Rob O'Neill - The Man Who Killed Osama Bin Laden: How To Control Panic, Handle Stress & Defeat Fear

Full transcript: Rob O’Neill: How To Control Panic, Handle Stress & Defeat Fear

2:26 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Robert O’Neill, the former US Navy SEAL and special warfare operator turned motivational speaker and author. On May 1st, 2011, after years of extensive planning, your team executed a daring nighttime raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound, where you fired the fatal shot that killed the world’s most wanted terrorist. You have held leadership roles in over 400 combat missions and played a crucial role in the operations that inspired the Hollywood movies Lone Survivor and Captain Phillips. For your service, you received 52 military decorations, including two Silver Stars, four Bronze Star Medals with Valor, and three presidential unit citations. Your book, The Operator, is a New York Times bestseller and recounts your decade in the most intense counterterror effort in US history. Robert, welcome to London Real.

3:13 Rob O’Neill: Thank you, Brian. I appreciate it. great day to speak with you.

3:17 Brian Rose: Yeah, great to have you here. You know, we just had the 19th anniversary of 9/11, and I thought maybe we’d start there. you know, we were just chatting. I was actually in New York City for 9/11, and it was a day I will not forget. I remember the being in a taxi when looked down and we both commented how there was a plane in the World Trade Center and then there was the second plane and then we both knew that something was up and I remember the blue skies. I remember the fighter jets. They scrambled across that place. I remember watching one tower go down. and I remember the aftermath and you know it’s it’s hard to explain to people these days how terrifying that was, you know, and how it no one knew what was next. there were anthrax scares days later in New York and more bomb threats and it was just this time that I don’t even know if we could ever fully convey to the kids, you know, of kind of what it was like back then. But the question I kind of wanted to ask you to start off with is do you think that Osama bin Laden when he watched those towers go down, did he think do you think he thought that maybe.

4:21 Brian Rose: One day he would encounter someone like you that would put an end to this? or do you think that he thought maybe he might go forever without having to kind of face someone for what he did?

4:35 Rob O’Neill: I from the intelligence that I’ve personally read, what he thought was going to happen was they’re going to crash these planes into the Twin Towers and hopefully get part of them to fall over. or burn people above it. you know, because you got to remember that the they’re the ones that never forget. People always say never forget. we keep forgetting to never forget. They attacked the Twin Towers in 1993 with a bomb and their plan in the parking lot was to blow the tower up, knock it into the neck and do whatever. They didn’t think it would be as bad as it was. And they didn’t they thought we not we as Americans, we as a coalition with us, the Western society, they thought we were paper tigers that we weren’t going to come in and get them. And I’ve actually, you know, as weird as it is in Afghanistan, I’ve had I’ve had meals with Taliban eating rice out of the same bowl with our fingers. And they said, “We thought you guys were a joke. If we knew you wanted to come over here, we would have handed him over.” So, no one really.

5:38 Rob O’Neill: Expected the response that we had. And it was a it was a great coalition. you know I because I’ve been Afghanistan many times myself fighting with Navy SEALs fighting with Army special forces fighting with SAS SBS from the UK and from Australia Germans and all this stuff and I don’t think anyone expected to happen what happened and I don’t think he thought we had people who would come to his house and kill him but we proved that we do.

6:10 Brian Rose: Yeah. And like that day on 9/11 also put you on a course to ultimately go into that compound that night which I’d love to get into. But you know that day had a big impact on you as well, didn’t it?

6:23 Rob O’Neill: Well, yeah. I was I was I was actually in the Navy, the US Navy on 9/11. We just finished work in Kosovo and what we were doing was more of a peacekeeping mission where we would send I was a I was a Navy SEAL sniper and we would send people down there just to kind of observe make sure no one was doing anything unruly and that’s what we thought was the as we would say it the biggest game in town Kosovo Bosnia stuff like that and we went back to a unit that we have in Germany a naval special warfare unit in Germany on an army base with you know our German allies And I was in the operations center and like you were saying Brian, they went to breaking news, a plane just hit the north tower of the World Trade Center and they said it was a Cessna or a small plane and we were all looking at it like that’s a big tower and that’s a big hole. Like this is and it’s a beautiful clear day. Tuesday, September 11, 2001. It’s a beautiful day.

7:21 Rob O’Neill: How could this be an accident? And then the second plane hit and instantly we’re like, “Okay, now we’re at war.” And not it’s not just New Yorkers, it’s not just Americans. We are at war now. Our way of life is at war with these fundamentalists and we knew life just changed.

7:36 Brian Rose: Wow. And did then did you decide then that you wanted to become even more involved in special forces.

7:36 Rob O’Neill: Well, I found out I was at SEAL Team 2, like I said, and I found out about SEAL Team Six, which is one of our two tier one units, and I knew that if anyone would get some of these big missions, it would be them because they’re going to I mean, like it or not, Egos aside, they’re going to send the best. They’re going to send SEAL Team 6, they’re going to send Delta Force, they’re going to send the SAS. so I need to I need to get one of the to one of these elite units. So, I went there and you know, it’s it’s sometimes it’s better to be lucky than it is to be good. and you need but I think an important rule in life is wherever you are, be there. And if you’re there, you might get the shot.

8:25 Rob O’Neill: And I just I was lucky enough to be on some of these high-profile missions. I never expected to be on the mission to kill bin Laden. was going to be some of my army brothers from the US or from the UK. It’s never going to be Navy ever, you know, but because he’s in Pakistan, but I was just there and I was willing to do whatever I needed to do and then fortunate you know, the greatest moment of my life is to be honored to be picked for the mission for the guys to go in and try to kill bin Laden. So, it’s just it’s just you know just you know do what you do, be there and your number could get called.

9:04 Brian Rose: Yeah. Can we talk about that mission and maybe bring some people up to speed because you know it’s it’s what nine years ago now you know or just over since that happened. can you tell us kind of what was happening that week before that two weeks before and then the call that you got and kind of what the preparation was and even where the tone was because I guess we’ve been looking for bin Laden for quite some time at that point.

9:28 Rob O’Neill: It was at the point where bin Laden was a ghost and we’re never going to find him. I was I was what we call a battlefield interrogator. So when we would take down targets in Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever, I was the guy that was interrogating al-Qaeda and I would throw him in as a joke like who are the men in the house? What are their names? Why are they here? Where’s Osama bin Laden? And we would both laugh. The terrorist and I would laugh because he’s you’re never going to find him. so but we so we were working in Iraq, working in Afghanistan, and I was on my 12th or 13th deployment overseas, and we came back and I had my guys on a on a diving trip in Miami because the one of the biggest threats was pirates in off the coast of Somalia, off the coast of Africa. So, we’re training there and we’re trying to work on tactics. How do we do this? How do we rescue people?

10:28 Rob O’Neill: Like we rescued my team rescued Captain Richard Phillips from Somali pirates were trying to figure out ways to get on some of these ships and we got a call and they requested the some of the senior guys in my crew to come back to Virginia and some of the guys that were out climbing in Nevada or whatever. And we went into the room and they sat 28 of us down and they said this is not a drill. This is real. we’re doing this. we found a thing and this thing is in a house and this house is in a bowl and this bowl is in a country and you guys you guys are going to go in and get this thing and you’re going to bring it to us and you’re going to show it to us. And so we said, “What’s what’s the thing?” Well, we can’t tell you. Okay. what’s where’s the bowl? Can’t tell you where. what country? Can’t tell you. How much air support do we have? And they said, “None.” Okay, good. At least that’s an answer. And that was it. And they wouldn’t tell us what it was. assumed it was to go after Gaddafi in Libya.

11:30 Rob O’Neill: Because that was April of 2011. The Arab Spring had just come up and it started in Tunisia, worked its way over into Egypt and then Libya. We assumed we’re going to go get Gaddafi and then that was it. So, we, you know, we started getting our gear ready and it’s it just started to click that based on the people who were coming here, this isn’t Gaddafi that they found bin Laden and they’re sending us and it’s a basically a one-way mission and that’s kind of how it is. And then even President Obama was really cool during the mission. He actually told us after we finished the mission that I was never 100% convinced that Osama bin Laden was in the house, but after seeing you guys, I was convinced you guys could go in figure it out and come back alive. That was so that’s how he went. It was never the only person that was sure about it was the woman that found him. She was convinced she was she’s as cool as she looks in the movie Zero Dark Thirty. She was awesome.

