’s a new one, Vancouver Reel, those guys are doing awesome, great guests. And so a lot of people start and they’re like, yeah podcasting is great, look at me. people show up and it’s like great and then they magically edit themselves and they go online this is like great and then I get sponsors this is great but you know it’s it’s not like that and you find out when you first start podcasting it’s like man just getting guests to show up every week is it is an effort you might do it for three weeks but just to keep it going is an effort and then to try to get any kind of monetization from that it’s just impossible you know what it’s like on YouTube and almost any YouTube star I mean go to New York Times right now and search up the last five YouTube or YouTube articles there are There are quotes in there from YouTubers saying you cannot make money on YouTube.

1:22:15 YouTube’s a platform but it’s not a business and so I never expected it to be a business. YouTube’s a wonderful platform to scale and get your message to the world. As you know, why I hate school but love education, it just really breaks myself. You have wonderful videos and so you’re able to reach millions of people that way and so am I. But if you’re relying on YouTube ad revenues, that’s not a business model.

1:22:37 And if you’re relying on product placement, it’s not a business model, unless you’re the slow-mo guys, or I would say vice, but they put so much money into their production, I’m sure they don’t make money from that. So my point is, is this, is it, I think you should try to start your own real, and I think you should, what I call broadcast yourself, and I’m thinking about giving a talk where I talk about that, because the transformation in yourself is just overwhelming and amazing, because you become a different person, and you engage with your community, and like the the Vancouver guys, real guys, they are just loving it and they’re becoming better people and they’re engaging and they’re getting feedback and doing that is, it’s like having a family. There are payouts that are just incomprehensible.

1:23:16 But if you wanna try to make it a business, I think you’re gonna have to work very hard. I think very few people make money in the podcasting business. I think the Joe Rogans and the Mark Marans of the world have big enough audiences where they can monetize with their audio ads. But for the rest of us, I think it’s just kind of hard work, this is no business like I had in the city by no means, I don’t think this is a business, to be really honest. I think it’s just not, unless I am a writer, an author, or I’m a performer like a comedian, or I give talks like Kiyosaki and I have some way to monetize this vibe of London Real, which I don’t, then I don’t think this is a business in itself and I don’t want to discourage people because I think it’s a journey that’s a wonderful journey and I might meet my next business partner sitting in this chair, and I’ve met so many wonderful people.

1:24:07 But as a means to an end, I don’t think it’s business. And maybe that’s good. Maybe that keeps the suckers out. Maybe that shows that only the podcasters are doing it with this energy of, I want to engage and I want to broadcast, and maybe it’s reserved for people that aren’t looking for the quick payout. If anything, I don’t think you’re discouraging anyone.

1:24:25 I think you’re inspiring people, because you can sit here and say that the incentive and the byproduct is not money, but there’s something more valuable and you’re still doing it day in, day out. So there must be something greater, the money out there that’s driving you to do it, if you know what I mean. I was in Christmas in New York last year and I sat there and I had a week to myself and I’m like, are we going to keep doing this? People ask me. Sometimes I walk outside my door in the morning and I’m like, what the fuck are you doing?

1:24:50 Like seriously, you’re making YouTube videos and people come to your house and talk. Like what are you doing? Are you insane? I think some people would think I’m insane. And so, I said to myself in New York a year ago, I was like, are we gonna do this?

1:25:02 And I was like, we’re gonna do this for another year, because look at all these wonderful things that happen to me, whether personal development, or I meet someone like the Bulletproof guys, and they become a sponsor, and I become totally integrated with their brand, and I love what they’re doing, or I meet you, or I meet so many cool people that, or I started Silicone Reel, our tech show, because I met someone on the show, Colin Pyle, and look at the great things that happened to me in the last year. And so, part of me is like, how can I not continue doing this? because I’m gonna be like Brian 3.0 if I keep doing this.

1:25:31 And I don’t even know where that guy is. And if I ever stopped, like if I ever go back to banking, like none of that happens. My growth curve goes like back to zero and I’ll get my paycheck and like, so I think about the money in banking, but I couldn’t last if I went back there. I think I go crazy. But at the same time, I question what I’m doing here every single day.

1:25:51 So speaking on a daily basis, someone asked what’s your typical day like and how does it compare to the indie, How does this indie lifestyle compare to the major financial industry? Right, good question. I mean, in finance, you usually have to be on the desk at like 7 a.m., you’d work till six, you’d be out on the town at nice restaurants, entertaining clients, it’s maybe five days a week kind of thing. This isn’t 24-7, but it’s very close to 24-7. So I’m here six days of the week, I used to come here seven days of the week in the studio.

1:26:21 My routine now is wake up in the morning, I do my meditation in the morning, That’s that’s kind of a step that I like to do and I come in this is I don’t live here It’s separated from my house, which I think is important. So when I come here, I’m in work mode And then you know, it’s always about for London Real. It’s like who’s the next guest who’s the next sponsor? How can we improve the sound? How can we improve the video? How can we think of a different business venture?

1:26:44 How can we start a new show like Silicon real? How can we monetize that? So for me, it’s like Like if I ever have a free hour, I can be like, well, then why the fuck don’t you have, you know, uh, I don’t know, uh, president Barack Obama here. If you don’t have Obama, then you’re just slacking. So get on the, get on the computer and start sending out some emails.

1:27:04 Or how come your Red Bull is a sponsoring your show? No, really. And why aren’t you out there making that happen? So for me, it’s like, there’s always so many things to do. And it’s this, it’s, it’s again, me not beating myself up too much because I think when I do that I go the other way and try to detach from the world but like so my day is like that and it’s fun too I mean I love doing shows and the people I meet man I’ve got a really funny thing I get these like little mini love affairs with guests like I’m a pretty analytic person and I’m obviously can be cold and ruthless as you’ve seen earlier and I can be but like I must say with like guests you know when I sit down with my guests every week whether it be on the tech show or this show man I love being there I love communicating with them For me, it’s this really special moment to meet someone.

1:27:46 When you put these microphones on and the cameras on, it’s like the conversation goes up and I can ask people anything. I can be like, what was it like when you totally screwed your life up? And I can ask them. And like, I couldn’t ask my best friend that, been hanging out for two years, I might not ever ask him that. He’d be like, what’s up with you?

