Boki Nachbar - A Journey from NBA Basketball Courts to Sports Leadership And Beyond

Full transcript: Boki Nachbar on London Real

9:57 To, uh, Dave Asprey and those guys out there. Uh, on to the show. My guest is Mr. Boki Nachbar, who is a professional basketball player from Slovenia who is currently number 34 for FC Barcelona in the Spanish league. Uh, you’ve been playing pro basketball since 1997 for teams like the Houston Rockets, uh, New Orleans Hornets, uh, New Jersey Nets. In, uh, 2008 you came back to Europe and signed a big three-year, 10 million euro contract with the Russian club Dynamo Moscow.

10:25 Um, you’re uh, heavily involved in charity work. I know you just came back from, uh, the African country of Chad. I want to talk about that later. Uh, you’re a big fan of the Joe Rogan Experience. Uh, Daniel Boli, uh, you and I have been talking for like two years.

10:37 Finally got you on the show. Uh, Boki, welcome to London Real. Thank you. It’s great to be here, dude. It’s nice to finally have you.

10:42 Um, it’s crazy. I think you reached out to us. Um, was it after we were on Joe Rogan, or before, or I’m not quite sure, but it was a while back. Yeah, it’s been, it’s been a while, but you know, I’m glad I did, and I’m glad we got in contact. I mean, this is, uh, it’s finally, you know, it’s happening.

10:57 I’m here. It’s nice to know that we have, we have people listening to us in Slovenia, you know. Uh, you, you’d be surprised there’s people, people there listening, you know. It’s probably the last thing you think about, but yeah, I mean, your, your podcast has grown into a, a podcast that is listened to worldwide for sure. That’s always good to hear, man.

11:12 It’s, I, you, you never think about it when you’re here doing it, and you know that, ’cause you have your own podcast, and we’ll get to that. But you know, I want to talk a little bit about, uh, basketball. We’ve never had a professional basketball player on here. Um, you’re a lot taller than I am. Um, and, uh, I just remember my first time when I realized, uh, what a big deal professional basketball was.

11:31 Is I went to New York City in 1993 when I graduated from college, and I worked on Wall Street. And so the, uh, the Wall Street brokers would take us out and try to spend money on us to get us to spend money with them. And, uh, what they would do is they would take us on the floor at the New York Knicks games. So they’d sit us down next to, like, Madonna. And I remember the first time seeing real basketball players, professional guys, like, playing, and I just didn’t realize, you know, from the television you can’t tell how physical it is, how big you guys are, like what a serious cardio game it is.

12:03 And then, like, the serious physical contact going on. And I was just blown away by the sport of it. And then later I was lucky enough to go to Chicago for banking, and I was on the, I was in the Chicago Bulls arena when Jordan came back from playing baseball, and, like, the place went crazy, and you know, Chicago used to go crazy anyways, and I remember seeing him play, and it’s just, like, very impressive stuff. So I was wondering if you could tell me, how does a kid from Slovenia end up being a professional basketball player?

12:30 And, um, and what’s it really like being, being a pro ball player? Well, you know, I, I had to tell this story to many people, um, obviously, you know, uh, before, but, you know, maybe not to your audience. You know, how I came to be in the NBA. You know, I come from a small town in Slovenia called Dravograd, which is 4,000 people and doesn’t even have a basketball club. There you go.

12:49 Where is Slovenia for people that don’t know? Slovenia is, uh, is a, is, you know, north of the, north coast of the, of the north coast of the Adriatic Sea. It’s by Italy, Austria, Croatia, that region. It’s a beautiful small country, uh, 2 million people. So it’s a small place, right?

13:05 And it’s like you said, just kind of north, uh, east, northeast of Italy. Yeah. Yeah, Venice, Italy, right there. The border is right there. Um, well, we don’t even have borders anymore.

13:13 Now we can just drive, ’cause the European Union and all that. So, uh, but yeah, that’s that’s where I’m from. Yeah. And, um, like I said, growing up in a small town, and, um, uh, always having the dream to play in the NBA, you know, it’s, it’s, it sounded funny when I was a kid. Um, nobody thought I was going to, I was going to get there.

13:30 Uh, it was, it, it really was one of those situations when a little kid is dreaming big, and, uh, and, uh, I remember being in class in elementary school, and instead of listening to teachers, is drawing up the logos of NBA teams, really, in my notebook. And, uh, even though I was a good student, I had time for that, and I always focused basketball. Um, but yeah, the road to get there obviously was hard. Um, I had to go through a lot of obstacles, and, um, I fight for my spots and teams, and all that, but, uh, luckily I had enough talent.

13:58 I had the physical ability to do it. Um, I was at the right place at the right time, that all that takes to, to make it. Um, and, um, once I got to the NBA, um, you know, 10, 15 years later, and I was the happiest man in the world, I bet. Now, now basketball is big in Europe. I mean, people don’t know that.

14:15 I mean, in London, as we were talking about earlier, it hasn’t really peaked where it probably is going to get someday, especially with all the Europeans moving to London. But it’s a big sport on, on the continent, right? It’s huge. I mean, obviously soccer is number one, but as a team, as far as team sports go, basketball is second, and it’s played in all the countries, um, you know, at the highest level. Uh, I play in Barcelona now.

14:36 We play in the Spanish league and in the Euro League. Euro League is equivalent to NBA in the States, you know. The best teams, um, you know, the best players, you know, the best competition, um, so yeah, it’s, it’s, basketball has been over years, it’s been getting better and better and better here in Europe. It’s, I’m not going to say that it’s going to catch up with the NBA, because NBA still takes a lot of European, best European players over there, and it has the best league, um, you know, best players, best teams, and so on and so on.

15:03 But basketball in Europe is definitely getting really, really good, with a lot of good teams, you know, spending money to get players, involving, you know, getting in, uh, you know, really trying to win the competition, because of how big basketball is, especially in some of the cities, like you know, Barcelona, Madrid, Moscow, Istanbul, you know. In Italy you have Milan, you know, um, all those major cities all over Europe, except London, you know, hoping one day London’s going to have a team too, because it’s a beautiful, beautiful city, right? Your first time here, and you’re loving it, right?

15:32 Yeah. So, and is it typically like the non-NBA fans that come and watch basketball? I mean, do they, are they separate, or do they, is there a crossover? Um, I would think majority is separate. I would think so.

15:43 Even though, for example, the team that I play for now, Barcelona, we’re called FC Barcelona. We’re basically, we’re basically under the same roof as the soccer team, the football team, just that we’re a basketball section. Okay. So it’s the same club, you know? Yeah, and, and Real Madrid has the same, and a lot of some Europeans, European teams have the same way of doing it.

16:05 Um, so imagine you have Los Angeles Lakers being, having a basketball team, but then also a soccer team called, you know, Los Angeles Lakers. That’s how they do it in Europe. Um, so yeah, there’s, I think still majority of the fans are either basketball or football fans, or soccer, as we call here. Um, but there’s some people who, who like both, especially the people who support the club. So let’s say when it comes to Barcelona fans, you know, they support football, but when we play against Madrid, Real Madrid, which is a big rivalry, they still go to basketball game just because they support the club so much, you know?

16:35 Right. It seems to me like it couldn’t be almost two different games. I mean, you got football, where the score is 1-nil, and you got basketball, where the basketball is such, in my opinion, an American sport, because you know, Americans like the score to change. They like action all the time, and, you know, it seems like it’s a sport that people want. Right?

16:54 Right. I mean, people want that kind of fast, active. It’s, it’s definitely a lot different than, than soccer, right? You know, in soccer you sit, or you know, a lot of some other sports, but yeah, you, in soccer, you sit down and you watch, and if there’s one goal, it’s great. If it’s two, it’s, it’s a wow.

17:09 You know, in basketball it’s such a fast-paced game, and score changes a lot, and a lot of little things happen inside the game. Um, plus I think, you know, it helps because fans sit closer to the, to the, to the floor. You know, you can, like you said, I mean, different energy is different. And a lot of people tell me, like you said before, a lot of people say when they come see a basketball game and they sit front court, I mean, you know, and they see it live, they say, they say, “I have no idea how fast this game is.

17:34 How, how physical it is.” That’s something that people are surprised about when they see it live up close, you know. Why is that? Why can’t we tell from television? Cuz there’s huge guys, I mean, like they’re dominating each other and hitting each other.

17:44 But you, you have a lot of huge guys, and you have, you know, even the guards, who are supposed to be short on the court, they’re still tall guys. I mean, those, those guys are like 185,190, 195 in centimeters, which is, I don’t know, you know, 6’3, 6’4, 6’5. Um, if those guys walked around the street, you’ll say, oh, it’s a tall dude, but on the court they don’t look tall, because you have guys that are even, even, even taller, 6’7, 6’9. You know, I’m 6’9.

18:07 Then you have 7’1, 7’3. I mean, I play with guys that been 7’5, 7’6. So, you know, I fell short. So, um, yeah, I mean, especially to people here, uh, who listen to this and are here in London, I would suggest, or in England, I would suggest they go see a basketball game. I’m sure they would love it.

18:24 Right. And sit up close. Yeah. If possible. Right.

18:26 Okay. Now talk about the States. What was it like, you know, playing when you finally got to the NBA? And I know you played there for a bunch of different teams. You know, was the vibe completely different being in the States?

18:35 Uh, what was it like, even being in America for the first time? For me it was a culture shock at first. You know, I moved from Italy, where I played my first two uh, years outside Slovenia as a professional. I was a 21-year-old kid. Um, and I moved to Houston, Texas.

18:49 And it was such a specific Texan city, you know, it’s uh, and, um, yeah, it was a, it was a culture shock. I liked it, you know. People were very nice, and and they support the Rockets, the team in Houston, and, and, and the, the support I received was unbelievable. But still, to get used to the, the, the, the city, the not as much language, but the culture, the food over there, um, and all that stuff. It took me a while to get used to it, right?

19:15 And it’s hot down there. It’s a spread-out city. I’ve actually never been to Houston, but, you know, in Texas, you might as well be in completely different countries when you, and that’s very true. I, I didn’t know what they were talking about at first when they told me, “Oh, you know, everything’s big in Texas, and we’re, you know, we’re our own country inside the USA.” But once I lived there for a while, and I visit other cities, I could see the difference, you know, but like I said, real nice people, open people, and, uh, and kind, and, uh, I have nice memories.

19:40 Was the style of basketball different? Was it more in your face? Was it more aggressive, or was it just, did it feel different when you got there? Well, yeah. For me, especially, for me it was because I was always a very skinny, right, as a player and especially as a kid.

19:52 Um, and to get there and all the, the physical game that was there, the fast pace, um, I needed, uh, quite some time to, uh, to get used to, and to, to, you know, to get my strength where it needed to be. Um, yeah, the game is faster, the game is, is, is quicker. It’s, uh, you know, more talented players, and, uh, uh, it’s, it’s definitely called the best, I mean, for a reason. It’s called the best league in the world, right? How long were you there for, in years?

20:15 Six years, and you went to the Nets, you went down to New Orleans as well? Um, any, uh, any favorite memories? Uh, do you miss it at all, or was that kind of a part of your career, and then it was? Well, I mean, every year was, was different. I had, I had a chance to play with some, some great players, and I’m not going to name all of them, but, you know, to play last couple years when I played with New Jersey Nets.

20:34 We played well also in the playoffs, and played with Vince Carter and, and Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson, and those were the guys that were, you know, all-stars at the time, or um, you know, it was, uh, it was, it was definitely nice to be there and be playing a big role for the team. Um, and also living close to New York, and all that, you know, was it has its charm, and, uh, yeah, I have nice memories. Spent six years there, and, uh, uh, definitely will, will never regret moving there, playing there, and, and, you know, basically, um, you know, I live my dream.

21:01 What’s the biggest misconception about professional basketball that, like, people wouldn’t even know by looking at the NBA? Wow, that’s a, that’s a tough question. The biggest misconception, I don’t know. I mean, um, I, I think, for, for majority of people that I met, the players that I met, um, I always thought that they were untouchable, and they were really like superstars, that you see them as they are. Most of those guys are really nice guys and open guys.

