Dr John Demartini - Ultimate Self-Mastery: The Secret to Creating an Inspired and Fulfilling Life

Full transcript: Dr John Demartini on London Real

4:40 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Dr John Demartini, the human behavior specialist, educator and author. You’ve studied over 30,000 books across every academic domain, including philosophy, theology, neurology and physiology, to create the Demartini Method, a detailed understanding of the universal laws of human awareness, social dynamics and leadership. You’re best known for your Breakthrough Experience, a Life Solutions seminar that has been taught in over 155 countries, helping to solve personal challenges, build relationships, clarify purpose and achieve goals.

5:12 John, welcome to London. Thank you for having me. It’s great having you here. Before we get started, I’m just curious, what is it like when you come to London? What does this city remind you of?

5:22 You’ve probably been coming here for quite some time, but how is it different than the other 155 places you’ve been around the world? It’s one of the great cities of the world. It’s alive, it’s buzzing, it’s multicultural, it’s creative, it’s innovative, it’s transformational. You come here and it’s almost, you, I was talking to somebody yesterday and and they said, well, I came here many years ago, 15 years ago, and I went back to the same location and I didn’t recognize anything.

5:46 It was completely transformed. So it’s a transformative city and you lived in New York City for quite some time. Yes. How does it compare to New York? Like, what do you see that’s similar and different?

5:56 Well, New York has, you know, kind of straight streets and it’s kind of cubicle, and here I don’t know if there is a straight street. I think it goes everywhere. Yeah, but I think it’s more of a creative city design, and I think New York has creativity and it’s got a lot of energy too, without a doubt. But New York, I think, as, as you know, it’s a new, new city and it was structured differently. Here you have the original pathways.

6:21 I think probably the pathways, some of these streets were probably part animal pass or something when they did it, because there’s just, there’s the rhyming reason is different. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting to be in a city that has history for thousands of years. Oh yeah, you know, you can’t, you kind of feel it sometimes. You can’t put your finger on it like you said, but when you come here and you see buildings that are 1716, you go back, it’s, it’s pretty inspiring too.

6:45 Yeah, and like you said, that the roads and pathways are ancientiously. Yeah. You said, yeah, anybody who’s, I think is, you need a PhD to get a, be a taxi driver here or an Uber driver here, because just locating it, even though they, you know, have the electronic ways of doing it, some of these, these tactic guys know all the streets. Yeah, it’s hard to comprehend. They have this thing called the Knowledge, which is used to take three or four years to memorize all the streets, and I think, I mean, you know, you’re, you know you’re a neurologist, I think they did some studies and found that actually, like, both hemispheres of the brain became somehow more physically linked after you did the Knowledge.

7:23 A lot going on. I can believe it, because the integration, you know, there’s that one painter that you could fly over the city and he could recreate the city, and you wonder how they, how a massive amount of information they’re able to store in one vision. But it’s definitely a unique city, and taxi drivers or drivers, when they know how to do it and they tell you stories, when you go here and your drivers tell you stories of things that are pretty, pretty inspiring.

7:46 Yeah, the taxi drivers hate the mobile phone because they’re used to having conversations, and now people are on their phones, but back in the day when I got here, man, they would tuck your ear off. Yeah, about everything, happening, history, everything. So yeah, they’ll tell you things on who lived there, and it’s quite fun. Yeah, no, definitely for sure. Well, look, it’s great to have you on.

8:04 As I was telling you before we started, people have been asking for you for years to come on, so I’m so glad you’re here, because you’ve been doing your stuff for so long. In some ways you’re one of the originals at going out there and teaching a lot of these ideas that empower people, and so I’d love to go into your history and a lot of the things that you talk about. First tonight I was, I was, I was noticing that you’re actually teaching, I think, a seminar about gratitude.

8:28 Yes. And one of the things we did this morning, I just got back from New York yesterday, but every Monday morning before we do anything here, everyone gets in a circle and we all say something we’re grateful for. Now, in the beginning a lot of my new employees thought we were a bunch of weirdos and, let’s be honest, we are weird here, but it’s something we do every morning, and people actually start really enjoying it, and we go around and just say something we’re grateful for.

8:52 We also say an affirmation, but it’s just a great way for people to get perspective and to, and to go around the group. Also, when I was in New York City, I interviewed a guy named Wes Watson who spent 10 years in the California State Penitentiary, and he has a phrase that says life is one big gratitude test, and he says that whenever you should, you should always realize that life is happening for you, not to you, and this is a guy that’s had a hard past, and so that’s his look on gratitude, and I was wondering how you look at gratitude, because I know you talk about false gratitude and true gratitude and you’ve been teaching this for a long time, and I was wondering if you could share some of your ideas and how you came up with them. Well, first of all, I was born on Thanksgiving Day, so that probably had something to do with it.

9:37 And when I was four years old, my mom was putting me to bed and she said, make sure you count your blessings before you go to bed and think about what you’re grateful for, because if those that are grateful for things, they get more to be grateful for. And so that was kind of implanted in my thinking for young, but I really didn’t formally focus on gratitude until a little later, and then I started accumulating on a daily basis, starting around 17, 18, on documenting what I was blessed by that each day, and I called it, had the opportunity to da da, and I’ve got now 25 volumes of that, and it’s, uh, it’s probably over there’s over 5,000 pages of just gratitudes, 10-point print, one-inch margins, of daily gratitudes that I keep. And I’m a firm believer that when you do that, when you’re really balanced and you’re centered, you are grateful.

10:34 You know, if we look up to somebody and we infatuate with them and we minimize ourselves, we’re not being authentic and we’re not seeing them as they are. And we look down on people, we exaggerate ourselves and minimize them, and neither authentic. But when we actually look across with a reflective awareness with some equity and our heart opens, we realize that they’re worthy of love. Nobody’s worth putting on pedestals or pits, but everybody’s worth putting in hearts.

10:57 And when that states there, it’s just you’re resonant, if you will, and you end up having more, I guess, sustainable fair exchanges and transactions that start building momentum and they expand opportunity. So I’m a firm believer that if you document your gratitudes, it definitely adds to the opportunities and the contribution in life and the reciprocation that you get back. So I’m a firm believer of that because I’ve seen the results of it and I got it all documented, and it’s really amazing what happens when we, I always say gratitude is the key that opens up the gateway of the heart.

11:31 Inside the heart’s love, I love, window washes the mind as it radiates out and that brings an enthusiasm to the body and more certainty and presence to our own existence, and then we end up having the opportunities that magnetizes and the synchronicities of people, places, things, ideas and events into our life that synchronize with what our innermost dominant thought is. We create things that are very fulfilling. Wow, so it all starts with gratitude. Yeah, I think that gratitude is a great door opener for our existence.

12:00 And for when you meet people that just have a hard time getting in touch with gratitude, or people that don’t know how to practice it, like what do you tell them? How do you kick start that off? Well, there’s 15 delusions that I find that leads to people that shut off their gratitude. They have expectations on people to be one-sided. If I went up to somebody and I said, and just anybody I just walked up to me, I said, you’re always kind, never cruel, always up, never down, always positive, never negative, always peaceful, never wrathful, always considerate, never inconsiderate, always generous, never stingy, always giving, never taking, would you believe me?

12:33 They’d go, not really, because they immediately, with intuitively, like a thermostat, think of the sides when they were not that way. If I said you’re always down, you’re never up, you’re always negative, you’re never positive, you’re always taking, never giving, always stingy, never generous, always inconsiderate, never considerate, always wrathful, never peaceful, always negative, never positive, they would have the same thing, but they would think of their upsides. If I said sometimes they’re kind, sometimes they’re cruel, sometimes they’re nice, sometimes they’re mean, sometimes they’re positive, sometimes I meant they go, yes, they’d have a sense for that balanced state, that they have both.

13:04 But whenever they are putting an expectation on themselves or others to be one-sided, they set themselves up for unrealistic expectations that are unobtainable or sustainable, and as a result of it, they end up in gratitude because they have the anger. I call it the ABCDFGH’s of negativity: anger and aggression, blame and feelings of betrayal, criticisms and challenges, despair and depression, the desire to exit and escape, frustration, futility, grouchiness and grief, and hatred and hurt. And we create those as a result of an unrealistic expectation that we project on others or on ourselves to be one-sided, or we expect that individual to live in our values, or expect ourselves to live in somebody else’s values and not be authentic to ourselves.

13:48 We set ourselves up that undermine the gratitude attitude, and we also do that on objects. We could do that in ATM machine or a computer. I’ve seen people get really angry at a computer and call it stupid, and I’m starting to think maybe they’re reflecting on something. Right, but we put unrealistic expectations out there and it erodes the natural yearning to unexpressed thank you. And I remember you talking before that a lot of us start off blaming others, and then we blame ourself, and then hopefully we get to an evolution where there’s nothing to believe, there’s nothing to blame.

14:21 Yeah. Is that a process sometimes as we grow up, you know, is that, or how does that work? I believe it was picked to this Epictetus was the philosopher that first put that together, that term, and most people want to be victims of their history instead of masters of their destiny. At first they were, you know, they want to look at an external source, and as a result of their blame these things outside themselves, then they blame themselves because they have this injected value system of mothers, fathers, preachers, teachers, conventions, traditions that they’re comparing their life to, and they think, oh, they’re making a mistake.

14:55 And eventually they realize, no, there’s a transcendent awareness, as Kohlberg describes, where you realize there’s, it wasn’t either of those, there’s just something to be grateful for. And I think that that’s a liberating state that not everybody attains on a consistent basis by any means, but they certainly have a yearning innately, a calling, to transcend the judgments, the lower moralities of punishment, rewards that they get themselves into. Anytime you expect yourself to live in somebody else’s values, you’re going to beat yourself up.

15:26 Anytime you expect them to live in your lives, you’re going to be, you know, they’re going to be beaten up. But if you start to realize that you live in your own values, Einstein said it, if you’re a cat and you’re expecting to swim like a fish, you’re going to beat yourself up, you’re not going to appreciate yourself. Or if you’re a fish expecting to climb like a cat, you’re going to beat yourself up. But if you honor yourself as who you are, according to what you truly value and live honorably by priority, according to what’s authentic to you, you build momentum doing extraordinary things and exemplify what’s possible for other human beings.

15:54 It magnetizes opportunity and creates a leadership role that inspires. I keep thinking of that term, stay in your lane. You know, I’ve had people say that, there’s a great hip-hop artist named Ice-T and he said, if you go to the gym, you can always find someone who’s lifting more weight than you, you can always find someone that’s richer than you, and he always says stay in your lone lane. Focus on what you do, what you can do best, what you can control, how you can lead.

16:19 But we live in a world today where we’re bombarded with images of everyone that’s maybe doing things better than us, and yet it doesn’t show their value systems along with it. I don’t know, is any of these ideas making sense to you? Yes, it’s crucial, because we’re not here to compare ourselves to others. We’re here to compare our own daily actions to what’s truly highest in our own values. If we do that, we’ll expand ourselves.

16:41 Every individual has a set of priorities that they live their life by moment by moment, even though that list is evolving at any moment that’s there. And every perception, every decision and every action they take is based on that, and they’re always making a decision based on what they believe will give them the greatest advantage over disadvantage. And if they live by highest priorities, the blood glucose and oxygen goes into the forebrain and awakens the executive center, where they have the most self-governance.

17:05 They have inspired vision, strategic planning, executing plans, and they literally have fibers that go all the way down into the amygdala with GABA and glutamate that they shut down the impulse and instinct animal center that distract them from really an inspired focus. But when they live by highest priority and they’re more reject objective, they set real goals in real time that get real actions and get results. But the second they are not doing that and comparing themselves to somebody else and putting them on a pedestal, they’ll inject the values of others into their life and attempt to be like somebody else, and Emerson said envy is ignorance and imitation is suicide.

17:40 We’re not here to compare ourselves, we’re here to honor ourselves and not live in their shadows but stand on their shoulders. So the second we do that, we cloud the clarity of our own mission and calling in life and then as a result of it have unfulfillment, which then puts the glucose and blue blood down into the amygdala and makes us want to avoid the challenges and seek the easy life, and we go towards impulsive, compulsive, immediate gratifying addictive behaviors as a compensation for unfulfilled highest values. So we in a sense disempower ourselves and get into polarities and ungoverned external influence instead of an inspired calling from within to do something amazing.

18:17 It’s important to live by priority on a daily basis. Right, and we’ve all been inspired, we’ve all had that moment where we’re just inspired or you know, with some great, you know, higher purpose of a goal, right, that means raising a child or building a church or on building a science fair project or working on a Lego set, right, where you kind of transcend everything and you don’t succumb to all these other lower desires. We’ve all been there, but a lot of us aren’t there on a regular basis.

18:43 Right, some would even argue the education system was designed to not get us there. Yeah, they were making drones, not, uh, right, crowns. Right, yeah. I’m a firm believer that if you don’t fill your day with high priority actions that truly inspire you, your day is designed to fill up a low-party distractions that don’t, and the symptomatology that emerges in all areas of life, not just physiologically, as a result of that is a feedback system to let you know you’re not being authentic.

19:08 And a lot of times people are trying to get rid of some parts of themselves instead of honor what it’s trying to do to get them to be themselves. And the moment they sit and get focused on what’s really priority and give themselves permission to say no to the other things, or even delegate those things to people who’d be inspired to do that, and liberate themselves from those emotional states, they get on with an inspired, grateful, loving and very present state of a great accomplishment. They’re the excellers.

19:34 And so say, for example, I’m going to work every day doing something that doesn’t fulfill me, that doesn’t inspire me, then I’m coming home at night and I’m getting into, you know, addictions like Netflix and drinking and binge eating. Are you saying those are feedback loops to show me how much I don’t like doing that and how my life is missing something? Yes, and if we listen to that, we can get back on track. Addictive, impulsive, compulsive, immediate gratifying behaviors, which could be searching for sugar, could be consuming food, it could be coffees and teas and anything that’s a stimulant to compensate for the unfulfillment, is literally a compensation for not living according to what we value most.

20:16 Anytime we’re not living by our highest values, we create homeostatic feedback systems to get us back to it. Our brain itself is actually a highest value seeking and fulfilling organ. It’s designed to do that. So many of the symptomatologies that we actually think are problems, they’re actually nothing more than feedback systems, if interpreted wisely, to get us back off into authenticity. I really believe that our physiology, our psychology, our sociology and even our existential world is actually offering us feedback.

20:45 And that’s why, as your friend said, it’s all on the way, never in the way. And the wise individual, they found in 2013 in a science study, they found that when an individual is living by priority, they actually don’t perceive failure, they see feedback. When a person is not living by priority and they’re living lower values, they get addicted to one side and the other side feels like failure. There’s a thing called eustress and distress, and eustress is wellness promoting and distress is illness promoting.

21:13 When you live by your highest values, because you embrace both sides of life and you’re more objective, you are resilient and adaptable and you don’t get highly polarized in your emotions, and you see things on the way as feedback. But when you’re not fulfilling your highest value, you’re trying to live in other people’s values and being and imitating, you automatically, because of the unfulfillment, want to avoid pain, avoid predator and seek prey like an animal. When you do, you’re setting up a fantasy of one-sidedness, and when life smacks you with the other side, because life has two sides, you’re trying to avoid it and it’s now distress.

21:45 The same thing is now distress instead of eustress. It’s like a young boy who loves video games. When he’s really inspired about the video games, he’s going to conquer the game he’s got and he’s going to go on to pursue a greater and more challenging game, and he’s going to manipulate his parents to figure out how to get that game, and he’s going to pursue it, and the second he conquers that, he’s going to want to pursue a greater game. So when people live authentically and congruently according to what they value most, they Sue challenges that inspire him, which emerges as leadership.

22:11 But if they don’t and they’re sitting and conforming instead of enorming, they automatically inject the values of others, cloud themselves, they’re unfulfilled, then they look for me to gratification and keep getting smacked by distressing situations, and they say the world’s against them instead of in favor of their fulfillment. Right, and then they come to you to help them sort that out, or because that’s the thing, I mean, if that really worked effectively, how come so many people can, might take a lifetime to figure out that that’s happening to them, or is that all part of the process? Paul Dirac, the Nobel Prize Runner, said that it’s not that we don’t know so much, we know so much that isn’t so.

22:47 And so what we’re doing is bombarded by mothers and fathers and preachers and teachers and traditions and conventions and mores that may be set up originally, uh, in different stages of levels of awareness, uh, in a way that’s actually suppressing. And like I say, you go to school, you’re not that, you know, no one’s been taught how to be a multi-millionaire or a billionaire. Nobody’s taught how to be a great leader in the school systems, mainly for drones.

23:08 I don’t mean to be too, uh, you know, negating of it, but a lot of them are basically set up just to go get in debt under the banking system and go and get yourself in a work in a safe, secure environment. It’s more of a survival security game instead of a thrival and self-actualization game. And so as a result of it, we’re bombarded by so much that isn’t mastery, and as a result of it we think that’s what’s reality, and we can transform it and transcend it if we ask the right questions, because the quality of our life’s based on the quality questions we ask, and the ones that bring us back into equanimity and equity and authenticity liberates us from the mediocrity and gives rise to something profound in our calling to do something that’s humanitarian.

