Paul McKenna - The Science Of Hypnosis

Full transcript: Paul McKenna on London Real

4:49 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose My guest today is Paul McKenna the most popular hypnotherapist in the world and the UK’s most successful Nonfiction author over the past 20 years. You’ve helped millions of people lose weight quit smoking overcome insomnia Eliminate stress and increase their self-confidence You sold 10 million books including I can make you thin I can make you rich and I can make you happy which recently reached Number one in the UK Paul. Welcome to London Real lovely. See you Brian. Great to be here It’s great to be here as well, and I got a bit of a confession to make, because before I started broadcasting, I used to be a banker.

5:34 And back in around 2006, 2007, I used to have a black cab that would wait for me outside of my flat in Notting Hill and take me into the city. And it took about 25 minutes to get into the city, and I used to play this, the very first thing in the morning. Welcome to the mind-programming CD to make you powerfully confident and feel comfortable in yourself. And then, it’s so, you started my day almost every single day for at least a year, and this is before iPhones.

6:02 So I had an MP3 player, and I would strap myself into the taxi, because I would close my eyes and listen to your piece. One time he hit the brakes and I fell forward, so I locked in, I told the taxi driver not to tell me a story, and then I would listen of this and I was listening to it now for the first time in many years and I was like, wow, it’s very strong. It’s very well thought out. There’s lots of audio, there’s different ear pieces going on here and this is kind of pre-internet, pre-YouTube stuff going on here.

6:33 What is going on in here because this was really a big signature piece of your intellectual property for a long time and it covers a lot of the things that you teach. Well, you know, I- You sound great too. Thank you. Well I was a radio broadcaster so my dad had a great voice and I inherited that. I realised that if I worked one to one with people, I could probably work with a few thousand people in my lifetime and because I had a background in broadcasting, I thought hang on, if I in those days make cassettes and CDs and now of course it’s apps and downloads, I can reach millions of people potentially and so I’ll make one brilliant recording also use the technology as you say if we’re using talking to the right the left brain through the stereo and sounds and voices and sometimes two voices at the same time yeah okay so I could use all of that production that I’d learned from broadcasting and put it into something that you know I hope would help people and will still be used you know even after I’ve gone Wow I mean this very groundbreaking stuff at the time I mean were you always a visionary when it came to kind of technology and message because you know But again kind of pre-internet days. You were a massive figure when it came to distributing this stuff technology and these ideas I suppose yeah, I definitely have a vision about where I want to go and what I want to do and I Suppose it began with I you know

8:03 I went to interview the local hypnotist once when I was working in local radio and I was interested in yoga and meditation and And I just because you were drawn to it. Yeah, I just found it all fascinating You know, I read the old pop psychology book, but I didn’t know anything about hypnosis and I had a terrible day I had around my boss broken up with my girlfriend. The people in the apartment were keeping me up and The guy who I went to see said rather than me tell you about it I need to do it to you because you stressed out. I went knock yourself out Anyway, half an hour later. I woke up and I felt unburdened I felt clear-headed, and I said, can you lend me some books on this?

8:39 And he lent me a book by Richard Bandler, who was later to become my most prolific teacher. And I then started visualizing what it is I wanted to have happen, because I’d read books about that. And- This is all self-taught stuff, because you’re a kid from Hackney. Yeah, well, I was born in Hackney, but I grew up in North London. So technically, I’m a Cockney, because I’m born under the sound of Bow Bells.

9:04 Yeah, I was self-taught in those early days, but I’d learned from you know other people eventually And I asked myself this question which is popular amongst American motivational speakers They say what would you do if you knew you couldn’t fail? And of course that takes all the limit is off and when I asked myself that question I went actually I want to be hypnotist and I want to be on television I want to travel the world I want to work with all kinds of you know interesting people from from the arts from sports from business, I want to be rich, you know, I want to be famous, I want to really live an exotic life. And that was it?

9:41 Well, not exactly. I thought, who will I have to become, and I realized I’d have to educate myself about certain things. I would have to, you know, I’d have to take risks, I’d have to dress differently, I’d have to think kind of differently about things, because remember, I was a radio DJ and I I was in t-shirt and jeans and playing records. And so I’d have to learn to become a psychologist. And in the process of doing so, as we say, when you’re working on a goal, a goal’s working on you.

10:12 And it changed me, and it continues to. My journey continues. And you were always drawn to people at high levels, right? You were always, I mean, you have great mentors. That’s the thing I wanna notice about you, even people on your new podcast as well.

10:25 Simon Cowell, you’re always kinda rubbing elbows with top sports stars, royalty, all of these people, I mean, you must have seen them change their game and that helped you change your game as well. Yes, I mean, I see people, I help people with remedial problems like you mentioned, you help them to lose weight or quit smoking, overcome a phobia. But also, I’ve been fortunate in that a lot of high achievers have come to me and said, I’m already very good at this, but I wanna be the best.

10:50 So help me be even better. Now in athletics, the difference between a medal and an also ran is about 1% now. And so a lot of that can be a success mindset. And so I am fascinated by high achievers. As you mentioned, I’m very lucky to have some great mentors.

11:08 Simon Cowell is a dear friend and a great mentor to me. Richard Bandler has been. Another chap called General Sir Graham Lamb, former director of Special Forces, brilliant minds. And lots of other really good friends. My parents were a fantastic influence upon me.

11:25 And I didn’t really realize that until later in life. They gave me the values I have. And my wife is a wonderful person. There’s somebody that just, she never ceases to fascinate me. I refer to her as a Mandelbrot set because she’s like that fractal pattern that just goes eternally on and on in a beautiful way.

11:44 And that is her. How do you attract a mentor like Simon Cowell? I mean, there’s a weird relationship that happens there because obviously he kind of wants to invest in you and you want to spend time with him. And also, what does he teach you? What does he taught you over the years?

11:58 OK, so Simon, as well as having hit records, did very well in the music business with sort of alternative acts and things like that. And my best friend at school was a well-known record producer. And he said, there’s a guy I’ve got to introduce you to, because I know you’re going to get on. But he wants to take your self-improvement cassettes and make them widely available. And so I went to see him in his office.

12:23 And in those days, he was just in a small office. But I thought, this guy is great. And we didn’t do business together, but we ended up socializing quite a bit. And I was impressed by what a clear thinker he is. If you ask him a question, he’ll tell you, even if it’s not necessarily a comfortable answer that you get, he’ll tell you genuinely and honestly.

12:44 And also, I think we share some of the same values. I mean, he’s an incredibly loyal person, very generous, very kind. And, you know, just very straightforward. In fact, the Simon that you see on television is the Simon that you see it in real life. So, often when I’ve been looking at a business decision and I’ve gone, should I do this or should I do that?

13:05 He’ll say, well, my perspective is this is the upside, this is the downside, and it’s just clearly there in front of you. And also we show a similar sense of humor, we’re both practical jokers. But, you know, I’ve referred to him once as my older brother and he went, Not that much older though. So that’s our relationship. And he, I guess, is a guy that has a big vision and takes big risks.

13:28 Are those some of the takeaways you get from him? And you are too. Well, you know, it’s very interesting. Anita Roddick, that the Body Shop founder said to me once, I’ve never met a highly successful person that takes risks, unnecessary risks. They take educated, calculated risks.

13:45 And so I would say that, yes, that sensible risks are what you need to take and think it through first, you know. But yes, he’s a very clear thinker. He thinks things through and he’s a good listener, right? I’m really a talker, you know. So I like to like rabbit away, you know, and I’m more of a talker than a writer even, I would say.

14:12 Okay, tell me what’s the difference between NLP, hypnosis, and then your blend of it with what you do because all of your books are trying to get people to overcome fears or just blockages with them mentally, but you have this weird mix. So what are the differences between those things? Okay, so NLP stands for neuro-linguistic programming. Neuro as in neurology. Linguistic as language or way of communicating.

14:37 And programming, just as a computer has programs that it runs to do the things it does. We learn to tie our shoelaces as a kid or shake hands and then we store the program, if you like, a habit in our unconscious mind. So next time we come to do it, we don’t have to really think about it, it just happens automatically. And some of the programs we have support us. And some of the things we learn in early life don’t support us, they’re dysfunctional.

15:00 And so using the NLP technology, we can literally reprogram ourselves to be more functional. Because I believe that success and happiness, they’re not created by, they’re not accidents, that sort of just randomly happen to some people, not others, I believe they’re created by certain ways of thinking and acting. And so everything that you do from boiling an egg to making a million bucks comes down to your neuro-linguistic programming. And in NLP, one of the applications we use is hypnosis.

15:31 So NLP was created by Dr. Richard Bandler, Dr. John Grinder. And they studied a number of brilliant therapists and eminent thinkers, people like Gregory Bateson, Milton generics and widely accepted as the world’s greatest clinical hypnotherapist in his day. Virginia Satia, the mother of family therapy, Fritz Perls, Gestalt, a whole host of different brilliant minds, and they created this technology that’s often been described as a sort of a psychology technology, a communication technology, but it’s much more than that.

16:09 NLP, we can help people change unwanted behaviors and problems in minutes that used to take months. But also, we can model people. We can find out what it is that somebody is doing that’s brilliant and codify it so that you can then teach it to somebody else in a fraction of the time that it took them to learn it. So Richard has described NLP as a curiosity, a methodology that leaves behind it a trail of techniques. And so hypnosis is just one of the things that we use in NLP to help us help people to change or to make the sort of differences they want in their life.

16:50 Okay, and all corporations and governments use NLP? Yeah, all the corporations, the governments, the intelligence communities, you know, they’re all using NLP. How are they using it on us? Would we know? Politicians are definitely using it. They’re using it each pattern. Yeah, that’s right I mean, it’s you know, it’s it’s largely benevolently You know, but I mean it’s it’s things like it’s used a lot in sales so that you create greater rapport and you know, you make your message more targeted and You know, it’s used in in in helping people to bolster that as you used it You know, you use that hypnosis some trance each morning to put yourself in the zone in in the right frame of mind Yeah, so that you’re ready to take on your day. Well, it’s used them in politics so that people can Be awfully vague in their language if they’re politicians or that they can convince you You know that they can link good feelings to themselves Both Bill Clinton and Tony Blair and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama all very adept at NLP Right. Yeah, and and their advisers are as well. Is it true? We’re only born with two internal fears and everything else we just build up through the way we’re brought up by our parents and the world it’s sudden loud noises and falling so if something goes bang you don’t think oh should I be frightened you jump yep and the others are learned so if they learn they can be unlearned and you know we use

18:16 NLP to help people say with phobias I mean years ago it used to take psychiatrists about six months to cure phobia using systematic desensitization Now, most phobias are less than 60 minutes. And so in the same way that technology has developed, say you had a cell phone back in the 80s, it was the size of a brick, and all you could do was make calls on it. Now it’s the size of a bar of chocolate, you can have your office on it, your record collection, you can watch television on it.

