Full transcript: July Grullon on London Real
3:42 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is July Grullon, the entrepreneur, fintech expert and web 3 innovator. You are the Co founder and CEO of Netti Worth, the first AI loan protocol built to power a new era of decentralized lending. Your mission is to redefine how we unlock liquidity in the age of blockchain, building a smarter, more accessible and scalable lending ecosystem for both digital and real world assets.
4:07 You believe that anyone should be able to borrow against their on chain assets with the same level of sophistication and insight available in traditional finance. At its core, Netti Worth is an intelligent loan protocol that fuses AI, automation, defy infrastructure and real time asset data to serve a new generation of borrowers and lenders. You said that Netti Worth isn’t just fueling the D5 movement, it’s creating an entirely new layer of trust, access and liquidity across the blockchain ecosystem. July.
4:36 Welcome to London Real in Dubai.
4:38 July Grullon: Thank you so much for having me.
4:39 Brian Rose: Look, it’s great to have you here. You know, I want to start by saying that Netti Worth is one of our portfolio companies here at London Real Ventures, the world’s first media powered investment firm, where our mission is to transform the world by investing in cutting edge Web 3 and AI companies, while giving our partners marketing exposure across the London Real Media platform and academies. We heighten awareness, create customers and build communities by leveraging our global audience and extensive network. July we’re super excited to be part of this journey with you. So let’s jump in.
5:07 What is Netti Worth?
5:09 July Grullon: Yeah. So an AI loan infrastructure that enables users to borrow and lend against their digital and real world assets. And our infrastructure also serves as you know, as the technology that enables even dabs to use our technology so they can launch their own lending marketplace, right? And look at netti worth serving more like an aggregator.
5:34 And all these parties could be processing loans throughout the world, right? So it doesn’t matter if it’s a user wants to borrow against a property in Dubai, a lender could be somewhere in San Francisco in that case. And basically the way we look at it is the way Visa MasterCard has been the infrastructure of payments for the traditional world. Our goal is to become the infrastructure of lending in the Web Three world. Wow. All right.
6:02 Brian Rose: And that doesn’t really exist right now, does it?
6:05 July Grullon: No, I mean we have players like think of like Ave. where people are just borrowing and lending against tokens, right? Like Bitcoin, Etherium, but not really dominating on on chain assets. So anything like NFT, right, collectible assets, gaming assets, real world assets that are on chain, it doesn’t matter if it’s a commodity such as gold or real estate or luxury watches or anything like that.
6:30 So that’s the area that we’re targeting any on chain asset, right, that’s not a token is where we want to facilitate all that barring and lending.
6:38 Brian Rose: Nice. And that’s for individuals and businesses.
6:40 July Grullon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you’re an individual, you could borrow and lend. If you’re a business, you could use our infrastructure to launch your own loan marketplace.
6:49 Brian Rose: Okay. And RWA is a huge narrative right now. You got BlackRock putting securities on there. You got Franklin Templeton involved near where you are in San Francisco. You know, we’ve got wine going on chain here in Dubai.
7:02 The Demac Properties is putting a lot of their real estate on chain. So as all of this is growing, it makes you guys just more needed, more relevant.
7:11 July Grullon: Yeah, Yeah. That’s how we look at it. As loan demand rises, users are going to need new new options and new tools to access liquidity, right?
7:20 And I think that’s one of the biggest potentials that we see. You know, you know, FIM from BlackRock recently said, you know, you know, banks that don’t adopt to, to crypto are basically going to go away over the next few years. It’s the equivalent of like, you know, writing a letter when you could send an e-mail, right? Like it just doesn’t work, right. And in today’s world where like there’s all this asset, but it’s not on chain, right?
7:50 And, and, and most, you know, think of, think of like most folks that have a home and the process of refinancing that home, how long does that take? Or maybe they have a car collection, right? And, and then they have to, you know, move the vehicle somewhere or, you know, try to try to call auction houses to see who they have to that could provide liquidity. Like there’s so much friction with like real world assets that are not on chain, right? And that process of access to liquidity is very slow.
8:23 Brian Rose: Yeah. So I could have, you know, these watches and these cars, maybe a property, maybe some securities, maybe some digital assets. And yet you go to the bank and they’re like, I can’t give you a loan, right, because you don’t have a good credit score or I don’t see anything here. And it just is a complete disconnect. And you want to be able to solve that because with web three, they should be able to give you the loan even faster, maybe in seconds, correct? But now they can’t even do it in 30 days because they can’t evaluate those assets.
8:49 And so they’re missing. There’s just a huge gap.
8:52 July Grullon: Yeah. And so, well, you know, one of the one of the great things that we’ve done is a peer-to-peer market. So like let’s say in in this case, let’s say it’s a piece of real estate.
9:02 The real estate costs $1,000,000, it’s worth $1,000,000. A lender could say hey I will lend you five 600,000 towards that asset. So the LTV will be about 5060% of it and basically that asset will be on chain. If the bar pays back his loan, there’s no issue there. If they default, that title or you know how that property is served on chain will be transferred over to the lender side of things.
9:29 Brian Rose: OK. Now it gets interesting because now you’ve got the AI powered loan infrastructure. So this is pretty exciting because I’m pretty sure there’s no bank out there using anything AI powered in their loan portfolio. Now you’re plugging this into having things also on chain in RWA. How does this work and how do you start to get your head around that? Yeah.
9:50 July Grullon: So the the first part is like, not to go so deep into all the magic, right, But at the top level is like, think of like all the data that’s in a user’s wallet, so how much crypto they’re holding, what assets they have. And what we’re doing is we’re evaluating these wallets, you know, every second and the minute that you have an asset that qualifies for a loan, we now present you with a borrowing opportunity and also a lending opportunity if we know you have enough wealth or enough crypto where you could earn by lending, right? So we, you know, part of our mission is to just make Web 3 users defy users without them even knowing. And I think the traditional world has done that very well in the sense of like, you know, the back story of netti worth. It was like we looked at what Credit Karma was doing and what, you know, most folks that don’t know Credit Karma sold to Intuit for $8 billion.
10:50 Most people in America view them as a credit score provider. But really what Credit Karma was doing was they were evaluating your credit score, knowing which loans you already qualified, right? So they were selling car loans, home loans, right? Personal loans, right? And it was because they had the data.
11:08 And that’s really the beauty and power of Nettiworth, where it’s not just technology, but also the data from our users where we’re able to assess this and provide these borrowing and lending opportunities in a completely new way.
11:21 Brian Rose: That analogy is super powerful. And again, you already have a company in Web 2IN, you know, in the finance world that’s had that big exit and yet you might have even better data in Web 3. And so for people that don’t understand the difference between web 2 and web three data, how do you first explain that? Because I’m sure when you’re in Sunclon Valley and you start to say, oh, and by the way, we know everything you did in your wallet.
11:45 And I’m sure people in banking are like, what are you talking about? Because in a banking, you know your bank account, I can’t see what you’re doing. But in web three, I can so talk about that and how it can make it even better. What you. Do
11:58 July Grullon: yeah, yeah. So one of one of the great things again about Web 3 is the transparency of everything being on chain. So we can know, hey, how much crypto Brian is holding, how much digital assets you have.
