Bruce Parry - Quest

Full transcript: Bruce Parry on London Real

0:00 This week on London Real, Bruce Parry of the BBC series, Tribe. riddled with my own problems, my own insecurities, my own trauma, my own ego, that’s getting in the way, so I’m going through my own healing as I go. London Real presents Bruce Parry, Quest. When you try it, something really special happens, and magic comes back. Welcome back to London Real.

1:03 I am Brian Rose at one of London’s most historic monuments, known as the Tower Bridge. Yes, I am here. The gates have just opened. It’s pretty exciting stuff. I’ve got the London skyline behind me.

1:20 We’ve got the Walkie Talkie here. We’ve got the Cheese Grater here, and of course the Gherkin behind me. We are on Tower Bridge. be rolling through the gates just went up a few minutes ago so it’s quite tourist-central here. This week on the show we have Mr. Bruce Parry another icon in London much like this bridge and you might remember Bruce from the BBC documentary tribe when he first hit the scene some eight years ago and you saw Bruce going to Africa and hanging out with a lot of the locals and doing a lot of things they did. He went on to do something called Amazon and then Arctic which were other shows that he produced and for the last two years he’s been making a documentary called Quest which is basically documenting his own quest and his own life and it was fascinating to sit down with him for an hour and a half about a week ago and hear about what’s been going on in his life and and how he’s been trying to find himself and define himself in kind of a different way of looking at the people that he used to cover. He used to go look at the tribes and point out the things about them that was interesting but he never used to kind of think the way they did and be part of the land and be part of his own consciousness the way that he thinks that they do and that’s what this new movie is all about.

2:49 He had just come back into London, hadn’t had a mobile in a while, hadn’t even wore shoes in a while and it was great to get Bruce’s perspective on his life and I can’t wait to see this movie. I know he was meeting with Damien Hirst a few days later who had donated a bunch of pieces of art in order to finance the movie and that should be coming out maybe in about a year and it was just a real pleasure to have him on. I mean let’s be honest, this guy was drinking ayahuasca back in the day before we ever tried that on London Real and so you know just to sit down with Bruce was fantastic we had Timothy Sheef on there the free runner and those two got on like a house on fire as usual so it was a special moment and I really think you’ll enjoy this episode of London Real

4:15 it’s been a crazy week as usual at London Real we’ve got next week MI5 agent Annie Michon who turned whistleblower about seven years ago maybe even ten years ago and exposed a lot of things going on here in British intelligence that she didn’t like and she’s very well spoken. She’s going to be in Adam Skorgy’s new movie called The Culture High and it was fantastic having her here. She had a lot of insights. She said once Edward Snowden hit, her phone was ringing off the hook because she was someone that had been talking about basically protecting our information and being conscious of you know who’s watching everything you send and our right to privacy and I do think it’s a fundamental right. So she’ll be coming up next week. I think you’ll enjoy her a a lot. Behind me we have, sorry, the mayor of London’s office and behind that we’ve got the shard, tallest structure in Western Europe and just always liking to give you a little geography lesson here in London. Walking out the end of Tower Bridge, sometimes called London Bridge, I think an American bought this one time thinking he was getting this bridge, but he got the nasty looking one instead.

6:36 And that’s it. I’m now on the South Bank which is where Shakespeare’s old globe theater used to be because they used to keep all the nonsense on the South and all the vice and all the good stuff there on the North where the walled city of London was. But I’m going to sign out. As you know, we’re on Twitter.

7:00 We’re on Facebook. any suggestions for guests, just keep them coming. And if you want to help out, I’m at brianatlondonreal.tv. We’ve got some more exciting things coming up, so that’s it. That’s me signing off, and now I leave you with a really fascinating insight into the brain of a guy that really pushed television and documenting style past its limits back in the day.

7:24 He really broke new ground, and he’s a fascinating individual, and I can’t wait to see his new movie Quest. And now I leave you Mr. Bruce Parry. This is London Real, I am Brian Rose,

8:19 You’re always open to everything, right? I know, but I tried raw goat’s milk recently in Pennsylvania with some Amish goat’s I want to try and do stuff, I’m trying to be raw, and I know the goat was probably looked after by the armish pretty well, so I tried it. All right, so you’re game. Yeah, I’m game. You’re open.

8:33 All right. I don’t know about experiences. Yeah. And no one’s cost, that’s it. All right, so you’re a vegan that will experiment a little bit?

8:38 Yeah. Okay. All right, cool. Well, you can get Bulletproof at Xbrain, or you can go to upgradedself.com in the U.S. and pick that up.

8:45 I just want to say thanks to Dave Asprey, the Bulletproof Executive. Now on to the show. My co-host today is award-winning freerunner, Timothy Sheef, who hosts The Flow Show on YouTube, most recently reporting from a hot tub in Santorini. Yes. I mean, really.

9:02 I’ve got a pretty blessed life. I mean, you were hanging out in the hot tub and doing your show and, yeah, you look pretty chill. I was pretty chill. But I mean, seriously. High on life, yeah.

9:11 Yeah, you were very relaxed. You would have seen Timothy on MTV. He does videos with the famous stuntman, Damian Walters. You’re doing rugby commercials for O2. Top Gear.

9:20 Top Gear, Jamie Oliver, you’re more famous than Bruce and I combined probably. Definitely not. I don’t know. You also have these great videos called Life in a Handstand. You should check them out.

9:31 It’s like Life in a Handstand. And the latest one, Love in a Handstand. You saw that. I’m feeling that. Oh, thank you.

9:37 Yeah, there’s a female handstander involved. I went on a date, yeah. Oh, yeah, on a handstand. So anyways, thanks for being here. It’s been too long, dude.

9:43 Thank you. And what an episode to invite me to. I know, right? This is how fate works, right? Do you always get like the top people? I’m just rolling with life. It works out man. This guy’s been my hair I want to be you I want to be you These opportunities anyways our guest today is mr. Bruce Parry who is an award-winning?

10:01 Documentarian author indigenous rights advocate explorer and Former Royal Marines commando officer. You will definitely know him from his BBC documentary work on his various series including tribe Amazon Arctic where you completely immerse yourself in these indigenous cultures. You eat their food, you drink their dodgy water, you even experiment with some of their psychedelics like one of the original guys doing that. For the past year you’ve been filming the documentary called Quest which I think is quite literally that, your quest. Exactly that. And I think it’s suspiciously therapeutic in nature which is much like London Real. This is like therapy that I do every week for myself. You guys just have to watch. I’m a completely different person in the last two years just from doing this. So I’m going to ask you about that. But it’s just a real honor having you. Welcome to Linda Ray.

10:51 Thank you so much. Nice to meet you both. Absolutely an honor man. Tribe is one of the best things the BBC has ever done. And you’re the main head of that.

10:59 Like the commitment to, no, honestly the immersionism and the open-mindedness it took to do that. And like six, seven years ago as well, man. Like I show that to a lot of people at home, I bang it on, yeah. Wow, that’s really sweet, thank you. No problem.

11:14 Yeah, well, what a privilege, can you imagine? I mean, to be able to go around the world and meet those extraordinary people. Yeah. How that might affect your life, you know, to see our world through the prism of all these different things. But not just to see it, you, like, you immerse yourself.

11:26 Like, there’s a one crocodile episode where you’re hunting crocodiles at night. I looked, like, that boat was tiny, you could’ve just fallen out. Was that scary? Yeah, but, you know, all of these times, you’re with the experts. You’re with the experts.

11:40 They hold your hand and you’re like, well, they wouldn’t be doing it unless, I mean, you have to kind of believe it. So you just trust. You trust. And you’re asking the environment. But they also, they exude their, you know, they want to look after you.

11:54 They just exude that. And they wouldn’t take you into a place that is gonna really be detrimental or dangerous. So, you know, I just trust. Takes a lot of faith. A lot of faith.

12:03 But if you imagine I, you know, one of those guys came to the city, they’d be terrified. You just hold their hand, cross the road. you come with the look, wait till light goes green, you cross the road and da da da. That’s true. And that’s all it is.

12:12 It’s like, I’m in their environment. They’ll look after me. It looks like shit everywhere, but actually. You look at the body language of some of these people, like I was watching, like I watched that episode. I watched the famous cattle jumping episode you were in, but like you can tell these guys are, they’re, they’re really looking out for you, you know, and you were saying you didn’t learn the language of these tribes, but you’re saying just eating with them, helping out to carry something or whatever you said just bonded you.

12:37 Yeah, I the times that I connect the strongest of when there’s no interpreter and it’s just me and them and we’re doing something You know if I have to talk abstract things then we need an interpreter But if I’m out chopping a tree down or going hunting or whatever then me and the other person Then we really connect because I’m just you know, you’re doing stuff and that makes it language causes problems in the world. Basically That would be a lot more… That’s like a lesson to us all, because especially guys, when you bond with guys, I think they want to see what you’re made of, go, who’s this funny looking white dude in my country?

13:13 And once they see, you can take what they dish out and you can pitch in and they’re like, oh, he’s cool. And you’re willing to serve as well. You go in there with the attitude, how can I help you guys? We just go in as a person who just wants to be a nice guest. It’s like you’re looking around, the mother’s going to go and get the water, it’s like what am I going to do?

13:33 Sit here and wait until she gets back with the water, no, I’ll go and give her a hand. And it’s as simple as that. It really is as simple as that. I’ve got nothing else to do other than be a good guest. Do you think we’d do that if we didn’t have phones to look on Facebook these days?

13:44 Because I really think that’s a big issue and a problem is that we’ll be with someone and there’ll be a minute when nothing’s happening so we’ll go to our phone instead of taking the opportunity to either come up with the next thing you’re going to do or help them with the task they’re doing. If they’re washing the pots, you might just sit there, instead of helping them wash the pots. Exactly like that, I think. I can’t stand that. We’re really lost right now.

14:02 If I’m with someone and they’re on their phone, like, I lose it, I just, I want to walk away. I got rid of my phone, which is a privilege. I mean, I know it’s very hard to have a phone. You mean, or to get rid of one? Well, no, so to get rid of it is a privilege.

