Kimberly Wyatt - Pussycat Dolls

Full transcript: Kimberly Wyatt on London Real

2:51 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Kimberly Wyatt, former member of the Pussycat Dolls, the most successful girl band of the last decade, selling over 54 million records. Since then, you’ve been a judge on the shows Got to Dance and the US version Live to dance, and last year you became the Celebrity MasterChef Champion. That’s big. You are an ambassador for the Youth Sport Trust, which promotes health and well-being for young women through dance, and you also have your own initiative called WellFit. Kimberly, welcome to London Real.

3:20 Thank you very much. Very nice to have you here. I was wondering if you ever wake up and say, what is a girl from Missouri doing here in the UK? every single day yes I never imagined finding home and a husband and now having a child all here in Britain it was beyond my wildest imagination yeah really yeah and when did you first come here and did you feel something right away I first came here when I was with the Pussycat dolls we came here on tour and to be honest I was completely overwhelmed with the city and the people and the buildings it was all really buzz buzz buzz but I will say when we went to Manchester and performed concerts there it was one of my favorite places to play around the world because the crowds in Manchester were just so loud so excited and I always felt like for me as an individual in the band I got a lot of love and a lot of support here in the UK and so I guess that’s probably what inspired me coming back tour after tour and and performing and getting all this love and fan support it sort of inspired me to come teach some classes after I left the Pussycat Dolls, which then led to television work, judging, mentoring kids, and doing Got to Dance and Live to Dance, and now taking the next step on CBBC.

4:35 It’s just kind of one thing led to another, all because of the support and my love for dance, yeah. Wow. Why do you think the British fans are so crazy, you know, or so excited about? And also, they really love the Pussycat Dolls. You guys were bigger here than in the States, or just as equally as big?

4:52 We’re probably bigger around the world than we were in the States. And the UK was always kind of the launching pad for the Pussycat Dolls. And I don’t know exactly what it is, but I just know that they really got the music. They understood the cheekiness of all the songs that we were singing. They were so inspired.

5:09 I think probably the media and radio and everybody really got behind us and gave us a nice big push, probably more so here than in the States. But yeah, it was just undeniable going on stage night after night, and just the amount of signs and flowers and fans and screams and bears and cards, it was just like, wow, people really dig what I do here. They like my look, they’re cutting the hair like me, I’m dyeing it blonde, and they’re doing my leg tilt, and it was just like, it was pretty cool to be supported in that way.

5:36 Well, they’re doing the leg tilt in the fans we’re doing it, like for you? Yeah, yeah, and taking pictures and sending it to me on social media and things, yeah. And that kind of thing can really help you on those grueling nights like touring. Can that really make your day? Yeah, because you give an hour and a half of high performance dancing and high stilettos.

5:58 And it definitely wears on your body, traveling, living on a bus and on airplanes and trains and cars and everything. And then to kind of get ready for another big show, feeling exhausted after performing night after night for years. You just don’t know how you’re going to get through another show, but as soon as you get out there and the fans are loud and screaming and singing every song and dancing along with you, you’re just like, yeah, it’s fine. It was gonna be a breeze.

6:22 You just do it. Nice. And you mentioned the cheekiness. I mean, I rewatched Don’tcha for the first time in like a long time, and I still remember that video very well. But like, it’s pretty, it’s pretty racy, pretty explicit, the lyrics.

6:36 And I think the Brits are more okay with that than the Americans, right? I think because we’re close to the continent and we’re next to the French and people are more open about, I don’t know. Sexuality. Sexuality, yeah. Yeah.

6:49 Whereas in America it’s very repressed. It’s really the Puritans that took the boats across that became America, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Okay.

6:56 And it was interesting because the Pussycat Dolls was around for over 10 years before we became a recording group and launched with Don’tcha. And it was a cabaret burlesque inspired dance troupe that started at Johnny Depp’s Viper Room. Johnny Depp was the one that spoke to Robin Anton, the creator, was like, what is this show? You’ve got to give it a name. and created Pussycat Dolls.

7:16 And through that venture, we had tons of celebrity guests that would come and join and do the show. And at the time, it was more cabaret burlesque. It was fishnets and stilettos and corsets and similar to what you sort of saw in Don’tcha, but we were definitely urban-fied in that video. This before burlesque was cool, right? Before, yeah.

7:35 And I guess it was really when the likes of Charlize Theron and Brittany Murphy and Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera and Gwen Stefani were doing the shows with the Pussycat Dolls and it was getting serious notoriety. Okay, is Scarlett Johansson doing one as well? Yeah. Okay, so you would kind of get these guest celebs that would rotate in and perform at the Viper Room. They would perform, they would lip sync, they would host the show, they would do lots of different roles.

8:00 And I mean, the list of people that did it with us was phenomenal. But kind of when Don’t Show became the song that we were gonna launch with as a recording group, they wanted to give it more of an urban feel. Some of all of us girls went into the trailers to get our hair and makeup and everything done and we were working with the best. Like Orbe was doing the hair and it was just incredible. And the styling was Andrea Lieberman who does Gwen Stefani and so we go in to get changed, hair and makeup and all these girly girls come back out with like braids and really sort of fierce, sort of urban type looks and boots with belts and just kind of craziness.

8:36 We’re all like, who are we? But we’re performers, that’s kind of what we do. that was on the set of the don’t you video yeah so all right so you really expected something different we had no idea what to expect I guess but um yeah we came out feeling very urban okay but the six members were there at that point you’ve been performing together in burlesque at that point yeah we had been performing probably that group of girls for about a year and a half together okay it’s funny that video has an extra girl in it actually her name was Claude, because they’re still trying to figure out what girls were going to be the core group of the Pussycat Dolls.

9:16 And I remember at that time, I was kind of on the edge. They weren’t sure if they wanted to keep me or not. And it felt like the fight of my life. I knew that every single scene I had to do something amazing and show my talent enough and look good enough and be good enough that they wanted to keep me in that group, because I knew that that was my dream job. I wanted to be in the Pussycat Dolls.

9:36 So I was dancing for my life in that video. And it shows. I mean, there’s a lot of clips in you doing a lot of your signature, you know, very acrobatic impressive dance moves. And I was watching that, how long was that shoot? Two probably 24 hour days, basically.

9:53 Okay. Yeah. There’s so many different scenes in there. And like, you know, you’re in there for this quick cut. Like one thing, one time you’re next to the toilet, one time you’re there, one time you’re there.

10:01 And I was just thinking how many different lighting setups, how do you get the energy? do you do the lip sync and keep it that high? I mean that’s brutal. It was crazy. It was brutal and too because I was trying to prove myself. There’d be like the trampoline scenes and there’d be a camera over top so I’d be like okay I’m going to jump, I want to turn so I could do something in front of the camera and then try and land in the tramp. And my goodness I’d go up there, I’d get the shot and then I couldn’t get twisted around quick enough so I would just hit my head on the like wood part of this tramp or even in another scene towards the end, it’s a big group shot and we come from the balcony, come down the stairs and do a big dance break.

10:39 And we were supposed to be… You slid down the balcony, didn’t you? Yes, I slid down the balcony. I saw that today. And at the time I was like, okay, have to kill it, need to be in this group, I’m doing the routine at the top, have to stay in time, get on the banister, ride down, get to the point, do the choreography.

10:56 But at the time, as I was trying to get to my spot, I was in these crazy high stilettos, and I came out of both of them as I was trying to keep in time, slid down the banister, get to the spot, dancing in socks, and that is now in the video, if you look at me in the very back, in the corner, I’m in my socks, dancing by myself. And they kept that cut, because it was still good. I don’t think they even noticed it, because I was so far back. Wow. And most people have no idea, because it looks like everyone’s having fun.

11:24 Absolutely. That’s hard. Yeah. And there’s a lot of money on that set, like, so Interscope and Jimmy Oveen and all these people are putting so many bets here, they’re like, this needs to work. Absolutely.

11:36 Yeah. Because they had tried the song, the song Don’t Shit had been released before to radio by an artist named Tori Alamez. And when it went to radio, it was the number one requested song in history, apparently, but it wasn’t selling any music. And so they took this song, gave it to us, rebranded it, and launched it, and knew that it was a surefire hit, but they had to get absolutely everything right. So we were under a serious microscope of you got to do it, you got to make it amazing.

12:03 Right. So a lot of pressure, but at the same time, you know you can be a part of something really big and you have professionals everywhere, like you said, the makeup, the styling’s really good on that. And I don’t know anything, I’m a guy, but I’m like, man, they must have chose what everyone was wearing and the braids and everything. Yeah, there is a lot of thought and brainstorming that went into the look, the feel, the style, the sound, everything when it came to the brand, the Pussycat Dolls.

12:27 Okay, and Busta Rhymes was there on the set. Yeah. Okay, yeah. So that’s even more craziness going on. Yeah.

12:33 He was one of my favorite artists as a kid as well, like Dangerous was one of my favorite music videos. Miss Yellie and I loved her videos, Aaliyah, like all of these were my sort of aspirations as a kid. I used to watch the videos and be like, I want to be that one white girl that’s dancing in that video which is sort of what led me to going to LA. So being able to do videos dancing with Busta Rhymes and dancing with Missy Elliott is just a crazy dream come true.