18:48 And so in the same way, psych tech, psychological technology has dramatically improved in the last 20, 30 years. We’ve had all kinds of amazing, we’ve just made a massive advancement in the treatment of PTSD. So what used to take us ages to cure and PTSD is a big problem these days, particularly with war veterans and without the people in the emergency services. Do you do that work as well? I do that work a lot.

19:13 I’ve been involved in that work extensively. In fact, there’s a brilliant new technology called Havenic, that’s its sort of common colloquial name. You’ve always used in your techniques, right, Havenine? I’ve used Havenine for about 10 years. Okay.

19:28 What is it? It’s basically psychosensory therapy, and if I can be sort of scientific just for a moment, when we get traumatized, 100 Hz wave travels from the thalamus and phosphorates what we call the AMPA receptors. In other words, it creates a biological change in the brain. Now when you touch here, here, here, and you move the eyes laterally from left to right, you create a massive amount of delta weights. And so that defoccerates the AMPA receptors.

19:57 So this is particularly good for people that have the panic attacks, the nightmares, and the hypervigilance. And when people tell me that they’ve been traumatized, they can’t get over it, often in minutes that can be dissolved. And in fact, there have been several studies into this, one at King’s College here in London. And 7 in 10 people, 70% of the people in one session had a 180, had a significant life change. So this is an exciting new area.

20:30 There’s a number of these psychosensory therapies. There’s one where you tap here and here and here, one where you look up and go back and forth. But my favorite is the havenings. And when you’re doing the havenings, are you also thinking of things and saying things? Yeah, there’s some visualizations.

20:43 Something that’s usually quite enjoyable, walking on a beach or if you’ve got a pet a dog or playing ping pong, something like that. Okay, the problem with PTSD, as I understand it, is that they can’t reconnect and resolve some of those moments in time without having that reaction in their body. Yes. They can never actually process what happens. Yes, well what’s happened is, is when somebody’s been through extreme trauma, very often, you know, particularly people who’ve trained to go into battle have learned to be hypervigilant because that’s a good survival strategy.

21:15 The trouble is though, they stay in that state when they return back home and it’s safe. And then when they’ve been through a traumatic experience, some really awful stuff actually, then very often their brain brings it back and they relive it for a number of different reasons. And using hypnosis, NLP, havening, we’re able to reset the emotional equilibrium of a person so that they can function again. When you look at the world today, you have so many tools in your brain.

21:49 One of my mentors says, Brian, fear is F-E-A-R, false expectations appearing real. Most people have these phantoms in their lives that make them duck everything and hide from things and play small. Most of your techniques are about getting over those things. Even big phobias, I’ve seen you on television give people over heights, their fear of heights in a minute. Do you sometimes look at the world and just think, if you could just embrace these Fears and go through these techniques the whole world could get 20% better. Yes, I do I mean Mark Twain said famously I’ve been through some terrible experiences in my life and some of them actually happened and you know I think way too much time is spent every day worrying and catastrophizing by way too many people But you know people with phobias do have a genuine fear, you know, they’re not putting it on they actually are terrified of spiders snakes elevators dentist dogs, etc and And my mission is to get as many people feeling better and more in control and basically bringing freedom as possible.

22:48 And I think that, you know, if you look at, say, the very interesting experiments that have been done over the last few years with meditators going into a couple of thousand meditators going into, say, Washington, D.C. And they meditate for two weeks. And during that time, the violent crime rate goes down massively. down massively, and this has been done over 50 times all over the world. So it’s fair to assume that if we’ve got more people feeling good, rather than in fear-based aggression, like we have right now, because turn on the news and you’re under attack, right?

23:25 And there’s that fantastic new book, I’m trying to get the name of it, that Bill Gates is giving to all the grad students, that explains that really the world ain’t quite as bad as we think, you know? But the bad stuff, the emotive stuff sells. So right now, people are turning on the TV and thinking that it could be the end of the world. And actually, it could not as well. If it bleeds, it leads, they say.

23:53 How do you deal with your own personal fears and phobias? Because what do they say, physician heal thyself, right? And so for you, I’m sure you’ve been in loops in your life where you’re like, wait a second, I got this under control or now I don’t. How have you processed that over the years? Well, you’re absolutely right.

24:07 I mean, I don’t have all the answers, even though people use the word guru when they refer to me. I’m not. Yeah, I’m more like a psychological engineer, if you like. Oh, absolutely, I have problems and challenges. I get it wrong, you know, I can’t figure something out.

24:21 So, you know, I might call one of my friends and say, you know, I’m really struggling with this. What do you think? And sometimes, you know, I don’t recognize I’m stuck. You know, when my father died, I was in a really bad way, actually. And I was also working a lot with veterans.

24:37 And these are people who are very depressed. And I got infected with that mindset. And one of my friends, he’s a Zen master. He called me up, Gemper Roshi, and he called me and he said, he goes, he’s American, he says, I understand you’re depressed. And I said, California.

24:54 Yeah, I said, yeah, I suppose I’m not feeling great. He goes, I wanna speak to the voice of depression dissolved. And I went, okay. And he said, what’s it like to be disowned? And I went, depressing.

25:11 And we had a dialogue with that aspect of me. And it’s interesting because many years ago, I remember getting my heart broken as I go back to the hypnotist that I interviewed. And I thought, I never wanna feel bad again. So I’m gonna learn techniques to make me feel good. What I didn’t realize is feeling good and bad is part of life.

25:31 And so it isn’t one constant rah-rah. And so, you know, I also, of course, the other thing is, you know, sometimes, you know, it can just be a simple piece of wisdom from like my mother or from my wife or somebody like that. Or, you know, I mean, for example, my friend Mikey Neal, who’s a brilliant life coach, he said to me a few years ago, he said, you know, he goes, again from California, I noticed he goes, you date some really beautiful women, right?

25:58 I said, yeah, I suppose so, he says, but you don’t like them. I went, no. I said, well, what’s that got to do with it? He went, no, no, stupid thinking, stupid. And I said, okay, what do you think I should do?

26:09 So he said, think, who do you love to be with? Who do you like spending time with, right? He goes, and who do you feel very attracted to? So I put these two ideas into my subconscious, went off into a little trance, and it drew an Excel spreadsheet, and it went like that, and it went, Kate, Kate. In your brain?

26:27 Yeah, in my mind, my imagination. And I went, ah, because Kate had been my assistant for years, and she ended up running the companies and everything, we worked together. And she’s a beautiful woman. And I went, hmm, this is very awkward. I can’t, this would be unprofessional.

26:43 My mother had said to me, you know, she said, are you and Kate? I went, no, I can’t, because, you know, we work together. Anyway, one night we were sitting in my kitchen a few weeks later, and we’d had a couple of bolts of wine. And I said, so tell me something about you that I don’t know. And she said, I love you.

26:59 And I feel the same. So sometimes it can come from, it isn’t necessarily remedial. Although at times I have felt really stuck. And I try and figure it out myself. And if I can’t, I go and ask somebody else.

27:14 And I go, what would you do about this? Or I want you to help me with this. Give me a bit of advice. So I’m very fortunate in that I’m surrounded by some really good people. And also, because life’s been good to me, And I try and help people as much as I can.

27:32 I’ve never charged anyone for therapy in all the years I’ve been doing it. I ask them to give a donation to charity. And I work with, it’s reported when I work with famous people because they’re going to tell everyone. But most of the people I work with are just regular people. Like yesterday I spent, yesterday afternoon working with a guy with serious PTSD who’s, you know, this is a hero soldier, you know, who’s putting himself in harm’s way, you know, so we can all sleep safe at night.

27:57 And he’s come back, not physically wounded, but mentally scarred. And so I feel, firstly, I enjoy doing that. And because I’ve spent a lot of time honing it, it’s easy for me. What’s a few hours for me, and will be a lifetime for him. And you never charge for your services.

28:14 I’ve never charged. They always donate to charity. Yeah. I mean, a couple of times people have said to me, I have got to do, no, I can’t have this. I feel uncomfortable.

28:23 And I’ve said, well, I don’t know, endorse my work. That would be really nice. And so they have. They’ve probably gone and said, Paul McKenna, help me. And by the way, I love that.

28:31 That’s great. That probably comes back to you tenfold, though, when you just give all that away. Do you believe in giving out good energy to the world and it coming back? Totally. You lived in California for ten years.

28:41 Yeah. I do believe in it. But last night at dinner, one of my oldest friends said to me, he said, Paul, you seem very happy right now. I said, I am. He said, years ago, I would have said, healer, heal thyself, because I was going through a few challenges.

28:53 But he said one of the things I thought also is you give to everyone else and you don’t look after yourself enough And it’s a very good point you see because self-care if I’m not looking after me, then I can’t can’t do my job as well You know, so it’s it’s in a way I actually have to book time when I’m not going to do anything because otherwise, you know with my ADHD and my busy mind I’d be doing stuff all day long So I have to actually book some time to self-care to meditate or work out or just do You know something really just simple walk the dog in the park or something Yeah, tell me about that time in the naughties and then you moved to LA for ten years But you know for people that don’t understand I mean kind of pre internet and pre YouTube and pre search function, you know, there was only so many movies in town Yeah, so many books so many television shows and you were on a lot of them Yeah, and you were on a lot of people’s minds and you were hanging out with celebrities doing this thing You’re out in LA you’re living large. Yes, and now that you’ve seen that in perspective of what you went through What did you learn from that time both good and bad? Well, I think it’s a great question, right?

