Full transcript: Brian Friedman on London Real
4:02 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Brian Friedman, the American dancer, choreographer, producer, and director. You’ve worked with stars like Michael Jackson, Britney Spears, Beyoncé, Mariah Carey, and in Hollywood movies like American Reunion and Charlie’s Angels. You’ve been a judge and choreographer for the TV show, so you think you can dance, and the producer for America’s Got Talent.
5:27 You’re currently the creative director of The X Factor, and from what I can tell, you’re the hardest-working man in showbiz. Brian, welcome to London Real.
5:35 Brian Friedman: Thanks for having me.
5:36 Brian Rose: You are coming from the studio off to another project. Your publicist is getting emails from you like 1 to 5 in the morning.
5:43 What’s a typical week for you like when you’re in the middle of X Factor?
5:48 Brian Friedman: Chaotic, I would say. It’s extremely chaotic. I can never tell where I’m going to be at any minute. Things come from one side that I didn’t expect.
5:58 I think I’m done with the show in one minute, and then all the songs change, and I have to create a new show overnight. So it’s definitely stressful, definitely hectic. It keeps me on my toes. It’s a challenge. I think that the more you have challenging things in life, the more you’re growing, and it gives you something to rise to.
6:17 So I like it. It’s stressful, though.
6:19 Brian Rose: But you seem calm in the storm.
6:21 Brian Friedman: I don’t know about that. Maybe I’m calm on the outside.
6:25 Inside I constantly have to talk myself off of the cliff. But it’s good. I do like the stress. I think I feed on stress. Other people crumble under stress and pressure, but I seem to rise to the occasion, I think.
6:39 Brian Rose: Was that true always when you were growing up and dancing, as well as when you were choreographing?
6:45 Brian Friedman: I think it’s always been true for me. I’ve just been driven as a child. I was very driven. I was always wanting to do more.
6:53 Thinking what’s next and being bored, doing the normal thing and playing with friends, it didn’t really seem right for me. So I think I have been chasing excitement and danger all my life.
7:03 Brian Rose: And for X Factor, what is the most stressful part? Are you multiple days? Is it the fact that people have to be ready on short notice and you have to cram so much knowledge into someone’s head who maybe isn’t used to doing that?
7:16 Brian Friedman: It’s a different stress every day. Every day is something new. There’s the stress of getting the contestants to be their best on the show and wanting them to have the knowledge that you have over years and trying to inject it in them in days and hours and minutes. That’s definitely stressful. On the other side, the creative side, it’s topping what you did the week before.
7:40 It’s coming up with better concepts, and now after 10 years or 10 seasons of doing this show in multiple countries, I feel like I’ve done everything I can creatively. So it’s a challenge to myself. I know that we’re going to deliver because that’s what we do, but it’s how can we do something new that the audience hasn’t seen before. So that’s definitely something stressful for me. The time crunch is stressful.
8:05 I have one day with my team and my assistants to put this whole show together. And then the people who are building all the sets, they have about a day to get those sets together. So it’s definitely the time crunch that’s stressful. You don’t have time to make a mistake. You don’t have time to go back and rework something.
8:23 It has to be done then and now. So it’s like dance triage. And then the dance side of things. That was all just on the creative side. On the dance side of things, my choreography team has one day to craft all of these numbers.
8:37 And it’s funny, going into the show that we’re doing this week, we started out having two and a half dance numbers. One of them was going to be really easy. And then some songs changed, and now we have five dance numbers. And the rehearsals on the dance day were finished when we found out about this. So we had to do dancer rehearsals in between while we’re teaching the contestants their numbers.
8:57 Basically doing it all on the spot. How would I say this? Faking it. Figuring it out. But then the day ended and I looked back on it.
9:08 And I loved the work that we created. And going into the day, if I hadn’t trusted that we could pull that off, I could have had a meltdown. So sometimes you get the best work out of the chaos. And it’s hard to accept that. And it’s hard for maybe the rest of my team to understand that.
9:24 Because maybe they haven’t tested themselves to that limit. I’ve got a full new team this year. So it’s putting them through boot camp as well. They’ve got a challenge.
9:34 Brian Rose: And you’re known as a perfectionist?
9:36 Yeah. Which is almost impossible on a show where you have to deliver with these kind of deadlines. This isn’t like a music video where you can really practice and get this down. I mean, by definition it’s imperfect, right?
9:48 Brian Friedman: And yeah, it has to be imperfect.
9:50 You have to accept the fact that there are going to be flaws. And that the audience doesn’t necessarily know what your vision was in the beginning. They’re seeing a finished product. And to me, I’m probably the only person in there. Maybe a couple other people who know what the real vision was supposed to be.
10:09 Because I’m a perfectionist, I try to not let myself be let down when the show goes on. I try to look at the positive and see it through an outsider’s eyes. And I think that we pull off an amazing spectacle. But of course, I am a perfectionist. So I look back and see the things that I wish would have happened and could have happened.
10:28 And obviously budget is an issue. We don’t have all the money in the world to throw out the show. And in a perfect world, we would be spending thousands and thousands on each contestant’s performance. Like you do when it’s an award show. But we have to make this budget spread across to all of them.
10:45 That’s a challenge in and of itself.
10:47 Brian Rose: And when you watch, do you watch that final episode? Do you try to tell yourself, okay, we’re going to watch this and not try to be too critical on yourself?
10:57 Brian Friedman: I don’t watch the show. I don’t watch it back, I should say.
11:01 I watch the show live, I’m in the audience, and I love the energy. I feed off of the energy of the fans and the studio audience screaming for the contestants. Because that’s what matters ultimately. It matters how it’s received in the house and how the judges receive it. I mean, they are the ones who are critiquing the contestants and, in a way, the performances.
11:22 If they don’t think the performance is spectacular, that does fall on me a bit. So I look over to see if the judges are happy. If they’re happy, if the audience is cheering, then I feel like we’ve done our job. If the contestant finishes their performance and feels like a superstar, then I really know we did our job.
11:37 Brian Rose: Right, and the audience can feel that, too.
11:39 Brian Friedman: Oh, yeah. And you know when it doesn’t hit. You know when you have a failing moment. When you’re sitting there in the audience and they’re not making any noise, and then the judges slam back at the performance, that means that we couldn’t necessarily bring that contestant up, have them rise to the occasion, or, in some cases, mask the fact that it’s not really the best song for them. Sometimes it’s our job to give a little bit of smoke and mirrors and make it a show, even when it’s not necessarily the strongest performer performing the best song.
12:11 Brian Rose: Okay, and sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn’t.
12:14 Brian Friedman: Sometimes it works. I mean, not saying any names, but through the years, we’ve had contestants that maybe, you know, you think there’s a lot of potential there and they get put on the show hoping that they’ll rise, and then they just sort of flatline. So it’s our job to make it entertaining. No one wants to tune in and have 20%, 30% of the show that’s just kind of okay and mediocre.
12:37 So I feel like that’s when we, as a creative team, have to really step up.
12:40 Brian Rose: It doesn’t lie, the judges don’t lie.
12:42 Brian Friedman: Pretty much that is the feeling.
12:44 Brian Rose: So you won’t watch it, record it back, you’ll actually be there in the audience, you’ll see it, but you’ll feel.
12:49 Brian Friedman: I mean, you can’t change it. That’s the thing.
12:51 And you’ve got to move on the next week. You have to move on, and there’s no reason to look back.
12:56 Brian Rose: So the musical or something, you can tweak it.
12:58 Brian Friedman: It’s over. It’s over. You get one shot.
13:00 And that’s what the contestants have to realize, that’s what we all have to realize. You have one shot, do it right, because you don’t get another chance.
13:08 Brian Rose: What is dance? I mean, what is the essence of dance? Because you’re talking about being the audience, and if the people don’t feel it, then it’s not right.
13:17 But if they do feel it, then it’s right, regardless if everybody did the exact pieces. But I figure if anyone I was going to ask that question, it would be you. Like, when you take this big bird’s eye perspective on what it is that you do, what is the essence of it?
