Marianne Williamson – Our Deepest Fear

Every now then I meet a guest who leaves me speechless. This week’s guest, however, left me breathless.

Marianne Williamson is a spiritual teacher, author, and lecturer. She’s also one of the only people I know who has made Oprah Winfrey cry.

You might know Marianne from the famous quote that begins: “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate, but that we are powerful beyond measure…”

This quote is usually attributed to Nelson Mandela, but it is actually taken from Marianne’s book A Return To Love, which is one of four of her books that reached the New York Times bestseller list.

I think one of the reasons behind Marianne’s success as a spiritual teacher is how articulate she is about a range of issues, from politics, to history and religion.

In this episode she dropped science about the recent history of American politics, the killing of Robert Kennedy and the invasion of Iraq.

At the time we filmed this interview, the Paris attacks had only just happened, and Marianne said some moving things about the need for atonement and forgiveness after such horrifying events.

She actually ran for Congress in the last election, a period which she says was the most exciting and humbling of her life.

There are a lot of spiritual teachers out there, and they all say hopeful and inspiring things, but Marianne involves herself in the world. She makes the best effort possible to actually live the wisdom of her message.

In her writings, she is known for her thoughts on forgiveness. But Marianne doesn’t talk abstractly about issues of spiritual importance.

She insists she is like everyone else, like you and me – reactive and easily hurt. Forgiveness for Marianne is not just a pretty idea. It is the fundamental work of being human.

Again, she turns the discussion to the events of our time, and she believes that we are going to have to evolve as individuals if we are going to rise to meet the challenges we face.

Marianne Williamson is a Texan, so she doesn’t hold back from going into difficult places.

There is a lot of tough talk in this interview, especially when we address the crimes of institutionalised religions, and the “legalised bribery” of our political systems.

But that is part of her gift to the world in my view. As Marianne herself says, dialogue, communication and difficult conversations are exactly what the world needs right now, and they are exactly what start the healing process.

If we are not prepared to go to the hard places in ourselves and our relationships, then we are not ready to evolve.

I ask Marianne about religion, and it is a big topic for her. She once held a ministry, but these days she has no truck with organised spirituality.

Her awakening happened with a book called A Course In Miracles. This sounds like quite an esoteric title, but a miracle for Marianne is an event that happens in real time.

There is no God, she tells me, if we are not being real. Spirituality is not about dogmas or scriptures. It is about cutting the BS.

That combination of highly articulate political thinker, and bad ass Texan preacher, will make a believer out of you let me tell you!

I found Marianne inspiring because her ideas really resonated with me.

London Real, as you know, is about creating dialogue, having the conversations you won’t hear anywhere else, whether it is the mainstream media or the ramblings you hear on new media platforms these days.

Why is being real so important? Because, as Marianne says, only the truth can create transformation.

Only being super-real and authentic, allows us to make lasting changes in ourselves and in the world.

Marianne quotes A Course In Miracles in this interview, saying that a miracle is a shift in perception from fear to love.

Action is a big part of what Marianne believes it means to be a spiritual person. It’s not enough for us to say the right things. We all know what the right thing is, we’ve all read the right books, and watched the right TED Talks.

For Marianne, the greatest “journey with no distance” is aligning the heart and mind, living out our soul’s calling.

We can’t do this if we are constantly distracting ourselves, or hiding our light from the world.

Action is the key, for Marianne, but we must act from an authentic place, from the truth of our soul’s mission.

We owe it to the world to reconnect with ourselves, to dig deep and touch the “deepest waters of our soul,” as Marianne so beautifully puts it.

There is literally no conversation Marianne is not willing to have. I asked her questions about Ayahuasca, terrorism, Donald Trump (!) and even her feelings on death. And what is our deepest fear by Marianne Williamson meaning?

She is so opinionated and articulate about all these issues, and I swear you will get a takeaway from each every one of these discussions we had.

