Dr John Demartini - How To Change Your Life: The Secret Formula For Wealth & Purpose

Full transcript: Dr. John Demartini on London Real

3:25 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Dr. John Demartini, the human behavior expert, global educator, and best-selling author of over 40 books translated into 30 languages.

3:51 You are the founder of the Demartini Institute where you teach thousands of people each year about human values, wealth creation, and self-mastery. Your frameworks such as the Demartini Method and Values Factor are used globally to help individuals break through limitations, align with their highest purpose, and achieve extraordinary results in life and business. You’ve been featured in documentaries like The Secret and spoken on stages in more than a 100 countries, bridging psychology, psychology, philosophy, and finance.

4:20 Your teachings integrate science and spirituality, inspiring people to understand that whatever they think is missing in their lives can be awakened from within. John, welcome back to London Real.

4:33 John Demartini: Thank you. Thank you for the lovely introduction.

4:36 Brian Rose: It’s really special having you here. I think it’s the third time that we’re here in person together over the past coming up on six years. And, uh, it’s really special because for me, you’re not just another guest. You’re a guy that has changed my life and your methods continue to change my life. And I was telling you, I spent the entire month of August in Barcelona and, uh, it should have been renamed Demartiniville because I was listening to your YouTube videos as I walked through that city for hours every day.

5:06 And I think that even though the world knows how amazing you are, I still think with all that fame, you’re still underrated because I think you’re one of the top people when it comes to showing people how a change in mindset can change their entire reality. And I don’t know what it is, but when you’re talking, I just am always like, “Wow, wow, wow, wow.” And these are things I didn’t understand 5 years ago, 10 years ago. And so I can’t wait to dive in because I think your tools are so useful to anybody on the planet.

5:36 Your story is also incredible, um, for a guy like you so articulate and so accomplished to know that, you know, you were told you would never be able to read and you weren’t even reading and doing anything to your teenage years. No formal education. We’ll get into that. But I want to start with something that I think most people struggle to get their head around and something that took me years to get my head around, John. And when I first started London Real, a guest said to me, “You know what, Brian?

6:04 When you hate somebody, there’s a little bit of you in them, and that’s why you’re obsessed with them.” And I thought, “That’s ridiculous. I’m nothing like them.” And I meditated on it for years, and I still could never ever come to the conclusion, but maybe deep down inside of me, part of me knew that something was right about that. And this is something you talk a lot about, whether you’re in deep love or deep hate with people, that there’s something there that’s inside of you and you can’t kind of go to the next level and transform until you, I think, try to understand it.

6:41 And right now, I, Dr. John, I see so much hate in the world. You know, I see America divided. I see people getting shot. I see people getting angry. And I think to myself, man, maybe this is a great time for them to learn some of your techniques.

6:56 And so for someone out there right now that hates someone or loves someone, and this could be a certain political figure maybe that you know very well, that you might have lived one time in his tower, but that’s like a perfect example of an archetype where people have these strong emotions. How do you start to have the conversation with people and say those extreme feelings are actually holding you back from your own transformation? How do you have that conversation with people?

7:24 John Demartini: Well, sometimes I, I don’t try to offer a service until I establish a need. Because if somebody’s not asking, imposing and projecting onto it, you’re trying to do something to impact them because they’re reminding you of something you’re trying to impact in yourself.

7:40 Right.

7:40 So, I don’t find that very productive.

7:41 Brian Rose: That’s interesting. So, when you’re trying to fix someone, it’s really your issue. Okay. You’re projecting yourself.

7:49 John Demartini: It was a New Testament presentation, Romans 2:1, that said, “Beware of judging others for what you judge in others, you do the same thing.”

7:58 And I was fascinated by that in about 41 years ago. So instead of waiting for somebody to push my button to discover that, I decided to go to the Oxford English Dictionary and to go through the entire dictionary and underline every potential trait that I could judge in somebody. Kind, cruel, nice, mean, etc. And then what I did is I wrote out to the side, I underlined the particular trait. I found 4,628 traits.

8:29 Gordon Allport, 35 or 36 years earlier, uh, found 4,000 in that same text. Okay?

8:34 But I found 4,628.

8:37 And I underlined the word that described the trait. And then I went out to the side and abbreviated really small the names of who I believed were the most exemplary of that trait. So if I saw, you know, resentful or I saw vindictive or aggressively screaming or whatever the trait might be, I would write out who do I know that represents that to the fullest degree. And I put their name. And then I would go inside my life and find out where and when I’ve displayed or demonstrated the same specific trait, action or inaction, until I could identify where I did it quantitatively and qualitatively 100% to the degree that I projected.

9:21 When I did that, I went through 4,628 traits. It took a couple years to do.

9:25 Brian Rose: You had already read the dictionary cover to cover when you were young.

9:28 John Demartini: Well, I didn’t. That dictionary I had not read cover to cover, but I, by going through this, I did.

9:33 Okay, right.

9:34 As I went through it, but I, um, I found out that I had every trait.

9:39 Brian Rose: Wow.

9:39 John Demartini: And this is going to be probably shocking for somebody. Our fulfillment level is to the degree that we embrace all those traits. The hero, the villain, the saint, the sinner, the positive, the negative, the kind, the cruel, etc. But what we do is we tend to disown. We’re too proud or too humble to admit what we see in others inside us.

10:02 And we’re only too proud as a dissociation from the shame we have that we’re judging ourself for that trait. And they’re reminding us, that’s why we want to avoid them, because they’re reminding us of a part of us that we haven’t loved in ourself and incorporated. We’ve been disowning it. We’ve been deflecting it, dismembering it. And so that’s a disowned part of our self that these people are bringing into our awareness.

10:27 And we’re judging and avoiding these people or seeking people because we can be too humble to admit what we see in them.

10:32 Right?

10:32 And as a result of it, they’re giving us an opportunity to include the part of us that we’ve disowned. And our fulfillment in life is to the degree that we own it all. Our unfulfillment are all the voids. That’s why whenever we judge somebody above or below us, put them on pedestals or pits, we feel empty. But the second we embrace and reflect and look within and discover it, we thank them for revealing to the part to us the parts we’ve been disowning.

11:00 And when we have all of it and we embrace the hero and the villain, you know, people may not like Donald, but he owns his hero and villain. He’s got people supporting and challenging him. He doesn’t respond and he doesn’t react. He just keeps going. And so that is a, that is a strength actually.

11:19 But we go around and we are addicted to moral hypocrisies that we’re trying to get rid of half of ourself and try to be only one side. And this one-sidedness, the pursuit of one-sidedness is futile. It’s an empty pursuit because you’re not going to get rid of half of yourself. You know, I ask people by the thousands, how many of you have been trying to get rid of a particular trait in your life, negativity, resentful, or whatever, and you still got it? And they all put their hands up and then they go, “Hm, I never thought about that.

11:45 I’ve been on this self-improvement journey to get rid of half of me and only be one-sided because of a moral hypocrisy that I’ve been indoctrinated from mothers, fathers, preachers, teachers, conventions, traditions, mores, or whatever the source is, religions, politics, and I’m now trying to be something that’s nonobtainable and trying to avoid that which is unavoidable, which is a source of human suffering and non-sustainable futility.”

12:10 Brian Rose: And so if I see this characteristic in myself that I consider bad, how do I come to terms with it without continuing to promote it? Because if I am vindictive, if I go and say, “Oh, I’m, I’m naturally vindictive.

12:22 I’m going to do more of that.” I’m guessing that’s not necessarily the greatest way forward. So, how do you come to terms with it, but also maybe not go into it? Or do you go into it?

12:32 Um, you know what I mean?

12:32 John Demartini: I have all the traits. You support my values, I’m nice as a pussycat. You challenge my values, I can be mean as a tiger,

12:41 Right?

12:41 I can be very humble and I can be very arrogant. I can be, I’ve been both. If I look honestly and do a video recording of me with a drone looking over me for 24 hours a day for a three-month period, I’ll find them all. I’ll find kind, cruel, nice, mean, etc. And even those labels are incomplete awarenesses.

13:01 If somebody is nice to somebody and, quote, nice and generous, they could be making them dependent, obligated, less resourceful, less driven, and, and kind of feeling like they’ve got to go and, you know, compensate and they lose their drive in some cases. So you keep them in juvenile dependency by making it generous and and, quote, kind. And on the other side, so that very kind and generous is actually robbing them and basically stingy of them being able to be on their own and be capable of standing on their own two feet.

13:34 So the inside the kind is cruel. It’s like the yin and yang. Inside the cruel is kind. It’s a Daoist understanding. And the times you’re tough on them and you’re, you’re mean and stingy, “No, I won’t take care of that.

13:44 You have to figure it out yourself.” They become resourceful and they become more precociously independent. They become more empowered. So is that mean, nice, or nice? I mean, what?

13:53 So the, the polarities of judgments are actually inseparable. Our, our amygdala, which is our survival subcortical area of our brain, assigns valence, which is positive negative assignment, um, labels to perceptions or events, and then we store that in hippocampus as, uh, episodic memories that we label to be positive or negative, prey or predator, and then we go around and we assume that those are true, but they’re actually incomplete awarenesses or subjective biases that are distortions with false positives and false negatives. So we basically have this assumption about these things that are positive or negative, but there turns out that the very thing you think is a positive has downsides.

14:38 Anybody who’s been out on a date with somebody then thinks, “Oh, this is amazing. I’m infatuated.” Weeks later, they discover, “Woo, it’s not what I thought.”

14:47 And the same thing over on the things you think are terrific. You get this new house. You think, “Oh, I’m going, I’m so happy.” And then six months to a year later, you go, “Frigging house. It’s costing me a fortune.

14:56 It’s taking up all my time.” So you realize that there’s an inseparability of these polarities. Heraclitus called it the unity of opposites, and Hegel called it the synthesis of the pairs of opposites. When we actually realize that there’s neither and that we had imposed on it a judgment because of the moral hypocrisies we’ve been indoctrinated. We’ve labeled it.

15:19 We’re holding ourselves back because anything that’s polarized and valent occupies space and time in our mind and creates intrusive thoughts and we have difficulty sleeping. Insomnia is a byproduct of the labels we project onto things that are incomplete as a reminder and a feedback to let us know we’re judging and not loving our environment. There’s a lot of people out there that can’t sleep right now and they’re thinking there’s no way, no way, Dr. John, that the reason I can’t sleep is because I’ve got unresolved issues in my amygdala.

15:49 But you’re saying but that’s what it is, because what happens is the amygdala, when it sees prey and it assigns positive without negative, and it now creates an impulse to seek and to consume. Um, it has to create a false positive in order to accelerate the adrenaline to capture the prey. So when it does, it accelerates and dramatizes the emotion and subjectively biases the interpretation of the event or perception, and that causes an alertness in order to capture the prey and grab the prey so we won’t starve.

16:19 And the same thing with a predator. So if we see something, we’ll see way more negatives than positives and we’ll have a false positive on the negatives and a false negative on the positives. We’ll distort it. We’ll get our adrenaline going so we can run and get away from the predator. So anything that supports our values or challenges our values represents prey and predator in our mind, and the more polarized it is, the more insomnic we become, because those intrusive thoughts are on alert so we don’t starve and we don’t get eaten, and so it’s a basic survival.

16:49 There’s only two forms of stress that people face in their life. The perception of loss of that which they seek and the perception of gain of that which they try to avoid. The perception of starvation and being eaten to the brain. Right? So anything that supports or challenges our values, back inside the brain in this subcortical area of the brain, is registered as prey and predator.

17:10 And so we literally have these responses, and insomnia is a survival response to make sure that we don’t miss out on food and get eaten. So insomnia is basically a feedback to let us know that we’re highly polarized in our judgment. We’re in an absolute state instead of a relative state. And we’re not seeing both sides simultaneously. We’re seeing one side without the other side to which we’re blind, and therefore we’re trying to avoid a predator and seek a prey.

17:37 And so we’re under alert.

17:38 And so if you never try to resolve those things, if you never go back, they stay in your consciousness until they’re resolved restored.

17:45 Brian Rose: Do they naturally get resolved in people’s lives or no?

17:49 John Demartini: If you have events in life that you make new associations with what you thought was terrible and you find the blessings out of it or the other side, we find the downsides of what we’re infatuated with. We can neutralize that and strengthen our intuitive capacities to see the other side that we’re ignoring, that we’re unconscious of. But in most cases, they get dramatized. They get compound interest. Anxiety disorder is compound interest on the original charge.

18:16 Things that remind you of that promote it, right? Dramatize it, compound it. So you might say that anxiety is nothing but compound interest added to an event that you saw that was imbalanced, that was negative, and ecstatic fantasies that hook people into new relationships over and over again is a compounding on the positive side. Both of them are distractions. Both of them are philic and phobic.

18:40 Both of them are insomniac, stimulating, and they are intrusive thoughts that run our mind. If you go into deep meditation, while you go into the meditation, you can sit there and just go into meditation. You’ll hear all this noise in the brain. All that noise in the brain is the unconscious information that we’re not paying attention to, trying to meet up with the conscious to make us fully conscious to see both sides simultaneously that’s stored in the hippocampus.

19:07 Brian Rose: Will meditation resolve some of that?

19:09 John Demartini: In some cases, meditation, if it’s integrative and not escape, you know, some people use meditation to escape an event and try to dissociate from it. And some people use meditation as an integrative force to actually integrate and look for the opposite and balance the integrate the brain. The medial frontal cortex, the ventral cortex, is designed to integrate. It’s designed to create an integration of pairs of opposites in the brain. The amygdala designed to separate them to make sure you get to avoid predator and seek prey.

19:41 The executive center is designed to integrate them and bring them back to wholeness. Wilhelm Wundt, father of experimental psychology, in 1897 showed very clearly that there’s simultaneous contrast that activates the amygdala, and sequential contrast, and sequential contrast. I see the positive later, I see the negative. I see the negative later, I see the positive. There’s a time gap between it, and that creates an arrow of time with memory and imagination, causes entropy and aging.

20:11 London Real promo: How do you get out of a rat race? How do you create club.

21:08 See you in the investment club.

21:08 John Demartini: And so our, our entropy and our aging process is nothing more than the accumulation of these subconsciously stored judgments that are intrusive that are causing, in a sense, phobias and philias in our minds. And the second we see both sides simultaneously, we liberate ourselves from it. The intrusive thoughts are gone. We have restful sleep. We’re present.

21:30 And the executive center comes online, mitigates the risks of the negative side. Calms down the fantasy and allows us to have an objective state of mind where we’re empowered.

21:39 Brian Rose: Right. And time can also do this. Sometimes, like 20 years after the event, sometimes you’ll look back and say, “You know what, you know, my ex-wife also did wonderful things for me. Thank you.” So sometimes time can help.

21:52 John Demartini: Yes. There’s a thing called a central limit theorem. See, nobody knows the consequences of any action. If you do an act, like you do your show,

22:03 Brian Rose: Yeah, we have no way of knowing all the consequences globally of what that’s going to do.

22:08 John Demartini: But we do know that the probability increases as the ripple effect occurs to get to a perfect balance of supporters and challengers. It will regress to a mean between the pairs of opposites. And so we know that. So the longer time goes on, an event that you thought was terrible or terrific has the capacity, if you awaken your intuition, it can have the capacity to neutralize itself over time. But some people dramatize it and run the story.

22:36 And as long as they run the story, they’re decreasing the probability of having that story being neutralized. And they dramatize it and then they become a victim of their history, not a master of their destiny.

22:46 Brian Rose: Yeah. I did that with my parents’ divorce when I was seven. And, uh, you know, it wasn’t necessarily a traumatic event, but for some reason I latched on to it and I told myself this same story for decades, John, and it wasn’t until I got some perspective and went back and interviewed each one that I realized that was a a maybe not a great moment of my life, but it was, there was a lot of positives, and there was a lot of positives for both my parents. My mom became this amazing independent woman, you know, uh, they were both happier, that we actually did great.

23:14 My mom showed me the world. It was like, “My god,” but I, I blocked it out for so long.

23:18 John Demartini: Well, we create a fantasy about how it should be, ought to be, supposed to be, got to be, have to be, must, and need to be.

23:23 Yeah.

23:23 And then we compare it to what it is. And no matter what goes on, there’s always a pair of opposites in what is. And so if we compare it to a fantasy, which is all positive, we can’t appreciate our life. And so we get depressed because we’re comparing our current reality to a fantasy about how we think it should have been.

23:40 Yeah.

23:40 And that holds us back from appreciating the magnificence of our life.

23:44 Brian Rose: I want to, let’s talk right now, because I want to talk about two things I saw in your movie which are perfect examples. Let’s talk about it now. There’s one point in the movie where you’re talking to a woman who had been traumatized by a violent act. I think an ex-boyfriend or somebody had knocked down the door and beat her up or something.

24:02 Her brother.