12:08 And, and then we could go deeper there, right? So we can know how many times you borrowed and defaulted on a loan in the Defy world. And this is where we created Neti score, which tells lenders the repayment rate of a wallet. So the way we looked at this was let’s reimagine what a credit score is. And in the web two world, you have your Social Security. In the web three world, let’s look at it like it’s your wallet.
12:35 So let’s identify this wallet with this user. And let’s look at, again, the crypto holding, the digital asset holding. How many times did this user borrow against their assets? How many times did they default? And let’s provide a repayment rate to lenders so they could better assess these loans, right?
12:55 So this is something we were very excited with. And then with our AI machine learning model, we Start learning the behaviors of your activity, which is a great point to what you said, the transparency of on chain data. And now we know what you like to borrow against and also what you like to lend against. So that way we could better serve our users. So for instance, if we know that Brian likes to lend on crypto punks and that’s all he loves, right? So let’s make sure that we present Brian with with more blue chip type of assets that are there. And it it could be vice versa.
13:34 It could be another user where they’re very focused on gaming assets in the future of maybe a property on the metaverse or anything like that. And then we could serve that to them. This is why this is so important because we want to make sure that as liquidity comes in, folks that are focused on a particular segments such as real estate, collectible sport cars or traditional art that we’re serving them the right borrowing and lending opportunity by using this data. And this is where we start separating ourselves dramatically compared to anyone else, right? Because we look at us, you know, it’s not just the technology, but the data and how we use this data and how we’re working with AI and machine learning to provide a completely new experience that most users, again, don’t need to pay attention to, right?
14:29 Brian Rose: And on that side. So if I’m a user and I come in, you’ll start showing me things that I might really want to see benefits and possibilities and things I might want to borrow or lend and different rates and things. And that’s all based on my history and my data. It’s very customized to who I am. And then the institutions on the other side, you can see, OK, these are the people you’re going to have potentially really high repayment rates. These are the customers you want to focus on. And then you’re the middle with all the data and the data could be worth $8 billion.
14:58 July Grullon: Or more or more or more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
15:01 Brian Rose: What’s the AI high-powered learning like? Because you’re probably one of the first people in the world to look at a, A at on chain data, you know, with that AI perspective, what are you kind of seeing and learning about people in the habits and things? I’m just kind of curious, are you surprised by some things or or not?
15:19 July Grullon: Yeah, I think, I think what I’m surprised about is how fast like like folks that are barring against their assets they’re, you know, typically is someone would think, oh, it’s because they don’t have capital and you know, that maybe they’re inexperienced. But the way real capital works is folks that have a high net worth will bar against their assets because they want to do other things with that capital without, you know, allocating additional capital somewhere else. So one of the things that we notice is that right now a lot of height net worth individuals in the crypto market are barring against their assets and which is like completely opposite from most people’s thoughts of, oh, it means that someone doesn’t have capital, right?
16:07 So, so that’s on a basic front from the AI machine learning. I think the biggest thing is the opportunities that we’re able to share. So for instance, if there’s a, a lender that likes to lend against like board apes or crypto punks, these blue chip type of assets, they’re very open to new collections that are moving towards that direction or like art block projects that, you know, could be worth, you know, maybe 20 or 40 EVE. So, So what we’re learning is that the, the machine learning aspect of it is presenting better opportunities for them and where they’re open to it on that side, which is our our main goal, right, like to get outside the asset. So if you’re a lender for real estate property in Dubai, maybe you want to also see property in New York. Right, right.
16:59 And then maybe in the future you might want a loan against something else crypto punk maybe, but it’s slowly, slowly but surely on that.
17:07 Brian Rose: I’m curious if what are you seeing high net worth individuals do with that money they borrow from? Are they sometimes investing back in the market, leveraging up?
17:17 July Grullon: Yes, yeah, yeah. So I think most of the time they’re leveraging up exactly how you said.
17:22 And you know, most folks don’t know that just the NFT side of things. That’s already a $5 billion market in lending. So it’s already I I would say a pretty good sized market and you know, which will eventually hit that 10 twelve $15 billion. But yeah, that’s the biggest thing that we’ve seen is that folks are taking short term loans. So these loans typically are around 15 to 30 days and they’re making bets on these and some of these guys are winning like like winning really big, right.
17:52 So, you know, interest rates are around 20% for the year. But again, the way crypto moves and the current market, this is this is the dynamic of, you know, the current condition. We do see, because this is peer-to-peer, that as more lenders get involved on the peer-to-peer side, we do see where interest rates will naturally go down because now lenders are competing against each other, which serves the market in a better.
19:03 Brian Rose: And people are buying, you know, what are they buying? They’re probably not buying like meme coins and stuff. They kind of buying just.
19:26 July Grullon: I think it’s still the traditional assets, the Ethereum, the Bitcoin, the XRPS, solanas and all that. Not to say some won’t get in on some meme coins, but I don’t, I, I think a lot of the folks that have, you know, 50, a hundred, half, $1,000,000 in digital assets already, they’re more experienced than like newcomers that are like, hey, I’m going to put 100K into like mean coins or something like that.
19:49 Brian Rose: Yeah. Yeah. And it makes a lot of sense. You know, I know a lot of people in this space and to free up new capital, you know, to buy some Solana because you have a good feeling it’s going up and we’re not finally at the bull market quarter, You know, that doesn’t make sense. But if you’re sitting there with, you know, an NFT portfolio or a portfolio of other things and you’re thinking, look, these things don’t move, they’re very blue chip. And why not, you know, use 100 grand here on on a monthly look, when I know my, my NFT isn’t going to drop by 80%. And if it does, OK, then I’ll take that risk. But right now I’d rather do that than borrowing against my home or using some capital cash over here. And you can do it quickly and efficiently. And you know.
20:31 July Grullon: Yeah, I I like to look at it like that NFTS are they were just the beginning concept of all this, right. And if you look at like a real world asset, it naturally just becomes an NFT, right? A non fungible token. It’s just the asset is tied to it, right? But yeah, I, I, I look at it like that, that it’s just the beginning of what’s to come right in, in the potential.
20:57 Brian Rose: Will your customers be able to borrow against their Bitcoin holdings and other things as well?
21:04 July Grullon: So in the future we do plan to to scale and and go let’s say multi chain and across assets. So we are looking like, you know, basically we want to make sure we’re serving all markets particularly where we chose to focus our attention and dominate in market share right now is on the digital asset and RW as because we want to be very, very early on that side of things.
21:30 Brian Rose: OK, gotcha. What’s the NETI score? Obviously something in America, everyone’s really sensitive about their credit score. And like you said, it’s typically linked to your Social Security number, which follows you around your whole life. But these days, I mean, I haven’t lived in the States in a while.
21:44 That score is important, right? I mean, sometimes your employers check what it is, your loans, your credit cards, your car loans. It’s like a number that’s a big deal. Are you trying to do that same kind of thing with the Neti score?
