Ayahuasca – Ready To Die

Full transcript: Brian Rose and Nic Gabriel on London Real

0:07 Disco, I like how that s*** was going down DED about ripping the mic with my own sound. OG, hello and welcome to London Real. We’re back, [expletive] Nic Gabriel in the house. Criminal gangsta hogc player [expletive] straight out of the airplane from Cape Town, South Africa. The prodigal son has returned.

0:29 Nic, talk to me. Dude, it’s good to be back. I mean, I just, coming, coming over here on the tube. It’s weird, like two weeks away or what? I was gone 18 days.

0:40 Yeah, good, two and a half weeks, and everything’s fresh and new again in London. You know what I mean? Like, it’s like when you have a girlfriend you haven’t seen for a couple of weeks, and when you see her it’s awesome, then a day later you realize she’s a b****. I’m just joking. So it’s nice to be back.

0:54 Yeah, bro, it’s always good to be here, man. I love this place. I thought you… I mean, we had some sun yesterday, and then, and today it was really nice. Yesterday I was like 17°.

1:01 We had sun, and then today I was like, oh s***, you’re going to land in here and be like I hate the gray, but you didn’t feel that way at all. No, no, I’m cool, man. Okay, it’s nice, man. How was essay? I don’t want to take too much time, but I want to hear a little bit about it.

1:13 Yeah, it was good, man. I saw my family for the first time in 2 years, which was, wow, that’s a long time. Yeah, it was difficult in a way. I think you were the one who said to me that it’s difficult being around family because they’re the people who know how to push your buttons better than anyone else. Did you say that to me?

1:28 I did say that. I think they do it unintentionally too, sometimes. Yeah, but it’s true. It is true. Did you find that to be true?

1:35 Yeah, I did, man. But you know, just before I left, like, I mean, my mom and dad, like, I love them, but you know what it’s like with your parents, bro. I don’t know what it is. It’s some weird familial thing, that when you’re with, when kids are with their mom and dad, sooner or later their mom and dad start to irritate them. It’s just the way it is.

1:52 It’s just like you rolling your eyes and you’re like a again, kind thing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But you know, my, my mom and my brother are super religious. They’re like really fanatical Christians, and I was leaving yesterday, and you know, they all came around to give me a hug, my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, and they gave me a hug, and my brother was saying a prayer, right?

2:17 He just wanted to say a prayer, like to bless me as I left, and while he was hugging you, yeah, while we were in it, it was like this little group hug. You know? Sounds pretty intense. It was intense, man, but I realized, you know, these are the only people going to love me unconditionally. Do you know what I mean?

2:32 Or as close to unconditionally as possible. You know, girlfriends come and go, friends in your life come and go, but man, these are the relationships, these are the ties that are pretty much the strongest. Dude, I got choked up, started crying, you know, and I was like, wow, I realized just what a powerful bond that is, man. That’s strong. That’s a good realization you made.

2:51 I guess that is true. Yeah, I mean, you know, there’s nothing wrong with getting a little emotional when you leave someone. Yeah, that tells you something. It tells you you’re still human, right? Yeah, I was thinking it was a cyborg.

3:00 The jury’s still out on that. But I guess it’s probably good you don’t have too many of those relationships, right? You wouldn’t probably want 20 of those, would you? No, you’d just be an emotional wreck. Okay.

3:09 Yeah, I don’t know what you’d be. I mean, also, if you get unconditional love all the time, then maybe, maybe it’s too much. You know, maybe you need to earn some of your love. As I sent you a text, what have you been doing while I’ve been away? Dude, I’ve been doing London Real without you.

3:24 We did an episode with Mike, just Mike and me, and then we had Mike over when we had Daniel Cucha, which is really episode… So been doing that, cranking the show out, and then getting ready for the ayahuasca, not the challenge, the ayahuasca experience. So I’ve been dieting, and that’s been pretty interesting and pretty intense too. So yeah, that’s what I’ve been doing. Yeah, I’m, I’m thinking about it every minute of every day, man.

3:48 That much? Yeah, okay. I’m sure I’m every hour of every day. You know what, I’m someone. Well, I think you know we have all these…

3:56 I, I know I’ve built up like some IM in my head of what I’m anticipating the experience to be like, or I have some questions that I want answered, or I’m basically just looking into, or like projecting what I want out of this. And I know one thing is for certain, and that is that at the end of it we will both say, “That’s not what I expected.” Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that’s well said. I think you’re right, and I think it’s a day we’re not going to forget, that’s for damn sure, either way, good or bad or whatever.

4:27 Yeah, you’re right. I think you’re right on both. Yeah, I think we’ll be surprised. Do you just want to fill in maybe some of the new listeners don’t even know what I… Yeah, exactly.

4:35 We should address this. We’re going to call this episode, I think we’re going to call it ayahuasca prelude, and we’re just going to talk about it. But yeah, I think a lot of people don’t even know what it is. So I think you have a better handle on the chemistry of the details of ayahuasca. I was going to read just a quick definition I posted on Facebook, as far as, ’cause someone asked, really, basically what is ayahuasca?

4:50 There’s some long ones, but I’ll just read a basic definition, and this is a dictionary, I think Webster or something. It says ayahuasca is a hallucinogenic brew made from the bark and stems of a tropical South American vine of the genus Banisteriopsis, mixed with other psychotropic plants, used especially in shamanistic rituals by certain Amazonian Indian peoples. That’s a short one. What can you add to that, dude? Yeah, I mean, the psych or the compound which causes the allogenic reaction is called DMT, dimethyltryptamine, right?

5:25 And I’ve actually just finished reading a book, which I’d give it to my Kindle. It’s called DMT: The Spirit Molecule. I’ve heard about that book. Yeah, by Rick Strassman, and he, you read it? Oh yeah, I read it.

5:37 I read it while I was away. Actually it was quite interesting. He took a… it was the first ever clinical trial into the efficacy of DMT, and it was quite interesting, like the control groups, the volunteers. It took some wild… did they do that in the States? Yeah, it was in the States, it was in Arizona, in pure DMT, not… was injecting with pure DMT.

6:00 Wow, pretty heavy. Yeah. So just for those of you who don’t know, the thing that I always find interesting about ayahuasca is DMT, this compound that I’ve just mentioned. It’s not orally active, so when you ingest it, there’s something in your stomach called a monoamine oxidase… compound which inhibits DMT. Right.

6:20 Yeah, it inhibits DMT. It just basically nullifies it straight away, and what the shamans in Brazil have figured out is if you combine this ayahuasca vine with another vine, the second vine has this monoamine oxidase inhibitor, so it basically cancels out the thing that cancels out the DMT, right? And that way you can ingest DMT and have it early, available early, active, and that way it can cross the blood-brain barrier, as opposed to just passing through your system unnoticed.

