Gordon Einstein - Crypto Lawyer of Dubai Tech Tuesdays: Why The West Is Dying & Why Dubai Is Thriving

Full transcript: Gordon Einstein on London Real

4:06 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Gordon Einstein, the crypto attorney, technologist and enterprise strategist. You are the Co founder of Crypto Law Partners and has spent the last decade guiding startups, enterprises, exchanges and Dows through the legal and regulatory crypto landscape. In 2014, you were captivated by Bitcoin and the philosophy behind it and quickly realized that while blockchain could solve many of the inefficiencies of traditional finance, it lacked A coherent legal framework to support real world adoption.

4:36 Since then, you’ve got an early stage crypto ventures to complex compliance and regulatory challenges while serving as a trusted advisor to governments and businesses worldwide. You’re also the founder of Dubai Tech Tuesday’s, a best in class weekly business and technology networking event that brings together leading visionaries, builders and innovators operating in the UAE. You ultimately believe that crypto isn’t just about money, it’s about freedom, transparency and rethinking the way we humans organize and define ourselves.

5:08 Gordon, welcome to London Real in Dubai.

5:11 Gordon Einstein: Brian, I’m honored to be on the show. And what an intro. What? What a man.

5:17 Brian Rose: So there you go.

5:18 Look, I want to jump in and I want to start with what I witnessed last night. I was at this beautiful restaurant called Bel Canto near the Dubai Opera House. There were 300 plus people there in this incredible environment where I guess people were networking, but they were more just kind of hanging out and enjoying themselves. There were things happening on stage and people talking about it. There were some high level local Emiratis that you were honoring. There was tech people.

5:46 There was a women’s chess club that was there and everyone’s dressed up and really enjoying themselves. And I’ll be honest with you, I’ve never seen anything like that in London or New York City or anywhere else really. I haven’t, not that vibe. And there were people I met there in the real estate business and there were other people in other businesses. And they’re like, we actually come here because it’s one of the few events where there’s all these different types of people, Europeans and Russians and Ukraine’s, and they’re all here. And it’s one of the better even events, not just tech events. And I’ve been to maybe six of them at this point. I know you’ve been doing 43 in a row

6:25 Gordon Einstein: 42. 42 was last night, but we have we have the next two on calendar already, OK.

6:30 Brian Rose: So yeah, I don’t think you’ve ever missed 1. You know, what’s a crypto lawyer doing with this, you know, meet up social event, you know, that’s become so huge. Can you just walk us through what the ethos is? Why you and how do you continue doing this tireless effort?

6:45 Gordon Einstein: OK, so I’m going to go deep.

6:47 Brian Rose: OK. So that’s why we’re here. Of course.

6:49 Gordon Einstein: Yeah. And I’m a big fan. I’ve seen you your shows for a long time. And I’m, you know, it’s kind of a surreal moment to be here with you in the interview context.

6:57 So I’m going to show this to my mom, who’s actually visiting from Los Angeles. Not very cool. So we’re excited to see it. OK, Why? Why do this in the 1st place? OK, so I, I’ve just a little personal. So I grew up with a lot of social anxiety and with a speech impediment.

7:14 And the way I dress both was rather than go hide in the corner, I went to the opposite extreme, which is organizing events and forcing myself on stage. It was like a big overcompensation thing. And part of the idea there was I would just rub that nerve to oblivion. So there was no longer a sensitive point. And so I, I’ve been to, you know, it’s it, I kind of got the strategy later, like in my 30s or something, but I, I started hosting events in Los Angeles.

7:42 I had a group called happy hour Mafia and we used to do different of every Fridays or every Thursdays, once per week, we do an event and it was always supporting charity. And you know, it’s a lot easier to talk to people if you’re the host, you know, you’re not, there’s a cluster people, you have a good reason to approach them. You can say, Hey, walk up to them and say, Hey, are you having a good time? How you doing? So that was my first experience putting events together.

8:04 And then when I, we can talk about this, when I switched back into the practice of law because of crypto and blockchain, it became necessary for me to work on my public speaking skills because I needed to advocate on behalf of this new kind of law. And so I would globe trot around the world on stage. I’m seeing, giving presentations, you know, doing. And you can see this on YouTube. I have a long track record.

8:24 And so I, I had to get over this speaking impediment. And then when I came to Dubai four years ago, Dubai, you know, Dubai is a place where if you’re bold and ethical and consistent, you can do well. And if you aren’t those things, you may do well for a minute, but then you’ll have issues. But I was very blessed in that when I came here four years ago, the within a week I was on stage working, helping people with their events. I’m seeing, I just volunteered.

8:48 I don’t charge, you know, I’m a lawyer, right? I don’t need to charge to help with this stuff. I just help. I’ve helped this community so much and build such a nice network from, from volunteering and just helping people out and being on stage just because I, I love it. And so past few years I, I started organizing my own things like these occasional lunches, crypto lunches or iftars. I’ve found a bunch of crypto iftars. But this last summer I was here, my lovely wife, who, you know, we found out we were pregnant.

9:16 And so the travelling was kind of a little bit lower. And you know, Dubai in the summer is a little challenging, but we kind of looked at each other and said, let’s start something new. So on July 2nd, 2024, we did Dubai Tech Tuesdays. You know, I, I figured I’d try it, right? We were at the door, which unfortunately has closed since that time.

9:37 But the very nice management just started it and it was successful right in the middle of summer. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. And so I’m a, I’m a big believer in taking action. Like I would say action is the killer app more than thinking, more than Shashi BT more than whatever you need to take action. You need to be consistent with your action. That’s the next stage of it, right? Because an action one time doesn’t mean anything. You have to keep on doing, doing, doing. So I’m a big believer in iterating quickly, being consistent, iterating every, you know, very fast, like you go to the gym once you have to keep on doing and be consistent with it or diet or whatever.

10:14 So we, I, I, I knew that the first ones would not be that great. And they’re, they’re actually OK. But I’m, you know, I guess I’m a little bit self critical, but every week we make it a little bit, a little bit better. And what you’re seeing now that we’re rounding up in our 40s is the result of a lot of work and a lot of improvement. So the format has been honed, the community has been honed, the venue has been honed, the people we let in have been honed.

10:39 The people we’ve decided not to invite in has been honed. It’s been an experience. And we’re very happy that you’re you’re joining us. And there’s a whole philosophy behind that we can get into, but there’s short. I was actually a little bit surprised by what you said because what in my mind, it’s a New York style networking event transplanted to Dubai or New York or Berlin style, which are my favorite cities. I’m a kind of a Berlin baby, right? So the idea of having a hip, but not obnoxious tech gathering, tech business gathering with a certain New York dress code and, and savoir faire, but having it here, not a not a not a crypto bro thing, not a stiff event where you know, that’s not my thing, that’s not my style.

11:22 And I don’t think maybe it’s not yours either, but it’s sort of like formal enough that good people come and business happens. You know, there’s a dress code, people dress nicely, the ladies are all in the cocktail, you know, outfits or business attires. You know, everyone dresses up, but it’s it’s not stiff, right? And we bring in a lot of elements and it’s like it’s like a goulash you. Know, no, I’d say it’s closer to New York than anything else. But also in New York, I don’t think you’d have that kind of interaction because that only, I think, happens in Dubai, where people want to help you and everyone feels like maybe they’re in a similar boat and things actually happen. That’s what I maybe remember.

11:57 I, I, I, I think that’s a perceptive comment. So, right, Dubai, I mean, you know, you always think of New York is like the immigrant city, but Dubai is the immigrant emirate or UAE is the immigrant country. And we’re, we’re 80 or 90% expatriates here. And it’s Switzerland like in the sense that wherever you’re from, whatever your local beef is, you’re supposed to leave it at the door or leave it at customs. And here you’re supposed to at least be polite to each other and ideally do business with each other. And there’s pros and cons to that. You know.

12:23 You know, as a politically aware person, sometimes I feel a little bit of internal tension. But I really like their ethic. And I think maybe Switzerland is straight from that ethic. The UAE has kept that ethic. And there’s something golden about it. So when you when you get all these different religions and all these different nationalities and all these, you know, men and women, everything in a room, having fun, being productive, it’s cool.

12:42 And you’re right, New York has a little bit of a biting edge to it. I don’t really mind it so much because I have a little bit of a biting edge, you know, and I, I kind of got that little New York thing, but you know, that doesn’t actually fly with everyone. Some people are just very nice and they’re not from that culture. So we, we, we keep it gentle. It’s a very family environment. You know, we’re, we’re up at, you know, my, my son is 3 months old and he was there yesterday.

13:01 So it’s hard to have a biting culture when you have a three month old baby walking around or being carried around.

13:07 Brian Rose: I want to go deeper on the UAE and, and what you see here as a country, as a culture for sure, but just like to, to finish up with last night, like the vibe of the event is important to address, like what you’re trying to create there. And So what I noticed is first of all, you want to make sure everybody introduces themselves. Everyone feels welcome to express who they are, even if they’re resisting you.

13:28 So you’re walking the mic and everyone interested, Everyone’s dressed up and I’m wondering why you do that. There’s at least 5050 men, women. Sometimes it seems like more women and the women sometimes come from fashion or the chess club or whatever and they’re in the cocktail dresses and enforces us guys to really step up our game. And it’s just a really kind of gives a little bit of electric vibe. It’s fun. You have someone on the stage to talk, but but everyone hasn’t have to be silent for the talk and it’s just kind of dynamic. So it’s not stuffy.

13:55 But also there’s always things happen. I always meet some interesting people there.

14:00 Gordon Einstein: So precept the comments. So it’s all by experiment and it’s all by design. And both things are true at once. It’s all by experiment and it’s all by design. OK, I, I knew from the beginning, well, I’ll take each element.

14:12 OK, Why have people dress up? You know, some people complained, some people get turned away and they get annoyed. Well, we’re, you know, we’re, it’s not crypto Tuesdays, it’s tech Tuesdays. It’s, it’s a tech and business event. OK, we’re in Dubai. This is a, in some ways a, a traditional culture. And you know, why are you here unless you want to enjoy the traditional culture.

14:31 What we, we, we want to have an environment where it’s not just the usual suspects, but you know, it’s a tech event, but it’s heavy female population in the group. Like, like you notice that’s unusual. There’s a ton of very successful businesswoman here and they shy away from events where they’re not treated correctly. So I’m, I’m intentionally creating and my wife and I are in Siam are intentionally creating a very female safe environment without overdoing it, you know, because you can go too far in the other direction also, and then it becomes oppressive in its own way. We, we, we thread the needle very carefully. The dress code, it’s a chance to glam up. You know it is opportunity.

15:06 You dress very well. You made a point of it and you’ve evolved your style over time. You know, you aren’t your suit, but your suit communicates something and it has you act a certain way when you’re wearing it and people interact with you in a certain way when you’re wearing it, even though it’s obviously like your skin, right? You know, we’re all the same people underneath, but it but it communicates a certain idea. It’s a it’s a professional event. We’re not there getting drunk.

15:28 We’re not there having a wild party. We’re we’re there in, you know, in an environment that’s a little bit conservative, conservative enough that people can come. And if they’re normally nervous about a tech or business event or a large gathering, they know it’s safe within a certain way. And as you pointed out, we’re it’s a lot of Emiratis there, it’s a lot of Arabs there, it’s a lot of Muslims there. OK, you know, and the, you know, it needs to be a place where people feel comfortable drinking or not drinking and, and not feeling awkward about that.

15:53 We have a large contingent that doesn’t drink alcohol and it’s, it’s fine. They feel comfortable. You know, you, you saw the honor table at the, at the front with all the local personages, I guess, for lack of a better word. So it’s all, it’s all a careful dance. And part of the dance is, you know, or it’s, it’s all of a carefully prepared dish.

16:13 And part of that dish is removing certain ingredients. To be blunt, if there’s someone who makes women feel uncomfortable, they’re not. They’re never going to come back. So you get a couple complaints and they’re off the list. Especially so I’m on one hand I’m having fun, on the other hand I’m watching like ADHD Hawk, which is something else I can talk about.

16:31 You know, I have that sort of peripheral vision of social interaction and I’m just scanning the room to make sure everyone’s happy and everyone’s comfortable. I’m scanning the room to make sure the stage is getting the attention it can get. As you alluded to, look, it’s not a library, it’s not a conference. It is a networking event. People are going to talk even when other people are talking on stage.

16:49 I just try to keep a bounce there. I don’t want to be too oppressive, but I want to have enough attention on the front. You know, you’ve dealt with this yourself. It just, it’s just, I’m doing a constant vibe control. You know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a challenge and you know,

17:04 Brian Rose: and how is it so consistent?

