Sami Chlagou - Creating A Web3 Gaming Revolution: How Cross The Ages Surpasses Web2 & Dominates App Stores

Full transcript: Sami Chlagou on London Real

2:44 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Sami Chlagou, the video game developer, entrepreneur, and NFT pioneer. You are the CEO and co-founder of Cross the Ages, a unique metaverse and digital collectible card game that launched in April this year. Since then, the game has spent 15 weeks at the top of the charts in the App Store and sold $2.5 million worth of NFTs in a matter of days.

3:09 Your game brings together some of the most talented figures in the world of entertainment, including authors, artists, musicians, and developers to create what you have described as a dystopian universe where fantasy and science fiction come together. Your personal passion for gaming and collectible cards began at a young age, and you have spent your career creating video games for companies such as Nintendo, PlayStation, and Xbox. Ultimately, Cross the Ages is bridging the gap from Web 2 to Web 3, and you believe that NFTs in the metaverse will create mass adoption of the blockchain.

3:43 Brian Rose: Sami, welcome back to London Real.

3:45 Sami Chlagou: No, thank you. You do it so well. I’m impressed.

3:49 Brian Rose: It’s great to have you back here, man.

3:51 I just want to start by saying that Cross the Ages was our very first portfolio company here at London Real Ventures, which is the world’s first media-powered investment firm where our mission is to transform the world by investing in cutting-edge Web 3 and AI companies while giving our partners marketing exposure across the London Real media platforms and academies. We heighten awareness, create customers, and build communities by leveraging our global audience and extensive network. Sami, we are super excited to be part of this journey with you, and so let’s jump in.

4:21 Brian Rose: Tell people what is Cross the Ages and what has happened in the last two years since we sat down together.

4:26 Sami Chlagou: Before to jump, I have something for you. You’re also talking about the venture and your investment. I have a present for you if you can open it. All right, check this out.

4:35 Brian Rose: Sami rolled up with this beautiful package, by the way. I don’t know if you can see. It’s got the Cross the Ages logo.

4:42 Sami Chlagou: Black and black, yeah.

4:43 Brian Rose: Oh my gosh.

4:44 And so I really wanted to open it, and I guess now I get to open it now. So first of all, thank you very much.

4:49 Sami Chlagou: You’re welcome.

4:49 Brian Rose: I appreciate this, but they say beware of Greeks bearing gifts. All right, so we’ll see what’s going on here.

4:54 All right, what is going on here? Uh-oh. All right, it’s got the Brian Rose patch here. Something’s happening here. Ah, okay.

5:06 Cross the Ages hats, right, on top. And there’s something else underneath. So booyah. There you go. Rapping.

5:15 And then what’s down here, man? Oh, this is what I’m talking. Oh, this thing is so fresh. I mean, come on, I wear a tracksuit when I breakdance, but this thing is next level. Oh my gosh, Sami.

5:31 Brian Rose: All right, now tell me what is going on here, because this is your signature Cross the Ages jacket with a twist, right?

5:38 Sami Chlagou: Yep.

5:38 Brian Rose: Beautiful.

5:39 Sami Chlagou: And with a patch, you can put your patch and have it, you know, with your name on it.

5:44 Brian Rose: My name on it.

5:45 Brian Rose: And I know that you love breakdance, and it’s going to be perfect for you when you dance with it. This thing is absolutely beautiful, man. Thank you so much.

5:52 Sami Chlagou: You’re welcome. Yeah.

5:53 Brian Rose: And this is a special one.

5:55 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, exactly. Investor and only member of the team, so it’s very few of them. And you have the number of that, and you have the patch on it, and it’s irreversible. So yeah, super happy to bring that.

6:06 Brian Rose: Thank you so much, man. I’m going to wear this with pride. Wherever I go, I’m always talking about you and Cross the Ages, and maybe me. I know. Whether it’s Paris or whatever, I’m like, do you know who this guy is?

6:17 Brian Rose: It’s like crazy, man. I’m so honored to be a part of this journey with you guys. I’m so honored to be here.

6:23 Sami Chlagou: So it’s a long journey for us, and I’m really happy to explain to you what’s happened since I come the first time. Well, let’s jump into it.

6:31 Brian Rose: So thank you, by the way. I’ll be supporting this later. Check my Instagram. Tell everybody who doesn’t know what is Cross the Ages, and then what’s happened in the last two years since we sat down. Because what a crazy market.

6:43 I mean, when we sat down, Bitcoin was hitting its high. Yeah. You guys had gotten your funding and were building. Yeah. So tell us what’s Cross the Ages and what’s happened.

6:53 Sami Chlagou: Here we go. So Cross the Ages is an IP. This is a 360 vision, and we didn’t start with a game. We start with a book, with a story, with author, seven authors to write like seven book for 10 years. So the two first book made 1.2 million download, translate so you have it in French, English, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, Polish, and soon Korean.

7:19 You will have the physical version since April. So this is the first leak on this video. In April, we’re going to release the physical book. We’re happy because we’re going to have that in many language. And the concept of Cross the Ages is to create something with emotion, to bring people inside a story, to make them love the character.

7:44 And we’re using exactly the same mechanic that Harry Potter or Game of Thrones, where you are inside a story, and you see the character on it. And then we created the game. The first game is called gaming, the TCG, trading called game. Why? Because this is the best model of application.

8:04 Having this trading called game and using the NFT behind is the perfect match. So this is the first experience in gaming, but next year, in the middle of the year, before end of the year, you will have the second game called Arise. And this is going to be an open word, completely different, more for the mass market. Why we didn’t start with this mass market game? Because we want first to create a community.

8:33 And the card gaming is the best way to create a community. But Cross the Ages is more than that. It’s a movie animation. It’s comics. It’s so many things.

8:42 It’s e-sports. It’s competition. It’s trading. So everyone can come and pick whatever they want across the ages. And I think that when you ask me the second question, what’s happened in the two last year?

8:56 We made our Arise in November to December 2021. The Super Bowl markets. When everything was completely crazy, where the token doing X200 was the minimum. And then start winter. The winter is coming from January to almost now.

9:17 And it’s become very difficult because people start to leave the ecosystem. You don’t have this way of having a play to earn. And people, when they’re not going to earn money, they leave. So we start to build again and again to develop the game, to be sure that we’re going to be able to release the game. And we release the game, finally, the 29th March.

9:41 So beginning of April. We launched the game in mobile version. App Store, Play Store, and also in computer. And this is pretty new because web tree games are not on the phone usually. And it was pretty impressive to see how people react when they’ve seen it.

9:59 And for, like you say, it starts by eight weeks and then now it’s six weeks. The game is in top chart on App Store. Not yet in Play Store, but it’s coming. And really interesting to see, like in many different countries, starting with France, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Australia, Japan. And now we’re developing and getting more and more players, more and more users every day.

10:26 So it’s a pretty great satisfaction for us to see like we’re coming from so far. We have a game not finished. I think that we are at 40% of the game today. We will have like a very high update in January, but like we’re moving on that step by step.

10:47 Brian Rose: Wow.

10:47 I mean, when you’re getting up there to be like number one in the App Store, like compared with some of the games that, you know, people grew up with and household names, like how’s that?

10:59 Sami Chlagou: Clash Royale, Pokemon Go, Runeterra, Earthstone, so many games, you know, that you have like on phone, Marvel Snap, and like all those games. You know, it’s if your game is shit and like you do promotion or you pay, you know, to have like some position to go better, you will be destroyed by metrics and like people will leave feedback and the feedback will be bad.

11:21 So the game is have 4.8 on 5. So it’s like still like more than honest. And the thing is the retention is high. So something very good for us is like we have much less player than all the other game. However, the time that people are spending into the game is super high.

11:42 We have an average of six sessions per day and the time of 52 minutes per player a day. So it’s like insane. And people are playing, you know, discovering the car, like doing like some match with the computers or PvE. And after that, they’re playing against other people. So they have like the time, you know, to spend time, they’re crafting the car.

12:05 Like they’re spending a long time, you know, we have some people spending like four, five hour, you know, it’s a lot, but like it’s a strategy game. You know, the game is a mix of chess, go and game of strategy position. So you have, you know, to it’s like conquest, you know, for land that you have, like to create a new strategy, you know, to flip the card and it’s really addictive. When you start to learn and to understand the mechanic and you start to think about it, say, okay, I have to do that, but like actually do that is gonna happen that.

12:35 So very easy, you know, to handle super hard to master.

12:39 Brian Rose: And then it’s got this deep story or maybe you call it lore in the business, which is these seven books that you talked about, two of them released. And I mean, I know some of the story and it’s very complex. It’s very deep. I know a lot of it reveals itself over time.

