James Thompson - Still Fighting

Full transcript: James The Colossus Thompson on London Real

5:35 This is London Real. I’m Brian Rose. Joining me today is Mr. Peter Irving who is an MMA fighter and also a journalist for Fighters Only Magazine. And our guest today is James the Colossus Thompson.

5:47 I like that. And a Colossus you are. Oh you. He is a heavyweight mixed martial arts fighter who has appeared in such organizations as Elite Extreme Combat, the Pride Fighting Championships in Japan, Cage Rage here in the UK. He has a podcast, which I love to listen to, which is called The Colossal Concerns.

6:05 You can get that on iTunes. And he blogs like a madman on his website. Colossal Concerns. I’m surprised you know about the blog and I don’t mention it much. Really?

6:15 Anyways, James, welcome. No, it’s great to be here, Brian. It really is. Really is. is really is a big fan of the show it’s quite strange isn’t it because we’re both such big fans of Joe Rogan and kind of from that I mean you’ve got your I always think about doing a podcast because I enjoy his so much obviously MMA is the one natural kind of leaning to you started yours and then we’ve met from that you’ve helped me with mine it’s just a nice synergy You’re the only fighter, I think I mentioned my name on Rogan’s show, isn’t that weird?

6:51 Yes. Now this is the thing that freaks me out a little bit, is that Rogan mentioned I’d contacted you before. Yeah, that was weird. You contacted me on Facebook and then I was on Rogan and then it got brought up, oh yeah, James Thompson contacted me and I was like, the James Thompson? And then boom, I guess you heard us talking about you as a third person.

7:12 Yeah, of course, of course. Hope you weren’t upset. Not at all. Not at all. You know I’ve been familiar with your fighting career But I went and took a look last night over just like all of the highlights and I Wikipediaed you I hope you don’t mind and I mean, it was just so many different things you’ve been involved with over the years and I just wondered if you could give us a little perspective on MMA over the last ten years I was actually at the brawl in the hall in 2002 at Royal Albert Hall here in London was my first MMA competition. It was UFC 38 You started fighting, I think, professionally after that.

7:45 Just after, yeah. What do you think? What’s happened in the last 10 years in MMA? A lot. A lot has happened.

7:53 I mean, Pete will tell you, it’s changed so much. I mean, when you think back to those UFC, those first ones, it seems, it seems at the age of the goal. No one knew what was going on. The commentators. listening to the commentators Jim Brown an NFL guy going on it’s just nobody had a clue what was going on it’s like the first fight which I always thought was quite good it’s I’m sorry I think it was a French guy who did so that Jared Gourdour yeah well done yeah was he in UFC or was he in yeah no he was he was in the first one but he was in a was in choke and he’s decent fire he got he crapped someone straight away and like some T4 but nose or something flew off and everyone kind of went oh it’s real and the same thing happened in SFL obviously I mean it was their first show their first fight they had a Professor X and I can’t remember the guy’s name and the Professor X landed straight away, boom, massive punch, blood everywhere.

9:07 And it just reminded me of that first UFC and the cameras flashed to all these Indian Bollywood people and they’re all, oh, it’s in people, it is. Was this the fight you were in recently in India when you fought Bob Sapp? Yes, that was the first one, yes. And that was like India’s first big organization, MMA. And what was that like?

9:27 I mean, I remember I saw pictures for it and I was like, interesting. You know, they were putting on quite a show. It’s a hard task, what they’ve taken on there, because when it goes back to like what we were saying, when I was selling tickets and people thought, oh, it’s to the death, oh, do you hit people with steel chairs? And it’s like, these are proper questions, legitimate, and you think, if I say, yeah, will you buy a ticket, it gets a bit like that.

9:57 Do you know what I mean? Like, I’ll say cage fighting to explain to people what it is even though I am a little bit snobby about it. It’s painful, isn’t it? It is. You have to justify what it is and it’s tiresome going over the same over it.

10:11 It is. And I try not to be snobby about it. I really do try and it’s not so much a cage fight, if I’m particularly wrong, it is fighting a cage, but there’s so much to it and I don’t, it’s not the term I don’t mind. I don’t usually like the people saying it. Yeah, yeah, very much.

10:29 And where they’re coming from with it, do you know what I mean? I think the problem with cage fighting as a descriptive term is that the insinuation is that the cage is like a prison rather than a safety device that prevents you from falling through the ropes. I try not to use it these days and I just try to use the theory that if they don’t know what it is then they should figure it out and I try to keep using mixed martial arts. But if my grandma wants to know then I’ll just say it to her and then they’re like I’m like, oh, maybe that makes me a bad person.

10:58 Yeah, you don’t want to come across as a leading scorer. Yeah, at the same time, he’s getting that, you know, like I said, there’s nothing so much wrong with it, but there’s so much more to it. But if that person doesn’t know, you’ve got to describe it in a way. And when you’re trying to sell tickets, I’m like, oh yeah, I’m not gonna pretend. I’d be like, oh yeah, come along.

11:20 It’s like, and I’d- Is this 10 years ago or is this a year ago? No, no, no, this is 10 years ago sell tickets to you know that’s how I got paid I was getting five pound on a ticket and I was just happy to fight and that’s when I really had the love for MMA I can you I know a lot more name a lot more but but when I went through my bad spell of getting banged out and all these things were going on thinking why it’s happened I know more but what it was I lost the love and that’s a very very very deep with anything what you do in life I think if you lose the love for it you’re gonna be on a loser and I was looking at I’m better but I’m worse why is it when I didn’t know anything and I was just going in there and I was looking at my actual technique sometimes when I punctured I actually talked to some guys that London shoot fighters about this and they said when you because we were talking about Kimbo and he said when you first come into the sport you all kind of adrenaline yeah you don’t really know and you you kind of just throw in and you go in you but when you start to learn a little bit that’s when you you’re trying to do the moves obviously which you should do but there’s that period where you’re thinking too much and that’s the thing where you overthink. Now that’s my problem, overthinking you most of the time.

12:48 Yeah, yeah, very much, it’s a difficult period. Do you feel like you’ve come through that now? I do now, but without sounding too hippie-ish, my training is going really, really well and I’m not fit at the moment, I’ve lost weight and I feel better, but I’m not fit but my My cardio’s better, and it’s mentally, something’s clicked in my head, and I’m mentally a lot better. So you said you’d lost a love for it during that period, you’ve reinvigorated it? No.

13:21 I’ve found it, and do you know what the irony is? I’ve found it, now I don’t need it. That’s just life, isn’t it? What do you mean you don’t need it? Because you do need it a lot.

13:31 Well, no, no, I need it because I want to do it, but I don’t need to do it like I was needing to do it in my head for the four years. I gambled and I fought a dictic gambler. Blackjack was my game, or my poison, whichever you wanna, or both. And he was killing me and they don’t mix. Being an addict at anything and trying to do anything, it just happened that I’m a fighter and it really doesn’t mix. So an addiction in anything doesn’t mix? Well I don’t think so. I don’t think so either. Because an addiction is something what takes from you. But then again the best people that excel at so many things have addictive behaviour. But yeah that’s very true but and it’s if you can be addicted to something positive. Now people will say you have no if you’re addicted to it it’s not positive okay but you can still glean positivity from being very good at something and uh and you have to be like that to get at the top of sports so you couldn’t function very well being addicted to playing blackjack and being a fighter they just don’t mix well not not for me because I literally would the lab books we had a lab books it was very closer to here where London shoot had their old training ground. I used to get up this time, okay, I’ve got this fight now, I’m going to do it and I never made it past the lab books. I’ll just go in, I’ve got 50 quid, it’ll be five minutes, I’ll start a little bit later and you make these little excuses, or I did, I go in and I win or lose, it doesn’t

15:16 Matter and all day and I’m either going back, getting money and going to a different one because the day’s gone now or I’d never made it past there for such a long time it was such an achievement when I made it past there and did some training but when I did my training I wasn’t really thinking about my training and plus it’s not that this is what I would do too I would have a fight and for six to eight weeks sometimes I would train hard and I’d really would I’m not scared of training hard I trained really hard and I’d win or lose that fight and then Then with the money, I would go and gamble, and then I would need more money, and it would continue. So no wonder I lost the love for fighting, because who loves that? Who loves that negative cycle of addiction?

16:05 And I’m very self-aware, so I was quite different where I knew I had a problem, but what I would do, I would say to myself, I admit I’m almost the worst person, because I would say, yeah, I’ve got a problem. Yeah, it’s terrible. And I’ll talk to you about gambling, all the negative things. And then I’ll go out and do it. And then go, yeah, I was terrible.

16:27 Let’s be frustrating for your girlfriend. What was the appeal? What was it that was making you keep going back? I really tried to break down my personality and look at myself. Like I said, I’m quite self-aware and I tried to be, and I think that’s what we’re kind of missing. People don’t seem to be very self-aware anymore. So I really try and look at myself and see the good and bad. And that’s a hard thing to do. And when I look, for some reason, I’m destructive. I’m scared of success. I’m scared of things going right. And I think, I mean, when you really break things down, some people are like that now. Why is that? I mean, I don’t really know.

17:12 It’s very common, a success barrier they call it, people just put things in front of them so they don’t achieve what in their frontal cortex they want to achieve. Yeah, they think it goes so much, and I don’t know if that’s something to do with my family, my dad was an alcoholic and he was a gambler in prison and all that, I never met him so So I never, and I don’t know, but it doesn’t really matter. What matters is that that’s a problem. You’ve got to know what you’re like in order to get past that problem.