17:05 Gordon Einstein: I, it’s, it’s not always easy, but I think if you’re, it’s hard to be consistent when you’re in a vacuum, but when you have a team, it’s a lot easier. And when you have a social expectation that you do something, it’s a lot easier. And my ego is either strong enough or insecure enough that I can’t stop because I don’t want people to see me stopping. So even if I’m like, oh gosh, I’m tired, you know, I, I feel there’s to do it. Plus I know what we’re building.

17:32 We’re we’re going to a whole multi city model which we can talk about. And I know the value it brings in. People have it like it and to most I enjoy it. It is fun. It is a lot of fun.

17:42 Brian Rose: It looks like fun.

17:43 Yeah, it’s it’s a blast. And so you’re super proud. You’re like 42 in a row and why can’t you take it a week off?

18:09 Gordon Einstein: Well, I’ll tell you the the day my son was born, the day Joseph popped out of Arena to make it like it was actually a beautiful experience. But I mean, just being casual about it, He came out, I made sure he was OK.

18:59 I mean, sure, she was OK. I got the hall pass. I ubered over to take Tuesdays, ran the stage for all of an hour. I said my son was just born. But I’m here to show I’m serious, make sure everyone think it was good. Luckily Mohamed Siam and my friend Rick took over and I went back to the hospital and then it was good. The only the only there’s only been two Tuesdays we haven’t done it.

19:18 One of them we had the iftar that week, so we had an alternative event and the other one was New Year’s Eve. And for some reason people didn’t want to do New Year’s Eve at Tech Tuesdays. I. Was ready to do it. I was ready to do it.

19:27 We actually had the venue. It was like Gordon just relaxed for a week. I’m like, OK, but you know, and we do it during the summer when things normally die out. But you know, a lot of people, Dubai, especially in the crypto world, is famous, unfortunately for rug pulls. People build up, people talk big, they build up a community.

19:45 They look like they’re serious. They have a team that looks like they’re serious. And then they get bored or they run away with the ether, Ethereum or they something happens. They have their own little drama. And then you’re like, what the hell happened there? You know what, what happened to my coin? Now the whole team is like run away with a deposit or what happened to this event.

20:04 You know, they, they, they go to #8 and then they wait three months before #9 or something, you know, it’s like, you know, nice weekly event you got there. So you know that, that happens a lot here. But you know, I, I think once you’re consistent, let me put it this way. Dubai is great, but Dubai is a low trust environment for a variety of reasons. Because people come and go and you know, there’s a, you know, people are fast talkers and don’t necessarily deliver. Imagine creating a high trust bubble in a low trust environment.

20:30 Once people see that, they love it and consistency in doing what you say you’re going to do. Being a man of your word creates trust. And when they see this happening every week, they creates trust. And when people can see each other every week and get to know each other, it creates trust. And then you get business done. You know, there’s a lot of money being made in that room. Yeah, it’s, it’s great.

20:48 Brian Rose: Yeah, and I’ve started to build up trust with a lot of people there because I’ve seen about 3 or 4 times. So first time you connect, but then you don’t really send a message afterwards. The next time you have a little more of a conversation and then then you’re meeting up and and it’s the thing. But only an American would do this every week in a row into an obsessive way, and that’s a beautiful thing.

21:07 Gordon Einstein: Well, I am German also.

21:08 Brian Rose: OK, so maybe a German would and

21:10 Gordon Einstein: and I mentioned before casualty, but just to be clear, you know, with ADHD thing, one of the compensatory things for ADHD is being a little bit OCD being a little bit overly structured. So my you know, I have controlled chaos. You know, I structure is good. So if I know this is that, you know, if it was once a week, but I didn’t know what day we wouldn’t be doing it, but it’s tech Tuesday. So I locked myself in.

21:34 If it does, if it doesn’t happen on Tuesday, everyone knows it didn’t happen and everyone’s staring and asking what happened. So I built the structure around me that supports accomplishing the goal. And, and again, my wife is fantastic and she has her woman’s community that comes. Mohammed Siam is fantastic. He’s got the local connections, the government connections, and he’s integrated with this society.

21:53 I mean, when you think about, we’re three very different people.

21:56 Brian Rose: Yeah, very different talk. To me about the relationship with Mohammed Siam, because I had met him separately at Blockchain Life and had a really good vibe with him. And then I saw him later when I came to speak at your event. And then I was like, like, wow, this is unique to have that Emirati partner with what you’re doing. I mean, that’s not typical.

22:15 Gordon Einstein: It it so there, it’s an interesting situation here. It used to be, used to be before I came here that in order to run a business here, you needed an Emirati partner. It was a legal requirement, you know, and they would kind of you can call rent seeking behavior or whatever they were kind of, you know, put their name on the license, sit back and let you work, you know, for the for the honor of paying them for better, for worse. The the wise leadership of this country. And I’m not just saying that to be nice. They they are wise said this is archaic. What are we doing?

22:42 You know, it’s the 21st century. Enough of that. And so you can have full control of your businesses and everything else. The now we are in the Middle East. We are in the UAE.

22:52 It is a Muslim country. It is a country with a strong sense of tribe, clan and religion. OK. And if it’s you don’t need to have a local partner and I certainly wouldn’t do it just for kicks, but if you’ve meet a local person that you like and you respect and they bring value to the table, you’d be foolish not to engage. It helps.

23:13 It’s just like, you know, it’s like going to China and not speaking Chinese or not being president Chinese people. I mean, you can live in your little bubble, but if you really want to get in there deep, you got to kind of cross the bridges and just and get work with it. He’s he’s just a very cool guy. He’s got his own AI company. He’s, you know, he, he did some hacking as a very young kid and the police found him and rather than punched him, you know, they adopted him.

23:36 And so he got his government connections. He has a great bunch of interviews and he talks about it at like, he’s just a cool guy. And I, you know, I could have started this by myself, but you know, it was initially my idea, but you know, it why I, you know, it’s like, I’m not, you know, it’s not the Gordon show. It’s Tech Tuesday and I wanted to work with other people. Mama Sam is a great partner in this and other things. My wife is a great partner.

24:00 Regards. You know, and I think you are interviewing each other one way or another. You know, he, he’s a great friend and he’s very busy, but he contributes a lot. We we have a whole ecosystem. So no, I’m happy to work with Mohammed’s.

24:13 Brian Rose: Yeah, yeah, Mohammed’s there. I think every week I’ve seen him every time, but he, he, he, he is a partner. In tech Tuesday, he’s he’s very good and he has a lot of value and that says a lot when. You’re there every week,

24:23 Gordon Einstein: yes, when you show up. Oh yeah.

24:24 Brian Rose: And I yeah, I met a lot of locals that I’m guessing came through him or because of him or maybe they just came. But yeah, it’s, it’s, well, it’s.

24:33 Gordon Einstein: Social proof. Because there, there, there is, there is a, a divide between the communities here, OK, there there’s the expedition community, the local community. And then there’s the thin membrane of people who cross and you see the same faces at all these events as the Emiratis who work with expeditious or like that environment.

24:52 And then you got the few expeditious who kind of slightly cross over into that world, but it’s a little bit impenetrable, OK, You know, depends where you are culturally and religion wise and everything else, but it’s a little bit impenetrable. What’s unique about our event, and I kind of want to take it up a few notches over time, is that you, you do have a blend between the expatriate community and the local community to a certain extent. That’s why we have the decorum at the event because, you know, to have Mris, especially Emirati women show up, it’s got to be a proper event.

25:24 It can’t be shady in any respect. It has to be very respectful, structured, good people, dress nicely, behave nicely, nice venue, everything else. Then they feel comfortable showing up and, you know, then they see other people like themselves and you get social proof and then it grows. So I’m, I’m tending this garden with extreme care and awareness. And as we expand Abu Dhabi and then Qatar and Bahrain and then Saudi, it’s, we’re going to be maintaining that conservative middle student vibe, which, which actually I like. I don’t have a problem with it.

25:53 You know, I’m from I’m from licentious California and I’m feel more at home here and you know, you’re going to have your fun here. Obviously, you know, it’s Dubai, but I kind of like that conservative family vibe and that resonates with the local culture and I’m good with it.

26:07 Brian Rose: Well, let’s talk about. That because this is a long way from where you were in 2020 in Los Angeles, a completely different culture and completely different vibe. And a lot of people watching us, are listening to us right now are going to be in the United States or Canada.

26:20 And you know, for my dad, who lives in San Diego, CA, when I keep telling him to visit me, you know, he’s in his 80s. He’s like, I can’t go over there. It’s the war zone. And I and I’m like, no dad, my mom is here. And she isn’t ready.

26:31 Gordon Einstein: She’s here right now. So I want you to go tell your dad that Gordon’s mom is here.

26:35 Brian Rose: Yeah, I just. I guess. My point was, is they have a completely opposite perception of what it feels like to be here. And like you just described a little bit of a feeling and how you feel here.

26:45 I know before you’ve said a little bit like this place is like a really nice hotel where you come in and it’s got these beautiful things set up and if you follow the rules, then you can come back again. And that was an interesting way of describing a place as opposed to comparing it to a city in the US. You saw that interview? What’s that? You.

27:03 Saw that interview. Interesting. OK. And so how? Would you describe how you feel here and how would you describe Dubai or the Emirates to people outside of here, maybe Americans who’ve never been here and maybe have misconceptions about it or think it’s this or that, or it’s a monarchy and it’s oppressive and we have our freedoms and they don’t.

27:20 How do you describe it?

27:21 Gordon Einstein: Well, it is a monarchy. I mean, let’s be truthful, right? The OK, So what did what what is Dubai for me? OK, what what is for me may not be what the same thing it is for a Bangladeshi laborer on a building or for an Emirati or for a woman or for this or for that.

27:37 What what is it for me? OK, You know, as an American German lawyer who’s into crypto and blockchain, it’s fantastic, All right? It, the way I described it variously is it’s a very high level hotel if you like, it’s a residence hotel. OK. You don’t necessarily going to, you’re not necessarily going to stay your whole life here. They don’t necessarily want you to stay your whole life here, though that may be changing a little bit. But you can come here and accomplish great things. It is not an oppressive system.

28:05 Do you have a lot of personal freedom? OK, There’s political freedom, there’s freedom of expression, there’s personal freedom. And you know, nowhere is all this way and some, maybe some of the personal freedom comes, you know, because you don’t have necessity. This other stuff is everything’s in a balance. And you know, people said, oh, Courtney, you’re so blunt on these interviews. It’s like I I think I’m just being fair. The where, where freedoms matter to me, OK? I’m 55 years old, OK?

28:26 I have a wife. I have a three month old son, OK? What freedoms matter to me? I had the freedom to walk down the street without getting stabbed. That’s a big freedom, OK?

28:33 If I was a watch guy and I’m kind of slowly becoming a watch guy, the freedom walk down the street without my watch being taken or my iPhone being stoled on some bike, that’s a freedom, OK, for the non Americans out there, the freedom to not be taxed to death, not to work like a slave and then have your money inflated away on one side and then taxed away on the other side. And then you know what the heck happened? You know, there’s we then do certain balance. There’s good freedom of expression and the freedom of expression that isn’t allowed.

29:00 I actually don’t have a problem with like you’re not allowed to insult other races or religions or anything like that. They, they want, they have, I think, you know, I talked to someone recently, you have 156 countries cohabitating here peacefully. You know, that’s, that’s either a recipe for a disaster or that’s a recipe for something awesome. You you actually have the unlike in the United States, diversity works here, OK, But there, there is a structure within which that diversity exists, you know, and that that structure has rules. You know, it’s like we’re we’re, we’re in the matrix, OK, And the Matrix has the rules and you can either master the rules and become Neo or you can resist it and have a problem, OK, And it, and if you don’t like it, you can leave, you know, I mean, barring something extreme, no one’s making me stay here. I can go.

29:44 If I don’t like it, I’ll, I’ll leave. Maybe one day I will, but I like it. They they they don’t, they’re if you want to talk about law of attraction, they are strong believers, some law of attraction, OK, No one’s forced to come here. You’re choosing to come here. And if you choose to come here, just like if you choose to come to someone else’s house, you respect the rules of their house.

30:01 They say, you know, this is the private library. Don’t go in there. OK, fine. Have fun. OK.

30:06 You know, you’re making me dinner. You’re, you know, have a nice comfy bed, whatever. And I can go, You know, if I hear something terrible, then that’s a different situation. But it’s, it’s not like that, you know, people get this weird, you know, look at the Western media. I’m like, Oh my gosh, you know, and I’m not an, I’m not an apologist for some things that some people might have an issue with.

30:23 But the Western media presents an incomplete view that when you’re having the lived experience here, it’s not actually like that. OK. And you need to come here and you need to experience it. And then you need to talk to people. And you can judge for yourself whether it’s good, it is safe.

