Ayahausca – Back from the Dead

Full transcript: Ayahausca on London Real

0:00 Hello and welcome back to London Real. I am Moonchild and joining me is my usual co-host Space Monkey. Today, joining us in studio is mother Ayahausca. We made it back, homie. Yeah, that was a trip. What a wild, strange ride it’s been.

0:45 That was a wild and strange ride. It’s been in the back of this podcast for like six months, right? Because you challenged me for the Ayahausca challenge. I think it was our episode three. You know what the funniest thing is? I was the one pushing you to do it and then when we got in, I was the one who freaked out. That was funny. What, before or like during? Before and during, man. I mean, you saw the state I was in in the first like 40 minutes. Yeah, that’s true.

1:12 I was not in a good way. Yeah, it was really weird on the day of and the day before. I don’t know if it was because I was doing so much meditating or I think I had accepted it as a given. Yeah, you went Jedi. Yeah, I just went Jedi. I think it’s like you don’t cry over spilled milk and for me, the milk has been spilled because there’s no way I was going to back out of this.

1:27 There’s no way I could face myself as a man. So I assumed it was done. And so I just was calm, like an execution, like I was going to get killed the next day. I was just like, okay, let’s just be calm. So, and you were, you were cool, but you were like, jittery, right? Yeah, I was a bit edgy. I was definitely edgy, man. I mean, yeah, for a bunch of reasons, which we will probably get into later in the show, but yeah, I was definitely edgy. Okay, why?

1:48 Um, man, I just, it was, it was ultimately the Judeo-Christian conditioning. Okay. Like this is, this is witchcraft. This is demonic. Wow. You really brought a lot of that.

2:00 Yeah. Didn’t you? Yeah. And you had just seen family in South Africa and they were kind of, you got that reinforced in you, didn’t you? Exactly right. My mom and my brother were like, this is, this is going to be a demonic thing. And, um, and the roots of that stuff are on deep, man. Okay. I mean, so it’s intellectually, I knew it was nothing to really be afraid of, but, um, yeah, but that doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything. When you go into experience like that. That’s interesting. Cause I didn’t bring any of that with me, but I could see if you did that, I mean, if you look a step, take a step back from everything we went through that night. I mean, holy shit, that was some class a like, you know, grade A witch shit that was going on. That was some, some fucking voodoo happening. Yeah, it was spirits and, um, singing and chanting and costumes and you name it, amount of herbs and other supplemental. What did you call that stuff that we took? Um, I mean, there were just other medicines, medicines, but I mean, that was some proper, like what’s that scarlet letter type witch shit, you know?

2:55 I mean, I just, would you have, if I had told you five years ago, if I’d, if I’d filmed a similar thing, like obviously not with you in it, um, and played it back to you five years ago and said, Brian, do you ever think you’d do that? What would you say? If you had filmed what happened that evening, but not with us with like someone else and said, Brian, you’re going to do some, you’re going to have a similar experience in five years. Highly unlikely. Even if you had told me two days ago, what was going to actually happen in that room for six hours. I mean, seriously, there was some crazy stuff, but I guess if you’re a, if you’re not, if you haven’t been tuning into our last episode, um, Nick and I, uh, went on Monday evening to an Iowa Oscar retreat.

3:32 It was in the UK. We’re not going to go into too many more details, but it was in the UK. We’re not going to hide that. Um, and, uh, and, uh, we went in and we drank Iowa Oscar. Um, and it was the real deal. And, um, it was the real deal. It was, uh, the real deal. I must say, I don’t think we could have had a better experience as far as I don’t think what it came to the ceremony, the shaman, the medicine itself. I don’t think we’re going to give them a shaman, a pseudonym for the, for the show. Right. Yeah. I don’t know what we should, um, how about Suzanne Suzanne or she would, I was thinking we could use a letter.

4:04 Is that too obvious if we used a letter? Okay. I was going to say our shaman, but, um, you know, okay. Well, if it comes up, I’ll say Suzanne, you know, I’m talking about, okay, cool, cool. Um, so that’s the deal. We, we, um, she would just kind of go into some basic semantics and just describe kind of what happened and then we can talk more about what happened. So we, um, we met at, uh, at Victoria train station, right. And, uh, then we took, uh, we don’t have any more details than that. Yeah. We, we took the train already giving things away.

4:32 We took the train to Waterloo. Yeah. Okay. And we took the train to our final destination, which was, um, well, the ceremonial room where we were doing this was going to take place. Right.

4:45 And, um, I mean, we got there and I think, I mean, I was excited, don’t get me wrong. I was nervous, but I was excited as well. And I think you were, you were too, right? I was ready. I was ready to go. And, um, it’s funny cause we met her and she said, okay, I’m going to give you guys a mild dose. And part of me was a little disappointed when she said, me too.

5:01 Exactly. You were as well, even though you were jittery. Yeah. But I was thinking to myself, look, we’ve come this far. Do you know what I mean? It’s kind of like, it’s something you dread in your life and then you get excited about doing it. And then if someone takes it away from you, you’re like, wait a second. I wanted to do that. And that’s why I was this point. I was like, let’s do this. I’ve prepared. We did the diet, the mental preparation. And I was like, let’s just give me the good stuff. I was, I was, um, disappointed, but I was too freaked out to protest me too. At that point I was like, she knows what she’s doing and I’m just going to shut up. I did that most of the night actually.

5:29 I just shut the hell up and let her run the show and try not to question too much stuff. She really took control, didn’t she? Yeah. I mean, one of the, the questions, um, we could answer that right now. We’ve had a bunch of questions on our Facebook. Thanks for the questions, by the way. Some of the guys at London Real, we had about 12 questions today, but go ahead. I think, I mean, if you could read it, it’s one of the lower ones he’s asking about the role of the shaman in the, oh yeah. Fantastic. It was Rodney Sizemore. Um, I hadn’t, I didn’t know Rodney. I think he’s a guy that neither one of us knows. Um, Rodney, thanks very much. Really intelligent question. He said, can you discuss the role of the shaman and how you feel that she added to guided enhance the experience? Um, it is very interesting that this is some simply not taking a concoction that makes the quote unquote trip. What a great question. She, I think she was, she was pretty much the experience. I can’t say enough about her.

6:17 Yeah. I will, I will be friends with her for the rest of my life. There’s no doubt about that. Yeah. I think, I think you’re right. I think she, she had so much empathy, um, and so much dedication, so much caring to this ceremony and she put like her whole heart in this evening.

6:33 I mean, you know, you can’t fake that dude. You can’t fake that. I mean, she, she not only walked, she not only made us feel very comfortable, she’d walked us through what was going to happen. She administered the medicine, which was probably some of the best medicine that we could have found maybe on the planet, you know? And then she had supplemental medicines, which let’s be honest, she didn’t have to have for us. It was all part of an experience that she takes, I think personal pride with. And, um, then she, let’s be, she sang for five hours straight, right? Am I wrong with that? Yeah. And she did a whole bunch of other stuff, which was, I cannot imagine how spiritually, emotionally, and physically taxing that must be on. I mean, she purged spirits from us at one point. And after doing that, it made her, uh, vomit and throw up. I mean, you know, we, you know, not that, you know, okay, purging is part of the ceremony, but I mean, she put a whole heart into that. You know, you know, um, when you, uh, okay, because she’s, she’s a very healthy, attractive, vibrant looking person, right? We can agree on that. Yes, she is. And there was one point where you were, you had gone to the bathroom because you were, I think were taking some strain, like with your digestive. So I don’t know what was happening, but you were talking about that. Yeah. And she was, everything was done by candlelight or not, not the whole ceremony, but at this point we had a candle on

7:45 And she was just sitting across. Um, we were chatting. This was towards the end of, of when we were coming down. And, um, you know, I could see she was, she was so exhausted. I could just see it in her face like that. I could see how much that the holding together the whole ceremony and warding off those, those dark entities in the beginning, I could see how much it had cost her. And like, and I was just, I felt so, I just, I loved her. I just thought she’s such a beautiful person. You know what I mean? I have to agree. I haven’t seen that much.

8:19 I haven’t seen anyone do that in a long time unless someone’s I’ve known for a long time, but you know, she did that really selflessly and she had met us once before. So, and I think in the beginning, both of us were, I mean, it wasn’t a huge amount of money that we, that we had spent on this, but it was a, it was a decent chunk of change. And personally, I think I speak for both of us when I say that we were kind of like, is this worth it? And then at the end I was like, I actually wanted to pay her more at one point. I was like, that was the money we gave would, I mean, there was nothing compared to what she gave us. Yeah. We were there for about seven hours. And, yeah, I agree. It was, um, it was, yeah, it was nothing compared to what she gave us. Well, well said there. Um, she just put so much spirit into that. It’s, um, it’s just hard to imagine how she does that on a regular basis, how she does that with people she doesn’t know.

9:05 She obviously takes it very seriously. And to get back to what, um, uh, Rodney was saying, I can’t imagine doing that without a shaman because she’s there. She administers the medicine. Like Nick said, for the first hour, when we ingested it, she stayed quiet in the corner and she was really warding off these evil entities that were in the room that I didn’t see you saw. And she said, and I, apparently Nick and I brought a lot of masculine energy and some nay and some negative, well, negative spirits came out, but we brought some pretty serious energy into that room. She said, and, um, she had a dog by the way too. And the dog was, um, picking up on all the energy and spirits. He was cool. He was freaking out sometimes.