1:28:02 But like on a podcast, you have a license to have these really intense conversations. It gets to where I don’t even like hanging out with people like in social situations because I can’t have these intense conversations. So like, I love show days, I get really, I get a little stressed, I prepare, I watch other YouTube videos, I research, I try to get all the information so the conversation can flow, and I really have like a partial love affair with them.

1:28:25 I get really into them, afterwards I’m like, oh this is great, we’re going to hang out together, I’ll be your godfather and your kids, you know, and then a few days later it slows down and then sometimes I’ll stay in touch and sometimes I’ll never hear from them again, and that’s like the process, you know, and I’ve had some, you know, crushes and some heartbreaks. Some heartbreaks. It’s funny. I mean, even Marc Maron has a show in his TV series about that, about him kind of becoming friends with one of his guests and stuff.

1:28:50 And so it is very emotional, like what I kind of go through. But it’s great. And if I don’t do a show for like a week or two, I get agitated. Really? Yeah.

1:28:59 And I get angry. I’m like, why am I doing this? Because I really, I think I really crave that kind of interaction. One thing I’ve always noticed about your show is that there’s always a certain caliber of guests. What’s the curation process like?

1:29:11 I mean, when you started, you always maintained a high standard, even though you didn’t have the credibility or the reputation to get those guests. Was it always that we still need to make sure we get this type of particular guy? What’s the one key thing that every guest has to have if you’re bringing them onto the show? I mean, I always think of Groucho Marx’s line, you know, I’d never want to belong to a club that would have me as a member. So I always think I need to push and find a guest that would typically never come on on London.

1:29:38 You know, so I want to always get the guy that is going to the BBC or which we’re trying to put out of business, by the way, just to be clear. And I’ve upset a few people this week by saying that. So I get emails from agents saying we actually like the BBC and we don’t appreciate that you’re trying to put them out of business. For real. Seriously.

1:29:55 For real. For big stars. Say that. You must be threatening them then. I know.

1:30:00 It’s funny, right? So I’m always thinking why can’t we get Barack Obama to sit down? And you know, why can’t we get the big of the biggest? I’m always thinking big and I’m always trying to get that next level person at the same point I’ve had some of the best talks with people that aren’t quote-unquote famous, you know So we’ve had some of the great conversations like our big episodes like Dorian Yates, you know Who would have thought a six-time mr Olympia bodybuilder would have been watched a half a million times I’m great on my show and it was great show and I wasn’t even a bodybuilder fanboy So I knew of him, but I wasn’t like Dorian and so sometimes I mean many times it’s like a box of chocolates You just don’t know what you’re gonna get and you know, you know, even you you’re a I didn’t know who you were when you came Down and you’re a different guy than when I even knew you two years ago And like so you never know who’s gonna sit down So like I’m always ready for them to be the greatest star and I always want to give them a platform to be the greatest star But for me, I just want to make sure it’s someone that you’re like Wow, when you look at your iPhone and you’re like are your you know podcast downloading app and you’re like Jesus I really want to listen to that guy or in the first three minutes. You’re like, I want to listen to this guy So, you know, no crazy people no kooks I’ve had the levitators that people want on the show and people that spoke with aliens. I’m sure they’re aliens exist

1:31:08 But like I don’t want them on my show because like I have to maintain a certain my credibility Yeah, we talked about psychedelics. And yeah, I had a show on DMT. That’s our biggest show and I get into the psych We’ll get into that but the same point like I you know I have a credibility meter and I’m like, come on really and so I’m still very conservative and Republican in my views and so for me I like bigger is better So like, you know the Neil deGrasse Tyson was big because he was a big star, but he also we had a great conversation and So it’s really hard to say who’s the next London Real guest Silicon real is easy like I’m getting the top CEOs and founders of these huge tech companies So for that, it’s like we’re kind of already at the top but for London Real I’m like, I’m always trying to get the guest that says no, I’m trying to get sting on here I’m trying to get these guys that are like, what are you crazy?

1:31:51 It’s in shortage, you know, and so that makes it hard because like I’m always always pushing and it’s never good enough because I always should be doing better guess why, so. So going on to the topic of guess, so let’s say who’s the best guess, who’s the worst guess, we’ve had a few private conversations about this, I don’t know if you’re gonna reveal it, who’s the worst guess, and then which guess is the biggest surprise that you never expected to be sitting in the sea opposite you? Oh, to actually sit down with me.

1:32:19 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the Neil deGrasse Tyson thing was kinda strange because the week after I interviewed him, I looked on his Twitter, and he was doing a selfie with Obama in the White House. And I was like, really? So that was from a starstruck perspective. That was kind of big.

1:32:36 I was like, is that happening? But I kind of gotten used to that. I got practiced to it. I’m not like, wow, anymore, because what you find, you sit down with most people, they’re normal. They have normal conversations.

1:32:45 I mean, like, 99% of the people I’ve sat down with are wonderful, nice, warm people. And I’m always pleasantly surprised, because you always form this idea in your mind like, Oh, this is going to be that guy, or this is going to be that guy. And they actually end up being really nice, wonderful, cool people that have their shit together and have something interesting to say. I’ve had some people that have been a little rude. You and I know some people that are just like, they don’t treat you very well.

1:33:10 I had one guy come in, I’ll say it was, it was Jim Rogers. I love Jim Rogers. He’s a great financial analyst. But when he came in the door, he was on his mobile and he didn’t talk to me for like five minutes. And at one point, I just stopped and I put my hand out and I’m like, hi Jim, I’m Brian Rose.

1:33:22 Just like babbling on his mobile and he was just like oh hello and I was like so sometimes you’re like you know you know what’s going on but like people are in their own lives they just think we’re media I think we’re a little bit more than media so and sometimes people are like that or that they’ll be crazy or like later they’ll say oh I didn’t like the show and people you think would be very confident or like I’m worried about what I said about my mama and they’re like can you take that out and like we don’t edit at London Real so no we can’t take it out but it’s weird sometimes you’re surprised by kind of You know what people say but but like names like free. No, you don’t have to include me. Give me a silly fix Um, you know, I’m just trying to think like Mike Dolce was a big guy Eric Thomas when you and I hear them I mean Eric Thomas is the hip-hop preacher. He’s such a powerful guy and you know to actually have Eric here in retrospect is a big thing He’s an amazing he’s gone even stellar and and you know, he’s so congruent and he is ET You know, he was really here with us. He was really president. That was that was amazing And being on Rogue and Show was still hard to imagine that we were actually there.

