Paul Chek - The Journey Of Self Management: How To Achieve Success In Business, Your Body & Life

Full transcript: Paul Chek on London Real

2:16 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Paul Chek, the American fitness expert, health consultant, and author. You founded the Chek Institute 25 years ago with the mission to revolutionize the industry using a whole system approach to fitness and well-being. Your unique methodology for movement and wellness has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Glamour Magazine, and Men’s Health.

2:37 You have worked as a consultant with organizations like the Chicago Bulls and the US Air Force. And you have written 11 books, including the bestseller, How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy, which details the fundamental pillars of diet and movement to create long-term well-being. Paul, welcome to London Real.

2:52 Hey, it’s my pleasure. My pleasure. I’m excited to be here. I love your show.

2:57 Thank you so much. It’s great to have you. It’s been years and years. People have been emailing us to say to have you on, and we’ve had your students here like Elliot Hulse, so it’s great to finally do this. It’s weird that I’m from San Diego and now I’m in London talking to you, but you know, it’s all good.

3:13 You know, so much stuff to talk about, Paul, but I thought maybe we jump into it and get your thoughts, maybe from a holistic perspective, on the last four months of this crazy world, you know, from the COVID 19 to the lockdown to even some of the unrest that we’re seeing, you know, what’s the Paul Chek view on what just happened to us as a species?

3:36 Well, you know, if there’s one person out there who I think has a real handle on this, it’s Zach Bush, MD. Are you familiar with him?

3:45 Yeah, he was actually our guest last week. So,

3:48 Yeah. So, I think Zach Bush has done the best job of encapsulating what’s really going on. I think there’s a couple of factors involved. One, I don’t think anyone needs more than a couple of brain cells holding hands to know that we have traumatized the planet quite badly and are continuing to do so. You know, the oceans are dying.

4:09 There’s many places in the world now where fishermen can’t catch fish. The Great Barrier Reef is dying. You know, 20 years ago, I saw a video from a rare native population that had never ever been before been filmed. And they let a BBC film guy come because they had a message. And they were talking about how the snow is not coming in the winter and how the tree line is receding from the top of the mountains.

4:37 And this particular tribe of people had been in that one place for over a thousand years. And they were sending a warning to the white man that you’re killing the planet and you need to be extremely careful. And you see that we’re abusing the use of fossil fuels. We have advanced technologies such as zero point technologies that the government confiscates the patents of and suppresses the owners of. So we continue to traumatize the environment with, you know, fossil fuels and you have, you know, Donald Trump trying to remove nature reserves constantly for more fracking and more drilling, which is clearly a corporate agenda.

5:17 I think one of our real issues, you know, aside from another thing, is that we’ve been using organophosphates and chemicals like Roundup since after the Second World War. And we’ve really, best e expert estimates say that we only have about 55 to 65 years of topsoil left. I recently saw a report from a group of entomologists, and the title of it was something like “Armageddon may be near or here.” And what they’d found is one of the entomologists doing research found that there was a drastic reduction in bug traffic, and it concerned him so much he connected to other entomologists, bug experts around the world, and they did a combined study.

6:03 After their study they concluded that in the last 50 years bug traffic had dropped 75.5%, which means that the sex organs of our planet are dying. Rudolf Steiner said in the late 1800s, “Human life depends on two things, and when they reach a critically low level, life will cease to exist as we know it. And those two things are bees and trees.” We have a worldwide epidemic of bees dying off everywhere, which has been tracked to electromagnetic pollution and the use of farming chemicals.

6:35 And we’re clearing the rainforests and cutting forests down at unprecedented rates, all for what? Corporate crops. And so if you look at the research on exosomes and viruses, and Rudolf Steiner also said in the late 1800s and early 1900s that viruses are produced when any organism begins to break down or to die or get sick, because they’re messengers to the other organisms in the environment to trigger their genes to adapt for survival. Zach Bush echoes the same concept and basically describes how there’s a link between the areas where we have the greatest amount of pollution, the particulate matter in the air, and the viruses taking a ride through the jetstream and moving around the world.

7:27 But all the highest problems with COVID have been in the areas that are the most polluted, such as New York City, etc. And so really, I think what we’re seeing is that Mother Earth is sending out a cry, a warning call to say you must change quickly or your days are potentially numbered, because she has an immune system and it’s already been going off. Right? Whenever you get sick, you alternate between hot and sweating and cold and shivering. And so we’re seeing these alternations from hot to cold, hot to cold.

8:03 And many places are saying they don’t even seem to have seasons anymore. And my father, by the way, who’s a farmer and has been a farmer for a, you know, since I was a little kid, told me that when I told him about this report on the bug traffic, and I sent it to him, he said, “You remember when you were a kid, the mosquitoes were so plentiful, they would practically carry you away?” He said, “Rarely ever do I see a mosquito on the farm anymore.” And he also attributes that to farming chemicals.

8:33 Psychologically, if you look at this, if you look at the universal principles written by Arnold Patent, he in one of them, he makes a very profound statement. He says, “If you don’t like what’s happening in your life, look carefully at what you’re choosing unconsciously.” So what people forget is, as Bruce Lipton shows, the unconscious mind is about a million times more powerful in its information-carrying capacity than the conscious mind, and I think we’re really in a situation where people have been so corporatized and they’re, you know, J.

9:10 Paul Getty said, “Far better is it to get 1% from a 100 men than 100% from one man.” So I think the corporate elites, which have turned our democratic governments into corporate headquarters, have pushed the system so far with predatory lending, markup, advanced marketing technologies, the use of phones, and they’ve gotten people to a situation where they’re living so intensely to try to make enough money to pay off all their bills. They’re kind of like everybody’s turned into a college student that gets out of college wet behind the ears and has a $100,000 college loan before they even make their first paycheck.

9:47 And so I think people are actually, at a deep level, burning out, and there’s a sort of a cry of the soul for a rebalancing and a reconnection to nature and to have family time and to reconnect. And I think the whole concept of texting and constantly using computers to talk to each other has gotten out of proportion to great extremes. I’ve seen husband and wife sitting in airports side by side, texting each other. And I’ve seen this kind of thing many times in coffee shops where people that are supposed to be in an intimate relationship aren’t even talking.

10:24 So we’ve risen so far high up into the realm of the mind that we’ve actually lost touch with what Jung called the self, or that which supports us, allows us to live and integrates us, such as earth, water, the sun, air, the elements that have to be in balance for life to live. And so at the end of the day, I think that we’re ultimately all sort of paralyzed and afraid because the magnitude of the problems in so many areas, from education to banking to the military use of military funds, to environmental policies to political manipulation to manipulation on the truth of vaccinations to a complete and utter, you know, there’s no way to describe the American medical system and most medical systems, except that there’s an old saying, “God, the devil’s favorite place to hide is in the church,” but we have to now extend that to the medical system other than acute emergency care.

11:21 It’s become so predatory and so drug-based and so, so in denial of the most advanced science on holistic health, on the truth of herbology, natural medicines, energy medicines, homeopathy, which has struggled for a long time and still is, you know, low-flying in as far as being aware in people’s minds. I think when you put all this together, you’ve got a conscious cry for help, which led us all, what we had to do, which was to get still and really, what we wants and needs and also, it gave us a real chance to see how much manipulation is being used on the public. The number of excellent physicians that came out and told the truth of what was going on, and the truth of government mandates to label people as COVID deaths that were not, who described the fact that we don’t even have a legitimate test for the COVID virus yet.

12:21 They’re proposing that they’re getting test results all the time, but that’s completely false. Um, I think what it’s doing is, you know, 2020 is a year. If you look at the number numerologically, 2020. You have an inner consciousness and an outer consciousness. So two is subject-object.

12:43 You’re listening to me right now. I’m the object of your awareness. Within you is the subject. I’m listening and engaging with you. You’re the object of my awareness.

12:55 But within me is the subject. Within ourselves, there’s a person we talk to. When we are frustrated or happy or whatever, we have an inner life with our self. That’s one of the twos, subject-object inside, subject-object outside. 2020, those two meet each other.

13:13 And what it does is it creates an energetic mirror where we can actually see everything we’ve been hiding inside of ourselves, in our shadow and in our unconscious. So I think it’s the great revealing of everything that people have pacified with themselves to be distracted from dealing with the real issues of the world. So we’re finding out the truth of the politicians. We’re finding out the truth of the medical system. We’re finding out what people’s true motives are.

13:40 We’re seeing who’s playing games and manipulation. We’re learning about how dangerous the media is. I think at the end of the day it’s a soft purge that’s giving us an opportunity to wake up, grow up, wake up, clean up, grow up, and show up before issues get much worse. And we’re also seeing that our freedom of speech is under tremendous threat, and our constitutional rights are under tremendous threat because people like Bill Gates and others are stepping in to enforce their own agenda, which they sugarcoat like they’re really caring for human beings, but it’s ultimately directed towards making more and more and more and more billions and trillions of dollars.

14:29 But that’s exactly the corporate influence on government and on people that’s led us into this trouble. So it’s time for people to actually wake up and be brave enough to look at both sides of the argument. We’re at a point now where belief systems are unstable, and if we don’t, you know, the environmentalists have to look honestly at the economic concerns of radical change. No matter which way you go, government, education, banking, politics, or energy, industry, everyone has to look at both sides of the argument and become open-minded, or we’re going to continue to be adhering to belief systems that cannot be sustained.

15:14 And the only outcome for that is a crash of much greater significance.

15:20 Yeah. Well, we’ve kind of perturbed the system in the past three or four months. And like you say, you can kind of see things we couldn’t normally see when it’s kind of business as usual. So like you said, you see kind of behind the curtain briefly of media, of the medical industry, of politics, of marketing, of all these machines and forces that were kind of running very, very structured. And if you’re looking, you kind of say, well, wait a second.

15:45 All of a sudden, I see censorship here. I see this happening here. The question is, are we going to notice this, or is it kind of, let’s get back to normal? Do you see any signs that this can cause a change? Well, I do, on a number of levels.

16:02 The problem is that people like Zach Bush and the people that really have the knowledge to help us make the transformation, whether it be people like Bruce Lipton, Eckhart Tolle, enlightened scientists, enlightened environmentalists, all their wisdom is being confiscated off the internet at a rapid pace. So what’s happening is the public is continuing to be programmed by the people that have the very agendas that led us into the problem and who have a lot of money. So until we actually create a freedom of speech law that’s enforced, we’re having the same problem that happens in farming.

16:44 When you start killing diversity and go to monocropping, you now destroy the diversity in the soil. You destroy the diversity of the microorganisms. You destroy the diversity of which animals can live and feed there and do their magic. So what we’re doing is we’re being brought into control by entities that have a very, very big financial agenda and making sure we see, do, act, think and conform the way they want us to, which is, like, you know, at one time we had 179 species of apples.

17:18 I think in England they had up to like 179 species of apples, but now they only farm four on average. So when you do that, I mean, imagine what would happen if you went to the zoo and you got rid of 90% of the animals there and thought that you were doing everybody a favor. Well, you know, people would have a lot less children and would have no idea what nature really holds around the world. So what’s happening with all this censoring and monitoring is we’re getting rid of voices, and we’re getting rid of voices that are extremely wise, that have a lifetime of experience and tremendous skill, that are often far more knowledgeable, deep and wide, than the ones that are getting the microphone or the television.