14:14 Oh, really? Well, to have one in the first place. Yeah, okay. Because I was able to. Yeah.

14:19 Some people were to privilege to have it. I was hoping you’d mean that way. That’s cool. Yeah, well, both of them are. I don’t have friends, obviously it’s a privilege of them, but it’s a greater privilege to be able to be in a position to let go of it, and it was just such a release.

14:29 It’s beautiful. I mean, the production company keep trying to give me new ones, because they can’t find me ever, but that’s my, yeah, it’s really beautiful. You’re okay, you’ve normalized without it. Yeah, of course you miss out on some stuff. You know, there are moments, I’ve just come back to the UK, I’ve been away for six months, and I kind of quite like to connect with a few people and I’m like, ah, I can’t, you know, so I’ve got a tablet, I’m using an iPad now a bit more than I would normally, but it’s, yeah, I look forward to a time in the future where I’m gonna be using that social media less and being in a community more, and I think that’s kind of where my direction’s going.

15:05 I catch myself doing that sometimes when I’m alone, and then I’m constantly, okay, how am I gonna entertain myself with my electronic device? And I’m like, what are you doing? Like, try to slow it down, but it’s so hard. And then our lady, you come off Facebook, and you’re like, I don’t feel great about that. No, you don’t remember a single thing you’d learned or looked at and then it’s like, yeah.

15:25 And you could have been meditating or stretching or something, which would have taken a little effort to begin, but once you started it, you would get a lot more reward from it. But I found that I did have that sort of personality that was just sitting back and watching TV, just looking at channels. I think we all have that. So I just got the best thing for me, get rid of the TV. Then I was like on the phone too much, you know, I would be one of those people who would be checking out.

15:47 It’s like, what am I doing? is like not making me happy. Get rid. I’m not very good at actually finding the middle path. Self-discipline.

15:57 I mean, I will be able to bring it back at some stage, I’m sure, but for me to go cold turkey is the only way to really properly start. Good, I’m going to do that, I think. When people come up like Tim just did and say, I remember you from Tribe and all that stuff, do you kind of want to move on from that or are you happy to be recognized for that? I’ve been away for six months and I’ve just come back to London and I completely forget that some people actually know who I am and so I’m on the tube and people are smiling or winking or saying hello or I like your show and it’s the greatest joy. I mean imagine you’re just walking down the street and someone comes and says by the way I really like what you do and thank you and it’s like wow.

16:39 Your show was so pure that it’s only going to get the kind of nice people that will do that. You’re not going to get like the idiots that are on Geordie Shore who watch or something like that, no offense to them. But do you know what I mean? You’re not gonna get the viewers of that to come up and be like, oh, hey, it’s Bruce. I can’t really comment that.

16:54 All I know is that the reaction I do get is beautiful. And so for me, it’s like so humbling. And I walk away going, wow, I must be the luckiest guy. I mean, it just puts a spring in your step. It’s like, thank you, thank you to everything.

17:08 This is such a gift. And it’s not because I just suddenly feel better because some dudes come up and told me I’m great. It’s like, that’s just really nice to have that appreciation. People really know you. I dropped your name, and they’re like, yeah, yeah, I know that guy.

17:22 I think an image is so powerful. They remember an image of you with paint on your face or something. And it’s just something that, at the time, was really groundbreaking. And maybe it was. Maybe it’s still.

17:33 But something about your personality that became a friend was that, yeah, you are really well known. And we’ve had famous people on the show, when I mention your name, people that are like, oh, yeah, I know him. Yeah, but I’ve been on the box for a while, you know, it’s been a few years Yeah, and you can really tell when it you’re when you’ve got something come that’s recently been out Obviously people know your name nowadays. It’s people like you’re you you work at so-and-so or you’re from Wigan or whatever It is that they’re trying to figure it out how they know they don’t actually know me at all other than on the television But it’s um, yeah, it’s a privilege. It’s a privilege I I’m very grateful for all the the positive things that have come from that So you part of ways with a BBC in 2010? Is that right? I hope I haven’t but my bridges Yeah, okay, although I sometimes wonder if If my departure the period of time that I’ve been away is because that’s three years ago It’s a while for three or four. Yeah, okay And I mean I’ve been trading emails with you for like I don’t know a year or something back and forth and like Bruce is Always like I’m off to Borneo for four months or and I’m like, who is this guy?

18:32 It’s not like he’s off for a few weeks to shoot up I didn’t know what that you were working on quest and I was like Jesus this guy’s really hardcore core because you’re like I’ll be gone for six months or I’ll be gone for this extended period. Yeah this trip I’ve been away, well I left on 21st December last year, 2012, like winter solstice. Exactly and what is it now? September, June, August, I don’t know. September, yeah, I don’t know. He didn’t know what day was when he was signing the release.

18:57 I’m not even meant to be here. Well I was supposed to be away till October, November. Okay well let’s talk a little bit about Quest. You’ve been filming it now for nine months, I think you got another six months or a year you’re going to film Um, I know that I know a few things about it and I’ll just drop them and you can tell me you what you were in Borneo, I know you went back to the Amazon. I think you had another ayahuasca experience I know this film is in part I think financed by Damien Hurst and some of his artworks that he’s donating to people who have helped produce it It’s and when I hear about everything you’re doing first of me thinks this is so long Why not a TV series and I was wondering if you could tell us what you’re doing and why is this a feature film and not a series?

19:40 Thank you. Yeah, I don’t know where you got all that info from but that’s that’s really good Yeah, we’ve it’s not a TV series because what we’re talking about is is it’s kind of relatively deep and philosophical and complex and I think that it needs to be delivered in one chunk. It’s like we want people to come on the journey with me and it’s not the sort of thing you want to come back next week it’s like come come sit and suspend belief and come on that journey and we’re going to challenge perhaps some of our preconceptions and our perspectives and you know look at ourselves a little bit but we want to make that as comfortable and as non-threatening as possible but give someone an experience that perhaps they come out the other side going, well, thank you, I’ve had a sensation, I’ve also had an understanding of what you’re saying and I’m going to go away and think about that and maybe think about myself, think about society and I think that if we split that into chunks, we wouldn’t be able to get that same sensory experience that we’re hoping to get in one hit.

20:52 Okay. It’s like a pill. It’s like a pill. Everyone likes watching documentaries now with Netflix and things like that. It’s really cool.

21:00 You can just sit down and bang on a documentary and then you’re fully immersed in this one story. Plus you’re going through a different message that you’re saying the television network wouldn’t necessarily even want to play this. No, I think that there’s a possibility. Not that we’re challenging or threatening overtly television networks. It’s more that, yeah, it’s philosophical, and it’s kind of, it is talking about society, and it is questioning the institution and the status quo to some degree.

21:27 So that might not be something that necessarily wants to be on the normal networks. But it’s not aggressive, it’s all full of love, and it’s just asking us to try on a new perspective, to try on a new way of looking at ourselves and our world. And so what do you do? You go into different countries, going to the like the source of problems you think or like well yeah we’re going all over the place is it part of a narrative or are you discovering this as you go along we’re we’re we’re realizing that the reason that people haven’t tried to make a film like this before is for a very good reason it’s like nearly impossible we’re filming the invisible we’re sort of asking the impossible to answer. It’s we’ve tackled something really very big and deep and in a way it’s is my own personal journey too. I’m going back to some of the indigenous groups that I’ve lived with to take a slightly deeper look you know the work that I did before was about how people behaved and what they did. It’s kind of like us from the outside kind of looking at them you know we’d ask some questions what they’re up to but it was always about that not really about how they felt and how they experience life and what they thought of us and how they perceive reality and you know their spiritual life and all that. I mean we pay lip service to it but I’m thinking that actually within some of these indigenous groups there’s some really special perspectives of life and

23:00 Truths you think? Yeah that perhaps that offer us an insight, offer us an insight into to maybe something that we overlook in our society, some disconnection that we have, some just other ways of being in the world that might be of use, you know, because we’re homogenizing the whole world. Everyone’s coming out now and watching TV and drinking Coke and it takes no time for an indigenous group to suddenly turn its back on its old ways and be a part of our society.

23:29 It’s so prevalent and strong. You noticed that was in some of the documentaries. Some of the younger people move more to the west towns and they start watching MTV and they don’t want to come home to the parents and the parents are upset. But you have to lose yourself to find yourself. So I think that’s what we’re doing right now.

23:43 We’re in the stage of the world is losing ourselves before we find it again looking to the things you’re doing, I guess, helping. Yeah, I totally agree. And can I quote you, can I read something that you said? You said there were moments when I genuinely felt part of something else, something bigger connected to the trees, the mountains and the people. I don’t know if you were describing something that you experienced on tribe or one of your other adventures, but it sounds like you’re trying to find this indescribable, I don’t know, oneness.

24:13 Well, yeah, when you look at the commonalities of what a number of the indigenous groups think, and also what we’re hearing from the East, and these notions of an interconnected universe, even that some of our astrophysics is talking about, and we look at evolutionary biology or neurology and all these areas of science, actually, there does seem to be an emerging picture. I know your program has talked about this very thing a number of times. It’s like we see everything as disconnected, whereas a lot of the rest of the world sees us as intrinsically connected, not only physically, but also through our mental states.

24:51 And although that seems so hard to understand, when you actually try and engage with that, When you try and feel it, when you try and look at the world through those eyes, something very interesting happens. Magic comes back. Healing comes back. Sensations come back that perhaps we had lost or overlooked. And I just think that’s a really interesting way of exploring, because in my previous career, I was an explorer, but I always maintained the prism of my own scientific background.

25:27 I never really, really gave credence to some of the views that I was listening to. People would talk about all of this stuff, and I would just go, yeah, and I’d be like, yeah, I don’t believe that. And that was also how people related to it, because they’re like, I’m like Bruce, and I’m watching, I believe in my world, and I’m observing these people from him. And so I maintained a very materialistic scientific perspective. Yeah, in the physical world.

