Full transcript: Brock Pierce on London Real
2:49 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Brock Pierce, the blockchain pioneer, investor, futurist, and philanthropist. You have an extensive track record of founding, advising, and investing in disruptive businesses and have been credited with pioneering the market for digital currency, raising more than $5 billion for companies you founded. You were an early investor in Bitcoin and one of the largest investors in the Ethereum crowd sale while also being a founding member of the Bitcoin Supper Club back in 2013.
3:26 You are the chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation and co-founder of the EOS Alliance, Brock One, Blockchain Capital, Tether, and Mastercoin. You believe we are experiencing the fourth industrial revolution and that blockchain and cryptocurrency will completely transform the world we live in. You have said the recent Bitcoin rally is being driven by speculation connected to a Bitcoin ETF and illustrates how Congress finally recognizes that the American people should have access to this revolutionary investment opportunity.
3:55 Brock, welcome to London Real.
3:57 Brock Pierce: I’m glad to be here.
3:58 Brian Rose: And shortly after we just did something similar in Dubai. Yeah, you’re following me to London because we sat down on stage literally eight days ago in Dubai and had an amazing conversation. Everyone seemed to be kind of hanging on the words toward the end. We started in crypto and ended in consciousness and there was something happening in that room.
4:21 And we’ve had a big bull run since then. I know, since then. So we got all sorts of stuff to talk about. I’ll probably start with Bitcoin and end with consciousness again today. But yeah, let’s talk about the news because getting your perspective on this recent pop is crucial because you have been there and done that and seen this whole evolution.
4:41 And obviously the bear market last year, Bitcoin hit thirty five thousand. It’s still above thirty four thousand. That came really out of nowhere the last few days. What do you make of this happening? What do you see that other people don’t see?
4:58 What should people know? This is the high since May twenty two. It’s a big moment for crypto.
5:04 Brock Pierce: Yeah. So first of all, any time the market’s up or the market’s down, I can always say with a hundred percent certainty.
5:11 Why? Which is rare because it’s hard to know. But it’s pretty basic. There were more buyers than sellers or more sellers than buyers. Now, what we say on Wall Street, beyond that, I mean, it’s anyone that really claims to know.
5:27 You probably shouldn’t take too seriously. Agree. But generally, the main driver of this was speculation of the SEC, the Securities and Exchange Commission, US regulator approving a Bitcoin ETF for nearly a decade. It’s been being worked on. The Winklevoss brothers having really pioneered the first filing and now the black rocks of the world, you know, having filed to do this.
5:54 So it’s it’s come a long ways. And you had a US regulator, the commissioner of the SEC, Gary Gensler, had really not just him and they’ve been blocking and blocking and blocking and blocking all attempts for a decade. But Gary, having really taken it the furthest where he became the most active, what I’d say, regulator, not acting with guidance from the legislative branch of the US government or Congress, but regulating the industry through enforcement and murky, ambiguous enforcement. The industry had continually been seeking guidance or clarity from government. You know, where are the lines?
6:37 How do we operate as good actors and constantly seeking guidance to be the best actors they can to ensure that the United States is a participant in innovation? It’s what made the country so successful, the capital of innovation. And unfortunately, due to bad guidance or a lack thereof, really, from this most recent round, places like where we are, the UAE, Dubai have become major hubs. And it’s because a lot of the most talented people in the world that would have liked to have been building in the US can’t because of Gary Gensler.
7:10 So good news is Congress has listened and enough people in the US government have heard the harm that’s been caused through, call it regulation through enforcement rather than legislation and clear guidance, that they basically said, ah, and it looks like we will finally see something happen. Also, probably due because influential forces like BlackRock are involved. You know, I’ve been doing my best on Capitol Hill, knocking on every door, but they also have quite a bit of influence.
7:44 And so I think we’re finally reaching that tipping point where enough influence and enough momentum has been reached and the Asian markets trading, the DTCC, an organization almost no one’s ever heard of. I guess gave a ticker and I think that caused that to happen. I don’t think that issue actually means anything. I think they are obligated to do that. But the crypto market is always, you know, quick to react positively, quick to react negatively. It’s it’s an emotional roller coaster ride, not for the faint of heart.
8:18 And also something I wouldn’t encourage people invest in. I encourage people to invest in themselves, in your own knowing, in your own education, so that you can make informed decisions for yourself because no one can manipulate you when you actually take the time to learn. Which is why I’ve never advised people to buy more than $100 of Bitcoin. Because you’re investing in your own knowing. So that as you learn how it works, how to do it safely, you can make decisions for yourself.
8:46 Don’t do it because I tell you to. Do it because you’ve decided it’s the right thing for you.
8:51 Brian Rose: That’s really good advice. Looking at this asset now, I mean, two or three years ago, you know, the Jamie Diamonds, head of JP Morgan, the Larry thinks of BlackRock and even Buffett to this day, they had nothing but bad things to say about crypto. It was rat poison. It was drug dealer money. It was all these things. And yet in the last year, it all seems to be changing as a narrative. Now, it’s a non-correlated real financial asset.
9:15 That portfolio managers look at like, wow, I could really use this thing for some outsized returns. You know, if the ETF happens, I mean, people are talking about even 1% of portfolios going in there could mean just an avalanche of money as in trillions of dollars going into a $600 billion market cap asset. Like, what do you see happening, you know, in the next six months or a year?
9:38 Brock Pierce: I think what you just described is possible. I don’t want to overstate it.
9:43 As you’ll notice, I’m unusually conservative for someone that’s not very conservative. But I understand the responsibility I have as someone people listen to. And I’ve also learned in my youth, I was part of the Internet 1.0 sort of phase back in the beginning in the 90s. And I learned anytime I give financial advice or any suggestion or even just an offhand comment, sometimes people may take it, make decisions in their life. And if it doesn’t work out, they blame you. So the why is the advice you give, knowing people might be very upset if it doesn’t work out for them.
10:22 And if you’ve misled or misstated or overstated, I think it’s so I take that that that job very I tried to be as responsible as I can. And so, yeah, it’s very real. It could bring in a massive amount of money. And the specifics of why that is is and where I’m really disappointed with what the SEC had done. The American people could have had access to safely and easily through their fidelity account or through their brokerage account, their trade account, their Charles Schwab account, whatever it is, they could have been able to easily buy Bitcoin, which was very hard for most people 10 years ago, even five years ago.
11:15 And, you know, the American people could have been a major participant in some serious wealth creation with ease. And so it costs the American people a lot. Now, I’m better late than never. It’s not too late. And so that’s a good thing. And the real driver of this is as an institution, most institutions by charter are prohibited from buying something like this, because there’s custodial laws, there’s all these laws.
11:42 It’s not like if you’re a fund manager, you can’t just go buy Bitcoin, depending upon the nature of your investment vehicle. But once it’s in an ETF product, it’s like all systems go any institutional vehicle, for the most part, that can invest in any public asset. It’s certainly through an ETF now has got the mechanisms by which they can. And so it’s not just family offices trading on their, you know, accounts anymore. It’s not just new hybrid investment vehicles that may buy mandate or charter have the ability to invest in such things. It opens up the largest institutions in the world and everything in between.
12:26 And every single person with a brokerage account in the US or anyone that goes through US trading vehicles to have direct access, which could drive a great deal of interest, especially in times of uncertainty, like the ones we are currently in.
12:42 Brian Rose: Right. And why do you think people now look at this as an asset with real utility? Do you think it’s because of the money printing during 2020? Do you think it’s because the way the dollar was kind of censored and sanctioned, you know, in Russia, for example? Do you think it’s the fact that it can’t be taken away from you, like we saw happen with the Canadian trucker protest where people’s bank accounts were seized?