18:05 And so we’re actually being pulled deeper into a very, very dangerous illusion, which is driven by money and by false interests and by false pretensions of, we’re trying to take care of you, all that stuff. I mean, all you’ve got to do is look at the vaccine information and the countless numbers of videos with medical doctors whose own children have been killed or become autistic or gotten serious diseases who then had to go do research and were heartbroken when they found how badly they’ve been lied to by the CDC, the American Medical Association. And those keep getting taken off Amazon and everywhere else.

18:48 So you see, until we get to the point where people stand up for their freedom of speech and their rights as citizens and their need for diversification, and we start giving airtime to the people on both sides of the fence, we’re never going to make intelligent decisions. And we’re always going to need to be bailed out by some big daddy in the sky. Which puts us right back to who’s the only people that can bail you out when you’re in a major world crisis due to earthquakes, pandemics, etc.

19:20 It’s people like Bill Gates and so-called government, which is now just corporations, because we’ve broken the very rule that Adam Smith, considered to be the first economist, warned in his original book and his teachings. He said, “It is extremely dangerous to let large companies or corporate interests into government.” He said, “In my life, every meeting I’ve ever been into with large corporations was a bunch of men talking about how to get more money out of people with no concern as to the effects it had on them as human beings.”

19:55 And we now have dangerous, dangerous, dangerous corporate influences from Monsanto and oil companies and drug companies and vaccine companies and food manufacturing companies. If we don’t level the playing field and start listening to wise people, well, I don’t think you need to be a genius. Just take what you thought COVID was. Imagine when people don’t have enough money, they start getting violent. They get scared.

20:27 It will not only give them the reason to impose military law, which is exactly what they want to do, because that’s all the military-industrial complex profiting from that. It’s the control mongers trying to get more control. But it can make people so violent that there can be a mass of death in major cities all over the world that would be more dangerous than most wars. We could end up with Vietnam-level death right in our own countries, due to the fact that we’ve been so manipulated, so lied to, and now are so scared to death because, you know, people don’t know how to eat, they don’t know how to find water.

21:04 You talk about cities. Look, five corporations provide 90% of the food for most of the world. When I was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division and we were doing battlefield training, one of the first things they taught you is, if you want to control an enemy, the first thing you do is knock out their communications and control their food supply. The rest is easy. Well, they’ve knocked out our communications and they control our food supply.

21:30 And so I say you better start a garden. You better figure out where you’re going to get water. And we all need to stand up for our rights. And I think we should do it nonviolently. Of course, we should use petitions.

21:43 We should use picketing. We should share our voice. But if we don’t move intelligently and quickly, then Mother Earth has no chance. But she’s going to have to do what she’s got to do to write herself. And when you’re talking about a living organism the size of a planet that’s sick, I don’t think you want to be in the belly of the dragon when she starts vomiting.

22:07 Yeah. Well, you know, when it comes to the freedom of speech, you know, we’ve been having our own battles here for the past three months, which is why we created a completely separate platform that we’ve had to use to have a lot of discussions with these doctors and Nobel Prize winners and, you know, Bobby Kennedys and stuff, to talk about a lot of these things, because we can’t

22:24 There’s a guy.

22:24 Yeah.

22:25 There’s a truth teller.

22:26 Yeah. Because we can’t do it on a lot of these other social platforms and mainstream media. So, we’re having those conversations, but again, I agree that’s the bedrock of us being able to have a proper debate and make intelligent policy decisions. What about the violence we’re seeing, you know, in America and worldwide, and some of that division and rioting? Is that another symptom of who we are as a species, or what does Paul Chek see there?

22:54 Well, if you look at the research in consciousness studies and people like Maslow and Jean Gebser and many others, Ken Wilber, if you take a hierarchy of values as a structure, like Maslow’s hierarchy of values or Clare Graves’ hierarchy of values, but if you look at the structure stages of consciousness, which is the levels of consciousness we grow through, which if you want to think of it in a simple way, when a child is born, it has no ego. It poops all over itself, pees all over itself because it thinks everything is it. There is no differentiation.

23:34 So that would be archaic consciousness. Then the child is very fused with everything. So the dog, the plants, they’re all very, very alive. They don’t have any programming in the way. It’s kind of like a child’s on a permanent LSD journey where everything’s just alive and magical, right?

23:52 Yeah.

23:52 So that’s the magical level of consciousness. Then as the child starts getting educated, going to school between 7 and 10 years of age, it develops the capacity for abstract thinking and progressively rational thought. And so that correlates to the mythic level of consciousness, because what do we do? We go to school and we get indoctrinated into stories, right? And so a myth is really a story that is used to navigate life and the mysteries of life.

24:21 But at that age we don’t have any control over the stories, because we don’t have enough of an ego and enough knowledge to differentiate a good story from a bad story. So we go from the archaic level, which is fusion with the earth. So the body of the child, where the soul will reside, would be of the earth. Mother can’t make that without food, water, air, life, breath. Right?

24:50 So consciousness is fused with the planet at that level. Then you go to the magical, then you go to the mythical, then you go to the mental. In Gebser’s model, the mental model is really about ideas. It’s about images. Ideas and images and concepts.

25:08 Ideas, images, and concepts, which are really how you tell a story, right? How you broadcast a story, but you’re broadcasting it in your own theater of your mind first and then out to other people. So, when you look at the fact that research shows we’re supposed to transcend each level as we mature in consciousness, but we have to include them or we lose touch with very important things. Okay? So, look at the pandemic.

25:37 What have we just talked about? We’ve lost touch with the earth, the archaic level. Plants and animals and nature are no longer magic. They’ve become objects because scientific materialism has deified the soul. It has, I mean, it has extracted the soul, has extracted the spiritual element, the connection which all the native tribes live by.

26:00 Right? Listen, look at Chief Seattle’s speech to the United States government when they tried to take his land. It’s mind-blowingly potent. Like, who can sell the land? Who can sell the sky?

26:11 Who can sell the water? This is the home of my people. We are the land. We are the sky. Right?

26:18 So all the way back then he was saying this concept of buying and selling is completely out of touch with reality. So when we’re looking at the connection to the earth, the connection to nature, and then the connection to story, right? What is our story? Without our story, we have nothing. Then we get up to the mental world, where we’re being programmed by all these corporate entities that use our phones and spy on us constantly and our own technologies to manipulate our minds.

26:47 So What’s happened is we’ve had a breakdown, and through our education system, we’ve lost touch with the inner dimensions and the spiritual dimensions. We’ve been railroaded into scientific materialism, which has resulted in people treating nature as objects and other people as objects. So whenever you feel threatened, in some tribes they don’t even have a word for people outside of their own tribe. They become objects. Therefore it’s easy to kill them.

27:17 So we’ve actually been educated into turning everything into an object, and if it can’t be weighed or measured, it isn’t real. But I tell people all the time, scientists think that way, but I ask every one of them, well, you can’t weigh and measure love. How important is that in your life? And they all agree it’s the most important. I said, why do you play such a dangerous game then?

27:38 And so what I’m really leading to here is as people become more stressed and more fearful that they cannot feed themselves or care for themselves, or that the ability to protect their children or to make it tomorrow is at threat, they go lower in their consciousness because survival is based on programmed behaviors. Because when you’re running from a lion, you don’t have time to be creative. So paradoxically, as we get more stressed, we go lower and lower in our values, and we go lower and lower in our ability to think big and to see connections, and we get more and more like a scared ape or a scared animal.

28:23 And if you see what a scared animal can do, it’s dangerous. I mean, I’ve seen cows get scared and run right into barbed wire fences and slash their throats with barbed wire and literally go till they kill themselves. We see people doing the same thing. So, what to me it means is we have a lack of leadership. We have a lack of understanding.

28:48 We have a lack of empathy and compassion. And we are reaching a level of fear where people begin to objectify people by religion, race, color, creed, political side. And unfortunately, I’ve watched many documentaries on how the Russians are using cyber hacking to manipulate us from the inside. And one of the things that they keep saying in all these documentaries is they’re trying to divide us from the inside, because anytime you have chaos within a country, it’s easy to take it over.

29:23 So, I don’t know how much of that’s involved, but whoever’s using the internet and using the media streams is creating such a level of uncertainty and chaos. It’s turning us against each other, which is exactly how they get laws through Congress that they don’t want you to know about. They get, like, for example, during the COVID thing I found out they’re putting 5G systems in elementary schools and junior high schools and high schools and colleges all over the place.

29:52 Why? Because there’s nobody there to resist it. So if you create enough chaos, inside people start acting irrational, which then the big brother says, see, we have to control you. We have to decide what you should eat. We have to decide what vaccinations you should take your children.

30:10 You can’t manage yourself. You can’t manage your money. You can’t manage your life. We’re going to take care of all that for you. And the next thing you know, we’re just a corporate farm of pigs in cages that have no life and bite each other and war with each other.

30:28 And really, in a nutshell, it’s human beings becoming so afraid that they cannot think and they can’t stay connected to their heart. And the reality of it is the people that are racist and do those kinds of things are obviously wounded people, because it’s not normal human nature to want to rape, kill, pillage. I mean, that puts your own life at risk no matter how you do it. You know, having been a warrior for plenty of my life, no warrior wants to go risk dying unless it’s something worth dying for.

31:06 But when you see somebody risking their own life for something that really is secondary to the bigger picture, you have to say, what’s the distraction about? What’s the smoke screen about? And I think this is the most dangerous time for us to be getting caught in those kinds of things. I think it’s very, very important for us to say, okay, let’s get rid of ideas about race and ideas about religion. We have to focus on what do we all need right now?

31:33 We all need to get the soil safe. We need to regenerate the topsoil. We’ve got to get the chemical manufacturers out of there and start farming ethically. Nobody can live without the soil. We have to get the waterways cleaned up and the oceans healthy.

31:47 And we’ve got to make sure that people that don’t have water do get water. We have to clean the airways up, and we’ve got to stop corporations from polluting that are destroying the air. And we also have to clean the airways up of excessive satellites, spy satellites that are spying on us instead of on potential enemies. We’ve got to get the military to work to support the environment instead of destroying the environment. It’s ridiculous.

32:13 We have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the entire planet 179 times over. I mean, how silly is that? You know, Lao Tzu warned about that in the Dao De Jing. He said, “You build a big weapon, your neighbor builds a bigger one, and that goes on until you’re all dead.” In paraphrase, so ultimately, we all need food, we all need water, we all need shelter, we all need safety, we all need warmth, and we all need to breathe air.

32:39 Right now, anything that’s not focused on that and creating harmony and supporting us mutually to share resources is a step in the direction of a disaster that’s so big even the people that think they’re playing this little game will be swept up in it. Do you think if this pandemic had been worse, you know, higher death toll, we might have got the picture a little bit more, and whereas now, no, really?