6:48 That’s exactly it. And DMT is present in everything. It’s present, it’s natural in your human body. It’s present in all sorts of… I mean, it’s in like grass, like on your lawn.

6:57 I think it’s common, but obviously ayahuasca is a way that those in the Amazon jungle have been doing for thousands of years. I think what became clear to me is, I’ve been chatting to many people, what’s the difference between DMT and ayahuasca? Why not just inject DMT, or why not smoke DMT? And it’s my understanding that ayahuasca is an actual sentient plant consciousness that imbues the user with wisdom. And I think Rogan mentioned how the DMT trip, if you take straight DMT via injection or via smoking, it’s just too intense.

7:38 You get blasted into this alternate reality or other dimension, but it’s over very quickly, it’s over very quickly, and you have no frame of reference, and it’s just all too much, so when you come back you haven’t really absorbed anything. Rick Strassman found that with DMT: The Spirit Molecule, a lot of the trips that his patients took, they couldn’t really remember much or they couldn’t really process much, because it was just so far from anything they’d ever experienced before. They didn’t have any frames of reference, right?

8:07 Did dangerous Dave talk about smoking DMT? Yeah, dangerous Dave did smoke DMT, and apparently It’s like a 20 minute thing, and you know it’s in your head, and then you’re back off of it, but if you smoke it, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, if you smoke it, and in Holland they call it the businessman’s high, because you can smoke it on your lunch break and then go back to work, and it’s going to be totally fine. Yeah, wow. And at some point we had been in contact with a few people that had, about just the DMT, but I think you and I are looking for more of a spiritual adventure here.

8:33 Actually, that is what we’re looking for, exactly. And so the more I heard about the same thing, it’s like ayahuasca. It’s called a plant teacher or something, so I think it’s something that we’re going to do a journey on, and this is not about, this is not about going to Amsterdam for the weekend and getting f***ed up. It’s much more serious than that. And maybe some people don’t get this.

8:48 I think a lot of people on my Facebook and family back at home are probably thinking, Brian, what are you doing? You know, I was thinking, what’s the difference between calling this ayahuasca prelude and calling it heroin prelude? Nic and I are going to go do this drug called heroin. We’re going to come back and talk all about it. You know, would that be interesting?

9:02 Probably not. So what’s different about this? I think it’s a good question. Yeah, and so I’m just trying to explain it to the people that are maybe very anti-drug, maybe very religious people, or not. They’re like, no, no, no, you shouldn’t do this.

9:11 Yeah, I mean, what I think, what, a lot of people don’t understand is the sanctity of what we’re doing. Like, I mean, I haven’t eaten pork, dairy, wheat, sugar, oil, what was the other one? SP, no caffeine, spices, salt. I haven’t eaten any of that stuff for two weeks, you know. It’s not like we’re two kids who are just going to go out and get f***ed up and party, you know.

9:33 This is like, we’re doing this because we want to learn more about ourselves as people, and we we, I think for both of us, I think I speak for both of us when I say that, we also both have some, like, demons in the closet, you know, that we want. Definitely, I, I, I definitely. We, I think we’re quite upfront about that. Yeah, I mean, there, I think there are our own personal demons. I think we might find some new ones when we go to the closet, or maybe we won’t.

9:56 Maybe we’ll find that mother ayahuasca is kind, which is what they call the teacher, and they do say that her first time, people are, she’s very kind and generous to them. But we’ll see what happens. But yeah, we’re going to get to the diet in probably a few minutes, but yeah, we’ve been sacrificing big time. I mean, you know, I’ve been on this diet for 10 days or something, and we got another three days to go, and I mean, it’s a social life killer, to be honest, because I can’t eat at a restaurant, because I, I mean, where am I going to go?

10:20 Where you going to get food that has no salt in it or anything? I went out last weekend at Piccadilly Circus. I had some Japanese food, which I could have some, like, sashimi, that was okay, but like, you know, being out socially in Piccadilly Circus at midnight is not a place you want to be sober. Let me just say that. So I mean, it’s like all these things that you forget, that if you go on this diet, you really can’t do.

10:39 You know? And so, yeah, we’re taking it very seriously, and we don’t know how this is going to go. That, just to give you a little bit of background, they say after, it’s a liquid that you ingest. There’s a big ceremony involved. I think we’ve got three hours of ceremony before we actually ingest.

10:52 There’s a trained shaman who’s been trained for 10 years that’s going to take us through this ceremony, and we’re going to be very respectful of all the spirits and the ritual and stuff. And apparently it takes effect around a half an hour after you consume it. The peak is about two hours, and I think it lasts with you about six hours, so this is going to be an all-night affair for Nic and I. We’re going to leave the next morning. That’s the plan, man.

11:12 I’m, I’m I’m not going to lie. I’m kind of anxious about it, but also excited. You know, what would I… This is a good question. I wanted to ask you, if I told you it was canceled, how would you feel?

11:22 Disappointed? I think that tells you a lot about that, you know, and that. So would I. I mean, it’s gotten to a point where, okay, I was scared. I mean, you know, we’ve been talking about this for six months.

11:32 I first heard Aubrey Marcus talk about it on Rogan’s podcast eight months ago, the CEO of Onnit, who went down to the jungles and did his first ayahuasca. So, um, yeah, I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m not worried. I’m not scared. I hate using that word, scared. I’m anticipatory, but if it got canceled right now I’d be bummed.

11:50 What would you say your biggest fear is? It’s just lack of control. I mean, it’s just like, you’re ingesting something and you own it, and there’s nothing you can do about it except write it out, and, and I’m not, you know, and that’s it, and we’re talking two hours, to four hours, to six hours. That’s a long time, and I’m guessing on this experience one minute could feel like an hour. Yeah, just, I’m chatting to a buddy, he gave me a few pieces of advice.

12:13 The first thing he said is, like, no matter what happens, breathe it out. It’s a great advice. He’s just like, breathe it out. Are you going to be able to take that advice, though, at the time? That’s the question, right?

12:22 Or remember that advice? That is the question. That is the question. I think that’s a great… I think I keep thinking just calm, let it happen, don’t fight it, go with it, breathe it out.

12:30 Um, I don’t know if enjoy it is something you can do. I mean, it’s from what I’ve read, it seems that the trips are characterized by one of two kinds, and the first is it’s like a very illuminating, pleasant experience, in which you might be introduced to a spirit guide or imparted with some information that will be beneficial to your life, or I don’t know, meet your ancestors, whatever it is, and then the other one is more of like a purification-type trip, in which you are exposed to your deepest darkest fears, and you’re basically placed into The Crucible. And I’m hoping for the former, but kind of expecting the latter.

