James Duigan - Clean & Lean

Full transcript: James Duigan on London Real

0:00 Hi guys, it’s Nick and Brian from London Real. This week we have James Duigan on the show. He’s a health and well-being expert and author of the best-selling book, The Clean and Lean Diet. Yeah, we knew he was a hotshot personal trainer, but it turns out he’s enlightened about many other aspects of life as well. Check it out.

0:15 This is London Real. My name is Brian Rose. My partner in crime is Mr. Nick Gabriel, and joining us today is health and well-being expert James Duigan. Welcome.

0:40 Thank you very much. You are the author of The Clean and Lean Diet, which I’ve been told is a highly successful book. Yeah, it is. So far, so good. It’s hard to sell a good book these days. Why is yours so successful?

0:51 I guess because it’s somehow resonating with people. It’s simple and it’s easy and accessible, and the philosophy isn’t about preaching. It’s about, I guess, teaching people that they deserve to feel good, and from that foundation, they can make some really profound changes. Wow. I was watching an interview with you, and you said something like, you have to feel good before you can look good.

1:17 Yeah. That’s something I never hear nutritionists talk about. Yeah. Well, I mean, a lot of the industry is based on shame and guilt, so they want you to feel bad, basically, and then buy some stuff. And I don’t like what’s being said, so I want to change the conversation and have people acting from, you know, a firm belief that they deserve to feel good, and that they’re worthwhile, and they’re worth something.

1:39 Because it’s amazing how many people don’t feel that they’re worth that, or that they do believe that they don’t deserve to feel good, and that sucks. So, changing that and making that transformation in the mind is when you can really make transformations in the body. That’s interesting. I mean, we’ve all been training under the bodybuilding paradigm for so long, which at the peak of that paradigm is aesthetics, and health is so, so close to the bottom.

2:05 Whereas, you’re flipping on its head and saying, first, get healthy, and then the aesthetics will follow. Yeah, I mean, it tends to happen far more quickly. When you focus on health, you start to look better as a byproduct. But, you know, we’re only, you know, a lot of us live like we’re never going to die. One thing’s for certain, one day we will.

2:26 So, for me, you might as well be happy while you’re here, and happiness doesn’t mean feeling disgusting and gross and unhealthy and tired and grumpy and whatever it is. I mean, a lot of people don’t know they’re sick because they’ve never been healthy. They’ve literally been raised on a bad diet. And when you can give someone a glimpse of health, of what it feels like to jump out of bed and actually feel good and powerful and clear, there’s no turning back.

2:54 So, you think that’s our natural state? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, of course. You can’t hunt tigers when you’re depressed. So, you got to, you know, you got to, that’s our natural state is health and happiness.

3:04 And, you know, the other thing is that drives this philosophy is it’s never about your body fat percentage, because I figure that, you know, when you look back on your life, you don’t want on your gravestone body fat percentage never went above 11%. I do. That’s what you mean when you’re close to your show, bros. But you would prefer to look back and say, man, I had some fun and I loved my family and I did some good stuff for my friends and I’m proud of how I live my life.

3:31 And, you know, as a sort of almost as a kind of a byproduct of living a life like that of being kind to yourself and kind to the planet, your body’s going to look amazing. Do you find you have to tone down some of your clients sometimes? And sometimes I know you, you train some very famous people like Elma Pearson and Hugh Grant. And do you find with some women at the top of their game, you have to kind of ease them back a little bit so they don’t obsess about their diet?

3:53 I mean, we’re in a really fortunate position that, you know, people are prepared to listen to us because we have some credibility and a good reputation. So we don’t have to convince people. And we’ve also been successful for long enough to just know what works for people really quickly. So yes, sometimes you do have to pull it back. Sometimes, you know, people are stressing themselves further with their exercise and actually running themselves fat because their cortisol levels are so high.

4:24 So you can wind that down, introduce yoga, meditation, whatever it might be. And they’ll see, you know, a very real difference in their body very quickly, but also feel much better. That’s interesting. There’s apparently in Ayurvedic medicine, if you sweat to the point where perspiration runs off the bridge of your nose, you are burning your life energy. And that makes me think whenever you see people doing like the latest crazy CrossFit, you know, I mean, they look they look haggard at the end of CrossFit workout.

4:58 They don’t look healthy, they don’t look revived. They look like they’re about to collapse. So I really like the fact that you look at the more holistic elements like yoga and nutrition. That’s very cool, James. Yeah, thank you.

5:09 There’s got to be a balance and there’s got to be a payoff sometime. Like I spent, you know, a lot of years training myself into the ground, constantly sore, constantly aching. And you figure, hang on, when’s this actually going to feel good? Because I was always tired and just didn’t work. And it’s not whether it’s right or wrong.

5:28 It just definitely didn’t work for me. And it doesn’t work for a lot of people. I think you’ve got to find a balance and again, go to where you’re happy. See, I love turning like kettlebells and stuff until I just I just physically want to quit my brain. It hurts so much and I’m sweating so hard.

5:44 Like I like going to that extreme. Do you think maybe it’s because you’re a state of masochist? Maybe, you know, but without doing that a couple of times a week or we were talking with James earlier, maybe bullying jujitsu where I know you always taught me to breathe and everything. I think I was tensing up a lot of times, but I like getting to that state where I barely can keep going sometimes. There’s a difference doing that because you enjoy it and then or doing it because you’re driven to do it because you don’t feel like you’re good enough if you don’t kind of thing because I love it.

6:15 I search it out. I’ve been figuring that out in my head just recently. I absolutely love pushing myself because I think it’s a real shame to not see what your body can do. We’ve got this thing. So let’s see what it can do.

6:27 It’s like driving a Ferrari at 10 miles an hour. There’s no point. So absolutely test yourself. And, you know, for me, martial arts is one of the best, most amazing ways of doing that. But at the same time, you know, we hear for a while people say life short and it is, but it’s also really long.

