Cathy The Bitch Brown - Cathy "The Bitch" Brown

Full transcript: Cathy The Bitch Brown on London Real

1:35 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. This is Nick Gabriel and joining us today is Cathy the bitch Brown Who was the first female boxer to be crowned British champion who’s held a correct me if I’m wrong the WBC WIBF? B.F., world titles. There’s also a regular columnist for Men’s Health, Women’s Health.

2:12 She sailed across the Atlantic. There’s not much this woman can’t do. That’s right. Welcome. Thank you.

2:18 Wow. Did I get all that right? Nearly, but it’s fine. It’s good enough. All right. You know, Kevin, the first question I want to ask you is, I understand why men fight. I get it. I’m a man. I think Nick gets it too. But can you explain why a woman fights?

2:32 The same as a man wants to fight. It comes from the heart. It doesn’t. It’s just because I’ve got blue eyes and long hair and have a set of breasts on me. It doesn’t mean that I haven’t got the heart of a fighter.

2:43 It’s the same, it’s the same reason. Do you think all women have that same? No. No. Not all men have it.

2:50 True. No, I mean, I know you’re into your fighting. I don’t know if you’re into your fighting. Do you fight? Do you like it?

2:56 But I know a lot of men who just would hate to get hit in the face and they’re not aggressive at all. In fact, I’ve just done this journalist of a lady who has never hit anyone I’d never been punched before until eight weeks ago when she kind of ventured on this whole journey for a guardian piece. And she was really, she associated boxing with violence and then reverted that back to a childhood experience. So I have to do a lot of like cognitive behavior with her, like therapy with her.

3:25 But actually it wasn’t about the aggression with the boxing, it’s about a skill set. So a lot of people think that fighting’s all about let’s be really aggressive and like tear someone’s face off. when actually it’s more similar to like a chess game, you’ve got to really think, outthink your opponent. And it’s a real beautiful skill, it’s a beautiful art. It’s something that people, like violence, is so much different than fighting, and I don’t think it’s something people think about very often, because if an untrained person sees MMA, they’ll say that’s violent.

3:56 But no, violence is really almost when the other party isn’t agreeing to the scenario. Yeah. Is that what it is? Yeah, when you’ve got like two people one person is maybe not wanting to fight and the other ones yeah let’s just fight and you know if you’re getting mugged or is that the definition I don’t know it is the classical one but it’s a pretty good one it is right but I mean it is a typical for a woman to fight I mean you know it’s you know you see I see guys fight and I’m a mayor in boxing I’m like okay it’s it’s almost obvious to me sometimes I know not every man wants to fight but I mean you don’t see that many women fighting and why do you think that is? I think just as we’ve evolved obviously back in the day it was man go out to work, get the food, women stay at home, make the house look pretty, you know make babies and I think women have obviously become stronger as we’ve evolved and actually a lot of women go out and work and a lot of women are more ambitious and a lot of more women are getting into sport because they want to and that’s actually I really enjoy doing this sport and it’s not a feminist move at all it’s just actually women are just being allowed more freedom to do things that they enjoy doing rather than what they should be doing and what was back in the 1920s found more acceptable by a man and a woman to do you know I know that you know I’ll go out and work and I work six days a week but I’m also quite happy to come home and do my

5:20 Housework and cook. Do you not think that this general trend towards I guess the best word is androgyny, like men are becoming more feminized and women are becoming more masculinized. Do you not think that’s maybe a concerning thing? I mean, isn’t there a difference between men and women for a reason? I think if you look at, I think there’s too much pressure put on how someone should be in society. And I think, again, with evolution, everyone, you’ve got men who are really tough and really manly, and then you’ve got men who are really feminine, and vice-versa with women. And I think it’s just balancing out. I don’t think every man is going to become too feminine. I don’t think every woman is going to become too masculine. I don’t class myself as masculine. I do my nails. I do my hair. I love being a woman. I’m married to a man. I’ve never had any lesbian tendencies ever.

6:09 Do people assume that about you? Yeah. Is that a male insecurity just to assume that? I think, again, they associate boxing with being quite butch. They’ve been a male sport.

6:24 God, I love being a woman. I love putting my heels on and put my makeup on, put my hair on and being really feminine because essentially that’s what I am. I mean, from my time in martial arts, I don’t know about you, but most of the women, not most of them, but a large percentage of the women that come through the gym’s doors, they seem to be a little less feminine in general and definitely some of them have tendencies towards homosexuality and there’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s just what I’ve noticed.

6:53 Generalization. I said a lot of abortion rights. We’ve got some beautiful women at the gym, I mean some really feminine beautiful women who work out, they work out hard. Yeah, she’s got a group of girls at the third space and they used to just, yeah. I mean I’ve got a girl I work with, I do, because I don’t know if you’ve qualified as a sports psychologist last year and I’m studying cognitive behaviour now, therapy now. So I work with an Olympic weightlifter and I mean you think about Olympic weightlifter, you think about big butch women, But she is, remember Fiona Jenkinson, she’s blonde, she’s hot, you know, and she lives heavy, she lives heavy, all the guys.

7:31 But she’s far? No, no, she’s not boxing, it’s just Olympic where I live then. But she still looks really beautiful and she’s still feminine, she’s, you know, she loves men. But on that note, I mean, surely you can’t enjoy being punched in the face? I can honestly say I don’t particularly enjoy being punched in the face but you become so focused with what you’re doing and it’s a competition that you don’t actually think about it and once you get punched in the first few times you kind of get used to it.

8:02 It brings your awareness right into the moment. You become a warrior, an internal warrior comes out so yeah, you don’t shy away. I think if you’re scared to be punched, obviously I wouldn’t have been able to fight as well as I would have done. It’s funny because in boxing you really have to stay in the pocket really to be effective and so you really have to be ready to take a punch. Yeah.

8:25 A lot of people that train other martial arts and go into boxing, they realize that boxers more than anything know how to take a punch. And I’ve got some shots on my website of me taking some shots and I’m like… Is your face getting all like full? Yeah, it is. I’ve got one like that and my head’s all stretched out.

8:38 It’s like there’s a sliver coming out of my mouth. That’s amazing. And it’s one of my favorite shots. I’m actually… One of my favorite shots is actually me getting punched because my neck, you can see all muscles have gone. There’s nothing like having your bell run. It’s just such a crazy experience.

8:51 I’ve never been knocked down. I’ve never been on the floor. I’ve been out on my feet a lot. How do you know you’re out on your feet? Because you don’t remember what happened?

9:02 You don’t remember what happened. I’ve got quite a few fights out. I’ve gone to the back of the changing room and went, did I win? What happened? Who am I? To this day I can’t remember some of of my fights like from I don’t know one from about round seven onwards to my first martial arts coach he always used he had this saying which was higher consciousness through heart of contact and his whole thing was like yeah when you get punched that’s when you’re the most awake in your life it brings you into the now and into the present and into your nose yeah what do you miss fighting professionally so much I mean it’s took me six years to actually get my website together and actually sit and watch all my boxing videos because I was scared to watch them. Right when you’re still fighting? No when I’d finished because I think I was so heartbroken I had to stop. Why did you have to stop?

