Kevin Shipp - Ex-CIA Officer Exposes The Deep State & Shocking Truths Of The Shadow Government

Full transcript: Kevin Shipp on London Real

3:50 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Kevin Shipp, the former CIA officer, anti terrorism experts and author. You spent 17 years in the CIA holding high profile positions across all four divisions of the agency, receiving 3 exceptional performance awards and a medallion for overseas covert operations. In 2011, you turn whistleblower to expose the CIA’s abuse of the state secrets privilege. Your new book, Twilight of the Shadow Government, How Transparency Will Kill the Deep State, looks at how the agency has strayed from its original mission to provide accurate intelligence to the American president. The book also exposes how the CIA exerts massive, unchecked control through secret alliances with Wall Street, big media, the drug trade, and even the blackmail of senior political leaders.

4:44 Brian Rose: Kevin, welcome to London Real.

4:46 Kevin Shipp: Thanks for having me, great to be here.

4:48 Brian Rose: Kevin, great to have you here. I just wanted to cut straight to it. Let’s say you got a phone call, you know, right after this episode from Mar A Lago. And they said, Kevin, we need you down here to brief the president and they pull you into his office and you got 20 minutes, one-on-one with him.

5:05 Maybe Elon’s there, too. And he says, look, Kevin, you got 20 minutes. What do I need to know when I go in there? Based on everything you know, what are my blind spots? What is the one or two or three things that I keep? I need to have an eye out so I can get what I need to get done in the next 4 years.

5:26 What would you tell him?

5:28 Kevin Shipp: Well, yeah, he and John Ratcliffe, who he’s appointed and I think a good one, appointed to be director of the CIA. First of all, I would say you have to understand that the upper 20% of the CIA does not believe in democracy and they believe in the perpetuation and the power of the CIA. And even among Mike Pompeo when he came out said that himself. So I would say be very careful with the CIA.

5:54 And when Rat Ratcliffe gets in there, I’d ask the president to give him all the support that he needs and have his back. Because they’re going to be some people on the upper floors that are going to have their knives out and they’re very slick how they do it. And they’re, they’re going to try to eradicate, eradicate Ratcliffe and and resist everything that Trump does. Unless Trump makes sure that Ratcliffe appoints a proper deputy director of the CIA, one from the outside, the their chief operating officer needs to be replaced so that they don’t control or make the bureaucracy, the CIA bureaucracy work against them.

6:30 They’re going to have to clean. House at the. At the upper levels of the CIA, 1st and and put people that are in line with the change in the reform that the CIA desperately needs. It is been conducting covert operations since under the National Security Act in 1947 and it has been running bloody covert operations and coups, sometimes without the President’s knowledge. Many times many operations without the President’s knowledge or Congress. And that needs to be stopped.

6:59 And the covert operational authority of the CI needs to be removed and the CIA needs to be just reformed back to what true Truman intended. I’ve been having conversations back and forth with Bobby Kennedy Junior, who agrees with me 100% that that’s that’s the first approach to take.

7:16 Brian Rose: Yes, I had Bobby on the show in 2020 when everything was kicking off with COVID and lockdown. And I still remember my conversation with Bobby because I was, I was ready to get the vaccine. And I, you know, I got a degree from MIT, which I don’t think helps me because I think I was blinded by the science a little bit, Kevin.

7:36 And so he walked me through everything from the 1986 act that removed the liability. And I was struck by this man with a obviously a legendary family name, but who at the same time was extremely intelligent. And at the end of that, I, he pretty much convinced me not to do this. This was by the way, in May of 2020. And I I further had him back on when he published his book the real Anthony Fauci. And then to watch everything that’s happened in the last year or so.

8:03 I mean, it’s like a superhero’s Avenger movie really it and maybe even proof we’re in a simulation here, this dream team that’s been exposed. But I know Bobby likes to quote I think JFK, who I believe said that that that agent should should be scattered into a million pieces. I believe that’s what he said after the Bay of Pigs and the pressure that he got. Am I quoting that right? And does Bobby really feel that way because of his uncle’s really vehemence for that agency?

8:32 Kevin Shipp: Absolutely, he feels that way 100% and so do I. I wrote a section for his book The Real Anthony Fauci, especially about the CIS role in the COVID propaganda and lockdowns which were developed by the CIA at Johns Hopkins University, ready to be rolled out. And when the when the when COVID? Hit the CIA along with the Fosse and others, rolled out that censorship propaganda program that was already developed. Bobby and I, we, this is how we became friends.

9:02 We’re both on the same page about eliminating the covert operational authority, the CIA, and we’re both convinced I am. Certainly he is 100% that the CI was certainly involved in the assassination of his uncle JFK. And there there are some very odd facts about his, the death of his own father. And there was a cover up there because there was a second shooter. And I’m not exaggerating.

9:24 I’m an investigator. I used to, I used to teach criminal investigations. And if you do a real criminal investigation on the Bobby Kennedy senior murder, you’ll find that there’s two shooters.

9:35 Brian Rose: Yeah, I know there was 8 bullets from a gun was 6. And I, I, there’s a lot of big questions there. And when it comes to censorship, we can definitely talk about it later.

9:45 We really felt the brunt of that during COVID. And on April 6th, 2020, we actually had the second largest YouTube live stream in the world talking about masks and distancing and vaccines. And 30 minutes later, that video was deleted and banned for the first time in my 9 year broadcast history. And Kevin, I, I was shocked. I was shocked. I was a partner at YouTube.

10:09 I had all that and we went down a pretty dark Rd. we had, we made a whole movie about this called We Will Not Be Silenced that talks about what happened. And later I got to meet Mike Benz and he kind of explained some of the things behind the scene that was going on with the government. But Kevin, I didn’t get that it was the government. I thought it was YouTube. And I remember people trying to say that Alphabet has investments in the vaccine companies and it never really made sense to me.

10:34 But of course, later with Twitter Files and then with people like you out there, we can see that there’s probably a lot of the people in the government that we’re doing that. Look, I’d love to talk about that. But with Trump, you know, I don’t know much about the CIA, but obviously you’ve got a bunch of professionals whose job it is to do things covertly, to play with people’s minds to, to get people to think one thing is happening when in fact something else is happening.

11:02 You know, when you go into a place like that, it just seems like the most impossible place to try to clean up, get straight answers, find out what’s going on because you’re you’re dealing with seems like a bunch of shape shifters. Is that what it’s like or is that not what it’s like? And, and, and can Trump really get stuff done in there, do you think?

11:23 Kevin Shipp: That is what it’s like. And you know, the, the CIA, the entire organization, its whole mission is deception, propaganda, covert operations and coups. And I think the CI has been responsible for the death of some 7 million people.

11:36 When I got in there, went into operations collecting human intelligence overseas on behalf of the Counterterrorism Center. You know, I saw the ugly way that the CIA does things. There is no morality in the CIA. And, and I think people probably know that if they don’t, they need to. There is no morality in the CIA. Human life is cheap.

11:55 They don’t care about that. They care about the, the perpetuation of the global juggernaut that is the CIA. So to stand up internally and try to do something about that, I, I, I, I suppose I’m probably a good example of that. They will come after you with a vengeance. Fortunately, I was trained by them.

12:13 I was then them so I was 2 steps ahead every time, but they really, really tried to erase me. And that that of course, is is the subject of the book, one of the chapters. So no, inside it, it’s it’s full of well, I had a buddy who was a case officer and he got out and we were talking and I said, yeah, you know, some of these guys in the field, especially at the management level, are snakes. And he wrote back and said, you got that totally wrong. I said, what do you mean?

12:39 He goes, that’s to call them a snake is a compliment. They’re lower than that. So it’s pretty bad. Now I have to say this too. I’m talking about the 20% upper in, in the upper covert levels of the CI, the ones that run the covert operations from the director down to the director of operations. The other 80% of the CIA are good, hard working Americans, patriotic Americans that love their country. And they’re, they’re working to, to provide for their families and, and you know, they’re good people. They they have no idea what’s going on in the upper. Levels.

13:11 Brian Rose: And so Radcliffe’s going in. Your advice to Trump is to support him, help him get a good deputy clean house? That’s the advice.

13:20 Kevin Shipp: Yes, and, and as a matter of fact, I sent this to Bobby Kennedy and he agreed. And I understand that my recommendations have gone to the administration. You know, humbly, the first thing is that the National Security Act of 1947 broadly gave the CIA the authority to conduct covert operations and without any restrictions. And then the National Security Council Act of National Security Council Directive 10/2 in 1948 allowed the CIA to engage in any covert operations as long as the government could engage in what is still called plausible denial that U.S. government could deny that they had anything to do with it. So they gave the CIA unlimited power for propaganda, economic warfare, sabotage, subversion, and of course penetration of the news media.

14:10 And the CIA with a, with a secret budget of now billions ran with that and really became its own government. That’s why I call it the shadow government. It has become its own government and it’s manipulating our elected government. So the National Security Act of 1947 needs to be to be rewritten and eliminate the covert authority of the CIA. The National Security Council directive 10/2 needs to also be written and and remove the covert operational authority of the CIA.

14:38 You do those two. Excuse me? He engages in those two and he’s cut the head off the Viper totally. And and based on the input I’ve gotten back, they’re they’re taking that into consideration.

14:54 Brian Rose: Kevin, is there any downside to doing that?

14:58 Kevin Shipp: Well, we have to make sure, you know, we have, we have enemies overseas and countries that want to destroy our democracy and our way of life. That’s that’s just a fact. I was out there amongst in in areas where there were terrorists and, and a lot of anti American sentiment. And you know, they want this country destroyed. We need a good intelligence agency.