13:17 Yeah. But one thing I know is, our intention is pure, right? I mean, we’re not like some weird dudes doing this to try and get some weird powers to take over the world. We just want to know more about ourselves. Yeah, I mean, our intention is pure, and I think it’s important we’re going in there knowing that we’re going in with the right energy.

13:36 We’ve dieted, we’ve respected this whole thing, and I think that’s going to make a big difference. But yeah, I’m expecting one of those, or a combination of those two. Part of me thinks I’ll grow more if we get The Crucible. Like, if I had to fast forward 24 hours, I’d be like, give me The Crucible. But then part of me, like you said, prefers the former, if it was a nice journey.

13:53 You know, a friend of mine, I mean, I sent this to you. I don’t think you’ve read it yet, but a friend of mine was explaining, I’ll just relate one of his experiences. I mean, he’s done this over 10 times, right? So he’s kind of old-handed it now, but he said he had left his body, like, literally, was in his energetic spirit form, and he was flying over this ocean, just like in a state of extreme joy, and he started flying low over the surface of the ocean, and this hand reached up and grabbed him.

14:27 This demon’s arm reached up and grabbed him by the leg and pulled him underwater, and he was getting pulled further and further, deeper and deeper down. It was getting colder and colder and darker and darker, and I mean, afterwards the shaman told him that he was starting to shiver, like, shiver intensely. Okay. And then he said, like, he did you guys as well. He said he couldn’t break the grip on his leg.

14:48 He said it was as real as some guy having him in a choke hold. Wow. And then, then suddenly the water turned red like lava, and he said he could literally feel himself cooking. It was so hot, and it became too much, so subconscious just ejected him from the experience. But what he understood afterwards is that if he had just relaxed into it, he would have broken through to a new level of understanding.

15:17 There was like some weird lesson that it was trying to… I don’t know what the lesson was. It’s almost like a jiu-jitsu principle, isn’t it? Yeah, kind of: don’t resist, don’t resist, go the other way, go with it. Yeah, yeah.

15:30 And I mean, I was terrified when I heard that. I was like, man, I don’t know, this is what I’ve signed up for. But you said something I find interesting, was that you had read that ayahuasca finds your deepest fear and then multiplies it by 100 and shoves it back down your throat. Yeah, I think I wrote you that message like a few weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, that’s when Aubrey just mentioned it, because he had a history of cancer in his family, and he took it, and all of a sudden he was showing all of the cancerous flesh inside his body, and it heightened all of his insecurities, like times 100, and put right in his face, like, yes, here’s all the cancer cells and you’re dying, and all this stuff, but then he broke through that.

16:04 So, you know, I’m, I’m just hoping in the moment I can learn to relax. I mean, I can do that when I’m conscious, but I don’t know if I can do that when I’m there. I was thinking about, you know, Boss Shuon when he went and fought in Pancrase in Japan. They first told him, they’re like, okay, it’s only one round, and he was like, great, and they’re like, it’s a 30-minute round, and he was like, great, but really he was freaking out. So he wrote these two big R’s on his palms of his hands, which R meant relax, but means rustic, and well it’s probably African, right, or Dutch?

16:31 And so he hasn’t tattooed on his hands right now, but I was thinking about doing that, just so I can remind myself just to relax. So I might do that. If you see me with two hours on my hands, the thing is you’re probably not going to be able to see your hands. Well, that’s the other thing. This is going to take place in the dark, pitch dark, although we’re told by the shaman that we will be able to see things in the pitch dark.

16:49 So yeah, we will be dark, and it’s going to be a silent ceremony, which I was surprised I thought we were going to be talking to the shaman for some reason, but we’re not, which I think is good. Yeah. I mean, just want to be crying for my mom, dude. I mean, that’s going to be kind of embarrassing in front of you, in front of me. You’ll never let me live that down.

17:05 I think I’ve seen worse, not from me, you bastard. Um, somebody said, on a tip from Facebook, to sing your way through it. I think that was someone that said that, just kind of have a please don’t sing. Yeah, I was thinking we got to be quiet, so I better be quiet. So, um, yeah, so there you go.

17:20 We’ve had a few questions from some people. Do you want to… you with them? Um, I just kind of Facebook that we were doing this, and we had a few questions. Um, I think we should get to this one right away. It’s from Jake Mundy.

17:31 He said, um, can you explain the diet required beforehand, more specifically, and how you have navigated the restrictions? Um, do you want to, what have you been eating? I know you haven’t been eating, but what have you been eating, man? I’m not going to lie. I haven’t been 100%.

17:43 Like, there’s certain things, like I was at home with my family for two weeks, you know, and like, people were having barbecues, and like, I mean, I couldn’t cut out salt completely, because you know, like, the guy would be putting chicken on barbecue, and he’d put salt in them and stuff, and I, like, I want to make an issue out of it, you know? Um, but you tried to stay, you just with the chicken only, that kind of thing? No, I, the thing is, I’ve been eating red meat but a lot less than I usually do.

18:07 I’ve completely cut out pork. Okay. Um, ’cause apparently pork is like the worst thing to have, that’s what it says. Yes, this is, yeah, the shaman diet. Um, I don’t know the science behind this, but it’s, you know, it’s their game, so I’m playing.

18:19 Yeah, that’s a good way to put it, Bri. They recommend the diet for two weeks. I mean, for one week before, uh, minimum three days. Um, I think you started two weeks ago. Mhm.

18:28 I started some of it 10 days ahead, and then some of it seven days ahead, so I cut the pork out before, and then this, this week, man, I’ve been… it’s called tuna surprise, that’s what I’ve been eating twice a day, W, which is basically a can of tuna, olive oil, uh, rice, and, uh, broccoli that I steam, and I just… it sounds like an incredibly healthy meal. I throw it all into one, no salt, no pepper. At first I missed the salt and pepper, and now it’s not so bad anymore.

18:52 Then I wake up in the morning, and it’s just water. I drink, um, caffeine-free Diet Coke, maybe one a day. Um, that’s my only, um, that’s the fun part of the day, and, um, that’s been it. Really? Okay.

19:04 Yeah, I drink some porridge with some fresh fruit. Did you… you’re looking, uh, you’re looking good. You look a lot lanina. That’s the first thing I said to Brian, um when I came in the studio today. Did you drop a couple kilos as well?

19:12 Yeah, a lot. I think it’s hard not to. I’ve been training hard, but like no protein shakes, no whey protein. So, uh, like the things that I miss are… okay, I have occasional Red Bull. I would have had one before the episode, I can’t have it.