12:26 Brian Rose: And what percentage did you give it in your brain?

12:26 Rob O’Neill: I gave it 100% that he was going to be there. I knew he was there. I There was no doubt in my mind he was there because of the woman from the CIA that found him. There was no doubt in my mind. We would get done training. We trained maybe two, three weeks before we went in there. And every single night we’d be standing over a to-scale model of his house. And she would simply say, “Osama bin Laden is on the third floor of this building right here. I don’t understand why we’re not going.” And she’d say, “Good night, guys.” Wow. I was convinced.

12:57 Brian Rose: Okay. And you were practicing in Virginia on a model of the house on.

12:57 Rob O’Neill: Yeah. They had a they had a couple different spots where we went to and they had to-scale models that we could look at from the outside because I want to know what the outside looks like that you can tell from above, but I don’t want to know what you think it looks like inside because you don’t know. so we would we would train day and night and then go talk about it. And it was actually we had some of the best tactical minds in the world talking about this mission and we came up with a perfect plan and we rehearsed the perfect plan day after day after day and night. And then one night one of the very tired bosses were looking at the thing and he said, “All right, what’s the worst thing that could happen?” And the youngest guy in the room said, “The helicopter can crash in the front yard.” And we’re looking at him like, “Why? Why would you say that? Why would you jinx us?” He goes, “I don’t know why. We should talk about that for 30 seconds.” And that’s exactly what happened.

13:55 Rob O’Neill: The worst thing imaginable happened. And it’s one of those things the only time that the perfect plan exists is in the planning room. Once you leave to execute the mission, Murphy shows up and everything changes. And this one young guy suggested the worst thing that could happen. And that’s what happened. But we were able to do it. We were able to take a potentially catastrophic event, turn into something great because we were prepared.

14:10 Brian Rose: And it was four Blackhawks that went in across.

14:20 Rob O’Neill: No, we had two. Two. Just two. We had two Blackhawks that had special technology that I can’t get into. and then we had two 47 Chinooks behind us about 45 minutes behind us. And then we had a couple more 47s behind them and behind them because this was not a partisan deal. This was this was we are going to come fight. And so, President Obama actually was the one, I can’t give him enough praise. he was the one that decided we’re gonna, no, we’re going to bring as much as we can and there’s no way my guys are surrendering to anybody. We’re going to fight.

14:56 Rob O’Neill: Wow. So, yeah, it was one of those things where I thought the entire world would come together and that lasted for a week.

15:03 Brian Rose: Yeah. Oh, you mean afterwards? Yeah. And so, and when did you find out it was actually going to be him then?

15:09 Rob O’Neill: No, we found we knew it three weeks in advance.

15:11 Brian Rose: Okay, gotcha.

15:11 Rob O’Neill: And there was no there was never high fives or celebrating. It was professionals. We’re working with professionals. And it was just u cool. Are we going to get going to go get them now?

15:22 Brian Rose: Right. Okay. And so then you’re ready to go on that final mission and you’re you had to cross that the border of Pakistan, right? To go actually go in. I mean that’s pretty intense. That’s a big decision to make.

15:35 Rob O’Neill: Yeah. We had we had army pilots flying us and they don’t get enough credit for what they did and we had army air crew who they were there to manage the aircraft but most importantly they were they were there to make sure they could open the doors because like we maybe we screw that up. Imagine two helicopters full of Navy SEALs who aren’t smart enough to open the doors. Like I always told them I’m smart enough to carry a sledgehammer and a gun. Tell me where to go. I got this but I need help with this other stuff. And we flew in a Pakistan and we left from Jalalabad airfield which is eastern Afghanistan. And normally we would fly from Jalalabad up to Asadabad, take a left and go into Korengal Valley, the Shuryek Valley, what have you. But this time we took a right. And I remember the pilot came over and said, “All right, you know, feet drive from Pakistan and now we have a 90-minute flight to fly in.” and Pakistan can justifiably shoot us down because we’re invading their airspace.

16:34 Rob O’Neill: And I wouldn’t even be mad at them. Like here, you know, here we come. And but worrying about something that you can’t affect, don’t worry about it. You’re wasting your energy. 90% of the stuff you worry about anyway never happens. So worrying about being shot down by a missile, my worry is not going to stop the missile. So, I’m just I’m sitting there in his helicopter and I actually had a guy next to me who fell asleep and I’m looking at him thinking, “You were asleep on the ride to bin Laden’s house. You have ice in your veins.” And I had the dog Cairo spelled just like the city in Egypt. Cairo was lying next to me. And what I was doing was we brought one canine with us. I was counting from zero to a thousand to zero because keep my mind off of nonsense.

17:26 Rob O’Neill: And it’s a 90-minute flight. 80 minutes into a 90-minute flight, we bank to the south. And I remember counting and it was like all right, 556, 557, 558. Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward and freedom will be defended. And I don’t know how I thought of it. I have a tattoo on my arm. That is that quote. That’s what George W. Bush said on 9/11, “Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward and freedom will be defended.” And that’s when it kind of sunk in and it kind of hit me. Out of body experience like, “Wow, I’m on this mission. We’re going to kill him.” Wow. And it just and I’d accepted death.

18:02 Rob O’Neill: I’d said goodbye to my daughters. we opened the door two minutes out and I just kind of looking around. It’s like this is a resort town in Pakistan. It really is. There’s a golf course right there. and this is this is the Navy SEAL stuff that I signed up for. This we are we are cool. And that’s the thoughts going through my head because I had accepted that I’m going to die. So now I’m just going to And then everything went to hell. First helicopter crash landed. Didn’t crash. It crashed landed. The pilot saved everyone’s lives because he knew from an updraft that he if he overpowered it, he would have killed everyone. He put it down. They set us off in the wrong spot. and we were supposed to, my team was supposed to go on the rooftop and we’re gonna, we’re going to go top down to get bin Laden. But now the pilot, my pilot flew up and flew back down. And he was letting us know through effective communications, you get out.

18:57 Rob O’Neill: So I remember getting out, putting my foot on the ground, I looked down at it and I thought, well, I guess we start the mission from here. And but just it should have been catastrophic, the worst environment imaginable. Like my new guy said, it happened and then here we go.

19:02 Brian Rose: And when your boots are on the ground, is it catastrophic? Is it crazy? I guess it’s not quite.

19:17 Rob O’Neill: It was it was a little bit of confusion, but they picked some of the most experienced fighters in the world to go on this mission. So, we’re we’re ready to handle it. And as we got out, I was looking at Osama bin Laden’s house, and I knew to the to my left, the southeast corner, there was a double-sided door with around the big mud wall. And so we went up there and I grabbed one of my breachers who was a breacher is a methods of entry. He’ll get you in. And he decided he was going to use a 7 foot charge of C6. So he put C6 on the door, blasted it, and the damn door opened. But there’s a brick wall behind it. And he turned around, looked at me, and said, “Failed breach. This is bad.”

20:04 Rob O’Neill: And I said, “No, this is good. That’s a fake door. Nobody does this.” So then I looked over to I knew there was a carport off to my right and again double doors but I knew it worked because they would drive cars in and out. So I said I what I heard the two helicopters were dash one and dash two. So dash one crashed dash two let us out here. But the thing was what Dash one said was I heard them say dash one going around dash one going around meaning they took fire and they’re going to do a racetrack and re-engage. What they said was dash one going down dash one going down and I didn’t know they crashed. So I told them out of a courtesy, “Hey, we’re going to blast the carport.” And someone said to me, “No, don’t blast it. We’ll open it.” and the door opened and a thumb came out with a glove that I recognized. And it’s one of those moments in life. It’s like, you know what? It doesn’t matter how we.

21:06 Rob O’Neill: Got here. We’re just here. They’re in there. We’ll talk about it later. So, my guys are in there for some reason. We walk in there. There’s already been a gunfight going on. My guys had killed a couple terrorists. And then we go into the main house. I remember taking a left looking at bin Laden’s house. to go inside. And as we’re in there, I was I was in a room watch. And I was I remember just being so proud of my guys because this house should blow up. but nobody’s worried about it because worrying about is not we’re going to either die or we’re not. Slow is smooth is fast. Watch them, my guy. So proud of them how they’re just working. And one of the guys next to me said, “Helicopter crashed.” And I said, “What helicopter crashed?” My god. I thought some of the helicopters behind us got shot down because they didn’t have stealth technology.