9:52 Because I’ve got neural damage in my neck from being punched a lot. Really? Is it concussive damage or neural damage? After one of my world title fights in Germany it was a pretty much total fight. I had nine different bleeds in my brain and I had to have a brain scan before that I could fly back and I I was just being sick, I was just vomiting everywhere.

10:13 The day after or the night of? The night of and then the day after. That’s not a good sign. That’s not cool. And I had double vision for like about two weeks and I had migraines and I was seriously concussed and I think with just your taking the blows and as much as you’ve got to keep your chin down, there’s an element, your neck just gets damaged.

10:31 So my spinal cord’s been damaged with constant… Jesus, I’m not safe. Was that why you had to quit? That’s why I had to quit. And even on my last fight, the physio had said, look, this Cathy, you can’t fight anymore after this because it’s going to be irreversible.

10:45 And what did you say, or did you accept that? I just got one more fight in me, and just come on. Which is standard for fighters. I mean, it’s like telling an actor not to go to the show anymore, right? It just, I was like, what do you mean, of course, yeah.

10:56 Yeah, and he said, look, so he came and he injected painkillers into my neck and my wrists were gone as well. So I had painkillers injected tenments before the fight in my wrists and in my neck. What? Is that legal? Yeah? Yeah, in Germany.

11:12 And it was in England, so yeah. Did you see, I’ve watched videos, Jesus Christ Cathy, you’re quite a brawler. Yeah, I mean I teach quite technical books into everybody, so like the two girls I’ve just had fighting were just for tech, really beautiful, but I think it’s because I could take a shot and so I used to just, and all the girls were much bigger than me who I fought. Taller. Taller, yeah.

11:36 I’m quite just short and stocky, whether I’m tall or skinny. Like if a man your size who hasn’t been trained in boxing much, like gets into the ring with you, you’ll just fuck him up six love, right? Yes, shadow of doubt, yeah. That’s so cool. Even someone who’s not my weight, who hasn’t been doing anything, I’ll fuck him up, yeah.

11:51 That’s fucking cool. What was your favorite shots? Were there like big overhand rights? No, left hooks. Left hooks to the body or to the face?

11:57 To the head. To the head, okay. I broke my hand once. What’s someone’s head? Yeah, I did.

12:02 When I moved from trainers, I was training with some one guy who wasn’t looking after me and I moved to Adam Booth So and and he was the taught me how to hoop pop because normally they’ll teach you with your hand up like that Where’s boxes hit like that? It’s better like that. Yeah, you’ve got more power use your bicep more. This is too high This is more solid. Someone’s only when you have your arm like that. You put your shoulder into it more. Not true Not true. You’ve got to use it from the hip anyway. But I underestimated the power that Adam had created with my shots just by changing that movement of the hand there. And the first fight with Adam, I chucked this left hook into this girl’s head, and I just felt my hand go, and it’s because I didn’t have a titan of grip. She was all over the place and then in between rounds I said I think I’ve broken my hand and he’s like right we’ll pull the fight I said oh no no maybe I’ve just sprained it. Did it hurt? Was it stinging pain? It was killing me and then I was like there’s no way I’m pulling out this fight with this girl because I know I can beat her with a broken hand it’s like you know it’s that mentality of that fight mentality. You train every day to like I’m training every day to like fight so I’m never backing down from anyone you know my husband’s six foot four and I tell you you think you could take him yeah I do and it’s stupid cuz he can fight you know I’m just like yeah

13:30 I’ll take him cuz I will I’ll fight I’ll fight until I can’t do any more so my hand went and then luckily cuz I’d hit her so hard she didn’t kind of want to stand there with me much anymore so she was on her back foot all the time and finished the fight and run it but my hand just like my thumb would just hang enough did you still throw punches with that left yeah just light ones I just was just chucking in and I was like, what’s the worst that can happen? She didn’t know. No.

13:55 Okay. No. And then China at the end of the fight, they would take the glove off, I was like, oh, careful. He’s like, I thought, I brought my hand, he was like, you told me it was all right. I said, you told me not to speak about it again, so I didn’t.

14:06 Have you, and I know you’ve seen it, I’m going to instead ask what your opinion was of million dollar baby. Okay, it was good until it just got a bit overrated, I mean fine, she sort of got got injured and she was in hospital and obviously it was a bit of a turnaround but then it’s like she lost her leg because she was lying still and her family came and tried to take all of her money off her and then she tried to kill herself by biting her tongue off and it just got a bit extreme and then it kind of… Did you say it was in the movie?

14:39 She lost her leg? Yeah, she had a leg amputated and it was ridiculous. She bit her tongue off and tried to swallow her own tongue, Jesus, I mean it was dark man. It just got a bit over the top for that and it kind of ruined it because it was all you know It was great first. Did you like the training? Was it actually? Training was really good And you know, she was really trying to please Clint Eastwood and you know, whatever his name was in the film I don’t even know and but there it just ruined it. The ending was just oh, this is just ridiculous Hey Brian, have you seen unboxing film called the boxer with Daniel Day-Lewis?

15:11 I have seen it a long time ago, but I haven’t seen it recently and everyone says he did such a great job of moving like a boxer. That’s something about boxing which I’m so I’m in such admiration of is if you look at a high-level boxer just shadow boxing man it is it’s almost like dancing. They are so balanced and composed and graceful it’s just incredible. It is a graceful sport. Everyone thinks that as you said earlier it’s not a question it’s so graceful. It’s a sweet science. You glide in around the ring. It’s an inefficient movement sport. I think it’s something I’d never grasp in my boxing training is that you need to be really efficient and if you don’t you’re gonna get tired. You also need to be really relaxed, which also seems quite contradictory because you know you’re hitting someone but the more relaxed you are. The more power you can generate. Yeah and you just move on the ring and the more clarity you have of your mind because you’re just nice and relaxed. Do you have something that pushes you through those fights like do you have something deep down that you’re angry at or do you remember or anything that gets you through or in your mind now that you’re into cognitive behaviors. If you look back at yourself, do you like this is the reason I am this way? I didn’t throughout my whole boxing career realize why I was so like undetermined and gritty but obviously since I’ve studied sports

16:26 Psychology and cognitive behavioral therapy I’ve come to realize that I was adopted when I was when I was a child and obviously when you grow up with your parents they were very loving and very giving but you almost feel like you have to prove your worth all the time. So I think because I’ve had my whole childhood, I didn’t have to prove my worth but you feel you’ve got this innate feeling that I’ve got proof that I’ve got to do something on this planet to make everybody go yeah yeah you’re worth to stay with us or you’re you’re worthy of this you’re worthy of that and I think that was my drive element and I mean for years I used to argue that I think it comes from my genes and because my genes are Scottish and both my natural parents are Scottish and I read a book called Bounce by Matthew Said, he’s a sports journalist and it’s about 10,000 hours of positive purposeful practice and I read his book because we were having this lecture from him at the gym and I was gonna argue with him going look this is how I am like my mum and dad that brought me up on into sport they’re the most placid quiet people you would who they’ve met, I’m totally polar opposite to them.

