Full transcript: Rory MacDonald on London Real
3:18 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Rory MacDonald, aka the Red King, who is the top-ranked Canadian mixed martial artist signed with Bellator MMA. You fought 13 times in the UFC with wins over Nate Diaz, B.J. Penn, and the current 170-pound champion Tyron Woodley.
4:28 On May 19th in London, you will take on the British fighter Paul Daly at Bellator 179. Rory, welcome to London Real.
4:35 Rory MacDonald: Thanks for having me.
4:36 Brian Rose: Welcome to London, too. Your first time here, right?
4:39 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
4:39 Brian Rose: Now, you’re part of the Commonwealth, right? Coming from Canada.
4:44 Rory MacDonald: That’s right.
4:45 Brian Rose: But what’s it like to be here?
4:47 Rory MacDonald: I’m super excited, you know, and the fact that I’m reinventing a card in London, like, it’s kind of surreal a little bit, you know? I wanted to fight here a year ago, but it didn’t work out. But, you know, I never would have thought I could be in a position where I could go internationally somewhere, especially in a major city like London, and host an event. So it’s like one of those epic moments in my career, you know?
5:15 Brian Rose: Okay, so this is almost bigger than if you were headlining an event in, say, California or something like that.
5:22 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I would say so, yeah, for sure. Just because it’s a major international city, right? Yeah, overseas. I’ve never really done that, you know? I’ve pretty much strictly been in North America my whole career.
5:32 Brian Rose: Right. What about the British fans? I mean, they’re different a little bit, I think, than the Americans ones. Do you have a different vibe here, press conference? I don’t know.
5:41 Rory MacDonald: I mean, the press conference is pretty quiet. I didn’t see any fans or anything, so I guess my first experience will be May 19th. Yeah.
5:49 Brian Rose: Yeah, they’re pretty hardcore over here, you know?
5:52 Rory MacDonald: I would imagine so, yeah.
5:53 Brian Rose: Yeah, and I think that’s why the UFC moved over here, and obviously Bellator is doing a bunch of events here. So, yeah, they’re serious about their MMA, and obviously Ireland now as well with kind of the McGregor phenomenon, so. Yeah. Paul Daly has kind of been there and done that, and like a couple years ago in Britain, you know, besides maybe B-Sping, he was probably one of the guys really known at the top of his game. Yeah.
6:15 Some crazy knockouts, a lot of striking power and stuff. How does it feel going up against him? How was it like to meet him? All that stuff.
6:22 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I’m really excited for the fight.
6:24 I mean, you know, I’ve been watching Paul since probably before I even started fighting. Really? So, yeah, you know, I’ve seen him since forever, it seems like. So, the fact that I’m actually getting to step in there with him, and, you know, just everything that’s been going on lately, I think it’s just a perfect matchup for me at the moment, you know? A win over him puts me in the title spot, and, you know, it’s just a good first fight for me and Bellator, for sure.
6:53 Brian Rose: He said he almost was a bit starstruck with you. Yeah. What’s that like when, you know, two fighters then have to fight? Who, of course, will fight, but when you meet him for the first time, is that kind of strange?
7:06 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, I definitely didn’t expect him to say something like that.
7:10 I don’t know, I didn’t really get starstruck by him. I definitely know who he was and watched his fights for many years, but, you know, it’s casual. I mean, I was hoping he would have some meaner things to say about me, get some interest going, but… That could change. Yeah, hopefully.
7:26 Brian Rose: That could change. Him and MVP were kind of buddies a year ago, and now they’re going after each other, so we’ve got three months left. What do you expect in that fight? I mean, he likes to stand up. You don’t mind either.
7:39 You’ve had entire fights standing up, even though, you know, you’ve got strong ground and everything. What do you expect?
7:47 Rory MacDonald: You know what? It’s going to be a hardcore fight, I think. Paul’s an athletic guy, and he knows how to keep the fight on his feet, you know?
7:57 He likes to be there, so I want to mix it up with him and make him worried about me taking him down, and I think that’s going to open up a lot of doors for me.
8:06 Brian Rose: Nice. You said on the Joe Rogan experience, a famous quote, you said, I don’t have a plan, and that was just kind of your way of talking about life, as in, like, you know, do this, you kind of trained how your body felt, that kind of thing. I was wondering if you could explain kind of what you meant by that.
8:24 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, I pretty much just wing it. You know, I take all the experiences I have over the years and, you know, all the knowledge I’ve gained over the years, and I just kind of, I go with the flow, I guess. And I guess that you’re able to do that when you feel confident in all aspects of the mixed martial arts game. Like, I pretty much, I work everything, you know, from wrestling stand up to submission grappling. So I feel comfortable everywhere.
8:52 So when the fight’s on, it’s the same thing. I’ll take it wherever it may go, and I’m happy to take it there, against anyone.
8:59 Brian Rose: It’s hard for people to believe that, you know, you can be at the top of your game like that and then not have every detail like meticulously planned, because I’d say a lot of fighters do, right?
9:10 Rory MacDonald: I mean, I’ve done that in the past. I mean, I think it showed in my last fight.
9:15 I was almost overthinking things, you know, I was out there trying to be a point fighter, fighting Steven Thompson, who’s the karate guy. I’m trying to do karate out there with him. So I think just being myself and just let things flow naturally and, you know, express myself in the cage who I truly am, that’s where I’m going to have my success.
9:38 Brian Rose: Right. So be yourself.
9:39 And you said you want to get back to just being Rory out there.
9:43 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, not overthinking things, just letting it happen. Right.
9:48 Brian Rose: You’re a big believer in training and skills. That beats anything, right? Beats heart, beats size, beats anything.
9:56 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I’d say so. I mean, I guess it’s just my experience.
10:00 You know, I came into martial arts not knowing how to fight at all, from zero to like fighting for the UFC title. So I had to, you know, I put all my energy into learning techniques and being able to apply it in combat situations. So for me, learning technique is 100% the most important thing.
10:24 Brian Rose: And you started as kind of a scrawny kid and you started with jujitsu.
10:30 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
10:30 Brian Rose: Can you tell us what that was like?
10:32 Rory MacDonald: Oh, actually I started with everything. It was a mixed martial arts gym. Of course. My first day was I think it was like jujitsu and then a Muay Thai class afterwards.
10:41 But yeah, I know I loved it. I fell in love with it right away.
10:44 Brian Rose: And at the time you were one of the few UFC fighters that came in who trained an MMA from the beginning and you didn’t have the wrestling background that you jujitsu.
10:54 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, that was kind of the angle UFC had pitched me on, you know. I’d kind of come in right around when people were starting to talk about that, you know, where the young guys were going to be coming in with just a mixed martial arts background rather than a traditional background in one of the disciplines and maybe picked up the odd bit here and there.
11:13 So yeah, I guess I’m one of those original guys, you know, the new school guys.
11:19 Brian Rose: Okay. But you have a bit of an old school attitude. Yeah. How is that?
11:24 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean I started fighting pro when I was 16 years old. So I got into this when the sport wasn’t popular and didn’t look like it was really going anywhere. I remember people telling me like, why are you doing this? Like, you’re not going to make any money. You’re not going to do anything.
11:41 At the time, I had hoped MMA would get to where it is now. You know, I was confident it would, but even then it wasn’t about that for me. It was a passion of mine. And when you’re passionate about something, you love it, you just want to do it because it makes you happy.
11:58 Brian Rose: Yeah, you said once you don’t want to be a billionaire or that money is not the most important thing.
12:04 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, it definitely hasn’t been in my career. Now I have a daughter, so it’s becoming more of an issue. I’m definitely focused on building my wealth now. It’s more for her sake. I don’t need much.
12:15 Brian Rose: Okay, but the fighting wasn’t about the money. It was about a place to prove your skill.
12:20 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, for the longest time. Now it’s becoming, you know, I’ve got to make some money at this. There’s money to be made.
12:26 People are making money, so, you know, I don’t want people making all the money off my back and hard work. You know, I need my fair share too.
12:34 Brian Rose: Were you also attracted to the fact that it’s almost a performance out there as well? Like you go, there’s the crowd, there’s anticipation, they watch what you can do. Was that always something that interested you?
12:47 Rory MacDonald: Not so much, you know, the personality of it. Like I think people kind of, you know, I’m pretty like mellow. And like monotone, you know, they got me as like the serial killer.
13:00 Brian Rose: You had that name for a while.
13:02 Rory MacDonald: So it’s never been an issue for me.