21:25 It’s just that, you know, obviously, NBA is keeping a barrier between the players and, and, and fans, for a reason. You know, you want to look up to those guys. If there would be, you would be able to reach them and be available in every step, it wouldn’t have that appeal of a superstar. But once you meet those guys and uh, you see that they’re all are really cool guys. That’s, that’s one thing that I noticed, you know, a story when I first came to the NBA, and Grant Hill, a player that played for Orlando Magic at the time, was one of my idols, you know, and, uh, I first meet, and I got on court.

21:52 It was against that team, and, uh, and he walked up to me and he said, uh, “Welcome up to the league, rookie.” And I was like, I can’t believe this dude just said this to me. I thought it was the nicest thing ever, you know. So things like that, you know, yeah, things like that definitely, um, they change you. And that’s something that I haven’t thought about before I got there.

22:07 Does the NBA keep a kind of a distance from the players in the media? Do you think they, they do? Because I, we talk about, like, MMA, which is like the opposite, because you get inside all these guys’ heads, and the media access is sick. Even Dana White has media access, but does the NBA kind of have that distance to protect them? It’s very structured, you know.

22:23 It’s very structured. So let’s say per game, I mean, in the locker room, media has access to the players. They’re allowed to enter the, the, the locker room and talk, and after the game is the same. It’s, it’s short. It’s maybe 15, 20 minutes.

22:36 Um, and I think every practice there’s a media availability, availability, either before or after practice, but it’s very, it’s usually short, it’s structured, it’s, you know, you always have a PR guy somewhere in the corner, you know, saying, “Okay, two more minutes, you know, like this.” Uh, it’s getting similar in Europe from, from my experience. Um, but it’s done like this for a reason, because in MMA, for example, the fighter has a fight. So when he’s in town for those four or five days, or a week, you know, media is there, and they have a chance to see him and talk to him and, and, and get all the info they have.

23:06 After the fight, he’s gone for the next five, six months. Uh, in, in the NBA, or in Europe, you have game, you have two, three games a week, so you’re always available. So they keep it short. Um, if they can’t reach you today, you know, you’ll be back in practice tomorrow, or three days from now, and they can talk to you then, right? I can’t think of the last time I heard a compelling NFL or NBA interview.

23:27 You know, I don’t know. Am I just, am I, am I just, like, maybe I’m spoiled with MMA, or maybe also because it’s a team sport, and, you know, there’s less specifics to talk about. I don’t know. Yeah. Well, I definitely find MMA guys more interesting as far as, uh, what they have to say in their preparation for the fights and after the fights, and all that.

23:44 Um, but maybe it’s just because I live basketball every day and I’m looking for something different. Um, but yeah, you know, basketball games and practices, it’s also a routine. I mean, you’ve done it day in, day out, and, um, a lot of times there’s not just that much interesting to say, at least not from our standpoint. I’m sure media and fans want to hear something new, something different, but from our standpoint is, you know, it was a, we had a practice, we had games, we lost, we won.

24:05 It’s simple, right? Um, and I think a lot of guys also um, they, they don’t, they don’t like the media tension, and they don’t like all that. It happens. I mean, I never had problem with it. You know, I, I always say that, um, I, we play for, for the fans.

24:19 I always played for the fans, so the fans, the fans have the right to to know what I’m thinking, what I’m feeling, before the game, after the game. So I’m available. But, um, you know, a lot of players don’t think that. They think that they deserve their own, um, you know, peace, their own quiet time, and and they don’t like media, but, uh, it’s up to every individual how they want to approach it, right? How many games do you play, uh, a week?

24:39 How many practices do you do a week when the season is on? Just, I just want to get an idea of the physicality, or how much you’re playing. Oh, well, you know, NBA and Europe are a little bit different. In NBA, there is usually, in regular season, there’s 82 games plus the playoffs, so it comes up to like a 100, maybe. Um, yeah, it’s a lot of games, and that’s only like a six, six and a half month period.

24:56 So it’s a lot of games. So three to four times a week, you know, it’s a lot, and that’s 40 minutes. Oh, you could, 48 in the NBA. Um, in Europe, it’s, the game is long, 40 minutes. Uh, and usually it’s about, I would say, about 70, 80 games, 70, 75 games.

25:11 Um, because in Europe it’s a little bit different. In NBA you only play the NBA. So they only, you play one league. In Europe you play your local league, where you’re from. So for example, I’m playing for Barcelona, so we play Spanish league, plus we play Euro League.

25:24 So we’ll play one game a week is going to be Spanish league, and one, one game a week is going to be Euro League. Just like the soccer teams, or the football teams, you know, they have the England, English Premier League, and then they play the Champions League, for example. So it’s the same thing. And then practices on top of that. Yeah, yeah.

25:37 Once, once, twice a day. Um, you know, I would say, you know, four or five times a week, depends, you know. So, so it’s pretty physically demanding. Yeah, it is. I hear naps are big in the NBA.

25:47 Is that something that you do a lot of, naps? And I heard these guys, you know, when they’re traveling all the time, it’s like standard. These guys are napping during the day. I used to do that a lot more. Yeah.

25:55 Not as much, not as much last couple of years. Um, but yeah, I was big on that. If I didn’t have a nap in the afternoon, I wasn’t able to function in the evening. It came to that point, I needed my hour and a half, two hours sleep in the afternoon. So, uh, my day used to be, you know, wake up in the morning, eat breakfast, go to, go to, go to practice, lunch, nap, wake up again, practice, and eat and sleep.

26:14 So it was basically just like this, like very structured. And, um, uh, it was, it was okay for me because it was my routine, and what I’ve done, but for people around me, for family, it was tough, because basically I was, I was busy from the morning till the evening. Um, but the last couple years, um, I’m not napping as much anymore. I have more energy, I think, and, uh, uh, we can talk about it later, why. And, uh, but also have two daughters, so I need to spend time with them.

26:36 I mean, it’s something I want to do. Um, and so instead of resting more, I dedicate my time to them. And what about offseason? Do you train on the offseason? How long you off for, and what are you doing normally?

26:46 Usually I take a couple weeks off after I’m, I’m done. Um, two, three weeks off. Uh, a lot of times it’s still, yeah, it’s still active, you know. I mean, um, you know, I’ll either play some, some football with friends, or I’ll go jogging, or I’ll do a little bit of CrossFit. Um, you know, I did bicycle rides a day for a couple hours in the morning around London.

27:03 So I’ll stay active. I never want to be completely out of shape. I think the older you get, the harder it is to get back in shape, right? Um, do you have to worry about, like, injuries or things like that? If you go running, do you have to worry about your knees?

27:14 Or, you know, if you, if you, you know, train some jiu-jitsu, do you have to worry about this? I’m constantly thinking about it. You are? Yeah. Constantly.

27:20 I think I think I do it too much. It’s my life. But I think I think I come to a point where, uh, you know, friends or my, my family, or somebody says, “Oh, let’s do, let’s do this. Let’s do, you know, let’s play, let’s play football.” I’m like, I don’t know if I should do that.

27:32 I mean, I get dragged into it somehow. And I, I, I stay back. I play very safe, but still, with everything I do, I have this in mind. I, I’m like, I got to stay healthy. I got to, you know, I can’t, can’t get injured, especially not away from basketball.

27:45 Um, because I think in basketball, when I’m in practice or in game, I obviously don’t think about it. And I’m, I know I’m 100% focused around what I’m doing, right? Um, so I, I think that’s, that’s, that’s what I need. If I’m focused, I’m good, you know. I mean, injuries can always happen, but I’m focused in, so I don’t worry about it.

28:01 But when I do other, other things outside basketball, that’s when I worry about it, because it’s not my daily routine. It’s not my body, what my body’s used to. So I’m worried about making a wrong step and getting injured. So it’s constantly on my mind. You hear about those stupid-ass interviews, sorry, injuries, where someone plays, like, beach volleyball and they blow their knee out, and you’re like, “What?”

28:17 You know? Yeah. Exactly. Because they weren’t thinking about it. Or, you know, even stuff like riding a bicycle or being on a motorcycle, or you know, going skiing, or, or, you know, stupid things, they happen, and um, you know, it’s just something that I, that I have always avoided as a, as a professional athlete.

28:32 You know? And have you ever had downtime or injury time as an athlete? I had, I did, I had, I had a couple of injuries. Um, last was a couple years ago. I really badly injured my ankle.

28:41 Okay. Um, tore a lot of ligaments, and and even a part of my cartilage was, was separated. So I needed surgery, and it took me about 6 months to get back. So that was not fun. That was horrible, cuz your, your work is gone.

28:53 You probably climbing the walls? Yeah. It’s tough. Worrying about your future. It’s tough.

28:57 It’s tough. And I was, you know, I just finished my contract. So I was a free agent. I just got injured at the end of the season. My contract was up.

29:03 Yeah. In the practice, practice. Um, so, uh, it was, it wasn’t fun, and I needed surgery in the offseason, you know, in the summertime, when I had no contract, and, you know, no guaranteed future, where I’m going to continue, and how, and, you know, I was 30 or 31 years old, so you’re not the youngest anymore. And those, those moments are tough, because you still want to play, you know, you have still a lot to give, and um, uh, moments like this, they definitely teach you a lot about respecting what you have, you know, uh, when you, when you have to step back for, for a month or two or whatever.

29:35 And in my case, I did that. I reflected. I, um, I, I worked really hard to get back, and I did, you know. I came back, played well, couple of seasons, uh, you know, climbed the ladder again, and ended up playing for FC Barcelona, which is considered one of the top teams in Europe. So, uh, it was just another one of those moments where I had to grind and grind and grind, and I did it.

29:53 So it’s definitely something I can be proud about. Right? So you’re 34 now. What? What is this?

29:57 You have another four years? 5 years? I don’t know. I mean, as long as I can play at the highest level, which, which I consider the Spanish League, the Euro League, you know, when I can play, when I can play at this level, uh, I want to play. If it’s going to be four years, great, you know.

30:10 Um, but in, on my mind, I think two to three years is realistic. Okay. Um, I don’t want to be playing with, with injuries or with pain. I don’t want to be one of those guys who plays until they can walk, and then after they’re done playing, which, which happens in basketball a lot, you know, the tall guys. You see them walking around with, with, you know, knee injuries or, you know, knee replacements, or, you know, having back problems.

30:32 And I don’t want to be one of those, those guys when I’m done playing basketball. I want to be healthy enough and have enough energy to do something else, you know, not getting paid for it, but still enjoy it a lot, be able to move. So when I was in, in Chicago and I used to watch the Bulls, Dennis Rodman had just come in. So it must have been, like, 95. And man, he was at the end of his career, right?

30:49 But he would always have two big-ass bags of ice on his knees, like, during the game, before the game, after the game. And you could just tell he was on his last couple years. And, like, I don’t know if he has problems now, but you could tell he’s, yeah. Um, going to have. Ice is important.

31:03 You know, I, I like to ice down, okay, after practices, after games. Um, how’s the new breed of athlete coming up? How’s the, the 24-year-old that you see, you know, in Barcelona’s, other places? Are, are they a different level? Are they taking care of their bodies in a different way?

31:16 Do they look different than you did, say, 10 years ago? I, I think, I think basketball in general is getting more and more physical. So if you look at basketball 10 years ago, or if you go 20 years ago, if you watch a tape, it’ll be so different, because skinny-ass Larry Bird and all those guys, right? It’s more physical. It’s faster.

31:31 He’s quicker. He’s stronger. Is LeBron, is the LeBron. He’s a new he’s a new, new type of player that you see now. He’s a hybrid.

31:37 He’s a guy that can play multiple positions. He’s strong enough. He’s, you know, athletic enough. And I see you, I think you’re going to see more and more guys like him. Yeah.

31:45 Okay, okay. And that’s going one way. It’s not going, I think it is. I think it’s going that way, because just the way the basketball is, and the way the rules are. You have to be physical.