33:09 Not at all. If the pandemic would have been worse, it would have been an absolute opportunity for vaccination corporations and drug companies and the very establishment that we’re talking about to say, “See, we told you so, and now we’ve really got to control everything.” But one of the most beautiful things was all the lies, all the manipulation, the statistical corruption. Even them using the same video to create the illusion that the emergency rooms were full of people dying of COVID, and they were using the same video but saying it was in different countries all over the world, but it was exactly the same image, and millions of people saw that.

33:52 So there was enough truth bubbling up for anyone paying attention to say, wait a minute, we’re being fed a lot of lies right now. If it would have been worse, their agenda would have been totally supported. And if the governments had any interest in making it better, they would be focusing on teaching people diet and lifestyle teachings. Donald Trump gave a $2 million stimulus package. $2 trillion. Imagine how much education and how much rehabilitation we could have done to teach people how to eat, how to breathe, how to move their bodies, how to drink water, why you’ve got to get to bed on time.

34:36 I don’t know if you remember when C. Everett Koop was the surgeon general of the United States.

34:41 Yeah, I do, actually.

34:43 Okay. Well, when C. Everett Koop came on television on a national address, which I just happened to be watching. I normally don’t watch television. He said, “Nine of the top 10 killers in the United States are all the products of bad lifestyle choices.

35:01 If you pay more attention to what you eat and you exercise and you live a better lifestyle, you will not have these problems.” They fired him the next day for saying that.

35:13 Yeah. No, you’re right. I agree. If it had been more severe, it would have been easy to roll these things through, but it hasn’t been. I mean, you spent your whole life in, you know, health, fitness, well-being.

35:23 What were some of the gaps or what were some of the lessons that the pandemic showed us? Because a lot of comorbidities were the reason that the deaths happened, or at least we heard that from the people on the ground. You know, what can people learn from this? Like you said, not exactly like they’re telling us this, but what can people learn to take action now? Well, one of the big lessons is that as Buddha taught, the one universal law is impermanence.

35:52 And the ego tends to want things to be the same way. You always want your Starbucks to be there. You always want your TV show to be there. You want the supermarket to always have what you want to eat. But that’s just not how the world or the universe works, right?

36:08 I won’t get into a deep philosophical explanation of that, but I think anyone that looks around realizes there’s one true thing we have to worship, and that’s impermanence. So if we get too cocky and we get too comfortable, we stop paying attention to what we’re doing. So I think people have realized, wow, we’re not nearly as stable as we thought we were, and we really have to pay more attention. People also realized, hey, the people that are the most susceptible are the people that aren’t taking care of themselves.

36:39 And a lot of the people that aren’t taking care of themselves, I have tremendous empathy for, because they are the products of a media system, of a medical system, of a food delivery system, and an education system that is so corrupt that from the time they were born, they’ve been told by experts that, you know, look, when I worked with a lot of Olympic committees, I was one time in New Zealand. They just opened a new New Zealand Olympic Center for Training the Athletes. And my wife and I went into the cafeteria.

37:13 It was brand new, just opened, and it’s sponsored by Nestle. I sat down, and there was a pamphlet sitting on the table. I thought, “Okay, I wonder what Nestle’s telling the athletes.” And one of the first things it says, “Did you know sugar is an important part of a well-balanced diet for any athlete?” I’m like, “Are you out of your mind?”

37:33 Right? Here’s something that should be classified as a type one drug, because it’s as addictive as morphine and heroin. And I’m saying to Penny, I say, “Look at this. This is not only a joke. This is the prostitution ring at the highest level.

37:50 It’s screwing our athletes up. You’ve got McDonald’s sponsoring the Olympics. You’ve got all this corporate garbage coming in.” And then I said to Penny, “Have you ever met an athlete in your life that knows what a well-balanced diet is?” I can’t even find dieticians that know how to do that.

38:08 Right? So, you see, people don’t know any better. They’ve lived off of junk. And this stuff’s highly addictive. That’s well researched.

38:19 So, their whole way of living, it goes right back to Plato. Yeah, Plato’s cave. You know, the people that see the fire on the wall and they’re caught in the cave and they actually think that the illusion is really what reality is because they’ve been stuck in there until somebody tells them that’s not true, and they have a hard time believing it. Except we’re in the cave looking at the television screen and the phone, and so many people have never really been taught how to take care of themselves.

39:07 I was raised on a farm by very intelligent, very capable parents that were, you know, master craftspeople, master tradesmen, and knew how to live off the earth. We could sustain ourselves without going to the store, no problem. We made our own cheese, our own bread, we milked our own cows, we slaughtered our own animals, we grew our own produce. So, if the whole thing shut down, I’m lucky. I live on 14 acres.

39:35 We’ve got food, fruit trees, and food and wild animals. I could feed the family if need be. But most people have no options, and they have no idea where to go or what to do. So when people like that get scared, they start acting irrationally. And you know, you see, like, when all the rioting was going on over the racial tensions, what was really sad was a lot of the people that were doing the looting and the pillaging were actually looting and pillaging their own people.

40:04 They didn’t even realize that they’re destroying the businesses and the homes and the properties of people of the same color who they’re supposedly fighting to protect. So you see, when people get into a state of irrational behavior, they’re at a point where they’re dangerous even to themselves. And I think that we really have to start focusing on the things that really matter, the things that ultimately we all need because if we don’t get past the biases of belief systems and we don’t get past the political biases, and we if we don’t stop playing this game that we have to stockpile massive arsenals of military, and we have to have all this trillions of dollars going into the military when you.

40:57 If we were to spend 10 billion dollars just to rehabilitate the soil and the waterways, it would transform the world overnight. But we’ll spend trillions of dollars on weapons to threaten somebody that hasn’t even done it to us yet. So if we don’t orient our values toward making the world a community where we all respect each other, love each other, and know that we need to share our resources instead of leveraging people to sell things and put them in harm’s way.

41:25 I mean, how do you relax when you know that two billion people on this planet don’t have a pot to piss in? They don’t have a closet. They don’t have a place to call home. They don’t have food, and they don’t have water. We’ve got like two billion people on this planet that really literally starve and barely make it moment to moment, have bugs in their eyes and in their mouths.

41:47 That’s completely unnecessary. Bill Gates alone could handle that problem. If he really cared about people, he would be distributing resources and setting up a system to protect us so that we had local trade-based economies where we could share food. We have to bring power generation to the locals. We have to bring food supplies back to the locals.

42:09 We’ve got to bring water supplies to the local. Here’s an example of the kind of crap that’s going on. My wife came to me the other day and said, “Paul,” I just got a notification from the water board that anybody in our area that wants to drill a well must do it immediately because Nestle is buying the water rights to our entire water district. And no longer will you be able to drill your own well. They’re going to own the water under my land.”

42:39 The Nestle’s been buying up water wells all over the world. And so that the people that own the land can’t get their water. That’s absolutely illegal. That is absolutely sickening. So here I am having to race to get 50,000 bucks together to beat Nestle to my own water.

42:58 This is absolute crap. And unfortunately, the only people that can change it are us. And people are scared of these big powers. But really, there’s probably only about three or 400 of these people at the top of that pyramid, but there’s billions of us down below. So, it’s just a question of, look, if Gandhi could take over the British government nonviolently by himself by just getting the people to move together as a unit, when we all realize what we’re losing and who’s profiting and who’s controlling us, it’s really just a matter of us all saying, “Okay, we’re not going to stand up for that anymore.”

43:37 And we’ve got to be willing to sacrifice. We might have to go without food and water for a while, while we go through the sort of turmoil of, you know, storming buildings and saying, “Look, we’re not going to do this anymore. We’re not going to keep feeding these corporations.” I tell people all the time, your vote doesn’t mean anything. Haven’t you been paying attention to politics?

43:58 It’s the choice of which devil do you want, right? You get the choice between devil A and devil B, but you’re screwed either way. The only way that you can vote is with your wallet. If you want to starve out large corporations, stop buying Roundup. Stop buying chemicals that are dangerous to the environment.

44:18 Stop putting foods in the hands of corporations that are torturing the soil and focus on buying organic food and biodynamic food. So your money is actually an investment in the planet. Stop spending money on any company that’s not earth friendly or sustainable, and put pressure on them to become earth friendly and sustainable. But one of the big problems we have is our overall humanity is still relatively immature. I would say, really, especially Americans.

44:46 I’d say that if you took each country, or take the world population, and said each human being is a cell and a being, I would say we’re going through puberty right now. We have a lot of power, a lot of dangerous powers, and a lot of dangerous technologies, but we’re kind of like 14- or 15-year-old boys that have an erection that’s so strong they can’t think straight and they just go crazy tearing stuff up and doing anything to try to get laid. When in reality, if we don’t start growing up and looking at the realities of what we’re creating and how we’re misusing these powers, and paradoxically, the same powers we’re using to destroy ourselves, we can use very effectively to cure the planet.

45:32 We can use internet connection to share information to save each other, or we can use it to manipulate and destroy each other. We can use the media to lie and manipulate, or we can use the media as a network system to educate people on what they need to do to live better and heal the planet. We can use the military to fight for real threats, not manufactured threats. We should be tasking soldiers with planting trees, doing, taking the military corps of engineers and doing soil sampling and water testing.

46:08 Look, they figured out how to desalinate water for submarines. There’s obviously a lot of technology. They know how to make nuclear weapons and destroy the world. I’d say you better start figuring out how to fix the world, or even your game comes to an end. So my point is, if we use the very technologies and the very powers that are being used to destroy and confuse the planet and people and we bring those into alignment with a common goal and objective, that we have to make the world a safe place for everybody, or the children of tomorrow have no future, and neither do we, and we’ll just be the sixth mass extinction.

46:46 And Edward O. Wilson warned about this a long time ago. And Rachel Carson wrote Silent Spring in like 1970 or something warning that we were creating a chemical catastrophe. And nobody listened to her. They thought she was crazy.

47:00 So, I think, I think we’re really in a very special time because we’re going through the equivalent of a manhood or a womanhood ceremony in a Native American tribe where you either learn to stay focused on what really matters and support your tribe in the face of death, because if you don’t, you’re not useful to the tribe, or you die. And so we’re all having to go through a manhood and a womanhood trial right now to get clear on what’s worth fighting for and what’s not worth fighting for, what’s important, what’s unimportant. And we have to learn that right now.

47:39 More than ever, we need each other. And the last thing we should be doing is starting racial wars, and you know, toxic men and toxic women. Those are all distractions from the major issues. The fact that those things are even being talked about shows you how completely lost and confused the values of people are.

47:58 Yeah. No, it’s been interesting to see the kind of true colors of various people and institutions that have come out when you, you know, when you put people through stress and to see who’s going to make it through that ritual. You know, for people that are listening that, you know, maybe are some of the ones you described that grew up with horrible educations about health and wellness and fitness, like, but are nodding their head thinking, you know what, Paul is right.

48:23 Like, I don’t know what I’m doing. I thought sugar was healthy. I’m addicted to it. Like, how do they start that journey? Especially someone who doesn’t even know what to do.

48:33 You know, it’s one thing for someone to come to you and to say, “Okay, I’m trying to eat better, but I know you can teach me how.” But what about someone who doesn’t know where to start?

