Jordan Belfort - The Wolf of Investing: My Playbook For Making A Fortune On Wall Street

Full transcript: Jordan Belfort on London Real

2:42 This is London Real. I am Brian Rose. My guest today is Jordan Belfort, a.k.a. the Wolf of Wall Street, the former stock trader, best-selling author, business advisor, and renowned international speaker. Your best-selling autobiography, The Wolf of Wall Street, became a hugely successful Hollywood film, starring Leonardo DiCaprio as you, directed by Martin Scorsese, and grossing over $400 million at the box office.

3:18 The movie chronicles your meteoric rise to prominence as a Wall Street stockbroker, employing 1,000 people overseeing investments of more than $1 billion, but ending with you pleading guilty to securities fraud and spending time in prison. Since that time, you have reinvented yourself as a motivational speaker, business coach, podcaster, and entrepreneur. Your latest book, The Wolf of Investing, is a guide for anyone who wants to play the stock market to their advantage and learn the secrets of a top Wall Street investor.

3:47 You believe that day trading and single stock investing is a dead-end game, instead focusing on long-term investment opportunities where anyone can accumulate huge wealth over time. Jordan, welcome back to London Real. I love it. I’m a huge fan of your show, and especially of you, everything you do, by the way, you stand up to the man, so to speak, right? And you do it with the plumb, so I’m a huge fan.

4:13 I’m a huge fan, so I’m happy to be here. Thanks, Jordan. It’s great having you back. I love the book. It really vibes and aligns with the way that I teach my students to invest, so I can’t wait to jump into it.

4:23 Before we do, though, there’s some current events I wanted to get your take on. The big one, an obvious one, is probably Sam Bankman Fried. The trial happened, and now we’re waiting on sentencing, but it looks like it’s going to be a long period. You can see that through a different lens than most people, because, man, you know, you did different things, very different, and you can tell me about that, but you sat in that courtroom where a judge has to hand down your fate.

4:50 You know, what do you see when you watch Sam this week? What’s going through his mind, and what does Jordan Belfort see that most people don’t see in this situation? Well, I mean, I think in his mind, this is probably the worst time of all, before you get sentenced, you need not knowing, and just your worst imagination, especially in a case like this, where he’s literally facing a hunt, you know, a hunt could be life, by the way, it could be. I don’t think the judge is going to do that, and I don’t think he deserves that.

5:19 You know, to say what he deserves is hard to say, but I think, you know, 20 years, there’s like something that I could see, I could see just a judge rationalizing that I’m not going to take the guy’s life, he’s still young, but 20 years is a life changer. Like I didn’t have that, I did two years, which was honestly, like I thought was appropriate, because the judge, he was a hickey, he had hurt, but you know, the judge is like, listen, the guy didn’t commit murders, he got what I had done, it was basic, it was being done all over Wall Street, not to minimize it, but it allowed me to really have time to reflect, but it didn’t lose any aspect of my life, I came right back out even stronger, and the judge knew I would do that, so I think that was appropriate.

5:59 In Sam Bank and Fried’s case, you know, listen, I’m going a lot more money was involved, this guy stole billions and billions, and also, it wasn’t a very elegant crime, it was like the oldest crime in the world, just send me your money, I’m just taking it out the back door. Like we didn’t do that at Stratton, the Stratton was stock manipulation, the statutes are much lower for that, they just are, much, much lower. So again, I think that Sam right now is not a very happy camper, to say the least, and I’m going to take a wild guess that it gets 25 years.

6:31 Wow, and you’ve said, which is 20, which is really 20 after you, good time, you know. And you’ve said with that kind of a sentence, you are going into not a nice place, like you had two years, you were hanging out with, I think, Cheech, right? Cheechman, Chong, Chong, Chong, Chong, who kind of encouraged you to write, and that kind of thing, but if Sam’s going away for 20, he’s going to probably a serious facility with some serious inmates with no internet access, and his brain is going to have a real hard time adjusting, I’m guessing.

7:02 Yeah, so I think he’ll either go, at best, he’ll go to a medium security, which is not a good place, but worst, a little penitentiary, which is where you have the really hardened criminals, and you know, he’ll be someone’s wife, you know. So he’s facing too much time, because I think it’s under, it’s over 10 years, you can’t go to a minimum. So ultimately, what will happen is he’ll work his way down. So he’ll start off where he starts off at probably either medium or high, right, or penitentiary, then eventually his sentence drops, he does his time, gets under 10 years, he’ll probably move to a low, but he gets to five, probably to a camp.

7:38 And you know, at that point in time, it’s, you know, kind of a cakewalk compared to where he would have started, but still, you know, that’s a long time, buddy, that’s a really long time, and he deserves it. He definitely deserves it. The guy just, you know, really honestly, not only to damage people who lost money, but to an industry, to a nascent industry, to really, him and the guys at Terra Luna, they really screwed up an industry that still has promise, by the way.

8:04 And I talk about that in my book, and there was so much fraud in the crypto industry, right? But like, you know, to have the biggest company out there that’s buying political cover, that’s putting the name on stadiums, and to really just be a fraud, that really, I think, really set the industry back a few years. In the book, I spoke about Bitcoin being a very good long-term investment, I thought. I start the book off talking about that. It’s still speculative, but it’s a good long-term investment, and it has proven out already, because when I wrote the book, it was like $18,000, now it’s doubled already since then.

8:35 But I don’t think you should buy Bitcoin for a year or two. I said, I don’t know where it’s going to be in a year or two. But I do believe in 10 years from now, it’ll be substantially higher, and I think that’s my whole philosophy on investing. When I really lay out in the book, which I really think everybody should read, it’s such an important, of all the books I’ve written, it’s such an important book, because it answers the question, what do I do with my hard-earned money?

8:58 It’s such an important question. Everyone’s out there working, trying to save money, trying to provide to one day they can retire and have the life they want, or at least not be in a nursing home with diapers and you’re barely getting by like that, right? You can barely afford your diapers, right? And it answers the question of like, how do I really set aside money for the long term and be able to retire with pride and dignity and live the life I want, even if I’m not rich now?

9:26 And I think that’s the misconception that people have, is they say, well, I’m not rich now, I don’t have that much to invest, I only have let’s say 10, or 15, or 20,000, whatever the number is, this is not going to be a low region. I have to hit a home run. I have to find the next Bitcoin. There’s no way I can get ahead by basic investing principles with a small amount because I’m starting off with too little, it won’t work. That’s not true.

9:51 And I think what I really demystify in the book is how you go about with a small amount of money relying on proven principles that are like the best and worst kept secret on Wall Street, because you know this to be true, I know you’ve read the book, you know what I’m saying is 100% true, right? And also there’s nothing wrong with speculating as well. That’s a different bucket of money. You want to be speculating as well. Some of the investments you have like amazingly great speculative investments, right?

10:15 Where you can really hit home runs, but it’s proven it’s part of a larger portfolio. And I think that if you read the book, it’s going to change your life financially because you’ll have the security to know that no matter what I’m doing today, I’m going to be okay down the road. At some point, I’m going to be okay. That’s what the book, the question the book answers. Yeah.

10:34 And I think you really emphasized it there. I think a lot of men, maybe women too, but they jump into Wall Street and they start watching stocks and they try to do what you just said. Okay. One of these is going to make me, uh, you know, Jordan Belfort rich is what they’re thinking. And when they do that, they get into trouble.

10:51 And I know you went deep on your brother in law Fernando, where you watched him take a hundred thousand dollars and you watched it go down to $3,000 in a short period of time, because I think he was trying too hard. You know, he was trying to bet on this and trying to bet on that when you were just like, if you just take a step back and think long-term that you can actually grow your money in a pretty much a tried and true way, as long as you don’t succumb to all of those, what are there? They’re kind of shiny objects that you want to go and press the button and you want to trade here and you want to do that.

11:23 Exactly. That’s what gets you in trouble more than anything, right? So I think, yeah, I think Fernando, my brother-in-law, who’s a wonderful guy here, he was the perfect person to talk about because Fernando is smart. He’s successful, wealthy, has a great business, amazing wife who’s successful as well. Right.

11:42 And I watched this guy who should be like, no better, like just get decimated in the stock market. And that’s a very common story about successful, educated people, not idiots, just smart guy. Okay. Wired in socially like he’s a, he’s a real, he’s not, he’s not like a fool. No one’s fool.

12:00 But when it came to the stock market, he was foolish. Why? Because the message that Wall Street puts out there to all their marketing and TV shows and periodicals and newspapers is they’re trying to bait you to play into this corrupt casino, which is basically short term trading on wall theater, corrupt casino, where it’s stacked against you heavily. And sure some of you are at least the older listeners, but even the young ones probably seen the movie war games, right?

12:25 The Matthew Broderick, right? Is a classic scene. You know, the only way to win is not to play. You’re going to win. If you want to beat wall street at the, at their own game, the only way to win is not to play their game.

12:34 You can’t play their game. Their, their game is to try to suck you into this corrupt casino. What do I mean by that? Well, if you go to a regular casino, like the legit casino, whether it’s in London or in Atlantic city or Las Vegas, right? The odds are stacked against you.

12:48 And we all know that sometimes they’re stacked 3% against you, maybe 7%. I think even a bit higher on the slots, right? It’s stacked against you. Can you win? Yeah, you can win, but more often than not, and especially the longer you play, you eventually lose.