12:56 And I guess people get, they get pulled into that as well, because it’s not just some game. It’s not Angry Birds. There’s so many layers to it.

13:08 Sami Chlagou: We can resume that in one sentence. The sentence is, is a human deserve to live?

13:14 Is human is a parasite? Are we the problem? Are we? That’s the question. Yeah.

13:21 Brian Rose: And with the ad dances of AI, this has become even more pressing.

13:26 Sami Chlagou: Completely, you know, three years ago in 2020, all the book is talking about AI. AI and AI. It’s a dystopian story. Everything that we have now with AI was written on the book three years ago.

13:39 Some people do that 30 years ago, 25 years ago. I’m not going to say that we are the first to do that, but like, when you start to read the book, you see how it’s close of what’s happening. The question is, what’s, what is this word? What we’re going to give, you know, for the next generation? And when you start to read and you see the magic and you see like, you know, the AI and more you read on the book and more you feel inside and you understand that this is possible.

14:11 So it’s just another way to see.

14:13 Brian Rose: Right. The game is a reflection of who we are and who we’re becoming as people and our relationship with technology. And of course, the game is in technology. And now we’re in a new technology, blockchain technology, with probably AI components.

14:26 So it’s very weird life imitating art, imitating life again, imitating art. And I’ll be honest, Sammy, it’s something I’ve thought a lot about this year. We both have, I think, two children each. And I look at my boys, they’re six and seven. And I worry that they’re not going to have teenage years, not only like I did, or my dad did, or my grandpa, that maybe they’ll have teenage years unlike any human that’s ever been on this planet, if they’ll be superior, literally smarter beings out there in the form of AI.

14:52 Sami Chlagou: And in peace.

14:53 Brian Rose: Yeah. And my seven-year-old asked me about AI the other day. And it wasn’t something he heard from me. And he said, what about the machines, Papa?

15:01 And your story had already advanced that narrative. And I think you had to have these two groups, and some are very technical, right? Very computer-oriented, very, very real-time. And the other ones are adopting a lot of our mystic past. And because I get older, I find myself more drawn to the mystic side and more to the fact that I don’t know so many things about what’s going on.

15:26 And I have to sometimes encourage myself to allow myself to believe that I don’t understand a lot of things and that there’s a lot of truth in this mysticism as well.

15:38 Sami Chlagou: You’re right. I think that more you learn, more you new things, more you understand that you know nothing. Yeah. So it’s like the path of humility when you see someone that is feeling that he knows everything.

15:54 How? And this story, you know, everything is made around is created to help people to make decisions. You know, even the game himself, you know, we didn’t create the game just to create the game, addictive game. We created the game, you know, to push the people to count, to create the link, to understand that, you know, they will be, you know, I will not say smarter, but I will say like quicker on the mind. And like being able to do decision.

16:26 Everything made across the ages from the first day was made to push people to make decisions every time. So they help them, you know, to not say, okay, I’m going to do like him or like you will have to do your own decision. So what are you doing? What’s going to be the next step, you know? And this is, I think, why, you know, we have like this community behind and like this super community, like just pushing the game and being here and like staying behind us.

16:52 Brian Rose: How do you build a community like this? I mean, because every game developer out there is so jealous of what you’ve built. I mean, and they’re probably like, how did you build it? And I know you’re very detail oriented in everything you do, but how do you build that?

17:09 Sami Chlagou: I think that people can feel, you know, when you created something, you know, with not a good intention.

17:16 What is a good intention, you know? Is it like make money or something like that, you know, from the beginning and when I come here the first time, I told you that my goal is not the money. My goal is much bigger than that, you know? My goal is to do something and like to create something that will stay. When people understood that they all have a role in that, they all have something to play, it’s becoming game changer.

17:44 Because like every action that they’re doing is changing this universe. They created content. They created Twitter account. They created like post, they posting every day. They created a video.

17:58 They created cosplay. They created so many things, you know? And like when someone says, yeah, I want to do it and I want to do it. And then, you know, it’s become like, bam, bam, bam, bam. The thing interesting is we have something help us a lot.

18:13 The law. You base in foundation, super solid. You know, if it’s just a game, it’s an eye. So when the hype is like finish, it’s done. But think about it.

18:26 Think about the IP power. I would give you two example. You take, for example, Harry Potter. Harry Potter, you know the saga. They created video game.

18:35 Game have some success. They’re starting in GameCube. You have like some game like in PlayStation, PlayStation 3. However, in March, you have a game called Hogwarts Legacy in PS5. This is the biggest success ever for Harry Potter.

18:50 We’re talking about 2 billion. You know, it’s like, wow. 20 year after. Now we just go back. You take Pokemon, 1996.

18:58 They start with a card like with an IP, with a manga, and people are loving Pokemon. 2016, 20 years after, Pokemon go start. And this was the biggest success ever, ever, ever on mobile. So it’s like wine. When you created an IP, you created emotion.

19:17 You created something that you bring people with you for a long term. You’ve seen it with Star Wars. You can see it with all the biggest IP on the gaming with Mario. You take Nintendo Switch. Mario Kart is the biggest sale ever.

19:31 Biggest sale ever from the beginning. So this is exactly the same point for us. We created an IP. And when you created an IP, people start to learn about the IP. You don’t have yet the series.

19:44 But when we’re gonna come, people say, I knew it. I was here, you know. I’ve seen it and I’ve dreamed it. And this is exactly what you want to do. Right.

19:52 Brian Rose: And the Harry Potter, they haven’t released a movie in forever. And yet the game comes out and it’s a huge hit.

19:59 Sami Chlagou: Completely. Because the IP is deep in everyone’s DNA. And it’s, the IP is strong, right?

20:05 Brian Rose: It had so much attention to detail and people bought into that story. You mentioned Mario Kart. So my two boys, six and seven, they love Mario Kart. And they’re playing on the Nintendo Switch. And I remember playing Donkey Kong.

20:16 When I was their age, 40 some years ago, then it’s all part of that narrative. It’s just so strange, you know?

20:23 Sami Chlagou: Have you seen the movie with your kids?

20:26 Brian Rose: I haven’t yet.

20:26 Sami Chlagou: Not yet.

20:27 You will understand, you will see. It will create the link so strong. And you understand how they do that. Why did they wait more than 30 years to do a movie? Why?

20:37 When you see the result, you say, okay, you do it so well. It’s impressive. And this is the power of the IP. Usually, everyone is building in the wrong way. They build the game, the game is success, and they try to do a movie.

20:51 But it’s not working like that, you know? And they try to create the story and they try to find something. However, when we start, we took so much time. And like, I’ve seen every project going out. I say, put out your project.

21:05 It’s a bull market. Put out your token. I say, no. But like, you’re stupid. You were not gonna do it after.

21:12 I say, I have all my time. I want to build something sustainable. And I want to prove that if I’m doing well, when it’s gonna be, how do we say, bear market, you will see I will stand in front of you and tell you, we’re here. We have people. People are coming.

21:28 And we’re doing more and more in the bear market. If I’m doing that in bear market, I expect, I expect that the bull will be even better for us.

21:36 Brian Rose: Right. And so bear markets, you’re getting things done, right? And while other people are running away, you’re actually got your head down and you’re getting things done.

21:46 Sami Chlagou: I’m still here. And I come to see you, you know, with my smile, two year after, so yeah.

21:51 Brian Rose: I love it. We’re still here too. And I was just on stage with Brock Pierce in Dubai.

21:56 I think that… Yeah, and he came here a couple days later and he’s been in the industry forever. And he always said, he said bull markets are for bullshit and bear markets are when things bear fruit. And he said, I don’t trust someone. Who hasn’t been through a bear cycle.

22:12 You know, I need to see that you were there and you stayed there. And I want to see you on the other side of that. And that’s how you know.

22:21 Sami Chlagou: He’s smart. He’s smart.

22:23 Brian Rose: And so your advice to people is, if you’re going to build something, build it for the right reason. You know, I had Simon Sinek as a guest on my show and he has a book called Start with Why. And his argument is, is that people buy into the why of your product, not the what of your product, which is what you just basically said. Same. People can see that Cross the Ages is about more than trying to get you to spend some money on a game.

22:48 Cross the Ages is here to literally transform, you know, the world with your vision. And people can see that when they touch it. And so, like you said, you don’t want to rush it. You’re building and crafting a narrative that’s going to just be something that changes the world. And this is something that is your dream and you put all your passion into it.

23:09 And no one’s going to rush you to launch a token or do this or that because this is your life’s work.

23:15 Sami Chlagou: I think so. You know, there’s something very interesting in Cross the Ages. This is the first game with five publishers behind. So you have Ubisoft, you have Square Enix, you have any Mocha brands.