13:05 Like it’s never been a focus to build a character or anything like that. I’m just trying to be myself, focus on fighting and just smashing guys. That’s just what I like to do and that’s my focus.
13:17 Brian Rose: I think at the press conference you were like, I’ll pretty much fight anybody here.
13:22 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
13:22 Brian Rose: And that’s what I’m saying, you’re a bit of an old school guy as far as you take your skills on even against Bobby Lashley, the heavyweight.
13:30 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I haven’t really had a chance to do that in my career, but, you know, I’m excited. I’m in a position with great people in Bellator that are going to give me these opportunities. You know, they have a similar outlook with me.
13:43 Like they’re willing to put me against, you know, big name guys that may not be in my weight class. Whereas, you know, when I was with UFC, if I would have asked for that, they would have laughed at me. So, you know, I’m in a good position with them.
13:58 Brian Rose: What makes you feel like you want to take on, you know, a light heavyweight or a heavyweight?
14:03 Rory MacDonald: It’s fun.
14:04 Brian Rose: Okay. You want to test abilities, don’t you?
14:08 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, yeah. I don’t know. The old school UFCs were very interesting to me, you know.
14:15 Just all walks of life, you know. Royce Gracie being a small guy fighting heavyweights and no time limits. I always liked that raw outlook on martial arts.
14:24 Brian Rose: Yeah, you don’t like a lot of the new rules, right? Five minute time limits, no knees to the grounded opponent.
14:30 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, the whole scoring system, everything. Everything’s kind of, it screws it up a little bit. It takes some of the pureness of fighting away, I guess.
14:42 Brian Rose: If it was up to you, what would it look like?
14:46 Rory MacDonald: One round, maybe, you know, like 110 or 210 minute rounds or 120 minute round or something like that.
14:54 Or at least scoring the fight as a whole, rather than per round basis. Because sometimes I’m watching fights and I’m thinking, that guy won a fight, like this guy won the fight, but on my scorecards, this guy won. Yeah. So it’s kind of weird like that. And a couple rules I would change to, like the knees on the ground to the head, the kicks to the head on the ground.
15:21 Brian Rose: So you would allow that?
15:23 Rory MacDonald: A lot of the elbows that are not headbutts are like, they have to be in it. Like, there was some like crazy fights by Mark Coleman back in the day, like he dominated. So the fact that headbutts aren’t allowed is like, that’s a really crappy thing.
15:38 Brian Rose: Have you ever trained headbutts with like some headgear on?
15:42 Rory MacDonald: No.
15:42 Brian Rose: Craftman situation?
15:44 Rory MacDonald: No, I haven’t. I don’t know how well that would go over.
15:48 Brian Rose: So realistically, that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
15:53 Rory MacDonald: It’s never going to happen. Because we have to sell this fort to the media. Yeah, it’s become like a mainstream sport. So it’s got to be somewhat clean cut as brutal as it is.
16:04 Brian Rose: So you’re a purist.
16:05 You kind of want to go back to that gladiator.
16:08 Rory MacDonald: I like the really brutal stuff. So the old school pride days, that kind of stuff.
16:13 Brian Rose: Okay. Van der Ley Silva, soccer kicks to the head.
16:16 Yeah, that’s good. And you’re up for fighting Van der Ley Silva as well, right?
16:20 Rory MacDonald: Absolutely. Yeah, that’s pretty exciting. Yeah.
16:22 Brian Rose: That could be a good one. Could you walk us through the last year? Because you’ve had a pretty interesting year from Warner Boy Thompson to like now headlining a card in London. And I just wonder if you could tell us, you know, what have been the ups, downs, and just thought process that brought you here.
16:40 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, even before the Thompson had got set, you know, I knew I was going to test free agency.
16:46 So I knew I would be talking with Bellator. You know, I was interested to see where that would go.
16:53 Brian Rose: What was that?
16:55 Rory MacDonald: You know, financial. You know, after the title fight with Robbie, just, you know, getting all the way there, not winning the fight, just still like, you know, seeing my pay and what the offer was after that, it just kind of made me think like, man, I’m not at this rate.
17:15 I’m just going to be broke at the end of my career. Right. So people are making a lot of money off my fights. It’s just not, doesn’t add up.
17:23 Brian Rose: And that Robbie Lowther fight was like called Fight of the Year by a lot of people.
17:28 You’re fighting for the title, like you said. And so, and, you know, it was a loss, but it was like an incredible fight. But you’re saying after that, the way they showed you how much you were valued, you were like, I’m going to look around.
17:41 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. Yeah, especially with what I was offered originally, it was kind of just like, really? Okay, that’s what I’m worth.
17:47 Okay. And so I kind of lit a fire under my ass, I guess, to get serious about this.
17:52 Brian Rose: Okay. And when you look back on that Lowther fight, it’s like 14 months ago. Do you have any thoughts on it?
17:59 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, I’ve come a long way since then. I wish I would have fought a little differently, but I was, you know, I was in the heat of the moment and, you know, I was just, I was in there going for the kill, you know? Yeah.
18:12 Brian Rose: So you’ve broken your nose in the first round, right?
18:16 Rory MacDonald: Second.
18:16 Brian Rose: Second, okay. And you were probably breathing in lots of blood and…
18:20 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, that was pretty much all I was breathing in every breath I would take. It’s just like blood.
18:25 Brian Rose: So it killed your cardio, hard to get oxygen.
18:27 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, no breathing through the nose. It was just, it was suffocating for sure. But I was on such a high adrenaline that I was able to push through a lot, especially when I had them hurt in the third and fourth. But after that, it just like crashed big time.
18:44 Brian Rose: Oh, in the fifth round, it was a crash.
18:46 Rory MacDonald: Fourth, I think it was like midway through the fourth, I was just like hitting a wall. I was just hanging on from that point on.
18:55 Brian Rose: Is that adrenaline is over then, or is it just lack of oxygen, you think?
18:59 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, just fatigue. You know, the adrenaline going down, once you start fatiguing, you know, I’m feeling all those shots on you, and then that slow disbelief in yourself once you’re starting to feel like you’re getting your ass kicked.
19:15 The anxiety kicks in and starts turning the wheels.
19:18 Brian Rose: Okay. For people that have never and probably will never be in a situation where, you know, it’s between the third and fourth round, and you’re on the stool, and you’re looking across at Robbie Lawler and for us saying things to your ear, like, can you describe what is that like?
19:34 Rory MacDonald: No, I don’t hear anything at that point. Those hard fights, you know, that I have, it’s just like, I’m like, my eyes are like, like, there’s nothing going on there.
19:43 I’m just like trying to breathe at that point.
19:47 Brian Rose: Okay. Yeah. And are you thinking much?
19:50 Rory MacDonald: No.
19:50 Just like, I’m in like kill or be killed moment, you know?
19:55 Brian Rose: Yeah. Do you remember the fight afterwards?
19:59 Rory MacDonald: Oh, yeah. Okay.
20:00 For sure. I never, I didn’t even really get rocked in that fight as far as punches. Okay. It was just so much damage to my nose and the breathing and, you know, facial damage. Okay.
20:11 Brian Rose: I saw a picture of you and Robbie in the hospital late later.
20:14 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
20:15 Brian Rose: Did you talk to him afterwards?
20:17 Rory MacDonald: No, I just say, you know, how you feeling and good fight and this and that. Robbie’s not a big talker either, so.
20:23 Brian Rose: Probably less so than you.
20:24 Rory MacDonald: I would say so, yeah.
20:26 Brian Rose: That must be wild to fight someone like Robbie, who’s, his career’s transformed. Being super young in the UFC, I guess a bit like you, right? First fight in his teens, probably there.
20:35 Okay. And then it really just like matured so much, you know? Yeah, yeah. You definitely had a roller coaster career, for sure. Yeah.
20:42 So that fight happens. The pay offer, you’re like, I’m going to start looking. Yeah. Okay. And not many people have done free agency at that point, right?
20:50 From UFC.
20:51 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, a few. I think, yeah, Benson, Matt, and a few other guys. Yeah. Phil Davis.
20:57 Brian Rose: Okay. After that Robbie fight, the nose healing, all that stuff, did that take time?
21:05 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, I think I fought Robbie in July, and then I fought again in June, against Thompson. The mistake with that was, I took that much time off, but during it, I was sparring and breaking my nose in the gym. It was stupid.