13:01 And that’s why all those big, beautiful hotels have been built because over the longterm people generally lose and it’s fun, but you have fun. It’s exciting and they take care of you. Your memories fair enough. So you’re not going to go to become a gamble to get rich typically, unless you’re a professional gamble, which is very rare, right? But then you have a different type of casino, a corrupt casino where they have a loaded dice and they deal from the bottom of the deck and they have shills playing in the same games as you to throw you up in that casino.

13:32 You’re going to get destroyed because it’s not legit. No, there’s besides it being stacked against you and then they cheat you. Well, that’s the stock market. When you try to play short term trading games and try to tie in the market or pick individual stocks, you are so far behind the eight ball that in the end of the day, it’s so seldom. And it’s been study after study over a hundred years, pluses, academic studies, scientific studies, human beings, a terrible stock pickers.

14:00 We just individual stock pickers. So when I wrote this book, I was like, okay, here’s the deal. Wall Street, as much as many people hate them and demonize them, Wall Street serves a very, very important purpose in the economy of the United States and the global economy as well. Right. They create massive value.

14:18 There is no doubt like the company like a Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan. This is integral to the proper functioning of the economy, US and global economy. They take companies public. They provide further financing. They issue out sports, which companies deserve more financing.

14:34 They secure the credit markets, the debt markets, right? These are instrumental credit cards that make the economy in the world run. We’d be far worse off without Wall Street than with them. That’s the good side of Wall Street. Then you have the not so good side, the not useful side where they create weapons of mass financial destruction in the form of derivatives and credit default swaps and things that brought on the housing crisis.

14:56 They create bubble after bubble after bubble after bubble, make fortunes on the way up and then ask the taxpayer to bail them out on the way down. And so, you know, then they encourage all this short term activity with people like Jim Kramer, yap, yap, yapping away on CNBC and all these periodicals and platforms that try to get you to trade and try to go against what real everyone knows, by the way, in the inside, what is the best thing to do is the opposite of that, right? So all of this is there, this not useful side.

15:25 So the question that the book really answers is how do I extract as an individual, as an average person, the mass, the most of the massive value that Wall Street creates? How do I get my fair share of that? Because it’s there. And on the flip side, how do I avoid getting sucked in to the corrupt casino? And I came up with really like the four or five steps, like five steps in all process that any person who reads this book, you get so, so simple to do to be able to essentially extract your share of the value that Wall Street creates without getting whipsawed and caught up in the corrupt casino.

15:58 Right. At the same time, there’s nothing wrong with having some money set aside for healthy speculation in solid venture capital stuff, even some short term trade if you like that stuff, nothing wrong with that. But it’s a different bucket of money. Your real money, your sure money should be in a very different type of investments. Okay.

16:17 Very different types of investments, starting with the S&P 500, which is the biggest 500 companies in the United States. Yeah. And speaking of the United States, I mean, look, there’s a lot of talk about inflation gone, you know, awry and is the dollar being printed too much? But like you make a pretty strong assertion in this book, but that while some of that’s true, still the US is and will be for a long time, the leading global economy. It’s got the biggest and best capital markets in the world.

16:44 It’s got a rule of law. And that really is where you want to have your money for appreciation over time. That is what you assert in there. And you like the S&P 500 because it’s the best of the best. Right.

16:55 Well, for a number of reasons. Number one, what you’re saying is true. So worse, you could say, well, the US is the best bed option out there, right? Because every economy has its problems, right? Let’s just go back in history a little bit here, right?

17:08 Because I think context is important. When I was in college, just graduating was the eighties, right? Japan was taking over the world. It was Japan. They’re going to be the biggest economy.

17:19 Well, everything is Japan, Japan, Japan, Japan, House of the Rising, the rising sun movie with Wesley Stipes. I mean, you get it. So like, in other words, Japan was going to just destroy everyone. They were just that sharp. Then it turned out, wait a second.

17:31 A lot of it was a mirage and there was fundamental problems, problems in Japan in their capital markets, their real estate markets, cross ownership, corruption, right? And suddenly the whole thing unraveled. They had a zombie decade. They’re just barely coming out of it right now. And they have terrible demographics, which is a big problem, right?

17:48 Now it’s China. China is going to take over the world. China’s got the perfect system, the perfect solution, blah, blah, blah. Yet we see now there’s major cracks in the Chinese economy as well. They have their own problems.

17:59 And there’s nothing to say about China, by the way, because they’ve done an amazing job of lifting a population out of poverty over the last 20s. They’ve been brilliant at it. But to think that, you know, just the next take over, I don’t buy it. I just don’t buy it because I’ve traveled the whole world. I’ve been to, you know, UK, dozens of times all over the world.

18:19 There’s something very special about the US mindset about it. You know, from the United States about the entrepreneurial mindset, the not being scared to fail, the ability to come back from failure, the access to capital markets here, which is still the best in the world by a country mile. And I really believe that over the long term, especially when it comes to the biggest companies, in other words, yes, I think that as the US economy becomes more challenged with more and more debt service, that debt, you know, the trillions of dollars of budget deficit, right?

18:52 Yes. I think that middle class is going to continue to get squeezed as we more and more difficult to be poor, poor, poor, poor people, even poorer. But you’re always going to have these big, giant companies. I think it just, the spread of wealth just gets larger and more severe at the top. So what does the S&P 500 represent?

19:13 It represents the 500 biggest, baddest, most profitable companies, generally speaking in the United States, which do almost half their business overseas. So you’re getting overseas. You’re not investing over, you’re getting overseas exposure as well by investing in the S&P 500. They’re multinational companies, right? That’s number one.

19:33 Number two is that the 500 companies today are not the same 500 companies as last month or three months ago or a year ago. And those every three months is a committee that meets at the standard of pause, which manages the index, right? And they decide which of these companies maybe is becoming less relevant to its sector because they have 10 different sectors. It’s divided through this, you know, this is healthcare. There’s information, computers, there’s industrials and blind real estate, blah, blah, blah, right?

20:02 Mining and so forth, right? So they say, well, which of these companies is falling from grace? Is becoming less relevant to its sector. Maybe you’re starting to lose money. And if so, they will eliminate that from the index and replace it with a better representative company.

20:18 So the companies are being traded out. If you go back to the beginning of the S&P, which the modern S&P, which is in the 50s, 57, I think, or 56, right, when it was first launched, right? It was, there was before that, but it was a little bit different, right? The modern S&P 500, right? I think so.

20:35 Like a handful of companies that are still there that were originally there because those original companies were not reflected anymore on what the US economy represents. So essentially you’re, get this perfect investment, this mirror image of the health and wellness of the overall US economy at the highest level. And that is proven over time to be by far the best investment outage. Beats individual stock picking by a country mile. It’s also far more tax efficient because you don’t have to deal with all this trading in and out of companies as they change the index out, right?

21:10 So when you really calculate this over time, if you’re patient and you continually just put a little bit of money in at strategic intervals, it could be every month, every quarter, right? Even if you start with a small amount, there’s something called long-term compounding, which kicks in. And over time, even a small amount of money turns into a gigantic nest egg. The problem most people have is they can’t see it because it’s not like three years out, five years out, they don’t look past that.

21:39 They say, well, if it’s only doing 11% a year or at best 13% a year, how can I take $10,000 and ever get anywhere? The answer is you can, and you will if you are patient and you reinvest your dividends that you get, add a little bit each month, hopefully to it, right? It’s like the old thought experiment. You probably didn’t see where you were a kid, but taking the penny, double it every day, right? So watch what happens.

22:02 You take a penny and double it every day. In 30 days, you’re a multi-millionaire. You’re worth like $6 million, right? That’s okay, great. But here’s the weird part.

22:12 At day 20, you’re still broke. Like nothing happens. In the first 20 days, it’s like, it’s not working. It’s not working. There’s just two cents.

22:19 Day 10, you have like a dollar, five dollars. It doesn’t work. But then suddenly at the very end, in the last 10 years, it goes parabolic. That’s called the late stage threshold of long-term compounding. So if you have patience with this type of investment, I lay out in the book and I really show you exactly what to buy, where to buy it, what account to buy it.

22:42 And it’s not like magic. It’s just like, it’s just logic and it’s history. It’s proven to work, right? You get this late stage threshold and you score. So for the younger viewers, I know you have a lot of younger people who follow you, which is a great thing by your financially empowering young people.

22:58 If you’re your 20s or 30s, if you start now with this stuff, you’re going to have millions of dollars waiting for you when you’re ready to retire, unless of course, you know, the United States implodes. And that gives you a bigger problems than that. It’s like, it’d be much bigger problems in your retirement account, probably a nuclear war or something. Right? So I think generally speaking of history, even comes close to repeating itself as it has for the last hundred somewhat years, you’d be in great shape if you follow the advice in this book.

23:22 And that doesn’t mean you can’t speculate because I believe people should speculate. I think it’s healthy. And also I think you should set aside money. Like I think you should have money that you set aside the speculation. Why? Because if you don’t set aside money, you might spend too much on it.

23:38 Invest too much. Have a set amount that you’re going to speculate with. This is your budget for speculation. And then you could actually do it prudently and logically. And that’s where I know where some of the stuff you teach comes, which is how do you help me speculate in certain things?

23:51 You know, whether it’s in real estate, in crypto or, you know, many other things that you can use, you know, individual VC, whatever it might be. Right. So that’s the formula in the book. And I know people that have read it, especially my own publisher when they were editing, they’re like, I changed my whole portfolio, saved me so much money in fees and commissions and whatnot. So it’s very empowering.