15:18 And, and I think that part should be moved over to the Defense Intelligence Agency, which is already doing it, the Office of Strategic Services, which was the CIA predecessor, they were under the DoD doing the DIA work. So we, we should take the covert operational part of it, move it over to the DIA, and then keep the parts of the CIA that Truman intended. For example, the Directorate of Intelligence. I was trained by them in, in, in analysis and they’re phenomenal. They take the intelligence, they they, they plan what intelligence needs to be gathered. They analyze satellite data and provide amazingly accurate information to the president and the polymakers. So those parts.

15:58 Need to remain and we, we, we need that part of intelligence. And then we do need the covert operational arm, but with restrictions which will be delineated to the Defense Intelligence Agency of what they can and cannot do. And then, of course, make it criminal penalties if they engage in covert operations without the president or Congress knowing it or that involved human rights violations, murder, et cetera.

16:23 Brian Rose: It sounds like the whole theme of this administration is the fact that so many areas of government have have grown way beyond what their original intention was. And people say if the founding fathers could see what was actually happening with all these agencies, they would just be turning over in their graves.

16:41 And you’ve got Vivek and Elon going in there with the Department of Government Efficiency. But it sounds like what you’re suggesting with the CIA is just another version of that. It’s an agency that started off with a purpose. That purpose is now morphed and then grown to where that agency is now running the show and the tail is wagging the dog and and it’s so powerful that it’s very hard to even stop this growth from taking over the Organism. I don’t know if you call it a cancer.

17:10 It seems like it’s a theme across everything in government. Am I wrong?

17:14 Kevin Shipp: No, you’re, you’re absolutely right. And we, I think many of us know the nature of government is if it’s not held accountable and transparent to the people, government, especially secret government will go go wrong every single time. It’s the nature of the beast. And that’s how the CIA has been able to pull this off and, and do this.

17:32 You know, we have intelligence oversight committees, but they’re compromised by the CIA too. They have to have ACIA clearance to, to be on the intelligence oversight committee. So the CIA controls their clearance. The CIA only provides them in information that the CIA wants them to see. And more often than not, if not all the time, the congressmen and senators on the intelligence committees, they know that to deeply investigate the CI would be the end of their career.

18:00 They also focus mainly on getting reelected and domestic politics that will get them reelected. And the intelligence committees are the committees that meet the least of any other committee during the year. So they’re, they’re essentially a sham. They’re not. They’re not going to do it.

18:17 So we’ve got to depend on the current administration to go in and make some changes. And I think oversight, intelligence oversight needs to be taken away from the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee and put into an outside organization that is not compromised by the CIA or by the need to get votes and reelected. And I’ll finalize that point with this. Senator Frank Church was the last senator to scrutinize the CI. And you remember the church committees and all the ugly things that came out of that, which were just the tip of the iceberg.

18:49 The CIA contacted Church and said, if you keep this up, we’re going to destroy you. Well, he, he was a very good honest man. He had presidential ambitions, you know, and, but, but he was an honest man. There’s a book just published called The Last Honest Man, which people I think we should read, and it’s about Frank Church. Well, the CIA followed through on their their promise and they defamed and discredited Frank Church. And three of the witnesses that were going to testify to the Church Committee were murdered before they could testify. And then Frank Churches was maligned and he lost his election.

19:23 And that was the end of his political, political career. And it was over him. So, so on the on the select committees, these congressmen and senators know that if they dare expose anything that the CI has been doing, it’ll be the end of their political career as a congressman or a senator.

19:41 Brian Rose: What makes you think Trump can pull it off, and what’s the probability that he does it?

19:46 Kevin Shipp: The great thing about Trump is now he’s sometimes like a bull in the China shop.

19:51 You know, he’s, he’s certainly out of the ordinary. But the thing that is good about Trump is the reason that they hate him so much and have tried to do all, all of these Russiagate and all these other illegal operations. He cannot be controlled by them. And that’s why he’s the right man for the job, despite all of his failures and, you know, blemishes. They cannot control him.

20:18 That’s why they’ve been trying so hard to stop him and remove him because they know when he gets in there, they’ve got a. Whole. Procedure well developed on how to schmooze a presidential candidate, starting with their briefings before they get in office and then opening up only what they want the president to see and say. See, Sir, This is why we do what we do. It’s very important. And you you need to back and by the president that way who’s already busy and and and usually will say to the CIA like the last two administrations, OK, you just go do what you want. You know, over to you on that one. Well, Trump is not going to do that. And that is why 42 again, the same 42 and senior intelligence officers and, and the deputy director of the CIA, Mike Morell have again written a letter stating and all of them signing that Donald Trump is a threat to America and A and a threat to democracy.

21:09 The same 42 that claimed, excuse me, Hunter Biden’s laptop was Russia disinformation when they knew darn well it wasn’t. So there’s those and so many other indicators will will tell us that they are terrified of him because they cannot control him.

21:25 Brian Rose: Are you worried about his safety? Donald Trump’s safety. Yes. And, and Bobby Kennedy too.

21:31 Kevin Shipp: Absolutely. I mean, they, they have got to have the best security ever really around both of them. And, and yeah, they, they, they will try, based on the history of what I’ve seen in the CIA, they will try to get rid of them because the CIA knows it could be their demise. So they’re under serious threat. And I think they know that.

21:55 I know Bobby knows it. They know that and, and, and so I think they’re acting accordingly and, and putting in some really super security around them because yeah, they’re, I think their lives, their lives are in danger.

22:08 Brian Rose: You know, between so many things that Donald Trump wants to change or shut down and the doge and everything, I mean, you’re talking about trillions and trillions of dollars and you’re talking about, you know, all these operations and all this business as usual. It’s just a mass that, you know, doesn’t want to to, to die. It doesn’t want to be disintegrated, and you don’t have to.

22:30 You don’t have to believe in conspiracy theories to just know that something that’s alive wants to stay alive and it’s going to fight, fight, fight to just stay relevant, right?

22:42 Kevin Shipp: Absolutely. I mean, we’re talking a global juggernaut that is connected directly to Wall Street and has been since its founding. And in the book we talk about George Tenet’s executive officer Buzzy Alvin Buzzy Krongaard, who claimed that he came in just to be a patriot and only accept a, a dollar. I think to to do it a dollar a year I think it was or something like that.

23:08 Like he like he was a complete pager. Well we have a whole chapter on old Buzzy and some of the nefarious things he did and he as he claimed this was his first interaction with the CI and George tenant it was his buddy and asked him to come in. Turns out Buzzy Kroengard has been connected to the CI going back years. And was just covering that up. So what we are talking a monster here with multiple tentacles in into Wall Street, the military industrial con complex and what I call the secret industrial intelligence complex. And those are the CIA contractors. Massive ones.

23:41 Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and all of those others which way even way back then, despised John F Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy Senior and wanted them out too because they were starting to scrutinize their their corrupt practices. So you got all of that, this, this entire huge monster that’s got to be dismantled, probably, probably nothing the biggest and most important effort in our government in U.S. history. It’s just incredible we get to watch this in real time and the whole world is watching as well.

24:16 Brian Rose: There was definitely a lot of anxiety over here in Europe. I spend time in the Middle East.

24:22 All eyes were on this election. I’m still pinching myself to make sure it actually happened when I wake up. Yeah. Me too. Kevin, you had said, quote, I make the distinction, I make a distinction between the shadow government and the deep state, UN quote. We’re we’re seeing these terms thrown around a lot lately. I was wondering if you could explain the difference between those two.

24:45 Kevin Shipp: Certainly the shadow government I consider is the CIA and it is manipulating our elected government and we talked about this in the book. It manipulates Congress, it manipulate manipulates the judiciary and it manipulates the White House. So that is the shout of government actually controlling and manipulating our elected government. The deep state is this big monster billing multi billion dollar monster like the Department of State for example and all the connections to the military industrial complex companies which are huge and massive. Their CE OS make 27.1 on average $27.1 million a year. They’re monsters.

25:27 They have lobbyists that lobby Congress big time if those congressmen and senators want to get reelected. So that’s the deep state. It isn’t. It is a big operational system designed to influence congressional and and Senate senator representatives, influence their reelection and influence the rest of our government. Now the two are joined at the hip. The and this is just what I’ve seen from the inside and I did work for both Department of State when I ran their anti terrorism assistance program, police training. They are separate entities primarily because of the CI as. Unique control over government.

26:07 But they’re joined together and they work together and they interact, especially stating the CIA basically like Siamese twins. So that’s the deep state and the shadow government. And they’re, they’re, I, I consider them separate entities, but they’re both connected obviously in, in doing the things that ultimately like Ukraine, for example, Department of State was in there. Helping the CIA with a coup in Ukraine. Prime example. They do work together.

26:36 Brian Rose: Let’s talk about 3 global hotspots. You mentioned Ukraine, I’d love to talk about Iran and then what’s going on in Israel and how you think the CIA has been involved and, and maybe how how to solve some of those situations. Let’s start with Ukraine. Can you talk about a brief history there and how the CIA was involved? And also, what do you think Trump should do?

27:00 Kevin Shipp: Yeah, great question.

27:01 From the very beginning, CIA Director John Brennan, who who really was a A, is a dark figure. CIA John Brennan was making secret trips into Ukraine to help organize and set up the coup. Now then, the Ukrainian government was democratically elected. And that’s what the proponents of the war tend to leave out. And secondly, the United States government had signed an agreement with Russia, including NATO, that we would not place any NATO forces near their border or any US bases near their border.