24:02 Her brother. Her brother, right? And you were talking to her, trying to get her to find the positives of a massively traumatic experience. And I could see people in the movie theater bristling for the fact that you weren’t celebrating her victimhood and trying to, you know, find this bad man, and you were like, “Okay, but what positive came from that experience?” And people’s jaws were dropping.

24:25 And can you talk about that and why people have that reaction, because in this day’s culture it’s like, no, no, no, no, there’s the victim and then there’s this, and clearly a bad thing that happened. What happened there and what were you trying to do?

24:39 John Demartini: William James, the father of modern psychology, in about 1890s said that the greatest discovery of his generation’s that human beings can alter their lives by alternate perceptions and attitudes of mind. So there’s an event out there. It’s true. How you see the event is totally up to you. The event is neutral until you come to the table with an expectation or perception.

25:03 Let me give you an example. If I was to pick your hand and put it on the table here, let’s imagine a table here, and I put your hand on it and I took a big sledgehammer and I slammed your thumb and you were, “Whoa. Ah!” You probably imagine that being traumatic, and you’d probably be angry at me and disperse because the associations you have and the expectation you have is that’s trauma. But what if I prefaced it?

25:29 I said, “I’m going to give you a billion US dollars in cash. Tax-free US dollars in cash. I’m going to give you the mansion of your dreams on the location of your dreams. Tax-free. It’s yours.

25:45 Uh, the male or female of your dreams. Now being introduced to you, you find the person you’ve always wanted.” And I stack up enough benefits to that. And I said, “All I have to do is slam the thumb. Your thumb will be probably injured for about 10 days and two weeks you’ll be normal again.”

26:04 But I put enough of those on there. I ask how many would allow me to slam the thumb. Every hand goes up.

26:09 Sign me up.

26:11 So now the expectation, the perception is completely different because you have new associations associated with the same event. Slamming of thumb. So is the slamming of thumb trauma? If you say so. If it’s associated with more advantages than disadvantages, it’s not.

26:28 Somebody can actually be a somebody, a radical fundamentalist in religion or whatever, and die for their cause, and they will take it on because they’ve been told that in the afterlife you’re going to get 72 virgins or something. You’re going to stack up enough benefits, they’ll go and do something because of the associations, expectations, and, you know, how you perceive it. So an event is neutral until we bring to the table our expectations, our perceptions, our indoctrination of moral hypocrisies about how life’s supposed to be, and we, as a result of it, then label it that way.

27:03 So I’ve been blessed to take people who’ve been traumatized. Had a guy had his buddy walk over a mine, crawl over a mine in front of him, and he saw the mine and he tried to warn the guy, it’s too late, and it blew up and had most of his buddy all over his body.

27:17 Wow.

27:17 I mean, just, and we went through and took each frame of that experience and found what happens, uh, when the mind dissociates from the trauma, dissociates and creates an anti-memory, an anti-perception. And if I can show them the anti-perceptions in each frame of that experience and put those two together, the so-called trauma and ecstasy, or torture and ecstasy, come together, and I like to think of love as the synthesis of all pairs of opposites, and I can show them, and all of a sudden they’re in tears of gratitude for the event, and it’s hard to comprehend as somebody that’s just hearing it. But when you actually see it and talk to the person, you go, “Whoa, this is amazing.”

27:58 Brian Rose: I think how do they get to gratitude in that event when their buddy’s blown up?

28:01 John Demartini: Because what they, they they realize their mind dissociates. When somebody’s in a near-death experience or they’re traumatized, they call it, or whatever, their mind will create an anti-experience in order to balance it, to keep the excitation and inhibition ratios in the brain balanced. The brain has to have a homeostatic state. So, it’ll create the opposite. And our intuition is trying to help us see it, but our impulses and instincts of our amygdala override it with drama, and we run the story, and we stop ourselves from being able to see the other side.

28:31 But if I go in there and I get them really present in the moment of the perception of that, and take them frame by frame and let them now, and I ask them exactly what the anti-content is. If they’re darkness, where’s light? I’ll give a real case. It’s an interesting case.

28:46 So this happened quite a few years ago. A lady comes to me and she was four years old. Her father staked her to the ground with tent stakes, arms and legs staked. There was a pet pig that she had gotten, won from some sort of contest, that grew up and was destroying the house and destroying the yard, and the father finally just lost it. I, he came home and it was just a mess.

29:13 So he lost it, went out of control, tied her down to the ground, and she, he stabbed the pig on a tarpole and wrapped it up in the thing and took it away. Killed the pig. She, he just said, “I can’t have this pig anymore.” And he just lost it emotionally. So I think we’ve all had moments where we’ve just right to that edge.

29:32 So the lady was, quote, traumatized. That’s what she did. Now this was four. She was now uh 35 years later. So she’s 39 when I met her.

29:43 And she’d been running that story with her therapist and her specialist for 35 freaking years.

29:50 Brian Rose: We’ll talk about therapists later.

29:51 John Demartini: Yeah. Well, I’m not going to go there. Okay. But anyway, uh, so she dissociated at that moment, and I said, “Now go to that moment when you’re in the backyard, it’s dusk, you’re being staked to the ground by your father and you’re hearing a squealing pig as it’s getting stabbed.” As you’re being constrained, I said, “Go into that moment of constraint.

30:15 Close your eyes. Get present.” Because it’s a moment of perception. Uh, that’s when the memory and the anti-memory separate and are judged by the amygdala. The second we go and perceive it and label it negative, terrible, our mind will dissociate and create this opposite.

30:32 It’s like a freeze response. So I asked her to go in that moment. “What are you perceiving?” “I’m perceiving a bit cool and dark.” But her mind dissociated from that.

30:46 And she saw herself going through a field in a warm sunny place in her mind. I said, “Great. At that moment when you’re in that state, you feel constrained.” “In that moment I’m running through a field. There’re butterflies and birds and I’m free.

31:08 We’re just running freely through this field.” The brain creates the anti-memory. Neuron magazine, March 17th, 2016, has a great article on the anti-memory and the E/I ratios. So at that moment we then realized then all of a sudden the father stabs the pig, and at that moment she dissociated, and when she did, she thought, “I have not, I’m uh, powerless to stop my father.” So she imagined power coming there, and she saw a white light that she, from her indoctrination from her childhood, believed to be God.

31:43 So she imagined a white light like the sun. As a stabbing occurred, a white dove symbolizing peace from her instruction from church. Anything we’ve been taught in our life that’s stored with valence in our psyche can be pulled up and brought in to create the anti-memory, the content that is counterbalancing what she’s experiencing. At that exact moment when she’s feeling that “I have hopelessness, I feel powerless,” comes God. Hope and power.

32:11 “I’m now being death and stabbing,” eternal life, a symbol of a little angel dove, symbolic from a Christian bringing up. We went through there and there were four stabbings. Four doves went around the white light. This father wouldn’t listen to her and she was yelling. He would not listen.

32:32 This godlike figure and these angels were listening to her and guiding her and saying everything’s fine. Everything’s okay. So at that exact moment when she was doing this, the anti-memory was there, and when I showed her this and made her aware of both of them, they come together and they synthesize and they get a gamma synchronicity in the brain. This one creates a sympathetic response. This one creates a parasympathetic response.

32:56 They come together when autonomic regulation and they get this synthesis and synchronicity, and a gamma synchronicity in the brain occurs, and there’s an aha moment, and there’s all of a sudden a hidden order from the apparent chaos, because chaos is basically missing information. You’re missing the positives here. You’re missing the negatives there. But together, if you see them simultaneous, as Wilhelm once says, synchronous, um, simultaneity of contrast brings love.

33:22 Love is the synthesis and synchronicity of all complimentary opposites. No matter what it is, the unity of opposites Heraclitus described. In that moment when she got that, she broke out in tears and she realized that she is a medical intuitive using her psychic, quote, abilities, which is actually a dissociative psychosis, but her psychic abilities to access these angels to guide her and people’s lives. I said, “So, these have been with you since you were a child?”

33:55 “Yes, they’ve been my gods and they started me on my spiritual quest, my personal development quest, my intuitive quest, my psychic abilities, etc.” Did you thank your father? And she just stalled and just, it just shocked for a second and then she goes, starts bawling, “Because I never saw that the very career that I have, the very service I have, the thing that I’m known for, the thing I’ve written a book about, my intuitive capacities stem from that so-called post-traumatic stress disorder.”

34:29 When she did that, that frame of that whole event had no trauma. There’s no trauma left. There’s no ecstasy, no trauma. And then I said, “Now, now that you realize that they’re pairs of opposites and you integrated them and you got a gamma synchronicity in brain and there’s no polarity sitting there, now try to access, because right now you’re not angry with your father and you needed to be angry about this torture in order to access this opposite state.

34:57 This one’s gone. This one’s gone. Now just go into there and try to relive this.” She goes, “I can’t access it. It’s not there.”

35:04 And I said, “No, nor is this one.” She said, “Well, am I going to lose my angel guides?” I said, “These angel guides were never angel guides. They’re you. They’re projections of your own thing.”

35:15 At the Bardo Thodol, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, it says, “At the moment you’re passing, you’re presented with both peaceful and wrathful deities. But fear not, for they are nothing but projections of your own mind.” So these were projections. This was a trauma that was assumed, that was a negative without a positive that causes excitation and addition in the brain. The anti comes in, the dissociated opposite, anti-memory comes in to get the E/I ratios back into balance to stabilize the brain.

35:45 And when you put those two together and be fully conscious of it, not half conscious and half conscious, but fully conscious, the whole thing is dissolved. There’s no trauma. There’s no ecstasy. You had separated the ecstasy from the trauma in that moment and ran the dramatic story and kept the drama going and have now an instinct. And anybody that reminds you of your father, anybody reminds you of any aspects of that, you’re now going to be an avoidance response.

36:08 And yet at the same time, anybody that reminds you of this, you’re going to be in a seeking response. So you’ve been on a path of seeking. Anybody that’s in that world of esoteric

36:17 And not taking her own credit for that, not realizing that that’s not outside. Anytime you blame things on the outside, you give credit to things on the outside to keep those things balanced. Got it?

36:27 And so she was giving credit out here and giving blame out here. And the whole thing was nothing but her own doing. So it’s not what happens to you, it’s your perceptions of it.

36:35 Brian Rose: And by neutralizing that, what can she now do?

36:39 John Demartini: Well, her clientele changed from partly psychotic schizophrenics that were dissociated, excuse the expression, but she was working with people that were also like her, right?

36:48 To raising her fees, stabilizing her perception of her own life. Uh, now working with a client, being more reasonable with her, um, understanding, more rational, and realizing this was her, that she had been dissociated the entire time. So, evolution, transformation, becoming the person you really are, moving from her amygdala function,

37:12 Brian Rose: Right, where she’s a victim of history to her executive function where she’s now a master of her destiny.

37:17 John Demartini: That’s what happened. Her self-worth went up because blaming does not raise your self-worth and giving dissociation. See, anytime you give credit to something out there, you minimize yourself. Anytime you blame somebody, you exaggerate yourself. And those are not you.

37:31 Those are all inauthentic impostor syndromes. The real you is always the center between the pairs of opposites, and that’s the one that is the hero and the villain. You know, she’s the hero with this one and the villain with this one in her perceptions. But when she integrated her own hero and villain and realized where she has done those things also, that was her the whole time, it was her.

37:53 Wow.

37:53 And we want to run our story and dramatize it, and we keep ourselves in a victim of history for days, months, years, decades. I know some people are 70 years into it because they just, they keep dramatizing it.

38:08 And everyone watching us right now has one of these on some type of level, big or small, deep down inside you and in your past. And it’s holding you back from

38:19 Well, it’s catalyzing, too. I mean, we don’t want to Well, I’m gonna go, we’re gonna go down the rabbit hole now.

38:26 Brian Rose: Yeah, because I’m associating things with that as well too, right? So, go ahead.

38:29 John Demartini: Uh, everybody has a hierarchy of values, which we said, I think, on a previous show. Everybody has a hierarchy of values, a set of priorities they live their life by. The very highest priority, the very highest value, Aristotle called the telos, the end in mind, the final cause. This telos is the path of purpose for people, and each individual’s purpose is the most efficient and effective pathway to fulfill the greatest amount of voids with the greatest amount of value.

39:03 And the voids are all the disowned parts that we’re too proud or too humble to admit that we project onto things. See, she was too humble to admit that that was her, the angels. She’s too proud to admit that that was her, the father. When she integrated that and became equanimous and in equity between these outside sources, evoked potentials, as they call it in the brain, and integrated it, she had a spontaneous potential in the brain, which is an aha moment, which is a synchronicity, which is a sign and confirmation of authenticity, and in that state she’s empowered and in that state she’s fulfilling the voids because she’s no longer judging.

39:42 See, it’s the judgment. When you’re infatuated with somebody and you’re conscious of the positives and unconscious of the negatives, you’re too humbled to admit what you see in them inside you. So, you’re disowning a part. When you’re resentful to somebody and you’re too proud to admit it and you’re to admit that you have that behavior,

40:39 London Real promo: Peter Thiel took a half a million dollars and have to have the financial education and the deal flow. That’s it.

40:58 John Demartini: You’re disowning a part. Anytime you disown a part, you have voids, emptiness. That’s why anytime we judge, we feel empty. We don’t feel fulfilled. But anytime we integrate them and own them and we feel love and realize that there are teachers teaching us how to own the parts we’ve been disowning, we get to have a moment of fulfillment.

41:16 And the gamma synchronicities is a confirmation of an autonomic regulation where we have the most resilience and adaptability in our state of consciousness and we’re free. We’re not having insomnia and we’re not having all the emotional vicissitudes of the autonomics running epigenetics and creating symptoms in our body to try to wake us up. It’s helping us love and helping us bring wellness and the wellness quotient goes up.

41:40 Brian Rose: Okay. Wow. Now, we quickly talked about therapists, but in the current world we’re in, her trauma would on social media have been celebrated. Um, the father would have been demonized and her therapist would have, uh, showed how that was the reason nothing in her life was working.

41:57 Exactly.

41:58 And would have rehashed it every week, uh, for a couple hundred bucks an hour for 20 years.

42:03 John Demartini: Yep. That’s what she was going through. And, uh, you know, there’s therapists who are very aware and who do extraordinary work and help transform people’s lives. And there are therapists that are wounded, that are stuck, and they’re surrounding themselves with clients so they can justify their angers and their own stuckness. And there’s a whole gradation of therapy from those that are, you know, victims of their history to those that are masters of destiny.

42:32 I’ve met some therapists that are brilliant. I’ve met others that are just wounded individuals and they’re reactive and they’re projecting their judgments onto their clients and waiting for those clients to come in so they can dramatize their own stuff and the client stuff. But there’s stages of awareness, you know, if you have in first grade, you know, you’re told that an atom is a little ball. It’s not the truth, but you’re told that and you had to be told that illusion till you’re ready for the next thing, that it’s a little bit of a Bohr model.

43:03 It’s a little solar system, and you have to be told that illusion until you’re ready for the next one when you go to college and you find out it’s quantum numbers. It’s probability distributions made out of complex mathematical square roots of negative one. And then we realize, well, that’s not it too, because those are infinitesimal space non-spaceious electrons. And so we don’t really know. It’s a mystery.

43:25 And so we have to teach them the illusion till they’re ready for truth. And the way in almost every field in therapy, there’s no different. You teach them the illusion until they’re ready for truth. And when they’re ready for truth, the teacher, the next teacher appears, the next therapist takes them up the next level, and they get frustrated. I had a gentleman who, um, came to my Breakthrough Experience and he’s been raging about his father and been going to his therapist for I think 14 years about his father.

43:54 The woman is like a mother for him. So he’s got a mother fixation and he’s got a father resentment. Here comes the Breakthrough and I just asked some series of questions that made him ask, I asked him things he never asked. You know, the quality of your life is based on the questions you ask. If you ask a question that makes you conscious of what you’ve been unconscious of, you can become fully conscious.

44:15 And so I navigate people and help people balance the perceptions of their reality so they actually see what’s actually there, not what they just created in their own mind.

44:25 Brian Rose: How do you find the problem with a guy like that? Cuz you don’t know that history when he walks in.

44:29 John Demartini: Well, he gives some of that history. My father was abusive, and he tells me everything his therapist has told him,

44:36 Right? Okay.

44:36 He runs the story, right?

44:37 And, uh, so I helped him break through this thing and he ran out of the program three times, and I went out and chatted with him and he came back in and he says, “You’re like my father, and so I’m, you’re now doing the very thing which is exactly what I was needing to do to get him to bring it all up.” So we got to it and we broke it through and he had a gully-washing appreciation for his father because he never saw that his business came out of his father’s behavior, his drive, the people that he associated with, the schooling he went off to do. I mean, he just never tied the correlated all the upsides to what happened with his father.