24:11 Look, there’s that famous movie from the Lime Wall Street where Bud Fox is on the floor of Jackson Steinem and Marv, his buddy, he reminds him what the mantra is. And that is churn them and burn them. And that’s what Wall Street is all about. They want you to constantly trade because when they trade, they make fees. And that was back then these days, you’re going up against high speed trading.

24:34 You go against, like you said, a completely stacked deck in a casino that is going against you to lose. And, you know, when I started teaching crypto about two and a half years ago, Jordan, I saw a version of the stock market on steroids. Crypto is the same thing, except the volatility is 10X. And the traders don’t have no idea what they’re doing. And there’s all these things that are trying to get you to trade all the time.

24:57 Right. All the apps are made by gaming companies. They blink red, they blink blue, they blink green. And all the trade confetti comes out like congratulations. And all the news articles are trying to get you to FOMO or FUD in.

25:11 And because everybody in the crypto industry wants you to transact. And so I remember teaching my students right when we started, I said, look, I’m the one person that wants you to trade less. I want you to trade infrequently. And a small tiny percentage of your portfolio should be in crypto. I’m talking 5% unless, you know, otherwise you’re crazy.

25:30 And like you said, have a small percentage that you can play with. You can get, you know, your juices out or you can speculate on something. But the bulk of it should sit there and be boring as hell. And that’s exactly what you’re teaching here, Jordan. Do you think kids, these gays have less patience because of social media and the internet?

25:48 Do you think that that’s a skill you have to really remind people and train into them? You know, I think yes, it’s partially true, but I think also they just don’t have the right information. In other words, when I wrote this book, you know, and I started showing early copies to people, the people that were more experienced were like, yeah, of course it’s true. Right. Like any experienced investor who reads this book, any real Wall Streeter will immediately say, of course, the best advice you could ever give someone is what’s in this book.

26:19 It’s just, it’s pure, it’s inaudibly correct. It’s supported by every study out there, right? But if you show it to someone that’s relatively young and not experienced in the market, they’ll be like, really? I didn’t even know this existed. I heard of that SB thing, but they don’t know what type of account to put it in.

26:35 They don’t know about maximizing the tax efficiency by going into certain types of tax-free accounts. And it’s so simple. Like when I was writing it, I’m like, it’s kind of simple, stupid, you know? But in the end, most of the greatest things in life are simple, stupid. They’re like, you don’t need to overcomplicate stuff.

26:51 And I think that, you know, once you get started on this and you start investing your money, you’ll be shocked at like how easy it becomes a program almost. Because one of the important things, like what’s called the golden trifecta, okay? The golden trifecta is like this three pronged approach to investing. And the first one is, number one is finding an investment vehicle that returns a predictable amount each year. Now, the S&P is like that, although it could lose some years and gain others, but over the long term, it’s a very predictable average, about 11.5% a year, more or less, right?

27:26 That’s the first part of it, right? That is more than sufficient to have massive long-term compounding. If you’re only returning 4%, it’s not. Compounds very slowly. When you cross over 10%, the compounding starts to happen really fast, especially as the years go on, right?

27:42 So that’s the first thing, is having a great investment that is predictable, that’s safe, that’s going to give you a return more every year, on average, every year, right? The second thing is reinvesting your dividends. In other words, because these companies, they’re big companies, they pay a dividend. So that means you’re going to get cash every quarter, more or less, right? As these companies pay out to a child.

28:02 You’re a shareholder, that means your ownership of the company, they’re going to pay you every quarter, some amount of money, right? As small as might be. You could take that money, and you could use it to live, which some people do as they get older, right? Because if you have a lot, you know, it amounts a significant amount of money every month, every quarter, right? But when you’re younger, I strongly advise you to just let it run.

28:23 Take it, check, reinvest my dividends. They’ll buy you additional shares of the S&P, right? That’s the second thing. The third thing, most important of all, is regular, frequent contributions. No matter where the market is, what you have to do is resist the urge to say, the market looks weak right now.

28:41 I don’t think I should be investing now, because it’s probably going to go down this year, and I’d rather wait until it bottoms out, and then invest at the bottom. You can’t do that. It’s impossible to predict where the market is going next. You know, no one is worse than Jim Cramer, who’s out there trying to convince you to trade short term. This guy’s wrong more than he’s right, and he changed his mind like the wind blows.

29:01 In fact, the last chapter of the book is called, Meet the Fuckers. And so, you know, I have to meet the fuckers. They’re called, Meet the Fuckers. And Meet the Fuckers is like all the people who are out there trying to convince you to play the suckers game, to go off-program, and to separate you from your money. And he’s one of them, by the way, and he’s really good at it.

29:19 He’s entertaining. His knowledge base is no doubt vast. But if you follow Jim Cramer’s advice, the only view that I get is a case of financial whiplash, and then you’ll end up in the poor house. It doesn’t work. And everyone knows that.

29:31 Everyone knows that. Wall Street knows Jim Cramer’s a joke. But here he is on the major network preaching people to do the exact opposite of what everyone really knows is in their best interest. Like, is to trade for the long term, is to invest for the long term. So that’s in long-term investing versus short-term trading and speculation.

29:50 So you have to learn to resist that. And I think when the book was written by me, I made such a strong case for it. And it’s funny as hell. I mean, it’s really funny, the book. So you laugh out loud as you’re reading it.

30:01 So you really get the, you don’t say, oh my God, it’s so ridiculous, the whole thing, especially the history of Wall Street and how it really came to be as it is today and how they get away with murder. And you know what happens on Wall Street. It’s almost like the inside, you know, the big insiders, like it’s a revolving door between Wall Street and Washington. It’s so ridiculous and insidious for the people who own, you know, run the biggest firms and go run the government that makes the laws that regulate the form of firms.

30:26 So they create loopholes. They can jump through it’s just, it’s the craziest thing, right? It’s revolving door between Wall Street and Washington. So at the end of the day, how do you beat them at their own game? Very simple.

30:36 You don’t play their game. You go on a complete different program, which is the one I lay out in the book. Yeah. And like you said, anybody who spent time on Wall Street, like we have, we know it’s true because we spent decades there on the inside. But most people have no idea.

30:50 And also a lot of these young kids that started trading on Robinhood or in crypto, they really don’t know. And what you said it right there, and I’d say for everybody watching right now, listen to what Jordan just said. Nobody can predict the future. And yet everybody on Twitter and on TV and Cramer all showing you the charts and telling you what the feds about to do and predicting out the stock market. Nobody knows what’s going to happen.

31:14 And they all pretend like they know what’s going to happen because that’s how they get paid their big salaries and their big bonuses. But the truth is, is that nobody knows. All right. So you should not listen to anybody who’s going to tell you what’s going to happen tomorrow because they don’t know. And so like you said, unless you want to be a super professional insider, like a professional poker player, right?

31:34 Where you want to dedicate your entire life to this thing, then it’s better not to even walk in the door of the casino and say, guess what? I don’t know. And nobody knows. So what am I going to do? I’m going to dollar cost average in, I’m going to hold long-term.

31:48 I’m going to let compounding work for me. And then I’m going to spend my extra time doing other things like being an entrepreneur or being a parent or whatever you want to do, right? But don’t get sucked into this game of picking stocks and predicting the market because you’re going to get taken to the cleaners every single time. So here’s, I’ll take it one step further because you’re going to be a little bit more of a business person. I’ll take it one step further because you’re a hundred percent right.

32:11 The problem is, is when you watch TV, like CNBC, right? The information is useful. It can be useful as a business person to see what’s going on in the world, have context about where the economy is heading, what industries are thriving right now, what might be having setbacks. So that information is really powerful for navigating the world in general, but it’s not just investing. You have to separate out investing from navigating the world as an informed individual. It doesn’t sound like an idiot at dinner parties.

32:43 Like, so you know, what’s going on in the world and you have a general sense of the economy. And also as great as an entrepreneur to really know what’s going on. They have great interviews on the channel. They have, you know, good general information, but then they mix that with this advice giving, which is all about short-term trading, buying options and fast money and this and that. And that’s, that’s a sucker’s game.

33:02 It’s just a sucker’s game. And as you said correctly, especially nowadays where the firms on wall street have lightning fast computers that are beating you to the punch with high frequency train, which is legal front running basically, because they won’t outlaw it because they run the regulators. Right. So it’s totally a scam on everybody else who doesn’t have those computers. Right. Because they’re beating you out, they’re getting ahead of you.

33:23 Right. And then also these analysts who are coming up with these buy and sell recommendations, they’re conflicted out all the time. Cause they’re working for companies that take into companies public generally speaking, right? And also they don’t know. They still know like they did. There’s a study.

33:38 I go through the book. It was like in the 1940s, the first one or the thirties or forties, right? Where like in the wake of the great depression, they analyzed every recommendation made by analysts and they didn’t know idea what was going up or down. It was like, no, it was no more than throwing a fricking dot. In fact, Warren Buffett, one of his famous quotes is I’d rather give my money to a blind monkey throwing a dot at the S and B.

33:59 Then to a hedge fund manager. And in fact, he put his money where his mouth was and they did this million dollar bet right back in 2008. He bet the hedge fund industry, which is the biggest scam ever, by the way. So, you know, hedge funds, mutual funds, total fricking scam that the Maddox funds now passive funds, a passive mutual fund that tracks the S and B. Doesn’t try to beat it. Different story. No expenses in there.