48:42 Well, it’s a great question. That’s exactly why I wrote my book, How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy. That’s why I created my online holistic lifestyle coach level one training program that people can do from anywhere in the world because it teaches you everything I talk about and how to eat, live, and be healthy and more, but shows you how to apply it. That’s the unique thing. But really, to handle that very issue, I developed an overarching philosophical system to carry what I teach, because it takes seven years even for a medical doctor to complete my training.

49:14 There’s a year and a half of training in holistic and holistic lifestyle coaching, four years of training in corrective and high performance exercise and the psyche. Um, a year and a half of training in my personal professional spiritual success mastery program, which is how to use your mind to create what you really want and be a healthy, contributing human being. That takes most people seven years to do. But because there’s so much information and a lot of the even most senior and most intelligent, most educated people said, “Paul, I’ve learned so much, but I have a hard time because I gather so much data.

49:48 I don’t know which is the most important. It’s like I’m flooded with information, and most people have so many problems I don’t know where to start. And so they kept asking me, “How do you figure that out?” And I said, “Well, you know, it’s a very, when after about the 10th time people said that to me, I thought, okay, I better wake up and pay attention here because I’m not that smart if I create an education system that’s so advanced that nobody can apply it effectively.”

50:16 So I went into deep meditation and I spent a couple of months asking my soul to guide me to how to synthesize this down. And so what I ultimately created was what I call the four doctor system. So, I basically have a book, it’s a multimedia ebook called The Last Four Doctors You’ll Ever Need, How to Get Healthy Now. And so what my soul, which is the consciousness within me. So if you get rid of the sense of ego and just connect into the depth of yourselves, the wholeness of yourselves, which includes the universe.

50:48 We are everything. When you get silent and your head stops speaking, you start listening. You find out you get the answers from somewhere magical. That’s called intuition, right? Intuition doesn’t work if your mind is working, because it can’t get the message through.

51:05 So this is why meditation’s so important. What my soul said to me was, Paul. First of all, my soul said, “Study this course on herbology.” And it was so interesting, because my soul took me into this closet that I have that’s full of university courses. I mean, there’s hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of stuff I’ve studied.

51:24 I’ve been doing this for 36 years, and I’m a serious student, you know. So my soul guides me to this one little audio program on two CDs that was a herbology course from about 1989. I’ve already studied it. I’m like, you want me to study that again? Yes.

51:42 So I’m in the gym lifting weights, and all of a sudden the presenter says the Romans had a belief that if anyone got sick, it was because one of three doctors was out of balance. Dr. Happiness, Dr. Diet, or Dr. Quiet, and it hit me like a lightning bolt, and I said, except the Romans weren’t sedentary people. So they would have, now we need Dr. Movement. And so with my depth of knowledge, it only took that one trigger plus the addition, and also the number four, numerologically speaking, is the number of wholeness.

52:20 We have winter, spring, summer, and fall. Four seasons. You know, you have, if you look at how the mind works, you have thesis, an idea, anti-thesis, the challenge or process of bringing it into life, synthesis, which was Hegel’s philosophy. So, thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis, which he left the fourth phase out, rest. If you don’t rest between creations, you burn out.

52:49 And then we have AUM, the Hindu primordial sound, which the great sages of antiquity and mystics said was the sound of the universe, which is spelled capital A, capital U, capital M, underscore, A I awaken, ooh, I’m dreaming, I’m falling asleep, underscore, gone, still point. Okay, so you see, AUM is a four-step process which creates a cycle: winter, spring, summer, fall, four-step process, thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis, rest. So, right now we’re going through the anti-thesis.

53:32 If you break that up in the stages of life, birth, young adulthood, adulthood, and old age, you can see right now we’re coming into the, we’re in the anti-thesis stage. So, we’re like I said, like a teenager. We’re coming into adulthood, but we’ve got to learn how to manage ourselves as adults, which means all of us have to take responsibility for what we do with our money, what we do with the planet, what we do with each other. So the point I’m really making is the four doctors actually completes a cycle.

54:04 So Doctor Happiness is in charge of your values and your dream. What is your dream, goal, or objective? If you don’t have a dream, then you have no way to organize your actions, your thoughts, your feelings to create meaning in life. Psychologist Jerry Wes says, “If you have a big enough dream, you don’t need a crisis.” Well, here we are in a crisis.

54:26 We need a collective dream together. So, Dr. Happiness is the overarching physician because he’s responsible for not only establishing the values, but getting clear on what’s happy making for you. So what are the things we all need to take responsibility for each day that are happy making for us? To me, it’s exercise, it’s meditation, it’s painting, it’s playing with my kids, it’s reading good spiritual literature. So I have a whole toolkit, lifting stones, creating art and nature, gardening.

55:01 I know I’m responsible to create happiness in my life. And within the context of happiness is health or well-being. So Dr. Happiness is also in charge of Dr. Movement. How much should I move or not move my body? Over or under exercising isn’t good.

55:19 Dr. Diet: how do I feed my individual body to meet my needs? Not follow some ism or some diet expert, but what does my body really need? Which means I have to pay attention to it. I can’t just believe that 5-hour Energy or Red Bull or Monster is what I need when I’m tired, or drink piles of coffee. I actually have to have a relationship with my body and realize putting chemicals and food from deficient soils is not even eating.

55:46 It just traumatizes the body. And Dr. Quiet: how much rest do I need? How much rest do I need from work? How much rest do I need from exercise? How much rest do I need a year?

56:00 And there you have your four seasons. So Dr. Happiness, spring, what is it that I’m working to create today? The beginning. Dr. Movement: how do I put movement to this physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually in a way that’s in line with my values? How do I use my money, time, energy, and resources to not only feed me, but purchase food that actually supports the planet and creates sustainability so that all of our dreams can continue?

56:29 And where do we apply the principle of rest so that we know that we’re being honest with ourselves? Because if we burn ourselves out, we can’t be creative. We go into a fear response because sleep deprivation is very dangerous to the body. A woman, the average woman in the first year of giving birth to a child, her brain shrinks one centimeter in circumference because of all the neuronal death from lack of sleep. And this is what they call baby brain.

56:57 I’ve got three children, so I know exactly what it looks like. So when you look at those four doctors, what am I willing to do to create happiness for myself? And what are my values? What comes first, and what is my dream? What am I creating right now that makes me feel connected to life, to love, to people?

57:19 What gives me meaning and is worth living for? What inspires me to grow myself physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. And if that is handled, then you know that how you move your body is important, because if you don’t do it in ways that are dream affirmative, you don’t get to experience your dream. You know, how you eat is important, because food is either medicine or poison. And if you’re eating garbage, you’re going to never have the energy and the vitality to create your dream.

57:48 And you’ll spend all your money on medical expenses. And if you don’t rest effectively, you’re just a burnout, and you’ll be on drugs the rest of your life and broken down. And as an athlete, it’s a death sentence. Now, here’s something paradoxical, Brian. I think you probably know me well enough to know this.

58:07 I started lecturing professionally in 1988. 1988 was the year I introduced the Swiss ball to the gym industry. I don’t know if you know that.

58:18 Yeah.

58:18 Okay. And I got ridiculed and laughed at for that, but until they realized, okay, maybe this guy knows what he’s doing. I have spent, my wife and I spent 25 years traveling the world, lecturing all over the world. I’ve been doing this for 36 years. I developed the four doctor model in 2005, if I remember right.

58:47 And I have had thousands of people in front of me in lectures, medical doctors, chiropractors, osteopaths, nurses, strength coaches, personal trainers, you name it, dance and movement educators, massage therapists, and I’ve asked these questions in almost every audience. How many of you are doing what you love to do and are happy in your life right now? Hardly any hands go up. How many of you know that you’re either overexercising or underexercising, but keep doing it?

59:25 Almost every hand in the room goes up. How many of you are having some kind of problem managing food or have a food addiction or are confused about what diet you’re eating or look at yourself in the mirror and feel disappointed about what your body’s telling you, as your report card, about your, almost every hand in the audience goes up. Remember, these are the most highly trained health and exercise professionals in the world. How many of you know you’re not getting enough sleep, but haven’t been able to manage yourself so you can get the sleep you need, and know it’s costing you?

1:00:00 Almost every hand in the room goes up. Okay. Now, I have a question for you. Can you be a healthy three-doctor person, or a two-doctor person, or a one-doctor person? It’s impossible.

1:00:14 The visual I give my students is take an old style wagon wheel with four big wooden spokes. If you knock one spoke out, you don’t have a wheel anymore. It collapses. You’ve got something more like a triangle. You knock two out, you’ve got a half circle.

1:00:29 It won’t roll. Every time you lose one of those four doctors, what is happy making? What am I putting the principle of movement to, including my body? How do I feed myself in ways that are health producing and sustainable? And how much rest do I need?

1:00:47 You create a gap in a holistic philosophy that’s big enough to give you a disease, take you out and make you unproductive in the world, not only in the world, but in the creation of your own dreams. So my entire educational system is based on seven years of training that ultimately boils down to how do you get clear on what is happy making for you and establish goals, dreams, and objectives for yourself that you really honestly want to participate in. How much do you need to move in order to get yourself healthy and contribute effectively to whatever your stated dream is?

1:01:25 Be it playing with your kids or climbing Mount Kilimanjaro or winning a CrossFit competition. How do you eat according to your body’s authentic needs? And I created an online course right out of my professional training because so many people were confused. I took eight hours right out of my professional training. It’s called Primal Pattern Eating.

1:01:47 And I show you exactly how to identify the symptoms your body is giving you of too much sugar, too much carbohydrate, too much stimulants, not enough fat, not enough protein, and give you all the tools to customize your diet. So you can know exactly what you need from meal to meal, because your body can change so radically from the stressors in the environment, internal stressors. The diet you need in the morning could be radically different than the diet you need at night.

1:02:12 And if you’re not dialing in to internal regulatory mechanisms, where you have the wisdom of about a hundred trillion cells talking to that teeny little ego that only processes 10 to 100 bits of information a second, but you’ve got 30 billion bits a second flowing through you. So I teach people how do you access that information to get guided by the greater intelligence within yourself. So you see, what I’m saying is, how do you teach people? You start with the most simple principles.

1:02:42 You say, “What do we need together, and what do you need?” That’s why I say when people ask me, “Well, what should we be doing with this whole COVID thing?” I say, “Find out what it is that you love to do and go do it.” If you love to write, write about it. Share your experience.

1:02:57 Share resources. If you like to tell stories, have someone point a camera and start telling your story. If you like to sing, sing and dance some truth. The great storytellers of our entire life have all been great musicians and movie makers and people that give us the truth. Whatever it is you like to do, if you want to farm, farm.

1:03:19 There’s something each of us has that’s a genius in us. And if we all say, “How do I apply my genius to making the world a better place for everybody and healing the planet within the flow of my own natural genius?” If you’re a person that likes to help people and you’ve got medical skills, go help people with your medical skills. We all have a gift to offer. But ultimately, what I’m pointing to is that if we teach people how to have a dream and how to set up realistically achievable goals, and we teach them how to move their bodies at the most fundamental level, which isn’t that hard to do, so they just know how to keep themselves healthy.

1:04:00 We teach them how to listen to their bodies and how to eat real food, and we teach them the importance of rest and give them techniques for resting. Well, what do you think would happen if that $2 trillion Trump spent on a on the on the game would have been applied to that?