45:15 But he broke through and he had this absolute tear of gratitude and he felt love for his father, and he actually played, I got to play the surrogate role of his father and it was like a son for me and we had this beautiful, I mean, heart-opening, gully-washing tears in the eyes, tears in the nose, snot, even drooling. I mean, he really had a catharsis appreciation because he’d been storing all this stuff for all these years. Well, that was on a Saturday and Sunday.

45:44 On Monday, he went back to his therapist and his therapist said, “Well, you went to the seminar. What happened?” He says, “Well, I finally got to love my father and I’ve never felt this much appreciation for my father, and I wrote him an amazing letter and, uh, sent it to him and I’m waiting for his response, but it’s just been absolutely, I just, I slept last night like a baby. It’s like different. I don’t have all this noise in my brain.”

46:09 And she says, “Oh my god. Oh my god. You just destroyed 14 years’ worth of therapy. Your father is dysfunctional. You’re an innocent victim.

46:20 You just go and call him back and get your money back, cuz we’re going to need that money for therapy.” So, he’s frightened of losing his mommy now. He gets on the phone. He calls me. And I could tell her that she was in the room.

46:33 It was very obvious because he was shaken. And I said to him, I said, “Your therapist has asked you to call. It’s pretty obvious.” And, um, you know what you experienced yesterday, when you’re ready for that to really sink in and to really play with it, just know I’m here for you. I’ll be glad to give you your money back and you can pay your therapist and everything else.

46:55 If you decide that the dependency on your mommy figure and you wear out on that and you want to come back, just know I’m going to ask you to pay that back and we’ll continue and that, but that’s perfectly fine.” And I gave him his money back and it was eight years he played that and finally he had a big fight with his mom, right? The therapist comes back, the program pays the difference, comes back and dissolves it. And then we dissolved the dependency on the mom because he was resenting his dad and depending on his mom, and we dissolved the mom and cleared that and it changed his dynamic.

47:30 His business stability changed, his dependency on certain type of females, uh, would change, because as long as he’s infatuated with his mom, the women are going to have to be his father.

47:40 Brian Rose: Got it. Wow. And so that was eight years.

47:43 Eight years later.

47:44 Eight years later.

47:45 John Demartini: Yeah. He comes. He had a little less hair and he came and he says, “I’m ready.” He says, “I finally told my mom off.” I said, “Great.

47:52 You started to see the downsides of your mom. You started to see the positives of your dad and you’re bringing those back into balance, and you thought there was a dysfunctional family and you were addicted with your amygdala to being supported and never challenged and being peace and never war. But love is a balance of peace and war, brother. Love is a synthesis of all unity of opposites. It’s basically a pair of opposites.”

48:12 And he was ready. And so there was a maturity. That’s maturity, in a sense. When you can handle life as it actually is and stop living in a fantasy about what you think it should be, you can liberate yourself from the bondage of the distress that you create for yourself, searching for that which is unobtainable and trying to avoid that which is unavoidable.

48:30 Brian Rose: You said the word distress. You also talk about a word called eustress. I want to bring it up before I forget about it. What are the differences between those things, because a lot of people have that bad association with that word distress. But can you just talk about it, because you’re the only guy I’ve ever heard use that word eustress.

48:45 John Demartini: Well, eustress means true stress. And true stress is absolutely essential to maximize potential. It’s a challenge. When you pursue challenges that inspire you, you have eustress. When you’re trying to avoid challenges that despire you, you have distress.

49:00 So, if you’re in your amygdala and you’re trying to avoid a predator and seek a prey, and you’re trying to avoid challenge and seek support, then when things support you, you go, “Oh, I’m happy.” When things challenge you, I’m now really resentful. I’m really hating it. Because now you’re trying to avoid that and you can’t. It’s like trying to take a magnet cut in half and get only one side of the magnet.

49:19 I want the positive pull of the magnet without the negative. I want the heads of the coin without the tails. But imagine if you’re looking for a one-sided coin. How much wealth could you accumulate? You’d only be able to keep the coin if you got a heads on without a tails.

49:34 You can’t. So anytime you try to separate the inseparables, divide the indivisibles, label the unlabelables, name the inevitables, polarize the unpolarizables, you’re playing in Stuckville, and the second you integrate and embrace both of them in the pursuit, you now have life and you have eustress. Eustress is what creates innovation, creativity, and genius. When I spoke to the UN, I talked about innovation. And innovation is maximized when you’re pursuing challenges that inspire you.

50:01 You’re looking for a problem in the world that you feel you could dedicate and make a difference in. And when you’re doing that, the challenge is actually innovative, invigorating to solve. But when you are looking for a fantasy and then life brings you the nightmare and you’re trying to avoid the nightmare, that’s distress.

50:19 Brian Rose: And that’s why you’re always talking about values and you’re always stressing that people find out their values. And this is really interesting when I heard you talk about that, because I’ve heard you say this and you say it better than me, but if you fill your days with all these activities that aren’t contributing or aren’t aligned with your values, then you’re stressed out and it just bothers you, because I guess deep down inside you know you’re not going where you’re supposed to go. But if you fill your day with all these activities that align with your values, then you’re living in this really, I guess, incredible or

50:48 John Demartini: Well, it’s not, when you, the supposed to go is not, that’s an outside influence.

50:53 Okay.

50:53 So when you’re doing something, everybody has a hierarchy of values. When you’re doing whatever is highest on your value, you’re spontaneously inspired from within. Whatever is really, really, really inspiring to you, do you ever need to be motivated to do?

51:05 No.

51:05 No. You know, the guy who loves video games, he doesn’t have to be reminded and say, “Johnny, it’s time to do that video game.” You know, he just does it. We spontaneously are inspired from within. There’s literally spontaneous action potentials in the ventral prefrontal cortex.

51:22 And whenever we’re doing the highest priority action, that area of the brain in functional MRIs lights up and we’re now living congruently and authentically according to what’s most meaningful, most inspiring, most fulfilling. Maximizing prioritization is the key in self-actualization. That is the path of self-actualization. Now, anytime you try to live by lower values, which are derivative values, according to Hartman, and that’s primarily because you’re comparing yourself to other people, you’re putting on a pedestal and injecting their values.

51:52 See, in the hierarchy of values, values go from those who have the most power to those that have the least power in society. So, if you’re a Catholic, the pope has the most power. So, he projects the values that you are trying to live by. And you’re now trying to be a good little person living by duty according to that set of values. He may be living according to what’s inspiring to him and he’s living by design, but you’re living by duty.

52:15 Ontological, deontological, they call it. So, as we go through life, anytime we meet somebody, we walk in a mall and we see somebody we think’s more intelligent or more business savvy or more financially aware or more family stable or more socially connected or more physically fit or attractive or more spiritually aware. Anytime we subordinate and are too humble to admit what we see in them is inside us and put them on a pedestal, we’re going to inject some of their values and cloud the clarity of our own calling, of our own highest value.

52:45 And we’ll cloud it up. And when we do, the blood glucose oxygenation goes from the forebrain down into the amygdala. The amygdala is wanting to avoid pain and seek pleasure. It’s trying to polarize it. It’s trying to separate things.

52:55 It’s dividing us up. It’s creating false personas. And we’re now creating a mythological, uh, phenomenological reality instead of an awareness of the actual truth about life. And in that moment, we’re now striving for that which is unobtainable and trying to avoid that which is unavoidable. And we’re now creating distress.

53:12 The distress is not our enemy though. The distress is a feedback to let us know we’re pursuing fantasies that are being as a result of injected values. The way we know we’ve got injected values is we hear ourselves saying, “I should, I ought to, I’m supposed to, I got to, I have to, I must, I need to.” And we think we’re sabotaging and we think we’re not being disciplined. We think we’re not being focused.

53:33 What’s wrong with us? We’re self-deprecating because anytime we’re not living authentically, we’re designed to be that way to let us know we’re not living according to what’s priority.

53:42 Okay.

53:42 And when we fill our day with high priority actions and delegate lower priority actions, we liberate ourselves.

53:47 Brian Rose: But this is hard to see for people a lot of times in their life. It’s hard to know what their values are or hard to see this feedback loop. Sometimes.

53:56 John Demartini: It’s as hard as it takes to go on my website and take 30 minutes of your time to go fill out a questionnaire to make you look at it, and when you do, it’s an eye-opening, because you kind of go, well, now I realize why I’m creating the world I’m creating.

54:09 Brian Rose: Right. So this was me 14 years ago before I started London Real. I was working as a banker in the City of London and I told myself for 20, 30 years of my life that when I get rich I’m going to be happy, and so I was singularly focused on making that money and I had done the bank and I started doing it and, and I was doing it and I slowly realized that that was not my highest priority value and I had to drag myself in. I was like the worst employee at the end and I was drinking myself to death because I was unhappy, and I couldn’t see it because I was so fixated that this had to be the solution to my life.

54:44 And then one day, I don’t know, actually I took a meditation course for some reason and I got to see myself for a glimpse. “John, wait a second. You’re just miserable. Why are you doing this stupid thing that’s making you more and more miserable? You got to stop.”

54:56 And then I didn’t realize what was happening at the time, but now that must be it. Is that I realized that I wasn’t living to my values.

55:04 John Demartini: Anytime you’re not fulfilling your highest value, you go into the amygdala. When you do, you create addictive, compulsive, impulsive, immediate gratifying behaviors thinking that this will solve my problem. That’s a normal behavior.

55:17 Okay.

55:18 Sign. Anytime you have impulsive, compulsive, and type of behaviors, immediate gratification, you automatically, it’s a sign of unfulfilled highest values.

55:26 So finding out what that highest value is and starting to prioritize your life to do that and delegating lower priority things liberates the unfulfillment, allows you to have more fulfillment.

55:35 Brian Rose: All right. So go deep on that. Go to your website and fill out the questionnaire. And then you said,

55:39 John Demartini: Yeah, take it free.

55:40 Brian Rose: And you said retake it again in a week because you probably are lying to yourself the first time.

55:43 John Demartini: Most people, I’ve been doing value determinations 47 years.

55:46 Brian Rose: Okay. I took your values test a year or two ago.

55:49 John Demartini: 47 years ago I asked myself why is it that some people walk their talk and some people live their life? Why are some people doing what they say and others don’t? Why is McGregor in his 1960 thing had Theory Y and Theory X? Some people are intrinsically driven to do things and other people have to be constantly reminded and motivated. Why?

56:08 And that led me to the study of axiology, which is a study of values and worth. And there’s only about a dozen books in English in that. I devoured them all. I really, I’m amazed that the most important topic of the freaking human behavior has only 12 books on the market at the time. But I realized that most of the works that were written were, uh, about how we ought to be, not how we are.

56:32 And David Hume, the Scottish philosopher, outlined is versus ought. You know, how we ought to be in society versus how we are in society. And I realized that most people were indoctrinated about the, by the moral hypocrisies from mothers, fathers, preachers, teachers, and religions and politics. And they said, “Well, this is how I ought to be.” And they’re trying to fit in and conform to this, the system.

56:56 And then there’s how we are. And I wanted to create a system about how we are, because Schwartz and all the other people, Hartman, they had all these different modalities to determine your values. But it was all about how you should be. And it was super, very superficial and very subjective. I want to create some more scientific, more objective questioning that allow us to look at what your life demonstrates because every decision you make, every perception you make, every action you take is based on those values.

57:23 So I can, by asking a set of questions, I can narrow down what’s really important to you, not what you think it is. And I’ve done enough of them, thousands of them, to know that very few people ever know what their real values are. Most people are actually living it with this cloudiness about shoulds and ought to and supposed to. And I listen very carefully to all those words when people speak. And I can tell when they’re injecting and when they’re actually talking, because when they’re talking on something inspired, they don’t think of themselves as making mistakes and self-sabotaging.

57:56 You know, you never make a mistake in your own values. You only make a mistake when you compare your actions that are spontaneously acted upon by your values in terms of other people’s values you’re comparing yourself to.

58:06 Right.

58:06 And that’s why the self-deprecation is a feedback to guide us back to what is really priority.

58:11 Brian Rose: Can your values change over time?

58:12 John Demartini: Oh, they do. My values were baseball when I was 3 to 13. Then it went to surfing, 13 to 18. Then it went to teaching, and, uh, probably until my end of my life that would probably be my highest priorities, is teaching.

58:27 Brian Rose: Has your value in that teaching space kind of morphed and changed?

58:31 John Demartini: Oh yeah.

58:32 Okay.

58:32 It started in the health area. I devoured everything on health and physiology and nutrition and that area. But I realized that a lot of the people, and I started having clinical cases, I started realizing there’s a lot of stuff going on in their psyche in every area of their life affecting their health, and it broadened. And so it realized that that well-being, wellness was really more broad than, because Ornstein talked about the people we associate with affecting our illnesses.

58:59 And if we hang out with different people, we hang out, we get different physiological responses. And if we’re around people that are inspired by something versus dramatizing, and then it affects our physiology. So all areas of our life are affecting health, and in fact all areas are affecting all other areas. Your finances are affected by these others and your finances affect all others. So I started to think more holistically and that expanded my outreach, because I started in the health field lecturing on health back in the ’70s, ’80s, and then I started to broaden that about the late ’80s.

59:32 I started getting more, I started realizing that it’s more than just what you eat and, you know, uh, how you exercise or whatever. It’s a little bit more than that. There’s more factors. There’s unconscious motives for a lot of illnesses. I saw patients used to come in and they had unconscious motives not to get well.

59:51 I had a lady that was making between 18 and $25,000 every time she got in a car accident. And that’s how she was living, going from car accident to car accident. I thought, this is interesting. Here’s a person that’s getting more advantage out of going through car accidents than disadvantage in her mind. Long term, she may pay a price for it, but it’s a strategy right now to pay bills because she doesn’t have a job.

1:00:12 Brian Rose: Their strategy to survive.

1:00:14 That’s pretty crazy. Okay.

1:00:14 John Demartini: I saw another, I saw another lady that created an illness in order to get her family to come visit her.

1:00:21 I see all kind of stuff.

1:00:21 Brian Rose: Okay. So then you pivoted.

1:00:22 John Demartini: So when then you realize that there’s another aspect of the wellness arts that I wanted to incorporate. So I just kept expanding it.

1:00:30 Brian Rose: Okay. I want to take another example. I don’t know if I saw this in the movie or saw you talk about it somewhere else. And this is another extreme, like the pig thing as well, which I really think gets people’s attention, because they’ll come in thinking, well, it has to be this way. And I think when you explain it, they’ll start to see it in both ways.

1:01:43 I think you were talking to the parents of a daughter who had overdosed. I don’t know if this was in the movie or not. I don’t know if this is ringing a bell. And everyone was celebrating her life and mourning her life as this, you know, a void that could never be filled. And I think you sat down with the parents and were audacious enough to ask, well, what were the bad things about her?

1:02:10 What don’t you miss about her? Because she couldn’t have been this angel. And so, there must be something in here that maybe is the opposite of polarity of celebrating. And maybe we should also realize that there are some good, some bad things about her that we’re g, that we’re glad are no longer here. And I don’t know if it was in the movie, but I know people heard this and they were like, “How dare he ever ask this question about someone, you know, a daughter or a son that has died, you know, through this, you know, overdose thing, you know, how could you ever dare look and say, was she a bad person?”

1:02:43 Cuz she couldn’t be, clearly. Tell me if I’m getting this story right and talk about how you’re trying to see the opposite polarity here.

1:02:50 John Demartini: Yeah. Well, I’ll just share in generics first. If, um, you’re in a relationship, the first few weeks or months, you might be fooled into thinking there’s more advantages than disadvantages, more positives than negatives, more pluses than minuses, but slowly but surely they surface and you start to thinking, “Oh my god.” And then you start to question, can I endure all these things? And when do I love them enough to embrace all this?

1:03:18 And you eventually discover they have things you like and dislike. You ask anybody who’s married for 60 years, uh, can you rattle off the positives and the negatives of this person? They can rattle both of them. There’s no question. And you can also resent somebody and then over time you can discover the upsides to them.

1:03:34 So when we’re fooled by an infatuation or resentment, we’re not seeing the whole. We’re choosing with our bias to see one side. And of course, we’re trapping ourselves because now we’re going to fear the loss of what we’re infatuated with. We’re going to fear the gain of what we resent. The more polarized we are, the more fear we live in.

1:03:51 The fear of loss and fear of gain. Fear of loss of. And by the way, that leads to eating disorders. When you fear the loss of something you want, you create ghrelin, which is an eating hormone to make you want to eat. Makes you more hungry.

1:04:04 And when you have something to avoid, something you don’t want, you get leptin to shut down the hunger, and so you create these gyrations based on the perceptions of stresses. I ask people, uh, how many of you found when you’re stressed you overeat? Half the room at least. And then I ask how many undereat, and sometimes it’s the same people, and or the other half, because we do that because of the type of stress that we’re perceiving. So when we realize that that’s not who these people are, that’s the perception we have temporarily, then we can go and ask if you’re actually infatuated with somebody and they die, you’re going to grieve their loss.