6:45 And, you know, you don’t want to be beaten up the whole time. And, you know, I’m having a baby soon. So I want to be able to play with her and grandchildren and playing tennis and all that kind of stuff. So I’ve always got, you know, that view in mind as well. You say a lot of people are are like living themselves to death or really what do you mean by that?

7:09 You know, I mean, it’s again about finding balance. Sometimes people are driven to be in a basement gym under a fluorescent light running on the treadmill at 5 30 in the morning. I mean, to me, there’s just no joy in that. Maybe there is, but I’m just not getting it. OK.

7:29 You know, so you try to make the workouts enjoyable or things that people look forward to. Absolutely. You know, the way that our facilities designed is to engage people’s curiosity. You know, there’s monkey bars in there and the straps, the hang off. And there’s punching bags to hit and stuff that you don’t know what it does.

7:46 It’s almost like a Montessori school for adults, you know, because you should be in there playing exercise. Shouldn’t be another kind of regimented, boring thing to do. It should be fun. And that will reflect in your body as well. A lot of the exercise systems that we’ve been exposed to over the last few decades are very military in style.

8:12 And also, I read something somewhere. I don’t know if it’s true, but apparently all the movements that you do in bodybuilding, like a bicep crawl or a bench press, they were all originally intended to help make human beings better workers in factories for very simplistic tasks, like pushing levers or lifting things up. And that is completely opposed to your notion of seeing exercises play, you know, which I find interesting. Yeah, I mean, we want to create, you know, strong athletic bodies and take us back to the fact that we’re animals.

8:49 And so we should be moving like that and moving your body in different ways and, you know, really kind of using this beautiful and unbelievable machine and appreciating it, treating it right. And, you know, again, so much of so many of our kind of issues that we have can really be solved by kind of focusing in words and on your body and exercise and all that kind of stuff. I mean, a lot of the worries that I have just disappear when I exercise and eat right.

9:22 You must have women coming up to you all the time and saying, James, how do I do X, Y and Z? Do you get tired of people asking you what they should eat or train and what do you tell them? I mean, it’s different for everybody. We’re all as sort of different genetically and biochemically on the inside as we are on the outside. So what may work for you won’t work for you will work for me, you know, so it’s different for everybody.

9:46 I never get tired of it because for me, I have the best job in the world. I absolutely love it. I’m so grateful, honestly grateful to be able to help people in what I do because it could be very different. I mean, it’s a huge privilege and an incredible honor and a major responsibility as well. So that’s how I feel about that.

10:08 And then what do I say to them? I mean, generally, you know, your body is your own best nutritionist and personal trainer. Tune into it. Often we don’t or, you know, your body’s numb because you’ve been abusing it with sugar and chemicals and so on and so forth. So, you know, if you can learn to tune into your own body and listen to what it’s telling you because it’s always talking to you, then you know exactly what to do.

10:30 Do you listen to your body burn? Yeah, I can definitely I definitely hear when it’s not being treated well. It’s like, what the hell are you doing? But sometimes you’ve sometimes people just don’t know what to do differently or you’ve learned these diets over the years because mom made it or because in university you ate X, Y and Z and you keep doing this without knowing anybody. Yeah, I mean, a lot of people do a lot of damage to themselves thinking they’re doing the right thing.

10:55 You know, there’s this whole low fat fallacy of, you know, there’s a lot of fat phobic people out there that are having low fat yogurts and low fat products. Okay, there’s no fat in there, but they’re pumped full of sugar or pumped full of chemicals or salt or all three in some cases that are just destroying people’s health, you know. And I mean, I was having a conversation this morning with a very intelligent guy who, you know, we were talking about food companies and how they put sugar in it.

11:25 And I mean, they even invented a more addictive form of sugar to put in their food. You took my high fructose corn syrup. Absolutely. You know, and you look at, you know, the Coca Cola and hopefully Coke don’t assassinate me. But I mean, you know, they’re still saying, well, it’s not as simple as that.

11:44 We’re not so sure of sugar. But you just look at a simple line graph of, you know, increased sugar consumption and increased obesity. I mean, it correlates almost exactly. So, you know, how does that play itself out? I mean, what happens to America?

11:59 Are you look at the obesity in the UK or even in Brazil, there’s obesity. I mean, how can it keep ramping up? But one is how can that ever stop? Is that your heart rate monitor, James? I don’t know what that is.

12:11 Maybe I’m reversing. I’m just messing with you. Okay. So, how do we stop it? Or where does it play out?

12:19 I mean, at some point, people are going to start dying. Yeah. Well, they already are. How it plays out is that you get fat, you get sick and you die. Okay.

12:27 And there’s a far more politically correct way of saying that. But that’s how it plays out. You die. And it happens every day and it’s an epidemic. And I think three out of four deaths that happen in the Western world are from nutritional causes, obesity, heart disease, and so on and so forth.

12:45 So, it’s scary. You know, for what it’s worth, I was at a conference and they were talking about, and it was an environmental conference and they were saying, you know, it’s arrogant of us to say that Brazil and India and these emerging economies shouldn’t have supermarkets and convenience foods and it’s their turn now to prosper. And I kind of thought it was obscene to think that we think convenience food is prosperity because what we can say is that it doesn’t work.

13:19 It sucks. It makes us fat. It makes us sick. It makes us depressed. All this convenience hasn’t done us any favors at all.

13:27 You know, it’s split communities up. It’s, you know, isolated people. And so, we’ve got more time to what? You know what I mean? So, I think that we got it wrong.

13:39 And it’s not my place to say it because who am I? You know, I work in a gym. But you can definitely see, you know, what’s working and what doesn’t work. And it does seem that convenience foods and all this kind of extra time we’ve got to spend on Facebook hasn’t really done us any favors. So, for me, I would say, stop.

14:00 Don’t do it. You know, don’t destroy your environment. Don’t destroy where you live and reconnect with your families. And, you know, that’s real prosperity. You know, I just gave Brian a copy of a movie called The New World.