19:23 Um, I’m not a real big sugar freak, so that’s all right. Uh, no social drinking, you know, that makes social hard some sometimes, so you just kind of avoid those things. No restaurants, that’s kind of hard. I made like a big mistake, um, yesterday, because I was in this health food store in Cape Town, and, um, I ordered the smoothie, but I mean, all the ingredients that had, like, almond milk instead of milk, and, like, um, coconut oil. It was a really, like, high-quality smoothie, um, and I didn’t notice that it had whey protein in it.

19:51 Okay, and the strange thing is, I, because of been eating so clean, like not having dairy and other stuff, I felt like total s*** afterwards, for, for two yeah, for two hours. Like, I really, I mean, it might have been, um, a psychosomatic effect, but I don’t think so. I really, I mean, I think your body adjusts down, because dairy is quite difficult to process. Um, so obviously if you haven’t been eating it for a while, your system, your digestive system, doesn’t expect it, and maybe it has to readjust, but um, yeah, am I cutting out the whey protein, ’cause I eat two protein shakes a day, or four scoops of protein a whey protein, cutting that out?

20:23 Yeah, my stomach is definitely happier. Really? Huh. Yeah, and I’m doing my Vitamix as well, so it’s just tons of raw vegetables, you know, blended up and drank, so I’m doing that, which is good, and I do some porridge and stuff. But, uh, interesting, you said that you also said you ate some bread down there, and you really felt it, right?

20:38 Like you got tired or something? Yeah, straight away, like I started to get lethargic. I mean, I’m really interested in, um, researching like gluten-free diets and gluten intolerance, and, I stay on this gluten-free diet. I kind of like it, and training has been really good. I’ve been probably 5% stronger in my lifts, which is crazy, and I’ve, I’ve dropped weight, but I feel really good.

20:56 I wake up feeling really good in the morning. I find if I meditate in the morning, that’s almost like having some caffeine. I feel, I feel more on when I meditate after. And you’re at least 5% better looking as well. Thank you.

21:07 5%. But I mean, this, this would be a hard lifestyle. I feel like this would be what a fighter’s lifestyle would be like, if you had an eight-week camp, you know? I mean, I’m meditating twice a day. I’m sleeping.

21:16 There’s no going out. Uh, I mean, I can go out, actually. I went out and played like video games in Piccadilly Circus, because, like, what’s a different way of going out and having fun? You go see a movie, play video games, as opposed to go to the pub or meet people out for drinks. So man, I’ve never really had a problem, like, going out and not drinking.

21:31 Well, actually, no, that’s not a lie. Wouldn’t say I haven’t had a problem, but like I can do it. I can do it too. It, when it’s in Piccadilly Circus, Leicester Square, on a Saturday night, when all sorts of crazy people are banging around, it’s harder. It’s, I’d say they don’t get that.

21:43 That’s true, or like you’re in the tube and, like, everyone’s f***ed up, and it’s midnight, and you’re like, okay, get me out of here. It’s like when you’re one of them, it’s one thing. But that’s what I notice. Morning. So, um, that’s a good question.

21:54 Um, do you think you’re going to continue any parts of this diet? Um, yeah, man. I’m actually going to try to make a concerted effort to not eat bread and, um, gluten-containing stuff in future. I mean, it’s very difficult, dude. It’s very difficult, and no one wants to be that guy who’s at a barbecue and he’s like, I can’t eat this, ’cause it’s got gluten in it.

22:13 You know what I mean? Yeah. To the barbecue, what do you have to avoid? I mean, you can eat meat. Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

22:18 It’s not that hard. Um, but dude, so much stuff’s got gluten in it, like spaghetti, pasta, like, um, pizza. It’s, it’s, it’s actually everywhere. The chicken I buy at Waitrose, it’s, it’s like chicken breasts that you buy, it has, has wheat traces in it. I was like looking at it and I was like, yeah, so they just use that in…

22:34 I don’t know how. Yeah, but I don’t think I mean you could eat that chicken with that. It would be okay. I probably could. I just want to do this.

22:40 I mean, we had a guest on here about three months ago named Daniel Livingston, who was our first guest, who talked about ayahuasca and he left Psychic Economist, yeah, the Psychic Economist, a great episode by the way. And, um, he’s actually just done ayahuasca as well. Man, what did he say? We might tell you. I’ll talk about that in a second.

22:54 I really want to hear about that, but he saw the fact that Nic and I were dieted, and he’s like, I didn’t, I dieted one day before, and, um, that’s cool. Everyone’s got to do their own thing. Um, I’m actually really happy I did this diet. I don’t know, maybe it just means I’m more invested in this experience, you know, that I’m taking it more seriously, plus it’s nice to do this every now and then, restrict yourself from some things, and see if you can hand handle it, and I can.

23:13 It’s like Nic and Brian do Lent. Yeah, it is kind of like that, right? Yeah, everyone’s like, I do that during Lent. But, um, you know, also I think Daniel’s a specimen when it comes to this kind of thing, because he seems to charge through somehow. But, um, yeah, I mean, the shaman did say the, the, the cleaner your body is, the deeper you’re going to go.

23:30 She said 10, yeah, 10 times better. So the more you diet, you’ll see that tenfold in your experience. I mean, I’ve, I’ve also like been working out. I worked out a lot on the beach in Cape Town, and, um, just, yeah, meditating the same as you, and just, uh, but not just like sitting down meditating with my eyes closed, trying to clear my mind. I’ve been meditating on this like experience, and what, what I would like to get out of it, you know?

23:52 Um, and just, uh, I don’t know how to put it. Just doing everything with this in mind. Would, would you agree? That’s, I’m doing the same thing. It’s really weird.

24:00 This last week has been like, I’m like, I’m like on a… I feel like I’m on a retreat or something, because like I’m meditating twice a day. I’m doing all this diet stuff. I’m thinking about it, but in a calm way, and it’s like on my mind, but it’s a goal, so I don’t feel frustrated when I’m not out at night, or I’m not… what did I do today? Okay, if I didn’t do enough, I’m like, okay, it’s preparation.

24:18 So for me I’m just kind of okay. That’s interesting. I, I personally meant, like, well, for me it’s kind of like I’m… I feel like I’m preparing for a battle, dude. Really?

24:28 Yeah, okay. I’ve got a feeling this is going to be… yeah. I don’t know, dude, it’s, I’m not, I’m not bringing that in for some reason. I don’t know. I’m just going to be like, okay, let’s just do this.

24:38 Um, this guy gave me some interesting advice. This dude who fought the demon at the bottom of the ocean, was that on his later tries? Or, it, yeah, it was his last one, in fact. He’s been, so he was so freaked out by that he hasn’t done it subsequently. Wow, and that was his tenth try or something, his tenth.

