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Ayahuasca, Bodybuilding, Spirituality, Sports, Strongman & Weightlifting

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Dorian Yates - Into The Shadow

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May 5, 2023

The Life & Legacy Of A Bodybuilding Legend

“I just outworked them, basically.”

In short: Dorian Yates is a six-time Mr. Olympia winner who came from Birmingham to dominate professional bodybuilding in the 1990s. He sat down with Brian Rose and co-host Nic Gabriel in the London Real studio for a frank conversation about high-intensity training, contest dieting, steroids, retiring at the top, ayahuasca and DMT, and the media.

Dorian explained how he reshaped the sport by training for under an hour, three or four times a week, with short, brutal workouts at a time when champions spent two hours in the gym six days a week. He educated himself from books, trained without a coach, and wrote down every workout from 1983 to 1997.

The conversation also covers what contest preparation does to the mind and body, his open account of steroid use over 12 years, and the sudden end of his career through a torn tendon. He then describes the search for meaning that followed, including his experiences with ayahuasca and DMT, and his belief that bodybuilding deserves more respect from the press.

Key takeaways

Short and intense beats long and exhausting. Dorian trained for less than an hour, three or four times a week, arguing that bodybuilding is not an endurance sport.
Write everything down. He kept every workout and diet from 1983 to 1997 and changed one thing at a time, keeping what worked and dropping what did not.
The diet is the hardest part. Getting to around 3% body fat meant eating less while training more, which he said is what separates the men from the boys.
Training comes first, steroids last. He ranked training, genetics, nutrition and steroids in that order and said steroids repair damage rather than build muscle.
Compete against yourself. Once he was number one, Dorian said the only person left to chase was himself.
Injury forced a new direction. A torn elbow tendon ended his career in 1997, and he now sees it as a blessing that pushed him to grow beyond a one-dimensional life.
Be realistic about a bodybuilding career. Only around ten or twelve professionals earn a really good income, so he told young lifters to set short-term goals first.

Against the grain: how Dorian Yates trained

Dorian began competing in the UK in the 1980s and worked his way up to a sport that was, in his words, basically American. He trained in Birmingham, a city with only a couple of small gyms, and beat the best Americans while still living in England. His approach was against the grain: very heavy, very intense sessions kept short, because he believed long workouts were counterproductive.

He had no coach and thought that nobody should know your body better than you do. He read as many books on nutrition and training as he could, tested ideas in the gym, and ignored older lifters who said he did not know what he was doing. At his first professional show in New York he finished second out of 26 competitors, which convinced him that if you are good enough, you are good enough.

Contest dieting and the discipline behind it

Dorian described the 12 to 14 weeks of dieting before a contest, when every instinct says eat and the plan says no. He estimated his body fat got down to around 3%, to the point where the fat pads in his feet were depleted and walking backstage hurt. He talked about broken sleep, food cravings and dreams about sausages, and a typical diet of egg whites, chicken breast, oatmeal, brown rice and vegetables.

He said the same discipline can be applied to any goal: pick a target, give up short-term pleasures, and be fanatical about the small things. He described his motivation as partly pride and partly mastery of himself.

Steroids, honesty and the state of the sport

Brian and Nic asked for an honest account of steroid use and Dorian gave one. He said steroids have been used in bodybuilding since the 1960s and in many other sports, that he used them on and off from 1985 to 1997, and that he had some water retention, acne and higher aggression but, with a doctor supervising his blood tests, no serious problems. He said the bigger risk today is that most products now come from underground labs rather than pharmaceutical companies.

He argued that athletes should be able to do what they like if the rules are the same for everyone, and that regulation would be safer than a black market. He also said that training, not drugs, builds muscle, and that genetics decide who wins: you can get bigger with drugs, but you cannot inject the proportions and structure of a champion. He thought the modern sport had put size ahead of condition and balance.

Life after Mr. Olympia: ayahuasca, DMT and questioning reality

Retirement was hard. Dorian called 1998 and 1999 tough mentally, with no all-consuming goal, and said he went through a period of depression before finding his balance through the supplement business, travel and a search for deeper answers. He described taking ayahuasca in Brazil, which made him ill, and later smoking DMT, which he said showed him that everything is connected and that the ego is the biggest problem we face.

He also shared views on the pineal gland, tap water, the media and cancer treatments that Brian and Nic discussed with him. These are Dorian’s personal beliefs as stated in the conversation, and they are not medical advice. He ended on a consistent theme: he feels a responsibility to be honest and to start people questioning things for themselves.

The Shadow, Arnold and the press

Dorian explained his nickname, the Shadow. As a young competitor he would win a show, disappear back to his gym in Birmingham, and turn up at the next contest to surprise everyone. He said it was not a strategy, just him being himself, though it unsettled rivals who trained together at Gold’s Gym in Venice, California.

He also spoke about Arnold Schwarzenegger, who criticised modern bodybuilding in the 1990s, about Mike Mentzer and the controversy over the 1980 Mr. Olympia, and about turning down television shows that wanted him to pose in his briefs rather than sit and talk. His point was that bodybuilding deserved the same respect as any other sport.

Who is Dorian Yates?

Dorian Yates is a British professional bodybuilder from Birmingham who won the Mr. Olympia title six times in a row in the 1990s. He started training in 1983, competed as a professional from the late 1980s and retired in 1997 after a torn tendon in his elbow. Nicknamed the Shadow, he went on to run his own nutrition line, Dorian Yates Nutrition, to train clients and to write a column for Muscular Development magazine.

Frequently asked questions

What was Dorian Yates training style?

He trained with short, very intense and heavy workouts, under an hour and three or four times a week, rather than the two-hour sessions common at the time.

Why was Dorian Yates called the Shadow?

He would win a contest, disappear back to his gym in Birmingham and say little, so rivals did not know what shape he was in. He said it was not planned.

Why did Dorian Yates retire?

He tore a tendon from his elbow in 1997 and, after surgery, felt he could not compete at his best, so he retired at the top of the sport.

What did Dorian Yates say about steroids on London Real?

He said he used them on and off from 1985 to 1997, with a doctor monitoring his bloods, and that training matters more than steroids because they repair damage rather than build muscle.

Where can I watch the Dorian Yates interview?

You can watch the full Dorian Yates interview free on this page, with the full transcript below the video.

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Full transcript: Dorian Yates on London Real

5:08 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. This is Nick Gabriel. And joining us today is Mr. Dorian Yates, who is a professional bodybuilder and a six-time winner of the Mr. Olympia title.

5:39 Welcome. Thank you very much for having me, guys. Something different, huh? Thanks for being here, man. It’s a real pleasure having you here. You know, we’ve had a lot of different people on the show before. We’ve had members of parliament. We’ve had best-selling authors authors like Graham Hancock, we’ve had Olympic athletes, but when I told people that Dorian was going to be on the show, it’s like, especially males, like this weird sense of awe comes across them and they talk about you almost in like a supernatural way and I was wondering if you could explain how you work in bodybuilding, why it has such a visceral, almost like carnal response from people like that.

6:15 Well, I started competing in the UK back in the 80s and quickly worked my way through the ranks to go to compete in the professional bodybuilding, which is, or was, and probably still is, basically an American-based sport. Most of the athletes and the whole industry is from the States. So I think the fact that I came from the UK, where we have, you know, basic facilities and the sport’s not that big here, and I was able to go from the UK and actually still training in the UK and going to beat the best guys in the world who mostly were US based.

6:59 I think that inspired a lot of people and a lot of guys that go to the gym during the 90s when I was at the top when I was Mr. Olympia. Of course I’m in all the magazines so I get tremendous feedback from people telling me that you know I was the first kind of guy that they saw in magazines and the gyms and everything and inspired them to go to the gym and to train and of course it is a you know it’s it’s a masculine sport I guess right you know you want to get bigger and stronger and so you can lift the most weights and build the best physique and everything so it is it is male you know very male sport I guess so perhaps that’s why you get the reaction think about this this guy sitting next to us in our studio was the best built human being on the planet for a large portion of the 1990s yeah that’s blow your mind that does kind of blow my mind and not only was I unique because I came from UK and previously all the champions were in the States training the States and everything like that. I came along with a totally new method of training, which was against the grain.

8:07 Pretty much everything I do has been against the grain, but it has worked for me. So my training approach and my training philosophy was much different from the people that came before me. So we were spending much less time in the gym, but the workouts were very, very intense and brutal. So before people were spending maybe two hours in the gym, six days a week and so on. But my belief was and still is that that’s counterproductive. You need to go in and give your body a very intense, sharp kind of shock for a short period of time.

8:36 So probably less than an hour in the gym and three or four times a week. So that was totally against the convention. But the physique that I was able to build with that kind of training was literally reshaped the sport. You know, it was a huge leap ahead and kind of a register, Roger banished a moment you know in running when he was the first guy to break the four-minute mile whatever and then Once he achieved that the people saw that was achievable then you know more people came along that was able to do that so I think I had that kind of effect in in bodybuilding and huge Effect on the way people approach the sport nutritionally your training wise and everything. So It’s more than Dorian Yates, you know, they’re great physique winning contests. It’s the influence I had on the sport, and kind of a no bullshit approach, you know, that I think people appreciate it.

9:29 Yeah, you know, speaking of your no bullshit approach, I remember reading an interview with you when I was maybe 16 or 17, it’s when I first really got into working out, and it was a transcribed interview in a magazine that you had given live just after Mr. Olympia, And some guy in the audience said, oh, Bill Phillips recommends you do this. And you just said to him, well, if you want to look like Bill Phillips, then go ahead and do that. And I thought that was just fantastic.

9:58 That was pretty much the proof is in the pudding. Yeah. This is your high-intensity training, like, systemally. Yeah, it’s very intense and heavy, but short. You know, bodybuilding is not an endurance sport.

10:10 You know, guys were spending two hours in the gym. They were breaking themselves down as much as building themselves up. So yeah, it’s a short, it’s very intense, it’s hard work, but it’s not a long period of time. And then as a bodybuilder, I mean, the rest of your job’s outside the gym. And that’s very taxing mentally and so on, because you’ve got to eat the correct food, the correct time, you’ve got to get enough rest, all these things.

10:34 So it’s pretty much, although you’re not in the gym 24 hours a day, it is pretty much a 24 hour day job. You never leave it behind. You play soccer, you play golf, the Chloe golf clubs in the cupboard and that’s it for the day you’re finished, but bodybuilding, it’s with you all the time. You’ve got to be conscious. You’ve got to what you’re eating, you’ve got to eat at certain times to get the most out of your training and so on.