14:13 It’s a Terrence Malek film. And have you seen it before? No. Anyway, I have to cut a long story short. It’s about an armada that arrives in America and they set up a colony there.

14:26 And one of the English people is taken, he gets separated from his group, and he’s taken to live with these natives for a while. And he spends a few months living with them. And what he says is these people are happy, healthy, they’re kind and faithful. There’s no guile or trickery in them. You know, and he spends a few months with them learning their ways and then he returns to the camp.

14:49 And the director has shown so well the contrast between that tribal culture and the new dominating culture that was coming into the country. And I just thought to myself, if you look at our culture, people are unhappy, people are unhappy and healthy. We’re not thriving. You know, sure, there’s the population, if you look at it from a quantity point of view, there’s loads of us, right? And we have mastered our environment.

15:12 But what is the payoff? Like, walk down the street, how many people do you see that are vibrant with health? It’s a very low percentage, right? I guess it is, yep. There’s no arguing with that.

15:23 And again, it’s not, I mean, one thing that I’ve learned is that I don’t really know anything and it’s always been a mistake whenever I’ve said, I’m right and you’re wrong. But what I can say very sort of confidently is what I’ve known to work for me and the people that I work with and what definitely hasn’t worked for people. Yeah. And all I guess you can do is live your life the way that you live it kind of thing and inspire people, hopefully. And that’s the most effective way, I think.

15:57 But I mean, I’m healthy and I’m happy. How cool is this guy’s attitude right by? It’s good, it’s good. Thank you. Do you put people on like a certain regimen when people come in?

16:05 You said you spend your time in the gym. So I’m just curious what you tell people to do and is it different for men, different for women? I mean, it’s different for everybody. Again, you get some people that are running three hours a day on a treadmill. So what you tell them is very different to a guy that hasn’t exercised in 10 years.

16:22 But, you know, the question that I’ll always ask is, you know, when they come in, this is what I do and I’m not going to change, but here’s some money, make me better. Okay. Okay, then. So… Is that a typical attitude that people come in?

16:38 It’s not all the time, but you do hear it. Okay. But, you know, what I’ll ask is, how’s it working out for you? You know, I’m drinking and I like this and I like that. How’s it working out for you?

16:50 It feels horrible. Okay, so should we talk about some alternatives? Rather than saying, you’ve got to stop that. What you’re doing is wrong. You’re wrong.

16:58 You know, it comes down to if it’s working for you, then fine. Who am I to say don’t do it? But if it’s not, figure out a different way because if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you’ll get the same result. We all know that. What’s an awesome perspective?

17:11 Isn’t it tough to change your whole mental focus or to change your mental bad habits? Or is there a slow way to do it? If someone said to me, James, there’s a slow way of feeling good or there’s a fast way of feeling good, it’s up to you which one do you want to do. I’ll take the fast one, thanks. You know, like, for me, it’s kind of, yes, there’s habits and there’s ingrained things, but I mean, what are you waiting for?

17:41 One day you’re going to die. So just get happy straight away. Do some stuff that works for you. Don’t waste your time. It just must be hard to come to someone and say, okay, you’re drinking four times a week, you’re eating fish and chips, you’re doing all this, stop all that.

17:55 But that must be very unrealistic for someone who’s been doing that for so long. Unless they’re so fed up. Yeah, that’s right. I mean, generally when they come to us, they’ve gotten to the point where they want to change. So, you know, I’m not like going into someone’s lounge room and saying, can you put down that donut?

18:10 I’d like to chat with you, please. You know, they’re ready to make a change. No problem with human beings. I’ve seen this in my own life so many times. You only really make a change once you hit a critical junction and something bad happens.

18:27 You know what I mean? Like someone sees you and goes, Jesus, dude, you’ve put on loads of weight or whatever it is. And I guess you have to just wait for people to hit that. Yeah, or hopefully not. But absolutely, that’s generally how it goes.

18:39 And then, you know, once you become aware of that pattern, then you hope that you start to see it a little earlier each time so that you don’t have to get that kind of horrible wake-up call. And you start to listen and hear those kind of little signs earlier and then actually life’s pretty good. Are there things in your life, James, that you, not necessarily only from a physical point of view, but are there other things in your life that you are not happy with and that are working on to change?

19:06 I mean, stuff’s happened in the last year. You know, my dad got diagnosed with stage 3B lung cancer and you don’t really come back from that and that sucks. And that was terrifying. And I thought I was a pretty strong guy. But then, you know, you get that knocked out of you when you find yourself on the floor crying kind of thing.

19:29 Like, it sucks ass and I didn’t choose that at all. But that’s something that happened. But you keep your inherent sense of self and I stayed healthy and I have a beautiful wife. And so that was something that happened in life that sucked, but it didn’t make me an unhappy person. I was just going through something that sucked.

19:54 I think Brian and I, Brian’s just written an article on ayahuasca, which is amazing, by the way, guys, you have to read it. If you go on our website, LondonReel.tv, you’ll see it there. And in your article, which rarely hit me in a soft spot, Brian, is you said how you built all these walls around you. And the thing is, I did that for a long time as well, but things like that, like your dad getting lung cancer, whatever, that happens inside your walls. Do you know what I mean? No matter how strong the walls are, it’s going to hit you.

20:24 So, I don’t know, do you think maybe it’s just better to just be ready for it at all times and just open and vulnerable to it? I guess like James was saying, I guess there’s no choice. You think you’re strong, you think you’re tough to everything else in your life that hits you in something very core, like you’re one of your creators being sick and potentially dying. It can affect you more than you think it would, I think. Well, the value in it was really separating what was a real problem and what wasn’t a real problem.

20:57 I didn’t have problems before that. I had stuff that I wasted time thinking about. And then I got a real problem. The story has a happy ending. That happened six weeks ago.