23:47 Right, and yet the whole system is stacked against us to a certain extent. So the education system was created by us lovely Victorians here in England, I think, to create factory workers. Yeah, exactly. So that’s happening, then you’ve got the whole, you know, media, you know, industry, they kind of want you to consume, um, and then they have to use sensationalisms of high polarity in order to keep your attention. Right now you’re, you’re not, well, an individual who’s on a mission is not easily distracted because they’re fulfilling their highest values.

24:16 But so many people, I ask people sometimes in conferences, how many of you would like to be, you know, financially independent? Everybody puts their hands up. And I actually did this little exercise one time, I had about 6,000 people, and I said, I said, I want everybody to pull out a piece of paper, and I want you to imagine I just gave you 10 million pounds, right? And you now you have enough money to where you could live decently. I said, now what would you do?

24:40 You got one minute to write down what you would do if you got 10 million pounds right now. What would you do? And they got, they go, on your mark, get set, going. They wrote it all down, 10 things they would do if they had 10 million pounds. And then I said, now hand it to the person next to him and let’s calculate how much you have remaining left from your 10 million pounds.

24:59 And most people who say they want to be financial independent immediately spent between 20 and 80 percent of that money in one minute with decisions to buy consumables that depreciate in values to make them feel better about themselves through other people’s brands that are overpriced, instead of building their own brand and buying assets that accumulated and allow them to work passively on their behalf. And as a result of it, they think they want to be financially dependent, but they’re actually wanting the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous that they’re subordinating to, that they admire. That’s a powerful exercise.

25:29 So by nature they’re not dependent, their behavior pattern just shows by that exercise that they will, they will never be dependent with that mentality. Independent, financial benefit, financially, no. They, the hierarchy of your values dictate your financial destiny. So tell me what your hierarchy values are and that’s how your money is going to be spent. So if you have a higher value on Jimmy Choo shoes and you actually buy in stocks and real estate holdings, then you’re going to keep buying the shoes and you never get around, you’ll have more money, money a month at the end of your money than money into your new month.

25:58 So it’s not about how much you make, it’s how you manage what you make, and the hierarchy of your values is dictating how you manage it. So I can tell by doing a value determination and look at how their values are, where they’re headed, because it’s determining their financial and their regular destiny. And if I know what that is, unless we have a shift in values, we won’t have a shift in life. And when you talk to people about being financially independent and creating money and wealth and businesses, it’s never about the money, right?

26:24 It’s never about the balance sheet and the income statement, is it always about the men, mentality? It depends on the individual reasons for doing it, but the people I know, I always say searching for money without meaning leads to debauchery, but searching for wealth building for, uh, with meaning and purpose in life, that does something that serves, leads to philanthropy. And I find that the people who are actually have a meaning when they do, when they get financially independent, they don’t stop.

26:49 They keep doing something that’s meaningful that contributes to the planet on an ever expanding scale. In the book of wealth by Hubert Howe Bancroft, 1895, then that book is published, is handed out to 400 of the most wealthy people on the planet, and it said there are three things common to wealthy people. One is that they felt by divine providence and human sovereignty that the individuals that were wealthy felt, in a sense, called or by, you know, destined to serve vast numbers of people, and they were literally thinking, how can we make a contribution to the greatest number of people, the resources we have today, most efficiently.

27:20 They also felt like they were there to not to accumulate things just for the sake of pride, but to accumulate things to invest in the highest standards, which would literally move the economy up to standards instead of mediocrity, and they did that because it would raise the standards of everybody’s jobs upward. And then they also had transcended the idea of a good and evil perspective. It was neither good nor evil, it was just a means of measuring the contribution of sustainable fair exchange and transactions that impacted a ripple effect into society.

27:51 And that state of mind was a different state of mind than, I got to get my first millions, and, you know, and they’re focused on the kind of a short-term immediate gratification system. Right, wow. So kind of like a higher purpose, giving value to a lot of different people, and then that last one is not one I would expect, this whole, there’s not the good and evil, the good and bad. Yeah, well, anything that you infatuate with occupy space and time in your mind and runs you.

28:15 Anything that you resent occupy space and time your mind and runs you. Anybody, anybody who’s tried to go to sleep with any infatuation on their mind, it’s hard to sleep, or resentment on their minds, hard to sleep, because it occupies space and time of mind and creates electronic and molecular imbalances in the brain trying to find balance at night. And so anytime you have those imbalances, it runs you. So if your money is seen as evil or seen as good, you got the fear and the greed kind of thing.

28:40 And as Warren Buffett says, until you can manage emotions, don’t expect to manage money. When you transcend that and see neither attachment on it and have no fear of loss or no, you know, fear of the gain, you just, if you’re infatuated with it, you’ll fear it’s lost. If you’re resenting it, you’re going to fear it to gain. If you love it, you transcended it and you realize what you can do with it, and you see it as a measuring mechanism of the contribution you can do that inspires you, that makes a difference in others.

29:05 Yeah, wow. But how can you actually change that mentality with people? Does it take a lot of time? No, I don’t think so. I think what it is is when people start to live congruently according to what they value most, what happens, they increase their achievement, they increase their self-worth, they end up walking their talk, they end up expanding their space and time horizons, they end up going after things that are greater and more expansive, they realize that they’re capable and confident, they realize that the people around them reflect a part of them, and if I contribute to them and help them get what they want, I get more of what I want, and they put an equity position in there instead of a narcissism or altruism position.

29:40 And as a result of it, they keep pursuing and expanding ever greater challenges of contribution, because the challenges of contribution in the world is whatever the biggest problems are on the planet. How can I be of contribution and serve that? Those individuals end up with fortunes, those individuals use resources effectively and competitively in a way that is actually serving and giving the most job opportunities. I was working with a lovely lady, I was just mentioning that picked up and got a good mining find, and her whole objective finding that wasn’t about getting a mind or doing a, you know, getting wealthy.

30:13 Her whole objective was how many jobs can I create in my country, and she found that one of the biggest finds because of it. And that’s the difference. An individual that resonates with something that’s a more universal and sustainable ends up in the universe rewarded in ways that we can’t always see. So we have to transcend that immediate gratification and have a long-term vision if we want to get the greatness out of ourselves. And when you look at the greats in history and the people that have create, created vast amounts of wealth, they almost always are those types of people.

30:43 Yeah, I found six things common to them, they say, and I tell people, and if you don’t have these on your value list, they could be put on your value list by stacking up enough associations and benefits, but they have a desire to serve vast numbers of people and build a business to serve vast number of people. Some of the wealthiest billionaires, if you look at them, that’s a common thread to them. They also have a desire to manage in the business in such a way effectively and efficiently to its maximizing profits, not because they want to just get the money, but also because that allows them to share more with their employees and also get a better price that’s competitive in the marketplace.

31:18 And so the efficiency of Parkinson’s law and regardless principles allow that to be more efficient. Then they go on the next thing, they realize that they save a portion, they never progressive portion of profit, so they have a liquid reserve, so they’re not emotionally unstable and making decisions out of impulse and instinct, but out of strategy. And they save enough to keep a cash reserve. Some of the Fortune 100 companies have at least a 40 percent total gross income that year in cash reserves, not because they just want to hold it like that, but they know that it stabilizes them and keeps them objective.

31:49 Apple does this. Yeah, they keep it 40 to 100. Microsoft kept 100 in some cases. And then they do is they then they go in and invest in ever greater degrees of leverage, so they learn the mastery and stair stepping it, and I don’t go in impulsively gambling away. They go in there methodically using their mathematics to their advantage to invest in things that are ancillary things that will allow the greatest growth and contribution, and then they accumulate to fortune not because they need it for their ego, but because if they do, they attract more opportunity, because money flows where it goes.

32:20 And then they end up finding a legacy, creating a financial cause that leaves a legacy that contributes back, creative capitalism as we could call it, and making sure it goes back, because eventually it’s going to come from people and it’s going to go back to people in the cycles of life. Right, so they’re active about that. They’re active, is that like, you know, Bill Gates and Warren Buffett giving it back to charity and being? Well, they created creative capitalism because of it, and they realize that if they try to hoard it into a monopoly, into a thing, it causes challenges in society, and in order to do that it stops their own growth.

32:49 So they realize that nature forces, uh, it’s called the one’s most ancient laws of there is, there’s a law of the one to many. I just wrote about an article on for Jet Set Magazine on that, and it says that when you’re dating, the many, right, you’re looking for the special one, and then when you got the one, you’re wondering about the many. It’s just the law that wanted many, the same thing in monarchies and democracies and social structure or or any other field.

33:13 In 299 disciplines that I’ve studied, I found this law applied. This law is the most universal law, and it applies to money. So if you try to hoard it into one source like that, nature forces you to redistribute it back into the many to do something that serves, and at the same time it disperses, there if somebody rises out of it to reconcentrate it. So nature is constantly keeping that regulated, and if it’s unregulated to one pole or the other, you get revolutions.

33:38 Once you get those things back in balance, you actually get evolutions. Right, hence the inheritance tax, that’s the way of distribution. The economist is different than the financial, the financial market is trying to get the wealth, the economists are trying to redistribute it to stabilize society. Right, and the wise individual is the one that has the balance of those two and knows they want to accumulate wealth, making a difference in as many people as possible, so everybody is moving up the scale of evolution at the same time, getting to do what they love doing in their own state of self-worth at that time.

34:08 Do you think of money as like energy in that sense? Because the way you’re talking about it sounds like that, whereas a lot of people who don’t understand money don’t think of it that way. It is a form of energy, because as Einstein’s saying, energy equals m plus or minus m c squared plus another factor, so it is interconvertible from a material form to another form. It starts out theoretically being some sort of currency in the form of, you know, rocks or pebbles or shells or something, and eventually it becomes, you know, cattle.

34:37 I guess that’s where we got the bull market, right? Capita, capita, right? And then you eventually go to something that is more like coins, and then it goes to paper, then it goes to plastic, and then it goes to electronics, and now it goes to photonics, and now it’s going into entanglement. That’s the next stage of money, where it’s purely manifested instantaneously through a quantum entangled connection. And so there’s an evolution to it from the most gross to the most subtle, from the most concrete to the most abstract, from that which is cumbersome and slow to that which is efficient, and it’s, we’re moving by my producer’s law to the most efficient system of expression.

35:10 And so money is a means of transactional fair exchange that are sustainable, and we accumulate money to the degree that we master true fairness and equity. If we’re exaggerating ourselves with pride, we don’t listen to our customers or employees, we eventually get backlash and it humbles us. If we’re minimizing ourselves, we sacrifice our profits and pay too much and have chaos. But if we find that balance and have an equanimity within ourselves, neither proud nor shame, but true to ourselves, and equity between ourselves with the reflective awareness of self and other, we have the most sustainable economics, the most sustainable socioeconomics, most sustainable physiology, every area of our life is mastered in that one state, and that’s the very spiritual calling that we have, the equanimity, but it’s also material mastery.

35:54 A lot of people think money’s bad and money’s dirty and money’s evil, but based on your explanation, it’s not, something it’s a perfect expression. That’s why I was saying transcending the moralities of money, you know, the fastest way to disempower people is to project onto people, uh, an idealism that’s incapable of being lived, creating a hypocrisy of disempowerment, and so the money circulates to the economy from those who have the least power, to those most, those have the least value on it, to those who have the most, just like people do that, and so it ends up in the hands who have project the values. And that’s the way they keep, in a sense, the money circulating back to them.

36:29 But the wise individual empowers themselves by caring enough about another individual to find out what their needs are and find a fair exchange with it. I had a young boy that was in South Africa and he attended a program that I did at the Westin Hotel Arabella at the Cape Town Waterfront. There’s about maybe 800 people there, he’s way in the back, I didn’t get to meet him that night, but he was there, and I did a presentation on personal, uh, perspectives on your own relationship to money.

36:59 And then I came back, that was September, and I came back in December and he comes back, he comes back to the program I did, and this time he comes up to me and he waits through all the pictures and signing of books and stuff at the end, he comes up to me and he stands there, he’s the last person, he’s 14 years old, and he says, he says, Dr Demartini, the hands, he hand shakes me and says, you inspired me. And I said, how, how so? He says, I came here in September and, uh, you inspired me to start to save money and start to think differently.

37:32 I said, great. He says, Dr Demartini, I, uh, I come from a family, I have nine brothers and sisters, I’m the oldest, I’m 14. My mother and father have died of AIDS and I run the family and I’m responsible for everyone, and I live in a little shack in Khayelitsha and it’s got little plastic on top of it, it leaks when it rains, we don’t have any water, electricity, but we’re close by the water and the latrine. And he says, but you told me that it’s not what happens to me on the outside, it’s what I decide to do with it.

38:00 I have control over my perception, decisions and actions, and I can take whatever happens to me and turn it into opportunity. Well, I started doing something different. I work in a little brick factory and I stack mud bricks and I get 60 cents a day, and I took 15, 15 cents to that and I paid a woman to take care of their brothers and sisters, but I started saving 15 cents a day and I’ve saved seven dollars and fifty cents equivalent of US dollars since I was here in September, and my goal is to have thirty dollars saved by next year and I’m gonna then buy a 200 house for my family that has a real ceiling and a real light bulb and it’s got water in it, and I want to, uh, I just want to thank you for that, and I want to inspire another thousand kids to do the same, to know that they can do it, because they’re dying and they’re not knowing they can do that.

38:46 So thank you for doing that. And when I thought about that, I actually went to see this house, I met him and I went to see it, I was in tears. I told him, I said, you inspired me, I didn’t inspire you, because you just did what most people never thought they could do and you showed what was possible. So it’s not what happens to you, it’s not what you’ve been through, not what you’re going through, it’s what you decide to do with what it is. You can be a victim of history or master of destiny by the way you perceive, decide and act.

39:11 That’s super powerful, and it’s interesting how you just broke that down, because I teach students and I find that on one side of the continuum, I had one student that felt bad about charging his clients for money and set up a charity and ended up becoming broke and got divorced on the back of it. And once I was like, if you provide a fair service and you charge people for that, you take that, you invest it and help more people, then you can realize everything you wanted. And he was like breaking down in tears because for most of his life he felt guilty about that profit.

39:40 I’ve also had students that just want to take all the money and give it to themselves and give a poor customer experience, and then they go, their business goes wrong, and I’m like, what are you doing? Unless you’re providing the value to others, there’s no way they’re going to come back and continue. Neither one of those are sustainable. Right, narcissism or altruism by themselves are incomplete, but the money is a beautiful feedback loop. It shouldn’t be looked at as something bad, something evil, something dirty, anything like that.

40:01 No, it’s a way of making the market sufficient. It’s exactly what it is, it’s forcing people to be authentic and learn how to be true to themselves and fair in exchange with other people, because that’s where you get rewarded. Yeah, it’s funny, um, you know, Bill and Bill and Melinda Gates have created a great foundation and they run it a lot like a company, and I think what makes them exceptional is because traditionally charities weren’t run like a company and they won’t run efficiently, like you said, like a corporation is.

40:29 And I think a lot of times it was waste, there was unaccountability and all that stuff, and people like, what are we doing here with this charity? And that’s a great example of something that’s not maybe, say, you know, subject to them. Just another article on Jet Set magazine about philanthropy, okay, and talking about how actually many of the philanthropic organizations are not actually as efficient as people imagine. They have these kind of ideas about what it’s going to do, but they find out sometimes 85 percent of the money goes to a telemarketing company, so you don’t find out the money actually goes what you think.

40:58 So I always say if you’re going to be philanthropic, don’t rob people of dignity, accountability, responsibility or productivity. Follow through on every dollar and find out where it actually goes and what it actually accomplishes, and look at the results. I think it was Andrew Carnegie that’s had that phrase, financial motive must prevail, and one of my mentors always says that, and everyone thinks it’s because he just is, all he just wants to be rich, but I just think it ultimately says that the humans ultimately want to be involved in something that’s sustainable, that obviously provides value, etc.

41:27 That’s what that means. The study of axiology, which is study of value and worth, which led to moralities and also economics, they come from the same thing. Goods and services are in both languages. If we look at the economics of that, look at it, Alfred Marshall said that every movement of any body of any human being is measurable economically. I did this yesterday for fun.

41:46 I said, how many of you smoke here? And only one person put their hand up in the whole room, which is pretty impressive. And I said, so you don’t smoke, and said, and how many of you don’t smoke, right? All the rest of you, I said, if I gave you a dollar to smoke a cigarette, would you do it? They go, you know, if I gave you five dollars, would just smoke a cigarette?

42:03 I go, no. Ten dollars, no. Fifty dollars, no. A hundred dollars, a thousand dollars. I kept going it up to find out where their level of, uh, incentives go.

42:12 And when it hit about a million, somebody said, I’d smoke a cigarette for one million dollars. And then some would go, no, I’d do it for 10 million. So I’m gonna do it if you gave me a billion dollars, I’d smoke a pack. And then I went to the guy that did smoke and I did it in reverse, and I said, if I gave you a ten dollars to not smoke a cigarette for the day, would you do it? He goes, no.

42:30 But I found out his price to not smoke. And so Marshall was saying that every movement is that way. And I had a lady that said, well, I disagree with you. I said, well, uh, you couldn’t, you couldn’t tell me that there’s a value on my children, you couldn’t tell me I’d give up my children for the amount. And I said, yeah, I can, as long as I, if I came up to your child and I said, I’d like to take your child and teach your child how to love you and appreciate you no matter what, could I borrow your child for one day to train your child and how to appreciate you?