13:31 Brian Friedman: Dance. Dance, I think, is happiness and joy. I would say that’s what dance is. No one is not affected by dance when they see it. It brings life, it brings movement, it provokes emotions, whether they’re sad, whether they’re happy, whether they make you feel sexy.
13:53 Whatever it is about the dance, it takes you on a journey. And that’s what drew me to dance when I was a kid.
14:00 Brian Rose: I said it was the only way you knew how to communicate.
14:03 Brian Friedman: Yeah, it was. I wasn’t a talker as a kid.
14:06 Oddly enough, because I don’t ever stop talking as an adult.
14:10 Brian Rose: You got better at it.
14:12 Brian Friedman: I can’t stop talking. But as a kid, I just loved it. It was a connection, it was an immediate connection.
14:19 I got in that dance studio, I was moving my body, it felt right. It became my way of expressing my emotions. And then learning different styles of dance, knowing that I could have interpretive things that were helping me get out, you know, a softer side or a sadder side, and then being able to have the happy styles and hip hop emerged. And I was doing that when I was a kid. And it was just the best therapy, I think, for me and for anyone.
14:49 Anyone who dances knows that. That is your therapy. That’s how we get our emotions out. Dancers wear their hearts on their sleeve. They are highly expressive.
14:58 They play with their fashion. They’re just not afraid to take risks. And I think it’s because they’re so open.
15:04 Brian Rose: I had Kimberly Wyatt at the Pussycat Dolls in here about four or five weeks ago, and she said, you know, most dancers are introverts, and she said she always was. Like when she’s on the stage, she’s expressing, and then afterwards she’s quiet.
15:16 Brian Rose: Maybe that’s because that’s the form of communication.
15:20 Brian Friedman: Yeah, it is the form of communication. It’s funny because they’re introverts with their speech. Right, right. And I’m totally generalizing right now. This is not all of us, but as most dancers are, you ask them to talk, they can’t speak.
15:36 You ask them to move, they can dance all day and all night. So it’s just the way we are. That’s how we express ourselves. Generally, dancers can’t sing either. And we sing with our bodies.
15:46 Brian Rose: Right. Do you think in today’s even more digital way of communicating and in this way that we kind of go more online when we talk to each other, that dance is becoming maybe one of the last few ways we can communicate effectively with each other?
16:01 Brian Friedman: Definitely. So it’s so obvious and carnal, and it cuts through like language. Well, I’m frustrated with the fact that we can’t talk anymore, and I fall victim to that as well. I’m texting everything, you know, a phone call comes in on my phone, I don’t answer it, I’m like, I’ll respond really quick.
16:20 So of course it’s easier to communicate that way. Communicating through your body, now that’s the true test. I believe using your face and using your movement, tells so much more than maybe a few words can. And, you know, Instagram, that’s how people are communicating. There’s so many dance videos now on Instagram and on YouTube, and I’m loving even musical artists.
16:45 They’re creating concept videos with dance to help promote their music and their singles. You’ll get Justin Bieber’s Sorry video on YouTube, and it has, I don’t even know how many billion views, even more than the real video does. So yeah, there’s something to be said about telling your story through movement. I think it’s more effective.
17:06 Brian Rose: Okay, right. Yeah, it just communicates stronger, and without filters, and without, I guess language is like a weird filter.
17:13 Brian Friedman: How many times have we loved a song because of the dance video that supported it? You know, maybe you wouldn’t love that song so much, but then you connect a little bye-bye-bye to it, and all of a sudden it’s effective.
17:25 Brian Rose: Yeah, I mean, case in point, you know, came really wide with Don’tcha. It was a huge, powerful dance number, multiple numbers going throughout the piece that are in my brain somewhere. Forever ingrained.
17:37 Brian Friedman: But those were also great songs.
17:39 Brian Rose: Yeah, true. That’s very true. Yeah, no, I just keep thinking about just that whole concept of just the movement and how we see it and if we need to get back to that. I had a movement artist in here, a movement expert named Edo Portal.
17:52 I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him, but he’s into kind of lizard walks and using your body, and I did a workshop with him where we actually communicated between two people through movement only, and the whole room was like almost trying to touch it and avoiding their touch, and the other person has to kind of attack and avoid their touch, and it was weird because I was having conversations with people I’d never met before, but I could tell this person was playful, this person was aggressive, this person was shy, and we never spoke.
18:20 Brian Friedman: Yeah, it’s body language. I mean, body language is movement, and that’s the thing that a lot of people don’t understand, but what I like about dance and choreography is it’s not just trained forms of dance.
18:30 There’s so much more to movement and so much more to choreography than just jazz, tap, ballet, hip-hop, ballroom styles of dance. With the contestants that I have on the show, I consider it choreography, even the ones that are just standing at a mic stand. It’s about how you coach their movement, so anything that moves can be choreography.
18:47 Brian Rose: Okay, and you like sometimes the small movements. You actually like the Beyonce hand, and those are the things that people remember.
18:54 Brian Friedman: I love the subtle stuff. I mean, I’m all over the board. I can’t say I have a favorite thing. I think that there is joy in things that are very small. There’s also joy in repetition.
19:06 There is joy in huge, crazy acrobatic movements. I love organized chaos on stage, something that doesn’t look like it’s choreographed, but is, and it happens the same every time. I think just being a lover of dance and a lover of choreography and a lover of movement, I could never pick a favorite thing, and I feel like that’s what sets me apart from so many other choreographers out there, is I don’t have a niche. I love to do crazy camp stuff. I love a sequin and a neon and a confetti drop, but I also love sleek and stylish and completely avant-garde.
19:43 I also love understated denim jeans and a white t-shirt off the shoulder barefooted a mic stand. I think it’s that diversity that sets it apart, especially for me working on a show like X Factor, then you feel like you’re not watching the same type of creation in the same genre throughout a whole show.
20:04 Brian Rose: After 10 years, how do you surprise yourself? How do you come up with those new ideas? Do you find that you need to force yourself to go to a new art museum or watch some video you’ve never looked at, or how do you get your brain to create?
20:20 Brian Friedman: Everything that I pass by, sometimes I’ll be walking down the street and I’ll take a photo of something, and that is inspiration. I keep a folder that is my inspiration folder, whether it’s of art or fashion or architecture, and I always draw back on that, and sometimes that’s all you need, is just an image in your head to spark something, and then what it can help you create is something that you never would have gotten to with that inspiration. Sometimes the music is what inspires me.
20:50 Brian Rose: You hear a song and you just know in your head you see it brought to life, but it is difficult, you say, in 10 years of this now.
20:57 Brian Friedman: It’s difficult because a lot of the songs, the favorite songs, you’re doing themed weeks on X Factor, so there’s only so many songs for a Fright Night Week, so sometimes I’ve created eight or nine versions of the same song, and you don’t want to go back and just do the same thing, carbon copy, and give it to another contestant and say, well, this is yours. You want to make it bespoke and you want to make it special for them, so that’s the challenge when you’re doing Could It Be Magic? for the tenth time.
21:25 Brian Rose: What’s the link between fashion and choreography and dance in your mind? I think to an artist, like you, it’s obvious, but I kind of grew up more on the scientific spectrum, and for me, I was always like, but those are different, and only now I’m slowly starting to understand. Actually, I’ve been doing some breakdancing lately, and I know it’s crazy. On the back of this guy, Ido, because I was doing martial arts for a long time, and I was like the tough guy.
21:51 The problem with martial arts is that you’re always punching things and trying to tap people out, and you don’t express yourself as a male, and now I’m really enjoying it, but now I’m slowly starting to see how the music is part of the dance, and then how the fashion is part of the dance. But for people that don’t understand, or maybe even for me, how are they related? Because you have your own fashion label as well.
22:14 Brian Friedman: I can’t say that all dancers, all choreographers have the fashion bug in them.
22:18 I know for me, I did. I think any creators, some people, some choreographers just like to make up movement, and they don’t necessarily have a strong aesthetic style. Others are all about the marriage between their movement and the visual appeal of it. If you want to tell a story, it is imperative that you are visually telling it with your styling as well as the movement that you’re creating. You know, you wouldn’t watch a period film and want to see them wearing current clothes.