10:55 Is it the hard part, resisting those temptations, resisting the pint or resisting the cakes? Is that the harder part of the job? For me anyway, for me going to the gym and lifting heavy weights, it’s hard work, but that’s fun, right? But to actually fight against all your instincts and everything that’s coming from your body. This is more the contest phase in the off season where you’re building more strength, you’re building more muscle, you’re building your body up.

11:24 Your diet’s somewhat still restricted but you’re eating quite a lot of food. When you’re getting ready for a contest and you’re trying to strip the body fat down and maintain as much muscle mass as you can which is basically a contradictory goal and so you’ve got to restrict your calories whilst you know most athletes if they’re going to train harder for competition or do more training, they’re going to eat more. That’s natural, right? With bodybuilding, you’re doing more training, you’re doing more cardio exercise, you’re still training hard with the weights and everything, but you’ve got to eat less food.

11:56 So every instinct in your body is telling you, you must eat, and you’re saying, no, I’m not. So it’s a challenge, which I always enjoy the challenge. So that’s the toughest part. That’s what separates the men from the boys. You see a lot of big guys walking around, but how many guys, the big guys, get into shape and win contests, that’s a different matter, that’s tough and that’s, you know, you’ve got to have a really firm goal in order to be able to deny the short-term pleasures.

12:25 That’s pretty much the advice I give to people. You must have a goal if you’re going to give up, you know, you’re going to be able to give up the short-term kind of pleasures and so on for the long-term goal. Of course most people are not competitive bodybuilders, a lot of people go to the gym, I just think you need to have a goal in mind, whatever that is. You want to lose a bit of fat, you want to build muscle, you want to put 10 pounds on your bench press.

12:48 It’s always good to have those goals in mind and that pretty much goes anything you do in life. You know, the things I’ve learned from bodybuilding and discipline and so on, you can apply that to anything, to business, to run into anything in life. You’re a big fan of writing goals down and being specific about the goals. I started training bodybuilding back in 83. And I retired in 1997 from competitive bodybuilding.

13:12 And I’ve got every workout written down from 1983 to 1997, every single workout. And I got them all in exercise books and everything was funny because I was showing them to my son about a year ago and showing like this is what I did. You know, I can see every workout and also writing down and all the different diets I did, if I changed my workouts, I would do one thing at a time so I could analyze, is this good or is this bad? If it works, I keep it, if it didn’t, I threw it out and eventually I got a game plan together, you know?

13:42 Is that expression, that that is measured, improves? And I guess you’re the living embodiment of that, right? Yeah, you know, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Keep it, if it’s broke, throw it out and don’t worry about it, you know? Just move along.

13:55 You know, I was reading Schwarzenegger’s autobiography And he said when he first started lifting seeing the way different people would lift really helped him out a lot because he would think I Can only do this and he’d see a guy blast through You know 10 more reps than he thought or an extra hundred kilos on the calf raise and he’d be like that’s an aha moment But these guys were all together in Venice Beach pushing each other now You got you in Birmingham in the middle of nowhere without without a lot of outside, you know stimulus How do you come up with the system? How do you get all these? I think because I’m very much an individual and perhaps that’s why bodybuilding appeal to me and you know, you’re not on a team right? It’s just you and Bodybuilding is not a bit Birmingham. It’s not a big bodybuilding town as you can imagine So there was only a couple little gyms there and a few guys few guys that were competing and so on But I was confident enough to educate myself by reading as many books as I could on nutrition on training and then going to the gym and actually trying things out and I was pretty picked it up pretty good if something wasn’t working I could sense it quite quite quickly and of course all the guys in the gyms who are older than me and more experienced and everything at the time were like what the hell are you doing this kid doesn’t know what he’s doing is you know but I wasn’t swayed by that I

15:14 I just stuck to my guns and the results spoke for himself. You didn’t have a coach, really. I didn’t have a coach. It’s quite popular now to have a coach and a nutritionist and all this kind of stuff. But for me, that was the fun part of it, you know, is learning, it’s your body.

15:30 If you listen to it, really, nobody should know better than you, you know, because you’re living inside it. So you should be able to sense which kind of training works better for you and nutrition and everything. Not to say that you shouldn’t listen to other people, I listened to a lot of people. But I took what I could and ultimately I decided whether this was working or not working. So having a coach was not something I would be comfortable with because I couldn’t just follow blindly what somebody else did.

15:58 Other people, they want that and they need that and they’re like that, you know? Like, you’re gonna train on this day, you’re gonna do this and you’re gonna eat that. And they feel that they’re an athlete and they’re gonna do their job and the coach is gonna tell them what to do. And of course, Americans are much, they’re used to that because at school, you know, I have a coach for basketball, football or whatever. So it was a little bit different and that’s very popular now to have a coach.

16:22 But for me, the whole appeal was this is an individual sport and I’ll be successful or I’ll fail. It’ll be down to me, you know. A lot of people were intimidated by the Americans, quote unquote, right? And yeah, when I started, everyone was like, shh, you know, they’re talking to me if these guys had 10 arms and 10 legs or something, they’re like me and you, they’re from the States and they have better gyms there. They have access to better nutrition and supplements and so on. Not so much now. Now it’s more even, but back then there was a big difference.

16:57 But they’re men. They’ve got two arms, two legs, and they’re like me and you and they lift weights and why not and so I didn’t accept that and then it was when I got to be British champion so I was the best guy over here and that qualified me to be a professional and go and compete in the States against the the big guys over there in the professional ranks and I didn’t get much positivity then it was like oh okay so now you’re kind of on a par physically with them but there’s a lot of politics involved and you know you don’t know the judges your picture has never been in American magazine, nobody knows you, all this is going to go against you. So if I’d have listened to that and take that as gospel, it probably would have gone against me, or I’ve gone with the wrong attitude, but my attitude was, I’m going to go there, I’m going to be the best that I can be, and if I’m really that good, it can’t hide me away somewhere, people are going to notice, they’re going to see, it’s going to be obvious.

17:55 I went to my first professional show in New York, and it was the first time I’d been to the States as well. When I was training in Birmingham, when I was in my early 20s, I didn’t have a car. I didn’t have money for a car. I didn’t have money for nothing. I spent half the day on the public transport, going from the gym to work and back again.

18:13 All that time I was just dreaming about what I could do with my physique and how it could win and everything. Anyway, I went to the States in New York and there was a big line up there. I think it was 26, 27 guys. A lot of guys who are well-known, they had publicity in the magazines and all that stuff. And I was there for five minutes.

18:34 And the New York crowd, they were known to be very vocal. They’re not shy people in New York, right? So I was wondering, how’s the crowd going to be and stuff? Within five minutes, from nobody in the auditorium knowing my name, I guess we walked out and the whispers went round. And after five minutes, people must know what my name was because I started to hear Dorian, Dorian, Dorian, that was amazing you know for me coming from the UK and not really knowing what to expect and all that stuff so at the end of the day I got second place there out of 26 guys and a lot of experienced professionals so I kind of spout to myself and said you know what it’s all bullshit you know like if you’re good enough you’re good enough right of course there’s politics and this and that it’s part of life right but if you’re good enough you know It’s about a building fairly transparent.

19:29 I mean, if you got the 27 guys on stage, I mean, will the best guy ultimately win or place in the top three? Well, you know, who is the best guy? Yeah. It’s a matter of opinion, right? Because it’s subjective.

19:40 You have seven people judging there. What they’ll do is they’ll have seven scores and then they’ll eliminate the highest and the lowest. So you end up with five scores from five people. And we have a criteria, you know, for the judging process that, you know, it’s body building, so you’re looking for, obviously looking for muscle mass, but the muscle mass should be proportionate, so it should be proportionately distributed. And of course, contest condition in bodybuilding means very low body fat, extremely low body fat.

20:17 What kind of percentages are we talking about? I’m not sure that there’s really an accurate way to measure body fat. I think underwater weighing is probably the most accurate, but I never had access to that. We used to use skin fall calipers, but I found once you get below a certain level, they don’t read that well anyway. Ultimately, it’s like you’ve got judges and the crowd sitting here and looking at you on stage, so they don’t know what your body fat is. They can’t measure So but I would guess that my body fat was somewhere around getting down to three percent. It was super low I remember a couple of concerts when I was professional at first I was walking around backstage and you know backstages so wooden floor like this, right?

20:59 And I like literally my feet were really hurting me and I was limping and people like you okay, dude You’re cramping up or something you dehydrated. I’m like no my fucking feet I couldn’t understand why my feet were really hurting me until I you know I looked in and that’s a bit more kind of saw there’s a fat pad under the heel and under your ball of your feet There’s a fat a pad there like, you know cushioning and I guess I you know, my body fat was that low that this Pad of fat on my feet was actually getting depleted It’s just so dangerously low levels aren’t there? Yeah, I mean It’s a temporary thing though. You’re not trying to maintain that for any period of time and they definitely wouldn’t be healthy.

21:39 You’re peaking for a contest. Probably take 12 or 14 weeks of specific dieting and training to get your body fat down to that level. And trust me, it doesn’t stay that long. It doesn’t stay that low for long, you know what I mean? A week after the contest, most guys have gone up 10, 15 pounds easily.

21:56 What was the one meal that you looked forward to the most? Or was the one that you always wanted to eat the most? Yeah, there’s nothing exotic. It was usually a really good steak, which was, you know, most, all the contests were in a state, so you can always find a good state there, right? Now I hear you can’t, but in a state you can.

22:13 Good basic steak and fries and a good ice cream and stuff like that, you know? But that’s what I had, but you know, your mind pays tricks with you. I used to fantasize about all kinds of strange food that never really would eat, or even when I finished my diet, I didn’t, I don’t want it now, but you know, because, I guess because you’re dietary fat intake and so on so low that you start craving spicy fatty foods and stuff and I used to have dreams like I remember one day waking up and just in a panic in the middle of the night because I had a dream that I went downstairs and had a load of sausages I didn’t really did I it wasn’t possible I don’t have sausages in the house but you know that’s that’s the kind of tricks your mind plays on you and nighttime is very tough when you’re dieting for a bodybuilding contest because it’s hard to sleep properly because basically you go to sleep your body wakes, you know, if your blood sugar drops below a certain level, it’s like an alarm system. You got to wake up, you got to eat. So the sleep is very, you know, it’s kind of broken sleep because you get that throughout the night.

23:15 What’s your diet like when you’re cutting like those last four weeks? Well, keep in mind that when I was competing, I was around 260, 270 pounds. So if I looked my diet that I was eating for a contest is probably more calories than I eat on a daily basis right now, but We’re talking about 4,000 calories But in the off-season, I’ll be like 6-7,000 calories So it’s quite a drop gradually from that level and of course, you know You carry massive amounts of muscle tissue and you’re working out and everything. So there’s a lot of demand on your body But it’s over a period of time I generally tried to lose two or three pounds a week over about 12 weeks or something like that, you know Typical diet was mainly lean proteins like ed whites chicken breast protein shakes, maybe a lean beef Those are the protein sources and then the fats were fairly low some carbohydrates from oatmeal Brown rice and a lot of vegetables obviously broccoli spinach things like that a little bit of fruit, but not too much Hey, Darren, you know, sooner or later Brian and I had to bring this up.