21:10 Dad went in for his test and his cancer disappeared, like gone, and it’s miraculous. They don’t really understand how it happened, what happened. But whatever, I’m okay with that. I will take that. But the valuable lesson for me was, yeah, this stuff happens and you get through it and it’s okay and it doesn’t change who you are.

21:40 It’s just something you’re going through. And also the lesson that I learned from Dad was again, life’s too long to hold on to resentment and bitterness. The first thing he wanted to do was forgive everyone. And that’s beautiful. That’s a great thing.

21:59 The best thing that ever happened to my dad was getting cancer. He does yoga twice a week now. He’s given up sugar. He meditates and he’s closer with us than ever before. Cancer sucks, but it was the best thing that happened to us as a family.

22:15 Wow. That’s intense. I was wondering, for someone like you that sees everyone and tells them what to do training-wise, when you find yourself getting lazy or unmotivated to train, do you, I’m just wondering what a guy like you does, do you notice it and you’re like, I better change my routine up? Or how do you deal with something like that? I mean, it’s just happened recently where I was traveling for a long time.

22:37 Well, three months I think we’ve been traveling and I got out of the habit of exercising and didn’t feel good. Doesn’t work for me at all. And so, yeah, you just do something about it. It’s easy for me because I’ve got access to, you know, the experience of what to do and, you know, I’ve got the next step to do right at my fingertips. But, you know, it happens to all of us of getting out of it, but just get back into it.

23:04 I think guys like us, just because we’ve been training for so long now, like if I want to work out, I’ll go to the park and put myself through work. I don’t know. You probably do the same. Whereas for a lot of people, they don’t know how to work out, you know, and it’s a big, it’s intimidating going into a gym where you’re like completely out of your depth. It’s like me walking into the i-cap floor and you know what I mean?

23:24 Yeah, and you look at a place like Virgin, I walk in there and you see people that are starting out and you give them, there are your options. You have a treadmill and you have a elliptical. I mean, there’s nothing fun about those things and there’s not a lot of fun happening in there. There’s a lot of guys lifting weights and stuff and I can enjoy some things, kettlebells and stuff, but I see what James is talking about. You need to go shake it up and do something that’s kind of exciting, I guess.

23:49 There was something else that I wanted to speak to you about. You know, Brian James, I’ve been friends with him for a while and he’s taught me a lot about a lot of life lessons. I’ve learned vicariously through him and one of the things about you, James, I’d like some more insight into it. You seem to be someone, everything you touch turns to gold, you know, and when I look at your business and your products and the people that surround the boat that you’re surrounded by, everything seems to be characterized by a sense of ease and flow.

24:25 And I know it wasn’t always that way. I remember you told me a story about 10 years ago, you were in London, you had no place to sleep or something, you’re almost homeless. Can you tell us a bit more about the process that took you from there to where you are now? Well yeah, I mean, so I got to London 16 years ago and so 16 years ago I was essentially homeless and hungry and, you know, scared, totally confused, didn’t know what to do. How old were you then, James?

24:54 So I was 21 then. And where were you coming from? Australia. Okay. Yeah.

25:00 And I mean, you know, at the time I wouldn’t know what to tell you but looking back, I guess, fundamentally, what I had to do was, for me what worked was helping other people. That’s what’s absolutely worked for me. That’s brought me a lot of joy and a lot of fulfillment and I can’t, inherently I suspect I may be lazy. And so if my motivation for getting up at 5 in the morning to see somebody is to earn some more money, I just couldn’t do it because I’ll figure out and I don’t care.

25:39 I’ll get up later or whatever. Or if writing my book was about getting more royalties, it’s not what drives me. But if I’ve got a bigger motivation, I want to get a message out there to change people’s lives and then eventually to change the conversation that’s going on worldwide. That motivates me. So to cut a short story long and to answer your actual question, what helped me was to give myself a bigger motivation to whatever I was doing at the time.

26:13 To basically widen or broaden your vision? Yeah, that. And also, it just couldn’t be about me because it just didn’t work for me to do it that way. And two other things that are fundamental to anything that I’ve ever achieved are gratitude and humility. Because without that, I don’t know, it’s miserable.

26:41 You get very resentful and bitter when you’re not humble and grateful. And gratitude, there’s a lot of lip service paid to it and I don’t know, it’s true. Gratitude is the best place to be. I could look back on the last 16 years and say, I did it all myself and all this kind of stuff, but I didn’t. Every step of the way I was helped in some way by somebody.

27:05 And so I’m constantly grateful for that and humble about it because, you know, I don’t know. How else could you be? I don’t know. But yeah, that basically. And following your heart, I guess, you want to be good to people and so you attract those kind of people into your life.

27:27 And again, grateful because I’m really lucky to have those people in my life. I’ll look on your Facebook and every couple of weeks I’ll see that you and your wife, who’s super good looking, by the way, for those of you who are wondering. And I’ll see you guys are in like Colorado, like watching it and you’ll be a picture of some amazing sunset or something. And then the next time you’ll be in the Maldives, you know, and then you’ll be something about your new book.

27:56 And you’ll be like, wow, this guy just has it going on. You know, it just seems to flow. And it’s just amazing, man. You’re someone I really admire and look up to when it comes to that. It’s very cool, James.

28:06 Thank you. Yeah. You know, again, those three things are what sort of the only thing that I could point to other than being really lucky is that. It’s strange because, you know, a lot of guys, especially entrepreneurs or, you know, James could come in here and be a great man and he would say, you got to do this and you got to do this. But the last thing that anyone would usually tell you is to give back to other people and to be grateful and humble.

28:34 You know, I mean, that’s not usually what you hear. Do you think that’s an error in a lot of the Western culture? Is the I’m going to get mine mentality? Well, again, not to sound like a pain in the ass, but it’s not I really I don’t know whether it’s an error or not, but it doesn’t seem to work very often. And I can definitely say the happiest people I know live by those three things, whether they know it or not.