17:37 So it’s definitely from Jean, so this is where it comes from. And reading his book, I was actually at, you know, it’s not, it’s a drive that comes from within from something else that’s just driven me here, rather than, you know, I’m aggressive. It’s just, I think, feeling of, yeah, having to prove myself in something, and then I was in a violent relationship when I was younger and I had really bad domestic violence issues, and I started speaking for refuge, domestic violence, charity back last year, and I started speaking about obviously what I went through when I was like 16, 17, I got raped pretty badly, and I think I turned that into, oh, I wanna be able to defend myself in case this happens again, and I think just the mixture of this drive and this sort of other reasoning for me to be able to protect myself in case anyone wants to ever attack me like that again, and they both went together like ducks to water and I just, I became really good at boxing.

18:35 Have you made peace, that’s a really quick question. Have you made peace with those things in your life? Like I know this is probably a really weird question but, you know, have you made peace with that domestic violence and kind of, and that rape and then you’re bringing it up because it made you this great person? Yeah. Do you still, do you have any anger towards that?

18:52 No. No. No, I’m totally at peace with it. And in fact, when I made my speech, my husband just said, I don’t want to go because I’m going to want to go up and kill this guy. And I was like, look, it’s fine, it’s done, and this is, and I spoke to my mum about it, and I said, look, I’m gonna do this, you know, public speech about what I went through, and she’s like, why would you do that?

19:11 It was like years ago, it’s, you know, you’re married now, you wanna forget that. And I was like, no, actually, I’d like to help with the women who are in that situation, and just say, look, this is how I’ve become from it, you can turn it into something positive. And it’s therapeutic for you in many ways, probably. Yeah, it’s great, I mean, it’s just to speak about stuff that happened, it wasn’t my fault that it happened, it just happened to be dating an arsehole at the time and he had his own little issues which obviously weren’t my issues and so yeah I’ve totally put it to peace.

19:38 So a hypothetical scenario, it’s one night in a bar or a nightclub and a woman and a man get into an argument and the woman hits the man, do you think the man has the right to hit the woman back? This is really really controversial isn’t it? Yeah and I think no one should put their hand on each other. I think a woman shouldn’t be allowed to hit a man the same way. I think a lot of domestic violence the other way around is pushed under the carpet because obviously men are too embarrassed to talk about it but I still think it’s wrong if a woman should put her hand on a man. I think he should restrain her and I think he should maybe call the police about it and kind of deal with it in a more adult manner.

20:25 Let’s say you were in a bar and something happened, there was an altercation, and a woman gave you a clean straight right to the face. I didn’t know. Yeah, a woman that you didn’t know. Well I would slip it and come back with it. You slip the question too, motherfucker.

20:40 That’s true. I don’t think you can justify retaliation, retaliatory violence. You just can’t. What would I do? I personally don’t really have an issue necessarily if a guy punched me and punched him or if a girl, I still find that aggression is just not acceptable.

20:55 Some girls think it’s okay to kind of punch because they know they’re safe and I don’t believe in that. But yeah, that was a random question. I’m starting to wonder, if you raise a child in too nice of an environment, do they turn out to be these boring people? No, my upbringing was so boring. But these events happened to you and that made you this interesting person.

21:16 And that happens with so many people, you know, because they had something in their childhood, made them exceptional in some way or obsessive. Yeah. There’s that quote by Nietzsche, which is, you have to have chaos in your soul to give birth to a dancing star. And I think it’s true. I think what you said is totally true.

21:33 If you have a perfect life and a perfect childhood and upbringing, you’re not really gonna set the world on fire anyway, are you? Maybe you will. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. deal with some people might find the most smallest of things quite stressful and quite an impact on their lives it’s harder to say because obviously things that have happened to me have happened to other women I’ve spoke to and the effect that it’s had on them has been really detrimental even down to just I was talking to a woman the other day that was just she was adopted and she just couldn’t deal with it and I said look she goes how do you deal with that I’m like, well, I don’t, I just accept it.

22:09 It’s just how it was. You know, they couldn’t bring me up at the time. So I think in ratio, it’s hard because you might go through like something really small in life. I don’t know, you might get hit by a car and that might just have this devastating effect on you for the rest of your life. Someone else might deal with it totally different.

22:25 So maybe, I don’t know. Is that just choosing not to be a victim, do you think? Maybe, and I think so some people’s chaos might be someone else’s, this is not chaos. That’s definitely true. Yeah, so it’s hard to be able to define what someone has to go through in life to be interesting, I suppose.

22:42 I wanted to know, if you started your career today as a female boxer, when did you start? How old were you? It was late, right? When I was late, I mean, I started kickboxing when I was 22 and I did that for six years and then I got my pro boxing license when I was 28. 28?

22:56 So if you started now, do you think that the business of female fighting has progressed along significantly to make your career different because I know a lot of times in your fighting career you had to like pay to get Opponents to fly in to fight you I mean because you had to pay out to sell enough tickets to pay for Opponents to fly over with their trainer and accommodation and then put money in the promise. That’s even worse than being a jiu-jitsu climber To sell like over 5,000 pounds with the tickets had to like sell my soul to all my friends and just you know getting this Daily Star with like my boobs out covered in gloves and it’s like I had to really push it. You’re a promoter basically, kind of promoting at the end of the day. So it’s kind of you know yeah I had to really, now it would be different because with the women in the Olympics for the first time in the show I think women would get more sponsorship, I never got any sponsorship, whereas now I think companies would be less afraid to go yeah I was fun to a female boxer. I was like, oh, I don’t know what my company tainted with a woman fighting So I think they’ve still got your dinosaur ways. I mean this it’s the UK I mean if you go to Germany back in 98 when I was starting to fight it was huge a female boxing Yeah, I mean the girl I fought was you know how much she got paid like Half a million really she’s like the face of fitness first. She’s like an app. She’s loaded like David

24:22 And what happened? Did you beat her? No, I did, but not actually. Officially? Officially. I mean, I put her down.

24:31 She got back up, but she got a standing account. They didn’t score it. But she had the world title. Would it have mattered if you had won? I mean, as far as from the sponsorship point of view.

24:41 No, it wouldn’t. Right. And that’s… No, and again, give me more drive to succeed. I think a lot of days now, the mailboxes are given a silver spoon.