9:38 Yeah. I liked him a lot. Um, you know, what, what, what I thought was funny, Ryan is looking back now I have to laugh at, um, when it, when it happened, it was, it was terrifying. When what happened? Well, at the beginning, you know, so what happens is we discussed the ceremony. We discussed, um, we, we put our intention into the actual bottle of ayahuasca. Like we, we sit around in a circle holding hands and we give our intention. And then, um, uh, she says some prayers and we say our own little prayers and we, we drink the intention. What Nick’s talking about is the questions we want answered with things that are on our mind. Yeah. So go ahead. Um, and then we sit in the dark, you sit in the dark for 45 minutes and during this 45 minutes, you’re not allowed to purge or puke. Right. Are you trying not to purge so the medicine can take effect into your stomach? Exactly. So we all three drank in a circle.

10:23 She actually did some spirit work on us with the tobacco. What do you call that a tobacco wand? It’s like tobacco leaves all on a one. Yeah, I’ve got a tobacco leaf over there that I found later in my, in my stuff. Um, and then we went, we went to our own places on our own futons and other rooms, dark, and then we were told to be quiet and meditate for a half an hour of 45 minutes while the medicine takes place. Um, so at first I was like the classic, um, hallucinogen, um, mistake. It’s like, Oh, this shit isn’t doing anything. It’s not working. This is a bum dose. Yeah. Um, we took this about 8 p.m. By the way.

10:55 Yeah. Just, just after sunset. Right. And, uh, so were you thinking this isn’t going to be much? Yeah. I was thinking this isn’t going to work. I was just thinking I’m not sick. So that’s good.

11:05 And I was thinking I don’t feel anything and I don’t know what’s going to happen, but it can’t be that bad. But then I also knew, okay. Yeah. So then I got up and went to the bathroom and went to the bathroom a couple of times. Yeah. I think my adrenals were like, um, we’re just kicking in and I was just ahead. And that makes me like before you do match, actually, I got to take a piss like every five minutes because your adrenal stimulator, your kidneys, which goes here. Um, and then like the second or third time I came back from the bathroom, I was, it started to kick in, man. It’s like, it really, it came over and I, I was under attack from some kind of thing. And it’s my understanding that my fear, this entity or these entities were feeding off my fear. I believe that.

11:43 Yeah. I could feel it there. And I just could feel that right away from the beginning. Yeah. And you could see the darkness or you could just feel a little energy.

11:50 It was, I could see it, but not, um, cause it was dark, right? So I couldn’t really see anything in the room, but I could see it in my mind if I could, and it wasn’t, it didn’t, it wasn’t characterized by a specific humanoid form or something that you could like draw, but it was like, um, it was a dark energy. That’s the best way I can explain it. Yeah. It was, it was something dark because she hit the chime at 45 minutes, which was letting you know you could purge now. Was this just after the chime?

12:19 That’s when it kicked in around right around then. Yeah. She lit a candle then right after the chime. Yeah, I think she did. That’s when, and do you remember, of course you remember, I just was like, um, Suzanne in this like meat little voice. And then she was like, yes, honey. And I was like, can I have some help? Yeah. Yeah. Cause you said you, you had a evil spirit on your hand or something. No, that was later. That was there. I was lying down, but cause you were feeling sick. I was, I was nauseous as hell.

12:44 And I remember I heard her saying it’s part of the process and I can’t, she’s like, I can’t, I can’t alleviate and I can’t help you purge is going to happen in time. Right. That’s what she said to you. She was like, this is part of the medicine working. Okay. Yeah. I remember that. And Matt, if I tell you another thing, like I was, I was undergoing some psychological trauma at that point because I was, my ego was starting to break down. Literally it was who I was was starting to disintegrate. I was like, I remember one thought was, I can’t remember who I am. Really? Like, yeah, I was like, I was trying to hold onto Nick, like this construct. Okay.

13:14 I was, I was reaching and it was this energy was like just coming over and just, you were actually trying to hold onto Nick. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And that’s probably what was making it so difficult. I was wondering why you did, but maybe it’s an ecchisysatural thing. That’s what was, was causing, causing it to be so difficult. And I know her voice, like her face, singing at this point. No, she didn’t start singing yet, but okay. Just her voice and her presence and the way she was like, if our shaman had been like, if, if our shaman hadn’t been as good as her, I could have gone to a very dark place.

13:45 I believe you. Because she was, she’s kind of stern but assuring, right? She, I, cause it’s funny cause Nick, when Nick would speak, it kind of broke my concentration. I’ll be honest, because you know, I’m kind of dark and trying to experience this stuff. Yeah. I apologize about that.

13:58 That’s okay. I mean, you know, if it was six people in the room or eight people in the room, I imagine, but so I kind of was like, oh, okay. And I heard everything she said. She’s like, look, look, it helped me a little bit. She’s like the nausea as part of the process is part of the healing. I can’t help it. And you’re going to have to just deal with it. And I can just try to, and I think she did some work with the tobacco leaves or something.

14:15 I’m not sure. I can’t remember. Okay. Now I started getting, I started feeling it at that point too. So I was in the, I was really happily meditating there for 30 minutes and I was honestly, I was really happy.

14:25 I was feeling what I was like, what a wonderful place I’m in. What wonderful people I’m with. And I was just really happy. And we had that Agua de Florida that it’s like this flower water. She put on her hands and we breathe through our nose and I was getting all sorts of aromatherapy highs. I was already a little bit high before we drank. Cause I had all that. She just, I don’t know the ceremony was getting to me. And what was that? That wood that she lit on fire.

14:46 It was like a, I can’t remember some type of smoking. And so I sat there and then I was looking and I’m not seeing anything. It’s all black. And then I started seeing a little bits of light. And when I meditate every day, twice a day, and I don’t see bright things of light when I’m meditating. And then I started seeing like black and white particles, moving around and just swirling around. And that’s when I knew it was on.

15:05 Yeah, it’s on. And it was just this kind of amorphous thing. And it’s not electrons, but I could just see it in my head. And, and then it started to really build when I knew that the medicine was kicking in was, I started to, I could see like a, this 3d image of my body in my mind’s eye. And do you know, when you know, like this in movies, they use like, if for certain effects, there’s this radioactive green dye. Yeah. Okay. And I could, I could see that the ayahuasca, like first it was in my urinary tract. I could see it like, and then it was going down through my legs. I could see it working its way through my body, like cleaning the tissues. And, and then it, when it came up and went into the right side of my brain, not the left side, just the right side. And my brain was on fire, man. It was my frontal lobes were hurting a little bit.

15:54 That’s when I first got, got the realization of this is going to hurt a bit and you’re going to have to deal with this. And this is going to be a somewhat painful evening. And that was, and that’s when I got it. It was like, okay, my head’s starting to hurt. You can’t call your mommy. You can’t take aspirin and it’s not going to stop. So I was just like, all right, just deal with it. And my stomachs, I was nauseous most of the night. Um, and that’s when I just was like, okay, just deal with it. The nausea was the worst for me. Besides that, that attack in the beginning, like that was, it wasn’t nice. Was it? No, it wasn’t cool.

16:20 Yeah. I, um, I felt it in my belly and I couldn’t know which way it was going. If it was going to down or up. And I was like, okay, I didn’t purge after 45 minutes. It didn’t want to purge after an hour. And I kept thinking, okay, when am I going to purge? When should I purge?

16:32 When does all the cool people purge? You know, I just didn’t know, you know, what was going on. And at the same time I was now laying down on my futon and all these now colors were flooding in my head, reds and all these stuff. And emotions as well. That’s when the visualizations are in maybe right around 15, apparently two hours when it peaks. And I think that is when it peaks. Cause when she asked if we wanted to drink again, which, which the policy is for everyone out there after two hours, you’re allowed to drink again and not before because she can’t tell how the medicine has affected you. And everything I’ve read two hours is when you get the peak of your ayahuasca experience, when it’s really hitting your head. And, um, I remember we’ll go back a little bit. I remember when she hit the chime and said, you want to drink again.

17:12 I remember opening my eyes and looking at you guys in the circle. And you know, that’s when you, I was waiting for you. I didn’t want to say anything yet. I was just saying like, what is Brian going to say? I was like, yeah, it was funny. And it’s funny cause on a funny enough, an hour later I was thinking about drinking again, but at that point I was feeling very nauseous and I couldn’t have kept it down. And then you said, okay, let’s do it. You’re like, okay, let’s do it. What’d you say? You’re like, well, cause yeah, her, her expression is when in dark drink. And I do get that because later I was thinking maybe I should drink. And then I thought, well, you should drink. I was kicking myself for not taking a second. I still am kicking myself. Yeah. Um, the next time I do it, I’m going to double up. Do you, I was, I was curious.

17:51 Do you think she, that was the chance to drink after two hours or do you think after three hours, she would have let us drink again? I’m not sure. Yeah. I really have no idea. Me neither.