22:49 So whatever that is, whatever story this is that you’re trying to tell, you want it to match perfectly. For me, it is all about the styling. It finishes the product 100%. We did performances last week on X Factor for Fright Night, and it was one of my favorite performances we’ve ever done on the show. And I wanted it to be really spooky, really eerie.
23:12 I had these girls walking in on Zimmer frames, or as we call them in America, walkers. They were walking in on these. They were sort of twisted, gorgeous nurses. They were twisted and freaky and mildly crippled with these half-masks on. So without the styling, you wouldn’t have gotten that.
23:31 You wouldn’t have felt that energy at all. It’s playing the character as well as doing the movement. So it’s hand-in-hand. It finishes it. It’s the cherry on top of the sundae.
23:41 If your cherry wasn’t on your sundae, you’d feel shorted.
23:45 Brian Rose: But can fashion inspire dance?
23:47 Brian Friedman: 100%. Oh, 100%. For me, it’s the movement. If I see a great look that I’m inspired by, or see something in my mind that I want to create, then it’s about building the movement that matches the fashion the best that it can.
24:03 If you’ve got an outfit walking down a runway, and it’s got special pieces on it, you want to feature those pieces in the right way. If it’s got these long, drapey sleeves, the model’s going to walk out with their arms open so that you can see the full effect of what that garment is. And it’s the same thing with dance. If I have an idea for something with dancers and helmets, you want them to do choreography that really showcases the helmets, with their heads ticking in different directions and creating profile movement.
24:32 So yeah, fashion can inspire movement. And I think that you can come up with some really unique stuff that you wouldn’t do if you didn’t have that fashion there. If you’ve got your girls in big dresses, you’re going to want them lifting the dresses up, you’re going to want them to do choreography. So it definitely inspires movement.
24:50 Brian Rose: And your label, Brian says Free, is all about clothes for dancers.
24:53 Brian Friedman: Yeah. That whole thing was created, and it’s funny now because I think there are so many options for dancers now. And when I created the line, it wasn’t the same. The fashion world has really been injected into sportswear world, and dancers now have options, and the options are endless for dancers now, and they’re questionable, yet still be able to move in their clothes. And that was why I created my line, is I wanted something that dancers could wear and feel like they weren’t looking homeless.
25:26 Because that was the problem. You’re like, okay, well, I got some sweatpants, some jogging bottoms and a hoodie, and then you leave rehearsal and someone’s afraid you’re going to rob them. So I wanted it to look like we put some effort and time and some money into our wardrobe, but not at a high expense. But now there’s plenty of options. Now there’s plenty of options, but mine are still the best.
25:47 Brian Rose: Right, of course. And it used to just be they would take sporting wear and try to make it work, but there was no style.
25:54 Brian Friedman: Yeah, dancers were like a slave to their scissors and safety pins. They’re like, well, I’ll cut this up and I’ll tie that up and I’ll pin this up and trying to make their own fashion that way. But now, you know, there are so many options.
26:09 Brian Rose: Dancers really do set the benchmark for fashion. What are dancers like? What is this subculture?
26:18 Brian Friedman: Fun, clicky, Peter Pan. Yeah, we’re all a bunch of Peter Pan’s.
26:24 It means I think I’m 15. Okay, all right. No one can tell me I’m not 15. Well, our shelf life is very short. We expire quickly.
26:36 No one wants to hire that 40-year-old dancer that looks their age and put them behind a young pop star. We feel the clock is ticking as a dancer. You feel your joints aching. You feel your muscles tightening up. You feel the wrinkles setting in on your face.
26:53 So all of these things lead you to believe that you are getting old and it is your job as a dancer to fight them if you want to still have your career. Of course, we can all transition into other careers and many dancers have the ability to do that. Actually, I will say all dancers have the ability to do that. It’s just choosing which career path is right for you because we’re artists. So to go into fashion, to go into makeup and hair and all these things that you can continue to do after you’re considered or deemed old, we can do that.
27:23 But we are young at heart. We use our bodies. I think it keeps us young. Dancing is good for the soul. It’s good for your body.
27:32 Brian Rose: Well, I mean, it’s good for your body because it keeps you in shape. But it’s also bad for your body because of the things that we do, like all the falling on the floor. And when you’re young, you’re not having knee pads. You’re not guarding yourself because you don’t feel it then. Let those years keep ticking by and then you realize, oh, maybe I should have taken a little bit better care of my body when I was younger. But yeah, I know, speaking for myself, I have Peter Pan Syndrome.
27:56 And when it’s three in the morning at a party full of dancers, what’s happening?
28:02 Brian Friedman: A party. Are they dancing to you? I had to step away from that world. But I had a great 20s, that’s for sure.
28:10 Brian Rose: You stepped away because it was going the wrong way the wrong way?
28:15 Brian Friedman: Well, my career transitioned. I went more into choreography in my 20s, my mid-20s, which then my responsibilities increased to the point where I couldn’t just show up at my six to eight hour rehearsal and then go home and not take my work home with me. Now, I was working 24 hours a day around the clock, having to be available for meetings and emails, and if things don’t go well, the eyes are on me, not on the dancers. So I definitely have…
28:45 Brian Rose: You had to be more responsible.
28:47 Brian Friedman: I had to be more responsible, but dancers, they’ve got it made. Those were the best years ever when I was on tour as a young dancer with artists. You know, just getting to go all around the world, having it paid for, getting paid to do it, getting to perform in front of thousands and thousands of screaming fans every night, and that was it. You’d work for four or five hours a day, so it’s the best job ever. Love it.
29:13 But it’s Peter Pan, it’s going to be over soon, so enjoy it. It’s fleeting. But enjoy it while it lasts and save your money.
29:20 Brian Rose: And think about the transition. Transition early, which is what you did.
29:24 Brian Friedman: I transitioned early, not to say that everyone has to transition early. I started young, so I think that my transition early happened just because of that. If most people didn’t start their professional performing career at 12, then they would want to still do it. I was done and wanting an itching for something new around the age of 22, 23. I needed to sing my teeth into something else, so that’s why I kind of moved over.
29:54 I still miss it. I miss dancing. I miss performing.
29:57 Brian Rose: You still do dance and perform, right? I’ve seen the videos on your YouTube channel.
30:03 Brian Friedman: I teach class.
30:04 Brian Rose: What are those videos on your YouTube channel where there’s all the people in the background watching all these dancers and your dancing and the heels? What are those?
30:14 Brian Friedman: Those are just master classes, workshops, conventions, events that I teach on, which are open to anyone. And you can come to them, and that’s where I get it out.
30:24 I say that’s our therapy. Those classes, those are my therapy. I love to teach.
30:29 Brian Rose: I mean, there’s two different things going on there. There’s teaching, inspiring, educating, and on the other side of it there is performing, emotional release, and for these young dancers, being discovered and spotted, because these videos have millions of views on them, so it’s a way to further your career.
30:48 So so many things happen in those classes, and this is something that has been going on forever. We just haven’t had cameras inside of them, right? And we haven’t been sharing them, but that’s how I grew up. I grew up in those classes, sans cameras. This is what dancers do.
31:03 This is what we do, and our world has just now opened up to everyone else. And now you have some nice moving cameras, and it really adds some beauty to it. Now we’ve got a Ronin and a videographer in our classroom, which is disruptive, in a way, in a sense, but on the other side of things there is so much that we are benefiting from that. So it’s kind of adapting to the times, evolving with where we are now. Not all my classes are like that.
31:29 I pick and choose. I’m wise with when I decide to do it, and then other classes are just about us inside that room. And I think it’s important as educators that we do draw that line and not go 100% technology and let that take over where we’re at right now. It goes back to that, being able to have a conversation with someone. We shouldn’t just be texting each other.
31:49 We should be able to pick up the phone and talk.
31:51 Brian Rose: Right, because the camera in the room changes the dynamic of everyone. Everyone is on for that red light. And is it on? And yeah, I better do this now.