21:26 Stupid. If I was going to take that much time off, I might as well just took the time to heal, but I couldn’t hold myself back. So I did the Thompson fight, and then I was like, okay, take this time serious to actually heal.
21:41 Brian Rose: Okay. And you broke the Thompson fight?
21:44 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
21:44 Brian Rose: Okay. But actually, straightened it. Straightened it out? A lot more, anyway.
21:49 Looks pretty good.
21:50 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, it’s not bad.
21:51 Brian Rose: Okay. So then you’re like, I’m going to let this thing heal?
21:54 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
21:54 Brian Rose: Okay. And now it’s pretty good, and then you’re going to fight, so…
21:58 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, no, I’m feeling real confident. I’ve been testing it the last month, and everything feels good. Okay.
22:04 I don’t think it’s going to get much stronger than what it is.
22:07 Brian Rose: Leaving the UFC, was that difficult decision? Was it hard? Did it feel good? What was that all about?
22:13 Rory MacDonald: I was a bit nervous, but I was just so motivated, like I was saying, after that fire under my ass, I need to get what I deserve. And just the fact that I see Bellator doing big things in the future, and they got good people. They know what they’re doing, so I’m very confident where Bellator’s going, and they have a lot of belief in me. And like I was saying, they’re giving me the right opportunities, so it’s a good fit.
22:37 Brian Rose: I had King Mola Wallen here about a week ago, and he was trying to explain to me the difference between Scott Coker and Dana White.
22:45 And this is the analogy he gave me. He said, do you remember back in the 90s, there was like an East Coast, West Coast rap going on? And then the West Coast, you had Death Row and Shug Night with Snoop Dogg and Dr. Dre. And you’d see the videos, but you’d see Dr. Dre and Snoop in the front of the video, and Shug Night might be in the back.
23:03 But then he said on the East Coast, you had Puff Daddy and Notorious B.I.G. And he said there, P. Diddy was always in front of everybody in front of the camera. And so he says that Dana White is the P. Diddy of MMA, as in he’s more of the star than the fighters.
23:16 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, yeah.
23:17 Brian Rose: Is that true?
23:18 Rory MacDonald: Absolutely. For example, you go to any UFC event, a fighter will walk through. A few people will come by, hey, you can have a picture and sign this.
23:31 Dana White walks through his security. Literally everyone gets out from their seats like, it’s just like a whole crowd. So he’s made himself into a star just by talking.
23:45 Brian Rose: It’s bizarre. I had no idea it was that magnitude.
23:49 Yeah, yeah. He’s definitely very popular. Do they need to change their game when it comes to how they treat their fighters?
23:58 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, definitely needs to be more respected. I think back in the days from what I heard from guys, it was a different thing.
24:07 Dana would come in super respectful and shake your hand, thank you for fighting and give your money or whatever. It was just a different attitude from what I heard from the old school guys. Once it started getting popular, I think the egos got pretty big and the importance of respecting fighters. Our value just started going in the dumps a little bit because we were just another body, another guy to fill the spot. How little can we pay them to just get the fights?
24:41 Brian Rose: I think that’s more of an attitude.
24:44 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, pretty much. It’s business. Everyone’s got to negotiate their contracts. Fortunately for them, they had a monopoly, so they were in a position to have some pretty stingy offers and guys had to take it.
25:04 They also brought the sport up to where it is. It’s kind of a catch-22 there.
25:09 Brian Rose: Yeah, and when they were sold, what were your thoughts on that?
25:13 Rory MacDonald: I thought it was a great time to sell for them. I think they had a great move.
25:18 As far as the guys that bought them, I think they’re in a tough position. We’ll see how they do. I don’t know how they’re going to make it work, but we’ll see.
25:27 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s going to be interesting. Yeah, I don’t know if any of them have ever been in the fight business before.
25:34 Rory MacDonald: I don’t know the owners too well, their background, but I think they’re like Hollywood guys. It’ll be interesting. It doesn’t look good so far, though, the way they approach their going. The fact that they let me go, and a lot of other guys are dropping off, it just doesn’t seem like… I don’t know if they get it.
25:57 Brian Rose: So you’re in Bellator now, a different vibe coming in. Scott Cooker, all the guys always say he’s kind of like the martial artist, and he treats everybody like that. And he’s always the quiet guy at the fights, behind-the-scenes guy. What’s that been like?
26:10 Rory MacDonald: Super cool.
26:11 It’s hard to talk to him because he’s quiet, and he’s busy too. But he’s always super respectful and happy, and he’s mellow. He seems just like another guy. It’s been a pleasure to work with him.
26:26 Brian Rose: If he had made you a call and said, come fight Fedor in California on Saturday last week, would you have done it?
26:34 Rory MacDonald: Probably not. But after this fight, yeah, I would have. I had to take this next month off, do a training camp, and once we kicked that off, then we could start taking whatever comes.
26:50 Brian Rose: Fair enough. You didn’t want to leave UFC with a loss on your record or with two losses, and that’s something that you felt bad about, and you want to show the world that’s not you.
27:05 Is that right?
27:06 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, it’s more of my last fight. Losses come in this sport. It’s just a part of it. You can’t expect to go on to feed in this career, especially if you’re in for the long haul like I am.
27:21 But it’s more of my performance in my last fight. It wasn’t me. So the fact that I’ve had to take so much time off and think about such a shitty performance, it just burns my ass a little bit.
27:37 Brian Rose: Your heart on yourself.
27:39 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, for sure.
27:40 Brian Rose: Are you the worst critic?
27:42 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I think so. Absolutely. I’m trying to be pretty honest with myself about it. Sometimes it’s hard to stay focused on just doing you.
27:53 There’s so much information out there that you can get carried away and end up going down the wrong road. But that loss brought me back on track where I need to be, I think.
28:03 Brian Rose: You had a policy that you didn’t watch video on fighters and you just really thought about yourself and didn’t study fighters. Is that something you still do? Or are you still looking at what they do?
28:15 Rory MacDonald: I’d never say that. I wouldn’t. It’s not like I don’t believe in watching it. I’ll throw on a fight of Paul’s here and there, but I won’t sit there for hours and days and days looking at footage. I’ll just watch the fight and be like, oh, okay.
28:31 But when it comes down to it, I do what I do and he does what he does. I’ve been around. When I get into a fight, I’ve got to see what you’re doing in front of me. I don’t want to have something predetermined in my mind. That’s what I did wrong against Stephen, too.
28:49 Just over-analyzing his strengths and wanting to adjust to that. I think that’s why the fight went the way it did.
29:02 Brian Rose: Is fighting 90% mental?
29:04 Rory MacDonald: I guess. It’s pretty physical, too.
29:08 Brian Rose: I just had fighters say that before. The mental game is everything. I guess it’s not everything. I guess the mindset is key.
29:18 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, absolutely.
29:19 They go together perfectly. You can’t have one without the other. If you’re going to make a long, successful career with this, you’ve got to be mentally strong.
29:29 Brian Rose: What’s it like that week before a fight? Are you doing certain things?
29:34 Are you shutting down certain communication lines so you can be on your own? Now you have a family. Do you like to have them around you or not too close? What’s the preparation like?
29:44 Rory MacDonald: In the past, I’m focusing on just being in the now.
29:47 I have something to do. I’m cutting weight and I’m focused on that. That’s pretty much what fight week is about. Just getting my weight down, doing the PR that I have to do, and just getting the rest at night. Chilling out.
30:03 Fight week is pretty much like in my own bubble, doing my thing.
30:09 Brian Rose: Fight night? Is that waiting a hard thing? Waiting for the fight?
30:16 Rory MacDonald: Not really.
30:17 It has been in the past, obviously, but with the more experience now, it’s not an issue. When it’s time, it’s time. I’ve learned how to be patient. I’m pretty chill. I don’t get too nervous before.
30:32 Brian Rose: I think Donald Cerrone said that even now, right when he’s walking into the cage, he’s saying to himself, what the fuck am I doing? That kind of a weird nerves thing that happened. Yeah.
30:45 Rory MacDonald: I was on the same card as in my last fight. I seen him in the morning or afternoon in the lobby and he came up to me and he’s like, you nervous, man?
30:55 He was kind of like he had some anxiety going on. I was like, not really. This is what I do. For sure, I thought he would kind of be like that too because he fights so often, but everybody handles that situation different. Yeah.
31:10 Brian Rose: So you’re mentally calm going there.
31:13 Rory MacDonald: Pretty much. Obviously, I do have nerves. It’s a combat situation, but I don’t get freaked out about it. I know what it’s about being in a fight, so I’m not too worried.