23:27 And why those publishers are behind the game? It’s like for my smile. No, I don’t think so. Everyone is trying to look, how can be the gaming industry tomorrow? The gaming industry is three billion people.

23:40 We’re talking about $200 billion, you know. And it’s a market really important, the biggest market more than the cinema. So you have to find the right way to get your community. Web2 publisher took the time to check what’s going to happen. And they’re not invest like that because it took like a three decade minimum, you know, for the gaming to be here.

24:11 The Web3 is pretty new. We’re talking about like two, three years, three years, four maximum. The last two years, we’re talking about six billion investments. But whatever the money invests, the reality is you have to wait the time to see what’s going to happen. The failure, because it’s not solid at all.

24:32 So you have to see what’s going to happen. Those people should have come for one reason. They really believe that cross the edges can be one of the solution. I say one of the solution, not the solution. But like we have a part of the key now in our hand.

24:47 I think that the model applied, you know, in cross the edges can be used in many other games. We’re going to announce next month the first cross collaboration. This never happened. When we take another IP, a very strong IP, one IP that everyone knows, cross the edges and we’re going to announce something, maybe, and we’re going to announce something, you know, completely crazy. And we’re going to announce another one.

25:15 And we’re going to announce another one. And this is going to be a game changer. When I come here, two years ago, I was talking about Ready Player One. I said like this vision that can be like crazy. But it’s possible, you know.

25:31 I’m not going to tell you that you’re going to use the asset for a game and putting another game now at all. I’m not going to tell you that. I’m not going to tell you you’re going to take like a horse and you’re going to use it in cross the edges or you take like a sword and use it here, no. I’m telling you about something different, something that created a link between community, between fan of one game and another game. And like those publisher, they convinced that cross the edges, this IP having less than three years is able to be put with another IP for 10, 20, and even more.

26:08 So it’s a new step for us. A new step because we are trustable today. And we show warranty for everyone that we’re still here. Whatever the market, we’re still here. I’m not telling you that we’re not made fail or whatever.

26:26 We’re going to do even more on the future. However, we’re still here. That’s it.

26:31 Brian Rose: And so there’s a quote from you where you recently said, we have probably found the key for the future of gaming.

26:39 Sami Chlagou: Yes, one part.

26:40 One part. I want to be ambulance, stay to my position. It’s one part, not all of them. The key, you know, it’s like in different parts. Let’s say that this model is working.

26:51 This model, the ownership is working. So there are many things interesting, you know, on the web tree. However, you know, people from the web too are super scared about like losing money. You know, so many people, you know, come. They buy many NFTs, many assets, whatever.

27:08 And like they lose almost everything they got. And it’s really complicated. You know, when you spend your money, like you have a very bad feeling. So people talking about education, about the way of how you involve people, we do completely the opposite today across the ages. 80% of our players are coming from the web too.

27:28 Not from the web tree. Did they do education? Not at all. I just made something invisible. They can use NFT, they can use like tokens, they can use everything, but you just have to click on a button.

27:40 They don’t have to do nothing. And in a few months, we’re going to do even better. It’s going to be more than invisible. It’s going to be exactly included on the game. So our way to think that this is going to be this key is when the experience is really simple.

27:56 You really don’t feel it. I’m not here to tell you that I’m going to create an education, I’m going to educate. No, no, it’s too complicated. You know, even for people from the web tree, sometimes I say, yeah, bro, it’s too hard for me. How do you do that?

28:11 You’re burning and you’re doing that and you ask me to be doing here. Please stop. How do I get from Polygon to Cardano back to ETH? What is going on? Right.

28:21 So we do it differently. I’m not asking you anything. Just enjoy. Just enjoy and play.

28:26 Brian Rose: And that’s why you’re atop the app store because the app store people don’t, they’re not web three.

28:32 Sami Chlagou: They just want to play a game. Yes, they’re not looking for any kind of thing. If they want, if they want, they can transform their digital assets into NFT. And from that, you know, it’s another experience.

28:45 Brian Rose: And so you have some major partnerships coming up with web two IP franchises that may or may not come from some of your investors like Ubisoft and some of the others.

28:55 Sami Chlagou: And Square Enix.

28:56 Brian Rose: And that’s never been done before because no one has trusted a web three franchise because let’s be honest, there hasn’t been any web three game franchises really yet.

29:06 Sami Chlagou: No, not yet because like, and it’s not bad, you know, it’s real. If we are honest, you know, how long it take to build a game? Or we used to build the game, you know, and like Marvel Snap, they take four year and one year for the Polish.

29:19 So it’s like almost five year, like a good game, take minimum of two or three years just to having something okay, but you will have a bug, you know, so you have to still work on it. And like, where did we come? You know, we made this fundraising in end of 2021 and we start the production in 2022. So like, how can we, you know, like we are fast, okay, we’re working super hard, but like, it’s not enough. So we’re doing well, the chance we have is like our community behind, they understand that, you know, it’s took time.

29:55 Like, I’m not here to hide myself. So, you know, you understand our problem, but the reality is there are some stuff that I never seen before. You know that there are some problem that we never seen that is okay, how do we do now? I said, is it some notice to find solution? Okay, this has never happened for anyone.

30:12 Okay, it’s new. It’s new, it’s new kind of problem. So you have the problem of the gaming on the web too. This is okay, fine. And this is the problem for iteration in the web tree where like we didn’t have like all the key and all the solution and we’re trying, you know, to do it step by step.

30:29 Brian Rose: Okay, now we just talked about vision and start with why and making a great game. But now let’s talk about real because you got your funding two years ago. Yeah. And a bear market. And I saw you at token 2049 in London a year ago and you were like, Brian, we’re making revenues on NFTs.

30:49 And so that’s perfect because we can grow our community. We’re not in pressure to drop a token which I don’t want to drop right now. I mean, FTX news came out that day. And so, you know, you’re a creator, Sammy, but you’re also the CEO of a company. And the CEO of the company has to make payroll and has to make sure that the milestones happen.

31:08 Brian Rose: And so you have been extremely successful in selling NFTs at a marketplace where no one wants to say the word NFT and OpenSea is down 96% in volume, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But you are doing massive volumes. So can you tell me what you’re doing and how you’re doing it?

31:25 Sami Chlagou: Sure.

31:25 Brian Rose: And how that also funds your organization and builds community.

31:29 Sami Chlagou: Sure. Here we go. So we give and sold 21 million digital assets. 21 million. Same number as Bitcoin.

31:40 Brian Rose: Oh, right. True.

31:42 Sami Chlagou: And on that, you have 2.5 million NFT. On that, we’re talking about like more than 10 million in primary sale.

31:53 Brian Rose: 10 million dollars in primary sales.

31:57 Sami Chlagou: Yes. And 17 million in secondary markets.

32:01 Brian Rose: That’s massive.

32:02 Sami Chlagou: It’s not bad.

32:03 Brian Rose: How do you have so many NFTs?

32:06 Sami Chlagou: I don’t know. No, no, no, no, I will explain. I’m joking. Okay. In fact, you know, if you take a casual game, you don’t need to have like many NFTs.

32:16 Right. In Cross the Age is more you have card, more you’re happy. Because you can merge a card together and you can combine them, you know, to have an alternate card. Okay, right. And it’s like, you know, you can have like 30, 40.

32:29 It’s you want always more. The thing interesting is the price of the NFT are really going higher and higher. It’s going lower when you have a new collection because like everyone is selling, you know, to have the new collection, it’s always like that. But it’s really interesting because from the beginning, you know, it was expected, you know, to have to not sell everything to not meet all the cards. And then when the new people will come, it will create it like even more value, you know, on the card, because we do something is you can mix the card from season one and season two, and you can mix the card for season two and three, but you need to do that.

33:12 It’s not you can, you have to, because some card you can only get them if you have card of season one. So it will destroy the supply again and again. So imagine, imagine we have, we’re talking about 2 million NFTs for season one. Now the season one is finished since the 25 October. And then after the month is going to be like 1,950, and then it’s going to be 1,900, and 1,800, and it’s going to be lower, lower, because you can’t buy the card anymore, and you will destroy it.

33:44 So you want it or no, the community will destroy them. People will come, new people will come, and they will try the chance, you know, to have like some special card and like some rare card, so they will mix the card. So everything was made to push the people to destroy the card again and again. You have like new mechanic coming super soon, and it will push the people to have always card for different collection. Because like the new mechanic are linked, you know, to the card themselves.

34:10 So what we do is we create a story where people can use the card, and like this has some game that when you change collection, you have to change all your card, and this is not fair, you know. And what we’ve done is you will have always the utility of the card. Let’s make that your NFT will go up on the price. So if you check the price for them for mythical, we have, we used to have some mythical for 20 bucks and become 30, and some become 17 now. Very interesting to see like the curve and like how it’s evolved, you know, in six months.