29:55 I was very ambitious, you know, and I’ve really been very focused on on achieving In fact, I’d says an overachiever. So, you know going to Los Angeles was like going to Lourdes for me. It was Fantastic. I’m in a town of overachiever Egomaniacs, how fantastic So they feel you because you you get inspired by them and you want to compete with them Yeah, I mean, you know you kind of like attracts like I think you know It’s the law of sympathetic resonance If you got two pianos in a room and you hit a C chord on one the C chord on the other vibrates So I’d wanted to live and work in the United States I’d gone in 95 to work for ABC and had a smash show There was some politics and I got to be shut up taken off the air because the president ABC thought, you know Hypnotism was brainwashing and there was something like that And so I then had to I went to New York to play on Broadway for a while and I still really wanted to get back and get work on American television and and then I thought because I’ve been going back and forth I need to you know build it and they will come and It was actually on Simon Cowell’s advice. I decided buy a house and And be there, you know location location location even before you got the opportunity. Oh, yeah And you know, I bought this house and I woke up about after two or three nights there You know and how to fall panic attack, right? And I went I have moved house job country in the last two weeks

31:22 Well, the hell have I done and Then I’m sort of friend of mine even you wouldn’t be human if you didn’t this is probably quite you human and Of course very soon. I I landed a fantastic fantastic deal with Discovery. I then did a book deal. And so business was good. But I was also, because there are a lot of Brits in LA right now, we’ve invaded in the same way we did in the 60s with The Beatles and The Rolling Stones and Pink Floyd and Genesis and Elton John and so on. So we, you know, the Brits, the scripted, non-scripted, in front of the camera, behind the camera, in television is cool. And so it was a very good social scene and you know I’m quite a social person you know I am years ago I love going in nightclubs and you know I did all the things a young man would do but it was here it was a few years ago I was in a nightclub myself and Ryan Seacrest and and we were sitting there and we have the VIP table and champagne LA and I thought I can’t wait for this place to close so we can go home and have a glass of red wine and a conversation you know and so I knew And I’ve gotten a little older, so I think LA was the right place for me, the person I was at that time.

32:39 And even though I had a lot of pleasure in my life, I don’t think I was entirely happy. And I just wanted the more, the more, the bigger, the bigger, you know, the more status, more money, more power, more fame. And that’s temporarily satisfying. But that’s pleasure. That’s not happiness.

32:54 Happiness is really the backdrop, the emotional backdrop to your everyday life, right? the landscape of it. And so I did some work on myself because again, one of my mentors, Dr. Ronald Rudin, the creator of the Havening techniques, a brilliant MD and a PhD in neuropharmacology, smart guy. He said, you know, Paul, I think, you know, you got some things you might want to deal with there.

33:17 And East Coast. And so, yeah. Jewish. Jewish. A bit like Woody Allen.

33:24 He’s actually like, okay. Sorry, Ronnie, if you’re watching this. And it’s anyway, so he said I think you may want to deal with some of those early issues in your life So anyway, we went and did it and I talked it out. No, no, yeah She did the heavy I went go find the worst times in your life and knock them flat all right, and bingo I felt real good and something changed and That was when it happened with my wife when I got together with Kate And I suddenly thought his Kate is not life at 35,000 feet and red carpet like me she’s I would say rather a grounded person and so you know it moved away from being relentless goals you know to more a life where I live my values so love laughter happiness creativity making positive difference to the world loyalty family those sorts of things if I can tick the box of those every day and say did I feel loved was I loving towards some you know people I love was a creative? Did I feel like I’ve achieved something today? If I can tick those boxes then my life’s worthwhile and so you know it’s interesting things like that first cup of tea in the morning and also coming home to see my wife and my dog and you know stepping through the front door or just sometimes sitting and having a conversation or just watching the movie but with the person I love now is what makes my life feel complete, whereas before it felt like I was endlessly on a treadmill.

35:00 And so even though I’m pro goals and I’d say more direction, because without a direction it’s like getting in a boat without a rudder, you could end up anywhere, I actually, every 10 years decide this is the direction of my life and I’m just teeing up the next 10 years and it’s looking nice. All right, and will those have specific metrics? They will, like I will. Yeah, but they will and they won’t, sorry. They used to be, I must by the end of the year, bam, right?

35:29 And now it’s over the next few years, I would very much like to spend time socializing with people I love. I would like to, I’m enjoying this podcast I’m doing at the moment, so meeting and talking in really interesting ways with interesting people. I like doing these motivational events where with several hundred people, I turn people’s lives around and I leave people feeling great. And so it’s a little bit sort of psychology rock star of that. But also, I kind of like to just slow it down.

36:06 And I have a comfortable couch on Netflix and that’s quite nice to sit in. I quite like watching these binge TV shows. you know, I’d say my favorite is probably The Shield, that gritty American cop show. But I love some of the old ones like Cojack. You know, when, you know, there’s- Who loves you, baby?

36:28 Exactly. I mean, the thing about the seventies was, for me, is, you know, I love the music of the seventies, the glamorous disco, the punk rock, you know, but also, I like the fashions and everything. I like many of the TV shows, like the Kojaks, things like that, but also the world was a simpler place. And that I kind of like, even though I like the technology of now. There was also a whole load of really awful things about the seventies.

36:55 You know, if you think back, there was homophobia then, you know, there was all sorts of things that, you know, we’ve gotten smarter about now. But so- But you have the nostalgia for that simplicity. Oh, I do. And also it’s the music of the time. I mean, you know, I grew up listening to Led Zeppelin and the who, and the Beatles, and Pink Floyd, and all I wanted to do was be a radio DJ.

37:20 And you don’t miss the parties in LA? Do you know? No, I mean, we had a dinner party, when I was back in last week, we had a dinner party, and that’s very much talked to people. I find it fascinating. Whereas when I was living there, I used to think I had to be like three things every night.

37:35 I had to be in the mix. I had to be doing it, and wow, I liked it. I liked the buzz of it. I find all that a bit tiring now, But also, it’s not that I think it’s a bad thing. Occasionally, I quite like going to some glitzy thing, but I got a feeling that it’s gonna be a different pace of life.

37:49 Well, in fact, I know it is. We’ll be spending more time in the country. British countryside’s real nice. Yeah, and so I got a feeling that it’s a log fire, it’s maybe another dog. It’s kind of, instead of having to wake up each morning and go, right, how do I conquer the world?

38:04 It’s savoring it. It’s more contentment, that’s what I suspect. Okay, so the podcast is an extension of that. It’s called the Positivity Podcast. You got some great names so far, Simon Cowell, Tony Robbins, Gary Lineker.

38:17 That’s gonna continue, you’re gonna do what, one a week of those? And into your old Rolodex or people you don’t know? Yeah, I mean, oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah, at the moment it’s, well, some of them are people I know and also I’m about to contact a load of people I don’t know because it’s been such a hit. I can now say, look at all these names of people who’ve done it and, you know, and also, you know, And I think I’m hoping that they might find it interesting to sit and talk for 30 minutes in a non-journalistic format, in a more, you know, the basic gist of it, Brian, is how do you do what you do?

38:50 And what’s your success mindset? But without actually asking that question directly. So going round the houses and asking, you know, lots of different questions that lead you to understand how people recover from, you know, setbacks, how they look at this. So basically, when you listen to the podcast, You would go, oh, I see how Simon Cowan looks at the world. I see how Warwick Davis views the world.

39:13 I see how Paul Oakenfold, you know, how he goes about making a record. How interesting. Yeah, what’s been your most coolest moment or the surprise that was revealed to you by even one of your friends? Because the beauty of a podcast is you can kind of ask things and have conversations you wouldn’t even have over a glass of wine because it’s kind of that everything’s amped up a little because there’s a recording device. That’s very true.

39:33 Do you know, I’d say, And I was going to sound like an invasive answer, but it’s not. Many of the people I’ve known for 20 years or so. And yet, I never knew half the stuff that they come out with. I went, wow. I mean, so some of it’s really sort of in the minutia, the small stuff.

39:51 Like, I said to Gary Lineker, how come you schooled more goals than anyone else? He went, ah. He goes, I never chased. I wouldn’t chase the ball. I’d look at a space where I thought it might end up and run to it.

40:03 And nine times out at 10, I was wrong, but that one time, bam, I knock it home. So his strategy for scoring goals is interesting. I said to Warwick, what’s it like living with dwarfism? He says, well, I don’t know anything else, do I? So to me, it’s just normal.

40:16 And he said, sure, I have to reach for things. But this is how it’s normal for me. I thought it was very interesting. When I said to Simon McCowell about when And he talked about how he’d had a setback early on in life, in business. And that had made him even more determined to succeed.

40:41 Rob Brydon, who’s Welsh comedian, as you probably know, he was saying how he’d, when he’d started out, he was doing a sort of, you know, a load of Welsh jokes, and he’s got the nightclub, and somebody went, bahh, bahh, bahh, and he was so embarrassed he left the stage. And he thought, I can’t do this. I can’t become a comedian. But the next day he woke up and he went, I’m gonna show him. And I had this conversation with Tony Robbins and we were both talking about this saying, how is it?

41:11 Because I got a school report that said I would never amount to anything. You did? Yeah. So when I had my first number one bestseller book, I wrote fuck you in it and sent it to my English teacher. I’ve heard that a few times.

41:22 I said, well, you know, it’s childish, but it’s very gratifying. And so I said, you know, what do you think it is that when some people have some crushing event happen to them that they just, they never recover from it and other people are like, right, I’ll show you. And it makes them even stronger. And I think we came to the conclusion that with some people it’s just in their character. I think so, right.

41:44 And to some extent, it might also be environmental because, you know, if you are continually told that say, you know, you’re a winner, you’re a chibi you’re lucky, right? You know, people who believe they’re lucky, usually they’re statistically luckier, but also that’s partly because they see opportunities because their filter, their perceptual filters set up differently. This is what the scientific research shows. This is not just my view on it. And that usually comes from people being told, and so even when bad things happen they go, oh I was lucky, you had a close scrape there, didn’t you? And so luck doesn’t have to be winning all the time. Luck can be being resilient in in different and challenging situations.

42:25 Right, and so you think some of it’s born, but some of it is the talk you do yourself and you can set yourself up for more winning situations. Yeah, I would say I go along with the palm readers. This is what you’re born with, this is what you do with it. And so if you’re born with oratory skills, let’s say, or you happen to be in an environment where you develop that, you could be an Adolf Hitler or you could be a Martin Luther King. I mean, my take is everybody knows the difference between right and wrong.

42:50 Sociopaths just don’t care. and psychopaths, they actually enjoy doing things that hurt other people. And so being a sociopath is probably another word for being a bit selfish, right? So we all know what’s right and wrong, but occasionally we do things that are wrong. And you know, and then hopefully we learn from those things.

43:08 You know, I hope I have. I’m still in the process of learning. In fact, you know, I think the older I get, the more I realize I don’t know really. You know what I mean? When I was young, I knew everything.