43:02 For, I could have him for a day because, yes. And I’ll pay you a thousand dollars for the day. They go, okay. If I could train your child on how to empower all seven areas of their life, right, because if we don’t empower our life, if we don’t empower ourselves intellectually, be told what to think. We don’t empower ourselves in business, we’ll be told what to do.

43:18 Don’t empower ourselves in finance, will be told what we’re worth. Don’t empower ourselves in relationship, would be trapped. If we don’t empower ourselves in society, will be probably told propaganda that’s unreal. Don’t empower ourselves physically, be told what drugs are taking, what organs to remove. If we don’t empower ourselves spiritually, be probably caught in some dogma that’s antiquated.

43:34 So I said, if I was to take your son and I was to show your son how to be empowered in all seven areas, and I’ve got a whole week with him to train him how to do that and gave him an advantage, they wouldn’t do, and they gave you ten thousand dollars, could I have your son for a week? I go, yeah. And I kept adding more value in their values, and I got a woman to actually go, if you could give my child a better opportunity to get a greater life than what I can offer, then I’d give up my child.

44:01 And I guess I said, it’s all about value, and if you thought that I could do a greater job at doing what you were hoping for your child, you, as an act of love, would say please go here, because it will give a greater dependent, because I love my child. So there’s economics built in. There’s economics, social economics, as Proctor and others have described, are literally measurements of human motive, and that’s why you can determine on negotiations what that is, and if you stack up the benefits and communicate those effectively, the feature, the advantage, the utility, the service, the productivity to somebody else, and stack it up and present it in a beautiful way, the high, the fees go up.

44:39 That’s the way you present it, and if you meet their needs and you meet more needs, then you’ll get paid more. It’s that simple, and the money is just to quantify that. It’s a quantifiable, uh, it’s a quantifiable, uh, measurement of how effective you are at caring enough about a human being. I sit at a church one time, which didn’t go over well at first, and I didn’t ask me back to speak. I said, if you’re poor, you’re probably not caring about humanity, because you’re caring about humanity, you’re finding out what people are needing and going out of your way to find a fair exchange to help them get that, and do that in an incentive for you to continue to do that.

45:13 So if you don’t get anything in return, you’ll burn out and say that’s not working, but if you do something that’s fair, you’ll continue to want to do that and continue to grow that as you become more effective and efficient. And how did that go over? Well, at first they didn’t understand when I just said it, but when I explained it, a lot of people came up to me and said, now I understand. I did this little book called, you can have a, you know, How to Make One Hell of a Profit and Still Get to Heaven.

45:35 This little book, because there’s a lot of people that have a lot of guilt around money. Yes. And I wrote that book to try to solve that, and so a lot of people bought that book because they realized that they had been hoodwinked, in a sense, and ingrained that, you know, it’s more blessed to give than to receive. But the problem with that model, if it was more blessed to give than to receive, then the person receiving is cursed, right? But if a person’s in fair exchange, both people are blessed.

45:58 I’ve had people on my show that have said poor people are selfish, and, John, sometimes everyone freaks out, but then they go on to try to explain it, that the poor person is constantly talking about how poor they are, constantly talking about how bad things are, so again blaming others, they’re not actively adding value to anyone’s life, and they go on and on and on. And yet, like you said, we’ve been kind of taught that the poor people are the victims, and, you know, maybe Jesus was poor. Yeah, I don’t know, what do you hear when you see us here?

46:24 Well, uh, it’s a choice, it’s a value structure. Uh, if I’ve done value determinations for 42 years, and I’ve got a value determination I look at when I want to know what somebody’s values are, I look at how they fill their space, because things that are extremely valuable to them, they keep close to them, into their intimate personal space, not distal, they keep it proximal. Then I look at how they spend their time, they find time, make time, spend time on things they’re extremely valuable to them.

46:50 And then I look at what energizes them, because when they’re doing something, the time their values of energy goes up, and if they’re not doing it, that goes down, they’re drained. So if you’re living by high values, that your energy goes up, down lower values, goes down. Then look at how they spend their money, money they distribute their money according to what their values are. How could their values dictate to how they spend their money? Then I look at what they’re most ordered in and organized in, because that’s a sign of high value.

47:11 Then I look at where they’re most spontaneously disciplined, reliable and focused. Then I look at what they think about, visualize and internally dialogue to themselves about, about how they want their life, that is showing evidence of coming true. If there’s no evidence can’t be listed, then a look at what they want to converse with other people about most and bring the conversation to most spontaneously. Then I want to look at what inspires them and brings tears to their eyes, because that’s the thing, or what’s common to the people who bring inspiration to them.

47:36 Then I look at what the goals are that they’ve had that have been persistent, consistent, that get a result and actually getting results. And then I look at what they spontaneously can’t wait to learn, read, study or watch on videos, and there’s a common iteration in the answers. If you look at what shows up highest and in the priority list, it comes, you’ll get an idea what’s really most important, and their identity will revolve around it, their maximum learning will be around that, their teleological purpose will be an expression of that, and that’s an expression, and once we know what that is, we can start structuring our life through prioritization and delegation, the path of an inspired life.

48:10 How many people have that structure already in place? Well, there’s some do it, they find it by serendipitous, but in my Breakthrough Experience program, which I’ve taught now of 1090 one times, um, many, many countries, I do at my best to try to give as much information in a day. So I give them 26 hours in two days on how to do that, and it’s, to me it’s extraordinary, and watching the transformations, my gratitude journal today is as much my students’ information coming to me that comes in on a daily basis as much as my own gratitude, because the things I get to see them accomplish is very inspiring.

48:45 I can imagine and that thing that comes out, is that often the thing they want to be focused on, or is it often something they’re like, I don’t know why I keep focusing on that, or is it almost by definition important? Well, if they’ve been accustomed to subordinating and conforming, Ernest Becker wrote a book, The Denial of Death, and talked about conforming into the collective heroism instead of the individual heroism. If most people are subordinating to the world around him and leaving deontologically by duty instead of ontologically by mission, they’re automatically accustomed to clouding what’s really true to them and living in other people’s values without even knowing it, and setting up goals that are self-defeating because they keep distracting themselves onto what is important, but they’re not honoring it.

49:25 Right, but when an individual sets a priority that’s really clear, it’s true, wow, do they build momentum, they automatically have gained confidence, they automatically walk their talk, they automatically build expansion, they automatically realize that the natural emergence of a natural leader surfaces spontaneously when they’re authentic. Social media and the internet wasn’t around 20 years ago when you were off, when you were still touring the world doing this stuff. How has that affected everything that was already there with all of our other structures and programs?

49:54 Well, today we can sit in our, in my case, a hotel and reach millions of people in an hour sitting in a hotel room, and that wasn’t available. You would, it used to be that I, you know, the sage on the stagecon approach. Now we can sit there and reach literally millions of people. I did a show the other day, 52 million people, uh, live right there on the spot while I was in a hotel room in Florida, and I think that’s not, wasn’t possible, but now with social media and electronics and things, we can do things that we couldn’t imagine.

50:25 We can reach people and make a difference. There’s no human being, no matter where they are in the world, that can’t make the difference if they consistently and persistently focus on what’s priority and watch themselves emerge. The other problem is now though, you can conveniently compare yourself to everyone else, millions in the world, and maybe get sidetracked to that agenda, that agenda, that agenda. I mean, you go spend it flicking through Instagram and you’ll see someone with a better family and you a better body than you, more money than you, a greater purpose than you, a better TED Talk than you.

50:54 How does that infect society on the downside? Well, it’s not, it’s not the social media. You don’t want to blame the social media, social media is just a vehicle, right? It’s you, what you’re doing on the social media that matters. If you’re sitting there comparing yourself, you’re doing it just like if you were standing in front of a group and comparing yourself.

51:08 Right, that’s an unwise action, but that’s a natural thing to do on social media. Right, well, I don’t know, because I don’t do that. The only thing I put on social media is something that inspires people, and then I focus on what’s priority to me. I ask myself, I research, right, travel, teach, that’s it. I learned that a long time ago.

51:23 I went to Mary Kay Cosmetic Company in Dallas, Texas, and I spoke to 4,500 women there, and afterwards I got to meet Mary Kay Ash, and I asked her, I said, I walked up on this, looked like a queen’s chair, you know, I met her, and I said, what advice could you give a young aspiring speaker that wants to travel the world, this is about 35 years ago, and she said, very graciously, she says, every day write down the highest priority actions you can do today that will help you fulfill what’s most meaningful to you and a dream in your life, and then on the day make sure they’re in small bites, daily actions, and then go and do those and don’t stop till those are done, and if they’re done and they’re complete, add one more, but don’t go overrun by adding too many goals and feel self-defeated every day.

52:08 And I did that and I put them on index cards, little three by five index cards, and I sat there and I went into a gratitude exercise. I thought about what it was, I made sure I wrote things only down when I had tears of gratitude thinking about what I was grateful for, and I said, what are the highest priority actions I can do today to make the greatest difference and the most meaningful thing that would inspire me most in my life? And I wrote them out and I kept those in a box, the little cards, and then I went back and I went back through all the cards one by one and I wrote the seven things down, I tossed the card, took the next card, seven things down, and I started getting these line, line, lines, slash, line, line, slash, to look at what was the most frequent highest priority thing over a two-year period.

52:49 And then I realized it was research where I traveled to teach for me, and then I said, okay, then anytime I’m doing anything less than that, I’m devaluing myself, so I’m going to focus on that, I’m going to hire people around me, I’m going to delegate everything else, and I’m going to do what I’m here and called to do, what inspires me most. How else are you going to live an inspired life if you’re not doing the most inspiring things? And boy was that relieving and liberating, to give yourself permission to do what’s truly most inspiring, that you spontaneously can’t wait to get up in the morning and do tap dance to work, as Buffett calls it.

53:18 If you’re there, you’re in a, you’re in momentum and you’re you build momentum and you have a tremendous amount of energy. Energy is infinite once you recognize that source. How, what percentage of people are doing that today? Very few. One, the ones that I, the ones that I get across that message and they start doing it, they start building momentum, are growing.

53:35 Yeah, but yeah, there’s not everybody, most people are extra extrinsically driven. You know, a young boy in their highest value spontaneously loves doing their video games, but as they go down the value list, they require external motivation, punishment if you don’t do it, reward if you do. People who live by punishment reward, which is the most basic religious and political mechanism out there for the masses, they’re not going to go anywhere because they’re not going to be fulfilled, because they’re extrinsically driven all the time.

54:04 I said on The Secret many years ago, when the voice and the vision on the inside is louder and more profound than all opinions on the outside, now you’ve mastered your life, you’re beginning to master it. But most people are extrinsically driven in doing comparisons and they’re trying to avoid things and seek things, as the Buddhist says, the desire for that which is unobtainable and the desire to avoid that which is unavoidable is a source of human suffering. And so we’re constantly trying to avoid something that’s unavoidable and seeking some fantasy out there, which creates a nightmare instead of getting objective, realizing life has a pair of opposites, embracing the opposites, the hero and villain within us and around us, and getting on with doing something amazing, knowing that there’s going to be people supporting and challenging it, where it’s where, and that’s the path of maximum growth.

54:45 Right, so expect those day-to-day ups and downs, treat them all with a grain of salt, find your intrinsic higher purpose, ID easily three or four things. Yeah, and then do those as long as they, as long as they continue to be, because maybe those change over there, they can’t evolve, but you’ll get notice of that. Right, you’ll get, and do a real hard due diligence on them, like you said, into where, like, to where you feel the tears, you really emotionally connected.

55:07 If you’re not having a tear of gratitude on a daily basis, you’re not being yourself about what you want, about something, about your life, about your life, what you’re being, doing, having, everything. Right. I learned it many years ago, about 37 years ago, I was in practice at the time and, uh, I was speaking already, I was already doing that, but I always still wanted to know about the body, I want to inside and out, I want to take the gross anatomy down to all the way to the quantum level and know that in my mind, because that was an important part of my life.

55:33 But I noticed in my practice, when I’d have a really big day and see lots of patience and make good income and, you know, people going, oh, you’re amazing, and everything else, and get puffed up and get proud and cocky kind of thing and self-righteous, you know, and a facade of inflation of myself, I noticed when I would come home in that state, I’d get nailed by my wife. She just, she’d like, you know, just, and at first I thought she’s toxic, you know, everybody knows how great I am, why is it that she can’t see it? But I realized that she was doing exactly what I needed to get me authentic, and I wasn’t appreciating it initially, but I finally got it.

56:06 And then I noticed when I was really down and had a day, oh, what a day, which usually the day afterwards I would, uh, I would end up getting home and she’d massage me and she’d say, you know, you know you’re not that bad of a butt, you know, and the process of doing that I realized that nature was trying to get me back into authenticity. When I was proud, I wasn’t me, when I was ashamed, I wasn’t me, but when I was me, I had powers. So I started asking questions.

56:28 When I was really having a powerful day, what staff member did I not think, what procedure did I overlook, what client did I not think, what detail did I not do things, and I humbled myself with self-governance. And if I had a day that I was down, what did I accomplish, who did I serve, I asked about 25 questions that centered me, and when I centered myself, a tear of gratitude came, and then I would not go home until I had that. When I went home with that, I had this amazing loving wife sitting there and it was amazing.

56:56 It was almost like a quantum game going on, an entanglement game, she and I were entangled in some sort of a quantum field or something, and the second I was authentic, I got an authentic individual that was loving. And I learned that the person who governs themselves from within doesn’t have to be governed from without. Yeah, and the leader is the one who governs within, the followers, the people, have to be governed without. Is that the definition of leadership?

57:17 That’s leadership, one who can govern themselves. The executive center has a governing center, the executive center, which is a medial prefrontal cortex, has nerve fibers that go down into the amygdala, to the nucleus accumbens and striatum, and it sends GABA and glutamate and, you know, these transmitters down and it inhibits or stops the extreme polarities of infatuation, resentment and governance, like a motor, it governs the fuel source and stops you from the distractions of infatuation, resentments, so you can stay focused and empowered and momentum building, strategic, and that’s what leaders have, they’ve managed to kind of normalize. Leaders know what they’re going to lead.

57:54 I was speaking at a leadership conference and there’s thousands of people there, and I came down off the stage, which they said not to do because it’s being filmed, and I did it anyway, and I went down the stage because I want to be closer to people, because this big stage way up away from people, you know, and I’d like to be around, I’m sure you know what I’m talking about, you want to be where the people are. And so I came down the stage and I said, you’re here as a leader at a leadership conference, and I put somebody on the, again, the microphone, what are you here to lead? And they went blank.

58:21 I said, a leader would not have a hesitation, they would know what they’re here for. So if you’re going to be a leader, you need to get authentic, because it spontaneously comes out of you on what you want to do. There’s a fluency of the speech of what to say when there’s a congruency and clarity of the vision of what you want to lead, and if you have that, you got your leadership. So you’re living in a wannabe moment right now instead of actually doing what it takes to be the leader.

58:44 So we need to get really authentic, what’s really valuable to you and start prioritizing your life so that will emerge and get clear, because the executive center has an inspired vision and wakes that up the second you’re authentic. So it’s a real lesson to him and everybody else is like going, don’t come to me. But I was trying to make a point, but then we met somebody and I nailed him and he spit it out, he just came out with it like that, and wow, is inspiring.

59:09 And I said, can you see that the magnetism of the group around that individual, people want to get to know him? So that’s a magnetism of people wanting to do it. Why? Because innate within everyone there’s a calling to be authentic, and so whenever somebody sees somebody that is a leader authentically, a real walker of talker, that magnetizes people, places, ideas, opportunities to come to them to help them fulfill their innermost dominant thought. Right, and we see this when we see someone in a sporting arena that does something immediately, we’re drawn to them, they’re authentic in the moment in a place where you can’t hide being authentic.

59:42 You’re not cocky. When you ask them about their achievements, they thank the people that are involved, they’re not big, they’re not minimizing or exaggerating, they’re just being present, and there’s a natural appreciation, that individual, and there’s a respect. And when that leader couldn’t tell you right away, that wasn’t just a symptom, that was also the cause, because if you don’t have it, you don’t have a leadership, right? You don’t have the leadership and you don’t have all that stuff and that physiology happening with you.

1:00:04 But if you spend time clarifying that, you’ll start to prioritizing, prioritizing that. Yeah, then you’ll build the physiology of the leader. There’s a leader, and if people have asked me for many decades now, is a leader born, is it nurture, nature kind of thing, and the real truth is that some people get it really young and they build momentum. I’ve seen amazing things at young ages, six-year-old girls starting fashion companies, amazing things happening, but I’ve also seen people that didn’t think they had any leadership qualities at all.

1:00:29 We helped them identify their values, we helped them find out what it is, we started structuring and prioritizing and watch amazing leadership come out, amazing leadership. So it is definitely something that can be emerged in any human being if they start prioritizing and living congruently. Authentic, that’s a word that gets thrown around a lot these days, um, because people say it’s what resonates on social media, being authentic. Yes, but you’re saying it goes even deeper than that.

