Full transcript: Pritam Dutta on London Real
3:24 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Pritam Dutta, the fintech innovator, web3 entrepreneur, and angel investor. You are the founder and CEO of Zoth, a pioneering fintech company leveraging the blockchain to provide global DeFi liquidity and financing solutions to businesses in emerging markets. Zoth brings institutional-grade, fixed-yield RWAs, plus an RWA-backed stablecoin both on-chain. Under your leadership, Zoth has achieved remarkable milestones, originating over $250 million in credit and fixed income products for partners like XDC, Funfair, and Cilo. You personally have been recognized as one of Asia’s top 100 digital leaders and are a passionate advocate for making global finance more fair, accessible, and efficient. Ultimately, your mission is to create a more inclusive financial ecosystem for businesses and communities around the world. Pritam, welcome to London Real in Dubai.
4:41 Pritam Dutta: Thanks, Brian. Glad to be here.
4:44 Brian Rose: We’re excited to have you. I just want to start by saying that Zoth is one of our portfolio companies here at London Real Ventures, the world’s first media-powered investment firm where our mission is to transform the world by investing in cutting-edge web3 and AI companies while giving our partners marketing exposure across the London Real media platforms and academies. We heighten awareness, create customers, and build communities by leveraging our global audience and extensive network. Pritam, we’re super excited to be part of this journey with you. So, let’s jump in. What is Zoth?
5:18 Pritam Dutta: Imagine the whole financial ecosystem today.
5:20 It’s more than $8 trillion the amount of money that moves. $2 trillion of them are fixed income products. If you just look at US strategy, it’s in trillions of dollars, generating 3-4% yield. At Zoth, we bring these products on-chain by building an infrastructure which allows holders of these assets, both on-chain products as well as off-chain products, build what we call a CDP or a leverage token on top, giving them fully defined native utilities. So, imagine anybody holding a real-world asset, generating fixed income products. They can put this as a collateral, mint Z-USD, which is our yield-bearing token, and get additional rewards and at the same time use it across DeFi. So, it brings the barriers because only institutions can buy most of these products, but it allows now details, I would say, indirect access to such assets, but most importantly, creates a more fair and inclusive way to get access to top fixed income products, but at the same time creating more diversity and creating an ecosystem which is much more decentralized.
6:25 Brian Rose: This is so important because right now, if you’re in the DeFi world, if you’re in blockchain, if you own some crypto, you know, when you go to get yields, you know, maybe you go to like one of these platforms like Aave, but you’re only getting yield from other people in DeFi, right? Yep. And when you come to Zoth, you’re tapping in to like these traditional finance markets and you can offer
6:49 People some really interesting attractive yields that normally are only given to people that do like, you know, trade financing on Wall Street. And these things are kind of unheard of to people on DeFi. And so that really gets some impressive numbers. And like you said, you’re pulling in yields from the outside world. You’re not generating yields from thin air, which has hurt DeFi in the past.
7:14 Pritam Dutta: Yep. So, what we believe is that crypto is at the inflection point. It’s where AI was few years ago. See, the crypto ecosystem works like an echo chamber, you generate yield from here, you bring it there, etc. But it’s only so much we can grow the entire crypto ecosystem today is the valuation is less than of Nvidia for it to grow. RW your traditional finance has to come in.
7:38 So, Zoth builds this infrastructure where traditional fixed income products could be leveraged DeFi products built on top of it and give access to a much wider audience across the group globe to these institutional class products. What that does is brings a much wider volume of assets on chain, providing significant access and availability for users. And RWA or real world asset is, you know, it’s the largest sector in crypto. And I believe this sector alone would be bigger than the entire crypto industry put together and be driver of this whole transformation. And that’s what Zoth primarily facilitates and brings to the table.
8:19 Brian Rose: You know, a lot of people said that gaming would be the next billion users. And some people said it’s going to be AI. But I think a lot of people are starting to realize that it very well could be RWA. Now, with the last couple of years, we’ve seen so many different RWA pitches. People are going to tokenize a racehorse and they’re going to tokenize a bottle of wine. I could do this and that. But I see also a lot of failures. But it seems like you pivoted until you found the perfect niche and you guys are dominating that niche and making it successful. Can you tell people about kind of that evolution of RWA and why you think you’re really poised to just really dominate this year in your category?
9:00 Pritam Dutta: So I have been in the crypto space since 2015. I have bought Bitcoin in 2012. And RWs have been around with a lot of promise. It’s basically like a car which never delivers the mileage that is advertised. It’s only now since last year and a half that there has been significant adoption of our real world asset, especially if you look at products like US Treasuries and other products. Why is it so? Because in the crypto space, you know, you either offer very fixed income liquid products, which are easily scalable, or you obviously go for very high yields. The products like US Treasuries, the reason they have scaled so well because they are easily liquid, they can be easily bought on chain, and there has been a whole DeFi ecosystem built around it. Tokenizing assets like properties,
9:46 Real estate, golf, I believe is a far-fetched dream. And it’s very difficult to build a fully DeFi native ecosystem around it. What’s different at Zoth is we have started, we are only, we started with various fixed income assets, and we have both structured as well as unstructured products like trade finance, as well as our fixed income bonds, etc. But what we believe that as of today, the market is mature for bringing highly liquid fixed income product like US Treasuries, money market funds, bonds, etc. on chain, create a whole DeFi ecosystem on top of that, where not only the product bought on chain, but you can create a digital replica of most of these off-chain assets, and create multiple DeFi applications like lending, borrowing, buying, selling payments, and create a full stable coin or stable token-driven architecture and growing the whole market bigger. Now, we have started with fixed income products, and as Zoth, we will gradually grow. But the idea is that this is a sweet spot where we believe there will be an inflection point. And very recently, we launched our stable token ZUSD, which saw over 20 million in sales in a matter of one week. Now, obviously, we tried various options, iterations, how to drive traction, and this was a quick win moment for us because you know where product has hit virality when you don’t really need to push itself on its own.
11:16 And I’m seeing that adoption right now, which makes us believe that we have found that sweet spot where how do you bring assets and integrate them with DeFi and create an ecosystem which basically leverages the real world, I would say, structures, securities, safeguards, and build a DeFi stack on top to create a much wider utility and use case.
11:37 Brian Rose: Tell me more about this stable token, because like you said, you know, it’s fairly recent, and you have massive traction right away. What’s the thought process behind it? How could you explain it to kind of a normal person in finance or even someone in DeFi?