30:38 You have a great deal of expression. It is not like 15 years ago where if you kissed your wife or girlfriend on the beach, you know, the morals police are going to come and get you.

30:45 Brian Rose: I think there was like 20 years ago, some British couple was acting inappropriately on the beach, like, really overdoing it.

30:51 Gordon Einstein: Yeah. And.

30:51 Then I remember it was a British couple. Yeah, but that was 20 years ago. OK. You know, the, it’s the, the core. It’s like Texas. It’s there’s a love of decorum.

31:02 If you don’t like it, don’t come.

31:04 Brian Rose: Yeah, I. Love. I’ve, I’ve fallen in love with it. It’s like, you know, it’s like, I think it’s OK.

31:10 Then maybe people shouldn’t be, you know, making out in public. You know, I like it when I go to the beach and if I’m walking on the board by guys, like put your T-shirt on. I’m like, OK, I like it that I, this is jealous of you. Yeah. This is jealous of your build.

31:21 I also like it. That’s just like I don’t see strip clubs and I don’t see sex shops and like I don’t see drunken footballers like I see in London. It’s like, I don’t need to see that. And I know they have the freedom to do that, but it’s like, I also like the fact that that’s not here and it just makes for a really peaceful place for me to be. And I and I think that’s that’s also really nice.

31:41 And like you said, it’s like visiting someone’s house. It’s like, oh, you could say, well, I just visited your mom’s house and I have the right to tell her that her cooking sucks and her place is bad and I hate her political beliefs. OK, is that freedom? Maybe. But if I’m in someone’s house and I’m a guest there, then I’m not going to do that and nobody would.

31:59 Gordon Einstein: And so, you know, that’s some people would. Some people would. Actually. Some people would. They’re doing something.

32:04 I mean, I’ll get political, you can always suck me up. But in the US, people are doing that. People are coming in there on student visas and everything else and telling them that their mother’s cooking sucks, right, Because they’re exercising. Their freedom of speech, Yeah, and actively. Interfering with others freedom of speech and act. You know, like I.

32:20 Whatever I stand. On politically, I generally want people to express their points of view, but when those you know, it’s a usual thing, but you’re right, stop at the tip of my nose. You know, people are, are getting past the nose in the US and interfering with other people’s freedoms. So you know, where, where, where, where’s freedom here? I have the freedom to practice my religion, to engage in commerce, to make friends of, you know, of every nationality and every belief system.

32:43 I have freedom to do these events. I have the freedom to go either freedom to come. It’s a it’s a lot of when we call it civil freedoms.

33:47 OK. And you, you know, is there a dark side? I think so. You don’t want to get on the wrong side of the police. You don’t want to get the wrong side of the Emiratis. You don’t want to talk trash, you know. But again, if you don’t let it go, if you want to be critical of the UAE, do it from Germany, OK? But if you’re if you’re living here, you know, play by the rules, OK?

34:11 And the rules are not draconian. The rules are great. I mean, here we are having a good conversation in Dubai, OK, And we’re talking about by Amarani partner. And you know, and it’s like it, it, it is good here. And and also, I mean, and your take, God bless him.

34:26 I’ve never met him. I feel like I will one of these days because we’re kind of in the the quasi same circles. Just like, you know, you know, I eventually meet everyone. Cool, take it as a compliment. But you know, his point was, you know, the if you create an environment where people feel safe with their stuff, they’re going to come here with their stuff and they’re going to make more stuff, OK, You got countries where people don’t feel safe for their stuff in their stuff can be their physical stuff that are mental Peace of Mind or their family stuff.

34:53 And you know, if you want them to have it and make more of it, you got to create an environment where it’s secure and there’s secure from the government, secure from the people. And you know, they’re doing a great job here.

35:03 Brian Rose: You know what the other thing I don’t? Miss about London is is being involved in all the politics and all the he said, she said. And then and then and then it’s now become our form of entertainment in the last 10 years. There’s none of that here.

35:15 I remember I sat down with Doctor Marwan and MRI. He’s an interesting guy, He’s. An amazing guy. And he’s the reason I’m really here and he’s made my golden visa. So just because of who I was.

35:25 It’s another reason I love this place, you know, because they really go out of their way to bring talent in. And like, you know, the UK didn’t do that for me. But my mom once said he’s like, we don’t We, you know, we want people to be able to get up here in the morning and work on their business and work on their family. And, you know, there’s not the headlines. You don’t have to worry about this.

35:44 There’s all this, there’s all this drama. There’s not all this other stuff. And I must say, I don’t miss hearing what the Tories said about the Conservatives. It’s nice to tune that out. And now I just can focus on the things that are important to me.

35:55 Gordon Einstein: Yeah, it’s it’s. How do I say it’s a it’s a planned development if you want to use AUS term, you know, so OK, so trees can’t grow to a certain height. OK, I don’t care. I’m not gardening anyway, you know, I’ll also say you can there’s different kinds of politics. We’re kind of, we’re going to go in a little tangent if you don’t mind, but there’s, I’m a big believer in winning through results and winning through action and not through language. The like the like, yeah, with tech Tuesday’s, you know, it’s like you can’t argue with 42 times. You can’t argue with, you know, what a full house is when we pan the camera around and really is a full house, you know, you can’t argue with the way the people look. And I’m creating actual facts and facts win, you know, and how do you create facts?

36:47 You, you can’t BS your way to a fact. You have to create action. You know, you can negotiate and use language to coordinate your parties in your in your groups, but there there is a formal politics, the the politics of the deed. OK, the politics, you know, which the way I think you might find distasteful, and I do too in the in the US, is that the, the verbal nature of the politics, yet it’s lacking substance and reality and actual impact. You know, they said this, they said this, you know, OK, that was witty, but what did it actually change in the universe? Other bunch of oxygen atoms moving around. I love creating facts on the ground and, and winning or, you know, and it’s not just me winning, having my group win or humanity went through those actions. And Dubai is, I always say Dubai is for doers. OK, You can, you can engage in the politics of the deed. You, you can build that new research facility that is going to let everyone live longer.

37:38 You can build that new ethical AI. You can, you know, you can do those experiments that will help people live longer with stem cells and everything else. You can really impact the world. You just need to change your mentality. It’s all, it’s almost, dare I say, little Chinese, like they get stuff done, they get stuff.

37:55 It’s, it’s all scary. However, they get stuff done. They get stuff done fast and at speed. And you can do that in a suddenly more microcosm way in Dubai. And so I’d encourage people to take that point of view. And just, you know, I was in Los Angeles, it was 2020, COVID was happening, various lives were mattering on the streets. And that was not safe.

38:15 So I came over here at a friend’s invitation and I and I saw the contrast and I grew up. I grew up in Los Angeles. I was born in Los Angeles. So, you know, I had a little stint in Washington. My dad was in the military, so I was in false church for a while in your Pentagon.

38:28 But you know, Los Angeles, it has its great parts and it’s nice to visit. And don’t get me wrong, you can have a good life in Los Angeles, but it is not on the right trajectory, OK, Dubai and the Middle East and all these others ways are on the right path. So I saw the contrast when I came out here thanks to a friend. And that’s how crypto was happening and it was great. And I flew back and I had to wrap up some personal stuff and then came out here and never looked back.

38:53 Brian Rose: That’s a crazy. Trajectory, I mean, if you had told yourself in 19 that you were going to move to the Middle East for the rest of not for a big chunk of your life, it was

39:02 Gordon Einstein: look. I, I thought, and it still may happen in some form. I thought I was going to either end up in Ukraine because I really like Ukraine and I’ve been there 25 times and that’s actually the reason I’m in blockchain and crypto. Or I thought in this way, you still happen some very into this, you know, end up whatever that means in Switzerland just because I like I like their kind of attitude. I did not see Dubai coming, OK.

39:24 And it shocked me. But again, I was in that circumstance in Los Angeles, You know, I it was COVID. They are, you know, and this is the draconian crazy California lockdown of COVID. And, you know, thank God, I got that invitation. That invitation changed the course of my life. You know that, that, that, you know, nice friend, but not like my really close friend, just, but just a, you know, medium level acquaintance inviting me out. And it’s like, boom, little things can change a lot. You know, you’re smart by the way, I’ll break the portal. But you, you have this pre interview form that people fill out and one of them is like, what’s your aha moment? My aha moment was coming to Dubai. And you know, at that moment there was not much traffic. That one, that one, they fooled me. OK, But the aha moment was the places were open. They were doing crypto.

40:12 People were nice. Like good looking people here, you know, a lot of opportunity and it’s like aha, this is what it can be.

40:19 Brian Rose: OK, nice. It’s like a hustler’s. Paradise for me, and it’s also got. It’s a builder’s paradise.

40:25 Gordon Einstein: Yeah, yeah, maybe that’s it, Builder’s paradise. And then it’s also got amazing weather and beaches and all that, you know, but you can also work hard and everyone else’s as well, and that’s a rare combination. It’s a. Meritocracy on steroids. You can either come here today, have a good time, and God bless you if you do. And a lot of people first come here to have a good time. But if this is a meritocracy and it, it, it flushes out the people who aren’t, don’t have the merit eventually. But if you, it’s like I was saying, if you’re consistent about delivering results, you’ll get noticed. And you don’t have to be Muslim, You don’t have to be Arab. You don’t have to It’s, it’s OK.

41:01 They’re, they’re open minded here, OK. And you know, you’ll just build the relationship slowly and then things happen and you start adding value and it can happen. So you know, the hustlers thing is like it’s another androtatism, right? Hustlers university and all that stuff. But he he’s not really a hustler. He’s built businesses, he works out. He did kickboxing.

41:19 Kickboxing is the opposite of hustling, right? He you have to trick. You’re a martial artist and you’re doing your boxing. You know, it’s not a one time Oi won. He didn’t roll the dice.

41:28 He didn’t lie to anyone. Like nothing is more real than getting in a fight, right? And then having to train for it because then all the words mean nothing. That’s just a physical reality of it. So this is a builder’s paradise. You build yourself and you build your business and you build your relationships, and then you get to keep a good chunk of what you build.

41:44 Brian Rose: What does this place look? Like in 10 years, do you think? And on that same note, what is, you know, Tech Tuesday’s look like in 10 years? You mentioned the I love, I love how you. Integrate those two.

41:53 Gordon Einstein: I It’s very hard to know what the world is going to look like in 10 years with, with the political situation with right now and with AI and a bunch of other things. That being said, like China, like some other countries, they do have a plan, OK, the US is the plan changes every 10 seconds because you never even know who’s in charge or many people or no one’s in charge here. You know, it will get more green, OK? It will get more populated, it will get more expensive.

42:21 It will face enhanced competition from Saudi Arabia. OK, Saudi Arabia in some way is becoming a big Dubai. They’re behind, but they’re massive and they have massive money and a big population. Yeah, and a big population, right, which you know. In American terms, it’s like 10%, but you know, in local terms, it’s it’s big and they have physical space. So Dubai was always anyway, he was always sort of an outlier economy, like an entree port to to access the bigger GCC, the more the more liberal place, the place that you want to live and raise your family.

42:53 And then you know, or you or Abu Dhabi, you know, and then you go to Saudi for three days to do some business. It’s hasn’t Saudi is not a big Dubai yet, but as it loosens up, as opportunity grows there, as everything else, Dubai is going to have to hustle and you can see it. You can see them, you know, they have to move. They have to be extremely nimble and play to all their strengths, you know, and you may get bleed over of in a good way of what Dubai is into Russell Hema and Disharja into these neighbor neighboring Emirates that are charming and nice, you know, as they are, but now need to hustle themselves.

43:29 So you you, you in Abu Dhabi and Dubai have always maintained a little bit distance from each other because they are separate body politics within the same country. But now they’re linking up with the rail and everything else. I think I think you’re going to see a slightly more integrated UAE. I think you’re going to see a more integrated region. Hopefully there’s a, you know, God willing, there’s, there’s a, more of a regional peace that will happen in the next 10 years.

43:51 I, I think it’s possible again, knock on wood, God willing, you know, that’s about my pay grade. But I, I think there’s a lot of opportunity there. And to extent I can help it happen, I will. But I also know my limitations. So I, this is going to be at least one of the pillars of my life. You know, there may be another pillar in Ukraine, There may be another pillar in Switzerland.

44:10 It depends how life plays out just because you know what’s Ukrainian in France or Ukrainian. So we’ll see how that goes. But all that stuff to answer your other question. So I on one hand, Dubai Tuesdays is spontaneous and experimental. On the hand, even before the first one, I already had the master plan in mind.