24:27 You tweeted out on a couple of days ago that you were going to pull no punches on the show. And we’re not sensationalist people. We’re not going to try and trick you, but we really would like an honest account of steroid use in bodybuilding. No problem, man. Can you tell us about it?

24:47 Can you tell us what you use? Can you tell us what the guys are using nowadays? I mean, is there anything you’d like to start with? I mean, I think the first Mr. Olympia was 1965, I believe.

24:58 Larry Scott won the first Mr. Olympia in 1965. And Larry Scott’s on record saying that he used steroids for that. So steroids have been used in bodybuilding and other sports since the early 60s. One of the earliest steroids available is Dynaboll.

25:19 And this was actually produced for the US athletes, because the Eastern Bloc had their equivalent. So the US developed this, and that’s pretty much how it got developed. And what are steroids, first of all, and how do they work? Steroids are derivatives of testosterone, which is a male hormone. Gives you your male characteristics.

25:44 And it also has ability to build and repair tissue. So they used to give it to people, for instance, in hospital situations, if they got burns and so on, because the tissue is damaged and it needs help to repair more quickly. So that’s what bodybuilders use steroids for. Any athletes where increased speed and strength is required, trust me, they are using them. that bodybuilders is maybe more of a minor sport with we don’t have major sponsors that we need to you know keep happy and all that kind of stuff so we can be more open about it and just say oh yeah we use we use them but trust me they’re using other sports maybe not as much in some sports but they use you got people that are in a competitive sport you got competitive people and they’re gonna do what it’s ever is required to perform the best in their sport. So steroids are derivative of testosterone and male hormone and so what the scientists tried to do is minimize the masculine effects and maximize the anabolic or the repair building effects of testosterone. That’s what steroids are basically and yeah they’ve been used in bodybuilding, they’ve been used in track and field and American football and baseball and Whatever, all these sports, they’ve been used since the mid-60s, early 60s.

27:06 So there’s nothing new under the sun here. And you’re able to train harder and recover more quickly. I think your body gets to a point with training where to increase the response, you’ve got to increase the training and make it more stressful, more stressful. It gets to a point where your body just kind of plateaus, because it can’t recover from this stress anymore. So it just plateaus, because your body’s intelligent, right?

27:36 If I keep responding, this guy keeps putting stress on me, and it’s going to be never ending. So at some point, it’s going to find a balance, and just you’re not going to respond anymore. And that’s where steroids work. They can get you over that barrier, because you’re increasing your body’s ability to recover from the stress. So a lot of people look at bodyables and, ah, look at these guys.

27:56 They just take steroids. Because we look so different, you know? You know, huge muscle mass veins and no body fat for competition. We don’t look that all the time. That’s a competition look.

28:06 But because we look so different, it’s obvious you can point a finger and say, look at this guy. He takes steroids. Well, a little skinny 10-stone guy that zips around mountains all day long and they tour to France. He looks like a normal dude walking down the street. But trust me, those guys are used as much pharmaceuticals as any other sport, you know?

28:26 So they’re used in all sports, pretty much, it’s just the degrees. I’m really interested in both the positive and the negative effects. Like when you were in hard competition training and you were doing cycles of DECO or De-en-able, wherever it was you were using, I know it’s my understanding, I don’t know if it’s true, I’d like your answer. You were one of the first bodybuilders to experiment with growth hormone and… Well, I don’t think so.

28:51 I used growth hormone in the early 90s and it had been used before that. Oh, okay, okay. I don’t really think so, growth hormone is another thing, growth hormone can increase muscle mass and minimise body fat, but it’s not, just because of the name, growth hormone, it sounds like it’s, you know, but combined with steroids, I think it took everything to a different level. You know, Schwarzenegger and those guys in the 70s, they were just using steroids. When the growth hormone came in, I think it allowed people to get, you know, to help them to get to a higher level.

29:22 It had an influence, but not huge. Okay, so I’m quite interested to know, you’re in your competition phase, you’re putting the stuff in your body, and personally I don’t make any judgments on that. I think you did what you had to do to peak in your sport. I’d just like to know what kind of things you experienced, obviously you became bigger and stronger and you healed more quickly, but were there any negatives? Did you ever get bad mood swings?

29:47 I guess that every drug there’s negatives, but I can only speak from personal experience. For me, I took steroids on and off, you know, on and off from when I was competing amateur competitions, you know, British Championship level, up into professional level from 85 to 97 when I retired. So that’s 12 years of fairly consistent use. And of course, athletes don’t use the recommended dose of steroids. They use way more than their recommended dose.

30:23 But I can say, in all that period of time, I did probably get some side effects, like water retention, some acne. Yes, your aggression levels definitely are higher. But it depends what you do with that aggression. You know, I took it out. I utilized it for my training in the gym.

30:41 You’re more positive, you’re more aggressive. that’s great for training. But if you’re out somewhere and you have a few points and you’re in a club or something, it’s probably not a good thing. And I’ve seen people that work in that environment work on the doors and things like that. They get themselves into trouble because of this.

30:58 But it varies again from one person to another. We all know that alcohol can make people lower their inhibitions and make them more aggressive. And one guy can have a few points and turn into a total aggressive asshole. somebody else could be totally chilled you know so it depends on the individual because you know the mainstream media would have us believe that you know you did you say you cycled steroids for 12 years and you should have like a horn growing out of your forehead now you know but you look like a relatively healthy guy you look better than my dad than when he was 15. I gotta say of any pharmaceutical drugs that you could take for 12 years way over the dosage that’s recommended that’s gonna be a very mild drug I mean this is a hormone you know I got a friend who is now looking at a kidney transplant and because he destroyed both of his kidneys.

31:48 He was a bodybuilder. And I asked him, no, it wasn’t for his steroids. I don’t know anybody that’s had, you know, you’d have to really, really super abuse it and take the piss before you’d get any severe side effects. This guy is talking about having a kidney transplant and losing his kidneys because he talk neurofen and neurofen is over the counter drug you know if you get a bottle of aspirin from the pharmacy now and drink that and take a whole bottle of aspirin they’ll burn through your stomach line and you’ll die you know neurofen this destroyed the guy’s kidneys and these are things you can get over the counter you know so that kind of puts it in perspective a little bit I think so hypothetical scenario you mentioned you have a son he came to you and said dad like I’m thinking of doing a cycle would I mean you’d be cool with that? Well he’s 20 years old so that’s already happened. Yeah absolutely I mean if if you decide, I tell people look, if you’re thinking about it look at all the facts, get as much information as you can, factual information. I mean when I started doing it in the mid 80s there were a couple of underground books that are out there, I mean photocopied underground steroid book from Dan Duchain that was probably the only thing out and then there was another book anabolic steroids in sports by Dr. James Wright, who on both these guys I actually met as well.

33:11 That was about it. I mean, there’s no internet. No, you know, there’s just gym rumors and stuff. And actually, back in the 80s, we were very cautious because we did think, shit, this stuff, you know, I’ve heard it can damage your liver and all these things. And I was very lucky they had a doctor that supervised all my blood tests and everything throughout the years and there was nothing there were anything in those blood tests for results for him to show any concern and say hey you know you’ve got to give it a break or you should stop doing this and everything but if you’ve ever seen a film called Super Size Me about a guy that ate McDonald’s three times a day after he did that for two weeks his blood results were so off the chart his doctor was begging him to stop so two weeks of eating McDonald’s three times a day was much worse than me taking steroids for 12 years.

34:03 Did you ever have a hard time sourcing them? Did that ever affect your training? No, no, no, it was, you know, they were freely available back in the 80s and 90s and there’s less availability now because in the 80s and 90s what you had was steroids that were produced by legitimate pharmaceutical companies and there was a lot on, you know, floating around. that’s pretty much dried up and all the steroids are available now, at least the great majority of them, they’re black market, they’re underground. So they’re made in underground labs. They might be good, they might not be.

34:41 Can you take all this, Brian? I mean, I was never trying to get huge, you know, but… Just naturally huge. Yeah, right. It just seems so dangerous because it’s like in this sport and in many sports, people are going to take them because they’re competitive. But there’s no science, there’s no direction, you’re getting them from the guy in the locker room, and then you’re tripling it because you’re an intense competitive person.

35:03 What’s the way, what’s the solution to that problem? I mean, there’s a bigger problem now because you don’t know really what you’re getting. I mean, it’s usually, I guess they’re made in sterile circumstances most of the time, but it’s not a pharmaceutical company, so you can never be sure of that. Because it’s not controlled and it’s a profit business, then of course people are going to be cutting corners and you’re probably not getting, you know, some of the doses that I hear about people taking now, I mean, it just freaks me out, it’s scary.

35:34 But then I’m thinking, but are they really taking that much? Because perhaps what they’re taking is only a 50% strength or something, perhaps that explains it. Just to me, it’s another example of how government intervention and crackdown fucks things up. Like the war on drugs just made shittier drugs, like, you know what I mean? underground sources.

35:53 If everything was just regulated and you’re taxed on your steroids the same way you could be regulated and taxed on the marijuana joint you buy in Amsterdam, it would be a way better system for everyone. It would be way better if all drugs were non-criminalized. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. You know, it would take away a lot of problems. How do you think it should be treated in other sports, you know, like the Tour de France you were talking about earlier, Olympics?

36:14 I mean, do you think we need to get to a point in the future where steroids are allowed and they’re regulated and tested? My opinion is that, yeah, the guys should be able to do what they want to do because the media’s like pointing fingers at people and, oh, look at this guy’s a cheat. How is he a cheat when everyone else is on the same playing field, you know, on the same level? And, you know, Lance Armstrong now, you know, what a tremendous individual that is.

36:43 And now he’s getting his name, they’re trying to drag it through the mud because he used EPO and stuff to, you know, but so is everybody else using it. So what? I had that realization the other day that came out about Lance, and I was like, oh, he’s on drugs. And then I woke up the next day, and I was like, so was everyone else. And he got up the hill.

36:59 But he’s still the champion. Yeah. Right? Because he pushed himself. And we got this saying in bodybuilding, like, if you took the steroids away, the guy that’s number one would still be number one.