17:59 I’m sure if we’d said, oh, Suzanne Raylee, can we have another dose? She should probably would have said cool, but I don’t know. Cause I want to get back to what I was feeling from one hour to two hours is when I got all of my visions and all of my realizations. I want to hear about those. And that’s when mother was actually spoke to me. You know, I’ve been, I’ve told you before, but for the, for the listeners, I’ve been so excited the whole week to hear what went on in Brian Rose’s head. Well, I appreciate that. I’ve been, I’ve been curious about you and it’s funny cause, um, she said at some point in the night, you might want to walk out and look at the stars, which I was surprised. I thought we might be confined to our futons or something. And at one point, I think around our three and a half, I’m guessing I went outside and Nick went outside and, and we were like walking like we’re in the snow and all the lights were flickering and the branches of the leaves were like very hallucinogenic. And, um, Nick came out and he’s like, is that you Brian?

18:47 And we kind of talked, but we couldn’t really talk and I couldn’t formulate my thoughts. And I was like, he’s like, how do you feel? And I’m like, I feel good. He’s like, so how did you see anything? And I was like, I saw something, but I couldn’t, and I was just rammed a little bit because I was just, I couldn’t, I think I want one, I want our listeners to understand one thing. Um, and that is a lot of what happened to me. And I’m sure it’s the same for you is beyond words.

19:15 Yes. You could, I could not put it into words. And we might’ve lost it as well. We might’ve only retained about 20, 30% of what we actually felt and saw, but yeah, I agree with that. A lot of it was for me, it was images and feelings. And, um, I’ve just watched an interview with Graham Hancock, which I’ll post on the, on the site. And, um, you know, he was talking about this is this vine, but it’s, it’s, it’s this entity that speaks with you. And that’s why we call her mother Ayahausca. And until you’ve drank, it might sound silly, but now that I’ve drank, it’s like you are shown things about your life and you are shown things about what’s you’re doing wrong in your life. And, um, you are shown things and they’re not always the nicest things to see, you know, and the whole night was uncomfortable for me. Even when I was out with you talking, I mean, I liked talking to you in general, but we were out there. It was all, it was okay, but it was a little uncomfortable. And I didn’t know what I felt that as well.

20:02 You did. And I didn’t. And, but going inside and laying on the futon was also uncomfortable. So I was like, okay, I don’t know what to do. But it wasn’t like having a few drinks and talking rubbish. It wasn’t like that at that point. So, uh, but that was around our three and a half. Um, I should tell you what happened to me. So I think from one hour to two hours is when I had all my stuff and kicked in and that’s when all the colors started going into my vision. And that’s when all of the feelings and emotions and like visions and, and, and really statements that she made to me. And I’m actually really curious what you saw because we never really talked about what you did, but if you want, I can, I can start.

20:38 It’s no, it’s up to you. Okay. I’ll talk about it, you know, and I did a video the next day. So Tuesday I did a video as well, just to talk myself through. And I wrote eight pages on Google docs about like my whole experience. And I’m glad I got it down because I remembered it really vividly.

20:52 But, you know, I, you know, I just, it was really interesting. I just saw a lot of emotions, you know, I saw the people in the world and people responding to emotions and maybe it’s because I’m not necessarily the most emotional person or I don’t show my emotions that much, but when you say you saw them, what does that mean? I just saw people and people being emotive. So I saw people in pain and people enjoy and people living their life with anger and fear and love and disappointments. And they were emotive beings, you know, and so, and it was okay.

21:21 And I think mom, brother, I asked was like, look, Brian, these are people. They’re emotional. If you show them something, you do this. And I think she’s one thing was saying, you know, you’re the poker face guy. You’re the tough guy. You’re told all your life to be a tough guy or the poker face guy, or maybe I’m taught to not, not, uh, not have, uh, relationships with too many people because I might get hurt or something. And she was like, you know, this is what people do. They feel they love, they, they, they have a loss.

21:43 This is like what normal people do, you know? And it was like that all mixed up in this whole, like communal with her singing. I’ll go back to what she was singing later, which is one of the things she kept singing, which was Todo es mi familia, which she probably sang about. I’m not kidding. Probably a thousand times.

21:58 You probably said that lyric and I only realized about four hours later that it meant everything is my family. And so like this whole circle of community life, I’m telling you, if James Cameron hadn’t taken ayahuasca before he made Avatar, I don’t believe him because I Googled it and there’s like, you know, 200 blog posts about, he must have been involved because it’s all about, you know, the, and she’s seen the plants and the animals are all ours and they’re everything. And it’s like, everything is my family. And it’s like this. I get this whole like in touch with mother earth. One vision I didn’t have was how big is my bank account?

22:31 One vision I didn’t have is how successful I am. One vision I didn’t have is how much weight I can lift that did not enter the equation. It was all about emotions and relationships and like connecting with people and connecting with the earth and stuff. And so, so I never would have, yeah, that’s not what I expected you to say. I have a bunch of theories of why she showed me that. So she showed me that.

22:53 And then, and then she pushed it even further. And actually she was pretty rough on me. Now that I think about it, but I had these visions of me in this ivory tower with a black balcony. Yeah. I don’t know what it was. And I’m like on the fourth floor and you know what, I’m looking out on my balcony. I’m looking down to, at that point, it was my girlfriend and her eight year old daughter and they were down there living their life and being with emotions. You know what? I was up there choosing to interact them when it was inconvenient for me, when it was okay for me. And when I didn’t want to deal with it or I was uncomfortable, I would go back into my tower and lock, lock the door. And so like for me, I, I, my interaction with people was like changed handles on the TV. And if I don’t like your negative energy, I’m going to turn you off. And this is my mother. I will ask her saying, Brian, how fucked up are you? And she was just like, you can’t do this shit.

23:39 Everyone here is living their life down here and living it every day. And you’re up here choosing to opt out. And that’s bullshit. And that’s what, and I was in, and she kept hammering that through the most of the night when I was in the bathroom. She kept hammering that through it. And I’ll just go really quickly into the, a couple of things. And then I had this really vivid visual image. Okay. And I think this came from human beings feel, and this is what I saw, and this might be disturbing for some people, but I have to tell you this is what I saw. I saw this young African girl in some country, I don’t know, Uganda or Rwanda or who knows. And she, she either was being raped or had been raped by like a bunch of soldiers or something. And yet she was still, she was connecting with this pain and she was still dealing with her life and she was still communicating and living her life, even though she had dealt with this massive amount of trauma. And I think mother Ayahausca was doing the same thing. She was shoving all this emotional trauma in my head.

24:30 And I had to deal with it at the same point. Cause there’s only one thing you can do when you’re in the ceremony and you just have to deal with it. You can’t run from it. You can’t hide from it. And you have to like feel all this, you can’t resist it.

24:40 And I think this woman, this girl, she showed me, she’s like, look at these crappy things that happened to her yet. She’s still living her life. She’s still feeling, she’s still moving on. And if she can deal with this pain, and you can deal with anything and that you’re just a big pussy compared to someone, you know, who’s, who’s feeling pain in their life. And yet they still continue to engage with people.

24:58 And I think she was really telling me something there. So I saw that as like a big, a big, a big thing of just, yeah, I don’t know what she was saying there. So that was that. And then I think I had one of the thing was the Toto es mi familia, where I was just like, I just kept thinking, yeah, everyone is my family, everyone, all the people I meet, family, friends, people I don’t like people that have pissed me off in the past, friends. And then I kept thinking that and then I got hit a couple more times. And then I’ll finish here. The first things I saw were people in my life that had been crying out for some help.

25:29 And I wasn’t doing anything about it. And mother Ayahausca, honestly, she just went up to me and she was like, Brian, help them. She’s like, help them. What are you doing? Help them. They don’t ask for your help. They don’t need your help.

25:41 Why don’t you help them? And there was like these people that have been crying out for a little bit of help by saying something to me that I just didn’t register. Or I just was like, whatever. And maybe one of my friends is crying out for help by not texting me for three weeks. And I’m like, you know what, if he doesn’t want to talk to me, fuck him. But I’m like, wait a second, that’s actually a cry that he needs help. So it’s like, why don’t you go and see what’s up with him and take him for a coffee and be like, what’s up. So that’s something very similar.

26:05 So that’s what I got. It was a lot of girlfriend stuff, a lot of her daughter stuff, a lot of that. But it was a lot of just family emotions. And, and Brian, it was more trying to get me to engage. And I pictured putting a picture on my wall that says, Brian, please engage with the world today. And I still might. And that’s the stuff I got from like one hour to two hours. And I don’t even remember where I was at that point or where I was sitting.

26:28 I don’t even know what I was doing. I’m sure my eyes were closed. And that’s what hit me. What hit you? Um, Brian, I died, man. Okay. Yeah. I died. I, um, at the peak, like when I, when I was resisting and just that, that negative energy was like, trying to crush me. I just, can you walk me through from like the start? Did it go slowly?

26:53 Well, first it’s, it kind of, it was iconic. It was almost like a dark green cloud, man. That was just that I just couldn’t, I couldn’t find my way. I was just lost, you know? And it, and it was the more I was fighting it, the more it was eating me, you know? And then I just decided I can’t fight this. So I’m just going to give up. And I changed my body language. I actually, cause I, my hands were like this clench. And I just thought, and I was lying in like a weird kind of fetal position. And it just said, I’m going to open myself to the whole experience. And I opened my body, lay on my back, opened my palms, which was really difficult. Even now it’s bringing back when I’m putting myself in that position, it’s, it’s actually triggering some memories of the experience. And I understood, I felt like, uh, I was on the forest floor of a jungle and I was dead. It was the death of like my ego and who I was. And I felt almost, uh, I think the best description is little like caterpillars and maggots and worms and little forest like, uh, creatures, insects, and part of the, the forest floor, part of the earth starting to consume me, consuming my whole body. And I realized, how did that feel? Did it hurt? It didn’t hurt, but it, my understanding, and I don’t know if you were the same, but one of, one of the things that kept playing over in my mind is I understand, I understand, I understand, I understand now.