43:19 I was like such a cocky young guy. Now I go, I really don’t know that much, but I’m prepared to roll up my sleeves and get stuck in and find out. You know a lot of cool people in a lot of cool places, whether it’s producers or actors or CEOs or royalty, all that stuff. A lot of people would die for your Rolex and your connections. A lot of people are always saying, how can I get someone like Simon Cowell, the mentor, I mean, all that.

43:42 How do you think you do it? I mean, I’m guessing it’s maybe because you’re really generous with your time and you try to help people with first interaction, But this doesn’t happen by chance, you know, you know, I want to be around you. What is it? Well, I think I’m lucky for a start and I’m really interested in people. I’m fascinated by them and all my life people Found it easy. It seems to me to talk to me and You know, it’s just one of those things. I don’t consider it a burden. It’s a blessing. It’s really good in what I do and One of the things I found is early on, because a lot of people helped me, even when I was a radio DJ, people were just helpful to me, mostly that is.

44:27 I couldn’t understand why, because there was nothing in it for them, but I assumed that maybe they liked me or that it was good for their self-esteem. If I said, hey, how do you do this? I’m just really wondering, can I borrow from your wisdom? If somebody asks me, says, I really need you, if I don’t know, I’ll say, look, I don’t know. But if I do, I feel quite good helping them and telling them.

44:51 And I can’t help everyone every time with everything. But often, if I think I know the right person for them, then I’ll send them in that direction. And so, I don’t know. I mean, this friend of mine who is an astrologer, he sadly is passed down, a brilliant astrologer. And he kind of believed that, not that everything’s fixed, that you have destiny moments.

45:15 When I rang him up once, I’d got into a relationship with my now wife. And I said, Graham, I’m in a relationship. He said, yeah, started three weeks ago to the day, didn’t it? I went, yeah, how the hell do you know? He goes, well, what do I?

45:28 Oh, yeah, of course. And so how’s that work? He goes, well, the chances of this were well-aspected. So I think some of it, you know, might be that maybe I was born to do what it is. I mean, you know, I always knew actually when I was young that I’d be famous and I thought it was gonna be in the field of communication, right?

45:49 And so that’s why I assumed it was a radio broadcaster. I didn’t realize it was as a hypnotist and, you know, a broadcaster, I suppose, in some extent, and author. So I suppose in some sense, you know, maybe there is a little bit of destiny in there. Although, I firmly believe we create our own destiny, our own futures, or certainly we have free will. We’ve got freedom of choice, you know, and people often say, oh, but doesn’t it take a long time and a lot of effort to change?

46:16 And I go, you know, I’ve seen people change in a heartbeat like that. They’ve gone, right, I’ve had enough, I’m never doing that again. And they don’t, or they go, oh, they meet that particular person. In that moment, their life changes. Or, you know, they suddenly have an idea for something.

46:30 And I go, I just know this is going to work. And we’ve all had that experience, or something like that, I would imagine. Are you super honest with your friends? I mean, are you the guy that tells Simon, I think you should do this? Or are your friends the one that tell that to you?

46:46 They’re all happy to tell me. No, I’m a Scorpio, so we’re very secretive. But there are a handful of people that I feel I can be, I’m pretty open with most people. But there are some things that I think should be private. But I don’t have any deep dark skeletons or anything like that.

47:08 But I suppose it’s natural for us Scorpios to be a little bit secretive, if you like. But yeah, everyone’s quite happy to be very candid with me, it seems. I mean, I want more yes people around me. All this candidness is too much. I’ll work on that.

47:25 You mentioned that meditation effect that happened when those people went into DC, that the crime went down and everything. Do you think that there is some kind of a weird collective consciousness, or some type of energy source with us humans, and do you think that exists? Well, actually, the science says it does. Now, there’s a really interesting study done by Dean Raden, who’s a brilliant American scientist, and they put electronic coin flippers in universities all around the world.

47:50 These are flipping zeros and ones in a random pattern 300 times a second. Now whenever there’s an incident of mass consciousness such as the Super Bowl, the O.J. Simpson verdict, the death of Diana, all of them go out of a random pattern into organized patterns. Before the planes that hit the twin towers had even taken off, the machines in the universities all around the world went into the organized patterns. And so it’s as though there is some sort of cosmic consciousness and so that’s why what I want to do is get as many people in meditating and using meditative techniques like hypnosis and feel-good techniques, because that will cancel out the fear-based aggression that is presently polluting our planet, right?

48:37 And so I think we need more people to feel good and be less selfish and the world will be a better place. I agree. Tell me about the Paul McKenna daily routine. What are some of the things you do every single day to get you in this state of creativity and peace and all of that stuff. Well, there’s no two days of the same, really, Brian, but if I had to sort of generalize about it.

49:00 These success secrets are only available on the London Real Academy. Become a member and get access to live shows, exclusive courses, my webinars, bonus content, meetups, live events, an amazing community, and much, much more. Now back to the rest of the show. And that’s allowed you to create so many books. Yes.

49:29 Very prolific. Yes. By that maybe brainstorming and then critiquing in that order. Yeah, and also, well, being in the field. You see, you know, having worked with people for 30 years and heard all kinds of problems and things like that and figured out the basic structure of human beings, because even though people are unique, there’s also a kind of mechanicalness about it, certainly a structure to the way that people think and organize themselves.

49:53 And so even though what I do doesn’t work for everyone every single time, it works for most people most of the time. And so what I’m trying to do is to help, I write blockbuster self-improvement books rather than niche ones. I mean, I may well do some niche in the future. You know, I’m on my last book at the moment of the contract I’m presently under. So after that, I’ve got to reevaluate it.

50:18 I mean, I have got an idea about some things I might like to do. I mean, it’s funny, As soon as I’ve sort of accomplished one thing, I then create some sort of bigger goal and then a big one, a big one. Apparently, I’ve heard this from people who climb mountains. When they reach the peak, they feel like they wanna keep on going. That’s the only metaphor I suppose I could use to describe what happens when I’ve completed something.

50:38 I go, now, what’s the next thing? Yeah, it sounds like when we try to make a movie around here, it’s the same process. And I remember Martin Scorsese said, when you watch the first rough cut of your movie, if you’re not physically sick, something’s wrong. And that’s how you usually feel. Yeah, I can imagine.

50:53 I mean, sometimes, you know, it’s nice early on, I think, oh, I think this is gonna be good. By the way, I’m not always right about it. You know, I mean, no one sets out to make a bad movie or write a bad book, but sometimes, I mean, with the podcasts, I mean, I was absolutely mind-blown. You know, the first week, the thing slams in at number two on iTunes across all podcasts and, you know, beating, you know, some of these brilliant, big, big, you know, institutions.

51:21 And when I got the phone call, I did a little jig, you know, I went, yes, you know, we got a hit. There’s something really like extraordinary about having a hit. Yeah, you’ll always like that. Oh, I will. You know, and it’s always a little bit addictive in a way.

51:34 I mean, you know, in the same way- It’s looking like a true addict. Yeah, that’s right. It’s addictive. I just love having hits. Well, but you know, also, what I also like, and I believe is a positive addiction is, being in, psychologists call it being in the flow.

51:48 Athletes call it being in the zone, Musicians call it being in the groove now, even though multi-millionaire musicians don’t need to tour. Why do they do it? Yeah, they love performing they get in the groove and it’s just so joyous and Being in the flow or in the zone. Whatever. It’s when you say and do all the right things You just make the right moves you you know, you you take something that’s a bit challenging and wow You turn it around and it feels so good. Yeah. Yeah, if I was gonna ask five of your friends What is Paul’s superpower? Like how do you get all this stuff done?

52:19 How do you live the life? What would they say it was? What is the one thing that you do different? Do you know what’s a really great question last night? We played a game at dinner, which was a friend of mine does four squares something you’re rubbish app something you’re mediocre I something you’re good at and something you’re brilliant at and I can’t remember what I had for rubbish it was

52:44 Something like it would be patients, something like knitting. I’m mediocre at making coffee. I’m more of a tea guy. I’m good at making people laugh, I’m good at speaking publicly, but I’m brilliant at, as a therapist, as an agent of change, I’m also brilliant at having fun. I have a lot of fun. I really And also, I like to think I’m able to encourage other people to have fun.

53:20 How do you do that? How do you have fun? Well, it depends, you know, because sometimes, like some of my friends don’t laugh out loud. They’re just terribly amused. Well, you’re very high performance friends as well, so you think they’re very focused a lot.

53:35 Well, yeah, I mean, some of them know, you know, I’m not always the life and soul of the party, although, you know, I don’t mind being, but I actually quite like to to watch other people with it. But, I mean, I think, how do I do it? You try to get people to laugh out loud. Yeah, I try to get people to laugh, but also, I get them fascinated. You know, so like the other night, Robbie Williams is fascinated by flying saucers.

53:59 So we sat, and I know a lot about flying saucers because I made a TV show about them. And so we sat and had the most intriguing conversation about it, and we weren’t laughing about it, we were laughing about a couple of things. But, you know, it was just, it was one of those things where it was pure fascination. Whereas, you know, with somebody else, or with a, I look at the group of people, you know, and I think, what is, you know, I kind of get a sense of what the group needs.

54:24 Like, you know, if it’s a dinner party, you know, I’d be careful about the language I use, or I’d be careful about what I might speak about. Or, you know, some of my friends, we just like to have a good old gossip, and you know, and laugh at, you know, sometimes stories about some of our colleagues and things like that, you know. so so it can be very childish you know in fact sometimes um what i like to do is is um is i i have an old-fashioned uh cellular phone right okay because with my ADHD if i had my office and my record collection everything on my phone i’d be on that all day on social media so my i borrow my wife’s iphone and i’ll make some stupid little film and i’ll send it to somebody you know to one of my friends you know and you know i get like a talking doll or something And I’ll film it and do something really childish and send it off to a couple of and then they’ll send me something back, you know So you’re brilliant at that. Well, I that’s I think having fun Yeah, I mean we did joke about this myself and some of my friends We went you know, we should do we said we should find people that you know I’ve that wanna have lavish parties that that have got that just don’t out enjoy themselves and you hire us to come in and Make you goddamn. Enjoy yourself, you know And that might be laughing or it might just be like, wow, isn’t this all just isn’t life fantastic?

55:45 Isn’t it fun? Because some people it’s not it’s not laughter. It’s fascination You know, some people just want to just sit there and go, you know, there’s one of my friends He never laughs out loud and I know entity I I sometimes say really outrageous things Just to get it just because he and to get him going and and at the same time he’s fascinating And he’ll go, you’re Scottish, he goes, you’re properly crazy, you’re nuts, aren’t you? And sometimes you’re not sure whether I’m making it up or not.

