Dennis McKenna - Dennis McKenna on Terence McKenna

“There are no experts.”

In short: Dennis McKenna is an ethnopharmacologist and psychedelic researcher, and the brother of the late writer and speaker Terence McKenna. In this short London Real clip from 2015, Dennis remembers Terence as a funny, hypnotic, self-questioning thinker who never wanted to be a guru and who urged people to think for themselves.

The clip opens with recordings of Terence McKenna describing his early life and the La Chorrera expedition, then moves to Dennis’s own recollections of how his brother spoke, argued and joked. Dennis recalls that it was not only what Terence said but the way he said it that put audiences into a receptive state.

Dennis also describes Terence as a shaman in the sense of a poet who could articulate things others could not, someone who never took himself too seriously and who loved to dismantle his own ideas.

It is a short piece, but it carries the main message of the full interview: be curious, trust yourself and stay humble, because nobody has all the answers.

Key takeaways

• Terence was a mesmerising speaker. Dennis says the effect came from how Terence spoke, not just his words, which put people into a state of receptivity.
• He saw himself as no guru. Dennis says Terence never asked anyone to believe him and asked only that people think for themselves.
• Humour was central. Dennis remembers an Irish twinkle and a refusal to take things too seriously, including a line about consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds.
• There are no experts. The message, as Dennis tells it, is self-trust and self-empowerment. Anyone claiming to be sure of everything is a red flag.
• The world is stranger than we imagine. Dennis finds hope in that idea, because it means there is always more to discover.
• Stay humble. Ayahuasca, he says, reminds him how little he knows, and that we are all just curious monkeys.

Terence McKenna, the speaker and poet

Dennis recalls that Terence’s speaking could be hypnotic. People were drawn in less by the argument than by the rhythm and delivery, which is why his talks on psilocybin mushrooms, the stars and the end of time still attract listeners. Terence described a mushroom telling him that a species preparing to depart for the stars does not do so under calm and orderly conditions.

Dennis calls him a true shaman in the sense that he was a poet, even though Terence would never have used the word for himself. He explains that Terence’s gift was articulating the strange territory of the Imagination and the experiences of the psychedelic world.

Not a guru: think for yourself

Dennis says he was often the one in the audience who would challenge Terence when something did not add up, and Terence would answer with humour rather than defensiveness, quoting the idea that consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

For Dennis the lesson is plain. Terence did not want followers. If you take the message properly, you will be able to move beyond needing more of it, because it is about self-trust and about the fact that nobody really is an expert.

Stranger than we can imagine

The clip ends on the idea that the world is not only stranger than we imagine but stranger than we can imagine. Dennis sees that as a reason for optimism, and says ayahuasca always reminds him to remember how little he knows.

His closing line is a reminder to himself and to viewers: do not get a big head, because you are, after all, just a curious monkey.

Who is Dennis McKenna?

Dennis McKenna is an American ethnopharmacologist and psychedelic researcher, born on 17 December 1950. He holds a doctorate in botanical sciences from the University of British Columbia and has spent decades studying plant-based psychedelics, including ayahuasca, working with indigenous communities in the Amazon. He took part in the 1971 La Chorrera expedition with his brother Terence McKenna, the writer and speaker.

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