17:50 So that’s what I’m trying to do. Okay, I’m like this. Let’s do, I do wanna be successful. I mean, I am. But you have been successful.

18:00 I mean, you’ve fought in some very top organizations. You fought in Japan in the early days. So you obviously were doing something right back then. Yeah, I’ve got a good heart. I’m a tough guy. I’m a tough fighter. I’m a big guy. I realised that I didn’t have much in the way of I’ve just kind of fallen to it and I was like, okay, let’s have a go at this.

18:23 How did they find you? How did Pride find you and how did you get that invitation? I started in a, I went to a show, I saw it, I never done nothing before, no MMA, no boxing, no combat, but I was just a big guy who fought on the door and did lots of deck collecting and shit like that. So I thought, I saw it, MMA, and I watched Don Frey and I had something, I thought I’m going to do it. I’d never seen anything like it and I just knew I was going to do it. It’s very strange. I watched a lot of tapes of these VHS clunky things and I was loving it. I was like, what is this? And I could see it straight away that you needed all of it. Not just due to it soon. I could see that. I thought, yeah, you need all of it.

19:13 You have a famous quote that said, you learn how to fight from DVDs. Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. And that, see, that’s the thing what I’ve realized too. The guy who did that was taking the piss out of me in a jockey way. And it was funny I remember laughing at it and I remember showing my girlfriend it and I remember saying look at this, she was rolling around laughing and I was like yeah and now I was thinking yeah it’s funny. So I had contact to him and I said oh I saw your video that was funny and you kind of cut it together and from that and Boondock was there, from that he started talking and then he started doing my fan club. So he just shows you by not taking yourself too seriously. Now I take fighting seriously and ego got an ego and all the things which you need but by just that is funny my Alexander and Melianco thing with the two contrasts well it’s funny you know two ways about it now right after the fight he would have gone up to me and laughed at me I would mean because it just happened but when I look back that’s funny that’s why I did the video the YouTube video explaining what happened we use that recently you dropped that video yeah I I did.

20:22 Can you explain what happened? Was it pride when you, was it pride 11 or something? No, I forgot which number it was. No, it was too early. It was too early.

20:29 It was 38 maybe. So you fought Alexander Emelianenko, which is Fedor’s brother. Yeah, that’s right. Is it his full brother or half brother? Yeah.

20:36 Who knows. But that was your first pride fight. Can you explain to people what happened and what happened? Well, I mean, I was, I’d been fighting in like, like, say selling tickets and selling tickets and copying tickets and selling tickets and all like just all things like that and little shows and it’s in the UK yeah I am such a big kind of following in the UK it’s only like two thousand two thousand three thousand but everyone’s supporting me and I left I beat Dan Severn and they announced that I got told just before that I’d be going to Pride and they weren’t doing any more shows so from that I went straight to pride and I just thought that’s the way it was because that you know you just watch pride okay go to find it okay so when I went there I was like Jesus right it’s his pride well I mean how many people how many people were in the arena I think the only saves a little bit more so yeah it was 50 so I’d say probably about 35,000 and I remember I think it was this fight, I came out of a, it might not be that fight, it might be the next one, but I remember going up an elevator and smoke and other, you know, Japanese are very different.

21:56 It’s hard to imagine the scale even, because I don’t know if I’ve ever been even in an arena that holds that many people, and then, you know, I’ve fought in arenas that are maybe 4,000 people max, you know, and then that’s enough to have that amount of people looking it’s quite a buzz. It’s a buzz but it takes a while to get used to that amount of people looking at you. So I think it’s probably hard for people who’ve never fought or are on performers or anything like that where you appreciate what you were experiencing at that point.

22:30 Is it an adrenaline dump or is it not that simple? I think there’s a lot of things to what I what I tried to take from it very early on was on my first fight I thought like okay what the fuck am I doing because I went there and it was they were setting it up and and I remember my girlfriend at the time was like oh wow it’s quite big isn’t it wow and I thought fuck yeah and they imagined all the people and what am I doing I was there so early I was just in the locker room thinking Oh, how old are you? I’m 23. 23, okay. Yeah and just all these things, what everyone goes through, what you realise now, well pretty much everyone goes, everyone has a different way of coping, but everyone kind of goes through these experiences and once you realise that, that really helps. I said in one of my blogs, Sean Duncan’s told me, are you nervous? I was like, yeah, I’m nervous, yeah and he goes, good. And I thought, well, what do you mean? And he said, well, your body’s getting ready to fight. Your nerves are open, thinking that’s what it’s meant to be like. And when you look at it that way, oh yeah, my body’s getting ready. You turn it, instead of a negative, it’s suddenly, and I’ve thought enough at that time to think, yeah, my body is getting ready for it. And you know, okay, it’s releasing yourself from the pressure of, I’ve got to do this, I’ve got to do this, because that just makes you so tense and tight which is the opposite to what you

23:57 Want to be. Like when I’m there going like that and I explain it in my YouTube I’ve done three videos so far check them out Colossus collective on Matt’s YouTube channel got two more videos what I’m doing this week that’s the opposite to what you’re meant to be like. Emu’s like that and Fedo doesn’t look at you in the eyes is like that because they’ve got that finger. When you look at someone in the eyes in that situation, naturally start tensing and posturing and that. They got it figured out and I looked into that and they do like, you know, they’re hitting the tired, you know, to hit the muscles. There’s something else they do in Russia. Specifically, something to do with waves. I’m not going to go into that kind of murdering now, are there?

24:48 Do you mimic that in your fights now? Do you try not to make eye contact? No, no, no, I still, because this is what, I listen to what they say and I’m still trying to figure it out, I’m still trying to figure it out which I’m getting better at, but I still very much think I do the banging the hands together which I did from the start because I realised I didn’t have much, I was this big guy and I like wrestling, I like the ultimate warrior when I was a kid. I actually wanted to be a wrestler and I tried wrestling but it didn’t do it for me. I knew I was going to win and I did it. It was hard. It was very hard but I didn’t get no buzz. When they put my hand up I thought, oh, I knew. And then afterwards when I went further in I was like, and then I found the UFC six months later or MMA I should say six months later. So you rushed Alexander then the Japanese called your what they called it the gong and dash style is that gong for the bell and then you dash so you would literally sprint across the arena yes into a guy who’s you know these guys can fight I mean this isn’t like yeah and so that’s what you did with him yeah okay the funny thing is when I look back I was so in over my head it was unbelievable I was almost so much in over my head if I realized how in over my head I probably wouldn’t do it but I was like right okay I remember watching a bit of tape on him I’m thinking right okay that’s it right

26:20 Yeah just think about cuz even though I haven’t got the biggest ego when it comes to fighting or anything like that I still remember doing jujitsu for about six weeks and hitting the pads and we used to do it all in one class it wasn’t even like properly you know sort of doing this and I’m really thinking I’m not that far, I remember watching Nog fight, Nog era and I’m thinking I’m not too far away and this is after a month and I’m miles away it’s so funny when I look back hey far back but that helped in a way this is what I’m trying to figure out it It helped me because I didn’t realise, everyone else realised, but that’s what helped me when I did the Gong and Dash because it was like, right, I’m just going to run at them and I really do run at them. When I started getting caught with it and when people started working it out, not like it’s that hard to work out, when that happened, I started to date myself and should I do it? Shouldn’t I do it? The Japanese want me to do it, but I don’t really want to do it and it got going like that and that when I ran I kind of half run and then I was getting caught and then it’s oh I mean you’re in the fight and it’s whatever happens happens but yeah it was it was so I think having I think being honest with yourself is the key because now I’ve been I was always being honest with myself but brutally honest like I mentioned before that that’s the key for me because I’m not scared of anything now

27:58 I’ve lost that don’t mean I’m I’m not trying to make out I’m some kind of like fearless but I am fearless and I’m not scared to say I’m not scared to say I’m I’m not fearless fucking hell, but I’m not because I’m going to train, I’m enjoying training, I’m going to try and learn as much as I can. I’m going to go out there and I’m going to like, I popped a post, I watched Ensign Enoy on the Joe Rogan. It was brilliant. That changed, But listening to that changed me as an MMA fighter.

28:45 I’ve done a blog about it and my missus is editing it at the moment. Did you ever meet Ensign when you were in pride? No, I didn’t. And to be honest, I watched him fight and I was like, wow. But he kind of, like I say, I just kind of threw myself in it and then I just missed him.

29:00 So I wasn’t a hundred percent. Ensign’s a Japanese American guy that was born in Hawaii but went to fight in pride And he’s very famous for putting it all on the line and in his mind he prepares to die before he fights He writes letters to all of his family saying goodbye to them really and then burns them after the fight What now I This is I would at first I thought he says he won’t tap He’d rather I I would say While that’s ego and that’s the opposite, you know, he was important But I don’t agree with that, you need to tap, you get caught in a fight, what’s the point of breaking your arm and you know, what’s the point, you know, there is no point, but then from listening to him and from what I’m experiencing myself trying to figure it out to a certain degree I’ve realised that by doing that he actually makes him stronger because he’s not scared of anything he doesn’t want his arm to be broken but he’s like he said in the interview he’s concentrating on getting out of the move not and it’s more than just your body it’s about your spirit and if you watch his fight with Eagle Vogue Trenchin all his fights he puts everything in there and he’s not afraid and that fear is what I try to harness but at the same time don’t let you hold it back, which is hard. So I put a post out and I vote my blog and I say I will never tap again in a fight. Never. I vote that and I mean it. But I’m very conscious that I’m not in a hair hook at the moment. So maybe I will. And if I have to write another blog

30:51 Saying, oh shit, and I’ll explain why, but I’m not afraid. Pete, I’ve got to get your thoughts. What are your thoughts on the, I will never tap. Yeah, well, I mean, I’ve let my arm break before to not lose. Did you win that fight?