56:13 So fun can come in many forms. I mean, playing a game of cards and being very competitive, sometimes the competitiveness, that can be the most fun as well. You should offer that service out to anybody who wants. It could be fun for you to go to a really uptight party and just try to make them laugh. Yeah, I’m thinking about some really miserable, boring billionaires, you know, who haven’t tried to smile in years, and they’re endlessly into pleasure, but they don’t know about real joy.

56:39 That’s it, I think we’d be very expensive as well. If there’s anyone watching, they can book you. Seven figures, though, at least. It’s gonna be a lot, yeah. Well, for me to round up the people, I think, that would be, but I think the people are the most fun.

56:50 Yeah, we got them all together. Probably make a great reality show. This could be a TV show, yeah, because if Seinfeld did driving in cars with coffee with comedians, you could do Making People Laugh with Bumblebee. Yeah, it could be like a- audience crossover cheer up the misery that’s right yeah another he could be interesting no one see that side of you maybe yeah I mean the and also the way we plan it the behind the scenes will go we profile the people and go yeah he’s interested in trains right there’s something like yeah then this guy he thinks other people’s misfortune is funny right so I’ll pretend to fall over or something yeah we we could do it almost like a mission impossible you know I love this idea what was the best day of your life and the worst day mmm good Good question.

57:31 Gina, there’s been so many best days. Probably getting married was up there. What was the first big success for you? Was it TV show or the book? Well, yeah, I think one of the really big successes was I made, well, actually, I basically, I made a list of all the resources I had.

57:55 I worked in radio, and I did this process and I was walking down Tottenham Court Road and I suddenly went, hang on, the radio station owns a theater, I make all these promos saying Seeping Floyd in concert with capital FM. And so I went to the boss of the radio station, Richard Park, and I said, look, Richard, do you think I might be able to hire the theater, because I had to go and borrow half a year’s salary from the bank, hire the theater, and would the radio station help promote my hypnotism shows? And he sat back and he goes I’ll back you now I think all success in life comes down to people backing you whether for a politician you need voters to back you if you’ve got a Shop you got your customers backing and that was a destiny moment And when I literally within a few weeks, I’d managed to sell this theater out I mean I was I was overwhelmed, you know And then a TV producer approached me and he said I’ve been looking for you for 10 years I want to do hypnotism show on TV. I said, okay, let’s make it happen. Let’s do it You know, I’m up for it and I went to bed one night and I woke up the next and I couldn’t walk down the street you know and without people that guy from TV and It was a bit overwhelming and I wasn’t really ready for all the sort of invasiveness of the paparazzi and everything You know, but if I realized I’d signed up for it. So, um, do you like the fame?

59:10 Yes, I like that but you know, there’s different kinds of fame There’s sort of tabloid fame like say I don’t know like so the Kardashians have There’s you know, there’s there’s some sort of iconic fame say like Al Pacino has there’s that Dan Brown’s one of the most famous authors in the world I couldn’t tell you what he looks like me but he’s got a different kind of fame, right? So you have the fame where you’ve helped people. Yeah, well what I have is I have a sort of cult fame in that you know people yes, I have a mainstream fame in as much as people buy my books and You know and also I’m I suppose I’m out of a fame, you know because of the association with all the help and the self-help stuff So actually, yeah, I like being famous For a while. I didn’t like the you know when it first started I felt very uneasy about it But in fact, I asked a couple of my friends recently who was super famous who are super famous I said the fame or the money What would you have they both went the money? I’d give the same back. Yeah, right In fact, they they one of them said I actually want to give it back, but I can’t right It’s too late. Yeah, worst day of my life would be

1:00:21 Good my dad dying was pretty tough actually Was oh my god, that was awful and his funeral actually in fact, you’re close to him or it was sudden No, well, he had been ill for some time and then yeah, he’d been in hospital for a while and I thought he was better and and so I went back to America and then he died and God it was hard. In fact throwing the dirt on the coffin scarred me I think in a way, it was very hard and I was so sad for so long and I couldn’t figure out why and then suddenly I went all I’m thinking about is that fucking hospital and the machine going beat and that was the last few months of its life. The 84 years he lived were fantastic and so every time that picture came up I’d move it out of the way and I think about his playing football or I’d think about his watching Dirty Rotten Scoundrels Laughing so hard we were crying or I think about him saying something nice like I’m proud of your son You know and so those were the moments I chose to remember and still do and so you know It wouldn’t be natural and normal if I wasn’t sad because somebody I love has gone But at the same time he wouldn’t want me to be sad He’d want me to be happy by the way I want everyone to be very sad when I die I want a state funeral and I want all the names of all my detractors to be put up on television and shamed and You know and asked are you sorry now for all the things you said now?

1:01:49 He’s gone and you’ll be at Westminster Abbey in the car and the coffee and we’ll stay funeral. Yeah I mean no reason why we can’t you know, actually I really don’t care because I think I won’t give I won’t care Once I’ve gone, you know, so I wouldn’t mind So with your father you’re upset by the pain he had those last few months The father it was it was it was awful to see I really hate seeing anyone. I love in pain Well, I’m gonna see anyone in pain actually. What do you think of your career and all of your craziness?

1:02:16 He actually when I told my mother I wanted to work on Radio Caroline, which is pirate radio station I was 20 years old. She went you’re going out to a pirate radio ship. I said yes, and Well, it was a ship then yeah, I was 18 miles of this in the Icelandic trawler I 18 miles off the coast of England is illegal as well to work on it Like brilliant, you know, it’s a freedom of speech movement. I get to go and play rock music It was fantastic. And so My mother was concerned but they were supportive and my parents were all supported then I told them I said I want to be a hypnotist And they went it’s not dangerous hypnotism. I went no actually it’s completely safe They went but is it scientific, you know, how are you gonna make a living from it? I went I don’t know Yeah, I’m just gonna get stuck in and find out I tend to move towards success rather than away from failure So, I mean, it’s best to weigh up, you know, the the upside and the downside This is Richard Branson’s thing before he does a venture He looks at the upside and the downside and if the upside is massive then he goes for it Yeah, so I tend to do that educated calculated risk But I do tend to jump in every now and again and your parents always supported you were also incredulous by your decisions They were they were surprised I think but but proud and I didn’t really realize how brilliant my parents were until until later in life and how much they gave me

1:03:33 In terms of their, you know, my father was honest, decent, authentic, charismatic, and kind man. You know, and the Dalai Lama says kindness is my religion. And I’d like to think it’s mine too, actually. And so, you know, I’ve seen a lot of cruelty in my life and that’s given me a taste of compassion and kindness. So subconscious things that your parents show you that when you’re a kid, you don’t respect them for that.

1:03:58 That’s right. I thought they were a bit square, you know, and And so what I didn’t realize was, you know, they actually my mother has a terrific sense of humor and she’s a very positive person and you know, she’s celebrated her 80th birthday last year and She’s um, you know, she’s got a great enjoyment of life and so, you know, I like to think I get some of that plus of course She’s super smart. I can’t get even past her She could go and work for Scotland Yard tomorrow figure out most of their crime. So I can’t get any there’s someone I can’t keep a secret from What scares you?

1:04:37 Well, you know Sometimes I get like a bit nervous if I’m if I’m outside my comfort zone if I’m about to do something There is a bit of a you know, like I’m but I went to what well Okay, so I’m invited to speak at the United Nations and demonstrate havening for curing depression, right? And I got 45 minutes. Now that is going in, right? But everyone’s overrunning, they have a hard out, they come and they say Doug’s a mechanic, you’ve got 20 minutes. I went and my wife said don’t do the demonstration just to get up and talk and I thought I even I was you know you’ve got all these neuroscientists and ambassadors and you know all these various dignitaries there I thought and it’s been televised I thought I just got to do this. And scared as I was, I got up, I did it, and it worked. But I can’t say that I wasn’t frightened doing that. I mean, some of the abuses of psychology in politics worries me right now. I think that there’s some really inappropriate things going on with the use of profiling and psychographics and the messaging that is very emotive and tantamount to brainwashing on occasion. So that’s why people are so upset about Brexit, so upset about Donald Trump or whomever, whatever. But politics has become very divisive. And so people believe it’s the end of the world if we stay in the EU or it’s the end of the world if we don’t. And probably neither is true.

1:06:13 Because they’re using psychotech in the wrong way. They are. Yeah. And so, or they’re using it, you know, in information warfare, I think it’s acceptable. If you can convince somebody, you know, not to be a radical or to, you know, to be some sort of bad person with words rather than a bullet, that’s probably a good thing.

1:06:31 But it worries me. That frightens me, the misuse of that. I’m trying, what else frightens me? I suppose letting people down, I just, I really don’t like doing that. If I think I’m going to, I feel terrible about it, you know?

1:06:50 I mean, I try not to, when I’m working with somebody, I try and be compassionate, but there’s a distinction we make, empathy and compassion. Because if you get too empathetic, you get too tied up in the problems with the person that you’re hurt, you’re trying to help, it can leave you stuck as well. So you’ve got to be compassionate and professional. And so I really don’t want to let people down, But I I try and and so I get a bit worried like that my mind will rest or sometimes I’ll I think I put all this work into this project and it’s not going to work And so all this book is going to turn out terrible So, you know, I don’t have any I used to be phobic of the dentist and dogs, but I’m not any longer Use your own techniques on yourself. I did. Yeah, if I keep my phobias and and overall I feel optimistic about the future, because the time we’re in right now is called Weiqi, which is by the Chinese.

1:07:41 It’s two symbols, danger, opportunity, and we’ve got tremendous opportunity in terms of where we’re going technologically. I mean, if you look at what’s going to be happening with, say, the marriage of human physiology and cyber technology fairly soon, we’re going to go through an evolutionary jump from which we can never return, by the way, and it could be amazing, certainly, And if you look at stem cells, at nanotechnology, all of this stuff, it’s as long as it’s because we can’t quite predict how some of this stuff’s going to end up. But I’ve got a feeling it’ll be overall, it’ll be good.

1:08:12 It doesn’t mean all the problems in the world will disappear, but we’ll certainly be able to enrich our lives and develop as a species in a fascinating way. Or we might screw it all up. There was an interesting study a few years ago, the Cambridge Project, where these smart Our guys, our ladies, smart chaps, and chaps are asked, what are the three biggest threats to humanity? Nuclear weapons, rogue biotech, and top of the list, AI, because with artificial intelligence, it’s not that it exponentially learns.