24:52 But he said also set, the set and setting of that experience wasn’t great. Okay. Um, it was a group of 40 people doing it. For those of you who don’t know, the Brian and I have, um, made an arrangement with our shaman. It’s just, um, Brian and I and the shaman, which is cool.

25:06 She normally does it in groups, groups of eight, right? I think six or eight. Yeah, six or eight. So, um, we’ll get a lot more personal attention, which I think is cool. We could probably go deeper.

25:15 Yeah, and I think we just might feel more comfortable. I know, I think I’ll feel more comfortable without other people there, although they do say there’s some group things going on there, and they say that, you know, I might be communicating with you somehow. I don’t know, even though we’ll be in different corners, huddled up in sleeping bags or whatever, in the fetal position. I think we will be in the fetal position most of the night, or laying down most of the night.

25:33 Um, so this guy said, uh, what was… yeah, he said try to keep it down, because that it’s another aspect of, um, I, I think it’s called La per. Is that right? Is that what I think the Spanish? Spanish. Yeah, like you purge, because what it does is, um, it, uh, this plant, it’s a plant medicine, you know, and it, it draws, um, all the negative energy and negative toxic substances from your body, and then you, you, you purge them out, um, physically and on a spiritual level, apparently.

26:01 Um, and, uh, he said what you should do is try to keep it in, really, as long as you can. Okay. Um, because let’s say you drink it and you really don’t like it straight away, and you puke it up in 30 seconds or a minute, I mean, it’s pretty straightforward that that’s not going to have much of an effect. It’s like when you’re a kid, you get high and you take a hit in, the dude’s always like, hold it in, hold it in. You know, it’s the same kind of thing.

26:23 Interesting. Um, I’ve heard that, ’cause I was going to ask, has anyone not ever purged? But I read something saying that if you don’t purge, it means you’re not, you know, you’re not cleansing yourself, you’re not getting rid of stuff. But yeah, I think you want to hold it down as long as you can. Also, you wonder if you purge because your stomach’s like, this shouldn’t be here.

26:39 I, I hate vomiting, dude. It’s like, it’s one of my least favorite. I don’t like it. I got sick, like, I think, like a month or two ago, I told you, and I, I had some, some heavy vomiting. I had done that in years, and I was like, this is just not nice.

26:51 It’s so s***, but, um, also, I think this apparently, this is a good vomit. So just, you know, get ready. It might not be that bad. But, um, yeah, um, do you want to script another question? Yeah, let’s do it.

27:02 Um, real basic one from, uh, uh, Steuart Roberts, is, um, what are you looking to take away from the experience? We might as well reason that if we haven’t already. What are you looking to take away? You know, originally I think we were like, I think I told the shaman this. I was looking for some clarity and looking for some reflection about what’s going on with me and where I need to go.

27:22 Um, at one point I thought I was asking a lot of a vine to answer these questions. Why can’t I answer these myself? Yeah, or through meditation, or just through reality. But I mean, it’s amazing, you know, it’s amazing. People with problems in their life never get to see them, or they can’t act them.

27:36 They can’t get out of their own way. So I just, I’m thinking that maybe this will show me what’s important to me and what’s not important to me, and more importantly, it will get me to make the changes I need to make, because otherwise I don’t feel like I’m making them right now. I don’t feel like I’m growing enough, even though we’re doing this awesome podcast, and there’s all sorts of other things I’m doing, which is great, but you know, I do want that change, and I understand that that change isn’t necessarily going to come easily.

27:57 I mean, look at the great events in your life that changed you. They were probably very tragic and horrible moments. They were for me, and I got the most gain out of them. So if I’m, if I have to do that, I’m, I’m ready to drink. You know, let’s, let’s do that, because not doing it will make me more anxious and more angry.

28:11 Yeah, on that note, not black, when you say not do it, it’s going to make you more anxious. It’s, uh, you know, some of my friends have said to me, oh, what happens if you don’t like what you find, or like what? And my answer is just, like, you’ve got to pay the piper sooner or later, man. Do you know what I mean? If there are these negative, negative, um, psychological, um, patterns, or some people might argue that they’re like, um, uh, spiritual wounds, or whatever they are.

28:39 Um, man, I want them out now. I don’t want them to resurface when I’m like 60, and like I’m too inflexible to deal with it. Then you know, I want to deal with it now. Um, so I agree with you. I see where you’re coming from with that.

28:51 I mean, why not deal with it now, when you have your life to change, and things you can learn from it, than like deal with it later, or never deal with that, just have these things repressed. So I think it’s important to do. Plus I’m a big fan of the, um, you know, not taking a, a risk is the biggest risk you can take. But I’ll be honest, dude, 95% of the people I’ve met in this world are not like that, and they want to, they want to run from this stuff, and they do not want to confront it.

29:12 They do not want to take a risk. I could probably, if I spoke with family members about this, which I haven’t, they would probably say, Brian, you should research it more, or this, or this, or that. At some point you’ve got to jump, and I’m going to jump, and I’ve done some, and by taking risk I’ve had some great experiences in my life, and I’ve done some stupid things, and you almost died, and all that stuff. But I, but unless you’re taking risk, what’s the point?

29:31 What’s the point? And this might be the point of being safe, like, if you say, I put a picture of my Facebook wall a while back. It was, um, uh, we tread carefully through life so we can make it safely to the grave. I think was the caption. I think I saw that, and it’s true, dude.

29:47 I mean, like life is a risk, man. It is, it’s just what it is. It is a risk and, and not taking one is the biggest risk. I really think so. And, uh, yeah, I mean, the older I get, the more I believe that’s true.

29:58 And so I think this is an important one, dude. We’ve researched it. I mean, I thought about this for six months, and we’ve been talking about it since the ayahuasca challenge, which was in November, I think, where you hit me with it. Was that, yeah, ’cause we started this in October? So, um, you know, we’ve been talking about it, sometimes jokingly, sometimes serious.

30:13 So it’s, on, like, Donkey Kong. Yeah, man. I mean, I was literally about to book a ticket to Peru, and then I thought, okay, probably better to go see your family. Um, yeah, I was going to go do it in Peru, and then I was really happy to hear you spoke with another highly respected shaman, and she said, um, what was it, that the Western mind is not necessarily well suited to the Peruvian way, or the… so I spoke with Daniel Livingston. Shaman, her name, she goes by the name of Queen Mum.

30:38 She’s also called Rain. And, um, she spent an hour with me on the phone. I mean, another thing, I mean, the two shamans, the two shamans I’ve spoken to have been incredibly generous, and incredibly generous is the right word with their time and with everything, you know? I mean, and they’re not closers, you know? They’re like, look, think about it for a few weeks, you know?