12:57 Wow. Yeah, he’s an interesting guy. And he was an Interscope guy as well which I’m guessing why he got the call to be part of that. Absolutely. I heard a podcast recently and he was talking about all the things he used to have in an Interscope and with this record and that record and so then it just clicked to me and I kind of put it together. So that’s pretty fascinating. Alright, I want to talk more about the Pussycat Dolls but you You said you came to LA to be the white girl that wanted to be in that band.

13:20 So just go back a little bit and tell me what happened that year before that got you there. Because you were in Missouri, you loved to dance when you were young, and you got some scholarships to go to New York, and you could have taken a different path. Absolutely. I graduated early from high school, I flew myself to Las Vegas, did some auditions, ended up getting a job for Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines. So I did that for about a year and a half, was extremely seasick all the time, it was horrendous.

13:49 But it’s a great option for people that want to perform and make a living and get a lot of experience? Absolutely. It’s a great first job for a dancer or singer or singer-dancer because the shows are fantastic. You work with great choreographers that come from Chicago jazz dance companies like Hubbard Street and River North and yeah, it was incredible and I think it’s a great way to get your feet wet as a newbie, pun intended. And yeah, it was great because it’s a great way to save money, room and board is paid for, you’re fed, you do great shows, you’re getting good experiences, you’re travelling the world.

14:25 And some people kind of get stuck in that dancing on cruise ships thing, but I knew I wanted to get in, I wanted to get out and go somewhere else and kind of continue my dream. And working with those choreographers, they really kind of believed in me and they gave me good parts from the shows, and I really thought that I was going to head to Chicago and join one of the jazz dance companies. But when I got back to Missouri, I gave them a call, and they weren’t accepting until the next year.

14:51 And it was August at this time, and I just couldn’t wait that long. So I looked on… Sounds like a theme in your life, not wanting to wait. Yeah. Don’t take no for any other…

15:00 Okay. And just by the way, the New York thing, you were just like, I don’t want to go to New York and be in these dance schools. I want to get… Yeah, I loved Broadway Dance Center and Steppes and Joffrey and all the scholarships in New York. Our teachers were amazing to help us get these scholarships.

15:14 Go to New York in the summers, train like crazy, go to see a Broadway show, and just be really inspired to see what’s out there for you as a dancer. But I kind of always knew that New York wasn’t really my style. It wasn’t really where I felt excited. And yeah, it was just, I loved the videos. I loved the sort of street dancing and the contemporary dancing I was seeing in videos.

15:39 I was really inspired by that. I’ve always loved watching films and television and I just kind of wanted to see if I could do that kind of work. Okay. Yeah. Missouri.

15:49 What’s Missouri like? Where’s your accent? Yeah, I’ve lost it, haven’t I? Yeah. Yeah, really tiny town.

15:55 So Missouri’s right smack in the middle of the States. And I grew up in a really small town called Wornsburg. It’s a farm town. My dad was a trucker. My mom was a secretary that sort of worked for him.

16:07 And yeah, there wasn’t a whole lot going on in my tiny town. It was lovely, great place to be a kid, lots of play area, lots of fields, horses, and four wheelers, and all that kind of Tom Girl stuff or tomboy stuff. But dance was my thing. When I found dance and I started winning competitions and being seen for my talent, I knew that it was a ticket to possible new life. Okay, and did you always wanna get the F out of there or was it just like dance opened up windows to where you saw new possibilities for your life?

16:39 I would say it started with windows of possibility and it didn’t get me up out of here. Right when you get into those teens. Yes. Where you’re like just kind of angst. Yeah.

16:50 Okay, all right, so West it was then. You got back to Missouri and you’re like, I’m not gonna wait for Chicago, dance troupe. Gotta go to LA. Gotta go to LA. Okay, what’s it like rolling up to LA, you know, after being on Missouri and cruise lines and getting there.

17:04 Oh my gosh. Well, I remember the first I got a car, GPS system, put the dot on Los Angeles and just drove for an audition that I found online. And when I got there, I went two hours early to the audition so I could get front row next to the choreographer, next to the mirrors, so I could catch on to the choreography as quickly as I could. And I’m sitting there stretching, been there all day waiting, and the room starts feeling with people and as a couple of girls come in they kind of pass them their way through everybody they bump me stand right in front of me and I was like you know been here for two hours and they turn around they say welcome to Hollywood honey I was like I mean how old at this point I was 17 18 yeah so you did the cruise line when you were in high school I was 17 when I got the job started when I was 18 was on for about a year and a half so I was 19 When I moved to LA and these girls were veterans probably 21. Yes. Yeah, and they were just like yeah All right, so that is the introduction. Yeah, I was like hair back in a ballet bun leotard tights really ready to perform I was very New York. That’s kind of everything I had trained for but West Coast was like fashionistas ripped shirts jeans Hair down lots of makeup. It was a different thing and it seemed like everybody’s abs were out I had a lot to learn.

18:28 What happened next? Do you remember the first gig you got? Was it months before you got work or was it… Yeah, because I had to do telemarketing jobs and dance at bar mitzvahs and corporate gigs and anything I could just to pay the bills while I was continuing to figure out what I needed to look like to get jobs, what I needed to dance like to get jobs. And I was really typecast in the beginning as a contemporary sort of ballet dancer and those jobs would kind of come here and there.

18:54 I remember doing, one of my first ones was the opening ceremonies for the Paralympics in Salt Lake City, which was incredible. But finding other contemporary ballet jobs was quite difficult. It was all, all the videos at that point was street, street, street. So I had to get in class, I had to figure out how to let the hair down, how to find a look, how to be the right person to get those jobs. And it meant sort of letting go of a lot of that contemporary practice I’d had So long let go of that core and find my street dancer with it, right?

19:24 You didn’t do street dancing before I did hip-hop dancing But it just wasn’t quite the same style that they were doing on the west coast Okay, yeah, but you found it right because you you have that street feel yeah Yeah, I think you do I mean I trained my little hiney off to find it and worked with tons of people in order to Figure out my style with it and it was being able to keep my contemporary background my flexibility and my ability to do that sort of style of dance and then fusing it with street all the sudden I became a force to be reckoned with and it was like every audition I would go in I was gonna book it and when a girl would see me walk in they would kind of get to know each other because become the same sort of audition circuit they’d be like oh we might as well leave because you know she’s gonna get the job so yeah I really found my way my way there I found my thing. Very determined. Very determined yes. I can tell. Talk to me about dance I don’t think people understand you know what dance is to a certain extent I mean you’re talking about all these things and we can move on to something else but like you know you’re a dancer deep down to your your soul I think and I’ve been learning a little bit about dance recently the last six months I’ve been actually break dancing for the first time in my life before that it was all tough guy sports it was martial arts and jiu-jitsu and boxing and all that or lifting but you

20:38 Know with dance you really are putting your personality on the line you’re trying to express emotions you’re really communicating with your body which which you could argue how we originally were meant to communicate. How do you look at dance? Gosh. Dance is everything to me. I was a very shy girl growing up.

20:57 I didn’t have a lot of confidence. I had a lot of image anxieties. I tried a lot of different sports. Did softball, I tried basketball, I tried brownies. But nothing really made my heart sing.

21:08 I just didn’t feel like I fit in. I always felt like a little bit of a loner. But when I watched the Olympics, would see the gymnastics and see these gymnasts do amazing things with their bodies and I’d watch figure skating and just see this beautiful grace that these women were kind of flying around on the ice with and I was like that’s the sort of thing I want to do so inspired by it so I went in I started with gymnastics I started tumbling and learning cartwheels and handstand forward rolls and things and they offered other styles of dance and when I found dance this way to communicate and pick a song that really spoke to me and be able to bring that emotion out through movement, I figured that I’d found something quite special.

21:50 And being able to kind of get on a stage and put your soul on the line through movement and show just what you’re feeling and what you’re going through and what you want to express through movement, I found something that really spoke to me because I’m not always the best at articulating the way I feel through speaking but through movement and through my body I can. And with that came the confidence, because if I looked at myself in the mirror, I was like, I don’t want to see that. But if I could go in the dance studio and do turns and jumps and leaps and flexy things and choreography, I liked what I saw in the mirror.

22:24 I liked myself. And that started giving me a new confidence, really. And for me, dance is the way that I am able to love life. It’s the way that I’m able to enjoy what I do. I just connect with people in that way.

22:38 It’s taken me to amazing places. It’s given me a reason to dream. It’s given me the ability to believe in myself and ultimately it’s helped me kind of rise to the top of the dance world. You’re building a dance studio in your new house out in the countryside. Yes.

22:54 So that tells me that you really find this to be an integral core part of you as a human. Yeah. I think I had to almost move away from it, try other things to realize that no dance is actually who I am. I was watching a TED talk not too long ago, and they were talking about this woman who her mom thought she was just insane. She wasn’t doing very good at school.

