Nomi Prins - 25 Cent Contracts: How To Trade Before 10am & Beat The Markets

Full transcript: Nomi Prins on London Real

3:26 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Nomi Prins, the former Wall Street banker turned investigative journalist, financial expert, and speaker. You have worked at some of the most powerful banks on Wall Street, including Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns. You’ve been a television commentator for the BBC, CNN and CNBC.

3:50 And your work as an investigative journalist has been featured in The New York Times, Forbes and Fortune magazine. You’re also a bestselling author with your latest book, Collusion, How Central Bankers Rigged the World, Shedding Light on the Dark Conspiracies Between Private and Public Banking. Nomi, welcome to London Real. Thank you so much, Brian. It’s so exciting to always be in London, but particularly to be here with you at London Real because we do share so many background similarities.

4:18 I know, and I want to get into all that today. What’s it like being in London, I guess, for you being back in London because you came here for the financial markets even before I did back in 97? Yeah, actually, I was here from 93 through 2000. So I was here during the initial steps towards the EU when Britain was talking about what the role would be relative to the rest of Europe and all the conversations from a trade and market and banking and geopolitical perspective back then.

4:46 And now we’re sort of in a different manifestation of that with conversations about what’s going on in the EU, the economies, Brexit and so forth. So it’s like a bit of a time loop. So every time I come back to London, it’s a little bit of a mini time loop. I do get back here several times a year to work on things, but it always feels like coming home. Even though I only lived here seven, eight years, it always feels like a second home to me.

5:10 Yeah, no, I remember that time. People don’t remember in the early 90s, no one knew if the euro would happen, if the European Union would happen. It was still kind of a dream. And all the currencies were all over the place. They all had different interest rates, usually really high.

5:25 And then they all kind of started converging. Well, I mean, you got to see all that happen. And now some fallout from that happening, right? Yeah, it’s really interesting because back then, like being inside a bank at the time, and I was working for Bear Stearns, but of course being part of banking in general, in the city of London in general, you know, all my friends were in banking. That was all the conversation that was going on. It was convergence trades and what would happen to the European currencies and nations and bond markets when they converged into each other and how the UK and Britain would be a part of that or not a part of that and what the sort of thoughts were on all sides. And it’s really interesting because back then it was about, OK, what’s the trade as well as what’s happening politically.

6:04 And now that I’m somewhat outside of certainly working within the banking system, it’s more like I can be an observer as well in terms of what’s going on. And that’s really very interesting because some of the same conversations are going on. Brexit is all about some people not wanting Britain to be a part of the EU, which was exactly the conversation that was going on. In the 90s and some people want it to be, which was exactly the conversation that was going on in the 90s. It’s just that all this other life and stuff and events has happened in between.

6:33 What do you think is going to happen from here with like Britain, the pound sterling and all that stuff? I mean, I don’t want to get too deep into it, but like, what do you think is going to happen to this country and Europe and all that? Well, one thing that’s happened since the referendum in June 2016 for Brexit is that there’s been massive uncertainty, right? There’s been political uncertainty. There’s been a couple of prime ministers along the way. There have been a lot of economic fallout from the uncertainty around that situation.

7:02 What’s trade going to look like? How are companies going to be able to invest? Where are people going to go? Will they be able to go seamlessly back and forth? You know, particularly in service industries and in airlines and in banking and in all these different places.

7:13 And so that uncertainty is really dragged, I think, on Britain as well as in the streets. I was in Birmingham over the weekend, which is where the Industrial Revolution started, like in the world. I mean, it started in Britain and started in Birmingham. And just in a pub with just, you know, regular local people talking about what was going on. And it’s interesting when you get away from newscasters and away from London and away from sort of people that are more sort of talking about things rather than experiencing them on the ground, how things change.

7:43 And those conversations in Birmingham were very much about the uncertainty surrounding how their lives would be with Brexit, without Brexit. You know, not so much who in parliament is doing what, but how does that actually impact their daily lives? Is it going to make the economy harder for them personally? Is it going to be easier? Like, what’s happening? And the drag of it for years has made people very tired on the ground.

8:08 The not knowing has made people very sort of tired on the ground. And that’s one of the reasons, just from a financial perspective, the currency, the pound, has been very depreciated because it doesn’t know what it’s supposed to do. And as a result, investment doesn’t come in here. The pound gets weaker, and that’s what’s happened. Recently, as there’s a possibility that there won’t be a Brexit with no deal that’s kind of been filtering throughout the ether, the pound’s been increasing a little bit.

8:38 And that’s because the pound wants certainty. The pound doesn’t want a crash and burn scenario. The country doesn’t really want a crash and burn scenario, despite what some politicians are saying. So my feeling is that there won’t be a no deal Brexit. There might be a Brexit, but there will be some kind of a deal, even if pieces of it are put on the table with the idea that they can be negotiated later, but still put forth as some kind of a deal.

9:06 Because I just don’t think that the integration between Britain and the EU, because there is so much trade, there is so much of an economic connection with those areas, plus with respect to the rest of the world and what their place is, I don’t think we have a no deal Brexit. You mentioned uncertainty, and that’s such a big thing. And we’ve got an election year. We’ve got always seems like crazy things happen around the world and oil prices and all these things.

9:31 And we actually just got done taping a short piece about something you’ve just come up with, which you call your 25-cent contracts, which I believe is kind of an option play. But you’re really a macro person. I’m just wondering if you could maybe explain just briefly what we talked about. And also, how does that play into this worldwide volatility? And by the way, we taped that piece. It’s not going to be on YouTube or on our website, but there’s a link below.

9:55 It’s LondonReal.tv forward slash NoMe. That’s N-O-M-I if people want to watch it. But what is that all about? Right. So one of the things that I have done since leaving Wall Street, leaving the banking environment from respect to working for any of those institutions is I’ve been writing, I’ve been doing journalism, I’ve been speaking with governments throughout the world and institutions as to how better they can position themselves to help the real economy, to help like real people on the ground.

10:21 So my entire sort of focus has changed to be about that, to exposing what’s wrong and to also helping people on the ground. And one of the things that I actually realized when I left Wall Street is that, you know, you don’t get paid as much, right? I mean, it’s very simple. It’s like there’s a lot of money that’s coming into banking positions that one can make. But when you make the decision, as I did to leave all that, I also want to do my journalism. I want to fund it and things like that.

10:47 So I look very carefully at how I’ve invested the money and protected the money that I’ve made since then so that it can last me, so that I have the freedom to do journalism, to be a whistleblower and so forth. And that freedom is really important to me. So one of the things that I’ve developed in this trading system is I’ve taken sort of the analytical, mathy stuff that I did, the wonky stuff that I did. Which is what your specialty was at these banks. I mean, you ran these big quant departments, what we call these rocket scientists.

11:16 Yes. I mean, that’s why I got recruited at MIT to go to Wall Street at Bankers Trust because they were looking for these math quants. And that’s, you had 30 of them working for you. Yeah. I mean, in London, they were incredibly, you know, gifted intellectually and mathematically and statistically.

11:32 I myself, my graduate degrees are in statistics and operations research, undergrad and math. So that was always, yes, my kind of angle into Wall Street relative to trading or sales, which was some of the other types of jobs on Wall Street. It was always about the math, the trends, the numbers, the securities, and how they behaved under certain conditions. And that’s always what I looked at throughout my entire career on Wall Street. And I also looked at the downside, you know, not what happens if a trade works, but what happens if it doesn’t work.

12:01 What are the risks you should be looking for and how can you best, you know, sort of protect that investment for those risks. And so that’s a lot of what I did. So leaving, I wanted to protect what I had again so that I could continue to do what I do and be free to do that and say what I need to say in the world. But also I’ve realized over the years that people don’t have the same exposure to the sort of bigger trading systems on Wall Street. I mean, yes, they might have a brokerage account, but they don’t really have, you know, the ability to create their own systems.

12:32 And so I looked at, you know, what are some of the ways that I can create something that they can use, like regular people on the ground can use to access some of what Wall Street does all the time. And it’s a little bit like swimming. I mean, I’m a diver and stuff. It’s a little bit like looking at sharks. And, you know, consider Wall Street bankers like sharks, right? I’m sure that’s not a big leap.

12:55 And in the ocean, there are these things called shark scrubbers, right? And they’re actually little fish that look exactly like sharks, but they’re tiny. Yeah, they swim alongside. They swim alongside. They actually suck out the sort of nutrients sometimes from the shark itself, like the sides of the sharks, and they also swim beside them to get those nutrients.

13:18 So they kind of shade the shark as the shark’s moving around doing its thing. But they’re tiny. And so the way I look at systems that can help individual people is that you kind of have to be aware of what the sharks are doing because they’re doing it. They’re moving in the market sense. They’re moving the markets. But also, you can sort of be alongside of them and sort of be observant and sort of extract some of the value from those types of trades, especially when they’re going fast.

13:46 So right now, we have a situation where there’s a lot of volatility in the market. And what I see is momentum, like accelerated speed of how trades are happening, how geopolitics is affecting the market, how the vote on Brexit or something that happened between the trade wars of US and China manifest in the market on a regular ongoing basis. And so to me, how that happens is like those little shark scrubbers that are swimming next to the shark. They watch how the market reacts, like the big sharks, how they’re in there, what they’re doing.

14:15 But they can kind of be a part of it without being in the middle of it. And so that’s what I’ve done in this particular system that I’ve developed with something called 25 Cent Contracts. They’re a very cheap way of taking an investment or taking exposure into the market, particularly in times of volatility, that take into account what the big sharks are doing, that take into account why volatility is happening in a bunch of other parameters, some more analytics, and presents a way for a person to take advantage of that scenario in a cheap way and in a fast way and in an easy way with these 25 Cent Contracts or option contracts, basically.

14:57 And another thing you talk about, we spoke about it in the piece that we recorded earlier, was this whole thing that you trade before 10 a.m. And then I think you said before that like only suckers trade after 10 a.m. But what is the thinking behind that timing and that mentality? Because that’s kind of intriguing for me. So this goes back to how the big institutions and banks trade.