1:04:22 Could have been a complete game-changer for the whole world, not only for people but for every living creature on this planet and nature herself. And we might have woken up to the fact that we are one family that not only needs each other but we have a deep and intimate need for nature. And you know, there’s great research showing with people that have ADD problems and ADHD problems that if they take them out into nature for as little as one hour, one or two times a week, a huge percentage of them lose their attention deficit disorder and ADHD and related behaviors, which is suggesting that the further we get from the roots of who and what we really are, the more psychological stress we have and the more disabled we become.

1:05:10 Um, and it’s an unconscious fear, because people living in cities, they don’t, half of them have never put their feet on dirt. They don’t know what it’s like to be in a forest. So, those of us that are therapists and know this and live close to the earth can tell you, I mean, when I travel around the world, it used to be hard to go try doing Tai Chi in New York City and finding some nature. I have to settle with a tree growing out of some concrete somewhere, and the tree is happy that there’s someone hanging out with it, sharing some love with it.

1:05:41 You know, it’s just like we’ve gotten so far from who and what we really are. We don’t realize you can’t eat ideas. You can’t eat electrons, not through phones, right? You can’t eat stories. You’ve got to protect what you really are.

1:05:58 So my education system is really designed to teach people how does a soil work, how does the environment work, how does your body work, how does your mind work, how do you use your life as an opportunity to be as creative as you are productive so that you really live and love fully. And fortunately for me, you know, I’ll be 60 years old next year. I’ll be 59 next month. I’ve lived really fully. But what concerns me is my kids.

1:06:28 I’ve got an 11-month-old and a four-year-old and a 40-year-old. My 40-year-old’s partner is pregnant now, so he’s got a baby coming into the world. The amount that I’ve seen the world change in 59 years is radical. I’m like, the rate that the change is going, what are my kids going to see? They’re going to see robots everywhere.

1:06:50 They’re going to see people chipped. They’re going to see people that don’t have to hold a phone because it’s in their head. They’re going to see people that are half cyborg, half human. They’re going to see radical, radical stuff. And if they’re not grounded in the stuff that I know they have to be grounded in, they will just become data on somebody’s hard drive.

1:07:10 And that’s not what a human soul is. And that’s part of the scientific materialist paradigm. They think that we can just chip ourselves and that we can become mixed with AI. Well, AI doesn’t need food, water, shelter, warmth, safety, or love, or connection. AI doesn’t have friends.

1:07:29 AI doesn’t have feelings. AI is really the product of electromagnetic energy on a hard drive. It’s a story that we can pass around, but it’s not human, right? And to be human means to be connected to the earth and to be connected to the stars and to be connected to life. But you know, remember what’s on a flash drive is a virus, potentially.

1:07:59 Viruses are nothing but information bits. They’re not living organisms. So we’re moving progressively towards making viruses out of ourselves that can sit indefinitely suspended in time but don’t have a life. We’ve got to get our feet in the soil. We’ve got to get our hands dirty.

1:08:17 We’ve got to start loving and caring for the animals. If you saw the abuse of animals in the commercial farming industry, it’d make you sick. It would literally break your heart. So if we realize that those four doctors are also the four doctors, nature has a dream. It’s called life.

1:08:36 Nature herself can’t move too much or too little, or she burns out. Nature herself has a diet plan, and it’s worked for billions of years without our coaching. Nature herself goes into a rest period every year called winter. So if we just look, Mother Nature knows the plan. Yet we’ve gotten so smart we’re stupid.

1:08:59 And the whole biohacking industry is just proof of how confused people can get and how much money they’ll spend to learn stuff that you just pay attention to yourself and you eat real food and you get the basics right and you don’t need a gadget to tell you how to live. It’s amazing. Paul, let me ask you a question. How does a kid from California with no college degree who got a girl pregnant when he was 16, who used to ride bulls, and went to the military, amass so much knowledge?

1:09:32 How did this happen?

1:09:35 Well, that’s you, by the way.

1:09:36 Philosophically, what I’m about to say may challenge some people, but I came through spiritual training. You know, my mother was a yogi, and she put me in training with the monks. From the time I was 12, we went to the Self-Realization Fellowship temple. I spent my 15th summer in training with the monks. I’m also a medicine man and a spirit guide, and I’ve done extensive work and research with plant medicines, and I’ve had a Tai Chi and Qigong practice for 20 years and meditation, and I do a lot of different practices.

1:10:13 But I came to the realization through things like past life regressions and deep inner spiritual work that I came to the earth to do that work, and I’ve done it many times before. So from a spiritual perspective, by the time I was 21 it all lined up in me, and I had this aha experience. I know why I’m here, and I know what I’m doing. But you see, part of the problem is our education systems teach people what to think. They don’t teach people how to think.

1:10:47 I did not enjoy school at all, because they could not answer most of my questions, and I got ridiculed for asking them. And I thought I was just asking logical questions. Same in church when my mom was a Christian. I just got ridiculed. I’m like, “Okay, wait a minute.

1:11:03 One minute you’re telling me that God is love, and the next minute you’re asking me to sing Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching Off to War with the cross of Jesus going on before. How do you reconcile those two? I mean, I’m eight, and that’s a problem for me. And I was scared to death that the adults were in control of the world. I’m like, they don’t realize what’s happening.

1:11:23 And it’s obvious to me. And so being raised on a farm, you know, I had to learn how to work with machinery, weld, handle animals, a lot of responsibility, fall trees, drill, dig, cut, grind, fix. You know, my stepfather was a special effects man for Universal Studios. He was an underwater blaster and driller and, you know, construction guy. So he’s a scuba expert.

1:11:54 My mom’s a craftswoman, very grounded in the earth, a very skilled sculptor. So being raised in an environment where kids were treated as adults and given adult responsibilities, and on a farm there is no report card. You either starve to death or you get to eat. You screw up, it costs you. So, because I learned by being with intelligent people, craftspeople, mechanics, veterinarians, farmers, how to solve a problem by thinking it through.

1:12:32 I found in school that everything that I was learning from those people was contradictory to what I was learning in school. They wanted me to believe stuff without questioning it. And when I did question it, honestly, I could not see how A plus B got to C. It was as though I was being told to believe something that I could not get an answer for when I asked questions. So, by the time I got into the 10th grade, I did three months and said, I just can’t do this anymore.

1:13:00 I can make great money on my own. So, I left school. But what I’m ultimately saying is I learned how to solve problems from problem-solving people, which requires that you think holistically. You’ve got to go look at both sides of a problem. And so as I became the trainer of the Army boxing team and worked with physicians and did advanced training all over the world and traveled all over the world to work with the best experts, I was able to actually find people instead of going the academic route.

1:13:28 I found the best people on spinal pathologies. I found the best people on gastrointestinal pathologies. I found the best people on the psyche, etc. And I traveled all over the world and paid them. And when my reputation got well enough known, they started saying, “Oh, you don’t have to pay me.

1:13:45 I’ll trade with you.” I worked in Olympic committees. I’ve worked with militaries. I worked with many, many professional sports teams all over the world and countless elite athletes. And so what happened was, I actually learned to keep asking, what causes that?

1:14:02 What’s connected to that? And I would go until I hit an impasse, which means I found the root of the problem. Which, when you do that, you find, okay, well, you can say the person’s cortisol levels are too high, so you’ve got to do something about it. And I said, well, why are they high, or they’re too low? Why are they too low?

1:14:23 Giving them licorice root and pregnenolone doesn’t address the fact that they’re going through a divorce or there’s a death in the family, or they’re heavy with poison or heavy metals, or a long list of things. So my thinking process on the farm and working as a mechanic and working on drill crews and in logging camps, where you had to get results or you get killed or you lose your job, taught me when I started working in health and exercise how to solve a problem, because really it’s all systems, right? The human being is the cybernetic system, which is a system of systems by definition.

1:15:01 So, when you’re working with hydraulics, it’s a system. If you’re working with cooling systems, it’s a system. Electronics, I was trained to repair weapon systems and Cobra helicopters. I did a year of very advanced training in electronics, and I had to go to math school for eight weeks just to get in the door. I had to learn.

1:15:17 And when we went to electronic school, they wouldn’t let us use calculators, because in a battlefield, if you lose your calculator because of an impact, you better know how to fix the helicopter. So, we had to do everything the hard way. So I really learned how to use my mind to solve problems and how to analyze systems and sectionalize and then localize, which is exactly what I teach my students, but on the body. So I just applied really basic kind of farmer’s logic to the human being and to everything that’s related, and I’ve spent the last 36 of my years of life studying all the sciences, from earth science to psychology to physiology to religion to comparative religion to metaphysics to quantum physics to standard physics to, you know, endocrinology, all the physiological systems of the body.

1:16:14 I did five cadaver dissections. I spent years going to surgery with all my patients and doctors that I worked with. And so I really synthesized it down to what you have to know to get a person healthy and to keep them healthy physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. And honestly, if I would have gone to school, I would have been ruined by school, because I’ve met a lot of very, very smart people with multiple degrees that are not very smart at all.

1:16:46 And that’s not a criticism. I’m just an observation. And look what’s happening right now. The world’s leaders are acting so smart that they’re stupid. They actually really believe in their agendas.

1:17:01 They’re not thinking it through. They’re not looking at the ramifications. They’re only thinking about getting what they want and making more money. And you’ve got people like Donald Trump saying, “Oh, the greenhouse effect is a bunch of garbage. Let’s drill more oil.”

1:17:13 I mean, this is absolutely what scared the hell out of me about adults when I was a kid.

1:17:21 You mentioned plant medicine. I’m curious, uh, a couple things. I’m curious if you can tell me about your journey with them. Do you think that they’re a potential solution for some people to kind of wake up to a lot of this? Um, I had my first ayahuasca ceremony about 7 years ago.

1:17:37 We just put out a documentary film called Reconnect. Um, about three ceremonies I had in Costa Rica in 2018 and my subsequent 18-month integration process that was quite bumpy. Um, and it was about a lot of the issues you’re talking about, reconnecting to our environment, to who we are as people. And, um, you know, the second ceremony was the single most profound experience of my entire life, and I’m still seeing it even play out two years later, some of the

1:18:04 The lessons I learned. But the problem is I and the movie, I’m speaking with Dennis McKenna, who came with me on the journey, whose brother Terrence McKenna was obviously really early on this whole movement, and we kind of agreed that it doesn’t really scale, unfortunately, that the psychedelics, but the information you get from them, does scale. And I’m curious what you think, Paul.

1:18:25 Well, I think there’s a psychedelic revolution for a reason. The last psychedelic revolution was at the time of Vietnam and Watergate, right? So what were we doing? We were doing destructive killing, being lied to by the government, being manipulated, and wiping out the lives of other human beings, all just to feed a military-industrial complex and play a dangerous game, which is why they call a place of battle a theater. It’s a theater, but it’s a dangerous game to play.

1:18:56 Then Watergate, we saw all the way back in the Nixon era that we had serious corruption within the government. Nothing’s changed. They just got better at hiding it. We were losing our freedom. We were being forced by drafts.