28:25 And it kept telling you the same message. Same, same message. Um, and I felt what it was like to be part of the circle of life. And I thought to myself, like that one of the understandings was when you die, you’re going to go back into the circle, you know, and I’ve known that intellectually, you know, intellectually I’ve read books that have described that, but I’d never felt it. And I think what you said there is the epitome of ayahuasca as you can know everything in the world intellectually, but until it gets drawn into your spirit, it doesn’t matter knowing and feeling are two different things separate things. And I just understood that most fears, many people’s fears, Osho says it. And again, that’s how I knew I’d known about it intellectually, but he said, all fears are ultimately traced back to one root fear, which is the fear of death. And once I did that, once I let go, that’s when it started to bring me information about there. I guess you could put it into two, you could categorize the lessons I was being taught into two basic sections. The one was, it was showing me relationships.

29:35 Yeah. My relationships in my life, it did show. So it went through a bunch of them. And the other one, I’ve had a lot of questions about the human experience, about what we’re doing here. And it was giving me answers to some of that stuff.

29:50 Want to be more specific? So we human beings are, we are representatives of God. That’s one of the things that became clear to me is we’re not servants, we’re representatives. Like we are a microcosm of God. What is God?

30:13 There’s another thing that it said to me, which is going to be my answer to that question. There are some things we’re not ready to know. Okay. So just a higher being? I don’t know if it’s higher.

30:26 Okay. It’s an abstract being. It’s just something that, I mean, there was certain questions where it just said, one of the answers was human beings are not ready for this information. And another one was you are not ready for this information. I mean, that the best way, like this, it’s so difficult to put into words.

30:46 I just understood how like I had this vision of a man, like almost a featureless man. Like I don’t know if anyone’s read the comic, The Silver Surfer. He’s like this silver being. Okay. No facial expressions.

30:59 No facial expressions. And he’s just completely smooth, no skin, no hair. And I understood that that’s like what our souls are like. We’re just these, these incredibly powerful representations of God. Like we are God experiencing this.

31:12 Like it’s, there’s no, there’s no disconnect. We are God. There’s just, and religion and science and all these different things try to take us as far away from that as possible. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s their job to keep us from that.

31:28 So that was very freeing, realizing that? Again, it was something I’d intellectually known for a long time, but it was very, what’s not validating, but it was, it was interesting wine. It’s funny. I just said that and I’m realizing I don’t think you get many freeing things on ayahuasca. I think you get realizations that are drummed into you in a somewhat, somewhat semi painful way.

31:52 And the relationship stuff, did you resolve anything? How many different relationships? Because I could only focus on about four or five people. I had one, two, three, four, five, five. It’s funny how it’s a limited number, right?

32:05 Yeah. And were they the five that you expected? One of them was the one I not only expected the one I wanted. Now you, but you know, as long as you’ve known me in the last two years, at least, you know, I had a bad, bad experience. I do.

32:19 And with a girl. And so if you’re listening to this, yeah, I’ll always love you. You know, I was so hurt, bro. Like I’m doing everything I can to not cry now, but I was, I was in so much pain, man. And I know you were, you know, I was, and it was, it was here, dude, you know, it was, and ayahuasca, like it kind of, it unwoved the pain.

32:44 It was, and you know, it’s gone now. It’s the weirdest thing. It’s like, and dude, I was trying my very best to get over that. You know, I was, I mean, a lot of, a lot of my journey over the past few years has been to come to terms with that. And I was really trying.

32:58 And I think you had made some progress. Yeah, I had, but, but you know what? I was still suffering with it every day. And bro, it freed me, it freed me where nothing else could, you know, was it a, was it a process you had to do? Were you on the ayahuasca or it was a perspective change.

33:14 That’s it. You know, it was a, it said like, um, it was just a change of perspective. And it was also an understanding of something from their point of view as well. Okay. Which I hadn’t been able to see.

33:27 And, uh, interesting, man, I will always be grateful to it. It was incredible. Just, just for that alone, huh? For that alone. It was, it was worth the price of admission for that alone.

33:36 Wow, that’s strong. And I had a vision of another friend, um, who I haven’t been speaking to for a while because he needs help. Um, and he, there’s some, he had a really bad breakup. This was like almost five or six years ago, way worse than mine. Like, and he, I saw him, I saw him in, I saw what happened to him.

33:55 And I saw that he took that pain. It was this like black, horrible, dark stuff. And he took it into his heart and he closed around it and he said, this is mine. And I’m never letting go of this. And I could see what it was doing to him.

34:10 I could see how much pain the guy, it’s like, it’s this festering wound, you know? And that was another huge understanding that, that ayahuasca gave me is, is grudges and negative thinking and fear. All these things are real. They are real energetic entities that attach to you and they feed off you. You are their food.

34:32 Suzanne was saying that to her. She said about the entities in the room or the evil entities that apparently when you take the ayahuasca, they were like a beacons of light and they’re like, ah, let’s go like mosquitoes to a light. And they want to feed off the energy, right? But you’re just saying in every, in everyday life, your fears are. They literally feed off you.

34:48 And she said, I remember her saying to me, these things no longer serve you. She said, you need to let them go because they’re no longer serve you. And yeah, that’s really powerful. Yeah. It was powerful, man.

35:00 It’s it’s interesting because we thought we would go into ayahuasca and she would put a mirror and show us the way that we had been treating people or something. But it’s interesting. You got it from her perspective. And I would have been surprised if mother ayahuasca didn’t address this with you because it was probably, probably your number one priority thing to go. Wow. That’s really good.

35:20 Wow. Well, I’m, I’m really happy about that. Thanks, pal. Me too. No, that’s really good.

35:25 And other relationships among like mom’s dads. Didn’t see my mom or my dad or anything like that. And I got a feeling it’s because I’d just been home and things are actually quite cool with them. But I saw like just a few, a few other relationships that I don’t want to talk about now. But again, you know, whenever you look at a bad relationship, you’re always thinking what, why I’m always thinking what that person did to me or how their actions have affected me.

35:52 And ayahuasca was saying, hey, dude, look at how your actions have affected them. Right. Or look at this from their perspective. Like you’re not that important in their life, you know, like why, why should they, they weren’t doing anything against you. They were just busy or, you know, just making me see how small minded I’ve been when it came to certain things.

36:09 Yeah. She really takes the ego out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Really in a strange way.

36:13 She does it very subtly with me. It was just like, hey, I felt like she really popped me in the back of the head a couple times. It’s like, look, look, you know, what’s going on. It’s not about you. Look what these people have needs and you’re not addressing them.

36:25 So, um, and really subtly how she did that. And, uh, that was, that was impressive about the, um, did you purge? I didn’t. That’s interesting. I did. I will say that, um, my sinuses, I don’t know if it’s a symptom of, of living in London or if it’s from, um, a sinus infection I had a few years ago.

36:46 I don’t know what it is, but my sinuses, especially my right sinus has been completely jacked for maybe two or three years. I haven’t been breathing clearly through my right sinus and that, um, she had, uh, Suzanne had a special snuff. We need to talk about the supplemental medicine that she had. So she laid out to us in the beginning of the ceremony before she said she had these supplemental medicines and they were like these bottles. And I was like, holy shit, what’s this?

37:06 You know, I mean like extra stuff. And she had coca leaves, which we were apparently going to chew on. I never chew them by the way. And then she had a snuff that was apparently made out of powdered dried flowers. Right.

37:18 And it looked white. And then she had, um, eye drops that apparently used in, um, Amazon and Peru. And she was saying how, uh, they use it on old people and they never have vision problems. And you know, it was like eye medicine from the jungle that works like all the time. And now I know what it’s like to be pepper sprayed.

37:35 Oh my God. So, um, so at one point in the ceremony, I’m guessing this is probably around our three or four after we peaked, right? I was coming down and she said, let’s try the snuff, right? So can I, do you want me to describe it? So she takes this, basically this wooden tube and brings you over and packs snuff on the end of one of it and shoves it in your nostril.

37:55 And she asked you, I think you hold one nostril or you breathe out of your mouth and she basically blows it into you and shoots it like, like a blow gun straight up into your skull, into your skull. I felt like it was smacking against the back of my skull. Basically it goes into your nose and through your brain. And it’s like, oh, shit. And you’re already on ayahuasca, which makes you really sensitive to light, to sound and to anything else.

38:18 It’s just a hot white light. Oh my God. And she blew it up one nostril and blew it up in the other nostril. Oh my God. And it came back to your throat, didn’t it?

38:25 You were like, you were like, and I was like, what are you doing to me? But it really cleared you out. Yeah. Because you know, when we were standing in the, in the garden, um, looking at the stars and just trying to process everything that was happening. First time or second time?

38:37 I think it was the second time. Okay. But then I started to like, um, like sniff and I could feel it. It had dislodged all like this gunk in my sinuses and then I was spitting it out. And I mean, since then, every, every morning I’ve woken up with these amazingly clear sinuses.