34:23 Ultra low expense ratio. That’s what you want to be doing. But these actively managed funds, hedge funds, all mutual funds, right? There it’s like a joke. So when the hedge funds, they have something called a typical two and 20 structure, right?

34:35 Which means they get 20% of your, of the profits each year. Plus a 2% magic fee. But then on the years where the fund loses money, the investors absorb all the losses. They get nothing. They have no losses and then it resets the next year.

34:51 So basically it’s heads. They win tails. You lose. And after you deduct all their fees and expenses, performance bonuses and whatnot, they can’t even get close to beating the S and P 500. That was Buffett’s conjecture back in 2008.

35:08 He said it many times and he made the bet. And someone took the bet. It was a hundred hedge funds. Did it, did it, did it fund the funds? A hundred hedge funds against buffer, just S and P 500 and Vanguard, right? 10 year bet. Who’s going to have the highest return over 10 years. Right. By year seven, it was over.

35:25 The other side threw the towel, the hedge funds. They were getting destroyed by the S and P and that like crystallized this whole point that like managing money, trying to beat the market is a fool’s game. Now there are a few hedge funds. There are a few that do beat the market consistently. Like a Ray Dalio has beaten the market consistently.

35:47 A few others as well. Right. But guess what? They’re not taking your money. Yeah.

35:52 You can’t give them. No, no, no. You can’t give them your money. And any new, new person out there, new, new investment was out there. That starts a fund that just consistently beats the market.

36:03 They close it and give it back to money and use their own and some very wealthy investors. So what happens is this, you have these select few rock stars who literally can beat the market for whatever they’d have a system. They’re brilliant. They have some sort of way of doing it and they do it right. They give everybody else because socks, this step sub par almost also rans and they bask in the afterglow of this illusion of hedge fund brilliance. Right.

36:30 And they use like a Ray Dalio’s reputation and whatnot. And they can’t even beat the S and P, but they still charge the two and 20 and they get still be rich. And the investors get sub par returns. And what does that really mean in the end? It means that when you’re ready to retire, you’re not going to have the money that you should have.

36:48 If you just played it the smart way, follow the advice in the book. And it’s so simple. It’s like a five step program, right? And just follow it at the right type of accounts and the right investment vehicles and just set it for getting, as you said, dollar cost average means don’t worry about where the markets up, down or sideways on any given month. You just keep putting it in and putting money in, saying that, and whatever you could afford and just don’t worry about it and let time do the heavy lifting for you.

37:16 Don’t try to figure it out yourself when to buy, because you’re going to be wrong far more than you’re right. You let time do the heavy lifting and that’s how you secure your retirement, whether you’re wealthy now or not. And I believe, you know, one of the things I like about what you do as well, I do it too, is you also about how do you make more money as an entrepreneur, which is important. You know, you want to make as much money as possible, right? And then you want to take that extra money that you make it, put that to work in the right way. That’s how you get rich.

37:43 Yeah, really well said. And I second the fact, if you’ve got your money in one of these funds, like you don’t see it, but the fees in there, it will just crush you and you’ll get to your retirement and you’ll be like, where is it? Well, it’s gone because they, they just sucked it out of you. And if you’re not savvy, you don’t see it on the front. They all kind of look the same and hedge funds.

38:04 Don’t get me started, Jordan. In the nineties, a couple of my buddies in banking went to work for a hedge fund. Now they were starting to become successful. We were getting to our late twenties. They were starting to make million, $2 million bonuses.

38:14 They went to a hedge fund and my buddy took home like 6 million, then 10 million, then 12 million. And I was like, bro, what are you doing over there? Like you didn’t get any smarter. You weren’t that good of a trader on wall street. And he’s like, this is the greatest racket ever.

38:28 I mean, just ridiculous money. And like you said, a few of the top ones do great, but you’ll never get your money into those. And like you said, they ride off the reputation of others. I think over time that shrunk a little bit from the hay days, but still there’s people out there doing it. And they’re out there doing it and people are still getting killed.

38:47 And by the way, just, you know, and it goes, it goes back like to our belief systems. And here’s the problem. Why do people fall for this stuff? Right? I’ll tell you why.

38:56 It’s really profound. So in life, as, as success oriented individuals, they’re just trying to make your way through the world. We’ve been trained and conditioned to seek out experts to get the best results possible for the various challenges we’re facing. So for example, let’s say you’re, you’re sick. Let’s say your appendix is about to burst, right?

39:15 I would strongly advise you to not do the surgery yourself. We’ll have your wife or your, your friend do it. You know, go find a physician who’s went to school, an expert at performing appendectomies and let him do the surgery. You’ll get to get a far better result by hiring the expert in his field or her field to do it than doing it yourself. So you want to seek out an expert. If you own home and the pipes burst and you’re getting flooded, right? Your carpets, your, your floors, right?

39:43 You probably do a heck of a lot better hiring a plumber, a licensed plumber who’s an expert at fixing pipes, then try to fix your own pipes. I strongly advise you hire the plumber. If you have an electric short hire electrician, don’t try to fix yourself. You’ll probably end up dead. And if you’re in trouble with the law or you’re starting a business and you need to sign contracts, do me a favor, go get yourself a competent lawyer to review the contract.

40:05 Don’t do it yourself because the experts are going to get you a far better result. So in life, in general, everything that we try to do, it makes sense to seek out experts to get the best results possible. Everything except investing. Investing is the one exception to the rule where when you seek out an expert, you get a worse result than you would get on your own because by the nature of the market, the investor, the experts can’t beat the fricking market.

40:32 They can’t beat the S and P 500 on a consistent basis. So after the fees they charge and the performance bonuses, guess what? It gets even worse. So they can’t beat it. Listen, in the Warren Buffett bet, forget the fees. They couldn’t even, they couldn’t even beat the S and P without fees.

40:47 Like Buffett’s conjecture was, listen, after all the fees they charge, they can’t beat the S and B 500. That was his original thesis, right? It proved to be much more professional than the S and P 500. They couldn’t beat the S and P without the fees. So the fit and then they took the fees anyway.

41:02 So it became like, it’s a freak show. In other words, so this is the one exception in life. You do not need to have an expert broker, a money manager, mutual fund hedge. You don’t need them or financial planner for that matter to manage your money. You don’t, you’re far better off doing it yourself.

41:21 Following the advice I give in the book, which is so simple. I’m opening up a few different types of accounts that I, again, you know, the only exception would be a financial planner could make sense for tax planning. If you’re, because based on what country you’re in, if you have more complex tax planning, yes, there’s a, I go through it. There’s a value to that. But if they start to tell you, you should be buying stuff and trading at you have the wrong financial planner. So they’re more like financial facilitators, but when it comes to investments, picking the right investment, you’re going to be far better off doing it.

41:51 So if you’re going to be buying investments, picking the right investment, you’re going to be far better served going after the S and P 500 and a couple other investments as well to balance things out. Then you would ever do by trying to pick individual stocks or time, the market. It’s, you’re not immediately get close and you’ll feel it down the row when you’re ready to retire. So start now, don’t, don’t start in 10 years. Start today is the time to start.

42:15 Yeah, I totally agree. Um, I love this book. Everyone needs to grab a copy and whether you’re young or old, anybody who spent decades on wall street knows this stuff is true. It’s such common knowledge that you’re the first guy to write it down. But also Jordan, I mean, people, people believe you because you’ve seen the inside, you’ve seen the ends, you’ve seen the outs.

42:33 And so when you come out and call this stuff as it is, it gets people noticed as opposed to some guy who’s, you know, been in the mutual fund business for decades saying it doesn’t have as much, as much gravity. So I appreciate you saying that. You know, when I look at crypto, it’s like kind of a version of what you’re talking about here. And crypto, everyone’s trying to get you to buy the new coin and ape in here and ape in there when it’s like, why don’t you take a step back, put a small percentage in the blue chips and again, just have these, don’t play that game. Um, and just slow down. And so when I looked at crypto, I looked at an extreme version of what’s wrong with the stock market.

43:09 That’s really what I saw. Let me, let me give you a crypto version of this book, right? Because, you know, it was, you know, I wrote a system in this book and it’s a system of investing that was the most responsible thing for the masses that this is like, this is the most surefire way to secure your financial future. That being said, if you love crypto, and if you really love and believe in it wholeheartedly, the equivalent of the S&P 500 would be Bitcoin.

43:38 Like the crypto equivalent of the S&P 500 would be Bitcoin and maybe some Ethereum as well in there as well, right? I own those. I own Bitcoin and Ethereum, I’ve never sold them. Right? So like, if you, if you love, I know you have a lot of the people like crypto and there’s nothing wrong with that, right?

43:57 But you need to be very careful in terms of like, you know, there’s legitimate crypto and then there’s all the bullshit and scams out there that we all watched happen in the bubble, you know, before burst and, you know, with Terra Luna being the ultimate scam of all right. Even I think worse in some level than, than FTX, although Terra Luna was more elegant. Like FTX is the oldest hustle in the world. Let’s open up a firm and back all the money out the side.

44:21 That’s like just the oldest. I mean, it’s an oldest scam ever. We’re just going to take the money out of your account. And that’s it. That’s like a pure thievery, right?