13:09 I mean, these are events that I would say the general public never thought could happen before, you know, where the dollar could be removed from someone because of something the country did, or they actually saw the printing of money. Do you think these things have opened people’s eyes to say, wow, this is an asset class that actually is unique, you know, it’s something that, you know, can’t be created. It’s something that I can have custody of, I can transfer to someone else.
13:32 Do you think it’s those reasons?
13:34 Brock Pierce: I think it’s all of them. All of those. And to each person, it’s personal. Right. It’s based on your own life experience. True.
13:40 You know, it’s your you see what, you know, you are most concerned with, you know, and as I told people early on, you know, because a lot of people back when everyone was saying, oh, rat poison, you know, or whatever scandalous sensational headline they’d read probably didn’t read the article. But they felt they were informed and wanted to argue. And I just read the headline. Exactly. And again, back to, you know, people wanting to just argue that don’t know what they’re talking about. But I enjoyed that.
14:09 So people would approach me, even I’d be out at dinner in 2013, 14, 15. And somehow we’re having a conversation, someone would like opine from another table. Bitcoin. Yeah, tell me why I should want Bitcoin. I’m like, you shouldn’t. And they’re like, huh? Like, it’s not for you. Yeah. What do you mean it’s not for me? I go, do you have a bank account? And they’re like, yeah, I could you have a credit card?
14:33 And they’re like, yeah, I go, what if you live south of the border? What if you lived in the developing world where you probably don’t have a bank account, you don’t have access to basic financial services, and you live in a country where, like Argentina, your money was worthless from one day to the next. And moving money around is very complicated. And you got family overseas, you know, that are working. Oh, you’re not one of those people. You are so blessed and fortunate that you don’t even realize how lucky you are. There’s billions of people on the planet that don’t have those basic things. And so it’s not really for you.
15:12 You know, for those people like me, you know, we’re innovators, we’re pioneers, we’re building the systems of the future, we’re bringing the change to the world that we want to see. And, or you’re a speculator. So keep doing what you’re doing. You know, one day, you may agree with us, based upon progress and events in the world. But in the meantime, you do you be happy. Keep living, enjoy your meal. And they’re always like,
15:40 Brian Rose: So these days, different people are seeing their own utilities in that asset.
15:45 Brock Pierce: Yeah, and there’s very different ones. Yeah. And so the early people were, you know, people that, you know, trust in our institutions is eroding, generally. Yeah, trust across all institutions. People are having a hard time like who you believe anymore, like trust in media, trust in government, trust in finance, trust in money, trust in the trust.
16:08 In general is, you know, eroding in the institutions that uphold and hold our world together and intact. Which means in your own life, there’s never been a more important time to operate with integrity and to be trustworthy to the best of your ability. That is really the main thing that is going to separate everything, you know, and what the world is ultimately seeking is we need trust. And we need those people of high moral character and principles that know what they stand for and hold it to the best of their abilities. And if they make a mistake, which we all do, you know, take accountability and are responsible and clean it up as best they can and get back up again and move forward.
16:57 But this is, I’d say at the core, what those problems are. And, you know, depending upon how you’ve been hurt in your life, you know, is the thing that you’re going to see most likely that’s going to motivate you to get here. And if you think about, you know, when people start to lose trust in, call it money, depending upon where you’re from, you know, are you in an emerging market, you know, where what was the thing that led you here? You know, we look at the what was historically the most kind of common store of value was precious metals like gold. And this is a really interesting one. It’s in a lot of ways that Bitcoin to be specific is kind of like gold 2.0. And except for its intangible, which most gold people would say is a reason why this isn’t interesting because I can’t touch it.
17:50 You know, which a lot of things you can’t touch anymore. And just because it’s intangible doesn’t make it less valuable. I would argue that intangibility is a positive feature. Because it’s easier to you can move it from anywhere to anywhere, nearly instantaneously. I’d say that gives it greater mobility. And that mobility is a is a positive feature.
18:12 That makes it harder to take it away. I mean, think about like the original sort of banking systems like the Knights Templar roads. I mean, these were because it was safe for to travel if you didn’t carry your gold with you. And so that was a positive feature. You can’t counterfeit it.
18:31 That’s a pretty positive feature. It’s instantly malleable all the things that made gold. It’s an interesting, you know, call it store of value alternative asset class at during times of financial uncertainty. And, you know, when a family office wants to have a serious conversation beyond, you know, people buying $20 or $100. Yeah, I would usually say 1% asset allocation as a hedge.
18:59 Seems prudent. If you lose it all, you’re okay. And if the world, you know, I hope for the best plan for the worst. And if, you know, something terrible happens. You might be very happy having that very small asset allocation. And beyond that, you should really know what you’re doing. Because there are real risks, as we’ve read about time and time again.
19:27 And that is people in my industry, our industry, that have been bad actors. But bad actors show up in all industries and emerging industries, right? You have an asymmetry of information. It attracts some of the brightest, but also some of the worst. Some with bad intentions, some with good intentions that just don’t have the qualifications or the skills or the experience.
19:48 And we’ve, you know, we’ve had plenty of them, whether it be the FTXs, the Terra Lunas, I mean, and then a whole long list, laundry list, embarrassingly long list of, you know, that. And so there are a bunch of risks that you need to familiarize yourself with, which is, you know, who’s holding your stuff. One of the things you’d look up if you’re really curious is not your keys, not your coins. I mean, ultimately, you need to get to a point that you understand self custody if you really want to be prepared, you know, for call it worst case scenarios.
20:27 But in the interim, there’s everything in between. It’s a journey of learning. And as I like to say, step one is go buy, you know, your first orange pill. You know, it’s a cup of Starbucks, $20 on Bitcoin, and you’ll learn a lot, right? It’s better than watching me talk or reading up, just go buy 10 or $20 worth.
20:48 And you’re going to learn like days, weeks or months worth of learning in minutes. It’s the best way to learn. Yeah, for sure. By doing it’s like, imagine if we were going back into the 90s and talking about email for the first time. And why email is, you know, gonna be better than postage stamps and envelopes and, you know, if you went and downloaded an email browser and like actually sent your first email to another friend on the internet, like, you’d be like, ah, I get it.
21:17 That’s pretty amazing. And it’s fast and cost nothing. It’d be a similar sort of experience, you know, that would open up your mind to innovation and, you know, how the world will keep changing and hopefully improving, you know, with each of these things.
21:36 Brian Rose: Where are we now, would you say? I mean, Bitcoin is now, you know, 2X away from its all-time high. And you alluded to some of the challenges that happened last year.
21:48 I mean, you’ve been watching and in this market from the beginning and even before this market existed. Where would you say we’re at right now? I mean, we kind of made it through some of these struggles of 22. Again, you classically say, bull markets create bullshit, bear markets bear fruit. You also say that you look around during bear markets and say, who’s here at this conference?
22:09 And it was interesting because we were both at Future Blockchain Summit and anybody there probably is building. They probably have a long-term vision. They probably want to really create some value in this system. So, yeah, what is kind of the State of the Union and what do you look for in this market as far as what’s developing?
22:26 Brock Pierce: Well, this is that moment that’s most exciting because we’re kind of between maybe that bear and bull period, you know, in these cycles, right?
22:34 And what’s great about the bear markets is it’s really hard and it separates, you know, the serious, you know, from the not so serious. You know, the men from the boys, you know, those that are here to really create change versus those that, you know, are looking for the quick buck. And so I like the bear markets. It’s smaller. It’s intimate. It’s those that truly are in it, usually for not maybe not all of them, but for a higher percentage for the right reasons.
