Dr Micheal Robillard

Full transcript: Dr Micheal Robillard on London Real

1:06 This is London Real, I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Dr Micheal Robillard, recent graduate of our Broadcast Yourself, Life Accelerator, Business Accelerator. Welcome. Thanks for having me here. Tell us a little bit about you. Where are you from, what do you do? So it’s somewhat of a long story.

1:31 Born in Brockton, Massachusetts, grew up there, and went to the Military Academy, West Point, in ’98, was commissioned in 2002, went down to Fort Benning, did the Benning School for Boys package, Ranger, Airborne, Infantry. Went to Iraq and caught up with my unit in Baghdad in June of 2003 with the 82nd Airborne Division, was with them running patrols until the beginning of 2004. That was my only tour.

1:59 Got out in 2007 and decided that I was very concerned about the ethics of killing and why we go to war, and under what conditions people ought to go to war and how they ought to conduct themselves in war. So I then proceeded to get a master’s degree in philosophy and then a PhD in philosophy, focusing on the ethics of killing and the ethics of war, and just recently have started a postdoctoral position at the University of Oxford, focusing broadly in this area.

2:33 Where did you get your graduate degrees, in the States or here? So it was my master’s at the University of Victoria in British Columbia. My undergrad was at West Point, my PhD was at the University of Connecticut. Okay, and what’s it like to be a former military man in these academic circles? You must be unique. I think so, yeah. I think it’s an odd overlapping space where I encounter a lot of very more ivory tower, high church theoretical folks, and coming from the practitioner side of the house, it’s odd.

3:11 It’s odd being in that space, because I think that both sides have something to offer. I think that those dialogues are actually mutually supportive and they need to talk to one another. I think the high church theoreticians have something to offer to the practitioners, and the voice of the practitioner and of the common soldier’s experience has something very vital to offer to the things that are informing theoretical discussions.

3:42 So I find myself in a bizarre middle space, trying to connect that dialogue a bit better. And have your views of war changed in the last 10 years? If you had to summarise it, I’m sure it’s complex. Yeah, I would say traditionally there was a thought that conventions of war split the moral domain of tactical on-the-ground decisions and separated that from political-level grand strategic considerations. That division I don’t think exists anymore.

4:22 So that, for instance, you look at Lynndie England from that photo from Abu Ghraib. Tactical-level, lower-level type person doing something tactical, ostensibly. That decision to take that photo at Abu Ghraib did more for ISIS or al-Qaeda recruitment than any ISIS or al-Qaeda recruitment effort. So endemic to any tactical moment are these broad, sweeping political implications.

4:47 So I think the young soldiers and tactical-level practitioners need to be thinking about the broad-scale ethical reasons why we fight, and their concern can’t just be contained to that one little tactical moment. It’s actually quite broader. Interesting. You know, I had Dr Philip Zimbardo here, who did the Stanford Prison Experiment, and, you know, he obviously made a lot of comparisons to that and Abu Ghraib, and just how kind of humans can get to this point.

5:23 And what a lot of the interesting factors were, that was actually like a night shift and they were kind of isolated, these guards. But just like those pictures, I mean, like I said, those will always be remembered. That was kind of shocking, and like you said, it really changed… I mean, that can have huge geopolitical, you know, consequences, more so than anything else. So that’s really fascinating.

5:41 What brought you to us? You know, you’re in Oxford doing your thing. I know Broadcast Yourself was the first time you came to the Academy, but why? I think I was more frustrated, I suppose, about the level of discussions that I was seeing between the civil and military sphere regarding things like war and treatment of soldiers.

6:07 So there’s more domestic issues that I was frustrated about. If you go to any college campus, you can likely find very sort of nuanced and sophisticated views voiced by students about things like gender or race or environmental issues. But if you ask them, what do you think about your relationship to war, or your relationship to soldiers or veterans, you get rather platitudinous answers of, I support the troops, thank you for your service, 22 push-ups for veteran suicide.

6:38 But beyond that, it’s a very shallow, bumper-sticker kind of answer that papers over, I think, a whole set of difficult questions that persons ought to be asking within the civilian society. So to consider what your relationship is to soldiers or to veterans really warrants one’s consideration of what is the relationship to the war itself, that has been outsourced effectively onto 1% of the population to handle and to sort through, whilst everybody else kind of goes about their business.