24:50 And because they’d like Vicky Hatton and Amir Khan and even David Hay, and I love David because he’s a really good friend of mine, but things have just given them to them so easy that they haven’t got that drive anymore. They’re making so much money. Easy how? As in they get the right fights at the right time? Or they’re so blessed because they can get these sponsors and things like that.

25:12 They’ve got the sponsors and they’ve got the payment from each fight that they get that they don’t even have to work. I mean when I was throughout my whole boxing career I was working full-time because I used to be a forensic photographer so I used to photograph dead bodies in the prison living. Isn’t that crazy? And I give it up to when I got my professional license so I could work in the gym so I could be able to earn money and train and it would just make my life easier.

25:34 Do you miss a good crime scene? Oh yeah. I’m addicted to criminal minds. I mean you’d see like a dead body in pools of blood and you could take pictures of it? People had…

25:43 Did it smell bad? Stunk. Jesus. I went into one room one night and it was in Brixton, it was like dark with pitch black and the neighbors had complained of this smell that was gone through wherever, this stink coming from next door and we haven’t seen the guy next door for a while and I got caught at this crime scene, it was like in the middle of the night and we got these torches and it was just something out of a horror movie, like torches and then you’re walking up all these stairs and then all of a sudden you’ve got these dead bodies like this.

26:13 How many bodies were in the room? How many? How many bodies were in the room? Just one. Oh, just one.

26:18 But he’s like 20 stone. His body had just started melting out of every orifice covered in maggots and it’s like… Wow. So yeah, right, and you’ve just got to photograph this with torches and you’ve got your flashlights and… Whoa.

26:30 And then they’ve turned him over and he’s farted because obviously he’s full of air and we’re all laughing and because you have to have this, like, quite sick view. You have to laugh, right? We’re laughing at you dirty bastards, you know? I remember a buddy of mine used to work in a mortuary or a morgue, I can’t remember what’s the difference between those two? They’re the same.

26:48 And I mean, he got so desensitized to it that him and his buddies would take pick, they’d like arrange the bodies in these macabre positions like that. This one guy had been in a motorbike accident, his head had been taken off his shoulders. So they like sat him down and put his head under his arm and then had like another dead dude sitting with his arm. And I was like, dude, this is pretty fucked up, bro. These are like dead people.

27:10 And he was like, you get used to it. We do have to develop a defense mechanism of some sort because it’s, you know, you see some horrible stuff. But I think I was so fascinated. You go into a crime scene and you can just like, wow. In all honesty, how difficult is that job?

27:28 I mean, besides the overcoming the grossness of the whole thing. I mean, surely it’s just pointing the camera. It’s actually a really easy change. It sounds easy, yeah. Did it play well?

27:37 No, it was really bad. I am more now doing personal training. Fair enough. Because my mum’s like, why didn’t you go back to it? Because my mum was devastated that I’d given up.

27:46 My job was with the police as a forensic photographer to become a fighter. She was like, because they were at middle class, they’re really quiet. You know, if you said, like, you know, this is red, she’d be like, oh yes, yes, it is. Because she wouldn’t want any confrontation. It’s really mad how I’ve turned out.

28:01 Because you know she’s really quiet and then why have you done that why have you given up your career you’ve got degree in photography you’ve given up this amazing career to fight and I never came to any of my fights because they just didn’t relate on any level but yeah it’s a what is the state of female boxing today I mean I’m talking about it like it’s advanced but has it yeah I mean not in this country again Nicola Adams has put it a little bit on the map so we’ve got more amateur women coming through but I just don’t think the promoters are gonna get on it, the professional promoters are gonna get on it. What about the States? States is massive already. It is. Yeah it’s huge. Who fights them? I mean everyone fights. You’ve got Leyla, you’ve got Muhammad Ali’s daughter. Is she still fighting?

28:40 Yeah. She’s a good fighter as well. Okay. You know you’ve got it’s huge in Germany, it’s huge in Italy. Who’s not here? Who in your opinion is the most technical or the best boxer of all time?

28:53 Who? In your opinion? Oh my opinion. Mike Tyson. Really? Just because and we’ve all got a lot of personal pains, but I just loved his passion and he used to cry before he used to go into a fight because he felt so strongly and he was scared and his nerves and he was a just brilliant until unfortunately his trainer died and then he got left to the rat race of the promoters who were all about money.

29:20 Is it a tricky game, the fight game, the promoters and everything? David and Adam, David Hay and Adam Booth seem to have maneuvered their way quite well and taking ownership of their brand and they don’t seem to be victims to promoters. No, they’re not and then they just didn’t want to bow down to anybody and get shafted up the arse by any promoter because they do, it’s all about money and who can I make more money from and who can I get television rights from and David Adams played it really well because they’re just like, look, you sign our contract the way we want to do it or nothing.

29:51 And David’s, I mean, David’s got so much power and so much talent, he just hates training. Is that it? Yeah. He just hates training. He always looks in great shape.

30:01 He’s in great shape. But he just hates it. He finds it really laborious. He’s just like, oh. I guess it does get old after a while, right?

30:07 See, I don’t know. Not for you. I love training. I love it. That’s funny.

30:12 What do you think of the state of heavyweight boxing, David, his career, all that stuff? I thought the Chisora fight was just a joke. Okay. I can’t stand Derek’s horror, I just think he’s arrogant and he’s, you know, when you go over to another country to represent the UK, you represent, you don’t just go and spit in people’s faces, it’s rude, you know. And I just think, you know, David should have accepted his defeat by Klitschko gracefully without going on too much about his broken toe, he did have a broken toe, but it just got over, it just got overhyped and because it got overhyped, it made David look a bit silly and I just think obviously that was just the media just focusing on it but yeah it’s it’s difficult I mean I’d love David to get another fight with the Klitschko or the other Klitschko brother. That’s the only reason he’s gone, oh hopefully.

31:03 That’s like the last fight left there’s not many fights left unless you get this just sort of nonsense it’s kind of more of a side show than anything. I just don’t find men’s boxing very interesting I mean I’m a big fan of EMMA and UFC so for me that’s just much more exciting than when I watched two heavyweights go 12 rounds. For me I don’t get as excited about it. It’s unfortunate and I love a good boxer and I love a good boxing fight I just don’t see him very often. Well MMA has taken over boxing now it’s people are just so hyped about MMA. What do you think about MMA?

31:36 I love it I think it’s great I mean I picked out quite a lot of shows and it’s a real it’s a massive skill set because you’ve got to be able to fight on the floor. So you’ve got to be able to do stand-up and then you’ve got to be able to do on the floor. You saw what happened to James Toney right? No I didn’t see. Yeah he tried to fight a couple years ago against a really good mixed martial artist and it’s just I mean you could just see that. He was just taking off his feet in the first five seconds and it was over. So it was yeah he didn’t even get a chance to swing because the guy was like why should I take my chances trading Potomac. Me too I mean if I was gonna fight someone who’s really good on their stand-ups like take them to the floor straight away.