31:52 You have to be strong, fast, to be able to compete at the highest level. So all the young players want to follow that trend. Um, uh, yeah, I see it in young players. It’s, it’s going that way. You know, even when I was younger, if I compare myself, you know, when I was 15, 17, we didn’t play as physical as those young guys play now.

32:06 For sure. So they’re all lifting weights now. They’re all kind of bigger, doing more, what, more sprinting, cardio, more. I think I spent too much when I was 17, 18, 20, you know. I spent so much time in fitness for really.

32:20 Yeah. Just had no idea what’s the, what’s the right thing to do, and a lot of coaches didn’t at that time, because the basketball was still in a way that it was evolving, especially the, the conditioning and the strength, strength and conditioning part of it. Um, so we did, like, um, just, you know, leg curls and, and biceps curls and all that that I think is, for most of it, is completely unnecessary. What I think is good for basketball is, is basketball, is basketball-controlled or basketball-converted CrossFit.

32:42 Okay. For example, for example, what, um, for example, um, you know, box jumps, short sprints, medicine ball work, things, you know, that you can do, um, you know, um, a lot of those things that that you, um, copy basketball moves. Okay. You know, I think that’s the best way. If I was a young player, that’s what I would want to do, because I think it has the best results.

33:03 Um, obviously you have to gain weight, you have to gain muscle. There’s ways to do that. Um, but, um, that will be the practice that I would want to do, because I think, you know, in the long run it would help me be healthier, more agile, faster, all that, you know, and that’s important. And do the clubs embrace that, whether in Europe or in the states? I mean, do they have really smart cross trainers that really train the guys, or is everyone kind of?

33:24 No, more and more, you know, it’s more and more going that direction. I think all the top teams do that. Um, when I was in New Jersey, I was surprised because a big part of our practice was Pilates. Okay. Okay.

33:33 And the first time, first time I got there, I was like, “Why are we doing Pilates?” Like, you know, you think it was silly. I mean, and I, but once I started doing it and I saw the results on the court, I was like, “This is the way to go.” ‘Cause you were stretching out. Yeah.

33:43 Stretching out, and gain, and getting more flexible, and and getting stronger at the same time. And especially during the season, when you play a lot of games and it’s tough and you’re tired, you know? Pilates is a great way to relax your muscles, relax your body, but at the same time get stronger and more flexible. So that was one of the things that I, I did a lot when I was when I was in with the New Jersey Nets. Okay.

34:02 Uh, LeBron James, what’s your read on him? The recent move, the whole phenomenon, I’m not a big basketball fan, so I want to know what you think. Uh, well, he’s, he’s definitely, you know, one of the best, if not the best, player on the planet right now. Um, that’s, that’s, I didn’t say nothing new, but that’s a fact. I like that he’s going back to Cleveland.

34:19 He’s from there. Um, he’s, uh, uh, he’s, uh, he’s going to want to, he’s going to try to win the, the championship there. I think if he does, it’s going to be great for his career and for his legacy. So I think it’s a good move. You know, he went to Miami, won a championship or a couple of championships.

34:32 Now it’s time to do it his own way, without help, or with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh and so on and so on. So, uh, you know, I, I was never a huge fan of LeBron James. I mean, I, I played against him. You know, it’s hard to be a fan of somebody to play against. What was he like to play against?

34:45 Uh, he’s just really, really, really physical. I remember him, really physical. He wasn’t a good shooter back then. He got better as a shooter from three-point range and all that. Um, but, uh, right now, when he moved back to Cleveland, I’m really pulling up for him to, to win there.

34:57 I think it’s a great move for him. Okay. Yeah. And I mean, the NBA is such a huge phenomenon, right? I mean, basketball, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s such a huge money-making global sport, right?

35:07 I mean, in America, is it right up there with NFL? I mean, it’s, it’s, these franchises are worth lots of money, as we’ve seen recently from, from the sale. Is that just going to get bigger, in your opinion? Yeah, basketball is getting more and more global. I think they’ve done that jump from being just a USA sport to being a global sport.

35:24 I think they’ve done it already. They’re just trying to get, solidify their moves, you know. They’re big, game big, in Asia. Um, they’re, they’re big in Europe already, even though Euro League is trying to, I have a feeling they’re trying to move them to the side a little bit and get their own space. So I think it’s a little bit of a battle between Euro League and NBA.

35:40 Who gets to Asia first? Who gets, well, no. Who, who’s, who gets to Europe? Who is the major, major league in Europe? Because a lot, a lot of fans love NBA, and they watch NBA instead of Euro League, right?

35:49 Um, I think Asia is, is obviously all NBA. It’s covered. Um, you know, the fans, it’s a huge fan base over there. Um, Latin America, um, you know, South America, um, is, is big on NBA. So yeah, they’re global sport for sure.

36:02 Um, more than, I would say, more than NFL or baseball or any other American sport. We were talking about MMA earlier, and you were talking about the athletes in MMA, and you know, you said that you think that they are a super high-level athlete, but you know, it, it’s, it’s natural to marginalize what you do, you know, and I’m sure if I went through one of your practices, I’d be like, Jesus Christ, this is crazy what you guys do, or even the mental aspect of playing an NBA game or a league game. But what, what do you think when you see MMA athletes?

36:28 What do you see that’s different than, say, you or a footballer? I would say their physical preparation, the physical, the ability to be at 100 percent, period, you know, like I think it also makes a huge difference, because MMA fighter has two, three fights a year, so they structure everything for that one event. I think if you did that in basketball, you would also see that, you know, but we play 70, 80, 90, 90 games a year. So it’s a little bit different, but still, I think MMA fighter dedicates more into his health and more to his preparation than a basketball player does.

37:02 No question. Okay. I guess it’s an individual sport too, which makes it different. Like you said, they’re peaking. I, I heard recently that, was it Luke Rockhold of AKA was saying that in order to train for a five-round fight, he’s like, it’s, it’s like double the camp of a three-round fight.

37:16 Like little things that I didn’t even know. And I’ve been a fan for 10 years, but I didn’t realize you really have to train so much more. Yeah, I mean, I, I admire, I mean, MMA guys, I mean, because I know how much they put into it, and most of them don’t get even paid a lot of money for what they do. It’s purely out of, out of love, and, uh, of, of knowing who they are and what they can do, and if they can, you know, win inside the cage, I’m sure that has its own thrill, and it’s something that we can’t even imagine.

37:42 Um, but yeah, I mean, I always say that, uh, you know, basketball players, football players, we’re we’re, we’re athletes. I think those guys, the MMA guys, are warriors. I think that’s the difference. Yeah, it’s, ’cause like, also there’s the weight issue now, which means you, you have to be cutting weight, you know, to fight at the top of your game. So not only are you doing all these other physical aspects, you now need to shave 10 pounds off your body.

38:05 You know, I can’t, I can’t imagine that. I, I can’t imagine. I mean, I have 104,105 kilos, and if I had to be under 100 to play a game, and that would be three weeks from now, or, I can’t imagine stepping on the court being not my natural weight. You, I mean, know, they gain weight in the day that they have but still, um, you know, the day that they have between the weighs and the fight, but still it’s something that is would be just too much, you know, especially, I think, for basketball players who are used to running up and down, and some of them are tall, really tall, and I think losing weight would be, uh, would be a disaster, right?

38:35 Not what they want to do. Um, I had Mike Dolce in here, and he was, uh, one of his fighters, Nick Lentz, uh, was a guy he works with, and you know, he’ll talk to a fighter, and then he’ll usually say, okay, uh, you should be fighting 10 lbs lighter, you know, and like when he trained BJ, DJ, you know, and so, like, you know, Dolce is basically saying, “You’re not what you think you are. You should be fighting 10 pounds below.” And it’s just like, Jesus, you know?

38:56 Yeah. I mean, look, this is not something I’ll do ever, but, but I do, I do, uh, I do like Mike Dolce, you know. I follow him, and I, uh, I, I’m following to what he’s trying to do and suggest, and, uh, when it comes to food, I follow some of his, uh, his tips. Um, so I definitely respect, respect him as a, as a nutritionist and as a coach. Um, but yeah, I mean, basketball definitely needs more of that for sure.

39:19 Yeah. Talk to me about your diet. You said you changed things up in the last few years. I mean, how’s the typical, uh, NBA diet, which probably means NFL and, you know, whatever? How is your typical diet?

39:28 Because these, these athletes are making millions of dollars a year, you know, it’s, in, in their best interest to spend money for all this stuff. What’s it typically like? Well, I, I can’t talk for every NBA player. Um, I can talk for myself. I didn’t eat well when I was in the NBA.

39:44 Like, what were you eating? H, you know, I mean, I, I did try. I did try to sell it, and, and a steak that would be lean, you know, lean meat, like you know, good stuff, but, um, too many burgers, too many French, too much French fries, you know, all the sweets, you know, uh, French toast soaked in oil. I mean, Texas barbecue, all that stuff, all that stuff, and I didn’t take care, care of my body as much as I used to, and I’m sure, I mean, I know, I’ve seen it um, many NBA players, I mean, make the same mistake.

40:09 They don’t, they don’t, they don’t do that. I think the whole um, taking care of your body aspect is still not as evolved as you see it in the NB, MMA. Yeah, NBA or professional basketball in general is just, it’s just not there yet. Interesting. And what are you doing different?

40:25 Like you said, you’re taking care of your body. Is it like a specific thing you’re not eating, or are you trying to sleep more? What are you doing different? Um, well, I have a bad sleeping habit. I go to sleep really late.

40:33 So let’s take that out of the, out of the equation. Usually 1:00 in the morning, you know, 2 at night, and I’ll sleep. I’m not going. I’m not one of those early birds who go to sleep at 10:00. Okay.

40:42 And you’re not napping these days. So that’s, I’m not, usually I’m not, I’m not. Um, so I, but I still try to sleep. I would say 8 hours. That’s good.

40:49 8 hours. Say 7 hours, 8 hours is what I try to sleep. That’s always my focus. So if I got to get up at 9:00, I, I make sure I’m, I’m in bed at 1, 1:30. Um, so you’re really going to bed at 3 is what you, a lot of times?

41:01 Okay. A lot of times. Um, but yeah, as far as food goes, um, I eat a lot, a lot more vegetables, a lot more fruits. Um, you know, I, I’ll mix it up in the morning. You know, uh, my wife is really, uh, strict on that, because she, she’s the one that started changing her diet, and she’s a vegetarian, which I’m not, but I follow a lot of her tips when it comes to eating fresh, eating straight from the garden, eating straight from the local market, and so on and so on.

41:25 So everywhere we live, we try to do that. Um, there’s a line from Pulp Fiction where, um, it’s not, not Marsellus Wallace, but it’s, and what it was, Samuel Jackson’s character, and he says, “My girlfriend’s a vegetarian,” which basically means I’m a vegetarian. Exactly. So yeah, a lot of, a lot of, lot of dishes, a lot of, you know, whether it’s lunch, dinner, or whatever, I’ll eat vegetarian, you know, and, uh, uh, I don’t necessarily agree with all the vegetarian um, things.

41:50 I think meat is still important to eat, but, but not every meat. I’m really selective with the kind of meat I eat. Mostly will be, uh, just, you know, chicken breast, that’ll make it real simple. I’m not going to add sauces. I’m not going to, uh, make it.

42:04 I’m not going to fry it, you know, and so on and so on. And, um, since I’ve been doing that, uh, I feel, I feel much better. I feel much better. So, uh, my day is simply not going to start without me blending a big shake of, uh, you know, fruit. Also, I’ve tried that, you know, but mostly, you know, different vegetables, different fruit, whatever I have at home, you know, fresh.

42:23 I’ll put that together, and that’s how I’ll start. I’ll start my day. Gluten, you playing with gluten, or, um, I try to avoid it as much as I can, even though I haven’t, um, put it out of my diet completely, simply because I don’t pay enough attention to it. I should, uh, it’s, I read about it. I’m, I’m sure it would be, it would help me even more to, to be without it, but, um, I, I do eat much less bread than I did, for example.