23:08 Anytime we go into that bull market, you know, you get a bunch of, you know, the riff-raff show up and, you know, it’s nice when the tide goes back and, you know, you see who’s got a suit on. And like it gets rid of all the bad actors, you know, every time we go through one of these cycles. So we need that purging. We need that cleansing event. You know, the bull markets attract all the bullshit and the bear market kind of wipes out everybody that doesn’t belong and we go through these cycles.
23:40 And so, you know, this is the exciting period where everybody that’s still here, you’ve made it through another round, you survived another winter north of the wall to use a Game of Thrones analogy. And, you know, and now all of a sudden we get that period of abundance and growth and excitement. And then it usually leads to another cleanse. But these appear to be the cycles. And depending on what else happens in the world, that’ll determine where it goes.
24:12 I pray every day for peace. You know, I don’t, you know, I’m not against the old systems. You know, I want to see the old and the new wind together. You know, I support unity over division. And so I’m not like, you know, one of those people that is like down with it all.
24:34 Like, I guess I understand that what actually happens, the actual consequences. And so I try to be the best I can, a bridge to show us all, you know, a path forward, or we can all step into the future together. And so, you know, whether it be what’s going on with war, you know, maybe we find peace, you know, as we think about old monetary systems and debt and the challenges we face. How do we smoothly transition to better, more responsible systems that create trust and accountability, you know, and the appropriate incentives, you know, and how do we make that stride, that giant leap forward while minimizing chaos and suffering.
25:20 Yeah. Because the change is coming. It’s a constant. Yeah. Yeah. But can we, can we, how good we are and how well we’ve done is like, how, how smooth can we make it?
25:32 Brian Rose: Speaking of war, our mutual friend, Max Kaiser, who’s been an advocate of Bitcoin for Jesus 12 years or so. And I know you’ve known him for a long time. He was on our show 10 years ago. I think he once said that all wars are created by fiat systems. Do you believe that? Do you believe a future without fiat or with more transparency, blockchain, immutability could lead to less wars?
25:56 Because we’re right now looking at two hot wars right now on this planet, and both of them are pretty dire. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that?
26:07 Brock Pierce: Well, wars cost money. And wars historically were won by whoever had the best war chest. Yeah. And often debt, you know, back to the, the Iron Bank, to give us another Game of Thrones analogy, right?
26:21 Yeah, it’s a no question. If there were more restrictions on governments having access to money and being able to print money, we would have less war. It doesn’t mean war would go away. I mean, it doesn’t mean that people won’t fight and conflict won’t happen. But if they have less, if they have less financial firepower, or resources, obviously, there’d be a big impact. Right. In a way where we would see less of it, right? Now I don’t. So I think conceptually, he’s right. But then there’s the practical matters. If governments just lost access to money, what happens?
27:14 A lot of people that depend on government resources would find themselves in a very, very difficult situation where they might not be able to eat, might not be able to keep the heat on. And then you get French revolutionary events as well. So there’s, it, he is correct that yes, there, you know, that is one half of it. But on the other hand, what’s the other half of it? And back to what I said is, how do we find a path forward? Well, minimizing human suffering. How do we find the balanced, united, unified, you know, view of call it oneness to, to an optimal outcome. And I optimize my life, everything I do, to the highest timeline and outcome, what is the best pass possible path for all. I’m not on one side or the other. I truly walk, you know, that middle higher road to the best of my ability.
28:07 Brian Rose: And it feels like a tight rope.
28:09 Brock Pierce: No, I feel like feel like a circus performer.
28:12 Brian Rose: Johnny Cash said walk the lines of that is. I’m curious what you think might come in this next bullish cycle, because you’ve seen so many cycles and created a lot of companies along the way. And I’m, I’m getting flashbacks back to when I had Andreas Antonopoulos on the show and he came on in 2015, 2017, 2019. And he was always talking about the future of money and the internet of money. But at those times, I don’t know what the stable coin had actually been created. And so all of these pieces of technology were coming in the future that would completely change the way we would even consider money. You were involved with tether and still are. And that was again, an amazing innovation that that I don’t even remember see coming back in the day. I’m curious if you could speak on that. And what else do you think is coming coming forward? Is it emerging of this old world? And what do you think?
29:02 Is it emerging of this old world and new world? Is everything going to be on the blockchain? Is it going to decrease human suffering in very specific ways? I’m curious what you think.
29:16 Brock Pierce: Well, so first of all, technology, like, perhaps all things are amoral. They’re neither good or bad. Yes. Electricity can be used to heat your house, make you a warm blanket, or you can put a hat on someone’s head to electrocute them. Nuclear abundant energy, nuclear bombs.
29:38 They are inherently amoral. How we use it determines the impact it has, which is why we want conscious creators and leaders that build these systems that do it with clear intent and understand the line and how to use these tools to create positive outcomes. Right. For the greater good, let’s call it. And so yeah, back and by the way, both Max Kaiser and Andreas Antonopoulos, two of the greatest advocates, evangelists, public speakers that very early on were out there helping inform and educate the public.
30:19 And, you know, big fan of both of them and the wonderful work they did on behalf of the industry and I think that the world in bringing this knowledge to light. The stable coin. Yeah, it was first, my old partner Dan Larimer, to his credit, started a thing called BitShares and created a product called BitUSD. One of my other partners and I were I think the largest trader of the first conceptual stable coin. But like Terra Luna, we figured out very early on you could break the buck and break it kind of with ease and cause it to collapse.
30:57 There were some fundamental flaws with an algorithmic stable coin at the time. And so then the idea was, well, what about if we did an asset backed version? And so I started Tether and put the original team together. Craig Sellers was the CTO of Mastercoin with me where I was chairman, where we had that Mastercoin was the first ICO. And so created that ICO market in the summer of 2013, which changed capital formation where you no longer needed to be on Silicon Valley on Sandhill Road to raise money.
31:33 You could be an innovator from anywhere in the world, conceivably. This is right as the Jobs Act in the US and all these new regulations for crowdfunding are emerging. So pretty pioneering stuff. And so Craig, because we also built with Mastercoin, it was a layer to build on top of Bitcoin. If Bitcoin was, it’s like the web layer, the first conception of Web3, building applications on top of Bitcoin, other stuff we were building in the beginning.
32:02 And so Craig and I went to do that along with a friend of mine, Reeve Collins, who had had no experience in the industry. And we originally called it Rial, like the old Spanish Rial coin, and then it became a joint partnership with some of the principles of Bitfinex. And then it became Tether is how we started that. And this was late 2013, 2014, but nobody understood it then. No one could understand what we were building. Actually, almost every single person I was explaining to in the industry what I was starting and why I thought it was a terrible idea, because they were all Bitcoiners.
32:39 They’re like, why would I want US dollars? That’s why I’m in Bitcoin. I said, again, it’s not for you. Like I said earlier, when I was telling the people that didn’t believe in Bitcoin, like it’s not for you, I’m explaining to the Bitcoiners that it’s not really for you. This is for people that trade. You need an instrument that runs on the same infrastructure.
32:58 So if you want a long short, you can move out of Bitcoin into dollars into back of Bitcoin on an instrument that runs on the same technology. Or if you’re in the developing world, sorry, most people in Argentina aren’t looking for Bitcoin, they want dollars. If I can give them a digital dollar using the same technology and the same wallet, it’s probably going to be the most important instrument to onboard people to this technology. Meaning a digital dollar running on this system will probably do more for Bitcoin than anything else.
33:27 And they’re like, huh? I’m like, just wait, you know, it usually takes about five to seven years from when I start doing something for people to actually appreciate and understand what I’ve done. And then some figured out in the first couple of years, very few. But that’s part of being a pioneer. You know, my back is covered with arrows and you’re used to that lag. You’re used to people not getting it.