But, in my humble opinion, behind all that is a fortitude and spiritual courage to both face her own limitations, and to push back the boundaries of what culture says we can and cannot talk about.

I hope that London Real can emulate Marianne Williamson. Transformation happens when we bring the light to the darkness of our fears, and that is what we are all about.

Let me know in the comments below about your transformational moment during this free episode. I had so many, and I can’t wait to hear what you guys get from this great teacher and communicator.

[8:30] Introduction

[9:20] What is the relationship between Marrianne and London?

[10:00] Is London a spiritual place? What kind of energy do you feel?

[10:17] Spirituality is the path of the heart.

[10:44] Honoring your incarnation. We are all assigned.

[11:00] And we are all assigned to places.

[11:15] It’s where your heart calls you to serve there.

[11:40] My soul is in LA and a few other places.

[11:45] There is a global consciousness and an awareness that is still growing. We need to be global citizens.

[12:08] We can’t stay on just one continent.

[12:15] We are all becoming less geocentric and that’s a good thing.

[12:40] Travelling a lot. Is that because your message needs to be everywhere.

[13:10] Speaking at Harvard Divinity School

[14:25] American citizenship.

[14:45] Paris attack 2015 and the attack of Syria by the US.

[15:45] Weapons of mass destruction.

[16:00] Dealing with Baghdad in Iraq.

[16:41] American politics is only about treating the symptoms.

[17:26] Integrated factors.

[18:30] Taking on Hitler was obvious.

[19:00] Love. We did not factor in genuine moral questioning.

[19:30] Atonement.

[20:30] How can US or UK atone?

[21:00] Things change the moment you have a different conversation.

[21:40] Nations can attone.

[21:55] Time and space are illusions of consciousness.

[22:00] Everytime two people agree on something.

[22:28] All minds are joined. Shift in perception.

[23:21] Paris attack and how Americans reacted?

[23:30] Forgiveness.

[24:00] Name what you are forgiving.

[24:59] First issue is to forgive ourselves.

[25:05] You can’t bring the light to the darkness. You have to bring the darkness to light.

[25:25] Abraham Lincoln said that nations have to confess their sins and pray for forgiveness just like individuals do.

[25:42] Beyond this veil of illusion. Love will have the final say here.

[26:35] Children are being taught to hate.

[27:00] Insanity exist. Gandhi said that the problem in the world is that humanity is not in the right mind.

[27:33] They need to be spiritually quarantined.

[28:34] Forgiveness is understanding that there is other levels here that the mortal eyes can see.

[29:21] Franklin Roosevelt called the Nazi unworthy man not evil doers.

[30:00] Are you a black belt in forgiveness? The goal is black belt.

[31:30] What was it like growing up in Texas in the 50s.

[32:30] Product of being from Texas.

[33:26] How did you learn how to speak?

[34:20] I’ve been doing this for 30 years and I’m a writer. I think of myself as a jazz philosopher.

[34:46] It’s not off the cuff.

[36:06] The talk at the Parliament of World Religion for the women plenary session.

[37:41] Being real.

[38:08] Religion and education should be a wakener.

[39:10] Pope Francis is a global spiritual leader.

[39:55] The Dalai Lama.

[40:30] Called to the conversation at the intersection between spirituality and politics.

[40:45] No plan will work unless we meditate.

[41:10] Asking for a divine intercession when praying to change our consciousness so that we do change at a level of cause.

[41:40] I always had a spiritual religious fervour.

[41:55] The most important tool that we have for personal and global transformation.

[42:19] Modernity is an assault to the mind.

[43:24] We make mistakes when we are moving too fast.

[44:00] Agreement in conversations.

[44:40] The vortex of religion and politics.*

[48:45] Running for congress.

[49:27] A legalised system of corruption and bribery in the US.

[51:50] Bernie Sanders

[53:00] You are only a failure if you didn’t learn from the mistakes.

[54:25] Donald Trump and his popularity.