44:28 It’s a weird duality. It is meant, it was meant from the ground up to be modeled and then copied. OK, I almost done with the modeling, the series of experiments I’ve been running. You know, you can say it’s a lab again. Every time I try slightly different concoction, I say right now the concoction is about 75 percent, 80%, right. Maybe there’s some other things we can tweak on the edges, but it’s getting, it’s honing in on what it should be on its final form.

44:59 And so as we approach that, we’re it’s already in progress, we’re going to systematize the IP, set up the corporate structure and then go to Abu Dhabi next. OK. And that that’s intended again, everything has gone hands. That’s intended for September, October, let’s say. And then after that Qatar, then Bahrain, then Saudi and then we go from there.

45:21 The I’ve already had nibbles, but you know, everyone who sees it says, oh, you should open this up in Miami, you know, or, or Berlin. Well, that’s intention. But we’re going to, we’re going to do it in a way that maintains the vibe. One of my visions, one of my fantasies, if you, if you like, is that, you know, it’s all on Tuesday right now. Of course there’s different time zones, but you know, vertically it’s all the same time zone on planet Earth. So imagine if everyone like in our time zone and then plus one and -1 was at a Tech Tuesdays and you’re surrounded by screens and you’re virtually present in all the other Tech Tuesdays that are happening.

45:53 So imagine you’re at Dubai Tech Tuesdays and you have a video wall showing Abu Dhabi Tech Tuesdays and Guitar Tech is and behind Tech is is in Saudi. And you’re like looking around and like all these people are at the same kind of experience at the same moment. How awesome would that be?

46:07 Brian Rose: Yeah, that’s cool. And that.

46:08 Means you’ll be more likely to go to the one in Miami to go to the one in Abu Dhabi if you’ve been to the one here. I know the vibe, I know the field. I’ve seen it. Let’s go.

46:16 Gordon Einstein: Well, we’re we. Are gonna we’re building it out now we’re gonna have the website, the membership back end the whole thing, the local leaders, the chapter leaders

46:23 Brian Rose: of people you find a Gordon on the. Ground in these other cities.

46:26 Gordon Einstein: Well, you know what? Again, it’s not how do you find it, Brian? You know, it’s it’s like it’s a good question. It doesn’t need to be me, OK? It the elements that make it magic.

46:42 I’m not, I’m not underrating myself. I think I have a certain value on the stage, OK, or as hosting it. But you know, there’s other people like me and it may be challenging to find them, but they’re out there and they’re going to be great. And they’re going to be great in their own way. And they’re going to bring their own magic that’s separate from the magic I bring and probably even better sometimes, OK.

47:00 And I, I’m not going to run myself ragged trying to be two places at once running. You know, I can’t be Tuesdays. I can’t, you know, it is Tuesdays. It’s not Tuesday, then Wednesday, then Thursday. So we’re going to have to find someone in Abu Dhabi.

47:11 We’re going to find someone who’s local and great and have them work within a certain structure and provide lots of support. It will be a challenge, but you know, it was hard to start it and it’ll be hard to do the first copy. But once there’s two, it’ll be an easy, easier process expanding it out. And I’m you notice what’s not there, but what’s not at Tech Tuesday’s is name tags, OK? What’s not at Tech Tuesday’s, and I think there’s a place for it, is AI matchmaking OK now or benchmaking in general? I’m not saying that stuff is bad, OK? I’ve done events with name tags and Andy, we had a partner come in a few weeks ago that did AI matchmaking. But I am, whether it’s generational or otherwise, I like people going into that room and getting to know each other organically and having the conversation to find out who’s who, you know?

47:59 And so I think when we have people traveling between cities and your time is a little bit more precious, we may have a guide, you know, some of that functionality, you know, here’s the, here’s the members. Or maybe they’ll be a tiered membership. We’ll figure it out. But there’s a lot of demand for it.

48:15 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s. Important.

48:16 I mean, what, when we were talking before the camera started rolling, I was telling you all these little details about this program that makes it, this program. Things we decide to do, things we decide not to do. And it’s what makes London Real, London Real. And so for your events, all those little tiny decisions and the ethos makes that event what it is. And people aren’t coming for the matchmaking.

48:34 Gordon Einstein: But then again, there’s a lot of beautiful people there that are really cool to talk to, but it’s not maybe the prime thing. And then there’s no name tags. But then again, if you talk to people, it’s very easy to find it. It’s a buffet. And, you know, if you want Chinese food that night, have Chinese.

48:47 If you want Mexican, have Mexican. You know, sometimes you think you’re hungry for Chinese and then you see Mexican. You eat. You eat that. No something.

48:53 Brian Rose: Usually random happens like I met a guy last night who was a music producer who wants to now produce my first hip hop track. My math that. Is the I didn’t expect that last night. Your. Your rents on this man. You got your boxing, you got this, You got this trying to tick all the Renaissance.

49:07 Boxes. But like, I didn’t expect to meet that guy at your event, but I did. There was quite a range of people there, you know, it is interesting.

49:14 Gordon Einstein: And for some people, that might be frustrating. You know, I I people walking up to me. This happened twice last night.

49:19 OK. I have a part of it. Who’s the investors I don’t like? We’ll go talk and find out. We’ll point them out to me.

49:23 No, no. You know, no. I mean, are you paying me? I mean, you know that for that they would pay me. OK.

49:30 It’s like, no, I, I am providing you a beautiful environment with great people who are curated and content. You know, you, you can go to the last 10%. I did 90% of the work for you. I put the right people in the room. Now you, you know, go, go play, go play squid games or whatever it is, you know, and you know, go, go, go find the, the 1% you want.

49:49 Yeah, it’s look, I, I, I think, I think you saw me say this before the just to talk about action again. OK, what is the point? Taking action? Why don’t I just sit here and read a book, you know, because reading is great. There’s two things.

50:04 Action produces information, OK. There’s information that’s on the other side of action that’s not available otherwise. You can chat to PT your whole life. You can talk to people your whole life. You need to take action in the real world and that produces information. That information lets you often know your next step. Also, action produces entropy.

50:20 And I don’t mean entropy in the he death, the universe sense. I mean in the computer science sense. It produces randomness and randomness, like volatility is where you make your money. You don’t even make your money with something’s thing like this. You make your money with something going up and down.

50:33 OK, so we’re, I’m creating an environment. It’s intentional. It’s it’s, it’s mindful. If you like, I know you’re doing yoga and meditation. Everything else, it’s not by accident.

50:42 It is a conscious realized thing that this is a form for action. This is a form for taking action, standing up, introducing yourself. And that produces information and produces entropy. And when entropy and information come together, you get opportunity, OK. And so the people who get with the vibe, who stand up and take the microphone, you know, who are you, where you from?

51:02 What are you up to? And I’m talking to other people. That’s a little laboratory for for action. And people come up and they tell me they found their partner there. You know, they they found their investor there. They found their local translator. What?

51:16 Whatever. You know, everything comes up, you know they I’m waiting for someone to get married from Tech Tuesday’s. It happened with Happy Hour Mafia, right? OK. I I, I I. Prefer not to cause a divorce.

51:28 I I, I went through that myself. It wasn’t too pleasant, but it’s true if you go there. And you take action and you step up and you go talk to people, then things will happen. And that’s not going to happen if you stay at home. Yeah, they can’t not. Happen if you if you do it at scale, you know, and and you know, and I’m not saying flop around uselessly, but you’re in an environment that’s curated and optimized for action takers. You’re in a beautiful environment, you know, you’re rocking and rolling in there.

51:54 Brian Rose: Yeah, I always. Feel like I haven’t met enough people in there.

51:57 Gordon Einstein: Well, keep on. Coming back when you, you bring a you bring a sparkle every time you come, I’ll flatter you. I love being there.

52:02 Brian Rose: It’s good. It’s good. You bring Jack and Mohammed as well. He gives. Me a big hug and it’s just it’s great vibes. I’m going to be coming, maybe.

52:09 Gordon Einstein: Joseph expects you.

52:10 Brian Rose: Yeah, Yes. Who expects me?

52:12 Gordon Einstein: My baby? My son?

52:13 Brian Rose: Oh.

52:13 Yeah, OK. Yeah, I didn’t. See him there last night? I missed him.

52:16 Gordon Einstein: Well, he was a yeah. We’re bringing, obviously he’s three months old, so we’re being, you know, a little measured in his exposure. That’s pretty.

52:22 But we brought him. My parents were there. You know, our nanny was helping out. We put ourselves put arena in the safe corner. We’re slowly getting him used to it.

52:29 You know, when he’s four years old, he’ll be on stage running the show. Maybe he’ll run Abu Dhabi.

53:02 Brian Rose: That’s crazy. Man, that’s crazy. All right, so it’s due by Tech Tuesdays.

53:26 This crypto vibe in the place you are, you know a crypto attorney, you’ve been in crypto for a long time. You know, you’ve been looking at Bitcoin since 2014. Obviously this is a huge part of your own in IP. What is, in your opinion, the current state of the union of crypto? How does Dubai plug in?

53:44 Is it the most important city in the world when it comes to crypto? How would you say you look at the state of where we are right now?

53:52 Gordon Einstein: I think you have a problem with people saying this, but good questions. OK, let me take 1 little rollback and then I’ll push it forward. OK? Why am I doing what I’m doing well? Why am IA crypto and blockchain attorney? It’s because in 2014 that you correctly mentioned I met this couple from Ukraine, went to Odessa and got exposed to blockchain and crypto and then I’d stop practicing law at that point because I had my own technology company. What what happened is I2 realizations. The first one is if I went back into the practice of law and practice in this area, that’d be cool because I’d be one of the first, if not the first attorney in this area. And you know, this before became trendy and I was like, oh OK, well, there’s an opportunity here. The second realization I had, which kind of plugs into your other questions, is not just is this a neat area of law, but that blotching and crypto and these machineries, if you like, can make a lot better.

54:46 OK, law needs to be made better because I’ll tell you something, it’s changed very recently. I grew up. I was born in 1969. I grew up in the 70s and 80s. I thought that by the time 2002, thousand seemed like the ultimate future. In 2024 was like the ultimate, you know, this is past Blade Runner.

55:04 Blade Runner was my favorite movie growing up. That was in 2019. OK, we’re six years past the first Blade Runner. Where’s my flying cars, Susan? Where’s my replicants? OK, we’re, you know, it’s like, what the hell happened to the future?

55:17 And so when in 2014, I was getting very frustrated because I was like, what, you know, where’s my robots? All this stuff. The, and what I, what I saw with blockchain and crypto was a way to remove one of the systemic constraints on human advancement, which is the inefficiency of the legal system, the arbitrariness of these judges and juries. The they spent some time that goes into these things. Imagine if you can have programmatic law that is predictable, deterministic, that you know how it’s going to play out.

55:47 Imagine if you have one law for the entire world, you know, which is watching and code. You know, in the US we have states of law, federal government has law agencies, the law they’re all fighting and you have to all comply. And if they don’t agree, you could have with court cases. It’s ridiculous. It is.

56:00 Who wants to put money into that stuff? OK, you want to put money into generative activity. And I saw an opportunity to do that with blockchain. Funny enough, these past couple years. We are kind of getting the flying cars with these drone cars. We are kind of getting the robots, we are kind of getting some of this stuff, you know, especially in China, quantum and all this other stuff.

56:17 It’s like, you know, now with SpaceX, you know, the, the future finally seems to be arriving. I don’t know if it’s the future we want, but it’s here, you know, it’s coming here, it’s coming here fast. I mean, the future is getting weird fast. So to get more on your question though, I think I think blockchain and crypto, let’s talk about the markets, talk about the technology in the markets. I I think that blockchain by itself is OK.

56:42 It’s like, but when you apply to other areas, that’s where the magic happens, OK, If you apply it to supply chains, that’s where the magic happens. If you apply to academic degrees, that’s where the magic happens. Now you have a degree on chain. No one can fake where do they went to school? If they go to school, OK, Or they, you know, no one can fake a test result because now you now there’s an unoperable record.

57:03 You know, I’m going through all these hoops with visas and passports and everything else from from my extended family. Now I have to go to this office. Dubai is very good. I actually have to do less of it here than I would in the other country. But I’m having to bounce around different offices, get different paper stamp, stamp, stamp.

57:16 You know, it’s a bond between on site and online and especially between different governments. You know, with blockchain and everything else that can come very efficient. So it’s an accelerator for humanity. So when it comes to projects that apply blockchain, well, either add value or stop the removal of value. I think there’s a lot that can happen and you know, Ethereum with its, you know, and thinning clones with their virtual machines and the idea of not having its censorship and bringing this all on chain. Great.