42:44 Much less. I mean, I used to eat a lot of bread, and I cut it down to complete minimum. That’s good. Yeah. I know, you know, Rogan’s been talking lately about how he just, you know, talking about how gluten can just inflame your body naturally.

42:54 When I, when I went on the ayahuasca diet about 2 years ago, or two and a half, before I did ayahuasca, gluten had to come off the diet, and so I stopped doing it, and then I didn’t bring it back. So I’ve been pretty much gluten-free since then. Also, once you drink the ayahuasca, you find yourself avoiding certain foods, like, so you come off, like, you know, obviously caffeine and alcohol and sugar and gluten and any kind of pork products and red meat, and then you find after you drink it, you don’t really want to go back on it, which is really weird.

43:21 So I find that avoiding sugar and gluten, the two white things, you pretty much will avoid 95% of what is sold on the high street, as they say in the UK. So by avoiding those things, you avoid all the sandwich shops, all the pasta shops, all the sugar that’s in everything. And then I find that you’re already way ahead of the game. And then you just start eating the other stuff, which usually means, like you said, lean protein or, like, good healthy vegetables, that kind of thing.

43:46 So, um, I, I think, I think avoiding sugar is something that I’ve tried to do, and I still, going to consciously do it, because I love, I love sweets. I love desserts, cakes, you know, ice cream, whatever. Um, so I, I definitely have those cheat days. When it comes, you know, I’ve been, uh, eating healthy for 4, 5, 6, 7, 10 days, and then that 11, 12 day, whatever it is, I’ll go full out and I’ll eat a lot, you know, either it’s desserts or a burger or something.

44:09 So I, you know, it’s not like I never eat it again. But I’ll, I’ll do that, and then I’ll try to stay away, away from it for for a while. Um, just because I, I’ve, I did it. I tried it, and it makes me feel better. It’s simple.

44:21 If it didn’t, I wouldn’t do it. I’m not one of those crazy types who thinks this is the way to go, and this is how I should do it, and because this, this guy and this guy says that. No, I’ve seen it for myself. I tried it. It works, and that’s it.

44:31 Right? And you’re feeling better? Much better. Yeah, I do, I do. And what do you think you would have, if you’ve been doing that 10 years ago?

44:36 Do you think your play would have been better? Yeah, I think I, I think I would just perform better on the court, as far as just, um, you know, physical ability goes. I wouldn’t be as tired, right? Uh, maybe I would avoid a couple injuries here and there. Um, I would be able to, uh, um, you know, be in better shape throughout the season, because, you know, it happened that I would have a game after a game.

44:54 I’ll be exhausted. I’ll go, and I eat junk food, you know? It would make, give me a quick satisfaction. I’ll feel great when I eat it, but the next day I would be like, you know, right, so tired. You said you used to walk around tired, and then you go to practice, then you would feel better, but you would feel kind of tired.

45:10 Yeah, as soon as the practice, once I warmed up, I would be fine, you know. I’ll be okay, but as soon as the practice is over, I’ll be over. I would be so tired, and and doesn’t happen as much anymore, because I have the energy, you know, and, uh, if I do feel tired, I’ll go, you know, take some fruit right away. Uh, get a freshly squeezed orange juice or something, just to get vitamins in my body. And, uh, it definitely helps.

45:28 And with, I forgot, with what you do, it’s so cumulative. I mean, you got practice, and then game, and then practice. So you can really get worn down. Probably like a long training camp for an MMA fight, or a fight that gets postponed, and they’re going to be like, “Oh, Jesus, another eight weeks.” And you know, it’s just a grind.

45:43 Plus, you got to, like we talked about, you got to add up the the mental game of it, you know? Tough game. You lose a tough game. Uh, you know, a lot of people had expectations, you win, you win it, you know, but you don’t, and then two days from now you have another game. It’s an important game.

45:56 So you have a quick time to recover. You have to, um, unlike MMA fighters who maybe lose a fight and then they have 6 months to recover and get ready again. Here you got to go boom, boom, boom, next game, next game. Right? That’s the big difference.

46:07 How mental is the game of basketball when you, when you’re going against top-level competition? Is there, is there trash talking? Is there intimidation going on on the court? How does that work? It is.

46:18 It is. I think, I think the more important the games are, the more that is, is happening, you know. Uh, I think still there’s more of it in the NBA. The NBA game is more vocal on the court, because that’s an American thing, or because, yeah, it is. It is But I think it’s slowly coming over here.

46:32 You know, you have guys talking trash and, you know, talking all kinds of stuff. But, uh, what language do you talk trash in when you’re in Barcelona and you’re playing with someone from Italy? I’m like, um, I think, I think English is the universal language of trash talking. Okay. So we all use English.

46:47 This is so you make sure the other guys understand what you’re trying to say. Okay. Um, what’s typical trash talk? Can the referee, like, call you for trash talking, or can you say whatever you want? Uh, well, yeah, I mean, referee can give you, but both you and the opponent, if you guys are getting too much into it, they can give you a technical foul, which basically means, you know, you get a couple of those, you get thrown out of the game.

47:05 Um, so yeah, they try to control it. Um, but, um, yeah, you definitely don’t, can’t say nothing to referee, especially not some, some bad words, some cursing, or, you know, whatever. You got to be very respectful to what they do, and what they, how they’re trying to keep the game clean. Um, I’m not the best of that. You know, I talk to the referees a lot, and, uh, oh, you do?

47:22 Yeah. And I got penalized a lot through, my, throughout my career for it. Um, but does it help, though? I mean, if, if you have a precedent, uh, that the referees know that you’re going to not take any comments, do then do you get, do you get better calls? Not in my, not from my experience.

47:37 I mean, look, the superstars, I’m sure they, they, they have, can have a little bit of influence on that, you know, because not just because of what they talk to referees, but because they make sure that the whole stadium sees that they’re talking to him. So it puts a little bit of pressure on the referee, okay? You know, to open his eyes more and to see what’s going on on the court. They don’t. I don’t think they make huge differences, you know, inside the game, but it definitely opens their eyes.

47:57 Um, but yeah, it’s, you know, I think, uh, for me, I think I have better games when I don’t talk to referees personally, but it’s not something that, uh, that I’m good at. You know, when it doesn’t go my way, I like to talk to referees a little bit too much. And, uh, that’s something that, even though I’m 34, I’m still trying to avoid as much as I can. Okay. Do you have better performances when you’re emotional?

48:15 I do. You do? I do. I do. I do, when I get into it, and I really, uh, feel the fire, and then, uh, it’s borderline, you know, fighting with the opponent, or, you know, uh, when you feel that, that’s the way of life and death, to say, like, you know, you’re ready to do anything.

48:30 You have everything you have to to win the game. Um, once I get to that point, I, I play better, ’cause it’s competitive. It’s not about, it’s about winning that game at that time against that guy. Exactly, exactly, exactly. And, uh, I haven’t really discovered the way how to get to that point.

48:46 I think the game itself gets me to that point. Um, but you know, I have proved that the more important the game is, and the more, more it is on the line, usually, obviously the more I get into it, the better I play. Can, um, can guys get in your head? Have you had times where someone’s either intimidated you or gamed you emotionally, where you were like, afterwards, you’re like, I’m not going to let that happen? Yeah.

49:05 Yeah. It hasn’t happened much, but it has happened, where, where, where I would let the guy get into my head, and, uh, you know, I wouldn’t necessarily lose the game, but I didn’t play as well as I could. But I think that was when I was younger. I don’t, I don’t, that doesn’t, doesn’t change phase me. Do they just do they dig at you the whole time, and you’re missing free throws, and they’re messing?

49:22 Some of them, they keep talking to you, and, and, you know, they keep talking to you, and, and they try to get under your skin, but, uh, the older I get, the more I just don’t worry about it. I just laugh at it, and I’m like, “Yeah, whatever.” You know? Okay. And do you, do you use those tactics on other players?

49:34 Not much. Not much. I was never one of those players. I would never. I was never the instigator.

49:37 Okay. I was never the instigator. That’s what they all say. No. Okay.

49:41 No, but really, I, I never was. I try to be very respectful on the court to the opponents. I don’t, even though, if it’s a young player, um, a player that, um, realistically is not up to the level that all the other guys on the court are, you know, the guy that’s just coming up. Um, I’m not disrespectful to the guy. Um, simply because I’ve seen the other part.

50:00 Like I told you, the Grant Hill thing before, when I stepped on the court for the first time and the guy told me welcome to the NBA. I mean, I try to. That’s, that’s, that’s the type of player I want to be. Okay. To the new guys, or to everyone, to the new guys.

50:10 But, you know, still, when it comes to the game itself, I’m going to try to kick the guy’s ass, right? And you’ve always been competitive? Yeah. It’s interesting, ’cause the good MMA fighters say they don’t fight emotionally, ’cause when they start getting emotional, that’s when you see guys lose. But let’s, let’s be honest, they’re very competitive.

50:25 You know, the reason Johnny Hendricks pulls out the win in the fifth round is ’cause he’s been doing that all his life, and he’s highly competitive. That doesn’t mean he’s not. He might not be emotional, but he’s competitive, right? And that sounds like you. Yeah.

50:36 Um, but you know, you also have players who can stay calm, and they don’t even show a facial expression. They have a great game and decide the game at the last second, and doesn’t, doesn’t change, and doesn’t phase them, right? I’m not one of them. You know, I show emotion. I, uh, I’ll be, um, devastated after a loss, you know.

50:50 I’ll be incredibly happy, you know. I mean, I, I, we won the Spanish league, and it was a huge victory for our club, and I, I mean, I cried after the game. He was, when he said that’s cool, crying like a baby, just because, first of all, you know how much it means to the club and to the people for winning it. But second thing is you realize how much you put into it. So once you win it, and once you get it, uh, I don’t see a problem in letting your emotions out, you know?

51:15 Okay. What’s Barcelona like? I’m supposed to actually be there next, uh, next week. I love that city. I, I call it, what do I call it?

51:21 It’s like the Paris that’s, that’s actually fun and relaxed, you know? It’s got all the class and all the history and all the beauty of Paris, but the Spanish, they don’t take themselves so seriously, and I just, that’s why I love it. And it’s got the beach, and it’s got the downtown. What’s it been like for you? Uh, I lived there for a year now, and I’m going to live there, you know, for one more season.

51:40 Going to play there next year. So, um, I had a chance to see the city and live in the city and to experience it. And I got to say, it’s my favorite European city. You know, it’s, first of all, it’s beautiful. It’s clean.

51:50 It’s easy to get from place to place. Um, but like you said, it’s got the center, you know, it’s got the beach. You drive a little bit out of the city. You’re up in the hills to overview the, overview the whole city. A lot of things to do.

52:02 Uh, people are nice. Um, but there’s one important thing. You know, they like to call themselves Spanish. They’re from, their, Catalonia, right? So that’s the, that’s the big thing that I had to be aware of when I, once I got there.

52:11 Um, but other than that, look, I mean, it’s, it’s a, it’s all that, what I said, but most importantly, it’s a great sports town. Obviously, FC Barcelona is one of the biggest sports names in the world, club brands. Um, and, and to, to play a sport in Barcelona, I think, is every athlete’s dream. What’s it like to be, like, a gypsy man? I mean, you, you change cities every two years or something.

52:33 I mean, what’s that like, to come to a new city? You got to make friends with the people in the club, but it’s just always new. Yeah. I, I, uh, I always thought, like, I, when I was younger, I was like, I hope I’m going to be a player who’s going to play his whole, whole career in one club, you know, or one team in the NBA. I always, like, wanted to be that, you know, to get that.

52:51 Does that, do, does that happen? It does, you know, here and there. I mean, or majority of your career, let’s say eight or 10 years, you know, like, it does happen. Um, but now that I’m older and look back at it, I’m so happy that I had a chance to move around, because I lived in, in cities, like I said, Houston, New Orleans, you know, New York, um, Moscow, Istanbul, Barcelona, you know. I mean, who knows where I’ll play next?