44:28 Terra Luna was more like, we’re going to outsmart you. We’re just thinking something safe that’s not safe. And that was a suitability issue. Like I guess there was nothing wrong with Terra Luna says that they should say it’s a wildly speculative investment. And you probably lose all your money, but hey, give it a shot.

44:41 You can make 20% but there’s going to be massive risk involved. Then it would probably be legit, right? So I think they’re a little different buckets there, but you know, when I look at Bitcoin, I like Bitcoin. I really believe in Bitcoin and I had to, you know, almost ratchet my belief back for this book a bit. Cause I thought it was responsible thing to do because I’m not a thousand percent.

45:05 So I don’t know, you know what I’m saying? Well, I know that history, like what I lay out in the book is so historically proven and so good for everybody, right? But I love Bitcoin. You know what I’m saying? So for those of you who really believe it, there’s nothing wrong with going, you know, maybe from 5% to 10% of your portfolio.

45:22 If you want to do it like in Bitcoin, but I would look at Bitcoin as like the S and P of crypto and then kind of maybe Ethereum is like the NASDAQ, like the NASDAQ index right below that. But then I don’t know. I have a problem. You know, unless you’re getting it early at the VC stage of, I believe the time to get into this crypto stuff and you’re going to do it and speculate and you can make good money is, is you got to get in early on the right deals and you have to get in before you do not want to be buying tokens and coins in the aftermarket.

45:55 I think that is the ultimate suckers game. So, and I think, and I know that you actually do have a fund that, that does these early stage, these VC deals. So that I think is, you know, when you’re going to speculate, that’s, I think is, that’s what I call healthy speculation. And by the way, most of them are going to work out because that’s, that’s your capital. A lot of them are going to go bankrupt and that’s okay.

46:15 They, they, they better, or else you’re not doing it right. If, if all 10 work, you made a mistake because then you’re not going to have one and you had all these average deals are just trucking along. The idea with VC is that you can have one massive winner, maybe two that are going to do okay. And then seven bustouts that are probably amount to nothing. Now in crypto, especially back in when it was hot, it was great because even the ones that kind of sucked, you got out of, because it was instant liquidity pretty quick.

46:40 So there’s some advantage to crypto VC. If you really know what you’re doing, crypto VC, you could do pretty well at it, right? But again, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s still speculative and you need to have the bulk of your money, your safe money, your long-term money invested the way I say in the book. And that’s how I think you could have the best of both worlds. Because I’m not a crypto bear at all.

46:59 I love Bitcoin. I think it’s going higher. Yeah. I just don’t know when. I don’t know if it’s that, I don’t know tomorrow.

47:04 I just think it’s going higher over 10 years, you know? Yeah. And we’ve always called, I think you, you as well, I’ve always called kind of the blue chip cryptos, Bitcoin and Ethereum. Bitcoin is more digital gold. Ethereum is more kind of a digital technology play.

47:16 Those are the ones that are the biggest market caps that have tried and true real functional utility and they aren’t going anywhere. I mean, Bitcoin’s definitely not going anywhere. I mean, the ETF is going to be approved. There’s money coming in there. It’s really being eyed up by the right dallios of the world because it’s an uncorrelated financial asset.

47:33 And that’s what those guys love because it makes great returns over time. And yeah, for us, you know, we’ve invested early stage in about 15 deals. And so we’ve taken this bear market to hold out where there’s not much capital out there and we wait for the best deals. We only invest in deals where the round’s actually closed. So I already know they’ve raised four, five, six, seven million dollars in a bear market from some of the top players.

47:56 And then we swoop in at the end and take a small piece and then get the CEO on the show for London Real. And that way we have our own value add in them. Then we get a short. Yeah. And then like you said, I don’t I agree.

48:08 I don’t believe in buying tokens on exchanges that are over, you know, a hundred of the top market caps. That’s a fool’s game. What we’re doing is trying to play that venture game. So when those tokens do generate, like you said, a few of those are going to win big. A few of those are going to lose completely.

48:24 But some of them will come flat and that’s a great game. So again, hold. But all of this is still a small percentage of your portfolio. If you’re a younger person, maybe it goes to 10. And then if you’re an older person that goes down to five.

48:37 But I’ll also be your kind of speculative stuff you can do on the side. For the other stuff, I’d say listen to what Jordan’s saying and really keep it into this dollar cost average high return that’ll compound over time. And then you’re set and use the rest of your bandwidth being an entrepreneur. Right. That’s I think it’s like the second.

48:56 I think it’s the second to last chapter. One second is the second to last chapter. Right. I go through like how you actually based on your own like personality type, how much money you’re making, what your financial goals are. It’s the second to last chapter. Right.

49:09 How you actually build your right portfolio because it depends because you know, there’s something called the sleep test, right? The sleep test is like, you know, can you sleep at night with your portfolio? Because there’s some of this that you can go full on and all in stocks, or S&P and, and that’s going to be your highest return over time. But the problem with that is it is going to be some years or two or three years straight, maybe even in worst case scenario, right?

49:33 Where you have some losses in there and you have to be able to stomach some losses. Now, eventually those losses get made up over time. Historically, they always do. And over a 10 year period, especially over 15, 20, you always hit that average, right? Just historically improving, right? Um, but you know, again, you can go, as you said, it’s true.

49:52 You can go higher on the speculative front based on a few things. Number one, what’s your personality type? Do you know, do you like taking risks? Are you able to sleep at night? And also how much money do you make? The more money you make, well, guess what? The more you can afford to speculate because any losses that you make, you can make up with your income, right?

50:09 So I’m, I’m always fortunate that I have a high income. So if I screw up, all right, next month, I’ll just spend a little bit less and I’m back to even again. Right. So there is, there is some wiggle room with how you add this sort of portfolio that’s perfect for you, but it’s always going to be dominated by like the tried and true formula of having the S and P 500 in a tax, hopefully as many of the, and much of it in tax free accounts as possible. And just let the compounding just kick ass for you over the longterm.

50:40 So what do you think the average age of your viewers are? If you had to take a guess 30 of them, they’re all over the place. I think 35 is the average age. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

50:48 That’s like perfectly amazing for this. Cause number one, people living longer than ever, right? Starting in your thirties, but at the time you’re really ready to retire. You’re like so set from this strategy in this book. You’re so, you’re set. Okay. And if you’re not going to be set, cause everything backfires and the world blows up. Well, you have bigger problems. And then you said, the world is like an ashes, like, you know, um, with our children of men, you will be through the ashes of post apocalyptic world. Right. So I would like to say, I don’t think I would worry about that. But I, I strongly don’t think I, I doubt that’s going to happen as screwed up as the world is right now.

51:20 Um, you know, I, you know, the world is resilient, you know? So I’m pretty bullish on it. Are you bullish on crypto? I mean, Bitcoin, like you said, has doubled off the lows. There’s this talk of the ETF.

51:31 There’s been a big kind of rally in all coins lately. I mean, I go to all the conferences around the world and there’s a lot of people building, building, building. I think 10 years from now, 20 years from now, it’s going to be a huge part of our daily lives, our blockchain transactions. You know, what do you think? Because, you know, you’ve been involved in this space.

51:50 We used to share deal flow back in the day. I mean, you’re really well versed in this space. What do you think? Yeah. So here’s what I think.

51:57 I think that number one, I think Bitcoin, I’m absolutely bullish on Bitcoin. I really believe if you have to ask me, where’s it going to be in 10 years? I think it’s going to be substantially, substantially higher. Do I know that for sure? No, I could be wrong, but that’s my belief.

52:16 You know, and that’s why I’m long and I’m not, I never sold it. I’m not going to sell any, right? In terms of everything else out there, including Ethereum, right? The only problem I have with this stuff is like, I’m like, what’s the use case? Like, what does finding the right use cases now?

52:37 From a US perspective and even a UK perspective, by the way, right? You know, we have very functional banking systems and credit markets, right? So, you know, it’s sort of like, it seems like, well, why would you need something like this? But when I go to Argentina, my wife’s Argentina, right? Or into other parts of the world, Asia, well, guess what?

52:57 Suddenly things like stable coins, they’re doing transactions and moving money around and stuff like that on the blockchain becomes very elegant and it has a major use case, right? What I haven’t seen is really, you know, there’s some like a lot of deals that say, oh, we’re going to put music on the blockchain and like make buying music. And I saw all these things and like, and sometimes like decentralization is not an advantage. Like decentralization is a disadvantage.

53:26 The main advantage of decentralization is that you have a trustless system without people, you know, human beings to screw the whole thing up, right? And like manipulate it. And so like when it comes to like capital, printing money, the reason Bitcoin is such an advantage because it eliminates that corruption of printing extra Bitcoins. That’s why it’s so great. That’s why that trumps any downside of decentralization, meaning that it’s a bit more difficult, like it’s more expensive to do a transaction.

53:53 It’s a bit slower, right? And it is still, at least still is, right? But it’s worth it because of the inability to corrupt it. Right? So I think we’re going to find, I haven’t seen that many great use cases for crypto where it really gives you an edge. Like the question is, what is the edge for using the blockchain versus something else?

54:16 Like I can we saw with NFTs, right? Like it was just a joke, right? Which is why I never launched any NFTs. Like I bought some myself and I was asked to launch 10,000 wolves. I could have probably made $30 million doing that.

54:28 And I got close to the lines and you know, I’m just not going to do it because I, I know it’s going to happen. I’ll make 30 million and everyone’s going to lose their money. And I’m going to, I don’t want that shit in my life. I don’t want people to hate me and be angry at me. Right.