11:53 Pritam Dutta: So, we are still in private beta, and we launched it to only our kind of limited circle as of now. And we have been putting it in testnet over the last six months where we got significant traction from retail. But in simple terms, if I have to explain it to anybody, you have seen giants like Tether, USDT, USDC. What they do, they take capital, give you a stable token and buy an underlying asset, which is a representation of the token that they have given. Now, it could be Bitcoin, etc., but that’s completely controlled by them and managed by them. What Zoth is moving towards is a more decentralized ownership of stable tokens, which means that you don’t rely on Tether, USDT, or USDC to mint it. You have an asset which Zoth recognizes as the right collateral. So, if you own money market funds, if you own US treasury bills, you come to Zoth platform, put it as a collateral, and mint USD on top. So, you get that basic yield that the platform provides or the asset provides, but on top, Zoth had partnered with various players in the DeFi ecosystem to generate additional stack rewards for you.
13:06 Now, this stable token, as of today, we have built a primary ecosystem where users get incentives just to mint it and hold it, but we are slowly building the whole secondary ecosystem of payments, remittances, finances, etc., for it. But what essentially we are doing is we’re decentralizing the minting, the governance. So, basically, any institution, individual with the right assets can mint this stable token, get yields, as well as be part of the whole Zoth ecosystem and basically gain from it. It’s decentralizing profit, decentralizing ownership and minting of stable tokens, which is one of the major, I would say, products in crypto, which are fine, strong product market fit.
13:50 Brian Rose: Does it pay a coupon like a fixed income piece? And is that a fixed rate? Or how does that work?
13:56 Pritam Dutta: So, the underlying asset generates a fixed coupon, for example, the underlying asset is, say, if it’s US treasurables, it’s a fixed coupon of 3-4%.
14:05 We create a stack reward on top where a lot of our partners give additional incentives, which are generally also fixed on top, just for example, to mint and bring it on chain. And yeah, as of now, it’s completely fixed and it is available on private beta to some of our LPs.
14:24 Brian Rose: Okay. And is it specific to credit? So, will it be like a US treasury stable token versus like a trade debt token? Or is it all just kind of one asset type and one risk type?
14:36 Pritam Dutta: It’s only one asset type. As of now, we are only focusing on money market funds, US treasury bills and similar liquid products. In the future, we’ll look at other avenues, for example, trade finance or other products, which have some lock-in or some, what I would call, you know, duration for which they are illiquid. But as of now, liquid instruments, which couldn’t be liquidated any instant, is the underlying asset which generate the yield, making it easy for users to redeem as well as borrow and have built multiple applications on top of it.
15:10 Brian Rose: That’s exciting. All right. So, if I’m Tether, I’m holding dollars and issues, dollar-based stablecoins. If I’m Zoth, I’m holding, say, US treasuries or treasury bills, and I’m issuing treasury-based stable tokens.
15:24 Pritam Dutta: Yes. And in case of Zoth, anybody can come to Zoth platform and issue the Zoth stable token. Zoth is just providing you the platform. So, Zoth is decentralizing the governance and allowing you more usage of your real-world asset, rather than you just holding it and earning 3-4%, you get additional incentive and an additional utilization of it.
15:47 Brian Rose: Okay. So, just decentralizing the whole minting process.
15:51 Wow. Okay. Well, now look, we’ve seen massive players like BlackRock going into this space. I think they had this, it’s called a Biddle change. I think that’s an acronym where we see them tokenizing treasuries. Yeah. I know Franklin Templeton also has a small group that’s been doing some of that as well. Yeah. So, it seems like you’re right on the cutting edge as they are, but it sounds like you’re innovating even ahead of them. Yep. Probably because you’re a smaller player that can move more nimbly. Is that kind of what’s going on here?
16:21 Pritam Dutta: So, yeah. I mean, all of the competition you mentioned are the underlying assets. They bring the products on chain. But a 2-3% yield is sometimes not that attractive to a definitive or an investor. So, what we are doing is building the whole leverage infrastructure on top where those assets could be put as a collateral and that stable token could be minted, generating even more utility and incentives for the definitive cloud. Basically, giving more access, more utility across the ecosystem.
16:53 Brian Rose: And then I can re-stake it or stake it. Yes. And they take the 2-3% or 4-6% or 7-9%. Yeah. And it starts to get really interesting. Really interesting.
17:03 And that’s done with basically leverage on chain that you can only really get on chain. Is that right?
17:09 Pritam Dutta: Yes. Leverage on chain, which currently we can only get on chain.
17:13 Brian Rose: Right. Okay. And that’s super attractive because these institutions and tradify players, they probably have a remit to own Treasuries, but the yields are so unattractive, they’re not interesting. So, this is a very good reason for them to push a little bit and get into DeFi.
17:29 Pritam Dutta: Yeah. And also what I believe is that if you look at the market sentiments with the new dispensation at White House coming in, DeFi is an area where everybody wants to explore. But not everybody is aware of the risk or the challenges that bring in. So, at Zoth, what we are bringing is giving you an easier access to DeFi without really putting your capital, at least at the initial stage, you just put a collateral and put it on chain. Sorry.
17:58 Yeah. You put your collateral as part of the ecosystem, put it on chain. So, you have your collateral, you are still earning yield from it, but at the same time, you have this DeFi native token, which you can use for lending, for sales, for buying Bitcoin or whatever you want to do. When you return that capital, you get your collateral back. But the idea is that now, your asset, which is lying dormant, which is earning two, three, four percent yield, can give you an access to an asset, which is multiple DeFi native use cases.
18:32 Brian Rose: Right. So powerful. I mentioned people like BlackRock and Franklin Templeton. Do you think at some point they’ll try to buy you? Do you think at some point they’ll try to use your protocols?
18:41 Pritam Dutta: Because you are working with one of the largest protocols who have issued more than one and half billion worth of US treasuries and money market products on chain as collateral already. It’s just a matter of time. We’re already working with some of the top financial institutions, helping them basically understand the DeFi ecosystem and how to really leverage distribution around this space.
19:03 Brian Rose: Pretend, what’s your hardest job? I mean, I know you have a background in traditional finance. You worked in London, which probably used to be the most important financial capital in the world. Maybe it’s number two.
19:15 So you know how the city works. You know how these old school bankers work.
19:19 Pritam Dutta: And I used to be one of those bankers. I spent five years on Wall Street, Chicago, and then 10 years in London.