1:34:24 That was probably the most that’s been big. Edo Portal, the Israeli movement guy, I really like Edo. I think he’s struggling with his message and his art, and I’m attracted to people that are struggling in life, and I think he’s got a great message, but he doesn’t know how to deliver it, and he’s almost like a messiah and doesn’t want to be a messiah, and I really liked Edo. He’s the guy I’d want to spend a month on an island with, Edo. ask that and the questions. I mean Robert Greene, Roger Gracie, Graham Hancock was here for the first time and he came out of the weed closet and said he had been smoking marijuana for 16 years and he had stopped after he drank ayahuasca. He actually told us that story before he told it on Rogan and like I was sitting here with Nick and like I mean he was being so honest about his own failures as a human being and he was like I smoked weed for 16 years and I became paranoid and I was telling my wife she was running around and like a A man that powerful to break down and be that honest, I was like, wow, and he talked about his father dying and he wasn’t there, and he was almost in tears.

1:35:22 And I was like, those were powerful moments. I’m gonna give you a few more. Stitch, the UFC cut man, such a cool guy, such a nice guy, such a warm guy. The UFC fighter, Dan Hardy. And then our psychedelic episodes were big.

1:35:37 Those journeys I went through with DMT and the ayahuasca, I mean, they changed me as a person. They gave London Real the identity as well, And that’s something I did with Nick as well. So that was something that wouldn’t have happened without the show and without him. So now we’re on the subject matter, I guess, of the whole psychedelics and that aspect, which is quite a prominent theme throughout your show. And it’s probably, like you said, it gives this identity.

1:36:01 Let’s speak about it. I mean, what does that do for you? I mean, you talked about your struggle with addiction in the past. So how does that work for you going into another realm, which is potentially seen as drugs, you know what I mean, Yeah, that’s a great question, and when we started the show, Nick was like Ayahuasca, and part of the Joe Rogan experience early on, I watched an episode with Aubrey Marcus, who is now the CEO, I believe, on it, and I watched Aubrey talk about Ayahuasca, and if Aubrey’s listening, thank you Aubrey, because that’s the reason I did Ayahuasca, because I watched him on Joe’s show, and I was terrified of the experience of Ayahuasca.

1:36:40 I’m a control freak, when I did get messed up in the past, I like to do it in a way I control that would make me feel good. And so I know how to drink, I know what it’s gonna make me do, I know when it’s time to go home. I know these things, but with a psychedelic, you’re not in control, and you’re putting some really uncomfortable places. And so as a, like I said, a control freak or someone that always wants to know I’m in charge, it was something I didn’t wanna do, and it was something I was really not interested in doing, and I was quite terrified of.

1:37:12 But I was also curious, and I think ayahuasca is something that you find at a certain point in your life. So when you find yourself watching those YouTube videos about ayahuasca, or coming on London Real, it’s a reason, because there’s a time when you should find it and a time when you shouldn’t find it. I wish, honestly, I had found it in my 20s. I think it would have, I don’t know if it would have changed my life. No, it would have changed my life.

1:37:32 It would have made me understand myself a lot quicker. I think I would have really understand Why are you hiding from yourself, Brian? Why are you running from yourself? Why are you hard on yourself? Why can’t you understand why you behave?

1:37:43 Love yourself a little bit, accept yourself, and then now let’s do something important. I mean, I think an ayahuasca ceremony when I was 27 would have altered massively the course of my life. But I didn’t know about it. I didn’t know it was an option. I would have been the first person to do it, probably.

1:37:59 If you could have even said, Brian, you could stop drinking and take this stuff and get a whole different perspective on your life. I would have been like, let’s do it. I’m sure I would have, you know? And but, you know, there wasn’t much education at the time and people weren’t talking about it and magic mushrooms. I hate that term because it makes it sound hippy and dippy.

1:38:16 And I hate that term and I don’t use that term. I call it psilocybin. And, you know, when it comes to psychedelics, which are basically the big ones are ayahuasca, which is a, you know, a brew that you drink that’s been used in South America for thousands of years as archaeological evidence for that. The psilocybin mushrooms, which have been around for a long time, but were kind of made public, I think in Mexico in the fifties when people saw the tribes taking it and then acid, which was LSD, which was mass manufactured in the sixties and the government got very scared because you can make millions of these things, you know, quite cheaply.

1:38:48 And so these are all kind of the psychedelic category where, you know, you’re really going into your mind and you’re going to places that you’re not going to be comfortable and you get to investigate things about yourself. And you know, it’s going to be a little scary and you should be scared. I always tell people, if you’re going to do an ayahuasca ceremony or any of these psychedelic experiences, you should be scared. It’s not like meditation, and it’s not like you’re going to have some MDMA at a concert.

1:39:15 This is you’re doing work. You’re doing work, and you should be doing it in the Terence McKenna way, which is turn the lights out, take the phone off the hook, tell people you’re away from the weekend, get on your sofa, take a big, heavy dose, and be with it, and that’s what you got to do. And that’s the way you should do psychedelics, in my opinion. You can do whatever you want. It’s a free country, but I don’t think it’s the best thing to pop some mushrooms and go to a concert.

1:39:38 I think it’s really about investigating yourself. Sorry to cut you off, because I wanted to get back to that point about, because someone actually asked, when was your first experience, and was it in a cold, controlled environment? If they’re interested, what was that like? So funny enough, I had gone to Amsterdam like 10 years ago with a buddy, and of course, while we were there, we took a bunch of psilocybin mushrooms when we were out one time. We barely made it back to the hotel and I fought every minute of the way and it was one of the worst experiences I ever had and I was like, I don’t ever want to do that again.

1:40:08 I want to do the drugs that make me feel good. I don’t want to do these ones that, you know, and the challenge my mind and make me feel really uncomfortable and like, so I was no way. And so when Nick was like, let’s do the ayahuasca, I was like, man, I don’t want to do this. And when we met with a shaman, which we call Susie, which hopefully we’ll have her on the show someday, we talked to Susie and I met with her and I said, look, I’m worried about this and she’s like, that’s not what this is about, you’re going to be in my home, it’s a controlled space, it’s going to be okay, you’re going to drink this, I’m going to guide you through it.

1:40:39 And so ultimately I had to take a leap and take a chance, but we went for it. And that was my first experience, it was controlled, it was a very great experience, it was good and I ended up doing two more of those that year, it was like a goal I set myself to go back in, even though the last thing you want to do after an ayahuasca ceremony after you throw up and you feel sick and is do another one, but I just made sure I did two more. And they were, my second one was a huge experience for me.

