Full transcript: Robert Kiyosaki on London Real
3:18 Brian Rose: This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Robert Kiyosaki, the entrepreneur, investor, financial expert, and author of the globally renowned bestseller Rich Dad Poor Dad, the number one personal finance book of all time.
3:46 I love saying that. Robert, you have dedicated your life to challenging the way tens of millions of people around the world think about money and investing. You’ve written over 30 books, including one with President Donald Trump. You’ve sold more than 40 million copies of your books worldwide and built a global movement dedicated to helping people protect their wealth. In your book, Rich Dad’s Prophecy, you warned that the biggest financial crash in history was on its way.
4:13 You now believe that crash has begun, that hyperinflation is here, and that millions of people are about to be wiped out financially. You have said there’s still time to prepare and urge people to move out of stocks, bonds, and fiat currency and into real assets like gold, silver, and Bitcoin. You believe gold could reach $30,000 an ounce and Bitcoin could go to $1 million in the next 10 years. You’ve warned that the Fed and the Treasury are running a criminal enterprise by printing worthless money to cover up a collapsing system.
4:46 Your message is simple, Robert. Get educated. Get real assets and get out of the system before it’s too late. Robert, welcome back to London Real.
4:58 Robert Kiyosaki: Brian, how many years have we been talking about this?
5:02 I mean, 30 something years now. Yeah. It’s here. Yeah.
5:06 Brian Rose: You have been the OG of predicting this and you’ve been talking about this stuff on London Real for 10 years.
5:14 On top of that, you know, I’m looking at a Daily Mail article here that’s watched by tens of millions of people around the world, maybe more, hundreds. And it says, “Financial guru who predicted crash of 2008 issues devastating take on US economy.” And of course, they’re talking about you, Robert, you’re getting tons of global traction lately. Why is it that now people are waking up to your message, would you say?
5:44 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, I think was Jim Rickards who said you don’t have to be an economist to know you’re getting screwed.
5:51 You know, something along those lines. You don’t have to go to, you know, Harvard for an MBA in econ economics. You know something’s wrong. Everybody knows something’s wrong. And the thing that’s terrifying to me, not terrifying, but disheartening is the gap between rich and poor.
6:11 That’s that was a I was greatest fear of. And as you and I know, every time you print this fake money, the rich get richer, but the poor middle class get poor. And because when you print fake money, assets go up. But when you print fake money, chicken, eggs, and milk go up. Yeah.
6:32 And so the middle class is getting wiped out. Unemployment’s climbing. And I’m getting richer. You’re getting richer. And I’d rather have everybody get richer.
6:42 But our schools don’t teach this stuff. That’s the problem. Yeah.
6:45 Brian Rose: No, I think people are starting to feel that something’s going on out there. Like you said, and you referenced our good friend Jim Rickards.
6:51 I still remember the time we spent together in Phoenix, I think back in 17, where you and I also recorded that epic interview that went viral. and yeah, Jim says it so well and you say it so well. You know, I saw an article in the FT today, Robert, that said the prices of gold in Iran are like 80% higher than the rest of the world because they’re in this closed system. And even the people there realize their own cash is trash and they’re pushing gold up even higher than the spot levels elsewhere.
7:22 It looks like everybody’s starting to realize what you’ve been talking about for decades, Right?
7:28 Robert Kiyosaki: And then this, you know, there’s been so many books and this I’ve been a student of this. This is The Creature from Jekyll Island. Yeah. That’s about the Federal Reserve Bank.
7:39 And there was a line that I think Jefferson, Thomas, President Jefferson said, if a central bank takes over America, children will wake up homeless in the land their fathers captured. And so homelessness is spreading all across the world, as you know. And it’s pretty disturbing to me personally. I’ I’ve been homeless for about two weeks. And enjoy it.
8:02 But it was in San Diego, so it wasn’t so bad. I live, my wife and I lived in our car for about two weeks till we found something we could live in. But his affordability, as you know, was wiping people out left and right. They lose their jobs and they can’t recover. So, it’s tragic.
8:20 Brian Rose: It’s a tragedy. You know, it’s interesting, Robert, that the public just seems to be much more aware of what’s going on. And maybe it’s because of what Elon Musk was doing with DOGE and the fact that Trump talks about this publicly or the fact that we keep getting repeated back these trillions and trillions of dollars in debt. It just seems like the public’s much more aware of kind of what’s going on and they seem to linking it back to their own savings and I don’t know it just feels like we’re on the edge of a real kind of revolution in that sense.
8:49 Are you feeling that too?
8:51 Robert Kiyosaki: Yes. And I’m going give credit to the younger generation because they’re more, you know, tech-savvy. And they’re the ones who got into Bitcoin early. And they got into Bitcoin early because, you know, my generation, Boomer, Boomer generation is sound asleep at the wheel.
9:08 But the younger generation knows what’s going on. That’s why Bitcoin took off. And so they’re aware of that. You know, like think think about this. Our interest payment on our $36 trillion is greater than the income we collect from taxes.
9:29 I’ll say it again. The interest payments on our $36 trillion is greater than the income we collect from taxes. So, America is going deeper and deeper and deeper into debt. And as you know, being in your field, derivatives are even a bigger problem. And I think derivatives are a quarter a quadrillion dollar problem and it’s we’re sitting on a time bomb right now and it scares me.
9:57 Brian Rose: I mean I feel for the people not prepared for it. You know, obviously, you know, the Trump administration with DOGE and a bunch of things and you know, Howard Lutnick have really talked about trying to get this under control, but it’s really hard for any government to ever get fiat spending under control, whether you’re Democrat or Republican. I mean, the history of humanity, Robert, is that ultimately we don’t have the discipline and we ultimately find our bankers printing money until the system collapses.
10:27 So, is there even anything that Trump can do about this or is it just bigger? Is it the flawed fiat system itself?
10:36 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, as you know, the off-balance-sheet debt include when you take social security, Medicare and America, pensions and all this, it’s 250 trillion. And then when you look at the last war we fought, you know, the World War II, Germany’s in trouble, Japan’s in trouble. America’s in trouble.
10:59 So the whole world’s in trouble and China is in serious trouble. So this is, you know, I’m afraid they’re just going to print more money. That’s not going to solve the problem. Just make it worse. But like every time they print this stuff, like I say, guys with assets get richer.
11:16 Like if you have gold and you print this, gold goes up. But if you’re trying to build buy a carton of eggs, eggs go up, too. Yeah. And then people can’t eat. Yeah.
11:27 Goes up. You know, that’s it’s a tragedy.
11:30 Brian Rose: So, the US is printing, the Euro zone is printing, China is printing, everyone’s going to print. And so, if someone’s listening to us right now and wants to get out of the matrix, Robert, what’s the best thing they can do? How can they start?
11:45 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, that’s why I was I’ve always recommended go to gold and silver, and there’s Bitcoin, but there’s also commodities like oil. You know, I invest in oil wells. I was an oil man before and you know this is my I took this gold mine public. It’s a Trixie mine in Utah.
12:03 Brian Rose: Oh yeah, I remember you told me about that.
12:06 Yeah. Amazing.
12:07 Robert Kiyosaki: And I’ve been the best solution is preparation. But for people today, if you’ve lost your job and you can’t afford to eat, you can’t put a roof over your head, it’s hard to say save gold over Bitcoin. You know what I mean?
12:22 It’s a little late. So, it’s I’m extremely concerned, but you and I have been talking about this for 30 years now. Some people, some people didn’t.
12:33 Brian Rose: Robert, should people try to hold their politicians accountable? You know, I mean, we’ve we’ve seen people criticizing this kind of big beautiful bill and saying there’s still too much spending in there.
12:47 We’re still going to go down a bad path. Obviously, when Biden was in, he just kept printing at post-COVID levels to just this unimaginable amount of money that they were spending for god knows what. Is it worth people trying to reign in the politicians as a temporary fix?
13:04 Robert Kiyosaki: I don’t think it’s fixable. Yeah.
13:06 That’s hate to be so pessimistic, you know, and I don’t see how you can fix $36 trillion of debt. You know, $1 trillion. If you spend $1 a minute, how long would it take you to spend $36 trillion would take you $32,666 to spend a trillion dollars? They print it in a second. You know, it’s they keep printing money to pay our bills.
13:37 They think about that. You go, I think you should stop printing your money, but they can’t now. Do you know what I mean? They just can’t. Yeah.