31:28 I know the worst outcome that could happen. It doesn’t stress me out to the point where I need to start getting anxious about it.
31:36 Brian Rose: Which is quite a contrast to your mentor, George St. Pierre, who used to just openly say he would get scared the week before a fight.
31:45 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I think he’s a lot like cowboy.
31:47 Just a lot of anxiety and nerves.
31:49 Brian Rose: Okay. For that, for him, it raised his game, right?
31:53 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. When you’re in the moment too, I think it just comes down to fight or flight.
31:58 When you’re a fighter, it’s always going to be fight. That’s George.
32:03 Brian Rose: What was it like as a young man to move from a very small town in Canada, right? Originally?
32:09 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I was born in a very small town.
32:12 Brian Rose: Okay. To then go ahead and move to Montreal, to go to TriStar, to work with George St. Pierre Ross and all those people. What was it like? Do you remember the first time you met GSP?
32:23 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, a lot of learning experiences, for sure. Going to a big city from where I came, for sure. It’s definitely changed me over the years, just being a city guy now, for sure. The first time I met George, it was just in the gym and stuff. He was very welcoming with open arms.
32:41 After we trained for the first time, he even brought me out to Montreal to work because he thought I had a lot of potential and he helped me out a lot.
32:49 Brian Rose: So he was a big fan from the beginning?
32:51 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, well, I don’t know about fan, but he was a big supporter, that’s for sure, and he helped me a ton.
32:57 Brian Rose: How old were you?
32:58 Rory MacDonald: He didn’t have to, because he was a UFC champ, and I was like, what was I, 18 or something?
33:03 I don’t even know if… Oh yeah, I was signed to the UFC at that point. But yeah, it was bizarre.
33:10 Brian Rose: And you signed the UFC at 18?
33:13 Rory MacDonald: 19, yeah, I would have been 19.
33:15 Brian Rose: Was that like growing up in the UFC?
33:17 Rory MacDonald: Or 20, maybe, I’m not even sure.
33:19 Brian Rose: Is that strange, growing up, or is it just so normal for you right now?
33:24 Rory MacDonald: It was always my goal when I was 14, when I started going in. I kind of knew that this was where I was going, and my goal was to be in there pretty young.
33:34 I was hoping to be in there before I was in my 20s. Okay.
33:37 Brian Rose: You know, people always ask me, like, how do I find a mentor? People are always asking me that, because we have a lot of people on the show that people kind of look up to, and I just wanted to have a mentor like GSP. I mean, it changed your life, really.
33:50 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. Before that, though, I had a good role model in my coach, David Lee, back home. Before that, I wasn’t doing anything good in my life. I was a little shithead. Not bad.
34:05 Not that bad. But I was done.
34:07 Brian Rose: If you hadn’t have taken that first martial arts class, what would your story McDonald be doing today?
34:14 Rory MacDonald: I don’t know. That was the shit.
34:16 That was just a little shit. But I don’t know. Probably nothing good. Okay. But yeah, starting martial arts and finding that MMA school at Tashido, I had a lot of grown men doing the sport and looking up to them.
34:35 My coach, Dave, was always very helpful with me as a young guy. He was probably the biggest mentor for me in the early going. Okay. And then when I had tried to go over to TriStar, obviously there was tons of guys there. George, Dennis Kang, David Alwazo.
34:56 There was a ton of guys that would be considered old school guys now. But back then, those dudes were at the top.
35:04 Brian Rose: What did you learn from GSP? If you had to think of the three big things you learned from him, just watching him and being around him for those years, what would they be?
35:16 Rory MacDonald: Hard work.
35:17 He’s definitely the hardest worker I know. Very disciplined guy. And yeah, that’s definitely what I took a look from George. He’s always working this guy no matter what. Just every hour if it’s spare to be thinking about something.
35:35 Yeah, I mean, it’s not like he’s working every hour, but he’s training smart, but he’s putting in the hard work all the time.
35:45 Brian Rose: And you watched him be the champion in the division for years and years. What’s that like to be the champion all the time and have everybody gunning for you?
35:58 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I got to see a lot of that for a few years, watching George having to deal with even me. When anyone knew it would spar him, it was like their chance to shine against the champ.
36:12 That’s just the position you’re in when you’re in that spot.
36:15 Brian Rose: And every time you went to the bottom, remember George saying that right when the belt gets wrapped around his waist, something he’s been self-admittedly obsessing about for 12 weeks or 16 weeks or however long, then sometimes they’ll even bring your contender into the cage at that point. And George would be like, and now I start thinking about the next fight literally 30 seconds later. Is that just madness to try to be the champion and try to do that, or is that what it’s all about?
36:42 Rory MacDonald: Well, to be a champion like he was, like a guy that was a staple champion for, I don’t know, he had to be one of the longest running champions. Six years or something crazy. Yeah, it was insane. So to be able to do that, that’s legendary. To be able to even defend the belt like three times is crazy just because of how competitive the sport is.
37:05 And just the toss-up of fighting, it’s MMA fighting. One bad night, one bad move even on a good night could end your title reign.
37:17 Brian Rose: Were you surprised to see him retire?
37:20 Rory MacDonald: No, no, he’d talked about it for a while. It took a while actually from when he was first talking about it to me.
37:30 Brian Rose: Do you think because he would take everything so seriously and meticulously in that anxiety before fights, do you think at some point if you do that for five years in a row, at some point you’re going to need to take a break mentally?
37:45 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean he puts a lot of pressure on himself when a fight gets announced. And when you’re a champion, everything’s like, there’s a magnifying glass on you by like a hundred. You know what I mean? Rather than just fighting on the undercard, the pressure is different, the situation is different.
38:05 So fighting title fights for ten years, it takes its toll. And for him too, he’s obsessive. He’s got the OCD thing going on, so absolutely he deserved a break. Yeah, he’s coming back. Yeah.
38:20 Brian Rose: Do you see him at the TriStar every now and then?
38:23 Rory MacDonald: All the time.
38:24 Brian Rose: All the time, okay.
38:25 Rory MacDonald: Well, he travels a ton. So he’s just, yeah, he’s always working wherever he is.
38:29 Brian Rose: Okay. He’s coming back. We don’t know who he’s fighting yet, correct?
38:33 Rory MacDonald: No, I don’t think so. Okay.
38:35 I think the rumor is Biz Bing or McGregor, but I mean, I don’t know. So he could go up or down and wait for that. I’d like to see Biz Bing and him get in there. I don’t think McGregor’s fighting UFC any time soon.
38:45 Brian Rose: Is he taking a break?
38:46 It looks like he’s going for boxing. Is that what’s going on?
38:49 Rory MacDonald: That’s what they’re talking about.
38:51 Brian Rose: Okay. I still can’t tell, so I do want to ask you about him.
38:54 But with GSP, how do you feel about him coming back?
38:57 Rory MacDonald: Good. I mean, I remember when you were talking about it before you had retired, I told him, just look at Mayweather, you know. You’re in a similar spot where you’ve been at the top for so long, people know who you are, you’re a stable guy. You could take the time off you need and come back and make more money than you ever did in your career, just because of the excitement behind it.
39:22 And I think that’s what ended up happening. I think it’s a good thing. It’s a positive thing. He got to chill, relax, take some time for himself.
39:33 Brian Rose: He took three years?
39:34 Rory MacDonald: Probably. I think he was so set up financially that he still made great money on the sponsors and all that in the meantime.
39:42 Brian Rose: Absolutely. He made a great business around GSP, right? I think one of the first, probably biggest, earliest businesses of a single MMA fighter was GSP.
39:51 You mentioned McGregor. You did a media tour with him on UFC 189. Were you behind the scenes when he was going around the world taunting Aldo?
40:02 Rory MacDonald: Not all of it. I did the very end of it in North America.
40:06 He went to South America, all through California, then New York, and then Europe. So I pretty much just did New York and Toronto with him. What did you think of that? Obviously, he hadn’t won the belt then. Still, people weren’t quite sure what he was going to do, but he was looking pretty good.
40:27 Brian Rose: What did you think of all that madness? Obviously, very different than your style. What did you make of it?
40:33 Rory MacDonald: Awesome. He was a cool cat.
40:35 He’s one of those guys that just stands out, and he’s made a huge name for himself. And not only that, he’s performed. So credit to the guys. I think people could take a chapter in his book, that’s for sure.
40:53 Brian Rose: Maybe we see you wearing some mink coats at some of them.
