James Cosmo - The Pyramid Texts

Full transcript: James Cosmo on London Real

14:33 James, welcome to London Real. Thank you so much, Brian, it’s a pleasure to be here. You know, it seemed like a really big night for you. Everyone had just so many emotions, but I just wanna know a little bit about you before we get into the film. How does a tough guy like you become an actor in the first place?

14:49 Well, my dad was an actor. But I had a strange sort of childhood because he was a jobbing actor, as they called it. So my mother and sister and I were living in a tenement in Glasgow in Scotland. And he was away in the theater and doing different stuff. So it was a strange life.

15:13 My first job when I left school when I was 15 was in the ship breakers on Clyde side when they built ships and they broke them down for scrap. And I was there for about 18 months or so. And so I drifted into acting. I hitchhiked down to see my father when I was 17. And I met a director through him.

15:36 And she gave me a small part in a TV thing. And then I went off, and I did all sorts of things, as young actors do, because you’ve got to survive. You’ve got to earn a living. So I did everything and anything, but always came back to acting. So I didn’t have any formal training or didn’t do drama school or anything like that.

16:01 I just learned from my peers. And over the years, hopefully, improved a little bit. Was your choice of name just to get away from your father’s Copeland name? Yeah, well, I could have been James Copeland Jr. or someone else.

16:16 So my mother said, use your grandmother’s middle name, which was Cosmo. Which is Cosmo, right? do what your mother tells you so that was it in the story and we’ve seen actors do that like obviously you know Charlie Sheen and then Martin Sheen and then Emilio Estevez chose to use their previous name and you know you see kind of people trying to get away from their legacy Angelina Jolie from her father and that kind of thing so when did you make your first break as an actor where you were like I want to do this full time because you said you kind of experimented with acting and then other jobs yeah I guess it was Probably in my alley. Oh, that’s my phone.

16:52 I usually tell people to turn them off. Oh, that was the one time I forgot. Should we just let it go? Yeah, let it go. Okay.

16:59 That will stop in a minute. It’s a very real London Real moment. Yeah. So you were saying. Yeah, I did a film called The Battle of Britain and I loved it at a great time.

17:10 It was a big movie. That is a big movie. You know, and I met all these film stars. You know, I was just playing one of the fighter pilots but met all these guys and I thought, Jesus, this is a great life, you know? And at that time, you know, in the late sixties, or whatever it was, London was the most exciting place you could be on the planet.

17:32 It was just great, you know? It was all happening. And I thought, this is where I want to be. And so that’s what I did. What made it the exciting place to be?

17:41 Like, how did you, why did you feel that way? Everything was new. The King’s Road was like, you know, And now it’s a, you know, pastiche of the King’s Road, but then it was full of Malcolm McLaren opening shops and they just, there was a wonderful sort of anarchy about the place, you know, it was fresh and new and exciting, you know, great stuff being, great films being made, great theatre, great television. It was a wonderful time, you know, and I worked at the, I remember working at the BBC in the early days and I sadly I remember now that you could be maybe offered a movie a partner movie or or commercial TV but if someone said it’s a play for the BBC you sort of dropped everything and said yeah I’m gonna be there because that was the level of quality okay that the BBC was producing it was they they were so brave in those days because I remember the BBC Club at White City was at lunchtime, I think it was just full of actors and directors and writers drinking and arguing and talking and behaving badly and producing fabulous television.

19:03 I think it’s a gym now. A gym. I rest my case. Okay. All right.

19:09 Well said with that. Did you go on to do a lot of work for the BBC? Yeah, I worked for the BBC on and off a lot, you know. It’s not the organization that it used to be, but I still have a soft spot for it, you know. I still think it’s, the idea of the BBC is a wonderful, wonderful idea, you know, television for the people.

19:31 I think it’s lost its way hugely, but I still, in my heart, I still think that’s the BBC. Did your father give you any lessons about acting Or did he kind of let you get on with it? He just said, think it, be it. I said, Stanislavski wrote that great big book. He didn’t even bother.

19:51 He could have just thought, think it, be it. Think it, be it. Did you have acting training or anything like Stanislavski or any of the schools? No, no. No, I didn’t.

20:02 No. I watched other people and found my own way. And maybe my style of acting is different to everyone else’s or whatever. But I never regretted not going to drama school. Never, ever.

20:19 Never. You know, you’re a very warm and personal guy. But obviously, you play a lot of roles that have darkness in them and have anger in them, whether it’s in the pyramid texts or in Braveheart or in Game of Thrones. Where does that come from? Is that something that’s deep inside, it’s deep from your past, or is that acting?

20:40 I think that an actor finds the character within himself. I don’t think it can be something that comes from external sources. I think you’ve got to find whatever it is, be it good, or bad, or really, really dark. You all have that inness, and it’s just accessing that. And sometimes that’s not a very pleasant experience, but I think that’s the way to do it.

21:15 And I think you can tell sometimes when actors, when it’s all plastered on, that it’s not coming from in there. And if it doesn’t come from in there, it’s not real. And people know. Right. And so you don’t reach into a specific dark memory or darkness or dark that necessarily to get to where you need to be?

21:36 No, I’ve played some really dreadful serial killers and things. And you find some sort of connection there and try to understand. And as I say, sometimes it’s not particularly pleasant. But it’s within us all. All these emotions are within us all.

21:59 But we just deny it, you know, and be warm and personable. But we’ve all got that there, all of us. Can you tell me about the experience making Braveheart? Was that a big break for you? Oh, huge.

22:13 Was that, it was huge, okay. How did that come to fruition? Was it something in retrospect that you barely got or was always going to happen? And then what was it like, you know, filming some of that in Scotland, you know? Well, I’ve told this story a couple of times, But I had just been with my wife for a couple of years, and we had a baby who’s now 21.

22:40 And I hadn’t been working that much. So Annie, my wife, she worked at the BBC, and so she was keeping us. And I had gone up, I got a phone call from my agent at that time to go and meet Mel Gibson in some hotel London about a movie he might be making. So I went along and it was a funny meeting because Mel’s a really very warm and funny guy. You feel very much at home as soon as you meet him. And we sat down and he said, hey Jimmy, what do you think of this music? What do you think? There’s some French guy in all for this film. And he played this sort of Aeolian harps of stuff you know and I said that’s really very very interesting that’s nice yeah and he said okay and we just chatted for like five minutes and then I left and you know you meet people for films all the time you know sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t work you know so three months after it’s gone it’s finished and Annie and I were sitting on a Saturday night and our treat of the week, this is how broke we were, our treat of the week was to get a curry and we’d have a curry and watch the late night movie or whatever, baby’s in the bed next to us and we’re having a curry, 20 to 11 the phone rings, I thought jeez, I’m just about to eat my kind of phone rings like that one and so I said to Annie, listen just leave it and she said no, no, no, I said well listen, I don’t want to speak to him, just say I’ve gone to bed or whatever and I’ll call them in the morning.