27:31 Well, we just, we violated that behind their backs. John Brennan went in there to help set up the coup. And then the diabolical Department of State, Victoria, Newland. Was in there working with George Soros NGOs to help the the overthrow in the coup also and and put in place Zelensky as as the their candidate of choice and that that’s how that went down. I think Trump is the person to to stop that, and I think he’s also the person to get to get all of them to a peace deal table first. By taking Ukraine off of its aim and and other countries aim to put it in into NATO.

28:16 That’s we, we made an agreement, we signed it with Russia. We need to go back to that agreement and assure them that we’re not going to put NATO. Troops or forces or anything or, or Ukraine and NATO on their border. We, we have to do that. We never should have done that in the 1st place. That’s what causes this mess.

28:33 So I, I think Trump knowing that and plus his cabinet appointees knowing that, I think he could go in and negotiate between the two based on what I just told you and some of the illegal things, I think we’re done there. That started a bloody war. And as I’ve said, I said on a recent interview, the CIA could care less about human life. They do not care about human life one bit. They want to take over Ukraine. They want their their puppet government in Ukraine with Zelensky.

29:05 And they don’t care about the thousands and thousands of young men on both sides that have been killed in this bloody war. And they could care less. They just want to rule. They just want to rule, rule, rule Ukraine. So that’s all got to be reversed.

29:20 And it’s got to be reversed by going to the table with both Russia and Ukraine, making some demands from the US on both sides, but especially to go back to that deal where we will not put NATO troops on Russia’s border like we agreed to and signed to.

29:35 Brian Rose: And of course, war is good for business. Is that always that the default in the CIA, like we might as well, you know, provide arms, you know, and still conflicts because this has been a big cash cow for so many different parties.

29:48 Is is that also something that’s high on their on their interests?

29:52 Kevin Shipp: Oh, it’s prior to #1 if you go back through the history of the CIA over and over and over, the CIA has started a war to ingratiate the military industrial complex. And if if you if you look at each one, invariably they just came right out and admitted this about, about Ukraine, invariably it’s about getting that country’s oil like Iran or getting their their minerals. And Lindsey Graham just came out.

30:19 I don’t know if he realized what he was saying, but it just came out and well, all this money we’ve spent in Ukraine, we’re going to get back by getting their minerals. So he came right out and blew the the covert operation. Yes, the CI has been doing that since its inception. Over and over. It’s the same thing, war, the military industrial complex gets rich and then we go in and we try to get the oil. In the minerals and if you go back and look at history of, of the CIS operations and coups, it’s been the same pattern over and over and over.

30:48 And you would think reasonably that these these people are fools because these these coups that they staged backfire and things wind up being worse than they were before. And they do it again and then it backfires. Then they do it again that it back like Iraq, like Afghanistan. I mean, you could go on and on and on. They don’t care about the consequences. They have one single demonic mission to overthrow that country and take their natural resources.

31:15 Brian Rose: And I want to go back through history in just a second, just a couple other current events as far as areas, Iran and then in the Israel conflict.

31:23 How has the CIA been involved in those things? And again, how could Trump put those things to rest or alleviate them?

31:32 Kevin Shipp: Yeah, Iran is a mess. If you remember, Iran was a democratically elected government and Iran had a lot of oil that the US is just taking. And Iran decided, wait a minute, we’re giving all this oil to, to the the US. We want to nationalize this and we, we want to make the profit for our people off our own oil.

31:54 Well, they signed their death note there. CIA went in, staged the coup, got rid of the democratically elected government to get the oil back, put in the Shah who is a tyrannical puppet and the people knew it, who eventually got fed up with him, removed him. And then what do we get? The Khomeini regime and, and the number one chief state, state sponsor of terrorism in the world. So the CI says, well, if you try to reform us, then you’re going to hurt the terrorism effort in protecting America and the world.

32:26 Excuse me, You started much of the terrorist cells. They they, the CIA created al Qaeda and bin Laden. The CIA created ISIS. The CIA created the Free Syrian. Army which is an Islamic revolutionary army the the CIA has has in in the past worked directly with mob mob killers and mafia figures. So it is just so dirty.

32:49 It’s beyond imagination. And why is it dirty? It’s because they do it all in secret, because they have that authority. Take that authority away. And the last part of our book, of course, is how transparency will kill the deep state. That transparency is removing the cloak of secrecy from the CIA and then opening up what they’re doing to Congress and the American people.

33:10 Brian Rose: Powerful, very powerful. If you look back in history, what would you say are the three to four, you know, most egregious abuses the CIA, you know, did? Maybe it’s the JFK assassination. I don’t know. Maybe it’s the Vietnam War.

33:26 I don’t know. What comes to mind for you that you would like to highlight to people about what the CIA has done?

33:34 Kevin Shipp: Certainly I think it’s the Vietnam War. I don’t know if if your audience realizes this, but the the Vietnam War was started by AUS false flag. the US claimed that they started the war because they on radar, they had Vietnamese ships heading towards this, this US naval vessel and and these Vietnamese boats were going to try to destroy this US vessel.

34:00 Well, it turns out that never happened, and the CIA doctored the radar and put those boats on there when there was no attack from Vietnam. And they started the war based on that, based on a lie, which is what they do best. The CIA and the military industrial complex stood to make a trillion dollars off that war alone. And it’s one of the reasons that they despise JF, despise JFK. They were going to lose a lot of money.

34:25 And also what the CIA did, which is, which is genocide. And I think it’s a well, it is, it’s a crime against humanity is they started what’s called the Phoenix operation where they created the special assassination pistols. And they they armed the Vietnamese who were friendly with the US and some U.S. troops with these pistols. And they went into into cities and to Vietnamese civilians who were only suspected that they may have ties to the Communist Party, just suspected knock on their door, they’d open the door and then they’d assassinate him. And a lot of times they assassinated the person and his wife and his children.

35:03 The CIA killed 40,000 Vietnamese civilians that way. I think that’s the biggest abomination of of many, but that’s the biggest abomination that the CIA has has engaged in.

35:14 Brian Rose: You know, we always hear these rumors of the CIA being involved in the in the drug trade. And I, I don’t know if it started there in Vietnam, but you know, I’ve always heard these stories and, you know, you talk about it a little bit in the group. Can you talk about the history of the CIA with drugs and then why they would do that?

35:34 Kevin Shipp: Oh yeah, we got a whole chapter in 20, the shadow government on that to get around. Congress especially doing covert operations that Congress would not approve. Ted Shaklee. Ted Shaklee is is in our book and he ran this whole operation. They created what you could call a private CIA where they took. Millions and millions of drug money and, and ran it through Vietnam and and this also goes all the way up to the Iran Contra where they’re running cocaine in the United States. But in this case, they took that drug money and they inserted it to, they were making money without Congress knowing it because they had budget restrictions. So they created their own budget and they were taking this cocaine and they were selling it in, in LA on the streets, especially in black areas, in into bars and pubs and things like that and making money off of that. That did happen.

36:27 And, and we document that in the book. The CI has been involved in drug running since its inception and it it has been billions of dollars. And that’s how they funded a lot of these coups and a lot of these covert operations. Outside of their approved budget by Congress. It’s just like, it’s just incredible, incredible that that happens.

36:46 Brian Rose: What else would be next on your list? Trump has said he will make public all of the documents surrounding the JFK assassination. First of all, do you think he will follow through on that? And second of all, what do you think specifically we’ll learn?

37:01 Kevin Shipp: Well, I hate to let everybody down and I think Trump will do that. And I know Bobby Kennedy because Bobby Kennedy’s got the guts to do it.

37:09 And that’s what you need. But you, you got to understand that when the CIA did this operation, as they’ve done many before, like MK Ultra, prime example, soon as the operation was done, they destroyed all the files. You know, they didn’t have this elaborate plan to kill JFK and then then say, OK, now that it’s done, let’s make sure that we retain our records. You know, no, they’re gone. They’ll never, they’ll never get those records.

37:32 The 5000 are probably innocuous stuff, kind of kind of tandemly on the outside, but it’s not the real thing. They were destroyed and and they’re never, they’re never going to be seen by anyone. MK Ultra is a is an excellent example of torture mind control program. Just before the Church Commission, Richard Helms, the director of the CI, destroyed 10,000 documents and videos involving MK Ultra before the Church Committee could get their hands on them. So these documents are destroyed.

38:04 Brian Rose: What will we learn anything about that JFK assassination and what do you think happened or what do you know happened?

38:12 Kevin Shipp: We, we are starting to through some good investigative work. We do know now that the CIA, James Angleton, who was another dark figure, their head of counterintelligence. James Angleton had created it, what’s called a 2O1 file on Lee Harvey Oswald.

38:28 So he was ACIA asset before, well before the Kennedy’s assassination. And part of that program with the two O 1 file under Angleton was a program called ZR Rifle. And with ZR Rifle Angleton was collecting the names of assets, double agents and others that if they decided that they, they weren’t playing by the, the rules or, or the goal of the CIA was after they would go in and they would assassinate that person. And they had a 2O1 file on, on Oswald. And it’s funny how things come out because they they found found out Oswald was on the CIA payroll in Japan from the CIA stations accounting office, which where the CIA forgot to look to destroy documents.

39:12 And they have the, the payment receipts that the CIA paid to Oswald as an as ACI asset. Jack Ruby was running guns to Cuba on ACIA gun running program with the mafia. So there, there are so many facts now that are coming out that indicate clearly that the CIA was involved in that in conjunction with the mafia. But the CIA run ran the program and the and the most and this stuff gets so ridiculous, but people believe it if they hear it enough. So Allen Dulles was the arch enemy of John F Kennedy.