31:59 And who’s going to maybe see this video? And mistakes are not okay. They’re not welcome on video because they’ll haunt you for the rest of your life. So then people won’t maybe let it flow as much as they would. They won’t take risks.
32:11 They won’t take the chances. Now, you’re out there dancing. You’ve got a crazy number with the heels on. And I don’t know much about dance, but that’s probably an ignorant thing to say because I’m a human. So I guess I do know about dance.
32:23 I understand human movement. Watching it means you know it. Everyone can be a critic. Just like watching singing competitions, you know when it’s bad. You know when dancing is bad.
32:33 I mean, I might not know some of the nuances, but you’re right. I have the feeling. That’s why you trust the audience at X Factor because they know. That’s the point. You’re trying to spike a unique emotion that only happens when they watch other humans move.
32:45 You can’t get that emotion from a drug, a video game, anything else. That’s why people tune in, right?
32:51 Brian Friedman: Yeah, dance can make you cry. It can make you laugh. It can make you feel attracted to the person you’re watching.
32:57 Whatever it is, it definitely makes you feel.
32:59 Brian Rose: And when I see you dance, I see you’re letting out some demons. It feels like you haven’t been performing for a while. It feels like, man, I’m on, I’m on, I’m on. Maybe a little angry.
33:09 I can’t tell.
33:10 Brian Friedman: It depends on what it is. What the choreography is, what the song is. There’s definitely a level of aggression that I have. And yeah, it is a bit like unleashing something that has been caged up.
33:25 Because again, I don’t get to dance that much. I love to do it. It’s also my own choreography. So I don’t get to, I don’t get to have that much fun. I miss doing other people’s movement.
33:41 I’m sick of my own movement. I miss being a dancer. I miss going into a rehearsal and learning someone else’s choreography. I mean, I don’t get to do it that often. And that was what I did as a child.
33:56 That’s what I did growing up. So I miss my old life in a way. I’m sick of my work.
34:01 Brian Rose: I’m surprised. I thought it would be the ultimate dream that you would never have to listen to someone else and do their moves.
34:08 Brian Friedman: It would be my ultimate dream right now. Okay, this is to never make up another step again. That would be my ultimate dream. And then if I didn’t have to make up another step for six months, three months, I probably would miss it and run right back into it. It’s just I’ve been doing choreography for so long now that it’s not that it doesn’t inspire me because I’m inspired to direct choreography and create a scene.
34:40 I just don’t want to make up those steps anymore. There’s only so many five, six, seven, eight’s you can do. Until you’re a little bit burned out. So that’s why I’m really happy on X Factor right now because that’s what I’m doing. I’ve got my choreography team there that are doing the steps.
34:53 And then I go in and I micromanage and scrub them and change them and flip them and swap them and stage them and turn them into something that we’re all happy with.
35:04 Brian Rose: Okay, is dance inherently sexual? Like I’m watching the videos on your channel and I’m looking at this stuff and I’m just like, yeah, is that a random question? But I had to ask it.
35:16 Brian Friedman: Well, it’s your body. You feel it when you’re moving and there’s something euphoric about moving your body.
35:23 And yes, there is definitely a similarity between sexual emotions and feelings and dancing. So we as dancers are sexual beings, I think. I know with my movement there’s probably 60% of the time something sexual involved in it. Tasteful, yet sexual. Now with my age I’m a little bit more refined.
35:54 But yeah, dancers are sexual beings. Choreography can be sensual.
35:58 Brian Rose: And also, you’re not restricted by language or culture like we are when we talk. I mean, you can’t talk about that. But when you’re dancing, you can kind of go where you want to go.
36:10 Brian Friedman: You can, but it’s still, you have to censor yourself. I believe that it’s wise to not just completely be all out there. Unless that’s the audience that you’re performing for, you know? But you have to just think about who your audience is. I think that’s really important.
36:28 Know if people are watching, if they’re going to be little kids, then you don’t want to do that. YouTube’s the difficult thing, though. Because it’s an open platform and kids can watch it. So I try to be cautious about what I put out there and make sure that it’s acceptable for everyone. But it is up to the parents to filter what their kids are watching.
36:52 Brian Rose: The movie Black Swan, I don’t know if you saw that. And I didn’t like it at first, but now I like it better. But I mean, the rough concept was he was trying to get this dancer emotionally out of her shell so she could deliver this performance. I mean, I’m generalizing, but it was something like that. And I’m wondering, is that accurate?
37:10 Brian Friedman: All the time. 100%. There’s so many dancers. And that’s one aspect of what I do, is training dancers and grooming them for their careers, mentoring them. And you just want to crack them with a hammer sometimes and just break that shell, the exterior that is guarding them.
37:33 Because it’s in their head. And it’s not all dancers. It’s some dancers. You see that potential, but they haven’t clicked yet and been able to connect emotionally. It happens with singers, too. You hear the song and they sound great, but they haven’t tapped into that emotion so that it becomes real.
37:50 And it’s a difficult thing. You can’t force someone to get there, but you can break them down a bit to try and help. And it happens all the time. You want to break into those performers. You want them to connect.
38:06 Brian Rose: Do you have certain strategies, non-black swan strategies?
38:10 Brian Friedman: I am just honest. I feel like honesty is the best policy in life. I don’t ever want to beat around the bush with someone and mix words. I’m very direct.
38:22 If someone doesn’t give me exactly what I need, I tell them exactly what it is that I need. If they aren’t giving it right, I let them know.
38:30 Brian Rose: What would you say, like, Brian, why are you holding back? Why are you scared? What are you impressed? Are you worried someone’s going to see it?
38:38 Brian Friedman: Well, I would let them know, I feel nothing when I see you. And I think that that’s it. Letting them know the exact truth, putting a bunch of extra adjectives in there, just plainly putting it, I feel absolutely nothing. This is just steps. There’s no emotional connection. There is no connection to the story.
38:58 And no one wants that. No one likes that. You can only take superficial for so long. You want realistic. And it’s not always the best dancers that deliver that heart. And you’ll see that they’re the ones that are getting the jobs.
39:13 And this goes to the singers, too. You may have the best voice in the world, but if you’re not making us feel something emotionally, we don’t care. And we’re not going to buy the album. We’re not going to watch the video. So I think it’s about honesty.
39:26 It’s always about honesty and being real. It’s the people that guard themselves and hold everything inside that won’t reach their full potential.
39:34 Brian Rose: So it’s all about really being open.
39:35 Brian Friedman: I think it is. I think that’s what artistry is. Artistry is sharing your gift. And the gift has to come from a real place. It has to be authentic.
39:43 Brian Rose: I had Will Young in here a couple months ago, and I’m like, when you’re out in front of all those people at the O2, you have to be ultimately congruent with yourself and channel those emotions out to the people, and then they can tap into it and feel that way. But if it’s not real, and if you’re not an open vessel, then it’s just going to be something else, right?
40:04 Brian Friedman: I think it’s about being relatable. I think if you’re open and honest with your feelings, then I’ll have something to connect to as a viewer or a listener.
40:13 And if you’re not, we don’t get inside. We can’t get invested in someone. You want to feel like you can relate. You’ve been there. You know the sadness that they’re singing about or dancing about. You know the heartache. You know the happy feelings, the joy.
40:29 You can relate to your own time in life that is what is in that music. So it’s relatability, I think.
40:35 Brian Rose: I was thinking about the singer Edith Piaf. She was always known as not being the perfect singer, but she tapped into this feeling. Like when she sings, you’re like, oh my God, you can feel her pain and her struggle and everything. And I don’t even speak French.
40:51 Brian Friedman: Yeah, I mean, it’s a lot of pop stars, too. Not necessarily like the best voice. They’re not singing like Celine Dion, but it’s their performance quality that takes them through the roof. And you buy into it. I’ll buy into Lady Gaga all day because it’s just so raw and unapologetic. I love that.
41:15 Brian Rose: You have a notorious stare in the business. I guess you’d give it probably when you say, I’m not feeling anything. Tell me what the stare is all about and why is it so effective?
41:28 Brian Friedman: I don’t necessarily stare when I’m talking. I stare when I’m viewing things and I’m not aware that I’m doing it.