24:15 So she answered the phone and she said, yeah, yeah, hello, yeah, uh-huh. She said, would you hang on? I said, what are you doing? I said, I’m in bed. She said, it’s Mel Gibson.

24:27 I said, oh, don’t be so silly. I thought it was somebody of mine, you know, just having a laugh. And I answered the phone and said, hello? Hey, Jimmy, it’s Mel. I said, yeah, it was it?

24:40 It was Mel, Mel Gibson. And then he really dropped and went, oh, geez. And he said, I’ve been watching some of your showreel, and the show you did, Roughnecks, you have the fight with this guy. He said, fucking great, man. He said, you want to come and play Campbell?

25:00 I said, the father. He said, yeah, yeah. Do you want to come and play? I said, you bet, Mel. He said, OK, see you next week.

25:09 Hung up, that was it, boom. It was a lovely feeling. That’s amazing. Were you surprised that he mentioned Campbell? Were you thinking a different role?

25:16 No, no, no. I just remember the characters when I read The Breakdown. And it was interesting, because I played the young guy to begin with at the beginning of the film. And then they shaved my head and did all that stuff. And I played the older guy.

25:32 And that character is really remembered so much by people. Because especially in a Hollywood movie, you don’t see kind of an older character at that time with that kind of, you know, grit and anger and physical, you know, physically violent scenes. And so he’s, it’s like, you remember Mel Gibson? And you remember you from that movie. It was- Really? That’s lovely.

25:53 It was big because it was so unique. Yeah. And did you know, I guess, did you know it was going to be that big going in? Did you know the movie was going to be that big going in? I remember talking with Randall Wallace because we filmed about a month in Scotland, all the big mountain stuff and the really magical highlands, the West Highlands.

26:13 And then we went to Ireland to film the rest of the film. Right, the fight sequences. Yeah, for about three, three and a half months. OK. And I remember we were I was we stayed in in just outside Dublin in Dolce.

26:27 But I was I was one night I was in the pub with Randall Wallace, the writer of the screen of the screenplay. And I said, you know, Randall, I think this is going to have a huge effect politically on Scotland. And he said, nah, get out of here. I said, I really, really do. And it did. And it still has. You know, I really think, obviously the Scottish nationalist movement has a lot, much, much longer history than that. But I think people in Scotland, it really resonated with them. You know, not that it’s a historically accurate, it’s It’s not a documentary, you know, it’s a romanticized idea, you know.

27:08 But it really, really resonated with the people in Scotland. But not only that, it resonated with English people, because it’s about freedom, it’s not about, it’s not racist, it’s not against the English or against anyone else. It’s about oppression and people striving for freedom, you know, and I think that’s why it had such an effect around the world, you know, that people said, yeah, you know. And why do you think it resonated? It was because the details and the acting and all of the thought put into it?

27:40 Or was it the themes? I think it was the theme. I think it was the fact that some people are willing to die for something greater than them, the freedom of the country, freedom from oppression. And that, you know, that is happening now and it will continue to happen. You know, that people will fight against oppression.

28:04 You know, seeing it in Hong Kong just now, you know, you’re seeing it all over the world. People saying, no, you can’t do this to us. Do you get associated sometime with the Scottish independence movement because of that film? Is it still brought up and still thought about because it was a big, a big picture for that? You know, is it?

28:23 Oh, yeah, I mean, when I have the pleasure of going back up to Scotland, you know, like it’s still big in people’s memory. You know, and it has, it’s interesting, Brian, because it’s a film that seems, for whatever reason, it seems to retain its freshness. It doesn’t tire like so many films now, you know. After a year, you’ve seen it twice, jeez, you know. You can watch Braveheart again and again and again.

28:54 And like, I have young kids to me coming up saying, oh man, Braveheart, you know, I think wow. And I think maybe one of the things is that we had a tiny amount of CGI. It was a joke, it was nothing. Mostly we had three and a half thousand extras doing it and I think that really did add to it, you know, like wow, you know. Yeah, it feels big, it feels genuine, you know, I mean the corners weren’t cut in the shooting of that, right? Oh no, no. They went all in and you could really tell and all the little details of the storyline, Mel was obviously superbly charismatic in the film, and then the performances are big, including yours. Did you have latitude on how you were going to approach that, anything there? I mean, you obviously had to make that character your own.

29:41 Well, you know, Mel left it very much to the actors, to bring their characters onto the set, and what he did do, and I think it’s because he’s such a fine actor himself, But he understood the acting process, he understood the anxieties and the process. So what he did was he freed everyone up, he said, there you go, it’s all yours, do what you want with it, really, enjoy it. So everyone did, and it really worked. And that’s the beauty of having a director that’s an actor.

30:22 Is that always the case, I mean, you’ve done countless films, television series, can Can you pretty much say unequivocally that when the director is an actor that the acting is better or that the feeling on the set is more relaxed or more independent for you? I haven’t worked with that many directors who have been actors. Every single time I’ve worked with them, the set has been superb because they understand. And that comes out on the screen? Absolutely.

30:50 Right. Yeah, I believe it. Okay, so the six months after Braveheart, your phone is ringing off the hook. Does it completely change the trajectory of your career, or it does, okay, so what happened next? I got offered a part in Emma, which is just ridiculous, you know, a Jane Austen film, me, a Jane Austen film, and Doug McGrath who directed it. I remember I went in to meet him And I thought, I’m not a Regency type guy, you know, like playing Emma’s father.

31:25 And I went in to meet Doug and all he wanted to talk about was Brave Hearts, with this long conversation about the making of Brave Hearts. And then I left and they said, oh, they’d love you to do Emma. It just shows the ridiculous mindset that all you would have, you know, if you’ve been in a successful movie, then we’ll put you in another movie because you might bring some of that glitter that you had, it’s just ludicrous. Right, okay, but you were happy to ride that wave.

31:51 I was happy to an extent, yeah, but I’ll never wear tights again. Okay. I wore them once, that was it. Okay. Did you ever worry about getting typecast or about having to play that role over and over again in Braveheart or not?

32:06 In a way I suppose every actor is typecast by their physicality, you know. I’m a big guy, I was very, very fit in those days. There was a big lump, I could ride really well, I could do the fencing really well. So you fall into those sort of parts. And that’s great, I’m working.

32:24 I’m an actor, what’s not to like, you know? And so I got a chance to, you know, to go to really interesting places and do things. And in films that I felt really comfortable with, you know? And then Hollywood came calling. Did you spend some time in LA?