39:45 Allen Dulles, the first CIA director, and he’s the one that smuggled the Nazis in and falsified their files to President Truman. Dulles ran these Nazi s s scientists and who, by the way, started NASA in a rocket program. He he smuggled them into the United States illegally. And and so from its inception, the CI was already doing secret programs without the knowledge of the president. Well, JFK got fed up with that.

40:15 He got fed up with not being told everything about the Bay of Pigs. And Kennedy was also trying to establish relations with Castro and he had become relatively close to Khrushchev because they, neither one of them wanted annihilation through nuclear war. So but the CIA wanted to, to depose Castro. Nuclear war or not, they could care less. They just, they just want to win basically their mission.

40:41 So JFK said, that’s when he said, I’m going to take the CIA and I’m going to splitter, splinter it into 1000 pieces because they’d gone behind his back and done this. And and of course, that put a target on his back because of that. And Allen Dulles, the one who started it, the CIA director, guess who they put in charge of the Warren Commission? Allen Dulles, The CIA ran the Warren Commission and they used the CIA secrecy agreement to threaten CIA employees that they couldn’t talk about anything classified or based on that secrecy agreement, they would go to prison. So nobody would testify from the CIA. And the ones that they let through were coached by Dulles to the Warren Commission, so the CIA had control of the entire thing.

41:26 Brian Rose: It’s fascinating. And then a few years later, there was a president called Nixon who had to leave the office because apparently, even though he was way ahead in the polls and had a seriously commanding lead, he was sending a couple of goofballs in to spy on the Democrats. Can you talk about what actually happened and was the CIA involved there?

41:51 Kevin Shipp: Yes, they certainly were. We have a chapter in the book on that.

41:56 Nixon had to come out and and said Nixon had seen what the CIA had done and he had come out and publicly said that he’s he’s thinking of doing something about the CIA, that that it’s doing things that that are not illegal. That’s the first thing. The second thing is Bob Woodward, the alleged greatest journalist of all time. We have a whole chapter and old Bob in our book who claims that he was never involved in intelligence and within six months he did. He joined the Washington Post with the within six months he had the greatest sources and came out with the the Watergate investigation, quote UN quote.

42:36 Well, it turns out Bob Woodward has been an intelligence officer going all the way back to Alexander Haig and a joint effort to try to remove Nixon from office because he wasn’t playing with the the the rules of the National Security Council and the intelligence community. So Haig and Woodward briefed regularly and Woodward had a top secret clearance way back then. Now he he leaves all of that out of his bio. But in the book, we document every single source that proves that he was an intelligence officer going way back then.

43:09 And I remember when I was a protective agent on the staff of of Director William Casey, we would sit there. We are. We are responsible for letting whoever was proper in to see the director. It was a very specific process. And Bob Woodward was visiting William Casey all the time. William Casey hated the press.

43:31 I mean, he despised the press except for Bob Woodward, who he met with regularly. We are, we’re all shaking our heads like, what’s this? Deal with him and Woodward for goodness sake. Well, now we know Woodward was intelligence and Casey knew it. And it’s funny too, because but some of the book Veil is false. And I can talk about that, but, but Bill Casey gave Woodward some specific classified information he wanted him to put in his book Veil that he wanted to get out in a propaganda fashion to the American people.

44:02 So there is some classified stuff from William Casey in there. However, Woodward claims that he got into Georgetown University Hospital when Bill Casey was on his deathbed from terminal brain cancer, which did indeed happen. I was there. I I saw the tumor. Run the CTS and everything so they didn’t whisk him off some island secretly, as some people have said.

44:24 But Woodward claims in the book Veil Secret Words to the CIA that he was able to get into Casey’s hotel room, and Casey admitted his. Role in Iran Contra, complete fabrication. What Woodward didn’t bank on was me coming out, having my cover rolled back, being a whistle blower, being able to talk about this stuff. Bob Woodward tried to get in to see Casey, but we caught him and gracefully showed him the exit and he never came back. Not only that, the tumor had affected the part of his brain that controls speech and he couldn’t even talk.

44:56 It is a complete fabrication in his book and there are other books that he’s written. What he’ll do is he’ll fabricate something brilliant, really attention getting, and then he’ll put some real stuff in the book, kind of pack it around it. That’s a classic design of deception.

45:13 Brian Rose: Yeah. You’ve got 80% truth and 20% lie.

45:16 Kevin Shipp: And that’s in my humble opinion, that’s what Bob Woodward does. But I can tell you he never got in that room. I was there.

45:23 It’s a bold faced lie. Even William Casey’s wife Sophia, we are close to said he never got in there and she was with him all the time time. We have a whole chapter on him and the the effort to try to remove Richard Nixon from the presidency, and it involved Bob Woodward, who briefed Alexander Haig regularly.

45:42 Brian Rose: It’s amazing. Then you make an Academy award-winning film with Dustin Hoffman and Robert Redford and you seal it.

45:49 Seal it in people’s brains as this amazing young journalists, you know, uncovering this presidential scandal and then now decades decades later, we look even deeper on this and it. And it just makes me wonder what was going through Nixon’s mind, you know, when when all this is happening when he was one of the most popular presidents ever, I think in America. Do you think he did, he ever thought, how can I fight this? Or is it just impossible to fight the CIA back then because there was no Internet? There’s no independent media.

46:22 There’s no way to go against this narrative that they carefully constructed.

46:27 Kevin Shipp: It was impossible to fight them and they built their whole operation and false documentation and leaked everything out there to the press. And and there was no way, there was just no way he he was going to be impeached based on what they’d fed everyone. And so he resigned because essentially this was a coup inside the United States government by Hague and, and Woodward participated as kind of Hague’s Courier man. And, and it’s funny, Woodward had no reporting experience when he joined the Washington Post.

47:00 And all of a sudden in six months, he, he had Deep Throat, who turns out to be Mark Felt, the deputy director of the FBI, who was kind of disgruntled. So within in within six months, Woodward had access to all these top sources in the FBI and intelligence community connections and Mark felt became Deep Throat to Woodward, who later on would admit that’s that’s who it was. It’s clearly who it was. And yet Woodward got this access and he had no journalistic experience and only been there for a few months.

47:31 Even bread Ben Bradley said he had nightmares that the stuff that Woodward was feeding him was was false. He’d stay up at night, you know, could just because he put all these things together and it it’s not possible for a young journalist to get that kind of access at that level.

47:50 Brian Rose: Credible Kevin, what is MK Ultra and is it still going on today?

47:54 Kevin Shipp: MK Ultra was a secret mind control program by the CIA, about as about as dark and evil as you can get. They were administrating, administering LSD.

48:04 They started with prisoners and inmates and then they went on to people in mental. Hospitals. Experimenting with huge doses of LSD and and then watching the reaction and and watching how they responded under interrogation. So it was twofold. One, it was designed to create assassins, that they could control the Assassin’s mind by altering their memory so that the assassin would go in to kill somebody and then they wouldn’t remember a thing about it. That was the first part.

48:34 The second part was interrogations. They wanted to find a way where they can interrogate somebody and their their brain had been so taken over by drugs and several different types of drugs. And then they would just confess what they did. That was the second name. So Ted Kaczynski, for example, went through 200 hours of MK Ultra and looking, look at what happened to him. There’s a lot of people were it just went bad. We find out now that the Haight Ashbury Clinic, back in the hippie days, they were providing free medical attention to the hippie types and Haight Ashbury had an office next door and they allowed a fellow called Jolly W Lewis. Well, Jolly W Lewis it turns out, had direct connections to Doctor Sidney Gottlieb, the madman who created MK Ultra. And Jolly W Lewis had an office right next to Haight Ashbury where they would have, they would set up kind of little hippie meetings and some of the meetings would be grad students from USUCLA and, and the others would, would be real hippies. And then, then they would hit him real hard with LSD and then watch what happened to them.

49:49 Well, it turns out Charles Manson and the girls regularly went to Hate Ashbury. And one of the employees interviewed said, oh, Oh yeah, they, they, they visit, visited the West. Jolly W Lewis, they visited Manson and the girls visited West all the time. So we have this bizarre connection with Hate Hate Ashbury and MK Ultra Office. Which was definitely an MK Ultra office right next to Hate Ashbury and that Manson and the girls had visited there. As bizarre as that can get, Jolly W Lewis denied having any involvement with MK Ultra and matter of fact, he threatened. To sue anybody that said he did.

50:26 But a good journalist by the name of Tom O’Neill went to UCLA into Jolly W Lewis’s files after he passed away. And they let him go through them. And he found correspondence in there between him and the mad scientist, Doctor Sidney Gottlieb, the godfather of MK Ultra, going back and forth about conducting the program and how they were going to, quote UN quote, move it out into the field away from these clinics. And so he was MK. No, no question about it. Tom O’Neill did a fantastic job of investigation and proved that those two were connected in MK Ultra. So that was the the purpose of MK Ultra. And just the tip of the iceberg of MK Ultra came out because CIA Director Richard Helms destroyed 10,000, as I mentioned early, destroyed all the documents relating to MK Ultra and the horrible things they were doing to people. It involved, of course, large amounts of LSD, mescaline. It involved torture, sex abuse, thermal thermal torture, looking at being put in cold rooms.

51:31 So essentially it was a it was a mind controlled torture program that the CIA was doing without anybody knowing it until Frank Church had his committee. It’s it’s mind blowing.

52:38 Brian Rose: Tell me about project Mockingbird.

52:41 Kevin Shipp: Project Mockingbird, if you can believe it. Once again, good old Allen Dulles and Philip and Katherine Graham, the creators of the Washington Post, started Operation Mockingbird to seed CIA stories into the US news media. They had over 400 journalists on the CIA payroll. The CIA would give them articles to print and they would print it in Washington Post.