1:08:48 It begins to, it wants to know what it doesn’t know, which is not the same really as way the human being thinks. So it’ll allow, obviously, it’ll allow intelligence, us, for want of a better word. And people go, whoa, whoa, whoa, that terminator thing, that won’t happen and we can have a kill switch. Well, of course, it will figure out who’s got the kill switch. I’m putting things very simplistically.

1:09:08 Are you concerned about AI? Yes. But I’m also, I think it’s wonderful. It’s one of those things that we need to, we really need to think through, if you like. So, you know, I- But is it too late?

1:09:20 That’s what some people say. I mean, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg were both scrapping about this at the moment, aren’t they? And on the one hand, it could be, it’s so brilliant, but at the same time, the same way, the same, this is why people worried about the stem cells. What if we create problems further down the line that we didn’t have the foresight to think about? And so, whilst that is such an amazing opportunity to be able to take any cells and program to be any cells so that we can regenerate our heart and our liver and all sorts of things like that.

1:09:54 We could also be causing problems further down the line that we haven’t thought of. Who do you follow? People like Elon Musk? Who are the five people in the world that fascinate you the most? Fascinate me.

1:10:04 Or say crazy things that you just have to keep an eye on. Well, I suppose I’m fascinated by my friend Simon Cowell. He’s just so brilliant. I’m fascinated, I find Keith Richard very interesting. I’ve never met him, but I loved his biography.

1:10:20 I think he’s terrific. I Was a very big fan of Roger Moore. I used to love Roger. He was so wonderful tonight Did you know him? Oh, yes, I did him very kind a kind man funny, you know And like other actors of that generation Michael Caine funny very grateful for what they’ve achieved. I find Richard Bandler endlessly fascinating. He’s he’s the most unique and interesting Probably the most interesting person I’ve ever met. I find him fascinating, you know, so I’m trying to think who else is that some of some of people you wouldn’t know I mentioned general general lamb earlier He’s um, he’s just a brilliant brilliant person very clever very intuitive and You know an absolute genius soldier you mentioned Chinese philosophy and you know You’ve always had a fascination with kind of Eastern ideas and meditation yoga. Is that something you look to a lot?

1:11:16 Whether it comes to their symbols and new years and thoughts and how did that come about? Well, you know the Buddha was not a god He was a man who perfected himself, which I think is very noble And I like a lot of the because Zen Buddhism isn’t a religion. It’s a tradition and I found Zen Buddhism and in particular the meditation that my friend Gempo Roshi developed big-mind to be very helpful And so he’s able to in a matter of minutes get people into these these extraordinary states which they can map now in these image-resonancy chambers.

1:11:49 What they do is they take some seasoned meditator of 20 years and they map his patterns. And then they take someone off the street who’s never meditated and you drop kicks them into the Somali-Satori state. So you could imagine, half the Zen world think he’s great, because he’s out there teaching it to plumbers and accountants and people like that. There’s another half who have been sitting in Lotus for 20 years who are mad as hell with him. But I find him, because again, he’s a bit of a maverick.

1:12:15 He’s an interesting guy. I like, I really like Buddhism, in particular Zen Buddhism, and I found it very interesting, even though, see, I’m not an atheist, I believe in God, but I’m a recovering Catholic. And I have no time for the Catholic Church whatsoever. And I don’t think God would have much time for the men in the black dresses either. Is this recently, or you’ve been way down with that for a while?

1:12:36 No, I went to Catholic school, and I thought this is an entirely ungodly place. Yeah, there was there was a lot of I wasn’t sexually abused but you know some of my friends were and and by the way It was a very violent every day was a fight, you know, and so I’ve no love for the Catholic Church You know, it’s a corporation as far as I’m concerned. However, my mother likes going to church So if it does something for her then, you know, I must respect that but you know I had this conversation with Richard Dawkins who’s probably the world’s most famous atheist and I said, why don’t you just be agnostic?

1:13:10 He goes, no, you know, I basically he said look, I’m not saying you don’t believe in God I I just haven’t seen any proof yet and I suppose I don’t believe it in a magic man in the sky, which is what Richard, you know is sort of pointing out Hey, don’t blindly follow stuff, you know, make your own mind out in question and I don’t believe in that but I believe in something greater than myself But this isn’t some accident and you know, if there’s so much creation there must be a creator or I believe in good and evil, and I pray every day, I give thanks though. Sometimes I pray for something, I say, please help me with this, but I usually say, thank you for my fantastic life, for my health, for my friends, for all the opportunities that I have, thank you. And that’s to the higher power, or to God, or whatever you wanna call it.

1:13:57 I recently had Dr. Rupert Sheldrake in here, who has a book called Science and Spiritual Practices, and he actually took me on a pilgrimage of churches in London last Sunday for eight hours. We walked from the Tower of London to Westminster Abbey and went through like 18 churches. And he believes that the spiritual practices are very important to what it is to be a human. And then the religion, maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.

1:14:18 So I understand what you mean about your mom. Just some of these practices getting together and singing and paying homage and pilgrimage can actually fill holes in our souls. Yes, I think it’s true. I think there’s no doubt that many of the sort of fundamentals of religion are good. If you look, Jesus was about kindness, right?

1:14:39 And so, I mean, the only thing is there’s kind of a lot of guilt in there, some of these religions, to keep you going back in and become a good franchisee. But, you know, I love Rupert Sheldrake. I think his work was revolutionary. And those scientists said his book should be burned, didn’t they? I mean, there’s a proper heretic.

1:14:55 Yeah, I mean- He was here last week and that was a big moment for him because he was top of the class in Cambridge, massive future, the science delusion came out and his professors were saying, you don’t wanna do this. Yeah, I know, Cambridge Don, who went against the system. But if you look at a lot of the evidence on the psychic phenomenon, awkward as it is, or anomalies, I believe they like to call it, you’ve got to remember that science is only good if it’s got a date on it.

1:15:19 Light is either particle or wave depending upon the century you’re born in. And it happens to be both. Once the Earth was flattened, then it was round. So I like science, but not everything fits through the null set hypothesis. You can’t put love under a microscope.

1:15:34 So even though I consider myself a scientist, I’m not necessarily attached to, I try not to be attached to a rigid set of beliefs. I like to interrogate things and be benevolently skeptical. But yeah, Rupert’s a great example of somebody who’s pushed the boundaries. He took a lot of flak for it in its day. In fact, we did some experiments at my house where I hypnotized some people downstairs and I would be upstairs and we had an onion, We had a lemon, we had some cheese, some chocolate, and something, and he would then roll a dice and randomly get one, then phone me and say, and you go, number three or something, and I would eat the chocolate, but he kept eating the onion and the lemon all the time.

1:16:15 Anyway, the people downstairs would say what they thought I was tasting, and way above chance, they were able to say it was a sour taste and it was this. So, you know, I like some of these kind of slightly edgy experiments that step outside the normal confines of what we would call scientific. Yeah, I mean, I was an MIT engineer, and the science delusion, once you’re brought up in it, it’s so rigid, you don’t wanna look at anything else, because it questions your whole foundation.

1:16:43 And that’s not what science is. Science should all be about the evidence, and doing that, so. Well, and also, I think, if you have, we all like to feel that we know where we’re at, where reality is, and somebody comes along and challenges that, it’s uncomfortable. And so I can see why some people almost irrationally get so upset when somebody suggests that, you know, just like some of the experiments Dean Radin did into luck and into, I mean one of the most fascinating ones he did was he got people to make a little voodoo doll and he’d stick it in a different building, stick the person on a polygraph which measures any minute changes in mind and body, they’d perform a hypnotic induction on the voodoo doll and at the same time the person relaxes in the other building and you know similar sorts of experiments the experiments with twins where they put a twin on a polygraph and then they put one in another building and they either give them an electric shock or let off a starter pistol and they jump and the other twin gets a you know jump on the polygraph at that exact moment so this one’s there well we’re gonna find out what in a hundred years time are we gonna finally understand oh I think we’ll understand more of it but not Not necessarily by studying in laboratories, but people like Rupert Sheldrake have done it, you know, within scientific confines, you know, he did that experiment where people in the gallery, they’ve got a one-way mirror, they all look at the back of the head of

1:18:11 One person, and they either scratch their head or they turn around, you know, more than chance would allow. Yeah. It’s very interesting stuff. Yeah. What keeps you awake at night?

1:18:20 Well, sometimes, like everyone, I get a bit of sleep disruption. You know, if I’m usually if I haven’t done so if I if I haven’t done something and it’s bothering me I think you know, I haven’t really thought this one through this and this and this and this or Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night particularly when I’m finishing a book I’ve got a download and then I know I have to go off and write and then bam I can then go back to sleep but Yeah, I sometimes or you know, if I’ve done something like occasionally, you know, so I’ve had an argument with somebody and they’re a friend And I’ll go, nowadays I’ll go, what was my part in this? Maybe if I’ve got a guilty feeling, maybe I should apologize.

1:19:02 Something like that. Those are the sorts of things. Or occasionally I have a stress dream. I used to get this recurring dream that I was back in the days of radio, still working in the radio station, and I’ve got one record in the studio. And so I’ve got to get to the record library and get some more, but as I get to the door, that record runs out.

1:19:21 Go back and play it again, and it goes on and on and on and on and on, you know. So sometimes I have a nutty, I had this nuttiest dream the other night. My wife said, I had a terrible stress dream the other night, and I said, well, what was it? She went beddings and air crashes. I said, I had one too. I was running a dating agency with Elvis Presley. She’s laughing or something like that. I said, it wasn’t funny, right, because we were in Blackpool in the 1970s, and we kept getting these Polaroids out, and I said, so I think These two would be suitable.

1:19:49 And he goes, what are you talking about, boy? These balls ain’t suitable. And he had all these thuggy guys on him. Are you making fun of the king? I went, oh no, no, no.

1:19:56 I thought I was gonna get beaten up. So some of my stress dreams are really bizarre and surreal. Can we learn from those? Well, you know, actually there was, once upon a time, I was a friend of mine who’s, he’s, he does all the Jungian analysis of the dreams. And when I was decided I wanted to leave radio Become a hypnotist. It was an interesting. I had a dream one night that I went into capital radio where I worked and Adolf Hitler was there with a capital radio t-shirt on and he was putting his records away and I said, oh I said Oh, hello. You must be mr. Hitler the new DJ and he went yes. Yes, you know Yes, I said how the house the show’s going. He goes. Oh, I was a music is good You know, but he says every time I opens the phone lines People go bring up Sephora somebody threatened to kill me the other night, you know And I thought this dream was so nuts. I so I went I said to my friend who what is it?