32:39 I guess it’s every British actor’s, you know, calling at some point when they get big enough that they have to go and embrace the Hollywood process and all of that. What is your relationship like with California? How was that if you kind of take a bird’s eye view on it now? Yeah, it’s really sunny.

32:58 Yeah, it’s really sunny. I don’t know, I’m not a Hollywood actor. I would never, I may have been in Hollywood type films, but I’m not a Hollywood actor. I’m much more at home,

33:16 Doing work that I love you know and and I can appreciate the the lure of that especially for younger actors sure who wouldn’t love it you know I’ll give you an example we when we’re doing Game of Thrones it came to season three which is where I exited the series but HBO very kindly and generously said we’re gonna have a premiere at the Chinese Theatre and then a big do at the Roosevelt I think is across the road from them. I’m gonna send you two business class tickets and stay the four seasons for four days five days whatever you want would you look would you come so I said yeah sure so I took my my wife didn’t want to go she’s not into that sort of thing at all so I said to all this boy Ethan do you want to come yeah absolutely you know and so we flew out And I, as I think I told you before the interview, I went to a little place in Torrance, which is like in between Long Beach and LA.

34:18 It’s a very blue collar area. And my fishing buddy was coming down from Washington State. And I thought, you know what? We went through four seasons. It was a lovely suite, and jeez, you couldn’t open a door without somebody opening it for you.

34:34 There’s big bowls of fruit everywhere and I thought you know what I said to Easton I said Easton there’s a card for the hotel right for the four days enjoy yourself and I went back to my little place with Bo and he had the best four days he’s ever had okay so that is that is your relationship with Hollywood in a nut yeah you got it yeah okay fair enough he brought up Game of Thrones has that been a big career changer from you or since you’ve had so many big films I guess do you just kind of take it in stride along with all the other roles that you’ve had or was this a big it’s always a joy to be asked to do stuff you know and prestigious stuff and I hadn’t I hadn’t heard a Game of Thrones I hadn’t read I’m not a great fiction reader particularly neither so I hadn’t heard of George Martin who obviously sells tens of millions of books but But my agent emailed me through a couple of signs for this character, Lord Mormont, with a rough sort of outline of the story and things.

35:43 And I remember reading it and I thought, you know, usually, and he said, oh, it’s for tomorrow. It’s like two pages. He said, but it’s okay, you know, just hold it out of camera and just read, it’s fine, you know. And I thought it was his telling the new recruits to the Night Watch, what the Night Watch stood for and what they should expect and what they had to become, no matter what they’d been before. And I thought it was a really interesting speech.

36:14 David Benioff who wrote it, although he’s a great producer now, he’s no slouch as a writer. Right, he’s written some great books himself. Troy and everything else. Terrific. So I really worked at it that night. Really, really worked at it. And went in the next day, put it on tape just with a casting director’s assistant.

36:35 Just did two takes. Boom. You know, two pages. Thought, hey, that’s pretty good. Single camera? Is that how it was?

36:40 Single camera, yeah, no stops. And then I went away. And the next thing I knew, as As far as I can remember, I got an email from George Martin. And that’s not usually the process. Usually, it’s down to the last three, and then all that stuff going up to meet the network heads and all that stuff, you know?

36:59 But I guess some of your favorite things to do. George is powerful enough to be decided. And I’m sure David and Dan, the two producers, had a bit in it. So I was very privileged, you know? And it was a great show to work on, you know?

37:12 Real groundbreaking, hugely successful. But I do remember doing ADR off the first season out in LA. And I said to David, do you think you’re gonna get a second season? And he said, oh man, we’re hoping. Wow.

37:26 I know, it’s fascinating. Even the top, top shows on HBO, you’re not sure if it’s gonna be taken again or if it’s, I don’t know if it’s gamesmanship by the networks or anything, but you just don’t know. So these are these big hits and these big, but obviously it costs a lot of money to produce. But did you, so you’re doing the ADR in Hollywood, Were you thinking, okay, this is gonna be big, or you just never know? I just didn’t know.

37:49 I thought maybe they’ve overstepped the mark, they’ve spent so much money on this. Maybe it’ll just do okay, and people just won’t get it. Right, and television had made a big, big play at that point. I mean, this is three, four, even years ago, five years ago. There hadn’t been these original series that had done a huge breakup.

38:04 No, not spending this kind of money. I mean, it really was. Like, they were running, they run three units, Brian, you know, and every film unit, you know, one in Morocco, one in Croatia, one in Iceland or whatever, every unit’s like a big film unit, you know, it’s a massive, even the logistics of it are mind-boggling, you know, how they can put all this together, you know, and you think, you know, if you do one series, if that doesn’t blow off the charts, you know, they’re not going to spend the money on it, but it did.

38:36 Because it’s like you said, a lot of money to run those three units for that many episodes. Talk to me about the filming. I know you spent some very, very cold days in Iceland. I listened to an interview where you were saying there was only four hours of daylight, so you have to block it in the dark and then shoot it while the daylight and try to remain warm. What’s it like?

38:56 I really enjoyed it. I found it really empowering because you sort of felt, you know, if people watch the show, you know, beyond the wall is this, you wilderness with all these dreadful things out there and and when you go out when you when you step out of your lovely warm trailer or whatever it is and your beard starts to crackle with the ice you know and you can see your breath coming out and you feel the cold even though you’re wearing thermals underneath your costume you can feel the cold seeping into you it does add that extra something, you know, that this is a really dangerous place and I found it really helpful. And how many of your scenes are out there in the wilderness and how many are on sound stages and inside?

39:46 Most of them were out there, although when they were doing the sort of press kit stuff that they do, you know, they have a little camera and they do little interviews while you’re filming, you know, and the first time they were out there, you know, they said said, so what’s it like filming in the cold, you know, in Iceland? And I said, well, obviously, you know, here we are in L.A. and there’s a green screen behind me. And they said, no, no, no, don’t say that, I’ll believe it, you know.

40:20 And were you sad when you got the script that said that you were going to have this fantastic scene where you die? Were you like, I’m going to miss the next couple of seasons? How do you feel about that as an actor? No, I always knew, because a friend of mine had, when he knew that I was playing Lord Mormon. My fishing buddy, my old fishing buddy Bo, who hardly reads a newspaper, but he stuck in and he read all the books and he said, book three, you’re gone man, you know, we can go fishing.

40:46 So I always knew that the character was going to go, but that’s fine, you know, three seasons is great, you know, and in a way after that you’re sort of reprising the same character, you know, And I think the wonderful thing about my profession is that you get to visit so many different characters. Right. You know. It’s interesting to see things like Breaking Bad and Mad Men and Boardwalk Empire, you know, wrapping up, you know, and it seems like that five, six season mark is the time where those narratives kind of, they play out, you know, and it’s interesting to see how as humans, you know, we’ve kind of, we’ve seen enough from that character and we kind of need someone new, you know.