53:07 New York Times, Life magazine would print this stuff in their periodicals, not attributing it to the to the CIA. And they did that for for years. And of course that came out in churches committee that the CIA was doing that. There was such an outrage, national outrage about the CI planning stories in the US media that they had a hearing. Well, here comes George HW Bush out of the blue, who claims he didn’t have any CIA involvement until they put him in then as director for six months. George HW Bush was a long time CI operative. So all of a sudden they appoint George HW Bush is the CIA director.

53:51 He was only there six months, but to handle Operation Mockingbird. So there was a press conference and people can Google this. Bush came out with a statement on behalf of the CIA that the CIA will no longer pay journalists for stories and US newspapers. But then people missed the second part of his statement. From now on, it will just be voluntary.

54:13 The CIA has all kinds of ways to make something voluntary a necessity. And so Mockingbird continued all the way up until today, where the Washington Post routinely still receives information from the CIA. And when I first came out of the CI for the first time to reveal my story because my family was poisoned on a base, I didn’t covered something they tried to cover up. That’s another story. When I went to the Washington Post, I said, listen, I’m coming up with a story here taking a personal risk. This is this is what happened.

54:47 And I wanted to see if you’re interested. Oh, yes, we’re interested. I’m not going to mention the journalist because he was being used and he eventually he was just beside himself, but his we started corresponding back and forth and he started asking me questions and the only answer was classified information that went on for 30 days, almost every day. And I said, what are you, what are you trying to do? You trying to get me to say something classified so I can get wrapped up or something?

55:12 He goes, I’m sorry, my editor is making me do this. I, I just have to do. And I said, listen to you, you print this within 24 hours or I’m going to the New York Times. And I’d contacted Charlie Savage at New York Times. He’d like give it to me, baby. I’ll put it out there.

55:27 So I had him standing by. Well, it turns out the Washington Post went directly to the CIA and reported my contact and reported what I said. And guess who this journalist who was trying to get classified information out of me Guess, guess who his editor was, Senior editor Bob Woodward. So I experienced Mockingbird from the very beginning. And if you remember the the Biden administration created what’s called the Trusted News Initiative.

55:57 And in the Trusted News Initiative, quote, UN quote, the CIA was able to convince the Washington Post, APUPI, and all four social media companies to sign an agreement with the director of National intelligence and the CIA that they would censor information that they were directed to censor if it was contrary to the government’s, what the government was putting out. And they signed the agreement. And talk about Mockingbird right in our face. And then, I mean, they’re getting so out in the front with all this because they think they have control of everything.

56:30 You remember that John Brennan is now the senior national security correspondent for MSNBC. Oh, but and James Clapper, the one who lied to the Senate committees. James Clapper is now the senior intelligence correspondent for CNN. So you got two of the most covert, diabolical, dirty leaders of the CIA that are now giving their intelligence analysis to these major news outlets and, and right in the face of everybody. So they’re not even trying to hide this anymore. We found out too also that Facebook had at least twelve former CIA officers working on their staff, looking at the algorithms and creating the algorithms and on and on and on we go.

57:20 So Mockingbird lives today on a voluntary basis and and they’re making that less than voluntary in in in ways that they can do just that.

57:29 Brian Rose: And I think when Elon Musk put out those Twitter Files, we saw a very similar set up at Twitter where, I mean, again, literally ex CIA people, Baker and all that were there and people were like, what is going on here? I mean, people were kind of shocked to see that, but that’s all been made public, ignored by the mainstream media, probably by direction, but we we saw a, a slice of that already, correct.

57:55 Kevin Shipp: Yep, that’s correct. Absolutely correct.

57:58 Brian Rose: Do you think that Trump will go in and force the publishing of the Facebook files and the YouTube files? Do you think he’s going to go in and and try to make all of that transparent or not?

58:09 Kevin Shipp: Yes, I do.

58:10 Yes I do. He, he’s got this fellow named Bobby Kennedy Junior who has every intent to do just that. And, and, Oh yeah, he will.

58:20 Brian Rose: So it’s just I had Rudy Giuliani in here about six weeks ago, 8 weeks ago here in London. And I’ve fascinating talking to Rudy.

58:29 I was, I was in New York City for 911 and we’ll talk about 9/11 too. And he was the first guy that actually could credibly walk me through the details of election interference, right down to the minutiae of what happened and what didn’t happen. This is from probably one of the one of the greatest attorneys and prosecutors, you know, that we’ve ever seen. And I, I was struck me as as I was thinking, Rudy, I’ve never heard this before. And of course I’ve never heard it before because as soon as it was brought up in any type of mainstream media, it was quickly condemned as, oh, you must be just ridiculous to be talking about that. But it did.

59:02 Anyways, at the end of the interview, I said, Rudy, if, if Trump’s, if Trump’s elected, will you go after Alphabet and get them to, to, to put my YouTube channel back because we were deep platform for having conversations like this. And he said, yes, I will, Brian. Now you bring up Bobby and I know Bobby has an axe to grind there because he was censored for so long. But of course he’s trying to make America healthy again. But of course he’s in that inner circle with Trump. So do you think Bobby will continue to have that influence over Trump to where he’ll go out and do the right things with the CIA and do the right things with the social media and big tech platforms?

59:37 Kevin Shipp: Absolutely. And basically the conversations he and I have had, that’s one of his biggest missions in life. I mean he lost his dad and his uncle. To, to, to. Them and you know you don’t forget those kinds of things and and he’s made it clear and when he gets in there any way he can he’s going to help do something about that. So yeah.

59:57 And you know putting him over Health and Human Services. Somebody pinched me. I think I’m dreaming you know getting that fellow with the long hair out of there and stop this woke baloney and put Bobby Kennedy in there. Who knows that that area of things, as you know with Children’s Health defense probably better than anybody so. That’s a great place for him to be.

1:00:19 But I guarantee you if Trump brings him into his cabinet and Cabinet meetings, new he’ll be he’ll be right in there with the other things involving the CIAI.

1:00:28 Brian Rose: I really hope that those files get published, because if you thought the Twitter files were illuminating, I think the YouTube files will be 10X that. Oh, yes, yes. And the Facebook files not far behind, you know, it’s, it’s stranger than fiction. I’ll be honest, Kevin, because as I said, in 2020, we were one of the first channels to be censored.

1:00:49 We were really having early conversations. And then I had, we had, we set up our own platform where we could stream because YouTube wouldn’t allow it. And I had Bobby Kennedy on then I had the members of the Great Barrington Declaration on Doctor Martin Kuldorf later. I had Jay Bhattacharya on. And then, you know, I had Bobby on later. And of course, you could never even publish this on any of the social platforms.

1:01:13 Every mainstream media outlet would just vilify Bobby’s name. And now here we are three or four years after that. And now these people are running the show with Jay now at NIH. And Bobby, you know, across everything, it’s it’s really incredible what’s happened. It’s hard to.

1:01:31 Kevin Shipp: Believe. Like I said, somebody pinched me. I think I’m dreaming. I’ve been fighting for this for 12 years, since I came out, you know, and I’m cautiously excited about all of this. And I understand a massive job they’ve got to do, but they’re the people to do it.

1:01:46 Brian Rose: Yeah, I am cautiously excited as well. I just, I’m just concerned because I know this is such a difficult thing to do.

1:01:52 I want to hit a couple other pieces you mentioned. Well, actually what I’d like to talk about is 911 and the Epstein list. How is the CIA involved in either those events or the suppression of the truth of those events?

1:02:09 Kevin Shipp: What we’ll start with Epstein, there’s no question that Epstein was ACIA Mossad asset and that’s what got him off in his first trial was Acosta who was the AG was told called by a member of the apparently the agency. He came out Acosta in a statement and said he was told to leave Epstein alone. He was intelligence and Epstein of course was connected to Robert Maxwell, who is a double agent, an intelligence agent that was Lane Maxwell’s father.

1:02:44 So there no question Jeffrey Epstein was ACI Mossad asset involved in a blackmail operation, No question whatsoever.

1:02:53 Brian Rose: Now Kevin, you say CIA, Mossad together. Can you just explain that? Is that is that common that two agencies would share agents?

1:03:03 Kevin Shipp: Absolutely. The CIA and Mossad are very close because they have mutual goals.

1:03:09 Oh yes, they’re, they’re very close and they work together on on many operations. Of course, I can’t go into detail there, but they work together on many operations. If they’re very close, that that is. That’s nothing out of the ordinary. And so Epstein was clearly an asset from them.

1:03:25 Brian Rose: And what was it a suicide for Epstein? And where’s the list? And will it become public?

1:03:30 Kevin Shipp: Yeah, I think anybody with common sense knows that wasn’t a suicide, it was a murder. I mean, the coincidences that they line up and they think people are stupid, but sadly, they also know if people hear the lie enough times, they’ll start to believe it. And that’s why they did they do that. No, you know, the cameras didn’t function. The security guards were asleep.

1:03:51 But one of the biggest indicators I was upset about personally, William Barr, who by the way, has had connections and worked for the CI going back several years, something that nobody knew about. Well, turns out he’s been connected to CI for a long time, even after he graduated from from college. So William Barr that one of the most important assets in U.S. history. William Barr never once contacted the prison to see how he was doing or how his safety was going, just to make sure he was being taken care of. Not once the the head of the prison. Same thing.

1:04:29 Should have been checking on Epstein daily. He didn’t. The occasional call here and there. Basically just left it alone until Epstein was murdered. Now what does Barr do with this prison official? Who who let this happen?

1:04:44 Was it? Was he disciplined or chastised for negligence or incompetence or what have you? No, William Barr promoted him to a regional director of another entire prison system. So he was rewarded for what he did.