1:04:39 When Donald Trump got out Soleimani, the Iranian general, the people in America celebrated his death because he was considered a villain, a terrorist. Five million people came out and celebrated his with grief in Iran because he was a hero there. So he’s a hero in Iran and there was a villain here. We celebrate his death and go, “Finally,” and over there they mourned his death because they had more positives than negatives. They mourned and we go, had more negatives than positives.

1:05:07 We celebrate it. So we have relief when we see more negatives than positives when somebody dies. We have grief when we see more positives than negatives when they die. So grief and relief are two poles of a magnet, like philia and phobia, positive and negative. And when you put them together and balance the equation, out comes love.

1:05:25 And when you have love, you feel present with the person. So when I take people through the grief process, which I’ve been developing, I started developing in ’76 and ’84. I’ve been clinically doing it over 5,000 cases of grief, nobody has to grieve on this planet more than three hours. And that’s shocking to people to do. And I’ve done demonstrations of it repeatedly and been on television and radio and under KO University research and it has not failed on the process, because it’s not, you know, when you pass, you don’t want people to be grieving on people you love.

1:05:58 You want them to live their life to the fullest.

1:06:00 Yeah.

1:06:00 So it’s sort of a selfish act to sit there and grieve and to basically, you’re basically telling people that you were infatuated with parts and you’re burying the parts you resented that you didn’t like. If I go in there and find out what are the downsides to the traits you admired and the upsides to the traits you despise and bring those back into balance and show you the new forms in which the traits are now in your life, I can dissolve your grief, and people go, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, but I thought it’s healthy to grief.” No, prolonged grief syndrome causes cardiovascular, immune system dysfunction.

1:06:35 Some cancers are associated with it. I could go on and on on the downsides of prolonged grief. So, we’re not supporting, um, people by prolonging their grief as some people do and some therapists even do. We’re actually liberating them by helping them get present and face the truth that life has both life and death in it. And your body is living and dying 24 hours a day.

1:06:57 It’s got mitosis, apoptosis. It’s got, uh, reduction and oxidation. It’s got metabolism that’s made out of anabolism and catabolism. There’s always building, destroying going on. And life is that way.

1:07:08 And if we’re not prepared for that, we live in a fantasy and then we end up making grief. If we’re resenting somebody, we actually go, “Oh, they deserve it.” You know, when you

1:07:19 They’re not healthy.

1:07:20 When you, well, be both of those cause, uh, illness. They prolong illness. So, we go around and there’s people when the 9/11 occurred, there were certain people according to what I’ve seen on YouTube. What’s true? I don’t know.

1:07:34 But on there, there were some people celebrating that collapsing of the buildings because they didn’t like America. They were celebrating it. Other people were mourning it. So the people that were infatuated with it mourned it. And the people that resented what it stood for were celebrating.

1:07:50 So grief and relief are two sides of one magnet. And if you balance out the magnet, you can transcend both. And when you do, you feel love. And when you do, you feel the presence of the individual, and you’re thankful for while they were alive and you’re thankful for their passing, because who are you to decide when they were supposed to go. If we’re comparing it to when we think it should have been, then our fantasy, we’re depressed and angry because it’s not matching our fantasy.

1:08:15 The way they win is the reality of what they went. That’s when they go. That’s the fact of life.

1:08:21 Brian Rose: Now, what if you have a young child? This will be hard for parents to hear, you know, and they’re going to feel responsible regardless if they’re a young child. And how can you say that there was some bad things there? This is so hard to find.

1:08:32 John Demartini: Well, no, that’s not true.

1:08:33 Tell me.

1:08:33 Uh, I’ve had many, many, many children that have passed away or had stillborns or young babies or whatever that have been killed and sometimes car injuries. I had one woman that had four children in a car on a way to go to a mall and a truck killed all four children, and she was now a mom in the morning and not a mom in the afternoon, and we took her through all four of them. So we think that that’s going to make it some different because we get a lot of oxytocin and a lot of vasopressin, which are the two chemical compounds that we experience when we get grief.

1:09:08 But the reality is that you can go in there and find out the other side because a child, when a mother has a baby, there’s two sides to the mother. She may not want to admit it, but the two sides of mother, the part that goes, “Oh my baby, I’m so happy,” and the other one goes, “What’s going to happen to my life? I’m not knowledgeable. I don’t know what I’m doing.” In some cases it’s a first baby and what’s going to happen to my career, my life, my relationship, is my, there’s both sides of that baby, and the day that baby’s born there’s also, uh, you know, painful boobs and there’s long night hours and there’s two sides to raising a child.

1:09:45 In fact, if you look really honestly, there’s things you like and dislike in your own family. And but we, if you ask people who’ve been married for any period of time and ask them, could you label things you like and dislike in your husband? They can rattle them off and this is what I’m annoyed by, but this is what I stay in there for. If this one gets larger, they start to think this isn’t working. If this gets larger, they’re grateful for they’re having a relationship.

1:10:08 But it oscillates back and forth. The same with children. And children feel the same way towards their parents, are liking and disliking their parents and gyrating around their parents,

1:10:16 Brian Rose: Right? It’s just

1:10:16 John Demartini: And when they’re teenagers, you kind of wonder maybe it’s wise for them to go to go to go.

1:10:22 Brian Rose: But it’s such like a politically uncorrect thing to say that, you know, you just said it’s a politically incorrect. It’s a religiously uncorrect thing.

1:10:28 Yeah.

1:10:28 John Demartini: But that’s as Machiavelli addressed in his time in The Prince, he said, “Are you going to live the truth of life? Are you going to be caught in the paradigms that are being indoctrinated?”

1:10:38 Brian Rose: And I think in this specific example where there was this woman who had overdosed, I think you went to the parents and said, you know, what were some of the episodes that happened when she would show up on drugs and these kinds of things, and they were like, “Oh, they were horrible.” And I think you just tried to get them to show that it wasn’t all this saint that had left us, but it was

1:10:56 John Demartini: Can I share a story, a good one?

1:10:57 Please.

1:10:57 I’m in, um, maybe I better not say I’m in Canada. I’ll just say that. Not the city. And, um, a lady, I get called. I did the Breakthrough Experience and I had a consult uh from 8 to 9, 9 to 10, 10 to 11.

1:11:13 And then I had another lady that said, “I don’t care if it’s 11:00 at night. If you will do it, I’ll do it.” I said, “Well, I leave at 4 in the morning to go on a flight. I got to leave at 6:00. So I’ll meet you at 11:00.

1:11:22 I’ll go to midnight.” Well, I didn’t know what it was, but she came and sometimes I do consults throughout the night. And, uh, her son, her 16-year-old son, hung himself in a bathroom during a sexual act with his girlfriend. They kind of do a choke thing. I can’t say I’ve ever been interested in choking myself to have sex, but they were trying this maneuver.

1:11:45 Well, he choked and he died. The girl freaked out. She called, you know, 911 and got the police there and everything else. And, you know, the mother comes home and freaking out. Son’s dead.

1:11:58 So when she comes to actually dissolve the grief, I’m noticing that she’s got an unconscious motive to keep that grief. I can tell within a short period of time that there’s a motive to keep the grief here, even though she’s claiming she wants to get rid of it. There’s a part of it that’s keeping it. So I said, “There’s some motive. You’re getting some sort of secondary gain and benefits out of keeping this grief here.

1:12:18 What’s what’s going on here?” So after some more probing, we found out that she came from a low socioeconomics. She happened to meet this guy who came from the top, some of the wealthiest family in Canada. She meets this guy. They start dating.

1:12:36 She was attractive but comes from low social economics. He liked her. They were dating. She thinks, “I could get out of my situation.” So, she had a part that really cared and another part that saw opportunity.

1:12:51 And it’s a fine line between the narcissistic and altruistic components of our nature. So she got pregnant and the parents felt that she was way beneath the standard of the family and demanded the son to demand that she gets an abortion and that they’ll pay for it and give her some money to go away. Get the son away from this riffraff, as their parents were. And, uh, so now she’s in a situation where as long as she’s grieving, the parents aren’t going to get rid of her, cuz the parents said that you shouldn’t be with this lady.

1:13:30 And now that the baby’s, the 16-year-old’s dead, um, get out of this relationship while you can, which is interesting. So she was afraid of the family wanting her out of the equation now because the kid was her trump card.

1:13:45 Okay. M

1:13:46 So as long as she’s grieving, they’re not going to do it. But if she shows that she’s no longer grieving, then she’s running a risk. So we had to sit down and think about how, what’s the negotiation to walk away, because she really hated the family. She did not want to be in that relationship. The, with the man she did, but not with the family, because the family’s pressure was incredible.

1:14:06 Then she told me the son was getting in trouble, doing drugs, was having wild parties. The police were watching him. She was coming home and sometimes having sleepless nights, not knowing what he’s going to do as a 16-year-old, which is not uncommon for a 16-year-old. Uh, she was just waiting to know when he’s going to get called from the police or when they’re going to raid the house or these kind of things. And she was having a part of her that goes, “I don’t want to have to deal with this, but I feel trapped in my marriage.

1:14:31 I feel trapped in this relationship, but it’s my own doing. I use the trump card to get the deal. I’m getting the deal, but here’s the pain that comes with the pleasure. I thought I was going to get more pleasure than pain, but it turned out to be pain and pleasure.” Welcome to life.

1:14:46 So, we had to sit down and negotiate and come up with a strategy of what would be a fair exchange for her to move out of the relationship with this man. And we came up with an offer, and they paid her the offer and she went on her business and didn’t have grief after that. But she was using grief as a strategy. And some people think, well, that’s cruel and that’s mean and everything else. No, it’s human behavior.

1:15:08 Right. And human beings have both kind and cruel and nice and mean and positive and negative and want and not want, of moments of, they always love their child deep inside. But the personas that we wear when we’re frustrated, sometimes we have a side we go, “Oh, go play in the traffic. You know, I just, you know, I need a break.” So we have these two emotions, and sometimes when we’re under elation and infatuation we have grief over them.

1:15:35 But if we’re resentful we have the opposite. When people are really, really ashamed, feeling resentful, feeling down, feeling depressed, they don’t have a fear of death. They think about it. When they’re elated and excited and everything else, they have a fear of death. When they’re down and depressed and shamed, they have a fear of life continuing.

1:15:54 So, everybody has a fear of life and a fear of death potential sitting there depending on where they are on the polarities in their awareness. If they’re subjectively biased towards positive, they have a fear of death. If they have subjectively bias towards negative, they have a fear of life continuing and they think about it. And I’ve met people that were suicidal and contemplating their thing because life wasn’t working for them and they wanted it out.

1:16:15 They had been indoctrinated by religion or some other indoctrination that there’s a better deal in the afterlife, eschatologically. But we don’t know what that is. It’s just belief system. So if you buy into that belief system, you’ll kill yourself. Like a jihad killing of a Muslim.

1:16:30 “I’ll kill myself, and if I kill three different incarnations, I’m going to get 72 virgins.” If they believe there’s a better deal out there, they’ll die for their cause. It’s a belief system. And so, they don’t have grief. The people go and they reward them.

1:16:43 They go, “Hey, he died for his cause.”

1:16:46 Right. Right.

1:16:46 So, there’s a whole spectrum of potential perceptions and feelings associated with life and death. And I’m not going to label one good and the other bad, because that traps people. I’m going to say that there are two aspects of our nature and we are dying all our life. We have cells dying every day in our life by apoptosis and we’re living every single day, and life and death have to have a balance, and there’s a balance of apoptosis and mitosis in our body.

1:17:15 So we’re living and dying every single day. So to label one good and the other bad is to misunderstand nature. And if we look very carefully, look at nature. When a predator goes after a prey, the prey may die, but the offspring of the predator lives. So, is that death or life?

1:17:32 And if they get away, the prey gets away and the predator starves and they die and this lives. Which one’s good or bad? Which one? We get trapped in those moral structures. And, uh, I can’t give it an answer.

1:17:46 No one can. We buy into an absolute moralist view and we get stuck because we don’t think about the situational ethics and the relativis relativism that’s associated with it. So we just buy into that and we want to be right and memorize that, and this is what’s good and evil, and we get trapped in that, and the amygdala does that. The executive center is more thoughtful and more aware and understands all the variations and situational ethics that’s there.

1:18:13 Brian Rose: Something you’ve also talked about is if you lose that child or if you lose that parent, that you’ve gotten people to look at their lives and realize that other people took on the parent role or you took on the parent role of other children in your life, and you work with them until they see it and they’re like, “Wow, uh, I never saw all of these things.” Can you just speak on that, cuz it

1:18:35 John Demartini: Yeah, I just got to do it. In Japan, I just worked with a lady that, uh, she believed her mom was always happy, always kind, always sweet, always positive, anything else, and was under uh four years of prolonged grief syndrome, was not able to work, lost her job, um, mourning, two hours a day crying and under mother’s grave, and was basically non-functional.

1:18:56 Okay.

1:18:56 So, they brought that in as a case for me to dissolve in front of the Breakthrough Experience.

1:19:00 Brian Rose: And earlier, you said no one should grieve more than 3 hours.

1:19:03 John Demartini: Well, I’ve never seen it take more than 3 hours, right? Hers was about 2 hours and 40 minutes. Hers was a tough case primarily because I had to go through a translator to go back and forth, back and forth,

1:19:14 Okay, through the translation. If I just talked to her in English, it would have been probably 2 hours and 10 minutes or something.

1:19:19 Brian Rose: Okay, so she had four years. She had been

1:19:21 John Demartini: Four years running a story about her mother being all one-sided.

1:19:24 Okay.

1:19:25 There is no such thing as a person all one-sided. If I came to you and I said, “You’re always positive, never negative.” No. Always nice, never mean. No.

1:19:35 Always peaceful, never wrathful. No. Always giving, never taking. No. You’re a human being.

1:19:40 Sometimes you give, sometimes you take. Sometimes you’re nice, sometimes you’re mean. Sometimes you’re kind, sometimes you’re cruel. We are both. And when we embrace both and honor both, we can love ourselves.

1:19:50 Otherwise, we’re going to try to get rid of half of our life and get rid of half of other people and get rid of half of society. Never going to work. That’s the fantasy of the amygdala that people are trapped in and the opium of the masses that are sold to them. But the reality is that sometimes you’re nice, sometimes you’re mean, sometimes you’re kind, sometimes you’re cruel. So, I had to go in there and go to a moment where she did not see a smile on her mom’s face.

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1:21:12 John Demartini: And I stacked those up and stacked those up and stacked those up until she popped the idea that her mom’s always happy and smiling. And she goes, “Hm, I blocked that out.” The amygdala, in order to capture prey, creates a false positive because a false positive allows you to sustain yourself. If you’re out there in the wild and you see some animal in the jungle, whatever, a pattern, it’s better to err on a false positive and assume that it is there than to assume it’s not.

1:21:42 Or otherwise, you miss out on eating, or if it’s predator, you get eaten. So we automatically distort things with false positives and exaggerate and dramatize things in order to get our adrenaline going to capture the prey and avoid the predator. So she had created a fantasy about who her mom was, right? And dramatized that and created her own nemesis, her own grief. So I just made her go in to ask, I didn’t make her make anything up.

1:22:06 I didn’t ask for anything that wasn’t true. I just made her conscious of what she was unconscious of. Go to a moment where and when you perceive your mom frowning, not smiling. And we started stacking them up. And when she says it’s always that way, it’s infinity over one.

1:22:24 So when I show her this, it’s now infinity over two, infinity over three, infinity over there. And all of a sudden, her mind goes from always to, “Oh, there’s just as many frowns as there are smiles in this woman,” when we get to the truth. And when I got stacked up there, I went, “Now, let’s go to the thing that you said she was nice. Let’s go to a moment when she was challenged. You did things that challenge her values, and she played out of the mean role to you.”

1:22:51 And we did the same thing. And when she did that, I said, “Right now, the grief is already going down, isn’t it?” She goes, “Yes, I’m not feeling so in such an intrusive thought about it.” I said, “Now, uh, let’s go and go to a moment when she’s actually smiling.” Great.

1:23:08 What’s the downside of that? She says, “Well, how can it be a downside? They’re happy. They’re smiling. What’s the downside of that?”

1:23:15 And she goes, “I’m having to do what she wants me to do each time that’s happening. She’s manipulating me with her smile.” And she goes, “And then I’m under pressure. And then I’m late. I’m not interacting with my friends.

1:23:31 I’m having to do the cooking. I’m now feeling like I’ve got to help her financially.” And she started thinking some of the downside that she was unaware of, and we did it. And I’m not trying to ask her to do something that’s not there. I’m just, she pushed under the rug and created a fantasy and then having grief.