29:00 You hear them say thank you a lot. They’re very quick to say sorry. You know, they’re very quick to forgive. And they are the healthiest and happiest people that I know. You know, gratitude is one of the highest vibrations, dude.

29:14 It’s such a powerful thing. Yeah. Yeah. And even the fact that we’re here, like back in our old shows always used to say to me about OSHA. And it’s another one of his quotes is like, people just take for granted the fact that we’re here.

29:28 And I know in some Vedic scriptures, they claim that a human life is actually something that’s very difficult to attain. Like a soul, you can’t just come and play the human game. It’s you have to go through a whole bunch of incarnations and other planets and other existences before you earn the right to be a human. So just the fact that we are here doing these amazing things, like walking, eating, breathing, almost crazy stuff is something to be thankful for.

29:51 Right. Yeah. It is just sort of quickly back to as well, happiness. Since I saw the baby scan, because we’re having a baby and it didn’t happen straight away for us. So we feel really blessed and lucky to be having a beautiful baby.

30:13 But since I saw that scan, I literally burst out crying at the drop of a hat. And it may well happen here. And don’t worry about it. People cry all the time. Crying is good.

30:22 Yeah. You have changed for a long time. It really is. No, but I mean, man, honestly, right now I’m writing a book about being a man. It’s clean and lean for men.

30:36 And it’s all geared towards, you know, how we do this as men. But if I was searching for what it meant to be a man before, I think I really get it now when you have a baby and you have this woman that you love, that’s your partner and your best friend, and there’s this little thing that you created inside of her tummy. And it’s unbelievable. That’s what it’s about, is being a good husband and a good father for me, you know, or, you know, whatever, if I was gay, being a good boyfriend, like whatever it is, it’s about being a better version of yourself.

31:11 And now, you know, what motivates me as well is what I do is for my little girl and for my wife and to protect them and, you know, I don’t know. That’s just… Rose, let’s hear it. That’s strong. Could you tell us more about that book that you’re writing?

31:28 That would be a man. I mean, that’s quite a topic. Well, yeah. I mean, basically it’s kind of… Because a lot of the books so far have been geared towards women and, you know, a lot of the…

31:39 We get a lot of letters from guys saying, dude, come on, like, I’ve got to eat more or really I do, you know, jumping jacks. Like, is there something else I can do? So we wrote exercise programs specific to men. We wrote, you know, menu plans specific to men. And then, you know, some of the best advice I ever got was grow up and be a man.

32:03 And I didn’t really know what that meant. Nick would say man up. Right. Sometimes you got to, you know, who am I? What should I do?

32:11 Well, sometimes that’s society’s way of trying to get you to conform to their expectations as well. You know, like, be a man, go sit in the cubicle doing something you hate. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t…

32:23 But I do know what you mean. Well, that’s the thing. Because that’s why I wanted to kind of say what being a man meant to me. Because I don’t think that’s what it means to me. Growing up, going and sitting in a cubicle and doing whatever.

32:36 I think it’s about, you know, committing to something and then having integrity. And then if you say you’re going to do something, do it. And then be gentle and kind and love and cry and, you know, protect the people around you that you love and that kind of thing. You know, being humble, being grateful and being strong enough to forgive, you know, like, recently Chrissy and I, Chrissy’s my wife, we’re in, you know, an awful situation where, you know, on the surface of it, it seemed like we were, you know, horribly betrayed and we could spend our whole time trying to be right about that and being annoyed and being angry.

33:16 But it’s just going to make us sick, you know. Being angry at someone’s like swallowing the poison, expecting someone else to die, it just doesn’t work. It’s just going to make us sick. So you let it go. It takes a lot of strength.

33:29 And, you know, Chrissy’s far stronger than me. She did it straight away. And I’m holding on to it and going through scenarios in my head and I’m like, turn off. But, you know. It does, it poisons you.

33:39 It absolutely does. I’ve seen people that are angry and have been angry for years and angry at someone. It’s almost like they put their life on pause. And now that someone else, usually the person they’re angry now, gets to live their life for them. And so as long as it goes, it’s like this person’s stealing years from you.

33:54 Broz, you seem to have talked to him earlier. What were your thoughts about seeing the baby scan and feeling that was your purpose? I really want to know your thoughts on that. Seeing his baby scan? No, like when he was so emotional.

34:05 He said, that’s why I believe we’re here. I think it’s cool, man. I like what he’s doing. I like your concept. No, but I mean, are you thinking about that more?

34:12 Because we… About what? Having a kid, my baby. No, I just took ayahuasca, man. Get it straight.

34:18 That would have made you want to think more about continuing the rose line. Did it make you think about it when you took it? A little bit. Really? Yeah.

34:28 Speaking of that, I’m going to say hello to our sponsor, which is On It Lab. This is the maker of Alpha Brain. James has actually taken one. It’s very brave of you, actually. Can you tell us about Alpha Brain?

34:37 It’s a neutropic. A neutropic, I mean, to cut a short story long, it’s… I like that phrase. Yeah, it’s quite cool. It’s a set of specialized vitamins for your brain.

34:47 It’ll help you process information more quickly and just help with clarity of thought. And I’m pretty sure that you noticed how amazing the science James has been dropping on us has been in the past 45 minutes, because he chugged in Alpha Brain before. And you will have some cool lucid dreams tonight. Pretty much guaranteed. They’re also the makers of Shroom Tech, which Nick is holding on to, which has the quarter-seps mushroom in there.

35:10 And that’s great for anaerobic cardio, I find. I really like it. So if you want to check those out, you can go to onit.com, that’s O-N-I-T, and use the customer code LondonReal, and you get 10% off and support the show. So, you know, I have to ask you, what’s it like to train Al McPherson? You know, with all of those people, they’ve been great friends, and this isn’t me just being diplomatic.