23:16 She was always kind of by herself sort of dancing in the room, and they sent her to a psychiatrist and was like, can you please figure out what is wrong with my daughter? And the psychiatrist comes out and says, there’s nothing wrong with her. She’s just a dancer. Dancers speak in a different way than I think other people. You know, like I said, I can’t really articulate things all the time, but gosh, I can pour my heart and soul into dance. Yeah, I think I saw that TED talk.

23:39 Andre Agassi wrote an autobiography about five years ago or eight years ago and in it he said when he first met Brooke Shields he said by the way I hate tennis and she said what are you talking about it’s your life he’s like I hate it. Did you ever hate dance? Did I ever hate dance? I had a moment where I realized that because dance had become my business the business had pulled the love of dance away from me and that’s when I knew it was time to make huge changes and that was the pivotal moment when I realized that there is a huge sort of question out there of what happiness means that I needed to discover for myself. Okay yeah this is probably oh nine right at the end tail end of the push-up. Yeah it was in China we were doing a huge show and just in the middle of the show I had that realization because I was out there doing the moves but there was no soul it anymore I was just you know just felt like a puppet and I knew I couldn’t I couldn’t be a puppet anymore I have too much to give I have too much to say I love dance too much to let that happen. Right but everyone told you you had made it you probably had great money you were touring the world with the you know the biggest girl band in the last decade and yet something you probably told yourself that same scenario and then something just switched. Yeah. What’s Okay, and then very soon afterwards you left. Yeah pretty soon I did everything I

25:04 Could in that situation to be honest, to make changes so that I could continue because in the beginning it was my fight for the life because pussycat dolls was my dream job but at that point I realized that you know the business set up and the workings of the whole situation just wasn’t fulfilling me and either that had to change to some extent or I had to go and when I realized it wasn’t going to change. I had to go. And like you said you’re expressing who you are when you’re on stage. Sounds like you’re probably a professional enough to where you can fake it for a little while. Yeah. But then after a while it just gets to where you’re like what am I doing? Absolutely. Do you see people on stage? I’m sure you do. And people in movies that you’re like they’re just phoning this in. Oh easily yeah. I think that you know there’s an innate ability to see through the fog. I think authenticity is the most beautiful thing a person can have and I think you have to take on a lot of opportunities and try new things to figure out where you feel the most authentic and for me it was always dance but then all of a sudden that was my authenticity was gone and I didn’t really know where to find it and it took quite some time to finally figure that out. Okay but on a 90-minute performance with the lights and the music and the backup dancers I mean can’t you kind of fake that authenticity for a little while. I can fake it all day long. Okay but until you don’t want to

26:22 Anymore. Just to finish off with dance, you work with some of the best ever in LA. You were one of the best ever, are one of the best ever. What does it take to make a great dancer? Determination. As a professional dancer, every dancer I’ve mentored or come across has asked for my best piece of advice and I say don’t do it unless you can’t live without it. Because the rejection is imminent, it’s always gonna happen, it’s gonna be consistent in your life. Dance is at the very bottom of the totem pole when it comes to the entertainment industry.

26:57 You’re going to put your body through it for hours upon hours and have days where it’s going to be hard to go upstairs because your muscles are so sore. It’s an endurance test. Can you get through it? Can you face a rejection? Can you push yourself consistently? Can you always learn new styles, work with new people, adapt to new situations, and survive and be fulfilled. I mean, that’s a very, you know, that’s a personal thing. And I think that to be a dancer means, to be a dancer that really wants to dance for the rest of their life and be professional and work at it and be a working dancer means coming to the realization of all of that and still wanting to continue.

27:37 Why is it at the bottom of the totem pole? That’s a good question. You know, back in the golden, the golden ages of film, you You know, you have your Jane Kelly… Fred Astaire. Oh, Fred Astaire, Jane Kelly, Ginger Rogers, Debbie Reynolds, so many amazing dancers and you know, it was acting and it was the triple threat that really kind of made it.

27:57 But throughout the ages, I think people have found it difficult to make money off of dance. And for a lot of huge sort of film sets or music videos or anything where dance might get an opportunity, as soon as that budget is cut, the first thing to go is dance because it’s quite expensive. To dance, you have to have music, which means licensing. You have to have choreography, which means time to come up with the choreography. Then you need rehearsals to learn that dance, perfect that dance, and you need styling and makeup and hair.

28:23 It’s a big old thing to invest in, and a lot of suits out there aren’t willing to make that investment. Hm. Although videos, it’s a crucial component of great videos. Yes. Huge.

28:35 Right. I mean, that was, when we won a VMA Moonman for Best Dancing in a Video and Best Dance video I actually got to get the mic and say my thank you and I did everything I could to stand for dance in that moment was just like you know it to all your dancers it never get the support of the you know the point the the finger pointed at you for the great work that you do this is for you from making music look amazing because it’s true like dance doesn’t really get its moment yeah it doesn’t and like you put like a Beyonce video and all these great stars I mean there’s a dance component in there it’s happening in the background but we forget about it sometimes. You must have seen very talented women that didn’t have the drive. You must have seen better dancers than you come by and yet they couldn’t hack it. Absolutely. Work ethic is probably 90% of being a successful dancer or entertainer really. I have a serious work ethic. Not many people can match my work ethic. Like I have dancers that I work with and you know when I’m when I’m serious about putting a performance together there’s no marking it’s full out the entire time. It’s eight hours of serious dancing. I think work ethic is everything in being a professional.

29:48 What’s marking? Marking means walking through the moves instead of doing it full out. Go full on. Yes. Okay, so when you’re doing that, you’re in the mirror, you’re eight hours, you’re going full on in motion.

29:58 If it’s a performance in heels, I’m eight hours in heels making sure it feels right in your feet and in your heels and in your shoes and just I don’t want any guesses when you get on stage. You got to know exactly what’s coming. What happens when your feet hurt? You ignore it. When women complain about walking around in heels, do you always kind of go, try dancing in them?

30:18 Yeah. Yeah. I wear heels a lot less than I used to. I think seven years of Pussycat Dolls stilettos was enough to put me off of stilettos a bit, although I’ve got them on today, so. Yeah, and I appreciate it.

30:30 All right. I’m going to rewind back to that video. So you did that shoot. You got through it three days, two days, 24-hour cycles. Yeah, it was crazy.

30:38 Tons of ideas, production, going through that. It was a beautiful piece of work. But you got your, you must have been happy with what you did. Although you never know until they cut it, right? So you’re like, they might cut me out of it entirely.

30:50 Even though you’re jumping on the trampoline and you did get that shot, by the way. I mean, bam, you were there. You’re one of the first cuts in the first part of the video in that blue room. Like, so, you know, they were choosing you. And you, I agree, I saw it today and some of the girls are blending together and you’re not, you’re there.

31:05 So did you know you had it at the end of that? Or talk to me about those next few weeks, few months. No, I didn’t know I had it. When we first sat down for that record deal, there was over 12 girls in the group. And the cuts were happening every day, basically.

31:22 And the stress of it was giving me serious acne, cystic acne. It was horrific. So my confidence was extremely low. And going into that video, I had no idea what was going to happen. but I wanted to show just how much of an asset I could be to the group.

31:39 And from that day forward, I mean, as soon as I met Robin, I started getting involved in choreography. I was helping the choreographer, Mikey Minden. I was assisting him. I was staying after rehearsals four plus hours to help other girls learn the choreography, help them perfect it, help them feel good. I was helping with costumes.

31:59 I was helping go source the costumes, helping create the costumes, helping sew the costumes, helping put the Pussycat Dolls lounge together in Caesars Palace, like I would do anything and everything to show that I was a team player and I wanted to make this a success and would be involved in any way I possibly could. And management sees that. And management does see that, yeah. And I think that Robin sort of definitely started to see that and it was always quite difficult because it was a 50-50 partnership.

32:30 We were the first 360 deal done in the music industry, Meaning, you know, previous to that, all deals were, the label and the artist splits funds from the record, but the artist would keep money from touring and merchandise and everything else so they could really rake it in. We were sort of the guinea pigs of a 360 deal. So now, it’s always, when you sign with a label, pretty much, it’s a share. So it’s, you know, they have a hand in everything that you do.

33:00 You share your merchandise, you share your touring, and you share everything with this sort of label. Which maybe means someone like you is an asset to them because they know you can do everything and keep the whole thing together and help everywhere. Yeah. Is that a correct assumption? That’s what I would like to think in my head.

33:14 That’s why I was doing it. Were the girls thinking, okay, this is not fair. It’s a 360 deal back in the day. We would have got this, we would have got that. I mean, that must be hard.

33:22 We have six members. Yeah, it was. It was extremely difficult, but we all know that we were in it for a time. It was always meant to be a springboard or stepping stone to what comes next. Pussycat Dolls was always set up as a brand, it was always a show, and there was probably over 50 girls that were in that show previous to me.