1:41:05 I took a big dose. I was stressed about it all day and Susie came over and she said, I said, so how much are you gonna give me? And she said, Mother Ayahuasca told me you need a big dose. And she poured me this big old cup and it was a really hard night. I wrote a blog article about it called Ayahuasca and Me.

1:41:25 I don’t know, it’s been read by a lot of people and it was really about taking me back to that seven year old boy and seeing this kid that built all these walls around him and said I’m not gonna engage emotionally with the world because the world’s fucked me up and the world’s told me that it’s not reliable and it’s not gonna be there for me and so I’m not gonna engage and I’m gonna just keep an arm’s length from everything and it was just like stop being this guy, stop being this guy, allow yourself to be exposed because if you don’t love, you can’t be loved and it was big. I went pretty deep that day, and I don’t know if I’m gonna ever go much deeper, but afterwards, I moved in with my long-time girlfriends, Mariana, who I’ve been with for six and a half years, you know her, and I moved in with her daughter, who’s my daughter now, Gabriela, and I moved in with them, and my history of cohabitation with females has been a horrible, horrible- Can we get into that just for a second?

1:42:19 I just wanna carry it, because I wanna get to the family part- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ll get that, I’ll get that, yeah, yeah. and direct you to psychedelics. Just before we go off to psychedelics topics and into that issue with family, what’s your relationship like with psychedelics at the moment? Good question. So that year I did three ceremonies with ayahuasca.

1:42:35 I just felt like you need to get this kind of healing done even though it’s not comfortable, but I felt like I really needed to push myself and get those three ceremonies done. So I did that, like I said, the second one was a big one, the third one, not as much. And after that I’ve done some solo controlled experiments with psilocybin. So again, big doses, four grams, four and a half grams. I don’t think you need that much, maybe even three and a half grams.

1:43:01 Alone, in the dark, by myself, take it, be with yourself, be with the experience for three or four hours, expect some pain, expect some hardships, try to learn from it. I will say, and then I’ve had the one DMT experience, which I chronicle with Alexander Ward, which we saw here. Again, I think the DMT is a great way to get a window in to another world that when you’re a normal conscious being, especially a male, when you walk around and you never have to give your body over to something like maternity, I don’t think you ever have any conception that the world isn’t what you think it is, but when you smoke that DMT for 10 minutes, you’re in another plane.

1:43:40 And I think DMT shows you that that exists. And by knowing that that exists, it makes it hard to take anything in this real world very seriously, including your own success, your own ego, your own feelings. So I think the DMT is important. I only did it that once. And like I said, I’ve done psilocybin since.

1:43:59 What I found was that every three or four months, what I find, here’s my test, Sully, if I’m waiting in the line at like a store or a shop and there’s three people in front of me and they’re not moving very fast and I start getting angry, that’s when I know I need to go have a psychedelic experience because I’m not valuing the life the way it is. I’m not appreciative of the people around me. I’m getting agitated about little things in the world that don’t really matter.

1:44:20 And so I find sometimes I need to be reset. I need to appreciate the relationships around me, the people in my life, my own mortality, the London Real, the show I have, and all these opportunities. And I think it’s a great reminder to have. And that’s why I think the psychedelic experiences can be good. And on a further note, let me just say, I think psilocybin is a great substance because you can use it, and you can, it’s transportable and that kind of thing.

1:44:45 But I must say, I think there’s something very different about the ayahuasca experience. I think it’s more powerful. I think it really takes you back to these roots of a community, of an ecosystem with the world, and a plant-animal relationship that’s really important. I’ve had my most powerful experiences on ayahuasca, where I really think about the people in my life, and I haven’t had that mimicked on psilocybin. If I’m a psilocybin, I go to different places and I experience these things, and sometimes I cry and I have emotions, but afterwards, I don’t really walk away with those big lessons.

1:45:16 So that’s my experience. I think, ideally, in an ideal world, I should be going on an ayahuasca ceremony every year, and that’s what Graham Hancock does, maybe even twice a year, but I need to make that happen. An ayahuasca’s trickier, because you have to schedule the shaman, or go to Peru, and you have to spend a night, and you’re gonna throw up, and all that stuff. But don’t let the purging scare you, it clears the suckers out. Again, it just shows you that you’re ready to make a sacrifice to get that knowledge.

1:45:42 So that’s my relationship with psychedelics. Funny enough, there’s fewer psychedelic shows in the last year. And so, you know, because ultimately London Real is my journey, you know, um, it is. And so you can see the different guests I have and we went heavy psychedelics, I haven’t talked about them in a while. And so this is just me and some people don’t like that.

1:46:01 Some people, uh, somebody sent me a message the other day and said, who are all these, you know, charlatans telling you about success? I don’t know. I’m on a real like success tip these days. I don’t even know why, but, um, you know, I still value the use of psychedelics. I think it’s important to come out of the psychedelic closet like I did.

1:46:17 And I think it’s important for everyone out there to tell people they use psychedelics if they do. That’s the most powerful thing. I mean, funny enough, it hasn’t really changed anything that I do or guest side book or my tech show. I mean, you know, there’s a half a million people that have watched me talk about smoking DMT and I don’t think it’s really affected my life. So I don’t know other repercussions about coming out of the psychedelic closet.

1:46:38 Maybe could I go back to banking? I don’t know. You know, if Barack Obama can write a book about doing coke and smoking weed, I guess I’m okay. So that’s kind of what I have to say about psychedelics. I hope I answered your question.

1:46:51 People ask me all the time where they can get DMT or where they can get ayahuasca in the UK. I can’t respond to your messages. Unfortunately, with this current legal system we’re in, it’s illegal and I just can’t start telling people where to find things that are ridiculously class A drugs. And I just went to the premiere of The Culture High like you did and it’s a great look at why do we have something like a psychedelic, which I don’t call a drug, I call a medicine, why are those illegal when they’re clearly not addictive?

1:47:18 Because I used to love addictive drugs and I’ve only done psychedelics what, seven times or eight times. So they clearly have a lot of potential to really help you grow as a human being. It’s like 20 years of psychoanalysis in one night. You really can sort through some issues that you’re having that are ultimately, you’re hurting yourself. You’re ultimately hurting yourself when you don’t understand yourself.