31:07 No, that was the thing. I got to the end, lost the decision and went, ah, maybe that wasn’t worth it. So yeah, I’m not sure. Well, I’m so tuned for it. Go on, I’ll tell you.

31:18 Yeah, I think the thing is that when people say about feeling fear, you don’t necessarily feel the physical fear, you know, It’s the fear of losing and it’s much harder. Sometimes people ask me like, so do you feel scared? And they’ll say, yeah, sure, I feel scared. And they’ll feel better because they’re reassured that, oh, you must be a normal guy. And I think, but they don’t really realise what the source of my fear is.

31:41 It’s nothing physical because you wouldn’t even get through a training session if you were scared of getting hurt. You’d have to quit. And the more you think about it, the more likely you are to get hurt. Quite. So the fear for you is fear of losing.

31:53 That’s, sorry to interrupt. We asked Peter a question. I’ll just jump in there and answer it for him. Do you think we have a guess? But that’s exactly what I say and have said forever.

32:07 I’m not scared of the physical pain. I’m scared and that’s, you know, we never talked about this before but that’s exactly what I said and that is what most fighters or any half decent fighter will say. it’s the embarrassment of what they see as embarrassment of pride of ego of all those things now there’s no right or wrong about tapping I don’t think because I say I won’t tap like I say I might do I do but I don’t think I will but I’m not in that situation so we’ll see and I’m willing to put it out there and say and I put it out there not so people say oh James Thompson what warrior he won’t do this I put it out there because what I’m finding is things I want to achieve I write down when I do my videos that’s all off the top of my head to a point but I write it down and I write it down I don’t even look at it again sometimes I just do it but when I write it down it’s like I’m writing it into my head as strange as that sounds and I remember it and that’s what I’m trying to do with things I want to achieve when I write it down I’m making a conscious effort to achieve that. So that’s what I did and I’m interested in hearing people’s faults as well and like you say people say oh well people who have to you know feed a family and do this and that’s their livelihood it’s not smart and I would agree I say yeah you know maybe they shouldn’t maybe they should but it’s a very personal decision and there’s no right and wrong and it’s what’s right

33:48 For you now that is what’s right for me so you’re saying that is and then you think if you say I’m never gonna tap you might just hold yourself to that higher standard well I think it’s deeper as in I try not sound like a hippie but I really do believe that it’s a deeper thing and I believe it’s right for me now where I am in my career maybe if I fought this at the start of my career I’m getting my, I didn’t know Jiu-Jitsu very well and I’m getting my arms, but that’s the other thing, Ensign would, do you think he would gamble on that, thinking his life’s on the line, he’d take it as frivolously to go to lab books and not make it to training? No, he’ll be going because he really believes, even though he might not die, he’s prepared to. See that’s the other thing, someone said on a message book, oh it’s over dramatic, the chances of him dying are this and that, I 100% agree, but he’s fighting like he might, and that’s the difference. He don’t have to die.

34:53 He’s fighting, he won’t tap. So if the guy holds it, he could tap. It’s not about the actual reality, even though you don’t get much more than a pride MMA with a guy who outweighs you, like Ensign. It doesn’t get much more than that, but he’s prepared for the same with the letters. now he stopped fighting because he said he put he was just too traumatic now I almost think I wonder if he went too deep like writing the letters that must put such a pressure on you that he didn’t want I mean it turned into a you know his brain was swelled after the ego venture of them it big ones it must to being like every time you know not just a fight but he needs to prevent it so maybe that is too much now maybe it’s like what you were saying before where you were more where you you felt you had a period where you were more effective when you just only knew how to do one thing you know maybe maybe not being completely aware of everything is a little bit necessary probably if you reviewed you know road traffic accidents and statistics every time you were about to get your car you’d drive with a bit more trepidation on. Yeah that’s a very good point. Maybe it’s a little bit too much to think about. Yeah. Yeah maybe so James you know I’m looking at you and I’m looking at your left ear and I can’t stop looking at it and I was wondering if you could put it so the camera can see it. What happened to that ear? Can you tell us? Oh well I mean

36:23 That happened for the Kimbo fight. I was training at London Shoot. What year is this? I don’t know what it was like five years ago. So I was training. I was actually going to do gladiators and I was actually picked to do gladiators.

36:44 What they show in the States? No, funny enough, I went to the States at a Randy Couture’s and Gina Carano went for the auditions and I put my everything forward for that but I didn’t out of a visa, so it never happened. I came back, I lost a fight, I came back and then the English one was coming up, so I applied for that, got in, got accepted, everything was great. That was all, you know, did the little circuits and things, and I got on there, I got in the hotel, I was doing promos for it, doing the pictures, staying with all the other gladiators, they’d whiten my teeth and give me a spray tan and give me a sparkly costume with silver boots.

37:32 They actually whiten your teeth? Yeah, yeah, they know that. That was a long time ago. It hurts, it hurts. Oh, I’ve sort of seen it coming.

37:43 We got from Kimbo’s Lice to Gladiators, so you didn’t go on the UK Gladiator? No, no, I didn’t because I got the Kimbo’s Lice fight. So this was a fight on CBS television. Exactly. one of the early fights that was on free television.

37:56 Well, I got a call and I just lost to Brett Rogers. He just knocked me out. And I’ve been an extreme couture for that. Now, they said, my agent said to me, we’ve got a fight. I said, oh, great. Well, I’m doing gladiators at the moment. And he said, oh, fucking, what are you? You know, you know, I said, listen, they got lovely silver boots. It’s Every time they just don’t let it go. My agent, Ken Pavley, he told me right now, I won’t go into that because I’ll go off track, but I’m writing about it in my book. The whole thing about the gladiators and all that. I basically thought, well, no, I’m a fighter.

38:42 You don’t get an opportunity. Now, this is why I appreciate people might not like me because I’m not the best fighter, I’m not the most talented. I’m a big, scary guy who puts on a show and I’ve just come off a knockout loss and I’ve got something here, I’ve got the Kimbell Slice fight, gonna be one of the biggest fights, well, it was the most watched fight ever. That’s not particularly fair. Right.

39:06 Probably someone like Yupi, someone who’s such a tough fighter but never really got the recognition he deserves. Yeah, but I haven’t been in with the same quality though. It was like you were talking about in the introduction, when I did the same, I reviewed your record and I followed your career, like everybody in UK with me, but looking back, I realized, man, there’s no filler on this. There was like four fights at the start of UK domestic opponents and then it’s a who’s who. The only guys that you fought weren’t like top 10, like ovary men, guys like that. They’re the guys who were like physical giants, like giant silver or Pujinovsky, you know, I don’t know, that’s a sore subject.

39:47 No, no, no, no. We’ll get to that. We’ll definitely get to that. Yeah, but it’s a real hoo-hoo. Plus, it’s not your job.

39:55 It’s your job to take the fight if it’s offered to you. Yeah. I mean, did you get a lot of hate when you were offered and accepted the Kimbo fight? I was, I think, a whirr. No, it’s not so much a whirr.

40:05 Hey, I was just a whirr. And like I say to a sense, I see why. because they see me and Pete are different now they will bring me in because I’m big I’m scary I’ve had a few decent wins over a few people but I’m beatable the chin the thing all that so I’m beatable so for Thompson in there against a strong man for he’s a good stepping stone for for him and against Kimball whereas Pete so that can work to your advantage it can I mean I appreciate it. You get main events, you get main event fights. I see that straight away now with Pete, he’s a tough top guy. What do they have to win by putting Pete in there against someone like that?

40:53 The dynamics are very different, sort of like lightweight and well the way fighting and heavyweight. I think heavyweight division is an exception to a lot of rules in MMA where, Obviously, with the knockout potential of two huge guys, the weight disparity is potentially bigger in that division. Maybe there could be a call for a super heavyweight division if there was enough bodies there. You can’t see a real pronounced difference with like Tigger, Ronnie Gatture versus a Brock Lesnar.

41:25 Yeah, but James is saying more that he’s brought in as a showman a lot of times as much as a fighter. I think that’s intrinsically connected to the size of heavyweight fighters. I think the spectacle of heavyweight fighting is kind of lost on TV to an extent. You don’t get the same sense of it, but when you see a heavyweight fight live, you’re really struck by the, just the, it sounds stupid, the size of the guy, but there’s something else isn’t it? There’s like an electricity about the tension of a heavy weight fight and when you’re aware of how much bigger these men really are, you know, it makes it a much greater spectacle.

42:09 And it’s very high stakes. I mean, I think if they ran the stats on the heavy weights and you don’t see these three round grind out wins in heavy weights, I mean, the average length of a heavy weight, I think they ran the numbers recently and it was something like half that of a welter weight fight because there is knockout power there all the time. danger like all the time. See I like watching the smaller guys because I just see them and I’m thinking Jesus they don’t get tired. So fast.