33:42 I got lucky, I got to be in the recording group and go on tour and carry on that success and be called one of the decade’s most successful girl groups. It’s incredible and fantastic, but Pussycat Dolls was never meant to be for us as individuals, a forever gig. Okay, all right, and that’s good. So it’s not like promises were made that weren’t fulfilled. It was like, like you said, it was a brand before.

34:09 You knew you were going in, 360 deal. It’s Robin, is it Robin and Jimmy that are making these calls? Yeah, Robin and Jimmy. Okay, I’m sure you have some fascinating stories about that. Oh, I love both of them very much.

34:18 It’s just, I was watching this whole thing and I mean, I’m doing my research and reading through all the Wikipedia stuff and I’m just like, what a strange beast it must be to be in Los Angeles, in the center of this music industry, in the center of a huge brand, with egos, and funds, and tours, and money, and celebrity, and it must be, I mean, you could write a crazy book, or you could probably make a movie that’s stranger than fiction. I definitely could, yeah. I mean, LA in itself is a whirlwind of people wanting to be something that they’re not yet.

34:53 It’s kind of a, it’s a crazy place to live, but for an entertainer, it’s where you go to get that gig, to do what you love. And it doesn’t come without serious work ethic. It doesn’t come without serious practice, and really taking on opportunities and going for it. But ultimately, the entertainment business can chew you up and spit you out if you don’t have hard skin. And you do have to be hardened to it.

35:14 There are egos everywhere. There’s tons of chefs in the kitchen. Everybody is sort of money oriented. And all I ever was was a girl that just wanted to dance. All right, so those next few weeks you shoot the video they cut it I guess it probably takes a couple months to come out When did you know that you were in the band or at least temporarily yeah, and that you guys were gonna be big Well, I never knew I was ever sort of in the band forever because we were always told we were all pretty much replaceable Okay, so I was fighting for that Except for Nicole. The entire time I was in it except for Nicole. Maybe she was told but she didn’t believe it No, I think Nicole knew it was kind of okay. She was solid. She was alright. She was safe The rest of us not so much implied you were replaceable or told told. Okay. All right. Yeah, just keep you on your game Yeah, it’s not a positive environment to work in. Oh, it’s not a very positive environment to work it Okay, but it’s just part of the deal. It is it’s part of the deal. That’s what you’re signing up for Yeah, and they they wanted it to be a brand that would consistently make money So, you know doing those hours upon hours of dancing and videos and getting the bruises for them and giving it you’re all You know you get the edit back and maybe you’re in it for five ten seconds because ultimately they wanted it to keep going and the more they put the focus on

36:25 Nicole the more replaceable they could make us and they felt that then they could just take the brand forever and ever and ever and just keep rolling them out. It didn’t end up happening that way but that’s kind of what we knew we were in for. Okay do you think they ever worried that we’re putting too much you know of our of our of our chips on Nicole do you think they thought let’s just spread it out a little bit just in case this or that or was it just not gonna happen I have no idea okay no idea I mean okay fair enough all right so she just had this arrangement with them where they were like all right you’re gonna be this front person yeah okay next few months after that video when did when do you know that you were like I gotta strap my seatbelt on this is gonna get really crazy do you remember that moment where you’re just like wait a second this is really blowing up yeah I do it was in London actually we’d flown over to do promo and press for it and as we stopped at the hotel to go in there There was fans everywhere, everywhere.

37:19 And I never really, I don’t know, I just didn’t ever sign up for the fame game or the celebrity game or any of that. Come on, you went to LA, you’re a dancer. Yeah, but dancers don’t really get that sort of treatment. So to get out of the van to go into the hotel and everybody be screaming at you and wanting your autograph, little shy of me, I just put my head down and kept walking and pretended they weren’t there because I didn’t know how to handle it. And you’re 22, 23.

37:42 Yeah, yeah, must’ve been. How did you deal with the fame? I mean, you know, I’ve spoken to lots of people here that it happens early on to them. I mean, do you think it’s hard to come back from getting that famous that young?

37:57 I think it’s hard to deal with the fact that I’ve been in a group that reached incredible heights because we had such a platform with Jimmy Iveen and Interscope and, you know, it was a train. And then to leave that, I know that to compete with that is just never gonna happen. Like I don’t wanna work as hard as I had to as a pussycat doll to be that successful and that famous. But I think that on that journey to figuring out happiness, I realize that balance is everything.

38:28 I don’t wanna be Beyonce. I don’t want everybody to know me and chase me down the street and whatnot. I just wanna dance. I wanna make a difference. By doing television, I realize that working with kids and mentoring them, I could really make a difference in their lives and I love doing that work and I love teaching And wellness has become such a huge part of my life.

38:47 And having a good balance between all of that has always been something that I started to really believe in. And then that’s when my love for dance really started to ignite again. So I guess, in a way, I knew that I didn’t want that whole fame thing. I get to tap into it here, there, and everywhere. I get to win Celebrity MasterChef.

39:07 And I get to do TV shows and whatnot. But primarily, my work is more about focusing on what matters for me. I’m not chasing the numbers on Instagram, I’m not chasing the numbers on Twitter, not chasing all of that stuff. If it comes, it comes, but my work is my dance. It’s my kids, it’s making a difference, it’s being a mom, it’s being a wife, and hopefully making that 50-50 balance between career and having a life.

39:33 That’s what makes me happy, it makes me feel fulfilled. I guess once you hit the numbers of pussycat dolls, it’s like you don’t need to go back there. People looking for Instagram followers probably have never been there before. You know, you’ve seen it. You were seven years there, right?

39:46 Six, seven years? Yeah, about seven years. Things you remember, highs and lows of those seven years. You know, from 03, 04, 05, 6, 7, 8. Like, what are some of the things you remember?

39:55 I’m sure you remember different things now. Yeah. As you get older. I’m sure you have a different perspective on the whole thing. I definitely do.

40:01 You know, time heals a lot of things and even though it was a very difficult situation, the positive memories definitely outweigh the negative ones. And I guess, ultimately, the things that I doped upon are the times when all of us girls were so goofy with each other. We would make each other laugh all the time. We’re in this little bubble of being here, there, and everywhere, and living on a tour bus, and going on stage, and being each other’s shoulders to cry on, and whatnot.

40:27 I miss those moments. I love those girls. Every single one of them is beautiful, and extremely talented, and an incredible force to share a stage with. Being able to get the moon men for best dancing in a video and best dance video, I mean that’s the dance dream come true. Very proud of that.

40:45 That was awesome. And that was for don’t ya? That was for don’t ya and when I grow up I believe, no it was buttons and when I grow up. Okay. Yeah.

40:55 Okay. So those are the big kind of highlights. Those are the big ones. Then of course like you know performing at the O2 and having the entire arena singing stick with you and knowing every single lyric, every single word was just amazing. Okay.

41:07 That’s big. And, you know, when you look at it, I mean, this is a whole thing that was kind of constructed as a brand and run by this company and this choreographer. It’s kind of amazing to me that it even lasted that long. Because like also with a weird power dynamic with kind of Nicole is kind of the front person and the rest of you being told you might go at any point. That seems like a two year scenario, you know, before everybody goes.

41:29 How did it stay together for so long? Because we loved it, because we loved it and we made it fun amongst the hard times We really pulled together each one of us and wanted to be there and wanted to dance and I guess probably a little part of us hoped that the situation might get better and it could consistently continue. But yeah, ultimately we really believed in us as a group and believed in our dynamic together, believed in our talents combined and just really felt like we were making some serious headway as the Pussycat Dolls.

42:04 It was an amazing journey, an amazing ride, I think all of us probably gave it absolutely everything. Okay. Nicole, the front woman, and even in that first video, it was obvious that there’s this front woman in me. Even if I can’t speak English, I can say, okay, this kink’s kind of happening. How do you think of her objectively as a person, as a performer, as someone that’s a superstar?

42:29 She seems extremely driven, and I met a lot of driven people that have sat in that chair, And it’s a great thing, but it also can be a terrible thing because people are just driven to the point of they can’t stop sometimes, and I’ve been there as well. Yeah, me too. What do you see in Nicole? I mean, at the core of Nicole is a goofball that likes to have a good time, loves to have a nice dinner, and loves to laugh. The business part of Nicole is extremely driven, extremely determined.

42:57 She knows what she wants. She’s a force to be reckoned with. She’s extremely talented. And yeah, she’s a beautiful soul. And I think her work ethic sometimes gets the best of her.

43:09 Yeah. Right. And it was a role reversal where she was you and you were her, you know, with the same kind of personalities that each one of you had. I mean, I guess if you think of it that way, is this the way it was always going to play out at some point, where it was just going to, the group was going to be like, well, we don’t know if we want to be a part of this anymore. Yeah, probably.

43:27 Okay. See the powers that be weren’t ever really in a situation of wanting to listen or help make a situation be easier to be talented in or dance in or sing in or be a part of. But you know you just never can tell. I think that groups in general usually have a seven year lifespan. I don’t know many boy or girl groups that have lasted longer, of course there are some.