15:17 So what they do is they have much more access to the markets when the markets aren’t open, which a real person wouldn’t necessarily know and doesn’t have access to either. And so their position before the market opens. So for example, if something happens in the Middle East with respect to oil, as it did recently with the Saudi Arabian oil fields being struck by drones, and that has a spike in oil, that has uncertainty in the Middle East, uncertainty with how that’s going to manifest relative to the U.S.

15:46 Lots of things are happening, and the markets are reacting. They’re reacting when it first happens, and then they’re reacting right after. And the big players are positioning themselves with trades to take advantage in very large size. And real people can’t get in in that really large size. And so what happens when the bigger markets open?

16:06 And we talk about, and the model looks at what happens at the market open up to 10 a.m. for the U.S. market. So we’re looking at U.S. markets when I talk about 10 a.m.

16:15 Is that all of those institutions and speculators and hedge funds that have positioned themselves because of news overnight and into the market open, they’re already there, they’re already set to go. And it’s like the market opens and all of their orders get filled. And the small person is like, wait a minute, what’s going on? It’s like those little shark scrubbers with the shark. Sharks are coming and getting their trades done, and they’re getting executed right when the market opens, and in a lot of cases in stocks before the market even opens, in pre-market hours.

16:46 We’re watching that in the model. And so the thing that happens up to 10 a.m. is a lot of that stuff basically filters out. It happens. We get to then analyze how it impacted the market in the very, very beginning of the day.

17:00 Sometimes it’s always 9.30 when the market opens. But we take into account all of that large activity, and then we trade into that large activity. So again, we’re like the little shark scrubber with the shark, and the shark’s already gone. And we’re now just, we’re following, but with information. Wow.

17:18 Before. And this is something you use yourself on your own money, your own portfolio. Yeah. I absolutely do. And a couple of things about that too is with 25 cent contracts, they’re short term in nature.

17:31 They last for generally through the end of the week that we’re trading. And so one of the things I do is look on Mondays or Tuesdays in the beginning of the week, because that’s when, if something’s going to happen, it has the most chance of happening well for the investment. And so that’s what I do personally. I don’t tend to trade much after 10 or towards the end of the week. So I really do look at the beginning of the week.

17:52 Interesting. That’s where all the opportunities are. That’s where the opportunities are. And again, a 25 cent contract, so you buy that option, so you know your downside, but you potentially have unlimited upside or very high upside. Well, that’s right.

18:04 So for example, with what just occurred in the Middle East, we talked about a trade in an oil company that was probably going to do well, because when there’s any kind of issue with oil, the major oil companies tend to do well. So what we do is we look before the market. We position it. We look at the market open to see what the sharks are doing. And then we either issue a recommendation or don’t, depending on what we think is going to happen.

18:28 And in that scenario, we did issue a trade idea for that event. Nice. And so people kind of log in. You kind of let them know what looks interesting, if anything. And when it does, they put in their 25 cent contracts when the opportunity presents itself based on what the big sharks are doing.

18:46 Well, that’s right. Because we don’t know. At the end of the day, we’re watching them, but we don’t know. They could be sleeping on the bottom of the ocean that day. We just don’t know.

18:53 But to the extent that they’re in there, and we think there’s an opportunity for a transaction, yes, we do ask for people to be ready just in case. Because these things happen very quickly when they do happen. You do want to get in as soon as we put out a trade recommendation and then they have the opportunity to consider it and to potentially get into it. I had Kim Kiyosaki in that seat, and she was saying, look, Brian, I only invest in real assets and gold and real estate.

19:18 But she said, I follow Nomi Prince and her 25 cent options. Because she said, I understand that from a cashflow perspective. I put out this amount of cash. I know I’m not going to lose any more than that, but I’ve got a big upside. So you’ve got a fan in Kim, I know.

19:32 I know. Kim is amazing. We’ve actually worked together on things. I agree with a lot of how Kim looks at assets. And hard assets are very important.

19:44 They’re a very important part of anyone’s portfolio. And looking at things holistically from the standpoint of real estate where you can either live or get rental income, so that’s a real hard asset, any type of longer term asset like gold or precious metal or something that’s actually utilized in things. So there’s a physical nature to it as well as the financial nature to it. And then, yes, what I do is also look at markets. And I very much do quantify that downside, which is why I do like these 25 cent and inexpensive options because I know at the end of the day not every trade is going to make money.

20:19 But I prefer knowing what my downside is so that I know when the trades make money do make money. I can balance those things off, and net-net I’m positive. But I can evaluate where I might lose something on any given day relative to what I gain on all the other days. And so I can balance it that way because, again, since leaving Wall Street, I don’t get the same paychecks that I got on Wall Street. You don’t get the same big bonuses anymore.

20:45 It’s very important for me to preserve what I have as well as to allocate it and then invest it properly. And so the idea of these 25 cent options and these 25 cent contracts is to be able to do that. And that’s what I do with my own money and that’s what I do with this system and with this product. And it’s been very successful. So people are really having their eyes wide open as to what this can do to their portfolio and making some pretty big gains as well, right?

21:14 Yeah, the gains are very big because, again, it’s that momentum. Think of that shark again. If the shark continues in that direction, and again, we’re there on the market when the volume and the momentum is most extreme and we’re alongside that and looking at other parameters as well, that’s how the money is made. That’s where that positive upside is and that’s where a lot of people have been able to make a lot of money and sort of being a part of that initial start to the day in the markets and the right trades.

21:44 Yeah, and the right option at the right time can just be a massive investment. I mean, I traded options for a long time on Wall Street and I learned about them when I was at MIT and you just see, you know, when you can understand them and limit your downside, it’s a tremendous way to leverage and get big gains from the market. And so we just talked about that. We filmed a separate video so people can click on the link below or go to londonreal.tv forward slash no.me, N-O-M-I, to learn more about it.

22:09 I remember the first time I understood what a call option was. It was in 1991. I was at MIT in some income classroom on a whiteboard with a friend and I was like, we couldn’t get it, we couldn’t get it, we couldn’t get it and then I understood what it was and it was a real groundbreaking moment for me, you know, to see what they can actually do. Yeah, and to an extent, there’s the math behind how options work and how they price relative to where they’re underlying their share prices that they’re associated with and like how things move and how much time they have left before they run out and all sorts of different components of an option.

22:46 But then there is also this idea that, yes, they’re very powerful in terms of leveraging what the market’s doing anyway. And for example, you know, someone might not have the money to buy like, you know, an Amazon share because they’re stupidly expensive, but you might be able to buy an option on Amazon to give you the same upside but actually greater because you’re putting a lot less into that particular transaction. Yeah, yeah, for people that don’t understand, I mean, I don’t know what Amazon shares are, but I’m guessing hundreds of dollars, but with a 25-cent option, especially a short-term option like a week or something, you can get kind of the leverage of a bunch of shares and if there’s a move, you can make massive amounts on your initial investment without having to invest in that core asset.

23:32 Right. And you can take advantage, like you said, all these weird, strange global events which seem to be happening every week now, you know, things getting bombed and oil prices and elections in the Middle East and threats of war and new presidents and, you know, people talking about universal basic incomes and like, it’s crazy. And this is a way, I guess, of taking advantage of those big moves. Well, right, and also, like, what we do is we watch for the impact of those moves on all that market, that pre-market activity, you know, before the sharks set out throughout the world, so starting in Asia to Europe and the U.K.

24:04 And then on to the U.S. and how things, events actually manifest, depending on when they happen, you know, depending on whether it’s an oil event that happens, you know, on a Sunday in the Middle East and then it goes into what happens at the night in Asia and then the morning in Europe and so forth. There’s also a lot of time, we’re in a big world now, where information is instantaneous, but not every market is opened all the time still, and so therefore, you can see these patterns, these trends happening and building up as certain events take place and then how they actually ultimately get into what we specifically look at, which is the U.S. market open, but after all those other international markets have potentially been opened and been showing us trends and patterns relative to all these events, and yeah, the markets today really do operate much more on these knee-jerk events and processing them and the psychology of processing them than they did when I was on Wall Street and maybe also when you were in banking because it’s much more emotional what markets do.

25:06 It’s no longer, well, this company is good and they have a good long-term plan and they have good term money versus the debts that they have and they treat their employees well and all these things. That’s a part of the financial system, but it’s also very much like, what just happened like two hours ago? That’s a very new phenomenon, which we do incorporate into the 25-cent trader model, but also in general that I’ve been looking at very particularly in the last couple of years as markets have changed.

25:36 Understanding that emotion. Yeah. Okay. There’s a whole lot of rocket science going on in what you do, because you look at all these different indicators, but you end up telling people like, with a green light or a red light, buy this or don’t buy this. That way you do all the number crunching and all the complicated stuff.

25:52 Is that right? Yeah, no, that’s right. Even to the last moment when we issue a trade, we are looking at that green light. We’re looking at what’s happening like right now where those sharks are and what the premarket trading looks like to even make that final decision as to whether or not we see that green or whether or not we think, you know what, it’s just a light green, it’s a little yellow, maybe not, and not necessarily put out a trade if that’s the case.

26:16 Wow. The minute’s right up till 9.59, and you’re seeing if everything’s in place. If it is, you say green. If it’s not, you say, let’s wait another day. Right, or even if that builds up earlier from the 9.30 when the market opens, we’re literally watching that whole period of time.

26:32 And then at 10 o’clock, you go off to the gym, go do something else. You’re done. Done by 10. Well, that’s exactly right, because after that period is when all the major volume happens in the market. And even if it happens, like some event occurs at like 2 p.m.

26:48 At that moment, we’re actually not involved in that trade at that moment, or in a new trade at that moment, because we still feel even if, looking at various patterns and how the market reacts to even news coming out in the afternoon, the real acute behavior is still in the morning. And so even if something might present itself in the afternoon, just in terms of all our analysis and statistics, we don’t feel it’s going to have the same opportunity as what happens in the morning. Yeah, that makes sense.

