Mark Wright - The Apprentice

Full transcript: Mark Wright on London Real

7:20 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Mark Wright, the entrepreneur, motivational speaker, and winner of the Apprentice UK television series in 2014. The Apprentice is a British reality game show where a group of aspiring entrepreneurs compete for a chance to win 250,000 pounds. Investment from business magnet, Lord Alan Sugar.

7:52 This investment became your digital marketing agency climb online with 1.5 million pounds of turnover and over 200 clients within its first year of trading, including brands like Groupon, Company Check, and Bweiser Insurance. Mark, welcome to London Real. Thank you. That was the best introduction I’ve ever had. You’re very welcome. I’m going to start selling these things.

8:12 You’re there. Unbelievable. I thought I should let people know about what the Apprentice is because maybe some people don’t know, but it started in the US with Donald Trump, right? So thanks to Donald Trump, you’re here now. Well, I don’t think Lord Sugar would be happy if we said that.

8:27 But yeah, I think Donald Trump pioneered the format. I think it was Mark Burnett, the guy that made Survivor. They got together. They said it was time we do a business show. And it was one of the top rated TV show in America for almost two years in terms of viewership.

8:44 So it was a very successful format in the US. Lord Sugar saw it on TV. I think his wife recommended that it be something that was good here in the UK. And the BBC got in contact with him and the rest is sort of history. A lot of seasons now, right?

8:59 It’s the 11th. They’ve done 11. 11 years, which is pretty unheard of for one show. Incredible. And it started on BBC Two.

9:08 And it was sort of low viewership. It was people weren’t sure on the concept after Series One. And then it just went from strength to strength. And now, BBC One, it’s probably getting around 9, 10 million views per episode and still one of their flagship programs. And I think they’ve got a few more years to come at least.

9:28 You told me about an incident earlier where you’re just having coffee here about you had to go present to some board and someone said to you right before, don’t worry, there’s 9 million people watching you. Yeah. What’s that like to be on a television show where, unlike most editing, they’re going to take the worst parts of what you do? It was, okay, it was really hard to describe. I’d never seen the show before.

9:51 I didn’t think it was… I’m from Australia. I didn’t know it was a big deal in the UK. I went along as a bit of a joke really for the tryouts, just as a good time to see what it was like to test myself against other people. I thought I’d just do it as a bit of fun.

10:05 Then you go on and I remember ringing my parents on Skype back in Australia and I said, I’ve got on this show called The Apprentice and they were kind of like, oh, that’s nice, love. And I said, no, I think it’s a really big show. And they were kind of like, sometimes I’m accused of not letting the truth get in the good way of a story. And they were kind of like, I’m sure it’s a big show. And then they came over when I made the finals and they go, wow, this is a big show.

10:28 So I think it was a bit of a realisation when you’re on the front of every paper, your Twitter following goes, I think I had 98 followers on Twitter, went to 80,000 and just everything just goes into sixth gear almost overnight. Did you think you were going to win the show when you went on the show? Without doubt. I never for one minute thought I wasn’t going to win. And I said to all my friends and family, I said, if I get through the first week, I’ll win the show because I went back when I got onto the show, I said to the producers, I’ve never seen it.

10:59 They said, well, you need to go watch some other episodes so you know what you’re in for. And I went in and watched some other series and I realised that the first week of the show is really unpredictable. But every week after that, Lord Sugar gets to know you can build a rapport with him, a personal rapport, and then you can go a long way because he gets to pick up on your personality. But the first week is unpredictable. So I thought if I can keep my head down in week one.

11:21 And then I do, I’ve never told anyone this, but I did something which I thought it made sense to me because if I’m going to do something, I read the instructions and I follow the instructions, right? I went and watched all of the series before me and I knew who won each series from Wikipedia and I watched the winner all the way through and I watched what they did, how they interacted in the boardroom, how they spoke with Lord Sugar, how they interacted with the other candidates. And I thought, well, nine times before me, that’s worked and I picked up patterns in the winners and that’s what I did.

11:54 And I sort of, I don’t know if that’s the wrong or the right way, but it made sense to me, you know, if someone’s done it successfully before, if you go and do the same thing, you need to get the same results or near enough. How many contestants go in and then how long is the process? And then the winner gets this quarter million pound investment and you go into business with Lord Sugar, that’s a big commitment. Yeah, so when it started, I think it had 12 contestants or candidates, they call them.

12:21 In the first year, they had 12, then in the latter years, they had 14, then they went to 16 and my year was the 10th anniversary year, they had 20. And I remember sitting in there and they had the normal 16 and I was looking around and sizing everyone up, like to a level, I saw people behave how the human, I’ve never seen humans behave. We sat in the boardroom and Lord Sugar picked the phone up, he said, right, I’ve got a surprise for you and he brought another four in and mathematically I’m thinking, shit, this isn’t good, you know, like I thought 16 was enough, 20’s another multiple now, so it’s the most candidates they’ve ever had, that means less face time with him, you’ve got more obstacles to overcome, more personalities.

13:02 And he’s watching you when he does that in front of you to see how you react. And then everyone else is watching you to see how you react and, you know, anybody showing weakness is going to pay for it. It’s a 14 week poker game, that’s the best way I can describe it and people say to me, oh, how did you win, you know, can you give any advice? I did most of my work when the cameras were off. I think that I never dropped the ball for a minute, I would never, you know, when we’re in the house and we’re resting in the evenings, I wasn’t, you know, relaxing, talking about my personal life, what I do on the weekends, I was on point the whole time, I was in the game the whole time, because essentially like you said in your introduction, it’s a game show, and when you forget that and you let down too much of your guard, because things were said in the house in the evenings, which were then used on camera in the boardroom and against you in that day, so I used everything to my advantage, I really took it seriously because I really wanted the opportunity more than anyone, and I think that’s where I won it because at 8 o’clock or 8.30 at night, people would go and watch TV or they’d have a glass of wine, I’d be in bed, and I sort of got a reputation in the house called Mr. Serious because 8.30, 9 o’clock had come round, I’m in bed, I’ve had a shower, I’m relaxing, these other guys are up talking, they’re talking about how successful they are in business,

14:17 You know, how much money they’ve made, all of these different things, and I just, I really took it seriously and I really wanted it more than anyone else, and even though I got a bit of a reputation in the house at the time, I think that that reputation filtered back through to Lord Sugar, and you could see it in my face each day. What is he looking for on that show, like who is the contestant that he wants, obviously he’s putting real money into it, it’s his money on the line, his reputation on the line, and potentially a successful business in the future. Well, I don’t think Lord Sugar’s ever invested in a business plan, I really don’t think he invests in the business plan, I believe that myself or the other winners that have been before me could have taken any business plan on that show, I think he really builds a rapport and sees something in the individual which he invests in the person, I think, you know, as I’m getting older and I’m working more in business and with my staff that work for me, they could, my good staff could come to me with any idea and I’d give them a go because I know the make up of that individual, just as like a bad staff member could come to me and I’m not going to really take on their idea because I know their traits as a person and I think 14 weeks is a long time to get to really know someone and they put you through so many different circumstances and try you in different environments that he goes, right, that’s someone,

15:37 I know their strengths and weaknesses but I know how they react when they’re under pressure, I know when they’re weak, what sort of, you know, just their reactions and how they deal with stress and I mean the tryouts for the show are incredibly, just the things they put you through and the stress and the environment they put you in, I’ve never been in anything like it and I think that there’s obviously a lot of theory that goes into it and some of the people that that show’s produced have become a fantastic business people. And it all came down to you and another woman, I think, at the end of the show and I remember Lord Sugar said, you know, she had a great product and he said he’s a product guy but he went ahead and invested in you anyways. Is that, again, going back to investing in the person or is it also because you were going to go on to digital marketing and maybe he hadn’t invested in that before?

16:27 The answer is I don’t know and it’s probably a question for Lord Sugar but I just saw almost something in him that wanted to invest in me and I think Bianca who was in the final with me, she was a very capable business woman. Her idea was brilliant, she’s gone on to do very well with that idea but I think there was something that I had with Lord Sugar that he saw in me and said, right, whatever this guy touches, even if it’s not this idea, he’s going to make something work and I can probably work with him to make him what was something good into something great. And, you know, I do a lot of speaking and a lot of talks now and I always say to people, you know, I got £250,000 out of that show for my business and at the time I thought that was a lot of money but what I’ve now learnt is I would do that show for free if I could have the face time with Lord Sugar that I’ve had again because what I’ve learnt about business and what I’ve learnt just about being a businessman is worth more than £250,000. It’s worth, I don’t know what it’s worth, it’s been so valuable that I could go and start another business now and it would just be as successful as this one from what I’ve learnt.