1:23:50 So I said, “What are the downsides?” And when the downsides equal the benefits, the up and downsides were balanced. She had a tear, and a tear came, and all of a sudden she realized, “I really created a fantasy about my mom that’s not even the whole story.” And I said, “Exactly. You are, you created a fantasy.

1:24:08 Your mom is always up and always happy and always smiling and this and that. And you never stopped and looked at where she had the option. You never stopped and looked at what were the downsides of that. And I didn’t ask you to make anything up. I don’t want you to force yourself to do.

1:24:19 I just want you to look and you can find it.” And when you do, all of a sudden, she goes, “Now that I think about it, I put my life on hold because of those things. I have never gotten married. I don’t have any kids. My mom has been my child because of this infatuation.

1:24:44 I’ve been mothering my mom. I’ve stopped my career. I’ve stopped my relationship dynamics. And now because of this loss, I’ve stopped my, I’m having to depend on other people.” And then she stopped and just realized something.

1:24:59 And then she realized this had nothing to do with her mom. This has everything to do with her perception of her mom. Her mom is a loving individual that has both sides. She fabricated this one side and then minimized herself and then sacrificed altruistically for this mother and then didn’t, was not aware of it, and then grieved over the loss. So I went in there and I balanced the equation.

1:25:20 I found out who showed up in her life when her mom passed, who started giving her the smile. And we had 37 people that showed up in her life in order to balance that. 37 it took. That’s a way more than normal.

1:25:32 Wow.

1:25:32 37 people showed up. Each one of the traits we found who came into her life to play that role, because nothing’s missing. It just changes form. The window shuts, the door opens.

1:25:42 When she saw all the people that came on, I then asked what’s the benefit of them doing it and what was the drawback when your mom did it, until they’re both neither positive or negative. At the end, I said, as she’s having tears of gratitude and feeling the presence of her mom, I said, “What’s happening with the grief?” And she goes, “I feel the presence of my mom.” “Close your eyes. See your mom.”

1:26:05 “What do you want to tell her?” “Thank you for being in my life and what you’ve taught me. You’ve been a lesson in my life and I now set you free. I love you.” And she just, and that was it.

1:26:16 And all that grief was gone. Four plus years of grief, gone.

1:26:21 Brian Rose: Wow. And that took 2 hours and 40 minutes.

1:26:23 Are people watching you do this in the Breakthrough?

1:26:26 John Demartini: The whole room. There are 92 people.

1:26:27 Brian Rose: And they’ll watch you for two and a half hours, 40 minutes. Wow.

1:26:31 John Demartini: Sometimes I do it live, and this one I did live. Sometimes I make everybody go find out what they’re grieving the loss of, identify what form it’s in, and do it themselves so they get to experience it.

1:26:41 Brian Rose: Okay. Wow. And I guess other people are watching this and having their own experiences and seeing parallels in their life and are learning from your

1:26:49 John Demartini: Yeah. Yeah, we do. We sometimes do it live in front of big audiences, put them up on stage.

1:26:55 Brian Rose: What would I get from the Breakthrough Experience? You know, I’m curious.

1:26:59 John Demartini: Uh, a deeper appreciation on the magnificence of your life.

1:27:05 Interesting.

1:27:05 As it is, not how you think it should be.

1:27:10 Brian Rose: Is that a standard thing or is that custom-made for me?

1:27:13 John Demartini: No, that’s standard.

1:27:15 Okay.

1:27:15 And a framework of information and principles that shatter the myths that were taught in most cases. Paul Dirac, the Nobel Prize winner, said, “It’s not that we don’t know so much, we know so much that isn’t so, we’re taught what isn’t.” So, look at all the misinformation that’s out there.

1:27:36 Yeah.

1:27:36 It’s massive.

1:27:38 Brian Rose: Most of it. Even AI is coming from the massive misinformation data.

1:27:44 John Demartini: Yeah. So we don’t even, with AI, we can only approximate an objective understanding. So having all of a sudden a framework of seeing things and having your eyes open to see both sides of an event. Wilhelm Wundt said there’s a simultaneous contrast, and when you see both sides simultaneously you’re liberated because it’s neither positive or negative. At the level of the essence of the soul in ontology it’s neither positive or negative.

1:28:12 It’s just unconditional love. This is what Empedocles was talking about, 600 BC, at the level of the senses in the phenomenological world of the senses, it is either positive or negative and we’re in the world of judgment and strife,

1:28:25 Right, he says. Humans can live in love or strife. They integrate the elements, as Empedocles said, and they have love. If they disintegrate the elements and separate the elements they have strife. And the fire and water elements that Empedocles used was the infatuation, resentment.

1:28:44 That’s the same mechanism that was stated back in the time, and these guys were post-Pythagorean insights on that. Real wholeness was the integration and balance of opposites, unity of opposites, that Heraclitus described. That’s one of the most profound principles, and Paul Dirac and his principles of quantum mechanics in 1947 addressed Heraclitus’s teachings and created particle and antiparticles, um, in physics, which we have today. All of our quantum entanglement comes from his work, and, um, this idea of pairs of opposites, and so that he used Heraclitus’ insights for discovering the symmetry then sitting in the pairs of opposites and particle antiparticle theory, and the quantum mechanical things of Schrodinger was a byproduct of that, and also Cardano’s work on probability statistics, they merge all that, and that he was aware of those probabilities, of those polarities in our cognition.

1:29:40 So we go back and we’re standing on the shoulders of giants through the ages and we’re now right here in today’s world and this same law applies. And so all I’m doing is asking questions to make people aware of both sides of life simultaneously with an accountability structure so they can see the magnificence of what was there instead of the biased interpretations that cause the emotional vicissitudes that cause disorder and aging.

1:30:06 Brian Rose: So I would see the magnificence of my life and I would also see the order that’s sitting in the world around you.

1:30:12 The order that’s sitting in the world that I can’t

1:30:14 John Demartini: Yeah. There’s a hidden order that people

1:30:15 Brian Rose: That I can’t see right now.

1:30:16 John Demartini: Yeah. Leibniz, in his Discourse on Metaphysics, the very first paragraph, he said no human being can improve upon the perfection that already is. And Stephen Wolfram, the mathematician, said that, uh, the reason why we don’t see the order is because we have computational boundaries. We can’t compute the probabilities of the variables to see the hidden order. And so we judge things entropically as disorder and we age.

1:30:43 Aging is nothing more than the accumulation of incomplete awarenesses through time.

1:30:48 Brian Rose: Incomplete awarenesses.

1:30:48 Yeah.

1:30:49 Okay. So, we’re all choosing to age.

1:30:54 John Demartini: We’re choosing to age because we’re subordinating to what isn’t and not honoring what is.

1:31:00 Okay. Okay.

1:31:01 Uh, and in the Gita they talked about omats as it is, and that the self-actualized individual is the one that actually awakens their awareness to the point where they’re not asleep, they’re not unconscious, they’re seeing both sides simultaneously. So Wilhelm Wundt calls it simultaneous contrast, called it the synthesis of the propositions, Heraclitus called it the unity of opposites, Christianity called it the logos. They’ve all had different names for the same thing, and all I’ve done is taken and synthesized philosophers and theologians and scientists and psychologists and physicists and woven it together, and chemists, and put those together into some model that allows people to appreciate the magnificence of their life.

1:31:42 Brian Rose: Okay. So this is something humans observed for a long time.

1:31:46 John Demartini: This has been handed down through the ages, but the truth has never been in the hands of the masses. It’s only in the hearts of the masters.

1:31:52 Right. Okay.

1:31:52 You have to decide whether you want to be a master of your destiny or a victim of your history. The masses have mass, uh, they have space, time, mass, and charge. They’re in a conditional state of awareness and they’re reacting to misinterpretations and they’re automatons reacting to misinterpretations, living in evoked stimuli in their brain and run from the external world, and they’re dissociating by blaming and giving credit, like the lady who was in with the pig, instead of integrating themselves and realizing that this is a self-reflective universe.

1:32:23 Brian Rose: Powerful. Powerful. Question, a little bit, maybe not about wealth but maybe it is, and maybe even business. You said something that’s really been resonating with me where you said that someone cannot go in a state where they are taking more from others than is correct, or they can also not be in this altruistic state where they are giving too much. Both cannot be sustainable.

1:32:49 And this is fascinating, because people create narratives in their lives and in their brains that the billionaires are stealing from us over and over again for 20 years, or this person, all they do is give. Mother Teresa just gave, gave, gave, and she never asked for a single thing.

1:33:03 John Demartini: Well, I could tell you another story about Mother Teresa.

1:33:04 Brian Rose: Yeah, I know there’s a few people out there that have written books about her, or maybe you knew her as well.

1:33:07 John Demartini: Well, I had the opportunity to work with a lady, two ladies that were with her three and six months a year, and they brought videos of what they actually did. It’s really quite interesting.

1:33:16 Brian Rose: I assume. So talk to me about these extremes, because most people live in one or the other. You know, this is a completely benevolent person and these people are just always taking and that’s right. Okay.

1:33:26 John Demartini: There’s no hero. There’s no villain.

1:33:27 Brian Rose: Neither one is sustainable is what you’re saying. As a human, it can’t be.

1:33:31 John Demartini: I mean, look at all the heroes that have fallen in the last decade, two, two decades. You know, Oscarus and Lance Armstrong and Bill Cosby and people that we thought were I don’t, I tell people do not be fooled by facades. Nietzsche warned against this. Machiavelli warned against this. Hegel warned against this.

1:33:49 They’ve all said that Plato tried to warn.

1:33:51 Brian Rose: Yeah, we continue to buy.

1:33:52 John Demartini: They just keep running the story because the amygdala uses false positives and makes heroes or villains.

1:33:57 Right.

1:33:57 That’s the amygdala. Anytime you see a person that you think an individual

1:34:03 That’s a persona, not a true individual. Individual means an undivided being. A persona is a mask you wear. And you live that mask out and you think, “Oh my god.” And they’ll fool you.

1:34:13 And but how many people been fooled by people they thought they were one side and then they found out the other side. I have a fun story. I was, uh, speaking in India and there’s about 3,700 people there and, uh, on the second day I was getting ready to speak again and the guy that was promoting this asked me to come and have breakfast with him before they went off to the walk across to the convention center. So the night before he gave me a book from one of his gurus.

1:34:39 So he had a guru that he really looked up to, and in India you see a lot of this, you see people, you know, honoring gurus, and he gave me this book and I speedread, you know, so I scan that book that night. Most of it was Vedantic teachings that I had studied from other writings from many others, and, um, but it was well written, it was clean Vedantic teachings. So I had nothing to say other than, um, his book was well written and it was classical Vedantic teachings and great.

1:35:11 He says, “Well, but here’s the real deal. He’s all, he’s really enlightened.” And then, you know, he exaggerates it. And I, um, I go to meet him for breakfast. I get there five minutes before he does.

1:35:23 And on the newspaper, front page of the newspapers, plural, was his guru. Scandal, sex issues, right? Rape, sex with younger girls, tax evasion. They nailed the guy. So I pulled up a couple of those newspapers.

1:35:42 We go to the thing and I unfolded them and I said, “Is this the guy you were giving me the book of last night?” And he just went shocked. He couldn’t even speak because he had given himself permission to think this guy was the positive without the negative. I tell people, don’t be fooled by facades. And when people come up to me and they think I’m special or I’m more aware or whatever, I’ll fart on them.

1:36:04 I’ll do something to get that down because that’s a that’s an umbilical cord looking for a place to plug into. I don’t want that. It’s a burden and they’ll eventually flip on you and go the other direction.

1:36:15 Brian Rose: Right. Right.

1:36:15 So, is that a response so you don’t have to be present with yourself? Is part of that putting someone on a pedestal? I mean, you described it.

1:36:21 John Demartini: Well, you minimize anytime you put somebody on a pedestal, you’re going to minimize yourself. Okay. And then you’re going to inject their values. You’re going to try to live in their values. Then you’re going to beat yourself up because “I can’t live up to them.

1:36:29 They’re enlightened. I’m not. What’s wrong with me?” And then you sacrifice altruistically to give to them, and they’ll clean up. They’ll clean up.

1:36:37 I know a guru that’s a millionaire. He cleans up. And, uh, and people are falling for it. They fall for the illusion that this person’s special. And I try to teach people that whatever you see in others, you have inside you, but you’re too humble to admit it.

1:36:53 Let’s go find it. And I’ve had people actually do that. I had 750 Indians on a Breakthrough. 755 on a Breakthrough. And I asked them to take the people you admire most.

1:37:03 And probably a third of them were their gurus. And I said, “Now go find out what you admire most and let’s own it 100% until it’s equal.” And it took about quite a few hours.

1:37:13 Yeah.

1:37:13 But when they did, they took the guy off the pedestal and re-empowered themselves. I call it owning the traits of the greats, because if you put people on pedestals, you’ll put yourself in a pit. And if you put people in a pit, you’ll put yourself in a pedestal. And both pedestal and pits are not you. You’re neither of those.

1:37:28 You’re a synthesis, an undivided being, not a polarized individual. Okay?

1:37:33 The real you is magnificent. And there’s a thing called a moral licensing effect. A moral licensing effect says anytime you do something you’re proud of, you give yourself permission to do something you’re ashamed of. Anytime you do something you’re ashamed of, you give yourself permission to do something you’re proud of. So if you go out and really work out and get your shape and abs and and thing, you go out and eat more chocolate, eat more food, and pig out.

1:37:54 And then you go out and pig out. Then you go, “Oh, I better go work out tomorrow.” So you get in this yo-yo cycle of the moral licensing effect in order to homeostate you back into your authentic self. But you as a proud person is not you. That’s a facade, a persona, an impostor temporarily that you’re wearing that is going to be humbled and de-purposed, brought back down into authenticity.

1:38:16 And your spouse, their job when you’re cocky is to bring you back down. And if you’re down, their job is to lift you up. The purpose of marriage is not happiness. The purpose of marriage is authenticity. To teach people how to own the parts they’ve been disowning, and they marry their disowned parts to make them face it.

1:38:33 Brian Rose: Okay. What did you do with the guy’s guru? How did that all process?

1:38:36 John Demartini: Well, it took him more than that day to process that. I didn’t get to work with him that day. I was speaking,

1:38:43 Right?

1:38:43 But that next night, I got to work with him some after we had dinner.

1:38:48 Okay.

1:38:49 And he finished his facade and he kept quiet about his guru. He didn’t bring it up to anybody. And he got a chance at lunch to read some of the articles and he just realized how gullible he was, and he says, “Well, who am I to believe right now?” I said, “Your true self, the sought guru, is you. You’re the guru.

1:39:08 You are the guru inside. Don’t blame somebody or give credit to somebody outside, because the second you make them enlightened, you know, I try to shatter this idea of enlightenment. We live on a little planet, okay, it’s around, uh, roughly 24,000 miles around, 8,000 miles in diameter. It’s spinning and it takes about a day to go around, right? About a thousand miles an hour.

1:39:32 And, um, we’re 93, astronomical unit, 93 million miles away from the sun. So if we’re sitting on the sun and looking, we can’t even see the Earth. So if there’s a guy on there that’s an enlightened says, “I’m enlightened. I am enlightened. I am enlightened.”

1:39:48 To the sun, it’s like it’s not even there. Poof. It’s dust. Now, from the sun, we’re 26 to 27,000 light years away. 186,000 miles a second times 86,400 seconds a day times 365 days times 26,000.

1:40:06 That’s how far that’s away. Okay. Now, from the center of the Milky Way looking at our sun, it’s non-discernible because of the gas and dust. And we can’t see the planet. So, we’re enlightened relative to what?

1:40:18 London Real promo: Investment Club. expectations, without question.

1:41:06 John Demartini: Relative to the infinite cosmos, it’s, we’re an infinitesimal in our awareness relative to the Planck’s dimension, 1* 10 33rd centimeters. We’re like a god. So we’re right at the border between an infinitesimal and an infinite, and we, there one is to exaggerate us and one is to minimize us to keep us authentic. So we’re sitting in the middle of the infinite micro and infinite macro to keep us authentic, to humble us and to aggrandize us. And so when somebody grandizes themselves and thinks they’re all enlightened, they haven’t learned what Socrates tried to warn.

1:41:40 He says whatever you know, it’s infinitesimal compared to what’s unknown. And whatever’s unknown is always greater than what’s known. So it’s a relative term, a relative awareness relative to the areas that I’m focused on. I’m relatively aware in an area of human behavior. I’m an idiot when it comes to technology and cars and sports.

1:42:05 Things that are lower in my values, I’m an idiot. Things that are high in my values, I’m relatively aware. And that’s why Einstein said, “Live with holy curiosity. Just keep growing and keep learning.”