53:13 And, uh, and those are some of the nicest cities I’ve been in. Uh, met some incredible people that I wouldn’t, if I just stayed in one place. And, uh, I was really, really lucky to have a chance to, to travel around, and, and, and to, to experience all that. Talk to me about charity work. I saw you in Africa.

53:28 You were in Chad. You were taking some pictures and talking about their water supply, which is something that we, you know, we take for granted in the West. Um, do you go out of your way to do charity work. Is this something you’ve been doing for a while? What happens?

53:39 I, I’ve done it, uh, I’ve done a couple of, I mean, many different things throughout my career. I always wanted to be involved in charity and help the people who are not as fortunate as I am. I think that’s very important to do. Um, even though some people see it as, as, um, they don’t understand it. They’re like, “Why you doing this?

53:52 Why don’t you spend time on the beach in the summer and, and have fun?” It’s just something that I get dragged into, you know. I just, it just, it just pulls me in. Okay. Um, to help other people.

54:02 Um, I don’t know why. I don’t know why I have that. I don’t know. Maybe it’s my parents, you know. Maybe it’s, it’s the people I’m around, my family, my wife, that we talk about it with.

54:09 That’s how you want to live. Um, but yeah, I was in Africa last week, and, uh, it was a lifetime, life-changing experience for sure. I mean, things I’ve seen there and things I’ve experienced, um, you know, the, the, the, the horrifying things I’ve seen. It changes you. Watch out.

54:24 I mean, no, no one, I bet, people couldn’t even put, pull Chad out on the map. It’s Saharan, right? Yeah, it’s like in the middle of the Africa. It’s right in the middle of the African continent. It’s Sahara on the north and sub-Saharan um, area in the, in the south of the country.

54:37 Okay. Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s fighting, um, it has a lot of and it’s fighting against, against, uh, uh, you know, water supply, or what I’m trying to say, they don’t have water. So the big problem in the country is the water supply, um, because of the drought, because of the, the areas where, um, maybe 30, 40 years ago, there was land that you could grow crops and, and grow, uh, vegetables. Now it’s gone. Okay.

55:00 And, um, you see thousands and thousands, thousands of malnourished kids, who are babies, who are, um, dying because of not getting enough water, enough food, um, besides the malaria, besides the other problems they have. And, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s been an unbelievable experience to see that, and, and my mission was, um, you know, I was there on a UNICEF mission, was to, to inform the world, to inform Slovenia and other countries about the situation, because I even didn’t have no idea about it. I knew that Chad is in Africa and they have some problems, but not to extend that, what I’ve seen there, I mean, people, um, just, you know, sitting around the corners of the streets, just not being able to find water and food and, and basically dying.

55:41 It’s something that it’s tough to experience, but it’s necessary to do it and to tell the world, and, and hopefully things will change. They’re moving in the right direction. I’ve seen changes on the, on the, on the spot. Um, but it’s coming slow, and it’s coming, um, you know, late, and, uh, people are dying because of it. What do they need?

55:55 Do they need, do most of these places just need some basic, like, water pump technology? Do they need clean water? Or is that the issue more than, well, what UNICEF is doing is, um, they need. Yeah, they, they’re putting in water pipes, um, you know, water pumps that, um, you pump water out of the ground, but as the water comes up, it’s already going through filters. Okay.

56:14 So it comes out pure drinking water, right? I’ve seen those pumps. There are many uh, there already, but there’s so many still missing, the villages without it. They got to walk, you know, 3, 4, 5, 10 km to get to the closer water source, which is in the ground, and what the water they pull out is brown, is, is dirty, and they drink that because they don’t have anything else. So yeah, um, the mission is to, to put there as many, as many water pipes or water pumps as possible.

56:38 Um, but they dig, you know, up to 60, 65 m deep to get water, and the locals there are just not, don’t have the technology. They don’t know how to do it. So I think the Western world has to help. That’s all they need. That’s all they want.

56:49 They’re going to get back on their feet if they get water. That’s what I believe. And it’s like, it’s, it only comes down to a few hundred pounds or something, but it’s about getting that technology, so it goes steep enough, so it gets natural filtration, then they get clean water, and then they can start doing normal things, right? Like planting crops. Yeah.

57:03 Because you got, you got to think about it. Like, even the water source is, is 5 km away, that’s most of their day, right? Yeah. It’s, I mean, and they have, they have kids doing that, you know? I mean, the 9-, 10-year-old kids that their job is basically get up in the morning, go to get water, and bring it back for the family.

57:17 Um, but you can, maybe it sounds easy, walk two, three kilometers to get water, but think about it. You’re walking in a 45 Celsius degree. I mean, you, 45 Celsius heat, on a sun, one way, and going 3 km, come back with, you know, two buckets full of water. I mean, do that daily. You know?

57:33 It’s, it’s water that probably makes you sick. Exactly. So I mean, it’s 2014. We, we shouldn’t be talking about this anymore. I’m, there’s problems all over the world, and Chad is not the only one, but getting, you know, people having water, I think that’s, that’s a thing we shouldn’t be talking about anymore, right?

57:48 And you know, you, you, you’re a celeb. I mean, you have celeb status when you go do these things, people see, right? Well, in Slovenia, you know, yeah, the athletes are, are really well respected. Um, I’m, I’m really happy that UNICEF turned to me and asked me to help. I was likely to help, um, so yeah, I’ve been one of the faces of the campaign in Slovenia this summer and, and this fall, and, uh, um, I think we did a good job, because a lot of people have told me, and, and I’ve seen people talking about it, that they had no idea how bad it is over there.

58:14 So I’m happy we did that. I’m happy we opened people’s eyes, and that was our mission. Talk to me about podcasting. Talk to me about Joe Rogan talking about your own podcast, London Real. When did you start listening to, to podcasts, and how’s it kind of changed your life?

58:27 Uh, first time was maybe, uh, four or five years ago. Uh, when I was listening, I mean, I was trying to find a good um, MMA podcast or something to listen to, you know, when I’m in the car, because I was living in Istanbul, and you spend a lot of time in the car, because of, it’s a huge city, you know, it takes time to go from place to place. Okay. And you’ve been an MMA fan for a while? Yeah.

58:47 Yeah. I’ve been, MMA, first time I’ve seen MMA was in 2000. I was in Japan. So I’ve seen the Pride fights. Oh, yeah.

58:52 Sakuraba and those guys, and Vanderlei fighting, uh, on TV. I had, we had a world championship there, basketball world championship. And you saw, and I saw Pride on TV, and I was like, I can’t believe that we actually, I had no idea this was even a sport, or this was happening. So I started with Pride in 2000. Wow.

59:08 Yeah, 2000 was when I saw the first MMA fights. I went twice to Japan. Yeah, I was there twice also. Yeah. Incredible.

59:14 Yeah. So that’s where I saw first, and then, you know, UFC followed, and with the whole boom with Ultimate Fighter, and I’m not sure which year was it, but, you know, the first season. Yeah. It was late, wasn’t it? That’s probably 0 0708.

59:25 Oh, maybe, maybe 05, 05, I think, 05 or six, but yeah, that’s, you know, I was following it up to then. Uh, I was watching it on pay-per-view in the States and inviting my friends over. Everybody, everybody was like, what are you watching? What is this? You know, and I already knew about it, and after that, you know, it just became so big, and, and of course I follow it still today.

59:43 But anyways, I was, that’s, that’s what I was trying to find, a good radio, uh, show that would talk about MMA. So I was searching for it, and I saw Joe Rogan has his own podcast. Okay. Okay. So I thought he was just talking about MMA.

59:55 I thought that’s what it was, because I knew Joe Rogan from being a commentator for the UFC. Right. And you found him on YouTube, or Vimeo, or on iTunes? On iTunes. On iTunes.

1:00:04 So I, I downloaded it, and I, I’m not sure which episode was it, but I saw, I heard that he was listening, he was talking about, um, something completely different, some interesting guest about universe, or about you know, uh, he was probably talking a lot about weed back then, whatever it was, you know. And uh, that’s how I, that’s how I started, and, and I liked it. And, um, I listened to Joe Rogan for a couple years, only to his podcast. Then I started adding others, and when you were a guest on his podcast, that’s how I caught up with your podcast, and, uh, and that’s how it, it all, it all expanded.

1:00:35 Yeah, it really changed things. I mean, uh, you know, we’re coming up on 3 years for London Real in October, but I mean, I think it was a year before that that I started watching Joe’s show on Vimeo, cuz they would upload it. And it was back when he did it at his house, and it was like the split screen, and like, we used to have split screen here. I mean, that was all straight from Rogan’s, you know, Rogan’s lead. And I just remember having, you, these, listening to these three-hour conversations, and maybe because he was talking about things no one else would talk about, whether it was, it was weed or not It wasn’t the fact that he was talking about, uh, weed, as in it was counterculture.

1:01:07 It was just someone saying something different and being proud of saying it, and being proud to have an opinion that’s different. I think that’s what I agree 100%. That’s, it started opening my eyes, and I started thinking differently because of Joe, and, uh, uh, thinking outside of the box, you know, basically, and, and, uh, yeah, the way he has the courage to say all these things, even though he’s a public figure, uh, and the guests he has on, and, and all that.

1:01:30 I learned so much from his podcast. So much. I mean, things I didn’t know, whether it was about history, business, uh, universe, uh, MMA, whatever it was. I mean, I learned so much from it. It’s unbelievable.

1:01:42 Yeah, I think that’s, that they call it a meme. You know, when, when humans see something that the other humans do, and we copy it, and uh, you know, Terrence McKenna said memes are like genes. You know, they’re actually, people see something, and then they move on, and they mutate, and they go in weird ways. I think what Joe brought to the table was being completely, like, they call it being congruent. So, like, just owning up to everything about yourself, and being honest and open about it.

1:02:05 And I think everyone else kind of ran with that, in a way that we didn’t even realize it. Yeah. So everyone’s just like, whatever. You know, we came out and did our ayahuasca thing. You just be you, and then everyone else kind of goes from there.

1:02:16 But, but it seems, it’s interesting, interesting to me, how many people were craving for that? Yeah, I know. You know, because all, all we knew, I mean, all I knew up to that point was traditional media, censored media. That’s it. You know, whether it was, was sports, it was ESPN or CNN or radio, or, or radio, or, you know, Slovenian TV stations, radio stations.

1:02:33 That’s all I knew. And I thought that’s, that’s all I knew. I need. That’s all the stuff I need to know. Once you discover podcasts, Joe Rogan’s, yours, and, and you know, many others, and, and when you listen to those conversations, when people have actually time, they given time to talk about the issue, to talk about the stuff they know, to talk about their experiences, uh, you get the stuff you get out of it, is, is impossible to compare to a regular TV, radio show, or or a news, you know, news show, whatever.

1:03:00 Yeah. It’s like apples and oranges. It’s like dolce diet versus, uh, sugared cereals, you know? Um, and, you know, the, we’ve had Tim Ferriss on before, and he says you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And I think that’s true, but I also add podcasts in there as well.

1:03:15 So if you spend a lot of time listening to people talk about cool and having good, open opinions, I think it enriches you as a person, you know, when you start, and I spend hours daily listening to this. So I’m definitely, it has spawned off, and it’s, it’s a part of me now, is how I think, you know. I know that I mean, you know, it’s just, uh, even my friends and my family knows already that, uh, you know, I see things differently. I think about things differently because of those podcasts.

1:03:40 It’s, so it’s obvious, you know, I’m a different person than I was five years ago because of that. I’m not saying I’m better. I’m saying I’m different, and I believe it’s going in the right direction, is because I just opened my eyes and ears more than I, you know, that I’ve done in the past. Yeah. I think my, my, my brother came and visited me from Switzerland, and he was having coffee in the morning with his his, his wife, who’s Swiss, and, you know, they’re, it’s a conservative country, and I was like, they’re having coffee, and I’m like, yeah, that, you’re having a, a conscious-altering drug, caffeine.