27:15 And I remember the after-hours trading and all the things they would do, and people don’t know that’s happening with all these institutions. So having someone on the inside to understand that is super helpful for regular investors. So no, it’s a really exciting product, really interesting. So people want to learn more about it. Plungeville.tv forward slash know me.

27:33 There’s a link below. And again, you walk through the whole strategy behind it and how people can take advantage of it. That’s it. I wanted to take you back to a day where we were both in New York City. And the reason I want to ask you about this day is because I think it kind of tells us a lot about you, your life, your journey, the choices you made.

27:50 But the day was 18 years ago. It was September 11, 2001. I was flagging a taxi on Houston Street between A and B where I lived, and I was going to my dot-com startup job at that point. I had kind of moved on from banking to dot-coms briefly before I went back. You, I think, were at a corner office at Goldman Sachs, which was very close to the Trade Center.

28:13 You watched all this happen. What happened that day to you, and what was going on in your mind even up to that day, and how did that kind of change the course of your life? Yeah, it’s really interesting because I had the corner office at Goldman Sachs, which is like this very coveted thing on high floor. I ran a couple of analytics groups, and it was the 29th floor. And that morning, one of the things that happened was one of the analysts who worked for me in my department came and said, you know, I think I just saw a plane go by really low next to your office.

28:49 I was on the trading floor at the time, so it’s like there was the corner offices, and then all in the middle was all the trading desks. So I was probably looking at a trade at that time, and he says, you know, there’s a plane that just went by. And it’s like, okay, well, that’s weird. We’re not actually on a flight path, but okay. And then like almost seconds after that, I’m still on the floor, and all this sort of ticker stuff, we start to see all these little pieces of like paper, like almost like paper dust in the atmosphere in the air outside of these windows.

29:23 And then we’re looking at the TV, and the very first reporting of what had happened was that, you know, maybe some helicopter or something hit the World Trade Center by mistake. And that was the original, just no one knew. Like we didn’t expect there were terrorist planes, you know, terrorist-guided planes basically going to the towers. We didn’t know. So we’re opening the TVs now on the trading desk, and we’re watching fire engulf part of one of the floors or several of the floors of the World Trade Center.

29:52 And it’s all very weird, but no one at that moment quite knows what’s going on. So then, literally, I go back into my office to just call some people that I know at the World Trade Center, working at the World Trade Center just to be like, you know, how are you guys? What’s going on? Are you okay? And literally, as I’m going back into my office, same analyst comes in with me, and we see another plane literally fly like right past the outside, which was a second plane that hit the towers.

30:19 And that plane I actually saw. And that was, I believe, the American Airlines plane. But now I’m not sure if that was, I believe that was the plane. So you saw it go in or go by you? But I actually saw a plane go literally by my windows.

30:39 Not into the towers, because that was then past my building, but literally flying that low, you know, 29th floor level low, and headed towards the towers. At which point, there started to be much more conversation as to what these planes could be, because at this point now there’s verification that there’s like these two large jumbos that have basically gone into the World Trade Center. And there was much more smoke at this point. Like everything just started happening.

31:08 So now there’s more paper, there’s more smoke. It’s all outside our windows and everything else. And so the directive from Goldman was that, you know, you guys should basically go down to the fourth floor, which happened to be where the energy trading was happening, but it also happened to be, you know, where the stairwells kind of stopped. So go down the stairs, go down to the fourth floor. So I had to take my analysts and the rest of my group.

31:32 People took their groups out. There was a lot of like, at this point panic was building, because nobody knows what’s going on. I’m like, you know, let’s go. We’ll go down the stairs. We’ll be fine.

31:41 We got to the fourth floor. And at this point, a lot of the phones are starting to go out in the area. You know, cell phones are starting now to work. You know, a lot of things are happening very fast. And I remember also a bunch of people from our London office, as it turned out, had flown in that morning, like before this stuff happened, and we’re in our offices, because we were supposed to do an off-site, as it turned out, like one of these like, you know, go to New Jersey, like hang out with your global team and actually talk about options, as it were, that day, which obviously didn’t happen.

32:12 But the energy traders on the fourth floor were being told by the head of the energy desk to just keep trading, right? And the reason for that was because of those knee-jerk kind of reactions to events, which is that something’s happening with planes, which means something’s happening with oil, which means somehow oil prices are going to go up, which means we need to get ahead of that trade and trade. And that was sort of the directive on the floor. And I was like, I want to kind of leave.

32:39 I think leaving would be good. Leaving the building would be good. And they were like, you know, just stay here, don’t leave the building. You love to trade, but still you wanted to leave. I need to.

32:48 I think the best thing to do would be to not be in a building. That was my feeling. Which wasn’t obvious at that time. So many weird things were happening, no one knew what was happening. So yeah, but that was obviously a good instinct.

33:00 That was my instinct, and I wound up taking a bunch of people who worked for me, and they gave them the option. You guys can stay. I think going would be good. Because we don’t know what’s going on at this point. We still don’t know what’s going on.

33:13 For all we know, they’re attacking every building on Wall Street. Like, we just don’t know. Right. And if you’re going to attack the World Trade Center, you’re probably going to attack Goldman Sachs. I mean, we don’t know.

33:22 I mean, that’s the mentality that I’m kind of thinking, well, whatever’s happening, this could be a pattern. And so we left, and I wound up walking all the way up Broadway, which was, at this point, there’s ambulances, there’s firefighters, there’s a lot of smoke, there’s more ticker. People are really agitated, and people are trying to get out of the World Trade Center. And my feeling was to get out of the area. And obviously, no public transportation at that point was viable, so we just basically walked north, walked uptown.

33:56 I lived sort of on 20th Street at the time and just basically kept walking. And throughout that week, as the fallout was happening from knowing what had really gone on at the towers, I wound up volunteering with a friend of mine to, there were different services that were set up throughout New York to try and start to match some of the items. You know, jewelry, certain things, watches, things that were coming from some of the bodies and some of the debris that was falling around the World Trade Center with photos that were coming in from loved ones to find their loved ones at the armory, which I lived near.

34:40 So that was how I chose to spend the days after the attacks. And at Goldman, however, there had been a call from my boss to basically get us back into the office like two days after the attacks. There had been an agreement made between Goldman Sachs and the city that they would have a path on the waterway to go down towards Wall Street from the middle of New York to be able to work if they needed to. And their reasoning for that was that they did have to make markets, even though there’s international markets all over, but they had to make markets and act as normal as possible.

35:16 And I remember for me personally at the time, I was like, okay, well, I’m at the armory where there’s weeping people trying to find out whether their loved ones were dead or alive and throwing out pictures of what they looked like or what their items looked like to locate them. And I have my boss saying, now you guys need to get back into the office. And I’m thinking, no, this is just not right. This is really not a sort of mentality that I really want to be a part of.

35:42 And it was a very visceral reaction to that difference between what’s happening in real life and what was being required at Goldman. And so the decision I made really then was like, I’d already kind of been disillusioned for a little bit, but this was really a sort of hit-home moment where I was just like, I’m not long for this industry position. Wow. You must have had some trauma if you really think about that day. I mean, watching the planes and all that, and I mean, you know, I wasn’t that close.

36:15 Yeah. I was in the city and I walked down and I saw it, but, you know, you were really close to all that, you know? You know, it’s interesting because I’ve never really thought about that. I’ve always been someone who, like, I have a rescue diving license. You know, I’ve dealt with, you know, I’ve taken the courses in California where I live now in terms of like, you know, sort of rescuing in earthquake situations and stuff.

36:40 I’ve always felt that in emergency situations, I had the personal fortitude to like figure it out or help people along the way or do whatever. I never really thought about how it impacted me. Just how whatever needed to be done got done. Right. Yeah.

37:00 So you felt kind of your values and the values of Wall Street very obviously misaligned. And it was just really crystal clear to you. And it had been kind of bothering you a little bit for a few years anyways. So that was ultimately marked what would soon be your departure from the street, they would say. For people that don’t know what it’s really like inside of a bank, not to mention a high power, aggressive, you know, and very well respected bank like Goldman Sachs, what is it like?

37:29 How could you describe that to people? I mean, I could try, but I’m really curious what you would say. I mean, what is the mentality? What is it not? There’s also a lot of people familiar with the show, Billions, right?

37:39 Which is about hedge fund managers. But back in the 90s, those guys were at banks like Goldman. They were in proprietary trading desks. So the mentality was similar. There’s actually a plot line in Billions where the guys trading on the back of the 9-11, you know, stocks and things.

37:53 But how would you describe that to people? Yeah, first of all, that’s a fantastic show. Why do you like it? I love the writing on that show, and I actually like, one of the things I really like on the show is that there’s a lot of conflict within the lead characters, even the ones that are making tons of money in their personal lives, or alongside what they’re doing in their professional lives that’s actually shown in that show. Like, it’s not like they’re 100% about making the money.

38:22 I mean, they are, and it’s a game, and it’s a win or lose thing, there’s a constant nature of that behind the scenes. And even with the DA character, it’s like there’s a lot of winning and losing. It’s very much binary, but yet there’s a lot of gray. There’s conflicts in personal life and everything else. I’d say it’s very accurate, a lot of those things.

38:45 I know a lot of guys in hedge funds. Like you said, from the dress to the personal lives, to the houses, to everything, it’s a decent, reasonably accurate look. Yeah, to the extent, actually, where I never wanted to see that show, because I was like, I’ve lived that show. Like, I never even wanted to watch the show, and then I kind of watched the first episode probably on a plane. Actually, I think a plane coming here at one point, and it just was like hooked on it, and so now I’m caught up on the seasons.

39:08 Yeah, it was the same way. I didn’t want to watch it. I was like, I’ve done that. And then I watched the first episode, and I was waiting for all the stereotypes and stuff, and there was a few in there, but then when I looked at Deeper, I was like, this is kind of real, like what goes through a trader’s mind, what their life is like, what it’s not like, how it’s not all glamorous, how the money doesn’t fix everything, you know? Yeah.