40:58 Rory MacDonald: No, that’s not me. He does it well, though. I think if I did it, people would be like, huh, it wouldn’t go over so well.
41:06 Brian Rose: But you’re in a similar position now, because you’re headlining cards now. Unlike in the UFC now, you’re kind of the man behind the brand.
41:15 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, but I think everybody’s got their own personality and image to go with, and I’m just going to keep doing me. I think people resonate with me in my fights. At the end of the day, they come to see me fight, because they know it’s going to be a show. I’m not going to be pussyfooting around in there anymore. It’s going to be a hardcore fight.
41:40 Brian Rose: And from here on out, are you going in with a new aggressive, a new will?
41:46 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. What you’ve seen in my past fights, my Robbie Lawlor fights, fight Damian Maya, Carlos Condit, B.J. Penn, the ones you’ve really seen my personality come through, I’m really focused on just really expressing myself and the rest of my career. That’s my biggest focus.
42:07 It’s just when I step into the cage, let everything happen that I feel inside me. Don’t have second thoughts on what I need to do. Just let me be me.
42:19 Brian Rose: Is that a martial artist at his very best when he is literally in the now, the present, not thinking forward, not thinking back?
42:30 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, you can’t handcuff yourself with so many different ideas in your head.
42:36 Me, I like to learn new things. I’m obsessive about martial arts and learning, because I just love martial arts. When there’s so much information coming out, it’s almost overload. And that’s what it was at that point. It kind of made me a realization.
42:54 I have a strong base here and a lot of knowledge, and let’s ride that way. Trust what you have and what you have. I’m shutting off information, because that would be stupid too, but there’s definitely a certain direction I’m going and focusing on that. When it comes to press conferences, I think the public can see through anything that’s not you. Yeah, absolutely.
43:18 They know better than almost anyone else, and they’ll either give it the thumbs up or thumbs down.
43:23 Brian Rose: McGregor’s interesting, because you spent a little time with him on the media tour, but I remember the Aldo thing was just crazy. He’s snatching belts up in front of him and all that stuff. And then, when it came to the week before the press conference, four or five days before the fight, he was really quiet. And he was next to Dana, and the whole press, they were like, come on, come on, give us some of that stuff.
43:42 And he was just like… I think he said something that always resonated with me. He says, I’m congruent with who I am in the moment. And if I’m angry or braggadocio, great. But if I’m not, then I’m not going to be.
43:55 Rory MacDonald: And he was probably cutting weights like seriously at that point, too. He was half dead.
43:59 Brian Rose: Yeah, maybe. Or maybe at that point, he had done all the psychological stuff, and there was no point to just spin it more. But then again, when Nate Diaz, you know, bottles are getting thrown and things like that.
44:09 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, no. It’s funny to see the whole dynamic change with guys promoting their fights and getting opportunities. Everybody feels like to get anywhere in the UFC, they need to be McGregor now. Everybody’s trying to be him. It’s pretty crazy.
44:26 Brian Rose: Is it working?
44:27 Rory MacDonald: No, because it’s not them. Like I was saying, you’ve got to have your own thing. And I think that’s something the UFC kind of lost touch in. And the Belltors, they know what they’re doing there.
44:41 They see a personality in someone, and they’re going to let the people see that side of them. They’re going to promote that part of them that the people get excited about. And unfortunately, the UFC’s kind of lost that a little bit where it’s just like, you’re either going to be this way, you’re going to be this guy, or you’re just going to be on the undercard.
45:01 Brian Rose: Yeah, and then Bellator has like Fedor’s sweater. I thought that was kind of quick.
45:06 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. People love that.
45:08 Brian Rose: Some of these stories, yeah. Just to finish with Connor, when you see his fighting style, what do you see there?
45:15 Rory MacDonald: Power puncher, super, super heavy and accurate left hand.
45:19 He’s got great footwork and movement, you know? And he sees everything coming. He’s very composed in there. I think that’s one of his big things, is composure in those huge pressure moments.
45:33 Brian Rose: You see just the electricity in the arena when he gets in these fights now, like when he fought Alvarez.
45:41 Rory MacDonald: There was just an electric arena. And he’s in there like, this is where he belongs. And when I was seeing Alvarez, it seemed like he was shitting his pants a little bit. Like he was on an adrenaline dump and freaking out.
46:00 Brian Rose: It’s strange, isn’t it?
46:02 It’s almost like that Bruce Lee line, you know, when my opponent expands, I contract. But it was almost the opposite way. And yeah, obviously Alvarez knew that was going to happen, was prepared mentally for it happening. But when it happens, yeah.
46:17 Rory MacDonald: Sometimes just the adrenaline and the moment takes over and all that shit you were working on goes out the window.
46:24 Brian Rose: That’s, you know, composure. There’s a lot to be said for that. And that’s based on experience?
46:31 Rory MacDonald: In personality, too. Just being able to handle those kind of situations.
46:36 McGregor’s excellent at it.
46:38 Brian Rose: Have you ever been phased?
46:41 Rory MacDonald: Oh, yeah. Carlos Condit, the Robbie Lawlor fight. Those are two, well, the second Robbie Lawlor fight.
46:50 I was freaking out.
46:52 Brian Rose: Why?
46:52 Rory MacDonald: Just a moment, you know. I kind of panicked and had an adrenaline dump and just like, kill.
47:01 Brian Rose: What, like in fifth round, you mean?
47:04 Rory MacDonald: No, just like right off the bat. Okay, right off the bat. I was moving a little better in the Robbie fight, I guess, like a little more composed. But yeah, that’s just more experience, I guess.
47:16 Brian Rose: For people that don’t, are familiar with the term, what does it feel like an adrenaline dump?
47:22 Rory MacDonald: To people who don’t fight? It’s like, it’s like just like going from, you’re like in a fast car, like a Ferrari, and you’re just stepping on the gas and you’re going down the highway, going down turns, don’t know what’s coming next, but you’ve got the gas pedal pinned to the floor and you’re just going with whatever you see coming at, you know what I mean? You’re just ripping through. I guess that’s the best way to handle it, or to explain it.
47:57 Brian Rose: Okay, and then when it ends, it just stops.
48:00 Rory MacDonald: And then the fatigue, you really feel the fatigue when that adrenaline goes away. You feel all the pain and you feel all the fatigue instantly, like a truck.
48:13 Brian Rose: Okay, and that happened in that fifth round?
48:17 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, fourth round. Yeah, after I tried to finish him, he stayed up and against Carlos, I think it was the third round, and he had hit me with a hook, and it just kind of like hit me like a truck.
48:34 Brian Rose: What keeps you in there at that moment? What do you think it is?
48:39 Rory MacDonald: Well, it’s just like survival at that point. You don’t want to get your ass kicked, you’re just trying to hang on at that point, trying to get your bearings back, claw your way back to being composed, I guess.
48:54 Brian Rose: Okay, because you want to win at survival.
48:57 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, it’s more survival. The situation at that point, when you’re freaking out, you’re more in survival mode than rather than thinking about winning. You’re just trying to hang on.
49:09 Brian Rose: And what was Robbie like? Are you locked into what he’s feeling a lot of the time?
49:14 Do you feel his energy, whether he’s frustrated or getting tired?
49:18 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, well, against anybody you’re fighting. A lot is reading the person, you know. Do you have them hurt, or do you feel that they’re breaking and your confidence going up? That’s a huge thing in fights.
49:30 When you feel the momentum shift, there’s something to be said about that. You have to have a sick sense about that, about how that person’s feeling. If you could feel their fear and anxiety, and you could really put it on them, then you’re going to see that they crash a lot faster. And a guy like Robbie, when I was hitting him, he was pretty composed, you know. You’ve seen him after I was kicking his ass in the end of the third.
49:59 He was like pumped up after that. He was a maniac, you know. He was super, like, he was just down. He was composed in those moments. Whereas a lot of other people would just be like, holy shit, I’ve got to hang on here.
50:16 Brian Rose: And that wasn’t acting on his part?
50:18 Rory MacDonald: It didn’t seem like it, to me at least.
50:21 Brian Rose: Is it even possible to act at that point?
50:24 Rory MacDonald: I don’t think so. The truth comes out in the cage, absolutely.
50:28 It’s a very honest sport that we do, so you get to find out who you are in there. And at the same time, though, you have to still be conservative. Even if you feel someone’s energy dropping, feeling their anxiety going up, you can’t over, you know, go too far.