13:45 Brian Rose: It’s almost like a drug. And I remember one of your books that you said for the average individual, a paycheck is like a drug because you get so used to being fed kind of by the system and you don’t have to be creative. You don’t have to be an entrepreneur. You don’t actually create your wealth and you get so used to someone paying that paycheck. It’s like one step different than getting a welfare check.
14:09 It but it’s still, you know, something you just get really conditioned to without having to create that wealth. You’ve always talked about entrepreneurship and creating value. And that’s something you’ve been talking about for 30 years. Yeah. Is that you know, don’t need a job basically.
14:25 Yeah. Entrepreneur. And that’s something your rich dad drilled into you in what would look like a very cruel way. By the way, I tell everyone I meet, Robert, and by the way, people around the world love you. And I talk to people everywhere.
14:42 I was in Dubai. I was in Toronto recently. And whenever I bring your name up, everybody just their eyes just they just glaze over and just love. And I always tell them, go back and reread Rich Dad Poor Dad. The first 20 pages will blow your mind.
14:56 You think you know that book, reread it. And I just still remember how your rich dad in a in a forceful way forced you to find a way to get creative and create your wealth and in a way where you were just almost getting frustrated because you grew up in this system where nobody had to do that. Everybody got a check.
15:17 Robert Kiyosaki: That’s there’s another book out that’s I endorsing. It’s called The Big Print by Lawrence Lepard.
15:24 Okay. I highly recommend this book because it ex not that it does anybody any good but it explains how he got into this mess here and he talks about the bankers you know the city of London and Wall Street and the big bail out you know they bail out the rich which was criminal at the expense of the poor and middle class. So our our value system is corrupt at the core at the core. You know, when we screw our people to protect the rich and our school systems, as you know, I love this guy here, the Donald, my book with him, Midas.
16:04 Yeah. Amazing. Going after Harvard University, I went, “Yes, Donald, go get him. He’s shutting down the Department of Education.” Yes, Naut.
16:17 Brian Rose: Now, how do you feel? How do you feel about that, Robert? because your poor dad was high level in the education system in Hawaii and you’ve always had a beef with teachers unions and people in higher education. Tell me why you’ve always had that beef and tell tell me what you think of what Donald is doing. Do by the way did you ever think he would be able to take such big action so fast against such a high level institution as Harvard?
16:43 Robert Kiyosaki: He’s got guts, you know, and you know, like people hate him. But I say, could you imagine if Kamala won? Oh my god. Well. That look like Oh my god.
16:53 You know, so what I say to people, history will judge his actions today, not you or I. History would be the judge. And I give him a lot of credit. You know, he has got have a picture of him with his patch on his ear and the day be day before he had been shot and he never watch he and I were watching TV in Milwaukee at the Republican National Convention and he and I were talked cuz I flew the I flew these little helicopters in Vietnam, you know. There it goes.
17:24 Yeah. And we got shot at all the time and it’s an interesting sound. And he goes, “Zip, zip.” And you know, Brian, that zip had been just a little bit more this way, you’d be dead. And Trump was today with this patch on his ear.
17:44 How he’s alive is beyond me. So, we’re talking about what it’s like to have this zip go past you, you know, there, but for the grace of God, go I. And people were coming up to him and says, “Donald, you’re the Messiah. You’ve been saved. I’m not going to go that far, you know, but I’m glad he’s alive.
18:06 Brian Rose: Me, too. It’s still hard to believe he’s still alive. It’s just And it’s hard to even imagine what the world would look like if he wasn’t. You know, I can’t imagine it, Robert. I don’t know if I ever told you, but I got down on my knees and prayed the night before the election.
18:25 I don’t think I’ve ever done that in my entire life. There I was in my in my place in London on my knees praying for his victory. And I don’t know what that says. I just knew it was such an important time, Robert, that I couldn’t imagine that future without him.
18:44 Robert Kiyosaki: I agree 100%.
18:45 But and then there was the Biden crime family, but a lot of people point back to Obama, which was the start of it. So, it’s kind of interesting. I’m not Republican or Democrat. I do my best to stay neutral, but it does seem like the Democrats have been one big crime family. So, anyway.
19:06 Brian Rose: Yeah, there’s a lot of those allegations coming out. I’m sure we’re going to know more. Just wanted to finish up with Harvard. Why is Donald going after these institutions of education? You yourself were censored by some universities in Arizona when you tried to give a talk.
19:21 We saw so many instances of all the the wokeism and all the things going on. Why is it important that Donald’s making a stand there?
19:46 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, if you read the Communist Manifesto by Marx, you know, in there, he spelled it all out. And what happened was what Marx predicted was that communism will infiltrate America through the education system. So in 1930 Columbia University which is an Ivy League school sent away to Germany Berlin and they sent over Marxist professors to teach at Columbia University’s College of Education teachers college.
21:03 You in the investment club. And that was in 1930. And you and I remember what happened in the 60s. It was Kent State and all this is the rioting on campuses. So Marxism came in through our school system.
21:18 I was teaching at Arizona State to Arizona State University, which is one of the biggest schools in America. And the woke professors came after me because I was teaching capitalism. Wow. Came after me. I went, “Wow.”.
21:32 Wow. So, it’s a it’s a institutions of higher education. So, when Donald takes them on, man, I feel like he’s got so you know, Mexicans say cojones, big ones. He has got so I mean, he does not take any BS. And I mean, I wrote two books with him.
21:53 He is a great man. And his sons are great people as compared to Hunter Biden.
21:58 Brian Rose: Yeah, I know you know Don and Eric and you’ve been hunting with them. You’ve known them for a long time and you’ve always said great things about them. We definitely see them coming into their own.
22:09 When I was in Toronto at the Consensus conference, I saw Eric speak and they’re both very good and they’re both very big into crypto and DeFi and it’s interesting. They get questioned about it a lot because they’re getting accused that the pro crypto legislation by the government is in their interests, but they come out and say, “Look, you know, the reason we love crypto is cuz we got debanked in 2020 because of our views and our politics and who our dad was. This is by necessity.
22:37 This isn’t, you know, because we all of a sudden wanted to change our business model. As they said, they used to be able to pick up the phone and get a loan from any bank in the world because they were the Trumps and then the next day they couldn’t get a loan from anyone. And so, yeah, it’s great to see that family really pushing forward. And you know, we’re big into crypto here and it’s just so refreshing to see that family out there speaking intelligent about the blockchain and in assets like Bitcoin, which we all know is going to help everybody through what you’re calling a greater depression which is upon us.
23:13 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, th this book here, the Big Print, I highly recommend the opening Brian, the opening pages, your blood boils. He talks about Larry Summers and Gensler and all these characters and how they basically screwed the empire, the entire American public to bail out their friends, you know? I mean, there’s something morally rotten. And so, the Big Print is getting at the Big Print hasn’t come yet. That’s why yesterday I was out buying more silver.
23:48 You know, if silver is about $35, and I think next stop is 50. At least I’m hoping it is. But when they print money, assets go up, but so does chicken, milk, and eggs goes up. Inflation. And that’s why it’s wiping out a poor middle class the more they print this stuff.
24:10 But they don’t tell you that in school. It’s tragic.
24:13 Brian Rose: What do you think this one’s going to look like, Robert? You’ve you’ve you’ve coined it a greater depression as opposed to the Great Depression. And you’ve talked about what you see out there, which is record high credit card debt, 1.2 trillion.
24:28 You’ve talked about obviously the rising national debt, 36 trillion. You’ve talked about increasing unemployment rates, declining 401k balances. How bad is this one going to get?
24:41 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, I have I’ve had the benefit, Brian, of this here is a Zimbabwe note. Was $10 million.
24:47 And this here’s a book by a guy Philip Haslam when money destroys nations. So guess where I was when Zimbabwe crashed? I was in Zimbabwe. Okay. Ryan.
24:57 It was terrifying. It was terrifying.
25:01 Brian Rose: What’s it like? Is it just chaos?
25:05 Robert Kiyosaki: It’s panic.
25:06 They don’t know what’s real. You know. Nobody would this stuff And the economy is crashing. And I was sitting in a truck. I’m a hunter, you know, in Africa and they call them the war vets with these black guys with AK-47s pull all up and they point the guns at me.