17:34 Talk to me about having a mentor. You know, everyone asks me, Brian, how do I get a mentor? I’ve been lucky enough to have a couple that have come through this show but it’s a weird, strange relationship. I find the best mentors that word is never used between the two individuals. You obviously found one in Lord Sugar. You met him through the show but what do you say to people when they ask you, how do I find a mentor like you?

17:56 I think when you meet someone who really blows you away and inspires you, you need to be around that person a lot more. You know, Lord Sugar, when I’m in his presence, I’m listening, I’m like a sponge, I’m listening to everything he’s saying, watching how he, I’m like a sponge, I’m watching the way he moves, how he deals with certain situations, how he speaks. You know, they say you become a reflection of the five people you hang around most and I really believe that if you hang around with people that don’t really care about money, they’ve got no urge to get out of bed and make something of themselves.

18:28 It’s only a matter of time before that’s the type of person you become and I’ve been exposed to the other apprentice winners, to millionaires and billionaires through Lord Sugar and his board and his team of directors, accountants, lawyers and I’m sitting in meetings talking about sums of money, business actions and circumstances which I’m a small, I’m a kid from a small town in Australia, you know, to talk about £100 million to me is unfathomable. Now we’re talking about it on a monthly, daily basis and I’ve just, it just changed the way I think about money, the way I think about business, the way I engage in a problem and you know, they often say the people that win the lottery, they often get a large sum of money and they lose it all and I now know why that is because money without training is useless. Training to create money is the key really.

19:20 So the best thing you got out of it was that relationship? Without a doubt, without a doubt. Wow. And what is it like to be mentored by Lord Sugar? You had to move to Essex. Yeah. Tell me about that process. He’s very hands on.

19:34 He, well, and rightly so. I think that Lord Sugar’s so passionate about the people he invests in and the companies he invests in and his own brand, you know, any businessman is passionate about their own brand and as we were talking about earlier, it becomes more than the money. You know, at the end of the day a man or a woman’s only got their legacy. You can’t take your money with you but when you die they’re going to remember, you know, the things you did and achieved and what you’ve built.

20:02 And the first thing he said to me is, where are you living? And I said, well, I live in Fulham. He said, well, that’s too far away from my office. You’ll need to move out to Essex. So I’m packed up my bags, moved out to Essex, only five minutes from his house and five minutes from his offices in Lawton.

20:18 Which people listening to us in the States, that’s kind of like moving from New York City out to Jersey. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like it’s the opposite move of you would think a 25, 26 year old guy would want to do. Yeah. You couldn’t think of anything worse.

20:30 You know, I was living in central London having a great time. But, you know, if he said jump, I was like, how high do you want me to jump here? Because when you want something and you’ve decided that that’s what’s going to happen, he could tell me what clothes to wear and I bloody wear them to be quite frank with you. Because he’s a guy that’s got, you know, I think he’s got 17 open directorships at the moment. All of his businesses are in profit. He’s making a lot of money.

20:56 And he’s valued as a fantastic guy in the community. So what is there not to follow, really? Because if I watch what he does, do what he says and learn, I’m 26 years old and he’s 70. So imagine what I can do in that space of time if I keep my head down and my bum up. And so you moved in five minutes away from where he lives to spend more time with him so he could watch you, train you.

21:22 And what was it like setting that business up? How often was he involved? The first year was, I’ll try not to swear, but it was bloody tough. It was hard, hard work. And even with Lord Sugar, even with The Apprentice, I actually think it made it harder to be completely honest with you.

21:41 Because you’re starting a business, I was a 25 year old starting a business in London, but when you start a business and you have no customers, you’ve got time to get the infrastructure in place. You’ve got time to really, when you make a mistake, it doesn’t go on the front of the newspaper. Everyone, when you win that show, wants you to fail, quite frankly, especially people in your own industry. And everyone was praying for me to fail. I remember doing a talk at an SEO convention.

22:07 I got booed onto the stage by 1,500 people. I’ll never forget it because I was the first person from the internet marketing industry to really make it on mainstream TV, if that makes sense, in the UK. And I think that people, especially from the SEO industry, found it really hard that I was the guy, because I’m not an SEO. I’m not a paid media specialist. I’m a sales guy with an interest in digital marketing.

22:32 And a lot of people thought I was professing to be something I wasn’t. What do you do when you get booed on the stage by 1,500 people? I got booed onto the stage at a convention called Brighton SEO. It’s the biggest convention for SEO in the country. I got booed onto the stage and I stood up and I said, look, I think everyone’s got it wrong. I said, I don’t know anything about SEO.

22:51 I have a love for SEO and a love for digital marketing, and I want to take it to businesses to show them what it can do for their business and how many leads it can generate and really change a business. But I’m not the guy doing the work. I’m the guy showing the customer how it works. And then I got a standing ovation coming off. So I think it was just, you know, I went on a show to entertain people, not to teach them about my industry.

23:15 And a lot of people take that show verbatim as they see it. They think that’s how it happened. But it’s edited for entertainment. And I think that a lot of people forget that. Back to Climb Online, that first year, it’s hard, because like you said, you’re under a microscope.

23:28 The papers want you to fail. The people in your industry hate the fact that you all of a sudden feel like you’re privileged or you have a special piece. So people are very hesitant to help you do business with you. It was tough. Yeah. So we opened on the 5th of January, and it was just me.

23:46 It was one desk, a laptop, and I go for it. 2015. 2015, 5th of January, 250,000 pounds in a brand new bank account, and a MacBook, and me on a chair. And it’s like, right… There should be a documentary movie about this.

24:01 I wish someone, I paid someone to follow me with a handheld camera all year because it was crazy. And I remember every second or third night, I’d be stood in the shower in the evening, and I’d have my hands on my head thinking, I don’t know if I can go on and if this is going to work because there’d be some situations cropper. I remember in our first month, we started to sell our first couple of deals, and we started to get some traction. I got two staff in. We really started to make some ground, and we’re getting started to turn some of the press around with some of the PR we were doing.

24:31 And we got sued by one of the biggest companies in the industry that turned over, I think they turned over $260 million a year. They sued us for trademark infringement, claiming they owed a certain word. And I remember calling Lord Sugar, and I said, you’re not going to believe that. We’ve just been sued by this company. He said, don’t worry about it, that’s completely fine.

24:51 And he gave me the advice. He told me exactly what to do, and he said, this is a really good sign. It’s kind of like David and Goliath. These guys are the big guys. And the fact that they were even on their radar is almost a compliment.

25:03 And we went on to win and sort it all out in the long run. But just that sort of being able to pick the phone up, like if I was on my own and you get sued, you’re thinking, God, here we go. We’re in trouble, but he’s been in a number of law cases. He told me who to call, what emails to write, how to deal with it. And we came out the other side without a scratch.

25:23 Yeah, one of my mentors, Mr. Dan Pena, also known as the $50 billion man, he says litigation is a business tool. He says it that calmly. It’s just it’s something that a company makes a logical decision. It’s not personal. It’s meant to make you emotional and do stupid things. That’s what it is.

25:40 I’ve never seen a man be more calm. And I remember the worst thing that happened, we built a website, right? And someone hacked the website, and we’re a digital marketing company. So what does every other digital marketeer out there want to do? Prove they can pull the apprentices website down.

25:56 So we got hit with what’s called a DDoS attack, denial of service. We were getting 25,000 spam attacks per second to our website. It brought the server down that we hosted the website on to the point where Lord Sugar’s companies used a certain hosting company for 25 years, coming up 25 years. The hosting company said we don’t want your business anymore because the attack is so severe it’s going to take down every website we have on our servers. And that’s about 25% of websites in the UK. The attack was that serious.

26:27 Now, when you’re a 25 year old, this is your first business you’re setting up. You don’t normally face these sorts of battles. So how did you make it through those first few weeks, the first couple of months? Did you ever think about packing it in? Were there options to quit? Or were you thinking, all right, the 250 will run out in a few months, I can go do something else.

26:47 I thought a lot, what if it doesn’t work? I never knew, I’m the excited guy that goes down with the ship. I’d never ever quit. I’d never walk out. I’d never, you know, cancel anything.

27:00 It was like, I’m going to go down with the ship with my reputation and everything, or I’m going to make it work. And I was in that office every night, you know, until all hours a night, sleeping there, eating there, doing whatever it took to make it work. And I learnt so much. You know, when I went on that show, The Apprentice, I thought I was the best businessman from sliced bread. If I could go back, I’d slap myself and say, you don’t know anything.