1:47:42 And the UFC fighter Dan Hardy said really well when he was here and he was really open about ayahuasca and he came out of the closet and Dan Hardy is a commentator for the UFC in the UK and he still came out and Dan said ayahuasca doesn’t change a person. It helps them understand themselves better and he couldn’t have put it better at myself. I still don’t think it changes you. I think it just helps you understand yourself better and understand what’s important in your life.

1:48:08 I think it’s a cure to make you go out and become Mother Teresa, and obviously I haven’t done that, and I can still be a jerk and I can still do bad things to people, but I think I’m a little bit more in touch with things that matter. Yeah, I guess you kind of answered the question. Someone asked, is it possible to maintain a responsible family life while using psychedelics? And I guess you sort of answered that. So we’re gonna go on.

1:48:30 Yeah, it’s impossible to maintain a family life. Is it possible? I think it’s impossible to maintain a family life without psychedelics. I really do. And that’s why that question was fascinating to me because for me, they’re hand in hand.

1:48:41 My family life wouldn’t exist without my psychedelic journey. Definitely not. And my psychedelic journey, my family life is what allows me to do London Real and like keep coming with this energy and keep doing all these, what I think are great things that we do. It’s all because of the family life and because of what I did with the psychedelics. It really is related.

1:49:02 So let’s talk about the family life. Let’s talk about the family. You know, I’m notoriously a pretty private guy, I don’t talk about it much on the show and so I don’t really talk about my family, I make little allusions to Mariana and Gabby who are my family. Like I said, my history of cohabitating with women is like a grave site, just littered with bad decisions and bad relationships, I mean, I might go out with someone for two years and as soon as we move in together, like literally two months later, it’s over and broken up and I just, I think I’ve always had commitment issues or whatever.

1:49:34 And so I was, moving in with them was a really big step, especially with a girl that was eight years old. And funny enough, before that second ayahuasca ceremony, we had planned to move in together and we had taken a trip to Barcelona, funny enough, and they drove me out of my mind. And when we got back from Barcelona, I said, we’re not moving in together. I don’t want anything to do with you girls as far as living together. And Gabby was like, changed school.

1:49:58 She’d quit school and all that stuff. And I was just like, not happening. And I had the ayahuasca ceremony like later that week and I knew that mother ayahuasca was just going to be like, come here Brian, let’s talk. And she did. She talked to me real quick and she was just like, funny enough, most of the ceremony was about me, but quickly she was just like, that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.

1:50:18 You’re an idiot. You’re moving in with them, stopping such a jerk. She’s literally said that in the first like three minutes. I’m talking about a spirit voice that talks to you in the psychedelics if you don’t know who mother ayahuasca is. So she sorted that out really quick and I moved in with them.

1:50:31 So yeah, that’s my family. You met them. Yeah, we played. What was it? Oh, yeah.

1:50:37 Her and Linda were singing away on that karaoke. Yeah. So that’s been a big part. I was not that guy. I was not the family guy.

1:50:44 Like I said, I’ve never been married. I never believed in marriage, maybe because of my parents’ divorce. I don’t know. I didn’t want anything to do with that. I pretty much thought kids were not going to happen and I didn’t know what they wanted.

1:50:54 I never wanted that. I was always like, that’s not me. But I mean, just having a relationship with a child is really important. And I actually did some mentoring before having Gabby, where I kind of mentored a boy in Hackney for a year. So I obviously was going to that kind of, you know, giving back or parental roots.

1:51:12 Funny, you look at yourself in retrospect and I obviously was, and I wanted a community and I wanted to kind of give back and I wanted to kind of mentor a young person. And so, you know, Gabby was probably one of the greatest gifts I’ve ever had. And you know, the funniest thing is, it’s really even creepy, is that I was seven when my parents were divorced. And Gabby was like six or seven when I met her. And her father’s not in the picture.

1:51:32 And so it was like weird. You have a chance now for the child to have a father figure. So it’s heavy. And I love being a father. I take it very seriously as everything I do.

1:51:44 Probably too seriously when I’m going on about math homework with Gabby. And it’s like 10 o’clock at night. And there are some tears. And I’m like, we got to get this right. She’s like, what’s going on?

1:51:54 Why do I get this? So I take it really seriously. But I get so much strength from the family. And I have to give a shout out to my girl, Mariana. She’s fantastic.

1:52:03 Amazing. Food is amazing as well. Yeah, yeah, she’s fantastic. She’s Bulgarian. I’ve been with her for six and a half years now.

1:52:10 And I’m going to put this in, and again, I’m going to quote Iced Tea. And I mean this with all the respect in the world. But Iced Tea has a saying. And he says, he says, 10 funky hoes is worth one down ass bitch. And what that’s saying is that if you have one solid girl in your life, it’s worth 10 funky hoes that look like whatever and do whatever.

1:52:37 And that’s it. She’s my Bonnie. I’m the Clyde. She’ll be back to back with me shooting it out somewhere. She’s a very tough, tough girl who fights for things she believes in.

1:52:48 She fought very hard for her daughter for a couple years. And that’s a whole other story. And I just saw, for the people in her corner, she backs passionately. And she’s just also such a really nice, warm person. So she’s an asset.

1:53:02 I have to definitely attribute the success that this show has had to my family life. Because when I go home at night, they’re there. And they totally support everything I do. And Mariana Cooks and Gabby’s there. And that’s my base.

1:53:14 Brad Burton, one of my guests on here, crazy-ass dude. But he’s like, you’ve got to have your base. And they’re really on my base. And if they weren’t there, man, I couldn’t do this. I mean, if they weren’t there and I was going home to an empty place at night being like, what the fuck, Brian?

1:53:26 I would come in here and I’d be in a bad mood and I probably would stop doing this. So I can’t emphasize enough how important they are for doing what I’m doing here. And kids really change you, man. They make you realize what’s important. Sometimes I’ll be like, Gabby’s homework or you gotta book a stellar guest or you gotta make some money.

1:53:44 And it’s just like, well, what’s really important? Like, what’s really important? Like the homework’s important. So it’s like, I really have to prioritize about raising a child, being a bit selfless, being like, okay, that’s the next generation, then we gotta push them forward, so. But in relation to that, what’s the biggest fear you’ve had to, like, this whole journey, we’ve been through your whole journey, what would you pinpoint as the biggest fear you had to overcome to get to this point you are at now?