25:27 I’m going, “Holy mackerel, I didn’t die in Vietnam. I’m going to die out here in Zimbabwe.” You know, but what they did, Brian, was they went to the white farmers and they took their farm and that this was this was I was there, you know, I watching it going, why I’m not really religious, but why does God want me to see this? Why am I here watching this? And they point these guns at me and all this.
25:54 I’m going, all you can do is put your hands up, you know, going, I’m not going to resist. And then they so this little white woman comes running out and they’re they’re hauling her off in the car and she turns to my professional hunter with me, the white guy too. She says, “Burn this place down, gentlemen. Burn it down.” So Brian, we got torches and they had all these grass shacks and the farmhouse and then the the tractor yard and the and the diesel fuel.
26:30 We torched the whole It was blowing up. I thought I was back in Vietnam again. Wow. You know, just blowing up. Fires going everywhere and we’re hauling our butts out of there.
26:41 But she just she just said, “Earn this place down. I don’t want to have anything.” But I saw it. I’m going, “Wow, so why did I see that? Why was the signature trauma the day after he got shot?”
26:56 You know, I’m going, “Why am I seeing this?” So, you know, how do I meet you? 30 years ago, we keep talking about the same thing, but now it’s here.
27:06 Brian Rose: I think that was a small glimpse into what could be coming to the Western nations like America, Europe, etc.
27:13 Robert Kiyosaki: It’s already here.
27:14 When I see the homelessness, it’s like Jefferson said it, you know. Yeah. When we central bank, homelessness will spread. How he was so, you know, prescient. This is Thomas Jefferson.
27:26 Brian Rose: I heard that quote recently, Robert, and yeah, he said, ‘When you allow the bankers to have control, then sooner than sooner or later, you’re going to lose your homes, you’re going to lose your this, you’re going to lose everything. And this was something he said. Yeah. And it sounds like a quote that came from someone 10 years ago, but it was 250 years ago. Yeah.
27:47 Nobody. The homelessness is something Yeah. That it’s just I know in America and other places people just grown accustomed to it but if you come from a Dubai where there’s zero cuz it’s illegal and then you go to America it’s something you notice right away and it’s kind of shocking but then you grow accustomed to it if you’ve been there for a long time as if it’s normal but it wasn’t normal 30 40 50 years ago was it?
28:13 Robert Kiyosaki: I look at San Francisco, one of the most beautiful cities in America, and then people don’t go there anymore because this, you know, there’s human feces all over the place.
28:23 What happened? And I think what this guy is here, Lepard is saying here is when you have bad money, and you have fake money come into a system, that’s Gresham’s law. You know what I mean? When bad money into the system, good money goes into hiding. So for years you know you saying buy gold, silver, bitcoin you know this is my go my goal mine here is I’m getting rich I own oil wells I own cattle I own commodities you know things like this but I stay away from paper I just don’t trust him.
28:59 Brian Rose: Robert for the average person out there I know you said if someone’s really struggling it’s hard to set aside anything to buy an asset but if someone was and probably it would be a great educate for them. Even if they spent 20 bucks a month or 50 bucks a month, just to start changing their mentality, what should they buy? I know when you came out with your original board game, which is behind you, Cash Flow. By the way, for everybody out there, you should get this board game.
29:25 They also have one for kids that I play with my kids here in London. And I’m starting to, you know, train their brains the correct way to understand assets and liabilities. It’s amazing. But in the original days, you were talking about owning real estate. Now you’re talking about owning gold.
29:42 You just mentioned that you think silver is one of the best opportunities right now because you think it’s still relatively low to where it should be. And then of course you’ve been talking about buying Bitcoin and then even Ethereum in the past because you like those as assets. Where do you think people should start on that spectrum? Because it’s hard for some people to own real estate with tiny amounts of money, right?
30:07 Robert Kiyosaki: I you know, Brian, I get into I get into fights because a lot of I have one friend with four daughters and I said, “Have you read my book?”
30:15 He goes, “No.” I said, “Who’s teaching your kids about money school?”. Oh. He doesn’t he doesn’t care, Brian. He’s an intelligent guy.
30:26 He’s very smart, but he doesn’t he has kind of a block against money. So that I tried to give him a communist manifesto which I had read at n at 19. I read the communist manifesto and you know it says a graduated income tax is essential for the spread of communism. Abolition of private property. I mean what else can you ask?
30:49 Oh workers of the world unite labor unions. Everything my poor dad loved the doors. So it was tough. I was 19 years old and went to school in New York. And then I realized my family are Marxists.
31:04 Not that they’re bad people. You know, economics is like a religion. Like, you know, there’s Jews, Christianity, Buddhism, and all this. So, Marxism is an electric is a economic religion. Same as capitalism is.
31:20 But as as you and I know in Northern Ireland, you had Catholics shooting Protestants, which made no sense to me at all. You know, I said, “I thought we’re all on the same side.” No, they’re Catholics. Oh, they’re Christian. They’re Protestants.
31:32 What is wrong with people? I had I was dating a girl in New York and the side of her car was IRA, Irish Republican Army. I’m going said, “How can you hate Catholics?” They do. You know what I mean?
31:49 I just don’t understand people. On the side.
31:52 Brian Rose: And so Marxism versus capitalism, it’s sometimes just as vehement and violent as religion versus religion. And people kind of pick these mindsets. And then these days it’s Trump anti-Trump with the derangement syndrome, right?
32:05 Those are also lines that people divide. But they really don’t know what they’re signing up to. And then of course the universities to bring it back to Harvard, they pump and promote these belief systems. I don’t know why. Well, it’s probably because they were infected via the manifesto.
32:21 Like you said, it’s the way they control those student bodies. My daughter’s in school in Boston. And you know, she’s getting a special type of brainwashing there as well. And then we saw with the protests that basic human rights went out the window, you know, when those Gaza protests happened. And even my alma mater MIT was hauled up in front of Congress.
32:41 And I was embarrassed, embarrassed to see the president of MIT, this is a school with the greatest technical minds in the world. It is not a school where we should be having people feel uncomfortable because of their religions. And yet that’s exactly what was happening. And they were violating basic human rights. So I’m so glad to see Trump attacking that.
33:01 But I think it all comes down to like you said that communist manifesto which said it’ll happen through the university systems and it did. Right. Yep.
33:11 Robert Kiyosaki: Four dead in Ohio was Kent State and they National Guard shot students. You know, it couldn’t get much lower than that.
33:19 And when I came back from Vietnam, I got spit on, hit with rotten eggs, and you know, called baby killer and all this. And it was I was I landed in just north of San Francisco at Norton Air Force Base. And we got off and these hippies were out there from the Woodstock generation spitting on us. Oh jeez. And I make a I make a joke of it because most of my friends are Republicans and I swear to God I saw Nancy Pelosi out there.
33:49 Brian Rose: Yeah, Robert, I don’t think we can imagine what that felt like. I actually saw this interview on YouTube a couple days ago of a Vietnam vet who came back and then ended up working as a police officer right at the Haight-Ashbury precinct. And he was talking about what it was like to be around those hippies. And man, it did not sound like a walk in the park, man. They had barbwire fence up 15, 20 feet.
34:14 It was like they were walking around with guns. And he said it was like I was in Nam trying to deal with these people. So, I don’t even think we understand how hard it was for you to come back from one war zone to another one where people weren’t even acknowledging your service back then. So, yeah, I just want to thank you for your service because having to deal with that is just hard to believe in in a world now where at least most people know to thank people for their service, you know.
34:44 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, that’s why I commend you and me because we fight back as teachers, you know, we’re capitalists and we teach capitalism. And I think that’s the way we fight back because otherwise you have Marxists teaching our kids, you know, like they believe in taxation. And I keep saying to them, America was founded as a tax-free nation called the Boston Tea Party. Remember that? Yeah.
35:08 You have to pay taxes where B is a tax-free nation. Marx says, “A graduated income tax is essential for the spread of communism.” I can’t they just read that little book. You know, he’s in 1930 when what’s his name? Colombia University imported those Marxist teachers from Germany.
35:33 So you look at what’s happening right now. Germany, America, and Japan were three were fighting and Germany is in trouble. Japan’s in serious trouble. America’s in serious trouble. China’s in trouble.
35:48 You know, Volkswagen just laid off. I don’t know how many tens of thousands of people in Germany. And a big problem with Germany, I’m sure you have heard this, but was they went green. They didn’t want to go nuclear, so they went green. And the cost of energy went so high in Germany, they can’t produce.