27:24 And now I’m excited about the future because I’ve realised I don’t know that much, but I’m learning every single day. And the more people like Lord Sugar I can surround myself with, the more business I can do, the more I’m going to learn. And the more successful, ultimately, my company will be and I’ll be in the future. When was the tipping point last year where you were like, okay, we’re going to make it? Because like one and a million pounds for the first year of any business is pretty incredible.

27:48 No matter that you’re famous or you have Lord Sugar as a backing, that’s still a lot of money. When did you know? Was it like this account in March or April or June where I’m like, okay, we have something here? It was kind of, it was in October last year and it was kind of late really to make all the money. But the first few months, I felt like we were doing 20 hours a day work for absolutely no money or no, we weren’t gaining any ground or any better reputation than we had.

28:17 Then I just made a couple of changes to the business in the way that we price our products, the staff that we had employed and just took a couple of risks. I overhired staff and I remember saying to Lord Sugar, I’ve got about double the staff we need, but that means that in the future when we have the business, we’re going to be able to overservice the business we bring on. And he said, well, I hope you’re right because otherwise we’re going to be looking at a pretty serious loss here.

28:40 And sure enough, I just kept having faith. I kept going out. I was on the road, you know, doing a thousand miles a week in the car, driving up and down the country, speaking at anywhere. They’d put a microphone in front of my face, seeing every single customer I could myself. We have a policy where I meet all of our customers personally or I give them a call at the end of their first week of being a customer, trying to give that personal service back to an industry that have forgotten about the customer.

29:08 And it was hard, hard work. And we got there in the end. And in October, all of a sudden, the lead started to pour in, people inquiring for business. The sales started to pour in. And I thought, this is pretty good. I think we went from one point seventy customers to two hundred in a month.

29:26 And I thought, right, we’ve got this. We’ve got something here. But Lord Sugar didn’t really react until our last board meeting that’s just been a month ago when he looked at, you know, we’re coming up to the end of the financial year. We looked at some of the customers. We brought on some of the biggest companies in the country. And he said, we’ve got something here.

29:44 He’s like, you know, we’ve really got a company that one, we can either put public, we can sell it to it to a really, really big company, or we can grow this into something that’s going to change businesses in the UK. And that’s the first time he’s ever spoke like that to me. Before then, I’d bring my P&L in. I’d bring my results in. He’d say, Mark, these are peanuts. You know, what are we doing here?

30:03 We’re going to do business or we’re going to muck around sort of thing. And when you get talked to like that, you’re like, oh. You quoted one time, you said, Lord Sugar is the type of businessman who when you say you made a 10 pound profit, he wants to know why it wasn’t 20 pounds. Yeah. Well, I indicated to him, I won’t go into too much detail, but we’ve had a good year.

30:22 We’ve had a good first end of the year. And I said to him, do you know, I’ve nearly paid you back your investment. And I said it with a bit of a dry smile. And he said, yeah, but you promised me double that in the first year. And exactly right. He always is playing me off against the other apprentices.

30:37 He is very, very clever in the way he deals with me and the way he motivates me. He’s much like the same as a sales manager or a mentor or a coach. He says to me, you know, Ricky Martin’s another one of the apprentice winners who owns a recruitment company. He says, you know, Ricky’s brought this much in, Mark. You know, you need to you need to really have a good month next month.

30:54 And although I know he’s slightly joking and it’s taken in good faith, nothing motivates me more because I want to come in. It’s kind of like the proud dad. You want to walk into his office with your company. And he goes, well done. You’ve had a good month this month. And there’s no better reassurance than that.

31:11 And over a big pay packet and all of the fame and all of this stuff at the end of the day, if he tells me, you know, I’m learning and I’ve done a good job. We’ve had a good month. That’s just as good to me. That’s why he’s a good leader, right? Yeah. He gets people to to want to bring success for his approval and to really want to win his favor.

31:28 Well, someone said to me, we’re just out with a bar. The apprentice winners after filming an episode of the last series were all around. And someone was talking about Lord Sugar and we all were. And someone stopped us and they said, you know, even though he’s not here, not one of you said one negative thing about him. And you don’t even realize, I think a good leader, no one has a bad word to say about him.

31:49 And we all defend his honor and each other, the apprentice winners behind each other’s back. And I think that real leaders inspire that within their people. And it’s you really want to work for them and you really want to impress them. But I don’t know why. Yeah, it’s a very hard thing to say.

32:04 Yeah, it’s a very hard thing to get right. And that does say a lot. Talk to me about apprentice winners. I think again, I heard a quote with you said, but some of them go on to become famous. Some go on to become great businessmen and women.

32:16 You wish that less would try to become famous. What happens to the winners and even the losers after, you know, what, 14 seasons of the show or 12 seasons? Yeah. The biggest problem for that show is it became mainstream. When it was on BBC Two, it was a business show.

32:32 It was all about the business teaching. And what it did to the British society was so good. Things like Apprentice and Dragon’s Den. Instead of a child sat in front of a TV watching a show with guys going out and drinking and clubbing and wearing caps backwards and being cool guys. Are you making reference to any specific show?

32:50 No, I’m not. You make up your own mind. All of a sudden, the TV flicked on 10 years ago and you’ve got investment shows, you’ve got business shows. And at 9 o’clock at night with your family, you can sit there and watch a show which is entertaining. But the underlying pull is it’s OK to go out and not go to university if that’s not your thing and try a business, set up a business, get investment.

33:11 You can do anything, you know, run a coach, sell fish, do these creative things. And it’s really entertaining, but it’s educational at the same time. What happened was, is the show got popular and it went from 1 million people watching it, an episode, to 10 million. And then all of a sudden, the people that are on there selling the fish become very famous. They get 80,000 followers on Twitter. You walk into a bar, everyone knows who you are. They want selfies, all of this stuff.

33:37 And that has a negative effect because people start going onto the shows for the wrong reasons. They see that the other candidates from previous years have become famous. And what do they want to become? They want to become famous. So they go on there, they become a bit of a larrikin or a clown.

33:54 They don’t want the investment, they don’t want to work with Lord Sugar, they don’t want to be a business person. They want to go onto those shows where they wear the caps backwards. Wright, and when the cameras are off at the house, you see those people at night. So you’re keeping your game tight, playing it nice and icy cold, and they’re having a drink, saying things they shouldn’t be saying, talking nonsense into the night. Yep, yep. You’ve just hit the nail on the head, not going to bed at night, talking absolute nonsense, talking about what they’re going to do once the show airs, talking about it like it’s a movie production.

34:25 And I remember feeling frustrated when I was on there thinking, if by chance one of these people beats me, I will be furious for doing this. Because it’s going to discredit me as a business person, because I was really on there for the right reasons. And now when I look back, I was never in any chance of losing to one of those people. But at the time, you don’t know how it works. And you’re thinking, Lord Sugar isn’t here, he’s not hearing them talk like that.

34:51 He’s not here seeing them stay up all evening and talk nonsense and talk, say, I can’t wait to get on the front of a magazine and get a reality TV show and all of these things. He doesn’t know that, and you get really frustrated by it. And sure enough, even in my year, the show airs, some people go on, I think two or three people go on to do business the rest, in front of this magazine, on this reality TV show, on this radio station. And people are using it instead of a platform for business as a platform for fame.

35:22 And I think that it’s something, Lord Sugar, and the show are very aware of, but how do you stop it? You know, the show’s so popular now. You know, I walk down the street and you get asked for 50 selfies, and I’m in a position where I’ve built a great business with Lord Sugar, and I can appreciate it. Great, that’s really nice to be recognised for that show. But I think that fame is a mask that’ll eat your face.

35:44 And for the guys that didn’t win that are walking down getting the selfies, as soon as that dies off, they’re going to be chasing it again. Do you turn down selfies? No, never. Oh, okay, all right. Never turn down one.

35:57 And if you become invested with Lord Sugar, he doesn’t encourage you to be in the entertainment side. But if you don’t become a winner, you can kind of do whatever you want, right? Yeah. When you become a winner, you go with Lord Sugar and his management and PR team, and then if you don’t, you’re left to your own devices. And I think that that’s where the danger is, because a lot of them are looking for those opportunities that aren’t business related.

36:24 And I remember Lord Sugar saying to me, you know, fame isn’t the green beanstalk everyone thinks it is. He said, you know, if you come with me and you grow a business, you’ll do very well financially. If you go down the fame route and you’re going on all of these, you know, celebrity TV shows, that lasts about 12 months. You’ll get a couple of one or two big paychecks, and you’ll never get one again. You grow a business and you learn how to grow a business, you can have whatever you want down the track, fame and money and all the rest of it.

36:53 You’ll learn something in the process and it’ll be more sustainable. And that was the best advice. Those were wise words. We gave them to me the very moment that we filmed the last episode of the show. Okay. What do you say to people that look at you and your performance and say, Mark, you’re cold.