1:04:04 Like, this is not a drug. Like, well, you know, just that’s when you first start noticing. And, and, and another thing is, when I listen to Joe, Joe Rogan, you know, talk about weed, you know, I never done weed. I mean, I, I passed every drug test I had, and I had many throughout my career. Right.

1:04:22 Um, but, but, but it’s interesting, because I agree with him on, on the stance of what marijuana should be and shouldn’t be. You know, I mean, you see alcohol being sold everywhere. You see cigarettes being sold everywhere, advertising everywhere, people dying because of both these things. Uh, when it comes to marijuana, which is a medicine, basically, uh, it’s such a strict, um, you know, non, uh, you know, you’re not allowed to talk about it. You know, it stops here, no more.

1:04:47 You know, it’s, it’s, it’s unbelievable. And, um, you know, even though I’m not allowed to do it and I never done it, it’s something they agreed about. And, um, I even talked to my friends about it, and they’re just like, “You’re an athlete. You’re not supposed to say that.” I’m like, “Look, this is what I believe.”

1:04:59 And it doesn’t mean I do it, but this is what I believe. Right? Cuz it’s illogical. It’s just logic. It’s like, “Well, just, you run the numbers, and you’re like, ‘This doesn’t make any sense.'” Exactly.

1:05:08 Exactly. Talk to me about your podcast, and when you’re going to start doing it in English, cuz you do it, you do it in Slovenia, right? Uh, soon. So soon. Hopefully we’re going to do it in English.

1:05:17 We have plans to do it in English, and, uh, we have, uh, some, some people lined up, and I’m, I’m going to ask you, too, if you don’t mind. You, you, you should be a guest on our podcast. I don’t do many podcasts. It doesn’t mean, it doesn’t mean, it doesn’t mean you have to fly to Slovenia, because we do our most of our stuff over Skype and audio only, but we have plans to do it in English. Uh, we’ve done over 20 episodes now in Slovenian.

1:05:37 Um, it caught up quickly. People love it. They understand. They’re starting to, starting to understand the logic behind it. We’re trying to offer different things than traditional media, you know, stuff.

1:05:46 We, we talked about a couple. What’s the podcast called, and what’s it about? It’s called which means details. Okay. So basically we talk about different details.

1:05:53 Yes. It means details, like it in English. Um, and basically we had, you know, from basketball players to, you had one of the best boxers, European boxers, who is Slovenian. We had, we had journalists, uh, we had movie director on it. Um, so you know, a lot of people from different, different way.

1:06:11 We had a astronomer on it, Slovenian guy. So a lot of different people from different areas, and, and that’s something that, um, you know, people who live, listen to it, they love it. They’re like, we don’t know what’s coming next, and whatever it is, it’s an open conversation, and we, we learn something new, and that’s what we want to do, because we just want to talk, you know, freely, talk, relaxed, and, and, even though we learn, it, me and my friend who do it together, we learn a lot from it, but, you know, our listeners learn a lot from it too, and that’s the whole goal.

1:06:36 I don’t have, I don’t have any personal goals with it, but it’s, I just want to spread it throughout the, as many people as possible, so they can enjoy it, and they can, they can see what podcasting is. And the funny thing is that, um, since we started doing it, uh, and my friend has a, has a network of podcast, more and more podcasts are joining this network. So in Slovenia, we have about 15, 20 podcasts now. Two years ago, maybe it was one or zero. Nice.

1:06:57 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s hard to, I’ve said it so many times. I’ve said it on the Joe Rogan show that people should just try to, to start their own podcast, and we had a bunch of reels that sprung out, and they’re everywhere, and sometimes they come and go, but, like, it’s awesome.

1:07:09 But what you know, from doing it, is just, by doing a podcast, all these wonderful things happen to you. I mean, first of all, you just push yourself to meet new people, and then you put content out, and then, like, everyone likes what you’re doing, and then you inspire someone else, and, like, yeah. It’s, it’s just, it’s just like I said, yeah, it’s just, uh, uh, it’s like a domino effect, you know? I mean, one domino falls and just goes, goes, goes, goes, goes.

1:07:31 And I said, you know, me and my friend, he said, “Let’s, let’s start it. Let’s see how it goes.” You know, a couple episodes, but once we did two or three, I knew it’s going to be winning for a long run. You had to keep going? Yeah.

1:07:40 Because it just, we enjoy doing it. It’s, it’s something that for me, as a professional athlete, is something that, it’s a hobby of mine, and it relaxes me, you know, gives me a chance to have an outlet, to, like, completely stop thinking about basketball for an hour or two, and, and focusing on something else, and it helps me, because, um, once it’s over, once it’s done, I have, you know, when I switch back to basketball, um, I just feel more energy for basketball, because I’ve done something else for a little bit. Now I can get back into it.

1:08:05 So it helps me from a personal level also. Isn’t that funny how that works? Yeah, it is. Yeah, it adds. Are you the most famous Slovenian in the world?

1:08:13 No, I’m not. Sure, I’m not. But you know, like I said, the athletes are popular. Slovenia is a small country, but we have athletes on every, in every sport, at the highest world level. I mean, we have basketball players, we have good football players, um, hockey players.

1:08:26 One of our hockey players was a two-time champion with LA Kings. Okay. Uh, we have skiers, we have cyclists. I mean, swimmers, I mean, everywhere you look, we have athletes. It’s like a, it’s almost like a, it’s a weird situation to be a small country and be so successful in sports.

1:08:40 It’s, I think it’s one of a kind, for sure, cuz it’s 2 million people. 2 million people. Yeah, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. But it’s a, it’s a sports country.

1:08:47 So, um, yeah, I’m not a super celebrity, because Slovenia is a small country. So we don’t, we don’t even have super celebrities, because it’s almost has a feel of everybody knowing everybody on a personal level, because it’s so small. You meet everybody sooner or later. You know what I mean? Um, but yeah, like I said, you know, athletes are popular, and I’m, I’m happy to have a chance to represent, you know, Slovenia in different ways.

1:09:08 And for you, what’s next? Is it, is it every year, where you know whether you’re going to stay at Barcelona? How does that work, and, and then work? Right now I’m focused only on, on playing you know, next season in Barcelona. We’ll see what happens next.

1:09:20 Uh, you know, hopefully I’ll still be healthy and feel good, so I can continue my career for another year or two after that. Um, but I don’t have a long-term goal. Um, I’m still not sure where, where I’m going to settle down with my family after I’m done playing. Like I said, I’ve seen so many nice cities, so it’s going to be hard to decide. Um, but who knows?

1:09:36 Maybe it’s going to be London, because it’s a place I never lived in. But yeah, from what I’ve seen, it’s a beautiful city. You like it, right? What do you like about London? What are you feeling while you’re here?

1:09:46 Uh, well, it’s hard to say, cuz I only been here for days, but for a day, but I already seen the center, obviously, the, the Piccadilly Circus and Oxford Street and all that. So it’s, it’s, it’s nice to walk around there, but the parks are unbelievable, just, just nice. Yeah, I, I went, clean. Yeah. Clean, and so um, you know, organized in the middle of, middle of the city, and organized, and I, I rented a bike today, you know, was, you know, rode about for, yeah, for 2 hours or something like that, and, um, to see in a couple of those parks.

1:10:12 It was just so nice, because you’re in the city, but you’re not. And I really like that, you know, because I never liked living in the center of the city. I always like to live a little bit outside, when you have more parks and more nature and all that. So, um, and, you know, I’ve seen the science, um, I was at science museum yesterday. Amazing.

1:10:28 Yeah, I’m going to go to the Greenwich Observatory tomorrow. See that? Um, so I’m going to try to see as much as possible, cuz I’m only here for 3 or 4 days, right? Nice. Do you, uh, do you meditate or do any practices like that?

1:10:38 No, my wife does, every day, for hours. She does it, and she tells me so many good things about it. Yeah, she does in the morning, and usually one, one session during the day. And, um, I just don’t, I was never good at yoga and meditation, because I don’t have the patience to sit still. I know it sounds weird, but I don’t.

1:10:54 For such an enlightened guy? Yeah, I don’t. And I, and, and, and, and people tell me that I should, I should do it. I should try it, you know. Um, I, I don’t think, I think meditation is something you have to be ready for.

1:11:05 I’m just not ready for it yet. Maybe someday, but I’m not ready for it right now. I think you’re right. I think it’s like, uh, ayahuasca. I think it’s something that, that you find when you’re ready.

1:11:13 And, uh, yeah, I’ve done both ways of meditation. I started off, and then I went away from it, and now I’m back to it. And, uh, but I, I think it really helps for me. Like, I do it. What I do now is I wake up in the morning, I brush my teeth, and I go right back into bed.

1:11:25 Mhm. And I sit up in bed and bust out like 20, 25 minutes. And I find that when I do that meditation, sometimes it has to take, like, a week or two to get into the flow. But once I do that, I feel like I can control myself. And without that, I don’t feel like I’m always totally in control, you know.

1:11:44 So I think, someone, I read a book one time, and they said it was like, a, a rider on an elephant. That’s like you and your body and your mind. And that, like, ultimately, if the elephant wants to go rip down that tree, it will. But as a writer you can kind of be like, “Ah, let’s go over here. Let’s go over here.”

1:11:58 And so I think with meditation sometimes it just helps you kind of. Yeah, I mean, I, I know. I know all about this, and I know a lot about um, you know, the good stuff that it brings. Something that I, that I, that I could get into it in the future. Um, ’cause I’ve seen other people do it, and I’ve seen it helps them, and, uh, I, I don’t see why not.

1:12:14 And also ayahuasca is something that I, I’ll try to do after, when I have more time. I, I know I listen to your, I listen to your experience, and I listen to many other experiences, and, uh, uh, I know it’s something that not a lot of people know about. Um, especially not the people that, um, are, you know, my friends and, and family and stuff. And, uh, but it’s something that I want to try. I think I think, uh, I think it’s already calling.

1:12:35 I have that feeling that I need to do it. Yeah, I mean, if, if you’re already hearing the word, you know, then I guess that’s saying something to you. You’d be amazed how many guests that I’ve had in here that ask me about it, sometimes on the show, sometimes after the show, the last people you would expect. Did, did you, did you ever hear anybody saying that they had a bad experience, for, for, and, and that it changed them, in, in a bad way, that they came back not the way they wanted to be?

1:12:57 I’ve read some things online, and I’ve, and, and some people have sent me messages, but I’ve never met anyone like that. I remember when we went and first talked to our shaman, and before we were going to go in, and we met with her first, and, like, I was really hesitant, and I didn’t want to do this, and, you know, I was a control freak, and, you know, all this kind of stuff. And so, uh, I remember we asked her, I was like, well, I heard one time that a guy was like, watch, demons were following him around for, like, a week, and she’s like, oh, that rarely happens, and I was like, oh, Jesus.

1:13:26 But, um, I mean, the thing is, is, you know, people talk about bad trips. You know, ayahuasca isn’t like a traditional trip. But we, we had a guy in here talking about psilocybin mushrooms. His name is Simon Powell. He wrote a book called The Psilocybin Experience, and he said there are no bad trips.

1:13:42 You are just learning at a rate you are not accustomed to. And he had a really good point. And it’s probably like, if you ever had a bad breakup with a girl, you’re probably learning at a rate you’re not accustomed to. You’re learning really fast that she doesn’t want anything to do with you, and it sucks, and then you find out later that you become a better person, and you built, and stuff like that. So I’ve, I’ve had really tough times in ayahuasca, and I know other people have, but usually it’s helped me in the long run.

1:14:06 And when I’m about to go into an ayahuasca session, or any other psychedelic session, I am not looking forward to it. It’s usually cuz I set myself a deadline, and I have to go in and do it. But it’s not like I’m like, “Yeah, it’s, I can’t wait. It’s going to be great.” Because I know it’s not going to be great.

1:14:22 I know I’m going to be confronted with some things that I’m not going to be happy about. I’m going to be taken to some really uncomfortable places. Um, and I just try to breathe through it, and just realize that’s part of the journey, and that’s part of the. So how many times you done it? Um, ayahuasca, I’m at three.