1:19:10 So the young people, all I’m saying is mother earth brought psychedelics to us through her own vehicles, such as Terrence McKenna and Timothy Leary and Ram Dass, Richard Alpert, is Ram Dass, but you know, etc., which, um, Michael Pollan’s book How to Change Your Mind goes into this in great detail, but if you look at Food of the Gods by Terrence McKenna, he outlines very clearly why we had regular ceremonies usually with each of the solstices, and used mushrooms, because they dissolved the ego and reconnected us to each other and to the earth and to the stars and to what we really were, so we could stay tuned to the truth of ourselves. People have a little bit of you, a bit, sometimes a bit, and sometimes a lot. There’s been a lot of mis misinformation about psychedelics for part of the, you know, political coverups and all that stuff, because the drug industry wants to control everything and make every penny off everything that can be healthy.

1:20:13 So they make it illegal to have anything that’s going to actually work. But if we actually did what we’ve done to create the field of psychologists, but we created a field of modern shamans that were a mix of essential training in psychology, some essential training in, um, the pharmacology of plant medicines and how they work on the mind. And then you followed the wise advice of people like Stanislav Grof, Aldous Huxley, um, Terrence and Dennis McKenna, um, uh, the guy that founded the MAPS program, Rick Doblin.

1:20:56 I mean, there’s so much great wisdom if we actually created a system of healing to handle people with PTSD, ADHD, eating disorders, traumatic sexual traumas, all the things that these drugs are well known to be good for, alcoholism. Um, and we actually set it up with a genuine interest in making it so that people with the right skill sets and willing to do the training could enter. We could do in one year what it would take standard psychology a hundred years to do.

1:21:31 I’ve learned more from psychedelic medicines than I have from all other sources of knowledge combined, other than interacting with my own soul. And it’s my own soul that gives me not only the wisdom of which plants to use and how to use them, but how to take care of other people so that they’re protected and they have an effective, safe journey. And I’ve been involved in probably over 400 healing ceremonies in my career with plant medicines. And I’ve seen uh, nothing but excellent results.

1:22:02 Now, at the same time, I’ve seen a lot of very broken people who go off to the jungle or go off to some guy with a bunch of drugs in his pocket who thinks he’s a shaman, and or people that are using them to party, and they end up in deep trouble. And countless is the number of times over the years I’ve been contacted or had people fly to see me because they were so disabled they had to quit their job or couldn’t work or couldn’t be functional in relationships. So, you know, it goes right down to the human being still immature with its use of any form of power, whether it be sex, drugs, money, weapons, you name it, right?

1:22:42 A car can be a very safe thing to get you from point A to B, or it can be used as a weapon by someone driving drunk or being a teenage idiot behind the wheel. So I really feel that we could have a quickening of consciousness. And you know, one of the interesting things, you may know this, but when Albert Hofmann first made LSD, he sent it to the United States government saying, “We think this could be a truth serum that you could use to get the truth out of people in wartime situations.”

1:23:15 So, they sent it, and they said, “Well, let’s try it on our best trained soldiers.” So, they took a dozen Green Berets and they gave them all an LSD trip. When the LSD wore off, every one of them won out of the military. They didn’t want to kill people anymore. And they realized the truth of themselves.

1:23:34 And that was one of the big messages the government got, which said, “Holy, we’ve got to get this stuff off the street. It’s going to destroy nationalism. It’s going to destroy our entire military-industrial complex. We’re not going to be able to have what we want. We’ve got to protect the ego.

1:23:51 So, let’s give them alcohol, which crystallizes the ego. That’s why they call it courage juice. Let’s feed them sugar, and let’s give them, um, cigarettes, all of which enhance the ego, and those are the drugs of nationalism, but the psychedelics are drugs of world peace, world connection, and intimacy with nature and learning who and what you really are. So, I say it’s time for a carefully guided psychedelic revolution, because not only are they very awakening, but they’re tremendously healing.

1:24:20 And as Terrence McKenna said in one of his lectures, you can sweep the monastery floor for seven years or do one hit of DMT. It’s up to you. Most people don’t get it. But what he’s ultimately saying is you can spend seven years training as a monk, and you may still not get to where you can get with one breath of DMT in the hands of a skilled medicine man, shaman, or guide, right? And I think most people that know Terrence McKenna know he had the equivalent of about five PhDs, and he wasn’t some drug head.

1:24:54 He was, like, smart as hell. And same with Dennis, right? So, we just need to actually take advantage of the fact that mother nature’s reaching out to us, and she’s showing us, oh, you think you’re smart here? Eat that mushroom. And anyone that’s eaten that mushroom goes, oh my god, I learned more about myself eating, you know, a couple of these mushrooms than I have in my entire life.

1:25:21 Or I learned more in one ceremony than I did in seven years in university. Right? So, there’s no competition. Mother nature says, if you really want to know where the wisdom is, then you have to come to mama. But at the same time, if you turn it into another drug and start harvesting it commercially, you just ruin the whole thing.

1:25:40 Like, the jungles are being trampled by everybody running after ayahuasca. Pretty soon, you know, we’re going to destroy mushrooms. We’re destroying marijuana by turning that into a cash crop. And now it’s toxic as hell, cheap, monocropped. You know, most of the pot out there is not even worth smoking.

1:25:59 It’s, you know, one cigarette has, I think, what was it, 108 carcinogenic chemicals. 8% of a standardly traded cigarette is sugar. So you’re mainlining sugar when you smoke it. Class one highly addictive drug. So part of the process has to be that we have to also set up basically like biodynamic or organic growth standards to produce the medicines so we don’t destroy nature in a frenzy trying to get at them, or we’ll just be getting healed while we’re being stupid at the same time and create more problems for ourselves.

1:26:36 But the answer in a nutshell is, I think, done intelligently. Look, the Santo Daime church is a great example. We should make it legal to apply to have the equivalent of a religious or a spiritual group that agrees to certain rules and regulations and allows them to use a sacrament, whether it be peyote, San Pedro, mushrooms, ayahuasca. There’s a lot of psychedelics at work out there. I mean, nutmeg’s a psychedelic if you take enough of it.

1:27:13 Marijuana is a psychedelic, and now we’re legalizing that, for better or worse. But if we create a system that allows people to meet criteria, just like you have to meet criteria to be a medical doctor or a psychologist or a personal trainer or whatever, and we allow these groups to be run, I think it would heal a lot of our religious trauma, our sexual trauma, our disconnection from the earth, our reconnection to the cosmos and each other. I think it would greatly enhance our sex lives.

1:27:47 And instead of having to use Viagra, we’d be able to enhance ourselves with mushrooms and learn the importance of living a healthy lifestyle, because a person’s sex drive is a very good indicator of their overall vitality. I’ve had 19-year-old elite athletes ask me how to get off of Viagra. I’m like, that’s a sign of how deeply in trouble we are with the health of our youth. When we’ve got 19-year-old young men who should be the fountains of youth of strength that are having to use Viagra to have sex, we are in deep doodoo.

1:28:23 So the answer is yes. I think there’s a lot that can be done with psychedelics, but we have to be careful not to turn it into just another industrial cash crop, not to let the medical systems get a hold of it and ruin it, which they have with so many things. And it’s going to require that we grow up, because in a native culture, these types of ceremonies, vision quests, or adulthood ceremonies where psychedelics were used were always run by the elders of the tribe, by the shaman, by the medicine men, medicine women, and we’re done with great intelligence.

1:28:55 But we don’t have a tribe of elders. We don’t have a circle of elders. That’s one of the reasons I’ve got over 550 videos on YouTube, and I devote so much of my time to doing podcasts for people. Why I started my own podcast, Living 4D with Paul Chek, because I felt like I felt responsible because I have the weight of knowledge. I spent my whole life being an honest student and practitioner and sifting through a lot of garbage to pull out the pearls.

1:29:26 And it’s very painful for me to just sit here and be happy on my 14 acres of beautiful land knowing there’s people all around me that are totally confused and scared to death. And so I really feel responsible, as any of us should that have any kind of knowledge that can be useful right now, that I must contribute. And so that’s what the Chek Institute’s for. That’s what my podcast is for. And that’s what my YouTube channel’s for, where I have over 550 videos.

1:29:58 Brian, do you know how many hours and how much money and time I’ve invested in giving that away for free? And if you’ve watched them, you know, I don’t do these 10-minute, BS, fluffy new age silliness teenager talk. I get right to the core of things and say, “If you really want to get healthy, you really want to grow spiritually, here’s how you do it.”

1:30:21 So, yeah, I’ve seen them. They’re impressive for sure. And I appreciate your thoughts on the psychedelics. Uh, a couple things you said there are interesting. You know, some of the medical marijuana people are diving into the mushroom industry.

1:30:31 So, that’s something to be watched. Um, I’ll get you a copy of our movie Reconnect. It’s actually all on YouTube. And funny enough, a lot of the people you mentioned are in it as well. Um, including Michael Pollan and a bunch of others as well.

1:30:43 We’ve had Doblin on the show. Um, I need to go back at some point, but as you know with ayahuasca, my knees are trembling a little bit before I go in, because I know it’s always going to be a trip to the woodshed for me, but it’s super important.

1:30:57 Can I just interject a little there?

1:30:59 Yeah. Yeah.

1:31:00 That’s healthy. You should always have a healthy awareness of the fact that you’re going into a situation that you cannot control. That’s why the ego gets so nervous. The more a person’s used to creating the illusion that they’re in control, the more any real plant medicine ceremony is scary to them. But if you remember, the consciousness within you is a soul.

1:31:25 And only God or the source of the universe can give us a soul. Therefore, we couldn’t be conscious if the universe wasn’t conscious. We breathe because the universe breathes. We grow because the universe grows. We relate because the universe is relational.

1:31:41 But if you realize, going into any ceremony like that, that what’s guiding you and inspiring you to be there is really the wholeness of yourself in the future pulling you toward your fulfillment. Therefore, if you say inside of yourself, I bow to you, medicine carriers. I bow to you, medicine spirits, and I ask you for guidance, my soul, and because I trust that universe, the universe is a product of love, that anything that comes up inside of me that’s scary or hard for me to handle or I don’t understand, I can ask you to show me what I’m not seeing so I can see the love, so I can see where I can love better, where I can live better, and where I can be a greater contributor to the world.

1:32:24 And when you go in with the intention of not being afraid of what you’re going to see, but learning that any of the darkness that we carry within is actually an opportunity for us to pour love on it and learn how we can grow from it, then it becomes much less scary. But ultimately, the real fear is that you’re alone, and you’re never alone. Once you have connection with the soul of you and the unconscious of you, and the superconscious of you is no more separate from the universe than an Eddie is separate from the river or the ocean that it’s in.

1:33:01 Those are really good thoughts.

1:33:02 Trust great spirit, then you’re always safe.

1:33:06 Yeah, those are good thoughts. And uh, yeah, I have those too when I go in as well. And by the time I’m usually there, I’m breathing and I’m open, and it’s always incredible. Uh, the knowledge I get, but it’s always very challenging. Um, but I keep going back, so it’s obviously for a good reason.