25:57 Yeah, everything has to be measured. If it can’t be measured, then it’s not true. Left-brained. Yeah, it’s just like, well, what does that mean? So you are kind of a scientist by nature.

26:04 This is kind of against you. Well, I think I was from our paradigm, you know. Our perspective of the world is very much measurement, materialistic measurement, if it’s not. But this can be measured. That’s what it started to discover.

26:16 It’s only in your own life that you can only really observe it with yourself because you can’t really prove it to anyone. But you can, like you said, one of the tribes believes in the power of thought and how dangerous or powerful that is. And I noticed that in my own life. And everyone’s talking about positive mental attitude now and things like that, and everyone knows the power of it. But it can only be measured in your own life.

26:34 You can’t write it down and show someone else what your results are. And that’s, again, that’s almost what the power of God is. It can’t be proven to anyone. This connection has to just be felt by yourself. And so you’re doing, I guess, quest is like trying to document it in some way over a…

26:49 Thought you know I’ve been talking forever about being one of the tribe and like you know and not trying to see the world through their eyes but actually I never really was looking at the world through their eyes I was always actually I was doing their things but I was never really looking at it through their eyes I always held back I didn’t believe some of the things that they were saying I looked at it from my own what I considered to be rational perspective but what I’ve realized is that rationality is much bigger there is rational explanation out there to explain interconnection. It’s a rationing, it can be kind of shown to some degree. It’s a lot of Rupert Sheldrick’s work.

27:22 Yeah and it might not be measured in the same way but there are other ways of measuring and there are other ways of finding evidence or proof you know we think of it only in certain terms but actually there’s a whole wealth of stuff going on out there and also when you start perceiving or when you start believing or thinking slightly differently then actually other things happen that can only become apparent when you make that switch. Synchronicities and things like that. Yeah, it’s like, you know, you, if you start believing perhaps that your thoughts are affecting the world beyond you.

27:54 I mean, we know that our thoughts can affect our own bodies, but if you begin to think your thoughts can affect things beyond you, there’s something very strange happens. Now, some neurologists will say, yeah, that’s fine, and others will say, well, that’s is just a form of, I don’t know, some sort of delusion, you’re applying some part of your brain to other things and it’s not real. But when you try it, something really special happens and magic comes back.

28:19 And that’s how a lot of these indigenous groups are seeing the world. And people in the East and all sorts of other cultures and it’s like, okay, I can’t prove one way or the other but that feels great. Suddenly the world’s alive again and there’s gifts and there’s joy and there’s meaning and everything has texture well beyond this sort of like delineated box-like world that we’ve created. So is that what this movie is about? No.

28:46 Okay. So that sounds like a tough movie to make. Did you notice it? No, it’s a, sorry, Brad, I was being a bit facetious. It might be a little bit about that, but I’m just going on this journey and I’m being followed by a crew and I’m struggling to know what the film’s about.

29:02 I’m just going to visit these extraordinary people who really see the world in a different way, and really trying to engage with them in a way that I’ve never done before, and just go, OK, I’m really going to try and listen, really going to try and feel. And realizing as I do that, that I’m riddled with my own problems, my own insecurities, my own traumas, my own ego, that’s getting in the way. So I’m going through my own healing as I go in order to be able to try and be still, be centered, be present.

29:32 So that I can understand what these other people are saying. And it’s mind blowing. How did you come up with this idea? I mean, you had some time off. Were you going a little stir crazy?

29:42 I mean, it sounds like even to someone making this film, they’re probably backing Bruce because they know you create great things. But I mean, did you point when you’re in Ibiza and you’re like, I’m going to do this? Or was it? I think that I realized that I’d become very addicted to a number of things. And I needed to overcome that.

30:04 So for example, I’d been sent around the world to live with all these indigenous groups, with all the new stimulation of all of the different people and different way of looking at the world, and all the colors, and the jungles, and the deserts. And then I’d come back to Ibiza, entertaining, meeting 20 people at the end. Just very, very rapid life of stimulation, stimulation, stimulation. Then I went to Greenland to do a show. And it was white as far as I could see.

30:28 And I went cold turkey. I realized that I was going crazy, because I couldn’t be with myself. And there was no simulations just why it wasn’t even a mountain, or a hill, or a bird, or a foliage, or anything. And I realized that this was a problem. And so after I finished Tribe, and then I did Amazon, I took a couple years out and made myself sit still in my home, and did a winter in Ibiza, and go cold turkey on my stimulated life.

30:53 And then during that process, I learned to meditate. I went and did ayahuasca again. And a number of these things started coming out. And when I had done, for example, Iboga or ayahuasca during my tribal trip, I had these sensations of connection and bliss and spiritual moments. I’d come back and talk to my friends, and they’d go, oh, you were just doing a drug trip.

31:13 So I’d stick it in a box and forget about it. But then during this time off, of course, all of those experiences that I’d had suddenly started coming to the surface. It’s like, oh my god, that makes sense, and that makes sense, and that makes sense. suppressed them all, but I allowed myself some space. And all of these perspectives, and these indigenous groups, and these amazing experiences suddenly came to the surface.

31:36 And I kind of realized that there was so much more that I hadn’t really covered during my programs and during my time. And actually, through that was also this amazing healing that I was getting. And it was like, wow, this is so beneficial for me in my life. Yes, I’m privileged. I can take time off and be in Ibiza for the winter.

31:58 But actually, this is really beneficial for me. And maybe this could be something that I could share. And then I realized that that thing, film, book, whatever it was that I might do is now I’m looking for the holy grail. This is so difficult to tell, to show. And also, is it my job to tell or show anyone?

32:18 It’s like you soon realize that actually, these things, you’re tackling now at the very heart of humanity. and now you’re talking spirituality or talking about human nature, it’s like you start broaching those subjects with people and people get very defensive. And so even though I was having this extraordinarily beautiful harmonious healing, it was giving me such wonderful enhancement to my life. Anytime I mentioned it, it was sort of a bit evangelical, and then you’re like, oh no.

32:51 So you were guilty of that, of being a little bit… But you’re never saddened at that point that it’s only you feeling it and then you realize to be happy you want other people to be happy around you. You want them to feel it and I guess that’s why you’re on this quest now to make this is because you want to spread that, you’ve discovered how you can feel and you want to share that with the world. And there are people that are on this journey and you might give them the next step that they need to take.

33:15 So it’s definitely a positive thing, like you said, you’re not sure whether is it your job to tell these people this, but you will inspire so many people that want to hear it, that have always felt this way themselves, but no one has ever said it, they can look through your window, through this piece and be like, that’s what, I’ve been seeing that, but I never knew I was allowed to see that all along, you know, they’ve just switched it off and you’re open to open that for them. That’s really sweet of you. Well, you know, it’s proving to be a difficult task because there is a bit of me that wants to kind of rattle a cage and go, you know, and of course that is the wrong energy.

33:48 And so I just need to be the change and try and hope that whatever I can try and be in my own journey can emanate in some way. But of course we forget that I have the indigenous people, you know, and it’s not about using them because of course that would be wrong, but it’s about being with them and sharing them and asking their advice and seeing if in some way we can learn from just their way away. Well they must be happier than most people in London or England.

34:14 You must notice that these people live this way and they’re incredibly happier and more secure than most people in the Western world, so there must be something we can learn from them as much as you want to shun their lifestyle, there must be so much we can learn from them. I tend to agree, but it’s like you end up getting really bogged down in very difficult territory because we’re projecting, are they happy when they have child mortality rates, when they have all this? For us to just say those things, which in fact is within me, I do feel that there There is something about them that is very, very, very beautiful that we could learn.

34:49 But at the same time, we have to remember as well that they’re humans, and they have lots of problems, and they have their own history. And all our projections are very dangerous. But at the same time, I do get people coming up to me all the time. My kids are surrounded by the most expensive toys. I buy them every week.

35:04 And then I watch your program. And there’s this child who’s got absolutely nothing, and he’s the happiest kid in the world. And they can’t figure it out. And so I’m like, well, actually, there is a reason. And I’ve kind of been studying this.

35:15 And I’d love to tell you, but how do I go about doing that? Yeah, you have to get the message right. Yes. Because it actually reminds me a little bit, maybe you could tell me if this is different, like the first time you try ayahuasca and you opened up to all this realm of emotions, you explore yourself. And a lot of people go out in the next few weeks and tell everybody that they should do it.

35:33 It will fix your problems, it will fix your problems, it will fix your problems. And maybe that’s similar to the revelations you’ve had. And that’s the wrong way, because now you’re projecting kind of your own energy out. And as you live with that over time, then you realize that people will find that path as they will find it. It’s okay to talk about it, but then there’s a fine line between preaching and educating them.

35:53 Totally. And not alienating as well. I mean, it’s very easy for us to go on our privilege trips and then sort of turn your back a little bit on the place that you were before, and you make it your shadow because it’s like, actually, I’m a bit ashamed of the fact that it used to be this party drug painting, whatever, and you turn your back on it because you need to move away from it. You’re shunning all those people, and that’s part of your audience. It’s part of, you know, they’re the ones you need to talk to, but by the mere fact that you kind of have moved away, it alienates.

36:21 And so all of these very, very difficult things to get right when we’re being seen on our journeys and to try and get the language right, to get the energy right is a very difficult thing. How’s it going? Not, you know, it’s having its problems. It should be a struggle. It’s like Apocalypse Now, if you look at the making of that movie, it was just a struggle for like years and years, and Coppola didn’t know how he was going to finish it, and Brando showed up all big and fat, and he’s like, I don’t know how I’m going to fill in this movie, and that made it beautiful, because it was a struggle.

36:53 Anything, any great thing comes from struggle. Thank you. Yeah, well, you know, I’m working with the most amazing team, and also it’s really interesting that we’re seeing that the differences between us and the team, we all have the same vision, which is brilliant, but we do see things differently, and we do receive information differently. and some of us is all showing, not telling me, is all like telling, not showing, and trying to merge those different methodologies into the creative process is really exciting.