39:29 It’s interesting to watch. It’s interesting. And actually, as that show goes on, just to finish up on that show, is there’s a character that comes on, like a younger character, who uses multiple pronouns, so basically it’s considered a they and a them in terms of like just having sort of multiple sexualities inside. But one of the things that they do in the show is they evolve in their career with respect to the hedge fund and with respect to making money and choosing the right trades and everything else, but they also kind of maintain, we’ll see how the show progresses in the next season, that sense of just doing the right thing while still trying to play the game right.

40:07 Yeah. And it’s very interesting, because I think for me on Wall Street, they’re especially working in a Goldman Sachs from Bear Stearns, it was quite a transition because when I interviewed for Goldman, which was in New York and I’ve been in London working for Bear Stearns, I remember at the time that I was, I was considering kind of ending banking anyway, and I was already, there’s a lot of stuff going on in the 90s, there was, there was, there was, for example, a Jubilee 2000, which was about canceling the debt for poorer countries, major event that happened in Birmingham, UK at the time that I went to while I was still working at Bear, so I was in the Soder Covert, like I want the debt to be canceled for the people on the ground, on the other hand, I’m in these institutions and we’re trading around it, and it was just a weird sort of thing in me personally, I was kind of doing, I was straddling both worlds, but then when I did an interview with Goldman, there was a sense at the time for me that, you know, if you’re going to stay in banking, and I’ve been at a number of different firms at this point, then Goldman was kind of like the epitome of banking, like if you’re going to be in it, don’t be in it to go to Merrill Lynch, you know, be in it to go to Goldman, and that’s kind of, that was kind of also happening when I moved there, but I interviewed in New York, they also sent people out to interview me in London,

41:27 Because they had a… They have a long interview process, don’t they? And it was nine months, that’s exactly right, it was nine months of an interview process, and I interviewed everyone through the top of the firm, and it was really interesting, because I remember there was one moment, I was in New York, I was still in the midst of this nine month interviewing process, and I was on one of the trading floors at the Goldman headquarters on 85 Broad Street, where I was that day also of the 9-11 attacks, and Lloyd Blankfein, who was running the division at the time that I wound up working for, and ultimately became the CEO of Goldman Sachs, took me onto the floor, like physically walked me onto his trading floor, and said, you know, take a look, you know, like it was this grand, you know, gesture as to like this promised land of banking or whatever it was, take a look.

42:16 I was like, I’m looking, and he’s like, you know, this is not Bear Stearns. Just so we’re clear, like it was almost like a look, you know, if you’re gonna be with us, you know, it’s totally different. And it was a very sort of physical presentation of how Goldman was, and that was really the mentality of Goldman, that they had what they called a culture of excellence, and that’s how they defined it, and you were very much a part of it, or you weren’t at the firm.

42:44 I mean, it was very simple, and if you were gonna be at the firm, you were part of that culture, and you were called a culture carrier, and in reviews that were done of your performance throughout the years, you know, carrying that culture was a component of the reviews themselves, and that culture was, ultimately it was very aggressive banking culture. That’s what it was, but they sort of wrapped it in this notion of being perfect, or being as close to perfect as you could get in banking. And how would that manifest itself, as in long hours we expect presentations to be on point, everything you do is just excellent?

43:22 Well, yes, I mean, there was definitely long hours. I mean, your life was Goldman Sachs. I mean, that was pretty much how it presented itself. You know, if there was a need to, and my boss would do this, you know, call, you know, have a call, or call someone at like 1 a.m. in the morning because they needed something in Tokyo, whatever.

43:39 You were just available. You know, that was kind of the idea. That is kind of what you signed up for, and if there were off-sites or if there were activities that Goldman wanted to do outside of, you know, the actual building or working hours or traveling hours, then you just did them. I mean, it was just part of how it was. So there’s a weekend off-site, you were there.

44:01 You were at everything, and you were pretty much living and breathing Goldman at all times. Right, which made it excellent. To them, it made it excellent. And how was it for you? So I had some real issues with how that was manifesting, you know, before 9-11, because around that time, there was a lot of corporate fraud that was becoming apparent, some really big name frauds like Enron and WorldCom that was coming apparent throughout not just Wall Street but the world, like the news, was starting to focus on companies that were creating sort of financial versions of themselves in tangent with the major banks to hide money, to sort of like, you know, misrepresent their balance sheet, mislead their investors, you know, and so all of that was happening as well.

44:51 And so I was working at Goldman, for example, and Enron was a client of Goldman. They were actually competitors as well, because they were both involved in trading energy options and futures and everything else. You know, here I was sort of developing models for Goldman to look at trading strategies and seeing them go up on Enron’s website, but also knowing that we’re both working with Enron and competing with Enron, and this was just one of many names like that, and it just seemed very wrong.

45:20 And also, one of the things I had always done throughout my career on Wall Street, particularly when I was in London in the 90s when we were talking about, you know, the EU was about to happen. There’s a lot of countries that were changing how their economies were viewed and how their debt loads were viewed and stuff and just the real world is analyzing what the downside of investing in certain ways could be. I was very big on the downside. Right, which is kind of why you had this 25-cent trading strategy.

45:50 Even that’s probably why you left Goldman on 9-11, because you’re thinking, sure, I could stay on the floor and make a bunch of money trading energy, but the downside is I can die. So you’re always looking to the limit. Or I can lose my soul. I mean, there’s the downside of that as well. And so, and even when I was developing those models in London for Barrett, the downside meant that there could be an event that happens in, you know, Croatia or in Venezuela or wherever, and that could impact, that could create a whole spiral of other events that could be negative for a particular situation or a particular trade or whatever.

46:24 And so I was always quantifying the possibility of those downsides and what they would look like, in math-y terms, wonkily, for a particular strategy. And so at Goldman, it was becoming harder for me to get internal, like, funding attention, green light, to creating systems and working with, you know, finding the people internally who I could gather, who worked with me to work on the systems that quantify that downside. It was all about showing the upside in particular strategies.

46:56 And we did some big strategies from some very big corporations and institutions. And I felt like I wasn’t able to get traction for internal attention to the downside. And that just really bothered me. And I remember having a conversation with one of the senior partners, who had been on the hiring nine-month committee, a series of people for me in the interview process, and saying, you know, I am, what is it? Like, shouldn’t we want to tell our clients this?

47:28 I mean, shouldn’t we, for the long term, want to be able to say that, look, you can do this and you can make all this money, but if this happens, then you’re going to lose money. That’s just the way it is. And he took me aside and he said, you know what? Your clients are senior management. Like, when you talk about clients, they’re not the firm’s clients.

47:50 They’re managing up. You know, if you want to do well here, if you want to survive here, if you want to make money, you manage up. Those are your clients. And I didn’t really like that either. Right.

48:03 And they want you to make as much money as possible. They want you to make as much money as possible, not worry about, you know, funding analysis for the downside or whatever it might be that could take away from that positive narrative. Okay, gotcha. What’s it like being a woman at Goldman? That’s actually interesting, too, because at Bayer, when I was in London, I was senior managing director.

48:26 I reached that point. So I was the most senior woman at Bayer in London at the time. And I remember that there were seven senior managing directors in research globally, and I was one of them. The rest were men. And I didn’t pitch to make myself the first woman senior managing director, you know, globally in research.

48:49 That wasn’t my intent. I just was like a person. It didn’t seem to me that it would matter. And so it was never part of my internal communications at Bayer, for example, to be like, hey, I’m a woman. Can I be like the token woman this?

49:01 Or because I’m a woman, I’m not getting that. Like, it just never kind of occurred to me in how it was made up there. It was very much kind of like an every person for themselves kind of atmosphere, but I actually liked that. Whereas at Goldman, there was a real structure of what they called diversity initiatives. I was actually on the cross division diversity group, which was a lot of senior people from different groups throughout the world and throughout the U.S.

49:32 Who basically focused on different things, in that case diversity. And the idea was, all right, well, we have so many women. We need to make sure they’re in certain positions so we get our sort of diversity check marks when in reality the guy who ran the diversity committee, who is now David Solomon, who is now the head of Goldman, never actually had hired a woman. So it was one of these like weird things where diversity meant having a diversity group, but not necessarily like following through in terms of bringing women up through the ranks.

50:04 And when I was at Goldman as a managing director there, I think we were about 11% of the company. And still the numbers at Goldman are about 11% of the company for managing directors. So as a woman, there are certainly the feeling of being in a boys club throughout my career. But ironically, when I got to a firm that supposedly had a diversity initiative, it wasn’t really any different. It just had an outside initiative.

50:35 But going back to just how I dealt with things as a woman is I just never thought about it personally. I just did my job and when something needed to get done, I was very vocal about it. I did have instances on Wall Street where men I didn’t think behaved properly. And I would alert my bosses of those. Like I had no fear that, oh, I’m going to say something about the head of the FXS or something and I’m going to lose my job.

51:04 Like I didn’t care. I was like, this guy did something wrong to me so I’m going to tell someone. So I experienced things on Wall Street just from the fact that it was a boys club and the mentality of it. But I never really let it change the level of respect that I believed I deserved or the confidence that I had in being public or being vocal about things that I thought were wrong. When was it time to blow the whistle per se and how did you decide that you wanted to talk about this stuff and leave the whole banking industry which would have to have been forever when you decided to do that?

51:50 Right, as it turned out, yes. So in that 9-11 period and in the period where Enron and WorldCom were big in terms of the scandal. For people that don’t remember, these were massive corporations that went bankrupt because of fraud. Accounting fraud, lying about revenues and the banks were complicit. Perhaps they were.

52:13 I know a lot of people that lost a lot of money on those things. Billions of dollars were wiped out of people’s portfolios. That’s right. And it was a very big scandal at the time and it did create a lot of more external inspection as to what was going on on Wall Street and also with respect to how corporations in Wall Street worked together or hid the real sort of status of their books in terms of working together and stuff like that. It was actually ultimately a global phenomenon in terms of hiding what was really going on.