1:00:53 I mean, it sounds like that’s a lot of the work that you do. That’s exactly what I’m doing, that’s the, I mean, when I do the Breakthrough Experience, and my primary objective is to make it where you access that state so you don’t ever have to have motivation in the outside world again. But we’ve got these seven areas of, in our life that were probably been maybe brainwashed, is the wrong idea, I’ve been told a different way to think, that we might, might not be authentic in those, in our spiritual and our physical and all these things.

1:01:18 You know, if you fit in, you’ll never stand out, and if you fit in, you’re going to be stagnating in tradition and convention and some mother, father, preacher, teacher stage of a moral development, as Kohlberg says. But giving yourself permission to stand out and be the unborrowed visioner, as Imran says, you know, that is out there doing something that first gets ridiculed, then violently opposed, and then self-evident, that’s the difference. I was speaking in Rome, and, uh, afterwards I did the Breakthrough Experience here on the weekend, and then Monday, uh, I wasn’t leaving until late afternoon, so they asked the celebrity, the lady, asked if she’d like me to go on a little tour through Rome, and I said yes, absolutely.

1:01:57 And we’re going through Rome and we stop around lunch period and we have this little sandwich, and then we walk about a block or so, we come in this giant square, and it’s a, the whole square is roped off, it’s about the size almost like a soccer field, and it’s covered in red rose petals, thousands, millions of red rose petals, and in the middle of the square is a is a marble base with a bronze statue on it, and it’s Giordano Bruno, and general Giordano Bruno, 400 years earlier, would burn at the stake for declaring that we lived in an infinite universe with infinite worlds with infinite beings. At the time, the church was Ptolemaic and Aristotle in construct and believed that, you know, that the outer reaches of the Primum Mobile was the limits of our universe and the world was centered by the earth, and the church won control.

1:02:46 That’s why they called it universal or Catholic, and so they wanted to control that, and then anybody that would go outside that thing, they would constrain, so they put him in prison, and then they burned him at the stake for his heretics, and they’re about to burn him at the stake and they asked if he’d like to recant to save his life and be in prison. He says, yes, I would like to say something. So a young man comes running up there with a scroll, and if he says this and recants, he’s going to be freed, right?

1:03:10 He goes up, no, no, no, I don’t, I want to say something, but not this. And he basically says this, and I’m paraphrasing, I’ll bet your fear of lighting this torch is greater than mine in receiving it, for though you may destroy my immortal body, you’re going to release my teachings and release my immortal soul. So I have no fear of this passing right now, because I know what I know is true and someday it will be understood. So 400 years later they’re honoring him in the square for his ideas being 400 years ahead of his time.

1:03:42 And before he wrote, uh, that, uh, that before he actually was killed, he wrote a posthumous biography of how he wanted to be perceived 500 years in the future. And most people think, you know, we need to set goals, but most people claim that we’re immortal souls, but where are the people with immortal goals, goals that go way beyond their life, as Seneca said, you measure an individual by their most distant ends. So very few people have immortal goals.

1:04:07 So then when I got that and I had read his biography and his posthumous biography that night, I couldn’t help it, it’s like Jerry Maguire and Tom Cruise writing with tears in his eyes, I wrote out a 23-page posthumous biography of how I wanted to be perceived a thousand years from now, and I wrote it all out and I started reading it periodically. In 2009, which is nine years later, I was asked to speak at the Melk Abbey in, uh, in Austria, and there were 12 other speakers there, there was the Dalai Lama and some Muhammad Yunus and a bunch of people speaking there, and it was on solving world problems, right, and I got to be one of the speakers. And at the Saturday ritual, at the end of the speaking, when it was getting ready to complete, they lined up all the speakers in the Melk Abbey library and handed us a stainless steel cylinder with, in my case, uh, 365 of my quotations plus my Demartini Method on conflict resolution, which is what I was lecturing on, and put it in a stainless steel cylinder, air vacuum tight, and hand it to us, and then we went down in a pre-session down to the end of the library into the special vaulted room called The Infinity of Divinity Library room, and there’s this 12-foot Infinity of Divinity Library shelf, and we got to put our scrolls in there to be sealed for a thousand years.

1:05:22 And after writing the posthumous biography, I wanted to have my work be of such significance that it would be valuable even a thousand years from now, and I saw that and I got tears in the eyes because I realized that what I wrote as a goal beyond my life is already happening in my life. That’s deep, John. Should we all have goals like that? Well, I always say that, uh, the magnitude of space and time within your innermost dominant thought becomes the outermost tangible reality, and that’s the thing that determines your evolution of consciousness.

1:05:51 So if you’re looking for me to gratification and you’re shrinking your space and time horizons, you’re thinking just I want quick now, you’re thinking small and you’re living by your lower values and you’re in your animal nature. But as you start to living authentically, that space and time horizons expands and it starts geometrically progressing, literally mathematically, until it starts thinking in immortality and eternity, as Heraclitus that wrote about this back in his times 2500 years ago, it says that eventually you get to be the most authentic, which is really, as Schopenhauer says, if you become your true self to the degree that you make everyone else yourself, when you realize that there’s nothing out there but an expression and reflection of who you are, and you realize it’s all you, it’s just all a reflection of you, you’re what you project out there is you.

1:06:37 When you realize it’s all you, then it’s possibly infinite, and then when you do, you give yourself permission to set, in a sense, a magnitude of goals that goes beyond your mortal experience and your senses that limits you. So are we all one? Is it all one piece, is it all one energy at the highest level? You know, if we take a picture of you, um, Brian, if we took a picture of you in the, in the infrared camera, we’d see kind of a heat and aura around you.

1:07:01 If we took a picture in the visible spectrum, we’d see what we see with our eyes because that’s where it’s limited. If we took an X-ray, we’d see, you know, white bones, gray muscles and black lung fields. If we took a maybe a gamma picture of you, we’d penetrate you, we’d see maybe a little haze of the bones left, high gamma, mid gamma, we’d start to see nothing, we’d see no chair, the table starts disappearing, we go to very high gamut, penetrates everything in material, it goes right through the atoms.

1:07:27 If we go to really high cosmic frequencies, the highest level that there is in the electromagnetic spectrum, and even ones that go all the way into the nucleus, and even higher spectrums, we eventually see nothing existing and we have an infinite oneness. So at the highest level of abstraction and conceptualization, the highest level of frequency of awareness, where we are able to see the pairs of opposites synchronously, where there’s no duality in our perception, there’s an infinite oneness that we’re all connected on at the essence of being. But what we do is we get caught in our levels of awareness, differentiate and individuate and then use the law of similars and differences and judge people, and then get trapped in that being too proud to admit what I see in them is inside me, too humble to admit that what I see in them is inside me, and get into pride and humility and minimize and exaggerate ourselves and judge people with infatuation, resentments and get trapped in a whirlyberg, you might say, this whirly gerg of, uh, dualities and pairs of opposites, and we get trapped and then we don’t get to know who we really are, which is possibly the infinite.

1:08:27 It’s a very good answer for that. You mentioned conflict resolution, something you’re known for. Um, how did you stumble into that, and how did you decide to kind of separate that in what you teach, and what’s a good example of that? I know you have some good examples you talked about in the past, but how do you describe that to people? Well, when I was 18 years old, I, when I first started reading, because I had learning problems as a child, when I first started reading, my uncle, as a gift, sent two giant six by six by six foot wooden crates to our house on a flatbed truck filled with thousands of books, because I asked my mother right before, while I was 18 years old, she’d said, what do you want for your birthday?

1:09:03 And I said, well, I want the greatest teachings on the face of the earth, the greatest writings humanities ever created by the greatest minds who ever lived. And she said, you sure you don’t want a T-shirt? I said, no, I want the greatest writings. Oh, let me see what I can do. And you had been obsessed since you were younger, where you finally, because you were, you were young, you were in your teens, right, when you had a moment where you thought you were 17, when I met Paul Bragg, okay.

1:09:26 I didn’t know how to read until I was 18. Right, I had learning problems. Wow, so at that time I’m now learning how to read and I’m just wanting to catch up and read like, man. And earlier than that, you were told you had learning disabilities. Yeah, I would never be able to read, never be able to write, never able to communicate, and around the thing, never go over and far in life.

1:09:41 I had to wear a dunce cap when I was in first grade because I couldn’t read, like literally had to wear a dunce cap. Yeah, okay. Dell, Dell Rempel in myself, we had to face the window and look outside and just until we decided to learn how to read somehow, we had to wear a dunce cap, which I’ve turned now into a wizard’s cap. I think it’s a good thing. Okay, but do you treasure that experience, because these days you wouldn’t get the dunce cap?

1:10:01 No, they wouldn’t have it today. I mean, no, that was, if I didn’t have that, I wouldn’t be as committed to what I’m doing today. That’s the void that helped build the value. What does that say about how we raise kids today, are we, are we, are we being well, if we make it too easy on them, you know, we robbed them of accountability, responsibly, productivity and dignity. We need to be able to give them accountable.

1:10:18 My dad, when I was, uh, nine, I had to do, uh, I had to have a little company and I was doing landscaping and he made me pay seven dollars and fifty cents a week to pay and living for home, clothing, food, etc., and by the time I was, you know, nine, I started riding my bicycles 35 miles, 12 hours, hopping trains to cities, 13 I started hitchhiking the different cities, 14 I hitchhikes across America down to Mexico. I was an adventurer because he made me accountable young, because he knew I wasn’t going to make it in academics. He wanted me to read street smart, and I’m very grateful for that, because I didn’t have the learning process, I just had how did, how to function out there in the world.

1:10:54 So he made me do jobs in the neighborhood to make sure I was able to be self-sufficient. So maybe not as much accountability as we need today. Yeah, that was a little bit more, maybe. Right, but do you think we’re lacking it today? Yeah, I think a lot of kids are spoiled and they end up having bullies to try to wake them up, okay, because that’s because accountability will happen, structured or not.

1:11:13 Yeah, it’s going to happen, but it’s wiser to have it with a little incremental growth than it is with a cataclysmic event. Okay, but I am now sitting there and my uncle sends all these books here, and I started to read this one book by Leibniz, Godfrey, who obliveness, who’s the also the founder of the calculus, like Newton, and, uh, he wrote a book called The Discourse of Metaphysics, and in there it had a theological background, and he said there’s a divine perfection, a divine beauty, a divine love, a divine magnificent, a divine order in the universe that few people ever get to know, but those that do, their lives have changed forever. And when I was reading that, I got tears in my eyes, and whenever I get a tear in the eye when I’m reading something, I document what it is.

1:11:49 I want to know what’s in my mind, because there’s something there that’s special to me. It’s like on track with what my mission is. And I said, I want to know what that is and I want to find a way of helping people get that, and I want to find a way of disseminating that so people can get a glimpse of that, an F transformation in their life. So the Demartini Method, the conflict resolution process, is what emerged out of that experience. And then I read Paul Dirac’s book.

1:12:12 My uncle was a physicist from MIT and he sent Paul Dirac’s book, a 1930s book on quantum physics. He was the founder of particle, nanoparticle theory, and so I had his dictionary outright, every word I’m looking up, because I didn’t know what these words meant, and I finally learned how to read his books with a dictionary, which is a very inspiring, and he said that you take a particle and an anti-particle, positron, electron, emerging together, you make light. And in my mind I thought, well, in my naivety, I thought, I wonder if you took positive, negative emotions and merge them together synchronously, could you make enlightenment?

1:12:43 And I just use it as a metaphor, but I turned out in my method, the Demartini Method, it turned out to be accurate, and it’s amazing what happens when all of a sudden we find the synchronous, as Carl Jung says and Fritz Perls says, the synchronicity of pairs of opposites at the same time. As I do that in my program, the Breakthrough Experience, I have people have tears of gratitude and they feel love for their life and they feel there’s a hidden order in their chaos and they feel inspired by what’s happening, and the thing that they thought was a victim of history now becomes something that they feel grateful for, and they’re now ready to be a master. And I love helping people get that, that’s what my method’s about, the conflict resolution process, because the conflict is never on the outside, it’s on the inside.

1:13:22 So if you’re having conflict between pride and shame and not being authentic, it’s going to manifest by projecting onto others and expecting them to live in your values, or it’s going to expect you to live in other people’s values, which are futile and a sense fatal. Interesting. Can you give an example of walking someone through a conflict resolution? Yes, I, I was having the opportunity to work with an Israeli leader and a Palestinian leader sitting across the table in front of each other, and they both hated each other.

1:13:47 And you were working with both of them? Yeah, okay. And so this Israeli leader comes to me and she says, she says, um, Dr Demartini, do you believe in absolute evil? And I said, absolutely not. I said, that’s a human interpretation of a misinterpretation of the magnificence of our universe.

1:14:04 And I said, so what do you believe is absolute evil? She says, do you know of anybody that’s absolutely evil? She says, yes, I do. And I said, you don’t have to tell me who it is, but just hold that in your mind, who that person is, what individual do you believe it has absolute evil. She has it and she’s proud and she’s thinking down on that person, and I said, now what specific trait, action or inaction do you perceive this individual displaying or demonstrating that you perceive as absolute evil that you dislike or resent most?

1:14:34 And she said, intolerance. And I’m thinking, is she not seeing what she’s doing right now? She’s being intolerant, she’s not even seeing her own reflection. But she didn’t, and I said, okay, great. And I said, now go to a moment where and when you perceive yourself displaying or demonstrating that same or similar specific trait, action or inaction, intolerance, as you perceive in this individual that you despise most, that you think is absolute evil.

1:14:56 And she says, I don’t do that. I pride myself in never being intolerant. I would never be that way, everybody knows I’m the opposite of that. And I said, well, everybody has every trait, and my observation of human behavior that I’ve been studying now for 47 years. So let me give you examples of when I’ve been intolerant.

1:15:13 When I go to the grocery store, I go to the airport, sometimes I’m intolerant. I go and I start thinking, I start just sharing all my intolerances with her, because anything you can’t own in your life is a button push that somebody else is going to grab and run your life with. So I shared with her just example after example of my intolerance of various extremities, and she goes, okay, well, yes, there’s some over here. And then when I got 31 intolerances out of her, until she finally realized that she was his intolerance as that individual, quantitatively and qualitatively, until the field was leveled, and then she sat there a little bit more humbled, and I said, now go to the moment where and when you perceive this individual displaying or demonstrating that specific trait, intolerance.

1:15:55 You there? Great. Close your eyes, go there. Where are you, when are you, who are they demonstrating it to and who’s perceiving it? You there?

1:16:04 Okay, now in that moment and from that moment till today how is that serving you? It says not. I said, no, how’s it serving you? And she couldn’t come up with any. And I said, you’re a professional in your field, you’ve written books, you’re known in your area, you’ve mediated things, you’re dealing with conflict resolution, you’re a noted person, you’ve got thousands of followers, you’ve met leaders of the world.

1:16:27 If there was no conflict with this individual that you’re talking about, would you be where you are today? And she just paused and stared and you could just process that. I said, don’t you need him for you to be you? And she goes, she looked at that and she goes, couldn’t argue with it. I said, without the villain, there’s no hero.

1:16:46 And are you sure now that you thought he was evil, now you’ve owned the trait, is it not possible that other people perceive you the same way in different formats? And I said, and if it wasn’t for him, could you have achieved what you do, and are you truly a leader, or are you following a bunch of angry people at this individual and just exploiting those people are angry for your own gain? Are you really being a leader or you actually, because if you’re really leading him, you spent 14 years without mediating anything, but you’ve been a hero, because if you really were a leader, you would be actually mediating this thing and leading people to a new paradigm.

1:17:21 I said, so are you sure you’re a follower, you’re a leader? And I really confronted her, and she just sat there and humbled herself and she got tears in her eyes and she said, I never even thought about that, but the truth is, if he wasn’t here, I wouldn’t have been driven, I wouldn’t have had my drive, I wouldn’t have my clarity, I wouldn’t have my push to study and learn, I wouldn’t have had my speech, I wouldn’t have had my following, I wouldn’t had the influence, I wouldn’t have met all the people, my all seven areas of my life, my fortunes and everything came from that villain. And I said, right now when you think about them, do you believe he’s absolute evil?

1:17:57 Because if he’s had led to you to do all the things you do, then if you’re doing something you think has got benefits to you, then you’d have to say that’s a derivative from that. Are you sure it’s absolute evil? You, and she just said, no. I said, so you started with the idea that is absolutely evil, but at the end you realize that it wasn’t, it’s neither good nor evil, it’s just a misinterpretation by people who are too narrow-minded to see the whole picture.

1:18:19 And she just looked at me and she goes, wow, I need to take a break. And she processed that, and then the guy that she was labeling came up to me and he said, Dr Demartini, that was like mind-blowing, I could have sworn you were that lady, lady was talking about me. I said, she was. And she says, I thought the same thing about her, but right now I’m actually not angry with her. And she came back to me and she says, that is really, I went to the bathroom and I started crying.

1:18:46 She said, because I just, you just nailed me. And I said, great, that’s my purpose. You’ve asked me to help you, this is what I’m telling you. I can’t be nice to you and be appeasing to you, I have to be truthful to you. So then the next time I came back to this location, she asked me to go on the radio show, and out of her wisdom and humbleness, she went on the radio show and shared her whole journey of how she was basically exploiting and how she was actually now now ready to be a leader.