33:52 I feel like I’m operating at a different time. Right. And I’ve gotten familiar with that now. But it’s just I wait patiently, like, you know, in the DeLorean, waiting for everyone to catch up. But yeah, so stablecoins. Yeah, we pioneered that by being the first ones to do an asset back system and then started the first crypto bank to bank it.
34:18 And, you know, all the things needed, you know, like, OK, well, if we’re going to do this, we’ll need this and need that. And I just keep kind of running ahead to build whatever the next thing is necessary to help the industry advance.
34:31 Brian Rose: And what’s the state of the art of stablecoins right now? I know you recently spoke about how with the stablecoins, you’re able to kind of look at terrorist activity and be able to shut that down. And, you know, when people always that was always the narrative early on in crypto was that terrorists are using this and then they’re back from especially people like Max Kaiser were no, they use HSBC is what they use.
34:54 They use Fiat. And so there’s this this sometimes people they don’t actually think that this is happening through their banking system. What does the blockchain allow us to do when it comes to transparency and stopping accounts that are using these stablecoins versus Fiat? Is it a better instrument for that? Or is there a long way to go on that as well?
35:16 Brock Pierce: Bad actors exist and bad actors will be bad actors and they will use whatever system has the least amount of money.
35:23 Has the least amount of friction. So I was like PayPal’s largest merchant for years long before Bitcoin was instrumental in launching Ali pay in China before there was Bitcoin. And so payment systems and fraud, you know, on the front line of payment processing, you know, people would be like, how do we deal with this fraud on the Internet? And I go, well, I can stop all fraud. I can promise your company that you will not get one fraudulent transaction ever. They’re like, how do I do that?
35:52 I go, don’t ever take a payment. And that will ensure that you will never get a fraudulent transaction like, but I don’t want to do that. I go, well, now let’s talk about being practical and real. There’s going to be an acceptable amount of things that are going to happen because there is human behavior and that is what it is. And you don’t have to outrun the bear. You just have to outrun others when your system is harder to do bad things on than other systems.
36:21 They will always go to the path of least resistance. Generally, this is how incentive visitation works and how human behavior works. And so, yes, most people are going to use old banking systems, like you said, the Deutsche Bank’s and the HSBC’s to do bad things because it’s a lot easier and bad things happen. I don’t want to fault them either. I mean, they end up paying their fines, but it’s because this is what happens.
36:43 And, you know, cash is still generally used. And so, yes, there have been some instances of bad use here, but as a percentage basis, I think we are substantially lower on average than those other systems, which is how you have to measure it. And, you know, the tethers of the world and, you know, the finances have stepped up. And by the way, that’s one of the main arguments used by regulators and the opposition that supports the status quo. Let’s call it the incumbency, you know, those that want to see the world stay the way it is because they’re in control of that.
37:21 And this is the same story through every cycle. And so you have the status quo team, which is saying, no, don’t change anything. We like it just how it is. We’re good where we are. And then you can’t stop change. It’s coming always.
37:35 And it comes in cycles and waves with periods of innovation and time and stars and all stuff. And then you’ve got those that are like part of that. And it’s that healthy dialogue, right, of the status quo questioning the new kid on the block chain. And, you know, having to explain themselves and demonstrate their steward, their trustworthiness, their being-good stewards, right, to be safe custodians of our future. And, you know, there are aspects of the industry that would say, well, you should do absolutely nothing.
38:12 Well, you don’t understand again, back to practical reality. All right, terrorism is terrorism and nobody should be supporting that. And as an industry, if you don’t do what you can as a steward, as a leader, and at least do something, you cause great harm to our collective future. And so that is the reality. And this is where those that are responsible in positions of authority have to be good actors.
38:39 And so I’m proud of how we handled that. And, you know, they can say what they want to say, call it on the incumbency team. But the industry is doing better than the old system in terms of how it’s currently being used factually, measurably. And when bad things have happened, acting responsibly, at least some of the organizations and the ones that are still in a position of importance.
39:07 Brian Rose: When I see Stablecoin, I next go to a CBDC. And this is something everyone’s talking about. Maybe people understand and maybe they don’t.
39:17 I had Chris Giancarlo in the studio who used to run the CFTC, which is the second largest regulator in America, but very different from the SEC because of their charters and their missions. The CFTC actually, Quantities Futures Trading Commission, tries to really look for instruments that help and create liquidity that help institutions. Whereas the SEC was probably created on the back of, you know, the crash in 29 and they’re always looking to protect the consumer.
39:45 But Chris has something called the Digital Dollar Initiative, and he thinks this is one of our most important fights ever to try to keep the US dollar free, you know, and really abiding by all the great things from the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And he looks at the digital yuan and from what they’ve seen early on, it is probably maybe as dark as you might think it is with the censorship and linked to social scores. You know, USDC is another stable coin that’s very close to the government. Since you’re in the stable coin business, what are your thoughts on CBDCs and American ones and the one around the world, things we need to be concerned about? Are you concerned about?
40:25 And as citizens, is there much we can do? I know what they typically do is try to incentivize you with these digital currencies for extra speed and get you to adopt. And before you know it, you might be using something that can be, as again, censored, etc. So what are your thoughts there?
40:44 Brock Pierce: I am concerned.
40:45 Big amongst my students, they’re always asking this. I am concerned. I said earlier that these things are amoral. How we use them matters. What China has done is one version of how these systems can be used, which I’m an American.
41:05 And I believe in like what the, you know, that CFTC person’s position is, which is I support freedom. I support life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and the principles upon which the United States was founded. And so I’m on that team.
41:28 Brian Rose: Me too.
41:29 Brock Pierce: And so I’m deeply concerned about those that would like to use this technology as a tool to eliminate freedom and privacy and those principles.
41:43 And so I believe in support in America, a United States of America that continues to be that symbol of hope, that symbol of freedom, the thing that made the United States what it is and continuing to support that type of initiative. And so I’m, you know, right there and deeply concerned, you know, if this is a tool that the US uses to do similar things to what others like the Chinese have done would be, I think, a terrible outcome for all of us. And I spent a lot of time on Capitol Hill. I spent a lot of time talking to regulators. I spent a lot of time talking to legislators.
42:24 And there are plenty of Americans in a position of authority that agree with us. It’s not going to just get done despite, you know, efforts through the Federal Reserve. And otherwise, there’s efforts being made and there are also real efforts being made to prevent. And it’s, thank God, I think that thank those people that are in a position of authority for listening and learning and realizing how important this is before it’s too late, before a decision was made that can’t be reversed.
42:59 And so it’s a hot topic and a real topic and, you know, as the future is going to happen to you, or it’s going to happen with you. And to the extent that you have a say in it, certainly for any American, this should be an issue that you vote on. Like I think of myself as I’m on the one side. I don’t believe in the divided nation. I don’t believe in division. I don’t believe that I should be voting on a color red or blue and blindly follow a team like it’s a sports team without thinking.
43:35 You know, I think that there are issues that really matter and you need to find people that agree with you on issues. And for a lot of Americans, this is a single issue voter block and it’s not an insignificant block anymore. You know, this is a community of people that have a real voice and can affect election outcomes. And I think we’re going to see that in the upcoming election next year, 2024. And so I think it’s a huge deal. And I think that, you know, on that same note of future, I like to talk about currency, right?
44:08 What is money? Money is a form of stored energy or energy. As Bruce Lee would say, it wishes to flow like water because it’s a current. See? We’re just meant to be conductors of it, directing that energy to the things we wish to see change and impacted by being mindful while being conscious of how we use our power and what we give our power to. Every time we transact, and I don’t just mean financially, even with our attention, what we pay attention to is giving power to something or to someone and their platform and their positions.