35:38 I mean, you know, you work with someone for 15 years, and it’s kind of like just, I don’t know, working with Nick. You know what I mean? Like, you just, hey, how are you? It’s just, it is what it is. That’s how it is, really and truly.

35:51 Like, and yeah, that’s it. I mean, honestly, if there was some kind of like thing I’d tell you, but it’s kind of like good people are good people and they’re brilliant to be around. Does she make your job easy in some areas? Oh, listen, I mean, the celebrity endorsements have absolutely opened doors that wouldn’t have even existed without it. So again, I mean, like, there’s not a day goes by where I’m not grateful for that.

36:21 Obviously, they’ve kind of given you permission to use their names, which is a big statement in itself. Huge. And it wouldn’t happen if what we were saying wasn’t good, if it didn’t help people. I mean, we’ve never paid anyone to say anything, so all of our ambassadors have done so for free of charge and because they believe in it. You know, one of the most amazing guys for me in the world is Hugh Grant, who’s been such an incredible supporter and he’s done things of such unbelievable generosity.

36:56 It just, you couldn’t believe it. Like, he’s a good, good man. Wow. Absolutely. What’s it like working with him?

37:03 It’s great and he’s funny, but you know, a super generous soul, you know, really kind, kind and gentle person who’s highly principled and honest and I like him. I like him a lot. And we also work with Rosie Huntington-Whiteley, who’s young and at the start of what could be an incredible career and literally will always look for what she can do to help. You’re being very humble here, but they obviously think a lot of you. So what do you do that they can’t do on their own?

37:34 Because you’re obviously doing something. Well, I mean, I don’t know. I spend a lot of time figuring out what’s going to work for people in terms of their health. So, you know, I’m committed to that. That’s my job and that’s, like I said before, a big responsibility.

37:50 So I guess I got pretty good at it and they trust me. So that, I guess. Just to tell them what to eat for the training sessions that you come up with. Yeah. To make sure they’re there.

38:02 I mean, do they kind of make a commitment to you? Are you the guy that gets them on the phone and says you got to be here? Not really, because again… You don’t seem like that guy. No.

38:10 You know, you either do it or you don’t, you know. And if you don’t, you know that it sucks. It doesn’t work. So, you know, they’re smart people. They want to come in and do something good for themselves.

38:23 And again, you know, the philosophy, you know, we’re teaming up with the Blue Marine Foundation, which are an unbelievable organization. They actually get things done in creating marine parks so that we don’t kind of like fish ourselves out of food and destroy our oceans, which are actually our lungs. You know, because you can’t be healthy if where you live is filthy and polluted. So, you know, wellness of the human being is completely intrinsically linked with wellness of the planet.

38:51 And so we’ve teamed up with them. And one of my best friends is a guy called David de Rothschild, who’s an eco warrior who could be doing anything. Anything. But what he’s decided to do is bring awareness to how we can help the planet. And not by telling people that they’re bad or what you do by living is bad for the environment.

39:10 He’s just like, come on guys, we can do something cool here. And so that’s what I want to be on board with. And again, that’s what I guess maybe inspires people to be part of what we’re doing and saying, because, you know, it’s good. Well, we need people like this to endorse London Real, man. I mean, his people.

39:29 Well, I mean, in general, yeah. Well, him as well. Yeah, no, it’s a good vibe. And I was looking at your website earlier, which is bodyism.com. B-O-D-Y-I-S-M.

39:39 Yeah. And look, it really looked really good. I saw a bunch of products you guys use. But if you had to describe bodyism as compared to the rest of the market, what’s different about your products or your methodology? Well, I should qualify the answer by saying that I actually don’t know much about what other people do, because I’m so engrossed in what we do.

39:59 Okay. And that’s the truth. So I don’t know how it compares. It’s like the anti-capitalist capitalist. I love it.

40:07 One thing I notice about James is he’s always going to courses. He’s always progressing his knowledge in his field. And I think that probably separates you from a lot of other trainers and well-being professionals, because you haven’t said, okay, this is what I do, and that’s it. And close yourself off. You’re always looking to learn.

40:26 Yeah, absolutely. I don’t know how you could operate in any other way, to be honest. But, you know, I guess the more that I’ve done this, the more that I’ve seen it. It’s less about some funky exercise or some special thing. And it’s more about having people feel good about themselves and then everything flows from there.

40:48 They stand up straighter. They eat better because they feel better about them. You know, they make kind of choices for themselves. It’s really simple. So how can you do that?

40:56 I mean, do you do, like, personal coaching? Or do you get involved with them personalities? No, I mean, we do. I mean, sometimes, you know, when you walk into our gym, you’ll see it’s interesting stuff. You know, there’s monkey bars and things like that.

41:09 As I said before, it’s a place where you can really engage your curiosity. But there’s no loud music. When people come in there, we listen to them. And it’s unbelievable how rarely that happens, to actually be listened to. You know, for a lot of people.

41:26 So sometimes that’s enough. You know, just to recognize that these people, you know, they are worth something. You know, they really do deserve something good. And so we treat them in that way. And so actually, they start to feel that way about themselves.

41:43 And then everything flows from there. That’s amazing. Do you ever notice, one thing I notice by myself, personally, how rarely when I’m talking to someone, when I’m listening to someone actually, how very often I am listening, but I’m not listening. You know what I mean? You’re waiting for a break to say something.

42:03 Well, you’re thinking of something. Well, just I’m watching their mouth move, and the concepts are forming in my mind, but I’m not giving them my full focused attention and rarely paying them the concentration they deserve. Do you know what I mean? Do you ever catch yourself doing that? Yeah, I try not to, to do that.

42:18 But I got a theory about what makes James so successful. I think people come in, and they talk to him, and they see that he’s listening to what they say, and he’s open-minded to a lot of things. And once they start training with him, they make, probably without knowing it, a subconscious commitment to him. Because ultimately, you know, when it comes to a trainer or a martial arts sensei or something, you ultimately feel almost a commitment to them as much as yourself.