42:36 And they’re so fast and they do that John Dodson. I used to love the WEC which is all the lighter weight classes before they got merged at the USC and I love the guys at 55, 45, 35. But again it comes back to education of the fans and when they’re watching it and they don’t really know everything’s more exciting first of all when you know someone fighting it’s a big difference if you watch me now after and vice versa after knowing I can’t be you know could you got that little bit more of a bond so there’s that which is different and then what was he talking about oh no you’re saying that since you have a whole history of fighting that when you come to fight you you bring what a lot of emotions to the table a lot of people that have been vested with you over the years you bring a presence is that what you get invited to find Kimbo this is what happens I can be talking and it’s really really about especially about a few drinks I can be talking and I can get very in depth with people I also like then I’m gonna bring you back to Kimbo and he’s only had a few drinks of water And he’s still like this.

43:51 Oh, he didn’t get any off of it. Oh, yeah. We’ll get some after this. That’s why. So Kimbo, you were offered the fight after a loss and for people that don’t know about Kimbo’s life, he was, what was it, Scott Coker called him the internet sensation, which I think is a horrible phrase, but a true phrase because he built himself up off millions and millions of watches on YouTube with these backyard brawls, bare knuckle brawls that were pretty vicious.

44:18 They built him up and put him on television and you said that was the biggest the most watched fight of all time at one point I mean it wasn’t it was massive as far as the size now the thing is with with Kimbo the weather was marketing him I was like Jesus why didn’t I do that why did I go to a barbecue with a couple of fat kids give her a few slaps get it on YouTube first million and he comes in his first fight Ray Mercer or someone like that and I think you’re up 60 to 80,000 but his first fight now after that he was getting sponsorship and I think for play to him he’s using like I did with the Gongin dash I didn’t have much but I used what I had so anyone who does that Kimbo used what he has you know good striking he was a solid guy tough guy and he used what he had. Now, Elite XC put all their eggs in one basket, all the eggs in one basket, because it takes time to learn. This is what Podjoneski didn’t really realize and I knew he wouldn’t realize because I’d been through what he’d been through and that was bigger is not necessarily better depending on your frame. So when you start loading on all that muscle and and you’re like, ah, it’s hard work, especially when you’re doing two free rounds of MMA.

45:46 And you might think, right, it doesn’t translate. I mean, you do functional strength exercises and get strong, you know, great, but bodybuilding training does not translate to MMA. Did that take you a while to realize that? Yes, it did, because I didn’t do bodybuilding, like do the shows, but it was always, I did definitely have bigger x here. So it was definitely a…

46:09 And when I realized I’d had to say… What’s bigger than the other people that I don’t know? I think it’s… I mean, it’s opposite to anorexia, where you never… You’re looking at yourself and you never feel big enough.

46:20 And I’d say, practically, all bodybuilders have it. I like bodybuilding and, well, I don’t like it, but I respect it because it’s hard in a different way. but you’ve almost got to be ill to do it. You’ve got to be self-obs… I don’t want to say self-obsessed in a…

46:42 It’s literally… You have to be so… It’s like any sport I suppose, but bodybuilding really is about what you look like. It’s because it’s vanity. It’s an image at the end of the day.

46:53 It’s got to be that. I guess it’s opposed to a fight. Yes. But it still takes you out, obviously, to remove this commitment. You really do.

46:58 So you basically were in this Kimbo fight. They had put all their eggs behind Kimbo because Kimbo was gonna be the success of the organization, really. And then you’re brought in. Do they treat you like you’re the stepchild? He ignored me.

47:10 I did a phone call conversation conference call and I kind of forgot I was on there. I was kind of just listening and no one really set direct any questions towards me. And someone said to Gary Shaw, fat slug of a man, he said, what would you do if Thompson won? and one and he said I’d hang myself and then laughed and I thought this is the CEO of the company. Yeah wow Jesus all right hang yourself but when you actually got to the competition they can’t really stack it against you but the media is obviously for him. This is what I found out through that fight the judges he had it in a he was a boxing promoter go his shop and he put the fight in New Jersey because that’s where he was a boxing and if you watch the fight the second round is on me I see you recall there was like an unprecedented number of unreturned strikes given I think there was questions asked afterwards wasn’t it like 42 unanswered strikes the stats That’s one of the stats round questions that they referee allowed.

48:28 The first round was 10-9. Everyone did 10-9 to me. The second round gave it 10-8 to me because like you say with the stats and that, one judge, his friend who lived down the road for him, who he put in, did it 8-10 to him, which is unbelievable. So it’s unbelievable. Are you grounding and pounding him on that second?

48:55 Yeah. I didn’t have much on my elbows, in all honesty. There wasn’t much there to him. And if I look back, people say, oh, they should stop the fight. And I say, well, yeah, I see why, they said, but there wasn’t much on my shots, in all honesty.

49:12 And he came back and when they stopped the fight, he bust my head and he had me on the ropes. Right. So I was, I didn’t have much left, but then he didn’t have much left. much left. And that’s the fight. That’s what you see.

49:23 So the third round, you’re both very, very tired. You come in, your ear is all califlowered up. Was that a training injury? Well, it was. I was getting it drained. Now, like I mentioned before, Londoners shoot great, great team. Now, this is what they said to me. I said, it came up in training. I said, should I drain my ear? And they said, no, it could get infected. Now, the chance it can get affected. The chances of it getting infected are very small, very, very small.

49:50 But they say, listen, there’s no point taking the chance of it getting affected because if they burst set, it’s not going in your eyes, they won’t stop the fight. And that’s exactly what they did, stop the fight, because it was an excuse. Now, the referee, Dan Blockhead whatever he’s called. He wasn’t, it wasn’t fixed, I don’t think they paid him any money or not, but what I believe, they were screaming, like off with the fight, they were screaming stand up, stand up, stand them up, stand them up. I got to side control, I just got there, they stood the fight up, I took another load of whack, that can change the whole course of a fight, just that, and I took another load of whacks before I got him on the floor again. So I think, subconsciously, all them people shout, especially the CEO who just said he’d hang himself, he had to win, all that kind of pressure makes up.

50:53 So you’re busted, so Kimbo Slides you’re busted, there’s blood everywhere, and you think Merkleiata just freaked out and stuff like that? Yeah, I mean he would look at my eyes, he caught me, and I will tell you honestly, He caught me and I was on my last legs. I was. And he might have knocked me out. I don’t know. That’s what annoys me because that’s what a fight is. He might have knocked me out.

51:15 But you weren’t out. I watched him last night. I wasn’t out. I wasn’t out. And Kimball was dead in the water as well. One tight down with two rounds up. I don’t know. I don’t know. But he knows. And he took it away.

51:28 You slapped Murdery Adi. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get fined for that? No. He said.

51:32 It was very rude. a little bit. I went to talk to him afterwards to apologize with an axe, but I couldn’t find him. He said to me, which annoyed me as well, he said, I stopped the fight. I’m not pressing charge, but I’m not going to put a complaint in because I think James thought I was Kim Bo. That pissed me off so much more. That’s so annoying. I didn’t think you were, well I thought you were a black man with a beard.

52:05 Do you know what I mean? Pete, what are your thoughts on that stoppage? Yeah, stoppages in general. I appreciate the refereeing’s a hard job. I’ve done it, I’ve refereed a couple of bouts, and it is more difficult when you’re there.

52:20 But I think it’s easy for referees to get themselves off the hoop by saying, oh, fight the safety is my priority. But your well-being in that moment is one thing, but losing a fight afterwards, when you take that away from somebody that you sometimes you just want to know a lot of times I would rather be I’d rather be knocked out then then be denied the chance to get to the end of the fight that I would have won and yeah that and that that effect when that’s happened to me it’s affected my well-being much more negatively perhaps than a knockout might have. Right and we’ve seen so many fights like Frankie Edgar and a bunch of in the last few UFC’s or say six months or 12 months where it’s so close and then the comeback that happens it’s just yeah and then you’re talking fighters careers at this point you know with the UFC a couple losses three and you’re gone speaks a very high it did this did did that decision affect your career now that you look at it and then the long run but the I would this is so I start gambling after that I got home I had money. London Shoot did a barbecue for me. I didn’t turn up. I didn’t call them. I was depressed. I was like, my chance would gladiate is I’d phone that off and I had a sponsorship deal waiting for me at the time. I think it was $5,000 every month for supplements and just waiting as soon as I won and I felt sorry for myself. He made the wrong decision and and blah, blah, blah, but then I made the wrong decision.

53:56 I took the decision he took and I went the wrong way. Well, he’s fault, and that’s what I mean, that depends what you do in that. And I did what I thought, sorry for myself. I started gambling. My personality is that much that from there it’s been four years of murder, absolute murder.

54:15 And not just for me, for my missus, what I put her through all until recently. I mean, I gambled pretty recently and lost the rest of my money. And I was living in the gym, which is freezing cold with a mattress. And that’s all I had. And that’s all I had.

54:37 And I thought I was 145 kilos of like bad weight, fat and I thought, right, you’re that close to being a loser. You don’t drive. You don’t got to miss it, you don’t have a house, you don’t have any money, you don’t want to fight. No. You got a blog, you like your blog.

55:00 And that’s the only positive thing I did in that time was my blog. So that made me look at myself. Why am I here? How have I got here? What do I need to do to change it?