19:24 Brian Rose: Are you so successful at this because you know how to speak their language?
19:28 What is the hard part? Is it having those meetings with TraFi people, or is it just making the tech that makes it a no-brainer, or is it both?
19:37 Pritam Dutta: I think tech is easy, especially at Zort. We have a unique composition of the team. There is a team which me and a couple of players who have very strong TraFi experience, but at the same time, we have a team which is completely DeFi region. They live, breathe crypto.
19:53 So with combination of this team, one of our major USP is tech and product and product-driven marketing. Working with the traditional finance institutions is the hard part, not just for us, for any crypto company. But where we have been able to make progress is because of our background. We understand both worlds. We are able to speak their language, explain to them the risk, the challenges, the issues. And look, crypto, I believe, is right now in a space where everybody wants to dip their toes and try to figure out what’s happening. So that’s a unique opportunity for us. But yeah, I believe to be successful in RWA, you need to speak the language of both worlds. And that’s what at Zort we are able to do because of the experience me and the team has in space.
20:37 Brian Rose: Is there any specific region or financial center you’ve had more success in? Is it Singapore or London or New York?
20:45 Pritam Dutta: We had very good exposure in Singapore, Hong Kong and Dubai also. We had regulated fund structure based in Luxembourg and Cayman. And I believe the most, US is as a market we haven’t ventured out that much yet, but I believe that’s a potential in the future. But yeah, the most success has been in pretty much all major global financial centers.
21:10 Brian Rose: Okay, you referenced a brand new regime in America. And I would love to get thoughts on that. We’ve obviously got a new president. That president has his own DeFi protocol called World Financial, World Liberty Financial. His sons are involved in that.
21:27 And we have a new SEC chairman. We have a lot of his cabinet involved in finance, Howard Lutnick, who’s the commerce secretary, also runs BCG, used to be called Kenner Fitzgerald when I work on Wall Street. And they do the custody for Tether. I’m sure you know this. Also, Bobby Kennedy, who’s going to make America healthy again, put all of his savings in Bitcoin two years ago when he got orange-pilled at one of the conferences. And so I always tell people, I don’t think it’s just lip service with Trump because he’s got a whole team that are hugely invested in crypto.
21:56 David Sachs from Andreessen Horowitz is now his crypto and AI advisor, and he’s deep into this space. So I don’t think it’s going to be lip service. And again, if they want to prosecute people in DeFi, he’s going to have to start with his own family. And so tell me, what do you think is going to happen when you saw him speaking at the Bitcoin conference? Does this make you super bullish on America or are you still also cautious?
22:22 Pritam Dutta: So I have lived in America. I have lived in San Francisco, Boston, and I did a program in Stanford. So there are a lot of good things in America. And the best part of the country still is the beacon of innovation. I think especially in the crypto and part in the AI space, due to various reasons and obviously how the market behaves, the regulations have been stiffling. But what we need to understand is that the securities laws have been framed in 1930s, 1920s. DeFi is just, you know, the entire Bitcoin ecosystem is just 10 years old.
23:04 So the laws haven’t kept speed with the innovation that’s happening. And that’s always the case. It’s just that in other sectors, US always allowed it to happen. And in crypto, it always have been enforcement and trying to stifle innovation till the past regime. I think what changes with Trump is that ability to kind of innovate, ability to risk, take risk, understand what are the bad actors, the good actors, because at the end, it’s a technology.
23:35 And there would always be some good actors and bad actors like you had with the e-commerce days when they started. It’s just about having more progressive regulations and allowing innovation to foster. And I think I’m very hopeful with the new administration. I have been always long on America and I’m just, you know, double bullish on America now.
23:57 Brian Rose: Yeah, you’ve lived there. You know, there’s this culture of entrepreneurship and innovation that’s unlike any place else. You know, you’re taught maybe from the way the geography is or the way the country grew up. Both of my great grandfathers came over there on a boat and they basically said, go West if you want to build a business and we’re going to leave you alone.
24:20 You can have free land. Go for it. And I think that spirit is still there where it’s like, prove yourself, go do it. So I agree. Once you take the reins off, which is what the last four years have been, I do bet on the US, which is great. It’s been frustrating to watch them try to apply these antiquated security laws to crypto. You know, when I first, we went all into crypto four years ago and I heard that the SEC chairman had taught a course at MIT.
24:47 I took courses at the MIT Sloan School of Management. I got a degree. So I thought, oh, this is amazing. So I took his course on YouTube 24 hours long. It was public.
24:57 And Gary Gensler really understands cryptography. He really understands crypto. And back then in his lectures, he used to say that, you know, Ethereum wasn’t a security. And yet when he got elected, somebody else came out. And so we saw that regulation by enforcement and all that stuff.
25:13 So I’m so glad we had this new regime with a businessman in place. And he’s already talking about just letting the reins go and letting the innovation happen. So I’m super bullish. I guess we have to watch and see at this point.
25:28 Pritam Dutta: Right. See, I believe that crypto actually appends a lot of existing interest. If you look at stablecoin space, stablecoins are eating some of the existing payment processors for lunch.
25:40 You know, why do I need a bank if I can store all my money in stables? Why do I need a payment processor or a lending when I can put a collateral and get things done? So the on-chain economy is a threat. Threat to many established players. I did during some of my past roles, I worked at an Hauser-Busch and we build a lending business across Nigeria, South Africa and Latin America. The money lender used to rip people, means some of the card processors charge two, two and a half percent per ton of action.
26:12 Crypto changes that. Now, any innovation will always face resistance. And I believe this is the phase where, you know, you first ignore it, then you call it a scam and then you kind of demean it. And finally we win. And I believe crypto has finally entered the phase where all the challenges the sector faces. Now it’s slowly building that streak where you actually are seeing companies with strong product market, fair to winners. You know, the recent acquisition of Bridge by Stripe is a great example of a billion dollar acquisition because, you know, you have the world’s largest payments company acquiring a two year old crypto startup.
26:52 So, yeah, I believe the sector is evolving and it’s like any other sector. It’s a journey.
26:57 Brian Rose: Yeah, now that’s a very forward thinking company. I actually had one of the Irish brothers on basically a London Real show back in 2013 when they had just started Stripe. And they were really looking to innovate and bring all of their tech know-how. And they basically beat the incumbents at their own game. So I would expect those guys to think forward and it’s nice. But at the same time, there’s other issues like Trump’s going in and we think he’s going to do all these great things. But people talk about the resistance of new ideas. Some people call that the deep state in finance. I’m curious, is there like a deep state of finance that wants to resist these trends because the banking industry is powerful. It’s extremely profitable. You know, some people argue that J.B. Morgan and BlackRock are extensions of the US government. And so I’m wondering, how far can you go if you’re trying to make banks obsolete, if you’re trying to put payments on chain and even anonymous?