36:07 They can’t afford to produce. So this grain movement just keeps spreading its nasty tentacles all the way across the world and it’s all done in the name of DEI, you know, diversity exclusive and all that stuff. I say should be DIIE die or dying.
36:25 Brian Rose: Yeah, it’s just another mind virus they kind of used to control that has no no base in reality. And Robert, here in the UK it’s just getting worse.
36:35 You know, we’ve got a Labor government that are increasing the taxes on foreign nationals that were here. They all bugged out a couple months ago because the UK was trying to tax their assets overseas. So, people that have lived here 20, 30 years, you know, wealthy people that invest, you know, entrepreneurs are are leaving on mass. They’re going to a place like Dubai where the taxes are zero, where they have all these upsides like safety and you know I know a woman in Dubai who spends time there and here and she says you know Brian I wouldn’t mind paying 30 40% tax if I showed up to London and it was safe.
37:13 There was a police force. There was health care. It was clean. But you don’t even get that. And then you go to a place like Dubai with zero tax and it is I think literally the safest city in the world.
37:24 There is no graffiti. There’s no homelessness. It’s just there to actually help you be an entrepreneur. And I look at the UK and Europe and I don’t know how they’re going to reverse it, you know, and the discussions here are crazy. There’s a guy here who I think used to be a trader named Gary has a show called Gary’s Economics and he just keeps preaching that we got to tax the rich and that’s the only way to save the people here.
37:50 And no one’s taking any ownership. And it just feels like Marxism is back and alive and the UK is running out of talent and it’s just gonna it’s just going to end poorly. Robert, I’m sure you see some of that from overseas. Not to mention the fact that people get arrested for Facebook posts. So, it’s kind of sad days here.
38:10 Robert Kiyosaki: No. And I was just in Japan. That was just tragic, you know, because they’re hardworking. But they save money and they save Right. And when they should be investing you know what I mean they’re but they’re savers and then my first gold mine was in China and I took it public on the Toronto Stock Exchange and as soon as we struck gold the Chinese nationalized it.
38:38 Yeah. So I found out what the word country risk means you know. So you don’t do business in countries that don’t respect the rule of law and that’s China and I think in the Chinese people but you’ve got to be more I think global who who respects the law who doesn’t and this was the worst thing about it was when they took my gold mine in China was in Dalian, China and the guys called me up you know secretly said for a million dollars you’ll get your mind back and I thought about it, you know, Brian when I thought about it cuz it was a big big mind.
39:17 But then I realized if I do that once, when does it end? When does the paying end, you know? Yeah. I’ll just eat it now. Walked away.
39:30 Brian Rose: Wow. Yeah. You’ve told me that story. You know, I listen to a lot of Steve Bannon lately. He’s got his war room podcast and Rickards goes on there sometimes.
39:40 And I think people don’t really understand Steve Bannon very well. But if you listen to him talk about China, it’s fascinating the way that he characterizes it cuz he says there’s not 1.3 billion communists in China. He said there’s a thousand gangsters in the CCP and they don’t even care about communism. You know, they’re are gangsters and they’re the same guys that took away your mine and that run that country into the ground. But the people of China are probably more capitalistic than any place.
40:07 You know, again, hardworking people, but it’s all run by the gangsters at the top. And I never heard anyone articulate that like Bannon has. And I think he’s on to something there.
40:51 Robert Kiyosaki: Peter Thiel took a half a million dollars and have to have the financial education and the deal flow. That’s it.
41:18 This is the book I read but are full of called The Grunch of Giants. And that’s what this guy is saying too. We have gangsters in our banking system. Yeah. Yeah.
41:26 Brian Rose: Same thing, right?
41:28 Robert Kiyosaki: Yeah, difficult. They don’t care people. They really don’t care. They don’t care, you know, just that they get rich.
41:37 Brian Rose: You know, Robert, you mentioned that schools teach us to be poor. It’s one of the your quotes that I quote all the time. Do you see us making any changes to that schooling institution right now? Obviously, Trump’s going after Harvard. That’s kind of high level.
41:55 Do you think with the advent of AI or these personal tutors that maybe we can at some point start teaching our kids about money?
42:04 Robert Kiyosaki: I think the social media is going to teach our kids. I mean, that’s what I was saying. I many times I find the younger guys more savvy than the older guys in my generation. Okay.
42:16 Because they’re more tuned in to YouTube and things not that it’s but they get more up-to-date news. Not not that all is good. But they’re more tuned into social media than you know channel 9 or 10 stuff like that or CBS. So it’s really changing. The world’s changing very very quickly and so is the younger kids.
42:39 But as as you know like Japan’s going to be out of people pretty soon too. Yeah. Tell me about Japan because as you said they’re almost religious about their saving and in Japan having an idea outside of the norm is discouraged. So everybody kind of goes along and I would argue from what I’ve seen they’re probably the worst of the G7 when it comes to this just constantly saving with asking themselves why. The government buys all of their really low coupon bonds and they’re always in this state, the same state they’ve been in for 10 years, right?
43:14 Massive debt, economy at a standstill. What did you see when you went there? I think they entered a depression in 1990. Wow. And well you know the carry trade they were printing all this money and people were borrowing in yen buying dollars and so the bond market is in ser as I was going to ask you about that because I see the biggest problem in the world today is the bond market not the stock market because the stock market’s big but in my opinion the bond market is 10 times bigger and deeper.
43:50 Yeah. And when the Chinese and Japanese and people start dumping our bonds to buy gold, what is that? What’s what’s that going to the US dollar? What do you know about the bond market and as far as I’m dumping our US bonds? Yeah.
44:08 Brian Rose: Well, everybody’s watching that 10-year note and that 30-year note kind of creep up. it was kind of going one way when the original tariff negotiations happened and everyone thought, you know, they could refinance the 10-year note at 4%, but now it’s going the other way and people are very concerned about what’s going on. So, I think you’re right, Robert. I think we really have to worry about what’s going on with those bonds. Of course, everyone thinks that maybe, you know, the stable coins in crypto could be a new buyer of those Treasury assets, but that’s probably only a temporary fix to the structural problem.
44:42 Robert Kiyosaki: The problem, Brian, is what happens to the people. You and I are okay. And you know, you and I work for the people. It disturbs me. It really disturbs me.
44:55 And then, yeah. It’s uninformed. Or maybe they don’t care. Or I got into this guy with four daughters and he says, “So what?” I said, “Who’s going to teach your daughters if you don’t teach them to school?”
45:10 I mean, I’m going and he knows nothing. So I if you if I had kids, I’d be terrified, you know, going what do I teach my kids today? I ask you and I have been on that one for a long time.
45:24 Brian Rose: Yeah. And look, for me, it’s important because my first son, Kaden, just turned nine and his brother is about to turn eight.
45:34 And so we’re starting to have these conversations and they ask questions. Obviously, they play cash flow game, which is great, but they also own Bitcoin, both of them. And I’m using this digital asset, something they’re familiar with because they play video games. I always joke my seven-year-old kid has more digital assets than Michael Saylor. I mean, he’s got, you know, and he trades them and he’s really comfortable.
45:56 So, if they can own some Bitcoin, Robert, and they can watch the price continuing to go up as it has just hit an all-time high a week or two ago at 112. A lot of people are predicting 125,150, 180K, 200K even this year. If they can watch that go up and understand structurally that there’s two things going on, not only is Bitcoin becoming more valuable, but the dollar is becoming less valuable. And if they can start to see that, I think it’s maybe one of the quickest ways people can learn about what you’re talking about, Robert.
46:27 Maybe that’s one of the reasons you were attracted to Bitcoin early on. You were a very early adopter that shocked a lot of people, Robert.
46:36 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, this guy Buckminster Fuller, he was a futurist, built the GS and domes and all this stuff And he predicted Bitcoin years ago. Wow. He was watching kids play video games and he saw the score and he says that’s the future of money.
46:52 Brian Rose: I mean, he was so prescient so far ahead of his time. I still remember him saying that’s the future of money. It’s called blockchain. Wow. Wow.
47:02 Robert Kiyosaki: He was way ahead of his time. So, I just kind of tagged along with this, you know. Test test test test as speculative, but I’m glad I bought some. You know.
47:12 Brian Rose: You know, I know one an incredible macro investor and a big investor in Bitcoin.