52:52 And so that was one of the things that I had found obviously distasteful but also it was a period of time where things were changing that quickly. So it was all about sort of not taking blame and sort of hiding numbers and hiding roles of one company relative to another that I found wasn’t right for me. So I had a kind of friend. He became my friend, a reporter actually at the FT. It turned out, was very much interested in this story as it was unfolding.

53:33 And I wasn’t allowed or people at Goldman weren’t technically allowed to talk to the press without a lot of okays internally. Today it’s a little bit different in that if you’re an economist or a strategist or something you can go on CNBC, you can go on Bloomberg, you can talk about just general things. But back then it was much more that you just couldn’t really talk unless it was vetted. But I did have an association with someone because I saw what was going on.

54:03 And I also knew that, especially once 9-11 happened, that my time was going to be very limited at that point in the industry. And so I started talking to him about what was going on and the relationship between the bank and banks in general and Enron and companies like that in general. And I said, you know, I’m kind of over this anyway. I decided I actually liked writing. I’d actually always thought, okay, well, if I’m not, you know, what else could I be in my life?

54:31 And I always had a thread of writing as well. And I had started taking, as it turned out, courses in New York at the New School, which is a university there, but also had night courses in, like, nonfiction writing and creative writing and stuff. So the moments I could actually escape from Goldman, I was starting to take writing just to kind of flex that muscle. And I wanted to write fiction. I just decided I was going to leave Wall Street.

54:57 All this stuff was going on. I didn’t want a part of it. I just wanted to do something else with my life. Life’s too short. And I just wanted to be, like, a novelist.

55:05 That’s what I decided. And I wound up applying for MFA programs throughout New York. And I got rejected to all of them. I got rejected from the universities that had accepted me to their math and statistics PhD programs. But their writing divisions were like, no.

55:21 Your writing’s not that good. I was getting all these rejections. And I was telling this friend at the F2 what was going on. This was all in tandem with the end of my months on Wall Street. And he’s like, why don’t you just try writing about, you know, what’s happening?

55:36 And I was like, well, I can’t do that now. He’s like, okay, but why don’t you just think about that? So what wound up happening was, as I was resigning with this idea that I would still somehow be a novelist from Goldman, I was also kind of talking to him. And he said, you know what? I know these people at Fortune magazine, they’re looking for stories on what’s happening with the communications sector, with WorldCom and companies like it.

56:03 And you’re writing a thick of it. And maybe, you know, let’s just… So long story short, I wound up talking to them about writing an article with them. They paired me up with an internal reporter as well. And we wound up writing my first piece on Global Crossing, which was this massive fraud as well.

56:21 And I just sort of wandered into journalism. And then I found also there was a lot of lack of understanding about the fraud and corruption at the heart of Wall Street and corporate America. And I started getting asked to talk. Like the U.S. Coast Guard actually asked me very early on after I resigned to talk about ethics, and ethics on Wall Street.

56:44 And it just sort of evolved into this need to know versus I had knowledge match up. And then sort of went from there. What did your ex-banking colleagues think of you blowing the whistle? That’s interesting. So some of them stopped talking to me.

57:01 And some were told to stop talking to me. And then some of them were very much, you know, right on. You know, it was very… Because we all knew what was going on. Like anyone on Wall Street, you know, had a sense for how Wall Street was operating and how it was changing for the worse in that respect.

57:21 And I think ultimately, like I’m still friends today with people I worked with at Bear Stearns in London. And I’m also not talking to many people who won’t talk to me. So it really, you know, they picked sides. So I joined Bankers Trust in 93, and I got on the trading desk. Again, one of those big floors that they were like, here’s the trading floor.

57:44 And it was impressive. It was massive. And there was 300 people there. And it was the size of a football field. And people screaming about foreign exchange and treasury bonds.

57:52 And we were in the derivatives desk. But I was taught at age 22, what we do is we rip as much money out of our clients as possible. Actually, out of anybody we can, our colleagues, our clients, anybody. It’s cutthroat. It’s cutthroat and more than merrier.

58:07 And so it’s like, you know, you can make a million on that trade, make 10 million on that trade. And it was this culture. And I used to describe it as people as if I grew up in a family where I saw my dad beat my mom, then I would probably beat my girlfriend. It was just this thing where it wasn’t questioned and you watched it happen and then you just assumed that’s the way life was. Until later you go back and you’re like, why am I doing this?

58:28 And is it the right thing to do? And Bankers Trust famously got sued by a company and then sued by a few companies and then they hit him with the RICO, the RICO, which was used to take Al Capone down. It was a racketeering because they proved that Bankers Trust had done the same criminal act to multiple companies, just like the mob did. And so which tripled the damages, which back then was a lot of money. These days people pay billion dollar settlements.

58:57 But back then they remember Procter & Gamble had sued Bankers Trust for $77 million and it tripled on the RICO stats. So all of a sudden they were looking at a few hundred million and it was like real money and people were panicking. But the culture didn’t necessarily change.

59:15 So back to you, what did you see happening when you started talking about it and then has it changed? Will it ever change? Yeah, it was interesting. When I first started talking about it, so this was now 2002, like 2004. My first non-fiction book came out which was called Other People’s Money, The Corporate Mugging of America and it was all about Enron and WorldCom and banking and my time at Goldman.

59:38 I think I’ve become a clearer writer over the years so it was probably more technical than it might have been had I written it now. But it was sort of my first foray out into that and explaining what was going on. And I remember one of the chapters, I talked about credit derivatives and I talked about that competition and I talked about that sort of striving to be the one who can get credit for that trade so that you can be the one to get the biggest bonus or to climb up the ladder the quickest or to be in favor with the senior person who’s doing the same thing and so forth.

1:00:13 And I wrote about all that and I also wrote about how I hadn’t thought anything had changed at that point in the couple years since Enron and WorldCom. So you have these massive scandals, you have complicity of the banks, investigations in Washington and throughout the city of London and so forth through the international components of it and then it just kind of faded. So then I wrote this book about it and at the time it was like it hadn’t faded because some of the exact types of securities I had been working with, instruments like financial things inside the firms that I had been working with are now more and more dangerous because there’s less transparency, people don’t know how they actually behave, they could be at the crux of a crisis and then a few years later we have the financial crisis.

1:01:01 So that entire period, even though there had been all this fraud in 2001, 2002, it was exposed, it was investigated, now it changed and then you get into a period 2004 to 2007 where there’s this extra buildup of other types of fraud and risk in the financial system and with respect to banks and then you have this crisis. So nothing changed during that period even though there was a couple years of looking into it. And then since the financial crisis, I don’t think a lot has changed either.

1:01:35 What happened post the financial crisis was we had a lot of central banks of the Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank, all these sort of larger monolithic institutions who can sort of create money or what they call liquidity going back to the ocean and the sharks basically feeding, you know, pool of money into the banking system to kind of help them paper over a lot of the losses they incurred for the entire world. And as a result, there wasn’t a lot of change to these banks because all they really got for creating a financial crisis was money. And so like if you give a lot of money to a group of people who basically like lost a lot of money, they’re not even, they’re not going to change and there hasn’t been a lot of change, I don’t think, in the cultures as a result of that.

1:02:22 And so now we’re 11 years after the financial crisis, we could see another one, could see a year and two years and three years, whatever it might be, because nothing has changed. Right. And when it comes to people investing their money, do you usually tell them to stay away from the banks and to charge themselves with things that they can do? Because it’s funny, when I left banking, I had all my bankers that covered me always trying to sell me these financial products they created and I was like, what are you crazy?

1:02:53 I used to create these and I know what they take out of these trades. I don’t want any of your cooked up stuff, radioactive, toxic things you want to sell me. And I always tried to take it back myself and make my own decisions. Is that what you try to encourage people to do? Oh, absolutely.

1:03:10 I remember when, in the wake of the financial crisis, I actually, I had been in New York and I owned a place in New York and I sold it around that time and I used some of that money because I was also in journalism now at this time, so I used some of it to kind of, just as an exercise, not because I actually wanted to give them access to most of what I had, invested it with mutual funds at JPMorgan Chase just for the sheer like experiment of it. And I watched how they managed that little portion of my money with what actually I could have done. And they lost a lot of money on my money.

1:03:48 It was just, again, an exercise, but I wound up having these calls with the various advisors and stuff, you know, who are helping little people invest their money and stuff. And I was like, how is it possible that in this scenario you lost money whereas like the market actually, this was right before the crisis, the market actually went up. Like, how is it possible that you like, how did you, what did you have to do to actually lose money and pay, and I have to pay a fee to you in order for you to lose my money?

1:04:15 And, you know, there’s no answer to that, but except for the fact that banks are still set up as they were in the end run and WorldCom days to effectively make fees out of converting their depositors, converting their clients to people that want more complicated esoteric products and want to pay for management of their money and all this other kind of stuff, and they don’t get paid on how they perform, they just get paid on the volume and the amount. And so from my perspective, even a savings account, you know, a regular bank like JPMorgan Chase, rates are very low now, it pays literally nothing on your savings account whereas you could put savings in an online bank like an ally or an aspiration or even American Express savings and you could get closer to, in the US, 2% versus zero or .25%.

1:05:03 And so even in things where banks should be paying people to like continue to be with them, they don’t have to because they’re so big, but in those scenarios, I don’t have any savings with a bank, for example. Just keep it out, right. There’s just no point, right. Yeah, and that’s why you’ve gone on with this 25 cent contract to just show people how they can take, control themselves, understand these products that trade every day in their liquid and be able to try to invest and make money on some of these moves.

1:05:32 Yeah, that’s exactly right. And interesting that you mentioned, like I want to show people. I mean, there’s very easy ways that I talk about to access these types of products, of 25 cent contracts and so forth, and to watch and to listen for recommendations. But I think always it’s important for people to learn for themselves and to watch for themselves and to see how things go, if they’re new to a product, to paper trade it for a minute, just to do all the things that ultimately preserve not just their money, but also teach them.

1:06:07 I think that educational process is very, very important. Yeah, so important. And again, we recorded this kind of private video that’s not going to be available anywhere else. There’s a link below, or it’s LondonReal.tv forward slash NoMe, N-O-M-I, and you kind of go more into detail on how this 25 cent option trades works. And it’s interesting you said that because I had Kim Kiyosaki in here, and she said the same thing you just said.