41:27 Funny, but breaking bad, because I really think that take the money out of the show. Take away how much money they’re going to make from another season. I think that could have been three fabulous seasons. I don’t think you should have gone to five. That’s my belief.

41:52 There was so much good in there, but sometimes you thought, I’m having to stick with this, because I love the idea so much. But yeah, it’s interesting that people just start to flag. Yeah, and we’re kind of in uncharted territory with sums to these original series. Like we just don’t know maybe how long to milk it and how long to, because there’s no precedent. They’re obviously making tons of money and they’re big, big, big production.

42:21 So it’s going to be interesting to see how they play out. And also Game of Thrones is that really clever idea that it kills people off all the time, introducing new characters coming in. So that does bring a freshness to it, that you’re not following the same heroes all the time. He’s dead. He’s dead.

42:41 Good guy, bad guy. So people are interested all the time. Right. I didn’t think about that because yeah, with Breaking Bad, you have the main character Walter with Mad Men, you have Draper, you have with World Walk Empire, you really are following one character. A lot of the time.

42:56 Let me ask you about one of the television shows, and I want to ask you about Scottish cinema real quick. Sons of Anarchy, what’s it like to do something like that? Again, does that bring you a whole new audience of people that love you in America? Like that you didn’t already have an audience anyways? What was that like being part of that?

43:10 Because that’s really big now. Courtney Love, the singer, is on there now, and Marilyn Manson, and it’s amazing the talent going through it. It’s extraordinary because it doesn’t feel like a big show when you’re doing it you know like it’s this bunch of guys with lots of tattoos and when they phoned out and said do you want to do a season of Sons of Anarchy I thought yeah I mean I don’t ride a motorbike but I would have learnt you know I thought yes Harley Davidson I’m sure they’d give everyone a Harley Davidson I end up playing an Irish priest you know so gonna give me anything that would give me a second hand praise you know but I loved it and and became very good friends with Ron Perlman and Charlie Hunnam you know who’s an English boy who’s gone out there and just knocked him dead you know he’s doing so well and I just did a film with Ron earlier on this year called Moon Walkers out in Belgium so we had a lovely time over there but I loved it it was great yeah preference television or movies for you yes why is that there is a magic about movies there is just something about it even though everything now is digitized I just love the feeling of a movie set you know I used to love when I was a young actor I used to love the sound of the camera you know that when they tunnel better get it right right right and the big art clamps where they used to have these carbon rods that they put in and when

44:36 They fired them and you know if it was like a war movie or something that the smell of cordite and things. It was magical. Magical place to work. Yeah, there’s still something special about film. There’s an American writer named Brett Easton Ellis who wrote American Psycho and Less Than Zero.

44:53 And he is constantly kind of complaining about television because he says ultimately these television series may be Game of Thrones aside but they still have this kind of a television arc where the people come on, they say their lines, they give the information, you move to the next scene and he said It’s a film that really can capture a feel and a look and really a piece of art, more so than a regular occurring series where you have the characters and you have the information. So he’s constantly- I couldn’t agree more. You could, you would agree with that.

45:20 Yeah. And also the advances that they’ve made in the technology of filmmaking, you know, has been great in one area and not so great in the others. You know, like, I remember somebody telling me in the early days, Spielberg used to edit his film on a moviola, even though he could do it on a computer, because that physical process of just winding the celluloid gave a director peace, you know, that it wasn’t beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, you know?

45:57 It was, you let the camera stay, let the camera tell the story, you know? And that seems to have gone to a great extent. Right. Yeah, everything changes the process. The technology, the financing, all of those things change the ultimate product only in some way.

46:16 Tell me a bit about Scottish cinema. You were in train spotting what we had Irving Welsh in here about a year ago, talking about that. If he said a funny story, he’s like, that was the first book I wrote. So he’s like, in a way, I am the wrong author to speak to, because most authors work for 20 years before anyone reads their work. That was like his first big thing.

46:36 Obviously, it was a play in Scotland before, then it became a film. What did that do to the Scottish film industry? How did you get involved, and what was it like being on set with Danny Boyle? I’ve worked with Danny before. When he was head of drama for BBC Northern Ireland, we went over and did a really, really good film for TV, film for TV, called The Night Watch.

47:05 But it was the painting, The Night Watch, about mercenaries waiting in Amsterdam to go on a job to Africa. And I just adored working with him. I really, really adored it. He still is a hero of mine. He’s just a superb filmmaker.

47:27 But why? He has a humility and a commonality with everyone on the set, yet has a very clear, firm idea of where he’s going. But it’s never put you under any pressure or whatever. It’s a joy to work with him. It really is.

47:52 And his decency and humanity is not fake. He’s a very, very genuine man, you know? I’ve got a lot of time for Danny. I hear he’s first on the set, last to leave. Oh, I’m sure, I’m sure, yeah.

48:08 And so he grabbed you, he chose you to be in Trainspotting. Did you know what was going to happen? Did you know it was going to be the birth of so many young actress careers? No. OK.

48:18 No idea. No idea. Although, when I saw the movie, I thought, you know, everyone was wonderful in it. And I thought Bobby Carlisle was stellar, absolutely Stella it was a showy part but he took it with both hands he made such a great job of it yeah it was it was wonderful and then so many of the guys have have gone on to do fantastic things you know just amazing yeah it was big and what is it about Scottish cinema did that push Scottish cinema in a certain way it was obviously global recognition it was a real piece that was seen everywhere wasn’t it yeah yeah I don’t know if it had a huge effect on on on film production in Scotland, Brian. I’m not sure about that. I really don’t know. I think things may get a lot better very shortly with the Scottish Parliament getting more control of tax revenue. And I’m sure Nicholas Sturgeon is going to be looking at the arts and making it more appealing for film because to work in Scotland.

49:28 Okay. I was in Scotland about a month ago. I was up in Guthrie Castle, which is near Arbroath on the east side, and I didn’t realize there was only four, four and a half million people in Scotland. Yeah. And I was wondering if you could tell us, why is there such charm with Scotland?

49:45 Why does Scotland have a brand that’s worldwide? Why do people love the Scottish characters that you portray, and why is it just kind of like this I don’t know this I don’t know if it’s an underdog piece but just everyone is vested in seeing these Scottish characters succeed or they want to watch them why does that happen I think it probably comes from the diaspora of of Scots and that that that diaspora was some came from a tragic background, the Highland clearances, when after the 45th rebellion, a lot of the chieftains who had supported the Hanoverian cause were given title to the land, which they had controlled the land, but they didn’t have legal title to it. They were the chieftains of the clan.