21:53 Rob O’Neill: Eddie said, “Bro, our helicopter crashed in the front yard. You walked right past him.” So, it started to click in. Oh, okay. Because the pilot Yeah. gotcha. And as we were doing this, one of my snipers was running around the entire compound with Cairo, the dog. And the dog was there for his nose, so no one could escape. when he got to the famous point of the fence where the if you see it on the internet when we blew it up the tail of the helicopter fell over and that’s what they found. But our my sniper didn’t know what that was either and he just saw it right here and he said, “Hey guys, be on alert. They’re ready for us. They have a training mockup of our super secret helicopter in the front yard.” And the boss came over the radio and he goes, “No, jackass. That’s ours. We crashed.” and he said, “Yeah, that makes a lot more sense than what I was saying.” And that was a conversation we’re having inside the house.

22:47 Brian Rose: Wow. And is it quiet? I mean, I guess rounds aren’t going off.

22:51 Rob O’Neill: No. I mean, we’re only shooting at what we want to hit. So, the rounds will be fired and the gunfight’s over in a second and then we’re slowly working our way to we know we need to get to the second floor, the third floor. And the woman that found Osama bin Laden told us that I don’t know where the stairs are, but you’ll run into a stairwell. And when you do, you’re going to run into Khaled bin Laden. He’ll be armed. And if you can get you can finish him, you get a shot at the big guy. And that’s how she said it. And so we went to those stairs and Khaled bin Laden was on the stairs of AK-47 and there were two men, one of my guys and him. They were separated by 10 inches in a railing. they want to kill each other. And they, it was a weird conversation. He said something to Khaled. He came over and he shot Khaled. Then we went up the stairs and I was about seven guys back. We start going up the stairs. The guys in front of me on the second floor start clearing left and right. And then it’s down to two of us, me and one guy. And I’m the number two man. He’s the number one man.

23:53 Rob O’Neill: And we’re looking up the stairs. And at the top of the stairs there was a curtain. not a door but just a curtain like a shower curtain and there were people moving behind it. So I had my hand on his shoulder and I’m looking for other guys and his job is to go up and he just started talking to me. Hey, we got to go. We got to get up there. We got to go. And he said something to me to convince me and it wasn’t bravery on my part by any means. It was more of a let’s get this over with. I’m tired of thinking about it. I’m gonna I’m gonna blow up now. And I gave him a squeeze in the shoulder. We walked up the stairs. He moved the curtain and he sort of jumped on these people that he thought were suicide bombers. so he gave up his life for the guy behind him, which is crazy to think about. He jumped on them and because he went this way, I went that way and there was Osama bin Laden standing there and he’s got his hands on his wife Amal’s shoulders and he’s sort of pushing her to three feet away and I looked at him. I could close my eyes and see it whenever I want. It’s it’s he’s taller than I thought. He’s skinnier than I thought. His beard is gray, but that’s his nose. He’s not surrendering.

24:59 Rob O’Neill: He’s a threat. He’s a suicide bomber. I got to engage. And so I shot him twice in the face. And then he fell down. I shot him again. And then I moved I grabbed his wife Amal to get her out of the fight. And then and then and their two-year-old son was standing there. And this is the humanity aspect of it. Like it’s as a father, I saw this 2-year-old kid. It’s like he’s got nothing to do with this. So I picked him up, put him next to his mom on the bed. Other Navy SEALs were coming in the room. I can hear bin Laden taking his last breaths and one of my guys came up to me and he put his hand on my shoulder and he said, “you good?” And I said, “No, what do we do now?” And he said he said, “Now we find the computers. We do this every night. Hundreds of times we’ve done this.” And I said, “Yeah, you’re you’re right. You’re right. I’m back.” Wow. And he said, “Yeah, you just killed Osama bin Laden. Your life just changed.

25:56 Rob O’Neill: Let’s get to work.” That was it.

26:00 Brian Rose: Wow. his wife in front of him, was he was he trying to use her to protect him?

26:05 Rob O’Neill: I don’t know. I don’t know what he was doing. He just he was move he the only way I can describe it is he wasn’t surrendering. And I don’t know if he was pushing her toward we were within three feet of each other. So I don’t know what I don’t know if you read the article that she wrote and she wrote it. Amal bin Laden wrote an article about us coming up from the opposite end. I think he was saying to her they’re not they’re not here for you, they’re here for me or something like that. So I don’t know. I can’t I don’t know what he was thinking and everything happens so fast and anyone can Monday morning quarterback it. But this is life and death stuff in the blink of an eye and I assumed he was he was going to blow me up.

26:50 Brian Rose: Wow. And this is Are you seeing all this with night vision goggles or is there some light source there?

26:55 Rob O’Neill: Oh, night vision. We were good at night vision. We got really good at night vision. Okay. So, that’s it. You had to have night vision to see what was going on. Otherwise, you couldn’t see anything there.

27:04 Brian Rose: Wow. and so then it’s it’s what happens next? I mean, how many people had to die there?

27:11 Rob O’Neill: We so we killed five people on target and they were all terrorists and you know they would do worse things to us than we did to them. But the complex thing was they because we put a helicopter down the front yard. We blew the helicopter up and then we had to get rescued. Yeah. So another helicopter came in and a cool thing that a lot of people don’t know is that SEAL Team 6 was rescued by SEAL Team Six. So they flew in to get us and we you know we and these are the like when we put Osama bin Laden body in a body bag and we brought him out downstairs and when we put him on the on the ground it was ne next to one of our snipers was holding security that sniper was the guy who initiated the fire to kill the pirates that had Captain Phillips. like these are the same dudes like very small community and so when we went out we put the we put Osama bin Laden body here a helicopter came in here another one came over there and as we’re going to our helicopter.

28:15 Rob O’Neill: There was a guy that you can look up on Twitter who was actually live tweeting like I can’t believe they’re they’re doing a training mission on a Sunday or whatever he was he was he had his phone in his face his face is lit up and I as I’m going to my helicopter I looked at him and normally in a combat environment, if someone has a phone out, you couldn’t engage because they’re going to set off a bomb. But I remember looking at this guy and I thought they have no idea that we’re here. We’re So we got in a helicopter and we started flying away. And now we’re on a mission where we’re not supposed to live.

28:52 Rob O’Neill: But now we can live. If we can if we can survive 90 minutes if we can fly out for 90 minutes. Yeah. It’ll take us take us 90 minutes to fly across to the Afghan border and they’ve got to be aware of something. But if we can live 90 minutes I get to see my kids.

29:08 Brian Rose: Were you worried about getting shot down on the way back out?

29:11 Rob O’Neill: I’m worried because worrying is not going to help. So I all I did was I started my watch and I’m I’m watching it and I know we I know we got 90 minutes. So I’m I’m sitting there and there’s a bunch of Navy SEALs on this helicopter. We got rescued by a Navy SEAL. Actually, one of the guys, one of the Navy SEALs, his name is Rob also. He’s from Manhattan. And he looked at me and he asked the question that every Navy SEAL asked every Navy SEAL when they found out bin Laden was dead. He said, “Who got him?” And I said, “I did.” And he goes, “On behalf of my family. Thank you.” So now we’re we’re we’re watching the wash and no one’s talking and the loud the turbine engines and all that stuff and it’s been 10 minutes and it’s been 20 minutes.

29:56 Rob O’Neill: It’s been 30 minutes. Now it’s 40. Now it’s 50. We got to get to 90. And I love sports analogies because of the whole team aspect and I started thinking about like a no hitter being pitched at the top of the seventh in Yankee Stadium. It’s like, I’m not going to say anything. I don’t want to jinx it, but it’s been 70 minutes. It’s been 80 minutes. And then there was some footage from when the US hockey team beat the Russians in Lake Placid in the Olympics in 1980. And you can hear people counting down. 10, nine, nervously. Eight. We can still screw this up. Six.

30:33 Rob O’Neill: Five. And then all of a sudden, the pilot of the aircraft is flying us out. He announced to us, “All right, gentlemen, for the first time in your lives, you’re going to be happy to hear this. Welcome to Afghanistan.”

30:42 Brian Rose: Wow. And because the Pakistani government didn’t hear about this for like till like the next day.