7:11 So I just feel like there was an absence within contemporary dialogue about that issue, and that was the desire to start the podcast, to bring a greater attention to veteran voices and to soldier voices. It’s really interesting. You know, I’ve been thinking a lot about death lately with our current film project, Dissolution, and there’s this book called The Denial of Death, which I’m sure we’ll be talking about tomorrow night at graduation dinner.

7:45 And this concept of kind of how we build up our fallen veterans with the kind of statues to explain our own death and existence. And like you said, it’s really easy to kind of, we support the troops and our fallen soldiers and let me do some push-ups, without really understanding this weird, complex narrative that creates our entire value system as a society and justifies sometimes senseless deaths of our own sons and daughters. It’s really complex.

8:09 Yeah. And again, like Jordan Peterson said when he was here, he said we’re realising people aren’t as stupid as we thought they were. And with this whole long-form discussion, yeah, people really can dig down and appreciate and come up with their own nuanced views of the world. And war and veterans and all of this stuff is something that I really think is massively worth exploring.

8:25 You know, we both know the Jocko podcast, and I’d be really curious to get your thoughts on him. He has one view, a very complex view of war, and he does some things that are really interesting, but it’s the only one that I know that really has an ongoing credible discussion. Yeah, we need more of that. Yeah. You know, what was it like… well, first of all, before I get into that, why London Real?

8:55 I think, I mean, I knew that you were out there for four years, and I remember seeing just little bits and pieces of, like, five-minute clips of you talking to somebody. And then I saw, I think it was the Dan Hardy interview that you did, was the first one that I recognised. Oh, wait a second, like, the studio has changed. It was really interesting looking at Dan Hardy, because I’m like, wow, this is a really cerebral, introspective guy, and I always sort of knew him as the Mohawk MMA fighter.

9:24 And I remember thinking, well, this is really cool. Saw bits and pieces of the Elliott Hulse and Ido Portal interviews. I think there’s a Jocko interview, obviously, really, really spoke to me, and I thought, I want to do something similar. I want to have real discussions, long-form discussions about these issues that I’m somewhat of an expert in, and that I care about, and that my peers and my friends are experts in and care about.

9:54 And I know how to do it, okay, so I got like a couple books, and just, you know, there’s at some point you got to go, look, just go to the experts, pay the money and let them teach you, as opposed to trying to reinvent the wheel. So when I saw the ad for Broadcast Yourself, I’m gonna get this, this guy knows what he’s doing. You can kind of recognise quality when you see it.

10:17 I go, that’s professional. Like, I’m just gonna see how this goes. And I was very, very impressed with just what a well-oiled machine London Real was in terms of building people up past their resistance, to not just get through the nuts and bolts of building a podcast, but actually doing the inner work to figure out what it is that they care about that’s gonna fuel that podcast.

10:42 And then the Business Accelerator and the Life Accelerator, I think they’re natural extensions of that, right? They’re just sort of an expansion of the seed that is the podcast. Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. What was it like when you first got dropped into Broadcast Yourself? Because, you know, from the outside you’re looking in, and then, you know, we go pretty deep pretty fast.

11:02 Yeah. So you’re thrown in this group, I think we had 150 people around the world on this course. I’m throwing out a lot of modules, work, two live calls a week with me, accountability doc. Yeah. What was that first week or two like? I mean, at first it was a bit disorienting, and just trying to plug into the pace of the community. Chris Albert was my team leader, and talking with Chris, I think that was pivotal in terms of me staying on point with things.

11:32 Pushing through resistance, quieting the voice in my head that said, you know, you can do it later, you can do it later. Talking to Chris, I think, was exceptional in terms of getting me over those humps, because he was former military. Yeah, okay, so he speaks your language. Pretty much. Okay. And we became fast friends because of this course. Chris is amazing. Yeah. And so he got you kind of on board and on track to this whole piece.

11:57 Yeah. What was this community like? You know, you got all these people from all around the world, unlike you, but who all want to broadcast. Yeah. What was that experience like? It was really cool. It was just the number of, like, unique things that people… so, I have an idea for this, I have an idea for that, and I’m thinking, yeah, I would listen to that, that sounds really cool. I’ve never thought about combining these two things together, but yeah, that sounds neat.