30:56 They’re just… I don’t know. I got a good energy from these people, you know? Maybe I’m wrong, that’s okay. I can make mistakes.

31:00 But with Queen Mum she spent an hour talking to me about the way she does things. She’s from, I think she’s from a lineage of shamans from Africa, and so, um, she, if Africa has something called iboga, which is a sister plant of ayahuasca, apparently she believes that when everything was one supercontinent, these things were actually somehow connected and related, because if you look at the supercontinents, I guess South Africa, South America and Africa were connected. But she comes from a long line, even though she was born in England.

31:30 So she speaks very good English. She says sometimes throws her clients off, ’cause they’re like, wait a second, you can’t be a shaman because you speak the Queen’s English. But, um, she, um, she goes to Peru a lot. Um, she has experience with ayahuasca and iboga, and, um, I told her about you thinking about going to Peru to do this, and she said, she said, you know, there’s a lot of um places you go to Peru which just aren’t that genuine. She’s like, if you go out in the jungle three or four days, you’ll get a very genuine experience, but she said there’s a lot of ayahuasca tourism going on down there, and a lot of the locals don’t like it, ’cause they feel like one of their natural resources is being exploited a little bit.

32:02 And so she said that, um, also it’s important that the shamans in the West, uh, train knowing that their clients are going to be from the West. So I think a lot of shamans go and try to copy the people in Peru and try to be like these guys in the jungle in Peru, and she said it’s important to know all the baggage your Western clients are bringing with them. And she, she went back in the day, she’s like, look at the, um, um, look at Catholicism, and like all the ways it pushed down paganism in the last 500 to 1,000 years, and all the hang-ups we have with one God and with the church and all this oppression of nature and all these pagan things.

32:35 She’s like, there’s a lot to address. The Inquisition, there’s a lot to address in our Western world when it comes to a god. ‘Cause when we go into this plant teacher spiritual world, it sounds like there’s going to be a lot of, you know, spiritual entities, which, you know, me as a Judeo-Christian background, you know, we have no belief in. Right? Yeah.

32:53 I’m from a Judeo-Christian background as well. I was a Christian for a large part of my life. Um, and even now, like my brother and my mom, I mentioned earlier, are super religious Christians. I mean, they are extremely, like, and I mentioned, I kind of was reticent to do so, but bit surprised you did. But yeah, and then, uh, I mentioned it, and they were like, and you’re going to, if you do meet any entities there, they’re going to be demons, and they’re trying to take you as far away from the truth as possible.

33:22 So it’s all going to be like a big elaborate scheme to, like, keep you from the glory of God. And I mean, that Christian conditioning is so deeply ingrained in my psyche. Like, I considered that for a while, even though I don’t really believe it. I did, like, it kind of freaked me out a little bit. I, like, thought, what if this is exactly not what I’m wanting it to be, what if this is, like, takes me to the dark side?

33:47 You know? The ayahuasca. Yeah, okay. Um, but, uh, I think, um, again comes back down to the intention, and ultimately, you know, if, uh, it’s a plant, we’re not, like, I don’t know, it’s a plant that grows in the jungle. So is the coca leaf.

34:05 So is the opiate plant. I’m just saying, I know what you mean. It’s just playing devil’s advocate here. Yeah. Anyway, so you know what I’m interested in, Brian, is I didn’t watch the Rogan episode, um, or didn’t listen to the Rogan episode where Aubrey Marcus does ibogaine.

34:22 Like, can you remember anything about that? Because that, to me, apparently ibogaine is a level up. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we can, we can talk about iboga, and maybe we’ll talk about it more in another episode, maybe when we get Queen Mum to talk about it. But I thought it was interesting because he had just come from Costa Rica.

34:35 Aubrey Marcus, by the way, is the CEO of Onnit Labs, which is the maker of Alpha Brain and a bunch of our supplements that sponsored the show, which we should do an advertisement for at some point, but he went down to, and did ayahuasca in the jungle about a year ago, and came back and changed his name from Chris to Aubrey, because he’d become a different person. He’s a very cool dude, smart guy. I wouldn’t say he’s really that far out, whatever that means, but he just went to Costa Rica and did iboga with shaman down there, and what I found interesting is this: he was talking about it in comparison to ayahuasca, so it gave me a few insights.

35:03 And, okay, he, you take it as a pill, because you ingest it as like a capsule, and I think he took one capsule, and another capsule, and he just talked about how his whole body felt like it was on an electric fence, and he was asking himself questions and answering questions about himself, as opposed to ayahuasca, where he was going on a journey to, like, be guided by a spirit or a plant teacher. Along, he said, he said, with the iboga it was immediately, he’s answering his own questions right away, and he consciously processed this in a real-time way, and he was like, oh, let me think about this, okay, that’s why, and he came up with like five different theories. He mentioned on the show, of realizations he made.

35:40 One, he called, um, he called it different self. His mind was thinking about something all the time, and he called himself mind boy. He said the mind always thinks about, oh, maybe I should do this, oh, maybe I shouldn’t do this, let’s think, is that the right thing for the future? And he said the mind can sometimes get in the way of your own individual spirit, ’cause it’s always calculating all the risks and thinking if it’s the prudent thing to do. And so he said, I call that mind boy, and sometimes you have to tell mind boy to shut up.

36:05 And then he talked about his flesh, and he called that the mud person or something. And that was, oh wait, I read he wrote an article about this online as well, right? Yeah, at Warrior part. He’s got a website called warrior part. us. Yeah, yeah.

36:15 Did, ah, yeah, I didn’t realize that that was the same experience. Okay, interesting. I think it was. And he’s like, okay, now this is all your flesh and all your desires, just to, as a male, to break things, and to f*** things, and to do all these things that you want to do, eat things. It’s just some basic carnal things, and he’s like, trying to separate those two entities from his spirit.

36:33 And, um, he just had some interesting things, and he said a few, I think he was really nauseous, amazingly nauseous. The trip lasted 24 hours. He said it was, he felt so ill it wasn’t even funny. Um, he just said walking was very hard to do. Hard.

36:46 Did he purge at all? I think he, I don’t know. I’ll have to check. I’ll have to check. Um, he did it with his fiance.

36:52 She had a harder time than he did, and he felt like after 12 hours he went back to his room, and he was still answering questions that were going on in his mind, but he said he couldn’t even, like, sip a bit of water for like 20 hours, and he was up for that long, and obviously you get, you know, dehydrated, and all that stuff. So it just sounded, when he described it to Rogan, they were like, I don’t ever want to do that. But he did say he made a comparison to ayahuasca.