1:06:29 And especially when it comes to women, and I’d like to talk about this as well, because I know both you and Kim are big into trying to educate women about finance. But she said, you know, a lot of people, not just women, but people too, they get scared when they hear about gold or an option, or something they don’t understand. She said, okay, go buy one piece of gold. Or in your case, go buy one of NoMe’s 25 cent options. It literally costs you 25 cents.

1:06:54 And watch it. Watch it for those four days or seven days. Watch with the market. Watch what go up or down. And you’ll see, maybe make a dollar, maybe it’ll go to zero.

1:07:02 You’ll understand it, and once you do that, you can really, I always describe it, it’s like getting to know a person. Each one of these instruments has a personality. Some are like axe murderers, and some are boring. They’re like your grandpa. Some are reliable.

1:07:15 Some are unreliable. But they all have these personalities. Just wanted to get your thoughts on that. And then just educating women in finance. Yeah, so it’s interesting, because I know that a lot of, and I’ve had the honor really of being able to work with Kim Kaesake on different things.

1:07:29 And I mean, she’s such a force for women. And in terms of how she does approach investment, so when she does look at a real estate investment, she’s not just looking at it from, can it go up, or even do I like it? She’s actually looking at all the sort of 360-degree sides of it. How can it go down? How can I extract money from it over time?

1:07:55 It doesn’t make sense for various different reasons. And she really does do her homework on every single thing. And one of the things that she and I have talked about, and that I really strongly believe in terms of women, and people doing their homework in general about any type of financial investment, is that the more you do yourself, the more you learn what to watch and what questions to ask. And that makes you a better and more confident investor, and also more confident human.

1:08:25 I mean, I think over years, and I see this with the women I talked to, who, for example, let the men in their lives handle the finances. This is still a thing. Say they’re married, the husband handles the finances, and let’s say there’s a divorce or a death or some situation where all of a sudden they are required to sort of step up, and they don’t have the language, and they haven’t developed their own experience to be able to do it for themselves. And that creates uncertainty, it creates stress.

1:09:01 I mean, there’s a lot of things that happen. Which hurts the relationship in the family, too. Exactly. And so, it’s the same thing with female students. At any point of life, is that, for example, student debt’s very big, and how can one handle that and manage that going forward into the workforce?

1:09:20 And I think with women in particular, there’s a sense that economics, that finance, and so forth isn’t really their thing. Now, not with all women, and it’s changing, but I don’t think it’s necessarily changing fast enough, and I think part of the reason for that, women multitask a lot of things, and one of the elements of finance and investing is that you do have to learn a new language in order to be confident with it. And it’s like learning Spanish or French or anything else, like you have to practice.

1:09:48 And you have to practice, whether it’s first on paper, whether it’s, you know, as Kim talks about, you know, doing like one little share, or like one little thing, or one little real estate investment, you know, starting small and just becoming comfortable. And so that’s one of the things that I talk to women about, and she talks to women about this as well, is that the more comfortable you feel with financial elements, the better you’ll be at managing them, the better decisions you’ll make, and the more confident and like empowered you’ll be in your own life, in any aspect of your life, not just with respect to money. Yeah, I think it’s super important.

1:10:25 You know, when, about a year ago, I was out in Phoenix to do something with Robert Kiyosaki, and you were there as well, and I know you were on the Rich Dad radio show, and Robert Kiyosaki was telling me about you, and he said, Brian, what I love about Nomi is she brings this kind of female energy into the financial space that’s traditionally been dominated by this male energy. And we’re doing a movie right now that kind of explores different aspects, and I mean, men and women can both have female and male energy, and, you know, you could kind of roughly say one super aggressive, one more is nurturing and more long-term thinking, but do you ever think about that when it comes to money? Because it sounds like your risk management, you know, sensibility comes from, like, this female energy.

1:11:08 Yeah, that’s interesting, because that’s been, you know, throughout my career, as I’ve always looked at or tried to look at as many sides of a strategy, upside and downside, as possible. And also, within Wall Street, I always thought that numbers, that the actual finance of finance, you know, how things move, the mathematical components of it, don’t care whether you’re a man or a woman, right? It’s more a question of how you use them, and that might, the whole idea of risk management of being there for a rainy day, that kind of thing might be, that might be partially female energy, but I also think that in trading it’s interesting because I find that women make better traders than men, even though there are far fewer of them, and one of the reasons I find that is because men, and this is, like, throughout my experience on Wall Street and just watching from the outside as well, just knowing a lot of traders, as men tend to get very sort of ego combined in their trades, right?

1:12:10 So it’s like, you know, if they have a great trade, it’s a great win, and it’s awesome, but it’s like who they are as a human, whereas I think women are more like, okay, I had a great trade. Good, let’s move on to the next trade. And they don’t necessarily identify with the win or the loss, actually as emotionally, I think, as men do. Yeah, I think that’s really right. And so I do think they make better trades.

1:12:32 I think you’re right. I used to do the same thing when I was first trading. I would, if my book was up, I always had a great day. I felt great. And my book was down, I had a bad day.

1:12:41 And like two years in, I think I was trading in Chicago at the time, I went home one day and I was like, your mood is determined whether interest rates went up or down and you were long or short that day. That’s ridiculous. Like I told myself. And we all know the great traders in bond pits and foreign exchange desks have great discipline. They take emotion out of the equation.

1:13:00 That’s right. So I would agree with you. Because I think it’s just hard as a man. And then again, the man to get on that trading desk, he’s probably gone through all the alpha stuff and then the culture of excellence. So you’re probably on that edge of the spectrum anyways.

1:13:15 And then women, because you’re dealing with that, particularly in the industry, and then even if you’re looking at finance outside, you’ve, over time, you’ve kind of accepted their behavior and you’ve become immune to it. And again, taking that part of the emotion out makes you a better trader. I remember one of the young women who worked for me back in London had an altercation with one of the traders on one of the bond desks. And it really upset her. And she comes to me crying and talking about it.

1:13:46 And it was verbal. And I wound up saying to her, let me just sort this out. And I go over to the guy on the bond desk. And I’m like, if you ever do that again, we’re not providing analytics for you. And I didn’t go into the whole what it was and we’re going to tell man, it’s like, we’re just not going to give you our stuff.

1:14:06 I get to make that decision. And it wasn’t an emotional thing. It was literally like, this is a transaction. Okay, this is my analyst. You are pissing her off.

1:14:18 Don’t. Here’s what I can do to bargain with you on the other side of why you’re not going. And everything was fine from that moment on. But it was not an emotional reaction. She had an emotional reaction, that happens.

1:14:32 At my point, in where I was at that time of my career, I was just like, no, this is how it’s going to go down or not go down. It’s your choice. And I think that’s ultimately going back to trading. Where not all the trades that I look at for myself make money. But I don’t tend to get as emotionally wrapped up in the ones that don’t because I find that will potentially keep me from doing the next one and getting up the next day.

1:15:04 And looking at everything with rules and with discipline as if nothing happened the day before. And I think that’s also what makes for a good trader is literally just, all right, I’m coming to it today. Very much so. You have this concept that you call breaking through the external noise. What do you mean by that?

1:15:23 Well, I think that’s a concept that’s in life and that’s also in finance and trading in the news is that it’s the idea of taking information and kind of trying to filter out what people’s intent might be with that information. So whether I’m looking at something in the news that’s happening because politicians have a certain reason for what they’re doing is try to figure out a way to say, okay, well, how would the situation go down if we took out their motivation and just looked at the facts? And the same thing in life.

1:15:58 If you have a fight with someone you’re having a relationship with or a business decision or whatever it might be, is if you can kind of try to view that situation without what their potential motivation is or their emotions or whatever is just try to kind of hone in on what’s actually here and now and what’s actually in front of you and information and facts scientifically. And your 25 cent contracts is kind of about that as well, just not letting the external noise affect your decisions. Yeah, because it’s interesting.

1:16:36 We’ve looked at trades because we always look at what’s happening in the markets before. We recommend a trade and you’re always learning, right, we’re always learning ourselves and we’re always learning how we behave in certain situations and sometimes I’m always between the way our system works is we’re between two or three potential trades that have certain potential green lights coming into if we recommend something. So there’s always like a preset of conditions and watching and then we get down to two and then it’s usually between two and sometimes I will find myself having a reaction that says, well, you know, this one might be better because more people are talking about it in the market but then I’ll look at both of them and I’ll see the volume and I’ll see the sort of sharks going into the second one and I’ll be like, no, no, no, you’re doing this on rules.

1:17:24 You know, take that thought out of it. Take the fact that like four newscasters just talked about that name and just go back to what you’re seeing, go back to the activity in the market and that has always worked relative but I always go back and see in this model. I always track the trades I didn’t do and I do that to learn. I also do that to make me more confident in the model and if there’s anything I need to change to be able to incorporate that but if I stick with the rule and not what I’m feeling, it works better.

1:18:01 You also have this concept where you talk about the markets versus the real economy. What do you mean by that? Sometimes different things, even though they should be linked. Right. Well, what we’ve experienced just in the world since the financial crisis since 2007, 2008 is that there’s been this massive shift in terms of where money goes.

1:18:23 Because central banks created so much money so cheaply over the decades since then, a lot of it’s gone into just the financial markets and financial assets. So we’ve gotten bubbles in stock markets throughout the world and bond markets throughout the world, more debt has been created. Lots of things have happened that I consider to be bubbles but the real economy itself hasn’t had a bubble. It’s not like any economy anywhere in the world has been zooming to the extent that markets have been.

1:18:53 And the reason for that is because this money isn’t finding its way into the real economy in the same kind of amounts or having the same effect as it finds in financial assets. And so what that’s created is this sort of difference between how the real economy experiences money and growth and how the financial assets do. And that’s changed a lot. And what happens when the real economy lags or doesn’t perform as well as the markets, which we continue to see, in general it means that people get more stressed, people get more economically anxious, more inequality comes into play, inequality between different people, between different countries, between different regions.