41:36 So I can’t even really comment on it. I’ve just been told that I scare people a lot when I stare at them. And it’s not intentional. It’s not intentional at all. I think I’m really nice. I am. I’m really nice.
41:53 It’s just when I’m in work mode and I’m in the zone, I work fast and I want excellence and I don’t like waiting for it. So maybe that materializes in a dead stare. I don’t know.
42:06 Brian Rose: Plus you’re known for being able to see the dancer in the very back in a pack of 20 that didn’t move their wrists the right way. So probably then they see you stare. They’re feeling it.
42:19 Brian Friedman: Yeah, I think that’s why I got into choreography is because I was so frustrated because I was a fast worker and a fast learner. And when I’d be in rehearsal with all the other dancers and they’d be making mistakes, it frustrated me. So that was why I kind of wanted to choreograph in the beginning. I was like, well, if I can lead the room and be in charge, then no one will be making mistakes anymore. Because yeah, I see the flaws. Only the flaws. I never see the good.
42:49 Brian Rose: You’re obsessive compulsive that way.
42:52 Brian Friedman: Yeah, if that’s what that means, yes. But that’s also got you to where you are. So that is… That’s the one thing I say. I will always deliver a polished product. You don’t ever have to worry about anything being messy or out of place. It will always look good.
43:09 Brian Rose: Which is why you’re doing what you’re doing, I guess.
43:13 Brian Friedman: I hope so. I mean, it lets me know it’s confirmation that I am where I’m supposed to be. At all times, I couldn’t imagine myself doing anything else. I mean, I do a lot of things in this creative artistic world, and it all feels right to me.
43:29 But I couldn’t imagine being behind a desk or typing. I mean, I type a lot in my job, but typing numbers in, it just doesn’t resonate with me. I think I would go crazy. Crazier than I already am.
43:41 Brian Rose: And what is a nice Jewish boy from Chicago doing in this career path, and now in London, of all places? I mean, it’s not obvious to me how that works.
43:51 Brian Friedman: I’m a hustler. It’s the career path I chose, and I am just loving going down the road and seeing what comes next. I don’t try to hold myself back from opportunity. If something else comes up, I’m the first person to say yes. I love to try new things out.
44:12 And I’m just enjoying this ride. The entertainment business is a big hamster wheel that you just keep spinning on, and it can really tire you out if you don’t find new things to do. Because once you’ve done it, you’ve done it, and then you’re waiting for the next it, which is the same exact thing that you just did. So you have to keep it interesting and keep it refreshing, and I feel like diversifying into all these different areas of the entertainment world has kept me doing that.
44:42 I’m constantly inspired.
44:44 Brian Rose: LA or London, how do you feel about both places? You live in both places? Split your time?
44:50 Brian Friedman: I mean, I can’t say I live in London. I’m just here a lot. It’s my second home. I live here when I’m here for work, and over the last ten years, I’ve been here at least a quarter of the year.
45:02 So I love it here. This is the complete opposite of where I grew up. I grew up in the desert in Arizona with zero rain, and we would pray every day for rain. When it would rain, we would run outside cheering and jumping, and rain made me happier than anything. And so to come here and be able to experience these gorgeous gray days with rain pouring down, it’s just paradise.
45:33 So I love it. Also, I don’t want to say we have no culture. We have a different culture in America and on the West Coast specifically, because it’s such a new land. That coming here and seeing things that were built between, you know, ten and eleven hundred and the castles and sixteen hundreds and all of that, it’s just you feel like you’re in a fairy tale when you’re here. And it never gets old. I was just walking with my fiancé last night over Westminster Bridge and looking over at London Eye and Big Ben, and it never gets old.
46:09 We’re taking pictures of it. I have a million pictures from that spot, but I will always love it. I’ll always come back here. I would live here in a heartbeat if it wasn’t so far from my family.
46:22 Brian Rose: Who are in L.A.?
46:23 Brian Friedman: My family’s in Arizona still.
46:25 Brian Rose: Yeah, I can confirm it never gets old. I’ll be in the tube, and I’m like, wow, it’s a red circle. And it’s like I’ve been here for 14 years. So much fun.
46:33 It’s still cool. I still walk by buildings, and I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m still going to a big church, and I’m like, oh my gosh. Yeah, America has a different culture. The West Coast has a different culture, but it sometimes feels like no history and not a lot of culture. And sometimes it doesn’t feel like much fashion. And then you kind of come here, and it’s just like you look at the suits, and you look at the fashion, and then you’re like, well, why are they wearing the suits?
46:53 And it’s kind of like from New Money and the Industrial Revolution, and people were trying to dress their class, and it used to be a clasp. And there’s all this stuff happening that I find really interesting.
47:04 Brian Friedman: Yeah, I love the culture here. Love the architecture. I love that it’s a melting pot for food, and I’m a big foodie.
47:10 So I love everything about it here. I don’t love the traffic. I don’t love the traffic at all, but we have traffic in LA. It’s just a different kind of traffic. So I think I get the best of both worlds, being able to live and work in LA, and also work here, and spend large quantities of time.
47:28 Brian Rose: And how do you manage LA without going crazy?
47:32 Brian Friedman: We moved to the suburbs and the hills, so that is how. We have unplugged and plugged in somewhere where we can breathe, and birds are chirping outside, and we can go hiking right behind our house and the mountain, and it’s beautiful. And it helped separate from business and work. Or not business and work, business and real life.
47:59 We’re at home, and then I drive in for work, and when I leave, I leave it all behind. So I miss home right now. I definitely do. I’ve been in this new house for two years, and this is the longest that, well, not true. I was away last year when I had to go into Jungle Hell.
48:16 But this is the longest I have been away and with luxury, and I just miss my bed.
48:21 Brian Rose: Talk to me about becoming a celebrity, because you are the celebrity choreographer slash creative person, more so than anyone has been in the past. I mean, obviously there were people like Paul Abdul that crossed over after being choreographers and to being singers, but you obviously are enough to be invited on the Jungle, I’m a celebrity, get me out of there. What’s it like doing both?
48:45 Brian Friedman: Celebrity is a very odd word to me, which is why when I was in the Jungle, I refused to ever say I’m a celebrity, get me out of here, because I would never say those words.
48:57 Brian Rose: Are you supposed to say that?
48:59 Brian Friedman: Yeah, you have to say that if you want to get out of something. That was reason A, but reason B is I will never quit anything. So celebrity is a strange word for me. I love what I do. I love that people are supportive and behind it. I remember being a little kid.
49:17 I was like, I want to be famous. So back then I said that, but that was before social media and people knew everything about you and your life. And before I lived around celebrities and worked with celebrities and I saw that it wasn’t all it was cracked up to be and the loss of anonymity and not being able to go outside without having privacy and being stopped all the time. It’s something tough to handle for real celebrities. I don’t consider myself a real celebrity.
49:49 People know me, but they aren’t going to knock down their friends to get to me. And you’ve seen that. And I like it that way. I do. I like being able to have my life still. I am completely grateful for when I am noticed and people notice me because they say that they love what I do.
50:08 Brian Rose: Yeah, I’m 100% behind that.
50:10 Brian Friedman: I’m thankful for that, grateful for that, but I’m also grateful that I still have a little bit of privacy, a dash of privacy.
50:21 Brian Rose: How was the jungle?
50:22 Brian Friedman: The jungle was life changing in all the best and worst ways. It tested my patience. It made me conquer my fears. It showed me that everything. I hate dirt. I hate sun. I don’t like to be around people when I want to escape and be alone and not be able to.
50:44 Brian Rose: And they put you in a pressure cooker.
50:48 Brian Friedman: I hate bugs. I don’t like to be itchy. I like products, beauty products. I like grooming. I love food. I love salt. I love seasonings. There’s so many things. I love hot running water.
51:05 All the things that I love were torn away from me and I was put in hell. And I don’t think the public understands how bad it is in there. They think that you just have stuff being handed to you when the cameras aren’t on. The cameras are never not on and nothing is being handed to you. Nothing is easy. You are working all day, every day under really bad conditions. And then in between that being tortured with these challenges. And everyone thinks, oh, that’s fine. I’ll stick my hand in it. It’s when you’re standing over it and you have to do it.