50:37 Were there for the service of the people of the clan and then after a few generations they were they went to England they were educated and there was a separation between the landowners and the and the people that lived there you know and the the run rig system of farming and things which was very simplistic and basic and community based but they found that they could make a lot more money having sheep instead of people so the people were literally driven from the land, the houses were burnt, the thatch were burnt and people were driven onto the shores and they went to America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, families broken up, men sold themselves into indentured servitude in America just to survive, you know, but that diaspora and it’s in the Scottish nature I think to, you know, the hard working, usually honest decent people and quite adventurous you know so they they made the very best of it you know and I think people admired those those people you know although they came from a very tragic incident that happened you know which has never been addressed still you know Scotland there’s a it was a very famous theatre company called 784 and they did some fabulous work they they They had a wonderful play called The Chiviate, The Stag, and the Black, Black Oil, you know, all the different, the Chiviate sheep, the stag, the Victorian myth of the Highlands and all that.

52:10 And then the oil, you know, three times that Scotland has been, you know, got the wrong end of the stick, you know. And 784 was named because 77% of the population owned 84% of the land. There’s something wrong here, you know. And it’s really interesting that Nicholas Sturgeon was talking either today or yesterday that they’re going to have to have a look at land reform in Scotland, you know, these huge estates where, you know, owned by absentee landlords, people that go shooting deer, and yet we have a civil population who a great many of them don’t live in very nice places, you know.

52:56 Got a beautiful country there and it should be for the enjoyment of everyone in Scotland, just a privileged few. That’s something that really, you know, and I’m sure people will, if they listen to this thing, they’d really disagree with me and say, but all these things bring in so much money. It’s absolute nonsense that there’s a wonderful book by a guy called Mombio who, I I think he writes for the garden sometimes, I can’t remember his first name, but a wonderful book called Feral, which is talking about returning the land in the right way back to nature and how by doing that we could change the economy of Scotland in an extraordinary way, you know, by things like reintroducing wolf packs, alpha predators.

53:49 It sounds ridiculous but it’s the most wonderful, exciting idea and the tourism and it would just be astonishing. I don’t think it’s going to happen but I urge people to read the book. It’s the most fascinating book I’ve read in a long time. You’re very passionate about this. I am, yes.

54:06 I’m passionate about the people of Scotland not owning Scotland. And did we make progress in the recent vote for independence? Is that a step? Did that really upset you? Was it a setback?

54:17 How did you feel about that? I couldn’t vote, because I don’t own a home in Scotland. In a way, I think it was probably the best of all results in so much that it was a further step towards a truly independent country. And these powers that have been given, I think they’re a bedrock that Scotland can build on and consolidate, and then we will move on further, you know? Because I do believe that I’ve met Alex Salmon a couple of times and I’m an admirer of the man.

55:00 And I do believe that Scotland has had a chance and will again have a chance to be a more compassionate compassionate and caring society. You know, I think a fresh start is a wonderful thing, you know, to say, listen, we’ve been part of this union, but now it’s time within the European Union to say, no, the people of Scotland have a different agenda, we are a different people, we’re much more socialist with a small s, you You know, we want to be a more compassionate people, you know. We want to be more like Norway or the Scandinavian countries, you know.

55:51 Let’s concentrate on making the people that live in Scotland. Let’s make their lives better, and that’s important to me. These like sound like some of the same issues even in Braveheart, you know, but I don’t know these stories you talk about, and I like to think I’m pretty well read, but I don’t know some of these things that you’re talking about, because these things haven’t really been talked about to the world, have they? Not really, no, no, it’s, you’re talking about the clearances and all that sort of thing.

56:17 Yeah, I mean, John Preble wrote a wonderful book called The High and Clearances, which is extraordinary and heartbreaking, you know, there’s a really interesting story, Brian, some Vojak when he wrote the New World Symphony. He took a tune and it was a spiritual, it was a slave’s spiritual called Going Home. That one. But they found, musicologists found that that came from a Gaelic tune called the Old Woman’s Lament, and that the genesis of that tune came from someone who was born in the Highlands, who was evicted from their home, went to America, and became an indentured serpent, seven years, and they were given the money so they could give the money to their family, so their wife children could eat and then he said for seven years I’m a slave and so he had that tune he or she had that tune and it was passed on to the black people that they slept with and worked with and then it became going home so that’s really interesting this is quite beautiful and tragic in a way Wow yeah these stories need to be told in some way yeah we need to find out I don’t know if that way is going to be in a film or something, but they need to be together.

57:48 Maybe one day. And I live in London. I’m four hours from Edinburgh by train, and I don’t know these stories, and it’s fascinating when you compare Scotland with the Nordic countries like Iceland, Norway, Sweden, and there are a completely different sense of government. They are much more socialist, and if you look at the geography, it would make sense that there’s those tendencies, and it’s something I don’t think about. Also, England is heavily weighted to London, and London is a major financial center, and driven by a lot of those economic interests here. I used to be part of that business. 20% of the tax revenues come from the banking industry and it’s pulled south, isn’t it? The whole the whole UK is pulled absolutely, you know, deep south into London. Absolutely, yeah. It’s almost the city-state. Right, right, in that sense.

58:33 Well, thank you for telling us about this. Let’s talk about this film I saw a week ago, yeah, called The Pyramid Texts. You are the lead in this. Have you been the lead in a film before or in something like this before I? Played Legion on TV, and I’ve I haven’t done much stage stuff because I don’t enjoy it particularly and So playing the major male character But this is the first time I’ve ever done anything like that. I mean there’s I I don’t think there’s many actors that have been privileged enough to be told well here it is let’s make a movie right you know and it’s only you right say only use another guy and it doesn’t speak right okay yeah that’s true what was the genesis of the pyramid texts how long did you know Jeff obviously it sounds like Jeff wrote it for you was it that simple of a story and how did it involve and how long did this take well I tell you Brian I am through my agent and Olivia, she phoned me and said Jeff Thompson and the Shemation brothers, who were with the agency, would like to meet you to talk about a movie.

59:48 And so I went along and they were talking about, it was another movie, it was a different movie that they wanted to make. And I met Jeff for the first time and I didn’t know who Jeff was. I know that he’s, I now know he’s a very, very famous man. about two years ago in that world? Yeah, it’d be about that, two and a half years ago. And I met this very spiritual, quiet, gentle, nothing that you see in the, that my son showed me in the middle. What? I know. It’s very jarring at first. It is. But you see, I just met this really gentle guy, you know, and drinking his green tea or whatever. Gee. But he said I’ve written so many things for you.” I said, I’m sorry. He said, everything I’ve written has had you in it. I’ve written that character for you, but you’ve never, you’ve been busy or been away or whatever. And I found that, I thought it was so complimentary, you know, I was really, really touched by it. And I said, you know, I said, that’s really Lovely of you.