1:42:14 Brian Rose: Okay. Powerful. Now I’d ask you about wealth and abundance. How do you talk to people about that in their life and, you know, trying to find that abundance? Obviously wealth is all part of it, right?

1:42:25 Where the physicality is all related to the way you look at the world and polarize it. What do you teach people?

1:42:31 John Demartini: There’s nothing missing. Everybody’s got genuine wealth.

1:42:34 Brian Rose: Right. I’ve heard you talk about this.

1:42:36 John Demartini: But it’s in the form that matches their values currently. So if they have a high value on their children, when they get money, it will go and move into the children. Take care of the children’s clothes, health, education, it’ll go to the children. If you have a high value on vacations, it’ll go to vacation. You have a high value on education, it’ll go to education.

1:42:55 If you have a high value on wealth building, financial wealth building, it’ll go into assets, physical financial assets.

1:43:02 But if you don’t have a value on wealth building, it’s not going to go into financial assets.

1:43:07 Brian Rose: Right. You’ve also looked at people and said, “You’re a billionaire.” And they’ll be like, “Dr. John, I got zero in my bank account.” And you’re like, “Yeah, you don’t see the value.”

1:43:15 You don’t see where it is, right?

1:43:16 John Demartini: I store some of my wealth in intellectual property.

1:43:20 A lot of it.

1:43:20 I store some of it in social connections. I’ve met 9,000 celebrities and stuff around the world. I’ve got social connections. Uh, some of it is in my vitality, my energy levels, right? For 71.

1:43:31 I have some of it that’s in my spiritual awareness. It’s diversified through all those areas. But I also have financial independence because I realized at 27 that if I don’t value wealth, it’s going to keep passing through my hands to people who value it more. So that’s the money automatically circulates through the economy from those who value it least to those who value it most. So it automatically goes out of the hands.

1:43:52 If you have a value on education, you’ll pay somebody for that education. That person you give it to may have a value on real estate and they’ll buy real estate with it. That person, when you buy the real estate, that person may buy it on going on yachts and trips, and then so they won’t have any assets, they’ll have trips, and then the person that buys gets the money from the yacht sells it. He wants to build a billionaire, so he buys accumulating assets, so it automatically goes right through the economy from those who value it little, and they value other things, consumable objects or experiences or children, and the one that actually values financial wealth is the one that ends up with the assets.

1:44:30 Brian Rose: That’s fascinating. So if you see people that are the billionaires, they’re just the ones that value it more.

1:44:35 John Demartini: Well, I’ve done value determinations on a lot of billionaires and a lot of poverish people, and if you do not have financial asset accumulation in your top four values, financial independence, it’s not going to occur.

1:44:47 Just won’t happen.

1:44:48 Won’t happen.

1:44:48 Brian Rose: And if you’re not taught that, then you won’t even be aware of that.

1:44:51 John Demartini: And it just passes through you. And that’s what

1:44:53 Brian Rose: And you’ll be caught by the next get-rich game system that sells on the market to try to get you rich overnight. There was somebody that put out a tweet the other day because they’re talking about wealth taxes and Mamdani in New York City and all this stuff, and they said if we took all the wealth in the world and equally distributed to all the people, in two years’ time it would be back in the same people’s hearts.

1:45:13 John Demartini: They did that in Tibet.

1:45:14 Really?

1:45:14 They did it three times in Tibet.

1:45:15 Okay.

1:45:15 They dispersed all the wealth that was in Tibet and they gave it to everybody and it was right back in the hands of the people.

1:45:21 Exactly what you’re saying.

1:45:22 Same thing, because the hierarchy of your values dictates your financial destiny, and whoever has the highest value on asset accumulation, financial asset accumulation, is going to end up winning.

1:45:31 Brian Rose: And at 27, you realized that that was going to be important for you to be empowered to do what you needed to do and you wanted to do.

1:45:37 John Demartini: Well, I wanted to empower all areas of my life. I wanted to create original ideas that serve human beings. Uh, create ingenious ideas that could serve people. I wanted to create a global business. I wanted to create financial independence.

1:45:48 I wanted to have a global family, which is one of the reasons I live on my ship that travels the world. I want to have social influence. I want to have a vital body and I want to be inspired by something. I didn’t want to create a religion. There’s too many of those.

1:46:00 I want to create something inspired, so people from any faith or whatever can be a part of it. So that’s what I set out to do and that’s what I’ve gotten to do.

1:46:07 Brian Rose: Because you put those in your values.

1:46:08 John Demartini: They were in my values since age 18.

1:46:09 Brian Rose: And you assigned them.

1:46:10 John Demartini: Yeah. But the financial one, I lived in part of an illusion from 18, really 17, to 27, I lived in an illusion. I read Think and Grow Rich. I read The Richest Man in Babylon. I read Prosperity by Charles Fillmore.

1:46:25 Edwin Gaines on Prosperity and Tithing. I read all these kind of esoteric books. But I didn’t get grounded until somebody walked into my office and grounded me with nine questions. I don’t know if I ever covered those here.

1:46:37 Brian Rose: No.

1:46:37 John Demartini: Should I do those?

1:46:38 Brian Rose: Please.

1:46:38 John Demartini: Okay. This is a good one. Okay.

1:46:40 Brian Rose: I can’t wait.

1:46:42 John Demartini: So, I, um, I just opened up my practice two weeks, maybe. No, not even that. Just a week and a half, 10 days, and a guy walks in to my office, saw a doctor’s office, walked in and said, “May I speak to the doctor?” And I had a gap between some patients. And so, I thought, “When they come to make the sale, I’ll make the sale.

1:47:06 I’m going to turn him into a patient.” I’ll start talking to this guy. He comes in and he says, “I’m Jim McKinley.” Um, I said, “I’m Dr. Demartini.” He says, “I do have a question for you.

1:47:18 I’m a financial planner and I was walking in the area and I saw your office and I just thought maybe just that I could be of service to you. Uh, do you intend to be financially independent?” And of course, my ego said, “Of course.” He said, “Um, do you mind if I ask you questions to find out if that’s true or not?”

1:47:40 Brian Rose: That’s a rough one.

1:47:41 Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

1:47:42 John Demartini: And I said, “Uh, this guy’s good.”

1:47:43 Well, what kind of questions? He said, “Well, there’s nine questions that I ask, and when somebody can answer them, I know that they’re potentially could be financially independent. If they can’t answer them, at least at this stage, they’re not going to be.” And now I’m kind of anxious and excited to know what the questions are. If you picture the two personas I had, the self-righteous persona, I want to know what it is.

1:48:08 The self-rous persona, I don’t want to be humiliated by not knowing. I had both of them. So, what’s the first question? He says, “Right now, what is your total assets that you have in your possession?” And I was so naive, I didn’t even know what a really asset was at the time.

1:48:27 I said, “What do you mean by an asset?” That’s how I would dodge the issue. And he said, he said, “Well, things like money that you have in a certificate of deposit or money market account or stock equity or equity in a house, this kind of thing.” I went, “Okay.” And I had none.

1:48:46 Zero. I had books, thousands of books that I could probably get 10 cents on a dollar if I sold them. That was it. I didn’t have anything. I had no assets, no savings.

1:48:56 I just got out of school. I just opened up a practice, got a loan and another loan, right? And I, so I said, “Well, it’s negative. I don’t have any assets.” “Great.

1:49:08 Then let’s put it down.” I said, he asked me the next question. Number two, “What is your total liabilities?” And I knew that because I knew what my debt was. I said 70 for this loan and 20 for this loan and the car loan and, you know, this, I listed them all out.

1:49:27 So I was a net $100,000. This is 1982. So that’d be like 4500 now equivalent with inflation. So I said, “Okay, I’m a net negative.” He said, “Great.

1:49:37 Number three, what is your total net worth right now? Assets minus liabilities.” Well, there’s no assets. There’s liabilities. So, it’s the same number.

1:49:49 He says, “If you don’t know where you are, you don’t know where you’re going. How you going to get there? How you going to get somewhere you don’t even know where you’re going? I need to know where you are right now. We now know where you are.”

1:50:02 And most people are afraid of actually facing where they are. They don’t want to know where they are because it’s painful.

1:50:06 Yeah.

1:50:06 They don’t want to acknowledge their debt. And they live in a fantasy, “Someday I’ll get there.” And yet their values will never lead them there. So, he asked the fourth question. He said, “What do you define as the passive income annually that you’re going to call financial independence?”

1:50:28 And I didn’t know any better. I had made $100,000 teaching in a year prior to that. I was single. I had an apartment. I didn’t have a whole lot of debts.

1:50:38 I mean, a lot of, I had debts, but I didn’t have a whole lot of responsibilities. I wasn’t married. Didn’t have kids. So, I thought in 1982 that if I could have a six-digit figure, a $100,000 or more per year, I could do pretty good. That would be like half a million maybe now.

1:50:55 Yeah.

1:50:55 If I had a half a million a year, I could live on that.

1:50:59 So, I put $100,000. He said, “Okay, if you don’t know what you want, you don’t know where you’re going. You don’t know where you’re starting. You don’t know how to. If I got an Uber right now, I don’t know where I am.

1:51:12 I don’t know where I’m going.” The Uber says, “I can’t help you. You can’t help yourself until you get to be grounded.” Because I was living as someday I’ll be enough where I don’t worry about money. That’s a lot of people live in La La Land.

1:51:26 So, I basically said, “All right, $100,000.” Number five question. “What is the current investment yield and interest rate you believe you can earn with your knowledge of investing?” Which was zero. I said, “Uh, what would be, I don’t know.

1:51:43 I haven’t done investing. What would be a a reasonable return?” He said, “You could probably get 8%. That’s a probably reasonable term with no background, but investing in the S&P 500 or whatever, you could get an 8% return.” I said, “Okay, then we’ll make it 8%.”

1:51:59 “Great. Put 8%. Your next question, that’s number six.” Yeah. “Uh, what inflation rate are you going to be facing during the duration of your life on average?”

1:52:10 I said, “I have no idea.” He said, “Well, right now it’s high, but it will average around 3 to 3.1 over the long haul, 100 years.” I said, “Well, let’s put three in there.” “Great. Okay.

1:52:22 Now, we’ve got four, five, six. Right. Next question. What is the total net worth that you require earning you 8% minus 3% on inflation to give you $100,000 a year?” And I thought, “Okay, 8% minus 3% is 5%.

1:52:40 5% into 100% is 20. Multiply 100,000 times 20. I need $2 million today. Give me 8% minus 3% to give me $100,000 a year.” He said, “Great.

1:52:52 You figured it out.” I said, “Okay, so I need $2 million.” “Yep. Now, the next question, number eight, is, what’s the shortfall between your current net worth and that desired net worth?” I said, “Well, I’m a hundred thousand in debt, so I need $2,100,000 by tomorrow to give me financial independence.”

1:53:14 And then I went, “Okay.” He said, “Great. Ninth question. What’s your strategy? How do you intend to have $2,100,000 by tomorrow?”

1:53:28 And I just went blank and I started getting a throbbing headache. My stomach went into a knot. I had cramps. Uh, my eye got red. Um, I started having a twitch.

1:53:40 I had a stressed response because I saw no possible way in my level of understanding at that time to allow me to do that. I couldn’t see light at the end of the tunnel and I was just sitting there going, and now I’m confronted by the fantasy that I say that I’m going to be financially independent, but I got confronted by the reality, now grounded me, and I’m going, “I don’t see a way.” So am I having to give up that idea? Am I having to come up with a new strategy?

1:54:08 How am I going to do this? I couldn’t see it at the time. At my level of awareness I couldn’t see it. So he just stated, “So what’s your strategy?” And I said, “Well, let’s break it down.

1:54:17 I can do, uh, $2,100,000 in 24 hours. I can do $1,050,000 in two days. I could do $525,000 in 4 days. I could do 2625 in eight days.” I started breaking it down, and no matter how much I extended it, now I got to factor in inflation because the more I extend it, the more inflation is going to make this go up.

1:54:44 So I was now thinking how long is this going to take to do it, to get to a point where I think I can actually make that deposit into asset accumulation, and finally I broke it up into 15 years, 180 months. I said, “I think maybe by then,” and then I calculated what is the average amount that I need to be able to put into savings to be able to do that, because now with the inflation rate I’m now going to need 4 million. So I need 4 million in 180 months. That’s $22,000 a month average, going in accumulating with compound interest to get me that result in 15 years.

1:55:22 And no matter what I did, I thought, I’m saving $200 a month right now. I don’t see any light at the tunnel. And I said, I need to go and relieve my bladder. I need to go back to, and I just sat on the on the can and I put my head like Dobie Gillis in the 1960s, right? I’m sitting like this.

1:55:38 I’m having throbbing headache. I’m having cramps. Uh, my jaw is tight and I’m thinking, I have no idea how I’m going to get there. This doesn’t make any sense. Have I been living in a delusion and not wanting to face it?

1:55:51 And I guarantee a lot of people do that. They just live in the fantasy that someday somehow someway are we going to miraculously get there. And I sat there for probably 20 minutes in that room trying to meditate to calm my amygdala down because it was off the chart. And my headache, which was a conflict between what I’m actually living and what my fantasy was. And I got finally into kind of a meditative state and just sat there for a minute and something popped in my head.

1:56:25 And what came was the Force Accelerated Savings Technique and the Force Accelerated Investment Technique, FAST and FATE, popped in my head, which I have been using ever since. And I came out, my headache was a bit less, and I said, I think I’ve got a way. He says, what’s your strategy? He says, right now I’m saving $200 a month. I have no problem doing that.

1:56:52 But I could live at the border of comfort, uncomfort. Make it 300 in three months. Every quarter I could raise it and then make it 500. Then make it 750 and incrementally build up as I’m building my knowledge of my business. I could incrementally increase that when I hit $1,000 a month one year later, because I was paying off debt because I had a higher value on paying other people altruistically than I did in valuing myself at that time.

1:57:21 So when I got to $1,000, I ran a projection. I said if I keep doing $1,000 in 34 years I’ll be a millionaire. That’s not financially independent, but that’s just a million. So I knew I could be a millionaire at least in my life. But I made a commitment, and it is one of the most significant things I did.

1:57:36 I made a commitment that I was going to increase it 10% every quarter. So I made it 1,100. I ran another projection, 31 years. 1,210, ran another projection, 28 years. 1,344, ran another projection, right?

1:57:54 25.4 years. And now what I’m doing is I’m increasing the amount I’m saving and accelerating it and shortening the time frame. And then I realized when I got to $2,000 saving per month, I’m down to a point where I could be now a multimillionaire. And I thought, okay, I’m just going to do this saving. And once I built up a cash reserve of three to six months, I think it was four months, I just put it all into in investments into stocks.

1:58:23 I started buying the S&P 500 and various mutual funds at the time, and they didn’t have ETFs yet. And so, um, then when my student loan came through, instead of spending it raising my lifestyle, which most people do, I took that and I immediately put $400 more into here. But now I’m increasing 10% on whatever I’m doing, 10% every quarter. So that went to 4,000, 8,000, 16,000. Every two years it was doubling.

1:58:50 And then when another loan was finished, I put it in there. And so it was actually going faster than that. About every year and a half, it was now doubling. It went to 16. It went to 32, went to 64, it went to 128.

1:59:02 I got it to $256,000 a month. So, I needed 22,000. So, I was below it when I started, but I was way above it. And I reached financial independence in way less than what I imagined because I followed a strategy. Strategies build wealth.

1:59:18 Emotions destroy it. And so, I followed a strategy, a methodical, and, I, when you manage money wisely, you receive more money to manage. And when you go into comfort of uncomfort, uncomfort with your investments, you keep building and drawing more opportunities to your life, cuz that’s eustress, not distress. So I just started learning all the principles and devoured about 1,400 books on finances. 90% of them are worth throwing in the toilet.

2:00:39 London Real promo: Club.

2:00:40 See you in the investment club.

2:00:41 John Demartini: But there are some basic classical ones I learned to follow that were very valuable. Uh, Charles Ellis’s Winning the Loser’s Game, The Intelligent Investor. I started studying Buffett back in the late ’80s and I became financially independent from 37, just under 37, 36 to 37, and now it’s 50-plus times.

2:01:03 Strategy, not emotion.

2:01:05 Strategy, no emotion. Your amygdala is emotional.

2:01:09 Right.

2:01:09 It’s System 1 thinking, you emotion before you think.

2:01:12 Brian Rose: So it’s all Demartini Method.

2:01:12 John Demartini: It’s the Demartini Method. The Demartini Method is actually used by thousands of people to build their wealth.

2:01:19 To stabilize their emotions to have the temperament that Buffett says that it takes to have long-term planning and not react to the vicissitudes of the market. When people, when the market goes up, you make money in the past. When the market goes down, you make money in the future. If you just keep buying it and don’t worry about that and time the market all the time, you just keep buying it. If you do, it’ll regress to a mean, you can predict what it is, and you can stay certain on your predictions.