54:38 And we sort of have all these different NFT launches. They’re all basically worthless now. Pretty much all of them, right? But that doesn’t mean that NFTs don’t have a use case. So like the idea of digital authentication of like titles and real estate.

54:53 So, so it’s all about the use cases. So I think the deals that are going to do well is where is, is not so much about the technology itself. It’s going to be like where the technology allows an industry to function more fluidly without corruption. So I’m all for looking at those types of deals. I haven’t seen many, you know, which is why I right now invest in Bitcoin and Ethereum and nothing else.

55:16 I mean, I have DC deals and some stuff that I had them just holding and who knows what’s going to happen with them. But generally speaking, that’s, that’s my thoughts. Now, I think there’s a major play in, in, in stable coins with like, you know, having a way to transact business. So if you can transact business in stable coins, I don’t think people could ever use Bitcoin to pay for like, you know, a car and a milk or something. That’s what it’s for. Right.

55:42 But stable coins, right on the blockchain and you could eliminate these as two and a half percent fees. It had no chargebacks and clawbacks, which is a disaster for many merchants. I think that’s a very elegant use case. So I’m hoping that, you know, over time, that really becomes prevalent around the world. We are actually using crypto to pay for in commerce every single day.

56:05 And I think that is, it could, when that code gets really cracked and I don’t mean like with visas, we’ll take crypto because they’re just transferred, transferred to Fiat and back and you’re not really accomplishing anything, but I mean a truly, you know, ex banking system way of really paying for stuff around the world. I think that’s going to be big. You know, one of the things you made me aware of, I think a year ago, two years ago, Jordan, which was interesting is that you saw a bunch of these people in the states and maybe they’ll, they’ll remain nameless, but they were issuing NFTs that look like stock and they were issuing tokens.

56:38 And you, the wolf of wall street said, these guys are going to be answering to the sec and you guys are going to watch this happen. And nobody was saying that at the time, except for you and you were right. The sec came knocking on the door and I don’t agree with most things they do, but some of these things were really pushing it. Were you surprised that that happened or did you know that some of these things were really pushing the line when it came to using crypto to do things they shouldn’t have even been doing with stocks?

57:07 I think that’s just, by the way, I think that I’ll just qualify that as I think there’s a lot more to happen. The sec moves slowly. And I think there’s a lot of people out there that made a lot of money selling NFTs that have not gotten trouble yet that deserve to get, I don’t think he deserves to go to jail, but they certainly deserve to give back all their profits that they made off of selling NFTs that were freaking worthless, literally worthless and NFTs aren’t that you never consider on some people made tens more millions of dollars off it.

57:38 It baffles me that they haven’t gotten called out yet on it by the regulators because it just was a complete not a scam. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. There’s too many to name names for this. We know who the big ones were, right?

57:49 And they did it. Some got in trouble. Most still haven’t, but I don’t think that game is over yet. I think there is a three year statute limitations and a lot of it’s continuing. So because they continue to trade, it’s a continued fraud.

58:01 So there’s no end to the statute of limitations because they’re still existing and being traded every single day. So at any given time, I think the SEC can bring more cases on the NFT front. But that doesn’t mean NFTs are bad, but like that initial use case was a joke. And the level of delusion was so extreme. I remember like it was two or three years ago, our Basil here in Miami, right?

58:25 When crypto was like, it was NFTs were having their heyday was NFTs, everything NFT, Miami, NFT, New York, right? And they would say, Oh, in the next year, there’ll be no more, there’ll be no more legitimate artwork. It’s only going to be NFTs. And that like, the complete precluded that, like, you know, what art’s really about, which is the greatest money wondering scheme ever. It’s the only legit money wonder scheme left to the great rich people.

58:47 My art is never going away because they use it to move money around the world. But like, and plus art is like, you know, there’s a emotion as an I own some more and I love it. I put it on my wall of passion about it, right? But people get really delusional about this stuff. Like that’s scribble Scrabble, like is going to be worth just, you know, for millions of dollars. I don’t get it. Like, what was it?

59:08 There’s ether rocks. I mean, I can’t, it was just bizarre. It was almost like, you know, people like made money in Ethereum and needed something to do with the money to make it more, see more real. So they just let’s get virtual art and make that more real. Right.

59:19 And then all the people, you know, who are like the last on the deal team suckers bought in, in the open market and bid the price of them and got destroyed. Right. So it was very sad. So, but I saw that coming. And again, I was approached more times that I can count to launch 10,000 wolves.

59:36 And I went very far along cause I said, okay, let’s, let’s do this. And you know, the economics were unbelievable. I would have made at least 20, 30 million on the launch and then more as a trade. Right. But as I kept getting to the finish line, I’m like, like, this is going to really end badly.

59:51 Like this is not going to add, this is the way this could hold their value. It’s impossible. Cause there’s no value. What is it? A fricking wolf. So one wolf’s got two horns and one wolf’s got magnifying eyes and one’s got a laser beam out of his asshole.

1:00:03 I mean, how the fuck is that going to give you value over the long term? Oh, let’s attach some. Well, you could make it so they get a free, um, come to a seminar. I’m like, oh, that’s like shoving a square peg in a round hole, trying to attach fictitious value. If you do this, you can then attend an event for the next two years. It’s all bullshit.

1:00:19 So, so what you do is take an event that costs a hundred dollars and you can get $10,000 for that same ticket. So it was inflating the value of your event by making people hype the NFTs. So you essentially inflated your ticket prices to your event. So we will try to tie value with events and, and, and zoom calls and private yacht trips. I mean, all this, it was like the same thing that happened.

1:00:38 You remember with the barter business, but back in like the eighties and nineties of barter coupons and you get these coupons to like restaurants and like, you know, and you could get a great restaurant, like a Indian restaurant in Manhattan, you know, and the Coke was $47 with the barter coupons. Because like, that’s what’s like the value of the fake to make it work. So like you get a great restaurant, it’s $800 for dinner, but you get it for free. So like you use $800 worth of coupons. It’s insane. So, you know, it’s the same thing all over again. Human beings, you know, we fall to these speculative bubbles. We do it.

1:01:09 So human nature and we chase things when they’re on the way up, which is the worst time to buy them, right? And we sell them when they’re on the way down because we’re worried. We’re scared. And, and that’s exact opposite of what you should do. And, you know, I say this in the book.

1:01:21 It’s a line I steal from Warren Buffett and I quote him in the book. You want to be greedy when other people are being fearful and you want to be fearful when other people are being greedy. That’s some of the best advice I can give anybody that and bulls make money, bears make money and pigs get slaughtered. Those two things together is kind of like, you know, the, the ultimate sage investment advice. And the way you get around all of that is by following this program.

1:01:44 It’s five steps in the book of how you put together a portfolio. That’s like just, you know, mathematically, it’s a proven tab results over the longterm and not small results, big results. I love it. And yeah, as humans, we are not designed to be good traders. What we do is we buy high and we sell low and we get caught up in hype.

1:02:06 And so the idea is to get a system with discipline that takes out your human side because you’re going to make all the wrong choices. And when you got an industry like wall street dialing up your emotions here and there, it just all goes wrong. So I appreciate the book. I want to get your take on a couple of things in America. What’s going on with these elections?

1:02:24 What’s going to happen a year from now? What’s the wolves take on, on, on that whole thing in the next 12 months? So I think last night, we saw something really odd happen where, you know, Democrats won certain like local elections, the state of Virginia and whatnot. Right. Um, and I was thinking long and hard about this cause you know, I just, I am so dumb with the democratic party.

1:02:46 I honestly think it’s so utterly corrupt. Uh, it’s so toxic for the country. The left is so toxic what they’re doing with identity politics. Um, it’s just awful. It’s going to destroy this.

1:02:59 It’s going to destroy the country. It really is. And it’s already starting to erode the actual, you know, the identity of the country’s being eroded very quickly. Right. The problem is, is I think the Republicans made a terrible, terrible decision with abortion, just a terrible, terrible decision.

1:03:15 And I think what’s happening right now is people are being emotionally driven by this issue of abortion rights. And rightfully so. I, I, not that I’m pro-abortion. I don’t think you could be pro-abortion. Like I didn’t go go abortion. No, but I think women, you know, should have the right to choose to up to a certain point, right?

1:03:31 Very early on, I believe it’s my belief. And I think most logical people, I think even the left except for the crazies, like what happens if the crazies on the right who say a woman, even if she’s raped by someone, she’d never be able to have an abortion cause that’s God’s creation. That’s the ultra right, you know, Christian conservatives, right? Then you have people on the left saying nine months, the mom should be on the table. You could still kill the baby because it’s the mother’s property.

1:03:53 Right. That’s like the fringe crazies, right? I think 80%, 90% of America agrees that there should be some abortion ability for women, but it should be controlled and not late stage. Like after the first trimester, it should become really about if it’s danger to the mother or what. I think most people would fall there.

1:04:12 The vast majority of people that needs to become legislation in the United States, because what’s happening right now is the left is winning elections based on abortion. People are so emotional about this and so fearful of losing abortion rights that they go out and they vote. And it’s caused people to go out and vote in the right. Doesn’t have that passion. So the left has emotional issues driving them.

1:04:32 The rights got logical. Everyone knows the right. Just put, if you think that the left is right for the economy, then you’re just fucking blind. Okay. You know, where you’re looking to stay on the door, you want the handout, right?