1:19:12 Wow, that was really powerful. And she says, now I’m on a mission to reflect and own the traits and not be so deflective and proud and self-righteous, which will never get mediation, right? You’ll never get mediation by being right, you’ll be mediation by opening your heart to life. I was trying to ask, what is the solution to that situation? I guess it is, like you said, to actually lead the mediation effort and not be caught up in.

1:19:36 Well, anything that you’re judging on the outside reflects the thought. You never resent somebody on the outside unless they represent a part of you that you’re ashamed of on the inside. That’s always true. Every case, I mean, I’ve been doing the DMR team method for many, many years, 36 years of clinical, and I’ve yet to see that not true. So anytime you hate someone or they bother you or anything, it’s reminding of you of a part of you, of a part of you that you have or don’t have, you’re too proud to admit you have it, but you have it.

1:20:02 Sort of, okay. And I’ve done that on thousands and thousands, I mean hundred thousand cases, and they’ve seen this, and it’s really quite funny, because everybody wants to be living and hypocritically and this ideal social ideal of one-sidedness and proud, and our animal nature wants to be proud and infatuated with things, but our angelic nature, our truest nature, wants to see both sides and embrace both sides and love things. It’s a yearning for love.

1:20:26 It’s the greatest growth factor and the greatest powering factor, and gratitude is the key that opens that up, and you’re not going to be grateful until you see both sides of things. If you’re infatuated with somebody, you’re conscious the upside, you’re unconscious the downside, you really don’t know the person and you can’t really love them. You can be dopamine driven and infatuate and romantically passionate towards, like an animal, but you don’t love them.

1:20:44 When you’re resentful to somebody, you’re too proud to admit it, you’re conscious the downsides, not conscious the upsides, and you’re now exaggerating you and minimizing yourself, the minimizing your downsides and exaggering the upsides, you’re not being you, they’re not being them, and you’re projecting on them, and neither one of those are empowering, because they’re now occupying your life and you’re externally driven and you’re not intrinsically called. And the second you equilibrate that, bring those into balance, you’re poised, you’re present, you’re purposeful, you’re powerful, you’re prioritized, and you’re in a sense present with life, and man, what a magnificent life has to offer then. Such a powerful message, John, and I keep thinking the evacuation is one we see a lot today, but the other ones, when we say is, well, that evil person, that bad person, but does that person, bad person, get you to work harder, does it get you to do this, is it all of those things?

1:21:30 No, you never think about it. You need, you need maximum growth occurs at the border of chaos, in order, support and challenge, uh, praise and reprimand, and as long as you’re addicted to praise, the reprimand is going to hurt, but the reprimand is needed because the praise puffs you up into some inauthentic state, and the criticism brings you back down into the authentic state. You need both of those simultaneously. And what I do is I teach people what I call the Great Discovery, that in every moment that somebody’s challenging and criticizing you, if you get present and get where it was, when it was, what it was, context, and look exactly who it was to you, you’ll find at that exact moment there’s a magnificent synchronicity of compromy opposites in the awareness of the mind, a memory and anti-memory are there and the opposite is there, and when they see it, they go, my God, I didn’t see that, I was conscious of one and I had an emotional reaction, or I was conscious the other and I had most reaction.

1:22:19 When I see both of them, I’m poised, and all of a sudden I realize the universe is trying to get me authentic, either at physiology, psychology, sociology or theological, sociological systems are trying to get us authentic, and the events in our life are actually trying to keep us centered, but we don’t see it because we get addicted to one-sidedness. Right, you mentioned love and infatuation, let’s talk about that, because I think somewhere you wrote that if you love someone and then they go, they go away and you miss them, that’s not love, that’s infatuation. I’ve developed since 1984, I’ve taken 3598 people through the grief process.

1:22:55 Now we just did a study at Kale University in Japan on it, we got 100 track record on it, and it’s, uh, it’s amazing, because I found out that people don’t agree the loss of someone who’s loved, as much as that’s so, so commonly thought, it’s, I mean, it’s just standard thinking process. You only agree the loss of the things that you infatuate in the individual, and I proved that so many thousands of times. My students and I’ve taught, I’ve taught six thousand people to do the same thing and they’re using it and they’ve seen the same thing.

1:23:23 We’ll use this recent thing with Trump, right? Trump goes out and he gets his team over there and they knock out this Iranian, uh, general, right? Yeah. Now over on the American side, they’re celebrating because they got rid of the villain. Over on the Iran side, they’re celebrating, or they’re not celebrating, they’re mourning the, the hero that’s now down.

1:23:40 So here’s an individual that’s a hero and a villain, and two different groups seeing them differently. A million people come out to say thank you for this one, and a million people come out and go, yes, good on you. And so here’s two poles of the thing, with support and challenge around one individual. So if all of a sudden you’re infatuated with the individual, like in there they’re mourning a loss, if you resent the person, you celebrate the loss, but if you actually love the person, neither of those are there, there’s just the presence of the individual.

1:24:08 So what I do is I ask people, okay, go to the moment where and when you discovered this individual has just departed and they’ve now deceased, okay, there, okay. What specific trait, action or inaction do you perceive this individual displaying or demonstrating that you admire most and now missed most, because they never miss the things they despised, right? They never go oh, I miss his yelling, I miss it. They never grieve any of those on the grief list, I guarantee you, you’ll never see those.

1:24:36 I’m thinking about Kobe Bryant as well, because a lot of people mourned his loss. So say people are thinking about this right now and they would think, oh, is his resilience all the things they admire? Yeah, all things in Mario. Yeah, if they actually got to know him, both sides, the parts they didn’t like, they don’t miss that, but they don’t know them, they only know the stuff that’s in the media. Right, the positive side.

1:24:55 Correct. So what happens is if you go in there and identify what that trait is and make a list of everything that they think they’re missing, I can prove to you and show to you that the only thing a list of the things that they admired that stimulated support of their own value structure that released dopamine, oxytocin and keflons, endorphins, vasopressins, serotonin and estrogen. Those compounds go up, particularly oxytocin and serotonin and dopamine, they go up when their values are supported, and so the second you had withdrawal, you have the same withdrawal symptoms of drug release, same exact symptoms, because you’re now infatuated with that person and fear the loss of that.

1:25:29 We only feel the loss of that which we seek and infatuate with, and we only fear the gain of that which we resent, but we never feel the loss of that which we resent, and we never fear the gain of that which we seek. So that stress, distress, is nothing more than the perception of loss of that which we seek and the perception of gain of that we’re trying to avoid. That’s the only two forms of stress we’ll ever have in our lives, ever, ever. Right, everything boils down to those two things.

1:25:51 So the second, identify what that thing that they’ve lost, the things they infatch it with. I then ask a question after I’ve listed it, and there’s average on death is 10 things. That’s the average, the most I’ve seen is 26, the least I’ve seen as forts, 10 things that they’re infected with. There’s not everything about them, it’s just that, but they claim it first, oh, I miss everything about them. No, you missed those 10 things, and then we go in there and such.

1:26:13 So the moment those that individual passed, who emerged around you, one or many, male or female, closed or distant, virtual or real, who emerged around you with those traits? And to their mind is blown, they realize that they or others pick up those traits and started showing those behaviors around him, as if there’s some sort of conservation of energy and information, a unitarity principle, and then go, whoa. And I make them do it until it’s quantitatively equal to what the individual was, and I can do that, I do it every single week.

1:26:40 Does it take time from the death to what happens? No, no, that’s happening right there, this is a two-hour process. Map, okay. But I mean from when the person died to when they can have a fresh death right there on that day, or they could have it 10 years earlier, it doesn’t matter, and you’re honest, they’re irrelevant. Okay, and you’re asking in the last hour that you found out they died?

1:26:57 I had people have deaths in the program, their father commits suicide, the lady was on my seminar and was on the telephone, her dad committed suicide right there. We did it right then, we brought it right up there on the front, did it right then, and you said who has, who in this room is now merging those behaviors? And what was interesting, that particular case, her father committed suicide, the man she picked for a surrogate role at the end, because I do a certain role, was a gentleman that worked and flew for Continental Airlines and got laid off three days earlier and had told his wife that morning, I’m a pilot, I’m old, I won’t be able to get a job, if I can’t fly, I don’t know who I am and I want to commit suicide.

1:27:34 And she picked him out of the room, and that was exactly what he needed to hear, that dialogue, to keep him alive. 22 more years he lived, and that was the synchronicity of the room. So it shows up immediately once I identified the actual new form quantitatively, we then go and find out what’s the downside of the original behavior, because if you’re infatuated, you’re conscious of the upsides but you’re unconscious downside, they’re there but you’re not looking, right?

1:27:59 You’re blind, just like if you go out on a date and you’re really infatuated with a girl, there’s downsides and your intuition is trying to whisper them too, but you’re blind, you’re impulsive, and you’re letting your animal nature go for that passion, right? And then you discover the Fatal Attraction, like Michael Douglas, and then you find out, oh my God, she’s a psycho, right, she’s crazy. So the person that just died, you have to list the downsides, then you get the downside to the traits that they’re infected with until it’s balanced.

1:28:23 Okay, and what will some of those be like? Grandpa was also a jerk, your grandpa was also grumpy. Uh, well, the one we just had yesterday, because we just did it the brakes, we do it every breakthrough, we demonstrate this every breakdown, okay. The one yesterday was, I’m missing my mother, she just side, right, just a few days ago, and then says, well, she controlled me, she dominated me, I suppressed myself in that situation, I wasn’t really doing what I wanted to do, and the other side was hidden in there, right there, there’s a, there’s a unconscious side.

1:28:48 So I go in there and I don’t want him to make anything up, I just want them to look, and when they look they go, whoa, there’s another side. And when I bring the downside and in equal to the upside and perfectly balanced, they can’t grieve. If I go too far, now they’re relieved. If I go to, if it’s just balanced, there’s they feel the presence of the person and their heart opens, because a perfectly colorbraided mind opens the heart. And I go down one by one through that process, the longest it’s ever taken is three hours.

1:29:18 I tell people that no human being has to grieve more than three hours ever again on this planet with this tool now, but it usually takes about an hour and a half to two hours. And when I go through this process step by step through all the lines, when they’re done, they can’t grieve, they just cannot grieve, they do not feel lost, they feel the presence of the person, they find somebody in the room that they want to share their thank you and love while they’re alive and honor their passing, because when you pass, do you really want people grieving over your loss? No, you want them to live their life to the fullest.

1:29:46 Yes, so what happens is these people are sitting there grieving because of social stuff and belief systems, because the Greeks grieve for two years and Central American people, they celebrate and have a party over death, they see a freedom of the spirit. So different cultural beliefs have different ideas about death, and it’s all available to us if we ask the questions and balance it, we feel presence, love of, and we get on life and we honor the individual and we honor both the life and the death. Do you feel grateful, or you don’t want any big emotional spikes either?

1:30:14 That’s the wrong, all you have is tears of gratitude, you feel their presence, you have love for them, and you realize there’s no mistake, it’s all in order. Okay, you honor them for what they contributed and now that they’ve passed, even their passing, even their passing, you honor that as well, and then now you are flat? No, no, not flat, you’re grateful, you’re grateful, grateful for their passing and their life, their passing and their life, because who are you to judge when they’re supposed to go and how they’re supposed to go, it’s just a, your own illusion.

1:30:40 Right, and you prove this with your own wife when she died. Yeah, when she passed away 15 years ago, I did it as she was fading. She had cancer, we found out in October, uh, I was, we were living on the ship The World and, uh, we’re in Venice, Italy, and I had to go fly over to a Mojave Desert for the launch of SpaceShipOne because I was involved in this X Prize. And so I met the Mojave Desert there, launching SpaceShipOne, right, with Richard Branson and then Peter and others and, uh, she ends up having her back to tight, she ends up going and flying over to the Gold Coast of Australia, where we had some homes, and she decides, uh, you know, I’m not feeling well.

1:31:19 So she checks in and finds out her calcium levels are up and she finds out she’s got osteo, uh, clastic back activity going on in the inner spine from a breast cancer she didn’t know, and two months later she’s passed. So as she’s fading, all the traits that I’m perceiving is no longer there, her normal behaviors, I’m doing the methadone and clearing it as we went down the line, so when she’s actually passing I have a loving presence with her and it was really amazing process. So then I end up four days later, I get on the Woman’s Weekly magazine, want to do an interview about her life, and the lady was infatuated with her, so she’s grieving, having difficulty doing the interview, so I had to take her through the process so she could complete the interview, and at first she thought, he doesn’t seem to have grief, and I said, well, I know I have love when you failed love, you feel the presence of the person and you’re not feeling a loss, you feel their presence as if they’re here.

1:32:08 And she goes, when I took her through the process then she felt that, and then she goes, wow, I’m not grieving. I said, no, because I’ve got you actually in a state where you’re seeing both sides of the person. Nobody’s one-sided, everybody has two sides. When you infatch with them, you’re blind to the one side, and if you’re resentful, you’re blind to the other. But when you see them as they are, you see them from both sides, and every human being wants to be loved for both sides, they want to be loved for who they are in total, not one-sided.

1:32:34 And our society is so frightened of that that it wants to be in, you know, infatuated and wants to be proud, and so it puts on a facade of hypocrisy and stops itself from being the hero and the villain, the saint and the sinner, the nature of the two sides, the virtue and the vice, which we all have. If we actually filmed ourselves 24 hours a day, every day of the year, but we don’t want to put, we don’t want to show that, because of our fears of rejection by the conformity. Yeah, and what did your wife say to you in those last few weeks?

1:33:01 How did she deal with that while you’re dealing with this? For the last six weeks we had this amazing, tear-jerking, heart opening moment where the doctor was sitting there at the foot of the bed and I was sitting on the edge of the bed and she was propped up in the bed, and, um, I grabbed her hand, we were holding hands, and she said to me, she said, you know, we’ve climbed the mountains of the Himalayas and the Andes and the Rockies, we’ve met with royalty, we’ve done books together, we’ve been in movies, we’ve met amazing people around the world. I just want to thank you for being my Starman.

1:33:34 Because she was Athena star woman, and I was in tears when she said, and I said, I want to thank you for being my star woman. And we just had this amazing, it’s not dripping moment of gratitude for each other for having the opportunity. We had the time together for 14 years, and, uh, when we did the last thing she said, it’s, uh, now time for you to find you a nice young New Star Girl, because your star woman is going to pass on. And now the farthest thing from my mind is that somebody else in your life, that’s not what you’re thinking about that moment, but I remember her saying that, and, uh, because she really wanted me to not be alone, she wanted me to move on and do it all my life, I would want the same for her if I was passing, I want her to live her life to the phone.

1:34:20 So she said that, it just kind of lingered in my mind. And when she did pass, um, the next day they announced on Bloomberg, Fashion Television Network, and CNN, anything on this little stick Tickler, right, that she’d passed. Yeah, and I got 8,000 emails that next day, and I was answering emails sitting there, and a few weeks later goes by and all of a sudden I’m having to speak in Las Vegas to about 8,000 doctors, and I’m signing books for three and a half hours afterwards, just massive lines, 1700 people in line, and I’m sitting there going, this is nuts.

1:34:50 And finally this, I, you know, when you get that size of line, you don’t look up to people because they’ll tell you their story, right? You just, you look down in your name please, and they just kind of organized with people, and all of a sudden I said, in your name please, and this lady comes up with his hat on, dressed in a Vogue outfit, because my wife wrote for Vogue, and she says, Star, and I went and I looked up and there’s this beautiful girl there, and I said, is that your actual name? She says, yes, that’s my name and my mom’s name.

1:35:17 And I went, wow. And so I said, um, do you, can you stick around here? I’d like to chat with you. Well, I came here to meet you. You came here to meet me?

1:35:27 And she said, yes. Are you not a doctor here? Says, no, I flew him from Houston. I said, how did you, what made you came here? Well, I met a guy named Harley who said he used to live in a tent with you in Hawaii, and I wanted to be a speaker and he said if you want to be a speaker, go meet this guy D Martini, and so I flew here to meet with you, to meet you, and Simon lime for all this time waiting to meet you.

1:35:50 And I said, well, I’m in Houston periodically, why don’t we meet in Houston? And in April I had lunch with her, and then in July I had another dinner with her, and then in September I had another lunch with her, and by then, uh, you know, I’m, she had been was dating a guy and broke up with him, it was a Sir Robert who was neither by the Queen of England, she was a very cool, cool lady, and she was now available, and I said, would you like to go to Australia with me? And she goes, yes, I would.

1:36:16 I said, well, I’m leaving in like in hours. So off she went, we went out to the Gold Coast of Australia, where I had this beautiful place, we walk up into this place, we had the top two floors of this place, and we walked into the bedroom, and I had not been to this house of ours since she had passed, so it’s awkward wanting, walking in a room with another woman into a woman where your wife passed away, very awkward, it felt a little odd, felt like the presence of my life, and we walk in there and she, when we go into the bedroom, I go in and put my toiletries up, she goes into the closet, I come back out, she’s sitting on the bed, and I said, are you okay? She looked like she’d seen a ghost, and I said, are you okay?