[55:33] Genuine shakti

[57:20] Trump is an american character. He is oddly entertaining.

[58:00] Miracle. A course in miracles. Shift in perception from fear to love. All minds are joined.

[1:00:00] We are all connected. There is actually no place where you start and I stop.

[1:03:24] Carl Jung on archetypes in the collective unconscious.

[1:03:58] That’s why if I judge you I will be judged.

[1:04:12] Enlightenment is a shift from body enlightenment to spirit enlightenment.

[1:06:34] Practising what I preach.

[1:07:00] Ayahuasca, psychedelic experiences and the war on drugs.

[1:09:42] Bless more than blame. Letting us want what we want.

[1:10:10] Natural intelligence of each cells

[1:12:43] Respecting the desire. Desire as opposed to just appetite.

[1:14:04] Today is a good day to die.

[1:16:30] I feel like I have sung a song.

[1:16:52] Failure to deal with the topic of death robs the second half of your life of its meaning.

[1:17:28] Death is a blessing of part of human.

[1:17:52] 2020, Brian this is what I did in the last 5 years.

[1:18:30] What was it like meeting Oprah.

[1:19:25] Seeing things through the realness.

[1:21:23] Seeing beyond the illusion.

[1:22:19] Those who have achieved nothing has the same dreams as everyone else.

[1:22:31] 30 days of forgiveness. Pray for their happiness.

[1:23:28] On a spiritual level, what you give away is what you get to keep.

[1:24:25] Loving thought.

[1:25:21] Downloading the undeletable file.

[1:25:39] Higher awareness of our oneness.

[1:26:00] The miracle you could have had is held in trust for you until you are ready to receive it.

[1:27:39] Start receiving the miracles you have denied yourself.

[1:28:33] Quote misattributed to Nelson Mandela. Return To Love.

[1:32:26] Success Secret.

[1:33:04] Is there a mentor that was pivotal in your development?

[1:33:51] What was it like when Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King died.

[1:35:50] When you reach 50, you must say what you think otherwise your song stays with you.

[1:38:50] Obama’s presidency and his campaign.

[1:39:30] Advice to the 20 year old Marrianne.

[1:40:30] Best advice you ever received?

[1:41:00] Advice to the 20 year old.

Leave a Reply

38 Comment threads
6 Thread replies
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
40 Comment authors
craigquasar421ElvanRamskee925Judestrayamate143 Recent comment authors
newest oldest most voted
Notify of

Deeply important and thought inspiring conversation. In gratitude this is available to be absorbed and learned from, thank you.


she is very beatufull.


Loves this interview. What an amazing person Marianne is!


Such an inspiring interview Brian.


Fantastic what great inspiration you and your guest are. Thank you for keeping it real. Very powerful stuff to eb embodied in this interview.

Abdoul Kadry Diallo

Thanks Brian for this ITW. This is a treasure. I’m very impressed by your conclusion and by the way you treat your guest! You are a real gentleman and an inspiration for me!! Thank you again for this moment!

Hans Zwartveld

deepest fear of your best you is a supertheme, that should be analysed and studied at a thorough level, like a complicated chess position (the chessplayer and psychologist in me)

Константин Иванов

It’s been a long time since we finally have such people like Marianne. We had Mandela. We had Osho or Gandhi. Personalities who are tottaly made of a light and ultimate spirit, People who are here to help others to awake from the dream. I feel total bless when im watching her or listening her. Absolutely sure of the fact that everything is possble and everything is meant to happen for reason. The reason we can understand with help of MArrianne or others like her. I’m russian. And i feel a big lack of inspiring persons here , that is… Read more »

Alecia Velma Jackson

We are ALL One evolved from our “African Ancestor Parents” regardless of what you call yourselves now, We need to acknowledge the TRUTH have a true discussion and heal ourselves and learn from the past and move forward with a Loving, Abundant Future tapping into our Unique Life’s purpose and journey to contribute to make ‘Mother Earth” a better place… No one should be hungry,malnuriushed, homeless, etc..
while others have more than they need or even use