34:43 So more people will come, more people will be interested by the game, more the price will go higher. And it was the same 30 years ago with Magic the Gathering, it was the same with Pokémon. So we just have to wait, I’m not gonna say you have to wait 30 years, but it’s going quicker for across the ages. And I really believe that this is gonna be like the step, step, new step, new step.

35:06 Brian Rose: Was this always the plan?

35:08 Or was this something that you realized kind of tactically?

35:12 Sami Chlagou: It was from the beginning. From the first day, it was to create a tree experience. First one is digital, completely free. And when I used to talk to people, I say, don’t buy nothing, just have fun.

35:24 The second one is if you want to have ownership, you spend $1 per card that you want to meet. You don’t have to meet them all. Take the word, the meeting and whatever and like the special that you want and someone to meet like that. And the third one is a physical card. So the next month, people will start to see like what is a physical card for across the ages.

35:44 And we’re gonna print those cards and I’m gonna give the opportunity for the people, you know, to print them and to receive them at home. And this is just fantastic. However, what’s gonna happen, people will burn the NFT and receive the physical card. So you will have less NFT again and again, always finding a way and always doing a choice of what you want to do. Why people will do this?

36:05 Why people will have the physical card? You have a limit, you know, in physical cards. It’s like you can’t have more than 1000 collection for the normal. 5500 for the second and like 250 for the third one. People will burn the cards.

36:21 Let’s see, we’ll have physical cards. More the price will go up. The same, you know, for the cards, what is a good choice? Is it good, you know, to burn the card? No, but this is sure that less you will have collection.

36:36 More the price will go up. And it will destroy more and more NFT. But you can’t go back, it’s finished. And you will say, oh, why? Why?

36:45 Why I didn’t mint my card? Why I didn’t buy much? It’s like, why the Bitcoin was 16k if you want to go? Why I didn’t invest, you know? And now it’s 37.

36:55 It’s always like that about the choice.

36:58 Brian Rose: And you created like a pressure. So people say, okay, I missed it one time, but not two times. Right. So you’re playing with the scarcity factor of this market.

37:08 And you’re playing with the right and that and that gets people to forces them to make decisions.

37:15 Sami Chlagou: Yes.

37:16 Brian Rose: And you created also a natural deflation that wasn’t exist before. Because when you have collection, take the borrowed ape. You have 10,000, but 10,000, you know?

37:28 Sami Chlagou: If you don’t create a Mouton, it’s the same collection across the edges. It’s not true. You will destroy it. The collection will be destroyed by the owner. And this is exactly the way to have something sustainable with less and less card and more and more people.

37:49 Because whatever one you think, people will come. People will come because there are so many ways to grab them. It’s going to be the book, the comic, the competition, the trading. They will come. And they will come from a place that you would never expect.

38:06 Brian Rose: You just recently sold one of your NFTs for $150,000.

38:10 Sami Chlagou: Yeah.

38:10 Brian Rose: How do you do that?

38:11 Sami Chlagou: It’s not me, you know? It’s like people.

38:14 You know, the story is pretty interesting because like it was listed 30 minutes and like disappear. Before that, the same one, like it’s called Golden Legacy Min Pass. It’s a Min Pass. The last one was sold 130K. And before that, it was sold like maybe 100K.

38:33 And before that, it was sold 56K. And this brings advantage to the owner, but not like advantage to win a match, to receive something special. In fact, you know how an NFT can have value, utility. Just that. Bring to your NFT utility and not think that you say, I’m going to send you an NFT.

39:03 You will have like a nice NFT. You will be happy on it. No. Give to NFT one utility that the owner will be sure that it will have value whatever the time. For the main card, it’s the interoperability.

39:20 That means that the NFT you have today, you can use it for all the other games across the ages. All the other game. Not one. All the other game. So it’s a promise that when you come first, even if you don’t like trading card game, the next game will come the open word.

39:38 You will be so happy to have your assets. And the same thing is when you have some NFT giving you back, value, airdrop, and like so many things, you’re happy because it’s investment. And you can sell back the thing that you receive or whatever, but you know what you took. You know why this make value. Tomorrow, if someone will list it, it will be sold.

40:00 Because people knew that, wow, it’s insane. So yeah.

40:05 Brian Rose: That’s a representation of the utility of that NFT. That’s why it has that promise.

40:13 Sami Chlagou: And we still have a few people.

40:16 It’s OK. We still have a very great community, but it’s not enough.

40:21 Brian Rose: And when it gets bigger, it’ll just be more in demand.

40:26 Sami Chlagou: Exactly.

40:27 Brian Rose: And you have, number-wise, 100,000 monthly active users.

40:31 Sami Chlagou: So we have 110, 120 registered player. Now we have more than 60, 70K monthly player playing. It depends on the month. Sometimes it’s higher. And we have between 6,000 to 8,000 regular player coming into the game.

40:52 But the way of how they’re using the game and how they’re playing, it’s really interesting. So we know that card gaming is a niche game. And these numbers are real. So it’s not like something that it’s real people. We can say, oh, there are 100,000 people playing every day.

41:10 And we have like 5 million or 6 million player. It’s not true. With what we’re doing and what it generates, if we are able to scale it, and if we’re able to do 10 times more, it’s going to be impressive. So we have the time to continue to build, to develop, and to improve that. And people actually are happy.

41:32 And we maintain that. And we keep that. The retention for day 30 is like 14%. It’s really good. Really good to see that people are still staying.

41:46 It used to be like 10 and like 11 and 12, and now 13 and 14 because we add new mode on the game, PVE. We add a mode where you can play, you can learn, you can develop new skills, and you can spend time on it. And this is really interesting. We will have like an older game, like we have like three major games, but we have like a small game will come soon. And this will be like a whole ecosystem.

42:12 So it’s going to be like this, of course, and this, of course, and this. So you will be happy to have your assets, and you will be happy to evolve in this universe. And we would create a different experience for almost all the players. This is the idea from the beginning.

42:27 Brian Rose: And this is the thing about Web3 Games is that you can survive and thrive on an audience that’s maybe 10% of a Web2 game or 5% or 1%.

42:35 It can be a significantly smaller audience, but that audience spends more, invests more, and it can be a very profitable game, even if it doesn’t have the audience of the World of Warcraft or something like that.

42:49 Sami Chlagou: True, and there are big differences between people coming from the Web2 and from the Web3. It’s more player-investor, and they’re waiting much more than player-investor.

43:00 Brian Rose: Player-investor, that’s what you call them. Interesting term.

43:04 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, player-investor. Which means they’re there for a long term. Long term. They do all the projects. They knew all the projects.

43:10 They took hours, a week, a month to work on the project to try to understand. They invest the money. They get back the money. They play the investor. They come and say, okay, I’m going to put money, but I want my money back.

43:24 Don’t lie to me. Tell me the truth. Is it good to invest? It’s going to be a problem. So people made the experience.

43:34 The experience is quite good, really good, super good. When you see some people coming and having some gold pass, they sell it for 10, 20. I, by myself, I spend money in my game, you can imagine. I just spent like 10K last month because I am missing some card that I was like that. I’m talking to people in the community and say, please, is someone who wants to sell me this card?

43:58 I didn’t find it. Because we have to make some card to have some other card. And people don’t want to sell it. They want to keep it. And it created a link with the community.

44:09 It’s really, really, really great to see how it’s creating a link between people from different countries. And it’s really exciting.

44:18 Brian Rose: Who plays your game now? Is it Europeans mostly? Is it people in Asia?

44:23 Who is it?

44:24 Sami Chlagou: We have mainly in Europe and then now in Asia, we have like 80% in Japan and we have like six in Korea. We have to push because the potential in Korea, Japan is quite high. We will start soon like Dubai and Emirati. We made it a little bit but like super small.

44:51 We start a little bit in Australia and there are so many countries where we’re not. China, for example, completely like not there. We’re going to create a diversion in 2024, fully web 2 to grab like the Chinese community. We’re talking about 25% of the player. The US, not US.

45:13 It cost us too much to develop and to do the marketing. We’re going to go to the US and the new goal for us is to raise money to starting the communication but like very deeply because a game, first you need to have a good game and you need to have a good experience. It’s not good enough. If we’re honest, it’s good but not enough. It’s never enough but like I expect in the end of January to have something in my hand where I’m proud.

45:45 We will be at 50% of what is cross the edges in my mind. So we start talking about something good. I’m not going to put nothing since it’s not ready. It makes no sense to push so high. We push enough to grab new people but not too much to try to get everywhere.