1:36:54 And she goes, yeah, I just need to sit here. I sat down next to her, I said, what happened? And she says, when I went into the closet, I saw 13 pair of shoes and six outfits that are identical to mine, the same size, exact outfits. And I went, I sat on the table, the bed, I said, you serious? You sure?

1:37:14 I said, that’s hard to believe, because my wife only bought boutique things in rare places around the world, and she’s sailing around on the ship The World. And she said, no, well, I lived with Sir Robert on the Queen Mary, whatever, and we traveled around the world and we’re probably in the same ports and I got them in the same places. And I thought, wow, that’s a synchronicity, and I almost felt like my wife was saying, it’s time to find you a nice young star girl, and I ended up meeting a Star.

1:37:38 So I dated her for seven and a half years. So these synchronicities in life, I believe, when you’re living congruently and authentically and you’re living in a sense where you’re inspired by what you do, the magnitude and the multitude of synchronicities and opportunities emerge geometrically in your life, which feeds the powerful reasons for being grateful on a daily basis. I think you’re right, in the last eight years I’ve been being very authentic as to what I’ve been doing with this whole program and I’ve seen more synchronicities in eight years than 40 years before that.

1:38:11 Exactly. And now I just kind of laugh, I chuckled to myself, it’s part of the daily life, it’s just like, how that happened, how did this person come here, how did this, well, this is crazy, this doesn’t make any sense. And I’m an engineer by training, and so finally I decided to stop trying to quantify it, and I just now, this is part of the engineering process, if you continue to live in this way and you continue to put out this good energy and you continue to continue to do the things with a higher purpose, then great things are going to happen to you, and that now that just seems to be true.

1:38:39 Well, whatever’s highest on your family value emerges as your innermost dominant thought. Your innermost dominant thought becomes your outermost tangible reality, because your thoughts become things. In that respect, but no one ever taught me that in school, John, why? I guess it was, they were promoting the drones working for others. Yeah, those drones.

1:38:54 Uh, the ship of the world, tell me about this, what is it, when would this create itself, and I mean this is unique to you, right? Yeah, well, I don’t know about unique completely, but in 1999 I was in New York and I was reading the Robb Report of the magazine, yeah, and it had a little ad about this worldship, right, this condominium ship where people lived on, and they were building it, it wasn’t made yet, it wasn’t completed, and I thought, wow, that’s cool, and I ripped it out of the thing, and I thought that matches me because I’m full-time traveling around the world. And at age 20 I started an affirmation in my head that the universe is my playground, the world is my home, every country is a room in the house and every city is a platform to Sherman heart and soul, and I’ve been saying that every single day since age 20.

1:39:35 I’m going on 66 now, so I’ve been doing that a long time. Wow. And so all of a sudden this is going to my head and I see this thing and I told my wife about it and I thought this is cool, but only 27 occupancy rate, so I thought that’s a little risky buying that and not knowing if it’s actually going to go all the way to fruition, I think I would wait till it’s about 70 or 80 percent full. But I kind of kept it and folded up and just kind of forgot about it, and about a year and a half goes by, two years almost, and I’m in Australia, and my wife had a friend who had a travel agency, and they were talking and her former husband, uh, named Mike, uh, had bought on the ship and he had bought two apartments on the ship.

1:40:17 He was a very well-off gentleman and he, uh, he was there in town, and my wife said, you remember that ship? My girlfriend said her former husband just bought two apartments, and he’s in town, would you like to chat with him? I said, absolutely. So he went to dinner that night right away and I asked every question and due diligence that I could ask that I was concerned about, even remotely, and he went over there to Norway where they were building the ship in Durango and looked at the details to make sure this is truly illegit and it’s going to flow, and, uh, after talking to him I realized, done, the next morning as an anniversary present I bought the ship for my wife, and, uh, well, my condo on the ship.

1:40:56 So we buy the ship, this is right after 9/11, because when 9/11 occurred we were living in Trump Tower and they weren’t allowed to go into the tower at 9/11. So my wife literally got a helicopter and got out of there, went to Gold Coast, so that’s why she was there. Okay, and, uh, so we, she didn’t really want to be in New York for a while because there’s kind of strange energy after 9/11. And the ship was perfect because she loved traveling but she didn’t like the airports and stuff.

1:41:20 She like just, I mean, on the ship you wake up in a different city than you go to bed in. Hamburg, you wake up in Amsterdam, kind of thing. Yeah, or you go to, you go, you wake up in London after being in Scotland or something. And so what happened is we bought on there and it wasn’t quite ready, it wasn’t launching until about now, this time of year, and right early 2002. And we went to Norway where the inaugural launch was going to be, and there’s a big event, two million people came out for it, it was amazing, because there’s a first in history of this type of ship, which is purely residential.

1:41:53 The Queen of Norway was there, I mean, an amazing thing. And the night before this big gala, black tie affair with a very quality people, of amazing people that were really influential there, uh, the captain got up in front of the group and dang the little glass and said, may I have your attention. And then he all of a sudden he has a slideshow thing and he says, at one time they believed he had a Viking beard, and he says, at one time the world was perceived as flat and you can walk and fall off, and then eventually they realized that it was looked like a sphere, but this has been believed until now, but the true image of the world is this, and up comes the ship.

1:42:37 And then he says, this is your new home. The universe is your playground, the world is your home, every country is a room in the house. And when he said that, tears poured out of my eyes. I looked to my wife and she looked at me and she goes, are you kidding? That is exactly the words that I had said since age 20.

1:42:58 And when I was there I said, I’m home. Wow, and I knew that the world was home. I set out when I was 17 to step foot on every country in the face of the earth. I’m at 155 in a couple weeks, countries in the world, and I wanted to go to everyone, and I thought this is the most efficient way, I get to every country anyway, and I will speak in every country, I made that commitment, but that allowed me to do that, and that was amazing, and it’s truly amazing, a thing of the most amazing people, and they do some of those amazing adventures.

1:43:27 We’ll go to the Antarctica, we’ll go to Borneo to meet with Jane Goodall with a fine, the primates, we’ll go the great passage, you know, it goes in adventures around the world with amazing people and doing things. We have Nobel Prize winners that come on board to lecture to us, to educate us. It’s really a, it’s the most ideal home for me for what I do and what my mission is. Wow, how many residents on the ship? There’s really, it says on there and advertise about 164, but the real truth is it’s about 100 or so, because there’s some that have two and three apartments that are combined into bigger apartments.

1:43:58 Okay, and so originally, uh, it was part hotel and condominium or condominiums, but the hotel part had a different clientele, and so we bought out the hotel component and then we ended up making it pure residential, and it really then did a great job after that. And it looks like a cruise ship, it’s a like a cruise ship, but it’s just condominiums, people’s homes. Wow, and they just float around and some are on and off, I mean I’m off and on as I’m traveling, but it’s really a, it’s an amazing experience, all Italian sights.

1:44:27 Wow, best address on planet. And you collectively decide the routes? Yeah, we vote where we want to go, okay, and then they may have Captain’s Choice. To me, I remember one time we actually, the, a certain tide that comes only so often made a little island appear out of nowhere that doesn’t show up ever, and we were there waiting for it, and it came out of the water and we got on Zodiacs, went out there and had a picnic on this island, we only had like three hours to do it, two hours to do it, and then it disappeared, and we sell them that’s crazy.

1:44:58 Wow, that’s fascinating. So it’s like your own group of people and, you know, like-minded, you must get to know them really well. And yeah, breakfast, lunch and dinner with them, everybody probably gets to know everybody. There’s some turnover rate gradually, some people die or some people move on or whatever, but overall it’s, uh, I’ve been there since the beginning, so I’m one of the, I think the last group that’s the original people, but I’m not on there all the time because I’m traveling and speaking most of the time.

1:45:22 Do you ever teach on this? Yeah, yeah, okay, I’ve done the reservations there, and, uh, because I wanted to do a speak on every continent, uh, I didn’t have something scheduled when I got to Antarctica the first time, but it turned out that I ended up getting to speak anyway, but I organized a black tie affair to 5 million penguins and went out there and got a video of me speaking to five million penguins and they’re all looking at me like this, you know, and so I can do a presentation on Antarctica, right? Where’s that video now, I couldn’t find that one on YouTube.

1:45:50 No, that’s not on YouTube, but it was, but it was, it was one of those things, but I got to speak on there anyway, on the going back through the Drake Passage. But at the, you know, it’s amazing because this was in the brainchild of an individual in Norway who on a piece of napkin wrote the idea down and was building ships anyway and thought, what a, what a way to do that. And so I was very blessed to, um, be at the right place at the right time to meet the right people to get to do what I love doing and matched up with your synchronicity.

1:46:19 So it just matched what I’m, what I thought I was here to do. Wow, you mentioned the movie The Secret, um, how has that movie changed, you know, your life, and what did people understand about it and what was misunderstood about that movie? Well, when I filmed for that, um, I got asked, uh, amongst about 33 people that were involved in that, and it sounded really cool, and in the original movie never came out, the original piece, they were planning on doing a worldwide kind of distribution, not on a DVD but on TV, okay, and originally going to be in Channel Nine and, um, in Australia, and they had an advertisement, in fact it had me speed reading, uh, books with tears in my eyes on the advertisement number, and, um, so it was really going to be this kind of TV thing, but then all of a sudden the Commonwealth Games bought out the time and paid more to get the space, and the day of launch got thrown off and they didn’t want to wait months for the next opening, so they decided to put it on DVD, and they did some ingenious marketing on it, and it was really quite ingenious, but they watered it down a bit and put more people in it because there was only six people in originally, and they watered it all down a little bit and got a little bit more, you know, mainstream kind of thing, less depth, but I think that was the key, because if it had been more in depth, I don’t think it would have gone well.

1:47:36 I think people would have not related to as much, you know, because sometimes when I’m speaking it’s a little, you know, brainy sometimes, but but I think what they did is they put it in a format that people, the average person, could relate to, and that’s why it did so well. Now in the process of doing, when I first saw it I was a little bit going, well, that’s not what we agreed to originally, it’s a little watery, and I first had a reaction, but then I realized it’s touching people’s lives and it’s making people at least think that they have power in their life, and maybe I didn’t like some of the things in there, you know, that you just think about it and manifest. I’m more of an action guy and more planner guy and, you know, be methodical and put foresight into it.

1:48:12 Yeah, and it kind of didn’t give enough emphasis on that, I think, but that’s not because people weren’t adding that information, it just wasn’t able to be edited, uh, in. So I was a little bit, uh, not appreciative of it at first because I thought that’s not really the message I wanted to do. I filmed for literally, uh, seven hours and all, but I only got about a minute in there, half a minute or something, but at the same time it also opened up doorways for me to reach people I hadn’t reached and to re-clarify the secret behind the secret, left out of The Secret kind of stuff.

1:48:40 Yeah, and that was a great blessing, and I think most the people in there have the same kind of response, they got to do things and say things that didn’t get to be said, and I think people, uh, got a broader awareness from it. It did mislead some people into thinking, you know, I’m going to go out to my mailbox and I’m going to visualize a million dollar check in there and I’m gonna, and I, and then they go out there and there’s no million dollar check. And I used to tell them, I said, well, you might want to consider working, doing some sort of service, you know, get real here.

1:49:11 But because sometimes people misinterpreted it, it would be misleading, but the principles of what you think about, what you visualize, what you say to yourself, what you feel about yourself and what you take actions is historical. Yeah, we know it, it has an impact on people’s lives. Yeah, you’re right, and it was one of the first times that ever hit the mainstream, really, that you could, you know, put out energy and visualize and align yourself in your life to potentially receive things.

1:49:36 You’re right, it maybe lacked some of the actual practical applications of it, but for the first time ever, people were actually talking about that stuff. Exactly, which starts a conversation, and the thing is it was a little on the esoteric side in some parts and I like to ground things a bit. I’m background in neurology and brain and stuff, and I know that if a person lives by their highest values, their pulven or nuclear and their thalamus, which is a gate and filtering mechanism from sensory awareness, automatically filters with subjective biases the information that is most pertinent to you.

1:50:04 So if you’re a mother and you’re 35 years old and you have five children, your highest values children, you walk in the mall, you’re going to spot children’s things, right? You’re not going to spot business things, so you’re going to filter it because the pulmonary nuclear does that. And as a result of it, you’re also going to have an intention surplus order a heightened attention to those things and a tension deficit to anything else. As a result of it, you’re able to spot things that are more synchronous with what your intention is because of it, which then heightens your ability to see opportunities, make decisions quick because the data you’ve got and also act accordingly and gives you a competitive advantage in the part if you’re living congruently.

1:50:37 But if you’re trying to live by lower values, you’re not living by highest values, you’re not seeing all that and you’re thinking the secret doesn’t work. So the secret is really, the secret behind the secret left out of The Secret was make sure that you set goals that are truly, deeply meaningful, congruent with what you value most, and the secret is powerful. Right, okay, very well said. We briefly talked about your childhood, but I was wondering, you know, because people see you and they think, wow, this guy just was born, you know, into Trump Tower and got a degree in PhD and was this, this magic, but you did struggle as a child.

1:51:05 Can you talk about some of those struggles and then how you got over that? Yeah, um, well, the first time I took a test, I didn’t say that, did I? No, the first time I came back from Hawaii and I took my GED test and I took my college entrance test, miraculously guessing with my eyes closed, saying I’m a genius and I apply my wisdom, because Paul Bragg told me to say that to help me overcome learning problems, and I said that, I guessed, and somehow passed these two tests.

1:51:30 I really felt it was some sort of higher order. And you were 17? I was 18, 18, just turned 18. Yeah, and then I took my first college class, history and English, but history, I took my first test and you took, I think it was like 50 questions, and I got a 27 results percent via percentile and everybody else was 75 and above. When I saw that on the outside of the door, I was absolutely humiliated, and I ran to my car and sunk in the car and cried, and I thought, all I could hear as my first grade teacher in my head, uh, your son will never be able to read, never be able to write, never be able to communicate, never amount of things, never go very far in life.

1:52:10 And I finally turned the keys and I drove home on the side of the road because I was crying and I could barely see, and I kept having to feel like this, and I kept on the shoulder a bit, and I finally got home and I was there in the living room, the sunken living room, under this Bible stand, my mom had this Bible in this room, and I curled up in that and I was just sitting there kind of sulking, and I all of a sudden I lost my vision and had doubt about this whole thing about being a teacher, and I thought, I just don’t have what it takes. And my mom came home from shopping and she saw me there and she said, son, what happened? She hadn’t seen me crying a long time because I left home when I was 13.

1:52:46 And she said, what happened, what’s wrong, son? And I said, I blew the test, and I said, I guess I don’t have what it takes, I’m sorry, I’m apologizing to it because I felt she was encouraging me to try to do this, the school stuff. I said, I guess I will never be able to read and never be able to write, never be able to communicate, in their amounts thing, never go very far in life. I was just crying and she just sat there quietly, and then she said something that only a mother could say that was exactly what I needed to hear.

1:53:11 She put her hand on my shoulder and she said, son, whether you become a great teacher, he learned philosopher and travel the world like your dream, or you return to Hawaii and ride giant waves like you’ve done, because I destroyed big waves, or he returned to the streets and panhandle as a bum, which you’ve also done, because I did that, I just want to let you know that your father and I are going to love you no matter what. That was, she said it, and at that moment I knew what love was. She was present, she was grateful, she was, she was certain that that was true, that was no, there was no gimmick, wasn’t just an incentive thing, it was a mother who had just loved her son.

1:53:57 When she did that, my hand went into spontaneously into a fist like this, I closed my eyes and I saw the vision of me standing in front of a million people, which is the vision I saw the night I met Paul Bragg, standing on a balcony in front of a million people with every major city iconic building in the background as a message for the world. And I said, I’m going to amass this thing called reading, I’m going to ask this thing called studying, and that’s this thing called learning, on a master’s thing called teaching and philosophy, and I’m going to do whatever it takes, I’m going to travel whatever distance, I’m going to pay whatever price to give my service of love across this planet. I’m not going to let any human being, any human being on the face of theirs, stop at me this time.

1:54:39 I got up and I hugged my mom, we just held each other for a minute, I went into my room, I got a Funk Wagnalls dictionary, and I went to the first page where it says a, a, a, a, a, a kind of thing, and I made a commitment that I was going to memorize 30 words a day. I was going to spell them, I was going to pronounce them properly, which is what dislikes it was difficult, I was going to put him in a sentence and I was going to be able to express it, and my mom would test me. I asked her, I want you to test me on 30 words a day until my vocabulary is strong enough to pass school, and I grew my vocabulary 30 words a day, did not go to bed at night until I had a perfect response on those 30 words, and grew my vocabulary words, hundreds and then thousands of words, until I was able to read, and I started reading encyclopedias, started reading dictionaries, I started reading everything I could get my hands on, any book I could get my hands on, that’s why I wanted books.

1:55:33 And I started excelling in a very short period of time, people started asking me if I could teach them, and my teaching began. My first student I ever had was a 375 pound Afro-American woman who saw me doing yoga and asked me to teach her yoga. I thought, whoa, 375 pounds. And then a young guy from Persia asked me to teach him how to meditate, then all of a sudden the whole class got out and said, John, I want you to teach us mathematics, because I was learning how to do algebra, and this was the most amazing things, to actually have somebody listen to me.