1:04:42 But the problem is, is that the right is focusing on logic and the left focuses on emotion, climate change and abortion. There’s two big things. There’s existential threat to the world because of climate change and women are going to be, you know, slaves to their bodies because the rights get to take away your rights. Right. And those issues are driving the left to win elections, which I think is terrible for the country.

1:05:03 So I, and I don’t know what to do with it. I don’t know what the rights can do because like there’s this Christian coalition. There’s so much power in the United States and they, they’ve literally, they’ve, you know, the Supreme court reversed Roe V. Wade. Now it didn’t make abortions illegal.

1:05:19 It made it a state’s issue, but there was such a trigger for the left that I don’t know what’s going to happen. So like, for example, I would think that right now anybody with a brain would vote for the right, for the president would not vote for Biden again. He’s the worst president ever word word, all these different wars, the economies in the, in the crapper inflation, sky high historically speaking, right? But what it was, and you could hate Trump cause he’s mean.

1:05:42 He put out bad tweets, but the country was in far better shape when Trump was the president, far better shape, right? And he’s fact is leading in the polls right now in all the swing states. He’s, he’s pulling far ahead. Even as they’re attacking him, try to throw him in jail, which is utterly ridiculous and toxic for the country as well. Right.

1:05:59 So assuming Trump becomes, is going to be the nominee again. And assuming Biden doesn’t, you know, vote completely senile, senile right now, but maybe he’ll lose the power of speech before and have to drop out. Right. But he’s, you know, Obama’s a hologram. He’s just like, he’s like a cutout for Obama and the crew.

1:06:14 So like, you know, when they were choosing the who should run, like we need to find someone so stupid, so pliable, you know, so corrupt that we could just control him. Ah, Joe Biden, perfect guy. You know, Joe Biden was a party joke. When I was a kid in college, Joe Biden tried to run for president. We had to leave the election cause he plagiarized one of the Brit, who was the guy he played? She played rise to famous Brit.

1:06:36 What was the name of the guy? I forgot, but I remember that story. Yeah. All right. And he got put flying three times blatant liar.

1:06:42 And the guy never stopped lying since then. There’s enough evidence right now. So with all these payoffs, he’s getting from, you know, barisma in Ukraine, from the Chinese government, right? There was sign. And now they found checkstone to Joe Biden.

1:06:54 If this was Trump or anyone on the right, the New York times that we’re screaming from the freaking hilltops, impeachment, impeachment, impeachment, impeachment, the FBI be breaking down the doors to indict him. But no, the corruption runs so deep in the United States that he’s just the president and everyone knows he’s corrupt to shit. Now in the polls, he’s losing right now, but I wonder if they have to see what happened just yesterday. You know, if these issues, when it comes down to it with abortion and climate change, you know, if these emotional issues are going to drive more Democrats to the polls and you know, I, I fear for the country four more years of Joe Biden.

1:07:29 I don’t think that’s what I still think the S people, hundreds going to do well, because those are 500 biggest companies and they kind of control everything anyway. They control them with their lobbyists, right? They protect themselves, the pharmaceutical companies, the energy companies, they protected, right? So I think that, you know, again, take this. Let’s extract out the stock market for a second.

1:07:47 I think the S people do well anyway, right? But I think the country is itself is in deep shit right now. And I think it’s going to get a lot worse if Joe Biden or a Democrat gets a second term. I fear for the country, not that it will disappear, but I fear for just like, it makes it just so much worse. That’s my two cents.

1:08:05 No, I appreciate your two cents. And even though Trump is leading the polls, like when it comes down to election day, I don’t believe the elections are necessarily fair and I don’t know how many ballots are going to be sent out. And that’s just a huge wildcard at the end of the day. And so you just don’t know what’s going to happen. You know, speaking of kind of woke and some of the leftists there, a lot of them want to censor free speech.

1:08:26 You know, we’ve had our issues in the past and we’ve also seen Elon paying 44 billion for Twitter. And he seems to have really given that platform completely new legs. He was on the Joe Rogan experience last week and Joe thanked him. And Elon said, look, Twitter was exporting a mind virus to the world, which was basically the thinking of not even Silicon Valley. It was like Elon described it as a 10 as a 10 mile radius group of super left San Franciscans, by the way, who are turning their city into literally a zombie apocalypse.

1:09:00 Apparently if you go there and they were exporting that to the world. I mean, we felt that with YouTube. Everybody felt that we’ve seen the Twitter files. Elon now has really turned it around and in many ways probably changed the dialogue of the world, the dialogue and people’s work in people’s workplaces, even the things that people are allowed to say is probably different because he bought that platform. What’s your take on Elon free speech?

1:09:24 The whole thing. I think he’s single handedly might’ve saved free speech, by the way. And he was so critical what he did. I can’t believe the balls. This guy has you said, I mean that in a good way.

1:09:36 These guys got brass balls, gigantic kahunas, right? And it was incredible. But to like run the precipice, I felt like there was a bit of some I got sanctioned on Facebook and YouTube and throttle. I actually lost my Facebook account. But like, I don’t know how.

1:09:53 I got hacked by someone apparently and they shut my page down and I’m still trying to get it out like two weeks ago. I’m still trying to get it back from Facebook and they’re investigating it. Yes, someone hacked you. We’re working on it. But you know, they don’t do anything very quickly at Facebook.

1:10:05 Right? So which is I got my Instagram. So but like I lost a couple of million followers and I don’t know what happens to which still trying to get to the bottom of it. Right. But you know, in terms of this, this woke mind virus, it goes deeper.

1:10:18 Yes, it was a Twitter, but like they have infiltrated the educational institutions of America. There’s a real serious problem at colleges and universities and junior high schools and high schools. I mean, it is really fucked up in a bit of the capital F right now. So this is I think is bigger threat is anything is there spitting out generation of radicals that make no mistake at the end of the day, this is not about even like oppressed versus oppressor. They want to overthrow the fucking government.

1:10:49 They want to throw overthrow that entire way of life. They want to end and like, you know, why they so pro Palestine is insane what they’re doing right now, like these these colleges, they’re teaching kids radical thinking like the people like gays for gays for Hamas. Really? You’re gay. Go go there.

1:11:10 Don’t murder you. Don’t kill you. It’s like a death penalty to being gay. You’re women women women’s lip. What the fuck?

1:11:19 I mean, it’s so insane that people are protesting about stuff that is violently against their own self-interest. If they were there, they’d be persecuted and killed. And yet they’re out with marching for that. It’s just completely insane. This is what’s being taught in America at the universities and probably around the world as well in many different places as well.

1:11:42 I know those issues in Oxford like that, right? I don’t know if it’s bad, but I spoke at Oxford. Your kids are great, but like, you know, they’re great with me. And I speak about success and finance, but there’s this weird. This is undercurrent.

1:11:52 It starts with like this, this national guilt because we were once colonizers that we now have to be guilty and give back and do all this stuff. I didn’t fucking kind of wise anybody. All right. Listen, you know, in order to my children, nor did my parents. Okay.

1:12:06 So, you know, we live in a cruel world. Okay. With a cruel history that goes back thousands of years. And for some reason, like it’s this infiltration of radical socialists and this sort of anarchanistic agenda that is taking over our universities. That’s equally dangerous.

1:12:23 What’s going on at Twitter? It’s what was going on Twitter. It’s scary to watch. I mean, I know your daughter went to school university mind as well, and she comes back and she’s telling me about this Marxism and communism. And I’m like, are they serious?

1:12:36 They really believe it. And she’s like, yeah, they really believe it. And I can’t say anything against the agenda or I get canceled. And, you know, Harvard was ranked as like a zero out of a hundred for freedom of speech score. And now you’ve got people writing letters to the campus saying, how can you suppress these opinions?

1:12:55 How can you allow, you know, blatant kind of racism to go on here? And it’s like the institutions we used to cherish the places where I went to school, it was where you could talk about ideas now have been converted into something that’s anti-American, anti-capitalism. And it’s scary as hell. I don’t think I’m going to be sending my sons to university, which is a shame because I had an amazing time at university. It was a great time to learn and get exposed to different things.

1:13:21 But I wasn’t trying to be, you know, converted. I wasn’t trying to be brainwashed to any specific, you know, frame of mind, you know, they still have complete freedom of speech. Provide that your speech agrees with their agenda. Yeah, it’s freedom to speak out. If you agree with them, if you don’t agree with them, you can’t speak or else you’ll be thrown out, ostracized, canceled, so to speak.

1:13:43 Right. And I think that, you know, there is certainly this hidden hand and, you know, I’m not a conspiracy guy. I don’t live in the conspiracy world like that, but this can’t all be happening by accident. There is certainly an agenda here to create division to so discontent among because if you keep people fighting with each other and hating each other, then no one looks at the people who will make it all the money from it. You always look, you know, the FBI agenda indicted me.

1:14:11 Great guys, a friend of mine now. Right. And he’s been in my podcast. He’s a really smart guy. He says the secret to uncovering any crime is just follow the money.

1:14:21 Follow the money. It always gets you to the people who are behind it. So who profits, who benefits financially, who gains more power by selling this division? Gains more power. Right.

1:14:35 Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, you know, but there’s certainly a group out there, right? The world economic forum. Yeah.