43:57 But it’s a tough old thing, music, and the music industry is not getting any easier. And with having an online platform, it’s incredible, it gives so many people a chance to show their work and be an artist and go out there and explore, but it also means that it’s really watered down the industry and it makes it difficult to have success like we did as the Pussycat Dolls. We were kind of on the cusp of all the, you know, Twitter was launching, I think the last year we were together and and now it’s just a different beast and who knows there could be a pussycat doll something in the future not gonna wait for that but it was an incredible thing to be a part of. Yeah maybe it feels to me like there wouldn’t be another one that with that impact oh who knows yeah but it was like you said it was kind of pre-internet pre-youtube and it was like this big bet by Interscope and then also about kind of a proven brand kind of idea with pussycat and then you know as Busta Rhymes once said Jimmy He said, we’re going to put the building behind it.

44:55 That’s what he said. That’s exactly what Jimmy said. That’s what he says, right? So you got a big company putting everything in, which doesn’t just mean money and capital. It means all the connections, all of this, all of that.

45:05 We want this played in number one. Best producers, best songwriters, best everything. And that came out on the videos on everything. You can really see that. Yes, absolutely.

45:14 2010, how do you deal with being the ex pussycat? Is it hard at first? Was it a breath of fresh air? What was it like those couple years after? It was a lot of things.

45:26 It was a mixture of being free, wanting to try new things, wanting to spread my wings, not knowing where to go, not knowing what to do, not knowing who I am. I had become this image, this persona, this punk doll. And I lived like that for over seven years. And now it’s like, OK, so nobody’s telling me what I need to look like or do or how I’m supposed to dance, or any of that. So I now get to make all those choices myself.

45:55 And I would say that for a few years, it was trying new things, probably 90% of the time falling flat on my face, failing at things, trying again, getting back up, getting back in the studio, trying again. But the consistent was got to dance, being on that show, judging, being in front of dance, performing on that show, doing live to dance in the States, Being next to who, as a kid, was my absolute idol, was Paula Abdul. Sitting next to her is now a judge right next to the idol from when I was a kid.

46:27 It was quite surreal. But I guess, ultimately, it kept me in touch with that dance world. And it was almost like dance was consistently there for me, saying, hey, you’re coming back to it in a second. Just you be ready. And yeah, I did Her Majesty and the Wolves.

46:42 It was great to get in the studio, be able to write the songs, help produce the songs, created an album I’m extremely proud of. I wanted to do the Festival Circuit. I got to do the Festival Circuit. I loved that. I did a cosmetics range.

46:55 It became quite successful, but the business part of it wasn’t right. I was looking for something that felt quite good. So moved on, changed, tried something new, did some solo music, didn’t quite feel right, couldn’t quite get the vibe with the right producers. Songs weren’t exactly speaking to me, so kind of parked that. And then I found myself sort of sitting at the House of Lords with Baroness Sue Campbell.

47:19 Almost unable to speak. Yeah. Because I was so in awe of this building that I was in and the history that it has. And we just had a nice little chat about what I’m into and what my focus is. And this was sort of the beginnings of me becoming the youth sport trust ambassador.

47:36 And I just shared my thoughts about kids needing someone to inspire them with wellness, to help with emotional health. Looking at all the statistics of the selfie generation and what it’s doing to our youth and the rise in depression and anxieties and image anxieties in young kids is staggering. And working with so many kids on the television show and seeing how I could really make a difference, I was speaking to the bareness about this. And there’s a certain boy named Caner who’s an incredible dancer.

48:09 He’s autistic, he was 19 when he came on the show. I was mentoring him, he’s a bone breaker. Bone breaking is a type of dance that makes it look like you’re breaking your bones. Okay, but it’s street. It’s street, yes.

48:21 Okay, bone breaker. Bone breaker. And in rehearsal, he’s doing his moves, he’s been living on the street for a very long time because he was autistic and his family didn’t know how to create the right environment for him and you could see he just felt really misunderstood. And in the studio it’s like, Well, what is your purpose behind the movement? What are you trying to say?

48:41 What are you trying to portray? What do you want to tell people? And we came to the point of the fact that he does feel misunderstood and he’s got this story and he wants others to go through what he’s going and be inspired by the fact that if you believe in something that it can take you somewhere. So all of a sudden we made those psychological switches and he started putting those sorts of emotions, that sort of story into everything that he was doing. And when he stepped on stage, it was electric.

49:08 And I was like, oh, it was just planting that little seed inside of him of what does something mean? What does purpose mean to you? What is purpose in dance? What is purpose in life? How does that all come together?

49:19 And from there, he’s been doing tours with FKA twigs, he’s been doing documentaries, he’s been choreographing, he’s been doing amazing things. So I was sharing that story with the Baroness, and we’ve sort of teamed up together, and I’ve been coming up with a program called WellFit. stands for wellness, fit for fitness, and it’s wellness and fitness through the power of dance. So, I’ve been working with primary-age kids because between the ages of six to eight is when a child decides how they feel about their body and, you know, the amounts of obesity and things that is happening in this country now is staggering, so there really does need to be a difference made.

49:59 And I did sort of a five-school tour doing sort of my idea of how we can infuse emotional activities and show that we can plant those seeds of emotional health within primary age kids as well as dance and kind of the feedback that I got through doing this school tour was just phenomenal. Kids love it. This country loves to dance. Why is dance so important? Is dance the opposite of a selfie? Because you’re in the moment and you’re being present and you’re in your own body and you’re doing something as opposed to looking at what you look like?

50:29 Oh, hello. Yes, it is. It’s about being in that moment, being a part of the story that you’re trying to portray, becoming the music. It is, it makes you live in that. But also dance is the capability, has the capability as a fitness thing to kind of put everything aside of the seriousness of lifting weights and the seriousness of running and the seriousness of all these sports and smile and have fun and you don’t have to dress a certain way, you can dress however you want, look however you want and dance.

51:04 And I think people love that, families love that, kids love that and this country wants it. And I know as a kid for me going to school, you know, I tried all the sports and I just didn’t fit into those things so luckily I had a dance school but a lot of kids can’t afford going to a dance school and they don’t have this ability to find dance for themselves So I’m trying to find a way to bring dance to physical education amongst schools in the country. It’s interesting to hear that dancers are autistic and dancers are introverts, because when we see dancers, or even you on the videos, you’re like, oh, I bet Kimberly, she parties all the time, she’s the life of the party, she’s hanging out.

51:41 Whereas, like you said, a lot of times, there are people that actually don’t know how to express themselves verbally, and that’s how they get it all out. It’s so true, it’s so true, and dance talks to everybody. Dance is a universal language. Just like they say music is, I think dance is more so. It’s primitive.

51:57 It’s a way of communicating without having to speak. And it’s an incredible thing to go around the country dancing and seeing what an impact it makes in people’s lives. Luckily, Pussycat Dolls gave me that. Somehow, it’s landed me in this country. And I’ve found that I can really make a difference.

52:13 People want to listen. People want to dance. And we’re just at the cusp of making great things happen through dance. Steve Jobs said, I think at a Stanford graduation ceremony that you know you you can’t see how to connect the dots until you look back and then you can say oh yeah that’s what happened yeah maybe this is some warrior dots coming into place I would like to think you know it’s really a strange coincidence that six months ago I started dancing and so we had a guest on the show his name is Edo Portal and he’s this movement expert and so he was on two years ago and then a year ago and then we did this moving conversation where we walked through London we walked in Green Park and we I almost got arrested for filming, we put rings up in the tree, it’s a long story.

52:54 But you know, Edo got me thinking about moving in a different way. Before that, I was the martial arts guy, which is kind of the tough guy. The lifting guy, which is the tough guy. And you’re right in the gym, no one’s smiling, right? Everyone’s pounding it out and they’re serious.

53:06 And I did that for a long time and it was great. But I forgot that I needed to express myself, that I forgot how much the mind can improve when the body moves. I forgot about this link between the two. And so now, I’m almost getting thrown out of the gym because I’m dancing, I’m goofing around. I’ve got a scab on my head here because my windmill is almost there from my B-Boy windmill.

53:25 But I’m spinning around. You’re a bad one, yeah. I know, it’s hard. I’m wondering, do you have a windmill? I never windmilled.

53:31 Okay. I’ve done it with TRX cables, but that’s about it. Oh, you have? Okay, that looks cool, yeah. But I’m discovering this and I practice in the parks here in London and people walk by and old people and young people and they just stop and watch me even when I’m doing basic stuff.

53:43 And so it communicates to people. It does. And it is a beautiful thing, I think. and I think people need to get those emotions out. You could argue in this country, maybe more than others, where we do repress a lot of emotions here, and we usually get it out when we have 10 pints or go to a football match, so maybe it’s good to get it out and dance.

54:00 Absolutely. And there’s new ways of moving, like Ido Pertau and the things that he’s doing. There’s animal flow, there’s calisthenics, there’s so many new things coming that’s about sort of pushing your body to the limit, but using more of your own body weight, and it’s incredible what people are achieving through that. Yeah, I love it. I was doing one of his lizard walks on the ground.