32:14 Have you trained Jiu-Jitsu at all? No, but I’m gonna do it, I will, I am. You had the third space, you had great resources at the third space. One of them’s left, Chris has left now. David Hay trains some Jiu-Jitsu.

32:26 He’s tapped some guys out. And I used to wrestle with Adam a lot. We used to practice like trying to choke each other out. Sounds really sexual, doesn’t it? We used to practice choking each other out.

32:36 You trained Jiu-Jitsu as well. No, it’s kind of like, I think when I was boxing as well, we had such a strong male team and it was like, I was obviously the only female you’ve got, you know, I used to go off to Miami with the boys and share a room. You would go with them? Yes, I love it. I used to love my job.

32:52 Wake up in the morning with five boxers with tight underpants, I’m making you eggs, I’m just like, what can I ask for? Sounds awesome. That’s probably why I’m boxing anyway, nothing to do with it. What’s the equivalent for us of you to go away with a ballet team or something? Was the training good in Miami?

33:08 We used to sprint on the beach in the morning, get up at 60 or sprint, go home, have eggs and go back to sleep again, wake back up, go for a rest, it’s brilliant. Did you get some nice ex-Cuban coaches and a different way of looking at boxing down there too? No, because I was still training with Adam when Adam still came with us out there, so we were still working with Adam. It was just great to go and check out all these gyms and I had to go and, oh shit, I can’t remember her name now, is it Duval?

33:37 Melissa Duval. Her brother was a boxer who fought Roy Jones Jr. and I can’t remember his name at the moment. But I went and sparred with this girl. She was like much heavier than me and had to go into like the ghetto of Miami and sparring this like really like horrible boxing school, but it was wicked.

33:55 Wow. You know, there’s a weird phenomenon that’s happening lately in MMA and there’s a female mixed martial artist named Ronda Rousey. She was actually a bronze medalist in judo in the Japanese Olympics, but she has now just been signed to the UFC as like the first female ever. And Dana White’s just said if they have, um, her first fight’s going to be for the title since she has it and it’s going to be the main event of an entire UFC event, you know, which brings millions and pay-per-views millions and they just said it.

34:25 And she is an extremely exciting fighter. I mean, she’s, she’s just doesn’t quit. She’s finished all of her opponents by armbar in the first round and I love her and it’s just amazing to me that they’re going to be, you know, headlining events. I just wonder what you think of that. I think it’s absolutely fantastic.

34:41 I mean, I think women getting into sport in general and just being respected as a sports person, well, I don’t know, what’s that woman doing boxing for, MMA for? This is a sports person and who’s got as much talent as a man, you know, they’re the same. if you look past the sex and just look at their skill and their technique. I just think for me it’s, I hear you and I completely agree with you but I always, when I see women fighting I just see them losing that softness like you know if a woman takes a huge shot to the chest you know like a man’s got a pectoral that like protects his chest whereas a woman’s got this like soft tissue you know what I mean like breast tissue and It’s kind of like the softness of women, to me, doesn’t lend itself well to fighting.

35:31 That’s probably just an ingrained thing that you have, that you’ve been brought up with your childhood thought. It’s been put into that women are soft and it’s hard because if you could just take a different view. I mean, you don’t really go to punch each other in the breast. Yeah, but you know what I mean? It’s like…

35:47 I mean, I can be really soft and, you know, and I’m like talking about fighting now, But you can get, you can still be soft and still enjoy a really like a school for heavy sport. I think just it’s hard to break something that’s been like almost innate and naturally for you. Well, I guess my, my, the thought that I have in my head is if like, do we have a guest in here the other day? Um, yeah. It was Emma when she said that women, men aren’t nice to look at men aren’t aesthetically pleasing and naked.

36:15 Yeah. Women are women. No, women are beautiful to look at. If you look at the female form, you can see, okay, this thing has been designed to bring another soul into existence. This thing would fight for its baby in the wild.

36:31 But it’s unlikely that back in the day, it was fighting as much as the man was fighting. The male was going out and killing the saber-toothed tiger, whatever it was. I think it’s conditioning. I think also, and I understand what you’re saying, Mick, I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I must say when I see women with like huge black eyes and like blood and lacerations on their face, for a man I’m used to it from watching MMA, but for the woman I have that extra like, oh, it’s just a little harder to watch.

36:57 But I do love watching women’s mixed martial arts, because for me, men, men, men, like what do they do? They want to fight each other. So for me, men going into MMA is for me a little obvious sometimes, but when I see women, it’s like these girls have gone above and beyond their natural tendencies of society and so they’re there to mean business and so when I see a girl fight in Strike Force I go out on my way to watch it and that’s why Rhonda Rousey sells fights I think she’s also very skilled she’s a personality but I just I find it more interesting than watching two random dudes.

37:27 You see evolution though isn’t it as well we’re evolving as a as a society of we have to accept them everything’s changing and things are changing like whether it be sort of your scientifics or changing everything’s moving on and we have to just kind of adjust with the times. It’s like in that movie Starship Troopers that sci-fi movie there’s no male female changing them so like there’s this one scene where they’re all in the shower and they’re all naked but yeah the soldiers all male or female they’re all treated like a unit like an infantry unit doesn’t matter whether they’re male or female I guess that’s what you kind of speaking about. Yeah I mean I think they can all be so far you can take a equality because obviously naturally men are genetically made stronger obviously you are stronger than a woman like you’d be stronger than me if you were both training and on a physical level but there’s only so far that you can go but that I think it’s like with me I just wanted to be accepted as a female fighter I don’t want to fight a man I don’t want to be like yeah I want to show I’m stronger than a man I just want to I’m loving for I love boxing I love the skill I love the training I’m dedicated as much as I am probably more so than a lot of guys I know and I just want to be respected for as a female being able to fight and being respected within the boxing community I don’t know like so yeah I want to be able to fight you for example and you know knock you out

38:50 Because I’ve got no desire to do that. Do you think you could take Brian though? Yeah I could take Brian. I think so too. He’d probably get me on the floor. It’s tougher than you think.

39:00 Too tense. Yeah, I’ve gotten better. He used to be worse. He used to come into the gym and he used to be like, why doesn’t this talk to anyone really like solid face all the time? He explains a lot. I was, yeah.

39:17 Really serious about everything, you know. Don’t even bust a joke, you know what I mean? Stop it. I trained every week at the third space for seven or eight years. Every week?

39:35 Every week. Usually Saturdays and Sundays. I would box with Chris and then we’d train jiu-jitsu afterwards. Everything was serious though. I took it very seriously.

39:42 You take everything seriously, man. Yes, I think I do. That’s really why you’re so successful. I’m just trying to turn that into an asset. You have to get it balanced, you see, I’m really serious about stuff, but you know.

39:53 I’m trying. Yeah, this show is helping you from America on you. Yeah. Yeah, that’s why it’s American. You’re from America too, huh?