1:01:00 And I said, whatever happens with this, we’ll have lunch sometime. So we met for lunch. And he said, it’d be lovely to work with you. And I said, yeah, we should do something together. And I said, maybe something we could take on the road.

1:01:25 This idea of maybe doing a tour of universities in America, like a one-man show with Jeff if he had written it. And we could just have a good time, gone round for a couple of months doing some universities in the evening and then talk to the students. I love talking about acting to young people. It’s one of the joys of it, you know, just their enthusiasm and their interest and their freshness. But you don’t like the stage, you said?

1:01:54 I don’t like the stage now. Why not? Because they can get to you. They could climb over and kill you, if you like. No, it’s just, I was brought up making movies, so it’s just something different.

1:02:07 Okay, but you thought maybe you would take this on the show, which means you would be filming it live. Yeah, yeah, a really intimate thing, you know? Okay, right, right. You know, like audiences of 500 students, maybe, you know? Okay.

1:02:15 That’d be lovely. Okay. And so we talked, and we had lunch, but then suddenly it was the evening, and we’re still talking. And then Jeff told me about his life. And I told Jeff about my life.

1:02:28 And really intimate stuff. And sometimes you meet someone, and there’s just an instance of rapport. And Jeff is a very open person. He’s very easy to speak to because he listens. And anyway, that was lovely.

1:02:50 About, I don’t know, about eight months later, six months, or a year, whatever, this script gets emailed to me. And it’s called The Pyramid Text by Jeff Thompson. Jeff says, what do you think? And I started to read it. I read 30 pages, couldn’t go on.

1:03:14 I just started crying, just crying and crying. And I thought, well, that’s it. I ain’t doing that. And then a few days later I went back and I got past that 30 pages and I got to whatever it was, 60 pages. Couldn’t.

1:03:32 And then the next time I read the whole thing and I thought, I’ve got to do this. I’ve just got to. And that was it. I said to Jeff, yeah, let’s do this. And it was terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

1:03:47 Because it was going places that I really really didn’t want to go, really didn’t want to go, but I knew I had to do it. It was an opportunity of a lifetime really. For an actor, and I’m an actor, I tell people I can’t bear it sometimes and that’s true, but I’m an actor to my bones. It’s in my genes, that’s what I am. I can’t be anything else. I’m useless at everything else. I’m not a bad fly fisherman but not as good as some but it’s the only thing I can do and I knew I had to do it I had to so it came like a very slow steam train through the tunnel towards me took months to come towards me I get more and more frightened as it came you know so maybe I’ll maybe I’ll catch a cold or somebody can’t do it and I would look at the script and read it through and think Jesus I’m never gonna do that you know but eventually it came and then walked into Reptum Boys Club and we kicked off why did it scare you so much because it’s it’s biographical in a way I not so much biographical but I think it’s about the deepest part of a man’s persona of a real man and it’s the part that that many very physical men don’t want to explore they don’t want to go there you know and I’m not saying I’m a big tough guy, I’m not, but it was to find, like I was saying earlier, it was finding that person inside of you, that person with so much pain, I didn’t want to go there because I’ve got kids, you know, and I, people cried when they saw the movie and

1:05:53 I cry when I see the movie because it’s about, it’s about love and it’s about pain and it’s about fear and loss, things that parents don’t want to go near. So yeah, I was scared of it, yeah. And it is that tough guy view of it. I mean, there’s a line in there where you talk about building your armor and you see so many fighters and so many tough guys do it, and especially what Jeff used to do as a doorman, and you know, it’s this armor you’re building to protect that fear that’s deep inside.

1:06:23 And a lot of times the most aggressive guy is the most fearful guy, and it’s something fascinating about Jeff Thompson and about you James is that 90% of our audience is male you know and we talk about maybe tough guy stuff we talk about spirituality but we have fighters on and that kind of thing and I think this typical either guy that is a tough guy or represents him as a tough guy they need to see men like you on screen or men like Jeff talk to them that they know used to be tough guys or are tough guys and then when they show that they have feelings and fears and pains then they they allow themselves to accept that and And then that can cry for the first time. It’s okay to be scared. Yeah, it’s okay to be scared.

1:07:01 That’s one of the lines in the movie. Yeah. There you go. And yet they can’t see another individual do that. So you could just have, like I said, as just a spiritual person or a Dalai Lama type, and I love the Dalai Lama, he can get on and he can say the same things Jeff says, but it lacks kind of that street credibility.

1:07:17 And so people, people don’t make the leap, you know, and that’s what you and Jeff do so well. And when you put it on screen, it was so true because it allows us tough guys, us boxers, guys to be like okay it’s James and Jeff you know there they know what they’re talking about they’ve done the tough road now let’s listen and to hear all the pains and you know drinking is brought up a lot and how that’s used to mask the pain and and and it’s just something everyone’s had their journey there and yeah it gets it gets yeah just very deep and personal yeah yeah and it that was that was why it felt so great last Tuesday when we watch that film to see like boxers and tough guys and film producers or casting whoever they were you know all come in because it touched everyone and that for me as an actor is we just think yes that’s that’s just the best and why why does that role terrify because when you’re Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch you have some powerful scenes yeah powerful messages but you know it’s I guess it’s short piece it’s a one-off piece here you have to inhibit this character for 98 minutes is that why it’s more terrifying for you because you really have to go deep in there to those yeah it was like you were saying earlier Brian the you know when about the difference between film and television you know film it starts off he’s a he’s a tough guy you know bandaging his hands he’s big fat hands, you know, his bust-up nose, all that stuff, you know. I think this is a

1:08:55 Tough guy, but then it goes in a journey that you don’t expect, you know. It goes right to his broken heart, you know, and I think he could only do that in a movie format. Right, right, and so the one thing I noticed and I said earlier is it seemed that you all worked together to make this piece of art. It didn’t seem like the writing was overpowering, your acting wasn’t overpowering, although you could have done it that way. You could have been, this is my monologue performance and I’m going to steal the show, but you almost didn’t steal the show, at least that’s what I saw. You like let the writing flow through you and then as well the filmmakers, they seem to compliment it and not overpower that whole piece. Had that all come together and did I read that right?

1:09:41 You did, absolutely right Brian. I think because we all approached the project, it was completely collaborative. There were no stars in this, you know, there just weren’t, you know. I was there to bring to life what Jeff had written and Paul and Ludwig Shemation were there to put that on the screen the best way they could, you know. And the makeup girl was there to do the best she could, and the costume girl, and the guy that made the tea, and all that, we were all the same, you know, we were all there just to do this work for five days, no, you know, because we loved it, because we needed to do it.