54:19 Yeah, my husband practiced that part of the discipline. So I was doing this lizard walk and if you go like 10 meters, you get really tired and I was down there and I kind of flipped over to my back and then I remembered a breakdancing move in my head. And I grew up in San Diego, kind of in the East San Diego neighborhood and I was at school with a lot of Hispanics and they were always doing breakdancing when I was a kid. I wasn’t, but they were. And so then I started, and I remember Ido said, learn to dance, take a dance class, do this, do this. And so I just started doing this path on my own.

54:45 And so, yeah, it is incredible. It’s great that everyone’s thinking about these different ways of moving. So it’s kind of perfect timing that you’re doing this. It is, it has been perfect timing, just because in the things that I’ve been doing, people have really gotten behind it and are really supporting it. And now even my well-fit sort of pledge, which is number one, never say I can’t.

55:08 Number two, always say I’ll try. And number three, do your best. These were sort of the three rules I’ve always lived by, and it’s taken me to the height of all heights for me. And that’s what I learned from my dance teachers as a kid. And so now I’m using these pledges to try and get people and kids involved in WellFit and bring some of the wellness and fitness activities that I’m sort of putting out there to kind of bring them into their home and try them out and see if it works for them.

55:37 Because you never know if you’re a dancer until you give it a go. And is this aimed at the six to eight-year-olds or aimed at anybody in the young ages? It’s aimed at everybody, but the program itself in schools at the moment is aimed at ages six to eight because we think that that’s where we can make the biggest difference because that’s when kids are really trying to figure out who they are, how they feel, how they feel about the way that they look. Pretty much the ages for a lot of kids where they’re starting to get into social media, which is a whole other bag of worms.

56:08 And so they need it. need sort of these emotional health, they need to realize how they can help themselves be happier kids, happier people. I think most people don’t realize how early that develops in like children’s psyches and before I had children of my own I did a mentoring program here in the UK called Chance UK, it’s a really good program and for a year I mentored this young boy and he was nine when I first met him and I was like isn’t that a little young and they’re like nine’s almost too old to get great habits and build self-esteem, like you really have to do it early.

56:37 You do. So it’s interesting that you say that, because you wouldn’t think a seven-year-old would need to be thinking positively about their body, but it’s probably going younger these days with the selfies. Exactly. Talk to me about cooking. MasterChef, my girlfriend’s jealous, you do all these things and you’re getting, you know, you’re winning that.

56:54 Yeah. But before we talk about that, you’ve been pretty much adopted by this country. People love you, you’re like one of theirs. How did that happen? I’d like to think so.

57:03 Did you cut some deal with the Baroness, or what happens? Luckily got to dance kept having me back so I think being in this country quite consistently I started falling in love with the culture and the people and I think really winning MasterChef it gave me a chance and a platform to show people a different side of me because the dance side of me especially as a judge I’m very serious I’m very honest I’m there to make a difference so what I’m saying has some relevance that you can take home with you so when you go back to the dance studio you can improve yourself that’s a different side of me cooking, I don’t know what I’m doing, I’m trying my hardest, I’m telling myself I can’t and having to do 10 push-ups because that’s the rule for well fit every time I get in that MasterChef kitchen and it was just the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

57:49 If you say you can’t get to 10 push-ups. Yeah. Okay, good. Oh yeah. So it was hard.

57:54 It was hard. Okay. It was really hard. Every time I would get in that lineup to go in the kitchen I would feel like I was going to lose my cookies, like everything was going to be out there and I would go in and we’d have the timer start and you start your your food preparation and I’d pick up the knife and I would just be shaking like a leaf and you know after dancing and performing to thousands around the world I’m not used to feeling that way but it was I think I’m you know going through that process and then winning I’ve I felt a real shift I think people in this country got to see the real me and the me that maybe they they wanted to see and they feel they can connect with not the perfectionist dancer me And it was a win that meant a lot.

58:35 You know, I found my husband is English, and you know, I feel more at home here than I do anywhere else around the world. Now I had just had my little girl who’s now about a year and a half, and at the moment of doing MasterChef, she was only four months old. So, you know, I was staying up all night to practice my dishes, getting up, being a mom, then going to work, doing cooking all day long, being judged, hot lights, Greg and John asking me all these questions.

59:03 And then going home and being a mom again, putting her to bed and then back in the kitchen to try again. So it was a long slog. And it took every ounce of everything that I have to get to that final. And when they said that I had won, I don’t know if I’ve been more proud of the work and more proud to feel accepted by a foreign country and to feel like life was going to be OK. I was gonna be an okay mom, I’m gonna be able to make good food for my family and for my little girl and hopefully it was a moment that one day she’ll be able to look back and be proud of her mummy for and all those emotions definitely came flying through when they called the winner.

59:44 Well, it’s an individual. It is. Win for you. Yeah. As opposed to part of this whole machine.

59:50 Yeah. So that’s new and also, I mean, cooking is, let’s be honest, a different way of communicating. Oh. Right? Because I’m so used to dancing and using everything and then all of a sudden have to to pull it all in and just use the mind and your chops and your fingers and it was just a lot of sort of yeah trying to box it all in to focus on getting the job done but I learned a lot we worked with so many different chefs that I learned so much from lots of different techniques and now you know I have more kitchen confidence than I could have ever dreamed of. Yeah sounds like you like to push yourself and try things you know it’s a good idea. You said London you never felt at home in this city more than anywhere else in the world okay and you’ve been everywhere else in the world and you lived in LA for a long time. Why London? Why not LA when people tell you how can you leave the beach?

1:00:35 What do you say? Be honest. I’m from California. You won’t offend me. I don’t like LA. I think LA is the land of dreams and that is great but to live a life there it’s you’re stuck in the entertainment whirlwind and once you’re in that, it’s hard to get out.

1:00:55 Everybody is absolutely drop dead gorgeous. Nobody wears a lot of clothes because there’s lots of sun out. So what that does to your confidence is kind of crazy. And then, you know, everybody’s doing auditions and getting rejected. So, you know, everyone’s trying to then put a facade up about, no, I’m really spiritual and I’m really positive and everything’s great, but inside I’m crying.

1:01:19 And I just felt like that was kind of the consistent feel of LA. I’ve met a lot of great people. I’ve got a lot of great friends in LA, but I just knew it wasn’t the place for me. It wasn’t the place I ever wanted to raise a family. And I never knew where I was going to end up.

1:01:37 But I knew that London kept calling. And it kept bringing me back. And I kept having experiences and awesome opportunities. And what I loved about coming here is when I would sit down from meeting with people, I didn’t feel like I was sifting through all this LA fluff of everything’s great we’re gonna make you a star and it’s just amazing it was just like no this is what it is you know where our hearts on our sleeves I’m not gonna bull crap you about anything here you go I was just so thankful for that so tired of sifting through what I’d like to call the LA fluff it was just so refreshing and then when I started to see different parts of London going to Primrose Hill and seeing these beautiful views of the city or Hampstead Heath And kind of seeing the greenery and going to the countryside, I started to have a real affinity and then of course falling in love with my husband just made the grass greener and the trees more amazing and his love of his country, his love and his pride of being from here and sort of representing England.

1:02:41 He takes that quite seriously and he loves it and he likes to show me around and show my friends around because he just thinks it’s a beautiful country and I think that really rubbed off on me. And yeah, as soon as we were making plans for family and future, it was just kind of a done deal. I was always waiting for life, for the universe, whatever, to show me where I was going to end up. Where I was going to have a husband, where I was going to have family, and right there was all my signs.

1:03:11 Ding, ding, ding. It’s here. And what about the weather? What about the winters? I love the winters, and I love the weather.

1:03:17 See, back in Missouri, the one thing I miss was the crazy thunderstorms and lightning. I love that. And here, what I love about having pretty crap weather a lot of the time is that when it’s sunny, nobody takes it for granted. Everybody pours into the parks, everybody’s looking for a good time, the spirits are high. Whereas in L.A., we just took the sun for granted so much, it’s like, ugh, another beautiful day.

1:03:41 What are we going to do with this? I love that you don’t take the sun for granted. And when it comes to holidays, I want cold, I want snow, I want crap, that’s what makes it feel special. It’s so amazing. It’s just a matter of perspective.

1:03:52 You can come here and think the complete opposite. People come here and they don’t know London well, they don’t know the UK well, and they start saying things that aren’t even true, but they’ve heard them like, oh, the food’s bad. It’s like, this is the best food in the world. You just have to find it. And like all these other things, like the weather and all those things, but with the right perspective, it can be the most wonderful place.

1:04:10 With the wrong perspective, it will be the worst place in the world. Absolutely. like I’m from San Diego, I spent a couple summers in LA working in aerospace and stuff and every time I go back there I have a hard time with it and recently I stayed on Hollywood Boulevard at some hotel there and I just walked out and it was right across from my man’s Chinese theater and it was just this culture of celebrity that just seeped through everything where it’s like someone’s more important than you and just that basic thing alone like this person’s more important than you and that means you have to look at them and then you’re not important, and it just got this weird vibe to me, and I didn’t like it, and I’ve never understood the city, I’ve never understood what’s going on, I don’t know, I always have a hard time when I go there, I’ve tried so many times, I hang out in Venice, I go to Santa Monica, but the whole thing just feels weird to me, so I don’t go.