12:26 And just that, yeah, the plurality of different voices, how international it was. It was pretty nuts that we’d be on a live call and you’d have people from all conceivable time zones checking in and sort of riding one another’s enthusiasm. And the other interesting thing is you would see moments in the group where there’d be a dip in somebody one week, and then the equilibrium of the group would sort of pick that person back up.

12:49 And then somebody else would dip and then pick them back up, but then I had a dip too. But then it was like, reminding of Ranger School somewhat, because everybody has bad days, but the chance that everybody at the same time is gonna have a bad day is almost nil. So there is this sort of whole being greater than the sum of its parts sort of moment, that you can ride the energy and the enthusiasm of the group. And I think that’s a great feature that I think you’ve built into the courses, and I think that’s a great element of it.

13:21 Yeah, I mean, the greatest asset is the people in there, really. I mean, we’re really proud of our coursework and our blueprint, our outline, but, like, you guys end up becoming your own support structure, and it’s just amazing how it works. What did you struggle with? What was hard? My biggest… I mean, Chris helped me get through this as well, and we talked about how, you know, within the military, the telos and purpose and function of the military is defence of the people.

14:00 The telos and purpose of academia is the generation of knowledge. And for me, I was trying to figure out, well, am I gonna look like a sellout to my military community and to the academic community if I just start trying to overly brand myself or try to put a dollar value on the knowledge that I have? It seemed somewhat… I wanted to have an authentic voice, but without it being overly selling out. That was my big worry, trying to get over that.

14:33 Did you find a solution to that? Yes, yeah, I think so. I think there’s a way that you can do it that’s not going overly salesman-y. I think it can still run something that’s true to the spirit of authentic communication, and without selling out the military community or branding my, you know, my service.

15:04 Yeah. What was your best moment in the class? What was like the highlight? You remember a breakthrough or something? Probably seeing the damn thing on iTunes. I go, oh, what the… like, it’s real. It’s like Frankenstein, it’s alive. And right, it wasn’t a thought in my head anymore, it was a real live thing in the world, with, you know, 30 audience members. But that’s 30 people in the world that took time out of their day to listen to me and my friends talk about something we care about. That was pretty cool.

15:37 Yeah, and you started cranking out episodes, right? I mean, you were getting things done. Yeah, well, there’s a whole host of people in the military and academic community, they care very much about this type of stuff, but it’s just… yeah, so I have so many people that want to be on the show, and they have some great ideas that it would be an honour to give them a platform. What was an unexpected outcome from the course, or a connection with something that you just didn’t see coming?

16:08 I would say advancement with… I mean, this is more speaking of the Business Accelerator now. Yeah, so you finished Broadcast, and then you went right into Business. Yes. I thought, look, this is the broadcasting antenna of some proto thing that’s bigger than just that. So I want to build an institution platform at Oxford that speaks to these concerns, and then can be a hub for scholarship, can be a hub for public engagement, and could also bring in, you know, military practitioners to hear from the world’s experts.

16:53 So that was the Business Accelerator thing. It was just the Broadcast Yourself ethic on steroids, with more moving parts. And it was well received at Oxford, and I’ve been given the green light by a lot of people to sort of build a platform and start establishing a bigger institutional footprint at the University. Yeah, ’cause something happened there, because obviously on Business Accelerator…

17:24 It’s, in a weird way, the Business Accelerator, there’s more moving parts than Broadcast Yourself. I’m just trying to get people to put episodes under their belt, because once they do that, they grow. Yeah. Business Accelerator, I mean, there’s things to do. You know, it’s the idea, you’re proving it, you’re doing websites, doing social media, recording the product, you’re on video, you’re running webinars, you’re selling, you’re partnering.

17:41 So that course, I know you were pushing ahead with that, while also, like, this university there, and you’re not sure what was going to happen, right? Yeah. And then they kind of found out about it. Can you tell me that story and what happened, and the resolution there? Yeah, well, they pretty much said, look, this is, you know, we like the initiative. You know, your show of initiative is really good. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel, though.