1:04:58 Brian Rose: You had all that up together.

1:05:00 Kevin Shipp: You know, I, I look at everything from the perspective of a criminal investigator and all you do is you look at the facts and you piece them together and see as best of pictures you can get. And it was a hit job on Epstein. There is a list, no question about it. If they’ll ever well, they, they are trying not to get let the the list come out. It’s under seal.

1:05:27 And that’s something they use, you know, with impunity. So it it, it’s, it’s going to be an effort to get that list out. Yes, there’s a list and there’s Epstein blackmail tapes. You remember that mysterious explosion on Epstein island? I don’t know if you caught that. Blew a big end of the island off, and that was a storage area for Jeffrey Epstein and probably were all his videotapes and things were anyway.

1:05:54 So yes, there’s a list. Will we ever see it? They’re going to do everything they can because that list includes very famous people, like the former Prime Minister of Israel, for example, who was photographed going into Epstein’s apartment with his face lower, part of his face covered. There’s some big names potentially on that list. And so those big names are and they have the power are, I think, pushing to keep that list sealed.

1:07:12 Brian Rose: Kevin, how far should Trump go when it comes to exposing or prosecuting all of this stuff?

1:07:28 Yeah, I had Judge Joe Brown on the show a couple days ago and I said, should Trump pardon Hunter Biden? And he said absolutely not. He said he needs to go ahead and prosecute. He said at least he needs to to start the process. He said, you know, he could be could pardon him at the end, but he said this, this has to be done. I asked the same thing about Joe Biden and the same thing about all these questions and even the fact that the Justice Department was used as a weapon against Trump. How do you feel about that?

1:07:58 Do you think that that should be done? Do you think indictments should be made across the board? Everything exposed everyone prosecute to the full extent of the law or not.

1:08:09 Kevin Shipp: Absolutely no pardons. They do need to indict every single one of them and take it through through a court of law and hold them accountable for these felonies that they committed, gross felonies that they committed. And I would include John Brennan in that with Russia collusion hoax and some of the people, James Comedy that were involved in that I would include them on in that they need to indict, for example, James Comedy and others. They violated US Code Title 18 several times, which is a felony.

1:08:40 And I did a presentation just when Russiagate happened. It’s out there on YouTube and I went into every felony that these people had committed, committed and the charges in violation of Title 18. So they absolutely should be indicted and they should go through a court of law. Absolutely. Hunter Biden included, Joe Biden included. Absolutely.

1:09:01 Brian Rose: Now, I guess the people that would disagree with you say it’s a public airing of the laundry and it makes the United States look bad to the world. Is that the argument against it?

1:09:12 Kevin Shipp: Well, the truth never makes America look bad, period. It can be ugly. But the one thing about this country’s founders was the truth was important and transparency was important. If, you know, if we’re worried about it, it could make the United States look bad.

1:09:28 So we’re going to alter the justice because of that. Absolutely not. You know, when it comes to justice and people that have violated the law, they need to be indicted without any political or. Opinionated influence on their decision.

1:09:44 Brian Rose: Do you think Trump will do that?

1:09:47 Kevin Shipp: I do.

1:09:47 Brian Rose: Really. Yes. OK. Well you would know more than most. Next question 911, anything to add there or anything we should know?

1:10:00 Kevin Shipp: Yes, I looked at 911 pretty thoroughly again as a criminal investigator. And when a criminal investigator, as I mentioned, looked at some, they just looked at the facts. That’s it. The 9/11 Commission report was a bunch of baloney, and it turns out that Phillip Zillikow, who ran the 9/11 Commission, had several direct connections to the CIA and U.S. intelligence, which they never told anybody about.

1:10:28 Talk about a conflict of interest in Zillikow controlled the entire investigation and would not let anybody on the Commission or their staffers submit anything unless it went through him and they, the Commission members weren’t weren’t given a staff to do their own investigations. He wanted to do his own investigation. He had actually Silicon had written the outline for the 9/11 Commission before they even started the Commission. So there is just so much there. And then you have especially, at least for me, a criminal investigation was never done immediately. They labeled it as terrorism immediately, no investigation. The morning after the event, they shipped out all of the steel and send it to China.

1:11:14 That steel was evidence. So they destroyed the evidence. The melted steel, which was clearly at a super high temperature. They voted all that out of there. And one of the most ridiculous things, there’s so many. I was probably almost 100.

1:11:29 One of the most ridiculous things, but this is what they do. They said, well, we can prove that one of the terrorists was on the plane that hit the World Trade Center. We found his passport laying on the street a couple blocks over his paper passport. Now that bit that plane hit the building. The plane exploded with jet fuel.

1:11:48 It it melt to the upper floor, the lower floor and everything that was in that plane. But amazingly, a paper passport fell out, threw away from the towers a couple blocks over, and they found it laying on the street, proving that it was terrorism. You know how ridiculous can can you be? There are so many things that were not investigated. There needs to be a brand new investigation on 9/11 and in from the Company of Shadows, the fellow that targeted me after I exposed the vulnerability of them putting our covert agents out there for assassination, possible potential assassination.

1:12:23 The person that went after me was Alvin Buzzy Krongaard, George Tenet’s executive officer. We have a whole chapter on Buzzy Krongaard in there who was working for Alex and Brown’s Sons bank before he went over to the CIA. A corrupt bank that had overseas accounts with elite people whose names were secret. Buzzy Krongaard. It was just a matter of days before the planes hit the building.

1:12:50 Buzzy did put options on the stock that he owned in United Airlines and I think American Airlines also. What a, what a put option is you, you bet that the stock is going to crash. And if it crashes, then you get the stock, you know, a dime on, on the dollar or something. There are several analysts then there wasn’t just Buzzy Krongard, it was others that did trading. McLennan McLennan McClendon I think was the name of the company, did electronic trading immediately dumping the same kind of stock before the the towers hit the building.

1:13:29 The 9/11 Commission did a study of all these investments and they, they, they first they said this is al Qaeda, Al Qaeda funded this. And then they had to come out and say, well, we didn’t find any, any links to al al Qaeda doing these put options or any of the stock market activity. All we found was just just one bank. But we, we didn’t think that need to be followed up. And they listed the bank in the footnote of the 9/11 Commission and it was Buzzy Crongard’s bank, Buzzy Croengard.

1:14:00 The bank was so corrupt that they were going to shut it down. They sold out to Deutsche Bank and Buzzy made $71,000,000. So he wasn’t this St. that was come over to work for the CI for a dollar a year or whatever it was. On and on and on and on we go. There is enough evidence in my view, without question for another investigation to happen because none was ever done. And the 9/11 Commission report exposed as having a massive conflict of interest and start over with with a new body created by Donald Trump to examine 911 and look at the facts because the facts are are pretty shocking.

1:14:40 Brian Rose: Fascinating.

1:14:41 I was there on the day, so yeah, any more truth would always be welcomed. It was quite an ugly day, I must say. I want to, I want to talk a little bit about your story, Kevin. And I’m having a flashback to I think in 1991 when I went to a career fair at MIT. And there you’re walking around and I, you know, I was a junior and of course I was thinking, where do I want to work after MIT?

1:15:05 And of course, at the time there was like the Microsoft’s there and then the the Wall Street companies were there and the chemical engineering companies were there. And I remember this one desk without any banners on it and it just had a guy sitting there with some cards on it. And one of my buddies said, he said that’s the CIA or that’s some covert department or government that’s recruiting. And they, I think they actually had someone there, you know, with a desk, but they didn’t say much, but that was an option.

1:15:37 I’m think I’m remembering this correctly. And I do know that they did some recruiting in Ivy Leagues. That was their main main.

1:15:44 Kevin Shipp: That was their main recruiting target, yeah. Right.

1:15:47 Brian Rose: And that’s interesting. And, and so first of all, maybe you could tell it, tell me a little bit about how they recruit and why they recruit them. I know you kind of got in with a, a reference of someone from school and the last thing you thought that they would ever bring you in. And then of course they did bring you in. And then famously, when you tried to expose the fact that they were allowing, I think an easy way for people to find out about agents identities that they actually didn’t want to go ahead and follow this.

1:16:16 So I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how they recruited, would I have remembered that right. And then what it what it caused? What caused you to leave the agency?

1:16:26 Kevin Shipp: Well, you got that right. You know, they’re so full of themselves.

1:16:30 They put a guy with business cards sitting behind a desk like like they’re, you know, that’s so important. But so I’m sure that’s what that was. And Ivy League’s are their prime target. They, they will recruit, especially people out of Ivy League’s. It’s it’s been their recruitment procedure since the, the beginning of the CIA and has continued after that. Bill Barr was recruited, but I think it was Yale while he was at at Yale.

1:16:59 And you could go on and on and on and on. So that’s exactly, that’s the prime recruiting ground. It depends on what you’re applying for. Now in my case, I turned my 171 and as you mentioned, I had a checkered and shaded past in college so I never thought I would get hired. But anyway, I turned my SR171 in and applied for the new program by the CI called the Security Protective Service. And those are top secret cleared federal police officers that graduated from the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and they were brought into the CIA to protect CIA personnel and facilities so they could go into places no one else could go if there was some kind of emergency. And that’s not just in the United States, but overseas. So that’s how I came in.

1:17:41 I had no idea what was in there. You don’t, unless your case officer, you already know what you’re going to do. I later on become was doing the duties of the case officer. But this is how I started out. And then eventually, when I was on Bill Casey’s detail as an agent, I went through the battery of testing. You had to get a three-point O or better on the equivalent of the Graduate Record records exam and do all this psychological testing with questions like, do you like tall women? I mean, how do you answer that one? Yeah, I like them.