27:54 When do you think there’ll be the pushback?
27:57 Pritam Dutta: So I think pushback is already happening. And, you know, that’s why you see so much challenges across, you know, that whole de-banking that happened in the US or various other areas. But what I believe is, for example, Tethered owns more US Treasuries today than Germany. It’s one of the largest buyers of US Treasuries. So look, there is a flip side.
28:21 At one end, you have a player which is actually helping you in dollarization. And at the same time, obviously, if payments move on chain, the fees and some of the entrance players lose out on a lot of revenues. So I believe it’s a chicken and egg. The deep state, as you call, is impacted and is trying to fight hard. But I think if you see with BlackRock, Biddle and a couple of others, they’re also now feeling that, you know, it’s time we explode the space, get into it, see what we can do, what business models can be made. And I believe the space will grow big enough. Look, the entire crypto sector is less than the valuation of Nvidia. So imagine the space we have to go means at 30 trillion will be less than maybe the top 10 in NASDAQ, 1020 in NASDAQ. So we have a long way to go. And I believe there is enough size of the pie is big enough or a lot of people.
29:15 Brian Rose: Yeah, I agree. I think they say in tech, someone has to be 10 times better of a product in order to usurp the incumbent.
29:23 But like you said, I mean, look, BlackRock, biggest financial institution in the world, is pushing the Bitcoin ETF. Yeah, you know, my dad is one of the smartest guys I’ve ever met. He’s but he’s 80 years old, master’s in electrical engineering from Caltech. But he won’t touch Bitcoin with a 10 foot pole because he’s in that one Warren Buffett mentality. Meanwhile, Larry Fink is sneaking Bitcoin into his pension fund over here. So we’ve already seen, you know, what you would think would be the deep financial state breaking their own rules, and they’re putting treasuries on chain and Franklin Templeton is doing it as well. So I think you’re right. I think we’re actually seeing people adopt this. And with Trump in office, I think more people are going to and it’s going to be interesting to see what we see over the next like year or two.
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31:05 Brian Rose: What is your plan for 2025? What are the products you want to innovate? Are you trying to take your Sable token onto mainnet? And how is that whole plan? How do you plan to expand this year?
31:18 Pritam Dutta: So, 2025 is really most about expansion for us. We believe that Zort and our ecosystem of products have found the initial product market fade, some early customers, early ecosystem players. And we always have the one difference at Zort that we have been driving is the whole community angle. We have over a million plus community. We have close to 2 million users on our testnet.
31:44 So, growing the whole community, basically scaling the products, especially in the DeFi space, building more use cases around it. So, today, for example, ZUHD, our stable token is sitting on a 20 million TVL. How do we grow it to 200 million? What are the things we need to do? How we kind of get the community involved? How we can build more ecosystem around it?
32:06 Can ZUHD be used for payments? Can it be used for lending, borrowing, and build those use cases around it? A key moment would be where it’s still a pre-TG company. And one of our key focus would be to build a whole TG ecosystem because that drives the underlying value of the whole Zort ecosystem. How do we kind of get there and bring a much more decentralized ownership of things?
32:31 So, multiple steps are there. So, quarter one would primarily be all about scaling, doing our token generation event of the underlying governance ecosystem, and then really scaling the products, drive revenue, because every ZUHD minted is basically a revenue back to the Zort ecosystem and scale that across various products and services.
32:52 Brian Rose: Now, the holders of your stable tokens and your soon-to-be-issued Zort token, those are retail. Those are institutions. And I’m just curious, how do you find more of those users? And then on the other side, you have maybe your more B2B play where you’re onboarding more financial institutions. So, I’m wondering, is that how you look at it?
33:13 Pritam Dutta: Yeah. So, we have built a detailed community primarily across the Zort ecosystem who believe in this idea of decentralization. And, you know, it’s like having that following of how many people like the whole idea of breaking barriers that we at Zort are doing. So, as of now, we have testnet access to primarily retail.
33:33 But the idea is that ZUHD currently has primarily definitive users, which are institutions. We are scaling into retail slowly, and it will be more time towards our TGE when we have much wider incentive and reward mechanism for users to hold Zort token, and basically also get access to ZUHD. And as we scale in 2025, then find out more retail and institutional use cases for ZUHD and build from there. On the institutional side, we have most of our fixed income products, which are sold, are primarily sold in KYC to institutions. And, you know, that scales on its own. It’s very similar to, you know, products like Ondo, Aave, et cetera. The idea is to have two businesses. The volumes comes from institutions. The user base drives adoption.
34:24 Brian Rose: Okay. Right. So, it’s kind of a different version of Aave. We got borrowers and lenders want that extra yield, want it on chain.
34:33 You’re just providing something outside of the ecosystem, something from TradFi, something also sometimes more interesting as well. Now, you mentioned fixed income products. We mentioned treasury securities. You also do other different types of fixed income, trade finance, or anything else that has different types of yields or things that people aren’t ready for.
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35:54 Pritam Dutta: Yeah. So we have trade finance. We started actually with trade finance product where we basically offer it to accredited and investors, giving them a much higher alpha that’s not available to retail as of now. And we intend to keep it because it’s a more sophisticated product. But the more liquid products that we have, which is primarily treasury bills and other fixed income products or ZUSD, which is on top, these are like we are rolling out to institutions and retail. So we have created a categorization of products serving, I would say, accredited institutional investors, which primarily goes into the B2B route. And at the same time, building an infrastructure which sells to retail users, especially products which can be easily scaled and have a strong secondary market in place.
36:46 Brian Rose: Okay. Talk to me about the token. What utility do you envision for this?
36:51 And how do you see it being part of your ecosystem? Obviously, your ecosystem currently works without it. Although, I don’t know, maybe you have a reward system with that token. And I ask this to a lot of founders. I mean, the token really gives you lots of options, doesn’t it? It gives you lots of things you can do to reward and to really get people interested in your ecosystem.
37:11 So what is your plan? Is it called Zoth?
37:14 Pritam Dutta: Yeah, means we are working towards it. See, the idea is that at the end, Zoth is a decentralized, see us as decentralized rather. Or imagine, you know, you are part of a group, which basically is minting the new stable token for the crypto ecosystem. So Zoth token is the center of everything that we do.