1:33:22 I’ve got young sons like you do, or young kids. Um, I’m always thinking, what’s their ritual going to be that’s going to, you know, what’s their ritual that’s going to turn them into men? I don’t know what it is, you know, and I’m always thinking, what am I going to have planned for them when they’re 12 or whatever it is? So, it’s something I think about, um, as well. Uh, and also, I wanted to ask you about relationships, Paul.

1:33:42 Um, and how you have always looked at relationships or thought about them. You know, you’ve got young kids. I know you have two wives. How have you ever thought about relationships? I mean, obviously going to the church as a young kid, you were probably taught that relationships are this thing and marriage is kind of sanctioned by the church.

1:33:59 You obviously went your own way in many ways. What have you learned over the years? And how do you actually apply this stuff in your life?

1:34:06 Well, very good question. Um, I tell people all the time, listen, if you have an honest, committed relationship, you don’t need a church, a temple, or a center to go worship God in. You will have everything right in front of you. Love cannot exist without relationship. I define love as the flow of energy and information through empathic and compassionate connection to self and or other.

1:34:40 And that other can be a person, a place, or a thing. So love is the flow of energy and information from pure potential or God into relationship. If I ask you, Brian, hold your hand up and tell me what you’re what you’re looking at, you’re going to say my hand, which means you’re using a possessive to describe your body. So clearly who you are is not your body. You are in a relationship with your body, which requires the flow of energy and information from the eye to the body through empathic and compassionate connection.

1:35:18 And to the degree it’s not empathic and compassionate, you’re sick. You’re a danger to your own body, and you’re a danger to the world. Okay? So connection with self and or other. I also define love as consciousness becoming aware of itself.

1:35:35 Consciousness was defined by Bentov as the total information carrying capacity of any system. Therefore, the consciousness of God is the consciousness of the information, total information flow of the universe. And guess what? You are part of it. You cannot be separate from it.

1:35:54 Most people think too small. So, we’re in a relationship with the universe. We’re in a relationship with the stars. We’re in a relationship with the planets, the birds, the bees, the flowers, the trees, the kids. Right?

1:36:07 So, ultimately, when you realize that you’re 50% of every relationship. So, when I’m engaging Angie, I’m 50% of that relationship. And when I’m engaging Penny, I’m 50% of that one. And when I’m engaging the two of my wives together, I’m 33%, which is still a big share, right? So the problem is that you see, if I’m in a relationship with you and 10% of me is somewhere else thinking, “Boy, I really want to have a smoke or I’m hungry or whatever,” you’d think that’s a 10% deficit in the relationship.

1:36:44 But that’s 10% I’m taking out of the relationship, and it’s 10% you don’t have access to. So it creates a 20% deficit. If I’m 10% out and you’re 10% out, that’s a 40% deficit in the relationship. You following me here?

1:36:59 Yes.

1:36:59 Okay. So when you’re in relationship with people, the first thing you learn, I teach all my students, relationships have three key functional phases. I, we, which means to all, three or more. First, I must honor my relationship with myself, because to the degree I’m not present with and in myself, I create that deficit in every we relationship. And I’m very likely to blame them for the problems I’m having when really I wasn’t responsible for my 100% of my 50% of the relationship.

1:37:37 Right? So, our first phase of healthy relationships is loving, care, caring for, and being honest with ourselves as our own best friend, and our own best lover. Most people do far better taking care of their, uh, plants and their pets than they do themselves, and can’t figure out why they’ve had five divorces. Right? Then when it comes to we, we have each got a unique perspective on everything in life.

1:38:06 Even two people eating chocolate are not having the same experience, even though they think they are. Right? So when we see each relationship as an expression of the divine, coming to experience another expression of the divine, then what relationships teach you is that diversity is held together by the hub and the rim of unity. Just like spokes in a wheel, right? But paradoxically, unity can’t even know itself without diversity.

1:38:38 Because if you were in a state of complete union with God, you wouldn’t even know that you were God, because there would be no subject-object anymore. So therefore, there would be no flow of energy and information. Therefore, God can’t even love God without the illusion created by diversity. So relationships are God experiencing God through the illusion of an ego or separation, which gives us subject-object currency, so that when I engage you as Brian, I really can have a relationship with you, but when we realize I’m looking at God and God’s looking at me, which is why when people used to ask St. Francis of Assisi how do I find God, he had the best answer ever.

1:39:25 What you are looking for is what’s looking. Meditate on that. Right? So relationships are God coming to know God. And the more truly religious you become and truly spiritual you become, the more you realize that race, color, creed, profession, I can love Donald Trump as much as he drives me nuts.

1:39:52 I don’t have to want to cuddle him or kiss him, but I can honestly love him and say he is doing us all a big favor. He’s exposing the shadow of the United States so we can actually see what’s been hidden in the unconscious. He has embodied our shadow for us. And what do you see? You see a president that acts like an 18-year-old with too much money, an erection, and too many toys that are dangerous for him to play with and needs to be watched carefully, right?

1:40:23 Don’t give that kid the keys to the car. So, especially the country. Um, so what I’ve learned is that relationships are the basis of knowledge. They’re the basis of love. They’re the basis of spiritual awakening.

1:40:40 They’re the basis of growth. They’re the basis of health. Can you be healthy without having a healthy relationship with yourself? No. Can you be healthy without healthy relationships in your family, in your social circles?

1:40:53 No. Can you be healthy without a healthy relationship with the world? No. What are we going through right now? The realization that our relationship with ourselves, the planet, the world, and each other aren’t healthy.

1:41:06 We’ve got to figure it out, right? And if you get too far into the pathology of a relationship, then you objectify the other as an enemy. In psychology, you project everything you don’t like about yourself onto everybody else, and you blame them for it. And that’s what you call an enemy. And this is why people like Jesus said, “Love thy enemy as thyself.

1:41:32 If someone hits you, turn the other cheek.” Right? This is why Confucius said, “Treat people the way you want them to treat you.” Which is the golden rule. I say, “If we just get rid of all the religious texts and just rewrite the golden rule over a thousand pages and say, memorize that, practice that, we’d be far better off.”

1:41:51 So really, relationships are the basis of consciousness coming to know itself so that we can all realize who and what we are, and until we do, what we are cannot realize itself either. It’s like a Mexican finger trap.

1:42:10 And then how do you manage your relationships?

1:42:12 With as much love as I can, with as much patience as I can, and walking the tightrope of not losing myself in the relationship. In other words, being able to meet my own needs yet find that balance. In any relationship, there’s always a give and take. There are sacrifices. If Penny needs something from me that conflicts with something I need for myself, such as my meditation time, or I need, the girls need me to watch the kids and I have something else planned.

1:42:49 I have to come to a compromise and say, “Okay, I can do that at this time, or can we do that at this time instead?” Relationships are all about compromise, really, and healthy sacrifice is a spiritual process. If we see our relationships as an opportunity to experience and create something beyond our individuality, I couldn’t have created the Chek Institute without Penny. Penny is the business brain and the money manager and the editor, and I mean Penny took me from being flat broke in ’95 to a $2.5 million a year company in about three years.

1:43:32 Angie’s a genius. She’s a shaman. She’s a nutritionist. She’s got a degree in energy medicine, a degree in biology. Penny’s a pilot.

1:43:40 She’s got a master’s in biological anthropology from Cambridge. She’s got a master’s in business. She’s got a master’s in exercise and sports science. I’ve got two wives that are so damn smart. I wouldn’t want it any other way, but there’s this mutual love and respect, and we all contribute to each other and to the world, and we share mission, vision, and values together.

1:44:04 And when you share mission, vision, and values together, then the little stuff is not something you let get to be too big of a deal, right? Yeah. So, someone spilled some milk or showed up a few minutes late. Okay, we can roll with that. But you know, if you share values and you make love and growth in order to create a common dream that is something that’s not only good for you but good to emulate to the world, then you have the spiritual energy and the magnetic attraction it takes to carry you through the growth cycles that are inherent in all relationships.

1:44:47 And really, relationships are challenging because they’re ego dissolving. Right? We all love sex because in sex you drop your ego. Right? A simultaneous orgasm is an experience in which there’s no you or the other.

1:45:04 When you truly have sexual union and you simultaneously orgasm, you become that person. They become you, but you also become the universe. And there’s no ego involved at all. But if you don’t realize that a relationship is an opportunity, because the other person always sees what you can’t see, because it’s in your unconscious, your shadow. Just like we can’t see behind us, other people can.

1:45:32 So if the ego gets too rigid, it rejects criticism that’s given out of love and nurture as a means of helping us. So relationships are hard because they dissolve the false ego and bring you an opportunity to be authentically an individual that is openhearted. But sometimes we have to get our hearts broken in order for the juice to come out and for us to learn how to love. So I think relationships are the absolute basis of spirituality, absolute basis of being religious, and they’re absolutely essential for survival.

1:46:13 And if we get away from our ethnocentric orientations toward relationship or egocentric orientations and we get into a world-centric orientation, which we have to do, and make all of our relationships a gift to the children and a gift to nature and a gift to um culture, then I think, um, just being honest in relationships with nature and relationships with each other, honest in relationships with money, drugs, power. Um, I think that we will pass through this trial of adulthood and become awakened spiritual people, not a bunch of people that claim to be religious but will kill each other because they read different books.

1:47:02 Couple final questions, Paul. Um, are you optimistic on the future, and does that waver at times? I believe in creativity. I believe we’re up against some real tipping points, and I believe we have some real devils in our midst that are doing us a big favor because they’re teaching us a lot and they’re showing us a lot. Um, I’m optimistic on a big perspective, because when I look at the universe, I see nothing but beauty and harmony and everything that looks destructive is actually creative, right?

1:47:43 When a star explodes, it’s a massive supernova, for example, but it turns into a black hole that sucks everything in for millions of miles and creates a new star, which becomes a white hole and gives birth to new life. Life and death feed on each other. Life and death are really what I call names for two halves of a circle. You take a circle, cut it in half, call one life, call one death, and they make the circle of wholeness, completeness, of life, of experience.

1:48:14 So the biggest thing that people are afraid of is death. But death is necessary. If nothing died, we’d have no topsoil, which means we’d have no food and we’d have no nature. We wouldn’t even be here with each other. We’d all just be thought forms.

1:48:26 So, I think death is important because it keeps us honest about what we’re willing to live for and what we’re willing to do to protect life. And when we become conscious, we minimize unnecessary death, but we also support death that is necessary. For example, um, things have to die in nature in order to feed the soil and to make it go. People have to die to make room for other souls to come have an experience on planet Earth. So spiritually, having done hundreds of shamanic medicine journeys in which I’ve even had the experience of dying multiple times or being in so deep I never knew I’d return.

1:49:08 I didn’t even know who I was or what I was. Um, I was just in pure unadulterated awareness, and some of these things were, I mean, I’ve done medicine ceremonies so scary that even as an 82nd Airborne Division paratrooper I found myself curled into the fetal position crying for my mother, because I was so deep into the abyss of God that I had no sense of what direction was home. I was so expanded and so gone, yet paradoxically more awake than I’ve ever been.