47:17 His name is Dan Tapiero. You would love him. I’ll introduce you to him one day. And he goes around the world trying to explain blockchain and Bitcoin to the average person, including traditional investors, because he’s run multi-billion dollar funds. And a lot of times he’s got pension funds that give him money.
47:34 And he said, “Brian, the single biggest determinant of who can understand Bitcoin, it’s not the university they went to. It’s not how much money they have. It’s not the connections. It’s their age.” And he said, “If they’re over 50, they struggle.
47:47 If they’re under 50, they have a chance. If they’re under 30, they really can get it.” And that’s why I think everyone was blown away when you came out, Robert, and said, “Yeah, I see Bitcoin. I get it. I’m going in.”
47:59 And you said this 3, four, five years ago and you were the only guy who’s been around that was doing that and all the other folks, you know, the Buffets and the Mungers were calling it rat poison and yet you really understood it right away. Is that because you saw it as a real asset or also because of Buckminster Fuller kind of gave you that heads up?
48:19 Robert Kiyosaki: It was kind of bucky. Okay. You know what I mean?
48:22 It was I had to just trust it. But even now, you know, I entered at 6,000. Okay. And no matter what you enter at, you go, I should have bought more. Yeah.
48:36 Brian Rose: So many people, they don’t buy, Robert, because they think they’re buying too high when they don’t realize that based on everything that Robert Kiyosaki’s been telling us for 30 years is it’s going up by definition because it’s priced currently in fiat. Sometime in the future, we won’t even quote Bitcoin in fiat because it’ll the number will be like the Zimbabwe dollars, right? We’ll just call it a Bitcoin because it’ll be more maybe the monetary system.
49:00 But right now, you shouldn’t worry that hundreds 100k is too high. Michael Saylor says it’s going to 13 million each by the time in 15 years. So, yeah, you’re right, Robert. People should get some now. And you can buy 50 bucks of Bitcoin easy.
49:18 You can buy a 100 bucks of Bitcoin. And I think if anybody is feeling like they’re they’ve missed the boat or they’re one of these people Robert’s talking about that struggles with basic goods, buying a little bit of crypto or Bitcoin, I think is a good start to just start educating yourself about asset ownership. Yeah.
49:38 Robert Kiyosaki: You know, it’s just like I went down to the coin dealer yesterday and I bought, you know, a silver eagle and it was $34, but I think you and I remember when it was 50 and the Hunt brothers tried to corner the market on silver.
49:52 So, silver is still 60% below it alltime high and gold went to alltime high. Bitcoin is going to all-time high. So, I’ I’ve been telling people that silver is the biggest bargain of all right now. But they go, “Well, how is it going to make me rich?” I said, “Doesn’t make you rich.
50:11 It just keeps your wealth.”. Yeah. It holds your wealth for you. Yeah. about it.
50:17 Brian Rose: You know. One thing I found interesting, the Bitcoin conference was last week in Vegas, and it’s wild, Robert, because you see these young kids get on stage, people that have been on my show, like Dylan, who actually runs a Bitcoin treasury strategy for a Japanese company called Metaplanet. And since they since they’ve been buying Bitcoin, their stock is up like 7x. Obviously Michael Saylor spoke, but he’s a little older. A woman named Lyn Alden spoke as well.
50:45 And Robert, they give these most incredibly detailed presentations about what you’re talking about, about how there’s too much money being printed and it’s never going to be reversed. And it’s just so beautiful to see these young people up there that have really educated themselves and are now telling the world exactly what’s wrong with our monetary system. But they’re able to do that, Robert, probably because they read your books and also because they look at it through the lens of Bitcoin.
51:13 And Bitcoin is a beautiful thing because it’s just this real asset that everyone can kind of anchor it to, compare to, look through the lens. And some of these presentations, if you see them, you would be blown away. I think you’d be really proud because these people have actually educated themselves outside of the school system and they get it. And young people like to learn from young people. And when they see a 25-year-old kid on the stage or a 30-year-old explaining this, I don’t know.
51:39 I feel like we’re already on our way. Robert.
51:42 Robert Kiyosaki: Yeah. It’s but it’s our generation, the boomer generation that is, you know, they’re they’re still hanging on to their 401k and they’re, you know, 6040 60% equities, 40% bonds and I’m watching this bond market collapse and the if the bond market keeps collapsing, it’s going to take some banks with them. So there a lot of banks in trouble right now.
52:05 So that was what 2023 you know several Silicon Valley bank went down and all that and. Yeah credit was the Credit Suisse. Anyway Swedish Swiss bank went
52:16 Brian Rose: Yeah yeah I think Credit Suisse was faltering. The Silicon Valley bank was shocking and scary when that happened And that was real close I mean they went in and bailed that thing out wasn’t obvious they were going to bail it out I still remember that Sunday night and that had all the Silicon Valley money there would have caused some serious disruptions.
52:40 Yeah, there’s some scary times ahead. Robert, when you look at artificial intelligence, how do you feel about it? Do you think this changes anything in the economy? Does it change things going forward? I’m just kind of curious what your take on it is.
52:57 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, I again, I listen to the younger guys. I went to this conference and this kid is like 25 years old and he did the best explanation of AI I’ve ever heard but it was completely over my head but Rickards wrote this book here money GPT. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
53:16 It’s great. I advise it but it’s how AI is going to bring down the banking system.
53:24 Brian Rose: Yeah. I had Rickards on to talk about that book. He’s one of our our great mutual friends, a big fan, amazing man.
53:34 But he I think the thesis of that book is that artificial intelligence is going to magnify some of these trading decisions and make decisions that a human would not make because a human might know better and like you said blow up the system quicker because AI is involved than it would if just human traders were there. I think that’s roughly the premise.
53:55 Robert Kiyosaki: That’s what that’s why, you know, I’m an old guy, so I just keep it really simple. I just say buy gold, silver, and just go straight to commodities.
54:04 I own cattle. You know, I don’t kill the cattle. I sell the semen. So, they’re they’re woo bulls. So, there’s cash flow and there’s sperm flow.
54:19 Brian Rose: Robert, you always have the most interesting angles. And so, Robert, I was texting, we were texting back and forth, you and me, the last couple months, and you’re like, Brian, I’m on a world tour going second time around the world. Like, Robert, what’s a few months in your life look like? What are you doing? And why are you still doing it?
54:39 You are you just still out there trying to educate the masses. It seems like you’re going to every single continent. What does it look like to look into your life?
54:48 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, it’s called mission. You know, I went to I remember I’m a US Marine and mission always came first and our mission is like you.
54:56 We are to serve. We can make there’s many ways you can make money but how do I best serve my fellow human being or my country? And so that’s why I went to Vietnam although didn’t have to go but I came to serve. I went to service academy. So I think we’re we’re forgetting the essence of service versus money.
55:16 So I go and teach as long as somebody wants me to teach. Like I was just in Dubai and I sat there looking at that place going, “Oh my god.” But you know, I said, “Well, that’s US dollars coming in via oil money, right? That that flows back into Dubai.” And so I was sitting at this table and there was these working girls and I thought, you know, I’m going to watch how these working girls work.
55:44 Brian, I laughed my ass off. The first thing they do was they got a guy’s wrist and went like this and they checked his watch. They want to know what brand he was wearing. And then they opened his collar and his shirt like here and they want to know what brand the shirt was. Well, they weren’t going to talk to him.
56:04 I fell off the table laughing. I mean, even the hookers are into the money.
56:11 Brian Rose: Everybody’s making money in Dubai. That’s for sure. Right.
56:17 And if if you don’t have money, they don’t want to talk to you. It’s probably just like the oil boom in West Texas back in the day, right? Probably similar characters, maybe dressed up a little bit better with some beaches, right?
56:31 Robert Kiyosaki: I’ll tell you one more story about I was, you know, being an entrepreneur, always looking for cash myself. I went to Silicon Valley when it was just starting out and I’m sitting at a bar, you know, in San Jose or some place and there’s this gorgeous woman sitting next to me.
56:47 So, I’m sitting there talking to her and I said, “So, what’s your business plan?” She says, “I’m going to marry three rich guys and take their money.” I mean, she was crystal in her financial plan. I mean, crystal clear. And she looked at me, she says, “Don’t worry.
57:02 I know I know you’re not rich.” I said, “Why? You have cheap shoes on. That rich men all have expensive shoes.