55:13 And that is what I’ve done. I’ve took the shit, what I had, which I created, which is no one’s fault, but my own, and I’m turning it into gold. I am the alchemist. Except I do it with shit. I’m tweeting that quote.

55:33 Jesus Christ, James. Was there a catalyst, or did you just hit a point where you thought enough’s enough, or was there something? Well, they say everyone hits a low point. The low, and I thought my low point was, And it obviously wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t, when I was in London, I went with my girlfriend, I’d just lost a fight, which I’d trained for, very hard, I got in very good shape, and I’d lost it, and then I’d gone out, gambled home and I lost that, come back like that, and I was on the way back, I was thinking about killing myself, find myself in front of the chief, and I would have done it, well, I didn’t.

56:09 I didn’t kill myself. But, you know, the fact that you’re thinking like that, and I went home and I saw a knife, and I got the knife and I went upstairs to the bathroom and I ran a bath and I thought, I didn’t do it, I didn’t do it. But the fact that I’m thinking that is very unhealthy. It’s very… I thought that was my low point.

56:28 Obviously it wasn’t. My low point was, see, I started to, because I’m aware, I started to hate myself because I could talk about gambling, because I could say, yeah, I’ve got a problem, but I didn’t want to talk to people. I didn’t want to talk to a mom or anything because I didn’t like the person I’d become because I was full of shit. Because I got tattoos of the Serenity Pro. I got the date of my last time my dad gambled on it.

56:56 And that gave me great strength. But then I gambled. So then I thought, well, I can cover it up. I can do that. But then I thought, oh, I can’t really do it.

57:07 I’ve got to be honest. So I crossed it out. And I crossed it out again. And I’ve just a little altered to a date what’s not even here yet, you know. And that gave me, and it is like my mates, like you’re gonna run out of it, and it is funny, and it is that, but at the same time, it’s my life and it’s fucked up to what I’ve done.

57:28 But all I can do is learn from them, and that’s why I wouldn’t change anything, because I’m in a place now where things are happening, and they’re happening because I’m deciding to make them happen. I’m creating my own reality. My reality at one point was living in a freezing cold gym, not training, with nothing. And now, my reality, in a very short space of time, I’m doing so many things, so many positive things which I like doing, and I can feel I’m getting somewhere because people can feel it off me.

58:05 I’m being honest, because I’ve been to that place. I’ve been honest, I’ve gone, okay, okay, and that’s given me great strength because I’ve looked at myself and it’s hard to do, it’s not an easy thing to do to be really, and that’s what I’m still trying to do now, okay, just keep being honest. And that’s why I’m on message boards like MMA TV and the Vulcan board more, because I never used to go on because my spamming salt got all fallen. But I’m on there now, kind of not scared.

58:35 I’m not, I’ll just say it as it is, and anyone can ask me anything, and I’ll answer it. Anyone can ask me any question, and I have no problem with it at all. I keep going all the way out. I think the Yanks don’t understand your personality sometimes. I saw that MMA fighting guys, they posted one of your videos, and you were talking about the things you hate in MMA.

58:56 I think it was like the Americans yelling USA and like a bunch of things, but I mean, you have a funny way of coming off as I’m the big lug, but you’re actually not the big lug. You’re actually like, you got the crazy sense of humor and you got all these things going on in your mind. But do you use that to your advantage? Yeah, no, no. I don’t mind people thinking that at all because this is what I mean because that is part of me.

59:24 I am a big clumsy guy who gets loads of things wrong and like does some ridiculously stupid things. There’s just no two ways of it. I do, like my friends will tell you, they constantly, I do loads of like, and I see my mum in me like that because my mum gets left and right wrong and she makes constant mistakes and things like that and I take the mickey out of it and I always go mama. But also, that’s one side of me and the other side is that even though I’m not very intelligent with some things when it comes to maths and language and I’m not good at everything, I am very aware of what I am good at, and I’m good at, I’m good at with people, I’m good at knowing when I’m being bullshitted, I’m good at knowing when someone’s got their best, my best interests at heart. I’m good at that, so I don’t…

1:00:18 You’re saying you can’t spell and your language goes out great, but I was really surprised by how well you’re right. When I got directed your blog for the first time, I couldn’t believe it was the same guy, for what? I didn’t… Actually, that came off wrong. But when I when I saw your videos and stuff like that, you can you can tell that you could that’s nice you’d say no, I don’t think that’s a bad thing to say, but you see spelling and Writing I think I to do that. I get my blog edited like if I put my blog out there after I edit it It’d be I mean, it’s the same word but without full stops and commas and You know, I’m dyslexic. I’m severely dyslexic so I get a lot of the words in the right place and they’re, but, sorry, a lot of the words, they’re, but all mixed up.

1:01:06 Gotcha. Do you know? So, and that’s just, I don’t know, my mum took me for tests when I was seven and they were like, yep, he’s dyslexic and I’m very strange, well, they gave me something to pick up and I picked it up with my left hand. I’m very left-handed in some ways, but I use my right hand. I don’t know how I’m a fuck up book.

1:01:30 So what is the point? Why do you do the blog and why are you making the videos that right now and what’s like what is what you write in a book? I mean like and you know what what’s the future for you in your mind? Like why do you do those things? Because I enjoy them. I really enjoy them and I’ve got so many things that are coming to me and it’s very strange and I think to my missus it’s strange what’s happening But I’m loving it, and it’s because I’m opening up.

1:01:57 When I talk to people, I’ve got so many ideas. What I’m doing, like, I’ve got too many ideas, ideas for apps, this herb, what I’ve found, the things what I’ve said about the martial arts, which I’m going to do, re-roll, all these things. And it’s overwhelming. And I’m like, oh, so many things I concentrate on this and on that, and I’ve gone from nothing to unbelievable amount but again I’m thinking it’s okay don’t be scared just keep on keep on take every day keep training keep doing what you do and it will all work out as long as keep being honest with myself now why the blog is the only thing I started and it remind which see I did my blog and I was in a very bad place when I started it. I’ve really enjoyed it. I’ve really enjoyed thinking and writing and getting my opinions and I enjoy it. I’m good at it.

1:02:56 I’m not, I’m good at writing. I’m a good writer. I get extra credit because of the way I look and then people listen and it’s all going great. So that’s good. Do you have to fight again to feel good about yourself? That’s a good question. That’s a very good question. I think I have to because it’s something what’s it’s a journey which I haven’t completed yet I see it now for what it is because what I’m doing is looking at the ego side of it now I traditional martial arts I haven’t got much time for I always think these pieces you can take out of everything but I’m looking at traditional martial arts in a little bit of a different way not like I’m not gonna start coming in with Stephen Seagal in my corner and start, you know, you know, I’m not going to start doing all that. But I’m looking at things in a little bit, like I said with Ensign, I’m hopefully I’m going to make the effort if you’ll have me to go on train because I think he can help me, not only in my fighting, but as a person. And that’s why MMA, that’s why I love MMA because it’s mind, body, and it’s all of them. It’s not one thing. You can think whatever you want and be open-minded, but if you don’t know how to do it, you’re going to get filled in. You’ve got to have the contrast of mind and body, which is more important.

1:04:24 I don’t know. I think they’re both massively important. So with you with your fighting what what do you want to accomplish? No what what’s that what you said? I want to fight again, but what is what it what will what will make the ego feel better?

1:04:38 Or what do you think you want to get first of all I’ve got this is this is that won’t make I’ve not got a fight for ego So what am I fighting for then? Well, I’m fighting for I don’t think I’ve given myself the best chance the chance I suddenly realise that you create your own destiny, whatever I want I can achieve. I go into the secret and all that. I like the secret to a certain extent, like the auto suggestion and all that side of it, but I’m not like a hippie, but I really…

1:05:19 The secret is what? Sorry, that’s what you’re all about? No, it’s a book and a movie that came out that basically says if you visualize something in your brain, then it will happen. Right? Yeah, that’s fair.

1:05:29 I’m paraphrasing it. No, that’s good. But what they mixed out of it that they taught, The Secret is basically a revamped version of Think and Grow Rich, a book by Napoleon Hill, which was written in the 1920s. It’s an old book, yeah. Yeah, it is.

1:05:46 It’s a revised copy, which I recommend everyone to get. That is the secret, except the difference is you don’t just think it and it appears because things don’t just think and you wake up and they appear and the more you think about them they happen. You have to do things, but no one wants to know about that, do they? No one wants to actually, you know, it doesn’t just happen, you have to make it happen and thinking about riches, you get your goal and then you get to how you’re going to get it.

1:06:20 You think about every night which goes to Otto’s suggestion. Now he went round for 20 years before he wrote that book and he went a lot of successful people. So I think 20 years to put into it, that’s his life work. He picked up some decent and it goes quite off scale in some way, but I’m seeing a lot of that is… Like yourself.

1:06:48 Well, we must open a little bit what I’m experienced at the moment. So I’ve read it twice, but I’m going to read it again with kind of fresh eyes. I think you just need a challenge. I think everyone needs a challenge. I mean, I train with Pete and I see Pete, and I think you always like when you have a fight on the horizon, right?

1:07:03 Sure, yeah, yeah. I always like when I got a show on the horizon that I’m excited about, and I think that’s just what makes us men, right? Well, people. Yeah, sure. because what else is it about?