1:19:39 And that creates more tensions, political tensions and so forth or geopolitical tensions and so forth. And I think that’s what’s happening. We’re in this world right now where because so much money is going sort of to the top and into markets and less is sticking around the real economy, it’s creating much more of this chasm and that’s something I’m concerned about and it’s something where I think it could have really negative ramifications going forward. Okay, let’s talk about that.

1:20:06 So we’re like 11 years now into this bull market. What happens in the next five years? Is there a crash coming? We obviously have an election coming up in the U.S. We have all sorts of things happening in the world.

1:20:17 What do you see in the next five years and crash-wise? Yeah, so one of the things that we’re in new territory. The fact that central banks have created over $22 trillion worth of money kind of out of nowhere in the last 11 years is really potent for markets. And the fact that they can still do that, the major ones can still, like the Fed, the European Central Bank, Bank of Japan, can still create money, keep rates low or keep the cost of therefore governments borrowing low.

1:20:47 So therefore governments borrow more money to manage themselves and so forth. This creates a situation where, like in any budget, you’re not really taking into account what’s coming in and what you’re spending. You’re taking into account what you might be able to get because it’s artificially fabricated, like money’s coming out of electronic coffers. They’re just printing that money, basically. Yeah, they’re just electronic printing that money and that’s what’s happened.

1:21:14 And so as a result, real economies throughout the world just are deteriorating and growth is deteriorating, manufacturing is deteriorating, production is deteriorating. And particularly in developing countries and emerging markets, it’s even worse because they don’t also have the same sort of constant investment in their real economies, not in their markets, but in their real economies, especially when they’re lagging the larger economies or the larger economies basically need to keep their money back home. So you have this situation where money’s not going into the real economies of the big countries and certainly therefore not getting into the real economies of the emerging market countries.

1:21:53 And then you throw into that geopolitical risk and trade wars, which have created a whole additional wrinkle of economic uncertainty into the world. And I think that we are in a prolonged period, we’re starting at the beginning of a prolonged period now of a recession or even worse depending on which country. And that’s going to also create a lot of political tensions, a lot of people being very unhappy, a lot of demonstrations and unrest. So I do think we’re in that.

1:22:21 Now, the markets might continue to stay relatively positive during that period because they are being fed money. But in terms of real life and real people throughout the world, I do see growth slowing down, recessions starting, and as you get further away from the money-creating countries like the U.S., it’s becoming more and more precarious. I mean, this is one of the longest bull markets we’ve had. In finance, it’s a very big bull market. And stocks are certainly up.

1:22:49 And even when they have very volatile days, there’s been much more up and down coming into markets now than there have been before. It’s still in an upward trend for the most part, a lot of the markets. But on any given day, you can have these like hundred point, up and downs, or multi-hundred point, up and down swings. And that’s because a lot of the information that’s coming into the markets now, whether geopolitics, elections, U.K. Supreme Court voting, something a prime minister did wasn’t legal, all those sorts of things that come in create more uncertainty into the market.

1:23:26 So they’re buoyed up by money coming in from central banks, but they’re jiggery because of these events. And then the real economy suffers from both. Yeah. And your 25 cent contract strategy kind of potentially protects you from that crash because you’re not involved in being long a lot of these assets. So you can take advantage of pockets of volatility here and there through that strategy.

1:23:50 Right. And the strategy is basically you’re in and out that day. So the idea isn’t to take a view over the long haul in any one name or in the markets in general. It’s literally like what’s happening right now. So where are the sharks on Wall Street and throughout the world positioned right now and what do we need to look at to potentially position alongside that, but for very short periods and in a very cheap way.

1:24:14 Right. It’s a fascinating strategy. It’s really kind of exciting. Yeah. It feels like I’m kind of on the inside, like I’m one of those like analytic, high-speed traders where I can get in and out.

1:24:23 But most people don’t have experience of buying and selling something the same day, right? The average consumer doesn’t do that usually, right? No. I mean, a lot of people first of all look at things over the long haul or allow their fund managers or their advisors to do that for them, most people in fact. So there is an educational component to doing basically the strategy for yourself.

1:24:44 And the idea of a 25 cent contract is that ultimately you’re not exposing a lot. You’re not buying a share for, you know, 100 or 200 or 300, whatever dollars. You’re buying something very cheap. So if it doesn’t work out, the downside is limited. But the upside is potentially very high because you’re starting at such a low level and you’re looking at very short periods of volatility or momentum or movement in the market on that day.

1:25:11 So setting up the trade is actually simple. You know, we’ll recommend a strategy and then based on someone’s account, they can execute that strategy. You know, they can basically buy what we suggest if they choose to do that. And then set a limit. So basically we talk about something called limits, which is that you can basically lock in what your gain could be.

1:25:38 And that way you’re also protected in case you’re not watching it at that moment. Okay. Nice. And there’s more information on the link below about that. Londonville.tv4 slash NoMe.

1:25:50 Tell me about you. You travel a lot. What is something in your day that’s just non-negotiable? And it might be also how you write or how you create, what is like a daily practice or routine that you have, even though you’re at a lot of countries around the world, right? I travel a lot.

1:26:06 I’m in a lot of different time zones. So when I am home, when I get to be home, it’s non-negotiable to be with my dogs, to walk them, to hang out with them. I mean, you know, that’s something that gives me great comfort and I love spending time with them. When I’m on the road, the one thing that I keep constant or some of the things I keep on is doing 10 minutes of meditation every day. Okay.

1:26:33 And in different ways. So basically coming into sort of a quiet breathing space and sometimes meditating on a particular topic every day so that I have some way of just kind of like regrouping. If I can, I also have a yoga practice that I do. And I actually, it’s become easier to do that with various apps on my phone. I have a particular yoga app that’s very good for my travel and the amount of time I might have and how tired I might be from all the jet lag, is that it has 10 minute, 15 minute, half hour and one hour sessions.

1:27:05 So if I can only get to 10 minutes, I will do 10 minutes. But I tend to at least do 15 on that and then the 10 minutes of meditation during the day. So I keep myself sort of physically and mentally grounded for whatever I’m dealing with and wherever I am. Yeah, it’s such a good practice. I’m on 20 minutes now right when I wake up and I just make sure I don’t pick the phone up or anything.

1:27:29 What I try to do now in the morning is I try to become nobody in the morning. So I try to just not wake up to the same problems, the same behaviors, the same this. And I try to interrupt the pattern and try to just become nothing and see if I can just be nothing for a while and then I re-engage. So I think it’s just a way to kind of detach a little bit. Yeah, and to just be yourself and just kind of then greet whatever might be in front of you.

1:27:56 Yeah, exactly. If I were to ask five of your friends, what is Nomi’s superpower? How is she able to do everything you do? To write all of these books, to travel the world, you’re on these major television networks, you got this incredible financial product out. How do you do it? What is the superpower?

1:28:13 I think they think I don’t sleep. So I think they might think that my superpower is to not be able to sleep. The fact is I actually do need sleep. So it isn’t really that. I think it’s my ability to multitask really.

1:28:27 And to block out what isn’t as immediately important is to be able to I think always hone down to what’s necessary to do right now and to be very organized about that. Again, get rid of the external noise. Get rid of the external noise. Yeah, so much noise. What was the best day of your life and the worst day of your life?

1:28:51 Oh, gosh. I don’t know. This is hard. I don’t really know because I have so many good days. All right, well, if you think it’s a good day or a bad day.

1:29:05 You know, I had a recent good day, and I think there might be something with me anyway or us as humans where you sort of recalibrate as you go through your life. And so whatever happened that was great or awful, you kind of other things come up and they kind of always process. But I was actually, so on the good side, I was actually I was in Santa Barbara on a boat. I love the water. I love boats.

1:29:30 I mean, I’m always at my just calmness being on the ocean in different ways. And I was with my partner and we were on this boat and it was a wine tasting event. It was two hours and it was between like, I want to say like five and seven, so it was just into sunset but not quite sunset. And it was just, I mean, between the wine and the water and the mountains around us and the boat, I remember saying it and I was like, you know, this is such a good day. I had no interruptions about anything.

1:30:07 You know, it was like it was afternoon on a weekend. I had no work that I had to immediately do like that moment. And it was that idea of like being here and being now and just being connected to the water and to nature. I’m sure the wine had something to do with it. It was a good one.

1:30:23 But I just remember feeling incredibly at peace. And I just remember thinking, this is good. That feeling of peace and sort of the beauty around me and just my experience of what I was doing right at that time was just, I just like did a little notation in my mind of like, this is a good day. Days like this are good. In terms of bad stuff, you know, it’s been, I’ve been very fortunate that the days that are bad, I just, I mean, I don’t know, like things like 9-11, things that have happened with me and my family.

1:31:05 Right now, my dad actually is quite sick and I’m here in London and I’m constantly sort of on the phone trying to figure out if I should like hop on a plane and get back to see him or like what’s my time because we were obviously quite close over the years. And so there’s these periods of real tension and bad feeling that I have. Yeah, okay. What scares you? So for me, I’ve always lived my life in such a way that I can be as independent as possible.

1:31:41 Whether that’s financially, whether that’s my thoughts, how I express myself, you know, whatever it might be. I find independence, I left home when I was 16. I find independence like very big for me and so my worst fear is somehow losing that. You know, whether that’s, you know, in an extreme case like becoming paralyzed or like just different manifestations of losing and independence would be bad. Yeah, well that makes sense.

1:32:08 What would we be surprised to learn about Nomi prints? Like something you do or some guilty pleasure or some sort of thing besides the Akido black belt? So I’m really good at karaoke. Really? As it turns out.

1:32:22 So everybody says. That is true. So I won a karaoke competition in Japan in Tokyo. Now when I say competition, we’re talking their version, you know, in a bar down in a dungeon. Still though, they don’t play around there.

1:32:34 No, they don’t mess around down there. Lots of them. And it was a Madonna song. But yes, I was, it was La Isla Bonita. Oh, okay, good song.