40:05 So so you can’t fight anymore, how do you find new things to do that? Do you enjoy they’re really challenge you because nothing can challenge you like a fight What can it why don’t you go into a war zone? Yeah, I mean, I’m constantly striving for things to do I mean I studied sports psychology, so that just keeps my mind occupied. I’m studying cognitive behavior therapy I’m doing like I’ve done the Charles Paul aquarium one or two, so I’m constantly doing education stuff I’ve had a couple of white color fighters fighting. Is that fun? I loved it so much. Okay teaching. I’m trying I’m yeah, and you train up some guys That’s what I’ve talked I’ve trained one guy at the beginning of the year who did really well and then two women Okay fought last Friday white collar women boxing how that must get the fans must like that Yeah, it’s just that most trainers are really lazy so the girls that they were fighting had had like fights before and been training for years and the skill set and I’m just saying that I’m an incredible coach, but I am and Yeah, their skill set was really really out shunned the other girls by like heaps Because normally white-collar fighters are caught all these clubs and I was like, yeah Just getting into a class where I was really I mean I really focused on their skills in their head movement and their foot movement and got them really into the whole sort of boxing skill and I got so engrossed into it and then so engrossed at

41:23 The sports psychology side of it with them that I was totally drained after the fight because I’d given them my all. I can’t just train you and just train a little bit. Was it hard to watch? I thought it was gonna be harder because I was like I’m gonna want to get in there and smash the shit out of the girl that they’re fighting, I know I am, but they did so well. I was good.

41:45 Psychology do you what’s a base psychology that you try to tell them to walk into those fights with? Knowing that the amount of hard work that you’ve put in I think a lot of people a lot of people feel like they’re naturally good at stuff and no one’s naturally good at anything but I think if you look at the hard work that you’ve put into something and that the and whilst I’m training them I give them some I mean I give them some really heavy sessions well I mean I’ll stand in front of them and get them to defend against me and and put them under so much pressure and shout for them to relax under it. So I do a lot of psychology in the lead up to the fight.

42:20 So when they get to the fight, that’s the easy part. So actually she said it’s actually the fight was so much easier than training with you. And that’s what I wanted to do. I wanted to break every single psychological barrier in training, like an everywhere she performed. So I get to know their real nitty gritty emotional stuff that rocks them and just get them there and get them to that breaking point in training.

42:42 And then come the soft side. So I’d say balance the soft and the hard. So that when they come to the fight, they’re like, yeah. So you don’t talk to them per se and say this is the strategy. You’re doing this on a subconscious level?

42:53 No, I said everything you’ve done, you’ve done already, everything, all the hard work you’ve done in training, you know, you’ve just got to rely and have faith in me that you know fine well that you’re going in this fight more prepared than your opponent. Your opponent’s nowhere near as prepared as you are because they won’t have trained as hard as you. They wouldn’t have been trained like you. They’re not as strong as you. And, you know, I’ll throw that into their mind for like weeks.

43:19 Okay. What about when the lights hit because that go all out the window? All you have to do is breathe and relax and have faith. The more relaxed you are, the more you breathe, the greater you’re gonna be. And what are you like in the corner?

43:31 Are you like slapping their face? I wasn’t allowed in that corner because they’re a white color. You’ve been banned. Oh no. No, I’ve got my pro, yeah, I’ve been banned now.

43:38 I’ve got my pro license, like coaching license. So if we’re seen to be in the corner of a white collar fight, I’m an amateur fighter. We’ll get our license to go first. So I had to pay someone to go to the corner and I was sat like ringside by like screaming, yeah. And then, and then again, I’d slip under the rope and slap their leg and shout at them and go and sit back down again.

44:01 So, yeah. I saw David DeHaye fight Carl Thompson at a Wembley Arena like eight years ago, 10 years ago, and Cathy, while we were in the front row Cathy was behind me, and she was like, come on, David! I bet you loved that. Three rounds until Bado had to throw the towel in that fight, and she was going nuts. You must have absolutely loved that.

44:20 That’s all I remember from the fight, Cathy. And the ringing ears for the next two days after it. Are your hands classified as deadly weapons like a mailbox? Wow. No, they really are?

44:29 Yeah, if I hit someone, I’ll get knuckled. Can you show your knuckles on the camera? There’s some serious looking knuckles. That was some horrible knuckles. See that one there?

44:36 It’s raised up. They’re really classified? I mean, like seriously. So once you become a pro boxer, then you… You have offensive weapons.

44:44 So if you’re involved in any kind of assault or battery, then you can be charged with more serious crimes than just me? Yeah. Really? It’s like job blogs using a knife. Me using these.

44:57 It’s like what, like a butcher using a knife? Yeah, no. But then you can kill me. Like job blogs. Just anyone, normal, someone off the street, stabbing someone.

45:05 That’s like a GBH. This would be G.B. Edge. Really? And when did that come into effect?

45:11 Like when were they classified as those? When you were coming from- Soon I got my pro license, yeah. And so, wow, that’s heavy. You’re saying, huh? So you are the human weapon, basically.

45:21 Human weapon. Human weapon. Human warrior bitch. That’s insane. So, I mean, you’ve got some of the crazy stuff like you sailed across the Atlantic.

45:29 What’s that all about? Oh, God, that was- How does anyone hang out with you? He said, I’m intense. I mean, seriously, what are you like- You’re still more intense than I did. I don’t know. No, no, you haven’t seen her in the ring and stuff.

45:39 No, seriously, I’m fighting in the house. I haven’t seen you in the ring, but I’ve seen you in the London Real Studios and we’re having an argument, and that’s pretty intense. Anyways, so the question was for you. So the BBC approached me and they wanted to, they were doing a documentary on taking a sports person out of their sport and putting them into another sport and see how they would fare. And they had, there were six of us. I can’t even remember who the people were and I got chose to sail across the Atlantic given the fact that I don’t swim much and I’m actually quite scared of water and so they trained me up for four months. I went down the Isle of Wight and did sort of the BT Global Challenge and I took part in the Volvo Baltic Race. This wasn’t solo sailing, this was a team of four of us and it was a gutted out 60 foot yacht so there’s no beds and no cabins and no luxury like champagne decks.