30:54 Rob O’Neill: Yeah. They were they were upset because there’s different entities of the Pakistani government that there were people protecting him and for whatever reasons, you know, their own interests. the their intelligence service was definitely hosting bin Laden because they don’t want them to whatever. Politics is politics. We’ve seen it.

31:13 Brian Rose: Right. So you couldn’t tell them anything by definition.

31:15 Rob O’Neill: Oh no. If we if we told Pakistan we were coming in, he would have been gone.

31:18 Brian Rose: Right. Wow. Wow. And so how many guys ended up going in total?

31:25 Rob O’Neill: 23 of our guys. And then we had two air crew per helicopter and then two pilots per helicopter.

31:33 Brian Rose: Okay. And you burned the helicopter that crashed landed.

31:38 Rob O’Neill: We tried. We blew it up, but part of the tail fell over the side and then our allies, the Pakistanis were nice enough to sell it to China.

31:47 Brian Rose: Got it. Okay.

31:48 Rob O’Neill: And they ended up with stealth helicopters a few months later. Weird.

31:52 Brian Rose: And the locals there on the scene, like you said, it’s like a resort. They really didn’t know what happened.

31:57 Rob O’Neill: The locals the locals were fine. They u they were more curious like what’s going on here? And we had a guy there that spoke Urdu and he was telling them this is just an training exercise. Please go home. And they were they the movies make it more dramatic than it actually is. They were actually there, you know, and that was one of our issues going in too because we’re not a war with them. And they’re good people and we’re not coming in here to shoot you, right? And they kind of showed up and same with like the Pakistani police. We didn’t want to engage the police because you don’t know what’s going on. We don’t want to hurt you. That’s not what we’re here for, right?

32:25 Brian Rose: And none of your guys got hurt.

32:35 Rob O’Neill: No.

32:36 Brian Rose: So, what do you And in a in a postgame analysis, how do you evaluate what happened and what the mission was? How did you guys do? Could any other force have pulled that off?

32:46 Rob O’Neill: We Yes. as far as other people pulling it off, absolutely. and I the utmost confidence in my guys in my counterparts and yes, they could have done it. we did a great job. I would say an A+ for getting bin Laden, but an F+ for the way we like nothing happened, but we were we were very prepared. We could effect effectively communicate with each other. But yeah, if it was if this job was given to the Special Boat Service, Special Air Service, it was given to Delta Force, given to the Marine Raiders, yeah, they could have done it.

33:21 Brian Rose: You think as well, I mean, as long as they had the pilots, the pilots,.

33:21 Rob O’Neill: I think the US Army pilots are the best in the world, and I’ll stand behind them. as long as they’re flying, you’re going to be fine. They’ll be anywhere in the world in, you know, plus or – 5 seconds.

33:34 Brian Rose: Wow. And there famously was a digital picture taken of bin Laden and they got it back to confirm. Was that done on scene or was that done when you got back?

33:42 Rob O’Neill: Well, there’s no pictures of it. We have pictures. Okay. That picture’s faked. We do have pictures of him and they’re in a desk in a in a drawer somewhere in Langley, Virginia. But we have them.

33:54 Brian Rose: Okay.

33:55 Rob O’Neill: But the ones that have been leaked are not real.

33:56 Brian Rose: Okay. But the identification was done when you got back.

34:00 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, we did it a couple different times. We had we did some DNA testing and we took pictures and we talked to his daughters and the way actually that it was told to us was we had an Arabic speaker there and she said, “Okay, that’s him. That’s She Osama is what she called it.”

34:15 Brian Rose: Wow. And you got a ton of intel as well, right?

34:18 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, we got a bunch. I wish we could have stuck around for a week to get more, but we pretty much decimated al-Qaeda in one night.

34:24 Brian Rose: Wow. And you were there a total of an hour less? 47 minutes. How long? 47 minutes. 47 minutes. Wow. And why did the helicopter crash land in the end? What was the cause of that?

34:36 Rob O’Neill: No. The pilot told me there was an updraft that he couldn’t control and he needed to put it down as opposed to trying to power up. That’s And I’m not a pilot again. The pilots are smart guys. They’re Well, it’s one of those things where you know, people always make fun of pilots when they have a very monotone voice when you’re on a flight like you know we’re at 38,000 ft blah. because and like when you hit turbulence, they’ll say, “Well, obviously we’re experiencing some rough air.” And the reason is because I don’t need to freak you out. Like imagine if a pilot came over and said, “We’re all going to die.” Like, yeah, that’s for sure.

35:00 Brian Rose: Wow. Well, you know, it’s crazy because, you know, you say anybody or you say other services could have pulled it off, but you know, having to all those seasoned vets, I mean, there’s probably a hundred decision points in there that have gone wrong would have been bad. like for example blowing those doors when you shouldn’t have or you know there’s a lot of experience there that made that mission turn out.

35:23 Rob O’Neill: I mean that’s why they picked us and when I when I say it could have been any other service fine but I want you to pick the most experienced guys that have done that have seen it and done it and know how to how to work how to calmly communicate with your guys and get through a situation so I you know I wouldn’t pick the most junior SEAL Team six guy I wouldn’t pick the most junior SAS guy I would pick the senior guys who have experience who know how to how to well this sucks calm down and then deal with it. We have them everywhere. I’ve dealt with.

35:55 Brian Rose: What are those days afterwards? I mean you know what’s the feeling from your you know your fellow team members? Do you get a call from Obama like and then what’s the public reaction as well?

36:08 Rob O’Neill: Yeah. Well, I mean, it was weird because that was it was one of those things that you can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube like it’s out and a secret like I was mentioning earlier. everybody asked the same question, who got it? And my name came out and it sucks. and you know, a lot of guys were imagine working so hard in your career to get to a point that you’re the best of the best. You’re so close to killing bin Laden, but you don’t. You’re going to be upset. And I would too. I mean, I’ve seen my guys do missions where I’m like, why wasn’t that me? But it wasn’t. And it was tough. I mean, this is this is a lot to deal with. This is this is this is life-changing. And I was going to be in the Navy for 30 years, retired as a master chief, and I already had the line for when I was going to be a trainer in San Diego, you know. All right, today guys, we’re going to do a 10 mile run. And of course, by we, I mean you know, all that stuff. but it’s just, you know, it’s it’s it’s ever evolving and just take it as it goes. I mean, this is not an e this is not an easy burden to bear, but I um.

37:11 Rob O’Neill: And even with my name coming out, I’ I’ve had survivors, family members of people who died 9/11 and they said putting a real name with a real face, it helps the healing process. And I, you know, I’ve I’ve helped people before and I and I’ve accepted the burden and I’ll I’ll continue to do it.

37:32 Brian Rose: Is that why you eventually came out and said it was you because to give those people some closure and again there was a hesitation but there was a hesitation to do that because this the SEAL code was it’s a union.

37:44 Rob O’Neill: Well, no. Don’t buy that for a second. There is no SEAL code. Okay. Don’t even believe that nonsense. People tell me about this code of silence. I’m like, “Yeah, I read about it in the military section of Barnes & Nobles.” Like, there’s there is that’s all nonsense.

37:54 Brian Rose: Okay, gotcha. So, explain that.

37:59 Rob O’Neill: By the way, if anyone ever tells you, “well, I can’t talk about it.” That’s because they didn’t do anything. There are no there are no missions that they can’t talk about. That’s nonsense.

38:08 Brian Rose: Okay. And so you’re saying when you even you got back and they found out you shot him, they were envious of you?

38:15 Rob O’Neill: I wouldn’t say that. I mean, it’s just it’s just it’s just more awkward than anything. And it just I mean it’s I’ve I’ve seen it before with Captain Phillips with the sniper that took the shots to rescue him and his guys were mad at him because he just happened and he was so the guy that I know that took most of the shots. I remember talking to him on the on the boat and I said you just did the most historic thing in the history of the SEAL Teams and he said cool can we go home? Like very humble guys.

38:46 Brian Rose: Humility I think is a great trait that we have, right?

38:49 Rob O’Neill: But some other guys just I mean and again nothing against them. Everyone with whom I served nothing but love and honorable people just sometimes they get angry and it is what it is. I don’t know. And it’s also a bunch I’ I’ve been asked before too. They’re like, “Well, you know, they said that you didn’t you didn’t kill bin Laden.” And I’m like, “You know what? I wish I didn’t, but I’m just telling you what happened.”