42:41 You know, they don’t want to let him down, I’m thinking. You know, when I first started training martial arts, there was no way I could let my sensei Chris down, because, and I even thought, in my spare time, what would Chris do? Or what would Chris think of me doing this? That’s what I used to think. And like, all sorts of things in my life.

42:55 And I’m wondering if James Clients don’t think that to a certain extent. Like, what would James say if he saw me doing this? He probably wouldn’t yell at me, but he wouldn’t be too impressed. Yeah. I don’t know, am I wrong?

43:05 That’s just an assumption. I don’t know, I don’t know. I hope so, because that’d be nice, but I’m not sure. I think it’s a pretty weak frame, though, to be, God knows how much of my life I’ve thought, about like, oh, what if Roger Gracie saw me doing this? I think inspired money is the word I’m thinking of.

43:21 Interesting. I said to him, funnily enough, on the way up here in the elevator, I said we were talking about business. And he was, I think it was Andrew Carnegie, I think he was a steel tycoon in the States. And he said, 90% of your success in any job is your ability to relate to people. And he’s obviously very good at relating to people and dealing with people.

43:40 And in spite of that, he still has all the technical success as well. So when you merge those two things, sorry, not the technical success, technical ability, when you merge those two things, success is probably inevitable, right? Very well be. Yeah. What do you see your life in five years or ten years?

43:57 And where do you want it to be? Or where do you not want it to be? I mean, you seem like the kind of guy that doesn’t really want to be too famous, necessarily. But, yeah, so where are you in five years? I mean, obviously, you know, you’ll have a four and a half year old daughter, maybe.

44:10 But what’s happened in them for you? Well, one thing that I learned from my wife, which has worked really well for me, is to always focus on what you want, as opposed to what you don’t want. That’s smart. Yeah. That’s such a simple concept.

44:24 Yeah. Gosh, it’s a big one. Yeah. So if you don’t mind, I’ll go about what I do want. And I’d like to have some beautiful, happy, healthy children.

44:35 And for us to be really proud of the work we do and continue to help people. And that’s really what I’d like to do. To me, that’s happiness. I’d love to spend a lot of time near the ocean. And that’s about it.

44:51 I’m pretty simple. Okay. It’s making me think twice about the kids’ thing, bros. Oh, it is. Oh, my gosh.

44:58 If you’ve had an effect on him, then you’re a powerful man. That’s what I was asking you earlier, dude. I was like, man, this has hit me. You mentioned ocean. And I mean, you’re from Australia.

45:08 I guess you live in London. Is that right? And I know that when I go somewhere like Barcelona or Switzerland, the environment really does affect me a lot. And we’re obviously in an urban environment here. And I think parts of London are beautiful, but sometimes it’s very urban.

45:22 And how much of that do you think affects your clients or people’s mentality, personality, just being next to nature or within nature? Yeah, it’s a very profound and powerful effect being near nature. And again, when Chrissy and I were trying to have a baby, we knew that we needed to be by the ocean instinctively. We did. So we went and did that.

45:46 We spent four months. We went back to Australia and lived right on the beach. And lo and behold, we’re having a baby. Whether it was that or not, I don’t know, but that’s what we both felt. Something just came about.

46:01 We need to leave here and we need to be by the ocean. What kind of life operates on instinct? I mean, really all of it. And then you figure out a way to make it sound right. But all of it comes from instinct, for me anyway.

46:14 Because you can’t figure stuff out. There’s too many variables on the simplest thing. So you learn to trust yourself. We’re pretty amazing animals. We’ve got this incredible instinct.

46:31 And if you can tune into just a little bit of it and then however it comes out, however you want to justify it, that’s fine. But I’m happy with how we make our decisions. And again, in terms of manifesting stuff, we both, Chrissy and I, feel pretty strongly that that’s a very real thing. So we spend a lot of time, again, focusing on what we want and then bringing that into reality. So we live between London and Sydney right now.

47:04 And two years ago, we decided that that’s what we wanted to do. And then right now, that’s our reality. And we spend a lot of time in beautiful places because that’s what we wanted to bring into reality. We’re very powerful. There’s a lot of stuff that gets in the way of that.

47:22 Limiting beliefs and so on and so forth. And it’s all so simple. I don’t have the secret by any stretch, but just when you guys were talking about being able to relate to people, and I’m thinking, well, maybe you could write a book about that and there’s all sorts of things, but actually, just listen. Because how often do you actually do it? Maybe it’s really easy to relate to people by just actually listening to what they say rather than waiting to say what you’re just about to say.

47:48 Maybe it’s that simple, I don’t know. I think so. I mean, based on that article, I just wrote about the ayahuasca. I think that most people’s problems they have with other people are really problems they have with themselves. And the ultimate battle is a battle with ourselves.

48:02 And I like this listening idea. I think I’m going to try it a bit more. I think he is a guru. You didn’t want us to use that term. Is it health guru?

48:11 Forget the health. Well being. He’s just a guru. He’s a guru. I had just a random question, but this is like a technical question.

48:20 Quinoa, how do you feel about it? It’s like downshift. I saw one of your tweets earlier and I was like, man, I still never really tried it. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, it’s good.

48:34 And I mean, it works definitely makes me feel good. So it’s okay. It’s great. Is that what you meant? Yeah, because some people call it quinoa and other people call it quinoa.

48:47 Yeah, I thought I pronounced it right. Yeah, I mean, it seems to be pretty good. Because the highest amino acid profile of any grain. Yeah. So there’s all those sorts of things that on paper, sound really good and I definitely feel good on it.

49:05 And definitely a better option than refined white flour. Do you stay away from that? Yeah, I do. So basic rule of thumbs is stay away from the sugar and any kinds of sugar, I guess, and the white flour. Has any of the red flags come up?