1:18:10 Tall, short, medium. Yeah. But that was one of the questions. One of the big ones that stood out was Could you make a friend out of? Someone and then turn around and betray them and you know exactly what they’re going for.

1:18:22 Anyway, so it was as I was promoted to a full CI security officer and that’s kind of like the NCIS without arrest powers. Basically you have you have full powers of an investigator inside the CIA. And that’s how I wound up on the counter espionage group searching for moles, a mole, a definite mole inside, inside the agency. And then later on went over to the Counterterrorism Center and was sent out collecting human intelligence against terrorist targets that way. So I, I came in not knowing what was in there. And then later on left the the security protective Service and, and eventually went over to the director of operations out in the field for the Counterterrorism Center. So unless you apply as a case officer, you don’t know what’s in there.

1:19:10 You know, regardless of where they recruit you from, if you’re a case officer, then of course you know what generally what you’re going to be doing, but you don’t know the whole, the full picture. They’re going to turn you into something you may not want to be. But, and, and I, I went native for five years when I was doing a human collection and, and became like them. And you, you lie, you cheat, you steal, you drink, you make friends with other governments and then you steal their stuff.

1:19:39 And, and sadly, a lot of the James Bond image is just it’s a it I love spy movies, but it’s just a. Creation, you know.

1:19:46 Brian Rose: Somebody is that like, what is that like Kevin, like I guess in the. Beginning, especially if you’re a younger man, it’s maybe an incredible challenge, or it might seem like fun. And if you convince yourself you’re doing it for your country. That probably last for a little while, and maybe I’m just guessing how the typical recruit goes through that. But then it sounds like by your tone, after a few years of that, it starts to grind at you, maybe deep down inside your soul to where you’re like, this isn’t right, this doesn’t feel right. And I can also see that it’s not being done for the right reasons.

1:20:23 This really isn’t about my country. This is about a small group of people keeping their power. Is that summarizing that right, or are there other bits of it?

1:20:32 Kevin Shipp: No, no, you’re exactly right. You know when you.

1:20:35 Start off especially in covert operations and, and you’re over essentially spying in in another country and sometimes they’re illegally. It’s an adrenaline high, you know, and you get addicted to that. A lot of, a lot of people get it, get addicted to that high until later on when they realize I, yeah, I have no life outside of this. I had one case officer in a certain area that had a high level of terrorism. And we were sitting in this little cafe and he was smoking a cigarette. And he goes, I can’t do this anymore, You know, I just can’t, I can’t do, I don’t want this life anymore. And I’ll go back to headquarters and I can’t say a thing about anything I’ve done, put it on any resume. There’s a big chunk of my life missing. And they’re, they’re not going to, you know, give me a, a pension or a golden parachute or anything. Just go out on the street.

1:21:26 So you, you start seeing that, wait a minute, this is, this is crazy for a lot of reasons. And then you see some operations where it’s like, Oh my gosh, I don’t believe, I mean, they allow this number of people to, to get killed. Now in my case, to answer your question, I was put in charge of an investigation of CIA computer systems connected to the Department of State and, and some of our allied governments. And I was doing a, a thorough investigation of the connection going into US embassies. And the officer before me said, look, there’s, I don’t know, there’s something doesn’t, something doesn’t work here. You may want to check it out.

1:22:08 And then she rotated out two days later, which is probably the best thing she ever did. So I took it and I dug and I dug and I dug. And I found that it looked like you could go into the visa section, unclassified, open visa section, to one of the computers for people applying for visas and go in and identify our CIA cover personnel, case officers, chief of stations, and by extension, their assets. The more I look, the worse it got. So I put together and let me know if I’m going too long here, but I put together an investigative report and this is where it gets weird. If you want to call it weird, it was, it was intentional, but put together a detailed report and I contacted the office involved providing cover for our officers and I said, listen, I, I think I may have found something here that may be serious. I have a report from my investigation I’d like to send you, let you take a look at it and see if, you know, maybe, maybe we have something here.

1:23:03 So I hung up the phone. I put the the report in internal Courier, CIA mail, Gave him about a week to look at it. Called him in a week and said, hey, did you get the report? What do you think? And the response was, what report? And I said, the one I sent you through Courier. Well, we never got a report.

1:23:22 Said, OK, I’ll tell you what, I’ll send it to you again. Sent it through internal Courier again, gave him a week, called him back. OK, Did you get the report? Same thing. What report?

1:23:32 I was like, I sent it to you twice. Tell you what I’m going to do. I’m going to bring it over there personally and hand it to you. So I went over to see I headquarters up to that division, walked in to the executive secretary, and I said, here is my report. Please show this to the division chief.

1:23:47 She bristled like, OK. And I walked out thinking, all right, I got through whatever wall that was and go back to to my office in and outer building. I get this menacing phone call from the chief of that division. He goes, Kevin Shipp. I said, yes, this is so and so chief of this division.

1:24:08 I said, yes, Sir. You guys, I am ordering you to drop that investigation now. I said, Sir, I mean, lives may be at stake here. You guys drop it now or it’s your career. Click.

1:24:20 So I was like, what on earth? If you think they’d want to fix this, you know, so thank God my supervisor who was an honest man and was a senior grade officer was, was at a meeting of senior officers and had and took my report and gave it to the Department of State senior Inspector General officers and they took it back to state. I didn’t know this was happening, but they took it back to state and then gave me a call. They looked at it and I get this call from Department of State IG and and I’ll call him Jim.

1:24:52 He was a decorated office. He had the CIA intelligence medal for valor. He was a decent guy and he actually, I worked for him in times past here. He’s a good, good man. Anyway, he goes, Kevin, this is Jim. We looked at your report.

1:25:06 Would you mind coming over and briefing us on this in detail? I said yes, Sir, I’ll be there. I went over to Maine State to IG office, sat down with him and went through the report. What it what it meant, what it could, what could happen through these connections And they they were like, all right, We think you may be honest something here. We’ll get back to you. So I go back to my office.

1:25:28 I got a phone call on the secure line. It’s Jimmy goes Kev. We think there’s something serious here. We’re going to do a global investigation and go into embassies and see if you can do this. And he said do not tell the CIA what you’re doing. Do not tell the CIA what we’re doing. Keep your head low and you’ll hear from us in about 3 months when we get back.

1:25:48 So I said, OK, over to you, went back about my duties. Three months later, sure enough, I get a call. It’s Jim. He goes, Kevin, you need to come over to Maine State. I said yes, Sir.

1:25:59 He goes. We found that it’s not just as bad as you thought, it’s worse. We have a meeting at Maine State this Friday. Can you be there? I said, yes, Sir, I’ll be there. So Friday comes around.

1:26:10 I go to Maine State. I go to the upper floors. I walk in. They buzzed me into the IG office and there’s a gym and the two senior IG officers and they said, hey, Kev, come on in. I walked into this big conference room with a long walnut conference room table.

1:26:24 They sat me at 1 middle chair gym on the other, excuse me, the two IG guys at the end and I sat down and they said just a few minutes, Kevin, the CIA will be joining us. I was like, oh man, I didn’t know they knew about this. Well, they hadn’t yet. Excuse me? Door buzzes. They let him in.

1:26:44 In walks the GS 15 senior officer in charge of that division that had destroyed my memos and they had removed them from the CIA server. All of my records and all of my memos, I kept hard copies because that’s what you do in that place. And the IG guys says to the CIA official, please go have a seat at the end of the table. He sits down. And what’s this all about?

1:27:06 The IG official stands up and says consider. This an official rebuke by the Department of State IG to you, the CIA, for putting the lives of your agents at risk for over 10 years and then covering it up. Of course, the blood drains from his face and he looks like he’s shocked. And then they said, we want you to know that State IG is going to publish this report to the entire intelligence community, and they’re going to see what you’ve done. He said stuttered and said, OK.

1:27:38 And then they said, you can go now. So he got up and he walked out. We had some small talk. They thanked me for for my work. And I remember going back to CIA headquarters, walking down the main hallway, figuratively speaking, felt like I had a laser dot on my back.

1:27:53 I knew they were coming after me. I did an investigation in secret behind their back that exposed them to the entire intelligence community. You think they’re just going to leave that one alone? Of course not. They reassigned me to a secret base inside the United States where the CI had buried a lot of its skeletons they didn’t want the Congress or anybody else to know about. They assigned me to that base and they put me in in a house and my family, by the way, that was badly contaminated with toxins and they knew it was contaminated. Family before got very ill and they had to evacuate them out there.

1:28:26 So they knew that that house had a bunch of toxins in it. We moved in there. My wife started bruising all over her body. Her gums were bleeding. She lost her short term memory, got dementia, couldn’t get out of bed. I secretly flew, flew my son and I’m, and I’ll end with this, flew my son to a well known immunologist who took me aside from Joey.

1:28:46 My son has said Mr. Shipp, his immune system is virtually destroyed. It’s like he’s been exposed to a burst of radiation or something. Took him to a second immunologist and they confirmed the same thing. So I did some secret testing, collected some samples.

1:29:01 A mustard gas percolated up, mustard gas shell percolated up in our yard. Joey found it and I, I started looking inside the walls and there was black mold all through the house and down in the crawl space. It was just disgusting and there were open holes from the crawl space. Anyway, I tried to get the CIA to test it, they refused. I tried to get the CIA to test my family, they refused, ordered me to tell no one, ordered me not to communicate it back with headquarters and and on and on it went from there. So just to wrap it up, I knew what they were doing and I knew why they did it.