39:09 Brian Rose: Right. Right. because it gives you all sorts of heat from the teams because you did. And so you said you were going to spend your whole career there. Why didn’t you?

39:22 Rob O’Neill: It was just time. We I was fortunate to I was part of the team that rescued my friend Marcus Luttrell, lone survivor. I was part of the team that rescued Captain Rich Phillips. I was on the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. I was on the base when Bowe Bergdahl walked off and we tried to rescue him. And then on August 6th, 2011, a helicopter Extortion 17 was shot down, killed 31 Americans some of my best friends in the world. And it was just it was just time. Like all it takes is a lucky shot. And I want to see my daughters get married and it’s time to leave. And I did one more combat deployment and it was it.

39:59 Brian Rose: Wow. And you’re on all those missions because I’m guessing you’re good at what you do.

40:04 Rob O’Neill: I No, like I said, just right place, right time, you can be lucky. Just be there. Five times. Five times in a row. Well, yeah. Did I’m not sure if I told you the story. I had an army buddy of mine tell me that he I reminded him of the Forrest Gump of the Navy, only I’m not as good-looking. I can’t run as fast, which is kind of an insult. I’m like, what the what was that?

40:28 Brian Rose: But I mean, you were on a lot of really important missions that I guess ended up being well-known missions as well. I’m sure there was other ones we didn’t know.

40:36 Rob O’Neill: Well known. Yeah. because there were yeah there were other ones and there are people out there men and women right now that have a harder job than I ever did. just my some of mine were high-profile just because of you know whatever’s going on. But there are there are people driving down the streets that could be blown up at any second and it’s that’s very dangerous daytime. no radios, no night vision. We could we could accept our missions as we wanted and there are people out there still that don’t have them.

41:05 Brian Rose: Yeah. Is it hard to come back from a mission like bin Laden because it’s hard to top something like that? I mean, do you get this weird kind of feeling a month after like I’m never going to go on as high-profile mission as that?

41:18 Rob O’Neill: Yeah. And it’s almost like when you’re picking a mission to do, it’s you kind of question like is it is it really important? Like do we really need to do this? You know, I mean I actually got to the point too where I think a lot of people in combat get killed because they get bored. and you know we haven’t gone out in five days. We got to go out tonight and I would question that. Is it really that important? Okay. Do we really need to do this? Do I really need to shoot this guy we’re going after? Like what’s what’s his deal? You know, so the older I get, the smarter I get, the worse I get at golf, the more I question things.

41:55 Brian Rose: And you were quick to say there’s no code of silence in the SEALs. So what so what is the SEALs then? I mean, obviously it’s a bunch of alpha guys that are really probably intense and perfectionist. They want to be the best. but that also doesn’t mean there’s this weird code like it’s some type of medieval society.

42:15 Rob O’Neill: The weird code was made by older guys who missed the war who were jealous of the younger guys who happen to fight and they decided to sit around a bottle of Jack Daniels and write this stupid code that doesn’t exist. I mean, I the reason a lot of people join the SEAL teams is because of a lot of books written by SEALs in Vietnam, right? So, it’s like I said, we have a code of silence, but you know, I read Rogue Warrior, which is awesome, by Richard Marcinko. I read Point Man by James “Patches” Watson, which is awesome. And I’m happy they wrote those books to I think it’s I think it’s a very know your heritage, know your history, and a lot of these guys that fought in these **** sorry crappy wars. know what they did and there’s no reason with telling your kids what you did. And there the code of silence is by people like I said if you ever hear anyone say I don’t talk about it. Well, you didn’t do anything.

43:06 Brian Rose: Right. Right. And you first talked about what happened that night without mentioning your name in the magazine. Is that because you felt.

43:06 Rob O’Neill: Well, that was the point. I didn’t want it to I didn’t want to I don’t want to take credit because I’m the first one to say that it was the people better than I was able to go to work every single day with people who were better than me. And I simply shot bin Laden because a man braver than I went that way and then I had to go that way and that’s it. Because we knew our tactics and the pilots that got us don’t get credit. the intel analysts that found out where they were. You know, it was I, you know, I went in there with it with body armor, a sledgehammer, and a gun. And I don’t I’ve never taken I don’t want to take credit for it. I just happen to be there.

43:48 Brian Rose: Right. It was a team total team effort. But it does give families some closure when they see you and meet.

43:51 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, it does.

43:55 Brian Rose: And they can say thank you and this is kind of done.

43:57 Rob O’Neill: Well, yeah. Because they have they have different stories. every single family has a different story. There’s a I know a woman that her husband was in the South Tower and he was talking to her. I met her at a at a at an event in New York and she said, “Yeah, I’m on the phone.” I was like, “Honey,” she was like, “Honey, please get out. Please get out.” He’s like, “No, I’m fine. It’s the other tower. We’re good.” And then phone’s blank because the South Tower got hit. And she just said, “I, you know, we never found his remains, but because you guys went in, thank you.” And that’s it. And we’re not looking for a thank you, but it’s to if I you know, if we can help a couple people at a time, we can help hundreds of thousands of people.

44:35 Brian Rose: Yeah. How did your life change after you became public? Both good and bad those you know years afterwards.

44:42 Rob O’Neill: No, I mean it’s been it’s been overwhelmingly good. Okay. people like to say hi, people like to talk and people like to tell their story. I don’t I don’t even tell my story to them. They want to tell me their story. And it’s really cool to hear from that and the negativity doesn’t it doesn’t really it’s only on Twitter from what not other SEALs just people.

45:10 Brian Rose: Oh no that’s is how it works. Yeah.

45:13 Rob O’Neill: They’ll people do what they do right.

45:13 Brian Rose: And like 10 years on do you do you look do you ever look at the whole thing differently? Do you ever get philosophical about all this stuff and you know life and death and their side versus our side?

45:26 Rob O’Neill: Of course. Yeah. the older I get, the more I think about it. And it’s almost it’s almost weird that if we just took a minute to understand each other as people because you the older I get, I you know, I realize that some of us we’re just fighting each other because we’re born in different places. Like we’re like I’ve thought about people that I’ve shot and I’ve been like, you know what, would we have been better off having a beer together? like what just we just believe we believe something we were taught by someone else and that’s why like I’m 33 you’re 33 and I shoot you because your parents taught you something that I don’t believe you know it’s like just you know take a wrap off I really I really I truly believe that most people are good and I just I wish we could bring that out.

46:16 Brian Rose: Yeah. And applies to a lot of stuff happening today which I want to get into that as well. You said you kind of you said you kind of broke bread with some or you know scooped rice with some of the Taliban guys in Afghanistan. I mean have you looked down you know have you have you seen a you know mujahideen or a Taliban and looked at them and been like I respect these guys for what they do and the fighters they are?

46:33 Rob O’Neill: The Taliban were different because they were they’re fighters and they know how to fight and they’re and they’re like face to face legit I don’t want to say man to man but they’ll tell you how it is and we would set up meetings with them and seriously you’re you’re you’re what always amazed me is they had ice cold Coca-Cola but no ice and then you would be eating rice with your hand out of it and you just talk to him like hey you know I know your brother the Taliban, I need to talk to him and they would say no and that’s negotiation, you know, that’s that’s that’s what you do and just different. But yeah, we Yeah, I mean, but again, too, just the whole why are we shooting each other?

47:23 Rob O’Neill: Is it worth it? I mean, like Iraq, I fought in Iraq a couple times, too. when Iraq was one of those wars where people ask me what I think about it’s like well you know we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq but we also shouldn’t have left Iraq it’s like why are we here it’s like you know maybe we need to start putting smart people in charge.

47:42 Brian Rose: Yeah I mean that’s hard when you have to because you’re there to do the work I mean politicians send troops in right so you know I guess you have to do you have to avoid trying to think about the why sometimes and focus on the what.

47:57 Rob O’Neill: Well, yeah. I mean, but we what’s what’s the point? What are we doing? What are we doing? And even explaining to politicians and higher up generals what we’re doing here, why how we can solve it, and they would tell us, “No, it’s like, well, you’re not on the ground. You don’t you don’t know what’s happening here.” And it’s it’s all very personal. talking to the locals, talking to the people. Like, winning hearts and minds is not handing out tea and cookies. Winning hearts and minds is stimulating their economy. going to the bazaar, not being a threat, and trying to explain to your leaders that regardless of your intent, if you’re here long enough, you will be seen as invader. So, you’re an occupier. You can’t do it, right?