51:43 That’s when you really understand how difficult it is. And I talked to my friends before I went in there. Ashley Roberts was on the show and I asked her, should I do it? And she didn’t really explain to me, couldn’t explain to me. And that’s the thing is you can’t really understand it unless you’ve done it.
52:00 And now when I meet people who have gone through the experience, I feel like they’re extended family even if I’ve never known them because they’ve gone through the same experience that I went through. But I wouldn’t change it. Maybe I would have requested that Lady C was not in there because I think that she ruined the experience for a lot of us. Because the first couple of days we were in there were joyous. And I think without that energy and that poison, we would have had a great experience.
52:31 Brian Rose: Strange how a little bad energy can ruin everything.
52:34 Brian Friedman: It’s cancer. It’s infectious.
52:36 Brian Rose: You’ve probably seen that in dance and performance.
52:40 Brian Friedman: Oh, you see it everywhere. It’s just the bad seed, the bad apple, whatever you want to call it. Yeah.
52:46 Brian Rose: Did you get more famous after that? Did it help with work?
52:50 Brian Friedman: I think it put me out to a different audience, maybe normal people. I call them normal people. It’s people outside of the music world.
52:59 I think they maybe saw me and I’ve never watched the show back. I haven’t watched it because I don’t want to know what happened. I had my own experience and I loved the experience that I had, the friends that I made. To see them talking negatively in their little interviews or things like that, I don’t want to see that. I know that what I experienced was real and true and I want to keep it that way.
53:20 So I’m just hoping that the people that did see me and were introduced to me knew, saw a real side of me. But I don’t know. You never know.
53:29 Brian Rose: Do you miss being a judge and will you be a judge again on some of these television shows?
53:35 Brian Friedman: I’m a judge now on my show in the US. It’s called Every Single Step.
53:40 We just finished our second season and it’s airing there now. So I love being a judge. I’ve got a lot to say.
53:47 Brian Rose: It seems like a natural thing for you.
53:49 Brian Friedman: When it comes to judging something like X Factor, I was a judge for a minimal amount of time.
53:55 Prior to doing that, I judged a show here, Grease is the Word, which was a singing competition. I’m fine judging a singing competition. These contestants that I mentor, basically all of them on the X Factor, I consider them like my little babies and my children, guiding them through the season. I do consider myself someone who has a valid opinion of what they should be doing on stage and what they shouldn’t be doing and how to bring the best out of them.
54:18 I believe that’s what a judge is there for, is to give constructive criticism so that you can see them grow and come back the next week stronger. So I think as a judge I have a lot to offer. We’ll see if I judge more singing stuff. As far as judging dance, that’s definitely where I belong.
54:33 Brian Rose: And how is judging in general on these judges?
54:35 Are you usually happy that these people are giving constructive criticism, or do sometimes they go off the reservation and become happy? Happy with other people’s judgment? Or are they sometimes just on their own personal, you know, page?
54:50 Brian Friedman: I don’t know what motivates them, all of them, in those moments to say what it is that they’re saying. I know that a lot of the judges do give great constructive criticism.
55:00 I think one of the best judges is Nicole Scherzinger right now on X Factor.
55:04 Brian Rose: And you spent a little time with her judging? Did you have an overlap with her at all?
55:08 Brian Friedman: I’ve judged with her, well, not judged with her, but I did the creative in the US for a season and then I did it here with her in 2012 for a while when she had James Arthur. So I know Nicole really well, and I’ve also been her director on a lot of projects and choreographer over the years.
55:23 But I’m not being biased. I’ve worked with all of them. I just think that Nicole, being that she is an artist and a performer on that stage and she’s an incredible vocalist, she knows what to say to get things out of her contestants. And it works. I see her contestants growing. So I think that she’s a great judge.
55:41 But yeah, when judges do say things, I’m sitting there, not necessarily on this show, on all shows because I’m a reality show junkie. I watch everything. I do sit there and scream out loud at the TV, tell them something constructive, give them something. You can’t just like everything.
56:01 Brian Rose: Yeah, I think it’s all about how they grow.
56:04 And if you don’t give anything to grow from, then I don’t think you’re doing a job. You’ve worked with some pretty famous people, danced with them, helped them choreograph or choreograph them. Can you give me a little bit of insight of what they’re like if I just hit you with their name? Just something we might not know or something you remember about them? Nicole, one of them. When you dance with her, what’s that one thing where you’re like, Nicole is like this?
56:25 Brian Friedman: Nicole’s a perfectionist. Like beyond perfectionist. She’s one of those artists that is standing there with the room of dancers giving her dancers corrections behind her. I remember we were in rehearsal and she asked me if I could move one of the dancers that was off her shoulder to the outside because they were distracting her because they weren’t getting the steps right. You can feel it.
56:47 And it’s crazy. The artist is normally the one who’s trying to get up to that dancer level because their main craft is singing. But she’s just as good of a dancer as she is a singer, so that’s something about her.
56:56 Brian Rose: OK, perfectionist. Michael Jackson, you spent some time dancing with him?
56:59 Brian Friedman: Yeah, I danced for him first when I was a kid. I was 14 or 15. I can’t remember where it happened in the year. And then I got to work with him as an assistant choreographer on an award show, 2001. What I will say about Michael, he was the sweetest guy in the world when I first met him as a kid.
57:19 Because you think this global icon, and I turned to stone when I met him, it was just an awestruck moment. But he made us feel so relaxed and at ease. He came over and was straight into conversation with all of us. So you think, celebrity, they’re going to be cold and turned off and not really involve themselves in people that are below them. But it was great to see that he was completely down to earth, that there was no one higher than anyone else.
57:51 And I think that’s a problem. In the industry, the bigger that you get, you start to think that you are over people that are below you. And we’re all the same. And when you’re dancing with people together, that probably puts a lot of barriers up between you and the trip.
58:04 Brian Rose: They had that whole documentary movie that was showing him behind the scenes when he was doing his O2 performance.
58:10 I watched a bit of it and I could see how he was relating to a lot of younger dancers there. It was fascinating. They were just so in awe of him.
58:20 Brian Friedman: I mean, we say Peter Pan Syndrome, and Michael was a dancer too. And I feel like he had that same thing. It’s the inability to really tell yourself that you’re the age that you are and how you’re supposed to act as that age.
58:36 I refuse to act a certain way because of the age that I am. He took that to the next level in all aspects of life. So that can be a great thing, but also that can mean that you’re in that all the time. I’m a little deluded. I’m delusional. I do think that I’m 21.
58:57 Brian Rose: Britney Spears, you spent time with her. What was that like? Were you going to say, okay, Britney is like this, or I remember this?
59:05 Brian Friedman: Britney is a goofball. That’s what I will say about Britney.
59:09 Being around her from the time that she was 16 years old up until she had children. She’s in her 30s now. She’s a practical joker. She loves to play around. And I think that was the thing that excited me the most about her.
59:24 I started dancing with her before I started even choreographing or doing any other work for her. And just as a dancer, she was just part of the gang, part of the team. It felt like a family. So I loved that about her. Again, there was just no separation between artist and dancer.
59:41 Brian Rose: Okay. What do you mean by that? The separation of the artist?
59:44 Brian Friedman: Well, there’s sometimes a lot of separation. An artist’s schedule, the singer’s schedule, is demanding.
59:50 They’re doing press, they’re doing interviews, and they’re running into a rehearsal. So sometimes they do, I’ve been with artists that keep it strictly business. They show up, they do their rehearsal, there’s not a lot of conversation, they leave the room. Then you have someone like Britney who is there hanging out the whole time. When there is a moment down, she’ll want to get together with all the dancers and the choreographer and go out to dinner, plan little events.
1:00:15 So it’s that family environment that I think is really appealing and I think it keeps everyone happy at work.
1:00:23 Brian Rose: Okay. Beyonce.
1:00:24 Brian Friedman: Beyonce, the best dancer ever. There’s just something about her drive and her work ethic when she’s performing.