2:01:43 And that’s what’s happened.

2:01:45 Buffett said, “If you can’t manage your emotions, you can’t manage your money.”

2:01:48 Brian Rose: Can’t manage money, right? Because you’re an animal, not a human.

2:01:52 So it’s just a slightly different form of what we’ve been talking about for the last two hours. Again, the same, getting out of the amygdala, the amygdala into the

2:01:59 John Demartini: Basically described the socioeconomics, the economics, um, or social economics, showed, um, that this, all the markets are nothing but emotions of the animal nature inside the human being. It’s not rational, but the summation of all of it has a rational goal.

2:02:16 Brian Rose: Right. And do you have the courage to think that rational goal and hold on and which is the true intrinsic value of the market?

2:02:24 John Demartini: Right in the Pursue the intrinsic value of the market, you will not fail. You will do, if you get distracted by overexaggerations and underexaggerations of mass thinking, you will distract yourself. Bill Woods, back in the early ’80s, ’85 I guess, I went on his show and we did an interview about finance and, um, really good. He says, I’ve been doing the markets and doing things for 28 years, I’ve been a financial consultant, the average person in those days back in the ’70s and ’80s they were having huge, uh, upfront loads and back-end loads and management fees and trading fees and it was eroding the returns, and the, what’s his name, Bogle came along with the passive index funds and came in and reduced all those fees and about took out a lot of the companies when he did that.

2:03:11 And so I learned back in ’86, uh, to stick to the lowest cost and allow the market to just take care of me.

2:03:20 Brian Rose: Okay. And again, no heroes, no villains. Back to kind of what you teach. This is just applying it to the money in the markets.

2:03:26 Yeah.

2:03:27 John Demartini: And the people that are wealthy, you know, there’s, I found six things common to the wealthiest people on the planet. And I found also when people, you know, about somebody, well, they’re a billionaire and they’re this, they’re greedy or this and that. I go, when you have a low value on money, anybody that makes more money than you, you call greedy and, uh, and, uh, you know, expensive. And if you have a higher value than somebody, you call them cheap and inexpensive.

2:03:50 These are just labels that people put on you based on the hierarchy of their values. So, I pay no attention to people’s projections. That’s just a projection of their own reality and their own values and how they manage things. But I ask people how many of you ever used Microsoft Windows in every country I’ve been in. If I asked that, 99% of everybody will have said, I’ve done something with Microsoft Windows somewhere in my life.

2:04:14 Brian Rose: Yeah. Maybe that’s why he’s a billionaire. He created a product, service, or idea that served vast numbers of people.

2:04:21 John Demartini: Right. And if we think, if we care enough about humanity to think about what could we do to serve vast numbers of people, there’s no reason why we can’t make vast fortunes.

2:04:30 Brian Rose: Right. Something you’re doing. What were the six characteristics of the wealthy?

2:04:34 John Demartini: The first one is that they build a business that serves ever greater numbers of people. Name any billionaire and you’ll find that they built some sort of business, unless they inherited it, built some sort of business served ever greater numbers of people. So their customer base increases.

2:04:52 Their willingness to care about humanity. Um, The Book of Wealth by Hubert Howe Bancroft said that by divine, uh, divine, uh, providence or human sovereignty, the wealthy are those individuals that build some sort of service that serves vast numbers of people, progressively ever greater numbers of people. That’s one. That’s a, there were three things by Hubert Howe Bancroft. That one, and they contribute to the evolvement and the elevation of the standards of humanity.

2:05:23 Okay.

2:05:23 And the third one is they had transcended the morality of money. They don’t see it good or evil. As long as they see it good or evil, it runs them. They can’t run it.

2:05:32 Back to the Demartini back to the amygdala. That’s why I teach, that’s why I teach people in the finance.

2:05:36 So they don’t covet that wealth or they would lose it. They don’t

2:05:40 Demonize. If they are attached to it, uh, they fear the loss of it,

2:05:44 Right?

2:05:44 And what they fear the loss of there, that’s the predator. And when you seek the prey, the predator comes, because if you get the prey without the predator, you get fat and sluggish. And if you get the predator without it, you get starved in a month. You need both of them. And so if you get attached to one or the other, the Buddha says, find the middle path,

2:06:01 Brian Rose: Right?

2:06:01 And we all know that’s kind of true. When you chase something, it runs away. And when you attract it, it comes.

2:06:06 John Demartini: Yeah. Flee, they follow, follow, they flee.

2:06:08 Brian Rose: All right. So that’s three.

2:06:10 John Demartini: Well, no, that’s one.

2:06:11 That was one. Okay. All right. The second one that you find in the wealthiest billionaires is that they manage the business effectively and efficiently to maximize profits, either directly or indirectly by other people coming in like Paul Allen with Bill Gates or them doing it. But in most cases, they brought in teams that were experts on efficiency and effectiveness of managing so they could sell the product at a discount and they could hire the best people.

2:06:40 So they got the highest quality people and they could do it and produce, but they did it efficiently where they could now allow the prices to be competitive.

2:06:48 Okay.

2:06:48 The third one is that they saved an ever progressive portion of the profits and built up massive cash reserves to stabilize the volatility so the outside world doesn’t affect the business. Cash reserves. Buffett has three 300-something billion in cash reserves. But cash reserves, I looked at the Fortune 100 companies. I found that at least 40% to 100% of the whole year’s income is in cash reserves, stable because there’s no emotion.

2:07:20 And now you take advantage of crashes. When the emotions of the masses are crashing, you get to take advantage of opportunities and buy value stocks, buy value things

2:07:29 Brian Rose: And you survived the tricky times.

2:07:30 John Demartini: You survived the things. Okay, so cash reserve. The fourth one is investing in ever greater degrees of leverage. They constantly allow themselves to earn the right to risk. They don’t go punting out for speculations and quick things overnight.

2:07:45 They stabilize a foundation and they build another foundation, another foundation of ever progressive yielding investments. So they don’t have to ever worry about the gimmick that the financial planners do about your risk tolerance. When I did risk tolerance evaluations in the ’80s, I found out that when the market was up everybody was optimist and when the market was down everybody was a pessimist. So that meant that it had nothing to do with who they really are.

2:08:12 It’s just outside-driven. So I wanted to find out what is really the risk tolerance people have, and I can tell by how their allocation of their assets. I can tell what they can handle risk-wise, because people can handle 10% fluctuations without emotion. Anything more than that, they’re going to create. They’re gonna react.

2:08:27 So I look at how the assets. So you’re building layer upon layer of progressive. So you may build a, if you did index funds for instance, you might build a blue chip index fund and then a large cap and a midcap and a small cap, and, you know, go up the ranks, and each one will give you higher volatility quotients but at the same time yields.

2:08:44 Okay. So, you’re earning the right to risk and you’re also building, because you’re building up your assets, you’re getting, uh, opportunities that you wouldn’t have if you have $10, you get to hang out with 10-aires, a thousand thousandaires, a million millionaires, a billion billionaires. So, as you progress, you get new opportunities, new associations, new ideas, new, uh, compound interest. Everything is compounding.

2:09:07 Yeah.

2:09:07 And you get what the leverage that that has, the progressively ever greater degrees of leverage they’ve learned. The next one is that they have a desire for accumulating, um, not just a lifestyle for themselves but something for their family, community, city, state, nation, or world. The greater their cause, the greater the probability, which leads them into philanthropy. And the last one, the sixth one, is, um, creating a financial cause that leaves a legacy.

2:09:40 What are you going to leave on the market? Bill Gates Foundation, this foundation, that foundation. What is your, what are you going to redistribute the unwisely used tax money now that you have some of that? What are you going to do with it to serve people in the world? And then your fulfillment is based on that.

2:09:57 Brian Rose: And they all had components of that.

2:09:59 John Demartini: That I found that in the billionaires that I’ve interviewed, they had those six.

2:10:02 Brian Rose: Yeah. Because if they didn’t have five or six, then they

2:10:05 John Demartini: They stop. They plateau.

2:10:06 Brian Rose: Yeah. They probably could never get to where they needed to go.

2:10:09 John Demartini: No, without it has to be more than the money. If you have zero money and you add a dollar, the value of the dollar is 100%. You have $10, it’s 10%. $100, it’s 1%. Thousand, .1%. 10,000, .01%.

2:10:24 Right? When you get to a million, it’s 0.00001%. You get a billion, it’s 0.00001%. So as you accumulate money, the value of a dollar drops. So the value of the dollar when you have no money and you have a dollar in your pocket, somebody gives you a dollar and you’re in a toilet at a gas station and there’s no toilet paper, you’re not going to wipe your butt with it.

2:10:45 But if you got a billion, you wipe your butt with it. It’s not that big a deal. So that, there, the value of each additional dollar goes down as you accumulate wealth. And if you don’t have a cause going up to counterbalance it, you’ll plateau.

2:10:58 Brian Rose: Right. Okay. So you have the responsibility of a spiritual mission, an inspiring mission to counterbalance the material wealth.

2:11:06 Okay. So if people want to create this, they should look at these values, or you either have them or you don’t.

2:11:13 John Demartini: Well, you take out the should, because that’s an injected one. Yes. But just know that the hierarchy of their values is going to dictate their financial destiny if they would love wealth in that form. Now with that comes all the responsibilities of wealth. Yeah.

2:11:26 People who don’t have wealth think, well, when I get there, I’ll be happier, more pleasure, it’ll be easier.

2:11:31 Brian Rose: No, you have a completely new set of challenges, right?

2:11:34 John Demartini: I was sitting with one of the billionaires that live on the ship and, uh, he says, him and his wife were chatting with me and he says, “I spend now at least as much time giving my money away as I did building it.”

2:11:49 Brian Rose: That’s what I heard. I heard it’s harder to give away than it is to give. And you have to be very, very careful because people will squander your money and you have to make sure you put all the things in place and all the legal things to make sure that the charities or the people, the foundations, the universities you’re building or whatever it is is structured wisely. So I’m now doing the same amount of work building it as I am now disseminating it.

2:12:13 Right.

2:12:13 John Demartini: And so people have this idea and there’s new sets of challenges when you have wealth. Everybody’s got wealth, know that it’s new. Now you can, I just saw in South America somebody who had a wealthy business or whatever, got their daughter got hijacked and ransomed.

2:12:27 Uh, you got kids that have become entitled? You got

2:12:30 Relatives that want money? Any personal interaction you have, is it genuine, because they might want something from you. Yeah.

2:12:37 Brian Rose: So is your reality even real anymore?

2:12:39 John Demartini: Yeah. So that’s why some people just keep incognito. They don’t say anything about their wealth.

2:12:43 Brian Rose: I was in Dubai. I spent a lot of time in Dubai and I met some of the, um, founders of, uh, Ethereum, which is the second largest blockchain, and some of these guys are scared to leave the country because they know they could be victims of a kidnapping because they have so much money.

2:12:57 John Demartini: Exactly.

2:12:58 Brian Rose: And I thought, “Wow, you’re a prisoner because of what others would regard as the, they would want more than anything in the world, your wealth.”

2:13:07 John Demartini: There’s a great video that I watched recently that is a real eye-opener on the pitfalls of wealth. It’s really good, and it’s, and I make all my students get that so they have a grounding, non-infatuation but a grounding, objective understanding of the responsibilities that come with wealth, and it’s really good. It’s basically an eye-opener for most people.

2:13:33 Brian Rose: I would imagine.

2:13:33 And the trappings of wealth, right?

2:13:36 John Demartini: You know, because it has a series of questions at the end of the video that really helps you understand, does it run you or you running it? And it’s really good, and because you realize that you can be chasing something that you think is going to give you more pleasure than pain, and that’s the amygdala, and that’s what the guy said, Hubert Howe Bancroft, on his book, The Book of Wealth, that as long as you have an attachment of positive and negative to it, it runs you.

2:14:03 Right.

2:14:03 Because it occupies space and time in your mind. When you finally transcend that and you’re able to give and receive equally, you’re freed. What’s interesting, I wrote for Jetet magazine, an article I write for, and, um, an article on something that Bill Woods gave me when I was in the ’80s. He said, “You’re not a millionaire until you can gain and lose a million without an emotion. You’re not a billionaire until you can gain and lose a billion without an emotion.”

2:14:31 So, I was sitting with Bill Pollock, who’s a lovely guy that ran Drake International, and he’s a very wealthy billionaire, very amazing man. He’s dedicated his life since 1951 to build Drake International. Has God knows 300,000, I think, clients around the world, companies around the world that use his service. It was a really beautiful man. And we were at a French restaurant in Sydney across from the Four Seasons.

2:14:55 And at the restaurant somehow there was a, his phone came in and the report on what the stock was doing showed up and it dropped not about three quarters of a billion, not just under three, about 68% of a billion dollars dropped. His personal net worth dropped that day and I watched him respond and I said, uh, what’s, um, what’s happening? He said, “Uh, stock went down today. On paper, it went down about 680 million.” And I said, “What’s that like?”

2:15:28 He said, “I’m at one time I was committed suicide.” When I remember when I first started doing it, when it would go up $100 or down $100, I would be emotional. Then it got to enough where it was going up a thousand, down a thousand, and I’d get emotional. Then 10,000, then 100,000. Now, I’ve had fluctuations of a million in a day and it’s not reactive, but it’s only because that’s accumulated so far that it’s beyond the 10% rule.

2:15:56 Brian Rose: That’s a great rule.

2:15:57 John Demartini: Yeah, that’s a good rule. I’ve been using it for all these years.

2:16:00 Brian Rose: Wow. That’s a great rule. So, you’re not that until you can go up or down that. And still,

2:16:04 John Demartini: That’s when you know that you have control over the money. You’re not letting it run you.

2:16:08 Brian Rose: It’s that great line from the movie Fight Club where he says, “The things you own end up owning you.”

2:16:14 John Demartini: Well, that’s what this movie is about. This video is about that. Um, are you really prepared for wealth?

2:16:21 Right.

2:16:21 Most people are not and therefore their fantasies will block them from ever achieving it.

2:16:27 Brian Rose: And you could say the same thing about fame.

2:16:28 John Demartini: Same thing for fame.

2:16:30 Brian Rose: Right. You

2:16:30 John Demartini: There’s, I have another great video on that one. It’s about 30, 25 maybe celebrities and they all thought they’d be happy if they got fame and then they all talking about what really comes along with it, right? I mean, Lady Gaga and Cam Diaz and all kind of people, they’re all talking about what has been the trappings of that,

2:16:51 Right?

2:16:52 To help people realize that there’s pain and pleasure.

2:16:54 Brian Rose: You can kind of normalize those, too. Uh, John, I wanted to finish where we started, which is with, uh, Donald Trump, an old friend of yours, and a guy that is extremely polarizing. I think it’s probably fair to say. I guess he’s probably the most famous person in the world. And at this current time in ’25, he’s probably the single person that more people love and more people hate in the entire world right now.

2:17:18 I think most people would agree with that. And I’m wondering how you can talk to people about how they might process their relationship with Donald’s.

2:17:27 John Demartini: I do it every week.

2:17:28 Right.

2:17:28 He comes up every week.

2:17:30 Brian Rose: He does. Isn’t that fascinating? Right. Okay. So, you’re an expert at this and it’s interesting because you know him and you’ve talked to me in the past about, you know, you used to live at Trump Tower and all that.

2:17:39 Maybe you can talk a little bit about that background. Um, yeah, talk to me, because he talks about it as Trump derangement syndrome,

2:17:46 John Demartini: And there’s people out there that probably think about him every hour of every day. And then there’s peoples that agitate him and look at him as their god and savior and think about him every hour of every day.

2:17:55 Both are fooled, right?

2:17:56 Brian Rose: And there’s people in the middle, I guess, but probably fewer people in the middle.

2:18:00 That’s the way it is, isn’t it? Right.

2:18:02 John Demartini: Two people, the, you have a dumbbell-shaped curve society or a bell-shaped curve society.

2:18:08 When you have a bell-shaped curve society, you have stability. When you have a dumbbell shape, you have revolutions.

2:18:14 Okay?

2:18:14 And dumbbell means the weights on both ends.

2:18:15 Brian Rose: Both polarities, right?

2:18:16 John Demartini: Whereas highly polarized states of support and challenge, okay?

2:18:20 But support and challenge. I want to make a statement here. I want everybody to hear, whoever’s listening here, I want you to really think about this. You’re only going to grow in life to the level of both praise and reprimand you can handle. So if you can handle this much praise but only this much reprimand, you’re only going to grow to that level.

2:18:37 Brian Rose: Ah, you’re constrained by the one that constrains you.

2:18:40 John Demartini: Constrained by the one that controls you.

2:18:42 Okay.

2:18:42 Now I had a guy in South Africa. He had nine companies and a holding company with nine subsidiaries. Very young guy when I first met, he was around 37. He already had this accumulated. I mean, telephone companies and shipping companies.