37:19 You have a tendency probably to constantly narrate because that’s your background, because you were the only voice when you’re in tribe. You’re like, I have to tell these people what’s going on because we could only see someone. But also, I’m the sort of guy like reading textbooks. I will watch documentaries, and other people prefer to get their information from a story. Others prefer to just feel it through watching imagery.

37:38 Some people can go and sit in front of a Rothko and cry. I look at this with a bunch of paint on the wall. I don’t feel it in the same way and we’re all receiving information very differently and yet to try and merge all of those into one creative media output is not easy. But if we can do that, that’d be really special. Okay, so this should be out next year, hopefully.

38:03 Or is there an ending? What year is it? 2013. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, who knows, next year.

38:07 OK, but you’ve got people that believe in you and will help you finance it, and people like Damien Erz that are happy to help you. Yeah, and we’ve been so privileged to have had a really nice patronage from some very special people who’ve helped us out and saw something in it. And your name doesn’t hurt. I mean, nobody else could probably do what you’re doing. I mean, you have a reputation of bringing quality work, of going out and investigating them.

38:33 People want to hear it. Well, keep that going, because if they Kevin saw what’s happening and was like, no, it’s awful, no, it’s, it’s proving hard. This one’s proving tough. Do you notice that there’s people in like South America and people in like China and these tribes and their beliefs are very similar even though they’ve never met, but they’re connected to Mother Earth and they have, they’ll call their gods by different names and things, but is there a very similar way of lifestyle?

39:02 Of life, not so much, but definitely there is real commonalities between so many of these spiritual practices. They really are. And I know lots of theories about that too. And I think that that sense of oneness, that sense of connection, that sense of non-dual state is very strong in many cultures. And I think it’s probably, there’s a distinct possibility that that’s what we all felt at some time, that when you go on mushrooms and you see everything alive and all that, that could be the reality that is real.

39:41 And it’s actually only as a result of us separating ourselves and through agriculture and worrying about the future and not being present and through energies flowing and our egos that taking up all of this energy or all these other things that is reducing the filter so that actually what we end up seeing is a much less rich world. that the other world when you do ayahuasca or ibogo or if you meditate or if you’re doing yoga when you’re more in your body and more in the present than you feel that sense, maybe that is something that we always used to feel. Who knows? I mean, none of us can say here and now.

40:16 I believe it. Or we can feel and we’re discovering we’ve headed that direction. We’ve just got a few hurdles on the way. Why did you go back and make ayahuasca part of this film? I mean, it’s something you did in the past for for television but why why was this important because in my life it’s been huge you know I think that probably meditation and ayahuasca have been some of my greatest healing methodologies if you will I mean yoga would be too but I haven’t I really don’t practice it enough but yeah I what’s your history with ayahuasca how many ceremonies or when or I’m as regular as possible. Okay. Yeah. The first time you did it was television television. Thanks very much. When oh, oh, seven or you Bogle was oh, six, I think I don’t even know. Okay, so many years ago. Yeah.

41:03 Well, but that was for the show. But then you realized you’ve got a lot of spirits. Yeah. And like, you know, the director at the time was like, Bruce, we can’t put all of the things you’re waxing lyrical about this, you know, we, we, we’re gonna, you know, we can’t put it all in, you know, but yeah, for me, that was a beautifully profound healing process. And, and then since then I’ve done it many times. I go to Colombia, I was just there recently and I’ve done it in other parts of the world and every time it’s beautiful. I mean I’m always aware of the set and setting and you know in the right state of mind, in the right process beforehand and in the right practitioner, in environment, all those things. Are you fearful ever still? Yeah, Yeah, I mean I think every time is different, I’m much more in harmony with the process these days, but I have to be careful not to be too…

41:55 Complacent. Yeah, exactly. Because then you get a slapping. Yeah, you always, I always tell people if you’re not scared when you’re going to an ayahuasca ceremony, I tell people you should be. And yeah, it’s those times where you get complacent where mother ayahuasca whacks shit in the head and he introduces some new frames of mind to you, but I think it’s just kind of natural to be a little timid.

42:18 I think the more you do it, you do become a little more experienced. I know this is going to happen, but we need to talk about that with you. I know it’s something that Graham Hancock goes every year religiously, and when he was here we said, Graham, my co-host said, Graham, you’ve obviously got everything together in your life. You’re writing books and everything, and Graham’s like, I go back every year because none of of us ever have it all together. We always need a reminder of.

42:42 I’ve done it probably 20 times in the last few months. Wow. And it was an important part to make this part of the movie for you. Actually, what ended up happening is as a practitioner that I go to in Columbia, who I adore, who’s a very, very important man in my life. He’s a very great mentor.

43:00 I wanted to go to him, but we ended up taking my brother and an ex-girlfriend and some other friends of the crew. And we all went out as a group. And so I had my own experience, and then it was also nice to have a family member and old friends also have their experiences, which was very new for them. They had no concept of what was coming. And in every instance, it was great.

43:25 My ex-girlfriend had this extraordinary, beautiful connection with the divine, which was very important for her. My ex-brother had some answers. For me, I went back into the womb. In fact, I saw my mum this weekend, this was like a few months later, and I was like, when I was back in the womb in the IRS experience, I realised that I had been kind of, I had this really big problem being strangled during birth, I felt, and like that had been this quite strong energy within me that had given me like this fear that had been sort of influenced a lot of my behaviour since, in quite a negative way.

44:02 From that one moment, and you asked your mum about it, and it was true, yeah. And actually, it was a really, really strong thing that I wasn’t able to hold my breath. I would have a panic attack and stuff. I tried to do free diving recently, and even just putting my head under the water for like 20 seconds, and I was panicking. Everyone else was like a minute or two.

44:22 And it’s been a very strong thing within me. And I spoke to my mom just the other day, and she was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, didn’t I tell you? When you were born, the umbilicus was around your neck, and I had to stop contracting, and they They had to come in and cut it because we were really worried about you. I was like, did you tell me that before? She goes, no, I don’t think so.

44:40 But that was my ousca. It was truly strong. But the most amazing thing isn’t just that that story corroborates, and it’s so beautiful, but me releasing that very, very real energy. I mean, I was really concentrating and meditating in the pit of my stomach, and I can feel it. It was very hard to keep my attention there.

44:59 It was really painful. But I could just about, and then every time I managed to get my attention in that place, then it would shift, it would shift, it would shift, and finally it came out. And then ever since that moment, I’ve realized that those times that I’ve kind of been threatened, where normally I would be defensive in an argument when someone’s talking about something I believed in, then I would be a little bit aggressive or a little bit overly energetic, it’s gone.

45:23 I can sit there now and hear people saying all sorts of stuff, whereas previously, I would be jumping out of myself and find this little voice in the middle of the room, going, yep, yep, and everyone ended up being quiet. And I go, oh, God, that was me, wasn’t it? And now that is gone. I’m like, wow, that was that. And that’s been there that whole time.

45:40 And that, I have to thank it, it’s given me a great gift and I’m grateful for that, but I had to let it go. It’s like, I don’t need that anymore and I feel so much more at peace. It’s wild listening to you. I had a similar experience. My second ayahuasca experience was really big.

45:55 I actually was right on that sofa behind you about a year ago and yeah, I went back to the seven year old Brian Rose and my parents divorced when I was young I just like built up all these barriers around me and I went right back to that seven-year-old kid and I was just like Jesus Christ you built up all these barriers your whole life so no one can hurt you again and like I just made a lot of peace with that stuff and it’s interesting do you think there’s a finite number of of those adventures where you can go deep I mean you can’t go much further than the womb do you think there’s a finite number of ayahuasca experiences where you dig down deep I think that that’s a good question you know you love programming you’ve got to go through it all back yeah and I don’t know if it’s I think that happened to be a big thing and so that was one that came up, you know, but I think there was always another layer.

46:37 Whether or not I don’t feel that I have to keep going because it’s part of my, you know, life ritual. I go when I’m called, you know, I definitely have felt that I had some stuff to deal with. But that will dissipate in time and there’s some times, I mean, I get offered it a fair bit, I’m in the right circles and I’m often saying, no, actually, no, I don’t feel like it right now. And so when you go in, it’s calling you. And I think that will slow down.

47:05 Do you find a lot of your viewers turn off when you start talking about psychedelics? I watched an interview with you when you were up in Scotland or something, and you were saying, well, you’ve been living in Ibiza. They’re very distinct things, whether it’s a proper set-in setting for a psychedelic experience, whether it be ayahuasca or psilocybin, versus dropping ecstasy at a club. Although, I hate to be the guy that tells you how to consume or be sovereign over your own body, as Graham would say.

47:32 But do you find yourself explaining that to people? My living in Ibiza doesn’t help my reputation when it comes to talking about these sorts of things because of the reputation that Ibiza has. That’s tourists in Ibiza, the people that live in Ibiza. Very true. But let’s face it, a lot of people quite rightly only know the reputation.

47:53 And the reputation is just party, party, unconscious, drug taking, whatever. And you know, I know that world too. And I know how to separate, but right now, I mean, like for the last four years, I have been very much on a, you know, I was on a theater of no sex, drugs, alcohol or anything, pretty much for the last four years. I mean, I’m not fully there at the moment, I’ve come off it, but at the same time, that was very much part of my journey. That’s quite a super, no sex, drugs, alcohol for like periods of years.

48:24 Yeah. That’s amazing. Yeah, yeah. up and 10 would do it was it was again it was another one of the most beautiful lessons of my life you know so many of these things which you think are natural and then you realize when you stop it actually how controlling it was of you you know it was controlling your every being and it wasn’t natural it was an addiction and yeah just think there’s so much more riddled with these things we are well the seven sins basically goes there’s number for a reason yeah it’s The gluttony, the sex, the lust is the problem, not more than the sex, but that is what it leads to every time.

48:58 It’s interesting, because when you talk about your abstinence, it’s like people can say, oh, no drugs, no alcohol, that’s fine, but when you say sex, everyone probably is like, what? Totally. That’s the one. It’s really hard to explain, because it was asked of me by this group of people that I wanted to go and visit, and they just said- It’s a tribe in Colombia. That’s right.