1:10:30 And so it wasn’t just the four of us, it was the 15 of us, right? Right. You shot this in five days at Reptons, which is just this quintessentially British East End boxing gym with so much character there. But, you know, you only had five days, you know, you prepare. How did you prepare for this? What was it like when you’re shooting?

1:10:50 You know, how can you, you had some very emotional moments on screen. You’re crying. How do you do that, you know, in that short period of time? We shot it mainly chronologically, like starting at the beginning and going through. Which is easier as an actor, maybe.

1:11:03 Absolutely yeah yeah very much so so you I sort of knew the the cadence of the piece and where that was gonna be how much we’re gonna do that they are how much we’re gonna hope to do that day you know so I was sort of prepared every evening because we had to be out of there early because it’s a working boxing club. I would go home and just go through the next day’s stuff and just get myself in that place. It was great because I could jump in the car at four o’clock in the morning to get there. It was really quiet and dark and that jummy in just put you in that place and we just went in and got on with it. Really quiet, no noise, no big stuff. We just let’s do it and that’s it.

1:11:55 And how did you prepare for this? the big, the big emotions. I mean, yeah, I’m just thinking, I mean, do you map this out? Do you think I’m going to get on page 12? I’m going to try to bring it here.

1:12:06 I’m going to do this. Do you memorize all the lines? Do you read it a hundred times? You know, with Jess writing, it was all there. You know, I didn’t have to impose my own cadence to it.

1:12:22 It was it was written there, you know. And when it came to the really powerful stuff, I knew it was coming, but I just had to let it go and let it happen, let it happen. And that’s the way it works, when it really works. And I would like to think myself, I’m a modest person, I think it’s the best thing I’ve ever done and I don’t think I’ll ever do any better. I don’t think so.

1:12:51 I don’t think I’ll get the opportunity to do something like that again. When I saw that piece, I was like, this is what famous Hollywood actors get to do. they get to do these beautiful pieces of art where they get to put all of themselves into it. I’m like, it just seems like the quintessential moment for a Hollywood actor to do something like that, but it’s very rare, isn’t it? Oh, hugely rare, hugely rare.

1:13:12 And you’re right, you know, it’s art. And it’s not art, it’s an art movie, but it’s art. It’s the real thing, you know. It doesn’t have any, you know, we didn’t have any big machine behind us. It’s just people trying to do the best they can with a wonderful piece of work.

1:13:33 And that’s what I loved about it. It’s like great painters paint and then business comes in and suddenly art has a monetary value. You think, wait, there’s a shift change there. How can you put a monetary value on someone’s talent to do something? It doesn’t equate to me.

1:14:05 And it’s a bit like film, as well. I find it terribly sad that, to the great extent, filmmaking has become a cynical exercise, a cynical money-making exercise run by people who don’t really care. They just look at the bottom line. That’s what it’s about. Right, because this film wouldn’t have even been made, let alone made in the way it was, if there had been any ulterior motives from the monetary.

1:14:29 We couldn’t get any support. We couldn’t get any support, Brian. Nobody was interested. No British funders, no, no. They look at the script.

1:14:39 I think it’s a beautiful script. It’s a beautiful script, no, no. Not with you, not with the, no. No, no. The script, monologue, they don’t understand these points they’re making, they don’t understand that.

1:14:52 And when I was- They do now. OK, I was watching it and it was classic Jeff Thompson because Jeff can move from the minute details of wrapping a hand at boxing and then spin off to, you know, quoting an Indian text. That’s right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

1:15:08 And isn’t it interesting that he wrote this character as you rightly say, you know, one minute he’s talking about breaking your bones and and and smashing people in the ring. And then the next thing, he’s talking about Hindu philosophy. And who is this guy? Who is this old man, you know? You’re meant to be an old boxing coach, an old boxer, but he’s so erudite and beautiful.

1:15:37 I love it. I love it. Yeah, it was classic Thompson. And if you if you are a fighter or you come from that tough guy side, you can tell it was written by a guy from there, because the details are there. Exactly and so that and that’s what makes it real. Yeah. Yeah, your son makes a couple cameos in here How does how was that having your son involved?

1:15:56 Was that a yeah, what was that like for him and for you? He he’s at university He’s a very keen amateur box reason reason. He’s a really good classy classy kid He loves body doesn’t want to tongue me. Well, he talks about tongue and prone maybe sometime. I know Anyway, he had a great time.

1:16:18 He really enjoyed it. I didn’t watch him doing his stuff. I didn’t want to be there because you don’t want your dad watching you, you know? Even the bits he did, I thought, I’ll be out of here. But there were a couple of bits that were tough to do with him.

1:16:35 I wouldn’t spoil it for people to watch it for. But yeah, he had a great time. And afterwards, did you go some places emotionally that was kind of cleansing afterwards? Did it kind of have some closure with you once you dealt with some of these big emotional pieces where there’s certain days where you were like, this is a really hard day to get through? There were a couple of hard, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:16:58 Couple of, the last couple of days was, you know, easy, tough, you know. Emotionally, it was draining. I think that’s the best way to put it. You know, you felt as if you’d been put through an emotional wringer at the end. There wasn’t any more to give, you know, that was it, you know, can’t give you any more.

1:17:19 Right, I can see that. I guess that’s where the schedule worked in your favor because they had to shut down. Absolutely, yeah. What’s the future of this film? Does it now kind of get taken to see if it has a mind of its own or a life of its own?

1:17:30 Do you potentially do this on stage? What’s next? There’s talk of doing it on stage, which we’re looking at, and it will be changed to an extent. But as the film per se, it’s going to do the festivals. We’re going to have another screening of it before Christmas, I hope, because the reaction was so extraordinary, better than any of us could have imagined.

1:18:04 So we’re having another screening. And it will do the festivals. And I hope it will. And that’s one of the great pluses about technology today. you know, the social media is so much more powerful than, you know, waiting for a film review in The Guardian to come out or whatever, you know, you know, who reads papers.

1:18:23 And that seems to be growing and growing. You know, there’s so many more people interested and want to see it. So I think it might have a its own life, you know. Also with the video on demand markets and things, this is the kind of piece that I can see, you know, living for a long time, you know, in that way where people could access it directly, you know, get it from iTunes, that kind of thing. Yeah.

1:18:47 We’d like a theatrical release. I mean, obviously we would because, you know, to get into a few cinemas means that for some business reason it’s, you can market it better with Netflix or Lovefilm or whatever, all that sort of stuff. You can put yourself into a bathtub and all that sort of stuff. Right, right. Could you perform that play three, four nights a week?

1:19:10 I don’t know. Jesus. I don’t know. I mean, even one night is, I mean, that’s amazing. Well, I didn’t know if I could do it on film.

1:19:19 I don’t know if I can do it on stage. But you’re willing to give it a try? I’ll give it a try. Okay. It was a super powerful movie, James.