38:52 And that I haven’t, I can’t remember the last time that happened. On Tuesday, I was walking around in London smelling everything. Yeah. And it was funny how the smell of stale beer is everywhere in London. You, you’re surprised.

39:01 I was like, that smells like stale beer. Wait, the guy in the tube smells like stale beer. But, um, yeah, my sinuses were dropped. And then came the, uh, eye drops about 45 minutes later. And at this point, I’m pretty sure that our shaman could have pretty much said, okay, now I’m going to cut your finger and then you’re going to bleed into the pot.

39:20 And I’d be like, okay. Yeah. So it wasn’t like you’re going to say no. I never thought about saying no. And she’s like, this is going to burn.

39:25 Lay on your back. I’m going to put some on your eyes. I did actually think about saying no. Really? To that.

39:29 Okay. I just wasn’t in the position to do that. I’m glad I didn’t. I’m glad I didn’t too. She put them on, she put it on you first.

39:36 And then I think you started doing your eyes and she moved to me and you were like, It was painful. It was painful. Luckily for me, I can think I was lucky because she did it to me, but then she was right there. And then I started doing it and a part of me wanted to just grab her in the neck. I think I’d be like, but I was just like, I just made fists next to me.

39:53 And my heart rate must have just jacked like up to 150 or 200 beats per minute. Because I was just like, it was just, it was like fire in your eyes. That was one of the most painful things I’ve ever experienced. I think that’s probably true with me. And there’s nothing you could do about it.

40:06 And I think you sat up at first and she’s like, look, you can just breathe through it. She said, breathe through it, breathe through it. And it was about three minutes, four minutes of pain. Yeah. But I must say my vision was HD on Tuesday.

40:19 I was like seeing shit from like two miles away. That was great. That was really good, actually. So I don’t know how we got on that. But so you didn’t purge at all?

40:26 No, buddy. Okay. So right around two hours when she hit the chime and she asked you to drink again. So Nick’s like, okay, I guess when in doubt. So Nick went to, I thought Nick was going to drink.

40:35 So him and Josh Harmon sat there with a candle. And at this point, my hallucinations were on full bore. You guys weren’t floating, but I think the ground was floating underneath you. See, I never had hallucinations at all. Everything for me was internal.

40:48 Internal. Now, in the beginning, I could see it all visually. And when I opened my eyes in the first hour, everything was clear. And like the dog never spoke to me like the son of Sam or something. I’m ashamed.

40:58 They’re like, right. But when at that point at the two hour mark, you guys were almost kind of floating above the floor. I had weird colors. And just I was like, whoa. And I was thinking I should drink, but I was really getting sick to my stomach.

41:09 And I grabbed my bowl because we each had bowls to throw up in. And I was like, I went to the bathroom and because I was going to use the bathroom, which I did. So I used the toilet, but I didn’t throw up. And that was my guess, my purge. And I think I’d eat.

41:24 I’d eaten that day, but I had eaten right up to the two hour mark, 2 p.m. Mark. And I’d eaten something kind of heavy because I’d done this big leg workout and I thought my would get low blood sugar that night if I didn’t eat. So I probably ate a little too much rice and tuna, maybe. So it came out and I was sitting on the toilet and I was just like, OK, and I must I sat there for like 40 minutes.

41:42 I love that. But I kept saying to her, like, this is she’s doing some other work on me. And I was like, I think Brian’s OK. Because I just it felt like three hours. And she thought we all lose track of time, by the way, like at one point when everything was kind of over, she asked us what time it was.

41:55 And I think Nick said four thirty and I said four and it was twelve fifty seven. So we lost track of time. And she’s like, Brian, you’re in there for like an hour. So maybe I was I don’t know. I was in there for a while.

42:04 But one thing I must say, and this is big thanks to the shaman, is that she never tried to get me. And I think that’s that’s she never came in to check on me. And I think that embodies her hands off hands off approach. And that’s what she said from the beginning. She’s not there to cuddle you and say things are going to be OK.

42:18 She’s there to guide you, to ward off the spirits, but she’s not there to to soothe you personally. And I’m really glad she left me alone in there. I was just so happy to be in there. But if you had called her, she would have come. She would.

42:29 Oh, definitely. But I was just so happy to be alone. Honestly, she was singing so loud. I mean, I can’t. She was singing in Spanish.

42:37 These is each others, which are these things. I might download one and play it in the beginning of the episode. And they were actually sometimes they were so loud. And with the with the ayahuasca, I felt like she was singing in my head in the beginning. That’s exactly what I remember in the beginning.

42:50 I was on the futon and I looked up and she was like, two meters away from me on the edge of the futon. I thought she was like walking around me like, yeah, oh, that’s me for me. Yeah, motherfucker. That’s plant this animal is and she’s singing. And and it’s so loud, it’s a little uncomfortable actually.

43:06 But it also puts you into a weird trance later. So going to the bathroom actually gave me some quiet time. And that was nice. So I sat there and then I didn’t know where I was. It was I was like, am I sitting on a toilet?

43:16 Am I sitting on a bowl? And then I had my head against the wall. You know, a bathroom is kind of cold, cold tiles. And it was nice. And I could hear her singing in the background.

43:24 I got to hear her purging in the other room. This is two doors away. So then she was doing the healing work. She was doing the healing work on you. Did she purge on her own?

43:32 Well, what you do is you should do the healing work. And the healing work just for those of you don’t know, it’s literally her like putting her mouth on parts of your body and sucking the negative energies out. Yeah. So she would do that. That shocked me a bit.

43:45 Yeah, I was kind of uncomfortable. I went with it, but I was a little uncomfortable, but I just went with it. Could you feel the stuff being pulled out of you? No, but I came in after I’d been away for a while. I think she did it to you when you were peaking around two, two and a half hours.

43:57 When I came back, I think it was at three, three and a half hours and I’d lost the visual buzz. Yeah. So for me, but I think if she had done it when I was really, did you really feel it? Was it really intense? What happened to me was when the hallucinogenic part of the trip, it started to subside my stomach.

44:14 It started doing something weird. It wasn’t like, it wasn’t a digestive thing. It was, it was some weird thing happening. Almost like a chemical reaction. And you were still in the bathroom at this point.

44:24 My stomach just started bloating. Like literally, it felt like it was going to pop outwards like that, like literally explode. And my guts are going to fly. Really? Yeah.

44:33 Were you worried? I wasn’t really worried. But I just, I called over and I said, Suzanne, is this, is this normal? And she looked down at me and she was like, wow, you’re, you’re really bloated. And then she started doing the, she said, can I do some healing work on you?

44:44 And I was like, sure. And she started sucking this negative energy out and I could feel there was this bad, like piece of energy that kind of, it was kind of like trying to, trying to run away almost. And she, she got it and sucked it out and then she would like almost purge it up. Right. She would throw up in a bowl after she was done sucking the energy out of you.

45:03 Yeah. Um, and that was incredible. Yeah. I came back in and she was like sucking the energy out of you. And I was like, what the hell is going on?

45:11 Cause it’s quite loud. It’s like really loud. And I was just like, oh my God. And so I was like, okay, I’ll just be in the corner. And I laid down on my futon.

45:21 And at that point I felt like I’d been dropped off the bus. I don’t know if you know that term, but it’s like, if you’ve been on some crazy drug and then all of a sudden it stops and it’s like, you feel like you’re on the party bus and then you get dropped off the bus and you’re like, and that’s what I felt. I laid back on my futon. I had no more visualizations. I’m like, I felt pretty sober and all I heard was her healing and sucking over there.

45:39 And I was like, Oh my God. And then she came over to me after she was done with you. And she started, first of all, she started hitting me with the tobacco wand with all the leaves everywhere. And she just concentrated on my stomach and I’m really sensitive of my stomach. It’s like, you know, as you said later, it’s probably one of the most vulnerable parts of anyone’s body.

45:56 Right. And like nobody touches my stomach very rarely. And I’m always like, get away, get away. And she was like touching it and hitting it. And I was like, Oh man, just got to go through it.

46:04 Just like the rest of Iowa’s got to deal with it. Cause there’s no way around it. And then she took it to the next level and then she like pulls my shirt up and she started like, I don’t know. She had using the tobacco in her hands and just like tickling. I was almost laughing at one point.

46:16 She did like 12 times pulling all this stuff out of my stomach. And at the time I thought she knows where to go. Cause that’s my vulnerable part. And that’s where, and plus I was nauseous. And then she started sucking the energy out of my stomach and like throwing up.

46:28 I mean, God, man, it was very intense, really dedicated. And then she sucked stuff out of my brain and I was like, okay, she knows there’s, there’s problems up here as well. Negative thought pattern. And then she, then she blew stuff in my brain as well. So it was like pushing air and a lot of agua de florida, which is really good smelling stuff.

46:46 That was fantastic stuff. I’d love to get a bottle of that. Yeah. That’s beautiful stuff. So, um, so, and then things kind of quieted down, right?

46:54 And you started coming off it. Then when we went outside, I realized we were still pretty jacked up. I was stumbling into stuff and still pretty fine, but I mean, and she kept singing and the, and she was playing some other shaman songs. And now it’s like one in the morning and now we’re coming off. And now it’s almost, it’s really uncomfortable being there.