49:20 I mean, look, if it’s got chemicals in it that you don’t even know how to pronounce, then don’t eat it. If it’s fluorescent blue, orange or green, then don’t eat it. If it didn’t run, swim, fly or grow, then I wouldn’t eat it in general. That’s cool. It’s a good rule of thumb.

49:38 Just avoiding white flour and sugar. We’ll change people’s lives. It takes about 95% of the high street off the menu. Yeah, I mean, I said that many years ago about wheat and breakfast cereals and sugary this and that and how much of an adverse effect it’s having on our health. And I got in trouble by the Dietitians Association of a certain country.

50:01 And I was trying to figure out why the hell they were against what I was saying. And then I went on their website and they were sponsored by Kellogg’s and Nestle. And it’s just sort of like, wow, people are really up against it. It’s tough when like government bodies are sponsored by food companies that make this kind of junk. Do you run into like studies sometimes made by these companies or studies that are sponsored by companies that have interests in those kind of things?

50:30 Yeah, I mean, you know, and again, I don’t want to get my tinfoil hat on and go into conspiracies, but a lot of those studies are paid, bought and paid for. Right. You know, so you have to sort of again be really bring it back to basics, be really simple about it. No one’s really ever going to tell you that fresh fruit and vegetables and good organic meat and fish and eggs are bad for you. You know, in general, they’ve been telling us that for years, like eggs are bad for you, red meat’s bad for you.

51:00 I mean, it’s all bullshit. You know, I mean, yeah, the hormones that they put in the cheap meat is great for you. It’s not so great, but if you go and you hunt a deer and eat that meat, I mean, that’s the best source of fuel for your body that will help repair your tissues and help you live a healthy lifestyle. Yeah. What are your thoughts on veganism?

51:21 I heard something really funny the other day and they said that. Do you know how you find out if someone’s a vegan? They look really sickly. No, just wait and they’ll tell you. Right.

51:34 Yeah. Sorry. On that note, be careful here because they could be meaner than Nestle. Yeah. I actually really, I think it’s a beautiful way to live and just biochemically, it doesn’t work for me at all, really.

51:57 I’ve tried it and yeah, I don’t feel great on it and maybe I did it wrong. Again, I’m never going to tell anyone, you’re right, you’re wrong, whatever. But it’s a tough way of going about it, but if we were all vegan, the world would probably be a better place. That’s interesting. Did you find it was hard to keep muscle mass or you just didn’t feel energy level?

52:21 I just could barely get out of bed. Yeah, for me, that’s me. But I mean, red meat in terms of its environmental impact, it’s a disaster. All these kinds of things. But for me, you’ve got to find something that’s sustainable for your life as well as the planet.

52:39 So I have a couple of vegetarian days a week and that’s good, it’s great for you. It’s great, it gives your system a break, but it also keeps me feeling strong and maybe there’s a different way and I’m still searching for it. What are your thoughts on intermittent fasting? Yeah, someone asked me about that the other day as well. And if it’s good and it doesn’t make you feel miserable, then fine.

53:05 There’s a lot of research to say that it’s good. There’s some researchers say that it’s probably not good. To be honest, I can’t be bothered thinking about it that much for me. So I just want to have breakfast, lunch and dinner and feel good after each one of them. And be mindful of what I’m doing to the planet and what I’m going to leave for my beautiful children.

53:29 Yeah, that’s how I feel about that. Did you find this kind of shift in mentality to where thinking about others, has that happened? Has you kind of gotten older, like into your mid-30s? Or was it a real wake-up call when you’ve got a baby coming? No, that’s what’s driven me and motivated me for a long time.

53:47 But from a selfish point of view, having a baby, having this beautiful child and bringing her into the world, it doesn’t allow room for some of the little niggling problems that you have about yourself. They kind of seem ridiculous. So it’s a really good thing for you, for me. As a person, God, it’s liberating. Because it’s like, come on, what? Grow up.

54:19 You’ve got a baby to think about. Seriously, are you actually thinking this? Maybe we should do it. Remember, we did an ayahuasca challenge. Maybe we should do a baby challenge.

54:28 Can we edit that out? As long as we can tape a before and after, I’m happy. As long as we can get it on London Real. The thought of that is more daunting than stepping in the cage with Anderson Silver. Right. Because there you know what’s going to happen.

54:44 So, guys, that’s pretty much our time is up. If people want to get a hold of you, I know you’re on Twitter. It’s James Duigan, which is J-A-M-E-S-D-U-I-G-A-N. That’s at on Twitter. And then Bodyism.com is the best way to hold you.

54:59 And you’re on Facebook as well. Yeah, we are. Yeah, Bodyism. And to get your book, is Amazon the best way? Yeah, you can get it on Amazon or on our website.

55:12 And that’s a clean and lean diet, and the one for men is coming soon. It’s coming in January. And what’s it going to be called? It’s called Clean and Lean for Men Warrior. That’s powerful. That is powerful.

55:26 I’m looking forward to that. Do you like writing? Yeah, I love it, but it doesn’t always come easy, that’s for sure. I mean, I’ve been tearing my hair out for the last three days. Are you trying to do it yet?

55:38 I should give him a copy of The War of Art. Yeah. It’s a good book about releasing your… Inner creativity. Inner creativity. So, well, that’s awesome.

55:47 If you guys have been enjoying the show, please give it a share on Facebook or on YouTube and let your friends know about it. Should we tell them the news, Brian? I think we’d better hold off. Nick and I might have some really interesting news coming up, some crazy things happening at London Real, but we’ll have to give it another week. Yeah.

56:04 But feel free to guess. Yeah, there you go, James. It’s really nice meeting you. Thank you. It was completely different than what I expected, which is always awesome.

56:12 You know what I love about guests like this? Is I leave after the hour, like, expanded. And feeling great. Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah, no, I’m like, it’s like a pleasant surprise, you know?

56:23 So, no, I appreciate that, James. Thanks for coming along. Thank you. Thanks, James. Thanks, man.