57:11 Brian Rose: This is why I love this is why I love talking to you, Robert, because I always know you’re going to hit me with a zinger on this show.
57:22 So, last time you pulled out your 44 Magnum and this time you’re telling me some of the details, which is great. What do you do you like Dubai? You like going there? Do you think it’s a great place for entrepreneurs? What are your thoughts of Middle East?
57:35 Robert Kiyosaki: They’re different. Everybody’s got to go see that place. Yeah. They really have it’s a whole new world as you know. Yeah.
57:42 You know, there’s a and I and from there I went to Uzbekistan and that was fascinating because I met the Donald Trump of Uzbekistan and he just goes he says I built all those buildings there. I mean the power of communism is what I’m getting at. M. If you’re one of these what do you call them oligarchs their power is immense also saw in just traveling you get to see the world that most people the average you know sitting in Tucson Arizona they don’t see. Yeah and you like.
58:20 Brian Rose: And you like doing it because you like to teach you like to learn are you restless like if you had to stay at home for a year would you go crazy Robert
58:30 Robert Kiyosaki: I just it’s I when I get a call to teach just like you. I will I’ll go teach.
58:34 Brian Rose: Yeah. You said you told you sent me a text. You said 1,800 participants picture to follow.
58:40 I mean, I’ve seen you like fill a room to the brim. People really want to learn, don’t they?
58:46 Robert Kiyosaki: And we play the cash flow board game because as Maria Montessori, you know, the great educational entrepreneurs is what the hand does, the mind remembers. So by playing the game, it rearranges your neural pathways up here. But if you sit and just listen to a lecture, you don’t learn anything goes in one ear, out the other.
59:08 But by having to fill out financial statements and move move pieces around the board and all this, your hands and your brain then coordinate to change the neural pathways up here. Yeah. So I learned I learned most playing Monopoly, you know, four green houses, red hotel. So I own red hotels all over the place. I was a kid.
59:26 I didn’t know any I didn’t know any better. You know. So.
59:29 Brian Rose: But it planted that seed inside your head and you could use it later. I actually met a woman in Dubai that saw the both of us present in the Excel Center a year year and a half ago and she came up to me and said, “Brian, you were on stage with Robert blah blah blah blah blah.”
59:45 So, it’s just amazing. And the other thing about Dubai I like Robert is that it attracts people who have an entrepreneurial mindset because everybody goes to Dubai with an intention. Whether you’re one of the girls at those tables you mentioned or you’re a taxi driver or you’re a builder or you’re an entrepreneur or a Bitcoin person, you go there, leave your country because you know you’re going to make more money, more opportunity. So, everyone there hustles.
1:00:10 Everyone there moves fast and it’s a refreshing place to be. When I come back to London, I see a bunch of zombies, Robert, but in Dubai, I feel like the energy and it feels like my people. Do do you feel that too?
1:00:55 Robert Kiyosaki: I tell you what, when they open up you, they want to check your watch and then you your collar, they’re in there for the money, you know. I loved it.
1:01:26 I had I had such a good time there. But you’ve got to see it. You know what I mean? You got to see it before it’s the new world right now. Yeah.
1:01:33 Brian Rose: It is. It’s beautiful to know a place like that exists because if you spent your time in the States and in Europe and someone said there’s this magical place where you can go where there’s zero taxes, there’s no crime, everything’s clean and you can do what people want to do, which is build your business and raise your family how you want to. People be like, “That’s impossible. That would never work. What are you talking about?”
1:01:56 But then when you go there, you realize it is possible. And the people that are there that they’re happy to be there and all you have to do is follow rules. The same rules you would follow if someone invited you over to their house for dinner. Guess what you do? You don’t spray paint the place.
1:02:12 You know, you don’t camp out in their family room. You don’t spit their food out. You just treat it with respect. And if you don’t want to be in the house anymore, you leave. And that’s what I tell people in Dubai.
1:02:22 Just treat it as if you’re going to someone’s house and say, “Thank you. I appreciate that.” And then everything’s fine. And the thing that’s interesting about Dubai, there’s so much money. Their ideas are bigger.
1:02:35 Robert Kiyosaki: Like I don’t Did you hear Did you just see that project, The Trench or something like that?
1:02:41 Brian Rose: Oh, I think I’ve just seen it published, right?
1:02:44 Robert Kiyosaki: It’s like. They’re big trench so big that it’ll be a whole ecosystem going across the desert way. Yeah.
1:02:50 It’s like a big garden ecosystem or something. Something like that.
1:02:54 Brian Rose: Yeah. Yeah, but they’re. Because they have so much money.
1:02:57 Their ideas, They think so. They think so big, Robert. Like when I stay in JBR right next to the palm and I do my walks in the morning, you know, just to get my mind right in the morning and I just look around and I’m like, look at the vision here and the execution. It’s the most man-made beachfront property in, you know, in human history and probably will be for a long time. These guys think big and it puts the reflection right back to me and saying, “Well, what are you doing today?”
1:03:23 You know, so the other thing about Dubai, Robert, is that if you think you’re rich in Arizona or California or New York, go to Dubai because you’re nothing in Dubai. I know a guy who has some Bugattis there and he put a video out the other day when he showed his Bugatti and he showed some other cars and he said in Dubai there’s always someone with a bigger one. And so it’s very humbling even if you think you’re a successful entrepreneur because there’s people in Dubai that are on a level 10 or a hundred times more than you.
1:03:53 And if you’re the kind of person that’s not intimidated by that that actually is motivated by that then it’s a beautiful place to go because you’re you’re being pushed constantly. How big can you go? How big can you dream? And that’s what happens. Anybody listen to this?
1:04:09 If you had a hundred billion dollars, you can’t say I can’t afford it. And then the question would be what are you going to do and there’s no constraint. There’s no we can’t afford to do something.
1:04:21 Robert Kiyosaki: Their ideas are so much bigger. The people I was talking to, you know, we can do this, we can do that because there’s so much money driving it.
1:04:29 So, it was refreshing as compared to you listening to some other people on well, you should live below your means, you know, and get your 401k. Yeah. 6040. So different. It’s so different.
1:04:43 And the government runs it like a business. And if you don’t get the job done, they don’t they don’t slack on deadlines. If you don’t get the job done, you get fired. And they’re constantly getting customer feedback, which you would think for a government would not be doing that. Compare it to an American government.
1:04:58 They run it like a business and they’re and they’re serious about those marks. Again, just the opposite of what most governments do. Going to Dubai took the brakes off of my brain, if you know what I mean. Yeah. Yeah.
1:05:12 Cuz I go, can I afford it? Can I afford it? Can I Well, how much does that going to cost me? You know, I you don’t have those brakes on your brains in Dubai. Yeah.
1:05:21 Brian Rose: You know, I quote you all the time, Robert, to my students and I say, Robert Robert Kiyosaki said to me once, he said, “Brian, a poor person says, I can’t afford it.” A statement closes the mind. You said this to me in our interview in Phoenix, and then you said, “A rich person says, how can I afford it?” A question opens the mind. And I always tell them, Robert doesn’t mean rich on paper.
1:05:49 That rich person might have zero dollars in their account, but they’re thinking rich. And the poor person could have a million dollars in their account, but they’re thinking in a poor manner. And that’s one of the many lessons I learned from you, Robert.
1:06:04 Robert Kiyosaki: And it’s even worse than that. A lot of your parents like, you know, like most professional athletes, they’re millionaires at 25 and bankrupt 10 years later.
1:06:13 Right? So money doesn’t make a poor person rich. If you can understand that.
1:06:20 Brian Rose: Wow. Wow.
1:06:21 Yeah. That’s heavy. That’s heavy. And that’s why you I think you get so angry when you talk about your friend that’s not educating his four daughters because you know that even with his wealth and all that, that’s not going to save them cuz they’re going to go on their own journeys. And the best way to make them rich is to educate them, right?
1:06:42 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, who’s who’s responsible for your child’s education? But you. Yeah. It’s not a rich man, but he doesn’t care. I’m like.
1:06:49 Brian Rose: Yeah. Teaching your kids. So, my other favorite Robert Kiyosaki quote that I tell my students all the time, Robert, is you said this to me once. You said the difference between a rich person and a poor person is their relationship with fear. That’s heavy.
1:07:08 What do you mean by that, Robert?
1:07:11 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, we have four intelligences. Okay. We have mental, physical, emotional, spiritual. So you have mental IQ, physical IQ, spiritual IQ, and emotional IQ.