1:14:37 Um, we did a whole show on DMT. Obviously, that was the one and only time I’ve actually done DMT. Um, and then I’ve had about four psilocybin experiences of varying degrees. But, but you never done ayahuasca in, in, in the jungle. Never gone to the jungle.

1:14:50 I’ve always had my UK. What do you, I mean, the, I’m sure you talked to some people who have done that. I mean, is, is there a big difference, because I think I, I believe from what I read and what I listened to, that if it’s done, it should be done the right way, to go to the jungle and experience there. But at the same time, I don’t know what, what the, what the big difference is. You know, I’ve heard both.

1:15:07 I’ve heard people say that when you’re on, when you’re in the jungle, it’s different, and you’re on her turf. I’ve also heard other people said that once you drink it, drink it, you know, you’re in your own world, and it doesn’t matter where you are. Look, I think it’s important to make a commitment. So that’s what the diet’s all about, and if you’re going to make a journey to South America, then that’s important. You’re making a commitment, you’re traveling for, you know, days to get there.

1:15:28 I think it mentally prepares yourself, and then you’re in the middle of this jungle with the sounds and everything. I could see how it could really be a big deal, you know. At the same point, um, I think if you have access to it in Europe, and it’s getting really big on the continent, that that’s okay too. Um yeah, I, I had an interesting, I, I thought when I was, uh, when I was in Chad, because we were in the middle of the desert for a week. So I, I could see the point of being in an environment that it’s, uh, it’s, it’s calm, or, you know, jungle has its own sound, like you said, environment.

1:15:57 I, I could see the, the, the, the point of, of being in such a location, you know, even though the desert can be deadly and it’s cruel. Um, you could find incredible peace there, cuz once, once it got dark and once it got quiet, it’s completely different, for what the darkness and the, the, the quietness, how to say it, you know, here in the city, completely different. Yeah, and I could see that. I, I found after my ayahuasca, when I was in the middle of London, it was just too much.

1:16:21 I remember walking down Old Street, and there was like a bus, and I was like, Jesus. I mean, you really don’t want to be around any of that stuff. So yeah, I could see that. I could see that being a big benefit. I could see you want to go out to the countryside and do it.

1:16:32 Of course, I haven’t done that. Um, so I can see definitely the benefits of doing that. Um, and I also just, while I’m on this, I definitely think that there’s something different between the ayahuasca experience and the psilocybin experience, and even of course the DMT experience. And there’s something about the ayahuasca that I think really teaches you some core life lessons about the people, the loved ones in your life, that I don’t think you can replicate with psilocybin.

1:16:57 Yeah. You, you had Graham Hancock here, right? Yeah, we had Graham Hancock. I read a couple of his books, and, um, yeah, he’s, he’s one of the, he’s one of the guys that I listen to. That he, I think he was a strong believer of doing ayahuasca in the jungle.

1:17:09 In the jungle, I think that’s, yeah, only, and he does it every year, and he’s also done bogga, and some talked about as well. I think that’s an interesting one. I’ve heard all sorts of different things about that. He wrote a book, and he talks about doing that, uh, which you can actually do legally here, funny enough. So, well, that’s something down the line for me, if, if, if I, if I have the courage to do it, you know, when I’m done playing, you, and all that.

1:17:29 Um, for now, like I said, um, I have to be really careful with, uh, with, uh, with drug testing. Is drug testing very strict for, um, it is? We do it. We do it quite, quite, quite a lot during the season. I mean, um, they test for everything.

1:17:42 Yeah. Yeah. Performance enhancers, and, uh, all that, steroids, you know, even, even weed, and, and, and all that. So, um, it’s something that I’m, I’m proud of. I never, I never failed the, the drug test, and I’m, I, I intend to keep it that way until I’m playing basketball.

1:17:56 Nice. As Ronda Rousey says, when you’re a professional athlete, your body is your business. Right? Exactly. Um, who’s going to win, uh, the upcoming, uh, light heavyweight champ?

1:18:04 You know, Jon Jones was fighting Gustafsson. Now he’s got Cormier. Do you, do you see, what do you see happening? Man, I, you know, I do and I don’t. I like Jon Jones.

1:18:13 I like him because of his ability, talent, and the way he’s fighting. I don’t like everything else around it. I think he’s too cocky. I think he’s too, uh, full on himself, but deservedly so. You know, he’s the best on the planet.

1:18:24 It’s funny how, like, one of the greatest pound-for-pound martial artists is probably the worst martial artist, right? Yeah. Cuz, I mean, he’s had time now, and he really just, he isn’t the Georges St-Pierre. Yeah, exactly. And GSP was my favorite for the longest time, just because of that, besides the fact what he’s done inside the Octagon, for the stuff he’s done outside the Octagon.

1:18:43 So, and most, most of the champions are actually like that. Well, I mean, Anderson Silva was a little bit, but, but if you look down the lines, most of them are quite respectful. And, yes, yes. I think Jon Jones is a little bit different. So I don’t know.

1:18:55 I mean, um, I, I thought Gustafsson would be able to surprise him if they fought again. I really thought that he would. Even though the first fight he was, it was close, and a lot of, a lot of people thought that the second fight is going to be easier for Jon Jones. I wouldn’t agree with that. But with Cormier, I’m not sure.

1:19:10 I think his, I think the agility of Jon Jones is going to be too much for Cormier. He’s just too long, too agile, too quick. Um, so I see him winning. I see him winning. Um, not even the decision.

1:19:21 I see him winning before the, the fight, the fight, fight ends. Yeah, me too. I mean, Cormier is tough, and Cormier is a winner. Like, he knows how to win. Like, he just knows how to win.

1:19:30 You can tell. And he’s been wrestling all his life, and he just knows how to win. I know. I don’t think I’ve ever said that about another fighter. So it’ll be interesting.

1:19:37 And he, he could really surprise Jon, but my money’s on. Also, to defend Jon a little bit, I mean, when you’re the champion, especially the light heavyweight champion, everyone’s talking rubbish about you all the time. And so, like, I think, in a bit, that he has to build up this persona, and do these stupid, um, you know, Instagram video posts that look really juvenile. I kind of understand why Jon’s doing it. And they talk about Ali, like, if we had watched Muhammad Ali, who I’ve got a picture of on my wall here.

1:20:03 If we had watched him in the prime of his career, I bet we would have thought he was a real douche, because he was just, he was talking so much. In retrospect, you look back, and you’re like, oh, he’s the greatest of all time. But he was just, really, he took it way too far. So maybe that’s what you need to be the champ. You know, maybe, maybe we’ve seen both, and he’s definitely working for, for Jon Jones.

1:20:24 So, and don’t get, don’t get me wrong, like I said, he’s a great fighter, and I, and I really hope he, he stays the best for the longest time, because he, he does deserve it. He is the best. The things he does in the Octagon, you don’t see from many other fighters, and you always see somebody coming up and, and doing some new things and new tricks, but I think he stands out. I think he’s, he’s the best. I think it’s because he just flows so well, and he does that new stuff, from like that last fight with Terara, the way he, like, cracked his arm.

1:20:47 Unbelievable. His arm. Unbelievable. A move, and then, like, I think, like a meme, like I was talking about earlier, somebody said in the gym, like, they had people trying that same move on, afterwards. We’ll probably see more of that.

1:20:57 Yeah, yeah. Just like the front kick, right? Um, from Anderson Silva, and then fighter, you know, Machida later with, with Couture, and so on and so on. So yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s crazy how quickly the, the fighting styles are evolving, and all that. I, I, you know, as a fan, I, I find it very interesting, and, uh, it’s, it seems like every fight you watch, it can bring something new.

1:21:17 Yeah. And with John, yeah, I just think he’s going to, he’s just kind of got that next level. Everyone else, he’s ahead of the game. It feels like game. Yeah.

1:21:23 He’s like 21 and 0, except for that DQ. I didn’t realize he, like, I think those rules are a little bit funny. I mean, a little bit, you know, with the elbows, and, and, and and with, with, you know, not being able to, to knee the body when the guy has a, three, two legs and arm down on the, I mean, some guys are using that rule to, to stay out, out of trouble. And I think they, they definitely need some changes. And I think that Joe Rogan was also talking about the gloves that they need to change, because so many eye pokes and all that.

1:21:48 So yeah, we’ve seen a lot of those eye pokes, and Jon Jones is one of the worst when it comes to the pokes, cuz he’s got that reach, and he just does that. Yeah, yeah, we need to see some changes. And that, that hands on the ground thing is tricky, because I even think the rule is, you can, if you start to throw the knee when they were off, and then they put them on, it’s, it’s okay. But I don’t even see how you can decide in that split second, you know, like when you’re either in one or the other position.

1:22:09 I know. And some of the refs actually do a pretty good job of that. And like, even in slow motion, it was hard to see when they were doing it. So yeah, we’re going to see some rule changes, I hope. Um, book asked people a few questions here at the end.

1:22:20 I’m going to hit you with the same questions. You might know these are coming, but, uh, if you could make a phone call to the 20-year-old uh, Boki, and give that young man a bit of advice. Uh, where were you at that time? Uh, I was in 20-year-old, I was in Italy. I was just, I just became I was just the youngest.

1:22:35 I think I was the youngest um, foreign player in Italy, Italian league. So it was, it was, it was nice to be 20 years old, the youngest foreign player. It was a big thing back then. And you’re in Rome? I was in, no, I was actually in Treviso.

1:22:47 Treviso is right next to Venice. It used to be a huge basketball city. There’s no more basketball club there now, because it’s all connected to sponsors, and you know, they don’t have the, the, the money to do it anymore. But it used to be one of the powerhouses of European basketball. So that’s where I was as a 20-year-old.

1:23:00 So if you could give him, this is a great question. If you could bring that guy up and give him a bit of advice now, knowing 14 years later where you’re at, what would you tell him? Um, I would, first thing I would say is, um, eat healthier. I think that would be the first thing I learned, because, because through that it would help me a lot to, to become a, a better professional. Um, it would, it would, I would have more discipline, and I would be able to, to perform on the court better.

1:23:25 Um, but there’s, there’s, you know, it’s, it’s a good question, but it’s a tough question also. Yeah. Um, because, um, I keep saying to myself, I wish I knew all the things back then than I do now. And I’m sure all the people say that. Um, but one thing that I had back then, when I was 20, is it was to chase my dream already.

1:23:42 So that’s something that I don’t have to say to myself when I was a 20-year-old. Um, but yeah, eating healthy would be one thing, because I think it would, learn me a lot. It would teach me a lot about myself, the discipline, and it would help me become a better player. It’s funny, because if you look at yourself back then, I mean, what got you there was talent. And what gets those, a lot of those MMA fighters, at least in the early days, was talent.

1:24:02 So it makes me wonder, if guys like that, they’re like, almost, like, I’m not going to eat well, I’m not going to do all these things by the book, because I’m here because I’m great. You know, it seems like, so it seems like the last thing you would want to do? Exactly. Because it happens so fast, right? You know, you’re 20-year-old, you’re playing Italy, you’re one of the best players in your, in your class, in your age, in, in Europe, and you don’t think about it.

1:24:22 It just happens so fast. Um, I think if, if, if there would be another thing, I would just say, um, be more cocky, be more, um, self-confident, be more, um, more of a douche on the court or in general. I think I was too nice. Really? Yeah, I think so.

1:24:35 Yeah. Interesting. But, but who knows how that will turn out? So yeah. Well, I mean, can that hurt you when it comes to clubs wanting you?

1:24:41 I mean, does personality play, or is it really all about, I think it does. I think it does. People want, I mean, you know, teams want players that are team players, that understand the team chemistry, how to win. Um, you know, they don’t want selfish, egoistic players. Uh, even though it does happen that a lot of times the best players are, um, ego, you know, egoistic.

1:25:00 They are selfish. They don’t want to. They’re isolated, like they have a wall around them. It happens. Um, but I, I never, I never was one of those guys, and I never would want to be.