57:43 Bitcoin, I think has is the long term play. You’re not necessarily going to get the 100 X multiple that deal with some of this other stuff, but you will will will survive what’s coming next with a small little footnote that if quantum encryption breaks, we’re going to have a problem. They say they’re going to bulletproof. Before that happens anyways, yeah, I’m waiting. Because, you know, quantum is moving really fast, like really fast. And if AI starts getting on top of quantum, you know, it may move faster than we think.

58:12 A lot of things are a little scary. It’s a fun time to be alive, but you know it. We’re to the second part of the question. We’re in the right place, OK? You and I have chosen as our basis the proper place for Krypton Watching.

58:24 Now, why several things. Dubai is the only as far as I’m aware of. This may change recently, but it’s from from the beginning. Dubai is the only jurisdiction on the planet that has a regulator entirely devoted to crypto. That’s Vara, virtual asset regulatory authority, right? The other places have the securities and commodities. The the, this, the that, the money transfer. It’s all you know, you have to go get legal opinions. All this other stuff.

58:50 Here they have one regulator. There’s one door to knock on, with the minor exception of something that’s the central bankers involved, OK, that, that is a great thing. And that Vara, the regulator, you know, it’s hard to do something from scratch. It’s hard to regulate an area from scratch. So they kind of had to find their footing. Initially.

59:07 They weren’t being terribly responsible or maybe they were being a little bit inconsistent, but they were getting better every single time. That’s what I like about this place. They get better, OK, They improve and you can see the results of them improving and you can see the number of applications being pushed through going up. So you you can actually get license here. And it’s not a joke license.

59:26 It’s not something weird third world jurisdiction where you’re like, well, you know, a license from, you know, UBA, Duba land, OK, Well, that’s not going to that’s not going to hold up in Germany, OK, But UAE is off the great list, OK, This is a respected jurisdiction and we got respected free zones here. We have DFC by International Financial center, we got ADG and Abu Dhabi global markets.

59:49 Brian Rose: What are those free? Zones for people that don’t know.

59:52 Gordon Einstein: Sure. So there’s UAE is the land of free zones, OK. That’s part of it is a marketing thing. It’s a free zone basically is a designated geographical space that has some sort of advantage relative to the mainland or some different treatment relative to the mainland. Traditionally that meant maybe that there was a tax treatment that was different there, or labor rules that were different there or something like that, or customs didn’t apply there that where they would normally apply.

1:00:21 Free zones in the UE generally mean that English corporate law applies, not the normal default Sharia based Arabic law, but you can make your contracts in English have them enforced in that sort of way. So you have the commercial or corporate law here. There’s two constitutional special free zones, financial free zones. Not only do they have their own corporate law that’s English, but they have financial law like stocks wants everything else that’s based on English finance law, which is the world standard. So Abu Dhabi and Dubai are sort of duopoly here. Abu Dhabi has Abu Dhabi Global Markets, ADGM. They have their own company law, they have their own court system, they have their own English law based financial law system.

1:01:03 You can actually appeal it, I think to the crown in England, OK, and in Dubai of Dubai International Financial Center, DIFC and they’re kind of like sisters. They’re competitors and sisters and however you want to call it. So if you want to really set up a coal company that is globally respected, you can do it in one of those two free zones, OK.

1:01:19 Brian Rose: Is this still the? Most important city in the world when it comes to blockchain?

1:01:23 Gordon Einstein: That’s a very general question.

1:01:24 What would you say it is? It’s the most important city regionally for sure. OK, simply because of our simply because the activity here, simply because the tax structure and everything else, the development teams may not be here, but this is a great place to put your main office and this actually a great place to put maybe more than your main office. OK, so and then intellectual property protection here is decent. So this is definitely the regional hub.

1:01:51 People are trying to contend with it, but they have a long way to go. You know, Qatar, whatever you know, UAE is doesn’t it sort of kind of plays cute with regional politics and Bahrain people are like, you know, they need to get to know it better and Saudis still kind of figuring yourself out. And Oman, you know, needs to has more steps to go. So it is the regional center.

1:02:11 Brian Rose: Does it compare with London?

1:02:13 Gordon Einstein: Well, London, London is, you know, unfortunately the UK is very critical unfriendly and Europe is very unfriendly. You know, crypto FSA is unfriendly in the UK, even in the City of London.

1:02:23 And then in Europe we have Mica, which is, you know, terrible why and causing real problems. So you’re kind of took itself out of the zone. Do you have any competitor in Africa? No. Do you have a competitor in India to the same continent?

1:02:34 No. Maybe Singapore or Hong Kong has something to say, Right? Maybe to be determined they’re pretty. Good. They’re not jokes. OK, they’re but they kind of they need to be a little bit more consistent or they need to decide whether they’re friendly or unfriendly, but they’re not nothings OK. And then when you go to the Western Hemisphere, you have British Virgin Islands, you have came as you have all this other stuff.

1:02:57 Those are kind of like if you were setting up in the US, maybe you want to set up your entity there and not here. That kind of depends where your customers are. The The funny thing is, I’d say maybe the US under Trump maybe is finally turning it around on crypto. And if it really pulls that off, it will dominate everywhere else because there’ll be a large industrial financial economy doing at at a scale that makes outlier offshore jurisdictions like Hong Kong, Singapore and Dubai not relevant, right, Because they have the customer. Base and they also they have the builders there, they have the universities, they have just you have the domestic. Market, you know, if something is legal in the US, you can sell in the entire US.

1:03:38 If something is legal in Dubai, who, where else can you sell? You’re not quite sure, right? You know, Dubai, you know, it’s like, so to have a large integrated, coherent market is a great advantage, OK. the US, you know, should have that advantage. It is a continent scale economy, right? The problem with the US is we have federalism. So we have the federal government, we have the state government.

1:04:02 So you have this clash between these governments. So you kind of have this what could be a continental economy, slightly hobbled by federalism, OK, slightly offset because NAFTA integrated Canada in Mexico. So it’s pretty good. Part of the reason why the US is successful even now is it has this large scale. You have the economies of scale. China is a continental scale economy, OK Russia is, you know, is in its way.

1:04:26 Dubai by definition can’t be. So when when they, but, you know, when these but where are the customers? They’re in the continental size economies, which is why they resist moving fast on crypto and blockchain. They they have their own population that may be damaged by this stuff. You know, Dubai and these other places can play a little bit more loose with it.

1:04:42 But Trump is, you know, he’s an adventurous soul, apparently. You know, he’s, he’s interesting this term, definitely. He’s a lot more interesting. Than the last term, Yeah. He’s actually seems to be getting some stuff done.

1:04:56 Brian Rose: Yeah. Shockingly, he’s prepared. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know what happened. He maybe had his.

1:05:00 Gordon Einstein: He had his Wheaties this morning. I think he was prepared. I think he was honestly blindsided by the win in 16. He told people that he thought he thought it was not going to win and he wasn’t ready and he had no Washington game. Then he got burned and learned.

1:05:12 And now this time he had a plan and for four years he set it up. And I don’t think anybody expected him to come in with that strong of a cabinet, a cabinet and a plan now. It’s bumpy now, but I mean, he’s super pro crypto and everything that he’s doing seems to be massively bullish. But we’ll see how how it plays out and we’ll see if they can hold it because there’s going to be midterms in 18 months and the Democrats and Warren are going to push back, I believe, to slow it down. What do you think is going to happen? What’s your what’s your view?

1:05:39 Brian Rose: Look, one thing that he’s. Doing intelligently, I think is that this whole stablecoin axe, there’s two of them going through Congress right now. They’re trying to get buy in by Democrats and they are getting it because the problem is, look, I was in politics briefly. I ran to be Mayor of London. And I can see what politicians do is they take an issue, they don’t care how they feel about it, but can they weaponize it for their own votes and gains? They’ll do it.

1:05:59 And for me, it looks like that’s what Warren does with crypto. She just takes it as any red herring, this is the bad guy, this is the bad guy, we’re going to beat it, down vote for me. And so when they do that with something as beloved as crypto and blockchain that can change the world, it’s a shame. And the question is, will she still do that? Yeah. But it feels like more and more people are seeing it as a piece of technology the US should lead in. So I am kind of medium turbolish. But right now, if anything the Democrats can do to stop Trump with his agenda, it’s a win for them. And this could be just a political football that people move back and forth.

1:06:30 And if they do that, it hurts us. And I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I’m still medium term bullish because it feels like it will advance in the US. And ultimately, they have everything that Dubai doesn’t have, that local population, the builders, the scale, the scale, yeah, the scale and maybe the. Ability to influence other countries for better, for worse, at scale. Yeah. You know, when the US talks, people listen. They may not like it, they may not comply, but it is a Boise you can’t ignore, you know, on a, on a global level.

1:06:59 Gordon Einstein: But but look, you’re you, you’ve obviously really sorry. I’m going to switch on you for a second, but you’ve obviously really embraced crypto.

1:07:07 It’s part of what you tell your community about. It’s part of what you engage with them. We’ve had lucky, we’ve been lucky to have some of your family extended, you know, your community, come to our our events and you know, it’s clear that you’ve opened the door for a lot of them, but you’re here. So did you What what’s sorry? What’s your feeling about Dubai and crypto?

1:07:26 Brian Rose: And yeah, look, it’s a great. Question. Look, in 2020 I got thrust into a fight for freedom of speech that I never thought that I would be in. And I had been doing this show like this for 9 years. I had conversations with five, 600 people.

1:07:40 I had had, you know, over 2,000,000 subscribers on YouTube, half a billion views. And we spoke unedited, unscripted, uncensored, always. That’s what London Real was. That was my Gordon Tech Tuesday IP. You know, we don’t edit it. We don’t tell people what to say. And I don’t stop and try to argue people and talk over them. I actually just try to shut up and listen. Like that was the that was how we built the show. Maybe because it was intentional or maybe because I didn’t know better.

1:08:05 Gordon Einstein: And then I’ve watched it. Yeah, I’ve. I’ve been following you. For a while, like I said, it’s surreal to be here, so it’s kind of cool. But yeah, go on. That’s amazing.

1:08:12 Brian Rose: And I didn’t. Even know what I was doing, you know,

1:08:14 Gordon Einstein: it’s like you didn’t maybe even know what you were doing. But now when you look back, you’re like, Oh yeah, I did this intentionally. I did this intentionally because that’s your personality. That’s you believe in.

1:08:22 Brian Rose: And so for me, when I look back, I’m like, man, I had a lot of people in this chair that I really disagreed with. And then I realized two years later, I changed my mind and I actually started agreeing with them. So it was always a place to express opinions where people could learn and listen from each other. And one of the things I learned during the, the, the, the freedom of speech era of, of London, Rio was not only do you have the freedom to speak, but you have the freedom to listen to someone else speak and hear someone else’s opinion.

1:08:47 And I think the ability to change your mind is one of the great signs of intelligence. And so, so many people don’t want to change their mind and the ego doesn’t want to let go. But it’s that’s what the evolution of the show was and the evolution of my life and I continue to evolve. So we were thrust into this April 6th, 2020. We had the second largest YouTube live stream in the world from my studio in London talking to a very controversial AKA conspiracy theorist named David Ike, probably mentioning that.

1:09:13 And it gets me in trouble. And but he had the right to say what he wants to say. And if you don’t want to listen to him, turn it off. There were people at the time on YouTube saying the world was flat and it’s none of my business if you think the earth is flat. But those videos are left up even though they’re crazy.

1:09:27 And yet his videos are being taken down. And so 30 minutes after that interview, that would have gone on to be the most watched podcast in human history. It was going to eclipse at the time, which was Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, where they were smoking weed on there, which was about 5 million views. Our video would have been 20 million views and they pulled it and I that I remember the night like it was yesterday and it it my first reaction was anger and I re uploaded the video that’s how stupid I was.

1:09:51 And then when they took it down again, I reloaded up it again. And then I put a vlog up saying how this is ridiculous and I just didn’t get the new paradigm we were in. And so I got thrust into this global state.

1:10:00 Gordon Einstein: I have anxiety in my. Stomach listening to this Oh my gosh.

1:10:03 Brian Rose: And we made a whole movie about it. It’s called We Will Not be Silenced. It’s an amazing film.

1:10:07 It’s pinned on my ex feet if anybody wants to watch it because I can’t put it on YouTube because I’m no longer on YouTube. That’s a whole nother story. And so look, I got thrust into this and I just reacted. And I don’t know if it was because I’m from America where the 1st Amendment is into our DNA, or just because I’m a human, which just doesn’t make sense. I was the golden child of YouTube.

1:10:24 We were partners, I’d been to the headquarters. They were paying us tons of money to do all this. And immediately they started shutting us down. And so we got into real public fights with YouTube and we ultimately had to launch our own platform to continue the broadcasts, which we did 5 weeks later during lockdown. We built a tech with a short team and we did a live stream.