1:07:14 Because this guy on my Facebook, I’ve always said he’s quite depressed. I would put something on though, which was quite kind of deep, which I’ve put one day. And he kind of agreed to what I said. And he said, yeah, what’s the point of anything? I thought that’s why you’re depressed.

1:07:34 Because I ain’t got the answer. I ain’t got the answer. You can tell you what’s the point of this, what’s the point of that, what’s the point of us talking there. But I know I’m enjoying this. Yeah, that’s enough.

1:07:44 Yeah, no, that’s good. You do. That’s just that’s nihilism. And I’ve been there before. And it’s a really hard hole to get out of.

1:07:50 I don’t know if you have. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And like you said, it’s a don’t want spiral. And it’s really and you can’t you can’t explain your way out of it.

1:07:57 No, because what do you say to the guy? No, no, no, no. Once you’re there, it’s it’s hard. We said at the start of the podcast, like, why did it matter? What do I like asking questions?

1:08:07 What about this? What about that? He’s that conspiracy, he’s that, or that, oh, what, I like it all. I like it all. I don’t need to know the answer.

1:08:16 I’m getting so much enjoyment out looking for the answer. And every time you open the door and get an answer, these are a million doors. That’s that, and that’s fun. That’s why I don’t need, I don’t get frustrated. Oh, I don’t know.

1:08:29 I don’t get frustrated at that. I like it, you know, enjoying the journey because nobody knows what the fuck’s going on. And the more you look into it, the more you see that. My answer to that nihilist is, why does it matter anyways? It doesn’t.

1:08:43 Of course. Let’s do it. Yeah. Of course it doesn’t matter. Like, I had rolled him talking to one of his, I think it was Brian Callan, and Brian Callan was, and we all fall into the trap, and he was going on about duty, what’s this, you know, you fall into that in lots of different extremes sometimes.

1:09:01 What’s the point of this? I’m only this, and does it matter if you’re, and then Morgan said, oh, stop, what are I don’t like to do it, and I do it. Simple, that’s enough for me. Fair enough. I gotta ask you about a few things before we run out of time.

1:09:16 Bob Sapp, you fought him in India last year, right? I think you’ve got a blog coming out saying about Bob, or maybe you have one out already. I did one. What happened in that fight, and what are your thoughts on Bob Sapp? Well, I reckon, see, I got the fight with Bob Sapp, and it happened about just under a year before it actually happened, because my agent was in talks with SFL, he was going to be the CEO, so they were sorting the matches out before. So, yeah, yeah, Bob’s like, okay, good fight, big guy, blah, blah, blah. And then, when that happened about, he just suddenly started, he’d been doing it a little bit anyway, but he just seemed to completely just throwing the towel, I think, fuck it.

1:10:04 What’d you call it, the tap out tour? The towel. Yeah, tap out, that’s good though, but he basically, that’s it, yeah. That’s what he did, he decided to fuck it. You know, it’s hard to, a lot of people fight or die, it’s not the fight, it’s the training.

1:10:20 Right, but you were the first one to say that back in the day, he had that love of him and he had that fire, that fire, even though he always looked like a bit of a freak and he was kind of a freak show for the Japan, but he made a ton of money in Japan, he was a hit superstar in Japan. He was very interesting bobbed up, because me and my missus, we went to do the press conference, and he was like, so friendly, nice guy. I felt bad about writing the blog, because he was nice, as much as I could tell, he was nice, he was friendly, he talked.

1:10:49 I think I talk a lot, Jesus, that guy really talked. I sat across from him at dinner, and I was thinking, I don’t mind. At dinner with him before the fight? Yeah, we all went out. So he sat right across from me.

1:11:01 I didn’t really want to be sat across from him because I am going to fight him. And I don’t mind talking to guys, but I always keep a level of we will be punching each other in the face. Yeah. You know, I’m always aware of that. And I’m always I’m always looking for like a little weakness or something.

1:11:15 What they might show I might. So I’m OK, I’ll use it for that. Now, he was telling me about his career. I went bankrupt. He had a check for money and after he had any insurance.

1:11:25 He didn’t know about the other really interesting stuff. And my missus, who’s a pretty straight dog, he said, why do you still find? If you’ve got all this money, why do you still find it? And he said, oh, I wonder who the answer to this. So he said, I do it because I’m addicted to the fame.

1:11:43 And I thought, very quite an honest answer. I addicted to the attention and the fame, even if it’s negative. And I thought, I still think he’s skinned, but I think part of his answer was correct. Now, he turns up, the organisation, I don’t think, I don’t think they’d say to him, Mike, well, take a fall in this, where he just turns up and he’ll put a little bit of a fight and as soon as he comes on top of Taipei, which is exactly what I thought. That’s what you thought would happen.

1:12:13 To be honest, I was hitting him and I was thinking, why is he not tapping out? Because I didn’t train for that fight very hard at all. So I knew I only had a round in me, but it was awful, why is he not tapping out? And then he actually reversed me, and then he landed a hammer fist, and he’s big, man. And then, boom, he fucking hurt, like, he hit me, and my head shut, and as he hit me, it was almost like he was sending them, and I’m just going, I can’t lose to Bob’s up, I can’t lose to Bob’s up, I can’t lose to Bob’s up.

1:12:42 And I just took it, and he gave up, he didn’t hurt his knee, he was on his knee, you know, In my blog I talk about how he actually interviewed me about the fight I just had with him and it was very surreal at the nightclub. He ended up taking the microphone off the lady on the red carpet where we all are. And he was talking, he’s the other lady, and I thought, and he was going through the fighters talking, I thought, oh my God, he’s going to talk to me about me beating him and how he’s giving up. He actually got in touch with me from the blog pretending to be someone else it’s pending to be a girl and I know it was Bob’s up because he talks like he writes he does he told me and he was so I mean you did a crazy life yeah well this is what I realized as well I’ve got quite a mad and I didn’t really realize it but that’s why I’m enjoying my book so much and everything in my book it’s a hundred percent real I think you don’t need to make anything up. I just write it and I’m really enjoying it but…

1:13:53 You think it was a girl trolling you? All right. I have to ask you, how do you make sure that you don’t turn into Bob Sapp? Or will you? Maybe you want to become Bob Sapp. No. No, I don’t want to become Bob Sapp. God love him. I’m at that stage now where it would have happened because I’m I’m too far gone now. I get it now. Now I don’t get all of it because as soon as you think you get all of it that’s the irony you don’t get all of it at all. But I do get through being honest with myself where I am, what I want to achieve and that I’ve got no fear of of ever, could I say, I’m as far from Bob’s up as I could possibly be because I will never tap again. I’m not saying I won’t ever lose, I’m not saying I want on my leg, I might be in here in a wheelchair, I’m not saying that, but I won’t, no, Bob’s up taps as soon. And he explained in his interview with Erville, why? He said, I used to get the big money, I’m not getting that money now, I’m not putting myself through that, why should I risk injury for this and that. I mean the answer to that is why you should risk it because you’re a fighter and that’s what you’re doing and that’s what people pay to see. But that’s what he said and I thought, wow, okay.

1:15:18 Through his celebrity he sort of circumvented that, hasn’t it? That people aren’t necessarily paying to see him weigh not perform, they’re just paying to see him turn up and be the beast. follow MMA. So it’s a local show, like a big local show in Australia or Singapore and they don’t know. A lot of them people don’t know that Bob’s lost to me before they just see this massive guy and then the local guy wins and that’s what he gets paid for. So that’s what he’s, that’s what it is now. I’m sorry that I pointed that out because I like him And he contacted me on Twitter and went back and forth and he said I was a sellout because he offered to get me some wrestling matches and I said yeah and he was like I’ve got the emails, I’ve got the emails, I was like yeah what? Of me saying I’d do a wrestling match. Maybe he’s just building up the rematch. Yeah, I’m not going to go in that direction.

1:16:16 Alright, I’ve got to ask you about one other guy and make sure we cover him. Pujanowski, He was known for being one of the World’s Strongest Man contest. He was the World’s Strongest Man, right? Was he a bodybuilder? Yeah, five times.

1:16:30 Yeah, five times. And was he a competitive bodybuilder before that? Or was he just the strongest man? I think he went into Strongman, but when he went into Strongman, I remember watching him because we, all the families, used to watch Christmas, you know, eating old chocolates. Yeah, I mean, he’s got the six-pack and he was so much fun watching a guy because usually they’re fat and he was like ripped to death. I’m smashing it.

1:16:55 These are the guys that like lift giant rocks and they do they pull the trucks and they do these farmers walks with huge weights because anyone hasn’t seen it. But then he decided to make his MMA debut and you said earlier you knew that because of his size he was gonna have problems because you had the same experience. 100%. How did you end up fighting him? How did that all happen?

1:17:14 It’s a bit like the Kimbo that I was the guy brought in to lose with a certain amount of credibility. I mean, at the time, that was possibly, fighting was the lowest I’ve ever felt. I mean, I went to America to train for that fight because I’d gambled loads of money. I owed people money. I was at the airport. I had a list and I rang up all my friends and I said, Yeah, I listen, I go to America, I owe you this money, you’re not going to get it for a bit.