1:04:58 I completely agree. And like the fluff that you’re talking about, you always hear that typical stuff, and movies make fun of it, but I guess it’s hard, because like you said, everyone’s putting up the facade, also I think everything’s so intertwined with deals that you don’t wanna make enemies because it’ll come around and so everyone has to kind of give this outward feel to people that blah, blah, blah. Whereas I think in London it’s a city of politics and business and I think people are more likely just to say whatever.

1:05:25 Absolutely, absolutely. And I think LA has a lot of middlemen which is a lot of people that kind of had dreams to become something then didn’t quite get it so then they become managers or agents or something or producers or whatever it might be And then that bitterness of not being able to make it and having to take another, it just sort of seeps down. And I just think, yeah, like you said, there’s such a huge sort of platform for those that feel like they’re the A-list celebrities and anything else is a bit different.

1:05:55 And I just think that, you know, like we were talking about, ego is the enemy. Like, LA is built on ego. The bigger ego you have, pretty much the more celebrated you are. And I just don’t subscribe to that. Yeah.

1:06:06 You notice the book we have over there. It’s by Ryan Holiday. He’s been a guest a couple times. great writer, Stoick, you saw that title and you’re like, yeah, ego is the enemy. What did you mean when you said that?

1:06:15 I think the ego is the enemy. I think that the root of pressure and the root of sort of being somebody that you probably don’t want to be is because that ego is alive. It’s telling you that you need to be something better. It’s telling you that you’re above other people. And I don’t think there is such thing as being above anyone, whether you’re a celebrity or a huge talent or whatever it may be, you don’t have to be something that you’re not in order to be revered as being the best.

1:06:46 You can just be human. We’re trying to categorize all these different types of people and put them in boxes and turn them against each other. And I think that it’s the egos, it’s the narcissists that are kind of leading that battle. And it’s one that I don’t wanna subscribe to. And I think that society uses it a lot, especially because beauty sells, beauty sells a lot.

1:07:07 They want you to feel like you’re crap, so you go out there and you buy the face creams and you buy this and that and that and that and that and that and that and it just becomes this battle to become something that you’re not. And I think that, you know, all the ads sort of feed into your egotistical side of needing something that you don’t have that’s beyond you so that that chase continually happens for the rest of your life, but I don’t want to chase it, I just want to be me. And I think it’s important that we start telling our kids that you don’t have to to subscribe to that.

1:07:37 You don’t have to buy a gazillion things to be happy. You don’t have to be a celebrity to be a cool person. You just have to be you. And I use my slogans for my older kids amongst welfare. Be you, be fearless, be authentic.

1:07:52 And it just kind of goes in a nice big circle. I’m reading a lot of books from Paulo Qualo and Malcolm Gladwell and different authors that really inspired a new direction for me, a new journey. And it’s helped me come into a place of just being OK with being me. And I think it’s a great place to be. And if I go into a room, and I’m not the most revered person, I’m not going home like, oh my god, I didn’t know who I was.

1:08:19 I didn’t know my name. It doesn’t really matter. Right, but you had that in the past. Yeah, I had it, or I saw it, or I was amongst it. And I just saw that you can be super successful.

1:08:30 You can have all the money in the world, all the fame in the world, all the everything, you still won’t be happy if you’re still chasing that ego. Can you tell me about, I always think that it takes some type of ego though to be that person. Like for you, when you were a dancer, you’re like, I’m gonna get this done and I’m gonna be the best and I’m gonna take those street dance classes until I can be the best. And that kind of got you to where you are. So I always go back and forth between the ego and I always think you need some of it to kind of be your best self and to take risks like you took and put yourself out there and be a role model for your daughter.

1:09:05 So, I don’t know, there is some component, right? I will say that perfectionism is an amazing thing. Obsession is an amazing thing to a certain point. But ultimately, Miss Jo, one of my lead teachers as a kid, used to always say, no matter how good you are, there is someone out there in this world that is better than you. And I think that just gives you a level of groundedness of knowing that as good as I’m ever gonna be As perfect as I ever see that reflection in the mirror of all these dances that I’m doing, ultimately someone’s always gonna be better.

1:09:37 So the struggle never ends, and the journey to be your best never ends. There’s never a pinnacle moment where you’ve reached it. And I think we’re quite consistently as a human race always reaching for an end point, always reaching for that moment where everybody knows your name and your name is in lights and all of this stuff. It’s not real. Well, you’ve been there.

1:09:58 I’ve been there. It’s not real. ultimately find something that you love, find something that you’re passionate about, find things in life that make you feel fulfilled, because that’s where it exists. And for me, you know, I think for a while I thought there was an end goal in dance, but now I realize that my end goal is just to consistently dance for the rest of my life. And I found by staying true to my talent and trying my best to not let the negativities get the best of me and just focus on getting in that dance studio and dancing and feeling good. It’s it’s given me great platforms and great opportunities and I really realized that at six months pregnant being able to get on stage of Got to Dance and still dance for an audience you know not many pregnant women have had the opportunity to dance in front of an audience and it just made me think you know gosh all I ever really want to do all that really makes me feel fulfilled is working on myself being a good person giving back having balance and not having an ego.

1:10:54 It’s about the journey, not the destination with your dates. Always, yeah. But for a long time, you thought it was a destination. We all still think that. You’ve kind of had a great glimpse into what that might look like, and so you might have learned this lesson a little quicker.

1:11:07 Maybe. Maybe. But I don’t think that the lesson ever ends. I think I still find myself in a situation where maybe that ego is like, hey! But it’s going back and having my rituals.

1:11:18 Wellness, for me, is having my journal, being able to write my journal, having essential oils to deal with my emotional wellness, eating really good foods, knowing where my food comes from, understanding how to locally get your food, grow your own food. It’s being sustainable. It’s having solar energy. It’s the things that I think is moving in a more positive direction for us, for me, for my family. What are some of your daily practices to be successful?

1:11:46 I mean, you talk about journaling. Do you have a routine? Do you meditate in the morning? Do you, you know, do affirmations? Is there something that you found really gave you like a big change when you started doing this thing?

1:11:59 These success secrets are only available on the London Real Academy. Become a member and get access to live shows, exclusive courses, my webinars, bonus content, meetups, live events, an amazing community, and much, much more. Now back to the rest of the show. What’s your relationship right now with social media, with media, with selfies yourself and that kind of thing? I mean, like, you know, especially it’s interesting from your, because you’ve been everywhere.

1:12:34 You’ve been seen by so many people. You’re laughing at me. Why? Oh, because I just wanna dance. I didn’t sign up to being, you know, a beauty pageant.

1:12:42 I didn’t sign up to being good at Instagram. I didn’t sign up to being good at Twitter. I didn’t sign up to being a brand, but we’re forced to be brands now. So I feel like I’m kind of playing catch up. Yeah, I mean, all I ever wanted to do was dance.

1:12:56 And I grew up in a world where you just train all day, every day, and you go to an audition, you either get the job or you don’t, but you just keep dancing. But now it’s like, OK, I get to dance, but I have to take a picture of it because it has to go on Instagram, because if I don’t, then I might not get that job. Or this company is looking at my Instagram. They don’t think my numbers are big enough, so they might not give me the deal. And it’s just like, oh my gosh, I have to do so many more things which takes my time away from doing the thing that I’m good at so it’s a bit of a it’s a brain mess for me because I I don’t really care to be a YouTube star an Insta star a Twitter star but it it really does make a difference in you as a business and now we are all taught and we have to be our own business and so I’m trying to figure out the balance and that and that’s been a tough one for me it’s tricky it’s tricky because if it ruins your present you know moment then it’s our whether you take the picture or not if you’re thinking about it it’s already changed your space and people are just living through their screens and I just think it’s such a shame and so you know I’m the kind of girl when I get home I put my phone down and I’m focused on all the things that I love doing I like writing and being a mom and cooking and doing all that stuff but I’m trying my best to have more balance within social media and my life and trying to find some sort of purpose to put into

1:14:15 These social accounts that we have to have in order to be talent or to be performers and I’m getting there. Yeah you’re aware of it which is good. Yeah because sometimes you can take it to the nth degree and you know in YouTube I mean I know a lot of very famous youtubers and the daily vlog thing is becoming very popular. You talk about something that consumes your life. Yeah.

1:14:33 Try recording your day every day then editing it and uploading the next day where you get to do it again. People have done this I’ve had people in that chair that have done it like a thousand days in a row and so I I honestly think this turns you into a mad person. I do. Because, like, what happens after, like, 900 days where you’re thinking about what you have to record to give your fans da da da da da da da da, it’s like selfie culture to the 10th power.