1:07:26 But for most people when it comes to money, the relationship with fear. You know, fear stops most people from going for their dreams and it limits them. You know, what if I fail? What if what if I make a mistake? What if I do this?
1:07:40 That’s all fear-based thinking versus, you know, and that’s why I really didn’t like school because my rich dad just taught me make a mistake and learn from it. But many people make no mistakes and learn nothing. And there’s a lot of those today. You know, the gap between rich and poor is so wide today. And I think a lot of people are just afraid of making a mistake, which is a mistake.
1:08:06 Brian Rose: Yeah. So, it’s fear-based. Yeah. In school, we get punished for making a mistake. The other thing about school, Robert, I think you told me this, is that we’re forced to compete with our classmates, which is the opposite of how people win in the real world.
1:08:21 Peter Thiel, famous investor, he has a great book with a title. I love the title of his book, Competition is for Losers, you know, and it’s got a little word play there, but you’ve been saying this forever, right? Like in the real world, people collaborate, right?
1:08:42 Robert Kiyosaki: Like I have a very very smart team. I have a great accountants, attorneys, real estate guys, systems guys, and they’re my team.
1:08:52 I couldn’t do it by myself. Whereas a student like a doctor a lot of times is I’m going to do it by myself. I’m going to do it by myself. I remember once I was in this bar in Hawaii and there was this doctor there and he opened up his little box. He had some rare coin there like you know numismmetic gold coin and he put it down and he was talking about it and he opened up again the coin was gone.
1:09:25 So we’re all staying at the bar going I didn’t take it. I didn’t take it. I didn’t take it. And my friend, this guy named Jim, really, really rich guy. He says, “Don’t worry about it.
1:09:35 He’s a doctor. He feels guilty about the money he makes, so he’s going to lose it.” I said, “But you know, you hang out with wise people. I mean like this guy I forget his name Jim something but he was just brilliant brilliant entrepreneur and he had his kind of eye for everything about your money you’ll lose it.
1:10:00 Brian Rose: Robert, you mentioned that spiritual intelligence.
1:10:04 It’s something that I think you’re the only one I’ve heard talk about it. And these days, we’ve heard about obviously just the IQ, the intelligence. We’ve heard people talk about emotional intelligence these days. Can you read a room and read how people feel? But and physical intelligence, I think we understand that some people really have that that gift or that understanding of the physical world and their body.
1:10:27 But the spiritual, can you talk a little bit more about that?
1:10:32 Robert Kiyosaki: Well, what does God want done? When I was studying with Buckminster Fuller, this guy here, you know, this is 81, I think, and he says, “What’s your purpose in life, young man?” And I said, “Get rich.” He says, “It’s a waste of a good mind, you know.”
1:10:53 He says, “Ask yourself this. What does God want done? Go do that.” And I went, it took me a while, but that’s where Rich Dad Poor Dad came out. I said, God wants me to teach what my rich dad taught me.
1:11:12 And then Martin Luther King said it all. So he said, Martin Luther King says, I just want to do God’s will. That’s spiritual intelligence. That can you say, well, I would do God’s will, but I got to make a I have to earn a living. You know, that’s not spiritual at that point.
1:11:29 So that’s how I took the whole thing and you know studying with Fuller was just he says do what God wants done. Wow. And I became a teacher.
1:11:39 Brian Rose: Did Did it take Did it take you a while, Robert, to click on the what does God want you to do? Because you probably were so fixated on I want to get rich first.
1:11:51 Did it really take you a while to make that adjustment?
1:11:55 Robert Kiyosaki: Took. Me a long time, Brian. You know, I was still doing my real estate development and all this and and I love it. I like real estate.
1:12:04 I was having a good time. But that haunted me. What does God want done? And one night I was at, you know, down by two on the Mexican border in Bisbee, Arizona. And I’m sitting in a jail.
1:12:20 John Wayne owned the jail down there, the old Bisbee jail. And he rented it out. So I’m living in the Bisbee jail. And I sat there at night and the question kept saying, “What does God want done?” And one night I just it just came out and said, “I had a rich dad and I had a poor dad.”
1:12:38 And that’s where the book came from.
1:12:40 Brian Rose: And you said that to yourself. You just said, “I had a rich dad and I had a poor dad.” It just came to you.
1:12:47 Robert Kiyosaki: I was just typing.
1:12:48 Brian Rose: Wow. In John Wayne’s jail.
1:12:51 Robert Kiyosaki: Yeah. It’s a Bisbee jail, but he owned it. And it was a neat jail, you know, upstairs, downstairs, had a kitchen.
1:13:02 Brian Rose: And it came to you and you kind of knew this was kind of God telling you what to do.
1:13:07 Robert Kiyosaki: It just came true.
1:13:08 Brian Rose: Wow. Wow. Man, I always I always get jealous when you tell me these moments where I wish I was hanging out with you at the bar in Hawaii and the John Wayne jail, Robert, the place in Zimbabwe and in Dubai.
1:13:21 But we’ll do more of that in the future. You know, I don’t know if I ever told you this, Robert, but I was a lot like you in my 20s and 30s. If you ask me what I wanted to do, it was to get as rich as possible. That was something ever since I was a little kid. My brother, not so much.
1:13:38 My sister, not so much. Me, that was my focus. And when I got to 40 years old, Robert, after I tried to do that and was reasonably successful in banking, I got to 40 and I looked around and I finally realized that the money wasn’t making me happy. In fact, I was alone, no family, drinking myself to death. And I finally clicked in my brain that this is not working.
1:14:04 And I quit my job and I started London Real. And that was, I believe. God’s calling. Yeah. Yeah.
1:14:14 What God wants. Yeah. And it took me 40 years cuz I got a thick head probably like you, Robert. And but then once I saw it, because of the same thick head, I just went all in. And even though in the beginning, Robert, it wasn’t a business, it wasn’t making money, it didn’t even make sense to anybody around me, I could tell that my life was improving like tenfold and I was just happier and I was just amazing things were happening to me and I was just in this flow and I had viewers and students and I just I kept going because of that positive feedback.
1:14:53 Right? So you know we can ask our listeners right now what does God want done and it’s a question worth asking and it’s not it doesn’t come it might come easy
1:15:05 Robert Kiyosaki: but it didn’t come easy for me because being a teacher was the last thing I hated school just hated it.
1:15:12 Brian Rose: And you come you come from a family of teachers and you were suspicious of that right so
1:15:19 Robert Kiyosaki: How do I how do I make money as a teacher what’s the problem
1:15:23 Brian Rose: Well, you figured it out somehow. Do do you think when you stop focusing on how to make money and do what God wants you to do that in a weird way, the money flows on the back of that?
1:15:37 Robert Kiyosaki: But I practice what I teach also. There’s a you know, there’s a difference. You and I are in this business. There’s a lot of people who are preachers but not teachers. Yeah.
1:15:45 They tell you what to do. They don’t do it themselves. So, I made an agreement with myself. Anything I wrote about, I had to have done it first. So there had to be some integrity in the words which is spiritual, you know.
1:15:59 So when I say I yesterday I bought silver, I bought silver yesterday, you know, Cuz it hit 35 bucks a coin. So. Probably going to 70 this year. I love it. It’s a game, you know.
1:16:14 Brian Rose: I love it. I love it. I’ll have to get. I teach I believe when we sat down in Phoenix and had that long discussion, you said to emphasize, you said it’s not about what you want to do. That doesn’t matter.
1:16:28 It’s what God wants you to do. And almost by definition, that’s not going to be what you want to do because you’re so focused on you. You’re so focused on this myopic world. You’re so focused on probably all the nonsense you’ve been taught. You need to actually tune into what God wants you to do and it’s it in the beginning it’s going to be uncomfortable and maybe it’s not going to make a lot of sense but that’s the path that’s like Martin Luther King I just want to do God’s will you know and that he carried him to great man so I think that’s a calling for all of us I believe we all have a calling but we don’t always follow it.
1:17:15 Yeah. Yeah. And I think if you don’t follow it, your calling will start following you and torturing you, I think. And you’ll get as you get older cuz every year you don’t take take that calling and take action is a year less you have. And as you go more and more, you’ll find, I think, your world kind of shrinking if you’re not following that God’s path.