37:09 You’re a cold-hearted, you’re a calculated snake. You went through this whole process, played each other and went through it. What do you say to that? Well, I did what I had to do to win, and I don’t apologise to anyone for doing that because they weren’t there, quite frankly. And if I go back, I do it exactly the same because I won. And people have come up to me in the street and they say, you know, the way you did this, you know, how could you even…

37:31 You threw that person under the bus, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, yeah. But I was there to win a business TV show. I wasn’t there to become friends. I wasn’t there to be famous. I wasn’t there for everyone to go, God, you know, that’s a really nice guy.

37:45 I want him to come and, you know, do this, that and the other. I was there to become Lord Sugar’s business partner and show that I had what it took to be in business. And let me tell you now, business is ten times harder than that show. And I’ve had to be ten times more, you know, burly in the way I’ve dealt with situations. I’ve had to be colder in the way I’ve dealt with suppliers and customers in my real business. And that’s what they’re looking for in that show.

38:12 But, you know, if it’s the fact of people saying, oh, God, he should have not been like that in the boardroom or wow, that guy is there to win. That’s what I wanted. Fair enough. Is this show… Are it stays numbered? Like Trump only won a certain number of seasons and it kind of faded out.

38:28 I think it’s a wonderful thing, first of all, with Shartank in the US that people are watching entrepreneurs. I think it’s, like you said, it’s about 400 times more healthier than anything people could watch on TV. It shows people they can do things with their life, they can be proactive, that kind of thing. How many more seasons are left, do you think? I think another two or three. I think it’s got two or three in it and I think they’d be unwise to continue it.

38:51 I think that it’s certainly something that could come back in the future. But I think you see a lot of shows that really just keep going and going to the point that the ratings just die off and there’s no show anymore. I think, you know, Dragons, Dan, Shartank, Apprentice, they all have a place, but I think they need to know when it’s time to either change the format a bit and remodel or something else or have some time off because people are already saying, you know, it’s the same tasks every year.

39:16 It’s the same types of candidates every year and whatever. But I think the underlying ethos is fantastic. And the good thing about The Apprentice is it’s a real prize. You know, I didn’t get dropped off the back docks of Essex and said, see how you get on with your business. I got mentored by Lord Sugar. I talked to him week in week out. I seen once a month for a full day.

39:36 I have a whole team around me, an investment team around me, which has helped me grow my business. And I really got 250,000 pounds. It’s changed my life. And not to mention the people that have watched me who have changed theirs or inspired them to start a business. So the longer it can go, the better. But we don’t want to burn it out.

39:54 Talk to me about digital marketing. This is your business now. You’re now impressing Lord Sugar with your results, which is not easy to do. Of course, he wants more. You know, digital marketing, you know, there are a lot of self-proclaimed experts out there.

40:07 There are a lot of companies that are very good at what they do. We have Gary Vaynerchuk here tomorrow who does a pretty good job with VaynerMedia. But again, it’s hard to know who to listen to. And it’s a strange industry where a lot of the old school, a lot of the Fortune 500 companies, they don’t know who to listen to. How do you know what you’re talking about? What is business like? And what’s the future of digital media?

40:30 Digital is a crazy place. You know, it’s moving so quickly. And it’s at a pace now which I’ve never seen anything like. Social media has really added another element to digital and to business, small business especially. You know, you’ve got people really not sure how to engage it.

40:46 And I think the future is in just keeping up with what’s going on. We’re going to see, I think we’re going to see Facebook come and go. I think we’re going to see Google change a lot in the way that Google is. They’re changing the way the ads work. They’re changing the way they serve information.

41:01 And I think for a business it’s about self-education. The more you can learn about digital and keep abreast of it, the more you’re going to do, the more sensible you’re going to approach things online as a small business. And I think the best thing I’ve really changed in my business is not to make it salesy. We make it more informative and educational. The more you can place yourself as an authority in the industry and as a business and the more you can learn and the more I can learn myself, the better, the more deals we’re selling, the more customers we’re bringing on.

41:31 Because we’re going into businesses and we’re teaching them about their industry and their business from an online perspective. Rather going in to try and sell a solution or sell a product. We’re going in there and saying, right, for your industry, have you tried doing Periscope? You know, Periscope works like this and we can connect it through Twitter. And then what we can do is using some SEO, have your ranking for these specific keywords and that’s going to produce X.

41:53 And that educational perspective is the first step. We’re launching something called the Climb Academy where we’re going to train people, individuals and businesses, on how to do digital marketing. So many people think they know what they’re doing because they have a Facebook account. But really they don’t. So we’re going to start by educating people to improve, hopefully, our own business.

42:16 You said Facebook is going to come and go. I haven’t heard too many people saying Facebook is going to go. And what are your thoughts on that and why? I think it’s the biggest disaster waiting to happen, Facebook. I really think they got it wrong, the platform that they have.

42:29 They had a platform which everyone uses. Everyone has a Facebook, a personal Facebook. And they literally sold out overnight to advertising. And I’m in online advertising, so great. Here’s a media where we can get great campaigns.

42:41 We can get low cost clicks and impressions and set up. It’s like a second Google AdWords right effectively. But the service they provide through to agencies like ourselves and to individuals for advertising is really second rate. Really? A lot of metrics.

42:57 A lot of metrics. A lot of metrics. But in terms of customer support, there’s no phone line you can call. As an agency, we spend tens of thousands of pounds a month with them. Can’t get hold of anyone.

43:07 Can’t get an account manager until you spend X. Can’t do Y. And what’s actually starting to happen is what I’m seeing at street level is the customers have got Y’s that they’ve sold out to advertising so heavily. And the information they’re seeing is no longer their friends on their beach holiday. It’s this field of video data which is irrelevant mixed with advertising.

43:28 And the user experience which they prided themselves on is now really taking a hit, especially in the last 12 months. Now, I wish Facebook every success, and I think it’s a brilliant company. But I think they need to remember why they built that business, which was Mark Zuckerberg saying, I want the Facebook, which is people can go on and look at the relationship status and what their friends are up to. And it’s getting further and further away to that and more corporate and corporate savvy.

43:55 They’re saying, Mark Zuckerberg’s going to be the first world trillionaire. That’s amazing what he’s built with that business and how well he’s done financially. But we don’t want to see that product go. Record profits. Yeah, but at what cost?

44:10 At what cost? I’m not disagreeing with you. I personally don’t have a lot of success with Facebook ads. I think sometimes it can be throwing money down the drain. I think a lot of people use them to some limited success.

44:24 It’s not really in our business model. But it’s interesting to hear you say that. Let me hit you with a few other social media platforms and let me just get your take on it. Just like speed, what is it? Like one word answers.

44:36 I’ll ask you, I think, Twitter, what’s your read on Twitter? Fantastic. We’ve sold hundreds of thousands of pounds of business on it. But like anything, the amount of followers you’ve got really dictates your success. As an advertising platform, shocking.

44:48 As a personal platform, brilliant. Wright, brilliant if you can crack celebrity status. If you can crack celebrity. If you’re Joe Bloggs, who lives down the road with 38 followers, you’re wasting your time. If you’re Lord Sugar, 5 million followers, tweeting, climb online.

45:03 Unbelievable marketing tool. Yeah, no, I’d have to agree with a lot of that. I think it’s a place where people go to look at people. To look at, to get kind of stargaze. And it’s not a place where people can just engage with each other such as Facebook.

45:18 If you’d asked me before I went on Apprentice, I would have said, do not even log on to it. It’s a waste of time. The amount of business I’ve sold of it, the amount of productions and things I’ve been meeting, I’ve been able to set up, it’s unbelievable. And it’s free. But once again, we’ve tampered with the advertising of it, marketing’s all off.

45:35 The success of the campaigns is very limited, but they’re working hard to improve it. I think they’re linked with Periscope is the next big thing. Okay, let’s talk about Periscope. Obviously, it had some big success early on. Mark Cuban says he thinks it’s a flash in the pan.

45:53 What’s your call on Periscope? I think it’s a goer. I honestly think it’s an absolute goer. I think we’ve never seen video streaming be the way that Periscope can produce it, the quality in which it produces the video, and the way we’re seeing people sell products on it. And just do things like we’re doing now, real-time streaming of radio, of TV, of interviews, and of business.

46:17 We’re using it in our business. We have guests come in and speak. We have Books of the Week. We’re using it. We’re getting a lot of leads from it.

46:23 We’re getting a lot of new business from it. We’re getting a lot of engagement from the right types of customers. Now, early on, that’s all you can ask from a new social media platform. I think it’s the next big thing. I really do.