49:16 Okay. And they just said, you know, give up your addiction. Is that no masturbation as well? Well, I tried to, but that was like really, really difficult. And I wasn’t able to fully, I did my best at all of that.

49:32 And there were very long periods of time that I was pretty good, but the things slipped and what have you. So I’ve also been guilty of taking a lot of credit for doing it to a higher degree than I probably did. And I think I need to step away from that a little bit. No, but there’s still like your leading exploration there that other people should do. and I would completely back that.

49:52 It was an exploration. And for me, initially, I had no idea. And most of them were easy, but sex was very difficult. And also, it’s the question, why? Sex is natural.

50:02 Why would you want to give it up? But then, it’s natural in the physical world, though. But then beyond that, it’s like a- And in the Western world, we associate sex with so many other things. Well, what I realized was, of course, I just had a massive addiction to the female form. It was an objectification of females, rather than the loving, heart-based, resonant sort of connection that I later discovered.

50:22 But that took me over a year to actually move away from my loins and into my heart. And I had no idea that that’s what was going to happen. And even to this day, I still struggle with my objectification. And I come back to London, and it’s sex everywhere. It’s like, absolutely crazy.

50:38 I’m just pulling my hair out. But I have had periods of my life where I now realize the difference between what was driving me previously. And what I was able to finally find, which is this completely different sensation of connection, which fulfilled me in every sense, which wasn’t lustful, which was just loving and harmonious and not needy, was no need. It was real love. And it was like, wow, that’s what people talk about.

51:08 No idea this shit goes on in the world. And that was the gift. I would never have found that for myself. I was just on my normal road, like everyone else thinking, well, this is normal. going to do my thing, trying to be nice, trying to be a nice guy but absolutely missing the point for me on every turn.

51:26 Well I always see it as, say you’re on an aeroplane and there’s a kid behind you and he starts kicking the seat and it bugs you but for that kid his reality is just he’s in his seat, he’s been on his plane for hours and he wants to get out and move around so he’s kicking the seat, he’s not aware that he’s disrupting everyone on the plane and you’re in front of it. So as adults we’ve grown older, how many things do we do in our everyday life that that are like that kid in the chair, but we’re less aware of in maybe a more spiritual form, where we’re hurting if we have sex with women, and their emotions involved, and then you may hurt them or something. And there’s other things, obviously, with what we’re eating, with food, with agriculture, with every iPhone that we buy.

52:01 Are we still that kid in the chair kicking the guy in front, completely oblivious to how much harm and disruptive we’re causing to the whole planet? But it’s hard, man, you know, we’re grabbing your side, it’s tough. It’s like when you meditate for a while at first, you’re like, what am I doing? And then like a month later, two months, start notice, wait a second, I don’t do the some of the behaviors I used to do and I guess with abstaining from sex you’re probably like, wait a second, I’m a different person now, three months in, six months in. How much more energy do you have when you’re not checking everyone out walking down the shop? It’s like, wow, I can actually concentrate on something else, it’s just really amazing. Because it’s like a low-level chakra, it responds at a much faster frequency, so before your brain can think or anything, it’s like, boom, like it’s way more, it’s a hard, But yeah, it’s a much deeper connection into us in a nature connection, I guess, as well through the root shack.

52:49 Have you gone and visited this tribe or was it like a pre- was it a request they made that you have to kind of purify yourself before you go see them? You know, I only had that one sentence from them four years ago, and I haven’t actually met that guy since. So I’ve kind of been on my own journey of trying to figure things out, and yes, I have connected with them again since, and it’s, you know, we were about to film them recently and then there sadly was an accident so I’m not sure what’s going to happen next but we’re hoping that the right thing will happen and if that’s them wanting us to come in that would be great.

53:22 What are your next trips that you have planned that you need to kind of finish the movie or is it not like that? No, no, there’s definitely a number of indigenous groups that we really want to see. There’s two in the Amazon and one in Columbia and maybe one in Congo. have very special, all indigenous groups are special, all people are special, we know that, but there are certain aspects to their culture that I thought were very interesting that might help shed light on this thing that we’re trying to grapple with in the film, you know, this connection, this sense of spirit and all that. And so we’ve found some groups, but also that can allow us to see our potential as humans and all these things that we’re touching on.

54:11 But it’s, yeah, we don’t know if we’re going to get in. Some of these groups are very hard to visit, quite rightly, and we’ve been in contact with them all, and they know we’re interested, and that they mostly said yes, but we still have to go through processes to ensure that that’s done in the right way. It’s very difficult. And how is this process different than, say, an episode of a tribe? Do you go in with a completely different vibe?

54:33 You leave the cameras off for a while? Or how do you do that? Yeah, we’re actually this next two groups we’re seeing in Brazil, for example, the aim is that actually we’re making the film with them rather than about them. And so we’re going to go, and it’s more like I’m asking their advice for me. This is what we’re interested in talking about.

54:55 Can you help us translate? What do you think? And also, what do you think of us? Now, that’s not necessary. I don’t know how well that’s gonna work because it’s quite hard to have a view where you’re able to see both where their perspective of us is gonna resonate with us because it might be from, who knows what they’re gonna say?

55:18 But that’s our aim is to try and include the more in that process because I feel that these two groups that we’re gonna visit, they do know quite a lot about our world, and it’d be really nice, what do you think? Their opinion and why they continue to live the way they do. Yeah. What do they take from our world that’s good, and what do they see as dangerous? I was just with a group in Borneo, and they’re moving from nomadism to settlement and from hunter-gatherer to farming and that sort of very strong moment that we’ve all been through in our history, where we settled for the first time and started agriculture, thinking of the future, and all the things that go with it.

56:02 And also, they’re coming into the material world, as well. And so asking them, what do you think? And they’re like, well, we’ve chosen not to use money within our community. We see that if you start using money within the community, it kills it. Suddenly, you get this disparity of wealth.

56:19 It’s too powerful a substance, and it will kill so many. It’s stored energy, so it’s dangerous. It’s like we get to reduce things again and again and again. And that helps when that sort of breeds our addictions even more, whether it’s the coca leaf that’s chewed quite harmlessly down to the cocaine, which is really difficult, or the spirit that is from alcohol to a spirit. All of these things, when you synthesize it and take it to that next level, it becomes so much more potent.

56:47 And some of these indigenous groups can see that and go, well, actually, we don’t want to touch that, because it’s negative. It’s difficult to handle. We don’t know how to handle. We don’t want to handle it. And it plays to the worst aspects of us.

57:02 And that’s so wise. You go, well, you’re right. We have all these addictions in our society. We think of addiction, whether it’s sex, or love, or alcohol, or drugs. We’re like, that’s bad.

57:10 Cooked food is such a one that people don’t want to look at. They would never think cooked food is an addiction. But food is delivered, as it should be eaten, in my belief. I eat mostly raw fruit and vegetables as it comes. There’s no other being on this planet other than human race that cooks their food and they survive, they thrive, they’re very healthy.

57:29 And so again, we complicate things by trying to make these fancy dishes, and yes, they taste better, but are we addicted then to eating a fancy meal every time? Every time we want to eat something, we have to cook it and prepare it and make it. We can’t just enjoy a tomato or 10 tomatoes as one meal. The way maybe we would have in our history, like monkeys or something, we find a fig tree, we just eat figs until we’re full and then we move on. And we complicate things now by trying to make all these fancy dishes and we’re upset if we don’t get this variance of fruits and vegetables and meats on our plates, then we’re like, why don’t, you know, we can’t just eat one meal.

58:00 And so it’s another addiction that goes even deeper beyond drugs and alcohol and sex is, this food is a big problem. Yeah, well, you know, I was also going to add as well, yeah, you know, we named some of these addictions as socially difficult, but the really biggest addictions of all in our society, we don’t even think of as negative and addiction to power and greed, you know, they’re the things that are causing the real problems. look at the people, you know, people who are doing the least positive for the society are the ones who are the most successful and the ones who are doing the most for our society, you know, the teachers and the nurses who do the most get the less and the people with the addiction to greed who are just playing with the money. Do you think money’s a drug? I think that it all depends on your definition but I think that it’s it’s a substance that is, you know, It’s given too much power.

58:53 All I know is I live with some indigenous groups that share, and they see it as something to be very careful about. And I’ve lived with a number of groups now that when the money comes in, whereas previously, you’re in trouble. I’ll help you out. Now it’s like, well, in trouble, give us a bit of cash. And you could say, well, that’s got nothing to do with money.

59:15 That’s just human nature. But what they have identified is that that makes it easier. And not only that, the thing about money is that often, even if you’re not sharing, if you’re bartering or if you’re exchanging, I’ll look after my, I’ll be a reindeer herder and you’ll make saddles. Well then, you give me a reindeer and I’ll, you give me a saddle and I’ll give you a few reindeer. But that’s kind of an uneven mix, so it keeps our bond.

59:43 It’s like, I’m always kind of in debt to you and you’re always kind of in debt to me, so we have that human interaction. But as soon as you have money, it completely terminates it, and you and I can walk away. Which means that when we grow up in our society, it’s like, OK, if I only got more money, I can be completely independent. And that’s the goal. It’s like we all aspire to this place where we can all live in isolation, not isolation, but live independently.

1:00:06 And we think that that will make us happier. But of course, it doesn’t. What it makes is it means we don’t have to deal with each other. It’s actually good to deal with each other because that helps us to heal. It helps society.

1:00:18 It helps us. But when we get all this stuff that I don’t care. My milkman can come tomorrow. He could die in the next one. I don’t care.

1:00:26 It’s just, I’m doing the money. It doesn’t matter. I don’t have to deal with him. There’s no human interaction. And that’s another form of separation.

1:00:33 And all of these cuts in our human interaction, all of these separations that we’re having in our community, in ourselves, our separation from nature, money adds. It’s just one of those other things that allows it to become easier to separate, to separate, to separate. And that causes the hole within us, the trauma, not the trauma, but that sort of longing for something and so we fill it with an addiction. Right, a medication, yeah. Whatever, we just, we all choose our different addiction.