1:29:36 So in the guise of filing a renter’s claim on the House because we had a rent rental property, even though it was a Government House I applied for. Usually the CIA will control attorneys. The CIA will make you use their attorney. Once again, CIA has the the deck stacked against you in their favor. Well, I knew that and I had the authority to submit people for clearances. So in the guise of doing the the rental policy claim, I submitted Clint, my courageous attorney for ACIA clearance and thinking that he was just going to help me with the the renter’s policy. Once he got the clearance, 24 hours later, we turned around and we sued him for a personal injury suit. And then the fun began.

1:30:26 Our house is broken into. I found mycotoxins on the ceiling, which is a neurotoxin. They broke in and painted some chemical over the mycotoxin that I had found and it was invisible unless you hit it with a black light. Anyway, on and on and the fight began until I finally had had enough and I came out to fight them externally. I waited for a while. They the judge ordered them to a mediate settlement because I had so much evidence against him that I finally produced that I that I had done in secret.

1:30:55 The judge ordered the CIA to immediate settlement. They signed a settlement agreement for $400,000 and we left there. Not we, we lost all our personal property in the house. It had to be taken out and destroyed, kids toys, everything. So we lost a lot that the settlement amount was 400,000.

1:31:11 You know that that wasn’t even close to what they should have done. Anyway, we all walked out thinking, OK, this chapter is over. I get a call about a week later from Clint. He goes, you’re not going to believe this. I said what? He said.

1:31:23 I’ve never seen this in my entire legal career. What’s that? The CI has notified me in a memo that they are not going to abide by the settlement agreement, I said. But they signed it, He goes. He sent me the memo from Jane Jim Mctaggart of the Department of Justice who the CI had brought in as part of their plan. Get this memo from Glenn and I have all these memos, by the way, and I’m posting them on YouTube. The memo said unless the Shipp family agrees to a lower settlement, and it was pittance compared to what we did, unless they agree to a lower settlement, we will invoke the evidentiary privilege or the state secrets privilege and seal their case and seal their evidence. I told Clint, you call them back and tell them I, I don’t get blackmailed.

1:32:13 They signed an agreement. They need to abide by it. Well, oh, I guess about another week went by. I got a call from Clint. The CIA had used the state’s secret privilege to block all the evidence in our case, gave us a statement that said we couldn’t talk about the evidence with, with anyone, including our attorneys or we we were facing prison because of the state’s secret privilege.

1:32:41 Brian Rose: And when did you find they leave?

1:32:43 Kevin Shipp: I left in 2000. And two. This all transpired from 2000. And two to about two. 1004, the case went to appeal and, and what the judges do if it’s a state secret privilege case, they just stamp it in favor of the CI and get rid of it. That’s that’s part of the CIS controlled judiciary, which I talked about in other videos.

1:33:04 So the ultimate control, I had hard evidence against them of multiple felonies, which I have now put out there. As a matter of fact, I wrote Twilight, the shadow government, without the CIS approval on purpose because from the Company of Shadows, my previous book, I had evidence in there of the break insurance, the chemical on the ceiling, my family’s illnesses, doctor’s diagnosis, and the CIA redacted or blacked out. All of that in my book, none of it was classified. And that’s a violation of an executive order for them to do that redact things that are criminal activity or negligence, but they did it anyway.

1:33:39 And they use the state secrets privilege to cover up the felony they just committed. So I knew they were going to do this to Twilight of the Shadow government. So I met my great friend and courageous co-author Ken Heck and Lively. We started writing the book. We had that thing done. We went hours a day going back and forth. We had that thing done in four months. I had given it to the CIA.

1:34:01 They sat on it for three months, of course, and I finally they asked me, you, you want to make the decision to go ahead and publish this. I said absolutely. I sent the full manuscript to Skyhorse Publishing and Skyhorse Publishing published the whole thing. And then of course, I get my first threat from the CIA. We consider that you violated your non disclosure agreement.

1:34:22 I knew that. I know the whole process. I was them. I knew what they would try to do. They’re going to try to take my royalties from the book, all of them.

1:34:28 That that’s one thing that that historically they do. So I may not make a dime off this. My wife, bless her heart, has started a GoFundMe campaign. We’ll see how that goes, but they may take everything that I make off this book it it’s already sold out of Amazon. I was a best seller on Amazon sold out.

1:34:46 They’re restocking it. It was sold out of all the major bookstores. So it’s doing really well and I’m cheering Skyhorse and Ken Hecken Lively on. I hope they make a bundle off of it, but that’s not why I wrote the book. I wrote the book to get this truth out there to the American people.

1:35:01 They take my royalties fine. I, I made all these decisions ahead of time. I don’t care what they try to do to me. It’s too late. The kitties out of the bag and the entire world knows what they did. And so I’m at peace, you know, and, and, and, and happy about that.

1:35:20 Brian Rose: Well, congratulations on the book. It’s called Twilight of the Shadow. Government how transparency will kill the deep state. I guess they can still maybe try to get that on Amazon. How else can they follow you or get the book and also get in touch with you on X video platforms, etcetera?

1:35:36 What’s the best way, Kevin?

1:35:38 Kevin Shipp: Sure, yes, I post things about the CIA. On Twitter, routinely it’s X at Kevin under score Shipp SHIPP, and I’m putting stuff out there about the CI. Every time I catch them doing something, I put that out there. I have a Patreon account, it’s patreon.com/kevin Dash Shipp. We’ve been getting a lot of members on that lately. And I share.

1:36:01 Things on Patreon I don’t share on in any other any other context planes buzzing our house and things a lot, but that’s all on Patreon. Then we have GoFundMe. They can do GoFundMe comic heaven ship. I think it’s how she set it up. So and I will be putting out more Youtubes. I have one on CIA felonies I’m working on that’s going to come out and show all these documents and the felonies they they committed that should be out.

1:36:26 I was thinking two weeks on my YouTube channel channel. It’s hard to find my YouTube tube channel. No surprise there. My handle is Kevin Shipp one and people try to get in there and they they can’t, they can’t get access to my YouTube. So go out there and, and I’ve got a bunch of Youtubes out there.

1:36:45 Google my name. I’ll come up, my YouTube will come up and then see if they can get my YouTube channel web address there. And then they can get it because I got I have a lot of revelations on the CI in there and I’m about to publish all their felonies.

1:37:01 Brian Rose: Do you ever worry about your safety, Kevin?

1:37:04 Kevin Shipp: Yeah, you know, yeah. They, I mean, they’ve tried to kind of erase me once the the slow way.

1:37:10 I certainly do. Absolutely. But you know, I have no problem with that. You know, I’m a person of faith. I I believe I know where I’m going make my day. That doesn’t bother me at all.

1:37:23 And and also the fact that the truth is already out there. My mission is done. So yeah, I do concerned about about my life, but but not to the point of worry in if they do that, fine, it’s too late.

1:37:41 Brian Rose: I love that. Kevin, thank you so much for the time.

1:37:45 Thank you for writing the book. You speak very credibly and very honestly about these issues, and I think that’s really powerful. I also feel great that you’re talking to Bobby on a regular basis and that Bobby’s still thinking about all of his broad interests, not just making America healthy again, which is, again, extremely important, and everything he’s going to do inside, you know, the three letter agencies for health. But I’m glad that he’s still thinking about the CIA and, of course, big Tech and media. I know he repeatedly has said something I think is his uncle said and his father said that, you know, there is no democracy without a Free Press.

1:38:25 And it’s, it’s such an important point, you know, and you know, I, I felt it in 2020 and I stumbled into this and I had, you know, never studied journalism. I just, you know, started putting these conversations out on YouTube and we had done it for 9 years, never had a single incident. And then boom, there we go on April 6th, 2020, we started getting censored. And my immediate reaction was anger, and I fought back. And because it’s just not right and good for you.

1:38:58 I learned a lot about you. Know. Wow, what was actually happening? And there was so much confusion and so much fear. And yeah, I was fortunate to meet so many amazing people and have so many conversations. And now I’ve learned so much.

1:39:11 And I think a lot of people had now learned so much about what’s really going on. And I think that’s the only positive that came out of the past four years is I feel like the public for the first time and ever or hundreds of years has now realized that the institutions that that we looked up to for for so long, Kevin, you know, our doctors and our, our, our governments and our, you know, our police and our CIA, all these people that we thought would protect us. And we’re doing the right things that are all Co opted in some way, shape or form or could be. And we need that transparency, which is what you’re really talking about in the book.

1:39:49 And I really hope this is a watershed moment for America and we can have this rebirth and we’ll look back on it 100 years from now. Like we would look back, you know, in in the 40s, you know, when when everyone was being accused of a communist and look at how ridiculous that was. But when you were in it at the time, you were all probably thinking, how is this happening? And I hope we look back 100 years from now and at this time thinking, wow, what what craze we were in to think that way. Yeah, me too.

1:40:18 I hope we can eradicate it, Kevin. So. Thank you so much for. What you’re doing and and putting it out there and I just continue to hope and pray that this administration get get in there and get this work done. We don’t have that much time, but what a dream team. Of course, there will be pushed back, but I really believe that we can make it happen.

1:40:36 And we’re doing all our small part here for putting these messages out. So thank you, Kevin. Appreciate that. Let’s everybody get a copy of this book and follow this man, go to those accounts and and do all that stuff and just thank you, Kevin. Let’s definitely have another conversation maybe next time in London.

1:40:51 Kevin Shipp: Thank you, Brian, I’m proud of what you’re doing. I really am that.

1:40:54 That’s our hope. But I’ll be glad to come on again.

1:40:57 Brian Rose: All right, fantastic. Thank you so much, Kevin. Appreciate you.

1:41:00 Thanks to. Everybody on London Real. We’ll see you next time. Take care. Bye.