1:56:04 Wow, to actually think that I was intelligent enough for somebody to want to hear me, that was like a dream. And I, after that one night, after somebody said, whispered to this other guy, so that Demartini is a freaking genius, because that’s the thing, affirmation that Paul Bragg, he said, if you say this affirmation, I’m a genius and I apply my wisdom, every single day for the rest of your life, sooner they have the cells of your body will tingle, what so the world, and I started saying it, and I’m seeing some results of that, and that night I went back and I put literally 24 hours worth of statements and typed them up so I could stage, so I could fill my day with nothing but how I want to see my life, because I realized that if I fill my day with the highest priority actions, the highest priority statements I could do, my life changes, and it has, and those statements are now my realities.

1:56:51 So that really made a difference and started my speaking career in my educational construct. By the time I was at the University of Houston, I had 100,120, 550 people sometimes, 400 people around every day under the, under the trees because I was doing my little yoga there, and they gather around, and then, you know, I went on to professional school, I had classes every night, seven nights a week, and I just never stopped. I just, I had a dream to continue to grow my knowledge and share it and try to find the most universal principles, I could get the most universal laws I could get, to build a foundation of something that I knew would make a difference to help the development of consciousness and the master the awareness and potential of a human being on the planet.

1:57:28 And so I’ve been doing that, and I’m just as inspired today, as you can see, as that day. Why so emotional when you think about that time? Because that was an absolutely essential moment in my life of a relentless pursuit of the divine master plan in my life, that was, there was no turning back. When you get, no turning back, there’s a, there’s a certain thing that human sovereignty and divine providence joined together, free will and predestination joined together, necessity continued to join together, determinism and indeterminism joined together, and now you’re working with the university kind of thing.

1:58:02 It was almost like a, I don’t know, it’s impossible for you not to fulfill your mission at your destiny. Did that feeling just come to you or did you manifest it out of all that? It started happening when she said that, it just started coming out of me. Okay, I think it’s innate in everyone, because I, in the Breakthrough Experience, when I teach that program, I do everything I can to get people to get to that state, because if they get that state they don’t need me, they don’t need anybody, they’ve got their own soul, right?

1:58:27 I’d rather have the whole world against me than my own soul’s, the Old Proverbs says, I’d rather have people capture that so they’re intrinsically inspired from within and they don’t need motivation out. I don’t need motivation, right, that’s what we need, the whole world to have. Well, if you’re doing, you’re engaged, you’re productive, you’re contributive, you’re humanitarian, and there’s a result of it. So if everyone in the world was that way, would this be a 100x experience being in this world?

1:58:50 Well, that’s a little idealistic because you can’t have everybody at cook, you can’t everybody the CEO or the, you’ve got to have layers of deontological duty processes as stages of awareness. You know, the Buddhist says, I will teach them the illusion to the ready for truth. You know, when you’re in elementary school and you come into science class, you see at the front of the class little balls, you know, hydrogen, helium, lithium, beryllium, and you go all the way to uranium, and each one’s a little larger because they’re orbiting, you know, orbitals going up, and you think, you see these little models of blue and red and white balls and sticks, and you think an atom’s a little ball and you think of a little ball, right?

1:59:28 And then you go into high school and you find out the Bohr atom, the Bohr model, says electrons are going around protons and neutrons and they’re just in these little orbitals, and you think, oh, it’s sort of a ball, it’s like an orbiting system that gives rise to shells, right? Then you go into pH your, your college level, and you find out it’s actually complex mathematical numbers with square roots of negative one systems and children’s equations and probability distributions, and you find out that it’s actually something you can’t tangibly put your hands on, it’s an abstraction of mathematics, and then you realize it’s not exactly what I thought, it’s not this tangible concrete thing, but I had to be taught that illusions until I was ready for truth.

2:00:04 And then you find out in your PhD that the point source of an electron would have infinite energy, and so they have to renormalize it with mathematics because it’s not even a complete model, there’s clause in the model, but it’s the best we got. And then you realize that we have to live in a mystery at the real truth, and most people don’t want to live in the mystery, they just want to be told what’s history and what we believe so they don’t have to think, because it’s scary to have to think and be in the the uncertainty and confusion of having to think. So we have to teach the illusions to people ready for truth.

2:00:33 We do that in theology and politicals and every field has that, but as you move up the evolution of any discipline, you eventually get to those abstractions and it’s almost metaphysical, and very few people are willing to go that far, most people just want to be told the illusion, and so most people live there, and that’s why people have different strata, and that’s why hard work and practice and discipline can get you to that higher level as well, and the more you go, the more you access the magnificence, the more you go where in today into the depth. So the greatest worshiping in religiosity, as Einstein said with holy curiosity, he said, is to not sit there in anthropomorphisms and subordinates or something and living in fears and guilts and punishment reward systems, those are the lowest levels of the animal banal states, civil consciousness, but the highest level is actually the realization that there’s a hidden order in the magnificence in this system, and the more you probe it, the more you get a glimpse and it just brings awe to you.

2:01:28 And as Einstein has said, that it’s enough for me on a daily basis to sit in an awe and contemplate this magnificent intelligence, this pan psychic intelligences permeating the universe, and if I can do that each day and get a glimpse of it with an inspiration, then I’ve done my job. The greatest worship is the honoring of this magnificent design that we’re living in that is still a mystery to cosmologists and every field and endeavor, and, uh, exploring that is absolutely just is just, it’s inspiring. Right, that’s very well said by him, and just quickly, like you glossed over a few things but your life as a kid, I mean you were hitchhiking and going down to Mexico, you want to spend time in Hawaii, and then you met this mentor of yours at 17.

2:02:09 Can you just give us the brief history, because you were an abnormal child or you had abnormal parents, I don’t know. I think I had great parents, I’m grateful. I mean they let you do these things. Yes, yes, right. My dad, you know, tried to make me a little entrepreneur and maybe pay for things, um, maybe work, he charged me for rental of equipment in the office, I mean in the house, to do things down the neighborhoods when I was doing mowing and hedge clip, and he charged me for it, he was trying to teach me the reality.

2:02:35 Yeah, and, uh, so I’m very grateful for that. My dad was a very cool guy, my mom was a kind of a mystic and my dad was an engineer, and I kind of merged them together. Okay, and you grew up where? I grew up in Houston, Texas. Houston, yeah, okay.

2:02:46 And then all of a sudden when I’m 13 I left home, and it’s a funny story, I don’t know if it’s appropriate, but I I had this, I had this guy who’s a friend of mine, Doug, and he had his parents going out of town, right, and so we were going to have a couple girls over to his place, right, and we’re going to have this, uh, this kissing kind of thing, okay, we’re like 13, right, and um, my dad was, we, and I were playing a pool in the barn we had, and I said, well, I need to go, Dad, and get cleaned up because I’m going into town. He said, well, you’ve been into town all this week, because we live 13 miles from town and I used to have to ride my bicycle into town, and he said, well, you’ve been in town every night, you need to stay home tonight. And I said, well, actually I didn’t want to tell him I got a chick at a guy’s whose parents aren’t there, because that wouldn’t have gone over well and that would have blown the night, right?

2:03:32 So I said, I said, well, I know I’m going into town. He said, no, you’re staying home tonight. No, I’m going into town. We had a little bit of a thing and he took the pool cue and he said, no, you’re staying home tonight, and I said, well, no, I’m not, and I took the pool cue and I said, I’m going out, and it’s kind of like that point where you’re now initiated at 13 to stand up to your father, and it wasn’t because I was upset, my father, I’d love my father, but I just didn’t want to pass up that deal at that time.

2:03:57 The hormones were kicking in. Yeah, and so I said, I said, Dad, I’m going out. He said, well, if you go out tonight, you don’t come back, you’re on your own, you’re growing up as a man if you make that decision. I said, okay, so I left, I packed up and I took off and left, and it wasn’t because I was angry with my dad, I just wanted to have a night out. And so I did, and I stayed out and I stayed at his place and a buddy’s place and I stayed in a park and I stayed in a car of the friends and I started living in a bowling alley, there’s a 24-hour bowling alley and started living in a park again, and I just started leaving a street kid, and then eventually I went out to the beach in Freeport, Texas and hung out and lived at the beach as a surfer, and then I eventually hitchhiked to California, and, you know, so I would, and my parents, actually when I turned 14, I saw them and my mom said, if you’re going to travel and you’re going to go to California, you might as well be authorized by us.

2:04:48 So she got a notarized piece of paper saying my son’s not a runaway, he’s not a vagrant, he’s a young boy on a dream who wants to ride the biggest waves in the world, and she wrote this thing up and signed it and I kept it folded up with 13 in my pocket, because as long as you had 13 you wouldn’t be a vagrant, and off I went to California and down into Mexico. Wow, and then into, and then off to Hawaii, then eventually made enough money panhandling to the girls on the beach that I got to fly for 86 dollars over to Honolulu. And I first lived under a bridge at Sunset Beach, there’s the bridge on the Kamehameha Highway there, then I moved to Ehukai Beach Park, the park bench is still there that I slept on.

2:05:25 I took my daughter there on my 65th birthday, I went surfing at Pipeline and Laniakea just two months ago, and I went surfing there, big waves, I did it again because I made a commitment at 16 I was going to surf on my 65th there. Really? So I did it and I showed my daughter the perk bench I used to sleep under and the bathroom I slept in, and there was no abandoned car anymore there, but I slept in an abandoned car and then eventually a tent, and that’s where I almost died.

2:05:49 Wow, and how was your surfing? Uh, I got some pictures, I didn’t have them here, but I got some pictures. But you made it? So I surfed about 14, 10 to 14 foot waves, which is not too big, but nothing like I did when I was young, but it was pretty inspiring. And defining moments for you in Hawaii, you had some on the beach, and it’s like at LX, and then you met this mentor of yours?

2:06:10 Yes, I was, I was expanding my conscience through natural organic means for a while, okay, all right, we used to go up into the, to the feel the mushroom fields up in the up in the Pupukea Heights Road, okay, and I cannot share a funny story. Yes, I don’t have the time now, please. So I’m, I’m, uh, going up to these mushroom fields, I’m 16, and, um, I have this girl named Carol Cagle, who is this beautiful girl, this a nurse, she’s a little older than I was, and, um, we’re going up these fields and we’re picking mushrooms, right, and using these explorative things, and, uh, in those days it had a no trespassing sign, you’re not allowed to be there.

2:06:49 So here we are now, you know, going and picking much, because we didn’t want to disturb the cows because they fix their milk, right? So we’re picking up the mushrooms and the cow manure, in the cow patties, in the cow patties, and all of a sudden a major branch falls down from a tree and it sounded like a gunshot, and we thought, no trespassing, and we just hit the ground, and I’m on the ground like this, and we had been picking mushrooms and, you, the goal is to pick until you could count, couldn’t remember the count, okay, pick and eats, pick and eat it, and so we’re getting kind of, you know, colorful, and, uh, we hit the ground and we’re like, like this, and we’re like little animals on the ground, right? And we look up in this tree and there’s this guy up in a tree that has this long goatee and curly blonde hair, crouched in this tree, and in my state he looked like a billy goat.

2:07:39 Thought, what the hell, there’s a billy goat in that tree, and I’m thinking, man, that’s strange, and how’d that billy go get up way up in that tree? And it’s just a guy, but it looked like a building up, and we’re eventually, I just forgot about it, we walked away, but I never forgot that image. I eventually go through this whole thing, meet Paul Bragg, end up going back to school, end up going and becoming a profession in a health profession, I’m at health professional school, I’m walking in to buy an apple in this little cafeteria, and there’s a guy sitting on a table in the cafeteria, and I’m walking out, I looked over to him and he had a goatee, and there’s just something about him, it matched some image I guess in my mind, and I walked over to him and I said, excuse me, sir, he was a couple years ahead of me in school, I said, um, you know, by chance happen to be a surfer, do you?

2:08:29 He goes, I am. I said, did you ever live in Hawaii by chance? He said, I did. I said, in like 1970, 71, 72? He goes, yes, I was there in 1972.

2:08:45 On the North Shore? He goes, yes. He starts smiling. I said, um, do you know where Pupukea Heights Road is? He goes, I do.

2:08:54 Now he really smiles, yeah, because he knows what’s happening, and I said, I’ll be darn, you’re Billy Goat Man, and he looked at me and he goes, you’re a rabbit man, because from where he was looking down on me, he looked like I was a rabbit on the ground. So we both had this other than colorful experience or whatever, and we thought we were little animals or whatever, and I thought that was hilarious, but I ran into the guy that happened to be in the tree, and he was eating mushrooms too, he was up there climbing trees, hey, mushrooms. So I can’t say that I was enlightened by that, and I can’t say that that was the most aware state of my consciousness, but I did that as a teenager and I surfed on that, and, uh, but I do believe that it made me appreciate nature, made me really connect with nature and sounds and things, and maybe you want to know and explore nature, so that I’m grateful for it also.

2:09:45 I think we, I think it made me want to go and, I mean, a quest for knowing. I think something, something was at it, I have no proof of that, but it seemed like it was yearning to do that. So I’m grateful I have the experience, I’ve never done drugs since age 17, since almost died, I’ve never tucked on another drug, not even an aspirin, not an antibiotic, I don’t do it, but since then I’m not, but up until that point, that I think was another little piece of the catalyst in my life to help you expand your mind somehow expanded, and, but at the time meeting that guy in that, uh, cafeteria, that was so funny, and he ended up being in practice just two blocks from where I was later on.

2:10:22 Wow, so it’s one of those synchronicities, you just, small world. You mentioned almost dying at 17, how did that happen? Well, I was eating this wood rose plant that grew there that had a natural love service and dedication in it, and, uh, love service and dedication, what is that? That’s, uh, the surgical acid, okay, and it was a natural psychedelic there between the most. I was trying to eat a balanced diet, right, some mushrooms and natural wood rose, okay, but it had also a little bit of a compound that were, uh, alkaloid compounds and had some cyanide and strychnine in it, okay, and I was accumulating that and not eating wisely, and it accumulated and it first started locking up my fingers and my toes, and I thought, people kept saying, well, you’re surfing 11 hours a day, man, you’re losing your electrolytes and you need potassium, didn’t work, and it just kept gradually going further and starting to curl up my toes and feet.

2:11:17 If you’ve seen a rat, it’s rat poisoning, and eventually they’re on their back and they can’t breathe, their diaphragm stops. So I’m surfing Lonnie, okay, that’s why I went to Laniakea at 65, I want to surf there because that’s where I almost died, and I surfed Laniakea and I was surfing a very big wave at Lonnie care, very big wife, and my diaphragm stopped on me and it just, I couldn’t breathe, and I went over the falls and got picked up from one of the falls and I was just scraped and the board was broken, and I made it up to the beach and it was right, I hitched, I tend to Holly even to the IGA supermarket and I drank this buttermilk out of this container thing and I went outside in the parking lot and I passed out. The next thing I knew I was in my tent three and a half days later, I finally came out of being unconscious.

2:11:59 I don’t know who took me to the tent, I don’t know. Wow, so I nearly died from that, but it really stopped my diaphragm and it gave me spasms and I was really, it wasn’t fun, it took 12 years to fully get every symptom out. Really? Yeah. Wow, did it also teach you something, being that close to death?

2:12:15 Yeah, and it, when I met Paul Bragg, he’s the one that was into fasting and I fasted, I did enormous amounts of fasting, I literally got down to 78 pounds fasting, because he said if I got rid of all the fat in my body the toxins would be gone, so I fast and that gradually just cleared it all out. Okay, who’s Paul Bragg and what did he end up teaching you that changed your life? Paul Bragg was an American enthusiast on health and fitness and longevity, uh, Jacqueline is one of his students.

2:12:41 Yeah, right. Uh, Bernarr Macfadden was one of his colleagues, and these guys were involved in trying to transform health in America, they helped open up a thousand health food stores across America to try to get people to think healthy. They went on health crusades to try to educate. Jacqueline went on television to try to educate people in fitness and health, and he was an amazing guy and I needed him at that moment in my life, there’s the synchronicity of meeting him, because I had a health problem and that’s why I went into the health fields first, but I knew I wasn’t going to stay there.

2:13:10 I just knew I wanted to master health and know the physiology inside and out, down to the quantum level, and then I wanted to go on and bring the my studies and my teachings of all fields, because I didn’t want to stop at any one field, I want to study all fields. And he gave you that affirmation that you said in your head, I’m a genius and I apply my wisdom. Okay, and he gave you some other mindsets as well? Oh yeah, he taught me about, he gave me my formula of manifestation, which is purpose plus thought plus vision plus affirmation plus feelings plus writing things down in space and time plus taking actions with energy on matter plus feeling deserving and thankfulness creates a manifestation.

2:13:45 Wow, so very powerful man in your life. Yeah, he, very, very powerful. And then I was speaking in Hawaii, 2009 I think, um, and I was doing the Breakthrough Experience there in Honolulu, and all of a sudden this short little pink outfits hatted woman comes in, and it’s Patricia Bragg, the daughter of this man, and she comes into the program because she had heard me mention Paul Bragg things, found out I was in town, came there, and at the break she comes up to me, a little short four foot seven, grabs my hands and looks up to me and said one of the most profound things, she said, you remind me of my father.