46:33 Okay, interesting. All right, to be continued, I found it fascinating when I first got on. I think there was a lot of hype when it first started, like a lot of pieces, and we’ll have to see how it plays out. But from what you said, very interesting, and going back to Twitter, I think Twitter is a fantastic networking tool. Yeah.

46:49 And like you said, the advertising platform, maybe not so much, but there’s a lot of things you can do on Twitter, even though it’s not as sexy as it used to be, and it seems to be kind of on the downturn as far as the hot new thing, you can do a lot of things on Twitter. Like you said, you can connect with people and get meetings, and things can happen faster on Twitter than any social media platform. Well, we’re seeing, you know, I’ve now got exposure to a lot of Lord Sugar, and his following’s over five million.

47:15 Companies ring up and offer to do basically anything to get a tweet. Big, big Fortune 500s and blue chip companies now know the value to certain followers and getting tweets from those profiles to a monetary level. Companies will ring myself up and offer me free products, money for tweets. And obviously there’s been a lot of research there to really drill down and say, right, how much is a certain follower base worth per tweet? Instagram.

47:45 Instagram, again, absolute goer. I think Instagram is, we’re going to continue to see the rise and the rise of. It’s about being smart, the more photos you can put out, the right types of photos within the right types of audiences, I think is going to be another growth. And I think this year will be the big year for Instagram as well, where we really see it separate itself from the Periscope and the Twitter. I think it will break off as its own media in its own right.

48:14 Yeah, I’ve been very bullish. We were a little late to Instagram, but I’ve been really happy with it. I get much higher engagement there than a lot of other platforms. It’s more addictive. I think it’s dangerous.

48:26 It’s just pouring in disguise. And I think you want to not spend too much time on that or you really won’t get much done. But in that sense, you can see why it’s so attractive. And it’s, again, where Facebook is going away from and where I feel they’re losing their success. How simple is Instagram?

48:41 You take a photo, you put a filter on it, you upload it, and you can see all your friends’ success. They haven’t tried to make it more than what it is. And I think people love things that are easy to use, simple, and you can look at others. As soon as Facebook did that, they were successful. And you can get away from that into all of this advertising and video and chat and this and that and everything under the sun.

49:01 As soon as you try to be all things to all men, you generally lose why you built the business. To be continued on the Facebook. Also, they own Instagram, and so I’ve noticed that Instagram gets some wonderful placement on Facebook for some strange reason. So for that, it’s also very useful because it can get a lot more play than, say, I don’t know, a YouTube piece that’s posted on Facebook. We’ll get back to that. Let’s talk about YouTube.

49:24 What are your thoughts? Well, YouTube’s the second biggest search engine in the world, obviously owned by Google. Very smart investment move when they got it a few years back. At the time, billion dollars. People said it wasn’t.

49:34 And now, look, it’s money for old rope, they’d probably say now, because the business they’re building there, the way we communicate through video, I’ve already touched on Periscope, but video is the future. People telling their message through video. And once again, from an advertising perspective, we’re seeing so much more engagement through selling through video. A lot of our customers are filming short 30-second videos. You don’t pay if it’s skipped before 30 seconds, and they’re getting a lot of clicks through to their website, a lot of engagement, and a lot of how-tos.

50:04 If you look at the top keyword on Google, it is Facebook. The seconds are how to, how do I, what is. And people actually then click through to YouTube, how do I fix my faucet for my sink? And they’re watching half a video and trying to self-teach and self-learn. I think it’s only going to come more of the future.

50:22 Yeah, I’m a huge fan of YouTube. London Real wouldn’t exist without YouTube. I think we don’t even understand what it is yet and how it can be used. I’ve often said that since it’s owned by Google and since they just made it free to the world, it’s changed our business model and our evolution. Because I have literally probably 500 hours of video on YouTube that can be accessed by anyone in the world at any time.

50:45 At any time. Second largest search engine. We’re number one searched for most of our guests because we have such long amounts of great content. So I pray to YouTube every morning. I will do it again tonight when I go home.

50:55 But I think it’s fantastic. What do you think about the 360 degree virtual reality videos YouTube? Is it going to be a game changer for business or is it going to be a blip? Something we talked about like 3D movies. I think it’s a blip.

51:06 I really, I think the production is tough. I think that it’s, I think it’s a blip. That’s my honest opinion of it. And it’s too, as you say, to be continued. I think it’s a blip.

51:17 But you know, even going back to one of my tasks on Apprentice was making a YouTube video and seeing who could get the most views in 48 hours. You know, it is the next way that businesses will be built. And you know, you talk about the bedroom DJs, the people that build businesses from home. That’s where you can do it. But no 360.

51:35 No 360. What about virtual reality? Obviously Facebook bought Oculus. Maybe it’s a long term VR play. I mean, you know, when you can move your phone around and see the video in 360, it’s a little different than dragging your mouse.

51:46 I agree. Maybe. Maybe. The thing is, is you look at Google Glass and the amount of money that Google sunk into Google Glass for the same reasons. And they binned it.

51:56 You know, this time last year. It’s really hard for people to engage with. And the cost for these companies is huge. Yeah. Now, we’ll set on that.

52:07 And any other social media pieces that come to mind that play in your environment? Absolutely not. And I think that this is where people, you know, a lot of people disagree with me. But I go into a lot of businesses and they say, Mark, look, I’ve got these 20 social media accounts. And I say, you need to shut 16 of them down.

52:25 That’s the first thing. Because you’ve got one piece of content on all 16. You’re better off having the top ones, which we know is Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and a Periscope account. And you know, and a Google Plus, because that’s helping with your local SEO. That’s about it.

52:39 The rest is really, unless, specifically, you know, industry tailored, you’re wasting your time. And I agree. We actually teach a business accelerator course. And we get everybody on five social medias, especially for solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram. Yeah.

52:56 And then I say specialize in two. Yeah. And take two and own it. For us, we own YouTube and probably Twitter is our second. You know, we’re okay on Facebook.

53:03 We’re getting there on Instagram. You know, LinkedIn, I’m just there for business networking, really. You’ve hit the nail on the head. You need to be a specialist in one or two. And then do them really well.

53:12 Do them better than your competition. Rather than having 20 and doing one thing every so often on each, because you just get nowhere very quickly. Wright. How does business look for you for the next couple of years? Is it going to continue expanding at this incredible breakneck rate?

53:27 Are you going to go international? What do things look like? It is. It’s all things. It’s all go at the minute.

53:33 We’ve doubled our turnover in the last month. We’re signing up an average of five new businesses per week. Our staff count is looking to double, looking to out of 50 staff by the end of this year. We’re going to be opening, hopefully, a northern office in the UK this year and expanding out overseas, abroad. We’re not sure in which countries yet, but we have a real brand and a real company that’s doing good things, and I can’t wait to take Climb Online as far as it can go.

53:58 How do you hire that fast? With a lot of cost and recruitment fees. But we’ve created a company with an amazing culture. You know, we’re out for table tennis tonight. We’re at boxing tomorrow night.

54:10 We had a foosball table last week. We’re playing six or seven or so football all the time. We create a culture where people want to work and they’re recommending their friends and family work there. That’s the best recommendation you can get, really. You’re familiar with the company Zappos in America, Tonshe.

54:25 His whole theory is that, yeah, a company’s brand is a lagging indicator of the company culture. If you get your culture right, your brand will be right. Do you think it’s that extreme? I wouldn’t have agreed before I owned this business, but having the culture that we have, you walk into the office and you can almost feel the vibe and the buzz of the place. And I agree, I think that culture creates the business and it creates the brand.

54:51 And when people go in and they’re selling the business to customers, they feel the culture that we’ve created and the customers feel like they want to be a part of the journey. And that’s what we’ve tried to create and it’s working. Well, you’re obviously doing something, I mean, that’s for sure. We have lots of entrepreneurs that watch the show, a lot of solopreneurs, people that want to get into things. What’s the biggest mistake you see these people making?

55:13 Maybe some of them are on The Apprentice with you, but I’m sure you bump into people. I’m sure a lot of people ask you to mentor them. Yeah. And what are the big red flags right away where you’re like, you’re not doing this, this, and this? The biggest thing I see is people going into businesses they know nothing about.

55:29 They talk to you or I and they say, well, he’s doing well from digital marketing. I’m going to do digital marketing. And they go full force into something they’ve looked not into at all because someone else is doing well into it. I think you need to stick with what you know. The most successful entrepreneurs and business people I see, they’re working in something, they think it can be done better or differently and then they apply themselves to that business and they’re the most successful young people I see.

55:56 And that’s the most common mistake businesses I go into. They’ve tried something they weren’t versed in. Secondly, I go into businesses that don’t even have a website and I can’t tell you how many people I’ve gone in and seen and said, what’s your website? I haven’t got one. You know, still today 45% of businesses in the UK don’t have a website.