Alecia Velma Jackson

I have been listening to her and reading her for years I so agree with her. We are in the time for Great Humanitarian Change NOW… Forgive ourselves and each other because we all Karmically created this present state and we ALL have the ability to change it…

Consuela J

Loveeeeeeeeeeeeeee it

Kevin Miles

Wow! Awesome

Tina R Stewart

Amazing… Absolutely amazing. She made me cry… At work… And I don’t cry. Well, sometimes, if I’ve had too many drinks, but this was at work. Turned the video off halfway thru and walked outside to recoup… Things looked different for a while…??

Expressa Incognita

Marianne is absolutely accurate about age and how you must do what you honestly feel. I am 53 years old this year and this entire campaign with moving change and stopping many of the corruptiont today is very passionate for me. I talked to my neighbor that is 82 years old and how the Depression Era brought back memories of starvation and no jobs. To think a woman like her can witness two folded of corruption and still we stand with the same consquences. So, I think it is now time for all Americans to take on a personal commitment… Read more »

Maria Merino

Dear Brian,

I first saw Marianne Williamson on Charlie Rose back in the early 90’s after she published her book “Return to Love”. I was in my 20’s and remember thinking, “who is this amazing person speaking?”. I became a huge fan of the Charlie Rose Show and of Marianne Williamson. She was an inspiration then and continues to be so today. Her ideas are thought provoking and speak to the heart and soul. Great interview! Look forward to following your work.



Oscar Guallpa

Hey Brian, this was a very deep video man. I think they did a study about a group of apes that live on the islands of Japan. A colony of the same species on one of the islands learned to use tools and you would think this did not have an effect on other island inhabited apes of species but it did! We are one!

Lucky Jide Salu

The intro is so captivating …I can’t wait to watch and listen….I know this will be one beneficial episode to my soul. Will be back with my comments.

Kabi Rai

if only people like her was a dictator running the world

Maria Lupu

A beautiful Woman and Human ! Her beauty it comes out from her inside :the love for people! Indeed we are All One and we must sang the song we come here to sing !Empowering interview ,watching 2Real honest humans! Congrats !

Dinesh Roka

Thank you Brian and London real for such a meaningful and thought provoking conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed it and is by far one of the best and most powerful interviews. Look forward to more interviews like these

Paweł Piotr Jabłoński

Thank you Brian for possibility to watch your talk with Marianne.


Wish this speech had a 1.5X or 2X speed control like youtube 🙁 kinda slow pace at 44:00. Sorry – staying optimal, “Build the Best You” and following Dan Panya’s rule for education. “If it must be done, it should be done quickly.” -Also Great interview, “Failure is a resource.” its great to learn from others failures. 🙂 I think Jack C. Bogle CEO of Vanguard also mentioned that he couldn’t do all the failures by himself alone in one lifetime. Glad there is value in learning from others experiences. Its great knowing what not to do, and leapfrog ideas,… Read more »

Brendan McGoo

Brian crushing hard at the end there… also great interview!

Thomas Debney

Spiritual this…meta physical that…soul incarnation t’other… A healthy dose of ‘reality’ from Jacque Fresco is what this woman’s spiritual meta physical incarnation could do with. Fuzzy and warm indeed!

John Robinson

I thought Brian asked some excellent questions that provided a good opportunity for some real insights. Pity that those questions were almost answered. Just so many generalized statements with redefined words. Why? Fuzzy and warm; meaningless. If i redefine “wrong” to mean right, then Im always right. Wtf! And whilst disagreeing with general statements is hard (we all want “world peace”) it doesnt mean that because of lack non-agreement, there is an agreement. This is critical as the center piece of Marianne’s thesis is that agreements are the most powerful of forces. But, specific cases were disastrous. Take for example… Read more »

Erin Lawlor

Very interesting interview from a very interesting lady. Marianne makes some excellent points about how to live our best lives. But to be kind, I will just assume she has not really looked at the results of socialism which is what Bernie Sanders is (by his own words). I agree that in some cases, what passes for capitalism looks very ugly but if you really look at it you’ll see interference or non-enforcement by gov’t is where it has gone awry.