1:25:09 Okay. Um, best advice you’ve ever received? Um, best advice, I’m not sure from who. It was probably when I was, when I was younger. Um, maybe from my dad, or from my parents, or somebody that was close to me, but basically always believe in yourself.

1:25:23 That was something that, um, I would always tell myself before the game, even though I had ups and downs, but it was always, you know, believing yourself first, otherwise nobody else will. So that’s something that I always kept close to myself and, uh, and try to think about it before games and, and stuff like that. Were you, were your, was your father a sportsman? Were you, are you? He played basketball, never professionally, but he was, um, he was, you know, he was he still is a big basketball fan.

1:25:45 You know, he plays, even though he’s, uh, he’s way over 50, he’s playing, uh, basketball a couple times a week with his friends, and, uh, he’s just, uh, he’s out of pure love, you know? Okay. Did he push you as a kid to play? He, he, not pushed me, but he definitely helped me a lot to, to become, um, the best basketball player that I could be. He was my first coach when I was a kid.

1:26:02 And, okay, and helped me go to practices, to, you know, different cities. Drove me to different cities to, to attend practices, because we didn’t have it in the town that I was from. Um, so he helped me. I wouldn’t say push me, but I would definitely, definitely say help me. Okay, last question.

1:26:16 Um, to the 20-year-old listening out there, what advice do you give to them? What should they be thinking about, you know, around that age? You know, when they got this whole life ahead of them, you especially, all the, all the knowledge you’ve gained. I know it sounds so used up when people say, you know, follow your dream, but it’s so much truth, truth in that, you know. Um, if you have a goal to become, you know, to do a certain, to become a, what, it is, an architect, or scientist, or basketball player, whatever, you know, go for it.

1:26:45 Follow it, because it, it’s, I can tell you from my experience, it’s worth giving everything. You know, it is. I think if I didn’t succeed, I would still be happy that I gave my best, because if you don’t do that, then you always regret it. I really, I really believe that. Do you know people that haven’t tried and regret it?

1:27:02 Or, yeah, I mean, I mean, you see it. You see people who say, “Oh man, I wish I practiced so much as you did when I was younger. You know, I wish I didn’t go out, you know, clubs and hang out with my friends, and instead went home to get some sleep, and, and, and be ready for practice next day.” You know, I had friends like this who have done it, um, maybe they didn’t have the talent I did. Maybe they would never succeed, but they definitely regret it.

1:27:22 And, um, that would be the advice, you know, do 100 percent, follow it. Um, because at the end, if you don’t make it, you still have that feeling of giving all you could, and it counts. So you don’t regret it, basically. I mean, you don’t want to be the one that regrets it. Exactly.

1:27:36 You must get that a lot from people when you go back home, or from people from your home that see you, and they’re like, “Oh, you know, I wish I could have done this.” I mean, you must be a magnet for people that want to tell you what they could have done. A lot of times it happens, when especially I mean, not not just at home, but, you know, you travel around, and you have, you know, people hang on to you, and they tell you their stories, and how close they were to making it.

1:27:58 But, you know, if I didn’t just drink that much at that time and party, you know, I could, or, you know, but it all comes down to, um, you know, pushing all that aside. There’s so much temptation out there that wants to, want to, um, turn you away from your goal, whether it’s sports or other stuff. Um, I think it’s very important to keep your mind on the goal. Um, and I, I’m not saying I’m perfect. I’m never saying I’ve done it perfectly, but, uh, I can definitely say that I’ve, I’ve really tried my best to do it.

1:28:24 Um, and, um, especially when I was down, and when I didn’t make, it, didn’t get the contract I wanted, didn’t, you know, had injuries, and all that. Um, to keep fighting, you know, want to get back, want to be the best I could be. Uh, I think once you do it, the, the feeling is is, uh, it’s hard to describe. It’s good. Yeah.

1:28:41 Don’t be a victim. That’s what I always keep thinking about. If you ever catch yourself telling your victim story, then just shut up. Like, I, I can catch it from a million miles away. You hear it all the time.

1:28:51 Like, and sometimes it sneaks up on you. You hear it on a news program, and this boy, when he was younger, or this, you hear about someone, all these dire circumstances, don’t have it. And everyone’s got one of those stories, and no one wants to hear your story, cuz they all have those stories too. You have it. I have it.

1:29:05 Everybody’s successful. Michael Jordan has it. All these guys have the bad things that happened in their life, and then they went ahead and did it anyways, you know. So everyone has a great sad story they could tell you. They just choose not to tell you.

1:29:17 So yeah, I would say, don’t, you know, and don’t tell yourself that story in your head. Yeah. No, you have to, you have to, uh, you shouldn’t let that stuff pull you back and pull you down, and, and feeling sorry for yourself, you know. Um, I, I’ve, I, I’ve never done it, even though I, I could. And, um, um, you know, I’ve shared my frustrations and my problems with the closest family.

1:29:40 I’m like, I said, I can be emotional if I let it out. Otherwise, I’m, I’m pretty close and quiet. But, um, I never let those things pull me back and pull me down. You know, I could always find in any, anything I did, I could find a reason. Um, I could find a, yeah, reason, or find a motivation.

1:29:56 You know, if, if I didn’t get a contract, I won, I was like, I’m going to fight even more to get that. You know, if I didn’t win, I’m going to fight even more to win. If when I was injured, I’m going to fight, I’m going to work my ass to get in the best possible shape I could be, to get back on track, and be, you know, on top of the NBA, I mean, the NBA league, or top of the European League, or whatever. And, uh, like I said, you know, it’s important to have those goals, because they push you, right?

1:30:19 And always keep looking forward. Keep looking forward, right? Don’t be looking back. Exactly. Good advice.

1:30:24 Um, do you have sponsors besides, like, Barcelona? Do you have your own, like, separate sponsor? Does that work like that in basketball or not? I mean, it does, but, um, you know, right now I don’t have a sponsor. We get a lot of gear from the, from the clubs.

1:30:36 I used to have sponsors when I was in the NBA, you know, get gear, and, you know, Nike, whatever it was. I had Adidas, you know, a year or two ago. Um, but, um, I don’t right now, simply because, um, you know, FC Barcelona takes care of the players and when we get our stuff that we need. Um, so no. But, you know, obviously the superstars, the better players, they have all kinds of endorsements and all kinds of sponsors, and getting extra stuff and free stuff doesn’t hurt, right?

1:30:58 Never hurts. Um, how do people, uh, follow you? I know you’re pretty big on Twitter, and, uh, how do they get your podcast? When’s it coming in English? All that good stuff.

1:31:06 Yeah, I’m on Twitter, Boakbar. Um, I tweet in English mostly. Also, in, also, I would say English a lot, but also in Slovenian. You can translate these days, right? Google Translate.

1:31:15 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, usually, usually I like to, I like to tweet, tweet in English. Um, when it’s something that is not directly with my friends in, from Slovenia, obviously I talk to them in Slovenian, but other than that, I’ll try to, to tweet in, in English.

1:31:28 Um, so yeah, I think I, I have way more followers on Twitter from outside Slovenia than from Slovenia, I would think. So, right? Um, I don’t, never did the analytics on it. I’m not, I’m not, I don’t like myself so much to see who’s following me and who doesn’t, but that’s that would just be my opinion. Okay.

1:31:42 Um, here and there I would get, uh, somebody complaining, oh, tweet in English more, you know, we don’t know what you’re saying. So I always apologize, and I try to make satisfy, I mean, try to satisfy both. Um, but people in Slovenia do speak a lot of, you know, especially young people speak English. So they understand. And that’s your preferred social media?

1:31:57 Are you on Facebook? Yeah. Yeah. No, I’m not. You know, I have a Facebook fan page, but I’m not, you know, I don’t, I don’t do a lot with it.

1:32:02 Um, I mean, there’s news there. Um, people help me with that to update things about my career and then things I do. Uh, but mostly Twitter. Uh, that’s, that’s my thing. And podcast, uh, I’m sure I’ll tweet about a lot once we start doing it in English.

1:32:15 Hopefully soon. We have, we have plans to do it. So yeah. Okay. And you want me on, right?

1:32:20 Yes, it would be, that would be awesome. One of the first guests we could talk about podcasting itself, because it would, it would also help um, you know, people in Slovenia hearing a voice from outside Slovenia talk about podcasting. I’m a big fan. You know, we had some guys in, uh, in Vancouver recently, uh, do Vancouver Reel, and, uh, it’s just been with the guys that do it. I’m just so impressed, and, like, they just, they love it, like, everyone’s loving it.

1:32:41 They’re getting engaged with the community. They’re really good. They’re getting better cameras, better mics, and, like, these guys did a Midwest Reel as well. They did their own, and, like, those guys are killing it. They had BLI on there, like, three times.

1:32:52 Yeah, I’m talking to Dell about being a guest, so hopefully when he started doing English, he already said he would love to do it. So, um, he’s, he’s one of the guys that, he’s also a great guy, an amazing guy. I just read his book, Create Your Religion. Yeah, I saw you tweet out about that. That was nice.

1:33:05 Yeah. BL is great. I, I interviewed him at his house in LA when I was there about a year ago, and he’s such a fantastic guy, such a, a nice dude, with crazy history as well, you know, is a, you know, he had a baby girl, and his wife died, and he was raising her alone, and, like, you know, he doesn’t always talk about that, but he’s, he has quite, but this is, this is, you know, this is, we can go back to it. The, the, how funny the people you meet through podcasting are, and those are the people that I, that I admire, that I follow, that I look up to, you know, like Joe Rogan, um, yourself, um, Daniela Boule, who has his own podcast also, even Brow.

1:33:36 He’s a funny dude, and I like, like him. Uh, and so on and so on. I mean, it just goes on. Like Graham Hancock, you know, I, I first time I heard about him was, was him being on Joe Rogan and your podcast. I mean, that’s how I started following him and see how he’s doing.

1:33:47 And it’s funny, because in the last 5 years I met so many people through podcasting, and those are the people that I follow now. I think the people that I was involved with before online and so on, I’m not involved anymore. This is, this is the people that I want to hang out with, you know, even though we’re not, you know, seeing each other, you know, or spending time together, but still online. I mean, internet gives you the, the opportunity to do that.

1:34:07 Anyways, isn’t that crazy how your whole life just changed, and, like, if it was 20 years earlier, your options would have been seeing a blockbuster movie or watching a TV show, and now you can hang out with all these people and choose who you want to be, and, and, and also, yeah, it’s, it’s like you said, you choose who you want, and this is the crowd you hang out with now, even though you’re not in the same city, but this is the people that think the same way you do, are very similar, and it’s easier to, to find yourself inside of that, those circles of, of people. So, um, that’s, that’s definitely something that I’ll keep doing, because, um, it simply, you know, it helps me as, as a person. Dude, I, I’m not surprised you’re as cool as I hoped you would be, but you are.

1:34:44 So I guess that proves that the, the podcasting man, it, it filters everybody out, you know? For sure. For sure, it does, because it’s not for everybody. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, I’m not saying we’re better. I’m definitely not saying that we’re not better than other people, but we are people that, that get along well just because we think alike, right?

1:35:01 And this whole new world of podcasting is like, you promote everyone else. You’re not fighting over space, because there’s like an infinite amount of space. So it’s all good. Um, thanks so much for coming by. Uh, when I got, remember I got the message from you like a couple years ago, and I was like, who’s this guy?

1:35:14 Professional basketball player? What? What? It was like, crazy. But I think you were one of the, like, first, kind of, like, definitely first sports personalities that contacted us, and I was like, so you were always like on our list of guests.

1:35:24 So I’m sorry it’s taking so long, but it’s so good you’re here. Um, come back again sometime. It’s great being here, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s been amazing. Like I said, I was, I’ve been following your podcast for a while, so it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s really an honor to be here. So thanks so much for, for having me.

1:35:37 Cool, man. Thanks for listening. As we say, it’s about the journey. Uh, all the best on yours, and thanks