1:01:02 You know, it’s like, well, some will do this and some will do that and some will have power and it all depends a bit on our youth. But that thing that we’re missing, which is the love and contentment and community and when that’s not there, We just, we want something else to fill it, but you can never fill that hole. We had a guest on, his name was Charles Eisenstein, and he was talking about community, and he said, you can’t form community unless you need people.

1:01:27 And he had his example where he moved to Chicago, and he went to a suburb, and I moved recently to like Bells Ties Park, and I was like, all right, we’re gonna have a community. And you have people over for barbecues, and you hang out, and then they leave. And then, because you don’t really need them, they don’t need you, you don’t need them to look over your children, you don’t need them for bartering. And so ultimately, you can have this kind of fabricated community, an online community.

1:01:49 But if you don’t ultimately need each other back and forth, then, like you said, you kind of have this money, and I don’t need you anymore. He’s an amazing man, Charles. I mean, he’s an amazing man. And I’ve read a couple of his books, and I think he’s an extraordinary mind, and he’s a very influential writer. Gift economy is his, right?

1:02:06 Yeah, yeah, with a sacred economy. Sacred economy. Oh, yeah, that’s the book. And his other book. He’s quite young, right?

1:02:12 Yeah. He’s brilliant. He’s very, very good. But the other thing I think he articulates very well is not only that thing about money sort of terminating relationships, but also, as you say, in the community, we don’t rely on each other, but also we’re not creating together. And we’re all so used to being stimulated by these things that are created by other people.

1:02:33 So we all go and watch the football. We’re not actually playing football, we’re watching it. Or we all go and play the computer game. We didn’t create the computer game, we’re playing it together. Or Game of Thrones, we watch that.

1:02:41 Yeah, or whether it’s a TV series or whatever, We’re not actually creating. Or even if you just go and party, we’re not actually really, we’re not creating together. And so we’re just participating in someone else’s creation. And that means that, OK, so when I leave the party world, actually, I didn’t really have any strong bonds with any of those people at all. I’ll just get replaced by the next one, or the guys watching football.

1:03:04 Now, if I’m playing football, or if I’m playing in a band, or if I’m creating something, if I’m part of the creative process, then actually I’m a very intrinsic part of that, and I do have a real connection, and I’m in it. But if you’re just observing, like most of us are, like I definitely, I’d love to come home and just turn on the box and watch a film. But what I should, what I’d like to do, what I aspire to do in my life is actually sit with a buddy and play on a fiddle or something, and then that’s a much more joint creation, and I think that it builds a much stronger bond.

1:03:36 But we have such hard lives, we just come back and just sit back and go, all I want to do is watch the box. And I get it. But I think that adds to our separation. And I think that Charles describes that really beautifully in one of his books. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

1:03:51 Because you create a lot of things. Yeah, I love that. And it’s so much more power when you do it in groups as well. It’s all right to have one idea, but when you have other people with the same vision, like you and Quest, you have so much more strength than that. Someone wrote me a note the other day, and I wrote it in Italian and in English for some reason, but it said we’re each angels with one wing and when we’re together we can fly, you know?

1:04:11 So you have to work with other people. Yeah, nice. There’s so much more strength in numbers, you know? It’s like when you each have that same motive. But I was gonna ask, is there ever any vegetarian tribes you found?

1:04:22 There’s obviously a lot of vegetarianism in India, but as far as indigenous groups that I know, I know some indigenous groups that have very little protein in their diet, but that’s not out of choices because there isn’t much protein in the area, in New Guinea. There’s no medical term for protein deficiency, it’s a malnutrition before it gets to that stage. There are some interesting diseases that come about when there’s not much protein in the environment.

1:04:46 There’s one called Pig Bell, but it’s only when they end up eating then a pig, because they have so little protein in their diet, they eat locusts and bugs and grubs, but then when they get a big pig, there’s some parasites in it that they’re not used to and that can cause necrosis of the stomach, I think. How do they deal with the if they’re connected they feel this connected to everything around them with them killing animals and eating them They do they say prayers before and yeah, I think again. It’s really you know Every group is so different and so there is no there they or there Yeah, they’re all so different and we all you know there’s a bit of our sentimental hearts that love listening to the tales of of First Nations talking about not being able to eat money and how we’re going to destroy the planet.

1:05:33 And so much of that, I also have a similar romantic notion, even having lived with these groups. But they’re also very pragmatic. They’re also very much connected to the Earth. They’re very, very real. And it’s really hard sometimes to ask them about spirit and their connection and not put my own projections in there.

1:05:56 And I’m finding that quite difficult with the film I’m making, is that I have come with a relatively romantic view. To take that away and be there with them, a couple of times I’ve asked questions hoping or expecting this talk of connection and value and honoring spirit and stuff. And it wasn’t there. And it kind of shook me a little bit. So it’s very, it’s, yeah, but then it’s just probably my questioning and I’m not there long enough.

1:06:29 Or the language or something. A hundred things. And so it’s really, so the truth is I’m not enough of an expert to know. I certainly having read a lot of the anthropologists work see that, I mean, they definitely are in a very real way more connected to their environment and see the effects of their behavior. But as far as that other ethereal thing, that thing that we all like to talk about, I haven’t figured that one out yet, whether or not we are all really tangibly connected.

1:07:01 I mean, in all of our chats, we love that. Whether we lord it out with Cheldrake Talks or Urban Laszlo or Quantum Field Theorists and all these things, like, yeah, it’s an entangled, that’s it. It answers all of these sensations that we have. but there’s also the neurologist to say it’s just delusional and like, it feels so real at every sinew within us. There’s no simple answer, is there?

1:07:27 There is. And when you go see these cultures, you have to be careful not to project it subconsciously or through translation or all this stuff, that your own idea is on what they’re saying. Yeah, and this film is proving very difficult for that. And I’ve had to reevaluate my own methodology for investigation. Okay, not to get that, get what you want.

1:07:48 What’s gonna be a success for this film? I know it’s so strange because we’re talking about, not to get caught up in our own Western version of success, but come a year from now when this is released or whenever you’re planning on it, what will make you happy? That’s a really good question. That’s changed a lot over the last year. Obviously, for this to be received, humbly received, not humbly received, for it to be humbly presented and joyfully received by people who feel that it answers to some part of them that perhaps they were wanting, that they were feeling a need to hear.

1:08:30 That would be really very beautiful and I hope that does in fact happen. Because it does matter what people think, I mean you’re putting your heart and soul into this so ultimately you do want to hear it. ego wants to hear. Yeah it’s like actually you know there’s there’s a bit of me as well it’s like okay so Bruce how much of this is your ego and how much of this is you know is your desire to where do you stand on this you know what are you going to do at the end you’re going to go and humbly live in a mud heart at the edge of the edge of the island and just have a family or not have a family and just be with nature or be in a community or do you want to start to be an activist and you know and challenge the next level of this or you know where is it you’re are you going to be the change, or are you going to lead the charge, or?

1:09:12 I have no idea. And there’s a bit of me inside that feels that there’s an activist part inside me that’s kind of scary, but it makes, but it feels very real. And there’s another bit of me that just kind of wants to not be in the public eye and to just do it, just to reconnect. Because there has been a disparity between my words and my life, you know? And that’s one of the other things that was fueling this journey.

1:09:44 It’s like I was getting all this beautiful credit for going around the world and doing these amazing things. And yet my life, there wasn’t reflecting that, the lessons that I’d learned. Wisdom is the application. Knowledge is one thing, but learning to apply it. You said you kind of envied the serenity of the tribe’s life that you were there, but then you couldn’t copy it when you were there.

1:10:06 You’ve lived too much of a different life. Well, but less so now, yeah. I think that now, having had so much more healing, and I think the meditation has been key to that. I always feel closer to that. It’s good for a slap every now and then, but I think that the meditation has been the main stay in me becoming more at peace with myself.

1:10:25 What’s your routine for meditation? I kind of make it up. Daily? Try, but it’s never daily. Okay, and how long do you go for?

1:10:33 Just having a detail for you. Have you got a tick list on the wall? I’m back to my transcendental, so I’m doing two 20 minute periods, one right when I wake up and one actually before I leave the office. So that’s me, but I stopped it for a long time and then I regretted it and I went back into it and I’m like, wow, this is why I did it. So I’m always curious.

1:10:54 Yeah, I used to time it and I used to do like 40 minutes, but I reckon I would probably do between 20 and 30. Right now, if I’m really honest, once a week, but when I’m on a roll, it’ll be every day, but it all depends on my routine, and if I’m in a routine, it’s much easier, but my life’s very rarely routine. Yeah, it sounds like it. Do we know when this movie’s come out? It’s going to be a big theatrical release.

1:11:20 You would like it to be in the U.S., in the U.K., and around the world, or what’s… Yeah, wouldn’t that be great? We’ll see. Yeah, we’ll see. Okay, and we don’t have an end date.

1:11:27 We don’t know. End it next year or probably the following year. I think we’re in the middle of this year, I think middle of next year to the end of next year. I’m super excited. For you to do amazing work with the BBC and then to have your own input and be like independent on this I guess to a degree and with work like someone like Damien Hirst you say is helping to back it, that’s a big shout right there.

1:11:51 Yeah he’s amazing. There’s some power in that, I’m really excited, I love documentaries and right now there’s so many documentaries on the same thing that for you to be stepping it up another the gear, I’m sure there are a few other people making very similar, attempting to but no one quite the same level. There’s a book called The Long Tail and it’s all about how media these days, you just have to find the right small group that really wants to do that and you used to have to have like a film like Jaws where everyone would like or a BBC show that like millions of people would have to watch but now if you find that core group of 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 people worldwide that love what you do, that’s all you need is an audience you know, because they’ll be crazy about your film.

1:12:32 And it doesn’t have to compete with Transformers, or it doesn’t have to compete with something on the History Channel that’s a documentary, but it’s really a reality show. You can do that nowadays. It’s what London Real is about. I mean, we get specific people that really like to hear people’s stories. And you wouldn’t watch this on the BBC, and that’s OK.