1:54:09 Biggest fear, biggest fear. Yeah, I mean, it was funny, when I first started this show, one of my best friends in New York said, Brian Rose coming on camera to talk about his feelings himself like he’s like that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of so like you know just me expressing myself and allowing people inside my heart as you know from the show perspective from a personal perspective even me performing every week like this is not me you know I mean I’m not even very good in social situations you probably see me so like I’m like not always the best and so just like doing that on a regular basis is it’s challenge for me it’s it’s hard and I guess if that’s a fear I mean I had a little fears like Just coming on the air was a fear and then like every week getting anxious for guests and then that goes away and then You know speaking in front of people like I did like that goes away And I did a live thing this morning and like that was a little fear And so I’m just trying to get over these little fears, you know making the leap and the psychedelics I was kind of scared of that and so I don’t know if there’s been one but it’s been a series of fears series in Like this show is really you know, I guess I ran towards this show like I ran towards ayahuasca So maybe part of me is pushing me towards those obstacles and those fears.

1:55:20 But for me, like, and also for me, I have a really bad nihilistic tendency. So I have a really bad way of saying, none of this matters. What’s the point in any of this bullshit? And so when I get into a bad space, I can really go there really quickly. And that’s dangerous because then I’m like, none of this fucking matters.

1:55:38 It’s all bullshit. I’m not going to even bother. So like, that is the worst thing for me. And if I do that, then I probably get self-destructive and I want to just get out and tune out. So like for me, I have to always be on guard of not doing that and so for me I think it’s just to remind myself that there’s people that care and I’m engaging with people that are important and there’s a community and there’s A family but like I still worry about myself from that standpoint Like don’t go nihilist because I can have a real tendency like that’s my that’s that’s my Achilles heel I think just to go into that like who gives a fuck And I can really get my head in there, you know I used to really think that like none of this matters and what’s the point and that’s So how often do you have those days nowadays as opposed to before I don’t have the nihilistic as much I mean there’s so much going on here and like I think just that human interaction like I get great guests and I see people and that really helps bring it up you know really helps in the feedback and the community that helps a lot in the family helps a lot so that’s good I mean we had hard days here sometimes a hard times like I say hard times it’s something I joke about all the time or my white boy problems I say I mean because it’s all relative you know it’s all relative and so you know that’s why I always try to keep it in perspective like what’s a hard time you know are you do I have my

1:56:47 Legs you know is my family safe you know that the those are hard times like so my hard times are all relative so I just try to keep perspective on everything we’re doing here and and I try to believe that we’re doing something important and I think we are so definitely so what’s the most significant question a man should ask himself yes someone asked that right that’s the question yeah and that’s an interesting question I saw that one you know I think ultimately you You have to figure out, it sounds simple, but what is going to make you happy at the end of the day? And what is going to fulfill yourself in your life? And so many people live their whole lives doing things that just don’t make them happy.

1:57:29 And do things that they think are going to make them happy. Like Ido Portal says, you know, you have a dogma. You have a dogma. If I do this, then I’m going to get that. If I do this, I’m going to get that.

1:57:39 And so people are like, okay, if I have the job, then I have the respect of my my peers, if I get the money and then I’m gonna do that, if I become famous, I’m gonna get that. But, you know, rarely do those things kind of intersect and happen. So, I think you have to really figure out what makes you happy in your own self. And like, we’re constantly bombarded subconsciously with language and images and feelings about what we are in the monkey clan. And we all value ourselves against everyone in this clan.

1:58:06 And we all build ourselves up as to someone that will be liked and loved and respected by other people. And I don’t care how much you say, You don’t care what other people think and I’ve been that guy I’ve been saying I don’t care what anyone thinks but you do and you judge yourself on those things and a lot of what you Said in your message, you know Your parents want you to get that law degree and because then you’re gonna be that guy and then they can say you’re that guy And and so I think we’re all chasing sometimes these illusions or what we think we need to be and then when we get there We’re like, I’m not happy with what I’m doing So you really need to I think write down and try to figure out like what is really important to you And are you doing those things that are important and if they’re not then get comfortable with letting them go and get comfortable with with Letting people down, you know what you’d be surprised is most people actually don’t really care what you do And ask you this to anybody who’s come out of the closet Which I’m not gonna do on the show or anything like that Most people don’t give a shit because they’re really worried about what they do So I think constantly people are more concerned that other people think certain things about them But most people are really quite honestly trying to get through the day and take care of their friends and family So I really think you need to go and find out what’s really gonna make you happy and if it doesn’t have all of the

1:59:16 The wonderful perks that you expected it to have and then that’s okay. You could just get to do what you do You know, I love doing this and so that’s good enough You know, I plenty of people and friends that are more successful than me and make more money. I sit next to people every day I’m 44 next year. I haven’t written a book, you know, I haven’t done a new workout routine I don’t speak in front of thousands of people and tell them how to live their life different I just interview them So I’m constantly bombarded with people that are more successful than me that have done You know done tangible things and written books and all that stuff But like I don’t feel intimidated at all I just I love being around those people and I love putting them forward So, you know, you just need to find out what you need to do, you know, yeah That a good answer. That’s a great answer. Okay, so we’re down to the last question The ultimate question, what would Brian Rose tell a 20-year-old Brian Rose?

2:00:13 What advice would he give him? Is that how the question is phrased? Yeah, I think it is, and I specifically didn’t prepare for this, so it’s funny. You actually kind of asked me this question a little bit earlier when you asked, like, when I was at MIT, like, what that guy wanted, you know? And I was 20 years old, I’m a sophomore junior at MIT, studying mechanical engineering, starting to study finance, thinking about Wall Street, in this fraternity, growing up really fast.

2:00:39 What would I tell that 20-year-old boy? I mean, this boy hadn’t had the failures yet. This boy hadn’t stopped breathing one night in New York City and had to be revived by the paramedics. This boy hadn’t fucked his life up. This was all hope at that point.

2:00:52 And I had, in my late 20s and early 20s, I had thrown it all away. I’d fucked up all the, you know, you got the degree, you got the this, you got the this. No, you’re going for stardom, you know? And everyone expects these great things from you. And so, but, you know, at 20, I hadn’t had those failures.

2:01:11 And that’s why I think the hardest time it is for people in their late 20s. Because that’s when, you know, the momentum from the early days starts to peak and you have to start really judging yourself. Am I what I really thought I was going to be? And can you live with that, you know? But the 20 year old self, you know, first of all, my 20 year old self would definitely tell me to fuck off.