2:18:59 The guy was just off the charts. Very brilliant guy. Very economically savvy. Was helping do, redo this, the economics of the country. And they were nailing him in the media.

2:19:11 I mean, television was after him, the newspapers are after him. Just nailing this guy, because the higher you go, the more the hero and villains meet. So you’re doing business with what some people will call a villain and a hero, and they’re going to be, and you can’t get to the top without having people. You have to own both your hero and villain to get to the top. And so I did what I call, I call them six and 13 on them.

2:19:38 I said, “Go to the moment where and when you perceive them really attacking you and falsely accusing you with distorted information and attacking you. You really are angry and hurt by it.” Great. “Who is distorting and praising you in equal and opposite format at that moment?” And we stacked up all the people that were doing that were meaningful.

2:19:57 There were fewer people over here but more influential and many people over here that he really didn’t put a lot of emphasis on, but the total was a balance. And I made him go through each moment he perceived one where the other was and centered him. And when he got through, he goes, “There’s nothing out of order.” I said, “Nope.”

2:20:55 London Real promo: Peter Thiel took a half a million dollars and turned it into have to have the financial education and the deal flow.

2:21:15 That’s it.

2:21:16 John Demartini: You were fooled by reading only information that and didn’t think through to see both sides. Entropy and disorder means missing information. The hidden order is when you see all the information. So I made him ask a question that he had overlooked and he was unconscious of, where were the supporters to balance the challengers. And once I balanced them, and we did, uh, 79 examples in moments when he was attacked in these few days beforehand, 79 attacks, we went and balanced them all out.

2:21:47 And he goes through, he says, “I don’t even have anxiety right now. I’m not even stressed. I’m actually realizing that I’ve just been elevated to a new position, and that’s what my goal was.” I said, “Yeah, you’re getting your goal.” He goes, “This is worth an enormous amount to me, cuz I’m not now distracted by it and it just doesn’t have an effect on me.”

2:22:05 I said, “Exactly.”

2:22:05 Brian Rose: Right. The goal was the wealth and the power, and he had earned it by being able to be

2:22:10 John Demartini: The goal wasn’t that. His goal was to serve vast numbers of people through his country.

2:22:14 Brian Rose: Got it.

2:22:14 John Demartini: And he could only do that if he could weather both sides.

2:22:17 And he was looking for what were needs in this society. And they needed telecom and they needed this and they needed that. And so whatever was needed in this society on a large scale, he was building and putting people together. But you can’t get to those levels without having somebody who’s in bed with somebody else.

2:22:32 Right.

2:22:32 And so somebody got a hold and said, “Well, he’s in bed with this person, in not bed literally, but I mean in business with somebody who’s considered the bad guy.” And so they associated because they went and attacked him. And that’s how this whole thing got out of line. But when he got through, he says, “There’s nothing out of order. I’m right on track.”

2:22:50 And I said, “Exactly. The person who can see the hidden order in the apparent chaos is the master.”

2:22:55 Okay? And

2:22:56 And Donald, believe it or not, don’t be fooled by his antics.

2:23:02 You know Donald well, don’t be fooled by his mass media fame, antics, strategies to get mass media to attack him. And he just, he’s taken it to the bank.

2:23:16 Brian Rose: Explain that.

2:23:17 John Demartini: He is fully aware that his polarity is what keeps mass media around the world helping him.

2:23:23 Brian Rose: Right. He has known that for a long time.

2:23:25 John Demartini: He’s known that a long time. He’s been using the media sensationally for three decades at least.

2:23:31 Brian Rose: Yeah. He did that well in New York City.

2:23:32 John Demartini: Yeah.

2:23:33 In fact, his affairs and his nightlife would get him real estate deals in the end because the fame built it. Well, I’ve seen him attack people in public and be friends with them behind the scenes five minutes later.

2:23:47 Brian Rose: Okay.

2:23:47 John Demartini: So, I I know enough about that. So, and it’s purely for sensational media games.

2:23:54 Brian Rose: And everyone always says that. They’re like, when they spend time with him behind the scenes, they always say, “Wow, I really like him. He’s so personable. He’s so humble. He’s so funny.”

2:24:03 And everybody says that and it’s, which I guess pretty much justifies what you said. He’s got the media personality that he uses to get the attention and to polarize people.

2:24:15 John Demartini: Yeah. He’s not worth putting on pedestals or putting in pits.

2:24:18 Brian Rose: Right. Right.

2:24:18 John Demartini: He’s worth putting in hearts.

2:24:19 Brian Rose: Okay.

2:24:19 John Demartini: Like all of us.

2:24:20 Brian Rose: What does that mean?

2:24:23 John Demartini: Uh, when you meet me, you can have, uh, neutral, positive, or negative response. But I’m not worth putting on a pedestal. I’m not worth putting in the pit. I’m just worth putting in your heart because that’s where the truth is. Because the second you put me on a pedestal, you’ll minimize yourself.

2:24:40 You lost yourself. Second you put me in the pit, you just exaggerated yourself. You put me in your heart and balance the equation, you get to be yourself and so do I. And we get to see that we’re both sided. We’re heroes and villains.

2:24:53 And I tell people that it liberates you. And all the other stuff is just baggage and bondage that keeps you from growing and empowering your life in each area of life.

2:25:01 Brian Rose: Is that your message to the people out there with the Trump derangement system syndrome?

2:25:05 John Demartini: Go look at the other side. Find the other side and find the balance between them. Okay? Because there’s a guy, I listened to a guy that was just, he was brilliant young guy. He must have nailed 110 uh downsides, derogatory, uh, just terrible things that Donald’s done.

2:25:25 All are accurate. He nailed every downside and saw all the downsides, the bads and everything else by the people that have that bias. There’s another person that’s got all the positives on him. Both are biased. Both are incomplete.

2:25:39 Both fight with each other. You know, because you’re wrong. No, I’m right. Right. Both of them are true about Donald.

2:25:47 He’s a builder and a destroyer.

2:25:50 And that’s what everyone That’s all of us. Can we face the question is, can you face the truth about your whole self,

2:25:59 Brian Rose: Right?

2:25:59 John Demartini: And stop trying to get rid of one side and be one-sided because it’s futile.

2:26:04 Brian Rose: Is that why we demonize people and put people on pedestals so we don’t ultimately have to look at ourselves the disowned parts? All those are disown

2:26:11 And our dark sides. We want to avoid those. And a great way is to

2:26:14 John Demartini: We resent people that remind us of what we feel ashamed of. We admire people of what we feel proud of. Both of those are incomplete awarenesses of others and self. Okay? If I go and I look and I find I had all the traits, I’m a hero villain.

2:26:31 And what’s interesting is people can come up to me and say he’s, if they have a similar value to me, you know, they’re involved in personal development and teaching and things like that, they’ll say, “Well, John’s determined. He’s perseverant. He’s, uh, highly educated. He’s focused. He’s that.”

2:26:49 They’ll have that label. I have somebody else that has a high value on family and maybe not on personal development, everything else. They’ll say, “He’s rigid. He’s stubborn. He’s stuck.

2:27:00 He’s got the wrong values. He’s, uh,

2:27:02 Egotistical.”

2:27:02 Brian Rose: Egotistical, right?

2:27:04 John Demartini: They’re all right.

2:27:05 Brian Rose: Right. They just have different values.

2:27:07 John Demartini: They’re projections.

2:27:09 So, when I hear projections, I know they’re giving me an insight of who they are.

2:27:13 Okay?

2:27:14 And then I can go and find out where they are in me, and then I can love them. If I do that, the people out in the outside don’t, they don’t really distract you.

2:27:25 Brian Rose: I think my last question is, if I acknowledge the dark side of me, and I acknowledge it’s not even dark.

2:27:30 John Demartini: Okay, not dark.

2:27:30 Brian Rose: If I acknowledge the cruelness in me and the whatever the things that I would, uh, society has taught me that I don’t want to be and so I ignore. I can acknowledge it, but I can also not continue it, or I just acknowledge it.

2:27:44 John Demartini: You can’t get rid of it.

2:27:45 Brian Rose: Okay. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t try to be the person. That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t try to yell at my kids that or I shouldn’t.

2:27:51 John Demartini: You’re going to Just try not to yell at your kids. They’ll take it right to the edge to make sure it comes out.

2:27:58 See, you people are trying to get rid of that.

2:28:00 Brian Rose: Yeah, but I’m trying not to kill people every day. I shouldn’t just let it happen, right?

2:28:03 John Demartini: No, we are killing people in some respects. I’m a serial killer in some respects. Uh, I’m taking their personas that they think they are and I’m dissolving them in my programs and helping them see who they really are. So, I’m a serial killer of personas every week.

2:28:17 Brian Rose: That’s a different way of thinking about it.

2:28:19 John Demartini: Yeah. I got to own that trait, too. And Michel Montaigne, the, uh, French philosopher, traveled around the world looking for a universal value system, a moral structure. That’s the universal value system. There’s people that believe that there, but they’re usually fanatics, religious fanatics that are trying to get their belief system imposed onto people.

2:28:40 None was found. I mean, if you take somebody over in, uh, in, uh, uh, the Muslim area in the Middle East and they will see that blowing up a building is doing God’s work, that’s how they’ll, you know, the radical, the average Muslim is loving, openware. But the radicals, the radical will see that that’s it. And he will be honored by his group for blowing up a building, get rid of a building or something like that, whatever, if that’s even true. But the point is that they will honor that because in their value system they’re doing the divine work.

2:29:15 Brian Rose: It’s interesting.

2:29:16 John Demartini: Yeah.

2:29:16 So in their idea killing is serving. They’re getting rid of riffraff. They’re getting rid of people that are, they’re infidels. They’re getting rid of, and somebody else will see that as evil. So what they think is good another person thinks is evil.

2:29:28 So, they have to be careful about that, because under situational ethics, um, if somebody says, “Thou shalt not kill.” And then all of a sudden, somebody’s now got your child there and they’re about to rape your child in front of you and there’s a knife nearby and you think, “If I get that knife, I might save my child. And if I kill them, I save my child.” Situational ethics will put you in a very situation where you go, “Hm, maybe in this setting, in this situation, maybe it’s to my advantage to take that person’s life instead of doing it.

2:29:56 If I could find a way of saving both lives, I would do that.” But I may be in a situation where I only see one solution. So I don’t jump. I think that the impulse and the instinct to label something good or evil initially needs to be softened and thought through and use reason, because we got the act, is it intentional or not intentional? We have the consequences, and the consequences we don’t know the answers to.

2:30:22 So we might find out, as we found out, a lady that was in the Timothy McVeigh blowing up in the, in the, in Oklahoma. I met with a lady that the building collapsed, killed her little daughter. And I met with her one year later because they asked me to speak, uh, about this for the annual event, and she said, “This is the greatest blessing in my life when it collapsed and my daughter died. It put us on the map. It made me find a new husband.

2:30:49 It made me find a new child who looked almost identical.” And she says, “And I have a big beautiful business. I was in poverty before that. We were about to close our business. Life was stressful.

2:31:00 I was about to go through a divorce. My life’s upgraded from that.” Hm, that’s interesting. Was it good or evil? In her mind, she said that was a blessing in her life.

2:31:13 Wow.

2:31:13 Even though she had child died, she also had a new renewed life with a new child. And so she saw that she got, you know, window shut, a door open, kind of thing.

2:31:23 All right.

2:31:24 So it’s wise to stop and reflect and not assume that that is just the way the answer is. Wiser to have a broader, more in-depth knowledge and look deeper.

2:31:34 Brian Rose: Question things.

2:31:34 John Demartini: Question a little bit deeper.

2:31:36 Brian Rose: Okay. Super powerful stuff. How can people pull the thread here and start to go down the Demartini rabbit hole? Should they do the values test first on your website? How can they come see you?

2:31:48 I know you’re in London this weekend doing the Demartini Method Values Factor. How can they jump into this world of yours?

2:31:54 John Demartini: I really believe that if they go to the website and do a complimentary, uh, exercise, it takes about 30 minutes, and really answer the questions thoughtfully and be really present with yourself, and really look and answer the questions and watch the videos and really answer it as honestly as you can. It will be eye-opening to help them look at what’s really priority in their life and why they’re disciplined in one area and why they keep not being in another area. It helps them realize what their life’s demonstrating.

2:32:26 If they want to go and browse the website, which is an educational website, they could spend the rest of their life on there. They’re going to have to believe in Buddhism and reincarnation because you couldn’t do it in one life. There’s so much on that website. So, it’s not just a selling website, it’s an educational website also. And so, they can go on there and watch media and videos and newspapers and magazines and articles and stuff like that, because I’ve done thousands of those.

2:32:50 That would be a great education. They could also come and join me at the Breakthrough Experience. That’s the most significant thing. When I was 17 years old, I met Paul C. Bragg.

2:33:00 He inspired me one night with one message and my life changed. My Breakthrough Experience that I’ve been doing now 37 years, 1,247 times, uh, is my attempt to do what he did for me with people. That’s it. That’s what I do.

2:33:18 Brian Rose: And you do that in person and you do that online as well.

2:33:23 John Demartini: Yeah. Because people in Madagascar are not going to go flying somewhere, but they can watch me on that. So we got that way we get to reach people that normally couldn’t get to come,

2:33:33 Right?

2:33:33 And then we have also some live ones.

2:33:35 Brian Rose: So I just have to plug in. You do like a two-day thing. So I got to be there and present for those two days.

2:33:40 John Demartini: Two solid days. Just be present for two days.

2:33:42 Present for two days, and your perceptions about the reality of life are about to change.

2:33:47 Brian Rose: And you get some incredible results from the digital ones as you do the online.

2:33:51 John Demartini: Oh, yeah. Digital is just as powerful.

2:33:54 Brian Rose: All right. You might see me on one of those soon. Uh, that or the next time you’re in London.

2:33:58 John Demartini: Get ready to take notes. Get ready to self-reflect. Get ready to shatter some myths.

2:34:03 Brian Rose: Good. I want to do that. It’s so it’s so hard to do this, John, because I grew up and I guess we all grew up in this, you know, moral lens to everything. You caught me many times here. Why is it good, Brian?

2:34:17 Why is that bad? Why is it good? Why is everything coded even before it gets to the cortex, right? The amygdala codes.

2:34:22 Where does it come from?

2:34:24 John Demartini: Yeah. There’s a fantastic little video by a priest, and, um, if anybody’s watching, go on and look on YouTube for “Priest Says No Hell.” That’s the title, and it comes up with a guy with a little white collar, little Catholic priest, and he goes, uh, religion was in the guilt-producing control business, and people don’t understand that, but it’s in the guilt-producing control business and it uses fantasies of heaven and hell to polarize the amygdala into getting them to do what the rules are about.

2:35:02 It keeps the, now, is it essential? A society that doesn’t have something like that will probably be chaotic. So is it essential? Yep. For the masses who can’t govern themselves, but as Porphyry said in the third century in his Against the Christians, he wrote a text, he said it was for the unintelligent, not the intelligentsia.

2:35:24 And, uh, so keep that in mind, whoever it is, to realize it. Now does that mean that you can’t appreciate the religions of the world? You can, and there’s wisdom in there. You want to extract the perennial philosophy that the religions imagine a mirror of truth that was created. It had the pure reflection of all the knowledge and it got broken and vandals took a little splinter and they created their own versions of it and each of those became the religions and each had a piece of the mirror of truth.

2:35:56 Can you have the wisdom to transcend it and not get caught in tribal, local, monogal constructs and allow yourself to see the whole and get the mirror of truth and see the reflection that you have it all. And you will require all of it to master your life. It’s

2:36:15 Brian Rose: A beautiful analogy.

2:36:16 Yeah.

2:36:17 Beautiful.

2:36:17 Dr. John, thank you so much. I’m trying not to put you on a pedestal right now because I know that’s not going to help either one of us.

2:36:23 John Demartini: No, it’s not.

2:36:23 Brian Rose: So, I’m going to hold you in my heart.

2:36:25 Yeah.

2:36:25 But I very much appreciate you, and your stuff’s really been resonating with me the last couple years, and, uh, just really want to value you and just tell everybody here, just I think there’s something really important here for everybody, maybe even for the sanity of the planet and the future of the planet. So, uh, I just encourage everybody to just try to meditate on some of the things said here today, no matter how incredulous it might sound. There’s, I think there’s some really profound truth in here and love.

2:36:52 So, thank you so much.

2:36:54 John Demartini: Thank you. Thank you very much for the great another interview. Thank you.

2:36:56 Brian Rose: All right. I’m going to see you at the Breakthrough in the near future, in the next 12 months, and, uh, let’s do this again sometime, too.

2:37:03 John Demartini: I look forward to it.

2:37:03 Brian Rose: Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you.

2:37:04 Appreciate it.