44:53 And so be mindful of what information you allow in and where you give your attention to. And with your wallet, every time you transact, you are giving power to a company, to a group of people, to a project. Be as mindful and conscious of where you give your power to. You know, that’s what will determine what thrives in the future and what goes away in the future. You know, industries ultimately have to go where we direct them if we’re mindful. If enough people say, this is the future I want to live in, that will be the future.
45:32 That is how the future is created. It is a consensus reality co-creation. So be a conscious co-creator and have an opinion because the future is going to happen to you or with you. And there are plenty of people that will create a future for you that is perhaps not the one you want to live in, that might be that dystopian future that you don’t want. So please, we need you.
45:58 We need all the help we can get. We need everyone participating in this process to the extent that you choose.
46:04 Brian Rose: Yeah, I really love that concept. It’s so true. Money is energy and it flows and attention is as well. And each one of us can make those decisions and be a co-creator in our future, especially once you know that information.
46:17 I hope this voter block becomes more educated and becomes bigger because if you look at, say, Patriot Act, it kind of was ushered in after 9-11 and I was in New York for that and it was a challenging time. But, you know, we saw when government gets power and control, we saw that really abused by the CIA and it was not in the spirit of the founding of America. And so what governments tend to do is they kind of like to have that control and it’s hard to get it back away from them.
46:44 And so this is an important fight, maybe the most important fight, because I had a conversation with Dan Held, the old school Bitcoiner, and we fought hard for freedom of speech in 2020 and digital freedom of speech. But Dan said quite accurately to me, he said, Brian, freedom of speech is a luxury if you don’t have financial freedom. If you can’t put food in your mouth, if you can’t do these basics, then that becomes actually a secondary issue. And so this is an important point. And I hope we create a free currency, a digital version of, and I think it’s really important.
47:20 You mentioned elections. And again, you can talk, speak on elections differently than others because you’ve run for president and you did in 2020. But we’ve got an election, as you said, next year, about 12 months out. It’s coming very fast. But you had people like Ron DeSantis saying, I would ban a CBDC in Florida.
47:38 There were arguments that maybe that’s not possible, but at least there were conversations being happening. They’ve said that, you know, that all candidates probably have to have a crypto stance because voters now, they really will vote on that. I think it’s 35 percent plus of Americans own some type of crypto asset. So, yeah, how do you see all of this playing out with the election next year? And what are some of the issues that are on your mind?
48:02 I know we both know Bobby Kennedy as well, and he is this independent candidate, which you were and I was when I ran for mayor of London, which, of course, they never win until they do. Thank you, Jesse Ventura, who’s also been on the show. What are your thoughts on the upcoming election, how it relates to crypto and how it relates to just humanity, Americans, the world?
48:28 Brock Pierce: If you’re in a position that you get to choose your leadership, please exercise your civic responsibility, duty and the incredible privilege and gift that people died to give you.
48:41 It’s an incredible honor and it matters. Yeah, this election cycle, fortunately, we’re a big constituency. It’s not the only constituency. There are many issues that matter right now, our view, depending upon, again, where you operate from, our views on the environment and nature. You should understand who shares those views and who really has real ideas of how to address these issues, real progress, not progressive, but what represents real change, the change you want to see, the world you want to live in.
49:20 If it’s crypto and financial freedom and these sorts of things, yeah, you should make sure that you’re voting for people that are aligned with your principles and your views, not their parties. Principles, not parties. Policies, not parties. It’s easy to get tricked. Know what you care about and find the candidates.
49:47 Don’t look at what jersey color they wear. That’s where we need to be doing a better job and there’s plenty of people that are going to extract that information, make them tell you where they stand and vote on that basis. And whether it’s mental health, consciousness, psychedelics are another huge thing that we’re seeing in the epidemic of PTSD and mental health issues in the world, depression and otherwise, how are we dealing with that? You know, there’s a lot of big things, like, and this stuff matters, war, right?
50:19 Like, if ever there was a moment to be paying attention, you know, making your voice heard, speaking your truth, you know, we’re still giving people the space to speak theirs with dignity and respect, like grace. It matters. It matters. Typically, your two main candidates are going to attack each other and avoid most of the subjects we just talked about. Actually, you might have the same policies, two wings of the same bird in some ways to distract you from the truth.
51:12 And all those other candidates that are actually really representing change. You know, in America, we have a sleeping giant that’s never been woken. It’s the youth. A majority of eligible voters are young and they don’t vote.
51:33 Brian Rose: Maybe you can wake the sleeping giant.
51:36 Brock Pierce: You know, that changes everything. If the young people that don’t vote because they look at our political system, they’re going, I want nothing to do with that. If they realize they have the power to change it all and actually showed up, we could live in a different world sooner than you think. Why it’s so important to tune in, pay attention and act according to your conscience.
52:11 Brian Rose: Powerful statement.
52:13 Brock Pierce: Imagine if just a fraction of the youth tuned in. It doesn’t take much to move an election these days. I mean, it’s one percent, right? I’m actively in it all. I’ve been studying. It’s easier than you think.
52:27 And everyone’s like, no, you could never change anything there. And I’m like, that’s what you’d think. And back to it, it’s not government. It’s not corporations. They’re all doing what they’re meant to do.
52:44 You know, governments keep seeking more power because they’re acting in their own interest. And it’s not an individual, don’t hate the player, hate the game sort of thing. You shouldn’t hate anything. But anyway, act from love. It’s key to everything. Love is the key. Love is the answer. That’s another topic.
53:00 Systems are systems. And that’s where individually it’s so important that you’re checking yourself. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. You’ve got to constantly be, what are my values? What are my principles?
53:12 What is my mission statement? What am I here? And hold firm to those things. Corporations, same thing. Can you really be mad at a corporation?
53:23 When it’s written, it’s created specifically to create value for its shareholders. So of course it’s going to do the things it does because that’s how the system was designed. If you want to see a different world, you have to change the incentives. Like if we want to leave a world of fear and scarcity behind, and if we want to move into a world of abundance, you have to change your mindset. You have to actually believe in a world of abundance.
53:54 You have to believe in love over fear. You have to actually embody those things. And then change with that the incentives. That’s what we’re in, is this division and duality. And there is a way to rise above all of that, which is to change your mentality and to act and live and embody that other way of being, which is forgiving yourself, loving yourself.
54:33 It starts with you. Peace on earth comes from inner peace. Be the change you want to see in the world, and then having that compassion and forgiveness for others as they’re going through their own personal struggle. And then all the other things, the companies and the governments, and everybody’s just been acting out their incentives and their story. And we have it at an individual level to change, and we have it at a community level to change.
55:06 We have it at a governmental level to change, at a company level to change. We have the ability to change.
55:13 Brian Rose: We touched on this a little bit when we were on stage. You know, it’s easy in this industry to point the finger at the legacy system and say it’s got to go. It’s easy in politics to say that the people in Washington have to go drain the swamp.
55:29 It’s easy to point the fingers at the corporations, but like you said, they’re all just acting in their own self-interest. How do you get people to really listen to the message that it all starts with the individual change, with your own consciousness, with loving yourself, with holding yourself accountable to a higher standard? I mean, that is the answer to all of these problems.
55:53 Brock Pierce: Well, that’s all you really have power over at the end of the day too, right?
55:58 So, is yourself. Be the change you want to see. Take a look in the mirror. He without sin cast the first stone, right? Forgive them for they know not what they do.
56:12 And, you know, that’s like kind of the story. It’s ultimately a redemption story, right? It’s, you know, start with yourself. And, you know, it’s easy to like, you know, be attacking and criticizing others. But, you know, take a look inward, take a look in the mirror, and work on yourself, right?
56:38 And it’s okay. I mean, we should be paying attention to others for all the reasons we’ve said. But, you know, there’s a positive way to do it. And it’s positive reinforcement at the end of the day. You know, we can talk about Pavlov’s bell and operant conditioning.