56:14 I don’t believe it. You know, how do they not? You know, I don’t know the last time you picked up the yellow pages and tried to find a business to call. It just doesn’t happen. People are going online, they’re searching for business and they’re going to your website and it’s your reflection of your business.

56:28 I say it’s no good having the best shop fitting on the world until your shop fitting, which is your website, is perfect. Yeah, I always say you always get one chance to make a first impression and in this world it’s your website. And then what’s your media presence? I always say every company is a media company first these days. So what are you putting out on YouTube?

56:48 What are you putting out that people know you buy? And if it’s nothing, then that’s probably what people are going to think about you. Exactly. And that’s where video, we can come back to video or speaking. You need to be an expert in your field.

56:59 You need to have opinions. You need to be out there because we live in an environment now where young kids, you know, the 16s to 20s will stand outside the premises of a business and Google it before they go in to see if there’s special offers, what the reviews are, you know, what they’re doing online. You can’t believe it. I’ve seen this physically happen where people will look in a shop, oh, let’s see if they’ve got a special, I don’t want to eat there until I see what deals they’ve got if I can use a voucher.

57:23 What a world we live in where they won’t even walk in, but you need to be prepared for that world because it’s here now. You said know your business. You come from a small town in Australia, former personal trainer. You missed the football match. So why do I listen to you on digital marketing?

57:40 Because I’m passionate about it and I absolutely love it. I found what I love to do and I think that I never thought I’d say that I didn’t know. When I was even 18, 19, I still didn’t know what I wanted to do and I thought, God, I’m not going to be one of these people that says I get up and I love what I do every day. Then digital marketing almost found me by accident. Through working as a personal trainer.

58:02 I was working at a college and we needed a website and I taught myself how to make a website, then we needed customers and I taught myself how to get it up the rankings of Google. Literally, it sold itself to me. I taught myself the website. I started getting it up the rankings of Google and the further up I got it, the more leads we started to get into the college and I thought this stuff is incredible. Because I’ve got that first-hand experience from being in a business and watching it go from $2,000 a month in sales without a website and without ranking to $250,000 a month when it had a website at the top of Google, I sit with business owners and I tell that story and I show them how to do it.

58:46 I believe in it and I love it so much that they can feel that. It’s just the passion I have because it’s changed my customer’s life. It’s changed my life and as many people I can talk to, I can talk to about it, I will. And that’s one of the reasons you left Australia because you wanted to come to a place where you could scale your own business, scale your own life. Yeah, I think I felt a bit lost in Australia really.

59:08 I’m from a very small town. I moved into the city of a town called Brisbane and I tried on a football contract which didn’t go so well and I really didn’t know what I wanted to do with myself. So I went backpacking. I think when you’re young, you’ve got a bit of money, you go backpacking, right, when you’re in Australia because you’re so far from everything and I just got a bit of a world ticket and I did a year on the road and it’s that year that really shaped who I am and changed me and resulted in me being in London and going on to The Apprentice.

59:40 I just had that passion for digital, I had that passion for business and it all just sort of came together because I never lost that faith in that it would come together. Yeah. For those of us who can’t make it on The Apprentice, how do we find a mentor? I’m sure you get asked this all the time. People ask me this all the time.

59:58 It’s not simple, is it? No. And it doesn’t have to be someone massive. It doesn’t need to be a Lord Sugar. Everyone thinks, you know, if I’m going to get a mentor, it needs to be the top guy.

1:00:09 It needs to be Bill Gates. It needs to be Warren Buffett. It needs to be Lord Sugar. I’m very fortunate that my mentor is Lord Sugar but I just get as much out of speaking with my dad. You know, you need to find people that inspire you, that you’re passionate about dealing with personally and that you can have long, comfortable conversations with and be really open and honest with.

1:00:29 And someone who’s achieved the results you want to achieve in certain fields because it’s no good asking, you know, how to be a great swimmer to a runner. You know, they’re not going to be able to give you those advice. You need to seek out the people in that field that have been successful. And I find a lot of people, you can go to talks. For example, if you want to be in digital marketing and you go to a digital marketing expo, a lot of people that speak on stage that give out the information are very good mentors.

1:00:56 So as long as you’re hanging out in industry-relative environments, seek out the best people in those places. And what do you bring to the table as a mentee? You know, so many people, especially in their 20s, they think to themselves, what would I have to offer? You’re in the extreme case. Why would Lord Sugar want to spend time with me?

1:01:15 I’m a 26-year-old guy from, you know, the backwoods of Australia. Yeah. What do you tell people when they tell you things like that? Well, first of all, I’m hungry. I’m hungry than anyone else my age to be successful, and I work damn hard.

1:01:28 Two, I was working within my industry in digital marketing and had a business plan for my own digital marketing business. Lord Sugar doesn’t know anything about digital marketing. So he’s a young guy who’s hungry to create a business, who’s already working in the industry and has a business plan for the exact same business. That ticks all of the investment boxes, because if you look at Lord Sugar’s history through The Apprentice, that everyone’s been sort of 25, 26 when he’s invested.

1:01:55 They’ve all been working in the industry that he’s invested in them from, and they’ve all got that certain hunger and drive about them. And I think that that’s what he’s looking for. You know, if I said to him, you know, I want to go and start a circus, he’d say, what do you know about running a circus? You know, at the end of the day. Whilst, like I said at the start, he really does invest in the person more than anything.

1:02:17 It’s good to know what you’re speaking about, because the whole conversation’s at that level with an investor. You need to know the numbers, you need to know the facts, and you need to know what’s happening in your own industry. Yeah, and you said it there. I mean, a lot of people say, why would a big-time mentor or lord or someone who’s been knighted want to do with a young person? But yeah, people love to see hunger.

1:02:36 There’s not that much of it out there. Hard work, not that much of it out there. People that write business plans when they’re 25, you know, just don’t see that that often. You don’t. And the thing is, is if a lot of people went out right now and they earned two million pounds, they’d probably stop.

1:02:50 They’d go, I made it, I’ve done it, I made two million pounds. It’s a great idea, I’m going to retire now. Lord Sugar went out there, he made two million pounds. He said, right, how am I going to make 10? He made 10, then he made 20, then he made 50, then 100.

1:03:02 And there’s some people that drive never switches off on. But also what Lord Sugar’s good at is, he appreciates his journey, he’s never going to stop, and he’s still got that drive. But he appreciates he doesn’t know everything. He doesn’t know digital marketing. So what do you do?

1:03:16 You go and find somebody who does know digital marketing, you appreciate that. It’s a growth industry. And if you find the right guy with the right passion and the right business plan, you can still make money from that industry and change someone else’s life as well. So it’s not only, you know, my good doing, but it’s clever investing. How much is enough for you, Mark?

1:03:35 I, never, never enough. Because I don’t have a number. You know, I’ve earned more money in the last year than I ever have. And it doesn’t feel like my life’s changed at all because I’ve got so much more I want to achieve, I’ve got so much more I want to grow. And it’s not about money for me, it’s about the legacy that I leave behind.

1:03:56 If I could have no money but leave behind a 70 office company employing over, you know, 5,000 people that’s changed the way that businesses generate leads through online, I’m happy. Instead of having one office as a multi-billionaire, what have I actually achieved for a legacy? You are dating another Apprentice winner. Now if it doesn’t get weirder than that, I don’t know what it is. Why? And what are the pros and cons of that?

1:04:23 Oh God, you’ve done your research. So I am dating Dr. Leah, yeah. The lovely lady who won the 2013 series of the show. I’m so lucky because she’s way out of my league, let me tell you.

1:04:36 She’s incredible, you know, if you think I’m a gifted business person, it’s ten times more gifted academically and in business than me. She obviously owns a business with Lord Sugar, Dr. Leah Clinics doing skin aesthetic treatments, you know Botox, Fila, all the rest of it. I’ve never seen a woman like her really, and I think that the thing is when you’re an Apprentice winner, not many people understand the journey you’ve been on, they don’t understand the pressure you’re under.

1:05:03 And I think Leah and I found each other, we’re very like-minded. She’s an incredible woman and I’m so lucky to have her really. And the cons, is it you’re talking about Lord Sugar and business all the time? We fight a lot over how to deal with business because you’ve got two almost strong personalities that went through, that the Apprentice process is so tough and you came out as the champion. Now, in our own home, we’ve both won that series, and the one we fight the most is when we watch The Apprentice, because she says, this is what I’d do, and I’d say, well, this is what Lord Sugar’s going to say. She says, he won’t say that, he’ll say this.