1:32:46 But yes, I, you know, they kind of have these like scores that like show up in, I don’t know if that… Computer generated or? It’s computers, yeah. It’s kind of like these scores. It’s a Japanese thing, I mean, because they kind of take it very seriously there but there’s a whole mechanism.

1:33:01 So that was fun. So I do that. What have I done that would be surprising? Yeah, well, that’s the thing. The singing I think is the thing.

1:33:15 Yeah, karaoke is the thing. Okay. And the Aikido, you still practice? I don’t. I don’t.

1:33:21 I did for years. I did here. I got my black belt actually here at Richmond in Aikido. And I actually started it because I was mugged down the streets in New York and I started Aikido in New York because like I don’t really want to deal with like not being able to handle a mugging situation again. Exactly.

1:33:35 But I don’t do it anymore. Okay. I should, yeah. It’s hard to stay in touch with those things. What keeps you awake at night?

1:33:42 Well, the biggest thing that keeps me awake when I do stay awake is my family. I mean, it is, I’m wondering how they’re doing and it’s different, like my dad being sick or what’s going to happen with my mom. Like I find that family stuff is the thing that keeps me most awake. And what about like the world? I mean, part of your job is to consume all this news.

1:34:05 Do you ever worry that we’re not going to make it or do you feel like we are going to figure things out or is this a bad time in history or is this actually a good time in history? You know, it’s interesting because when I do worry about that, which is mostly what I do during my waking hours, I think that my fear is that we won’t learn from what we’re experiencing historically. Like we did not learn from the financial crisis. I don’t think things would change enough.

1:34:32 I think they were glossed over and I think that will ultimately present itself as another crisis and worse situation than we had before. And it really bothers me that like the world doesn’t get it. You know, and that’s the real thing. It also bothers me that we don’t have, and this is kind of a human nature thing, but the world tends to blame things or people tend to blame things for what’s going on in their lives or economically or whatever on other people when it’s not necessarily the other people’s fault, when it might be more of the system or how governments and finances are connected to each other, just sort of bigger matters, but they take it out on each other, which is kind of what’s been happening throughout time.

1:35:15 But it bothers me that we haven’t evolved enough in terms of humanity in general to not blame each other when things go wrong that aren’t necessarily because of someone being different or else or other, but because of something bigger than that. Yeah, it’s a powerful lesson. Nomi, I always ask a few questions. Dan, I’m going to ask you if you could pick up the phone and call the 20-year-old Nomi and give that young woman a bit of advice. First of all, where were you and what would you tell her?

1:35:44 Okay, so when I was 20, I was working at Chase. I probably had just come to London on business or around it for like the first time. Be it university or not? No, I graduated when I was 18 from college. I started working on, no, I was between 18 and 19.

1:36:05 I started working on Wall Street when I was 19. Wow. So I started at Chase when I was 19. I got a job as a programmer. I had just gotten my degree in math and sort of flipped over to be in the real world and to work.

1:36:18 So when I was 20, I was still at Chase. And I was developing sort of systems back then. And I do remember I wanted to travel. I mean, this was like a big sort of theme, and I’ve been fortunate that in all my experiences in life and in jobs, whether it’s in banking or in journalism or speaking, that I’ve been able to travel the world. And I think that’s what I would have said to myself back then, like, you know, just do it.

1:36:46 I mean, just take opportunities when they come. Don’t be afraid of what people think of you or whether or not you’re supposed to be the person doing something that you want to do. Just do it. That’s good advice. Second part of that question, best advice you’ve ever received.

1:37:03 Maybe that came from a trader or from a parent or a friend or something that might stick out in your mind. The following success secrets are only available inside the London Real Tribe, where you get exclusive access and insights from our high-performance guests on wealth creation, productivity, leadership, morning routines, health, and well-being. To join our tribe community, go to londonreal.tv forward slash tribe. Now, let’s continue with the show. One of my managers actually from here in London, I’m still friends with, who was a bear, when I wanted to do everything.

1:37:43 I was like, I want to do that product. I want to do that product. I want to grow here. I want to grow there. I want to have my team be great at doing everything and I want to be involved in everything at the firm.

1:37:53 He was just like, break it down. Be really good at one thing and then add a thing. Be really good at two things and add a third thing. Don’t try to do everything at the same time. Be sequential and you’ll figure out what you’re best at.

1:38:11 You’ll figure out the timing of when you need to move into something and it’ll just work out. It’s really good. Very good. Last part to the 20-year-old that’s watching or listening out there. You kind of grew up in this bull market in this current atmosphere around the world.

1:38:27 Advice to them. In terms of how a 20-year-old is facing the world today. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, I think it’s similar. I think right now, people coming into the workforce have a lot less of a path than I think I had or we had back around the same time because things are just so uncertain because they have so much more debt.

1:38:56 There’s a lot of positioning that people coming into their work lives right now have to deal with that could be weighing on them. But I think it’s the same advice that if you can take the opportunities that are presented to you but also I think today it’s very important to communicate with people. I think because we’re so electronic and so social-mediated out and that’s going to continue, that it’s very important to create when you can personal connections and to always have that as a part of who you are as you sort of go about your life because I think we are in danger of potentially losing some of that.

1:39:40 We’ve already lost some of that. And I think at the end of the day, being able to sit and talk to someone or get on the phone and talk, just do something that’s not 100% electronic is differentiating and it’s also, it’s just I think more connecting. And I think that matters. I think right now, for example, I was talking to, I was mentoring this woman who was getting into the workforce and now she’s got a resume on LinkedIn which is where everybody has their resume now and there’s basically a system on LinkedIn where a job becomes available and it matches electronically with the resumes that are out there and you get an inbox sort of notification and then you can choose to put more information to that employer.

1:40:26 And it’s just, it’s very cold. But it’s how it works. So it’s like you have to realize that’s how it works. I’m like, I don’t know, figure out a way to write them an extra thank you. Well I can, it’s on LinkedIn.

1:40:35 I’m like, look them up, figure out what their email is and send them an extra thank you. Like continue to push the envelopes of what we’ve gotten rid of in terms of personal connections just as you go forward. Yeah, that’s really good advice and I agree it’s going to keep going that way where people get to know each other via comments on Twitter and yeah, we need to personalize it for sure. Thank you for coming today. I really appreciate it.

1:41:00 Thank you. Your trading system is really impressive. Thank you. It’s the 25 cent contract. There’s a link below or londonreal.tv forward slash nomi.

1:41:09 Again, we go deeper into it and people can learn how they can take advantage of it, use it, try it. And I would encourage everyone out there to experiment with an options trade because it’s a great way to learn about these instruments, learn about the market, learn about yourself and understand what all of these banks have been using for tens and twenties and thirties of years. Right. So get on that. And again, get financially educated.

1:41:34 If you’re a female and watching this, take control. I think it’s really important. Kim really, really sold me on that. I just think it’s good for everybody in the entire family unit or relationship. Everybody can be involved in the finances.

1:41:47 Children too. All that education needs to start early. Yeah, absolutely. You have so many books, but this one Corrupt is excellent. It’s the most recent book.

1:41:56 The rest they can find. Amazon is the best. On Amazon or just on my website, Nomiprins.com. Okay. Yeah.

1:42:03 All right. Fantastic. So thanks for coming. Yeah. Thank you so much.

1:42:08 I really enjoyed talking to you. I know we’ve been into this for like a year. Yeah, I know. I’m glad it finally happened. And I, again, just I want to say that like what you’ve done here and how you’ve moved from this environment that we both used to be a part of is really amazing.

1:42:22 It really is. Thank you. And it’s been great to talk to you about like your venture because I had, you know, my version of that. I mean, you went out to get into creative writing and then found this and then I went out just broadcasting for the sake of it, maybe just to heal myself. And I’ve gone into this crazy thing.

1:42:40 So it’s nice to see that there’s life after and that you can anyone out there can take control of their situation no matter where you’re at. There’s never a point where you’re stuck in a job or a relationship or in any kind of a bad mentality. You can always switch it up and there’s lots of people, lots of examples of that. Yeah, absolutely. So thank you so much.

1:42:59 Until next time. Yes, thank you. I think that we’re starting the beginning of a prolonged period now of a recession or even worse. Hi, it’s Brian Rose from London Deal. I recently sat down with Nomi Prince, the former Wall Street trader you would have seen on Fox, CNBC and Bloomberg Television.

1:43:26 She regularly advises the Federal Reserve, IMF and World Bank on important financial policy matters. I’ve realized over the years that people don’t have the same exposure to trading systems on Wall Street. And so I looked at what are some of the ways that I can create something that regular people on the ground can use to access some of what Wall Street does all the time. We had an incredible conversation but what really stood out to me is her brand new 25 cent contract strategy designed to leverage a little known market anomaly that happens every day around 10am if you know what to look for.

1:44:02 The more comfortable you feel with financial elements, the better you’ll be at managing them and the more confident and empowered you’ll be in your own life in any aspect of your life, not just with respect to money. Now as a former Wall Street trader, I am super excited to share this investment strategy for the very first time. As the host of this episode, I’m able to offer you exclusive rights to a seat at her 25 cent contract live training. But you must act now to secure your spot.

1:44:31 So click on the link below or go to londonreal.tv forward slash nomi that’s n-o-m-i to secure your spot and I will see you there. I myself, my graduate degrees are in statistics and operations research, undergrad and math so that was always, yes, my kind of angle into Wall Street relative to trading or sales which was some of the other types of jobs on Wall Street. It was always about the math, the trends, the numbers, the securities and how they behaved under certain conditions and that’s always what I looked at throughout my entire career on Wall Street.

1:46:11 And I also looked at the downside, you know, not what happens if a trade works but what happens if it doesn’t work, what are the risks you should be looking for and how can you best, you know, sort of protect that investment for those risks and so that’s why. They’re a very cheap way of taking an investment into the market particularly in times of volatility that take into account what the big sharks are doing, that take into account why volatility is happening and presents a way for a person to take advantage of that scenario in a cheap way and in a fast way and in an easy way.