37:39 Every stable token that gets minted, the revenues generated goes into burning our underlying governance token. So basically creating an inflationary supply. Most importantly, it allows governance. So we have the right assets, the right mechanism to have users on boards taking and rewards to create a 360 degree ecosystem where users are both incentivized to be part of the governance. The token gets inflationary mechanisms by the mode USD that gets minted and the reward mechanism. So create that whole flywheel of reward, incentivization and inflation is central to the Zoth token.
38:21 Brian Rose: Okay. And the sooner you roll that out, the better you’re thinking, you know.
38:27 Pritam Dutta: Yeah, it’s better. Obviously, it’s better at scale. Our idea is to basically roll it out over the next few months or quarters. And because that helps us scale, that helps us build a narrative and also kind of engage with the million plus community that we have, giving them a say in the whole Zoth ecosystem, because that’s the vision that we primarily are driving.
38:53 Brian Rose: Okay. Talk to me about competition. I mean, you mentioned some slightly different business models like Ave and Ando, but for you, what’s the competition like?
39:04 Pritam Dutta: So our competition would be companies like Ando Finance or recently launched usual money or Enzen Finance, primarily similar stable tokens backed by real world assets. And yeah, all of them obviously started before us, have achieved different levels of success.
39:21 And yeah, we believe Zoth is on a similar or better trajectory.
39:25 Brian Rose: Well, with slightly different tech and slightly different offerings.
39:29 Pritam Dutta: Offerings, yeah. But I believe the market is quite big. I think the biggest difference for us is we are not just bringing on-chain products and creating utility on top of it. We are also bringing the off-chain ecosystem because see, if you look at most of our competitors, they are operating within the DeFi ecosystem, which has its own limits. But at what Zoth, we act as a bridge between by allowing even assets which are not tokenized, which are, you know, just lying with a broker, with a custodian, putting it part of our collateral pool and building a DeFi native utility on top. That’s something which nobody else is doing.
40:06 It allows us access to much wider ecosystem and build multiple DeFi products, which can be scaled globally.
40:12 Brian Rose: And you want people to use your protocols and come in and start minting your stable tokens on their assets. You want it to be just a completely decentralized. It’s like decentralized data, as I said. Yeah, it’s a great example. And it doesn’t really exist right now, especially at that institutional level. No. Okay. It’s quite a vision. And again, to be on the same caliber as Ando, I mean, they’re a multi-billion dollar protocol, right? There’s worse competition to have. Yep.
40:41 Right. What do you think 25 is going to be like from a crypto standpoint? And how does that affect your market? If at all, you know, does Bitcoin doubling, does RWA becoming the narrative change your business?
40:57 Pritam Dutta: See, crypto is driven by sentiments and narratives. And I think for Zoth, you know, say the market is quite big. I believe that we have some unique USP. There is Zondo or there are multiple other players that are available in the market. But there is enough space for everybody. And most importantly, the unique partnerships and modes that we have built with traditional finance, as well as our proprietary stack rewards or our collateralization engine is quite powerful. So I believe that the overall rise in crypto ecosystem will just give more impetus to companies like Zoth, help them grow, help them scale. And, you know, bull market is good for everybody. And Zoth products typically act as a hedge during bull market.
41:51 And also a safe avenue in bear markets.
41:54 Brian Rose: Right. Because you’re bringing that outside yield into the ecosystem. Yep. Yeah. We all remember the bull market yields from 21. And then we remember the bear market yields. Exactly. It crashed down. Yeah. How do you build the team at Zoth?
42:09 Pritam Dutta: So Zoth was started by me and my co-founder. We both used to work together and Hauser-Busch. We built a FinTech business together. And we were fascinated by the idea of stable token and the revolution that they are bringing. We saw the impact that was creating in emerging markets. And we just got started. You know, as we left our jobs, it was early 2023, the FTX crisis was going on. So it was a peak of bear market. You know, there was no investor, no VC investing in anything remotely linked to crypto. But we really believe that, you know, this is going to be a foundational piece of the way finance moves in the future because I have built multiple successful businesses I had offered at that point to start another FinTech business. But my idea was that look, you know, as an entrepreneur, your risks are capped.
43:02 You can only lose this much. But why get into an industry where, you know, the upside is not visible. So let it take that big risk. Let it take that opportunity, be the Amazon of crypto, be the PayPal of crypto. And we try to do that because what’s the point of building another FinTech company? And we both took the plunge at the worst time of the crypto market. And here we are.
43:28 Brian Rose: And what’s that journey been like? How many employees do you have? Where are you based? How do you structure this whole thing?
43:37 Pritam Dutta: So the team is pretty much spread across the globe. We have some of our key partners based out of New York, Dubai, I’m based in mostly between Dubai and Singapore. The team, the tech team is spread between Singapore, India, and we have a marketing team primarily spread in Dubai and Singapore. It’s a 30 people team as of now.
43:59 Brian Rose: And do you try to keep costs low? How do you manage a team like that?
44:04 Pritam Dutta: So we are a venture backed company, but we have kept our cost significantly low. The idea is to hit a strong PMF.
44:12 We have started generating revenues and kind of scale the business from there.
44:18 Brian Rose: Okay, nice. And so TGE and that kind of a way you go.
44:22 Pritam Dutta: Yeah, if that’s successful and you scale the products, then from there, it’s up and up and up and up and up.
44:30 Brian Rose: You guys have coined a term called RWA-FI. I’ve never heard this before. Can you explain what that means?
44:38 Pritam Dutta: So RWA-FI means bringing real scalable financial ecosystem of RWAs. People have been talking about RWA, but RWA means what? RW means tokenizing, but has tokenization really succeeded?
44:51 I don’t think so. It’s succeeded in pockets. So what is RWFI? RWFI is looking RWAs on a new paradigm, looking it from a DeFi lens, bringing the DeFi infrastructure on top of RWAs. So what Athena did, what Aave did, how can we build that on top of RWAs? How can we create an efficient financial infrastructure where billions of capital moves with RWAs at the heart of it?
45:20 That’s RWFI, which is permissionless, DeFi native and available across the globe. Not the current structures that we have, which are guarded, institutional, and only few people have access to it.
45:32 Brian Rose: All right. So it’s a real emphasis on the five part of the RWA. The financial inclusion.