1:05:41 It’s a bit of a different environment, but I really, really like it. And she’s been an incredible help to my business, and I think I’ve been a real motivator to her. I think she’s a doctor, she’s very academic, and I’m a businessman, and I think those two put together an incredible force. Are great entrepreneurs born or are they made? I asked Lord Sugar this question, and I’ve seen him asked it many times, and I agree with him that they are born.

1:06:09 There’s an element to every entrepreneur that you have to have something as a base. You know, I can’t go out there and be the fastest swimmer in the world, because I wasn’t born with the ability to do that and then train on top of it. I was born with something inside of me with a real hunger for success and for business and to help people in that respect, and I’ve coached myself further on from that. And I think everyone’s got something inside of them, but you’ve got to build on a base.

1:06:39 I think you might be right. And Gary Vee says the same thing. I’m going to ask him the same question tomorrow. Great, you know, winners, does it make you a better businessperson if you’ve had a setback, if you’ve had a loss, you know, or is it always about someone who’s had 100 straight wins until they’re 50 years old? Tell me.

1:06:57 I honestly think that you need to have been kicked down a couple of times, because people do one of two things. When they get knocked down, they give up and they try something else, or they get up 10 times stronger, and with that passion and that enthusiasm that they didn’t have before. And sometimes you need that kick in down to come back up. And, you know, I’ve had my fair share of setbacks and, you know, not making it, not thinking you’re going to make it, and it only inspired me further to get going.

1:07:29 Where I’m finding it harder and harder is the more successful your business gets, the more pay that’s in your packet at the end of the month, it gets harder. You know, a lot of boxes have said, you know, when you’re on the street and you’re hustling your way to the top, you’re in that gym and you’re pounding it harder than anyone. As soon as you’ve got the big house, the great-looking girlfriend, the fast cars, getting up at five o’clock to go to the gym in the morning and hit that bag as hard as it was at the start is really tough.

1:07:53 And it’s the same in business, the bigger your office gets, the more employees you have to do stuff. It does, it’s hard to stay hungry, and that’s the key to figuring out. It’s like the movie Rocky III. Same thing happened to him. Yeah.

1:08:08 And look what happened to Rocky. But he came back. Public speaking, it’s something that, funny enough, you said you weren’t actually that good at when you won the apprentice. Yeah. And yet, you know, to see you on that, you would expect a man like you would be good at public speaking.

1:08:23 You know, I’ve given a TED Talk now, and we coach people here at London Real and we’ve got ten people that are going to be giving TED Talks at the end of the year. And it’s not obvious how to master public speaking. You did it by throwing yourself in the fire. Yeah. It’s one of my, you’ve just touched on one of my personal goals, is to do a TED Talk.

1:08:41 I love watching TED videos, and I think the speakers that go in there are incredible and well done to you. It’s a lot of fun. It’s one of my goals because I was a really poor public speaker. I was very nervous. I’d get up and I’d just talk nonsense or I’d be so shaky in the way that I spoke.

1:08:57 And even on the apprentice, I had my biggest failing of all time. I had to stand up and do a talk at Tesco’s. We designed a pudding. I had to present it to the management board of Tesco’s. I stood up, went to speak.

1:09:09 I forgot all my words and nothing came out. And I thought from that point, right, that’s it. I’m talking at every event they will let me speak at. I’ve spoken at schools. I’ve been to do motivational talks at businesses.

1:09:23 Anywhere anyone will let me speak, I’ll stand there and talk. And what I’ve noticed is I’m calmer. I’m relaxed. My story makes sense. And I’m just comfortable in my own skin and speaking to a room full of people.

1:09:35 And it’s the best thing I’ve ever done. And it’s made me more competent in my business as well, and especially selling my products. Because if I can talk to tens and thousands of people, I can talk to one just as comfortably. Do you think all great CEOs really have to be great public speakers? Not necessarily.

1:09:52 I’ve met lots of CEOs that they don’t want to leave their office and their business is terribly successful. I think for me and the type of person I want to be in the future. And I believe business is, like I say, being a master of your own space and your own industry. And I thought the more I can get out and talk about digital, educate people, they’re going to say, hey, what business does that guy own? I want to use him because he’s taught me a little bit, but he can have my marketing.

1:10:16 That was my theory, I guess. And a great way to get clients, because you said early last year you were on the road speaking wherever you could, because it’s that one person in the back of the audience that says, hey, we’ve got to get our digital marketing together. That young man seems like he knows what he’s talking about. That’s exactly it. Well, that’s exactly it.

1:10:33 The more talks I’ve done, we monitor our analytics to our website. And every time I do a talk, we notice a spike in leads coming into our business. And what I notice is I might only be talking to a room with 100 people in it, but it’s so targeted, all 100-owned businesses. I’d rather talk to that room than 10,000 people that don’t necessarily, they’re just there for entertainment. So it’s about speaking in front of the right people and as often as possible, because it’s refining me and what I’m speaking about, but also it’s generating business for me.

1:11:04 Yeah, it’s a great tool for any entrepreneur. Unbelievable, and I don’t know why more people don’t do it. Because they’re scared of public speaking and you have to get uncomfortable. It’s frightening. And I remember walking off the stage a couple of times and I thought, I’m never doing that again.

1:11:17 That was shocking. And it’s just getting better now. You start with students, which is a great idea, right? Because it’s a big crowd, but it feels like less is on the line. You can warm up.

1:11:27 Yeah, the younger the audience, when I started speaking at schools, because the stories don’t need to be as accurate. You know, you’re talking about the apprentice or whatever it might be. I even started speaking at schools before apprentice, so you can talk about more fun things. It’s don’t have to talk about business. And you can really just get a feel for talking to a mass group of people, making them laugh, seeing what things work, what don’t things work.

1:11:51 Because kids are more honest than adults. If I make a bad joke to adults, they’ll laugh out of politeness. Kids won’t. If it’s not funny, they’re not laughing. It’s a really good environment to test out on, and they’ll let me speak to kids for free.

1:12:07 So that’s how I sort of started. And if you can get their attention, you can get adults attention. Exactly. I think Eddie Izard, when he was here, he said, when he used to street perform out in Covent Garden, first of all, street performing means that you have no stage, no audience that actually has to sit there and watch you. So that, first of all, is hard.

1:12:26 And second of all, he said trying to get kids’ attention. And if you could do that, then now you know what will make the adults. I completely agree with him. The two best things I’ve ever done is cold calling. I did a year of cold calling, and I’ve done now coming up two years of speaking on the circuit, and the comfort in the way I can deliver things, and my control of my own nerves.

1:12:49 I still get nervous, but I can control it a lot better, is the best thing I’ve ever done in business and just for myself. Mark, let me ask you a few questions about your own personal success. Some secrets, some things you learned over the years. Do you have a certain morning routine or certain thing that you make sure you get done every week, or things you tell yourself that really ensure that you’re more successful?

1:13:18 You’re a student of American business, which intertwines American politics. What does your read on Donald Trump? He ran The Apprentice in the U.S.

1:13:48 Back then, if you would have told me he had a chance of being president, I think we both would have said very unlikely, but we’ve seen him come up through the ranks. Before I finish, I’ll say Americans love a winner. They love a businessman who’s been successful, probably more so than they even know. What’s your read on Trump as a businessman and as a politician? Okay, this is a tough question to answer because he is an interesting guy, and I think that at times he’s a very unsavory kind of character.

1:14:20 He says and does things which are just stupid. They verge on stupidity, but the belief that man and conviction he speaks with and the self-belief he has and the positive attitude he’s taken towards getting to president, I actually think he’s going to win it. If you asked me that a year ago, I would have been like, you’re mad. But he’s going to win it, I think, and I think that it’s either going to do one of two things for America and the world, because whoever’s running America, let’s face it, has got a pretty big say on the free world.

1:14:51 He’s either going to do great things or terrible things because he’s that kind of character. He has to leave his mark on things. But more than anything, what I’ve taken from that, if Donald Trump can become president of America, anyone can do anything. This is a guy who’s literally paved his own way by believing in Donald Trump and the way he takes things on and the self-belief, and that’s what I encourage people to watch from him. He’s just a normal bloke, but he believed so much in what he could do.

1:15:21 If you went back in time and asked him if he’d be president, he told you who he was going to be, and he’s just worked every day towards that. He’s been bankrupt three times. He’s failed more times than he’s succeeded, but he keeps getting up, going, and believing in himself. And actually, if he wins at fair play to the guy, it’ll be interesting to see what happens. It’s going to be fascinating. You said that so well.

1:15:42 If you listen to the word sometimes, you think it’s a madman. But if you look into the frame he has and the confidence he has in himself and his brand, he’s gotten there for a reason, and he’s put in the hard work. He’s put in all of the ups and downs. I remember I read The Art of the Deal 20, 25 years ago when that first came out, and I was in New York City when he was there and saw all that happening. It’s just fascinating to watch because the Americans are voting for him, even though a lot of people don’t want to say they are, but someone is voting for him.