2:14:24 Wow, he inspired millions of people. Wow, so you’ve done him a service. Well, he did me a service. Wow, wow, so we became friends, and what’s interesting, she took over his industry when he passed away, but she contacted my daughter, she met my daughter and contact my daughter and said, if you have an opportunity to carry on your father’s work, please consider it. It’s been rewarding for me.

2:14:49 To do, my daughter does that today. Wow, that’s incredible. A lot of weird synchronicities there, huh? Uh, I have the sons that are three and four years old right now. If I want to raise them like you’ve been raised, should I, should I encourage them to get out in the world and do crazy things and make crazy mistakes?

2:15:06 Did you do that with your own kids? Well, get himself to me a mistake unless you compare yourself to other people’s ideals. But at the same time the greatest teacher, uh, Albert Einstein said, the greatest teacher is exemplification. So you’re automatically exemplifying what’s possible as a human being, and that is the greatest teacher you can do, live the inspired life, not talk about it, okay, live the inspired life, and then find out what they value most and honor that, and then link everything else you believe will help them to that.

2:15:38 And if you have a customer, you’ve got to talk in their values. Your children are customers, and whatever you want for your children, honor them by communicating whatever that is in terms of their values, their highest value, and they’ll be receptive and include that, not exclude that, and they’ll take it in, honoring their own path. Okay, treating my customers, I like that. Uh, a couple things about you, daily practice, this non-negotiable for you, is there something you always have to do no matter where you are in the world?

2:16:07 I document my gratitudes and I do all of my metrics on all my goals daily. Okay, and so that’s the new gratitude, you document those every day, and do you read the old ones? But what I do is I read, it’s 25 volumes now, okay, they’re big volumes. Yeah, so what I do is I go to the first volume and I read as far as I go, and then I put in my gratitudes and I put in my metrics, metrics are all the goals I’ve had and every one of those that get achieved, I metric them every day, okay, and then what I do is wherever I left off I read again, and then now wherever I left off I read again, so I may take weeks or months to go through the entire sets.

2:16:39 But you’ll read through the whole thing? The whole thing, and edit it as I go. The old affirmations? Well, sometimes I update affirmation, but I’m updating everything, if I need to update goals, I need to refine it, if I was, uh, if I was a little proud when I wrote the goal, you know, I said too big a go, going too short a time frame, I refine it. If I was humble, I said too small a go and too long a time frame, I refine it.

2:17:00 So I’m polishing as I go and making sure the goals are authentic and clear and being manifested in my mind. Okay, how many goals will you have at a time? Thousand. Really? Yeah, that many, there’s thousands.

2:17:12 Wow, wow. Yeah, I was doing an interview this morning and the guy saw the volume one where a lot of money, he didn’t know what to say and he, I, he had me read them on the air, a few of the goals, and some of them are things that are for myself that are about how I want to master my life, things are things I want to accomplish in the world, things that I want to do specifically, people I want to influence. I mean, it’s there in those goals, but there’s thousands of them and they’re all in moments of real inspiration.

2:17:40 I don’t put anything in that book that’s not inspired. I don’t want to put anything other than what I’m really grateful for. Is it possible to focus on thousands of goals at the same time? No, you don’t need to. Okay.

2:17:49 You find the mission statement and all of those are sitting inside that mission statement. Okay, gotcha. And then what I do is I have the goals and I read them periodically as I go through, but they’re all pretty clear in my mind, they’re all in my head. Okay, even though there’s thousands? Yeah.

2:18:00 But do, should you encourage other people to have that many goals? Well, it’s whatever their capacity. I have a full capacity of retaining information, right? I’ve said that I’ve autographic photographic memory, whatever I read or retain, so I don’t have any problem getting holding on to information. Did you teach yourself that or is that?

2:18:15 Yeah, I learned, it was interesting, I learned about it by, whenever I link information to my highest values, it retained. I also learned that there’s conscious information that’s memoried and there’s also unconscious, and I with learning, I was lecturing to on dentistry to a dental group one time and I had 400 dentists there, and I was doing it, they were doing a Q&A and they’re being a little bit challenging, and a guy asked me a question, where did you get that idea? And out of the blue a picture of Gray’s Anatomy came up and I read it in my mind, I could photographic, and I just read it right out of the page and I gained the page number, everything, and he was, oh, and about 70 pieces of paper were thrown at the guy, said let the guy go, let’s listen to him.

2:18:55 And then I realized, you know what, I didn’t know that that information on a conscious level was in my head, but when I actually needed it, it came to the surface. So I started practicing, realizing that if somebody puts me through a test and asked me questions on information, if I need the information, it’s there. So I realized that what I consciously know is only a small part of what’s actually known inside me, and so I just started devouring information and just allowing to go in, knowing that when I needed it, it’ll be there.

2:19:21 Wow, do you encourage most people to do that? If they asked me about reading or learning, if they, I share whatever I can with them, what’s worked for me. Okay, if I were to ask five of your friends, what is John’s superpower, what would they say it is? What allows you to do all of this stuff? My, my neurosis, as some people call it, is it, do you particularly plan?

2:19:42 No, they see me on a relentless pursuit of what I love doing. I love it so much that I can’t imagine doing anything else. I don’t get distracted from it because it’s what I love doing, right, and they probably see that I’m just persistently relentless in a daily past, you know, fast, fast pass to do it, okay, and that’s probably the most significant thing. And that I really do believe that there’s a magnificent in the universe and I love that, and I just every day I get to learn something new about it, is just inspiring to me.

2:20:10 So I love learning, I love sharing, I love traveling and I love teaching, and, um, I’m outside that, I’m pretty useless. Okay, I haven’t driven a car in 31 years, I haven’t cooked since I was 24, you know, I delegate lovemaking sometimes to people that know how to do it more effectively, I’m joking, because anything that I’m not inspired by, I delegate. Okay, and your meticulousness and neuroses would be, would look like all of these different events, all done to a very high spec, making sure it’s all happening to as, to its extreme, is that what you’re like for other people, through other people?

2:20:43 And I don’t know about extreme, I mean there’s some areas that probably could keep going and upgrading, and as you go along I’m sure we all do that, but um, my main thing is I just love learning and I love sharing, and that’s, and I love doing that around the world, that’s just what I do. Okay, outside that I’m pretty useless. I’m, you know, I don’t even carry a cell phone, and people go, what? I don’t have a cell phone. I said, I don’t have a cell phone, I have a computer for my research, and I have researchers helping me with information, getting it, and I constantly, you know, voluminously read, and um, but I delegate everything else and I don’t like outside distractions during my life.

2:21:18 I’d like to focus on what I love doing. Yeah, it’s helping you, I think. Uh, 75th birthday, what are you doing? I’ll be doing the same thing, except, uh, get, I’ll be at more countries by then and I’ll be writing more books and doing more films and more of this, it’s just going to continue to do more. Travel, teacher, try, travel, teach, research.

2:21:35 Right, right, travel teams, that’s it. And now I set the goal for 100 to surf North Shore again. So, oh, you are at 100? Yeah. Okay, you might as well do that, because we’ll do that too.

2:21:43 Okay, and by the way, when I was there recently, 65, I just come in surfing, I was getting ready to pack up the car, we’re heading back to the South Shore, and, um, a guy comes buying a bicycle and I looked at him and he looked at me and we recognized each other from 1970, almost 71, right, the junction bound, right, at December, January 1970-71. Okay, and he lived in the nursery right there and he remembers me in the park, and we looked at each other, went, oh my God, that was pretty inspiring. Wow, that happened a lot to you, these things.

2:22:14 Uh, what was the best day of your life and the worst day? I don’t know if I, it seemed like the worst day when I nearly died, right, but that’s really also the best day. I think they’re inversions of each other. Yeah, I don’t know, I think that if it wasn’t for that, I’d probably be making surfboards for country surfboards and, um, living on the North Shore, probably would not with the greatest health. In those days there wasn’t money in surfing, it really, you’d win a contest but there wasn’t anything.

2:22:46 I may have been done that, but my life changed that night when I met Paul Bragg, so that’s one of the probably the most significant days, and then my mom’s, when she did that, that was another catalyst. Ice, yeah. But I mean I’ve had some interesting close calls, I’ve been shot at, I’ve been stabbed, I’ve been, I’ve done all kinds of things along the journey of living in the streets and stuff, but those are, they’re faded insignificances, they’re all part of exactly what I needed to be at the right place at the right time to meet the right people at the time.

2:23:15 Right, what scares you? Uh, somebody asked me, do I ever have a fear of public speaking? I said, no, the fear of not speaking. Okay, so not being able to do that? No, I’m busy speaking, but the probably the most anxious moments I have is when I find out that there’s a delay in a flight and there’s people on the other end, sometimes hundreds or thousands of people and a promoter sitting there, and if I can’t be there I get a little bit anxious because I don’t think it’s fair to those people, right, and so if I have to get a private jet or if I have to figure out another way, we go to plan B, okay, I don’t want to miss that.

2:23:49 But that sometimes brings up some frustration because it’s like, that wasn’t planned and I didn’t anticipate that one. So those things happen sometimes and sometimes we’ve actually have to go online and do it live with, uh, technology, which is plan B, but yeah, that’s okay. Okay, what would we be surprised to learn about John Demartini, something you do that just we might not expect? I have the worst jokes probably on the planet. I’ve been voted as having some of the worst jokes on the planet.

2:24:17 Do you want to tell one? Uh, I don’t even know them, they come out of me spontaneous and they’re really, they’re really funky, just really bad, they’re really, they’re bad and people laugh, but they’re, you know, in fact there’s a lovely, um, actor and director here in London who came to the Breakthrough Experience recently, a few months ago, and he was writing down whatever came out of me that was, I guess, somewhat funny, and he came up to me on the few days later and for lunch and he said, if I, if I, uh, made a movie out of your comedy, would you let me do that? And I said, sure, what?

2:24:49 It says you have some incredible comedy. And I said, you’re kidding, I said, I’ve been known for having the worst jokes on things. It says you have some really great jokes, and when they, and you don’t even know you’re doing them because they’re coming out of you without even realizing it. So, but I’m known for really funky jokes and sometimes a little perversion in there. Okay, gotcha, that’s what you mean.

2:25:07 You have to keep people engaged and entertained all day, right? Yeah, so you need different things. Yeah, when I tell them people, you know, the purpose of marriage is not happiness, the purpose of marriage is to find somebody to delegate low priority stuff to, you know, people, they get to cut chuckle out of these things, but I have some lines or whatever that pop in and some of them are just, like I say, spontaneous. Okay, what keeps you awake at night?

2:25:27 Uh, being inspired by what the next opportunity, okay, and, but sometimes I get distracted, sometimes I, uh, you know, feel like I’m, I’m got a deadline that I put on myself and it was a little bit unrealistic and so I’m not sleeping because I’m thinking about that, sometimes that happens, but most of the time I’ll have a tear of gratitude, I don’t go too many nights without a tear gratitude, and that sometimes keeps you up. Yeah, I can’t keep you up. We see a lot of people in the world now blaming others, blaming themselves, it feels like there’s a big die course, maybe you turn on the news and you see a lot of this uncertainty, uh, worry, anger, uh, does that worry you or do you think we’re going to figure this out?

2:26:07 No, I don’t get worried about that, zoom and gloom mean nothing to me. You know the overly positive, overly negative systems are not real to me, uh, when I have people in the Breakthrough Experience and they’re trying to show manic or depressed perspectives, they’re incomplete awarenesses, you’re blind to one of the sides. Sally’s say that we look for both sides, and every challenge will be another opportunity, every crisis will also have a blessing, and yes, we’ll have things that we don’t see the blessings to, but eventually emerge, and so I’m a firm believer in as whatever the challenges are awaken inside us new opportunities to create and find solutions, and so I’m a solution-oriented guy.

2:26:47 Is this kind of technology, new media way where this can really be magnified in our face all the time and buzzing on our pockets, is this, it’s what sells, okay, is this potentially a good feedback loop to remind us we’re going in the wrong way, or is it potentially, it’s just a feedback? I don’t pay a whole lot of attention to that because I mean history has had that throughout history and people say the end of the world and doomsday and they say we’re going to save the world and this, no, that means anything to me, right? I’m focused on as much objective information as I can, something that’s solid that I can build on, and I don’t put too much emphasis on um, the overly optimistic or overly pessimistic manic depressive collective consciousness.

2:27:28 I’m more focused on looking for the objective because I see both sides of things in the break, so I train people how to see both sides, and when they think something terrible is occurring, a day, a week, a month, a year or five years later, they find out there’s blessings in it, but you don’t have to have the wisdom of the ages or the aging process, you can look now and find it and become conscious, your intuition is always trying to bring you unconscious, conscious to make you fully conscious if you ask the right questions, you wake it up and you see that there’s two sides of things and you don’t get reactive to it, you get proactive towards it. If someone was to take a lesson from everything we’ve spoken to today, is it that lesson, is it to kind of be more stoic about the inputs and then also try to really align to your authenticity to find that thing that’s going to be your Demartini moment, where you’re going to be like, if you’re living by priority, you automatically do both.

2:28:13 Okay, okay, you’re automatically doing both of those things. Entropy takes over, anybody that’s not meantropic, life physics is making tropic, as William as a urban Schrodinger said in his book about his life, and if an individual will stay on focus on the highest priority things, they’re going to have life physics and they’re going to unfold and they’re not going to have entropy age them. Aging is a feedback mechanism to let us know we’re on a priority, right?

2:28:36 All right, so they should naturally trend to those things? Yeah, there’s a natural calling to that, but they’re missing the calling because they’ve been indoctrinated by, as Paul Dirac says, all that stuff that’s not so, right, right. And so if people are tuning in to the, saying yes, that’s me, then they need to start consciously making an effort to push themselves toward those things? Well, if you don’t fill your day, I always say, my Master Plan program, where we plan our lives out, I said, if you don’t fill a day with high priority actions, it fills up with low priority distractions, but that occurs for a week, a month, a year, a decade, a generation, alive and even beyond life.

2:29:13 So if you don’t decide, everybody around you is going to project their values onto and decide for you. So and that’s what entropy is, entropy is the inculcation of the millions of people’s expectations put on you that you’re letting in instead of transforming. Beyond. Right, right, it’s powerful stuff. A couple last questions I always ask, John, if you could pick up a phone and ring up the 20 year old John Demartini and give that young man some advice based on everything you know now to the 20 year old, what would you tell them?

2:29:46 The John, if people want to learn more about your stuff and learn more about these processes and find out about the next Breakthrough, how do they find you? They simply go to drdemartini.com, Dr Demartini, d-e-m-a-r-t-i-n-i.com, and on there is a vast amount of interviews and products and YouTube videos and live things and where I’m going in my events around the world, and you could probably spend the rest of your life just reading on there and watching and viewing on there and probably not run out of time there. It’s a lot of education on there, it’s an educational website as much as anything.

2:30:46 Okay, and you traveling the world constantly, so full time, people could find ways to find you? Yeah, the event, if you look under events, it sees where I am now. Not every event’s on there because some are private events, but the public events that we put on, not other people or private events, are on there, so it only has probably about 65, 70 of what’s actually going on, but at least it has places you can go, they can public events and go to. Okay, and the rest time you’re on the boat?

2:31:12 You don’t have otherwise? Well, I’m not on there that much anymore, I’m full-time traveling. If I have a choice, I mean if I have a choice between doing what I love doing and just chilling out, as some people call it, which I don’t need to, um, I’m going to be speaking. Some people call that workaholism, you know, um, that’s fine. I don’t really, I don’t really put up, but is that someone else?

2:31:32 I don’t, I don’t let the opinions of others interfere with my mission, and whatever they do. I had a lady one time come to me, says, you know, doctor, my wife calls that, that is why this lady says, she says, Dr Demartini, you’re a terrible father. And I said, how come? I said, will you hardly see your children? I said, why would you want a terrible father seeing his children?

2:31:48 And she goes, oh, you’d make me disgusted. Since he says, you always have an answer for things. I said, well, that’s my job, I’m a teacher. And she did, she couldn’t twist it because she was projecting her values onto me and expecting me to live in her values, and that’s not what we’re here for, and we’re not here to fit in anybody else’s box, we’re here to create our own design, and most people don’t give themselves permission to do that. They live it by duty, they live by shoulds, ought to, you supposed to, got to’s, have to, as much they live by imperatives of authorities that they’ve subordinated to, and they don’t give themselves permission to shine and create their own reality, and you can create your life exactly how you want it, and there’s, and it doesn’t matter, no matter you’re going to be considered a hero and a villain, no matter what the hell you do in your life, you might as well do what you love and be a hero and villain.

2:32:34 I really appreciate that point of view. Uh, John, I don’t know where you’ve been the last five years, because we should have this conversation much earlier. Um, I really appreciate your energy, your ideas, I’ve really enjoyed this a ton, and I put you right up there with some of our top guests ever. So thank you for everything you do, you articulate it really well, and I’ve never seen this side of you, so I’m just gonna go ahead and say this is the best interview I’ve ever seen on you, and, uh, I think we just got it in a bottle and I’m super happy.

2:33:01 That’s because the best interview just took advantage of it. I appreciate that. Yeah, my pleasure, I’ll take that from you. And look, all the best, and, uh, I’d love to come to one of your events in the future, so I’m gonna make that happen as well. Thank you.