45:37 Okay. And by focusing on that, that’s why you’re going to lead this category. Yep. You know, RWAs have been interesting. Again, like you said, people have been talking about it for a long time.
45:46 And if I had a dollar for every RWA pitch, you know, that I’ve seen, and they’re just usually dreams, you know, dreams or one off cases, or, you know, like I said, a tokenized racehorse, and then the one bottle of wine and the one piece of art. And you’re like, okay, but, and they have the system and it works, but you’re like, yeah, but is this really going to happen? Or you did one building and you’re like, okay, but I don’t see how you’re going to scale this.
46:10 And so unfortunately, a lot of things in crypto, they build a product first before they build the demand. And we saw this over and over again. It seems like this is different. And it feels like if there was a DeFi summer of 2020, is this going to be the RWA summer, you believe?
46:28 Pritam Dutta: So I believe there is still a lot of, you know, gas in the RWA ecosystem, because I believe RWAs have arrived, but they have arrived for products which are liquid in nature, which have utility and which can be bought DeFi native. So I believe, yes, this year would be one of the biggest year for RWAs, but only a certain sector because, you know, typically crypto people have a mindset that RWAs is just a sub sector, but I have to explain them.
46:57 Look, no, it’s a 10 times bigger sector than the entire 100 times bigger sector than the entire crypto industry. What you are seeing is a small miniscule portion of it, the entire RWA market cap in smaller than what a hedge fund does in new based out of New York in two days. So let’s get real. We have not seen anything. So how do you bring this two together?
47:21 And I believe that core financial product with strong market standards, utility and the DeFi stack on top are the future of RWAs. And there will be step by step, you know, for example, products like real estate wine would also get tokenized, but there is no buyers for it because, you know, there is no price mechanism. They can’t be put as a collateral. It’s very complicated to even bring them on chain. So it’s going to take some time. But 2025 would be a year where high quality financial assets which have local price, global price primitives have multiple collateral utility would come on chain and would be very successful. Like you equities like fixed income products and it’s time, you know, they will also skill pick.
48:08 Brian Rose: Yeah, I joked earlier about, you know, being bought out by BlackRock. And of course, that’s an option. I’m curious. You’re also Web3 protocol. And, you know, you’re decentralized. So when you think about exits, is there a potential buyout exit or is this always going to be about the community and its scaling?
48:28 Pritam Dutta: So, see, community is a big part of it. But what I am seeing in this space is a significant opportunity with financial institutions coming in. I believe that like 2025 you will see buyouts and exits in the RWA space because every banker I speak to is very interested about crypto. They just don’t know what to do. And I think with the right regime in place, they’re like, okay, let’s just dip a foot in it and try it out. Now, what is the easiest way to try it out?
49:03 Buy a Web3 company, let them do what they’re doing or understand it. So I do believe there will be a lot of M&A and acquisition in this space. And, you know, that’s what’s happening. And, you know, not just between a financial sector and RWA companies, but also within various players in this sector, there is a lot of M&A and exit opportunity. And yeah, for Zoth, I’m building Zoth with a vision that we will be the largest player in this in the RWA space.
49:32 And yeah, and then we will see what’s next.
49:35 Brian Rose: Or the institutions all start using Zoth. Yes. And then they just use your rails and it’s like a payment platform, but it’s an issuance platform. Yeah.
49:45 Okay.
49:45 Pritam Dutta: Yeah. And most importantly, also, we are already seeing institutional traction. We have actually one of the few Fortune 500 clients on board. We did this and we did some PRs also with them and more are coming. So it has started and we are seeing it already happening.
50:00 Brian Rose: Will you stick to the finance aspect or is there any chance that you’ll go back into the real estate sector? You know, we saw a big announcement yesterday where Mantra, one of the RWA chains has announced a billion dollar tokenization with the Mac, the property developer here who just met with Trump at Mar-a-Lago a couple of days ago. You know, is this ultimately on the roadmap where you go into the real estate market? You want to leave it alone for a while because it’s not yet mature? What are your thoughts there?
50:29 Pritam Dutta: I believe it’s not mature. You can tokenize anything, but you need to find buyers for it. So I believe we as Zoth will focus on the financial instruments. It’s a significant market and significant play there. And that’s where we want to focus.
50:44 Brian Rose: Okay. So focus on that for now. Yeah. Grow the team, grow the community, grow the institutions. Yes. And just stay in that lane.
50:51 Pritam Dutta: Stay in that lane. Yeah. Yeah. That lane is bigger than anything else as of now. The biggest opportunity right now.
50:58 Brian Rose: Yeah. Yeah. And again, when, you know, when you originally came and pitched to us, I really noticed that you guys were staying in your lane. You had focused on this micro niche. You knew it really well. You were producing results and yields and it was clearly value add.
51:15 And again, you were already running numbers even before you had the stable token pop. And it was like, okay, these guys have figured out what to do. And again, you know, you’re doing something that has a demand, that has the liquidity, that has the upside, that has already the institutional buyers. Yeah. You’re not trying to convince someone that it’s a great thing to do to buy this tiny piece of tokenized real estate. These people, they live and breathe fixed income.
51:40 You’re just providing a better way.
51:42 Pritam Dutta: I’m just providing a better way. Imagine you are an institution, corporate, every corporate fortune 500 corporate in the world, holds US treasury bills, money market for their cash needs, for their overnight cash needs. All of them are my customers. For them, it’s the easiest option to earn a stacked reward because they are not risking their capital. They’re just earning an additional delta on top.
52:08 Every single company worth 50 million to a hundred million dollars has a way to manage treasury. So all of them are my potential customer. So for me, the market education part is lower. Yes, there is a defy angle to it. And hence we have, we are focusing on the low hanging fruits.
52:28 We are focusing on crypto institutions, banks who are interested to start with, but I believe every single company is a potential customer. Anybody who holds treasury, anybody who holds cash is a potential customer of Zoth. For any other sector, say for real estate, you need to explain the concept, everything. And for some reason, I personally believe that I can’t relate to the fact that I’m okay with buying one square feet of a home. Mine’s, you know, okay, I learned yield, but that’s locked and I can earn better yield in equity. I can get better yield in a bond or, you know, private credit.
53:05 Why would I do that? So I believe that as a business, it’s important to focus in the initial years, get traction and focus on things which can be scaled easily, especially in the space like crypto where narratives and you know, there’s a lot of innovation going on. You don’t want to introduce too many variables. So for us, the go-to market is very clear. It’s a product innovation that we are focusing on and we want to stick to that, scale it to a billion dollar company, and then look at what else we can do.