1:19:28 It really spoke to me a lot. I think anyone who watches this show and loves to listen to Jeff, or even the themes that we talk about, which are spirituality mixed in with the martial arts, mixed in with a modern man or a tough guy trying to find his way in the world. I mean, it really hit home. And like I said earlier, what I loved about it is what it let you as a viewer make your decision about it. So the scoring was really light on it, which I loved.

1:19:57 And it was just your acting, Jeff’s words, and black and white filmmaking, beautifully made, intelligently made, but not overdone, and no score piped in. So you could just feel the emotions in their rawest form. And it’s quite a journey you go on. And people think a 98-minute monologue, well, what can happen? Well, let me tell you, a lot can happen.

1:20:19 And I didn’t expect a lot of things coming on that thing. And so you guys did a very good job of kind of marketing it and lured me in. And it’s something that I would love to watch again. And I’d recommend it to anybody that watches London Real. And it’s powerful.

1:20:33 And I don’t think that film can be made in America, James. I think it can made, I think that film can only be made by a Scottish actor at Reston Gym, you know? I just think there’s something about the story that rings true and maybe it’s some of the things we talked about with the Scottish spirit and the immigrant mindset and the hardworking mindset going through this tale, because it’s very believable. And I just don’t know if that same story in a Las Vegas gym or something would resonate.

1:21:00 No, maybe not, I think you’re probably right. And you know, it makes me proud to be British when I see a film like that. I always say that kind of joking. All of my great-great-grandparents did come from the UK. Oh, you just come home then.

1:21:10 Yeah, exactly. But it just has that thing. And it just makes you think, wow, there are some wonderful things about the UK that are only ours. And when you guys make a piece of art like that, it’s yours. It’s not Hollywood’s.

1:21:24 It’s not this studio, this studio. It’s yours. It’s something that I think people will be happy to rally around, because it really gets emotions going. Yeah. So you know I guess you’re kind of in the afterglow of this now and do you think you’ll ever do anything like this again? No. No? No. Too draining or you just don’t think you can top it? I don’t I don’t I don’t think I’ll ever find anything as good as that again. I really don’t and that’s fine you know I’m 66 or 67 I don’t know. Next year I’ll be in the business 50 I think that’s a lovely way to top it. Say, well, there you go. I’m not gonna retire, but you know, I’ve It was my mountain and I climbed it. I hope people enjoyed it I’m very proud of it. I think I’m very proud of us all the guys and all the ladies that helped right?

1:22:20 Yeah, what a team what a team, you know, I always finish off the shows by asking a few questions at the end I’m gonna ask you James Yeah If you could make a a phone call to the 20 year old James Cosmo and give that young man a bit of advice What would you tell him? don’t hesitate don’t prevaricate Strive to be happy and don’t let anything get in the way of that Do what makes you truly happy? It’s not to do with money. It’s not to do with where you are It’s to find happiness deep within yourself yourself, go for that and never take no for an answer. Go on that journey. You may not find it for a long time, you may never find it, but maybe you will and that’s the best.

1:23:17 Well said, well said. Best advice you’ve ever received in your life? Could be business from acting standpoint or just personal? The best piece of advice. I never listened to much advice, I’ve got to say.

1:23:41 You know, I honestly can’t think of anyone that gave me advice that resonated with me. Interesting. I’ve always made my own path in life and made so many mistakes, so many mistakes. But I had to make them, you know? Maybe giving advice is a thing that can steer you around things.

1:24:14 But maybe sometimes it’s best to go straight through them. That’s what I did. What was the 20-year-old James like? Was he pretty headstrong? Was he some of what that guy was talking about in the film?

1:24:22 Was that part of him, those early days? Yeah. I mean, it was brought up in a working class culture, a physical culture. My idea of a Saturday night out was eight pints of Guinness. go dancing and have a fight. That was Saturday night, that’s what I loved. I loved being that age, it was wonderful, it was beautiful. The girls were so lovely and life was, even in those rough times, life was so beautiful. Someone said, oh it was Michel de Montaigne, the French philosopher, said that we’re given a great gift, that as we grow older we can’t remember what it was like to be young, because if for one second we felt like we did from when we were young, the rest of our life would be awful.

1:25:17 Interesting. That is interesting. I’ve never heard that. Yeah. Last question. Advice to those young actors out there, you know, that are in their teens, maybe around 20 years old themselves right now, that, you know, they look to you. I mean, wow, I mean, you’re on so many screens that they see you, but what advice do you give to them if they want to, I guess, I don’t know, maybe be famous is wrong because you might advise against that, but what do you tell them? That’s the interesting thing because even especially in America, what do you want to be? I want to be a film star. You don’t want to be an actor. You want to be a film star.

1:25:54 There’s a big big difference. Being an actor is something more than being in big movies, you know, and if you really want to be in the business, if you You really want to get respect, teach yourself to be an actor, look at every part and find that person inside you and be true. Be true to that character, be that character, good or bad or whatever, be that person. And if you can learn to do that, then your performances will be great. And for you, the pyramid text is one of the high points of your career.

1:26:31 And a lot of people would look to, you know, an HBO series as the high point, you know, but you’re looking to something where you acted and you created, and that’s the moment for you. Yeah, because I would like to be thought of as an artist, a genuine actor. That’s what I am. And that’s not to do with fame or being in big movies or big televisions. It’s not to do with that, it’s about being an actor and the privilege that actors have is to be in front of an audience, through film or whatever, to be in front of an audience and have the privilege to do work that can touch them in some way, to make them laugh or to make them cry or to make them question who they are or question their attitudes.

1:27:35 That’s the kernel, the golden kernel of being an actor. It doesn’t happen very often because we all do stuff that it’s drivel, it’s nonsense. It’s a waste of time mostly, but sometimes you get something that can just make people think. Just for a moment. That’s a huge privilege.

1:27:59 Amen. James, thank you so much for coming. Oh, it’s been a huge pleasure talking with you, Brian. Thanks so much for opening your heart, I mean, on the screen for that film, because you just went so deep in so many ways. And thanks for telling us about yourself.

1:28:14 I guess the best way would be to tweet out, and we’ll send messages to Jeff, and then the Shemazian brothers that you want to see this film, and that’s going to move it to the next level, hopefully a theatrical release. And yeah, I’m actually thinking I would love to see it again in December. That’s what I was thinking. Well, we’ll make sure you do. I would love to.

1:28:32 We’ll make sure you do. Fantastic work all around. James, I hope you don’t stop making movies. That would be a travesty. So I look forward to your next project.

1:28:41 As we say on London Real, it’s about the journey. I think that’s your motto as well. And I wish you all the best. Thank you so much. Thank you, Brian.

1:28:49 It’s been a pleasure. All right, take care.