47:10 Isn’t it? There’s a comfortable laying down. I just wanted to get out of there. Okay. I was like, this was, this was great.

47:16 I learned a lot and it was great healing work, but it’s, it’s time to go. Right. So we did, um, first of all, we did a closing ceremony where we sat and held hands for like, I must’ve been a half an hour, man. It felt like forever. So uncomfortable.

47:26 My back hurts so much, man. You can feel me shift all the time. I just didn’t know which way to shift. It was hurting so much. And she basically said to think we were trying to transmute the negative feelings of people we cared about and to kind of help them purge that through us.

47:39 So we were thinking about family members, friends, and then the whole world population in general and trying to exhale all of their pain. And that’s what we were doing. And then she, she was, she was saying things like, um, to all the people who are suffering around the planet, um, we, we release for you. And then she would cry and then she would say, all those people who are hurting mother earth, they don’t know what they’re doing. And we, we, we pray for our mother earth.

48:06 And she, you could see, she was taking this burden on herself. Very much so. Yeah. I mean, personally, I was quite disconnected from that. I wasn’t, I wasn’t, I wasn’t, I wasn’t feeling a connection with people on different parts of the planet.

48:18 And I was just, I was really feeling connection with her and what she was doing. I was, I was so impressed by what she was doing. Me too. I couldn’t really channel the other, the people’s energy, maybe because it was taking a long time too. And I was just like, wow, getting really tired.

48:31 But I, she obviously did. I know we can’t again, can’t say enough about her and her emotion and empathy and dedication. So we did a lot of that. And then she talked about if we had any anger or things that had bad, had happened to us in the past or people that had wronged us just to get rid of that energy. I mean, the whole ceremony and the whole, the whole process and the whole idea of ayahuasca, it’s such a positive thing.

48:51 You know, I never found any negative energy from her. It’s all about forgiving. It’s all about moving on. It’s all about moving forward. And I just, that vibes so well with me.

48:58 I think that vibes so much with our show. And dude, I was getting this whole chicken and egg thing with London Real that I was thinking about later. I’m just going to hit you with this. Is it like, let’s be honest. I mean, I think to a large extent we did ayahuasca because of London Real.

49:11 I mean, I knew you before, you know, we were friends, we become better friends and we did London Real together and ayahuasca came up. And now London Real, in my opinion, is really about putting all sorts of positive energy out there and connecting with people and getting their opinions and talking to them and getting people’s experiences. And, and, and that found ayahuasca and ayahuasca is all about doing that. It’s about being positive and connecting with people and, and, and all that stuff.

49:35 So it almost two facets of the same thing. And it almost felt like one created the other, you know, and then we found ayahuasca through London Real and ayahuasca principles are almost the same as what we’re doing here. And that’s what I was thinking about. It was like this weird kind of circle. I was thinking, we’ve discussed it before, but I think to a large extent, London Real was our attempt to heal ourselves a lot.

49:59 Yeah, I think we want almost like a psychological experiment on ourselves. We wanted to get some stuff out. And I think that ayahuasca pretty much does that as well. You know, and that’s how they, that’s how they reflected in each other. Maybe so.

50:14 Yeah, maybe ourselves and other people, you know, interesting. Maybe by doing ourselves, we’re actually helping other people in a way. Well, I like to think one thing I understand now. Everything’s everything and everyone’s everyone. It’s just all a reflection of different parts of, of the same thing.

50:31 You know, it’s interesting. You said that right now. It’s like almost like by working on yourself through ayahuasca, you’re helping other people because you’re bringing great energy and your relationships are now much better and, and everything. And help by helping other people, you’re working on yourself. It’s crazy.

50:44 You know, can you imagine if, if a chunk of the population took ayahuasca? I mean, another thing that Congress took that. What’s that? Imagine if Congress did one huge ayahuasca ceremony. Yeah, no, it’s an interesting thought.

50:55 And she said at the end of the ceremony, she’s like, it’s our, it is our job to tell people about ayahuasca, but she’s like, it’s never, it’s never our job to pressure someone to do ayahuasca. And I totally feel that way. I, you know, I would you, okay. So I have a question for you. Just a little bit further on that.

51:10 Like I told my girlfriend or friends about it. And the first thing I say is if you want to do this, you make that decision, go research it, go come back to me in a few months. And if you want to do it, then we’ll give you the information. But you have, it has to come from inside yourself. I couldn’t imagine someone going to that ceremony and not wanting to do it.

51:25 You know, you have to go in there willing to. Without a question, it has to come from, it has to be their own initiative. But my question to you is, would you recommend it for everyone?

51:40 I would recommend to a lot of people, you know, I had a comment from someone in the ayahuasca forum that came to me and had seen Nick and I say an ayahuasca challenge. And he had kind of got some weird vibes from us. He’s like, this isn’t something to challenge or this isn’t something to push yourself. He said, he’s had people come to the ceremony saying, bring it, bring it. Let me show it.

51:55 Let me see what you got. And I agree. That’s the wrong energy to go into mother ayahuasca with. But I do think, and he said some people shouldn’t do it. Some people who have had psycho psycho psychoactive problems in the past and things.

52:06 Maybe he’s right. But I see a lot of people benefiting from it. I mean, just the diet alone and the way that it teaches you about your body. And like, I’m stuck to the diet. You know, I haven’t had caffeine or sugar or alcohol since.

52:18 And I just like being on this diet and like something that’s simple and the way it gives you perspective and everything. Yes, I think everyone could benefit from it. And I think just like the Maha Rishas said, when it comes to transcendental meditation, he’s had something, I forgot the term, but he said if 1% of the population did transcendental meditation, it would grow on itself because so much positive energy would be feeding around other people that the whole population would be pulled along.

52:41 Do you think I ask is at that point, though, it’s growing. It’s a buzzword. It is growing. But it’s illegal in the UK and the US. And I think that’s ridiculous.

52:49 You know what that says to me? What? It says a lot about government policy. And I’ve said it before that governments don’t always have our best interest at heart. I mean, why would that be illegal?

52:59 Why would that think that amazing experience we just had that taught us so much about other people, about empathy, about ourselves, and that I think has definitely made us better human beings. It’s definitely made me a better human being. Why is that illegal? Just because it has that psychoactive ingredient that’s called DMT. That’s on the UN list.

53:17 And it’s a hallucinogen, which is considered a bad recreational type thing. Dude, what the fuck gives anyone the right to tell me what I can? As Graham Hancock said, if we don’t have sovereignty over our own bodies, then what do we have in this world? And I completely agree with that. And the other thing is, is it in one thing that our shaman said is that the diet is so important on ayahuasca.

53:36 We can’t stress it. Nick and I, I think got lucky, even though we were feeling nauseous. But she said she’s had people that go in on the wrong diet and they are throwing up all night and she can’t heal them. She’s like, I can’t get in there to do any healing because they’re throwing up the whole night. So, you know, you can’t take this as a weekend.

53:52 You have to prepare at least a week in advance with diet and this will stick with you for a while. I mean, I still have the ayahuasca feeling with me now. Something I learned as well is that my body’s actually quite clean. I think it was a combination of the diet and the fact that I rarely tried to look after my health. And it was one of the, a lot of the stuff might have been a bit chastising, but it was one of the, what’s the word I’m looking for?

54:21 The pats on the back for my ayahuasca was, it said to me, your body is clean. Okay. And I was happy to hear that. But you know what, one thing I definitely understand, I don’t know if you feel the same way. I’d love to hear your opinion.

54:33 One thing I definitely understand is that I have, with that, that experience, I did not scratch the surface of the potential of that medicine. Yeah. Not even close. Yeah. I know what you mean.

54:43 You know, I know when you kept thinking you should have drank twice and at one point I felt like I should have drank twice. Although I must say at hour three, going back into that rabbit hole, I was like, you should go. But I was like, man, and I must say, I think that experience and the 24 hours and 48 hours after processing it is just as important as that night that we had there because you’re trying to figure out what it meant and you’re just adapting it.

55:04 So I don’t know how much more we could have got that night for our first time. You know, maybe we could have, maybe we couldn’t, but I see what you mean. Next time we can definitely go further. And you know, maybe next time we’ll be not so nice or maybe it will be different. They say she’s kind to the first time drinkers.

55:18 You know, I don’t know. I had a fairly pleasant thing. I didn’t have any demons. Funny enough, I didn’t, my mother didn’t come up strangely enough. I was surprised by that.

55:26 Yeah. I didn’t have a lot of negative energy. I had a lot of, Brian, can’t you see this about yourself? But I didn’t have like bad spirits or nothing was eating me inside. I mean, it was, she was telling me quite plainly things that I’m not doing right emotionally, but I didn’t get a lot of demons or spirits.

55:40 I wasn’t scared, but I was trying the whole time to be open. I was, I was watching my body language the whole time. I was trying to lay like this and breathe and just accept it and deal with it, deal with it, deal with it. It’s no way of getting around it, deal with it. But, but yeah, do you want to take a couple more questions?

55:55 Yeah, let’s hit the question. Okay. Let me just say this is a good question. Brian Ma asked us, was it an easy transition back to your regular life routine after the experience? That’s a good question.

56:06 Yeah. Can you talk about the next day and the day after? The next, the next two days, I just felt great. So just logistically, by the way, guys, at two in the morning, we asked our shaman if we could leave and take a taxi. Usually the people stay the night.