53:37 Brian Rose: Keep it simple. Maybe tokenize a rock in mass, but not now. Okay. All right. So keep it simple, kind of stay in your lane and not try to do too many things at once. And you’re right. If anybody wants to dip their toe into crypto and you know every financial institution is thinking about it now, especially when they see what BlackRock is doing, they can do it easily, right? They can take a tiny part of their treasury and instead of doing what they normally would do and buy a T bill, they can go ahead and do that on your platform, get a little extra yield and realize that guess what? It doesn’t blow up.
54:07 It doesn’t blow up. Yeah, it doesn’t blow up. I get it back. I get a little extra yield. This blockchain thing’s kind of cool. Maybe I can do a little more. Maybe I can do a little more.
54:15 A little more. And it’s cheaper than buying a web free company or trying to figure it out so they can try it. They can try it. Okay. And that’s your message to all those players out there. Come and try it.
54:24 Come and try it. Okay. First one’s free, as they say. What do you think is going to happen in this crypto bull run? You said you bought Bitcoin back in 12, you said?
54:35 Pritam Dutta: 2012.
54:36 Brian Rose: That’s pretty OG. So you’ve seen four cycles, right? What can you tell us about this cycle? The one that everyone thinks is always going to be a super cycle?
54:49 Pritam Dutta: So I have seen multiple cycles starting from 2012. What’s different about this means I haven’t sold my Bitcoin till today. And Ethereum, I am long on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Solana. For me, it’s not about the, you know, I believe I’m here for the long run. And especially about this cycle, there are, see, every cycle has multiple conditions. The biggest driver of this cycle is a shift in mindset. I’m hearing this in 2012. Institutions will come. Institutions will come.
55:23 Institutions have finally come. There are ETFs now. There is retail people buying. The size of the market is increasing. You have a positive policy change now. Yes, if you take a look in case of Europe and my car, you know, it’s over-regulated and skilling innovation. But look at, you know, possibly US, it’s going to be much more friendlier. And it need not be just pockets in Dubai, Hong Kong and Singapore where you drive the innovation. You have now the access to the biggest market in the world, the United States.
55:55 And we are hearing news that China is also opening up. You know, we are seeing a lot of positive news from India. So I believe it’s the right inflection point where multiple things are play. You have a positive government, which is looking at the whole sector positively. You have the right market forces. The crypto is becoming attractive. I judge whether a bull market has come when the full page ideas of newspaper happen of crypto company. That started happening. And most importantly, there is excitement in the public again in terms of buying, holding crypto assets. So I believe, yes, the cycle is here. But every bull cycle builds bad actors. I think for especially for retail investors, I think it is very important to be cautious about who are the tourists and who are the builders. A lot of people burn because, you know, it’s a fad, it’s a new thing, but they don’t realize the difference between the tourists and the builders. My bet has been every time I had bet on a builder, I kept I didn’t sell my soul when FTX happened. It was at its lowest. I just bought more because, you know, Solana is a brilliant community. And, you know, it’s where it is. It is and possibly I’ll not sell.
57:12 Maybe when, you know, we’ll see how things shape up. But focus on the builders, focus on people who have been in this space for some time and who are not tourists. I believe, you know, the financial gain is just I would say the result of it and not that, you know, like individuals will get. But I think most important is focus on the right people. Find the different shade between the tourists and the builders and focus on them.
57:40 Brian Rose: Okay. I got three questions for you.
57:42 How long does the bull market last? Where does Bitcoin get to? And what does the total market cap get to? Right around three and a half trillion right now.
57:54 Pritam Dutta: So here is my predictions and, you know, let’s we can meet. I believe end of this cycle, we would be at least a seven to eight million trillion market cap, which I am predicting anywhere between quarter two of 2026. 18 month run from here after it’s already been running for a year.
58:15 Yeah. Yes. And I believe that Bitcoin would be at around easily 250 K plus. I do see that some other digital assets would also, you know, go up. But, you know, just it’s not an endorsement, but I strongly believe that a fundamental for some of the stronger digital assets are kind of coming. And, yeah, I believe it will be an 18 month cycle with at least a 250 K Bitcoin price and at least doubling of that total market cap of the digital asset industry.
58:48 Brian Rose: Okay. Very bullish. Yep. And Q2 next year. Interesting. And what network are you guys going to launch on?
58:55 Pritam Dutta: We are multi-chain. We are our products. That’s the fundamental aspect of decentralization. We have built on Ethereum, which is obviously EVM, but then we have kind of branched across various other L2s. We’re also exploring chains like Solana, Cardano. The idea is for ZOSG to be available everywhere. Anybody in crypto can buy it easily through DEXs, through chains. And yeah, we are multi-chain.
59:24 Brian Rose: Okay. You talk about builders and tourists and bad actors.
59:28 What worries you about this cycle and what excites you about this cycle? We’ve obviously seen meme coins really explode. I don’t think anyone saw that coming 12 months ago. We’ve seen AI as a narrative now morph into AI agents and that’s becoming a thing. We’ve heard of this thing called DeSci, which I’m starting to little bits of obviously in DeFi, the restaking thing was big. It’s cooled off a little bit. What worries you as like the next FTX and what kind of excites you just from a personal perspective?
1:00:06 Pritam Dutta: So I believe AI is overhyped. There is a lot happening in this space. We need to choose our bets wisely. DeFi had a difficult time in last few years. I think the time for DeFi has come. RWA would be one of the biggest sectors of this space, not because I’m in this sector, but I generally have also personally long positions in this space because some companies I do see driving real traction and scale and overall infrastructure.
1:00:38 So my bets would be DeFi, RWA as sectors and some specific. I’m quite bullish on infrastructure companies and so a combination of these three.
1:00:51 Brian Rose: What don’t you like? What do you think about memes?
1:00:56 Pritam Dutta: I have not invested in meme coins. I believe that I don’t think they will be that big in 2025 and people will burn more and basically put the whole sector in a bad shape. So just do your own research. I’m personally staying away from memes and overall I believe that as with the bull sector, centralized exchanges bring their own risk. So not your keys, not your coins.
1:01:31 Brian Rose: Well, let’s just quickly review the bad actors from 22 and 23 were centralized exchanges, some DeFi protocols like Terra Luna, some finance institutions like Celsius. Are we going to see those same bad actors come in or will they be different ones or can you even foresee?