48:39 Rob O’Neill: And but they don’t want to believe it because they, you know, everything is political to a certain pay grade and they just all they want is you get to a point where all they want is their next promotion. I want to stay elected. I And that’s it is what it is. It’s just it’s shameful.

48:50 Brian Rose: Yeah, you mentioned the Somali. What were some of the different aspects of being in that theater of war where it’s like pirates and commercial ships and there’s not necessarily an enemy to engage with? I mean, how is that a different situation than, you know, bin Laden or Afghanistan?

49:11 Rob O’Neill: That was an odd one because we were very aware that these are not terrorists. They are they’re people trying I mean as bad as it seems they’re just trying to make a living in a in a bad environment. So you know we didn’t go in there to kill them. We didn’t want to shoot those guys. We wanted to get the hostage. And it’s almost like you want you actually want to negotiate with them and tell them we know you’re sorry my wife’s over there. you know we don’t want to be we didn’t come here to kill you but knock it off and you just can’t you got you got to negotiate but sometimes you can’t.

49:41 Brian Rose: Right and you couldn’t in the Captain Phillips case.

49:48 Rob O’Neill: No well they were they started portraying bad actors and they were they were threatening him in so snipers engaged.

49:56 Brian Rose: Wow and the lone survivor what’s it like watching something that you knew a lot of details like on the big screen do they get some things right some things wrong.

50:03 Rob O’Neill: You know they get a lot of things right the mountains weren’t steep enough. The terrain wasn’t bad enough. just the scariest environment imaginable. you know, they did a good job training Danny Dietz and Mike Murphy and Matt Axelson, the guys that died there. but that was too big of a story to tell in an hour and a half. But they did an excellent job. A good movie.

50:27 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s it seemed I mean just watching it seemed like there were authentic touches to it.

50:42 Rob O’Neill: They did a good job of portraying the brotherhood.

50:44 Brian Rose: Right. Right. talk to me about present day. what’s happening in America and you seem to stay in the news as well.

50:53 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, I have a tendency to do that.

50:56 Brian Rose: Tell me about that. I mean, you were in the news, I think, for not wearing a mask on a plane flights.

51:01 Rob O’Neill: That’s not the case. I took a mask off because by contract I was allowed to take a mask off as I was eating and drinking and they were feeding me. So I just took a picture and bad choice of words. And if you know I’m a I like to joke with people. If you make enough bad jokes you’re going to get caught. That’s all it was. So it’s what it is.

51:22 Brian Rose: So you were joking with what the airline attendants and then they.

51:22 Rob O’Neill: No, I was just joking. I was like how are we safe all of a sudden? Like I can walk to a table to sit down and now we’re good. Like coronavirus doesn’t exist when I’m sitting down. That’s all it was.

51:30 Brian Rose: Did they throw you off the flight?

51:30 Rob O’Neill: Oh, no. No. They didn’t tell me about it. They didn’t say a word to me.

51:38 Brian Rose: Did they ban you?

51:41 Rob O’Neill: They did ban me, but they didn’t tell me about it.

51:43 Brian Rose: Oh, just afterwards they saw your picture.

51:45 Rob O’Neill: Well, I had a flight the next day from JFK to LA and then they said, “No, you can’t fly.” Well, they called me and said, “Yeah, you can’t fly.” And they’re like, “You serious?” Like, “Yeah, you’re banned from Delta until we stop wearing masks.” Wow. I didn’t hear about it. No one said anything to me. Yeah. No, it was because the New York Post caught my tweet and they were pressuring Delta Airlines, the PR department. That’s it.

52:09 Brian Rose: Gotcha. And so, what’s your read on the past six months in America, in the world, a lot of crazy stuff going on. I mean, you do bring a different perspective. What is your perspective?

52:17 Rob O’Neill: I’m a I’m a if the whole mask thing like I had six masks with me that I paid $24 a piece from packs of three and if me wearing a mask makes you feel safe I’ll wear it. That’s it. I was just making light of a situation. no right now I mean with the I think coronavirus is real and people are being affected and I’m not trying to make light of them and you know I wish everyone the best always but I also think it’s being politicized like everything else. It’s a shame. shouldn’t do that.

52:49 Brian Rose: Yeah. Tell me about, you know, you’re in New York City right now. I used to live there. I also used to live in San Diego where you used to live as well. And you know, I’ve watched from over here in the UK, you know, the land that I love turn into something I don’t recognize. Sometimes it looks like more like the places you fought in war. what’s it like to watch the mayhem and what’s your read on what’s happening?

53:11 Rob O’Neill: Well, I think that police are getting a bad rap. most cops are good. and it’s it’s a shame what they’re doing because it’s getting spun by a lot of the media to make cops look bad, which they’re not. and you’re going to get a bad apple everywhere, like we always say. a lot of this stuff is being funded by people like George Soros, who for some reason he’s paid off so many media outlets to you’re not allowed to talk about him and he’s a problem. and he’s he’s so deep with his network. He’s he’s got people paid off.

53:46 Rob O’Neill: Attorneys general, all kinds of stuff like that. It’s I don’t know why, but they love the Marxist attitude of destroy the West. It’s, you know, it’s never worked. And I mean, it’s like these a lot of these riots are not they’re not they’re not protests. These are U-Haul trucks pulling up, organized, paid off, pulling out signs, saying bad stuff, and they’re just like the whole they’ve hijacked Black Lives Matter, which I obviously believe Black Lives Matter, but this Marxist group that’s taken it over, generally run by white people, it’s it’s just it’s a shame.

54:25 Rob O’Neill: They’re just trying they want destruction disruption, and it’s just it’s a shame.

54:25 Brian Rose: Yeah, they’re literally weaponizing that whole concept,.

54:34 Rob O’Neill: But they’re taking it over and because a lot of the stuff that’s that’s some of the search engines that kind of run the whole show, they’re really not showing the minority population that they’re hijacking Black Lives Matter so they can do their Marxist movement. It’s a shame.

54:50 Brian Rose: Yeah, I was talking to Tim Kennedy about this who we both know you know former Green Beret and you know crazy and former MMA fighter but you know Tim was he’s very serious about pointing out that you know there’s a lot of also foreign actors in here stirring it up both in domestically and online and to think that they’re not based on his experience overseas and probably what you’ve seen is just being really naive not to think that there’s all sorts of forces trying to destabilize America.

55:14 Rob O’Neill: Of course there are.

55:21 Brian Rose: Yeah. And yet people I don’t think people can see that’s possible, you know, on the ground. And again, you talked about like those Taliban guys or the people you were fighting like the only reason you’re fighting is because they were told some narrative. Do you ever see a parallel with what’s happening on the streets? Like sometimes these people are out there maybe because Soros cut a $10 million check and ran this ad and the brick showed up and all of a sudden they’re getting shot and they’re like if you ask them why are you here, they might not actually be able to tell you.

55:44 Rob O’Neill: They have no idea. They have no idea what they’re what they’re talking about. a lot they’re they’re being paid to be there. Yeah. You got to figure. So we got Portland, Oregon, where they’ve been protesting for the past 100 days or whatever it is. None of them have jobs. They’re all housed and fed and clothed. You know, who’s funding them? Why, you know, why aren’t we prosecuting them? These are domestic terrorists.

56:16 Brian Rose: And why can’t we?

56:16 Rob O’Neill: Political correctness.

56:20 Brian Rose: What do you make of political correctness?

56:20 Rob O’Neill: Nonsense. It’s ridiculous.

56:25 Brian Rose: Why do you think it’s here in such a massive way? I mean, it’s it started a long time ago.

56:29 Rob O’Neill: I remember talking about this with my father in the 90s, and it’s like you’re you will get prosecuted for telling the truth. And the truth doesn’t matter because once you once you tell the truth, they’re going to they’re going to lay the hammer down. What do they say? How do you want to make a conservative mad, lie to him. You want to make a liberal mad, tell him the truth.

56:52 Brian Rose: And our media seems to have been co-opted by that liberal.

56:56 Rob O’Neill: I mean, Nikita Khrushchev said that in 1950s. He said, “We’re going to destroy America from within.” And you can’t without firing a shot. And the way we’re going to do is we’re going to take over your media, take over your entertainment, take over your schools. And they did.