21:56 July Grullon: So, yeah, so the the first version of it is to basically highlight how many times you borrowed and defaulted and to display your repayment rate to lenders.
22:04 But this score will evolve in in telling a much deeper story. And ultimately what we want to do is build a score around your wallet activity, your wallet holdings, right? Like the assets you own and that layer of borrowing and repayment. So we’re on version one, but this will ultimately expand. You know, we’ve seen a lot of folks in the Web 3 space build credit score tools or technology, but one of the things that we found is that they were never tying that into a product.
22:40 And that doesn’t work because it doesn’t have a use case. It’s almost like I created the score and I hope someone uses it. In our case, it actually serves the lender right. And and I think as we’re going back and forth and learning a lot about what lenders want to see, you know, we’re very confident that we’re moving in the right direction and again, focusing on data versus just barring and lending on that side of things, right? Like this concept of barring and lending against tokens or digital assets has been around for three, 4-5 years, but no one has participated in this space using data, creating borrowing and lending opportunities and using a Neti score system like a web three credit score to provide lenders better data, right? And what we realize is because this is still peer-to-peer, that when lenders could see a repayment rate, they’re more open to increasing the LTV of an asset. So a lot of times you’ll have someone that says, well, if this is peer-to-peer and the assets, you know, has to be, it’s already under collateral, who cares about the repayment rate? But actually it does matter, right? If if you said, hey, I’m, I want $100,000 loan, the lender says, OK, I’ll give you 50,000.
24:06 But he sees that your repayment rate is 98% and you say, OK, you know what, let’s counter. Let’s be that 70,000 much more open to doing that loan. The other part just to highlight the repayment rate in this industry and we talk about this thing of like, oh, digital assets collapsing and they’re not worth what they used to be. 92 percent, 92% of users that borrow against these assets pay back their loan, which tells you that the asset is worth something. No one is going to lose the asset.
24:41 So about 8% of bars default on that side of things. These are all term loans, so we never do forced liquidations or anything like that.
24:50 Brian Rose: Interesting. Interesting. Now, how much of your day is spent focusing on the borrowers versus the lenders and are they very different types of people?
25:00 July Grullon: Yeah.
25:00 So our, you know, our business development team is, you know, I would say they’re, they’re working on these things equally, right, where we’re contacting borrowers, contacting lenders and a lot of times we’re working to get them in our network. And I, I think this is like pretty insane, but like when we were first building this, what we realize is that our competition manually was contacting these users the same way we’re recruiting, right users. And they still do that because they have no data and there’s no way to create like borrowing opportunities, lending opportunities. So the minute we get them in our system, the magic, everything starts there.
25:44 We just got to get them in right? And that’s what our BD team is very focused on where a lot of the folks that are in our space, they have to almost have a manual dialogue for every transaction and and we don’t see that as a scalable option. I think they’ve done a great job. They’ve grown the space, you know, to to new heights, but that’s not scalable to reaching that $100 billion marking loans.
26:13 Brian Rose: OK, So your stuff is all automated. OK.
26:16 And that’s, that’s super important. And so I come in, you plug in the asset, you can evaluate it, you can start going back and forth and then decide if you want to do it. You don’t need like somebody get on the phone.
26:28 July Grullon: No, no, yeah, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll connect to netti worth or any of our partners that are using our infrastructure and you’ll get barring and lending alerts, you know, starting in day one and, and you could assess you could say, hey, you know what this makes a lot of sense. I have $5000 that’s just sitting in my wallet. I could lend this out at around 20% APR. The, you know, the bar has to pay me back in 15 days. You know, it, it makes sense to put my crypto to work right? And, and I think the part that we’re excited about is that someone in Argentina is going to be able to earn money on their crypto just like someone in Japan, and we’re the ones powering that.
27:06 Right, because it’s no longer about the person or the country or the location, it’s about the asset, which is what lending should be based on.
27:13 Brian Rose: You know, it’s, it’s interesting because I teach D Fi to my Academy and you know, the concept is interesting and my students plug in and they go to Ave. and it’s really interesting. Then I say, what’d you get? And they’re like, well, I got like .5% annual. And then they realize how much that is every few days. And then they, their heart sinks and they think, well, I’m not going to be doing this.
27:31 And for many people, that’s their only option, but they they can’t come in and say, well, what if I want to, you know, increase my risk, increase my return? And I want to see it a bunch of variety of ways I could make money. And that’s what you can bring to people.
27:46 July Grullon: Exactly. So what we’re noticing is that lenders that were in the traditional defy space is moving on to the digital asset because of the yield the the amount that you’re earning.
27:56 I had this one lender where he was saying hey July if if if someone has an auto glyph which is around 200,000 or let’s say a crypto punk 100K. He’s like I will lend a 60% all day to these assets. Now why if that bar defaults you could go sell that in the open market for around a 928080 to 92% like instant loan like right on the offer. So they make their big money when the user defaults.
28:27 Brian Rose: Interesting. So if they pay back the loan, they’re still getting better yield than going to Abe.
28:35 July Grullon: And if they default many times, that’s where the the lenders hit like the jackpot.
28:40 Brian Rose: OK, so let’s dig into this. Let’s say I come in and I’m like, all right, I got 5000 separate. I want to get some decent returns on this. I lend it out, the borrower defaults. Is there a smart contract in there that’ll deliver that asset into my wallet so I can liquidate it?
28:55 July Grullon: Yeah.
28:55 So you could claim it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the minute they default, you could go to net worth, claim the asset and transfer right to your wallet. So we take care of all of that. And one of the cool things that we build is we build a receipt for the bar to, to identify, hey, I took out this loan and promissory notes for the lenders. So in the future, we also see a world where a lender has has about 10 outstanding loans and he can repackage all these loans to an institution or to another person.
29:26 Brian Rose: OK, right.
29:27 Or resell them on to someone. Else
29:29 July Grullon: exactly.
29:29 Brian Rose: OK. You said the magic word institutions right now you’re peer-to-peer on this platform at one point. Do you believe institutions will come in and start, I’m guessing lending and what type of institutions do you think will be the first?
29:42 July Grullon: Yeah. I think, I think first of all, that’s a great question. I think we’re, we’re about two years out on the digital side of things and RWA where, where it’s going to get serious, because I think what’s going to happen is there’s going to be billions of dollars being traded on a peer-to-peer side. And then institutions are like, all right, hold on, guys, we’re we got to come in, which is the same story of like Bitcoin, right? Like, you know, Bitcoin hits 17,000.
30:07 All right now. Now let’s start looking at this, right? And so I think it, it’s still some time there, but I do think that it’s going to be on commodities and real estate. I think that’s going to be the major push there. I don’t know how much they’re going to dominate once like, you know, family offices get involved and all that, right? Because it’s like what prevents, you know, certain family offices to say, hey, you know, we’re going to put 100,000,200 million here on the lending side.
30:43 But yeah, I think, I think 2 two to five years is going to be the time where institutions are 100% in the game. Like they’re like, hey, we’re not dismissing digital assets RW as, or anything like that. And yeah, I, I think that’s that’s about the right time frame. Because you’re really going into their market. You know, I mean, these institutions have been borrowing and lending money for, you know, hundreds of years and now you’re doing it in this new asset class in Web 3.