46:11 So you have some market where we’re not and we’re taking the time to come there with a good version and a good experience where people say, okay, it’s nice, it’s good. And like for that, you need time and you can’t compress it. You can try to reduce the time. You can try to say, okay, it’s four, you can do three but I can’t do two. I can divide by two.

46:33 It’s not possible if big studio are not able to do it. I spent 12 years of my life on the gaming industry. You can’t trick with that. You have to do it and it’s more complex because it’s web tree component and think that you have to deal with that. So yeah.

46:50 Brian Rose: And so by January, you’ll have something you’re proud of and then potentially another raise to go to the US.

46:57 Sami Chlagou: Equity raise?

46:58 Brian Rose: The first one. Okay, the first one I know. So and now we’re talking about raises.

47:04 Brian Rose: The question that I’m sure is on everyone’s mind is when is the token being generated and how many times a day do you get asked that and talk to me about the way you’ve thought about that token for the past two years because it’s on your mind. I’m sure everyone asks you this. What has been your strategy when it comes to that token?

47:25 Sami Chlagou: So first of all, it’s very interesting to talk about the token. When I start the fundraising, everyone told me, launch your token now.

47:33 Say yes, but I didn’t. No, take your money and you’re gonna raise quickly and just launch it now. This is a perfect time. It was bull markets.

47:42 Brian Rose: It probably was.

47:43 Sami Chlagou: Well, whatever perfect means.

47:45 Brian Rose: It was the time to get the highest value for the token.

47:48 Sami Chlagou: Exactly. On the day. But you can be sure that if I do that, we will generate money, a lot of money.

47:54 Everyone will be happy. But take your project and finish. It’s like you can throw away.

47:59 Brian Rose: You knew that. Fortunately, you have never done that.

48:02 Sami Chlagou: I know, but you’ve seen the other project it’s not possible that something not ready the project wasn’t finished. So I say, okay, you know what? I’m gonna wait. And we have like 70 investors in close the ages. It’s quite a lot.

48:23 And I have only one. One. Ask me, okay, can I know where you’re gonna launch the token? Only one. One.

48:32 Brian Rose: I never asked you.

48:33 Sami Chlagou: I know. It’s not you. And even, you know, we’re sending an email every month to keep posted everyone. And you know, my goal is very simple.

48:43 I want to make everyone happy. I know we’re not like in a dream or like everything is easy or whatever, but I really believe that I can do it. I really believe that I can launch a token and my player when I do the launch pad, you know, I sell the token to my own player. They will generate revenue. You know, they will make multiple acts.

49:05 The investor, you, all the investor, they will get back the money and they will generate revenue. I was able to launch the token more than 10 times between 2022 and 2023. I never did it because it was not a good time. Be patient. Just wait.

49:26 2024 will be the launch of the token.

49:29 Brian Rose: Really?

49:29 Sami Chlagou: Yeah.

49:30 Brian Rose: So this may be though.

49:32 Sami Chlagou: Maybe.

49:32 Brian Rose: I think so.

49:33 Sami Chlagou: You think so.

49:33 Brian Rose: I think so. I think so. And it’s when you feel it, right?

49:36 Sami Chlagou: It’s, you know, we’re close to like many, many partners and like now I receive like a mail more than every day for like all the launch pads. Yes, you can launch your token now. We’re here. You can help you support you. I said, okay, you know what?

49:49 What I want is just to be sure that it’s not an effect of going up and down. Let’s see like what’s going to happen. It’s true. We have two or three week was completely insane on the market. Everything go up.

50:03 But like, you know, I don’t have like any crystal ball. I’m just taking the time. I don’t want to rush. I want to protect, you know, all the investment of everyone. And if I’m doing that, it’s just for the good thing.

50:16 You know, the investor, how many people are losing money? You know, the investor is so hard to be investor on the web tree. 2022 and 2023 is like, it’s why. A field free is like a graveyard. See, it’s not happened.

50:32 It’s not here anymore. This one is not here. It’s so hard. Like you have to pay people. You have to pay people.

50:40 Hopefully for us, we generate money. If we don’t generate money, we’re not going to be here anymore. What? With a raise of like 10 million we made like three years ago. You think that’s what?

50:50 I’m able to pay the salary for 80 people spending 600k per month.

50:56 Brian Rose: Really? You think so?

50:57 Sami Chlagou: No, it’s impossible. So the right time, the good time, where like it’s going to be launched.

51:05 And to be sure also that everything will be prepared to avoid failure. And to avoid problems that so many people have. So little people say, okay, do you launch tokens? How many times? 10, 20.

51:20 Okay, which token is this? Okay, okay. And we do that. And like we do it step by step to be sure that this is going to be like a great experience. Everyone will receive the token.

51:29 And I also say, okay, it’s good. Are you ready? And maybe we’re going to have like the success like original token and like seeing it like going high. And I think that this is going to be really great because they are first in real utility. And second, you have like massive people using the CTA token daily.

51:49 And this is one of the key. If you created the CTA token, okay, just here for speculation. It’s not the case of CTA token. It needs to have real utility. And have real utility for everything.

52:01 Buy card, sell card, mint your card. Receiving like when you hold CTA token, you receive airdrop every week. Tournament. Transform your card from NFT token. There are so many things linked.

52:13 All the economy is linked to that. Okay. That’s been eight months with more from Animoca, you know, to create this token economy. Okay. With Mohammed Faman.

52:21 Mohammed Faman.

52:22 Brian Rose: Manaka is the best man, right? He’s the man. He’s the tokenomics man. And so, but right now without a token, is it, does it stop your players from doing things?

52:31 Sami Chlagou: No, because they’re using token.

52:33 Brian Rose: Right. Off chain.

52:35 Sami Chlagou: Off chain, yeah. So if you’re a new player, you can buy token.

52:39 So you pay it’s 50 cents now. So it used to be like 13 in pre-sale and like you’re going up.

52:49 You have a limitation on your token when you are a new player. If you buy a pack on OpenSea, you have like your mint pass. You can have 500, 750, 1,250. So you have a limitation. However, you can have more than that.

53:05 And this is a way, you know, to be like an early investor and then an early owner of token. And then when we get along the token, people will see like how, you know, the token and we’re going to swap, you know, the token from off-chain to on-chain.

53:21 Brian Rose: Okay. So it already has a price, kind of. Okay.

53:24 Sami Chlagou: Kind of. Kind of.

53:25 Brian Rose: And let’s talk about the markets because today, Bitcoin is basically at 37,000. Ethereum has crossed 2,000. 2,100.

53:34 Pretty impressive. Pretty impressive. The market feels strong in many ways. And I know we can have volatility and I know it can pull back, but something feels like there’s a lot of strength here. Institutional money coming in.

53:48 What does that mean for the next year, in your opinion, in Web3 Gaming and you guys? But what do you think that’s going to usher into this space? Are there going to be more high-quality games? Are there going to be more low-quality games, Amy? How will that affect when you generate a token?

54:03 How will that affect your business if Bitcoin doubles in 24?

54:07 Sami Chlagou: First, indeed, you know, when you have a market with opportunity, it will bring opportunity and it will bring also people, you know, to generate and to maximize and to get money very quickly. We learned a thing very interesting in the bear market is the survival of the bear market will be potentially the winner of tomorrow. So you say you was talking about broke peers and it’s true, you know, if you didn’t see someone, you know, on the bear, how can you react, you know, on the next step?

54:40 I think that next year will be really interesting, first of all, because many move will start and I think it will start not next year, but this year in December with announcement of the ETF. Well, I believe there’s going to be like the time to talk about that. The move that we’ve seen, you know, on Bitcoin, it’s not, you know, how can I say that random? Why like the Bitcoin was like for 24, 25 and moving like from that, like so quickly and everything is like going like to this way.

55:17 It’s like going super fast. So I believe that they will have like a new opportunity and many VC, you know, just step back from the gaming for like the last year, minimum and even more, because the VC, you know, was interested by EI and like old generative and like also system of layer, but like technology and infrastructure, but not on the gaming for the last year. And we’ve seen it, you know, if you check, you know, the LinkedIn and like whatever the newspaper, it’s pretty rare to heard about a game that’s raising money.

55:54 It’s more like common to say that, you know, the disappear like you don’t talk about like any kind of product. So I think that VC will come back and they will have like an attention, you know, to invest in solid product. The scene, you know, what is like game, the scene that they need time to be built. And I believe that you will have like a new product will be released with a maturity, the maturity of the beer market. This is going to be like, I believe something pretty new and pretty different.

56:31 I think also that we’re not going to see the multiple that we seen on the last beer market the last bull market, sorry. So we’ve seen many games do X200, X500, X1000, I think, and this is personal and we will see about that, but we’re not going to see that.