46:31 Did you enjoy the training or did you not like sailing and it was really hard hard It’s cold and it’s wet and it’s like I hate water. They chuck you in I don’t like sailing It’s really hard work It is hard work, right? You don’t get to hit anybody And then and then we have to set across the Atlantic which is what three thousand something miles and the fact that right If you fall off this bowl, you’re basically dead and because you’re so far from land so we went from New York to England and which is actually more difficult from England to New York with the wind and everything like that so we were doing the more difficult leg and I got really seasick for the first 40 hours I mean I was vomiting everywhere and they were gonna turn the bar around I was like no fucking way just let me lie down for like let me have a shift off because you did four hours, four hours sleep, six hours work so you’d be like four hours just on this bunker full of water and then you’d all switch round. You’d get more sick when you’re sleeping? Because when you would get up and you were tired and then the boat was just banging, the weather was terrible because we’d hit this really good weather, sort of low pressure I think, low pressure can’t remember now and it pushes you but the boat was just like coming out the water and banging and banging for like ages so I was just been sick. I said, let me just lie down for letting me have a shift off and I left shift

47:56 Off and I’d drunk and I didn’t move for like 10 hours. And then I made myself get back up and I actually conquered it. So and then we got back on it and then we hit this really bad Atlantic storm and we nearly capsized and we had to drop all the sails and we must have been so excited. You’re so in the moment, you don’t think, oh my God, I’m about to die. Literally, if you went over, you’d be dead. Yeah, we’d be dead. Because They wouldn’t be able to catch you.

48:22 They wouldn’t be able to pick you up. No, because it’s too far from land for the helicopter to come out and get you. And the people on the boat, I mean, they’d move away from you too quickly for… Yeah, because we’re going at speed. We’re like, we’re on a racing yacht.

48:33 We’re like the Ferrari of the sea. The boat was like the Ferrari of the sea. And so we’re just like, right, it was all hands on deck and then we had to just drop all the sails and we lost our spinnaker sail, which is a big one at the front. And we had to just sit inside, just praying that we weren’t going to capsize. What was the rest of the crew like, were they qualified?

48:52 Oh, massively. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, God, yeah. I mean, I was with a woman called Emma Richards who sailed around the world so long and had some America Cup races with us as well. So we had a solid team that was blessed and that was an amazing experience and had so much time to reflect because even though you’re racing, you know, you spend a lot of time just sitting and while you’re just going straight and until you have to tack and go the other way and move with the weather. But we had to sew the sails because we ripped it and we had to sew, once we got away from the storm we’d lost the wind so then we had to sew all the sails by hand and got them away. No we had to do it on deck once the storm had gone but we lost the wind then and then we didn’t break the world record because we’d lost the wind and we end up doing it in four days later so it took us 13 days.

49:46 It’s supposed to be eight days. It took me 13 days at sea. And then luckily because I was seasick for two days we had two days of extra food so it was good that was seasick because then we had food to eat. Okay. Yeah it was mad it was an amazing experience I mean. Did they document it? Yeah. Really? There’s a clip on the website.

50:06 Time. The thing is they didn’t get the storm because that was all hands on deck on the storm and it was like literally shit we’re gonna die and yeah the camera that was on the back of the bottle just got knocked out and it was just like a bit crazy. Have you been sailing since? No and I did I wish and I’m stupid really because I should have done my yacht masters and because I’ve got all the the nautical miles under my belt and I just need to set the exam but you’ve got to go and do like a two week course which I’m gonna do just cuz it’s another string to my bowl. So all right So you have more of these crazy adventures coming up? I’d like to I’d like to raise huskies across the Arctic I’d love to do that. I’d love to just actually that sounds fun. Yeah, that sounds more. I mean, I guess you can freeze Yeah, and just I think you we freezes and you’ve got me really careful where you we and Yeah, I love to say it. I’m just shocked. I mean you you do everything I get bored. I have to write. What’s next?

51:07 Maybe the most challenging thing for you would be to go sit in an ashram for two weeks and do a silent meditation retreat. Maybe that would be… That would be massive. Yeah. Yeah.

51:17 I don’t think I’d enjoy it. The challenge is no challenge. Yeah. Or maybe that would be a challenge. Silent retreats kill me.

51:23 Do you do any kind of meditation or anything like that? I have started, yes. Okay. with cognitive behavioral therapy I’ve learned quite a lot about myself and I do need to and I’ve calmed down a lot I mean when I was fighting and I feel a bit to it. Were you really aggressive or was it focused, intense? Focused, intense and slightly aggressive. Thinking about your training or just aggressive? Just aggressive, I just get really angry with people and it’d be just like you know. I always found that fighters since they got it all out in the ring they were less aggressive. No, Not for you?

51:54 No, it didn’t at all. It didn’t calm me down. After fighting, I had to find a way of being a bit more feminine, more calm, because actually it’s much more powerful. Like I’d kick off, like someone would argue with me, and I’d just flare up and I’d be really intense. And now I’m quite enjoying argument because I’m quite calm, and I find that I can make that other person look much smaller by just being calm.

52:21 And I’m still saying my, I still get my point across and still like, this is how you are, you’re an absolute asshole, but this is the reasons why you’re doing much more calmer. So, and I found I’ve got much more empowerment out of doing that. So actually, yeah, now I’m not so, I still get angry inside and I can still sit on the bus in the morning and when I smash someone’s head against the window repeatedly quite often, but I just don’t do it. And you know, I breathe a lot and you know, because people are just, And what gets my goal is I think people are just so selfish and they just have no self-awareness about us, our spatial awareness.

52:56 Yeah, that really bothers me. That annoys me. And then it just gets my back up within a second. You say? They’re so gimpy.

53:03 They’ll be walking down the street and then they’ll… They’ll stop. Yeah, they’ll stop. Right in the middle of the walkway. And I’ll just plow through them.

53:09 Even if it’s grandma. Especially if it’s grandma. Shit. I think we’ve spoken about this before in the show when there’s this rule in England, sort of rule but I mean it’s just something an intelligent person would do anyway is when a train stops a busy train stops at the platform if you’re waiting to get on the train you move out the way so that the people who get off the train can get off and these gimps I don’t know what’s wrong with them I don’t know if they like developmentally delayed or something but they stand right in front of the doors and they try to elbow their way on it’s crazy it’s it’s both of you for this yeah I’m with you it’s the one I don’t know why just pisses me off more than anything. I do want to elbow everyone in the face.

53:48 So it’s public transport mostly? Public transport and I just, you know, I don’t know, yeah, especially like there was a guy in the bus last night and then I don’t get on the tubes anymore. Why is that? You’re just gonna snap and kill someone? Yeah, you know, I just started getting panicky when it stopped in tunnels.

54:03 It started getting me to claustrophobic and I’m like it’s a control thing. I want to get out now. Can you imagine the story of the headline like a tube breaks breaks down and she breaks down, X woman box that kills seven, I can’t see it, I can’t see it. I would thought as you get older you would find a way to get calmer and find a way around that. I think it’s you in the tunnel and you’re underneath.

54:24 Okay. It is scary at home. If you think about it, yeah. I just don’t know. Yeah.

54:29 And then, stupidly, it’s now ingrained in there. And I will deal with it at some point, but so I travel on the bus, so then you’ve got all these idiots and the guy last night was listening to his music on his phone I’m not loud, I just wanted to just go and just grab his phone for that window. The bus behavior is much worse than the behavior on the tubes, and the chairs are really small on the bus. I hate them. And everyone just acts worse than they would on the tube.