56:52 If you want to see positive change from someone, you reward their good behavior. You find the good in them. You find the silver lining. And you give praise, or pray you praise the things that you like, even in people you may dislike. And you’ll get more of that.
57:12 What you criticize and what you attack, we get more of. It’s back to that mindfulness. You know, it’s how it works. And so, be mindful again of what you’re doing and your words. And as you become mindful, you can start to change these things.
57:38 You know, talk about what you want. Praise the things you like. You know, it’s back to positive mindset, positive actions, positive words, positive actions. And then we get a positive world. If you think negatively, act negatively, speak negatively, we keep descending into a lower frequency and vibration.
58:09 A hell of sorts. You know, if we operate with heavenly thoughts, positive thoughts, good things, we rise together as one. And it’s as simple as I can explain it. And so we know that to be true.
58:26 Brian Rose: And now we’re staring down the barrel of a presidential election where there’s going to be a lot of low-level vibrations going on.
58:37 We’re staring at two very scary wars in the world. We’re looking at all sorts of problems. We’ve got, you know, artificial intelligence coming up, and I want to get your thoughts on that. We’ve got our social networks that feed back our own beliefs and also put us in an echo chamber of emotionally charged situations. All this stuff is almost doing the opposite of what you said.
59:04 How do we deal with all of that stuff? Or what you’ll read on the next 12 months of how we kind of negotiate through maybe the more challenging year that we’ve had.
59:17 Brock Pierce: Most of the things I already said is the key. And staying firm in that. Don’t succumb to it.
59:24 Don’t let it drag you down. You know, hold firm, stand strong, you know, and know that you’re here for a reason and every single one of you matter. Everyone matters. Every single being is here for a reason and has the great potential to be part of that positive change. And if ever there was a moment to be strong, it’s now for yourself, for your families, for the future, for everything good for all life.
59:58 And so that’s really the key to it all and then show up. And that’s how we win. That’s how we get that world that can work for everyone. That’s how we get peace on earth. That’s how these things stop is, you know, by, you know, there’s a lot of basic messages in what I’ve said and what we’re talking about.
1:00:21 And yeah, you know, and get involved. You know, go what you’re calling, get involved. Artificial intelligence is an incredible tool that can do great things for us. Is it amoral? Yes.
1:00:38 Well, it depends on who makes it. Who wrote it? What’s the reasons? How’s it being managed? How’s it being governed?
1:00:45 You know, and then it kind of goes. And, you know, I mean, artificial intelligence and robotics, you know, you know, can create a world where right now I live to work or serve. That is my purpose. I get up every day and I love, I live to do for the greater good for all of you, you know, but there are a lot of people that still get up and work to live or survive. You know, these innovations in 20 years could bring us to a point where no one has to do that anymore.
1:01:29 Because like a lot of these positive things I’m talking about, yeah, but you’re not having to get up every day to make ends meet to put food on the table. That’s true. I’m very blessed that I have the luxury to think philosophically and to act accordingly. And that’s one of those things that is one of the great potential outcomes of all of this. And let’s work towards that.
1:02:01 And so, you know, it’s amoral. And I hope that, you know, the systems that are being built are built from the right heart space, you know, with the right intention. And the information that’s being programmed into it is showing the best of humanity. Because I believe that we’re inherently good. Me too.
1:02:23 I believe in us. I’m such a believer in humanity. I believe in us. I believe that it’s that fear and scarcity mindset that creates the slippery slope, you know, that I got to do this for me. And so, I’m just going to do this little bad thing to, you know, because I got to.
1:02:41 Which leads to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing. But I believe we’re inherently, it is human nature that when someone’s about to be harmed, it’s our reflex usually to help. Our natural state, our reflex is to do the right thing. And when we do otherwise, we feel it. Sometimes we become numb to it, because we may have repeatedly not listened to that intuition, not listened to our gut, you know.
1:03:15 And you can do that, you know. It feels much better to, like, do what is in the best interest of, call it, you know, our human family. And so, there’s all sorts of stuff, but these are big things. You know, there’s all sorts of huge things. Get involved.
1:03:34 I mean, right now, I know you know Dave Asprey. Dave and I are working on longevity, you know, challenges. I mean, that’s another huge thing. Population decline, you know, families need to be producing. The public numbers are at 2.1 children per household.
1:03:54 I think we’re at 1.2 or something. Like Japan, the one China policy child and these things. What are we going to do? You know, how do we help people live longer, live healthier, and to be, you know, productive, you know, co-contributors? You know, the list is long.
1:04:13 You know, if you haven’t figured out, you know, a good reason to be. And to be happy, right? I believe you can do good while doing well and having fun. That’s actually when you’re living your purpose, what it’s like. It all feels like play.
1:04:31 Doing well, doing good, having fun. Yeah. We all can be doing that. Yeah, and that’s how everybody gets involved. Because we’re so different than that other thing that, like, how can you not want…
1:04:45 The invitation is open to everyone. Everyone’s welcome. You know, this should feel like a celebration. You know, a bun dance, right? You have to dance your buns off.
1:04:58 Get out. Go to that music festival. Listen to that great music and jam. Like, you know, that’s how we’d like this sort of change to occur. Like, it’s an art revolution.
1:05:09 It’s a love revolution. It’s like, you just make it so good that everybody wants to come along. And just say no to the alternative reality of doom and gloom. You know? And it’s like the lion’s last roar.
1:05:26 That’s what this is leading to. And so these AI technologies could just empower that more. Or… Give people the freedom. Yeah, give people the freedom.
1:05:35 Or if controlled by the wrong people, it could magnify that scarcity mindset and that low energy vibration and take us down somewhere dark. So these are…
1:05:43 Brian Rose: Is it our single most important? Is it an existential threat? Is it one of the more important things that we try to…
1:05:49 Brock Pierce: It’s one of the most important, yeah. I’d say war right now is… You know, World War III is probably the biggest issue, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
1:06:00 Because that’s the one that can create the biggest change the fastest. The AI is not… It’s a pretty near term issue as well. Our systems of governance, our freedom, you know. There’s a lot of things.
1:06:15 Not everybody has to work on all of them. You know, find the one that, you know, you care about most. And there’s a lot of ways to contribute. You know, just by showing up and paying attention. Like, and every little thing, you know, creates a ripple.
1:06:33 Like, as small as you… Like, I’m an honorary nurse at a important hospital when I was there with this nurse. And she’s like, wow, I’m working in the cardiology department. And she’s like, well, I’m just a little nurse. You know, what an honor it is.
1:06:52 I’m like, what do you mean you’re small? You’re not small. You’re a nurse in a hospital working in the cardiology department, open heart surgeries. Every person that comes to this hospital and leaves feeling better because of you, you’ve impacted their life positively. And then they act differently and impact the lives of others.
1:07:15 Every life you save, every good thing that person does for the rest of their life, you had a hand in it. You can’t even measure the impact and the importance of your life. It’s ginormous. Don’t ever think of yourself as being small again.
1:07:40 Brian Rose: Where did Brock get all this knowledge?
1:07:44 You didn’t have it when you were a child actor in LA, Mighty Ducks 2. You probably didn’t have it when you were doing these crazy startups through the decades. Maybe you did. What did you get to where you kind of figured it out, or at least you could see humanity and the world for what it is and what it needs?
1:08:12 Brock Pierce: Well, to what extent I figured anything out, from learning, being curious, by striving courageously, you know, and reinventing myself repeatedly, having lived many lives in one life, and, you know, and caring, being empathetic.