2:01:28 Definitely not wanna hear what a 44, 43 year old guy’s saying. Like I don’t even think I respect a 30 year old at that point. I mean, so much of my life, I knew exactly what I was doing. I know what’s going on. I know that, you know, I know what to do.

2:01:43 I know where I’m going, you don’t know where I’m going. If I waste my money on bottles of Cristal at a night in New York, that’s the right thing to do and you’re doing the wrong thing. So like for me, I was always very headstrong. Um, uh, but again, I guess I would, I would say to him, the 20 year old, um, takes my wasca. No, I would just again, maybe, maybe not the 20 year old, cause I don’t know if he would have listened, but the definitely the 27 year old, I would just, you know, sit down and be like, Brian, what, what do you really want in your life?

2:02:14 And is that really going to make you happy? And do you want that because, uh, you know, because you’ve seen it in the movies or Or because in this society of MTV generation and the bling and this is what everyone’s told you is going to make you happy? Or do you want it because there’s really good feelings there? And I would love to talk to that 27, 28 year old dude that was just, had all the best intentions, was trying so hard, trying to get that money and trying to do this and do this, but like really was clearly clueless and was a train wreck in disguise.

2:02:45 And I’d love to just sit him down and just say, okay buddy, you’re okay, why don’t you cut yourself a break, why don’t you love yourself a little bit, why don’t you just get to feel okay with yourself and get to, you know, be one with the community and start doing something that matters, help other people, and let’s get some love out there, and let’s not be maybe so greedy, and like let’s sew everything I get from me, and I think that would be what I would tell him. You know, I don’t know if he would listen. And again, I just want to say I don’t really have any regrets about anything I’ve done. I know I’m not a regret guy, I’m not a guilt guy and never have been I don’t I don’t play the guilt trip game and like so anyone who pulls that with Me I end those relationships very fast and I don’t regret any of this even my best buddy who hired me and sacked me I haven’t talked to in 20 some year or 15 years like I don’t regret any of that and you know He might say Brian you could have had everything you could have been an MD at this management firm You could have IPO you could have been worth 50 million half a billion dollars I’m sure I could have I don’t regret anything man. It was it was the decision I made at the time It was all good. I’m here. So at that point I don’t I don’t have regrets as far as that man I lived it. I know what the decision to make man. I had to do that crazy shit It’s all about the journey like you always say man. It’s all about the journey. It is a bit

2:04:01 It’s hard for me to realize that sometime even though I say that the end of the show But I mean like yeah, it is it is about the journey It’s hard to realize sometimes when you’re in it But you know, it’s like we’re doing all these things and and yeah I mean just just doing cool things and doing those day-to-day interactions and interacting with people and having those projects and and giving is great. You know one thing great about this show is that my first relationship with anyone I meet is I give. It’s like my first interaction with you I’m like solely I want to have you on the show and tell the world how great you are and it’s like so that’s a great way to meet people man I mean you’re meeting people but the first thing you do is you give them something and so like that promotes the most wonderful relationships in the world so like if you can start off that energy with everybody you meet in the world like you get so many great things coming back to you. I couldn’t list the number of great things that have happened to me on this show, I think because of that vibe.

2:04:49 Amazing. Dude, this is like a record show, man. I didn’t even check in the clock, so did we cover everything? I don’t know. Did we cover anything?

2:04:58 Oh, somebody said, what’s the guest I want on some day? It’s the guy I’ve been quoting on the whole show. That’s Mr. Ice T. I’ve been listening to him since I was in Torrey Pines High School, 17 years old blaring colors out of my 1968 Mustang that had primer on it because I was in an auto body class.

2:05:13 So I’m a big fan of Ice-T, I’ve always loved his music, but also I love the guy that he’s become very wise guy and also a guy that was really on the front lines back in the day. When the government was after him, like he says, when the government’s after you. And there’s a great interview with Arsenio Hall that Ice-T did, man, and he’s on that and you can just see, he’s just, I think the cop killer controversy had just come out and you can just see, he’s just, he’s a little bit angry and you can just see all that pressure he had on his shoulder and people forget that.

2:05:43 They see him now with ice and cocoa and he’s like this guy, but man, he was really holding up a lot of stress and powering through some, some hard times back in the day and really, you know, making some, some real headway and a groundbreaking guy at the time. And I like the guy he’s become, he embraces his age and he, and, and he’s a wise dude. So I hope, hope to sit down with him someday. One day, man, I wouldn’t doubt it. I mean, when we have this interview, maybe in five, six years time, where’s, where’s London where we’re going to be then?

2:06:11 What’s supposed to steps? That’s a great question. I’m going to have this discussion with myself again at Christmas, like, what are we going to do? We’re going to do this for another year. I’m probably guessing I will say yes.

2:06:21 There’s a guy that does a podcast called James Altucher and he’s like … James is great. Yeah, James is great. James is amazing. You met him, right?

2:06:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, right. He says he has some basic things that you need to do with your life, like he has love and spirituality and these other things. He’s like, if you have those things working for you, he’s like every six months, he’s like, I get twice as good and twice as much better and twice as much better. So for me, I’m thinking, if I do this for another year, it’s going to be even better, and I’m going to be even better, and this is going to be even better.

2:06:49 So it’s really hard for me to think about not doing this. But like I said, there’s nothing obvious about this show. It’s not really a business to be really objective. So I don’t know what’s going to be happening in five years. I love doing this.

2:07:03 I hope I’m going to keep doing this. But at the same time, if we find other things to do, I’m going to go and do those things. So we did the tech show, we’re still doing it, it’s a lot of fun, maybe we’ll spin something else off. I don’t know, but I don’t wanna get stale and I don’t wanna keep doing the same thing and I always wanna kinda do something new. So stay tuned, man, we’ll see.