31:09 Brian Rose: It seems that once you’re successful with it, they’re going to want a a piece of that.
31:14 July Grullon: Yeah. And and they could hopefully buy more of our tokens that will come out in the future.
31:19 Brian Rose: I want to talk about the token for sure, you know, when it comes to kind of these these assets and these institutions that you know, might even come in and loan. How much work do you think that say Black Rocks doing with their Biddle system with RWA and Franklin Temple them with their model of putting like securities on chain and things like that? Is that really helping get these institutions all around comfortable, you know, with digital assets and in the future lending against those?
31:48 July Grullon: Yeah, I think, I think it’s phase one, right? Because it’s, it’s really like where should they start? And it’s already an arena where they’re already participating in. And I think it makes a lot of sense for them to look at that, right? And I think again, as these institutions become how you said more familiar, the more comfortable and new markets emerge, that’s where they’re going to open their eyes and say, well, we’re already participating here.
32:16 We might as well do XYZ,
32:17 Brian Rose: OK, right. I think that. I think that’s how. You know, we got 2 stablecoin acts going through Congress right now and the word is that could one of them could be signed by August. We’ll see.
32:26 But the Bank of America president said when that happens, I’m going to issue the Bank of America stablecoin. Now people forget the stablecoin is the original RWA, right? It really is. And I’m telling my students in my investor group this all the time. I mean, that’s mind boggling that, you know, B of A might have their own stablecoin and all of a sudden, you know, you might have a bank account that’s on the blockchain and you can’t, you know, and once they’re comfortable with that, it seems like the next step would be loaning against, you know, digital assets like your platform does.
32:54 Do you see that the same way? And how do you feel about that legislation? And can you really see banks issuing stable coins and those being available in your bank account? Seems like alternative reality.
33:08 July Grullon: Yeah, I think, I think the end user won’t really see the difference, OK, right. Because I think if you look at like today, most people’s like, I think most folks don’t understand how money moves and they just view their money already being digital. So I think for the end user, I don’t think they’ll be much of a difference.
33:29 I think on the banking side, obviously we know the reasons, right, more efficient, the ability to move capital, how it’s shown on a Ledger, all these other, you know, pieces of technology that Web 3 provides. But I think to the end user, they won’t see much of a difference. And it’s really about how the bank adds to their current services, right? Because I feel like how we were just, you know, touching on loans. I think the traditional model of how banking is doesn’t actually serve most, most folks. I mean, even business folks that are like moving millions of dollars that you’re like, hold on, why is it taking 5 days? What do you mean?
34:15 You don’t know where, when, when it clears, right? Like even that concept. So I think like once they’re on chain and let’s say they’re doing everything, let’s say was stable, then it becomes how do they actually evolve to participate, participating in a world that’s completely different than where they were before? Because if not, there’s going to be multiple players here that are going to start eating into their revenue model, right? Of what they had, right? It’s, it’s a very, you know, I call it like dinosaur age type of tech and service.
34:54 And I think that’s the part where the bank is not understanding web three. It doesn’t allow you to the current model doesn’t allow you to serve your users, right? And, and I think that’s a big point, right? Like how many folks are like I, I want a business loan and I go to the bank. What business loan could you get? You can’t get there’s no business. There’s no business loans, right? I remember in 2008 I had top tier credit and I go to get a motorcycle and they were like, hey, right now lending is pretty tight.
35:29 So the bank wants you to put 40% down on a motorcycle and I’m like 40% down have tier one credit. What do you mean that the bank is, is tight right now, right? I I just think that yeah, the, the current model and the way it’s been serving users for the past 2530 years, it just doesn’t work. Right, just doesn’t work.
35:50 Brian Rose: Or not serving them. Yeah, not serving.
35:53 Them also, what about that lower tier of people you mentioned Argentina, but what about, you know, the Western Union crowd? You know, there’s a really underserved and some would say exploited, you know, group of people that payday loans and Western Union people where they’re paying these extremely high rates where if you put all that data on chain, I’m sure you wouldn’t, couldn’t justify. I’m sure there would be middle men would come in that would want to loan at lower rates and give better options for these whole businesses that are set up around that asymmetry of information or access.
36:27 Do you think that’s something that you guys will help contribute to in the future as well?
36:34 July Grullon: Absolutely. I think any. I think the way we view NettyWorth is really from a financial service side of things where the future is like endless where we could go with this, whether it’s loans on invoices, right, or a new era of like payday loans, right, with much better rates for people and genuinely helping them, right. And I, I do think I do see a world where our services just continuously expands on that side of things.
37:06 And I do think other players are going to come in and affect the traditional banking system because of this, right? It, it just doesn’t work. And again, the, the part that I’m excited for is more lenders participating from all over the world, from all types of economic classes, because this is just going to make capital cheaper, you know, and I, and I think that’s the, the, the big effect of crypto and what we’re doing that ends up having an, A massive network effect.
37:34 Right. There’s no longer some gatekeeper in a banking sector that can kind of determine the rates. Now they’re determined by the market and individuals and a whole host of people all over the world.
37:44 Brian Rose: Yeah, that’s, that’s powerful. Tell me about your tech because you mentioned, you know, if the guy defaults, I can go claim the asset.
37:50 It goes to my wallet. How important is your tech to be robust and how can I trust your tech and is that a big issue for your customers or not?
38:00 July Grullon: Yeah. So everything is done on chain with our smart contract. So think of it again, once you’re borrowing against an asset, it goes into escrow, pay back the loan, you you get back your asset, if not the lender, claim it and keep it.
38:17 Yeah. So basically everything is done on chain on a smart contract. Netany Worth has no access to any of this, right? So we’re not touching any of the funds. We’re not doing any of that.
38:28 And we’re never touching the asset itself. And and then we have to go through an audit process, right? So there’s incredible companies out there. We’ve had two audits. And you know, in the future, we’ll have hundreds of more audits, right?
38:43 Multiple times a year, we’ll end up having audits. And you know, basically what that’s doing is basically saying, hey, how secure is this smart contract, right? And we know that, right? We’re also operating in a space that is constantly evolving. And This is why we just have to continuously stay on top of our audits and what we’re doing.
39:03 And every version of the platform has to be audited. But most, I would say most users, that’s not a concern because they’re already familiar with the way like on chain activity already works. And I, and I also think that like our goal is to, to really remove that friction of like, is this safe or not? And a lot of it is by trust. Like we’re, you know, all of us are very public, right?
39:32 So like everyone knows me on Twitter, everyone knows me on LinkedIn, everyone knows my face, right? The team members as well. Like, we’ve been in the community for 5-6 years, so
40:46 It’s not something that we’re like hiding or anything or remaining anonymous on that side. So I think it’s trust, right? So hey, these guys been in the space for 5-6 years. They’ve been building for two to three years. They’re very public, right?