50:43 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s a balance. You don’t want to get yourself gassed out if you make the wrong decision.
50:48 Rory MacDonald: But, you know, everything’s a risk-reward management, I guess.
50:52 Brian Rose: What do you say when someone on the street sees that fight or sees the shape that you look and Robbie looks at the end of it, and then they’re like, why do you do this for a living? Do you ever have to explain that to kind of the layman?
51:05 Rory MacDonald: It’s also an addiction. You know, some people skydive and stuff like that and adrenaline junkie stuff, you know.
51:12 Fighting is an addiction. You see that all the time with guys that just can’t let go of the sport.
51:19 Brian Rose: For you, too.
51:20 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, I don’t feel like I’ve gotten that point. I still think I’m hitting my stride here, but I’m 27 years old.
51:28 But, yeah, it’s an addicting thing. Like, just like having this year off and then another year off, basically. Like, you really, you feel it, that addiction kicking in. Like, I’m getting in the edge here, you know. I’m bored with life.
51:47 Got to get back in there.
51:49 Brian Rose: I had the boxer, Derek, just saw her here earlier in the week, and he said, there’s just nothing like it. And he said, that’s why guys don’t want to stop. It’s like there’s no drug, there’s nothing else out there that makes you feel that way going in. Yeah.
52:05 Rory MacDonald: And winning a fight is just awesome feeling. Like, it’s, you know, you get, what do you call that there? And you get, like, really happy. Morphins. Yeah, yeah.
52:18 Like, it’s like, you know, it’s an empowering moment when you can beat someone’s ass, I guess. I don’t know. I find it fun. I really enjoy fighting, and winning fights especially.
52:29 Brian Rose: What do you do when you win?
52:31 Rory MacDonald: What do you mean? What do you mean?
52:33 Brian Rose: Is there a ritual? Is there something you do? Do you feel like you want to, you know, spend time with your trainers?
52:38 Do you want to be alone?
52:40 Rory MacDonald: No, I mean, I usually am around people after and try to, you know, celebrate. But I like to resonate in the moment and, you know, that good feeling that you get, you know, like riding that wave.
52:55 Brian Rose: Okay. How long does it last?
52:57 Rory MacDonald: Usually a couple weeks or a week or, you know. It gets shorter and shorter, though, I’ve been fighting. At first, like, when I first started fighting, it would be like months. You feel good about yourself. Now it’s like two days, and you’re like, ah, I’ve got to get back in there.
53:13 Brian Rose: You’re a father now. How has that changed your mindset on fighting, you know, everything?
53:20 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, well, it’s been an amazing thing. Like, it’s just every day has been so much better, you know, having my daughter around, you know. She just makes me super happy every time I see her face and think about her.
53:35 So that’s been probably the best part of my life, you know, is having my baby girl. You know, it’s amazing. And as far as my career, it’s just another motivator to go in there and kick ass and, you know, if someone’s in my way, you know, I’m going to be going through them and make sure she has a good life and everything she wants.
53:56 Brian Rose: How old is she?
53:57 Rory MacDonald: She’s seven and a half months.
53:59 Brian Rose: Okay, my boy’s about eight and a half months, so we’re close on that. Congrats. How did that ever happen? Because, like, everything I’ve seen about you, you know, I’m not saying that the name, the Canadian Psycho, was right, but I just figure you’re living alone, you’re wearing suits and ties all the time, you’re training at TriStar, you’re cutting your hand with the avocado knife, you know, all those things that Murray McDonald does, I would have never thought you would have been, you know, a family man and a father.
54:26 Rory MacDonald: It was an appliance situation, but, you know, me and my girlfriend, we had a child, you know, and things are good.
54:34 Brian Rose: That’s cool.
54:35 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
54:35 Brian Rose: Okay, and it makes you, if anything, more empowered.
54:39 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, absolutely.
54:40 You know, I’m happier, and I think that’s a good thing for my career.
54:44 Brian Rose: It’s strange to see that, like, all of a sudden you have all this kind of love inside you. Yeah, it’s his own. Right, and you’re like, where did this come from, right? Yeah.
54:53 Because it wasn’t really there before.
54:55 Rory MacDonald: It freaks me out, for sure.
54:56 Brian Rose: It does, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
54:58 Rory MacDonald: Sometimes I have my moments where I’m just like, what, yeah, why am I feeling that way?
55:02 Brian Rose: It’s bizarre. We saw McGregor announce he’s got a baby on the way. Oh, yeah, yeah. And, you know, you never see McGregor say anything, you know, even on the fence, and he’s like, I’ll be honest, I’m shitting my jocks. You know, he’s like, he’s nervous about it.
55:17 Yeah. And like, that’s obviously not his persona, you know. Yeah, not at all. Yeah, that’s cool, and happy for him. I think he’s thinking, I don’t want to screw this up.
55:26 And I think he’s also thinking, I don’t want my kid to be like, one of those kids of famous people.
55:32 Rory MacDonald: Of what?
55:32 Brian Rose: Famous people. Oh, okay. You know, like celebrity kid.
55:35 He’s like, I don’t want them growing up like that. Yeah. So I think that’s the big things on his mind.
55:39 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, well, you know, I think if he’s conscious of it, it’s just going to happen naturally. I think that’s a lot of advice people gave me, and it seems to be coming out.
55:46 You know, I was freaking out too. Like, wow. And especially when I found out it was a girl. You know, I was like, oh, I’m going to have a daughter. What do I do there?
55:55 How do I?
55:56 Brian Rose: Why does that freak you out?
55:58 Rory MacDonald: Well, I mean, I didn’t grow up around girls. I didn’t have no sisters or anything like that. I was brothers and, you know, I’m not like, not really like sensitive to like girly things, you know what I mean?
56:11 So I think that’s going to be a learning experience that I’m excited for now. At first, I was, you know, I was shitting my pants. It definitely made me nervous, but it’s the best thing. I’m super happy to have a daughter. I wouldn’t change it for anything.
56:27 Brian Rose: Yeah, I think certain guys need daughters.
56:29 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
56:31 Brian Rose: Because it’s like they need to just kind of experience some feminine energy in their life, right? Yeah, yeah. You spend all day with guys trying to knock your block off, and it’s a very male-dominated, testosterone-heavy environment.
56:43 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I definitely need a new experience in my life.
56:46 Brian Rose: Yeah, I have a stepdaughter, and so it brings out different things in you, you know? It’s almost like, it’s strange, it’s almost like this romance that doesn’t go anywhere. It’s like it’s always this kind of strange, you know, daughter relationship you have, and it’s different. Yeah, it’s a special thing.
57:03 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, it’s pretty cool.
57:04 Brian Rose: It’s like with a boy, you’re like, okay, I got this.
57:07 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I was pretty certain it was going to be a boy, and I was like, I was pretty cocky about it. Like, yeah, we’re going to do this, this, and that. I’d like to have a boy too, but I mean, I’m excited to, you know, experience what it’s going to be like to be a father to a daughter, you know, it’s going to be cool.
57:21 Brian Rose: Is she going to be rolling on the mats when she’s two or three years old?
57:25 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I’ve tried to teach her a bit of martial arts, but nothing as far as getting into fighting, that’s for sure. I think it’s important for women to know some self-defense, so I definitely want my daughter knowing some stuff, at least how to protect herself anyway.
57:40 Brian Rose: Yeah, definitely. You’re a big fan of hunting.
57:43 You got into that last few years, right?
57:46 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I’ve been trying. It’s hard to get out, it seems like, especially that I’m in the city of Montreal a lot, but try.
57:54 Brian Rose: You’re not a city boy?
57:55 Rory MacDonald: No, I mean, there’s parts of it I do like, but, you know, there’s a lot of it that I dislike, just being how long it takes to get out in nature sometimes, if you just want to go out for the night and be back at the gym tomorrow, you know, it’s a little impossible that way.
58:13 Brian Rose: What do you like about hunting, and for someone that doesn’t understand it? What is it like going out there, and what does it do for you spiritually?
58:25 Rory MacDonald: I think it’s important to have that experience about getting your own food. I think that’s just like, you need to do that as a human, you need to have that experience, I don’t know, for me anyway.
58:40 In the early going, I was out in a small town in the country area, so it was like pretty natural to go fishing every day, and my dad would go hunting and bring meat back, you know. So now that I’m in the city as a man, I crave those experiences that I kind of had to miss out on because of my career. But when I am out there, you know, so far I’ve proven to be a pretty shitty hunter, because I haven’t gotten much luck.