37:08 You know? He might be 20 pounds lighter, but it’d still be better than the other guys, you know? So it’s like whatever percent it gives you, it gives it to everybody. Yeah. I think very few people are training in their particular sport and they think, oh, you know, if steroids are going to be the answer for me, what happens is they reach the plateau you spoke of and they take steroids so that they can train harder, so that they can do more work.

37:30 Well, when I started in the sport in the 80s, anyone that was taking steroids at that point was a serious, competitive bodybuilder. And, you know, it was something you considered serious. I didn’t take any for, like, until I was doing my first competition, you know, I wanted to learn about training, I wanted to learn about nutrition, and, you know, get something out of it. Now, there’s way more people that take steroids now. It goes across all sections of society.

37:58 You know, you see people in the movies now that obviously are using steroids. People in hip-hop, you know, it’s fashionable to have a physique. These guys are all using steroids. High school kids now in the States. High school kids.

38:09 I’ve got people that come to my gym. They never, ever have any intention of going into a bodybuilding contest, But they just see it as a shortcut to get the physique and the look that they want to get. Personally, my advice would be unless you compete, and I wouldn’t really consider it, but times have changed now, and now it’s, you know, everybody knows about steroids, right? One of our fans asked about some of the Weeder magazines, the muscle magazines, and how they give training advice, but they don’t ever make reference to the drugs.

38:41 It’s almost like this big elephant that’s in the room when they read these magazines. But isn’t that the same with all the sports? You know, don’t we watch the Olympics and pretend it’s all good and nobody’s using any drugs or anything unless they get a positive drug test? Yeah, I just think for me it’s quite a difficult thing because when you’re a young kid and you’re 15 and you’re reading a bodybuilding magazine and you read how Ronnie Coleman is doing 30 super sets, you know, but he’s taking this whey protein, and then you want to go and emulate that, and you wonder why you can’t walk for three days afterwards.

39:19 It doesn’t explicitly say Ronnie Coleman is also taking this stack of steroids, et cetera, et cetera. Well, that used to be the case. Now, I write for a magazine called Muscular Development. It’s probably one of the biggest magazines in the sport, maybe bigger than what used to be the Weeder magazines, which was flex and muscle and fitness. And I got my column in there, and I think I’m the first guy, or I’m the only guy, professional, definitely the only Mr. Olympia that wrote, I wrote an article in there about steroids and was totally honest.

39:50 I even listed what I used, how I used it, what my opinions were and everything, because I thought, listen, you know, the best policy is just to be honest, but I understand the dilemma because the question I ask myself is if I’m totally honest and I put all this stuff down. Am I going to be encouraging some kid that’s young that shouldn’t be doing this yet? But surely it’s better to just put it out there and people can make their own decisions. And I was able to do that in the magazine where I had no problem with that.

40:21 Where in the past that would have been, you know, it would have been a no, no. Because the Weeder empire wanted to present this image of bodybuilding and they didn’t want us to talk about steroids. That’s interesting. You once said training, genetics, nutrition, steroids, in that order. Absolutely.

40:42 Yeah. Yeah. Because without the training, let’s put it this way. If you sit on your ass at home and watch TV and take steroids, what’s going to happen? Nothing.

40:53 You might get a bit bloated and hold a bit of water. Nothing’s going to happen. But if you just trained and didn’t take any steroids and just ate a normal diet, something would happen, right? get some response. So therefore training is more important than steroids. Because if you just trained and you didn’t take steroids, you would get some results. If you just took steroids and trained, you wouldn’t get any results. Steroids don’t build muscle. Let’s get that right. They repair damage. You’ve got to go to the gym to create that damage and lift some weights in the first place.

41:24 One of the quotes of yours that I read quite recently, I had read it before, you said that genetics can be broken through hard training, do you still believe that? Genetics can’t be broken, you can’t change your genetics, maybe there’s a misquote, but a guy, let’s say you’ve got a guy that’s super gifted, somebody who’s not as gifted as him can make up the difference through hard work, that’s pretty much my point. I’m sure there were guys that I competed against who had phenomenal physics, but they were were not anywhere near as dedicated as I was.

42:00 I just outworked them, basically. I just outworked them, yeah. If they worked as hard as me, and I’ve been recording and saying this, there’s a couple of guys that worked as hard as me and as dedicated as me and as consistent as me. I mean, it’s not just about training hard for a couple of months here. We’re talking about the results of consistency of 10 years of dedication, day in, day out.

42:21 Absolutely getting the most out of each day. Every workout to be as good as it could be. every day in the nutrition to be as good as it could be and to be eating at the right time, everything. I was fanatical about everything. So all those little things add up to making a big difference.

42:38 So if my competitor’s not paying so much attention over a long period of time, that can make a difference. But, you know, not to mislead people here. It’s not like everybody that can be competitive bodybuilding champion. And this is where you get some of the frustration misinformation and misuse of steroids because a lot of guys just think well if I take more stuff I’ll look like that you know and these are these are the people that end up probably you know with potential problems because the guys that win professional contests these guys are all very genetically inclined to build in that kind of a deep you know they’ve got genetic advantages and long muscle bellies naturally low body fat body structure that’s balanced all these kind of things you can’t get that from an injection or from a tablet you know you can get bigger but you know there’s a lot of big guys around but they don’t win contests because they’re not balanced. What are your thoughts on the the idea that’s floating around the sport now that these guys are they’ve pushed it beyond the point where it’s aesthetically appealing and they just look grotesque I mean do you have any opinion on that? Yeah sometimes it can be if the you know if the guys are not if it’s not in proportion and they’re not in good condition, but then I think these guys don’t win contests. There’s a lot of big lumps walking around, but to win a contest you’ve got to be in shape, you have to have

44:03 The proportions where everything’s balanced and you either got that or you haven’t really. Do you think the current state of bodybuilding is better or worse than when you left it? I have to say I think it’s worse because I don’t think the guys now, now they are really looking to you know to come into the contest bigger and fuller and everything and they’re sacrificing the condition that perhaps we used to go for in the 90s although I was known for my muscle mass going into the contest I wanted to come in like shredded you know super low body fat separates and everything I didn’t want it to be any difference between me and a middle weight or a lightweight as far as the conditioning goes you know where now You’ve got big guys who are winning pro contests and you can find guys who are in better shape in amateur contests I think if you’re the you know, if you’re the ultimate in your sport You should be the best in every department not just bigger and you know, you should be bigger You should be better balanced and you should be in better condition Brian You know the thing that strikes me when when we’re speaking to Doreen is just pursuit of excellence In every aspect of what he does and it’s a common thing with with the successful people that we interview, isn’t it?

45:13 Yeah, I mean, he’s also very very intelligent guy, you know, I got the phone the other night and I was just like, okay This is a smart guy and I just I was thinking about his diet like in the off-season or sorry in the on season It doesn’t seem like it would be difficult for someone like you. We seem very focused And yeah, I was very focused. I knew what I wanted to do Pretty well, you know from the start. I wasn’t thinking hey, I want to be mr. Olympia That wasn’t the first thing but I actually came into the gym. I I want to compete I want to do this as a sport this is not to impress my friends or impress the girls or and that that was none of that was a motivation because if you look at my physique I’ve got shots of my physique about six months after I started training and everyone’s like I’d like to look like that you know a lot of people like I prefer to look like that then then you did in a contest because this is this is perfect this is all I need you know so if I wanted a physique to, you know, an impressive physique with good amadonna. I had that already, you know, so I didn’t go into this sport because I wanted to get bigger because I was being picked on, or I wanted to impress the girls and none of that was a motivation, you know, my motivation was like, this is a challenge and I want to do this and I want to do it like a sport, you know, and I always approached it as an athlete as a sportsman, which is a little bit unique, I think.

46:32 Did you ever get tired of the training? I mean, you did this six times in a row on one, Mr. Olympia. I know you had some injuries at the end. You can talk about those, but was there a point where you just lose interest?

46:42 I find that anyone has a passion for something, that passion has a half-life. Yeah, well, I gotta be honest, like, 97 was my last competition at the Mr. Olympia, and I got a very severe injury a few weeks out toward the tendon, detached the tendon from my elbow. But I do remember, earlier in my preparation for this contest, I’ll start to think to myself, And this is starting to feel like a job. You know, this is starting to feel like a chore now, where before it was total passion, you know, drive and passion.

47:11 I wanna, hey, this is exciting. Like, how far can I take this? You know, how, you know, how far can the human body go? How far can I take my body? Like, I’m in uncharted territory here because at the time, no one had gone there and done that, you know?

47:25 So that was all exciting, but it was starting to get a bit old. And because of the way I approached things, It was absolute 100%. I didn’t ever go out to a nightclub and drink alcohol. I didn’t ever go to the movies with my wife if it finished after 11, because I had to be home and eat my meal at 11.13. I had to be in bed at 12.

47:48 I mean, this was for 10 years, this approach. No let up. Even after the competition, some guys would take a month off, even two months and not even go to the gym. I mean, I was in there next week, you know? So it was intense.

48:01 And I guess nobody can keep that up forever. So it was starting to get a little bit old the last year. And then I got the injury, which was very severe. And I had surgery and so on after that contest. Went back into training to see how things were like.

48:18 And I had to be honest with myself, this is really affecting my training now. The one side of my body, I already had one injury on this side, now I had another one. The training was, I wasn’t going to be able to do it. And I didn’t want to try to do it with one arm, literally almost tied by my back and go to the contest and then get beaten by somebody who probably wasn’t as good as me but just because I wasn’t able to be at my best. You did something that very few athletes do which is you left at the top of your game. Yeah fortunately and the thing for me though was it was a bit traumatic because it wasn’t a choice it wasn’t planned everything else I’d done was strategic it was planned the contest when I should do it and it was planned out it was military you know and here boom like what you’re gonna do now you know but perhaps I’m philosophical about it perhaps that had to happen because my life had to change a direction you know it was very it was very limited so yes I won the mr. olympus six times and it’s a huge part of my life but there is other things in life you know and at that point I was I wasn’t into anything And I said, I was in a tunnel, you know?

49:27 Yeah, I mean, your mommy was speaking to you. I have a very good friend who is a young kid, 22 years old, physique, like nothing you’ve ever seen before, huge into bodybuilding. But I sometimes wonder that it’s maybe it controls him. I mean, we’d go to a movie, and he’d have chicken breasts in his pocket wrapped in tin foil. And it’s where do you draw the line?

49:53 Self-discipline, but where is the point where it’s no longer fun? Yeah, I remember me and the guys, we used to go to the movies and stuff and it was funny because when I went to the movies, I didn’t want to take my chicken breast and I wanted some popcorn and a corneta, like everybody else. So sometimes I let my hair down, but that was about it. But it depends on what your goals are. quickly I got to be the best guy in the country here, then to be professional and go and compete in America.