1:10:43 And if I really think about it, Gordon, it was kind of an ultimate fuck you to the man, the system and said, we’re going to live stream anyways. Even if your trillion dollar tech companies won’t let us, you know, F you, we’re going to do it. And people last night at your event came up to me and said, Brian, thank you. I was in Bali lockdown, I was in Germany lockdown. I was here locked down and I didn’t know what the hell was going on. And I was scared and I was in fear. And just listening, I get an emotional thinking about just listening to you and David talk.

1:11:12 It just set my mind at ease. Now, the fact that we were right about 97% of it, that doesn’t even matter. I just thought that we should be able to talk about it. And so those broadcasts really changed a lot of people’s lives, and it opened my eyes to the censorship and the crypto connection. Well, great question because.

1:11:27 Then I pursued this and, you know, I ran to be Mayor of London because I didn’t like the city and it made me angry. And I lost that race in 21. And I had been keeping crypto on my radar. I had Max Kaiser on my show in 2013 about my first Bitcoin back in 13. He was a very early, early adopter and communicator about crypto. And I started to realize that crypto is their instruments of freedom.

1:11:52 That’s it. And I had a guy named Dan held on my show and Bitcoin, or you know him, and he said, Brian, he said freedom of speech is a luxury. When you don’t have freedom of finance, when you’re you can’t log on to the Internet, when you can’t eat a meal, when you can’t put a roof over your head, freedom of speech is a luxury. And he was right here. I was saying this is the most important thing. And it is important.

1:12:12 But if you don’t have freedom of finance and your money can be taken away from you or your bank accounts can be seized in Canada because you attended A trucker protest, then you have a real big problem. And so I was drawn into crypto and blockchain. I have a degree from MIT. I got 15 years in.

1:12:26 Gordon Einstein: No, I didn’t know that.

1:12:27 Brian Rose: Yeah.

1:12:27 Gordon Einstein: What’s it in?

1:12:28 Brian Rose: It’s actually in. Mechanical engineering, but I was very tech as a kid and then I went straight into banking. So I got 15 years of experience in banking on two or three continents. So and derivatives trading, which is, you know, high tech banking, I guess you could say.

1:12:41 So I have a little background that fits right into this. And so I just dove head first into it hard. And four years ago we started creating an Academy and started teaching it. I had like the top 100 people on my show because we were a channel with 2,000,000 subscribers that didn’t exist in crypto. And so I was having these live broadcasts with Michael Saylor and Justin Sun and all these people.

1:12:59 And then we taught and then we started investing. And so I ran away from banking 15 years ago because I thought money was evil. And now, as they say in The Godfather, just when I try to get out, they dragged me back in. But now I’m investing and now I love it because what did London Real did? London Real took people’s ideas and they amplified them and, and it’s an attention economy. And so now when we invest in a company, I bring the CEO in and we give them capital and attention because we believe in their ideas.

1:13:27 So this isn’t really any different than what I’ve been doing with London Real for the past 14 years, except now we use capital and crypto as opposed to just media and independent media used to magnify these messages. I mean, I had people talking about psychedelics. I had people talking about, you know, activism. I had people talking about sexual energy on my show. You name it, they were talking about it. But now we put capital and crypto behind it and it’s just another way of doing what we do at London Real. That’s it.

1:13:54 Gordon Einstein: You know, we have a mission statement on my It may, it may almost be. The same thing.

1:13:58 Brian Rose: I think it is the same. Thing it’s like matter energy. Equivalence

1:14:00 Gordon Einstein: it is. It’s.

1:14:01 It’s, it’s pretty wild. It’s pretty wild when you really think about it. And so that’s why I I’ve. Heard I’ve heard coherent arguments about how Bitcoin is speech, not preserve speech, not that’s but like the it’s kind of a riff maybe on what you’re saying. I I don’t know if I fully agree with this, but like the ability to transmit value at a distance without censorship.

1:14:24 I mean it is a form of communication. You know everything is information speech is information values information and maybe maybe it’s not just the same coin. Maybe it really is the, maybe it’s not 2 separate things. Maybe it’s two sides of the same coin. And maybe with the work you’re doing with investing with these companies, you have your platform and the finance aspect and maybe it’s an ecosystem.

1:14:46 Brian Rose: Yeah, Michael. Saylor goes deep on this. He’s been on my show twice and it’s it’s been fascinating to watch his brain evolve over five years. He’s an MIT guy as well, graduated a few years before I did. But he’s gone super deep on this. He calls Bitcoin encrypted energy and if you you can go really deep on this and he’s gone back and starts to look at genetics and biology and how this all fits in. And it’s fascinating to watch him evolve. He’s got a black belt and I’m maybe like a blue belt or a purple belt in this.

1:15:12 And because it’s really a paradigm shift and it’s such sound money that I think it it changes how you show up as a human being to this world. So this is where I am right now. We all show up every day and we go work a job and we get our Fiat currency and we spend it and buy something else. But deep down inside Gordon, we all know it’s bullshit. It’s Monopoly money. And even if you don’t have a degree in finance or you don’t know what the Federal Reserve is, you just know there’s something not right.

1:15:36 And so we don’t show 100 show up 100% as humans. You don’t appreciate it and. You don’t appreciate yourself and we’re like. It’s kind of fake and this is all kind of BS and so why am I here and it’s not real? Whereas I feel like when you introduce to Bitcoin or something, it’s it’s real. And now all of a sudden like it’s there’s ownership and there’s something that’s that’s so sound that I think it changes the way you show up as a human.

1:16:01 And let me say one more thing. All of human interactions and relationships are based on transactions. Now, some people might not like that, but it’s true. Every human interaction is really a transaction. It’s value being exchanged. Even spending time with someone is really a transaction. And all of our relationships are basically microtransactions. And so if you can now show up with a sound form of currency in those transactions, I think it changes everything. And then that takes it even further where the Internet is now the Internet of information, but the blockchain is the Internet of ownership.

1:16:30 It really starts to change massively the dynamics of the system. And then when you have things that are immutable, it can make it to where freedom of speech isn’t an issue. If you write something on the Bitcoin blockchain right now, it’s not going anywhere. If some guy in North Korea right now was able to write something, he could write, by the way, I’m here, save me, you know, that’s not going anywhere. And everyone in the world can see it. Whereas where he is, it won’t ever be broadcast anywhere else. So there’s a lot of things going on here, but I’m drawn to this space.

1:16:57 And then we were embraced by this space. When I jumped into it, I thought, OK, here I come in with my suits, I’ll be like, oh, no, get him out of here. And I show up in Dubai, one of the conferences and the, the crypto Bros are embracing me and the, you know, Mar, one of the government’s embracing me. And they were like, no, you’re our people and we were watching you during lockdown. And you’re the ones like us that were questioning the matrix in the system and these things. And so I’ve just found it to be this perfect, perfect evolution of London Real.

1:17:24 And I love doing it and I love London Real in Dubai. Of all things, of all things, I never. Thought I would be here as well. And it’s, it’s at the perfect time where I’m falling out of love with London. You know, London is a romance I’ve had for 20 years.

1:17:37 And look, my children were born there. At one point I planned to die there and I ran to be mayor. And I’ve just my, I named my show after that city. And it was just such an important part of my journey. But now I, I, I’ve just drawn to this place, you know, and this, this feels like the next evolution.

1:17:54 Gordon Einstein: Is this sad?

1:17:55 Brian Rose: No, it’s really exciting because, you know, I have this, this, I have this new place to be.

1:18:00 Gordon Einstein: I I I have a. Wistful feeling. We’re going a little bit off it.

1:18:04 You know, Los Angeles just burned. And that’s where I, that’s where I grew up and my mom is sort of around that area. So the Pacific Palisades, where I grew up is gone, apparently. I’ve seen pictures, you know, and on one hand, I’ve mentally divorced from the US four years ago in my in my brain. On the other hand, you know, I did grow up there for 1520 years.

1:18:23 And when you were talking about London, I was getting a little wistful because it’s like, there’s, you know, this place in my memory. You’re like, you can’t go home again. Like now you really can’t. Like, it’s gone. It is gone.

1:18:35 And, you know, on one hand, it’s liberating because it’s like, OK, well, what’s now, you know, you know, how many, how many years like I left, you know, I’m not going to be, you know, Mr. Nostalgic Guy, I’m going to do stuff. But you know, London was something great and Southern California was something great. I, I think it’s, I think it’s our jobs as mature adults with kids to do what we can to make it the greatness again or new so that they can be in that environment. You know, I’m, I’m, I’m motivated. I was already motivated that way to, you know, I told him my inspiration for blockchain.

1:19:06 But now that I’ve produced a life, you know, is doing it. And I I know you. Yeah. And you’re doing that? Here now, right,

1:19:12 Brian Rose: that’s yes, because. I’m, I’m maximally effective here, yeah. And also.

1:19:16 Gordon Einstein: You can’t do it there.

1:19:17 Brian Rose: No, I can’t. I. Do it in LA and I can’t do it. In London, Yeah, Well, what? What am I?

1:19:20 Supposed to do in Los Angeles and you’re voting with your. Feet, Gordon. And I think that’s really important. You’re showing them somehow, if anyone’s watching that it’s not OK with you what they’re doing and you’re coming here to do it. And I think that’s important to give that feedback loop. And sooner or later someone will listen and maybe it will change. But for the next 20-30, forty 50 years, Europe is definitely on the decline. the US might turn it around with Trump and and some people thinking differently and it has the best chance to turn it around.

1:19:48 But Europe isn’t. And I think all of the innovation and talent drain is going to come right over to the Gulf, I believe. Isn’t it strange? It’s. Fascinating.

1:19:56 Gordon Einstein: Did you? I mean, we’re talking about did you expect this?

1:19:58 Brian Rose: Never saw that coming. Never saw that because London was always the the, you know, the innovator of Europe, the more American version of Europe, the free market of Europe. And when I was in the City of London, it was the IT wasn’t it was the second financial capital to New York, but it was, you know, second to that and it LED everything. That’s a big deal, and it was a big deal, and the City of London is a very.

1:20:15 Interesting concept.

1:20:16 Gordon Einstein: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it was, it was, it was the original major financial centre. I mean, it really was. Is it?

1:20:22 Brian Rose: Offshore, in the middle, in the middle of the island. Yeah, it’s this small. Little one square mile area where it all happens. You know, it’s a fascinating place. It’s cool and I had an amazing time there. But now things are changed and now it’s time to kind of move on and and go elsewhere.

1:20:37 And so it’s sad, but I don’t see any of the way and I just, I feel like feel like it’s just going to continue grinding down. OK. So yes, so yeah, that that just. Kind of brought us here and then, you know, and then now we’re in blockchain and blockchain is just this whole new world and yeah, I love it. I love empowering people, I love telling stories. I love not only giving people attention, but then capital and all those things.

1:21:01 So this is just this natural progression and evolution for us and it brings me here, so.

1:21:06 Gordon Einstein: I’ll say something about Dubai that and I think you may be trying to solve it. So the other like Silicon Valley or the US where I’m from there there’s a well developed investment ecosystem with venture capitalists and private equity. And you know, this round that round around be around there. There’s a you have a go to people for raising capital.

1:21:28 I think that in the Middle East in general, they don’t quite have that psychology yet. What they’re what they’re used to is they understand infrastructure. They understand

1:22:35 And real estate, they understand stuff like that. They they don’t, they don’t quite have the venture mentality yet. I think that as that problem gets solved, it’s a little bit of a cultural thing, OK? But as that problem gets solved and people start making money that way that you’re going to see a whole nother level of blossom here. I know you’re interacting with different Angel groups and, you know, making your beneficial ecosystem. I, I, I, I think that’s the way to go. You need to get your friends and family, your angels and your VCs all lined up here.

1:23:08 Imagine once it’s not just software wealth funds writing $100 million checks, but you have all these VC offices writing the 500,000 or $1,000,000 checks, then it will really blossom. It’d be nice to have that. Infrastructure here for sure.

1:23:19 Brian Rose: The whatever happened in Silicon Valley is just this. It’s pretty fascinating if you actually go look at the history of the evolution of all that.

1:23:26 People take it back to the space program and how that all of all existed and how it was kicked off by that government spending and then later led to the VCs and this whole machine out there. Also a crypto. It’s, you know, it’s completely decentralized too. So you got people investing all over the place with legal entities all over the place. And so maybe it’s even harder there because it was never like a geographic location or mentality or even culture. So you got that mixed on top of like you said, the issues that you talk about, not like this infrastructure of different levels, but it’s kind of

1:23:56 Gordon Einstein: let me touch. On that for a second, you see a lot of this more than I. Am I’m glad you brought this up.