37:12 He’s like, uh, when he went to go to the bathroom he could barely walk, but he’s like, when ayahuasca, I could walk a tight rope. And I was like, really? I didn’t think that that would be like that. So, and he said ayahuasca. He said in many ways it was a pleasant thing, and he said this was very physically, um, almost like painful while his mind was free.

37:29 But his body, you’d have to watch it, listen, go back. It’s on the Rogan experience. But I don’t know, it just gave me a little reflection, maybe ’cause we’re not going down the worst um another thing that, um, this guy, uh, another tip that the guy gave me, my buddy, um, is he said make sure you take a big enough dose that allows you to break through, because if you don’t, you’re just going to spend two or three or four hours being nauseous and throwing up, um, without actually having that, like, switch where you, like, enter the spirit realm or whatever it is.

38:00 So, um, I don’t know if we should mention that to the… I know, I know. Shaman said that her herb is traditionally quite a strong one. Yeah. Um, I don’t think we have any problem.

38:10 I don’t think, I think we’re given three opportunities to drink, I think, and remember she told us, um, if, if you’re in doubt after the first drink, drink, which I was like, ’cause the traditional wisdom is if you’re in doubt, don’t, that’s alcohol, right? But she said if you’re in doubt, which means you’re not sure you should drink, if you don’t want to drink, then don’t drink, because if you had too much or you’re not feeling this whole thing, but if you’re in doubt, have the second one or the third one. Um, I’m curious what happens there.

38:35 Um, yeah, whether we, I, I think we’ll get a good first drink. I hope, I’m hoping we do, because otherwise what’s the point? You sip it slowly or just chug it back? I’m going to do whatever she tells me to do. Okay, I’m assuming we drink, we knock it back.

38:49 I mean, I’m assuming it’s a ceremonial thing where it’s like, drink. I don’t know. Um, and few people have asked, are we going to record this? No, it’s going to be in the dark. I don’t think the shaman would appreciate us recording this.

38:59 I don’t want to record it anyway, man. Fair enough. I don’t know if we want to watch ourselves. I don’t think there’s going to be much to see except us laying down and maybe us crying or whatever. I don’t know, we’re going to do.

39:08 Um, but, um, yeah, so I don’t think we’re going to record it. We are planning on doing, um, an episode next week. Yeah, debriefing. I don’t know what I think we’re going to… I’ve been coming up with some names, but we’ll call it ayahuasca experienced, or something like that, and we will be giving a debriefing.

39:21 You’ll be able to see what it’s like. Um, yeah, I’m curious myself what we’re going to be like, you know? I heard Daniel said he was kind of flat for a few weeks, you know, just his whole personality was kind of reserved and stuff, so I don’t know what that’s going to be like. Yeah, dude, I don’t know. It’s, I guess that’s part of the excitement, is we just don’t know what’s going to happen, ’cause I, I already just have no idea what’s going to happen.

39:42 I just, I, I’ve, as I said in the beginning of the show, I’ve got a bunch of scenarios that I’m either hoping for or hoping not to happen, but it’s not going to be what we expected. Him, not at all. And I think the more you try to control this situation is the wrong thing to do, even though I’m probably a control freak at heart. But I mean, you know, the more we try to control the environment or learn more about the ceremony, I’m done learning about everything right now.

40:05 I’m just going to go with it. It’s going to be 12 hours. Um, I just hope I go with it and just relax into… are there any more questions? Um, I think that was most of them. It was just we had a couple comments there.

40:16 One guy had heard that, um, ayahuasca’s characteristic of visions of jungle animals, even for those who haven’t been exposed to the jungle. Wow, which is interesting. Apparently there’s lots of snakes and serpents involved. I like, like snakes. I have no problem with snakes.

40:29 My brother used to have a pet snake. Oh, really? So yeah, so I mean, I’m all about snakes. Um, but, um, those are most of the questions. I mean, there was a bunch of people, um, I think with a comment you left yesterday, asking questions or just making comments to you, good luck, I hear good things, I hear bad things, that kind of thing.

40:44 What percentage of your friends do you think would do this? That is a really good question. Would actually do it? You have some crazy friends, though, too, man. What percentage would actually do it?

40:56 So I guess if I could say I have a hundred people I would consider like good friends, wow, that’s, that’s an episode in itself. I’d say no more than 10 would do it. Okay, yeah, that’s high. Yeah, it’s, I guess so. If, uh, if you and I weren’t doing this, and, for, for say, for example, I needed someone to do it with, uh, um, for example, I, I don’t think I can think of a single person that would do this with.

41:24 Really? Huh. Yeah, maybe one, but I can’t think of who that would be. They would actually do it. I think there’s many people that might ask questions about it, but I think most people are at a point in their life where they don’t want to.

41:35 Fair enough. You know, fair play to them. Um, maybe they don’t have the, the splinter in the soul that we have. You know, I mean, who knows? No, no judgment whatsoever.

41:45 And, um, this is, by the way, no, this episode is not meant to encourage anyone to do this. If you do want to do this, cool, don’t drug, but, um, if you do want to do this, research it. I mean, Nic and I spent six months on this, and it’s not something to do lightly. Um, I wouldn’t, I’ll see how I feel afterwards, but I don’t think I’d push this on anyone, um, because, like, you’ve got to do your own thing. Yeah, right.

42:06 100%, dude. Um, anything you want to talk about or mention? I mean, get for the record. Yeah, one thing that, that I have found interesting, part of my preparation is, um, oh, oh, by the way, there’s no sex for three days before and afterwards, of the, of the, of the ritual, as well. Yeah.

42:21 Um, don’t know what that’s about, but whatever. Yeah, if she, if the, the chick says don’t do it, then don’t do it, right? Exactly. I think the shaman does the same thing. I don’t know if you’ve been doing this, but what I’ve been doing is, uh, so I’m kind of, my biggest anxiety, I think we spoke about this earlier, is like, it shows you how your self, selfish actions have influenced, affected other people.

42:45 It shows you how you’ve been treating other people. I think we talked about that before. Yeah. And so what I’ve been doing is just bringing, trying to remember every single time I’ve wronged someone, or every douchebag thing I’ve done, like, in the past two weeks, just ’cause I want to be prepared for it, and it shoved in my face. It’s a long list.

43:04 And, um, yeah, and I’m sure I’ve missed a bunch of them. It’s probably the ones I least expect. So you’ve tried to just come to terms with them or just recognize them? Man, you know, like, for example, on this trip to Cape Town, you know, like I just realized with my family as well, like, and I, I don’t think I would have come to this conclusion if I hadn’t been in this ayahuasca mindset, you know? Okay, just realized how, like, how much my mom and dad love me, and like, you know, I don’t keep in contact with him that much, and, you know, like, I can be a bit of a dick to my mom, you know?