50:28 So there’s motivation there to restrict yourself like that and everything. If this is your career, if this is your business and everything, then you can justify it. But I see a lot of people doing it and neglecting everything, neglecting their jobs, their family relationships, all these things begin to suffer and I’m like, well why are you doing that? Because you’re never going to win a contest or you know, if you do, it’s going to be be a Mr. whatever, Mr. Birmingham or something.

50:55 It’s not gonna change your life, man, is it worth it? So individuals have to answer that question themselves. But it was a checkpoint for me where I won the British Championship here. And then you get your professional status and go compete in America in my first professional contest. And I didn’t really tell anybody, but I had this in my mind.

51:18 I’m gonna go to this professional contest And I took a good period of time out, like 18 months from my British Championship win to train for this first pro show. So I’m taking time out, I’ve got time here, I’m giving it my best shot. Listen, if I don’t get in that top five of that contest, then it’s telling me, mate, you haven’t got what it takes. Yeah? You’re not gonna get 10th place one year and then next year you’re gonna win.

51:43 Historically, you look at the competitions, the guys who are really good, they’re usually really good from the start, it’s apparent. So I put myself under that kind of pressure that, and to be honest, is it worth the sacrifice? Is it worth the sacrifice of the people around you? Is it worth the sacrifice because you’re not having time and energy to put into business and to other things and so on. So I was like, if I don’t get in the top five of this contest, then that shows me I don’t really honestly have the potential to be a top professional.

52:14 So I won’t compete anymore. Of course I will train I had a gym at the time, I had my gym in Birmingham and I was like, this doesn’t work out, I’m going to train and everything like that, but I’m going to maybe open more gyms or something. That takes time and that takes focus and that takes energy, but history shows I got second place and went from there. The next year I won the night of champions, I got second place in the mystery olympia and then the year after that I won.

52:42 But yeah, I was trying to be honest with myself and say, hey look, if you haven’t got what it takes and you might as well chill out and just enjoy the training and open some more gyms or do something like that, you know. What was your 1998 and 1999 like, you know? Man, it was tough, you know, really tough mentally because I’m getting in the morning and what do I do now? What’s my motivation? I’m going to the gym in the morning like I always used to but what’s after that is like you know I fortunately I was able to get into a into a business and be involved in that in the supplement business with it with a partner here in UK so I had something to go to you know and financially you got money coming in but it’s not the same you know this all-consuming thing as an athlete, I came to the conclusion that a lot of people seek to replace that and I know a lot of top, I mean high-level super athlete, you’re talking about Sugar Ray Leonard here and people like that, Frank Bruno as well and a lot of people get into the whole drugs thing and I got the theory on that because they’re looking for that high, that thing that you got from competition but I realized pretty quickly You’re not going to replace that you cannot replace that because it is what it is. Yeah, and Certainly drugs. They’re not going to do it for you So I changed my hey instead of crying about like I’m not doing this anymore How about the hundred million on one things you can do now, you know, you got time now

54:20 This is the way people need to think dude. You know what I mean? Anyone who’s life isn’t working. This is the way they need to think and And, you know, life changes, right? Nothing stays the same and you can be stubborn if you want and try and fight against the energies of the universe or whatever that’s telling you to go that way, but you want to go this way and you’re just going to end up hurting yourself and being frustrated and you’ve got to go with the flow.

54:43 So I’m a totally different person now from the guy that was competing. That was a one-dimensional person because all I concentrated on, all I thought about and all I knew was this sport. Of course, I’m aware of other things going around, but it’s a tremendous focus and tunnel vision that you get, and then you come out of the tunnel, and then you’ve got to find your balance, your way back in life, and that did take me a few years to do that, to be honest. Speaking of energies of the universe, you told us just before the show started that you drank ayahuasca in the jungle in Brazil, which absolutely blew my mind.

55:20 I never would have thought that you would have done that. Would you be willing to speak? Yeah, sure. I mean, I went through a period of time like almost perhaps like a mental, spiritual, emotional crisis coming out of this whole competitive bodybuilding thing. And of course, I’m looking for answers and become curious about a whole thing.

55:40 Actually, you know, I started reading religion, reading a lot of stuff and I started questioning a lot of things and I guess I had time as well because, You know, I had, you know, made nothing like, you know, normally you’re wrong here. We’re not talking soccer, play figures here, right? But I made some decent money from the sport and I was able to kick back for a little bit. And I think question the nature of reality and what life’s all about and everything.

56:09 That’s a big question we should all be asking pretty much all the time. You gotta be asking this question all the time, what we’re here, what we’re doing, what’s it all about, you know? all this kind of stuff, so I realized that the nature of reality and whatever that’s projected to us through religion, through education, through the media and everything, a lot of it’s just bullshit, it’s false, and the reality, the real reality is nothing like most people think, you know, and so one of the things that on this journey that I did, I went to Brazil actually met my future wife over there and we went on a trip down the Amazon in Brazil and I had the opportunity there to try Alaska which is a plant over there that they used in ceremonies, shamans in the Indian but if you look in ancient cultures all around the world every ancient culture has a a plant that they use in ceremonies and they’re used to communicate, if you like, with the spirit world. There’s a world beyond what we can see and touch here. This is nothing.

57:21 This is just a minute slice of reality. But this is the only thing we can see in here and this is the only thing that we’re aware of here. But ancient cultures know there’s a lot more and there’s a way to get there and there’s a way to transport yourself there. So every culture, whether it be mushrooms, ayahuasca, there’s tons of plants that ancient cultures use in order to do this. And I tried ayahuasca in Brazil, and I’ve got to be honest, it was like something I would never do again.

57:55 It made me as sick as you can, I mean this stuff was just like drinking paint stripper. It was just to get it down was a chore, you know, and I was, you know, the guy that gave me was an Indian, he said, listen, man, he said, you’re going to throw up. He said, when I took it, I threw up, I shit myself and everything. So I just met my future wife and I said, look, I’m going to take this stuff now. And she said, I’ll look after you.

58:17 I said, probably going to puke and shit myself. So if you still fence him after this, it’s got to be on, you know. So, yeah, she looked after babysat me on it. I slept or laid out on a kind of a beach on the Amazon there and took this stuff. But as far as revelations and hearing things and seeing things, I didn’t get too much, I was quite disappointed, to be honest. And then I looked more into this, and what I realized is all these plants, they’re just a different, all these plants contain the material that’s the active material, and that’s called DMT. Now your body produces DMT, you’ve got a gland in your brain called the pineal gland that releases DMT every night when you go to sleep you go to dream you transport it to a different world basically and apparently when you die then your body releases massive amounts of this um so in the end after a few years quite recently like last year i was able to get pure DMT powder and uh smoke that and this just i mean this is just a direct route straight to the spirit world and you know it’s not something that’s the easiest to describe the experience there it’s just you got to kind of do it yourself. What do you take away from those DMT experiences? Ah it’s tremendous amount of information that you get in and when you go there you go to a place that’s full of energy and it’s colors, it’s numbers, it’s geometric shapes and what you realize is that everything is connected the thing that I got is everything is

59:59 One and one is everything everything is connected and we’re all part of it you know we’re all we feel like individuals but we’re all part of the collective just experiencing itself you know your infinite consciousness experience itself through Brian I am through Dorian and so on and so on and so on you know I I realize we’re all connected, and sometimes in this world, in this reality, it’s hard for me to believe, because I see some people, and I think, how is he connected to me? It’s just a nice, total prick, but it’s just because he doesn’t know, and he’s so removed from what he is. I guess that’s what it is, and that’s the biggest thing, and I was spoken to buy if you want by God but it wasn’t it was me as well you know it was like the higher me talking to me and telling me like the biggest problem we have here really on this planet on this plane is the ego you know the ego gets in the way of everything and the ego is not is not really you know it’s the ego is just a construct with yeah was ego what built your whole career probably I mean And initially, why would you want to be the best in the world at something?

1:01:15 I guess it must be your ego. But the ego can get in a way of a lot of stuff. I mean, I don’t regret anything I did because it was tremendous for me. But not only that, I’ve been able to touch a lot of people. You know, even talking about this, how many people are going to listen to this and think something, and do something?

1:01:34 It’s going to have an influence. So I got thousands of people, literally thousands and thousands of people around the world saying in Dorian. Thank you. You put me on a path. I went to the gym because of you and because I went to the gym, it made me a better person, made me feel positive and on and on and on and on. I actually feel a responsibility now with this position. You asked me about steroids.

1:01:57 I feel a responsibility to be totally honest and to say how it is and everything else that I know. I just got to put it out there and if it helps somebody, it helps them. It’s not going to hurt them. Maybe it’s time that your fans learn about ayahuasca and DMT and consciousness and breaking down your ego. Maybe that’s your phase too.

1:02:16 That’s the new message. I mean, I’m in a new place now, so I’m able to give new information. I wouldn’t have known this two years ago. At least I wouldn’t be able to speak as confidently about it. Brian, I just have to say that this is one of the coolest days of my whole life.

1:02:34 If you had told me five years ago that I’d be sitting with Dorian Yates talking about psychedelics, I would have said you were a star craving lunatic. This has just been… Let me go somewhere with this now. Because the pineal gland in your brain, which not a lot of people… I asked me 10 years ago about a pineal gland, I don’t know what a pineal gland is, it’s a tiny gland in your brain, but there is a concerted effort to stop that functioning in everybody.

1:03:02 The powers that be the small group of people that control the world and control the nature of what we believe is reality, they know this is like our antennae to touch the spirit world, real reality, you know, and you can look it up, you can search it, you can find it on the internet, pictures of the pineal gland that’s totally covered in a calcium-like deposit to stop it functioning and this is from the fluoride in the water in the tap water not only is it stopping you from connecting with your higher self and functioning it’s also a poison so please like don’t drink the tap water you know I never drink tap water I never use it for cooking or in my kettle or anything you know during my second ayahuasca experience last year in London. I felt my third eye, my pineal gland, start to reactivate. I could feel it pulsing and it was, I think, was probably shedding the calcification.

1:04:05 Exactly. I felt exactly the same thing. I didn’t know what it was at first. When I took DMT, just before I go into a, you know, you kind of sit back and go into a dreamlike state. I mean, you know, when you take DMT, same with ayahuasca, I can talk to you and you You can respond, you’re still in the room but you’re not, you’re somewhere else as well.