18:06 We have a lot of the institutional apparatus at Oxford to begin with, so why not just establish this platform, but have it be an official Oxford sort of entity, as opposed to this aberrant side thing that I’m doing in parallel with my academic career. How does a business go together with a place like Oxford? Well, I mean, once again, I think that the telos or the function of academia is somewhat different from business, insofar as it’s supposed to be generating knowledge for knowledge’s sake.

18:39 And that is gonna be substantively different from a business that’s going to have more of just a profit type end state. That being said, there’s a tremendous amount of overlap in terms of principles. If you’re generating knowledge, you want to be able to know how to effectively produce it, how to effectively distribute it to people who care. You want to have a method by which persons can give back, so that you can then make more knowledge.

19:18 And that life cycle shares something very similar with something that has, I guess, maybe a more business-y product. Yeah. They saw that, and you saw that, and now you’re working in unison. Yeah. So it’s still gonna be a slow process, because there’s a lot of moving parts to this platform, but I’m confident that there’s a demand for it, and there are amazing, amazing people at Oxford that are chomping at the bit to help out and contribute.

19:50 It’s just, I got a Field of Dreams sort of, just, you know, build and they will come sort of. Yeah, I’m surprised. I remember hearing on the course, like, uh-oh, Oxford found out about Micheal doing it, and, like, what’s gonna happen. And then it was like, oh no, they were excited by that initiative. And it sounds like you taking the initiative on this course took you to another level that wouldn’t have happened if you would even, like, tried to discuss a collaboration, right?

20:14 Yeah, I mean, I think it’s all just sort of, you know, there’s a mutually supporting agreement that can be arrived at, and yes, Oxford wasn’t against it. You know, they just didn’t want me going, like, totally rogue, I suppose. Yeah. And I don’t need to, because it is a very mutually supportive thing. Okay, so two courses with us. Aren’t you sick of us by now?

20:46 The accountability, the live calls, I mean, they’re quite exhausting, those courses. Like, we get a lot done in eight weeks. Yeah. But you came back for Life Accelerator. Why? I was thinking to myself, well, I mean, once again, I like the professionalism in the way that you guys are running things. I like structure. I thrive well when there’s do this, do that. Yeah, I mean, unsurprisingly.

21:09 And I felt like, well, I have this antenna that’s attached to this new institutional platform. Now I need to step my own personal game up to be the type of person that has the good habits and inner capacities to pilot the ship correctly and efficiently. And to me, that made the most sense as far as just what was necessary to then pilot the ship correctly.

21:45 Yeah, I mean, it makes sense to me, because I am the embodiment of all these courses, right? Combining my own practices. But a lot of people, you know, they don’t want to look in the mirror. They go, look, I got a broadcast, I’m gonna do the business, oh, I work on me? I mean, a lot of people would just tell themselves a story, and you can tell yourself a really good story. I mean, look at all these things you’ve done, you’re at a great institution, you got a past. You know, a lot of people would skip that, I’m gonna work on me, so that’s pretty powerful that you went in.

22:10 What was a big takeaway for you on Life Accelerator, or did anything surprise you? I would say the biggest realisation for me, actually, is the combo. There’s a three-part combo of gratitude journaling, meditation, and the low information diet, particularly the last one, because it was really surprising when I started taking inventory of just how much my time was being eaten up, or I was being distracted by just, like, my damn phone.

22:42 And I’m thinking, wow, this is really antithetical to what the hell it is that I’m trying to do. If I’m supposed to focus and write and to think deeply about a particular issue, is this thing buzzing in my pocket, or sort of coming through my computer screen with all these distractions? It’s just a death by paper cuts kind of scenario.

23:05 Yeah, it’s like a tapeworm, really. And, you know, it can take like, you know, half of your capacity or more, just this stupid buzzing piece of metal and glass in your pocket. Got to go. Yeah. Yes, and then all the media that’s associated with it, like, we don’t realise, the Instagram, the Facebook, the YouTube, not to mention the texts and notifications. I mean, minimally. I mean, then you start thinking about other things like fake news and strategic disinformation campaigns.

23:30 And I mean, it’s just like your whole worldview could be really scrambled by a lot of pernicious actors. Yeah, and when you have to deep think, then that really kills it, because it not only stops your train of thought, then your bigger picture. So yeah. And gratitude journaling was noticeable, and the meditation? Yeah, I thought so, especially doing that right in the morning.