43:37 It’s just, and I kind of, you know, actually, actually, when I started crying when hugging me before I left, and praying for me, and like, I saw how much these people love me, you know, and like, I’m on the other side of the world, and I give them a call every two or three weeks, maybe, you know, right? And I mean, that’s why I started crying, ’cause I felt kind of guilty, man. I just, like, saw like how, how self-selfish I’d been, you know, and I thought to myself, like, [expletive], I mean, if my was, get worse than this, this is going to be so s***.

44:04 Um, you felt bad there, leaving them at the airport, even though you spent two and a half weeks with them. Yeah, like, it was, I’m sure you know what it’s like, bro. You don’t, I don’t see my family often. You don’t see your dad that often. It’s like, um, I don’t feel, I don’t, I guess I don’t feel guilty about that per se.

44:19 I don’t know. I keep in touch with them, but do you feel bad? You feel like a better son would see them more often? Yeah, you know, what my parents struggled a lot, like, financially in the past few years, ’cause my dad was a successful businessman, and his business failed, and, like, and I kind of feel like I was the older son, and I wasn’t there to help them through that, and my younger brother and sister were there to help them through that, you know?

44:40 And I, I have felt a lot of guilt for that for a long time, you know? And it’s just, I don’t know why I’m getting into this now, but my point being that, like, this is the kind of stuff that you think might come out, that I think might come out, you know? So I’m trying to prepare myself now. Just interesting. Do you know what I mean?

44:57 You know, I was, um, yeah, I do know what I often think about. Like, I won’t go into specifics, but like [expletive] everyone’s got family issues. Like, I and you, you and I have discussed some of yours, and I, I often wonder, is Brian going to have to confront certain… Yeah, I was joking about the other night. I haven’t spoken to my mother for like five years or something like that.

45:13 I just haven’t talked to her, and, um, I mean, you know, no drama, but I just, my life seems to be better when I don’t contact her. Um, and who knows? I’m curious, maybe Mother will put that in my face, and I, and I, I’m guessing that she will put in your face what’s necessary, uh, and maybe that won’t even come up, and I, with me, I don’t know, maybe that will come up, maybe that’ll be the number one thing. Um, maybe me focusing on it will make it the number one thing too.

45:37 Um, but, um, yeah, so I just, I’m thinking whatever she brings, I’ll just kind of roll with it and deal with it. Let me ask you, Brian. Yeah. If, please, this is purely hypothetical, hypothetical, but if you could guarantee that on Monday night when we do this, that on Tuesday morning you’d have the answer to one question, what would that question be? Where’s the direction, where’s my direction for the next 10 years?

46:03 You know, where, where do I need to go, and what do I need to get done? That’s, I just, that’s what I want to see. If, if that. Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s w, that’s that’s that’s pretty good. Yeah.

46:16 How about you? I can’t really think of a single one, man. I mean, I think for me it’s, uh, I want, like, a strong connection to my soul. Does that make sense? Like, I want to, like, so, so I you know, there’s been a few times in life where, like, I felt like, oh, okay, I’ve, I’ve done something and made a decision based on, like, what I felt to be a really deep… it’s come from some other place, you know?

46:47 Like a, a voice inside that’s, that hasn’t been my mind, not the, the chattering monkey mind. It’s been, like, a very clear, powerful, wise voice, you know? Like that I’ve always liked to think of as my higher self, or my soul. Um, is I’ve heard that speak to me, and when I’ve listened to it I’ve gone right, and when I’ve not listened to it I’ve gone really, really wrong. And I’d love, if this experience, um, ensures more access to that, or allows more access to that, then that will have been a huge success for me.

47:20 Okay. It allows more access at the time, or in the future? In the future, if I can. I mean, I think you said it best when it’s like, you want clarity, and that’s for me as well. I want clarity, because, you know, as, as two individuals, we’re always, like, I like to consider us quite open-minded, you know, and, and also we’re both always learning.

47:39 You know, we’re both reading books, and we consider different people’s opinions, and, um, we research things, and the problem with that is it can become confusing. You can, I mean, paralysis by over-analysis, too much, too much info, and there are certain, um, things that I, I just need some clarification on, where I’ve, I’ve been exposed to two competing, um, doctrines or paradigms, and they both make sense to me, and I want to know which one I should follow, which one is, is truer. Or does that make sense?

48:10 Yeah, that makes sense. That does make sense. Um, yeah, I’m thinking I might walk out of there on Tuesday and be like, okay, this is what it’s all about. I thought it was about this, and now it’s all about this. You know, obviously I’ve left the very capitalistic mindframe that I did over the last 10 years.

48:23 No, dude, you’re still a stone cold killer. I am a stone cold killer. Maybe I’m going to go like build a Buddhist temple. I don’t know. I don’t think it’s going to be that extreme, and I also think that in two months from now we’ll have a completely different perspective on it, and we might have, we might be back to steady state.

48:37 You know, we might be pushed up or down, or we might be, ding. Yeah, who knows? Or who knows what we’ll be doing. But, um, you know, I think that’s also, I think a lot of, you know, in six months from now we might be back to where we are. I don’t know.

48:47 But, uh, well, I guess we’re going to find out. Right? Yeah, it’s a good question, though. But no, I do expect a lot of things to be put, uh, reflected back to me, and I’m guessing the important things will show up, and the ones it won’t, won’t. So I’m trying not to go through all my different things in life to try to figure out.

49:02 Um, plus I’m guilt-free, as you know, which is what makes a stone cold killer. That’s ’cause you have no soul. Oh yeah, it’s in there somewhere. Maybe we’ll find it. But, um, so there you go, kids.

49:12 Um, we will be back, uh, next week to, uh, give you the deep brief, or maybe we won’t be back. Maybe we won’t. I thought about that too. Um, yeah, if London Real starts getting dusty, the page, then you’ll know what happened. But, um, ideally we’ll be back to talk about it and then we’ll keep going.

49:29 But, uh, uh, otherwise, uh, we won’t, right? Um, anything else? Did you do a testimonial, by the way? I didn’t do it on my to-do list. Okay, if you do that, I might put a couple minutes of our own testimonials at the end of this, just so people get a bit of a perspective about what we’re going in.

49:43 Okay, Budd, and we’ll be shooting a little bit of film before we walk in, and, uh, then we’ll be back, and, uh, tell you guys all about it. Um, keeping it real at London Real in a big way, big time. Um, if anything, this is definitely about the journey, right? It’s all about the journey, right? About the journey.

49:57 Um, I guess just before we, we, uh, time guys. All right, peace. See you