1:17:38 And hopefully that pushes you to wake up and realize or people can just listen to us now and start thinking about it. And again, if you have a hang up with the word God, replace that with, you know, all powerful, with energy, with whatever. But I think we all kind of know what that means now, right? The right thing to do perhaps.
1:17:57 Robert Kiyosaki: But, you know, Fuller called it the great spirit.
1:18:00 Brian Rose: Ah, okay.
1:18:01 Robert Kiyosaki: The American Indian called it the great spirit. Yeah. And we all tuned into that. But it’s interesting that I said, “Well, what does God want done?”
1:18:14 And then I saw the poverty and all this stuff. I said, “But I’m solving my problem. Maybe I solve everybody else’s problem, too.” So that’s why I created the board game. Wow.
1:18:24 Brian Rose: I love it. And a lot of people don’t know the board game came before the book. And then the book when it got famous, it sold the board game. Is that right? Wild.
1:18:37 Robert Kiyosaki: And now the board game is in the happiest time was this trip I was in the board game is now in Arabic. So it’s going into the Muslim world And that makes me very very happy because if we can promote peace and prosperity via education not warfare. And so I have I have friends who are Muslim or teachers and they go around the world teaching Muslims. That makes me the happiest. The book’s now in Arabic.
1:19:10 So rich dad put us in Arabic. That’s good. You know I love. And that’s when the spirit of God comes through and go thank you. And there people just voluntarily want to do it too.
1:19:21 I’m not paying them. They just want to do it. They want to teach. So, you know.
1:19:28 Brian Rose: Robert, what are the next, year look like for you or two?
1:19:33 You’re always working on some companies. You’re always doing something there. Are you going to keep traveling the world? You’re going to keep teaching. What’s on your what’s on your horizon?
1:19:43 Robert Kiyosaki: I think this is my last hard year and then I’m going to paperback. But, you know, my age is creeping up. I can feel it in my bones.
1:19:53 Brian Rose: I don’t see it. You look younger than me, Robert.
1:19:57 Making me look bad. without questions.
1:20:20 Robert Kiyosaki: It’s I just want to do God’s will. It’ll it’ll come. Okay.
1:20:54 It’s not for me to decide, Brian, is what I’m trying to say.
1:20:58 Brian Rose: Yeah. All right. But that typically manifests itself in teaching and walking the walking the walk. So, building the companies that get you more real assets, right?
1:21:08 That’s what you do.
1:21:10 Robert Kiyosaki: I can’t help but make assets. Yeah. It’s automatic to me. I.
1:21:14 Brian Rose: Think you do it in your sleep.
1:21:16 Robert Kiyosaki: I just sit there and I read spiritual books too, not only finance books, but it says that just follow your calling. What are you supposed to do and don’t don’t fight it. You know what I mean? Yeah.
1:21:30 So, I’m just saying, okay, so this that was this morning’s lesson. Just keep going, but something else is coming along. Trust that.
1:21:38 Brian Rose: That’s amazing. You know, Robert, I wanted to tell you I thought about you about three weeks ago in Dubai.
1:21:44 I had my very first boxing match. And I had been training martial arts for over 20 years, but I had never actually gone into the ring and that always used to eat at me. And I’m not getting any younger. I just turned 54 and I decided I was going to jump in with a real boxing match, no head gear, and they shipped in some 28-year-old punk kid from London. They wanted to knock my block off.
1:22:09 Robert Kiyosaki: All right. And at the What’s that in Dubai?
1:22:11 Brian Rose: Yeah. It’s actually called Crypto Fight Night. They do they kind of follow the crypto events around the world.
1:22:17 It’s come quite popular. And so at the weigh-ins he comes in and we’re facing off and he just pushes me and like tries to attack me. So like he’s going crazy on me, Robert. And I’m thinking to myself, what the hell am I doing? Like you know, like what did I get myself into?
1:22:32 And 24 hours before the fight, I started to really, you know, ask myself hard questions like what am I doing? I went to a dark place. And your quote resonated in my mind. The difference between a rich person and a poor person is their relationship with fear. Now, in this case, rich and poor didn’t mean monetary per se, but it meant the kind of life I’m going to live.
1:22:55 And I knew that if I could get through this hurdle and show up in that ring that I would be a richer person somehow. And Robert, you know, it was live stream around the world. My kids are watching. Everybody’s watching, but I’m going in and this is the guy that could take out, you know, the mayor of London, Brian Rose, right? This, this, this.
1:23:17 And he said before, I’m going to take everything away from you. And so I’m leaving my flat that night, Robert, and I’m thinking, I’m am I going to wake up in a hospital? You know what’s going to happen? I don’t know. Getting in was probably one of the harder things I ever did.
1:23:28 But as soon as that bell rang and a couple of my shots landed, I was like, “Okay, I got this.” And we went three hard rounds. It was amazing. But like something changed in me that night. And by going through that fear, I became kind of a rich man somehow.
1:23:47 And I was thinking a lot about you. So, thank you for that, Robert.
1:23:51 Robert Kiyosaki: Thank you. That’s very stoic. You know what I mean?
1:23:54 I’m just going to get through it. Yeah.
1:23:56 Brian Rose: Yeah. It was and I in retrospect, Robert, I’m so glad that he pushed me in the weigh-ins and he dialed it up because it meant the payout was all the better. And now in the future when I’m in a fearful situation, I can always go back to this and say, you know what, it’s it’s going to play out just like this did.
1:24:14 My brain’s going to put all these fears in my head. It’s going to try to talk me out of doing this and play small like so many people do with their wealth, right? They play small. They’re scared of everything and they just do whatever they were taught. Or you could push through it and realize that 99% of that is just nonsense.
1:24:32 It’s a very low probability of happening and we’re only going to learn by taking action. And so now I’ve got this lesson in my back pocket and it’s going to make me richer and it’s going to make me a better teacher and it’s going to help me impact the world more. So yeah, thanks Robert.
1:24:48 Robert Kiyosaki: Congratulations, man. That’s stepping into the W.
1:24:51 Anybody ever stepped into that ring, that’s a big step.
1:24:54 Brian Rose: And now I got the bug. I think I’m gonna do a rematch now in October. I want to go back in again because I see this as a growth opportunity. Who knows, Robert, maybe this is what God wants me to do, you know, because a lot of people watch that and they get inspired by that.
1:25:11 So many people, I’m talking about old ladies as well, were like, “Brian, knock him out.” And everybody had a position and they were looking at that. And a lot of people came up to me and said, “Brian, I’m 40 years old and if you can do that, what can I do?” And it was just amazing. So, in a weird way, Robert, maybe that is what God wanted me to do is just go do that.
1:25:30 And the downside, okay, some things could have happened to me, but the upside was so much more. So, look, I’m still learning. And yeah, Robert, I just want to say that I really cherish our friendship and I just so glad the world gave us Robert Kiyosaki. And like I said, so many people around the world appreciate you. I think you know that.
1:25:51 But I just always want to report back whenever I mention your name and I mention you in all sorts of circles. Everybody just says, “Oh, wow.” They know who you are and they have tremendous respect for you because you taught them something. You gave them something that they know is real. Just like the assets you tell us to invest in.
1:26:11 They know what you tell them is real. It’s like like you said, Rickard said, you don’t need a PhD in finance to know that the book Rich Dad Poor Dad is talking about real. And people get that. Yeah.
1:26:26 Robert Kiyosaki: Oh, thank you, my friend.
1:26:28 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We’re doing God’s will by teaching.
1:26:31 Brian Rose: It’s so true.
1:26:32 It’s so true. Robert, I can’t wait to see you again. Let’s do this in person next time. For people, they should follow you on X, right? That’s where they get you put a lot of your stuff.
1:26:41 That’s where you post about what you’re doing. It’s the real Kiyosaki, right? .
1:26:48 Robert Kiyosaki: Yeah. It’s we just keep going.
1:26:50 That’s all there is.
1:26:51 Brian Rose: I know. And when I see your smile, I’m just going to think about how I can keep going. So, yeah, Robert, thanks for putting the word out there for everybody here. Please go out, just buy some real assets.
1:27:02 Even if it’s a tiny little bit, it’ll start you on that path and go look into a few of these things. And also strap in and be ready for what’s coming. So, thanks, Robert. I appreciate you. I hope to see you soon as well.
1:27:15 Robert Kiyosaki: God’s work. Let’s go do God’s work.
1:27:29 Brian Rose: All right, everybody. Thank you so much.