54:50 Most people are pretty well behaved on the tube. The bus is for peasants, bro. Yeah. Hey, shut up, man. I get on the bus.

54:57 Don’t stop there. That’s right. No, but you said about the yelling thing, and I’m a firm believer, if you ever see somebody on a mobile phone yelling, they are the person with the less power. Yeah. They’ve lost it.

55:08 Anyone’s screaming, it’s because no one’s respecting them with their normal tones, they have to increase it. So it’s actually a sign of weakness. They’re feeling they’re losing their power and their controls with it, yeah. Even though I do yell sometimes. But yeah.

55:20 We all do, but we’re all, I mean, I’ll shout now and again, I’m not completely perfect. And now and again, someone will just, it’ll just go. But majority of the times, compared to how I used to be, I’m much more calmer. Cathy, if you had to make a phone call to like the 25 year old Cathy Brown and give her a bit of advice, you know, what would you tell her? I’d probably tell her to chill out a little bit. Just chill out.

55:43 We had someone on yesterday and you said the exact same thing. Because I was just too, yeah. In what way? I just, I just, and in fact I would tell myself to love myself a little bit more, because I didn’t back then. You kind of develop as you get older, self-love, you have to, You’re just too cruel and too hard to yourself for your entire life, and then when you get to a certain age, you’re like, gee, I’ve got to start liking myself, man.

56:14 Because I think you try to be how other people want you to be when you’re younger because you want to fit in, and then I think you get to that age where you’re like, you know what, this is how I am. I don’t give a shit who likes me. And if people just don’t like me, that’s just how life is. And so I’ve become more relaxed in that sense that I’m actually myself more now than I was at 25 because you put all this sort of mask on. Were you hard on yourself at 25?

56:39 Yeah, I was really hard on myself and I put this mask on all the time and I just wasn’t chilled enough. And the fact going, you know, this is how I am and I think you want too many people to like you when you’re younger which is ridiculous. So yeah, that’s what I would say to myself when I’m 25. the mask was like the tough girl mask or the I’m not gonna tell you my emotions mask I’m not gonna tell you my emotions mask okay I’ll just be this hard girl I’m fine you know this suit of armor now I mean because you asked me about any of my emotional like I’m an emotional retard you know I’m quite happy to say that in public now I’m just like yeah my emotions are just messed up Oh, they’re just all over the place all over the place, but I accept them and so that’s just how it is You’re a woman to be fair. I’ve got so many issues like We all do though. We all do. It’s true. Yeah, but but there’s nothing wrong with that. I think issues are great That’s what who makes us it’s issuing what you say is you get older You kind of are forced to just kind of start loving yourself. Yeah, I mean it or off yourself one of the two You just kind of have to be like, okay, this is the deal Yeah, it’s like James Duygen said life is is already short But it can almost be really long and you’re gonna be the one living in your own head for the rest of your life Accept yourself and go, you know what?

58:04 Hey, I kind of like myself and I think wasn’t only I think is when I finished the boxing is when I just started I was single for like five years and I was just like wow Yeah, first it was really scary and then I just got peace with myself and I thought yeah, you know you’re actually all right you’ve had a really good life and you’re pretty cool man and you’ve got your issues and you know you’ve got some messed up mental thoughts going to every day but this is how it is otherwise you’re fine otherwise hey well just think if everything was perfect and everyone was perfect just how boring it would be no characters no you have to have issues someone you gotta have issues don’t worry we do yeah if you were brought up like you know we’re like Stepford Wives. Do you remember Stepford Wives?

58:49 Sound familiar? We don’t think I was thinking. Stepford Wives was one of those like, I don’t know if you remember it. Weren’t there robots in the end? They were kind of like, no, they were just all like in one way and they behaved in a certain fashion and everything was so perfect and so pretty. How boring.

59:02 That’s not you. Cathy, how do people get a hold of you? Oh, I’ve gone to my website, kathybrown.co.uk. Okay. And my contact details are on there.

59:10 Okay. And you, do you- Cathy with a C. Cathy with a C. And do you still train people? Do people want to come find you? Are you the third space?

59:16 I’m at the third space. Okay. So I’m the third space gym. I’ve been there forever. I’ve been there 11 years.

59:21 Jesus. I love it. I’ve got such a beautiful set of clients and then my clients I’ve had for like eight, seven years and they just stick to me like glue and because I do variations with them and then I get into the head and they become like my friends. You get into the head, huh? Yeah.

59:37 That’s what I do. I haven’t done cognitive behavior therapy for me. She has a cult following in the third space. Really? Yeah.

59:44 Shoot me in the trains and yeah. They’re all cool. They’re at my classes every… I run eight classes a week. I do about 50 personal training sessions a week. 50? Yeah. Five zero. Yeah.

59:55 Yeah. I’m pretty… I’ve got to calm it down a little bit now though. Jesus. I’m tired all the time. Yeah. That’s serious. Well now we barely got you booked in. But I love more my clients and I don’t really like to take on anyone new. Okay. Unless I get to know them. Okay.

1:00:11 Because they’ve got to have issues. They’ve got to have issues. I don’t think that’s going to be any one boring. Nobody’s straight down the line. Yeah, you need someone with some issues, otherwise they don’t go hard.

1:00:22 Yeah, and not only that, but then they don’t relate to me. I don’t relate to them. I’ve got to respect people who’ve been through stuff. Because some people had this one girl who I try and do, who is born with a silver spoon in her mouth, massively. And she never has to work. I never has to worry about anything.

1:00:40 And she comes in the most crying all the time and having tantrums and he got to the stage, I was like, you know what? I can’t train you anymore. I said, I’ve got no respect for you whatsoever. You actually come in here crying about the fact that your boyfriend took you to go to my burger kitchen instead of some like lunch restaurant and this is your only issue in life. I can’t train you anymore.

1:01:03 London problem. You know, I’ve just been in this lecture for years. I’ve dated that girl before. Yeah, shit. So what does she say?

1:01:11 She starts, you can’t do that and she starts crying, I’m like, oh I really can’t, you know, I’ll find you love to. Then you gave her a left hook with the palm facing. I think I would have been sued on that one. Did she straighten up or? I dropped her, I don’t turn her any more, no, no way, I can’t, I just can’t deal with …

1:01:25 Yeah, fuck that bitch. If you’re coming and you’re having a breakdown, you know what I mean, about something real, then I’ll like, you know, fuck, no, she’ll break down about something, what the hell? If you’re a pansy with a silver spoon in your mouth, do not go to Cathy Brown’s Sorry, but anyone else can check her out there and Cathy. Thanks for coming on

1:01:53 All right, well until then it’s about the journey all right, thanks guys and they kicked our hearts Powerful people, whether it’s power, seduction, war, mastery, 50, they take a step back, they get angry in the moment like I do like 50 does, and they take a step back, and they go, oh wait a minute, maybe I’m the problem, maybe I caused this problem, or maybe…