1:04:25 Why do you think these powers of B are doing that? Why do you think they’re trying to suppress the functioning of our pineal glands? Because if we all realized how powerful we are and the nature of reality, we wouldn’t be so easy to control. And it’s all about control and controlling people and, you know, if you’re a conscious person you’re not going to go across the other side of the world and shoot somebody. Because you’re getting paid, you know You’re gonna start questioning things you’re gonna start They’re not gonna be able to control people if everybody was able to think freely and to realize You know what we are and who we are

1:05:07 Would be uncontrollable That’s why the whole There’s a concerted effort to dumb down a population you can even see it with a TV and the magazines It’s just all bullshit now x-factor and who’s fucking who and on magazines and shit who cares about that What’s that got to do? How about the children that just got blown up in Afghanistan and innocent people and because I’m about what’s going on the Gaza Strip and everything what they don’t they don’t you don’t see that, you know people They’re just fed bullshit unless they really become conscious and ask questions and go out there and look It’s not going to be fed to you through the the mainstream, you know, yeah, and everything’s that’s presented through the mainstream is accepted as reality. You know, boom, 9-11, Salman bin Laden did it. Oh, okay, then that’s the truth then. Well, no, if you look clearly, it’s total bullshit, you know? Brian, you said you were, you have any thoughts? Yeah, I try to think about this and I mean, the only problem I have with conspiracy theories is I just wonder if there’s a secret number of people that can actually keep it quiet. But I do think that the reason that psychedelics- There’s no conspiracy theory. Right. There’s There’s a conspiracy fact and it’s documented.

1:06:16 If you care to look it up, you can find it. I think that what I think is that it’s not in the capitalistic interests of many of these companies or even like Dorian said, the army or all the people that sell McDonald’s and want you to get the better sneakers and want you to do all these things. But once you start taking psychedelics, you start questioning being part of that Western consumer role. And I think the pharmaceutical companies and just everyone in general doesn’t have any interest economically.

1:06:42 Dude, I’m holding back tears. I’m so proud of you. No, if we do that, that’s my theory. I just think that people kind of try to hang on to the businesses that they have. Well, if I said to you that there is a cure for cancer or in fact there’s many cures for cancer that’s out there and freely available, how would you feel about that?

1:07:02 I would listen. Because there are people out there and they’re curing their own cancer and the whole cancer industry is just, that’s what it is. It’s a massive industry. Why would you want to cure people? You know, even the even the cancer charities are refused to have anything to do with them because it’s a business. You know, you’ve got a guy called Rick Simpson, Dr. Rick Simpson in the States and he’s cured literally thousands of people. Guess what he’s cured them with?

1:07:31 No, it’s cured with THC, which is active compound from marijuana. He breaks the plant down and concentrates it into oil and people with terminal cancer, they’ve been told their terminal are being cured. I’m sure there’s other cures out there as well but it’s not in the interest. If marijuana is a plant, you can’t patent it. There’s no profit there.

1:07:55 I don’t want to go too much on about ayahuasca and we just did a big show which I told my experience in Peru but I’ve just come back from Peru and there was a very clear message that was given to me by the when I was during my fourth ceremony by the jungle and it was saying that where you come from people are sick like the world is sick we’re sick because we’re disconnected totally disconnected from from where we should be that’s what I think and people got no idea what’s really going on or what’s the reality because their reality is fed to them through schools, religion and media and all those are controlled organizations and I think it’s systematic. How do we break that cycle? Do you have plans to try to educate people?

1:08:46 Well, you know, I’m just being me and I speak to a lot of people and do what I can do And I just try to like touch somebody with something that would spark something or start them questioning things and looking for themselves, you know? Because I’m not right about everything and I don’t know everything, you know? But I know things are not right and I always knew that, but I know more clearly now the older I’m getting, you know? Yeah, it’s funny, you’re talking about you look at the X-Factor and all these things on TV and Nick said the other day when he saw one of those free papers in the tube, But it was just like he didn’t want to look at it because it’s like all this negativity I look at it like a poisonous snake That’s right like a poisonous because it wants to suck you in but trying to get in all this She did this and he did this and he did that and you know, that’s why we do this show really We want to get people about your life. What about your life? Instead of reading about other people’s bullshit lives It’s bullshit. Anyway, because I can pick up one newspaper That says Jordans with this guy and then another one that says Jordans not with this guy I don’t give a fuck anyway, but you know, it’s just it’s just bullshit And when you read all when you read all that crap about Celebrities making up and breaking up and doing cocaine and all the chaos in their own lives You’re taking it in through your through your senses and then you start to repeat that same cycle and people wonder why

1:10:01 They can’t hold a relationship or they wonder why there’s so much well These are held up these people who are held up for us to admire these these are our role models. These are the idols Right. That’s what they’re supposed to be. I I mean, what kind of role model is that? There’s much better things out there and unsung people who are doing good things though, you know, I’d rather read about them.

1:10:23 What’s next for you in the next year, five years? What keeps you excited? Well, I’m still involved in, you know, I’m still involved in bodybuilding a lot actually, you know, still traveling around the world, speaking to people. I got my own nutrition line now, DUI, Dorian Yates Nutrition. So we sell that all around the world.

1:10:41 Last year I was in Brazil, Australia, Canada, some places in the US, some other countries in Europe. So I’m still travelling and meeting a lot of people and everything which is exciting and now when I’m travelling, if I can’t make it to a gym or if I have to eat food, so what? So I can enjoy it now actually. One of the tremendous things I had through bodybuilding is actually, you know, the experience of being able to travel all around the world and have friends, you know, I’ve got friends in Australia that can call, I can go there in a time, all around the world, you know, it’s made me a more rounded person.

1:11:24 I was a guy from Birmingham, you know, and you’re only, it depends on what you’re exposed to, you know, and you’re only exposed to a certain amount of thing if you stay in one place or with one culture and one group of people, but I’ve been all around the world and experienced different things and I’m sure it’s had a huge effect on the way I look at things. What do you miss about the bodybuilding community and what don’t you miss? I don’t really miss anything because of the competitive thing.

1:11:53 I did that. I love to train, but I don’t do just bodybuilding training. I don’t train real heavy. do a lot of circuits with weight, so it’s kind of, you know, it’s cardio, but it’s muscle building as well. I do, sometimes I train with some martial arts guys, some fighters and stuff, and sometimes I do a bit more conventional bodybuilding, but I love to train, I love to go in the gym and train, so I’ll always do that, you know, that’s the part of bodybuilding that I love, but to be honest, going to watch bodybuilding competitions and stuff like that, that’s not something that I choose to do anymore.

1:12:31 But you were always kind of removed from the, I mean, your nickname was the Shadow. Yeah. Can you explain that nickname? Well, the Shadow started because when I started competing in the mid-80s over here, and it could have been a marketing plan, I guess, a strategic plan, but it wasn’t. It’s just Dorian being Dorian. I’m a more extrovert now, perhaps, and more confident and so on. But when I was a young guy, I was kind of introvert. So I wasn’t a guy who, you know, shouted about himself how great he was or went everywhere. And you’d know if I walked in the room, I’d be the quiet guy. He wouldn’t really notice me that much.

1:13:12 And what I did is I trained and I was getting better and better and better and everyone and people, you know, there was no internet then. So but it’s a small community. So word gets round about this guy from Birmingham. I was a young kid who looks great and then I went to a competition and I won it. I actually went to a novice competition. It was a small one, but I went there and it just freaked people out. They’re like, what are you doing in this novice competition? You’re way too good. I’m like, yeah, what’s my first show?

1:13:39 And why aren’t you in the heavyweight class? I don’t think I’m good enough now. It’s my first show, you know? Not good enough. You’re probably better than our best guy we’ve out right now. I mean, where the hell did you come from, you know? And then I disappear again. Go back to the gym. Nobody to hear anything from me. Just go back to the gym and train and train and train. And of course, there’s rumors, but nobody knows. And boom. And I turn up at the next competition, blow everyone away and off again, go back to my gym and just isolate myself. And I did the same thing as a professional. I went to America. I thought, Who the hell, who’s this guy from England?

1:14:17 What the hell? Boom, went back to England. Don’t know anything, can’t see me, you know, like. So. Sounds like a genius masterful market employee.

1:14:29 Yeah, it was a genius psychological plan to psych out my competition, but it wasn’t. It was just me being me. And when you get to professional ranks, and especially in the 90s, the whole thing was really around Gold’s Gym in Venice, California. That’s where all the pros trained and lived and it was a huge community there. So these guys could see each other every day.

1:14:51 Brian’s not looking that good, he looks a bit fat, what do you think? You know, it’s kind of, Dorian, we don’t know anything about him. Like, and that’s kind of scary, like, is he looking good, is he looking, what’s happening, I don’t know, nobody knows, you know, like, that kind of thing. That’s cool. So, you know, it wasn’t a strategy, but it was just me being me, but it did have an effect, you know.

1:15:12 You know, Brian, I think I’m gonna start calling you the shadow for never answering your text message. It’s not a cool name, you know. Did, how many head games go on backstage, you know, when you go to these competitions? Well, you know, you had the pumping iron film, right? I don’t know if you’ve seen that with Arnold in there and it’s just like, it’s just dramatized for the movie, right?

1:15:30 You know, I guess this whole thing could be a bit boring to an outsider, so they tried to add a bit of drama in there, but not much really, excuse me, Um, because by the time you get to the competition, look, you’re either got the goods or you don’t. It doesn’t matter what I say or do or whatever. But still, um, I had my way of doing things. I remember I competed in the first Mr. Olympic competition against Lee Haney. Now Lee Haney was Mr. Olympic when I started training. And now I’m competing against this guy. So cool. You know, But I changed my point of view at that point to when I got there, who’s no longer Lee Haney, my idol.

1:16:13 He was Lee Haney, the guy I want to be. But I do remember being backstage there and pumping up and everything and he was close to me, you know, and he had his, still had his track top on and he was pumping up and everything. Oh, looking over. Then he took off his track top with his back facing me and I was like, oh, shit, you know? So I was like, all right.

1:16:33 So after that I always stayed covered until the last minute and I could feel all the other guys waiting and watching until the last minute to see what I was looking like and I’d leave it until the last minute and then boom and there’s, oh no, shit, you could feel that going around. So I guess that was… I always try to have my own little spot, my little changing room and stuff, things like that. That’s little tips. You’re known as being a super intense guy when you do train and I was just wondering where that comes from.

1:17:05 I know a lot of guys that are top bodybuilders come from tough childhoods and broken homes and they use that some way to fuel themselves. I didn’t have an easy time as a kid and stuff like that so perhaps that’s where it comes from the motivation but it was always like a pride thing for me you know like I can train harder. I push myself more than everybody else. It was all my pride thing as well. And the same with a diet. It was a discipline. And if I broke that diet, I mean like I couldn’t look at myself in the mirror. I would have let myself down. So this whole thing was not about building… It was about building physique and about building the best physique and everything, but it was beyond that. It was a mental thing. It was almost like mastery of yourself, you know, because who wants to go and put 600 pounds on your back and squat up and down until you’re nearly puking?