1:00:32 She doesn’t want anything else to be better in the world than what it is that she’s putting on the stage. I think that she’s the Michael Jackson of our time. Wow. Because Michael was the singer. Michael was the pinnacle of what a pop star should be.
1:00:49 And I believe that now Beyonce with the dancing and the singing and the spectacle, she’s achieved that level as a female. She’s obsessed with that perfection of being the best she can possibly be. She’s obsessed with getting better. It doesn’t get to that level where, okay, I’ve arrived, it’s what’s next. How do I continue to grow and be stronger and put on a bigger spectacle and a bigger show?
1:01:16 Brian Rose: Yeah, I started the O2 like a year or two ago and she just, you know, she popped out of the floor in the very beginning and she just stands there. It’s the Michael stance where you stand and the crowd is screaming and you just look around at them and they’re waiting for you to do something. I mean, she has that, she’s that captivating. Yeah, I was like, wow. I wasn’t like, I was just like, yeah, you’re right.
1:01:38 Brian Friedman: She’s the type of artist that I’ll hear a song of hers and I won’t necessarily love it and then I’ll see her perform it live and I’ll fall in love.
1:01:47 Brian Rose: Right. Because you feel the soul.
1:01:49 Brian Friedman: Because I feel the soul.
1:01:50 Brian Rose: Salt and peppers and you’ve had some time with them.
1:01:53 Sorry, I’m old school.
1:01:54 Brian Friedman: Yeah, I worked with salt and pepper when I was a kid.
1:01:57 Brian Rose: Well, they weren’t known for their dance or were they?
1:02:01 Brian Friedman: They were known, well, I mean, yeah, if you look back at like the push-it video, it was dance. That was the early days of hip-hop.
1:02:08 Brian Rose: They were on stage, it was like a concert.
1:02:10 Brian Friedman: Yeah, it was a concert. But they’re cutting it. But yeah, I got to dance for them when I was a kid. And it was the best because we were doing that type of dancing.
1:02:19 This was like early days of hip-hop, crisscross. I danced for them who sang jump and salt and pepper and it was all that era. I got to work with a lot of amazing people. Paula Abdul at that same time when I was a kid, I think I got spoiled to the point where, you know, you’re like, okay, well, anyway, how do I up my game from this? I was just really lucky. I was a really lucky kid and thankful that I was so lucky to be able to have that opportunity, especially in a time before social media, where you could be discovered anywhere in the world and achieve stardom and fame on Instagram or YouTube.
1:02:58 I had to do it the old-fashioned way and my parents had to give up a lot and take me out to L.A. and chase the dream and we made it happen.
1:03:07 Brian Rose: You talk about the old-fashioned way. How did you get in touch with all these people? How did you make it happen? I mean, are you going in and drive?
1:03:16 Brian Friedman: I mean, it’s a good old Taylor Swift way. Her family took her to Nashville. She went into every record label and would sing until she eventually got signed. For me, it was a little bit different. I didn’t go to every dance studio.
1:03:28 I started dancing and about nine months later, I went to L.A. with a friend who was taking classes. She won a scholarship to go to a famous dance studio in L.A. and I went with her over the summer. An agent was watching class and came up to me afterwards and asked where my mother was and she wasn’t with me.
1:03:45 Brian Rose: You were 16 at the time, right?
1:03:47 Brian Friedman: I was 12. I was 12 at the time and we called her and she signed me and I flew back to L.A. shortly thereafter for an audition for the movie Newsies and I booked it and then it was just straight away into work for me going to school at home and going to school on the set at work and it was a different life.
1:04:08 Brian Rose: And did your talent carry you to work with all these people or did you still have to go out there and like walk into people and introduce yourself and do all of that stuff?
1:04:19 Brian Friedman: I networked that whole time as a kid. I met everyone and it was about the friends that I would make on the job and the choreographers that I would work with, them hiring me then again on the next job because I did well on that job and going and taking people’s classes and then seeing them at an audition and then remembering me from class and hiring me. I definitely worked but I hadn’t been dancing that long so I was hired in the beginning off of I think potential and my spunk more so than my ability but then I built my ability up to match.
1:04:54 Brian Rose: Is that advice you give to people these days?
1:04:57 Brian Friedman: Oh yeah, I mean it’s all about for me finding that diamond in the rough when I see a student in my class, that I see what was in me, that’s probably the most exciting thing. When you just see that hunger and that drive and you see the potential. I’ve had a lot of those students come up and now seeing them be famous and I guess that means I’ve been around a while when my students are now choreographers and directors themselves but that’s I think the most fulfilling thing about that aspect is seeing my journey in them.
1:05:28 Brian Rose: What do you see, like when you see someone in your class where you’re like that’s a diamond in the rough, can you articulate what it is that gets your attention?
1:05:39 Brian Friedman: I can’t, it’s just that head snap where you’re drawn to someone. It can be a room of a thousand or fifteen hundred kids and your eye goes to that one who is, they have no inhibition. That’s what it is. They are not afraid to make a mistake and to look silly.
1:05:56 They listen as you’re teaching them and as you give a correction you see it applied. That’s when you know you’re dealing with someone who has an incredible future ahead of them. Lack of inhibition takes instruction and then moves on. They’re a sponge and that’s funny because that’s the term that my teachers use for me and I would hear that a lot when I was a little kid. They would go up to my mom and say, he’s such a sponge.
1:06:23 I love that so much and I feel like it’s the same with these kids. However, I’ve never used that term for them but I will. I will start now.
1:06:31 Brian Rose: When you were in L.A. you had to come out to your mother.
1:06:34 Can you just talk about that experience? Because you said it was one of the greatest moments of your life even though it was potentially one of the scariest days.
1:06:43 Brian Friedman: Yeah, I haven’t actually talked about that other than in written interviews.
1:06:47 It was the life changing moment because I had been living for 20 some odd years in secrecy. At least secrecy for my family. I did 17 or 18 years lying to myself and then the rest of it was lying to other people around me and also just not feeling like I could be who I was publicly and openly. I was a dance teacher and I was still teaching children everywhere but I felt like, oh I can’t talk about this. I can’t say who I am.
1:07:21 I can’t be open and honest because it’s just not accepted in this world and it shows what a different world we live in now that anyone can be themselves and be accepted and I can even get married. That’s what’s crazy.
1:07:34 Brian Rose: How many years ago did this happen? When you came out?
1:07:38 Brian Friedman: I came out when I was 20, maybe 26.
1:07:40 Brian Rose: So 13 years ago I think it’s hard for people to remember sometimes. I mean it is a different time, right?
1:07:47 Brian Friedman: Completely different time and I think young kids now will never know that time. They can read about it in books but growing up gay was not okay. It was not accepted.
1:07:58 We didn’t have any role models, nothing and no one to look up to. So it was beyond brave to come out to even yourself and your small group of friends let alone your family and publicly. Once I came out to my family because I was in a relationship and I had to and it was the biggest weight off of my shoulders and I felt like that’s when I really started living. That was when life began.
1:08:25 Brian Rose: Because you were being fearless.
1:08:27 You were being congruent with who you were.
1:08:31 Brian Friedman: I was doing everything I tell my dancers to do. And it was that moment that life started living for me. And then being able to be married and watching now where our LGBTQ community has gotten is just amazing. I never would have thought as a kid that I would be looking at trans people being accepted.
1:08:57 Never thought it would happen that fast. Never thought it would happen ever. And it’s not that I wasn’t optimistic. I just thought it would never happen. It was so taboo.
1:09:07 And being from America, it’s different over here. I think people are different. They look at it different in England, in the UK. But in America, taboo. I did not know a gay person in my hometown.
1:09:23 It was the lone gay wolf hiding in school. Arizona in the 90s. Which is not fun. So, you know, going to LA at 12 and seeing, because the dance community, there’s definitely gay people there. And working on a movie like Newsies at the age of 13 and a lot of the older dancers being able to see gay dancers and know that they existed helped me.
1:09:50 And it was a journey from 13 to 16, 17, being able to accept it for myself. But it was an incredible journey. And I think that had I not gone to LA and gone down that path, God knows where I would have been. The torture and the depression. And the torment and the bullying in school, it would have definitely gotten to me.