41:00 Like when we build, we’ve had issues where like, you know, a user is like, hey, this part of the of the platform is not working for me. And he’s like, wow, the team is like responding to me, helping me, you know, and all that. I think all of that builds trust. And especially once someone uses it and they know that you have a support team there for them, they’re just going to keep coming back.
41:21 Brian Rose: Yeah, I can’t emphasize how important it is that you guys are public and you’ve got real names and real faces. And look, it’s happening less in Web 3, but you know, there’s still projects out there where there are people have NF TS profile pictures and they’ve got funny names and you know, and I don’t play any of that stuff, you know, and it really is important.
41:41 I think it’s really that it’s that abstract value people don’t talk about where there’s that whole trust system behind you and you’re in the States, which I want to I want to talk about what that’s been like because you guys push ahead in a space that wasn’t always friendly from a regulatory point of view and also still, you know, lack some clarity. All that seems like we’re going to a good place. I want to ask you about that, but I first want to ask you about the Neti token because you talked about that.
42:04 And this is really important because your business is on the blockchain, which is incredible. But now you’re going to introduce a token. Now you can do this right and you can do this wrong. And one of the things I always ask our portfolio companies when they come talk to us is why do you need a token? And, you know, there’s people out there that really generate incredible tokens with great tokenomics and great utility and great demand infrastructure.
42:30 And there’s people that just throw them out in the winds in order to raise money. I know you’ve thought deeply about this. And the token is yet to be generated. Talk to me about how you get your head around how to create the right token.
42:43 July Grullon: Yeah, I think the story of the token really starts back.
42:46 It goes back to the product, right? So a lot of folks that are releasing tokens, I believe that they’re either releasing them too early or they’re releasing them for the anticipation of building something, which I think is totally wrong. I think because we have fundamentally a real business model where we’re processing loans. We’re taking a fee for every loan we process. And basically, as again, loan demand rises, it will actually serve a big benefit to have a token on that side to reward users.
43:21 So one of the things that we’re looking at is rewarding users for borrowing lending, which has been done, but one of the new models is rewarding users for paying back their loans on time, right? This is something completely off, you know, where, you know, most D5 companies haven’t even participated in. And then there’s other elements that we’re looking together with some incredible teams from TD5 with Outlier Ventures really working on, on this token model even to the point of possibly staking earning a yield from that, that could end up providing additional liquidity into the network. These things we are looking at and how the model will work. But the number one thing that we’re focused on is the business side, how the company generates its revenue, which is again charging a fee per every loan and then distributing that back to the community and the token holders, rewarding users for borrowing, lending, paying back their tokens and also staking and building on top of the network, right? And I think that’s another part where a lot of folks fail is you, you build something, you have demand for it, but it’s almost like what’s next.
44:41 And a lot of times companies, you know, they might go up, but they, they might flat line where with us we see there’s, I mean the opportunity of lending. Two years ago a digital assets was around 1.5 billion today is 5 billion. This, this market will go into around 10 to 15 billion over the next two to three years. The RWA side now represents multi trillion dollar market, right? And the token side is already a $50 billion market.
45:14 So when you’re looking at all this as far as like what is the potential of netti worth and market share ability, I mean, it’s, it’s enormous. It’s, it’s not something that we’re even close to touching what’s on the surface. Even if right now we had 98% of market share, it still wouldn’t be what’s coming, right?
45:35 Brian Rose: Right. And you want people to build on your infrastructure?
45:39 July Grullon: Yeah. So we want folks that are tokenizing assets that are working very hard on that side of things to use Neti worth for them to launch their own loan marketplace. And the reason that’s so important is, you know, over the last two to three years, bunch of VCs were, you know, backing all these companies to tokenize assets. But there was one element that they forgot how do these companies generate revenue? And what we do is we enable, we unlock that part of their business in minutes. So folks that are tokenizing gold, folks that are tokenizing Pokémon cards, folks that are tokenizing collectible cars, real estate can now say, hey, I don’t have to build this front end, back end system.
46:28 I also don’t have to go through the audit process, right? And I, I also don’t have to build the technology that’s going to power my marketplace for the years to come. I could partner with Nettiworth. It’s not going to cost me anything, right? And basically, I could start providing loans or the ability for users to borrow and lend in 24 hours. And that’s one of the biggest value props that I feel like that we’re offering to these dabs in the Web 3 space. And again, the way we see ourselves is, yeah, we’re providing financial services, serving as an aggregator again, but our goal is to have 500, you know, Daps using our infrastructure for borrowing and lending that’s ultimately being processed under our technology.
47:20 Brian Rose: OK. And that’s all about business development and also building a great system with users and showing people.
47:28 July Grullon: Exactly. Exactly. OK.
47:29 Brian Rose: The token itself, right now your system works without it. Do you need it to be issued soon? What are the plans for generating it, etcetera?
47:39 July Grullon: Yeah. So our goal is to launch a token in Q3 to Q4 of this year. We believe that the token is needed again because it incentivizes the community and the participation and creates a network effect.
47:52 And, and we think that basically by having the, the token there, we could scale way past what we were imagining, right? Because, you know, again, someone that’s barring and lending against real estate or a gaming asset or going back to like a digital collectible, all these users earning rewards and being able to use our infrastructure where they’re benefiting from or they could earn yield additional yields from it. I think it serves the community much, much better. OK.
48:25 Brian Rose: Talk to me about the jitters of issuing the token and maybe some of the people you’re working with, because it’s hard enough to build a startup. It’s hard enough to build a startup in Web 3 in the crypto markets that are so volatile. But then when you actually try to get your head around a token, a token is so complex and you know, all the market manipulation and things that can happen. I mean, it’s, it’s such a tall order to ask a founder to have all those things on his mind and execute.
48:52 And sometimes it’s poor token execution that kills a great company with a great team and a great idea and great customers. And I’m wondering how you get your head around that. You know when it when it’s coming up and thinking about.
49:07 July Grullon: It, yeah, I think it’s working with great folks that have tremendous experience around tokenomics, token engineering on that side. But I also think that, you know, this is so important, the folks that are going to build regardless of the price of the token, right?
49:24 So we’re here to stay and we’re here to build. And over the next 10-15 years, you know, so the way we look at it is we’re going to do all the right things to incentivize the community, the participation, the ecosystem, but we also want to make sure that we’re not like living or dying based on our token. Because the value of netti worth over the next decade is, you know, it’s something so, so you know, so big that looking at, you know, a very micro price is, is or, you know, condition or market, it’s not going to serve someone that’s like, Hey, I understand where this market is going over the next three 5-10 years, right on that side.
50:18 We’ve all seen it. We’ve seen great companies, even in the traditional world where they crush it in earnings and product is great and they’re shipping everything right. And someone looks at it and says, wow, their stock is down. And it’s like, whoa, did other factors affect it? And, and that’s the truth, right?
50:39 So obviously we want to release our token with better conditions, better clarity around, you know, all these things, you know, specifically even in the US but we want to make sure that we’re building regardless of the micro condition of the token.