1:18:00 Who wants to do that, you know? Brian, you said something to me once, you said, I don’t believe that all men are created equal. And when I meet a guy like Dorian, I completely understand that, you know, there’s very few people that have the genetic, spiritual, physical, mental disposition to be able to do things. The other thing I noticed is that you see a lot of top, top athletes and people in in any field and it’s usually the ones that are competing with themselves that get that success because they’re not really trying to prove it to everyone.

1:18:28 They’re just trying to prove it to themselves. That was pretty much what I had. I mean, I had guys that I competed against as professionals that I had to beat, but when you’re number one, that’s not so much a motivation as before because you already beat this guy now. So now you’re the guy that everyone’s looking at. You know, everyone’s chasing.

1:18:49 So who do you chase now? Chase yourself. Try to beat yourself, you know? And the same thing with a diet, you know? Like every instinct, every impulse is telling you, you must eat now.

1:19:03 And you’re saying, no, I’m not gonna eat now because that’s not my plan, I’m gonna override you. No. So it’s a mental discipline, you know? And as I said before, I mean, the training and stuff It was hard, but for me it was fun. I enjoyed that physical challenge, so that’s hard, but the hardest thing is the diet.

1:19:24 Mentally, it’s very hard, and that’s separating the men from the boys, I think, you know? Like, there was a lot of big guys around that never made it to that stage, you know, because they couldn’t handle that, the diet. Wow, what are your thoughts on Arnold Schwarzenegger? Well, they say he didn’t think good to say he didn’t say anything, so. I mean let’s be serious Arnold has done more than any individual to bring attention to bodybuilding through first through pumping iron and then through the you know big mainstream movies and everything so he gave the sport a big boost through that so we have to be thankful for that but honestly I don’t know him really that well we had a bit of a well he felt that he had to attack modern bodybuilding and myself as the the leader of modern bodybuilding in the mid 90s through the magazines and I did a reply to him which kind of he shot himself in the foot because he was criticizing myself and the sport and everything and I just replied like you know I don’t know how he can criticize me or the sport because he doesn’t know me I’ve never met him I’ve never spoken to him personally and he didn’t know anything about the sport because he doesn’t come to watch the competition. He never goes to Mr. Olympia, Arnold does exactly what’s good for Arnold. So at that point he wasn’t coming to the competitions and I made the response in the magazine and I think the feedback they got, male wives and everything at the time, was pretty

1:20:54 Much 100% in my favour because Arnold’s achieved a lot and perhaps because he has a huge ego, you know. And there’s a guy called Mike Mensa, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Mike Mensa. Mike Mensa and Arnold were big rivals and Arnold won the 1980 Mr. Olympia over at Mike Mensa. And it was very, very controversial because Arnold came and balled up at the last minute and entered the contest when the rules clearly stated that you had to enter at some time period before, but the rules were bent because it was Arnold.

1:21:30 And Arnold’s friend was a promoter and a lot of Arnold’s friends were on the judging panel and Arnold won the contest and pretty much everybody in the sport knows and accepts that he shouldn’t have won that contest. So it wasn’t probably that great for him. So Mike Minster and Arnold had this rivalry, I guess, from there and I was associated with Mike. I trained with him and I knew Mike. Mike told me Arnold Schwarzenegger is very aware of you, and he’s going to be really bothered because you’re better than him.

1:22:04 Actually, I couldn’t believe it. I was like, come on, man. I’m going to give a shit. He’s done what he’s done. He’s Arnold.

1:22:10 I mean, now he’s in the movies. He’s a big star. He’s a multimillionaire. He’s not going to care about who’s a Mr. Olympia right now.

1:22:16 Mike Menson said to me, trust me. You don’t know him. He cares. He cares a lot. That became apparent because a couple of years later, I got the attack in the magazine.

1:22:25 I wanted to actually ask you about Mike Mensa because he seems like such a progressive guy. He was always looking at different ways to train and he was thinking out the box. I wanted to know what your opinion was on his death. I know he died of a heart attack at a relatively young age. Do you think it was because he was pushing himself?

1:22:45 I know he was studying philosophy all the time and doing these incredibly intense workouts. Do you think he just pushed too hard? What do you think the story was behind that? Well Mike, I think after 1980 Mr. Olympia and anyone that knows Mike knows and when I met him I was very struck because Mike was like my idol when I started training and this subject came up very quickly after I met him about the 1980 Mr. Olympia and Arnold and I could see that this guy was 10, 11, 12 years later still this was like right in the forefront his mind and really really bothered him and I do know he had problems with amphetamine use and that you know he said you know that didn’t help him psychologically and I think I’m not sure of all the facts but I think he was sectioned once or twice something like that you know he heard stories about him doing erratic things but actually when I met him and the time I spent with him he was very lucid very clear very intelligent guy but sometimes when someone’s very intelligent and always questioning things, do get these, you know, these problems.

1:23:54 So I don’t know if, you know, I’m fair to me news, had any, you know, I know it’s not good for your heart and everything, so maybe that had some effect. I don’t know, but the time that I spent with him, he seemed okay. Just, I could tell he was really bothered about that 1980 thing and he hadn’t let go of it, which is not a good thing. And And he was training a lot of people in Gold’s Gym, that was his thing, his training business. But he didn’t train anything himself, he got a bit of a belly on him and stuff like that.

1:24:25 Which I kind of find hard to understand, because for me I always train. Someone pissed me off because I felt I didn’t win a contest or whatever. So what? That’s a contest. pain and exercise has huge mental benefits, you know, it keeps you…

1:24:45 Brains like that, I don’t know, if you work hard, like… Yeah, it’s like a natural high, right? Your body releases natural endorphins, painkillers, you feel good, you know, human body is supposed to do things, it’s supposed to exercise, you know, it’s not supposed to sit around all day, like we’ve only done that for the last couple of hundred years, not even that, perhaps, thousands and thousands of years we have to work, we have to hunt, we have to survive. The body is meant to do that.

1:25:10 You’re meant to use it. If you don’t use it, it’ll break down, you know? So yeah, I really don’t know what caused his untimely death. And the freaky thing about it is his brother, Ray, passed away like within days of Mike passing away. And you know, his brother passed away.

1:25:31 I had them assassinated. I don’t know, man. Right. You said it, not me. Now we’re going to get sued.

1:25:36 You know what I was just thinking? I think Dorian should start his own podcast. Yes. Definitely. Or we should come back on ours at least.

1:25:44 Yeah, that’s true. But you call it Dorian real. Yeah. But, you know, you really should. You can have guests.

1:25:49 Well, you know, I do. I got a Facebook page and I put a lot of posts on there that, you know, that start people thinking. I had a lot of people write back to me and say, hey, listen, should you start me on a whole? I’ve gone down the rabbit hole now, you know, once I see something that’s not right, you know, I’ve done a lot of posting about the 9-11 and the banking system and, you know, things that have presented us through the media over here about situations abroad and on all that, it’s like, it’s so removed from reality, you know.

1:26:23 I think people are going to be blown away, especially talking about, you know, the DMT and all that, just it’s great to see someone like you with new ideas, you know? Well, you know, like I said, I do my monthly column with Muscular Development Magazine. We covered, you know, we covered the steroids in bodybuilding and my experience and my views and all that stuff, and I also did one on marijuana and marijuana use in athletes and what the facts are there and there’s, I think there’s a 30 year study they did in California on naturally, on lung damage from smoking marijuana, and what was the result was, they didn’t find any.

1:27:01 They were looking for it and expecting it, but they didn’t find any. So, you know, my point in the article there was a lot of athletes use marijuana to whatever, relax, whatever, you know, so, and that’s something that’s been demonized falsely through the media, and you know, if I sell people like, hey, you know marijuana can cure cancer, they’ll just totally freak out, because it’s like, you know, what are you talking about? This drug, this dope, this, you know, this negative thing that I’ve heard about, and these are my beliefs that have been given to me, and I’ll hold on to these, you know?

1:27:34 It’s, like everything else, the reality is sometimes quite different. I think a lot of people are changing their views on cannabis, but it’s slowly moving east, and it’s gonna take, I think, another five or 10 years to get to the UK. I mean, you see states like Canada. You’ve got two states now in the US where it’s legal. He also got, I mean, I think Portugal have decriminalized all drugs now.

1:27:56 Man, next time you’re in the state store and you’ve got to go on the Joe Rogan show, Joe would have a field day job. Oh, Joe Rogan. Yeah, he’s cool, man. I’ve read a lot of his stuff and- Joe would love you. Yeah.

1:28:06 I think Joe is a guy that probably five years ago, if you’d asked him, he wouldn’t have believed any of this stuff. I don’t think he even tried marijuana five years ago because of his views, you know? He was a very late bloomer on that because, yeah, he was sold the same thing, pots for these loser potheads Merrill was for this type of person, even Eddie Bravo. Yeah, look, it’s going to make you lazy and achieve nothing in life. Look at me, I’m a perfect example of that.

1:28:29 You’re going to be unmotivated and not going to achieve anything in life. Of course, bullshit. Well, you know, Joe and Joe spread the word about this just by talking about it. I think more that Nick and I started talking about ayahuasca about 10 months ago. And people hear this stuff, you’re talking about DMT now, it kind of starts the cycle of change.

1:28:49 For sure. But it’s tricky over here. You were saying that in England there’s no respect for the bodybuilding as a sport. Absolutely. I mean, how many six times consecutive world champions do we have in any sport in this country?

1:29:07 I don’t know. I don’t think we have any. So during the 90s, I was this guy. But any attention from the media, they wanted to put a negative slant on it straight away. My first experience with the media was a mainstream tabloid and they came to do an interview with me and the reporter spent like the best part of an afternoon with me and I thought I had some rapport going with this guy and I thought, you know, I could get my point across and everything and one of the questions he asked me was like, you know, what do you think about Arnold Schwarzenegger and success and everything like that?

1:29:41 I’m like, yeah, that’s cruel. That’s great. That’s Arnold though, you know? There are no ambitions to be a movie star or a billionaire or in politics. That’s not me, right?

1:29:50 That’s Arnold. I just want to be the best bodybuilder I can be and see how far I can take this and how far that’s my thing. When I read the newspaper, it’s like, I’m going to be bigger and better and richer than Arnold. This fucking nothing is total opposite to what I was talking about. So then from that point on, during any newspaper magazine interviews, I always had a dictaphone And I taped it just in case I came up against this situation again and then You probably know yourself here. The the media is a small world So as soon as one newspaper or one TV program found out about it’s like they’re all calling me Yeah, and there was a couple of TV breakfast shows That called me up and I was like, okay, I’ll be interested in coming on there Okay, yeah, but I want to come on with my clothes on and I want to sit down And I want to talk to you and if afterwards you want me to pose or you want to show some footage from competition I’m like, that’s great. Yeah. Oh, no. No. No, we wanted to come on and do your posing stuff and everything I’m like, listen if I come on there as a performing monkey in my briefs Yeah, I’m just gonna be there as a spectacle for you to point at and I’m not gonna be able to get my point across I have no interest of being on TV, you know, which blew their mind They think everyone wants to be on TV and they’ll sell their soul to go on TV. I was like But personally, I have no interest in being on TV.