23:56 I think, you know, I think it’s very easy to get focused on being overwhelmed by the task at hand, and to not pause and take stock of just all the things to be grateful for, as opposed to always focusing on the negative new problem that needs to be solved. Yeah, and that quiet space in the morning is so important, and it sounds like nothing. It just sounds like, oh, you have an app and it’s a gratitude journal, and who cares, you know, might as well just brush your hair. But it’s like really a crucial part of being a good human.

24:35 Yeah. And then the meditation, like, we all know we could do it, but sometimes it takes a course like Life Accelerator to actually get you to do it. Yeah. And same with low media, like, you normally wouldn’t do it, but if we’re all doing it together and we’re watching you, it’s like, okay, I’m gonna give this a shot. Yeah, and it’s a really powerful practice. Yes, that adds up.

24:51 Yeah. I feel like with most habits, I figure, unless you’re very, very good at just, of your own accord, developing a new habit, I think doing it as a team puts that habit into place 300% better than just trying to do it on one’s own. Yeah, most definitely.

25:08 Tell me about you. What’s changed the most about you after all three of these courses? If we went out on the street right now and bumped into, you know, the Micheal who didn’t take this course, how is that guy different than you? I’m a lot less frustrated. I’m complaining a lot less. I think for a lot of the time, as I mentioned before, I was seeing dialogues in contemporary culture, on YouTube and the 24-hour news cycle, and kept thinking to myself, why aren’t people talking about this?

25:41 Why doesn’t someone start a podcast about this thing? Why? And it kept… it was me just sort of seething and not doing anything and complaining to myself, as opposed to saying, okay, I’m just gonna translate that frustration into creating the type of thing that I care about. And it’s released, I think, a lot of frustration that I otherwise would otherwise be, still pent up. Nice.

26:04 And talking about the communities, because you’ve been through a bunch of them now, other people from these groups that you’ve stayed in touch with and you’re connecting with, or they, you know, continue to help you on the journey? Yeah, I think, I mean, as I mentioned before, Chris Albert and I are now good friends, and I just did the second interview on his podcast yesterday. Cool. And so that’s been a wonderful takeaway. I think he’s a great person. We think a lot about similar things, similar concerns.

26:36 So yeah, definitely that, I think, was the great unexpected takeaway from this. And then likewise with the various accelerators, on occasion I’ll pop in, say hi to the different ones. I’ve been somewhat negligent of that, but there are some amazing people and creative people that I want to stay in touch with, and I look forward to that. Okay. You know, our Speak to Inspire course starts in a month. Are you gonna go for the full four, or do you not know yet?

27:07 I think I, in the military, need to take a tactical pause at the moment, but in the future, yeah, it definitely might be something I would consider. Yeah, I think, got to get you on the TED stage next, that’s the point. Yeah, you’ll be, like, bulletproof and unstoppable. To anyone who’s watching, who’s just unsure about this whole concept of the Academy and learning remotely and all this weird stuff, like, what would you say to them if they’re thinking about it?

27:24 I would say just to watch more London Real videos, and I think quality speaks for itself. I think if they just listen to the level of content that is coming from your guests, and the amount of vulnerability that persons are demonstrating, and that you yourself are demonstrating, if people just pay attention to that long enough, then the wisdom of trying out one of these accelerators will be self-evident. That’s pretty much what I would say. Cool.

28:01 It’s been great having you on. These things, it’s just, like, powerful, just your stories, how hard you’ve gone in, and, you know, just the fact that you’re still improving yourself, and again, you’re still going for it, which is really, really important. So thank you so much for being on this journey with us. I really thank you, Brian. I appreciate it.

28:18 No, and I can’t wait to hang out with everybody here for the graduation this weekend. Yeah, it should be an incredible time, and I’ll be watching you to see all the things you’re gonna accomplish in the future. And I know I got to get out to Oxford so you can beat my ass on the wrestling mat. The invitation’s always there, jiu-jitsu, right? So if you take care of me, I’ll come out and see you for that. Yeah. All right. As we say, it’s about the journey, man. I wish you all on yours. Thanks so much for going all in here.