56:48 Brian Rose: Right. It was like El Dorado for this time.

56:51 Sami Chlagou: When we’re going to see like maybe like X10, X20 is going to be like pretty insane, but it’s going to be like less, you know, more control, you know.

57:01 Brian Rose: Right. More control. The market cap will get bigger and there’ll be less of those extreme wins. That’s what you’re saying.

57:07 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, I agree with you.

57:08 I think the ecosystem itself could grow significantly more in this bull market.

57:12 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s like a kind of automatic regulation. Yeah, very much so. Are there web-3 games out there that you like, that you see that are up and coming? There are going to be big parts of the ecosystem.

57:23 Brian Rose: And also, you know, one of your investors is Anamoka, which has just doubled down and tripled down and quadrupled down on gaming for their existence over the last three years. Are they positioned in a really good way to take advantage, you know, when the games come?

57:38 Sami Chlagou: They made like, they took like so many risks, you know, Anamoka, you know, they did extensively and I think that, you know, the vision of Fiat is pretty smart because like you get like the same vision they already seen, you know, and like they knew the ecosystem and they knew that it’s going to go like down.

57:56 You have like four year and the four year you have two year and a half that nothing’s going to happen. It’s going to be like really complicated and one year and a half where it’s going to be like the rush. So I think we’re coming, you know, to this rush. It’s not, I’m not a scientist and I’m not telling you that it’s going to be like that, but it should be possible.

58:15 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s going to be an exciting time.

58:17 Brian Rose: Yeah. For you guys, you have competitions coming up. You know, esports is something that is going to be a part of your ecosystem in the future. You got all sorts of things that are planned for across the ages.

58:28 Sami Chlagou: It’s the 9th and 10th December.

58:30 Brian Rose: December, right.

58:31 Sami Chlagou: If you want to come. Yeah, it’s in Paris. It’s in Marseille.

58:35 Brian Rose: In Marseille, of course.

58:36 Brian Rose: Are you a local hero in Marseille now? You must be. What? Are you a local hero in Marseille?

58:41 Sami Chlagou: No, no, not yet.

58:42 Sami Chlagou: But like the people they really enjoy, they’re really happy of course.

58:45 Brian Rose: Because you kind of put Marseille on the map. You did the big launch party in the castle in Marseille.

58:50 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, they really enjoyed that.

58:51 Brian Rose: I mean, there’s not many Web3 gaming company in Marseille.

58:54 Brian Rose: You’re probably the only one.

58:56 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, you know. I think the mayor really loved that and like so many local people really loved what we’ve made, you know, for the city and you’re right, you know. I’m super proud, you know, to be in Salsa France because the weather is much better and like everything is cheaper.

59:11 So, this is good. We’re doing like our first eSport competition in the Web3 for now. I’ve never seen a physical competition with a cash price of $100,000. So, we pay the ticket for the 64 best player coming from Japan, Korea, from Indonesia, Brazil, Russia and like they’re coming from everywhere. The best player in the world of Cross the Ages.

59:37 And then, you know, we have a system of tickets. The ticket is free. You have some ticket that you can pay for that. But like what we want is just give the opportunity for the people to come. But this experience, we’re not going to be like only a Cross the Ages experience.

59:50 It’s going to be like a really gaming experience. So, the, how can I say that? The event will be really insane, you know, and we prepare like so many things, for the people come. Because even, you know, if the ticket is free, people are spending, you know, money not to take the plane or to take the train. They will take like, it’s like the nine and ten.

1:00:12 They will take one day before and one day maybe after. So, it will cost, you know, money. Like they will spend food and like they will have to find a place to sleep. And I’m so happy. I’m so proud, you know, to see how many people already come and register online, you know, and it’s going to be really insane because we prepare like many, many, many things will be, you know, to this event.

1:00:37 And yeah, we’re really proud like to be the first game, you know, to do that physically.

1:00:41 Brian Rose: That’s a big deal. Talk to me about your marketing because you had the launch party in Marseille. You got these beautiful jackets and thank you again. I can’t wait to put this thing on.

1:00:50 You have the vlogs that you do when you’re going around the world. It’s really high quality videos. I watch all that stuff. And again, this esports competition and like how important is that for any company, including a Web 3 company, to really think about the emotional connection with their customers and their potential customers because you guys do it across many different verticals. Maybe 80%?

1:01:14 Sami Chlagou: 80%?

1:01:14 Brian Rose: Is that important?

1:01:16 Sami Chlagou: 80%. And yet very few people do it. I think that this is the main thing, you know, the game, you know, the experience of the game is created important, but like the link that you’re going to create it, it’s completely different because you have to think that what you’re doing will be watched by people and creating emotion, created a link with them.

1:01:40 It’s so important. Backstage, you know, people want to see like what’s going to happen. You know, what is behind? What is it real? You know, is it real?

1:01:47 Like, is it cool? Or like, who is it? And like, I want to know them. I want to know this girl, this guy. Why?

1:01:54 Why those people don’t leave the company? Why they stay, you know? Like I have like some people that they give them like people, even my partner, I give them like three times the price to leave my company. I say, I’m going to stay. I’m going to stay.

1:02:07 I’m happy, you know, when you have the happiness, when you understand why you’re here and you can easily give it to your community, to the people and people are, they’re seeing that. They’re seeing it’s real, you know, and I’m so happy, you know, to take the time, you know, to create it like this contents because for me, it will stay. I don’t know how many times but it will stay. You have like a YouTube video, even if you don’t see it for the first day, maybe in a few years, people will say, oh, wow.

1:02:39 And it’s recorded. It’s our memories. We’re going to do a documentary with that. The documentary will say like, you will never success because it’s true. You know, the first thing we told me that it’s never success.

1:02:53 You can’t. You will fail. It’s okay. This is your right to say that. My right is to believe that we are able to change the rules.

1:03:03 So this content is so important and I’m really happy because like we have a very strong network with like so many partners, so many influencers calls and like, you know, they’re doing so many things without asking, you know, and we’re not like in this position that I have to pay everything and like people really enjoy like they spend time the company and they say, I feel so good here. Like the vibes, like the people that I understand that I’m doing something with sense, you know. Soon, you know, in a few months, you know, we’re going to start like the sale of the land.

1:03:41 This sale of the land will be completely different than the land you’re seeing. It’s not going to be metaverse. It’s going to be real. I’m serious. Real land.

1:03:50 Brian Rose: Real. Really.

1:03:51 Sami Chlagou: You want to see?

1:03:52 Brian Rose: That’s all you’re going to leave me with.

1:03:55 Sami Chlagou: Yes.

1:03:55 A little cliffhanger. They’re going to kill me on the market.

1:03:58 Brian Rose: Okay, I like it. They’re going to kill you. I just thought of a phrase when you just explained what Cross The Age is about.

1:04:03 They say the customer experience is a lagging indicator of company culture. What does that mean? That means if you have an amazing internal company culture where people love to be there and they’re happy that there’s a time lag, but the customer will feel that. Sure. Right.

1:04:20 For sure. Like everyone is fitting it. Everyone. I take the example of one of the clothes advisor Sebastian Bourget from Sandbox. He said the culture of the company is insane every time I’m talking about that.

1:04:32 Brian Rose: I can feel it when I see the people. They are so happy.

1:04:37 Sami Chlagou: See how? It’s not how. It’s like that.

1:04:41 Sami Chlagou: You know when I’m not magician, when you took the good people together and they understood why they’re doing things, it’s magic. I think that we are, even if we are a small company, even if we don’t have a lot of money, we are able to create something where with the time we’re going to be able to don’t be shy. We’re going to be proud of what we’re doing. And I’m already proud of what we’re doing. I just want that next step.

1:05:14 Higher, higher, best realization, the sound, everything. Like for example, for the trailer, or just release the second trailer. Who is releasing trailer now when we see like how much is it? You know, you’re crazy. You’re not really this trailer.

1:05:27 You do once. It’s okay, stop.

1:05:29 Brian Rose: Did you spend $100,000 on your first trailer? How much did you say? $100,000?

1:05:33 Sami Chlagou: More. More on your first trailer. More.

1:05:36 Brian Rose: $200,000?

1:05:36 Sami Chlagou: $600,000.

1:05:37 Brian Rose: On your first trailer.

1:05:39 Sami Chlagou: Yeah. $17,000 hour, 11 months of work. 48 people work on the first trailer. It’s good though.

1:05:48 Brian Rose: It’s expensive. I remember it.

1:05:50 Sami Chlagou: Oh yeah. The second is better for me. And the third will be completely insane.