1:31:10 I don’t need it to promote myself, you know, I’m already where I am in my sport, but I would like to go on there in order to get my point of view across and to educate people about the sport and what it’s about. And I need to be able to talk to do that. Yeah. I need to sit down and talk. And the guy didn’t understand me and I said, look, at the time Paul Gascline was the most famous soccer player in the country, Gazza, right?

1:31:32 I said, if you invite Gazza onto your show, you want him to come with his football kit and do tricks with his ball behind while you make comments or something. No, you’re going to sit him down, he’s going to wear a suit, you’re going to talk to him. I just want the same respect, you know, and they wouldn’t do that, so I wouldn’t go on a program. Good for you. You know, just consider how much more effort and maybe you could even argue skill went into what Dorian did to achieve what he achieved in comparison to a guy who kicks a ball around the field.

1:32:01 You know, like, don’t get me wrong, football’s great and those guys are good athletes and all, But it’s it’s just incomparable, you know, it’s just not the same lead Well once you hear that him talk about it, you know when they see these images of these these these bodies They don’t understand. Well, that’s that’s exactly my point, you know, if you look at a bodybuilding and you ask people What do you think about this? Of course, you’re gonna get a ton of negative comments from from probably from the average person They’re just looking at a picture. Yeah, but to be honest I’ve never really had any negative reactions from the public people on the street and everything come talk to me They want to learn. Wow, what’d you do? And you know, they want to let off. Can I lose this?

1:32:35 What can I do? You know, it’s always very very positive, but it just seems the media all they want to talk about is the sensational Or the negative they want to talk about steroids or something like that because it’s you know It’s more sensational. Maybe it makes better news, but how about telling the truth that probably be a good idea, you know Yeah, yeah Do you enjoy getting older? yeah, I do because You know the bodies gets older and it doesn’t work as good as it used to but mine’s still pretty good because I’ve been looking after it So I can still go in the gym and an out train 25 years old. No problem. Really? Yeah, no problem They don’t want to do it. They don’t want to come with me in the gym Trust me, I hear I hear legs are your specialty Because legs, you know, that’s the toughest training. It’s the biggest muscles in your body. It’s a huge Oxygen that you get and everything so, you know, it’s tough. You feel very nauseous and stuff when you really push To to the limit so not most people don’t want to do that with me, but the whole thing of getting older is hopefully getting wiser, you know, and getting more in touch and getting nearer to what reality is.

1:33:42 I think that’s, you know, I’ve got my business and stuff, I don’t concentrate on that, but just to enjoy life and travelling, experiencing new things, that’s where I’m at now. And trying to evolve as a person I think have evolved tremendously since I left the sport and been through a period of probably depression after that, and then you get out of that. You know, a lot of questions, but now I’m in a good place now. I think, you know, good, good understanding of life.

1:34:11 I’ve got a just recently remastered a couple of years ago to amazing, beautiful woman from Brazil, who’s also very spiritual. So she helped me on my on my pathway there as well. I think. Do you think your injury in some way was a blessing in disguise? Yeah, I see it as that now, because if that injury didn’t happen, I don’t know, maybe I would have carried on, you know, who knows, you know like maybe it had to happen to Dorian you know maybe I had to be born that’s finished for you now mate yeah otherwise maybe I would have stayed on too long who knows you know when you refer to Dorian you were kind of referring to that mr. Olympia Dorian as opposed to who you are now yeah exactly yeah yeah because maybe that guy would have just carried on I don’t know you know we’d all like to be able to control and plan our lives and everything but you you can only do it to a degree you know sometimes the outside forces and circumstances come along for whatever reason and it’s usually for the best reason you know it’s very things can be very you know like retiring from a you know from a job or a sport you know losing relationship all these things are upsetting and negative at the time but later on you might look back and say hey that was all for the best you know it almost comes back to non-attachment which is you know the foundation of Buddhism that you hold on to is gonna hurt you so try not to hold on to anything too tight right. Wow that’s deep you know I just got a couple more

1:35:39 Questions and we’ll wrap this thing up something we ask people a lot on the show is if you could pick up the phone right now and make a phone call to the 20 year old Dorian and give him a few words of advice what would you say to him and would he listen to you? Double the dosage. 20 year old Dorian I wouldn’t them anything because you know I was on a pathway there the only thing you know but then you go into where we’re changing things right I could go back and tell Dory and listen that you know you need to take a bit more slack you need to take a bit more time off if you get little injuries you need to take care of that and if you need to take time off you need to take time off and you can chill out a little bit more you can you know you can enjoy life a little bit more, I could have done all that and maybe would affect, you know, maybe I would have avoided those injuries.

1:36:29 But if I’d avoided those injuries, then we’re on a whole new pathway. So I’m just going to say, you know, whatever happened, happened perfectly. That’s the way it’s meant to happen, and I’m where it’s supposed to be. So I wouldn’t go back and change anything. Fair enough.

1:36:43 Good answer. And what advice would you have for that 20-year-old out there who was thinking about a career in bodybuilding? Yeah. Don’t think about a career. young you’re too early to think about a career how many people genuinely make a career out of professional bodybuilding so you can pick up the magazines and you can look and it looks all glamorous and these guys all look like superstars and they’re promoted as such but how many of them really make a career a real professional that means that you that’s your sole source of income and you’re doing well off that 10 guys in the world 10 10 12 whatever somewhere around there that you know they’re bringing in good a really good income you know you know if you look at the mr. olympia I think the first place is about $150,000 or under 75 something like that but you get down to 10th place 11th place 12 places you’re looking at a couple of grand, you know, it’s like, you don’t even pay your expenses.

1:37:46 It’s been more than that on chicken rice. So, you know, the image that’s presented is perhaps not reality, you know. So if you’re gonna give up everything, you better make sure that, you know, you’re getting something back. A 20-year-old body, 20-year-old guy thinking about a career in a sport. Don’t think about a career yet.

1:38:06 You know, if you enjoy doing it, enjoy doing it, set yourself some realistic short-term goals, you know. All right, you might want to be a professional bodybuilder, you might want to be a Mr. Olympic, but put that maybe sometime in the future. Right now, you’re 20 years old, you need to build your foundation, you need to compete and win a competition and a little one, you need to be the bigger one. If you can get to be the best guy in England, to be the Mr. Britain and be the best guy here British champion then you can maybe start thinking about it but I don’t even think about it for then you know because it’s it’s an illusion it’s not there there’s only a few guys that can do it you have to be very very good to do that and there are thousands and thousands of thousands of people around the world probably thinking the same thing you know not saying I’m not being negative saying you can’t do it but when I was 21 22 23 start competing I wasn’t thinking about you know being mr. limper at that point and I was very you know But obviously, it became apparent quite early on when I was competing that I was ahead of everybody else.

1:39:15 Wow. I just wanted to say thanks to one of our interns, which is Diego Ferreira, who put us in touch with you. And I know you’re still doing- Ferreira? Yeah. That’s my wife’s name.

1:39:24 Is it really? Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s his surname. He was a Brazilian guy. He went up and trained with you.

1:39:29 I know you’re still doing personal training. Oh yeah, Diego, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. But I just, how do people get ahold of you? You are still doing personal training sessions. Yeah, I do a limited amount of personal training because I do most of it here in the UK.

1:39:39 And I’m not here all the time, but DorianYates.net, that’s my main website, you can go on there, you can contact me through there, you can make requests for personal training, you can read about my nutrition, everything, if you go through that site, you can pretty much get everything. Okay, and your Twitter is Dorian underscore Yates. Is it? Yeah, it is. It is.

1:40:01 And yeah, on the topic of ayahuasca, if you wanna listen to Nick’s recent experiences in Peru, We’ve just published ayahuasca, My Heart of Darkness, which is Nick’s two-hour description of his time in Peru just two weeks ago. I might as well listen to that myself. And as usual, if you want to get a hold of us, you can find us on LondonReal.tv. We’ve got a great forum there. We’re on Twitter.

1:40:25 We’re on Facebook. And if you’re listening to this on iTunes, you can come see our faces and see the extremely good-looking Dorian on YouTube, our channel is LondonReal. But I mean, for 50, you know, that’s pretty good. Man, that episode was just fucking fantastic. Epic.

1:40:44 Epic. If you would have told me Dorian would have been dropping science on DMT yesterday, I would have slapped you in the head. Yeah, all the laughs in your face. Well, I kind of got a feeling we were going to go there at some point. I don’t know why.

1:40:54 That’s amazing. Yeah. That was all good. So thank you so much for the time. Thank you so much, Dorian.

1:40:59 Thanks for coming down. I really appreciate it. Great. Thanks for having me, guys. I’m sure we will.

1:41:04 I’d love to have you down there in the meantime. I’m sure we will. Okay. Thank you. Until then.

1:41:09 It’s all about the journey. It’s about the journey indeed. Thanks guys. Cool. The energy became very dark, like so there was a thick negative energy in that room that was…

1:41:25 Do you remember this? Yes, I remember that. I left it out of… It was before… It was around the time of the internet loop, the mental loop I’d entered into.

1:41:34 Okay. Thanks for watching!

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Dorian Yates - Into The Shadow

The Life & Legacy Of A Bodybuilding Legend

Key takeaways

Against the grain: how Dorian Yates trained

Contest dieting and the discipline behind it

Steroids, honesty and the state of the sport

Life after Mr. Olympia: ayahuasca, DMT and questioning reality

The Shadow, Arnold and the press

Who is Dorian Yates?

Frequently asked questions

Full transcript: Dorian Yates on London Real

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Dorian Yates - Into The Shadow

The Life & Legacy Of A Bodybuilding Legend

Key takeaways

Against the grain: how Dorian Yates trained

Contest dieting and the discipline behind it

Steroids, honesty and the state of the sport

Life after Mr. Olympia: ayahuasca, DMT and questioning reality

The Shadow, Arnold and the press

Who is Dorian Yates?

Frequently asked questions

Full transcript: Dorian Yates on London Real

Latest Episode

Dubai Real - Episode 4: The Art Of The Deal

More Like This

Dubai Real - Episode 4: The Art Of The Deal

Dubai Real - Episode 3: Inside The Deal

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