1:08:33 I mean, there’s a lot of things that have contributed to the me being me, having an open mind, and all of those things have led to this, and it’s been a process. I mean, the core of who I am was always there, and staying true to it, and finding my way back to my best path, even if I stumble or I fall off course a little bit, and that continual learning of our own, continual sort of call it rebirth, our own, all the things we discussed, and everything you hear me say is a reflection of my own journey. In choosing to be the best version of myself I can be, knowing that my actions have an impact, the immeasurable impact, and all the ripples, and to be as responsible as I can with that knowing.
1:09:43 You know, back to like the Matrix, ignorance is bliss. I know too much, and I refuse to be ignorant. I refuse. I choose to do the best I can, and I strive to be even better tomorrow. Every day is a new day, and an opportunity to give thanks for the gift of life, and the ability to make an impact in the world with whatever time we have, with whatever resources, whatever experience, because we can, and we will.
1:10:31 Brian Rose: You use the word conscious a lot, and it’s part of our mission statement on the wall, and I know you’re involved with Mystic Ventures that invest in a lot of things that help us become more conscious, and that can be anything. That could be a meditation, or a physical practice, or a psychedelic practice. What are some of the things that you think will help us become more conscious, including the things I just mentioned, things like psychedelics and those types of things.
1:10:58 I know we both had Ayahuasca experiences. Yeah, and how those helped you over the years, because they’ve helped me tremendously, just get a perspective on who I was, and who I wanted to be. Because like you said, sometimes when you push through those feelings that are saying, I don’t want to do that, or I shouldn’t do that, enough times you end on this autopilot mode where you become a human you don’t want to be, and you’re doing things you don’t really want to do.
1:11:24 Sometimes it’s hard to break out of that cycle.
1:11:28 Brock Pierce: Yeah, you got to pause. Yeah. You have to go through the uncomfortable process of disturbing yourself, and breaking out of the comfortable situation that you’re in. And that is to stop and make time, whether that be to learn to meditate, to reflect any of the many things.
1:11:53 There are medicines, ancient medicines, that have been used as another tool, as you mentioned, whether it be your psilocybin, the mushrooms, and these things have been used around the world for thousands of years. I mean, they’re not new tools. And we’ve learned that some things that some people might call drugs, others might call medicine, and some things that some people call medicine, you might call drugs. What I’m about to say is not a literal definition, but my sort of analysis is a medicine to me is something that actually makes you better.
1:12:33 A drug is something that gives you temporary relief or might cure you of something that’s needed, chemical warfare of sorts. And so there’s all of that with a giant mental health crisis that’s very real, a military of veterans that feel like they’ve been abandoned with their post-traumatic stress and great work by Rick Doblin and MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies, and what they’ve figured out with MDMA. It’s working. And actually fixing problems that plague us.
1:13:16 And so that’s not necessarily something everybody has to do. There’s incredible things going on with virtual reality and sound and frequencies. So there’s a lot of ways. But the first thing is to be curious enough to go pursue any one of these things. And to each person based upon your background and your journey, one of those things will call to you more than another.
1:13:41 And so there’s no one path. It’s all like there’s many ways up the mountain.
1:13:47 Brian Rose: It feels like we just started talking about Bitcoin again. It’s all related, isn’t it?
1:13:54 Brock Pierce: It’s all related.
1:13:55 It’s all the same journey of your own learning, accepting yourself, growing, forgiving yourself, others, love, fear, curiosity, find new things, strive to improve. And there are many ways to do it. I encourage you to get involved. It’s exciting. Have fun with it.
1:14:21 And surround yourself with the best people you can.
1:14:24 Brian Rose: And so what’s next for Brock Pierce? I asked you at the conference what happens in 10 years and we’ll get to that. But like, what are you doing in these next year when it comes to all things? I know you’re a very busy guy.
1:14:38 You’ve got lots of projects. Longevity One with Dave Asprey, our friend. You’re obviously heavily still involved with blockchain companies. I’m guessing you’re going to be doing something in the presidential election. And you got all sorts of other projects you’re working on.
1:14:53 What’s next for you and why?
1:14:55 Brock Pierce: Well, I mean, the next year is going to be a very important one. You know, obviously with the U.S. elections. So the next 12 months, that’s going to be a huge focus along with all my responsibilities.
1:15:07 Brian Rose: And why? Because it matters. And in 2020, that was a learning experience for you. You learned so much by running in 2020. And that knowledge has helped you and will help you on this cycle.
1:15:18 Brock Pierce: Oh, yeah. I ran for president of the United States of America as a reconnaissance mission. I announced on July 4th, American Independence Day, of election year. There’s no way to win. I spent like $7 million of my own money to learn all the ways in which the system was rigged, to prevent, you know, people like me from making the impact that I see possible.
1:15:54 And I have not slowed down. I’m not stopped. I’ve been very involved. I mean, I work in the United Nations. I have my own organization.
1:16:04 And I work with governments around the world, domestic elections, legislation. You know, I just say my reconnaissance has gone way beyond reconnaissance. And it’s, you know, very impactful. Most people don’t see all of it because it’s just too hard to show everything. And not everything should be shown until it’s done.
1:16:24 Loose lips can sink ships. But I’m doing this for all. Every time I meet a Democrat, I meet a Republican. Every time I give money to a Republican, I give money to a Democrat. And, you know, I’m personally an independent.
1:16:42 I don’t believe that, you know, there’s one perspective that is so much better than the other. I believe it’s more of a Venn diagram. And I believe that most of it overlaps. And if we start looking at our mostly overlapping common interest, the fact that we share this one planet, and we celebrate and honor each other’s diversity and support coexistence and, you know, all that sort of good stuff will be fine. And if we focus less on the little things that separate us, that divide us and more on what unites us and unifies us, we’ll be far better off.
1:17:18 And I think there’s, you know, real impact for change. I don’t believe it. I know it. I do it. I live it.
1:17:26 I see it. I cause it. And so that’s why I do it, because I know, as I said, I don’t have the ignorance. I have the knowing, and therefore I must. You know, if not us who, if not now when, like there’s our, this is our responsibility.
1:17:48 If we know.
1:17:49 Brian Rose: And so for the election, what are you going to be doing, or what can you tell us?
1:17:56 Brock Pierce: I mean, everything I can. We’ll see what happens here. I mean, there’s obviously a big thing.
1:18:03 Bobby Kennedy, RFK Junior, just recently switched from running as a Democrat to running as an independent, which is my preferred lane. Because I think that’s the united lane. It’s not against. I’m not against people I’m for. Back to the mentality.
1:18:24 Stop voting against. Stop being against. And act for the thing that you want. Not against the thing you don’t, but for what you want. And as you move forward, then we get the progress, the real progress.
1:18:44 And so I think that the independence is important. It’s been 250 years or so since America’s founding. It feels like we’re in those cycles. If ever there was a moment, there’d be a big change. I think we’re in it.
1:19:04 And if ever there was, and you need these difficulty times. The good news about all the challenges we face is it gives us the motivation to do something. Without all the stuff we talked about, in terms of the negative things, you wouldn’t be motivated to do anything. The status quo wouldn’t change. So to see the positive in it is we need all this discomfort to get us comfortable changing.
1:19:31 And so when you see it from that perspective, you realize why it’s all good. Say thank you. Thank you. Thanks for making me pay attention to this. Yeah, because otherwise we wouldn’t.
1:19:41 Yeah, it’s true. You got to get uncomfortable to step into that change. An attitude is everything, as I like to say. Your attitude determines the altitude at which you fly. And an attitude of gratitude allows you to soar or fly high.
1:19:59 And so thank you every day for life to be born, to exist, to have an opportunity to show up and serve and make a difference in this world. I’m just so grateful, always, for all of it. And so from the election perspective, I’m going to do everything. And I can’t stop, won’t stop. It’s not in my nature.