1:24:01 So this is what I was talking about the the diversity of geography and law is an inhibition to investing. How do I know whether or not to invest in that Vietnamese company? How do I do due diligence on it? How do I know whether Luxembourg or Liechtenstein has the best fund structure in all this? It is, you know, we, we have our accounts and we have our express and everything else, but there’s just so much stuff there. It’s it’s overly complex.

1:24:27 And with these crypto projects, you know, you have a contract with someone in this other country, you know, where do you sue them? What do you do, you know, and all that challenge. So imagine this is what I was, what I was and am working on. Imagine if you have a global regime of of programmatically enforced contracts where you say this company is not set up in Vietnam, this company is set up on Ethereum. It is a Dow or you know, a distributed or assuming decentralized autonomous organization or a DAC decentralized autonomous company. You know, if you want to do the profit version, people don’t. People mostly say Dow, but you know, just say DAC. OK, Imagine rather than having Delaware Corporation, you have a Polygon DAC, OK, And now you know where it is. It’s on that blockchain.

1:25:15 You know that for a contract to be enforceable against it, it has to be a smart contract, OK, And you know that you have an Oracle to resolve disputes. That would put investment on steroids. I know I no longer need to review this stupid English language contract where someone slipped in some sense that kills me, you know, and they forgot to mention it on the third draft. But you have code and the code is auditable. Think about how efficient that makes life and how good it makes it.

1:25:42 So I, I think this is one thing that, you know, when you mentioned the government connections, this is something I was doing a few years ago working, I don’t want to name because of the contract I have with them, but I was working with a specular jurisdiction on getting their crowdfunding law fixed. It’s, it’s a country nearby. It’s not Arab speaking. OK. And I didn’t break any sanctions.

1:26:01 So it’s the other one. OK, but but the, but you know, I was working on that and then you know, it’s, it’s tough because you have so many contrary interest and everything else. Well, when you part of these contract interests exist and maintain a position because they can operate in the shadows. But when you put it all on blockchain, it’s all visible. You can see who did what. So I, I hope that this region, I don’t think you, like you said, I don’t think Europe is going to make it. Maybe the US will buy.

1:26:25 I hope this region embraces smart blockchain and smart contract based entities and contracts. You know, like RAC, DAO, Russell came a DAO. You know, once we get legally recognized Dows and enforceable contracts on blockchain, you’re going to open up a whole new world. That’d be incredible. And then that can surpass and I think it’ll make life easier.

1:26:46 For you and your community, yeah, also. And that could even. Surpass, you know, the equity world and the traditional world because it would leap ahead sure of what’s being done, you know, off blockchain and that would obviously make it or they migrate on. Because they have to. They might have to, Yeah.

1:26:59 And. Then it would be speed of light. And yeah, I would, I would love that world. I hope we go there and I hope. I think I think it starts.

1:27:07 To work. I think we are the I don’t know if you were maybe you weren’t in crypto at this point, but the the the first there’s the the Dow, which went on Ethereum and unfortunately it got hacked. Yeah, I know. OK. But you know.

1:27:19 Growth pains. But the whole idea there was that people would invest their Ethereum into that Dow and then they would do a vote on what to invest in other, other projects. It’s it’s it’s an idea that’s been around for a while and it makes perfect sense, you know, but railroads crashed when we first built them, you know? Yeah. And they were sloppy. And, you know, now China’s building for high speed trains. It just takes practice.

1:27:38 Brian Rose: Yeah. Well, I’m. I’m I’m optimistic and you can learn a lot from railroads, by the way. Yeah, in tech development, I mean, over building and the consolidation and like, yes, 100% fascinating stories talking about ADHD. OK, because it’s something that, you know, you mentioned you wanted to talk about something I haven’t talked about too much.

1:27:56 Is it a bug or a feature? Is it a superpower?

1:27:59 Gordon Einstein: Oh wow. OK, that’s interesting.

1:28:00 Brian Rose: And then also how does it? Cross over to a lot of successful people we see out there like the Elon Musk’s of the world right

1:28:07 Gordon Einstein: so I. I, this is something I, I speak about kind of publicly. I don’t want to get my public persona entirely, but I, I think it’s worth, it’s like the speech impediment thing or, or getting over to their shyness on stage.

1:28:20 I think it’s worth sharing with people because it’s someone watching this can relate. Maybe they can do something about it and maybe they can do something about it earlier than I did something about it. So I grew up in the 70s, OK, before the Internet and all the, all this other stuff. And I have it, I do have ADHD and I, it happened at a point where it wasn’t widely known and you know, it manifested itself as, you know, Gordon can’t focus or he’s not motivated or all this other stuff. And so I got all this negative messaging growing up and I raw doctor the expression is all the way through law school OK and pass the bar with ADHD.

1:28:54 But you do with huge amounts of pain and focus and adrenaline burnout and cortisol and just brute forced it through. I brute forced it through. But I brute forced it through in a way that exacted a toll, OK, in the moment, in long term, OK. And you know, I think when you’re younger you can simulate dopamine and serotonin with adrenaline and cortisol. But eventually you burnout those glands and you can’t stress yourself out anymore. And you’re just like, and so post law school, I was able to get finally as an adult, a diagnosis, you know, 35 years in and it’s since become it’s, it’s challenging to get medication in the Middle East.

1:29:32 So that’s what that’s one, that’s one issue that I think maybe they need to work on just because, you know, they’re, they’re used to physical issues, they’re not used to mental issues, but I think they’re getting a little bit better there. Nowhere’s perfect, but it’s now I’d say it’s a blend of bug and feature. OK, so So what are the bugs? There is if something’s not novel, it’s it’s not funny considering what I’m doing with tech is it’s something’s not novel.

1:29:58 It’s something’s novel and it’s shiny. You get all engaged with it. As soon as it becomes regular or you’re used to it, it’s your dopamine drops because the novelty factor is down and it’s very hard to initiate action and maintain action. So you know, new workout routine, great, exciting. Then you lose interest or new language, you know, new hobby, you know, it happens again and again and again. It can be very disheartening.

1:30:18 With the right medication and the right meditation and a few other things, you can compensate for that or mask it or deal with it. I think, I think all this stuff is manageable. There’s an impulse thing that sometimes, you know, ADHD shows up differently, different people, there’s impulse control. There’s a 10 different issues. You know, everyone’s, every ADHD case is its own most special flower. I think as you get older and you get to know yourself and certain stories repeat over and over again, you have to be a little bit blind not to eventually realize a pattern. And once I know you’re into meditation and yoga once, once you ruminate on it, you kind of get to know yourself. You can kind of intercept some of these things and and moderate them.

1:31:01 OK, what’s good about ADHD? I think ADHD, you know, the flip side of impulsiveness, which can get you in trouble, is audaciousness. It’s bravery. It’s saying what’s on your mind and not having fear. It’s, you know, being controlled.

1:31:18 You know that part I like. It’s like, you know, who starts Tech Tuesdays in the middle of summer not knowing anyone here? I mean, of course I know people. You know, I did. I have the impulse. The impulse took me.

1:31:28 OK, who goes to Dubai for no reason? I do OK, who, who, who goes to Ukraine in rebel war? I do OK. You know, it’s like sometimes I just say F it where other people wouldn’t. And I’ve learned to temper that and direct it and not go too crazy with it. But like, you know, if, if that little spider sense tells me something, I listen to my spider sense because that spider sense is pretty good and it allows for a lot of stuff. ADHD is good because it allows for lateral and creative thinking, You know, now why does it this wandering mind thing is a little bit of the hunter brain, OK, Like we’re there’s a evolutionary theory of it that, you know, there’s the ones who stayed at home were farmers.

1:32:09 They don’t have ADHD. They can sit at home for the whole season and make their crop. The hunters and the guardians have to go out and they have to be aware that the lions over there, they can’t get too focused with the Berry in front of them, right. So that lets that gives you a lot of intuition. You can tell when people are lying.

1:32:23 You can read A room, you can see when someone’s acting slightly differently or, or you can also because you don’t have complete inhibition control. You can your mind will make connections in disparate areas that other people wouldn’t make and you come off as very creative. OK, you can be. It’s sometimes like the, the the lack of a Moat between different parts of your brain let’s it slosh around. It’s not as messy, but sometimes it comes up with a new beautiful, you know, drink or whatever however you want to say it, you have to worry about.

1:32:52 Brian Rose: Not being aware of human emotions, does that come along with that there?

1:32:57 Gordon Einstein: There’s there’s AI, there is a little bit of that’s a great question. Say, I’ll say it again, sure as as a undiagnosed youth or young person with ADG ADC, sure it’s a it’s a danger you could offend people. And not be you can be impulsive. With your language right, you can seek dopamine by annoying others. That’s a real thing.

1:33:22 You can pick fights because of stimulating.

1:33:24 Brian Rose: OK, OK, a lack of empathy. Too,

1:33:26 Gordon Einstein: well, it’s funny. ADC people usually have a strong justice sense. Interesting. OK, that we’re very sensitive to injustice because this is right. And I don’t care about your feelings per SE, This is more right.

1:33:37 And that overrides or I’ve. Will get offended on someone else’s. It’s it’s common. You can Google it and and see it there, there it is. You have a you have a very strong truth sense like like untruth and noise is annoying, OK, and injustice is inflammatory OK, And you know, if you’re nice to someone and they end up being mean to you for no reason, you get extremely pissed off, not just a normal pissed off.

1:34:03 So it, you know, a lot of crusaders and fighters, you know, have that justice sense and maybe they’re a little bit ADHD. The thing is you maybe can get too involved with that stuff and not my team bounce. You know, everything, everything in life is flow and everything in life is balanced and everything in life is, you know, adjusting for the current situation and not, you know, having guidelines and not rules. So you, I, I think hopefully that some as you get older and you watch yourself and watch other people, you gain a little bit of distance and little bit of equanimity and temperance on this stuff.

1:34:33 But it, it never totally goes away. And I’m not sure I want it to totally go away because it, it is kind of fun. I mean, you know, the, the getting on stage and enjoying it, you know, is a, and doing a kind of like, you know, self vindication reversal of the social anxiety of younger. But I don’t, I don’t know if that would still scratch my itch if I didn’t have a DHDADHD. But it does scratch an itch now. It’s kind of fun.

1:34:55 It’s kind of a reversal of, you know, being the oddball out as a kid. So I, I think, I think it’s, you know, you mentioned there’s a lot of entrepreneurs that are successful with it, but there’s a lot of people who aren’t successful with it. And it, it’s a lifelong affliction if it, if it’s not managed. So I, I don’t want to sugarcoat it. I, I think the trick with it is to, and there’s, there’s a lot of negative stereotypes about it, OK.

1:35:25 There’s things like, oh, it’s over diagnosed or, you know, let boys be boys or all this other stuff, you know, but that kind of goes out the window when you see the brain scans and you see the different brain structures associated with it. No one says, oh, let’s go to phrenics, be schizophrenics, OK. When you actually see that the prefrontal cortex is differently developed in the ADHD people, you know, the kind of the boys, boys be boys thing go out the window.

1:35:48 You can say Tommy’s different. We can see the issue there. I think the thing with ADHD is you need to have, you need to have it diagnosed, you need to have it treated. You need to be gentle with yourself, but you need to maintain responsibility for your life. Even if you lose your legs, you still are responsible for your life. You can, you know whatever happens, you are responsible for you.

1:36:08 No one’s coming to save you. OK, But part of the part of taking a responsibility for yourself is accurately understanding your situation so that you can take responsibility for what’s going on. So I think with all this mental stuff, it’s important to share it with the world and own it and and work with it. I think it’s an important. Lesson so if you are, you know, not suffering with but if you have that ADHD or you know someone like that, sometimes it’s suffering. Yeah, to be aware.

1:36:34 Of it, but also not to accept it as your fate and not to blame everything else on that, but to take, you know, action and control to put you into places where normally that would pull you back.

1:36:43 Brian Rose: And that’s probably why you can be successful. And it really resonated when you said put yourself on stage. I mean, I I have no natural inclination to be on stage. I actually have.

1:36:51 Gordon Einstein: Is that true, Brian?

1:36:52 Brian Rose: It is true

1:36:53 Gordon Einstein: you’re. Very good.

1:36:54 Brian Rose: But I mean. And I have no natural inclination to be in a room full of people on a Tuesday night. Like, I have to push myself to get out of my introverted little bubble and pushed myself when I first started doing London Real conversations.

1:37:06 I like, it was really uncomfortable. I used to stress about the guests coming over all day. My stomach boil. I’m like, they’re coming over to my studio. Oh, my God, is this going to be right? I got to do this, got to do that. And I had to really push myself to be out there and same to be on stage.

1:37:20 I mean, that was really hard. I mean, do I do my first Ted Talk? That was hard. Even going on stages.