1:20:51 He said, okay, think about it. You are thinking of changing career You know, you can think of Hitler in whatever way you think of he’s a Mesmeric character And so in simple terms said I think your way of life as you know It is gonna be killed off and there’ll be a new way of life and that’s what I think it means so sometimes Kind of makes sense So, you know, some of my dreams are fairly bizarre and then some of them are just as like everybody else’s, you know They’ve got there’s absolutely no rhyme or reason that occasionally I get one where I’m James Bond. So it’s great. That’s cool Are you Roger Moore James Bond or you’re just you James Bond? Yeah me, but I’m bond, you know, but yes You Roger would be my favorite bond. Yeah And what about Freud and Jung in psychotherapy, you’re not a big fan of those yeah Well, not so much young no, but Freud you see, you know So I think he sent psychology down some bad parts.

1:21:45 He made some contribution, there’s no doubt, and he’s now referred to as an important historic figure because so many of his theories are bullshit. But he was taking enough cocaine to kill a small horse and faking his experiments and believe we all want to fuck our own mothers. Now where I come from, that’s called a pervert. So I have much time for it. And his idea that basically you sit and you just talk it all through all the time, and just get people to go over everything bad that’s ever happened to him, that in some cases getting stuff off your chest can help.

1:22:17 But if you just keep going back over the bad stuff, it’s reinforcing it. It’s like taking someone with a broken leg and throwing them down the stairs until they feel better. So I think that a lot of the Freudian ideas were very, and still are, very unhelpful. This whole pressure cooker idea of, we’ve got to get all the emotions out, darling. No, maybe not.

1:22:36 Maybe we can just feel good without having to endlessly abreact for ages. So Jung, I think, was much more sensible. But really, I’m of the sort of modern psychological thinking, I believe in the whole positive psychology. And I’m not particularly interested in institutional old-fashioned psychology because I didn’t find it useful. Right.

1:22:58 What will the Paul McKenna obituary read? I don’t want to get dark. What what will they say about you? Well, hopefully some nice things Hopefully he lived to a ripe old age

1:23:12 There’s a saying in special forces, there’s only two It really important decisions in life who you partner with that’s who you marry and how you’re gonna die It’s how you’re gonna die depends on how you’re gonna live and you know where and when etc So I would hope of old age, but the obituary I would hope would say he was, well, I hope they’d say I was kind. I made a positive difference to the world. You know, touch the lives of people, left a message and a legacy that, you know, continues and maybe put to some extent inspired other people.

1:23:46 You know, sure, he was human. He got it wrong sometimes. You know, he wasn’t, you know, he wasn’t some guru. He was just a, he was a bloke from North London, you know, who tried his best and actually made something of his life, had a sense of purpose, because I love that phrase from Viktor Frankl, the brilliant psychiatrist who survived Auschwitz, who said, purpose is the cornerstone of good mental health. And I think, yeah, he was a man with purpose who made a difference.

1:24:16 I hope he would say something along those lines. And for the next 40 years, what are we gonna see from you? Well, that’s kind of you to say, yeah, 40, it could be around that. Yeah, I mean, I’m 55 now. You know, I mean, I did toy with the idea of retiring, or certainly semi-retiring, and everyone went, oh, forget it, Paul, with mind like yours, you know, you’ll last about a week, you know.

1:24:38 What are you gonna do, go play golf or something? And so, I certainly will continue to do these live events. You know, I will absolutely be working more with PTSD, severe trauma, depression, and making popular the new psychosensory therapies like Havening, like NLP, hypnosis, championing those and bringing them more into mainstream psychology and psychiatry. I hope that they’re more embraced within psychology and medicine. Also, I probably will continue to write some things and present some sorts of TV shows and podcasts.

1:25:19 But also, when I look at some of my friends who’ve retired recently, they seem to be going great restaurants, going on vacation, you know, hanging out with fun people and posting it all over social media. I go, God, yeah, actually, maybe I’ll be doing more of that. Traveling, you know, spending time with my wife, I’ll certainly be watching more binge TV. And, you know, I really do quite like, when I get into a great binge TV show, it’s It’s just, it’s fantastic.

1:25:50 So, and also, I like meeting interesting people. You know, and that’s not necessarily famous people. That can be people who have, because everyone’s interesting to me in a sense, but some people are super interesting because of their take on life or what they do, you know, or because they ain’t like anybody else, you know, so there’ll be that. And I would like to think that maybe, What I’d like to do is to, if I can, this is going to sound grand, right, is I mentioned earlier about the meditation, is get more people into optimum neurophysiological states and high states of consciousness around the planet.

1:26:30 And so hopefully, with more people feeling good, it sends out a peace-filled effect and that cancels out some of the fear-based aggression which I believe is a big problem that concerns me right now. I’m with you on that. That’s what we’re trying to do. Yeah. Just to get these messages out there and get everybody going to a higher level of consciousness.

1:26:50 Yes. It’s a great long-term vision. Will you ever make a movie? You know, somebody just made a movie of me and Richard doing seminar. I am making a little movie.

1:27:03 What it is, is it explains all of what I’ve just said. Some scientists explain this. And then in seven minutes, I’ve taken Gempo’s Big Mind technique. So you could watch that and go into Big Mind real quick, in and out. And so if people got, used that all around the world, because millions of people, you know, listened to my trances on social media all over the world in different languages.

1:27:27 So I was hoping if I could get millions of people feeling good for free, you know, through a little movie, something like that, then that would be a good thing. But, yeah, I mean, I would love to write, say, you know, something like a James Bond movie. I mean, that would be, you know, I don’t know how to write fiction, you know, but see, what’s going to happen in the future is, with the, now the Deep Fake and the CGI and everything, you could make a 1960s Bond, a 1970s Roger Bond, an 80s Piers Brosnan Bond, et cetera, in parallel with whoever the current Bond is.

1:28:06 I have several because I know I mean in the sense you’ve got that with show with movies like Kingsman is very much Any over-the-top Roger Moore James Bolton, isn’t it? Yeah, and it’s hard to get that 60s 70s feel, isn’t it? Well, I think you’ll be surprised with with the deep fake and the the CGI Now it you won’t be able to tell the difference. There’s no reason you can’t produce a piece of fiction Look at Graham Hancock. He goes from fiction and nonfiction all the time. Yeah, I do I never I haven’t given any thought Although, well actually that’s not true, I had thought about it, you know, but I hadn’t really given serious time then.

1:28:40 So yeah, I don’t know, that’s a very interesting idea, making a movie. I mean, you know, there’s so many things, you know, could make something just really daft, you know, I mean, I never cease to be amazed with what my mind comes up with. And what’s happening is now, oh style of television has changed, the fact that we can even sit and have a conversation like this and it be potentially viewed by people all over the world on their phones and their computers, you know, is a real game changer.

1:29:09 You know, it used to be you had to come on and within a few minutes tell you anecdotes and you know, and it had to be within a sort of a format whereas this is much more conversational. I really, you know, I like this sort of format. Yeah, it’s called the long tail, I think, where you can customize content to people all over the world and you can get that one million people, the right ones who want this thing and it’s the perfect thing for them. This is how you know NPR have the most people listening to their podcast. They have 43 Different niche categories of longtail that adds up to 100 million people a week at the moment Yeah, and your podcast will get you access to all these fascinating interesting people because it’s a great way to say why don’t you be on My show and yes I mean I always liked that show the lifestyles of the rich and famous and I thought a more Psychological version of that might work. Well Robin Leach. Where is he? Yeah, I don’t I don’t know I mean, I I just loved all the opulence of it all but but also I kind of Yeah, I like that the way you need sort of you’d learn a bit about the people, you know And you’d you know, I also I love seeing inside people’s houses, you know when those magazines arrived from the estate agents So that’s kind of like a you know, my pornography is looking That’s so that’s gorgeous You know, I’ve just come up with a new format. I love it. Yeah lifetimes is rich and famous

1:30:25 Some you know meets a sort of psychological deconstruction of this person, you know So I’d hate that to have to go and spend time with some billionaire on their yacht or you know Some ex-president, you know in their mention or some genius, you know businessmen, you know on their jet or whatever it is Yeah, that would be terrible. These are two Netflix potential pilots. We’ve already talked about here on the show So I’m calling my agent

1:30:50 Paul I always finish with a few questions I want to ask you yeah, if I could give you a special phone and you could ring up the 20 year old Paul McKenna Yeah, that young man a bit of advice. Maybe he’s a pirate radio in at this point What would you tell him based on everything? You know now? Right? She’s a great question and a few years ago Ryan I was in my years ago back in the it was like it was 1990 I think was I went to Miami with friend of mine We hired a sports car and we stayed in this little hotel It was nice right there on South Beach, and I thought, great.

1:31:23 And a couple of years ago, I went with my wife, and I walked down to South Beach, and I said, you know, I was standing right there, like 25 years ago, or something like that. And what would I say to me of then? And the first thing is, I would say, it all turns out OK. Now that doesn’t mean there ain’t going to be some big challenges. You’ll wonder at times, am I going to be able to make it, right?

1:31:53 I mean, you know, really, am I going to be able to ever get through this? It will be so awful. And yet you will. And as a result, you’ll become stronger and wiser. Now, I’m not one of those people who thinks, if it doesn’t, clearly it makes you stronger, because no, it can weaken you.

1:32:08 There’s no doubt. But I would say, also, I’d tell that younger me, be kinder to yourself. I mean, I’ve done this process where I’ve gone into the future and I looked from the end of my life, look back and go, what do I wish I’d done more of and what do I wish I’d done less of? And I got, I wish I’d loved more, laughed more, been less competitive with everyone else and actually enjoyed the ride rather than waiting for the next, next, next. And so, you know, when people, it was a study done a few years ago, people in old people’s homes, they were asked, you know, what do you wish you’d done more of and less of?

1:32:42 Basically the less of. Worried less and I think um Yeah, I think I’d say to me don’t worry all turns out okay You know, you’re actually even though you don’t know it. You’re not a bad guy. You’re actually you’re a good guy overall That doesn’t mean everything you do is good because occasionally you might do something bad pull, but overall You you come, you know with a good intent. What was he like 20 year old Paul?