1:05:54 So you will have like something coming, a trailer coming, and maybe another one. So like we’re going to go faster now. Why are we doing that? It’s really important to understand that we want to create a movie animation, not like trailer. We want to create a series.

1:06:12 We want to create a merch. Like we launched like the shop in June. We sold so many clothes, you know, like this jacket is one of the 22 products that we created. And like we’re spending time and we have like some people coming. They don’t know about Cross the Ages.

1:06:31 We went to the pair of games and people are buying, you know, the black jacket. They are so happy. They say, you know, the games, I don’t care about your game. I care about your close brother. And I was so happy.

1:06:42 We made it. The symbol, everything, you know, we made it. We created something where everyone can pick and take whatever he wants. I’m not forced you to nothing. You don’t like card game.

1:06:56 No problem. You can like something else. It’s so large that you can just have to pick it. Take whatever you want.

1:07:04 Brian Rose: Yeah, that’s important.

1:07:06 Brian Rose: And the new game is coming. That’s not a card game.

1:07:10 Sami Chlagou: No, Arise. Arise, which is like the video game.

1:07:13 Brian Rose: And that’s going to bring in a whole other audience.

1:07:17 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, I’m really, really proud of this experience. You know, the team is working for more than 18 months on this. I wasn’t sure that we were able, you know, to produce, you know, the TCG and also starting with another game when we raised the money we raised for the TCG first. We knew that, you know, we will have like other experience but we need money to do that. But since we generate money for the TCG, we keep the rest of the money that we have to invest and we use it, you know, to invest.

1:07:50 So we spend the money, spend, spend, spend just to develop. And actually, I’m proud. I’m really proud, you know, because like we will not, we have more time that we used to have for the TCG. And we link the game together. So when people will see that, you know, having, you know, the card from TCG, bring it, you know, for a raise is not a scheme or something like, you know, that.

1:08:22 I say, oh, wow. The entire probability is real. You have a real thing, you know, to get, you know, your card and your staff from the beginning. So all the people that’s, they believe in us from the beginning. I think they will be happy, more than happy because like I was really surprised to see like the quality of the game and say, okay, wow, this is a game.

1:08:45 You know, when we end this camera, I will show you some video and you will see like how it’s impressive, how the quality is nice.

1:08:55 Brian Rose: You mentioned ordinals earlier. Have you looked into the BRC20 chain? I recently had a fellow Frenchman in that chair, also funded by Anamoka Brands. And he is building his game life beyond for the BRC20 chain, which is putting it literally on the Bitcoin chain or looking into doing that.

1:09:17 Sami Chlagou: BRC20 is the future.

1:09:18 Brian Rose: Is it? What do you think about the BRC20?

1:09:20 Sami Chlagou: Oh, it’s, you know, we took time, you know, with Ben, you know, to talk about that and like he wanted to convince me, you know, to go with him. I said, please, you know, you can’t imagine how it’s complicated and like, I’m happy, you know, with immutable today.

1:09:34 And we try, you know, to scale, you know, the experience and like trying to find like the best way. And it’s good that he took the time, you know, to build that so he will have experience. And then we’re going to be able to share soon to see like, what is the problem he got? Like, what is the difficulty? Like he’s able that to what, what is the real sense of that?

1:09:56 And is it easy or not, you know, to be on BRC20, you know, for a game?

1:10:00 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s been interesting because we’ve invested in life beyond and I was at the ordinals summit in Singapore. And I’m always hearing from Ben and a few of the people and they’re always just something new is happening and the ordinals are here and there’s a lot of development going into it. And then you got the Bitcoin ETF, which means it could be a bigger market and but they’re right on the cutting edge because Horizon Labs is working on their, you know, token and Horizon did the APECOIN.

1:10:28 Sami Chlagou: But it’s very good.

1:10:29 Brian Rose: Yeah, they’re very good. It’s very new. It’s still so new. And so I know Rob Vigli only from Horizon.

1:10:34 I was hanging out with him in Dubai and the crew. And, you know, they’re like, you know, right on the cutting edge. And they all say, like, the ordinals feels like old school Bitcoin conferences, you know, where it’s, it’s like no big booths, no big CEOs. It’s just like, you know, hardcore developers, community, people that love it, trying to build something like new and creative.

1:10:54 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, but like what’s happening is pretty good.

1:10:57 And like, I really believe that the potential is here. So I really want to see more about that, you know, just keep looking and like be close and, you know, shake the hand and I think it’s gonna be really interesting to see like how it’s gonna, how it’s gonna move.

1:11:15 Brian Rose: Okay, so for you guys, token next year generated, maybe, probably, equity raise potentially to go to America.

1:11:22 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, so for us, the equity raises for three things. The first is for the marketing, you know, the second is for the cross over because, you know, you have to pay this partnership is not free.

1:11:35 And the third is like for the development of Arise, you know, to go deeper and to have more people in that. And yeah, like we will start like soon the third game, the Muba one. And yeah, we’re not gonna, you know, stop. We’re just gonna continue.

1:11:54 Brian Rose: Sami Shlag, who’s not gonna stop?

1:11:56 Sami Chlagou: That’s a new thing.

1:11:57 Brian Rose: And so potentially some VC coming from the States as well. Maybe I see you had a little trip to San Francisco last year. So, potentially, coming in from the States, if the Yanks smarten up fast enough to get the checkbooks out. But when they see what you’ve created, there’s going to be a lot of interest because like you said, by January, you’re going to be proud and they’re going to see, I mean, they already see what you’ve made.

1:12:22 But it should be something that people can really rally around and say, this is what a web three game can be. Cross the ages is what it can be or this can be one of the keys. One of the keys. Okay. How is Sami Shlag who changed in the last two years?

1:12:37 Brian Rose: How have you changed?

1:12:40 Sami Chlagou: I’m still happy. I still have the smile.

1:12:45 How can I change? I try to take my time for everything I used to do that. But even more now, what I want is to care about everything I say because I don’t want to disappoint and I really want to do my best to be this project that people are waiting for. So how I change, it’s a good question. I think that I still have my routine.

1:13:15 I still have the same way to live. I still have the same way to resolve a problem. And yeah, I’m happy to have the same mentality and to still being able to support the charge and the pressure. So it’s good. If I’m able to do it now, it’s going to be like even easier after.

1:13:38 Brian Rose: You seem like more of a leader and your energy seems even stronger than even two years ago.

1:13:43 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, really?

1:13:44 Brian Rose: That’s what it feels like.

1:13:45 Sami Chlagou: Oh, cool. Nice, nice, nice.

1:13:47 I think that this year was so many, many, many, many experience and you grow up with this experience. It’s like you have a new level. I think that a few years ago, if you put me in the situation of now, I wasn’t able to support that. Sometimes the pressure is so high, so intense. Thanks.

1:14:14 I have my co-founder Richard with me able to grow up and take a part of this pain. But I’m in the worst position. A position that when you start to shine a little bit, the dark is coming exactly on the same way. Everything is coming. It’s logic.

1:14:36 It’s young. It’s like the alteration and you have to. You have to. And you just have to support that. But it’s okay, so it’s fine.

1:14:48 Brian Rose: Well, when I mentioned your name to anybody in this industry, everyone says, oh yeah, Sammy. Sammy crossed the ages. We see him. Everybody sees you. Everybody knows you.

1:14:58 Everybody respects what you’re doing. And I’ve been dropping your name for two years and everyone has that same reaction. You know, you’re very revered by the community for what you do and the vision you have and the standards you keep. That’s across the board. Never heard anyone say anything differently to me.

1:15:13 Sami Chlagou: We will do the max, you know, to keep that. And you know, this is a final goal. You know, if people are happy, if, you know, I don’t want to have like any kind of trouble or whatever, we want to do like good job. We want to create something where everyone is happy. And yeah, we will try to keep that forever, you know.

1:15:32 So it’s like a signature. You know, the smile of Sammy, it’s a signature, you know. We try, you know, to have like the same experience with everyone, you know, with a, it has to be like with you. It can be, you know, with a player. It can be, you know, with a, like people from the community or whatever, you know.

1:15:51 We try to give always the same experience. Right. A great like feeling where people say, I’m happy. Right. You know, you share your happiness.

1:16:00 What does it cost me? Nothing. But it brings like, it’s so easy, you know, and like, wow, this is what you want. Bring that. Every touch point that someone has with Cross the Ages should bring them that happiness.

1:16:14 Yeah. Whether it’s the jacket, the game, the card. Everything. The book. Everything.

1:16:21 Every day I receive a message from people. They say, you can’t imagine how my life changed. I’m so happy. I met so many people, you know, that I don’t care if you card any more of the money that I spent. You paid me back.