1:37:25 Gordon Einstein: I saw that.

1:37:25 Oh, my God. Yeah. You did great.

1:37:27 Brian Rose: Yeah. But I, I. That was something that was really hard to do so, but now that I forced myself to put myself out there, that’s how it works.

1:37:35 Gordon Einstein: So as an introvert, I think your superpower is forcing yourself to be an extrovert. Because extroverts, unfortunately, if you’re only an expert all the time, you need your energy, you need to be out. And you see people like that. I got to be out. I got to be with other people.

1:37:47 And when they’re alone, they’re freaking out. An introvert usually is freaking out when they’re in a a social.

1:37:52 Brian Rose: I’m so happy alone. Yeah, I’m so. I’m so happy reading a book. I’m not talking to anyone, but I know that. Nothing happens in my life if I do that. Yeah.

1:37:59 And I also know that ultimately I don’t get fulfilled because it’s like I need to. I need to push myself. So I go out and force myself in these situations and I think it’s really good advice for anybody out there to try to push yourself into something you’re not comfortable with. And if you’re an extrovert, try spending time alone, planning your life and maybe if you’re an introvert, try putting yourself on stage and and then you’ll end up liking it. It’s like boxing. I mean, nothing is completely further from my nature than boxing.

1:38:24 I was the skinny science geek who like was beat up as a kid and was never athletic and all of that. And I just wanted to be alone and be doing all my things. But when I go out there to to this uncomfortable place, that’s when all the learning happens. And that’s when I’m like, oh, wow. And I get so much more fulfilment from that too. Just like why probably you do when you go on stage because it’s like, wow, look, I’m doing this. And then you’re kind of enjoying it and then you’re kind of working on it and it can be a little bit of a buzz. You know to do that, it’s definitely a buzz, right? The, the, the funny risk.

1:38:56 Gordon Einstein: Yeah, you’re way funny. The funny thing is, like most things, you can’t stay in one place because you get used to it. You know, if you’re used to speaking in front of 10 people, eventually it’s not threatening anymore. Then you have to go to 15, then you have to go to 25. So I’m pushing myself to bigger and bigger crowds. And it’s going to sound funny, but I’m pushing myself to not take Tuesdays.

1:39:17 I’m pushing myself to more and more hostile crowds, or at least neutral crowds, people who are not natively my friends, people who maybe even don’t like me for some reason, you know, maybe it’s a bias for some reason. And then, you know, turning them around. It’s like, it’s like a thrill seeking behavior. Now, as far as thrill seeking behaviors go, public speaking is not the worst, you know. There’s. There’s many worse thrill seeking behaviors, but it’s kind of fun.

1:39:40 It’s it’s like, you know, speaking up, you know, when the room isn’t with you.

1:39:43 Brian Rose: Yeah, that’s you’re almost becoming a stand. Up, comedian. At that point you walk into a place where you have to start creating a rapport from nothing and the people already don’t like you because you know you’re not live making them laugh or entertaining them right away or something.

1:39:55 Gordon Einstein: Yeah. Because I’ve gone into venues where. Everyone knows who I am and that’s, well, first it’s hard, but then it’s easy.

1:40:00 So it’s like, now go to somewhere that doesn’t like you and now go this. And now I try to like, now I walk out in the audience and now I try to do things that are just pushing it a little bit to show if I can get that people love that. Yeah, they do like that. You know some people. Really hate you.

1:40:13 And some people be like, wow, he’s they, they admire your authenticity. It’s just, I think it’s just. Practice. It takes time. It’s practice that’s. Not something but you, you know, you can’t always lift the same weight, right?

1:40:23 It’s something you’ll stall out. You have to keep on adding plates. So they keep on adding plates is bigger audience, more diverse audience, less affinity oriented audiences. You know, for for me, it’s a buzz.

1:40:35 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s kind.

1:40:36 Of funny. I encourage everybody to go for it. I think I’m probably. Exuding buzz energy because I’m visualizing it. 10 years from now, Morden, where are you going to be?

1:40:45 What are you going to be doing? Your son will be 10 years old boy.

1:40:49 Gordon Einstein: OK, God, everything’s in God’s hands. I strongly believe that, OK? And I pray every morning and you know, everything, everything is in God’s hands. So God willing, God willing, maybe there’ll be another kid. Maybe it’ll be the two more kids.

1:41:04 Brian Rose: OK, Mr. Late start.

1:41:05 Here you know.

1:41:06 Gordon Einstein: Better late than never. OK, God willing, God willing, Dubai will be one of our major bases, but I would really like to have my dacha in Ukraine. OK, I don’t know if you’ve ever had the dacha experience, but it’s dacha. Dacha is basically so in the Russian world, and people get offended by that idea, but it’s in the Slavic world. But you have your main city residence, maybe an apartment, but then you have a country home 203040 kilometers out from the city and you go there on the weekend. And that country home can be a ramshackle shack that needs a lot of work, or it can be like a miniature Versailles, just depending on which level oligarchy you are. And you go out there with your buddies and you make shashlik, which is Russian BBQ or XOV BBQ, however you want to do it. You have your ineviating beverages, you, you have your friends, you have, you can have your sauna with the Bendic, which is the, you know, the Birch trees. Go watch each other with yeah, banya. The whole sounds like you, that world Banya is amazing. It’s like makes you really happy. So I I have the I have a certain visualization of maybe in the Carpathian Mountains.

1:42:13 I have a visualization of like a mountain dacha home, obviously on the nicer side, God willing, hopefully in Switzerland also. I want to be going Take Tuesday’s, take Tuesday’s. We didn’t really talk about this. This is a, this is a business generation machine. It’s not crass about it. Everyone, it is what it looks like, but you can’t not do this. So you can’t do this and not have opportunity to show up. And they are showing up.

1:42:41 They’re showing up for me and Siam and my wife and everyone around us. Everyone around us is benefiting. You know, we’re not, we don’t have our fingers and everything. We’re letting them benefit. We want an ecosystem. So I want what we’re doing now.

1:42:52 I want more and better of what we’re doing now. I want to stay on the same track and keep on pushing it. I want to be involved in more projects that make the world a better place, crypto or not, blockchain or not. OK, I have 3 standards for any project I’m involved in, and one of them sounds mercenary. But it needs to.

1:43:09 I’m not going to use that for it, even though I normally use it here. It needs to be like a ton of money. It needs to make a ton of cool. It makes the world a ton better place. OK, OK. Instead of time, use a different word. OK, so all three things must be true or else I’m not interested. OK, All three, Yeah.

1:43:26 OK, Yeah. It’s trinary, OK, not binary. It needs to make the world better. It needs to be cool. It needs to make a lot of money.

1:43:33 If it’s not that, I’d rather read a book. I like it. OK. Those three. Look, there’s God bless people install carpets. I don’t want to do it.

1:43:41 It may make a lot of money. I don’t want to do it. OK. It’s like I and if something is fun and makes a lot of money but doesn’t make the world better, it’s like, no, it’s not, it’s not for me. I want to make the world better. And there’s, but there’s lots of things that do all three. It’s, it’s not like I’m being a monk. I just want to focus on that stuff. I want people around me who focus on that stuff. And so I want to do it from and I want to further my relationship with God and spirituality. That’s something that’s been developing the past decade or so that I, I don’t know if you can ever say the word progress in connection with that, but I’ve developed my practice, however you want to say it.

1:44:16 That’s important for me. That’s the centering I need. That’s this spirituality I need. And I don’t mean this in the abstract sense. I mean like a direct relationship and doing the best I can without arrogance.

1:44:27 I’m just doing, just doing whatever I can.

1:44:30 Brian Rose: Yeah. And I think that’s a pull plate. Stay healthy. That’s a pull.

1:44:35 Following your footsteps of boxing and I like that. Trinary as well. I like that. That’s super cool. Cool.

1:44:41 Make the world a better place, make a ton of money. Yeah, great. Some gems here. How can people learn more about Tech Tuesdays and join the next one? What’s the best way?

1:44:50 Gordon Einstein: OK, so. We’re building out the website eventually, that’ll be the best way, but the easiest way right now is to go to Instagram and follow to buy Tech Tuesdays. OK. There’s a link to our calendar in there. OK.

1:45:02 And then we’re also on LinkedIn. We have a company page that’s growing pretty fast. You can just follow that company page. And we also have a Telegram group. It’s getting big.

1:45:10 It’s getting, it is getting big. You notice that? Notice that? Yeah. Yeah, it well. We’re, we’re at an inflection point. Apparently the like I mentioned before, we’re going for curated managed growth or I don’t know if I mentioned this, we’re not going for pure scale, OK?

1:45:28 We need to maintain the vibe. We need to improve the vibe. So I’m being selective about the growth. I’m not like, oh, these numbers, but it’s nice to be constrained and under control and then nonetheless, nonetheless, watch it grow. And now the word is getting out just real fast anecdote. So I don’t know if you were there two times ago when we had Galactic on stage.

1:45:52 We’ll bring you back in. It’s OK, You’re allowed to miss one. Sorry. But the, the guy who brought them in, real cool guy Raymond. You know, I’ve been thinking about working with him for a while and we kind of just played Footsie with it.

1:46:03 You know, he’s like, well, I’m busy and I’m like, OK, fine. He, he goes and he’s a cool guy. But you know, he, he goes to Milan, He’s in some high level business meeting. Some woman from Dubai walks in Bah, Bah, Bah, Bah, Bah. She on her own brings up Dubai Tech Tuesdays.

1:46:17 Oh, have you been to this? It’s so good you’re in Dubai. Have you been to this? And he calls me up and he goes, Gordon, fine, we’ll work together. OK. It’s some random woman and she’s very wealthy and good looking at everything else.

1:46:28 If this woman brings it up, there’s a guy telling me to work together. So, you know, I like I like that things are like the the the lines are beginning to connect and I don’t want it to happen too fast. I don’t want it to happen too slow. I want it to just happen. And so that’s going on right now. So yeah, the Telegram group is growing fast. But to answer your question directly, the easiest in is to go on Telegram Dubai Tech Tuesday is one word. Follow it.

1:46:52 Brian Rose: You’ll get in the stream right? Telegram and. Instagram both

1:46:55 Gordon Einstein: Dubai tech. Telegram Group is private because we’re managing it, but if they get in the Dubai Tech Tuesday to get. On Instagram, they’ll.

1:47:01 See the event calendar?

1:47:02 Brian Rose: Yeah and then it’s in easy end. Perfect I. Love it. Yeah, Gordon, I’m really glad I met you.

1:47:08 It was really random. I was having another dinner with some friends in October last year and you were doing the Dubai Tech Tuesday that night in the venue and I just walked in and that’s How I Met you. You invited me to come on and then we did it six months later or 4, three months.

1:47:22 Gordon Einstein: Can I give you some credit? There,

1:47:24 Brian Rose: Yeah, sure

1:47:25 Gordon Einstein: you’re.

1:47:25 A man of your. Word. You came in there and I was like, oh, wow, Brian Rose is here. Neat. We talked briefly and we did a brief information exchange.

1:47:31 I said, look, I’d love to have you come join us. And you’re like, you gave me a yes that I didn’t know whether to take seriously. OK. And then you’re like, I’m leaving. I’ll come back in a few months. I’m like, OK, I’ll never see him again. But I, I texted you, you remembered and you did what you said you were going to do.

1:47:47 You had the consistency and integrity to follow through. And now here we are and, you know, enjoying getting to know each other more. And I, you know, I thank you so much for bringing your show. And, you know, thanks for coming to the event. It’s cool.

1:47:57 Brian Rose: So you you said something and you followed through 1-2 months later. It’s very undue by you told me that a. Couple of times and you’re right, yeah. That’s great for me. I don’t know. I don’t.

1:48:07 Know if it’s my grandparents or my parents or whatever, but for me it’s like if you say you gonna do something you have to do

1:48:12 Gordon Einstein: Yeah, your word is your. Bond, be a man of your word. Yeah, and if you do that here, it’s a superpower. Okay, I like that. Really good feedback as well.

1:48:19 Brian Rose: Yeah. I’m so glad I met you. Everyone’s got to go to this event. It’s an amazing event. I love going every time.

1:48:24 It also, I like it steps my game up and I come downtown and I dress up and there’s always amazing people there, amazing looking people there, amazing vibes, amazing convo. So Congrats on that. Congrats on fatherhood as well.

1:48:35 Gordon Einstein: Thank you.

1:48:36 Brian Rose: And yeah, looking forward to this, this journey together. Gordon, it was great.

1:48:40 Gordon Einstein: Thank you. Thank. You so much. I appreciate it.

1:48:51 Brian Rose: Appreciate you too. And I want to say thank you to Web Three TV. We’ll see you next time.