50:53 Brian Rose: Yeah, so important. You know, when we were talking off camera before, you know, you were talking about how you build regardless, you know, and you keep a lean team and we’ve seen most of the big successes in Web 3 and maybe even in Defy. They built through those bear markets. They built when nobody wanted to talk about it, when Bitcoin was at 16,000, when all their relatives thought they were, you know, working in the scam industry and they powered through.
51:20 And that’s one of the reasons you see them with the billion dollar plus valuations today. And that’s your mindset.
51:28 July Grullon: Yeah, I remember when, you know, so I was, I was an executive at a fintech company and I stepped away from that to build NettyWorth. And I remember walking in the parking lot with my spouse and I said what I’m about to build next will be the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. And I knew it. I think I was very honest with myself. So I knew, I guess that dark path of what I was about to go into.
51:57 And I just replayed that of like, this is supposed to be hard and very few people are going to end up doing this and most of it is going to be folks that are genuinely doing it for the right reasons, you know, and in regards to that, it’s like an actual business, not like just an idea. And, and, and if you have the right partners, London Real, a bunch of our, our, the VCs that are backing us and they understand the vision, I think it’s just about taking the next step forward, right? Like next step, right?
52:39 Because as, as ACEO, all I do is turn fires off, right? Like, and so I, I look at it like that, like I know what we’re building is important and to better understand it is someone is going to process half a trillion dollars of loans. It’s just who’s going to do it, and I think that is the motivating factor of why we are going to continuously be part of this game right on there because ultimately it’s going to happen, you know?
53:13 Brian Rose: What’s it been like to build in the United States when we had very unclear regulatory environment versus now where it seems to be clearing up every day or we seem to be really going into a very pro crypto, pro blockchain, you know, pro on chain asset world.
53:34 What’s happened like because you really have to straddle those things. And I don’t think people globally understand how you have to be very careful about what you say, even the wording you use about your company in the past. And has that changed significantly now and what do you think that’s going to do in the next year or two?
53:52 July Grullon: Yeah, I think, I think it’s, it was definitely challenging. I would say from from an investment side of things like getting venture capital to come in, especially like when we started building, like we started building when everything was crashing.
54:06 Brian Rose: So 22 you were building.
54:08 July Grullon: Yeah, yeah, we started that’s that was our start time. And and it was like, you know, it went from funds that were like, hey, we’re we’re pro crypto to we’re anti crypto, right? And and then like as fraud was hitting the market, this was making it even tougher, right, for folks that were actually building. And then, you know, all the regulatory issues on there. So I think, I think it was very tough to build and specifically due to the past administration that was so anti crypto, right? And I think I think folks need to understand that regardless of like parties, crypto will ultimately help serve all economic classes.
54:56 And I think once people understand that, like, like it’s, it’s not, it’s, it’s almost like cryptos for the people, right? And if, if you’re anti crypto, you’re almost anti people right on that side. But yes, it was, it was very difficult. I think things are definitely changing. I, I think even even from investment side, even in the US, things open back up. They’re very right.
55:23 We’re pro investments, but yeah, it was it was very difficult during that time.
55:27 Brian Rose: I think July, it’s important what you said, because we don’t want crypto to become a partisan issue. And there are people in DC that want to make it a partisan issue. And look, I had a couple brief forays in politics running for Mayor of London, and I learned about politics. And what people do sometimes is they grab an issue because it has an emotional reaction in people and they use it as an issue to get votes or to remove votes from the other party.
55:53 They might not even care about the issue. They use it as a weapon. And I won’t name names, but it seems like certain people do that with crypto. And unfortunately everybody lose this when that happens. And so one of the things I’ve been really positive to see happening in Washington is they spent, you know, they said, OK, let’s spend 6 months here creating all of the the rules and, and the stablecoin acts and let’s get both parties involved.
56:15 So this doesn’t just get reversed in two years or three years or this doesn’t become a political football. Because you’re right, if people can just take a deep breath and step back, it’s good for everyone, you know?
56:27 July Grullon: Oh, absolutely. I, I definitely don’t believe it that it should represent a party or anything like that, because it’s really serving, you know, society as a whole, right? That’s like, that’s like picking like which parties for healthcare or not. Like it just doesn’t even make any sense on that side of things.
56:44 Brian Rose: Yeah, I hope people are starting to see that talk about, you know, go to market strategies. You’re looking I think to partner with like Daps and marketplaces, but how do you really get this product in front of everyone else? There’s a lot of noise in crypto and crypto is a lot about marketing as we know. You know, if you can, I don’t even say it’s 80 to 90% marketing, maybe it used to be. I do think in the long run, you know, utility makes a difference. If you look at our portfolio, it’s like 98% great utility companies like you guys.
57:12 But the market is weird and fickle and emotional. How do you start to show people who you are?
57:19 July Grullon: Yeah. I think it’s, it’s focusing on our core users, right. And and I think that’s the beginning part of it, right? So like we’re very focused on users that are ready on chain that already have assets, that have assets they could borrow or lend on.
57:39 And our main thing is constantly communicating with them how we do it. It’s our secret, one of our secret sauce because one of the things to highlight defy companies are not allowed to advertise, right. So this is one of the one of the things that we’ve been doing like a really great job with our BD team. But yeah, our main thing is making sure that we’re contacting the right people to serve them because how you said Web 3:00, there’s a lot of noise and people could get lost in like trying to speak to everyone versus the folks that could use their their platform. Only 3% of Web 3 users use D5 which is crazy crazy. I think there’s around 570
59:08 Million crypto users and only 3% of that are in D5. Our goal is to increase that number because we think that we believe that users would use D5 more if it was easier, it was simplified and it was brought to them versus them going to D5 platforms, right, right. And and I and I think that’s where we’re going to have a big effect. So really in our go to market strategy is making sure that we’re contacting the right people, not wasting any time and making sure that you know, they’re burning issue their fire that they need to solve, which is I need liquidity or I need to earn more that we’re serving them. Other parts of how we’re scaling, we’re working on a bunch of content constantly making sure that we’re updating our community with what we’re working on. And we’re also hosting IRL events in San Francisco. I would say at this point monthly where we’re getting 2300 folks coming in, whether they’re developers or even asset holders themselves.
1:00:31 And this is how we’ve actually built a lot of our partnerships through there. We also travel around the world to all the major crypto conferences, meet companies from different places, Argentina, Brazil, Egypt, Israel, right? And and if they’re tokenizing an asset, we, you know, they could potentially be partners with us. So all these elements we’re definitely working on as part of our go to market. But I think the most important thing is that we, we, I have identified our users and are very laser focused to make sure that we’re speaking to them. OK.
1:01:08 Brian Rose: And it’s is it not legal to advertise in defy like in America right now or how is?
1:01:14 July Grullon: That yeah, I think Google, Twitter, cross social platforms and all that. So most defy companies are are really going to struggle to grow because there’s no outlet for them to reach new users. And, you know, this is one of the parts of, like, my background being a marketing director at a fintech company where it’s like, OK, let’s look at this from a complete different angle and understand, you know, where users live and what are they doing and how do we get to them right on that side of things.
1:01:50 Brian Rose: You mentioned Silicon Valley.