1:33:08 Oh, well, first of all, he wanted to change the world, you know, I mean and thought I could I was invincible you know, I was probably reckless, you know, I was highly creative, very ambitious, and you know, time’s probably a bit of a maniac, but I was, you know, I was also fascinated by everything, you know, also quite kind of in awe of my elders, you know, the people who were the big broadcasters of the time. I wondered how I would ever be as good. In In fact, it was very interesting, a couple of years ago, I said to Richard Bando, I said, you know, Matt, no matter how good I get, it just annoys me that I’ll never be quite as good as you.

1:33:52 And he said to me, he goes, but you don’t want to be me, Paul. I said, what do you mean? He goes, you want to be the best version of you. I went, how? He’s so clever, isn’t he?

1:34:03 In that single sentence, he reframed it, and I went, that’s it. I want to be the best version of me. So I try and be now the best husband I can be to my wife. I try and be the best when I do an event. Like tomorrow, if there’s hundreds of people that have come and I’m a good employee, I’m going to try as hard as I can to get them into a great place and make their lives good.

1:34:28 And so yeah, that younger me was probably a bit more selfish, was definitely more selfish. a bit more nervous and paranoid, not as confident as I am now, and probably not a little bit self-hating from all the Catholicism, you know, from the sort of all the endless guilt stuff. And so I think that was the negative. On the positive, you know, I definitely, I was out to change the world. Yeah.

1:35:01 In a big way. Yeah. Second part of that question is best advice you’ve ever received. to come from your mother, your father, or a mentor along the way, or Richard, or Simon. It’s something that sticks with you.

1:35:12 Do you know, I’ve asked many people this question and I mean, if I can, treat a bit and give you some of the answers other people have given me. I know I’ll give you mine. I mean, David Geffen, I asked him that question and he said, know when to leave the party, right? And I said, what do you mean by that? He went, well, I could have stayed with the Eagles.

1:35:38 They deconstructed everything. But he realized it had peaked. And I know that Simon Cowell said to me, well, take your time over things. A lot of people think, I’ve got to do it tomorrow. Get rich quick and all that.

1:35:51 Take your time and enjoy it. Nicholas Holt said to me, even those young guys, a smart guy, he said, somebody gave him this piece of advice last year. It was on a set. They just lost their partner for 40 years. And this lady said, love and be loved, which I think is really nice.

1:36:09 I like the Dalai Lama’s kindness is my religion. I like Gandhi’s, my life is my message, or be the change you wanna see in the world. I’d say you get more of what you focus on. So my friend, Mikey Neils, the life coach, says if you just go and tell a lamp post your plans every day, they’re more likely to happen. And so I try, you have to think about what could go wrong.

1:36:33 You can be prepared for it and avoid it. But I tend to focus on what it is I want. I move towards success rather than away from failure, I mentioned earlier. And I think what you practice, you get good at. And so I try every day to enjoy it, the specialness and the uniqueness of it.

1:36:54 Because I know that one day it’ll end. And I’m loving life so much. You know, I’m one of those people who doesn’t like the party to end really. But I’ve gotten used to knowing when to leave now. Right, last part of that is to the 20 year old that’s listening to us right now, watching to us.

1:37:10 What advice do you give to them? Well, it would be all of that. And it would be, you know, and actually I’d go over and I’d say, hi, I’m from the future. I wanna tell you that it all works out okay. And many of the things, the doubts you have or any of the lack of self worth or anything that you don’t like about yourself, et cetera, et cetera, it gets sorted out pretty much.

1:37:36 And that doesn’t mean that everything, that you never have any problems ever again, but you’re in for a really exciting ride. You’ve got no idea how amazing it’s gonna be. I mean, right now you won’t be a disc jockey. You’ve got no idea. You’re gonna be world famous.

1:37:51 You’re gonna travel the world. You’re gonna meet interesting people. You’re gonna have some of the most amazing experiences. You’re gonna enjoy life to the full. You’re gonna have tough times as well, but you’re gonna come through them and you’re gonna make a positive contribution to the world.

1:38:04 And that is a life worth living. That’s what I would say to the younger me. And then anybody at that age should just be excited that they could have a potential future like that. Yeah, and then I’d also make sure I put it in my own head in a hypnotic way. Right, right, right.

1:38:18 And with all that excitement as well, so. Yeah, absolutely, yes. Well, the podcast is called the Positivity Podcast. I think you can watch it on iTunes, listen to it on iTunes. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:38:27 Wherever they do that. live events coming up in a bunch of the cities around the UK. What are those all about? What’s happening? Okay, well I do motivational events all the time.

1:38:38 I’ve got a number coming up, London, Birmingham, Manchester, Edinburgh, and one in Dublin. But, and I do a couple of events here in London with Richard Bandler every year. They, the ones I’ve got coming up, the three things that will change your destiny today. So, I walk out and go, Who here, you know, has some sort of block or some sort of trauma and wants to get over it? And as I mentioned earlier, so come and join me on the stage.

1:39:04 A few minutes later, they’re unburdened, they’re better. I turn, I do it to the audience. Who here wants to be clear about what it is they want from life? Who here thinks they’re unlucky, wants to feel more lucky? Who here wants to feel more motivated, more confident?

1:39:16 You know, that sort of thing. And I do it with individuals on the stage and I do it to the entire audience. I teach with Richard, we teach a weekend called the Secrets of Hypnosis, where we teach people all kinds of cool hypnosis stuff. We’re not teaching them to be hypnotherapists, but we’re teaching them educational change hypnosis. And we have a lot of fun doing it.

1:39:36 And no two seminars with Richard are ever the same. I teach, also Richard and I do an event called Get the Life You Want. And that’s all about getting over it, getting through it, getting to it, using NLP to design the kind of life you want. And many people these days spend more time making a list for the supermarket than they do their own life. And so it’s very much about getting clear about what it is you want and finding the power and the motivation to go for it.

1:40:08 And so those are two dynamic days that we do that. And so those are the events that I’ve got coming up. And, excuse me, I get hired by various sort of the like the mind body spirit well-being people to go and you know to do it to do an event like about confidence or about life transformation things like this and so I’m gonna continue doing those because I really do enjoy doing them and I think I’ve kind of got a hang of it now because some you know when I started out it was a bit hit and miss but now it’s they still the odd surprise I’ve never but I’m I think I’m fairly good at it now so different type of crowd different type of event well you know when I was Like 25 years ago, you know hypnotism was witchcraft and you know, I’ve trained over a hundred thousand people in hypnosis and NLP here in this country, you know, Richard and and and and so, you know There are now thousands of coaches and NLP people and hypnotherapists and now it’s well accepted in the culture And you know once upon a time it wasn’t and so I’d like to think that that becomes you know, NLP should be taught at school, you know I mean at school, I learned next to fucking nothing. It was just useless. I mean sure I learned how to write and I learned you know some basic math and that but you know I really you know, I didn’t learn much else that was of you some history actually was quite interesting to me but I learned to draw but um, you know, I really learned very much at all and

1:41:37 And now I learn a lot and of course, it’s easier to learn with the internet You know Bill Gates said about five years ago in five years time from now all the best Lectures by the best lectures in the world would be available for free on the internet And we got great things like TED talks and you know stuff like this and you know, so I think that some Yeah, I like learning now was before I think had a lot of blocks around it So I’m afraid I mean I used to read like two or three books a week, you know Now I get a lot of the information from online or you know, you just all you watch a video or if somebody’s really good I just track them down Somebody can do something. I want to learn to do I track him down and Politely pester them until they teach me how it is. They do it. Does anyone turn you down? Oh, yeah Sometimes people say no or they think it’s not learnable or whatever I go sure then can I just watch and I’ve just modeled, you know so I look at what it is they do with their mind the body and with the internal representations inside their head and I build and codify map and then I take away and sometimes I funk it up and You know, sometimes I have a problem and I overcome it and then I turn it into a product and so from my pain I can profit. Yeah, I could tell you really love teaching You love being there in the moment in the mix with people live and making it happen. Otherwise, you wouldn’t do these things

1:42:56 That’s right. Yeah. I mean my mother was a teacher. I mean they don’t wanted me to be a doctor but In a way. Yeah, that’s right. I’ve become a teacher I suppose but see I’m it’s really I’m trying to do it in a very entertaining way because when people are here in positive of neurophysiological states, they build better perceptual maps.

1:43:13 So, you know, I try and make it, I mean, you know, Richard’s hilarious. I mean, we call it stand-up therapy, what he does. But it’s a sort of edutainment. So it’s not a lecture. You know, sometimes you do need to have a slideshow in that, but I like to make it very interactive and very kind of, almost a little bit edgy, you know?

1:43:34 Yeah, I can tell, just like you. Paul, I just wanna thank you so much for everything you’ve done. I don’t know, over the last 20, 30 years. It’s epic stuff. This is the most fascinating interview I’ve ever seen of you, ever.

1:43:47 And so I think people get to know who you are and all these different fascinating parts about you. And again, you were my first contact with any type of NLP, mind control. I later went on to meditate. Two months later, I quit my job as a banker and I started London Real. But when I listened to that piece I played earlier, you were the early seeds in my head of me visualizing things and all that.

1:44:09 My mother was always into positive thinking you know Southern California and all that and you know You can do it Brian Rose you can do it You have to say that and you know this stuff that you have always put out is next-level stuff, you know And I really I really appreciate what it means a lot to me. Thank you very much I really appreciate that it’s my pleasure and the podcast is gonna change your life It literally changed mine and so I’m so excited that you’re excited about it and you’re getting such great response And I bet it’s gonna get better and I love how you’re you want to go find the most interesting people not always the most famous yeah and you will and the podcast is a great excuse to just get in there and ask people really hard questions which I couldn’t even ask you over dinner right now but now I have the permission and it’s right and it’s in these are great answers and so it’s an amazing phenomenon well you know it’s a bit of a learning curve for me as well because I mean half the star was talking about there I didn’t know that I knew it you know didn’t know it in that way and so you know I mean and I think you have a gift in that you know you you when I watch your podcast before you get people to give very candid answers you know, because you’re genuinely interested in other people.

1:45:07 So it’s been a real pleasure speaking with you today. No, it’s been my pleasure. I think everyone’s going to get a ton out of this. So wishing you all the best with the speaking engagements, life in London, walking the dog, the podcast, live events, all that stuff. And come see us again sometime.

1:45:20 Thanks, Brian. Oh, absolutely, I will do. God bless. Thanks.