1:17:47 When I get back, you’ll get it. I’m just letting you know. Jack and I had a list of people I rang and apologized, so at least that silly thing I got out of it, I’ve still got a good name, I paid all them people, they had to wait for it and I apologized, but I paid them anyway. I went to America, it didn’t go to plan, because I don’t drive, the whole story, I came back, my missus, we weren’t together at the time, but she said I could stay, just her friends, she did, she was there for me, and I started training. Now I wasn’t fit at all, like I actually went to the fight, and Pajoski’s like…

1:18:30 In Poland you fight? Yeah, yeah, so I went to the, not the fight, sorry, the press conference, and I’m like out of shape. Like I’ve been training hard but I’ve had six months of… Do you know what I mean? So I went there and I’m still out of shape and you know and the Podjoskids are oiled up, six pack gleaming in the distance, like loads of people, you know doing all the press conferences and I’m like they gave me the shorts, the KSW shorts, I put them on, I couldn’t fasten them, I couldn’t get one of my fat balance. I’ve got a bigger no, no, that’s it. They had to cut him at the back so I could get in him.

1:19:11 It was absolutely and I thought oh my god, James, you’ve got to say it. Now when it came to the fight I was like in a bad place. Now this I’ve only told my Mrs. This. I was at a point but I talked to it at low points quite a lot but this was another one and it didn’t happen it didn’t happen I didn’t go through with it but I was thinking of ringing up KSW and saying to them like pay me an extra this and I’ll throw it that’s how because I didn’t want to I didn’t want to fight anymore and I thought I’ll lose this and then I’ll be able it’s almost like and then I can’t, no one wants me then anyway, so I didn’t do it, I decided to train, I got relatively fit even though I looked like crap and then when I went to the fight, you know, we were fighting Barra and there’s a point and he’s very, very interesting to me to watch it because there’s a point where I go, I’m trying to be standing and he’s catching me, now Podjoski is not a great stand-up guy, do you know what I mean, but he’s catching me to the punch a couple of times and he hit me and this is why I know that it’s so important to be mentally switched on and to want it because he hit me and I didn’t do it to be tough I didn’t know but I put my hands down and I went and he mentally I said knock me out then not to be strong but to be like prove everyone right I’m shit I’ve got I’ve got a glass jar knock me out so I did and he hit me like three four times straight on the button and then I was like kind of snapped into reality like

1:20:52 Oh fuck that hurt and he’s tired and then I jumped on him and got the wind shortly after but I had I had given up for that brief second I thought knock me out then because I wasn’t happy with myself I wasn’t happy with where I was what I was doing and you know the whole thing even though I never did it it was only me talking to my missus about the fact that I was thinking like that the fact that you know like I said before about the suicide I didn’t do it obviously but the fact that I’m thinking like that is such a negative negative negative thing but I won’t change it because now I can see it and from that I can do pretty much the opposite which is what I’m doing. I forget how I mean I’m not a fighter but it’s so it’s so emotional yeah that’s the other thing what I figured out when I had a problem because one I’m quite sensitive to criticism like a lot of people are and the other thing is that you you I’m sure you you know this Pete I haven’t got a big ego but when you fight and you’re doing quite well oh when’s your next fight when’s this and you become Pete the cage fighter I became James the cage fight it wasn’t I was my job so when I had a loss and when they came before gambling when they had a loss that wasn’t just a knockout and this and you know that was me and that was all them things what they said I was so hurtful I thought and it took the wind at me were eventually that happened credit separate the two which is what I do now your career from the yes but yeah

1:22:36 I and this is what I can say I can do lots of things I can write I can do that’s why I say I need to fight for the money and I’ve got any money at the moment I’m not doing it for the money but the money it’s not like what I say I don’t need to do it implies that maybe I’m okay I’ve got money I know but I’m not fighting for the money okay fighting because I know I can do other things because I’m doing other things and they’re working so that’s a big difference for me now I’ve separated the fighter for and I see a lot of people without wanting to come across like I know it all or this or that and I’ve got to be careful not to come across that when I see young fighters trying to explain that you are more than yes you want to win yes you need to train out yes you got to be mentally that doesn’t mean that dismisses all them things that cause you want to win and do that you want to do things I want to win but But you are not that fighter.

1:23:36 Pete, can I get your thoughts on that? Yeah, I absolutely agree. I think it is important in the end to compartmentalise, to understand the difference between the value of you as a fighter against the value of you as a human being and they’re not one and the same. But then they are connected. Like we talked about Bob Saff before, where Bob admitted that he was just interested in having the attention and the fame, regardless of whether it was positive or negative, to be in the line. And so if he’s completely divorced his value as a human being come from his value as a fighter then he’s willing to tap for nothing. I think you made a good point that that’s why it’s so difficult sometimes because they are linked. Do you know what I mean? They are linked. You do and you should do because you put yourself through the fire so you shut so it is but at the same time not to go you’re more these other things as well as that’s the balancing act like so many things it’s a hard profession really to well in a lot of respects it’s a hard profession to divorce like that you know in a way that you know everybody in whatever profession is gonna have some professional pride but it’s very hard to separate you know I’m sure there are other professions that are like performing and also fighting at the same time and there’s it is different I mean if you do separate it maybe you too much maybe that takes away from your passion and you it’s all it’s and again

1:25:09 So I don’t think there’s any one answer to it I think it’s a an answer only you can you to be aware of and to watch and to be careful of the touch because if you’re taking a loss when you’re meant to take a loss badly like when I said to when my friend’s out and he lost the rest of the day, I said, shit, I said good. Because if you felt good, that’s definitely wrong. So you may not feel shit, just like you may not feel scared before you’re unifying or nervous.

1:25:39 So there’s no right or wrong answer because like you’re very, I never, strangely enough, I never really thought, they are linked at the same time. You can’t divorce them completely and you don’t want to divorce them completely, but it’s just all about which one is best for you. What’s the best concoction for you as a fighter? Pete, when you get on a winning streak, do you find sometimes that all of a sudden you are, now Pete the fighter, Pete the fighter, and everyone rallies around you and they know you as Pete the fighter, Pete the winner?

1:26:11 Sure, yeah. People do treat you differently when you’re on a high and when you’re on a low. Is there something you don’t like about that? Yeah, sure, it’s, you kind of, probably, you know, like you were saying, you’re a self-aware guy too, you know, and you are conscious of the fact that people are a little bit phony, whether they need to be or not, you know, that they recognize you as a winner and they want to attach themselves to you. And then when you’re a loser, people want to separate themselves from you.

1:26:40 And whether they’re doing it consciously or not, there’s, it’s hard to accept, It’s it’s hard not to go along with it as well. It’s you know, it’s nice when everybody wants to know Yeah, everybody wants to be a friend Of course, it’s easy to fall for you know, even when you know that it’s a little bit phony I saw I saw Pete fight three months ago four months ago. It was out by Gatwick. What was that? Three months ago. Yeah. Yeah, and and you won that fight after it was great because it was like the first round was very tough and you came back and won it and and I was there with a mate of mine and I even felt myself becoming that guy a little bit I trained with you all the time and stuff and I was just like, I don’t want to be that guy.

1:27:20 Yeah, when you’re friends, when you’re friends and you know it’s genuine, it’s peripheral people that seem to offer you something. That’s when it’s a problem. I think the thing is too, it’s like almost, so I put myself in that position, say you lost a fight and I say you have to, it’s not that I would ignore you or I wouldn’t do that obviously but it’s almost like you don’t, there’s nothing you can say. Yeah. You know, if I lost a fight, there’s nothing you know, there’s nothing you, so you just, you know, go and pat on the back. Yeah, you can’t see anything otherwise, you’re just sort of paranoid. Whereas if you win, you know, it’s nice, you can, yeah, well, but then again, you have the different levels of people but that comes with knowing people and knowing yourself and knowing the situation. And like you’re saying being aware again. We got a few minutes left but I want to ask you, you fought Alistair Overeem in your past. We saw him fight last weekend and we saw him get banned for pissing hot on a PED test like six months or a year ago and he came in and he looked different and he lost a fight to Bigfoot Silva who looked great by the way and I just want to know what your thoughts having fought him, having seen him go through this great peak and now seeing him after testing and maybe not being on the performance enhancing drugs, Crocop came out and was just like he’s been doing this all along and it made him aggressive and all this stuff. What are

1:28:54 Your thoughts? Well I mean that’s such a big one the PEDs and what’s fur, what’s not for you know it’s such a big question now he got overconfident in that fight and he paid the price and I think fans I think it’s good not God dislike Alex Alistair over him but I think it’s good for fans because I saw the message boards and hell how long is big fuck gonna be knocked out for everyone’s gonna forget that this is a guy who cuts to get to 120 who has some massive win. Yeah and he knows his stuff and it’s MMA. And like Pete said it’s heavyweight does it? Yes of course so you know you know plus the timing with you know he obviously was more careful about what he took and you know that had an effect you know he might tell you don’t take anything out I can’t be bothered with it. I’m not even gonna I’m not even gonna have an argument with anyone the guy fought in pride at mid-awake. Do you know what I mean? And I am not judging him for that either. But what I’m saying is where he is and what happened and with the overcockiness just caught up with him. And that happens now. To come back from that, he’s going to be, he’s down to our list of it. He’s a top, top, he’s one of the best fighters in the world. I’m sure, I don’t know if he will. I’m sure he will, but do you know what? I don’t know if he will. I mean, you’ve come back from big losses. I mean, would you give him any advice? It’s not the same. It’s not the same, but is it the same? I mean, your

1:30:37 Fight with Kimbo is… Yeah, I mean, it’s not the same because he’s had so much more success and he’s a better fighter than I am. Yeah, but mentally dealing with it. Yes, that’s the thing, that’s the thing, so I will watch it with interest, you know, I hope he comes back and I hope anyone, but I think it’s going to be, I think it’s going to be hard for him, you know, and also you get to that level when you’ve been up there and you’ve been icing it in Brock Lesnar, he just, you know, with the operation as well, I’m sure there’s lots of things I don’t know about or anyone knows about, but he just, I thought just forget this yeah once you took that knee to the gut I just think he’s thinking why I don’t need to be here yeah exactly and as soon as you think that game over do you get emotional when you fight Pete I find it out pretty well now I’m pretty I’m pretty emotionally cool it took it took a while of a lot of learning process yeah yeah do you think it’s a bad thing to be emotional oh to all more trash balls what yeah I yeah I think I used to let I think I I used to let some problems from my life come in and try to take them into the ring, try to like exercise those demons and use it to, you know, and it was a mistake, it didn’t really work for me.