1:14:41 Look what happened. Look, look what happened when, you know, they did the lockdowns. What happened? Power was transferred to the richest companies. The richest companies thrived and hit market caps and profitability that they’ve never had before.

1:14:54 And all the small mom and pops competitor couldn’t compete. Yeah. They couldn’t compete. So you, I remember, I remember the insanity when like I only could go shopping at Costco. Right. Or like, oh, one of these big suit mark that I couldn’t go to a local store.

1:15:10 They weren’t allowed to stay open because they were considered. It was too dangerous. But yeah, you can go to a big, you know, a place or like a Costco or a Walmart. They could be open. They could, they could make money still. Right.

1:15:22 Amazon could deliver all your stuff to your door. They could carry everything. Right. And it was like, how is this, how am I living through this? How is this possible? How is this allowed?

1:15:32 And the fact that it turned out to be a complete fucking scam, which I called it, I was screaming it from the hilltops and got in trouble for it, by the way, not as much trouble as you, but I got in trouble too. Okay. You led the charge and I respect you immensely for that. But I was saying it, I got these lockdowns in the dumbest thing ever. I’m like, okay, lock down the old people and feed them champagne and caviar.

1:15:53 Like there’s a group of people that really are, they are a risk that are certain age with comorbidities, right? Those people need to be protected from this because we don’t, it seems to be very dangerous for very small group people, but everyone else got to fuck out there. It’s going to work. And like, you can’t, you can put the amount of wealth that was lost through the lockdown. You could have supported the people that were really at risk in grand style forever.

1:16:14 And I don’t even think we’ve seen the full ramification. So all the, in the inflation is part of it, by the way, but also the kids that we, we, we, we, we developmentally delayed. Remember like trying to like, I refuse to wear a fucking mask. I moved out of LA because I would, I could not stay there and wear a mess. I want to go to a store. You had a bit, no, I’m not putting a mask on.

1:16:33 Are you kidding me? It’s like, it’s like trying to protect the bullet through a fucking chain link fence. Are you kidding me? Like, are you kidding me? And then you see studies by the way, it turns out that they knew that mass don’t work. Like your studies out, like there’s studies out there.

1:16:46 Let’s say masks don’t work. And, and this asshole, right? Fousy is like, no, he saw the studies. He’s like, well, you know, we just wanted people to, why? So we couldn’t see each other’s facial expressions.

1:16:59 So look, he’d go, go, she’d go, Robert, don’t you, man? The whole thing was so crazy. And then, you know, and where does it end up in anarchy in the streets? Then there was the riots after like the black lives matter stuff. And that’s suddenly there’s like, they can gather in the streets to riot because that’s okay.

1:17:15 And then you can see the, the, the, the, the police are not going to try to stop. And then you can see, they’re going to try and stop. The police are going to try and stop the riot because that’s okay. Cause COVID is not going to affect people in a riot. COVID stays away from, right?

1:17:28 Go over to skate of riots. You know, The whole thing was, right. The whole thing was so fricking crazy. And then the vaccine that was not a vaccine. I mean, come on, like, I mean, like it’s always, you couldn’t, if you wrote, if you wrote a fictional.

1:17:39 You know, movie about this, right? And it didn’t happen. People’s like, come on. There’s no one’s going to believe this stuff. Like, you know, they don’t write.

1:17:45 That’s not believable. And you know, like, we were kind of the tip of the spear when it came to the censorship online, when it came to talking about that stuff. And you were one of the first people to have me on your show when we were getting canceled from YouTube. And we had this new documentary film out called We Will Not Be Silence that kind of chronicles all of this. And then kind of goes in deep on the end.

1:18:08 Look, I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I leave that to my guests. But at the end of the day, I think they do want us divided because when we’re divided, we fight amongst each other and it’s easy to control us. And when we’re in fear, it’s easy to control us. And so we saw that all play out really well over the last three years.

1:18:23 Even today, look at all the things that everyone’s divided in the world, whether you’re brown or white or black or left or right, or you’re this religion or that religion. It’s just keep them fighting. And then the people at the top can just laugh all the way to the bank and laugh all the way to the power structures. And so, yeah, this is a lesson, but everybody individually can choose not to participate in that. Again, it’s a bit like your book.

1:18:46 That’s a rigged game. You can step back and not get emotionally involved in their game and make some better decisions. But yeah, I wanna thank you for having me on. I’m sorry. No, thanks for having me on.

1:18:59 Sorry, I still wonder why like Google, so much bought into that. Like what was that? I got this whole mask wearing thing. I really never got it. Like to this day, why they were so like, you know, to the government, yes, pal.

1:19:15 I still don’t get that. I mean, maybe they legitimately believed it. I mean, I don’t know. Like, cause I don’t see what the upside would be to Google, like YouTube. Like I don’t get, I guess something, I don’t know.

1:19:26 One day we’ll figure that out, I think. I mean, obviously, you know, if you listen to Bobby Kennedy, we all know that like cable television, 70, 80% of the revenue is from pharma. With Google, it’s not as obvious, right? But again, one day we’ll probably really understand this. And there is this whole medical, industrial, government, you know, complex that all- Like the Wall Street Feed machine.

1:19:49 Like I told the Wall Street Feed Machine complex, you have the medical industry Feed Machine complex, the same thing, right? There you go. That’s what it is. And they’re all invested in a certain outcome. And so they all profit from that outcome.

1:20:00 And we were on the cutting edge of that. We still are. If you say something against what the World Health Organization does, then you will be taking off these huge technology platforms. And that group, the WHO, has pretty much been proven to be run by Gates and is massively corrupt and is totally controlled by people that have financial interests and vaccines and all these other things. So don’t get me started.

1:20:21 But yeah, maybe that should be your next book. How do people get a hold of this book? It’s called The Wolf of Investing. How can people get it? What’s the next steps?

1:20:29 It’s an amazing work. Congratulations. Thanks. Yeah, and I really, I really believe everyone should read this book. It’ll be the best investment you ever made because it’s a very small investment.

1:20:39 It’s like $20 for a book these days, right? Whatever it is. You can get it on Amazon, where it’s the number one best seller involved investing. And you can get it in local bookstores. You can get it anywhere online.

1:20:50 But I think, you know, the easy, if you have an Amazon account, it’s just simple to click the button and it rides your house the next day. Or you can actually get the Audible version, which you can listen to right away. And I think it’s a lot of people who will change your life. I really will. Because I think it’s gonna, well, let’s just say that it will change your life.

1:21:05 You might not feel it today, but you’ll be thanking me in a bunch of years from now, when you really retire even before that. And you see you have so much money sitting in a account that’s gonna just, you know, allow you to live the life that you deserve. So, and I think if you don’t read the book and just keep doing what you’re doing, you’ll probably get the same result you’ve been getting. And I really think that it behooves everybody to educate yourself. And also the book is funny as hell.

1:21:28 I mean, it’s right. I wrote it in the same voice as the Wolf of Wall Street. It’s irreverently funny. And you get a great history of Wall Street. And why it is the way it is, why it’s all fucked up.

1:21:37 And how to beat them at their own game. That’s the goal. You beat Wall Street at their own game in five simple steps. And that should be satisfaction enough. And look, I’ve been there when you’re 30, you never think you’re gonna be in your 50s.

1:21:49 Now that I’ve been in my 50s, I look back at my 30 year old self and I just wish he would have taken some of the advice here because it’ll come around sooner than you want. And if you don’t have that compounding working for you, you’ll look in and you’ll say, is that it? And so like you said, the best way to beat Wall Street at their own game is not to play their game, but to play your game based on some of the things they provide. So thanks, Jordan. You’re super helpful.

1:22:13 I’m so glad you wrote this book. And thank you, man. And congrats on the number one best seller. My pleasure. And finance on Amazon.

1:22:20 So grab this thing. Let’s do this again soon. Next time you’re coming through London and wishing you all the best. I know you got all sorts of great plans in the future. Oh, before we go, you gotta tell me about the Wolf of Wall Street, the musical.

1:22:33 Give me one minute on what’s happening with that. So this has been like something I’ve been working on for a while. In fact, before the pandemic, I’d been speaking to some really big players in Broadway. And it came this close. And then the pandemic hit and Broadway shut down.

1:22:49 So I started revisiting those conversations in the last six months. And finally came, met someone who’s a huge producer director, who’s had, and I want to say the name yet, because it’s not part of great massive shows, it’s huge multi billion dollar hits on Broadway. And we’re gonna start the process. It’s a long process. It’ll take a few years of turning this into a Broadway show, a musical, and it’s gonna be really funny and a revern.

1:23:14 I think the great thing is that it’s gonna bring a whole new generation of people to Broadway. People would never go there because like, he’s kind of like older people, but this is gonna be like, really cool, really hip. And I think people are gonna love it. So I’m really excited. I’m gonna be involved.

1:23:30 I’m not just gonna sell the rights. I actually wanna get involved in helping them produce it and make sure it’s authentic to what the message should be and people love it. I love it. I think your story was probably meant maybe even more as a musical than as Scorsese movie. For sure.

1:23:45 Wow, I could already see some of the scenes. All right, that’s awesome. Have you seen on Coeludes? Oh my gosh. I don’t know how they’re gonna do that, but it’s gonna be good.

1:23:52 Awesome stuff. Jordan, congrats. Congrats on all your continued success. And I look forward to doing this again in the future. All right, thanks buddy.

1:23:59 Take care. Awesome. See you next time on London Real. Bye.