1:14:57 It really is. Yeah, I don’t know how they do it, but it’s a talent in itself. Social media and being good at it is a talent in itself, and I praise them for that, and I don’t sign up to it because I’m not the best at it, but I do make posts, I do my dance videos for Instagram and I try and give what I feel like people might want on Twitter and you know, share a little bit of my life but no, I wouldn’t say that I’m like a social anything. Fair enough. And your YouTube’s not going anywhere and we of course hail to the YouTube gods.

1:15:27 Absolutely. Which makes this all happen. Well done. You figured it out. Yeah, well you know, we do have a long form so it’s less selfie stuff.

1:15:34 Walk me through the tattoos that you showed me earlier on your body. Yes. I think they say a lot about who you are. This tattoo is love life, just through my realizations of what life is, what happiness is, what success is. Ultimately, I realize that the goal is just to enjoy every day and smile more than you frown and be a happy person.

1:15:55 And I think it’s important to have that reminder. So I got it on my wrist that if I’m brushing my hair or doing something in the mirror, I just have a reminder to just let go of all the crap and just be cool. Everything is fine. everything is good, love life, enjoy it. And you got this when you were in the dolls?

1:16:13 I did, towards the end. Okay, towards the end, all right, okay. A few of us got tattoos together in the dolls. Oh, okay, was that one of them, or y’all got different ones? Different ones, same time, same shop.

1:16:23 Same shop, okay. And then there’s one on my neck, just on the back of my neck, which is my mantra. So when I sort of really started getting into yoga, meditation, essential oils, angel cards, journals, all those sorts of things, I found this mantra that really kind of spoke to me, which is loka samastas yukino bhavantu, which means may all beings and all the world be happy and peaceful. So again, it’s just, it’s the way that I ground myself, clear my space, and you know, when I sort of sing my mantra, it just helps me, I don’t know, clear the space, clear the negativity in my mind, get rid of it so I can start fresh and hopefully, you know, fill myself with a bit more of the positive stuff rather than the negative.

1:17:07 And was that something you got early on as well? I got that one. Because that’s pretty deep. It was a very deep time in my life. That was probably about 10 years ago.

1:17:17 OK. Yeah. OK. So when you’re in the fray of everything. Yeah.

1:17:21 OK. Yeah. Because that’s young to have that kind of a realization. It was a bit of my epiphany. It was after the moment of realizing that I think the business side was pulling my love of dance away, that I needed to go figure out what life meant.

1:17:36 And that’s when I realized that happiness is probably of most importance rather than anything else. Your person, your space, your body, your temple, your everything is what your focus has to be on. You have to carve space out for you. And I think that by making sure that I have that space for me, I’m able to be a much happier person rather than an obsessed sort of dance success wanter. And I think because you’re a dancer, you have a relationship with your body more intimate than most people.

1:18:08 So I feel like you feed off of your body and get feedback from it and know it very much better than maybe people that don’t use it all the time. That’s true? Yeah. I would say that through having flexibility, through turning, through learning everything that dance is, it’s definitely given me a real relationship with my body and understanding of my bone structure and my muscle structure and doing yoga and meditation and learning about chakras and energy, I subscribe to those types of things.

1:18:38 I really do believe in energies and the ability to change energies and reiki and healing. I’m quite into that sort of thing. So by having that awareness and using that awareness when I’m dancing, when I’m doing yoga, when I’m doing anything really, I just think it helps me have a bigger connection to what I’m trying to get out of whatever it is that I’m doing and especially as a mom like you can see that when my child is going through emotions it can yank me straight in there and gosh I felt that in so many different situations but it’s realizing that it’s happening and stopping it and saying wait a minute my energy is my energy I can control and choose how I feel in this situation and therefore I’m able to be a better support for her instead of just jumping into her tantrum if you know what I mean.

1:19:26 You kind of have to be the strong emotion because they feed off your emotion and your reactions on a very subconscious level. Yeah, but I think that little example at such a young age, gosh, we deal with that so much throughout the rest of our lives, but understanding that that’s happening isn’t ever really taught to us. So with WellFit, I’m trying to find ways to bring that to six to eight-year-olds. So when they start feeling an emotion, they can acknowledge that it’s happening and then hopefully have rituals or choices or things that they can do to then combat that or deal with that or just understand that it’s happening and understand what’s going on in their body and know that they have the ability to take control of it.

1:20:09 Yeah, I love this stuff. It’s a lot like people that are talking about meditation for kids. This is just a different way of doing it and I think it’s great because I think you need to give kids a lot of different options. And meditation is a word freaks people out and so people can’t get it. But to be able to observe your own self and observe your reactions to something, I mean, that’s so important.

1:20:27 That’s usually when people aren’t doing that, is when bad decisions happen and bad things are done that people regret. Absolutely, and especially now living in quite a narcissistic world with a lot of sort of narcissists with really huge platforms, it’s showing us exactly what’s kind of happening to our culture because of social media, because of people in power. And I think that narcissism is something we’ve really got to combat and having an awareness of other people and doing things that are selfless is one way that I hope will help us get to that point.

1:21:03 But I think narcissism is a real problem. Well, yeah, you lived in the center of it, the city of it. Are you gonna call me up in 2025 and say, Brian, come to the O2, we’re doing the Pussycat reunion? Gosh, I have no idea. But it could happen.

1:21:19 It could, it could, I have no idea. I mean, I know Robin Anton would love to make that happen. Whether it does or not, I don’t know. The one thing I know is that I would really rather not be heavily pregnant, on stage singing Don’tcha. Do you want to think that’s something I would like to do?

1:21:38 You never know. The hardcore fans might love it. Hey, yeah. Did you see the NWA movie about the whole, you know, coming up of Dr. Dre and EZE and all that?

1:21:48 Okay. Yeah. It’s fascinating because you see that movie and you see guys that were all very close and they all came up in this piece and then obviously egos got involved, money got involved and they got to where they really hated each other and didn’t talk to each other and yet at the end they were making amends and then now at the end all of them are getting on stage again and I mean, do you ever see that and you can just see, well yeah, maybe in five or 10 years it would be special to come back because those moments you had, nobody knows those moments like you girls did in that hotel room in London or in China and all the crazy stuff was happening, you know, in a weird way, you’re closer to those girls, including Nicole, than you are to so many other people in your life.

1:22:26 Yeah, it’s true. They know me in a way that nobody else does. We know each other in a way that nobody else does. You’ve been through things that no one else has been through. Absolutely.

1:22:35 So yeah, never say never. And speaking of that movie, it was crazy watching that movie, because I mean, with Pussycat Dolls and Interscope, we were right in the middle of all those characters, of Dre and Jimmy and Snoop and everything. So it was pretty interesting watching it and being like, yeah, I know these people. What’s it like being in the middle of that? I mean, what is it like, what is the music business like?

1:22:56 It’s crazy, but it’s awesome. It’s awesome. It’s a cutthroat business, and Jimmy Iovine is one that has made history with his choices and his business decisions and what he’s been able to do for music and how he’s transferred that to business with Beats by Dre. And it was just phenomenal to see how he could conduct a company and conduct business in the way that he did. And being able to do shows, small shows with Pussycat Dolls and still having the likes of Dre and Snoop and Justin Timberlake and Rihanna and all these amazing talented people in the audience watching was crazy.

1:23:41 And amazing to see that your talent has taken you amongst a pretty amazing pool of people. Yeah, that’s crazy stuff, the book, maybe the book’s coming someday about it. Kimberly, I just wanted to thank you for coming on. It’s been one of my favorite conversations I’ve had here. It’s funny how even I in the media suffer from media bias and you know, when it’s like, oh, well, you know, Kimberly’s gonna be on and following Pussycat Doll, everyone starts remembering the videos and making assumptions about who these people are.

1:24:08 But I always kind of trust the fact that, you know, here’s a young lady that I don’t know anything about, but she went seven years through this madness and managed to hold on and what it seems keep her sanity at the end of it. So I always think I can learn something from her. And so you didn’t disappoint. Oh, thank you. It was fascinating to hear your story and everything you’ve been through.

1:24:27 And I love the fact that you’re in the UK. I’m here to stay as well. Yes. Hopefully no more Americans will come. No, but it’s all good.

1:24:35 And it’s gonna be fascinating to see what happens next with you and what you’re gonna create. So I just wanted to thank you for being here. You said something earlier, which is actually our tagline. And we’ve always said London Real, it’s about the journey. And sometimes I forget that myself, because sometimes I get into an egoic mood and then I get back out again.

1:24:53 And so it’s hard to remember that, especially for certain types of people that like to accomplish things or push themselves to do things. But it’s a great way to remember it. And I think through movement, like you’re doing with WellFit, it’s a great way to remind yourself that yeah, we have these human bodies that are here right now. They do these amazing things. They’re always present, even though we’re not.

1:25:16 And it’s just a great way to remind ourselves that we’re all human, so. Absolutely. And that we can connect as humans through each other rather than through phones and technology. I think it’s important that we don’t forget that. Yeah, real conversations.

1:25:30 And I guess through dance as well, because you’re in the room and you’re watching people and seeing what it’s really like. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Pleasure to have you. All the best with WellFit, and please come and see us again sometime soon.

1:25:41 Will do. Thank you.