1:01:52 Talk to me about this choice because you’re a New Yorker, you move out there to create the company there. We don’t see that many crypto companies in that area. You know, we see a lot of tech and AI. We see crypto companies in Miami, some in New York and then obviously distributed around the world. What’s that journey been like for you?
1:02:11 I know you’ve put a lot of effort into building that community and doing these in the in real life events, which is huge, but what’s that like? And then what’s the what’s the stigma like when you meet someone at a coffee and you tell them you’re in crypto And has that changed as well? But yeah, what’s that whole experience been like? And why move out there too?
1:02:30 July Grullon: Yeah, so, so one of our first advisors was YC alumni had a nice exit with MasterCard.
1:02:35 He was one of the Co founders of Arcus. And Y CS, Y Combinator, the very famous incubator accelerator that launched so many big companies like Airbnb, etcetera. So his his first advice was, hey, I think what you guys are building is incredible, but I think you need to go to Silicon Valley, right? And that was the first time I heard it. Then Michael had a video also from YC and said being in San Francisco is like being in the major leagues and every other place is like the miners.
1:03:10 You don’t know how good you are until you go there. And, and you know, I ended up, you know, me and my spouse ended up moving there a year and a half ago and 100% has been the best decision I’ve ever done for the business. It was a big change because I’m a native New Yorker, right? Like it’s hard to say, hey, not only am I leaving my career position to build this, but I’m also going to invest all my money into this and I’m also going to relocate, right? So ended up moving and I’ll tell you some of the reasons why it was so impactful. You know, we ended up moving and what, you know, over the last 18 months, what has blown up AI and we were always doing machine learning in the back end.
1:04:02 So now we’re in a in a area where the greatest AI machine learning engineers in the world are there and we’re building a web three company with AI machine learning, right? It is just like amazing, right? To like for that to just happen and the level of talent, the brains, the, the, the, the, the resources and the experience is second to none. Like it’s, it’s incredible. And we’ve been building again, doing the IRL events, getting folks to participate there.
1:04:41 I would say San Francisco is more open than what most people think to web three. They do have a culture of Web three there and it’s growing, but I think it’s growing with real companies. I think San Francisco is not the place where, hey, I have a Web three idea, but I don’t know how it makes money. I, I think that’s the difference of San Francisco. If, if, if you’re working on infrastructure, institutional type of tools, San Francisco will serve there. I think New York was just very traditional finance, even though it’s growing in the, in the Web 3 and crypto side of things, but I think innovation still comes from Silicon Valley. I, I, I, I truly believe that on that side. And, and I’ll tell you a quick story. I, I know one of the best D5 guys over there and we’re working on a product, one of our features. And I said, hey, I know you’re one of the best guys. Talk to me about your experience and all that. And it was like, we went out to get some pizza. It cost $4050.
1:05:58 The level of knowledge, experience, he said, all right, when you guys are building this, this is what’s going to be the issue. This is why I wouldn’t do this. This is why I would do that. And the ability to just have that part of a ecosystem and community where we’re all helping each other. I mean, it’s incredible.
1:06:16 Actually. The introduction to to you guys and netti worth came from someone in San Francisco.
1:06:23 Brian Rose: Wow. OK, OK, so it really is the major leagues.
1:06:27 July Grullon: Yeah, yeah.
1:06:28 And it, it allowed, you know, one of the, the biggest things is I’m, I’m very honest with myself in my right strengths, weaknesses and all that. And one of the biggest things of going there was I actually also wanted to see how good we were and, and were we ahead of the pack? And you can’t hide there. You can’t. You can’t. There’s no faking it there.
1:06:56 And as we were building and as we were going live and as we were talking to users and as we were talking to more advisors and folks, it hit where it was like, listen, what you guys are building a special. This is not just an idea, it’s a business. It it, it actually serves a market and it’s real. And a lot of that maybe I needed to go through that experience to also say, all right, it like I’m already doing crazy stuff. Is it worth it?
1:07:27 Right? Like, am I, am I the right guy for this? At the end, as confident as I am, I needed to check myself and say OK, yes, we’re we’re going in the right direction.
1:07:37 Brian Rose: That’s powerful because you’re swimming with the big fish, you know, guys with big exits, guys that see pitches all the time and companies and they can see through somebody who’s just really talking it right. And they’re look, and these are people that are looking for.
1:07:52 Yeah. Where is that end goal? How are you going to get to, you know? I mean, unicorns are old news, right? It’s Deca and beyond, right? It really is the major leagues, right? And that that whole culture, I mean that VC was built in that city.
1:08:06 You know a. Lot of people don’t understand that, you know, this industry is, is not that old, it’s 80 years old or so, but it all came out of that area, you know, and I, I think people just maybe think different over there.
1:08:21 July Grullon: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think there’s, you know, a 16 always says this, that like there’s not distractions in, in, in, in the Valley, right? Or in SF So there’s very little distraction. No one drinks alcohol there.
1:08:36 The nightlife ends at 8:00 PM It’s a beautiful city with greenery, right, with natural elements. And it’s like, what do you do? You work, right. And, and, and I do think that it hits it, you know, like we go out to like lunch or dinner with friends and it’s Saturday. And guess what we’re all talking about?
1:09:00 Well, what are you working on? What, what can I help you with? And it’s, it’s literally founders. That’s all. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a city that’s just, we’re filled with startups.
1:09:10 Brian Rose: Wow, that’s powerful. What would you say besides TGE is your single biggest challenge for the next 12 months? What’s the one thing on your list that if you crack that you think you’ll have a huge push forward?
1:09:21 July Grullon: Getting more liquidity providers to come on board and become partners with neti worth. I think that’s the biggest thing because again, there’s a high yield opportunity.
1:09:30 The more liquidity we’re providing, the fastest we can get more users aborted and provide them access to capital. And I think that’s the biggest thing of how we’re going to get anywhere from processing, you know, a few $1,000,000 in loans to a hundred 500 million in loans.
1:09:50 Brian Rose: OK. And then that comes down to business development, marketing, everything. You’re kind of working. Tell me about you personally like 5 years from now. What do you want this to look like?
1:10:04 July Grullon: Yeah, I, I think the biggest thing is building a company where it goes past what my dreams were, which was originally like, hey, I just want people to lend against their digital assets.
1:10:18 And, and I think that if, if I was to say, hey, what would I want is, is lending against assets that I’m not even thinking about yet. I think that would be like super interesting and expanding the financial services that we’re providing. Obviously we’re, we’re doing borrowing and lending. We have a Neti score system and you know, these dapps could use our APISDK. But I, I do see that there’s an ability to go even pass the borrowing and lending and the the credit rating system and continuously provide additional financial services all around crypto and not just borrowing and lending.
1:11:01 Brian Rose: And is this ultimately something that probably gets acquired in the next five years?
1:11:07 July Grullon: Yeah. I, I think that’s something that we’re going to have to look at. And I would say with advisors, our investment team and all that because there there is an area here where token does very well. Community continues to build, but because the fundamentals of it being a real business model, I think we collectively could decide, hey, do we run this ourselves all the way up as you know as high as we want or do we merge and create something even bigger than what we’re thinking about?