1:10:11 Brian Rose: Because you would have been bullied if you hadn’t.
1:10:14 Brian Friedman: I was bullied. I mean, I was bullied my whole childhood. In Arizona and LA. From everyone.
1:10:18 From all of my family members and friends and people who I don’t call friends. So, it was definitely different. Because I was gay.
1:10:26 Brian Rose: But you didn’t know you were gay.
1:10:28 Brian Friedman: Different is what you would call it then.
1:10:30 Brian Rose: But you didn’t know you were gay or you did.
1:10:33 Brian Friedman: I knew. Of course I knew. It’s not like I’m going to fight back. You know, that just wasn’t who I was.
1:10:39 So, I think it’s incredible now that all of these kids have role models to look up to who are strong, confident, gay, open individuals. It’s something we didn’t have. You may not have a gay person that’s out in your town, but you can very easily go straight online and find a friend and someone to talk to now. Yeah. Yeah.
1:11:00 Brian Rose: Are you going to get married?
1:11:04 Brian Friedman: Yes. We’re just enjoying our engagement.
1:11:09 It could last 10 years. It’s already lasted three and a half years. The process of planning it is daunting. I plan, and Danny, my fiancé, he works with me in this creative world that we’re in. So, all we’re doing constantly is creating performances and visuals and spectacles, and that’s what a wedding is.
1:11:32 And it’s daunting to think about creating for myself. I can’t choreograph if I were to have to dance a solo somewhere. I would never want to choreograph it myself. I would want someone else to do it for me. So, this wedding, it’s something that scares me.
1:11:51 Brian Rose: Right. So, you’re putting it off a little bit.
1:11:54 Brian Friedman: We’re putting it off, but we’re not really putting it off on purpose. We talk about it. We’re like, we’re going to get married.
1:12:01 Sure. Let’s do it next year. And then a year passes, and then another year passes. We have to get married. We really want to.
1:12:09 We want to get married. We want our parents to be there and enjoy the day with us. And then we want to have kids, and we’re really old-fashioned. We want to get married first.
1:12:21 Brian Rose: I respect that.
1:12:22 Brian Rose: Do you give advice to young people who are gay and don’t know how to come out or don’t know how to understand what’s happening? And to people listening or watching, I mean, what do you tell people that are still terrified to tell their parents or all those kinds of things?
1:12:35 Brian Friedman: Just that they’re not alone. That we’ve all gone through it, too. And I think that if they can hear that and understand that, that there are people that they look up to that are just like them.
1:12:44 And we came out on the other side that they can do it, too.
1:12:47 Brian Rose: Yeah. And again, like you said, you’re looking for people to be without inhibition, to be congruent with their feelings. And if you’re walking around with that, you’re not going to be a good singer, a good dancer, and most likely not anything else in life. So the sooner you kind of…
1:13:02 Brian Friedman: You have to be yourself. You have to be unafraid to be yourself.
1:13:06 Brian Rose: When you think of the word successful, who comes to mind? It could be someone who’s in the past, in the present.
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1:13:16 Become a member and get access to live shows, exclusive courses, my webinars, bonus content, meetups, live events, an amazing community, and much, much more. Now back to the rest of the show.
1:13:32 Brian Rose: Brian, I always ask everyone here a couple of questions at the end. I’m going to hit you with these. If you could make a phone call to the 20-year-old Brian Friedman.
1:13:46 Brian Rose: Give that young man a bit of advice. What would you tell him?
1:13:50 Brian Friedman: That it’s not going to turn out how you thought it will. To accept the twists and the turns, and when the moments come up where you feel like everything is crashing down, it’s crashing for a reason, and you’ll learn from those moments.
1:14:05 Brian Rose: Crashing for a reason because of something you did, or a consequence.
1:14:09 Brian Friedman: Crashing for a reason because it’s to teach you a lesson of perseverance.
1:14:14 Brian Rose: Best advice you’ve ever received? Personal business about anything?
1:14:19 Brian Friedman: I always go to this because it’s always in my head. It’s from a mentor of mine who I worked with, who was a director.
1:14:28 He said to me, if I could give you one piece of advice, it is that I don’t know what I’m doing or what I’m talking about. I basically, can I curse on here? I basically bullshit my way through everything. As long as you make people feel safe with you, you’re fine. I turned around and just thought to myself, this is my idol.
1:14:49 My idol telling me that they don’t really know what they’re doing, that they’ve self-taught themselves everything as they go, and it gave me that boost of confidence that if I don’t really know what I’m doing, learn it by doing it and try it out, and then you’ll learn, because the next day, now you know how to do it. I will always walk into the unknown. I will always accept anything and push through, and I’ve learned that I can literally do anything if I want to.
1:15:20 Brian Rose: The last part of that is to that 20-year-old that’s watching us somewhere around the world that wants to be a successful dancer or a choreographer or a pop star. What advice do you give to them? What do they need to do or what’s the mindset they need to have to get to that level?
1:15:39 Brian Friedman: Work your ass off. Work your ass off and let the nos be your fire.
1:15:43 You’re going to hear a lot of no. Everyone’s going to give you nos before they start giving you yeses, so you just need to build from those nos. But train, you’ve got to train. It’s your craft. You have to put all of your energy and determination into that craft if you want to be a singer.
1:16:00 Learn how to sing every different style of music. If you want to be a dancer, learn every different style of dance. The larger your vocabulary is, the stronger you’re going to be. Put the work in. Nothing comes if you don’t work.
1:16:13 Brian Rose: You need to be good in order to even have a chance, right?
1:16:17 Brian Friedman: You need to be good. Now, again, this era with social media fame, you can be famous for nothing. But then do you want to stay famous for nothing, because fame is fleeting and they’re only going to accept the fact that you’re cool for so long. You’ve got to back it up with talent and craft.
1:16:36 Brian Rose: Finally, five years from now, say you come back here and talk to us. What are you going to be doing then?
1:16:41 Brian Friedman: Creative stuff, different stuff. Well, the thing that I’m most excited about right now is my mentorship program. I just launched it. It’s called The Talent Collective.
1:16:49 And it is the way that I can get into every single student, whether they’re a child or an adult that wants to be a dancer or a choreographer, I can get into their home and train them as if I would train my assistants and my team that I have with me in LA and in London. And that’s something that was never accessible or available or even an option for people to do. And this is the first of its kind. So I’m excited about that. I’m excited to see where it goes to, how big it grows, eventually bringing on an army of people in my world to train my students in this program.
1:17:31 That’s the thing that I’m most excited about. I’m excited about getting into all different aspects of the entertainment industry. I’ve still never done a theater show. I would love to do Broadway, West End. I’m choreographing my first animated film right now, another uncharted territory for me.
1:17:47 So the fact that there are still things out there that I haven’t done, haven’t achieved, I still haven’t directed a movie musical, which I would love to. It makes me optimistic, happy about the path that I still have to go down.
1:18:03 Brian Rose: Excellent. Brian, thanks so much for coming.
1:18:06 Brian Friedman: Thanks for having me.
1:18:07 Brian Rose: It’s been very fun for me to get to know you for the last few days, getting ready for this. And at one point, I’m watching all this stuff and I’m just like, you know, this guy, he is a bad motherfucker. I’m always trying to give people lessons to learn from people here, but it’s just like, you know, your perfectionism and your obsessiveness with all these details are the reason you get the phone call because they know you’re going to handle it. And I think when people are like, how can I be the best and how can I be the one that has his job?
1:18:36 Well, you know, people need to know that you are obsessed with delivering a great product and you are obsessed with that and then they’ll give you that responsibility. And so I can see that in you and a lot of the passion. Thanks for giving those lessons on to our people.
1:18:48 Brian Friedman: Thanks for having me.
1:18:49 Brian Rose: As we say on London Real, it’s about the journey.
1:18:51 I wish you well in yours and LA and London and all the best and come back again sometime and you can answer that question.
1:19:12 Brian Friedman: Of course, and I’ll think about it till then. Thank you.