Steve Bivans

Beautiful episode Brian. I really think you would get a lot out of the lectures of Alan Watts. Here’s a short one that speaks to the ‘deepest fear’ that Mariane alluded to. Enjoy!

Matteo Pasquali

Hi Steve, I like to listen to Alan while walking to places, I discovered him not long ago and I find his lectures are worth a lot, sometimes they cast me out of society

Joyce van der Leer

Thank you so much for this interview, so many questions I had for her are answered. She is my great example and inspiration. My compliments for you Brian, it is a honor to see your work! Blessings and Love for the new year everyone!


Shes a delight to listen to and shares a unique perspective. That being said, I think your psychedelic drug talk caught her off guard. I don’t think she knew much about it which was pretty disappointing. I would of loved to hear her dive in within that topic.

Paul Garrett

This is one of your best interviews, Brian! I was truly impressed with the content and the tone of it. Marianne was so peaceful and so REAL. The trailer that followed for Dan Pena, however, was quite the opposite with it’s angry tone. When someone says that they don’t want anyone to love them, I don’t believe it. Love is at the core of a soulful life.

Chip Browne

Dan Pena and Marianne, I believe, are quite the opposite in tone and spirit.



Carolyn Williams

Brian – thank you so much for showing your true sensitive and feminine side in your absolutely brilliant interview with a truly gifted and clever spiritual Marianne. I was nodding energetically, during her story of miracles course and deeply moved when she explained about ‘how we are ready to receive the blessings bestowed upon us (not always with the person or time we expect it!’. All these things made perfect sense to me. So very grateful to you both. Watching just a fraction of your mentor clip, similar to the fearful God father / Alan Sugar approach left me stone… Read more »

Chip Browne

That trailer did the same for me. I ask if someone thought more than 5 seconds in deciding to add that at the end.

Florencia Renedo

Marianne is amazingly inspiring and you, Brian, brought the best out of her -like you do with all your guests. Thank you!

Bart De Bruin

Just hearing she’s responsible for that gem of a quote made me shut the doors/windows and bring out the notepad. Incredible 🙂

Brian Rose

This conversation with Marianne is easily one of my most favourite episodes in London Real history. Please leave your comments on how it made you feel below! Peace.

John Robinson

Hey Brian, I made quite a few notes – there’s quite a bit to be said about this interview. I have 10 pages of thoughts and comments – is that too long to post here – or should that be routed through your editorial team?

Jim D.

You can send it to the editorial team.

Andrew Moss

This was a beautiful interview Brian. Your preparation shone through, and I appreciate the range of being able to carry a conversation with someone of Marianne’s background, to someone like a Dorian Yates… It’s inspiring work that must continue.

Brian – are there people on your ‘wish list’ of interviews that our community could help you connect with? I’m based in Toronto, with a good network of international contacts across elite sport and business. Happy to help if I can.

Ben Wells

This for me is what London Real needs to be a part of >> the spiritual and metaphysical conversation that is modernized so that ‘ordinary’ folk can get involved in the conversation on a level that they understand, and then find their own spiritual pathway that will become part of the collective consciousness and bring about a change of the ‘Whole’ … she is the perfect example and ambassador for this supremely important shift in global ‘Awareness’ … great and I am only half way through! 🙂

Ben Wells

“Meditation is our most important tool that we have for personal & global transformation” – “Modernity is an assault – we have lost perspective” – “Humanity is moving too fast >> we are not thinking deeply…” … great insight and heartwarming to hear 🙂

Eric Boucher

great great interview 🙂 thanks