59:08 Brian Rose: What are you hunting with, and what are you hunting?
59:12 Rory MacDonald: It always changes, I went elk hunting one, deer hunting, got a rabbit once.
59:17 Brian Rose: Okay, and what’s it like to shoot a deer and then take it and take the meat and all that, what is the experience like?
59:25 Rory MacDonald: I’ve never gotten a deer.
59:27 Brian Rose: Okay, so to be continued.
59:29 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, like I said, it’s been pretty tough to get out often, and the seasons are short, you know, like if you have a small window, and if you’re training for a fight, there’s no chance you’re going to be able to get out, you know, maybe once in the season, you know.
59:47 That’s what I did last season, once, and I got, they didn’t see nothing.
59:51 Brian Rose: Yeah, that’s just how it goes. I’ve had guys that say when they’re out there hunting, it’s like almost the most respectful you can be, you know, to the animal, to like kill it and then kind of honor it and then dress it and then actually eat the meat, and it’s almost counterintuitive to what a lot of, you know, animal rights have act. This would say that it’s a cruel thing.
1:00:10 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, absolutely.
1:00:11 I think that’s a stupid outlook and just ignorant. I mean, that’s where we come from. Like, that’s how you survive. Kill or be killed, and you know, you need to kill to survive, right? But it doesn’t need to be done in a disrespectful way.
1:00:27 I think a lot of that outlook came from, you know, you see on the internet, animals getting treated like with insane cruelty, you know, that’s just so evil and terrible, and I don’t believe in that. I think there’s a way of going about it where you kill the animal with the least suffering possible and, you know, and using as much of the animal as you can with, you know, from its meat and everything, you know, its fur if possible, you know, its hide and whatever, like use the animal for what it is and not just a trophy, like trophy hunting, I think, is a bit silly.
1:01:08 Brian Rose: Yeah, I really want to go.
1:01:10 So, if anyone’s listening, I want to go. Go with Joe. You’re a go with Joe, yeah. I think you can go to like, you know, Poland or something here and do that in like the season, so I want to check it out. What’s your diet like now?
1:01:22 You know, I mean, are you fighting at 170 for Paul? Yeah. Okay. Are you big into, you know, vegan lifestyle? Do you care with your proteins, like what it’s like?
1:01:30 I’m pretty open to everything. My girlfriend’s Italian, so we… A lot of pasta. Yeah. She’s a good cook too, so, you know, but for the most part, you know, I eat chicken salad a lot.
1:01:44 That’s like my main meal. Okay. But I’m pretty wide open, you know, I’ll eat whatever. Gluten free, sugar free? No.
1:01:53 Rory MacDonald: No. All the gluten, all the sugar, bring it on. But not for weight cutting week. No, no, it’s more strict. I’m a nutritionist, George Lockhart, I don’t know.
1:02:02 He’s still a nutritionist. Yeah, you know, he’s the best. That guy is super smart. He’s just, he knows everything. Makes my head hurt when he starts talking about that stuff.
1:02:12 Brian Rose: What do you weigh right now, roughly?
1:02:14 Rory MacDonald: Probably 200-ish.
1:02:15 Brian Rose: Okay. So 30 pounds, which to a normal person sounds crazy, but…
1:02:19 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, but I mean, it’s over two months, you know?
1:02:22 Brian Rose: Okay. Yeah. And you can fight at 185 too, if you want to.
1:02:26 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, I’ll be smaller than most of the guys cutting down to that weight, obviously, but whatever.
1:02:32 Brian Rose: What do you think most people like watching us who don’t know the game that well would be surprised to know about Rory when he’s preparing for a fight and be like, oh, I didn’t know you would do that, or I’m surprised you do that?
1:02:47 Rory MacDonald: I like trading stocks. Really? Yeah. Trading stocks? Yeah.
1:02:53 Brian Rose: Like day trading?
1:02:54 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, not that much, but yeah.
1:02:56 Brian Rose: Huh. During fight week?
1:02:58 Rory MacDonald: No.
1:02:58 Okay. It’s more when I have time and I’m kind of bored, I guess. Okay. Yeah. I just got into it.
1:03:05 Okay. So I’m taking it pretty slow.
1:03:07 Brian Rose: I was a banker for 10 years, so I used to trade. Oh, yeah? Mostly bonds and bond futures, some kind of futures.
1:03:12 Rory MacDonald: Okay, yeah. I’m not even into that. I’m into super basic stuff. I’m just learning.
1:03:18 Brian Rose: Like commodities or foreign exchange?
1:03:20 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. I’m into penny stock stuff, you know? Okay. Just buy a little so high. Okay.
1:03:26 Brian Rose: It kind of goes with the psycho look. Now you’re the Wall Street guy as well. Yes. But yeah, that’s surprising. I think most people wouldn’t expect that.
1:03:32 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. Well, it’s new. It’s new, too.
1:03:36 Brian Rose: Okay. May 19th, say you make quick work of Paul, right?
1:03:41 Which I’m guessing you’re expecting to do.
1:03:43 Rory MacDonald: Maybe.
1:03:44 Brian Rose: What’s the next year look like for you? What are some of the big things you want to do with Ballatora with your own career? Yeah.
1:03:50 Rory MacDonald: I was talking to Scott the other day at the press conference. If you beat Paul, the title shot’s there against Lima.
1:04:01 Basically, what I’m looking for is a fight every three months.
1:04:05 Brian Rose: Wow. That’s a lot.
1:04:06 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, it is. So if Lima can step in that fast, or if they need a little more time to promote that fight, then I’ll fight someone else.
1:04:15 But basically, I’m looking for a fight every three months against a big name.
1:04:19 Brian Rose: Okay. Because you’ve had this hiatus one fight in two years.
1:04:22 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
1:04:22 Brian Rose: You’re like, I want to do this now.
1:04:24 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I’m pretty hungry. I got to get in there and stop sitting on my ass for the last two years, it seems like.
1:04:30 Brian Rose: Okay. I think Lima just tweeted, I’m going to fight the winner.
1:04:33 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I’ve seen that last night.
1:04:35 Brian Rose: Sounds like he’s game.
1:04:36 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I know. He’s good to go. It’s just as far as what Ballatora’s thinking about, as far as promotion time. I don’t know.
1:04:44 Brian Rose: Okay. We’ll see. And where do you want that fight to happen?
1:04:48 Rory MacDonald: Canada. Yeah.
1:04:49 I think that’s what everyone’s gunning for. I took this fight because it was kind of before I wanted, I scheduled to come back. But it was a big opportunity. The timing seemed right. So I came here to London.
1:05:04 But the plan was just to fight in Canada and bring Ballatora to Canada.
1:05:09 Brian Rose: Okay. Because you guys, Canadian fans are huge.
1:05:13 Rory MacDonald: Yeah. And you’re from there, so.
1:05:15 Yeah. And they deserve a good card. And I know Ballatora’s going to deliver.
1:05:20 Brian Rose: Nice. Just two things in the sport I want to ask you about.
1:05:23 Head trauma, what do you think we’re going to see this go in the next five or ten years? And do you spar differently than you used to?
1:05:31 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you get to a certain level where you know what you’re doing. So it’s fine.
1:05:37 It’s just tuning up the timing more. You know, you don’t need to be doing it three times a week. Okay. For the guys that are experienced. But there’s something to be said where you need to get the rounds in, you know, in the early going.
1:05:51 But yeah, I definitely try not to bang my body up too much anymore.
1:05:55 Brian Rose: Have you felt the effects of getting in the head before make you feel after a big crazy fight with Robbie?
1:06:02 Rory MacDonald: I didn’t really get rocked in that fight. Like, you know, as far as my concussion goes, like I haven’t really had serious concussion. Okay.
1:06:11 I think I’m surprised actually. I’ve had a few in the gym going against boxers, like pro boxers. Remember, I got a couple of nasty ones from Adonis Stevenson. He’s a big lefty power puncher. Okay.
1:06:26 Yeah, I had a couple of pretty nasty ones from him. They were minor ones, but you know. But you feel it for a few days. Yeah. Okay.
1:06:34 Brian Rose: So people are being extra careful these days.
1:06:37 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, a lot of people.
1:06:38 Brian Rose: Do you see small school fighters where you’re like, man, they have been hit too many times?
1:06:43 Rory MacDonald: Not really. I haven’t really seen many guys.
1:06:46 Like, I haven’t seen any weird effects from people that I’ve been around anyway.