1:20:17 Do everything. It means have conversations with everybody and then empower people that you see. Build bridges. Build bridges and empower people like Bobby that you see with great messages. Yeah, I know.
1:20:27 I’m just a translator, a bridge builder, carpenter, plumber, janitor. Whatever job is needed, I’ll be there. I’ve got no attachment really to my role. I am happy to play whatever part serves our collective winning, one for all and all for one.
1:20:58 Brian Rose: It’s been great to hear Bobby talk.
1:21:02 And I had him on the show in 2020 when we were talking about vaccines and things. And I was really struck by his intelligence and his character. But now to see him out there, it’s just like he’s like the politician I always wish I met with these big ideas. And again, he’s not one. He refuses to attack other people again.
1:21:23 And he kind of lives these values. And it’s a different kind of person. And I like the person that he is. And I like seeing that person that could be one of our leaders. I like the energy that he brings to this space.
1:21:35 It’s just a massive net positive. Well, that’s what you need. Yeah. Leaders that act like leaders. You know, great leaders win on the merit of their accomplishments and their ideas.
1:21:54 They don’t have to belittle or put others down, you know.
1:22:00 Brock Pierce: RFK, I mean, if you care about nature, there is probably no American involved that has done more, you know, for the environment.
1:22:13 Brian Rose: That’s an issue of yours.
1:22:16 Brock Pierce: If that’s a policy concern, he is hands down indisputably. You know, that’s it.
1:22:24 If you care about crypto, at least as of right now, you know, of the candidates that are polling, I think he’s polling at like, I think 22%, but I don’t want to, his polls are like statistics. Where are you measuring from? Data. But, you know, that’s there. Obviously, Vivek on the Republican side has also been out there and connecting and speaking in that area.
1:22:56 If that’s an issue you care about, there’s, you know, again, who, what policies matter to you. You know, I live in Puerto Rico. And here’s the thing that most people don’t know is, so I bought the W Hotel, the former W Hotel in Vieques. Bobby Kennedy went down and stopped the Navy. You know, he was one of, it’s not only him, but one of the people that went to stop the Navy from bombing, you know, this part of Puerto Rico.
1:23:24 Vieques, they locked him up in a maximum security prison for 36 days for basically telling the Navy, no, stop this. Less than 10,000 people live there in a place where they can’t vote in D.C. for president or Congress. That is someone that has given a voice to nature that has none. And the voiceless or with basically no voice in America with no political clout or value to be had in was imprisoned for it.
1:24:03 That’s some pretty powerful conviction, you know, as you think about character. And someone that is, walks the walk.
1:24:12 Brian Rose: You know, you’re not wrong in those things that you said. I notice and I see and it’s moving. It’s moving.
1:24:21 Yeah. And if you don’t like the military industrial complex, you know, Bobby could be your guy as well. If you don’t like the media pharmaceutical complex, Bobby also could be your guy. I mean, there’s a lot of things there if, you know, those things matter to you. Yeah.
1:24:38 Brock Pierce: I mean, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot there to look at. And I know him personally. You know, I spent time with, by the way, I know most of the players on all sides. And, you know, I haven’t formally taken any positions because I try to be as Switzerland as I can be to operate, you know, between all things. But, you know, I mean, I think we can agree on all those points and I encourage, like I said earlier, everyone to do their own research.
1:25:14 But I think that we’ve given you good data that you can verify independently. And some good cliff notes of policies and actions.
1:25:24 Brian Rose: Okay. And so elections this year, longevity you’re working on, tons of other businesses you’re working on. Consciousness, freedom, financial.
1:25:35 Brock Pierce: Yeah, I mean, I’ve got my, I’m all over. I literally, people like, because I don’t know how to describe what I do. People are like, what do you do? I’m like, everything. I can.
1:25:47 And tomorrow, it’ll be more.
1:25:49 Brian Rose: Right. Everything. I love that. And so I think I’ll ask you the question I asked you on stage.
1:25:55 So how does it all end? Because that’s important to know. Or where are we in 2033, 2043? Like, what happens? Ten years from now?
1:26:04 Brock Pierce: Yeah. I want to, I see a potential future where we’re living abundantly. Freely. Joyfully. Without all this division and harm and hurt and pain and suffering.
1:26:26 And that future depends on you. It’s possible. So let’s do that. Why not? It’s just that simple, isn’t it?
1:26:45 Why don’t we go do that? Right. We have it all within ourselves. Does anyone like it when we don’t do that? No.
1:26:53 Does anyone enjoy the wars and the stress and the famine and the bad mental health and the drug addictions? No. No one’s enjoying that. And yet we think that’s part of our reality. Doesn’t have to be.
1:27:05 Doesn’t have to be. Does it? If enough of us tune in. Yeah. And choose it.
1:27:10 And make it fun enough. And again, without all the judgment. Yeah. Invite everybody. Everybody’s invited.
1:27:19 We will get there. And it can be that soon. I believe it is possible within the next ten years. Wow. As long as it takes us to wake up.
1:27:31 Right. And how much suffering do we want to endure? Yeah. How painful do we make it? So there’s a quote I’ve been dwelling on from Nietzsche recently.
1:27:48 It’s probably because I’m supposed to maybe go go to an ayahuasca ceremony in December and take a look at my truth. But his expression is ultimately comes down to how much truth can you handle? As Jack Nicholson would say, and if you could then can you handle the truth? Right. Let that be a challenge for yourself.
1:28:08 Yeah. Have the courage. My favorite virtue. Be courageous. To find out and admit the truth about who you are.
1:28:17 And the truth hurts. And the truth hurts. Yeah. It’s painful. Medicine because the reality is, again, we’ve all made mistakes.
1:28:29 And we all have an opportunity to learn from them and to be freed of them. Not to have that guilt and that shame and to not carry it to be redeemed. But you have to go in. And when you finally like go say, I’m sorry to that person that you did that thing to and you try to fix it. All of a sudden, it feels so good.
1:28:58 And you’re like, why was I hiding that lie? Why was I holding onto that discomfort or dis-ease when my freedom and salvation was right there the whole time? We’re always so scared of going there. And when you go there, you realize it wasn’t that hard. What was I waiting for?
1:29:21 What was I waiting for? And that is the key. That’s what’s going to stop us from getting there, is everybody making that individual journey, going in, confronting that, and then realizing we’re all here. We’re all together. Every day is a gift.
1:29:39 And this future is something that’s very tangible. We just have to see it and believe it. And then so be it. And then so be it.
1:29:49 Brian Rose: Brock, I’ve been doing this for 12 years and what I found in the first few years, to my surprise, was at the end of my conversations with almost every guest, from a bodybuilder to an author to an activist to a boxer to everything guy, Bitcoin OG turned everything.
1:30:09 They all said at the end, we are all one. This was a message I wasn’t even ready to hear. But I started, I’m an engineer by training, I was like, there’s a lot of serious correlation going on here. We are one.
1:30:24 Brock Pierce: I know.
1:30:24 And we’re in this together. We’re going to win together. We’re going to lose together. So let’s all win. Yeah, always.
1:30:33 In all ways.
1:30:34 Brian Rose: Well, let’s do that. Brock, I really appreciate the time. I’m so glad we had this conversation. And let’s keep having these conversations.
1:30:44 And I encourage everybody just to think deeply about this because it’s right there waiting for us.
1:30:49 Brock Pierce: It is. All we got to do is take some action and make it happen. To be continued, let’s have more of these. Wishing you all the well and everything you’re doing.
1:30:57 Let me know how we can support. And I can’t wait till we meet up in 2033 and celebrate this brand new future.
1:31:04 Brian Rose: Yes, please. All right. Let’s do it.
1:31:06 All right.