1:16:14 Well, I was in America recently, and every taxi, I made a rule, every taxi I got into I’d ask who they were going to vote for. Every single taxi driver I spoke to said Donald Trump, and their opinion of, I don’t know what that says about taxi drivers, I don’t know America that well, but everyone was saying he’s got pretty good, he’s pretty popular. And when you’re coming over from the UK, he’s not that popular here. Certainly, after some of his early remarks in his campaign, he made himself very unpopular in the UK, and there was a petition to ban him from the UK.

1:16:43 That was some of the early stuff, and that’s the point I went over, and everyone in America was saying, you know what, we need a bit of a shake-up over here, and if anyone’s going to shake it up, it’s Donald Trump. And I think he is potentially, you could say, the best of a bad bunch at the minute, but he’s going to do it, and he’s going to do it through self-belief, and actually he’s turned me from a pretty naysayer to someone that’s like, you know what, he’s fought so hard for it, he believes in himself, give the guy a go, and let’s see where we are with this. You got to get in trouble now. I think he’s got a very good chance of winning.

1:17:13 I think so. Yes, he does, and it’s going to be fascinating. And again, he’s very real, and I remember looking at that Republican debate, one of the first ones he was at, and it was Jeb Bush, and all these other cronies, and I was just like, how can anyone take anything they’re saying seriously, because it’s all scripted and it’s nonsense. Yeah, which tie do I wear, which goes best with opinion, and all of this stuff. And when I watched the first debate, I have a real love for politics, and particularly American politics.

1:17:38 I don’t know if it was House of Cards that got me onto it, but anyway, it’s just I like politics in general. And the presence Donald Trump commanded in that first debate, you just wanted the camera to pan back to him and hear what he was going to say next, and that was me as a viewer. So if I’m thinking that, everyone else is thinking that, aren’t they? You know, no one cares what Jeb Bush has got to say. That guy was on The Apprentice, he’s a businessman, you know he’s going to say something crazy, and it was initially it was entertaining more than anything.

1:18:05 And then you started to think, actually what he’s saying makes a bit of sense, and actually he’s making more sense than these other guys, and then all of a sudden each week his campaign gained momentum, and you talk about the power of Twitter, I follow Donald on Twitter, and he’s done more damage through his Twitter than these guys have done with hundreds of millions through advertising in America, and you know he’s probably done it a lot cheaper, and that’s the businessman in him coming out. That’s going to be fascinating watching it happen, and Americans love a good show. Yeah.

1:18:35 That’s for sure. What are you grateful for? What am I grateful for? I’m grateful for the life I have. You know, I was walking from the train to my office this morning, and it’s a nice sunny day, and I thought to myself, I’m really happy.

1:18:47 At the moment, there’s one of the first times in my life where I’m happy with all aspects of my life. I’ve got a wonderful girlfriend. My family are very supportive and happy in what I’ve accomplished, and you know, my business is going well, so I couldn’t be more grateful for what I have at this point in time, and you know, the fact that I’ve got my health and all the people around me is fantastic. Amen to that. Mark, I always ask everyone here a couple questions at the end.

1:19:14 I’m going to hit you. If you could ring the 20-year-old, Mark Wright, and give that young man a bit of advice, what would you tell him? What was he like? I would…he was a stressor, a warrior, which I still have elements of in me today, but I’d just say not to worry so much and just enjoy the ride. I think that I was so worried I wasn’t going to make anything of myself.

1:19:37 I was always thinking, God, you know, am I going to be someone? Am I going to have money? Am I going to be successful? You know, am I going to fail? I’d just say, listen, just stop for a minute.

1:19:47 Don’t worry about everything because you can’t control it anyway, and give things a go. So, you know, I think that the nine times out of ten people have a good idea, and I’ve had so many ideas which I’ve just never gone through with, and if I went through with half of them, I’d be ten times more successful than I am today. It would be just relax, take on one thing at a time, do the best you can, and it’s all going to work out. Very good advice. Second question, best advice you’ve ever received.

1:20:15 I’m actually going to ask you for the best advice you’ve ever received from Lord Sugar first, and then best advice you’ve ever received ever. The best advice I’ve ever received from Lord Sugar, it would be about investing in property. I think one of the best advice, you know, I’ve been told is, he does business for fun, invests in property to make money. That was the best advice I’ve received. Okay, so he, that’s, okay, that’s well said.

1:20:41 So, he invests in property, and you will be too. Yeah. Okay. I think one of the first questions they posed to me when I started working in Lord Sugar’s place is, you know, do you rent or own your own home? And I said, well, I was one of these guys, you know, what’s the market doing at the moment?

1:20:54 And they said, well, are you renting at the minute? And I said, yeah, I’m renting. And they said, well, you’re losing money. You’re better off to buy a property that’s failing, and pay the same amount that you’re paying in rent. When you think about it like that, I was like, how quick can I get out and buy a house, you know?

1:21:08 And I think that that’s been a great lesson for me, and creating multiple streams of income has been a real lesson from Lord Sugar for me. And again, coming back to investing and what you know, he’s the main guy who’s really drummed into me. If you’re going to invest in things and you’re going to invest in people, invest in someone who knows the industry that they’re coming from. Too many times, two investors get involved in an industry they don’t know about.

1:21:33 One person always needs to know the industry, and one person can bring the business advice and the money. And that is a real key to investing, and I think it will make me a smarter, successful investor in the future. And the best advice I’ve ever received in general, that’s a really tough one, because it’s a real tough one. I think my granddad, who was my best friend and my hero, and taught me everything I know about business, he said to me, if you ever want to get on in this world, the only way to make money, create a successful business is with your two hands.

1:22:12 And I’ll never forget it, because he really drummed into me hard work, and most people would say, if you believe it enough, you’ll get there at the end of the day, and he would just say, Mark, that’s bullshit. If you want to make money and you want to be successful and you want to be remembered, you need to work harder than anyone else. And I remember, I was only a kid, and he drummed it in every week. Every week, you need to work harder than everyone if you want to be successful.

1:22:37 And people don’t like to hear that. They want to get told that you can make money and you can be successful and you can be remembered just because it’s going to happen, but you need to get out and work harder than everyone else. And he’d really drum that into me, and that’s what I’ve always done that’s got me here today. Final question. To that 20-year-old that’s out there listening, it could have been you six years ago that might have tuned into YouTube or whatever.

1:23:01 Who wants to grow up and be like you? Who wants to either become a successful entrepreneur or have own sugar meant to them or go on the show? What advice do you give to them? Is to go for it. The first time I got sent the link for the Apprentice tryouts, I didn’t think I could do it or I wasn’t good enough.

1:23:23 And I think that, I don’t know if that’s me that feels that stuff or that’s a lot of people. The first reaction you always have to most things is a negative one in your own subconscious. You get sent an opportunity, and your first thing is that sort of thing’s not for me. Trying out for a TV show is not for me. Going into a bank and asking for a loan is not for me.

1:23:39 Doing a business isn’t for me. Other people do that. But the other people are the ones that they’re calling successful. And the only difference is between you and them is they got off their ass and they went and did it and they gave it a go. And actually, people think it’s going to fail all of the time.

1:23:55 Most chances are it’s not, and the worst case if it does fail, nothing bad happens. You’re in the same position you were when you watched the video. So I think the thing that really when my life got up and started moving is when I took on more opportunities and tried more things. And people always talk about the apprentice. I tried a lot of things before that that didn’t work.

1:24:15 But I tried them. Mark, it’s been a pleasure meeting you. Thank you very much. I’ve learned a lot. I am actually quite bullish on you and your business.

1:24:25 I think you guys are going to do very well. And I think it’s the attitude you bring to it. And I think your team probably really enjoys working for you. A lot of people can learn from kind of what you said and having a mentor like Lord Sugar. I think you’re gleaning a lot of those things.

1:24:42 And the mentors over the years, I think I learned the most by watching them the way you do. You just see the way they handle themselves, the way they conduct meetings, the way they remain unfazed when there’s a problem. And you can’t pay for that kind of education. You don’t get it at a business school. You don’t get it at a motivational seminar.

1:25:00 And being around great people like that really helps. Thank you. Thank you very much. And so as we say on London Real, it’s about the journey. I wish you well on yours.

1:25:09 Stay in touch. You’re right around the corner in shortage. Maybe you can give us some digital marketing advice someday. I hope so. But come back and see us soon and let us know how it’s going.

1:25:18 Thank you very much. That’s great. Thanks, Mark.