1:16:38 And I say, if I’m able to change life of one, it’s done. And I believe that there are many people, you know, really, really happy. And like, when you see how many people are higher from the community, it’s like, they’re so happy, you know, and I’m so happy to have them because, you know, they know the project more than anyone, you know, they know the book, okay, in the page number 72, the sentence that we’re talking about, say, are you really, you learn all the book and say, yes, almost.

1:17:09 It’s so impressive. This happiness is contagious. And this is exactly what we want, you know, it’s like bring, you know, some hope.

1:17:22 I’m not crazy, you know, I’m not telling you that I’m going to change. No, but I will do it, you know, with my possibility. And with my how I can do it, you know, like, if I can, you know, help 1,000, 10,000, whatever, you know, we will scale it step by step to try, you know, to be contagious and doing the job. This is a goal across the ages. It’s an initiation.

1:17:46 Brian Rose: So take me ahead 10 years from now, 2033, what does cross the ages look like?

1:17:51 Sami Chlagou: In 10 years, yeah. It’s going to be like one of the biggest saga. It’s going to be like a serious movie where you’re going to see like all the character and you’re going to see that he told me he told me that he already told me that this is going to happen. I’ve seen it.

1:18:08 Brian Rose: Has it already happened in some way? Have you already seen the movies in your mind?

1:18:13 Sami Chlagou: I’ve seen it. I’ve seen everything. I’ve seen the logo quite before.

1:18:17 Like, I’m not a genius. I don’t have a dream or whatever. But like, I knew it. And it’s why, you know, people told me that, oh, you know, when we told you that the game is, it’s nothing yet. People say, why do you say it’s just the beginning?

1:18:34 Because it’s true. We made nothing. Say yes, but you do. We made nothing. I’m serious.

1:18:41 What I have in my mind, what I’ve seen, make me smile. I’ve seen it. And I knew that’s when we’re going to, when it’s going to happen. You know, the book, the quality of the book is insane. We sign with the biggest publisher that I can expect.

1:19:09 I wait for more than one year to be sure that we can do this deal with them. It’s one of the biggest opportunities ever. And this is why they will translate in so many languages. Because like, they feel the potential completely insane. It’s a long time that we didn’t see Saga.

1:19:30 It’s a long time, you see. Since Game of Thrones. You will see the Saga of Seven book. And it’s not random if you have seven books on Harry Potter and Game of Thrones for years. And it’s not numerology and like I love the number seven or no, they are like a sense on this book and the sense on every book.

1:19:49 The book number three is completely insane. They’re starting. You know, we’re going to start like to publish this book. And yeah, the team of the writers, when you see Alain de Mazzieux, one of the writers saying that this never happened. I’m 55 years old.

1:20:09 He sold millions and millions of books. I never worked with a team like that. Never ever a project. Both like that. And like, the main writers are on the line.

1:20:21 Completely incredible. You know, insane. His talent is like, he’s learning so fast. And like the quality of the book. When you’re going to read the first one, it’s okay, it’s cool, nice.

1:20:32 The second, you say, number three, like say, okay, what’s going to happen? Like you see like the evolution. The evolution of like, you feel inside the story. And you say, it’s happening. Like how this book is just grabbed me, you know, in this reality.

1:20:53 But like, this is exactly similar. Like I’m living something pretty special. And this is the power of Cross the Ages. The power of the name of Cross the Ages. It’s not random.

1:21:08 And from the beginning, it was a goal pretty specific. And this goal was prepared and planned with many people to create something that will help the people, you know, to live better and like to help them, you know, every day in their life. With different aspects.

1:21:25 Brian Rose: Is it no surprise to you that all this AI stuff is happening right now when the game is going or is this the way it was supposed to be?

1:21:34 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, but like for me, you know, I was expected, you know, to be quicker, you know, on the release.

1:21:40 But like, it’s why, you know, I’m not happy yet. I know that it will take time, but like I’m patient. And the people that we’re still there. We’re still here. We’re still with you, you know, we’re not hiding ourselves, you know, to say we’re not answer anymore.

1:22:01 And we give you information. We give you like a date. We are close to you. We created this movie. Like next Friday, you will have like a new movie, you know, for the team.

1:22:11 You’re a true and you will see like what’s going to happen new. And yeah, we’re still here.

1:22:16 Brian Rose: I love that. That’s the theme. We’re still here.

1:22:19 Brian Rose: And this game ultimately answers that question. As humans, do we have a right to exist?

1:22:24 Sami Chlagou: Exactly. That’s it.

1:22:25 Brian Rose: That’s a big question.

1:22:26 It’s a big question. And it’s going to be even a more important question. I’d say every day going forward in the next year or two or three, it’s going to be on everyone’s mind.

1:22:38 Sami Chlagou: When you read the book, you will see like how this book was made. We don’t have good in bed.

1:22:44 It’s not like the people from our country, you know, they’re good. They’re good. And like the mantras are bad. It’s just a question of camera and the vision of camera and your vision and how you feel. I’m no one to tell you what is good or what is bad.

1:23:02 But you will have to see from yourself, from your side, for you angle what you feel is. And this is very important. Your own experience. This is why I told you it’s always a question of choice. It’s always a question of feeling.

1:23:21 And we will push the people to make choice and like to not be like that and say, okay, I do like him. You will do like you feel. This is all the goal of Crossy Ages, help the people, you know, to make choice.

1:23:38 Brian Rose: That’s a sign of great IP. If it makes you think more deeply about your own human experience.

1:23:45 That’s why we’re attracted to art and I guess games and story.

1:23:49 Sami Chlagou: Exactly.

1:23:50 Brian Rose: Teaches us something about ourselves. Sammy, it’s been a huge honor to be a part of this for the last two years. It’s been amazing watching you and I feel really fortunate.

1:24:01 Maybe it was written that you would be one of our really our first investment in London Real pictures.

1:24:07 Sami Chlagou: I remember, yeah.

1:24:08 Brian Rose: It must have been written. So I just love hearing this. I think people can learn so much from your story on the right way to do things or a right way to do things.

1:24:17 And I can’t wait to see what you guys do next. So we’ve seen each other in 2025. It’s okay in two years.

1:24:22 Sami Chlagou: Yeah, let’s do this again in two years. Every two years.

1:24:24 Brian Rose: Maybe we’ll have to do it next year at the rate you’re going.

1:24:29 Sami Chlagou: Two years is gonna be the time of like I think still like the end of the bull market. Top of the bull market.

1:24:37 Brian Rose: This is a note to our future selves. Sell the Bitcoin on the next, Sammy.

1:24:42 End of 2025. Just lighten the positions a little is maybe the idea. Also you reminded me that I’ve got one of your NFTs somewhere. Yes. You kind of gave me last time.

1:24:51 Sami Chlagou: Oh, yeah, I’m gonna follow up on that. Now, we will share about that. The Uniope NFT. Yeah. You’re a super nice NFT.

1:24:59 Brian Rose: We love it. I remember her. Yeah, I remember her and the story and you told me about that. So I’m really excited. But Sammy, wishing you all the best.

1:25:07 Brian Rose: If people want to download the game and go look at the NFT market and get involved and cross the ages by the book, what’s the best way?

1:25:14 Sami Chlagou: The website. You have everything on the website. So you have the link to go to YouTube. The website is really nice and we update it.

1:25:21 So you have all the information. You can go on the Instagram, on the Twitter, Instagram. We are on all the channels. And yeah, if you want to join, if you want to come to this heroes legacy, you will see on the website, everything is ready. It’s free.

1:25:37 So we will be super happy to see you and I think it’s gonna be a huge success. So yeah.

1:25:43 Brian Rose: And that’s the very first Web 3 Gaming live competition.

1:25:47 Sami Chlagou: Absolutely.

1:25:48 Brian Rose: And you’re flying people all over the world.

1:25:51 Sami Chlagou: Yes.

1:25:51 Brian Rose: Man, Yatsuy must be like, wow, this is gangster. He must be loving this. So this is fantastic, man. And you just reminded me that we had this early connection as well to animoca through you, which is a beautiful thing.

1:26:02 And I’ve loved getting to know those people there and my conversations with Yat are always epic about digital property rights in this whole version. So I would say to anyone listening to us that doesn’t understand Web 3 Gaming, you need to go look into it, go to the cross the ages website, and start to investigate this because it is the future in so many ways and your story is incredible. And I just want to say one last thing, Sammy. I mean, I know you off camera and on camera.

1:26:27 You got amazing energy, amazing vibe and it’s no surprise you’re having all this success, man. So I wish you more and I’ll see you in two years. I wish you the best.

1:26:36 Sami Chlagou: Thank you. All the same.

1:26:37 Brian Rose: Thank you, brother. Thank you.