56:20 They don’t sleep and there’s no way I was going to sleep there. Your mind is racing, by the way. Yeah. So someone mentioned to me that what it’s like is the defragging of a hard drive. It’s just reordering or rewiring your brain into the most efficient manner possible.

56:34 And I don’t know about you, but I’ve noticed in the last few days, my brain works better. Oh yeah. It just works better. Like little things, like I have this chopping board in my kitchen and I always like chop stuff in a specific way with the board turned this one way. And I was about to do it.

56:53 I was cooking something and I realized, wait, if I just move it a little bit this way, it’s so much more efficient for this reason. I was like, wow. I have these little insights, these little connections all the time now. I can’t explain. Are you?

57:04 Yeah. Well, I mean, just so semantic wise, we left it too. I stayed up until six in the morning. I couldn’t sleep. I finally tried to watch some TV at like four in the morning.

57:12 All that was really hard because like the war channel came on and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I was trying to watch something really mellow but because I couldn’t sit there and think anymore on my own because I was just going crazy, dude. I was just thinking about this and about that and about this. So I slept about three hours next morning. I woke up and it was just like I was on.

57:27 I felt like limitless Bradley Cooper. I mean, everything was just great. My mind was racing and I wanted to be in nature and I walked outside and watch the doggies playing in the park. And then I wanted to go see something beautiful. So I went to the national gallery and looked at like paintings and stuff.

57:40 Like I just wanted to be out there. And you were texting me to have the pictures. I was sending you pictures like a fucking madman and I posted them on Facebook and I was just like, wow. And everything was, I could see in HD probably because the eye drops and I could smell everything. And like, I just felt great.

57:52 Alive. Really alive and vital. And I still, I think a little nauseous but still it was fine. I ate a little bit of something. I just felt great.

58:00 I did, did you do that now? Oh yeah. How was that? The most connected I’ve been on the mat for a couple of years. Really?

58:08 I was connected, man. Wow. Just felt. That was good. You know, when like this one guy, one of my sparring partners, I mean, he’s a purple belt, but he’s tough, you know, and I usually have to work.

58:19 Okay. And he literally, I was like, he couldn’t do anything. I was just, it was amazing. It was amazing. I’m going to do ayahuasca again, but you’re coming with me.

58:34 You were talking about, so Nick, the next day is like, okay, I’m doing it again. You were talking about that night doing it again. Were you on the way home or something? I think so. And I couldn’t get my head there at the time.

58:43 I was like, okay, I can’t process. But when I was explaining it to my girlfriend the other night, I was like, because I was talking about how cold I was. And I was like, next time I’m going to wear two pair of socks. She’s like, stop saying next time. And next time you’re coming with me.

58:57 So am I going to do it again? Of course I am going to do it again. That’s what I like to do. You know, am I going to do it again in June? I don’t know.

59:04 But you know, also, as you forget the pain, you know, it’s that’s the funny thing. Is it your, I was nauseous the whole time. It wasn’t comfortable. Let’s be honest, but I forgot all of that. On the next one, I want to, I want to get out, you know, I want to leave my body and I want to go to another.

59:19 Yeah, you really do. Don’t you? Okay. I don’t have any agendas. I just know that it was a good thing for me.

59:24 You know, I want to ask you this, Nick. I’m trying to play devil’s advocate here. And I, some people are listening. I’ve got family in the States listening. I’ve got people, some are religious, aren’t aren’t religious.

59:32 And they’re going to look at this. You know, my dad would probably, you know, I love my dad. And I don’t know if he’s ever taken a drug in his life. And he might look at me, you know, he’s almost 70. He’s a Caltech, you know, master’s degree, really smart guy who never messes with his brain, you know, and I don’t know if he would do something like this.

59:50 But what would you say to someone who watches us do this? And they’re like, you know, it’s just another drug, Brian, you know, it’s just like you can have a great experience on a drug. And how can you, what would you say to that, to someone that says, this is just another drug and you just want to go take this drug again? I mean, I wouldn’t say this to your dad because I have respect for him and I like him a lot. But if some random stranger or someone who didn’t know very well said that to me, I’d say to him, you’re speaking from a position of ignorance.

1:00:13 Okay, but Toto es mi familia. These, these entheogens, these plant teachers have been on this planet for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. And been used for that long as well. And been used for thousands and thousands of years. And I’m pretty much certain that most of the people who make these very narrow-minded judgments are making them out of fear.

1:00:39 You know, like it’s, they don’t want to know, they don’t want to know what’s in the dark recesses of their mind. You know, they’ve just made up the, they made the decision that drugs are bad. And I can understand that up until my mid-20s, I was under this, I had the same opinion. Drugs are bad. Because you look, because you look in the media and you see, you see crack.

1:00:57 You see even ecstasy or alcohol or marijuana and they’re all the drug addicts. The druggies look at what their lives are ruined. They don’t do anything. The potheads are lazy all day. All these stereotypes, which you know, aren’t right.

1:01:08 I guess the best way to, another way of looking at what you’ve just said is think how far removed that experience we had with ayahuasca was from someone in the projects hitting a crack pipe. Right. It’s, they’re not even, it’s kind of like saying, you shouldn’t eat because McDonald’s is bad for you. Yeah. Well, that’s really good analogy there.

1:01:33 It’s not, I will be using these things for the rest of my life. I want to know more about myself there. It’s scary sometimes. It might, it might end badly one day. I don’t know, but that’s the risk you have to take.

1:01:47 Life is risk. Yeah. If you want to know more about yourself and more about what we’re doing here, these are, these are ways. They’re not the only ways, but they are ways. I think you said it right.

1:01:56 I mean, it really is a plant teacher. And, you know, I was mentioning Hancock earlier and he talked about, you know, a religion, someone comes and tells you what you need to believe for the religion or these kinds of things. But with, with ayahuasca, you take it and the experience you have is between you and her. And I mean, we both had experiences where we took this thing and it showed us things about ourselves and we’re learning from them. And I’ve changed my life this week.

1:02:18 You know, I mean, honestly, she’s waking me up at six thirty seven in the morning, which I haven’t done for a long time, as you know, and it’s like, let’s get to work, you know, and I’m just jamming all day on things. I love doing London Rio or seeing people or getting in touch with people and out there. I just love being outside now and it’s just incredible. And, you know, I feel like I’ve been taught something different as well. Thank you, man.

1:02:38 I’ve been told that already. And I think better looking as well. I mean, you’re definitely better looking. What can I say? That’s like my mom and dad.

1:02:48 I don’t know. It could have helped a little bit, but I just think it’s amazing. I wanted to talk about it completely off topic. It’s something I think our listeners would find interesting. And one of the most the tools that I also gave me, which I think anyone can use and understand.

1:03:05 There’s two people in the jujitsu gym I used to train at and they’re both the same age. Let’s call them John and Bob. And John and Bob both have a family of the same size, you know, three kids. They both come from the same area in London and

1:03:26 Their lives are completely different. The one is super successful, healthy, happy, always has a smile on his face. The other is struggling.

1:03:39 He’s always scowling. He’s always complaining, his body’s giving him grief, loads injuries. Bad body language, I’m guessing. Bad body language. And Ayahausca was saying to me, it was showing me in this weird vision, he was saying, show me these two people and said the only difference between these people is their state of mind.

1:03:59 And it said, look at the result of these two different life paths. It’s just a state of mind. And I understand that now. That is one of the huge things I got out of this experience is that thoughts, man. I mean, meditation is ultimately trying to reach a state of no thought, right?

1:04:19 Which is impossible. No one can live their whole life in that Zen, no thought state. Especially if you’ve been indoctrinated with our modern lifestyle for long enough. But if you’re going to think, if you’re going to have thoughts racing through your mind, you might as well make them good ones. Because bad ones don’t serve you at all.

1:04:37 Yeah. That was one of the very, the things that were made very clear. Yeah. Just to expand on mine that you can take the same guy in the same house with the same family, the same job, the same things happening to them. And with one thought process, he could be one of the happiest guys in the world because he’s so blessed with these great things.

1:04:51 And then the same guy could be the most cursed guy in the world because he has all these things that are horrible about his life. I completely agree. And I will say even more than that. Sometimes it takes something like Ayahausca to switch that and show you that. And how can that be a bad thing?

1:05:05 No, it’s not a bad thing. I was telling you what I wanted from this. And I’ve been thinking about this for months. I hate to say it, but I got it. Ayahausca really flipped a switch in me.

1:05:15 And I’m waking up every day with like, wow, what a great day, man. There’s so much stuff we can do. And I wasn’t doing that, to be honest, a month or two ago. And I was dragging a little bit. You’re the guy who has everything right.

1:05:25 I told you so many times. I think we all have everything. But I mean, yeah, this wasn’t good enough. London Real wasn’t good enough. All this stuff, I completely flipped that now.

1:05:33 And I’m like, everything’s an asset now. And I almost texted this, I put it on the, I had this realization on Wednesday when I was out shopping and I was going to put it on Facebook and maybe I will. But something came to me and I thought this, I thought to say, look a little closer. What you think is a liability is actually an asset. And that’s just something I thought about.

1:05:52 I’ve had that on my mind for a long time. And I’ve realized it, and I’ve realized it in different ways. One big way recently, I’ve just realized it. It’s like something I thought was a liability is actually an asset. It’s just like, wow.