1:01:51 Pritam Dutta: I believe the meme space will see some big bad actors. When something is too good to be true, there’s something wrong.
1:01:59 Brian Rose: But that doesn’t have the scale to take the whole industry down like an FTX or Luna would or could it?
1:02:06 Pritam Dutta: Depends on how big it gets.
1:02:08 Brian Rose: Do you think we’ll see any more centralized type of institution like those bring us down? Will there be a future exchange fail? It feels like no one ever learns that lesson. I mean, there haven’t. I even look at Wall Street. It’s an institution that’s been failing for a hundred years. Silicon Valley back. Like all these came close where people never get it. People never get it.
1:02:36 Pritam Dutta: Look, there are risks obviously associated with it. I do believe however, like in our limited interactions with many centralized exchanges, they have cleaned up a lot of their acts. But you really can’t predict. So, not your keys, not your coins. So always hedge your bets. So I always keep my digital assets in either a ledger or in a safe and some in obviously centralized exchanges because it’s easier to trade, et cetera.
1:03:06 Brian Rose: Okay. Five years from now, 2030, it’s the beginning of the next bull market. What does ZAF look like?
1:03:14 Pritam Dutta: ZAF is one of the top five companies in crypto, basically driving ZUSD is one of the largest tokens, possibly bigger or similar sizes.
1:03:25 Brian Rose: And 20 years from now, what does ZAF look like? What does the space look like? And what are you doing in the space?
1:03:35 Pritam Dutta: So 20 years from now, possibly. So I always wanted to spend some time and especially towards cancer research. So that’s an area that is near what I’m quite passionate about. So I really want to contribute actively in this space. So 20 years from now, I definitely see myself specifically working actively. One of my dreams is to build a cancer hospital in southern part of India, where there is a lot of sudden epidemic of cancer. And I have lost many friends to that. That’s an area I really want to do research.
1:04:17 But wider in terms of crypto space or ZOTH in particular, I believe that 20 years from now, we would possibly see ZOTH as one of the largest financial institutions. I believe banking would be obsolete. There would be very few people actually holding money as we see today. There will be more one chain and ZOTH would be the digital bank. One of the largest digit is bank word. I don’t think a bank word would exist anymore. That’s the pivotal role of a company like ZOTH would play. And possibly I would be more focused on giving back. That’s what I really want to do.
1:04:56 Brian Rose: I love that. I love what you said about banking. I’ve got two boys are seven and eight. And the other day, the word came up and they said, Daddy, what’s a bank?
1:05:07 You know, and it’s interesting, maybe a seven, eight year old wouldn’t know. But when I was that age, I knew what a bank was. That’s where I went with mommy. And they had the really expensive marble and the really well-dressed people. I wonder who was paying for that. We were.
1:05:21 And like it was this institution you would go, you couldn’t talk too loud, you know, and you would fill out the forms. But these guys were like, what’s a bank? They probably never will know what a bank is. What a bank? Very possibly.
1:05:32 It comes to what you want to do with cancer. I know you’ve lost some close people to that. If you think that the blockchain will end up helping accelerate that industry, obviously we’re seeing a lot of these decide plays or science decentralized. Do you think that your work will ultimately be on the blockchain in that sense?
1:05:55 Pritam Dutta: It would be because, for example, you know, the whole angle of charity, getting people towards cause is one of the great things which crypto has been seen. It’s like that cult.
1:06:08 You know, sometimes if you look at the best performing companies, not just in crypto, but in real world is where people have formed cults. People, they believe in the mission, you know, and I think that’s what crypto does. Well, I believe that there are a few fundamental problems in this world. And, you know, it’s like cancer really kind of take people, really great people away from this world before even they can contribute productively. And I believe a right mission driven ecosystem on blockchain cannot just drive help on research, funding, as well as really looking at some of the fundamental challenges that these areas have. A great example have been recently there was a father who posted about a rare disease. His child has, he created a mean coin and, you know, I think he got close to around one and a half million in matter of hours. So just a great example that, you know, how you can drive people towards a mission through crypto. And I believe my work in crypto would, I would really want it to contribute to somebody, something just bigger than profits to kind of really help people in solving some of the biggest challenges in this space.
1:07:22 Brian Rose: Excellent. Yeah. If one thing meme coins have taught us, communities are real. They want to be together. They want to, you know, be part of something. And like we’ve seen that and we never really saw that before. Now we see meme stocks, which, you know, 10 years ago in finance, nobody would have comprehended what that is, but it’s a thing. And so, yeah, I agree. I think we’ve learned a lot about communities from web three and web three has some of the best communities out there. They scale better. They punch above their weight more than any other community. I’d say. Yeah. Um, how can people get involved with Zoth? If you’re an institution, how can you dip your toe in? If you’re an institution looking for yield, how can they dip their toe in? And then if you’re a retail player, how can, can we get involved?
1:08:10 Pritam Dutta: So if you are a retail player, uh, you know, we have a very active community. We can be part of the ecosystem. We are, have our retail platform Atlas, which was untested, can be part of the platform and get part of the entire Zoth and ZUSD ecosystem. If you are an institution, ZUSD minting is available to you. You can come to our website, you know, basically whitelisted wallet and mint ZUSD, giving basically higher, um, alpha to your underlying, um, basically better utility for your underlying assets. And yeah, I’m always available. I always say that I’m the chief customer support officer. I’m, uh, who do you call when things go wrong? Call me. So call me anytime I’m available and I’m quite active on socials and anything, um, happy to hear.
1:09:00 Brian Rose: Is that ultimately you think your job is to make sure that the customers are happy?
1:09:06 Pritam Dutta: Um, my job is to be on toes 24 by seven and making sure that people are listened to.
1:09:11 Brian Rose: It’s good, man. Not many founders and CEOs actually say that, you know, they’d like you to think, but they don’t really want them to call them, but you do. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
1:09:23 Okay. Anything goes wrong in Zoth. Call me. I love it. Uh, pretend really excited about what you built. Congratulations on the recent success, uh, with your stable token. That’s incredible. Um, all the best with a token generation event coming up soon. And, uh, we’re just excited to be part of this journey. Uh, really resonated big time with us when you first came on the call. And, um, I think you guys are going to crush it. So, uh, we’re pumped to be here on this journey. Thank you. All right. Glad to have you as our partner.
1:09:48 Pritam Dutta: Appreciate it, man. All thanks. Thank you. And I just want to say thank you to web3 TV. We’ll see you next time.