57:11 Brian Rose: Are you surprised how far it’s come? No. Really?

57:16 Rob O’Neill: No. The indoctrination hasn’t surprised me at all.

57:18 Brian Rose: Did you think it was going to happen this quick and by se September of this year?

57:22 Rob O’Neill: I figured I figured it happened in the ’90s.

57:24 Brian Rose: Okay. Wow. And what are the next couple months look like in America, the election and post-election?

57:31 Rob O’Neill: Well, that’s going to be really interesting because the only way that the liberals can win is through voter fraud, which they’re very capable of. And because Donald Trump would win in a landslide, but who know like the postal service union back Joe Biden and it’s like so we can trust you to deliver the mail in like the mail fraud’s insanity. I don’t know. It’ll be interesting. I It is what it is. I mean I’m trying to be an optimist, you know, wish for the best, but I you know it’s it all comes out of Florida. That’s That’s the state.

58:11 Rob O’Neill: Oh, yeah. Florida’s it. Like, can you if Trump loses Florida, just turn the TV off. Go to bed. You have a new president, Kamala Harris.

58:18 Brian Rose: Wow. Are you going to like batten down the hatches for a couple months in November, December?

58:23 Rob O’Neill: I’m an optimist. I tell people all the time, too, that I’m not They ask me if I’m a Republican or Democrat. I said, I’m an American. I’m I really believe in people. And it’s just it’s a shame that politicians get this involved that are the basis of everything.

58:39 Brian Rose: Okay. All right. It’s going to be interesting to watch to say the least. are you out there a lot speaking with corporates and trying to teach them some of the lessons you learned as a SEAL?

58:51 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, I do get out there quite a bit. I talk to people about success how to be successful, the what we learn as Navy SEALs and training and training for combat and combat and how it applies to normal life and just ba basically success a successful company is high morale and if people are happy they’re going to work harder. And the way you keep morale high is telling them what they need to know when they need to know it, why they’re doing what they’re doing, and effective communication. you know, there’s nothing wrong with giving someone a genuine compliment for genuine work to let them know they’re part of the solution.

59:34 Brian Rose: You know, I we’ve seen, you know, some guys come back from the SEALs and go out there and try to take some of that training and teach it to corporations. Like when you go into that type of scenario that’s non-military based or non-special forces based, what are typically like some of the most obvious things that you have to sit down and talk to people about? Is it like communication or you know Jocko’s got his extreme ownership? I’m just wondering like what are some of the things that almost always seem to happen in those environments that they can learn from you?

1:00:03 Rob O’Neill: Humor really. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it light. don’t be afraid to have a good joke. and again, keep morale high. Like I had a I had a I had a Navy SEAL boss of mine that came in one day and he said he walked on a stage and he’s looking to the guys and he said, “looking good today, gents. Not you, me. I know you’re thinking I look a little tired.” It’s because I am tired. I was up all night. I had to get my wife out of jail. She was arrested for shoplifting earlier that afternoon. We were leaving the mall together and she had her arm around me.

1:00:40 Rob O’Neill: Security thought she was trying to steal an anatomy chart, just keeping it light.

1:00:48 Brian Rose: And that’s that’s what most corporations need to learn.

1:00:51 Rob O’Neill: No. Well, they the effect of communication you know just because you’re talking doesn’t mean you’re communicating. Keep it, you know, keep it simple. One of our one of our best acronyms is KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. KISS it. avoid the noise. when we would the less we talk the better we were because we got rid of the nonsense. So just because you’re talking doesn’t mean you’re communicating. It’s like the email you got today that says FYI C below C below FYI. Someone puts K. Where’s the message?

1:01:29 Rob O’Neill: Stop talking. And we would read off each other. So, but yeah, make sure your people know why they’re doing it. And a lot of people, for some reason, think it’s cool to say you don’t need to know. You’re on a need to know basis. You don’t need to know, which is nonsense. They need to know. Tell them why they’re doing it.

1:01:49 Brian Rose: And what do you do? What do you spend your time mostly with now? Is it kind of speaking and consulting and trying to get.

1:01:57 Rob O’Neill: Speaking? I do some events. I’ve got a foundation, special operators found u transition foundation. We transition special operators the private sector. So I do a lot of fundraising for that. helping men and women transition because a lot of people retire at 40 and you got a lot of life left in you. So you got you got to pay the mortgage, keep the mouths fed. So I do I do that. I’m trying to get better at golf working.

1:02:21 Brian Rose: What’s the hardest part to transition if you’ve been in the military for 20 years?

1:02:28 Rob O’Neill: The realization that you’re a lot better than you think you are. That what you’ve learned in the military is applicable to normal life.

1:02:37 Brian Rose: Does the military kill creativity to a certain extent? You know, I just I’ve I’ve spoken with people that, you know, that they’ve seen some, you know, special forces guys try to come into like a business environment. And of course, everyone thinks you guys are gods and you can do anything, which, you know, I know is not true, but still. But they said sometimes they were struggling to do certain things that other non-military people would do. I don’t know.

1:03:03 Rob O’Neill: Yeah. One of one of the problems the military has is they have a tendency to say, “This is the way we’ve always done it.” Okay. Which is nonsense. you know, you always got to, you know, it’s it’s some of the best training I’ve ever had is dealing with guys who are younger and who had fresh ideas. So, don’t be afraid of the young guy in the room who has a better idea maybe than you. don’t don’t make him speak up too much, but if there’s something better, you know, always follow your rules. I’m a big believer in safety. Follow your rules, but if a new rule comes, change it. Tell everyone that we changed it and then go that way.

1:03:39 Brian Rose: Yeah, I guess in business you really need to innovate and take risks, but I guess in something like the military there is a tradition of doing it kind of this way and we show you to do it this way.

1:03:49 Rob O’Neill: Yes, they say it’s as bad, right? We mostly want you to do it this way.

1:03:49 Brian Rose: This new reality, this whole working from home type thing, is that going to change the way we have to communicate as well? And I mean, I personally don’t think teams can work remotely as effectively,.

1:03:57 Rob O’Neill: But no, they can’t effectively. You need to be face to face. And I really wish I would have invested in Zoom like in January. no. It’s going to get it’s going to get back to normal right around November 4th.

1:04:15 Brian Rose: Are you expecting that?

1:04:16 Rob O’Neill: This is political. This is all political.

1:04:16 Brian Rose: Isn’t it crazy to watch?

1:04:21 Rob O’Neill: Sometimes Yeah. I mean, they’ll do a lot of these people in power will do anything they can.

1:04:25 Brian Rose: Sometimes it feels like we’re in a bad fiction movie or a really good fiction movie.

1:04:31 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, that too.

1:04:31 Brian Rose: Rob, what do you say to young men when they ask you if they should go into special forces? What do you tell them?

1:04:38 Rob O’Neill: I tell them because I get asked a lot about if you could talk to younger Rob O’Neill, what would you do? And I tell them, well, I first of all, if I had the opportunity, I would get straight A’s and I would get picked for one of the academies. I would learn how to fly jets. So, get an appointment and fly. That’d be cool. And they said, “Well, what if you can’t do I said, “Well, u I would do more pull-ups. Get better at pull-ups.” And then what else? Because I was a basketball player, I would say, “Shoot more free throws.” Because free throws is a great way to sum up life. Free throw is dribble the ball three times, backspin, take your shot, shooting off two fingers. Do you watch the ball? Do you watch the rim?

1:05:21 Rob O’Neill: Because that’s mastering the basics. And if you want to be good in life, master the basics.

1:05:27 Brian Rose: And why flying? just thought that could have been a different thing to do or you.

1:05:27 Rob O’Neill: I remember I remember being jealous of pilots flying over us when I was wet and cold in the in the Pacific Ocean. I’m like, “Man, I wish I was that cockpit.”

1:05:35 Brian Rose: They probably wish they were you.

1:05:40 Rob O’Neill: I don’t know. P Well, I would run into pilots in Virginia Beach, too. And I’d say, “Hey, a Navy pilot. Second coolest job in the Navy.” But no, it was because we ran we run into pilots sometimes in different places and I would mess with the pilots. I’m like, look, we know we know very well there’s no Tom Cruise flying jets, but we got plenty of Charlie Sheen and SEAL Teams.