1:06:03 And so, yeah, I think everyone should consider something like this. You know, and maybe it’s a lot like Tim Ferriss that he does an ego reset every year by taking mushrooms or something. And it resets his ego and makes him a different person. And I think there’s something here about Alaska. Let me just check a couple more questions because there were some really good ones.

1:06:23 Alan Patrick said, he’d like to know whether the hallucinations were completely related to you. By this, I mean, people have some powerful hallucinations on ketamine that seem completely real or scary. What was it about ayahuasca that made you feel the experience was teaching you about yourself if this was the case? Did we talk about that? Yeah, we pretty much covered that.

1:06:41 Each one of us had an individual experience, right? Bradley Peters said, did the experience make you realize a kind of life force spiritual plane to which you have lost that connection to a level we don’t acknowledge in everyday life? I was actually going to ask you the same question phrase slightly differently.

1:06:58 As I know, you’ve always been like a scientific materialist. Would that be the correct? I’ve been scientific materialist mean, as in like everything. Am I using that word correctly? Like you only believe in what you can see?

1:07:09 Yes, I went to, you know, I have a degree from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and everything was numbers and by the books and physics. And yes, I don’t believe in much of a spiritual world. Has that changed? Yeah, I couldn’t. I’m talking about mother ayahuasca, for God’s sakes.

1:07:24 What’s wrong with me? I’m going to be expelled from my institution. Remember I told you a few shows back when you were saying your sisters on the crunchy side. And I said, I can’t wait till after ayahuasca, we’re going to welcome you to the crunchy side. Well, my sister, she wanted some payback.

1:07:38 I know. So Claire, which she changed her name, by the way, which shows she’s on the crunchy side. She probably took ayahuasca, right? I was going to actually, she lives in San Francisco. And I was going to send her a message before.

1:07:48 Does she know anyone who’s taken ayahuasca? But yeah, I mean, I’m on the bandwagon. At least I’m going closer to that. But yeah, I mean, how could you not? I was showing things here that are very real and relevant.

1:08:00 So yeah, I’m getting a little crunchier to say the least. Let me just see if there’s any other. Oh, this is a good one. Zaki asked this one. How do you think this is a good, because you might be able to answer this.

1:08:10 How do you think a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim would come out of that sort of experience thinking? Is there a chance it may solidify their beliefs or would it surely enlighten them enough to step out of the shackles of organized religion? Well, that’s an incredibly difficult question. Great question. Thank you, dude.

1:08:27 I don’t know. Zaki Soledolo. Yeah, that was a good. That was a fantastic question. I mean, I understand that everyone’s experience is going to be completely different.

1:08:36 So I think ayahuasca will give you what you need if your mind has been conditioned to only be able to accept the understanding of God through that narrow scope. I’m sure ayahuasca will make the answers fit in with that. Does that make sense? Maybe. Yeah, but I don’t know.

1:08:59 It definitely gave me some insights into organized religion. I think that the ceremony itself, we were asked to check our ego and our logical minds at the door, which is a great advice by our shaman, because you need to, especially when she’s sucking spirits at you and stuff. So I think if you’re a religious person, if you can do that and try to go in with an open mind, like I said, every individual is different. But I only think it could only strengthen that either way to make you question your religion, which can make it stronger, or it might make you realize they must be able to coexist, right?

1:09:30 I’m not so sure. Really? I’m not so sure. Interesting. That’s a good question.

1:09:34 I don’t know. But I would encourage anyone who feels strong enough with their religion to try anything, right? Well, that’s the thing. I noticed a lot of people are incredibly religious. I mean, if you really believe in your belief system so strongly, why would you be afraid of doing ayahuasca?

1:09:54 Like, if what you believe is the ultimate and only truth, test it. Take ayahuasca, see. And then you’ll be able to know from your own experience, not from someone else. Someone else has told you what you read in the book somewhere. You’ll know from your own experience.

1:10:07 Yeah. I mean, that’s the thing. I mean, she speaks directly to you. So there’s no filter. There’s no propaganda.

1:10:11 There’s no agenda, because there’s no one profiting from this, really. So that’s a great question. The last question is from Julian Bales. Great fan, by the way. I met him the other day.

1:10:21 Very cool, dude. And he said, do you feel as though you’re a different person now to before the experience? And would people who knew you before notice a fundamental change in your behavior attitude? And secondly, he says, do you think the effect will be permanent, long-term? Or is it transient and wearing off gradually?

1:10:38 First part of the question. You said you notice something about me. Do you think people will notice something about you?

1:10:46 Brian, I have a lot of work to do. Okay. I’m already noticing about you, dude. I mean, I’m already saying I don’t know. I mean, sometimes you’re much more positive this week.

1:10:56 I’m just going to say that about you. Oh, cool, man. And you just seem much more grounded and centered. But what do you think about, well, do you have any other thoughts on that?

1:11:09 To scratch the surface, man. Okay. I’ve got a thought as far as the transientness of it. I mean, let me be honest, on Tuesday, I felt like you were like, I feel like a Jedi knight. And I felt pretty Jedi-ish and pretty limitless.

1:11:20 Wednesday, I didn’t feel like that as much. I still felt grounded and good. Thursday, I mean, I’m still feeling good. I’m still on the diet. I still really like what I’m doing.

1:11:29 I’m waking up early. Things aren’t, I’m not trudging through life. You know, I’m loving to go on train and loving this. My relationships are great. Will this wear off?

1:11:38 Yeah, I think it’s only natural that it will, you know? I mean, I don’t think people do ayahuasca once and then walk away. I think people go back. I mean, people talk about doing it every six months or every year as part of like just a reminder. And I do think that’s important.

1:11:50 I think it’s just as hard as you want to keep it with you, you know, I think. But I think it’s natural to revert back to a mean that you’ve been at for me for 40 years or for 30 years of mature consciousness. Do you think it will go away? I think it’s definitely, I hope not. It feels like it’s reset the baseline.

1:12:10 I feel great, man. Okay, yeah, I agree. I mean, I don’t think it’s definitely hasn’t solved all my problems. No, my hands. But it’s given me an understanding.

1:12:19 I mean, you know, I’m writing my book. Yeah, how’s that count? It’s going great. I got off my ass and did there was one step I had to take, which is getting the book proposal done that I’ve been putting off for two years. Okay, and I did it this week.

1:12:33 That’s cool. You know, and wow, something’s changed. Yeah, I found it got me to action on a couple of things. Just like do it, which is cool, right? What was I gonna say?

1:12:45 I forgot. Anything else that we’re missing, dude? On Iowasco? Or in general, we’re probably pushing it. Well, yeah, in general, what I just say is, I think I’m gonna pop it out here.

1:12:59 Is Brian and I having a London Real party? Yes. Soon, right? The beginning of the summer? Yeah, we’re gonna do it begins from May, May or June.

1:13:05 We’re gonna have a big London Real party. And yeah, everyone is welcome. We want it to be huge. We’d love some suggestions on the venue as well. Yeah, I mean, I’m thinking East London, but anywhere is cool.

1:13:14 Just want it to be big. Yeah, some outdoor space and just have lots of fun. Yeah, that’s the first thing I was thinking this week would be great. So send us messages or put something on the Facebook. Yeah, I would love your comments.

1:13:25 I would love and maybe it’s a big ass, but if you’ve got two friends, if you can just let them know about London Real and just tell them what we’re doing and just see what they think and just try that. Yeah, because this is all viral. I don’t think people aren’t gonna hear about it unless it’s from other people. So if you can have two friends, just send them a quick Facebook message and say check these guys out if they like it cool. And if not, that’s cool too.

1:13:44 Yeah, this has been a great feedback from this episode. The ayahuasca has been really interesting for people. I think they’re going to love this. And I just want to say thanks for the support. You know, we’ll get messages that will say, we already love the show and what you’re doing.

1:13:56 Sometimes it’s difficult. We put so much work into this, man. We put so much work into this and we don’t get paid. No, and we demand a lot of ourselves. Like we expect it always to be, we want it to be bigger.

1:14:06 So yeah, all that support is huge. And just any message you leave on the London Real Facebook page is big. Comments on YouTube likes all that stuff. It’s great. And I just had a couple notes here.

1:14:16 Yeah, I said it earlier, I just really question the legality of this drug. I think it needs to be legal. I think more people need to try it. I know in the US, you have to leave the country to even try it. And in the UK, I mean, I don’t know, technically might have even had to break a minor law to do it.

1:14:30 And I think it’s just ridiculous. So just think about that next time you vote. I might start voting Green Party or something. But you’ve got to wonder about something like that. So I just want to say that.

1:14:43 Big thank you to Mama Ayah. Yeah, big thank you to Mama Ayahausca. Huge shout out to our shaman. She’s going to be watching this. So I can only say just many, many thanks from the bottom of our heart.

1:14:53 It could have been so much worse if we didn’t have her. I think it could have made her break the experience. It did. Yeah, she’s amazing. She’s amazing, tremendous.

1:15:01 And can’t say enough about her. And I want to thank you, dude. I’m proud of you, man. Thank you, man. And just big thanks to you, man.

1:15:08 I would have never done this without you. And yeah, thanks, dude. Same. Cool. Are we done?

1:15:14 Well, until next time, it’s about the journey.