1:31:58 And then I flipped right there the other way where I was going just not really bothered and a little bit, not fired up enough, you know, so it’s a hard balance and I can one fight to the next, everything changes, but yeah, I try to be pretty impersonal and emotionally cold about it. I wanted to ask you both one question and then I got to wrap this up. But Pete, once you told me that like, when you have a fight with a guy, okay, a lot of people see MMA for the first time and afterwards that the fighters kind of embrace and things like that, which most people find strange when they’ve watched boxing, when that doesn’t happen.

1:32:32 But Pete, you once said that the guy across the ring is probably the only guy in the whole stadium that knows what you’ve gone through. Yeah, yeah. To prepare for that fight. Nobody knows, your trainers don’t know, your girlfriends don’t know, and the fans sure as hell don’t know. And so you have this kind of kindred spirit with that guy, even if you can’t ever express it.

1:32:51 Yeah, I just fought there in Estonia this weekend. Yeah. And I had a very, very pleasant time with all the Estonian guys. And it turned out all the guys that were coming and picking us up and taking us out to dinner and paying for our meals and all this kind of stuff, they were all my opponent’s buddies. And we saw them there in the corner with them afterwards.

1:33:07 And then they came out afterwards and we sat next to each other and shared a drink and talked about the flight. And it was completely amicable. was really nice. I think you started voicing your frustrations before with traditional martial arts and things like that. I think sometimes people in non-competitive martial arts, they want to jump straight to the budo. They bypass the combat and the competition and go straight to the wisdom and the spiritual side of things and end up just sort of parroting something that, you know, more than Musashi said or something like that, you know, as if the great masters, you know, they don’t need to do all this. But when you go through that mill, you know, where you’ve had the highs, had the lows, you know, you’ve had the beatings, you know, and then you start to come out the other side and I think then you get licensed to discover those things.

1:34:04 Well, you do, there’s one thing reading about in a book and going, oh yeah, that’s, And there’s one thing being in it, especially when it’s pain and emotional and physical. So yeah, I think Pete’s right, even though I can’t remember the question. That’s better because I want to cut you off. Is there anything you, if there, is there anything, any advice you would give to the younger James Thompson, if you could give him a ring on the phone, like the 20 year old and say, do this or don’t do that?

1:34:33 I do. crack and some do exactly what you’re gonna do because that’s how I got here and I like who I am now I really do and that has made me all of it I’m like this now I got through it and it was four years five years and I’m like shit I look but I feel sick I feel sick it was horrible the dread of fighting and exactly like Pete said of losing, of being called, of people, because that was me, of all the things I’ve talked about. That was terrible. The gambling, which I couldn’t stop even though I was aware of it.

1:35:17 The stealing, I stole off my crap upstairs and went in a purse and took a credit card and lost six grand in about 20 minutes. All of it, all of it, I do it again. no problem because I’m as long as I’m exactly where I am now and that’s okay so that’s what that’s that’s so uh I would probably actually I’d probably say took a little bit because when I did my video and I look back from like it was like 10 years old I was like Jesus I didn’t think I’d changed that much I was like Jesus my nose what’s happened to my nose I used to think of looking You don’t look that bad.

1:35:59 Oh, cheers pal. I’ve seen worse. Yeah, I’ve seen worse. He’s going to me when he says that. I’ve only had my nose broken once.

1:36:04 That’s awesome. Thanks so much for your honesty, James. I appreciate it. It’s probably surprising to most people. So how do people get ahold of you?

1:36:09 Tell us about your podcast, website, all that good stuff. Well, I’m getting everything onto one website. So, I mean, I’m doing that at the moment, but my Twitter’s Jay Colossus. So, I’m going to be honest with you. I’m going to be honest with you.

1:36:14 I’m going to be honest with you. podcast website all that good stuff well I’m getting everything onto one one website so I mean I’m doing that at the moment but my Twitter’s Jay Colossus you’re quite active on that I yeah I looked I’ve completely become addicted to that I’ve spent it is fun once you get enough followers yeah chat well fun and I like it like you know I try and respond to everyone and even even like trolls and people who have got bad things to say I’m interesting I don’t I don’t want to spend, I made the mistake of spending too much time on it and I’m almost trying to, they say it’s so arrogant, but almost trying to kill them because anyone who’s sat there just spewing out evil, even if it’s whatever, is not well. Do you know what I mean?

1:37:06 They’re not well. I used to ignore the haters and just be like, just keep the positive energy. But funny enough, if you listen to about 10 of them, sometimes they have a good point. It’s really weird. Well, not only that, but let me just tell you this.

1:37:17 I hate to say that, but it’s true. No, no, no, no, no, that’s true. And what I found, I was on Logan’s board, and everyone was saying about her blog, oh, that’s good, I don’t know, thank you, thank you, thank you. And then one guy came out of nowhere, someone said, started saying, oh, drink bleach, die, you fucking, your mother’s a whore. And I was like, just like, God, that’s an old insult, we’re going old school.

1:37:40 And just banter and blah. Anyway, some guy messaged me and said, oh, don’t worry about that guy. I was like, oh, what guy? Oh, that guy there, he’s drinking, he’s made three freds about him drinking. So I said, oh, can you send me the fred?

1:37:53 Yeah, yeah. So I looked at his freds and they were all dark. Now I’ve been dark places and I was like, oh Jesus. So I sent him a message. I said, you like Paul?

1:38:03 Saw you about, I don’t know how to say it, so I said, you like Paul? Just a bit of banter. Hope you don’t mind. I looked at your previous post, there’s some dark stuff going on. I said, what’s all this drinking yourself to death shit?

1:38:16 He said, oh, I’m thinking I’m having a tough time. I’m thinking about starting a blog myself and writing my experiences down to help me through it. I said, yeah, you should do that. Why not? Don’t worry about people slugging it off.

1:38:32 I.E. you, because you’re scared of yourself because that’s what you’ve just done to me, but whatever. That was me, by the way. Yeah, I thought I’d finally recognised him. No, but that’s what he’s scared of himself, because that’s what he’s doing.

1:38:48 Now, I said all that, I think I’ve sent it, he said, yeah, no worries mate, I’ll keep reading, class, blah, blah, blah, and that was it, it didn’t take much, but that is where it’s coming from, because he was on a thread about my blog, because he wants to do it, so that when I say arrogantly, I want to get real haters, I want another guy. want to heal them. I don’t have to cut you off. You like going healing the world is what you’re doing. No. All right. You know, you know, you can’t let me speak. You know, you know, I’m a diverger just from, you know. All right. So Twitter, Jay Colossus. Oh yeah.

1:39:25 That’s one L by the way. It’s a James Colossus, James the Colossus Thompson on my Facebook. My videos, my YouTube is the Colossus collective, you know, subscribe to that. I’ve got two do come in, one of eight put you know ski which is he’s gonna be good and the other about falls funny enough you gonna fight him again by the way hopefully okay I’m trying all right and your website is colossal concerns calm might might my blog is colossal concerns calm if you follow me on Twitter and Facebook when I get the website up which is gonna have everything and a lot more all under one move okay and your podcast yeah oh yeah closest concerns on iTunes check it out Jesus Pete what are you doing with your spare time look at him I’ve got a Twitter but I never write anything on it what’s your Twitter right do you want these people to know yeah I think it’s at Irving Balletuda yes you trying to keep that on the down low on you um okay awesome I think you’re you’re off to LA Maybe later this month. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully. Okay. Awesome. Well, let’s look out there

1:40:36 Just looking at you the time Unwrap this up. Um, I just wanted to thank the guys at hover which are our sponsor They’re a domain name register They are actually gonna give a free domain name to whoever tweets the best quote from this episode and Jesus There’s been a lot of yeah, you’re a few optimist except I and use some shit in the cold or something. Anyways, if you tweet that and the URL of YouTube and the hashtag hoverdomain, you get a free URL. If you use that URL to start your own podcast, like Atlanta Real, then I promise to give you a 15 minutes conversation and bring you up the curve because I love people that do podcasts.

1:41:14 That’s why I love James so much. Oh. I’ve never even said that. Okay, guys, thanks so much, I appreciate it. If anyone wants to see our pretty faces, you can go to our YouTube channel, which is LondonRealTV.

1:41:28 Follow us on Twitter, come join the conversation, we’re on Facebook, and come see us at LondonReal.tv. Anything else? For now, at least. Bye. Thank you, Pete.