1:49:42 I’ve come to realize that the universe ultimately is deeply loving and celebrates life with each and every one of us, and that all of us are the co-creators of an amazing divine drama, you know, a play, a dance, a musical, and that God is a tremendous artist that’s so honest that God will light its own art on fire with the intention of just making something even more beautiful next time. I think my biggest concern is that we have people like Bill Gates and others that have so much money to be made and profit so much on controlling people and manipulating people through the media that our big challenge is they have drugged us with instant gratification, numbing television, and a lot of pacifiers that we’re not going to be able to regain our control back from them, until we’re ready to wean ourselves off of our pacifiers.

1:50:51 Whether we can do that or not quick enough concerns me deeply because they’ve become masters of addicting people. And I define an addiction as any repeated behavior that does not produce the results you want. And we have a lot of repeated behaviors that are not producing the results we want, nor are they good for nature. So, it’s really sort of an interesting… We’re all on a harmonic journey together.

1:51:18 We’re deep in, and some of us are on bad drugs and some of us are on good drugs, and some of us are on fear and some of us are on adrenaline and some of us are on the illusion that there’s nothing to be worried about. But having been down that river and been a paratrooper and done wild things in racing, motocross, stock car racing, drag racing, riding in the rodeo. I mean, I’ve been out there, and I’ve been unconscious for days at a time from motorcycle accidents and never knew I’d come back.

1:51:51 So, I say it’s a great time, and the worst thing that’ll happen is you’ll die, and we’ll say, “Let’s do something better.” And my concern is I just want my kids and all the young people to have a chance to live like I’ve had and like you’ve had. And I don’t want them to live as robots or as control bots or as I don’t want them to be animals in a cage. I don’t want them to live with fake education and corporate religion and brainwashing. My dream is that our children get to come here and enter into the school of life to really explore what their genius is, so that they feel free to fully engage the challenges of life out of love.

1:52:42 I tell people if you really spend your life doing what you love to do, then even your darkest challenges are still a labor of love, which is sustainable. And there’s challenges in the creation of anything meaningful in life, from a relationship to a product to a business to a church or whatever. But if you’re not doing what you love to do, you’re just doing what you think you have to or what you’ve been pre-programmed to do, then there’s no love there. So it’s just labor.

1:53:12 And labor isn’t sustainable without love. It just isn’t. Which is, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger gave a talk that I saw on YouTube, and he quoted research out of Europe and out of the United States. And he said surveys in Europe showed that, um, 70% of people said not only that they didn’t like their job, they hated their job. In the United States, I think he said it was 75% said they hated their job.

1:53:36 Well, no wonder we have so much drug addiction. No wonder we have so much pacification with television and media, and we, you know, when people don’t like the world they are in, they gravitate towards substances that create an alternate reality. Like, getting stoned gives you an alternate reality. Getting drunk, you’re in an alternate reality. Eating a pile of sugar takes you into an alternate reality.

1:54:04 Getting lost in your television screen with a movie or a comedy or whatever takes you into an alternate reality. But what’s happened is we’ve all become so stressed and confused about the real meaning of life and our life and relationships, that we’re numbing ourselves out with alternate realities while at the same time we’re not paying attention to the fact that the plants need water, the animals need food, and we’ve got to stop pooping in our own backyard, kind of metaphor, poisoning our own soil and our own air. So really, I think we all need a deep healing, a deep cleansing, and a deep reconnection.

1:54:45 And I envision that if we don’t do it on our own accord, Mother Earth is going to create a series of events so catastrophic that we will have to drop all religious, ethical, moral, anything that separates from these. And it’s going to be all hands on deck, or the death toll will be um, catastrophic. And as sad as it is, I think we, the COVID thing gave us an opportunity to see what it’s like to have to stand up for each other and to decide, am I going to believe in the very people that have been lying to us forever and be a gullible little person that doesn’t look into both sides of the argument?

1:55:23 Am I just going to let people mess with me with needles? I’m going to let people take everything I say off the internet if I challenge authority, or am I going to wake up and say we’ve got a big problem here? So I think COVID gave us our first little booster shot, and Mother Earth is saying this is what you’ve called forth. Pay attention, because the school of hard knocks is real. If you get your together now and start participating in becoming adults together and stop making silly excuses and burying your head in the sand and eating and drinking and drugging and video gaming yourself and pornography yourself to death.

1:56:04 Um, then if you’re going to keep doing that, then I’m going to have to give you a more potent wake-up call. But if you start participating in life and realizing what supports you, and that’s what relationships are. Relationships are really what support us. And we’ve forgotten about the most important relationships, which is our relationships to the earth, our relationships to nature, and our relationships to others, even when we can’t see them,

1:56:32 Right. Someone made the clothes you’re wearing. Someone made the microphone you’re using. Someone made the television equipment. Someone made the toilet paper we all use.

1:56:40 Someone made the car we drive, the shoes we wear. But we take it all for granted. And we forget that all of that was extracted from Mother Nature, and we were not putting things back to compensate, which any farmer knows is a death sentence.

1:56:56 Paul, I appreciate the time today. Um, how can people learn more about your stuff? How can they, you know, find out about the Chek Institute, get your books, podcast, everything?

1:57:06 Uh, the Chek Institute is chekinstitute.com, and there’s a lot on there. Our media site, which is like the Netflix for Chek information, is cha.com. Check. Loads of stuff for free there on all sorts of topics. My podcast is living4d, number four, capital D for doctors, with Paul Chek.

1:57:32 It’s on iTunes, most podcast outlets, and it’s also right on the homepage of the Chek Institute. There’s a podcast tab. My YouTube channel is youtube.compaulcive. All stuck together. YouTube.com /checklive.

1:57:52 Um, so yeah, we’ve got a Facebook page for the institute. I don’t do Facebook. Uh, I don’t. I do a little bit on Instagram, but not much. I have to be very careful, because I find a lot of these things are, uh, distracting me to the point that I can’t live the lifestyle that I teach.

1:58:13 So I have a limit to what I’ll do on these forums each week or day, and Facebook I just don’t use, particularly because of the politics behind it. Um, but the institute has a Facebook page where we have a lot of group forums. So, check institute on Facebook. Um, my PPS success mastery program is ppsuccess.com. That’s where I develop 12 lessons based on what I call the 12 roadblocks.

1:58:42 The things that I see that most commonly disrupt a person’s ability to really create their dream or what they want in life or be healthy. So, there’s 12 key lessons that go in the order that I think that they should be studied for an integrated adult. Um, there’s more, but I think those are the main ones that I want to suggest to people. I have over 550 videos, as I’ve mentioned, on my YouTube channel. There’s tons of great stuff on JKA, and some of my podcasts, which are extended.

1:59:16 We do the first part on the podcast, and we put the rest on Jaka. And I did one called the Honest Vegetarian with my senior instructor Matthew Walden, who lives in London, who’s an osteopath and a naturopathic physician. And we did a five-part series. Each of them is like almost two hours, and it’s probably the most comprehensive investigation into all aspects of diet, from the physical to the biochemical to the mental to the emotional to the spiritual.

1:59:45 And we did this in response to The Game Changers video, because once again, I just got so sick of seeing people lied to and confused. And uh, so, I, we, me and Matt took each of the different diet approaches, from hardcore veganism and vegetarianism all the way to hardcore meat eating, and showed the pros and cons of each of them, and look at many, many factors such as belief systems and isms, and really took diet on and said, here’s how you navigate this minefield, and the only way through it is to be honest with yourself and learn how to feed yourself based on what your body’s needs and what your symptoms are telling you you need. That any dogma is very, very dangerous.

2:00:26 It becomes, uh, really a belief that has more power than your body’s own inner language, which is dangerous.

2:00:34 Wow, that sounds fascinating. Um, I’ll definitely check that out. Paul, uh, next time we need to do this in London or San Diego in person so we can

2:00:43 Love it, man. I’ve got to get you out here. It’s much nicer here than in London.

2:00:46 Oh, come on. London’s nice.

2:00:49 Not like this. I’ve seen your pictures of your pad, so that’s good. But I’ll take you to Hampstead Heath, and we’ll jump in the pond next time you come in London. You know, we have our moments here. Um, but

2:01:01 Yeah, no, I spent a lot of time there.

2:01:04 I really appreciate you. I appreciate all your work. I’ve been following you for a long time. Again, I, you know, we could probably go on for hours, but we really got into some nice juicy stuff here. So, I think people really appreciate it.

2:01:15 And if they want to know more, they can go over to your site and to your um JKA and also to your podcast as well. And um, yeah, no, I really appreciate you got me thinking about a lot of the things that you just spoke about, um, even more. And um, yeah, I just appreciate all the work you put in, um, on all different aspects and the fact that you’ve just been out there as a pioneer in these fields, you know, before it became kind of the popular thing to do on the internet.

2:01:40 So, um, yeah, thank you for the time, and, uh, next time let’s do this in person. Yeah, and I forgot to mention my book, How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy, is on Amazon, or you can get it from the Chek Institute. But really, that book is sort of an operator’s manual for the human body and the human mind. And I gave everybody the absolute essentials. And the reason I wrote the book is because after about 10 years in clinical practice, it finally dawned on me, why do I have to wait till people are sick and broken to tell them what I have to say to everyone?

2:02:09 Because nobody can get healthy without all this stuff. So for years I’d had a professional artist making handouts for me because I had to teach people how to read their poop. I had to teach them, you know, body, mind, spirit, all these things, how the gut works. So I just said, “Okay, I’ve got to give this to the public at a reasonable cost.” I took all my patient handouts, strung them together, and that’s How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy.

2:02:29 So now for 25 bucks, you can learn what I have to tell everyone, no matter whether you got, you know, injured back or a disease or a psychological crisis, because that’s the foundation of health and wellness. Excellent stuff. People get on Amazon, or I’m sure there’s links on your website as well. So, uh, great stuff, Paul. Thank you so much for being you.

2:02:48 Uh, next time we’ll do this in person, and, uh, sending you all the best to San Diego area for sharing so much great wisdom with the world. You are exactly the kind of person I say needs more airtime. Right. This is what I’m talking about. And uh, if it wasn’t for people like yourself, we would be deeper into the trap, because uh, if if, if guys and men and women like you don’t commit themselves to getting the truth out, even when it can come at a cost to us personally, there’s a risk for people like you telling the truth, and me.

2:03:23 But that’s the sacrifice, and that’s how you know you’re an adult and that you have a warrior’s heart, because you know what you must stand up for.

2:03:31 Yeah.

2:03:31 So, thank you. No, I really appreciate you saying that, because it’s been tested lately, and, uh, yeah, it’s been confirmed, because we just know some of this information is so powerful. People like you said, Bruce Lipton and all these other messages. So, yeah, we’re going to keep doing this. Uh, they can try to stop us, but we’re just going to keep doing it on any channel possible.

2:03:50 Uh, people love these conversations. We’re going to keep putting them out unscripted, unedited, so people can consume them and make their own decisions as adults. So, that’s the plan. Uh, thank you, Paul Chek. Appreciate you, and, uh, sending you all the best, and next time we’ll do this in person.

2:04:05 Lots of love. Thank you very much.

2:04:07 Thank you to all of you.

2:04:09 All right, cool.

2:04:09 Take care, sir. All right. And thank you all for watching London Real. We’ll see you next time. Bye-bye.