1:06:50 Brian Rose: Okay. Second thing is steroids in the sport have obviously come a long way since GSP left. I think one of the reasons he was leaving was almost a protest to the UFC saying you need to actually clean this up.
1:07:01 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, but it’s still a problem.
1:07:03 Brian Rose: It is. Yeah. Okay. No, these guys are still cheating. So you saw this testing, but there’s always what, a new piece of science out there?
1:07:11 Rory MacDonald: I think these doctors, they just, I mean, I’m not super educated on how they’re getting around these tests, but even the guys that are getting tests that are getting popped for it, they’re just saying, oh, someone tainted my supplements, or someone put something in this, or I didn’t know. It’s just, it’s too hokey for me, man. I’ve never been about that. I came into this sport with a pretty genuine approach as far as keeping it real and getting my goals without that extra help and being honest.
1:07:49 And I’m sticking to that. I know my abilities are at that level without any extra help.
1:07:55 Brian Rose: Yeah, Connor says something similar. He’s like, once someone does that, you almost give up because you’re saying I need something else to get me through.
1:08:05 Rory MacDonald: I think their mental state is just weaker.
1:08:08 Okay. To take that route, you just got to be a little bit, you got to not believe in yourself as much. So that’s going to come out in those hard fights, I think, too. Unfortunately, it increases your abilities. That’s the problem.
1:08:24 Brian Rose: Have you been in the ring sometimes with guys and you’re like, I know something’s up here.
1:08:30 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
1:08:31 Brian Rose: Okay. And what do you do when that happens?
1:08:34 Rory MacDonald: Just beat their ass.
1:08:35 Brian Rose: I was wondering if I could finish off and just ask you some questions just about you. I always ask my guests here if there’s something that you remember changing about your game, whether five years, ten years ago, that all of a sudden got you more success. Maybe it was a meditation routine or a certain mindset or a certain time you woke up or something that has just been a real positive for you. I always ask everyone here a couple of questions at the end.
1:09:09 I’m going to ask you.
1:09:11 Rory MacDonald: Okay. That’s kind of fitting.
1:09:13 Brian Rose: But if you could make a phone call to the 20-year-old, Roy McDonald, and give that young man a bit of advice, I guess you’ve probably already moved to Montreal, but if you could tell him something with what you know now, what would it be?
1:09:32 Rory MacDonald: Just stay being a killer.
1:09:34 I was a killer when I was a kid, man. I was a pretty rough kid. I like to get into serious scraps and go forward, push forward. I think I would try to recommend that part of my training and attitude. I kind of strayed away from that, trying to learn a lot of new styles and things like that where I kind of lost touch of what I am as a fighter.
1:10:05 Which is a fighter and its purity. Yeah, I like to move forward. Like I was saying at a press conference the other day, I’m going to move forward, I’m going to hit you, and if you’re going to take a step back, or even if you hit me, and you want a breather, I’m going to be right there in your face, and I’m going to drown you until you don’t believe in yourself anymore. Before you know it, you’re giving up, and it’s over.
1:10:28 Brian Rose: Back to the old school, Roy.
1:10:30 Rory MacDonald: Yeah.
1:10:31 Brian Rose: Okay. And not the, let me go down this rabbit hole of technicality, or let me try this new style of this or that.
1:10:40 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I always stay technical in all of it, I think. You know, my boxing, I don’t think, but there needs to be an aggression behind a certain attitude, you know?
1:10:54 Yeah.
1:10:54 Brian Rose: On that same note, best advice you’ve ever received could be from that first trainer you had, GSP, or maybe someone else, maybe your daughter gave you some advice. She’s not talking yet, but she will.
1:11:07 Rory MacDonald: Honestly, I can’t really think of something like that. It’s in there somewhere.
1:11:12 Brian Rose: Yeah, but you’ve kind of always been the guy that kind of knew where he was going.
1:11:16 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I’ve been pretty focused on my own stuff, you know, on my goals, you know?
1:11:21 Brian Rose: Yeah, they always said that thing, they always say, like, about Michael Jackson, that as soon as someone made it famous, that’s the age that they stopped maturing. And it’s just like, you were like in the lights of the cage, and you kind of grew up in the UFC. Do you ever look back and say, wow, that’s a strange existence?
1:11:38 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, but I never got, I don’t think I ever got very big-headed about it. I don’t think that’s my person, maybe in a couple situations I may have, but, you know, you get back to reality after a little while, you know, as a young guy. But I always try to stay pretty humble, and I’m still focused on just making sure I’m just being myself.
1:12:01 Brian Rose: Last question, to that 20-year-old out there watching us right now, who knows, it could be in China, Brazil, somewhere around the world, who wants to become a fighter, who wants to, you know, be on the head card at Bellator London or in the UFC or something.
1:12:19 And, you know, the game has changed in the last 10 years since you started 15 years, where it used to be guys that loved the sport, loved martial arts, and now there’s a lot of money involved, there’s a lot of fame. I’m sure you see fighters that are coming up that don’t have the heart of a fighter. But what advice do you give to someone who’s 20 that says, I want to do this?
1:12:38 Rory MacDonald: You know what? Try it out.
1:12:39 I think that’s the best way you can do it. I’ve seen so many guys with, like, high aspirations and goals, and then they actually get into a fight, and they’re like, I don’t want to do this shit. It’s just not me. So you’ve got to figure out if it’s actually you. You know?
1:12:57 That’s what it’s about.
1:12:58 Brian Rose: And is that all about, like, the heart of a fighter?
1:13:01 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, I mean, you’ll figure it out pretty quick, like I was saying, this sport doesn’t lie to you when you’re in there. Like, the feelings you have when you’re in a real fight, and when you sit back afterwards and you think about it, those feelings that you had in there, and you can genuinely feel if you enjoyed that experience and you want to do it again, or that was a terrible experience and I never wanted to be in that situation again.
1:13:25 Brian Rose: I think you said about the Rabi fight, or maybe it’s another fight where you said, I learned a lot about myself in that fight.
1:13:33 Rory MacDonald: I guess you learn a lot from these things. Losses are usually the biggest, you know, they get you back where you need your head space, you know? If you make the right decisions, I guess. Like, some people, when they lose, they blame everybody else and every other thing that made them lose.
1:13:51 But I try to think, like, it’s me in there, and I lost, so what did I do wrong? And try to figure out how to get back on the right path.
1:13:59 Brian Rose: Yeah, I think those are the ones that become winners, is when you own all of that stuff.
1:14:05 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, you got to be honest with yourself at the end of the day if you want to get better, if you want to start winning again.
1:14:13 Brian Rose: Yeah, we’ve heard fighters say, oh, it wasn’t my night.
1:14:16 That’s probably not the way to get better.
1:14:18 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, and sometimes it’s not. Sometimes you just go in there and you’re like, I don’t want to be here. Like, I’d like to be on my couch right now. And you have those days, but, you know, you have to get through that.
1:14:30 Brian Rose: I keep thinking in my mind, like, that fight with Rob, what if, like, everyone in the arena disappeared, the lights went out, and it’s just you and Lala in the cage. It would be the same fight, right?
1:14:42 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, it would have been. Yeah, absolutely. I don’t think the crowd had too much to do with that fight.
1:14:48 Brian Rose: And you would, you just, at that point, you said it’s just kill or be killed. You want to take it to the limit.
1:14:55 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
1:14:56 Brian Rose: Rory, thank you so much for coming.
1:14:58 I’ve been a big fan, you know, since back in the day. Since, you know, I remember GSP saying, look out for this kid, because he is coming from my belt. And, you know, that says a lot about GSP, and it says a lot about you. And it says, amazing you see a guy at that level that’s, I don’t know, I don’t know, humble’s the right word, or just something to say something about that, of a guy that’s coming up, you know. And it was amazing watching your relationship with there.
1:15:23 I’ve seen interviews with Faras, and he just seems like one of a super smart guy. It seems like you guys have amazing energy up there at TriStar. And I’ve known some people that have gone up there, and they just can’t say enough great things. So what an amazing resource to have for you, that you can just kind of roll in there. So, been a huge fan of your career.
1:15:40 Awesome that you’re coming to London. We’ll be there here, everybody from the studio on May 19th. So come here, take care of business, make that card big, and then hopefully come back to the UK, you know, again, and fight.
1:15:52 Rory MacDonald: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.
1:15:54 It was a good combo. Cool, man. Thanks, man, I appreciate it. Thank you.
