“Desire needs space” is one of Esther Perel’s best-known ideas, and in this clip from her 2015 London Real interview she explains where it comes from. Brian Rose asks about a point from her famous TED talk: that we often feel most attracted to our partner not when we’re closest, but when we see them from a little distance.
Her answer draws on years of asking couples one simple question around the world.
▶ Watch the full episode: Esther Perel – Sex & Infidelity
One question, 22 countries
Perel says she always believed that desire needs space: a gap to cross, someone to reach towards, some tension. But it was an abstract idea, so she made it concrete. In 22 countries, from Turkey and Argentina to Israel, Belgium, France and the US, she asked people: when do you find yourself most drawn to your partner? Not just sexually, but drawn to them.
Over several years, the same groups of answers kept appearing.
When they’re radiant
The first group, she says, was about seeing a partner in their element: on stage, passionate about something, competent, thriving. The word people didn’t use, but that sums it up, is radiant. Admiration, she notes, matters more here than respect.
What all these moments share is distance. If your partner is playing the piano or speaking on stage, you’re not sitting next to them. You’re watching them as someone separate. Only one answer was gender-specific: many women said they felt drawn to their partner when he played with the children. “There is no female version of that,” she says.
Absence and surprise
The second group was about absence: when one partner is away, and the moment they reunite. Desire, she explains, is rooted in longing. Other answers involved humour, the way someone was dressed, or seeing a partner vulnerable when they usually aren’t. Across all of them, she sees surprise, novelty and the unknown.
Freedom and security
Can a couple make this happen deliberately? Yes, Perel says, at any moment, but you have to be comfortable with your partner’s independence. She uses Brian as the example. If he leaves to interview someone and his partner says “have a fabulous time, you’ll be great”, he goes out feeling alive, and wants to come home and share it. If instead he hears “again? You’d rather be with them than with me”, he leaves feeling guilty, and home starts to feel suffocating.
Her conclusion: “we need freedom and we need security.” We want to come back to people who open up space for us, and we want to break away from people who try to hem us in.
What to take from it
Perel’s advice isn’t to create distance for its own sake. It’s to let your partner be fully themselves, encourage what makes them come alive, and sometimes simply watch. Admiration, curiosity and a little mystery keep desire alive in a way that constant closeness can’t.
Who is Esther Perel?
Esther Perel is a Belgian psychotherapist, born in Antwerp in 1958, known for her work on relationships and sexuality. She is the author of Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs, and hosts the podcast Where Should We Begin? Her TED talks on desire and infidelity have been watched tens of millions of times.
In her full 2015 London Real episode, she talks with Brian Rose about desire, security, affairs and modern love. You can also watch her London Real Success Secrets: Esther Perel – Success Secrets.
See everything Esther Perel has done with London Real on her guest page: Esther Perel on London Real.
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Transcript
Transcript: Esther Perel – “Desire Needs Space”: When We Feel Most Drawn To Our Partner
0:00 Brian Rose: You made a great point in your TED talk, where you said that when you’re looking at your partner very close, it’s hard to get that desire. But when you’re at arm’s length, watching them do something well or interact with others, you can rekindle the mystery about them. Did I understand that right?
0:19 Esther Perel: I was always saying that desire needs space.
0:25 Brian Rose: That’s an interesting concept.
0:26 Esther Perel: Yes. Desire needs space, difference: a bridge to cross, somebody to conquer, to bring towards you, a tension. But I could never concretise it. It was an abstract concept. So I began to ask people in 22 countries: when do you find yourself most drawn to your partner? Not just sexually attracted, but drawn to your partner. And I began to listen to the answers. This took a few years: asking this in Turkey, in Argentina, in Israel, in Brussels, in Paris, in New York. And I began to see that certain groups of answers appeared each time.
1:09 Esther Perel: A whole set of answers had to do with: when my partner is on stage, when he’s passionate about things, when she’s competent, when they’re thriving. When they are radiant. The word isn’t used, but that’s what it represented. Their radiance can be because they’re good at something, because they’re in their element, because they’re being admired. Admiration is the piece here, more than respect. And all of these involve otherness. When I look at my partner doing the things they’re so good at, if my partner is at the piano, I’m not sitting next to them. If they’re on stage, I’m not next to them.
1:55 Esther Perel: The only one that is gender-specific is “when he plays with the children.” There is no female version of that. Nobody thinks it’s sexy if she plays with the kids. So when I see my partner in their uniqueness, in their specificity, in their element, it by definition invites a perspective and an ability to see their otherness.
2:23 Esther Perel: Group number two: when we are away. When I’m away, when he’s away, when she’s away, when we reunite. That always brought the notion that desire is rooted in absence and in longing. When she makes me laugh, when she’s dressed a certain way, when I see him vulnerable, when I see her vulnerable, which means they usually are not. It’s always elements of surprise, of novelty, of the unexpected, of the unknown.
2:51 Brian Rose: So could a couple listening right now engineer those things? Could they put themselves in situations where they see that in each other?
2:58 Esther Perel: At any moment. But you have to be comfortable. Say I know your radiance is going to the studio to interview people. If you leave, and I say, “Have a fabulous time, you’re going to be great, you’re at your best there,” I’m not in it with you. I’m just admiring, cherishing, encouraging you. But it’s a separate you. If, when you say, “I’m going to the studio,” I say, “Again? Twice a week now? You didn’t have enough when you were just doing one? You really don’t want to be here. You’d rather be with all these people than with me,” it’s a very different departure, and a different relationship, and a different tension.
3:55 Esther Perel: Because the person who leaves with somebody saying, “Go for it, have a fabulous time, enjoy,” experiences the erotic, in that they feel alive. They’re in their passion, doing the thing they want to do. Here you are with your new endeavour, really excited about it, and then you want to go home and talk about it. But the person who leaves because somebody just said, “You’re abandoning me again, obviously everything is more interesting than me, why am I not enough for you,” isn’t really eager to come home afterwards, because it starts to feel suffocating.
4:33 Brian Rose: So you can actually engineer your own happiness by encouraging your mate to go and do these things and be the best of them, because you know you’ll be attracted to that, and they’ll be attracted back to you.
4:45 Esther Perel: Who doesn’t want to come back to someone who gives them freedom? Who not just gives them freedom, but encourages their freedom? You want to come back. Because we need both: we need freedom and we need security. When we are in the presence of people who open up the space for us, we want to come back to them. When we are with people who want to hem us in, we want to break out.
5:14 Brian Rose: There’s another point you made in that talk: that it used to be a village that provided all these relationships we would grow old with, and these days, to a certain extent, it’s that one other person we expect so many things from.