2:07:26 We’ll really see, but I don’t know if that matters. The thing is we put out so much great stuff, we had this vibe going on, I’m gonna keep doing what we’re doing, but I already love everything we’ve done and I’m so appreciative of anyone who watches the show I just want to say thanks to everyone who does and I mean there might be an occasional hate comment online But like 100% of the people I meet on the streets and I meet them all the time They’re mostly guys because our fan base is mostly guys, but they stopped me and they are the coolest guys They’re the nicest guys and like I always think like what if I was a movie star or something and they said stop me And like you were great in Superman, but like I don’t know what I would say I’d be like, oh, yeah, the director was Chris Nolan blah blah blah But when these guys stop I say what’s your favorite episode and they’ll be like, oh the DMT or I saw silly breaks So I saw that and we immediately start talking about something cool and they’re always cool guys. They’re always cool people They’re always really thought out and they’re always really introspective and like man. I couldn’t I couldn’t wish for a better Fan base or whatever you call it people that watch the show I don’t consider them fans and I’m really appreciative of like all of them, you know again from ice team I mean like you know, you I think you earn fans the hard way you earn fans the old-fashioned way one at a time

2:08:33 Yeah, I think you know that too and and any kind of quick success might might end in a quick failure So if this takes time, that’s cool. It’s a great community. It’s such a good vibe an amazing community I always say to your audience is amazing. Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah, the level of like interaction and the level of engagement the kind of questions They ask that there’s a there’s a real thinking behind them. You know, I mean, it’s not just nothing wrong with that It’s not just 16 year old girl saying we love you brain, you know I mean, it’s a real genuine authentic audience, you know You can learn more reading the comments sometimes as you can in the interview, you know, yeah Yeah, and I think they feel it like I think if my show was produced by you know BBC or the RT and there was other people involved that might get a different reaction But they kind of know that it’s kind of coming out of me or coming out of my ideas and I’m sitting down with the People and so when I meet people they really want to talk to me and they’re like, okay, what’s up?

2:09:23 And you know, so yeah, they’re an amazing audience. I really engaged audience and open-minded audience I was talking with the culture high guys and they were like maybe people that do this as a show are just more open to listening people because I listen to people every week. So maybe I attract people that want to have a conversation and I don’t want to tell people what to think. They want to have a conversation. So I’m such wonderful people and I’m just always amazed when I meet people and like I said, they’re just the coolest people and I feel very fortunate.

2:09:53 I don’t take any of this for granted by any means and I’m not famous or anything. Not yet. I don’t know what that means. Did we cover everything? I believe we’ve got everything. I think we covered everything. Oh someone asked me like about my nutrition and diet and I’ll just go over it really quickly. You know I do wake up in the morning, I do my meditation, I do have I do have my Bulletproof coffee every morning that is a plug but I actually do. Feed it to me every time I come here. I’m actually addicted. It’s great so you know I like that you know good fats that you get in the morning I love that. I’m still keeping and gluten-free, which I’ve done pretty much since the ayahuasca diet.

2:10:30 The ayahuasca actually taught me a lot about diet as far as stay away from gluten and sugars and all that stuff. I can’t drink Red Bull anymore for some reason, and as you know, in my early days, I used to always drink them. So I’ve been a big fan of staying off gluten. I haven’t gone vegan like my boy, Timothy Sheef. I don’t think I will any time soon, but I do think a good amount of vegetables are important.

2:10:50 The barbecue we had at your house was amazing. Oh yeah, that was good, right? Yeah. Oh yeah, that was… Was that like the shisha and stuff like that?

2:10:55 Yeah, yeah. Bulgarian style. Yeah, my girl is very good at that. Yeah, so I like, you know, good lean proteins and like healthy proteins and yeah, like I said, just the gluten-free and just like kind of smart eating, you know, like Dolce says, eat until you’re satisfied, not until you’re full and just earth-grown ingredients, man, more than anything. I don’t mind some supplements every now and then I think they’re good, but you really shouldn’t be living on that stuff, you know.

2:11:19 So yeah, that’s what I’m doing. You know, psychedelics use them, you know, on occasion and infrequently, I think as Terence McKenna said, use them infrequently and in very high doses. And another quote that McKenna says is that psychedelics are known to cause mass hysteria by those who don’t use them. So yeah, that’s another one. But that’s my routine.

2:11:43 People ask me about jujitsu. I haven’t rolled in like a year. I was training with Peter Irving in Thai boxing at the Urban Kings, but for lately I’m obsessed with the muscle up. So like literally I’ve been working on that for three months. I still don’t have it yet.

2:11:54 I’m working on it. You’re getting that awesome video recently. So frustrating. So I’ve been doing that. I lift about three times a week.

2:11:59 I do hill sprints on the weekends with Gabby, I make her do them. She hates me for it. And so I like to do cardio and just, you know, do some weights. I don’t want to punch things as much as I used to, but I think it’s a great thing to punch things, especially if you’re younger. So I will get back into jujitsu at some point.

2:12:16 It’s a wonderful, beautiful art that’s taught me so much and such great people in jujitsu. I can’t say enough. And it’s how I met so many great people. So yeah, that’s a bit about that. And I think we better wrap this thing up, right?

2:12:28 Is there a sign off? You know, I don’t know. I guess, thanks so much for you for doing this. Thank you for having me. I didn’t know what was going to happen.

2:12:36 I think we covered a lot of stuff. I hope I answered most of your questions. Yeah, definitely. A little cagey maybe on a few. But no, thanks, dude.

2:12:44 I would appreciate it. I don’t think I could have had this conversation. Thank you for having me. And I appreciate your audience for hopefully listening, you know what I mean? This is my first time doing this kind of stuff, So I apologize for being shaky at any times, but hopefully I was able to give them what you wanted to say to them.

2:12:59 You’re good, man. You really directed the conversation. You stopped me a few times, which is good. I don’t know, man. You wanna guest host sometimes?

2:13:05 Never know, man. You never know. It depends. I’m gonna take a few weeks off. When you get iced tea, you know, when you get iced tea, I might come down.

2:13:10 Right, come back. That’s why I love that man. Maybe you should take the mic on time and interview someone. Maybe, you know. Think about it.

2:13:16 You know, it’s a different skill set to acquire, so it’s one that I think you would love, you know? It is a very different skill set, isn’t it? It is, it’s really, really different having to be on this side, and like you said, by the end of the day, we just had a conversation. It’s not that much different from what we’re saying. Except for I got to ask you more things that I wanted to ask you.

2:13:35 Yeah, I just learned how intimate it really is when I’m talking to people. I mean, it really is like quiet in here. You get lost in the world, yeah. Yeah, you do get lost, so. And then the last bit, dude, I’m just really excited about your future endeavors and your future creativity, and I can’t wait to see everything you’re gonna bring to the world, and all of the wonderful things you’re gonna do.

2:13:53 And yeah, I’m a big fan of everything you’re doing and hopefully we can help out in any way. Not that you need our help. So very excited about your stuff coming, so. Thanks, man. All right, so we’ll sign this off.

2:14:04 Sign it off. You want me to sign it off? You sign off because it’s all you need. So as we say on London Real, it’s about the journey. Thank you for having me today.