1:12:50 Nice. Well, my hope is that we’re going to really be able to express as deeply as we can these things in a way that’s understandable and have it as a felt experience as well. And then for that to just find its place, you know, and if it’s a small group that grows, that’s okay. You know, I don’t envisage it being to the broadest audience because I think it’s a little bit more niche than what we’ve done before, but how nice if we can do the whole spectrum. Yeah, yeah, it’s a fine line.

1:13:24 It’s a fine line. I want to ask you one thing I’ve been thinking about, and it kind of comes out subtly in some of your interviews, and I’ll be honest, it’s a little biographical on myself, because I’m 42 right now. I look good for 42, though, right? Yeah, man. I was thinking, like, on the clean skin.

1:13:38 It’s something that I’ve never had any children in. It’s like, fatherhood is something you kind of drop in here and there, and as I get older, it’s like, and as I have more experiences, whether it’s with ayahuasca or traveling or whatever, you always think, you know, it’s this part of my own psyche I haven’t explored yet. And you kind of drop little references to it maybe one day, and I was just wondering, Is it something you think about and have you had your concept of it changed even in the last few years? Yeah, totally Well, it is something I think about Unsurprisingly, I’m not driven by it at all. I mean I’m single at the moment. So first things first. Yeah and And if I was to be lucky enough to be with someone and fall in love I And they didn’t want that would be fine by me Happily adopt happily being a community and have other kids run around I have no drive to have my own kids and I did sort of make a promise actually to myself through an ayahuasca vision a while back to not unless I was really living in harmony with mother nature and and I think you know I’ve I’ve had the curse and the privilege of seeing the world you know from a very global perspective and you know when you See there’s so many people talking about population, but it’s also our consumption. That’s the real problem And, you know, and is it, you know, we have to ask the question, is it just our divine right to all have kids?

1:14:59 You know, you know, there’s seven billion or however many of us. It’s like we have to be asking those questions. It’s completely just accepted that having kids is is fine. And it’s the right thing. It’s what we should all be doing.

1:15:13 And and actually, I guess I I’ve questioned that for myself. It’s like maybe having kids is for me. I’m only talking about myself. is fine, but perhaps only if I’m in a community where I can put into practice the things I’ve learned and when I’m in a more harmonious place with nature, which right now I’m not. So I think, hey, who knows, I might meet someone tomorrow and be having kids in nine months.

1:15:37 I’m not nailing myself to any post, but that’s really what’s inside me right now. You said you’re not in a harmonious place with nature. Is that because you’re moving around so much? Yeah, I mean, it’s another irony and the hypocrisy of my life talking about these these things when I got one of the largest carbon footprints that it’s ever probably sat in this room, you know, and it’s like, and it’s, that plays on my mind, you know, it’s real. I, in some of my ayahuasca that I was doing before coming on this journey, before starting on it, was like, don’t go, you know, just, just flog your house, get out the mortgage system, you know, go and start your little plot of land and love the earth.

1:16:15 And I’m like, yeah, well, you know, what could be more simple and what could speak stronger to my soul than that, it’s absolutely, that’s in the core of my being, that’s what is driving me. And then the people around me go, Bruce, just do it after the film, it’s better to share that message. And I’m like, okay, okay, okay. And so I kind of, I’m in a quandary, I can see that there might be a positive benefit to doing things like I’m doing, but I’m also fully aware that there’s a massive hypocrisy in my being.

1:16:43 And I look forward to leveling that at some stage. And it’s not like I’m beating myself up and it’s like, you know, I’m, I’m happy I dance and I sing. I’m, I’m in a really great space, but I need, you know, there’s some things I’d like to, to do and to, to, to sort out a little bit better. Yeah. You were talking earlier about how if you want change, there’s only so much you can do.

1:17:05 I mean, we can all try to grow our own food and do all this, but like, you’re still going to be relying on this. But it’s together. We have to make things like this help us grow as a, as a race together. You spread the awareness and then and it’s good to make an effort But then you were saying like how much can one person do maybe what you’re supposed to do is this, you know Maybe that’s what you’re supposed to do not be carbon neutral. Maybe you’re supposed to get this message out to everyone Yeah, it’s really interesting isn’t it? And I you know, I go through that same Debate quite a lot. I I kind of tend to end up falling on Actually probably I excuse myself a lot with that but really what I I feel deeply inside is kind of stepping out, being in a community, just getting on with it.

1:17:51 And maybe later something else in a slightly different way, but right now I feel I have to, you know. And I, you know, it’s dangerous to me saying these things because here it is being recorded, I might do something completely different in the future. Change of mind. But, you know, it’s like the debate about economics. You know, some people say it’s absolutely fine to go out and make lots and lots of money, because then I can give it all to charity.

1:18:12 It’s like, well, yes, great, but is that what our society should be hailing? No, presumably society itself should be doing these things. I think as long as you’re spreading love, that’s what should be spread, because money isn’t gonna solve problems that money got us into. Love isn’t gonna solve the problems, especially with like the homeless and other situations like that. We just have to spread love.

1:18:34 And there’s so much new. I saw an advert the other day for some phones someone wants to make called Phone Block or something. And then on the back, you just have the little bits because phones are one of the worst things for causing pollution on the planet and throwing them away and all the radiation they’re giving off. Whereas when you, if something breaks in your phone, you can just swap a block out and get a new one. And that was a really cool idea.

1:18:54 And it got like 10 million views in a week or something. Little things like that, these little up and coming creative people that actually care and give a fuck about the planet are coming to light now and it’s going to be the future and you’ve got the Tesla car coming out, which is like an all electric car, which is supposed to be really good. And that’s going to change a lot of things. And these are all little steps, but then there’s a journey within that we all have to do, like dietary things and other addictions that we’ve got, you know, where we have to, which can do the little things, everyday things, like the choice of what’s on your plate every day in front of you.

1:19:22 That’s where you can see the difference that you’re making right there, whereas carbon footprint from phone bills, electricity, or from electricity and from heat, gas and all that stuff is not as obvious to us, but you know. This whole concept of community is something like, it sounds like a cool thing to be be a part of. But part of me thinks I’m never really going to be part of a community unless I go old school, you know, unless I really go move out somewhere where we need each other again. Because I mean, like, I don’t know, am I going to find a community in London?

1:19:48 Well, it is a global community. Anti-urbanite is what we are. I think that we are all in communities already, and we have the choice to make friends with our neighbours and actually really go out and do that, whoever they are, and try and harmonise those experiences that we have every day with those around us, which is beautiful and great, or others might decide that they actually feel that the tendrils of the industry trying to addict our children and all the rest of it is so powerful that they would rather step out and perhaps be in a place where there’s less of that.

1:20:24 And I think it depends a lot on many things, your circumstances, your drive, your vision of what’s going to happen in the future. And all of these things play out in how we make those decisions. And there is no right or wrong answer. We all find our own space. But I think what you touched on, Tim, is really important.

1:20:45 For me, in my own personal life, all of these things are secondary to my own inner healing process. Because everything I touch or do, we always look for the technological fix. another thing that Charles Eisenstein describes very beautifully. It’s like the technological fix is just around the corner, we’ll sort it all out, we’ll sort it all out, we’ll sort it all out. And actually, no, those things in the hands of us when we’re still disturbed slightly aren’t going to help us. It’s only actually when we find our own inner peace that we’re able to be more placid, be more present, be more able to connect with our neighbors, be more able to be the people we really can be.

1:21:27 And so for me, yeah, just trying to inspire people to take more responsibility, to look in, to feel, to go on that inner journey, and to realize that everything that we do, our thoughts, our words, our actions, not only to each other, but also to the planet, is really important. And I think that’s a very big part of the film that I’m learning along the way, is that all of this beautiful teachings that we’ve had from these amazing sages from the East and other parts of the world who’ve taught us so much about how to be with ourselves and each other, but that one extra element which has kind of been overlooked, that if we are all one, well, all one, all, not just humans, but plants and animals and nature and rocks, the whole lot, that is also part of us. We are that.

1:22:16 And when we’re hurting that, we’re hurting ourselves too, and we can see it. and bringing in that indigenous element that reminds us, the animistic element, that everything is alive and everything has meaning and everything is part of us. And the gratitude when you use something as well, when you consume something, there’s so much gratitude that goes out. But with the way we live, here there’s no connection to what’s gone on. We just consume, consume, throw away, throw away.

1:22:39 And we do sometimes limit it to people, don’t we? It’s like, let’s all get along as people and you’re forgetting about the plants and the rocks and the nature. Yeah, yeah, and the animals. But if you take on that indigenous perspective that we are all interconnected in some way and that what you are doing is also in some way, you’re doing it to yourself, and that allows you to perhaps re-evaluate how you behave and your actions and take responsibility. And then when you start doing that, what I’ve noticed is that actually you slow down but also things just, yeah, and as you say, you feel the gratitude and you feel a different sense and everything, you know, starts flowing, you know, life starts flowing and all of those little, you know, there seems to be a law to this nature that if you’re respecting everything, if you’re respecting and aware of everything you touch and if you’re being aware of that, then suddenly gifts start landing out of nowhere and you feel like you’re on this like beautiful gentle convey about going forwards and isn’t life amazing, it’s all this stuff coming to you, it’s just because you’re a little bit more aware of your words, even your thought. When what you say, what you think and what you do are in harmony, then you get in that flow. This is the trifecta.

1:23:54 If someone said something recently, if you want something, give it away, that’s what they said. Yeah, you send that circle out, the flow, and it’s the same with money. If you give it out in a pure way, not a selfish way, trying to give money to get something back, materialistic. If you give it in a pure way, it always comes back. It’s a loop, and what you throw out the front comes back in. People don’t see that, they’re too busy caught up in their petty day-to-day lives gossiping and they’re causing a shitstorm behind them and it comes back out. That way round slaps them in the face. Yeah, if you want something, give it away.