1:11:40 I think if the opportunity is to scale beyond something that we’re even looking at, I think that’s always open for our partners and, and for me. But yeah, I, I, I think the, the part that makes me excited is that Netti worth could potentially, you know, not go through a serious around the funding because I’m excited on how fast we could get to profitability.
1:12:06 Brian Rose: That’s pretty exciting.
1:12:08 July Grullon: Yeah, that’s the, that’s the part. That doesn’t happen in Silicon Valley that quickly typically.
1:12:15 Brian Rose: And you are you. Do you see yourself as web three forever at this point in in like the rest of your career life? Is this something that really attracts you or is it really up in the air?
1:12:29 July Grullon: Yeah, no, I I actually think that it’s, it’s almost, it’s almost like AII think AI and Web 3 will fundamentally be part of nearly every business. And I think I think most folks that are outside of our industry should wake up to that. You know, like folks that are like, oh, it’s not AIAI will be part of everything that we do.
1:12:54 So I think this is my passion, right? So I’ve always been into assets, collecting and owning and owning things that are rare. So this was like a dream come true of blockchain, right? And so, so I think it’s something that I, I, I should stay in forever, right, on that side of things. But yeah, you know, even digital assets, like I remember when I was younger, I was collecting baseball cards. So when digital assets, you’re right, the everything was on chain and folks were like, I don’t understand this. This could be copied.
1:13:33 And I don’t understand what a Fidenza. I understood it immediately. You, you can’t replicate a Mickey Mantle card just because you said you replicated it, right. And I think the confusion was that people felt that what one of them I could hold, the other I can’t. Well, how many people are walking around with their, with the title in their pocket, right? Like aren’t you requesting your title, right? Or when you pay off your loan?
1:13:59 So I, I just look at some of these things that are, it’s just evolving. But I definitely think at an early age, because I was into collecting and then throughout the years got into like Motorsports and different type of assets. I understood assets on chain much faster and easier than most people started getting the concept around it. And that for me was the exciting part, right? The company’s name is called Netti Worth for your net worth, right?
1:14:32 Not lending, right? But it’s for your net worth. And the goal is for us to help you understand your net worth and for you to access capital with that.
1:14:41 Brian Rose: OK. And one point I want to just pay attention to, you said AI and Web three are going to change the world. I just wonder if you could clarify that because I’m sure AI is all the buzz where you live and it’s a big buzz around the world.
1:14:54 But a lot of people purely in AI don’t understand why the Web three could be a big component of it. Now the Web three people say all of those microtransactions between all the AI agents, this is the only way to do it because an AI can’t get a bank account. But in crypto, it’s a way of really keeping track of things. Also, you know, provenance of the data, There’s all these other aspects. But I’m curious how you explain that to people, why that’s so important that that marriage of those two?
1:15:21 July Grullon: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think, you know, if you, if you look at again, Web 3 being transparent public Ledger and I think using the power of AI, how how you were mentioning and having the ability to automate financial transaction, if you look at Web 3, it’s predominantly financial, right? It almost like it’s like a perfect match in heaven, right? It’s like it, it, it just works, right. So, so I think, I think it’s at a basic level, it’s that is you could have a bunch of AI technology for the traditional world and it’s, it’s almost going to work.
1:16:03 Like the way I see it is AI with finance needs to be in the web 3 space. And then AI for creativity and tools and writing and maybe coding or anything like that or, you know, helping, assisting language, all these areas. That’s where it will serve the web two world. Because again, how does AI serve a web two world? In what way in transaction, in maybe in accounting, that’s about it. So I think the, the, the big opportunity is that it is on the finance side of Web 3 being open, being an open Ledger and transacting.
1:16:46 Our ultimate goal is for your AI agent to facilitate the borrowing and lending right inside of neti worth. So these are things that’s not going to happen in the Web two world and it’s just the way things are on that side.
1:17:01 Brian Rose: OK. How can people start using neti worth either as a borrower or a lender? And how also can people learn more about the upcoming token?
1:17:10 All that stuff.
1:17:11 July Grullon: Yeah, yeah. So I would definitely just go to neti worth dot IO and we actually have you could sign up and right away you could get borrowing and lending alerts. And we have our our doc section that covers our tokenomics, our white paper, our revenue model, our technology, our audits and everything in between on that.
1:17:32 Brian Rose: OK. And can I plug my wallet in there and start to do things?
1:17:36 July Grullon: Yeah, yeah.
1:17:37 So the minute you create an account and you connect your wallet, you’ll get a netti worth, which is your total crypto and NFT value. And then throughout the week you will get borrowing and lending alerts on there. So that’s actually how the company started, which is a portfolio tracker. And This is why we were so big on data. But yeah, so there’s folks that come to net worth that IO just because they want to check their portfolio every week or get alerts on their portfolio.
1:18:03 And with that, we’re going to be sending you borrowing and lending alerts.
1:18:07 Brian Rose: And you guys have great real time data on that as well. And especially for those assets and those, you know what are illiquid assets where other platforms can’t put a value on it, you guys can do that.
1:18:17 July Grullon: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
1:18:18 We work really hard around getting the correct pricing on these assets because this is the same data that lenders are using to let.
1:18:24 Brian Rose: That’s powerful right there. So that’s kind of like a good kind of intro go on there, value that portfolio, and then you’ll start to see how you can really start leveraging, leveraging that. And so many people don’t. And again, like you said, a lot of folks in crypto right now, you know, they want to buy right now, for example, if they think the market’s going up.
1:18:42 But why? Why go find other capital when you actually are sitting on it? But you wouldn’t know you were sitting on it because there’s no one out there prepared to value your assets or even give you loans against that value. Powerful stuff, man. Look, I’m so, so happy to be partnered up with you guys. I still remember when you first came on the call with us, and it was just like, wow, I’m so glad someone’s doing this and you guys have the passion for it.
1:19:06 And you’d already built this portfolio tracker, and you can see this all going there in the future. And it’s also dovetailing perfectly with these big institutions, you know, like BlackRock and Franklin Templeton, putting assets on chain. I still have to pinch myself when I see the Bitcoin ETF and the Etherium ETF and the massive flows and the Bitcoin ticker on the front of the Wall Street Journal website. It’s like, what? And all these other ETFs coming and all this talk happening, it’s like actually happening.
1:19:36 And you guys are positioned perfectly to really take advantage of that. So yeah, we’re just really excited for this. And.
1:19:43 July Grullon: Thank you, thank you, man, Thank you, thank you. We’re super excited and very happy to have you as a partner very early on too. Like it’s still seeing like throughout the whole vision and everything.
1:19:55 Brian Rose: Yeah, well, it’s fantastic and you guys are going to keep building love the fact you’re in San Francisco as well and in the major leagues with the big boys. So looking forward to this people Co check it out. Netty work dot IO plug in start using it token. We’re thinking Q3Q4 and yeah man, onwards and upwards. So thanks for the time today.
1:20:13 July Grullon: Appreciate you last. Right, cool.
1:20:22 Brian Rose: And I just want to say thank you to Web Three TV. We will see you next time.