1:06:07 Brian Rose: That’s pretty funny. couple questions about you. tell me, if you look back on your life, what was the best day of your life and the worst day?

1:06:15 Rob O’Neill: The best day of my life was when I met my wife, Jessica, because she was just so cool. just a really cool attractive No, she’s cool woman. I met her at she hosted me an event for a company. Okay. No. And obviously when my daughters were born, but I got to put Jessica first.

1:06:31 Brian Rose: And what about the worst day?

1:06:37 Rob O’Neill: I don’t know.

1:06:42 Brian Rose: Do you remember bad days in the field or was it just.

1:06:42 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, of course. Yeah. I Yeah. Yeah. I you know there’s Yeah. I mean there’s there’s good and bad. I try not to reflect on the bad. There’s I try to remain positive.

1:06:54 Brian Rose: Do you ever miss being out there and being the.

1:06:54 Rob O’Neill: I miss the guys. I miss the guys. I just I was just texting a guy, a buddy of mine, one of my teammates who owns a few bars in Tucson, Arizona. we used to skydive there. I would go to Tucson probably 11 times a year. We would go down there for a couple weeks time and he own Trident Bar and Grill. Now he’s got four of them. and I was just texting him was like, you know, we’re gonna He’s He was a he was a the biggest Washington Redskins fan I’ve ever met other than myself until the Redskins are no longer allowed to be called the Redskins. So, I told him my wife and I are going to go down there and see him in a couple weeks and we’re just excited. It’s It’s good to see the boys. Just sit around, have a beer, and talk about how handsome we used to be.

1:07:35 Brian Rose: But you don’t miss the work. You did it. You got it out of here.

1:07:35 Rob O’Neill: I miss the boys. That’s it. I miss the boys, right? The work No, the work sucks. We make anything suck.

1:07:40 Brian Rose: I’m sure. And what scares you?

1:07:50 Rob O’Neill: That’s a good question. I don’t know. like I said, I try to stay positive. I think that just the indoctrination. I it sucks that we don’t learn from the past. the what scares me is that people are teaching people that communism is good, which is bad. They read the works of Karl Marx, who never had a job and is telling them how to how to live. Like, it’s a it’s a shame that we need to redo this. It’s a shame that the people don’t haven’t read Night by, what’s his name? Elie Wiesel about concentration camps. the bad stuff that could happen. It scares me because we’re going to repeat it if we don’t. It scares me that there’s a thing called the normalcy bias which if something’s never bad happened to you, but it doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Which is just like the.

1:08:50 Rob O’Neill: South Tower when not only were bosses telling their people to sit down, they were sitting down their own because that tower’s on fire. We’re not everything’s fine. and there are people jumping out of the other tower on fire. That’s not fine. one guy that survived is because of his dog. He was blind and he had a seeing eye dog. And the dog’s a predator and we’re not. We’re we’re sheep. And he was saying, “We’re good.” The dog said, “No, we’re leaving.” And he took him down 80 flights of stairs. Scares me that people don’t don’t believe in evil because it’s real. And just because you don’t think you’re at war doesn’t mean you’re not.

1:09:30 Brian Rose: Yeah. It’s something I think you guys are very good at communicating.

1:09:35 Rob O’Neill: Something Jocko talks about a lot. And when you first hear such an amazing communicator, too. And I’m not kissing his butt just because he can beat me up. He’s really good.

1:09:44 Brian Rose: Yeah. And when you first meet Jocko, when you first start listen to his podcast, you know, he’s talking about evil a lot, you know, and he’s telling you about these bad things that have happened and that could happen. And I think to the average person, it’s it’s intense. And we’re like, well, there’s nothing evil in America. But it’s like it’s important I think for Jocko to remind us and it’s important for him and I guess for you too to just.

1:10:05 Rob O’Neill: Well, yeah. We when we went after Osama bin Laden, we knew we were going to die. We accepted death. And I had one of my guys who’s on the mission. He said, “Hey man, don’t don’t take this the wrong way. I’m going 100% going. I just need to say this out loud. If we know we’re we’re going to die, why are we going?” And I said, “Well, we’re not going after Osama bin Laden for the reward. We’re not going after Osama bin Laden for the fame. We’re going after Osama bin Laden for the single mom who dropped her kids off at elementary school on a Tuesday morning and then 45 minutes later she jumped to her death out of a skyscraper because that was a better alternative than whatever was going on inside at 2500 degrees Fahrenheit. And her last gesture of human decency was holding her skirt down as she killed herself. She’s not supposed to do that. She’s not supposed to be in the fight. We’re supposed to be in the fight. That’s why we’re going. And it’s people like us that, and again, I don’t want credit, but the realization that there is evil.

1:11:06 Rob O’Neill: Out there, and we’re better. We’re better than that. But we have people that will confront it.

1:11:06 Brian Rose: Is America going to get better?

1:11:15 Rob O’Neill: We’re all going to get better. We’re all good. Well, one of the one of the things about it traveling and speaking and I’m convinced I had COVID in January because I shake 5,000 hands a week and I love to hug and I probably had it. people are good. I talk to people all the time and they’re just good. U America especially is not it’s not the people hitting cops in the head with bats that are funded by George Soros. America is the people that start a convoy in San Diego, drive through Arizona and Texas, pick up more people, and they finish up in Florida because they’re helping flood victims or hurricane victims. That’s that’s what we all are. And I’m I’m convinced we’re good. It’s just it’s the nonsense of the 24-hour news cycle, the social media nons. We’re people are good and love is fine and I believe in it.

1:12:06 Brian Rose: Okay. So some normalcy might happen or we still have my a few it’ll happen.

1:12:06 Rob O’Neill: Just turn off Twitter.

1:12:12 Brian Rose: Turn off Twitter. But I mean but this is a real question Rob. I mean like that is it going to get worse for a few years before it gets better? Are we going to have.

1:12:12 Rob O’Neill: No, it’s it’s all going to end on November 4th.

1:12:22 Brian Rose: Okay. Oh, really?

1:12:22 Rob O’Neill: And then it’ll be fine for a few more years. I mean I mean it’s just so it’s so ridiculous. Look at Hillary Clinton. Like will he accept the results? It’s like you didn’t accept the results, Hillary. Just go away. So if it you’ve ruined him.

1:12:36 Brian Rose: If it ends on the fourth though, does it not start up again two and a half years later?

1:12:40 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, it will. I mean, we got to figure every for Congress here in the United States, every day is an election cycle. Like the Congress men and women will work a day and a half and then they’re trying to get reelected. I know.

1:12:52 Brian Rose: And if anything, this digital presence is seeping even more inside of our brains and our kids are growing up with it. So, I’m optimistic, too, but I feel like we need some type of a major mental shift for people to just realize, whoa, wait a second. Like you said, slow it down. Wait a second. We need to now really take a wrap off.

1:13:08 Rob O’Neill: And I would recommend people if you want world peace, learn how to fly fish. Just get on the river, chill out. We’re going to be fine. I had a Vietnam Oh, no, I’m sorry, a World War II vet that I golf with once a year in New Jersey, and I saw him a couple months ago, and I said, “Hey, man. How are things?” and he said, “good. I woke up today. I put both feet on the ground. I picked up the newspaper, which people don’t normally read, and I went to the obituaries. I checked for my name. It wasn’t there. Life is good.”

1:13:37 Brian Rose: Yeah. It’s It’s funny what you say, shooting baskets and fly fishing. I mean, keep it real. We’re not Yeah, that we actually do need more of that.

1:13:50 Rob O’Neill: Yeah, we need more free throws and fly fishing.

1:13:52 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s true. you answered the question about advice to yourself. What’s the best advice you ever received? Could it come from I don’t know, a homeless person or a commander? Ah, that’s good stuff. All right, Rob. Well, thank you so much for the time.

1:14:33 Brian Rose: Thank you for your service. I appreciate you telling us and I appreciate your frankness. You know, you know, a lot. I like I like the fact that you can talk about this in a real way and you know, not make certain things seem untouchable. So, I appreciate that.

1:14:48 Rob O’Neill: My pleasure. This is great. Great talk. Thank you.

1:14:50 Brian Rose: All right. Next time we’ll do it in person. Thank you so much. Of course. Of course. All right, take care. There you go, everybody. There’s Rob. thanks so much for watching. We’ll see you next time on London Real.