1:24:22 Think about this. Bruce, I’m going to kind of finish up with a question I ask everyone in that seat. I don’t know if you heard this before, but if you had to make a phone call to the 20-year-old Bruce Parry, I don’t know if you were in the Marines or not by then. I was. And give him a bit of advice. And it can’t be, keep going, Bruce, you’re doing good.

1:24:42 What would it be? What would you tell that 20-year-old? Wow, that’s a really beautiful question. What would I ask the 20-year-old Bruce? Well, tell him.

1:24:47 Either one. Yeah, well, tell him. God, I think you’ve stumped me. What would I tell him? What was that guy like?

1:24:57 He was pretty disturbed, you know. He was a bit troubled. So I would tell him that, god, that’s really good. What would I tell him? I can’t even connect with him.

1:25:32 He seems so far away. He was a different guy almost? Yeah, totally. Was he chasing a lot of demons, that guy? He had a lot of demons.

1:25:37 He was chasing other things. Very drunk. I would tell him, I kind of would tell him, don’t worry. It’s all good. But you just told me not to say that.

1:25:52 You could say that, but yeah, I don’t know if he would have listened to you. But maybe that’s a message, I don’t know. Because actually, I think that every single aspect of everything that’s happened to me is important. I’m not thinking, God, what would have been a good thing to have warned him about? No, I would never.

1:26:10 I would not be here unless every one of those things happen. There hasn’t been a single moment that hasn’t brought some learning. I think you have to change the question. It’s still a good question. It’s a good question, but you’ve now realized that you’ve stumped me totally.

1:26:21 I think you answered it in a roundabout way. On that same note, what’s the best advice you’ve ever been given?

1:26:37 What’s the best advice? You can see that I’m not good at these last-minute questions. You must have worked with some interesting people. You said be the change of, I think it has spawned that. Be the change, definitely.

1:26:44 Well, I didn’t meet Gandhi. He didn’t give it to me directly. No, okay, yeah, that’s true. The best advice. Parry a knife? No, that’s a joke.

1:26:59 That was a joke, that was a joke. If you get mugged in South America. No, no. Best advice. Are you asking to give you any?

1:27:10 Yeah, actually, this is… Don’t have sex from that Colombian guy. It all sounds so cheesy enough, but I can’t actually pick something out. That’s right. The last one is to the 20-year-old that’s listening out there, that’s watching you, watched your career and stuff that, I don’t know, wants to be like Bruce Parry one day.

1:27:48 I don’t know who wants to go out there and make a difference, make these films, make these shows. Tim. What advice do you give them? Yeah, I do get asked that for a bit. It’s just, really go inside and find that thing that drives you and that feels right deep down, but make sure that your being of service is for the benefit of others. These things will all come to you, but just really always try to be thinking of others as you do it. It’s like, try and…

1:28:33 There’s more strength in that. You feel a lot stronger when you feel like you’re serving something else than just doing it for yourself. Whether it’s a divine entity overseeing it, but I think… Yeah, because I get people asking me stuff all the time, and I think that if you’re just always trying to be of service to the widest thing that you can possibly be of service to, then whatever that is, then that tends to always work out best for you in the long run.

1:29:07 So if you’re just being of service to yourself, then you’re probably not doing the right thing in the long run. Well, I think if that’s your drive, if you want to just be on TV, or if you want to, then you probably won’t go as far. But if you’re really doing it, you can really see people, when they’ve got a cause. And that causes something bigger than themselves, that every facet of their being emanates a different shine. It’s like, no, their drive is different.

1:29:38 They glow and shine in a different way. And I think you can really spot that. It’s because, actually, that’s what gets them up in the morning. It’s not because I’m going to get a bigger house. It’s because this really matters.

1:29:48 I can really make a difference. It’s really going to perhaps help other people in some way. And it’s not a preachy way. Just somehow, however you want to do it, but just think of how it’s going to affect other people. And that is a beautiful drive to have.

1:30:03 You mentioned that someone wants to be on TV. Do you not miss being on TV? part of you not like being the TV presenter?

1:30:14 I don’t miss doing it. And I don’t miss, I still feel very much part of the public domain, so no, I don’t miss it at all. I kind of actually have a bit of fear of it coming again. I’m always, actually terrifying when a new thing comes out because I have no idea how it’s gonna be received. And I always try and challenge myself and break a new barrier.

1:30:43 And this is completely, I’ve flailed myself to the world. I’ve completely opened myself in this particular production. And it’s like, and revealed parts of me that are distasteful and a very much more raw perspective of me, rather than the glossy BBC character that you see, which is terrifying. But it’s also beautiful, because that’s that part of the image, the ego, that has been reduced again. And so that is very important for me on this journey of reduction, but terrifying as well.

1:31:25 It’s like, well, actually, yeah, you did see me do that. It’s so really ugly. And we’re going to put it in, because that’s part of the process. Yeah, it’s got to be real. It’s a bit liberating, too, because I I guess once you own everything about yourself, then you’re kind of at peace with the world, because they know everything, so you don’t have to hide anything.

1:31:43 Totally. But it’s how hard is that? We look at some people who really are expressing themselves from their truth, and it’s a bit distasteful at times. But actually, wow, absolutely, is no filter expression of their inner being. And that’s so nice.

1:32:02 But so many of us have that fear. I’m the same. there’s a little bit of you that’s looking at yourself from the outside. It’s just stopping me in my tracks and actually saying what I want. And in some ways, that’s good to filter, but often we do it too much.

1:32:20 And also, it depends on how pure that thing is inside. The reason that I stop back a little bit sometimes is because I used to find when I was less consciously just being myself, actually, it ended up being a bit aggressive or a bit distasteful because some of the demons are coming out. And so I’m kind of scared to do it again, because I’ve had that history of not being happy with the result. But maybe now, having sort of harmonized myself a little bit more, I will be able to move the filter and express myself.

1:32:50 But it’s scary, because we like to be liked, often. And I certainly was guilty of that. And so, who knows what an unfiltered Bruce Parry would be like, but… It’s tricky, because, you know, ego ultimately gets things done, and then you try to be egoless, but then it comes back because you want to put out a quality piece of work. It’s not about choosing them, I think, and having different personalities, choosing it that’s…

1:33:19 Facing. Scenario. Yeah. I mean, you know, you have an ego that makes you produce good work and stuff that you’re proud of, and you want to do this. Yeah, and you need a filter to be aware of what other people perceive your stuff as so you know what to try and hit, but at the same time there is such a strength in the purity of just your own thoughts and your own ideas coming out and not having any filter, but you’re right, then it can come out in the form of demons, if you’ve got some within you then it may come out less positive, but I guess if you can purify yourself through ayahuasca and other things and then access that creative element and mix with your soul which gives you your passion and intrigue in life you can you know really throw up some art and that’s yeah I can’t wait for it I’m so glad like I just assumed when I when you were coming on that this quest was gonna be a lot of a personal quest not only and also a quest to kind of deliver a message but I think people are gonna be fascinated to like ride along with you because if you think about the best documentaries we’ve seen usually it’s someone exploring something you know and you can see the way that they’re conflicted with what they’re seeing it’s It’s not just a presentation to you.

1:34:24 And immersionism is really the best, like, style of journalism, or to make anyone see something, instead of just telling it from a distance. They get to live it as you, you know? Yeah, it gives you a lot of street cred. It makes it legit. How do people, you know, learn about the film, or support the film, or get in touch with you?

1:34:42 Or is there a process there? Well, I’ll come back. I’ll come back here and tell you all about it when we’re ready. I can’t wait, man. We’d love to do that for the premiere and be there.

1:34:49 Please call me again. Can I be the co-host? That’s awesome. You’re on Twitter, at Bruce Parry. You tweet occasionally.

1:34:55 I tweet very occasionally, yeah. We have a website, QuestTheMovie.com, which will probably be up and running, but it isn’t yet. So that will come at some time in the future. But we’ll bang the drum when the time is right. Okay. So we’ll just send you our positive energy in the meantime.

1:35:12 Yeah. Thank you. Okay. That’s awesome. Thanks so much for being here.

1:35:16 Brian, Tim, thank you. Thank you very much. It was fantastic. Sorry I didn’t answer your questions, man. No, no, it’s okay. I’ve had so many different responses, but sometimes no responses.

1:35:25 That’s an answer in itself. You’re being overly sweet. Maybe I’ll think of something in the… I’m not as bad as people make up. Bruce was like, all right, are you going to ask me some hard questions?

1:35:34 But did I ask any hard questions? Not in the slightest. No, when it’s descriptive, it’s fine. It’s always favorites, I can’t do. Oh, favorites.

1:35:41 Yeah, it’s like, best worst favorite, that it’s like, favorites shouldn’t exist. It’s different. I stumble on things that are good for different time. Yeah, yeah. Timothy, what’s going on with you?

1:35:49 What’s what’s up with you for the next you know year I’m cracking on with the flow content to Christmas and then next year I’m fully trying to this kind of direction with the whole spirituality the holistic approach to health and trying to help kids because I mean the hardest thing is the older you get if you’re the longer your condition there’s a lot more tangled stuff so you need to untangle you know so I’m trying to hit the kids younger eat the fruit and vegetables keep physically active play like don’t when teachers tell you grow that’s absolute bullshit keep playing enjoy your life adventure be who you are and I want to try and get that across with I’m making content I made a yoga video in Santorini I’m making a calisthenics video coming out and then I want to do a lot of talking on consciousness on nutrition on my nutrition on the yeah watch this space yeah I can feel it it’s emanating yeah I mean, ever since I first met Tim, I’m like, yeah, watch this space.

1:36:47 I like the fact that you’re evolving, you know, a lot of people would stick with what made them famous, you know, like Parkour if you’re running for you, but you’re happy to kind of move on. Even though you don’t know where you’re going. I’m already moving on. Yeah, I’m on. All right.

1:37:00 I’m feeling your pride. I’m enjoying the journey right now, man. Dude, it’s all good. Thanks for being here. This same conversation wouldn’t have happened without you.

1:37:07 So thanks for being here. And yeah, it’s been really good, Bruce. Thank you.